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Nov. 17, 2024 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:18:42

IS MY WIFE JUST - LAZY?!? Freedomain Call In

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Time	Text
	Hello, sir.
	Hello, hello.
	How's it going?
	It's great to hear you.
	I've been listening to your voice for like 15 years, I think.
	It's quite an experience for me to be entitled.
	Well, I appreciate that.
	I wish, of course, that the circumstances were a little different, but we'll do whatever good we can.
	Do you want to read your email?
	I can put it into Skype if you want.
	How do you want to start?
	Yeah, I think that's a good start.
	I've been with my wife for about 20 years and married for 10 out of that.
	We have a four-year-old son, but the last two years of our marriage has been a continuous downslope and it came to a crash this June.
	I've been working a lot and she felt lonely.
	I think we had an unfortunate relationship dynamic where if I was trying to get closer, she was pushing me away and that made me try less.
	She started doing parkour, which is a form of rerunning and jumping around.
	She's been doing that for about three years and I wasn't really happy about that.
	I think it's rather risky and if she wants to stay fit, she can do less risky stuff and stuff that's easier to arrange so she doesn't have to travel that much.
	If she needs company, again, she could satisfy that elsewhere.
	And now she ended up breaking her arm doing parkour, I think two years ago.
	And that was a big downside in her relationship.
	This spring, she got close with another guy, also at parkour.
	And it was at first a friendship, and eventually they fell in love with each other.
	And she was not very upfront about it at first, at least the way I thought.
	But she eventually told me about it.
	She also said that she's sorry about that.
	They only talked and hugged each other.
	And other than that, nothing happened.
	But she's very much in love with this other guy.
	She has the butterfly effect.
	Right now, we are going to marriage therapy and trying to fix this.
	She has also been going to therapy on her own.
	And another thing that I added is that I'm the sole breadwinner in the relationship.
	I think we have an above average financial situation, a nice place where we live.
	We travel around each year doing extreme sports.
	But the finances has been an ongoing issue between us for many years.
	I'll talk about this later.
	And personally, I think I made a lot of mistakes in a relationship and I want to fix it, but I feel lost and I could use your help.
	An insight.
	Yeah, I'm sorry to hear about all of this, of course.
	I mean, obviously for you guys, in particular, for the kids.
	So, yeah, I mean, that's the intro, and I'm here to hear more.
	So, I've been thinking about what I wrote a couple of days ago, and I think what's crucial and is missing is I have, like, a Difficulty expressing my feelings.
	I think that's one of the key points where basically our relationship went down a bit because I don't speak a lot about what I feel and how I feel and most of the guys, my friends,
	I have a lot of kind of loose friends who are considered like people who are preferred to talk to but I rarely talk about Super deep emotional stuff that's going inside me.
	And I have a difficulty with that.
	And I also have this difficulty with my wife and she was basically trying it, finding it difficult to figure out what's going inside me.
	And I think that's part of the reasons why we started talking less.
	And yeah, I mean, part of it I think comes from my father who also had Who also has like a similar...
	I don't know what to call it.
	I wanted to say personality flaw, but it might be something different.
	But I'm seeing a similar pattern.
	And basically my wife told me also that she's seeing a similar pattern.
	The way my father behaves, the way I behave is...
	It's something that she doesn't like, especially regarding this, that I don't talk much about what's going inside me, but it doesn't mean there's nothing.
	It just means that I kind of bury this stuff.
	When it comes to expressing joy, for instance, she's more of this...
	Enjoying the moment type of girl which personally I like very much that she can express how she feels and sometimes I feel it I find it a bit all over the place but I enjoy it but even minor stuff like if I have a nice meal in the evening she cooks it for me even if I enjoy it very much she always tells me that I don't look I appreciate it enough so she feels that I
	cannot really express what's going inside me and if I liked it or not.
	And that kind of makes her sad because she doesn't know if I like it, if I don't like it, or if I just don't care.
	And I think that was one of the main issues of this whole situation, how this love situation evolved is because She's been texting with a lot of people because basically she's a teacher and once we had the child I kind of asked her to
	stay home so basically we don't have to do daycare.
	Luckily or thanks to my previous work I'm in a good enough financial situation so we don't have to She doesn't have to work basically and I asked her to stay home with the kid but she had a very social life before the kid and for the first two years I think it was working better but the last two years it was more difficult and
	she was She felt locked inside the house too much.
	So she was missing a lot of adult connections where she can talk with various people, socialize basically.
	And I was working a lot during this time.
	So what she started doing was talking to a lot of different people.
	She went to dance classes and then later to this parkour class or it's more like a gym anyway.
	And what she was telling me is that I don't talk to her enough and she feels lonely.
	She's basically isolated and she started chatting with other people.
	And at first I wasn't really...
	How to say...
	I obviously noticed it, but I wasn't super...
	I was kind of happy for it to be honest because she was like she found people she can hang around with others or at least talk to them if she wants to so she started establishing her social base but then it kind of increased in volume basically by a lot and I think earlier this year we had a lot of we had quite a few nights where she was Texting
	on her phone.
	I was working on my computer, which is in a different room.
	And when I stopped working and I went to bed, she was still texting on her phone.
	And she kind of felt that, why don't I bother to talk to her?
	But then when she told me this, I immediately wanted to fix the problem and basically say that, okay, yeah, sure, I'm sorry, and let's talk about it.
	But then she was a little bit pissed basically not pissed but she wasn't happy that I only tried because she's saying I should be with her because if that's the case then it feels as if I don't want it on my own and to be honest this made me a bit more hesitant trying to talk to her and Fix
	the whole thing.
	Because on the other side, I was also feeling a bit that she was neglecting what I wanted, basically, which is fixing minor stuff and basically doing less.
	Sorry, do you mean by fixing minor stuff?
	Helping more with housekeeping and general issues around the house or Making life here more comfortable.
	And basically, when I came home, that was last year, a lot of my time went with doing house chores because I wanted to help her.
	I felt she was kind of fed up with doing all the house chores on her own, being like this traditional or old-school housewife who takes care of the whole place.
	And I wanted to help her.
	I didn't want her life to be about cooking or doing the dishes or cleaning or anything like that.
	So when I came home, I tried to help her doing all these kind of tedious tasks.
	And this kind of...
	Went on for a while.
	Sorry, but, I mean, you have a big house and all of that, so how does the housework get done as a whole?
	Well, we have a housemaid, a cleaning lady, basically.
	She comes every two weeks, and she's doing like a...
	Oh, no, but that's...
	I mean, that's good for the big house clean, but what about just in general?
	Day-to-day, laundry, dishes, cooking.
	She does that stuff, right?
	We do that mixed, basically.
	She does most of the breakfast.
	I mean, I do it and also she does it.
	So basically, I prefer cooking.
	I mean, you work in 10-12 hours a day, aren't you?
	Yeah.
	I'm not sure why you would be doing half the work at home and all the work for the income.
	Yeah, I mean, that's one of the issues that I find difficult to talk about.
	Why is that difficult to talk about?
	Because she'll get mad?
	Yeah, in a way.
	Well, that's easy.
	Then, I mean, if she wants you to do half the housework, then she can go and contribute half the income.
	Yeah, but that's something that I don't necessarily want.
	No, I know.
	I'm not saying you want that.
	I'm just saying, but logically, that would be the case, right?
	Yeah.
	And that's how reality works, right?
	I mean, if you want to do less work in one area, then you kind of, I mean, you have to, otherwise you're exploiting someone, right?
	That's how I felt sometimes.
	You know, if you and I are going on a road trip, and I don't want to do any of the driving, I at least have to pay for the meals, don't I? Yes.
	Okay.
	So, I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you.
	I just wanted to make sure I understood that general approach or thought or where you were with that stuff.
	So, my apologies.
	Please continue.
	So, in general, my personality is at least what I could figure out on my own is that I have this tendency of taking a lot of burden on myself.
	I mean, that's usually how I work.
	And so I saw this issue of she's not happy with whatever we have to do on a regular basis.
	You're a problem solver at work, and so when your wife gives you a problem, you, you know, in good conscience, try to solve it, right?
	Yes.
	That makes sense to me.
	But you don't ask whether the problem is valid.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Or what the true source of the problem is.
	Well, or whether it's a real problem or whether it's just a complaint.
	I mean, I'm sure you've had customers over the course of your business career who just complain.
	Yeah.
	And the reason they complain is they want free stuff, right?
	Yes.
	I mean, your wife says that you don't show her enough appreciation for her cooking, okay?
	But does she thank you every day for going to work and making the, you know, six figures plus that keeps you guys in such an opulent lifestyle?
	When was the last time she showed appreciation to you for paying all the bills?
	Well, she did a few times, but not very often.
	Sorry, a few times.
	Over what time period?
	I don't know.
	Yes, you do.
	Come on.
	Fess up, brother.
	How many times?
	Well, you say a few times.
	A week, a day, a month, a year, a decade.
	How often do you thank you so much for getting up and going to work and paying the bills and providing us this wonderful lifestyle and giving me all of this luxury and opportunity?
	How many times?
	Well, not that many.
	Maybe five times in ten years.
	Okay, so if you were to say to her, I will appreciate your cooking once every two years, would she be satisfied with that?
	Probably not.
	Well, no, of course not, right?
	Yes.
	She would be unhappy with that.
	So, it's odd.
	If she wants appreciation, that's fine.
	But if she doesn't want to show appreciation, that shows a lack of empathy, doesn't it?
	Well, she kept telling me that she doesn't need all this.
	So, we could have a quieter life where we don't have this much and maybe work less.
	So, we don't have to do this much.
	Oh, so she wants less money.
	She would be more...
	Yeah, she...
	Basically, she told me that she could easily live without all this...
	I mean, not that we are super rich or something, but we have a definitely...
	Sounds up in the class, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	and what does she want to give up?
	I mean, that's the thing is that we never really talked about specifics.
	Like, At some point she mentioned to me that we don't even need a car, which is something I find totally unrealistic because obviously we have to drive the kid around, we have to do shopping, we do trips and whatnot.
	So today living without a car is quite a difficult thing to manage.
	And what about giving up the maid so that she could do more cleaning?
	Yeah.
	Would she want to do that?
	No, I don't think so.
	Okay, so what is it?
	So saying you want less is fine, but at some point you have to actually decide what you want less of, right?
	Would she want a smaller house?
	I think she could live with that, but to be honest, I think we have such an amazing home, I could hardly imagine living it elsewhere.
	And also, our kid loves it, and She put a lot of effort and energy into making this home the way it is because I kind of helped with obviously financing it and also doing the major construction works, but she was the one who kind of Did the final touches.
	Oh yeah, no, they're fantastic that way, in my opinion.
	Stuff I would never even think of.
	This is nice.
	This is nice.
	So good for her for that.
	I appreciate that, and that's a lovely thing.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I'm sorry, you were still talking, and I absolutely want to hear more, so please go ahead.
	So...
	To be honest, I'm a bit lost with this whole financial situation because I'm not sure if my criticism or the way I think about it is fair because I just kept approaching life in a way that, alright, if If we're partners and she doesn't want to carry this burden, then I'll do it.
	She doesn't have to.
	And I'm fine with that.
	And also, I was thinking about maybe figuring out stuff in different ways that will reduce the burden on her.
	So, this is one issue that I have.
	And I think it's not really...
	Open between us, to be honest, because I was trying to put everything out in the recent couple of months, so we have long open conversations about what we do, what we did, and what we think right now.
	So basically sharing feelings more.
	I put a lot of emphasis on trying to share my feelings, which obviously is kind of difficult in this situation.
	But this thing is still a bit Bit of a mess.
	The way I usually approach a topic like this, I'm kind of analytical and I start to build stuff from the very foundations.
	Obviously, that's why I like your show as well.
