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Feb. 12, 2024 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:46:31
5400 My Teenage Daughter is Attacking Herself!
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Time Text
Hello.
Hey, how's it going?
Hi, Stefan.
I'm OK.
How are you?
I am fine.
I'm fine.
I'm glad to be able to have the chance to chat and I appreciate you taking the time.
And of course, if you have any child care stuff to do, feel free to do it.
That's no worries and so on.
So, gosh, let's hear about what's going on and how I can best help.
Three years ago, beginning of December last year,
I noticed them sitting in the front of my daughter's hair.
She's 15.
So I asked her, what happened here?
And she said, oh, it was itchy.
So I told her, if it's itchy, go ahead and itch it.
Like, why did you pull the hair?
She didn't say.
She's like, oh, it's just itchy.
I didn't take any of it.
I said, okay, wash your hair, you know.
And I got her dandruff shampoo and all that.
The next day, I noticed a gap a little bit wider.
So I asked her, I said, What happened, Mom?
Why are you pulling your hair from here?
And then she said the same thing.
I took her to the dermatologist.
And he checked her scalp and he didn't see any like eczema or irritation.
But he still prescribed me like a hydrocortisone cream.
I put it for her every day.
So whenever she was pulling people's front, I didn't know that she was just... So that's how it started.
Three days later, I went to pick her up from school, and the teacher called me to the side, and he said, I was walking between the desks, and I saw that she had poop, a big chunk of her hair, and she had it on the desk in front of her.
And he's called her, and he's delivered it to the desk girls, takes it from her in the trash.
He's like, why did she poop her hair?
And I was in shock, and I told him, I already took her to the dermatologist.
And he prescribed her some cream.
Maybe I need to take her some again.
Right away, I took her to another dermatologist.
Good thing I don't see any irritation.
I don't see any skin issues.
I think she just needs to wash it more frequently.
It's fine.
In less than a month, she pulled all of her hair.
All of it.
I tried to do it nicely, and then her dad was more stirred with her.
And right away, I started calling around her therapist to see what's wrong.
He saw a problematic substance in a different therapist.
Nobody.
It's been a year now.
Nobody figured out the reason why she's doing this.
If there's a treatment or a solution, people think words.
And I feel helpless to help her.
I don't know what's wrong.
And here in California, they don't allow you, like, to know what conversation happened between the therapist and the patient.
Like, that's my daughter.
She's a minor.
Is there something significant that I need to know about?
They will not say to me.
Like, they will not tell me.
So, at this point, I even had to re-enroll with a therapist from the Netherlands.
He had made a program for habit reversal, because they classify it as an obsessive disorder, kind of like nail biting.
He finished that program.
Also no improvement.
And recently, his hair started growing as soon as it was long enough
For her to hold, she started pulling.
So I grabbed the trimmers and I shimped as far as I could.
All the way down.
Believe me, I tried my hardest to keep back from not crying in front of her.
As soon as I finished shaving her head, I went to my room and I cried for hours.
I didn't know what to do anymore.
That's very, very tough.
Boy, that is really, really tough, and I just really want to express my sympathies about it, first and foremost.
It is really, really a horrible thing to be going through.
Obviously, I'm no psychiatrist or anything like that, but I guess I could ask some questions about, you know, what's the history of your family, your childhood, and all of that kind of stuff would probably be helpful to know.
I'm from the Middle Eastern.
My dad is really tough with us.
More tough on the boys than me.
But, you know, I had a good childhood.
And then I married and I came to the States about 20 years ago.
There is some issues in the marriage.
Between me and my husband.
We kind of, like, we're not really... On the terms, we don't fight in front of the kids.
We don't argue in front of them.
It's just me and him have a very dry relationship.
And that started... I'm sorry, a very what relationship?
Like a dry relationship.
We don't really... You know, we don't sit with each other.
We don't talk much other than... I want some food or...
Give me a drink or anything.
Like, my relationship with my husband got really, like, uh, we were very distant for the last, I would say, eight to nine years.
Um, he, he started taking Xanax to sleep.
And so I think Xanax made him so numb that he doesn't really, um, have any feelings whatsoever towards me or the children.
He's just,
He's there, but he's not really there.
When he comes home from work, he just goes straight to the bedroom.
And he takes the pills and he just falls asleep.
What do you mean?
Sorry, what time does he come home from work?
He comes at around 5pm.
He goes to sleep at 6pm?
Yes.
What do you mean?
He doesn't engage with us at all.
And I spoke to him about it.
We had arguments and fights.
And then he promised he would stop, and he said to rehab two times, to quit the Xanax, but as soon as he did rehab, it was back and he started taking it.
And I told him, it's causing you erectile dysfunction, it's causing you to be distanced, you're missing out on your children, you're growing up, you're missing out on your relationship with your wife, like what's wrong with you?
Do you not see what's happening?
And I think that plays a role.
Wait, so for eight or nine years, your husband's been kind of like a half zombie?
Wh-wh-wh-wh-what?
I-I-I'm-I'm-I'm shocked!
I'm shocked!
Wh-wh-what the heck?
Son, I can't begin to tell you how bad things are.
I cheated at one point.
My brother-in-law, he passed away about three years ago.
He was also on opiates, and so he wanted to detox.
So, my husband,
I told him to come and I'll take care of him because he didn't have anybody to take care of him.
He didn't want to go to his parents.
So I said, fine, I don't mind him staying around, you know, to detox.
That's fine.
You know, he just, and so he stayed for about a couple of weeks and I took care of him.
He got really sick and all that.
And then he started coming more frequent because he loved the kids and he, every day he would come and my kids got attached to him a lot.
And
Um, he passed away, he overdosed.
And so that was the first front blow on my kids.
Especially, especially my daughter because she was, he really spoiled her.
He would like even come in during bedtime and he would tuck them in and he would help them with homework.
He was basically kind of like the father to my children.
I'm sorry, and this was your brother?
My brother-in-law.
Your brother-in-law, so your husband's brother.
He literally became the father when my husband is mentally absent.
And so, when he passed away, that was the best thing for my children.
Sorry, your brother-in-law was clean though when he was around your kids, is that right?
Yeah, he was clean, yeah.
So, how long was he clean before he relapsed?
About a year and a half, something like that.
And he just... He overdosed.
And he was only 43 years old.
Wow.
He loved my kids so much.
And they loved him a lot too.
So that was the first blow.
And then... Well, he didn't love them enough to not overdose.
I know.
So your brother is... Sorry, your husband's brother overdosed and your husband is still... I mean, I don't know much about Xanax, but is it... I thought it was more for, like, a generalized anxiety rather than a specific sleep aid.
I guess it puts him to sleep.
He thinks so.
He takes eight milligrams.
I think the most you should take is two, and he's taking eight because he's been taking it for so long his body got used to it, and so you have to take more and more.
Sorry, I'm just reading here, so it says here, Xanax is commonly prescribed to treat anxiety.
Though it can quickly ease symptoms, it should generally only be used for the shortest time possible.
Right, and he's been on this eight or nine years?
Yeah.
Where's he getting it?
He buys it off the street.
No doctor would prescribe it.
Here in California, they're very strict on opioids and stuff like that.
So he buys it off the street.
And I don't even know if it's genuine or not.
And it came to this point, like I told him, you are now suicidal.
It seems that you just want to numb yourself and feel like that's taking away because you're not enjoying your life.
Sorry to interrupt, but what do you think happened to your husband and his brother that may have given them a susceptibility to this kind of extremely dangerous addiction?
I think part of it plays with their own parents.
They are very materialistic.
They care about money more than anything.
For my brother-in-law, he was hit with a baseball bat while playing baseball in the park.
And so, they prescribed him opioids at the time.
They had pulled his jaw shut for like six months because he completely broke his jaw.
As for my husband, I have no idea why he started.
He just started.
I need to sleep.
I'm not sleeping well.
I don't know who one of his friends gave him some, and he liked it, and he hasn't stopped ever since.
Yeah, that's how both of them started, but I think there's a part of it also, the neglect from their parents.
Parents are, they don't really care much.
About them and my husband and his father work together.
And so my husband was 16 years old.
