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June 20, 2022 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:39:41

A JAMAICAN WOMAN TRAPPED IN JAPAN! Freedomain Call In

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	I'm so nervous.
	I don't know what to say.
	You know what? Here's the funny thing, right?
	Here's the funny thing that everyone starts off nervous and then like within five minutes, we're all chatting like we're old friends because, you know, if you listen to the show before, that's kind of the way it plays.
	So I appreciate that.
	I know I am completely terrifying in every way, shape and form, but it'll be fine, I promise.
	Now, did you want to just tell me what's going on?
	Did you want to read the email? What's your pleasure?
	Uh... Right.
	I'm not sure. I guess I should just read the email and go from there.
	Sure. Okay.
	I just re-read it and I'm repeating myself.
	Well, you know, if it's a crime to repeat yourself on this show, I'm going to go to jail forever.
	Okay. Dear Stefan, I wanted to reach out to you as I feel...
	Like I am ready to move past my childhood trauma and you are probably the only person that I feel can understand.
	I do not believe in therapy and I would like to talk about my childhood trauma and want to figure out how to let go of that memory.
	I feel isolated and alone and unsure of how to move on and I would like your help in figuring it out.
	I am a Jamaican woman who, at 11 years old, moved to Japan with my mother and stepfather.
	I haven't left Japan since and never been back to Jamaica.
	They immediately divorced upon moving to Japan and my mother abandoned me here with my Japanese stepfather to take care of me.
	But he was an abusive man.
	I lived in constant fear of being kicked out of his house as he was not legally obliged to keep me as I was never adopted.
	I was living in a country where I did not speak the language, did not belong in, was not allowed to attend school freely, lacked education, and kept falling behind year after year.
	I eventually learned Japanese once I was near graduating from high school, but I had not learned much because of my lack of Japanese up to that point, and the system just ignored me as I was a foreigner.
	At 17, I was told to leave school as my stepfather remarried and I was told to go live with his girlfriend in another city.
	I began working from then and was eventually kicked out of that home.
	Because of my complete lack of education and being illiterate, I could not find a job.
	This has been a struggle since I had to work hard to learn to read and to relearn English.
	So I could get a job.
	I, to this day, live with feelings of isolation as I feel I don't belong here.
	The constant fear and abuse I face as a child keeps affecting my life and my current mental health.
	And I would like help moving on.
	To be more detailed for my life, I would like to add this bullet point This bullet point outline of my life.
	Should I read the bullet points too?
	What do you think? Yeah, if you don't mind, I think that would be good, yeah.
	Okay. I am 32 years old now.
	My parents got divorced immediately upon moving to Japan with me.
	I was 11 years old at the time, attending sixth grade school.
	I was forced to live with my Japanese stepfather until high school.
	I got put into a Japanese school from sixth grade and I was unable to speak the language and was unable to learn anything and they didn't know what to do with me.
	I was just attending but I was ignored.
	Compounding this issue, I also lacked any basic education from early childhood.
	As I did not attend school in Jamaica at all.
	I did not attend kindergarten to sixth grade.
	The next bullet point.
	I was always afraid my stepfather would throw me away because I was a burden to him.
	As he would sometimes threaten to kick me out.
	I was living with him from sixth grade to high school.
	I was verbally and sexually abused during the time I was living with him.
	At the home, I was completely ignored and verbally and sexually abused.
	I was forbidden to go out with friends and have a boyfriend.
	When I was in school, the teachers on the first day of sixth grade, upon me arriving to Japan, Acknowledged that I can't do basic math and they told my parents but my mother just yelled at me and didn't help.
	I ended up just going to school as if nothing was wrong.
	I remember I wanted to complain back to my mother because while I was in Jamaica I wasn't going to school at all because of her so how could I know anything?
	I completely lack any basic education in any subject, including math and English.
	I was illiterate, but I couldn't tell them as I was afraid.
	Next. Sorry, do you mean them being the school?
	Them being my parents.
	And also the school, too.
	Because they didn't.
	Yes. Just so you know, as you speak, my heart is breaking into a thousand pieces, but we'll...
	We'll send out the scouts and pull them all back together to help you out in the convo.
	But this is like a shockingly and astonishingly tragic and awful story.
	And like just, you know, human being to human being, my heart completely goes out to you.
	But keep going.
	I'll hold it together.
	Okay, thank you.
	I managed to make it to middle school, but I kept falling behind.
	I didn't know what to do and as they just ignored me, so I just kept going to school as if nothing was wrong.
	At that point, I still didn't know how to do basic math or anything.
	I still could not speak Japanese well enough.
	I was able to speak Japanese by the end of high school, but I am years behind.
	I still couldn't do basic math until very recently in my life.
	Now I don't have a family and I am an orphan and I don't know my mother or stepfather anymore.
	My stepfather disappeared.
	He kicked me out of his house after he remarried and took me out of school when I was 17.
	He kicked me out because his mother and wife found out that he was sexually abusing me.
	They wanted me out of the house, but he thought that it would be better if I would live with his girlfriend.
	The wife and his mother found out because she read my diary and they got mad at me.
	That's when they decided to send me to live with his girlfriend, as the wife and the grandmother did not want me there anymore.
	I never finished high school.
	After being removed from school, my stepfather sent me to live with his, so I said girlfriend earlier, but it's a mistress slash business partner.
	Okay. I'm going to need a chart on the wall here, you know, with those threads coming from place to place.
	Right. It's all over the place. I think I'm following so far.
	Okay. No more wrinkles.
	That's it. No more soap opera things.
	Just keep going and we'll hang in there.
	But no, sorry. Please go ahead. He sent me to live with his mistress slash business partner in the city I currently live in to this day.
	I also lived with the same rules.
	Forbidden to make friends or boyfriends, threatened to be kicked out again.
	I lived with his mistress business partner for three or four years.
	While living with her, I worked at his company, a distribution company.
	And then at 20 years of age, because I had not gone to school, I was afraid I could not do basic math Such as multiplication and division.
	I didn't feel safe telling my stepfather as he would say it was too late, so I also ignored it.
	I figured I couldn't live like this anymore.
	I asked if I could go to school again and they refused.
	Even if I paid for it myself, they refused to let me go.
	It's a school. Now, by school here, do you mean what they would call college or university or some sort of technical thing?
	Oh, like a cramped school, I was thinking at that point.
	What is a cramped school?
	A cramped school is like after school.
	Okay. Oh, okay.
	Okay. Okay. Got it. Yeah.
	Okay. My stepfather had crazy rules I needed to follow, such as me being forbidden from having any friends, dating, or going to school.
	If I did, he threatened to have me kicked out.
	Okay, next.
	At one point, I decided to ignore these rules, and I found a boyfriend online, as I thought that was my only way out.
	At 21 years old, I realized I couldn't do this anymore.
	I couldn't as I realized time kept getting behind.
	The day I decided I wasn't going to pay attention, I went on a date.
	When I came back home from my date, my stepfather and his mistress slash business partner Kicked me out of the home and told me to leave and gave me my passport and said I couldn't come back and that they would ship me my things.
	I was very traumatized and I didn't have a place to stay and my boyfriend at the time helped me set up an apartment where I could stay.
	The boyfriend was a 56 year old married man.
	I then started working at a hostess club, a job my boyfriend helped me get as I was interested in it and I worked for two years.
	This was a terrible experience because I wasn't welcome there.
	I was getting abused by the clients every day as I was a foreigner slash black woman and I didn't know I'm sorry to interrupt, but can you tell me a little bit, what is a hostess club?
	It's like a gentleman's bar where men come to drink and then a lady will sit beside you and drink with you.
	Oh, so the women drink with the men so that the men will buy drinks and then, I guess, tip the women, that kind of thing?
	Yes. No tipping, no tipping, but it's very high-end.
	We just need to get them to drink.
	It's like $50,000 just to sit, and then after that, you have to pay for the alcohol and champagne and stuff like that.
	Okay, got it. Okay, where was I? Sorry, I keep throwing you off.
	It's okay, I have it in front of me.
	As I was a foreign black woman and I didn't know what to do, so I just bought it for two years and at one point I couldn't, so I had to stop.
	Clients are rich people attending a high-end club where they were abusive towards me Since they did not believe I fit in, they said it was against the rules to have a black person in a high-end club.
	I couldn't get another job here as I am a foreigner.
	Here and the only jobs available for foreigners is being an English teacher.
	And at the time I couldn't speak English very well as I never went to school for English And was around Japanese since I was 11 years old.
	I am very depressed and isolated and got more depressed and suicidal.
	I got on welfare as I couldn't work.
	Okay, I should keep going.
	Hello? Yes, please go ahead.
	Okay. At this time I am still depressed.
	I spent over a year trying to get out of the welfare situation I was in.
	Now I was 24 years old.
	I met a Japanese guy while I was trying to find someone because I was isolated.
	But here in Japan, it's not easy to find a partner.
