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Sept. 20, 2023 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:46:59

5263 STOP BEING MANIPULATED!

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	So finished another thing a little early.
	How's the Peaceful Parenting book coming?
	It is coming.
	The second rough draft is complete.
	I've taken a couple of days off so that it, you know, when you read something repetitively, like you know what happens, right?
	You read something repetitively and it all just makes sense because you've read it so many times.
	So
	I want to not have that happen, so what I'm going to do is denormalize it, and that means let it lie fallow for a couple of days, and then try and read it with a fresh eye, so that it makes sense.
	So Peaceful Parenting book is coming along.
	Thank you again for all of your support.
	freedomain.com slash donate to help out with that show.
	Oh no, I have a doctor's appointment.
	Well, let's see here.
	I was listening to an old episode of FDR and you mentioned that there was going to be an FDR CD.
	Was that a joke or a real thing?
	We want anarchy!
	Where's the other Brian Kaplan episode?
	Yeah, I did two with him, right?
	The Myth of the Rational Voter guy.
	And I don't think we ever did a CD.
	I know we didn't, but we did do some musical stuff.
	And I don't know.
	Brian Kaplan.
	FDRpodcast.com.
	Just do a search for it there.
	And it'll probably show up if it got published and if it didn't get pulled.
	Pulled!
	Yanked!
	The whole big deal.
	We demand a Stefan Molyneux Christmas album!
	Well, I already have the cover photo with me only wearing a pair of elf bells.
	So, if you've got the cover, I guess the rest of it isn't too hard to get.
	But that's very kind, John.
	Maybe I will try that.
	Well done, Seth, for the progress of the Peaceful Parenting book.
	Well, thank you very much.
	Thank you again for funding the show so that I can fund Jared, because his salacious habits are all very expensive, but he's well worth it.
	So, yeah, it's coming along.
	I just need to defang it a little.
	Yes, I'm afraid Chicken Steph is in the house.
	I need to defang the book a little because right now it will definitely provoke a lynch mob.
	That is without a doubt.
	I would not be able to cross the street without bodyguards.
	So right now I have poured all the passion that I possess, and I possess no small degree of passion, into the book.
	But I still need to live in this universe, so we're going to have to file down those vampire teeth of childhood outrage just a smidge, so that I can still walk the planet.
	Seems kind of important.
	Punchy books are fine.
	Well, thanks.
	I appreciate you telling me that punchy books are fine behind your anonymous account.
	It's very funny.
	Oh, that's funny.
	That's funny.
	Thanks for all you do.
	Recently got engaged!
	Thanks to your guidance.
	To truth and virtue, bro!
	Or bro-ess.
	That is fantastic.
	Congratulations.
	How wonderful.
	I'm thrilled, excited, and, as usual, a little turned on.
	Hey, that's just what you guys do to me.
	I can't lie.
	I can't lie.
	Congratulations.
	Hey, Steph!
	Great to be here, and hope you're well.
	Listened to an interview with Brett.
	Cooper, who was homeschooled, and the astonished bemusement of the hosts at how happy her childhood was and how much she excelled in learning, was something to behold.
	They couldn't grasp that she actually enjoyed it.
	Look forward to the stream.
	You know...
	You can't?
	Oh, you did the call-in.
	Sorry, the guy who called in show yesterday?
	I had a weird thing.
	For some reason, the recorder just went completely haywire, and I got a bunch of static, so I'll try and fix that.
	But yes, I'm glad that you are feeling more emotional.
	I was talking to a guy yesterday who had a father who was full of Florida aggressive emotion, and because his father was so hyper-emotional, he kind of retreated into not feeling, and that is, of course, a big problem for people.
	Hit me with a why if you're interested in the difference between having a feeling and using a feeling.
	Are you interested in the difference between having feelings and using feelings?
	Because you may have people in your life who don't have feelings, they use feelings.
	Like hostages.
	Like missiles.
	Yes?
	Well, as your ever-flexible, willing philosophy slave, I will at least resurrect a speech I gave the fine listener from last night.
	Sorry, all the optometrists.
	I'm not actually rubbing my eyeballs, I'm just rubbing my eye sockets.
	Apparently there's a huge difference.
	Alright.
	So hit me with a why if you, as a child, fake cried ever to get what you want.
	I am YMCA.
	I am definitely that way inclined.
	I fake cried to get what I wanted from time to time.
	No?
	Really?
	Oh, come on.
	Did you?
	Okay.
	Did you fake emotion as a child to get what you wanted?
	Did you ever fake?
	I'm not saying you actually cried, but you know, you fake cried.
	To get what you want, or to get out of trouble, or whatever, right?
	Have you ever had that?
	Did that as a kid?
	Did you ever, um...
	Fake emotion as a kid to try and get something positive or avoid something negative.
	Now, if you tell me no, sorry, you're just lying.
	Like, it wouldn't have worked for me?
	Well, that means you tried it and found that it didn't work, right?
	So, without a doubt, everyone and their dog has used fake emotions as a kid to try and get what you want.
	And still, it sometimes works as an adult.
	Everybody.
	And it's a natural strategy.
	Deception is a natural strategy.
	It's a survival strategy for people.
	Fake being happy, qualify?
	Yeah, that's a fake emotion.
	That's a fake emotion.
	Did you ever have to fake that you wanted to kiss your aunt with the hairy wart coming out of her chin?
	If I ever felt down, I felt I had to exaggerate my emotions to get noticed.
	Yeah?
	When I was, I guess, 11 or 12, I swam like a fish.
	I was on the swim team.
	I was on the water polo team.
	And Fridays and Sundays, I would go to the pool in the high school.
	And I used to sometimes picture that there was a guy there who was recruiting for his new underwater city, Atlantis 2, and was looking for really good swimmers.
	I'd just make up these tests to see if I could do my double flip dives and stuff like that.
	And be like, wow, this guy's really good.
	He'd be excellent in Atlantis 2.
	Yes, says someone.
	I even fake cried because I didn't want to hurt the feelings of my spanker because it didn't bother or hurt me.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I had plenty of family gatherings.
	I would pretend to be happier than I was.
	Let's see here.
	I've certainly faked the happy.
	I did that when I had to pretend being okay when I was not.
	I had a great-grandmother with a hairy wart I had to kiss.
	Yeah, it's a little alarming, right?
	Let's see here.
	That was a Bill and Ted purgatory.
	So I'm not sure what that refers to, but I'll fake the happy.
	If you're a woman, have you ever faked the O?
	Ever faked the O?
	I'll have a full Meg Ryan, the whole thing.
	Or if a guy, you just grab a toothpaste tube and... I'm just kidding.
	How do men fake orgasms?
	Oh, we don't.
	You fake sick for attention?
	I'm not well.
	There's a concert on and I can't come to it.
	Oh, Bill and Ted movie?
	He had a grandmother he didn't want to kiss.
	So, yeah, I mean, we fake stuff in life, and that's natural.
	It's, you know, it's not a bad skill to have, right?
	It's not a bad skill to have.
	You fake enthusiasm at work all the time, yeah?
	It's not a bad skill to have.
	At all.
	So, I've certainly found it helpful in my adult life to be able to
	Fake things at will.
	It is just important, and again, none of my personal relationships and so on, but you know, just in general, moving through the world.
	I've had to fake things.
	And no problem with it, it's natural.
	I really put the onus on the other people who are kind of putting me in a corner that way.
	So to have emotions versus to use emotions.
	Hit me with a why if you've ever had
	Someone who fakes self-pity, or fakes helplessness, or fakes failure, or fakes self-attack in order to get what they want.
	You ever had someone like that in your life?
	Just out of curiosity?
	Yes!
	Not me this time, but yes.
	Yes, yes on the helplessness, thousand percent, yes.
	Former fiancé?
	I'm glad that's in the former category.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So how do you know the difference between somebody who's using an emotion and somebody who's having an emotion?
	How do you know the difference?
	If you can't scan this difference, you're fish on a hook.
	It's fish on a hook time.
	It's being yeeted all over the universe to the whims of manipulative and aggressive people.
	So how do you know
	How do you know that somebody is faking an emotion to get what they want?
	They're using an emotion, they're not having an emotion.
	Do you guys know the tips and tricks to not be manipulated?
	It's really, really important to know this stuff.
	I always aim to provide value.
	Yeah.
	All right, so give me some of the tips that you know about
	How to tell someone.
	My daughter is, like, incredible.
	When she's at the playground and she hears a cry, she's like, oh, that kid's in trouble, and she'll go and help.
	Or like, ah, that kid's totally faking it.
	She, like, has this uncanny ear.
	It's almost eerie.
	She has this uncanny ear for the nuance of emotions.
	Empathy, they listen and not wait and dismiss your feelings.
	No, I'm talking about other people's feelings, not yours.
	Notice if they have an on and off switch.
	Yes, yes, of course, they can turn it off quickly.
	So the kid who's like, ah, ah, I didn't get a candy bar, ah, ah, and then you give him the candy bar, like, ah, ah, mm, candy, right?
	So it changes like that.
	I don't know.
	Somebody's, like, red-veined, forehead bulge vein yelling at you, and then the phone rings, and they're like, Hi!
	One personality switches out for the other personality, and lo and behold, right?
	You ever have that situation?
	It's kind of eerie, isn't it?
	Where you just, ah, right?
	So, yeah, that's somebody using an emotion.
	The emotion is not organic.
	The emotion has a purpose, and when that purpose is satisfied, the emotion ends.
	The emotion has a purpose.
	When that purpose is satisfied, the emotion ends.
	Now, genuine emotions do not have an external purpose.
	They're not goal-oriented.
	They're not goal-seeking.
	They don't manifest in order to facilitate will-achievement of an objective.
