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Dec. 18, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:50:20

The Ultimate Secret: What Men REALLY Want!

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	Before we get started taking phone calls and everything, let us go ahead and introduce today's panel.
	First up, a man who needs no introduction, Stefan Molyneux.
	His website is freedomain.com.
	You guys can follow him on Twitter, at Stefan Molyneux.
	I still have no idea how to spell it, so you guys are going to have to fend for yourselves on that one.
	Just released a documentary, which we'll talk about here shortly.
	You guys can find that at FDR, as in Franklin Delano Roosevelt, URL. FDR.com forward slash Hong Kong.
	Again, that's FDRURL.com forward slash Hong Kong.
	Next up is Noah Ravoy.
	You guys can find his website at SMV as in sexualmarketvalue4k.com, smv4k.com.
	You can find him on Twitter at Noah Ravoy.
	Next up, of course, is the man known as DoomsdayJesus, DDJ for short.
	His website is misandrytoday.
	He would be on Twitter, but Twitter didn't buy the fact that he identifies as a female 94% of the time, so we're still waiting on that.
	Of course, also on the panel is none other than the CEO and founder of 21 Studios and the 21 Convention, Anthony Dream Johnson.
	His websites are 21studios.com and the21convention.org.
	Be sure to subscribe to this channel, which is the Redman Group, as well as his channel, 21 Studios, for exclusive content, video, and to sign up for 21 University.
	I, of course, am Donovan Sharp.
	You guys can check me out at donovansharp.com, at patreon.com slash donovansharp.
	I'm on the air all the time, every time.
	Gentlemen, how are we doing this morning? Doing well.
	Very well, thanks. Excellent.
	So what we're going to do is we're going to pick up where we left off last week when we were discussing the 22 convention.
	It is a convention for women by men.
	And we actually have three new guys here today talking about this particular topic.
	Norvoy, I think this is the first time you and I have done a show together.
	I want to open up the floor.
	I want to go to Stefan first.
	So just... At first, Blanche, when you hear 22 Convention for Women by Men, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?
	Mansplaining. Yes!
	I love it! Man-spreading.
	We're going to need four chairs for every man because we're going to be doing yoga on the chairs, just trying to keep the twigs and berries from mashing into mashed potatoes.
	So, listen, I mean, the idea, of course, that men have something to say that women need to hear goes very much against the narrative, right?
	Mansplaining is just an elegant way of telling men to shut up, pay your taxes, and die off early so we can inherit.
	So I think that it's hard for people to conceive of the fact that men do have things that they need to say to women.
	That's what I talked about in Orlando.
	Gosh, was it only last month?
	Wow. Time's flying in the internet.
	Yes, it does. So I think that when you say, you know, here's a convention for women where, you know, men have stuff to say.
	Well, of course, if you had a convention...
	For men where women were telling them things, well, I guess that would be a TED talk.
	Pretty much every TED talk, it seems.
	But, yeah, I mean, it goes very much against the narrative.
	And we are basically supposed to be taxed livestock.
	Just shut up and pay the bills and, you know, keep the power running and go down the mines and die off young and get addicted, you know?
	And so the idea that we have something that women need to hear...
	It's really challenging for people because that's not how it's supposed to work.
	I want to add on this, too, that I think Stefan...
	I was going to give a presentation at the Orlando convention recently that Molly was talking about, and it was actually titled Make Women Great Again as a lead-up to the 22 convention, Make Women Great Again.
	Stefan's talk, What Men Most Want to Say to Women, hit the nail on the head in so many ways that I wanted to that I actually ended up not even doing my talk.
	There are other reasons along with that, too, just running the event and the time invested in that and the attention and the focus.
	But his talk was killer for that, particularly the ending.
	That we need to tell women the truth.
	And that, I think, is what this convention is going to do at a scale that we've never seen before.
	With speakers like Stefan, Mike Cernovich, Elliot Hulse, and many other guys there, including Noah and stuff like that, here on the panel, and Donovan Sharp.
	So I'm really excited for that.
	And I really think that's what women need to hear, is the truth.
	And that we need to do that from a particularly masculine, fatherly kind of perspective, because that voice is lost in the West today.
	And Stefan nailed that in his speech, just incidentally, I think, at the 21 convention.
	But I'm really excited to hear what he has to say as well for 22Con coming up in the spring.
	Excellent. So Noah, this is the first, like I said, this is the first time I've done a show or broadcast with you.
	What are your first thoughts on the 22 convention?
	Well, I think it's interesting.
	The feedback I've got from women was that there are women that either love or hate the concept.
	And I think there are some women that will warm up to the concept the more they think about it.
	There has been a strong programming, as Stefan mentioned, for women to not accept the idea that men have anything that they can contribute to a conversation between men and women.
	And that's going to affect every single woman that's ever heard that propaganda, which is 99.9% of women.
	Maybe the Amish women haven't heard it.
	Everyone else... Everyone else has been semi-indoctrinated.
	And the power of indoctrination is that even if you don't want to believe it, being exposed to it will, to a certain extent, affect you.
	You can become resistant, but it will affect you.
	And I think that the counter to that propaganda is it can't be middle of the road.
	It has to be the exact opposite.
	And the idea that men have something to offer to women and ideas to offer to women is basically how Western society functioned through most of its history.
	We had a highly protective society.
	We, to a large extent, differentiated ourselves by how well we protected women.
	Our patriarchal culture, but patriarchal in the sense of benevolent protection of women and children, It's why, for example, it's why Athens left us so much literature and philosophy and art and history, and Sparta, who didn't protect women and children to a very good extent, left us with nothing but a bunch of rumors and legends.
	What we have to offer to this conversation is not to tell women what to do, it's to tell them the truth.
	They're going to have to decide what they do with that.
	No, listen, I agree 100%.
	I heard recently on a show that I did a while back, you can't make a woman submit to you.
	The act of submission is simply relinquishing control.
	You can't make a woman do anything she doesn't want to do.
	You have to make her want to do it.
	Big thanks goes out to Gravalite with the $5 Super Chat.
	He says, Thank you, guys. Not only are you responsible for me getting in this community, I am researching my first topic for a Red Pill podcast.
	That's what I'm talking about.
	Again, a lot of guys want to know what they can do to sort of change things.
	That is a very, very good way.
	DDJ, let me come to you with this question because...
	Obviously, women have such a hard time listening to men in any capacity, least of all anything to do with their sexual market value, how to be good in relationships, etc., etc.
	Why do women have such a hard time listening to men with regards to helping them not to self-destruct, which, of course, we know is their automatic programming?
	I really think it's because of the multi-generational destruction of the family.
	You know, we always hear about the trope of the girl with daddy issues.
	And the problem that you have with the multi-generational destruction of the family through the promotion of divorce, through the promotion of demonization of men, through the promotion of misandry of men, combined with The promotion of promiscuity culture, you basically destroy the whole idea that women should be anything other than a highly promiscuous feminist who should look at all men as suspect.
	So I think that the challenge that these women have is that, and you see this time and time again, you know, women in their late teens, in their 20s, sometimes in their 30s, they They run out and they, for lack of a better term, you know, the manosphere term, they ride the cock carousel, right?
	They're highly promiscuous or they marry for a while and then they dump their husband for somebody better and they monkey branch to another man.
	They do all these different things.
	And my whole view on that is that...
	This is definitely like what Noah said and like what Stefan has said many times before.
	This is a product of indoctrination.
	It's multi-generational indoctrination because these women believe the feminist lie, hashtag show alert, that they can have it all.
	You can go and have your career in your 20s, and then when your eggs are dead in your 40s, you can go ahead and have a kid, and that kid won't have autism.
	The women who are able to do that, they're the exceptions, not the rule.
	So when you're talking about why won't women listen to a man, it's because these women have been told that men are evil.
	That men are incompetent.
	And it's not just from the hidden Facebook groups.
	It's not just from the second wave feminists that have raised these women.
	It's from the media.
	It's from the government. It's from, you know, the American Psychological Association, for example.
	There are all these pseudo-authoritative sources that have gone through and they have done All the feminist man-shaming that you would ever want.
	And the problem is that, again, when these women turn 40 and 50 years old, the prominent ones will write articles going, gosh, I wish I didn't do that.
	Well, you can't turn back the clock.
	I read a story about two weeks ago where there was a woman who she went out and she got her Juris Doctorate degree.
	She was a lawyer or she was very prominent.
	Basically, she had a postgraduate degree.
	She was highly successful in her field and she bought into the feminist lie.
	You can go ahead and freeze your eggs.
	So she froze her eggs and I think she froze like 10 of them.
	Well, they thawed them.
	Five of them died during the thaw.
	Oh, Jesus. Four of them wouldn't take.
	And the last one, a month after she was pregnant, aborted.
	It self-aborted. And she's never going to have children now.
	And, you know, her seed is never going to be passed on to that next generation.
	So what ends up happening is that all these women, they're hearing all this misinformation, and they're not listening to the people who can actually tell them the truth, which are their fathers, which are the men in their lives, and men like the people on this panel here.
	So that's why they don't listen, is because they've been told not to.
	And frankly, they've been lied to.
	DDJ, I've always liked, too, your focus on the fall, not just of the nuclear family, but the extended family.
	So you mentioned fathers, but I think you also mean uncles and grandfathers and cousins.
	Yeah, let's dive into that for a second, because I think that the biggest lie in the feminist argument when you're discussing the ideology is they present the false dichotomy of being single and Versus the nuclear family.
	And really, that is a false framing.
	The reality is, and everybody knows this from Gen X back, and I'm coming up on 50 here, but the nuclear family doesn't survive.
	The nuclear family is not enough.
	You have to have the extended family.
	You have to have involvement of grandparents and aunts and uncles.
	You have to have, you know, these family gatherings where the extended family gets together, where people meet your cousins and you meet, you know, all the other people that are involved.
	Because that's what is a true family.
	When they talk about the nuclear family, all that is is a false reframe.
	And I've seen many people involved in nuclear families only to have those families fail because those extended families were completely destroyed We're good to go.
	This is your family. You should stand by your family.
	You should stand by your parents.
	You should stand by your grandparents.
	But more importantly, you should stand by your children.
	And while you teach them those lessons, and sometimes those lessons involve tough love, the point is that it's important to have those connections.
	If you don't have those connections, everything else fails.
	Everything else that you try to do fails because it all falls on deaf ears.
	And the only way – that's one of the reasons that I really value Christianity.
	That's why I value the Christian value system is because it values that extended family.
	Now, I'm not discussing the complementarianism that feminists have used to practice entryism into Christianity where the female voice is there.
	But I am discussing – yeah, but I am discussing that those Christian values make families strong.
	That's all I'm saying. If we look at the cultures where marriages are more successful, where families are likely to stay intact, it's cultures where there's a lot of social and peer pressure from family members and from friends to work out your problems and to take your marriage seriously.
	And that means that you make better choices when you enter into it because you're not looking at this as like, yeah, let's try this out and see if it works.
	This is a lifelong commitment.
	Those are the cultures that We're good to go.
	I totally agree.
	There is a terrible situation that's going on with regards to young women as well.
	The analogy that I will lay upon the world, the track that I will lay down, goes something like this.
	That, you know, the old saying that women are born rich and grow poor and men are born poor and grow rich, right?
	That's because women are born fertile when they're, you know, adults and so on.
	They're fertile and they're attractive and nubile and all that kind of stuff.
	And then, of course, they age and their eggs decline and all of that.
