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Dec. 12, 2020 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

03:04:17

ALCOHOL IS KILLING ME! Emergency Freedomain Call In

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	Okay, hi everybody. This is Stefan Molyneux, and we're doing a bit of a show outside of the regular old schedule.
	I guess we could say, probably fair to say, that we have a listener in crisis.
	And I don't normally do crisis stuff, but this listener, I had to trust my gut and say, it's worth having the conversation.
	I mean, it always would be worth having the conversation, but I'm not a crisis guy.
	I'm a sort of long-term, lay-the-seeds-in, philosophical preparation kind of guy.
	But anyway, for better or for worse, I think it'll be for better.
	I decided to make an exception tonight, this night, the 10th of December 2020.
	So without any further ado, let's bring...
	James, you wanted to sort of talk a little bit about the backstory of how this came about?
	So the listener writes, Stephbot, I feel like a lifeless husk.
	My depression is hitting levels that I would consider peak.
	The constant thought of abandoning everything or even killing myself is taking the front of my thoughts like it has for years and years before, but this time I have a one-year-old son.
	No progress in my life has ever slowed this feeling down.
	Rather, provided temporary relief.
	I make good money. I have been with my wife for ten years.
	I can afford to keep her home with my one-year-old son and I am valued at work.
	All signs point to a wonderful life, but inside I burn alive in rage, self-hatred, and self-doubt.
	I tried therapy this year with two different people and I found them useless, to the point of evoking rage in me.
	I'm afraid the only thing holding me together most of the time is my work and right now it's bad.
	Just to be clear, I am an alcoholic.
	When work is bad, I drink.
	When my wife is gone, I drink.
	When I take care of my son all day and I don't have the boobs he wants, I drink.
	When I say I drink, I mean I drink one liter of wine, or a hundred ounce of light beer, or three quarters of a fifth of vodka, or a combination of all of it.
	I have the bloodline of high-functioning alcoholics, and it's a terrible curse.
	I can't count the amount of hungover days at work or the drunk fights with my wife.
	I can't count the missing memories because it's my whole adult life at this point.
	I'm spending so much time and energy managing my emotions by ignoring them instead of dealing with the cause that every moment of being sober without something pressing to do is suffering.
	So my question is, how do I stop self-destructive behavior so my son can learn what a healthy, happy father and man looks like and so I can live to see my grandkids?
	Right, right. So that, of course, is, I think, pretty much the definition of a listener in crisis.
	So I'm sorry that the therapy didn't work for you.
	We'll sort of talk a little bit about that.
	What name would you like me to call you over the course of the convo?
	Oh, call me Kevin, I guess.
	All right, Kevin, I guess.
	Oh, look at that. From one father to another, a dad joke to start the entire conversation.
	Yeah. So does anyone at work know that you drink too much?
	Only my most recent boss because he's my age and kind of has similar issues.
	He has a kid the same age and everything, you know, stress levels at work.
	We talk about that and how we drink to solve it.
	Right. Now, I guess if you could give me the history of the addiction, I think that would be most helpful.
	When did it start and did you have addictive behaviors before you started drinking and what the progression of the ailment has been?
	My addictive behaviors, I'd probably say, started when I was younger with caffeine.
	It might sound silly, but I used to way overconsume it to the point of being extremely hyper and rambunctious.
	I have decided not to call you out on overconsumption of caffeine for reasons that you probably know about with regards to my own relationship to caffeine.
	For that one, you get a guilty pass from me.
	But anyway, so that's, was it like sodas when you were a kid?
	That's what you, so you got your caffeine?
	Yeah, and energy drinks, like as early as like 12.
	I was pounding those things.
	Right, okay. It made me, of course, feel really good and alert and awake and happy about stuff.
	But as you imagine, the effects of that, you know, wear down over time.
	So about...
	That hasn't necessarily slowed down.
	I still overconsume probably like you do, you know, 300 milligrams or so of caffeine each day.
	But I was about 19 when I first tried alcohol.
	And ever since then, I've had a relationship with it that is less than healthy.
	I didn't really start binge drinking or over drinking or drinking by myself until I was probably around 23.
	And then at the, like, you know, I'd started off with just having parties where I'd invite We'd play board games, watch YouTube videos and everything, and then it escalated further into weekends that Sorry, I should not be reading the Discord chat.
	I'm so sorry. Yeah, there's a little bit of crackling on your mic.
	I'm not sure what... I've not heard that before.
	Are you using like Bluetooth or an external mic or something like that?
	Oh, I apologize. I don't know why it's sounding bad all of a sudden.
	Oh, sounds fine now. Look at that.
	All we had to do was nag it. All I had to do was touch it.
	Okay. It's not too bad, so I won't bother you about it again.
	But no, you're doing fine.
	And listen, this is a hell of a conversation to have, especially remotely, video.
	It's a hell of a conversation to have.
	And try not to be self-conscious about how you're doing.
	You're doing fine. I guarantee you that you're doing fine.
	And if anything does go awry, you know, you can trust me at least to voice my concerns, if not necessarily be right about it, but you're doing fine.
	We just, you know, just talk dad to dad, man to man, human to human, and see if we can sort this out.
	Okay, so it was around 23 that it really began to kick in.
	And before that, you were kind of like a social drinker?
	Yeah, yeah. And at the same time, that's also when I started my career path.
	I joined a local union apprenticeship program.
	And I have a really bad relationship with school and authority in general.
	So doing that was quite frustrating.
	Oh, because you've got to be coached, you've got to be taught, you've got to like the whole thing, right?
	Right. And you've got to submit to authority.
	Yeah. You're completely subjected to what other people want and their bureaucracy.
	And I had a really bad relationship with the training center, the hall, the union hall.
	We had a crazy authoritarian lady there who was so crazy.
	She was snowing one morning.
	She told us to be there at 6 a.m.
	and it's freezing cold outside.
	And she's like, I want you guys to all change your tires on your car so you're never late for work.
	And just a bunch of stuff like that.
	I'm like, this is absolutely ridiculous.
	We're all a bunch of tradesmen.
	We should be learning technical stuff.
	Anyway, so I don't know if that was the source of my stress, but after that, it escalated into probably 2015 or 14, somewhere in there. I became a daily drinker.
	You know, started off with a couple beers.
	You know, we went to a restaurant every Monday and met for drinks.
	And, you know, I would drink to the point of getting drunk.
	And then it just became an everyday thing.
	Were you alone in that, in the union circle?
	Yes. Oh, no.
	My father... Union guys drink, man.
	I mean, that's sort of my experience.
	Yeah, yeah. Yeah, going to class drunk is a normal occurrence for most of us.
	Also, that includes getting there and getting home.
	Right. So, I mean, you were in an environment where there wasn't like the shocked faces of like, my gosh, are you actually having a third beer?
	But it was all like, yeah, pounder, man.
	Yeah, like you'd find the instructors at the bars near the training center before class.
	We had a particular instructor who I'd swear he was never sober.
	Right. Yeah, it's truly amazing just how many essential things in civilization get built by complete drunkards.
	It's not just Scottish writers or Irish writers.
	You know, the house that you live in, the construction, like the bridge that you drive over, who knows, right?
	I mean, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't get put together sober, and I don't think enough people realize what a sea of alcohol it is in the trades to get things done.
	Yeah, and I'm no exception to that.
	I think you'd be employee of the month as far as all that goes, as far as I sort of understand it, right?
	Right. And I don't really know what was the single cause that increased the drinking.
	I just know I felt a lot of stress in general.
	Well, and I mean, one of the things that sucks people down into drinking, I mean, obviously, listen, As always, please, please, please don't look upon me as any kind of authority.
	I mean, I know you're listening to the show and all that.
	No authority here. We're exploring.
	We're just trying to figure this thing out.
	So we're just two people sit together over non-alcoholic beers just trying to figure something out here.
	But my experience from what I've seen is that...
	One of the reasons people slide in to drink is they find their social circle boring if they're sober.
	There's just not that much to do with people who are sober.
	I mean, the only time I ever really flirted with drinking too much was, I don't know, maybe a couple of weeks, maybe a month when I was about maybe 17.
	And I had a friend, appropriately named Rob, because you're trying to steal sobriety from me, right?
	And Rob and I, maybe a couple other people, we'd get together and we'd get these beers called Brock, which were like, I don't know, 8% alcohol or something like that.
	And we'd drink.
	And we'd play cards for quarters.
	We'd play poker. We'd sit around.
	We'd drink, right? Right.
	And, you know, gosh, I mean, he was hardcore, man.
	Like, he was – you could see this guy, like, just drinker.
	It was all over the place, right?
	Now, I kind of dipped into it, and for me – and I don't mean to make this about me.
	I just sort of wanted to say what the thesis is, right?
	But for me, it was like, okay, so I did kind of have fun.
	Like, drinking is fun. Like, people aren't stupid.
	Who drink? You know, it's not like, why would you punish yourself like that?
	Like, drinking can be a lot of fun.
	It's a disinhibitor. You get pretty giggly.
	You can tell great stories.
	And, you know, a lot of what people do is funny.
	And, you know, drinking is kind of fun.
	And... But the problem is, of course, that, I mean, this guy...
	After a couple of weeks of this, I'm like, man, this is no good.
	This is... It's expensive.
	I didn't have a lot of money, right?
	It's expensive. And it wipes out your sundae, right?
	I mean, now you, if you've been drinking a lot, I mean, it's all wiped out in a way because you're a high-functioning alcoholic, but...
	For me, it was like, you know, you'd kind of wake up at noon on Sunday like somebody had just scooped hamster shit into your mouth and then just kind of bump around like a lazy pinball all day because you didn't have any energy, kind of vaguely headachy, didn't really want to eat anything, just, you know, just didn't sleep well.
	So it just kind of wiped out the Sunday.
	And, you know, usually Monday you'd sort of feel back to your regular self and all that.
	And I'm like, okay, so... It's really expensive.
	It's fun while it happens, but it wipes out that evening and it kind of wipes out the next day.
	I just, and I, you know, I hate the spins, you know, like that thing where, what's that old Dean Martin joke?
	Like, you're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on.
	But I really, really hated the spins, you know, where you lie down, you're just like, I'm so tired, and the bed is just spinning and spinning and spinning.
	And you just, it's like, it's a pretty miserable thing at the end of it all.
	And so for me, it was just like, okay, this is just, and so I'd say, you know, this guy would be like, hey, let's get together, man, this Saturday night.
	Like, okay, great, you know.
	I just tell you this, man.
	I, you know, I'm not chipping in for drinks.
	You know, like, you know, I'll bring a couple of bucks if you want me to have, I'm not, I'll bring some pop or whatever.
	Like, I'm just not chipping in for drinks.
	And then it was like this great offense.
	I mean, you know, everybody knows this.
	Oh, what are you talking about, man?
	You're so much fun. Like, you know, come on, loosen up.
	It's always loosen up. Oh, like, live a little, you know, loosen up.
	Don't be so uptight and so on, right?
	It's like, I'm not uptight.
	I have boundaries.
	I don't want to drink this much.
	It's not good for my health. It's not good for my wallet.
	It's not good for my life.
	And it was very much like, okay, so if I wanted to get together with Rob, we just fucking had to drink.
	And he was a cool guy.
	He was a cool, good-looking guy, cool guy, and...
	But it was like, okay, but if I have to be drinking with you, then I'm really just an excuse to drink.
	Like you just, I don't want to drink alone, man.
	It's like those social smokers.
	Hey, I'm a social smoker! And they come up to you and say, hey, can I buy my cigarette?
	I'm just a social smoker. It's like, did you approach me to buy my cigarette?
	Then you're not a social smoker, right?
	You're a smoker. You just pretend you're a social smoker because you don't like to say that you're a smoker.
	And it's, you know, it was just kind of an offensive thing to say, well, you don't want me for my company.
	You know, like you don't want to hang out with me when sober.
	So anyway, I tried going over when Rob had one of his parties.
	And, you know, man, if you're not drinking, it's a bad time.
	I mean, it's a seriously boring, annoying, bad time.
	And you can see people just losing their reason, losing their higher faculties and all of that.
	So, you know, my guess is that one of the reasons the drinking started to happen was you're in this world.
	If you don't drink, you're a suspect, and if you don't drink, it's really not that much fun, and you don't want to be lonely.
	I don't know if that was it, but it could have something to do with it.
	At least for me, that wasn't the case.
	I was one of the first ones to really – I've always been like the center of the party.
	So when things start happening, I'm the one drinking first and getting people riled up.
	Oh, you're the Rob, not the me in this equation.
	Okay, got it. I'm the one who hosted the parties.
	I'm the one who had the table full of liquor.
	I mean I had a Jaeger tap machine that held three bottles of liquor.
	I would refrigerate it.
	So, yeah.
	You had the equipment, man.
	You were like committed. Oh, I got dance lights.
	I had everything in my early 20s.
	Like laser shows, fog machines.
	You were like the Laser Floyd guy, except it wasn't pot, right?
	Right. Wow. Wow.
	So, you're like a spider spinning a web.
	You know? A web of alcoholism.
	Come on in, people. It's going to be great.
	Okay, okay. Yeah.
	Okay. Except now I'm caught in one oil.
	Okay, so, and I do want to get to the origin story of all of this, but I kind of want to understand the stuff that was going on at that time in your life.
	And what's your age range now?
	I'm 30. You're 30, okay.
	And so in your sort of mid-20s, I said 23 plus, when you really started to drink hardcore alcohol, So there would be some obvious secondary gains, right?
	So some secondary gains, you know, I know a lot of people in Japan drink because that's kind of the culture, or at least it was, and it gets you ahead in your career.
	Some guys drink because it allows them to approach women in a much more confident way.
	And of course, if the women have had something to drink too, then maybe they're more receptive to sexual or romantic advances.
	It could be a lot of different things.
	What do you think was driving that for you?
	I've been with my wife for almost 11 years, so it wasn't women.
	For me, it's the enhanced feelings, the good feelings that come with it.
	I don't know.
	It's like everything's better and more enhanced.
	The world's brighter for me.
	One of the things people say when they drink is they get tired.
	When I drink, I get energized.
	I can stay up all night if I'm drinking.
	But as soon as I stop drinking, I just crash, boom, done, fall asleep.
	So for me, it's like I can be there in the moment and enjoy just what's in front of me versus when I'm not sober, I'm thinking of the future and everything.
	Oh, absolutely. Listen, everyone has this, you know, the beer commercial of like the impossibly well-abbed guys in the Bermuda shorts by the pool.
	Everybody kind of wants to climb into that ad and have a blast, right?
	Every song that plays on the radio is perfect and everybody's funny and, you know, the people who jump off the roof never hit the side of the pool, you know, that kind of stuff, right?
	So I get that. Now, let me ask you this, though.
	So when it comes to like the world is brighter and you're happier and so on, Given the, I think, fairly catastrophic depression that you're facing at the moment, was it bright relative to normal?
	Or was it bright relative, just relative to, you know, like if you think of sort of minus 10, greatest sadness, plus 10, greatest happiness.
	When you say like you were happy when you were drinking, was it a plus 10?
	Or was it just not a minus 10?
	And it was like a one, but it just felt like 11 better.
	Yeah, it's more like that.
	Like, I'm more in a constant state of depression, essentially.
	And by drinking, I can elevate myself to what I assume would be a normal level of happiness or enjoyment of things, based on how I see other people enjoying things.
	Right, right.
	So it is self-medication for depression.
	Is that a fair way to put it?
	No, I think so, yes.
	Right, okay.
	I'm sort of relieved in a way because that's the general thesis I've been working with ever since I did.
	And people can check this out, bombinthebrain.com, bombinthebrain.com, where you can look at a whole series of five or six analyses, presentations, interviews, and conclusions about I'll do it in like 30 seconds, right? So when you experience a lot of child abuse or trauma, upset as a child, you end up with negative happiness, obviously.
	And you don't become addicted to feel happy.
	You become addicted to feel normal.
	In other words, if you have child abuse, you end up as a minus seven for your happiness.
	You're not trying to get to plus 10, you know, sort of a minus 10 to plus 10 scale.
	You're not trying to get to plus 10.
	You're trying to get to zero or one.
	Now, the problem is because you're short of dopamine or whatever it is that's missing because of your trauma, then your body's not producing enough due to trauma.