He was working with his father.
And so he's the only one, you know, my father-in-law was illiterate.
So my husband is basically that does everything, talking to the customers, doing the sales and all that.
And, um, they got audited by the IRS.
And, um, so, um, they owed like a hundred thousand dollars.
And so my father-in-law refused to help him.
He put all the blame on him.
And so my husband, you know, we sold everything that we had.
All the savings were gone.
And then my father-in-law passed away.
And his mother will not give him his inheritance.
And she rubs it in his face all the time.
Wait, so sorry, sorry.
Your husband's father died and there was an inheritance.
Why, if it was an inheritance and it was in the will, why would it be up to the mother to give it or not?
She said, after I die, I will give you.
No, no, but if it's in the will, that's a legal document.
I'm no lawyer, but isn't it the case that if you are left some money, you should get that money, and it's not up to someone else to say whether you should or shouldn't.
You know, if your father-in-law left your husband, I don't know, $50,000, then it's not up to his mother to choose whether that goes to him or not, is it?
That's correct, but he won't mess with his mother at all.
So I don't understand, why would he roll over with his mother?
Why would he just not get what his father gave him?
He won't even ask her for it.
I'm sorry, he won't what?
He won't even ask for it.
He is such a mama's boy.
And he would not even upset her.
Even though he saw what they did with his brother, right?
They didn't care about him at all.
And then so, and I told him, like, this is your right.
What are you doing?
Why don't you ask for your right?
And he would not even ask her, because he doesn't want to upset her.
It's crazy, Stephane.
I'm telling you, this whole thing, I think, for him, is the Xanax.
It's just completely numbed into everything.
Like, he doesn't care.
He's careless.
Everything will be fine.
Don't worry.
It's just fine.
He's so numb.
There's no emotion, even in the most dire situations.
If you see me sometimes crying myself to sleep,
Over what's happening with our daughter, and he doesn't even face them, like, nothing.
Like, why are you crying?
So, sorry, tell me a little bit about how you met your husband, what attracted you to him in the first place, just if you can give me that sort of history.
He came to when I was working, and
I guess he liked me.
And then his sister came in.
And then we exchanged numbers and we sat down and started talking.
And you know, he was a really sweet guy.
That's about 20 years ago.
And very respectful.
Very different from the men from where I was born.
So he's good looking and all that.
And so we started talking and then he left us.
to America and then we continued on talking through emails and phone calls about a year and then he came back and we got engaged and within like six months we were married and I came here.
Of course, I'm from a very traditional family, closed society.
I wouldn't even dare to wear a short-sleeved shirt walking in the street.
So to me, coming to America was like a dream come true, of course.
I could have my freedom here.
I could finally pursue whatever I wanted to do with my life.
I thought of it as a win-win situation.
As soon as I came here, True Colors showed.
I realized how he was not what he said he was.
I told my parents at the time.
They said, give it time, you know, until you get used to each other or whatever.
There were many signs for me to leave, you know?
But I didn't.
And it took me about 40 years to get pregnant.
And as soon as I had my first child, he didn't touch me.
He hasn't touched me ever since.
And I stayed quiet.
And I told my family and everything.
And I decided, OK, I'm going to just stick with it.
I don't want my
We're good to go.
I'm sorry for all of this, it's very heartbreaking, but can you tell me a little bit about, you don't have to tell me the country, but what culture did you come from that was so conservative?
Okay, so you came from the Middle East and this guy was, you said respectful, right?
So there's that sort of cliche that the Middle Eastern guys are kind of dominant and aggressive and so on.
So this guy was more sensitive and that was appealing to you, right?
Yes, exactly.
And did your parents or your family, did they meet him before you got married?
Yes, they did.
And they approved of him?
They thought of him as wonderful.
Yeah, they thought of him as wonderful.
He was very respectful.
He talked in a, you know, sweet manner, and he, you know, he just, like, swooped us off of our feet.
But then when I came here, and every day-to-day interactions with him,
I was 21 years old.
I had no experience.
Is he the same age as you, more or less?
No, he's six years older.
Okay, so help me understand this, because I've heard this before, right?
This sort of chameleon, right?
He seemed perfect, and then he was the complete opposite.
Now, that's... I mean, I get that you were a young woman and all of that, but that seems hard to imagine that he could just have a complete personality switch and, you know, maybe this was the case, but there were no signs of any dysfunction before... So, did he change after you got married?
Is that right?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so, and you were talking and back and forth for how long?
I know it was long distance for some of it, but how long did you know him before you got married?
About a year.
Okay, so you talked for a year, and then you moved to the States, is that right?
Yes, correct.
And when you moved to the States, you did so to marry him?
No, we... Oh, you married in the Middle East, is that right?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so you married in the Middle East, and then... He was totally fine, although, now, for all the time that you knew each other, how long was the long-distance part of it where you weren't face-to-face?
About nine.
So you really only had three months of face-to-face before you got married, is that right?
Yes.
Correct.
Okay.
And did you know much about his family history, his family life, his childhood, his upbringing and so on before you married him?
My family, my mom,
Um, has some relatives here in the States.
They live in the St.
Mary, and so she asked them to ask around, right, to know if their family situation is good.
And everybody they talked to, they gave them much praise on how they are.
And, um, of course, um, for most important things to people, they say, Oh, they have money.
Oh, they are good.
They have work.
They go to school.
Oh, so he was a wealthy, good-looking guy?
Yeah.
And did that sweep you off your feet a little bit and lower your judgment a little bit?
It's not even about that, Stefan.
It's more like, because I come from a good, you know, socio-economical family.
It's not about that.
It was for me about
Okay, he's different than all the guys in my country.
He's not rude, he actually opens the door for me, doesn't yell at me.
Oh my God, he brings me flowers, like, nothing.
Yeah, so he's charming.
Men in my country are very, very, completely opposite.
Charming is not always bad, but it can be a warning sign, right?
If somebody's really charming, they might be pulling a number on you, right?
Oh my God, what a person.
Wow.
If I only knew... Right, so there was no indication of problems before you got married, and then what happened, you know, sort of wedding day, honeymoon, like how quick did you flip?
Right.
As soon as I came to the States.
So, I come here, it's new culture, I'm in culture shock, I don't know what to do, how to drive here, where's the store, how do you shop, the money, nothing.
I come here, and first thing,
I said, he said, go shop, go grab some groceries.
I said, okay, are you going to come with me?
I didn't know where the store is.
I don't know how to buy things here.
So he takes me in the car.
This is the first thing that he did to me.
And he drops me off in the street.
He says, across the street, right there, there's a store.
Go, go grab some groceries.
And I sat and I looked at him and I was like, I don't know what to do.
Like, we don't have big stores like there in my country.
Can you come with me?
He said, no, go.
He yelled at me.
So I got out of the car and I'm walking to the front of the store and I just looked around and I just said, okay, I don't know what to do.
So I just walked to like where the fruits and vegetables and then all of a sudden he walks in behind me.
So mean to me.
We grabbed whatever, and we went home.
Wait, wait, sorry.
So, sorry.
He told you to go into the store on your own, and then he followed you into the store, and was mean to you?
What happened?
After like 15 minutes.
Yeah, after like 15 minutes.
He just walked in behind me, and he started yelling.
He says, Cobra, you dropped this!
And so, I just kept my mouth shut.
I was just embarrassed.
I didn't know what to do.
We go home.
It was the first time.
The second time, he did it to me.
We go to a friend of his and so he gets down from the car and runs inside the house to his friend's house.
I was still getting out of my car putting my jacket on and I looked around and he was gone.
I didn't even know which house it was.
I'm like, what the hell?
I started looking around like, where the hell did he go?
We didn't have cell phones back then.
And so I started across the street, and I'm looking to see if an open door... Then I saw, like, a door open on the side of the house.
I kind of looked in, and then I saw people inside, and I said, Hi!
Um, is this the party place?
And I walked in, and I said, Hi, I'm- I'm White.
Um... And then they said, Oh, he's- he's in the backyard.
And I walked in, and I didn't see him.
I sat in the backyard, all alone.
For hours.
He didn't even come look for me, or anything.
Where was he, though?
