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Nov. 13, 2022 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:12:53

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	Yo, yo! Good afternoon, everybody.
	It's Steph. How is your Friday?
	How is your week?
	How is your life? What are your thoughts?
	How can I help you?
	Not just help you help me, but help you help philosophy, which I think helps all of us.
	So, if you have questions, comments, issues, criticisms, debates, horrors, hostilities, rage, whatever is on your mind, I am happy to hear.
	Hi, Steph. How you doing?
	Okay, thanks, Steph.
	I wanted to just update you.
	I managed to, after a lot of planning and so forth, I managed to get away from where I was living, and then I got to where I was going.
	But when I got there, I turned right around and went back.
	It was... It was almost like an uncontrolled action and I'm just so determined that it won't happen again.
	I remember listening to one of your podcasts where you say that people that underwent abuse, the fight or flight reaction is a lot stronger and that's That's certainly what it felt like, but it was just uncontrollable.
	It's really embarrassing to even admit it.
	Well, so far you're not really admitting anything, though I appreciate the call because it's all so vague.
	I was here, I went there, I boomeranged.
	Oh no. So what are you talking about?
	I don't mean to laugh, right, because I'm sure it's serious stuff, but it's too vague to process so far?
	Okay, okay, Steph.
	So I'm...
	I was living at a place of my mother's, and I really wanted to get away from her.
	So I traveled to another country to look for work and so forth.
	And when I got there, it just felt like I wouldn't achieve what I wanted.
	So I turned around and went back.
	Well, back to your mom's.
	Yes. And how Oedipal are we talking here?
	What's your age? 40.
	Okay, so not entirely un-Greek.
	And do you want to give me...
	Have we talked before? Do you want to give me a backstory?
	We did, Steph. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so just flesh me up on the backstory if you could.
	Yeah, I'm not...
	With work-wise and so forth, that's not, you know, going too great.
	I grew up with my abusive family.
	I'm trying to think of what details you'd be most interested in.
	I understand that she's abusive.
	That's why I wanted to get away from her.
	But abusive how? It's verbally abusive.
	It's just, you know, constantly...
	Sorry, just so I can flesh it out.
	Give me an example of what she would say to you if she thought she'd messed up or had a criticism or something.
	What would she say to me if I were you?
	She just...
	Whatever it was that I did, she would have like a negative for it.
	No, no, I understand that, Mr.
	Vague. I understand that she's got a negative.
	That's why we call it abusive. So give me the speech that she's given to you, perhaps a million times or so.
	She would say, well, you know, it was bound not to work out.
	It was, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, bound to, it was difficult.
	It would be words like that.
	Okay, not getting a super sense of abuse.
	A bit of sort of heavy negativity and all that, but what does she call you?
	What labels does she give you?
	How does she try to reframe your personality to yourself?
	What kind of distorted mirror does she slam your face into?
	What are we talking like? What's the most hostile she gets?
	The most hostile she ever...
	I'm trying to think.
	One of her favorite phrases was that it's not enough to kill you.
	It's not enough to kill you?
	Yeah, that was one of her favorite ones at one point.
	Trying to think of what else.
	It's a shame that there's no one to beat you properly.
	That was another favorite of hers when I was younger.
	What was that before? Beat you properly?
	I didn't quite catch that. Yeah, she would, her and her mother would often say that it's a shame that there's no one to give you a good beating.
	Oh, they lamented the absence of a violent man to put you in your place, right?
	Yeah, because my mum ran away from him.
	Oh, she found him too violent, but he should be around for you?
	He was never...
	He was more absent than violent.
	He never... As far as I'm aware, he never got physically violent, but I guess maybe she wished that he was violent, perhaps.
	Okay, and what has your dating life been like over the past, say, quarter century?
	Not great. It was, like I mentioned in the calling, it was...
	It was with a woman that also tried to, you know, I don't know what you'd use, put me down or how you'd say it.
	Yeah, like a toddler, you know, stamping your feet, demanding, you know, that she'd get her way.
	All right. So what's your theory as to why you ended up back home?
	It was just fear of...
	I don't know.
	Maybe it was fear of failure.
	It was...
	But I was so determined to go free with this.
	It was...
	and then yeah I ended up back do you want me to press on or did you want to give me a theory yeah I don't know if I've got one, Steph.
	Okay, so your mom is unmarried.
	She's not in a primary relationship, is that right?
	No, she's not now.
	And how did I know that, you think?
	I mean, maybe you told me before, but in the moment.
	How did I know that your mom wasn't in a primary relationship?
	Because she needs me.
	Yeah, because she wants to turn you into little Lord Fauntleroy, Oedipus' husband, right?
	This is the typical trap of the women who can't sustain adult relationships is they try to glom on and borg and wrap around and absorb vagina dentata style their little boys so that you can be her little companion for the rest of her life and she doesn't have to worry about growing up and attracting an actual adult male.
	I mean, I realize that theory, Steph.
	I just don't think it...
	I mean, I can't stand her and I... Well, no, but we're talking about what she wants and what you're programmed to provide.
	Right? I mean, if you're programmed to serve your mother's needs, then whether you like her or not is irrelevant.
	I mean, if you're operating on automatic, then you're like a computer, or, you know, the NPC meme, in this regard, I'm not saying in your whole life, but you're like a computer.
	And a computer doesn't sit there and say, well, you know, I really have preferences here, there, or that, right?
	If you play some game, like I play some Unreal Tournament 2004 with some friends from time to time, sort of an old back, a throwback school, and you can have bots in there, and you can have up to 16 bots or something like that.
	Now, the bots try to win.
	Because they're programmed to. They don't have a preference.
	They don't cheer for their own team.
	They don't feel sad if they lose.
	They don't feel frustrated if you win by a hair.
	They're just doing their programming.
	So if you're acting from a standpoint of programming, your preferences are irrelevant to the programming because you're just doing what the other person wants.
	And you may sort of kick and scream and fight and dislike and all that.
	But if the underlying programming hasn't been challenged...
	Then, in a sense, you're obeying physics, not free will.
	So if you get thrown out of a plane, you desperately don't want to fall and hit the ground, but your preferences don't matter because you're following physics.
	And if you're in a state of programming, you're following physics.
	This is what's so dangerous about the unconscious if you don't explore and understand it, that it becomes your physics.
	And then you twisting in the wind saying, well, I don't want to fall, doesn't matter because you're following physics.
	Does that make sense? It does, Steph.
	It's just I thought I'd done enough, I'd understood enough to be able to break through it, and that's why it came as such a shock when I wasn't able to.
	Sorry, what do you mean wasn't able to?
	I mean, I'm sorry, are we in the realm of physics or free will here?
	Did you make a choice to return home or not?
	Well, yeah, I guess so, since I returned.
	Okay, so did it benefit you?
	And I'm sorry, the home is the wrong word, because 40, home, shouldn't be your mom's place, right?
	For me, 15 wasn't my mom's place, was not home.
	But okay, so who does it benefit for you to return home, right?
	So if you're doing something that seems odd to you, if you're doing something that's like, well, that doesn't make any sense, it doesn't serve my interest, what the hell am I doing?
	If you want to quit drinking and you keep drinking, you want to quit smoking, you keep smoking, the big question is, okay, if it doesn't benefit you, then who does it benefit?
	And I think clearly, again, correct me if I'm wrong, or always correct me when I'm wrong, clearly this benefits your mother at your expense, right?
	I guess so.
	Well, don't guess, because if you're going to give me fog, we can't have a conversation right now.
	I mean, in a sense, I'm like boxing with a ghost.
	It doesn't work, right? So if I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong.
	If I'm right, tell me I'm right.
	If we don't know, let's just keep exploring, right?
	I don't know them, Steph.
	I don't know.
	I mean, she's not at this address most of the time.
	I'm sorry, she's not what? She doesn't live in this house most of the time, so I was here by myself, and I try not to have any contact with her because, you know, so...
	I don't understand this.
	So you're living in your mom's house, but she's not living there?
	Yeah, this is her, like, holiday home.
	Ah, okay. So I assume that it's a nicer place that you could get if you had to pay your own bills.
	Yeah, for sure, yeah.
	Okay, so you're getting something for free, which is a nicer place than you could get on your own, right?
	Correct. But I was determined that it didn't matter if I had to have something a lot worse.
	I was determined that I would just do it anyway to move to get out of here.
	Yeah, I mean, I don't know why we're talking about what you wanted to do since the empirical evidence is you didn't do it.
	So I assume that you're calling because you didn't want to do something that you ended up doing.
	Okay, so let me give you a wee lecture.
	And that's to everyone, right?
	And myself included. This goes out to my daughter and everyone who eventually ends up listening to this or whatever, right?
	So family is subsidy.
	Family is subsidy, right?
	I mean, obviously it's a subsidy because they pay for you when you're a kid and they bring you to the dentist and they pay for your health care and they give you food and toys and maybe some pocket money, as they said back in the day.
	So family is subsidy.
	Now, I think most of us understand that family is subsidy when it comes to money and shelter and health care and so on.
	But family is also subsidy in relationships, right?
	In relationships, because you don't have to earn them on your own merits.
	You are just born into a family.
	You bond with a family, good, bad, or indifferent.
	You are attached to a family.
	You have some place to go at Christmas.
	You have some place to go at Thanksgiving.
	You have someone who calls you on your birthday, and it's all subsidized.
	Now, this doesn't mean that that's bad.
	A subsidy doesn't mean that it's bad.
	But you have to recognize and differentiate that the whole point, the whole point, Of being raised from childhood, which is pure subsidy, to adulthood is to move from subsidy to the free market, to move from the socialism of the family nest, from each according to their ability to each according to their needs.
	That's a description of infancy, toddlerhood, childhood.
	The automatic subsidy of family relationships is something you're designed to claw your way free of.
	And by free, I don't mean not having relations with your family.
	I simply mean moving from the subsidy, the automatic, the accepted, the inherited, the unearned, to move from that to the earned.
	To move from that to the earned.
	Now, if you stick with your family...
	Then you're staying in the realm of subsidy.
	And please understand, I want to be very clear, I'm not denigrating family relations at all.
	At all. My goal with my daughter is to have her be able to have good relationships in the free market of adulthood.
	Now, I hope that she's going to continue to want to spend time with me off and on over the years, and I hope that, you know, she wants me around as a granddad and all these kinds of lovely things.
	But her relationship with me is automatic.
	It's subsidized.
	It's inherited. It's not earned in the free market.
	Now, most of the people that I've known over the course of my now not inconsiderable number of years, most of the people that I have known have stayed addicted to or susceptible to These subsidies.
	My friend, whose mother died, he would come home from work.
	His mother would call him.
	His mother was a single woman.
	She had her mother living with her for many years.
	And her mother would call him with her menthol smoky voice and she would say, Hey, I'm just cooking up some hamburger helper down here.
	You should come on down. And then there's going to be an episode of Murder, she wrote.
	And then maybe we can play some canasta.
	Now, this is the kind of thing you might expect going on in an old-age home, but this was a young man in his prime being pulled down into the whirlpool, the black hole of automatic relations.
	Now, he's looking at his little apartment.
	He lived in the same building.
	He's looking at his little apartment.
	And he's saying, well, I don't want to...
	I don't want to eat alone.
	That's kind of sad. It feels lonely.
	I don't want to eat alone. I don't even want to cook.
	I have to do dishes.
	Then I'm just going to have to go back to the grocery store and get some more stuff.
	That's just a 25, 30, 35-year-old man.
	And there's this succubi, in a sense, downstairs...
	Come on down. I've got hamburger helper and murder, she wrote.
	What's he going to do? Is he going to sit there?
	No, I'm not going to eat with my mother.
	I'm going to cook for myself and I'm going to eat three floors up alone while she eats three floors down alone.
	And I can understand every single day it's easier to go downstairs and get her combination of hamburger helper and strangely salted salad.
	So, I understand that.
	It's very tempting in the moment.
	In the same way that it's tempting, if you're a smoker, to have one cigarette rather than not smoke.
	Each of these little decisions, right?
	So, it is, of course, the purpose of the parent to have the child, of course, love you and be bonded with you and have fun with you and so on.
	But the purpose, of course, is to point your children...
	At the marketplace of relationships and have them win.
	It can be tempting to keep your children close.
	It's one of the great, horrible temptations that every parent faces, particularly a parent who's alone, particularly a parent who may not be getting along with a spouse.
