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Jan. 15, 2023 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:49:36

How to STOP Hurting Women - Freedomain Livestream!

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	Yo! Good morning, everybody.
	Hope you're doing well. Thank you for your patience.
	It is time.
	Yes, it's time. We've got some questions.
	We've got answers are coming in.
	And welcome to your Sunday Free Domain experience.
	And I'm going to start with a couple of questions.
	And, of course, if you want to raise your hand, happy to chat.
	Start with a couple of questions here.
	I got this from a listener who said, Dear Steph...
	I hope it's okay to send a question here.
	I'm a long-time listener who was inspired by you to create a philosophical project in Russian.
	It's kind of ironic because in many ways I was inspired to create a philosophical project by Russians back in the day.
	The Russian thinkers always felt a great affinity for Russia and the Russian people and the Russian depth and all of that.
	It goes way back and of course my name is Eastern European and All of that.
	So I guess I'm a slave to the Slavic.
	What can I tell you? So he wrote and he said, What do I do if my wife raises her voice and gets into a fighting mode any time?
	I disagree with her.
	Ah, well, I think every man's been in this situation one time or another, right?
	So he said, We have two baby girls, and I'm sad to see how they absorb our conflicts.
	I make good money, work from home, and can afford to spend lots of time with our babies during the day, and my wife stays at home too.
	I can't convince her to do something about her emotional reactions.
	Prior work with couples therapists didn't help.
	It wasn't that bad before we had the babies.
	We could have disagreements and discussions, but now it's getting worse and worse.
	I'm afraid the rest of my life will be this slow, balls-crushing drip of negativity and my girls will start copying my wife.
	I feel helpless. Thank you for continuing your great work.
	Well, of course, first and foremost, massive sympathies.
	That is a very, very, very, very, very tough situation to be in, and I really, really sympathize.
	That is very, very tough.
	So... When people fight with you in this kind of way, it's important to understand the mechanics of what's going on.
	Now, of course, I don't know objectively, so I don't know in this particular instance, but these are the patterns that I've seen, obviously, as an outside amateur.
	These are the patterns that I've seen over the last, I don't know, five decades or so.
	So, you know, a little bit of experience, a little bit of chatting with people, but this is what I see.
	First of all, don't take it personally.
	Don't take it personally. I know it's odd.
	Riley, your wife is yelling at you or whatever, but don't take it personally.
	She's not fighting with you. Most people, you know, read Ibsen's Ghosts, right?
	Most people are fighting ghosts.
	They're not fighting you. They're not fighting you.
	So bad things happened to your wife when she was little.
	Probably some very bad things happened to your wife when she was little.
	And for one reason or another, and this is really the majority of cases of early childhood trauma...
	These experiences have remained unintegrated.
	And now, unintegrated is one of these useless phrases, so sorry for using it.
	I'll sort of try and break it down a little bit more.
	What does it mean to integrate a bad experience?
	It means that you have learned everything you can from it, and you've allowed it to make you safe.
	Right, so when I was a little kid, we had a dun-dun-dun, a gas stove.
	Was it gas? No, it was electric.
	We had a gas stove later. So when I was a little kid, we had an electric stove...
	And I wanted to butter a piece of toast and I reached onto the stove to grab a knife and it turns out that the knife had been sitting next to one of those electric coils which had been on for a while or had been on before but was now off.
	And I grabbed the knife.
	The knife was super hot and I burned my fingers.
	So what does it mean to integrate that experience?
	It means don't grab things on the stove.
	Don't grab things where there could be a source of heat.
	When I was older, no, younger.
	When I was about four or five, I was walking with my family, my father's family, in Ireland.
	We were on a hike. Get your constitutional in.
	I was on a hike, and I'd been told about nettles, the stinging leaves.
	And I was curious. So I grabbed my finger, my forefinger and my thumb, and...
	I touched the nettle.
	I touched top and bottom. And yes, it stung badly, and I was in pain, and therefore I did not touch nettles again, right?
	Now, if you can imagine that if you touched a nettle as a kid, and for some bizarre reason, you had this drive to keep touching nettles.
	Well, you would then feel kind of anxious.
	You'd feel kind of tense. And you'd get really tense whenever nettles were around, right?
	You'd have to avoid nettles and so on, right?
	And then imagine that you're...
	This is kind of an extended analogy, so bear with me here.
	But then imagine that what happened was your partner, your lover, bought massive nettles into your home.
	And you have this drive to touch nettles, right?
	You know it's going to hurt like hell when you touch nettles.
	Oh my God, there's nettles as far as the eye can see in your flat, your apartment, your home.
	You're going to be in a state of perpetual tension and you're going to be kind of angry at your partner for bringing the nettles in, right?
	So, unintegrated is I touch the nettles.
	I'm no longer afraid of nettles because I know they hurt.
	I'm safe from them because I'm not going to touch them again.
	And so I don't have any concern about nettles.
	I mean, occasionally I'm sure I'll brush up against them or whatever, but I don't have any particular concern about nettles.
	So I'm not afraid of them.
	I don't have any tension around them.
	Okay, so that's one thing. Now...
	To be unintegrated means that you've not learned your lesson and you're not safe.
	So you think of your autonomous nervous system, right?
	What's its job? Its job is to keep you safe.
	And when something hurts you, then the job of your autonomous nervous system is to inflict a negative stimuli upon you until whatever is hurting you stops hurting you or you're away from the situation, like until the threat is removed.
	The anxiety, the negative stimuli, the tension, the anger, the sadness, whatever negative stimuli your system is applying to you is designed to keep occurring until you're safe.
	And then when you're safe, then the negative stimuli stops.
	Right? So then the question is, Why for some people does it continue?
	Well, in general, psychologically speaking, from my amateur opinion, it continues because you're not in a situation of safety.
	You're not in a place of safety. So my good Russian friend, question is, is your wife in a place of security and safety?
	If bad things happen to her when she was a child and she's Russian, so, you know, odds are pretty high for everyone.
	Russians may be slightly higher. So if bad things happen to her when she's a child, has she gotten to a place of safety?
	Has she gotten to a place where bad things are no longer happening to her, where the people who did those bad things have either reformed and become nice or have been exiled?
	Have they gone to Siberia, so to speak?
	So people who did bad things to your wife, have they either reformed and apologized and made amends and now your wife feels safe around them or are they no longer in her life?
	Is she safe? So she's not fighting you.
	Your wife is in a state of fight or flight and can't relax.
	And you said it got worse since the babies came along, the two girls, right?
	Well, if bad things happened to your wife when she was younger, then you have a situation on your hands where the nettles are in the house and your wife can't stop touching them.
	And she's mad at the nettles, she's mad at you, she's mad at the people who caused this trauma to begin with.
	But none of that is unpacked within her mind.
	And you can help her with that.
	But if you take it personally, see, why do we attack people in the present when we're actually angry at people in the past?
	It's really a foundational question in life.
	Why do we attack people in the present when we're really mad at people in the past?
	Well, one sort of central reason why we attack people in the present when we're really mad at people in the past is It's because it gives us relief in the present without threatening the dangers of the past.
	It's easier to get mad at your husband than confront your parents because your husband has relatively little power and your husband being a relatively innocent person in the situation isn't going to abuse you.
	Your husband being a better person, this is why you will generally, if you're dysfunctional, you will generally If you're a woman in particular, you'll generally marry a guy who's better than your parents and then make that guy pay for everything your parents did.
	This is not a moral analysis.
	I'm simply looking at a transactional analysis.
	Because it's easier to get mad at your husband who's nice than to get mad at your parents who aren't, if this is the situation.
	So you're taking it personally and she's trying to drag you into a conflict about inconsequentials so she doesn't have to unpack the actual depths and consequentiality of her early experiences.
	So if the couple's counseling didn't work, I would imagine it's because the couple's counseling focused on what's happening in the present and, you know, you need to negotiate these things ahead of time and you need to have rules to not raise your voice.
	That's all fine. It's all good advice.
	But if it's not dealing with the fundamentals, then you're just putting a condom on the volcano, so to speak, right?
	To really mix my analogy somewhat desperately, right?
	So having these babies around...
	Is she's mad at her mother and now becoming a mother herself, she's very tense because the nettles are inside the house and she can't stop touching them.
	And why can't she stop touching them?
	Because you repeat danger until you learn from it.
	Danger repeats within you, stress tension repeats within you until you learn from it and you get safe.
	And once you get safe, the negative stimuli is removed and you don't have anything to fight with.
	You don't have any need to fight anymore.
	So, she needs to manage you.
	She's mad at the babies and she's tense all the time because it's provoking early trauma within her.
	And the early trauma within her is saying you're still in a situation of danger.
	And the situation of danger, assuming that you're a decent husband, decent father, I'm sure you are, but the situation of danger is having the people who abused her in the past still in her life.
	And the situation of danger, why she's particularly tense since the girls are born, is because if she doesn't resolve the situation of danger, right, let's say she had an abusive mother, if she doesn't resolve the situation of danger, then she's going to become that abusive mother.
	What has hurt us that we don't condemn, we replicate.
	Boom, boom, boom. Simon the Boxer, right, from my free book, Real-Time Relationships.
	You can get that at freedomminder.com slash books for free.
	What has hurt us that we don't condemn, we replicate.
	This is why the way to save the world is to condemn the evildoers of our early histories in that way.
	You know, if you don't come from a bad family, it's the only way to make sure you don't remake that bad family.
	If you come from a bad family, that can be a great set of tools with which to create a great family.
	But you have to condemn.