	And I find it difficult to talk finances, money, economics, whatever, with others who have a hazy or limited Knowledge about the basics.
	If there's stuff she wants you to talk more, does she sort of meet you halfway and say, you talk more and I'll learn more about what you want to talk about?
	Yes, I had this issue.
	I kind of offered her that.
	I'm happy to talk about any kind of financial decisions and involve her in it.
	But I don't want to...
	Be the one who's kind of forcing it on her.
	She has to want it.
	Basically, that's what I told her, that I'm more than happy to involve her in any kind of financial decisions.
	And I'm actually grateful if she joins in, because that means I have less issues to bear.
	I mean, especially stuff regarding investment.
	At some point, we wanted to buy a piece of land to build a little condo or a place where we can go.
	For a vacation or rent out sometimes.
	And we had these ideas.
	We still have, actually.
	And I was happy to talk about it.
	Finances, how we put it together, how to make it work.
	But I don't want to be the one who's pushing it on her because we also had a few issues with this.
	We have another idea, which is the place where I am.
	Education is not the best.
	Well, I guess it's not very good anywhere on the planet.
	And we have this idea of making a private school and doing it on a principled way, educating kids, because she's a teacher.
	And she's a very good teacher, by the way.
	But does she teach?
	Right now, she's giving private English lessons, but not...
	Not full-time.
	Okay, got it.
	How many hours a week does she work?
	Maybe two.
	Okay.
	Two hours a week?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	But she's also attending...
	I mean, she says she's bored, right?
	And she doesn't have enough interaction with adults, so if she's teaching English, why doesn't she work more than two hours a week?
	She's also attending a university where she's doing a course because it's not really because she wanted to, but she kind of had to.
	Because the way regulation works over here is you have to have certain papers to be able to open the school.
	Sorry, that's the teaching English part.
	Yeah.
	Well, yeah, I mean, she wasn't sure she wanted to do that more.
	The private lessons, because she's also doing...
	I mean, people who come to her to study English, they like to talk to her because she's kind of easy to talk to her.
	She listens and she's also doing kind of...
	not counseling, or I don't know how to call it, but she's basically having good conversation with people, especially...
	Teenagers who have various issues in their lives.
	So she's connecting with this age group pretty well.
	But it also is a bit of an energy drain on her.
	So that's why she wasn't doing more than two or three hours a week.
	And she wasn't sure this is what she wanted to do.
	So she wasn't advertising herself as an English teacher.
	As a private teacher, basically, because she was not that much into it.
	Sorry, she's not that much into what?
	Into doing private lessons with teenagers or adults, basically.
	So she wasn't really into doing private English courses.
	not courses.
	Basically, these are usually one hour sessions where she's teaching English to to.
	To either young adults or teenagers.
	Got it, okay.
	And sorry, just remind me how she does the therapy stuff, the counseling stuff, or the, I don't know exactly what, coaching stuff?
	What she's doing is, she's doing, I think that's what you call, that's a normal therapy every two weeks.
	And we're also doing a sort of marriage counseling or therapy.
	Every two weeks as well.
	We have been doing that for about two or three months at this point.
	Sorry, I thought she was doing some coaching with her students or something like that.
	Maybe I misunderstood that.
	I think it's my language that was a bit misleading.
	But she also wants to do that.
	She wants to be a coach.
	I think she would be actually a pretty good one.
	But it's currently just a plan.
	Because I think That's my other issue.
	I find it difficult to figure out what she wants to do, because there are a lot of stuff that she wants to do, there are a lot of stuff that she doesn't want to do, and I'm not sure at this point what her plan is regarding this.
	Why only one child?
	Yeah, basically...
	Why 20 years, right?
	And only one child?
	Criticism could be lots of medical reasons, I'm just curious.
	Well, we kind of started dating very early.
	She was about 16, I was 20.
	So that was 20 years ago.
	And the first part of our relationship was pretty hectic.
	Basically, the way we came together...
	I was traveling a lot.
	And when I was traveling after doing my secondary school, I was abroad, and there was this very sad accident that happened.
	A very good friend of mine died in a car crash, and it was a mutual friend of ours.
	I was living in London at that time, and I came back home.
	That's when we started seeing each other.
	That was a bit of an issue, how we...
	Started dating, on my end at least, because she is basically the sister of a very good friend of mine.
	So I was basically having a good time with her brother, and then eventually we started seeing each other.
	We talked a lot because of our mutual loss, and we started dating.
	And then it turned into our relationship.
	But I had...
	I made a lot of...
	You started dating at 16.
	When she was 16 and you were 20, but you knew her before that because she was the sister of your friend?
	Yes, I knew her a little bit for about one or two years.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Yes.
	And...
	I was just very kind of shy and introverted.
	Sorry, and I apologize for that.
	Just interrupting, I just wanted to understand, because I'm always kind of curious about this.
	Like, how is it that people end up being able to travel?
	Because travel is pretty expensive, right?
	Travel living in other places.
	So how is it that you were able to, at 20, after post-secondary, you said, how is it that you were?
	Were you working traveling?
	Were you, you know, for attractive women, you know, the sinister meme is, you know, this is how they travel.
	It's basically trading sex.
	Maybe you were good-looking enough for that, but.
	How did you pay for all this travel?
	So basically, when I finished my secondary school, I applied for a job.
	Back then, there was this option to apply for a so-called student visa to work in London, and that's what I did, where I was learning English, and it allowed me to work part-time.
	So I could basically Do a part-time job and learn English.
	But besides that, my parents are also kind of upper middle class.
	And my father was kind of generous enough that he paid for...
	Okay, you can start with that.
	Yeah, I mean, but it helped a lot.
	So he paid for what?
	He paid for the first...
	Part of me moving into London.
	So basically, he gave me money, which was good enough to cover my flight costs and also to find a place.
	And after that...
	So how much did he give you?
	About two or three times the average salary at that time.
	Sorry, he gave you four or three times the average salary?
	That was a one-time sum.
	That was just a one-time sum, just to make sure that I... Tens of thousands of euros, 100,000 euros, 50...
	No, no, no, no, no, no, not that much.
	It was...
	Back then, I think it was maybe 5,000 or 7,000 euros.
	Okay.
	So, I mean, that answers my question as to how you were able to do that.
	I'm not saying you didn't work, of course, right?
	But without that, you wouldn't have been able to do it, right?
	And it's not a criticism.
	I'm always just kind of curious, like how, hey, I went traveling.
	I'm like, but how?
	I would have loved to have gone traveling, but I had to work for 60 hours a week.
	So, anyway, go on.
	There are other people who do it without...
	I mean, they did it back then.
	It was possible.
	It was a lot more difficult, but it was possible.
	I understand that, but I never know whether they're telling the truth.
	People are like, oh, I did it all on my own.
	It turns out it's like, well, you know, but I did have a credit card for emergencies.
	You know, like there's always something where, you know, or it's a pretty girl basically traveling around romantically or whatever.
	And I'm not saying it's impossible, right?
	I've traveled You know, where, you know, I've traveled throughout Belize and Mexico and Guatemala where it was like 10 bucks a night for a flop house.
	So I get that.
	I get that.
	It's just...
	It's not common for sure, and by far the most common thing is parents.
	And listen, I'm not, hey, good for you.
	I mean, glad you had that experience.
	I just always have this kind of curiosity about it.
	It doesn't diminish anything you did, but it's, I mean, heavily subsidized, which is not bad.
	I'm just curious about that kind of stuff.
	Okay.
	Alright, so you were, sorry, and I apologize because I interrupted you for my own personal agenda.
	Sorry about that.
	No worries.
	When you were talking about being shy and withdrawn at that age.
	Yes.
	Basically, I had one girlfriend before, my wife.
	And that was kind of a similar situation where I was super shy and into myself.
	And she kind of...
	Pushed herself and me in a little bit, so she kind of picked me up.
	Oh, the 16-year-old girl?
	No, no, no.
	Oh, the other girlfriend before.
	Sorry about that.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	And I kind of couldn't really handle the situation at first.
	I obviously enjoyed that there was this girl chasing after me, but I didn't really enjoy the time with her, and I was kind of Mixed in my head of what's going on.
	I had this feeling of...
	Sorry, how old was the girl?
	And why do you think she was chasing you?
	And I'm not saying you're not worthy of chasing.
	I'm just curious what the reasons were for you.
	I was about 17 or 18.
	And she was, I think, a year older than me.
	And we were kind of friends at first.
	So this was the friend zone.
	And then, yeah, it kind of turned into...
	This romance where she was kind of pushing a bit more.
	And I kind of enjoyed it.
	I mean, I had a weird relationship with girls.
	I wasn't this pick-up artist or a guy who usually gets the girls in the clubs.
	I was usually the guy who is quiet and doesn't talk much.
	And to me, it was appealing that somebody came to me and...
	Okay, would you say that as a young man you were good-looking?
	I find it difficult to judge, but yeah, in general, yeah, I would say...
	Okay, so were you athletic?
	Yes.
	Okay, so you're a good-looking, athletic young man from a wealthy family, and you're like curious as to why these girls might be chasing you?
	Yeah.
	Am I missing something?
	I mean, it's a little obvious, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	I mean, but back then, to me, it wasn't… I mean, right now you're saying… And you have generous parents who will forward you, you know, 6,000, 7,000 euros to go travel.
	It would be the equivalent, probably, I'm thinking of about $25,000, $30,000.
	Oh no, this would be a fair time ago.
	So this would be like somebody handing me $30,000 or something like that, probably in today's money, or $35,000 Canadian dollars to get my start in travel, right?
	Which would keep you traveling for quite a long time.
	Yes.
	So, you have generous, concerned parents with a lot of money, and you are athletic and good-looking, and the shy thing works for a lot of girls.
	So, I'm not saying you did it as a move or anything, but it does, nonetheless.
	Yeah, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure why it was like that.
	I know that...
	Why what was like what?
	It's a very ambiguous statement, brother.
	I'm sorry.
	Why...
	Why I couldn't really understand my sexual market value, so basically where I couldn't...
	Well, no, because your parents hadn't prepared you for that.
	Right?
	I mean, your parents didn't say to you, look, you know, you're a good-looking kid, and, you know, obviously we're wealthy, and there are a lot of girls who are looking to settle down with...
	You know, a nice guy, and so you're going to have to keep your wits about you.
	Some women might be more interested in you for the money.
	And, you know, it's the same conversation that dads need to have with good-looking daughters, right?
	Which is, you know, there's going to be some guys who are going to be interested in you primarily for your looks, and you're going to have to figure out a way to sort that out because that's not a great way to found a marriage.
	You know, that kind of stuff, right?
	Yeah, well, it never happened.
	So your parents didn't talk to you.
	And sorry, this is an old aristocratic thing as well, which is that if you have family wealth, and I'm not saying, you know, you're the Rockefellers or anything, but if you have family wealth, then you need to talk to your children to make sure that they don't end up with people who might pillage that family wealth, who might be in it for the money, right?
	Yeah.
	Well, I mean, my father is nothing like that.
	He made a lot of money throughout his years.
	He still actually works and has a very, very good income.
	But he never really cared about keeping it.
	So right now, it's me who is handling the family portfolio.
	So I was actually the one who said, right, enough is enough, because they are spending a lot of money on stuff that I think is not really necessary.
	And I don't Obviously, it's their money, so whatever, but I don't want them to just buy.
	No, as a parent, it's not just your money.
	It's not just your money because you have a legacy, right?
	I mean, if you can build the kind of wealth that can give your kids more options and choices, that's a positive thing, right?
	Yes.
	So, it's not just their money.
	And the reason being that you sacrifice some part of your children's childhood in order to make that money.
	So, your children, in a sense, pay for the money by having less access to their parents, which is not a bad thing.
