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Nov. 15, 2024 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:08:33

How to NOT be Loved! Freedomain Call In

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	Nice to chat with you, and I am all ears.
	I think we have a fairly open topic for tonight, so you will have to lead me in the direction you want to go.
	Sure.
	I took some notes, so not to be too scatterbrained about it.
	So I just want to start, I mean...
	Really, just to thank you for everything that you do.
	I mean, if I'm getting my dates right, it's almost your 20-year anniversary with FreedomAid, right?
	Yeah, it's coming up.
	I mean, it sort of depends on how you count it, but yeah, it's definitely coming up.
	Yeah, I'll be curious to see if you have anything in mind, some sort of celebration, or you don't want to reveal?
	I don't have anything particular thought of right now, but I'm sure we'll get to it.
	Cool, I was just curious.
	I've been listening probably near the beginning, definitely when you were speaking in the car, doing those videos.
	The red room and the red car.
	I actually got into philosophy as a preteen, and you'll find this adorable, I'm sure, because I wanted to convince my parents to Yeah, that's good.
	That could happen.
	Because when you're a kid, I'm just like, maybe if I... Oh, go ahead.
	No, go ahead.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah, I just thought, hey, if I knew logic or how to make better arguments, then I'm sure I could persuade my parents to do things.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	It came out of a frustration of trying to get my way with things.
	I bought this audio series of cassettes called The Giants of Philosophy, narrated by Charlton Heston, of all people.
	Anyway, that's how I got into it.
	During that time, I was told it doesn't matter what you get a degree in, just that you get a degree when you go to college.
	Love philosophy.
	I mean, I majored for love, not for practicality.
	But that's where I found you.
	College was kind of unsatisfactory in terms of my philosophical...
	It was very heady and crusty academic.
	But I found you, and you had this punk rock take on philosophy that's like a verb.
	Not just this academic stuff that's siloed away.
	So yeah, I just wanted to say thank you.
	You probably saved my intellectual life.
	You've been sort of like a prophet or something.
	The things that you covered, even in the early days, you covered so much.
	People are still talking about or people still haven't understood or gotten or they're coming out with it like they just thought of it, but you had already been talking about this for however long you have.
	I watched that and I chuckled to myself.
	Just how right on you've been.
	I'm just another voice saying thank you so much for what you've done and what you've sacrificed and all the hard work and all that.
	Well, thanks.
	I appreciate that.
	That's very kind.
	Yeah.
	I actually have a little story I wanted to share with you.
	I saw you speak live in At Stephen F. Austin University in Nacogdoches, Texas.
	I don't know if you have any memory of that.
	I think so.
	Yeah, it was a while ago.
	It's kind of a sad story, but maybe a little humorous.
	I don't know.
	You can laugh at me if you want, but I actually was a huge fan even at that point.
	I don't have the calculation of how many years into listening I was, but I had all your books in a backpack, and I wanted to get your autographs on them.
	And I was excited.
	I'm from Houston, so I took the trip to Nacogdoches.
	It was a thrill to hear that you were going to be in Texas speaking live, which was pretty awesome.
	So yeah, I went there.
	I think Jeffrey Tucker was there.
	A few others.
	It was for a libertarian student conference, I believe.
	But yeah, I saw you speak, and it was great.
	But I didn't get a chance to meet you personally, which is sad.
	I was worn out.
	I'll spare you the mundane details, but I had an opportunity to kind of approach you, but there was a couple that was like, For lack of a better term, monopolizing your time, in my opinion, as a seeker of wanting to meet you.
	And it was in between one of the sessions at the event, and I remember I was standing there, I saw you talking to this couple, and they would just not let you go.
	I thought they were just going to briefly meet you and then walk away.
	But I was like, you know, I'm probably only going to get one chance at this, so...
	I'm going to be out of character and try and be as much of a pain in the ass as I can to actually get here, get to meet them.
	So I'm standing there waiting politely, quote-unquote, internally stewing for this couple to take a breather where I could approach.
	But the next session was starting and the attendant at the college was like, okay, you need to go back in.
	The next event's starting now.
	And I said, okay, just one moment.
	And they're still talking to you.
	I'm like, what do I do?
	I'm sweating.
	He's like, yeah, sir, you need to go in.
	I'm like, yeah, just one minute.
	I'll be right there, I promise.
	I'm just standing there, again, continuing to wait.
	And I'm like, what do I do?
	I just, you know, I didn't know.
	Anyway, I tried my best, but eventually the attendant would simply not let me be.
	I couldn't find a way.
	I didn't want to just charge in and interrupt and say, excuse me, and bombard you.
	I just couldn't find a way, so I ended up returning.
	Obviously, the rest is history.
	Of course, I didn't meet you, but I thought you might find that amusing.
	Well, I'm sorry we didn't get a chance to meet, so how can I best help you tonight?
	Um...
	Yeah, um...
	I guess...
	I'm sorry, I don't really have anything to help with.
	I just...
	I just wanted to...
	I don't have a particular issue.
	Sorry, I'm a little confused.
	So you requested a call-in show, right?
	Yeah, I requested to speak with you.
	Okay, so you requested a call-in show, and I mean, you've been listening for a long time, and I really, really appreciate that.
	So when I book time to do call-in shows, my general goal, as you know, is to be able to Answer questions, help someone with issues or challenges, and I mean, I don't have to tell you the format of the call-in shows,
	you know them very well, so when you book a call-in show, I'm trying to sort of understand how I can help you, what it is that we can chat about that's going to be of value to philosophy, to the audience as a whole.
	Okay, you're right.
	This is embarrassing for me, so I didn't have any...
	I'm unprepared in that regard.
	Okay, then we have a topic.
	I'm sorry?
	And then we have a topic.
	About misunderstanding?
	Well, no, you can't possibly misunderstand the show if you've been listening for almost 20 years.
	You've probably listened to hundreds of call-in shows, right?
	Yes.
	So you had a goal in...
	And I'm not upset or anything.
	I think it's very interesting, right?
	So you had a goal in sending me a call-in request, right?
	Yes.
	If you were somebody who didn't know the show, but you do, and so...
	Given that I booked the time tonight, and there's lots of people who want call-in shows, then we may have a topic, which is, why did you book a call-in show when you know what the call-in shows are about, but don't seem to have a question?
	Which is fine.
	I'm just curious why that's your approach.
	Yeah, I think this is me making a stupid assumption, which was, as you said, I've listened to a wide variety of call-in shows, and they are over an extremely wide variety of topics.
	So I just figured, like, just thanking you and a long-time listener and my perspective of, you know, how you benefited me and all that.
	Sorry, but you could just drop that in an email, which I appreciate, but you don't book a call-in show, right, for it?
	Okay, so that's the key misunderstanding I had.
	No, it's not a misunderstanding, and I'm not trying to be mean here at all, right?
	It's not a misunderstanding because you fully do understand what call-in shows are about because you've been listening for almost 20 years.
	So, I would say that you have something to talk about.
	That's fair.
	Okay, let me ask you this.
	How's your life going as a whole?
	Um...
	It's going to give a rating on a life's condition.
	Of course, it's going pretty good.
	Okay, you've been into philosophy for how long?
	All my adult life, I guess.
	Okay, how old are you?
	I'm 39.
	You're 39.
	Okay, so I've been part of your life for almost as long as you've been an adult, right?
	Now, philosophy is having values and standards and being able to rate things, right?
	So...
	Let me ask you this then.
	Are you married?
	No.
	Okay.
	I had a feeling you weren't.
	Do you want to be married?
	With the right woman?
	Yes.
	Oh, come on, man.
	That's by definition, of course, right?
	Nobody says that you want to be married to the wrong woman.
	Just covering my butt.
	No, don't cover your butt.
	I mean, don't need to say things that are obvious.
	So, you want to be married, and you're almost 40, right?
	So, why do you think you're not married?
	Well, um...
	Thank you.
	Well, I will say first, I'm not in shape.
	I'm not in bad shape, but I'm not in good shape.
	I don't work out regularly.
	I've done a lot of stop and start exercising.
	So that's probably part of it.
	It's not helping my marketing, so to speak, in terms of physicality.
	Okay, what's your height and weight?
	I'm 5'7".
	I'm like 195.
	Oh, so you're pretty heavy, right?
	Yeah, I guess.
	I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, I'll just say yes, it's true.
	What's your pant size?
	34.
	Yeah, you're pretty heavy, right?
	Yeah, I'm not in shape, yeah.
	Okay.
	Have you done your BMI? Yes, it's like 29%.
	So you're really close to severely obese, right?
	Yes.
	So you're not a little heavy.
	True.
	Okay.
	I guess I'm not trying to hide about it or anything.
	I'm just, I don't, when I look in the mirror, I'm like, I'm chubby, but I'm not like Jabba the Hutt.
	You know, I'm like, I don't, I could be heavier, but I'm not, like I said, I know I'm not in great shape.
	Okay, so, bro, just in the interest of my sanity, of course, anyone could be heavier, right?
	Sure, apologies.
	Okay, that's fine.
	So how long have you been significantly overweight for?
	It picked up in the last, I would say, five years, probably around COVID time picked up.
	Okay, so how much weight have you gained over the last half decade?
	Um, probably 35 pounds, 38 pounds-ish.
	Okay.
	And why have you gained that much weight?
	Well, I can only, I mean, calories, lack of exercise, but...
	Okay, calories and lack of exercise is another one of these things, well, obviously, right?
	Yeah.
	So what?
	I'm really trying my best to communicate.
	I apologize.
	I apologize.
	I'm thinking on the spot, so I apologize.
	I'm not trying to hide from myself, at least consciously.
	But I will say...
	Okay, come on.
	Let's just be simple.
	Did you eat more, exercise less, or both?
	That's all it comes down to.
	Both.
	Okay.
	So you exercised less, right?
	And you ate more.
	Okay.
	So why were you eating more?
	I would say because my priorities weren't I had other priorities and eating helped, like, give me the energy, quote-unquote, to do those tasks with more comfort, for comfort.
	Sorry, you...
	I don't quite understand that.
	You had other priorities and eating helped you accomplish those tasks?
	I don't know what that means.
	Like, emotional eating?
	Like, I was tackling other challenges, and that takes a lot of energy, and so I would eat to assuage myself, I would say.
	Okay, and what were those other tasks?
	A career in technology.
	It's not back-end programming, per se, but it's front-end database administration, which was new to me.
	I went to school for philosophy, But then I ended up going to a coding boot camp.