	90% of the eggs are gone by the time a woman's 30 and 97% by the time she's 40.
	Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, whereas men become wealthier and more experienced and we retain our fertility.
	I mean, certainly there's a decline in sperm quality, but it's not the same sort of cliff drop that the eggs have.
	It's sort of like you're a financial advisor and you're advising young women with a million dollars.
	And you know, you know for a simple, basic, mathematical, scientific fact that that million dollars is going to go to zero.
	And you tell them, hold on!
	Don't sell! Whatever you do, don't sell!
	Don't sell! Just keep playing that market.
	And it's like, you know!
	It's science, baby!
	Menopause is without prisoners, right?
	And so you know for a fact That their fertility is going to zero relatively quickly and you tell them to hold on, you tell them to hold on, you tell them to hold on.
	And then it crashes.
	Now, we're, of course, out there saying, it's going to zero!
	It's going to zero! Sell, sell, sell!
	Get yourself a good man, get yourself a family if that's what you want.
	But don't just wait because it's going to zero.
	And all of the other crappy financial advisors who, for weird, pathological, sadistic reasons, want to profit off infertility are saying, no, no, no, you can do anything you want.
	You're empowered. It's like, yeah, but you're not a time traveler.
	Yeah. You don't have that power.
	You don't magically get to rewrite the laws of physics and biology.
	There is grandiosity, this female empowerment to the point where I can step outside the arch of time and will my eggs youth through science.
	And it's like, you know, you can pursue all this science fiction, you know, egg freezing like you're going to get some baby Olaf or something like that.
	But why not just have kids when you're young?
	You don't need all this science fiction.
	Oh my goodness. Well said.
	Listen, there are a few guarantees in life.
	Death, taxes, and most certainly menopause.
	You're listening and watching the 90th edition of the Redman Group.
	We are sponsored by the 22 Convention.
	Hashtag Make Women Great Again.
	It's coming the spring of 2020.
	I think everyone here on the panel, with the exception of DDJ, is going to be at the 22 Convention next spring.
	Certainly looking forward to that. Steph, I don't want to stay with you here.
	We see all the time.
	We see proof all around us.
	We see articles. We see documentaries that feminism, living the feminist lie is indeed a lie.
	Like women see all around them that there are women in their 30s and 40s now freaking out because they don't have a man.
	Yet they continue to do the things that they do that's going to lead them down that path.
	Why in the hell are women ignoring all of this irrefutable concrete proof that the road that they're on is going to lead to ruin?
	They continue.
	Why do they ignore this stuff?
	Well, I think that women as a whole are somewhat incapable of being the kind of assholes that men are.
	What I mean by that is it takes a special kind of asshole to just push back against generally accepted social narratives.
	You know, to be that sand in the oyster shell that produces the pearl of wisdom, so to speak, to push back against the crowd, to stand in front of the rampaging mob and say, stop!
	You people are crazy and you're going to destroy things.
	That is a bit more of a male attribute, and that's because we, of course, have to roll the dice.
	Like, as I said in my speech, like 40% of men throughout history didn't reproduce.
	And so, you know, roll the dice, man.
	This is why we're risk takers.
	This is why we push the envelope, and this is why we push back against social norms.
	So if you aren't going to get laid in history, which was, again, close to half of men, if If you're not going to get laid, that's because of some prevailing social norms that exist, right?
	Whatever it is, you're an outcast, you're a rebel, you're an iconoclast, you're a weirdo, you're a freak, whatever it is, right?
	So if you're not going to get laid anyway, you have a massive incentive.
	To push back against the social narratives that stand between you and the treasured eggs, right?
	So pushing back against social norms is a perfectly valid, in fact, necessary reproductive strategy if you fit outside or don't fit inside the common social norm.
	So us taking on social norms, which is basically moral progress.
	Sometimes it goes wrong, of course, and you go the wrong way.
	But a lot of times you go right.
	You take on issues like slavery.
	It was a social norm throughout all of the 150,000 years of human history.
	Slavery was everywhere all the time, no matter what.
	And then some, quote, assholes came along and said, you know, maybe slavery is a completely immoral institution.
	And yeah, it took them half a century We're good to go.
	To push back against them.
	And this is why you get this kind of conformity.
	This is why I get tortured emails from women who say, I really, really want to just settle down with my boyfriend and have a family.
	But all the women in my life say that that's betraying the cause.
	And I'm going to be dependent upon a man.
	And it's going to be awful.
	And all the progress is going back.
	And it's like becoming a 1950s stepwood wife.
	And of course, a lot of men are like, well, people dislike what I do.
	Who gives a shit? I'm a dude.
	That's kind of what we do is not care about what people say so that we can build a path to a more rational future because a lot of culture is not great.
	Certainly at the moment puts the cult in culture, right?
	So women find it very, very hard to push back against social norms because biologically they were selected for their conformity with social norms whereas men have a huge incentive to take the slings and arrows of rhetoric against the standing sophistry of culture and try and carve out a piece for their own future.
	Right. Right. Well said, Stefan.
	Before I go to DDJ, Clarence W with the $15 super chat.
	I don't... It says CA. I'm not a currency expert.
	He says you guys are... Is that what that is?
	I'm not a currency expert, but I'm Canadian.
	Okay, very good. $15 Canadian dollars, I suppose.
	I don't know. It's like when you get those super chat in those weird currencies, and it's like $4,000!
	And you're like... $4,000! And then you get the conversion, and it's like...
	It's like $1.58.
	Oh, great. Appreciate that anyway.
	Somebody's emailed me from the Weimar Republic.
	Sorry, go ahead. Yeah.
	DDJ, add on to what Stefan said.
	You said you had something that would dovetail.
	And then, of course, answer the question, why do women ignore the irrefutable evidence that feminism for them is obviously the wrong thing to do?
	Well, first and foremost, I think in order to be an asshole like Stefan is talking about, you have to have a working sphincter.
	So that's number one.
	It's got to be functional. Number two, it's got to be functional.
	Right, right.
	It's got to be functional.
	And number two, just because you don't fit in doesn't mean you can't spit on it and try again.
	Right.
	And then number three, on a more serious note, I think that it's important to realize that even wives and married people are indoctrinated into promiscuity culture through this idea of cut culture and wife sharing and all these other different things.
	And I think I saw an article that was a reprint where they said, oh, give your give your wife a pass to cheat this Christmas.
	It was from a couple of Christmases ago that people are reposting on social media now.
	Those types of things.
	Yeah, so I mean, all these things that really are attacks on the family, I think they're extremely important.
	As far as women not wanting to listen to men when they have these conversations about the cold, harsh truth, the reality is, in my view, is that they see all these other women who appear to be successful, and all these other women who have supposedly cheated death.
	Like, who's the lady from...
	The lean-in author from Facebook.
	Oh, Sheryl Sandberg, yeah.
	Yeah, Sheryl Sandberg, right?
	They look at people like Sheryl Sandberg, and they're like, well, she had it all, so here you go.
	And nobody realizes that Sheryl Sandberg was actually married until she became CFO, and then her husband died.
	She didn't divorce him.
	She didn't abandon him.
	Now, granted, he died under mysterious causes, but we're not going to get into that.
	All I'm saying is that...
	Exactly. So all I'm saying is, is that when it comes to a lot of these women, you look at the women like the Taylor Swifts and everybody else, and they're all saying, look, you could be a pro NBA star.
	You could be a rock star.
	You could be a musician. And all these women believe it because it feels good to believe it.
	And then they go out and they make these instant gratification style decisions.
	They get the dopamine hit from it.
	And they're like, oh, this is what they must be talking about.
	And then they get addicted to the dopamine hits and don't forge strong relationships.
	And what I mean by strong relationships, I'm not just referring to romantic relationships or marriages or long-term commitments.
	I'm referring to strong relationships with family, with their mothers, with their fathers, again, that extended family.
	Because what happens is that, again, it's the culture of me as opposed to the culture of we.
	And so they see all these people out there and they're like, I can do that.
	It's like the big lie in the ghetto where every black kid, until they're educated, thinks, I can be a basketball star, or I can be a sports star, or I can do this, or I can be that.
	And they don't realize that all these people who play for the NBA or play pro football, that many of them have degrees, many of them work their ass off to get there, and many of them had to cultivate skill sets It's the same thing with women.
	Women think, like I said, they look at Taylor Swift, they look at all these other...
	Supposed feminist icons, and they're like, I can be like that.
	And the reality is, next to nobody's like that.
	Millennials can't even buy houses, okay?
	Nope. They're being replaced in droves by robots.
	And the reason that is, is because their focus is more on gender studies majors than STEM. And they're not going into the trades.
	So we have a serious demographic issue here.
	Where not only are they not willing to listen right now and they're focused on the immediacy of their instant gratification, but they're not looking at the long term at all.
	And so when the season changes and when winter comes, they are not ready and they're going to be outside and the homeless epidemic is going to be drastically increased, both psychologically and physically.
	Just real quick, we have to have a society that works for more than the.0001% of people with fantastic athletic ability, great looks, great singing voices, musical talents.
	I mean, it's great to hold those people up, but that's like saying that the entire geography of Mount Everest is like three snowflakes on the top, and it's not.
	We've got to have a society that works for everyone.
	And the socialists on the left, they used to at least pretend to care about the working class.
	And for the millennials, what they did was they saw their parents.
	I guess my generation, I was in the software industry in the 90s, and I got out because you could see this tidal wave of immigrants coming in, willing to work for cheap, willing to work for less.
	And so this whole, even you go into STEM and so on, but they just import people from other countries and you still can't get a STEM job.
	So, you know, we have a society now where the rich are getting super rich, the poor are getting poorer, or at least staying the course, and the middle class is being hollowed out.
	Well, I don't want a Brazilian-style, you know, top and bottom society with no middle filling.
	That's just a very unstable situation to get to.
	Yeah, you can't have the Twinkie without the filling, right?
	Yeah. Noah, let me get your thoughts on what DDJ just said.
	The proof is all around us, but then women, girls, they look at people like Taylor Swift, Sheryl Sandberg, Kim Kardashian, basically celebrity sluts who appear to have it all.
	They've got youth or what appears to be youth.
	They've got money, fame, celebrity, and they have a family.
	And girls think, I can absolutely do this too.
	What? Where do they go wrong?
	When a girl ends up at 37 years old and single, no family, no kids, her womb is barren, and she looks back and she says, you know what?
	Kim K did it. Taylor Swift is trying to do it.
	Why hasn't this worked out for me?
	Where's the disconnect happening for these women?
	Well, women are emotional amplifiers.
	So if they're fed some sort of an emotional signal, if it's at a 4, they'll turn it up to an 8 or a 10.
	And most of, you know, they weren't logicked into this belief.
	Sure. They were emotionally manipulated into it.
	Sure. Then they end up in this echo chamber with other women or, you know, at university with other, with their teachers as well.
	And that echo just keeps growing and growing and they amplify each other's, you know, it's like the go girl, you go girl, you go girl.
	And they're doing this back and forth to each other.
	And they're, they're ramping themselves up to an emotional and irrational state.
	And that's why it's so important, events like 22Con, that we go and we talk to them and we snap them out of that emotional state.
	I've had some people say, oh, you know, the message seems really strong and maybe it needs to be toned down a little, a little more soft and gentle for women.
	And we have a million soft and gentle messages for women.
	There are a lot of men out there trying to reason with women in soft and gentle ways and it's not working.