	Eventually, I found a guy online.
	I told him I couldn't do the vision.
	He told me to go to Kumon, a kids' class, but adults could attend.
	I learned multiplication and division while there.
	He changed my life.
	I didn't know it was that simple.
	I was still on welfare at this time, but I moved and I was now living in the apartment I am still in to this day.
	I was on welfare and the money wasn't enough for me to go to school.
	I had a cash card loan before I was on welfare, $3,000, and kept taking money and putting it back in circle of taking out a loan to pay a loan.
	It took years because I was starting from scratch.
	I used the money to go to school and I did that for two years, living off that loan for two years.
	I was going to school to learn basic math and Japanese as well.
	After those two years, I was mentally in a better place and I applied to teaching jobs.
	But I did not speak English or have a high school diploma at the time.
	I was basically stuck as I didn't graduate high school, so I studied English on my own.
	I am to this day still attending school, studying English, Math and Japanese, improving my basic English, Math, English and Japanese skills.
	After three or four years, I applied to a computer class.
	Eventually, at 27 years old, I got my first teaching job.
	Once a week and the money wasn't enough.
	I wanted to pay back my loan as I no longer could cycle the payments anymore.
	I couldn't take out another loan to pay the loan.
	Now I am 28 years old.
	I started escorting to pay back my loan as I didn't have enough money to keep going to school.
	To this day I am still attending school and escorting.
	I financially got better after escorting.
	I also got a better teaching job.
	From 28 years old I was doing better financially.
	I was making $1,500 to $2,000 a month from teaching.
	And then I was also making escort money around $3,000 to $5,000 monthly.
	Doing that to this day until I lost that teaching job due to COVID. COVID has affected me financially and my mental health.
	After COVID, I lost my teaching and escort jobs before I was making $50,000.
	But that drops to a thousand for escorting and there has not been any improvements to this day.
	That money mostly now comes from a client who became my boyfriend.
	I met a boyfriend at 28 who changed my life.
	He was a client and still is.
	Like my past boyfriend, he is married.
	He is a 54-year-old.
	But it is currently different since we became more of a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship.
	In a sense, I am his mistress.
	He still supports me financially every month with $1,000 a month.
	I am still seeing other clients.
	But due to recent hardships, I lost the teaching job and my boyfriend.
	However, due to my previous earnings, I was able to put myself into university.
	Thank you for reading this, and I hope to hear back from you.
	Okay, I think I finished.
	How do you feel going through that?
	I'm trying not to be emotional.
	Why are you trying not to be emotional?
	There's a lot to be emotional about here.
	Yes, but I'm a very shy person.
	I just don't like to be emotional.
	I'm trying to. When I wrote it.
	It's totally fine with me. If you feel emotional, if you feel passionate, it's totally fine with me.
	You don't have to, obviously, right?
	But if it's there, it's no problem for me.
	My heavens, like, what a tale, what a story.
	It was hard to put together.
	I thought it might be confusing.
	No, no, I get it.
	I get it. What were the hardships that cost you your boyfriend?
	Was it COVID? Well, basically he said basically he cannot afford my monthly allowance anymore.
	That's the reason.
	So your mother was like full-on black Jamaican.
	Was your father ethnically Japanese or some other ethnicity?
	Oh, no, no, no. Fully black.
	That's me in the picture you see.
	My sky picture.
	Yes. Got it. Yes, I am full black.
	Both my biological parents are full black Jamaican.
	I mean, next obvious question for me, at least, and maybe you know, maybe you don't know, why did they move to Japan?
	I mean, Japanese culture has its strengths, but welcomingness to other ethnicities, particularly blacks, is not super high on the strengths of the Japanese culture, if I may say so.
	Yes, it's not, yes.
	Well, they moved back to Japan because my stepfather was Japanese.
	They got married in Jamaica and I guess maybe he just wanted to move back to his country.
	Okay. Yes.
	So your stepfather was Japanese?
	Yes, my stepfather was Japanese.
	Do you know the story of your biological dad?
	Oh, I recently got a...
	No, like four years ago, I got a message from someone saying who is my aunt and that he died of a heart attack.
	So apparently he died four years ago.
	But I don't really know him, so I didn't really feel anything because I don't really...
	No demand. Like, you don't have any memories of the guy from when you were little, right?
	I mean, yes, but he was abusing me too.
	I think it's also a cultural thing to beat on your child in Jamaica.
	I think it is, because I hear it a lot.
	So I guess it's a cultural thing.
	But yes, I was getting... Well, I mean, and...
	Sorry to interrupt, but like a total alarm...
	Thing that I've been trying to raise for years with some of the studies that say, you know, like half of black girls report being raped by black relatives before they turn 18.
	Now, I don't know how rigorous that all is, but there's a cultural thing there as well, which is this sort of predation on children.
	It's just horrifying. It's sad, yes.
	But then, so then your stepdad was also sexually abusing or molesting you, right?
	Yes, absolutely. My gosh.
	And your mom?
	My mom. It's your biological mom.
	Yes. She just cut and ran.
	She just bailed and ran when you said they got divorced right after you got to Japan?
	Yes. We got to Japan.
	She stayed maybe, I don't know, for like two, three months.
	And then she wanted to go back to Jamaica because she said she couldn't live in Japan.
	She couldn't fit in.
	She didn't speak Japanese or anything like that, right?
	Oh, obviously. No, no. Yeah, maybe she learned it when she got together with your stepdad or whatever.
	No, no. So, I mean, you know, fundamental question.
	She also left me because she thought I would have a better life here and that if she took me to Jamaica, she wouldn't be able to take care of me anyway.
	Why not? Well...
	In Jamaica, women, they don't really have jobs.
	Especially back in the days, maybe 10 years ago, it was still not developed.
	So I don't think... Woman...
	Yeah, I don't think...
	Unless you have a degree.
	Usually, if I remember clearly, like they live...
	Like five or six people will live in the same house.
	And usually there's one person with a degree and has a good job.
	So basically that one person...
	Supports the other family, supports everyone.
	I think that's the structure there, over there.
	But I don't remember. No, no, I mean, I get that.
	You know, part of me thinks that, okay, well, couldn't she just find some guy?
	She did find some guy, but that's why she left, too.
	She was calling some guy from Jamaica.
	Oh, she had a boyfriend when she was married to her stepdad, and then...
	There's a lot of overlap here.
	Can't these people color within the lines?
	I know. Sorry.
	She said apparently she was unhappy living in Japan and unhappy with my stepfather.
	So then she's got this boyfriend, and I assume that she and the boyfriend said, or maybe the boyfriend said, listen, I want you, but I don't want your daughter.
	Like, I don't want the daughter from the other guy.
	And so she's like, no, no, no, there's a good life for you here in Japan.
	I'm heading back for my boy toy or something like that.
	Well, I was a child, so I wasn't let into the story.
	But I saw her crying over the phone talking to some guy in Jamaica.
	And my stepfather found out with the phone bills.
	So that's when things got rocky.
	Oh, so he found out that she was on the phone a lot to Jamaica, and maybe it came out about the guy.
	Yes. Now, you said your mom's not in your life anymore.
	Did you stay in touch with her after she left, or did she stay in touch with you, I guess is a better way to put it?
	She tries to contact me, but to be honest, I don't know who she is, so it kind of just feels weird.
	It feels like I'm getting a message from a stranger.
	Well, and she left you...
	To the tender mercies of a child molester.
	That's about as bad as things could be, isn't it?
	Right, yes, yes.
	No, listen, if I'm wrong about anything in your life, you just tell me and I'll follow your lead because I'm sort of bouncing into your life here.
	So, you know, anything that I say, you can just tell me, dude, that's totally wrong.
	Or, you know, maybe not dude, but whatever works for you.
	She left me because I would have a better life in Japan.
	At the time, Jamaica was not developed or anything or anything.
	Okay, let me ask you this, though.
	Let me ask you this.
	Like, given what you know now...
	Looking back, it's hard to imagine that she was right.
	To be honest, I do think she's right.
	Knowing all the difficulties in Jamaica, but leaving you in a country with a molester where you don't speak the language, and there's not a whole lot of fitting in that's going on for you, right?
	Right. And so...
	I mean, I don't know.
	I mean, it's a real theoretical question, but to me it's not totally clear-cut that, oh, it's a better life for you in Japan.
	But I'll have a worse life in Jamaica.
	How do you know? Because it's...
	I mean, financially maybe, but...
	Yes, and I'd probably have to do prostitution, which I am anyway, but...
	Right, so you've done the division, right?
	That's a denominator that kind of washes out, right?
	Yes. Okay.
	Okay, so you're with your stepdad, and I find it astounding that you're in the Japanese school.
	You don't speak Japanese. You don't speak English, really.
	Yes. And what they're just...
	Pushed you forward every grade?
	Just like, yeah, off you go. Let's go to the next one.
	Exactly. That's how Japan is.