	So I had to do a career shift and that's probably when the eating picked up.
	I just had to learn a lot of new skills very quickly under high pressure to, you know, get a career rolling.
	And so are you saying that you started a new career in your mid-30s?
	You said it was five years ago.
	You're 39, so 34.
	Is that when you started a new career?
	I paused to try and give an accurate answer.
	That's why I said mid-30s rather than some exact year, right?
	Understood.
	So you started a new career in your mid-30s, and what were you doing before that?
	Well, I had some administrative jobs here and there, but I hadn't really choked I didn't have a career in the traditional sense.
	I didn't really think it through.
	I sort of didn't know what I wanted to do, but I had some professional positions like working as an administrator in a library and so on, some odd jobs here and there.
	Just to answer your question, at that moment, I was actually just working sushi delivery, which was pretty good money.
	But it's a dead-end job.
	It's not like I can build in delivery.
	So I was searching while I was working there for a shift of something really that I could do.
	And that's when I landed on programming.
	Yeah, okay.
	That makes sense.
	Philosophy and programming kind of go hand-in-hand.
	All right.
	Okay, and what's your dating history?
	Um, I... I've had three girlfriends in my life.
	I didn't lose my virginity until I was 30.
	So that sort of, you know, it was definitely not an easy path there.
	I haven't had a relationship over six months.
	The first one ended amicably.
	No, no, sorry.
	The first one, well, it ended amicably, but the cause of the breakup was not an amicable event.
	It was going well, quote-unquote.
	I mean, like I said, it was within six months that all this happened.
	So we dated, we met, and eventually everything was going superb.
	And then there was one really bad day.
	Where she threw this huge tantrum.
	I don't even remember what it was about at this point.
	But in that moment, I couldn't unsee it.
	And I just knew we had to break up.
	So it was a mutual decision.
	We shook hands and said goodbye.
	Sorry, this is when you were 30?
	Yes, yes, 30.
	Okay, why do you think it took until you were 30, which is like almost 15 years after you're supposed to, or typically people would start at least trying to ask girls that.
	Why do you think it took until you were, and it's not a criticism, I'm just curious, right?
	Why do you think it took until you were 32?
	Thank you, yeah.
	If I had to answer you, I mean, I spent a lot of time in the friend zone.
	And that's, I just mean...
	That I was let on, I believe, in my opinion.
	Sorry, so there's all these details I don't know about.
	Okay, so you spent a lot of time in the friend zone.
	Why did you choose to do that?
	Because the way that you get out of the friend zone is you ask the girl if she wants to go on a date, and if she says no, you stop being her friend.
	It's not complicated.
	I'm not saying it's easy, but it's not complicated.
	You're not chained somewhere.
	Yeah, it was ignorance.
	I didn't know that that was the way.
	I know that now.
	But in the moment, we were going all sorts of places, and I just sort of interpreted them as dates in a way.
	In my brain, I don't know.
	It was dumb.
	I don't have a good excuse.
	No, it's not dumb.
	I mean, it's a dating strategy.
	To keep being nice and fun and enjoyable to spend time with around the girl until she falls for you.
	I mean, it's just another dating strategy, but you do have to have a cut-off date, right?
	Yes, correct.
	Okay, got it.
	Okay, so tell me a little bit about your early childhood, your family, and so on.
	Sure.
	My parents are still together.
	They've been together all my life.
	I was an only child until age 11, so I have an 11-year-old younger sister.
	I think, for the most part, I was treated well.
	For the most part, I was spanked.
	But very rarely, maybe twice in my whole childhood.
	I remember having a temper as a kid, but also being very extroverted, very animated.
	To contrast my later years of introversion, and now I'm kind of becoming extroverted again.
	But when I was a kid, I was very animated, very passionate, funny.
	Entertainment and temper, just a lot of energy.
	I made friends quickly.
	I had a couple of childhood friends I would ride bikes with.
	I was super active.
	Climb trees, basketball every day, super soakers, the kind of suburban life like in the movies.
	We're like middle-lower class.
	Sorry, lower middle class.
	I'm getting my term just confused.
	We were stable, but not well off, nor struggling.
	We're just pretty average.
	We didn't move.
	That's where I'm from.
	Oh, come on, man.
	you've listened to enough call-in shows to know that you need to stay off names and places, right?
	Um, yeah, I, um, That's fine.
	I can delete it.
	But yeah, just do me a favor and stay up in the places.
	Okay, and did your parents take a great deal of pleasure in your company?
	Did they seek you out?
	Did they enjoy spending time with you?
	Yes, all of the above.
	And why do you think you went from extroverted to introverted?
	Hmm.
	Thank you.
	Um...
	My knee-jerk reaction would just be to say socialization.
	I think I lost my temper.
	So I did get into a fight when I was in middle school.
	And I got ISS. And it was the most powerful...
	Sorry, what is ISS? Oh, I'm sorry.
	In-school suspension.
	So it was like a good...
	Yeah, exactly.
	Oh, you know, I... You know, I was a good, you know, quote-unquote goody, and kind of still am, but kind of a goody-goody.
	I never really had, like, a rebellious phase or anything.
	So when that moment happened, it was, like, shocking.
	And I think I really took it to heart that I shouldn't be so, like, animated or whatever.
	So I'm speculating here.
	The story's all over the place.
	You got into a fight, therefore you shouldn't be so animated.
	I don't follow that logic.
	You've spent a lot of time alone, haven't you?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so you're not used to, because all these things are clear in your head, right?
	And you're not used to explaining things to others, which is fine.
	But I don't understand the logic of, I got into a fight, I got a suspension, socialization, therefore I stopped being so animated and became introverted.
	None of that hangs together for me in any coherent way.
	And just, you know, be patient and go over it in a bit more detail.
	Sure.
	Help me make the connections.
	I apologize.
	So, by animated, I mean like...
	Like acting on my passions without thinking things through or staying calm.
	And when you don't have that...
	Well, hang on.
	That's not animated.
	That's impulsive.
	Okay.
	I'm sorry.
	I misused the term.
	So impulsive, I guess, is what I meant.
	Oh, so it's something like you were impulsive and then your impulsivity had you hit a kid, you got an ISS and then you wanted to become less impulsive.
	Yeah.
	Yes, that's a good way of saying it.
	Okay, I understand.
	So why did you hit the kid?
	He was a friend of mine, or at least I thought at the time.
	And I showed him a basketball card.
	I collected basketball cards.
	And I showed him a rare Michael Jordan card that I picked up in a basketball pack or whatever.
	And he asked to see it.
	And as a friend, of course, I'm going to let him see it.
	So I took it out of my little binder.
	That holds cards, and I showed it to him.
	He looked at me, and he ripped it in half.
	And then I just lost it.
	Yeah, I understand that.
	Okay, I get that.
	I get that.
	I mean, he destroyed very valuable property of yours.
	Absolutely, yeah.
	So, you got a suspension.
	What did your parents say?
	And how old were you?
	This would be...
	I think...
	Just roughly.
	I don't know the exact age.
	Okay, like fifth grade.
	So that's 12?
	11?
	Yeah, that's about 11 or 12.
	Okay, so we have nothing of your childhood, really, except your parents enjoyed your company, you got spanked twice, and you were extroverted.
	So you were spanked.
	How did your parents deal with when you would do things they didn't like or disapproved of?
	It was time outs, a stern talking to, there were arguments.
	I would act a certain way and try and justify it and then I would be made to understand that I was wrong and to think about it.
	Things like that.
	Okay, got it.
	And how often would these disagreements occur?
	I would say minimum once a month.
	Okay, and did your mother stay home?
	Some years, yes.
	Some years, no.
	She, uh...
	My dad stayed at the same job for many years during that time, but my mom had some career changes.
	Some years she was at home, and some years she was off away.
	You mean at work, right?
	Not away away?
	At work, yes, sir.
	Yeah.
	And how long did she stay home after you were born?
	Well, that's, I actually don't know the amount.
	No, that's fine.
	You may not know.
	Okay.
	And how did you know that your parents, and I'm not disagreeing with you, of course, right, but how did you know that your parents enjoyed your company?
	Yeah, just, you know, we snuggled, you know, when I was a kid, and they took me places.
	They took me and my friends' places.
	We had Sleepovers.
	They were friends with the neighbors.
	Get-togethers were encouraged.
	They let me and my friends get together a lot.
	I was given a lot of freedom playing outside and stuff.
	Most days were pleasant.
	I had no reason to think I wasn't Appreciate it.
	Well, but none of that, and again, I'm not disagreeing with you, but none of what you said is your parents seeking out your company, but rather accommodating your preferences to play with friends or go outside.
	I see.
	Yeah, there were family events, too.
	I mean, you're right.
	I mean, they might have had to take me here and there, but I... Yeah, I guess...
	I don't know.
	I guess...
	When I would spend time with them, I always figured it was because they wanted to.
	I wasn't really mulling over any ulterior motives.
	And when I look back, I don't have any suspicion that they weren't enthusiastic.
	I feel like I'm not answering you, but good.
	No, that's a good bunch of baffle gap.
	I don't know what any of that means.
	Well, so examples would be, you know, let's go for a hike and we'll chat or let's play Monopoly.
	And, you know, my daughter and I have these, like, we used to have these, like, two-week Monopoly games that we would be dying to continue.
	And, you know, just really enjoying your company.
	You know, they find you interesting.
	They want to know what you think and feel.
	They enjoy your jokes.
	They, you know, just take delight in your presence.
	Yeah, I mean, all of the above.
	We played board games.
	We did all that.
	We didn't have a regular schedule, like you mentioned.
	But here and there, there would be a lot of family events, like watch movies, you know, events and stuff.
	Okay, but family events and watching movies is not your parents seeking out your company.
	So I was trying to piggyback off the examples you gave, which all of the above Okay, so if your parents really enjoy your company, and obviously they take great delight in you and so on, then how could you end up with a friend who would have mutilated a prized possession of yours?
	I'm trying to sort of figure that one out.
	Like, that's a bit of a psycho friend, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay, so how did you not see, or how did your parents not see that you had a psycho friend?
	Yeah.
	Because parents are supposed to vet your friendships.
	They're supposed to model, you know, good behavior.
	I mean, so how did you end up with a friend who was so nasty that he tore up your baseball card?
	Oh, your basketball card.
	Sorry.
	Yeah, I don't know, honestly.
	I didn't...
	Like, in my child brain, I was thinking...
	Like, he had never shown any...
	Not that I was attuned to red flags at that age or anything, but I had never seen anything like that kind of behavior at all.