	And then what happens is you take whatever drug enhances that.
	It could be alcohol. It could be cocaine.
	It could be gambling. It could whatever it is, right?
	Sexuality. And then you get to feel normal.
	But then the problem is that you crash down to minus eight for minus seven.
	Because whenever you bring an artificial substance in that produces, let's just call it happy hormone, right?
	Whatever it is, right?
	When you bring in an artificial substance that produces the happy hormone in you, your body stops producing it on its own, right?
	Kind of makes sense, right? And so then what happens is You go from a minus seven to a plus one and you feel normal or slightly better than normal.
	And then you crash to a minus eight or minus nine from a seven.
	Now, most people, if they're like a zero being sort of equilibrium, like we get unhappiness, we get happiness.
	They go from zero and they go from zero to like six or seven or maybe 20 or sorry, maybe 10 or whatever, but they go, they go high and then they crash down to a minus one or minus two and then they kind of stabilize, right?
	But if you're starting at a minus 7, you take a drug and you get to a 0 or a 1 and then you crash down to a minus 8, it's really appalling.
	It's really shocking because you've had a taste of what it is to be normal.
	Like if you've ever had chronic pain, a back thing or whatever, some knee thing, if you've ever had chronic pain and then you take a drug that takes that pain away, You realize what life is like without chronic pain, and then when the chronic pain returns, it's worse because you've had a time without it.
	So, again, I'm not trying to tell you your experience.
	That's the general theory that I understand with regards to addiction.
	And remember, I'm no doctor, I'm no expert, I'm no medical guy of any kind.
	I'm just telling you my understanding of the process.
	And how well does that mesh with what you've experienced?
	Yeah, I'd say that that's the case, at least based on observing other people and then having, you know, non-drug related interactions with things, you know, achieving goals or, you know, having a really good day about something.
	You get that same hit that brings you up and makes you feel almost normal.
	So I agree with that.
	Right. Okay.
	Yeah, go ahead. And from my emotional history, you know, I have a hard time remembering stuff from like before five.
	But, you know, there's a lot of stuff going back there.
	But I do remember a point in my life where, you know, I felt generally happy about things.
	And then a change from that to not being generally happy.
	So I do know it exists.
	I do know there's this happy state that you can be in normally.
	Right. Right.
	Because some people who...
	Sort of hover around at the happiness level.
	It's like, you know, minus six, minus seven.
	That's their baseline. What they say is life is suffering.
	Life is pain. I'm a nihilist.
	I'm an existentialist.
	So like life is suffering. Life is pain.
	And everybody who seems happy is an idiot.
	They're just fooling themselves.
	They're just shiny, happy people holding hands like that old REM song, right?
	They're just plastic people.
	They don't have any depth, they don't have any intelligence, and they make a virtue out of their suffering.
	And that's, of course, normalizing minus seven happiness as wisdom and depth and all of that kind of stuff, like the David Lynch world stuff.
	And rather than just saying, wow, you know, I'm really dysfunctional.
	I need to try and find a way at least to get higher up in the baseline happiness scale.
	They instead make a virtue and a depth out of it.
	And that kind of seals the submarine door over top of them as they head down.
	Yeah, and I'd say that's where I was for a long time, deep into the nihilism.
	Okay, so tell me a little bit about the metaphysical level, or you could say the existential level.
	What did you end up thinking or believing about the human condition based upon what happened to you with alcohol?
	And I think that's a good question.
	At least, most of the time I just think from my own perspective.
	So, you know, I agree with, I agreed with that life is suffering and that the only way to achieve anything or to, you know, build any kind of happiness is always work towards these future goals, but just live in the misery of the now.
	At least as a man, I always believed that my job was self-sacrifice and destroying myself for whatever goals I wanted to achieve or building family or stuff like that.
	I just generally ignored my emotions because of that.
	I just was like, these are useless in the moment.
	These are pointless. I just need to separate myself from them.
	Now, that must have also given you quite a magnetic amount of charisma.
	Yes. Now, people don't usually understand that, and I'll have you sort of break this one out.
	I don't want to do all the talking here. It's your issues, right?
	So, people don't understand how much nihilism and charisma are related, but tell me a little bit about what you're getting out of this sort of magnetic charisma idea.
	Well, I mean, my career, I'm a service tech right now.
	So I'm very good at customer service.
	I'm very good at talking to people.
	I'm good at reading their emotions and essentially what they're saying and what they want and become the thing that they want in the moment.
	So like hosting parties and stuff, I know exactly how to get people happy about things.
	I don't know how to describe it.
	Well, you become a conduit of energy for people, right?
	Right, yeah. Yeah, I'm a beacon of energy.
	Yeah, you really are a beacon of energy and people are drawn to that.
	And that comes out of a lack of identity for yourself.
	In other words, you become a reflective chameleon that enhances everybody's experience of life, like a funhouse mirror that magnifies everything that's kind of cool, right?
	Like you see little kids, little girls who sometimes go to those funhouse mirrors and then It puts boobs on them because of the curve of the mirror, and they're laughing.
	It just enhances something that they're obviously thinking about in terms of how they're going to grow into the future and all of that.
	There's a lot of charisma, an enormous amount of charisma that comes out of a lack of identity and a real thirst to...
	It's because it's more than being liked because, you know, everybody wants to be liked, but yeah, we can do that by being ourselves.
	But it's almost like you are addicted to a drug yourself, but you are the drug for other people.
	They want to come because they want to be around you because of how you make them feel, right?
	Absolutely, yes.
	There's an old F. Scott Fitzgerald novel.
	I've always remembered this scene.
	It's called Tender is the Night.
	And in it, he was a notorious party guy.
	Zelda Fitzgerald, I kind of used as a little bit of the model for Wendy in my novel, almost.
	Because she was beautiful, incredibly charismatic, vivacious, intelligent, a great conversationalist, very funny, a good writer.
	And, man, I mean, she went nuts.
	They locked her in an insane asylum, and she ended up burning to death when the asylum burnt down.
	She got trapped in her cell and literally burned to death in late middle age.
	It was just an absolutely godforsaken end to a life where everybody wanted to be her.
	Zelda Fitzgerald, she was like the belle of the ball, the queen of things.
	In Tender is the Night, there's legendary descriptions of partying and later after the main guy who hosts these parties and everybody loves these parties, they're like incredible.
	They're like Freddie Mercury parties or something like that, right?
	Everybody's like the Freddie Mercury parties with Queen where there'd be dwarves covered in cocaine that you could snort off, like just insane stuff.
	And many years later, after this, the main character is burned out on these parties and his life has kind of fallen apart.
	He meets some guy who was at one of his parties like 10 years before.
	And the guy's eyes light up when he sees the guy who used to host the parties, the main character.
	The guy, he lights up and is like, oh my God, that was the greatest night of my life.
	I think about that all the time.
	Are you still having those parties?
	It was such a high for that guy to be at one of these parties.
	The rest of his life has become kind of gray.
	To me, that was an incredible moment, and I'm sure that happened in F. Scott Fitzgerald's actual life, but it's incredibly addictive.
	Because people don't understand how much addicts cause other people to become addicted to them.
	And sometimes that can be for negative things.
	Like I'm sure your wife, and we'll get to all of this, is doing a lot to try and manage your life.
	In other words, she has to be kind of addicted to you in order to survive as she would see it.
	But yeah, people who are addicted can be immensely addictive to others.
	Yeah, that's exactly how you could describe all my parties back in the day, at least for my circles.
	Legendary, right? Yeah, with the requisite pause.
	Yeah, like I can invite people to parties, or at least I used to be able to invite people to parties that I hadn't seen in years, and they would come if they got the invite, because they knew that that was going to be a fun night.
	And can I tell you something?
	I envy that. I have almost never had the ability to throw parties.
	I mean, straight up, you know, I got my strengths.
	Being a party thrower is not one of them.
	You know, I got to tell you, if there was like, let's say you and I have competing parties on a Saturday night, right?
	And I'm next door to everyone, and you're like three towns over, where are they going?
	Yeah. Where are they going?
	Yeah, they're going to my place.
	They're going to your place.
	But I have Boggle!
	No, I remember once a friend of mine saying, he said, this is what you're like, man.
	I'm not friends with him anymore, but it doesn't really matter.
	He said, this is what you're kind of like, right?
	So this is what happens.
	This is, you know, everyone's up at the cottage, right?
	Everyone's up at the cottage, like 20 people up at a big cottage, right?
	And everyone just had a blast the night before.
	And, you know, the next morning they're, you know, kind of mellow, kind of a little burned out, a little hungover, kind of tired.
	And they're sitting on the dock, you know, having a coffee, trying to get their thoughts in order and trying to figure out what they're going to do with the day.
	And, you know, maybe a little peaceful, easy feeling is playing on the radio and it's pretty mellow.
	And then you're the guy who comes up and says, hey, let's play Pictionary!
	It's like, it's not quite punchable, but it's a little punchable.
	And yeah, that's me.
	Listen, I'm pretty good with dinner parties, and we used to have gatherings...
	Of free-domain people, which were really, really fun.
	But I don't throw good parties, and I would never in a million years be able to compete with what you do.
	And what you do is cool.
	If you can have it without the addictive, self-destructive behavior, it would be pretty good.
	But yeah, I gave up on this many, many years ago, throwing parties, because people wouldn't show...
	And if they did show...
	You know, if you don't have the critical mass, it's pretty lame, as you know.
	And, of course, you need the right...
	You also know... You probably know exactly who to invite, too, to make sure that that's the right alchemy of people in the room and all that.
	Yes. Yeah, good for you.
	Hey, so you're on my turf with the philosophy stuff, but I'd be on your turf.
	I'd be your apprentice when it came to throwing parties.
	Right. I just wanted to mention that.
	Okay, so... Did you just recently turn 30?
	What's prompting this call?
	What's aligned in your world that you're like, man, I've got to talk?
	In particular, my health.
	It's starting to get to me.
	I used to be able to ignore all my body telling me, hey, you're getting sick.
	Because I, of course, came up with all the prevention strategies to prevent hangovers the next day or to limit the effects of them.
	I mean, I can limit them down to just the brain fog.
	I won't throw up.
	I can do a lot to mitigate that just through taking the right stuff or drinking the right things.
	So I can't do that anymore.
	It's starting to affect my health, I think.
	And, you know, it's kind of put in the fear of my mortality or my Reminding me of my mortality.
	And then looking at my son going, Jesus, he needs me there.
	When he was born, I already went sober for like a month and a half because you can't drink and be a father to a newborn.
	It ain't happening. And I slowly slipped back down into it.
	And then I tried to seek out therapy this summer and it didn't work.
	So I'm back at it again trying to I'll solve it.
	It's your health, it's your son, and how are things with your wife?
	They're better after the kid's been born.
	It was really rough before we decided to finally have a kid.
	I definitely treated her like shit.
	I don't mean to rub your nose in it, but what does that mean?
	What happened that you're not happy with?
	You probably know with drinking.
	If you're in the wrong mood and start drinking, that mood is amplified.
	Whatever mood you're in is amplified.
	If you come in happy, it's going to be really fun.
	If you come in angry or upset about something and drink, especially for me, I turn into an absolute asshole.
	Well, you're just looking for a fight guy, right?
	Right, right. Exactly. Looking for a fight.
	My wife is messy, extremely messy, disorganized.
	Got a little better in the last year with a kid because she's stuck at home.
	But something would tick me off.
	I'd go walking into the kitchen and the kitchen would be a disorganized mess.
	And I'm like, what the fuck is all this?
	I can still feel the rage of that moment.
	Of those moments, you know, I've taken keyboards off my desk and broken them on my deck outside and shot the keys all over the backyard while swearing at everybody.
	Like, it's the bad side of alcohol that nobody tells you about when you're younger.
	Oh, yeah. No, the mean drunk stuff, it's kind of a stereotype, but it's definitely there.
	And I haven't had that with keyboards.
	I've definitely had that with printers on a regular basis because printers and Bluetooth, they're just total fucking lies.
	But that's a topic for another time.
	Connecting? No, I'm not connecting.
	I'm just going to have you stand here for 20 minutes pushing a button for no purpose.
	So, okay, so you got the anger.
	And of course, but of course, if your wife was, if she had the kind of virtues that you're attacking her for lacking, she probably wouldn't have married you in the first place, right?
	Yeah. Right.
	Absolutely. And certainly, it is kind of ironic.
	I'm sure you're perfectly aware of this, but it's kind of ironic that the biggest mess in the house is you, not the kitchen, right?
	Like you're yelling at the kitchen.
	It's like, okay, so we've got the big mess calling the little mess.
	How tough is it to clean up your drinking?
	That's a huge job. How tough it is to clean up the kitchen?
	Maybe 20 minutes. Yeah, that's...
	I mean, I always feel like that's what my anger is directed at, is the small shit because I don't want to deal with the...
	Excuse my swearing. I'm a pipe fitter, so...
	Listen, I don't give a shit about your swearing.
	I really don't care less. Just don't...
	No, don't self-censor. Don't self-censor at all.
	You know, sticks and stones, man.
	Sticks and stones. The words ain't going to do us any harm at all, so...
	Right. No, so, I mean, I know what you mean about, like, if you're a mess in your mind and your heart, then little external messes, it's a lot easier because then it puts your wife on the defensive rather than having her look critically at you.
	Because I'm sure there are points at the marriage where if she looked and sat, really looked at you and figured out, she'd be like, I'm gone.
	Yeah. We actually had a conversation where she thought about that like four years into our relationship.
	Yeah. Oh yeah, and I guarantee you since then, she's like, fuck, if I'd have done it back then, I wouldn't have to deal with it now.
	I'm sure she's had those thoughts.
	What was the impetus behind the decision to become parents?
	Or was it a decision? Was it an oops?
	How did that play? No, we've always been extremely careful.
	She's been on birth control, and I've worn condoms pretty much the entire time we've been together.
	So we always said that it takes two people to be responsible for making the kids, so each one of us should have responsibility in regards to birth.
	So we always wanted kids, and the whole limiting factor was she wanted to go to school and work as a veterinary technician for a while.
	So she went through college and then worked for a few years and then we said okay it's time to have kids like we gotta quit screwing around because you know I started listening to you and I was like holy crap like we do have this wall coming up real quick and we want to have kids so let's get them out like let's go.
	Yeah it's an under remarked upon reason why I get so much hostility Among certain circles is because, you know, certain circles don't want the smart people having kids, and I'm like, hey, hey, hey, let's make sure we have those kids, right, if you want them.
	So what was the, like, I'm sort of trying to understand, like, if she wants to have kids, and I guess maybe this is before you all figured out the clock or whatever, right, or the wall, but, you know, go to college, get into a career, get started, and they're like, nope, having kids.
	Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying she should go back, but is that sort of the idea, like later in life?
	Yeah, I mean, currently she works two Saturdays a month.
	Her employer wanted to keep her.
	And she can maintain her licenses with that.
	So that's just the day I take my son.
	We go to a park or something or do something.
	No, I get that. It's just that, you know, society's down one veterinary assistant, right?
	Yeah, yeah. So he doesn't plan on entering the workforce full-time for probably.
	I'm just like, I'm saying this not for your wife.
	Sorry to interrupt. I'm saying this not for your wife, but for the other women out there.
	Like, be responsible for what society needs because you kind of bump in some other guy there who could actually be a vet or veterinary assistant.
	I'm just going to say vet because I don't want to say veterinary assistant the whole time, right?
	But, you know, if you're a young woman and you're out there, you want to have kids, like just find the guy, have the kids.
	And then, you know, you want to become a vet assistant when your kids are older, fantastic.
	Go do it and enjoy it.
	But this whole, I'm going to do four years of college or three years of college, I'm going to do a year or two of interning.
	I'm going to start my, oh, nope, nope.
	Then I'm just going to work two Saturdays a month.
	It's like, well, the animals kind of need more.
	And, you know, have your kids, be young.
	It's really good to have kids when you're young.
	And then you can do your career stuff, which is an honorable and noble thing for women to do.
	You can do that down the road.
	But it just, I just, at a personal level, it just kind of bothers me when, you know, society has poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into trading a vet assistant who then goes off and has kids.
	And, you know, it's great that you're having kids, don't get me wrong.
	But it's like, okay, well, that was a pretty bad investment, right?