	Oh, stay! Come over! Come for dinner!
	Because they don't want to sit alone with their spouse.
	There's too much tension, too many conflicts, too many unresolved issues, who knows what.
	But that desire to feast on your children rather than face your own problems, it's...
	Look, I don't know if you went through this phase.
	I know I did. I think every teenager does, right?
	My daughter's going through this phase right now.
	We were out and about, and we met up with some of her friends.
	Now, what did I say?
	Go! Go with your friends.
	We'll meet up later. Go have fun.
	Go with your friends.
	Go with your friends. I had you for like this close to 14 years.
	Go with your friends. And, you know, she's nice, a very nice young lady.
	So she's like, are you sure? And I'm like, no, seriously, go.
	Go with your friends. Because I don't want to be greedy.
	I love her company. She's great fun.
	Very smart. Very funny.
	Very insightful. But the purpose of me raising her is not to spend time with me!
	The purpose of me raising her is to spend time with other people, with her peers.
	Or, as someone said about my friend, he's like, I can't meet any women.
	I don't know who the women are, but I know where they're not.
	They're not down in your mom's apartment for sure.
	So this parenting thing where you love your kids so much, you enjoy their company so much, you want to hang on to them.
	It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, absolutely not.
	That's greedy.
	That's consuming the future for the sake of your present.
	And it's denying you both the growth that can only come from free market relationships.
	And again, I want to be clear, I'm not denigrating family relations at all.
	But the purpose of a coach is to have you not need the coach.
	The purpose of helping your children to learn how to walk is so they can walk without you, your help.
	Or as my college roommate said, his father's relationship.
	His father's philosophy of parenting was you're like a bow.
	You draw the children back like an arrow.
	You launch them into the world.
	And this clawing onto your children, like these little mechanical coffins that you used to see as a kid where you'd put a coin on the coffin, a hand would come out and drag the coin into the coffin, that's parents who hang on to their kids.
	The parents are managing their own anxiety and feelings of unworthiness, of being unlovable, of not being attractive, of not being able to win a relationship in the free market.
	People who don't believe that they can win a good relationship in the free market Are the source of a lot of tyranny in this world, and not just personal, but also political.
	Look at the unmarried women and how they skew left.
	What is it? Plus 36?
	Plus 38 points? Democrat in the last election?
	Something like that. Madness.
	So, she is demanding a subsidy from you.
	And it's greedy. And it's wrong.
	It's an abuse of power, in my view.
	A serious abuse of power from the part of the parent.
	Your children are not responsible.
	As a parent, your children are not responsible for your lifetime companionship needs.
	You can only do that by eating their future, burning it down.
	It's vampiric, frankly, to consume your children's possibilities for the sake of your own greed for companionship.
	Now, I assume, sorry, that's the end of the speech.
	Let me ask you a question here. How much or do you care about your mother?
	It's a good question, Steph.
	You know, she had a small heart attack a couple of years back.
	And at the time, I was really quite upset.
	But then as time went by, I thought to myself that I never miss her.
	I never once think about that it would be nice to be around her.
	Or I'm never happy when she does come here.
	And it just dawned on me that if she was dead, I'd actually be quite happy.
	And how old is she?
	She's, what, 70, 71, something like that.
	Right. Something around that age.
	When did she last have a primary relationship?
	And by that, I mean a live-in romantic relationship or marriage.
	Almost 20 years ago.
	Right. Righty, righty, righty.
	So, girl's been alone for a while.
	That's right. Now, you're in a very horrible position, right?
	Because when you said she had a small heart attack, I thought you were just going to say she has a small heart.
	But that's fine. Totally fine.
	So, you're in a tough position because it's not like she's going to be out there burning up tinder, right?
	Absolutely. So, that's rough.
	That's rough for sure. And she's boxed herself.
	She's painted herself into a corner, right?
	So she's in her 70s, and yes, you can find a relationship in your 70s, but it's not particularly easy, particularly if you've been out of the game for like 20 years.
	So 20 years ago, I guess you were 20, was that when she last had your dad, or was there some other guy floating around?
	There is some other guy floating around.
	And do you know what happened to that relationship?
	Not really. I'm not sure how it ended.
	She lived with him for some time.
	She complained about that she would never live with a guy again, that she would only live with someone if she was married.
	And how often is she in the vacation home that you're staying in?
	What sort of portion of the year is she there?
	I'd say about a third of the year.
	And what does she do with the rest of her time?
	She's in the city? She...
	Yeah, she's in the city.
	She goes to church a lot.
	This has been her...
	She found religion.
	I mean, I even said to her so many times, you know, I've told you all these things, which I feel you really caused me a lot of damage and a lot of pain.
	And you've never once apologized to me for that.
	But, you know, she'll stand there praying and asking for forgiveness from God.
	And I said, well, I'm just in the other room.
	You know, maybe you could Ask me.
	Just once. And it was just total silence.
	Yeah, well, it's a lot easier to have God and Jesus as your boyfriend and husband than it is to have an actual human being, right?
	This is one of the reasons why a lot of narcissistic people are drawn to religion because religion is not a two-way street in the same way that a human relationship is, right?
	Yeah, these were my thoughts, exactly.
	Right, right. So yeah, it's really tough to compete with perfect Jesus and God as the imaginary companion, right?
	And the reason I say imaginary is not to say that they're not real, but it's almost never the case that I've seen when really selfish people Say, well, God has commanded me to apologize to you and to make amends.
	I've never seen that. So whatever relationship they have, it's not with a God who's out for their best interests, right?
	Because he's not actually saying to them, you have to do that which is really uncomfortable for you.
	I mean, this is my general suspicion of religious people as a whole, is that, okay, when did your God, when did God or Jesus tell you to do something that was really, really horrible and uncomfortable for you?
	Or is it just, you know, well, you need to meditate and you need to think and you need to have good thoughts and you need to love people?
	Like all stuff that comes pretty easy.
	When did your God tell you to walk against the wind uphill into the hail, into the sleet, into the storm?
	Well, there are some people, to their credit, where their God tells them to do.
	God tells them to do something that's really horrible, difficult, and unpleasant for them.
	And all props and respect, they do it.
	But whoever she's worshipping, it's more like her own self.
	It's more like her own preferences, her own needs.
	It's not the god that It's not the God of the Bible who tells you that this world is a veil of tears and you have to do the opposite of what you want, a good deal of time.
	And the more opposite it is of what you want, probably the more better it is for your soul and intervenes very strongly.
	And if there was a God that she's praying to who's looking out for you and loves you, he would have told her when she prayed, Oh, Jesus, what should I do today?
	Jesus would have replied down with a big giant trumpet saying, Let him go!
	Let him go. You're hanging on selfishly to your child, killing off his future rather than deal with adult relationships yourself.
	So you need to let him go.
	Well, or, you know, at least apologize and give him some release, right?
	So, okay, so love for your mom at the moment is not at maximum, right?
	Do you dislike her or do you feel frustration or anger towards her that is deep and significant?
	I hate her, Steph, and I just want to strangle her so I never have to hear her voice again.
	That's how much I hate her.
	Right. Okay. So, do you understand...
	Sorry, that's a really annoying way to put it.
	I apologize. That was really...
	It's all right. My daughter would say smuggins.
	Or do you understand?
	Like I'm handing down some tablet from on high, right?
	Moses, the first guy to download a tablet from the cloud.
	Anyway, so... I will make the case, and it's your life, so you're the final arbiter of course, right?
	That you're acting out of hatred for your mother.
	That you're acting out of hatred for your mother.
	Because if you are enabling her worst habits, then you're both engaged in an act of mutual destruction.
	Right? She is destroying your future and you're trapping her in her selfishness.
	Because if she's hanging on to you, Out of fear for loneliness and you comply with that, you're trapping her in her selfish using of others mode, right?
	Because if you were to say to her or, you know, even 20 years ago, right?
	If she said, you know what, I'm thinking of breaking up with my boyfriend.
	I'm thinking of breaking up with the guy I'm living with.
	If you were to have said, hey, you know, mom, do whatever you want, but just please recognize that I'm out.
	I'm almost out of here or I am out of here.
	So, you know, you've got 30 years to go, 40 years to go maybe.
	Just recognize that you cannot rely upon me as any kind of primary relationship.
	That's not a thing. I was out from her by that time.
	Right. But I would argue that she was able to break up with this guy rather than compromise and she's been able to stay out of a relationship for 20 years because you're around.
	I've not been around for most of the time.
	I came back a little over two years ago, but I wasn't living with her from when I was a teenager.
	But then, you know, with my lack of finances, that's why I moved back a couple of years ago.
	So what was your contact like with your...
	In your 20s, what was your contact like with your mother?
	I mean, you weren't living with her, I get that.
	But what was your contact like with her?
	Sometimes I'd speak on the phone, just stuff like that.
	It was at a minimal, really.
	She'd come and see me on occasion.
	Rarely I'd come and see her.
	It was pretty minimal.
	And did that increase over time?
	When did that start to escalate if it did?
	No, it never increased.
	It probably, if anything, it probably decreased.
	No, it was always at a minimal.
	I remember when I was a really little boy, my mum even...
	She was saying to me when I was maybe in my 20s how there was always something wrong with me because I wanted to be as far away from the house and the other people's houses.
	I'd only realised after starting to listen to you, Steph, that from the youngest of age I tried to get away from them.
	That's why when I was a teenager, as soon as I could, I was out of there.
	But she twisted it as if there was something wrong with me.
	Not that. There was something wrong with her.
	That's why I never wanted to be around.
	Well, of course she's going to twist it.
	If she wasn't going to twist it, then you probably wouldn't want to get away, right?
	So, of course she's going to twist it.
	Okay. So, why do you think...
	That you've been unable to find a pair bond as an adult.
	Because, you know, you disliked your mother.
	She was difficult or negative or abusive or whatever.
	And so, you know, you flew the coop.
	coop, you're out in the world, and what do you think it was that kept you from pair bonding with a woman?
	I picked the wrong ones, but They were... They had traits of my mother too.
	But I didn't realise it at the time.
	But I just automatically drifted into them.
	Because it was, you know, in my mind that this was quite normal.
	Because at that time I hadn't quite, you know, fully understood what my mother was and how damaging she was.
	Is that not specific enough, Steph?
	Okay, so how many girlfriends did you have since you started dating?
	Just a few.
	Three. And what was the longest relationship you had?
	That was almost 10 years, Steph.
	It's embarrassing to admit.
	Why? I mean, it's better than zero, isn't it?
	I don't know. It wasn't a good relationship, so it would have been probably better if it was zero.
	I don't know. I guess I learned a lot from it and I began to understand my mother through it quite well.
	So I guess some good came from it since I did learn a lot.
	And when did that relationship end?
	Oh, that was...
	Let me see...
	Seven years ago, something like that.
	And have you dated much since then?
	Yeah, there was one relationship since then which was really serious.
	It was the one that I mentioned to you in the calling, but that fell apart.
	Sorry, that fell apart.
	Was that... I'm sorry, was that the end of the sentence?
	I thought you were about to... You know, I have to continue.
	I just thought you were about to.
	Yeah, to tell you why it fell apart, Steph, yeah.
	It fell apart because...
	Because I... Why did it fall apart?
	It was...
	Almost hard...
	I'm trying to think of what was the...
	Why did the 10-year one fall apart?
	Because I was with her even though I didn't want to be like I was with my mother and I eventually managed to get out of it.
	Okay, and what are you hoping to get out of your call with me?
	I feel a little spun around, and that's not necessarily your fault.
	I thought it was around mother attachment, but it turns out you've had very little attachment with your mother for the past couple of decades, so I'm on a correct course, but I'm not sure where to correct course to.
	So how can I help you?
	What's the answer that you're trying to get?
	Well, the reason for calling in was I was just determined that It wouldn't happen again what happened, you know, this time when I just, you know, the whole flight instinct of why I... Oh my God, man!
	Okay, if you had a friend, would you say to your friend, it's great to take stuff from people you hate?
	There's no cost to that.
	It's a wonderful... You want to move ahead in life.
	You want to develop self-respect and integrity and virtue.
	It's really important that you take stuff.
	You take free stuff from people you hate.
	Would you give that advice to anyone?
	No, I wouldn't do. Okay, so if you, you know, being moral and having integrity is not super complicated.
	You just imagine your situation in the third person and what advice would you give?
