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Oct. 31, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
21:00
Jeffrey Epstein Autopsy Shock!
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Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Free Domain.
Hope you're doing well. Here by the good friend Dr.
Kevin Wicasey. Now, new information has come out about Jeffrey Epstein.
I really can't believe it's been, what, 80 days or so?
Like, time is such a blur these days in alternative media.
And now the pathologist who was hired by Epstein's brother has come forward who witnessed the actual autopsy that occurred shortly after his death and has, uh...
Revealed some information that we had touched on or speculated about in the last show we did together, which now seems a whole lot more certain.
What have you seen that has got your spider sense tingling?
Well, so basically, the pathologist in question is a forensic pathologist.
He's well known in medical circles.
His name is Dr. Michael Bodden.
He's 85 years old. He's been practicing for a long, long time.
He's been involved in some rather famous cases.
And so when Epstein was suicided, let's just say, in prison, Apparently, the brother of Jeffrey Epstein hired Dr.
Bodden to kind of serve as a third party to oversee the autopsy that was going to be conducted by, I guess it was the New York City Medical Examiner's Office that did this autopsy.
And this is something that Dr.
Bodden He's a hired expert who will come in and either review the findings post facto after they've been done, or he will witness the autopsy as it's being done, which is what he did in Epstein's case.
And he's like the prison guy.
So when there's a prison riot and so on, and like half a dozen prisoners end up dead, he's the guy you call.
So he's not just really good at figuring out how people died, but he is specifically focused on the prison environment and has been for, well, almost as much time as I've been alive.
I think about 50 years he's been working on this.
So he is the guy, which is why I guess the guys who have a lot of money, like Epstein's brother, decided to hire him.
Yeah, he's a forensic pathologist.
I'm not so certain about the prison thing.
I know he said in one interview that I saw that he helped with the prison outbreak or prison deaths that occurred years ago.
But the bottom line is, he's a forensic pathologist.
If anybody knows how to conduct an autopsy, he's the guy.
I mean, he definitely is somebody who would know how to conduct an autopsy.
And he knows the procedures, everything that's involved with what goes on before the autopsy, what goes on after the autopsy, including a lot of which is really not related to what I do in practicing medicine in my daily practice at all.
It's more related to the criminality of it.
I'll get into that here in a little bit about DNA under fingerprints and on the ligature that was used to choke Epstein.
But what Dr. Bodden came up with, the last time you and I talked, Steph, there was some real uncertainty about what exactly had happened with Epstein's neck.
In fact, the news reports that were coming out in August, right after he died, the one shocking news report said that he had sustained multiple fractures in his neck.
Now, fracture is just a $10 word that means broken.
So there were multiple things broken in Epstein's neck from this so-called hanging incident.
So here's the problem that I had with that then, and here's the problem that I still have with it now.
Back then, I didn't know exactly what was fractured other than the hyoid bone, which is this small little U-shaped bone that sits right up here above the Adam's apple, and it is almost never broken in hanging incidents.
It takes a lot of force to break that thing, and It's just not really commonly broken in a hanging incident.
Oh, and I just wanted to mention too, right?
So that's people who have like wet, hard, undersea cable rope that may jump from a fairly high area like a tall chair or something and get yanked up that way.
This guy, it's a top bunk and it's bedsheets.
So they keep saying ligature, which sounds really leathery, but it's bedsheets from a top bunk.
This is not snap-your-neck cable from a ladder.
Right. Well, ligature is a medical term.
That's a term just used to describe anything that's used to strangle or choke or cut off the air, cut off the blood supply, whatever, when you're causing someone's death.
So ligature is just something that's used to bind people with.
So it can be a bed sheet or it can be a strap of leather or whatever.
But the bottom line is that what Baden came out with today is that, in fact, it wasn't...
And what you and I, or what I had presupposed back in our previous interview was that The other fractures that were in Epstein's neck involved the cervical vertebrae, the bones that sit at the back of the neck.
Now, when we did our interview back in August, I was thinking that anything that causes those things to break has got to have a tremendous amount of force put on that very, very rapidly.
And I want to get into a little bit of physics here.
Let's talk about physics, because I looked this stuff up since our last interview.
When you talk about applying force over time, the units of measure that that results in, the force involved is called an impulse in physics.
And so you can have a very large impulse in one of two ways.
And let me get into some analogies here to describe this.
When you're talking about doing a hanging, when you're talking about somebody dropping from a distance, From a distance with a rope attached around their neck and they, boom, they come to a sudden deceleration.
That would be analogous to driving down the freeway at 90 miles an hour and you hit a concrete barrier.