	What are genuine emotions?
	What are they for, and how do I, of all people, get to differentiate them from fake emotions, right?
	So, real emotions.
	What are they for, and how do you differentiate them?
	I'm waiting!
	Die faster!
	Yeah, like I'm one to talk.
	No, I got a message elsewhere.
	Fine.
	Alright.
	You're not sure?
	Okay.
	Mr. Cheddar.
	Mr. Lactose Intolerant.
	That's fine.
	That's fine.
	I can tell you.
	It's amazing.
	Steph comes on and all of a sudden the family needs to interrupt.
	Tell them you're doing philosophy, and interrupting philosophy is a sin worthy of Hades itself.
	Don't pay the ferryman!
	Alright.
	So, okay, so what are genuine emotions for?
	Genuine emotions are to draw your attention to positive or negative things in your environment that are not obvious.
	Deep emotions, or emotions as a whole, are there to draw your attention to things in your environment that are positive or negative that are not obvious.
	So, if you look at something like base fear, right?
	Like ooga booga, someone jumps out with a clown mask on, that's base fear.
	Now, that's not exactly an emotion.
	Emotions that are shared by, say, rodents or squirrels or something like that, it's not particularly
	Emotional that's a response for sure and that's saying there's a danger here and so on well That's obvious right so if a lion comes charging at you you have the experience of fear Not really an emotion in the way that I would use the word and again.
	I may be slicing and dicing beyond comprehension, but I think it's important
	to differentiate between lizard brain reactions and human emotions, emotions that are particular to human beings.
	Now, the problem with human beings is that the greatest danger that we face
	is not enemies, right?
	That's the greatest danger that we face.
	Not enemies.
	Enemies are pretty obvious.
	I hate you!
	I'm gonna get you!
	Okay, well that's someone you gotta watch out for or take care of or avoid or something like that, right?
	What is the greatest danger that you and I and every other human being, except maybe for 1% of people, what is the greatest danger that we face?
	What is the greatest danger that we face?
	In your life, in our lives as a whole, as a society, as individual.
	Is it predation?
	No.
	Death?
	Nope.
	State?
	Nope.
	Abandonment?
	Nope.
	Crazy parents?
	Nope.
	Ourselves?
	Nope!
	Sorry, to be annoying.
	And listen, I'm saying nope like I've got some final answer, but I'll give you the answer and you can tell me if it makes sense.
	Emotional manipulation, humans, genes not living on, but this is, I mean, genes not living on is everyone, predators is everyone, and so on, right?
	Ostracism?
	Again, that's common to all.
	So, I'll tell you what I think.
	You can tell me if it makes sense to you or not.
	Okay.
	So, the greatest danger that we face as human beings is not enemies, and it's not predators, and it's not violence.
	The greatest enemy that we face is camouflage.
	The greatest enemy we face is camouflage.
	It's the predators that appear to all parts of us except our deepest instincts as friends.
	As friends, as educators, as helpers, as protectors.
	Well, we just want to keep the currency stable, and we just want to keep children safe, and we just want to take care of the sick, and the poor, and the old, and we just want to make sure society is great, and we're just all compassionate, and we love people.
	That's the great danger.
	That's the great danger.
	It's the camouflaged predators.
	If we can see the predators, no problem.
	But...
	Yeah, the False Friends.
	It's the camouflage.
	Camouflage is incredible.
	I mean, you can steal half the wealth of an entire country in seven years with inflation.
	Easily.
	But go around door-to-door and try and steal half the wealth of a country.
	That's... Yeah, the Among Us, right?
	The Among Us thing.
	It's like, well, they look just like us, but they're a murderer!
	This is one of the reasons why that game is so popular.
	The reason why these games are so popular is because
	There's someone who looks just like us, they act just like us, but they're secretly a murderer and we have to find them out.
	It's the people who credibly say that they're there to help you, who are actually exploiting you.
	That's the great danger.
	That's the great danger.
	I mean, you had teachers when you were growing up who could probably pass a lie detector test that, boy, you know, oh, they just live for helping children, and they care for children, and they just want children to be educated.
	Like, they probably would weep fountains of tears.
	Fountains of tears.
	The snake in the garden.
	Not quite.
	Not quite, because the snake at least looks like a snake.
	So, all the people who put themselves forward as the saviors of mankind that are the slithery, squid-tentacled fingers of pickpocketing the future, those are the dangers.
	You can protect yourself against a predator.
	Right?
	I don't know.
	The original Battlestar Galactica was, you know, cheese on a spaceship back in the 70s.
	But the new Battlestar Galactica, it's not that new now.
	The difference is the Cylons look just like people.
	And they can't tell the difference between the people and the aliens, right?
	And one of the great battles is trying to figure out who are the aliens, because they can kill people, take them over, mimic them, reproduce them.
	Like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, right?
	Which is about communism.
	I mean, they even have amazing grace, because the natural enemy of communism is Christianity, right?
	They even have amazing grace and they think they're saved, but it turns out it's just more communists.
	So, because they look just like you and they say that they're here to help, but they're not.
	Somebody says, my dad took me to therapy sessions despite my problems being primarily caused by him.
	Right, and of course I don't want to speak to his therapist in particular, but I would imagine that most therapists, if a parent brings a child in for a therapy session, I'm sure the therapist says, no, you're the parent, it's you.
	So, hit me with a why if this makes sense.
	That our greatest danger is camouflage, not predation.
	I appreciate some of the overt enemies.
	They're very helpful.
	They tell you up front, I don't like you.
	Stay away or else.
	Right.
	Right.
	And we should appreciate those, right?
	It's a great danger in nature, too?
	Well, sure, of course, I mean... But they don't say usually they're your friends, do they?
	I mean, the trapdoor spider just sits there and pretends it's just a piece of ground or something.
	Yeah, the Holy Bible describes a wolf in sheep's clothing.
	Yes, that's right.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	I had a whole game designed once with some friends called Werewolf, which was like Among Us in a way, but
	It was sheep, but some of them were wolves in sheep's clothing.
	Right.
	And this is why horror movies are so ridiculous.
	Oh no, it's a nun with a spike through her head and flaming eyes floating towards you.
	It's like, oh yeah, that's what we face in life.
	It's a clown with giant spiky teeth or a shark in the water.
	I mean, that's not what we face in life.
	That's not what we face in life.
	That's not the dangers we face in life.
	That's not the dangers we face in life.
	And this is what Christianity used to get right, that the devil is fair.
	Fair, fair in terms of attractiveness.
	The devil is pretty.
	The greatest danger we have in life is those who come along and say, hey, consequences?
	You don't need no stinking consequences.
	I'll shoot you from the consequences.
	I'll keep you a child.
	I'll take care of you.
	I'll protect you.
	I'll give you everything.
	Because I love you, and I care about you, and I want you to be happy, and I'm just going to take things over, and I'm going to make sure that you don't mess up, and I'm going to make sure that you're taken care of, and you get your health care, and your kids get food, and you get shelter, and you get
	Everything that you need, I'm just going to come in and nestle and make you safe and give you these injections and everything's going to be wonderful.
	And if your kids are rambunctious, we're going to give them some medicine to calm them down, which is kind of speed for adults, but that's totally fine.
	And you know, I'm going to, I'm going to entertain you.
	I'm going to, I'm not going to program you.
	No, no, no, no.
	I'm like, there was a, in the morning show,
	Which is a kind of hold your nose and watch show, but in the morning show they were complaining about global warming.
	These rich people were complaining about global warming when they literally had taken a private jet to get somewhere.
	Yeah, like the Venus flytrap that lures insects in for a tasty treat.
	Oh yeah, here's some free food, man.
	Free food.
	Right?
	Why does the mouse end up with its vertebrae crushed by the mousetrap?
	Because it doesn't understand that the cheese is not free.
	So how do we find the predators?
	Or to put it another way, if the natural enemy of humanity is camouflage, what is the natural enemy of camouflage?
	Isn't that the big question?
	What is the natural enemy to camouflage?
	If camouflage is the greatest predation on man, what is the greatest predation on camouflage?
	What have we got here?
	Truth!
	Bit of a generic answer.
	The truth.
	Curiosity.
	I read a study a while back about fear slash terror.
	Humans are more terrified of a noise they cannot see or locate than the actual terror they can see.
	Camouflage theory works, yes.
	Safety is the natural enemy of camouflage.
	To me, it's kind of the Godfather quote, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
	I hate that quote.
	Sorry.
	I mean, the Godfather is not a deep movie, and it's not a deep book.
	Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
	I don't know.
	I don't think about my enemies.
	I don't consider them.
	I keep my enemies closer.
	I don't know.
	Seems bizarre to me.
	Okay, what have we got here?
	Seeing well.
	Genuine conversation because we can learn from each other.
	All right.
	What is the primary methodology of camouflage of evildoers against the commonweal?
	Against humanity as a whole?
	What is the primary camouflage?
	What is the primary camouflage?
	How do they camouflage?
	Morality, yes, true.
	Incomplete but true.
	Provocation.
	For your benefit as a friend slash ally.
	Emotions, projection.
	You guys are very good.
	Very good!
	I'm getting goosebumps in places where there should only be nipples, but I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
	It's getting a little cooler.
	I'm just concerned that my goosebumps are going to concentrate and create a fourth nipple.
	No, wait.
	Fifth nipple, sorry.
	Benevolence of good intentions.
	Replication of the parents.
	Subjected morality.
	Subjective morality.
	Yes, all very good.
	All very good.
	Very excellent!
	Magnificent.
	Magnificent.
	I love the smell of philosophy in the morning.
	Smells like imminent doom slash salvation.
	So, this is technical, so you're all right.
	I'm just trying to give it in a way that is more clear, at least for me.