He was just smoking with his friends on the other side of the house.
He didn't even, like, walk with me.
He said, hey, my new wife, this is this person.
And this happened every single time.
So finally I decided I'm not going with you anywhere.
I think my old... Sorry, sorry, back up.
So he turns out to be kind of an a-hole, right?
Like he's mean, he's cruel, he puts you in these impossible situations, he's lording it over you, and he's kind of humiliating you, he's mean to you, he ignores you, he takes off on you, like just really, just terrible behavior, right?
Right.
So why, why did you stay?
No, no, no, that's not an answer.
That's not an answer.
And you're not.
Because I did want my kids to grow up in a broken home, and I had to make a decision.
No, but you didn't have kids yet.
You said, sorry, if I understood, sorry to interrupt.
Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but as far as I understood it, didn't you say it took you four years to get pregnant?
Yeah, it took me four years.
So, no, no, no, there's no kids in broken homes.
For four years!
There's no kids!
So why- and I'm not trying to be mean to you, I'm genuinely curious.
Because listen, I mean, I've stayed in dysfunctional relationships, so I'm not, like, I'm not lording it over you, I'm not better than, I'm just genuinely trying to understand.
This guy turns, like, to be a horrible person, and you stay with him for four years trying to have babies.
What's the thinking behind all of that?
Number one is that if I go back, I will be a prisoner of my parents' house for the rest of my life.
For the rest of my life.
Why would you be a prisoner?
Because nobody else would marry you?
Nobody else.
And of course I would be a disgrace to my family.
No man would want to marry me.
That's a damaged product, basically, to them.
Well, but, sorry to interrupt, sorry to interrupt, but, I mean, could you not find another man, I know it might be tougher to stay in the States, but could you not find another man in the US, or something like that?
I mean, this is still post-internet, maybe you could meet a man online, or something like that, so, I mean, wouldn't there be some kind of options?
If I did that, they would disown me, if I left my husband on my own accord.
And just stay in the U.S., they would disown me.
100%.
So if I were to leave, I would not go back.
Okay, but if they're that mean, that they're going to lock you up and shame you and disown you for trying to get out of an abusive or terrible relationship, and again, I know that's easy to say, but isn't it kind of like Goodriddance?
I mean... I mean, they're not living with him, you are!
I know.
They always say, because it's a traditional marriage thing, oh, you're getting to know each other.
Just be patient.
Or sometimes, you know, he may be stressed out.
All kinds of excuses.
And I took it all in.
I took it all in.
I listened to them, and they told me, hey, he will get better, you know.
Things will get better.
And so I did.
I did.
And do your parents have a good marriage?
A marriage that you would be happy to... If something like that happened to you, you'd be happy with your parents' marriage?
What are the issues with your parents' marriage?
My mom ran away from her own family.
Somebody from a different country to get away from the oppression of the family.
And so, she came to a village.
He was not how he claimed also to be.
So I did the same mistake like my mom did.
I repeated the same mistake.
Well, she helped you to do that too, right?
Yeah, she did.
And I blamed her for it.
And I told her about it.
I said, you should not let me do that.
You should have told me to repeat the same mistake that you encouraged me to.
Thinking that he's from a different country, maybe he's better.
My husband was from a different country.
And look how your life was.
Wow, okay.
Yeah, so she, I mean, she did kind of sabotage your life, right?
Encouraged me to get out, you know.
Right, okay.
Sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, after that, my parents, I think, were like, okay, you need to have children.
Time to have children, you know.
And so,
I was not on birth control, never took any birth control, but I never got pregnant either.
So we went to do in vitro and it did not work.
And the last try I was there, the doctor walked in with a team of interns, maybe seven or eight of them.
And so he looked at me, he said, you know what?
I don't think this method is going to work for you.
You're going to need to do the IBS, the one that costs $25,000.
Otherwise, you're not going to get pregnant.
Just like that.
Just like that.
While he's doing the procedure for me.
And so the very next day, I got my period.
And then I told my husband, this is it.
If God is not going to give me children, no man is going to give me children.
I'm not going to try again.
I'm done.
If you want children, you can let me go back to my family.
You go marry.
I'm done.
He said, no, I don't want kids.
I don't want kids.
Whatever.
We're fine like this.
I'm fine.
I don't want kids.
And so we just let go.
We let it go.
And then this is my first time I go back to my country.
And while I think we were there, it seems that I got pregnant because we came back here and I was not feeling well.
I went to the doctor and he told me, you're pregnant.
So everybody was happy for us.
Like I was ecstatic that I was pregnant.
And so we had our first child and after the first child, he got so bad.
And it's now like six months or seven months, and he hasn't touched me.
And I told him, what's going on?
Like, why?
Why are you not touching me?
What's wrong?
You know, I did not gain that much weight.
I look okay.
And then, I don't want to say this.
I'm not going to say what he said to me so far.
But you can just imagine what he said, the more things you can say to him.
That he doesn't find you attractive anymore?
He said, I don't like having sex with women with a nude vagina.
Oh gosh.
I'm very sorry.
I mean, obviously that's just, you're right.
I mean, that's just absolutely appalling.
I let it go.
Okay, we can move on.
Take care of the kids.
I'm sorry, you had your first kid, and then you just had kids, so... Yes, and then after about a year and three months, I was pregnant again.
And after my daughter, we completely became just a groupie.
We groupied.
Absolutely.
Even though I tried so hard, Stefan, to make us intimate again.
Nothing.
No amount of lingerie.
No amount of poise.
Sweet talking.
Nothing.
I tried it all.
And finally I gave up.
I was just like, forget it.
Forget it.
He doesn't want me.
You can't push someone to love you when they don't love you.
So I let it go.
And I'm focusing on the kids.
I'm planning on that too.
It's just killing me.
And I feel a big amount of guilt, you know?
My daughter, she, uh, it took her a long time to dehydrate.
So she's almost nine years old and she's doing her best and I did not just, you know,
I took her to the doctors, the specialists, and they did all kinds of study, they prescribed medication, and they gave her like a machine that you put in your undies.
At night, if there's a little bit of moisture, it's an alarm.
A lot of it rings, and so to get her, you know, get up and go at night.
So finally, she got clean and everything.
Then, uh, this is, this is the key point.
When she was in fourth grade,
The teacher would ask me to come in and she would tell me, well, your daughter is doing this weird hand movement during class.
It's very distracting.
I was like, what hand movement?
She flutters her hand out of the blue.
I said, okay, what's wrong with that?
She said, I don't know.
I just want to let you know that she's doing that.
And I said, okay.
Well, maybe she was excited about something.
Yeah.
Every day she was asking that.
And then I started talking to my daughter and asking her, what's going on?
And she said, nothing.
She's picking on me.
Every day she picks on me.
She's so mean to me.
And I was like, what?
Really?
So I went to school and I talked to the principal and I said, can you please move my daughter to a different classroom?
I think the teacher is not being friendly with my daughter and it's stressing her out.
So he said, let me talk to the teacher and see what's going on.
The next day he tells me,
You need to take her to a doctor.
Without a doctor's note, I'm not going to move her.
And I said, doctor's note?
For what?
Well, the teacher said that your daughter has some kind of mental disorder.
And I said, excuse me?
Are you serious?
So I went and I took her in the same day as the phone.
Same day.
I took her to the primary care doctor.
And he referred her to a neurologist.
He told me, the PCP, that there's something wrong with your daughter.
You know, if you want to do a more intensive or deeper diagnosis, take her to this.
He made that appointment.
I call in and I say, okay, so what do I need to do?
He said, this is a neurologist.
You need to deprive her from food and water and sleep.
After 6 p.m., you cannot let her fall asleep.
Then around 2 a.m., you bring her to us.
We're going to do a stress test.
We're going to put her on a treadmill and we're going to flash light in her eyes to try to induce a seizure.
So I told her, you want me to deprive my child from food and sleep and water, then I'm going to bring it to you in the middle of the night for you to do a stress test.
If she doesn't have a seizure, she's going to get one.
And I refused to take her cancelled appointment.
And I went back home and I was telling my friend what happened and I said, I don't know what to do.
