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Oct. 8, 2020 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:07:28

DATING THE DEAD! Freedomain Call In

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	Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Free Demand.
	I'm here with the man we will call John for the duration of this call, and then that name shall be forever discarded, not his real name.
	And I guess we'll start with the message that you had sent to me, how we should start.
	Just read it away, I guess.
	Okay. Hi, I'm John, a 28-year-old male from the Netherlands, a very passionate young man with a lot of Dreams and eagerness to learn.
	I live with the belief that I can achieve anything in life when I set my mind to it, yet I struggled for years to be happy.
	There is one consistent thing I've been able to change, the incredible and consistent looming loneliness that's eating up my soul.
	Two decades of constant rejection by girls and women drove me to desperation.
	I've been trying to fill this emptiness with porn for years.
	To a point where I'm so addicted it's negatively impacting my life and guided me to dark places.
	The dire need to be wanted, to be relevant in someone's life, to take on the world together and to just feel accepted is dragging me down.
	I've had many conversations with my inner stuff but somehow I'm still stuck.
	I'm just stuck and desperate.
	I don't want...
	I don't want to stay in this time.
	How do I go on?
	It's a very brave, honest, and direct message, and I really, really appreciate that, and I really respect the courage it takes to write all that down, just putting that sort of straight up, up front.
	And I guess we'll start, I mean, it's funny because it sounds like, oh, we're just starting the usual place, but it's usual as far as the place we start, but it's different, of course, for each individual.
	So why don't we start with a tour of your early years, your history, and so on?
	Yeah, okay. So, I'm born in a family of eight, but I'm the eldest, so when I was born, I was the only one.
	Yeah, my mother is from Suriname, which was the colony of the Netherlands at one point.
	I'm sorry, geography has never been particularly strong for me, so if you could break that down a little more for me, that'd be great.
	It's a whole country, but everyone here knows where it is because it was a colony, but yeah.
	So it's above Brazil.
	So above Brazil, you have three countries, Guiana, French Guiana, and Suriname.
	So the Netherlands had a colony in Brazil?
	Yeah. Wow, I mean, I probably should know that, but I've got to confess, if I did know it, I don't remember it.
	So, okay, that's cool.
	So your mother, is she Brazilian?
	I mean, obviously, she would be Brazilian by geography as a whole, right?
	No, no, no. So it was never part of Brazil.
	Actually, the country was traded for New York before New York was New Amsterdam.
	They traded it for this country.
	So the Dutch came there, and since the Dutch were also very, let's say, good slave traders, they had a lot of plantations there.
	So my mom is a descendant from one of these slaves that were held there.
	She came to the Netherlands when she was eight, so she only has child memories from the place and then later went back a couple of times for holiday.
	A lot of people from there came over to the Netherlands before the independence, so a lot of culture came with it as well from the place.
	Okay, got it. I just want to correct something because it sounds like you've swallowed a fair amount of progressive education slash indoctrination.
	I mean, it's true, I guess, that Europeans were very good slave traders, but everyone in the world was very good slave traders and we couldn't match anywhere close to the blacks in Africa.
	We couldn't match anywhere close.
	Yeah. To the Muslims.
	And so, we're actually, Europeans are very good slave enders.
	Very good slave enders, because we ended slavery.
	The we is very loose, of course, there.
	But Europeans ended slavery, and I just wanted to sort of point that out.
	It's kind of an inconsequential point, but I hate to let these, I've got a fetish for not letting these things pass unmentioned.
	Yeah, yeah. I'm very aware of that, so it's not that I'm like, Of course, out of context, it sounds like I would think that it's this way, but I know that The Europeans ended the slavery.
	I mean, especially in Suriname because the Dutch ended the slavery there as well.
	Well, and the Dutch, you know, got one of the first stock trading systems, the stock markets going in the entire world, which is really the foundation and feature of the free market.
	And so, a lot of cool stuff.
	And the first stock crash with the telepso.
	It's also interesting. Right.
	Anyway, so, sorry. Go ahead.
	And my dad is a native Dutch and a farmer.
	So, I grew up on a farm, actually.
	Right. They're both Protestant Christians.
	My grandparents from both sides were Protestant Christians, so my mother's side took with them to the Netherlands.
	That's actually how they met on a camp, like a holiday camp.
	Eight children, I was the first.
	I've always been quite on my own, I guess, even though I had a lot of Protestant sisters.
	Like to play alone or something.
	To the annoyance of my sister who often wanted someone to play with.
	And would you consider yourself mixed race?
	Well, besides me not liking categorizing people in such a big class as race, I'd rather use ethnicities, but yeah, I mix ethnicity.
	But, yeah, I don't know.
	Mentally, I'm, like, fully Dutch.
	No, no, no. I absolutely, yeah, sorry.
	I just meant physically. Because sometimes, as you know, I've sort of talked about this in the show before, sometimes people who come from MXRake's background do have certain issues, sort of, maybe where they fit in.
	And, again, this may have absolutely nothing to do with your experience.
	I was just curious about that.
	Yeah, so I'm... I'm mixed race, like, physically, but I'm on the light side.
	So people do recognize that I'm not natively Deutsche.
	Sometimes I do get the question, oh, what country are you from?
	But, you know, it's interesting.
	I've actually never encountered racism in schools, even though I went to a very, very, very Christian, strict Christian school with, like, 99.999% white people.
	Right. Okay. I was just curious about that.
	So you don't basically look like a totally native Dutch with a tan, but there's...
	Yeah. What's the phrase?
	It's a pretty nasty phrase because it sounds like exotic.
	You have an exotic look to you or something like that?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
	Okay. Got it. Got it. And so eight.
	Wow. Eight kids, you said, right?
	Mm-hmm. That's...
	I got to imagine that's slightly higher than the Dutch average.
	What's the story with that? Yeah.
	Well, not traditionally. It used to be that the Dutch is very big families.
	I mean, even the Dutch population has grown from 5 million to 13 million in less than 100 years.
	At one point, they liked big families.
	But yeah, I think it's part of the traditional Christian culture, at least here, the Protestant culture.
	I know that's kind of a stereotype sometimes, but I guess it's true in this case.
	My mother once said, like, besides, she just liked babies at one point.
	Like, if they would get the old, she wanted the new one.
	Because at one point she just said, she missed changing diapers.
	Right. No, I understand that.
	I really, babies are fantastic.
	So I completely get where she's coming from.
	All right. Yeah. I think from a faith standpoint, she said, like, Well, they didn't use any contraception or something.
	And they said, like, as long as God is giving us kids, he will also provide.
	So that's basically the thing.
	Lately, she said to me, like, maybe it was not so...
	Maybe she should have thought about it more and maybe it wasn't the best move to get that many.
	Hmm. Right.
	Well, I mean, I guess you didn't want for companions, although you may have occasionally wanted to want for companions, but you didn't, I guess, as a whole, right?
	Yeah, yeah. Right.
	Okay. All right.
	And I guess what was it like for you growing up?
	Well, we lived on a farm, so it's quite like further off from the rest of the civilized world, although the Netherlands is quite a packed country.
	I've been actually, just so you know.
	Yeah, I heard that.
	I didn't know about you, otherwise I would have visited a talk or something.
	It was always like playing at home and then being brought to school and being brought home from school.
	Which period are you talking about for growing up?
	Well, I mean, I guess you went to a regular school from the farm, is that right?
	Yeah, so in a village nearby, it's about 50 minutes with the bike.
	I went to a Christian school, but my mother didn't find it Christian enough.
	After I spent three years there, so then she sent me to an even stricter Christian school.
	I'm trying to figure out, just based on your voice, it sounds like you're carrying a load.
	Is that so? Yeah, I mean, it sounds, because, again, look, I know it's an odd situation, right?
	You're talking to someone you've listened to for a while, and it's Skype, and, you know, it's not face-to-face or anything, so I know that it's an odd situation, but I do also, I mean, I think fairly have a fairly good sense of this after so long.
	That it just sounds like there's a weight on your words, a weight on your...
	Your speech is kind of a little bit...
	I don't know how to...
	It's monotone, not quite monotone, but...
	And again, it could be a language thing, but, you know, you're fluent, right, and all that, but...
	Yeah, I'm trying to figure out.
	Now, if you know anything about this burden, or maybe I'm completely wrong about this, of course, I'm always an empiricist and the reality is you and your experience.
	But if you do know anything about this burden, if we could get to that first, otherwise I can keep asking questions.
	I don't know, maybe it's just nervousness and, well, I don't know, maybe my sound is a bit high-focused because I'm breathing too high.
	I can try to relax a bit more, maybe that.
	I think relaxing is good.
	Nothing bad is going to happen.
	I've talked to thousands of people in this way, and to my knowledge, nothing bad has happened.
	I don't think it'll be you.
	I don't think you'll be the one to break the batting a thousand for good things happen streak.
	So yeah, if you could, that'd be great.
	Okay, well, how were you disciplined at home?
	I mean, Christian, Protestant, I hesitate to say fundamentalist because that has all these kinds of connotations, but how did that work at home?
	Yeah, I guess on the scale of strict, it's not the most strict Protestant you can find.
	At school, for example, where I went, there was all these rules about girls having to wear skirts always, and boys long pants, and boys weren't allowed to have long hair.
	These rules weren't really there at home, but it was quite strict in the sense that on Sunday, two times to church...
	Reading the Bible multiple times a day.
	And they did hit me when I was young.
	Not like beat, but like spank, I guess.
	And how often would that happen?
	Yeah, I think...
	I find it hard to find an average for that, but like...
	Once every two, three weeks.
	No, like daily or something.
	And was that fairly evenly distributed among the eight kids?
	Was there one, maybe you, more or less than the others?
	I guess it was fairly evenly distributed for the first and then later my parents became, they changed their view on this and like my youngest brother is barely, barely gets any spanking.
	Right. Okay. And how are your siblings doing in life as a whole?
	I think...
	Yeah, so my sister below me is married already.
	She lives in her own house now with her husband.
	And... I'm becoming uncle already.
	Ah, congratulations. But that's of course part of why we're talking, right?
	Yeah. I have to say, it feels a bit strange.
	All my brothers and sisters seem to be able to get relationships and even marry and get kids.
	I'm still here on my own.
	Right. Yeah.
	It's hard. I've tried...
	I have to say I've been kind of obsessed with girls for a lot of my youth, and that's June down.
	But obsessed in a sense from a distance, but it's weird.
	Like... Maybe you can ask some things because I'm kind of...
	Yeah, no problem. I just didn't want to interrupt your thought, but I'm happy to ask.
	Okay, so tell me a little bit about your dating history.
	Yeah, so I've only had one official relationship of three months, and that was...
	I'm sorry, how many?...two years ago, I had one relationship of three months.
	Okay.
	It's basically through a summer.
	Furthermore, yeah, before she was like the first one I had a relationship with and the first one I had like real sex with.
	I dated a few girls before, but before it was mostly asking a girl out and being rejected.
	In the early times I would straight up just ask them to be my girlfriend and be rejected.
	What? You mean, instead of asking for a date, you'd ask her to be your girlfriend?
	Yeah, so talking like high school days.
	That's a bit premature elaboration there, my friend, because, you know, you're supposed to, you know, ask a couple of dates first to see if you like each other, right?