	I mean, because they've got to grow up knowing what it's like to work.
	But it's not just your money, because it's family money, right?
	And it changes your kids' lives enormously if you have some money.
	I mean, the younger kids can't really afford even condos, let alone houses.
	But if you have some money, maybe you can help them out a bit.
	And that can get their start in life.
	It matters how quickly they can have children or how slowly.
	Or it matters who might be attracted to them.
	It gives them a sense of confidence.
	They have a soft place to land.
	There's a cushion.
	But at the same time, it can also be demotivating because maybe they don't feel like all those Instagram kids who just show pictures of them flying off to Dubai and stuff.
	It's kind of demotivating to hard work.
	And so it's a complicated legacy, but it's not just the parents' money.
	It is if you don't have kids.
	But once you have kids, it's the family money.
	And so it has such a profound effect on your children, both potentially very positive and potentially very negative, that it's not independent of.
	It's sort of like saying, well, I can choose to smoke because they're my lungs.
	And it's like, okay, if I live alone, I suppose I can.
	If I live with a woman who doesn't smoke, then it affects her.
	And I don't have the choice to inflict that on my kids.
	And to me, it's the same thing with finances.
	Oh, it's just my lungs.
	It's like, no, no, it's a big effect on the family and could be the case, if sensibly managed, for generations, right?
	Yes, I agree.
	So, sorry for that tiny lecture, but...
	So, tell me a little bit about your father's connection with you, and also tell me, I have a guess in my mind and heart, that your mother is very pretty, or was when she was younger.
	She wasn't super pretty.
	My father had two marriages, so basically, he came from a pretty poor village, and he Was one of the first from his generation who went to a university and he had higher education and he had a very good job at an early age, but his first marriage didn't work out, basically.
	What happened in his first marriage...
	Actually, it's interesting.
	I just recently talked about this with him because my wife kept telling me that it's so weird that I know I don't know what really happened with my father and his first marriage and I think she was perfectly right about that.
	I had this conversation with my father recently and he told me that he was basically as a young country boy living in the city he had no money and he had some income and he had a girl who was interested in her But he didn't really...
	He wasn't really in love.
	He had a girl who was interested in her.
	You mean he was interested in him?
	I'm sorry.
	It was my mistake.
	So basically, there was this girl who was interested in my father, and my father wasn't in love with this girl, but he was thinking about just settling down, and it seemed like a good opportunity.
	And the two of them got married because...
	It also helped them with getting finances for, I think, a flat or a home, basically.
	So in this way, he was basically trying to get a place where they could live.
	And then he was thinking ahead that they will figure out the living together and the relationship part later.
	But what my father told me that his first five became An alcoholic and they had a very bad relationship after a few years.
	That's what he told me that she wasn't, but towards the end of their marriage, they were married for six years.
	She drunk more and more and then eventually they divorced.
	Sorry, just so I understand this, did he have any children from that first marriage?
	No.
	Okay.
	And did his wife work?
	I don't know, Dad.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Right, because women are designed to have a conveyor belt to kids, right?
	Yes.
	And, you know, sort of in the modern world, we don't give them that.
	We give them maids and maybe one kid, and they get bored.
	I mean, if you had to swap your life with your wife's life, how would you feel?
	It's difficult to imagine.
	You know her life very, very well.
	So you wake up in the morning, you've got a little bit of stuff to do here and there.
	Your kid goes off to school, you've got six or seven hours.
	What are you doing?
	No work.
	Yeah, I would be bored, to be honest.
	Right.
	And when people are bored, what do they do?
	Yeah, start doing whatever makes them feel good.
	I mean, particularly women as a whole, right?
	So that's why I was kind of asking about...
	Your father and his wife, did she start drinking because she was bored?
	Could be, but I don't know.
	Okay, so, sorry, go ahead.
	And then my father divorced his first wife, and then very, I mean, he was a bit nervous because of his age.
	Back then he was 38, and he He had this alarm of, all right, I have to settle down and have a family, otherwise I might get too old.
	And I think a year or two later… Sorry, I apologize.
	So he didn't get married to his first wife until he was in his 30s?
	Were they together for six years?
	Yes, I think so.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So what did he do before that?
	Man has needs, right?
	He was working.
	Yeah, you mean girl?
	I don't know.
	I have no information.
	We never talked about that.
	But did he have girlfriend before he got married?
	Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure he had.
	But I don't know.
	Okay.
	And then after they divorced, he met my mother, I think, two years later.
	And they dated for a half a year and then they married.
	I have a younger brother who's about a year and a half older than me.
	He was born...
	What's the age difference if there is one between your mother and your father?
	10 years.
	10 years?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So yeah, after they got...
	I'm sorry.
	I mean, the proportion is actually quite similar between you in terms of percentage, right?
	40 to 30 ain't that different from 20 to 16, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, if you consider...
	Just the ratio.
	It's a quarter and a fifth or something like that.
	Okay, so...
	Why did your father...
	What about your father did he fall in love with regarding your mother?
	What did he love about her?
	Or does he?
	It's interesting because my father never talked about that.
	What he mentioned a couple of times, he rarely ever talks about this or his feelings.
	What he mentioned was a bit scary to me because what he mentioned was that he just wanted to basically have a family and it sounded as if my mother was just a vessel for that.
	Why is that scary?
	Because I thought that...
	I'm not disagreeing with you.
	I just want to make sure I understand why.
	I thought that they should have...
	I mean, he should have chosen her partner or his partner better based on basically why they should have a good relationship first.
	Okay, so on what standards?
	And again, I'm not disagreeing with you.
	I just want to make sure I understand your thinking.
	What standards does your father have used to choose his wife?
	I think one of them was that she was also kind of old and not married, which was kind of rarer at that time.
	Yes, my mom was 30 when...
	No, she was, I think, 28 when they got married.
	But back then, obviously, that was a pretty late age.
	Okay.
	And my brother, when my brother was born, she was maybe 29-ish or something.
	And when I was born, she was in her early 30s, which was ridiculously old back then.
	Okay, so your father was in his late 30s and your mother was in her late 20s?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And do you know anything about your mother's life before your father chose her?
	No.
	Really?
	Like what she did with her teens and 20s?
	I mean, I know her studies and where she grew up in the city, but not like relationships or friends.
	I know what she did.
	When I was growing up, they talked a lot about professional stuff, like They have a lot of common colleagues and people they know, and they talked about them, but never really talked about any kind of relationship.
	Sorry, did she work in her 20s?
	Yes.
	Okay, and what does she work in?
	She was a bookkeeper.
	I mean, back then, it was a socialist place here, so it was a bit different.
	what you might expect so these big corporate it was not like a corporation these were like institutions which were owned by the central government but operated by peoples locally obviously you cannot centrally command or operate everything so these were local not businesses but basically institutions and then she was doing bookkeeping and uh And like financial
	consulting for them.
	Right.
	How to make the books and stuff.
	Okay.
	They had a very good time.
	I mean, she had a very good time because she has an easygoing personality.
	And yeah, she was more like helping these businesses and these...
	Not businesses, but I keep using this word anyway.
	Anyway, so she was helping these institutions like farms or...
	Yeah, mostly farms, cattle farms.
	And they gave her a lot of free stuff and parties.
	It was a good time for them.
	And that's, through one of these parties, they met with my father.
	Okay.
	So, your father had a bigger career, I assume, than your mother?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	That's correct.
	So, a man in his late 30s, what would he want with a woman?
	In her late twenties.
	Kids, obviously.
	Yeah, so he chooses her, and there's nothing wrong with this.
	This is the basic transaction that we're all here for, right?
	I mean, men have an excess of resources, and they need women to have kids.
	So they provide their excess resources to women who have an excess of fertility, in a sense, Relative to the man who can't have kids on her own, right?
	So she can't have kids without his resources.
	He can't have kids without her womb.
	So he trades his resources for her womb.
	And, you know, I know this sounds all kind of cold and livestocky and calculated, but it is why we're all here.
	It wasn't like every human being for the past couple of million years got together entirely based on platonic virtues, right?
	Yes.
	So he got together with your mom.
	To have a family.
	Because, you know, when a man gets into his 30s, he, especially if he's made some money, he starts thinking about his legacy, right?
	What's all this money for?
	Well, the money is for...
	Why are men so productive?
	The money is for a family.
	That's what it's for.
	That's why we make money, right?
	There's only so many comforts you can have, or as Napoleon said, like, you can only eat one excellent meal at dinner, and it can only cost so much, so...
	So your father traded his excess resources for a woman's fertility.
	And of course, I'm not saying your parents didn't have virtues together and all of that, but I mean, that's the basic transaction, because if your mother was a male, he wouldn't have transferred all these resources to her, right?
	Yes.
	I mean, well, you know, some guy in his late 30s is not going to start becoming best buds with some guy in his late 20s, because, you know, there's too much difference life experience and so on, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Unless it's a mentor situation, in which case his goal is to transfer not just resources, but wisdom or something like that, right?
	Okay, so...
	And your mother's easygoing, right?
	Or what?
	Yes, I mean, she still kind of is, but when I was growing up, especially when I started dating and looking at girls, so basically after 10, Or something like that.
	So when I went into puberty and then into my teenage years, it was a super weird experience for me and also for my brother.
	And between our mothers, basically.
	So me and my brother had this weird relationship with our mothers because she was very...
	That's plural?
	I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	Okay, I just wasn't sure if there was a stepmom in there or something.
	No, no, no, no.
	I didn't think so, but I just wanted to check.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I'm sorry about that.
	Listen, that's totally fine.
	I can't tell you how much I respect people who speak a second language, so I have no issues whatsoever.
	You have my deep admiration because I can't do it to save my life.
	I know 19 computer languages and not one decent second language.
	So, sorry, go ahead.
	Anyway, so our mother made us a really difficult or hard time when we started dating because she tried to push away all the girlfriends that we took home.
	I didn't have that many, basically.
	I slept with one girl and I had, I think, two or three girlfriends altogether.
	Not even girlfriends, just girls who I took home.
	Maybe two or three.
	And then the same number with my brother.
	But yeah, her mother was very difficult when it came to this.
	So she was kind of almost mean to these girls.
	She kept asking stuff like, Hey, why are you here again?
	So very, very rude stuff.
	And obviously… Well, hang on, hang on.
	So I don't know about the rude thing.
	I mean, you could be right, of course.
	You know the situation infinitely better.
	But that's kind of a judgment or a conclusion.
	And if your judgments and conclusions were correct, you wouldn't be calling me.
	Yes.
	So, you know, and if it's any consolation, I do this with myself as well.
	So she would say sort of, why are you here?
	She'd be a little negative or hostile towards the girls you brought home?
	Yes.
	And let's throw aside the rudeness thing, which again, you could be right about, but why do you think she did that?
	I'm not sure, but I suppose that she was very sad with her relationship with my father, and she was kind of Afraid that she will lose us, basically.
	We would be just with other girls, and I think she was not ready to let us go.
	that's my assumption how well would you say you understand women you How much just seems incomprehensible to you?
	A lot.
	Okay.
	I was just wondering if we had the same evaluation of that.
	Okay.
	So, you could be right about all of this, I don't know, but what was going on with her relationship with your father?
	You said she was very unhappy, right?
	She never liked that my father was a bit cold, and my father...
	Sorry, what do you mean she never liked?
	I mean, she married two kids with him.
	She must have liked it at some point.
	I mean, my father for sure, but not this kind of personality type, or maybe not type, but this aspect of him.
	I mean, if I spend 10 years looking for just the right car, and then I finally buy the car and bring it home, is it fair for me to say I don't like the car?
	Yeah, you're right.
	But what I tried to say was that She didn't like this aspect of him.
	Well, but she married him and she had children with him.
	Yes.
	And you said she was fairly attractive, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, so she didn't have some weird thing wrong with her that completely crushed her options, right?