	Even if you're behind significantly, they just push you up.
	They don't let students stay behind, even if they're not doing well.
	Yeah. They don't have that kind of system.
	I'm trying to find any decency, which is probably impossible, like in this horrible stepfather of yours.
	Did he take any interest in, you know, just tossing you a book on Japanese?
	Or did he coach you at all?
	Or was it just like you're totally on your own as far as trying to learn the language and fit in?
	Yes, I was completely on my own.
	I tried to reach out to him after a while, but...
	He would just say, it's too late.
	You're already in high school and you don't know multiplication.
	And of course, he took no ownership for any of that, right?
	Yes. Wow.
	I'm so sorry. Surreal is a word that doesn't capture the emotional brutality and horror of the situation anymore.
	But surreal is a word that just kind of pops into my head.
	It's almost like living this never-ending dream slash nightmare of just kind of drifting through the days like a balloon bouncing through a house and no progress, no connection, no friendships, no knowledge.
	I mean, the days must have blurred together something fierce.
	Yes, I would usually try to stay at school as long as I could.
	And leave the house early as I could because I just...
	I couldn't stay there.
	Yeah, I know that one.
	It's like people are like, hey, you're really into extracurricular activities.
	It's like, yes, the big one is not going home.
	Yes, yes, I would come early.
	Computer lab? I'm in.
	A swim team? Totally.
	Water polo? Oh, yeah, I love getting wet.
	That's what I was doing in middle school, yeah.
	So... The boyfriend thing, is that because he wanted in this horrible, vile way, like he wanted to keep you for himself?
	The boyfriend as in?
	You mean my stepfather?
	Yeah, your stepfather's ban on dating.
	Exactly. So that's something I cannot grasp myself, but I think maybe he sees me as his woman or something.
	Yeah. Yes.
	Well, I mean, I think...
	Sorry to interrupt.
	Something just sort of popped into my head here, which is, I guess his concern is this, that if you get a boyfriend, then obviously you're going to have some challenges with sexuality, right?
	Because of the molestation when you were a child.
	So you're going to have these challenges with sexuality and the boyfriend is going to notice if things progress to that direction and he's going to say, what's up?
	What's going on? And then if you tell him...
	Boom. Like his secret is out.
	Your stepfather's secret is out.
	And then what happens? Who knows, right?
	Right, right. And I think, yes, that's why he didn't want me to have friends.
	I think he probably also wanted me to be dependent on him because I would offer that I would pay for school on my own and try to go to after school so I can at least learn basic math.
	But they would literally refuse that I do that.
	Right, okay. That I couldn't understand.
	Sorry, go ahead. I just couldn't understand why.
	Well, it's almost like he wanted to keep you a child.
	A child? Maybe, yes.
	Because a child doesn't know multiplication, doesn't like a little kid, right?
	So it's almost like because that was his horrible sexual desire or his creepy fetish or whatever, like maybe he wanted to keep you a child, right?
	In that way. And also keep you, as you say, crippled and dependent.
	But then, of course, he says, oh, stay crippled and dependent, and then he's like kicking you out into the white world when he finds out about the boyfriend.
	Exactly. Right.
	Now, so the first man, I think, was he 54 or the married guy that you first dated?
	My first online boyfriend.
	Yes, after they kicked me out and after a couple of years.
	So, I think I was around 20, 24, 23 at the time.
	Yes, I found a boyfriend online.
	Was he in Japan? Well, not a boyfriend, a guy.
	Oh, yes, yes. So he was like a Japanese guy with a wife, but he's got you as his mistress, right?
	Yes. It's actually very common here.
	It's actually not even taboo.
	Yes. Now, just, sorry, one other thing, I mean, more than one other thing, but with the Gentleman's Club that you worked at, you said that the customers were abusive, but you still worked there, right?
	So, was it that they enjoyed abusing you, or was it that there was new customers?
	I mean, it seems odd that if the customers, quote, hate you, that you would continue to work there.
	Well, I was okay with some of the clients.
	Some of the clients would accept me, but, like, 60%, The clients did not accept, so I just tried to get along with the ones that already get along, but obviously I still have to talk to the ones that are very abusive.
	I still didn't have a basic education or a diploma, so I was scared to leave as well.
	I didn't know what I would do.
	Okay, so help me understand something.
	Yes. Because from the outside, I don't want to speak for everyone, just sort of my own personal experience, there is a great and loud cry that comes out from my innards.
	And you can tell me how this is insane of me.
	Okay. But the cry goes something like this.
	Yes. Why are you still in Japan?!
	Right. I knew you would say that.
	You know, it's a collective question.
	It comes up for me like a volcano.
	I won't do it again because it'll hurt my throat.
	But why? I mean, I understand that this is your home for, you know, more than two decades now, right?
	Exactly. This is the only country I know.
	Right. I mean, but the fact that you speak English and Japanese is...
	Of significant value elsewhere in the world.
	I mean, obviously you've thought about it, but just sort of step me through the process of, I mean, have you traveled to Jamaica or to other countries?
	Never. I've never left Japan.
	You've never left? Yes, I've only went to Korea, like the neighbor.
	Yes, like a two-hour flight.
	It's basically Japan.
	Well, I don't know that you want to tell the Koreans that.
	Okay. No, but I mean, you must have thought, I know that there have been money issues, right?
	There was welfare, there was a $3,000 loan, and I get all of that.
	Yes. But I mean, you must have been tempted or thought about it.
	I mean, have you...
	Yes, I've thought about it, but then again, to where?
	I don't have anything to go back to.
	I don't have a family in Jamaica, and Jamaica is not a developed country, so...
	What kind of work or life would I have?
	Well, I don't know.
	But I mean, it would be a visit kind of thing, right?
	A visit? I mean, I'm sure I'd like it for vacation, but living?
	I'm not so sure.
	Right. Because I have a lot of Jamaican friends.
	I think you'd be better off than a lot of the people in Jamaica, just because of your experiences and so on, but...
	Again, I have no capacity to give any advice, obviously, in this kind of thing.
	I'm just kind of curious what your thoughts have been about all of that.
	Also, I'm not sure I can function in a territorial country anymore.
	It just, I don't know.
	I'm not sure. You're used to like tidy subways and right, right.
	Okay. Yes.
	Right. And you're used to feeling like a giant.
	No, I'm just kidding. I don't know how to do it.
	Right. Okay. So, okay.
	So, you're 32.
	Is that right? Right now I'm 32.
	I've been, yeah, still going to school.
	Right. And did you finish the computer science thing?
	The computer class.
	That was just, you know, basic IT computer stuff and Word, Excel, access, stuff like that.
	And I finished it, yes.
	And I still go to maths class and Japanese class and I still take English lessons.
	Alright, so let's pretend for a moment that I have a magic wand.
	A magic wand. A magic wand, okay.
	And I can wave my magic wand and you can get the life that will make you the happiest.
	Let's say, over the course of this conversation, pixie dust flows across the internet and gives you the power of wishing, right?
	What will your life look like if you have magic?
	What's your ideal? A man in my life, a man who loves me.
	That's the only wish I have.
	A man who really likes me and a single man.
	Hopefully not in his 50s.
	Yes, hopefully not in his 50s.
	I don't mean to disguise in their 50s because I'm looking in the mirror, but your age gap is a quarter century or 30 years plus so far, right?
	Yes. Right.
	Okay. So you would like a guy...
	To get married?
	To settle down? Do you want to have kids?
	To settle down? Kids?
	No, I do not want kids.
	Unless he is super rich.
	No, I just can't.
	You know, we're going to have a fight now.
	Right now. Kids, kids, kids.
	You know me and kids, right?
	I don't know if you've heard the shows.
	I'm just going to keep repeating kids until you buckle down and agree.
	No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, I do want kids.
	It's just that I don't have a family.
	Let's say I have a child and then my husband dies.
	Where am I going to go?
	You need help from the family as well.
	First of all, Japanese men are undead, right?
	They can't be killed. It's not as bad as Japanese women, but they're basically bulletproofs.
	Right. But I have to, as a woman, I have to think of the worst scenario because I'm the one who carries the burden.
	I'm the one that gets pregnant and basically crippled for a year.
	Crippled, that's a delightful way to put the glories of pregnancy.
	No, I get where you're coming from. But I mean, okay, look, that's where you would have, I mean, you would have your husband's family, right?
	Yes. I mean, they're not going to vanish from there.
	Hopefully. If the father dies.
	But still, I'm still in a vulnerable position.
	I don't want to put myself in like that.
	I'll be vulnerable.
	Also, since your boyfriends have been 25 to 30 years older, thinking about them dying is not as crazy as if they were your age, right?
	Yes. Right, okay.
	Okay, so settle down for sure and So with a husband, maybe kids, thin edge of the wedge.
	Maybe kids, yes. Maybe kids if he's like super healthy or something like that.
