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Oct. 17, 2022 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:38:56
STOP HAVING SEX! Freedomain Call In
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Time Text
Hello, can you hear me? Yes, sir.
Go ahead. Yeah, so I'm having a little bit of an issue of the past relationship.
I don't do little bits of issues.
I don't do little bit of an issue.
I'm just kidding. Is it a big issue or a little issue?
No, it's not a little bit. Okay, good.
I just wanted to check, you know?
So go ahead. Yeah, yeah.
It's not small. I wouldn't talk if it was a little issue.
But, you know, it's just like it was a great relationship.
We broke up, whatever it is. I'm just having a hard time just getting over it.
And I know it's over. And I know, you know, I accept the reality of things.
But it's just like a painful experience.
And I'm always thinking about this woman nonstop.
And it's affecting my whole entire life.
And I don't want that. And I felt that over time it'd get better, but it hasn't gotten better.
It's the same. So I'm not sure really, at this point, what to do.
I'm lost, to be honest.
If it's any consolation, I've been there.
I'm sorry, I think we're a little bit out of sync here.
No, I've been in the situation that you're in, at least I think I have, so I've got some thoughts about it, but I don't want to eclipse your experience with my story, so why don't we just start off?
Just tell me the history of the relationship.
Well, I mean, like, I met this girl.
We had an amazing experience.
We laughed a lot. She's very smart, very attractive.
A lot going for her.
Just, you know, witty. And, like, we synced in a very deep level, right?
So, like, I guess along the way, like, you know, like, she had an issue because, you know, she lives in the U.S. I'm from the U.S. also.
And, like, she didn't have...
Documents, right? She was legal, let's say.
And she had to get married. I'm like, you know, I don't know about that.
I don't know if I want to get married because I gave her all my reasons and everything.
And at some point towards the end, the whole thing went sour, the relationship.
It went very bad. And I think that might have been the reason for that, I think.
Okay, so where did you meet and how did you, did you meet online or how did you, and how long did you go out for?
I met her online.
We were dating for six months and it was an amazing six months.
Like really, it was like the best I've ever had in a woman.
I was really just, we were completely happy.
She was happy as was I, you know, and, you know, but I just think that, you know, towards the end, like, you know, we, I had an issue with her also because she caused an accident and I had a shoulder injury because of her.
So I kind of blamed her subliminally for that.
I'm sorry, she caused an accident.
What happened? I know you're a little nervous and all of that, but if you could just slow down your speaking a little because the sound is not.
And also you keep talking over me while I'm talking.
So I know you're a little nervous, but just try and take a deep breath.
We've got time. But yeah, tell me what happened with the accident.
Yeah, like I was in the beach one day.
I do kite surfing so that, you know, if you've never heard of that, it's a surfboard with a big kite in the air and you surf the water basically.
And, you know, she found that very exciting.
I was showing her a couple of things.
And, you know, lo and behold, she caused an accident for me where, you know, I flew like 10 feet in the air and I landed on the beach with my shoulder, you know, so I was injured.
How on earth does she cause her?
I don't know much about kite surfing, but how did this accident come about?
Well, what happens, a kite is attached to lines, which attaches to a bar, and to your waist, right?
So the bar itself is how you maneuver the kite to make, you know, go forward, go back, and different things.
And she wanted to touch the bar, and she pulled it.
And, you know, accidentally, of course, and I flew like 10 feet in the air because of that, you know.
And, you know, she caused an accident for me, and it took me a year to overcome the shoulder injury.
My gosh, what happened to your shoulder?
That's quite an injury.
Yeah, it was a rotator cuff injury.
It's because the shoulder is where the impact was on the sand.
That's where it landed and that caused the trauma on the ligaments.
I was taking therapy for almost a year to get over that.
I couldn't even move my arm.
I'm sorry to interrupt again.
I just want to make sure I understand.
I'm sure that it is the case, but how is this her fault if you're the instructor?
I mean, she doesn't know what she's doing.
You're trying to instruct her. How does this end up being her fault if I'm teaching my daughter how to ride and she bikes into me?
Isn't that sort of my fault?
You're right. It was my fault entirely.
I'm saying only that she was the catalyst of it.
I blame myself for letting her do that, and she didn't know any better, and I should have known better, but it was my fault.
But nonetheless, I was still blaming her for that, even though I knew logically.
Wait, hang on, hang on. Sorry.
How are you blaming her?
Like, step me through how that works logically.
I mean, I understand the emotions.
Like, we get frustrated or whatever, and we have a tendency, but, you know, it wasn't rational.
So how did you end up just blaming her?
Well, I mean, I kind of like, I said that she caused it, basically.
And not that she wanted to do it, but, you know, she did cause the accident.
It was her action that caused it.
But, again, I told her it's my fault for not, you know, for letting you do that.
You know, letting you do what you did.
So I blame myself for it, but still, I blame her.
But hang on, how can she cause it if it's your fault?
Well, I'm just saying what happened in the end.
I'm not saying it's rational.
I'm saying it's my fault, but she was there, so she participated in the accident, let's say.
Sorry, could you just remind me how you met?
I met her online. I met her through a dating application.
And when you, was she pretty or is she pretty?
Is that sort of what drew you to her in the first place?
And how long after you contacted, did you find out she was not, was without papers, as they used to say?
Yeah, I mean, she's a very attractive girl.
She's from South America, beautiful.
I think maybe two months after the relationship, I learned about that, which I wasn't happy about that, but I was already deeply into her, so it was not so easy.
To leave at that point. Okay, hang on, hang on.
Sorry. Jaw dropping a little bit here.
So, she lied to you for two months about her legal status in the country.
Well, we never talked about it.
So I'm not sure.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
That's a lie by omission.
Clearly.
Right.
Okay. I mean, if she had three kids...
By three different guys.
And she never mentioned it at all.
She'd say, hey, well, you'd never asked me if I had three kids by three different guys.
Oh, no, no, no.
Come on. That's a complete soul-crushing falsehood right there.
Again, I'm happy to be corrected, but that's certainly how I would approach it.
Well, I wasn't happy when she told me that.
And had I known beforehand, I would have never even initiated conversation.
I just don't do that.
I stay away from those types of situations.
But it happens.
And then when you're in the middle of it...
Wait, wait, sorry, hang on. No, no, I don't like the language.
What do you mean, it happened? Well, when she told me at that point, I was already emotionally involved with her, so it wasn't so easy for me to say...
No, no, I get that, but it's not just it happened.
She made a conscious choice to lie to you about something essential.
Like, it didn't just happen, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
And how did it come out that she told you?
You know, you were just kind of laying in bed, talking, and she was telling me her story, how, you know, what happened when she came here, and how she came here, and what's happening with her life, and, you know, her struggles with, you know, just making it all work, you know, because she came from Brazil, and, you know, 11 years old, her mom brought her here, and, like, It's been a struggle since.
You know, she's not Brazilian. She's not American.
She's nothing, basically.
So, you know, it was more of that, I guess, heart-to-heart conversation she was having with me and how, like, you know, things were just difficult.
And I'm sorry to be so blunt, but how long did you date each other before you slept together?
Yeah. I mean, we were talking on the phone for a month only because I was away at that point.
But when we came back, you know, the first night we had sex.
And was your theory that this was going to be a good thing, or you were just horny and I don't know what, right?
Yes to all the above. No, but, like, you know, I mean, we hit it off.
We were on the phone talking for a good month, you know, like, just enjoying each other's banter and company.
And when we met, like, there's a lot of attraction at that point, you know.
And what's your cultural background?
I felt it was natural. I'm Greek.
Greek. Okay, got it, got it.
Okay. Do you share, in terms of values, do you share, I mean, the religion may be different?
Is it Catholic, Greek, Orthodox, or like atheist, atheist, or agnostic?
Well, I mean, I do believe in religion.
I do believe in, you know, the higher powers.
I'm not really... Deeply into the, I guess, I mean, I work Greek Orthodox, and that's how I was raised, and I do appreciate the whole philosophy of the religion in a way, but I'm not, like, literal into that.
And neither she.
She's Catholic, I think.
She's Catholic? Yeah, I believe she's Catholic.
You believe she's Catholic?
What do you mean? Believe she's Catholic?
We never spoke about religion because that was not really an important topic for us.
We didn't speak about it.
Well, I mean, I'm sorry.
What do you mean it wasn't a really important topic for us?
Do you think that the relationship is just about you two?
Yeah, what else is there? I mean, there's kids to raise.
There's families to integrate.
It's a kind of funny thing that we have.
Relationships are just two people in a room having sex and watching Netflix.
And it's like, that's not a relationship.
Which I completely agree with you.
And I kind of blame myself for that because I should have asked questions and kind of probed deeper into her viewpoints of marriage, of family, her role in a relationship.
And I didn't do that. Oh, you absolutely did probe deeply into her.
No, I'm just kidding. Obvious joke.
Now, she's not particularly Catholic if she's jumping to bed with you on the first date, right?
Well, I mean, I'm not sure about that.
You know, I'm sure I know quite a few religious girls who, you know...
No, it means she's not following the Catholic doctrine, right?
I suppose. I mean, I'm not that religious myself, so...
No, no, Catholic's very clear.
No sex before marriage, right?
Oh. Okay, yeah, we're quarter-dogs.
We have a different philosophy. Okay, so were you, like, when you were on the dating app, did you end up looking for a woman close by, or was it a long-distance relationship for a while?
I know the first month you were away, but were you fairly close together?
No, she lived in, I guess, out of town.
No, no, don't have to give me any geographical details, but, like, you were an hour away?