Like, I don't want my daughter to continue with this teacher.
Yet the principal won't move her without a doctor's note.
Like, I don't know what to do.
And she told me,
Let's write a letter to the superintendent and send it to her and see if we can put pressure on the principal.
So I took the letter by hand and I registered mail, you know, sent it by registered mail.
Two days later, she calls me, the superintendent, and she, can I three-way the principal?
And I said, please.
She said, what's happening?
I told him, I told her the situation.
I told her this is what Dr. Wyman is from a neurologist to do to my child.
You know, can I just make move the teacher?
Maybe it's a teacher.
And so, she told the principal, can you please move her daughter tomorrow?
And right away, the next day, we go to school.
The principal, the new teacher, has a welcome party for my daughter.
All my daughters grinned with us.
All of them.
She was the happiest you could ever be.
So I figured, okay, that was the teacher.
She's speaking about my daughter.
Maybe because I'm Middle Eastern?
I don't know.
I don't know what it was, but I was happy she was moved.
And then, the year after that, lockdown came.
Lockdown.
So, she lost contact with her friends.
They were not able to do the online schooling thing.
Sorry, your daughter wasn't told her friends weren't?
I'm sorry.
Yeah, she lost contact with them.
No, I know that, but you said they weren't able to do the online schooling thing, and I'm not sure who they refers to.
Oh, yeah.
My children.
Okay, your children, so.
But why couldn't they do the online thing?
They were not able to sit down and just listen to the teacher and whatever.
It was so choppy, and the timing was not correct, and so they were unable to focus at all.
So I took it upon myself.
I went and I bought curriculum for her grade and his grade.
And I started doing the homeschooling with them.
And so during this time, so they stayed two weeks, now it's two years.
They missed two years of their life from social interactions and everything.
And I promised just to find nobody far harder than me to stop the lockdown.
I said most of the time, while they are at home, protesting.
And I feel a certain guilt when it comes to that too, because I didn't change anything.
All the protesting I did, it didn't change nothing.
It was nothing.
I should have spent that time with my children instead, you know.
I feel big guilt when it comes to that.
Sorry to interrupt, did you talk, did you think, I'm sure you did think, did you think of moving to a place with less lockdowns?
My husband refuses to live here.
I'm sorry, say it again?
More than one.
He refuses to leave California.
Okay.
He does not want to live here.
I tried that many times.
He doesn't want to move.
And so, even though he doesn't have any family here, but he doesn't want to.
So, I'm stuck.
And, uh, so, yeah, I, she was left alone a lot during this time.
Oh, because your husband was working and you were protesting?
Right, okay.
Yeah.
Then, um, after that, um, time passed.
Now, we go back to school after two years.
My son is now going to high school and he was fine.
I did not want my daughter to be messed up.
And I figured it would not help her at all, you know, especially that in two years without, you know, being locked up, they didn't see anything.
I wanted her to have face-to-face interaction.
So, all the public schools were forced, and they were trying to push the vaccine on them, too.
So, I told my husband, I'm going to find a private school for her, and I'm going to put her in a Christian private school.
And I found one.
And the school is amazing in every single way you can think of.
Um, so she was there for two years.
And, uh, everything is great there.
It's a little bit more homework, so she felt best there.
But, you know, like, I'm home.
I'm always helping her and everything.
Then, uh, come the, so toward the end of the last year, she was there.
That's when the pulling started.
And I spoke to the principal and all the teachers.
And I said, Dad is going through this.
And I don't know what happened to you.
Is there something that you guys can tell me?
Something happened at the school?
Some kids, like, harassed her?
Anybody, like, any clue why she's going through this?
Nobody.
They said she's good.
She plays.
She has more friends.
And, uh, she's a little bit, like, closed off.
She doesn't really like mingling with the girls too much.
She likes the company of the boys more.
But not really anything that
Noticeable.
And so, um... That's how we got to the point where, you know, towards the end of the last edition there, so... And I had to ask the principal, because she didn't care where I'd be, because she has a bull spot.
And they allowed it, and they were very grateful with everything.
Like, I think if she was in a different school, things would have been way much worse.
Um, they...
They made homework load much less for her.
They gave her more time to do homework in her meeting.
So, they were very helpful in her situation.
And that did not help.
Less homework and all that.
So, I couldn't put my finger on why, you know, she started pulling.
And I was afraid that she was maybe molested or something.
So, I talked to her and I said, has somebody touched you in a completely?
Anybody like passing here at school?
Anything?
No, no, no.
And, um, so I think maybe hypnosis.
We can figure it out.
Okay.
Maybe she will not tell me.
She's afraid to tell me.
So I found a hypnotist that would try to hypnotize her.
And of course, because, uh, he, uh, no clinics were allowed to have patients.
And so on Skype,
And he sat down, you know, she laid on the bed, and he tried to hypnotize her, which I don't think it worked, but he started asking her a question.
Has somebody like that, anything, and everything she told him.
Because I watched the tape afterwards.
Everything she told him was a lie.
He asked her, when was the last time you pulled your hair?
And she said, oh, I was in my room.
He said, well, what were you feeling back then?
And she said, I was happy.
He's like, really?
You were happy?
Who did you see?
Before you went into the room, she said, Oh my God, Kim, he came in and he kissed me.
And he said, How are you?
And I said, Okay, and then I was happy.
And I said, I told him after that, to the guy, I said, No, this does not make any sense.
Like, you should have pressed her more.
And that doesn't make any sense.
You can't be happy and you start hurting yourself.
So right away, I felt this.
Somebody else different about just about six or seven different therapists.
Then I found this therapist from the Netherlands and I purchased his book and I was reading and he had a program.
It's like habit reversal, right?
And like nail biting, you have to stop that habit.
So kind of like one of the therapies for this.
Did not work.
Nothing works, Stefan.
All these therapists, not one of them was able to reach the core reason why she started pulling.
Nobody.
And then, uh, my brothers came here, and, uh, they were telling me, your daughter's not normal, you know that?
And I told them, what do you mean?
They're like, other than the hair pulling.
She seems to be autistic, you know that, right?
And I told them,
I see some tics in her, okay?
It's fine.
But I don't trust doctors here.
If one of them says something to social services or anything, I will not be able to get her back.
All the lawyers in the world will not be able to get her back if I lose her to the system here.
I'm scared to put her through that.
Look at what kind of tests they want to do on her.
I don't want an incitement.
Look at her father's incitement.
What's happened to him?
I'm scared.
I'm scared of them.
I'm scared of the doctors.
I don't trust them.
I don't want to get her diagnosed.
She's fine.
I'll work on her myself.
It's a fun.
I don't know if I'm crazy or not.
But I'm scared.
I'd like to take a second to think.
I'm sticking to therapy, okay?
We should be all hands-on with her, okay?
We should all just be very good with her, keep her engaged, keep her, like, happy, not stressful.
She doesn't need to be in a stressful situation.
I took the phone away from her, no tablet, no internet, take her out for sports, make her go out on camps and everything, and I'm gonna teach her how to be responsible and take care of herself and help with the house chores and all of that.
And I'm being judged.
But no, you're not doing enough because you're not taking me to a psychiatrist.
Sorry, what did your brothers say about her behaviour that they expressed these concerns?
What did she manifest?
That she's autistic.
No, I know, but that's what they're saying, but what behaviours were they observing that you think might have led them in that direction?
Um that she has that her movement the fluttering of her hand That's uh, she doesn't focus like when they ask a question they have to ask it to her twice And the first time she says, huh?
And then she'll then ask her again and then she'll answer She's not like, uh, if she's uh zones out.
Uh, she's uh, uh
Repetitive, like in her movements, for example, like she'll get up and just like jump up and down like five times.
She has, yeah, like certain, you know, body movements that she repeats.
But throughout the day, like in the morning when she wakes up is the most, like she'll bounce up and down.
If she's bored or if she gets excited about something, she'll jump up and down.
When it comes to schooling, her grades are excellent.
She's an artist, very creative.
She has a little hard time with math, but she, you know, A's and B's, her grades.
She doesn't have a disability when it comes to learning.
She writes the most beautiful.
She wrote a poem, and she won over the whole district.