	Super healthy, super, yes, financially stable, then I guess I could take the risk, but I don't want to.
	I don't know what it is in yen, but what do you mean by financially stable?
	Are you talking like mega rich, upper middle class, middle class?
	What's the US equivalent of what he would make?
	10 million yen is probably in Japanese.
	Look at you doing your math and everything!
	I'm so glad you went to those classes because I'd have to take off my shoes to calculate this one.
	Ideally around $3 million to $5 million.
	So $30 million, sorry.
	$30 million to $50 million, ideally, a year.
	That's yen, right? I thought that was dollars.
	$30 million. $30 million to $50 million a year, that's a little bit more than upper middle class.
	Right. So yes, that's what I would like if I'm to have kids.
	Right. Okay.
	And what is the dating market like in Japan now?
	I know a lot of the Japanese don't want kids.
	They've got a whole bunch of Western propaganda that's like anti-kids, and this is one of the reasons why their birth rate is so low.
	But what is the dating market like if you want a husband rather than to be a mistress?
	I used to try before escorting.
	That's what I was always trying to do, but I couldn't find any.
	As a Western woman, you can't find a man here.
	They're not open...
	Dating outside their race.
	Yes. Now, I mean, there's obviously, that's a blanket statement.
	Is there, I mean, there must be a small number of Japanese men who would be willing to date outside their race.
	Is it just so rare that it's like not possible?
	Yes, yes. It's definitely rare, extremely rare.
	That's why most female Westerners, they usually go back up there and men stay.
	Men can find a woman.
	A Japanese woman.
	But it doesn't work the other way around.
	Interesting. So you hardly see it.
	So this brings me back to my original primal cry.
	Are you ready?
	You can step back from the headset.
	Okay. So if the ideal life for you is impossible in Japan, why are you still in Japan?
	I know I should leave, but then again, I'd have to start my life over from scratch in a new country.
	It just sounds so hard.
	I've been running my whole life.
	I'm going to have to climb another mountain.
	It just sounds exhausting.
	Because I'm already exhausted.
	No, listen, I appreciate that, and I'm not trying to diminish all of the immense and enormous suffering that you've gone through, for which, again, my heart goes out enormously.
	It's brutal what you've gone through, my friend.
	It really is just absolutely appalling in every conceivable way.
	But if the ideal life that you want is not possible in Japan, then you have to change your ideal life.
	Or you have to leave Japan.
	I mean, these are things I'm sure you know.
	I'm just trying to paint as stark a picture as possible.
	I know. I know.
	That's what everyone keeps telling me.
	Yes, I have to leave.
	But what country?
	I've never left.
	I've never seen any other country.
	I don't think I would want to live in the States.
	Why is that? Well, maybe I'm stereotyping.
	It just doesn't sound like a black people-friendly country.
	Compared to Japan?
	Oh, no. Maybe I'm missing something here.
	I'm not saying America's perfect, but compared to Japan?
	Actually, Japan is not that racist.
	I mean, for dating, in the dating scene, yes.
	But day-to-day life, not really.
	Right. So you go, look, America is a big old place, right?
	You can't blob. It's like saying Europe almost, right?
	Like you can't blob it together and just like it's all this or that place.
	There's lots of places that are different.
	But, you know, again, I can't be like your travel advisor or something like that.
	That's not a philosophical question.
	But, of course, at 32, if you're thinking about having kids...
	Yes. If you're thinking about it.
	I know that you're not particularly keen on it, but let's say you find a guy, my advice would be to shave back the 30 to 50 mil just a smidge because you're talking about probably one in a million guys.
	Right. Because if you are interested in potentially having kids, you've got to get moving, right?
	I know. But...
	I still haven't finished.
	Don't make me make that TikTok sound.
	Don't make me do it.
	Sorry, go ahead. I feel if I am to take the jump to move, I figured it would be more logical to have a master's degree first.
	I don't have that yet. I'm still in university, so after I finish this, I'm going to try to get I enrolled in a master's program.
	I feel maybe it would be easier to get a visa if I have a master's.
	But it's a couple of years more, right?
	Yes. Okay, so then you're mid-30s, right?
	And then you've got to move and set up shop and find some guy.
	But what kind of job would I be able to get as a high school graduate in the States as a foreigner?
	My life would be worse, I feel.
	But you have a superpower. A superpower.
	A superpower is you speak Japanese.
	Right. Yes.
	That's really good.
	There's lots of people who do business with Japan who, if you're fluent in Japanese and English...
	I'm trying not to be a career counselor here, but that's pretty wild.
	I know that they want more education.
	I get all of that. Yes.
	But if you can demonstrate the ability...
	There are a lot of people in the business world who...
	And I know this. I was an entrepreneur for many years.
	A lot of people in the business world don't really care about credentials that much.
	I mean, if you look at the whole Bitcoin thing, right?
	The whole Bitcoin thing is built on people.
	There aren't really that many credentials because it's kind of new in the business world, right?
	At least it was not too long ago.
	So there are a lot of people, and you may have to work contacts or find people or whatever, but there are a lot of people who, like, I don't really care that much about credentials.
	Some of the best people I ever hired had never...
	Graduated from computer science.
	I mean, I was a head programmer and I'd never taken a computer course in my life.
	Right. So, the credential thing, it's like, well, I have to jump through these hoops and then maybe… But, see, here's the thing.
	You, as an individual, have gone through such a wild and unusual life story, right?
	Yes. I mean, if you were to write this down, it would be as you did, right?
	I mean, when you first sent me the email, I'd be like, no, that can't be a thing.
	She's a troll. Like, no, I mean, and then I was reading more and I was like, you know, she's really genuine and a very heartfelt and honest person.
	But you've had such a unique experience that you're such an individual.
	Like, you have such unusual experiences and histories.
	Obviously, you know sales.
	You know marketing because of your time at the club, right?
	Right, right. You know computers.
	You know adult education.
	You've done teaching. You know English.
	You know Japanese. You have a skill set that is really...
	I mean, if somebody's looking for the kind of stuff you do, they could look for a long time and never find anyone but you.
	Really? Oh, absolutely.
	I guarantee you that. So you might be selling yourself short saying, well...
	I don't fit these particular letters that people want behind my name, like a master's MA or MSc or whatever.
	But there's a huge economy out there.
	I mean, here's the funny thing.
	Like, this is the funny thing. So you're talking to me about philosophy, right?
	Yes. Do I have a PhD in philosophy?
	No. I really don't!
	And so you're like, well, I've got to have all these credentials, but you're talking to a guy who doesn't have those credentials.
	And you, I assume you, I assume I'm not like the 20th philosopher you emailed saying I'd like to talk about my life and how, right?
	I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I was the first.
	You know, there are thousands of other philosophers in the world.
	They have degrees, they have teaching jobs, they have tenure, they have books published, they can call themselves a doctor of philosophy.
	Literally thousands of them in the world and you skipped all over them and you came to the guy with no Well, very few formal credentials.
	I mean, I have a master's, but you know, right?
	I've been listening to you for seven years now, so that's why.
	Right, so I appreciate that.
	So I've kept your attention and put a bee in your bonnet and given you smiles and tears, right?
	So you want to talk to me without massive amounts of credentials, but then you say, well, for me to have value in the world, I've got to have all those credentials.
	Well, because it's...
	That's how it is here in Japan.
	But we're talking not Japan.
	Right, right. Japan's kind of regimented and, you know, they're not super creative in their risk-taking approach, a lot of Japanese people.
	Yes. Whereas, you know, there's a lot more roll the dice.
	Like, I mean, if I was an employer and I got to talk to you, I'd be like, wow, can this woman ever survive?
	Yes. Can this woman ever pull herself out of holes?
	The fact that you've gotten to within striking distance of starting a master's degree while having zero functional education up until your late teens.
	Yes. Like, holy crap!
	Mid-20s, actually.
	Mid-20s. Sorry? Up until mid-20s.
	Okay, a quarter century.
	So you made it a quarter century with almost no education and...
	You're in university. You've been a teacher.
	I would look at that and say, wow, this woman's like Sputnik.
	I really worked hard.
	Yeah, you have worked hard.
	I really did. And that's why I'm exhausted.
	Right. Right.
	No, and that exhaustion, of course, is when you look at, hey, yay, another giant mountain to climb called move to another country.
	Exactly. Yes, I'm...
	I'm afraid and I'm just afraid that I have to climb this next mountain I already climbed.
	But I know I should probably leave the country if that's what I want.
	Well, if you're telling me your ideal life is to have a husband and you can't find a husband for love or money in Japan...
	Yes. I hate to say that's a no-brainer because you're a really intelligent woman, but I get it's not an intelligence thing.
	It's just an exhaustion thing, which again, I completely understand.
	I mean, you've had to... Climb up a mountain using only your teeth for over 30 years.
	Yes, yes.
	That's some tiring stuff.
	Yeah, yeah, no, I totally get that.