	I mean, if you say to a girl, be my girlfriend, or do you want to be my girlfriend, you're kind of signaling that you don't have any real standards, because, you know, you don't say, well, you know, me awarding the title of girlfriend is kind of an honor, and I want to make sure that it's the right person.
	You're just like, hey, be my girlfriend, whoever you are, right?
	Like that old Doors song, Hello, I Love You, Won't You Tell Me Your Name?
	Yeah. It was high school and I was very...
	I lagged behind on social development for a long time in high school.
	Part of it was because being bullied.
	Yeah. Eventually I changed schools from a very strict school to a more like named Christian school as in they were Christian but like you wouldn't know in going there.
	But it was a lot looser there because it was like a new area.
	I did like a speed course in social development with some people I trusted throughout a couple of years I had to Makeup for like eight years of lagging behind or something.
	What happened with the bullying?
	Like what was the story of it?
	It's weird because it seemed to get on every time I switched class or switched school.
	And I never really know what it was about because they never really bullied me specifically about the subject.
	So it wasn't about my color or was it about...
	I was just making fun of things I did in the moment or something.
	Right. And how would it manifest?
	Was it physical? Was it verbal other ways?
	It was mostly verbal, and the most common way was just shitting me out.
	Oh, just like ostracism?
	Yeah, ostracism.
	But also like verbal, like swear word?
	No, how do you call that? Calling names.
	And what would they call you?
	I think I... I think I pushed that away.
	I don't know. You must have some memory of it.
	I think there's like stupid or weird kid or...
	Was there anything...
	I think things like nerd and stuff.
	Like, yeah. Things like nerd, that was mostly it, yeah.
	Right, right. And was there anything sort of unusual?
	It went physical at some points, by the way.
	I'm sorry? It went physical at some points, by the way.
	And what would happen there?
	So sometimes I would be here...
	There was a lot of table football.
	I don't know if you know that, with the rotating sticks and stuff.
	Table football like Zibutio?
	Yeah. It's like a big table with all these sticks inside with little...
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that one.
	Yeah, yeah. I became very good at that just to have something to be good at to show.
	But then sometimes they set me up and then some guy would hit me because they thought I did something wrong or something.
	Like full in the stomach with a full fist.
	Oh, like double you over, can't breathe kind of thing?
	Yeah. Sorry about that.
	Not on the neck.
	I'm sorry? Not on the neck.
	Now, you're laughing about this, right?
	That's completely screwing up the conversation.
	I guess. I don't know. No, no, no.
	Come on, man. You've listened to this show for a long time, right?
	I know, yeah, yeah. And I'm sure every time you hear someone laugh about their abuse and you hear me call them on it, you're like, oh man, I can't believe people laugh about this stuff, right?
	And then everyone gets on the show and does the same thing, right?
	Yeah, I guess it's human.
	Yes, but, well, actually it's inhuman in a way.
	Yeah, yeah. Because you're inviting me to dismiss what is pretty formative for you, right?
	It's pretty powerful for you. Yeah.
	But I'm not going to. So if you could just hold off on that.
	I mean, if you're going to tell me about being punched as a child by assume older, bigger boys, I'm not going to laugh with you, right?
	Yeah. Now, was there anything about your appearance?
	I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, one time they put porn pictures in my bag and like tampons.
	And my mom would find out when I came home, she would empty my bag for like the lunchbox and stuff.
	And she would like, what's this?
	I hadn't seen any porn back then yet.
	So that was kind of embarrassing.
	It was embarrassing because my mom found it.
	I didn't I think that was one of the worst things they did.
	That's wild. I mean, that's really horrible.
	I mean, that's so... Because that's not spur of the moment, right?
	That's not... I mean, sometimes we think of bullies like, oh, you know, they lose their temper and they lash out and so on.
	But that's really calculated, right?
	That's really pre-planned.
	That's first-degree bullying, right?
	With intent and all that kind of stuff.
	So, yeah, that is...
	Yeah, it's like search for my bag in the hallway.
	Yeah. Right.
	Knowing which it is. Even going on the computer and printing out the pictures to put them in.
	Yeah, that's a real setup.
	Was there anything about your appearance that was unusual at the time that they may have hooked into?
	I think the one thing that a teacher wants or the class mentor or something talked to me about was that I had kind of a smell.
	Like body odor. How old were you at that point?
	I think 14 or something.
	Yeah, so post-puberty, right?
	All kids start to stink up around puberty.
	Children below that, you know, babies, toddlers, latency period and so on, there's almost none of that.
	But, you know, puberty and post-puberty, yeah, everybody starts to stink up the place.
	I had the sort of same experience I've talked about on the show before.
	It might be worse for me because of my mixed race.
	Also because maybe our eating habits at home, we would often eat more from my mother's side kind of culture.
	It's just very nice food.
	So it may have been breath plus body, right?
	Yeah. But also so much that even if I would shower every morning, it would still...
	Smell on the day. The shower doesn't do it, right?
	Deodorant plus shower might, right?
	Yeah, deodorant too. It would only work for a couple of hours.
	Even if it was a quiet day.
	Even daily bathing plus deodorant, is that still an issue for you?
	Less so, but every now and then someone still kindly tries to tell me that or something.
	Right, right, okay.
	But yeah, I never smell it myself.
	I know it's different, for example, when I do sports and then I really smell it, but if it's a normal day and I'm just going on my business, then I don't smell anything, but apparently other people do.
	Right, okay, okay. So, an odor.
	Yeah, an odor. And now this is something, of course, that your family didn't talk to you about, right?
	No, not really, no.
	They might also have not known it because they grew up with me, so they might be used to my smells more.
	Well, you know, I mean, parents can smell their children, right?
	And it is also one of these things where, you know, sort of responsible parenting is sitting down your kids around puberty and saying, okay, you know, welcome to your new little friend called body odor, right?
	And this is something you're going to have to deal with, you know.
	It's something you have to deal with, and that's the downside.
	The plus side is we don't live in the Middle Ages where you've got to kiss a woman who's never brushed her teeth, right?
	Yeah. But that didn't happen?
	I don't think. I think you'd remember it, wouldn't you?
	Yeah, maybe once. Or like my mother would buy deodorants for me or something.
	But nothing where they sit down explicitly and say, this is the issue, right?
	I did remember when I was, I think, till I was 10 or something, I would pee my pants a lot.
	But not like, let everything go, but just like not go to the toilet.
	And then just, it would drip out and then I would just keep on going with whatever I was doing.
	And then, of course, we start to think...
	But that was only as long as I was a kid, so like till 10.
	Why did you not? I mean, obviously, your body makes it pretty uncomfortable when you need to pee and you don't.
	So what kept you away from the bathroom?
	I think maybe more important things going on.
	Like, I'm building this Lego thing and I want to finish it first and then I'll go if I finish the thing.
	But then, of course, you get new ideas so you want to finish that and it's like...
	Yeah, I know.
	I mean, all kids have that.
	They want to finish stuff. Was there a fear that one of your siblings would trash the place or you'd lose it or it would be taken?
	No. I think it's just...
	Yeah, so I think it's related to this that I'm I can get lost in my mind, in my imagination, and just forget about the real world.
	Yeah, and that's a fine thing.
	I mean, that's where imagination is good, right?
	I mean, and all of that.
	So, I'm trying to figure out, though, was the bathroom, I mean, with 10 kids, sorry, 10 people in the household, I guess, was the bathroom kind of full?
	Or, like, I'm trying to figure out what would keep you away from the bathroom.
	No. No. No, it would just be available.
	My mom would often be like, she would have to ask, like, have you gone to the bedroom?
	And I was like, and then I would feel it like, oh, yeah, yeah, actually, I do have to go.
	And this went on from toddlerhood to 10?
	Yeah, something like that.
	Okay, so did your parents sit down with you and sort of try and sort this out, like figure out what your thinking is and how to fix it?
	Because I guess your mom's doing extra laundry and all of that, and there's, of course, there's infection issues, there's the uric acid, the sting, right, and all of that.
	So it's a fairly important childhood issue to deal with.
	Yeah, yeah. I guess sometimes...
	I don't think they ever tried to figure out my thought process.
	Just sometimes would approach me like, it happened again.
	With like a certain face that she made that I can remember.
	Sort of a disappointed face, I think.
	Yeah. And then I would be, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, actually, okay.
	And then I would quietly go to my room and change my pants or something.
	Oh, so she would notice that you were in the front of your pants?
	Yeah, or like the smell or whatever.
	And so she would just be sort of, was it disgust or disappointment or something else?
	You said disappointment. Yeah, disappointment mostly, I think.
	So she would express a negative opinion of you or of the event, I suppose, but wouldn't sit down and say, okay, let's try and figure out what your thought process is, where this is going, like where this is going, what's happening.
	Yeah, I can't remember that he did, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
	No, you would remember. So the difficulties that you faced, what resources did you have trying to help you with those difficulties?
	Parents, teachers, priests, extended relatives?
	I mean, you've got, you know, probably 50 people in your life who can, probably not your younger siblings or anything, right?
	But you've got a lot of people in your life who can help you with these issues.
	And did you get any help with these issues?
	Not really. I always thought I could fix it myself.
	Or that I should fix it myself.
	So you're putting the blame on yourself?
	Yeah. Why?
	Because I was like, okay, I'm there, right?
	So I should have noticed.
	Well, no, no, no. All children's first instinct is to go to their parents for help.
	Right? I mean, this is from being a baby, right?
	You're hungry and your mom's got to breastfeed you or give you something, right?
	Yeah. And so, you know, when you need to be changed, you need to be changed, right?
	Mm-hmm. So...
	We all start with the instinct to go to our parents for help, for aid, right?
	So I guess my question is, and I'm sure at some point you thought of it or approached it or broached the subject or whatever, right?
	But then you decided not to and you battled this stuff for, you know, year after year after year without talking to your family.
	Is that right? Yeah.
	And why? The most...
	Feeling I can remember is like shame, like it would be shameful to tell them.
	Okay, and now why would it be shameful to tell them?
	Maybe because of the facing case of disappointment?
	Well, guessing won't help, right?
	Because it's like you're guessing a game that only I know the answer to, but unfortunately or fortunately, this is a game where only you know the answer, right?
	Only I know the answers. So why, if you're being bullied or whatever, right, then why would you take that on yourself?
	Like, it's your fault. Or feel shame for what other bad kids are doing to you.
	Mm-hmm. It's weird because I can't remember not ever thinking that it wasn't something I couldn't solve.
	If I just... Well, but that's nonsense, right?
	Because you couldn't solve it. It is, but...
	No, no, you hold the illusion out that you could solve it in order to avoid having to go to your parents.
	Did you ever tell them about being bullied?
	Like even as an adult when you were bullied as a kid?
	I've told them as an adult, yeah.
	And what did they say? My mom mostly just get angry at the kids, like, oh, they treated you like shit back then.
	Oh, so she knew about it?
	Yeah, well, at least later, like, maybe the early stuff.
	But I mean, except, like, for example, the point thing, like, from that point, for sure, she knew what happened.
	And that was, like, quite early at school, so...
	Yeah, of course. I'm sorry. I completely skated over that.
	But she would say, oh my gosh, what's this doing in your bag?
	And you'd be like, I didn't put that there.
	And like, oh, the kids are really trying to cause problems.
