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Sept. 21, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:55:57

"I'm a Black Veteran Who Married into a Family with White Criminals!" Freedomain Call In

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	Hi, everyone.
	I'm here with David.
	Man, you've got quite a story to tell, brother.
	Do you want to read me the email that you sent?
	Yes, sir. So I'll just go ahead and get this started.
	Hey, Stefan. First, I'd like to thank you for the amazing work you're doing.
	I appreciate your wise words and perspectives.
	Let me introduce myself.
	My name is David. I'm a 24-year-old veteran.
	I'm currently going through a divorce with my wife of four years.
	We have a two-year-old daughter.
	The divorce is not mutual.
	She wants a divorce and I want to fix and maintain the relationship because I grew up in a split household from a young age.
	I'm having a rough time dealing with this because of the complexity and how she's acting so far.
	I struggle with a host of mental issues including virtually no self-worth, depression since a young age, and I wasn't aware of my own anxiety until last year.
	I'm having a really hard time maintaining the high road, excuse me, and trying to be civil when she persists on being difficult, combative, and manipulative.
	We got married young and in a hurry.
	In hindsight, I definitely overlooked red flags and I'm well aware of my own faults in that.
	I'm seeking advice on how to maintain the high road and doing the right thing even though it seems like it's all for naught.
	I know you're extremely busy and have a bunch of other people to deal with, but if you can make the time to talk to me, I would really appreciate your insight and tough love.
	Well, and make the time I will.
	I'm incredibly sorry, of course, about your history and the issues that you're struggling with.
	Do you want to talk about the story of how you met your wife, what the marriage was like, and what happened more recently?
	Yeah, I can get into it.
	First, thank you so much for taking the time.
	I really do appreciate it.
	I just want to get that out of the way.
	But yeah, I can get into kind of the backstory.
	So it was kind of a...
	Interesting situation.
	We had been friends of friends for a significant amount of time.
	The school that I had went to, it was a smaller Christian school, and so they had a lot of connections with other Christian organizations and schools and stuff like that.
	One of which, she had friends that went to, which were associated with our school via sports.
	Because we didn't have a lot of people who went to the school, so we kind of imported talent from another school that didn't have its own league or the capacity to have its own league in volleyball, soccer, and basketball.
	So we kind of knew each other via those connections or whatever, and I think we had interacted a few times before, but never really One-on-one never really, you know, actually directly communicated to each other.
	And then I happened to be in California at the time.
	That's where I was stationed. And I had seen her pop up on my social media, Facebook.
	And I was just like, she looks familiar.
	I was like, let me just send her a message to somebody I think I know and whatever.
	And send her a message.
	We started talking, you know, figured out who each other was.
	And it Went from zero to 100 real quick.
	So within that year, actually, this was 2014.
	So within that year, by the end of the year, this was in May that we started talking.
	And by the end of the year, we were dating.
	And then we ended up getting engaged that same year.
	2014. That was all in 2014.
	So you got engaged in a year.
	How long did it take for you guys to tie that up?
	So that year, I had a deployment coming up, which I guess I was in hindsight kind of pressured.
	That's why we felt the pressure of all that stuff.
	And so I deployed in the fall of 2014, then came back stateside in May.
	I got there in April 2015.
	We got married in May. Okay, okay.
	Where were you deployed to? First deployment, I was in Kuwait, Iraq, and Syria a little bit.
	And you don't have to get into any details.
	You're not comfortable with, of course, but did you...
	I mean, was it combat? Was it like IEDs, roadside bombs, blood in the air?
	I mean... No, funny about that, that's kind of my disgruntledness with my service was the fact that we kind of got benched due to the Obama administration, but that's a story for another time.
	But we ended up, our mission got switched around a few times before we even deployed, because when I got to my unit, we were supposed to be the last ones into Afghanistan, which they ended up canceling that, and then we were going to do some Force training for Dubai Armed Forces and then they canceled that and then we ended up doing what's called TRAP. It is an acronym for Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Aircraft Personnel.
	So basically during that time they were doing a bombing campaign on ISIS and they would send the birds out to go do their missions but they would also have us on a QRF which is Quick Reaction Force.
	So we would have about a platoon On standby to basically load up on a helicopter on an Osprey and fly out and go get the pilots if they got shot down.
	And we recover the pilots, recover classified material off of any aircraft that was, you know, was shot down or destroy it if it wasn't salvageable.
	And then we would, you know, get them on the bird and take them back to our base.
	So it wasn't really...
	Sorry to interrupt, man, but that kind of being super common, right?
	Actually, no. We had a really boring deployment because the allies that we had who were also a part of the bombing campaign, I mean, we had more advanced stuff.
	Everybody was pretty much fine.
	We only had one incident, and it was around December.
	There was a Jordanian pilot who got shot down or got clipped by his wingman.
	They weren't too sure what had happened, but he ended up going down near an ISIS stronghold.
	They had guys waiting for him as soon as he touched the ground.
	And we were going to send somebody out.
	They were going to send some guys out.
	And I was actually really worried about that because everyone would have died had they launched that mission.
	They were actually halfway there before they canceled it.
	But it was a suicide mission because the loadout that we were given to complete these missions was a hit-and-load run.
	It's not enough to sustain a fight and the amount of assets that they had at that stronghold.
	It was a suicide mission.
	You mean if you'd been deployed on the ground to go rescue the guy who'd been, who'd clipped or was down, right?
	Yes. That would have been a suicide mission, right?
	It was a suicide mission.
	When they sent those guys out, we were all, you know, we were like, man, we're probably not going to see those guys ever again.
	You know what? I just want to interrupt for a second.
	It's just a point in talking with military men, David.
	I mean, the one thing that I hear is that, man, you know, you read these stories of government waste, you know, oh, you know, they funded how tessie flies mate and, you know, like half a million.
	Like nobody understands government waste like a soldier does.
	Nobody. That is true.
	Uh, yeah. No, that is 100% true.
	And yeah, that was one of the things we were just sitting there.
	We were, you know, we were just all like, if, yeah, if they go, they, they, they did send them out and they were about halfway to, um, to, uh, I think it was around the Syrian border.
	Um, they're about halfway.
	There's a six hour flight. They were like almost three hours in before they called them off.
	Um, and it would have been, yeah, like they would have, they would have died.
	There would, there would have been no way, um, There would have been nobody that we could have been able to send.
	Anything else we would have thrown at it would have been all for naught because they had the upper hand over there and anybody else coming in after them would have died as well.
	So the whole thing you were trained for only happened once and then it wasn't even you and it was called off.
	Is that fair to say? Yes.
	Yes, it got called off. It was actually, I think it was like a day or two after we got off of our rotation because we did one week on Uh, one week off or one week on, uh, three weeks off, I believe.
	Yeah. If I can remember correctly.
	So yeah, that was everything we had trained for.
	And it was actually really funny because it wasn't something we trained for long.
	We literally had a month of training and then we deployed to go do it.
	So it was, you know, we were learning all of this stuff on the fly and then that happened and we were like, well, this is, this is bad news for, you know, anybody who's on that bird.
	And I had some friends on that bird too.
	And I was like, man, this is like, This is going to be tragic if they don't call it off, because there's not nothing we can do for those guys.
	Is it completely unfair for me to say, and tell me if it is, of course, that the greatest trauma was boredom?
	Oh, 100%.
	I don't want to tell you what it was like, but that just sounds like a whole lot of nothing, and it would drive me kind of crazy, right?
	Because you've got a lot of time to kill, and it's really, really hot.
	Yes, yes. It was extremely boring.
	The first one that, yeah, my first deployment was there was more opportunities for things to become kinetic, and it didn't happen.
	And then my second deployment, I was very pissed that they ended up sending me back to Kuwait, and I sat behind a desk.
	And I was very disgruntled, very bored, and just kind of irritated the whole time.
	You know, I didn't sign up.
	I didn't join the Marine Corps to sit behind a desk.
	I don't see that in the ads.
	Join the Marine Corps!
	You're always jumping out of helicopters and scaling ropes and it's like, hey man, has anyone seen my stapler?
	That's just not in the ad, right?
	Exactly. They don't really put the admin people in the front of their ads.
	It's usually the infantry, which I joined, running into a firefight and then they got the air support and artillery and all the fun stuff, but What they don't tell you is, if we're not doing all the fun stuff, you're doing whatever they need you to do, which is usually cleaning.
	One of the skills I did learn from the Marine Corps is, you need something cleaned, I'm your guy.
	I can clean that.
	I'm just getting that Batman voiceover.
	Yesterday, I got a paper cut.
	It's just not what you think.
	Not the most gripping movie around.
	Yeah, exactly. The highlight of our day was if we found a scorpion and made it fight a spider or something.
	That was the highlight of our day.
	Or the main prayer for the guy stuck in the admin is, please, never check my browser history.
	Exactly. That was pretty much all we did.
	That deployment, I think I smoked more cigarettes than I ever have in my entire life out of boredom.
	Because there was absolutely nothing to do.
	When we weren't training, we were just sitting in our rooms watching movies, and we'd go out to the smoke pit, smoke like six cigarettes, and then go back in.
	A lot of PlayStation. Yeah, it was actually funny, because when we had gotten there, we were the first ones to really occupy that base since, I want to say, if I remember correctly, since like The Gulf War, as far as U.S. forces are concerned.
	So it was just us out there.
	And then about three months in, the Air Force showed up and, you know, all the stereotypes are true about the Air Force.
	They can't live without Wi-Fi and steaks and all this other stuff.
	So literally when they showed up, we had nothing.
	We barely had a PX, like a little shopping mart.
	It had the bare essentials, you know, like The basic cigarettes, the basic soap, you know, basic everything.
	And then they showed up and we had, you know, all the cigarettes.
	They were selling consoles out of the, you know, the PX. They were selling, like, high-end electronics.
	Our Chow Hall got, you know, a mega stimulus package.
	They had steaks and, what was it, crab legs on Fridays.
	And it was nuts.
	It was absolutely nuts. Gotta keep the Flyboys happy.
	Exactly, exactly. I mean, when you get the biggest budget, you know, and all the armed forces, you can afford a few luxuries.
	Okay, so, but you were married, you got married before you deployed, right?
	Yes, I got married before I deployed.
	And then, so that was like, for a little over four years ago, if I've got that right, and then you got home.
	And was that when your wife got pregnant?
	No, she, we actually didn't get pregnant until, it was after my second deployment.
	It was the year I was getting out, 2017.
	Beginning of 2017, that's when we found out that she was pregnant.
	And that was, you know, it was a huge shocker.
	That was one of the things I had talked to her before.
	When we got married, I told her, I was like, look, I don't want to have a kid while I'm in because my dad was in the Navy when I was a kid, and he was gone a lot, and that's always bothered me that he wasn't around as much as I would have liked him to be.
