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April 20, 2020 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
50:08
HONG KONG #CORONAVIRUS: THE VIEW ON THE GROUND
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Hi, everybody. This is Stefan Molyneux.
So, boy, it really does feel like a lifetime ago that I was chatting in January to our good friend here from Hong Kong about China's Chernobyl, about the pandemic that was emerging back then.
It's great to chat with you again.
And thanks for taking the time this morning.
Thank you. Thank you.
Great to be on your show.
In a while?
I say this morning in an entirely Eurocentric manner because, of course, for you it's evening.
We talked about this months ago and things have played out, I guess, exactly as normal, sane people who understand the dangers of communism and collectivism Have predicted and how has it been in Hong Kong over the last couple of months?
I know that's a big question, but whatever you can do to give me and the listeners an impression of that would be great.
Well, I have been personally impacted by this epidemic, I would say, and as well as more importantly, I think the economic downturn that has accompanied or rather been triggered by this epidemic.
So I became unemployed around a month ago or so.
And so it's been hard.
Luckily, I kind of saw it coming.
So I did have quite a bit of savings.
So I'm not worried about that financially.
But at the same time, I'm seeing that this is a kind of an increasing trend.
Even the Hong Kong government does actually say that they expect the unemployment to increase and as a result they plan on hiring more civil servants.
About I think more than 10,000 more of those.
So it's a Nationalization there.
But moving on, I mean, besides the unemployment, there is definitely a sense of sort of worry, I would say, in the overall population.
But especially, I think, among my peers as well.
So I would say it's...
There's many contrasts to that because at the same time, like so many other people around the world, especially in the West, we're also doing a lot of home office work.
So what that means is that I think white collar workers, especially our office workers, are able to actually do most of their work at home.
And so for the most part, I think for a lot of people, I think four days out of five will be spent at home and working, and then they will usually have some Microsoft Teams meetings, Zoom meetings, if your company uses Zoom, especially if it's a Chinese company.
And so it's a bit...
On one hand, it's relaxing because you're in a home office environment, but at the same time, it's There's always this anxiety that, okay, will I be the next that will be laid off?
Because I did sort of get this feeling near the beginning of the year, or rather I would say when this home office exercise first began,
I did feel that actually it is quite a bit easier to To lay people off if they're not exactly sitting in the office and they don't really need an office for the most part except for meetings and everybody is kind of mobile.
So there was some anxiety there, I think, in that time.
But work aside, I would say that in In terms of the spending economy, it's definitely been a lot quieter.
For example, if you go to a restaurant, especially one of those really big Chinese restaurants that have a lot of round tables and then they occupy a lot of space, For the most part, those are literally closed.
But they're not closed by order, is that right?
It's just that there aren't enough customers?
Well, I think in the beginning, it was more because...
If you recall, there was this hotpot incident that happened.
So basically, there was a family of, I think, over 10 people, an extended family, and they had hotpot together.
And then the result was, I think, 7 out of 10 of them contracted the virus.
And I think, in fact, I think someone even died.
So that sort of triggered this mass panic in the...
Hong Kong population and sort of warn people off against, you know, these large gatherings that I would say most people would normally have had.
So there's this thing called like yum cha.
So it's like drinking tea.
But what that means is, you know, people are drinking tea and they're eating their dim sum and So that's basically what most retired or senior citizens do in Hong Kong.
And after their morning exercise, that's where they like to go for their brunch.
So it's a social gathering place.
It's a bit like playing mahjong, which is kind of like a social game or like a Card game of sorts.
Well, it's not really with cards, but you get the idea.
So you have these big gatherings that once previously occurred, but now they are all shut down.
And actually, the government order actually came a lot later than what people instinctually did.
So I guess I think it was partly because of the SARS experience, but more importantly, it was I would say a mistrust of government that sort of made people extra vigilant.
Like don't wait for the government order, just handle it yourself spontaneously?
Yes. Right, right. Yes, so people not only distrusted the government, I would say, this would be a significant population.
So according to the protest numbers, we had like a Back in 2019, we had 1 million people come out to protest and then 2 million people come out to protest.
And then that basically meant that there's this significant population that basically just distrusts the government.
We feel that not only are they not going to protect I think the interest of Hong Kong, but rather they will always put the interests of Beijing and the CCP ahead of the people in Hong Kong.