	Right. The only other reason I could think is, at least when I was younger, before, you know, I really got focused on self-knowledge with your stuff was...
	I always had this, you know, a lot of self-hatred, a lot of doubt that I was going to live a long time.
	And I told her, I was like, look, you got to have a skill set for when I die.
	Because I was thinking it wasn't going to be a long time.
	How good looking are you, man?
	Not that good looking. Is it penis size?
	Is it like, what is the story where you say to a woman...
	Oh yeah, I'm going to drink myself into an early grave, so you've got to have some skills.
	And she's like, yeah, this would be great.
	Let's get married and have kids. Help me understand.
	I mean, you've got to have something.
	I had a motorcycle and charisma, and that's what it was.
	So it's going to be a challenge to your relationship when you become a decent guy in this way, right?
	Because she likes them dangerous, right?
	Yeah, a little bit, but not too much.
	I mean, I don't know.
	A little bit? I'm going to drink myself into an early grave?
	So you've got to have a job to pay the...
	That's not a little bit on the dangerous side, right?
	I guess that's relative to the...
	A little bit on the dangerous side is...
	A little bit on the dangerous side is...
	I don't know. I like to fry bacon in the nude.
	That's a little bit on the dangerous side.
	Where you are is like really close to being off the chart.
	Because you're openly saying to her, I'm going to die young, so for God's sakes be educated because you're going to need to foot the bills after I die.
	And she's like, yeah, sign me up.
	That's what I'm trying to figure out.
	Like, okay, so what's, I mean, okay, let me ask you this more frankly.
	Did she make a good decision?
	Back then? No.
	No, she didn't. She did not, right?
	She didn't know me, and first date, she got on the back of my motorcycle.
	Yeah, so she likes him bad, right?
	And that's going to be a challenge. I mean, Frank, straight up, that is going to be a challenge.
	Like, this is one of the reasons why it's hard to quit drinking.
	It's because she chose you when you were a bad boy, to put it mildly.
	A self-destructive person, right?
	And you were frank about it.
	You weren't hiding it. You were like, yeah, I'm going to die young.
	So make sure you're educated because you're going to have to make it go it alone, right?
	Yeah, she just never believed me.
	No, I think she did because you were certainly heading that way, right?
	You kind of still are, right?
	Well, not when she first met me.
	I wasn't there when she first met me.
	Right. So she thought you were lying about your future or you were deluded about your future.
	See, either she believed you, in which case she made a bad decision, or she thought that you were just, what, bullshitting her, just like saying tough guy stuff or whatever, in which case...
	She's, you know, you're kind of lying about some pretty important things and or, you know, whether you're lying consciously or not.
	But like you either were a bad boy or you were completely deluded about your future.
	You know, either way, it's not a, you know, come on.
	I mean, if this woman had called me up, can I imagine this, right?
	You've listened to these shows before, right?
	So we could be frank, right?
	So imagine your girlfriend back in the day had called me up and said, you know, I really like this guy.
	But he's really encouraged.
	He says he's just not going to live long.
	He's not making plans for a long life.
	And I've got to get an education in because he's just going to die young and I'm going to have to find some way to fund a family alone.
	What do you think I would say?
	What do you think anyone would say?
	Well, yeah, this is probably not, you know, this is probably not the, like, why?
	Like, so you got to have something to compensate, I assume, right?
	Something that makes you, is it the charisma thing that we talked about or something where she's like, oh, yeah, this is the guy for me.
	No, yeah, like I said, like we talked about, I'm the center of energy and everything that's happening, like.
	It's a magnetic personality in a way, but it's weird because I also live the dual life of being a nerd.
	Listening to your work is kind of on the more nerdy intellectual side.
	I don't agree with that.
	Listen, I got to push back on that.
	I don't think that what I do is – I mean there's nerdy stuff for sure, and I've got my nerdy side as well.
	But this is leather and motorcycle philosophy shit that we talk about here.
	This is like confronting people.
	This is like dealing with your demons.
	You know, you're not calling up to talk to me about Star Trek, right?
	I mean, this is like really meaty, deep, dangerous stuff.
	So, you know, I am, you know, this is like tough guy philosophy as a whole because it is not abstract.
	It's not bullshit. It's like real rubber on the road stuff.
	So... I agree with you, a lot of philosophy is nerdy, and I just, you know, I don't agree with you on the characterization of this particular show, because if it was, it wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't be of any use to you.
	Okay, so she, yeah, so she's, so you're her alcohol, right?
	Possibly, yeah. Well, no, because you're a destructive substance that she's addicted to, right?
	Yeah. And so, you're both addicts, probably, right?
	Right. And I'm saying this because you quitting alcohol is going to threaten her addiction to you.
	And this is one of the reasons why people keep drinking.
	It's like, I have a stable environment here.
	Everything's known, it's predictable.
	Sorry, I just made a connection to something.
	Yeah, yeah, go. It's your show, man.
	Go for it. Yeah. Yeah.
	So guess why my birth mother left my father?
	I'm going to guess with he quit drinking.
	Yep, he was boring.
	There we go. Yep, he was boring.
	He was boring. So if you quit drinking, it's going to be like she quits drinking.
	And the depression that you're facing when not drinking, she's going to face when you quit drinking.
	Because you're focused on the alcohol and she's focused on you and neither of you are dealing with your own stuff, right?
	So having a chaotic person in your life is a great excuse to not deal with your own stuff.
	Because you're like, oh, is he drinking?
	Is he right? Is it good? Is it bad?
	Are we going to pay bills? It's too expensive?
	You just focus on the other person so much that you just don't have to deal with your own shit, right?
	Absolutely. Right.
	Right. So she's an integral part, and, you know, I assume unconsciously, blah, blah, blah, but she's an integral part of why you keep drinking and why it's scary to stop.
	And the depression might be like, can my marriage survive sobriety?
	Or me not being a charismatic, dangerous guy.
	I don't think all that risk-taking will go away, but some of it will, that's for sure.
	Right. Okay, so let's do the childhood stuff.
	We've got a good old leisurely time because you're the only person I'm talking to tonight.
	So what's the story of early you?
	Divorced household.
	I got an older sister, about six years.
	And my dad and my...
	I don't know why the hell my dad ever got with my birth mother.
	She was adopted and abused as an adopted child.
	She was apparently extremely attractive.
	That's probably why.
	But they divorced when I was three.
	And she took everything and somehow he got me and my sister.
	To the point that my dad had nowhere to go and his company bought his house that he lives in now.
	At least paid for the mortgage.
	So I gave him a cheaper interest rate and everything.
	So my dad remarried when I was about five and I got three older stepbrothers out of the deal.
	And my stepmom is Very emotionally abusive.
	I don't remember a time when she wasn't young.
	Sorry, I'm so sorry to interrupt you.
	I've bookmarked this in my brain, but I don't want to get too far away from one of the saddest things I ever heard from you just now.
	Truly one of the saddest things I've ever heard.
	It's probably right at the heart of your depression.
	I don't know if you noticed it.
	I did not. Let me just ask the chat, hey, you guys paying attention?
	What was the saddest thing that we heard just now?
	We can wait.
	Someone says, fuck, I missed it.
	I'm not boring. See, you and I can swear, but they have to say fug.
	All right. So, I'll just wait.
	Somebody else is typing here. Yeah, I guarantee you this is one of the saddest things you'll hear.
	And because when people tell their past, right, it comes in two layers.
	So the first is stuff you said before.
	And then the second is stuff that's more real.
	And I don't criticize it.
	Everybody has to start with stuff they said before.
	You know, like if I have another person say to me, I was just getting something to eat with my daughter tonight.
	And, you know, for about the five billionth time, some woman was like, hey, you've got a really interesting accent.
	Where are you from? No, his father should never have married his mother.
	Okay, I will tell you the saddest thing that I heard, and it is really, really sad.
	So the saddest thing I heard was when you said, my parents divorced when I was three years old.
	And my mother got everything.
	You said, I don't know how, my mother got everything.
	But... But my sister and I ended up with my dad.
	Do you remember saying that? Yeah.
	Okay. The key thing there is the word everything.
	Right.
	Because if your mother got everything except you and your sister, that means you and your sister are nothing.
	Because most parents would be like, I just want the kids.
	I don't care about the rest. I don't care about the money.
	I don't care about the house. I don't care about the cars.
	I don't care about the bank account.
	I just want my children.
	But you said she got everything.
	Well, except for my sister and I. But if she gets 100%, then you are 0%.
	And your sister is 0%.
	You are nothing in that formulation.
	Do you see what I mean? Right.
	I do. So let's...
	And I bookmarked the three stepbrothers and the abusive stepmother.
	I bookmarked that, but let's go the fuck back to you and your sister or nothing.
	Because that's the formulation, right?
	Amen.
	She got everything.
	Well, except for my sister and I. Okay, so...
	What was your mother's evaluation of the value of your sister and yourself?
	Yeah, that we weren't worth anything to her.
	Where did the word everything come from?
	Because as a kid, right?
	I mean, as a kid, if you have self-esteem and your mother doesn't want you, you say, oh, she got nothing.
	She got some money. She got real estate.
	Who gives a shit? She didn't get me. She got nothing.
	But you're like, she got everything.
	So where does the word everything come from with regards to that divorce?
	Who said that to you?
	Or where did you come with the word?
	I mean, I don't know whoever said it to me, but that's mostly how I felt about myself.
	Okay, so what did she get materially?
	I believe a house and a bunch of money.
	Right, right. The house had a bunch of money.
	So go on. And alimony, you know, she got to, she had to pay my dad less in child support than he had to pay her in alimony.
	Oh, fuck.
	Oh my God, really?
	Yeah. He had to pay her more in alimony than she paid him in child support.
	Yeah, he made, he was a union tradesman.
	He made a lot of money. But even the courts were saying you were worthless.
	Yeah. Because she got all this money, she got all this real estate, and she got more money from your dad than she paid in child support.
	Right. Jesus.
	So did your dad say she got everything?
	Honestly, Steph, I couldn't tell you.
	But at some point, you got a sense of the transfer, right?
	Somebody characterized it.
	Somebody characterized it this way.
	She got everything. Now, I know you say you can't remember much of what happened before you were five.
	I know this happened when you were three.
	So, you know, I don't want you to pull an answer out of your ass.
	But somehow, it was characterized that your mom got everything.
	When I would argue, she got nothing.
	She got worse than nothing.
	She got worse than... She didn't even have her kids.
	You know, I mean, God forbid, right?
	I mean, if my wife and I were ever to separate, I don't know, let's say I got where we live, right?
	And she got my daughter.
	What would I say? I got everything.
	God, no. What would I say?
	I got nothing. You got a place to live.
	I don't care. I'll sell that to pay lawyers to get access to my daughter.
	I don't care about that.
	I don't care. I'll live in a fucking bridge.
	I'll live in a car.
	I'll live in a school bus on fucking bricks.
	I will sell everything I've got and a kidney to get access to my daughter.
	Because I got a roof over my head, but without people in it I love.
	It's nothing. Yep.
	She got nothing. That's how I feel about my son now.
	Of course, you know, like now you're a dad, can you imagine?
	High-fiving yourself because you got a stack of cash and not your son?
	Fuck. Yeah, no.
	I don't want to think about that.
	So your mother was adopted...
	So she knows, right down in her fucking core, she knows what it is to be abandoned by a parent, right?
	yep and what did she do to you and your sister well she did the same thing She had experienced abandon us for something else.
	Now, see, people...
	Okay, sorry. You said you don't know why?
	No, yeah. I don't know what she chased instead.
	Well, she chased money, right?
	You don't end up accidentally getting more in alimony than you pay in child support.
	She chased money. Yeah.
	Do you know how old she was when she was put up for adoption?
	Very young. Like months?
	Weeks? I don't.
	I never ask those questions. I just know that her adoptive parents were very abusive emotionally to her.
	Do you know anything about her birth parents?
	No. Nobody does.
	Oh, it was a sealed adoption?
	I believe so. Or she holds the information, which I don't even know if she has a mental capacity to now to even give me that information.
	Well, that's the thing, right?
	The past is sealed off by empty people because you'll never get the truth out of them anyway.
	You know, I would love to know more about my mom's experiences during the war, but I'll never get the truth out of her.
	I mean, she's no incentive to tell me the truth and every incentive to lie.
	So there's no footage, there's no documentary, there's no facts, there's only reports from unreliable witnesses, right?
	So it's all hearsay and nonsense.
	Yeah, the only real evidence I have is like stories from family members and then...
	You know, she's also kind of neglective, I guess, when she took care of me.
	Like, one time, like, I've got this massive, this scar on my forehead, in the center of my forehead.
	I don't, supposedly, I was bleeding really bad.
	Instead of taking me to the hospital, she just kind of let it heal over, and now I've got a big scar there.
	So it's just stuff like that that happened that I, or like, she didn't breastfeed me.
	She only stuck a bottle of apple juice in my mouth all the time.
	Oh, that's bad for your teeth.
	Did you just give your mic a tap, just getting that crackling back for a sec?
	No, sorry. Thanks. Now, is she addicted to anything?
	I mean, like physical addiction?
	I think she might drink now, maybe.
	I don't know. Oh, so you don't have anything to do with her?
	I saw her once a year while she was over here on the West Coast, but then she moved to the East Coast literally months before my son was born.
	Well, she probably would find it unbearable to be around him, right?
	I don't know. Provoke too much guilt.
	Yeah, it's possible.
	No, if she just happens to move away right before her grandchild is born, after she abandoned her son and daughter, come on.
	That's fleeing an approaching wound, right?
	Yeah, and it's her first grandchild, too.
	Yeah. Well, at least she has the kindness to keep herself away from him.
	Yeah. Which is good.
	At least she can quarantine him from her toxicity, right?
	Yeah, I don't want to deal with him.
	So, tell me about your stepmom and your stepbrother.
	So, I guess your dad married this woman.
	She was divorced. She had three kids.
	And you were five, right?
	Right. Um...
	Yeah, I told you I bookmarked it, right?
	We're back. We're back.
	And yeah, tell me about how did that play out?
	I mean, did you get to meet them before?
	Did you get any kind of say?
	Or were you consulted? Or how did that work?
	Oh, hell no. Hell no.
	Yeah, I mean, I was pretty young.
	I think I was four when I met them.
	I was pretty big. My dad had computers back then, you know, 1994.
	So I was using DOS and stuff.
	One of my brothers...
	You were a DOS four-year-old?
	Yeah. Good for you, man.
	That's what I mean. I'm kind of a nerd.
	So it's... But I remember playing computer games with my youngest stepbrother, who was 10 at the time, or 11, and playing different games on DOS, Doom, and things I shouldn't have been playing.
	So I did get to meet them, but I didn't get to say, in fact, I remember the wedding day after my dad got his new house.
	Sitting on the stairs, crying my eyes out because I didn't...
	I don't know what I didn't like about the situation, but there's something I didn't like and nobody cared.
	They just told me I had to go stand there and take pictures with them and be there for the ceremony that was inside the house.
	How much older were the stepbrothers?
	Six years. I feel bad for not knowing my stepbrothers' ages, but they're like six years older.
	I want to say like 10 years and like 12 years or something.
	Oh, so they didn't...
	They had basically fuck all to do with you, right?
	At least in terms of level of interest.
	Oh, yeah. Yeah.
	My oldest stepbrother, I think, was 17 when I met him.
	Yeah. Not doing a whole lot to hang with the four-year-olds, right?
	Right. And he had his own set of problems, which didn't help anything.
	And what were those? I found out as of two years ago that he was molested by his birth father.
	So your dad decided to marry a woman who'd married a pedophile.
	Yeah. He really can't fucking pick him, can't he?
	Right. Were any of the other brothers affected that you know of?
	They don't say so.
	Once I found this out, I actually caused a big shitstorm in the family and I kind of had a family meeting about all this where, you know, my parents denied everything, said all the lines of, you know, parents always say we did the best we could and all that because I couldn't believe it.
	Wait, sorry. I'm so sorry.
	I just missed that. But what did you bring up in a family meeting and when did it happen?
	It was 2018, I believe, just before Thanksgiving.
	I exploded on him when he was back.
	My oldest stepbrother was back in town because he's deep into alcohol, drugs, been to prison a bunch, all that.
	So he was back in town.
	Nobody wanted to deal with him.
