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Nov. 4, 2023 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
27:34
AM I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER?
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All right. Sorry about this to the listener.
This is a question that slipped through the cracks.
My apologies. Let's see if we can get it answered.
This is going to be really important for everyone.
So, you know, please, please listen up.
Pay attention. Right, so when COVID hit, the government response began a gradual process of degradation of our business.
After the three months shut down and a year of keeping it afloat, I realized that my income had been knocked back down to what I was earning five to six years prior, and with my increased expenses, the business had become non-profitable.
Luckily, I was able to sell the business and recoup some of my losses.
It was around this time my wife and I decided to leave the politically aggressive progressive big city and move our family to my hometown to live with my Parents, until we could welcome our third child to the world, congratulations by the way, and I could figure out a way to get our lives back on track.
A few weeks before we made the move, my brother attempted suicide for the second time in his life.
I will also mention that he was an ADHD kid and was heavily medicated for several years as a young child.
As the days and weeks went by following his second attempt, I realized through discussions with him and my father that the way my parents handled the crisis was nothing short of terrible.
So much so that my father finally recounted exactly what happened and how he handled it.
That when my father did this, the only thought that went through my mind was, what the F is wrong with you?
In that moment, I realized I had to get my brother as far away from them as possible.
To make it even more obvious that I had to do so, he was living in a terrible neighborhood, break-ins and murderers and drug addicts, and working a terrible job in the low-rent factory, which was destroying his health.
He was just over 200 pounds at his heaviest and essentially never sleeping, I should also mention that my parents chose that job for him, as well as the house he was living in, and never seriously considered helping him change either of them to improve his life.
Soon after, I suggested to my brother that I could arrange the sale of his house, move across the country, and he could live with us and take a year off work, and not have to worry about paying bills, to which he enthusiastically said yes.
Thanks to some fellow FDR friends, I found a place in a great neighborhood in a small town, and I began the process of setting up our lives across the country and coordinating the sale of his house to make it all happen.
Since being here, I've helped him lose 50 pounds, and my wife and I have given him advice on where to work, And his new job is going well.
We've also had many conversations about our relationships with our parents, but this is increasingly challenging to do with three little kids who need us.
He is helpful with our kids and often plays with them enthusiastically, as well as contributes to cooking and cleaning and buying groceries.
But now that we are living together, I'm observing what his behavioral issues are, since I could never rely on my parents to tell me the truth about his struggles, given that they are the ones who caused all of this.
He is addicted to screens, watching and talking about silly CGI movies, and has almost weekly bouts of passive-aggressive behavior, as well as a complaining-slash-victim mindset.
All things I want to keep miles away from my kids for obvious reasons.
The added challenge is that because he was physically and verbally abused by my parents as a child, and verbally abused as an adult, and was quote forced or quote pushed through every level of school by my mother, and had everything done for him, he is now a feminized Adult.
Now Bolt, meaning he can't get through the day without lots of entertainment and small talk chit-chat, takes almost no initiative on his own, gives up easily, and struggles to take responsibility for his choices.
He's made some progress since we've been here, taking responsibility for certain important financial choices, and I do continue to see slow gradual process.
We've begun to build a cabin in our backyard so he can have his own personal space and he's contributing to the work, albeit with quite a bit of negative self-talk.
And our goal as a family is to eventually move him into his house, either somewhere in our neighborhood or two separate houses on an acreage.
I feel like we've taken care of the easy part, which is getting him out of a bad situation and getting his health back on track.
But the more challenging aspects of this are getting him to realize that in order for him to continue to heal, his abusers have to suffer and that if he continues to use their language, he has not escaped anything.
Any help or direction you can provide in navigating this challenging time would be greatly appreciated.
Well, that's, I mean, it's a terrible story, and I have, of course, massive sympathy for everyone involved, except, you know, perhaps the parents.
But, yeah, this is, okay, this is, you know, nobody's going to like me after this, but that's okay.
I mean, the purpose is to tell the truth as bluntly and as directly and as usefully, hopefully, as I can.
Do it and you can see if there's value in what it is that I have to say.
Now, you don't mention how old your brother is, but given that you have three kids and you've had a business, I assume your brother is in his 30s or his 40s, and there's a certain, like, it's funny, you know, because I'm a nice guy, I want the best for everyone, but I also do have a very sort of It's an absolutist streak.