So depending on how How speculative you would like to be, some people would go as far as to say that they would actually prefer that Hong Kong has just as many cases as Guangzhou or Shenzhen or other places that actually were hit significantly harder by the epidemic.
You know, because they want to sort of level out, make everyone sink to their level.
So there was a lot of thinking there.
That was kind of the atmosphere.
And so everybody was very, well, everybody I knew basically were extra vigilant.
They not only started wearing masks, but They started to consider, okay, how long is this going to last?
Because of social media, you know, these messages just spread so fast.
And so I think Hong Kong U Medical School came out with this answer fairly quickly and said that, you know, prepare for a year.
I think it was nine months and it was a year and then it was something like 18 months.
Don't go to the sources, but then that's sort of the overall impression that we got.
I mean, I've heard people saying the same thing, that the cycle of the – I mean, there's going to be a bunch of waves and then it's going to be a permanent part of our health landscape.
And this doesn't mean, like, there won't be any food.
This doesn't mean to have food stacked up in your basement for 18 months.
But as far as any kind of return to, I mean, there's no returning to absolute normal before coronavirus, but returning to more normal stuff, more everyday stuff to plan for 12 to 18 months.
I've heard that. I mean, I've had a guy, Dr.
Cottrell, on my show talking about the same thing.
But I just want to emphasize to people, it doesn't mean that there'll be no food supply for 18 months.
It doesn't mean that. It just means to return to any kind of average life, about 12 to 18 months is a good place to start.
Yes, yes.
So I think there were some guidelines.
I think it wasn't from the government, but it was from a fairly authoritative source that most people should prepare to be, you know, in the worst case, quarantined.
For at least 14 days in a basically stay at home kind of situation.
So you should have food for that time.
So I think quite a lot of people actually did heed that advice.
And so some shortages occurred, I think around January or February or something like that.
Moving on, this is definitely a recurring issue.
So, for example, the latest one was actually with rice.
So, in case the Western media did not report this, but so Vietnam basically stopped exporting the rice.
I think that was around March or so.
And so that sort of, you know, Pushed up the prices quite a bit.
And so, you know, a lot of people were thinking for, you know, let's go and buy up the rice.
And then so overnight, a lot of rice was sold out.
And even now, we actually have significantly increased prices as a result of that.
And so there were two waves of that, actually.
One was, you know, the...
The Vietnam government stopping exports and then the second one was because the Indian government also stopped exports.
Now, that's not exactly directly impacting us because in Hong Kong, we have mostly imported the rice from Thailand instead of...
Actually, we don't really import from China because actually China Imports a lot of other foodstuffs as well.
So it's not exactly an export of everything.
So basically, there's Vietnam banning the exports and then India also banning exports.
And so we had the two waves of this rice buying spree, which actually makes sense because the prices have definitely gone up.
So, I personally have also stocked up for a few months, but I think that's more of a personal preference.
I just like to be prepared.
I like to have peace of mind.
And so, there we are.
But, okay, so buying sprees aside, what would an everyday street look like?
So, If you look at the statistics, I think for this week, we did have quite a significant drop in numbers.
So there is, I think, around single digit kind of confirmed cases.
So that's fairly low.
There's definitely not really a kind of community outbreak compared to, I think, a few months ago.
And so I would say that the consumers are definitely coming out again.
So the streets are fairly packed again.
But I would say that some habits have definitely changed.
So for example, people are definitely eating out a bit less.
So more people are ordering takeaways.
The government also actually mandated this This rule that there should be a minimum amount of distance between all the tables and the restaurants.
And I think they also, for a moment, ordered the bars to be closed and that no more than six people can gather.
Well, I think it was, no, sorry, it was four people.
No more than four people can gather in the same place.
And so it's really changed some of our habits, I would say.
Besides that, I would say that it hasn't actually been that disruptive.
Although it is still quite a bit of a hassle to wear a mask whenever I go out, I would say that at least 99% of people who are out in the streets are Are wearing masks these days.
Some are even wearing safety glasses, you know, so those glasses that are polycarbonate and they're rated to sort of stop some flying projectiles from damaging your eye, that sort of thing.
And so that's been selling quite well.
And that reminds people not to touch their eyes just as the mask reminds them not to touch their mouth and nose, right?
Oh yes, I would say that's the number one use of it.
It definitely prevents that kind of instant infection.
But at the same time, there's also people who are afraid of the weaker cases, like the minor vectors of infection, like airborne infection.