Boom! That is a lot of force applied over a very short amount of time, a split second, and that results in a tremendous impulse.
That's force applied over a unit of time.
So if you have a lot of force applied over a little bit of time, you get a tremendous impulse.
And that's What would produce fractures of the cervical vertebrae?
That's why I was very skeptical of this back in August when we weren't clear that it was a cervical vertebrae.
The bones, again, the spinal column bones in the back of the neck.
To break those things, you have to apply a lot of force over a very short period of time.
In other words, you have to have a very high impulse power.
Not Star Trek, but impulse physics as in force over unit time.
The other way you can get a big impulse, though, a huge impulse is if you apply this...
Okay, so let's say you're going down the freeway and you crash your car at 90 miles an hour and you survive.
Well, your car is totaled, okay?
It's crunched because of the huge impulse involved.
So now what are they going to do with the car?
They're going to take it to the junkyard.
What are they going to do with it there? They're going to apply a smaller impulse, a smaller force over a longer period of time, and that creates...
They're going to crush the car, right?
Well, that creates the same, not necessarily the same, but that also can create a very large impulse.
If you take something and you apply a lot of force over a lot of time, you can get to that same kind of impulse as far as it's measured, force over unit time.
And that would be more consistent with strangulation, with wrapping something around, be it hands or leather or an orange bedsheet or some kind of ligature.
That would be consistent with wrapping that around Epstein's neck.
And applying a lot of force to break something.
Now you wouldn't break the bones in the back of the neck by applying this kind of force if you were to grab somebody with your hands or wrap something around your neck.
You wouldn't do that to the bones in the back of the neck.
What you would do, though, is potentially fracture their Adam's apple, the thyroid cartilage, from the pressure applied right in here as you're strangling that person, as you're applying that force over time, you get a large impulse, you can break that.
And guess what Dr. Bodden admitted today?
That is exactly what happened in Epstein's case.
He not only had fracture of his hyoid bone, Baden said he had three fractures, and I'm unclear if there was one in the hyoid bone and two in the thyroid cartilage, or if it was two in the hyoid bone, one in the thyroid cartilage.
But the bottom line is, there was a significant amount of force applied to Epstein's neck over some period of time.
The question becomes, was it a split second in which he jumped off, what is it, a five-foot bunk bed?
He's six feet tall, and he would jump off this bunk bed and Tuck his knees like an Olympic diver and then somehow generate enough force to snap all this stuff?
I don't think so. Neither does Dr.
Bodden. Or is it more likely that someone had to apply a lot of pressure here, a force over time?
Again, an impulse, achieve a lot of force over a lot more time, but enough to cut off his airway, cut off his blood flow, And then break those cartilages, break the hyoid bone and the thyroid cartilage.
That seems very, very likely in this case.
And in fact, Dr. Bodden admitted in his interview on Fox News, it was a 10-minute interview.
I highly encourage everyone to go watch it.
It's fascinating. He, I think beyond the shadow of a doubt, he believes that this was a, he calls it a homicide, whatever, a homicide.
He feels that Epstein was murdered.
It's clear. And so do I. I think that Epstein was absolutely murdered.
But of course there's an easy way to check that, right?
So if somebody murdered him and then he was found with the sheet around his neck tied to the top bunk, then of course the person's, the murderer's DNA would be all over that sheet and most likely under Jeffrey Epstein's fingernails as he fought like a dog against being murdered.
So as far as I understand it, the family, the brother, had requested the DNA. I assume the FBI would have a hold of that.
They have the sheet and they have the body.
So you would look for the DNA of somebody else under the fingernails and on the sheet.
But what has happened? Yeah, Dr.
Bodden seemed to intimate in this interview that he witnessed them taking samples from this ligature.
He called it an orange bed sheet that was found wrapped around Epstein's neck.
He witnessed them taking samples from that to check for DNA. And let me say this, that let's just go for the assumption that Epstein was murdered, okay?
Let's just go with that assumption that it was homicide.
I don't believe for a minute that this was suicide, especially given this new information, and especially given the fact that they haven't released.
It's been almost three months they haven't released these results.
They can do rapid DNA testing in the field.
They can do DNA testing over a period of hours.
It's been almost three months they haven't released this stuff.
Come on. So, let's just proceed with the assumption that he was murdered.
How do you kill someone by strangling them instead of him hanging?
Well, I would submit that that's gonna be at least a two, maybe a three-person job.
I don't know how many of your viewers have ever tried to hold someone down in a busy ER or a psych unit, but It takes a lot of work.
I mean, I'm a pretty strong guy.
I can't hold somebody down, even a four-foot-tall person.