	And, you know, like the old, like there's a line from Blanche Dubois, sorry to give you like the whitest person on the planet as your inner voice, but, you know, she's like, I just need a soft place in the world to land in.
	Yes, I just want to settle down and breathe.
	Yeah. Now, let's turn for a sec to the, if it's alright with you, to the escorting, right?
	To the prostitution. Now...
	Yes. My first thought about that, obviously...
	I know, you don't like those things.
	No, no, no, I get that.
	Don't worry about that. I mean, I just...
	My first question is, is it safe?
	Right? I mean, I imagine in Japan it's safer than it would be in some other places.
	I can't imagine in Saudi Arabia it'd be having a whole lot of fun.
	But... Are you relatively safe in what you're doing?
	Actually, Japan is a big...
	What should I say?
	They have a big sex industry.
	So there's Brussels everywhere, more than convenience stores.
	Is it legal in Japan?
	So that's the thing.
	Yes and no. It's...
	It's illegal to have intercourse, but everything else is okay.
	Oh, so like oral sex, not just vaginal intercourse, that's the line?
	Yes, but it's done behind closed doors, as long as you don't publicly write it out.
	So that's why I say yes or no.
	They're not going to put a body cam on you and check, right?
	Yes, yes. In Thailand, maybe.
	So there is a sex industry or sex tourism in Japan.
	Is it more domestic or is it more foreigners coming in?
	Ah, both. Both, both.
	But I guess more domestic, yes.
	And your level of risk, just help me, because, you know, obviously caring about you, human being, how's your level of risk?
	It's safe. Japan is a very safe country.
	I've never had any issue.
	I screen them as well.
	So, yeah.
	Japan is a very, very safe country.
	I can leave my wallet and then it will still be here, there.
	What's your screening process?
	So I asked for their name, full names, and license plate number, picture, and phone number.
	And then you'd like to do a search, make sure they're not like some Jack the Ripper serial, blah, blah, blah.
	There's no kind of people like that here.
	It's a really safe country.
	There's no crime. Yeah, I know.
	I read this article just about how Japanese police are just bored out of their gore.
	There's nothing to do. So yeah, I haven't had any issues.
	I mean, I don't like it, but I needed the money to upgrade my life.
	And how did you get into the field?
	What was the process? First, I applied for an agency, and I was working for them for a couple of months, but then I decided to go independent, and I started doing it independent.
	And do you advertise, or how do you find clients?
	Is it word of mouth? Oh, no, no.
	I post on online apps.
	Wow. Yes.
	There's specifically those kind of apps.
	In Japan? Yeah, where you can post.
	Okay, so here's a tough question, right?
	Yes. I apologize for the toughness.
	It's okay. It's meant with great concern for your future and current well-being.
	I can't talk too much about the past, obviously, though I would if I could.
	So, I mean, if you want a wealthy husband, how's your wealthy husband going to feel about what you've been doing?
	Well, obviously I wouldn't tell him.
	Is there a way for him to find out?
	No. Do you think that keeping that information from your husband is going to lead to a positive and healthy relationship?
	How would he know, though?
	If he doesn't know, then it doesn't...
	No, go ahead.
	If he doesn't know, then it didn't exist.
	But it does exist.
	I mean, that's the challenge, right?
	In that if you look back and you say if some miracle, like you'd won the lottery, some miracle had occurred or you made different choices and you had never been an escort.
	Yes. I mean, you'd be a different person now if you'd never been an escort, right?
	No, I'd be even in a worse situation because I didn't have a job.
	What I mean is if you'd won the lottery or some inheritance or if you had not needed to do it as you felt.
	You'd be a different person in terms of you wouldn't want that for yourself if there was an alternative that you could see.
	Right, right. Obviously, that was my last option.
	So it exists because it's part of you.
	Yes. It's part of what you've done in your life.
	Yes. Let's just tossing all judgment aside because it's real easy to judge from the other side of the world when I've never had those situations.
	So just tossing all judgment aside.
	Yes. Because the effects of the escorting are within you.
	Yes. And so they're part of the marriage, but he wouldn't know specifically about it, right?
	Yes. And so you would have to lie both directly and indirectly.
	Like, there's the lying by omission, like, oh, what you've been doing for the last couple of years, and you're like, work in education!
	Yeah, that's what I tell them.
	Yeah, you're not really saying the other part, right?
	No. And do you think it's fair for a future husband for him not to know?
	But a lot of girls do this, and I see some of them are happily married.
	So, do you mean a lot of Japanese girls or girls in Japan?
	Yeah, a lot of Japanese girls, girls in Japan.
	Because the salary here is extremely low, so doing prostitution on the side is extremely common.
	Can you give me a rough guesstimate of, I mean, I know you've been a self-selecting group because there'd be people that you know, but can you give me a rough guesstimate of how many young Japanese women do you think are making money on the side in this way?
	I would say 60%.
	Gah! I was thinking it would top out at 10.
	Because it's not taboo here.
	It's not as taboo like it is in the States.
	It's pretty open.
	So then these girls, do you know if their husbands know about this when they get married or after?
	That I don't know.
	Probably not. Probably not.
	Wow. Wow. The effects of a 30-year recession, eh?
	Sorry, go ahead. They seem happy.
	They're happy. Yeah.
	Wow. I don't think it's an issue.
	It's just a cultural thing.
	Outside Japan, right?
	Because that's the challenge, right?
	It may not be an issue in Japan, but the other issue is you can't find a husband in Japan, right?
	But men marry escorts all the time, too.
	So I don't think they care.
	To be honest.
	But if they don't care, hang on, if they don't care, if they don't care, why wouldn't you tell?
	Well.
	I mean, I don't care that a woman's lived in Denver.
	So, but if she goes to great pains to hide that she ever lived in Denver and then says, well, he wouldn't care, then that's a contradictory position, right?
	Right. Well, I guess he might care a little bit.
	I guess it depends on how we meet.
	If I marry a client, obviously he doesn't care.
	Right. But, I mean, you can't really marry a client because clients won't marry you in Japan, right?
	Well, sometimes they're single.
	But, yes, the clients, Japanese men in general, they are not interested in a black girl, in a black woman.
	Right. Well, I guess they would be interested from an escort sense, right?
	Yes. But not from a marriage sense.
	Yes, yes. They will sleep with me behind closed doors, but not in public.
	Right. I mean, and that may just be a family thing, right?
	A family thing. Maybe more so than the individual.
	A society thing. Right, right, right.
	So that's why I thought, okay, maybe this is how I can...
	And I also get to connect with people.
	Sometimes... I get to become boyfriend and girlfriend-like with my clients, so I feel that's the only way to get what I'm trying to look for.
	But did I get this right that the boyfriend and girlfriend thing still does involve, that was the guy sending you $1,000 a month?
	Well, yes.
	Sorry, the boyfriend-girlfriend thing is not what traditionally would be a boyfriend-girlfriend thing.
	It's also somewhat like a more permanent escort thing.
	But now it's more on a deeper level.
	It's not, I see him, I get the cash, he gives me a monthly allowance.
	It's like an allowance.
	Not really payment for my service.
	Yeah, but boyfriends generally don't give girlfriends allowance.
	I mean outside of Japan or outside of this kind of...
	Is it more like the mistress thing?
	Like the man gives the mistress an allowance?
	Yes. So I guess a mistress, I should say.
	Maybe that's more appropriate.
	Yes. So I'm a mistress, yes.
	Now, I also...
	I'm checking my watch. I was very happy.
	I'm sorry? I was very happy.
	With the boyfriend thing? Yes.
	Well, but it's not going to get you the settle down thing, right?
	Yes. I mean, I assume you don't want to be a mistress until...
	I assume there's an aging out for mistresses at some point, maybe in your 40s or whatever.
	Yes. Then you've still got another 40 years to go and you're beyond wife material, you're beyond mistress material, you're beyond escort material.
	Then it's like you're twiddling thumbs and piling up cats in the back 40, right?
	Right. So I'm still trying to look for a regular boyfriend at the same time, but it's hard because they're not interested.
	And have you tried...
	You know, it's funny because, you know, this is sort of a male-female thing.
	I'm trying to sort of figure out which key might work in the lock, so to speak, in terms of solving problems.
	But, you know, have you tried looking at some international dating sites or something where...
	Because if you had a man to go to, it might feel that moving to a different country was less bad or less exhausting.
	I mean, at the beginning, I tried that, but I only got trolls.
	They're not serious.
	If it's overseas, usually it's not serious.
	What do you mean trolls?
	Like just people who want your bank account info?
	No, just trying to masturbate at the end of the day or get naked pictures.
	Or all through the day. Yeah, yeah.
	Okay. Yeah, so it doesn't work like that.
	The person has to be here in my city.
	Right. Now, I know you've got about a half hour before you've got to go.
	Is that right? Yes.
	Okay. So, listen.
	First of all, again, I just want to reiterate, like, I'm so incredibly sorry for the history that you've had.