And it's funny that you talk about your brother being feminized when you're trying to mother him.
You're also talking about how your brother, let me just get this point, so you're saying your brother is a feminized adult because he was forced to push through every level of school by my mother and had everything done for him.
Right. So you realize you're doing that, right?
You're doing everything for him.
You're taking over his life.
You're trying to displace his consciousness in a way with yours.
So, in my life, I will let you on on a big, great, deep secret about life.
And you have to be ruthless about this.
Like, no effing around.
You have to be ruthless about this.
Because life is short, and you owe your children.
You owe your children.
You divide people into three categories.
This is super important.
You must divide people into three categories.
Why? Because there are three categories of people.
So, from best to worst, the first category is people who will learn through reason.
They don't have to wait for things to get terrible.
They don't have to wait to hit rock bottom.
They learn through reason.
These people are...
The most helpful in your life.
They learn through reason.
And, of course, I think this audience obviously is part of their category.
The people who learn by reason.
That's number one. Number two, the people who learn by experience.
They won't listen to reason, but when their experience gets bad enough, they will change.
So you think of the addict, right?
If somebody is drinking too much and you say, dude, what's going on?
You're drinking too much. He's like, you know what?
You're right. I mean, I just counted up how much I drank last night.
I looked it up, man. I'm heading down a dangerous path.
Thank you so much, Shirley. And then you talk about it and they reform their behavior because you are talking about it.
And this is all that's available to adults.
Now, the other kind of alcoholic has to lose his wife, his job, his house, his savings.
He hits rock bottom, and then hopefully he changes and bounces, though with unbelievable scar tissue.
So people who listen to reason, people who learn by experience, and then there's the third category, people who don't learn.
People who don't learn.
People who don't learn.
Now, you must, you must, you must be strict about this.
And in particular, I'm emphasizing, I mean, I think this is important no matter what, but in particular, I'm emphasizing this because you are a parent to three wonderful, innocent, lovely, young children.
And if I were to make a guess, I would say that your brother, if he's in his 30s, I'm just going to say, it sounds like he's in his late 30s, So if he's in his late 30s, and it doesn't matter if he's younger or older in particular, if he's in his late 30s and he was 50 pounds overweight, he was living in a terrible neighborhood, he was in contact with constant abusers, and he had a terrible job that was wrecking his health,
then he had not listened to reason, because I'm sure you'd reasoned with him.
He didn't listen to reason. And he wasn't learning from experience.
So, when we try to help people, we must always, always, always think of the opportunity costs.
The opportunity to help is a rare thing.
To help people is a rare thing, and every person you help is everyone else you're not helping.
So every minute, every dollar, every scrap of thought that you put into your brother is subtracted from everyone else.
You see, it's really, really important.
The missing, the opportunity cost, the hidden, that's what's important.
I can't even imagine how many thousands of hours and thousands or tens of thousands of dollars you've poured into your brother.
And he's in his late thirties.
So he's 35 years past near permanent personality formation.
It's not whether you help your brother.
This is what you're focusing on.
I got to help my brother. I want to help my brother.
My brother's doing badly.
It's that you're not spending quality time with your wife, your friends, most importantly, your children, your children.
Now you have taken on a parental role with your brother.
You have taken on a parental role with your brother.
I'm going to give you A possibility that needs to be considered.
I'm going to give you a possibility that needs to be considered.
That you are being manipulated.
You are being manipulated.
That your brother... See, here's the thing with family, man.
Here's the thing with family.
They know you so well.
In fact, in many ways, your family of origin, they know you better than you know yourself because they see you from the outside.
Now, you know, what is love?
Love is handing over power over you to other people.
Love is handing over power over you.
Love is vulnerability. Love is telling people your deepest, darkest secrets.
Love is telling people your history.
Love is saying to everyone, here's where my buttons are.
Here's where my levers are.
Handle me with care, as that old song goes.
Love is surrendering to potential manipulation.
You can't love someone without surrendering to potential manipulation.
This is exactly why the people you love better be good people.
They better be really good people because you're giving them power over you.
It's deeper than giving someone your life savings.
It's deeper and more powerful than giving someone your life savings.
Would you give your brother your life savings?
Would you hand over your life savings and saying, listen, can you just hang on to this and take care of it for me for a year?
Come on, that's a great test, isn't it?
That's a great test. Would you Give your life savings to your brother, or your wife, or your mother, or your friend.
