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Sept. 14, 2024 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:41:06

Where Do I Fit in the World? Freedomain Call In

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	Um, hello?
	Hello.
	How's it going?
	Good.
	How are you doing, Steph?
	I am well.
	Thank you for having a decent microphone.
	It makes me weep with joy and gratitude.
	Oh, yeah, because it's the gamer in me.
	So I just bought it because I just wanted a nice mic.
	So I just have the headphone mic set up.
	Oh, nice.
	Nice.
	What's the mic, by the way?
	I think it's an Elgato Wave 3.
	Oh, nice.
	Nice.
	OK.
	All right.
	Enough tech.
	I'm all ears, brother.
	How can I best help?
	Also, I don't remember what I said of work for an email, but I'm 25 years old and still live in my parents' basement.
	And then right now I just work a job as a fabric here, but I do have a college degree, but long story short with college, I went with it from pressure from my parents.
	Cause at the time when I was 18, it was either they sent me to college or they kicked me out of the house.
	So, I just chose to go along with it because I didn't want to get kicked out.
	So I spent two years as a computer science major, but then dropped out because I wasn't liking it.
	So I switched to manufacturing engineering with an emphasis in welding.
	But I did get through the degree, but I wasn't very passionate about it.
	So I just did enough to pass.
	And then here I am now, just still living at home.
	Not much of a day in life and not much of a social circle.
	Wow.
	Okay.
	I'm obviously happy to hear more about childhood and all that kind of juicy stuff.
	Sure.
	So as a kid growing up, both my parents worked.
	My dad worked nights and my mom worked during the day.
	So I saw my mom more, but I spent a lot of my childhood with my grandma, but she was very cold, verbally abusive and physically abusive at times.
	So it was being hit with a belt or sometimes during the shower if you did something bad she'd grab me in the head and put my head into the tile of the bathtub.
	I actually don't remember too much about my childhood other than spending it mostly in front of a screen.
	I didn't have that many friends growing up.
	I actually never went to a friend's house until I was in like the 5th or 6th grade.
	When I finally had one friend I went to his house.
	But I actually never really had that many friends over here because I was just too nervous to bring them home.
	Now was that because of your grandmother or your parents?
	So it was mostly with my parents because I was always too nervous to ask them.
	So we would either be dropped off at our grandma's house or I'd be at home if that makes sense.
	So my dad's mom was the one that took care of us mostly when we were kids.
	But then when my mom would come home from work, then we'd go back home.
	So it was school.
	And this was during elementary school.
	So elementary school, it was home.
	Then our grandma's house would take care of us.
	And eventually when we got old enough, she no longer took care of us.
	We just went back to our house.
	I think around junior high.
	But even then, at that point, since I didn't have that many friends, junior high was kind of a struggle because I only had a I actually didn't have that many friends in junior high.
	I remember just spending it mostly by myself.
	First of all, I mean, just really appalled and incredibly sorry that you had such a violent grandmother.
	Like you said, the verbal abuse, terrible, smacking your head against tiles and this kind of violence.
	Throwing a slipper at my head one time, yep.
	Yeah.
	I mean, it's beyond appalling and wretched and, you know, I mean, this stuff is even, you know, it was bad before I became a dad and now I sort of look at my daughter and, you know, she's just great and so much fun and the idea that, I mean, somebody would be violent or...
	I don't know.
	I mean, I got it morally before I became a dad, and now it's just like, it's really baked into my bones just how just appalling and terrible all of that stuff is for kids.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah, to make things worse too, it was like one of those situations where since it was just so normal in my family, I felt like there's no one ever there to help me.
	Because like, my dad was also just as bad too.
	So, It was your dad's mom, is that right?
	It was my dad's mom, yeah.
	Yeah, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
	So, I think, because my dad did it, and the therapist said, I told the therapist during the first session that I know I got abused and hit as a kid, but I don't remember a lot of it, because a lot of my childhood is like, blank.
	I can tell you, I have a few memories of some really bad ones, like My brother told me that our current house that I'm living in right now, the side window for the house, is if you were to push it, the glass will come out.
	And one time I locked myself out.
	So I went to, you know, try to push it out and I broke the window.
	But no, obviously just out of fear, because if I do something, it usually means I get yelled at or beat.
	I didn't say anything.
	I just, you know, walked to my grandma's house and then Pretended like I didn't break it, and they discovered it was broken.
	And then when my dad discovered it was broken, he thought someone had broken in, but then eventually he was like, okay, if you guys tell me the truth, I won't punish you, nothing will happen, and I told him the truth.
	I told him I broke it, and I still got beat later.
	Oh, God.
	Yeah.
	When I told the therapist that, I think he was the first person I ever told that story to.
	I'm still feeling emotional now, but when I told the therapist that, I actually cried.
	For the first time, I can't remember.
	How old were you when that happened?
	I can't remember the exact age, but I remember it was like the 5th or 6th grade.
	That's when that happened.
	Right, okay.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	No worries.
	I forget where we're at.
	Well, I was expressing sympathy and all of that.
	I mean, I have some questions, but I don't want to interfere with what it is that you're saying, so I can hold off.
	Yeah.
	So I did tell the therapist that, and I told him, like, I started crying.
	I told him I actually don't remember the last time I cried.
	And after thinking about it, I'm like, oh my God.
	And I've now gotten home from the therapist.
	Like, I don't actually, I've never really had anyone, my most of my life, I actually feel sympathy, like, right now with you, Steph, it's like, yeah, I actually don't know what it's like to have someone feel sympathy for me.
	Because, like, my family doesn't really have a lot of, you know, emotions.
	They don't really show a lot of that stuff.
	Right.
	Right.
	And what happened, I guess, as you got older into your teenage years and so on?
	So, as I got older...
	Junior high was spent mostly alone.
	Junior high in high school for me was rough with grades, especially with my relationship with my dad, because it was all about my grades.
	And the worst thing was, I had it worse than my brother.
	With him, he did average-ish, like A's, B's, and C's.
	I was straight A's.
	To be honest with you, straight A's in public school isn't that hard.
	But if it was anything less than a B or a C, it was verbal abuse.
	I think one of the worst ones I remember was in seventh grade.
	I had a C in a class.
	And then for Christmas, I just always wanted an iPod.
	And the thing is, I think it was because of what my mom was doing, but I actually ended up getting one.
	But rather than, you know, Just giving it as a gift to your kids.
	I remember he took the iPod out of my hand.
	He's like, what did you do to earn this?
	And it was supposed to be a Christmas present.
	Then it was immediately taken away from me the next week because I had bad grades.
	But most of junior high I was living in fear because of my grades.
	Because I knew anything lower than, you know, a B, it would just be, you know, stuff would get taken away.
	I'd get yelled at.
	And then that was all through high school and junior high.
	I think high school, the worst one, the tipping point was, um, I think it was my senior year.
	Cause I took harder classes and my mom tried to, no reason with them just be like, Hey, he's taking harder classes.
	So maybe his grades might drop a little bit cause they're like college level.
	Then I think I had like a C in one class, B or C in an AP class.
	And I remember that class was pretty hard.
	And I remember he went to, I remember the morning, I just remember waking up and I was hearing him yelling at my mom, telling her that you're raising a bunch of dumbasses, your kids are failures.
	And then he came into my room and then he kicked me into my bed and was very, you know, all the verbal abuse.
	My mom actually stepped in front of us and you know, she stopped it.
	And after that, you know, went to school, generally nothing happened.
	And I just, I did what I could in that class.
	I ended up with like a B or something, but it was, yeah, that's pretty much my middle school and high school experience is just trying to keep the grades up.
	Not because I wanted to, it was because I just didn't want the house to explode because of that.
	What do you think, I mean, I assume everyone who listens to what I do here is pretty damn smart.
	What do you think was the barrier to you getting really good grades?
	Motivation, or it was tough to study at home, or was there some reason?
	So, my motivation to get good grades?
	Well, I don't know, that's what I'm asking.
	My motivation to get good grades was, you know, just so my dad wouldn't yell at us.
	That's the only reason why I cared enough to do well in school.
	The one class I actually did do well in that I enjoyed was welding.
	I actually really liked working with my hands.
	But most of the other, you know, boring stuff I didn't like.
	History, I didn't really have that much motivation to do it other than to get the grades so I can not get yelled at when I get home.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And I mean, I suppose there's a certain amount of like, well, what's the point?
	And also you're being bullied to do something by people you don't necessarily respect.
	And that's kind of, then you just feel like you're complying and you lose your soul.
	Yeah.
	Cause like it was most of it, I can tell you it was because it wasn't, he was, cause my dad's afraid of how other people think of him.
	So his thing was like, I don't want you kids to end up like the people at my work who, you know, failed school or cause.
	Oh, well quick anecdote is both my parents are from the Philippines.
	So they grew up poor and then they came here to the States in 02.
	And then I, I didn't come here until I was two as well.
	So I'm, I'm just pretty much full American, but it's because, um, he just didn't want people to think that he was a failure because his kids weren't doing well in school.
	Cause he wanted to use us as a status, like, look at my kids to show up.
	So that's the only reason why he was putting so much pressure on us.
	Cause he just was, uh, Obsessed with his own pride or something.
	Right.