So, educationally, she's excellent.
Friend-wise, she has one best friend, and she talks to a couple other students in the school, but one mainly, like, close friends.
And she loves her brother, even though her brother
He's distant now from her.
He's, like, ashamed of her.
He doesn't want her to walk with her to school.
He doesn't talk to her or interact with her to school.
He's also blaming me for not taking her to a psychiatrist.
He tells me that he has his whole life ahead of him.
He doesn't have time for her.
And that as soon as he's out, he's out.
He's not going to care for her whatsoever.
It broke my heart.
And I said, this is how you talk about your sister?
What happens if I die?
He says, yeah, that's what I'm trying to tell you.
If you die, who's going to take care of her?
You need to put her in, like, an institution or something.
That's my son's.
I could not believe he started talking like that about his sister.
Wait, you're, sorry, your son, who's been raised by a non-empathetic, cruel, and emotionally distant dad, is himself cruel and non-empathetic?
Of course!
Isn't that how it works?
So I explained to him that I don't trust the kinds of children I understand.
I'm scared of them.
I don't want them to hurt her with medication.
And he said, well, you need to know what's wrong with her.
I told him, well, the therapist told me, told the spectrum, okay, but she's not as bad as the rest.
It's just the hair pulling thing.
I need to figure out why she's doing it.
And so he said, do whatever you want.
And he went in his room and shut the door.
And I'm looking at my husband.
And he says, yeah, he's alright, you know?
And I said, well, fine.
Do you want to take a trip to Stratford High School?
Go for it.
I'm not going to get the one.
Let's get him.
I'm not fooling him.
Okay?
You want to do it?
Go for it.
Of course she's not going to.
I know he wasn't getting the one.
I sat down with her.
Last week.
And I said, can you explain to me?
Because
I saw a new patch.
As soon as the hair grew a little bit long, she's pulled.
And I immediately said, did it hurt on your hair?
She said, no.
What do you mean, no?
If I try to pull my hair, it hurts.
You're pulling, like, with the chunks at, like, one time.
It's not one hair you're pulling.
I was like, how do you pull?
And she said, she puts, like, about maybe 50 or 60 strands.
Between her fingers, and she twists her fingers, and then she pulled, like, viciously, vicious way over.
Pull it!
And I said, oh my gosh, that hurts a lot!
And she said, I don't feel it.
Like, what do you mean?
I don't feel any pain when I pull hair.
I was like, really?
Okay, so I grabbed, like, a handful of her diaper, and I pulled a little bit, and she's like, ow!
I was like, yeah, that's all I can tell you now.
Like, it hurts!
How are you not feeling any pain in your skull?
No, I don't feel anything.
I said, why do you think you have the need to pull so much?
And then she said, I just, it just bothers me.
I was like, okay, if it bothers you, well keep it short like a kid.
But if you keep pulling from the boot, you'll get it through the thumb call.
And then you might not grow a hair again in your scalp.
You don't want to wear rings for the rest of your life.
You'll have beautiful hair.
And she said, I don't know.
I just, I don't feel myself moving.
It doesn't hurt.
And I can't touch the phone.
I don't feel her.
Is she answering me?
I don't feel... So my brother told me maybe she has something.
Maybe she really doesn't feel pain.
Maybe that's why she's pulling it.
It's kind of like, if they say it's a habit, it's just a habit.
Maybe we should do like a neurological test on her.
Like see if she has like the nerve endings in her head.
I don't know if I'm doing her wrong, if I'm to blame.
I don't know what... I'm lost.
I'm lost.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean when you say that you're lost.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just not sure what you mean.
I can't find the first person that really can
No, no, no!
Forget about your daughter for a second!
You're in a loveless, dysfunctional, non-communicative relationship with a drug addict!
Help me understand what you mean when you say that you're lost.
This is one of the most miserable marriages I've ever heard of.
I mean, from what you're telling me.
Yeah, I would get in a lot of trouble.
So, I'm trying to sort of help you understand your focus on your daughter.
When you're as miserable a person, and I mean this with sympathy, I don't mean miserable like mean or bad, you're as unhappy a person as I've ever heard.
And how are you going to fix your daughter if you're miserable?
I tried to hide it.
I don't care.
No, honestly.
See, now we're back to talking about your kids.
I'm not talking about your kids.
I'm talking about you!
What are you doing?
In this miserable existence?
I don't know.
I'm scared to leave.
I'm so scared to leave.
In what way?
I've never been on my own all my life.
I went to my parents' house to hear.
I don't know how to do it on my own.
Come on!
No, no, no.
What do you mean you don't know how to do it on your own?
What are you saying?
You don't know how to sign a lease or pay bills?
I don't understand what you mean.
No, I have a college degree.
I can afford that.
I would have to move.
Every listener to this show gets from me the top 1% of intelligence.
So you don't get, in my view, you don't get to roll over and play dead intellectually.
Because you listen to this show.
Yeah, I'm not... I'm honestly telling... So you're a highly intelligent woman.
I would have to move.
I'm sorry?
I would have to move away from where I live right now.
I would not be able to afford paying rent here.
Okay.
And that would make the children have to choose between me or their father.
And I'm sure my son would want to go with his father because he's not there.
He allows him to do whatever he wants to do.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Have you talked to a lawyer?
Um, no.
So, hang on.
So, listen.
Have I listened a lot?
I've listened for like an hour, right?
You did, you did.
So you need to let me talk a little.
Because every time I start to talk, you're talking over me.
I don't mean to be mean, it's just we're not going to have a very productive conversation if I can't get a word in edgewise, alright?
So if you haven't talked to a lawyer, how do you know what the outcome of a separation would be?
I'm just guessing on what my son would choose.
That he would choose to be with his father because there is no
Limitations on what he can do, how long he can stay up or play video games.
So to me, I know my daughter would come with me, but my son, I know that I would lose in touch with him.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
No, hang on, hang on.
How do you know that?
When I went back to visit my family.
No, no, legally!
No, legally!
I don't mean like in terms of they choose.
Legally!
How do you know?
I mean, isn't a share... I don't know what the law is.
I mean, I have some idea if the law is in California, like there's a 10-year marriage rule, at least from what I've heard, and I think that the courts in America try to help the children continue as undisrupted as possible, right?
So, how do you... I don't think that the kids just get to choose who they live with.
I think there's shared custody.
I think there's all kinds of things, right?
Also, I don't know.
I mean, if you can convince the court
And I'm not giving any legal advice here, right?
I'm just saying that if the court understands that your husband is a coming-up-for-10-year-drug-addict, I mean, I assume that's going to have some effect on their deliberation.
So, again, don't talk to me.
I'm not a lawyer.
But I don't understand
This sort of fear, and you're creating all of these ghost stories to scare yourself with instead of talking to somebody who would actually know.
I don't follow.
Well, my first reason is that I don't want them to grow up in a broken home.
That's my first reasoning, right?
Okay, tell me what you mean by broken home.
The parents are divorced.
Okay, but hang on, hang on, hang on.
What do you mean by divorced?
I mean, do you mean like the legal thing or the fact that you barely talk to your husband and he drugs himself when he gets home from work?
Aren't you letting your children bond and get modeled by a drug addict?
Again, maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't know what you mean by broken home.
You know, if you bought a dog for your kids and it kept biting them, would you say, well, I don't want to separate them from their pet?
It's like, it's not a pet, it's an attack dog!
And your husband is not fathering, it sounds like.
He's not parenting.
He's not being a husband or a father.
He's a drug addict.
So I don't know what you mean by broken home.
Isn't it broken already?
I'm happy to be corrected.
I'm just telling you what I think.
Oh, my questions.
Later, Mr. Farr.
I need this.
I need this, please.
I'm sorry?
I need this from you.
No, I'm just honestly asking questions.
You have this boogeyman called divorce that has kept you in a loveless, abusive marriage for over ten years.
But it's not about you, right?
You're a mother.
Who's it about?
What's your one goal as a mother?
What's the one thing you absolutely have to do as a mother?
Children, protect them.
No, you have to keep your children safe, you have to expose them to the best things in life, right?
Absolutely.
