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May 29, 2024 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:58:58

Is My Girlfriend Marriage Material? Freedomain Call In

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	I've got a, I've got a quite copious notes cause I'm a rambler.
	And at the same time, I'm prone to, uh, uh, sort of totally spacing out and not having any idea what to say.
	So, well, I'm, I'm happy to hear your notes.
	Hit me up.
	The most concise way I can think to put it is, is a question.
	Should I break up with my girlfriend?
	It's a question I've not been able to answer for the past few girlfriends, uh, in my entire sort of dating life, going back to around 13 years old.
	But for all of them, I had an excuse to leave that I was explicit about with these three or four girls in the past.
	I now realize I was making excuses to leave those past girlfriends and do not want to leave my current girlfriend on account of excuses.
	I want to either break up with her with certainty, clarity, and strength, or I want to double down on our relationship and marry this woman with certainty, clarity, and strength.
	Please help me right this self-conflict.
	And I put self in quotation marks because I think you believe, and I have a pretty great case, that self-conflict isn't really a thing.
	I'm so tired of this particular self-conflict, which cost me a great woman less than two years ago, one that most dudes would have killed to have, and that I chose to leave.
	And an interesting thing, just to finish this little stanza, is, well, never mind.
	We'll go to that later.
	How does that sound?
	Is that useful?
	Hey, um, I'm, I'm all ears.
	You can, and you can tell me the whole tale.
	Okay.
	Well, uh, this, so this sort of self conflict is very, uh, exhausting or distracting.
	I really feel like it's keeping me from a lot of, uh, not just happiness, but also productivity and generosity out there in the world.
	Um, so one, uh, one.
	Just to me a genuinely interesting thing that's been happening is I've been having sex with my current girlfriend unprotected.
	So obviously that's that makes it sound like there's a like it's not a choice that I'm making it totally is but this to me is substantial evidence and it just makes sense that I want to what I'm trying to do with that at some level is to get on the far side of having to make this decision because if I get her pregnant quote-unquote on accident Then I won't have to decide anymore.
	Does that make sense?
	The great news is, if we force ourselves to do things, there's never any problems or blowback or negative results.
	I mean, honestly, just keep raw-dogging it and that's pretty much as much philosophy as you're going to need.
	I think it's basically the philosophy is more Shardé and Shardaday.
	All right.
	But sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah, well, to that point, and I noticed on the top of your Your preparation to call in webpage, there's a quote from Benjamin Franklin that I love.
	An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
	And maybe that's some of the impetus for calling so urgently after I realized what I'm doing, the stakes and the fire I'm playing with, with respect to that.
	And what's your age range?
	I am early twenties.
	Okay.
	So good.
	We're still in the prevention side.
	Now, do you want to start with the girlfriend or the childhood?
	Or the last girlfriend?
	I don't have any preference.
	Childhood.
	Go.
	All right.
	Childhood.
	It was not good.
	It was, uh, for context, just cause I, I probably gonna fly through and anticipate anticipating a lot of your questions.
	So just for context, I'm a long time listener and not just a listener, but like a big Steph fan boy for a long, long time now.
	So, uh, anyway, childhood, it was not good.
	I was a smart kid and, uh, I was in public school here.
	I'll just write the question I anticipated was what is your relationship to your parents?
	Oh, no, no, hang on.
	Let's do the childhood first, then the relationship after.
	I want to go to facts before the relations.
	Okay.
	Not good.
	It was a bad time.
	I remember some of the facts.
	For a couple of years in public school, I would bang the back of my head on a sort of brick wall that we had to sit outside of our classes to wait for them to start in the mornings.
	You know, after the school bus would drop us off 30 minutes before class started or whatever.
	For a year or two, I would, I'd sit there and bang the back of my head on the, on the wall about as hard as I could, you know, sustain for, for that period every morning.
	Um, that's, I think that's just one, one helpful indicator as to how it was.
	It was, it sucked.
	And, uh, definitely.
	Of course there, of course there were ups, you know, I loved playing Pokemon and sometimes.
	Going out and getting pizza with the family was awesome, that sort of usual stuff.
	I'm sorry to hear about that of course, but why were you beating your head?
	How old were you at this point?
	Pretty young?
	Six and seven, yes.
	Six and seven, okay.
	So why are you beating your head against the wall at that age?
	I've got no idea as to a specific cause for that.
	Uh, well, you do, you do, right?
	I mean, it's, it's, you've listened to the show for a long time and it's always to me when people still try the, I have no idea stuff.
	Well, I mean specific, I mean like, you know, nothing sort of extremely dramatic happened, you know, four weeks prior to starting that behavior, nothing like that.
	Just, but yes, general.
	Not really wanting to, um, maybe it's dramatic terms.
	I'm not really wanting to be alive at that age.
	I get that, and of course I sympathize with that.
	But what does it mean, or why didn't you want to be alive at that age?
	I was a very lonely kid.
	Didn't have much of a mom or dad.
	Certainly not at that time.
	Okay, what does that mean?
	So loneliness isn't enough.
	Right?
	Because, I mean, there's lots of lonely kids and, I mean, I was a lonely kid in many ways, but you just fill your mind up with, you know, stories and fantasies and, and, you know, creativity and, and all that.
	We, we have a sort of waking dream called creativity that we use to fill the void called loneliness.
	So I don't think that's enough.
	I'm probably with something else.
	So when you say you didn't have much of a mom or dad, what does that mean?
	My dad was, hopefully this isn't sort of divulging too much information as far as Anonymity, but my dad was a soldier right before 9-11, starting right before 9-11.
	And so as soon as that happened, which was of course right around the time I was born, he was gone.
	And, and then very, just very busy for the next, you know, 20 years.
	15 ish years.
	Okay.
	So, um, not quite a single mom environment, right?
	Uh, you're right.
	Not exactly, but, uh, like 70%, maybe like 0.7 single moms.
	Okay.
	And how was your relationship with your mom?
	She was really real.
	I guess this probably is no surprise whatsoever, but she was very, very affectionate when we were babies and very small, but, uh, I say we, I have two brothers, one older, one younger.
	Um, but, uh, also very naggy, you know, sort of, uh, whenever I sort of liked something, if I was doing or working on something, um, she would definitely give me constant pointers and nagging.
	It almost felt like, I mean, I mean, it's just, she'd still does it into my, she did it into my twenties, but, um, And how was she with your father?
	They, I mean, during my whole childhood, they were not, not very close.
	I mean, he would, he would come back.
	I mean, not, not to mention the, sort of the initial changes he underwent as, um, as a, you know, as a, a soldier doing the work he was doing for, for years and years and years and years.
	But why, why was he a soldier for you?
	You can quit, right?
	You absolutely can't.
	Yeah.
	So why was he a soldier for so long?
	He loved it.
	He still does.
	Okay.
	That's one possibility.
	Sorry, a possibility.
	I may have forgotten the question.
	A possibility as to what?
	Why he would continue to do the soldiering rather than be a father.
	Oh.
	Um, well, certainly is, you know, kids have their ways of, uh, of hurting adults feelings.
	And we definitely did that.
	I'm not giving any agency to little to babies right now, but just saying, try to explain that those decisions mechanistically, he fell in love with the, uh, the war and the cause of the America and the screaming Eagle and the tanks rolling and all that stuff.
	Absolutely.
	Um, enamored him.
	And again, it still does.
	He is, he's not made any, um, uh, retraction.
	He stood fast on that, on that sort of emotional position the whole time.
	Oh, so you mean the emotional position of patriotism and fighting for America and freedom, you mean that kind of stuff?
	Yes, yes.
	Right.
	So, that still doesn't answer to me why he preferred all of those abstractions rather than his own family.
	I don't know if he still believed...
	Does he still believe that he was fighting for truth and freedom in the American way?
	Yes.
	Oh, so he has no particular doubt about, you know, there was no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and they basically spent 20 years to turn the Taliban back over in charge of Afghanistan.
	He has no doubts about any of this?
	Right.
	All the facts and good ideas and good arguments are Evidence or even just reason from which could have been done beforehand.
	It's, uh, it doesn't serve to, it doesn't sort of engage him in a conversation about the facts.
	It's, it gets emotional and not the good kind.
	Well, what do you mean?
	Like he just gets angry?
	Yeah, he gets angry.
	Defensive and, um.
	Okay.
	So it's not about truth, freedom, reason in the American way.
	Just so you know, right?
	That that's not it.
	Because I mean, if, if you sacrifice your entire family, In a sense.
	Don't you want to know that it was for something?
	I certainly would.
	I think so, right?
	Uh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	And that's, and I, my guess is that is, that's exactly why he's still so fervent about it.
	Cause, cause if it's not, if he, if he were to.
	I don't want to say get educated, but sort of, I don't know, move in my direction, say, about understandings.
	No, I'm sorry.
	It's not a question of getting educated.
	This isn't some, it's not a weird conspiracy theory to say you can find weapons of mass destruction.
	Do you think they did?
	I'm sure he is.
	Do you think that the Taliban are not in charge of Afghanistan again?
	Like, what do you mean?
	This is not, he doesn't have to learn Latin.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	He knows that stuff, but it, but it, To him, it doesn't matter.
	Again, it's not about being right.
	It's about the sort of passions and the brotherhood and all that.
	Okay, so if he prefers the brotherhood of soldiers to his own wife and children, that's fine, but let's not pretend it's about truth and freedom in the American way, right?
	Sure, yeah.
	I didn't mean to imply that, but that's certainly how he would Well, I get that.
	I get that, but we kind of have to look at the facts, not at the claims, right?
	So, why did he prefer to be away?
	He wasn't drafted, he could have quit.
	So why did he prefer to be away?
	Now, again, the whole truth, reason, the American way stuff, he doesn't care about that much because that clearly didn't quite play out, right?
	Right.
	And so he's not examining that.
	So it's got to be something else.
	You know, if I say I want to go to Vegas because I love gambling, I go to Vegas and all the casinos are shut and I just don't come home.
	I clearly went there for something other than the gambling, right?
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	That's, that's true.
	But at the same time, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but, uh, you say, why did he prefer, you know, sort of brotherhood and the feelings of patriotism and how sort of natural it is to be, to get wrapped up in these, uh, causes bigger than ourselves.