	But he's an amazing man.
	I look up to him, and I appreciate his service, but that's something that bothered me, and that was something I didn't want to have happen to my family.
	I wanted to be done with the service before, you know, so I could spend the time and be there.
	I wanted to be there through the whole entire process, you know, from start to finish.
	So we had talked about that, but I told her because she was kind of getting worried, you know, because how I was sounding like that, she's like, well, what if we have a kid?
	Are you going to be mad? And I was like, no, I'm not going to be mad.
	If we have a kid, we have a kid.
	But, you know, I'm not trying to, I'm not going to, you know, make an effort.
	To have a kid until, you know, I'm done with my service, and then that can be more of a priority.
	But right now, I kind of want to get through this.
	Focus on... Well, did you...
	I mean, were you trying? I mean, were you having unprotected sex?
	I mean, how did this come about, if not in the biblical sense?
	You said what now? Yeah, did you...
	I mean, she got pregnant.
	Were you guys having unprotected sex?
	No, she was on birth control, and there's a funny story about that.
	Um... I bet you're not the first man in history to tell this story, but I'm certainly happy to hear.
	At first, I had thought it was one of the very, very few advertised small percentages that the birth control would fail, but And it was funny,
	during her whole pregnancy, she was, you know, giving me all sorts of guff, and, you know, like, whenever we were hanging out with friends and family, she'd be like, oh, well, somebody, you know, is super fertile, like a fast swimmers, you know, all those jokes, and I was like, well, I was like, hey, it takes two to tango, you know, it's not necessarily 100% my fault,
	and, you know, and I thought it was one of those things, and it turns out later, just based on the birth control that she was using, um, Basically, if you play your cards right, it'll allow you to delay or play with your menstruation cycle.
	She decided it was a good idea to do that, and so she could enjoy some time not dealing with her menstrual cycle over a holiday, and that is what caused the failure, because obviously the protection had worn out, and she had not utilized the other source of it, and then... Now we have a kid.
	And do you think that she wanted to get pregnant?
	I think so, because it was a thing where she was definitely trying to change my mind on having a kid as soon as possible, because she was like, I want to have kids while I'm young, I want to have kids while I'm young, this, that, and the other thing. I was like, I understand that, but I don't want to have a kid right now because I'm still...
	I'm still in the Marine Corps, and I don't want to, you know, especially if I'm in the job that I'm in, if anything happens, you know, we can get sent out, and then I won't see you guys for God knows how long.
	So I don't, I want that stability to be able to be there for my family.
	Wait, so you mean like, even after you're back, you get called up again, is that right?
	Yes, yes. On your stateside, we have this thing called, um, I cannot remember the acronym to save my life.
	Basically, there's a, there's a standby, uh, For a battalion to go on to a quick reaction force.
	So if anything were to happen in the world and we were to get sent out, you know, by the president or whatever, that that battalion is designated to go wherever.
	It doesn't matter where, you know, we have to have our gear packed ready to go for an entire month.
	So if anything were to kick off, we'd be the first ones out.
	And so that's always a possibility.
	And obviously if something catastrophic happened again, you know, War-wise or whatever, we're obviously going to mobilize.
	So just that possibility, especially with things in the Middle East at that time, it wasn't certain, you know, if they were going to stick to the bombing campaign or if they were going to try to do something more kinetic and actually commit boots on ground outside of Special Forces and whatnot.
	So that was just a possibility, and that was something that kind of worried me.
	So I was like, you know, I want to be away from that before we try to have a family.
	And then... And obviously that last year I was in, found out she was pregnant in February, and then I was getting out in June of 2017.
	Okay, so you were around for most of the pregnancy and the birth, is that right?
	Yes. Okay. Yes.
	Yeah, I was around for all of that, and that was a lot more of a nightmare than I thought it was going to be.
	Wait, what do you mean? Oh, just the way she was acting while she was pregnant.
	It was a really weird dynamic.
	And, you know, I understand hormones and, you know, a lot of things changing, a lot of discomforts and stuff like that.
	But she was just really nasty, really, you know, mean-spirited, would go out of her way just to be nasty and mean.
	And I had told her, I had a conversation with her, You know, after she had pregnant, just because, I mean, everything kind of stopped at that point, just like intimacy, just, you know, being civil, just small things.
	I was just like, I told her, I was like, I feel like now that you're pregnant, you got what you wanted from me, and now I'm no longer relevant, you know?
	Let's just pause on this for a sec, because, I mean, this is a big fear that men have.
	I'm not sure if you had it at the time, how much Kanye West you've been listening to, but...
	But the big fear, of course, is that once the woman is pregnant, she's kind of got you, right?
	Because if she decides to leave you, she gets the alimony, she gets the child support.
	And so once she's gotten pregnant, the balance of power kind of shifts gradually.
	To her, and if she has ill intent, or if she's been kind of faking being normal for a while, where she can kind of let her crazy flag fly at the top of the flagpole, so to speak.
	Is that what we're talking about, or is it something else?
	I mean, I guess there's some aspects of that that would be relevant in hindsight.
	I don't think, at the time, that wasn't something I was concerned about.
	But now, you know, now we're in the midst of all this stuff and that definitely has that, you know, that power imbalance element to it, which, you know, it just makes things more fun.
	Um, but I wasn't, you know, I had, uh, there was some stuff in the beginning where I had some, you know, some fears and anxieties and gut feelings that I ignored, um, with, especially with the kind of the rush into everything.
	And, uh, part of it was on me as well, but, you know, initially, um, I had come home from California to visit her.
	And even before that trip, I was there for about, I want to say I was about two weeks or whatever.
	And before I left, she was really pushing me to date her and whatnot.
	And I was just like, I don't know.
	I think it's a little too soon.
	Like, I kind of want to wait things out.
	And My stipulations is, you know, I was raised right.
	I'm kind of old-fashioned in that sense.
	So my thing was, I was like, well, if I'm going to do that, I need to ask your dad permission.
	So she was really pushing me the night we made it official.
	She was really, really, really, really, really pushing me to, you know, she's like, go talk to him, go talk to him, go talk to him.
	I was like, I don't know. Like, it seems so soon.
	And I had my hesitations about it.
	And just, you know, she just kept pressuring, pressuring, pressuring.
	And I ended up doing it.
	And... So there's this stuff.
	And I told her, too, some of my fears was that she, you know, I was her ticket out because, I mean, her family situation was not great.
	And she was kind of, you know, floating around.
	She had just graduated and, you know, didn't really have much going for her.
	And that aspect was probably going to be, you know, in our hometown for a while until she figured out school and all that other stuff.
	So I told her, you know, I kind of felt like, I had fears that, you know, I was just kind of a ticket out of where we lived and stuff.
	And that kind of, during that process, you know, that stuff kind of, you know, felt more potent, you know, especially during the pregnancy and all that stuff dealing without.
	What was her degree in?
	She didn't go to school, college-wise.
	Oh, so you said she graduated.
	Did you mean high school? Yes.
	Okay. Got it. Yes. Oh, yeah.
	So she didn't really have any place to go or anything to do or any particular ambition, if I understand this correctly.
	And so I want to say hooking into you, but you're kind of a ticket, right?
	Like a ticket out, as you say, maybe a meal ticket too, right?
	Yes. Not to say that you're not a great guy.
	I mean, sure you are. But just as far as that cash practicality goes.
	Yeah, and I mean just being in the military, consistent paycheck, a lot of benefits.
	The stereotype, we have that phrase.
	We call them dependers, the spouses of military members, especially there are more predatory types who seek out military members for those benefits and for that steady income and all that other stuff.
	I love a paycheck in uniform, I think the song goes, if I remember it rightly, something like that.
	Exactly, exactly.
	So, you know, I had those feelings about it, but, you know, she was like, oh, no, that's not the case.
	Like, I'm here for you, and, you know, this, that, and the other thing.
	But, you know, words and actions that weren't really lining up.
	Just our time in California was rough, and I kind of chalked a lot of it to, you know, well, this is the first time she's been away from her family, and, you know, the stress of military life is a lot, you know, and it does take a toll on your relationships and stuff, and all around us, like all of our friends.
	We're going through it, and it was the funny thing is that we were doing the best out of everybody.
	So that kind of, I guess, incentivized complacency when it came to just problems in general, because it's like, oh, well, at least we're not doing as bad as Bob and Jane, you know?
	Okay, sorry, David.
	Let's just go back a little bit here, because...
	I want to know what the red flags were, specifically, and why you bypassed them, or why you got dragged behind your penis to bypass them, or whatever happened.
	You know, we're all men, so we could be flagged with each other, right?
	So what was scary, and why did you, I guess, ignore it?
	So one of the first red flags I noticed in the beginning was just a very blatant and flamboyant display of insecurities, because we had, you know, The talk about, you know, how many relationships have you been in and stuff like that.
	And I had, you know, No shame in my game.
	I've only slept with two people, including my wife.
	No, see, that's a good thing. No, no, listen, man.
	I'm not going to, you know, give the player medal out because the fact that you've retained your capacity to pair bond and you don't, you know, you're a good-looking, I've seen your picture, right?
	A good-looking military guy.
	You could have gotten around, but you've kept yourself able to pair bond.
	That's a good thing, right? Yeah, I mean, it's hardwired.
	I've tried to defy my coding, and it just doesn't work.
	Just not who I am as a person.
	So, it is a good thing.
	It kind of bites me in the butt a little bit, but, you know, it's a good thing.
	But, yeah, so that was that situation where we were, you know, just talking about that stuff.
	And I've only, you know, had one girlfriend before I got married.
	Yeah, before I got with my wife.
	And... And as I'm on the phone with her talking about this stuff, she goes out of her way to, you know, look up my ex on social media and then proceeds to berate her in front of me basically because we're on the phone with her mom.
	And that really made me upset because, you know, my thing is...
	Wait, what? Hang on. Sorry, you're just jumping around here.
	I want to make sure I follow the story. So you tell her who your ex is.
	She looks your ex up in social media and you're on the phone with your...
	Girlfriend's mom? And she's crapping on your ex?
	No. I'm on the phone with her and we're not in a relationship at this time.
	It's not even official. And she is in the kitchen of her parents' house with her mom and they're going back and forth ragging on my ex while I'm still on the phone.
	Wow. Yes.
	And I got really upset because my thing is...
	I've always tried to maintain some sort of civility with people I interact with, whether we're friends or more than friends or whatever.
	I like to maintain a friendship or some sort of civil contact.
	And I was like, listen, just because I'm not with her does not mean I don't care about her as a person and I really don't appreciate her.
	You, you know, being disrespectful to somebody that I care about, you know?
	Well, it's also disrespectful to you, right?
	Because if there's a woman that you dated, and they're all like, oh, she's a skank, she's a whore, she's a...
	I don't know, whatever they were saying.