	I mean, it's a status-based culture in a lot of ways, right?
	It was never about what I wanted.
	It was always about what they wanted.
	That's why they wanted both their kids to go through college, even though I didn't want to go to college.
	I wanted to actually go to a tech school and become a welder, but that's when either you go to college or you're just kicking out of the house.
	At the time I was like, I don't want to get kicked out of the house, I don't know what to do, so I just went with it.
	Right, okay.
	Do you know, just before we get to sort of mid-teens and dating stuff and all of that, do you know why your parents didn't work that much to spend time with you when you were little?
	Were they both working like crazy?
	Is that why you had to spend time with your grandmother?
	I'm not quite sure I followed that, sorry if I missed it.
	Yeah, because my dad works for the postal office, so just to make money and pay for the house, he worked overtime.
	So he worked swing shift from like 4 to 4.
	Sometimes he wouldn't be home till 6, and my mom worked just a normal 8 to 5 o'clock job, and she wasn't home till the evening, so I didn't really see much of my dad.
	With my grandma and my mom, so it was my mom would come home from work and then pick us up and then take us home until we're old enough to take care of ourselves in the house.
	Does that answer your question?
	Yeah, I get it.
	And I mean, you get paid pretty well at the post office, right?
	I mean, is there some reason why they both needed to work?
	I think it's because since they grew up, So poor, they just wanted, you know, both to just have money because they wanted to have money to support both of us.
	But.
	To be honest with you, I think part of it was because my mom wanted our own space because at first when we were when they first moved here, when I was super young, when I was three or four, they, you know, live at our grandma's house because they were here first.
	But eventually my mom was like, no, I want us to have our own place.
	So that's when she started working so they can afford a townhome as well.
	And then they just, uh, kept working and they both just kept working and they just, uh, left us with our grandma.
	Cause they're like, Ooh, we can both work.
	We can just leave the kids with grandma to take care of us or take care of the kids.
	All right.
	Um, I'm, you know, just going to do something a little unusual here and, and bear with me.
	Um, the U S postal office.
	Average salary... 2005, let's say, right?
	Yeah, we got our own house, like, oh... Yeah, it was actually 05-06.
	That's when they... So, um... Let's see here.
	So, average salary right now, USPS, it's $65,000 a year.
	It's 65,000 a year.
	That's pretty good, right?
	It's a little tough to find it historically, but you know, I mean, they've got a strong union and it's government pays.
	So all of that.
	So yeah, both my parents, because my mom worked actually what happened, her first job was like a part, somewhat of a part-time job at, cause I live near an air force base, just, I won't say specifically, but she worked there as a, cause they have what's called the BX.
	So it's kind of just like the government, Government Walmart.
	And then she worked there as a cashier because she was going to also go into school for finance.
	And then eventually she became a finance manager at one of the cities.
	And she's been there since for the past like 10 plus years.
	And her salary was like 70K when she started.
	So I think she almost She made as much as my dad for a bit, but then my dad started making more because of his time there at the post office, plus overtime.
	Right.
	Do you have siblings?
	Just one.
	Do you have siblings?
	Just one.
	Right.
	Yeah, I just, I guess, why wouldn't your mother
	want to not work part time or work and why wouldn't
	she want to be home with you and your sibling when you were little?
	I I actually don't know, because most of my childhood, I don't remember my mom spending too much time with us.
	I just remember being with my grandma, because that's kind of one of those.
	And the horrible thing about that, if they used that, To guilt me and my brother, like, you know how much we worked as when you guys were kids to support you whenever I, you know, do something or just talk, or if I ever talk back to them, they'd use that as an excuse or, or manipulation tool to get us to do what they want.
	But that's, that's, that's just total crap.
	Sorry to be, to be so blunt.
	That's total crap.
	I didn't ask you to.
	I would rather, I mean, the response to that is always, well, I didn't ask you to, and I actually would rather you have not had me, quote, parented by this insane, violent grandmother.
	I actually wanted to spend time with you guys, but you never asked me.
	So don't talk about me.
	Like, you just did what you wanted, right?
	You guys wanted to go and work, you wanted to make the money, and obviously you didn't want to spend time with us that much.
	So, yeah, don't even try and pretend that this is any kind of sacrifice for me.
	It's not what I wanted.
	I would have actually much preferred to spend time with you guys than with crazy, violent, beat-my-head-into-the-bathroom-tile grandmother.
	So, I mean, don't even try.
	And, yeah, my dad treated me the exact same way as my grandma did, too, because that's how he was raised.
	Right.
	Right.
	I mean, it's one of the things...
	that's really kind of essential about immigrants, as a whole, is that if you're going to move, say, from the Philippines to America, and you want your kids to grow up in America and be, you know, part of sort of the mainstream culture in America, then you kind of need to figure out how people raise their kids in America and try and do something like that.
	Like, you can't just I don't know, like, if I lived in Ireland and then I decided to move to Japan, raise my children in Japan, I wouldn't just raise them like I was still in Ireland, because that would mess up my kids, in terms of fitting into the general culture.
	I don't know if this makes any sense, but it's... Oh, it makes 100% sense.
	You gotta go to the host culture and figure out how your kid's gonna survive in that.
	Oh, not to survive, but flourish, but it's like people just come from...
	You know, craptastic child abuse cultures, and just reproduce that in America where there's less of that, and then say to their kids, off you go!
	Good luck!
	You'll fit in just fine!
	I raised you like we were still in the Philippines, now you're in America!
	Off you go!
	Yeah, because it was so odd to me when I... because my giveaway, my... hopefully this doesn't give away where I'm at, but there's a lot of Mormons where I'm at, so most of my friends in And funny thing about Mormons is just like, there's a lot of in-group preference.
	So I happen to have what I call the John Mormons.
	So their families were very welcoming to me too.
	But a good friend of mine, when I went to his house and I just saw the way his family treated their kids and their relationship between their mom and dad and their siblings, I was like, this is so weird to me.
	Because of the way I was, because they would just talk to each other normally.
	They're able to, you know, make joke and tease each other.
	And then there's, yeah, it's just very friendly.
	And I'm like, yeah, if I try to do that at home, it'd be a completely different story.
	Right.
	And then because you've had a lot of the American influences, you don't quite fit into the Filipino stuff, but because you've got the Filipino stuff, there's a bit of a gap.
	It's just, it's tough.
	It's tough.
	Yeah.
	Relieving to finally have someone that understands, because there's many people who don't understand the weird situation where I'm in, where I'm just, I don't quite fit into the Filipino culture, but sometimes growing up I struggled to, you know, fit into the American culture.
	Right.
	Yeah, I mean, you're between two worlds, right?
	And then you get into philosophy, you're doomed!
	No, I'm just kidding.
	Well, maybe a little.
	But only in the short run.
	In the long run, I hope it works out.
	I'm sure it will.
	But yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of underappreciated by a lot of people, just what a huge challenge that is.
	And then, heaven help you, you then have to find some girl who also is between two worlds, but not too much, one way or the other, and it's tricky, right?
	Very.
	Especially here, you know.
	Where I'm at is because of the Mormon influence.
	It's very hard, like, it was very difficult dating in like high school because, you know, there's a lot, I mean, dating around it was, I had a couple of very nice Mormon girls, but obviously since when they found out I was an LDS, it was, yeah, you're, you're cool, but I can't really do anything with you.
	And then I, yeah, I understand.
	But for sure it was very hard to relate with some people who didn't really Understanding between two worlds.
	And, I mean, yeah, I mean, obviously, I mean, as you know, I came from Ireland, to a bit of Africa, to England, to Canada, and yeah, it's, you know, tough to find how that stuff all works in together.
	So, yeah, I do sympathize.
	And have you been back to the Philippines?
	I mean, how do you find that world?
	I only went there Once when I was six and I don't remember too much, but it was, um, I just remember going around, but I remember also not fitting too much to how the kids were there.
	Cause since I was from America, all the kids were just actually, it's been so long.
	I remember I fit into the family ish quite well, but it was mostly being asked like, well, how are things in America type deal?
	But.
	Me being so young, I just remember just going around, just seeing the malls and going to the museums.
	I don't remember too much.
	But what about, I mean, your parents obviously have their Filipino immigrant friends and family and so on.
	How is it for you getting along with that kind of group of people who came from the Philippines and first generation?
	So first generations, like in the States, because the closest I've come to that was a family reunion on my mom's side a couple of times.
	And I got along quite well with them because most of them were very integrated.
	Because I think my mom's mom, so that grandma, her brother was a doctor.
	So on that side of the family, there was like multiple doctors.
	So those guys were very, very smart.
	So when we came and visited, I got along because they were, like I said, very integrated to the United States.
	So there wasn't that much of a big difference there.
	Right, okay.
	So yeah, tell me a little bit about what happened in your mid-teens.
	You said you got a little bit of the LDS dating stuff, but that couldn't go very far?
	Yeah, most of my mid-teens was just growing up in the suburbs.
	I did have one friend group in high school.
	Uh, just normal teenage go out, no drugs, no alcohol.
	And then we would just hang out.
	Dating was very tough because I was very, and I still kind of am, very socially anxious in high school.
	So I didn't really branch out from, uh, from those group of friends.
	And then when I would try to date, I wasn't aware of it, but I didn't have that well of social skills and didn't really know how to interact with girls very well.