	You have to condemn the people who hurt you.
	That doesn't mean rage at them.
	That doesn't mean, you know, call them names.
	It certainly doesn't mean use any aggression or violence, but it just simply means within your own mind or in a conversation with them, you condemn them for what they did.
	So once you condemn something as evil, as immoral, as destructive, as traumatic, as abusive, then the line is drawn within you and you're much less likely to reproduce it.
	You've got to talk about her early childhood experiences.
	You've got to talk about how she was harmed when she was young.
	We're trying to fight things at the surface.
	Again, kind of a volcano.
	It doesn't work. And these fights will repeat until she either becomes immoral herself or gains safety from the immoral people in her childhood.
	Yes, okay. Now, I had another comment which I thought was very interesting that I wanted to get into.
	From a lady, said, Hi Steph, you probably won't see this.
	But you know, I'll check on things.
	I'll try to keep my ear to the ground.
	Hey Steph, you probably won't see this, but I just couldn't keep listening to you rant and not say anything.
	Good, good for you. I always like the feedback, alright?
	There was a lot of great stuff in your episode, Why Do Women Get Divorced?
	But there were also two deep misconceptions, one of which I feel you have no right to have, since you yourself have made statements contradicting it in the past.
	Both misconceptions are related to having raised only one child.
	The first is in your disparaging comment that women's work around the house takes four hours a day.
	I believe this was the highest number you offered.
	Yes, I accept that.
	I stand by it. We have five children!
	Okay. Oh, my good friend, my good friend.
	Oh, my gosh.
	This is a straw man. When I say women's work around the house, I'm talking about housework.
	I'm not talking about parenting.
	Housework is different from parenting.
	And we know this for sure because you have housework even when you don't have kids.
	And also, you can be parenting without doing any housework whatsoever.
	So if you take your kids out to the park for the day, you're parenting but you're not doing any housework.
	So housework and parenting are not the same thing.
	So when I talk around the house, I'm talking about housework.
	I'm not talking about parenting.
	So, this is, you know, you're leaping to a conclusion.
	You're creating a straw man.
	Oh, so you're saying that if you have five kids, then your combined housework and parenting is only four hours a day?
	Of course. Of course that's not the case.
	I mean, I've been a stay-at-home dad for 14 years.
	The idea that I think that parenting and all of the work you need to do around the house only amounts to four hours a day.
	Come on. That's a straw man, right?
	It's interesting why you would create this straw man, but let's continue with the comment.
	We have five children, all under nine years old, and we homeschool.
	We also have chickens and a dog.
	My workday begins at 6 a.m.
	and ends at 8 p.m., almost without exception.
	Thankfully, our children have few after-bedtime emergencies.
	It's possible to phone it in on just about any job, and it's possible to spend every waking moment devoted to your job.
	The nature of the work matters little on that score.
	Being a wife is never done.
	You just might get a chance to get some of the items on your never-ending I'll-do-that-when-I-have-the-time list.
	Right. Okay. So, if you have farm animals, that's not housework.
	Are the chickens in the house?
	No, I hope not anyway, right?
	So, that's not housework. I mean, it's like saying, you know, the maximum you can spend on just housework is four hours a day.
	Yes, but I run a farm.
	It's like, well, what does that have to do with what I've said?
	Right? Now, I will fully accept that if you have five kids, there's a lot of laundry to be done.
	But of course, a nine-year-old can help you with the laundry and so on.
	There's more laundry to be done, which is why.
	But laundry is fire and forget, right?
	I'm not saying it doesn't take any time because there's a folding and all the sorting and all.
	But laundry is, you know, you put it in and you go off and do other things.
	And your kids can help and your kids can fold and all that kind of stuff.
	But no, I'll stick by.
	Even if you have five kids, four hours a day of just doing housework.
	It's pretty much the max.
	Now, if you have five kids under the age of five for some reason, right, then I can understand that maybe it would be more.
	So in a very extreme situation, yes, I mean, you've got all the...
	But then with that many kids, you're breastfeeding, so there's fewer meals to prepare and so on, right?
	So, no, I'm going to stick with, you know, you could imagine scenarios where it's more than four hours, but this would be a one in 10,000 kind of situation.
	I have a giant mansion, you know, whatever it is, right?
	So, but, you know, four hours a day of just housework, right?
	That's cleaning, vacuuming, doing the dishes.
	Most people have dishwashers these days.
	It's cooking, and of course, but if you have a big family, what do you do?
	Well, you do what most sane people do with big families is you get a crock pot, you cook a big stew, you get bone broth, you make stuff, a big vat of stuff that you can just keep feeding the kids.
	So you have maybe more than four hours one day to make all of that stuff, but then the remaining days, it's fewer hours, right?
	So the average is out, right?
	So when I say an average, I don't say four hours every day.
	It's an average of four hours. Maybe one day it's five hours, next day it's three hours, whatever, right?
	So, it's interesting to me, and it's very interesting that your perception was that I was saying a woman who's a parent and half running a farm, again, a farm may be an exaggeration because, you know, it's just chickens, right?
	But let's say a woman who has five kids and livestock, this is what you heard.
	What you heard was a woman with five kids and livestock only has to spend four hours a day having anything to do with her family, livestock, and home.
	Now, I mean, this is what's called being triggered.
	You know, I say this with respect, right?
	You're triggered, right? And I'm not offended because you're not triggered by me.
	You're not triggered by me. What you experience is somebody saying, you don't work that hard when you work very hard, right?
	Right? So you say you start at, let me just get this right, you start at 6am, was that right?
	And then you end up at 8pm, right?
	So you're doing 14 hours a day.
	So I'm saying, well, women only work 4 hours a day, no matter what.
	And you're saying, hey man, I work 14 hours a day.
	And, I mean, you can certainly hit that number, but only by adding in things that I didn't talk about at all.
	I mean, do you really think, I'm sorry, I mean, genuinely, if you stop and think about it for a moment, do you really think that over the last 14 years, I've only spent four hours a day cooking, cleaning, parenting, and taking care of ducks? And that I get this, you know, magnificent, you know, I guess that would bring you down to 20, subtract another eight hours for sleep, that I get 12 hours of completely free time.
	Of completely free time every day.
	Do you really think that's the case?
	I mean, if you think, just think about it for a moment.
	Do you really think that I do everything to do with parenting and everything around the home and everything that needs to be done with the ducks and all of that is just four hours a day?
	And for remaining 12 hours, I completely ignore my daughter.
	I don't mean to laugh.
	I'm not laughing at you. This is the power of being defensive, right?
	This is the power of being triggered.
	This is the power of mistaking me for someone in your past.
	So, you know, maybe you feel underappreciated in what you do.
	And listen, you obviously, 14 hours a day, you're working very hard.
	Very hard indeed. And your family is lucky that you're working hard and I hope that they appreciate it.
	I hope they do. I hope they do.
	Now, if you feel underappreciated and you hear me saying, well, you never need to spend more than four hours a day dealing with pets and livestock, and I guess we have ducks which are both pets and livestock, so it's kind of a similar situation.
	Obviously, you have way more kids and all that, but here's the thing, too.
	People think that having one kid It's less work than having more kids.
	That's not necessarily the case.
	Because when you have more kids, they play with each other.
	When you have one kid, when she wants to play, she can only come to you.
	I mean, obviously she has friends in the neighborhood and sometimes they're not always available and all of that.
	And certainly when she was younger, right, we...
	I won't get into the whole community, but there were no kids around because they're all in daycare and there's no kids around.
	So it's not less work in many ways.
	It's more work when you have younger kids, when you have more kids, but it's more work when you have one kid when they're older kids, like from that latency period, right?
	Now she's hanging out with friends a lot more and all that.
	But, you know, from birth until, you know, 13, it was myself, And her mother that Izzy would come to play with, right?
	So again, I enjoyed it, it was great, but they don't cancel each other out, right?
	You can have a bunch of kids going to play in the backyard and yes, you have to watch out for them and you have to negotiate conflicts and so on, but it's not the same as having to be there constantly.
	So this idea that, well, I have more kids, therefore I do more work, not necessarily the case in all circumstances or situations.
	So, this is an example where, again, I don't mean to laugh at you at all.
	I mean, it is funny when you think about it for a moment, just how mad, in a sense, or how outraged you got at me.
	And you were mad at me, right?
	Deep misconceptions you have no right to have.
	Disparaging comment, right?
	So, you think that I'm disparaging women?
	By saying that a woman's work is only four hours a day when you have five kids running a household and have livestock?
	I mean, did you really? This is being triggered, right?
	So you're mad at somebody other than me.
	This sort of dovetails in with the other one, right?
	You're mad at someone other than me.
	But what you do is you get mad at me because it's safer.
	And you know that I'm not going to yell at you.
	I'm not going to call you names.
	I'm not going to write. You know that I'm not even going to get that mad at you.
	I'm not going to get mad at you at all.
	So it's safer to unload your venom, in a sense, than On me, to get mad at me, rather than whoever has genuinely unappreciated you.
	Maybe it's your husband, maybe when you were a kid you did a lot of work around the house and your parents never thanked you or never praised you or never showed any appreciation.
	There's someone who didn't appreciate you.
	And then when I say, just household work, just household work, is max four hours a day on average, then you get mad, right?
	It's easier to get mad at me.
	You think it's about me. You genuinely think it's about me.
	You think it's about something that I said.
	But this willful misinterpretation is important.
	And the reason I'm spending so much time on this is because this willful misinterpretation is very important in your life.