	And I was like, I'm doing this journey of self-knowledge.
	Maybe I should talk to him and figure out, kind of see what's going on.
	And he told me all the stuff and I was just, I'm sitting there shocked because I'm like, did nobody notice this?
	Like, am I walking around?
	I assume the abuse was pretty bad.
	It wasn't just like penis grabbing.
	It was like pretty bad. He didn't tell me that.
	I could see that he doesn't talk to people about that and he's 45 now.
	And by the way, just so nobody misunderstands, penis grabbing is pretty shitty, but there's still levels of molestation and there's straight up rape.
	There's a lot of levels to molestation and child sexual abuse and Given, you know, his life of crime and addiction, I'm going to assume that it was pretty fucking bad.
	Yeah, and I've met their father.
	He's a fucking weirdo.
	He just screams pedophile.
	So how long was it before one of the older brothers introduced you to pornography?
	They never did, actually.
	Oh, good. I'm very glad to hear that, though I'm a little surprised.
	But, you know, hey, these are good surprises to have, man.
	I discovered on my own on the internet.
	Did someone tell you?
	I'm sure it was at school or something, you know, being on the nerdy end.
	Yeah, I just want to sort of take a moment to warn parents that there are the creepy kids who are going to corner your kids and tell them all about sex on the internet and suggest that they look things up and out of curiosity, blah, blah, blah, you just...
	That's a factor in the world that is, right?
	I mean, it's just a factor in the world that is, and parents, you just need to keep those lines of communication.
	We all understand this, right?
	It's one of the reasons I don't want my kid in government schools or schools as a whole because I just don't want her to...
	You know, get cornered by some creepy kid who's gonna...
	Anyway, anyway. God forbid, right?
	So... Okay, so...
	Did you ever end up with any positive relationships with these...
	Any of the... I guess not the oldest, but any of the other brothers?
	I had kind of a good relationship with my youngest stepbrother.
	But a lot of that ended because they all went in the military.
	And it was sudden and it was all at once.
	So I had a relationship with him, but once he got to the end of his high school years, he's looking back at this little brother like, what am I doing with him?
	Like, he's boring. I want to do other stuff.
	Chase girls, play video games on his fancy computer and work his job and didn't really care about me.
	I bet they went into the army because they couldn't protect their brother.
	They all went at the same time, including my sister, except for my oldest stepbrother.
	Oh, your sister went into the army too?
	Yeah, she was the one who started it, I believe.
	Started everybody going.
	And what's her story? Well, it goes all the way back to the original divorce.
	She was the one who got my dad to quit drinking because one day he was pissed off and angry about something and he saw the fear in her eyes.
	This is the story he tells me.
	And he just gave it up right then.
	He was done. He went to treatment for a month in-house or in-patient treatment and never drank again.
	And she's older than you?
	Yeah, six years older.
	Six years older than you.
	So this is probably where some of your male disposability comes from.
	Because he only changed because of her, not because of the fear in your eyes, right?
	I don't think I was alive when he quit drinking.
	Oh, okay, sorry, sorry.
	Okay, got it, got it. I think the divorce stuff was a ramping up situation over time because he also quit smoking weed after the drinking.
	He gave up weed last, or cigarettes last, but weed was admitted.
	Wait, so he was weed, alcohol, and nicotine?
	Yeah, before kids, he was into LSD and, you know, that kind of stuff.
	Wow. So, your biological mom, she was around for, I mean, close on 10 years with your raising your sister before she divorced, right?
	Because if I remember, if I've got the math correct, she's six years, you were three, she's nine.
	So, she was around for a good chunk of child raising, right?
	Right. Right.
	And do you know, and then when your dad quit drinking, that's when your mom left?
	No, it was mostly...
	It was definitely after the weed, though.
	After he quit the weed. The drinking, I think, started the...
	After he quit the weed. Yeah, he started the escalation.
	I think that started the escalation of him being boring and not...
	Because he was working all the time to provide for the family.
	So... Was she materialistic?
	I mean, I guess if she wanted the house, was she materialistic?
	Like she wanted more stuff, cooler stuff?
	I wish I knew.
	I don't know much about her because...
	Well, she took the house, right? Well, yeah, yeah.
	She came to the house instead of her kids, and she wanted money, right?
	Yeah. Yeah, and this is just a little bit of advice to you.
	I don't know what the situation is with your wife, but, you know, given that we're talking to the world as well.
	Listen, guys, guys, husbands, and particularly fathers, your wife is going to want a lot of stuff.
	And you know what you have to say?
	Hell no. Hell no.
	Because if you want all this stuff...
	I've got to work a lot. And then do you know what you're going to say?
	You're emotionally unavailable.
	You're never here. So if you choose stuff over me, I'd be pretty upset at that.
	Now, obviously, we need a roof over our head.
	We need food and all of that.
	But if you choose stuff over me, because, you know, everything you want, I've got to go out and pay for it.
	And so when you want stuff, you know, let's say you want something that costs, I don't know, a couple of hundred bucks.
	Well, you know, that could be four or five or six, seven hours of my time.
	So you want something in the closet, a pair of shoes or whatever shit that you want.
	And you want that instead of spending time with me for half a day.
	And again, I know we need food.
	Got to have healthcare. Got to have shelter.
	Got to have heat. Got to have internet.
	Got to listen to Free Domain. Got it.
	So I'm happy. You know, I'm happy to be gone for seven hours a day, eight hours a day.
	But if you want me gone nine or ten hours a day because you want stuff that, frankly, we don't need, then you're choosing stuff over me.
	And that's kind of insulting.
	Like, why would you want... A pair of shoes in the closet rather than me across the table.
	Why? That's not right priorities.
	And the other thing too is that the quality of our relationship is really important.
	And if I have to work overtime to pay for all the stuff you want that we don't need, Then our relationship is going to get harmed and it could end up in a divorce.
	And then all the stuff that you have, we're going to have to sell to pay for lawyers.
	So you don't get to keep it anyway.
	So let's just keep our perspective.
	Let's keep our priorities. Let's enjoy each other's company.
	Forget all the useless shit we don't need.
	That's just an important, you know, if you have that kind of wife and, you know, you may.
	And listen, If you're the female provider in the family and your husband wants a bunch of useless shit, you've got to have the same speech with him.
	Nothing matters more than the people in your life.
	Nothing matters more than the people in your life.
	And do not choose useless shit over the people you love.
	It erodes their sense of value and their sense of worth.
	And It's not worth it.
	All the shit that you get, all the stuff that you have, it's just going to turn to ash.
	Look, you know this, man.
	How many computers have you been through in your life?
	10? 20? Yeah, definitely.
	Right? Yeah, they all got thrown in landfill.
	They all, right? How many cell phones do you have in a drawer somewhere?
	Same amount. 10, 20, right?
	Now, again, it's fine.
	You know, get a new self.
	But don't do it to the point.
	Because, you know, we have our tech and they have their closet full of God knows what, right?
	And, you know, you can go in and you say, oh, I need a dress.
	It's like you go in and say, okay, when was the last time you wore this one?
	When was the last time you wore this one?
	When did you last? Look at these shoes.
	They've got a layer of dust on them.
	Look at this sweater. It's like under 12 other sweaters.
	And you tell me you need a sweater?
	Come on. Now, she can do the same thing with you.
	You've got a perfectly functional cell phone.
	Why do you need a new one? Well, it's 4K. It's 60 frames.
	We barely even look at the videos you take.
	Nobody's going to be archiving this and turning it into a Scorsese film, for God's sakes, right?
	Because, I mean, I'll spend like crazy on this show, right?
	And you just have to remember, you know, don't...
	Never threaten your relationships for stuff.
	Never. Never, ever, ever, ever.
	And so you got a wife and she's going to want things.
	Hypergamy, the same way that you as a man are going to want things you don't need.
	You don't need them. You don't need them.
	And you got to go work to pay for them.
	You know, at the end of your life, if somebody were to say to you, well, you could have another 10,000 hours with your wife, but you won't have a drawer full of 100 useless cell phones, right?
	What are you going to say? Say, I want those 10,000 hours with my wife.
	Because the cell phones actually are going to distract you more from your wife.
	And, you know, when your wife goes shopping for the shoes or the clothes or whatever, You're not going, right?
	You're not going with her. So that's time she's spending away from you, spending money that you have to earn by spending time away from her.
	The shoes are between you and her.
	Don't do it, man. Don't.
	Do it. Don't be distracted by stuff.
	Don't fall prey to the advertisers.
	You've got to get the coolest thing, but your cell phone doesn't have 300 cameras, man.
	You'd rather have a flip phone and a happy marriage.
	Than an iPhone MaxiPad Pro head and a distant wife.
	So, sorry for that slight aside, but this is really, really important.
	Do not let stuff come between you and your loved ones.
	Spend time with them. Be connected with them.
	And you'll find that you just need less stuff anyway.
	You know, my wife and I... So she did a thing where she said, you know what?
	I don't need anything. I'm not going to buy anything for a year.
	I think that was two and a half years ago.
	I think she's bought like one or two things.
	And I'm like, you know, I really do get a little overboard on tech.
	So the last thing that I bought was the microphone that I used to record almost with.
	But I kind of needed that for sanity's sake because it was so much work doing those characters and those voices.
	The idea that, oh, the levels were a little too high or something happened to the settings.
	I needed a completely isolated area to record that in where it was just like one mixer, one computer, one microphone, and that's all it does.
	There's nothing else that it does.
	I don't boot it up for emails.
	I don't do anything. I don't install it.
	It's frozen. Nothing changes.
	Nothing happens. And so, yeah, just try and stay away from stuff you don't need if it's going to interfere with, you know.
	Hey, a vacation? Do you need a vacation?
	No, but you go on a vacation or you go out for dinner, that's worthwhile because you get to spend more quality time.
	And there's not as much cleanup and you get to have better conversations and the same thing.
	So I'm all for, like, buying experiences for sure.
	And this is the studies show that it's the experiences that make you happy, not the stuff, right?
	So, yeah, I'm all for that stuff.
	You know, go to a butterfly conservatory.
	You know, go to a science center with you.
	You know, all this is a dad, right?
	Just go and have fun, right? I'm down for that because that's buying quality time together.
	But stuff is buying...
	Unquality time apart.
	And your mom seems pretty materialistic if she's like, someone gave you this impression that she got everything because she got some useless shit that doesn't matter anymore.
	She doesn't even live in that house anymore.
	The money is long gone.
	But the void in her heart where her children should be, that's forever, man.
	Right? Right.
	All right. Just end of advertisement for not listening to advertisements.
	That's it, man.
	Okay. And this did not get deducted from our time together, just so you know.
	So how did your mom's life play out?
	She had another kid.
	I have a half-brother somewhere in the world.
	He was viciously abused by his father, thrown against walls as an infant and taken away by the state.
	I'm so sorry. I'm so rude.
	Somebody just mentioned something in the chat and I just glanced at it.
	And so you were talking about your mother.
	She had another kid with a guy who was just horrifying?
	Yeah. I have a half-brother and he got thrown against walls as a, I assume, baby or a toddler and was taken away by the state.
	Did he suffer brain damage?
	Did he get messed up that way?
	I was told by her.
	I asked about him recently, like a year ago.
	What his name was and everything in case it ever came up.
	She said he's normal, but I don't know if I trust anything she says.
	Wait, she didn't give you his name?
	No, she gave him his name, but I can't find him.
	He may have taken his adoptive parent's name.
	Huh. Did you ever meet him?
	No. I probably met him when he was a tiny baby.
	I just don't remember. How old were you when she had the kid?
	I think like six or seven.
	Wait, so you had virtually no contact with your mom then?
	Yeah, none. She got visitation rights like once a month because I didn't finish telling you the story of what she did the night of the big breakup, I guess.
	All right, let's go back to that.
	I'm happy to hear. You know, I probably won't be happy to hear, but I'm eager to hear.
	Yeah. So it's kind of my sister's story more because I was three, so it's a little bit harder for me to remember anything.
	But my dad had gotten home from work, taking his boots off, was sitting in his recliner.
	And they both got in a fight, I guess, were yelling at each other, and she grabbed his work boots and started hitting him in the crotch with him.
	Well, he grabbed her wrist to defend herself and she bruises like a banana.
	It's just her genetics.
	My sister and I are the same way.
	You can see when we get hit, we bruise.
	The cops were called because she felt like she was being attacked and they saw the bruises on her wrist and arrested him.
	So, he got released eventually.
	All that stuff went to the divorce court, went to a head, and my sister had to testify against her mother.
	Oh my god. Because she witnessed it.
	Now, did she witness the beating with the boots?
	Yeah, she did. The house was quite small.
	The bedrooms were very close to the living room where it happened.
	I think I remember the fight, but I don't know.
	Sorry, but then if she was testifying that your mother attacked first, then he was trying to defend himself, so...
	I mean, did that all get expunged?
	Did charges get dropped? Was she ever charged with filing a false police report?
	Of course she wasn't, because vagina.
	Right, and the judge took that into consideration, I think, in the court and the divorce proceedings, and that's how he got custody of me and my sister, is that she was found out to be lying about that and abusive.
	Wait, and abusive?
	Where's the abusive stuff coming in?
	Oh, sorry. Abusive to my dad.
	Oh, to your dad. Okay, so she was attacking him.
	Yeah. Boy, there's nothing more enjoyable than coming home from a day's hard work for your family and then literally having your work boots used against your penis.
	That's attacking a man in his two things, his penis and his work.
	Yeah. So you imagine my sister's life has been a series of denial and other issues.
	Well, she had it rough, too, because it's rougher when it's the same-sex parent who's the most screwed up.
	Right. And then...
	Because she imprints on...
	And also your stepmom...
	Sorry, your mom had a lot more time to impact your sister than you, right?
	She's around a lot longer. Right.
	And I guess my sister and I had really good relationships, so she kind of acted like my mother, especially for the time that I didn't have a mother.
	So, any female presence in the house, I guess.
	Right, right.
	Okay, okay.
	And when your mom would, she got visitation rights once a month?
	And did she take advantage of those?
	What happened? How did those go?
	I believe they were under supervision only.
	So she had to come to my dad's house.
	And he had to stick around while she interacted with you guys?
	Somebody had to, yeah.
	I think it was either my stepmom or him based on the time period.
	I played board games with her and that was about it.
	She'd bring me gifts and stuff.
	I don't remember anything important ever coming out of that.
	Well, she can't have any depth because down to the depths is where the conscience is, right?
	You can't have any depth.
	It's got to be about nothing.
	People who have relentlessly shallow conversations always have a bad relationship with their own conscience.
	Anyway, sorry, go ahead. No, yeah, she's got no depth.
	It's like talking to a 10-year-old.
	That's bad. Hey, hey, hey.
	I had a 10-year-old.
	She was great to talk to. Don't insult 10-year-olds.
	There's nothing wrong with 10-year-olds.
	Okay, the average 10-year-old.
	Yeah. No, kids are pretty deep.
	You know, kids are pretty deep because they've got, you know, they're still in the relentless curiosity phase as long as they haven't been hugely propagandized, right?
	Kids are really deep, really deep.
	And I remember my daughter, she was like, I don't know, three.
	And she said, so dying is, you go to sleep, how long till you wake up?
	Good question. Yeah.
	It's a deep question, right?
	It's a deep question.
	And, you know, you'll have this, right?
	You're a philosophical guy.
	You're a smart guy. Your son is going to be very curious.
	And curiosity and depth are the same thing.
	And people who are not curious, who have no depth, well.
	You know, I don't like jumping into an ocean where there's sharks.
	You know, like you see the fins. You know, they're not dolphins.
	They're like genuine dolphins. Sharks, like tiger sharks or, you know, bitey shit like great whites or whatever.
	Carcaridon, carcarious, right?
	I don't like jumping into...
	I won't jump into...
	I swam once with a shark, which was just like a nurse shark or whatever, right?
	It's no big deal, right? But, you know, if there are sharks in the water, I don't jump in.
	I don't go to the depths when there are predators down there, right?
	Nobody does. And so people who are shallow, they're just full of sharks.
	They're just full of predators. The predator being their own conscience, usually.
	So, yeah, the fact that she's relentlessly shallow makes perfect sense.
	You're trying to drag her into a conversation.
	It's like trying to drag me into shark-infested waters or push me in a fight like hell.