	What specifically happened?
	Let's see.
	One of my very, very first date, I didn't really understand how to talk to her, so I didn't realize that she wasn't interested.
	For lack of a better term, simping.
	So I kept going after her, even though she just sent me like one word text messages.
	And I think during one of the dances, she actually ditched me for another dude.
	Wait, what do you mean?
	So during the dance, she would just disappear.
	Randomly say, oh, I gotta go do something.
	And I would just hang out with my friends.
	Wait, sorry, you mean you would ask her to a dance and then she just ghost you for a while?
	Yeah, she'd ghost me for a while, and then during the slow dances, she'd come back.
	But then after that, I kept going after her, like, telling her to text her and be with her, because I really liked her.
	Then eventually, my friends were just like, dude, you got to stop.
	This is bad.
	So eventually, I just moved on.
	But that kept becoming an ongoing theme, because I would just find one girl I really like and then just get obsessed.
	But then Not realized, not interested in me, but I still, you know, keep going.
	And that happened with two other girls after her, if I remember right.
	Right, okay.
	And did you, as far as dating went, did you go on many dates or did that play out at all?
	Not very many dates.
	Real times I would just...
	Go on dates was for dancers, but actually going out and just asking someone, it didn't really happen very often.
	It happened a couple times, but not too much.
	And even after graduating from high school, I didn't really ask out or date anyone.
	I had one girlfriend.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Had one girlfriend after high school who was a co-worker and that did it.
	I can tell you that one, that one didn't end very good.
	So it was my first job.
	We were pretty much just packaging and picking stuff from shelves.
	I picked her job at a warehouse.
	So she actually ended up asking me for my, for my Snapchat.
	So she actually came on to me.
	So we started talking a little bit.
	I was like, okay, pretty sure this one was, uh, this one's interested in me and quick little background.
	So when Mormons, when they turn 18, they have to go on missions.
	So at that point, I pretty much all my friends were gone on their missions.
	I didn't have any friends.
	So I was like, okay, this girl seems interested.
	And I remember we were texting back and forth and she asked me if I was still a virgin.
	I told her, Yes.
	And she's like, well, just let me know and I'll be that girl.
	And I'm like, oh, okay.
	So I took her out on a date and we ended up- That could be a hint she likes you.
	Yep.
	Got it.
	Yeah.
	And then we went on a date and I told her on that date, I'm like, yeah, I don't want to try anything in the night.
	But then I ended up kissing her, but I was at a rock climbing place and it's kind of awkward.
	And then she seemed kind of awkward afterwards, and my head was like, crap.
	So we went back in the car, and I was like, yeah, I apologize.
	That was probably a bit rush of me to do, but then she unbuckled and threw herself onto me.
	And then, okay, we went with that.
	And then later that night, we took her out for dinner, and then We went to a car parking lot, went to the very top of the parking garage, and then that's when I lost my virginity.
	She just pretty much love-bombed me there.
	And then we dated for a little bit afterwards, but it ended with her cheating on me with her ex.
	What happened is during that relationship is when she started dating me, she's like, oh, yeah, I'm single right now.
	But it turns out when she started talking to me, she was still technically dating that guy who she lived with.
	Yikes.
	Yeah.
	So she lived with and the thing is, too, she they're very I'm I missed all the red flags because like that guy also gave her rights to work.
	But I didn't.
	Well, I did put two and two together by kind of just gas up myself like, no, maybe they're just friends, but no.
	Cause she kept saying roommate, but, um, it was really just the guy that she was living with.
	But what makes everything worse here is the entire time we were together, it was all in protected sex.
	Cause she said she was on birth control.
	She lied.
	And?
	I did not get her pregnant, thankfully.
	So, so after things didn't end well with her, after she had no, She cheated on me with the ex-boyfriend.
	She eventually started dating someone else at that job a couple months later, after we'd broken up.
	And then I ended up just leaving that job because I couldn't tolerate it anymore.
	And yeah, that's how my first relationship ended.
	Actually, only relationship.
	And how long were you guys going out for?
	Uh, from the time we started talking to the time when we broke up, it was about six months.
	Right.
	And when did you find out she was cheating on you?
	It was, so what happened was I, she started losing interest.
	Cause like, obviously started having sex at the time.
	I wasn't very emotionally stable.
	So I kept like, Leaning on her for complaining to her about my problems.
	I think she got fed up with it because she had her own stuff.
	Um, so towards the end of like, I think the six month mark, just, I remember the night before I can't found out she cheated.
	She wasn't really texting and I was giving her rides to work.
	I mean, Oh, I'll still just, you know, go pick her up next morning.
	I go to her apartment and I see her ex-boyfriend's car there.
	And I call her and she's like, uh, don't come inside.
	Just, just wait for me.
	I told her like, no, have him take you to work.
	I'm going to work on my own.
	And then she said, no, nothing happened.
	I'm like, no, I don't believe you.
	Right.
	Right.
	I'm sorry about all that.
	Very, very tough.
	But no, she had a, If I remember her, she had a bunch of issues.
	I had the, to be blunt, the Captain Save-A-Ho complex because she had all the problems with her childhood.
	I think her mom passed and then her dad was very abusive so she lived with her aunt.
	So I was like, you know, I have two parents too.
	I'll take you in.
	I can fix you.
	Yeah, that didn't go well.
	Right.
	And did she end up, do you know, did she end up going back to her ex?
	Um, she didn't end up going back to her ex.
	She ended up dating another guy there at that job.
	It was like one of the forklift drivers and they ended up, um, together, but I did find out from another coworker, like a year later that I ran into.
	So I asked him, well, whatever happened to her?
	He's like, well, She and that forklift driver got pregnant, but then they broke up and she ended up running off with the kid back to California.
	And that forklift driver also had another kid with another girl.
	So that forklift driver has like a kid with her and a kid with another girl.
	So I'm like, well, at least I avoided that mess.
	Yeah.
	Amen for that, right?
	Okay.
	And, um, I mean, how did you spend your time as a teenager when you weren't dating and stuff like that?
	Most of it was, if I remember right, either it's in front of a screen playing video games and hanging out with my older cousin, we'd go out and just shoot and do stuff.
	I mean, go out shooting or other than that, no, I just remember being, playing a lot of games on the computer, spending time alone.
	Or actually, before I got here, it was like on PlayStation.
	Right, right.
	Right.
	And... Is that still a thing that's happening for you, like video games?
	As of recently?
	No.
	But throughout college, yes, there was a lot of time just, you know, in front of a screen just playing games.
	That's where a lot of my time went.
	Is that solo stuff or communal?
	I would say communal because I was in the overwatch and then I had I met some discord friends there and That's pretty much where my social life was was I remember it would be mostly going to school and then since I didn't really have Very many.
	I didn't really make any friends during college.
	I would just hang out with my older cousin and we would just go out and do go out and Go shoot and do some of his hobbies, which went on to me.
	But if I wasn't with him, I was just at home just playing games or just talking to discord friends.
	And with regards to, I mean, if you're not dating or having any girlfriends, uh, I assume like most young men these days who are single, sexual needs are met through pornography and so on.
	Yeah, I was for like from eighth grade.
	Cause when I first was first exposed to it, to, I'd say until two years ago would watch it, but eventually I noticed that it was like having a bad impact on me.
	So I actually quit on my own.
	So I haven't touched any of that stuff in a couple of years.
	And what was the bad impact?
	Well, one, because one thing that happens is if I, um, how do I explain it?
	So if I have a crush on someone, And then they go for someone else.
	I picture her and like the other dude, like having sex.
	Yeah.
	It's total cuck stuff, right?
	Yeah.
	It's total, like pretty much like cuck stuff.
	And cause you know, cause your brain is just so wired to just watching other people do it.
	That's how my brain is.
	There was, I tried a little bit of online dating.
	I had a couple of six, like I had a couple of dates, but I didn't really go anywhere.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And when was the last time you approached a girl, asked a girl out, pursued a girl?
	Actually, I mean, it was, um, earlier it was like my current job, I guess I didn't learn my lesson, but there's this girl at work that I've been kind of same situation where I've just been obsessed with.
	And that was, I approached and tried to ask her out in September.
	And then we went on one, like, kind of a date.
	I asked her out to boba and I remember I, she was late and I teased her and told her and said, you know, it's kind of a red flag for you to be on the first date, to be late on the first day.
	And she's like, Oh, we'll see if this is a date or not.
	Like crap.
	But you know, we went out boba.
	I just talked for a little bit and, uh, texted her for over the weekend and kind of died off.
	And I didn't really, Talked to her for a bit and a couple of weeks later, I asked her out again to a haunted house, but she wanted to bring a roommate.
	So I just went with it.
	So I just went to the haunted house with her and her roommate and they're both kind of quiet.
	And I was like... Did you say, I'm inviting you to a haunted house so I can ghost you?
	No, I'm just kidding.
	Just kidding.
	Don't, don't do dad humor on kids.
	All right, sorry, go on.
	Um, but I noticed they were in, at that point, I don't have that much dating experience.
	I, I did, I was asking around for some help and I've read some little bit of the Red Pill content from Rollo Tomasi, so I have some understanding on how to talk to girls.