	So if I was your friend and I said, oh man, you know, I hate my mom, I wish she were dead, but you know, she's given me a free place to stay, so I'm in.
	What would you say? It doesn't sound like a good idea.
	Well, why not? It's free, man.
	The nicer place that I could earn on my own.
	Because then I've got to pay a price for it.
	Well, what's the price?
	I mean, it's free. The price is my future.
	Oh, come on. Look, my mom owes me for being so mean.
	My mom owes me for being so mean.
	Getting some free stuff in a nice place.
	She's barely here anyway. Only a couple of months a year.
	So getting a free stuff, free place for me.
	She owes me. It was such a bad childhood.
	So, you know, I'm getting something out of the old witch.
	And what's wrong with that? But it's pittance compared to what I could have if I was by myself.
	Which is why I tried so hard to get out of here.
	No, no, no. What you don't understand, here's the thing, man.
	Here's what you don't understand.
	First of all, she owes me. Second of all, it's a nicer place than I get on my own.
	And third, here's the thing, right?
	So I'm saving some money by not having to pay any rent.
	And with that money, I can go out and date girls.
	I can date women. And then I can bring the women home.
	And they're going to say, well, this is a really nice place.
	A little feminine. A little feminine, but a really nice place.
	And I say, oh, yeah. No, I'm living at Mommy's.
	I'm 40 and I'm living at mommy's.
	And women, they will love that.
	They will find that deeply appealing and attractive.
	and it basically melts the panties off their asses.
	You're denying me ass-melting mommy living for some abstract principle yet?
	You've got to be crazy! Women love a 40-year-old guy living at mommy's place.
	It screams no issues you're going to have to overcome.
	No price. No cost.
	And what would you say? She wouldn't be impressed.
	Well, that's one way of putting it.
	She would be repulsed.
	That's why, again, that's why I wanted to get out of here.
	Because that's... It's a price not worth paying.
	It's not worth what I'm getting here compared to what I could have.
	Well, it's just delaying whatever challenges you need to overcome in your life, you're just bypassing and delaying them.
	If you want a nice place, go make money, work hard, get a nice place.
	Don't take it from a woman who did you significant harm, who you hate and wish were dead, if I understand what you were saying correctly.
	Yes. I mean, if you take stuff from people you hate, all you're saying is, my soul is for sale.
	Here's my price.
	A vacation home. Yeah, that'll make up for it.
	Yeah, my soul is for sale. And she's also, I mean, it's convenient for her if you're living in her place, because otherwise she has to have, I don't know, people got to come and check on it or whatever, right?
	It's convenient for her, but you know what she's doing, man?
	I'll tell you where the real price is going to be.
	I'll tell you where the... Okay, so her health, she's already had a small heart attack, right?
	Mm-hmm. All right.
	She is building up deposits in the Goodwill Bank, right?
	Because she's giving you a place to stay rent-free, right?
	Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
	Now, oh dear, mommy's getting a little ill.
	Oh, mom's unwell.
	Boy, mom needs to be taken to the doctor.
	Mom needs to be taken to the hospital.
	Mom needs someone to go and give a sponge bath.
	Mom needs this. Mom needs that.
	What are you going to say? What sense of obligation are you going to have in this situation?
	Yeah, it would be great...
	It would be a great sense of obligation, right?
	Yes.
	Righty, righty, righty.
	And listen, you can take whatever you want from people.
	This is not a moral good evil thing because it's all voluntary.
	You can take whatever you want from your mom.
	I'm just begging you to look at the costs and benefits.
	Yeah. That's what I did.
	That's why I left.
	Left? Oh, when you were young?
	No, that's why I left, you know, recently.
	Oh, left and then came back.
	Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. Yeah, you've got the quicksand.
	You've got a place to land that you think is free.
	And, you know, you know there's nothing free.
	There's nothing free in this life.
	Mm-hmm. And it's tough.
	You know, look, I mean, if I were your mom, right, or if I were your dad, and you were like, you know, I've really hit the wall, I got no money, I'd be like, okay, you can have a month.
	You can have a month to get back on your feet, and then you got to get out.
	It does kind of blunt your ambition when your housing needs are taken care of, right?
	Yeah, it's... It's UBI, Universal Bitch Income, right?
	So you've got your UBI and your ambition is kind of blunted and you're fairly comfortable and it's a nice environment.
	And yeah, I mean, so as a parent, of course, you want to help out your kids.
	They get into a rough spot or whatever, right?
	It's like, absolutely, yeah, you can come stay.
	you got a month you got a month to get back on your feet and then sorry you gotta get back out there in the world because you know the purpose of your existence is not to live with mom and dad right absolutely won't be getting any grandkids if you're stuck at home with me you Yeah. But she wants you to stay.
	It's convenient for her.
	It's helpful to her. It doesn't cost her anything.
	She's got to pay for the place either way.
	And she's building up that obligation bank.
	And, you know, there's a...
	I mean, I've mentioned this before in shows.
	I'll just touch on it briefly here, you know, for my older crowd or in preparation for when you get older.
	Something my business partner said to me many, many years ago.
	He said, in your 40s, it's your teeth.
	In your 50s, it's your parents.
	I always remembered that.
	Mm-hmm. And yeah, lo and behold, my ankylose tooth had to be taken out because it was used to the bone from when I was a kid in my 40s.
	So I guess that was my 50s, yeah.
	And yeah, parents get ill.
	My father died two and a half years ago.
	So when your parents get ill, they regain the power over you that they didn't have since you were a teenager.
	They just do. Saying no to an ill parent is very hard.
	Very hard. If you're in sort of regular contact or whatever.
	It's hard even if you're not. So your parents gain a kind of power and authority over you when they get old and ill.
	That you haven't experienced since you were a teenager.
	And, you know, that's the other thing to be cautious of is this inevitable sense of obligation.
	Look, everybody who listens to the show is a very nice person full of sympathy, empathy, and reciprocity.
	We are honorable, decent people.
	And, you know, I mean, I've managed to make a go of it by giving just about everything away for free and asking for donations.
	And... If you can help out, I would really appreciate that.
	Enough people have helped out that I'm able to keep body and bone together, right?
	So, everybody who listens to this, nice, honorable, reciprocal, caring, sensitive, thoughtful people in general, right?
	So, I mean, not the people who hate listen or hate watch, but most people, right?
	So, you are an honorable guy and when you take things from people, that creates a sense of obligation in you.
	It just does.
	Because the only way that you wouldn't Have that as if you're some complete sociopath with no capacity for empathy for self or other, in which case you wouldn't be listening to this show because it would be too enraging and painful.
	So this is just a warning to everyone or a caution or a respect.
	Your sensitivity, your reciprocity, your empathy, they're all beautiful things.
	Beautiful, wonderful things in a loving, healthy relationship.
	But that same sense of reciprocity is how the devil gets your soul in a sense, right?
	You take free things, that's going to create a sense of obligation in you.
	And when people come to collect on that obligation, it'd be virtually impossible to say no because of your sense of honor and reciprocity.
	So all the things that make you a great person in a romantic relationship or in a friendship or in a business partnership can make you vulnerable in a situation or system of exploitation, right?
	it.
	And your mom doesn't even have to say a word.
	That obligation has built up within you, whether you like it or not.
	Why? Because you're not a mean, nasty, selfish person or whatever.
	So, yeah, I mean, you know, if I were involved in your family, I'd say, okay, you know, how long have you lived at your mom's place now?
	Over two years. Oh, two years.
	So I would say, okay, two years, you've probably had enough of a chance to lick your wounds and get back out there in the world.
	Yeah.
	But it's tough, right?
	Because you got pretty comfortable there, right?
	That's probably it. And unfortunately, the mom bubble wrap around your balls is keeping all the women at bay, I assume.
	Yes, it is.
	So yeah, you're getting older, and the women you're able to get are getting older.
	Did you keep all your hair?
	I have pretty much all of its stuff, yeah.
	Yeah, that's another problem, man.
	I'm telling you. I was a bit envious of the herstute guys when I was younger, but it's a bit of a problem because you kind of exist in this state of timelessness because the advance of the scalp beating back the youth and the visible vanishing of your hair is a great reminder of mortality and time passing because, you know, at least women have the metronome of...
	Periods and, you know, the pencil test under your boobs.
	Like, there's things, right? But for men, we just get a little weathered.
	We get a little salt and pepper.
	And, you know, basically, 20 to 40 is all just a blob a year.
	It's not a huge amount of changes.
	I mean, in my 50s, I got to get a little bit creaky and I've had to change my exercise to stay limber and be able to still...
	I always have the goal.
	I want to be able to do a hard hour of racket sports.
	If I can do a hard hour of racket sports without...
	Any significant soreness, I feel that I'm doing okay.
	I feel I'm doing all right. So I had to sort of mix that up.
	Whereas before, I could just do the racket sports and it was fine.
	Now I have to do exercises to strengthen, particularly my calves and butt muscles for the racket sports.
	So it's just a big blob for the most part.
	And because you're not...
	But I feel... I'm feeling it.
	Even with the hair, I know that time is real short.
	Right. I understand that. I'm not saying the hair is a magic bullet or a magic shield against time, but what I'm saying is that it's not quite as urgent.
	You know, when you start losing your hair, you start focusing on settling down on the projection of being less attractive down the road.
	road, you might as well get something now, right?
	It actually makes you a little bit more feminine in terms of your clock is running out, your hair clock is running out, which is different from the egg clock running out, but you don't have that same kind of vividness of the temples leading to the receding hairline from the forehead to the six head to the eight head to the egg with fringe, you know, all that kind of stuff, right?
	So as I was doing a cartwheel the other day, and my daughter said, hey, an egg roll!
	Anyway, so it's a funny, funny, funny girl.
	So, yeah, so listen, I mean, if I were in your shoes, or if I were giving you advice, I'd say, look, you gotta get out there, man.
	You gotta get out from under the wing, and living at your mom's place is...
	It's just creating... I mean, you've already been there for two years, so you've already got quite a few hooks of obligation in there already, but it probably doesn't get better from there.
	And, you know, how does it feel?
	I mean, how would it feel to bring a woman back to your mom's place and she says, nice place, and then she says, how long have you owned it?
	Or why has it got so many throw pillows?
	What would you say? Yeah, yeah.
	I've not brought anyone back here, Steph, so...
	Right, right, right.
	Right. I don't want to rest in the palm of another man.
	Yeah, so I would just say, you know, now's a good time to panic.
	Now's a good time to get out there.
	Now's the time to fly the nest and go out and muscle your way into the world as a whole.
	And I think that would be very helpful.
	In terms of dating, I think that would be, I think, fairly essential.
	Fairly essential. I shall try and never break out, Steph.
	Well, plus, I mean, have you been able to save money by living at your mom's place to the point where you've got a down payment for your own place?
	No, Steph, no.
	The money situation isn't great at all.
	Right, okay. No. Right.
	Yeah, so some people...
	Some people fly because they want, other people fly because they're falling, and other people fly because they're thrown.
	So this might be, I have to throw yourself out there and fly that way.
	Yeah, I'm going to have to try to throw myself again.
	I think so. I won't let it happen again.
	It doesn't sound like too much has happened in the realm of growth over the last couple of years.
	Yeah, sometimes you just need to shake it up and move around and get the circulation back.
	So, yeah, that would certainly be my suggestion.
	All right. Well, listen, thanks. Keep me posted.
	And, of course, thanks so much.
	Thank you so much, Seth. Yeah, thank you for calling in.
	I appreciate it. Now, I'm just going to – I haven't even checked in for technical issues.
	I'm sure they exist. Let's see here.
	Let me just see if people had questions or comments, if there's anything anybody else who wants to call.
	Yes, we have somebody who wishes to talk.
	Yes, just unmute, my friend.
	I am all ears.
	HH. Unmute.
	AFK? AFK? Oh, no, I'm there.
	Yes, what's up, my friend? I wanted to ask you about female dominance hierarchies.
	I've been re-watching your shows on female evil, and we've been touching on...
	I'm so sorry, could you get a little closer to the microphone?
	You sound like you're reaching across a chasm of years.
	Mic issues. It was me.
	I had the mic issues.
	Okay, yeah, just speak closely and breathe away.
	Otherwise, I'm going to get all turned on.
	So, yeah, go ahead. Can you hear me now, Steph?
	Yeah, go for it. Dominance hierarchies among women.