	This is more than just hitting you, right?
	I mean, this is really trying to cause problems in your primary relationships.
	This is really sadistic, right?
	Yeah. So what did she do once she knew you?
	How old were you when that happened?
	I think 12. 12, okay.
	Yeah, 12. And did she know anything about the bullying before that?
	I don't think so.
	She did know that I wasn't very social in class.
	But, I mean, she wouldn't know also because, you know, you'd be bullied and you'd come home and your mom would say, how was school?
	And you'd say, fine. You wouldn't tell her, right?
	Yeah, we just, like, short answer.
	She said at one point that she would just, had stopped asking because I wouldn't tell anyway.
	Right, right.
	And I can, if you want, because I know you're an analytical guy, right?
	So I can tell you why I'm asking all of this.
	You don't have a girlfriend because outside of sex, why would you bother?
	Because you look at your relationship with your parents and you're like, well, there's no intimacy, there's no trust, there's no honesty, there's no utility.
	Your parents don't help you. They don't help you figure out yourself.
	They don't help you solve social dilemmas or social situations.
	So outside of sex, what's the point of having a relationship?
	And the sexual urges you can deal with through pornography, right?
	And so, yeah, if you want to know why, it's because you've normalized this and said, well, how your parents handled all of this with you.
	Well, that's just marriage.
	It's not anything unusual.
	This is just the way it is, right?
	And so, because of that, like, why would you want to recreate what your family had?
	I mean, that would just be to reinflict the isolation that you experienced as a child on your own children.
	And I assume that the distance your mother had from you was also reflected in the distance she had from her own husband, because otherwise...
	If your parents have a close relationship and one parent misses something, the other parent will notice it and bring it up and point it out, right?
	And so your parents were distant from each other, I would imagine.
	Your mother and your father were certainly distant from you.
	And as your firstborn, you think that they would do something.
	And they knew you were being tortured and bullied and they didn't do anything about it.
	And they knew that you peed your pants a little bit through a focus and they didn't help you with that.
	They knew about the social issues and didn't sit down to help you figure that stuff out.
	So why on earth would you want a family if it's just back to the same alienated non-contact nonsense you had as a kid?
	Because you think that's all families, which is kind of why you laugh.
	But it's not all families.
	This is really bad.
	This is a really bad family structure.
	You're bullied because the kids know you don't have a mama bear.
	You don't have a father bear.
	You're bullied because the kids can sense deep down with this predatory instinct that kids possess that no one is coming to help you.
	No one is coming to save you.
	No one's going to stand up for you.
	No one's going to confront them.
	No one's going to tell them their behavior to their parents.
	And so you have made this normal, which is perfectly natural, right?
	It's what kids do. You make it normal in your head.
	But then why on earth would you want to recreate that since it caused you so much suffering?
	What I'm saying is there's a gap between you and your parents and the bullies are a shadow cast by that gap, if that makes any sense.
	The bullies aren't acting of their own accord.
	The bullies are acting because they're dragged in by the gravity well of your lack of connection with your parents or your priest or your extended family, your aunts, your uncles, you name it, right?
	And so because you've normalized all of this, why on earth would you want it?
	I mean, sexual needs are taken care of, and if this is what it is for you to have a family, there's nothing appealing in it that I can see.
	I wonder if you mean the difference between that's the reason why I don't have a girlfriend versus that's the reason why I didn't want to, because I did want a girlfriend.
	I wanted what What missed?
	What you said, that close connection that wasn't there.
	That's why I wanted a girlfriend.
	I can remember that maybe from age 12, I was already thinking about, okay, I wish I can marry as early as possible, maybe even before I was 18.
	In my country, you would have to go to the king to ask permission to marry before your legal age.
	And I would just find a Norfolk girl of my age and then I would marry at 16 together and then...
	I wanted that connection.
	I wanted a girlfriend because I wanted that connection.
	Okay, and that's the surface thought for sure, and this is why you would go to girls and say, would you like to go on a date, but will you be my girlfriend?
	Mm-hmm. Trying to move, but, you know, that didn't work, right?
	So here's the thing, right?
	I mean, this is the level of sophistication that I'm sure you have, right?
	But I'm going to assume that you have, which is, you're how old now?
	28. 28, okay.
	So you got 12 years of dating possibility, right?
	Maybe more or less, but let's just say 12, right?
	So you get 12 years of dating.
	Everything you have done has not worked, right?
	But you haven't changed it.
	And what that means is you want it to not work deep down, right?
	At the surface, you may say, oh, I want a girlfriend.
	But if you have not successfully had a relationship in 12 years, and I know we had the three-month thing over the summer three years ago, but if you've not had a successful relationship or really a relationship at all, Over 12 years, it's because you don't want a relationship.
	Now, maybe that's changing for you now, and that's why we're talking.
	Oh yeah, but for sure, for sure, for sure, for sure, you don't want.
	Now, there's an old cartoon from when I was a kid.
	It's a 50s dad and a sort of hippie teenager lying on the couch listening to music.
	And the dad says, why don't you go and get a job?
	Go and get a job. And then the guy goes in like shorts and a t-shirt, unbathed, flies around to me, goes up to the counter of a department store and he says, hey man, you're not like looking for any workers here or anything, are you? And of course he doesn't get the job and then his dad says, hey, I thought I told you to get a job.
	He's like, hey, I didn't get the job, but you can't say I didn't try.
	I went out. I asked around, right?
	Now clearly, of course, He did, but he didn't want the job, right?
	And so everything that you have done that hasn't resulted in you getting in a girlfriend in 12 years, well, that's number one.
	Number two is that...
	Why would I then fall so madly in love with so many girls?
	Like physically, like I couldn't eat kind of falling in love.
	So tell me a bit more about that.
	So, often I would, if I, there was a girl, and then often it was sparked by, like, a moment together or something that was, like, fun.
	And then I would just, like, obsessively fall in love with the girl.
	Like, I don't know, friends of people.
	You said physically, though. Infatuation.
	No, but you said... Like, I would feel it in my body.
	Oh, so it wasn't just, like, her looks or her sex?
	No, no, no, yeah. It was, like, all kinds of feelings would go through my body for, like, when I thought about the girl, like, so much that, like, I couldn't eat because I didn't feel hungry, or I did feel hungry and not hungry at the same time.
	Everything was confused. They're kind of in love.
	And that would happen quite often.
	If one girl would reject me and then a few months later I would be very hurt and I cried a lot that I was rejected and then a few months later I would fall in love with another girl I saw, and it was a repetition, repetition all over again.
	Like, it was feeling of in love pain, feeling of in love pain, feeling of in love pain.
	For me now, the feeling of falling in love is associated with inevitable pain.
	So I've come to hate feeling that way.
	Yeah. Right, but I'm a little confused as to why those emotions would be associated with love.
	Because, I don't know.
	It's not love, right? I've never asked.
	Yeah, a friend of me called it infatuation or something.
	I didn't know that word before, but...
	Obsession is probably closer, right?
	Yeah. Okay. All right.
	All right. I don't know.
	I always thought from the stories, they call something like that, when you feel butterflies in your stomach, they call that in love.
	So I guess that's why I've been calling that in love for all my life.
	It's a good question. I've never actually asked that to myself.
	So love...
	A given. But love is our involuntary response to virtue, if we're virtuous.
	Mm-hmm. And what you're talking about is, I mean, you could call it fusion, codependency, neediness, obsession.
	But what happens is you promote the woman to the salvation of your life, and then you get paralyzed, right?
	Yeah, women were goddesses for me.
	Yeah, you can't be yourself around her, you can't be natural, you can't be honest, you can't be relaxed.
	So she is now...
	The salvation of your life.
	She is the only source of happiness, right?
	They call this one-itis.
	It's kind of a brain affliction or a groin affliction perhaps, right?
	And so this woman becomes your salvation and then you can't get her to go out with you, right?
	Yeah. Because you can't approach a woman as a supplicant, as a beggar.
	I mean, you can, but any woman with any self-respect is going to just not respond to that, right?
	Yeah. Because she's looking for you not to fall in love with her.
	She's looking for you to be competent in the world.
	Because your love ain't going to pay the bills.
	Your love ain't going to feed the babies.
	Your love ain't going to...
	Right? You need to be good in the world.
	And yes, she wants you to attach to her and all of that.
	But she needs you to not be facing her, but to face the world and take her with you.
	Whereas if you're just like, you know, you're my everything, you're my, I mean, there's all this crap that's produced by culture, you know, I can't feel my face when I'm with you.
	Like, this is a guy who's literally got Novocaine head because he's so attached to this girl.
	And, you know, I guess that might be nice for a certain shallow kind of ego vanity, but when it comes to the actual purpose of attraction, which is to build a stable household for kids, the fact that you're obsessed with some girl, well, it's not going to pay the mortgage, right?
	And that's exactly another point, I think.
	I'm so bad at that.
	Oh, yeah, no. So I did want to ask sort of where you are work-wise, resource-wise, income-wise.
	Yeah, so currently I have my own business.
	If I count up the numbers, I make less than if I would have a minimum wage job.
	Oh. I rent a house from my parents.
	My parents don't live here, but the house is owned by my parents.
	It used to be the house from my grandfather.
	And I rent from them, so it's cheaper than another place I could get.
	And how many hours a week do you work?
	It differs.
	I think on average it's around 30 or something.
	It's hard to say because my business is actually very unstructured.
	I have a vision for what I want.
	I am passionate about history and about bringing it back to life.
	I developed skills over Basically since high school, game making, 3D, everything.
	I'm sorry, game making?
	Yeah, game making, programming, 3D art, everything.
	I know everything about game making, all the different aspects.
	Oh, and have you made games? No, I haven't released anything.
	I've only made Star Wars games.
	Like, I have whole folders with starts of games.
	Do you have the feeling deep down that you're gonna live forever?
	I'm a little confused here.
	Like, you're pushing 30, dude.
	Yeah. What the fuck?
	I can't focus on one idea.
	Yeah, you can. Oh, no, no, no, no.
	Listen, hang on, hang on, hang on.
	No, not acceptable. Not acceptable.
	I'm a free will guy. When you tell me it's impossible to focus on something, when you also told me that as a child you peed your pants because you didn't want to break focus, I just call bullshit.
	Sorry, I've got to be firm with you here, right?
	Okay, yeah, that's a good point.
	Don't tell me you can't focus.
	Of course you can. But you've given up on women, so why would you need a career?
	I mean, I'm not saying you've given up on women, but it's been such a long streak of no success that a man's ambition is driven by Family is driven by the need to provide, the desire to provide, right?
	Yes. You've got no one to provide for.
	You're kind of like a half-squatter in your parents' house, right?
	So you're just orbiting nothing here, right?
	Yeah. And there's no way forward, no future.
	I mean, maybe you could work to make your business better or whatever, but I assume that's mostly reactive, right?
	You're not out there drumming up business.
	You're just waiting for the calls and then just doing some stuff, right?
	Yeah, so currently it's only driven by passion and passion comes in waves.
	Passion comes in waves.
	Oh, so you just have to wait for the, like you're a surfer.
	If there's no waves, you can't do it.
	Yeah. Save no control.