	So the primary camouflage of the predator is reverse categorization.
	And what I mean by that is they say, we could use force to help you, you can't use force to help yourself or to help us.
	So they claim universal morality while giving themselves opposite moral absolutes.
	We can take by force, you can't.
	We can kidnap people and force them to fight, you can't.
	We can create our own currency, you can't.
	So that is this reverse categorization while claiming universality is the primary camouflage.
	Does that make sense?
	Let me know if this makes sense.
	Yes, good!
	Look at all the problems we're solving!
	And we haven't even passed half an hour yet!
	Also, hit me with a 1 to 10 how interesting this topic is.
	We're about two-thirds of the way through.
	Hit me with a 1 to 10 how interesting this topic is.
	10, okay.
	Yeah, it's not about politics, it's about people.
	8.4, well that is some very precise numbers.
	I appreciate that.
	Oh, now I thought of the word pie.
	Now I want some pie.
	There's a place not too far from where I live where they sell Mennonite pies.
	I can't talk about this.
	I literally will Niagara my chin.
	I gotta run to my personal trainer session.
	Love your work and topics, Steph.
	Thank you!
	If you find this helpful.
	3.14159627!
	Mennonite pies?
	Yes!
	It's actually pies made from baked Mennonites.
	That's exactly right.
	Oh, by the way, I forgot to ask if y'all wanna tip a little?
	I, uh...
	I'm deep dish.
	I don't just take the tip.
	But I will take the tip.
	Why so good?
	I assume just all natural ingredients and no bizarre mummification preservatives that would keep them in a tomb like an Egyptian king for 2,000 years.
	They're very good.
	But yeah, if you guys want a tip and help out the show and the book and all of that, I would very much appreciate it.
	And thank you.
	Thank you so much.
	So, the greatest danger that we face is camouflage.
	The greatest camouflage is categorical reversal, or moral reversal.
	And so the natural enemy of the camouflage is moral consistency.
	I'm glad to catch this livestream.
	Stay-at-home mom here currently nursing my son.
	Much love, Steph!
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I didn't realize you were nursing.
	I don't mean to raise my voice.
	Hopefully you have headphones on.
	I don't want to startle your son.
	But I'm a little snacky.
	Okay, so you have headphones on?
	Excellent.
	Excellent.
	Oh, how lovely.
	What a what a lovely thing.
	Philosophy and a baby.
	Breastfeeding.
	That's a beautiful, beautiful combo.
	The head, the heart, and the disgorging of the glands.
	Excellent stuff.
	So, the natural enemy... I heard philosophy is good for breast milk.
	It's nutritious.
	It's nutritious.
	And also, this really is about helping build your immune system, which breast milk does as well, so it's a good combo.
	So, yeah, the greatest enemy is camouflage.
	The worst camouflage or the most dangerous camouflage is moral reversal.
	Thank you for the tip, my friend!
	The greatest unmasker of the camouflage, the greatest destroyer of camouflage is universal ethics, universal morality, right?
	Universal morality.
	So if you can train people in universality while accepting you, you win.
	I mean, if you can train people in out-group preferences while accepting yourself and having yourself only in-group preferences, super-duper bonus, right?
	So philosophy, and UPB in particular, right?
	So philosophy and moral consistency is the great unmasker of
	Camouflaged predation, which is why even though UBB was a fantastic breakthrough, lo these 15 years ago or whenever it was, it's not talked about because it draws direct attacks.
	So a predator would rather take from you without your knowledge or with your approval or voluntarily from you.
	If they can't take from you voluntarily, they will attack you, right?
	So if there's anything that you do that threatens a continued predation, they will simply attack you.
	So the people who say, well, I'm going to steal from other people, I'm going to give to you because I'm just so kind and just I care so much about you and I just want you to be happy and taken care of and I'm so sorry that that guy you had kids with ran off and that's really sad and you're such a brave and noble, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
	That is, yeah, it is a deal with the devil.
	Now, so let's get back.
	We started on this topic because of having emotions versus using emotions.
	Are human beings good at intellectually understanding these reverse moral categories of, I can create my own currency, it will, if you do it, it's counterfeiting and you go to jail, right?
	Are we good at intellectually understanding these things?
	Some say, no.
	One says, yes.
	Some more say no, some might say apparently not.
	Well, I mean, in your conversations with people, when you talk about universal ethics and where they apply and where they seem to be reversed and so on, how do people respond?
	Yeah, they're pretty bad at that, right?
	And this is because this is how we're trained, right?
	You can't have a free society if the government runs your education.
	I mean, you just can't.
	It's just completely impossible.
	Because if you say that
	Aggression is valid for the education of children, then where else would you draw the line?
	Like, you couldn't draw the line anywhere else, right?
	You love homeschooling.
	Amen to that.
	Brothers and sisters, amen.
	Thank you, Monsieur Fromage.
	I appreciate the tip.
	That was very kind.
	So, emotions.
	Are we better at intellectually unpacking hypocrisy
	Or do we get a sense of hypocrisy at an emotional level?
	Are we better at intellectually unpacking the contradictions or are we better at feeling uneasy around a hypocrite?
	Yeah, more emotion, emotions, feelings, you feel uneasy.
	So, I mean, have you had, hit me with a why, if you've had a situation where you find yourself creeped out by someone and later on you find out they're a really bad person.
	Yeah, we've all had that, right?
	I mean, every morning in the mirror I just go... Yeah, you've had that, right?
	So you haven't reasoned out that they're a bad person, but you get a sense.
	That they're a bad person, right?
	So it's your instincts, your gut sense that tells you, in Danger Bill Robinson, you get this uneasiness, this prickliness in the back of your spine, right?
	Let me ask you this, I mean the U.S.
	debt just passed 33 trillion dollars, right?
	Do you think that people intellectually understand that debt, or do you think that they just feel uneasy about society as a whole?
	Somebody says, the issue I had for a long time is that I don't know how I felt around healthy people.
	I didn't know.
	So I had no compared to what for the sickening feeling.
	And yet they always get into the car with the serial killer.
	No, they don't!
	You guys know the old joke about the hitchhiker, right?
	The old joke about the hitchhiker is that the hitchhiker gets picked up by some guy in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere, and the hitchhiker says to the guy, I mean, thank you for picking me up.
	I was a bit surprised.
	I didn't think anyone would pick me up.
	I mean, I could just be some complete psycho serial killer.
	And the guy locks the doors, the driver locks the doors and says, no.
	I mean, what are the odds that there'd be two of us in the car at the same time?
	Yeah, so people just feel uneasy.
	They just feel uneasy.
	Why is it that people are in massive resource gathering mode?
	Why is it that they're drinking too much?
	Why is it that they're promiscuous?
	Why is it that they're doing all of the end days stuff?
	Why are they not having kids?
	Why are they not getting married?
	Why are they not deferring gratification?
	Why?
	Because everyone's getting this kind of uneasy feeling that bad things are happening.
	And they can't articulate it, right?
	They just feel depressed, they feel anxious, they feel hedonistic, they feel like there's not much point preparing for long-term life strategies or anything like that, right?
	They're depressed and they dive into, like all people with a sense of doom, they dive into short-term endorphin strategies, right?
	It's rough.
	I mean, it's rough.
	Video games, pornography, they're just short-term hedonism strategies, right?
	I mean, you don't brush your teeth when the Titanic is going down, right?
	You don't floss.
	You grab facefuls of cheesecake and greet the ocean, right?
	Does that make sense?
	So.
	Emotions are there.
	Like, why have we evolved emotions?
	They're there to tell us about things that are good or bad for us that aren't obvious.
	And in particular, it is around this camouflage.
	Is this why hedonism is always linked to end times?
	People usually frame it as a cause of the catastrophe, but it's really more of a symptom.
	Oh yeah, for sure.
	For sure.
	Yeah.
	It's not hedonism.
	It's a rational calculation to maximize pleasure near the end of things, right?
	Does that make sense?
	I mean, you know, there's that old joke, like why did they, when they're going to give the guy the lethal injection, why did they give him the alcohol swab so he doesn't get an infection?
	It's like they're just about to kill the guy, right?
	And the last meal, who sits there and thinks, well, you know, it is my last meal, but I don't want to have anything unhealthy, right?
	Like you're an hour from dying, right?
	My grandpa died back in February.
	The last few months before his death, he blew over a hundred grand in gambling.
	Oh no, that's not hedonism.
	That's rage.
	Yeah, that's straight-up rage.
	Yeah, sorry.
	That's just he doesn't like his family and doesn't want to give them money.
	Yeah, that's... sorry about... to be blunt about that, but that's not hedonism.
	Because gambling is very stressful.
	That's not hedonism, that's just screw the grandkids.
	I'm just going to set fire to them.
	I just love the smell of $100 bills in the morning, so I'm just going to set fire, don't mind.
	Yeah, that's not about hedonism, that's just rage.
	I don't mean to speak for your grandfather, obviously he died, but I can't imagine that that's hedonism at all.
	I mean, a lot of hedonism is rage, you understand that?
	Hedonism of sleeping with lots of women is
	It's rage against women, right?
	It's the dehumanization of women because you feel dehumanized by a woman, probably a mother, maybe your teachers.
	You feel dehumanized by a woman and therefore you're going to dehumanize women by just sleeping with them and reducing them to mere flesh because you were not dealt with in a deep manner, so you then deal with women in the shallowest possible manner, which is just using them for sex, right?
	What do you call people who periodically bring up something negative you did to them, but when you take responsibility and apologize, they say something like, oh, chill out, it's okay, whatever, it doesn't matter anymore.
	I understand that you don't have to accept someone's apology, but if it's whatever, why bring it up?
	To bully someone?