	Okay, hang on, hang on.
	Come on, man.
	Are you saying that a kid is capable of that level of horrifying cruelty and meanness, but there was absolutely zero evidence of any dysfunction beforehand?
	No, I didn't mean to say that.
	What I meant to say is that I could pick up on as a child.
	Looking back, what did you see in your friend that you wish you had picked up on?
	Um.
	A kind of apathy.
	Um.
	Thank you.
	Forgive me, it has been a little while.
	But from what I remember, I just remember the way he looked at me right before he tore the guard.
	No, I'm not talking about right before.
	There's no such thing as a red flag right before.
	Sorry.
	Do you know anything about his...
	Look, I had some pretty sketchy friends over the course of my childhood, but I never had a friend who would do anything like that.
	That's horrifying.
	Right.
	That's purely sadistic, right?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Okay, so this guy is a sadist as a kid.
	Yes.
	So I'm trying to understand, did your parents know him?
	I don't think, I don't, they may have encountered him once or twice.
	He was primarily a school friend.
	Okay.
	And he had been a friend for how long?
	Just like a year or two, but not like intimate.
	Like we were just school friends and Maybe there'd be an overlapping group event here or there.
	We weren't close.
	But, you know, we weren't not close either.
	Just like school friends, basically.
	Okay.
	It doesn't sound like we're going to get very far with this topic of the conversation.
	So let's move on to when you got into puberty and you started getting interested in girls.
	So how did your parents prepare you for the dating world and talk to you about what to look out for and so on?
	There was no talk.
	Why not?
	It's pretty important, isn't it?
	Why was there no talk?
	Yeah.
	I mean, did they just expect you to figure out dating and kissing and who to vet for and who to go for and to make sure you didn't just go for looks and to look for quality of character?
	Like, dating is a pretty big and complicated thing, right?
	So, obviously, they were able to navigate dating all right.
	So, I mean, it's incomprehensible to me that parents wouldn't talk to their kids about dating.
	Yeah, I mean, uh, it definitely, there was no formal talk about it, that's for sure.
	Okay, come on, man.
	Are you weasel-wording me?
	What does a formal talk mean?
	Like, there was never, um, a briefing, or a chat, or...
	First you said they didn't talk to you, and now you're saying there's no formal talk.
	I don't know what that means.
	What's the difference?
	Uh...
	No, formal or otherwise, there was never any...
	Okay, so formal is a red herring.
	Deliberate...
	What was that?
	Sorry.
	The word formal, then, is a red herring.
	Which is fine.
	I'm just trying to be efficient in our conversation, right?
	Because when you say, they didn't talk to me about it, and then you say, well, there was no formal talk, I don't know what the word formal means.
	Yeah, maybe the word deliberate is better.
	Okay, hang on.
	If you say there's no deliberate talk, then I don't know what, compared to what?
	Like, is there a non-deliberative talk?
	Is there an informal talk as opposed to a formal talk?
	It just gets confusing.
	I apologize.
	Let me try again.
	No, just did they talk to you about dating?
	Yeah.
	No.
	Okay, that's all I need.
	Then don't put in caveats like formal and so on, right?
	And conscious, because that's confusing.
	Okay, so they didn't talk to you about dating, and why not?
	Well, the short answer is I don't know.
	But you do know.
	I mean, you're pushing 40.
	I assume you're still in contact with your parents, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, so you've known your parents for 40 years.
	So, if you don't know them, nobody can be known.
	I have a guess.
	Okay, let's hear the guess.
	My guess would be, it's like you suggested earlier, that it just, like, sad to say, but I think it was just, they were under the assumption that I would just pick it up.
	Well, but that's not an assumption any parent can afford to make.
	Because if you're wrong, your kid is screwed.
	He ends up dating some psycho.
	He ends up being, you know, he could get a girl pregnant.
	He could get a stalker.
	He could get an STD. Like, you can't take that, right?
	As, yeah, you know, let's just roll the dice.
	I'm sure he'll figure it out.
	Like, parents can't do that, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	You could get exploited.
	You could get your heart broken really badly.
	Like, there could be any number of terrible things, right?
	Absolutely.
	I mean, that's like pushing a kid with no helmet down a rocky hill on a bike and saying he'll figure it out.
	That's not good parenting.
	True.
	I think if I had to elaborate that it was going to be a kind of reactive thing, like they would see who I was dating and then make an observation and I would, I think the assumption was I would come to them if there was like But they weren't going to take a lead on guiding me.
	That's my best guess on it.
	Okay, but they screwed up, right?
	Because you didn't date.
	You didn't date until you were 30.
	Right.
	So they have a theory, let's say that your guess is accurate.
	I don't think it is, but let's say that it is.
	So they have a theory that if they don't talk to you about dating, it's going to work out.
	Yes, that's true.
	So why the ever-loving hell did they leave it for 15 years since it wasn't working without talking to you about it?
	It's an open...
	Yeah, I mean...
	I mean, it's the biggest disaster in your life, isn't it?
	Certainly a candidate.
	Okay, what's bigger?
	Have they talked to you about your weight?
	Did they talk to you about your career?
	How have you been parented?
	Um.
	All fair questions.
	Yeah, I mean, as far as career, it was You know, we want you to do what you want to do, but just make sure you get a degree.
	That was to sum up their position on that.
	Yeah, not a lot of proactive parents.
	Okay, what was the proactive?
	You say not a lot.
	I assume some.
	so what did you get that was proactive?
	Um Yeah, tough to come up with specifics Um Thank you.
	A lot of the...
	Yeah, I don't have a clear answer for you that's coming to mind.
	I have some guesses.
	Well, no, because you said there wasn't a lot, right?
	Right, right.
	Right, so that's, again, kind of confusing, right?
	Because a lot, say there wasn't a lot, right?
	If I say I don't have a lot of cars, then clearly I'm saying I have some cars, right?
	Right.
	I just don't have a lot of cars.
	And then if I say, if somebody says, well, how many cars do you have?
	And I say, well, I don't know.
	It's confusing, right?
	Right, right.
	Okay, have they talked to you about your weight?
	I mean, they must have noticed, I assume you see them from time to time, so they must have noticed that you were packing on the pounds, right?
	Yes, and it was mentioned, but again, it was sort of with a Do you know that we know, that you know?
	Like, what?
	You know, you're gaining weight.
	Yeah, so they say, you're gaining weight, and what's happening, and what's going on, and right, how can we help, and is there, you know, you said it was emotional eating, so I assume your parents talked to you about that, or are they themselves overweight?
	Yes.
	Oh, they are, okay.
	So did they give you warnings and say, don't end up like us, and here's what we did wrong, and so on?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So did they say don't have emotional eating?
	No.
	Okay.
	Okay, so what did they say to warn you about how they ended up fat?
	Very standard, straightforward things like just watch what you eat and so on, but...
	Watch what you eat?
	That's it?
	Yeah.
	Oh my God.
	Come on, man.
	Watch what you eat.
	What does that mean?
	In terms of...
	How is that practical?
	What are you supposed to do about that?
	It didn't work, did it?
	No.
	Okay, so did they ever notice that their advice was about as useful as tits on a ball, and say, well, clearly that...
	Like, they had this theory, maybe, that you're just going to figure out dating, which you didn't, right?
	You're 40, you've never had a real relationship...
	True.
	So that didn't work, and you're gaining weight, and they say, watch what you eat, but you're still overweight, so that didn't work, so...
	Did they just hand you these fucking fortune cookies and go on their merry way?
	Um, yes.
	When you put it that way, yes.
	Okay.
	It was with the understanding that they would be available for support any time, but I think they kind of just expected me to...
	Do the practical implementation of it.
	Yeah, I don't know what that means.
	So...
	Just that...
	No, no, I don't.
	Please, you've got to stop explaining things to me because it doesn't usually help.
	So...
	Okay.
	Have they ever talked to you about your dating life?
	Not often, but yes.
	Okay, and what have they said about your dating life?
	Did they say anything in your teens?
	Yes.
	Just...
	Again, I'm sorry, I feel like when I explain things, they're not sufficient, so I'm like, on the...
	No, no, the reason I say don't explain things is your explanations are just justifications, and they're foggy and confusing.
	So, I just want to know what they said.
	Like, you don't have to explain, right?
	Right, like if I say, oh, what did Jenny say about Bob, right?
	Oh, Bob's great.
	Okay, then just, oh, she said Bob's great, right?
	So I just need a report of what they said.
	So in your teens, what did they say to you about dating?
	What did they say?
	Are there any girls you like?
	Have you asked any girls out?
	Do you plan to ask any girls out?
	What kind of dates would you take the girls on?
	You know, is there anything you could work out to make yourself more attractive?
	Is the girl you like that you feel rejected, right?
	Here's how to avoid the friend zone, which every man knows about, right?
	So these are just questions that they would ask you about your dating life.
	I mean, I don't know what they would be, but it might be something like that in your teens.
	I would say...
	99% no, but there was one situation where they had noticed I took an interest in a girl, like a fellow violin student, and I talked to them about it and they talked with me about it.
	What did they say?
	I asked what I should do, how I should approach it.
	They advised, it was back in the landline days, so just calling...
	I had to speak to her mom.
	You know, how do I put this?
	Where do I go?
	We decided on a movie.
	We kind of worked out that one date.
	But aside from that...
	Well, hang on, hang on.
	So you asked the girl out, and she went to the movie with you, right?
	Yes.
	Okay?
	And your parents were helpful with that, right?
	Yeah.
	Fantastic.
	So your parents know now not to be reactive, but to be proactive and help you.
	Because it worked, right?
	Yes.
	I would say, though, and I'm sorry to be difficult, but that was only, like, one time out of, like, my whole...
	I know!
	That's my problem!
	Okay.
	That's my problem!
	Yeah.
	So the time they helped you, you got a date.
	Then did they ever help you again?
	No.
	Okay.
	What happened?
	You went to the movie.
	Did you ask the girl out again?
	No.
	Uh, no, because it didn't go well.
	Oh, okay.
	You didn't like her.
	And it was mutual.
	Yeah, we didn't like each other.
	Okay.
	So then your parents are like, hey, you know, we've helped you get a date.
	Let's talk to you more.
	What did you think you liked about her?
	Was it just that she was pretty, but you didn't like her personality?
	Like, what changed?
	Yeah, when I got back, I definitely, we definitely talked about why it didn't go well.
	Why didn't it go well?
	Yeah, so...