	And also, listen, I'm full of significant admiration of what you've managed to pull yourself out of and where you've managed to get to.
	Thank you. And that is...
	Yes, I'm proud too.
	I'm proud of myself too.
	I didn't know I would be able to get this far.
	So I'm aware that we've got some time.
	I want to make sure that I focus on...
	I have a thought about what I want to focus on, but it's your convo, right?
	You're the client. You know how that goes, right?
	So you've got to do what the client wants.
	And I really want to make sure I sort of point my brain at what's most valuable to you.
	To me, I think the biggest barrier seems to be the exhaustion.
	Yeah. But is it?
	Because if there's something else you want me to focus on, I'm all yours.
	So maybe the exhaustion and when I see other...
	So my boyfriend has a daughter and he talks about his daughter sometimes and I just feel jealous and it reminds me of how unfortunate I was.
	Because I know your life is basically predetermined the moment you're born.
	I just didn't get the right card.
	Sorry, what now? What?
	Sorry, you want to back that statement?
	I think we hit something on the road and you're like, well, let's just keep driving.
	I'm like, no, no, no.
	What? Your life is predetermined when you're born?
	The moment you're born, yes.
	That's how I think it is.
	Why? Because of the family you're born into.
	It significantly affects your life.
	Okay, hang on, hang on.
	Significantly affects your life.
	Absolutely, I agree with you 100%.
	Exactly. Predetermined, like you're just a train on a track?
	No. We've got free will.
	I mean, that's my argument, right?
	We have free will, and with self-knowledge and with philosophy comes choices that we wouldn't have imagined before.
	Because if you feel like you're just a rock bouncing down a hill or a train on a set of train tracks...
	Then trying to will something in your life is going to be exhausting.
	But your childhood affects your adult life as well.
	So if one person is born in an abusive family versus one with a good family that sends them to school, there's going to be a gap.
	Like you can't reach out.
	Yes, but you don't know which way the gap is going to go.
	That's the challenge. So I was always going to end up on a more absolutist course.
	Now, I mean, I don't want to make this about me, so just real quickly, right?
	So, you know, I mean, born to basically a single mom, absent dad, grinding poverty, abuse, neglect, both parents in mental institutions.
	So how would you expect, I mean, if that's all you knew, how would you expect my life to play out if that's all you knew?
	Struggle. Well, you would assume that it would be pretty bad, right?
	I mean, in terms of optimal outcomes.
	Aha! But I have white privilege!
	No, I'm just kidding. So because of all of those disasters, it gave me a very strong desire to do the opposite.
	If you grow up with a mom who never exercises and eats all the time, and she's morbidly obese...
	You can sit there and say, well, I guess I have no choice.
	It's in my genetics. I'm going to get fat.
	Or you can say, man, I saw what happened when you don't exercise and eat all the time, so I'm not going to do that.
	You could end up super fit out of that environment, right?
	In fact, you could end up more fit.
	You could end up more fit than if you didn't have a fat mom.
	I guess so. I'm a better dad and a better person because of the shit I went through as a kid.
	Guaranteed. But you will still carry that emotional scar with you.
	What does it mean if it's made me a better person?
	Can you still call it a scar?
	It's like saying, well, I was fat as a kid, but then I worked out like crazy and I got lean, but I still carry that fat within me.
	Hmm. Well, I'm going to talk about me.
	Well, if I wasn't born in this abusive situation, I would have had a different life.
	I wouldn't be this exhausted and have to go into debt having to escort.
	I watch all my friends.
	They're born into regular families.
	They're way ahead of me now.
	So... Your life is pretty much based on what kind of family you're born into.
	Well, but it's not though, because you can see two people from the same family with very different outcomes.
	Very different outcomes, yes.
	Because maybe the exhaustion is, this is why I jumped, rightly or wrongly, this is why I jumped on that statement of yours.
	Because I wanted to talk about exhaustion and then you started talking about determinism.
	Right. Now, determinism does make people kind of exhausted, at least from what I've seen.
	Yes. Because if it's so hard to jump tracks, everything seems like an exhausting effort, right?
	Yes. So if you believe that who you are going to be is determined...
	And listen, I'm aware, fully aware that I'm talking partly out of my ass here.
	Like, with all due humility, you had it worse than me.
	You had it worse than me.
	So I'm saying this with all delicacy and sensitivity and aware that I'm talking half out of my ass here.
	But nonetheless, I'll make the case strenuously because I think that's the best thing.
	So if you say...
	I am my past.
	Then who you are can't change because your past can't change, right?
	You can't go back and be born in a better situation or not be molested or not be neglected or not be abused, right?
	Right. So if you say the scars, right?
	But we have living brains.
	We can rewire. We can change things enormously.
	We are not...
	If you have, like I've got a scar on my neck from a surgery, it's always going to be there.
	I mean, maybe I could get some crazy surgery or plastic surgery to get rid of it.
	I don't really care. But emotional scars, a scar is something that's always going to impede you, that's always going to be a kind of negative, right?
	Yes. But you can use, I mean, to take a silly example, right?
	Think of a diving board, right?
	So in a diving board...
	The height is the depression, right?
	So the further down you go, when you bounce on that diving board, the further down you go, the higher up you go.
	Yes. Because it's like a spring, right?
	Yes. So your childhood, look, if you become a mom, are you going to keep your child safe from molesters?
	Obviously. Right.
	So that's a massive improvement.
	And I bet you're Going to be better at spotting these monstrous creeps than somebody who'd never been abused.
	Yes, I'm very good at spotting them.
	I was always able to tell.
	So, what you went through, the horrors and exploitation that you went through, is a shield for your children to come.
	Now, that's not like a scar, right?
	A scar doesn't make the next generation more limber.
	A scar is just personal.
	A scar is just on you and all it does is limit you to some degree.
	But here, this is more like a springboard, right?
	Because you will have a greater desire and ability to protect your children because of what you went through.
	That's why I'm a better dad because of what I went through.
	It doesn't make it okay what you went through, obviously, and it doesn't make it something that you want to have or you can justify.
	It doesn't make any... But it's the best and greatest good you can get out of what you went through is to say, I know enough about evil, and it was straight up evil how you were raised.
	Straight up evil, like almost no breaks in the clouds as far as I can see.
	Yes. So you are incredibly well-schooled and evil.
	Now, that means you're going to be kind of super evil or super good.
	I hate to say it.
	It's sort of like if you take a giant...
	You ever see the Olympic divers, right?
	And they take these giant jumps and they go down and part of you is like, how come the board doesn't break?
	It's bent almost 90 degrees or whatever.
	It's like, how could that not break?
	But that's the way it is.
	You jump up so high with a bad childhood that you come down so hard.
	You either break and fall into evil or you spring into a virtue you could never have achieved otherwise.
	Right. But if you think it's, well, my life is determined by where I was born, which I have no control over, and this scar tissue, and I can't get over it, then everything is going to be kind of exhausting.
	But if you look at it as like a springboard, that you were so deeply exploited by genuine black-hearted evildoers, sorry to insult the word black, but you know what I mean, right?
	Like really ugly, evil people.
	Yes. That... This is a height that you can achieve that would have been impossible otherwise.
	And if you can get that momentum, you know, like that judo thing where you use the momentum of your opponent to win, if you can use the momentum of having survived evildoers, it can give you, I mean, I say this is coming up on 5,000 shows, it can give you an incredible amount of energy.
	Well, I guess that's why I was able to get to where I am now.
	And that's amazing. And again, no shortage of praise from me on all of that.
	But we're looking at the next thing.
	The next thing is you want to settle down, but you feel exhausted.
	And maybe your recoiling from the past has gotten you as far as you can.
	It's almost like you're walking in the woods and some bear jumps at you and you sprint for like a mile to get away from the bear.
	And then it's just like, man, I'm exhausted and I have no idea where to go.
	I've just been running away. I've just been escaping.
	I don't know where the hell to go from here.
	Right. It's true.
	And the exhaustion...
	I think it's two things.
	I think it is this...
	Because you're also forgiving in a sense...
	The evildoers who hurt you so much and ignored and neglected and abused and molested and exploited you as a child because you're saying, well, if you're just determined by who you're born into, family you're born into, then they were born into that family and that's why they are who they were and they were just like machines that were poking at me or whatever, right?
	But a lot of the pluses that come out of Being hurt as a child come out of a genuine and deep and just anger.
	Your mom could have done differently.
	Your dad could have done differently.
	Your stepdad could have done differently.
	His mistress slash business partner slash complete bitch from hell could have done differently.
	They all had choices.
	Now, you as a kid, no choice.
	I'm 100% on that.
	They could have done differently. They could have stepped up.
	They could have been responsible. You know, that son of a bitch who molested you as a kid, he could have gotten help.
	He could have gotten treatment. He could have, I don't know, cut his balls off with a rusty knife for all I care.