	All right, all right.
	So... What was your primary emotional experience as a child?
	Mine was fear, just so you know.
	Like, I mean, I don't want to tell you what yours.
	You can usually boil it down to something.
	Mine was fear. And fear and desire.
	Fear and desire are the two sides of the same coin because what you fear, you desire to get away from what you fear, right?
	So the fear and desire was pretty characteristic.
	What was yours? It's a good question for everyone to ask.
	What's my primary emotion when I'm a kid, right?
	Yeah. I remember, most I remember is, of course, after my dad remarried.
	I remember constant anxiety and fear about every interaction every day.
	As soon as I heard screaming, it was like hearing a banshee's wail.
	Not that that's real, but it scared the shit out of me.
	I remember one thing I used to do all the time is lock my knees and squeeze my legs.
	And I remember doing that so much.
	Hiding under my blanket, it's something I still do today.
	I kind of bundle up in a ball underneath my blanket because I'm hoping that nobody finds me or I don't piss her off anymore or something.
	So you understand that flexing your legs and hiding is total fight or flight?
	Yeah. The legs is flight and the hiding...
	Sorry, the hiding is...
	Flight and the legs is fight, right?
	Yeah. I guess there's fight, flight, and freeze.
	Maybe the blanket is the freeze.
	Okay, all right. Yeah, all right.
	And what was the primary danger?
	What was the stuff? What's the worst case scenario for you as a child?
	So one thing my stepmom would do is scream and yell and complain about everything and wonder why no one's helping her and then we'd offer to help her and then she would refuse to help saying it's too late, like start swearing on us and stuff.
	The biggest problem was is if we pissed her off too much and she got mad enough, she would get my dad.
	And then my dad was the violent enforcer.
	He would spank us.
	I pissed him off enough that I'd been hit in the face.
	I used to have to sit in corners for hours on end.
	And one time I ate about three quarters of a bar of soap because he caught me lying to him about scratching his pool table.
	I was trying to take the ping pong ball top off his pool table.
	Nobody wanted to help me with it and I was too small to lift it myself and there was metal in the bottom I didn't know was there and it scratched his pool table.
	And I lied about it until he got tired of seeing me crying and eating a bar of soap and sent me to my room.
	So all of that...
	How did he catch you?
	I guess you said, I didn't scratch it and people are like, well, no, he took the top off, right?
	Yeah, and nobody, he knew I was lying because, well, I'm sure he could tell.
	Yeah, and listen, for those of you who don't have violent parents, good.
	I'm very glad that you don't have violent parents.
	There's almost no dread, like, I'm fucked now.
	Right. Like, you know, you scratch that pool tabletop, right?
	You scratch that pool tabletop and it's like, I'm fucked.
	I'm so dead. I watched him play like three or four games of nine ball on that table while eating that soap.
	Wait, what do you mean? He sat there playing pool and watched me eat that bar soap.
	He played pool on the...
	How bad was the scratch?
	It was on the wood.
	It wasn't on the...
	Oh, shit, so it didn't have anything to do with how you could play.
	Yeah, it was a cosmetic...
	Oh my god. What the fuck is wrong with people, man?
	What the fuck is wrong with people?
	This is back to my mom when I put the cup of water on a dresser and it left that little ring because I didn't know.
	I didn't know about coasters. I was a little kid, right?
	And she beat the shit out of me, right?
	And your dad is, like, forcing you to eat three-quarters of a bar of soap, which, you know, can be pretty bad for you, right?
	And humiliating and bullying you because of a scratch on a piece of fucking wood.
	I don't... I don't...
	I genuinely do not know what the fuck is wrong with people.
	It's a scratch on a piece of wood, for fuck's sakes.
	Who cares? Who cares?
	Well, and, you know, what makes it worse is I wanted to play pool because I wanted to play with my dad.
	Yeah, of course. Oh, okay.
	He didn't play ping pong, but he liked to play pool, so you want...
	Oh, okay. Oh, my God. So you want to spend quality time with your dad, and you end up with this Niagara of soap down your throat.
	Yeah, I... What the fuck, man?
	It's so weird. You know, kids do this stuff.
	And sometimes they'll do this stuff, like my daughter was moving something on the console, and I said, be careful, and she knocked an Xbox, or I can't remember, she knocked something off.
	Yeah, and it gouged the shit out of the hardwood when it landed, right?
	And, you know, of course you feel this, oh my god, I have power.
	I even told her to be careful.
	And what do I care about the fucking hardwood?
	What do I care about the hardwood?
	I mean, it's not like I don't care.
	Like, I'll just go skating on it.
	I mean, I get it, right? It's nice to have some decent stuff around, right?
	But why would I hurt my daughter Because she put a dent in some dead wood.
	Like, the fuck, right?
	It's so deranged.
	Like, okay, let me ask you this.
	Where's that pool table now? It's torn down.
	I don't even know where it's at. Oh, I think one of my stepbrothers has it now.
	It's not even assembled. Oh, so it's in some fucking basement, some garage in pieces, right?
	Yeah. Yeah, it's great, right?
	It's great. So your dad perhaps irreparably harmed his relationship with you over some piece of fucking wood that's sitting in a basement doing nothing, right?
	Well, and it's even worse because he brags about that to this day.
	What does he say? You know, putting in blue-collar trade, it's not uncommon to hear this stuff, but, you know, he talks about the time he made me eat a bar of soap, and fucking most people in the trade have heard the story, because my particular corner of the industry is quite small.
	Okay, so just tap your mic because it's crackling again.
	Be your dad telling me this story.
	You know, your dad, I'm just some asshole across the table at the Legion or wherever, right?
	And we're having some beers, and how does he tell the story?
	What's the story? I don't know how it ever comes up in the story, in the conversation, but he's like, you know, I had him, I ate the bar of soap one time because I caught him lying to me.
	You know, taught him to never lie again.
	Something like that. Right.
	Right, you know, quick fucking question, if you don't mind.
	Did your father make a promise to your mother until death do you part for better or for worse in sickness and in health?
	He considers himself a Christian, so I bet he did.
	Of course he did, right? That's a pretty important promise, wouldn't you say?
	Yes. Right.
	Did... Did that promise get kept in his marriage?
	No. Now, did he, you know, when his wife said, I'm leaving you, did he say, oh no, this is a really important promise, much more important than a piece of wood that's going to end up in a basement somewhere 30 years from now, 25 years from now.
	So, you know...
	Sorry, honey, I'm going to have to wash your mouth out with soap because you lied to me about staying with me.
	Like, we got into this marriage, we had kids because we made a vow and a commitment to each other under God to be together until the end of our lives.
	A solemn vow on our very souls and the health and welfare of our children depends upon us keeping this vow So, funny story, turns out your dad's a fucking tough guy when it comes to bullying a little kid.
	But his wife breaks a promise to him.
	And he ain't washing her mouth out with soap.
	Why? Because she called the cops.
	He's a tough guy.
	I mean, I hear that story.
	And my first question is, holy shit, dude.
	You washed your kid's mouth out with soap because he lied to you?
	What about when your wife left you and broke her vows?
	What did you do with that? Uh, nothing.
	I got another story then.
	Hit me. Well, you know what I mean.
	Right. I found out, what, back in 2012?
	Hey, wait, tap your mic, tap your mic.
	I'm sorry, Steph. It's alright.
	Don't sweat it. It doesn't matter. Just keep going with the story.
	I just don't want to be distracted from the crackle.
	Go ahead. I found out that I think my dad told me when I was, I apprenticed under him for a very short time.
	It was like four or six months.
	But he told me one day when we stopped at the bank, I'm like, what are you doing at this bank?
	This isn't your bank. And he's like, oh, yeah, your mother, referring to my stepmom, put me in debt about 100K. What now?
	She put him in debt about $100,000?
	Yeah, and never told him.
	Sidious is... How do you do that?
	Did she run the finances?
	She felt guilty about what happened to her oldest son and was paying a shit ton of money for his kids, all of his kids he's had out of wedlock, and his prison stuff, his lawyer fees, his alcohol treatment.
	She'd been pouring money into him without telling the family.
	Did she make money?
	Did she have money? No, no.
	Oh, so she felt guilty so your dad had to pay.
	Right. Oh, isn't that really, really the quintessence of female responsibility?
	I feel bad, so I'm going to steal from you.
	And your kids.
	Because that's money that you could end up inheriting, right?
	Yeah. Or could have.
	So she lied to him and stole $100,000 from him.
	You know, I'm no mathematician, but it seems to me that could buy a fuckton of pool tables, right?
	What is it, two grand for a pool table?
	So we're talking 50 pool tables?
	Yeah, 50 entire pool tables versus one tiny little scratch.
	So he lies.
	Now, does he then take her to court?
	Does he get her punished? Does he wash her mouth out with soap?
	No! No!
	Even though repairing your damage, you know, a little bit of fucking wood glue, you know, buff it up a little, you know, it's 20 minutes and maybe 10 bucks to fix your shit.
	10 bucks, $100,000.
	You know, so the tough guy, oh, I made my kid wash his mouth out with soap because lying is just so bad.
	Oh, your wife stole $100,000 from you.
	What did you do? Nothing, because I'm a tough guy.
	I'll bully kids, but you see, my wife, she's scary.
	I can't tell you the contempt I have.
	I can't even tell you.
	Yeah, he stayed with her. Of course.
	Paid it all off. Worked extra overtime to pay it off.
	Right. Right.
	Right. And she still complains.
	Didn't take it to the cops.
	Didn't demand she get a job.
	Nothing like that, right? And he brought this abusive woman into your life, right?
	And kept her there. Yeah.
	Does he think of himself as a good dad?
	Yes, he does. On what grounds would he consider himself a good dad?
	I provide it! No, you wanted to get away from your wife.
	Yes. The guy's probably relieved that she put him in.
	Oh, I'm so happy you put me in debt, honey, because now I get to spend more time away from you paying it off.
	That's why I'm not so mad.
	Oh, thank God. Please put me in debt more so I can spend more time away from you.
	Yeah. He grew up extremely poor, like impoverished, like had an outhouse at one time.
	You know, no bathroom in the house.
	So he always tells the story that, you know, he decided that he had so many Christmases without presents and stuff.
	Because, of course, he came from a single mother house.
	She was a truck driver, one of the first female truck drivers in the country.
	She was crazy, my grandmother.
	But... He said he would never, ever have his kids go without stuff ever again.
	And so he used that, he says, to push himself to work hard and get where he was because he went through night school to get his position, worked full-time while doing all that, and has poured everything into his work, essentially, and neglected, I would argue, everything else.
	Yeah, I... I don't know what to say, man.
	I mean... People who consider themselves good parents, they never actually ask their kids what the kids want.
	I don't know what the hell they're talking about.
	No, I... Yeah, they never ask me anything.
	Ever. Yeah, like, what do you want?
	I mean, what would make you happy, right?
	What... You know, I'm a service provider to my daughter.
	I'm a service provider to you in this conversation, right?
	People support me in this show.
	And after this call, we're going to have a conversation about modding, moderating and all that, which is important because that's a service provision as well.
	But, you know, the idea that I'm a good dad.
	It's like you never asked me what I wanted as a kid.
	Doesn't matter. I'm a good dad because it's all about me.
	I just want to say I'm a good dad.
	Okay. Well, um...
	By what standard compared to what?
	Well, I grew up poor and my kids had stuff.
	It's like, did they have the stuff they wanted?
	Did they have your company?
	Did they have your love? Did they have your engagement?
	No, but I washed his mouth out with soap when he told an innocuous lie while I worked to cover up much bigger lies that have been told to me by the adults in my life.
	People who bully children, I mean, come on.
	It's the most despicable, cowardly thing that there is.
	You know, I'd have respect for your dad if he's like, oh yeah, when your mom told me she was going to leave me, I washed her mouth out with soap.
	Okay, not good, but at least it's consistent.
	Okay. But it's like, oh no, the kids who are helpless?
	Oh yeah, I'll totally bully them when they cross me.
	Women who lie to me and steal $100,000 from me?
	Oh yeah, no, I'm not going to say anything to them.
	To assault and bully children for nothing.
	For accidents. You know, see, here's what your stepmom should have done, right?
	With regards to the pool table.
	Here's what your stepmom should have done.
	Your stepmom should have come to your defense.
	Do you know why? No.
	Because your stepmom had one big complaint, which was nobody does what?
	I'm sorry, I don't know.
	You said this to me earlier.
	Sorry, I'm being a bit opaque.
	So you said that one of the things that your stepmom would get really angry about is she'd say, well, nobody helps me.
	Nobody helps out around here.
	Right. I've got to do it all myself, right?
	Right. Now, you wanted people to help you lift the ping pong table off the pool table, right?
	Mm-hmm. But nobody did, right?
	No. So, when this stupid little scratch occurred on the pool table, your stepmom should have said, I know exactly how you feel.
	You wanted people to help you and they didn't, and that's been my big complaint, so I really understand where you're coming from.
	Yes.
	But she didn't.
	So, of course, you have to be something other than who you are for people to be interested in you, right?
	Of course it's got to be you plus alcohol, you plus charisma, you plus parties, you plus all of the amazing manipulations that you can make.
	Of course you've got to put on a big giant show for people to be interested in you, to care about you, to find you of value.
	It can't just be you.
	It's got to be U+. I talked about this in the Robin Williams video from years ago.
	What if you don't have a show to put on?
	This is a big question for everyone.
	What if you don't have a show?
	When you're at your raw, unadulterated self.
	What if you can't offer money or sex or status or approval or parties?
	What if you can't offer any of that to people?
	What if some god or some devil or some benevolent philosophical angel scrubbed all of that from your vocabulary and you were not able to buy anyone's attention with anything other than the bare forked animal of your essential self?
	What if you couldn't tell jokes?
	What if you couldn't provide insights?
	What if you just were there?
	Now, I get, if you're in a coma, oh, you're essential.
	I'm not saying you can't speak.
	But what if it's just you?
	Is that enough? Is that interesting?
	Well, when we're told...
	For the first 20 years of her life.
	You are not interesting.
	You have no value.
	You are an annoyance.
	You are bad.
	You are wrong. You are broken.
	And I'm going to fix you by hitting you, or yelling at you, or calling you names.
	Your opinions don't matter.
	Your choices don't matter. Your perspectives don't matter.
	You don't matter.
	You are here to serve my convenience.
	And anytime you don't, I'm going to hit you like a half-broken television hoping to get a better picture.
	You damn well please me, or I will fuck you up.
	And, by the way, Probably eight times out of ten, it's going to be kind of impossible to please me, because I'm moody as fuck.
	And what pleased me yesterday is going to annoy the shit out of me today.
	And what annoyed me yesterday, I will find funny today.
	And if you make a mistake, sometimes I'll laugh, sometimes I'll get enraged, sometimes I'll ignore it.
	There's no way to know!
	Because I have all of the consistency of a guy trying to paint a portrait while having an epileptic attack.
	And you will end up molding yourself so completely around me that you will have to become water, clear, tasteless, odorless, invisible, tasteless, odorless, invisible, and with no shape of your own.
	Thank you.
	And then, you know what I'm going to do?
	I'm going to bowl you out into the world.
	Except, you're not a bowling ball.
	I'm just basically going to pour a pitcher of water out onto the bowling lane.
	Because you don't have any shape.
	I wouldn't let you have any shape.
	Any shape you had was an offense under mine eyes.
	Now, pour you out onto the bowling alley.
	And then, good luck bowling.
	Good luck knocking down some pins.
	Good luck having a life.
	I turned you into a ghost.
	I loosed you on the world. And you've got to go get people interested in you.
	You've got to get people to find you of value.
	You've got to get women to want to date you.
	You've got to get people to want to employ you.
	You've got to get friends who want to spend time with you.
	But you kind of don't exist because I smashed you into your component atoms or prevented them from forming in the first place.
	So now you're out there in the world.
	And because I hollered you out from the inside, You gotta put on one fucking hell of a show, one hell of a show, to get people interested in you.
	Because on your own, without the show, without the booze, without the parties, without the tits, without the abs, without the looks, you're nothing.
	And the more you put on a show, The more you're proving me right.
	The more glitter and moves and charisma that you put on, the more you're absolutely affirming that I was totally right in my belief that you're nothing.
	The more you fight to materialize, the more you disappear inside.