So we also have these hats that have these plastic sheets, you know, they're like face shields that a lot of these medical personnel wear.
And so that's been selling quite well as well.
It's not rare to see actually quite a lot of people wearing those, especially children, because I think people do care a lot about their kids.
It's harder to remind kids don't touch your face all the time, right?
Oh, yes. I'm sure that really helps, not only because of the aerosol and the sneezing issue, but also the hands, for sure.
But in terms of more extreme measures, we're not really seeing anything far more than that.
There was some advice that was given that people should wear waterproof jackets to Have an outer garment that is sort of easy to wash or just take off and wash and clean when you get home.
But I don't think that really caught on.
So I would say that the hats with the face shields was as far as it went.
In fact, I'm not sure if that actually came from Korea.
Yeah, because I think my earliest sighting of that was actually Let me just ask you about this.
The mood of the city as a whole, you told me of course that you've been dealing with some unhappiness in your life and people concerned about the future.
Is there a sense of, you know, it's tough, we'll get through it, get back to normal, or is there, there isn't going to be a normal to get back to?
I would say it is the latter.
But not really because of the virus.
I would say that there is a sense that in terms of the virus, you know, we do expect it to be coming in waves.
I believe we would be considering the current situation to be the crest, is it?
The crest of the third wave?
The peak, maybe. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yes.
Or the trough, is it the crest?
The trough, I think.
Trough being low, crest being high, yeah.
Yes, so it's low right now, so it should be the trough.
Yes, sorry. So I would say we're kind of at the trough of the third wave, but then that's...
Yeah, so we can deal with the virus.
We were referring to Hong Kong people, but the government is the real part that we can't really...
Well, first of all, predict.
And second of all, we don't feel that we have as much recourse to deal with You know, what the CCP is throwing at us.
Well, and this is the thing.
So, I mean, I've heard the theories.
I don't believe them myself.
Oh, China released this to deal with the Hong Kong protests and so on.
I don't think that that's true.
But I do think that given that the virus is out, governments both in Hong Kong, like pro-communist governments in Hong Kong, the communist government in China, are going to use the disruption.
And the inward looking nature of the Western powers to try and expand their powers over Hong Kong and to try and strike down the democracy movement, the demand movement and so on.
So it's not so much that they created it, it's just that if the opportunity is there, they'll really work to take advantage of it.
Oh, absolutely. I can give you actually the smallest example that came into my mind.
That we encounter quite, well, I personally actually also encountered, and that is the issue of actually police inspecting restaurants, certain restaurants in particular, to see if they're following the seating regulations.
So the thing about the tables and seating, that they must be a certain distance away from each other.
That's not more than, I think, Four to six people can sit at the same table now and that everybody has to have their temperatures checked before they enter the restaurant.
So we had this thing called this yellow economic circle.
I'm not sure how well reported that is in the West.
I've not heard about it, if that happens.
It's not really well reported.
So basically the yellow economic circle is a It's basically a group of businesses that originally started off supporting some of the protest actions.
For example, that could range from handing out bottles of water to people who attended the rallies and the protests.
Or it could go as far as to We actually employ some of the people who have been charged with some offenses related to the protests by the government.
So these businesses have chosen to take a political stance to be against or at least not to be pro-government.
They can range from totally objecting, for example, Article 23, which is basically banning freedom of speech in Hong Kong, or the earlier extradition bill.
So there were these businesses that stated their position very openly early on, and they have continued to state their position.
But at the same time, The government has been giving them a lot of trouble.
So one of these ways is to actually send police and health inspectors and also, I think, fire department personnel to check their things.
For example, their...
They're fire equipment.
Well, I mean, there's so many.
Sorry, I don't know what it's like in Hong Kong, but I mean, here in the West, the health and safety regulations, the fire regulations, the food inspection regulations are so complex that it's hard to say, yeah, come on in.
I know 100% that, you know, if they're looking for something, they can find something.
Maybe they can place something, but they can make your life better.
Pretty difficult, even if it's just 100% enforcement of every conceivable regulation.
And of course, these business owners aren't lawyers.
They're not experts in all of this stuff.
They have to know it to some degree.
But if they're going to come in and comb over everything, it can be pretty tough.
Exactly, and that's what they've been doing, what the government has been doing to many of these businesses.
So going there for multiple times a day and checking to see if their fire alarms work, or if they're following this regulation, or if they're taking people's temperatures, etc.