Yeah, about an hour away, yeah, about an hour away.
Okay. So, you talk on the phone for a month because you're away, not because you're, like, not having sex because of any reason, but you're away, you get together, you have sex, and what happens then?
Then we start having a relationship.
She calls me every morning.
We talk every day.
We laugh. We spend time together.
It was really intense.
That's her culture, I feel.
They're like that in South America.
It was just a great relationship.
It was really intense. It was really interesting.
It was really interesting. She peaked every level for me.
Okay. And what were the values that you shared?
I mean, fun is important.
I'm not going to disparage fun, but you've got to have more than fun to have a deeper relationship.
So what were the values that you shared?
I mean, we had a similar outlook in life in terms of where we want to live and how we want to live and things that we wanted.
So we had that similarity.
Can you give me some examples of what you mean?
Like, she loves to sail.
I sail also. She likes to do things I like to do as well.
And she's very, like, homely as I am.
Like, she likes to cook.
I love cooking also.
So, you know, these things were, you know, part of her, basically, which I like that about her.
You know, she liked doing simple things with me.
So you shared some hobbies.
Okay. What else? Yeah.
Yeah, some hobbies. But, you know, what else?
I mean, I'm trying to think of what else.
That was really it. You know, that's what we shared.
You know, maybe it was superficial, I suppose.
I don't know. Oh, yeah, no, that is superficial.
I'm not saying it's unimportant.
I mean, it's important to like doing the same things together, but you've got to share values, right?
Hobbies are like the icing on the cake.
You've got to have a cake first, right?
So as far as shared values go, I mean, do you want to have kids at some point in the future?
Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay, and did you talk with her about how you might raise them?
No, I did not. And it's, again, my fault for not even asking these questions.
No, I'm just curious. What was her relationship like with her family?
She's very close with her mom and sister.
Her dad... Left the U.S. because he couldn't stay here any longer, you know, for, I guess, document reasons as well.
And, you know, she saw her mom always, and her sister's married with a couple kids.
She's legal in the U.S. She got her papers.
Did her sister get her papers through marriage?
Yes. Yes, she did.
Yes, she did. And is her sister older?
Yes, by a few years.
Okay, so she's really trying to follow in the path of her sister, would you say?
Yes. Yes, totally.
Okay. Did you guys have any conflict over the first couple of months?
No. Never.
Not one. Not even one conflict.
Never an argument. Do you know why that is?
I mean, I feel that we were just connecting and we had a good relationship.
Oh dear. I'm sorry.
I don't mean to laugh. Do you have any other possible theories as to why she may not have had any conflicts with you?
Maybe she wants her papers.
It's quite possible. It's a possibility.
I'm not saying it's a certainty, but it's certainly a reasonable possibility.
Yes, sir. Yes.
I mean, my wife and I, we don't really have much conflict at all, but it's not like we never have any.
That would sort of be odd, right?
I mean, we have a sort of significant conflict maybe once a year or twice a year.
So she was very pleasant and positive and lots of sex and no conflict and so on, right?
And so then what started to go wrong?
Exactly. I guess after my injury, I began being critical of her a little bit.
I was being a little cruel to her with some words and things I was saying.
That kind of caused a little bit of rift for her.
Hang on, hang on.
I know it's not funny, but what would you say or what would happen after your injury?
I mean, I was just being mean.
I'm like, you know, I don't want to get married like that.
I was just being like...
Well, hang on, hang on, hang on. So, you know, we're jumping into the marriage conversations.
How long... Sorry, remind me, how long into the relationship did you get your injury?
I'll say probably in the fourth month, maybe.
Okay, so everything was fine until the fourth month, is that right?
Yes. Now...
Yes. When did you first start talking about marriage?
Towards the, I would say probably the fifth month, sixth month, we're talking about marriage.
Well, hang on, hang on. Sorry. No, no, no.
I'm sorry. I'm a little messed up on the timeline here.
Sorry to interrupt. Okay. So you had your accident, your injury in the fourth month, and then you said you didn't want to get married, but you said you hadn't started talking about marriage until the fifth month?
Oh yeah, but we weren't speaking about marriage until the fifth month.
I'm sorry. I was being spiteful later on when it was getting worse, the injury, and I couldn't move my arm at all.
So I felt just upset at the whole thing.
And I assume that you had met with a bunch of doctors or sports injury experts or whatever, and they were all just like, you're going to have to wait.
No, one even told me he did an MRI on my shoulder.
He's like, oh, by the way, you tore your labrum, which basically that's like the, you have a ball and socket on your shoulder.
The labrum is like the gasket holding the whole thing together, basically.
So if you tear that, that means you don't have a shoulder anymore.
That means your shoulder will forever be flaccid, weak.
It'll be disjointed.
It'll be disconnected. So that's what he told me.
So you were looking at a lifelong restriction on your shoulder, right?
Yeah. And someone like me, I'm very active.
I weight train. I have my own business.
I'm very hands-on with things.
And that type of injury is really catastrophic for someone like me in my lifestyle.
No, no. I get it. I mean, I don't have knee that bad.
I had a fall in St.
Louis a couple of years ago, and my knee was fairly messed up for me.
I don't know, close to a year, I think.
It took a while. It took a long while to get back to normal.
But the good news is that because I ended up working it so much more, my knee is now completely bulletproof because I've gone to the other extreme.
And how long ago was the injury?
I would say probably last August maybe.
Okay, so you mean a year and a bit ago?
Yeah, yeah. And is it back to normal?
Oh, yeah. I mean, I was in therapy for a year.
You know, I was very religious with doing things a certain way.
I began weight training ever so slightly, and then over time, it became stronger.
And lo and behold, I don't have a torn labrum.
It was a misdiagnosis, apparently.
Oh, so this guy kind of uncorked your anger towards your girlfriend, and he was wrong.
Yeah. Yes, exactly.
Exactly. Yeah, I always try and get a second opinion, but anyway.
Well, the first opinion I got was, yeah, but anyway.
So you end up being mean towards your girlfriend.
This was in the fourth month, though, and you weren't talking about marriage until the fifth month.
So what would you say to her in the fourth month?
Nothing. I was just saying, it's not your fault.
I understand it happens.
I was understanding it.
And then as it got worse and I couldn't move my shoulder, that's when I went to the doctor.
I'm like, hey, what's going on? I can't move my shoulder.
And that's when they told me that diagnosis.
And that's when I became just mean to her.
But not like a lot, but enough to kind of...
Okay, for heaven's sakes, you can answer me or not, but I've asked three or four times now.
What did you say to her that was mean?
How would you communicate that was mean?
And again, you don't have to answer, but at least tell me you're not going to rather than avoid it.
I apologize. I'm in my own thoughts.
I'm sorry about that. Yeah, I would say, like, you know, we're not going to get married or, like, you know, you're not pretty enough.
Like, just mean things that aren't necessary, you know.
Like, just mean things that no one deserves to be spoken to that way.
Right. Okay.
Okay. Yeah. And so what happened in the fifth and sixth month?
I guess she began resenting me a little more.
She wasn't showing it a little bit.
She'd say, hey Theo, I'm going out tonight.
You don't mind, right? Go ahead, go out.
I guess she was becoming more distant from me when I was being...
because of what I said to her.
I feel. Right.
And then? And then she...
Began speaking about marriage with me and say, hey, you know, I need to know what you want to do in life.
Do you want to get married or don't you want to get married?
And like, you know, then we began speaking about like what I think marriage should be.
And I'm like, hey, you know, like dating is one thing.
Marriage is a completely different thing.
So we have to kind of understand like what you think marriage should be.
I'm sorry. What's your age range?
You don't have to give me your exact age, but what's your age range?
Between me and her?
No, you and decades.
I'll say it. What was that?
Are you in your mid-twenties, late-twenties, early-thirties?
No, I'm in the early-forties.
Oh, you're in the early-forties? Yeah.
Okay. And how old was she?
She was in her late-twenties.
Sorry, I'm talking about her like she's buried in your backyard or something.
So, when she was alive, before you dormit her heart.
So, you said that dating is one thing, marriage is completely another thing?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
What does that mean?
I mean, you want to have kids.
You're in your 40s, so you've got to move quickly.
Yes, sir. Right? So you want to have kids.
How would marriage...
That's like saying, well, a job interview is one thing, but a job is completely another.
And it's like, I don't think that that's true.
Isn't dating particularly when you're aging out of being a dad, right?
So isn't dating at your age in particular more about leading to marriage?
Yeah, exactly. It's true.
So what were you trying to tell her then?
I was just trying to understand what type of marriage did she want?
What did she want from a man?
Because we never spoke about these things like we should have in the beginning of the relationship.
How long have you listened to this show?
I used to listen to you years ago, then I stopped for a while, and then I'm back.
Good plan! Less than two weeks.
I think two weeks.
You've probably heard me saying before that You should talk about values very early on.
Otherwise, you're probably going to get your heart broken.
Well, this is what happened, actually.
I mean, it's like investing in a job for six months before you even find out what the salary is.
It's a bit nutty, right?
Yeah, and it's my mistake.
I fully take blame for that.
I should have controlled that dynamic in the relationship in the beginning to see who she was about and kind of bet her, and I didn't do that.
Okay, so... That's the biggest lesson for me, at least.
So she's... Do you think that she was...
than when you sort of look back on things.
Do you think that she was going out without you in order to look for another man?
It's hard to say.
I mean, if a girl goes out, I think she is looking for a man in general.
Well, especially without you, right?
If you go to a club, a club is more of a meat market type of situation where men approach girls and girls do things like that.
She's in a ticking situation, right?
Because she's in her late 20s, right?