	The more show you put on, the less you are there.
	And the more success you have in your show, the worse it will be when you hit 30.
	Now, the reality is, my friend, you're worth everything.
	You're worth everything. All you have to do is look at yourself through the eyes of your son.
	You are a God who strides the entire world from horizon to horizon.
	You know everything.
	You're infinitely strong.
	You're infinitely wise.
	You're infinitely knowledgeable.
	He looks up to you in a way that we can only mirror by thinking of God himself.
	And that's the battle.
	It's between your father and your son.
	And your father is at one end saying, you're nothing.
	And your son is at the other saying, dad, you are everything.
	And your dad wants you to drink.
	And your son wants you sober.
	And your wife is probably halfway between the two.
	And so are you.
	Drink, alcohol, addiction, erases you.
	It erases you.
	And if your abusive parents are not in your life, you will substitute their erasure of you with alcohol's erasure of you.
	Whether you don't exist because your parents are abusive or you don't exist because you're drunk, the non-existence that serves your parents and destroys you still manifests.
	And to a much smaller degree, I mean, I've gone through this over this last year.
	From a vast audience, it's much shrunken.
	Going out and doing documentaries and confronting people in public places and staring down communist military police and taking the tear gas, I have been home.
	From half a million on Twitter, a million on YouTube, can get a couple of hundred people on a live stream.
	Who am I without the audience?
	Who are you without the alcohol?
	I built that audience up for 15 years.
	Poof. Gone.
	How many people followed me?
	Not many. How many people are going to be interested in you?
	Without the show, without the charisma, without the alcohol, without the provision of manic energy at the expense of your health and future and capacity for intimacy.
	Well, the whole point of life is to manifest yourself before you die.
	Because sure as shit, when you're gone, you can't be there.
	there.
	You can't manifest.
	You can't exist.
	I am more real to myself without an audience.
	Thank you.
	And you will be more real to yourself and those around you without the alcohol.
	And the alcohol is your father and your mother and your stepmother all saying to you at the same time, you better not fucking exist.
	Because if you exist in our minds, we then have to have empathy and have to care about you.
	And we can't do that.
	We miss the window.
	We miss the growth. We miss the opportunity.
	We can no more develop empathy than you can grow a fucking trunk like an elephant.
	You have to non-exist so that our own deficiencies don't become real to us.
	Our own non-existence can't be made real to us, so we have to erase everyone around us.
	Thank you.
	And that's how we dominate our own death, spiritually.
	And every time you take a drink, you're pissing on the fire of your own existence and the necessary bond that your son needs to have with you. you're pissing on the fire of your own existence and And you're letting them win, and the childhood never ends, and the non-existence continues, and every time you shame yourself by putting on a show,
	or you echo your parents shaming of you for putting on a show, or you echo your parents shaming of you for putting on a show, you simply affirm the emptiness afflicted on you by
	And I say this with no shred of criticism, no shred of negativity, with all the love for this situation that I have, which is considerable heartfelt, personal, and immense.
	That what you have done to drag your true self, your capacity for authenticity, what you have done to drag the wounded self of your origins through this fucked up world and arrive at this conversation is heroic beyond words.
	I'm pretty good with words. I cannot express that one.
	I cannot. There's no metal big enough.
	There's no orchestra loud enough.
	There's no fireworks show dazzling enough.
	To honor the respect that I have for you dragging this casualty to this hospital.
	And to have this conversation.
	Not just one-on-one.
	But for the world.
	It's heroic.
	And it means, fundamentally, if you want to, you've won.
	You've won. You get the happy life.
	You get the health.
	You get the connection. You get the love.
	You get the parenting. You get the fatherhood.
	And you've won.
	You've won so completely.
	That if you look at the alcohol as the poison being fed to you, you didn't get mother's milk.
	You got apple juice, which is sugary, useless shit.
	You didn't get mother's milk.
	You got apple juice. You didn't get parenting.
	Now you get alcohol.
	It's the same as the apple juice.
	Just useless, destructive shit.
	Fruit juice is garbage.
	Alcohol is garbage. And it's no substitute for love and you'll never get that love because they have no capacity to love.
	You can't harm people that much and ever end up loving yourself, let alone others.
	So you'll never get that love.
	And now you're in the incredible position of providing what you did not receive.
	There's nothing more powerful in life than giving a virtue you never received.
	Because if you give a virtue that you already received, that's good.
	That's a good thing to do.
	It's a fine thing to do. But it's kind of like donating money you inherited.
	You didn't earn it. But it's good to give it if you can afford it.
	And it's to a good cause.
	But to give something To your son that you did not receive for yourself is the most incredible act of personal and planetary healing that can be conceived of.
	To create a virtue out of nothing is the essence of civilization.
	It's why we have everything that is worth having.
	Someone created a virtue out of nothing.
	And you are forced to create a virtue out of nothing, which means you fully own it, it's fully yours, and it's fully manifest.
	You didn't inherit it.
	It wasn't handed to you.
	In fact, the counter-signaling to the virtue that we talk about here is legion across the world.
	The amount that we get attacked for the simple virtues of holding people to their public statements.
	We care about children.
	We love children. Violence is a bad way to solve problems.
	Abuse is a bad way to solve problems.
	Okay, let's make that universal.
	Ah! Cult leader!
	Fuck them, right? Yeah.
	So you have...
	An amazing personality and opportunity to provide what you never received.
	It is incredible.
	It's like when I was a little kid, I remember talking to a guy who was an engineer.
	I was in the backseat of a car.
	I was six years old in Africa with a bunch of my dad's friends.
	We were coming back from Kenya National Park, something like that.
	And they were talking about electricity generation.
	And I remember saying, and even if I said, as I said, it didn't make much sense to me, but I remember saying, well, if you could find a way to get an electric, a plant that ran on electricity to produce more electricity, that would solve a lot of problems.
	And the guy, he kind of rolled his eyes and he said, yeah, but that means the output is bigger than the input, which is not possible, blah, blah, blah, right?
	Okay, so physically that's impossible.
	You can't give what you didn't get.
	You can't release kinetic energy if you've never accumulated kinetic energy.
	But you can create a virtue you never received.
	You can create a virtue you never received, which is like snapping your fingers and having fucking Atlantis rise from the ocean.
	And the transmitting of a virtue you never received means manifesting yourself in the image of truth and integrity in a way that is immensely dangerous to all the power structures the world over.
	I mean, there's the personal and then there's the political, right?
	And it's not just your parents, it's society as a whole.
	You know, why do they want us drugged out and stupid on carbs and sugar and Plastic cardboard food that we have to stuff down our gullets because mommy wanted to go and earn two bucks an hour at the customer complaints department at the local mall.
	Why did they want us fapping rather than breeding?
	Why did they want us addicted to video games rather than wisdom?
	It's not just your parents. Your parents are part of a larger machinery that empties out human beings in return for obedience.
	You know, we used to be serfs chained to land.
	Now, we're serfs chained to words, to propaganda.
	We can't do anything.
	We can't be real.
	Truth will get you punished.
	Reality kills. Honesty destroys.
	And to break this cycle is not just personal.
	It is to create a doorway to the future through which your son can pass and survive.
	Survive at a spiritual level, at a self-identity level.
	You can, by putting down the drink, by talking things over with your wife, by committing to being honest.
	No show. No show.
	No bullshit. No noise.
	No fucking laser lights.
	No disco balls.
	No show.
	Then by being real, you can be the portal through which your son can sail through to a world where he can survive without the same struggles that you've had to have just in order to survive.
	And it doesn't make any of the terrible things that happen to you good.
	But by God, it gets the most gold out of the outhouse that is humanly possible.
	Fuck the past.
	Thank you.
	Be honest. Be real.
	In the now. That is a victory.
	It doesn't just light up your sun's eyes.
	Enough of us do it.
	It lights up the whole fucking planet.
	Can you do a no-show life?
	Sorry, what's that, Steph?
	Tell me what you're thinking. What are you feeling?
	I'm just thinking about my son and all the things I want to do, all the things I want to learn with him.
	Like, I didn't have any of that.
	I was just this object in the house.
	I don't want to do that to him.
	And I know that's what the drinking is going to do.
	Yeah. That's what the machine wants you to do.
	So that your son can turn into a machine like your father.
	And you were worse.
	You weren't even treated as an object.
	This is what pisses me off about your father.
	See, you know what was an object was the fucking pool table.
	And he protected the pool table at your expense.
	If you had been an object, you'd have been treated infinitely better.
	Do you see what I mean?
	If your father had protected you as much as he protected that useless fucking pool table, You would have been infinitely better off.
	If my mom had protected me as much as she protected that stupid fucking dresser.
	We as children, my friend, we could only aspire to be objects, to be things, to be furniture and pool tables and dressers.
	We could only aspire to be car doors.
	Can you imagine if you'd put...
	A ding in your father's car door?
	We could only aspire and dream of the day when we might be treated as an inanimate object, to be protected and shielded.
	Oh, what I wouldn't have given to be a piece of furniture In my mother's house.
	Oh, God, that would have been fantastic.
	Oh, my God.
	To have been a plate? Because if you chipped a plate, you got beaten up.
	To have been a plate would have been a near infinite step up.
	Do you see? We could only dream of being protected like objects.
	We were the opposite of what was.
	We were the opposite of existence.
	And if we had been protected the way that pool tables and dressers had been protected, well, God, my God, my God, can you imagine what it would have been like can you imagine what it would have been like to be as respected and loved and protected as a pool table?
	That would have been amazing.
	My father loves his damn work too much.
	I wish I could be his work.
	Your father doesn't love anything, my friend.
	Your father doesn't love anything.
	He doesn't love his work.
	You know, you understand his work is your alcohol.
	His work is his show.
	Right. It's how he provides value.
	I paid for things. I worked.
	Put a roof over your head.
	Hey man, that soap that I stuffed down your fucking throat wasn't going to buy itself.
	I didn't steal that.
	I mean, I stole your childhood.
	I stole your existence and your soul.
	But I didn't steal the soap that I abused you with.
	I paid for that.
	You know, the words no show are really powerful.
	Because it means two things, right?
	No, there's no show.
	And no-show, hey, he's a no-show.
	What does that mean? You're throwing a party, somebody's a no-show.
	What does that mean? I'm sorry, I don't know.
	If you're throwing a party, and Bob's a no-show, what does that mean?
	He's not there. He's not there.
	Isn't that the big fear?
	No-show is no-show.
	No show, there's no show, means no show, no existence, not there.
	That we're nothing without the show.
	We're nothing without the charisma.
	We're nothing without the alcohol.
	We're nothing without the parties. And this is the amazing opportunity that children give us, right?
	It's the amazing opportunity.
	Kids don't care about the show.
	They don't care about the show.
	They don't want the show.
	How well does charisma work on your son?
	Seriously. That doesn't work at all.
	Doesn't work at all. He doesn't care.
	You got a six month old baby.
	How much does he care about the shininess of his mother's pumps?
	I don't mean breast pumps.
	I mean shoe pumps. Like their shoes.
	Right. He doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit.
	Mommy got her hair done.
	Don't care. Missed you when you were gone.
	Thought you might have been dead. Kind of traumatized me.
	Don't care about your hair color. How much does my daughter care that I'm bald?
	None. Doesn't care at all.
	doesn't care at all.
	Kids strip us down to the no-show part of us.
	And that's really hard.
	Because if we're not entertaining...
	who the hell are we?
	You know, you ever want to really be depressed?
	Go chat with a comedian on his day off.
	You know, this makes a lot of sense looking at it from this perspective, at least for my father's life, because seeing him away from his work Is it different him than when he's out there putting on the show when I apprenticed under him?
	I saw it in full action.
	What did you see? I saw the whole show he put on.
	How everything changes and it's the same fucking thing I do.
	Right. And not only did I follow, I'm his son, I followed in his career path.
	And I do the same thing.
	As you say, you're very good at sales, right?
	You know how to mold yourself into what people want.
	Right. Except it doesn't work with your son.
	No. You can't manipulate your toddler, right?
	No. I mean, I guess you could give them candy or whatever, right?
	But, you know, certainly, you know, when they're babies, you can't manipulate anything.
	They're very... And babies have no show.
	Right? Here's the thing.
	Babies and toddlers, they have no show.
	I mean, if they have a show, if toddlers have a show, it's because they're really in a difficult environment, right?
	And they've got to try and find a way to survive.
	But, you know, I'm sure you're into peaceful parenting.
	So you're not bullying or yelling at or threatening your son.
	So he's got no show.
	Now, here's the thing. You love him because he has no show.
	If he had a show, that would be a sign that you were a bad parent, right?
	Right. So you love him for his lack of artifice, his lack of manipulation, his genuine, deep authenticity.
	You love him for that.
	And you're like, well, no, for me to be loved, I've got to put on a show, but I love my son because there's no show.
	It's like, hello, crossed wire as much?
	Can't you, I mean, wouldn't it be great to be like your son?
	Absolutely. Yeah, no show.
	Ah, but if I have no show, people won't care about me.
	People won't love me.
	People won't be interested in me.
	Well, that's kind of true.
	But not in the way we think.
	So it is true that a lot of people, most people, won't be interested in us if we don't put on a show, right?
	But we don't want those people anyway.
	No show is a great shield for empty people.
	it keeps them away it repels them and we don't know why your mom left your dad because your dad sure as hell did not give up on his addictions or his show or his emptiness If he had, he wouldn't have married your freak nightmare of a stepmom.
	Right. When you achieve authenticity, you don't go and say, oh, great, I think I'm going to get married to a woman who was married to a pedophile and I'm going to take on her kids because that's just going to be great.
	Yeah. When I had the conversation with the whole family about my oldest stepbrother and all that stuff blew up, I was four hours just pissed off trying to explain it to my dad.
	And I remember just this like half dead look in his eyes like he just didn't understand.
	Oh no, he understood.
	He was just plain possum, right?
	He's got rubber bones. No, and here's the thing too.
	Do you know how healing it would have been for your stepbrother, for the family to have acknowledged his pain?
	And they're like, nope, we're not going to heal him.
	Nope, screw him.
	Nope, he can continue to suffer.
	Nope, nope, nope. It's all about our self-protection in the moment to hell with what happens to other people.
	Yeah. It's murderous.
	You understand? It's a murderous impulse to withhold salvation from someone who's going through intense agony for the sake of your own selfishness.
	Pleasure. Well, of course, that's addiction, right?
	Withholding the salvation of others for your own selfish pleasure.
	That's you with the drinking, that's them with the withholding of honesty about his abuse.
	But yeah, your son is a great gift to you, and you are a great gift to him.
	Thank you.
	You know, when you're sitting there with a kid...
	You know, I love in the morning, just, you know, sitting on the chair by my daughter's bed, just chatting.
	Just chatting.
	Just, hey, good morning.
	How you doing? What do you want to do today?
	Do you have any dreams? Here's what I thought about.
	I did a great show last night.
	This is what I talked about. Just chatting.
	This may seem stupid, but how did you ever figure out, I mean, I don't even know what is normal, what to talk to people about.
	Oh yeah, that's easy. No, that's easy, man.
	Whatever you miss the most is what is normal.
	Whatever breaks your heart the most.
	You've got people in the chat here bawling their eyes out.
	I sympathize, man. Whatever you miss the most is what is normal.
	Whatever you were the saddest about not getting as a child is the good.
	No, I think that makes sense.
	One thing I've done with my son since he was born was every day ask him how his sleep was, even though he doesn't know.
	I just want to get in a good habit of making sure I take him into account.
	Of course. Of course.
	Because I can't even do that with my wife.
	I mean, I'm so distanced and focused on my show.
	I don't even consider her half the time, or most of the time.
	Yes, and your wife is sort of a separate category because she has a show of her own and she obviously likes her show.
	Sorry, she likes your show.
	Obviously, to be the partner of the life of the party is pretty high status because you're a total alpha in that situation, right?
	Right. So you're like James Bond in that situation and obviously she likes that.
	And here's the funny thing.
	I'll tell you this straight up, right?
	Well, let me ask you this. And ask this to the people in the chat, too.
	Ask this to the people in the chat.
	Okay, so we say, oh, I'm doing a show.
	This is a show. Let me ask you this.
	It's a leading question, and you're perfectly free to disagree with me.
	And I'll tell you what I think. What I do, particularly in these conversations, is the least show, show there is.