	I would work on a week, like I have an idea, and I would work on a week for a project, and I have some basic stuff working, and it looks good already on the pictures, and then it's like, and then after that week, the machine is gone, and it's like, and I'm sitting, okay, I'm going to continue, and then it's like, I freeze or something.
	And then it's like two weeks of just slumbering and watching YouTube videos, watching porn.
	And then suddenly I get a new idea and I start working for a week on a new project, not the same project.
	And people don't pay for half projects.
	They really don't. Why?
	Okay, so it sounds like you just don't know how to get things done in a way.
	And I don't mean to insult your intelligence.
	I mean, you're a very smart guy and all of that.
	But you don't...
	I mean, a lot of what we do is not that much fun, right?
	Yeah. I mean, I used to be able to live stream to YouTube, and then it would just go out to everywhere else, right?
	And now, you know, I've got to live stream, I've got to download, I've got to compile, I've got to do the audio, I've got to upload it to a wide variety of sites.
	It just takes forever, right? Yeah.
	And it's boring as hell.
	I'm sorry, I can hear a background noise.
	I'm not sure what that is. Oh, yeah, sorry.
	It's raining. Oh, that's fine.
	And I have a thin roof, so I can't do anything about it.
	You don't have a basement or anything you can go to, do you?
	No, there's no basement.
	Okay. So, yeah, I mean, I can't sort of, other than to mention, I'm not sure what passion has to do with it.
	I mean, passion is a very childlike way of looking at things you need to get done as an adult.
	Because, you know, a lot of what you need to get done as an adult is not that much fun.
	Yeah. And...
	But you seem to have...
	You give yourself permission that if you don't want to do it, you don't have to do it.
	Is that right? Yeah.
	But I don't see how that's the case.
	In reality. Right?
	I mean, you know that there's things you should do that is not that much fun.
	Yeah. Yeah.
	I know. But you have this thing where...
	I mean, it's funny, right? So, look at the house around you, right?
	It's a fairly nice house, I assume, right?
	Yeah, it's an old farm. Yeah, okay.
	So, would you have any place to live if you were the contractor?
	In other words, if you had to put in month after month after month of exacting hard labor to build this farmhouse or this farm as a whole, would you have finished it, given your current work?
	I guess not. No.
	You wouldn't have any place to live, right?
	Think of the computer that you're using.
	Think of the headphones, the internet, the cables, the electricity.
	Would any of it exist if people had your work ethic?
	No. No. So everyone else has to do things they don't want to do and work hard so that you can enjoy all of the things that you enjoy.
	But you're different, right?
	You're an exception to that rule.
	You don't have to do that.
	I mean, let's say the electricity went out on your farm and you call the electric company, right?
	And the guy says, oh man, I'm so sorry.
	I'll be out there today to fix it, right?
	And he doesn't come that day or the next day or the next day and you keep calling and he's like, you know, man, I'm just not feeling the passion for it.
	I drove halfway, but suddenly I... Yeah, I just...
	I ran out of... You know, I just...
	I got distracted and, you know, some good porn popped up on my phone.
	I pulled off to a quiet corner to take care of business.
	You know, like... You'd be like, what the fuck, dude?
	Come out and fix my damn electricity, right?
	Mm-hmm. Or you go to the dentist.
	And they, you know...
	Oh, man. You've got a cavity to fill, right?
	And they half fill the cavity and then they say, you know what?
	I... I don't really feel like finishing the rest of it.
	And they just leave. No.
	Right? You'd be incensed, right?
	You can't leave me here with half a cavity filled.
	What the hell am I supposed to do? Yeah.
	Everyone else. Everyone else has got to work hard and do their job, but you don't have to, right?
	Well, I know I have to.
	It's not like, I'm not denying that, like, meant, like, honestly.
	Well, you kind of did. I mean, if you want to, we can't rewind live, but when you listen back to this later, you kind of did.
	Because you're like, ah, you know, I just, I don't feel the passion, or, like, you didn't say, oh, I'm totally messing up and doing the wrong, you're like, you gave yourself the out of, like, I didn't feel like it.
	Yeah, but I don't like that part of myself.
	I mean, all I can do is go on what you tell me, right?
	Yeah, okay. And now when you talked about it, you just said, I didn't feel like it.
	Not like, oh, I can't believe I have this thing where I don't feel like it.
	I don't do it. I hate that. All I can do is go with what you tell me, right?
	So then if you tell me later when you didn't say you hated it at the time and you didn't really seem to have any discomfort with it, you could tell me later as you have.
	Oh, but I don't like that part of myself.
	It's like, yeah, all I can do is, I mean, I can't read your mind.
	All I can do, I can't even see your face.
	All I can do is go with what you tell me, right?
	And then what happens is, if you say to me, I know I talked about it like I was fine with it, But I also wanted to add, just so you're not confused, that I hate this part about me, right?
	You don't do that, right?
	You say, oh, I just run out of energy.
	I run out of passion. I don't feel like doing it.
	And then I point out that that's kind of hypocritical given what you expect from others.
	And then you're like, oh, no, but I hate that part of myself with no reference to what you said earlier.
	And again, I'm not bitching at you.
	I'm not trying to criticize you at all.
	I'm just sort of pointing out. It's a bewildering and disorienting experience when the conversation doesn't hang together or doesn't seem to have any continuity, if that makes sense.
	And that may be interfering with your capacity to bond with someone, right?
	So what happens when you...
	But maybe it's because in my head those are contradictions too.
	Maybe the porn addiction is a good example of And why I still have it, like, I'm disgusted with myself for having it, but also I don't want it to go away.
	Well, but the porn addiction serves a purpose to keep you away from women.
	Because as you say, falling in lust with a woman is a very painful experience, and it's doomed to failure.
	Yeah. Right? So, the porn is like a vaccine.
	Yeah. Against women.
	Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
	And so you can't deal with the porn until you deal with what do you want out of a woman?
	What value will the woman bring to you, to your life?
	And that's my question. What value?
	I don't mean in the abstract or like, you know, it'd be great if she...
	Like practically and tangibly, what value?
	Let's say that a high-quality woman shows up in your life tomorrow and she shows some interest in you and she comes over.
	What happens? She...
	She supports me.
	She wants me. She...
	She wants to take on life.
	I often say like adventures, but not adventures as in going to some strange country, but just like take on the challenges and like the difficulties of life together.
	That's very abstract, right?
	It is, I know. It is fine.
	But now, do you remember the first thing you said?
	Take a life together?
	Was that the first?
	No, the first thing you said was, supports me.
	It supports me, yes. Supports you.
	Right.
	What does that mean?
	Well, I have the idea what I think it means, but I can't put it in.
	I'm trying to put it in description.
	What would she fix in your life?
	Not my work ethic, I guess.
	No, that's real. Let's be honest.
	Just be honest. This is not the time to hold back or to think of what the right answer is to say.
	Just be frank. I want someone to work for.
	Not for as in boss, but as in To have a reason to work.
	Right.
	Now, how would she fix your work ethic?
	By wanting to be proud of me.
	And I wanted to fulfill that.
	Okay, so she could somehow make you a better worker.
	What else? She could give me kids that I then have to provide for.
	So she could just jumpstart you, so to speak.
	She would give you a reason to work, right?
	Mm-hmm. Now...
	If I give an anecdote, I remember one girl I dated.
	I have a small sailing boat, and I've been needing to work on that to sail in it.
	And I didn't do that for the whole winter.
	It was summer, and I couldn't sail yet.
	But then I started dating this girl...
	And we're talking about the sailboat and she's like, yeah, I want to work on that and I want to sail with you.
	And then suddenly I was able to finish the entire project just before she arrived so we could sail.
	So I could sail with her in the camp somewhere and suddenly...
	What happened to that relationship?
	Oh... It ended horribly like all the others.
	It never really went into a relationship.
	Eventually, she told me she wasn't good enough for she told me she wasn't good enough for me.
	I always find it weird if women tell me that Yeah, and it's not true.
	What she means is you're not good enough for her.
	I mean, we can be men and speak about these things frankly, right?
	Mm-hmm. Okay.
	I want you to think of something.
	You're a slender fellow, right?
	Mm-hmm. Do you find obese women attractive?
	Very... You can say no.
	If you had the choice between a slender woman and an obese woman, who would you choose?
	Yeah. Yeah, that's another one.
	Yeah, you're not a chubby chaser, right?
	Okay. Now, let's say that you meet a woman and she's 300 pounds, right?
	Mm-hmm. And then she says, I'm waiting for the right guy to come along so I can lose the weight.
	What would you say? Yeah, that's kind of shitty.
	Wait, why? Like...
	It's something...
	Like you shouldn't depend on someone else to fix something for you?
	Yeah. Now, would you sit there and say, well, you know, I'll go out with this woman for a year or two and I'll see if she loses the weight?
	No. I would probably assume from the start that it's not going to happen.
	Right. Because if she wanted to lose the weight, it shouldn't depend upon the man.
	It should be a value that she has, right?
	Mm-hmm. You understand why I gave you this analogy, right?
	Yeah. Why?
	Why? Because that's kind of what I'm saying.
	Yeah. So you are the 300-pound woman.
	Right? Because you're 28 years old, you make no money, and you live in a farmhouse with a tin roof provided by your parents.
	Now, a woman who's roughly your age, she's not looking for a fixer-upper.
	You understand? Yeah.
	Either in the house or in the man.
	She's looking for someone because she's going to want to have kids within the next year or two, right?
	And what's she going to see when she looks at you?
	Yeah, I can't even provide enough money for me when I was left alone for a whole family.
	Right. Now listen, for those who hear this later, right?
	John is a good-looking guy.
	I have questions about the hair choice, which we'll get to later.
	But you've got this whole smoky-eyed Johnny Depp thing going on.
	You're a good-looking guy, in my opinion.
	The hair choice comes from my Viking ancestors.
	Well, Germanic ancestors.
	The hair choice also isn't your own.
	I guess. Jeez, man.
	You've got to read my book, Essential Philosophy, on free will because you keep putting everything off to external things.
	No, because you have like long hair, like long, long hair, right?
	And listen, you got a beautiful head of hair.
	Don't, you know, it's lovely.
	Lovely to see. But you know what that signals to a woman?
	I guess lack of self-care?
	No, unless you're drumming for some vastly successful heavy metal band, it means you're broke.
	Oh. Yeah. Long hair costs more than bird hair, though.
	I'm sorry? Long hair costs more than short hair.
	No, no, no, I get that. I get that.
	But you show me, you know, the richest guys in the world, and they don't have long hair.
	Yeah. They don't.
	Listen, your personal choice of how you appear to the world is absolutely up to you, and there's no totally objective standard.
	But to me, looking at it from a woman's point of view, I think it's just a huge value.
	Just look normal. What's wrong?
	It's like the people who have those weird little zigzag beards or they got those nose rings or blue hair or something.
	It's like, just look normal.
	Mm-hmm. You know, the dating market is tough enough without giving yourself a handicap.
	You'd be a great-looking guy.
	I'm not saying get a buzz cut or anything like that, but, you know, if a woman looks at you and sees that you have nicer and longer hair than she does...
	Come on.
	For a man to have long hair, like let's say there's some woman and she's got like a Rose McGowan buzz cut.
	Mm-hmm. And what do you think?
	Yeah, it's already attractive in most cases.
	Well, something's wrong there, right?
	Just look normal. Yeah.