	That's correct.
	Okay.
	So she's an attractive young woman.
	She's easygoing, pleasant, and so on, right?
	And she's, I guess, got a job, so she's got some basic competence.
	She can learn bookkeeping and do that job and all of that, right?
	Yes.
	So she had options.
	So she was probably holding out for a guy who made more money.
	I don't know.
	Obviously, I'm just guessing, right?
	And then when she met the guy who made more money...
	Then she got to bypass the struggle phase, right?
	So you said your father was from a poor village.
	He was totally a self-made man, right?
	Yes.
	So his struggle phase, and I mean, I know this very well, the struggle phase is you come from nothing and you try to make something of yourself, right?
	Yes.
	Now, by the time your father was in his late 30s, He'd already made something of himself.
	Yes.
	And so she wasn't around for the 20 years of his struggle phase where he, you know, listen, if you come from nothing and you're trying to make something of yourself, it's really hard.
	You don't know what to say.
	You might have a weird accent.
	You don't know what to do.
	You don't know the social niceties.
	It's like moving to Japan, going from poor to upper middle class.
	It's like moving to Japan.
	You don't know why any of the rituals are.
	Where do you put your shoes?
	Why is everyone sitting on the floor?
	Like, wealthy people, or, you know, at least upper middle class people will say wealthy people, they have all of their own ways of doing things, and they're very good at scanning for the nouveau riche, the new rich, right?
	And so it's hard to go...
	From nothing to something.
	And it's a big struggle and it takes a lot of concentration, a lot of effort.
	You feel a lot of insecurity and you have to really will yourself forward sometimes when it just feels like you're saying everything wrong or doing everything wrong or whatever, right?
	So, I mean, I remember being in one of my first business presentations at a big bank.
	I finished doing the presentation up at the projector.
	I had no idea whether to sit down or not.
	I had no idea.
	Do I just stand up there?
	Or do I sit down?
	And finally, you know, my business partner wrote a note, pushed it across to me and said, sit down!
	I didn't know whether I'm supposed to sit down or not.
	It's just silly things like that, right?
	But they're all over the place.
	Especially if you grow up without a father.
	So...
	So your father had already passed his struggle phase.
	So for a woman, if she waits, right, this is the edge game that women play, right, these days, is that the longer she waits, the more likely she is to know for certain the man can make money.
	And the older man she chooses, like if your mom is choosing your dad, she's in her late 20s, he's in his late 30s, if he's broke, he's a loser, right?
	He's not going to make any money.
	If he's made his money, she's already bypassed the struggle phase.
	And she doesn't have to help him through that phase.
	She doesn't have to give him counsel and comfort.
	She doesn't have to encourage him.
	And she knows it succeeds.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So she would have waited until a man was successful and single, right?
	So then the woman has to ask the question, I assume your dad's reasonably attractive too, right?
	Yeah, he was, I mean, obviously.
	Now he's what?
	He's not anymore, I mean, he's an old man now, but he was.
	You can be an old man and still reasonably attractive.
	So, then the woman has to say, well, why is this guy in his 30s, why is he single?
	And so you have to usually recognize that either he's single because he's just the greatest guy in the known universe and nobody else has been able to see his value, or he's got some flaws that make him less attractive to other women, which is why he's not been snapped up, so to speak, if that makes sense.
	I mean, a lot of men are kind of passive in relationships.
	Like if the woman, you know this from the girl who pursued you when she was 18 and you were 17.
	Like it's kind of nice and it's not too bad when the woman does all the work, right?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Thank you.
	So why hasn't some woman snapped him up?
	Well, there's some reason.
	And so she got to bypass the struggle phase, and so there would be less pair bonding, right?
	Because if the man's already achieved his goals, or he's already achieved his wealth, he knows deep down that every woman who wants him wants him because he's passed, to some degree, wants him because he's passed the struggle phase and his income is certain now.
	Does this make sense?
	Yes.
	You know, you get together with some entrepreneur in his early or mid-twenties.
	I mean, he's working 16 hours a day.
	You know, like 80% of businesses fail within the first couple of years.
	I mean, it could be a huge mess.
	You could end up bankrupt or in debt.
	You know, you could end up getting sued by, you know, whatever.
	Like, it could be just a big, horrible mess.
	But your dad's gone through all of that, and he's made his money, and he's comfortable.
	So she gets to pick from guys who've already proven their worth But everything comes with a price.
	And the price is there's less pair bonding.
	There's less pride because she didn't participate in the struggle.
	She's like the lifeguard giving mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to the guy three days after he almost drowned.
	It's like, we don't really need this right now.
	And another one of the problems is that by waiting until the guy's already made his money, she has to accept that there will probably be some personality flaws that were one of the reasons why he was still single and wealthy in his late 30s.
	Does that make sense?
	Yes.
	So for a woman to get all of the benefits of leaping right over the struggle phase of 20 years, right?
	18 to 38.
	20 years that your father was dragging his ass out of poverty.
	First guy to go to college, right?
	First guy to have a professional gig.
	First guy to make some real coin.
	So for 20 years, your dad is dragging his ass out of this bowels of poverty, and then she comes along, and she just, you know, she runs the last five meters of the race and considers herself an Olympian, right?
	And so...
	Then, to complain about the guy, well, he's got these flaws, it's like, well, yes!
	Because if he didn't have these flaws, he would have been married, and you wouldn't be able to access his money.
	He's kind of quirky.
	Yes, that's why he was still on the market.
	Sorry, it's just kind of funny to me that women want to bypass the entire struggle phase and then don't want a guy who's at all quirky.
	Of course, otherwise, if he was a perfect guy, he'd have been married long ago, and he wouldn't be available.
	The only guys who were available in their late 30s are the quirky guys.
	And then, oh, he's just quirky, that's a problem.
	And it's like, yes, but you chose to bypass the struggle phase of 20 years, and there's a price to be paid for that, which is quirkiness.
	I feel quite strongly about this, but anyway, go on.
	Yeah, so, I mean, what happened during our teenage years was kind of this experience that she wasn't really my mother.
	I mean, my mother wasn't really happy about us, me and my brother taking girls home, so we didn't.
	And we also never really talked about what At least back home.
	We never really talked about what the relationship should be.
	I'm so sorry to interrupt you again, because I now remember why I went on that rant.
	It's coming back to me, and I'll keep going.
	So, your mother is old school, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So, old school, in the old world, in the old sort of, you know, old world, did mother-in-laws have a lot of power?
	Yeah, I suppose.
	Yes, they did, right?
	They kind of ran the roost.
	They ran the nest, right?
	And we can say good or bad, right or wrong, but, you know, it certainly is, as they say, what it is, right?
	So your mother would have been dominant with your girlfriends to establish her dominance in case you married her, married the girlfriend, right?
	She would be establishing her dominance, that she's in charge, that they have to please her, and they can marry the kids, but they can marry her sons, but the condition is that they bow down to her.
	That's usually kind of the old-school stuff with mothers-in-law.
	Does this make any sense?
	Yes.
	Right.
	So you're like, oh, but she didn't want us to go and blah, blah, blah.
	Maybe there's a part of that.
	But in general, your mother would have faced some social criticism if her kids didn't get married.
	So she did want the kids to get married, but she also wanted to stay in charge of the family.
	And that happens in part so that values and culture can be transferred and so on.
	But I'm not sure that it's just about This semi-incestuous hanging on to her sons, but probably more about establishing dominance over potential daughters-in-law.
	Could be, yeah.
	I mean, I only have theories about this.
	Well, did any of the daughters-in-law say, hey, your mom...
	Oh, sorry.
	Did any of your girlfriends say, hey, your mom's kind of rude and bossy?
	What's up with that?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And did those relationships work out?
	I mean, even my wife said that she had a very bad first experience with my mom.
	And I was trying to talk with my mom many times back then, and I was telling her that it's very bad for me and I don't like it and please stop it.
	And yeah, she said, She's doing her best, basically.
	And eventually...
	Sorry, your mother did admit fault, but wasn't able to change much?
	Eventually she did, but it took a couple of years.
	Oh, eventually she became nicer?
	Yes.
	Okay, got it.
	Yes.
	So, it was, I think, probably three or four years, maybe, altogether.
	But during that time, we never had, like, girlfriends.
	All the time in our house.
	So maybe I had one and then for a longer time, nobody.
	You know, you've come home.
	My mom's a bit of a battle ex.
	I kind of did.
	Yes.
	So and I had this bad feeling of taking anyone home.
	I was like, we had a nice home and it was it was pretty good.
	We had our very nice different rooms.
	It was private, quiet.
	So It was obviously a good place, but not with the parents.
	How was your dad with your girlfriends?
	He was ignorant, mostly.
	What does that mean?
	That's a big, big wide word.
	He didn't really care, and he was like, at some point, he didn't even want to be part of it in a way that he was like, as long as it's not Kind of serious.
	Just do whatever you want and let me know when you're basically more serious about it.
	He never said this.
	This isn't just my assumption.
	I had one experience when I took a girl home.
	It was her first time.
	My father just said hello, basically, just to be polite, and then went into his...
	Study room, and he kind of disappeared.
	So you were supposed to figure out which girls were suitable without any feedback from your father?
	Yes, that's correct.
	Never had any.
	So he says when it gets serious, but how does he know that it's the right girl to get serious with?
	He just trusts you and your teens?
	Yes.
	We basically...
	Because Lord knows, teenage boys are always objective about what kind of girls are the right ones to marry.
	Yes, that's a good source of information.
	Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
	I can't hear you above these tsunami hormones, but all right.
	Okay, so your father abandoned his parenting responsibilities in this area for sure.
	Yes, that's correct.
	Why?
	Yeah, so...
	I don't know.
	I have only...
	Yes, you do.
	Yes, you do.
	Nice try, though.
	You've heard enough of these calls to know that that doesn't work.
	But it's nice to hear people still try.
	I appreciate your optimism.
	I really do.
	So why did your father not talk to you about your girlfriends?
	Because he didn't want to face his own past.
	Basically, why he chose my mom.
	That's a very generic answer.
	Can you be a tiny bit more specific?
	Yeah.
	He wasn't happy with his own choices in his past, with my mom or either his previous...
	No, that's...
	So that's...
	There's nothing wrong with that.
	I mean, we all have things that we're unhappy about in our past, and that's why we teach our children better, right?
	I dated around too much when I was younger, so I'm trying to give better advice to my kid, right?
	Yes, that's correct.
	So why didn't he give you the benefit of his wisdom?
	Maybe he didn't have any.
	Any wisdom?
	Regarding choosing the right partner.
	Well, he would have known about things he was unhappy about regarding your mom, right?
	I always thought that he kind of buried these feelings.
	So he kind of buried it deep inside him so he doesn't have to face it.
	Thank you.
	Sorry, by that, do you mean that he didn't know that he was unhappy with your mom?
	I had no idea.
	What I would say, rather, is that...
	About whether he's unhappy with your mom?
	I think he just focused on being a good provider instead of...
	He tried to satisfy her in...
	Basically, with money and goods and...
	Giving a good life.
	Well, at least we broke that pattern.
	He said sarcastically.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	So, did he ever express any unhappiness regarding your mother?
	There were a few things that he never liked.
	My mom is a kind of collector of goods, so she does a lot of shopping and bought I don't know how many stuff.
	I mean, she has a crazy amount of cloth and shoes and whatnot.
	And it was always bothering my father that he kept saying that no matter how big our house is, she will fill it up immediately.
	So that was one thing.
	And also, my father was very dominant in public conversations, so he...
	I never really liked how...
	I don't know.
	There were some places where I didn't like how he treated my mom.
	So...
	Yeah.
	In this regard, he wasn't treating her as kind of equal or as a partner, more like someone who's under him in certain ways. more like someone who's under him in certain ways.