	Right? But they all could have done differently.
	Yeah. And they didn't.
	And they didn't. They're 100% responsible for that.
	They don't get the excuse of childhood as adults.
	Well, I guess they didn't care...
	I guess they didn't care because legally I'm not his daughter.
	Well, anybody who chooses to restrain themselves from evildoing because of legal technicalities is never going to restrain themselves from evildoing because that's not a thing, right?
	Right. I mean, you don't do that to children because children can't consent, because children are vulnerable, because children are dependent, because children have no voice, because it's evil.
	Yes. Now, so that's the one thing I would really, you know, challenge that kind of determinism that erupted in the last part of our conversation.
	The determinism that says, well, what's that line from that old Everlast song, right?
	Where you end is usually where you start.
	I don't believe that.
	I don't believe that. And you'd have no show to listen to if I did.
	Right. Right. I think you have enormous capabilities to...
	But anger is the key.
	Anger. And determinism robs us from the just anger that can help us really...
	Give us energy to change.
	I mean, do you think that the people...
	Let's talk about your stepdad.
	He's the most vivid guy for me.
	Okay. Was he an evil guy?
	Could he have done better? Did he have choices?
	Was he evil? Was he...
	It's normal.
	He was... Evil.
	But yes, he wasn't really a good person.
	He's a businessman, but not really.
	No, no, no. That's about as wishy-washy a statement as I've ever heard on this show.
	Was he evil? Wasn't a super great guy.
	Was business? No, no, no.
	Look, I'm not sort of trying to corner you into saying, yes, yes, he was evil.
	But I mean, to me, it's cut and dry.
	Yes, he abused and molested people.
	Sexually assaulted a helpless child.
	Yes. I mean, if that's not evil, there's no evil, right?
	That's about as evil as things can be, right?
	Yes. So I'm just saying for me, yeah, straight up evil.
	And there's almost no punishment that would be, you know, that would make me go, ooh, that's too far, right?
	Was he, to you, an evil guy?
	Yes. Okay.
	Now, you're not just saying that, I know, you know, No, no, no.
	Maybe you want to please him. No, no, no.
	Yes, I really wanted to get out of there.
	So, yes, he was.
	Now, your mother's job was to protect you.
	Now, your stepfather's too, right?
	But your mother's job was to protect you and your father's job was to protect you, right?
	Yes. So, your mother could say, well, you know, I left you back there because, hey, much better life and so on.
	Yes. But she's got a bloody responsibility to check on that, right?
	She's got a responsibility to call you up and say, how are things going?
	Tell me everything that's happening.
	Are you safe? Are you secure?
	Are you happy? She's got a duty, care, and responsibility because she chose to have a child.
	Did she do any of that?
	No, she didn't care about me either, to be honest.
	That's evil too. To abandon a child to a pedophile, if that's the right phrase, to abandon a child to a pedophile, And to never circle back to checkup.
	Is that evil? Yes.
	I think so. Yep.
	The mistress slash business partner.
	Yes. Whenever you would say mistress slash, I think that the next story was going to be about a shiv or a knifing or something.
	The mistress slashed me with a knife.
	Okay, mistress slash business partner.
	Yes. She participated in dumping you uneducated out on the streets, right?
	Yep. I was surprised with that.
	I thought she would help.
	But she listens to everything he says.
	If he says jump, then she jumps.
	Don't care. Don't care.
	Is she 100% responsible for her actions and choices?
	Yes. Was she evil?
	That night she was, yes.
	When I came back home. Well, it's not just that night.
	Yeah. It's not just that night because there's the question of conscience that circles afterwards, right?
	So that night, she's like, get out into the streets, right?
	Yes. But the next day, the next week, the next month, she could have done something to try and find you, to try and say, oh my God, I'm so sorry.
	I was drunk. I was under the influence of this terrible guy.
	I can't believe what I did.
	Something to rescue you, right?
	No, she didn't do that.
	So it's not just a one-night thing.
	Right. She ever apologized ever since?
	She could contact you pretty easily, right?
	Right, right. She has my contact.
	Right. So the evil has gone on 20-odd years, right?
	Yep. It's not one night.
	Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
	I don't agree or like the fact that there are men who will have sex with you but would never commit to you.
	Who are paying you for sex.
	You know, I don't think that's a good thing.
	I don't think that's a healthy thing.
	I get money, desperation, blah, blah, blah.
	So I just want to be clear about that.
	I mean, it's not like you have to make any big decisions based upon me putting a pouty face on about this stuff, but I think it's destructive.
	I think it's harmful to you.
	I think it's harmful to your capacity to bond in a healthy sexual manner or in a romantic manner.
	That's true. And it's hard not to feel used if it's like, well, you're good enough to have sex with, but I wouldn't want to be seen in public with you.
	That's kind of humiliating, right?
	It is. I hate doing it, but I need the money.
	Do you not think that if this was impossible for whatever reason, that there'd be no other way to get the money or to find a way?
	Hmm... Maybe I could work at a factory.
	And I say this because, I mean, I've never had that option, at least when I was younger and broke.
	It was never like, well, I'll go swing my purse at a street lamp.
	I know it's not what you do, but you know what I mean, right?
	Nobody was going to pay me a bunch of money to go on a date or to watch me shake my spotty ass, right?
	So... I just wonder, for women for whom that is not available, do they find another way?
	Like, you're a very attractive woman, I can see this through the photo and all of that, and a very appealing personality and so on.
	So for women, or for men, for that matter, who don't have this option, they don't just die in the streets, don't they find some way?
	I suppose. I suppose, yeah, I could work in a factory.
	I don't have a degree, so maybe a I could only get a factory work or a convenience store work.
	But those jobs usually don't really pay much.
	Kind of living on the edge.
	Listen, you know that there's a price for everything, right?
	Nothing comes for free. So you can say, well, there's more money.
	But the reason there's more money is that the cost is elsewhere.
	That's why you get paid more.
	The cost is elsewhere.
	And the cost is going to be maybe having to lie to your future husband.
	The cost is going to be maybe having trouble with sexual or romantic or love bonding with a future husband.
	So you can say, oh, but this is extra money.
	But you've got to always look, I think, at the cost as well.
	What's the hidden cost?
	Behind the extra money. It's sort of like, well, I'm a professor.
	Look at this. I get three months off in the summer and I get $175,000 a year and I have to work 15 hours a week.
	It's like, yeah, but that comes at a very heavy price of conformity and silence.
	So I'm just, you know, the plus column is easy, right?
	You said, what was it? A couple of grand a month or more, right?
	So the plus column is easy, but, you know, keep an eye on that minus column, right?
	I know. It's just that I need the money to go to school and stuff like that.
	How am I going to do that without the money?
	Well, again, if you need the money to go to school, that's in Japan.
	Maybe you do need more credentials, but in the entrepreneurial field elsewhere, credentials are less important.
	As a foreigner, will I be able to get a Proper job?
	I mean, if I go to the States, I'll be a foreigner.
	Again, I can't sort of answer that.
	But maybe there's things that you could do to work remotely.
	Maybe there's translation services.
	Maybe there's people who need entree to something to do with Japan.
	They need knowledge of the culture or the business environment or they need advisors or something like that.
	And they're not going to care about degrees in that.
	They just care that you have the knowledge and can That would be nice to do.
	Because you have an income source, which is the escort stuff, you're not looking for that other stuff.
	That's just my annoying trying to look out for your future soul kind of thing.
	There is a cost to this that is pretty deep.
	To be frank, one of the costs is If you are looking, I don't know the odds, but if you're looking for a guy who's pretty wealthy, that a guy who's pretty wealthy, he has a lot of choices, right?
	He has a lot of options. Yes.
	Will he choose a woman, and again, you can say, well, he won't know or whatever, and I get that, right?
	But will he choose a woman who was an escort?
	If he knew, right? Well, I think he would rather choose a woman who wasn't an escort in the past if he has all these choices, right?
	Right. All right.
	Now then, if you have to take a significant portion of your life and hide it as a shameful secret, that has a cost as well.
	Now, in Japan, maybe it's some weird way that it works.
	It's something I don't really fully understand.
	Seems a little demonic to me, but, you know, I don't know much about the Japanese culture.
	I mean, I didn't even know that the 60% estimate, which, again, is pretty wild.
	But elsewhere, I think X escort...
	Yes. Can be kind of a deal breaker.
	And that's another thing that you may end up saying, well, I have more money now, but I have to accept a husband who makes less money down the road.
	And you may end up losing more money than you gain in the long run because the effects, whether you say it or not, the effects are probably still there to some degree, right?
	Right. You're going to dissociate in romantic or sexual situations, I would assume, not just because of what the terrible things that happened to you as a child, but the escorting as well.
	There has to be a certain blanking out or what they call dissociation.
	You're just kind of out of body or just kind of zoning out, not really being there.
	Right. And that's a skill that would have unfortunately happened when you were being molested as a girl.