Because you understand, I mean, legally, you're giving your life savings to your wife.
When you get married, you're giving her control over your life savings, because she can divorce you and take your stuff.
So, if I look at the process, your brother, by being in a terrible situation and telling you about the terrible situation, he knows you and he knows what you will do.
He knows what you will do.
What you will do is you will rescue him.
Now, why do you rescue him?
I understand. Look, it's agonizing to look at a family member and realize how badly they're doing.
But you are acting for him.
You have rescued him.
You have transferred tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of time and mental energy and thought processes and conversation.
And every time you have a conversation about your brother with your wife, you're not having a conversation with your wife about your life.
You're not connecting with your wife.
You're talking about your brother.
So when I look at this, You say he's a feminized adult.
Let's just say he's manipulative.
Manipulative is when you gain resources by making other people feel bad.
Or offering to make them feel good.
Now, your brother has parlayed his terrible life into you taking over his existence.
You becoming the new person.
Parent. But you're not his parent.
You say, ah, well, but without my energies, without my resources, without my time, without my money, he's just going to have a terrible life.
Well, maybe.
But the worse his life became, the more likely you were to give him tens of thousands of dollars worth of time, effort, and money.
And the worse his life became, the more likely you were to swoop in and rescue him.
Be aware that victimhood is one of the most profitable occupations known to man and devil.
Victimhood is one of the most profitable occupations known to man and devil.
And you view him as a victim.
Come on. You view him as a victim.
What do you say? What do you say?
He was an ADHD kid and was heavily medicated for several years as a young child.
Absolute victim. I'm 150% with you.
150% with you.
But then you say, well, the way my parents handled the crisis was nothing short of terrible.
And you don't give any details, but I think we can assume what's going on.
You say, the way that my parents handled the crisis was terrible.
Well, what about the way your brother is handling his life?
I mean, why should somebody in their late 30s be reliant upon their parents, right?
And you said, what the F is wrong with you with regards to your parents handling your brother's suicide attempt?
It was that moment I realized I had to get my brother as far away from them as possible.
You say, oh, my parents chose that job for him.
No, they didn't. He's an adult.
He's an adult. You say, oh, my parents chose that job for him as well as the house he was living in and never seriously considered helping him change either of them to improve his life.
So you said, oh, I can arrange a sale of your house.
I can move you across the country.
You can live with us and take a year off work, not have to worry about paying bills, to which he enthusiastically said yes.
So, you are saying that if somebody has a bad life, taking them away from all responsibilities is just a way to make everything better, to treat them as a child.
So, you helped them lose weight, Giving him advice where to work, new jobs going well, and he's got this passive-aggressive stuff.
And you say, look at this, the added challenge is that because he was physically and verbally abused by my parents as a child, and verbally abused as an adult, and was, quote, forced or, quote, pushed through every level of school by my mother, he had everything done for him.
Now he's a femoralized adult.
He can't get through the day without lots of entertainment and small talk chit-chat.
Takes almost no initiative on his own, gives up easily, and struggles to take responsibility for his choices.
Gee, really? Really?
You're parenting him.
You're giving him a responsibility-free life.
And you say, gosh, he's having trouble taking care of his responsibilities.
And you say, because he was physically and verbally abused and pushed through every level of school by my mother and had everything done for him, he's now a feminized adult.
So you view him as inert.
You view him as someone who's acted upon, and you give him excuses.
Excuse after excuse after excuse.
Well, he was an ADHD kid.
Well, he was medicated.
Well, my parents chose this job for him.
Well, they chose where he lived.
Well, he can't do this.
Well, he can't do that. Well, because he was verbally abused, he's like this.
And because he was pushed through school, he's like that.
And it's like... No.
I mean, maybe he was a drug addict and maybe he fried his brain or something like that.
Maybe he drank, maybe he has messed up his head in some way.
And if, I mean, if that's the case, right?
If he's drunk a lot or done drugs or whatever, then, you know, he may have fried his brain.
In which case, you can't fix it.
Like, that's like going to some homeless guy who's grabbing at imaginary squirrels in his brain and saying, well, it's okay, I'll give you a place to live and I'll fix everything up.
It's like, well, you can't because the brain is broken.
I mean, people who fry their brains, to me, I'm no doctor, obviously this is my particular opinion, but people who fry their brains are like people who've lost an arm.
You can't just say, well, I'll give you a place to live and your arm will regrow.