	So I was like, OK, well, I don't want to just sit here and be quiet, so I'll just try to make conversation.
	But it felt like I wasn't breaking the ice very well, other than when we started going inside the haunted house.
	And then we go through the haunted house.
	At the end, I was like, I don't like how this is going.
	So I just told them, well, I'm just going to head home.
	It was fun hanging out with you guys.
	Then for a couple of months, We didn't say anything to each other at work.
	We kind of were just like, not talking.
	Um, and then she started, so the timeline is from September, like late September is when I went out with her first.
	Then two weeks later, I asked her out again.
	And after that, we didn't talk for a couple of months.
	Then I noticed she started taking interest again.
	Like, okay, she's coming back around.
	We started talking then.
	I asked her, hey, well, let's go hang out at your place for a little bit.
	Then I went for a move.
	I got rejected.
	Things were kind of... Sorry, how long ago was this?
	So that, I went for the move in November.
	That was in November, around Thanksgiving.
	And then things just went quiet.
	It was awkward.
	So we didn't really talk to each other at work until...
	A month ago, in January, she came back around again, and she started talking to me, and I was like, okay.
	So I hung out with her again, and I asked her if she just wanted to hang out.
	She was like, sure, but again, I guess she didn't want to be alone with me, so she invited her other roommate.
	So we just went out, hung out for a bit at her place.
	I didn't try anything.
	And then afterwards, actually at the end of the hangout, I asked for a hug.
	I think I was really weird about it.
	And then they were like, cause she didn't want to.
	I kind of just egged her about it.
	I was trying to be, I was trying to be playful, but I guess it came out really weird.
	Cause afterwards that Monday, um, she, I noticed that she didn't seem like she wanted to talk to me.
	And I asked her later that week, like, Hey, what's wrong?
	Pretty much.
	And she's like, well, that hug thing kind of weirded me out.
	And I'm like, oh yeah, that's true.
	I can see how that would weird you out.
	And pretty much after that, ghosted me and she's going after another guy at work.
	So I'm like, crap.
	So I haven't spoken to her since.
	Okay.
	And do you have any sort of thoughts or ideas about how to get a girl to talk to you?
	Nope, not really.
	What i've been doing cuz i know step four from her from my took her out for the first time how bad my talking skills
	are with people like how like how bad i am holding a conversation i was very fortunate she's
	what ever chatterbox is really good in conversations but i know it's like yeah.
	I'm kinda quiet and don't talk much so i did i found some advice on youtube is a well if you suck a conversation when
	you do is just when you're on public.
	What cashiers are just in line with someone just start some small talk.
	So I've been doing that to help, you know, learn how to talk to people.
	And then when I took her out for the third time with her roommate, I noticed that I was able to hold a better conversation and it was more fun.
	What is it that you're attracted to with these girls?
	I mean, obviously there's the physical aspect.
	Is there anything else?
	Because, you know, normally if you are You know, getting along with someone or you like that person, usually the conversation flows fairly easily.
	That's one of the ways you know that the liking is kind of real rather than just physical.
	So, what is it that's drawing you to these girls that you can't talk with?
	My thing with her was because, you know, she could actually, you know, talk and I didn't have to.
	She was very talkative and she had a lot of energy.
	And that's pretty much... Okay, so she takes a burden off you, that's nice, I guess, but what about, like, what is she doing?
	What are her virtues, or is she thoughtful, kind, considerate, warm, do you share values?
	Or is she just like, oh, thank goodness, she talks so I don't have to.
	I mean, that's not much of a basis for a relationship, right?
	After thinking about it, it was...
	I can't really think what I like about her other than the fact that she just, you know, talked to me pretty much.
	That's the only thing I can think of.
	Okay, so could you think of a girl that you have been attracted to that has some value compatibility, anything, anything, where it's like you share some, I mean, assume you're into philosophy, are they into philosophy?
	Do you share tastes in art?
	Life approaches, or religion, or non-religion, or like, what?
	I'm trying to figure out how you're picking these women.
	Uh...
	Most of these women I've pretty much just picked because I was physically attracted to,
	but I'm not really into thinking about that stuff you just talked about.
	Okay, so it's just lust?
	Pretty much.
	Okay, so the women are totally wise to not go out with you, is that fair to say?
	Like it's a good call, right?
	I mean, you know, if you have a daughter at some point in your life and she says, yeah, this guy wants to go out with me, he doesn't even know what I think or what I care about or anything like that, but he keeps looking at my boobs, what are you going to say?
	Find another guy.
	Yeah, like don't date that guy, right?
	That's not good, right?
	That's just, that's a sin, right?
	Like lust or whatever you want to call it, right?
	So, let me ask you this.
	If you sort of think about applying this filter going back through time, right?
	You think about applying this filter.
	Can you think of women or girls that you have known or met that could fit the standard that you might have something in common?
	In terms of like more than just, you know, the body parts that fit together roughly?
	Actually, I can think of one.
	I think it was one of my, like way back in high school, one of my homecoming days.
	She was very nice, very sweet.
	I think she also wanted to be, you know, a stay-at-home mom.
	And looking back at her, she really wasn't into, you know, partying or any and all that stuff.
	Virtue, she was a very honest, very honest girl.
	And I actually didn't really, you know, try to get to know her too much because, you know, lust.
	But I lost my train of thought.
	Well, why didn't you date her?
	Um, what happened was with her, I went for a kiss, but she didn't want it.
	That was a really awkward kiss.
	Oh, you did try and date her, but she didn't want to date you.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Got it.
	Anyone else?
	Actually, one more was my prom date.
	Very similar.
	Again, she didn't want to date me, but I remember her just being very similar to my homecoming date where I would talk to her, but she was actually very nice, too.
	Actually, now that I think about it, I didn't really get to know these girls very well.
	I never really asked too much about them.
	I never really got to know them very well.
	And is that because you felt awkward in terms of conversation?
	Yeah, I was very awkward with conversation because I was always too afraid to talk about myself, or I didn't know what questions or how to, you know, talk to and get to know people.
	Right, okay, okay.
	And is there anything that I need to know in terms of where we are up to now.
	I mean, do you want to tell me a bit more about college?
	I know you did the, um, you did computer science two years, didn't work for you.
	You did the mechanical stuff and got some experience in welding or engineering, but that didn't work for you too well.
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	So the talk about college is I did enough just to, you know, graduate because the welding, the actual manufacturing engineering part, I'm not too interested in.
	So Mostly I was just into the welding part of just, you know, physically welding.
	But since I didn't go to a tech school and it certified me, I only did the welding labs.
	So my friend was a, and since I wasn't too passionate about it, because what you're supposed to do is during college for engineering, you're supposed to go in for an internship, but I actually never worked in the field.
	I just kept working part time at a hospital because my boss at the time was, um, Very flexible in my schedule.
	So I kind of just stuck there because the pay was part-time.
	The pay was somewhat decent.
	So I just stuck through there, but never actually went into my field till after I graduated.
	Did have an experience there, but my friend works at this, uh, the company I'm working for now is a fabricator.
	He's like, well, you can, you can probably, I can probably get you a job here and then you can get experience and then use your degree later.
	And this was in August when I started working in my current company.
	And so I've been working in fabrication since I'm like, and I talked to the engineers so they know that I have a degree and they know I'm trying to work towards it.
	And I'm, but I'm just looking at the work they're doing and I'm just telling myself, no, this really, I really wasn't into this.
	This is not what I want.
	So I'm just currently thinking about doing just a career change while I'm still young.
	I'm able to just change my path.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Uh, the funny thing is too, during the hospital is like looking back since I was, there was a lot of like CNAs that were my age, but I didn't really know how to approach and talk.
	So I kind of just kept to myself and looking back, I was, I'm like, dang, that would have been a good time to practice talking to girls when you're surrounded by them.
	But I never, I mean, other than lust, right?
	Why do you want to talk to girls?
	What value do you see?
	I mean, you had a pretty rough start with femininity, right?
	I mean, your grandmother beating you up, and your mother abandoning you to that, and not just abandoning you, but delivering you to that.
	I mean, what's your positive experience with women, or females as a whole?
	Not very positive, overall.
	Not very positive?
	I really don't know what to make of vague statements like that.
	Okay.
	I think overall my experience with women hasn't been too good.
	Are we still doing all this vague stuff, hasn't been too good, not too positive, blah blah blah blah blah?
	I mean, the value you get out of it, this conversation, is going to be the less equivocation or the less goo that I get.
	So I'm not sure how to answer.
	Well tell me the negative for women that you've experienced in the course of your
	life.
	Um...
	The most negative one I experienced was just that ex-girlfriend.
	But then after that, I never really went out and tried to talk to women in general.
	So the only bad experience I've had, like experience with women I've really had, was just with that ex-girlfriend.
	Just it being, you know, totally horrible.
	So not by the grandmother?
	Mother and grandmother.
	Now, my experience with my grandmother is totally horrible.
	Right now, my current relationship with my mom, we don't really talk much, even though we live together, so we don't talk too much or interact very much.
	Other than when I see her when I get home, but we don't really talk because she's just glued onto her phone.
	Is your grandmother still alive?
	She is.
	So with her, right now she's at school.
	I don't see her very often, but with my older cousin, who's in his late 30s, my cousin still attached her.