	Because I guarantee you this willful misinterpretation, and by willful I don't mean that it's conscious, but when you get triggered by something that someone else says, if you think it's about what that person says, Well, you're wrong. I mean, we all know the triggered thing, right?
	If you get triggered by something that I say, I guarantee you it's not about me.
	It's not about me.
	If you were unappreciated as a child, and then you feel unappreciated as an adult, you haven't dealt with being unappreciated as a child and integrated that, right?
	Then you will never gain enough appreciation as an adult.
	Asking other people to fill in the wounds left by your parents will turn them and you into ghosts.
	Everyone becomes just a ghost.
	There is no contemporaneous, there's no present-day solution For unprocessed trauma.
	You can't fix it in the present.
	You can't take enough drugs.
	I'm not saying you do, right? I'm just talking to other people.
	You can't take enough drugs. You can't have enough sex.
	You can't have enough money.
	You can't have enough success.
	You can't have enough beauty. You can't have enough talent.
	You can't have enough awards. You can't have anything in the present that will make up for unprocessed wrongs in the past.
	And, you know, approximately 90% of human activity is trying to fill up the holes of the past.
	It doesn't work. It doesn't work.
	Everything you eat just makes you hungry.
	And you get really frantic and frustrated because you keep feeling like you're doing things to fix what's wrong with you, but it just makes everything worse.
	Because you're covering up crimes.
	By expecting the people in the present to fix the wrongs in the past, You are manipulating, you are exploiting people, and you are becoming what hurt you.
	Right? So, if your parents willfully misinterpreted you and took reasonable comments for deep insults, Then that was traumatic for you, and it made you feel like you had to censor yourself, it made you feel bad. And so then, when I say something that triggers you, you get mad at me, just like your parents got mad at you or your teacher or whoever, priest, someone, right?
	So, I find it interesting.
	It's a very interesting example and observation of what can go wrong in human communication.
	And, of course, what you're doing, I mean, at the surface level, you're correcting me on something really disparaging that I said and you're outraged and blah, blah, blah.
	You're feeling all kind of high and mighty in your virtues.
	But, you know, I tell you what you're doing deep down.
	Just so you know. I mean, I'll put on the bath escape and let's go down, right?
	So, I'll tell you what you're doing deep down.
	Is you begging me to point this out?
	Because this is a claustrophobic trap in your environment.
	You chose to get married.
	You chose to have five children under the age of nine.
	You chose to have chickens.
	How dare you feel overworked for the choices that you voluntarily made?
	How dare you martyr yourself?
	Well, I have to get up at 6 in the morning.
	I have to go to bed at 8 o'clock.
	I don't get done until 8 o'clock.
	How dare you feel like a victim for every single choice that you've made?
	Like, imagine how absurd it would be if I were training to run a marathon.
	And I got angry at people because, you know, I have to get up at six o'clock in the morning and I have to run straight for two hours every day and then I have to stretch and then I have to take protein powders and then I have to massage my legs and I have to do all these things.
	I can't believe you're disparaging the amount of work that I do.
	I do so much work.
	People will be like, what are you talking about?
	You want to run a marathon?
	This is what you have to, like, you have to train to run a marathon.
	I mean, what are you talking about? You're a victim, you're hard done by, you're unappreciated.
	How dare I play the victim for choices that I make to run a marathon?
	Now, I can say, you know, I really want to run this marathon, but there are times where it feels like, blech, I don't want to get up at six in the morning and pound pavement for three hours.
	I understand that. But that's not playing the victim.
	That's just saying in any big goal, there are times when it's not easy.
	There are times when it's unpleasant. But if you martyr yourself for the choice to have five children, you're saying that those children are a punishment, are a negative. Listen, I think it's wonderful that you chose to have five children.
	Fantastic. Good for you.
	That's a lot of life to bring into this world.
	That's a huge legacy to leave behind.
	Fantastic. And your homeschooling.
	Good for you. Good for you on every conceivable level.
	And there are times, I get it, there are times where it feels very tough.
	And nobody's saying you can't talk about those times where it feels very tough.
	When the kids are making a lot of noise and you have a headache and they won't listen.
	I get it. There are times when it's tough.
	I understand that. I sympathize.
	I really do. Because there are times in any grand endeavor when it's tough.
	I mean, I had my life's work ripped away from me.
	Did you hear me play the victim?
	Did you? These are all choices I made.
	I knew the risks of talking about controversies.
	I won't play the victim.
	You ever hear me complain about my marriage?
	You ever hear me complain about parenting?
	All the injustices in the world.
	I'll get angry at her from time to time, but I won't play the victim.
	And how dare you claim to be a victim of all the choices that you voluntarily made?
	That means that you are victimizing yourself.
	You're saying that, oh, I've got all this work to do.
	Yeah, you do. You absolutely do.
	Because of all the choices you made, and you make that choice every day to stay in the situation.
	How dare you feel burdened by the life you created?
	How dare you?
	Think of all the couples who can't have kids.
	Think of all the people who don't have the energy to work as hard as you do because they're injured by something or other or have an illness.
	You have the vitality and energy to get up and do that work every day.
	And that cloud of victimhood, that cloud of self-pity, that cloud of woe is me, is following you around all the time and is clouding and making claustrophobic the entire aura and air around you.
	You come punching at me?
	For a completely made-up argument in order to portray yourself as a victim?
	I mean, how dare you?
	And I say how dare you not because it's so appalling what you did.
	I just want to shock you out of this.
	You know, you've got this Saturn's ring of self-pity all around you that's clouding up your entire existence.
	Look at your language.
	We have five children.
	No, you don't have five children.
	It's like saying, I have a tattoo.
	No, you chose to have a tattoo.
	You chose to get tattooed.
	You chose to have five children.
	We have five children all under nine years old.
	That's not a curse inflicted on you because you disturbed an ancient mummy's tomb.
	We have five children all under nine years old, and we homeschool.
	We also have chickens and a dog.
	What do you mean you have? These are all things you chose.
	Think about this. Out of love for my husband and life, I'm thrilled to have five children.
	And because I want my children to grow up healthy and happy, I've chosen to homeschool.
	Because chickens and a dog make me, my husband and my children happy, I'm overjoyed to have them.
	My work day begins at 6am and ends at 8pm.
	It's not a work day.
	It's not a work day. See, work is what you do to get money.
	And other than a couple of eggs from your chickens, nothing that you've talked about makes any money at all.
	Homeschooling, does it make you any money?
	Do you get paid for homeschooling?
	You do not. Raising five children, does it make you any money?
	Do you get paid for raising those children from outside your family?
	No, it's not a work day.
	It's not a work day. Going to work is what you do to get paid to pay your wife to homeschool your five kids and raise chickens and a dog.
	It's not a work day. The fact that you would think of something that you voluntarily chose to do that costs money, that that's a work situation?
	No. I mean, you can distort the word, right?
	Oh, parenting is work. It's like, well, I mean, I don't know what to say.
	Exercising is work. Dusting the closets is work.
	Cleaning the toilets is work.
	Yes, but then there's going to work.
	Being a worker. Work is doing things that get you paid from the outside world.
	I mean, unless you're massively self-sufficient.
	I'm talking about the general situation, right?
	It's not a work day. You don't have a paid job.
	You're a mother and a homemaker and an educator, which is wonderful.
	And I'm not disparaging any of that stuff.
	I think it's wonderful. But someone's paying for all of that.
	I assume your husband.
	Somebody's paying for all of that.
	And you chose. Five kids, chickens, and a dog.
	You chose all of that. You wanted all of that.
	And the idea that we're victimized by our own choices is one of the great delusions and one of the great barriers to happiness in this life.
	Are you enslaved by what you chose?
	By definition, absolutely not.
	Are you enslaved by what you chose?
	Absolutely not.
	You could say, ah, yes, but I chose to do drugs.
	Now I'm enslaved. It's like, well, if you're physically addicted, then it's less of a choice now, but it was a choice at the beginning.
	It was a choice to take those drugs.
	It was a choice to keep taking those drugs.
	You cannot be enslaved by what you voluntarily chose.
	You cannot be oppressed by what your free will voluntarily pursued.
	People who feel enslaved by their free will are like metaphysically incomprehensible to me.
	I cannot understand the brain pretzels that people twist themselves in to feel enslaved by their voluntary choices.
	I am a victim of what I chose.
	I am a martyr to my free will.
	What I voluntarily Pursued and created is enslaving me.
	I don't understand.
	I genuinely have no clue what this means in any fundamental philosophical or rational sense.
	What does it mean?
	If you're an athlete, And you won a gold medal in the Olympics and you have to train.
	Michael Phelps was doing what?
	Six days a week, one rest.
	I don't know what he was doing, right? Other than taking money for Pfizer to shill.
	So is he enslaved by his training schedule?
	No. Again, there are times when it feels annoying.
	I'm not enslaved by choosing to exercise.
	I try to get at least eight hours of exercise in a week.
	And that's a little more than I need for optimum health, but I'm an older parent.
	I want to be around to see grandkids.
	So... And there are times where I don't feel like exercising.
	I really don't. Especially in the winter.
	Bike machine in the basement, right?
	There are times when I don't want to exercise.
	And I'll grumble when I show it, blah, blah, blah, right?
	But the idea that I would get angry at someone.
	Well, you know, I have to exercise eight hours a week.
	How dare you not appreciate that?
	Like, I don't, you don't have to have, you don't have to be a mom.
	I'm glad that you are.
	Not suggesting you don't, but you don't have to.
	You didn't have to be a mom. You chose all of that.