That's not the way it works. So, you say he's addicted to screens, watching and talking about silly CGI movies, almost weekly bouts of passive-aggressive behavior as well as a complaining victim mindset, all things I want to keep miles away from my kids for obvious reasons.
Because that's who you make your decisions on, right?
Your brother's suffering, you have taken responsibility for by making him a victim.
Was he a victim? Yes, absolutely.
Is he a victim in his late 30s?
Nope. No, he's not.
And he's getting away with being irresponsible because irresponsibility got him a year off work and a free house.
Now, I know he's working and all of that.
But his irresponsibility caused you to suffer.
And then you stepped in to, are you trying to help him?
Or are you working to alleviate your own guilt and suffering?
You know, it's tough when you do better than a family member.
It's tough. And you're doing a lot better than your family member.
You're doing a lot better than your brother.
And that is tough. And I sympathize.
I really do. What's the solution?
Well, is he someone who listens to reason?
Nope. Is he someone who listens to experience?
Nope. I mean, he was in his late 30s and living in a terrible neighborhood and overweight and still under the thumb of your parents and so on, right?
So, is he someone Who learns it all?
Well, of course you're giving him money and you're building him a house and you put him up and you take care of him and you give him companionship and so on.
And so he knows that the gravy train ends if he behaves too badly.
So he's not going to behave too badly.
But what's best for your kids?
I mean, it's so simple.
You just boil it down to one thing and one thing only.
What's best for your kids? What's best for your kids?
Do your kids benefit?
And you say, oh, well, he plays with the kids.
Okay, I'm sure he does because he's half an infant himself, right?
So I'm sure he can be goofy and play with the kids and do silly things.
And there's nothing wrong with being goofy and playing with your kids and doing silly things, but you also need to model adult responsibilities and so on.
So, yeah, he helps with the kids, for sure.
And I'm sure that they like that goofy, funny side, and that's all very nice.
But what's the message?
What's the message? Victimhood gets rewarded.
Victimhood gets rewarded.
Victimhood gets rewarded.
And what you're also saying is that, I mean, if this guy was just some guy you met at a party or you, I don't know, met around town or it was a friend of a friend, you wouldn't be doing all this for him.
You'd say, ah, but it's family.
Okay, well, I understand that.
Okay. So you're saying to your kids that you can behave terribly if you're family and you'll get rewarded.
You'll get rewarded. Family is a license for bad behavior.
Say, oh no, but my brother's a victim.
Well, if he is a victim, let's say he's a genuine victim.
So let's say that something happened completely outside of his control that fried his sense of identity and responsibility.
Let's just say that. It was nothing to do with him.
He had a head injury, accident, and he just can't get his life together.
He's a real victim.
Then you can't save him any more than you can regrow someone's arm when he's lost his arm.
So, if you say he's a real victim, then he might need professional help, he might need some sort of involvement to give him some sort of comfort, but you can't fix him.
If he's genuinely a victim, right?
Now, if he's not genuinely a victim, then he's getting a lot of resources by being the victim.
Why does he have to grow up?
Why does he have to grow up?
I mean, his parents give him resources.
You give him resources.
You're there for him. And why?
Because he's your brother. Okay, but then that's fine.
Listen, I understand that. Then you're saying to your children that family matters more than virtue.
And I understand that's basic tribalism, and I know that that's a very strong component of human life.
You're saying family matters more than virtue.
In other words, you're saying family is the ultimate substitute for immorality, for a lack of accountability, for irresponsibility, for immaturity.
You can be a fool.
You can be immature.
You can be irresponsible. You can be inert.
You can act in ways that are negative or destructive to self and other, and family will ride in to rescue you, that you don't have to be responsible.
You just have to be related.
You don't have to be responsible, you just have to be related.
And your children are absorbing this lesson.
Now, your children are going to have a wide scattering of personality traits.
Some of them are going to be more independent.
Some of them are going to be more dependent.
Some of them are going to be more direct.
Some of them are going to be more manipulative.
That's just the way the dice rolls with personality.
And you are not your brother's keeper.
You are not your brother's parent.
You can't parent him because he's in his late 30s.
You can't parent him. But what you can do is you can teach your children how incredibly powerful victimhood and manipulation is in the gathering and acquisition of resources.
That's what you're creating.
Honestly, I believe this deeply.
You're creating a great temptation for your children.