	I'm thinking I'm going to have a comparison of like, why do, you know, why do I prefer Parmesan cheese to broccoli as far as taste goes?
	Like, I just kind of do.
	So he, he did.
	Okay, I don't know how you in the equation get reduced to a dairy product, but okay, let's go with your analogy, right?
	But if you choose to get married and to have children, you are making sort of a commitment to spend time with your wife and your children, right?
	Uh, yes, I certainly see it that way.
	He is.
	Are you curious about his position with respect to these things?
	Of course.
	Yeah.
	I'd love to know his position and I could be wrong about everything.
	I'm just, you know, I'm just asking the questions.
	He takes a, um, basically, uh, a victim mentality with respect to this.
	Like it wasn't, of course it was, but, uh, he very much believes in.
	My country needed me, and I had to go.
	It wasn't my choice.
	It was the bad guy's choice who attacked the United States.
	So, yes, he made that commitment, but the commitment was overridden by an even bigger commitment, if that makes sense to his mind.
	Okay, so he had to go because his country needed him because, you know, the innocent country was attacked by the bad guys, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, got it, got it.
	So, he cares when people need him.
	Right?
	Well, seems like he cares more when abstractions need him.
	Well, I mean, my argument would be, did your children not need you?
	I mean, you chose to have children.
	And I mean, I guess was he, he was in the army.
	Like that's mostly what he's done.
	Is that right?
	Correct.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So your mom met him and, and dated him and married him.
	And he was, uh, he was in the army and he was an army guy.
	So she knew all that she was getting into.
	Right.
	Uh, that's right.
	However, 9-11 came as a surprise to the both of them.
	Of course.
	Well, I understand that.
	I understand that.
	Uh, but, uh, it wasn't like he later went into the army.
	He was an army guy and that's what your mom married into, right?
	That's right.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	So if you go where people need you, of course, then the question is, why didn't?
	Um, why didn't he go to his family when his family needed him?
	Well, it was certainly much better at being a, a warrior than a father or
	husband. Um, I...
	I accept that, of course, but then he's not going where he's needed.
	He's going where he feels more competent.
	Yes, yeah, and feels better, I guess.
	Feels better about the cause.
	Whereas he comes home and, I don't know, maybe it's more like work.
	It's less fun, I guess.
	No, I get that.
	So he's going where He prefers to be.
	Sure.
	Right?
	Yes.
	Okay, so if he's going where he prefers to be, it's not any kind of self-sacrifice, right?
	Right.
	He's doing what he wants to do.
	He's doing what makes him feel better.
	Am I wrong?
	No, no, I'm with you.
	Okay.
	So, I mean, that's just the cover story of, of patriotism and fighting for truth, reason, and the American way.
	It's kind of like a cover story, right?
	I mean, I think he totally believes the cover story.
	Not that that matters as far as the consequences of all his decisions.
	How do you know what he totally believes?
	Well, he's been saying the same thing my entire life, literally.
	Yeah, so what?
	My mother's been saying for my entire life that my dad was a bad guy.
	How do I know that's true?
	You can't know.
	Well, you can know based on actions, right?
	Okay, so how did your mother and father get along when they were together?
	Not very well.
	It was...
	Like I said, between, um, you know, between, excuse me, between deployments to war, they would be, you know, you feel, you feel breakups like a death.
	It's like every time he left there, they had to break up and that wasn't just boyfriend and girlfriend.
	They were obviously married.
	So eventually it seemed like neither of them could really connect to each other.
	And by eventually, I mean, you know, it only took a few of those.
	So, so not, not long.
	Excuse me, not very well.
	They didn't get along very well.
	Okay, so aside from all of the descriptive language, what does that mean?
	Did they yell at each other?
	Were they cold?
	Did they not spend time together?
	Did they not seem to enjoy each other's company?
	What do you mean by they didn't get along?
	They didn't yell at each other.
	I don't think that ever happened.
	And certainly, he was never violent with her.
	He's actually very, and this is important, He's very, very defensive of her sort of feeling bad, ironically.
	Um, if, for example, if one of the, one of the, his three sons ever, I don't know, did anything, tried to try to assert himself back onto our mother, it would, it would absolutely set him off and his, his temper would trip immediately and without fail with completely, um, completely predictably.
	So, you mean, if he felt that one of his kids was disrespecting his wife, he'd kind of go ballistic?
	That's right.
	And what would happen then?
	Well, I mean, it only happened maybe a couple of times to each of us before we sort of, you know, as kids do, you internalize the threat and stop doing it.
	But early on, it was physical.
	It was just spanking us.
	And bare hand or with implements, or what do you mean?
	With implements.
	With either, you know, sort of wooden spoons or leather belts.
	Yeah, so that's a beating, right?
	That's not just spanking.
	Right, yeah.
	I mean, is that an unfair way to characterize it?
	I'm neck deep in the peaceful parenting stuff.
	I don't distinguish the two.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	So how often would, when, when he was home, I guess, and how, how long was, how often was he gone and for how long?
	It's a little bit tricky because each trip varied, but, uh, the shortest being six and the longest being 12.
	So he was gone an average of eight or nine months every year until I was, you know, a teenager.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	And then of course, during those three ish, three, four months while he's home, he's got a very full-time job.
	And his head is not with the family.
	His head is still at war.
	And he, he totally acknowledges that to this day.
	Okay.
	And did your mom want him to stay home?
	I don't think... Oh man. That's a good question.
	Bye.
	I never, no, I never got that impression as a kid or now, but I know.
	I think she was totally sort of on board with him and you know, as he felt that he needed to go, um, save America.
	And then, and then eventually she, like I said, sort of the sort of breaking up all the time, um, breaking their hearts all the time.
	Uh, she probably can't got to a point where she didn't really care whether he was home or apart.
	Cause it was kind of the same both ways.
	And when I was early teens, maybe.
	12, 13, 14.
	They did, for a time, they did live in different, they lived across the city.
	Sorry, what do you mean they lived across the city?
	They did like a mock divorce and just took some, during one of these three or four month blocks while he was home, they lived apart.
	Okay.
	And how long was that for?
	Three to six months.
	Okay.
	And they're together now, right?
	That's right.
	Yeah.
	And they're doing better than ever because he's done.
	And when did he retire?
	Um, well, about four years ago.
	And did he retire because he wasn't allowed to continue or he chose to retire?
	You're good at this.
	He retired because he finally got hit by a very large bomb.
	And, uh, And he was basically retarded and she cared for him kind of like, you know, you care for an infant for, uh, for a good two or three years.
	He's doing much better now.
	Wow.
	I'm sorry to hear about all of that.
	Oof.
	Oof.
	And how are you doing?
	I'm good.
	I'm good.
	I'm nervous.
	And, um, I'm nervous and I hope I'm, I hope I'm doing well for the listeners.
	No, you're doing, you're doing fantastically, honestly, and you're doing great.
	Great job.
	No problem.
	Excellent.
	Excellently done.
	Excellently done.
	All right.
	And, uh, I guess he is, he's not working, I assume, or at least not yet.
	He's not working.
	They spend a lot of time, uh, just hanging out and fishing and whatnot.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	They're getting along well.
	He was gone for most of the time.
	And how was your relationship with him when you were growing up?
	Uh, when I was young, it was, um, it was, it was just fearful and really not much more than that.
	I, uh, Internalized his temper very quickly and very thoroughly.
	And I mean, actually connecting with them was just a very, very rare thing.
	Um, so I don't know.
	It was kind of like he was the, it was like, uh, you ever put your hand over an abused dog and it flinches real hard.
	It was a lot like that.
	And anytime, you know, cause he, cause he, Yeah, he knows.
	Right.
	And he would ask, you know, like, Hey, you want to go to, I'm gonna go grab some French, you know, grab a burger or whatever.
	It's just like, man, I don't want to cause I, cause it's too, it's, it's very stressful to be around this dude.
	But if I say no, you might get mad.
	Is that sort of not good?
	Not good.
	Definitely not good.
	And what was so stressful?
	Uh, the really the, the temper that you never knew when you were going to I won't say you never knew, but like I said, there are ways to predict it.
	But again, as a kid, we played it all.
	I don't mean to laugh, of course.
	We played it on the safe side, especially me.
	I was the shyest, the most timid, and I never sort of fought them until very recently, until my 20s.
	So, with your father, what were the concerns that you had that he might do or he might behave in such a way?
	What do you mean?
	Well, you had, like, if you would go out with him, there would be a concern, right?
	Right.
	Like, what were you concerned that he might do?
	Well, I think he was just getting spanked or beaten.
	And for what, what would he do that would be, or what might you do that would cause that, that kind of reaction?
	Really causing offense.
	It was a very much a, as I understand it now, and I could be, my memory is pretty awful of that, that whole period, but it was very much about offense or respect or power.
	That's sort of, that's sort of pretty mammalian stuff.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	And on any time that you would go out, I know this is a bit hard to come up with the math, but on any time that you would go out, what would be the odds that you might do something that might get him to be aggressive or might end up with him being aggressive?
	With my self-censorship?
	I mean, maybe 3%.
	Okay.
	And if you didn't have self-censorship, how do you think it would be, or what would the odds be?
	About 99.
	Oh, so if you didn't self-censor, he would just be aggressive?
	Well, sure.
	His whole schtick, his whole personality was stuff I didn't like, right?
	As a kid, I wanted a dad.
	So, I mean, to be honest about sort of the elephant in the room at any point, To me, yeah, it seems pretty predictably going to set him off.
	Okay.
	And in a way that makes sense.
	Right.
	Now, how did things go with your mom, who I guess obviously was your primary caregiver at that time?
	Like I said, she put us in public school and she was very, she was depressed.
	I think at one point she was diagnosed.
	Okay.
	It was.
	It was not good.
	In fact, I just remembered like this year that, uh, when I was 10 years old and I remembered it distinctly, it was one of those, uh, in the kitchen with my little brother, we had just gotten back from school and she's sort of asking us about it.
	And I said something like this place is just a storage unit so we can go back to school.
	And I was referring to our family home and that's word for word.
	Hmm.
	And did your mother, was she warm at any time or how was she in terms of affection and connection?
	I'd say pretty often warm.
	Pretty often warm.
	It still is.