	And that gives you the ability to get through the escort stuff, which you say you hate.
	But... It's going to have trouble, I think, in your life when you want to have that joyful, romantic intimacy with a husband or a boyfriend.
	You've trained yourself kind of in the wrong direction, if that makes sense?
	Yes. So, yeah, that's just my, I don't know, slightly cautionary tale of looking at the minus column rather than just the plus column because...
	I mean, I don't...
	I know it's not a good thing to do.
	It's just... I know the consequences.
	It's just that I choose to better my life first.
	Well, hey, we're back to choice, so I'm ambivalent.
	I'm happy that you're back to choice and free will.
	What you're choosing, a different manner.
	Now, listen, again, I know you've got to go shortly, but let me just ask you this.
	Have you looked into, you know, I'm constantly nagging people and reminding people of just how great talk therapy is?
	Yes. Is this something that you have looked into or something that you've thought of?
	Japan doesn't really have therapy, but there's some that was available.
	And I did call like a week ago.
	I don't know. I just don't believe in therapy.
	I mean, I just sat on the phone talking about nothing.
	They just listened.
	And I just can't also get myself to tell someone, some stranger on the phone, that I was molested and something like that.
	It just doesn't work for me.
	I feel like it's a waste of time too.
	Yeah, like an in-person thing might be better?
	Not even in person.
	I just feel like it's a waste of time to talk about it.
	What's the point? If I'm not getting any advice.
	Well, yeah, if they're just, you know, that really blank Freudian, uh-huh, tell me more, uh-huh, tell me more.
	I don't know that that's particularly helpful.
	That's just like throwing money down a well.
	It's like, okay, well, money's gone and I got nothing back.
	Listen, I know money's tight and all that.
	If you do find a good therapist, I absolutely would be happy to fund the therapy.
	If you found someone good that was really helping and money was tight and I wouldn't mind you doing anything dangerous or harmful to your soul.
	If you find a good therapist, just drop me a line.
	I'm happy to give you some money for therapy.
	Just keep me posted about that.
	If you can find a good therapist, I think it can do wonders.
	I think it can be great. But yeah, if you haven't found the right one, I mean, I went through one or two before I found a good one and it was kind of brutal.
	Well, I guess I could try again.
	I'll try again. Maybe, I mean, if it's phone, phone, right?
	Make you find somebody outside of East Asian culture or whatever it could be.
	Yeah. Yeah.
	Okay, listen, again, I know time's tight.
	Yes. Is there anything that you wanted to mention or anything that we haven't touched on or how's the conversation been for you as a whole?
	So, yes, I wanted to ask you, like, how do I let go of this feeling?
	like my childhood memories it feels like a burden to me and I get sad sometimes for no reason because I see other people with easier lives and I just get envious and jealous and angry and I don't want to be like that so I was just wondering how can I let go of this or bury it I'm trying to bury it but then it doesn't.
	Yeah burying does not work right Burying it doesn't work. It doesn't.
	So listen, there's nothing wrong with being envious or jealous or angry.
	Envy, you know, like, you know, if you go see the new Top Gun movie, yeah, every guy comes home and does 50 sit-ups, right?
	Because those guys look fantastic.
	Now, again, they've been working at it for months and guys in the army don't look like that.
	But so envy is fine.
	You know, if you see someone who has something that you want, that could be a motivation for you to get there.
	If you envy people who came from happier families, that could be a motivation for you to create a happier family in the future.
	So to me, just accept the emotions, open up to the emotions, and love.
	Even the most inconvenient emotions have something.
	And sometimes the most inconvenient emotions have the most to teach you, the most to tell you.
	you were unbelievably cornered, exploited, and abused by just about the most evil people around.
	And I'm, again, I know I've said it before, I'll say it again.
	I'm so incredibly sorry for that.
	That's monstrous, actually monstrous, what happened to you.
	And it happens to all too many women and all too many men.
	So I say accept that you were most cruelly violated and that the people who did it to you are stone evil people, as far as I can tell.
	Yes. Let yourself get angry, let yourself, you know, pound pillows, let yourself, you know, scream into pillows if you have to.
	But to get out of that circular track, the feelings that you had as a child are there to prevent you from having the same situation occur as an adult.
	So I think part of the lack of anger or the suppression of your feelings...
	About sexual exploitation may have led you to be more comfortable with being an escort because it is a similar kind of exploitation.
	Again, I know money is involved, so I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but the tragic skills that you developed as a victim of childhood sexual abuse are probably...
	Feeding into what's happening in the escort scene.
	So the feelings that you had of being violated, of being angry, of being neglected and abandoned as a child, if you get in touch with those feelings, they will work very hard to protect you in the here and now.
	But the more you suppress those feelings, the more it's easier to get exploited in the present, if that makes any sense.
	Yes, it does.
	And I would like to see you get out of this stuff.
	stuff i would like to see you get out of this exploitation and or being used right because look this is the thing these guys are paying you but they're just using you for your body yes and very unpleasant you know the your stepfather was also just using you for your body yes so there is a continuity between the two and um again i get morally it's not exactly the same and but i'm just emotionally
	your feelings are not yet protecting you from exploitation particularly sexual exploitation or exploitation of your body.
	And I think if you accept and get in touch with and listen and absorb more feelings of what happened to you as a child, the anger and frustration and helplessness that you felt, then those, you know, think of your immune system, right? So the immune system is you had a bug.
	And your immune system had to grow the T cells or whatever the hell happens, had to grow the cells to fight the bug.
	But then the next time you see that bug, they're like, boom, got it, right?
	You only get the same cold once, right?
	Because it's the next time you know, right?
	Right. So the experience, the emotions are the immune system, right?
	So if you experience the horrors that happened to you as a child, Yes.
	And I would strongly suggest get a good therapist because it's going to be some strong stuff.
	I mean, it absolutely is because you were unbelievably cruelly treated as a child.
	So if you get in touch with those feelings, those feelings, when liberated within you, will identify quickly exploiters in the here and now and keep you clear.
	Whereas if you get married or, you know, are you safe from a potential exploiter?
	Well, If you haven't gone through or integrated the feelings you had as a child, they're not available to help protect you in the present.
	And then it's like a new virus every single time.
	You don't have the immunity to deal with it, if that makes sense.
	Yes, I understand what you mean.
	This can be journaling. This can be books.
	As I said before, John Gray has some good ones.
	Nathaniel Brandon has some good workbooks.
	So this could be stuff that you work on.
	But, I mean, again, I'm a big fan of the talk therapy.
	If you can write the right one and let me know if I can help fund it.
	But that is, I think, the important thing.
	Because I would sure hate you to...
	You know, some guy is going to come along.
	He's going to be like, oh, you're the best thing since sliced bread.
	So I'm going to set you up with an apartment.
	I'm going to pay you two grand a month.
	And then... You're going to get used in that kind of way.
	You say, oh yes, but I'm using him for money.
	And it's like, yeah, but money doesn't have the same intimacy as sexual acts, obviously, right?
	Yes. And so then you're going to get set up and you're going to drift past your fertility window and you're going to age out of escorting and you're going to age out of the marriage market.
	And then like that to me would be really tragic because then you're right back where you started.
	Exactly. I'm afraid of that too.
	I'm afraid of that happening too.
	And I think there's a real chance.
	And I think that the way you jump those tracks is to work with your childhood feelings and to kick off the determinism to recognize the evils and let your anger be your immune system.
	Let the fear, the helplessness, all of that, let that work through you and it will keep you safe.
	Then you'll see predators from miles away rather than having them jump out from grass two feet to your right.
	Right. Yes, I can usually spot.
	Yes, but not necessarily the cost, right?
	I mean, you can spot these creeps, in a sense, because they'll give you money for sexual access, but you're not that good at spotting the cost, I would argue.
	I mean, that would be my guess, right?
	I guess so.
	I mean, I understand it's not good for me, but there's always a sacrifice, so...
	It's a sacrifice. But some sacrifices are less costly than others.
	That's true. You know, saying, you know, I've got a cut on my finger.
	Well, I could just saw the whole finger off and then I don't have a cut on my finger anymore.
	It's like, yeah, but there's better things to do.
	You know, all sacrifices are equal.
	Right. Now, do you have to go?
	I know we've got a hard stop here because you've got somewhere to go.
	I have to go to school.
	Yes. Well, listen, I hugely, again, massive sympathies.
	I hugely appreciate the conversation.
	It was a really, I mean, great conversation for me.
	I hope it was helpful for you. And will you keep me posted about how things are going?
	Yes, yes. Thank you.
	And please, please let me know if there's anywhere that I can help out, if you can find a good therapist.
	I'm really, really happy to help, and I wish you the very best.
	And again, massive sympathies for where you started, but man, have you ever come a long way, and that's something to be truly, truly proud of.
	Yes. Thank you very much.
	I really appreciate it.
	Take care. Keep me posted. Okay.

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