	And, you know, insanity is keeping doing the same thing over and over again when you know it doesn't work.
	We have to do something different.
	And we have to almost be a little shocking to snap them out.
	Yes. I mean, that's Stephon's tweets about Taylor Swift.
	They got the conversation going.
	Some bland, you know, mashed potato explanation is not going to get any attention.
	No. It won't get traction and it won't convince anybody of anything.
	A lot of young girls have come to me.
	Well, women like it rough. Yeah.
	That they do. That they do.
	It's not generalized to that extent.
	I've had women DM me telling me to prove me wrong.
	They want authorization To go get married and have kids and break against the popular culture slot that they've been put in where they have to operate.
	They want permission for that.
	They want someone to say, that's okay, you can make that choice.
	And they want a little bit of shock to get out of it.
	It's kind of like we have people in a cult.
	Feminism is a cult. If you have people in a cult, you cannot logic them out of the cult.
	You have to shock them sufficiently to get attention.
	And then you have to realize they're in the cult not for logical reasons.
	They're in the cult for emotional reasons.
	And you have to use that to pull them out.
	And we're hitting hard because we're facing a strongly entrenched concept and idea.
	And we're not going to get that out by being overly soft and gentle.
	There'll be a time for that.
	There'll be a time...
	Maybe in the future there'll be female speakers at some event that you organize, Anthony.
	Maybe there'll be a softer message at some point, but it's not something right now.
	It's just going to get lost. It's going to get lost in the noise.
	Anthony, we've got a call.
	We actually have two callers on the line, 404 and 24.
	We're going to come to you guys in just a second.
	Anthony, what are your thoughts on why women ignore irrefutable truth, irrefutable evidence that living the feminist lie is indeed a lie?
	Why do they still continue to live this life even though they can see all around them that this is obviously not the life you want to lead if you want to be truly happy?
	So I have two things on it.
	The first is that the other panelists here have hit the nail on the head every single time they hopped on this issue.
	So I only have so much to add in that direction.
	But what I do want to say is that women today, one of the reasons they keep doing what they're doing and they keep not listening to, you know, the evidence and these things like that and messages like from the speakers here is there isn't an organized.
	And that's what 22 convention is doing.
	There's not an organized count.
	Feminism.
	And when we interviewed Mike Cernovich, George Bruno interviewed Mike Cernovich at the Patriarch Edition of 21 convention earlier this year, they actually discussed that Mike Cernovich brought up that there's actually a total lack of what you could tentatively call it the femisphere.
	Like a manosphere for women.
	There's nothing like that today.
	Right.
	You know, for the manosphere, we have all these messages from the men's rights activists, from the red pill guys, from the MGTOW guys, whatever, and what we're doing.
	That's a positive message for men.
	The reason why there's a Manosphere and not a Femisphere is because the culture today works for women, right?
	At least it works for them in the short term.
	Well, they think it does, but it really just sucks them over in the long term.
	They're getting... Yeah, they're getting weeded out of the gene pool in the end, though.
	It's like, holy shit, and the culture is collapsing.
	What future does America, Canada, and the West have with masculine women and feminine men 50 years from now?
	It has no future. You're talking about politics, economics, and so on.
	Yeah, it's total collapse. There's no future without family and femininity and masculinity.
	Basically, men and women respecting their own nature as human beings.
	And feminism has tried to kill that, and it's done a really good job.
	With the lack of a femisphere, you know, we can only complain so much about the state of things today if we're not going to do anything productive in reverse, which I think we've done for men successfully, and we're still at the beginning stages of that, building the manosphere out.
	This is really positive, though. It's going really well.
	But for women, they need that, too.
	There is no organized, positive message today for women.
	There's nothing. And that's what Mike Cernovich and George Brunner were talking about, and that there needs to be that.
	And essentially, 22 Convention and Make Women Great Again is the first time that's ever being done.
	And it needs to happen not just once, but many times.
	Every year, an annual event, something like that.
	And like Noah was suggesting, I even want to do someday, maybe 2022, 2023, like a motherhood edition that actually has female speakers that talks to young women about becoming a mother someday.
	I actually went to, when I went to Poland earlier this year, scouting for the convention we later had in the summer, the hotels and stuff like that.
	Wow.
	Wow. I've never even heard of it until then.
	I just mentioned that in the Twitter engagements that I've been having lately, it's really creepy the way that motherhood is talked about.
	And I don't know if this comes out of sort of this, you know, fifth wave feminist nonsense or whatever, but the motherhood stuff is really creepy.
	In other words, they talk about motherhood like, oh, women are more than just incubators.
	They're more than just broodmares.
	You know, like the sum purpose is fertilization and egg production.
	Like, that's how, like, a Terminator would look at that and say, no, too cold.
	That's too cold. Like, I can't, even my, even my...
	Programming can accept that completely sociopathic view of women and the idea that motherhood is just breeding and popping out crotch goblins as they've been referred to, which is tragically funny because you shouldn't laugh at it, but it's a little funny.
	I mean, it's absolutely monstrous.
	And to me, it tells you a lot about how these women, in general, it's women who refer to this stuff.
	It's like, well, would you refer to your own mother as just a breeding machine, as a broodmare, as a robotic incubator of new species?
	I mean, this isn't the matrix, for God's sakes.
	This is human beings where we invest in our children and train them in virtue and civility and reason and negotiation.
	And the idea that having children is just like being some biological photocopier and then you walk away.
	It's like, we're not freaking frogs, for heaven's sakes.
	We do. We tend to try and stay with our young, at least we're used to.
	But this view of motherhood, as you're just being roped into, like, under his eye, like some handmaiden's tale nonsense, that just being roped into breeding the next generation, it's like, good heavens, what a monstrous view of parenthood, and what a destructive view of family.
	I think that's overcorrection of the rhetoric.
	And I think that that is in response to the overcorrection to feminism.
	The manosphere and the red pill doesn't exist without feminism.
	And feminism has just become so extreme.
	Just like Noah said earlier, if we're going to get the attention of men, we had to be extreme.
	Ergo, the Manosphere, you know, guys like Stefan, Noah, Anthony Johnson, myself, etc., etc.
	So then women hear this overcorrection and they respond to the overcorrection with a disingenuous extreme example, right?
	Well, we're not just incubators and blah, blah, blah, blah.
	Well, the reason why men use that kind of rhetoric is because women in the 60s and 70s, well, we only need men for their wallet and their sperm.
	So if they want to reduce or sort of marginalize our biological importance, we sort of responded and said, okay, well, if you want to use us for just our money and our sperm, then we're just going to use you for an incubator.
	And now they're all butthurt.
	And now they want to point their finger.
	Well, you guys started it.
	No, sweetheart. This has been going on since, like I said, for the last six decades.
	So I think it's an overcorrection to the overcorrection.
	Nora, I'll give you the last word before we hit the phone lines here.
	Yeah, you were mentioning that there's no positive women's sphere, you know, equivalent to the manosphere.
	And that's because the manosphere is men horizontally organizing to deal with something that we see as a threat, not just to ourselves, but to the future of our civilization.
	Whereas the women's movements have always been top-down.
	A very small elite, which is, by the way, mostly men, in certain positions of power controlling men through women.
	So they organize women and weaponize them against the masses of men.
	And this is why they don't have any kind of grassroots organization because their entire Their grassroots organization was the Mother's PTA meetings and the Mother's Home Associations that were in the church in the past.
	That was their grassroots movement.
	And they don't have that anymore.
	It's been completely destroyed by the synthetic, top-down movement.
	And you're absolutely right.
	It needs to rebuild something that women actually are somewhat in control of and that is not a part of the manipulation that they're facing right now.
	We have to have some empathy for women, too.
	They're facing a ridiculous amount of manipulation, and the boomer men didn't do anything to counter it.
	Zero. They did nothing.
	We blame women 100% for this.
	There were things that the boomer men could have done to counter this.
	There were things that even their parents could have done to counter this.
	It had to wait until we came around.
	In order to counter it. And even then, you know, this is going to be a multi-generational thing.
	This is something, I got three sons, I'm preparing my sons for this.
	And this is not something that, you know, we're going to have, it's going to be men that are going to have to take the lead in undoing this.
	And there are a lot of women who will join us.
	There's a lot of women. Let me just pull ball privilege for a second here, which is before the internet, it was really tough to push back because the gatekeepers of the mainstream media was so absolute and so united.
	And the leftist communist long march through the institutions had been enormously successful.
	So prior to the internet, I was a novel writer.
	I wrote plays and so on.
	And they were incredibly well reviewed.
	One reviewer who actually had a PhD in literature called one of my novels, finally we have the great Canadian novel and so on, couldn't get it published to save my life because it was pro-facts about gender relations and it talked about fertility windows and so on.
	It was a very funny novel. It's called The God of Atheists, but you just couldn't get it out there.
	So for the boomers, there was this wall that's hard to perceive if you're like a post-internet kid, because now, of course, we could just have these conversations.
	They can go out to hundreds of thousands or millions of people over time.
	But in the past, man, you just couldn't get it out there.
	It was really, really tough.
	You know, where things I think could have been more helpful is, you know, back in the 50s under McCarthyism and so on.
	But McCarthy did receive a lot of support and it's pushed back against the long march through the institutions.
	But it's really, it was tougher for the boomers.
	I have my criticisms of the boomers, but it's hard to know just how hard it was to get information out pre-internet.
	On the issue, Donovan, before we hit the phone lines, on the issue of motherhood, I just wanted to say that feminism has gotten so radical and insane that traditional motherhood is like a new counterculture, or it's becoming a new counterculture for women, which is crazy.
	I mean, that's ridiculous. Young women having babies should be absolutely normal, and certainly biologically and within nature it's normal, but we've actually, you know, it's been destroyed by feminism.
	And regardless of who, you know, you want to analyze feminism, men, women, involvement, and support of it over time, feminism has absolutely pushed for that, and it's disgusting.
	It needs to stop. It needs to end.
	It used to be science fiction that you would need electricity and massive amounts of science just to produce a living being, a la Dr.
	Frankenstein, but now that seems to be kind of the norm of what people are aiming for.
	You know, they We need to call down the lightning of the skies and the cryogenic freezing of the gods in order to just create a life, you know, where you used to just basically have sex and nine months later you got a human life.
	Now you need like a PhD in physics and you need to stand on top of a black and white metropolis sound set screaming, it lives!
	It lives! We may have wandered off the basics a little.
	Alright, do you want to do some calls? Yeah, yeah.
	914-205-5356.
	That's the number to call if you want to get it on the show.
	If you're calling from outside of the US, it is 001-914-205-5356.
	Let's go to area code 404.
	Area code 404, you're on live with the Redman Group.
	Go ahead. Hello?
	Yes. Oh, hello.
	I just want to say hello to Stefan, a big fan.
	And I just want to ask real quick, Do you have any chance to have a website I could find so I can keep listening without using my phone?
	Do I have a website that you can keep listening to without using your phone?
	Go to YouTube. Just download the YouTube app and search Redman Group and you'll be able to listen and watch this live.
	Redman Group? Yes, the Redman Group.
	T-H-E, Redman Group.
	There we are. Alright, thank you.
	Okay, no problem. Alright, let's go to area code 248.
	248, you're on live at the Redman.
	Let's get some tech support. Yeah, right?
	Hey, what's up? Just wanted to stop in and say hi.
	Say, Malimim, I love your work.
	Just be more red-filled on the timeline.
	That'd be nice. Get more engagement.