So she's hitting the wall. So if she's going to get a guy, she's got to do it quick.
Yes. So if it's not going to be you, she's got to have some other hooks in the water, so to speak.
Does that make sense? 100% makes sense.
And I understand her position. I'm not saying she's wrong for thinking that.
No, but that might be why she was out there putting some more hooks in the water.
So fifth month, sixth month, how did things end up busting up?
Well, in the eighth, ninth month, that's when we had a conversation about marriage.
Wait, eighth, ninth month?
I'm sorry, I thought you went out for six months.
I must have gotten that wrong. No, I think, I mean, we broke up in December of last year.
So let's say an eight-month relationship.
Okay, got it, got it. I met her in May.
In December, we ended it, basically.
And how long before it ended, was it bad or negative?
Maybe less than about a month, actually.
A month. A little over a month because in the last month I left the U.S. I went on a sailing adventure.
You know, we sailed the Caribbean Ocean, basically.
So I left for a good month.
But she liked to sail as well, right?
Yeah, yeah, she did.
And what was the...
I mean, did she have to work or what was the theory about not bringing her?
She had to work, basically.
So, you know, I was like a month long.
You know, not everyone could take a month long.
You know, vacay. And she could leave the country also.
You know, she's illegal, you know.
Oh, yes, of course, of course.
Yeah, like Elvis's manager or something.
Yeah, okay. Yeah, you know, I would love to have taken her, but, you know, in general, I was sad that she didn't have documents because I wanted to travel with her and see things with her, you know.
But, yeah, so I went for about a month.
And then when I came back, we had a conversation about marriage and I started that silly conversation of dating is one thing, marriage is one thing.
My mistake. And it spun out at that point.
Hang on.
So if you went sailing though, and again, I'm sorry to keep asking.
I'm just trying to keep the track.
So if you went sailing on the seventh or eighth month of your relationship, I assume that you knew your shoulder was going to improve or had improved by that point.
It didn't improve. I just wanted to go.
I needed to leave. I was just pissed off at everything.
I'm like, hey, you know, I'll just go and see what happens.
And you don't have to answer this, but it's kind of neat in a way that you could just go sailing for a month.
Are you independently wealthy?
I mean, I have my own business, and I make very good money.
So, I mean, wealthy is a relative term.
I'm not that wealthy, but I'm okay.
I don't know. A month of sailing is pretty wealthy, I think.
All right. That's fine. That's fine.
Yeah, but you don't have to be Jeff Bezos to be wealthy, right?
Okay. So, were you out of contact for the month?
I mean, I don't know what you do with satellite phones and all that on a...
On a yacht or a sailing ship, were you just out of contact for that month?
When we were underway, I was.
But when we landed to port, then I could call her.
And I did call her. We'd speak.
And we'd make plans for the New Year's.
We were making plans for that.
But I would call her. Not all the time, but sporadic when I could.
Now, what had changed from the sort of perfection of the early relationship to later on when you didn't want to marry her?
I've always had an issue with marriage, per se, just in terms of what I've read and what I've learned.
At that point in time, at least, I had a bigger issue than I do now.
So I was kind of reserved on the whole notion of marriage, and I did understand that she needed it to get her papers.
Well, it's more than just getting her papers.
Sorry to interrupt. It's more than just getting her papers.
And I've always found it kind of odd that you could just get married.
But anyway, it's more than that because if she wants to have a life that involves...
I mean, did she want kids as well?
Oh, yes, of course. Right.
So, well, I mean, I assume South American, right?
So it's more than just getting the papers.
It's that she needs to find someone to marry so that she can actually have children, right?
Yes. I assume it's pretty complicated to have kids without papers.
That's probably more complicated and she would much rather have the certainty, especially because politically, who knows what's going on with the DACA kids and all that, right?
So she really needs to settle down if she wants to have kids and she's aging out of the dating market and all of that.
So you were, I mean, if you're both attracted to each other and so on, you were kind of her last shot at getting this done in a relatively easier way.
Yes, I agree. And of course she didn't vet you either, right?
I mean, she's an adult, right?
She's not a victim in this, right?
So she didn't say to you early on, you know, like, I want to get married.
What are your thoughts on marriage?
Not that we have to get married right now, but I just want to make sure that it's something that at least could be on the table for you.
Yes, I agree. She didn't do that.
Right. Okay. So you get back and she says basically, we get married and you're like, well, you know, dating is one thing, marriage is totally another.
And again, I'm not sure exactly what that means, but did you basically say no to marriage?
Yeah, I did say no. I'm saying as it is right now, no.
And then that's when it went south.
Well, yeah, okay.
Now, did she say, okay, so as of right now in this circumstance, no, what would change or what could change that you would say yes?
Well, I was trying to get to that, but there was no...
I guess it's like the Latina rage happened at that point.
You could even talk to her at that point.
What does she say?
What does she do? What happened?
She just hung up the phone.
Wait, you talked on the phone about this?
Yeah. Why? It's a huge conversation.
Why would you do that on the phone?
Maybe I'm just old school, but isn't that a face-to-face thing?
I don't know. It should be, but sometimes it happens when it happens.
You're not going to say it.
I mean, you can say, hey, come here and talk about it, but it didn't happen that way.
I can't walk back, Stephan, and change things.
I know I made very big errors on this whole relationship.
Yeah. I acknowledge that.
And that's why it's tormenting me for that reason.
Right. Okay. And sorry, I didn't mean to say that it was just a terrible decision.
It's just, you know, there's things that are kind of incomprehensible to me, but it's just like a, you know, I probably got a good 15 years on you or whatever, right?
So it could just be a generational thing or half a generational thing or whatever.
So I'm really quite astounded at the number of people who have Very important and intense conversations either over the phone or, you know, that sort of meme joke about the guy who gets the wall of text from his girlfriend.
It's like texting is for arranging to meet so you can talk about important things.
It is not for important. I agree.
I completely agree with that, because you lose nuance when you text.
You don't get the details. You don't get the meaning of words.
Even the physical contact, eye contact, and so on.
A phone is a robot ear, right?
I mean, I have some experience, of course.
I have these call-in shows where I don't see people, so I have some experience trying to pull nuance out of audio, but for most people, it's not a particularly learned skill.
Okay, so she has the Latina rage, and so finally, after she has been the chameleon, right?
Yeah, I don't know if you know this term.
A chameleon, right? It's the woman who just agrees with everything, goes along with everything, lots of sex, and there are no problems, no conflicts.
And women can keep this up for about six months.
Is that right? I don't like the term chameleon in a way because it says, it has its implication that, you know, all women are crazy but they can pretend to be sane for six months.
And I don't believe that that's true. I mean, I live with two very sane females so I don't believe that to be true at all.
But if there is instability or there are emotional problems, a woman can play normal for four to six months.
And then, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you want to measure it, that mask comes off, right?
So she rages, she hangs up, and then what happens?
Well, we stop talking for a while, and then we're texting how...
And she says, I don't want to be a baby mama like you want me to be.
I want to have a family. I want to have structure.
I want to have a life that's normal.
What's the baby mama thing?
I haven't heard about that. Well, I mean, like I was saying, well, I want to have a family.
I want to have kids. I want to be connected and be committed.
But I had an issue with marriage at that point.
And that's what she said to me.
She's like, I will not be a baby mama to anyone.
She goes, I want to be a mother and a wife.
Oh, so you said you can have my baby, but I won't marry you?
Yeah, basically. To a Catholic woman.
Basically, yeah. Okay.
You're a very intelligent fellow, right?
Well, sometimes. Oh, you listen to this show.
Your verbal skills are very good.
You run your own business.
You can take a month off the sale.
So, yeah, you've got a good piece of meat brain between your ears.
Thank you, Stefan. How did you think it was going to go?
Like, when you say to a woman, you can have my children, but there's no way I'm going to marry you.
Well, I mean, like, normally go south, but, you know, I felt like, I guess a bit of arrogance on my side.
Well, also, you'd been lured in by the chameleon thing, right?
Oh, she's so agreeable. She never gets too mad, you know.
Yeah, that too, actually.
I didn't expect that kind of a reaction and it kind of completely threw me off.
I didn't expect her to be so ruthless.
No, listen, dude, this is for you and everyone out there in the world.
For a woman, anything less than marriage is an insult.
Just so everybody's aware of this.
And I don't care. She could be 90.
She could never want to have kids.
It doesn't matter. Anything less than marriage is an insult over time.
You know, I'm not talking first date or anything like that, but yeah.
Because it's basically saying, I won't give my heart to you.
I won't tie my life to you.
I won't make a vow in public to love you forever.
And so the woman immediately translates that to, and I'm not saying entirely wrongly, yeah, you're damaged goods and I'll have sex with you, but I'm not going to commit to you.
I'll use you for your body, but I don't want your personality.
Yeah, completely.
Okay, so things are kind of cool, and you are chatting back and forth a little bit, but it's not over yet, right?
Well, it's really over because every time I initially had to hang out, she was like, no, I don't want to see you anymore, you know, at all.
And like, you know, she ended it.
It was over at that point.
And I was shocked. I didn't expect it at that point.
And then I became angry a little bit afterwards, you know, for her to leave me.
But what do I expect of the whole thing?
I mean, I shot her and like, you know, and I get angry that she didn't like my answer, you know?
Well, hang on. So you insulted her after your injury.
Right? I mean, you said she's not pretty enough.
You said that she's not nice enough.
Which is not true. Well, no.
I mean, so you insulted her.
And then you said you were not going to marry her.
Yes. And she's on a ticking clock situation here that's like as loud as Big Ben.