	So she still goes to his house.
	I'm sorry, he's still what, her?
	So the way I see it is with my older cousin, my grandma still treats him like he's still eight.
	And my older cousin went through the Navy, but then came home, then moved out into his own house.
	But she'll go to his house and clean for him and clean the house once a week.
	But when I see them interact, It's like she's still treating him like he's 10 years old.
	Like she'll still nag him and everything.
	Okay.
	And that's kind of what my mom is doing to my older brother.
	Is they still kind of baby him, but they kind of just leave me alone.
	They don't really say much.
	Cause there are times where I have, you know, just stood up for myself and just been like, no, I don't want to, don't talk to me that way.
	Okay, and what about in terms of extended family or other moms or aunts or other grandmothers, in terms of positive female interactions or women you would admire, women you would look up to and would want to have in your life?
	So this is just women that I know of?
	Well, that you have some interaction with and not just someone you've read about in a book or something.
	I would say, yeah, my best friend's, one of my best friend's wife.
	She's a stay-at-home mom, and she refuses to, no, she's like, yeah, I'm homeschooling my kids.
	I'm not sending them to government school.
	And she's been a pretty loyal wife to my friend.
	Yeah, because they've been, they're high school sweethearts.
	I watched their whole, I watched their whole marriage.
	I saw them get together, get engaged, and now they're on their kid number two.
	And so you admire her?
	Yeah.
	I do.
	All right.
	That's good.
	I actually just visited him yesterday.
	I can't believe I didn't think about that.
	Right, right.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And how do you find talking with her?
	I actually enjoy it.
	We get along quite well.
	She talks to me, we catch up.
	She's a very positive person.
	I like to joke and tease.
	I kind of treat her like a little sister, even though we're the same age.
	Right, okay.
	Does she have any friends?
	Her?
	No, she's been busy with the kids, so she doesn't really go out and talk to other friends.
	Other than our other friend from high school, she kind of will talk to His wife, but those two kind of just... I mean, does she have any friends for you?
	Friends for me?
	No, she does not.
	And right now you have no particular prospects for dating.
	And as far as particular prospects for career, nothing's imminent, if I understand this correctly.
	Well, what I'm thinking of doing as a career change is, since I'm not really liking this field other than the welding part, but I actually want to...
	For long-term, I don't think being a welder is going to pay as much as I would want it to, even if I just stay one for many years.
	So I'm actually thinking of going into aviation, just becoming a pilot and just doing a total 180 flip and just changing careers.
	And what makes you think of piloting?
	Well, since I've grew up here near an Air Force base, I've always just liked seeing the planes take off.
	I've always been curious about it.
	That's one of those things if I see on YouTube, I'll just watch the footage or if I'm out, you know, traveling or I'll be on the plane and then just think about like, what is the pilot doing?
	What is it like to pilot one of these things?
	And that's how it goes with jets or just helicopters, especially when I saw the life flight pilots working at the hospital when the helicopters would land.
	I mean, that'd be such a cool job to have.
	And I started thinking about more recently, I'm like, you know what?
	I think I might actually like aviation.
	Cause one of those things was in the back of my head trying to get through school.
	You know, I didn't want to go to school.
	I mean, it's a lot of work to become a pilot.
	I mean, obviously there's a training, you need to get a certain number of hours in and so on.
	Right.
	Have you looked into how long it's, how long does it take to become a pilot?
	It'll take a couple of years, but I mean, a paid pilot, somebody with a good career.
	Yeah.
	So for a good career, actually my therapist was the one who I told him about this.
	He said, yeah, if you, Go through the flight school since the pilot situation right now.
	I think junior, he said junior pilots are going to start making 120k a year.
	And I'm like, looking at the work, I'm just like, I wouldn't mind actually doing, learning that type of stuff.
	It does interest me.
	So putting in the work, I wouldn't mind doing that.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	So, I mean, as far as career goes, sounds like you've got it down.
	As far as dating goes, not much, right?
	And so what would you most like to get out of the conversation with me tonight?
	So My thing is just learning or just some advice on how to be more social because right now I'm just trying to Go out there and just meet new people, but I'm struggling to you know, talk to people or just Approaching girls in general since I don't really have a lot of friends and Yeah, when you say you don't have a lot of friends, you've said that a couple of times now.
	I mean, how many good, close, solid friends do you have?
	Two.
	Oh, that's not too bad!
	That's not too bad.
	Just so you know, that's not terrible.
	Alright.
	And are they in the same kind of boat that you were in?
	Uh, so my two... both of them?
	One's still with her husband.
	of that girl I was just telling you about. And the other is, has a girlfriend. It's the one that I work with right now.
	He's the one that got me the job.
	But most of the time they're kind of just with their girlfriends. I'll ask to hang out occasionally, but they
	don't really, they just want to spend time with their families. We'll go out occasionally, but nothing, nothing
	too, nothing too special.
	So, I mean, as far as, like, close friends you can spend a lot of time with, it's not those guys, right?
	Yeah.
	So, is it zero?
	I'm not trying to be critical, I just want to know what it is.
	I'd say it is zero.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And why do you want to socialize?
	I mean, I know that sounds like an odd question, but it's just the kind of thing, like, what's the purpose?
	Like, why do you want to socialize?
	What do you want to get out of socializing?
	Well, from just what I've seen on YouTube and looking at some of the Red Pill content, it does help to have a social group to go out and just do stuff with to be a bit more, you know, interesting.
	Well, I mean, you're in your mid-twenties, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	So people, I mean, people usually either have a social group by now or they don't, right?
	So you'd either need to gather together other people with few, if any, social skills, or you'd need to find some group that already has people, right?
	Yeah.
	So what do you think would be more practical for you?
	I think it would be more practical for me to find a social group and just try to get in there, rather than try to make my own.
	And so, think of it from the... I mean, this is the resistance, right?
	And I'm not trying to dissuade you.
	I think it's great to try and find a social group.
	But you've got to look at the challenges, right?
	So, if you look at it from the other, right?
	There's a group of, I don't know, eight friends.
	They've known each other from, like, I don't know, junior high or something like that.
	They understand each other's jokes.
	They have all this shared history.
	They know each other very well.
	And you come along, right?
	So, what's their incentive to bring you in?
	Uh, you know what?
	I don't know.
	I don't think there would be much incentive to bring me in, other than if I should... Well, that's why, that's why, you gotta fix that, right?
	Yeah.
	Right?
	It's like, otherwise it's just like, uh, hey, uh, Brad Pitt, I'd love to come with you for the, to the premiere of your movie.
	Okay?
	And what are you bringing to the table?
	Well, I really want to come to the premiere.
	Yes, I understand that, but you're not part of the movie.
	You're not, you know, gaining me any positive Right, so, these are people who've got good social skills, you're coming in, or you're around, and you don't have particularly good social skills, what would you bring to the table?
	That's what you've got to know.
	Okay.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah.
	Because if you can't answer that question, well, what do you bring to the table?
	Then you're just kind of faking it.
	And you're just kind of making, like, then it's all about you and what you need, right?
	Well, I need a social group.
	Yeah.
	Lots of women need a good husband.
	Doesn't mean I'm going to leave my wife, right?
	And you know that, that actually does make a lot of sense, especially with that, you know, the two, the girls that I did try to date is, I don't actually don't know what I brought to the table.
	Well, and they didn't either, which is why it didn't work out.
	So what could you bring to the table?
	Because that's why if you want to join an existing friend group, then you have to bring a lot to the table.
	Because they already have a friend group, why would they want to take the risk on someone new?
	I mean they already have eight people who hang out, it's been working for 10 or 15 years, everyone knows you.
	What's the plus of a new person?
	That's what you gotta kinda answer.
	And listen, lots of people have to answer this all the time, right?
	They go to college, they move to a new place, whatever, right?
	I mean, they gotta make a whole new friend group, or they gotta, right?
	So, that's the question you gotta ask and answer with confidence.
	What do you bring to the table?
	I mean, it's the same thing with a job, right?
	I need a job is not a way to get a job, right?
	It's like, yeah, I get it.
	I need a million dollars.
	Doesn't mean I'm going to wake up tomorrow with a million dollars under the doorstep, right?
	So that's the question.
	Now, if you want to make your own friend group, that's different, right?
	Because then everybody has that need for the friend group, but then, you know, you're trying to build a friend group, which is certainly possible, but it's tough to do when you're trying to build a friend group with people who don't have many social skills, right?
	I mean, it could be done, right?
	It could be done.
	But you're trying to, you know, if you want to join a choir, you've got to be a good singer, So that's the question, right?
	I mean the reason I'm saying all of this, sorry to interrupt, the reason that I'm saying
	all this is that you grew up with very selfish people around.
	Your parents were very selfish.
	Right?
	They wanted to come to America, so they bring you to America.
	They don't help you integrate much.
	They don't train you much.
	They put you... Not only are you not in modern America, you're in, like, 1,200 years ago Philippines with your ancient grandmother, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	So, I mean, they really kind of crippled you, right?
	Yeah.
	And it was... You know, your dad got angry, he just indulged and yelled and hit and he'd lie to you and your mother wanted to go to work and your dad wanted to work overtime and nobody ever asked you what you want, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	Like, okay, well, what's best for you, right?
	What's best for you?