	Go for it. Yes.
	Can you maybe share your thoughts on dominance hierarchies among women?
	How they compete for the best men?
	How they screw themselves over by providing easy sexual access?
	Any thoughts on that?
	Well, are you talking in nature or in statism?
	Well, basically both.
	Oh, you want quite the lecture.
	Is there any particular area that you would like me to focus on?
	I'm not sure what prompted the discussion in the chat.
	I think it was something among highly aggressive Latino women in high schools being very...
	Sexually aggressive toward teachers and getting away with it, and that somehow sparked the discussion.
	So that's where my question comes from.
	Okay, all right.
	I actually have thought about this.
	Just two days ago, I started writing a new book called The Present, which is a prequel, of course, to the future.
	I've completely given up on Poetic So I decided, writing a new book, I plotted it out fairly extensively, and it's a love story that takes place not entirely distant from the men's rights community.
	So it's a love story between a feminist and a men's rights activist, to some degree.
	And it's very... I'm loving it.
	I'm absolutely loving it. Because anytime I can get friction and ideas and drama going together, so this has sort of been floating around in my brain.
	So, with regards to dominance hierarchies, I mean, there's a sorting mechanism that is absolutely essential for survival.
	There's a sorting mechanism that is absolutely essential for survival.
	Everybody wants to aim higher.
	And everybody has to accept where they land.
	Everybody wants to aim as high as they can, and everybody has to accept where they land.
	If you don't aim high, then you settle without checking.
	And if you settle without checking, you can't pair bond.
	You can't pair bond if you think you can do better.
	It's really, really important, right?
	So this is why making women feel like they're princesses and they can get anything and they can do anything and they can have anyone and all of that and letting them subsidize their attractiveness with sexual access, like offering up the V-bomb, that creates women who can't settle.
	And if they can't settle, they can't pair bond.
	Like, I've always said this with regards to my wife.
	Why did I ask her to marry me?
	I had tons of girl servants before.
	Why did I ask my wife to marry?
	Because I looked at her one day, and I'm like, dude, you can't do any better.
	Like, you can't do any better than her.
	And it's been 20 years, and guess what?
	Spoiler, I couldn't have done any better than her.
	No question, no doubt.
	She is the greatest, right?
	She may not be perfect, but she's perfect for me.
	In fact, I think she's generally perfect, but...
	So you have to aim high, right?
	Let's say that you're a guy who's a six, right?
	So you might aim for the eight, nine, or ten.
	And you get rejected.
	And then you maybe can get a seven, right?
	And this isn't just looks, but just in general, the attractiveness thing, right?
	Now, if you aimed for the eight, nine, ten, and you got the seven, and you're a six, you can pair bond.
	Because you're not doubting that, thinking, oh, you know, I settled.
	I could have got me a nine. No, you got someone pretty much at your level, maybe a little higher, maybe a little lower.
	You got someone at your level.
	And that's pair bonding. Now, in order to look at someone and say, I can't do any better, you have to have tried to do better.
	I know this sounds vaguely insulting to my wife, and I don't mean that at all.
	I realized I had not been aiming high enough in terms of quality of character.
	So for dominance hierarchies, the dominance is a sorting mechanism, like the Hogwarts thing, but without the creepy deterministic mysticism.
	So the dominance hierarchy is aim high, bond with who you can get.
	If you aim too low, you can't bond.
	If you aim too high, you can't bond because you get rejected.
	You end up at the tens with the tens, the nines with the nines in general, right?
	That's the way it works. Now, the purpose of society was to have the dominance hierarchies in terms of who gets the quality people to be enacted mostly in the teenage years.
	So, Women are generally engaged in a battle of words, and men...
	So girls are... We're talking teenage girls, teenage boys.
	Teenage girls are mostly engaged in a battle of words, and teenage boys are mostly engaged in a battle of skills and display.
	When I asked the 10 of the school, when I was 12 or 13, I asked the 10 of the school to do what with me?
	To come swimming. Why?
	Because I was an excellent diver.
	You do flips and a half, corkscrews.
	I was an excellent diver. And, you know, I was on the swim team.
	I looked fairly good in a bathing suit.
	So I was like, yes, come to my particular cave of competence.
	And, of course, for her, as a girl, maybe I was 13.
	I was probably 13. No, I wasn't on the swim team until I was 13.
	See, I was 13. Now, for her, of course, self-consciousness, bathing suits, no makeup.
	This is probably the worst place to go.
	But, you know, what the hell? I was inventing the wheel.
	I had to sort of make things up as I went along.
	So boys are engaged in skills display to girls.
	Skills display could also be skills of parents in terms of, look at the big house I've got, this is where I'm coming from.
	A boy who brings a girl to a big house, a sort of expensive house, or picks her up in an expensive car, is saying, look, I come from smart money genes, I come from high IQ genes probably, and I'm going to have good business advice over the course of my life built in for free.
	So, join me.
	We've got an automatic buffer and I'm going to inherit Dad's business or at least his business expertise or whatever.
	So, there's that display.
	And the boys who can't necessarily give expensive houses can maybe, you know, when I was a teenager, there was like the polo shirt thing with the little crocodile on the shirt.
	They were crazy expensive, but if you could afford one, it meant you made money.
	Either yourself or good provider stuff, right?
	So it could be great haircuts, it could be some expensive phone, it could be clothing, anything which shows skills in resource provision.
	Now, teenage girls, of course, like teenage boys, are a little on the shallow side, and so they don't just want to see the effects of resources, they want to see athletic skill, because...
	Athletic skill is very important for girls because it shows coordination.
	It shows dedication.
	And particularly in junior high and high school, athletic sports are where the poor kids can show their potential.
	Because poor kids, for the most part, unless you're really – I mean, I had to have – God, I was in junior high school.
	I had three jobs. Three jobs.
	So I didn't have a lot at this when I had to sort of cut back on the sports and all of that because it just had to work.
	But, you know, the poor kids, they can practice sports a lot.
	They can do all of that stuff.
	So that is something where the poor kids can show off their physical skills, their physical skills.
	Hacky sack was part of this.
	I don't think that's such a big thing anymore.
	Frisbee was kind of like a big thing.
	And sports also shows whether you're ill-tempered, right?
	Because, you know, it's funny.
	I've been in adult in sport leagues.
	I didn't tend to last with them very long.
	But I've been in sports leagues where the guys, I mean, they're middle-aged plus and they're still wildly intense.
	You know, oh, I missed the shot.
	It's like, dude, come on.
	That's a little 14, isn't it?
	Anyway, so it also shows that you can fight hard and you can stay friends with the people who you beat or who beat you and you don't necessarily lord it over them.
	You're a good sport. You don't get too sucky when you lose.
	So there's a lot of physical skills and dedication and, I mean, what are women looking for?
	They're women looking for The girls are looking for boys who can defer gratification and being good at sports is deferring gratification because a lot of sports is kind of, you know, boring drills and training and all that kind of stuff.
	I coached soccer a little bit when I was in my teens and yeah, you just got to do a lot of boring drills and all of that to get good at stuff.
	And so on. And you've got to be able to take coaching, which means you can't be too vain, and you've got to be able to improve and all of that.
	So they're looking for resource access, and they prefer, if they have a choice, the teenage girls, if they have a choice, they will prefer athletics over money.
	Why? Because if you come from a family with money, that gives...
	The in-laws too much power over the marriage.
	Because every girl is going to want a boy who's his own man.
	And if he's getting his money from mom and dad, then there's going to be too much looming power over the marriage.
	From the in-laws. So if she has the choice, she prefers someone who can make it on his own, and that's more tied into athleticism or some hard work in the here and now.
	She's going to prefer a guy who can make it on his own because then he has resources, he has money independent of parental power and control.
	And I'm not saying, of course, that every parent who gives their kids money is power and control, but that's a risk that she has to face.
	So how do the boys express their dominance hierarchies?
	Well, they beat each other. They use burns and also good-natured burns as well.
	You know the cliche that when women get together, they give each other fake compliments.
	When men get together, they give each other fake insults.
	So there's sports.
	There's individual achievement in even localized sports like hacky sack and frisbee and whatever else goes on in the quad these days.
	It could be Pokemons.
	I don't know. At least you're walking or something, right?
	And so the boys have a dominance hierarchy that's very much in display for the girls.
	And of course some of it's obvious in that some of the boys are taller and better hair and more good looking or whatever, right?
	Now, the girls have a different kind of dominance hierarchy in terms of how they sort themselves.
	So the obvious one is figure, face, hair, you know, just the general fertility symbols of a good hip-to-waist ratio, and, you know, the makeup that indicates the flushing that comes from orgasm, and the lipstick, which simulates lips of a woman who's sexually aroused, and all of that. And the hair that's more tousled that looks like she just got out of bed, and then the stuff that shows the shoulders, which looks like a woman with a towel wrapped...
	Or a towel wrapped around her which indicates sexual access.
	So all of that stuff's going down.
	So there's the obvious stuff.
	And look, there is sports and all that for the girls as well.
	So I'm not trying to put it down just to looks.
	But it's very, very important.
	It's the most obvious thing.
	Now, what the girls have to do, though, is the girls of higher quality of character have to find a way to reveal the bitchiness of some of the pretty girls.
	I understand this. That's why it's a war of words.
	So the war of words is the boys are drawn to the pretty girls, but the pretty girls as teenagers often lack character because it's a subsidy given to them by genetics and hormones and evolution rather than things that they have earned themselves through their own particular virtues.
	So the boys are drawn to the pretty girls.
	And that's a problem for the plain good girls, right?
	The ones who'll be good moms, not necessarily just, you know, hot arm candy.
	So the good girls and the hot girls.
	And again, some of the hot girls are good girls and some of the good girls are hot girls.
	But in general, there's kind of the plain girls who have quality of character and the hot girls who don't.
	So the plain girls have to roll their eyes at the boys being drawn to the pretty girls and they have to mock The pretty girls.
	And they have to mock the boys' attraction to the pretty girls.
	So they have to find ways to mock the boys, to eye-roll at the boys chasing the pretty girls, often off a cliff.
	Because, and they'll do that by pointing out the boys' hypocrisy, because the boys who are attracted to the pretty girls will make up all these qualities of character that the pretty girls probably don't possess in order to justify their own pursuit of the pretty girls.
	Oh, but she's really smart and funny.
	It's like, oh yeah, right.
	Yeah, she's got two mounds of smart and funny on her chest, or whatever it is that's going on, right?
	So... The boys have to, in their dominance hierarchies, they have to have a certain amount of honor and integrity.
	You can't cheat in sports.
	You can't, right? So you can't use cheat codes in games or whatever.
	You have to kind of honor integrity.
	It has to be a fair fight. So boys are raised to respect the honor and integrity thing.
	And of course, the girls rely on honor and integrity for the boy not to cheat, particularly if he's high-value male.
	So the girls, the playing girls, will mock the boys, either directly or indirectly, For making up moral qualities that they then feel forced to ascribe to the hot girls in order to justify the boys' pursuit of the hot girls.
	Right? So, I remember this, of course, and I've told this story before.
	I'll keep it very brief. There was a girl I liked.
	Because she was curvy, when I was in junior high school, I was going to ask her to a dance.
	And my friends found out, I can't remember how, that I was talking to some friend, maybe he spread it, that I was going to ask a girl to the dance.
	And they all surrounded me and demanded to know who I was going to ask for the dance.
	And the boys and the girls were around me.
	And I eventually said the girl's name and the girls all rolled their eyes and the boys laughed a little and I said, no, no, no, but it's his personality.
	And then she had this braying donkey laugh, this girl I was going to ask out from across the room.
	I never did end up asking her out, thankfully.
	But yeah, the girls, and I felt humiliated.
	I felt humiliated because I had to make up a virtue when it was just physical attraction.
	And she was not a very high-quality person in terms of personal values, but she was curvy.
	And, you know, I was 14 or whatever, right?
	So that was good enough for me.
	And, you know, you're in the grip of hormones.
	You're just trying to ride this whitewater rapid of hormones as a teenage boy.
	We all know this, right?
	So I felt humiliated because the girls had rolled their eyes and the boys had kind of laughed at me because they knew that I was lying.
	I was lying. I was making up these virtues in order to justify my attraction and pretend that it was something more than it was.
	So the girls have to...
	Have a pecking order appealing to the integrity of the boys and pointing out when the boys are lying to themselves.