	Thank you.
	Well, I mean, if you're acting irresponsibly, though, it's kind of hard to treat someone as an equal if they're acting irresponsibly, right?
	I mean, if somebody wants a drunk drive, you've got to take their keys away, right?
	Yes, that's correct.
	So it may not be entirely his fault.
	Okay.
	I mean, the shopping, so he can shopping that she overshops.
	Uh, what else?
	Um, I think, I mean, there was a point where we moved from, We had a very nice flat in the city, but it was kind of small.
	And they decided that we should buy a bigger house in the suburbs.
	And it was a big financial burden because...
	It was quite a big home, and they kind of wanted to make it happen.
	And my mom, back at that time, both me and my brother were already in school, so my mom was working full-time as well.
	And my father wanted my mom to help with the finances regarding the new home, but she couldn't.
	And at some point...
	Sorry, I don't understand.
	She was working, but she couldn't contribute any income?
	Yes.
	At her father.
	Well, I mean, she just kept spending all her money on some of it on us.
	So basically she bought food and cloth for us, but she never really could save and contribute to.
	And it was an ongoing debate between them because my father told her at that point that, all right, I'll pay for all the Investment into the new house, basically financing the construction.
	And she should only pay the utility bills, which was obviously a lot smaller sum.
	And at some point, she kind of gave up that as well, because she said it's way too much and she cannot handle it.
	My father was making more money, so that was Sorry, your father's making enough to pay for a family of four, and your mom is not making enough to pay the utility bills?
	Yeah.
	I mean, she was.
	She was just spending it faster than she could make it.
	Okay.
	So, your mother made a commitment, and then didn't keep it.
	Yes, that's correct.
	And your father did what?
	He took over her commitment.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So, it's this funny kind of weakness that's going on in the males in your family that I find kind of tough to follow.
	Why do you think the men are...
	A little, I don't know, a little spineless or something.
	like okay well you said you'd pay the bills so now you're not paying the bills so I'll just pay the bills I don't know But to be honest, I also consider it a weakness, and I was thinking about it a little bit.
	Oh, no, I wasn't excluding you from this general pattern.
	Right?
	Because it's pretty easy to get your mom to stop spending money on crap and pay the bills, right?
	Do you know how to do that?
	Yeah, just tell her that then we're not moving or something.
	No, no, so let's say you move and she agrees to pay the utilities, right?
	Yeah.
	And then she doesn't pay the utilities, right?
	Yeah.
	So how do you get her to pay the utilities?
	I mean, give her an ultimatum that she pays for.
	Nope.
	Okay, well, what would have happened if your father hadn't paid the mortgage?
	Yeah, I mean...
	You get your houses kicked out on the streets.
	It's not like California, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, so what happens if your mother doesn't pay the utilities is there's no electricity in the house.
	Yes, that's correct.
	So that's pretty easy, right?
	You just, yay, here's the final notice.
	You've got to pay these utilities.
	Well, I don't have the money.
	Well, you've got to figure it out, right?
	You're a bookkeeper, right?
	You know this shit.
	Go pay the bill.
	I don't have the money.
	Well, you're going to have to figure it out.
	Maybe you can sell some of these clothes.
	Maybe you can, I don't know, but you've got to figure it out, right?
	And you treat her like an adult, in the same way that the bank treats your dad like an adult.
	Don't pay your mortgage, you don't get to keep the house.
	So it's pretty easy, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	And if your dad needs electricity and the electricity is off in the house, then he takes you and your brother and goes to a hotel until your mother figures out how to get the electricity turd back on.
	He treats her like an adult, right?
	He doesn't shield her like she's some retarded kid.
	Am I missing something?
	Maybe I'm missing something.
	But if somebody makes a commitment, they've got to keep their commitment.
	Otherwise, you're treating them like worse than a child.
	I mean, parents expect adults to keep their commitments, don't they?
	Yes.
	Sorry, parents expect kids to keep their commitments.
	And so, it's a, okay, great.
	Okay, so here's the bill.
	Oh, I don't have the money.
	Well, no, you're a bookkeeper.
	You can figure it out.
	You're a smart woman.
	I don't have the...
	You made the commitment and you've got to keep your commitment.
	I don't know what to tell you.
	Because you'll find that women who actually have things to do tend not to complain as much.
	Women who actually have responsibilities tend not to complain as much.
	But if you treat them as children, then they will act a lot of times like children.
	Thank you.
	Which is irresponsibility and complaining.
	I mean, you know I'm not really talking about your dad, right?
	You know that.
	You're a smart guy.
	You're a smart guy.
	Yeah, yeah, sure.
	I understand.
	So, there's something, you know, sorry to be so blunt, but there's something quasi-sexual about this.
	Like, oh God, what happens if I treat her as an actual adult?
	Well, okay, so let's say that your father, there's a bill that says the utilities are not paid, right?
	And he just, here, this letter's for you, right?
	And, you know, he gives her, your mom, the letter, and the utilities are not paid, and they're going to be cut off in 30 days if the bill isn't paid, right?
	Yeah.
	And he says, yeah, you've got to, you know, do your thing, right?
	And then what would she say?
	Okay.
	I mean, back then, she became kind of hysterical, and she said, this is just way too much, and she's not willing to pay it.
	And that's it.
	She kind of left the room.
	Okay.
	Oh, just, yeah, okay.
	So then, well, then electricity is going to get cut off.
	Just so you know, right?
	I mean, I don't know what the specifics are for, but, you know, you made a commitment to pay this bill, and when I make a commitment to pay My bills?
	I pay my bills.
	At the bank, right?
	I'm not going to treat you like a child.
	At the bank, I don't get to just get hysterical and run out of the room.
	I mean, that's ridiculous, right?
	I mean, if I can't make my payroll, I've got to figure out a way to make my people paid.
	I don't get to just sob and run out of the room.
	Come on.
	Be an adult.
	Pay your bills, right?
	Yeah.
	Because that's why we're in the house, is because you made a commitment to pay the bills, right?
	That's why the house is.
	And I have to pay my bills every month, and you're a bookkeeper, you have no excuse.
	I mean, you have to pay your bills.
	You have to pay your bills, right?
	And crying and sobbing and screaming is not how you pay your bills unless you're an actress, and you're supposed to cry and sob and scream in some acting scene, right?
	So then what would happen?
	Probably my mom would have eventually paid the bill.
	Well, I think so, right?
	But what would have happened prior to that?
	What's the woman's biggest weapon in a monogamous relationship if she's choosing to be petty?
	I mean, no sex.
	Right.
	She withholds affection, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So, in other words, she says, I'll have sex with you when you pay my bills.
	Which is kind of sex work.
	I'm not kidding.
	I'll have sex with you, but you have to pay my bills, which is turning your dad into a sugar daddy.
	The interesting thing is, back then, I'm not sure if they even had any kind of sexual relationship.
	Well, then he had nothing to lose, did he?
	Yeah.
	And of course, you would do this, I mean, obviously for the better mental health of your mother, because this crying, hysterical, running out of the room stuff is like, I mean, my daughter didn't do that when she was two.
	I mean, she had a sad corner, right?
	So if she was upset about something, she'd go to her sad corner, and she'd be sad, right?
	And, you know, we'd go talk to her or whatever, right?
	But this, like, throwing your arms up, running out, I mean, this is ridiculously childish, right?
	It's an insult to children, really, to say that that's childish.
	It's just sad, right?
	So the reason why you'd want to do that as a father is why?
	I mean, obviously, for the health of your wife, but why else?
	For the kids?
	Yeah.
	Because otherwise, this is what your kids think women are.
	And they're not.
	A lot of very solid, sensible women who somehow find a way to pay a bill without running screaming from the room and sobbing.
	So you don't want to condition your children, and you would do this, right?
	You would do this hopefully before the kids came along, right?
	You would say, look, you've got responsibilities and so on, right?
	Yeah.
	Because you wouldn't want to condition your kids into thinking this is that women are just hysterical and incompetent and materialistic and like, you know, big, overgrown, half-brain-damaged children.
	Yeah.
	Thank you.
	So what was your father's fear if he stood up for what was best in your mother?
	In other words, adulthood and, you know, responsibility and all that kind of good stuff.
	What was your father's fear, do you think?
	What would happen?
	Would she just divorce him and take half his stuff?
	I don't think so.
	Okay, so what was his fear?
	I mean, he didn't run a successful business or have a successful career.
	By letting people who owed him money just scream and sob and run out of the room, right?
	To be honest, I'm not sure.
	I think his pride, so he didn't want a wife or a life where his wife just left.
	And then he would have to kind of start hunting for a wife again if at that point in his life he even...
	Wanted to try it again.
	I mean, I remember when I was, it was a bit later, a couple of years later, my mom had kind of like an affair with another guy.
	Please don't tell me she's the parkour guy.
	No.
	No.
	Not like that.
	But...
	Yeah, they had an affair, but she ended up staying.
	My father offered her...
	My father told her that she's free to leave, but when they got together, basically...
	Sorry, when they got together, you mean your mother and her life?
	My parents.
	No, no, no, my parents, yeah.
	Basically, they...
	Didn't have like a marriage contract or something.
	I don't really prefer those things.
	And my father was very generous.
	So everything that he made was basically half his and half my mom's.
	So even the properties we have, half of that is on my mom as well.
	So when the situation was...
	So basically when my mom had a kind of like a lover and she wanted to leave...
	My father said that she can leave, but she should write all these properties on our names, so on the kids' names, not on his, but on mine or on my brother's name, and then she's free to leave.
	That was his request.
	Wow.
	So he really is not attached to her at all.
	Yeah.
	Because if you're weak as a husband, for most, this is not all marriages, right?
	Obviously, tons of exceptions.
	But the general principle is, if you're weak as a husband, your wife will look elsewhere.
	Yeah.
	I mean, women respond to strength in many ways, the way that men respond to sexiness.
	And if a man isn't getting sex in his marriage, she'll generally go elsewhere.
	And if a woman isn't getting strength in her marriage, she will generally go elsewhere.
	So there's a huge price to be paid for...
	I mean, I'm still trying to square this circle that you said your mom's totally easygoing, but then when she's supposed to pay a bill, she screams and cries and sobs and runs out of the room.
	I don't see that's particularly easygoing.
	going, that seems incredibly difficult.
	Yeah, maybe the easygoing terminology isn't the best, It's easygoing because your dad appeases her all the time.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, if everyone appeased me, I guess I'd be pretty easygoing, too.
	If sopping and crying and screaming got me my way and got me out of my responsibilities, I guess I'd be kind of easygoing too.
	So, I know you've got limited time, right?
	We've got another half-hour?
	Yes.
	Okay, so let's get to your marriage.
	Yeah, so we...
	Why only one child?
	Because after two years...
	I mean, I wanted three children from the get-go.
	She said two will probably be enough, let's see, first.
	And then it was difficult for us to have a first child, so...
	It's just biology.
	And it was...
	Did she have some sort of medical issue?
	Did she get tested?
	FSH levels?
	She had...
	She took birth pills for 10 years.
	And after that, once we...
	I mean, maybe a year or two before we got married.
	Before our marriage, I was traveling a lot abroad, working as a professional.
	And we had this distant relationship.
	I was spending half a year or eight months abroad and then flying back home for...
	Yes.
	And back then, we were not married.
	Back then, we were not married.
	Oh, go for it.
	Yes.
	Sorry, how long did you date before you got married?
	10 years.
	Okay, why?
	I mean, I get the 16 part, but 26?
	Basically, we started dating when I was 20.
	Then I finished my college, basically.
	It was like, yeah, I think it was a college.
	And then after that, I wanted to gain some experience and earn some money.
	Why can't you do that and be married?
	I didn't want to, if I travel a lot and we are not together.