Yes. And she desperately wants to get married.
You say you're not going to marry her.
And then you were surprised that it was over?
Again, help me understand.
Again, you're not 20, right?
You're not 18. You're in your 40s, so you're not new to the planet in that sense, the dating planet.
So under what circumstances would that not be the end?
I really, really want to get married.
I'm never going to marry you. I'm desperate to get married.
I'm never going to marry you. You're not pretty enough.
You're not nice enough. You're not good enough.
Okay. It's my fault entirely.
No, no, no. Forget the fault.
I don't care about the fault. I don't care about the fault because fault is just a way that we attack ourselves.
It's not a way that we learn from anything.
You blame yourself. My fault.
100% my fault. I take full responsibility.
But that doesn't help you avoid it.
The only way that you avoid it in the future is to truly understand what happened.
And blaming is like superstition.
It's like, well, if I blame myself enough, it won't happen again.
But blaming yourself for things that you did is like saying something exists because a ghost created it.
It's a pseudo answer that prevents further questions.
So I know you've said a lot of times the blame thing and I don't care about the blame thing.
It stands in the way of us figuring out what's really going on because I don't want this to happen to you again.
You don't want this to happen to you again.
And blame is a way of just cutting short the knowledge.
So tell me a little bit about your parents' relationship.
Well, my father passed away.
I was a year old when he passed away.
So my mom raised us on her own.
So, yeah.
She got remarried later on in life.
It didn't work out too well.
It was kind of a nasty relationship.
And she got married when I was 15 again.
How did your father die?
He died of asbestos.
He used to work in construction back then.
And my mom didn't understand what the word meant.
And, you know, she never filed lawsuits.
I mean, it was, you know, back then, you can, you know, say, hey, my husband died of asbestos, we'd get money from the courts at that point.
Well, I think there were also class actions, but, okay, all right, so...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your father died young, your mother was single for a decade and a half.
Did she remarried when you were 15?
Yeah, she remarried when I was 15.
She did. And how is your relationship with your mom?
Right now? I mean, like, you know, like...
Definitely straight because I had a hard relationship with her.
She was very neglectful.
She was very into her own world.
She never spoke at all.
She was always angry at life.
It was a lot of that.
She would take it out on us. She was violent in her own way.
I'm sorry about all of this, but what does that mean, violent in her own way?
She was aggressive, verbally abusive, physically abusive.
Oh, so some of your acid tongue you get a little bit from your mom, right?
100%. 100%.
Well, no. I mean, some of it's you and your choice.
I'm responsible for it, but I'm saying the cause of it, the genesis of it.
Now, over the course of this relationship, did you talk about things with your mom?
In terms of what?
How things were going, what you wanted, how you were behaving, the issues you had with your shoulder, the meanness you felt towards your girlfriend.
Did you talk to your mom about the arc of this relationship at all?
No. And why not?
No. Because I don't talk to her like that.
She's not involved in my life like that.
I don't say the innards of what I'm thinking.
Did she know you were dating at all?
I think so. I mean, I might have told her just out of like, you know, casualness.
I didn't say anything like that.
I mean, I might have told her, you know, I forget though.
I wasn't really a topic I would bring up with her.
Like you might have mentioned I'm dating someone, but that was about it?
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Over the course of your 20s and 30s and now into your 40s, has your mother expressed any concern or desire for, concern about you not settling down or desire for you to do so?
I mean, she wanted me to get married and have a family.
She's like, I think you'd be an amazing father and husband and, you know, you should do that.
I'm sorry, she wanted you to get married and then what?
She said that I would be an amazing father and a husband.
She said, you know, I think that you have good qualities that really, you know, would make a woman happy.
And how many relationships have you had as an adult?
I mean, like, long term, I would say probably four or five.
Short term, I don't know, a lot.
Like dozens, hundreds, what are we talking?
Maybe in the hundreds. Okay, so you've slept with a lot of women.
Yes, I have.
And did your mother sit you down at any point and say, why do you think it's so hard for you to settle down?
No. No, she never went that deep.
Well, that's not hugely deep.
Well, I mean, that's the relationship of me and my mother.
She never asked me about my life.
We never had these deep conversations where, you know, my son, what do you think?
Was never asked in her whole entire life.
Now, I'm going to ask you a tough question.
I mean, they're all tough, but again, you don't have to answer anything you don't want to.
But in the hundreds of women that you've slept with, how many of them do you think thought that there might be something more long-term in the relationship?
Yeah. A number of them, actually.
Quite a few. I'd say maybe five, five, six, maybe more.
Well, that's not quite a few out of hundreds.
Well, I mean, a lot of them wanted more from me.
I just rejected all of them.
Now, did they sleep with you knowing that you didn't want any kind of relationship with them?
No, never. Okay, so you gave them the impression, or they had the impression, that you were available for dating and or marriage when you weren't.
Well, dating, yes.
Marriage, no. Well, but again, deep down, anything that's not marriage is an insult.
Yes, deep down. Yes, yes.
Okay, so... I know that now, but back then I didn't know that.
In my 20s, I could care less in my 20s.
Well, and so I'm sort of trying to figure out what kind of load you're carrying.
I mean, obviously, it's not a load of semen based upon your history, but there's some kind of load that you're carrying, I think, right?
Which is why it's tough for you to settle down.
Yeah, I think so.
But how many of these hundreds of women do you think have been in your situation, and I'm not talking about like an eight-month relationship, but where they wanted something more and just couldn't get it from you?
How many? Most.
Most of the women. Okay, so you've put hundreds of women in the situation that you're currently in.
Oh, yes. And how do you feel about that?
I feel horrible. I mean, I feel bad for myself.
You feel bad for yourself?
No, I'm trying to ask you a slightly different question.
I empathize with these women.
Yeah, I mean, it was not nice.
It was mean, but I felt at that age, I wasn't really mentally ready for that type of relationship.
I just like to go out.
I like to have fun. No, no, but you've been a quarter century doing this, so don't talk to me about at that age, right?
I mean, okay, so you're 18.
That's a different matter, right?
But there's decades since, right?
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.
What was your question again? Okay, so with regards to these women, if there had been no possibility of sexual access...
How many of them would you have enjoyed having in your life?
No sex, no dating, no whatever, right?
Of these hundreds of women, how many of them would you have been happy to have in your life?
If they'd been, I don't know, somebody else's girlfriend or somebody else's wife or the sister of a friend or who was not, like, no sexual access possibility, how many of them would you have liked to spend time with?
For one. Just one?
One. Okay. So you used hundreds of women for sex?
Okay. No, if I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong.
I'm happy to hear how this is not the case, but if you didn't like them for who they were, and the only value that they really brought to the table was their vagina, then you kind of used them for sex, right?
Right. Well, I mean, it's more than that.
It's like, you know, we had fun. Like, we enjoyed each other's company.
It was an emotional connection. It's not just a slab of meat, you know.
No, hang on, hang on. So let's rewind, right?
Do you remember me asking you, like, 90 seconds ago, right?
I asked you how many of them you would have enjoyed having in your life if there was no sexual access, and you said one out of the hundreds.
Yeah, yes. Okay, so I'm not saying you never had fun.
But I'm saying that if you were really only with these women because of sexual access, then you were using them for sex.
Now, the reason I say that you were using them for sex, because a feminist would say, well, they were using him for sex, and it's like, well, no, not if they wanted more.
That's why I asked that question.
Did they want more from you than just a sexual relationship, right?
Many did. In a sense, I don't want to say lying exactly, but there's kind of a falsification here, which is that you're holding out a possibility of dating, of a romantic relationship that could possibly lead to marriage.
But not a fling, not a one-night stand, not just using each other for sex.
So you're kind of holding out the possibility of a longer relationship.
They sleep with you, and you're withholding from them the information that they need to have, which is, I'm never going to date you.
I'm only physically attracted to you.
We can have fun, but I'm never going to commit to you.
I'm never going to be your boyfriend.
It's just about sex, really.
And if they'd have known that ahead of time, how many do you think if these hundreds of women would not have slept with you?
I mean, a few. Not all.
They kind of came to me.
I lied to them or I manipulated them.
It's not true. It's just a genuine attraction.
No, no, no. Hang on. Hang on.
Again, we can rewind and I'm not trying to catch you out on anything.
I'm just trying to sort of follow the logic here.
I'm trying to be honest about it.
If they didn't know...
It wasn't a use. Well, hang on.
If they didn't know you wouldn't date them and they thought you would, then you were withholding some pretty...
Hang on. You were withholding some pretty essential information from them, right?
Well, when a girl wants to have sex with you and you have sex with her, then am I lying to her?
No. Especially when you're younger.
If she has the impression that she could be your girlfriend when she can't be your girlfriend, in other words, if she has the impression that That you like her a lot more than you actually do, and not just for the sex, which is not liking a person, but liking your own orgasm, right?
So if she has the impression that you like her a lot more than you do, then there is a certain deception involved in that, I think.
Okay. Let me sort of give you an example from the business world.
So let's say that you're young and you want to work at a magazine or something, right?
And the magazine says, well, the way that you get a full-time position is you start out as an unpaid intern, right?
And so you work there for a couple of months and you don't get any pay.
And then you find out that there is no such thing as...
A paid position that comes out of being an intern.
That all the interns get let go after a couple of months.
And they say, well, you know, we never promised you that we were going to make you a full-time position.
You're like, well, you just kind of got some free labor because I thought there was a future in this.
And turns out there really wasn't any kind of future.
Now, if you told me at the beginning, yeah, we want to use you for a couple of months as unpaid labor, and then we're going to let you go, you wouldn't have gone there, right?