Okay.
Absolutely.
So, having your children grow up
With a drug addict in the house, who's cold and mean and I assume abusive to some degree, right?
Is that what's best for your children?
It would suck.
It just sucks.
It's what's best for you, because you've defined yourself into a corner, right?
You've defined yourself into a corner so that, well, I have to stay married, and I have to do this, and I can't move, and I'm gonna lose my son, and right, so you've, you've, but this is not real, this is all just stuff you've made up to justify the fact that you don't want to make a decision.
Does your husband drive the children when he's on drugs?
He doesn't go anywhere.
Oh, he doesn't go anywhere?
He's never in charge of them when he's high?
Never.
He just stays in the room.
And so, he doesn't take us anywhere.
I take the kids and do stuff with them.
He doesn't engage at all.
So, they effectively have no father.
From what I understand.
Is that right?
Okay.
Except he's in the room and he's in the house.
Do they feel comfortable having friends come over with a drugged out dad in his room?
They don't.
My son's friends, they come and they go straight to his room and they don't sit with us in the family.
They just walk and say hi.
They go up to the room and they close the door.
They stay for a little bit and then they leave.
They don't stay for long.
I know, Stefan, what I need to do, but it's true.
Okay, but so tell me what you're scared of.
That's what I want to understand.
Because you're making up all of these stories.
Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong.
I don't know.
I'm no lawyer, but help me understand what you're scared of.
I don't... I know... They're going to say, okay, he's on drugs.
So it's still about you!
No, it's still about you!
It's still about you.
Well, I don't want my kids to blame me, and I don't want to be criticized, and I don't want this.
But you're a mom.
It's not about you.
It's about what's best for your kids.
Now, I don't know what's best for your kids, obviously.
I'm not there.
I don't know.
I mean, I just know what you've told me, so I don't know what's best for your kids.
But you can't be acting out of fear of any kind of criticism.
Because then it's about you.
It's about protecting yourself, not your children.
Am I wrong?
I mean, I could be wrong.
I'm happy to be corrected.
I don't know.
I'm staying here for them.
That's what I tell myself.
No!
No!
No, you haven't said... No, no, let's be honest, man.
You haven't said one thing about what's for them.
You've said it's all about you.
I don't want to move.
I don't want to be criticized.
I don't want this.
I don't want that.
You haven't said anything about them.
What you've told me is that it's all about you.
Alright.
Alright.
Alright.
Every day that your children are in a household with parents who hate each other, they're digging themselves a little deeper into being imprinted with a really bad relationship.
Right?
How long is it going to take for them to dig themselves out of that hole when they get older?
Or are they just going to end up
I'm sure she thinks so.
I'm sure she does.
Okay, so your daughter knows how miserable you are, and would you say that you are, now, but particularly when you were younger, when you were 21, were you very physically attractive?
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
So, to some degree, you chose your husband out of looks and money, and to some degree, your husband chose you out of looks and money, right?
Now, I have no idea what's going on with your daughter, obviously, right?
I'm nowhere competent to talk about any of that sort of stuff.
But let me give you a theoretical scenario, not involving your daughter, right?
Now, in a girl's eyes, physical attractiveness will lead her to the life her mother has.
So, if you were chosen for your looks, then, if you're miserable, a girl could very easily in her head say, good looks, being attractive, leads to misery.
Being good looking attracts dangerous men.
Being good-looking gets you married and miserable.
So it's, to me, theoretically possible that a girl would say, looks lead to absolute misery.
Being good-looking.
Now, a primary attribute of a woman's good looks
is her hair, right?
And you said your daughter has very attractive hair, right?
Nice hair.
Is that right?
Very thick and curly hair.
Beautiful hair.
So, if your husband chose you for your good looks, and you're miserable, and you have been miserable for... for how long have you been miserable?
Oh, ten to twelve years.
I'm sorry?
About 10 years.
10 to 12 years.
No longer.
Not longer.
And then he comes in 15 minutes later and starts yelling at you, and then he takes you to a party, disappears, you don't even know where the party is, he leaves you alone in a new country with strangers.
So... If your daughter's 13, took you 4 years to get pregnant, that's 17 years ago, isn't it?
Yeah.
Not, uh, 13.
Uh...
We're 18.
How many years ago did you get married?
20 years ago.
And what is the longest time of truly sustained happiness you've had in your marriage?
For how long were you and your husband, like was it a week, a month, six months, a year, that you and your husband were very happy?
Or just happy?
The longest?
Oh my god.
I would say maybe the longest was about a month.
And I would say that came
The second year when I started working, so I wasn't home and then I was happy at the work because I started making friends and all that.
No, no, in your marriage, like in your marriage, so you've had a month's sustained happiness.
I've never been happy, never.
So you've never been happy in your marriage?
Never.
Okay.
So your daughter or again can't speak to your daughter in particular a girl who looks at her mother and says my mother was chosen for her beauty and it led to 20 years of misery so my beauty is dangerous and the best way
To not be chosen for my beauty is to destroy my hair.
I mean, let me ask you this, let me ask you this.
If you go back, if you go back 21 years to when you met your husband,
Would you have preferred, in hindsight, would you have preferred to be bald when you met him?
I'm not saying bald forever.
I'm just saying that when you met him, would you have preferred to have a really bad cold, to have some giant pimples or something, right, that made you unattractive to your husband?
I wish that every day, Stefan.
Right, so you curse, in a sense, your youthful beauty, right?
Yeah.
Because panic got you snared, right?
Sorry, go ahead.
I let go of myself the past five years.
And have you, like, gained weight, or what is it that you mean by that?
Yeah.
And how much weight have you gained?
I'm now 210.
And your height?
I am 5'4".
Right.
Okay, so you have wrecked, in a sense, your physical beauty, and to some degree your health, right?
So, you are trying to get your daughter to preserve her attractiveness while modelling the destruction of your own.
You were saying, it's better for my life if I'm less attractive, and then your daughter is making herself less attractive!
Right?
It just clicked in my head.
Because she always calls me, Mom, why are you so fat?
Right.
And what's your answer?
I always joke and say that's my belly.
You joke and say what?
No, it clicked in my head.
It's a beer belly.
Oh, it's a beer belly.
Okay, so what's the honest answer, hang on, what's the honest answer to your daughter as to why you've gained so much weight?
If you could be perfectly honest, without consequences, what would you say to your daughter?
She says, why have you gained so much weight?
Why are you so overweight?
What would you say?
Because my husband doesn't touch me, doesn't care for me, doesn't love me.
So why should I even worry about it?
He's not going to touch me either way.
You're not attracted to me.
Why should I care?
Right.
And then she would say, but wouldn't you care because you want to stay healthy for us kids?
Or stay healthy for yourself?
Or of course it could just be another way of staying in a bad marriage because if you're overweight then maybe another guy won't choose you or whatever, right?
And has your husband said anything about your weight gain?
I'm sorry?
I don't really care.
Oh, he doesn't care?
He doesn't care.
Right.
Yeah.
But that was my most wishes.
After I had my daughter a couple of years old, like when I was twenty... I don't know, like thirty-two?
I was ten...
And I, um, my, my spirit was, uh, because my kids weren't good and healthy, they took care of me and everything was, like, to me and how I felt was my best.
And then, uh, I slowly started learning more, especially after my brother-in-law passed away, and, uh, my responsibility also fell on my shoulders, right?
Because the father is still absent.
And so I played both, uh, mother and the father role.
Which confused the kids, by the way.
I'll just step on it.
I thought about leaving many times.
It's just, I'm afraid of what could come after.
Do you think I want to go down this road of your fears again?
You've said this to me about half a dozen times.
Hang on.
Hang on.
You've said this to me about half a dozen times about your fears, and I'm fears, and I'm sobbing, and I'm sad, and I'm upset, and I'm crying, and I'm this, and I'm that.
What do you think my reaction is to you after I say you gotta focus on your kids, you talking about your own fears again?
You gotta focus on your kids!
But I, me, me, I!
What about your kids?
But I, me, me, I!
What about your kids?
But I, me, me, I!
What's best for your children?
Not what's best for you, not what's easiest for you, or less fearful for you, or... What's best for your kids?