	Yeah, and you're right, so they wish to retain leverage over you, right?
	So they'll bring up the thing that you did that was wrong, and they won't accept your apology, because if they accept your apology, then you have a reason to say, don't bring it up anymore, right?
	Like, I already apologized, you already accepted my apology,
	So, emotions
	are for sniffing out masked intentions that are not empirically clear.
	Right, so emotions, the deepest emotions, really, are for sniffing out masked intentions that are not empirically clear.
	Right, so some guy's running at you with a chainsaw, you're in danger, right?
	And so you know that, you don't need any instincts or deep emotions or anything like that, right?
	But where there's danger in the personality that is masked by beauty or sexiness or handsomeness or wealth or eloquence or sophistry or manipulation, you need to sniff past the mask and seek what's behind what's underneath.
	How do you do that?
	How do you do that?
	I don't know how anyone else does it.
	I don't.
	And you guys may have your own strategies.
	So the one thing, the one thing that I look for when I'm in the presence of a potential manipulation or a potential manipulator.
	Again, I want to make sure this topic is of interest to you because I can talk about anything that you want.
	Do you want to know how to unmask the manipulators?
	It's subtle, but it's worked every time for me.
	Like, I'm batting a thousand with this one, so maybe it's common to everyone, and maybe it'll help you tip.
	So, what I look for is... I look for cunning.
	And I know that's not a particular – oh, just look for cunning, like it's on the forehead, right?
	So I look for cunning.
	So what I do is if you've ever seen a kid who's like, you know, they're covering their faces, they're pretending to cry because they really want something, and what they do is they look up through their fingers to see if it's having an effect.
	You ever seen that or experienced that?
	That somebody's checking in to see whether the emotions they're using are having the desired effect.
	Right?
	Does that make sense?
	You've seen that before.
	So that's cunning, right?
	That's not having an emotion, that's using an emotion.
	Is what I'm saying having the effect?
	So if somebody's genuinely talking to you, they're not concerned with the effect of their conversation because they're not trying to get you to do something or not do something.
	They're just trying to control you, right?
	They're not trying to control you.
	They're just speaking and being honest.
	But somebody who's trying to control you, who's trying to push your buttons, needs to see if the buttons are working.
	So when someone is telling you something and you can see them scanning for the response, am I hitting the button?
	Am I getting the button?
	Am I implanting the Geppetto strings?
	Am I getting the puppet stuff going?
	Am I putting the chains on?
	Am I controlling the person?
	They need to see if what they're doing is working!
	So you have the genuine emotion followed by, or sorry, you have what seems like genuine emotion constantly interspersed with, is it working?
	Am I getting what I want?
	Is this working, right?
	Does that make sense?
	Hit me with a Y if this makes sense.
	And then there's another way to check, which I use.
	So once you notice that they're checking to see if it works, so they have an emotion,
	They express that emotion to you, and what I do is I say, okay, so it looks like they're checking to see if their emotion is working to get what they want.
	So if I don't give them what they want and their emotion changes, BOOM!
	Predator right there.
	100%.
	100% every single time.
	100% every single time.
	If they're emotional, and you see them checking to see if it's working, and if the emotion changes when it doesn't work, they don't have any real emotions at all.
	It's just vampiric.
	It's just all using fake emotions.
	So a typical example is your mother is crying because she's upset about something and she wants you to change your behavior.
	And if you don't commit to changing your behavior or you question her, what does she flip from?
	Crying to what?
	What does she flip from?
	From crying to what?
	Yeah, to anger.
	Yeah, that's right.
	So the crying is not real because the crying is to get you to do what she wants and if
	You don't do what she wants, the emotion switches from crying to anger.
	Does that make sense?
	And then if you stand tall against the anger and you don't submit to the anger, the anger collapses into self-recrimination and self-pity.
	And then it might switch back to anger again.
	Or if she's not getting what she wants, then the... If she's tried a whole bunch of emotional... Yeah, like trying the keys in the door.
	So if she's tried a whole bunch of emotional stuff to get what you want, a whole bunch of emotional manipulation, and she still doesn't get what she wants, what does she do?
	How do you know that it's a manipulation?
	If you need proof after all of that, how do you know?
	100% manipulation.
	What does she do if she's tried everything in her playbook and she doesn't get what she wants?
	What does she do?
	Yeah, like the beggar on the street who calls you a P.O.S.
	if he doesn't get what he wants, yeah.
	Calls the police?
	No, probably not.
	Attacks you?
	No.
	No, because all of these are strategies.
	She could threaten to call the police, she could threaten to attack you, she might even... No, but, so, let's say you're an adult.
	Sorry, I was not clear at all.
	Sorry, that was my bad.
	My bad at all.
	So I'm just talking, if you're an adult, and...
	No, because if you're a kid, she'll just threaten violence or escalation and you have to submit.
	But if you're an adult, and your mom's trying all this manipulative crap on you, and you don't fall for any of it, what does she do?
	Says you don't love her?
	No, that's just another... Like, if all of these strategies... Yeah, if you cared for me, you'd... Right?
	I gave everything.
	I sacrificed everything.
	How dare you, right?
	Don't come to my funeral?
	Mine turned into a screaming meltdown, but that's a rage manipulation.
	What happens if you, against all of these hurricanes of maternal manipulation, if you stand tall, I'm not saying it doesn't affect you because you're a human being, obviously it affects you, but when nothing works, when nothing works, she rage quits.
	I mean, in that interaction, she just rage quits.
	She'll just storm out, right?
	Now, of course, you're right, she'll go to cry to others about you, and she'll try and get other people to collude to attack you and get on her side, get you on her side, and, oh, how could you do this, your mother's so upset, right?
	She'll do all of that stuff, right?
	But, so, looking for the cunning, looking for the calculation, looking for the various strategies, and then if the strategies don't work, the rage quit, 100% manipulator.
	100%.
	Nothing's real about that interaction at all.
	Nothing is real about that interaction.
	It's just trying a bunch of different emotionally manipulative keys to try and unlock your free will and put you under her control.
	To put you back in the womb and have you just obey what everything.
	Yep, grandmother in a nutshell.
	Haven't had her in my life for three plus years.
	I'm sorry to hear about that.
	I'm sorry to hear about that.
	It's very tough.
	Very tough.
	Very tough.
	Sister-in-law and my mom, 100%.
	Or it could be one emotion but to varying levels of intensity?
	Yes, absolutely right.
	It might be... often there's things like pleading and wheedling and complaining and nagging and self-pity and attack and recrimination and guilt-tripping and just a wide variety.
	It's like watching at the end of that one of the... I think it's Terminator 2 where the silver Terminator Goo is turning into everyone he ever met just to try and survive.
	Today was my grandfather's funeral.
	I got there early to pay my respects but my mom was there so I left.
	I'm okay with my decision but I'm unsure if I set a good example for my kids.
	I think it's pretty important if your parents or anyone is manipulative and destructive in your life, I think it's a pretty good example for your kids to not have manipulative people in your life.
	Does that make sense?
	Again, hit me with a why if this is of value and useful to you.
	And if it's not, that's totally fine.
	We can follow the center philosophy wherever the trail doth lead.
	So what is it that gives you the strength to stand up against manipulations, which reveal the people who use emotions rather than have emotions?
	What are the emotions that have you stand tall against manipulations?
	Anger?
	I obviously don't want to tell you what works for you.
	Frustration?
	Yes.
	I mean a foundational test of whether you have a relationship or not is can you disagree with the person.
	Are you allowed to disagree?
	Are you allowed to disagree?
	Even to an oppositional degree.
	Are you allowed to disagree?
	I mean, this is the fundamental test of a relationship.
	If you're not allowed to disagree, it's not a relationship.
	It's a master-slave combo, right?
	It's not a relationship if you can't disagree.
	Does that make sense?
	So, I can't tell you what your emotions are that give you the strength
	To withstand manipulation, but the emotion when I was confronting the really manipulative people in my... You disagree?
	Totally fine.
	I could be wrong.
	So the emotion that helped me the most when I was confronting manipulators was fear.
	And I know I said, oh, fear is not an emotion, but this wasn't fear like ooga booga stuff.
	It was like terror.
	Um, anger was not so much for me.
	That was later when I was processing it.
	More, I felt angry.
	But at that moment, I felt fear.
	Heart-pounding fear.
	Yeah, yeah.
	It was terror.
	It was like literally hanging by a thread over a flaming hellish void, kind of.
	Kind of.
	It was beyond anxiety.
	It was beyond nervousness.
	It was heart-pounding terror.
	Like sweat.
	My eyeballs feel like they're swelling in my sockets and I'm having trouble breathing.
	My hands are shaking.
	Just boom!
	Heart-pounding fear.
	Yeah, that's the way.
	That's the way.
	Historically accurate fear.
	Yeah, that's a historically accurate fear.
	What a fantastic way of putting it.
	Wow, that just gave me fifth nipple goosebumps.
	Well done.
	Well done.
	Very well put.
	Now, what I found over the course of, I mean, therapy and thinking about these emotions and dealing with these emotions, where did the fear come from?
	What was the origin?
	of the fear I felt, the terror that I felt, in confronting manipulators.
	What was the origin of that fear?
	What was the source?
	The first bad experiences?
	I don't think so.
	What if you were wrong?
	No, I did not feel that I was wrong.
	Ah, Dave!
	Cooking with volcanic gas.
	When you confront a manipulator and the manipulator's tools don't work, where does the terror come from?
	Where does the terror come from?
	What's the origin and source of the terror when you don't take the manipulator's bait?
	When you don't let yourself get manipulated, where does the terror come from?
	That it would go on forever?
	Nope.
	No.
	Being thrown against a wall at minus 50 pounds?