So the government is definitely taking advantage of this, both in very small areas, but also in Basically banning protests because going back to that rule about having not more than four people to sit and now I think not more than six people gather in the same place.
In fact, there was even this case that was documented that basically the police were conducting this mass Well, I would say quite the searches of a significant number of people.
And basically what that meant was they had this group of people basically facing the wall.
I think there was like tens of them.
And then I think later on, I'm not sure if they succeeded, but they definitely tried to also charge them with this public health law that That said that they were gathering in a group of more than six or four people.
And so it's just bordering on ridiculousness on one hand, but it's also very scary where this is going.
It's definitely worsening.
And the government is definitely taking every opportunity it can.
And of course, the things I mentioned are more of the small things that we can Observe every day, but of course, there's also some much higher profile incidents like Like the arrests that took place over the weekend of March B. Let's talk about that.
I mean, that struck me really hard.
And, you know, having sat across for close to an hour overall with Daniel Lee to talk about the history of Hong Kong and the relations with China, you know, such a wise and wonderful man to then have him, to see him scooped up by the state.
That's I mean, that's really chilling because they must have been waiting for some kind of opportunity because why not have done it before?
Well, I guess before there would have been more protests, but now people are kind of locked up and now he's locked up.
And I mean, gosh, was that a surprise?
Was there any indication that was coming or how did that play out?
Well, I would say that there were definitely no doubt.
No, I think, foreshadowing for this specific instance.
But at the same time, this is a tactic that they've used over and over again, they referring to the government.
So what that means is they will often try to...
Charge people and arrest them for some crime that they committed quite a long time ago.
And so it's a kind of way, I would say, to fundamentally, I think it's there to provoke the fear and also sort of scare people into not doing anything.
And so...
So, while there is no foreshadowing to this specific mass arrest, there definitely was a lot of talk and rhetoric about legislating the national security law, which I believe is even more than Article 23.
Now, I haven't exactly read what that says, But basically, it would mean, first of all, a censorship of social media and, of course, public media.
It would basically be the end of the freedom of speech in Hong Kong.
And so, in that note, it would sound quite logical that the next move was to Step up the intimidation of pro-democratic, pro-civil rights activists.
Yeah, you've got to get those people out of the public conversation if you want to pass something that is that nefarious, that nasty.
Yes. So actually, I would say that the two, I think, the most prominent figures were the media tycoon Jimmy Eli and, of course, Martin Li.
And Jimmy Lai actually is famous for running the Apple Daily, which has been a very...
Well, first of all, while it is a tabloid, it also has been in staunch opposition of the Hong Kong government.
And for many years.
I just want to point out that the tabloids are the populist arm of the media.
In other words, they're not these elite, really hard lefty slash communist like New York Times and other organizations that...
Claim to be more sophisticated, more professional, but the tabloids are the trump to the media's Hillary Clintons and all of the other supposed experienced and sophisticated journals that are just relentlessly pro-socialist, pro-communist, anti-freedom.
So I actually have no problem with the tabloids.
In fact, I view them as a very positive force in human communication.
Absolutely. I would also like to point out the massive contribution that Apple Daily and other tabloids have had in this Hong Kong political situation.
And that is, they have successfully made it, well, not only that, you know, made a lot of working class as well as people of all ages and And industries and social classes, etc., actually pay attention to the issues.
So they've made it accessible, made these complex political issues accessible to a lot of people.
While they never claim to be unbiased, and that's true, but in terms of making it also relevant to people, I think They are basically indispensable.
And for a long time, before we had actually more of a YouTube, well, it's not just YouTube, but alternative media and also social media platforms, that only just arose in recent protests.
Apple Daily is basically the...
The main, I think, the authority that has been consistently speaking out against what the CCP has done, not just in Hong Kong, but also in China as a whole.
So they've made the issues not only relevant, but also actually made it, I would say, They've really taken the stand.
The point I wanted to make was that they've really taken a hard hit for it.
For many years, they've been losing money, but they still continue to speak out.
The logical thing is they were losing money because they were being ostracized by the pro-CCP industries and companies that refused to put ads in their newspapers, in the Apple Daily newspapers, and also on their media in general.
And that's led to Basically, they didn't have very much revenue at all.
I know what it's like to have socialists target your entire character, history, personality, survivability economically.
Yeah, that's how they play.
Yes, and it's beyond that, the founder of Apple Daily, I think this SCMP article calls him a media tycoon.