	I'm going to keep this quick.
	I'm going to lead up by saying... Women are not worth anything.
	Men, don't worry about them. Simps are cringe.
	First of all, we do have to listen to that kind of bitterness.
	Of course, I don't agree with him.
	I'm happily married. I've got a lovely daughter.
	Women are fantastic.
	Women are, as I've said for many years, delightfully incomprehensible.
	But yeah, there's a lot of bitterness out there.
	And I mean, I think we need We need to accept and absorb that and try and work with it because a lot of people – I saw something in the chat where a guy said $100,000 for 50-50 fatherhood in legal bills.
	The family courts, the radical feminism, the reality that it's hard for a quality man to get a woman to – To settle down and to commit and so on because this hypergamy is kind of out.
	Hypergamy plus the state is like the end of everything.
	And so there is a lot of bitterness out there.
	And my initial impulse is sometimes to just condemn it.
	But, you know, we got to listen to that kind of stuff because these people are in serious pain.
	And the listening and the sympathy, I think, really does help.
	DDJ, I want to come to you with a sort of piggyback off of what Stefan says.
	If you look at your screen, Joseph Poore, and I think this attitude is prevalent among a lot of men.
	He says, the female imperative and gynocentrism runs too far deeply in the West.
	I'm not saying lay down and die, but fighting it feels almost like a Sisyphean task.
	What are your thoughts about men who say, listen, man, women just aren't worth fighting for or trying to correct it.
	Feminism is too deep rooted.
	It's useless.
	It's futile.
	What's your response to that?
	Well, I'll be honest with you.
	Two years ago, I thought exactly that.
	When you looked around two years ago, you were like, wow, this is a cesspool.
	And really, there's not a lot that's there.
	I mean, don't get me wrong.
	I am a man going my own way, but I was married twice.
	I do have four children.
	I do have two grandchildren.
	And I both divorced divorces.
	And I wish I had only spent $100,000.
	But that said, I don't hate women.
	And I don't think that...
	I used to believe the feminist lie that to oppose feminism you had to oppose women.
	And then I educated myself a little bit more and I realized, well, feminism is an ideology and there's just as many women who oppose it as there are men.
	And so as I educated myself and as I pulled myself out of this echo chamber, I started to realize that You know, it's not that women are worth saving or not worth saving.
	I think that's a false frame.
	I think it's the fact that society is worth saving.
	I see a lot of guys in the MGTOW community that, you know, the biggest thing is, you know, nobody wants to burn their shit for warmth, but yet that's exactly what's being taught.
	And just because, you know, just because, you know, you want to, you know, prep and you want to do survivalism and you want to do the other things, I do some of that.
	I do some bushcraft. But you still have to be part of a community.
	You still have to be part of a society.
	And you still have to be a functioning member of society.
	You have to be a productive, taxpaying, working individual.
	Well, part of that means that you need to, as an adult male, as a responsible male in your country, you need to involve yourself necessarily in politics.
	You need to vote. That's your civic responsibility.
	And I think that there are civic responsibilities that are here that are important.
	And I think that if we are to save society, Not only do we need to save men, but we need to save women as well.
	And what I mean by that is saving them from the indoctrination.
	And one of the things I talked about in a video, I don't know, a few months ago.
	It's been a while now. I've been embroiled in this lawsuit, so I've been a little bit distracted.
	But I talked about the red pill blind spot.
	And the problem that you have is that there are people in the manosphere who, they have the t-shirt that says, I'm red pill.
	Or they have the t-shirt that says, I promote men.
	And they don't. And what they do is they're promoting a cult of personality and they're promoting this idea that, well, you know, nobody's worth saving.
	Go ahead, embrace the decline and take as many black pills as you can.
	That's a mistake. That's a complete mistake.
	And I think that when you look at it from that perspective, You all of a sudden start taking it from a me versus them mentality when the reality is that at the end of the day, it's like that movie in Beautiful Mind, you know?
	If we all work together, we all succeed.
	And that's the issue.
	I'm not talking about the socialist line by any stretch of the imagination.
	But what I am saying is that if we are to protect society, if we are to protect our culture, And I'm not discussing race here.
	I'm discussing culture.
	But if we are to protect our culture, then we have to do things to promote our culture.
	And if that means promoting women who get married and promoting marriage and shaming those people who don't support the idea of marriage to protect the culture, at some level, that's what we have to do.
	And what you're seeing is, and like what Stefan has said, and I've been through this myself with two divorces, Men are hurting because men have been indoctrinated since time immemorial that their job is to be the provider, is to be the husband, is to be the father, is to be the one who promotes his family.
	That is ingrained in the male identity, not just culturally, but biologically.
	And so what happens is when your relationship gets destroyed, like my second marriage died after 21 years.
	That's a huge blow to your identity.
	That is a huge...
	Yeah, it's a lot of years.
	It's more than two decades.
	And so when you're with someone that long, you're with them half your life, and then you see that relationship self-destruct, that's a huge issue.
	And the problem with the family courts isn't that the family courts...
	I want to make this abundantly clear, too.
	It isn't that the family courts are inherently evil.
	It's that they are creations.
	They are the spawn of feminism and socialism.
	And they have been engineered by design to keep women off of welfare by divorce raping men.
	And if you don't believe me, go look at Title IV-D of the Social Security Act.
	It created the child support enforcement system that destroys so many men's lives.
	And again, I'm not saying for a second that men should not be responsible for their children.
	I was a single father who raised my children by myself for over eight years.
	That's not what I'm saying.
	But what I am saying is that when we talk about this idea of these men...
	Who are super extremists and they just hate women.
	The reason that they hate women is because they are in pain and they haven't processed it.
	It's that red pill rage.
	And I talk a lot about this in that not only is that red pill rage damaging, but the problem is, is that once you've had it, You risk going back into it because it's a form of PTSD. I think Anthony called it in another stream we did, he called it complex PTSD. And that's really what, at some level, what this is if you really want to look at it from a psychological viewpoint.
	So while these men need to be supported, They definitely need to be challenged when it comes to some of this stuff because there are people out there that are misguiding men that are like, oh, you should leave women alone.
	You shouldn't talk to women. You shouldn't have female friends and all these other things.
	But these are the same men that in their Discord servers are simping to traps and other unhealthy behaviors.
	So, I mean, there's a lot of stuff that's going on here.
	And even though there's a lot of people in the MGTOW community now who basically they're misguided at some level because they're looking at the wrong enemy.
	The problem is that they're not doing themselves any favors by withdrawing from society completely.
	There are many historical examples of MGTOW men who, before the term MGTOW was ever created, who contributed to society, who contributed to technology, who contributed and did great things.
	But again, you know, the idea that we should hate women at best is misguided.
	Well said. Let's hit the phone lines here quickly.
	Area code 970.
	You're on live at the Red Man Group. Go ahead.
	Hello, this is area code 970.
	This is John Davis.
	And I just wanted to call in.
	I've been listening to the previous conversation.
	I think what the gentleman was saying is very true.
	I think... One of the biggest problems is we need to stop looking at men and women because that just divides us.
	The problem with divorce courts and what's driving MGTOW is a really inferior system of family courts that are run by poorly trained, poorly educated, and incompetent judges.
	When they aren't able to ascertain what is the truth about accusations of abuse or Things of that nature.
	They tend to just take a guess based on stereotypes and their own prejudices and biases.
	And I think that that is driving a lot of the problems between men and women because divorce should be a safe outlet for people to let themselves out of abusive relationships or relationships that become destructive.
	And what they're turning out to be is divorce is a destructive element in itself.
	In many cases, it's something that allows people to simply advance themselves in a game of marriage and what we call hypergamy.
	Or it's a way of harming the other person by isolating them from their children or taking what their rightful earnings are over a period of life.
	And for men, that can be particularly devastating because men make long-term commitments in relationship with women, and they invest heavily early on in that relationship and throughout the entire extent of that relationship.
	So certainly when they're divorced, it's a form of alienation and certainly can create post-traumatic stress disorder, but more commonly, Will create major depressive disorder that requires a lot of medical intervention and years of life intervention to reverse.
	That's a very good... Thanks for the call, area code 970.
	That actually seamlessly segues into MJA12685's question directly for Stefan.
	Given what we just heard the caller talk about, he's so eloquent...
	I mean, I could not have put that any better myself.
	He says, honest question for Stefan...
	Are women even capable of becoming great again, knowing their default nature?
	It's my assertion, Stefan, that a woman's default programming is to self-destruct.
	Anything that they are given sole control over, they destroy.
	Their children, themselves, single motherhoods, the single life, etc., etc.
	What are your thoughts? What's your answer to this question?
	Are women capable of regaining their former, I guess, greatness, knowing their culture?
	Absolutely. Yes, absolutely they are.
	And the idea that there's some fixed human nature that exists independent of immediate incentives is a complete fantasy.
	What we are is adaptive.
	Like, I don't go to Jamaica and just burn up in my half Irish, half German crispy skin.
	Because I just put on some sunscreen, for God's sakes.
	You know, we can adapt to our environments.
	And if you look at, I don't know, like a bunch of factory workers under Stalin in the 1950s, you'd say, well, human nature is to be lazy and unproductive and show up to work late and not care about the quality of your job.
	It's like, no. Because they had no economic incentives to work hard, as the old saying went, we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us.
	So the idea that there's some human nature that exists independent of incentives is absolutely false.
	The reason why there are so many problems at the moment.
	Did we lose Stefan? No.
	I can see myself here.
	Can you guys still hear me? He's freezing up again.
	Yep, okay. Since I'm on the show.
	All right. Oh, there we go. All right, cool.
	If I can play devil's advocate...
	I'm so sorry to be annoying.
	Let me just finish my real point now.
	I'll be real quick. Okay, sure.
	So the reason why female and male relations are so bad is because there's this massive amount of government debt, this massive amount of government spending that goes against the entire nature of the gender bargain, right?
	The gender bargain is that the Traditionally, the woman provides housekeeping and sexual access and raising children and transmitting culture and all of these wonderful things that women do, and men in return provide resources.
	Now, of course, the government has stepped in and is forcing men to provide resources to women they have no genetic relations to, no particular approval of.
	And that has completely destroyed the family.
	Like, you destroy work incentives, you destroy productivity when you massively subsidize a business or protect it from market competition, as happens in socialism and communism.
	And you massively destroy the family when you subsidize poor female decisions and punish poor male decisions extremely and subsidize poor male decisions.
	And so we don't have a situation where we can just look at female nature in the current system, in the current system of forced redistribution and say, well, you know, a woman has a huge incentive to divorce a man because she'll be massively paid to do so.
	She can destroy and harm him and so on.
	In the 1960s in Canada, you needed an act of parliament to get divorced.
	What is female nature?
	I'll say, well, it's corrupt and hypergamy and monkey branching and promiscuity.
	It's like, yeah, go tell that to the Amish women where the divorce rate is 2%.
	Why is the divorce rate 2% among the Amish?
	Because there's no welfare state.
	Right.
	So we can't we just can't look at the current system that is heavily controlled by the state forced redistribution, massive amounts of debt and say, well, that's female nature.
	It's like, no, that's not female nature.
	That's female adaptation to extremely corrupt and unsustainable system.
	Okay. If I can add on to Stefan's thing here, it's a little bit too.
	Stefan, almost like devil's applicator, I've seen you talk in the past in some of your videos on your channel about the correlation, and obviously correlation is not causation, but correlation from women getting the vote in America to the national debt, which has skyrocketed since approximately that time.