	Well, first of all, I was very nervous, but I would say we were both very quiet, and I would, you know, as a naturally quiet person at that time, I was, like, really putting in a lot of effort to start conversations.
	Sorry, how old were you when you went on the date?
	Um...
	18?
	17, I think?
	Something like that.
	Okay.
	A little bit late in the game for a first date, but, you know, survivable, right?
	Okay, so you wanted to go out on a date with the girl, but then you found yourself tongue-tied, so your parents must have known that you were kind of shy, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So if you are a parent to a shy child, what do you do to help them with that?
	On the date, you'd say, okay, here's some things you can talk about.
	Here's some topics you might not want to talk about.
	Be sure to ask her.
	You can ask her about this, that, the other, and so on, right?
	So they would give you some help with regards to topics that you could talk about on a date so that you might not feel so awkward, right?
	Because they're your parents and they want you to be happy.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so did they help coach you on things to talk about on the date?
	No.
	Okay, so then since they knew you were shy and they didn't help you with topics to talk about on the date, they're kind of setting you up for failure, aren't they?
	That makes sense.
	Okay, so why are they setting you up for failure?
	Yeah.
	Why are they encouraging a shy man to go on a date without giving him any coaching on what to talk about?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Why do you think?
	Um, that I would grow from it.
	What do you mean you'd grow?
	You'd grow from having a disastrous first date in your life?
	How the fuck are you going to grow from that?
	I guess they...
	I'm playing devil's advocate here.
	I assume like...
	Okay.
	Sorry to be annoying.
	But no, why...
	So, you're single, and you're almost 40, and your parents have done nothing to help you date, really, right?
	Right.
	That means your parents want you to be single.
	Understood.
	Okay, so why do they want you to be single?
	I don't know.
	I can't...
	I don't know.
	I've never honestly asked myself that question.
	I... I don't see any reason.
	I don't know.
	They're together.
	I mean, I'm honestly at a loss.
	I don't know why.
	Do you live close to them?
	Yes.
	And do you see them a lot?
	Yes.
	Well, that's probably why.
	They want you to be around, to keep them company.
	Do you mean like codependency?
	I mean, I don't really want to put a label on it because that could mean different things to different people.
	Okay.
	Okay, are they very happy with each other?
	Oh, yeah.
	And they really enjoy each other's company?
	Yes.
	How often a week are you over there?
	Or do they visit you?
	Um...
	Well, right at this moment, I'm actually staying with them.
	You're staying with your parents?
	Yes.
	Like you're living with them?
	Yes.
	Why are you almost 40 and living with your parents?
	Yeah, I know how this sounds, given our conversation.
	It's just a long story.
	They're having medical issues, and I wanted to save money.
	Okay, so they want you to take care of them?
	Yes.
	And when did you move in?
	A little, around a year ago.
	And before that, you were living close, right?
	Four hours away, yes.
	Oh, four hours away.
	So you wouldn't see them very often, right?
	Yeah, just for here and there, yeah.
	Okay.
	Now, have your parents talked about the fact that you're living with your parents is probably going to mean that you're probably kind of undateable?
	Yes, they did mention that.
	Okay.
	So, why would they...
	and they're also aware, I assume, that your time is very much running out.
	Yes.
	I mean...
	I think there's nuance to that, but I'll...
	No, I'm all for the nuance.
	Tell me the nuance.
	Well, um...
	I don't...
	I think...
	In my opinion, I would say that my time...
	That I still have some time left, but it's not...
	Okay, how much time do you have left?
	Yeah, I don't...
	I can't...
	I don't know.
	It is tight.
	For sure, but it doesn't feel like I'm right on the precipice.
	I'm just rambling, so I'd rather not.
	I don't want to waste your time.
	So you're almost 40.
	At what age do you think it becomes pretty much impossible to have a wife and some kids and so on?
	Yeah, great question.
	Yeah, I don't have a specific...
	I was just...
	Okay, let's work backwards.
	Are you too old at 80?
	What's that?
	Are you too old when you're 80?
	For what?
	Okay, what do you think we're talking about here?
	What was my question?
	What's that?
	What was my question?
	Like, how much time do I think I have?
	Right.
	Are you too old to have a wife and children at 80?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	What about 70?
	Yes.
	60?
	Probably.
	All right.
	50?
	More okay, but very tight.
	Okay.
	Why is it tight?
	Tell me what the problem is at 50.
	Let's say you want, say, two kids.
	Yeah, I mean, there's physical degradation.
	Yeah, your sperm is getting older, you're getting older, you're getting creaky, and you're going to need a woman probably 20 years younger.
	Right, right.
	That's a good point, yeah.
	right?
	And you're going to want an intelligent woman who's capable and competent and moral and, you know, reasonably attractive and so on, right?
	And then why the hell would she go for your half-century ass?
	Good point.
	Also, right now you're 40 and you have virtually no experience in relationships.
	Sure.
	And you have no experience in any reasonably successful relationship.
	Sure.
	So if you were a manager, right, and you were hiring someone who'd only had a couple of jobs for a couple of months over the past 25 years, would you think that person would be any good in the workforce? .
	No.
	You have no skills!
	True.
	To have and sustain a romantic relationship.
	And you'll have fewer skills relative to your age when you're 50.
	Uh-huh.
	Right now, you'd have to get a woman 10 years younger, and if she has no experience in relationships, and you have no experience in relationships, how's it going to work?
	True.
	I see your point.
	The women that you dated, did they have experience with successful relationships, like, I don't know, at least a couple of years in the past?
	Yes, two of them did, yes.
	Okay, so two of them had had successful relationships of a couple of years, right?
	Yes.
	And how long did those relationships last with you?
	Well, ironically, the most recent one had had a nine-year ex, but that one only lasted a few months, even though we knew each other for...
	A few years before that.
	So she was able to sustain a nine-year relationship with another man, but she couldn't do more than a couple of months with you.
	Yes.
	why not because it became apparent that um she wanted it to be casual um And there were arguments.
	And then we just...
	We had a bad break.
	Quote, unquote.
	Okay, so she didn't want a serious relationship with you.
	She wanted it to be casual?
	Yeah, it was sort of on the fence, like, ambiguous.
	Okay, so why didn't she want a serious relationship with you?
	How old was she?
	She was 39 when I was 35.
	What?
	The fuck are you dating a woman pushing 40 if you want a wife and kids?
	Sorry, I'm a little confused.
	Can you help me out?
	No, I mean, that's an irrational thing.
	Okay, did your parents say, no, you can't date a woman who's pushing 40 if you want a wife and kids?
	No, but...
	Did they know you were dating a woman who was pushing 40 and you want wife and kids?
	I don't understand.
	Why would they say something?
	I'm trying to tell you.
	I'm sorry.
	It happened very quickly.
	It was like a whirlwind kind of thing.
	It was just a few months.
	I hadn't even expressed much to my parents about it.
	No one really knew.
	It was dramatic from beginning to end in good ways and bad.
	So I was sort of caught up in it.
	It happened very quickly and it ended very quickly.
	So there was never really much time for anything to solidify.
	It was very nebulous and foggy and situationship-y.
	It was just not a good thing.
	Okay, so you got involved in a dramatic, I guess, kind of hysterical relationship.
	So isn't that exactly when you'd need your parents the most?
	This is almost like saying, my illness was too bad, I couldn't go see the doctor.
	It's like, well, if your illness is bad, isn't that exactly when you go see the doctor?
	Very, very true.
	I did talk to them about it, but only at the end, when it got really bad.
	Okay.
	So wouldn't you talk...
	Oh, go ahead.
	Would you say that you're close to your parents?
	I would say so.
	Okay, so why wouldn't you tell them?
	How long had it been since your last relationship?
	Was it 30 to 35?
	The last one was actually, I think, two years before that.
	So like, 30, 32, 33, and then 35 were like my three relationships.
	Okay.
	So you had a bunch of failed relationships, and your parents have a successful relationship.
	So, they would be good people to go to for advice, right?
	Right.
	So why wouldn't you go to them for advice and say, well, I really like this girl.
	It seems a little chaotic.
	Can you help me out?
	Yeah, that's true.
	I, again, I would say two things.
	First, that I was definitely just like caught up in the excitement and there was really, I didn't have a symptom.
	Like you used your doctor analogy.
	I didn't have any symptoms at first, so I didn't even.
	I thought it was all going well.
	Well, that's exactly when you talk to your parents, right?
	You'd say, man, I just met this girl.
	It's fantastic.
	I think she could be the one.
	I love her to death or whatever.
	You'd be enthusiastic and you'd talk to your parents about it.
	True, but I did not.
	I was sort of doing it on my own.
	I didn't...
	No, but why wouldn't you want to share your good fortune as you felt at the time with your parents?
	I think because I knew that there's like a puppy love stage when you first meet, but I didn't really know her that well, so I didn't really feel safe.
	She was so new, you know?
	I didn't feel comfortable making that introduction just yet.
	Well, I don't know about introducing her to your parents, but you talked to your parents, and didn't you say that you were dating?
	I'm sorry.
	Yeah, by introduction, I just meant, like, introducing that she's in my life.
	You know, to just talk about it.
	That's what I meant.
	Sorry.
	Okay, that's fine.
	Yeah.
	So, but why would you hide that you're dating?
	I mean, I assume you talked to your parents.
	Did you just not tell your parents that you're dating?
	No, I would.
	In that case, I guess you could say I was kind of vetting.
	So, I didn't know for sure whether this was going to stick or not, or what even it was at first.
	So, I didn't want to, like, Bring it up and create some start.
	Like, I didn't even know, I didn't know her very well at the time.
	And so there was really nothing that I could, that would be productive to talk about even because I didn't know what I was even having.
	Sorry, but you don't, you don't make that decision for other people.
	Like you don't make the decision while it's not productive to talk to you about it, right?
	You, you share what's going on in your life and you let, you let them make that decision.
	That's fair.
	I would imagine that given that your parents had been spectacularly not helpful in the past, and maybe you suspected them unconsciously of sabotaging or not helping you with your relationships, that you kept it from them because you didn't want any negative feedback they might consciously or unconsciously provide.
	I think that's definitely possible, but it would be unconscious on my part.
	Yeah, that's fine.
	But there's a reason why, if you say that you're close to people and you're falling head over heels in passion with some woman, you talk to them about it.
	You wouldn't hide it from them.
	I agree.
	Very true.
	So you're not that close.
	Again, my feelings for this person, while there was an amazing attraction, There was also an uncertainty.
	Right!
	That's why you talk to people!
	Oh, yeah.
	Uncertainty is I need an outside eye.