	And did she ever talk to you about Your father being gone and why that was the case.
	Like when you were little.
	I mean, how old were you when he was pretty much gone the whole time, wasn't he?
	Yeah, the whole time.
	Okay.
	So yeah, did she talk to you about, you know, why your dad is gone and all that?
	No, I don't remember anything like that.
	And did your father talk to you about why he was gone and why you had no dad, so to speak, for a lot of time?
	I don't remember that, but he must have.
	Well, I shouldn't say must have, but I would expect that sort of behavior out of him.
	But I would have been really, really young.
	So why?
	It's funny that you beat your head.
	I mean, not funny, funny, but you know what I mean?
	That you beat your head against the wall when you were a kid.
	And what did your father end up with?
	Right.
	Brain trauma.
	Yeah.
	Head injury, right?
	I mean, it's one of these kind of funny little time loop things, right?
	It's obviously a coincidence, but it's interesting.
	Did you have any sense or when did you first understand the risk that your father was taking being gone?
	I'm totally guessing here, but I'd put it at Three or four years, like as soon as you're able to three or four years old, maybe.
	So you knew that he might never come back.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	As soon as I, yeah, as far, literally as far back as I can remember, that was normal life.
	I kind of assumed that's what every kid did, but yeah, it was totally.
	He could have died any given day, especially of course I can't get into specifics, but the nature of his, um, the army is a big place and he, no, no, I get it.
	He was, he was not a, he was not cooking Washington.
	I get that.
	Right.
	So.
	Who told you, at the age of four or whatever, who told you that your father was at risk of dying every time he was gone?
	I really couldn't tell you, Steph, but it had to be either mom or dad.
	Uh-huh.
	Did this give a kind of poignancy to you when you... I mean, obviously, you said goodbye to your dad a whole bunch of times.
	Did this give a kind of poignancy to you with regards to your father when he would go, like, might never see him again?
	Yeah, it was a very, um, it was almost the expectation.
	Uh, mom's always watching the news kind of thing and dudes were dying all the time.
	Right.
	So yeah, it was saying goodbye was an emotional thing.
	Every time you get a telegram, right?
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	Okay.
	Sorry.
	You were saying, Oh yeah, dudes dying all the time and so on.
	Right.
	And to the telegram point, I mean, that would happen.
	There would be.
	You know, three months with no contact, then there would be some, I don't know, maybe an email from a guy he knew or whatever that was, that was real for the first 10 years or so.
	Oh, three months, no contact.
	Wow.
	Yeah, definitely.
	So, so mom and, and all our kids are just sort of bracing for that news for a lot of, a lot of those years.
	I'm sorry about all of that.
	That's, that's horrendous.
	So.
	What happened with you and friends in school when you were very little?
	Friends in school when I was very little.
	Or, I don't mean like little little, but you know, single digits.
	They sort of came and went.
	I was definitely, I was identified as a weird kid very early on, and I had some, sort of less when they're really small, but there's still some definitely Um, adverse consequences as far as, you know, people are like, Oh, that's, that's a weird kid.
	We don't talk to him.
	Um, which I sort of appreciate now.
	And why is that?
	Just, just, I mean, just as a, um, as a instinct of these kids to, to block up into sort of what works, um, as far as, Hey, like, Hey, this is a really unhappy kid.
	Maybe we shouldn't, um, associate with him.
	And that was actually, I remember saying, That I would, I was able to smell other army kids.
	We were all, we were all weird in a sort of particular direction, a way.
	It was, um, other than old before your time, I guess.
	Yes.
	Wow.
	How'd you know we were, we were more serious than our peers.
	Yeah.
	I happened to be a lot more serious and still am.
	Um, and I was also smart and I, I didn't like.
	Oh man, this is rigid.
	But a lot of the, you know, like normal things to talk about, just, I, I had no relationship to, to a lot of that stuff.
	Yeah.
	Does that make sense?
	Does that answer the question?
	Yeah.
	I mean, you're dealing with life and death in the early to mid single digits.
	Yeah.
	How did you view your father when you were little and you knew he was going to war?
	Like a god emperor.
	Right, like a hero, like a superhero, right?
	Yep.
	And did that change over time or did that stay the same?
	It stayed the same for a long time, until I was around 12, 13.
	And what happened then well then um Uh, you know what happened then?
	Then I, I was getting stronger and I got into the gym at 12, 13.
	And I, uh, again, it was a very, those, the 10 years since then have been a very slow gradual process, but seeing him, uh, as not that, as not a, a God hero designed by Marvel, but as a, as a man and, uh, sometimes an unimpressively emotionally volatile man.
	Oh, like triggered kind of thing, right?
	Right, yeah.
	Yeah, it's funny, you know, because we do think, of course, that soldiers are supremely disciplined, and of course, in some ways, they absolutely are.
	Yes.
	But in some ways, they're kind of hedonistic with their emotions.
	Um, yeah.
	Like, there's not a lot of self-control when they feel slighted, or they feel there's been any kind of loss of status or hierarchy drop.
	They get very Aggressive and seem kind of out of control.
	Like there's not a lot of self-control with regards to that stuff.
	Right.
	Agreed.
	And you can look at, I mean, there are metrics about the alcoholism rates and cigarette smoking rates or having horrible girlfriend rates of soldiers.
	They're markedly higher than the rest of the population.
	Right.
	Yeah, so it's almost like what we look at as discipline is almost like self-sadism or self-attack or almost self-abuse, it seems like sometimes, because that same level of discipline that they have over their physical environment, which is, again, quite impressive, I'm not gonna lie, but that same level of control that they have over their physical environment, they don't seem to have over their own emotional apparatus.
	It is, it's a strange thing to see and know.
	And I'll, and I'll pipe in here so we don't go too long, but at 17 years old, I enlisted into the same army.
	Ah, okay.
	Got it.
	Got it.
	And what happened with that?
	Uh, nothing really.
	I never went to war just out of, as a matter of chance, but I did.
	I volunteered to do what he did basically.
	Right.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And now.
	We're still trying to figure out, at least I'm trying to, why you're beating your head against the wall.
	So you did it to the point where it would hurt, but I assume you weren't like pouring with blood, right?
	Correct.
	Yeah, no, I don't think I've ever bled.
	And other kids saw you do this?
	Yes.
	Yeah, we would sit on our butts in a straight line against the wall.
	And, but it would only be you beating your head, right?
	Right.
	And did teachers see or hear about this?
	Um, they must've seen cause we were just out and I didn't know it was something sort of shameful or to be hidden.
	Um, clearly, but, and I, I'm sure I was, I was nagged to stop once or twice, but I, I, uh, I don't remember any sort of sustained, like, Hey, this is completely unacceptable behavior on the part of a child.
	Well, I don't know about completely unacceptable is one way to put it.
	I'd be like, hey, I wonder why this kid has beat his head against the brick wall.
	Sure, terrifying.
	Right.
	So, I would imagine you were engaged in an experiment called skepticism.
	Yes, that's probably it.
	I could be wrong, obviously.
	Could be wrong.
	But I would imagine you were engaged in an experiment called skepticism.
	Skeptical of what?
	Well, your father is going and risking his life to protect the great, wonderful society called America, right?
	Uh-huh.
	So if it's a great wonderful society that's worth your father risking his life to save,
	how does it handle a child who is clearly in great emotional and psychological agony?
	Well I got the answer.
	Go on.
	I mean, it seems like, and I still believe I had it better than a lot of my peers, so I was, it was just normal.
	I was one of the better cases that these teachers sort of walked among.
	Well, okay, but did you see any teacher deal positively and helpfully and productively with any child who was obviously in great pain?
	Not that I remember, but I assumed that happened.
	Why would you assume that happens?
	There were just so many women in there, and then so many children.
	Like, there must have been some reaching out.
	Okay, let's stick with what we can empirically verify.
	Okay.
	Well, yeah, I certainly don't remember.
	So you beat your head against the wall.
	Kids, no.
	Teachers, no.
	And this is the great society that your father is risking his life to defend.
	How great is this society?
	What if I beat my head against the wall?
	will anyone care?
	Now if people do care, then obviously, you know, there's some real positive
	elements of the society and you can understand from a child's perspective
	what your father might be fighting for, right?
	Sure, yeah.
	But if they ignore it, and don't care, and don't respond, and don't lift a damn finger to help a child in obviously massive psychological distress, then what on earth is your father fighting to protect?
	A society that ignores the pain of children?
	Yes, yeah.
	I mean, your mother ignored it, right?
	Right.
	Your father ignored it, your friends ignored it, your teachers ignored it, your siblings ignored it, extended family ignored it.
	So what's he fighting for?
	I think like you said earlier, it's his own own.
	Bye.
	Very conservative need or desire to, uh, for that, that those stakes in that brotherhood.
	Well, you know, I mean, a lot of guys go to war cause they don't like being home.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	And he certainly didn't seem to, especially after, um, it, it sort of overtook him.
	Well, because if you like going to war, You're probably pretty bad at being at home.
	And if you love being at home, you won't go to war.
	I'm with you.
	Right?
	I mean, if he was home and he's like, I can't, I can't leave my family.
	I love my children too much.
	I love my wife too much.
	I can't leave.
	Then he would have quit, right?
	Right.
	And not even, not even quit, but just not re-upped.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Sorry.
	That's a better way to put it, but yeah, he would have not re-upped.
	And even if he wanted to quit, there's lots of... I mean, I did a show many years ago with a guy who helped out with that kind of stuff.
	So, he preferred to go to war than to be at home.
	And some of that had to do, I guess, with the patriotism, although it doesn't sound particularly well thought through.
	But a lot of it would I assume would have to do with not being able to commit to his family.
	Uh, I don't know what you mean by not being able to commit.
	He married very young.
	Uh-huh.
	And made children immediately.
	Uh-huh.
	And then was gone.
	And then was gone.
	Yeah.
	That's the part I mean about not committing.
	Sure, sure.
	You commit to your family.
	You do what's best for your family.
	Was it best for his family that he was overseas In wars that, to put it as charitably as possible, may not have been 100% about defending the American homeland.
	It was absolutely worse for his family.
	Okay, so that's what I mean by he didn't wake up and say, what's objectively best for my wife and kids?
	Right, no.