You went there with the expectation that it would grow into something better.
Yeah, I see your point.
I went into things more of a casual way than an actual serious way.
And I think I'm paying the price not for that.
Well, I mean, I'm here to try and help you as much as I possibly can.
Right now, I think...
I appreciate that. Yeah, listen, I mean, I think that as men, we tend to judge women as if there are us.
Now... If we're heterosexual, of course, we want women in particular because they're not us, right?
They have an innie where we have an outie, so to speak, right?
So it's about the vagina again, isn't it?
Yeah, we want women to be like us, but also the opposite of us.
Now, women have this terrible situation in that sex is handed out like candy.
And so any woman that won't hand out sex is in competition with other women who will hand out sex.
Now it's my particular belief that men can survive promiscuity a lot better than women can.
I agree. And so if you are sitting there thinking, well, you know, I didn't get much damaged by my promiscuity.
I mean, I think maybe you did, but it's not as bad.
So you say, well, so the women weren't really harmed by my promiscuity.
But I think that that's not the case.
I think that because I want you to recognize that women are different from you.
Because for you, it's like, well, I don't really want to get married.
Right? And... Well, now I do, actually.
It's not a matter of... No, but when you said to the Brazilian woman, I don't really want to get married to you, and then you were, like, really surprised when she got so upset, right?
Completely surprised. Right.
When she was super agreeable for the first couple of months, right?
And didn't even break up with you when you were...
Calling her ugly or not pretty enough or whatever it was, like not good enough for you, right?
She's still hanging in there, right?
And she's telling herself, well, it's just, you know, he's in pain, he's frightened for his shoulder, he's, you know, he's just going, it'll pass, right?
So I think it's really important that you stop being surprised, especially in your 40s, right?
I could give you more of a pass in a sense if you were still in your early 20s.
But you've now dated hundreds of women You've been an adult for a quarter century.
You should no longer be surprised by women.
Yes, I agree.
Sorry, just wait for that background noise to sort itself out.
Yeah, I'm so sorry. That's fine.
So, the question is, what is your view of women?
Are they like you with a vagina?
Or are they significantly different?
They're very different than us and completely different.
They come from a different point of reference, a different life cycle than we have.
We're not the same. A woman will hit a wall at 30 and she has to make decisions by then.
They're very tough, I think, because they're being pulled by feminists to be a certain way and they're being pulled by religion and tradition to be a certain way.
They don't have a clear answer in terms of Of how to find happiness, I think.
And I feel that as men, we should set the table in a way to give them that security.
You have to vet them, of course.
I do that now.
You have to vet them and see if they fit what you're looking for in a woman.
And if they do, I feel that you should go full force and see what happens.
And give them what they need to be happy.
So the more... We're very different.
Yeah, but the more different women are, the more you've harmed them with promiscuity.
So then my question...
You haven't lost any hair, have you?
Or your hair's still fairly thick, is that right?
I have a full head of hair.
Now, how did I know that? How'd you know that?
I don't know. Can I tell you how I absolutely knew you had a full head of hair?
How? Because the reason why men go bald is that's our hitting the wall.
Right, so a man going bald means, oh, I've got to settle down.
Because I'm becoming less attractive through going bald.
It's kind of like the woman aging out.
It's like the man going bald.
And, you know, some men can look good bald, and I'm not saying it's this big whole negative thing.
But I think that one of the reasons why...
The baldness happens.
Because women have the egg thing and they have the clock.
But for a man, if he starts to lose his hair in his late 20s or early 30s, that's nature's sign for you better settle down relatively quickly.
You're in the timeless phase of manhood, right?
Other than your shoulder, which was an accident, things are pretty much the way they were in their 20s and you could probably get another 10 years out of this.
And younger women… No, I don't mean in terms of physicality, right?
Like, you're not going to age out of your physicality, particularly if you're staying active for a while.
And younger women will date an older man if he has hair.
Unless he has a huge amount of money or something like that.
So if you're an older man and you stay relative, I agree.
Yes. It's unfortunate that you have a full head of hair, right?
Because it means that you feel like you're kind of ageless, right?
And again, you're not going through perimenopause.
You're not sagging in the same way that women do.
Your boobs aren't hanging, right?
The pencil test, right? Can you tuck a pencil under your boobs and have it stay there?
That's not the case usually for women in their 20s, but it is the case for women in their 30s.
So you're not getting the aging out stuff and you're not getting the baby rabies that women get in their 30s.
And so on, right? So you're kind of in this state of timelessness for men, which is men who don't go bald.
You're kind of in the state of timelessness, and that's unfortunate because time is moving on.
Time's ticking. Yeah, time's ticking.
Okay, so let's go back to your mom.
What is the value that you saw, if any, of your mother bringing to the life of you or men as a whole?
Can you rephrase that? I'm not sure if I understand what you mean.
Sure. Okay. So, let me put it in a way that's personal to me.
I don't want to make this about me, but maybe this will help.
So, when my mother was younger, she was very attractive, very slender, really nice features, and, I mean, a solid nine.
Now... The question is, I like that, wow, like, what happened?
Next generation, just kidding. So the question for me always was, and yet she would have a lot of boyfriends.
I knew she was, you know, crazy and immoral and violent and so on, right?
But she would have a lot of boyfriends.
And sometimes those boyfriends would move in and it was, you know, all kinds of awkward and uncomfortable as you could imagine, right?
And my question, of course, always was, why are these men dating my mom?
Why are these men dating my mom?
I mean, she'd put ads in the newspaper.
They'd fly her to various cities.
And again, so she was, I guess, at this point, she'd be in her 40s.
And they were often older men, often with full heads of hair.
I kind of noticed that as well.
This is the kind of thing that happens, right?
And so why would they...
Be dating my mom.
Now, my mom would share me things that I will not share with you, just about how aggressive some of these men could be when they finally got her alone.
But the question is, why were they dating my mom?
It wasn't for her quality of personality.
It wasn't for her virtues.
It wasn't for her kindness. It wasn't for her sensitivity.
It wasn't for her goodness, so to speak.
It was because she was pretty and slender.
So, for me, one of the problems I had when I was younger was...
I saw a lot of men choose my mom because she was pretty.
And so I didn't see that my mom brought a lot of value to these men other than being pretty, if that makes any sense.
Yes. So with regards to your own mother, what value did she bring to the masculine world other than being pretty or...
Well, she's very pretty, my mother.
Oh, I have no doubt.
I have no doubt she's very pretty, and that probably is not also very good for you, as it wasn't for me when I was younger.
So what value does your mom bring to the table other than being pretty?
I mean, to the masculine world.
My mom was a man in a way, because she took care of the house, so she gave that kind of energy her whole life.
So I mean... She was just a very decisive woman.
My way or no way is how she was.
So what value? I mean, she was witty, smart, charming in her way, but very attractive.
But that's really, I guess, loyal.
My mom's very loyal. She never went out when she was young and pretty.
She never brought a man home to the house at all.
And what do you mean by loyal?
I mean, she's a loyal person.
Repeating the word loyal does not exactly illuminate what you mean by loyal.
Well, she's loyal. Okay, well, I got it there.
Second time around, I got it. Yeah, so she's a woman of her word.
If she says something, she does it.
If she's honest and she's always bent over backwards for people.
Okay, so help me square these virtues of loyalty and caring and concern or whatever with the fact that she's kind of let you use a lot of women and hasn't ever tried to figure out why you're not settling down.
I mean, I assume she loves you or she claims that she does and you want to get married and she raised you in such a way that you're not yet settled down.
So, how is she expressing her love if you're still drifting around getting your heart broken by women into your 40s and she hasn't sat you down and tried to sort this out with you?
Well, because we don't have that deep relationship where she could do that.
In a way, I kind of raised myself in a way.
She was working all the time and she never had that connection with me.
She did raise me, but not like I would if I had a child.
I was kind of more on my own, literally.
Yeah, I mean, there's a certain amount of necessary neglect.
Like, yeah, single mothers, particularly if they're working single motherhood, just means neglect.
Complete neglect, and I think it's the worst thing in the world to even promote that in society, I think.
But I mean, she worked, she was tired, and that was my relationship with my mom.
Well, she was a widow, though, not quite a single mom, right?
Freak. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, my father passed away.
It's different than your father leaving you.
Yeah, or you leaving the dad. So technically, she'd be a widow, not a single mom.
But did she bring other masculine elements into your life?
Did she make sure you had, I don't know, uncles or...
No. I had no masculine energy in my life.
Zero masculine. Even in school, they were all women.
TV was mainly...
I mean, I still watch Little House on the Prairie, so I got some out of that.
But that's about it.
There were no men in my family, in my life at all.
Has she at all acknowledged that she was a very neglectful and or absent parent?
I brought it up with her.
We had arguments about it, and she never acknowledged it.
It's like the long, you know... She's like, I did the best with what I could do.
I'm the best mother in the world, she would say.
I'm the best mother in the world, she would say?
No, really? I swear to God.
And she would say that. And I'm like, well, Mom, you were never around.
You never even gave me advice.
I could have been a big drug addict when I was a young kid.
You wouldn't even know. And by luck and chance, I think I did quite well, all things considered.
Well, and like a lot of A lot of boys who are raised without fathers, you define masculinity as promiscuity.
Is that right? Oh yeah, no, promiscuity and being raised without a father are hand in hand.
Okay, I have no idea about that.
Well, because you don't see a married man, you don't see a married husband, you don't see a guy who protects and provides for his family, and so you see a lot of hypersexualized activity on the screen, on the internet, and so on.
And yeah, so I've got this, it's the whole R versus K thing.