	Right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	That's true.
	So, you're not that close.
	What about the girl when you were 32?
	Or the woman, I guess, when you were 32.
	How old is she?
	She was my age, same age.
	Okay, and what happened with that relationship?
	So...
	Well, how long did it last?
	About six months.
	Okay, and how did that end?
	We ended on good terms.
	I ended it...
	We had gone on some dates, and she...
	There was this moment that she exclaimed something in a store.
	I don't even remember what the word was, but it was kind of like erratic behavior.
	And there were a couple instances like that.
	I don't know what you're talking about.
	She exclaimed something in a store that was erratic behavior?
	How on earth am I supposed to know what that means?
	I'm just saying what happened.
	No, you're not saying what happened.
	I don't know what happened.
	She exclaimed something.
	It was erratic.
	I don't know what that means.
	I'm sorry.
	You don't have to apologize.
	As I say, you spend a lot of time alone, and you're not used to communicating these things to people, but I don't know what you mean.
	So, we would be walking around a mall-type area, and...
	Walking next to each other, and then all of a sudden she would yell something in a store, like a quiet store, and draw attention.
	and what would she yell?
	Um, just like ooze and oz.
	Oh, she'd address it.
	She'd get really excited.
	Yeah, but...
	Like, very oddly.
	Like, that would draw stairs, you know?
	So, I don't know.
	Imitate to me.
	What did she do?
	Just like, oh, like, oh, you know, like, oh, like, like, kind of like, we own the place and there's nobody else nearby and she's just feeling completely, uh, 100% empowered to just scream at the top of her lungs.
	Okay, she's screaming at the top of her lungs at a store?
	Does she have Tourette's?
	I don't understand.
	Not in like a rage way, but like in an enthusiastic way.
	Okay, give me an imitation.
	Like, what would she sound like?
	Louder than that, but it's just like, you know.
	Yeah, I mean, I don't.
	I can't do an imitation.
	I mean, it's just a loud yell of enthusiasm towards something that peaked her.
	Like sex noises in Claire's or something.
	Okay.
	So, and how long into the relationship did she make these sounds?
	Like five months.
	Oh, so she was fine for five months and then she started screaming in stores.
	Yeah, basically.
	And did you ask her why she did that?
	uh yes but i don't i don't remember what she told me to be honest i i was like what what what you know what's and she just acted like you know just happy as a pig in mud you I don't know.
	We never got to the root of it.
	I mean, she admitted that she did it, but she just said, well, I'm enthusiastic?
	Yeah, something to that effect.
	And was there anything else that was troublesome to you?
	Yeah.
	She had a very inconsistent...
	Slash odd employment history of going job to job at the job that she was at.
	There was a lot of drama that she would be a part of.
	And there would be a lot of time spent talking about that.
	That was energy draining.
	She had this cat which would get out of her apartment.
	And we'd have to go on a search party to look for it.
	And this happened almost every time I was there, probably 20 times in the time that we were seeing each other.
	It was just very strange.
	I never owned a pet growing up, so I don't think that's normal.
	I saw it as irresponsible.
	So there were just things like that that kind of added up, and then I was just like, I'm going to break up.
	She didn't flip out or anything like my first girlfriend did.
	She seemed sad, but she understood and we left on good terms.
	We didn't hate each other at the end, but it was a sad, bittersweet parting, but I don't regret it.
	Sorry, regret what?
	What's that?
	What don't you regret?
	Oh, I don't regret.
	I don't regret it.
	No, what don't you regret?
	I don't know what you mean.
	Are you referring to dating or breaking up?
	I don't regret breaking up with her.
	You don't regret breaking up with her?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Now, do you know why, have you figured out why you choose women that you don't like?
	That's a funny question.
	You know, it's a good question.
	It's the most important question, isn't it?
	Because if you keep wasting your time dating women you don't like, you're going to spend the rest of your life alone.
	Yeah, agreed.
	So that's a pretty important question, isn't it?
	Definitely.
	Okay, so what if you got?
	Yeah, I guess I don't have a talent for recognizing signals, maybe, that...
	No, that's not a talent thing.
	A skill that you develop...
	No, no, no.
	Why do you choose women you don't like?
	It's not a skill or talent or magic or, you know...
	I guess I just wasn't born six foot six or with a great operatic singing voice.
	You've listened to this show for 20 years.
	I've talked about it about a zillion times, right?
	Have you read my book on relationships at all?
	Oh, real-time relationships?
	Yes.
	Okay, great.
	So then you know that love is our involuntary response to virtue if we're virtuous, right?
	So do you choose virtuous women?
	No.
	Why don't you choose virtuous women?
	I would say I probably aren't seeing them for who they really are, but probably who I would want them to be.
	um I mean, I don't...
	I mean, it's true.
	It doesn't...
	I'm just saying, like, I don't...
	You know, in the case of the third one, the kind of psycho, like the one that ended badly, you know, we sort of bounced off each other.
	Okay, first of all, all relationships that end, end badly.
	There's no good end to a relationship, right?
	Because you've invested time and effort and energy and then you wasted it all, right?
	And worse than wasted it, now you've got to recover from it, you're a little heartbroken, you're a little scarred, you're a little jumpy, right?
	So, okay, but you're saying this one had a really bunny-boiler dramatic exit, right?
	Right.
	Okay, so how did this one end again?
	Yeah, that one, yeah, she one day just found somebody else out of the blue.
	So she just dumped you and went with another guy?
	Exactly, yes.
	And why do you think she did that?
	I don't think she liked me.
	Bye.
	Thank you.
	I mean, I'm not trying to be a smart ass, and that probably goes without saying.
	You know, because she did that, she doesn't like me.
	Did she like you more and then like you less over time?
	It's hard to say, but that would have to be accurate.
	Okay.
	And what did she grow to dislike in you?
	Probably that I wanted to spend more time.
	I wouldn't say, in my opinion, I would say that I'm not a clingy person.
	But when we would get together, which was only once a week, she had a busy career.
	And I had a career too.
	We had agreed on once a week, a Saturday.
	But a couple of Saturdays, she had made other plans.
	And it's sort of, you know, I would check in on Wednesday if we're still going to be on.
	How long did you go out for?
	Just like two months.
	Two months, and you only get together once a week, and sometimes she didn't even show up to that.
	So what did you have, like six dates?
	Yeah, like less than that, like five.
	Five dates?
	But we were formerly co-workers.
	We weren't dating as co-workers, but we had known each other for two years prior to that.
	Oh, so you had a lot of time to vet each other?
	Yes.
	And you go on five dates, and then she dumps you for another guy?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So what did you miss?
	A lot.
	Um...
	Thank you.
	I missed...
	I guess I misunderstood...
	Her initial enthusiasm and passion at the beginning for...
	That's understood.
	Okay, I don't know what any of that means.
	Okay, so how long into the two-year working relationship did you decide you wanted to date her?
	It was after that.
	There was a period of time we didn't speak because she left.
	There was like a four-month period.
	And then after that, we reconnected.
	And then that's when it started.
	Okay, so in the whatever, however many, year and a half or whatever, in the time that you worked together with her, you weren't attracted to her and you didn't want to date her?
	Is that right?
	Yeah, I thought of her as a co-worker.
	I honestly didn't have thoughts like that.
	She was my superior, indirectly.
	And, you know, it was just a co-worker relationship.
	That's it.
	So you weren't attracted to her?
	I knew she was pretty, but I didn't, you know, like, yeah, I was attracted to her, but I didn't think, I didn't act on it in any way.
	We were co-workers, you know, so I put it out of my mind, and I honestly never thought about it, honestly, during that time.
	I was attracted to her.
	I put it out of my mind.
	I never thought about it.
	Like, I never thought about it.
	Does that make any sense to you?
	I'm sorry.
	I'm trying to be clear.
	No, you're not.
	I mean, do you know that your stories don't really hang together very well?
	I guess not.
	It's not a big criticism.
	I'm just curious.
	You just say stuff and it doesn't connect to what you just said.
	It's like when you said, oh yeah, I'm close to my parents.
	Well, I didn't tell them about this woman I was dating.
	Well, I was attracted to her, but I put it out of my mind and I never thought about her.
	Like, you just say things in the moment that don't...
	Hang together, right?
	Like you say, oh, my parents really sought out my company, and it's like, well, yeah, they let me play with friends, and then we rented movies, and there were family, but that's not seeking out your...
	So the things that you say are kind of like scattered in don't hang together.
	They don't logically have cohesion, if that makes sense.
	Like, I really want a wife and kids, but I'll date an unstable woman who's 39.
	Right.
	I'm close to my parents, but I hide that I'm dating.
	I understand the criticism.
	I mean, it's not a criticism.
	I'm just pointing out a fact.
	That's fair.
	That it's hard to get to know you and your life because there's just all these contradictions that I alone seem to be noticing.
	Right.
	Which is not particularly great because if you study a philosophy show for almost 20 years and you study philosophy in university and you're a computer programmer, aren't you supposed to figure out contradictions and inconsistencies?
	Thanks.
	Yes.
	So what, I mean, I'm genuinely curious.
	I'm genuinely curious here, right?
	There's no criticism here.
	I'm genuine.
	Like, what do you think is going on?
	Um, I can...
	I have theories, but I feel like I'm falling into a bunch of traps or something.
	I don't know what you mean by traps now.
	You think I'm setting traps or something?
	It's a fair demand, but my perception is that You have a high standard for precision in language.
	I just don't want contradictions three times in three sentences.
	Or sometimes three times in the same sentence.
	That's not a very high standard, is it?
	When you put it like that, definitely not.
	Okay, and I'll just give you the example, right?
	So you said you'd worked together with this woman for two years, and then she said she went away for four months, she came back, and then things started, right?
	And I said, were you attracted?
	And you said, no, she was just a co-worker.
	Well, I knew that she was pretty, but I didn't think of her in that way.
	Well, she was actually a superior, but she was a co-worker.
	But she wasn't my direct superior, she was another superior.
	Were you attracted to her?
	Yes, I was attracted to her.
	Like, it's just chaos, man!
	That's fair.
	So why is there all this chaos?
	I guess I feel like I want to be, ironically, I'm trying to say all that to give you the full context, but in doing so, it sounds like contradictions.
	No.
	Contradictions do not give the full context.
	Contradictions are just confusing.
	If you say, I wasn't attracted to her, I was attracted to her.
	I put it out of my mind.
	I never thought of it.
	That doesn't hang together.
	Yeah.
	I get what you're saying.