Okay, that's quite true.
So besides cutting off his ad revenue and making him lose money for years on end, they've also tried to, I think, assassinate him and also had physical assaults and firebombing his house, etc. So they've done a lot of things to try and put him down.
It's strange to think that he could be safer in jail in a way.
Wow. Oh, yes.
But to be frank, I think nobody prefers to be in jail because nobody knows what's going to happen in jail.
It's out of the public camera.
Well, it's off the camera. So, yeah, basically, yeah, it's not going very well.
Sorry, no, I would like to rephrase that.
So the The CCP is throwing a lot of things at us.
Well, not just Hong Kong, I get it.
But in terms of Hong Kong, we are getting a lot of flack.
Recently, they've also tried to reinterpret the basic law, specifically this issue about the Article 22.
Article 22, I believe, and I'm really paraphrasing here, it basically states that the The central government should not be actually...
Well, it basically says that they cannot meddle in the affairs of the Hong Kong government.
Okay, so it basically says no government of the central people's government and no province, autonomous region, or municipality directly under the central government may interfere in the affairs of the Hong Kong special administrative region.
Basically, it's saying that the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region administers its own affairs.
However, they've tried to flip-flop on this and call this office that the CCP has in Hong Kong Where they sort of coordinate all the operations, the political operations to control the government.
I believe the English word is the liaison office.
So they're trying to control a lot of things, everything from the media to the newspapers to the social media to the public health laws, etc.
So they control everything. Now, obviously, that's really going against Article 22, but they're trying to tunnel under it and say that, oh, this liaison office of the CCP is not a department of the Central People's Government.
So, they're They're playing with words here all the time.
On one hand, it's very scary to watch, but at the same time, it's also pitiful and slightly funny even to see them improvising on this.
Sorry, you can see the same thing happening in the West that I don't know under what laws all of these restrictions on movement and gathering and worship and so on are occurring.
I mean, there's a governor in America who's like, I don't even think about the Bill of Rights when we put these directives in place.
And it's like, yeah, I guess George Bush the Younger was right when he said the Constitution is just a piece of paper.
And it is. It's not a magic spell.
It doesn't get up and enforce its own Edicts, it represents supposedly the will of the people and the restraint of the state.
But when people can't gather, when people can't protest, and when they're afraid of being arrested for something that they may have done a year ago or two years ago, it's a pretty big chilling effect.
And it's just a reminder that the laws don't enforce themselves.
And if people are willing to ignore them, and if there's not a That walking over this paper, this font, then the government can grow very quickly.
Absolutely. And it's really, I would say, getting quite out of hand.
But I would say it's exceeded the scale of what happened in 2019 in the sense that I would say that it is Quite difficult to protest in such a way as people did in 2019.
I believe that...
But that's mostly because the police have definitely had a massive budget increase as well as a personnel increase as well as training increase.
And so obviously they do learn from the From their experiences and they've definitely improved as well.
So I would say the main bread and butter or the core of actions of the Hong Kong pro-civil liberties, pro-democracy Movement, I would say, has definitely shifted towards two things.
First of all, ostracism, and second thing, boycott.
And the third thing is sort of a combination of the two, and actually really trying to set up basically a new economy that excludes the influence of the central government.
So that goes back to the yellow economic circle that I mentioned earlier.
So that's basically a lot of different businesses of different industries coming together and helping each other.
And they're all, I would say, united by common principles of not Depending on...
Well, not depending on connections to the government.
Not depending on...
Well, the basic is you don't support the violence that the government is perpetrating.
You don't buy into the manipulation that they're constantly doing.
And you're And not only that, they are also actually consistently trying to better themselves by being more transparent.
So this yellow economic circle issue is really quite complex, I would say.
It's already been running for a few months, so it's actually Grown up very quickly, I would say.
And the purpose is to just try and diminish the economic strength or impact of China in Hong Kong to boycott the businesses, to boycott anybody who may be doing business with the mainland?
Is that the goal? That is definitely part of the goal.
But the more important goal that I think they're What they're moving quickly towards is really rebuilding the local industries, the local self-reliance, self-sufficiency, manufacturing capacity to a certain extent.
Also providing employment to a lot of these activists or distants that basically now have criminal records because they got arrested and now it's really hard for them to find a job elsewhere.
So there's many goals, but I would say they are definitely connected by some common values, common principles of not depending on the government.