	That she will end you?
	It just got more dangerous for you?
	No, because you're an adult.
	So physically, you're not under their control anymore.
	Their reaction slash abuse.
	I don't think so.
	Again, I don't want to tell you guys that you're wrong.
	Obviously, this is your experience, but I'll tell you what it was for me.
	What I got when I was confronting my mother about the violence, which I did, I think, on three separate occasions.
	The terror that I felt was hers.
	Her terror.
	Her terror.
	That her manipulations weren't going to work anymore.
	It was her terror.
	It wasn't even my terror.
	It was her terror that the gig was up.
	It was her terror at being unmasked.
	It was her terror that if she couldn't control me, I was going.
	I had nothing.
	Because she had no backup.
	She had nothing else to offer.
	I was feeling her.
	I was empathizing with her terror.
	At being confronted.
	Like, if you're not a manipulator, and, I mean, obviously I have my faults, I don't think manipulation is a big one, but if you're not a manipulator, you don't know what it's like to live in fear of being unmasked and being revealed as powerless!
	Being revealed as powerless.
	Like, if you're handing across a $20 bill, and it's a good $20 bill, it's an authentic $20 bill, you don't feel terror if someone pulls out a counterfeit detection machine, right?
	But if it's a fake bill that you just created in your basement, you're gonna feel terror.
	So when the clerk, who, if the clerk is emotionally sensitive, and the clerk starts putting the... the money in front of the counterfeit detection machine, he's gonna feel the anxiety of the counterfeiter.
	It's empathy.
	Why would I be afraid of no longer being subjected to manipulation?
	That's a good thing!
	It's healthy for me, it's helpful to me.
	Ah, but the manipulator!
	If the manipulator has these subtle skyhook claws of thought, and they don't land on anything, they don't attach to anything, they can't control anyone, boom!
	They're powerless.
	They've lost all control, all power, all authority.
	It's all gone, baby!
	It's out there.
	It's yeeted, it's yoinked, it's ejected, it's gone.
	It's not your fear that you're feeling.
	It's their fear.
	This makes me feel sorry for them, but then angry I don't feel more empathy for myself.
	Part of the reasons that we obey manipulators when we're younger is that if we don't obey them, then they will take out that fear and helplessness on us, usually in raging, angry, and violent ways.
	I assume that nobody here is much of a manipulator, so we don't know what it's like to only focus on manipulating and controlling other people.
	Because when you manipulate other people, what are you saying?
	What are you saying about yourself and the value that you bring to bear when you manipulate other people?
	When you fake cry, you fake rage, you threaten, you bully, you... What are you saying to the other person about your value?
	If you have to manipulate, bully, bribe or threaten them into spending time with you.
	Yeah, no values, no real love for being yourself, that you're unlovable.
	Me plus force is needed to be respectable.
	You are subpar.
	Yeah.
	The hollowness, the emptiness, it's truly chilling.
	The hollowness and emptiness, it's the heart of that kind of personality.
	Every shred of manipulation is a manifestation of self-hatred.
	Do you follow?
	Every shred of manipulation is a manifestation of self-hatred.
	When did you realize you were feeling your mother's terror?
	It was a couple of weeks afterwards.
	Somebody says, oh, nice to see you again.
	I had a falling out with my sister a few years ago.
	My last birthday she reached out to say happy birthday with lots of sweet sentiments and that she hopes we can salvage one of the most important relationships we have.
	End quote, because she loves me and will, quote, always be there for me.
	She almost had me believing her until I realized she's never been present in my life unless I was doing something for her, not even when I was plainly saying, I need help in my darkest moments.
	I'm so sorry.
	I'm so sorry.
	I mean, sibling relationships should be some of the most beautiful things around.
	And boy, are they ever not sometimes.
	And I'm really sorry for that.
	I'm really, it's very, very sad.
	I mean the only thing that's sadder is continuing to believe the lies, right?
	I mean, what do we say about a man who can't get anyone to hang out with him unless he pays for them for their dinner, or he pays for their whole night, he picks up the bar tab, he flies them to Cabo San Lucas, he takes them to Cancun, and if he's not paying for them, if he's not shoveling thousands of dollars at them, they won't hang out with him.
	What do we say?
	about a man like that.
	We'd say that every dollar is a confession that nobody wants to spend time with him.
	Every dollar is a confession that nobody wants to spend time with him.
	That he, without the money, is not worth spending time with.
	So,
	When you confront, if you're emotionally sensitive, because I think we are here, right?
	So if you're emotionally sensitive and you confront a manipulator, the manipulator feels terror because they have no backup plan, they have no other way of getting what they want.
	All they can do is bribe and bully, bribe and bully, bribe and bully, bribe and bully.
	And what you do is you push them closer to the abyss at the center of their non-existence.
	You push them closer to that abyss.
	They literally feel like you're pushing them into a canyon, that they'll fall forever.
	There won't even be a splat and an end.
	They'll just fall forever and ever and ever.
	No amen, no end.
	Why would
	People be nice to you.
	Why would people do things for you?
	Why would they do you favors?
	Why would they help you out?
	Why would they?
	You know, I mean, I ask for tips and all of that.
	And if you find this stuff helpful, I'm, of course, very grateful for tips.
	But why would anyone do nice things for you?
	I mean, there's really only two reasons.
	Either because they love you or because they fear you.
	Love versus fear.
	Love versus fear.
	Positive economics, negative economics, right?
	You support a charity because you love what they do.
	You pay your taxes because you fear being arrested, right?
	Why would somebody do nice things for you?
	Are you?
	I mean, I'll ask you this.
	On a 1 to 10, how worthy of you are you of people doing very nice things for you?
	Helping you out, supporting you, helping you move, coming over, baking you a cake, bringing you chicken soup when you're sick.
	How worthy are you of people doing nice things for you?
	Just no manipulation, no threats, no bullies, no nothing, no... How worthy are you of people
	Doing really nice things for you.
	We got a 4.
	Michael, that's quite a lot of confidence.
	10.
	Lyrid is 9.
	Rav is 7 to 8.
	Dave is 5.
	Chris is 4.
	10.
	I always do twice more for someone who helps me.
	But that's a bribe, right?
	They're not helping you, they're investing for a return.
	I mean, it's like saying, how worthy are you of someone giving you $100?
	It's like, well, no, because if they give me $100, I'm giving them $200 back.
	No, they don't know that.
	Really?
	They don't know that?
	But if it's a long-term relationship, wouldn't they know that after a while?
	All right, let me ask you this.
	Why do people do nice things for you?
	If you're confident, and I'm not disagreeing with you, it's a self-assessment, it would be crazy for me to disagree with you, but why, why do people do nice things for you?
	What is the basis?
	Good value provided?
	I don't, that's a bit abstract.
	But why do people do nice things for you?
	They want something in return?
	Well, then it's not that nice, is it, right?
	I mean, that's like you going to see your grandmother because you want her to give you a million dollars when she dies.
	You want to be in the will, right?
	For either virtue or interest, they care about you, they like you.
	I get tipped for going further than the original contract.
	I don't know what that means.
	It's more than waitering.
	Depends, do I enrich or bring value to their life?
	Why do people do nice things for you?
	Why do people do nice things for you?
	I only have a handful of people that I can say do nice things for me regardless of what I do.
	Well, I don't know about regardless of what I do, of what you do.
	I mean, if you punch them every time they were nice, I'd hope they'd stop being nice.
	So why do people do nice things for you?
	It's an interesting, I think it's an interesting question, right?
	I've earned it, I suppose.
	They believe in my goodness.
	They expect you to pass it on.
	It makes them feel good to see you happy.
	Yeah?
	Because we evolved to collaborate.
	Boy, we don't collaborate that much, do we?
	So, I mean, you're all right, obviously, and again, I'm not trying to say I have some monopoly on the answer here, but the way that I would phrase it is people do nice things for you because you're one flesh.
	Because your happiness and their happiness are simultaneous.
	Steph, you are cool, for real, for real!
	Thank you, I appreciate that.
	Don't get a lot of hip-hop lingo in here, but I'll take it.
	I mean, if my wife is unwell, and there's something I can do to help her,
	Then I really want to help her because her happiness is my happiness.
	There's no differentiation that way, right?
	Does that make sense?
	Because your happiness is their happiness.
	This is why I only really trust my family.
	Oh, you mean your current family, right?
	Is that right?
	Your current family?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's win-win.
	So, I mean, we kind of have a running gag in my household that my wife has a coffee in the morning, and she has a coffee
	At 3 o'clock.
	And the coffee has to sit for, I think I've calculated it, 14.271 minutes, and then it's good to drink.
	At 15 minutes it's not... it's too cold.
	It's got to be just the right temperature.
	It's a science, it's an art, it's a calling, it's a cult, it's a religious experience, and often you need to be on mescaline plus peyote to get it just right.
	My wife does wonderful things for me.
	I do wonderful things for her.
	And so if she makes her own coffee, I'm like, that's my job.
	I'm helping.
	I'm here to help.
	It's my job to make you your coffee.
	Because I like making her a coffee and bringing her her coffee.
	It puts a smile on my face.
	It makes me happy for me to make her coffee and bring her her coffee.
	If that makes sense, right?
	As long as it's at the right time.
	I can't just leave it there, because then she might sample it.
	It's either too hot or too cold.
	It's very much time-sliced Goldilocks, right?
	So I like doing things for my wife.
	She likes doing things for me.
	It's fun.
	It's enjoyable.
	Her happiness is my happiness, right?
	That's very sweet of you.
	I mean, it's fun.
	I like it.
	And she does so much for me that, I mean, what I can do in return is great.
	My husband turns on the coffee machine for me every morning, I assume by twerking, so it's heated up when I get up in the morning just to be nice.