So you can look at Gene Wars, G-E-N-E Wars.
You can go to freedomain.com.
Sorry, you can go to fdrpodcast.com and just do a search for Gene Wars.
It says R versus K, right?
There's two ways that human beings reproduce.
They either have a lot of kids and cross their fingers or they have few kids and invest in them.
And because you were not invested in, your body generally responded with higher levels of lust, higher levels of testosterone, and your pair bonding is diminished.
Because your reproductive strategy in a situation with an absent father, your reproductive strategy is to have a lot of sex and move on.
Yeah. Right? So R is like a rabbit, and K is like a wolf.
So a rabbit's just...
The dads don't stay around, they just have sex every six weeks or, you know, they just have a lot of ducks do the same thing, right?
So the R species just have sex all the time and they have a whole bunch of kids and not many of those kids make it but enough.
Whereas the K predators, like the wolves, they have fewer kids but they invest a lot into their offspring, if that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, totally. So, where you are as a dating guy is probably because, again, because you grew up without a father, you would be more prone to have a reproductive strategy of promiscuity.
And this has been noticed even among primates, that if you remove the father from the equation, promiscuity is much higher.
And you can see this in various communities and races and so on.
You can see it right across the world that Fatherlessness and promiscuity.
And we know this for women as a whole, but in particular, we don't talk about it as much for men, but I think we should, because that's something else that's pretty important.
So tell me this, if you don't mind.
What value can you conceive of a woman bringing to your life outside of sex?
Peace, tranquility, joy, happiness, you know, life.
I'm sorry, those are all just adjectives, like you're just giving me positive adjectives.
Can you tell me sort of in practical terms, in a day-to-day way, what value will a woman bring to your life?
I mean, they bring meaning.
They bring purpose, right? So, I mean, like, why am I working?
Why am I doing things? Why am I making money for what?
I mean, at some point for me, it's great, but, you know, it becomes meaningless at some point, right?
Okay, but that's not specific to any woman, right?
You could give your money to any woman and fulfill that standard, right?
So, I'm trying to figure out what practical benefits...
What is being married to a woman in your life?
Practical. Again, forget the sex or that you have someone to spend your money on or someone to raise your kids because it's all very abstract.
What tangible practical benefits will a woman bring to your life if you marry her?
Someone to talk to every day.
Someone to share your opinions every day and someone to share things with every day.
That's pretty practical. I think that's necessary and it's very meaningful also.
You buy her gifts.
You do things for her because it makes you happy.
Sorry, I knew this was going to be a bit awkward, but someone to talk to again is very generic.
Let me ask you this. If you marry a woman or if you have a woman in your life, could she run the accounting side of your business?
Oh, I see your point.
I'm talking about practical, valuable things outside of sex that a woman can bring to your life.
Oh yeah, 100%.
She can do the accounting. She can do advertising if she wants.
She can be a part of things.
She can do anything like that.
Never mind. She could lift your paperwork burden, your regulatory burden.
She might run your household very efficiently.
She would do research on things you need to buy.
She could plan vacations or plan your business travel so that you could really focus on your business.
I mean, these are all things that are sort of very practical and solid and sensible that she could do that would be a significant benefit to your life, right?
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I want that.
And even with the Brazilian girl, she was in marketing, but she never once even offered to give me an opinion on my business.
Isn't that interesting? I should have asked her.
No, no, she should have offered.
No, no, no, she should have offered.
Right? Because if she wants to get married to you, first of all, she should find out whether you're the marrying kind.
And secondly, if a woman, this is, again, advice to the women out there, if you want to get married to a man, just be useful.
Yeah. I mean, a man should be useful to his wife, and a wife should be useful in a very sort of practical sense to her man.
Yeah. She should lift his burden.
She should do things for him.
And he should lift her burden and do things for her, right?
Because in particular, if the woman's going to raise your kids, then you have to pay the bills, right?
You have to work hard and pay the bills.
So you're providing a very practical benefit to her, which is $100,000 a year or whatever it is that you're bringing home.
It's a very practical benefit.
So then the question is, what practical benefit does the woman bring in return?
Now, if this woman had really wanted to marry you and was smart, she would have...
Helped you with your business, free of charge, to the point where you say, wow, my income has doubled since I knew this woman.
Oh yeah, I would have bought her a ring immediately.
See, then you're the marrying kind, right?
But the problem is that you focus so much on sex, which again, I understand, and I'm not anti-sex, it's a wonderful part of life, but you focus so much on sex that you gain the benefit of sex and you stop looking for other benefits.
Yeah, I agree. Well yeah, in a way I was disappointed that she didn't do that.
I never brought it up to her.
I should have brought up a lot of things with this relationship because I did love her a lot and I knew more about how I felt after we broke up.
It's interesting on that.
But yeah, it would have been amazing if she offered to help me in some way.
It would have been amazing if she acted like the wife, I would have married her.
But she wasn't acting like the wife.
No, she was acting like a mistress.
Yeah, and I'm like, well, you want to be a wife?
You know, it's more than sex.
It's more than this. Let's talk about it.
And that's what I meant when I said dating is one thing, because my reference is sex and dating, and marriage is an entirely different thing, which is not correct also, but that's where it was coming from.
It was all sex and pleasure.
Yeah, here's the awful fact about male-female dating, right?
If what she's bringing to the table is sex, and you're supposed to provide for the family...
You're paying for sex.
Well, that's what I felt like with all my relationships, actually, and that's why I never got married.
I'm like, where's my benefit?
Okay, sex, your body, I have that, but what else do you do?
What else do I get if I sacrifice my whole entire life working for family, for house, for kids, problems?
What do I get out of this?
Well, you know this old saying that you can't turn a whore into a housewife?
I learned that late in life.
Well, and I think people kind of misunderstand that, and I'm not referring to your ex-girlfriend here or anything like that, but what I'm saying is that if the fundamental transaction is you're going to pay money and she's going to have sex with you, that's prostitution.
And marriage can never coexist with prostitution.
I mean, obviously, legally, I guess it could, but marriage and prostitution are opposites.
And prostitution is when a woman feels that all she has to offer or she's willing to offer is her body, but the man has to offer both his body and money.
Yeah. Right?
Like, if you had sex with her and you said, okay, well, now that we're having sex together, you owe me $50,000 a year.
You'd be a gigolo, right?
And if you said to her, hey, I'll keep having sex with you, but you've got to pay me $4,000 a month, what would she say?
She would laugh.
I mean, a woman wouldn't even acknowledge that.
Well, she would think you were insane.
And she would also feel...
That you didn't want to have sex with her to the tune of minus $4,000 a month.
If she has to pay you $4,000 a month to have sex with her, you clearly don't want to have sex with her.
Yeah, exactly. Because if it's desire, you don't want money.
You want to do it. And so if you're supposed to provide money and she's supposed to provide sex...
This is why sex tends to die off in relationships.
If the relationships start with sex, it dies off because if you have to pay a woman to have sex with you, you feel humiliated and she feels rejected.
Because if you have to pay $4,000 a month in order to have sex with her, in other words, you pay the bills and all she does is have sex with you, then she feels that you kind of don't want to have sex with her because you have to pay her to do it.
I mean, generally we pay for what people don't want to do.
So I think this is probably the mechanic that has been undermining this.
Okay, so let's close off.
And I know we haven't quite got to the end or prevention, so I think we can do that relatively quickly.
So how did it play out with regards to, she says it's over and you keep texting after the eighth month, right?
Yeah, then at some point we stopped talking and then I'd say three months after our breakup, four months, she contacts me and we start talking again.
I miss you, this and that.
And then she's like, do you want to get married?
I'm like, no.
Wait, what? Yeah, it's what she asked me.
Did she turn 30? What happened?
No, no. It was just a few months after.
She's like, would you still consider marriage?
And I said no. And I kind of called her out.
I'm like, hey, I think you're doing it as a business.
I don't think you care about love.
And I said that to her.
I'm like, I think that it's more of a business than an actual thing.
Now, by business, did you mean the papers or money or both or what?
Yeah, because I'm like, if you...
If you cared about me, you wouldn't be talking about this.
You would talk about something else. If I was important in her life, that's the thinking anyway.
If I wasn't important in her life, she would have said, I love you, I miss you.
Well, and also as a man, you're concerned about the sloppy seconds boomerang that she was out there for a couple of months, couldn't find anyone wealthier or more attractive, and therefore she's coming back to you, right?
Exactly. She told me how her dating life was so horrible.
I'm like, why are you telling me this? I don't need to know about your dating life.
I felt like telling her, well, mine's amazing.
I didn't say that.
Are you still out there sleeping with women?
Yeah, actually, I was more so after I broke up with her.
Okay, well, you know, please, just fucking stop doing that, okay?
Please, for the love of all that's holy, stop making feminists.
Stop breaking women and turning them into damaged goods for society to pick up in the welfare state.
Please stop doing that. So you're saying it's my fault I started this whole thing?
No, just, you know, imagine you have a daughter.
Do you want her to meet someone like you?
You know what? It depends on which...
Me now, yes.
Someone who's going to use her for sex while dangling commitment?
Yeah. No.
Okay, you got... Sorry, like this...
This is terrible.
It's a terrible idea. I'm sorry.
You're not 18 anymore.
You know, grow the fuck up.
Okay. And put it back in your pants and start looking for somebody who's got quality, okay?
This is like an addiction at this point, right?
Yeah, okay. Okay, it's easy to say, but that's just my sort of fairly stern advice, if that makes sense.
Because you keep chasing these women and you keep destroying your capacity to pair bond and you keep falsifying what they might get from you.