	Because the playing girls are basically saying to the boys, if you stop lying to yourself, you'll be attracted to me, not to the hot girl.
	Because I have qualities of character.
	And I don't know if it still is the case, but in the past, you had to at least make some vaguely verifiable claim of qualities of character if you were attracted to a girl.
	Right? Rather than, what's that line from the Taylor Swift song?
	The boy over there with the hella good hair, right?
	Oh, he's got good hair. Okay, well.
	So you have to make up.
	And, of course, you have to be able to tell the hot girl that you're attracted to her for some reason other than her hotness.
	So you have to lie to yourself.
	You have to lie to your friends.
	You have to lie to her. And the only weapon...
	That the playing girls have when you're lying to everyone about why you're attracted to the hot girl is, oh, yeah, well, fine.
	She's hot. She's hot.
	But, of course, if you just say she's hot to yourself and to the hot girl, like, I don't really like you, but you're curvy, so you want to spend some time together, she's going to say no.
	So you have to make up all these virtues, and then you get mocked for making up these virtues, and that is an attempt of the playing girls, the good girls, to reorient the boy's attention from the hot girls to qualities of character.
	And I'm trying to think of another story, but I think I will not say it.
	Too much identifying information.
	So that dominance hierarchy when girls are teenagers is important.
	And so the girls will mock the girls with excessive makeup.
	The girls will mock girls with too tight pants.
	And so there is this war that...
	The girls who show a lot of skin, right?
	I mean, what are the TikToks?
	It's just women in spandex doing goofy little skits, which is just, oh, well, I'm just looking at a woman in spandex or something like that, right?
	And so the battle, the hierarchy is quality of character versus hotness.
	And the girls, they used to have an enforcement mechanism.
	So, you know, the tipping point in society is a very misunderstood and undiscussed phenomenon.
	That if you have a group of pretty crazy people, society in general tries to keep them in a state of rejection in the hopes that they will then conform, right?
	In the hopes that they will then conform to society's norms.
	Again, right or wrong, good or bad, we're just talking about how society used to operate.
	So if you believed that UFOs stole pets, okay, that's kind of a crazy belief.
	You bring that up in general society, people are going to roll their eyes and you're going to be ostracized in general until you stop having that crazy belief or whatever, right?
	And whether, you know, I'm not talking about any particular belief, but just in general.
	But now, of course, with the internet, you can find the 20 other people in your country who believe that space aliens steal pets.
	You can all get together. You can reinforce each other.
	You can have that society.
	But then you all start to feel excluded.
	So then you start hammering at the main society to open the door and let you in.
	And that to not let you in is to be phobic of people who believe that space aliens steal pets.
	And then you write all these articles and you appeal to the sympathy of childless women and eventually...
	Your path to the entrance of society is guaranteed, and then anybody who says, well, no, space aliens don't control pets, this is all nonsense, well, you get people to attack, and then basically there's no longer healing through exclusion or ostracism.
	There is now a fragmentation of society and a bullying of people who point out basic truths.
	So we sort of all understand this.
	So women used to have this when it came to Women who dress slutty, right?
	And they would ostracize them, and they would roll their eyes at any boy who was attracted to them, and because it was a very small minority of women, or girls in schools, you could enforce that, right?
	You can enforce ostracism on a small number of people, and again, I'm not talking about the right or wrong, I'm just talking about the social mechanics of it, but when that small group of people becomes a larger and larger group of people, Ostracism doesn't work.
	Because ostracism only works if you're isolated.
	If you have your own subculture, subgroup, or whatever, then ostracism doesn't work, for better and for worse.
	And so the whole point was to keep the social contagion of too much skin, to keep that from spreading.
	Because once it starts to spread, you can't contain or control it anymore.
	And so there used to be dress codes.
	I remember going to school in junior high and I had a t-shirt.
	Like I said, two t-shirts.
	One said, Disco Sucks, which was kind of true.
	Although I love dancing, but I didn't like disco.
	And I was told to wear that shirt inside out.
	I also had a t-shirt that said, Non-Smokers Do It Without Puffing.
	And I was told to turn that t-shirt inside out.
	There were girls who of course were sent home because their skirts were too short and I remember being on a plane in my business career and having a girl from some school telling me all about how they would actually measure from your knee to your skirt and it had to be a certain length and all that.
	So there was a real goal to keep flesh away from the eyes and hormones of boys for reasons I think we can all understand.
	But once, for a variety of reasons, the dam broke, so to speak, and sluttiness or showing too much skin or whatever, once that became unostracizable or uncontrollable, and I know that there are schools that still do try and control that stuff, but just in general, when I was a kid...
	It wasn't so much skin as it was tight clothing, particularly tight jeans, right?
	Because you can measure the length of a skirt.
	You can't really have an objective measure for the tightness of the jeans, right?
	So those soft fuzzy sweaters, too magical to touch from that old Jay Giles song, Centerfold.
	So yeah, it was tight clothes, but I didn't see bellies.
	There weren't short skirts, but there were tight jeans and tight tops because that's...
	Less enforceable in a way.
	And so the dominance hierarchy was to try and minimize the amount of skin that was shown to boys because it reprograms their hormones to seek hardness over virtue, which destabilizes society in the long run.
	And that dominance hierarchy has broken down now to the point where if you're not showing any skin, you're unlikely to get any male attention at all.
	And so it's sort of a race to the bottom.
	And then when girls become adults, hopefully when they become adults, but when girls become adults, then sexual offering, right?
	I mean, I remember talking to a friend of mine who was much younger, many years ago, and he said, oh yeah, no, if we haven't had sex by the third date, I'd just move on.
	I'm like, third date? What the...
	Like, third date, you barely even know each other.
	And you haven't even had a sexual and medical history, and God knows what crotch goblins are taking up a boat, right?
	So... The dominance hierarchy now is, in a sense, who can show the most skin, who can have the shortest skirt and play innocent, right?
	So it's a deadly combo for boys.
	This is the Britney Spears phenomenon from way back that, you know, she's showing a lot of skin and she's in pigtails, right?
	So the youthful, childlike innocence with adult flesh in full visibility is pretty deadly.
	And women acknowledge this too.
	I mean, I made this case that...
	Fifty Shades of Grey was half about pedophilia because the girl has pigtails and is showing all these characteristics of somebody much younger than she is actually in the real world, but you can sort of look back on that.
	I talked about that in shows in the past.
	So... Now the race is show a lot of skin and offer up sex for the adult women.
	And that's unfortunately just now is a particular race to the bottom.
	And a girl who doesn't want to show a lot of skin and a girl who has some sexual self-respect...
	And it's hard for men to understand the difference between male promiscuity and female promiscuity.
	It's really hard because there's not nearly as much vulnerability in male sexuality as there is in female sexuality where you've got a guy who could be twice your size and twice your weight and Over you, often pinning you down or whatever, in a way, at least not necessarily with his hands, but just in terms of his body and where it is.
	It's just a huge amount of vulnerability, and for women to offer that up to virtual strangers, and three dates as a virtual stranger, is an act of desperation, and it's an act of saying, you're not going to like me if I don't offer up sex.
	I'm not really that interesting, but the vagina I share with half the world's population is the only thing that could be interesting, and that's a form of self-humiliation.
	That's why early sexual offerings in relationship lead to hatred and lead to disintegration.
	I mean, you can have sex early, and then you don't get a relationship for very long.
	If you wait at least a couple of months, you can end up with sex for life.
	So that's sort of the deal that used to be understood, and now it's not understood.
	So as far as the dominance hierarchy goes, then the most attractive age statistically for women is early 20s, sort of 23, 24, and that would make sense, right?
	Because you couldn't really mistake a woman who's 24 for a girl who's 16, and of course the concern is that the girl is saying that she's older than she is, which can get you into legal trouble and all that, and significant legal trouble, so don't ever go in that direction in any way, shape, or form.
	So, yeah, 23-24 is kind of the dominant hierarchy, and then women are at their most attractive.
	And the way that older women have fought back against the dominance hierarchy of women in their early to mid-20s is by creating this myth that older women are just sexually voracious.
	It's the stifless mom kind of thing.
	I don't even want to use the acronym.
	It's so gross.
	But the older women are just sexually voracious and just can't get enough and so on.
	And so this is one way.
	And they're experienced in all this.
	And this is one way that the sexual market value of younger women is sort of attacked by the older women.
	Thank you.
	And then, of course, there has been a whole attempt to reprogram men to be white knights to single mothers in an attempt to raise the sexual market value of single mothers, which is really troublesome.
	if a man really gets in touch with his instincts and his history and his ancestors, so to speak, then he will give single mothers a wide birth because for a man to pour his resources into raising another man's child is pretty disastrous, not to mention the question of authority and discipline.
	And by discipline, I mean authority, not spanking or yelling, but just having authority with your kids, somebody else's kids.
	You're not my dad, that sort of mess.
	And so there has been that effort that...
	There has been an effort to shore up the sexual market value of women by giving them secure government jobs.
	I mean, the significant majority in many countries, the significant majority of government workers are women.
	Women, right? And then they can't be fired.
	Their job requirements are not particularly onerous.
	For teachers, of course, the sexual market value for teachers is up enormously because when the school is out, you know, for some reason and kids getting off school early, it's kind of rough.
	But if you have a teacher for a wife or a girlfriend, then she can take summers off with your kids.
	She can be home earlier. And so it's not, you know, it really raises her sexual market value.
	Government work does all of this, hiring mandates, equal pay for work of equal value, and the equality stuff where you've got to hire more and more women.
	What that does, of course, is it raises women's market value in terms of the fact that they bring in an income.
	Now, I know that for men, income is not nearly as important.
	I think women rated income as 7,000 times more important in a recent survey than men did.
	But nonetheless, if you want a middle-class lifestyle and taxes are so high and both hidden and visible taxes are so high and wages have stagnated since the 1970s, so the perception is there that you need a female income, a woman's income, in order to have A middle-class lifestyle, certainly in a city, although God knows why you'd live in a city these days, especially with what's to come, but that's sort of the tradition.
	So, yeah, you make women more desirable by giving them job security, income, and nothing too onerous, right?
	It's the sort of the pink ghetto of HR. I worked in HR departments in a couple of companies.
	When I was in my early 20s, when I was doing my summer's work from university, I worked in a bunch of HR departments and, my God, they did nothing.
	I mean, oh my God!
	When I was working there, I was like, yeah, let's go to lunch and, oh yeah, we've got a trip to Paris and would you like to come along?
	I'm like, I'm a temp, right?
	Oh yeah, come along.
	It's going to be great. And it's like, oh my God, this is the...
	It's a ball. I mean, this is like a vacation.
	And again, I'm sure that there's lots of hardworking people in HR, but this is sort of my experience from some decades ago.
	It's just like, wow, this is like a fluorescent party in a cubicle.
	I mean, this just was like...
	And then, of course, then when I was on the technical side of the business world and had actual hard deliverables that were hard to deliver and real measurable stuff that profit and loss hung on, the amount of work I had to do versus what was going on in the HR departments, I mean...
	I remember a guy in the HR department many years ago.
	This is Windows 3.1.
	Maybe it was even 3.0.
	And, you know, he spent an hour or so in the afternoon showing me all of the cool animated cursors that he was able to install on his Windows application or his Windows operating system.
	I'm like, dude... Really?
	It's like, well, you know, I'm waiting for somebody to call me back.
	I mean, the idea that when I was in the technical side of the business world that I would fight around doing nothing but non-work, just waiting for a callback would just be incomprehensible.
	And anyway, so yeah, you're trying to pump up the value and marketability of women.
	From this standpoint, of course, hiding basic facts about fertility is how the value of older women is maintained, right?
	So younger women don't want to hear a lot about fertility because it would have them start to plan for longer term rather than just go with the local hottie.
	And Older women don't want to hear about fertility, or rather for their own anxiety, and also because when you start really learning about the fertility cliff, right, that 35 is a geriatric pregnancy, the increased incidence of autism and genetic disorders and stillbirths and all of this kind of stuff,
	right? So when you really understand the fertility fall-off, and it does happen for men too, but it's slower and more subtle, but the fertility cliff that hits women, you know, that was sort of, what was it, voted the worst tweet in history.
	In one poem, my Taylor Swift tweet about, you know, 90% of her eggs are decked by 30, right?
	By the time she's 40, it would be 98% or something like that.