And also just helping each other.
And most importantly, actually, there's a lot of infighting as well that's recently gone on.
Some people attribute this infighting inside the yellow economic circle to the CCP because they have long tentacles everywhere and they have They have a lot of people who are slowly trying to influence things.
So they have a lot of media outlets.
They have a lot of public relations agents on a lot of these forums.
They have a lot of monitors.
And of course, they have the 50 Cent Army, which is basically the It's basically an arm of the propaganda department to further pro-CCP messages, or at least diminish anti-CCP messages.
I'm sorry, I'm still trying to figure out the second part of this.
So the first part is the economic boycott.
If you could just boil down the ostracism part, I'm having a little bit of trouble following this.
Oh, okay, sorry. Yes, so by ostracism, what that means is that The customers and the businesses will refuse to be clients or to consume from businesses that have It's a political...
It's an economic boycott based upon a political stance of pro-government, pro-Hong Kong, and so on.
Yes. I got it.
I understand. It's a non-violent, obviously.
It's a peaceful way of expressing opinions in In this current situation where it is absolutely, well, let's put it this way, it's never been safe to protest, but it's always, well, it's much more dangerous now.
So the overall movement of this pro-democracy, pro-civil liberties movement have I've sort of adapted to this and they've self-organized and really found creative ways to still speak out, but not, you know, through protests.
So now it's through offering value to others.
So it's about starting businesses.
So actually, recently, I would say there's quite a lot of actually new businesses that have been Being set up.
So for example, there's a new job seekers platform.
There's some new freelance platforms.
There's a new takeaway platform as well.
And all of these, they consider themselves part of this yellow economic circle.
And so the reason why I think people The reason I wanted to get into these industries was because I believe previously they were quite dominated by pro-government businesses.
So they've sort of decided that, okay, let's stop relying on them and let's see if we can do a better job, but also It's funny because this is what I talked about in my books about how society would spontaneously self-organize around social and economic and business ostracism based upon political perspectives.
This is all the way back to everyday anarchy and practical anarchy that I put out like, I don't know, 12 or 13 years ago.
So it's really fascinating to see these theories Come to life.
Let's just close off with this.
What is happening that you've heard of with regards to these arrests over the weekend?
Are people getting bail?
I guess there can't be much protesting going on, but do you know what the fallout has been of these arrests?
I would say that in some of the cases, at least, I believe that some sources have indicated that they were based on sufficient evidence in the sense that some of these pro-democracy activists were in protests that were not authorized by the police.
And in Hong Kong, if the The rally or the protest or the gathering is not authorized by the police, then it's technically illegal to be there.
So in that standpoint, okay, they can be arrested, but it remains to be seen to what degree they will face punishment.
But in the meantime, I believe at least some of them are on bail.
So that's good.
That's good. But I would definitely not expect these arbitrary arrests and releases to stop anytime soon.
In fact, I'm pretty sure it's going to intensify over the course of 2020, especially because we have the...
So we have like parliamentary or what we call it the Legislative Council elections coming up in September.
And the CCP are pretty scared of that because they know that they pissed off a lot of Hong Kong people.
And so they know that if they play this fair and square, they are going to get, well, the representatives or the pro-CCP representatives are going to get voted out.
And so they obviously don't want that.
So they're kind of in the rush to, you know, they've been backed up into a corner in a way.
And so they are really, I would dare to say, they are desperate to limit the freedoms of speech.
Well, and I mean, my concern is, of course, particularly with the US Navy being somewhat taken down by coronavirus and the US Navy being pretty key with regards to the relationship between China and Taiwan, that there may be more aggressive moves taken while the Western powers are struggling with coronavirus.
This China-exported virus.
So I am obviously concerned about that, as everyone there, that it may go from soft to harder power relatively quickly if they feel that there's an opportunity, and that opportunity does seem to be coming in many ways.
All right, but listen, I really appreciate the update, and let's not leave it so long before chatting again.
I do apologize for that, and stay safe.
I miss the city.
I love my time.
I'm glad that we had the chance to get more of the message out.
It is a shame, of course, that I was there at the tail end of the potential for protest because it was only a month after I was there that, according to some reports, the COVID-19 began to To spread.
But for those who want to see that documentary, I'll put the link below.
FDRURL.com slash Hong Kong.
FDRURL.com slash Hong Kong.
So thanks again. Stay in touch.
And I really, really do appreciate all the updates.
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