	It probably wasn't that harsh. But, you know, she's ugly, she's fat, whatever, right?
	Well, that's to your judgment, right?
	I mean, why would you be with somebody who was that terrible unless you had terrible judgment?
	Like, you cannot insult a guy's exes or a woman's exes without insulting her, and by extension, yourself.
	So it's just a mess all around.
	Exactly, yes. So that was one of the first major red flags that had popped up.
	And, you know, it was just like...
	My thinking around that time is why I kind of, you know, just...
	Not necessarily swept it on the rug, but after I dressed it, left it alone, was...
	Because I'm thinking, like, it was like, look, you know, obviously she's a little immature, you know, she's young and everything.
	So I was like, I'll just chalk it up to being young and immature, you know.
	And so proceeded to move on with that stuff.
	And just, you know, some of the things to think about, like, in hindsight, just, you know, how passively manipulative she was being about certain things.
	And then the pressure... To, you know, date her and stuff like that.
	That was a red flag because I'm just thinking like, what's the rush?
	What's the rush, you know?
	And how did she pressure you today?
	Just, you know, because I was at her house and we were talking about it and I was just, you know, and I was telling her, I was like, look, you know, I think maybe we should just wait.
	Like, you know, I don't feel comfortable about doing this right now, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	And she just kept, you know, just kept nagging about it and just like, oh, come on, do it.
	Like, Let's just make it official, just constantly, not in my face combative about it, but just kind of, I guess, more of a guilt trip in that sense.
	Sorry, but you hadn't slept with her yet, or you weren't dating her at this point, is that right?
	So what can she guilt trip you about?
	Well... We had slept together, and to put it frankly...
	Sorry, so you slept together with her, and then she was like, well, make me your girlfriend, right?
	Make me a semi-honest woman on my way to being an honest woman, so to speak.
	No, it was not like that at all.
	It was actually quite the opposite.
	She basically jumped my bones the first night that we were hanging out, and...
	And then near the end of that trip, she was just like, make it official.
	Because, I mean, at the beginning of the day, we kind of confessed that we loved each other and all that other stuff, so that was there.
	But she actually initiated on that.
	And that was definitely interesting.
	Frankly, I never had that happen.
	I thought you were like Mr.
	Old Fashioned Guy and take your time.
	And so, I mean, what did she do?
	Did she just take off her top and jump your...
	Or what happened? Pretty much.
	Like, pretty much.
	Honestly, it was all happening way too quickly before I realized what was happening.
	And I was just like, okay.
	I was so shocked, you know, I didn't even have an orgasm.
	If I'm just going to be honest.
	So, it was definitely an interesting interaction.
	I mean, I don't mean to get all sensitive on that, but I mean, it sounds halfway to a Me Too moment.
	I've thought about it.
	I really have, and it's not not something I wanted, but I had told her, would I mind having sex?
	Absolutely not. I'm a guy, let's be honest.
	But it wasn't my priority, and it wasn't something I was trying to pursue off the jump like that, especially first interactions in person.
	Since, you know, that long period over those months that we were talking, everything like that.
	But I wouldn't necessarily say it was a Me Too thing because, you know, as unexpected as it was, it's not like, oh, you know, this isn't something wanted.
	And I was like, oh, no, let's not, you know, because I didn't fight it.
	Like, let's be honest, I didn't fight it.
	It was definitely interesting, but I didn't, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't, I wouldn't say it was that deep.
	But that means that's a huge red flag there, right?
	Which is you're basically being sex-bombed into a kind of vagina cult, right?
	Because it's like the bonding mechanism and so on that kicks in for men and for women when sexual activity occurs.
	And again, I mean, obviously you could have said no and all of that, but it is, to me, a huge red flag if a woman puts on, like, the sexual tsunami kind of out of nowhere.
	That's an attempt to get you to bond and to not evaluate her personality, if that makes sense.
	Yes. In hindsight, yes, I 100% agree with you.
	Like I said, hindsight is 20-20.
	Thinking back on it, yeah, that was definitely a calculated move on her part to get things jump-started.
	I understand that now.
	It was something at the time where I was like, well, that was kind of really weird.
	It's not something I've had happen, but Then again, it's not like I have a long history of dating a bunch of people and have a real grid to base that off of.
	But even then, just having that limited knowledge that I did have, I was just like, yeah, this is not normal.
	Alright, so you've listened to the show a bunch, right?
	So I'm sure you know the next question I'm going to ask.
	I have an idea, but surprise me.
	Alright, David. How pretty was she?
	She's definitely good looking.
	It's kind of interesting because her look's not necessarily what drew me in.
	There's always that aspect of carnal desire and all that stuff like that.
	She's obviously good looking enough that Uh, that that was a factor, but it wasn't a selling point.
	Um, you know, cause we really bonded, connected with some similarities and stuff like that.
	And it, and I felt an actual connection with her outside of that stuff.
	And we had spent so much time talking, um, without that physical aspect, um, that I, you know, I felt like we had a connection, uh, and that's the stuff I can look for.
	Um, But the red flags, right?
	So the red flags are she jumps your bones.
	The red flags are she's bitching about your ex with her mom.
	You said that her family situation was bad.
	And what was going on there?
	Oh, her family, like, it was bad.
	You know, a lot of drug use.
	Her brothers were, you know, their parents didn't really police their own per se.
	So their brothers, her brothers were kind of running around, you know, running amok, doing, you know, dealing drugs and being promiscuous and stuff like that.
	And her parents as well, especially her dad was, you know, he was using drugs and her mom was pretty manipulative and abusive in that regard.
	And just their history.
	Okay, but you actually understand, like, my jaw's on the floor.
	And everybody who listens to this, their jaw's going to be on the floor.
	law.
	Like, what the hell?
	What the hell?
	I was literally listening to a few of your other one-on-one interviews, and I was just like, I know, as soon as I tell him this stuff, it's just gonna be like, dude, really?
	And, you know, I was bracing for him back, because I knew this was gonna come to this, so...
	A family drug day?
	Yeah. Are you kidding me?
	Family on drugs? You got, what, gang-banging, drug-dealing brothers?
	Oh my god!
	Yeah, so that's why...
	Your dad's a Navy guy, and you're a stand-up guy, and then you get drawn into this, like, this mafia?
	Like, what the hell? Yeah, hindsight's 20-20.
	No, no, come on, that's not a hindsight situation here.
	Like, you know, you asked me for some tough love, right?
	Come on. This is not a hindsight, like, you know, well, in hindsight, you know, I guess the drug-dealing family structure was, it's like, this is not a hindsight situation, right?
	The hindsight situation is, you know, that little clue that she dropped in that conversation, when I look back on that, I could really see I should have explored that more, not, her family is a crime gang.
	Understandable. Yeah. No, I mean, it makes sense.
	Is this out of the norm?
	Like, for you? Sorry to interrupt.
	Is this, like, out of the norm for you?
	Like, I mean, do you have a lot of this stuff in your life?
	Definitely a culture shock, because my family is a very religious family.
	Pretty straight edge as far as, you know...
	In my lifetime, not to say that my parents, I mean, they had their crazy moments when they were younger and stuff like that.
	But as far as when, you know, me and my other siblings were growing up, they were really straight edge, you know.
	Went to church every Sunday.
	We were at church forever every Sunday.
	Like, we were the people who stayed until they basically closed the building, you know.
	So it was definitely a culture shock in that sense.
	Like, I had known people whose families were, like, similar to that.
	But... Never something, you know, so close.
	It was not something you kind of invited into your life, so to speak, right?
	Yeah. Yeah, I knew people whose family life was really chaotic and crazy in that regard, but yeah, it was nothing like I didn't...
	I mean, there's chaotic and crazy.
	Then there's like criminal and dangerous and, you know, potential violence.
	And, you know, this is like, this is like, this is not even cool outlaw stuff.
	Like, you know, he's a tax resistor.
	You know, this is just like, kind of nasty, right?
	Yeah, no. Yeah.
	It was definitely a poor judgment on my part.
	But why were you judging alone, right?
	So sorry to interrupt, man. So you've got a family, right?
	And your family is, you know, straight up.
	You've got a dad who was in the Navy.
	You've got church. You've got morals.
	You've got, you know, a good family as far as I understand it.
	So did you talk to them about...
	The, you know, crime gang with the aggressive vagina family?
	I mean, did they say, yeah, seems good.
	We'd love to have them as in-laws.
	Like, what happened with your family and their relationship to your girlfriend?
	I mean, honestly, there wasn't, like...
	There wasn't a lot of pushback.
	And the funny thing was, I mean, when they actually met her, she was very forthcoming with, you know, her family problems in that sense, kind of like what her brothers are doing and her parents and stuff like that and their history.
	But, I mean, honestly, nobody had really said anything to me.
	The only person that really gave me any sort of pushback when it came to her It was my older sister, but at the time she was living on the East Coast.
	And I don't remember what it was, but we weren't really talking very often.
	So the most reliable failsafe in my life was not being utilized by communicating with her.
	So everybody else, I mean...
	I feel like they had something to say, but they just didn't say it to me.
	There was one night my dad did, you know, we were sitting down talking about it.
	You know, I was like, Dad, you know, it was honestly, it was like, tantamount to the 16 year old girl and any, you know, any high school flick where she's like, Dad, but I love him.
	You know, it was kind of that conversation, but flip side.
	Oh, but you said, Dad, but I love her, right?
	Yeah, that's pretty much how that conversation went.
	And he kind of just looked at me and he's like, alright.
	Because since the point I graduated, he sat me down and we had a conversation man to man.
	And he was like, look, you're a man now.
	That means you've got to figure things out for yourself.
	I'm always going to be here to help you.
	And I'll give you advice, but I'm not going to tell you how to live your life.
	I get that.
	I get that.
	But I mean, help me, man, because I'm not I'm not clicking something here.
	Like I'm just not because listen, if you and my son and you're like, yeah, this this woman from a crime family jumped my bones and and really, really wants to date me.
	I'd be like, you know, sorry, son, I'm going to have to gently remove your penis.
	Don't worry, I'll put it on ice.
	I'll cryogenically freeze it and I will reattach you when the blood flow starts to hit your fucking brain again.
	You know, because this is an absolutely terrible idea.
	And listen, I can't order you around.
	I'm not your commanding officer.
	I'm not your, you know, you're not a kid anymore.
	But I can tell you this, like...
	I'd slap you on the head with a wet fish if I thought it would help you get out of this crazed days of like, yeah, let's go join the Cram family and wed their family to ours.
	And wouldn't it be great if we got those genetics in our kids?
	And wouldn't it be great if we had these people over all the time doing drugs and having, like, cops chase them and shit, right?
	I mean, it'd be like, I am not going to support this, you know?
	Like, you can't do this.
	And if you do do this, you're going to do it completely without me because I can't watch you put your heart through this kind of blender.