	And that was, you know, just I've honestly...
	I can't remember a time where I've been enraged by the truth or absolutely offended and just going short-circuit on the truth.
	Maybe it's a bit more of a male thing or whatever, but it's just kind of like, oh, I didn't know that.
	Oh, that's interesting. Oh, wow, never heard of that.
	Oh, my gosh, really? As opposed to, you're just an evil person for even mentioning this, you know, whatever.
	How dare you talk about...
	Why are you obsessing about Taylor Swift's eggs?
	It's like... I'm not.
	What do I care about Taylor Swift's eggs?
	I'm just saying that this is kind of a fact.
	So you have to prop up the sexual market value of women in their 30s by relentlessly hiding and attacking, hiding fertility facts.
	And you know, this is true, believe it or not, this is true even of female doctors.
	I remember seeing an article a year or two ago about, this was a fertility doctor saying, I can't even tell you the number of female doctors in their 30s who are coming to me because they're having trouble conceiving.
	And when I point out the basic facts, they're like, wow, I didn't, this is doctors!
	Doctors! So they're even hiding these facts from doctors.
	And of course, if they're hidden from doctors, the doctors aren't giving them, I mean, the female doctors don't even know about the fertility cliff.
	They're not telling their patients, their female patients, right, about any of these things.
	So that's another thing that you do.
	So you say, oh yeah, older women, they like having a lot of sex and you hide the fertility window and that's just a way of propping all of that stuff up.
	And then the dominance hierarchies for women in particular shift from positive to negative.
	So the positive, the reward to the punishment.
	So the reward is sexual access and cuddling and comfort, companionship, all that.
	So the younger woman can offer all of that.
	Now, for older women, it turns from a positive to a negative.
	So the typical arc that men sometimes complain about, like I saw this little comedy routine that some woman talking about, oh, for, you know...
	For men, dating is just the greatest.
	Dating is just fantastic because women are like blowjob central.
	The woman is like, oh, you held the door open for me.
	Oh, you cooked a simple meal.
	And then after marriage, it's like, sorry, we're closed.
	So this... Positive incentive, right?
	The sort of reward mechanism of sex and cuddling and all of that, which is important for men and for women too.
	So it goes from the enticement of a positive to the potential infliction of a negative, right?
	So the typical thing is, you know, lots of sex, this, that, and the other, and love and companionship and all of that, cuddling.
	And then the typical arc is...
	To nagging, right? To eye-rolling, to complaining, to hostile, to the withholding of sex.
	So instead of offering up a positive, which is sexual access, older women will sometimes, all they have to offer is the withholding of a negative, which is criticism or nagging or hostility or door slamming or eye-rolling or coldness or whatever, right? So... In terms of, you know, when people don't have bonding, what do they have?
	When they don't have loving pair bonding, what do they have?
	Well, all they have is manipulation.
	All they have is manipulation.
	Like, if you have to punish your kid, it's because your kid doesn't love you.
	And your kid probably doesn't love you because you started by punishing, but certainly by the time you are punishing, it's because your kid doesn't love you.
	Because if your kid loves you, your kid will listen to you and respect your opinion and you'll be able to negotiate and they will accept on face value a lot of times, a lot of what you say.
	But punishment is a form of manipulation, right?
	It's the infliction of a negative rather than a communication of reason.
	So, yeah, the people who say, well, you know, I punish my kids, it's like, okay, we...
	If you don't have love, all you have is manipulation, right?
	If you don't have patriotism, all you have is propaganda.
	So anyway, so for young women, it's the offering of a positive.
	For older women, this is the Karen phenomenon.
	For older women, it's The withholding of a negative, right?
	Do what I want or I'm going to disapprove of you.
	I'm going to get mad at you. I'm going to get angry at you.
	And it is about the withholding of a positive as well, right?
	The withholding sex and so on.
	And again, I understand that.
	Like, if you're not getting along, a woman and a man should never have sex when you're in an active process of disliking, when you should really work on things until you get back to a positive state of mind and then have all that great makeup sex.
	Anyway, so the dominance hierarchy.
	Then what happens is women...
	Especially single women fade out of view in their 50s.
	They fade out of sexual market value view.
	Now, it's true that there are men who will still date women in their 50s, but they tend to be men in their late 60s or early 70s who have physical frailties and can't do as much and...
	I remember having this show many years ago called Estrogen-Based Parasites about a call in with a woman who basically was in her 50s.
	She was dating a man in his 70s and she was only staying with him so that he would die and leave her the house.
	And I said, your real estate strategy for wealth acquisition is to straddle a Nazgul until he dies.
	And... So they sort of fade from view in general.
	But then what they do, of course, is they hold out for politics, right?
	Because the older woman is still going to have to get attention from politicians.
	And so they get that.
	It's a pretty sad and pathetic level of attention.
	Now, of course, the women who've raised families and their beloved matriarchs, they get attention by being Good moms and grandmoms and great-grandmoms and aunts and so on, right?
	So they get all of that attention.
	But a woman will generally prefer negative attention to no attention.
	You see, again, the Karen phenomenon, which is kind of racist and sexist, but the Karen phenomenon is, I'm lonely.
	That's what I get from that.
	I'm lonely. I would rather have negative attention than no attention.
	And there's a lot of people like that.
	Me, I'd rather have no attention than negative attention, but a lot of people would rather have negative attention than no attention, which is why there are these women on short fuses roaming around society who are generally single or unloved and very volatile because they just need any connection.
	Like, again, I remember talking to a doctor many years ago.
	He said, you know, a lot of my older female patients just come in because they need someone to talk to for 10 minutes.
	They just, you know... They're just lonely.
	And loneliness is like smoking a pack of cigarettes or half a pack of cigarettes a day.
	It's desperately bad for your health.
	And so, like people have bad habits that they can't quit, and contention and fussing and fighting and carrying, these are just bad habits that people can't quit because the alternative is to kind of slowly expire in nature's unloved, leftover, cast-offs, rubbish heap of physical fade-outs.
	Now, older women will, in general, scorn younger women for using their looks, and then the younger women will scorn the older women, who also used their looks when they were younger, for simply being jealous.
	This is very, very common.
	So the women in their 40s are telling the women in their 20s to have some dignity and stop showing so much skin, and the women in their 20s will point out, and now the photos are very obvious and exist, you know, even now on social media and so on, going back.
	That the older women did exactly the same thing with the younger.
	They're just jealous. And so, yeah, that's sort of my brief dominance hierarchies for women.
	I don't want to stretch it out in case people don't find the topic too fascinating.
	All of this stuff gets mutated by the state and by pensions and welfare state and all of that.
	So that is my sort of brief exposition on it.
	If you wanted to give me your thoughts, you can unmute.
	I'm sort of happy to hear. Can you hear me, Steph?
	Okay, great. Yes, that was pretty enlightening.
	I think that now with the culture war going on, I'm not sure, but lately you've been talking about the green-haired women with the cow rings in their nose who do the opposite of show sexual attraction.
	That's quite interesting, too, as they Do whatever they can to avoid any male attention, probably from some underlying fear and childhood abuse.
	So yeah, good talk.
	There is a form of female dominance hierarchy, which is, I don't need no man, right?
	I don't need a man. And, of course, women need men, and men need women.
	Togetherness is our only hope of sanity.
	Isolated, we all go crazy.
	So, yeah, these women, they are saying, it's a form of virtue signaling, because they're saying that it is beneath me to engage in I don't need a man.
	I'm not submitting to the patriarchy.
	I'm an independent, strong woman, and here's the markings to prove it.
	So it is a form of virtue signaling that, I mean, in longer-term views, very quickly gets weeded out of the gene pool.
	And of course, if these girls, and I would assume most of these girls or young women, were raised by single mothers, and if you're raised by a single mother...
	Man, you don't really see any quality men.
	You just don't. I mean, I know this, having been raised myself by a single mother, which is not like my experience is universal, but from a sort of evolutionary biological standpoint, a sexual market value standpoint, it's inevitable.
	My mom had a lot of boyfriends, and they were all pretty trashy.
	Of course they were. Of course they were, because...
	If they were men of high quality, they wouldn't be around my mom.
	Now, I think my mom was a little bit of her own special category of single mother, but I think it's fairly true as a whole.
	So, if you are the daughter of a single mother, you're just not going to see a lot of quality men around.
	You're not going to see men at all, or the men who are around are pretty trashy.
	And I remember one of my mom's boyfriends talking to me, like he was, I still remember this, gosh, like, I don't know, well over 40 years later.
	He was watching TV, and there was a woman who had a big gapped-toothed grin.
	And I remember her saying, ah, she looks like she could eat a ham sandwich sideways through Venetian blinds.
	And I'm like, okay, it's kind of vivid.
	It's kind of trashy. It's kind of vivid.
	A little funny. A little cruel.
	I mean, it's not like her fault.
	She's got gap tooth.
	But yeah, just kind of trashy guys.
	Just kind of low-rent trashy guys.
	And I do remember them kind of bungeeing in to do sort of pseudo-parenting I was just like, oh, come on, please.
	You're not here for me. Don't even try.
	You're here for Mom. And I know what she's like, so don't expect me to give you any.
	And I remember some guy.
	I was probably, I don't know, maybe six or seven years old.
	Some guy with nice hair.
	And he was sitting on the couch, and he was telling me why it was so important to wash my hands.
	He's like, I touched the cast.
	Look, I got germs on me. I touched the deck of cards.
	I got germs on me. I touch a cup.
	I got germs on me. I gotta wash your hands, right?
	And it's like, oh, so you're really good at figuring out dangerous contagions.
	But you're dating my mom.
	It's just like they have no credibility, right?
	So you're just not going to see quality.
	So then, of course, when people say, you know, men are trash or, you know, they read to you from the Scum Manifesto, which is the Society for Cutting Up Men.
	I mean, that's an extreme form and all of that.
	But when they say, yeah, men are kind of trashy, men are kind of worthless, it's like, well, kind of accords with my experience.
	And that's...
	And this is one of the problems with welfare is that welfare creates, I mean, the matriarchal manners, right?
	So welfare creates these bubbles in society where there really are only single moms.
	And then you just get, what do they call them, girlfriend farms in some neighborhoods, right?
	The girls on welfare with kids.
	And it's just trashy stuff all around.
	Trashy stuff from top to bottom, back to front.
	And I think then it's pretty easy to fall prey to propaganda, especially the kind of propaganda that lets your mom off the hook for being able to get or keep a quality man, if that makes any sense.
	All right, well, listen, I won't milk the topic too long.
	We have somebody else who wishes to chat.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	Feel free, you know, I'm just saying in general, you can get a headset for $15, $20.
	Seriously, get a headset for $15 or $20 and...
	If you're going to, you know, put your voice onto a philosophy show to last the ages, it seems to me that $15 might not be the end of the world.
	I don't mean to nag, but I will.
	It just seems somewhat important.
	All right. Madame D, you have a question and or comment.
	Feel free to unmute.
	I am, wait.
	I am, I can do this.
	I feel I can. Yes, go ahead.
	Unmute. I'm on yours. Hi, Steph.
	I just had a quick question.
	I'm sorry, Diane, do you have a cold?
	Just kidding. If you could up your volume a smidge, I'd appreciate it.
	It's Dana, not Diane.
	Oh, Dana. Okay.
	Well, that's a nice ambidextrous name.
	My apologies. Please go ahead.
	Yeah, I can thank my mom for that.
	She's Danish. I never got made fun of that in school.
	No, I never got called Stephanie either.
	It never, ever happened. So I just had a quick question, Steph.
	You touched on it just briefly before.
	So one thing I've noticed in my community is a lot of young, attractive women Palling around with older single women and I'm just curious why there's that exclusivity.
	It just seems unnatural to me.
	Okay, so what sort of age range?
	I don't know what your community is, but what sort of age range are we talking about?
	So, for example, a mid-50s woman has two or three female friends in their mid-20s, and they all get together.
	They're all members of the same church, but I never see any men with them.
	They don't seem to date.
	And it's just curious to me.
	I don't know.
	It just seems very strange phenomenon to me.
	Maybe I'm missing something.
	Do you know what they talk about?
	What is the coven up to?
	I can't get in edgewise because the older female tends to do all the manly things.
	She'll mow the younger females lawns, blow their leaves, etc.
	Uh, and the older woman, she's unmarried?
	Correct. Is she gay?