	Yeah.
	That's very nice, right?
	And it's a nice little part of you.
	Nice little part of what's happening, right?
	So,
	I'm worthy of people doing nice things for me because I do nice things for people.
	You know, I had an emergency call yesterday.
	A guy was really down and he's here in the chat and I put things aside to do the call.
	Unfortunately, the call was lost to the ether because the file got corrupted some mysterious manner.
	But I mean, that happens once every thousand podcasts.
	So we just got to live with it.
	Price of doing business, I guess.
	But at least we've resurrected some of it in this show with the having feelings versus using feelings.
	So let's go to a manipulator.
	So it's win-win.
	You do nice things for each other.
	This is what it means when you say you become one flesh.
	And it's not just husbands and wives.
	Friends become one flesh as well, right?
	And it doesn't mean always doing nice things and being nice, right?
	Like if you've pulled a muscle in your back, you want that muscle to complain, right?
	You want that muscle to hurt you so that you can exercise it more, you can massage it, you can put heat patch on it.
	So you want your muscle to complain when you overuse it.
	Does that sort of make sense?
	And so your body is unkind to you in order to be kind to you.
	It causes you discomfort in order to help you.
	And so sometimes in friendships, to help a friend, we have to be, quote, unkind, or harsh, or direct, or whatever it is, in order to help the person.
	So your body is nice by hurting you, and sometimes you can be very nice and helpful to your friends, even if it causes them discomfort, or perhaps by causing them discomfort, you get the tough love.
	We get all of that, right?
	That makes sense.
	So, what about manipulators?
	Why do you do what the manipulator wants?
	Can't return the value now, but hopefully someday.
	Oh, thank you for the tip.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, everyone, for dropping by and listening.
	It's a great convo.
	I appreciate that.
	It won't be a super long show today, because I did a show this morning, I did a show this afternoon, and I'm doing a show now, and I've got a show tomorrow.
	Yeah, so why do you... Like, if my wife says, can you do X for me?
	I'd be like, absolutely.
	Like, thrilled to.
	I'm happy to.
	And she's the same way.
	So why do you do what the manipulator wants?
	To avoid negative consequences.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	It's not out of kindness.
	It's not out of love.
	You do what the manipulator wants, because they'll punish you otherwise.
	If I expose the obvious manipulation, they'll get hostile.
	For sure, yeah.
	So it's win-lose, you understand.
	So the manipulator is confessing
	That nobody wants to help them voluntarily.
	Do you follow this?
	The manipulator is saying, nobody likes me.
	Nobody is one flesh with me.
	I overlap my happiness with no one.
	And no one's unhappiness overlaps with mine.
	I am alone.
	I am negative.
	I am destructive.
	I am unloved.
	There's a great song by Jan Arden called Unloved.
	I've always... The people falling, falling, falling, but I don't know where they're falling from.
	Are they unloved?
	Often they have a partner who will stick with them no matter what.
	That's a horribly imprecise statement.
	And if... Thank you, I appreciate that, for the tip.
	And if a manipulator does something for you, you just know it will cost you later, like a candy bar in prison, not to be too dark, but the idea is the same.
	Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
	It's gonna cost you later!
	So often they have a partner who will stick with them no matter what.
	Well, they have the goods on each other, and of course, if it's a woman,
	The man may stick with her because she'll rake him through the coals in family courts.
	Tim says, I was chatting with someone who said they disliked you.
	Oh my god.
	I don't like.
	I don't like.
	Two and two make four.
	I don't like that person.
	The Earth is a sphere.
	I dislike.
	Negative feel.
	Bad vibe.
	Bad vibe.
	Oh, that's very funny.
	Dislike me.
	Sorry, Tim says, I was chatting with someone who said they disliked you.
	I asked him what they did like, and he said, all I do is dislike people.
	Does he mean all you do, Tim, or all he does is dislike people?
	Oh, so he had no positive interests.
	Right.
	So he's a very negative person who dislikes me because I'm a very positive person.
	I'm certain that I'm positive.
	Plus... I'm kidding.
	I was talking about himself.
	Yeah, all I do is dislike people, but I really dislike that stuff.
	Okay.
	So a person who doesn't like anyone dislikes me.
	I guess I'm a biped and mammals as well, and I have an exodermic skin seven layers deep.
	No, don't walk away from such people.
	Run!
	I was like, OK, let's talk about something you do like.
	And he couldn't think of anything.
	If I expect somebody to help me because I always help them when they needed it, am I a manipulator?
	If I expect someone to help me because I always help them when they needed it, am I a manipulator?
	What a great question.
	I think it's a great question.
	Ooh, that's a great question.
	It's a great question so much that my shoulders are up around my ears.
	Do everybody else feel that that's a great question?
	Is that a great question?
	Two hydrogen atoms walk into a bar.
	One says, shit, I lost an electron.
	The other says, are you sure?
	He says, I'm positive.
	Boom.
	All right.
	All right.
	This is going to blow your mind.
	Gonna blow your mind.
	Oh, is this the first time over the course of this show that we're blowing people's minds?
	Feels like we've had a lot of foreplay.
	I'm ready for it.
	Just joined.
	That was a good question.
	Hello, Chris!
	Right.
	Question is, if I expect somebody to help me because I always helped them when they needed it, am I a manipulator?
	No!
	You are exploited and you're hoping to exploit back.
	You've been exploited and you're really, really hoping to exploit back for equity.
	I've always helped them when they needed it.
	Why would you do that?
	Why would you always help someone when they need it?
	Because you've been exploited!
	They've taken from you!
	Oh, because it made you happy to help them when they needed it?
	Okay, so what you're saying is it makes people happy to help others when they need it.
	It makes people happy.
	It makes people happy to help others when they need it, right?
	So then you should never expect that person to help you because they will make themselves happy by helping you and you won't need to expect it.
	It will just happen.
	Does that make sense?
	Okay, so why hasn't it happened?
	Well, I just really like helping, we'll call him Bob, right?
	I just really like helping Bob.
	I just do everything that Bob needs.
	I always help him out when he needs it, right?
	And then you need something from Bob!
	Is Bob gonna help you back?
	Well, Bob has exploited you.
	If it's been one way, if you've done things for Bob and Bob hasn't done anything for you back, Bob has exploited you!
	And he's lured you into, not generosity, but manipulation and transactionalism.
	Transactionalism is, well, I did this for you, you have to do something for me.
	I bought lunch, you have to buy dinner.
	I paid for this, you have to pay for that.
	That's transactional stuff, right?
	So he's lured you into now, well, hang on, I've deposited a whole bunch of stuff in this relationship bank, it's time for me to get a withdrawal.
	If you should help me because I've helped you a whole bunch of times.
	I've helped you 50 times, I'm just asking for one help back.
	So, you know that in no way, shape, or form is there ever, ever, ever, ever, ever one-way manipulation.
	There's no such thing as one way manipulation.
	I mean, as adults, parent to child is a different matter as always, right?
	There's no such thing as one.
	So why did you help Bob without him helping you back year after year?
	Why did you help Bob when he didn't help you back?
	Oh, I'm such a nice person!
	Nope!
	No, because if helping people is good, and you're not expecting Bob to help you back after you help him, then you're preventing Bob from being good.
	That's not nice.
	Why do you help people one way?
	Why, oh why, oh why?
	There's no such thing as one-way manipulation.
	To feel like you're a good person.
	You're so generous.
	You're so kind.
	You're so helpful.
	You're so loving.
	You're so good.
	And... You don't have expectation that Bob helps you back.
	Because you know that Bob won't help you back.
	And you wish to avoid that basic, simple fact.
	Bob ain't gonna help you back.
	Bob ain't gonna help you back.
	How do you know that?
	Because he hasn't.
	He doesn't take the same pleasure in helping others that you claim to take in helping him.
	So you are... Bob is selfish.
	Bob is exploiting you.
	And you don't want to know that.
	So you keep helping him without expecting reciprocity so you don't have to face the fact that you're being exploited.
	He's avoiding helping you and you're avoiding the truth about the relationship.
	You help him to cover up his selfishness.
	You help him to cover up his exploitation.
	You help him so you don't have to face the truth that it's a one-way relationship.
	I say this with, this is how we're trained, and with great, it sounds harsh, but it's sympathetic, and I respect you for bringing this up, and I'm sorry that this is how you were raised.
	I really am.
	But that's the fact.
	We help people in a one-sided way to avoid the truth
	That it's one-sided.
	And we imagine that we're banking up this big debt.
	Oh, but he'll be there for me.
	And then, at some point, the whole crap show comes crumbling down, the House of Cards comes tumbling down, because you genuinely need something from Bob that only Bob can provide, and he just shrugs and says, nah.
	Which you've known all along, and you've just covered it up by relentlessly helping him.
	You're being as manipulative as Bob.
	It's amazing, says Tim, how some people really take advantage of that.
	Like they'll take and take and take without any worry about it.
	But they're not taking and taking and taking.
	Both parties are taking.
	One is taking resources, the other is maintaining a delusion.
	The cracking of said delusion is very painful.
	So one is getting resources, the other is avoiding pain, avoiding reality, avoiding facts, avoiding truth, avoiding the lack of reciprocity, avoiding acceptance of the selfishness in the relationship.
	Both people are getting something.
	Bob's getting resources, the enabler is getting avoidance.
	But you're not genuinely loved.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	You're avoiding pain.
	You give to avoid the pain of being exploited, which means you also are exploiting the relationship.
	You're exploiting the relationship in order to avoid pain.
	It's like going to somebody, some drug dealer, to get some painkillers, right?
	You go to the drug dealer and you're giving all this money to the drug dealer and say, oh, the drug dealer's exploiting me.