	And that's...
	The thing I've noticed, too, is whenever I would try to hang out with friends, or just be a part of the group, I would just do what they wanted.
	If that makes sense.
	It was... Well, because you're not used to having your needs met, you're not used to negotiating needs, because your parents just told you to jump and you said, how high?
	And that's, in my view, and I think more than in just my view, that's bad parenting.
	It's very bad parenting.
	So yeah, that does make a lot of sense, because now looking at it, it's like, I keep asking myself, well, I want a friend group, but not asking, well, Yeah, what do they want?
	Yeah, I mean, you wanting a friend group is great.
	I want a Lamborghini.
	The question is, what value do I bring to the Lamborghini owner?
	Right, so it's great, you want a friend group, fantastic.
	Then that's good, you've identified something that you want, but then you have to say, okay, so what do I have to offer?
	I mean, if you want to be a welder, you've got to offer welding skills, right?
	You want to be a pilot, be nice if you knew how to fly.
	I'm not sure it's required these days, but it's nice.
	It's a plus.
	So, and the same thing with girls, right?
	With women, right?
	You want a quality woman?
	Fantastic.
	Good stuff.
	What do you bring into the table?
	Right?
	It's the fundamental question of life.
	Why choose me?
	Why would someone choose me?
	And you know, that's kind of the issue I think I've also had, is the asking why choose me.
	Because there are times where I'm just like, because of all the abuse from the kids, one of the things my dad would do is just be like, you're stupid, you're an idiot.
	So I never really had that much self-worth.
	Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And that's selfish on his part, and destructive, and wrong.
	So yeah, I never really saw myself as someone really worth much to people.
	Sure.
	Well, not just, I mean, weren't you, sorry, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so tell me if I'm wrong, of course, but didn't you perceive yourself as an irritant, as a negative, as a problem, as someone who didn't get good grades, as somebody that annoyed people all the time, as somebody that made people angry, as somebody, like, didn't you just experience yourself?
	This is just negative and a problem.
	I'm just negative and a problem.
	Yeah, because, like, another thing you mentioned there is whenever I'd hang out with my friends, I'd go do something or just express myself, but then I just leave and go home with really bad anxiety.
	Like, oh no, what do they think of me?
	Maybe I annoyed them.
	Well, they haven't responded, just like really bad anxiety of what they thought of me, because I just thought I was just a nuisance.
	Right.
	And that's because your parents did, I mean, really just about the cruelest thing around.
	And the cruelest thing around is to have a child and then neglect and reject that child.
	That is just about the cruelest thing around.
	Because you can't get your sustenance from anyone except your parents.
	You can't get your social skills, your sense of self-worth, your sense that you have value.
	You can't get that from anyone except your parents.
	And so they have you, And then they kind of starve you in a way.
	And then you got to go out there in the world and try to make a go of it.
	I think that's probably, I think that's why I went, I was just going, like, I've been go obsessing over this girl at work for since, you know, August, September.
	And just now that you say that, I think I've just been obsessing with her, because I'm just trying to tie myself more.
	If I get her, I'll get my needs met that I didn't get from my parents, if that makes sense.
	No, that totally makes sense.
	I think that's a very wise thing to say, to sort of work and try and understand.
	Because with her, it's just been non-stop obsessing with my friends.
	And that's what actually sent me to... Actually, my friend's girlfriend was the one.
	Cause she's going to therapy.
	She's like, I think you need to try it too.
	And I'm like, and listening to your shows, I'm just like, yes, I think it's time.
	Cause there's a disconnect here.
	Cause the way I'm just, uh, feeling with her is like very, like a strong attachment, even though we didn't, I don't know her too well, don't know what I like about her, but then I'm just like obsessing as if we're been dating for years.
	So I'm just like, OK, there's something not right here.
	And that's actually what triggered me to call in, because I'm like, OK, there's something wrong.
	This isn't good, because if this is going to happen with her, it's going to happen with people after her.
	Well, so avoiding the pain of neglect.
	Neglect is one of the worst forms of abuse, in my opinion.
	The only thing that's worth it is sexual abuse.
	But neglect is really horrible, because you feel like you don't have anything to offer.
	You feel on the outside, you feel like you're Through a piece of thick, dark glass you're watching Elfs.
	Everyone else in the world, have fun!
	and get their lives going, and you just feel lost and abandoned and ghost-like and half not there, and this is why you take refuge into video games, because the lack of self that comes from neglect is really tough.
	And listen, again, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, this is what I think might be happening, I don't know for sure, obviously, so if I'm saying anything that doesn't fit with your thoughts or experience, let me know and I'll completely recalibrate, but I think that's probably the first place that I would look.
	You struck something there, because I never thought of it from the perspective of neglect.
	Since I wasn't, you know, getting my needs met, I can see why.
	You have to get your needs met, right?
	I mean, I hate to sort of be a nitpicker, but if someone locks me in their basement and they don't feed me and I say, well, I'm just not getting my needs met, it's like I'm trapped.
	Yeah.
	No, it's torture.
	And I'm not saying your parents were consciously doing this, but the effects are torture.
	Ostracism arouses or stimulates the same part of the brain as physical torture.
	Neglect is physical torture for children because it puts you in a constant state of anxiety.
	Do you know why?
	Because they might not fucking feed me.
	They might not save me.
	They might not Protect me!
	I might be picked last if there's a wolf around.
	They might scoop up all the other kids that may be coming to me last.
	I might not survive.
	The bond is not strong enough that I feel secure in my safety and attachment.
	You're unprotected and helpless and vulnerable.
	You know, children are easily hunted and killed.
	I don't know if you've ever seen these videos.
	You can see them sometimes on social media.
	It's some toddler playing by the glass of a lion's enclosure or a lion place at the zoo.
	Or a tiger.
	Have you ever seen those?
	No, I've not.
	Yeah, so the kids are just dum-di-dum.
	They're playing with their feet or whatever.
	And what is on the glass, right?
	And what's creeping up on the other side of the glass?
	The tiger.
	The tiger, right?
	And the tiger pounces.
	Like, that little kid's gonna, like, it's gonna have his head ripped off in about a tenth of a second.
	Children, uh, toddlers, uh, children, we're like death magnets at that age.
	Like, we fall into the fire, and you know, or we go out and we just eat some, oh, we ate the red berry which will kill you, not the blueberry which is tasty.
	You know, I said when I was a kid, my My father was playing, I was a baby, I think I could crawl but not walk, so I was probably about maybe a year, a little under, and my father was playing tennis and left me unattended outside the tennis court.
	I crawled around, I guess I saw a weed killer, I guess it was in a bright container, and kids of course think of bright containers as Tasty or whatever. This is I think long before any kind of
	childproof caps or whatever. I drank weed killer and I almost died
	Because I was unattended My father was not protecting me. It's one of the reasons my
	mother divorced him by the way. I I was... I think they divorced before that
	So I was very young.
	I don't remember this, other than I have vague memories, but I'm pretty much convinced that those vague memories are just people telling me the story or me hearing the story.
	But I think it's one of the reasons.
	I think it's one of the reasons, I think that they were already separated at this point, but I think it's one of the reasons why I was never allowed in my father's care again, alone.
	And it never happened.
	I guess when I was 16 or whatever, I went to visit him.
	So, if you don't have an attentive, caring parent, you live in a constant state of anxiety, because you have nothing between you and the almost certain death that will arise, if you're unattended.
	This is why children want to be close to their parents.
	This is why they love sitting in their parents' laps.
	This is why they love laughing and playing with their parents, because it's creating that bond that means the parent will tell them, well, don't eat that, eat this.
	Don't fall into the fire.
	Don't tumble down the cliff.
	My brother was left unattended in the car when he was very little and he took the parking brake off because he was just so bored.
	He was just playing with stuff.
	Car rolled down a hill.
	Oh.
	like, I don't know, risky business style, right?
	There was a kid in my neighborhood who got out the wrong side of a car
	and just stepped into traffic and got instantly killed by a car speeding past.
	Because he was unattended, he was unprotected.
	Neglect arouses death panic in children, which is maybe why you feel this sense of anxiety sometimes.
	Yeah, because whenever, you know, My friends, or any girl I'm talking to, would stop talking to me.
	I would just feel anxiety of just, you know, being a bandit.
	Friends wouldn't talk to me, or they'd leave me unread, or not invite me to something.
	You feel kind of invisible, right?
	Exactly.
	Right.
	Because you are invisible to your parents, and identity comes out of interaction for human beings, because we're social animals, right?
	So identity comes out of interaction.
	And you've talked about some of the brutality of your grandmother.
	Did she play with you?
	Did she enjoy your company?
	Did she look forward to seeing you?
	Were there any big hugs and kisses and Monopoly games or what?
	I don't know, whatever she would play.
	Nope, nothing.
	It was just, she was very rude.
	Cause take a little anecdote is I'd be sitting and watching TV.
	She would just sit in front of me and just change the channel without even asking first.
	And then like you're a ghost, like you don't matter.
	Right.
	So you don't matter.
	Same thing with my parents.
	Your preferences don't exist.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I try to, you know, express myself growing up sometimes, and they would just actually physically just ignore me.
	Right.
	I mean, I get the little laugh there, but this is seriously not funny, right?