	So he did not commit to his family.
	Committing to your family says, what's best for your wife and kids, right?
	So, I like politics.
	Right?
	I mean, you know the story arc of the show.
	I like talking politics.
	I found politics very interesting.
	Am I doing politics?
	No.
	Why not?
	Because it ain't the best for my family.
	Sure.
	Because things were getting a little crazy out there.
	They're not getting better.
	Right.
	So, I do what's best for my family, even though I liked politics, and it made me very popular, right?
	And it got me a big audience.
	I had to walk away.
	Because I'm committed to my family.
	Right.
	So you realize why I'm harping all of this, right?
	No, not yet.
	What's your big issue with your girlfriend?
	I can't commit to any of it.
	Should I stay or should I go?
	You have a difficulty committing to your girlfriend, right?
	To say the least, yeah.
	Yeah, so you see why I'm talking about your dad so much, right?
	Sure, yes.
	His failure, in my view, to commit to his family.
	He didn't leave.
	He didn't stay, right?
	Right.
	He didn't say to his wife, listen, I can't be a good father to these kids.
	I'm gone six to nine months a year.
	And when I'm back, I'm working crazy hours and my head's just not in the game.
	So listen, we need to, like, I need to leave and, you know, obviously I'll support the kids, but you know, you need to find them a stepdad or like someone who's going to raise these kids, right?
	Because I'm not here raising them.
	I need to do what's best for the family, either to stay home, or if I'm going to go fight overseas, I need to let the family go so that you guys can get some kind of normal life going.
	Right.
	He did.
	He didn't either.
	Like I'm doing that.
	Yeah.
	He's neither there nor not there.
	And that's you, right?
	Yes.
	Yeah, it is.
	Nobody knows what I'm doing until I say it.
	Is that fair to say?
	I'm talking about my dad deployment.
	I'm trying to talk about my girlfriend, right?
	Yeah.
	Right.
	So.
	Why did he neither stay nor go?
	Well, if we use the analogy, that's what I'm doing.
	It sounds like weakness.
	Weakness doesn't explain much, though.
	You know, if I say, why did the bridge fall down, it was weak, but it doesn't really explain much.
	I mean, it's almost a tautology.
	Yeah.
	Why did something not work?
	Because it was weak to working?
	Like, you know, it doesn't add much, so.
	All right.
	Everything I can think of is a tautology.
	Right.
	I'm going to stop sharing my screen.
	Alright, can you think of a time in your life where somebody has genuinely sacrificed
	something of value that they really wanted to do for your happiness
	and it made you happy?
	My mother wanted to not be a mom but she said she...
	What? What was that?
	I, uh, I don't even know what, where I was going there with that, but... Well, you're going somewhere.
	I'm not trying to catch you out here, but my mom wanted to not be a mom.
	I'm hearing it or maybe you misspoke, but that's not something I want to pretend you didn't say.
	No.
	Yeah.
	I misspoke.
	I'm trying to get to before she was a mom.
	Um, like if she weren't a mom, she, she spoke about these sort of other ambitions.
	She had like being in the coast guard because she thought it was cool when she was, you know, 15, 16, 17.
	Okay.
	I mean, that's a little bit like every kid wants to be an astronaut, right?
	Uh, yeah, I agree.
	So what else?
	I got nothing else.
	I'm not big of the coast guard at 15.
	It's okay.
	Okay, what else?
	I think some honest but difficult conversations at 10 years old or 13 years old would have
	satisfied the question you're asking, but those didn't happen.
	Thank you.
	Who has focused in your life on your happiness?
	Putting aside all of considerations has focused on your happiness.
	That's not happened yet, that's why I'm calling.
	Well, A, that's obviously not funny, and B, the fact that it hasn't happened yet is everything.
	What do you mean?
	Well, the fact that you're in your early twenties and no one has focused on your happiness is everything to you because You don't know any different?
	I've certainly had friends and girlfriends, you'll probably say this is a meaningless addition, but I've had friends and girlfriends who have cared and sort of been generous.
	Okay, listen, I'm obviously not trying to catch you out and say it hasn't happened, so if you can give me examples, I'd be thrilled to hear them.
	Quite recently I've got a friend from when I was in the army who just totally opened his door to me.
	I was doing something that necessitated that I sort of wait and not work and not buy a place and not live with my parents.
	So anyway, I sort of slept in his spare room for weeks.
	And I consider that a very large and important kindness.
	He invited me to his family's Thanksgiving and all that.
	Okay, listen, and I'm not going to try and dismiss that.
	Giving you a place to stay is not focusing on your happiness.
	Sure, sure.
	I mean, I'm not saying it's unimportant, and obviously it's very nice that he did that, but that's not the same as focusing on your happiness.
	I mean, obviously that's preventing you from being unhappy by having no place to stay, but that's not him saying, you know, tell me what you want in life and I'll really work to try and provide it, no strings attached.
	No, that sort of sentence, that certainly has never happened.
	Well, I mean, it wouldn't be that sentence exactly, but that would be the general sentiment.
	Right, yeah.
	Has not happened.
	Can you think of a time in your childhood when you wanted that to happen and you have some idea of how it might have
	manifested?
	No, I can't think of an example of me thinking that.
	I mean, I'll give you just a tiny example from my life when I was, you know, 12 or 13.
	I loved to go swimming.
	I mean, I basically lived in the water for most of my childhood.
	You know, swim team, water polo team, and all of that.
	But in particular, at the age of 12 or 13, I absolutely loved going swimming.
	And in particular, you know, they had these big old giant diving boards that you could go up and do flips and a half and corkscrews and all that kind of stuff.
	I just loved doing that.
	I love that feeling of going up into the air, feeling like you could fly for a moment and then twisting, landing in the water as perfectly as I could.
	And I love that.
	Anyway, so there was swimming Friday nights and Sundays during the day.
	And one Friday I left, I had only one bathing suit because, you know, poor kid and all, right?
	And so one Sunday, sorry, one Friday, I sadly left my bathing suit.
	at school in my locker. And actually I never even had a lock for my locker, I just had a little
	bolt and screw because that was my high level of security back then. And I realized I'd go two
	hours Friday, I'd get two hours Sunday to swim and swim and swim and dive and dive and dive.
	And I realized without my bathing suit, of course, I couldn't go.
	And the school was locked, and I couldn't get to my locker.
	So, I was very, very desperate for a bathing suit.
	Plus, you know, I kind of needed a new bathing suit anyway, you know, when they start to get those little rolly puffs on them, because they're kind of falling apart, and I didn't want it to split.
	This is back in the days of banana hammock speedo.
	Central.
	And anyway, after a certain amount of really wanting this, my mother did, in fact, take me over, and she bought me I don't want to say cheap like it was bad.
	I was happy to get it and she was nice to do it and it was a good thing to do.
	But that was a time where I really wanted something.
	My mother did accommodate me and I did get to go swimming and not in this, you know, ratty old Um, half falling apart bathing suit situation.
	Uh, and that just one instance where she really didn't focus on something that would make me happy.
	Didn't have to do it, but it was, uh, it was nice that she did.
	It was stuff like that.
	Well, definitely.
	I'm sure that, uh, there, there are many examples like that, uh, from my facilitated by my parents and whether I can remember one specifically.
	It was kind of like getting pizza ordered to the house.
	It was kind of like a celebration ritual we did when dad was home.
	So definitely, you know, it'd be a school night or something.
	No, but that's a family thing for your dad, and I'm not saying you didn't enjoy it, but that wasn't focused on your
	happiness.
	My mother didn't want to buy me a bathing suit.
	I wanted her to buy me a bathing suit.
	And she did focus on my happiness at that time.
	It was something, I mean, if it's in fact, in a sense, negative for the other person, right?
	Then that makes it even more sort of focused on your happiness, right?
	Yes.
	Where, you know, your mother comes home and says, you know, Hey, I remember you talking about, you know, this particular, whatever it is.
	A week or two ago, so I made sure to order it for you, and here it is.
	or you know something thoughtful which is focused on something that makes you happy
	even if it's incomprehensible to her.
	I'm going to pull the I'm sure it happened card.
	Well, no, because I would accept that if it was common, then we don't remember, right, the details.
	If it's rare, though, we remember the details, because it's very different, right?
	Right, but that I remember very, very little overall.
	Well, that's because there was a monotony to it.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Did you have a teacher that focused on what was best for you in terms of learning or what made you happy?
	I had a couple very nice teachers growing up in a small town.
	I remember one of them, I was doing, I was sort of a Whatever star math kid growing all the way through.
	But, uh, at one point I was, I was kind of slipping and getting things wrong.
	And she said, uh, just like kind of casual remark after class, she was like, Hey, you know, sort of, why are you, are you sort of slipping towards the mean here?
	And, uh, she says, is it because your dad's gone?
	And I didn't even think about it.
	I just exploded with enough tears to wet my socks.
	I do remember that, but, uh, That wasn't specifically focused on your happiness, although it was a thoughtful thing to say.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so is it fair to say that you don't have the experience of somebody focusing on your happiness, what's best for you, at the exclusion of their own preferences?
	Yes i think that's fair and and just even that you saying it imagining that sounds kinda discomforting like what's
	wrong with that what do you mean.
	I don't like i ever heard that yet or something.
	Well, the whole point of people being nice to you is you're not supposed to earn it, right?
	If you earn it, then it's just a trade of good for good, right?
	Sure.
	I mean, it's like the restaurant waitress isn't that nice for you if she knows you're going to stiffer on the bill, right?
	Right.
	So you don't, you know, you earn her niceness by paying the bill or giving her a tip or whatever, right?
	Yes.
	Right.
	So, can you picture what it would be like for someone to wake up in the morning and think of what's going to make your day better and focus on that?
	I can picture it, yes.
	Okay.
	And what do you think or feel when you picture that?
	I've got to marry her.
	Right.
	Does your girlfriend do that?
	No.
	Okay.
	That's why you won't marry her.
	But is there an issue of cause and effect there?
	Why would she?
	Why would you focus on your happiness?
	Because she wants to get married, that's why!
	What do you mean, why would the woman who loves me focus on my happiness?
	What?
	What are you saying, soldier?
	I don't understand.
	Why wouldn't she?
	That's a good point I'm not sure I would do that
	.