That the price is you won't be able to pair bond.
You won't be able to fall in love. You won't be able to commit.
Well, the irony with getting back to this girl, then after that conversation, I'm like, hey, you know what?
Let's get married. I told her, let's do it.
I missed her so much at that point.
Wait, you said, I'm not going to marry you.
You're sloppy seconds. You're damaged goods.
It's just a business transaction, but let's get married.
Exactly, yeah. Well, the day after, I'm like, hey, you know, I thought about it.
I'm like, you know what, let's do it.
I love you so much, and I think you mean the world to me.
She broke me at that point.
I did love the girls, and I didn't love her.
Well, I don't know what you mean by the word love, because for me, love is our involuntary response to virtue if we're virtuous, and I don't see a whole lot of virtue flying around here, but you can read my book, Real-Time Relationships, for free if you want for that.
Okay, so what happens after you decide to get married?
Well, she goes to me, I don't want to marry anymore.
I'm like, wait a second. After this whole thing, now you don't want to do it.
Well, hang on. So this had to be a couple of conversations or a week or two between these things?
It wasn't all the same call. Marry me.
Yes. No, I don't want to get married.
No, no. No, it was different calls.
At some point, I tried calling her after.
I mean, I think I pissed her off by saying that it's a job for you.
Again, it's being mean to the girl.
I think that turned her off a little bit.
You think? Well, yeah.
All right. So then she said, I've changed my mind.
I don't want to marry you. And then what happened?
Yeah. Well, then I just went south.
I was very upset and sad.
I was a mess. I was a mess after that.
Well, hang on. So this is very interesting.
I mean, it's all been interesting. So did you guys sleep together?
Did you get back together physically in this time period?
No, not at all. We haven't spoken at all.
Actually, she moved. I didn't tell you this, but she moved to Florida to a different state entirely.
Were you guys living together at all?
No, we were not. Okay, so she moved.
And so then what happened was...
Okay, so I know what happened.
So she dangled commitment in front of you, right?
Yeah. You wanted the commitment, and then she dumped you.
Yeah. Right. This is what you have done to hundreds of women.
Yes. So you're saying it's payback, Stefan?
No, I'm not saying it's payback.
I'm saying that it's your...
So what we call karma is usually our thirst for empathy trying to break through our cynicism or our indifference or our coldness.
I think if you understand that you are now in the position that you've put lots of other women in, Then you can mourn the harm that to some degree you've done.
And I don't mean this in any sort of horrible, you're a bad guy, terrible guy kind of way, but you know...
Even if you shoot an arrow over the house and accidentally hit someone else, you've still done harm.
Even if your ex-girlfriend accidentally does something when you're windsurfing and you hurt your shoulder, it's still a real hurt.
So we can say, with a lack of knowledge and a lot of programming and propaganda from mainstream media, you did some significant harm to women.
I think if you can process that harm Then you can pair bond.
Because she dangled commitment in front of you, you wanted the commitment, and then she dumped you.
And this is, I think, mirroring the way that you've treated women.
Not as extremely, not, I'm going to marry you.
No, I'm not. I mean, I understand that it's not the same.
But that's why I was asking you earlier about, did the women think that you would commit to them more than just a one-night stand?
And you said most of them did. Most of them wanted that extra commitment.
So, you have...
I think your empathy for the women that you've done some harm to is trying to borrow up so that you can deal with that so that you can pair bond in the future.
Okay. That women are delicate and women are sensitive and women do pair bond.
And here's the thing too, like...
You were born good-looking, right?
You were born with nice features.
You were born with a full head of hair that was going to last your life.
You were born with a nice physique.
And listen, you've earned it, right?
I mean, you exercise in this and that and the other, but I assume you take pleasure in that as well.
So you have value to women because of your looks and your intelligence and your charisma, but you didn't earn your looks.
You didn't earn your intelligence any more than I did.
And your charisma is largely a result of your looks being the icebreaker or paving the way, right?
I agree. So you have strip-mined a lot of, quote, value in yourself for things that you didn't earn.
It's like thinking that you're a super great businessman because you inherited $10 million.
Now, if you earn $10 million out of nothing, that's amazing, right?
But if you just inherit $10 million, that's not a terrible thing or whatever, but it doesn't mean that you have value.
It just means that your parents gave you money.
Does that make sense? Yes, of course.
And so if you have exploited the accidental for the sake of vanity, for the sake of feeling like you have value, I'm such a player, I've slept with all these women, I'm so cool, well, you just...
It's like this poor woman, Amaranth, I was talking about before.
I mean, she's got these colossal boobs and literally some woman said shaking her $10 million breasts at the camera or something like that.
People are kind of mixed and responsible to this, but let's assume that they're natural.
I don't know if they are or not. Let's assume that the boobs are natural.
Okay, so she's made a lot of money, millions and millions of dollars, in part because of her cleavage.
Now, she didn't earn her cleavage.
She just happened to be born with these gigantic boobs, right?
Boobs for days, as a friend of mine used to say when we were younger.
And she happens to have a very pleasing face and nice hair, but she didn't earn those.
You say, ah, yes, well, I'm sure she exercises.
Like, yes, she does. And part of the reason why she exercises is she gets paid millions of dollars to have a nice figure.
And she also has a fairly nice voice and so on and so on.
So she didn't earn these things, but she's getting a lot of positive feedback from the accidental, and that messes us up.
To be praised for things we did not earn is not healthy.
I mean, it's kind of inevitable in a way.
But my intelligence is raw.
My virtue is not being smart or having good verbal skills or anything like that.
That's not my virtue. I didn't earn that.
We know that intelligence is likely genetic.
What I can take some pride in and do is the fact that I have used my intelligence to try and spread virtue and goodness and love and honesty and courage and all that throughout the world.
I think that was a choice.
How I apply my intelligence is a choice.
The fact that I have intelligence is not a virtue at all.
And again, there's lots of smart people who are just horrible and immoral.
I'm not putting you in this category at all.
You're smart for sure, but not horrible at all.
Sorry, I recognize that I want to make sure that lands in the right way.
Yeah, I should just not have sex anymore.
That's your recommendation. No more sex for me.
Well, here's the thing. No, no.
I mean, do what you want, but my suggestion is be really honest.
So, when you met with this woman, the Brazilian woman, when you met her after you were a month away, after you had been talking for a month, What's the most honest thing you could have said to her when you met her?
Because you already told me the most honest thing, and I'm not sure if you remember it.
I would say probably caveat emptor, buyer beware.
No, the most honest thing would be, I really, really want to have sex with you, but I won't respect you if you say yes.
Yeah.
And I will only consider marrying you if you provide real value to me outside of sex.
And because I have to provide value to you, to the woman, say, look, I'm going to have to, if you get married to me, we get married and you have kids, you're going to stay home with the kids because that's what we want.
So you stay home with the kids, I'm going to have to provide $50,000 Of extra value for you and the kids, right?
So we know the value that I'm going to provide, which is roof over the head, clothes for you and the kids, groceries, and all of that.
So you providing sex and me providing sex cancels out.
So I know what I'm going to have to provide, which is 10 times the money I would need to live on my own.
So I know what I'm providing that has value.
So I need to know what you're providing that has value.
And it can't just be sexual access because that cancels out, right?
And I don't pay for sex. I don't pay for sex.
So... I mean, I remember being...
That's great. I remember going out with a woman.
I thought it was a date. And so halfway through dinner...
I said, I'm enjoying this date.
And she said, oh, no, it's not a date.
I was a little stung, of course.
And so then when the bill came, what happened?
We split it. We split the bill when the bill came.
Because if it's a date, I'll pay.
If it's not a date, I'm not paying.
The whole thing, right? So, yeah, so saying, listen...
I want to respect you as a person, not just as a body and a vagina or whatever it is.
I'm not saying you say this on the first date, but yeah, I would love to get married, but partly as my own upbringing, my own bad habits, but I'm having trouble finding a woman who just provides real value as a person rather than just as someone to sleep with.
And, you know, sex is great, but it can't be the foundation of anything because I have to bring more than sex to the relationship.
If we're going to get married and you're going to have my babies, then I need to bring a lot more than just sex to the relationship.
And so because of that, you have to bring more.
And I'm sure you can. I'm just sort of being clear about what I need to get married.
You need to bring a lot more. Than sex to the relationship.
Than your body, yeah. Yeah, of course, right?
I mean, because otherwise, I have to be sex plus $100,000.
You have to just be sex.
That's a ripoff, right? Sorry, go ahead.
Yeah. No, I've asked that question because I'm like, well, if I'm providing everything, I'm paying for everything, what do I get?
And like 9 out of 10 times, it's like, you get me.
Well, I already have you. It's a good deal, right?
Yeah, I mean, okay. So then like, I'm fine.
I don't need to get married. So I already have you, you know?
Well, also, it's like, okay, well, then I'm not paying for you to stay home and raise kids.
You got to work. No, no, I want to stay home and raise the kids.
It's like, okay, well then you get me plus $100,000 and I just get you?
Am I worth minus $100,000?
I've got to pay $100,000 just to be equal to you every year?
Come on. Nobody with any respect would say yes to that, right?
Yeah, so I'm happy with the way things are.
I don't want to get married because I already have you and let's see where it goes.
I was conflicted.
I don't know why, but that's really what it was.
I didn't see me gaining value out of anything.
Right. So I felt like I was being used.
Well, because your mother brought no value to you.
No, she didn't. And she still doesn't.
No. She doesn't give you any advice.
She's not helping you achieve your life goals.
She's not willing to admit that she's wrong.