	It's the least show-show that exists.
	I'm not trying to do a show here.
	I'm not trying to put on an act.
	I'm not trying to manipulate.
	And tell me if that's a misinterpretation on my part or if something's not correct about that.
	But I've always kind of aimed at these kinds of conversations.
	Simple straight conversation, the least show, show that there is.
	No. So James says, I don't think there's any bullshit at all.
	And I appreciate that. Now, you can have a show that's not bullshit, but I'm not putting on an act here.
	I'm not faking anything.
	I don't have my voice, FM voice, you know, like the announcer voice, you know, the guys who race through those APR financing things at the end of used car sales and so on, anything like that.
	But this is just – this is straight conversation, right?
	And so I always say, oh, I have a show.
	I say, oh, I have a show tonight.
	Oh, I did a show last night.
	It's not a show. It's not a show.
	And if I ever feel like it does become a show, like I'm doing something for a fact or I'm trying to control something or I'm trying to get an impression across or I'm trying to get someone to feel something, if I ever feel like I'm manipulating, I will take a breath and I'm like, no, no, no, recommit to just, you know, straight up honesty, right? And so that's what's wild about, I think, what happens here in these conversations.
	It's the least show show there is.
	In fact, it's really the opposite of a show because this is a public forum discussion where there's no show.
	You know, when you think of, I don't know, no hate on any of these guys, right?
	If you think of people like, I don't know, Tucker Carlson and so on, right?
	A good presenter.
	But you couldn't think of sitting across Tucker Carlson at dinner and having him talk to you the way that he talks to the camera.
	Does that sort of make sense? Right.
	And it would be like you couldn't imagine sitting across from Rachel Maddow and having her do all those weird faces or Brian Stelter or like any of these guys who do shows or even Dr.
	Phil, right? You couldn't imagine him talking to like you across the table the way that he talks to the camera, right?
	And I've always sort of tried to aim to, okay, let's just have a conversation, right?
	Which is kind of spontaneous.
	I don't want it to be, like, completely separate from if we were just having a conversation.
	That would be kind of strange, right?
	With the Dr. Phil thing or, like, I don't know if it's anywhere close to what we...
	But it's just...
	I want to...
	I don't want to... It's like I want to model the least show-show there is, or I want to...
	Model the non-show aspect of human nature?
	Because I'm really not trying to put on a show.
	I'm not trying to impress people.
	I'm not trying to be cool.
	I know when I'd give a good speech or whatever, but I would give that speech if we were face-to-face.
	I give these speeches to myself.
	I talk about this way with friends, with family.
	To pull down artifice, to not have an act.
	It's really important.
	And the more that the show spread and spreads and the more people don't have acts, you understand, we are destroying the currency of falsehood.
	Because for your father and your mother, having an act, having bullshit, It was totally fine.
	They got married, they had kids, they had jobs, because bullshit and abuse and falsehood and false self, that is the currency of the world.
	Prefabricated identities, prefabbed personalities, you know, clichés, fedora wearer, the leftist with blue hair, the Conservative with the gut and the gun, right? Like all of these prefabricated identities, that is the currency of the world.
	And when that currency reigns, our currency devalues.
	When our currency gains in value, their currency goes down in value and people don't want to lose their money.
	They don't want to lose their currency.
	They don't want to lose their value in the world.
	And the fact that this is the least show show that there is and ever will be, I think, Is part of the peculiar power that we have here and also part of, again, the attacks, the hostility, is authenticity threatens everything.
	I mean, you saw that when you brought the truth of your stepbrother's rape as a child or molestation as a child.
	You brought that truth, that honesty, that reality to your family.
	What happened? The denial.
	You threatened the whole structure.
	Yeah. The whole structure.
	And people, you know, and God bless them in many ways, right?
	But people think, oh, I'm going to go march in the street and I'm going to wave placards and that's going to change things.
	You know, it's really not.
	Really. It's not a bad thing to do, and it's fine.
	You can meet people. You can get some messages out.
	But to be honest and authentic and curious and real, because all show is fear.
	The show is fear.
	You know that. That's why you're facing this depression, right?
	Right. Who the fuck am I if I'm not impressing people?
	Who the fuck am I? If I'm just me.
	If there's no show.
	The fundamental addiction is to the show.
	You're absolutely right.
	My work the last month and a half has been bad.
	Well, the show's killing me.
	The show's not working.
	The show's fucking killing you.
	That's why we're talking now, not tomorrow.
	I want you to be alive!
	Right? There's a show tomorrow.
	Could have booked you in there, talked to you tonight.
	The show's killing you, man.
	Yeah. Isn't it?
	I mean, tell me if I'm stating things too far.
	But your health, your psychology, your relationships, your happiness, your productivity, like, it's fallen down, isn't it?
	Yeah, all of it. All of it.
	Because your true self is seeing a fucking crack in the sky, man.
	Or a crack in the roof.
	We're all born alive and we're fucking buried.
	We're just buried.
	We're buried in bullshit.
	We're buried in lies. We're buried in propaganda.
	We're buried in defenses. We're buried in abuse.
	We're all born and we're just buried.
	And when we're kids, the coffin is fucking five miles under the earth.
	It's just five miles under the earth.
	And it's like, you don't look for cracks of sunlight when you're five miles under the earth.
	And then this show comes along and other things come along and we float up and we float up and we float up.
	We start to smell something different.
	We're not surrounded by rot and death and magma and bodies.
	And we float up and we float up.
	And eventually we float to the surface of the world.
	And then there's a couple of thumping sounds and A little axe head comes through the top and suddenly our eyes sting like shit because we can see the sky for the first time from five miles under the earth, buried there by history, personal, political, cultural.
	We float to the surface of the world.
	Three axe blows, three podcasts, and our eyes water, whiter eyes water because we see light for the first time.
	And when we see light for the first time, we'll scratch the shit out of our hands to get out, right?
	To get out into the air.
	So Fauci can hand us a mask.
	Right? We get out into the air.
	So, your life is falling apart, I think, because you want out.
	You want out of the show.
	You want out of the lies. You want out of the manipulation.
	You want out of the Constant reaffirmation that you're not good enough, that you're not important, that you're not interesting, that happens every single time you put on the show and every single time you drink, to be something other than who you are in order to bear your own existence.
	Because you see cracks in the roof of the coffin.
	And your son needs you because he's up there, right?
	You either go up to him or you've got to pull him down to you.
	But you can't parent from where you are, I think.
	And you don't want to pull him down to you.
	That's letting your dad and history and death win, right?
	You've got to get up to where he is, right?
	I can't imagine hurting him, and that's what's also bringing me here.
	Right, right.
	It's not his fault you had an asshole for dad.
	And dead-eyed bitches for moms and stepmoms.
	It's not his fault.
	He's pure. He's innocent.
	He's got no responsibility for history.
	He didn't do it to you.
	And because he didn't do it to you, he shouldn't suffer for it, right?
	My daughter never beat me up.
	My daughter never screamed names at me.
	My daughter never pounded my head against the door.
	My daughter never threw knives at me.
	Why would she... Suffer one bit for what she never did.
	Unjust punishment is the root of most dysfunction.
	I mean, if I punish her, even by not being available, I'm not much better than my mom.
	And even if one of my big motivations when I was younger was just wanting to feel superior to my mom, Okay, that's, hey, whatever gets you there, man.
	It's like the coach says, whatever gets that goal in the net.
	Or whatever gets that ball in the net.
	But it's not his fault.
	And he shouldn't be punished at all, right?
	Right. And freedom from the fists of your father is refusing anything but the best for your son.
	That's what frees us.
	I honestly cannot remember the last time I thought of my mother.
	That's freedom, you understand.
	I'm not avoiding thoughts of her.
	But that's freedom.
	Because I have used every piece of violence she ever gave me to create the cathedral of peace that is my life.
	You know, it's what Jesus says.
	You beat your swords into plowshares.
	I don't know what a plowshare is exactly, but it sounds pretty good.
	It certainly sounds better than a sword, right?
	But you take everything that was done unto you and you flip it and you reverse it and you've got a sure guide as to how to be best for your son.
	It's perfect. You don't have to learn a new language.
	You just have to reverse.
	Your father was distant, you be close.
	Your father was violent, you be peaceful.
	Your father abused, you be curious.
	Your father punished, you ask.
	He's taught you everything that you need to know to be a fantastic parent.
	It's just on the flip side of fuck him.
	And you got to stop punishing yourself.
	Because, you understand, alcohol is a form of self-punishment, right?
	Absolutely. Yeah.
	You've got to stop punishing yourself.
	It wasn't your fault.
	It wasn't your fault. That your dad treated you this way, that your mom treated you this way, that your stepmom treated you this way.
	It's not your fault. They made their choices and they are 100% responsible for those choices.
	And their choices are deep in the rear view.
	They can't change them. They can't go back and be good parents now.
	People say, my mom, my dad, it's like, to me, after 18, eh, I don't know.
	Being a parent to a 20-year-old is nothing at all like being a parent to a two-year-old or a two-month-old or a two-day-old.
	I mean, they're not even in the same category to me.
	I mean, of course, you could still use the word, you know, whatever, but people say my mom and my dad when they're 30, and it's like, eh.
	I know we have to have the same word because it's the same biological relationship, but it's just not the same.
	So, You will find that being there for your son and being authentic with him is going to be hell.
	I'm not going to lie. I'm like, oh, it's going to be wonderful because you're a smart man and if it was wonderful, you wouldn't be calling, right?
	Yeah. It's going to be hell because everything...
	This is the analogy that just popped into my head.
	Okay. So...
	What I'm saying is, okay, here's what you need to do, man.
	You need to leave your wallet at home.
	Leave every form of payment you have at home.
	You need to go to a Lamborghini dealership, man, and you need to order top of the line.
	Whatever there's like, $200,000 car, quarter million dollar car.
	I have no idea, right? You need to go order a top of the line car and you need to say, I'm going to drive out with this today.
	And you need to Say, I don't even need a test drive.
	I've done my research. I know exactly what I want.
	That red thing that looks like a putting-edge space shuttle suppository.
	That's the one that I want, right? Oh, that's $300,000.
	No problem. I'm telling you, go.
	Sign the paperwork. Sign the paperwork.
	You say, well, Steph, how the fuck am I going to pay for a $300,000 Lamborghini?
	And I say, you know what?
	It's easy. You just reach into your pocket and the money will be there.
	That's what it sounds like when I say, Go be a great parent.
	It's like, I don't have the currency, I don't have the savings, I don't have the experience, I don't have the mentoring, I don't have the training.
	And I'm saying, no, no, no, just reach into your pocket.
	The money will be there.
	I mean, if I was a financial advisor, that would be insane, right?
	It's magic! But it is real.
	It is true. Every instinct that you have to be a great parent is already there.
	You reach into your pocket. You can pay.
	You can be the best.
	Because you know what it's like to be ignored and to be excluded and to be punished.
	And you know all of that.
	And you know how painful it is.
	So just don't do it.
	Thank you.
	And it's not a whole lot more complicated than that.
	You've got to feel how painful it is.
	Of course, right? Because you've got to be authentic, right?
	But everything that hurt...
	You're like, we're... Okay, when was the last time you walked in a dark room and stubbed your toe?
	Like, hard. The other day, actually.
	Okay, and before that? No, I couldn't remember.
	It's been a while, right?
	Why? Because we don't do shit that hurts.
	We try and avoid that stuff, right?
	And so, when you feel the pain of your childhood, you're like, oh, I'm not going to do that.
	I mean, do you not think that I felt a flash of power and like after I said to my daughter, be careful, and she dropped something and dinged the shit out of the hardwood?
	You don't think I'm like, oh, oh, oh, I got power.
	Oh, I could really grind her down for this, right?
	Of course, we're human.
	We have experiences. We know the language, right?
	But I know what it's like for a parent To put stupid stuff above my happiness.
	Which is all stuff, pretty much, right?
	You know what it's like to have a pool table be infinitely more important to your father than your tender, trusting heart.
	Particularly burning because you wanted to play pool with the guy and nobody would help you.
	You know exactly what it's like to be parented badly.
	And I felt that flash of my mom in me.
	She holds out that apple, you know, like from the Garden of Eden.
	She holds out that apple. She tempts me.
	Oh, come on.
	You told her to be careful and she just dinged the shit out of the hardwood.
	Come on. Be me.
	Be me. You know exactly what to do to be me.
	It's like, yep, and now I know exactly what to do to not be you, bitch.
	Never put your child below stuff.
	You know exactly, because you know what it's like to be put below stuff.
	You know how awful it is.
	So just, you don't do it. You know your dad's going to be crooking his finger probably for the rest of your life.
	Off and on. Man, you got to work.
	You got to get to work.
	You got to be successful. You got to make money.
	Oh my God, something physical got damaged.
	You got to show that kid.
	Your kid lied to you.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guess what?
	Kids lie. It happens.
	Adults lie. It happens.
	You know, kids have never lied a country into starting a war in Iraq.
	Ever. But only the kids get punished.
	People who actually lie and start wars that kill a quarter million or 300,000 people.
	People who lie and get hundreds of thousands of people killed, you know what they get?
	They get fucking pensions and TV gigs.
	But kids who lie out of terror because they scratch a little piece of wood, they get punished like hell.
	I'll get mad at kids lying when fucking war criminals go to jail.
	But, you know, it's got nothing to do...
	I mean, it's all about power.
	It's got nothing to do with morals, right?
	Like, why, you know, why do I get banished from social media?
	And big organizations and people who push the fine people hoax, the most destructive lie ever unleashed in American politics.
	Half the country worships a guy who worships Hitler.
	This is the lie, right? They're all perfectly fine, right?
	Because they pick on me because I have no power relative to the large organizations, right?
	I'm a guy. I'm a dude, right?
	And, you know, they get mad at me, but I'll have entire articles written about what a bad guy I am.
	These big brave people, they don't pick on the Chinese Communist Party for facilitating the unleashing of a virus that's killed a million and a half people, give or take, because the Chinese Communist Party actually has power, whereas I'm a guy with a little studio in his house.
	It's nothing to do with ethics or morals.
	It's just power. It's bullying.
	It's all it is. It's all it is.
	You know how to be a perfect parent.
	You know how to be a great parent.
	You just, you know it. You just got to feel what it was, and you know, right?
	You know this, right? Because if you stopped drinking, when was the last time you had a drink?
	It would have been two nights ago.
	Two nights ago. How are you doing?
	Withdrawal symptoms are setting in.
	Yeah, what's happening?
	Insomnia. Getting my vision back.
	It's just fatigue.
	I'm extremely thirsty all the time.
	Wait, so alcohol blows your vision?
	Yeah. I don't know if it blurs my vision, but it also makes me unaware of my senses.
	All right. How long do you think you'll be able to hold out?
	I can't. I mean, with willpower, I can hold out, but I have to have a reason.
	Yeah, you've got to get to the root, right?
	Right. You've got to get to the root.
	Do you think we got close to the root or do you think we got to the root of it today?
	I mean maybe I was circling the drain.
	A lot of the stuff I kind of thought of, but the way you framed the show I think could be extremely helpful in reviewing my behaviors and the way I feel about stuff when it happens.
	I already equated it to something that happened at work a month ago where I had a similar situation where an unintended accident occurred where I damaged something and then the customer was pissed at me and I like spiraled that week Into a massive drinking frenzy to the point I was up all night, like 4 a.m.
	drinking. Right, to medicate yourself against too much anger at your dad?
	It might have been. Well, probably, right?
	Yeah. I mean, it's pretty easy to get mad at your dad in a just way, which is to imagine that...
	You have a babysitter and the babysitter seems very nice and very positive and very friendly and all that.
	And then you come home and your son is weeping because your babysitter hit him and washed his mouth out with soap because he dropped a plate by accident.
	What would you do? How would you feel?
	Yeah, I would lose it.
	Extreme rage, pretty quick.
	Right. Now that's...
	And you've heard me ask this question, but why is your son more important than you?
	Why is he more worthy of protection than you?
	I've heard this question. Why would you get more mad at what happened to your son than what happened to you?
	Fucking hurts. You're as important as your son.
	Yeah, you're just as important as your son is, man.
	Your pain... It's just as important as your son's pain.
	If someone hit your son, the anger that you feel and the desire to protect him is exactly what you should feel for yourself.