	So basically, I didn't want to marry her while I keep traveling.
	Sorry, I don't understand.
	I mean, when you go traveling, doesn't the company put you up somewhere?
	Yeah, but she was also doing her university back then.
	So she had her...
	For what?
	So she could teach two hours a week?
	No, I mean, before we got married, she was a teacher for, I think, four or five years.
	Okay.
	So she had a job, and so she couldn't travel with you.
	And you were traveling a lot.
	She couldn't come with you because she had this teaching job.
	No, back then she was at a university, so she was studying...
	Okay, so she couldn't travel with you because she had this university degree?
	Or she was pursuing this university degree?
	Okay.
	Yes, that's correct.
	So she finished that at 22, so what about 22 to 26?
	You still weren't married.
	Oh no, she was working.
	You said she was working as a teacher, right?
	Yes, and we also had a two-year period when we were traveling together.
	So we spent a year in France and then a little bit of time in Scotland.
	Man, she's had a nice life, man.
	Yeah, I think so.
	She's had a nice life.
	Okay.
	And then she was not very happy about me traveling this much, but I kept telling her that this was, to me, I always considered this traveling period as a kind of like a speed drug, so I can gain a lot of experience and earn a lot of money in a couple of years, and then that would make life a lot easier later down the line.
	Okay.
	And I think it actually did, because I I actually made a lot of money so we could buy our own home when I came home without any bank loans and stuff.
	So that's a super huge thing.
	I just want to make sure we stay on the kids stuff.
	So you got married at 26, and how long was it before you had kids?
	She was 26 when we got married.
	I was around 30.
	And two years later...
	Maybe three.
	But we started working on the kid part.
	So basically, she was off the pills two years before we got married.
	And I started talking to her about that.
	At first, she was kind of hesitant because she wanted me to marry her first, which I totally respected.
	So she wanted you to marry her before trying for kids?
	Yes, that's correct.
	And then...
	She stopped taking the birth pills, but her periods and her hormones were messed up.
	We don't know for sure why.
	Was it after you were married that she stopped taking the pill?
	I think before.
	Okay, got it.
	Maybe a year or two before.
	Okay, so sorry, I just want to make sure we get to the meat of the matter because I'm really conscious of time.
	Normally we have a little bit more leisure, but I'm aware that you've got to go in like 24 minutes.
	So you have a kid.
	How old was she?
	You had three years after you got married?
	Yes, after the marriage, yeah.
	Okay, so after you've been together for 13 years, you have a kid.
	And were you just not able to have more?
	Yeah.
	I mean, for a year, we didn't try, but after a year, we tried for a year and a half.
	It wasn't super strict, so we were not doing any medical treatment or taking counsel or any kind of...
	Sorry, you didn't get less involved or anything like that?
	Yes, exactly.
	And why not?
	Because she wasn't rushing it.
	No, but she's in her 30s at this point, right?
	Yes.
	And you have, you know, some pretty massive fertility issues, right?
	And you want three kids, you have one kid, and of course it's better for your kid if you can have a sibling fairly close in age, right?
	Yes.
	So why wouldn't you see a specialist?
	I mean, if she had said, I'm going to go see a fertility specialist, would you have said, absolutely not?
	Thank you.
	Me?
	No, of course not.
	So, she couldn't conceive, and she never saw a specialist?
	I mean, after the first birth, no, we didn't go.
	Well, I mean, she would go, right?
	I mean, I guess you could go and get a sperm count thing going or whatever, right?
	So, why did she not see a specialist?
	Did she not want more kids?
	I mean, deep down?
	Maybe, or not yet.
	I mean, if somebody had said, I'm going to give you $10 million to have another kid, do you think she would have gone to see a specialist?
	I don't think so.
	I think she would have.
	I'm absolutely quite sure she would have.
	Maybe.
	Because, I mean, that's the logical thing to do.
	If you're desperate to have a child, or you really want to have a child, and you can't conceive, you go to a specialist, right?
	Yes, that's correct.
	Okay, so because she didn't go to a specialist...
	How much did you want another child?
	I wanted it quite a lot.
	Okay.
	So did you ever suggest that she go to a specialist?
	I think not after the first child.
	Why not?
	Before?
	Why not?
	You want another kid?
	She can't conceive!
	Go to a specialist!
	this is health 101 because she didn't want to have another kid so much and you didn't want to upset her Come on, isn't that it?
	Yeah, pretty much.
	Okay.
	So, she has a kid, and she stays home with your son, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, she stays home with your son, and then your son...
	At what age did your son start going to kindergarten or school?
	Almost four.
	Okay.
	Is homeschooling allowable in your country?
	No, unfortunately.
	Okay.
	Can you move to a country where homeschooling is allowable?
	Because you're a big travel guy, right?
	Yeah, it occurred to me.
	Okay.
	And why did you...
	Because we had this plan of building our own school.
	That was part of the reason why we wanted to do it.
	So I... I don't really want to leave the country, but I also don't want to be a total hypocrite.
	And after knowing how public education works, still putting my son...
	Sorry, I'm a little confused.
	What the fuck would it have to do with your preferences?
	It's what's best for your kid.
	Maybe I'm missing something here.
	I, I, I, we, we, I, we, what's best for your son?
	I mean, for our son, it would be the best to avoid the public education, that's for sure.
	Okay, so is that your decision?
	If it's best for your son, I mean, what am I missing here?
	But the idea is that how can we avoid that and we have come up with a couple of plans for that.
	And one is actually leaving the country.
	But it's not necessarily...
	Okay, but nothing's happening, nothing's imminent, and your wife is not working 24-7 to make these plans happen because she wants to do what's best for your son, right?
	Because your wife's the teacher, so she'd know this stuff, right?
	Okay, so the plans are nonsense, right?
	Because your wife is kissing parkour guys rather than starting a school, right?
	Yes.
	okay so your wife is how old now I 36.
	36.
	So what happened four years ago, so the last two years of your marriage, and was there anything that happened in particular two years ago?
	I mean, she had this accident with her arm, I think that was two years ago, and I was kind of pissed about it.
	Well, because a year after she gave birth, she's off doing parkour.
	I think two years, but yes.
	Why?
	Because she doesn't feel satisfied with her life at home.
	And what does she feel unsatisfied about?
	Lack of communication, lack of socializing.
	Okay.
	And, of course, there are six million different ways to socialize other than parkour, right?
	I mean, she was telling me that she wanted more from me, more talk and more traveling.
	For instance, there was...
	But you're making a lot of money to support the households, right?
	How are you supposed to travel?
	We did travel actually quite a lot.
	I mean, I took her to kind of fancy places, Mauritius and I don't know what.
	So we also do...
	A lot of surfing together, and we go...
	Okay, so her life is not short of luxuries, right?
	I would say so, yes.
	Okay.
	So she's dissatisfied with her life, and her first thought is that you have to fix it, right?
	Because, I mean, from what you've written to me, all she does is complain about you.
	Thank you.
	You're not emotionally available.
	You don't talk enough.
	You don't take me places.
	You don't do this.
	I mean, am I wrong?
	What if she's saying, I'm dissatisfied with my life and it's my job To fix it, right?
	Maybe I'm dissatisfied because I only had one kid, right?
	I mean, she's young enough.
	She could have another kid, right?
	If she went to a specialist and then your son would have a sibling for the rest of his life.
	Because when you make decisions about your kids, you're making decisions for the rest of their lives, right?
	Yes.
	But she doesn't.
	Are you guys still trying to have kids?
	Not right now.
	Okay.
	And do you have any sex life at all right now?
	No.
	Okay.
	And how long has it been since you had a sex life?
	I mean, more than just intermittent, like regular sex life?
	Four months.
	Okay.
	So, she's dissatisfied, and she's turning to you to solve her dissatisfaction, and for some reason, I can't quite figure it out, for some reason, you're accepting that this is your job.
	Now, she says that you're not as emotionally available as she would like, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Were you much more emotionally available over the past 18 years before these problems came up?
	And did it suddenly change because you got a piece of shrapnel to the neofrontal cortex or something?
	No.
	I actually became a lot better, I think, over the years because I was a lot worse when we started dating.
	Well, see, here's the thing.
	I don't know about worse.
	Do you know why men are not expressive in their emotions?
	Because it's a liability?
	Yeah.
	I mean, try negotiating in the business world if other people can read you like a book.
	Try gambling.
	Try being in conflict with people who can read you like a book.
	Men hide.
	We hide our feelings so we can win resources.
	So a woman who wants a good income from a man and for the man to be wildly emotionally available wants complete opposite things.
	It's like saying to a woman, I want you to be eight months pregnant and slender at the same time.
	It's like, I'm afraid you're going to have to pick a lane there, buddy.
	So does she understand that your, quote, lack of emotional availability, A, is partly just because you're a man, and B, because you're a competitive, competent, and successful man, which means you can't have other people reading you like a book.
	I don't think she understands that.
	Okay, so have you told her something like, I mean, I just remember this from a relationship in my 20s, where, you know, I was having a great chat with a friend of mine who's an economist, and we were talking about the world and life and this and that and the other.
	And, you know, I got off the phone and my girlfriend was like, you didn't even ask how his wife was or anything like that.
	I'm like, yeah, because we're guys.
	Don't judge me by your standards.
	I mean, you don't hear me bitching about you talking to your girlfriends because you're not discussing the Federal Reserve.
	I mean, I'm a man, so you can enjoy me being a man, or you can try and turn me into a girl, which won't work, and you'll be unhappy if you even got close to succeeding.
	So, help me understand, like, is she defining masculinity as broken femininity?
	Like, if you're just more like her or like what she wants her girlfriends to be or something, that you'll be fixed and better?
	Yeah.
	Okay, well, stop that!
	Don't do that!
	Be happy and proud in your masculinity.
	It's a beautiful, wonderful, amazing, powerful force.
	Is it the same as femininity?
	Nope!
	Viva la différence, I say, right?
	The difference is good.
	She's got great strengths as a woman, you have great strengths as a man, but don't have her try and turn you into...
	Okay, when did she start really crabbing at you about emotional availability?
	For the last year.
	Right.
	So she starts crabbing at you about emotional availability.
	How long ago did she kiss this other guy?
	Maybe three months.
	Right.
	So you've been diligently working on being more emotionally available, right?
	Because you're a very conscientious guy.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	How's that working out for you?
	Right now?
	Well, so you spent eight months working on trying to be emotionally available, and then she ended up kissing another guy and stopping having sex with you!
	Because you gave up on your masculinity, and then what?
	You wanted her to be...
	My God.
	Are you really listening to a woman on what she finds attractive?
	I'm sorry to be so blunt, brother.
	But, I mean, again, there's lots of exceptions to this, but women say, oh, I want a sensitive guy who's really emotionally available, and then what's the biggest sex book of all time is Fifty Shades of Grey!
	I know.
	I know this.
	You're like listening to a single mom saying what women find attractive.
	It's a test!
	Which is why she says, hey, I can handle this stuff.
	It's like, okay, give me a list.
	We'll cancel it.
	Give me a list.
	Give me a list to save $3,000 a month.
	Give me that list.
	And we'll cancel it.
	Don't complain about a man being a man.
	Thank you.
	Unless you're a secret lesbian and want something completely different, in which case that's a whole different conversation.
	But don't ever be budged off your balls, man.
	Don't ever let a woman say to you, this is what a man should be.
	A man should be emotionally available.
	Don't tell me what a man should be.
	I won't tell you what a woman should be.
	Don't tell me what a man should be, because I'm the guy with the balls and you're not.
	I am who I am.
	Don't try and change me.
	If you're dissatisfied and you try to turn me into a woman, your dissatisfaction will only increase.
	And isn't that what's happened?
	I'm not sure.
	To be honest, because it's only a couple of months.