I can barely hold them down. You've got four moving targets.
FC was also pretty tall, and there are photos of him going to the gym and back.
He's pretty tall and pretty fit.
So I would submit that this was at least a two- or a three-person job, and I can't imagine that that guy, you know, I don't think that he watched whoever was coming into his cell and said, hey guys, what's up?
Because he complained his life was in danger, so if people are coming into your cell, you know what's happening.
Big guys with the Cro-Magnon brow.
Yeah, I would definitely...
I mean, listen, I was asked one time on Twitter, if you were about to die, if you were about to be executed, what would be your last meal?
And I said, a healthy bite of my executioner's flesh, or I would die trying, okay?
You put a lot of thought into this.
It's a good dinner table conversation.
Yeah, it's Twitter, right?
I mean, it's super fun.
It's philosophy defined online.
Basically, when it comes down to it, people are going to fight like mad.
I don't care how short his fingernails were, there's got to be something there that they can latch onto.
We're talking DNA now.
You walk into the guy's cell, you're shedding DNA all over it.
That might be some confusion.
You're going to find prison guards' DNA all over the place.
But on that ligature, on that bedsheet that was used to strangle him, Again, I'm just going to say that.
I think he was strangled. There's no question in my mind.
How did they do this?
Where's the DNA? Where are the results?
I'd be very, very surprised if we ever get those results back.
And I'd be surprised if they ever released the autopsy results, period.
I've read something. Somebody tweeted me or something and said that New York state law doesn't provide that they have to release the autopsy results.
Well, that's just crazy. I mean, this is a public figure.
He's got many victims. It's a public outcry as to what happened to him.
They should release the results.
Well, of course they should. And listen, think of it like this.
If you are, or I guess are, one of the victims of Jeffrey Epstein, You know, you kind of want to know if the guy was murdered.
Yeah. You know, just in terms of your own personal security, your own personal safety, your own personal level of worry.
I mean, I sort of put myself in their shoes.
These girls have suffered, or these women now, I mean, suffered enormously at the hands of this wretched monster.
Absolutely. And the idea that people could be out hunting this guy now, and I mean, good Lord, give these people some peace of mind.
Release the DNA evidence.
It's as simple as can be. And the fact that they don't and can get away with not doing it, to me, is cold and heartless almost beyond measure.
Well, Dr. Bottin alluded to the fact that Epstein's brother was concerned that if his brother was murdered, Then who else could be murdered based upon what they know about what went on behind closed doors?
I mean, who else is at risk from this?
Because if this was a murder, and I fully believe it was a murder, that was one hell of a conspiracy.
Dr. Biden expressed some serious disbelief at this, at how two prison guards Could be asleep at the same time.
And the video cameras all around that area just suddenly stopped working at the moment that Epstein suicided himself.
Well, he said in his 50 years of practice of working with the New York State and prison system, He's never seen anything like this.
I would have to say that it's not often that those dice roll up like that either.
I mean, that's almost impossible.
And the fact that he was, I think, 3.30 in the morning until 6.30 in the morning while on Suicide Watch or recently taken off that he was unmonitored, unchecked on.
Right. And also, state of mind, right?
I mean, the guy was meeting with his lawyers.
He had plans. He seemed to be reasonably optimistic.
That's not really the state of mind of somebody who's about to take the deep six.
Right. Oh, no, absolutely.
I mean, he thought he was going to get off.
I mean, he thought that he was going to get out of there and get on bail, etc.
And from what I read, he had offered up some enormous amount of money, millions, tens of millions of dollars for bail or what have you.
And yeah, I can't imagine that this guy was walking around saying, I just better off myself.
You know, there's one other thing that Dr.
Bodden alluded to that was quite interesting.
And it's the fact that the coroner's report was apparently changed because he sat in on the original autopsy, if you'll remember.
He was there present during the whole thing and observing it and watching the details.
And like I said, he's conducted more than a few of these, so he knows his way around these.
And apparently they had come to the conclusion that You know, there wasn't enough evidence to prove that it was suicide at the initial take.
They didn't have any evidence that pointed to suicide.
So they left the initial, you know, there's a cause of death and there's a manner of death.
The cause of death is asphyxiation, basically.
He was strangled or hung himself or strangled.
It choked off his airway and it killed him.
The manner of death, whether it be suicide, homicide, accidental, what have you, that's a whole other scope.
And what he said was that the initial autopsy after conducting this, they couldn't really determine what the manner of death was.
And then suddenly, out of the clear blue sky, boom, suicide.
It was announced in a press release, I think a couple of days after you and I did our first talk about this online, it was announced in a press release that, oh, it was suicide.