	Because if you've not had that happen, it would be hard for you to do that for others, right?
	It is.
	Now, did your girlfriend, I assume she did, of course I could be wrong, but did your girlfriend grow up in a situation where Other people were not focused on her happiness at the exclusion of their own immediate self-interest.
	Absolutely.
	So would she understand this language or this perspective really at all?
	No.
	So what's drawing you together if it's not taking genuine pleasure in the other person's happiness?
	We do but it's it's measured.
	And it's not usually parent child right.
	I was just on a hike with my daughter the other day, and we passed by a stinking, vile bog.
	Like a swamp.
	Gross.
	Many years ago, when my daughter first got into catching animals, right?
	And she loved to catch, you know, frogs and toads and salamanders and things like that, right?
	The reason I shuddered a little bit when we went past that bog is I remember floundering around in there 10 years ago, trying to help my daughter catch frogs and salamanders and toads, and maybe even some minnows.
	Now, is it my preferred thing to do in life as a whole to flounder around in a stinky, vile, oily bog looking for little critters?
	Certainly not.
	Absolutely not.
	But I took great delight in it ten years ago.
	It was a blast.
	I look back on it with great fondness, though you could not pay me to do it again.
	At least until I get grandkids.
	Then I'm sure I'll be right back in that bog, floundering around like a wounded buffalo.
	Or a mastodon trying to get out of a tar pit, right?
	I'll be right back in there.
	And I'll be having a blast with the grandkids.
	I very much look forward to that.
	Well, it's fun because it's time spent with my daughter.
	And she's loving it.
	And I love that she's loving it.
	This is what I signed up for.
	I wanted to become a father.
	And that's the deal.
	If it makes her happy, I'm focused on it.
	Now, she is obsessed with making me great food.
	Oh no.
	No, it's wonderful.
	Are you kidding me?
	She's good, man.
	Awesome.
	She makes these sandwiches full of stuff I'd never even think of putting together, but it's like fireworks in my mouth.
	And she makes these smoothies and she gives me like cut up apples with a little bit of yogurt and granola.
	Ah, it's fantastic.
	Right now.
	Yeah.
	I'm not.
	And she literally says, please tell me every time you're hungry.
	I love making the food.
	That is so cool.
	Well, I mean, you know, deposits and withdrawals, so to speak, right?
	And I have never said I did all these things I didn't want to, because her having a great deal of fun with this and loving it means it's fun for me.
	You know, she loves ducks, man.
	She's just queen duck.
	So we have ducks.
	Is there any sane universe in which I'd have ducks if I wasn't a parent?
	Absolutely not.
	I didn't even know you could.
	But we get ducks.
	And she loves them.
	And I love that she loves them.
	And I'll go out with her and we'll check the ducks and we'll check the eggs and we'll take them to the pond and like, yep, absolutely.
	You know, I don't walk up and down rivers, but I enjoyed doing it when I was a kid and my daughter enjoys river hiking and catching the crayfish and all the, it's kind of cool stuff, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So it's fun and it's great memories.
	It's nothing I do without that.
	I'm sorry.
	I know that I'm like rambling a little here, but I just want to sort of get across to the idea that if it's great fun for her, I'm going to love it.
	I very much have that idea.
	Not just from your show, of course, but this is the standard I have, but I'm yet not able to meet it, if that makes sense.
	Right.
	I'm right there with you.
	This is exactly what I'm after.
	Okay, good.
	But that's the general idea.
	And it seems to me that you've not been on the receiving end of that.
	Well, with regards to withdrawals and deposits, again, I don't think I've,
	I said, why would you earlier?
	I've not deposited... Maybe I've got cause and effect backwards.
	Well, it's interesting, of course, you know, as a male, you would first self-criticize, right?
	Yeah.
	Also as an army guy, you would first self-criticize.
	Well, it must be me then!
	I must be the one who's not modeling it or doing it or whatever, right?
	But I don't think you particularly, maybe you did or didn't, but I don't know that you particularly knew before this part of the call that this was significantly missing and the main reason why you haven't committed.
	Right.
	So we get married when we can't do any better and we can't do better when
	someone is really dedicated to our happiness and in return we wish to be dedicated to their happiness.
	I learned this from my wife just by the by.
	I didn't learn this from my family.
	I didn't learn this from my friends.
	I didn't learn this from extended family.
	I didn't learn this from teachers or priests or philosophers or anything like that.
	You know she takes genuine and deep pleasure in the happiness of her family
	and it's something I'd not experienced before.
	war.
	It was kind of disorienting.
	Once I got it, I'm like, okay, we're getting married.
	And I'd been in multi-year relationships before that I hadn't committed to.
	Within three months, I'm like, yeah, we're getting married.
	Interesting.
	So, when it comes to thinking of your girlfriend's happiness, What's the limit for you?
	Like, what is it that makes it tough to just say, I'm just gonna work to make her happy, I'm just gonna work to satisfy her needs and her preferences and make her life as delightful as I can?
	I'm not saying you should do that, I'm just curious if that, I mean, I'm sure that thought has crossed your mind, and what's the barrier there?
	What's the negative outcome if you do that?
	Um, well, I view the sort of the work I'm doing as very, very much of the priority.
	Um, and I mean, I mean, like money and future planning and sort of setting the conditions for, for having a family.
	So.
	Now, but does your girlfriend agree that that's what makes her the happiest is you doing that stuff?
	It could absolutely be that case, right?
	But does your girlfriend, is your girlfriend also of the perspective that you working on the job and the money and the savings and building the foundation for the future family, is that what makes her the happiest at this moment in her life?
	No.
	And how do you know that?
	Well, she, um, Seems to regard the like sort of stuff.
	What I'm doing is just kind of indiscriminate and not that interesting blocks of time that we during which we can't be together.
	Well, no, I get that.
	I mean, she'd rather be with you, but does she agree?
	You know, let me sort of give you an example, right?
	So let's say your girlfriend has a really, really bad headache, but there's no Tylenol or whatever aspirin in the house, right?
	And then you say, hey, I'll go and get it, right?
	Now, this is time that you won't be together, but would she be happy that you're going to get the painkiller?
	Right.
	She's not that way about what I'm doing.
	Okay.
	So, that's good to know.
	And have you asked her what would make her the happiest?
	No.
	How long have you been going out?
	Going on three months.
	Okay.
	Why haven't you asked her? I don't mean this to be accusatory, it's genuinely a curious question.
	Why haven't you asked her what would make her the happiest?
	Is it too soon?
	I mean, three months is a relatively young relationship.
	I don't think it's too soon, though, given the... Given that you're raw-dogging?
	Yeah, maybe not.
	Right, okay, maybe.
	But it's a serious enough relationship that you're thinking of marriage, right?
	Yes, yeah, absolutely.
	From the first time we met.
	Okay.
	So why haven't you asked her what would make her the happiest?
	And again, I'm not trying to accuse you, I'm just genuine.
	Wouldn't that be a good thing to do?
	It totally would, but I haven't.
	It's interesting.
	So why not?
	The answer seems to be... So I haven't asked her, but I think I have a pretty good idea that No, but you would ask her.
	Certainly that wouldn't hurt.
	Yes.
	You're a waiter and you have a pretty good idea what the guy might want to eat.
	You still say, Hey, what do you want to eat?
	I would recommend the X, Y, Z, but what do you want?
	Right?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So why haven't you asked her?
	I'm gonna answer your question with a question and say, it's cause I know.
	Is it because I know we have sort of divergent end goals?
	Nope.
	Not that at all.
	Cool.
	No, it's not that.
	Do you want to know why?
	Yeah, I'd love to.
	Well, I'm going to answer your... I'm going to preface my answer with a question.
	Why didn't your parents, when you were a child, ask you what would make you happiest?
	Their needs came first.
	Well, because...
	If they ask you what makes you happiest, they're going to be unhappy.
	Right.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	And so, asking someone else what they want makes you unhappy.
	So, if you ask your girlfriend what she wants, you're screwed.
	you Cause she's going to want something that maybe is going to make you unhappy.
	And then what?
	And then we know we're not going to get married.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	Forget all of that.
	No, no.
	You're jumping straight off to this marriage, not marriage thing.
	No, no, no.
	There's a whole other bunch of stuff we go through before all of that nonsense.
	No, no, forget all that.
	We're just, we're just dealing with this, right?
	Uh-huh.
	So if I want to stay home and write, and I know my daughter wants to go for a long hike.
	Yeah.
	Am I going to ask my daughter what she wants to do?
	No.
	I am not.
	Right?
	Right.
	Unless I get my head out of my ass and I say, I've got, I'm going to live to my eighties.
	I've got 30 years to write.
	My daughter is fifteen and a half, which means all too soon she ain't gonna want to go on lots of hikes with her old man, right?
	Right, yeah.
	So I get my head out of my ass, I throw my keyboard away and we go on the hike.
	I'm not losing my writing by going on a hike with my daughter.
	I'm gaining a great memory with my daughter, which is exactly what parenting is supposed to be all about.
	And I can write later.
	Sure.
	But I can't go on a hike with my 15 year old daughter later because she won't be 15 anymore.
	Right.
	Do you see what I mean?
	Yes.
	So if I think I want to write and if I go on a hike with my daughter, I'm losing out.
	I'm not going to ask her what she wants to do.
	That's your parents, isn't it?
	I want to be a soldier.
	And if I ask my son, do you want me to be a soldier, what's my son going to say?
	Resounding no from all of us.
	No, I don't want you to be a soldier.
	Oh, then I don't get to be a soldier.
	Right.
	Oh man, that's terrible.
	So the last thing I ever want to do is ask my son what he wants.
	Mm-hmm.
	Do you see what I mean?
	Yes.
	If he asks your mom, do you want me to go and deploy?
	When you were little, what'd your mom say?
	Absolutely not.
	Mm-hmm.
	Right.
	So that's the win-lose mentality.
	If other people get what they want, I don't get what I want.
	If I get what I want, other people don't get what they want.
	That's win-lose.
	And you can never fully commit to win-lose.
	Because it's always this kind of tense standoff and Mexican standoff and negotiation and somebody always loses.
	Usually the kids, right?
	Yeah.
	So if I'm saying I want to write and if I don't get to write, that's bad.