	Is she gay? I would imagine so, but they all are members of the same Christian church.
	Oh, okay, well, I mean, obviously, if there's an older gay woman, she would love to have young, attractive females around, right?
	Sure, that was my assumption, but I just thought maybe I was a little ignorant here, so I thought I'd ask for your advice, Steph.
	No, I mean, I can certainly understand that.
	Yeah, I mean, I won't get into any particular stories.
	But yeah, I would imagine that the older woman is keeping the younger women around, even if they're not gay, right?
	She can fantasize about them or whatever, right?
	That would not be, I think, outside the bounds of human sexuality in any way, shape, or form.
	So that would be my guess.
	But of course, it could be something much more innocent, but that would be my first assumption.
	All right. Thanks, Steph.
	You are very welcome. And if you ever crack this mystery, if you ever get on the inside of the inside, just call back and let us know.
	Free books, almostnovel.com, justpoornovel.com, thegodofatheists.com, and I would really appreciate it.
	You've got to check these books out. They're so good.
	They're so good. And I will say, on a little bit of arm-twisty, back-patting kind of stuff, that I think I did a pretty damn fine job of the audiobook reading as well.
	Oh! Wait!
	Wait! Wait for Nate!
	We had somebody else who wishes to speak.
	Go ahead. Just unmute Mr.
	N. I had an epiphany last night.
	Women have bought home to the workplace.
	Therefore, they not only must go home, but more importantly, they want to go home.
	How does that sound?
	Well, it sounds like a conclusion without an argument, so I don't really know what to say.
	Oh, okay. Sorry.
	Okay. Anyway, just thought I'd share that.
	And the second thing is...
	A lot of people blame men for the current sort of situation of women having rights.
	In 1974, I saw my dad dragged out of his own home and I just feel like the Silent Generation men didn't capitulate.
	They were sort of executed by the law.
	What's your thoughts on that?
	Look, I understand.
	And, you know, the skepticism, you know, I remember my mother, when I was in my teens, we would go for dinner and she would make a list of everything she wanted to take my dad for, and it was quite a considerable list of things and all of that.
	So, look, we can get mad at each other if we want, or we can understand that power corrupts everyone.
	Sure. Right? So we can sit there and say, well, women shouldn't do this, and the family court system is unjust.
	It's like, well, of course it is.
	Because power corrupts.
	And power corrupts men in certain ways.
	Power corrupts women in other ways.
	Power in men tends to lead to promiscuity.
	Power in women tends to lead to theft, to financial exploitation, for the sake of children, if we want to put it that way.
	So... I feel – maybe this is aging out or whatever – but I feel a lot more sympathy for people who've made bad decisions in a bad system because the system is just – the incentives are so bad in the current system.
	The incentives are just so terrible.
	And again, you know, you can call waiters in the Soviet Union under Stalin just lazy, or you can say, well, the system is so bad, and people respond to incentives, and most people take their cues for action from external incentives, not internal standards.
	I mean, the goal of philosophy is to change that, but, you know, it's a pretty slow and laborious process at times, so...
	Getting mad at women for the fact that power corrupts is...
	I mean, to me it just doesn't make any particular sense.
	So we can get mad at women and say, well, you shouldn't have done this and you should have done that.
	And there's nothing wrong with that criticism for sure, but the state has granted a huge amount of power to women because women outlive and outvote men.
	And women have a stronger incentive for resource transfer.
	Yeah.
	Mouths to feed, right?
	So she can't afford principles if her children are hungry.
	I mean, you could say in the abstract she should, but that's just not how most people work and how most people operate.
	So you've got to rely on the sort of bell curve of the majority, right?
	Some people will do the wrong thing no matter what, and some people will do the right thing no matter what.
	But very few people are uninfluenced by all of the incentives, the punishments and rewards that occur.
	Human beings respond to incentives, the basic principle.
	Of economics. So, yeah, there's a lot of women who are making a lot of bad decisions, but they are heavily subsidized for making those bad decisions, and they really can't afford to make bad...
	Like, what does a woman do? She's a single mom.
	What is she going to do about the welfare state?
	She's got three kids by two different dads.
	How objective can she possibly be about the welfare state?
	Ah, but she should be on principle.
	But, you know, it's like asking companies addicted to the military-industrial complex for their views on Foreign policy.
	As aggressive as possible, please, right?
	I mean, the people who were sending all the weapons to Ukraine, what's your view on funding Ukraine?
	It's like, yeah, it seems like a moral right thing to do because Ukrainian democracy, which was severely hammered by the U.S. in 2014, apparently has become super important.
	Yeah, so you can get mad at people or you can get mad at the system.
	And I think that the system is the thing that we should focus our moral energies on because we're all just trying to survive in this Topsy-turvy, crazy, reverse-gravity human zoo that we're stuck in.
	All right. We have one other person who wanted to chat.
	HC, if you wanted to unmute, I am all ears.
	Okay, so I arrived a little late, so we might have addressed this before, but the other day I was speaking with a group of people, and most of those people were above average women.
	So they were complaining about the modern man, that the modern man doesn't want to engage into any deep relationship or any serious relationship.
	And at the same time, they were also complaining that Giving examples of their own relationships that the men were too needy.
	So it's kind of like a bipolar behavior because at the same time, they want distance from men engaging in intimate acts like sex.
	And at the same time, they want the men to just stay away from them like a casual relationship.
	Then they complain about the men being too far from them.
	So it's kind of like a...
	A very hard to understand riddle for me because it's like maybe women just have too much right now.
	They have too much availability for men and attention for men that they can just complain about anything that they're feeling at the moment.
	So maybe if men simply decide to not give them as much attention or just give more attention to women that actually deserve this kind of thing, That might improve in the future, but the way I see things now, it's just like women just have so much attention from men that they can discard them like cattle, basically.
	They just pick whatever they need and then discard them and then complain that the guy didn't attend to their needs.
	So I would just like to hear your thoughts about...
	How can the modern male survive in the female jungle right now?
	Because the way I see it, it's never enough.
	You can never satisfy women in any way.
	Right. Okay, so I want to make sure I understand your first thesis.
	So women are complaining that men aren't committed in relationships, but women are also complaining that men are too clingy?
	Yeah, basically that.
	Okay. I don't view that as a contradiction at all, which doesn't mean I'm right.
	I'm just saying that from my perspective, that's not a contradiction at all.
	Okay. Evolutionarily speaking, what is the purpose of a relationship for a woman?
	To have babies.
	Can she feed those babies with her own efforts?
	No. In general, I guess.
	Right. So she wants a man who is passionately attached to her, who ignores her a good bunch of the time.
	Why is that? Because that would imply his spending his time getting resources, I believe.
	Right. So, when a woman says, I want men to be into deep, passionate relationships, she's saying, I want the man to be pair-bonded with me.
	Now, how does that translate to a woman's criticism if a man is too clingy?
	That they are not, like, an alpha male?
	Yeah, that they're just staring at the woman, which doesn't do anything to get resources for her children.
	Yeah, I get that. I get what you mean.
	But what I... No, no, no.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on. Wait, wait, wait.
	Slow down, bro. Slow down.
	Did I not just solve your first problem?
	Yeah. Okay, then, you know, give me a little acknowledgement, right?
	I mean, if you want people to do things for you, at least say, oh, as opposed to...
	No, no, no. I get that. It's like, well, you didn't get that literally three minutes ago, right?
	Right. Okay, so I'm not trying to be a beggar here, but, you know, if I just solved a big conundrum for you, at least say, oh, that makes sense, or oh, thank you, or anything like that.
	But don't just brush past like we didn't just do anything.
	All right. So, you had another question, though, around women getting too much male attention?
	Yes. And what was that?
	I asked you, basically, what is the proper Because the way I see it, at least, women just get too much male attention.
	And of course, it has always been like this.
	Women are privileged to pick whatever male they want, and they just have to wait to be engaged, to choose who they wish to be with.
	But what I mean is that nowadays...
	With the state supporting them and things just not being like they used to be in the past in terms of resources and stuff, the way I see it is that men are being seen more like playthings to women in general, of course.
	I mean, of course, there are different women and different men.
	I know that men like to play around as well.
	But the way I see it is that basically...
	I don't know how to handle...
	Okay, okay, listen, I get where you're coming from.
	Okay, so... Okay, okay.
	Did you have a father around when you were growing up?
	Yeah, he was kind of absent, but he was kind of around as well.
	Did your father ever make fun of your mother?
	Yeah, occasionally.
	And how would he make fun of her?
	I mean, look, everyone has frailties.
	Everyone has things that are kind of funny about their personality.
	So how did your father mock or make fun of your mother?
	I'll just give you an example.
	My mother used to break a lot of dishes and cups and basically any fragile...
	Stuff like that. So he would make fun of her that she was like an airhead or something like that.
	Okay, now in your relationships, whether it's romantic or whatever, right?
	Let's just say your romantic relationships, or if you're attracted to a girl, do you feel comfortable mocking her?
	Not really. Like, I feel comfortable, like, making jokes with my most intimate friends.
	Like, maybe toxic jokes, I guess.
	But whenever it's someone that I really like, not really.
	Okay, when it comes to your male friends, do you feel comfortable mocking your male friends?
	Yes. Okay, so you feel comfortable mocking your male friends.
	And you don't feel comfortable mocking a girl you're attracted to, right?
	Correct. Okay.
	Why do you feel comfortable mocking your male friends?
	In other words, what does it say about your view of your male friends that they can handle you mocking them?
	The way I perceive it Is that they...
	Because I don't do this with people.
	I don't have much...
	Oh, no, no, no. Please, don't give me the caveats.
	Please, I beg you. Don't give me the caveats.
	We understand that you don't do this to strangers on the bus.
	Okay, I get that. Okay, okay.
	So just stay with the question.
	What does it say? Because they can handle it.
	They can handle it, right? Yeah, they can handle it.
	Okay, so what do you think happens if you...
	And I'm not talking about mocking someone in a cruel way.
	But, you know, making fun.
	My family has a bunch of running gags about me.
	You know, like I can be somewhat long-winded, believe it or not, and sometimes I can be a bit of a poor loser and, you know, just little foibles, nothing major, just a little normal hiccups in a personality.
	And... They will make fun of me.
	And that's fine. I think it's a mark of affection.
	It's saying, I accept that you are not perfect and enjoy your company.
	I love you anyway. So let's say that you're attracted to a girl and she says or does something kind of silly.
	Can you poke gentle fun at her?
	Yeah. I thought you felt a little uneasy mocking her.
	You said you'd feel uneasy doing that?
	I mean, like a gentle, gently poking fun, I can do that for sure.
	But like mocking her, probably not.
	Okay, but you would mock your male friends, right?
	Yes. Okay. So you think that women are much weaker or more sensitive?
	Like, what would happen if you mocked a female in the way that you mock your male friends?
	She would probably be very angry or upset.
	And why would she be angry or upset?
	Because it would probably make her think that I'm not respecting her.
	Well, do your male friends think that?
	No. In fact, you mock your male friends because you respect them.
	Because they're not going to get sucky or blow up.
	Because they can take it. Yeah.
	So you're attracted to women who are emotionally volatile and have fragile egos.
	Well, that's no good, right?
	Right. Okay, so...
	Why are you attracted to women who are immature, volatile, and insecure?
	I'm not sure I have the answer for that.
	Well, where's the first place to look?
	Family. Your mother!
	Right? Yeah.
	Was your mother thin-skinned?
	Yeah, I believe it's fair to say she is.
	Okay. Did she misinterpret jokes or was she hypersensitive?
	Did she suddenly turn on people if she felt slighted?
	You know, this kind of stuff. Yeah.
	Sometimes my dad would make a comment or maybe someone else would make a comment about something and she would take it personally or would take it badly.
	Right, right.
	Well, so that's the template that you're working with.
	That if you mock a woman, she can reject you and she might, right?
	Whereas if you mock your male friends or whatever, that's fine.
	In fact, if you didn't, it would be a mark of disrespect, right?
	You can't joke around him, he's so sensitive, right?
	Yeah. Okay, so your father chose a woman who...
	And I don't want to make this an absolute, but sometimes really couldn't take a joke, right?
	Yes. Okay.
	So, if you want a woman like your mother, then don't ever mock a woman.
	Whereas if you want a woman who's maybe a little bit more robust and mature and certain of herself and of her own value...
	Then, mock her. It's a test, right?