	You don't have to have a dog.
	You don't have to have chickens. You don't have to homeschool.
	I'm glad you are. Don't get me wrong.
	But these are all choices. And the reason I'm grinding at you like a pepper grinder in a restaurant or a cheese grater on your ass cheeks, the reason I'm grinding at you is, my God, how can you be happy if you feel victimized by your choices?
	How could you possibly be happy ever in any situation under any circumstances if you feel victimized by what you freely chose?
	I don't understand it.
	I don't understand.
	Why would you choose to self-slaughter your own capacity for joy by feeling like you're unjustly imprisoned in a work camp of your own voluntary choices?
	Snap out of it, sister!
	Snap out of it!
	You are manifested by your choices.
	Your life is made glorious by your choices.
	You are who you are because of your choices.
	Your children are because of your choices.
	You are surrounded by life because of your choices.
	It's not a work day.
	It's work to exercise, but I don't get paid.
	In fact, it costs money to exercise.
	Got to have the equipment. It costs money to exercise.
	Am I a victim of the need to exercise?
	No, I choose to exercise.
	You chose all of this.
	My God! Why would you feel victimized by everything you chose?
	Boy, that old me was a real tyrant.
	Put me in the prison of kids and homeschooling.
	Oh, I can't believe it. I guess I did something bad in the past life.
	Got sentenced to the exact life I chose right now.
	Oh my God! Oh!
	I mean, you feel underappreciated and you feel I'm disparaging you in some strange alternate universe.
	You feel underappreciated because you underappreciate yourself.
	See, if you think that you're a victim of your prior choices, no amount of appreciation from others in the moment is going to fix that.
	It's going to make you feel better. You'll continually feel a victim and underappreciated, no matter what anybody else says.
	All choices.
	All choices. Nobody forced you.
	No gun to your head. Nobody forced you to get a dog.
	Nobody forced you to have five kids.
	Nobody forced you to get chickens.
	Nobody forced you to homeschool.
	I mean, you could say that there's pretty strong arguments for it, and I'd agree with those, but still a choice.
	You're not in a concentration camp.
	You're not in a gulag. You're not in prison.
	You're not kidnapped. You're not sold into slavery.
	You're not in a webcam house in Bulgaria.
	Right? So you keep talking about your job.
	It's possible to phone it in on just about any job.
	And it's possible to spend every working moment with your job.
	Work. The nature of the work.
	My job. No.
	It's not a job. This is a celebration.
	Now, your husband, I assume, has to work pretty hard to provide for five kids, chickens, you, and a dog.
	Again, these are all the results of his choice.
	I've had jobs and I've been a parent.
	Anybody who thinks that being a parent is like having a job is fooling themselves.
	Again, I'm talking about, you know, if you have kids who are deathly ill or, you know, have some significant issues, that may be a different matter.
	I'm talking about the average, right? You know, I had lots of jobs over the course of my life.
	Not one of them was as much fun or even close to being as rewarding as parenting.
	Not even close. So, then she says, your second misconception is about the behavior of children.
	You yourself have said children will try every strategy to try to get what they want.
	Yeah, children are amoral resource seekers when they're very little.
	It's exactly what we want them to be.
	This is exactly correct.
	Children are creative, and they will think of things to try that have not been modeled for them.
	If a child screams at you, it doesn't mean that it was modeled.
	It means they're trying that strategy to see what happens.
	Well, I don't know. I mean, if your children see you feeling like a martyr and a victim for all of your choices, that's humiliating to them.
	I mean, listen, just so you understand how you're landing for your children, in my opinion, imagine your husband comes home and says, oh my God, being married to you is work.
	It just never ends.
	Being married to you is just endless work.
	It's a job. I never get to the things that I want to do.
	It's just, it's so much work being married to you.
	Starts at six o'clock in the morning, doesn't end till ten o'clock at night.
	Being married to you is work.
	And I feel like a victim of the work and the job and the labor of being married to you.
	How would you feel about that, hmm, my friend?
	My sister of the universe, how would you feel about your husband saying that being married to you was just work and a drudge and labor?
	And he never got to the things that he wanted to do.
	It was non-stop, morning till night, work, work, work, being married to you.
	Being around you, spending time in your presence was just work.
	How would you feel? How would you feel?
	Would you feel loved? Would you feel treasured?
	Would you feel honored? Would you feel respected?
	Would you feel adored?
	No. You would take that as a deeply grave insult.
	You'd be highly offended.
	Now, do you understand?
	If you view motherhood Homemaking.
	Homeschooling. As a job.
	As labor. As work.
	Then you're saying exactly that to your kids.
	Exactly how upset you'd be if your husband said, Oh my God, being married to you is just work.
	It's so much work.
	I never get to the things that I want to do.
	It's non-stop work.
	Being married to you, it's a job.
	Well, that's exactly how your kids feel.
	Guarantee you that. If you view motherhood and homemaking and homeschooling as a job that never ends and you never get to do the things that you want to do.
	Sorry, I'm paraphrasing a little.
	I don't want to strawman you.
	I just checked. The text is, being a wife is never done.
	You just might get a chance to get to some of the items in your never-ending, I'll do that when I have the time list.
	So I want to rephrase that to be fair.
	I don't know how many of these.
	I'll do that when I have the time.
	Maybe that's just more chores.
	Maybe it's things like you want to paint or you want something.
	I don't know whether that's all the things that you want to do or other things, probably a mixture of the two.
	So I want to clarify that.
	Apologies for if I misstated it.
	Would you feel angry at your husband if he said that being married to you was just work and a job and a drudge?
	you Of course you would. You'd be very angry at him.
	You'd be very hurt. Because he's not saying to you, being married to you is the greatest privilege of my life.
	I feel that about my, I mean, being married to my wife is the greatest privilege of my life.
	Never a job.
	There's a meme, sort of like a little short video meme.
	I don't remember the first part, but it's about, you know...
	My husband, when we were first married, you know, hey, great to see you.
	How wonderful. Let's spend time together.
	My husband now, and it's a guy walking by, I do not have the energy or time for you today.
	I do not have the energy to handle your shit today.
	Right? That's become a job.
	It's become, he's a victim, right?
	My God. So you'd feel very hurt and angry at your husband if you felt like a martyr and entrapped and enslaved by being married to you.
	How do your kids feel when you feel like a helpless, laboring victim because you're a mother?
	They're hurt and they're angry, in my opinion.
	So even if they've never been yelled at, you don't think they're going to yell when they're hurt and angry because their mother feels like raising them is just work and a job?
	I just never get to the list of the things when I have time.
	So you say, if a child screams at you, it doesn't mean that it was mottled.
	It means that they're trying that strategy to see what happens.
	No, because my daughter has never screamed at me.
	She's never yelled at me. She's never had a tantrum.
	So, no. Empirically incorrect.
	Because what you're saying is that all children will try screaming at their parents.
	My daughter never did. Never once.
	So, if you're a good parent, you don't let bad strategies work.
	But if your child has siblings, particularly young siblings, you can't expect that they're going to have the maturity to not let screaming or stealing or hitting work on them.
	The complications become huge.
	Well, yeah, I hear what you're saying.
	But look, I don't talk out of my ass.
	And do you not think that I have friends who have multiple children?
	Do you not think that I've studied those families in great detail and talked to my friends about that?
	Do you think I'm just sitting there going, well, I have one kid.
	So I'm going to make all the statements.
	I have friends who have four children.
	I have friends who have five children.
	I spend a lot of time with them.
	Do you not think that I've ever looked at children, multiple child families, in order...
	Do you think I'm just looking at my one kid and spinning all my theories out about that?
	Come on, man. Do you have any respect at all?
	I'm not talking about respect for me, but respect for yourself.
	I have friends who have four children.
	I have never seen those children be mean to each other.
	I have friends who have five children.
	Never seen those children be mean to each other.
	I mean, there are conflicts here and there, but nothing major.
	A friend of mine has three brothers.
	He has three brothers close in age.
	They all support each other.
	They all help each other. I've seen them at the playground.
	I played with them directly. There's no screaming.
	There's no violence. There's no sitting on kids.
	There's no holding kids down. There's no, you know, holding the food above the little kids so he can't get it.
	None of that. They're peaceful parents.
	And that's how it plays.
	So when people say to me, well, I have multiple kids.
	Unlike you, I have multiple kids.
	And therefore, right?
	No. No, I've seen all this.
	I have friends with two kids, three kids, four kids, and five kids.
	And the ones with five kids are thinking about a sixth.
	So, you know, I spend lots of time, lots of time with these people.
	I've known them for many, many years.
	Thank you.
	So the idea that I'm just talking about the mono kid family of my own, I don't know.
	It's just kind of funny, right? All right.
	And as a parent, you absolutely have to be willing to use force against your kids to defend your other kids.
	If I can pick my son up and carry him away from sitting on his brother because I'm bigger and stronger.
	Oh, I can. Not only is it acceptable for me to take advantage of that fact, it is absolutely critical.
	I would be a delinquent parent if I sat there and tried to reason with my two-year-old while my 10-month-old whimpered under him.
	Please abandon this dogma you have that it's always bad for a parent to use the fact that they are bigger and stronger than their children.
	It is an important tool, and advising parents to put themselves at the mercy of their young children is terrible!
	See, I'm terrible. There's a time and a place I'm happy to debate this topic with you if you still think you are correct.
	Absolutely, yeah, call in for sure.
	Call in at freedomain.com.
	Let's talk. Thank you for all of your wisdom, which, as you know, is extensive.