	My daughter wants to go on a hike.
	If I do what she wants, I lose writing.
	That's bad.
	I may go on the hike, but maybe I'm kind of resentful or maybe I'm kind of quiet.
	Like it's stupid, right?
	Yes.
	as opposed to...
	you know, get your head out of your ass and go and have a great hike
	with your daughter, cause she's gonna be gone before you know it.
	And then I don't lose anything, I gain.
	But it requires a shift in perspective.
	It requires letting go of your selfish needs in the moment.
	I want to write!
	And saying, what do I really want?
	Well, what I really want is not another chapter or another little article or whatever it is.
	What I want is A great time with my daughter.
	That's what I really want.
	That's what's more important to me.
	But I have to let go of just the, I want, I want, right?
	I don't know if this makes any sense, but...
	It does.
	And we go on the hike, and it's a great time, and I don't miss the writing at all.
	And the funny thing is, Probably, I'm actually helping my writing.
	Yeah, probably.
	Right?
	Because at some point, years down the road, I could write a scene where a father goes hiking with his daughter and get it all right.
	Sure.
	Or I could write about a selfish guy who doesn't go hiking with his daughter and gets it all wrong.
	I'm actually helping my writing, too.
	Yeah, and if you know that's what she wants to do during your writing, you'd probably be distracted by that missed opportunity.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	Could I write about a truly benevolent, loving character?
	If I did that, right?
	Right.
	So I don't think you particularly know the joys that come from devoting yourself to the
	happiness of another.
	You I think you hold yourself back from that because your parents modeled win-lose.
	If your mother wins and your father stays home, your father's unhappy.
	If your father wins and leaves, your mother's unhappy and so are his kids.
	kids.
	Okay.
	But there's an even darker win-lose, which is around the child beating.
	you you
	The child beating, which I mean the beatings with the belts and the implements, wooden spoon, wasn't it?
	Wooden spoon and belts?
	That's right.
	So the beating is, I can't motivate you by my example, so I have to punish you.
	Yes.
	So you were beaten for What, thinking in opposition to your father?
	What, what were the key things?
	I'm sorry if I, if you mentioned that, but what were the key things that you were beaten for?
	Uh, offending my mother was definitely the, the biggest one, his wife.
	Right.
	So you can't hurt your mother, right?
	Yeah, I can't hurt the woman's feelings.
	Right.
	Although she's turned into a heartbroken widow once or twice a year, right?
	Your father hurts her incredibly deeply regularly.
	That's right.
	So he can't obviously motivate you by his example.
	You got to think of your mother's feelings first.
	Never hurt her.
	Okay.
	I'm off to war.
	Absolutely.
	Right.
	So he can't motivate you by example.
	So you have to punish you.
	What else?
	Well, then, uh, after her, then, then him sort of just as Yeah, you've got to think of my feelings first, right?
	Yes.
	But you can't think of a single time where he thought of your feelings first.
	So he can't motivate you by example?
	Definitely not.
	I mean, I think I helped to motivate my daughter into this way of looking at things, or this way of experiencing life.
	I mean my wife even more so than me.
	So...
	Win-win?
	And motivating you through moral behavior rather than punishing you for replicating your parents' behavior?
	Because it is kind of hypocritical, right?
	You get beaten for upsetting your mother, and your dad gets, like, medals and a pension for upsetting your mother.
	You're a bad guy for upsetting your mother.
	Your dad is a hero for upsetting your mother.
	You're a bad guy for not putting your father's needs first.
	Your father never seems to put your needs first, last, or anywhere.
	So how the hell are you supposed to learn how to put other people's needs first if it doesn't happen to you?
	It's like expressly forbidding you from learning anything to do with Japanese and then punishing you for not knowing Japanese.
	Well, you learned Japanese eventually.
	Most people don't.
	Your parents didn't.
	Right.
	And I can't stand that possibility.
	I reject that.
	Right.
	If you...
	Okay, let's...
	We'll get real to the core of the fear here.
	real to the core of the fear here.
	And if I'm wrong, obviously, tell me.
	I'm exploring, so if I go astray, set me straight, I implore you.
	Is not the fear... Why are people not generous in this way?
	Why don't they put the needs of other people first?
	Because they fear being exploited.
	Rick, if I put your needs ahead of mine, you're just going to exploit me and eat me alive.
	Do you have that concern with your girlfriend?
	I'm not saying whether it's rational or not.
	I'm just saying, do you have that concern that if you're really, really generous and thoughtful towards what she needs, that she's just going to use and exploit you?
	Or is she going to reciprocate?
	I, uh, well, I think, I think her, this doesn't, this might not make sense, but being really generous and, and, uh, Doing exactly what she wants.
	I think that's, I think that's my, my commitment and my, um, you know, given our kids and all that stuff.
	Sorry, what do you mean?
	That's your commitment?
	Tell me what you mean.
	I think what would make her most happy at this point in her life, it would be for me to date her for a while longer and then, and then definitely propose and give her a family.
	Hmm.
	Interesting.
	Okay.
	Now, would that make you happy?
	At the moment, I don't think so.
	Me neither.
	Right.
	So, you have to take joy in bringing joy to her.
	Now, if you bring joy to her at your own expense, That's not really sustainable, right?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	So what's the barrier to bringing joy to her and enjoying it?
	So let's say you said, what would make you the happiest?
	And what do you think you said?
	You have some idea.
	And I know that there's the, the wife and kids thing.
	Is there anything in the more short term?
	What would make her happier?
	Uh, yes.
	Yeah.
	I've definitely got some idea.
	And what might that be?
	Specific dates to certain parks and restaurants, stuff like that.
	Okay, so there's a particular restaurant she wants to go to, and if you planned that out ahead of time, she'd be very happy.
	That's right.
	Okay.
	And what has prevented you from doing that, do you think?
	And you would enjoy that too, I assume.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Well, it's just been my schedule, my being busy, and I do fully intend to do these things within 10-14 days here.
	Sorry, your schedule has precluded you from eating out?
	No, not entirely, but certainly put it off, yeah.
	Okay, I mean, let's go through some of the traditional stuff, right?
	Does she work?
	She does, yes.
	Okay.
	Would it give her pleasure for you to have flowers sent to her workplace with a romantic note?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Okay, now that doesn't require that you be off work, right?
	You're right, yep.
	So, you know, women, they like the bragging rights.
	Look, my boyfriend sent me all these flowers.
	Oh, you're so lucky.
	You know, that's nice, right?
	So what would prevent you?
	I mean, this is like sending a woman flowers.
	It's not exactly brain surgery when it comes to, right?
	So what would have prevented you from doing that?
	Nothing, nothing practical.
	Well, no, okay.
	But what, what in your mind?
	And again, this is not a big criticism.
	I'm genuinely curious.
	what in your mind would have prevented you from doing that?
	Well, it sounds like this sort of a...
	This reservation you're talking about, like this being on guard.
	Okay, on guard for what?
	On guard for her to take advantage of.
	Okay, so play it out.
	If you start doing things that make her really happy, what is your concern?
	And again, rational or not, we'll just cast it, like just dig deep and what's the cause and effect or what's the worst case scenario that might happen here?
	The cause is sort of my generosity and affections.
	I am.
	It is rational.
	I'm very sure that they would have the effect of just drowning her in infatuation and sort of a need for me.
	Sorry, so, drowning her in infatuation, I mean, it sounds like an 80s romantic song.
	What does that mean?
	Like, in practical terms, what happens?
	Just sort of, so she likes me as is, that I haven't done this sort of thing, to whatever degree.
	Oh, so you might appear too needy and desperate?
	No, no, she might like me too much.
	Oh, it might make her too happy and then she gets really attached to you?
	Correct, which isn't itself bad, but if I'm... well, if we're not going to stick together, then it is.
	Does that make sense?
	Well, the fear makes sense.
	The way it would play out in reality doesn't at all.
	So let's say you spend the next week or two really working on making her happy.
	There's only one of three outcomes.
	What are they?
	I mean, two major ones.
	Well, I would get to see her sort of response.
	And if she.
	Yeah. So what are the two basic the two basic responses she could have?
	She does reciprocate.
	She doesn't reciprocate.
	Well, either she does reciprocate, or B, she raises her expectations, becomes more demanding, and it's unpleasant.
	Yeah.
	So you send her flowers every week, and then she doesn't respond, you stop sending her flowers, and she's like, hey, why didn't you send me any flowers?
	Well, that's your answer, isn't it?
	Right, yeah.
	Because she is not responding to generosity with reciprocity, but with thanking.
	Right.
	With bitchiness, right?
	Yes.
	That would be very great to find out, yes.
	Important, yes.
	once, it not even has once crossed her mind that she might want to make you happy as well.
	That would be very great to find out. Yes. Well, it wouldn't be fun, but it's pretty important,
	right? Important. Yes. Right. Generosity almost never fails.
	And when we withhold ourselves from generosity, we withhold ourselves from
	certainty because that's what bothering you about. So you're hedging saying, oh, I don't want to be too
	nice.
	I don't want to be.
	So then you're uncertain, but go be generous.
	Be generous.
	And you find out. You get closure.
	You get certainty either way.
	Either she's like, holy crap, it's the best guy ever.
	And she racks her brain to make you as happy as possible.
	In which case, yay.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Or she just takes it all for granted and it raises her expectations and she just gets bitchy.
	Okay.
	I mean, I said there were three.
	The one is that nothing changes, but that's very unusual.
	Like you just keep, she just, she doesn't get any more bitchy, but she doesn't reciprocate or whatever, right?
	Because when you're generous, you give people power over you.
	Oh.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, definitely.
	And now either they're going to turn into an equal or they're going to turn into a bitchy queen, right?
	Yes.
	But you, you want, as soon as possible in a relationship, you want to give the woman power over you.
	Interesting.
	I know as a man, this kind of goes against the grain a little, right?
	I must be the lord of King Kong isolation and patriarchal dominance or whatever, right?
	But no!
	If you really like the woman, say, ah, I really like you, right?
	You think of ways to make her happy.
	Oh, that's being such a simp.
	It's like, no, absolutely not.
	The simp is one who does it and doesn't look for reciprocity.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Yep.
	The simp is one who makes it a masochistic commandment to serve women
	and almost doesn't want anything in return.