	I don't mean to be, like, mean or harsh to you or anything like that.
	No, no, it's true.
	Like, it's really not funny.
	Children whose parents don't take delight in their existence are growing up half crippled.
	I mean, it doesn't mean you've got to stay crippled or anything, because you've got to identify what the issue is.
	But it's brutal.
	It's incredibly stressful for children to be neglected.
	Which is a lot of times why children will act out just to get parental attention.
	Like, if you don't care about me at all, I'm going to get left behind when we pack up camp and go and follow the bison herds, right?
	So, I'd rather, like, I'll provoke you Into getting angry at me and venting on me because then at least I'm serving some value to you.
	If I'm not serving any value to you, even as a punching bag when you're upset,
	then you're just going to leave me behind.
	So you've got this moat of parental indifference and grand parental indifference.
	You have this moat around you.
	Which is, I mean, it's the foundational question of all us kids who were neglected.
	But damn, man, if my mother and my father didn't even care about me, if my grandmother didn't care about me, if I'm just an annoyance and an irritant to them, who the hell is gonna care about me ever?
	And, you know, you just pit it home there, because that's just usually how I've felt most of my life, too.
	Just like, who cares about me?
	Right.
	Right.
	So it's kind of tough to get your life going, right?
	You don't want to be your parents.
	You don't know how to be different.
	Yep.
	Cause like I said, anytime I just, even with some of my friends, every time I express myself, there's fear afterwards of like, ah, did I express it too hard?
	Did I do something that upset them?
	Will they leave me?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	And it makes perfect sense because of course, when you would When you would upset your parents, right, they would just attack you, or ignore you, or abandon you, or whatever it is, right?
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, because this is where a lot of my, you know, approach anxiety comes from.
	Trying to talk to, you know, a girl, I could say at CNA, at the hospital job, I just try to start a conversation.
	There are times afterwards I'd be like, oh, did I say something wrong?
	Maybe she didn't like me.
	Just afraid that, you know, Afterwards, you'd just be like, who's this weirdo?
	Right.
	Right.
	I'm just a weirdo.
	I don't have any value to offer.
	Nobody's going to take pleasure in my company.
	And I'm not interesting.
	I'm not funny.
	And I've just, but, but, but I desperately need, I desperately need company while at the same time, not feeling like I have anything to offer.
	That's how every single time I felt like when I talked to a girl, like she's Who's really cute.
	I don't think I'm good enough for her.
	Maybe I don't offer anything.
	Just a dude.
	Right.
	I'm just an NPC.
	Looking for help, right?
	It's an NPC.
	That's a sim character.
	So, I mean, tell me a little bit about what I'm saying and how it hits you and feels like it fits.
	No, it fits perfectly well, the feeling of, you know, feeling of abandonment and neglect.
	Because that's how it usually will, especially, especially with that ex-girlfriend and that current girl now, it's just when they would, when they stopped talking to me or I noticed they were just starting to pay attention to me less, it was just panic of like, oh my gosh, I'm being neglected.
	What do I do? Because these guys actually showed me attention.
	They showed that they, you know, they're like, these guys actually show like they're interested in me.
	I'm actually interesting.
	And then when they started tapering off and stopped talking to me,
	I was like, oh gosh.
	And I just felt this panic and anxiety and depression because of it.
	But what you said really hit home.
	Right.
	So, what to do?
	And that's why I've just been thinking, I was like, hey, what do I do to, you know,
	make myself feel like I actually have value in people's lives?
	Obviously just not be in the basement and play video games and actually go out and, you know, do stuff.
	Right.
	I think that's the big question I'm going to be asking myself is like, what can I bring to people's table?
	Yes.
	And, you know, please understand that it makes perfect sense that you feel this way.
	Did your older brother, how's he doing?
	Oh, he's just, um, the only friends he really has are his online friends on discord.
	And he's just content.
	It was just being at home because he moved out for a little bit, then rent was too expensive.
	So he moved back in.
	Most of the time he just spends, you know, on his weekends, just on the computer, talking to his online friends.
	And I actually- You mean like gaming?
	Or what do you mean talking about what?
	Uh, gaming.
	Yeah.
	He's got, uh, friends that he's met on discord.
	He's met them in person before.
	Uh, most of the time is he's just sits at home and just games doesn't really go out anywhere.
	Right.
	So he's kind of, uh, I mean, he's kind of a warning, right?
	Isn't he?
	Yeah.
	That's the him and both him and my older cousin.
	Cause my older cousins in.
	He's like his late thirties, but still isn't with anyone.
	But most of the time he spends on the weekends, just either with his mom and that grandma or playing video games.
	Right.
	So, I mean, no, ironically enough, he's the one who showed, he's the one who showed me you.
	Oh, good.
	Okay.
	Tell him I said hi.
	Uh, so, so no one who's been neglected in this kind of way is doing it all well.
	Is that right?
	Yup.
	No one, no one.
	Okay.
	Right.
	So good for you for breaking this cycle, right?
	I'm actually trying to get my brother to move out with me this summer because I told him either move out with me or I'll figure it out on my own.
	And I think he's leaning more towards moving out because I told him like, look, we can't just be like this because his computer is in the living room of the basement.
	That's where like the only place we could put it.
	That's where his setup is.
	And what triggered me to just get on him was because he put a shelf where his area is.
	I'm like, you're too comfortable here, man.
	This is not good.
	Like a snack and drink shelf?
	Just like a bookshelf for his like figures.
	So I told him, no, don't sit on here.
	His figures?
	Oh, it's like figurines?
	Yeah, figures and books.
	He's into like, uh, Gundam, like anime stuff.
	Oh, good.
	So I was like, no, you do that at your own place.
	Is this who you want to move out with?
	That's true.
	Is this necessarily the best idea?
	Now that you say it that way.
	Probably not, no.
	I do want to learn how to swim.
	If I could just get a boat anchor around my leg, I appreciate the challenge.
	No, that's true.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I mean, I don't know your relationship, but I wouldn't automatically assume that it's necessarily the best idea.
	Just, you know.
	It's probably something I think about now.
	Well, it could be something like, I don't want to do it alone, but there's a price to be paid for that, right?
	I mean, is he going nuts with his life, or is he like, yeah, everything's good?
	For him, right now, it's just, you know, everything's good.
	Just, you know, stay at home and just save up money.
	And I recently listened to your podcast with the, I think that another guy who just, the thing was living at home because it saved money, but your argument of it doesn't save money is true.
	It really doesn't.
	It's better just to be out there and just Have the fire under your ass.
	But his thing was like, I just want to look back at home because rent's too expensive and just wait for the housing market to crash.
	That's what his strategy and I told him.
	Well, that's not going to happen as long as immigration stays high.
	So, all right.
	Yeah.
	I mean, and you can't let other people, they know bad environment situations and so on.
	Uh, you know, when I, when I was, I mean, in the early nineties, there was a terrible recession.
	I couldn't find work.
	I'm still got to find, still got to do something.
	It's not war, right?
	All right.
	All right, so then the question is, of course, what do you do, right?
	I mean, there's always this, okay, so there's the insight, and then it's, what do you do?
	That's, I actually don't know what to do.
	I can tell you!
	Go ahead!
	No, no, listen, if you've got more to say, I don't want to interrupt.
	No, no, go ahead.
	Okay.
	So you have to fiercely, fiercely, fiercely disagree with your parents' and your grandmother's assessment of you.
	You guys are wrong.
	And it was terrible to me that you were so wrong.
	So you have to very str... I mean, I'm not going to get all fired up here, right, but you have to extremely strenuously disagree with your parents ignoring of you.
	Mm-hmm.
	If that makes sense.
	It makes sense.
	You know, looking back at it now, someone's like, you know, I was actually When I was a kid, I had a lot of energy.
	I think I was an interesting kid.
	I mean, you're into philosophy.
	You're okay in my book.
	But no, you guys are wrong.
	And they'd say, well, look, of course we were, you know, I mean, they might say something like, well, how wrong are we?
	All you do is sit and play video games.
	How interesting are you?
	You just struck a chord there.
	Restful day.
	You say you're so interesting.
	What evidence is there of that?
	You got no girl.
	You got no friends.
	Got no career.
	I'd be like, but that's on you as the parents.
	Do they know your grandmother's violence?
	Oh, they know.
	Right.
	Do they care?
	Nope.
	No.
	No one really did.
	So they bring you to America where children are raised more peacefully and then they have you raised by the Filipino Crypt Keeper.
	and actually throwing you back in time when taking you to the new world.
	So, no, they didn't do right by you.
	you They did not do right by you.
	And you've got to strenuously disagree with their assessment.
	Have you?
	Mm-hmm.
	You're wrong.
	Yeah, I'm having trouble now, but that's because you guys didn't give me...
	You know, it sort of didn't give me what I need.
	It's sort of like saying...
	You say, I'm stunt lick if you were.
	I'm stunted because you didn't give me enough food when I was growing up.
	And they say, well, look how small you are.
	We didn't need to feed you much.
	It's like, no, no, I'm small because you didn't feed me.
	You didn't not feed me because I'm small.
	To go back to that cousin is what they do.
	They always nag him about how he doesn't have a wife yet or how he doesn't have a girlfriend.
	But considering he grew up in the same conditions as me, both his parents... Actually, same way, both his parents were.