	Yeah. And I would agree with you.
	And like I said, if it was, you know, me with my child, I would definitely be on the more aggressive side of, you know, like, hey, I'm not in the business of telling you how to live your life, but you might want to double check this one before you do anything.
	So why not? Why didn't that happen?
	Help me understand, man.
	You know what? I really don't know.
	I really don't know.
	And we, you know, the funny thing is, was after we got married, We would visit when we could and everything.
	We joked about the fact that nobody said anything about how quickly all of this happened.
	We joked with them.
	We were like, you guys just let us do this.
	And nobody said anything.
	Nobody on her side, nobody on my side.
	It's kind of just like, oh, okay, well, this is happening.
	Tell us when to show up to the wedding.
	And, you know, we joked about it with, you know, with all of our family.
	Because you said that her mom was, like, dangerous and manipulative.
	And isn't that exactly what's most concerning you about your wife at the moment?
	Yes. And it's actually funny because...
	My biological mother, who I don't have a relationship with right now, she shares a lot of similarities, my wife, well, soon-to-be ex-wife, and my mother, which is partly why I don't talk to my biological mother anymore, because I just got tired of dealing with her being manipulative and being emotionally abusive and all that other stuff.
	Yeah. Which is funny is now I'm, you know, getting divorced with a person who is just like my biological mother.
	Again, you're not the first man in history to tell that story.
	And I'm really sorry about this.
	So what was the case?
	Sorry, what was the case with your mom?
	Your parents are still together. Is that right?
	No. I'm sorry.
	Sorry to interrupt. But you said you grew up in a split home.
	I wasn't sure if that was to do with the fact that your dad was just gone all the time or whether that was actual divorce.
	Sorry if I missed that. No, no, no, you're fine.
	Yeah, he did get divorced when I was young.
	I know they got remarried, or he got remarried when I was three.
	So it all happened when I was super young and my stepmom was in the picture when I was about three or four.
	So I've lived with him All my life, if that puts it in perspective of what kind of person my biological mother is.
	How was your stepmom?
	Did your dad trade up to someone more sane, or how did that go?
	Yes and no. I... I had a realization when, actually, it was a funny story.
	I was listening to another one of your one-on-one interviews, the How to Kill Self-Hatred.
	And... I had this big epiphany and after I got done listening to that I called my sister and I had this long conversation with her because you know my siblings especially my older and younger sister you know have everything to say about my parents you know and I was always the one who was like hey you know guys like let's like I understand they're not perfect but like be appreciative or appreciate the fact that you know Our life was pretty good.
	They gave us a lot. It wasn't perfect, but it could have been worse.
	This, that, and the other thing.
	And then after listening to that, I had the epiphany because you had mentioned to that young woman in there kind of sweeping the misdeeds of those people under the rug because you are in an effort to be grateful and have gratitude for what you had.
	And that was kind of the situation with them where I kind of idolized them and overlooked all their mistakes because I realized my life could have been worse, especially if I ended up with my biological mother.
	So, you know...
	I'm sorry, just for those who don't know, like, so the idea is, you know, it's fine to be happy you dodged a bullet, but at some point you have to wonder why the hell you were in the line of fire to begin with, right?
	Exactly. Yeah.
	Exactly. That's exactly true.
	When I listened to that, it kind of rocked my world.
	I called my sister. I was like, hey, I feel like I need to apologize.
	I've kind of been lionizing our parents and not really being realistic about the situation.
	There's a balance to it.
	You can appreciate the good, but you can also criticize the bad.
	That was something I realized during that.
	With my stepmom, I do appreciate the fact that she didn't have to She didn't have to marry my dad.
	She didn't have to step into the situation with two kids who aren't even her own, you know, and raise us and deal with all that and deal with my, you know, my biological mother and all the harassment that was coming from her end.
	And she didn't have to do all that, you know.
	And so that's what I was trying to be grateful about.
	But then again, my stepmother, and she's starting to realize this now, she's a bit of a narcissist and that really She played a role in our development, especially when we were younger.
	She kind of labeled us based on just some surface level traits.
	And my sister was a little bit more outgoing than I was.
	Not by much, but just enough.
	And she got labeled as the extrovert and got the attention as an extroverted person.
	And I got labeled an introvert and got treated as an introverted person.
	And over these last probably two years, I'm just starting to realize that that's not who I am as a person.
	I'm not really an introvert.
	I have introverted tendencies.
	I do enjoy my alone time.
	I do enjoy not being around people, but I don't like to sit at the house all day.
	I like to get out, go meet people, go do things.
	But when I was growing up, I got treated like I was an introvert.
	I Lived in the basement of the house for a while, and I pretty much got left to my own vices.
	I stayed in my room all the time.
	I would go to work or go to school, and just come back and be in my room.
	And, you know, nobody would come down there and interact with me or call me up or just to, you know, do something.
	I pretty much just stayed in there until dinner was ready, went up, ate dinner, and then went back in my room.
	So that was a part of that stuff, just, you know, because my stepmom, she thought she knew, you know, Who we were, and I don't think she really wanted to, not necessarily wanted to take the time to know who we were,
	figure out who we were, but I think she just, you know, Yeah, I mean, it's easy to think that you're an introvert if you just don't like the people who are around you.
	Because you're avoiding them.
	You're not avoiding people as a whole.
	You're just not getting along with the people around you.
	So you end up spending a lot of time in your room.
	And of course, a functional family would say, gosh, you know, why are you spending so much time in your room?
	Let's figure out what's not working for you in the social situation so that you can enjoy the family time together more.
	But dysfunctional families just label you an introvert and don't look in the mirror and say, what are we doing, right?
	Exactly. Yeah, there was a lot of that.
	Growing up, I've never really had any sort of self-confidence before.
	At all. Even to this day, it's still something I'm trying to work on.
	So it wasn't really, you know, I would, when it came to those situations, like socially and stuff like that, I wasn't, you know, the person out there.
	It's just, you know, trying to, you know, trying to meet everybody, talk to everybody and do all that stuff, you know.
	So I struggled with, you know.
	Being outgoing and stuff like that.
	When I was a kid, I fell into video games, especially when the internet became more of a thing and online gaming and online everything.
	That's something I fell into just because of Being lonely, and I was homeschooled for a little bit, so I didn't really have much of a social life, so I fell hardcore into being online, being into video games and all that stuff.
	Hang on, hang on. Sorry. I can't have you dissing the whole homeschooling thing, because there's nothing wrong with homeschooling kids' social life.
	This, the homeschooling, the social life stuff was an issue with your family.
	The homeschooling, I guess you could say, well, it didn't allow me to have access to as many other kids.
	But just most homeschool kids have perfectly great socializations and, in fact, better than they would if they're dumped in schools.
	I'm sorry, that's just my own particular fetish.
	So, you know, just continue on with your story.
	I just wanted to break for that little announcement.
	Yeah, understandable.
	My qualms at homeschooling, I mean, are a little different, having experienced it.
	And just so... Just the quality of it, I think that plays into it as well.
	And it not being something I wanted to do is kind of something I got forced into doing, you know.
	And so I kind of have, you know, a negative bias of homeschooling.
	I understand the utility and especially with how the school systems are going these days.
	I would probably advocate for it.
	But, you know, it's just I had a bad experience with it.
	I understand that it's not, you know.
	No, not, hashtag not all homeschoolers.
	Okay, so listen, I want to make sure that we get to, I mean, it's a great conversation.
	I'm really, really enjoying it. But I just want to make sure we get to the core of the matter, which is currently what's going on with your ex.
	So do you mind if we do a little cassette tape squeal fast forward and just get to what's going on with your ex at the moment?
	And we'll see how this stuff ties in.
	And I really, really appreciate the backstory, but I want to make sure we get to that.
	Okay, no, that makes sense.
	Yeah, so basically how things are going on now.
	So about, I want to say seven, I think six or seven months ago, well, even earlier than that, you know, she was kind of being more open about having, you know, just not being sure of us and all this stuff, you know, just kind of having some doubts about our relationship and stuff.
	And I mean, To be honest, it's nothing new.
	And when we were in California, she, you know, when things were going bad, she would, I mean, she probably threatened to divorce me like six or seven times collectively.
	So, I mean, this wasn't new, but just the way she was presenting this conversation.
	And what were her complaints? Sorry.
	What were her complaints in California?
	You know, just like, Honestly, at this point, I'm not even sure if it's reality just based on how things are going now.
	But she would just say, I don't treat her right.
	I'm not emotionally supporting her.
	That usually means just blindly agreeing, right?
	Yeah, basically.
	Yeah. Because I'm the type of person, if somebody's going to tell me something, especially if it's a situation that involves two people and I'm getting the story from one side, I don't accept it wholesale.
	I need the other side of the story before I can make a judgment on it.
	And that's something that really irritated her because she just wanted blind support.
	She just wanted to be like, oh yeah, you're right about the situation, but I'm not that person.
	It doesn't sit well with me if I have one side of the story.
	I have a curiosity.
	I need to know the other side.
	I need to know the other perspective before I can actually make a judgment on it.
	If I had to take a guess on where that was coming from, it was probably that.
	It's just stuff like that.
	She's like, things are bad or whatever.
	I would tell her when we get into these arguments, I'd be like, look, if things are as truly as bad as you believe they are, then you should probably leave.
	If that is the reality, if actually that is the reality, you should probably leave because you're not doing yourself a favor.
	You're not doing me a favor. If I'm really treating you as bad as you think I am, then it sounds like your option is to leave for yourself and just for your own well-being in the hopes that she would realize how ridiculous she's being, that things aren't as bad as she thinks they are.
	Just because they're not good doesn't mean it's catastrophic.
	I've never... Never put my hands on her or anything.
	Actually, it was quite the contrary.
	She was very physically abusive for a while while we were out there in California, which is another red flag.
	Wait, wait. What now? Tell me about this.
	She was pretty physically abusive.
	She would hit me when she got mad.
	She would throw stuff at me.
	There was one night, I remember, we really got into it.
	For life, I couldn't even tell you what the conversation was about.
	Uh, I had, you know, we just got into about something, uh, stupid probably, and then it just escalated.
	And then, you know, when we get into these arguments, I would just get to the point to where, you know, when I'm not being, when I feel like I'm not being listened to, I shut down.
	And I stopped caring. And that would really piss her off.
	That's why I'm trying not to interrupt you, man.
	I'm really trying. I'm just kidding. No, you're fine.
	I'm just kidding. So far, you're actually showing some interest.
	So, you know, it's a little bit different. But no, she would, you know, and but she would also know what to say to shut me up.
	So she'd do it on purpose and then get pissed when I wouldn't react because I'm just like, I'm done with this conversation.
	I don't want to talk about it. Like, leave me alone, you know.
	There's no point in having this conversation, and she would get mad because she wants a reaction.