She's not willing to listen to your issues about how you were raised because she's the greatest mother in the world.
So this, like, narcissistic vanity or whatever is going on, I have no idea how to label it as an amateur, but...
That's what it is. Your mother didn't bring any value to you.
You said that when she got remarried when you were 15, she had a bad relationship with her second husband, and so she didn't really bring any value to him.
So this is why I asked, what value do women bring to your life?
Yeah, and I was like the scapegoat for that relationship.
I think when I went wrong, they pointed at me.
I caused it.
So that kind of turned me off to marriage when I was a lot younger.
I'm like, I don't want this garbage. It's too much work.
And I felt that my mom's relationship is my relationship.
So I kind of avoided marriage.
Well, how about you're in your 40s and you stop letting your mom run your love life?
Yeah. You know?
Yeah. Stop letting your mom run your love life.
Yeah, and it is subliminally.
I'm a male in person. Your mom is not all women.
She's just a particular kind of woman.
And now you'd say, ah, yes, but I've met a lot of women like my mom.
And it's like, well, of course you have.
Because you're seeing femininity through the lens of your mother.
And so you're going to end up seeing...
You're going to end up dating a lot of women like your mom.
And then you're going to... I did.
You know? Yeah, I mean, it's like if I put on...
Red colored sunglasses and I say, man, everything in the world is tomato colored.
It's like, well, yeah, because I got a filter on, right?
So you say, well, it's hard for me to find a woman who adds value.
It's like, hey, I bet you've bet hundreds of women who would add value.
You just haven't classified them as feminine or sexy or attractive because of your programming and therefore you've stepped around them or stepped over them or ignored them or whatever, right?
Completely. I mean, I've met some amazing, amazing women in my life, and I, you know, didn't see their value because I was looking at things that didn't matter when I was younger.
Well, and do you know how annoying it is for those women to look at you, an intelligent, attractive guy, just constantly chasing these shallow women off a cliff?
Yeah, disappointed, you know, annoyed a little bit, I suppose, you know, but I mean, at that point in time, I would have been a horrible partner, I feel.
Well, no, but if you identify these issues, then you can change them, right?
Yeah, yeah, I'm saying, but now I've identified them.
Not then. Then I was in a different world entirely.
So here's the thing. So you're out there dating, right?
And you will have, of course, you will have the impulse to sleep with women and so on.
And you have to ask yourself, if I'm really honest with this woman, Yeah.
whatever, right?
She would be kind of insulted and probably wouldn't want to sleep with you, right?
Like, I'll sleep with you, but I'll never date you.
And now, if she does sleep with you, then you've got to run.
Like, don't do that because if she's willing to be that insulted and still sleep with you, you're going to have a bunny boiler on your hands.
So that's the hot, crazy matrix off the charts, right?
Yes, sir.
So, yeah, just be really, really honest because...
Can you be honest with the woman about what you really think and feel?
And if you can't, you know, stop lying.
Just stop lying. It's a sort of basic virtue thing.
So it's not really about the sex.
It's that if you have to lie to get sex, in a sense by maybe dangling commitment, which isn't really there or whatever, but if you have to lie to get sex, that's dangerous and humiliating for you both.
And It means that you're just going to be around women who are susceptible to be lied to.
In other words, women who aren't wise, who are as unschooled in wisdom as you were unschooled by your mom and your stepdad, I guess.
And so if you're going to lie, in a sense, or withhold information in order to get sex, you're just going to end up being surrounded by gullible women.
And it's not very elevated, if that makes sense.
Yeah, because at some point sex goes away and you're left with who they are as a person and if there's nothing there, then the whole thing just unravels very quickly.
Satin sheets are very romantic.
What happens when you're not in bed?
Is that right? Listen, the Crypt Keeper was right.
It's based on how she looks now.
So yeah, that would be my suggestion.
I think the reason that you're stuck on this woman is because you've got unprocessed pain for being...
Abandoned as a child, being ignored as a child, as you say, having to raise yourself.
And because you had to raise yourself, you don't have any particular moral principles to follow.
And in the absence of moral principles, we follow bodily functions.
We follow lust.
We follow sexual conquest.
And you're told that to be a man is to sleep with a lot of women.
And that's very primitive, right?
And that's not really what masculinity is for.
Masculinity isn't for sex.
Masculinity is for...
Yes.
That's why there are men and women, not to have sex, but to raise children.
That's why we exist as a deomorphic sexual species, right?
So if you redefine your masculinity as having a quality woman to protect and provide, having kids to protect and provide for, then putting another notch on the endless belt and squirting into another gullible hole is really not going to be the then putting another notch on the endless belt and squirting into another gullible Gullible hole is really not going to be the definition of masculinity.
That's more the definition of, you know, being an over-hormoned primate of some kind, if that makes sense, right?
Yeah, that does make sense.
I think if you redefine all of that.
And the other thing, too, is I think it's also important to recognize that, I mean, this may be the first time that you've really been rejected, right?
I know you said you had four or five longer relationships, but if you said, I want to marry you to a woman and she basically says, get lost, that's painful, right?
Completely painful. That sent me into a thought of sadness and depression because I knew she was an amazing girl.
I can't go with you there.
I can't go with you there. I can't go with you with this.
Don't go from promiscuity to one-itis.
She was the one. She was the only one.
I'll never find anyone like her again.
No, no, because look, she...
She didn't bring up the value question with you at all.
She slept with you on the first date that you were together.
She covered up all conflicts and then when you...
And she swallowed insults without standing up for herself and telling you in no uncertain terms that you were absolutely never to speak to her like that again.
She was assertive.
And then she just blew up, right?
So she V-bombed you, right?
She had sex with you to get you to bond.
She didn't raise a fuss.
She didn't talk about any contentious issues.
She didn't talk about anything that might cause any problems.
Yes, you were being played a little bit, my friend.
And then when she didn't get what she wanted, she had a temper tantrum.
And then she ran away, didn't talk about things.
Then she comes back wanting to get married and then dumps you.
Come on, man.
This is a little crazy.
Don't talk to me about what a wonderful girl she is.
Yeah.
It's all about the sex stuff.
I mean, at some point, once they get you there, then you can't see straight.
It's like Odysseus with, you know, what's her name, the goddess?
Calypso, right? Was it Calypso?
Yeah. I'm not sure which aspect of Odysseus' journey you're talking about here.
Well, when he was in the island and the goddess kind of blinded him to love her, basically.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was Calypso, wasn't it?
Yeah, like, look, women absolutely know that the blood either goes down or it goes up.
And a woman who has sex with you early is trying to get you to bond with her before you evaluate her character.
It's a form of cult.
The cults love bomb you, right?
And so, listen, I'm not saying that she's a terrible person.
I'm not saying there were good things about her, but if she really wants to get together with you, she would ask you about your childhood.
She would ask you about your mom.
She'd look for red flags.
She'd try and help you understand commitment issues.
She would really be there for you, and she would provide such value in terms of self-knowledge that you'd be like, I've got to marry this person.
She's so wise. She's going to provide me such great value as a person.
That's very true, actually, Stefan.
She didn't do any of that, right?
No, she didn't do any of that.
Not even a smidgen of it.
Yeah, she gave you hot sex and lots of fun and no conflict, and then she screamed at you, stormed off, came back, wanted to marry you, dumped you again.
No, no, no, dude, this is not...
You dodged a bullet.
I'm just going to tell you.
And the other thing, too, is that she also, because she's so hungry for her papers, it could very easily have been the case that she would have married you, She would have got locked into your income and she would have dumped you for a younger man.
I think that's even quite possible also.
It certainly is. So imagine you wake up tomorrow losing your hair.
Get that time accelerant going.
That's never going to happen. So you're saying I should buy a pill to lose my hair to be happy.
Yeah, whatever the opposite of Rogaine is.
Something like that. Or, you know, you could just selectively shave it up there, give yourself a good old widow's peak.
Yeah, just shave it. Yeah, yeah. No, no, because if you shave it, you know you can grow it back.
I want to lose it entirely.
No, no, but you would lose some of the good looks of the hair.
That's all I'm saying. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What's it? There's an old Seinfeld where the guy's like, he's super good looking and George, who's bald, notices.
It's like, I say you got 12 to 18 months tops.
The guy's like, I gotta lock a girl down before I go bald.
Anyway, it's just kind of funny, but there's some real truth in that.
All right, listen, I'm going to stop here.
Was that a fairly useful convo?
Completely. You kind of helped me a lot in terms of my flaws and the way I should look at things in a different way.
And I agree. You mentioned a couple of books.
I think Gene Wars was one. What was the other one that you mentioned?
So, no. Gene Wars is a podcast series that I did some years ago.
Okay. So, you can...
And if you want to know the promiscuity stuff, just do a search.
You can go to bombinthebrain.com or do a search for bombinthebrain at fdrpodcast.com.
The book, Real-Time Relationships, you can get at freedomain.com slash books.
And the other one is Gene Wars, G-E-N-E, Wars.
It's a series I did on the R versus K selection theory of reproduction, which I certainly found very helpful when I was looking at my 20s.
And I think you will as well.
And don't just say my flaws, like, you know, you inherited some of these as well, and you don't have a society or a culture that's really helping you much with these.
But, you know, that's the beauty of philosophy.
Yeah. That can help as well.
That's why we have you to help us because you kind of give us perspective that we never had.
Well, I hope so. Thank you.
Well, thanks very much. I appreciate that.
Yeah, thanks everyone so much for a great afternoon's chat and lots of love from here.
Don't forget to go to freedomain.locals.com to sign up to really the premier and premium free domain community.
Lots of love. Take care, everybody.
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