We're 99% certain it was suicide.
Well, Dr. Biden wants to know.
Epstein's brother wants to know.
And I want to know. You want to know?
I think everybody wants to know.
What evidence led them to conclude that it was suicide?
Well, I think the answer to that, obviously, is none.
No, come on. Look, if they have exonerating evidence, they know that this is a big concern of people.
And if they have exonerating evidence, like, hey, man, there's no DNA, independent testing on the sheets and so on, they could dispel at least that to some degree.
But of course, if it's suicide, the investigation pretty much stops, right?
If it's ruled, As a homicide.
If it's ruled as a murder, then what happens?
Well, you start to subpoena.
You start to examine records.
You start to put people under oath.
You do a full-on criminal investigation of what happened to the guards, what happened to the video camera, and all the other things that seem to point towards something pretty nefarious.
And they don't want that particular investigation to go forward because I think everybody understands that it's going to lead to some pretty deep pits of power.
Yeah, and I think it was Rudy Giuliani I saw right after this all happened who said that, you know, even if they investigated it, it's going to be a very short investigation.
I mean, we're talking about a few-hour time window here.
You're talking about he was in a known place.
I mean, there's only so many witnesses to interview and get your corroborating stuff.
So it'd be a very short—it wouldn't be a, you know, a Robert Mueller investigation at all.
So it would be fairly easy to undertake, but the results would be devastating.
I think we can agree on that.
Well, and it's a lot easier to stop the avalanche when it's a snowflake, right, than when it's something like 10 trains side by side, right?
So you want to stop the investigation from getting going, because if it turns out, of course, that there's something nefarious going on in the prison, then you have to start widening the scope as into who contacted, who ordered, who set this up, and so on.
Now, have you seen, let's really dip into some theorizing here, because I've seen, and I'm sure you've seen other people have seen, this theory, and it seems to be based upon the shape of Of the ears and so on, that it wasn't even Epstein who was removed from the prison.
Have you thought about any of that?
Have you followed any of that up?
Uh, no. I think...
Okay, good. Well, we'll just acknowledge it, and we don't know, but that's certainly there for people to examine if they want.
I'm pretty certain the DNA tested Epstein, probably did it, and if nothing else, I'm sure that Dr.
Baden would have had his own questions and Epstein's brother, unless they're in on it, in case If that's the case, if they're in on it, then why are they pursuing these other...
Yeah, I wouldn't think that's going to be the case.
So, yeah, I think that conspiracy, you know, Occam's razor being held, all things being considered, the simplest explanation is the best.
I think Epstein died.
I think that he was murdered.
And I think we're never going to get to the bottom of it.
But I think that a lot of people are breathing easier since that very fortunate suicide occurred.
Yeah, yeah. It would be interesting to see who had visited him and who had access to him.
But as you say, they hold the information.
They're not legally obligated to release it.
And of course, you can change records whenever you want.
So, I mean, I'm with you, man.
I think that the guy was offed.
And this is about as clear as things can be.
And yeah, we'll...
We'll see that the people in power can do whatever they want to whoever they want even in a prison and maybe he was arrested and put in prison so they'd know exactly where he was.
You know, that's what really, really ticks me off is that they're probably going to get away with this.
I mean, they will absolutely get away with this, even in a day and age where we have not only the Internet, which is, you know, the modern Gutenberg press, but we also have people like you, the alternative media bringing the truth.
And yet, in the full light of day, Adam Schiff can, you know, deny Republicans the opportunity to question The only person who's a witness so far in this impeachment scandal, and at the same time, they can absolutely just throw this under the rug and pretend that it never happened.
It is absolutely ridiculous, and I don't know what the answer is, but I, for one, am pretty steamed about it.
Very. Well, I appreciate your analysis and your thoughts.
It clears up some things for me.
And do you want to mention to people your website, your most recent book, and where people can find you online?
Sure. I have a healthcareonomics.com as my blog.
I've written a couple of books.
The first one is the guide to buying health insurance and healthcare.
It helps people save money on their health insurance and their healthcare.
The second one is a collection of a thousand funny ways.
It's called Healthcareonomics, A Thousand Crazy Ways.
The American health insurance industry controls the American healthcare system.
And I have Twitter account, Healthcareonomics on there.
I'm on Parlay or Parler, Healthcareonomics on there as well.
And I have an app, Dr.
W's Equation, that will help you.
It's available on Android and iPhone.
It will help you pick out the best health insurance plan, the one that makes the most financial sense.
So please follow, share, and like.
All right. Well, thanks for your time.
I really, really appreciate it. We'll talk again soon.
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