I don't know the answer to that!
But what's best for your kids isn't you talking about, I mean I!
My fears, my feelings, my this, my that, my the other.
I mean you've been doing that for 20 years!
How's that working out?
I'm good.
I'm good.
What do your friends say if you've talked to them about your marriage?
They understand that there is a way I stay, and they also understand that
He's the father.
He's a good guy, you know, in general, right?
He doesn't beat them up.
He doesn't yell at them.
He doesn't, you know, so... Kind of like, do whatever you want to do.
You know, we're here for you.
But either way,
And my family wanted me to leave the kids and him and just go back home.
And I said no, I'm not going to leave my children here.
About four years ago, they wanted me to leave.
And I said no, I'm not going to leave my children here.
Sorry, what happened that they changed their mind, or rather than saying, work it out, or you'll get used to each other, or these are adjustment pains, what happened in your marriage that your family knew about that they said, come home, or at least leave him?
Well, we have another hour, Stefan.
His mother and sister traveled to
And I saw my family there, and they went to my parents' house, and they started saying that I am a whore.
I don't cook or clean or feed my children.
I forced my husband to do a gastric bypass surgery, so he didn't say, I'm hungry, so I have to cook for him.
Now, where did they decide to do all of this?
I found out later.
Of course, my parents, my father called me immediately.
He said,
Why are they saying this about you?
Are you okay?
Is everything okay?
Are the kids okay?
I said, yeah.
I don't know why they said that.
I don't understand.
So I went to my husband's work and I said, why is your mother and sister talking all that bad stuff about me?
And he said, I don't know.
It turns out that he decided to say all of this bad stuff about me, make up all this stuff to his mama.
For some reason, I don't know what the reason was, honest to God.
Until today, I don't know.
I even asked everybody in his immediate family.
I'm sorry, who on earth cares what the reason is?
I don't understand.
What does the reason matter?
Yeah, because I don't know why would they go and say that about me to my own family.
Hang on, sorry, so he got gastric bypass surgery and then he said you made him get it so you wouldn't have to feed him?
Yes.
So is he saying that he wasn't overweight?
Oh, he was overweight.
He was like, oh, 350 pounds.
And I did not force him to do the surgery.
I told him, if you're unable to lose the weight, you know, I saw a lot of people did it.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
When did he hit 350 pounds?
When my daughter was two years old.
350.
And I was then, like I said, I was... Well, hang on.
How much did he weigh when you met him?
No, he was like 180 when I first met him.
Okay, so he doubled his weight?
Yes, yes.
And how did he do that?
I mean, what was he eating?
He was just eating a lot, a lot.
And he didn't exercise, and so he gained it pretty fast.
Um, when he went and saw the doctor and he encouraged him and he did the surgery, which was painless.
Uh, he did not feel any pain.
Of course, it would lead to the shock of the amount of how much you can eat in the beginning.
And so he dropped the weight fast.
Within like a year, he had lost, uh, uh, almost all of the excess weight.
And, uh, he felt like a brand new man.
He felt great afterwards.
I don't know why he would.
No, again, I don't care.
I mean, he's a cruel guy, right?
Yeah, very cruel.
Okay, so he's a mean guy, so when we say, why are mean people mean, it's sort of pointless, right?
They're mean.
I mean, we don't care.
The origin doesn't really matter, because the only person who knows for sure is the person who's mean, and they'll never tell you, because they're mean, right?
Yes.
Okay, so hang on, so two years into the marriage, he doubled his weight.
And then how long did it take for him to get the surgery?
Yeah, so he was ready for about a year, at the maximum wait.
About a year.
Okay.
And he reached to the point where he was unable to tie his own shoes, and that's when I suggested that, you know, it's good to do that surgery, you know, talk to the surgeon, see what he tells you about it.
If it's like minimum risk,
You should go for it, you know?
It's not good to be this heavy.
So you got married to a mean guy who very quickly became morbidly obese and you're like, I've really got to stay.
See, I mean, you have a thing that you're, like, the crying and the victimizing, the sadness and all of that.
Like, how much do you feel like a victim in your life?
How much do you feel like you had no choice and things were done to you and all that?
I don't feel like a victim, but I think just because my mom stayed through all of it, she was in a worse position than I am.
At least I have the freedom to come and go.
I have my own car.
My mom doesn't have that.
So I have myself in a better position than she is.
And why is that?
Sorry, why is yours the worst position?
I'm in America.
She's over there.
I have more freedom to come and go.
If I want to work, I can do whatever.
My mom was in a worse situation.
So, why did I stay?
I'm scared.
But I want the best for my children.
And I don't seem to get the best advice on what to do.
I cannot make that decision.
I don't know what it is.
And I can't seem to get the right advice.
Like, for my family, they said, leave everybody and come home.
I can't leave my children.
What are you talking about?
Like, I did not... That was the wrong advice, too.
And nobody's giving me the right advice to continue on the right path for the sake of my children.
I'm careless about myself, obviously.
I let go.
But I want what I missed from my children.
And I'm failing.
I'm failing.
Hang on, hang on.
You're in your forties, right?
Yes, I am.
Why do you need people to tell you what to do?
You've been an adult for a quarter century.
Why are you just running around like a lost little lamb saying, I need someone to tell me what to do?
If you orient yourself by what's best for your children, right?
You feign a lack of knowledge, but you know, you know what's best for your children.
In your current environment, your daughter, it seems to me, or it sounds like she's going half-crazy, and your son is going half-cruel, right?
Is that an unfair way to characterize it?
Okay, so this current environment, is it good for your children?
Okay, so you don't need anyone to give you advice.
You just don't want to make a decision.
I understand that.
I understand that.
But don't tell me you don't know what to do, or you just don't get good advice, or like, you know.
I just, I asked you two questions and you had the answer right there.
Yeah.
Does your daughter want a life like yours?
No, absolutely not.
I would not wish it on my own.
Well, that means that you are your own worst enemy, because you've wished it on yourself, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
So, if your daughter doesn't want the life you have, then she's going to do the opposite of what you did, right?
If going north is the opposite direction that I want to go, then I'm going to go south.
I'm going to go the opposite of north, right?
Absolutely.
So, if your daughter doesn't want the life that you have,
And the life that you had was founded on physical attractiveness, she's going to do the opposite of physical attractiveness, in my view.
If I overeat and don't exercise and I get fat, and I have a son who wants to not get fat, what's he going to do?
If I overeat and don't exercise, what's my son going to do if he doesn't want to be fat like me?
Are you still with me?
Yeah, we're just... Okay, so... I'm taking it all in.
No, no, I'm asking you a question.
If I get fat because I overeat, and I don't exercise, and my son desperately doesn't want to get fat, what's he gonna do?
He will...
Probably he will take drugs in the future.
What?
No, no, hang on, let me try this again.
Okay, so I get fat because I overeat and I don't exercise, and my son doesn't want to get fat like me, so what's he gonna do?
He will exercise.
Yeah, he will not overeat and he will exercise, so he will do the opposite of me, right?
Yeah.
So, when you were younger, and you were beautiful, and sexy, and all these kinds of things, I'm not saying you aren't now, but, you know, back in your heyday, right?
So, when you were younger, your physical attractiveness was probably your most noticeable aspect, right?
Right.
And it led to multi-decade misery, right?
Yeah.
So, your daughter... My mom was very attractive, too.
I'm sure!
And everyone looks at beautiful people and thinks, man, they've got it made!
Like everyone looks at rich people, or famous people, and say, they've got it made, man!
I wish I were like them!
But beauty is a great danger.
Beauty is a great danger.
Did your husband choose you for your virtues?
Your strength of character, your integrity, your strength.
Did he choose you for those attributes?
Why did he choose you?
Yeah, why did he choose you?
For the looks.
Yeah, for the looks.
Yes.
Being attractive leads to ruin.
And you wonder why your daughter might be pulling her hair out?
You know, it's a little tough to see, isn't it?
And you and your daughter are both harming your attractiveness, your physical attractiveness
Kind of at the same time, right?
And you put on 70 pounds, and you're saying to your daughter, why would you want to be less attractive?