And that temptation is, wow!
So if you're responsible and productive, you have to provide resources.
To the immature, the unproductive, the petty, the manipulative, and the victims.
You understand? That you're teaching your children that there's two ways to get resources.
You can work hard, be responsible, be productive, or you can play the victim, and you can be irresponsible, and you can suffer, and then other people will ride in to rescue you from that and give you a free house, free land, free groceries, free money, free everything.
Oof. Now, when you look at your kids, you say the little kids, your third's coming, so they're all little kids.
Okay, so from the perspective of your children, which life seems better?
Which life seems better?
A life where you kind of get to hang around and play and watch videos and chat about fun stuff and giggle and laugh and have everyone else take care of you, from a child's perspective, is your life better or is your brother's life better?
Your life of worry and concern and guilt and obligation and hard work and concern and responsibility, does that look fun?
Or does it look fun to giggle over CGI movies, watch endless videos, laze around and get free stuff?
You say, ah, well, but if I don't take care of my brother, what's going to happen to him?
That's not the question. It's not about you.
Oh, my God. I'm so sorry because I feel like I keep having this conversation because I do.
It's not about you. It's about what's best for your kids.
It's about what's best.
You say, ah, yes, no, well, I'm modeling compassion for my children.
I'm modeling taking care of people for my children.
Yes, but at their expense.
Everything you provide to your brother is subtracted from your family.
Every conversation, every thought, and you know, you're with your kids and you're thinking about your brother and you're subtracting from them.
Everything that subtracts from your children is a theft to your integrity.
Your brother is not a victim.
Or if he is, he's beyond your power to help.
You say, oh, well, I can make him more comfortable.
Yes, you can. Absolutely, you can make him more comfortable.
And he can spend, and maybe he will, spend the next 50 years sitting in a little house in your backyard watching Marvel movies on his tablet.
I mean, come on. He's not going to get married.
He's never going to take on any responsibility.
He's never going to have any savings.
He's just going to hang around you taking stuff for the next 50 years.
And that's a great temptation for your children to follow down that path.
What's best for your children?
When does charity end?
Well, my charity will end when he becomes more responsible.
It's like, well, why would he become more responsible?
Clearly he's a reactive person.
You say he doesn't take any initiative.
So he just responds to environment.
He just responds to stimuli.
That's it. That's it.
So he's never leaving.
He's always going to continue to take.
And he's going to get more peevish as the years go by because he's going to get this great feeling that his life is gone, that he didn't achieve anything.
He's living in a state of perpetual adolescence and not really working to change it.
Is he going to therapy?
Is he doing self-help books?
Is he recording his dreams?
Is he trying to figure out his unconscious?
Is he trying to take... No, he's not doing any of that stuff.
He's watching silly movies and complaining about the free house he might be asked to help build a little.
And that's just going to teach your kids...
That really, the best way...
And kids are efficiency experts, right?
You have to work, and all your brother has to do is be sad and complain.
You have a great life, and that means you have to pay for the people who make bad decisions.
From a resource acquisition standpoint...
Remember, kids start amoral.
From a resource acquisition standpoint, you're the sucker, and he's the winner.
He has the power, and you pay.
And are you doing it to genuinely help your brother?
I don't know how to genuinely help your brother.
I would have no idea.
I mean, if he wants to call into the show, he's welcome.
I don't know how to help you, brother.
I don't believe that just giving him stuff and taking away responsibilities and doing things for him, I don't think that helps.
So I don't know how to help you, brother.
You believe that you do, and you have to be really strict with yourself when you say, am I helping this person because I know how to help him and make him better?
You understand, nobody knows how to help people like this in particular.
I mean, maybe some therapy, but they have to want to do the therapy in the first place.
Nobody knows how to train people out of a multi-decade habit of victimhood and complaining.
And passivity, nobody knows how to do that.
It has to come from within. Are you trying to help your brother Because you know how to help him and you're the one person in the whole world who knows how to change people's lives from the outside when they don't have any motive and you're paying them to not change their lives in many ways, certainly their attitude.
Are you helping your brother because you genuinely want to help your brother and you know how to do it and you know how to fix him and you're the genius who's figured this out?
Or are you helping your brother Because you feel bad when he's sad.
Now, if you're giving tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of time to your brother because you feel bad because he's sad, you're simply training your children.
Then feeling sad gets you gold.
Oof. What's best for them?
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