	I mean, if you're attracted to a woman, you can't just put it out of your mind.
	We don't have switches.
	We're not like the basement switches in an electrical panel.
	Yeah, I mean, sometimes you're attracted to a woman and you're thinking of, like, Hitting on her, or there's something I can do, or there's thoughts like that going on in your mind, like, there might be something here.
	What I was trying to say is, I recognize she's pretty, but I also recognize this is my job, so I'm going to put that out of my mind.
	I don't consider that a contradiction.
	I consider that context, and that's what I was trying to communicate.
	Okay, but then you're saying that you never thought of it again.
	I never thought of, when I was working with her, I never thought of it again in terms of that there's something I can do to act on it.
	That there's any sort of future here.
	That there's any sort of potential of me being successful in this pursuit of this particular pretty girl.
	Okay, so then you remained attracted to her, but you chose to act on it.
	Absolutely.
	Okay, so then when I said, were you attracted to her, and you said no, what you meant was, I was attracted to her, but I had decided not to ask her out.
	Yes.
	Okay, but you can understand why that's confusing if that distinction is not made.
	Sure.
	Absolutely.
	I'll take responsibility.
	That's my fault.
	Again, I'm not trying to put any burden on you.
	Like, I apologize.
	I'm not trying to put any burden.
	I'm just...
	You're putting a burden on me in terms of not making contradictions and wasting time on the call.
	So I'm trying to...
	Well, no.
	This is human communication that what you say needs to make sense.
	I'm trying.
	I'm sorry.
	No, see, again, you keep apologizing like I'm attacking you or something.
	I'm trying to help.
	Yeah, definitely.
	I get that.
	And I'm trying to give you the accurate information and failing.
	Yeah, you're too smart to fail at that, right?
	This is not super complicated stuff.
	Well, obviously not.
	We just had a talk about all the contradictions.
	What I'm saying is that you're not failing like you're striving and it's just not working out, right?
	That's exactly what I feel like.
	Well, I don't think that's what's happening, though.
	Okay.
	That's fair.
	I think you rush things, maybe because you don't want to be boring, and then because you rush things, they become incomprehensible, which means people lose interest, and then you feel like you're boring, right?
	Frankly, I don't think your parents pay much attention to you at all.
	And I think you don't feel interesting.
	So then you try to rush through explanations and then people end up tuning out because it doesn't make any sense.
	and then you're like, oh, well, I guess I'm not interesting.
	Your parents don't pay attention to you.
	There's no fucking way that you can be in the dating pool for 25 years And never have had a successful relationship, and your parents aren't all over you with that, if they care about you, right?
	Your parents know that you want to get married and have kids, right?
	Yes.
	You've told them, hey, I want to get married and have kids, or you've said it in some way, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So your parents know that you have a goal, right?
	Yes.
	and when did you think you first mentioned or when do you think you first mentioned that to your parents um I'm sorry say that again When do you think your parents were first aware that at some point in your life, you wanted to get married and have kids?
	For many years, a couple of decades.
	Okay.
	So your parents have known for like 20 or 30 years.
	You may have said that as a kid, right?
	Let's just say 20 years.
	So your parents have known for 20 years that you want to get married and have kids, right?
	Yes.
	Right?
	And it's their job to guide you in that direction.
	I mean, they were willing to say, go get a degree, right?
	Yes.
	So they're willing to guide you in that direction, right?
	Yes.
	So I don't think you know what it's like to have people genuinely committed to helping you achieve your goals.
	To really take an interest in you...
	That resonates with me.
	I think you're on to something.
	Yeah.
	Yes, I think so too.
	So how is it possible that your parents have let you rot in the back rooms for a quarter-fucking century without sitting you down once and saying, How's this life goal of yours going?
	You're our son.
	We care about you.
	We want to help you achieve your goals.
	It's our job to help you achieve your goals because we're your parents.
	I mean, what do you all talk about?
	You paint an accurate picture, I think, morbidly.
	morbidly.
	But yeah, we talk about a lot of practical concerns.
	My goals, I have a couple business things.
	It's kind of like a A time of transition.
	Okay, I can't do any more abstractions with you.
	Sorry, I apologize.
	I can't, I can't, I won't.
	I just won't.
	Okay, let me ask you this.
	So you graduated from university in your early 20s, so to 22, 23?
	It was a little later, 25-ish.
	Why did it take so long to get a degree?
	I dropped out for a year, and...
	Uh, because, um, I, I wanted to get into the working world, but then I realized pretty quickly, you know, after a year, um, that I just, I was so close to finishing my degree.
	I should just go ahead and finish it.
	Okay, but that doesn't explain 25.
	You graduate at 17, go to school at 18.
	You're supposed to graduate at 22.
	That's another three years.
	So that's one of the three years.
	What happened to the other two?
	Yeah, I'm trying to piece together the time here.
	Okay, okay, forget it.
	Did your parents guide you through school, help you through school?
	Did they talk to you about how it was going?
	Did they give you good study habits?
	Did they help you figure out how to socialize because you were a shy kid?
	Maybe you were more extroverted at this point, right?
	Did your parents, were they committed to helping you succeed in the educational sphere, like in university?
	Not at university level, but through elementary and intermediate and high school, yes.
	Okay, fantastic.
	So they know how to help you in an educational environment, so then what happened with their help when you were in university?
	It vanished.
	Okay, so they lost interest.
	Like, why wouldn't they help you?
	Did they know you were going to drop out?
	Did they tell you, no, no, no, finish your degree, let's figure this out?
	Yeah, if I had to guess, I would think that, you know, they prepped me, and they obviously worked with me throughout the rest of my schooling and thought...
	No, you already said that, so they didn't help you in university.
	Okay, so you graduate university, and then you end up with a bunch of shitty jobs, right?
	You're a sushi delivery driver, you do administrative shit, and it's just crap, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, and this goes on from 25 until your early 30s, right?
	Yes, correct.
	Okay, what did your parents do about helping you with your career, helping you with your choices, realizing that you were kind of, you went off the rails in university, you went off the rails in your career.
	What did they do from 25?
	When did you go for your, oh no, it was almost a decade, wasn't it?
	It was your mid-30s that you went reoriented to computer programming, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, so for 10 years, you're floundering and drowning in a sea of inconsequential dead-end jobs, right?
	Yes.
	What the fuck did your parents do?
	Nothing proactive.
	They were there if I had struggles, but not really asking me about my long-term...
	Right, so they don't care.
	You can't watch someone flounder for a decade, not date for a quarter century, screw up in school and lose three years out of a four-year degree, and not intervene, and not say, kid, you know, something's not going right.
	Maybe it's us, maybe it's you, maybe it's the world, but we've got to sit down and figure this out, because we love you, and it's agony to us to watch you flounder like this, because we want to help you.
	Yeah.
	So why didn't they?
	Why have you had to invent everything yourself?
	Why have you had to figure out everything yourself?
	Why?
	The whole point of parents is they help you because they have more experience.
	They're supposed to be your mentors.
	It doesn't end at 17.
	Or 12, or 14, oh, you figure out the dating shit on your own.
	That's not parenting.
	Because all I've heard about your parents is they were fine with you playing around elsewhere, and they played a couple of board games with you, and then you would go on sleepovers, and then there was family events.
	Like, what have they invested in you?
	So that you don't have to invent everything yourself, which is exhausting and impossible.
	Uh-huh.
	Um...
	Yeah, uh...
	It's true.
	Uh...
	There was nothing there, um...
	in that sense.
	No help.
	So why didn't they care?
	Do they not care?
	Are they cold people?
	Are they indifferent people?
	Do they have no emotional depth?
	Why don't they care?
	I mean, I say this as a father myself, right?
	I mean, my daughter is almost 16, right?
	So she's got social stuff, there's some dating, like, I've got to talk to her about these things, because I really want to help her achieve what she wants to achieve in life as a whole and socially, right?
	So I'm not just going to let, I'm just going to sit back and watch TV and let her flounder and figure all this stuff out on her own?
	That's awful.
	That's cruel.
	Right.
	It's cold, is what it is.
	Yeah.
	Do you think your parents didn't notice that you weren't dating and your career sucked?
	You didn't have a career and you had no girls and, like, did they not notice?
	Genuinely, did they not notice?
	Did they not know these things?
	They must have known.
	Of course they knew.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So why don't they care?
	Why did they just watch you?
	I picture two parents standing on a beach when there's a heavy storm across sea and their kid is like half fucking drowning, gulping seawater, right?
	There's an undertow and they're just watching there.
	Just watching.
	You let us know if you need anything, that's fine.
	They're just staring.
	Yeah.
	You're drowning.
	On the one hand, that definitely makes sense, and I agree with you.
	On the other hand, it is odd to me that they could be so supportive in other ways.
	In the day-to-day, but when it comes to the serious stuff, that it just turns off like a switch.
	Well, it's never done as far as I can see.
	But what do you mean by supportive in the day-to-day?
	I don't know what that means.
	Just like you asked about my childhood.
	All through until high school, it was very involved with homework and helping with school and stuff.
	You need to go to college.
	You can do whatever you want just that you get a degree, but the rest is up to you.
	There's a lot of initial talks.
	Well, I mean, not a lot, I guess, but there's a pattern of initial conversation that's very lightweight and then a decade of silence that You know, of not checking in, of not following up on maintenance and further guidance.
	You know, there's like the start, but not the follow-through.
	Yeah, again, I don't know what any of this means.
	So, let me ask you this.
	When you went from extroverted to introverted, or I think we said impulsive to more self-restraint, did your parents notice that transition?
	I think that was after you hit your friend who tore up your basketball card when you were 12.
	Did your parents notice that transition?
	Did they notice you going from outgoing to shy?
	Did they notice that?
	Did they care?
	Did they try and guide you through any of that?
	Did they give you any feedback?
	Did they listen?
	Did they ask questions?
	They made observations, but it was just kind of throwaway comments here.
	They're not in the context of guidance or anything.
	Okay.
	Not like, you know, we've noticed this change.
	Why did this happen?
	Not a lot of curiosity.
	Okay, so what do you think it means that your parents don't care about the quality of your life and how to help you?
	Even though they're in possession of knowledge, you said your father's kept his job for his decades, right?
	So he knows how to keep a job and you were floundering going from place to place.
	They've obviously maintained their marriage, right?
	So your parents are in possession of knowledge that you desperately need in order to be happy.
	They see you clearly not achieving what they know how to do and they don't lift a fucking finger.
	So what does that mean about you in your heart of hearts?