	And so, if you look at a woman with a buzz cut, and she says, oh, it's just easier.
	It's like, yeah, it kind of is.
	But that's like my friend in junior high school who used to come to school with this big duotang and books and pens, all of that.
	Yeah. In a plastic bag from the grocery store.
	And he said, well, it's cheaper than an Adidas bag.
	It kind of is, but it's also kind of more expensive because no woman will date you.
	So to me, I'm just telling you, as a dad, as a husband, as a guy, I've gone out with a lot of girls and so on.
	I'm just saying, you might want to reconsider The hair down to your ass approach, because I really think that that's going to have...
	It's not that long. I know, but it's long, right?
	It goes out of the picture down past your shoulders, right?
	Yeah, like...
	Can I push back on that?
	Please, please. It's your hair, man.
	And this is not just bald envy, right?
	I just want to let you know, but go on.
	Because, like, I mean, hairstyle is also culture...
	related.
	And, like, culture and time related.
	I mean, at one point in time...
	In certain places, all men wear long hair and that was supposed to be the manly thing.
	I'm sorry, I'm not sure what that has to do with...
	At one point, we ran through the jungle naked with a bone through our fucking nose.
	It's still not something we want to do on a regular basis in the modern world, right?
	At some point, men wore petticoats and had high white wigs.
	Okay, so maybe...
	Because it's not just the hair that makes me look different in normal life.
	Because I like to make historical-inspired costumes.
	I like to make costumes that are in between modern and history-inspired.
	So let's say... The color type, like what you see George Washington wear in the photos.
	But then take that concept and make it a little bit more modern and modern fabrics and stuff.
	But I walk around with that normally, or I walk with a top hat.
	Okay, why? Why?
	Why? Why would you do these things when you're not 14?
	I guess it's Two things.
	Part is just a love for a culture that I wish I lived in, I guess.
	And part is, at some point I started embracing difference instead of being scared of it or something.
	Well, first of all, of course, if you were involved in George Washington's day, there'd be a whole lot more work for you to do, which you wouldn't like, and there'd be no porn.
	So I'm not sure about whether you'd really, really like to live in that world where you get smallpox and fucking die, or you die of a tooth that goes wrong or something, right?
	Yeah. So, no, but you're signaling.
	You're signaling to a woman, right?
	And I'm kind of surprised.
	I guess I'm not that surprised.
	Like, why the hell hasn't your family talked to you about this?
	I mean, they know you're still single, right?
	Why, your siblings, like, family is saying, look, I mean, if you want to go and do creative anachronism recreations on the weekend and you want to have live Dungeons and Dragons mazes and monsters style, but for God's sake, stop walking around with Viking hair, George Washington pants and a top hat.
	Mm-hmm. I guess because I told them I don't want them to talk about it.
	Okay. Well, okay.
	So, I mean, you're okay.
	We're talking about it, right?
	And listen, I'm not trying to impose anything on you.
	I'm just telling you what my thoughts are.
	I could tell you this. If my daughter brought you home, I'd be like, here, here's the front entrance.
	Keep walking. There's the back entrance.
	Here's the bus fare. Go home. And it's not because I don't like playful things and it's not because I don't like fun things or anything like that.
	It's not because I don't like difference.
	It's because you're still recreating being bullied and being rejected and being ostracized.
	The bullies are still... It's the fucking bullies who lay your clothes out in the morning, man.
	It's not you. They're draping you in all of this shit so you're just as ostracized now at 28 as you were when you were 8 or 10 or 12 or 14.
	Yeah, I guess. So you can reject people With your outfits, so that they don't end up rejecting you.
	But of course, it's the same thing, right?
	You have a normal repellent, whereas before you had BO, now you've got clothing, which is the normal repellent.
	And maybe a healthy repellent, too.
	Now, if you look normal, and then you say to some girlfriend, hey, I really love dressing up in old costumes and stuff like that.
	It's like, yeah, okay, that's an interesting hobby or whatever, right?
	But if this is your initial presentation, dude...
	Nah, that's not going to work. It's not going to work.
	I mean, I'm really trying to help you get what you want because you basically called me up saying, I want a girlfriend and a family, right?
	And you've got to clean the fuck up.
	And you've got to normalize your appearance.
	And you've got to deal with the possibility of rejection.
	Because right now, you're living a life of rejection.
	You've got nothing to lose by actually being rejected.
	Because right now, you're just living that.
	You get 12 years, right? And this is how I know you don't want a girlfriend.
	Because, I mean, you've been having this long hair, I assume, for a long time.
	I guess it takes a while to grow, right?
	Long hair for a long time, odd appearance, top hats, George Washington coats, you name that shit, right?
	Mm-hmm. You're living alone on a farm in the middle of nowhere with tin roof and rain, right?
	Mm-hmm. Now, come on.
	You want more strange things about...
	Absolutely. Let's bring it on.
	Let's leave no stone unturned.
	I have dated women twice my age.
	Yeah, all right. Well, they're probably just excited to have...
	I mean, I guess you look like an older man in that you look about 275 years old with the outfits, but I guess you're a younger man as far as day goes, right?
	And, you know, that's...
	I mean, from the cougar side of things, beggars can't be choosers, I suppose.
	So, okay, dated women twice your age.
	What else? My sexual fantasies go to very dark places.
	Like what? As in Romanticizing Death.
	Ah, you should read The Sorrows of Young Werther.
	Anyway, go on. That's a story.
	The girlfriend I had a three-month relationship with.
	Her favorite book was American Horror Story.
	And if someone in the audience has seen the movie, the movie is nothing like the book.
	I don't know either. I don't know either.
	Okay. It's not necrophilia or anything like that.
	It's just fetishizing death.
	It is necrophilia.
	Oh, it is necrophilia. Insane levels.
	And that's what we bonded on.
	Like, the sharing of those fantasies.
	I'm sorry, say that last part again?
	That's what... That was our bonding moment when we were texting on chat.
	And it was like...
	At some point, the subject went there and it was like, oh, you...
	You have those fantasies too, and that was kind of where the relationships started with.
	And I suppose after that, two decrophiliacs didn't quite find a way to keep the relationship alive, so to speak.
	They didn't, no. Right.
	There were a whole lot of issues also with her and Like, she had a terrible, terrible youth.
	Like, abandoned my parents.
	Oh, no, listen, dude. Her mom would fuck, like, guys in the next room and stuff.
	No, listen. Once you say necrophiliac, you don't have to fill in any details for me.
	Okay. Like, you don't have to tell me, oh, and by the way, she also had a terrible childhood.
	Like, necrophiliac?
	Right. I'm there, right?
	That paints the whole picture for me, right?
	Okay. Now, do you think, is this something that you started with, do you think, or is this something that you kind of got drawn down the porn tunnel to?
	I think both a bit.
	Like, for sure, it's the porn tunnel that draws you further if you, like, you want to search for the next new weird taboo thing, and you click on websites and they bring you further.
	And the other part is when I was thinking, like, On a very early age, I was already romanticizing that.
	As in, I was dreaming about dying with my loved girl together, and that was one of the most romantic dreams I could have.
	The stories from periods of the past about...
	I don't know, there's one writer here in the Netherlands of a book that they suggest to write at school.
	It's called The Golden Egg, and it's about a guy who abducts a couple separately.
	And then buries them in the ground.
	Like, alive. And then the book is about loneliness.
	And I never understand why this is kind of art that they teach you at school.
	But I guess I understand now with the whole insurgency of communism going on.
	At a very young age, I found these things romantic.
	Like, I would think about it.
	Like, a girl I was in love with.
	And then I would think, like, oh, what if, like...
	Both our families died and we would have to live together somewhere and then eventually we would starve and we would see each other's last breaths and something like that.
	So I guess it's a combination of both that drew me through that.
	Well, but that's not a death fantasy.
	That's just, I mean, life living until the end, right?
	No, no. It wouldn't be like getting old and dying.
	It would be like... Something horrible happening or something.
	That would be romantic in my...
	You mean like a disease or a natural disaster or starving or something like that?
	Yeah, or like I would dream about...
	It wouldn't even be dreams sometimes.
	It would just be daydreams.
	What if two people kidnapped us both together and then tied us up together and we had to...
	Like Kiss Forever or something.
	You had these dreams like life would go, in a sense, not exactly violent but confined and fatal, if that makes sense.
	Yeah. And when do you first remember having, I guess you could say, fantasies which you would consider off the beaten path?
	So you don't mean these child ideas, but like actual...
	Well, no, just even the sort of dreams of death as a child.
	I guess in primary school already.
	Maybe when I was eight, nine.
	Right. Yeah, something like that.
	What were your parents' relationship like?
	very distant from each other.
	Very structural.
	True.
	I mean, my dad came from a strict farming...
	I'm sorry, did you say spiritual or structural?
	Structural. Structural.
	Very formal.
	My dad came from a Farming family where you don't talk about those things, let's say.
	What things? And the things wasn't just romance and sexual stuff, but it was just not about feelings at all.
	You don't talk about feelings.
	You just work and shut up.
	Like a zombie, almost.
	Yeah. I mean, they loved work.
	My grandfather loved work.
	But he loved it so much that he worked till he became demented and never actually took time to enjoy the process of what he worked for.
	Hey, hey, that's the Protestant way.
	Thank you very much. Work.
	It is. Work is virtue.
	Virtue is work. And when we get to heaven, they'll put us on a little roundabout like Conan.
	All right. Yeah.
	And to your mother? My mother came from...
	She came from...
	Also, a bit strict family, but that's hard to explain the culture there.
	I mean, Suriname culture is kind of a mediarchy.
	Sorry, which culture? Oh, the country that was the colony?
	Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
	So it's a matriarchy.
	It's like the aunts of the family.
	Every family has this one aunt that every kid is scared to death for.
	That you never talk to, you don't even look in the eyes.
	And the women can have this look that just, if you do something wrong, they don't even have to hit you at some point.
	It's just they look and it's worse than if they would have hit you.
	Like when you peed your pants, right?
	No, that would be a different kind of expression, but more like if they would give you, like, you talk, I don't know, you did something wrong, but you talked back, right?
	You're not supposed to talk back to adults.
	Basically, it means you were trying to find a reason, you were trying to reason and find a logical argument for the thing you did wrong, but no, you're not supposed to talk back to old people, to older people.
	And then it would give you this stare, like it's I don't know.
	I guess people who know that culture know exactly what I mean.
	Right. Yeah, and I think my grandfather even at some point, he would hit my mother with a belt even.
	Yeah. They call it...
	Both from families where you don't talk about emotions, basically.
	Right. And they call it looking daggers in some Western countries.
	Yeah. Or there's an old, I think, from Monty Python.
	Oh, if Lutz could kill, she'd be in for 20 years.
	Yeah. Or the stink eye, they call it.
	Condi used to be able to do that.
	All right. So...
	Okay, so let's talk about death then.
	Let's talk about death. Because, you know, now I'm sort of understanding why, if you remember earlier in the conversation, I was talking about how it sounded like you were carrying a burden.
	Yeah, you're carrying a burden.
	In that your penis is like water-dousing you towards the graveyard.
	It's kind of a burden, right?
	Yep. Not something that's pleasant to you.
	And it's maybe another contradiction because I find life so interesting.
	Like, creation, and that's one thing that drives me in making art, like, creating things.