Why would you want to be less attractive?
And I assume your son is modeling himself after your father, with contempt for women.
Scorn at his mother, scorn at his sister, aligning himself with the patriarch.
And, you know, I mean, I assume, all other things being equal, he's going to end up much like his father, isn't he?
100% and I already see the signs.
And that's what's scaring me the most.
No, it's not what's scar- No, that is not what's scaring you the most.
That's just a word people say.
Particularly moms.
How do I know that's not what's scaring you the most?
Because you say, well, I can't even think about leaving or even talk to a lawyer because I'm so terrified of what might happen after.
If you were the most scared that exposure to your son's father is turning him into his father, then you would try and figure that problem out rather than wallowing in your self-pity and your sadness and your fear and being paralyzed.
And I'm not trying to be harsh.
I have genuine, deep sympathy for your situation.
Really?
I really do.
Please be harsh.
I have genuine, deep sympathy for your situation.
But you sound kind of paralyzed to me.
Like you sound like... You just... The anxiety rises up.
And you just get paralyzed, right?
And then you get paralyzed, you go limp, you go rubber bones, and then you say, well, people have to tell me what to do, and nobody's telling me what to do, and I'm afraid of this, and I'm afraid of that, and I can't talk to this expert, and I can't, like... So then you end up paralyzed.
But when was the last time?
That you genuinely felt loved for who you are.
You felt treasured.
Respected.
Adored.
Desired.
I've never had that before.
Right.
I mean, people often feed their bodies because their hearts are starving.
If you and your daughter observed, children soak up everything in their environment.
Everything.
You know, we have lives, we have taxes, we have friends, we have plans, but our children just have us, so they notice and see everything.
They're like obsessive archaeologists or anthropologists simply studying their parents.
And your daughter, like all same-sex children, your daughter looks at you and says, do I want what she has?
Do I want what my mother has?
Now, if I don't want what my mother has, I can't be like my mother.
And if I really, really, really don't want what my mother has, I have to be the opposite of my mother.
Again, I don't know.
I don't know.
It's just a possibility.
I mean, it seems to fit the facts, but that doesn't mean that that's certainty.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
I mean, she may say to herself, pulling my hair out is less pain than
What not pulling my hair out is, which is my mother's life.
Yeah.
And now I see why she said to the therapist that.
Like, first time I pulled my dad was, went to my room and I was happy, I couldn't be happy.
It's the masking of me pretending to be happy, but I'm not.
Now I see it.
Right.
Now I see it.
Yeah, I mean, this is like where my sympathy is enormous, right?
So, I mean, I've had, you know, countless phone calls or calls like this.
And I think of, it's probably close to, if not the top three or five, of all the people I talked to, you were the saddest right at the beginning.
The most unhappy right at the beginning.
And for that, I have massive,
Massive sympathy.
And listen, of course, growing up in the Middle East, as a woman, as a girl, you're not exactly trained to have will and power in your life, right?
And certainly your mother didn't model any of that.
So helpless, pushed around by fates, men, law.
We are trained to be subservient, you know.
The society against Christians, as well, is very harsh.
If you're attracted on top of it, going to school is a risk every day.
I was groped, harassed, you name it, Stefan.
Right, right.
It was horrible, so getting out of that country was, you know, a life-saving technique.
It was a very, very harsh society.
Yes, that I understand.
But there's leaving the country and then there's leaving the mindset.
To accept that you have some power, strength and authority.
It's tough when you've been raised in this kind of harassed and brutalized and groped and aggressed against kind of way, right?
As you say, as an attractive Christian girl and woman in the Middle East, that's not an easy life at all.
Absolutely.
And that's why I can understand, like, yeah, going back would be awful.
And divorce on top of that?
Oh my God!
My nickname would be The Whore.
Right.
In that country.
Right.
But you in America now!
And that means you have allies.
That means you have people you can talk to who will help.
And I don't know what that help means.
Again, I'm no lawyer or therapist or psychologist or psychiatrist or anything like that.
I don't know what that help means.
But there are people
Who will help you.
Unlike when you were growing up.
Unlike your family.
Who, as you say, said, stay with him.
It'll be fine.
And then when their reputations took a blow, leave him and your kids.
Like, yeah, I get that.
That's terrible advice on both sides, right?
But you are going to need to try and find some way, in my humble opinion, you are going to need to try and find some way
To become a person of strength that your children can admire.
Not someone who feels this, you know, this much pushed around and helpless and so on.
And again, I sympathize with all those feelings.
I really, really, really do.
But I know it goes against what you were raised with and so on, but I think it's probably quite important for you to try and find some way to be a leader in your family.
I mean, it doesn't sound like your husband's doing it.
In fact, he's kind of leading everyone in the wrong direction, sounds like.
But you're going to need to find some way to become strong.
I'm honestly smiling right now.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome, you're welcome.
Thank you.
And I, listen, I can't, I mean, I had my own rough background, whatever, whatever, but I can't imagine what it was like for you.
I can vaguely picture it, but obviously the genuine experience of being that preyed upon as a girl and as a young woman, I can't, I can't imagine.
So, with all huge humility, you know, I sort of bow my head in your direction and say that the burden that you had to carry is more than I can genuinely imagine, and I have sympathy for what I really can't deeply understand in the way that you've experienced it.
So, I just want, in all humility, I want to sort of provide that perspective as well, because I don't want you to feel like
I try to stay, you know, strong.
I'm headed, you know, and step fast, but I'm falling apart.
I have to be the leader again, and I'm willing to, I'm ready to take that step, and I see it clearly now, because if I don't, I'm going to lose everything, and I don't want to lose my children.
The future for me is, that's like, I want to know if I go, I pass away, that both my kids are able to sustain themselves and live a good life.
They're making the right decisions.
And I need to do it right now because it's too late.
And that's why I reached out to you.
I wanted to reach out for so long, Stefan.
Well, I think, I mean, it sounds wise insofar as the teenage years of the last stand of parenting, like that's, that's where you, you get your last shot, so to speak.
And so it sounds wise to get involved.
In that way, but I think definitely getting the facts about what your options are is probably quite important.
Again, I don't know what you should do, right?
Even if I did, I wouldn't tell you because you have to make these decisions yourself, but I don't know what you should do, but I do know that gathering information about your possibilities, your options, is really, really important.
Otherwise, you're just going to make up scare stories and paralyze yourself further.
No, I absolutely know what I need to do now, Stephane.
One hundred percent.
Alright.
How's the conversation been for you as a whole?
I want to obviously make sure of that because it's been quite intense in a way.
I've learned so much from you throughout the years and the following years.
I've been happy almost and I have a peaceful parenting and all of that and I modelled a lot of that from you.
Especially the conversations with the kids and make them understand instead of just blue borders.
It helped a lot.
Also, this phone call is what I was praying for for the past couple of months.
Thank you for getting back to me fast.
I was really anxious.
It sounded kind of urgent.
So, yes, I moved some things around, yeah, yeah.
It felt like I'm running out of time, man.
And I knew you were the only one who could help me.
Well, I appreciate that.
No pressure, no pressure, but it's you or nothing, Steph!
You or nothing!
Okay.
You've always impressed me, you know, with your perspective on things.
I love to listen to the calls of other people, and the points you shine a light on always surprise me, like, oh my god, I've never even thought of that.
So, I know you're going to have a unique perspective on the whole situation, and I appreciate your time and everything.
Thank you so much for being here.
You're very welcome.
Will you keep me posted about how things are going as a whole?
I will, I promise.
All right, listen, sister, big hug, big virtual hug, big hug, and, you know, your strength in this cause should not be underestimated, and I really do appreciate, I mean, the trust that you put in my little mind to try and provide a few shreds of wisdom, I'm really humbled by, and I'm glad it sounds like it's been helpful, and I absolutely wish you the best, but yeah, big hug from me up here.
Thank you, and I'm fine about all the emotions.
No, no.
Emotions are fine.
We welcome the emotions here.
We are down with the feels.
All right.
Well, listen, keep me posted.
And again, thanks again for a great call.
And I absolutely wish you and your children the very, very best.
All right.
Take care.
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