	She wants to fight. And then she just went ballistic.
	She threw a candle at me, not even a small candle.
	I'm talking about Bed Bath& Beyond, like three-way candle, one of the big ones, at me.
	And then she was threatening to break our TV and my Xbox and all this other stuff.
	And I was just like, dude, I was like, don't.
	Like, leave myself alone.
	And it got to the point where it's like, look, I don't care anymore.
	Do what you want. I'm going to bed.
	I have to work tomorrow. You know, I'm still in the military.
	I got to get up at Zero Dark Stupid.
	I got to sleep. You know, if you want to keep staying up and throwing your tantrum, that's fine.
	That has nothing to do with me.
	So I was just like, you know, leave me alone.
	And that's when she turned it up a notch.
	And as I go upstairs to the room, she came up there yelling at me still.
	I turned the light off.
	She came in there turning the light on like, oh, you're not going to sleep because I'm mad type stuff.
	And so I was like, okay, then I'll just go downstairs.
	So I went downstairs, followed me downstairs, upstairs, downstairs, upstairs, downstairs.
	So I finally went upstairs and I locked the door.
	I was like, leave me alone. And she was banging, beating on the doors and managed to bang the door down, impressively enough.
	And I was like, okay, well this isn't going to work.
	Wait, she came through a locked door?
	Yeah, I mean...
	What is she, some kind of Sherman tank ninja?
	Like, that's not an easy thing to do.
	It actually is pretty easy because the doors were messed up and the place to begin with, the frame was terrible and the lock was, you know, it was garbage.
	So, you know, if you hit it in the right angle, especially around the lock.
	That's like a scene in a horror movie now.
	This is like Jack Nicholson leering through the shining door, you know?
	Here's Johnny! I was just thinking that.
	Here's wifey! It's better because...
	It gets better because then I go up there.
	Like all the seagulls of horror movies are flying through your brain, right?
	Jesus. Exactly.
	And I was, you know, I'm just getting at this point because I'm just like, I'm just like, I just want to go to sleep.
	So go back, you know, go back downstairs.
	She follows me, go upstairs. And I managed to get up there quicker than her this time.
	So I shut the door and I barricaded it.
	I was like, okay, get through that.
	Good God. And she's banging on the door, you know.
	She's screaming, and then she starts crying, and she's like, you know, so then I go out there, and I was like, dude, like, what is the problem?
	Like, are you actually going to talk, or can I just go to bed?
	Because you're going to keep doing this. Like, I'm not doing this, you know?
	And she was, you know, and then we kind of talked for a little bit, and then I ended up opening the door.
	I was like, okay, I will unbarricade this door if you just leave me alone.
	Like, if you just leave me alone, I will unlock the door.
	I will keep it open, whatever.
	Just, like, leave me alone. She's like, okay.
	Yeah, that wasn't her plan.
	So I unlock the door, and she goes downstairs, and five minutes later, she comes back upstairs, and I'm just sitting there.
	At this point, I'm on DEFCON 1.
	I'm just like, okay, I don't believe that.
	She probably got something else up her sleeve.
	She comes back upstairs with a kitchen knife, and is just standing next to the side of the bed, looking at me.
	And I told her, I was like, look, if...
	You are planning on doing what I think.
	I feel we've escalated things just a little bit, honey.
	Kitchen knife by your bed.
	I told her, I was like, look, if you are going to do what I think you're going to do, then you better do it right the first time because you are not getting a second chance.
	And I was like, I'm just going to leave it on that.
	So you might want to do something or you might want to leave.
	You better figure it out now.
	And so I laid down and I was just looking at her, you know.
	Because my training, I got military training.
	It's not going to be a very equal contest.
	Yeah, no, I get that. It's not going to be equal.
	I weighed more than her at the time.
	I still do. Yeah, it's just not going to be pretty for her.
	And then I don't remember what happened, but she ended up calming down and everything like that.
	So that was a huge red flag situation with her anger issues.
	Now, this is before your child was born, right?
	Okay. Yes. And how long did you be married at this point?
	That was about...
	I'd say maybe like a year, year and a half, probably somewhere in that time frame.
	And during the time, like before you get married, did anything...
	I don't want to say like this, because I mean, that would be nuts.
	But I mean, in this direction, or this kind of escalation, or invasiveness, or like...
	I don't know if it's just...
	Her getting more angry about situations than it would normally be expected.
	She would blow things out of proportion, get very angry, be kind of verbally abusive in that regard.
	Not so much.
	We only argued maybe two or three times before Before we started dating, and then when we started dating, when I was on deployment, we argued all the time, and it just kept escalating and escalating.
	She would just get angrier and angrier, because I'm not doing things the way she wants it.
	You said she was verbally abusive, so what would she say to you that would fall in that category?
	She would compare me to her ex, who was physically abusive, which I'd never laid a hand on her.
	She would compare me to her dad, which, you know, he was not a very good guy.
	So she knew how to, you know, she knew how to hit me where it hurts because I, not that I really care what other people think of me, but if it's somebody that I actually care about, their opinion matters.
	So, you know, and especially her, because at the time, and, you know, it's like, I love you and I want to be with you.
	And if you think, if you really think I'm like that person, even though I've done everything to the contrary, Like, that really hurts my feelings.
	So just stuff like that, you know, just kind of undermine me and berate me and stuff like that.
	Like, oh, you know, you don't do enough or, you know, just like you don't, you know, you don't care about me, you don't love me type stuff.
	And just, you know, just this is stupid, typical angry woman.
	Let me get underneath your skin and hurt your feelings.
	Yeah. So, I mean, and I was, you know, still dealing with, I mean, still am dealing with self-confidence issues and stuff like that.
	So, you know, it just hurt even more because I don't really have much of a buffer in that regard to kind of withstand those fiery arrows.
	Listen, I'm really, really sorry.
	That's a terrifying thing to go through.
	And did you share at the time with anyone how she was treating you, like, before you got married?
	Um, I would, I had a few friends of mine I would talk to about it and just be like, hey, one of my good friends, Casey, he would, you know, he was really good about making sure that he would point out where I was being, you know, where I went wrong on situations as well.
	No, but did anyone say, like, run Crime Family Girl is not going to be a fun marriage?
	Like, did anyone say this is, like, you can't accept this?
	It's not a... It's not...
	The only person, really, who said that was my sister, my older sister.
	And they had a little, they got into it, you know, a few days before the wedding, and I had to go on, you know, I had to put out the fires with that situation.
	But the funny thing is, what my sister was saying, what was said about her wasn't 100% wrong, but I was like, your delivery was terrible, and it's making this more of an issue than it actually needs to be.
	Um, so, and then it was partly because, you know, you know, my ex-wife has a lot of insecurities and whatever, and if anybody's coming at her, she doesn't like hearing the truth, and she doesn't like, she's a narcissist.
	She doesn't think she is ever part of the problem or the problem she thinks is everybody else.
	Um, so if somebody comes at her and telling her...
	Well, I mean, listen, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but to be fair, you didn't like hearing the truth either.
	Right? That your sister was telling you while you were dating this woman, right?
	I mean... I'm not putting you in the same category, like you're not standing over your sister with a knife and you're not beating down the door and screaming and abuse.
	I'm not putting you in the same category, but as far as willingness to listen to the truth, right?
	I mean, there was at least one person in your life who tried to wake you up to this, right?
	But up until we were getting married, me and my sister weren't really in communication, you know?
	So like I said, at the time, there wasn't really anybody saying anything and then my sister, we didn't really start speaking consistently until right around before I was getting married.
	And then she didn't really know a lot about- And then you feel like you're kind of on a slippery slope there and putting the brakes on.
	It's one thing before you start the bobsled run to jump out of the bobsled.
	It's quite another thing when you're halfway down and it's like death lute, right?
	Yeah, exactly. It was just like...
	It was like...
	Yeah, it's like, you know, at that point...
	And it was... A problem that I have, personally, is I will go out of my way to, you know, defend somebody.
	Even if... What people are saying is true.
	I will still try to look for the good in people, and it's a blessing and a curse.
	You're a soldier, and all soldiers to some degree or another, and it's not a criticism.
	I think it's a wonderful aspect, but soldiers do have a bit of a salvation complex, right?
	Which is we're going to go out there and save the world.
	We're going to fix Iraq. We're going to fix Afghanistan.
	We're going to make it into a Jeffersonian democracy.
	There is a kind of salvation complex to a lot of military men and I guess some women too.
	So it's not shocking.
	And it's one thing if you're in a situation where you're a soldier but of course it doesn't really work in personal relationships, right?
	Yeah. Yeah, I mean, exactly.
	So, you know, and it's been me in the ass a few times, you know, being wrong about people or just, you know, like, what's my biological mother?
	I used to always be in her corner and defend her, you know, when it came to my family, just, you know, they were talking about her, you know, in a negative light, all true things.
	And I'd be like, wait, you know, hey, guys, let's let, you know, She's not all bad, you know, she's just not perfect, and this, that, and the other thing, and it took a very long time for me to, you know, come to the truth and be like, you know, you're just not a good person, you're not somebody I can continue to have in my life,
	and stuff like that, and this kind of similar situation with my ex-wife is, it's, you know, the signs were there, and I wanted to not necessarily be wrong, In that situation.
	It's not like it's all bad.
	And there's some good qualities to her, but there's a lot more bad qualities.
	And I was trying to hold on to those good qualities.
	She was able to restrain...
	You know, this is one of the women who are sometimes called chameleons, right?
	In other words, they're able to bite back the crazy demons of their deepest nature until such time as you're locked in, right?
	And then it's like, whew! You know, like when you got a hold of crap, you know, like everyone's nightmare is on a plane, the plane's coming in for a landing, and you just got to take a dump.
	And it's like, you can't get out of your chair.
	And it's like, well... I guess I'm about to make my chair a little taller.
	And so you can hold it in, right?
	You can hold it in, but then at some point, like, sorry, you know, it just is not going to happen, right?
	And it's the same thing, like, with crazy people, they can kind of bite it down, and they can kind of chew it back for a while, but almost that, like, builds up the pressure, and then it's like damn bust all over you, right?
	Exactly, and that's kind of what had happened, where it was definitely a situation where, you know, she wore a good mask.
	And it didn't slip often.
	And I wanted to believe that she was a better person than she actually is.
	And just how things have been going since this divorce has been crawling along, I guess.
	Like I said, this has been dragging on for about...
	Seven months when it started with her being like, oh, I'm not sure about a relationship.
	I'm not sure. And every time we've had issues, I'm like, hey, we should probably get counseling.
	We should go talk to somebody.
	We should do this. We should do that.
	And she is the type of person who loves to point out a problem.
	But does not want to be a part of the solution, or does not want to have a solution.
	Yeah, no ownership, no self-responsibility, right?