	That's pathetic.
	I mean, I don't even understand that at all.
	But generosity in relationships is the best way to find out if someone's marriage material.
	The American Pronunciation Guide Presents It's like, who's a good friend?
	Well, you lend money to your friend, right?
	I'm sure you've had a broke friend.
	I know I have.
	I've been that broke friend from time to time.
	And, you know, you lend money to your friend.
	And then if your friend dodges you and won't pay you back, you've just saved yourself a whole lot of time and money.
	Get closure.
	Yeah.
	Hey, great.
	I remember there was a guy I lent 800 bucks to.
	And man, it was touch and go, man.
	You know, he was really pretty dodgy and evasive.
	And listen, I wasn't like, you have to pay me back right now.
	I was like, just tell me, I got to plan my finances.
	Just tell me what's happening.
	Don't just dodge me.
	That's gross.
	I mean, if something's happened and you can't pay me back, Hey man, I get it.
	it stuff happens but I gotta know what's going on.
	So saves a lot of time and money but that guy.
	I remember I had a, what's it, Jamaican friend in high school.
	He needed, I think it was in grade 10.
	He needed, he borrowed $5 from me to go to a dance at school or something like that.
	Totally dodged me afterwards.
	Like wouldn't, wouldn't even acknowledge it and just kind of laughed.
	Oh yeah.
	Whatever.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Good to know.
	I don't regret the 800 bucks.
	I don't regret the five bucks.
	I mean, I helped make a girlfriend of mine.
	I wanted to get in the film business, but I was doing pretty well in the software industry.
	I wrote, produced, and funded an entire short film for her.
	Pretty bloody pricey.
	Yeah.
	I don't regret that money for a second because it helped me not get married to her.
	That is awesome.
	Generosity with an eye to reciprocity is one of the greatest liberating principles known to man.
	Stinginess never solves the problem of doubt.
	Generosity with an eye to reciprocity always does.
	Okay.
	Does this make sense?
	That makes great sense, yeah.
	It's a strong man to be confident, in my view, it's a strong man and woman to be confident enough to be generous and see what comes back.
	I mean, you understand the foundation of this whole show, why you and I are having this conversation at all, is that whole principle.
	My whole principle is be as generous as humanly possible with philosophy and see what comes back.
	I'm not saying donate for this call.
	I'm not talking about that at all.
	But the whole point is I don't charge for the calls, right?
	Right, right.
	I see.
	It's just generosity, right?
	This will be useful to you, useful to the world, and we'll see what comes back.
	You know, it's been pretty good.
	I've got a roof over my head.
	I've got a used car in the driveway.
	Things are all right.
	And the biggest show, biggest philosophy show ever.
	It's certainly at its peak, man.
	It was massive.
	It'll, you know, it'll be bigger in the future than it is now even, but yeah, it's, it's been, it's been great.
	So that's generosity and look for reciprocity.
	Okay.
	I'm, uh, I'm on, I'm totally on board.
	That makes sense.
	Of course, teachers never ask you what you want to do in school because their hands are tied with curriculum, right?
	And it doesn't sound like your parents did it.
	I don't know if you've had a bunch of friends.
	It's a little tougher in the friend world to do it, although it can be helpful.
	But, yeah.
	If you can't take pleasure in the pleasure you bring to other people, it's probably not a very sustainable relationship.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Okay, okay.
	And that's certainly one thing I haven't tried.
	I talked about the previous relationships failing on the same grounds.
	That is this sort of being liberal and not so measured.
	Yeah, so the general pattern is, you're a young man, and you're a lusty young man, it's great, embrace it, it's wonderful, but what happens is, you're very attracted to the woman, the hormones charge like a whole horde of Genghis Khan's finest stallions, and whether there's sexual consummation or not, not particularly relevant, but you get four to six months of those bonding hormones, And if the generosity is kind of hedged between the two of you, then the sexual frisson, the hormones, the highs of initial romance fades out, and you just get kind of bored and don't feel that special to each other, and things just kind of peter out.
	Right.
	Because you haven't used that enthusiasm to test for generosity.
	In relationships, it's really important to test for generosity, but you can't do that by being stingy.
	Of course.
	You know, I remember lending some money to another friend of mine.
	And not only did he pay me back the day he promised, but he also took me out for a really nice dinner to say thanks.
	He passed the test?
	Yeah, he didn't have to.
	I mean, I was happy to lend him the money.
	But the dinner was a nice touch.
	So I think generosity with an eye to reciprocity brings certainty and once you, I mean if you
	are very generous with the woman and she's then generous and thinks of you in return
	and you know assuming the other things like values and general level of intelligence and
	conversational ability if that stuff all checks out and I'm sure that it does.
	Then, holy crap, there's a woman you're attracted to, she's moral, she's a good conversationalist, and she reciprocates generosity with generosity, she takes great pleasure in making you happy, you take great pleasure in making her happy.
	There's no upgrade from that.
	Okay.
	That's the top.
	It's like trying to climb past the peak of Mount Everest, right?
	Yeah, that makes sense.
	But it's going to be painful as hell.
	I'll tell you this, man.
	There's a reason why people don't... It's pretty obvious what I'm talking about, right?
	Yes.
	And you're a very intelligent young man, so... Since this obvious thing isn't being done, and most people don't do it, the question is why.
	Well, the reason why, my friend, is because it's agony when it works.
	It's horrible when it works.
	I know.
	I just said it's the best thing ever.
	Totally.
	It totally is.
	Right.
	But it's horrible.
	Do you know why?
	Well, cause it's, it reveals what wasn't done at any point prior.
	Right.
	Everything that was deficient is now clear.
	And you've got this amazing, wonderful win-win relationship that just keeps getting better and better.
	And I've been married 21 years now.
	Now it's better and better.
	And everybody else looks pretty crappy.
	you You know what I mean?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Absolutely.
	And you start looking at all your other relationships and you're like, eh, ew.
	Oh, not so sure about this one.
	And then maybe you start applying the same principles to these other relationships, right?
	Sure, yeah.
	And then seeing if those either become awesome or are revealed as the opposite.
	Yeah, they don't, they don't become awesome.
	Sorry.
	Spoiler.
	I mean, I guess, sorry, it's a little bit of a cough.
	I guess it's theoretically possible, but it's so rare that, you know, it's like saying, I don't need sunglasses because there'll be an eclipse today.
	It's like, yeah, maybe once in a while, but you still need some sunglasses.
	So, I mean, it could happen, but it's staggeringly rare.
	What happens is, the people in your life who are kinda selfish, they get a sense that there's a new sheriff in town called Quality, right?
	And, you know, you've seen enough Wild Westerners to know what happens when the sheriff comes to town, everybody's gonna try to shoot his ass off, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And your girlfriend is not going to like to see you get exploited by people and you aren't going to like to see
	your girlfriend get exploited by people, right?
	Right.
	So, yeah, you're going to have some challenges.
	And people are going to trash talk your girlfriend because they don't like the new standard.
	That's okay.
	I mean, if you can imagine, you run some shit falafel stand that's like, you know, dirty
	hot dark water and, you know, soggy falafel balls and stuff.
	And then like the fireworks lit shawarma emporium from heaven opens up right across the street.
	And you're probably not that pleased, are you?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Got to go to a different town.
	Are you going to be like, well, I guess I'll just completely upgrade my whole shawarma thing to compete.
	Most times, no.
	Most times you'll just call the health inspector and tell them that there's rats in the place and hope they'll shut
	him down.
	So, that's why people don't do it.
	you It's a completely obvious thing.
	Ask your girlfriend what makes her happiest and try to provide it.
	And see how she reacts.
	Because if she doesn't react well, then, you know, that's kind of painful.
	Maybe you gotta break up on your hands or whatever, right?
	Right.
	Because it's the kind of thing, like, you can kind of talk about it, but you can't talk about it too much.
	Right.
	So like I can talk about that with you.
	Right.
	But, but if you say to your girlfriend, well, I'm going to try this radical new thing of giving you what you want.
	Right.
	Like you kind of have to do it and see if it sparks a response.
	Cause it has to be kind of organic.
	Because if you say, well, I'm going to be generous to you.
	And if you're not generous back with me, I'm going to break up with you.
	You don't know if it's organic.
	Right.
	I've got a finger on the scale.
	Well, yeah, you got your finger on the scale quite a bit and, and you won't trust that she's doing it organically.
	Right.
	Right.
	That's a good point.
	Like, when my wife was my girlfriend, she never said, I'm doing these favors for you, but you better reciprocate.
	There was nothing like that, right?
	Yeah.
	I was just like, wow, she's really nice.
	You know, my heart grew three sizes that day, you know, it hurt, you know, and not in the Pfizer way, but like, you know, in a positive cringe.
	a healthy woman.
	And so, you can't put your finger on the scale, but you need to see if it sparks that kind
	of reciprocity.
	you I mean, if she asks you directly, you can't lie, right?
	You don't want to lie to her.
	Right.
	Of course.
	You don't want to say, I'm now putting you through the experiment called niceness.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Change the parameters up a little here and mix things up a little here.
	You got to be really generous and thoughtful and right, see what happens.
	And of course, I mean, the worst kind of women, and I'm not putting your girlfriend in this category at all, right?
	But the worst kind of women, if you're really nice to them and you provide for them what they want and they're really thoughtful, they'll be like, wow, I've got him wrapped around my finger, I can do whatever the hell I want now.
	Yeah.
	And that's a male fear as well, right?
	But again, I would, you know, I would be completely shocked if
	she was in that category because that's, that's really bad, right?
	Oh, he's totally simping.
	I can do whatever I want.
	She's not.
	No, I get that.
	But you want to figure that out sooner rather than later.
	This is just for the men listening as a whole.
	But yeah, generosity with a view to reciprocity is the key, man.
	That's what gets you out of the bad place and into the good place.
	And, you know, like, if it doesn't work out, right?
	And, you know, if she does consume or absorb this kind of stuff, like a black hole, right?
	The more you pour it, the bigger and stronger it gets, and the more it pulls in and destroys again.
	I'm not putting her in that category.
	But if it doesn't reciprocate, for whatever reason, then, you know, I mean, if you did break up with her and she says, well, why?