	So, as far as I understand it, your children are seeing you use force to get what you want.
	And remember, they don't understand the ethics of these things, right?
	Because you've got a 10-month-old, 2-year-old, right?
	It's really tough for them to get abstract ethics in general, right?
	So, your kids see you willing to use violence to get what you want, willing to use being bigger and stronger to get what you want, and boy, as it turns out, the older kids are using their size and strength to get what they want.
	So, I mean, that's just the pattern that you unleash, right?
	I don't really do much about that other than commit to stopping that.
	All right, let's see here.
	Any other questions, comments?
	I'm not talking to somebody else, no.
	Let's see here. And listen, I sympathize.
	It can feel overwhelming.
	I sympathize.
	And I'm not trying to make you like a bad guy or anything like that.
	Like, I truly sympathize that there are times when you've got, you know, five kids and you've got a dog and you've got chickens and you're homeschooling.
	Like, absolutely. You have...
	You've surrendered a lot of choices in the choices you've made, right?
	You know, when I started defending kids from abuse, I ended up surrendering my entire business career.
	Right? Because I couldn't go back into business after these, you know, the cult leader articles and stuff like that.
	I would have been pretty tough. So, yeah, I mean, I removed, you know, I've been in the business world for, I don't know, forever, and I've been a successful entrepreneur in the business world forever.
	And, yeah, I made the choice to defend kids, and that choice resulted in pretty ugly articles about me.
	And that meant, you know, because everyone Googles, right?
	That meant my business career was done.
	And... Still not a victim.
	Still not a victim.
	Hey Steph, how do you think the death of the boomers over the next two decades is going to affect the economy?
	The economy? Two decades?
	Are you kidding? Two decades for our economy?
	Oh, I would not, I don't think we're going to have anything close to what we have now in two decades.
	It's just not sort of physically possible.
	All right, if you have questions or comments, nice to see so many people on a Sunday.
	If you have questions, comments, issues, criticisms, if you wish to disagree with me or correct me on anything, always happy to be corrected.
	Then you can raise your hand, and I'm happy to hear, happy to have a conversation.
	I know some people want to chat, so just raise your hand, and I will do my best to find you in the list of people, and we can have a chitty chat.
	All right, we have someone born.
	You just have to unmute, and I'm happy to hear.
	Hey, Stefan. Hello, hello.
	Hey, we talked once before.
	I don't know if you remember.
	Not just by the voice, but I'm certainly happy to hear what's on your mind.
	Yeah, so despite the many advices which I follow over these many years, I met with a woman who shares almost none of my values.
	For some reason, I expected that her visiting me might be romantic, but it turned out that apparently 9 out of 10 women will travel just to have a weekend of sex with a guy she met twice.
	And I don't know.
	I didn't like the energy of all of it and so on.
	I also kind of maybe attacked a big game but failed to deliver on some things.
	And basically she packed up and left.
	And now I'm kind of feeling crushed.
	And maybe I need, I don't know, a constructive critique or a pep talk or some wisdom from a man I greatly admire.
	Well, thanks. Hopefully we can be of help.
	What's your rough age range?
	Around 30. So around 30 and you, of course, I assume you met this woman online, right?
	Yeah. We met on Bumble, which is like a dating app.
	Okay. And was she far away from you physically, like geographically?
	So she is a digital nomad.
	She had a massive fight with her parents and now she is basically just going from city to city.
	She was in my city the first time we met, which was a couple of years ago.
	The date was pretty great.
	I really felt a connection.
	And afterwards, we stayed in touch, but I noticed that she deleted her dating app.
	So I kind of thought that she is out of that sort of thing.
	So I kind of had, I guess, different expectations.
	Okay, so you've met her a couple of years ago or you've been in touch for a couple of years?
	Yeah, we went on two dates when she was in my city.
	And she travels around, right?
	Okay. Yeah.
	And in what way do your values deviate?
	Well... Basically, I would say that I want a family.
	I want kids.
	I'm kind of patriotic.
	I'm kind of tied to my identity, my ethnicity.
	I am very proud of my wider circle of ancestry and so on.
	While she doesn't talk to both of her parents, she has expressed the view that her own native tongue is cringe and not appealing.
	She has a preference for exotic-looking men.
	I am not an exotic-looking guy, but let's say that I belong to a niche subculture, and she doesn't want kids, and she's kind of a nihilist, while you can ask me what's the meaning of life and everything, and I will give you some pretty straight answers, I guess.
	Okay, so I'm trying to understand what the issue is.
	So she doesn't want kids, you want kids, but you decided to date her, right?
	Yeah. Okay, so you don't want kids?
	No, no, no. I want kids, but I dated some, admittedly, a lot younger girls who didn't want kids, but true don't.
	Dating me, they changed their opinions.
	So why didn't you have kids with those younger girls then?
	Well, to cut through all of the BS, because I always thought that I can do better, and I was never ready to settle down, which looking retro...
	Hang on, so you just wanted to keep having sex with new girls, right?
	Not really.
	I would consistently see women who are incredibly beautiful and think to myself, if I'm dating that woman right now, I would propose to her.
	I have no idea what that sentence means.
	So you would date a beautiful woman and you'd say, I would propose to her?
	What? I don't understand.
	What does that mean? I would be dating a girl who has many of the qualities which...
	My brain tells me that are very good and desirable and so on, like purity and chastity and low body count, etc.
	But they would be like 6 out of 10 or something like that.
	Wait, sorry, you mean in terms of looks?
	Yes. So you would have sex with these women who were mostly virginal or pure, you'd have sex with them, you'd convince them to have children, and then you would dump them.
	I wouldn't dump them, I would more sort of just, like, I would basically be a shitty boyfriend and they would dump me.
	Oh, you'd passive-aggressively dump them.
	So you'd torture them and then the relationship would end.
	If I have this incorrect, obviously correct me, but that's what I'm hearing.
	I wouldn't say that I would torture them.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	Dude, dude, of course you're torturing them.
	If you're an older man and you say you want to have kids, you convince them that they should also want to have kids, then they're thinking of getting married to you, obviously, right?
	Because you would only convince a woman to have kids if you wanted to have kids with her, right?
	Well, yeah. Okay, so you are convincing them that you're going to be their husband and the father of their children, and then you just progressively treat them worse and worse and worse until the relationship ends, right?
	Which is a really terrible way to break up with someone, right?
	I wouldn't treat them worse.
	You said you would be a shitty boyfriend until the relationship ended.
	Well, maybe I am being a bit hard on myself there.
	Like, I like to own up to everything that I believe that I can change.
	So I believe that I could have been better.
	I don't think...
	No, I'm going to go with what you said.
	I'm going to go with what you said.
	You said. I said you dumped them.
	You said, no, well, I didn't dump them.
	I was just a shitty boyfriend until it ended.
	Well, maybe I can give you an example of what happened.
	Okay, so this was a potential marriage.
	So I met her.
	She was a virgin, but she had a bunch of I mean, I don't know if that keeps a woman a virgin, but she was sexually abused a couple of times.
	But, like, she never had consensual...
	No, of course, that means, I mean, sorry, that means that, I mean, it means that she's a virgin and that she's not chosen, because a virgin is a choice, right?
	But anyway, go on. Yeah, okay, yeah.
	Yeah, so she was, let's say, emotionally a virgin, and she really, like, felt for me, like, she said that I was the first, like, her first everything, like, yeah.
	But she did have a bunch of baggage.
	She would go to the therapist, and then she would do, like, Therapist shopping, she ended up with a therapist who just said everything she wanted to hear.
	Her circle of friends are like leftists, some even like far left and so on.
	These people were constantly working against us.
	She would have some sort of breakdowns, mood swings, and so on.
	I'm not saying that she is a terrible person, but there were a lot of challenges.
	And for the longest time, I was extremely patient with her.
	I would listen to five or six hours to her one rant about some random situation with her mom and so on.
	But when the corona lockdowns happened, it was a really hard time for me.
	And I have to admit that I believe that I am a good speaker and I didn't make a public speech for basically a year and a half.
	I started losing my confidence.
	I started losing my mojo.
	A neighbor moved in above me.
	He is always loud.
	I couldn't sleep. The circumstances were terrible.
	And I believe that what she got used to with me, I just couldn't deliver.
	I do have to say that I noticed that I am becoming a shitty boyfriend and that I'm just being useless.
	And that we are starting to drift away.
	But I couldn't find the inner strength to fix that.
	This only remedied when the lockdowns ended and I slowly started getting out of my shell, I guess.
	At one moment, she really needed me.
	We couldn't see each other because of the distance.
	It was a sort of a long distance relationship in parts, but we did visit a bunch of times.
	And she, like, put her foot down.
	She said, like, this can just go on like this.
	I really need you.
	I want to move into your city.
	And she wanted to, like...
	Quit her job, move here.
	Her mood and whole presentation at that time was giving me a lot of red flags.
	For example, she voiced some suicidal thoughts.
	It looked like she is burning all of her bridges with her environment.
	And maybe I was a chicken.
	Maybe I chickened out because I sort of got afraid, like, what am I getting myself into?
	What if she is like completely reliant on me?
	Like, can I deal with this?
	At some point, she wanted to stop going to psychological therapy and said something like, all I need is you.
	And Stefan, as much as that strokes my ego and feels good to hear, I don't think that I am all that equipped to deal with it.
	Okay, sorry. I've given you a good chunk of time, so I just hear COVID made me depressed and I became a bad boyfriend.
	Okay, so how many women have you slept with?
	About, it depends what you count, but let's say about eight or nine.