	Exactly. It was just like, you're doing this, you're doing this, you're doing this, you're doing this, and I'd be like, okay...
	But, I mean, she grew up with a drug-using dad, right, and drug-using brother, so she wouldn't have had modeled any personal responsibility or ownership because it's like addicts don't take ownership.
	That's one of the reasons why they're addicts as far as I understand it.
	I mean, her mom was a part of that as well.
	I'm sorry, can you say that again? The whole family.
	I said her mom was a part of that as well.
	So it was kind of a family thing. Was a drug user as well?
	Yeah, and I'm going to go right out on a limb here and say, listen, if you're a parent and you're using drugs consistently, you're an addict because it's such an irresponsible thing to do as a parent that you'd have to be addicted to continue to do it.
	Yeah, and there was plenty of instances where they were doing drugs around the kids or they were leaving the kids with somebody else so they could go do drugs, like that type of, you know.
	It was definitely at attic level stuff that they were participating in.
	Sorry, let me just bring something up.
	It may be irrelevant, it may not be irrelevant, but I don't know if you know this web guy.
	He does some pretty interesting videos, Tommy Sotomayor.
	Yes, I actually have not listened to his stuff in a very long time, but I used to listen to a lot of his stuff on YouTube.
	Yeah, no, he's... I mean, the guy's got some balls, man.
	Like, he says stuff that if you were white, you'd simply explode, even if you had those thoughts.
	He's a very interesting guy.
	Exactly. And look, I'm just going by your Skype avatar here, that you're a fine-looking black man.
	And what's happening is, of course, if you married a black woman, there's some criticisms that Tommy Sotomayor has about black women, black wives, black moms.
	It's just floating around in my head a little bit, and I just wanted to declutter it so we could continue.
	So, did you marry...
	A black woman, do you think there's anything cultural that may be part of that sort of trauma or that escalation?
	No, I actually married a white woman.
	So, not necessarily cultural, I guess, but, I mean, cultural in the sense of the cultures that her parents choose to participate in.
	I mean, they kind of hopped around from You know, being devout Christians, to being in party phases, to I think at some point in time, if I'm to believe what my wife said, which I'm not conditioned to do at this point, but alluded to the fact that they were a part of, her mom was a witch at some point.
	Jesus, I feel like I've got a theme in the call-in shows lately.
	I just did a call-in show, and you're like, oh my gosh, he called in!
	I'm gonna hear this side.
	Wow. I don't know if I truly believe it because she does have a propensity to exaggerate things.
	So whether that is the actual truth of the matter, I don't know.
	It is kind of believable having met her mom.
	Her mom is surface level a very nice person, but I could see where… Yeah, and I'm also going to resist the urge to apologize on behalf of white people for some crazy white women standing over your bed with a knife.
	Like, I know it's not my fault, and, you know, there's some lovely, nice white people out there, out here, I hope, but I'm still sorry, no matter the race.
	Like, I'm sorry. That's a terrifying, terrifying thing to be going on with.
	I mean, I know you feel like you can't say it, but let's be honest.
	If it was a black or a Latina woman, they would have just done it, and there would have been no conversation about it.
	See, I mean, you could say that, brother, and I officially can have no opinion on this or any other subject involving black or Latina women.
	So how did things really begin to go into the—like, when did the marriage hit the Fargo woodchipper, so to speak?
	Um, so it was, yeah, like I said, about six or seven months ago, you know, we were having that talk and, you know, I was like, okay, you know, um, well, is there anything I can do?
	You know, is, is counseling something you want to try?
	I think maybe we should get counseling, you know, then there was a resistance as usual to counseling.
	And she's like, I just need to, you know, I just need, you know, this, that, the other thing, basically, like, you know, at some point, she alluded to needing space, and I was like, okay, how can we orchestrate that, you know, because we live in the same apartment?
	Now, now, you see, if the marriage is going really bad, and the woman says, I need space, if the first thing you think of is like an airlock on a spaceship, that's not a good sign.
	Not a good sign. But at this point, you were still hoping to save things, right?
	At this point, you're still saying, let's do some counseling, let's see, because you got a kid, too, right?
	And you got those responsibilities.
	Yes, and actually today is her birthday.
	Do you know if she was looking out or stepping out at all?
	So, funny you mention that, because as things continue to progress with this divorce, evidence came to light that as of right now, she is in communications with another guy.
	Which is funny, because we had actually had a really lengthy conversation about How we would not be doing that.
	I was telling her, look, even with this situation going on and that you're wanting to get this divorce or whatever, if I'm going to pursue another relationship, it's going to be well after the fact that everything is finalized, paperwork, and all that stuff.
	And even then, I feel like I need some time outside of a relationship to work on myself.
	So a relationship's not something I'm even...
	That's in my...
	My sights right now, even with everything going on, even afterwards, I need some time to work on myself.
	I have a lot of issues that I need to work on.
	And I don't want to drag my daughter into that mess, because that's a whole other sticky situation.
	Yeah, and how is your daughter doing with all of this?
	I mean, I know she's still young, and it can be a little tough to tell, but do you have a sense of how she's doing with all this mess?
	I can tell it is, you know, she knows something's going on.
	I mean, at this point in time, she does not live with me.
	My wife has moved out, staying with our daughter's godparents and stuff like that.
	And I see her on the weekends as things stand right now.
	And then coming up in these next few weeks, we're going to start rotating.
	One week on and then one week off with her.
	But I can tell. I'm so sorry.
	It's a terrible time to interrupt.
	Please finish your thought. I'll hold mine.
	No, you're fine. So, you know, coming up there, we're going to be doing all that.
	But I can tell, you know, that she can tell that there's something not right.
	You know, she doesn't see me as much as she used to.
	And when she's over here, you know, she kind of is upset at the beginning, you know, asking for mom and all that stuff, and then she'll settle in and be fine.
	But I can tell, you know, it does.
	There's a huge change going on in her life, and I can tell it's starting to bother her.
	But I know she's young, and it's not really going to, at least at this portion of it, it's not really going to hopefully make any long-term effects.
	But, you know, Putting my own personal experience with just my parents being divorced, you know, it was a burden on me.
	It's been a burden on me for my entire life.
	So that's something I was trying to avoid for her.
	Well, it's obviously tragic and a bit of a cycle, right, that you're splitting up.
	With your wife about the same time as your biological parents split up, like as far as your daughter's age goes, right?
	Like two, three years old? Yes.
	Right. Exactly.
	Now, was there a moment where like for sure the marriage was done?
	Like was that a fight or was it just to give up or how did it happen that it's, you know, like that's it?
	Um, I mean, it was pretty much all on her side because the way I look at it, you know, um, Marriage, as you know, it's a two-man crew.
	You can't do it by yourself.
	If the other person doesn't want to fix it, I can't.
	I've suggested counseling.
	If I set up counseling, she's made it clear that she's not going to go.
	So I can't go to marriage counseling by myself.
	So she, I mean, decided it wasn't worth saving, in her opinion.
	You know, it wasn't worth it. It wasn't worth the risk.
	No, no, I get that. But what I'm starting to understand, David, is was there a particular moment where the thread just broke and it's like, well, that's it.
	It's broken. I mean, not really, if I'm going to be completely honest.
	It was just kind of like a thing of, you know, well...
	I can't fix it by myself.
	So I told her, like, look, I know you're still kind of weighing your options and stuff like that, but if we're going to fix it, we're going to fix it, you know, full stop.
	If we're not going to fix it, then we're going to get this over with quickly, full stop.
	So, you know, it's just like, if you're not going to help me fix it, then I want to be done with it quickly, you know, because I didn't want it to drag out, especially with my daughter and all that stuff, and just I was like, if you don't want to be with me, that's fine. I don't want to be with somebody who doesn't want to be with me.
	Well, I mean, this is not any criticism from me to you, but when manipulative people get an ultimatum, they really freak out.
	Because the whole point of the manipulation is to kind of grind you down to nothing, right?
	To have you just obey her.
	And then if you're like, hey, you know, if, you know, because she says you're a bad guy, so she can control you, right?
	And of course, the man's logical response is, well, if I'm such a bad guy, you should not be here, right?
	but see that's not why she's saying you're a bad guy because you're not a bad guy from what i can tell right and so the reason she tells you that you're a bad guy is so she she can break your spirit and she can just make you into well you know this is this dysfunctional women 101 right is they they work like hell to break a man if they don't break him they're enraged and if they do break him they're disappointed like you can't win you can't win right because if she did end up breaking you and you're like okay honey you know just walk along obeying and doing everything
	they'll just end up having an affair because she's got no respect for you left, right?
	I mean, you can't win.
	So when you logically say, oh, man, you know, if I'm such a terrible guy, if I'm like your dad, if I'm like your ex who was physically violent and so on, even though you're the violent one, then the logical thing to do would be to leave.
	That drives her crazy because that's kind of calling her bluff, right?
	And again, she's not telling you you're a bad guy because you're a bad guy.
	She's telling you you're a bad guy so she can break any self-respect you have and gain control over you that way.
	Yeah, that makes sense. And that's been a part of this realization period I've been going through for the last probably like couple months is just starting to reflect and, you know, view things in hindsight and be like, okay, this is where, you know, where I noticed this.
	This has been a trend of your manipulation, you know, and all that other stuff.
	And yeah, hindsight is 20-20.
	I'm starting to realize all this stuff.
	I mean, a little too late.
	But it was the thing that I told her.
	Sorry to interrupt. How long ago did she move out?
	It's been about a month, roughly.
	And where has she gone to stay?
	Does she have a place to go?
	Yeah, she is staying with our daughter's godparents.
	So she lives about 20 minutes away from where I'm at, where our apartment was.
	I mean, I don't enjoy this, and I'd like to see my daughter.
	But there's a funny story behind that, too.
	I bet you only one of us will be laughing, but alright.
	Yeah, I'm laughing because it's a nervous response, I guess.
	Um, so just, I mean, not to keep diving back in the past, but it's kind of important to how I'm feeling with the situation is when we found out she was pregnant, the whole situation surrounding it was just really sketchy.
	And I've had this gut feeling for a very long time that my daughter might not be mine.
	So when you mentioned the whole infidelity thing, um, You know, that's why I kind of chuckled about that.
	Okay, we just need to pause for me to say something.
	Damn! Yeah.
	Damn! So, and the thing about my gut feelings is, you know...
	Do you have a white baby? I mean, what are we talking here?
	No, um...
	No, she's not a white baby.
	I mean, she's mixed, but it's just the situation surrounding...
	The delivery of letting me know that she was pregnant was just really sketchy and it just didn't add up and it didn't make sense.
	And then when she was saying when she had quote unquote figured out when she conceived, it didn't add up because at that period of our relationship, I mean, we weren't really having sex a lot.
	So at that point in time, I would remember if we did.
	And when she was saying it was, wasn't really making sense.