	Like, it's one thing about God, like, that I love, like, being out of nothing, bringing things to life.
	It's actually the opposite of what I seem to fantasize about.
	I never understand that.
	Well, okay. So, but there's the things that you create, but they're dead too.
	Your business is kind of dead.
	You said that you created all of these games and never released them.
	They're dead. Mm-hmm.
	I say this because I'm just in the middle of reading this audiobook that I've had sitting in a drawer for 20 years.
	It's bringing it to life.
	So if you create something and don't release it, it's worse than not creating at all.
	It's like not having a baby is better than having a baby and killing it.
	So your creation is death-driven too because your creations don't get out into the world.
	You kill them in the crib, so to speak.
	So I don't see it as a huge contradiction.
	Because your creation results in destruction and you have beliefs that your love will result in destruction or you are drawn to that idea, right?
	Mm-hmm. And that is because you felt destroyed in the past.
	Mm-hmm. You couldn't fit in at school.
	You had bullies.
	You had a cold and unhelpful family situation.
	You were isolated.
	Love, unloved.
	And being unloved is actually worse than being hated.
	You were hated by the bullies because you were unloved by your parents.
	One of the most vivid stories about that As a kid was when I was, at one point, my dad was bringing me to bed and I just had to cry.
	Like, I don't know why I did, but I had to cry very loudly.
	It wasn't because of pain or something, I just was emotional.
	I guess my dad was tired that moment.
	So, and I had to pray for going to bed and I couldn't because I was crying.
	Became very annoyed with me and then angry.
	And when he gets angry, it's not just strict angry.
	It's like emotional angry.
	I see his face still in my head often.
	And then he put me outside the door to cool me down or something.
	That was something he sometimes did.
	And they basically told me I wasn't allowed to cry anymore and I never did after with someone around.
	Yeah, so that's the moment of execution, right?
	Mm-hmm. And you said you were 8 or 9?
	Yeah, I don't remember the age, but very young, yeah.
	Yeah, but it's around the same time as you started having thoughts of love leading to death, right?
	Mm-hmm. Right.
	So, listen, you're a sensitive person, and I say that with great respect, because a lot of, oh, he's so sensitive, like it's a bad thing.
	No, you are a sensitive person, and that is a great strength, if you know how to use it properly.
	Now, for sensitive and passionate people, I won't say emotional, because that also has this negative, like we're all emotional to some degree or another, but for sensitive and passionate people, coldness is a kind of death.
	Because life is emotion, and emotion is life.
	Now, I say that for a variety of reasons.
	One is that it is lust, which is an emotion.
	Sexual desire and lust is a passion.
	It is an emotion. That's what creates life throughout all of the animal kingdom.
	There is no life without lust.
	There is no life without passion.
	There is no life without a sexual drive.
	Now, for human beings, of course, a sexual drive is not enough to create life.
	I mean, you can be a frog and bang yourself senseless, and then, you know, you get a bunch of eggs in a pool.
	They just grow of their own accord, and maybe you can eat them too, right?
	But human beings, we've got to stick together.
	You know, we've got to pair bond for like 20 years to raise a family, or 25 years, depends how many kids you have, right?
	So, now, to bond with people, you need emotions, you need passions, you need connection, you need respect, you need love, you need...
	Worship, to some degree, you need emotion.
	Emotion is what creates life, and in the human world, emotion is what sustains life, the emotion of the love that you have for your partner, the passion that you have for your partner, the love.
	So, emotion is life.
	And life is emotion.
	And I think to some degree, your father's lack of emotion killed him.
	Well, I can't connect, so I must provide.
	And you take the complete flip image of that, and you say, well, I can't provide, but at least I can connect like hell.
	Maybe a little too much, right, to the girls you just met.
	Yeah. So for you...
	Being told, don't feel, is exactly the same, I believe, as being told, don't live.
	Now that was the example of your parents.
	That was a successful relationship.
	No emotion, no connection, no passion, no love.
	So for you, I think, in your mind's eye deep down, in the base of the ball sack, so to speak, Love is death.
	Connection is death.
	Bonding is death.
	To care is to die.
	Marriage is a hearse.
	Love is loss.
	And you can only bond by not being there.
	And so, sure, you imagine that you and your lover are going to end up bonding through death.
	Because the only way that you could have any kind of bond with your father was to kill yourself, in a way.
	So yeah, bonding, love, connection, family, marriage, children.
	It's all death.
	Listen, I mean, I'm not speaking about this abstractly, just so you know, like brother to brother, man.
	I mean, in my family, you couldn't exist.
	You weren't allowed. You could be a shell, like you could walk around, you could eat, you could watch TV, you could notice that it was raining.
	You could do all of these things.
	You could play chess.
	You could play Monopoly.
	You could play cards.
	You could do all the little zombie automaton things that are part of maybe 1% of your life.
	But you couldn't have any depth.
	You couldn't have any questions. You couldn't have any spontaneity.
	And God forbid you had any feelings.
	Because people who brutalize you, your feelings become their predators.
	Because they are waiting always for the blowback of you getting pissed off and fighting back.
	And so I know this landscape.
	I know this landscape.
	I'm just telling you, like, I'm not up here on high trying to hand down these pearls of wisdom from an unscarred place.
	I know what it's like to be in a household where you're exhausted from non-existence.
	You're worn down to nothing by not being allowed to be.
	Where it's all about human doing, not human being, right?
	Where you can't relax, you can't be spontaneous, you can't share your thoughts.
	Because people who neglect or abuse you also create within you rancid thoughts that they don't want to see any more than the murderer wants to lead the police to the body.
	They don't want to plumb the depths of your consciousness because they know what bodies they've buried there.
	They don't want you to be spontaneous or alive.
	You know, that's why when you complain about Being bullied to your mother, she says, oh, the children treated you like shit back then.
	It's like, nope, mom. It wasn't the problem.
	That wasn't the problem. The problem was that you and dad treated me like shit back then.
	So the fact that you would be drawn to death when at the same time thirsting for commitment, I may not be right, but I sure as hell can see it.
	Hmm. Is that an association that I can turn around?
	Sure. Oh, yeah.
	I mean, you wouldn't be calling me if you couldn't.
	Yeah. And you would have acted it out in a way that would have gone very badly.
	I'm sorry, go ahead. One of the things I've tried was, like, you suggest to some people, like, confront your parents about it.
	like tell them how how from your point of view what they've done so i did that like like i don't like lying i hate it even though sometimes i lie unconsciously or like i lie but if i would figure out that i've lied i would like try to apologize or correct or whatever but my parents And basically like my brothers and sisters too.
	They're the only people in the world where I have no problem lying against.
	Yeah, I can completely understand that.
	Shouldn't it be the opposite?
	No, I mean, I don't know about should, but empirically it makes perfect sense to me.
	Because your parents lied to you.
	They said, we want a child.
	And then what did they do? They denied the child.
	We want to have a child.
	But then when that child speaks spontaneously and is emotional, we want that child to not exist.
	That's fucked up, man.
	It's like me saying, well, I want a dog.
	But then the moment the dog licks or pants or barks, I beat it.
	It's like, I don't want a dog because that's what they do.
	It means I want to be cruel.
	I want to torture. I want to destroy.
	But for me to say, I want a dog, and then attack the dog for doing what dogs always do, well, that's cruel.
	That's sadistic, right? So, they lie to you, and they probably say, I love you.
	Well, except when you talk about anything real, then we withdraw and punish you.
	But I love you. We're family.
	Nothing's more important than family.
	We care about family. Oh, our child is saying something that makes us emotionally uncomfortable?
	Shut that down!
	Now! It's all a lie, right?
	And as I've always said, morality is reciprocal.
	Go ahead. If I was finished for something, I would be put in the hallway, and then I would be like, okay, think about what you've done.
	And then I did, and I came out with a conclusion.
	What do you think? Wrong.
	You're not supposed to actually come up with a thought that you came up with.
	All you had to come up with was, I'm sorry, I wouldn't do it again.
	So at some point you just learn, okay, that's what they want.
	Yeah, they want an empty echo.
	They would send me back if I gave the actual thought that I came up with during the time.
	They would send me back, like, okay, you didn't get it.
	Go back and then...
	Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I had the same shit in my household, right?
	I mean, I've said this a million times on the show, but my mother, I would say to my, she would say, why did you do this?
	And I said, well, I thought, and she would say, well, don't think.
	But you see, to not think is to not be.
	To not think is to not exist.
	To not think is to not be human.
	To not think is to not be fucking alive.
	Which is why when the debt comes due and the conflagration comes, well...
	How many people are actually thinking?
	How many people are actually already alive?
	Yeah. I mean, we are surrounded by the walking dead, by the people who have the form and the appearance of humanity, but not the essential characteristic of humanity, which is to fucking think for yourself.
	Which is why I've been fighting all of this causal determinism, casual and causal determinism in you.
	They were wrong, absolutely wrong, as wrong as you can be in this world, to fight your capacity to exist in such a grim and underhanded manner.
	Your father was wrong to work his best to destroy your capacity for emotional self-expression.
	And your mother was wrong to not defend you from the bullies.
	And your mother was wrong to create such a non-bond within you and her, between you and her, that the bullies could do what they did.
	It comes back to your parents.
	Now, you can either vaguely accept that and continue to walk around like a shaggy-haired half-pirate undertaker from 1752, or you can say, fuck that shit.
	That was messed up, that was destructive, that was unholy in a way.
	And you are the true Christian in this situation.
	They were the false Christians.
	Because God himself says, thou shalt not bear false witness.
	I know. And they demanded, as the devil does, that you lie about everything and everyone, and especially yourself.
	That you bear false witness.
	Not that you bear false witness.
	They demanded that you become false witness.
	Not that you tell a lie, but you become a lie.
	But to become a lie is to die.
	Because if we can't speak the truth, what's the point of being alive?
	Mm-hmm. To just be a slave?
	To be an echo? To be a frightened babbler saying anything for another five minutes of breath?
	But the graveyard of your childhood shouldn't be your future.
	Shouldn't be your future. I mean, it could be.
	It can be. It has been for the last 12 years, right?
	But you've got to break out of this mausoleum, this undertaker's prison.
	But you can't let your dead father's commandments to not feel.
	To have you parading around with post-fertility women and broken women who dream of sex with the dead.
	You've got to normalize your appearance.
	I guarantee you, man, you cut your hair, you get some normal clothes, you go out in there, it'll be like being out of a prison.
	It'll be very emotional for you, which is good.
	So you need to reclaim that emotionality.
	But you need to present yourself as someone normal so that you can have a life that isn't in this cryptic underworld of dysfunction and disaster and death that you've been stuck in for a long time.
	How do I change the association of love and death?
	Well, there's the practical and then there's the psychological.
	So the practical is look normal.
	Get some normal clothes.
	Get a normal haircut.
	Whatever is unusual or aberrant about your appearance.
	Listen, if you're such an original person, you shouldn't need to look that original.
	Do you know what I mean? Like if people are so edgy, oh, I got to get a tattoo to show people I'm edgy.
	It's like, oh, bullshit. Like everyone else who thinks they're edgy gets a tattoo.
	So unoriginal. I look completely normal.
	And I'm very original.
	I don't need to display it.
	Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
	It would be like Tom Hanks or some, I don't know, non-creepy actor, like rushing around, jamming his Oscars in everyone's face saying, I'm a great actor.
	It's like, dude, if you really are, you don't need to show off.
	If you really are original and creative, and I bet you are, then you don't need to telegraph it all with this weird clothing and weird hair.
	So just look normal.
	Have the confidence in your own creativity to know that you don't need to signal it like some desperate person.
	Yeah. My wife has a staggeringly great figure.
	When I first met her, she was in a big t-shirt and sweatpants and we met in a volleyball court.
	That's confidence, right?
	If you know you've got it, you don't need to flaunt it.
	Yeah. So if you look normal, there's nothing wrong with that.
	And it can be very, very helpful.
	Now, this is going to go against your grain because you're used to identifying yourself with this outlandish appearance.
	I've hated normal for a very long time.
	That's the word. I get that.
	I get that. I never told you to be normal, right?
	Mm-hmm. Or be average.
	But looking normal and average is perfectly fine and can be very healthy.
	Because you want a woman with the capacity to bond, with the capacity to evaluate you, with the capacity to love.
	And right now, you're signaling a guy who fantasizes about sex with the dead.
	You are. At some level, it's going to come across, and she's just going to back away, right?
	hey man I have sympathy but I got plans to make yeah so that's the practical So...
	Mm-hmm. That's the practical.
	And listen, I get that it's a big...
	I had actually had... I had long hair and a ponytail way back in the day, and I get that it's a big deal to cut your hair.
	So, I don't know, maybe man bun it in a cap or something.
	So it just, you know, just try it out, you know, a little bit.
	See what that's like. Okay.
	I'm already assuming that you're not trying to get me rid of my hair because you're jealous.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I already talked about that.
	No, no, no. Listen, I want for you a great family and I want for you all of these wonderful things.
	And yeah, just look normal.
	And it's going to help in your business.
	It's going to help in your social life.
	It's going to be fantastic.
	Because when you look normal, the women who are insane don't approach you.
	It's a shield. Like a woman with the blue hair and the tats.
	I mean, she's like, yeah, come abuse me.
	That's all I'm used to. That's all I'm worth.
	That's all I deserve. And it's tragic.
	No, just look normal.
	Normal is the crazy repellent as far as appearances go.
	Because people are like, hey, man, you should shave your head.
	To me, right? Well, A, it's way too much work.
	And B, yeah, that's great.
	Let me talk about race and IQ with a shaven head.
	Yeah, that's going to go great.
	That's going to go just fantastically.
	It's like, I don't know why people want to get me healed.
	I don't know. So...
	Yeah. So the physical, the practical, yeah, that's one thing that I would really, really strongly suggest.
	And listen, if you hate it, you know, it's going to take you a year, you regrow your hair, right?
	But I would say at least give it a shot and see.
	You might find that you elicit a better response from the kind of woman you actually want rather than the kind of women that your parents programmed you to want.
	So that's number one.
	Number two, as far as breaking the association, well, that's anger.
	So you have a mind infection called necrophilia.
	Now, the reason why the infection is staying, and the same thing with the pornography, is that your immune system is not recognizing it as a virus, but your immune system, so to speak, has an ambivalent relationship to the mind virus that is isolating you.
	Yeah. Yeah. So you all know, right, I mean, AIDS, right, you don't die from the virus, you die from the virus taking out your immune system and therefore everything else gets you, right?
	So your immune system is not active because you have an ambivalent relationship with the mind virus.
	Yep. So, the question is, how do you activate your immune system to fight this shit and get rid of it?
	Or at least integrate it or whatever you want to call it, right?
	Mm-hmm. Well, there's only one aspect of the mental immune system that you're not manifesting.
	And I've been waiting for you to manifest it the whole conversation.
	You haven't, which is fine.
	It's perfectly fine. Emotion?
	Do you know what it is? Is it emotion?
	Well... I think you've been emotional, but it's a specific emotion.
	Anger. Yeah, you got it.
	You know, right? I'm scared of angering me.
	Sure. Yeah, because your parents...
	Because I'm scared of angry dead. Yeah, your parents' anger was destructive.
	And so you imagined that your anger would be destructive as well.
	Yes. I see my dad's face every time I think about me being angry.
	And my dad's face, if he's angry, is terrifying.
	Of course. But I would submit that your dad wasn't angry.
	Your dad was not angry.
	That's not anger. See, anger is something that peaks, acts, and subsides.
	It peaks, it acts, and it doesn't last.
	Day, month, year, decade, lifetime.
	Anger. It's a pulse.
	It's not a steady tone. There is only one emotion.
	There is only one generally conceived of as negative emotion.
	There is only one emotion that does not pulse, but rather is a steady background noise that lasts a lifetime.
	Do you know what that anger is?
	No. It's hatred.
	Yes, of course. Hatred does not pulse.
	Hatred sits and squats and shrieks and groans and maintains a consistent tinnitus tone for an entire lifetime.
	I just posted about this on Parler.
	The story of my parents who'd been separated for 25 years after they divorced.
	They hadn't been under the same roof. They're under the same roof again.
	My father sneezes and my mother had complained that he'd had a cold throughout their marriage and she turns at me and she hisses as angry as ever.
	That's probably the same cold he had when we were buried.
	Nothing had changed. 25 years.
	It's a constant hum. Anger doesn't last.
	Hatred lasts.
	Anger is like an orgasm. I'm scared I'm going to hate if I get angry.
	Well, you hate already.
	The hate is already there.
	The hate is in your failed relationships.
	The hate is in your failed businesses or business.
	The hate is actually in your appearance, in that you hate normalcy.
	And you already said, I hate normalcy.
	I hate normal, right? No, the hatred you already have.
	The anger is the only thing that can cure you, in my humble opinion.
	I've been angry once.
	How do you call it? Uncontrolled?
	Sorry, say again. Like un-dampened anger.
	Oh, you dampened your anger?
	I normally... I get angry sometimes a little bit, but I dampen it.
	I've only not dampened it once.
	And that was actually at God.
	It was a storm.
	A storm was coming up.
	It was actually...
	You could see it in the distance.
	The Netherlands is a flat country, so everything is coming.
	You see it coming from very far away.
	You could feel it in the air.
	And at that point, I just...
	I felt the anger just coming up at every bullshit thing.
	And where I was in my life, and it just didn't change.
	And I just ran outside into the storm.
	It was hailing.
	The lightning was very close.
	I just ran into the field behind the house where I lived and just screamed.
	I just... I think that was my only uncontrolled anger moment.
	But I was disappointed.
	There was no answer.
	No, but it's the way you phrase it.
	Don't phrase your anger as uncontrolled.
	You're just honest. Anger can save your fucking life.
	I never told this story, but I was in a relationship with a woman who would yell at me.
	And I was reasonable, and I was calm, and I would...
	And then eventually, I was like, you know what?
	You yell at me, I'm just going to yell at you back.
	And... Yeah, we had a pretty epic dust-up.
	To the point where someone knocked on the door.
	In concern. But I was like, no, I'm not.
	I'm not backing down. I'm not.
	I'm not going to fold. Now...
	Very shortly thereafter, I was out of that relationship.
	Thank God. That anger saved my life.
	Appeasement was killing me.
	Or enslaving me, which is kind of the same thing.
	I had another relationship with a woman who just complained about things about me.
	And I've never quite understood that.
	You know, like, okay, if you're like someone overlooked the irritating little things that happen from time to time, but just constant complaining.
	And anyway, so I pointed out, I said, listen, you know, I mean, I come to your place and it stinks.
	At least she had a couple of cats in a pretty small apartment and, you know, it stinks.
	And it wasn't like she was not, it wasn't like they were crapping on the floor or peeing on the rugs or anything.
	It wasn't anything like, it was just, you know, And I didn't say this because I felt, oh my God, she's got to clean up.
	It was just like, yeah, okay, there's little things I put up with.
	I come over to your place and, yeah, I have to kind of get used to the smell.
	And I don't nag at you about that.
	You know, just let things go.
	It's a more pleasant experience, right?
	Anyway, so it turns out the next time I came over, she had obsessively cleaned the place from top to bottom, right?
	Mm-hmm. And at first I was like, oh, that's kind of nice.
	And then I'm like, oh, no, it's not.
	Oh, no, it's not.
	No, no, no, no. She's saying, I'm going to clean this place up so that I can continue to criticize you about things and you can't criticize me about this.
	I was like, oh, shit.
	Shortly thereafter, out of the relationship, right?
	Yeah. So getting angry is healthy.
	It's healthy. I can feel it that it's there somewhere deep.
	As in, what you say, like, I feel the anger is there, is the key to me getting out of the point in my frame now.
	Like, to me getting out of this house that I don't own, to getting out of no one fucking caring about my artworks that I make, that I spend time in, that I don't finish.
	Anger about getting out...
	Wait a second here.
	I'm sorry. I was going to let that go.
	I decided not to. Are you blaming people for not caring about artwork that you neither finish nor share?
	No. I was pointing to the Result of my own actions.
	No, no. You're blaming other people for artwork that you're not finishing.
	And you're blaming other people so you don't get back to the root cause, which is your family.
	And not just your family then, but your family now.
	You've got seven brothers and sisters, assuming they all made it, who aren't driving over, sitting down with you for the long weekend and just helping you unpack all this stuff.
	So, listen, there's a lot of people out in your life who should be caring about you enormously and should have been for 28 years.
	But don't blame the world as a whole for not caring about art you need to finish.
	Yep, yep, I know. That's not their fault, right?
	Yes. All right, but I'm so sorry.
	Yeah, so the angle's down there.
	So, listen, my suggestion is Get yourself into therapy.
	Now, listen, I know you don't have a lot of money.
	If you need money for therapy, let me know.
	We can sort something out.
	I can give or lend you the money or whatever.
	I want to make sure you get that.
	But get to a good therapist and sit with the therapist and ask, you know, are you good at dealing with anger?
	Because a lot of people see anger as toxic, right?
	Because anger destroys political and coercive and exploitive hierarchies, right?
	Like governments or even in businesses or whatever.
	Families or whatever, right? So anger is the great antidote to exploitation.
	Anger is the self-defense against it, right?
	Now, tapping into that or getting that power is really important, but you have a habit of trying to do everything yourself, right?
	You said this with the ball. I should have handled it myself.
	I should do it myself. Problems that are created in solitude cannot be solved in solitude.
	The scars that come from being alone can't be solved by continuing to be alone and just work on yourself and blah, blah, blah.
	So I would strongly suggest getting to a therapist is probably easier than it used to be now because people are doing stuff online because of COVID and stuff like that.
	But that would be my incredibly, if you take one thing out of this conversation, interview a therapist about their experience in dealing with anger and then just, man, open up like hell and get in touch with their guidance and help.
	The last time, though, that I went to some kind of coach, I got sexually exploited, though.
	You what now? I'm sorry to start such a subject that you wanted to end the conversation.
	We could dip into that for a sec.
	What the hell? I mean, I know that sexual exploitation is somewhere in your history now.
	This is where, right? Yeah.
	During my student time, I was part of a student group, basically a fraternity, but not only guys.
	You mean in college?
	Yeah, in college, yeah. During the group, one of the people there, one of the The guys there, he suggested like, oh, I know you have some things you want to work on with yourself.