	And what do you mean what you count?
	I'm not talking about full intercourse.
	Okay, how many women have you dated?
	And I don't mean just one date where you didn't like each other, but, you know, dated for a couple of weeks or more.
	Maybe like 15.
	15. Okay.
	And when the relationship ended, who in general – there's usually a pattern, right?
	So who in general ended the relationships?
	Okay. So this is a little bit of a complicated – No, no, no.
	I've given you complication.
	No, no. I'm just in general.
	In general, who was the one – like in this case, she wanted to move in and you were her everything and she'd really bonded with you, right?
	Okay. And as a former victim of sexual abuse, that can be quite a challenging thing, right?
	Because obviously her bond was shattered when she was a kid, and then her bond with you was shattered again, so not too honorable on your part.
	So when you were in the relationships, in general, who wanted to end it?
	Uh, her. Her.
	Like, we would...
	No, no, not her in particular.
	I'm talking about the 15 women.
	In general, did the 15 women want to...
	Did you want to break up with them as a whole?
	Because you said you thought you could do better, or did they want to break up with you as a whole?
	I would say half-half.
	Okay. Got it.
	Got it. Okay, so you're proud of your culture, you're proud of your ancestors, you're proud of your country and your ethnicity and so on, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	By having all of these relationships that don't work out, are you helping the women of your culture and your country or not?
	Well, probably not necessarily.
	Well, no, definitely not. Yeah, definitely not, right?
	I mean, your culture and your ancestors, again, you don't have to tell me your ethnicity.
	It doesn't really matter. You could be rainbow-colored for all I care.
	But did your ancestors, did they, in general, just date around a lot, break a lot of girls' hearts, have your heart broken too, and never settle down and always think that there could be something better?
	Is that how they built the culture that you want to defend?
	Of course not.
	So you don't love your culture?
	Because if you're doing the opposite of what built your culture, you don't love your culture.
	Well, that's a nice reply to me.
	Well, if I'm wrong, I mean, I'm certainly happy to be corrected.
	But if you're wrong...
	I wouldn't say that I am that promiscuous.
	I would say that I do try to date women.
	No, no, no. Hang on, hang on.
	Hang on, hang on. Promiscuous is somewhat subjective.
	Certainly dating 15 girls by the age of 30 or in your 30s, that's promiscuous.
	But the question is, is it relative to the cultural standards that you admire?
	In other words, it's not whether I or...
	Would your ancestors consider you promiscuous to have dated 15 girls, slept with maybe half of them, never settled down?
	Would they consider that promiscuous, the culture and the ancestors that you admire?
	Well, probably not.
	They would not think it was promiscuous to still be unmarried in your 30s and dating women who don't want kids, right?
	Both of my grandpas and grandmas got the very young traditional marriage.
	So your ancestors would consider you promiscuous, right?
	A failure. Yeah, they would consider me a failure in that regard.
	Yeah, because your culture, I assume, grew strong, as all cultures do, with people who get married relatively young, who don't date around a lot.
	Because, look, you can survive.
	Here's the thing. You can survive dating around a lot, a lot more than women can.
	That's right. Right, you understand that, right?
	I mean, men, we're more, are selected in a way because we invest much less into offspring, right?
	Into having offspring. So the women that you're dating, you're hurting them more than you're getting hurt.
	Probably, yeah. So it's kind of like, you know, my wife is, you know, five foot two and 110 pounds or whatever, right?
	So if I say to her, I want you to help me lift this heavy piece of machinery, right?
	Who's more likely to put out?
	Who's more likely to hurt her back?
	Yeah, I get you.
	So you're sitting there saying, hey, you know, it's equal, man.
	I'm lifting this half of the heavy machinery and the 5'2", 110-pound girl is also lifting the heavy piece of machinery.
	It's equal. But it's not equal because you're more robust physically, right?
	Yeah. So, if you're dating the women within your culture, and then kind of breaking their hearts, and listen, for women, every relationship that doesn't work out breaks their heart a little.
	Now, we men, we can step over these bodies and move on with relative impunity.
	But for women, it breaks their heart.
	And we know this, right?
	I mean, the data is pretty clear.
	The more partners a woman has, the more likely she is to divorce because she loses her capacity to pair bond, right?
	Yep. So you are contributing to family disintegration within your culture.
	Because you're one of the bodies that the woman has to step over that kills her pair bonding and raises the possibility significantly that she's going to divorce her husband or not pair bond with her husband, right?
	Yeah. And, you know, you've been a listener for a while.
	We've talked before. I assume I can be fairly blunt.
	And these are just my opinions.
	I have some data behind it.
	So, aren't you wrecking your culture a little bit?
	Well, probably I'm not, like, enhancing the old traditional order.
	No, that's not what I'm saying.
	Not enhancing it would be to be a monk, right?
	No, because then you're not enhancing it, but you're not harming it, right?
	But dating women, convincing them to have children, and then breaking up with them, or acting in such a way that they end up breaking up with you, which is a really cowardly way to do it, in my opinion.
	Yeah. But getting women to pair bond with you and then breaking that pair bond is harming your culture.
	It is. And you're using your strengths against a woman's weakness.
	I'll tell you this, man.
	Deep down, every woman who sleeps with a man is programming herself to be his wife and bear his children.
	That's the expectations.
	And guys, you need to understand this about women.
	And we can understand, like, it's not like our evolutionary psychology has adapted to birth control or the welfare state or anything like that.
	Every time a woman sleeps with a man, her body is programmed to be his wife and bear his children.
	That's the bonding that occurs.
	Now, if you think right deep down at the level of the uterus, right, right, right, right deep down, right?
	What's going on? Well, right deep down, they're like, oh, okay, so we're having sex, and it doesn't even have to be vaginal sex or whatever, full intercourse, but we're having sex.
	That means we're pair-bonded and a baby's on the way.
	That's what the body prepares for, right?
	Now then, if the man vanishes, if the man leaves, if the man breaks up, well, that didn't happen throughout most of our history, unless there was a war.
	Or some significant violence.
	Because if it was starvation, then the body would be experiencing that too, right?
	So the reason why women lose their ability to pair bond is that they pair bond very deeply with the act of sex.
	And when the man vanishes, their body assumes he's been killed.
	So when we break up, we have sex with women, we break up with women, we're making a trail of widows, right?
	Deep down in their body.
	And then they can't pair bond because every man gets killed.
	I mean, if there was some serial killer, take an extreme example, right?
	If there was some serial killer who murdered every girl you dated, you'd pretty much stop dating and lose the ability to pair bond, right?
	And this is why successful culturists Try to get women into stable married relationships pretty early on.
	Because that way, their bodies don't process the endless deaths of the fathers of their children, which is, you know, deeply traumatic.
	And there's a reason why, you know, women are on antidepressants and women are anxious.
	We're basically putting them through serial widowhood at a deep emotional level or a deep physical level.
	Now, if you understand this, then you can stop taking this vengeance out on women for whatever reason.
	So my guess is, and I'm sorry if I don't recall our particular conversation in detail, but my guess is that a woman exercised power over you when you were young, probably a mother.
	She was stronger, you were weaker, and that harmed you.
	And so now you're leveraging your strength, which is the ability to survive, and Sexual relationships that end.
	You're levering your strength against women's weakness because in the past a woman's strength was leveraged against your probably childhood weakness.
	So there's just vengeance.
	Women hurt me. A woman hurt me.
	So now I'm going to hurt women.
	I'm going to use them.
	I'm going to convince them to have children and then I'm not going to commit to them.
	I'm going to let them labor under the impression that I want to have kids with them because I'm convincing them to have kids.
	And then I'm going to dump them or be bad or it's not going to work out.
	And you're getting your vengeance, right?
	Now, the problem is, of course, that these women are not the women who hurt you.
	So it's unjust. And if a woman hurt you when you were a kid, you're going around hurting women by having sex with them and dumping them or whatever that's happening.
	You are kind of becoming a negative person and your mom actually wins when you do this, right?
	When you take vengeance against women for your mom being bad, your mom wins.
	Because she's continuing to harm you even though she doesn't have any power over you and she's continuing to harm other women and your culture and your history and everything you respect about your ethnicity and your country all being harmed.
	She just continues to win.
	The way you win against a cruel person is not through exploitation of women.
	It's through love, through pair bonding, through monogamy.
	I'm really reaching far out on the diving board here, but let me know if it makes any sense.
	It definitely does make sense.
	I will say that basically the basic gist of what you have said has made a sort of an epiphany a long time ago because I basically figured that I should have just married my first girlfriend when I was like 21.
	I mean, she literally like After I broke up with her, like maybe two months later, she got the boyfriend who is now her husband.
	Well, and meanwhile, now you're in hot pursuit of women you despise, right?
	Like this woman who's a nihilist and antinatalist.
	I mean, you despise her, right?
	Yes. Right.
	So your wooing of her is an act of aggression, it's not an act of love.
	In other words, you're going to harm her by having sex with her, which harms her more than you, out of contempt.
	I'm pretty sure that woman had hundreds of partners.
	Right. So please get checked for STDs.
	Oh, we actually both got checked and exchanged, like, data, the vaccination data about the HEPV and HEPA and HPV and everything.
	So, I mean, that's sloppy two hundredths, right?
	I'm not aware what that expression means.
	Oh, sloppy seconds is a sexual term.
	Sloppy two-hundredths or hundredths or whatever, right?
	Right. And so, you know, so if you care about your culture, then having sex with a woman who is the opposite of your culture, it just tells me that you absolutely don't have any respect for your culture.