	And just based on the levels of Just lies and stuff that she's been piling on lately.
	It's just making me really question a lot of stuff up until this point, including that.
	And this is something I sat on and we actually did have a long conversation about it.
	And then she completely turned into a situation like, I'm the piece of shit for, you know, having feelings based on her actions.
	Like, you know, how dare you question the paternity that you mean that kind of stuff?
	Exactly. How do you question that?
	I've never cheated on you.
	How could you even think that?
	I was like, well, based on how you were acting throughout the entire pregnancy, how you had told me you were pregnant, and all that stuff, and then even post-pregnancy, after we had her, it was just like, like I said, it just felt like you got what you wanted, and I'm no longer relevant, and you just treated me like shit, you know?
	Before, during, and after.
	Well, and the lack of sexual activity during the time that you claimed, like, between you guys, right?
	Yeah. Yeah, that was definitely something she was manipulative with.
	It's like the worst...
	It's one of the worst things that can happen, and I'm...
	You know...
	Well, do you have any confirmation, or is it still...
	I mean...
	What's happened with that?
	I... Like I said, with my gut feelings, I've seldom been wrong in my life with them.
	So I think I've been kind of subconsciously putting off knowing.
	Because, I mean, just to be frank with you, if she's not my daughter, I really don't know what I'm going to do.
	Like, I feel like I got nothing else.
	Oh, listen, that's one of the worst things that you'd rather have, I'm sure, a dangerous disease diagnosis than find this out.
	It's like one of the most God-forsaken things that can happen to a family, that can happen to a man, and I'm incredibly sorry for this even being in your head.
	I mean, that's monstrous.
	Yeah, this is kind of, you know, my daughter's the only thing really getting me through this at this point, so, you know, if it's all for naught, then...
	It's not going to be a good situation.
	Are there any physical traits or any behavioral traits that you think might lead you somewhere other than you as the father?
	Like I said, I'm just kind of relying off a gut feeling, but I haven't been wrong before.
	And that's something that's...
	It's not like... I feel bad about this situation and it just turns out I was just being anxious about it.
	I'm not being facetious when I say I have not been wrong about a gut feeling and that's what terrifies me the most about having this feeling about the situation because I got a pretty solid track record when it comes to situations in my life, situations with friends, with people.
	I'm batting a thousand at this point.
	I've been putting it off.
	I just need to do it at this point, especially with how she's been acting lately.
	It's just like... And what can you do about that?
	Can you officially get a test?
	Yeah, I mean, I can...
	Like right now, honestly, my best bet would probably just get one, you know, off of...
	Off online.
	Because the official ones that would hold up in like a court, they're anywhere from like $300 to $500.
	And that's something I cannot afford right now.
	Yeah. So, I'm just going to have to get something low-budget.
	Let me tell you this, man.
	If you want me to pay for it, I'll pay for it.
	If you want the money, you just tell me, man.
	I'm here for you.
	If this will help you, if this will help resolve things, if this will give you leverage in court, just ask.
	I'll pay. Don't even think twice.
	I can't let you do that, man.
	I can't let you do that. No, you can.
	You may choose not to, but I'm just telling you the offer is right here and you absolutely can.
	Whether you want to or not, it's up to you, but I'm just, you know, don't have to decide right now, but if you want to, just let me know.
	Listen, I'm here for you and this is a hugely important issue and...
	If your wife or soon-to-be ex is being manipulative and difficult and this helps you with leverage and so on, you know, please don't let $300 to $500 stand in your way if there's someone willing to help, and I am.
	So I just want to put that out there.
	You can let me know at some point, but just be aware.
	I'll write the check.
	I'll sort it out for you. Okay.
	Yeah, we can talk about that offline.
	Yeah, talk about it later, and I just want to mention that.
	Okay. So what's she doing?
	Go ahead. Oh, I was just saying, tying into that, so with the kind of the suspected infidelity, I mean, there's confirmation to a point that doesn't really necessarily prove anything, but it's suspicious enough.
	Just like, you know, when it actually started being like, okay, well, this is what we're doing, you know, we're getting divorced now and stuff like that, she just started being, you know...
	I don't know.
	Not necessarily suspicious.
	Just doing more things that are out of character for her normally.
	She's always been somebody who's been wrapped up in her phone.
	That's been a big point of conflict for us.
	We'd go on dates.
	Especially when we were in California and I didn't have a lot of time to actually do something that wasn't at the house.
	When we would go down to Palm Springs or San Diego and stuff like that.
	She'd constantly be on her phone.
	I'm just like, look, we don't get the opportunity to do this stuff very often.
	You can put down your phone for a minute because I know you're on your phone all day.
	She's always been super wrapped up in her phone.
	Do you know what she's doing on the phone?
	As far as I know, on social media.
	Twitter, Facebook, when she had it.
	Instagram. Just always on some sort of social media.
	Did you ever get a look at her phone?
	I've never been that person, and I will never be that person.
	I'm the type of person that will give somebody the rope to hang themselves with.
	I'll trust you until I have a reason not to.
	So I've never been that person.
	I'm 100% about transparency.
	No, no, listen, I get all of that.
	I'm just curious.
	You may not be that kind of person.
	You might just pick up her phone because it's somewhere you need to be and there's a notification.
	It doesn't have to be like in the old days when you used to have answering machines that played loudly in the room, you didn't have to be the kind of person who'd figure out her answering machines.
	Maybe it would just happen. So you can get information without being that guy.
	I never went out of my way to look at her phone, but with the recent situation, I happened to be walking by her phone and I saw something on it that was like, okay, that's interesting.
	There was a few contacts that I didn't recognize in her phone, one of which actually ended up being the guy that she's talking to now.
	Actually, I need to correct the statement on the record.
	It is confirmed because one of her friends confirmed it, that that was a situation going on.
	And she had been going out, which wasn't anything too weird because I'd always been encouraging her to go out, do stuff, take a break from being around her daughter all day and stuff like that.
	So she was going out more, but then she was not coming home.
	And like, oh, hey, I'm going to stay the night at this friend's place.
	And I was just like...
	Weird. And even my mom, when I talked to her, she was like, I don't know if that's just a generational thing.
	No, that's weird. Married women should not be having sleepovers.
	Girlfriends should not be having sleepovers.
	Sleepovers end at around the age of 13.
	Exactly. And I understand if you go out and you have too much of a good time and you can't make it back, That's different.
	But then again, you're a parent, and when I go out, I'm a Marine.
	Go home and have a good time with your husband, for God's sakes.
	Yeah, I go hard.
	I'm not sitting there...
	I will go hard when I go out.
	I drink a lot and stuff like that.
	But I make it a point to always make it back, regardless.
	So I've never once had to stay over at somebody's house Um, because I got, you know, too messed up or whatever.
	Um, so that's what I talked it up to at the beginning, but you know, it was just weird, but it's just like, you know, what am, what am I going to do about it?
	You know? Um, and then find out through, you know, a friend of mine had taken some screenshots of her Twitter and noticed that a guy was like, you know, tweeting at her, you know, some stuff.
	And it was just like really sketchy.
	And I called her out for her.
	We got into a fight, but she was just like, Making a point of like, oh, well, we're not together, so it doesn't matter.
	I was like, legally, we're still married, sweetheart, so it doesn't matter that, in your opinion, the relationship is over, but we're still married.
	It's not high school.
	This isn't boyfriend-girlfriend.
	You can just break up and then it's done.
	You signed a paper.
	It's a little bit bigger than that.
	And so after that point, you know, finding out about it and then finding out how long it was going on, you know, I kind of cut her off from my stuff.
	I told her that she... I'm sorry if I missed this, but how long had it been going on?
	Apparently, I think like a...
	At the time I found out about it, I think like maybe a month.
	Yeah. From the sounds of it, from what the mutual friend had confirmed.
	Because she ran off and told her friends that, you know, that I had found out and blew up on her about it.
	And then she had also lied to her friends and told her that this was some mutual decision that we had come up with.
	And that we were both participating, which was never the case.
	And then, well it's funny because she's actually been lying to each of her friends on different levels based on who they know.
	Because another friend, when I asked her about the situation, wanted to flip the script on me and start saying a bunch of stuff like that she had heard that I had slept with a mutual friend of ours, which is demonstrably false, or had gone out with, which is also false, but she couldn't get her story straight.
	And I know this friend does not know her other friends who she would be implicating in this.
	Because those friends would not do that, you know, because they're friends with my wife.
	We've been chatting for an hour and a half and joined the conversation, but I just really do want to make sure that we get to how I can best help you.
	How do you think I can best help you at this point?
	Yeah, sorry for rambling on so much.
	No, no, no, it's totally fine. Listen, I'm happy to hear.
	Honestly, this is not a chore.
	This is what I live for.
	But I just really want to make sure that we get to...
	Yeah, no, no, I get it.
	So, yeah, I guess, like I said earlier, just with maintaining the high road, because it's just been really difficult, you know, I'm trying to still support her, take care of her.
	She, you know, had lost her job that she had had, like, a really good setup, and she's just now getting another job, and I'm having, you know, and I've been spotting her on stuff financially, but, you know, the other day I'd end up having a really long conversation slash argument With her about, you know, something dumb.
	My daughter coming to see me tomorrow, or yesterday.
	And it just turned into this whole big ordeal.
	And even after all that, I gave her some money for gas because she didn't have any gas to make it through the weekend into her job on Monday.
	And it's like, after all that, she couldn't even say thank you.
	And it's just like, I'm just getting so worn out from, you know, taking the high road, being nice, being civil, you know, trying to help her out.
	But it's like, just, I don't know how to justify I don't know how to justify not doing it.
	I can't justify to myself.
	I can't justify cutting her off completely.
	I can't justify not supporting her.
	I can't justify that to myself.
	It's sick and twisted because I know I'm doing this stuff for somebody who doesn't care about me or my well-being or could not be bothered about how I'm doing, what I'm doing, has not offered to help me Pay her bills or pay for the car that she has or any of that stuff.
	She hasn't gone out of her way to do that.
	And I even confirmed that she had no intentions of paying me back for any of that stuff.
	So it's just like how?
	I don't know. I don't know how to do that.
	I don't know how to kind of put that nail in the coffin and just be done with it altogether.
	Because another worry I have is Is that going to come back and bite me in the ass?
	If you keep giving her resources, then she gets a lifestyle to which she has become accustomed, right?
	And is she going to be able to then ding you legally for all that stuff, saying, listen, this is what he's been doing, so he should continue?
	That and also not doing it.
	Like, is that going to bite me in the ass, legally speaking?
	Okay, listen, so... You know, I mean, obviously I'm no lawyer, and so I don't know the answer to that from a legal standpoint, and you should talk to a lawyer about that, which I know is a hell of a thing to do, but that's...
	So I can only tell you what my opinions are in terms of managing this kind of personality structure, because...