	They weren't around.
	He was stuck with that grandma.
	And they get mad at him for not, you know, finding a wife.
	Finding a wife by now.
	And they don't say to themselves, gee I wonder why all our children in the family, I wonder
	why it's all such a day, all so disastrous at the moment, right?
	They don't ask that question.
	It's all the kid's fault.
	You kids just don't do it.
	You're not doing the right thing.
	You're not doing it right.
	And then if you try to push back against them, it's... Look at what we did for you growing up.
	We fed you.
	Oh, wow.
	You know who else gets fed?
	Fed political prisoners.
	They get shelter and health care.
	Yeah.
	They didn't love you at all.
	Well, we showed our love and money and it's like, Oh God, what do you even say?
	And one thing, and you say, and the thing is too, with my dad as well, part of the reason why he didn't want us out socializing with Kids is because he's like, God, you can white people don't know what they're, what they're doing.
	They're stupid.
	He's like a hard Democrat.
	So if you're white, you're racist.
	Oh, like, so he's got the whole anti-white thing going.
	Oh yeah.
	It's excellent.
	Cause like, I'm sure this is all going to work out beautifully.
	He actually almost kicked me out of the house because I voted for Trump.
	Wow.
	I actually know what happened was I was going to, then he took my ballot and voted for me.
	Oh, did he?
	Yeah.
	Literally engaged in election fraud.
	I'm sure that people would love to hear all about this.
	It was like, yeah, every single time on the TV.
	Actually, they were just talking about how, like, my mom's boss makes more than her boss because, you know, he's white, so he gets, like, more money because of these people.
	I'm just like, huh?
	It chooses to come and live in a, anyway.
	Yeah, no, it's, uh, it's excellent stuff.
	I actually grew up for a little while during growing up.
	It's because I was actually just like, it rubbed off on me.
	I'm just like, God, these freaking white kids.
	And then looking back now, ironically enough, all my good friends were no white kids.
	Well, and it's funny too, because certainly for myself, um, it's a certain kind of lighting trick or sometimes it's the way the shadows fall, but I can actually look kind of white.
	Like.
	In my own way.
	I can pass for white, that's my general approach to life.
	Which I'm quite excited about.
	I'm just kidding, I'm about as white as they come.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I actually don't, if you were to see me you wouldn't think I'm Filipino because of my height.
	Oh yeah?
	You're like the Filipino Ent?
	Yeah, I'm 6'2", so when I go to a family reunion it's like Gandalf amongst the dwarves.
	Oh, the hobbits.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Why are you guys so big?
	Well, they neglected me emotionally, but at least they took care of me physically because they fed me.
	So I got big.
	Is your brother tall too, or just you?
	Just me.
	I'm the weirdo.
	I'm the tallest one in my family.
	I am six inches taller than my brother.
	I'm trying to think of a way you don't fit in somewhere.
	Do a don't fit in somewhere.
	That's a weird thing, right?
	Yeah.
	All right.
	I mean, you could pass in the Philippines, but mostly as a man-god, who would demand virgin sacrifices.
	Maybe that's how you could meet girls, I don't know, but it's important to remember.
	So yeah, you just have to strenuously disagree, and that's just going to mean getting angry.
	If you don't get angry at mistreatment, you accept it, deep down.
	Right, so, if you don't get angry at the mistreatment you received as a child, I don't mean yelling or screaming at anyone, but, you know, just recognize and accept the feelings, whatever you don't get angry at, you accept.
	So, I mean, if this conversation has helped you sort of understand that, yeah, this neglect is really tough, and, you know, my heart goes out to you, like, seriously, it's really, really tough.
	Thank you.
	And... Yeah, because this conversation really has opened up that And I'll bring it up to the therapist too, that open of that neglect is explaining why I feel so strong feelings when I get rejected, pretty much, just like when I get ostracized, because I've just been neglecting most of my life, because right now I'm just, I'm a starving guy on an island, so a graham cracker looks really good right now.
	Oh yeah, no absolutely.
	And you're desperate to fill that hole left by a lack of parental affection, so you're just grabbing at people like a drowning guy grabbing at people or logs or whatever.
	But then it's really all about you and any reasonably wise woman is going to be like, hey man, I really sympathize, I can't fix this.
	I can't fix this, because this is something that's in your past.
	And if I try to fix this, like I try to love you and this and that, if I try to fix this, it's not going to work and you're going to end up getting really angry at me, because you're going to blame me and get angry at me rather than get angry at your parents.
	Because you want to do anything but get angry at how you were treated.
	Which I understand, I mean getting angry at how you were treated when you were a kid would have been very dangerous, right?
	But, I mean, you're an adult now, and you can process these feelings, and, you know, you're in therapy, that's great, but, you know, you can bring this stuff up with your therapist, and, you know, if it's something that still resonates, maybe something you can work on, but, yeah, that, whatever, I mean, there's a big important thing for me, was this, in the sort of personal growth stuff, was like, yeah, if I'm not getting angry at it, I clearly accept it.
	Like, I don't get angry at aging.
	I don't get angry at being bald.
	I don't get angry at, like, whatever, right?
	I mean, because I accept these.
	I don't get angry at gravity.
	Like, I accept these things.
	Because to get angry at something you can't change is kind of crazy.
	But to not get angry at injustice and abuse and neglect is also kind of crazy.
	If that makes sense.
	It makes a lot of sense.
	So, yeah, I mean, certainly talk about it with your therapist.
	I mean, it might be worth having a conversation with your parents, you know, something non-volatile.
	But, you know, in my view, I mean, I think this kind of neglect is really tough.
	It's really tough.
	And you owe your children attention and affection as much as you owe them food and shelter.
	That's, like I said, a good point.
	I just never really Thought of till now just like of how much neglect I had from them physically because they're just like there but just at the same time not there because the only time we'd ever spend together is when we go out to eat or if we go on vacations but even then going on vacations and that's a that's a whole other anecdote.
	So, yeah, I think that's most of what I wanted to get across.
	Is there anything else that you wanted to mention?
	Of course, I really do want to reiterate my deep sympathy for this, but it sounds like we did some useful stuff, and I'm certainly very pleased about that.
	No, it was very helpful.
	It's just right now, I'm trying to think what I can do to bring value to other people's lives.
	What can I do to bring something to the table?
	Well, yeah, but the first thing you have to do is reject That you reject your parents' assessment that you weren't interesting or weren't worth spending time with or weren't worth investing in or whatever it was that happened.
	You have to get mad at that first before you can start saying, well, what can I bring to the table?
	Because everything you could have brought to the table would just be so much easier if your parents had shown you that level of affection and interest and it would be automatic.
	So, you know, you got to rebuild something.
	Here, but you shouldn't have had to rebuild.
	Or you shouldn't have had to fix, if that makes sense.
	So how would you... What would getting angry at it look like?
	Or how would I go about it?
	Because I'm not sure.
	Because it makes sense, but I'm not sure what to do.
	I mean, it's different for everyone.
	But, you know, I mean, you deserved love and affection as a child, and the people who withheld it from you did you great harm.
	And you were owed that, you deserved that, you needed that.
	And all the children I know Who were loved, have benefited enormously.
	That's the real aristocracy.
	It's not money or race or... The real aristocracy, the real, the major, massive advantage in life is what you loved.
	That's, that's, because, you know, you and I and people like we got to just dig our way out of crap and rebuild all the basics and it's really annoying.
	It is really annoying.
	Learning how to talk to people.
	It's something they should have taught me.
	It's really annoying to learn, but I have to do it.
	Yeah, it is.
	It is.
	It's so annoying.
	I have to go through all the awkward interaction when I say something weird, not knowing that's not socially acceptable.
	Oh, having to second guess everything and oh my gosh, no, it's horrible.
	It's horrible.
	It is very relieving to talk to someone who also understands because I try to talk to my friends about it, but since they were no, that was a big eye opener.
	Since they were properly socialized, they can't relate because they don't understand because their parents didn't neglect them.
	Yeah, there are probably some other things that they're dealing with, but maybe not that one in particular.
	But yeah, that is tough.
	And again, I sort of can't give you a roadmap, because I don't tell people what to do, and even if I could, I wouldn't.
	But I think just having that understanding that you were neglected, which is, to me, a terrible form of harm to a child.
	And that's given you some real challenges that you shouldn't have had to face.
	And of course it's given you a quarter century of this kind of unease and anxiety and feelings of rejection and fear that you've said the wrong thing and all that kind of stuff.
	That shouldn't have happened.
	You shouldn't have to deal with that.
	And I'm sorry that you do.
	And I don't know what you do with all of that other than You know, I think the natural feeling to having being wronged is to, you know, hurt and anger.
	And I think those are healthy, healthy things.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Thank you so much.
	That was very helpful.
	You're welcome, my friend.
	Listen, I really appreciate the call and I'm glad that we had a chance to chat.
	I hope you'll keep me posted about how things are going.
	Oh, yeah, for sure.
	I'll keep you posted, but I will say it's just Very relieving to have someone actually show sympathy.
	That does fill my heart.
	It really does.
	I appreciate that, and I wish you the very best.
	I'm sure you'll do beautifully.
	All right, take care.
	Have a good night.
	Thank you.

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