	Why don't they do anything to help?
	Why did they just watch you drowning?
	I don't know, honestly.
	Okay, let's take it third person.
	You're at the beach, you watch two parents who are watching their kid drowning and not lifting a finger.
	Yeah.
	Why would the parents just watch a kid drown and not lift a finger to help?
	From the outside, it would just be like sadism.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Maybe they enjoy feeling superior.
	Maybe they enjoy watching you flounder.
	Maybe if you don't get a quality woman in your life, that quality woman is going to say, your parents' hearts are fucking icebergs.
	I don't like them.
	They're cold to you.
	They don't care.
	I don't like them.
	Maybe they want to keep you around so you can take care of them when they get ill, which is kind of what's going on at the moment, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	Huh.
	Certainly not about what's best for you.
	Right.
	So you don't know what it's like to be left.
	You don't know what it's like to be genuinely cared for.
	And I really sympathize with that.
	I really, that's an awful position to be in.
	I spent a lot of my life in that situation, too, just so you know.
	I mean, I have great empathy for this, right?
	I mean, it wasn't until I got into my 30s and met my wife that I finally figured out what it was to have someone actually care about you.
	I appreciate that.
	I'm sort of...
	Absorbing it, a little...
	Okay, are you not interesting, or are your parents cold?
	In other words, are they warm-hearted people, but they just find you really boring?
	You know, because sometimes that does happen, right?
	I mean, there are people that I meet who I find really boring.
	Yeah.
	So, are your parents not in...
	Like, what's going on deep down in your heart of hearts?
	Why don't your parents care?
	Because you've observed this your whole life, 40 years, right?
	And I'm not saying they never cared about anything, as you say.
	They helped you with homework and so on, right?
	But that's giving you competent skills or skills in competency.
	That's not caring about you as a person.
	That's caring about you as a skilled robot, right?
	So why don't they care?
	Is it because you're interesting, but they're cold-hearted?
	Or...
	Is it because you're boring and uninteresting?
	My initial reaction would just be that it's more likely that they're cold.
	Okay.
	Is their coldness news to you as of an hour and 45 minutes ago or maybe 10 minutes ago?
	Honestly...
	I think it was unconscious, but having talked with you, I think you're absolutely right, and I've recognized it for a while.
	Okay, so let's go back two hours ago, before you had this call, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	So, what was your answer two hours ago, in your unconscious?
	Deep down, What was your answer as to why your parents watched you drown and didn't lift a finger and did this for 25 years plus?
	Negligence.
	Uninterest.
	That's just another way of saying that they didn't act.
	But what was the cause of their inaction?
	The kid drowning in the choppy waters off the sea, right?
	In the sea.
	The kid drowning looks at his parents, not lifting a finger to help him, and they say, what does he say to himself?
	Why are his parents not helping him?
	Right.
	It has to be either selfishness or blindness or sadism or some version of that.
	Well, it's not blindness because they can see it.
	Yeah.
	But why?
	What causality, what dominoes would fall?
	And I think it would be something like the kid would say, I must be such a horrible kid.
	That they are fine with me drowning.
	I must be so unpleasant to them.
	I must be so hateful.
	I must be so disruptive and nasty and negative, and they must hate me so much that watching me drown makes sense.
	Like, you have to make it make sense.
	We always have things that are unconscious that are trying to make things make sense.
	Right.
	Now, he might say, these complete assholes, you know, they're just cruel sadists, and if I get to shore, I'm going to smack the crap out of them.
	Right?
	He might have that thought.
	I'm not saying he would go and do it, but he might have that thought.
	Like, I hate these people.
	They're so cold-hearted, they just watch me drown, even though I'm a great kid.
	So, someone is at fault.
	Right?
	Now, given that you didn't think your parents had any faults, right?
	Right?
	Because I asked you quite lengthy conversations, or I asked you quite lengthy questions about your parents in the first half of the conversation, right?
	That was not accidental, right?
	Right.
	And you were like, no, they're great, you know, they only got spanked twice, you know, I got some timeouts, I got lectured.
	Yes, they showed great interest in me.
	Do you remember that question?
	Right.
	Yes.
	Yes, I said, did they seek out your time?
	Did they take delight in you?
	Did they, right?
	And then I said, later, I said, well, were you even raised, right?
	Did they give you any advice, right?
	So you had a belief that your parents were great, but if your parents are great, but they don't help you with any of your life issues...
	But your parents are great, that must mean that you're terrible, that you're boring, that you're uninteresting, that you don't matter, that you're not...
	They've got great big hearts, but you're just not worth caring about because you're so unimportant and your life is so immaterial and it doesn't matter.
	There has to be despair down at the bottom there because if you praise your parents, you praise them not being interested in you, which means you must be completely uninteresting.
	Right.
	Yeah, all that follows through.
	Do you want me to blow your mind completely?
	Go for it.
	All right.
	You're a seasoned listener.
	So, I knew that when you called me up and said you had nothing to talk about.
	Right?
	Because you called me up saying, I'm completely uninteresting.
	I have no problems.
	I need no feedback.
	Right?
	I just want to tell you the story, Steph, of that time in Texas you ignored me.
	No.
	No, no, I'm not saying that I ignored you, but that was the general...
	I really tried to get to see you, but you didn't notice, you didn't care.
	I'm not saying that, but that was the gist of the story, was I was rejected by someone who was my mentor.
	Right?
	That's not an accidental story.
	It's a true story.
	Of course.
	And how many true stories do we have?
	Millions.
	and you chose that one.
	So you called, you wanted to book time for me, right?
	And you called me up with nothing.
	I have no questions, and you say, well, I guess I'm unprepared, or you know what I mean?
	So you were inviting me to take your parents' place and find you annoyingly uninteresting.
	Huh.
	And you were calling me up to break that cycle.
	But you didn't know it, I think, at the beginning of the call.
	Definitely not.
	But you see it now, right?
	I see, you know, I've never thought of my, I definitely have weaknesses, but I've never told myself I'm uninteresting.
	Okay, so you have to explain why your parents didn't show any interest in you and why they still don't.
	And the only answer is that they're cold-hearted, narcissistic, selfish-whatevers, right?
	Who have no capacity to bond with their child and view the child as an object.
	A resource provider.
	An ego boost.
	Someone to eat dinner with.
	Someone, right?
	But not with needs and thoughts and preferences of your own that they have to help you with.
	Right.
	Right?
	Like, I'm using this computer to do record this call-in show.
	I don't ask the computer if it wants to play Candy Crush.
	It's just a tool that I use for my own purposes.
	It's a thing.
	Right?
	Right?
	That's the selfish view of other people.
	They're just objects.
	I don't ask my computer what it wants to do.
	I just have it do what I want it to do.
	Right.
	So if your parents don't have any problems, you're the problem.
	Gotcha.
	They don't have any problems showing care, interest, and attention to other people, only you, which must mean you are boring as fuck.
	Right.
	Someone's at fault.
	Right.
	Because your life is kind of a mess.
	Agreed.
	Right?
	So, why is your life a mess?
	Well, I've just made bad decisions, and I this, and I that, and I guess I just misinterpreted how much he was into me, and, like, none of that hangs together.
	Good point.
	Why is your life a mess?
	Because your parents don't care about you, and you don't see that.
	Now, please understand, I'm not saying they don't care about you in any way, shape, or form, and they're completely indifferent as to whether you're here or get hit by a comet.
	But you, qua, you.
	Let's use a little Latin here, right?
	You, with regards to you, as opposed to, like, the Kantian thing, right?
	Yeah.
	You, as for you, rather than you, as it serves them.
	Yeah, I'm, I agree.
	That's true.
	Because they've not helped you with any of your life goals as an adult, even though they have succeeded in those goals.
	It's one thing, if I'm a Japanese teacher, my daughter's desperate to learn Japanese and I don't teach her, right?
	That's kind of being a jerk, right?
	But if I don't know Japanese, that's different.
	So if your parents' lives were pure chaos and they never achieved anything themselves and they had no stable relationships and they had no career, then that would be one thing, right?
	We'd have criticisms, but not because they were in possession of knowledge that you needed, that they were failing or refusing to transfer to you.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So...
	Why is your life a mess?
	I'm not saying it's only a mess, but, you know, in terms of the work and love thing, it's not going super well, although the work thing is better than it used to be, right?
	Definitely.
	Okay.
	So, with regards to love, why has love not worked for you?
	I have no ability to recognize valid interest in me, Kwame.
	Right.
	And that basically puts me in a position where it's always kind of a wild card.
	You just have to cross your fingers and hope that lust and...
	What did you say?
	The puppy-dog stage, right?
	You just have to hope that the initial flesh-collision dopamine is going to sustain something, and it doesn't.
	Right.
	Right?
	Thank you, yeah.
	I'm fully in agreement and shaken, but...
	And that's why you tell stories that don't hang together, so that people lose interest and find it too confusing and baffling and abstract, and then they just can't stay focused.
	I mean, I'm willing to fight through it, that's fine, but that's why you tell these confusing stories that jump all over the place and contradict.
	It's partly because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
	Well, I don't want to take up too much people's time and attention, and then you sell these scattered stories, people lose interest.
	is like, yeah, I kind of knew that I was not going to keep their attention, right?
	Hmm.
	What age did you go from extroverted to introverted?
	Um, yeah.
	Thank you.
	Probably 15.
	Right.
	Maybe a little earlier.
	That's an estimate.
	Now, I know that you think it was the friend tearing up the Michael Jordan card, which I'm not saying it wasn't, right?
	But what do you think might have happened that you went from extroverted to introverted and your parents didn't help you with it?
	Not sure.
	I'm thinking...
	Do your parents want you to be in a successful, happy, loving, stable relationship with a virtuous woman?
	Does that aid their Access to your resources, your time and attention.
	No, it does not.
	Okay.
	So if your parents view you as a means to an end for themselves rather than, in the Kantian sense, in a means to an end of yourself, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	Right?
	So if your parents view you as a means to satisfy their needs and preferences, does it serve that need if you get into a quality relationship with a quality woman?
	No, it does not.
	Right.
	So that's why they didn't teach you about dating.
	And maybe why I remained introverted for so long.
	Well, you remained introverted because if you'd stayed extroverted, you would have attracted more girls.
	Right.
	And your parents didn't want you to do that because I would assume that that would interfere with you providing resources to them.
	Now, they did want you to do well in school because nobody wants a kid who's flunking out, right?
	so they help you with your homework but not because of you for status and not have a failure as a kid right Right.