	I've met this guy.
	He says he's like a coach slash psychologist.
	And you can maybe just have a meeting with him and then see if maybe he can help you.
	And he wasn't like registered at any psychologist thing or something.
	He was just like self-proclaimed coach.
	So I did A conversation and he's like, he's a guy like, he knows how to listen.
	So that drew him in because that's not, I don't meet these people very often in my life.
	So I thought, well, okay.
	But he was quite expensive.
	Like he asked, I don't know, 50 euros for a session.
	Holy crap. I had no reference.
	So I was like, it's quite expensive.
	And the guy said, no, no, no, he's worth it.
	Jeez, and here I am free.
	Anyway, go ahead. He's worth it.
	So then the guy said, yes, I suggest if you can't pay, we can also exchange services.
	I know you can make websites.
	I need a website for my other business.
	So if you make a website and then we have an amount of sessions that ends up with the same value.
	So through these sessions, they went to my porn addiction at some point.
	He was way too interested in the details and I found it a little bit weird but not like alarm bells weird.
	He's just curious.
	Apparently he needs stuff to give a suggestion for help or something.
	At one point he came up with this theory like, okay, I'm addicted to porn because I need to demystify it.
	What's his word? Yeah.
	Because I do it because I like the secretiveness of it.
	So if I would do it, like, and then I suggested, like, okay, what if you do it here?
	And then I watch, and then for you...
	It's more, that's mystical, because now someone is hit, so it's not...
	Oh my god, I'm gonna need to scrub myself down with a moral sea urchin after this story, because, like, holy fuck, that is, like, so off the...
	Okay, okay, okay, but go on, go on.
	Yeah. Anyway, like, at that point I was quite desperate, like, okay, if that works, so I did it.
	And I remember a session before thinking to myself, like, if he's going to ask something like me getting naked or something, I'm not going to do that.
	Next session I did this.
	So I changed my mind somewhere.
	And I've always assumed, okay, it was my own idea to change my mind, but people can manipulate you, no matter how smart you are.
	Wait, so you watched it, but you didn't get naked?
	Oh, I got naked and I jerked myself off watching porn while he was watching.
	Oh my god.
	And then at the end he gave a compliment that there was a lot coming out.
	And I found it a little strange.
	A little strange? Were you in a top hat?
	No, don't answer that question.
	Don't answer that question.
	Do not answer that question.
	Oh my god, I am so sorry.
	Like in all seriousness, that is just a creepy, hideous, disgusting, exploitive way to behave on the part of this coach or whatever the hell he was.
	And I'm incredibly sorry.
	Did you ever report the guy? I just recently did.
	And this was already like four years ago.
	So he stayed in contact with me through WhatsApp messages.
	Sometimes asking me how it was going.
	We didn't do any sessions after because it was the amount that we agreed on.
	But he would contact me like, oh, how are you doing?
	And sometimes they would go into a conversation again and then they would pivot to the addiction and he would ask details and then they would be like, why do you need to know that?
	It was always dangling.
	Sometimes I would say like, oh, I can't do it with my business and it's not working out.
	He's like, yeah, I know how to fix it.
	For $2.50 per hour?
	He wouldn't say it like that, but that's what he suggests.
	He never lowered his price or something.
	No, man, it's got standards.
	You're a special person.
	You're such a special boy.
	I never met someone like you, and I'm very interested in you personally.
	That's why I'm staying in contact, but I'm not lowering the price.
	At some point, I was very lonely.
	I think it was beginning this year.
	He started a conversation with me around New Year, and he was one of the people who Wished me New Year out of the blue.
	No one else contacted me.
	So I was already a bit like softened towards him.
	And then I was desperate and lonely.
	It was a party and I felt alone.
	And then he started talking about the addiction again.
	And then he suggested, I said something like, oh, I like to be naked in the open.
	Just it feels free. Something like that.
	And then he was like, show me.
	and at that point I was like desperate and horny and stuff so I was like okay whatever if you want it when I get home so yeah he would suggest I do things in front of the camera And just watch.
	And the weird thing was, at some point I was, okay, maybe you're just secretly gay and you...
	He was married, by the way.
	And I was like, okay, maybe you just want to cheat and you just want some secret...
	Well, it's another dead marriage, like your parents, right?
	But he always stayed in that weird mental role.
	I was like, okay, if you just want to cheat on your wife, just go with it.
	Show you're gay, whatever.
	But he always stayed in the role like, No, I'm doing this for you.
	You are happy if people watch.
	So I'm doing this for you and I'm happy if you are happy.
	So next day I I said, like, okay, I don't want to talk about that anymore, and then I blocked him.
	But even then, I blocked him a few months later, because I hate blocking people, like, not giving them a chance.
	But people like this...
	No, but that's an anger boundaries thing, right?
	I mean, boundaries are painful for you, because whenever you try to have boundaries with your parents, you'd get attacked, right?
	Yep. So I never got angry with him, too.
	Like, I only got annoyed.
	But you did report him, right?
	Yeah, so I report...
	I'm talking to a lawyer that gives pro bono...
	Advice to people who have issues with like coaches and sexual...
	Okay, can I just make one suggestion?
	Yeah. If the lawyer starts asking you about your porn addiction, please change lawyers!
	That's my only...
	And listen, go after this guy because he could be doing it to...
	He probably has done it to a bunch of other people.
	There is one guy who suggested him from the group.
	I heard from others that he is still in contact with him.
	Man, I'm so sorry.
	I'm so sorry. For God's sakes, please go to somebody who's accredited somebody because that's so wildly wrong and exploitive and abusive.
	I mean, for my, yeah, it's not a legal judgment, of course, right?
	I think it could be, but I'm not a lawyer, but oh my God, I'm so sorry.
	That is a terrible, terrible thing to do to a young man who is looking for guidance and help.
	That is absolutely appalling and it's such a betrayal of trust and I'm so sorry.
	I'm so sorry that happened.
	Yeah, according to the law here, because normally it's like if there's no force involved, like no physical force, then it's not prosecutable.
	But because he is in a position of power as a mentor, then it does count.
	So I have some options, according to the lawyers.
	Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, there is a certain amount of, um, that's not what you were there for.
	Yes.
	You know, hey, privacy of your own home, consenting adults, I might find some of it particularly gross, but, you know, I've got better things to do than go around policing other people's private parts.
	But, you know, if you're going there for therapy and you're going there for mentorship and you're going there for guidance and, you know, there is an authority aspect to it.
	And then he's convincing you as a somewhat lost young man to perform these acts while he watches.
	And, I mean, that is, yeah, that to me is, it should at least be known, you know, even if it got to be prosecuted, it should at least be out there that this is, hey, you send someone to this guy, this might be going on.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	I'm so sorry. Again, I'm so sorry.
	Okay. So, yeah.
	So, I mean, I've got a podcast.
	I think it's in the 1920s in terms of podcast numbers, but you can find it at fdrpodcast.com.
	There's a whole search engine there, how to find a good therapist.
	It's not authoritative, but I had a bad therapist, a good therapist, and there's ways that you can figure it out.
	I have a whole podcast on that, but if it's somebody who is accredited, and, you know, I'm not a big one for government licensing and so on, but, I mean, this guy sounds like a real loose cannon, and I would definitely get somebody who...
	That's the thing, he's not licensed, so...
	No, no, I get that. Yeah, okay, yeah.
	I get that. Oh, yeah, man, if that was his license, I mean, if he was licensed, I can't even...
	What would happen to him would be...
	I don't know. Well, it's hard to say.
	The licensing boards are pretty random all over the world, but it certainly would, I think, be against best practices.
	Seeing the government's tendency to protect some kind of shady people according to sexual trafficking and stuff.
	Okay, well, listen, we've had a long, long chat, and I really, really appreciate your honesty and your frankness.
	And how do you feel about the chat?
	Yeah, I feel pretty good.
	It's interesting that it's completely different than all the staff talks I had in my head.
	Well, good. No, because if it wasn't, then there wouldn't be much point.
	Who wants to have a conversation when you know what the other person is going to say?
	Listen, real sympathies.
	Real sympathies for what you experienced and what you went through.
	And the fact that pornography, sexuality was associated with extreme humiliation for you as a child, but the bullies putting it in your backpack and your mom finding it and all of that.
	These are very bad associations to have.
	And I don't mean that it's bad for you to have them.
	Yeah.
	Yeah. It hasn't really come to pass, I suppose, which is good, right? It certainly might have got a great family life, and my career, while it has its ups and downs, has been mostly pretty positive, I think, at least for the world, for sure, and for me mostly as well.
	So I would say really have a review of your appearance and just see what it would be like.
	You know, you can try and say, just wear some normal clothes and then, you know, tie back your hair a little, you know, or maybe wear some normal clothes and wear...
	One of those flannel caps that I guess the Dutch people are fairly famous for and tuck it up and just see what it's like to be out there.
	You probably will feel kind of naked and vulnerable because you'll be moving in an entire different social circle or at least have the potential for that.
	So I would say stuff with the appearance.
	If you can't find a therapist right away, there's...
	Nathaniel Brandon, John Bradshaw, a bunch of other people have really good self-help books and workbooks and so on.
	The sentence completion exercises from Nathaniel Brandon are pretty good in my experience.
	So I would at least start to work on journaling and that kind of stuff and just work on what it's like to go out with a more normal appearance, work on letting this anger out, and don't confuse the anger with the hatred.
	The two are complete opposites.
	Complete opposites. Anger is, I'm going to get rid of something destructive in my life.
	Hatred is, I can't get rid of something destructive in my life, so I'm going to continue to rage against it until one of us is dead.
	Think of hatred more like the cytokine storm, the COVID patients, the immune system can't figure out.
	Where the virus is, so it just starts attacking everything and lays waste to internal organs, left, right, and center.
	Well, that's hatred. Hatred is I can't identify the problem, so I'm just going to, like you had hate normal, right?
	Hatred is I can't identify and isolate and eject the danger, so I'm just going to attack everything.
	And anger is much more focused and specific.
	Anger is a healthy immune system.
	You can think of hatred as a permanent cytokine storm.
	And if that helps you in an analogy, then don't confuse defending yourself against your father's hatred with being your father.
	The two are complete opposites.
	So anyway, will you also let me know how it goes with you?
	So yeah, I just wanted to say thanks again for the call.
	And please, please drop me a line and let me know how it's going with you, all right?
	I really care how this plays out.
	Thank you for listening and doing this whole podcast thing.
	It is my absolute pleasure.
	Of course, for everyone who enjoys and finds value in these conversations, please help me out.
	Maybe this is a big compliment for you, but normally I fall asleep during church, but I've never ever even...
	Come close to falling asleep during your monologues and speeches.
	That's great, and I'm also completely thrilled that it doesn't sound like you searched for any porn during the length of this conversation, which I consider to be an enormous honor, and I appreciate that.
	All right, take care, man, and keep me posted.
	Thanks so much for the call. - Great. - Bye. - Well, thank you so much for enjoying this latest free domain show on philosophy And I'm going to be frank and ask you for your help, your support, your encouragement, and your resources.
	Please like, subscribe, and share, and all of that good stuff to get philosophy out into the world.
	And also, equally importantly, go to freedomain.com forward slash donate.
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	So thank you so much for your support, my friends.

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