	It's like, no, you're getting painkillers out of it.
	You're getting painkillers out of it, so it's mutual exploitation.
	Does that make sense?
	You're getting painkillers.
	You're continually doing things for Bob to avoid the pain of being exploited.
	Avoiding the pain of being unloved, of being used.
	So you're using Bob to avoid, like your generosity to Bob is using Bob to avoid pain.
	He gets resources, you get to avoid pain.
	This hits close to home.
	Had a friend I helped with a bunch of film projects over the years.
	When I need help, he's unresponsive.
	Right.
	So why did you help your friend with a bunch of film projects over the years?
	And wasn't it completely and blindingly obvious that he was never going to help you back?
	Come on.
	Come on.
	See, y'all want to do this with me.
	Ooh.
	I don't know, blunt?
	Minus 10, super diplomatic.
	Plus 10, super blunt.
	I will let you choose.
	All right, I'm going to assume that the 10 without the plus is a plus 10.
	All right, everybody wants it.
	It's going to hurt.
	Is it ever not a 10?
	Hey, I have to ask.
	I want to be polite every time because this is going to hurt.
	It's going to make you mad, which is fine.
	I'm here to bring as much truth as I can with the brain trust that we have.
	All right.
	Sorry, TK, you're outvoted.
	You need to dive into the pain?
	Oh, it's gonna hurt, man.
	Okay, so let's see.
	I had a friend.
	I helped with a bunch of film projects over the years.
	When I need help, he's unresponsive.
	So that is playing the victim, right?
	That is playing the victim.
	I have no sympathy for that at all.
	I have no sympathy for that at all.
	In fact, I side with your friend.
	No sympathy.
	Not even a bit.
	Not even a bit.
	There's a little black spot on the sun today.
	Right.
	So why don't I have any sympathy?
	Because you knew he wasn't going to reciprocate.
	Because if you keep helping someone over the years and they're not helping you back, you have all the evidence you need, which means you're not being exploited.
	You're not being exploited because you've all the evidence that you need.
	He doesn't help you back.
	His happiness is not your happiness.
	He's not enthusiastic and eager.
	After you help the guy with the first film project, he's not like, oh my gosh, did you ever help me?
	I'm at your service.
	Anything I can do.
	I want to help.
	Please let me help back.
	You were a lifesaver for me and I just... So when he didn't do that, he's saying, hey, I'm a taker.
	Baa!
	Baa!
	Baa!
	I'm a taker!
	And you're like, OK, he's a taker.
	So I'll give to him again.
	Oh, yeah, I'll give to him again.
	Oh, wait, one more time.
	I'll give to him again.
	You never get anything back.
	So for years, you've given and not gotten anything back.
	And then you say, you know what?
	Now I need something.
	And he's not giving anything back.
	Don't even try.
	Don't even try.
	I mean, literally, this is the woman who's like, well, it's true that he had a swastika tattooed on his forehead, and he was a drug addict, and he was violent, and he just got out of prison, but he was not a good boyfriend.
	Don't even.
	Don't even try.
	I mean, you can try with other people.
	It'll probably be, oh my gosh, that's so terrible.
	I can't believe he'd be that selfish.
	I'm on your side.
	You had a one-way relationship for years, and then you're shocked when it's a one-way relationship.
	Don't even try.
	I won't do it.
	And I won't do it because I will not collude in you being an idiot!
	I will not collude in you being a moron!
	I put everyone here, everyone, listening, viewing, donating, not donating, tipping, not tipping, everyone here is a top 1%.
	It's just a fact.
	This is an elite show.
	More elite now than ever.
	Okay?
	So I am not going to collude with the proposition I am not going to accept or get behind or elevate or get behind the proposition that you're a complete moron.
	Nope.
	Won't do it.
	Won't do it.
	Sorry, you've come to the wrong place.
	For degrading you to an idiot status.
	Nope, not gonna do it.
	Now, I do have sympathy for why you ended up in an exploitive relationship and how you were raised.
	I have great sympathy for that.
	I have great sympathy for that.
	But the idea that you have no clue about a lack of reciprocity in a one-way relationship that's gone on for years?
	I won't do it.
	Now, the reason why you were in that relationship, I have great sympathy for, and you may not know that, but the idea you didn't know it was a one-sided relationship?
	Come on.
	You'd have to be half-brain-dead to get away with that.
	Unless it's a child in a one-way relationship.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Of course.
	I can't say, except for kids, that's totally different every single time I open my mouth.
	Please understand, Dave, that it's kind of... I've said it two or three times over the course of this live stream.
	I can't literally say it every time.
	I don't need an asterisk all the time, right?
	That's fine.
	No, you're not an idiot.
	Sorry, I won't go there.
	I need you to believe in yourself and I need you to understand that you're smart.
	And if you're exploited,
	It's not because you didn't know.
	It's because you were raised to be exploited, and that's all you're used to, and that's all you expect.
	Now, that I sympathize with, and getting that causality can be tough.
	Somebody says, I was in a relationship where I gave until it hurt and giving up on them was the best thing I did for myself.
	I ever did for myself.
	Yeah, no, I mean, listen, and I say this with sympathy.
	I also say this with humility, because I got the living crap exploited out of me for years when I should have known better and had every tool to know better.
	I just, it was too painful to see.
	It was too painful to see.
	Because I didn't know any other way.
	I didn't know there were any other kinds of people out there.
	I was locked in this dungeon underworld of exploitation.
	And I just thought, that's it.
	This is life.
	So I don't say this as if, well, I've never been exploited at all.
	I say this having been in the trenches and probably with less excuse and older than you not seeing it.
	So again, I say this with great sympathy and great compassion.
	But not with getting behind the statement that you're an idiot who has no idea about a lack of reciprocity for years.
	You absolutely do.
	Because here's the thing, if I get, and I want you to not be paranoid, and I want you to have good relationships, so if I get behind the statement, well, I had a friend, I helped him with a bunch of film projects over the years, when I need help, he's unresponsive, so are you saying to me that you can't possibly tell whether a relationship is reciprocal earlier than years into it?
	There's no way for you to know.
	Then how on earth are you ever going to have good relationships?
	If you have to wait for years and give, give, give, give, give, you have to wait for years and give, give, give, give, give, and only then maybe, maybe you'll find out whether it's reciprocal or not.
	No, you don't need that.
	You didn't, you don't need that.
	And of course, look, I know, I know, we all know, right?
	The only reason why you were in a relationship with your film black hole buddy who exploited you is because your parents exploited you, your teachers exploited you, the teachers' unions exploit you, the government exploits you, right?
	Steph, is raised to be exploitive a kind of determinism?
	I suppose it's still free will, but harder to make the right choice?
	Is raised to be exploitive a kind of... Do you mean exploited?
	I'm not sure what you... Do you mean... Because I was talking about being exploited.
	Is that what you mean?
	Just hit me with a Y or N. I want to make sure that I'm understanding what you're saying.
	Oh, raised to be exploited, a kind of determinism.
	Tell me what you mean by determinism.
	Well, you have zero choice.
	Okay.
	But if there's zero choice, there's no such thing as exploitation.
	Does gravity exploit me?
	Does sunlight exploit me?
	No.
	Does oxygen exploit me?
	No.
	Because they're atoms and physical properties and relationships, they don't have any choice.
	There's no choice in that, right?
	It's like saying, well, they've invented the airplane, so before there was the airplane, people had no free will.
	No, you had free will.
	You just didn't have the free will to fly, because airplanes didn't exist yet.
	So, I suppose not zero choice no, so not determinism, but a kind of limited free will?
	Again, I don't understand this.
	You're just over-complicating the shit out of this stuff.
	Okay, let me ask you this, O'Brien.
	Can you fly a plane?
	Hit me with a wire and you can't fly a plane, okay.
	Do you have no free will to fly a plane right now?
	Is it determinism that you don't fly a plane?
	Just yes or no?
	Is it determinism that you can't fly a plane?
	No.
	Right.
	So if you want to fly a plane, you can go and learn how to fly a plane, and then you can fly a plane.
	Right, so free will is not what you've done, it's what you can do.
	Now, can you get out of relationships that are exploitive?
	Sure.
	Do you have to be reminded that there are better relationships, that there's a choice, right?
	Every day I don't sit there and say, well, I could drive to the grocery store or I could sprout wings from my ears and fly.
	I don't say that because I can't sprout.
	So the things that are impossible to me, I don't do.
	So I remind people of what's possible so that they can choose it.
	It's not like they are determined ahead of time.
	They can't possibly find out.
	Everyone can go and pick up books and learn and self-knowledge and therapy and everyone knows these things.
	So what you're trying to do is trying to find some way that you can release people from responsibility.
	Well, you know, they were raised to be exploited, so it's natural that they're going to end up being exploited.
	No, it's not.
	Raised to be exploited might easily have you go the opposite way, because you understand that if I said, well, people who are raised in violence don't have the choice to be non-violent parents, I had the choice.
	I'm not a violent parent.
	I was raised in extreme violence.
	I'm not a violent parent.
	So no, there's no determinism in this stuff.
	Yeah, there are tendencies for sure.
	But the tendency is absent knowledge.
	So absent knowledge, you can't fly a plane.
	If you get the knowledge to fly a plane, you can fly a plane.
	So if you don't seek out self-knowledge, if you're not honest with yourself, if you don't pursue virtue, if you don't understand yourself, then it's determined.
	If I had simply acted out the violence that I inherited, I would be a violent person, I'd be a violent father.
	But I chose to pursue self-knowledge, to pursue philosophy, to pursue virtue.
	And I'm trying to spread that as much as possible, as hopefully engagingly and entertainingly as possible, right?
	Does this sort of make sense?