	And they're like, well, we don't care what you do, just get a degree.
	Yeah.
	Well, what's that for?
	When you said, I want to take philosophy, did they say, oh, that's interesting, what's the long-term strategy, how's that going to get you a job, what are the career prospects, like, let's figure this out, right?
	Right.
	There was a small period like that, but it didn't last long.
	Right.
	And it didn't take.
	Right.
	Right.
	So they just wanted you to get a degree...
	Right?
	So, I mean, I swear this is true.
	A lot of parental stuff is like they just want an answer for their friends.
	Yeah.
	Oh, what's your son doing?
	Well, he's taking philosophy at this university.
	Oh, wow, that's great.
	As opposed to, I don't really know, man.
	I mean, he's taking a couple of jobs.
	Like, that feels bad for parents, so it's a vanity thing.
	For sure.
	yeah I absolutely understand what you're saying and I'm shaken by it So somebody, I appreciate that, and somebody who focuses on you and helps you achieve your goals, that's a superpower.
	Yeah, and based on our conversation, I guess I don't even know what that's like.
	You don't.
	You don't know what that's like.
	Which is almost more horrifying.
	No, that's great news, man.
	Holy shitballs, Batman.
	This is great news.
	The experiences I interpreted as support were instrumental, not claw me, as you put it.
	Yeah, for sure.
	So I've misunderstood for my whole life, in a way.
	Yeah, when I was in grade 8, I took an adult computer science course.
	I was in a grade 13 writing course.
	My mom crowed about this to all her.
	Oh, he's taking adult computer science courses.
	He's in a writing course that's five years or six years ahead of his grade.
	She was just thrilled, but she got to brag about me all the time.
	Yeah.
	Did it have anything to do with me?
	Actually, I would just go to that adult computer science class.
	I just programmed games.
	I didn't read disk IOs from a pet on a five and a quarter inch floppy.
	I didn't care about any of that stuff.
	I just went and programmed video games.
	In fact, I remember that the teacher saw me playing a video game and he's like, no games in class.
	And I said, I programmed this.
	And he said, no, you didn't.
	And I hit control break and I showed him the code and he was like, man, that's good.
	It was a space exploration game.
	It was a very cool game, by the way.
	But anyway, So, it wasn't for me.
	And the reason why I'm saying this is great news is, if your life isn't going well, but everything is right, that's really bad.
	Yeah.
	I get what you mean.
	Right?
	I mean, if you're losing weight too much, right?
	And then you start eating well, and you exercise, and you try and retain the weight, or gain the weight, and you try and put on muscle, but you just keep losing weight, even though you're doing everything right, you're probably going to die, right?
	Or at least be very sick, right?
	Right.
	Whereas if you say, geez, I keep losing weight, well, what are you doing?
	Well, I'm sitting on the couch and eating a thousand calories a day.
	It's like, well, that might be it, right?
	Right.
	So it's really good news if your life isn't working out and you've missed a big thing like, holy crap, my parents don't focus on me.
	Yeah.
	That's really good news.
	Yes, I agree.
	And that's why when these girls come along, you just grab at them and it just falls apart in your hands.
	Because you don't know, I think, deep down, and I sympathize with this again and I understand this, I really do, You don't know what it's like to have people care about you qua you.
	And to be dedicated to making you happy relative to virtue and your preferences.
	Rather than giving you a pat on the head because you did what they wanted.
	Yeah.
	I think that's spot on and Horrifying at the same time.
	It absolutely is horrifying, but incredibly liberating.
	Yes.
	Because I want that for you, brother.
	That's why I fight so hard on this whole combo, right?
	And I appreciate your patience with me, right?
	Likewise.
	I want you to have people, like, okay, am I running an agenda here?
	Am I trying to get you to do something for me?
	I'm not, at least I hope I'm not, and I think it's fair to say that I'm not.
	I'm just trying to get to the truth and to get you to a place where you can be loved and be cared for regarding you.
	Yeah.
	But in order to be loved, you have to realize when you're not loved.
	In order to find a quality woman who's capable of loving you, you have to recognize that your parents are not anomalies.
	Maybe they're a little further along in the extreme, but your parents are not anomalies.
	There's not a lot of people who know how to focus on someone else without an agenda and really work to help that person without trying to bring ego into it or some theory that needs to be fulfilled or something like that.
	Right.
	Or to, you know, this is a free call.
	You're not paying me.
	I mean, I think it's a good call for people to listen to because a lot of us go through this.
	Like, I think most people go through this.
	You're not alone in this at all.
	Most people don't know what it's like to be genuinely cared for for themselves.
	And as a result of that, not only do they not experience the beauty of receiving love, but when you really devote yourself to someone else's happiness and it's mutual, it's the greatest thing in the world.
	Like, there's absolutely nothing better.
	Man, it must be.
	I hope I get that.
	Sometime.
	Well, yes, but in order to get to where the water is, you have to recognize when you're drinking sand.
	Yeah.
	And listen, what I'm talking about with regards to your parents, it's just a theory that I think fits the facts, but if I were in your shoes, I would sit down with my parents and say, why didn't you guys talk to me about dating?
	Why didn't you help me with university?
	Why didn't you help me with my career?
	And ask if they're curious about it.
	And see if they're curious about it, see if they want to know more, or if they're just like, well, you've got to figure these things out for yourself.
	Well, this, well, that.
	Well, it's like, but you're my parents.
	You're supposed to help me, right?
	Especially as you say, like you've got an 11-year younger sister, but...
	Especially if you don't have siblings, right?
	So sometimes siblings can help you with the dating stuff, you know, or maybe with the career stuff.
	So you don't have siblings, you can't get advice from your younger sister.
	So it's really them, right?
	They chose to have a single, but what is effectively a single child, right?
	So, you know, you're 15 and your sister is like six, right?
	No, four.
	Sorry, she's four.
	Yeah, sorry.
	I could do math at one point in my life.
	So she's four.
	She's not going to give you any dating advice, right?
	I hope, right?
	So your parents chose to not have siblings for you, and so it's up to them to teach you about dating and to help you with careers and all of this sort of stuff, right?
	Right.
	I mean, to say you're going to figure this out on your own, it's like, okay, well, what are you guys for then?
	Yeah.
	Right?
	If you have a teacher, I mean, my daughter had a teacher once about a particular subject, and she would say, can you help me with this?
	And she's like, the teacher's like, well, you'll figure it out.
	And I'm like, so what's the point?
	What's the point of the teacher?
	Right.
	There's no teaching, right?
	Now, can you imagine, you go to try and someone, you hire someone to teach you piano, and you're just thrashing around, and you say, what should I do?
	You'll figure it out.
	It's like, but then, why am I paying you?
	If I'm not going to figure it out, I don't need to pay you.
	You're not a teacher.
	So they're only your parents if they parent you.
	They're not sperm and egg donors and landlords.
	They're your parents if they parent you.
	Mm-hmm.
	And I don't see the parenting.
	But again, it's just a theory.
	So if you talk to your parents and say, I really feel like some stuff was missing here.
	Yeah.
	Like, help me understand, right?
	Right.
	Maybe they've got fantastic reasons that I can't conceive of, right?
	I'm the opposite of omniscient, obviously, right?
	But if you have conversations with them, and I'd love to hear, if you do, what happens with that, but I'm rabidly curious.
	I guess the last topic of which we can touch on for a minute or two is, and obviously don't get into any details because she's not here, but I guess your sister is in her late 20s, right?
	How's her life going overall, like in terms of love and career?
	She's had more long-term, stable relationships.
	She's only had two relationships.
	Sorry, she's had two, go ahead.
	Two relationships total that I know of.
	Is she in a relationship now or is she single?
	She's in a relationship now.
	And how long has that mom been going on for?
	Yeah, a long time, like five years maybe.
	Why isn't she married?
	Yeah, um...
	I don't know the answer to that.
	Do you want to get married?
	I think so.
	She's mentioned it before, and my parents have talked with her about it.
	Okay, so have you talked with her about it?
	I have not, actually.
	Why not?
	Don't you want to help your sister get what she wants?
	What her values are?
	I see where this is going.
	Now, I'm not trying to make you feel bad because you didn't even know this was a void in the family, right?
	Yeah.
	But, you know, I'd have a call with her and say, do you want to get married?
	What's happening with this guy?
	You know, there's that old sort of cliche, when's he going to make an honest woman of you?
	It's been five years.
	I mean, how long do you test drive the car, right?
	Yeah.
	No, I need that.
	We, I think, you know, your theory is Growing efficacy because I think I engage with my sister similarly to how my parents have engaged with me.
	Yeah, just level emptiness, maybe if you need something, right?
	Oh, sorry, what was that?
	Like surface level detritus, maybe if you need something.
	I definitely have attempted to go deeper, but talking with you now, I haven't I could have done better.
	And does she have the career that she wants, or if she's employed, is she doing what she wants?
	Yeah, she's got a thriving career.
	Okay, well, that's good.
	And have she helped you at all with your career?
	No, but...
	Boy, you guys, man.
	It's like interstellar distance.
	This is like intergalactic.
	Okay, so your author might ask her why she never helped you with your career.
	Not some big accusatory thing, just like, I mean, obviously you're better at careers than I am.
	Why wouldn't...
	Did you ever think of saying anything to me?
	Or if not, why not?
	Or whatever, right?
	Yeah, I... I have guesses, but it's worth an ask, for sure.
	Right.
	So, yeah, I mean, I... I mean, it's funny because the difference between the beginning, and you'll hear this when you listen back, like the difference between the beginning of this call and now is night and day, as far as connectedness and conversation goes.
	I appreciate it.
	I mean, I'm sorry for fumbling it.
	Don't apologize.
	I'm glad that we got to someplace useful.
	You have nothing to apologize for.
	You can't know till you know, right?
	I appreciated the challenge and you put up a very admirable and noble fight and I appreciate that too.
	I really do.
	I want to earn my daily bread, right?
	So that's good.
	It can't be boring, right?
	And it's not.
	This was very interesting.
	I came in with like all this ammunition of singing your praises, complimenting you.
	I had a list of all the things that I've learned from you that I wanted to sing your praises on and now I'm chilled to the core.
	Of like this new paradigm.
	And it really is a call-in show, for sure.
	Okay, well, will you keep me posted about how things are going?
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	Well, I appreciate that.
	And great job on the call.
	And I look forward to an update.
	And I certainly wish you the very best.
	I'm sure you'll be able to get what you want out of life.
	Thank you so much.
	Same to you.
	Thanks, brother.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.

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