	Right?
	I mean, I think it's okay to say then, because you don't have your finger on the scale anymore.
	I mean, I really, really worked to make you happy, and I worked at it for a month or two or whatever, and it just never came back.
	I wish you the best, I really wish it had, but that's not where you're at in life, you're not a bad person or anything like that.
	You know, remember I did this, and I did this, and I did this, and I was really sort of racking my brain to make you happy, and I really enjoyed it.
	But, you know, we've got to have that in common, right?
	If the only thing we have in common is making you happy, you know, that kind of leaves me a little bit out in the cold, right?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	I want to make you happy.
	I agree.
	I want you to make me happy as well.
	It's like, no, no, that's not very sustainable.
	So yeah.
	So then, you know, if there's a breakup scenario, you can say, well, there's certain, Oh no, no, no.
	I want to do it now.
	And it's like, no, like, sorry, the, the kind of emotional moment has passed for me.
	And I wouldn't want you to do it out of a sense of, well, otherwise he's going to break up with me.
	Cause that's not really sustainable.
	Like either you take pleasure in making your partner happy or you don't.
	Right.
	Right.
	But I think that would be the certainty.
	But again, you know, it's tough for your other relationships.
	How are you getting along with your parents these days?
	Not well.
	In fact, relatively, extremely recently, I called my dad and I was honest with him for arguably the first time, maybe three weeks ago.
	You said you were honest with him?
	Yes.
	How did that go?
	It didn't go well.
	I said, I just kind of had three points.
	I said, I just sort of acknowledged that our relationship was bad because it had been a little bit adversarial, contentious, or I mean, really since I became a man.
	Point two, my childhood sucked.
	I wanted to be honest about that.
	And then point three.
	Sorry, what?
	Oh, your childhood sucked.
	Yeah.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	And then point three, that we disagree on many foundational questions with respect to, you know, God, politics, war, parenting, sort of judgment in our social lives.
	He responded with significant passive aggression and, um, some like, yeah, yeah.
	Significant passive aggression and excuses.
	I'm sorry about that.
	I really am.
	It's, you know, it's just so heartbreaking when you try to have those frank discussions and, like, I can kind of understand that parents might get a little shocked and act badly in the moment, but, you know, wouldn't they call back an hour or two later saying, you know, man, this has really bothered me and this is really eating away at me and let's try this again and I'm sorry that I, you know, that kind of stuff?
	Yeah, I've been waiting.
	Yeah, it's within a day or two or it doesn't happen.
	I've never seen a break to that rule.
	So I'm real sorry about that.
	And did your mom know that this call was coming or?
	No, she didn't.
	I tried to because she's very feminine and like the sort of inoffensive and submissive wife kind of way.
	I didn't.
	I sort of went right past her to dad.
	All right.
	And with your mom?
	How's my relationship with her?
	The same.
	It's very Just very distant.
	I mean, they, they, they would like to call and talk with me about the weather and how was school and how's work and all that.
	What are my, what are my sort of financial plans?
	Just all the, all this stuff that, that I don't care about, you know, I'm interested in, uh, you know, I care about it as far as it's my life.
	And I appreciate that they're not, they don't drag me into their, um, you know, hamburger helper dinner, so to speak.
	But, uh, But it's not the stuff I love.
	It's not philosophy and history and the future of the U.S.
	dollar.
	Or even what's going on with your girlfriend that they might help with, right?
	Sure, yeah.
	And what love is.
	Nothing like that.
	Because, of course, we can't talk about any of those things without conflict.
	Well, disagreement doesn't mean conflict, right?
	Um, I mean, maybe in your family, not, not ontologically.
	It doesn't correct.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, disagreement can be fantastic.
	Disagreement can be the sparks of like new thought, right?
	Absolutely.
	Yeah.
	And, and, and mutual respect.
	Yeah.
	But it, it really sucks when disagreement just means you're a bad person.
	You know, like the, how dare you stuff?
	Like everybody's Greta Thunberg when it comes to their own superstitions.
	Right.
	Right, right.
	It was disappointing.
	Yeah, yeah.
	A good person would never raise these questions.
	A good person would never think that.
	It's like, OK, OK, cult member.
	Like, thanks, but not that not that interested.
	I'm sorry about that.
	And your siblings?
	One of them, he wasn't so subordinated and intimidated as I was growing up, and he really distanced himself from the family, starting at like Six years old, so I haven't heard from him in... going on a year, probably.
	He distanced himself at what age?
	Well, you know, just sort of emotionally not wanting to be involved, not wanting to talk with his brothers or parents.
	At six, you said?
	Sure, at six.
	Well, so there's... No, I'm not saying you're wrong.
	I'm just like, that would not have been the age I guessed, I guess.
	The signs, yes, the signs of the, uh, the path you would go down were, were starting to be evident as early as five.
	Yes.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	Because yeah, that's wild.
	It's almost like genetic or something.
	All right.
	And the other, and then little brother, it's, it's much, much closer.
	And that's the only person I had in mind when I said, uh, maybe this, this generosity thing will We'll reveal a really good sushi place or whatever it was.
	Right.
	We, we are, we're a bit closer in age and, and, and quite similar.
	We've got the same genes and very similar upbringing.
	Definitely some, some differences of note, but no, it's good.
	It's much better.
	And I hold out hope that it'll, it'll be, it'll only get better from here.
	Cause we can't, where we came from, it was, it really sucked.
	And I, At around 10 years old, 10 to 12 years old, I really used my brain to punish him as much as I could, hurt his feelings as much as I could.
	And why?
	I think it was simple power.
	I liked the feeling of dominating.
	Kind of like you said, You know, dad beats the wife, mom beats the kid, the kid kicks the cat.
	You feel helpless, but you can exercise power over him.
	Yeah, and I did.
	And I didn't apologize for it until I was about 20.
	Well, they're better late than never, for sure, in that context.
	Better late than never.
	Good for you.
	Good for you.
	I was just thinking about, I took a woman on vacation To a pretty nice place with a buffet and I... She was sitting closer to the buffet.
	I asked her to grab me a piece of mini cheesecake.
	And what did she say?
	It's too far.
	Well, you know, aren't you getting up again?
	Oh my gosh.
	That was a beautiful thing.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Talk about a guilt-free exit scenario.
	Hopefully before the bill came.
	Well, I'd already paid for the whole vacation, so... Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	No, it was... Okay, so I'm gonna pay for the vacation, but you can't get me a piece of cheesecake.
	Anyway, yeah, so I mean, that's the kind of, you know, look for reciprocity.
	Generosity, look for reciprocity.
	Thank you very much.
	That is, you know, I knew you'd do it.
	I knew you'd like, you'd arc some wire somehow, even though I've listened to six million shows.
	No, but look, I'm telling you, the reason I keep doing them is I'm not doing the same old, same old, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, this isn't something I've talked about in this kind of way before, so hopefully it's helpful to others.
	It sounds like it's helpful for you and I think that's the way to go forward.
	First of all, I'm really, really sorry that you grew up functionally without a dad.
	I'm really sorry that you were beaten, of course, right?
	And I'm sorry that nobody noticed that you were beaten your head against the wall.
	Well, of course they noticed, but didn't act.
	That's appalling.
	I'm sorry that your mom didn't fight more to get what you needed as a child, including a father who's around.
	And I'm sorry that your parents won't listen to your differences of opinion.
	You know, like, it's funny because people know that when you grow into a whole new human being, that human being isn't going to be a copy paste of you, right?
	They know that.
	Everybody knows that kids have thoughts of their own.
	Yes.
	And in yet people are then appalled when kids have thoughts of their own.
	I mean, you could, I guess you could program an AI to be just like you.
	So then just program an AI, but why have a whole child?
	And then, you know, and of course, what do parents always say?
	I want you to think for yourself.
	Yeah.
	No, well, all the other kids were doing it.
	I don't care what all the other kids were doing it.
	You think for yourself.
	Not those thoughts.
	Sorry?
	Oh yeah, except for any of those thoughts that disagree with me in any way.
	It's like, what?
	So now you're the new kids I have to follow that I wasn't supposed to follow the old kids?
	Doesn't make any sense.
	I'm sorry.
	Yeah, that's just a terrible thought.
	I'm sorry?
	Think for yourself, except about the important matters.
	Yeah, or any important matters that disagree with me.
	So, yeah, it's really terrible, because then you realize that they don't.
	They don't like you, they only like the parts of you that blindly agree with them, which is the conformity, which is not you.
	I like the opposite of you is something that most people rot their whole lives Never processing and never reconciling.
	I love the opposite of you.
	In other words, your conformity and your fear, not your originality and your reasoning.
	And, you know, everyone who I love can make a case that I love, even if it's the complete opposite of what I think.
	Because I want them to think for themselves.
	And whether they're right or wrong, I want them to be themselves because I want to love who they are, not What they fear, or me, or something like that, right?
	Right.
	To say, I love the opposite of who you are, because, you know, fear and conformity is the opposite of us.
	To say, I only love and care about the things that are opposite of who you are, is completely mind-bending.
	I don't know how people live like that.
	I have no idea how people live like that.
	It's awful to me.
	You're just completely alone your whole life, because the only thing you like is a mirror.
	And then you call yourself caring?
	And if the mirror's not reflecting you in the way that you want, you just smash the mirror and get a new one, and smash the mirror until you get a new one.
	Right?
	It's crazy.
	It's crazy.
	I'm really sorry about all of that.
	I'm glad that you're getting educated and doing well, and I'm glad that you're dating.
	I'm sure that there's great potential with this relationship, and the way to ignite it is that kind of reciprocity stuff.
	So does that help, as far as maybe next steps?
	It absolutely helps.
	I don't know if it ultimately solves the problem, but that is something obviously we can't do.
	Oh, it'll solve the problem, alright.
	I guarantee you that.
	Well, I'm gonna execute and...
	Maybe I'll send you another email.
	Oh, no, not maybe.
	I hope you will.
	I hope you will.
	I would like to get the updates.
	You can send it on Skype.
	You can email me.
	But yeah, I hope to hear how it's going.
	And if there's anything I can do for you at any time, just let me know.
	Thank you so much, Stefan.
	All right.
	Have a great night, brother.
	Thanks for the call.
	Have a good night.

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