	So can you talk to me about the relationship between the insane national debt America's gotten into since women got the vote With regards to what you were just talking about, because it seems to be a big thing, like can we even survive, like you mentioned in your speech, can we survive peace and plenty as a species?
	And what about women voting?
	That's yet to be really seen if that's a good thing or not.
	I mean, to go straight politics, I mean, I believe that the ultimate value and virtue of our society needs to be a society without a government.
	A government is the modern transition from slavery to tax serfdom, and a government is as immoral in the long run as slavery both was and would be in the present.
	So, when you give women the vote, then women have particularly misaligned priorities relative to economic and social freedoms, right?
	So, a man can abandon his children, a woman pretty much can't, right?
	And he turns out to be a drunk or a wastrel or a promiscuous or whatever, and she's got two or three kids.
	She can't sit there and say practically, well, there are these abstract principles of private property and this and that.
	She's like, hey, man, I got to feed my kids.
	You know, this thing that women say whenever you talk about cutting a government program, you know, who's going to take care of my kids?
	How am I going to feed my kids?
	How am I going to get my kids health care?
	They can't put those decisions off.
	Men, in general, can, for right and for wrong.
	So men generally tend to deal in more abstractions and long-term planning and so on.
	But women have this conveyor belt of food and shelter and medical care and so on that they need to provide to their children, and they can't wait.
	They cannot wait. A bachelor can put off eating.
	A parent cannot put off children eating.
	They might die or they might, you know, have...
	That's why you call the welfare state the single motherhood state.
	The welfare state is a single mother state.
	So when women get the vote, they want security over freedom.
	When men get the vote, they want freedom over security.
	And of course, men bought the vote by being subject to the draft.
	What did women have to subject themselves to in order to get the vote?
	Well, nothing. I think it was Wyoming who just – it was a sausage fest in Wyoming and they wanted to lure women in so they just offered them the vote with no particular requirements.
	Well, a lot of women used to oppose getting the vote because they thought they'd get drafted and then the feminists were like, no, we can have our cake and eat it too.
	What Stefan said, security over freedom.
	Not getting drafted, that's a form of them wanting to stay secure.
	I totally agree with that.
	Noel, what are your thoughts on, because taking away women's voting rights, that seems to be sort of a red pill slash MGTOW battle cry.
	We take away women's vote, we take away women's right to vote, we get our country back.
	Just to be clear, not mine.
	I'm not making that call. Okay.
	To be clear, disclaimer, Anthony Dream Johnson does not endorse taking away the women's vote.
	He does endorse taking away her virginity.
	Go ahead. Do they have a right to vote, or do they have a privilege to vote?
	Ooh. Rights are something you earn.
	You earned your rights, okay?
	Okay. You're able to hold and maintain them.
	That's a controversial view of rights, I think, but especially when it comes to positive rights, such as the right to decide whether your country goes to war or not, if you don't have skin in the game, what did you do to earn that right?
	There's this binary, take away votes or not take away votes.
	There are other alternatives.
	There are the option to have houses where, you know, On things that women have skin in the game, they'd have a vote.
	Going to war, they don't have skin in the game.
	They, on average, as Stefan's pointed out before, they pay a net negative in taxes.
	So, you know, men pay most of the taxes, women collect most of the benefits.
	Maybe they don't have a vote on saying how the budget is spent, or maybe their vote is proportional to how much taxes they pay.
	Or maybe just net taxpayers get the vote, which was the original system, right?
	Yeah. And let me jump in here, too, because I think this is a thing that's been going around for a while.
	This actually started on TFM's channel a couple years ago.
	Okay? So let's be real.
	And this is my view.
	And I agree with Stefan here.
	If you're a net taxpayer, whether you're a man or a woman, I don't think that we should be having the conversation, should women be allowed to vote or should they not be allowed to vote?
	Do you have skin in the game, like Noah was saying?
	Do you have skin in the game?
	Are you a net taxpayer?
	Do you contribute to society or are you some sort of welfare recipient?
	If you are a welfare recipient, you should not vote, period, because all you're going to do is vote for more free shit.
	You're not going to vote for any kind of anything that's going to create any level of self-sufficiency.
	And anytime somebody requires you or wants you to have any level of self-sufficiency, or they want to have you have some natural consequences for your lazy behavior, that's a problem.
	That's why they voted all down.
	So I think that when it comes...
	Who should vote? Who should not vote?
	Number one, it should be net taxpayers.
	Number two, it should probably be homeowners, people who contribute to society.
	We should stop giving everybody a participation trophy for not contributing to society.
	And we should start giving people who have skin in the game an opportunity to take the country back.
	Because that's really what's been happening.
	It's not just happening in the United States.
	It's happening in Canada. It's happening in the United States.
	Across Europe, it's happening in Australia.
	And you have all these people on welfare and all they're doing is voting for more welfare and you're bankrupting an already bankrupt system.
	So when you have skin in the game, absolutely you should be able to vote.
	If you are a veteran and you have served in the military and you understand what the cost of war is, yeah, you should absolutely be able to vote for those particular things.
	But if you're collecting welfare, if you're sitting at home in your mom's basement playing the Xbox and talking about how women are horrible people, or you're working at a gas station and you don't get a vote.
	You don't get a vote. I don't care if you're male or female.
	Because I'll tell you what, I've known women who are doctors and who are lawyers and who are nurses, and they're highly skilled in their fields.
	And those women, they contribute.
	They're net taxpayers. They should vote.
	They have skin in the game.
	Many of these women are very patriotic, and so they support the military.
	They have children in the military.
	Their husbands were military or are military.
	And then you have these, there's men out there, for lack of a better term, Have no drive.
	They're drug addicted. Or, you know, they've made poor decisions in their life and they can...
	And they're like, yeah, let's take away the women's right to vote so I can lord power over them.
	And it's like, no! Well, we also know the basic equation that women who are married tend to vote for smaller government and women who are unmarried tend to vote for bigger government because, again, if a woman is married to a man, then her resources are generally coming from him, which means higher taxes reduce her household income.
	Whereas, of course, if a woman is single, particularly if she's a single mother, her income is generally coming from the government.
	So she has no problem with bigger government.
	In fact, it benefits her.
	And that's another reason why they want to destroy the family is that you can get people addicted to state power, which means they're going to vote forever until a big enough system costs the whole house of cards to come crashing down.
	I got a pile on here, too, to piggyback off what the other panelists are saying, especially Noah and all you guys.
	It's my understanding that, at least in America, that, well, today voting is viewed as a right, right?
	We have universal suffrage.
	We have everyone, you know, the right to vote, the right to vote, the right to vote.
	In America, in my understanding, voting was not always viewed as a right.
	In early America, this would have been viewed as bizarre.
	It was viewed a lot more like jury duty, like a duty you had to go do that was maybe not a pain in the ass, but it was not a right.
	It was more like a privilege or a duty or something.
	And so this modern conception of voting as a right, which as a millennial is how I was raised.
	I found this out a couple years ago that voting wasn't always a right in America or wasn't even viewed as a right.
	The very idea would have been alien to early Americans.
	And so I think what Noah and these guys are talking about is a really good direction to go with things.
	I'm not an anarchist, so to speak, but I even like hearing that from Molyneux bringing a counterpoint to it, the whole thing itself.
	But in the meantime, skin in the game, skin in the game, skin in the game.
	I don't want to disenfranchise women.
	I want to disenfranchise almost everybody.
	Oh, yeah, I mean...
	Molyneux is like, I got you one up, motherfucker.
	We got anarchy coming. Well, and let me add one other thing, too.
	I mean, Stefan said something earlier about, you know, this idea of, you know, women is a...
	I think somebody asked a question about women as a destructive force or something like that.
	I really think what it is, is I think that the feminist indoctrination, the socialist indoctrination, and this is happening toward men as well, is they're indoctrinating these individuals to continue to be children.
	And what I mean by this, I'm a parent, I'm a grandparent.
	And what I mean by this is that when children grow up, as they age, they go through different phases in life.
	You know, first and foremost, you know, they have like this black and white thinking.
	You know, if you if you cover your face, you've disappeared.
	You pull, you know, you said you play peekaboo with your baby kid.
	And then eventually as teenagers, the kids become hyper selfish.
	They become really cruel.
	It's all about me.
	Who cares? Whatever else is there.
	And they need that sense of ethics.
	Well, in their 20s, kids still continue to mature, men and women.
	They're not completely adult yet.
	And so when they get pregnant and have children in their 20s, They still need help on how to be parents.
	That's why grandparents are so important.
	That's why aunts and uncles and community contacts are so important because your job as a parent doesn't stop when your children turn 18.
	It's not like you're clear and, okay, it's time for me to get out.
	That's not it. You have to teach your children how to be married.
	You have to teach your children how to navigate those relationships.
	You have to teach your children how to cope with the early stages of childhood.
	These are brand new parents.
	They don't know. They can read all the books in the world, but unless they can talk to somebody who's been through it, who they trust and they respect, they're never going to get it.
	And so I think that when it comes to a lot of these scenarios that we're talking about, about this dichotomy, again, between men and women as opposed to saving society, and I think they're two very different things, I think that we need to understand that at some level, part of adulthood is parenthood because you are still maturing.
	And women who have children Are better equipped emotionally and psychologically.
	And this is my own personal opinion here.
	I'm not citing any studies here.
	But it's my view that they are in a better position to be loving and caring to their husband, to the father of their children as well, as well as the other people around them.
	And I think at some level, they understand the mutual idea of the benefit of interdependence as opposed to this rampant selfishness that's there.
	Sorry, just biologically speaking, the reason why there's such a thing as menopause is that periods and egg production and egg release and egg discharge, it really shortens a woman's lifespan.
	And one of the reasons why women live longer is because there's menopause.
	And the reason why there's menopause is that we need grandparents around, grandmothers around in particular.
	They provide a lot of calories to kids.
	They provide a lot of wisdom.
	They provide a lot of resources.
	We are a multi-generational species, and the tipping point for female fertility is when they can provide more value as grandparents than they can through shortening their lifespan by producing more eggs.
	Biologically, we are very much designed for multi-generational families.
	Real quick, DDJ, I need some clarification here.
	Before, when you were talking about, hey, if you work at a gas station, you don't get a vote.
	I contend, someone, Willie Thomas in the chat, took exception to that.
	He said, if you work at a gas station, you still get a vote.
	My assertion is that gas station is shorthand for someone who just doesn't have a job.
	I said, DDJ, if he fills out W-4, he pays taxes.
	So can you please... Because again...
	Yeah, let me address that.
	And first, let me start out by saying, holy shit, Donovan Sharp, anti-MIGTOW, thank you for defending me.
	Number one. I gotta put that out there.
	Good looking out. I take back half of what I said about you.
	Oh, trust me, it's a lot.
	No, I'm just... Look, if you pay taxes, if you pay taxes...
	So in the United States, for those who don't know, If you don't earn a certain amount of money, you don't pay taxes.
	If you don't pay taxes, and I'm not talking about if you're a single guy and you claim zero on your W-4 form and they take the taxes out.
	I'm talking about at the end of the year, if you're getting a tax refund at the end of the year, odds are you're not a net taxpayer.
	Or if you are, it's very, very minimalistic.
	If you're getting a tax return at the end of the year, you're not paying much in taxes.
	What I'm saying is, yeah, if you have a job, you have a W-4, you're probably paying taxes.