	Sorry, go ahead. She's even a foreigner from West.
	Right. No, I remember when I was in 1999, I had a big business trip in China and then I went straight to Morocco where I spent Y2K toodling around Morocco with a friend of mine and met this woman.
	She was really charming and funny and pretty.
	I was single. And, you know, she very clearly expressed the desire to either have a fling or an affair or, you know, we could travel together for a bit or whatever, right?
	But she was a communist. Now, I don't think she was a very serious communist.
	But I had to say no.
	I had to say no. And it was not easy.
	I'd been single for a little while at that point.
	So I had to say no.
	I can't have any respect for my values if I bet the opposite.
	And I can't exactly talk someone out of a fear of exploitation by exploiting her, right?
	Men have a strength and an advantage over women that we can survive serial sexual partners far better than women can.
	For, you know, again, obvious biological reasons.
	And this is statistically seen and known.
	It's not just a made-up theory.
	So you're harming the women in your environment.
	And again, I assume you were harmed by a woman and so on, right?
	So you need to focus on where you're stronger to make up for where you were weaker in the past.
	But it's destructive. It's destructive to the women and it's destructive for you.
	Look, we all know that if we see an adult bullying a child, that that's really cowardly because the adult is bigger and stronger, right?
	Yeah. And, I mean, when I was in high school, I did this joke at the school talent show, or I can't remember what it was called, but basically I did the cheese shop sketch from Monty Python, and I also did this joke, and the joke goes something like this, top of the CN Tower, right?
	Three guys up at the top of the CN Tower.
	And one guy says to the other guy, you know, there's these wild updrafts that come from the CN Tower.
	They just go way up, right? They can actually carry a person.
	The guy says, oh, come on, they can't carry a person, right?
	And the first guy says, no, no, no, watch.
	And he steps off the top of the CN Tower, and he literally floats around the top of the CN Tower, and the gust of wind propels him up, and he lands on the top.
	And the guy says, oh, my God, I had no idea.
	It's like, well, it's windy up here, right?
	You can feel that wind. It actually will support you.
	And the second guy steps off the CN Tower and plummets to his death.
	And the third guy turns to the first guy and says, you know, Superman, sometimes you can be a real asshole.
	Now, Superman can fly around the top of the CN Tower, but other people who aren't Superman plunge to their death.
	Now, you can have a whole bunch of sexual relationships and survive, but women can't.
	In general, on average.
	So you're kind of bullying, in a way, people weaker than you.
	I mean, if you saw a guy punch a girl and the guy was twice the girl's side, you'd say, ugh, that's pretty gross, right?
	Yes. But if you're matching your promiscuity strength against a woman's promiscuity weakness, it's scarcely more noble, if that makes any sense.
	I get it. And you know this deep down, I'm sure, right?
	So whenever we do wrong, there's punishment.
	Yeah. Whenever we do wrong, there's punishment.
	And your punishment is to get worse and worse partners.
	I'm sorry, this is just the way it works in the unconscious, right?
	There's justice in the mind whether we like it or not.
	There's justice in the mind whether we like it or not.
	And, you know, you just have to look into the rumors of Paul Joseph Watson or whatever, right?
	I mean, to sort of figure this sort of stuff out.
	So your punishment, if you don't learn these lessons and contact whoever you can, apologize, try to make amends, and then really work to not date women with the opposite values that you have, your punishment will be...
	To date worse and worse women until either you completely run out of steam or something really bad happens and you date a woman who's bad enough to bring false charges or something.
	Like something's going to happen as a result of...
	And look, I'm not trying to make you a bad guy.
	I assume you didn't sort of know these things, but yeah, bad things are going to happen until you learn these lessons and I would assume try to act in a better manner, if that makes sense.
	Yeah. I mean, I am even disappointed at myself because despite this imperfect match, I still didn't like...
	Even with this woman, I was kind of selfish.
	I don't know. I would...
	I mentioned going to spa center and then I sort of felt a little tired, so I gave up on that idea.
	We made an agreement to go to a restaurant.
	I sort of said, well, we can order food or something.
	Yeah. Well, and she would only be with you as an act of self-contempt or betrayal of her own values or lack of values or whatever, right?
	So she is enjoying using her sexual wiles to turn you into a hypocrite, right?
	So the nihilism has an effect, right?
	So if she can get you to betray your values because she's willing to offer sexual access, then that's a glorious act of destruction for the devil in her heart too, right?
	This guy just talks about his values, but if I open my legs, man, he'll just murder them on the altar of my cleavage.
	Good point. Yeah.
	I mean, she did mention a couple of stories and how she just enjoys crushing men's egos and so on.
	Wait, she said this to you openly?
	I enjoy crushing men's egos?
	And you're like, challenge accepted. Something like that.
	I mean, she said that she would go out with guys and guys would be very smug in her words and thought that they got it all figured out.
	And then she would not sleep with them, but say, I will sleep on the couch.
	And then what I did when she came to my place, I went to sleep to another room.
	I mean, I didn't even felt too aroused by her because of her weird masculine energy stories, I guess.
	You met you with a vagina.
	Okay, so, I mean, if this is where you're at, do you want to change?
	Do you want to, I mean, what do you want to do?
	Yes. I would like to meet a traditional girl who like...
	No, no, no. You've met those.
	No, no. Hang on.
	You've met those girls.
	Right? You said your very first girlfriend.
	She got settled down and all that.
	So you've met those girls.
	So let's try again. Yeah.
	She was even a gymnast.
	Well, I'm sure you can do better than a 21-year-old gymnast who's traditional.
	But anyway, go on. So, yeah, I mean, what do you want?
	And here's the thing, too.
	Why would a traditional woman want to have anything to do with you?
	I don't know. I guess if she's stupid and doesn't know her options...
	Right. So, you don't want a stupid woman, right?
	So, this is the challenge, right?
	You might need a period of celibacy.
	You might need a period of atonement.
	You might need a period of going to church and confessing your wrongs.
	I don't know, whatever it would be.
	But you might need a period of purification to sort of expunge this dark energy from exploitation.
	Right? So, because here's the thing, right?
	If you say... Yeah, I just got out of a relationship with a raging nihilist who enjoyed breaking men's hearts like eggs.
	Let's go on a date.
	You say that to a traditional woman, a good woman, what's she going to say?
	No, thank you.
	She's going to reach for the Lysol and ask for you to take 10 steps back, or maybe the holy water, I don't know.
	So, yeah, you might need a period of celibacy and purification.
	There's a reason why these, you know, born again virgin, right?
	Seven years. I'm not saying seven years, but yeah, you might need a period of reflection and purification and figure out whatever dark impulses are putting you down these roads because any woman of intelligence and morality is going to sniff that coming off you like smoke off a burning tanker, right? And she's going to Avoid you and then maybe out of lust or some sort of desire to crush the feminine, you'll just be drawn to more mutual destruction.
	You know, I guess you've elevated your game from you destroying women to mutual destruction, right?
	And then the next step is the women destroying you.
	Hmm. That wouldn't be too nice.
	I mean, I wouldn't say that I have a hate for the feminine.
	Like, almost all of the people who have hurt me in my life have in general been men.
	Women have mostly either cuddled me or I don't know.
	The worst I got from women was rejection or ignoring.
	And your relationship with your mom?
	I mean, it's not great.
	But it's like we don't talk too much.
	We kind of avoid each other.
	Why do you avoid each other?
	What's the issue? Well, many times I would try to discuss many of my childhood issues and growing up and like many of the things which you mentioned and so on.
	And in general, I wouldn't really get like...
	I wouldn't get the satisfactorial engagement from her side.
	And what were the top one or two issues that you were trying to talk to her about?
	I mean, I was a problematic child.
	Even in kindergarten, I would consistently get into fights.
	I would have a speech impediment.
	I would use bad words more than other kids.
	But I was sort of a talented kid and so on.
	So I was an unusual kid and it never occurred to me that she would really engage with that in any sort of way.
	What do you mean, a problematic kid who swore?
	Where did you learn swear words?
	Yeah, from the home, of course.
	Okay, so your parents were swearing?
	My parents are divorced.
	That's not what I asked. Your parents were swearing.
	People in the household, yeah.
	And not only did they swear, but they didn't cover it up around you.
	They didn't tell you not to use these words outside the home.
	So what does it mean to say you're a problematic child?
	I mean, at the age of five or four or whenever you were in kindergarten, you're almost solely a product of your environment.
	Yes. I guess, like, other families would beat their kids into submission not to use them.
	My parents would always, like, remind me just how vicious other parents are and always say, ah, maybe I am failing you because I am not beating you like Irena or whatever.
	And how did they discipline you then if they didn't beat you?
	They wouldn't do corporal punishment.
	Usually they wouldn't, but they would critique me.
	And, like, they would basically be hypocrites.
	They would say, yeah, like, don't do it because it's bad, but they would do it themselves.
	Oh, so, like, I want kids, but I'll date a nihilist who doesn't.
	Or, I respect my culture, but I'm going to damage the women in that culture.
	That kind of hypocrite?
	Yeah. Well, a good thing we broke that pattern.
	Yeah. Liberation!
	Freedom! Right.
	Yeah. Right.
	And they don't admit to these issues or errors, right?
	The answer is always, I am doing the best I can.
	Well, but if they critiqued you when you were a kid, they never accepted that you were just doing the best you could, right?
	Yeah. So you at five have to be relentlessly critiqued and corrected.
	In harsh terms. But they, as parents, well, you can't critique them because they're just doing the best they can.