	Okay, a year ago, sorry to be so blunt, a year ago, she said to you, be more emotionally available, you worked on that, and then she kissed another guy.
	Well, yeah, she said that I wasn't working enough.
	Right, because it isn't solving her dissatisfaction.
	Because you have taken ownership of your wife's dissatisfaction like it's your problem to solve.
	And in my view, she's dissatisfied because she's kind of selfish.
	Now, maybe you are too, I don't know.
	But she was 16, you were 20.
	Don't tell me you chose her for her virtues and her wisdom.
	Why did you choose her when she was 16?
	I mean, she looked good, that's for sure.
	Yeah, she's very pretty, right?
	And also, again, it appealed to me that she was the one chasing me.
	Okay.
	So...
	You started with a more feminine masculinity because she was pursuing and you were the shy one.
	Yes.
	That's supposed to be the other way around, right?
	Yes, that's correct.
	Okay.
	So you chose her for her looks and she pursued you.
	For your looks, athleticism, and you came from a fairly wealthy family, so you did not choose each other for your innate and wonderful virtues, right?
	Yes, that's correct.
	Okay.
	So now she's dissatisfied because she's in her mid-30s, she's going through a midlife crisis, she has only one kid who's in school all day, and she's bored!
	And she's bored and she won't say to herself, I'm bored because I'm kind of lazy.
	I mean, what does she work really hard at?
	She works two hours a week, right?
	She's got a maid who comes in.
	What is she working really hard at?
	What is she working at to improve?
	I mean, you work really hard at your job, right?
	So what is she working really hard at?
	I mean, she's reading a lot of self-help books.
	Nope, that's selfish.
	Literally, it's in the title, self.
	Okay, what is she working hard on?
	Is she saying, well, the best thing for my son is I've got to start a school, man, and that's going to be a lot of work I'm going to dig in, right?
	How many hours of hard work does your wife put in a day?
	You're doing 10 to 12 with commute, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, 10 to 12.
	Half your day.
	Right?
	Is working for the family.
	What is she putting 10 to 12 hours of work into every day?
	She's got one kid in school and no job, really.
	Oh, she's doing some university crap, right?
	Which is something for the school, is that right?
	That she's got to have this university crap for the school?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So is she taking everything she can possibly take as fast as quickly, as fast as humanly possible?
	And also, how long is that process going to take?
	It's a two-year process and one year is gone.
	So basically, one more year.
	Okay.
	And when did she first know that she needed that in order to open a school?
	When it became clear, she immediately applied.
	So we were not aware.
	Okay.
	Why doesn't she, in conjunction with you, hire someone?
	Because she says she can cut back on money, right?
	So why don't you hire someone who already has the accreditation to start the school so that she can begin managing it and implementing it right away?
	Why do you have to wait two years for her to get accreditation that you could just pay someone else to have?
	Yeah, it actually occurred to us.
	The reason we decided not to was because we didn't want to outsource this part of the school because it's too much of a liability to this person with the paper.
	Sorry, I don't understand.
	So basically, if we hire somebody who has the right paper, then that person might have too much saying into what happens in the school.
	Especially your entire career, working with people, I assume, hiring people as well.
	We just hire the right person.
	Yeah.
	I mean, it's not that easy, because not that many people have this kind of paper.
	That's number one.
	Number two, they are kind of, in general, not the easiest ones to work with.
	They have their ideas and needs and whatnot.
	It's certainly possible, so I'm not saying it's impossible to find the right people.
	Whatever, difficulties, difficulties.
	I don't believe much in difficulties, but if you're going to say that's a deal-breaker, that's your wife talking.
	You could find a way to do it.
	It's the $10 million question.
	If somebody paid you $10 million to hire someone who would run the school for a year or two, that's all.
	Because then your wife can finish her accreditation and take over, right?
	Yes.
	So you're saying there's just no way.
	This is difficulties.
	And difficulties and bowing down before difficulties is not male.
	Male is, we'll find a way.
	That's how your career went, right?
	Yep.
	Find a way.
	So this is your wife talking.
	Well, there's this difficulties and that.
	It's like, okay, there's difficulties.
	So fucking what?
	There's difficulties in life.
	I get it.
	So find a way around them.
	So, or, now, let me ask you this.
	So, she's working at this university.
	She's, what, getting a master's or something?
	Is that right?
	Yes.
	Okay, so she's getting a master's.
	Now, I've done a master's.
	I don't know if that sounds like you've done a master's too.
	It's not a lot of work, honestly.
	No, it's not.
	The actual work is not a lot.
	It's just the time.
	It's not a lot of work.
	Okay, so, your wife has one year to go when she's finished her master's and can run the school, right?
	Yes.
	So how thick is your spreadsheet and business plan for the school?
	How much has she been working on finding locations, evaluating real estate prices and figuring out marketing campaigns and figuring out the budget and how many teachers you're going to hire and working on the curriculum?
	How hard is your wife working on developing all of the mind-bogglingly complex and detailed stuff you need to open a school?
	Yeah, we don't have any of that.
	I offered my help, but she- No!
	So it's nonsense!
	She's just killing time because she doesn't want to work on the school.
	No, I'll take a master's, right?
	But she's only got a year to go.
	I mean, you've been a businessman for a long time.
	Starting any complex venture takes more than a year of planning, usually, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, so, and it's her job.
	You already have a job.
	You're working 10 to 12 hours, right?
	So it's her job to open the school.
	And has she done anything in terms of planning for the opening of the school?
	No.
	Not much.
	Okay.
	So it's not going to happen.
	So, which means that, and this is why she's bored and discontented.
	Because if she was like, oh, you know, for the best and better of my son in the future, and this way my son is going to have good kids to play with, and so on, first of all, she should have been going to a specialist years ago to get a sibling for your son.
	And you guys should have had open conversations, but she didn't really want to do that, and you just let her get away with it.
	And now she's faffing around doing this nonsense degree without doing any of the planning necessary to actually open the school, which means it's not going to happen.
	Oh, because then what's going to happen is, oh, you know, well, I finished my master's, now I've got to start looking at maybe some real estate, and that's going to take another six months or so, and then I guess I should get a spreadsheet going of the business plan, right?
	It's just going to go on and on, right?
	And then what's going to happen is, I guarantee you she's probably gambling on this unconsciously, what's going to happen is she's going to say, well, I guess we're finally vaguely ready to think about starting to open the school, but, you know, our son is embedded in his school, he's got all these friends, he doesn't want to leave now, right?
	You know how this works.
	You know how people defer work all the time.
	Yeah.
	So the problem is that she needs something to do with her life.
	you Not make work crap like this master's degree in parkour.
	But to do that, she's going to...
	When was the last time your wife worked hard?
	I mean, I'm telling you, my wife is a force of nature.
	Like, if she sits down for half an hour during the day, it's a miracle.
	And I'm constantly saying to her, slow down, right?
	But she's just a really hard worker.
	I'm a pretty hard worker myself, too, but...
	That's satisfying, because then you don't sit there and wonder what you did with your day and get this vague Russian malaise going on or whatever, right?
	Because it's like, you know what you did.
	So when was the last time your wife worked eight hours a day hard at anything?
	When she was still teaching at the public school, so maybe before her son was born.
	Well, I mean, yeah.
	He took care of the...
	Okay, I'm not sure that teaching at a public school is really working that hard, but, you know, not compared to...
	It's not 10 to 12 hours a day.
	And you get your couple of months off in the summer, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, so, no, not really.
	when was the last time that your wife works really hard at anything?
	So she's a lady of leisure.
	She's a pampered-up middle-class woman who's bored because she doesn't work much at anything.
	So, I mean, I get it.
	I mean, I understand the appeal I wrote about these kinds of women called Ladies Who Lunch in my novel, The God of Atheists, but it's fine.
	But then the price of not working much at anything is that you're going to feel bored and restless and discontented, because she's an intelligent woman, obviously, and she's probably got great capabilities, but she just doesn't know how to do hard work.
	And so, that's fine.
	So, you know, if she comes to you and say, well, the problem in my life is that you're not emotionally available enough, it's like, no, that's not your problem.
	The problem is you have one kid who's in school and you're bored.
	And the solution to that is to get a project, get a community, get a charity, get a school going, like, whatever it is, right?
	But the answer isn't more parkour and kissing some other guy, that's just causing problems.
	And you have way more to complain about than your wife does because she actually broke the marriage vow by kissing another guy.
	And, dear God, I hope that's all that happened.
	I mean, I trust her and that's what she told me, so...
	Why do you trust her?
	She gave me no reason to don't.
	What do you mean she gave you no reason to not trust her?
	She kissed another guy.
	Yeah, but she kind of told me about that.
	Okay, how do you know that's all that happened?
	I'm not saying that more did happen, but how do you know?
	From her words.
	Okay, but how long after she kissed the guy did she tell you she kissed the guy?
	A couple of weeks.
	Okay, and how long did she have this, quote, friendship with the young hot parkour guy before she kissed him?
	A year.
	Okay.
	Why the fuck would you allow or encourage or countenance your wife having a friendship with a young, attractive male outside of marriage?
	I was kind of happy that she has, I don't know, any kind of social life that she can, I don't know, satisfy her.
	Okay.
	Let's say you hire some totally hot secretary to work with you and travel with you.
	What's your wife going to think?
	Yeah, we actually have this issue, because some of the girls who are my employees look pretty good, and she keeps bugging me about that.
	Oh, okay.
	So she can have her hot friends, but you can't have hot employees.
	I mean, I have, but she just keeps complaining about that.
	No, I mean, but in her mind, it's a bad thing, right?
	Yeah, yeah, that's correct.
	Okay, so I don't know what you guys' marriage is all about then.
	If you can get emotional and quasi-romantic sustenance outside the marriage, I'm not saying this is the case with your employees, but certainly it is the case with her parkour friend, right?
	And what kind of creepy guy hangs around a married woman?
	Yeah, I told her that.
	Well, when did you tell her that?
	When I... When it became apparent to me what is happening.
	And basically when she told you she kissed him?
	Yes.
	Well, that's a little late, isn't it?
	Yes, that's correct.
	So you were happy to porn your wife off on some hot guy because she was complaining about not enough socialization.
	Well, yeah, that's true.
	And she was actually, I think, doing it partially just to...
	But just to bring it to my attention that, hello, I'm here.
	Well, she probably wanted you to say, get this skeevy parkour asshole out of her life.
	Yes, that's correct.
	Now you say, oh, but I don't want to be bossy and I don't want to tell her what to do.
	And it's like, no, you don't tell her what to do.
	You remind her of her vows.
	And it is a form of cheating to have a hot, single, opposite-sex friend for a year, especially when the marriage isn't doing well.
	That's just a kind of cheating.
	And you come home and you deal with the marriage.
	You don't just hang out with Mr.
	Flexi Muscles, right?
	Yeah.
	But you were happy to, in a sense, you said you were relieved that she was going off And hanging out with hot parkour guy.
	She seemed happier that she's not, because she was kind of depressed because of all the lack of social life.
	Okay, so this is just another complaint that she's making about why she's unhappy.
	What do you admire, respect, love and treasure about your wife?
	Courage, mostly.
	I mean, she's a very...
	Okay, in what area is she courageous?
	How does the courage manifest?
	I'm not disagreeing with you, I just want to make sure I understand.
	Talking.
	She's always kind of upfront about a lot of stuff, so she can...
	Wasn't she a attractive parkour guy for a year before she kissed him?
	That's correct.
	Okay, so she wasn't upfront about that.
	That's correct as well.
	Okay, so let's not try that one.
	Try another, though.
	She's also joyful, so she enjoys stuff that she does.
	No, she said she's depressed and miserable.
	So let's try another one.
	Distressed, miserable, complaining, and dissatisfied is not joyful.