	You pay taxes up front on every check.
	You know, you're going to pay your FICA, you're going to pay your Social Security, you're going to pay your regular taxes.
	If you claim a zero, it's going to be around 20%.
	I know I used to do tax resolution for a couple years as a paralegal.
	But at the same token, at the end of the year, you're going to get some of that money back.
	Now, if you don't get 100% of that money back, you are a net taxpayer.
	Whether you work at a gas station or whether you work at whatever.
	I'm talking about the guy that works at a gas station for 10 hours a week and that's his only job.
	I'm not talking about the guy who works 20 or 30 or 40 hours a week who uses it to pay his bills.
	I understand it.
	This is not demographic shaming is what I'm trying to say.
	Listen, you nailed it right on the head.
	And that's what that was.
	That was a sneak to backdoor way of maybe like a demographic shaming.
	Willie Thomas knew what the hell you were talking about, but he wanted to verbalize it to make you look like something you weren't.
	So I figured I would put him on the spot and let him know, you idiot, of course he understands that if you fill out a W-4, you're going to pay fucking taxes.
	Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense, man.
	Well, and let's be clear.
	I mean, you know, let's give the man credit where credit's due.
	I am an asshole. I accept that.
	I'm just not a hypocritical asshole.
	There you go. There is that.
	There you go. Agree 100%.
	Noah, you wanted to...
	Oh, no. I'm all the way behind.
	Stefan, we have one more call on the line.
	Do you have time for one more phone call?
	I certainly do. Okay, very good.
	Let us go to area code 678.
	Area code 678. You're on live with the Redman Group.
	Go ahead. Eric, he's miming.
	No, no, this can't be miming, man.
	Mime is money. Come on, let's keep it moving.
	Right. All right, 678, we can't hear you.
	Maybe he's just listening.
	I've actually got a question for Stefan, and this is going to be...
	This is an interesting question.
	Where does Christianity fit in?
	I'm not an overly religious guy, right?
	But... But I can admit that there are elements of Christianity that, at least in old school Christianity, that does promote traditional healthy masculinity within the construct of a marriage between a man and a woman.
	Donovan, were you raised Christian, if you don't mind me asking?
	I was, yeah. I was raised Baptist, and then I decided to become Catholic, and now I'm in sort of a transitional phase because everybody does that.
	But I do agree that there are...
	You're a tranny? Say again?
	Hey, I told you that incompetent, man.
	My bad. Don't make him come one pain over.
	But yeah, Stefan, where do you think Christianity falls in, in terms of making women great again?
	Well, listen... I was a complete jerk to Christianity for my sort of early public intellectual career.
	Now, I had good arguments and all of that, but here's the amazing thing about Christianity is that the Christians returned with love, with love, with love, and I've got to tell you, man, it broke me in two.
	It's such a beautiful thing to see that a group that you're criticizing significantly is returning with love.
	It's a very, very powerful thing and is kind of unique among certainly the sort of big three religions.
	So Christianity has this wonderful universality to it, whereas other religions tend to be more in-group favorite.
	Like, you know, if he's part of your team, he's good.
	If he's not part of your team, you don't owe him any moral obligations.
	But Christianity universalized the in-group preference moral rules of the Old Testament, and this is an incredibly powerful thing.
	It's a great strength for Christianity in that love your enemies, but it's also a great weakness in that Christians end up being the most persecuted group in just about every society, even the ones that they found and supposedly run.
	So from that standpoint, with regards to male-female relations, you know, there's a lot of really hard-won wisdom in the world that everybody just keeps forgettings.
	So it's a great economist, Murray Rothbard, used to talk about this great learning that people would say, hey, man, let's have a cult, or let's all live together in one big giant soup.
	We'll have a commune, and, you know, bathing is bourgeois, right?
	And it's like, next thing you know, they've all got STDs and scabies.
	And it's like, oh... Yeah, that's why there were those old rules.
	And we used to have old rules on sexual restraint.
	Yeah, and now people are saying, like, not just with the Me Too, but with sort of this date rape stuff.
	And it's like, oh, that's why there were chaperones in the past.
	Oh, that's why you had to keep the door open and one foot on the floor in your dorm room and so on, right?
	That's why there were real concerns about men and women working together in professional environments because of some power imbalance.
	So there are all of these old lessons that we had that were hard won by thousands and thousands of years of really, really tough lessons.
	And like in one generation, we're like, screw all that.
	We just completely throw them all out and start again.
	And now we're seeing the effects.
	We're like, oh, that's why we used to have those rules.
	And it's the same thing with male-female relationships.
	And there is a lot of wisdom in the Bible about male and female relationships.
	There is a lot of stuff that I would certainly not consider wisdom and stuff that I would consider the opposite of wisdom.
	But the idea that there is leadership in the family.
	Listen, in the family for any relationship to work, just think about economics, right?
	It needs to be win-win, which means that some people need to have mastery in a certain area.
	And the way that the Bible says is, okay, well, the man may have mastery in certain areas, but the women are going to have mastery in other areas.
	That's the way it works in my marriage.
	I think that's the way it works in all productive marriages.
	There has to be a division of labor.
	If both people are trying to be men or both people are trying to be women, you get weird overlap, and it's like a subway shop trying to do business with another subway shop.
	It's like, well, we're in the same business.
	How could we possibly...
	Enhance each other's situation.
	You know, if you got five bucks and someone has a pen and you want to trade it, then you both end up better off, right?
	You get the pen, he gets the five bucks, it's all beautiful.
	So when it comes to the division of labor, the more that we try and make men and women the same, the more we have a jigsaw puzzle with all the same size pieces that don't fit together anymore.
	And so I do believe that, I mean, just look at the sexual organs.
	If they're the same, well, you can't have reproductive sex, right?
	And so we do need to look at some of the old wisdom of the things that women used to have power over, the hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world.
	If you go to a mall, you understand that women are fantastic nesters, like there's a...
	A woman's home is her vagina.
	A man's job is his penis.
	And this idea that men and women should just be the same is so catastrophic.
	It means that people are constantly bumping up against other people's expertise and specialties and so on.
	So there is clear authority for women in marriage.
	There is clear authority for men in marriage.
	And we need to start exploring that as complementary jigsaw puzzle pieces that fit together well, rather than this radical egalitarianism that takes away the division of labor and turns marriage into its constant battle over inconsequentials.
	Good, good stuff. We got area code 407 on the line, but before we get to area code 407, I want to get Noah's thoughts on this.
	Are you religious?
	If yes or no, where do you think religion fits in terms of restoring women back, I guess, to their former greatness, so to speak?
	I was actually raised to be a minister.
	I left that largely due to Stefan reminding me, do you want to take your kid to somewhere?
	Where they're going to see a lot of irrationality, and you're going to have to constantly explain to them that, oh no, what the other people believe isn't correct.
	I'm not religious at the moment, but the fact is that religion can have a very positive effect on people, but it will depend very much on the religion.
	So there are churches that are extremely pro-feminism, and then there are churches which are Giving the traditional cultural norms that we've had that worked so well in the past that Stefan spoke about before.
	And so it's not, it's not, will Christianity help?
	It's, Will the right kind of Christianity help?
	It's too broad a category.
	There's thousands of types of Christianity.
	And churches that today have female lesbian ministers that want to have Muslims praying in the church and are very pro-everything that 100 years ago would never have been accepted in the church.
	I think you're referring to heretics.
	Yes, exactly.
	That sounds about what he's talking about, yeah.
	A hundred years ago, it wasn't acceptable.
	Today it is. And a hundred years from now, we're probably going to go full circle.
	You know, we talked earlier about, can we save women?
	This is a blip in history.
	We're going to look back on this, our descendants, in a couple hundred years, and they're going to go, I can't believe they did all these stupid things.
	Can you believe they really did all this stuff?
	I mean, how did they even survive this?
	You know, they'll look back on it the way we look back on the fall of Rome and we say, how did they go from this to nothing?
	And then in reality, Rome did rebuild and it became even more powerful in a lot of ways.
	So this is not a matter of can women be saved?
	We are either going to do it.
	We're either going to save them or we're going to end our entire civilization and not have any descendants to ask why we were so crazy.
	You know, the other thing I wanted to point out, we talked about skin in the game earlier, and then we talked about how married women with children vote differently.
	The reality is married women with children have a lot of skin in the game because they have to leave a world that's livable for their children.
	They have to leave a world that will have grandchildren.
	I, as a father, I don't think about raising my sons.
	I'm thinking that I'm raising the fathers of my grandsons.
	That's how I'm thinking about it.
	I'm thinking about the next generation, not mine, but the one after.
	I felt they need to clap on that one.
	Yeah, that's good stuff, man.
	Blue-haired cat mothers are not going to think the same way about the future as women who are holding actual babies in their arms.
	They're going to think differently.
	And to pretend that women are the same people before and after they have children is to never have seen a woman go through that transformation.
	It's not just one.
	They transform. Every kid they have, they get deeper and deeper in.
	They're like, well, there's no going back now.
	I've got three kids, four kids.
	There's no going back. And this is why they are encouraging women not to have children.
	It's the only way they can really manipulate them.
	The moment women have children, they become less manipulatable.
	They have skin in the game.
	And this is why I think it's very important to encourage women to have children as young as they can.
	Young is healthy and healthy.
	Legal and appropriate for them so that they can get out from that manipulation that comes at them from society at the earliest possible stage.
	Also, when women go into the workforce, they start paying taxes.
	If they stay at home and raise children, the government has to pay for things.
	So it's simply an economic equation.
	No politician wants another politician to benefit from his policies down the road, which is why no one tackles the national debt or unfunded liabilities or pension schemes or anything like that.
	But you can convince women to go straight into college where they pay for their own Marxist indoctrination and then straight into the workforce where they're contributing money to the government and they can be used as assets, as collateral for more debt.
	But if a whole generation of women says, you know, to hell with running spreadsheets, I'm going to create actual life and continuing my culture, well, then governments are in a net loss rather than a net gain situation.
	So they don't want that.
	Wow, very good. Excellent.
	And if I can hop in on this and piggyback, on the issue of Make Women Great Again, on the issue of saving women, and if we don't, not having a future, I strongly endorse that issue, that idea.
	I do want to add that, you know, the idea of having the 22 convention, Make Women Great Again, and only having male speakers at the first event, that to me is symbolic of leadership, of masculine leadership.
	And I think that through feminism, and for whatever reason, as is not an attack on women, but I think an observation, Women have demonstrated through action for decades that they are not going to rein in the insane, extreme, radical excesses of feminism that are really starting to pile up with Believe Women, Hashtag Me Too, all this stuff with Brett Kavanaugh, all the crazy crap we see with feminism just endlessly today.
	So men have to lead.
	Women want men to lead.
	Women benefit from men leading in a family situation and beyond that.
	And that, I think, is what this convention is doing and men coming together for the first time in the West that I'm aware of at this scale and at this level to build these ideas out and build this media out.
	We're going to publish all the speeches from the 22 convention, just like 21 convention, free to the world.
	I want to reach millions and millions of young women, especially young Gen Z women that are still the dawn of their lives that have not fucked them up yet, riding the cock carousel on Tinder and doing all the stupid shit that we've been talking about throughout this show.
	And that needs to happen.
	It has to happen. And if it doesn't, you know, we don't have a future.
	I firmly believe that.
	We cannot survive as a culture with masculine women and feminine men and this shit show of androgyny.