	You can't be a good parent and think you're less important than your children.
	You can't. How the hell are they going to look up to someone who thinks they're less important than they are?
	Your childhood self is just as important and just as worthy of protection as your son.
	You know, if... Listen, you and I both know the murderous feelings that we would have.
	If I found out that my mom had somehow beaten my daughter's head against the door, I don't even know how many fucking security guards it would take to hold me back, but it would be quite a few.
	Yeah, you don't have to explain that to me.
	I don't have to explain that to you, right?
	I don't have to explain that to you.
	So why on earth...
	Would I get so much more angry at my mother beating my daughter than beating me?
	Why? I'm just as important as she is.
	Why would I get so much more angry at that?
	Because if I get angry at that with my daughter, but not with myself, or less angry, I'm saying, I don't matter that much.
	And the moment I start saying, I don't matter that much, I have to start putting on a show.
	I have to start putting on a show I alienate myself from those around me.
	And my mom wins. Fuck her.
	I'm not going to let her win. I'm not going to let her keep her from protecting my younger self.
	I'm not going to let her keep her from being close to the people around me.
	And I can't be close to the people around me if I think I'm not important.
	Of course I'm important. I'm essential to them.
	They're essential to me. I'm essential to the world.
	You're essential to the world.
	And you have every right to be even more angry at how your father treated you than some imaginary person hurting your son, because your father actually did that to you for years, and your stepmother and your mother for years.
	Can you imagine if Someone took your daughter for a week and she came back with a giant fucking scar on her face.
	Sorry, your son.
	And he came back with a giant scar on his face because there was a terrible injury, but they just couldn't be bothered to take him to a hospital and get him stitched.
	I'm sorry.
	I didn't catch all that stuff.
	I apologize. So, no problem.
	So, you told me that you have a scar on your forehead, right?
	Right, yeah. Because your mom couldn't be bothered to take you to a doctor to get a gash stitched up, right?
	Right. Okay, now imagine your son is staying with someone for a week and he comes back with a giant permanent scar because he got a terrible gash and they couldn't be bothered to take him down the street to a doctor to get him stitched up.
	Yeah, I would be exceptionally angry.
	Okay, don't laugh, don't laugh, don't laugh.
	Don't laugh, but you're as important as your son is.
	And how I feel with regards to you is how you feel with regards to your son.
	If you want to kick the drinking, in my humble opinion, if you want to maintain closeness with your son, if you want to be the best father, then you have to be as important to you as your son is to you.
	Your childhood protection and anger needs to be as important to you as your desire to keep your son safe the anger you feel towards anyone who would harm your son has to be at least the same as your anger at people who harmed you when you were a child when you were as helpless as your son is because you are as important as your son and you can't lead him and you can't be a father if you think that his pain is important but yours is less important your pain matters as much as your son's the anger that you feel towards your son's imaginary abuse it can't be less than the anger you feel towards your actual abuse otherwise you don't matter And then you can't lead him.
	And you can't be there for him.
	Because he's more important than you and you become a kind of courtier or a serf or a slave to him.
	Just as your father was to his women.
	Oh, you want me to go beat up my kids?
	I'll go do that. He was like this dumb Terminator brute enforcer of her pettiness and anger.
	He was her slave.
	Because only her upset mattered.
	His didn't matter at all. And yours sure as hell didn't matter.
	Yeah, absolutely. You are as important as your son because you were his age and people mistreated you absolutely horrifyingly.
	You matter as much as he does.
	Do you see what I mean? I wish I could generate that anger that I have for these imaginary people harming my son that I have, that I should have for my childhood.
	Oh, it's there. It's there.
	And I think that the drinking is to keep it down partly as well.
	You deserved every bit of protection that you give to your son.
	you deserved every bit of consideration that you give to your son you have to matter it's not even a choice anymore because you've become a father You have to matter. You have to matter.
	You can't put it off anymore.
	You have to matter. He won't flourish if you don't matter.
	I guarantee you that. He will not flourish if you don't matter.
	Because he will grow up knowing that when he grows up, when he becomes an adult, when he becomes a father, he's not going to matter.
	His feelings, his history doesn't matter anymore.
	I can't do that to him.
	You have to matter. You have to matter.
	You have to matter.
	Do you accept that you matter to me?
	It's really hard to say yes to, Steph.
	Do you accept empirically?
	You know, screw your defenses, right?
	Do you accept empirically?
	We've been chatting almost three hours now.
	Do you accept empirically that you matter to me because you sent an emergency message which I normally don't take or normally postpone till tomorrow?
	I put aside my plans for the evening with my family.
	I'm talking to you for three hours.
	Do you accept empirically that you matter to me?
	Yes, Stefan, I appreciate that.
	Okay, go look at the chat window.
	Okay, let's help people.
	Come on, let's be a community here.
	I know we are. Let's talk to our friend here.
	Let's talk to our friend here, okay?
	Go look in the chat.
	Call in feedback. Okay?
	You sound like a good guy, hero, work.
	You matter.
	You matter.
	Thank you.
	I really feel for you, someone says.
	You and your son matter.
	Don't let those fucks win.
	You are too great for that.
	I would hold your beer while playing video games and not give it back.
	Old me would say that's fighting words.
	Yeah, yeah. As a father, of course, you matter.
	You are making the future. We care and want to see you succeed.
	your son will be proud that you got better for him.
	I mean, you've got a lot of people here listening to this conversation.
	Thank you.
	You certainly matter to me.
	You matter to people who've given up hours of their evening to listen to this conversation, who care how you're going to do.
	And you're too bright a light to piss out with booze.
	You're a hero. There are ways to improve the drinking withdrawals.
	Yeah, that's a medical question.
	I don't have anything to say about that, but I'm sure you know a lot about that, and you may want to consult with a doctor.
	And the fact that you are here in this wonderful forum shows you have friends and like minds who agree and support you.
	Holy fuck, dude, you matter a shitload.
	Someone says you're being so important by doing this call, raising a kid, wanting a chance.
	The wine must flow down the drain.
	What?
	I've got another few minutes, so let's finish up What didn't work with the therapy, do you think?
	Oh, they were hyper-focused on Making plans to do stuff, but never really talk to me about my feelings or anything.
	Or they want me to...
	And they just said generic shit.
	I didn't know what I was paying them for.
	I mean, I could have had this conversation with myself in the mirror.
	Was it like all the depth and insight of your average fortune cookie?
	Yeah, pretty much.
	One of the guys was a jerk.
	The alcohol specialist I talked to was useless.
	He was – he didn't understand my questions.
	And I was just like, I don't know.
	You're a professional, dude. I don't.
	I'm sorry about that. And yeah, certainly not all therapists are great or even good.
	Right. And I went through my medical provider.
	I probably should have sought out individuals more, but I just couldn't afford...
	I can't afford that.
	Do you, I mean, if you find a good therapist, would you accept some financial help if you need it to see that person?
	You know how hard that would be for me to accept that stuff.
	Oh, I know. That's exactly why I'm offering it.
	I know exactly how hard it is.
	But I'm perfectly happy to offer it.
	Absolutely, completely overjoyed to offer it.
	If I found somebody and I needed it, I would.
	And you will. You will contact me.
	Absolutely. We'll make it happen.
	It's not even a maybe.
	Just absolutely.
	Absolutely. Completely and totally.
	It's so hard to accept help like that because it's a point of pride that I can make enough money for my family, but I can't make enough to support them and to fix myself.
	Or to make my, yeah, resolve my issues.
	No, I get that. I get that.
	Listen, I mean, it's an investment.
	It's an investment. You're a listener to this show.
	Let's keep you this side of the ground, right?
	Right. And it's for your son too?
	So, here's my to-dos.
	When you look at your son, think of yourself at that age.
	How much you need it. It's okay if you cry.
	It's okay if you cry.
	Your son needs you to be authentic and honest.
	It doesn't mean you've got to sit down and diagram him out all the abuse and talk about pedophilia at age-inappropriate times or anything like that.
	But what I'm saying is that It's okay to be sad and it's okay to be in tears with your son, right?
	Daddy's sad, you know.
	I was thinking about sad things that happened to me as a child.
	That's perfectly fine. He's not going to be freaked out by that.
	He's got feelings. You've got feelings.
	That's how you connect, right?
	So you got to look at him and you were that age, you were that vulnerable, you were that dependent, and you were treated very, very, very badly.
	Terribly abused in almost every way.
	And just remind yourself, you look at him, you say, I deserve as much protection as he does.
	I deserved as much protection as he does.
	And if anyone hurt him, I'd be incredibly angry.
	Or those same people hurt me.
	I'm incredibly angry because I can't mean less than the person I'm trying to raise.
	Otherwise, I'll simply raise him to be meaningless.
	Like, you know, that's no good.
	You don't want that, right? You want to break that cycle.
	You gotta mean something to yourself in order for your son to grow into a man who means something to himself.
	Because you can't teach what you don't know.
	You certainly can't teach what you don't embody, right?
	Yeah. Sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah, I firmly believe he's a mirror of myself.
	And you're doing incredible stuff.
	Like, this is beautiful, heroic stuff.
	This is the real meat of...
	Raising the world, of raising the standards of the world.
	Now, the other thing is you got to figure out what's going on with your wife, man.
	Right? Because if you just change without navigating her through this, you know, the threat to the marriage is going to be pretty severe.
	Not because of meanness or maliciousness.
	It's just, you know, you change things, right?
	It's like if you suddenly, I don't know, your wife wakes up tomorrow and you've moved to Thailand permanently altogether.
	She'd be like, what the hell?
	Where are we? What's going on?
	It's upsetting, right? So I think, you know, you've got to, I mean, the speech, I don't want to tell you what to say.
	The speech that pops in my mind is something like, you know, you married a guy.
	I don't want to be that guy anymore.
	That's really tough. Right?
	You married a kind of guy.
	There was a lot that was cool about that guy.
	There was a lot that was desperate about that guy.
	There was a lot that was charismatic and popular about that guy.
	And he was great. He was the guy you want to run your party, man.
	I mean, he's the guy who could have made Fire Island actually happen.
	But I can't be that guy anymore.
	I can't drink. I mean, it's bad for my health.
	It's bad for my connection with my son.
	I got a change.
	Now, the guy you were attracted to, the guy you dated, the guy you got engaged to, the guy you married, It's not like I'm going to become...
	I'm not flipping personalities, right?
	I'm not going to become a Swedish chef or a Japanese gardener.
	I'm not changing everything about me, but I've got to mix it up a little.
	I don't want to be too enmeshed in that persona anymore.
	Now, that's a big change for me, and it's going to be a big change for you.
	So where are you with change?
	What do you want to change? What would you like better?
	How do you feel about me changing?
	You know, how can I make this change easier or better for you?
	And help you understand.
	Because, you know, I get distinct memories of telling you, I'm not going to live for long.
	You better become a vet assistant so you've got an income.
	Like, what did you think when I was saying that?
	Like, I mean, how did we all get together?
	And let's make sure we can build going forward.
	But I don't want this change to just be happening without conversation because that seems like a pretty sure way to roll a grenade under the marital tent.
	Something like that. You've got to figure out where she is and what in her history because she's part of where you are.
	You've been together 11 years, right?
	She's a significant part of where you are.
	Some of the good, for sure, take credit, right?
	Some of the bad, though. If she's not been helping you dismantle this show, Oof.
	You know, it means she's kind of invested in the show and she's got to confront that in herself.
	And she has to some degree failed you because she has not been able to successfully intervene in the growing addiction.
	And that doesn't mean she's mean.
	It just means that there's something that's not quite clicking that is giving her the strength to help you in this way.
	And I'm sure she has the strength somewhere within her, but probably due to her childhood, which we didn't get into, but I assume it's not ideal, to put it mildly.
	But she's got to also find a way to surmount that childhood so that, you know, she can be there for her son.
	And if you guys have kids, as I hope you will, she's going to have a daughter and she's going to have that same sex power over her daughter.
	And she's going to have to model something different than what she's been giving you, I think, in the long run.
	Yeah. She always says she's afraid of having a daughter.
	That would make sense.
	Yeah, well, you know, that's a conversation topic because, you know, some of that's going to spill over to the sun too, right?
	Yeah. Do you know what she said when I told her I was going to have this call?
	What? She screamed no.
	Oh, no. I don't know if she'll listen to this because she's listened to the show.
	You don't know if she'll listen to this?
	Yeah, I asked her if she would listen to this call and she said she doesn't know.
	I would say she should listen to the call.
	And listen, if she was to call in...
	I'd be happy to chat with her.
	I'd be genuinely happy to chat with her.
	And, you know, maybe she thought I'd throw her under the bus or she's a bad wife.
	And I'm not saying any of that. You understand?
	At least I hope I haven't.
	Listen, there's some deficiencies.
	Yeah, no. I mean, you guys tell me in the chat.
	I mean, I think I've been fair.
	I don't think I've been throwing her under the bus.
	You know, I mean, you guys are parents now.
	I want you to stay together and be happy and be there for your kids and all of that.
	And so, yeah.
	Yeah. I'd be happy to chat with her and I absolutely promise I'm not going to throw her under the bus.
	But it probably would be more concerned about how I might discuss her appearance.
	Yeah, maybe.
	She was concerned about, you know, he's like, what if Steph convinces you something and then our marriage is over and I'm like, I don't think that's going to happen like that.
	Most of my issues are not with her at all.
	Tell her for me that she has my distinct sympathy.
	And I respect the fact that she's, I mean, I won't say allowed, like she's in control, but, you know, she certainly didn't prevent the phone call from happening.
	She didn't say, you called that son of a bitch and I'm leaving you or anything like that.
	And I completely understand her anxiety.
	I really do. I really do.
	And I'm only here to try and bring philosophy to the people.
	And she's one of the people.
	And if she would like to chat, I would be more than happy.
	To have a conversation with her and she can get it from the horse's mouth.
	But yeah, I think she should. You know, I think she should.
	She should listen to the call.
	I mean, I really think she should.
	That's my strong suggestion.
	And there's nothing in it that's a yearning burning critical of her.
	Yeah. All right.
	How are you feeling now?
	I know there's not some big lightning bolt that cures everything, but how was the conversation for you as a whole?
	Like I said, looking at it from the perspective of the show, that helps.
	Emotionally, all this talking about this stuff really tears me up.
	I've been crying half the time, so I'm kind of tired now, so it's hard for me to give you a full analysis.
	I mean, that shows great sensitivity and great strength, and I think that's, again, part of the heroism.
	And you know, at some point your son's going to listen to this, and you think you're crying.
	You wait for him, man. Like, knowing what a great dad you became from where you started, you have no idea how much he's going to respect you for that.
	Yeah. I appreciate the call and you will keep me posted and of course I say this because you have some self-destructive thoughts if Yes.
	Yes. Okay.
	And will you keep me posted?
	And will you give me the honor of helping you if you find a good therapist or if anyone has suggested a good therapist who would be able to help?
	Because you can get people remotely as well, too.
	Will you give me the honor?
	I know this sounds ridiculous. Will you give me the honor of helping you out with that?
	It would be my absolute honor.
	As much as it's hard for me to say yes, yes, Steph, I will gladly accept your help and I appreciate it.
	Good, good. Okay.
	Okay, good. Well, thanks everyone for listening in tonight.
	I know we had talked about another topic this evening.
	I hope you guys will forgive me if I don't pursue it.
	We will try and do it either tomorrow night or Saturday.
	I know we had another topic which we're going to talk about, the moderation and so on, but I hope you'll forgive me.
	This went a little longer.
	And I really appreciate everyone's feedback and thoughts.
	I love you guys so much.
	It is an immense and amazing honor to be part of these conversations.
	And keep me posted, my friend.
	Keep us up to date daily if that helps you.
	And really do give a big hug to your son for me and all my very best to your wife.
	Have a great evening, everyone.
	I'll talk to you soon.
	Well, thank you so much for enjoying this latest free domain show on philosophy.
	And I'm going to be frank and ask you for your help, your support, your encouragement and your resources.
	Please like, subscribe and share and all of that good stuff to get philosophy out into the world.
	And also, equally importantly, go to freedomain.com forward slash donate.
	To help out the show, to give me the resources that I need to bring more and better philosophy to an increasingly desperate world.
	So thank you so much for your support, my friends.

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