	She's not a great mother because a great mother doesn't kiss another man.
	Thank you.
	Because that destabilizes the marriage and threatens the marriage, which threatens the happiness of her son.
	She chose hot parkour guy over the happiness of her son.
	Because now the parents are unhappy, so she's not a great mom from that standpoint.
	She's not putting her son first with regards to getting the school going, because she's not going to be ready in a year when she's done her master's, not even close to ready, and that work's going to fall on you, and then she's going to complain that you're even more unavailable when she didn't put the school thing together, and now you have two nights and weekends.
	So what else?
	Yes.
	Thank you.
	I mean, those are my picks.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So right now, there's not a lot that you admire about your wife.
	If I understand this part of the conversation correctly.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	And I mean, how could you?
	Right?
	She's complaining about the very things that make you successful.
	She's complaining that you're not showing her appreciation when she shows you appreciation for working 10 to 12 hours a day for her and the family five times in 10 years.
	She goes and does ridiculously irresponsible things like becoming some parkour chick in her 30s, breaking her arm.
	She hangs out for a year with a guy she's attracted to and never tells you about anything.
	And she complains about you without realizing she has to earn your admiration and love.
	And this is a situation that you have let happen and contributed to for almost 20 years, right?
	What are your standards for her?
	When have you sat down and said, look, here's the problems I have with you.
	You complain.
	You don't show appreciation.
	You nag.
	You do irresponsible things.
	You don't listen.
	I can't give you any advice.
	You are unfaithful in the marriage for a year.
	You're not preparing for the school thing.
	I'm not finding much about you to admire at the moment.
	And I would really like it if we could talk about some of the things that you could change rather than just endlessly complaining about me.
	Now, what would she say to something like that?
	I don't know.
	Yes, you do.
	Because otherwise you would have said something like that because you're not telling her the truth if you're withholding from her the things that bother you.
	Do you see?
	If you're just taking on all the problems in the relationship, oh, it's all me, your dissatisfaction is all me, I tell you what, I'll work a 10-12 hour day, and then I'll come home, and I'll do housework, and I'll try to become more emotionally available, and I'll let you have hot parkour guys around, and, and, and, and, right?
	That's sad!
	Stop it!
	Stop appeasing!
	Stop it!
	It's not going to work.
	It isn't working.
	You've been trying this for 20 years.
	Your father tried it for even longer.
	How does it work?
	To have no needs, to appease, to take on all the burdens and make everything your fault.
	To self-erase.
	Thanks.
	It keeps her infantilized, you dissatisfied, Your son gets the wrong impression of an adult relationship, and the marriage falls apart.
	Could you imagine a business relationship like this?
	You've got a business partner who just complains that you're working 12 hours a day, he's working 3 hours a day, and he complains that it's all your fault?
	Well, I can tell you about that.
	I have a business relationship which is kind of similar.
	Well, there you go.
	So there's a pattern, right?
	Yes, that's correct.
	Through your father, you learned to have no needs and preferences and to just appease other people because you're scared of them.
	If you say to your wife, look, we've spent a lot of years now talking about my deficiencies.
	Let's talk about the things I'm unhappy with.
	I don't know if this is happening in your talk therapy or whatever, or is your marriage counseling just about how you're bad and wrong and need to change?
	I can't imagine that's the case.
	So what does she need to change?
	Like, give me the speech you'd give to her if you knew she'd really, really listen and take it seriously.
	What would you want to tell her about your dissatisfactions?
	I would definitely start with the long-term plans.
	So where does she want to be in two, three, five years?
	What are the plans and what do we do to actually get there?
	I actually told her a few times that that's the major part I'm missing right now because she keeps telling me that she wants to enjoy the present right now and just don't care about the future.
	So what's the we there?
	You said, what do we have to do to make that happen?
	Yeah, that's correct.
	What does she have to do?
	Well, and she doesn't have to do anything, but then don't take her complaints seriously.
	You know, if I have a friend who eats badly and doesn't exercise and then complains that he's tired...
	I'd be like, am I going to take his complaints?
	Oh my gosh, that's so bad.
	That's such a mystery.
	Maybe I can exercise for you.
	Right?
	I mean, if your wife wants to pursue these kind of vaguely selfish things and not work hard at anything, And indulge in extramarital affairs, then she's going to be unhappy.
	Okay, so you can say, you know, hey man, I sympathize with the unhappiness, but it's all the result of your actions.
	No, it's your fault.
	It's like, no, no, no.
	No, no, no, no.
	No, just don't take that on, right?
	Because that's trapping her in dysfunctional behavior.
	Like, what has been the fallout of her kissing another man?
	Let's just say it was only kissing.
	What has the fallout been of her kissing another man?
	What has she changed?
	What has she been horrified about with regards to her own behavior?
	And what has she committed to changing?
	I'm not sure, to be honest.
	Oh, so she kissed another man, and it's still somehow your fault!
	Because you just weren't emotionally available enough!
	Yes, pretty much.
	Okay, how would it be if you had an affair with some hot woman at work?
	What would your wife be like, oh, clearly that's my fault for not being sexually available enough?
	No.
	No, she would nail you to a tree, right?
	Yes.
	Right.
	So, your wife isn't even apologetic and willing to change when she had an emotional affair that culminated in a physical whatever for a year.
	But then, you were happy to have it happen because she stopped complaining, right?
	Okay, honey, you can have your hot parkour, guy.
	Just don't complain.
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	Well, man, what are you teaching your son here, man?
	Women can get whatever the hell they want.
	All they have to do is complain, and your only job as a man is to appease and throw them hot parkour teachers for their recreation.
	You think your son's going to want to get married?
	I hope so.
	Do you think he's going to, he's looking at your marriage, right?
	He's six years old.
	He's seeing and absorbing everything, right?
	Yeah.
	Right.
	He knows that you guys are unhappy.
	He knows you're not getting along.
	He knows you appease.
	He knows your wife nags and half bullies and complains and gets whatever she wants, right?
	Is he going to want your life?
	I can't wait.
	To be like Dad?
	I can't wait to get a woman like Mom.
	What are you teaching your son about women and men?
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	And how relationships work?
	I mean, he doesn't have any other examples in the house.
	I mean, you already have a private school called marriage.
	Yeah, that's correct.
	And what's he seeing?
	Is he seeing parents who are happy and thrilled to see each other?
	You know, I saw this tweet the other day about how my husband and I were so happy to see each other in the restaurant that the couple next to us broke up.
	You know, unless I'm deep in the middle of something, whenever my wife comes home, I like sprint down the hallway and collide into her.
	I'm thrilled that she's home.
	Because there's not really a whole lot of point having kids if they don't continue the line, or if they continue the line and they're miserable or get divorced.
	What is your concern regarding your wife if you start to have standards and preferences that she needs to take...
	Now, you can say, well, I can't enforce them.
	It's like, yeah, no, of course you can't enforce them.
	I get that.
	I understand that.
	But you can say, hey, man, I've spent the last couple of years listening to your complaints.
	It hasn't really worked out.
	Let's try shaking it up and changing it around, and now you can listen to my issues.
	And this, like, where are you going to be in five years?
	She's not an employee, man.
	It's not your job to run her life.
	It's not your job to substitute your energy and enthusiasm for things she's missing.
	She's got to develop these things for herself.
	And if a woman who doesn't work that much and doesn't sound like she's got a pretty great life, you're taking her to Mauritius and she gets to go parkouring and she gets to hang out with hot parkour guys and she doesn't have to really work and she does a bit of university and she does two hours of teaching a week and blah, blah, blah.
	It's a pretty sweet gig, right?
	I mean, I think ultimately, I guess it's unsatisfying and all of that.
	But if she's complaining that she's feeling under-socialized, it's like, well...
	Then you should go start a charity.
	Go join a charity.
	Go, you know, Do these things, but I can't do it because I'm working 10 to 12 hours.
	Well, you should work less.
	Okay, we can certainly talk about that.
	Then give me a list of all the things that you want to cut in the household.
	Now, she never gives you that list, and then she says, I want you to be my social life, and you say, no, well, you know, I have to work to pay the bills, and I asked you which bills to cut.
	You didn't say anything, so I'm going to keep working.
	I mean, I gave you the option.
	You didn't take it, so you don't get to complain about me working when you want the fruits of my labor.
	I mean, you don't have to get mad at anything, right?
	It's just bland consequences.
	Well, yeah, your life is unsatisfying.
	Yeah.
	Like, I got so sick of you, I threw you into the arms of hot parkour guy for a year.
	Like, I'm not proud of that.
	But that's where things are.
	I would rather you flirt with some hot young guy than complain to me.
	This is how bad things have gotten.
	So you've got to stop complaining.
	You chose me.
	You've got to stop complaining.
	You've got to stop asking me to fix your life.
	You're 36 years old, for God's sakes, or 34 years old.
	It's your life.
	We're partners.
	I don't own you.
	I don't run you.
	I'm not here to give your life meaning or be your entire social circle.
	You've got one kid who's in school most of the day.
	You've got no particular hobbies.
	You do a little bit of university and a little bit of teaching.
	So you're bored.
	I get that.
	So then find something to do.
	I can't tell you what that is.
	It's not my job.
	You don't tell me how to spend eight hours of my day.
	But me changing is off the table.
	And I'm sorry that I let it go on for so long.
	It's a bad habit and it comes to do with my family and blah, blah, blah.
	But yeah, me changing?
	Nope.
	It's off the table.
	Your life is not a problem because I'm not emotionally expressive enough or I'm not socializing enough and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	Like we all agreed on the spending stuff and you haven't given me any actual cuts.
	Other than impossible ones, like, let's not have a car!
	So, you're dissatisfied because you're underutilized.
	And you can be underutilized, that's fine, but I'm just not going to listen to you complain about it, and I'm certainly not going to listen to you complain and say, it's my fault that you're unhappy.
	You have all of the privilege, and like, look at, throughout human history, man, come on, lady, look at, all throughout human history, how many people throughout all of human history would have given their eye teeth To have the opportunities and resources you have.
	People in the Black Death, people in the Second World War, people in the Napoleonic Wars, people in Dickensian London, slaves, conscriptees, women without access to modern medicine, dying in childbirth.
	How many women throughout human history would look at you with sympathy?
	They would do anything to be in your position.
	We have won the lottery of human history.
	And you complain and complain and complain.
	And I'm not going to listen to it anymore.
	If you want to solve things, I'm happy to help.
	If you've got an idea, we can talk about it.
	But the idea that you have all of these privileges, all of this money, you've only got one kid who's in school, The idea that you're complaining and complaining and complaining and depressed and depressed and depressed.
	And it's my fault, my fault, my fault.
	I've played this game too long.
	I'm sick of it and I'm not doing it anymore.
	What would she say?
	I don't know.
	I'll figure out.
	I'm sorry?
	I will figure it out.
	Yes, that's what I said.
	I know you've got to go, so we can stop here.
	If there's anything you want to mention at the end?
	No, other than thank you very much for this and everything that you do.
	Yeah, I don't know if she speaks English.
	If she wants to talk, I'm certainly happy to chat with her, too, if there's anything I can do to help.
	Obviously...
	Yeah, she speaks.
	Yeah, I can talk to both.
	I can talk to just her.
	I'm obviously thrilled.
	She's certainly welcome to listen to this.
	And, you know, if I've got anything wrong, she's certainly welcome to correct me.
	And maybe I'm just not emotionally available enough for her, too.
	But, yeah, keep me positive about how it's going.
	And I obviously wish you guys the very best, in particular, for the sake of your son.
	Thank you.
	And I hope you guys do have a conversation about having more kids.
	That certainly would give her more to do.
	All right.
	Keep me posted.
	Thanks for the call, man.
	Thank you very much.
	Bye-bye.

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