	It's a test. You know, women have the, what do they call the shit test, right?
	This is a test. And I'm telling you this as, you know, I'm probably not entirely the opposite of alpha or whatever, right?
	So, no, you couldn't be able to make fun of a woman.
	Because everybody has their foibles.
	Everybody has their little hiccups.
	Making fun of people can be an enjoyable way of helping them improve, of helping them, you know, like if you have a woman in your life who's, you know, maybe a little tense about mess in the household, like if you have a woman in your life who's, you know, maybe a little tense about mess in the And it doesn't mean that you're mean and you hate her.
	It's not suppressed anger.
	It's just funny, right?
	And you have to, have to, have to, have to, have to be able to make fun of someone because that's a mark of respect.
	And I'm not talking relentless, endless, you know, half put-downs.
	I'm not talking about anything pathological.
	But if the woman can't take a joke, then you're going to forever be biting your lip, biting your tongue, watching what you say.
	You won't be spontaneous.
	You won't be yourself. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because...
	You just mentioned about not being myself, because I grew up basically surrounded by a kind of toxic environment.
	So I kind of got used to people making fun of others and stuff like that.
	So eventually I ended up absorbing that kind of thing.
	And of course, I don't try to be mean for no reason to people, but I have to recognize that I might sometimes make fun of people without the intention because of the way I just grew up to be.
	And so I guess if I have to keep being careful to not step on anything around someone, then I'm not really being myself.
	If you treat someone who's not fragile as fragile, it's an incredible turn-off.
	Because it means that you don't see, recognize, and interact with them in the present based on who they are.
	In other words, you're saying, well, all women are like my mother, and so I can't ever make a joke at a woman's expense.
	I can't ever mock her.
	And I'm not talking like, you know, like horrible sibling teasing, like where you just try and drive the other person crazy.
	I'm not talking about anything like that. I'm good-humored, good-natured, out of love, right?
	Out of love. So if a woman is robust, has good self-knowledge, knows her foibles, and you're treating her like she's made of glass and she can't take a joke and she's hypersensitive, it's an incredible turnoff for her.
	Because she knows that you're not able to deal with people empirically in the moment, but you're bouncing off history.
	And so you can't connect with her.
	Because you're trying to connect with her like she was your mom.
	But she's not like your mom.
	And so she's just going to walk on.
	Yeah, makes sense.
	I mean, I couldn't make any jokes at my mother's expense, my gosh.
	I mean, she had the sense of humor of your average Hiroshima drop-off.
	So I couldn't, like, that wasn't a thing I could do.
	And of course, you know, everyone's had this, most guys who you date around, you have this experience of like, it's kind of fun, it's kind of fun, and then suddenly it's just not.
	Suddenly you've crossed the line and it's like they're offended and upset and it's like, I've never had that with my wife.
	And she'll make fun of me for sex.
	She's got this wild hair.
	Like it's unbelievably thick.
	And it's like the Alice hair from Dilbert.
	It's like a ziggurat. It's like a pyramid.
	The joke is together that she and I produced a person with normal hair because I'm bald and she has this insane thatch of hair.
	And my daughter will refer to her as the shrubs from time to time.
	I say it's a polygamous relationship.
	There's It's an open marriage with my wife, myself, and her hair, like it's just a third party.
	It's wild. And I take great delight in her hair.
	She has wonderful hair.
	But, you know, it's the subject of a couple of jokes.
	And, of course, there's a couple of jokes about me being bald or whatever it is, or, you know, husbandly gassy or whatever it is.
	It's just things, right?
	They're not big problems.
	It's not a big criticism. It comes out of love.
	And it's just an acceptance of the natural hiccups of a personality or things that whatever, right?
	You know, my wife and I are home a lot, of course, and so we make jokes with my daughter about, you know, how she just never seems to want any time alone and just, you know, constantly, you know, it's like, you know, parents, you're stalkers, you know.
	It's just funny. It's funny because this is a situation, a life situation that we sort of set up or how it goes.
	So with women, it's a test.
	Are you robust?
	Yeah. Can I be honest with you?
	Can I be myself about you?
	If you think something, can you say it?
	Or do you have to censor yourself?
	Do you have a First Amendment in love?
	Okay. Because, you know, most censorship doesn't come from the government, right?
	Obviously, most censorship comes from those around us and, you know, corporations and this and the other, right?
	But can you just be honest with someone?
	And if you can't just be honest and spontaneous with someone, why on earth would you want to pursue them?
	You're pursuing self-silence.
	And you don't want to treat people as fragile.
	If you treat people as fragile, guess what?
	You're only going to end up with fragile people in your life.
	And that's exhausting.
	Fragile, insecure, volatile people are exhausting.
	You will never be able to get anything done in your life if you're surrounded by those people because they'll consume all of your time, energy, and resources and thoughts.
	That's no good.
	You need robust, strong people who can get things done.
	You know, one of the things I love about my wife is she's foundationally competent about things.
	You know, like, I've known people who had relationships with girls, it's like, well, no, she really, she's just nervous of the phone.
	It's like, oh my God, she's nervous of the phone?
	What is it, possessed? I mean, that's just exhausting.
	How are you going to have a life with someone? Anyway, so, That's sort of the one thing that I would say is if you can't make fun of it, because here's the thing too.
	The reason why you want to put this test out, which is, can I make fun of you?
	Can I not take you so seriously?
	Because if you come across as a pussy beggar, that's a turn-off to any competent, strong woman, a total turn-off.
	Now, a weak woman, a manipulative woman, if you won't sort of make fun of her or treat her as a robust, independent individual, an empowered woman or whatever, if you won't treat her that way, a strong woman will find it gross.
	Whereas a weak woman will be like, oh, great, I can manipulate him now.
	He really needs me.
	Oh, wow, he's really simping me.
	He's really thirsty. He really wants me.
	That gives me power. Whereas a strong woman will be like, yeah, I'm great to spend time with, but I kind of want you out there succeeding in the world because I want to have kids and be able to feed them.
	Because a woman just doesn't want you staring at her.
	Weak women will want that level of male attraction And male simping and male self-erasure because it feeds their ego, because their ego is hungry, because it's weak.
	Whereas a strong woman will not want you to just worship her.
	She'll want you to be out there doing things in the world so she can admire you.
	She wants to admire you, not have you just stare at her portrait like the acolyte of the oldest gap-toothed god or something like that.
	So, yeah, just be direct and make fun of her and don't treat her as fragile.
	That's just going to drive strong women away and draw women into dominate and control you.
	I see. Can we agree that more thick-skinned people, not just women, are getting kind of rare to find, though?
	Well, sure, but we've got a very thin-skinned culture based upon verbal abuse, aggression, and hysteria.
	So people are raised in these antiseptic, arid bubbles.
	And then they get out in the world, they get sick all the time, right?
	So people are raised with all their feelings being hyper-taken care of, and everyone's so sensitive, and nobody wants to get upset, and the truth of something doesn't matter.
	It's how it makes people feel.
	I mean, okay, we've gone a little claustrophobic, matriarchal, hysterical these days.
	It's like we're living in Blanche DuBois' brain or something.
	But yeah, so robust people are a little tougher to find.
	But people who are robust, I think, have generally been tough to find.
	They were a bit more camouflaged before because the robustness was them conforming to some social or religious norm that wasn't their own.
	Okay, so let's say they're twice as hard to find or 10 times harder to find.
	Well, that means that you've got to waste less time.
	You've got to waste less time looking for where they're not.
	If you're looking for something that's hard to find, eliminating where they're not is really important.
	And so you just be honest and direct and say what's on your mind.
	And if people like you for that, fantastic.
	And it will be rare that people like you just for that.
	But that's all the more reason why you've got to do it because then it eliminates...
	If you're looking for something, you don't want to look every place you know it's not.
	You want to look on the places where it is.
	If you lost something in the house, you don't go look at the restaurant down the street or at the convenience store or deep in the garden, right?
	You look in the house. So, yes, they're hard to find, which means you've got to eliminate the people who aren't that way very quickly, and you can do that very easily just by being honest and direct.
	Mm-hmm. Yeah, it makes sense.
	And, you know, sorry, the last thing I'll say is that women also are getting exposed to an unbelievably horrifying view of this masculinity, right?
	Like, this OnlyFans stuff where women are saying, oh, yeah, no, I saw this article.
	This woman said, oh, I can pay my rent in about 10 minutes on OnlyFans.
	I mean, that's pretty appalling for women to see.
	Now, again, this is not all men.
	This is men, I think, in hot pursuit of their own masturbatory fantasies or whatever, right?
	But But seeing how many resources men are willing to throw at a woman who they will never meet is pretty appalling to women.
	Because men throwing resources is supposed to be at the mother of their children.
	Not at some pixelated, half-inflated, duck-lipped, silicon-boobed plaything on the internet, right?
	And so, you know, because men are like, oh, female nature, blah, blah, blah.
	It's like, well, you know, how about looking at how women, what are they seeing from male nature these days?
	Some pretty woman posts something on the internet and it's just thirst, thirst, thirst underneath, right?
	Just thirsty, thirsty, thirsty underneath.
	And they know that the success of OnlyFans is largely men throwing resources at women and they see strip clubs, which is men looking at the butts of usually heavily abused women.
	And so, you know, male...
	Nature has not exactly been glowing on the heavy bombardment of the welfare state, pornography, and eternal adolescence.
	So, I mean, because from a male perspective, we're like, oh, well, female nature, this, that, and the other.
	It's like, I understand that.
	There's criticisms to be made. I criticize the system more than the people.
	But, man, what do you think it's like?
	For women to look at what modern culture says about male sexuality and male capacity for romance and bonding, it's pretty wild.
	It's pretty wild. You know, when female celebrities get their intimate photos fished and hacked and leaked and men are all over it, the fappening, you know, that's pretty gross.
	What is it? Time to penis in any ambiguous environment?
	How long does it take for men to draw a male penis and so on?
	And I remember seeing there's this software and I guess a webcam that tracks your eyeballs.
	And there was a guy, there was a curvy woman online, and there was a guy who's like, I'm not going to look at her boobs, I'm not going to look at her boobs, and then where does the laser immediately go?
	And again, so it's not like women are having a glorious view of this majestic, heroic Howard Rourke slash Michelangelo's David male sexuality kind of stuff.
	It's kind of a sewer out there in terms of male sexuality for a lot of men, and women can see it pretty clearly.
	The amount of delusion that men tell themselves in order to remain thirsty, like throwing your money at some online woman or this sugar daddy stuff, it's all pretty hideous for women to see.
	For you to say, well, you know, where are the good women?
	I mean, women got a pretty good set of questions there as well.
	Where are the good men?
	Where are the good men? Because, you know, they look across and there's still a lot of good men out there, still a lot of good women out there.
	But, you know, I think have a shred of sympathy for the women and what they're facing in the dating market as well.
	Oh yeah, that makes sense.
	I mean, I don't really think a woman doing OnlyFans or anything like that is empowering.
	But of course, there would be no activity like that if it wasn't for men throwing money at them.
	So that's the root of the problem, in my vision at least.
	Well, it's mutual. Yeah, I get what you mean.
	Men have an instinct to throw money at attractive women in the hopes of pair bonding and having babies, just as women have...
	The desire to throw attachment at men giving them resources, right?
	So if an attractive male politician is offering women, hey, I'll pay for your student loans, even if he's 80, I guess, or whatever, right?
	But it's like women have a very tough time saying no to that.
	And, you know, half-naked women asking men for money, men have a tough time saying no to that for obvious evolutionary reasons that we weren't exactly designed for the internet.
	But yeah, it's tough.
	It's tough. And There's a lot of criticism in the manosphere towards women and how female nature has adapted to the current legal and financial environment.
	But, come on, it's pretty rough for the women out there as well, trying to find a guy who hasn't been corrupted by furry porn from the age of eight onwards or whatever, right?
	So, it's pretty rough all around, and that's why I think we've got to have this real sorting mechanism.
	We've got to be pretty efficiently down, figuring out who's worth our time and who's not.
	For sure, for sure. All right, well, I'll stop here.
	So thanks again, everyone, for dropping by today.
	A great, great, deep pleasure and honor to chat for, well, I guess I'll have moved the earlier part to the end here so people didn't accidentally click off, thinking there was just silence here, but freedomain.com slash Nate.
	Lots of love from up here. Talk to you soon.

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