	It's not going to work in a family unit, in a marriage, in a relationship, or in wider society.
	It's going to fall apart. Independent of anything that happens positively with politics and economics and all this stuff.
	Which I'm personally very much in favor of.
	I love seeing the stuff going on now with Trump and all that in America, now in the UK and Brazil and all these places.
	That's not enough. It comes down to men and women getting along and being functional, not this extreme insane dysfunction that we see in the cult of feminism.
	It has to stop. It has to die.
	It has to end. And we have to build something positive, a positive future for women to look to, positive ideas and messaging and And education.
	That's what we're doing with this convention.
	I think even Stefan's speech that he gave at the 21 convention was a precursor to that, incidentally.
	And it was fucking awesome. And I'm happy to see it come to fruition now at the 22 convention.
	Okay, let's hit our last phone call of the day, then we'll close out the show with a thought-provoking question here.
	Area code 407, you're on live with the Redman Group.
	Go ahead. Hey, guys.
	Christopher Gordon here, calling from the Tampa area.
	Love what you guys are doing.
	I've been in this battle for six or seven years.
	One of the issues that I'm trying to take the fight to is the legislative in the United States.
	Just a quick fact here.
	In the United States, it's one out of three children.
	24 million are growing up fatherless.
	Over 40% of children now are born to unwed parents and I'm fighting for equal shared parenting.
	I went through the family courts and it was absolutely fucking horrendous and I don't want another fucking father to go through what I did.
	I've been working with organizations, the National Parenting Organizations, Americans for Equal Shared Parenting, and it's interesting because every time you go out there to talk about the importance of fatherhood, you absolutely get destroyed by this whole feminist culture.
	The National Organization of Women, the League of Women, they show up and just completely destroy these dads.
	That are on their last rope.
	And I don't know how many phone calls I've taken from fathers that had a gun in their mouth.
	They're just saying, dude, I can't do this anymore.
	My paycheck is siphoned.
	My house was taken from me.
	I'm couch surfing.
	I don't know what to do anymore.
	And it's just, it's absolutely heartbreaking.
	But I guess the purpose of this call is to let you guys know that whether you're married or unmarried fathers, we're fighting back and we're fighting back to where I believe the change can be made and that's with our government and I love you Stephan because you're kind of like a dad to me and I know you guys got issues in Canada and I was doing research on single motherhood and that's how I found you and I got connected to conventions 21 but I just want to let you know that the national parenting organizations,
	Americans for Equal Shared Parenting, are probably some of the top-notch organizations that are fighting for fatherhood.
	I just want to see what your thoughts were.
	Wow. Thanks for the call, 970 or 407.
	Yeah, there's some raw emotion there, man.
	Like, that guy right there, that is the result of gynocentrism.
	And here's the thing, man.
	Most men are not outwardly in pain.
	These are the guys. Guys like him don't put the gun in their mouth.
	Most men suffer in silence.
	So, Stefan, I guess he addressed it to you.
	What are your thoughts on what he just said?
	Well, first of all, brother, I absolutely admire the passion and depth that you bring to this.
	That is a huge amount of compassion for men, for families, for children, and for the women who are falling into the pit of propaganda and coming out as very, very unhappy people.
	You know, I really, really respect the depth of passion and emotion and commitment that you're bringing to this issue.
	And, you know, it's great to be emotionally available.
	You know, isn't that what people say about men?
	Oh, we're just not emotionally available.
	But then when we become emotionally available about inconvenient things, suddenly we're just, you know, simps and whatever, right?
	You know, the passion is incredibly admirable.
	The depth of feeling is powerful, and I, you know, never lose that.
	That is, you know, incredible.
	And, you know, it's a tough thing to go on a show with your voice breaking, to be emotional, to be passionate, and to get the inevitable eye-rolling from people who aren't in touch with their feelings, not understanding how powerful it is, what it is that you're doing.
	So, you know, massive kudos, admiration.
	I bow down before.
	The passion of your manly self and I really, really do appreciate that.
	And I don't really have much to add other than you are a man with a mission.
	You are like that medic in that Mel Gibson movie who is out there just, okay, I'm not going to shoot back but I'm going to save as many people as humanly possible.
	And the fact that men are calling you in this extremity and hitting your depth of passion and empathy is literally life-saving.
	Literally life-saving.
	And however horrendous a situation is that you have found yourself in, which sounds horrendous, that other men have found themselves in, you can walk proudly through this life and go to your grave knowing that you have been a literal life-saver.
	For, I don't even know, hundreds, thousands of people who have listened to you, who've listened to things you've done on the internet, who are even listening to this.
	So that is a life very, very well lived.
	And if there was a medal for masculinity, you'd fall over because you'd be weighed down with so many.
	Yeah, the name of the movie that you're referring to, I believe, is called Hacksaw Ridge.
	And, you know, a lot of things we teach here in the Manosphere in terms of traditional masculinities to be emotionally stoic and never let them see you sweat.
	I endorse that 100%, but there are exceptions.
	In my mind, there aren't too many things in this world that a man should outwardly share or shed tears for.
	Children is absolutely one of them.
	A man has every right to lose his shit emotionally, especially when talking about his kids.
	Whatever that guy went through, it was front and center.
	You can tell that he either lived it or he is living it.
	Well, feminists want to shut that down, too, because it's just powerful.
	There you go. It's powerful. It inspires men.
	They hear that and they're like, holy shit.
	I was listening to that call and there's silence.
	I'm like, holy fuck. You can feel the fucking trauma this guy went through.
	And that inspires people. That makes them change their decisions about how they're going to live and what they're going to do, who they're going to vote for, how they're going to spend their money, what they're going to do and stuff.
	And it makes them very careful about who they marry.
	You see that on the other side.
	This 50% statistic is mostly garbage.
	If you get a woman who shares your values you've known for a while, you don't have promiscuous sex, she's not been hopping around the circus, so to speak, you can get your odds of divorce down to single digits.
	Easy peasy. And it's all about the preparation.
	Once you're in the shitstorm, it's just survival.
	But really, you know, listen to the pain in that guy's voice.
	Listen to the other guys who are, you know, eating gun barrels and on their last legs.
	And a lot of that has to do with men not getting advice, men not talking to each other about red flags, about problems, about statistics, about who's risky to marry.
	It doesn't give you a guarantee, you know, like if you don't smoke, you might still get lung cancer, but it still matters whether you smoke or not.
	Right. Yeah, it's all about reducing the odds.
	There are no guarantees in life, but you can certainly at least mitigate risk at the very least.
	Hang on.
	Caller, I also saw your area code was 407.
	You said you were based in Tampa. 407 is actually an Orlando area code phone number.
	I hope you come out to the 21 Convention Patriarch Edition, the Fatherhood Edition, coming up in Orlando, Florida.
	That's going to be going on at the same time as the 22 Convention.
	The two events are going to co-occur in the same venue.
	So come out to that event. You'll meet hundreds of other fathers like yourself that have been through a lot in most cases or many cases.
	But you'll find like-minded men with shared values and visions and goals in life.
	I know they're a really, really good time.
	Let me just add one other thing to the caller.
	I know that when you're going through this kind of stuff, money can be kind of tight.
	If you want to come and you can't afford it, just hit me up.
	I'll cover your ticket cost, man.
	All right? Because that was a beautiful thing that you said.
	No, I'll cover it to you, man.
	Whatever. You can volunteer. We'll get you in there no matter what.
	Yep. Good. Good stuff, man.
	So that dovetails to the last question of the day, just based on what that last caller talked about.
	I'd like to maybe just ask like a broad spectrum kind of question here.
	Obviously, there's a lot of work to be done.
	In my mind, and I'm a cynical type of dude.
	I used to be very optimistic when I was young.
	Life has a way of sort of leveling that out.
	In my mind, women will not embrace traditional femininity until I'm six feet under, right?
	Well after I'm dead and gone.
	That may be creating some perverse incentives for other people.
	I don't know. I don't know.
	So what are your thoughts? Like, to me, the culture isn't going to change in my lifetime.
	So, Stefan, convince me I'm wrong.
	If you disagree, convince me I'm wrong.
	If not, give me a timetable if there is indeed a timetable.
	I'll make this a round-robin question.
	Yeah, listen, it's too late, and the corruption, the mental corruption is far too embedded for us to win through mere arguments.
	And what I mean by that is...
	The incentives, you know, half of the people in the West are dependent upon the government and you're not going to be able to talk them out of that dependence any more than a guy who's won a million dollar lottery ticket and you say, well, you know, you shouldn't really cash that in because that's really just debt and, you know, it's going to impact other people and it's going to cause more unfunded liabilities.
	You can't really do that, right?
	You can, but he won't listen.
	The incentives are so perverse now.
	That it's going to just have to play itself out.
	And what matters is when the government does run out of money, that we correctly identify that it's not freedom that failed, but coercion.
	It's not voluntarism that failed, but violence.
	It's not the free market that failed, but massive socialist redistribution and debt.
	And so, when the crisis comes, we need to bounce in the right direction.
	We need to bounce back to freedom.
	We need to bounce back to responsibility.
	We need to bounce back to a more universal acceptance of the non-aggression principle, do not initiate force.
	So if you're hoping that mere arguments can undo institutional decay that's been going on, really, you could argue since the government took over schools in the 1850s.
	You know, that's asking quite a lot of mere syllables and language.
	But if we accept that, look, the crisis is going to come.
	Right. And the government's going to run out of money.
	And if we have put out enough, if we've predicted it, been correct about it, and we have correctly identified the causes, that is the best chance we can possibly have to use the bounce to get back to a better place.
	If we miss that bounce, man, you know, with the technology we've given governments, tyranny could last.
	I remember reading once a science fiction story that claimed that the society portrayed in George Orwell's 1984 lasted for 9,000 years.
	Wow. Jesus. Because, you know, think of the amount of technology that, say, the Chinese government has with facial recognition, with social credit scores, with tracking everything that everyone does.
	Think of the amount of electronic currency that's out there outside of, like, more anonymous cryptos and so on, just how much they can track you on your phone, on your computer, with every camera known to man.
	The amount of surveillance technology we've given the government through the free market is truly astounding.
	If we bounce the wrong way, You know, it might even be longer than 9,000 years.
	It's pretty important. So predictive power and having the right remedy for where we're inevitably going to go, I think, is the best hope that we have right now.
	Okay. Noah, let me kick it to you.
	What are your thoughts on a timetable if such a timetable exists?
	I'm a link in an infinite chain going back to the first man and forward through my sons into eternity.
	So if this takes a few generations, I'm okay with it.
	You have to have contingency plans.
	If I can't change civilization during my lifetime, how are my sons going to find wives?
	How am I going to ensure that my descendants have a healthy life, that they have a community they can rely on?
	And you have to create your own family.
	Your own options, your own alternatives.
	We may not be able to save society in the way that we expect it to be.
	It might be a different kind of solution than we're expecting.
	And almost certainly, technology is going to cause the breakup of large polities.
	We are probably going to speciate, separate, and define ourselves into smaller groups.
	We're doing that online already.
	And what's happening online will get mirrored in real life.
	There are many groups where people are getting together and forming their own convent communities and things like this where they're separating a bit away from the negative aspects of popular culture.
	If this takes 10 generations, what I'm going to create is a family that can last these 10 generations and ride it out and last another million generations.
	This is not a...
	Fighting evil is not something you do and then it's done.
	You know, it's not a glowing thing all the time.
	Yeah. Men are very event orientated.