	So if I don't
	Learn how to fly a plane?
	I can't fly a plane.
	But I've made the choice to not learn how to fly a plane.
	So my not flying a plane is not deterministic.
	So if I choose not to examine my history, not to be honest about my emotions, not to study virtue, not to study self-knowledge, not to do any of this stuff... If I choose to avoid knowledge, I don't get the fruits of knowledge.
	If I choose not to become a doctor, I'm not a doctor.
	If I choose not to learn how to change the oil in my car, I can't change the oil in my car.
	Oh no, it's determined.
	No, it's not.
	That's what I mean.
	You're overcomplicating things.
	So you will have a tendency to be exploited if you were raised being exploited.
	And everybody knows.
	Everybody knows this already.
	Is there anyone alive who doesn't know
	That childhood patterns tend to replicate in adults if you don't do anything to change them, right?
	There's nobody alive who doesn't know that, right?
	That the child is the father of the man, the childhood has an effect on the adulthood, right?
	Everybody knows that.
	Can we agree on that?
	I mean, it's not just us 1%.
	Like, everybody knows that.
	Everybody knows that.
	Okay, so everybody knows that without intervention, adulthood tends to replicate childhood, right?
	Everybody knows that.
	Well, no, we all know it.
	Experiencing it is quite different, right?
	People will sometimes say, it depends.
	Well, that's why I said tended to, because it's not absolute that way either.
	Without intervention, adulthood tends to replicate childhood, and that's the continuity of culture, right?
	That's why you program kids in government schools, because then their adulthood will grow out of the propaganda they get as children, and, right, we're all there with that, right?
	So we're there with that?
	So everyone knows that adulthood tends to replicate childhood without self-knowledge.
	Know thyself, the self-help section of the bookstore is huge, and on Amazon you've got multi-hundred-billion-dollar self-knowledge and therapy industries all over the world, right?
	Dr. Phil's been on TV for 6,000 years, and the child is the father of the man came out of, what, Wordsworth in the 19th century or the 18th century or something?
	So, everybody knows this.
	So yes, if somebody's being exploited, and it's a good thing to add, and I don't have any problem with you bringing this up, so if I say this person who said,
	That my film friend, I've helped out on a bunch of his projects, he didn't help me back.
	It's like, okay, so I know that you were exploited as a child, and you didn't do anything about it.
	I know that you were exploited as a child, you were trained to be exploited, and as an adult you continue to be exploited because you haven't pursued self-knowledge to the point where you get free of that.
	And it's a good point to add.
	It's a good point to add.
	So I know that you exploited as a child.
	Now if somebody is not exploited as an adult, I don't know if they were exploited as a child.
	They might have been exploited as a child and dealt with it.
	They might not have been exploited as a child and therefore never had to deal with it.
	The end result is that they're not exploited as an adult.
	So if somebody's not exploited as an adult, I don't know if they're exploited as a child, but if they were exploited as an adult, if they are exploited as an adult, I know they're exploited as a child and that they haven't dealt with it.
	I mean it's a great point and I'm happy that you brought it up and I will
	I hope that that's clear.
	Like the guy I talked to yesterday who was it was one of the more emotionless calls like he called me saying I've got crippling anxiety and agoraphobia and hopelessness and so I shuffled things around and put him up to the top of the queue and then he was just like yeah you know life's okay and I'm doing this and I'm doing that and there was like no feelings there right now he didn't make the connection that one of the reasons he avoided
	Emotions was because his father used emotions.
	He didn't have emotions, he used emotions.
	His father was a bully, his father intimidated, screamed at him.
	His story was once that, this happened a couple of times, but the one story that he told me was he was in the car with his father and his father
	We're good to go.
	But of course I think, certainly if he's listened to the show as he had for a while, then he is aware of the profound respect I have for emotions.
	I don't view emotions as less than reason, I view emotions as complementary to reason, and reason is complementary to emotions.
	It's like two people on a
	Two people on a doubles tennis court, right?
	Which one's more important?
	They're a team.
	They're a team.
	And reason is there to supply what emotions can't, which is systematized conceptual knowledge, and emotions are there
	To supply what reason cannot, which is sniffing through the corridors of time to figure out the outcomes of people's personalities in the moment.
	In other words, you don't want to wait until the guy's locked you in his windowless van to figure out he's dangerous.
	You want to get it out of his eye contact, his calculating nature, his body posture.
	You want to get away from him earlier, right?
	The intellect is for organizing reality in the present and
	That's gaining control over the future and the emotions are for sniffing out predation in the environment and those who will help so that you avoid disaster.
	All right.
	Any last tips, comments?
	Really appreciate great, great questions, pushback, and really, really appreciate everybody's feedback.
	It's just gold to me.
	I just love you guys for giving me such fantastic feedback.
	It is a great privilege and pleasure.
	to have this kind of community available to stimulate me into hopefully some reasonably helpful flights of fantasy.
	Thank you, my friend.
	I really, really appreciate that.
	And it was a great question and comment.
	Just waiting for people typing.
	For me, things had to get pretty rough before I dove into self-knowledge.
	Thank you so much for the help.
	And listen, I sympathize with that as well, and it was the case for me.
	It was not the case for me to dive into self-knowledge.
	I did that since my mid-teens, but I had to have a life crisis, really, that went on for a long time in order to really act on it rather than just think about it.
	Somebody says, Steph, I chat with this brilliant computer scientist guy and he argues that anything destructive is immoral.
	And he uses tornadoes as an example.
	I counter by saying morality has to include human agency.
	Or else concepts like justice are incoherent.
	Is this related to exploitive relationships?
	Anything destructive is immoral.
	But the word destructive is a human word.
	I don't know what destructive means in nature.
	I mean trees don't, like a tree gets torn up by a tornado, a tree doesn't have a concept of destructive.
	You say, oh well the lion eats the zebra, well it's destructive to the zebra but healthy and helpful to the lion.
	So even the concept destructive, I wouldn't know.
	I mean, does the concept destructive or does something called destruction exist in nature?
	Ah, well, but the comet plows into the planet and blows part of it up and stuff like that.
	It's like, well, that's just matter, right?
	There's no concept.
	The matter doesn't care where it is.
	It doesn't prefer to be on the planet or in the stratosphere or in interstellar space or anything like that, right?
	Self-knowledge drove me to therapy.
	I had to drop out of college for a year, but I finished college.
	Good for you.
	Stefan, this is the greatest show I could ever possibly imagine.
	The self-knowledge and the self-help here is truly life-changing for me.
	Every show I learn something useful and important, no matter what the topic.
	I can't thank you enough.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you for the thoughts.
	I'm working on the self-knowledge.
	I appreciate what you do.
	If it's any consolation, it's a good to do a process.
	It's a continual process.
	So yeah, anything destructive is immoral.
	Destructive is a human concept.
	Matter doesn't care.
	Matter doesn't care where it is.
	Matter doesn't say, oh, it's a star.
	That's got warmth, so it's better than just floating around.
	What is it?
	99.8% of everything is hydrogen.
	Hydrogen atoms don't care where they are.
	So destructive is a human concept.
	That there is something called the planet.
	Which is destroyed by a giant meteor or something like that, but the matter doesn't care, and the matter is not destroyed.
	Matter can never be created or destroyed, only converted to energy and back.
	So destructive, anything destructive, a tornado, a tornado is not destructive.
	Oh, but it breaks people's houses.
	It's like, yes, I understand it's destructive to the purpose of those houses, but that's a human concept.
	I mean, if you think of a
	A stream that wears away rock.
	It's destroying the rock.
	It's like, no.
	There's no concept of that.
	There's nothing.
	The stream doesn't care.
	It's just H2O.
	And the rock doesn't care.
	It's just granite.
	It doesn't matter where it goes.
	There's no creation or destruction or anything like that.
	Well, the planet was formed and created.
	It's like, no, the matter just arranged in some particular manner.
	Did you know, by the way, did you know?
	This sort of a little closing thought that I think is interesting.
	Do you know forest fires revive and maintain healthy forests?
	Yeah, that's very true.
	That's very true.
	Uh, did you know that Jupiter is why we're here?
	Do you know?
	Do you know Jupiter is why we exist?
	I don't mean the God.
	Oh, maybe.
	No.
	Do you know Jupiter's role in... Did you know Jupiter is why life exists on Earth?
	It's kind of interesting.
	Well, first of all, you know just how, what is it, 300 times the size of Earth.
	Like, yeah, Jupiter absorbs asteroids and comets.
	Yeah, Jupiter changes the orbits and absorbs asteroids and comets to the point where life can flourish.
	It's wild.
	It's just wild.
	Yeah, it keeps the more destructive space debris away, so, yeah.
	It's pretty interesting.
	Pretty interesting.
	Now, of course, it's not design, it's just coincidence, but it's pretty, it's a pretty cool coincidence.
	I'll, I'll put it that way.
	It tracks asteroids.
	That's right.
	Boom.
	Boom.
	Boom.
	There's an 80s sound noise for you.
	Asteroids was a great game, man.
	Twitchy as hell, but great fun.
	All right.
	Thank you, everyone, so much for dropping by today.
	freedomain.com slash donate.
	If you're listening later to help out the show, I would massively, massively, massively appreciate it.
	And we are aiming, of course, to get the book Peaceful Parenting out.
	It'll probably be out for donors a little bit before, once I've de-bladed some of its scythe-y tentacles.
	But we'll get it out to the general public, certainly for Christmas.
	So, thank you everyone so much!
	Love you guys!
	Thank you for just giving me the greatest life on the planet, and think of all the great good we're doing, not just now, but down through the tunnel of time.
	Your typing will live in immortal infamy, and I appreciate that.
	Thanks everyone!
	Bye!

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