	So they have way higher standards for a five-year-old than they have for themselves, right?
	For the five-year-old, they have nothing but correction for themselves.
	They have nothing but excuses.
	Yeah. Yeah.
	I would also voice some of my current problems to them and, like, imply that the Their role model or lack of instruction or just lack of being there for me would lead to this current issue I have.
	And the answer is almost always, ah, you are a grown man, now just figure it out.
	Like, yeah, I made some mistakes.
	Big deal. My parents made tons of mistakes.
	Right, and they were harsh and indifferent parents and got divorced, right?
	So are they saying that they're fine?
	Well, my parents made a lot of mistakes and look where I am, divorced with almost no relationship with my kid.
	Yeah, but ironically, both of their parents stayed together until death and were more functional than they are.
	Well, not if they didn't intervene on how they were parenting you.
	Well, you have a point there.
	One of their jobs is grandparents.
	If the grandparents are more functional than the parents, the grandparents need to intervene and help the parents become better.
	Yeah, well, my grandparents sort of served more as the role model for a functional, loving pair than my real parents because they stayed together.
	They didn't fight almost any time.
	They were pleasant to each other.
	Yeah. Right.
	But still not enough for you to settle down, right?
	I mean, I guess I had two opposite role models seeing play out.
	No, no, they can't be opposite.
	They can't be opposite because if your grandparents didn't intervene with your parents about their parenting, then they're not opposites, right?
	Yeah. So, yeah, as far as advice goes, I mean, obviously, you can do whatever you want.
	I would certainly suggest that you stop harming women because that's going to accrue to your conscience, right?
	The harm we do accrues to our conscience, whether we like it or not.
	It's beyond us, right?
	Like, we can believe that smoking is not bad for us, but it doesn't change how it affects our lungs.
	And we can believe that we can get away by doing harmful things, but our unconscious knows better.
	And here's the thing, too. Imagine, just imagine, that you...
	Get married next year to some wonderful woman and you've done your cleansing rituals or whatever it's going to be.
	You're married to a wonderful woman and she gives birth unto you a daughter.
	And then when your daughter is 17 or 18, she meets a guy just like you.
	How are you going to feel? Well, hopefully like me when I am all fixed up.
	No, no, no. Like you when you were that age.
	Well, I'm going to warn my daughter about self-obsessed guys with red flags and so on.
	Right. So, if she meets you at that age, you would consider that quite a danger to your daughter, right?
	Or risk. So, every woman is some man's daughter.
	Every woman is some woman's daughter.
	And the care and protection that you feel towards your own daughter...
	It's not exactly you be compliant to not extend that to women as a whole.
	Every woman you've met and broken up with has a father who's hurt, upset, and angry that she met you.
	If he's a decent father, maybe he's a cruel father, I don't know, but if he's a decent father, he'd be like, man, I wish she hadn't met that guy.
	He did a real number on her.
	Sexual abuse victim.
	I finally trust someone.
	Bye! It was a couple of years, not that great.
	Right, so imagine me saying bye for a couple of years.
	Is that any more pleasant? Bye!
	For the next three years.
	It's like the worst kind of baritone tinnitus you can imagine.
	I have a tinnitus.
	What did you get it from, Gino?
	I had some work done on my teeth and I guess it didn't work very well or something.
	Oh, is it some pinched nerve in your ear?
	I would say it is a tooth abscess which didn't really get resolved properly.
	It's funny how all of the auditory nerves are kind of wrapped into the facial nerves and the jaw nerves and the muscles and this and that and the other.
	Yes, yes. I lost half my singing voice when I got...
	I didn't have a huge singing voice to begin with, but I lost half my singing voice when I got an ankylos tooth drilled out on my upper right.
	I just lost control over my pitch.
	It's just tragic.
	But, you know, it's not like I was a singer, but, you know, I enjoyed humming.
	No, I get it.
	I get it. Like, I did some work on a tooth.
	It was a wisdom tooth.
	And I chose to keep the tooth.
	And maybe a week later, I got the tinnitus after listening to some moderately loud music, which never happened before.
	Is it one ear or both? It's both year, but one year is a lot stronger, and I actually did some experimental therapy to try and get it down, and it actually worked.
	Oh, it did work, right? Yeah, because I've heard, I think it was about six months ago, I was reading about how there does seem to be some tinnitus sound therapy cure that, because tinnitus, as far as I understand it, is not the nerves.
	It's your brain trying to compensate for a lack of audible.
	Quality. There's something missing in your audio, so your brain just trying to crank it up.
	So it's not actually a nerve transmission thing.
	It's occurring within the brain.
	This is sort of my understanding. If you don't know, I'm not a doctor, but I think that there's some people who seem to have a fairly decent treatment for tinnitus.
	It's like the first one, I think, that's come along that is trying to use sound therapy to fix things.
	And was it something experimental that you did and you said it sort of paid off?
	Yes, so I went to a neurologist.
	This is a very open-minded doctor.
	And I have brought studies that I found on a tinnitus talk forum.
	Basically, he proscribed me a corticosteroid.
	And I took it because while we were discussing, we kind of agreed that it's probably an inflammatory process in the nerve.
	Yeah, like sometimes if you clench your jaw, you can produce a little whine in your ear, so it's something like that.
	Yes, yes. If I do those Wim Hof breathing methods, the ringing decreases by maybe 60%.
	Even now, years after.
	And I took the corticosteroids and I went to the hyperbaric chamber.
	I think I went for like 5 or 10 treatments for about an hour.
	And when I would be in the hyperbaric pressure, the tinnitus would completely stop.
	Wow. Yes.
	And then I go out and it comes back within 10 minutes or so.
	You just have to live in an iron lung.
	You're good to go, right? Yeah, I came to an idea like maybe it's like a business, like medical tourism for people who suffer from tinnitus, like a hotel underwater.
	Right, right, right. That's interesting.
	And so it's down with the cortical steroids and that's not what I was talking about.
	I'm talking about some sort of sound therapy, but the steroids are helping with it as a whole?
	I took steroids for maybe two weeks or four weeks.
	I gained a lot of weight and I just had to stop it.
	Under these pills and the therapy, it went down maybe 80%.
	I could barely hear it.
	When I stopped with the corticosteroids, it went up, but nowhere near as how it began.
	And now it's tolerable, while before I would go with friends to a cinema and I could hear the ringing over the cinema sound.
	Right, right, right. Well, good.
	I'm glad. I know that some people go completely crazed.
	I was reading about a guy, a CEO of some company.
	I think he got some tinnitus post-vax, or maybe it was COVID or something, and he ended up killing himself because I think that the tinnitus is really loud.
	It can be just appallingly awful for people.
	Yeah, I would wake up and get sweaty hands immediately just from this sound.
	It was a nightmare for maybe a week or two weeks.
	Right, right. Well, good.
	Well, I'm glad that's resolved.
	All right. Well, listen, keep me posted about how things are going.
	I really do appreciate the conversation today.
	Opening up in this kind of way is hopefully helpful for you, and it certainly, I think, is very helpful for other people.
	The question of dating around is tough.
	I really think that dating apps do to women what pornography does to men.
	Which is just this constant search for stimulation and this constant feeling that you can do better.
	And it's not great.
	You know, you're going to age out of peak fertility women at some point.
	And finding someone that...
	I mean, I saw this interesting question or this woman was talking on social media about how...
	When a man's ready to settle down, he just basically marries the woman in front of him.
	He doesn't sort of find the love of his life and then decide to settle down.
	A man's just like, yeah, I'm ready.
	You'll do. You're in front of me.
	Let's settle down. And I do think that this fantasy that there's this perfect woman out there, I mean, it's tough.
	I always feel a bit rough saying this because my wife, I waited until I was in my 30s and my wife is the perfect woman for me and We just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary, and she's just a real delight to wake up with every day, and I feel immensely privileged.
	So I don't want to say there's no such thing as the perfect woman, and I think that she's not just the perfect woman for me, the perfect woman as a whole, but there does have to be a point where you say, this is the best that I can do.
	And we're all raised, shoot for the stars, aim for number one.
	It's like, well, no, not everyone can get that number one.
	Not everyone can be a movie star.
	Somebody has to go to the movies, right?
	It's an Not everyone is going to get that perfect woman and there is a good enough in life that I think is important and if you can find that and grow together with love and devotion to family and all of that, I think that's a great thing.
	But I think what you're doing is you're making yourself less marriageable as time goes along.
	So your standards remain high but you become less marriageable.
	As you go along, particularly when you're really rolling the dice with this woman, right?
	As you understand, you could have been in seriously legal and mortal danger if she decided to really wreck your life.
	Women have six million different ways of doing it.
	So I hope that you will exercise significant caution.
	I mean, the STD thing is important, but there are worse things than that.
	So I hope you'll keep that in mind.
	All right. Thanks, everyone, so much.
	FreeDomain.com. You're welcome.
	You're welcome. And remember, if you're on, I guess, yeah, you can go to, I'll post the link.
	You can go to the premium telegram and in there, there's my book and my History of Philosopher's series.
	And I'm also posting how I edit my books.
	I'm doing screen recordings of how I edit my books in case you have that kind of, everybody has some edits to do, even if it's email.
	So I hope that you'll engage with that.
	You can go to freedomain.locals.com as well.
	Sign up there. You can use the promo code, all caps, UBB20, And you can join the community there as well.
	If you just want to do it one time, you can go to freedomman.com.
	Lots of love to everyone.
	Thanks so much for your privilege of giving me this conversation, or my privilege in this conversation.

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