	We want to get the event over with and get it done because that's how we think.
	We think, you know, I got my work that I got to get done today, this month, this year.
	And we think like that.
	We need to think of it more as maintaining health.
	We need to maintain the health of society.
	And it is an ongoing struggle.
	The parameters in which we're functioning will continue to change, and so our strategies will have to change.
	Stefan's absolutely right.
	We're not going to logic them out of it.
	We're going to have to probably put options on the table, which we may not like at the moment.
	There's definitely going to have to be...
	Our children may have a hard go of things, and we're going to have to prepare them for that.
	But... Like I said, it's the most dedicated that win.
	If that's us, we're going to win.
	There's no guarantee. You said earlier, there's no guarantee but death and taxes and menopause.
	But there's no guarantee that we're going to win.
	But if we don't fight, there's a guarantee we're going to lose.
	That's true. Yeah, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, right?
	DDJ, what are your thoughts on my timetable?
	Obviously, you're a little bit older.
	Do you think this is going to change in your lifetime?
	What chances do we have to actually see this sort of generational paradigm shift in terms of traditional femininity and masculinity?
	I'm going to say some things that might end up being unpopular, but I think that they deserve to be said.
	Do it! First and foremost, when everybody talks about this idea of this multi...
	I mean, we talk about these multi-generational changes.
	I mean, that's what communism focuses on.
	They never focus on, we're going to change it this generation.
	It's incremental changes.
	It's multi-generational incremental changes.
	That's where communism thrives.
	The reason feminism came into power, the reason socialism came into power, had in large part to do with this multi-generational entryism that they did, but it also had to do a lot with lawfare.
	And what I mean by that is that they filed strategic lawsuits to create disruptions in the system.
	And they did that in a way that the conservatives don't do it.
	Everybody has this aversion to the conflict that is a lawsuit.
	And I have a legal background, so the reason I bring that up is because, it's like you said, if we don't fight back, we don't get anywhere.
	And let me give you a prime example, and I'm going to use this to kind of show my own situation a little bit, but only because it's an on-point example.
	YouTube recently changed its terms of service to where if they don't think that you're commercially viable, they're going to shut your channel down.
	If they think you're harassing somebody, they're going to shut your channel down.
	They even have a term of service now where if you say and exercise your freedom of speech anywhere off their platform and they don't like it, they will shut you down.
	So if you speak in court, so if you speak in front of Congress, if you speak anywhere that you might exercise as an American, you might exercise your First Amendment right.
	They will shut you down.
	Well, like Stefan has said so eloquently, they're not enough.
	We... Complaining about all these concerns and they're saying all these arguments about it, but argument is not enough, which is why I filed my lawsuit against Google.
	Because I believe that when it comes to being an American citizen, that censorship based on hate speech is national origin discrimination against me as an American.
	And I also believe that their Section 230, it gives them a type of high-tech sovereign immunity.
	And they don't deserve it, which is why I'm challenging the conditionality of that law.
	I've never heard it put that way before, but that makes sense.
	It's exactly what it is. And that's why when you see...
	Listen, it's the only explanation for why Google and YouTube and all these big tech establishment organizations are entering into contracts with countries.
	If you look at my lawsuit and the Second Amendment complaint, I go into detail and I show examples with exhibits of how they have signed contracts with the European Union, how they've signed contracts with 17 different countries.
	These are not contracts.
	These are treaties.
	YouTube and Google think they're a nation unto themselves.
	They think they are their own sovereign.
	You don't fight back by that by just having argument alone.
	You have to bring the fight to them.
	But you can't make the same mistakes that everybody else made.
	You have to try something new, even if it has a high risk of failure.
	And that's what I did.
	And that's what I think that all men at some level should do using their own skill sets and using the knowledge and the communities they have.
	If we're going to fight back against this socialist tyranny, which really is what feminism has become, if we're going to fight back for that, we have to actually do it.
	So another example.
	So even though I filed a lawsuit against Google and that kind of thing, what nobody knows because nobody's reporting on it is that we filed a preliminary injunction.
	For those people who don't know, that's a restraining order.
	And we're asking the court to block the enforcement of the commercial viability clause, and we're asking the court to rule that Google and YouTube can no longer enforce hate speech censorship in the United States.
	Now, that is up for hearing.
	Google has till December 23rd to respond to it.
	So, you know, there are things that are happening, but the problem is that no one is really willing to have these conversations because they're very difficult conversations to have, and a lot of people are afraid that they're going to be censored as the result.
	Let me tell you something. The original signers of the Declaration of Independence Every one of them came to a rough end because they were all targeted and they had their lives destroyed as a direct result.
	And I look at this situation from a family law perspective.
	I have worked in family law since the middle 90s.
	I was an activist. I was a men's rights activist.
	I did do a lot of those things before I started seeing what was going on.
	And let me tell you something.
	Men are sacrificing their lives for their children and their family every day, just like that previous caller did.
	On incremental changes, we have to move the Overton window back.
	And the only way we do that is through communicating like this, through a combination of their lawsuits to fight this sort of thing.
	As another example, in the United States, we have a little of where we're about not only the feminist machine, but through filing a review.
	In April of this year, between March and April.
	So we already have these things planned.
	There is a group of people out there who want to turn the Overton window back.
	And what happened in our time?
	I don't know, but I'll tell you what.
	phenomena he threw that pebble in the pond and in his lifetime it wavered all the way around and it changed the world as we know it to where now it's not whether or not you you've ever heard of martial arts it's what martial art did you study you know
	it becomes common language because somebody like bruce lee and he and he dedicated his life to it and he made the right decisions to move the Overton window so that people would receive that education.
	And I think that today, if we want to move the Overton window, we can't continue to do the things that have been done that don't work.
	There has to be a new conceptual level of thinking.
	And frankly, the best way to do it Is to create these new legal issues, file these lawsuits, in addition to bringing attention to them so people understand that there are people fighting.
	And I'm not saying push mine.
	That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying all the lawsuits go out there that are filed in the name of freedom, that are trying to protect freedom of speech, that are trying to protect and stand against freedom.
	Protect against and stand against socialism.
	Those are the things that we need to be having the conversations about.
	But the problem that you have is that when the socialists come, everybody complains about it.
	But I can tell you right now, a blind man can see the problem, but it takes a man with vision for solutions because solutions require risk.
	And most people aren't willing to do that.
	Very good. And if you guys want details on DDJ's lawsuit against Google, I put the link in the chat and I should actually, we'll actually put it in the description.
	It's misandrytoday.com slash Lewis slash Lewis dash versus dash Google.
	So that's misandrytoday.com slash Lewis dash versus dash Google.
	If you guys want to get the updates and details on that.
	Anthony, I'll give you the final word on your timetable.
	Thanks. Yeah, this is something I first addressed the timetable issue back in 2017 in my keynote address at the 10-year anniversary of the convention.
	The title of that's on YouTube as well, the speech, it's called The Future is Masculine.
	And I do believe it's going to take decades to undo the damage that feminism has done.
	It's taken decades to get this bad.
	It's taken 100 years in some sense.
	So, can it happen in a lifetime?
	Look, I'm the youngest, most optimistic dude in this panel.
	Well, I don't know about the most optimistic, but I'm certainly the youngest, right?
	And I've not been embittered by the world almost at all yet.
	So I do believe it can happen in our lifetime.
	I do believe that free speech is still alive and pretty well.
	I think the guys like DDJ and others are fighting back, as well as, you know, in panels like this, or individual platforms.
	Each one of us has tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, and in Stefan's case, millions of followers that are listening to what we say to the extent that we survive and remain online and don't get shut down like Alex Jones or something like that.
	So yeah, it can happen in our lifetime.
	What I mean by that is specifically look at the internet and look at events that have yet to come that will have major impacts on these issues that we just don't see coming.
	Black Swan type events.
	Look at Donald Trump winning the presidency.
	Who the fuck would have thought that in 2012, just seven years ago?
	That has been a major world event beyond our country.
	And so far, it's been changing the course of American history and therefore Western history.
	I think if things are going to happen...
	Yeah. Well, so I think that, you know, things are going to happen that we don't see coming that are major and that the speed of communication, the internet, to the extent they survive in some form that they do now, maybe get better, maybe get a bit worse.
	We'll see. But as long as free speech remains relatively alive and, you know, these events happen, maybe, for example, the invention of male birth control that we can take, hopefully not a pill, but maybe some sort of, like, injection or something like that.
	I've seen, you know, announcements on that in the articles.
	Castle gel, yeah. Yeah, things like that.
	That could be a major thing that happens alongside a major pushback against feminism that's organized and that's educational and positive, like we're building now for women, as well as the manosphere and for men and for fathers, like we're doing with conventions and meetups and podcasts and channels and all kinds of books and things like that.
	So there's a lot of positive things that are going to happen.
	There's some negative things that are going to happen, too, that we don't see coming.
	But I'm optimistic and I'm hopeful.
	I think America is one of the oldest republics in the world.
	It's survived for a long time.
	We have a very powerful founding, and that was a very difficult battle that the founding generation won.
	And I think the battle before us is probably not even that difficult.
	So something greater has already been achieved just in this country.
	So this can be done. And I'm 31, so I think it'll happen in my lifetime.
	I'm hopeful that it does. Probably a bit biased.
	But yeah, let's fight. And it's a fun to know what we're talking about.
	I think if we don't fight, we're totally fucked.
	You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
	So fight. And fight as hard as you can and win.
	Fuck yeah. I saw Stefan do this, you know, go over this issue as well on the Redman group at the convention.
	He's pushing back against some cynicism and stuff from the other panelists.
	And I can very much concur with what he was saying there, and you guys will see that in the episode that comes out later.
	Optimism feels good, man.
	It feels good to be optimist.
	But not to the point of delusion or your own dishealth.
	I understand how serious feminism is.
	Yeah, listen, delusional optimism is very, very dangerous, but having a realistic form...
	Honestly, I'd give anything to feel that way again.
	I guess I just need to see and just be in it a little bit longer.
	More conventions. More conventions.
	The reality is every man in this panel is a fighter.
	We would be bored to death if there was no evil to fight.
	The reality is what place would we have in society if there was no evil to fight?
	No, I totally agree.
	And with that, that is going to draw the 90th edition of the Redman Group to a close.
	Listen, this was an unbelievable discussion.
	My thanks to all of the panelists.
	Stefan Molyneux, again, you guys can go to his website, freedomdomain.com.
	At Stefan Molyneux is where you guys can find him.
	Sorry, freedomain.com. Oh, I'm sorry.
	Free domain. I see free domain.
	Free domain, not freedomain.com.
	Freedomain.com. At Stefan Molyneux is where you guys can find him on Twitter.
	url.com forward slash Hong Kong is where you can find his documentary on his visit to Hong Kong and the protest one on there.
	Noah, you represented yourself well here on this particular panel.
	Thank you very much for making time for us this morning.
	SMV4k.com is where you guys can find his website at Noah Revoid, just like it's spelled, just like it's on your screen.
	Here's where you can find him on Twitter.
	DDJ, as always bringing the thunder, bringing the pain.
	Missandrytoday.com is where you guys can find, can find his website.
	And again, I put the link in the chat.
	I'm going to put the link in the description if you guys want regular updates on his lawsuit against Google.
	Of course, Anthony, thanks for putting this panel together.
	That is going to do it for this edition of the Redman Group.
	We thank you all for joining us.
	We will see you the same time next week.

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