	And, you know, whether...
	I mean, if your daughter's not your daughter, let's talk about that another time, if you find that out.
	But assuming at the moment that you're going to continue to co-parent with this woman, the question is, how do you set boundaries with crazy people?
	Well, crazy people or people without boundaries, narcissistic people, dysfunctional people, whatever.
	Let's just call them crazy people, although it's not crazy because it's very calculated.
	But, you know, they're not going to be nice to you because they have any sense of honor or any sense of altruism or reciprocal virtue.
	They're not going to do it for that reason at all in any way, shape, or form.
	And she's not going to appreciate your niceness.
	She's going to view it as a weakness she can exploit.
	I mean, again, you know her better than I do, obviously, so please tell me where I go astray.
	But this is what I would see, or this is what I am saying, of course, from the outside.
	So then the question is, how do you get reasonable behavior from crazy people?
	Well, unfortunately, if people won't do it out of virtue and respect, they'll have to do it out of consequences, right?
	You just have to do it, I wouldn't say fear necessarily, because you obviously don't want to threaten her, but just consequences, right?
	If you behave badly, I will make your life more difficult, right?
	That's the only way that you can get better behavior out of nasty people.
	They don't Oh, did I just lose you?
	Oh, yeah. Am I back?
	Yeah, yeah. So I was just saying that they're kind of like big spreadsheets, right?
	They're big calculation machines.
	And all they do is they're constantly looking at everything around them and they're saying, will this benefit me more or will this benefit me more?
	So they'll be nice if it will benefit them.
	And like she was nicer before you got married and then she was nicer still before you had a kid and all that.
	And so they just – all they're doing is calculating stuff, right?
	Benefit to me, non-benefit to me.
	And if niceness benefits you, then they will manipulate you into being nice or threaten you into being nice or they'll rely on it without having to do anything, right?
	Right. And so the question is, the only way to get more reasonable behavior from unreasonable people is to be part of the calculation that says, okay, if I'm not more reasonable to this guy, he's going to make my life more difficult.
	And that's the only way you will ever get, in my experience and opinion, you will ever get even remotely positive behavior from dysfunctional people.
	You have to be difficult.
	You have to be – you have to train them kind of like a dog, right?
	Insofar as, you know, if the dog does well, the dog gets a treat.
	And if the dog does badly, the dog gets a rolled-up newspaper.
	I mean I don't know if that's how you train dogs.
	It probably isn't.
	But you kind of understand what I'm talking about.
	Positive – like a stick and a carrot.
	And you understand this.
	You're an army guy, right?
	So you know how this kind of stuff works, right?
	And so you have to throw – yeah, you have to throw aside questions of honor and niceness and helpfulness and loving.
	And we were together and we have a baby together.
	That's all sentimental shit that's going to just have you disemboweled by this kind of person.
	You have to put all of that stuff aside.
	You have to save it for somebody who's worthy of it in the future.
	And you just have to be very, very strict.
	And you have to be very firm with her.
	Because she's not, again, she's not going to respond to honor or virtue or kindness or decency with anything other than, woohoo, free stuff, right?
	And so if you want reasonable behavior, you have to train her like a wild animal into treating you better.
	And that means positive rewards for good behavior and negative rewards for bad behavior.
	And negative reports, I'm not talking yelling or punishing or anything like that.
	But if you're nice, okay, great.
	I'll give you some gas money. If you're not nice, hey, no gas money.
	And you'll have to deal with this temper and this anger because she's going to try and smash the calculation to get what she wants.
	Because if you're changing your behavior...
	And she's, she's act like she's, why has she divorced you?
	She's divorced you because she's certain she can get your stuff anyway.
	She's certain that she can get you to support her anyway, right?
	And so if you end up fighting her on this, and I don't mean fighting her like yelling at her, I mean just fighting her like, no, no, listen, you divorced me.
	I am not going to give you money, right?
	You know, I set aside this money for us to go to couples counseling.
	And if you didn't want to go to couples counseling and you divorced me, you don't get the money.
	Like, you don't get a penny until a court tells me I have to, and if you try and take me to court, I'm going to fight it tooth and nail, right?
	Because that's the only way to get reasonable behavior is consequences.
	You know, people who won't deal with you decently based upon principles of morality and honor, you just have to train them.
	Like, I just put this tweet out, you know, this whole Justin Trudeau blackface thing, right?
	And people are like, oh, should we forgive him?
	No, of course not, because the left would never forgive you.
	If Donald Trump had done blackface, do you think they'd be like, oh, well, a day or two of news cycle, but just let it go and move on?
	No, they'd be hanging on to it like a pit bull on a newborn, right?
	Exactly. Yeah, so no, you have to punish them with the consequences of their own principles, otherwise they'll just view it as a weakness and continue to exploit it.
	So again, I'm not talking meanness or yelling or name-calling or anything like that, but it's like just firmness.
	Just firmness, like no. No, listen, you want gas money?
	You divorced me. You don't get gas money from me.
	If you're being difficult with me seeing my daughter, then I'm going to get a lawyer and take you to court.
	It's sad, but this is the way that a lot of people in life just have to be dealt with if you have to deal with them.
	I mean, if it was just a girlfriend, I'd say, you know, get out or...
	Even if it was a wife, I'd just say, you know, dust your hands and walk off.
	But depending on what happens in the future with your daughter, this is a possible co-parenting situation for the next 20 years or whatever.
	So you're going to have to just train her to treat you in a reasonable manner.
	And that's never going to be by being nice to her.
	That's never going to be by appealing to her better nature.
	She doesn't have one. And I'm sorry to say, but this is just who she is.
	And you can't go back and reparent her.
	You can't go back and give her a different personality structure.
	Just about the most immovable thing.
	In the universe is the opinion of a leftist and the personality of a messed up person.
	Like, you can't change it. Especially because she doesn't want to change it.
	In fact, she glorifies in a sense because she blames everyone else for everything that goes wrong.
	So you just have to be really, really firm.
	You know, really, really firm.
	I once had a woman threaten to take me for half of what I had for a variety of reasons I won't get into here.
	And I was just like, that is absolutely not going to happen.
	That is not going to happen.
	You know, I came from a poor family.
	I scrabbled to make something of myself.
	You try and take that away.
	I'm going to fight you tooth and nail to the last penny that I have, and then you'll get half of one penny.
	And, you know, like, you just got to...
	I could just sit there and say, but, you know, we loved each other, and I'm happy to pay a month or two rent when I move out and all of that.
	But, you know, because that's just weakness to some people.
	Like, you just... The only thing they respect is a show of strength.
	It's like the dogs when they run into each other in the park.
	There's a dominant dog and there's a submissive dog.
	It's not about virtue or negotiation.
	It's just about strength.
	You kind of have to steel yourself to recognize that you're now in a fight.
	You're not in a relationship.
	You're not in a marriage.
	You're in a war. And in a war, do you go over and shake the hands of your opponent and reason with them?
	Well, of course not, because they'll just view that as a weakness.
	They'll take you prisoner or they'll shoot you in the head, right?
	And so you're in a war now, and now it's not a war that involves any kind of physical aggression or any kind of verbal abuse, but it is a war.
	And so you have to switch from husband to soldier and to recognize that this is a battle.
	And if you're going to have any kind of chance of reasonable behavior on a consistent basis, then you have to view it as a battle.
	And you don't fund your enemy and you don't give your enemy gas money if their tank runs out.
	I mean, it's like, again, I'm using this analogy again.
	I just want to reinforce there's no violence or aggression or name-calling or verbal abuse here.
	But this is a battle now.
	And she's shown who she is.
	And if you're going to have any reasonable chance of reasonable behavior, it just has to be you make it more difficult for her to be unreasonable.
	And if you make it more difficult for her to be unreasonable, By golly, she'll find reason.
	Yeah, I understand.
	You kind of give me similar advice to what some of my other friends are saying, especially my sister.
	Something I struggle with with that is I've done it.
	Wait, done what? I told her if she's going to be difficult, I'm going to be difficult as well.
	And actually done that, been difficult when she's being difficult.
	It's like, but I'm the only one who feels bad about it, you know, at the end of the day.
	And I just, and that's what sucks.
	That's what, you know, it's like, that's what I mean by it's hard to do that, you know, because I feel bad.
	And I know I shouldn't, but I can't help it.
	No, listen, I, you know, that makes you a good guy.
	Like, nobody wants to enjoy doing this.
	Nobody wants to feel good about it.
	That would be kind of sadistic, right?
	Yeah. But you have to make it, like the only reason that this is a particular import is because of your daughter, right?
	Again, if you didn't have a kid, well, maybe you don't, but if you didn't have a kid, then none of this would be particularly relevant because you'd be like, oh yeah, this is my start of marriage and you know, blah, blah, blah, right?
	She's got a job, so you don't need to give her alimony forever and so on, right?
	So the only reason that this is important is because of your daughter.
	Now, Feeling bad and being...
	Because the moment you feel bad and the moment you show that you feel bad, you're just going to be manipulated and controlled, right?
	So what is best for your daughter, right?
	So is you feeling bad good for your daughter?
	And the answer is, well, no.
	Right? So the question is, what is the leverage that you can use to manage your feelings, right?
	So if there had been a firefight when you were in the military...
	Then, so what, right?
	If you'd had a firefight when you were in the military, it would have been scary, but you would have mastered your fear, right?
	I don't mean so what, like who cares, but it would be like, okay, it's still a job I have to do, right?
	If some pilot, as we talked about at the beginning, had been shot down, right, and you've been trained, you would have gone out to try and help that pilot, right?
	That's the job, right? And you would have been scared, of course, right?
	But assuming it wasn't the suicide mission that you mentioned earlier, you'd manage your fear and you'd go and do it anyway.
	Is that fair to say? Yeah.
	No, that is fair to say.
	Because you have a mission. Exactly.
	Now, you have a mission. You have a mission, which is what's best for your daughter.
	Now, what's best for your daughter is that you are not manipulated by your ex-wife.
	That's what's best for your daughter.
	And so, if you have a larger mission, then you have a motive to manage your emotions, right?
	Like, again, if you had a mission in the military, you would manage your emotions and you'd say, well, I'm scared, but feel the fear and do it anyway, right?
	That's what you need courage for.
	If you don't have any fear, you don't need any courage, right?
	Exactly. Right. Sorry, we're just getting a couple of hiccups here.
	So if you have a motive, then you can manage feeling bad and say, yeah, I feel bad, but I have to do it anyway.
	In the same way, if you had something you had to do in the military, you'd say, yeah, I feel scared, but I got to do it anyway, right?
	Yeah, no, when you put it like that, it makes sense.
	I guess that's kind of the key to it that I was missing was the why behind it.
	Yeah, yeah. And yeah, if I prioritize, you know, because yeah, you are right.
	I mean, it's not good for me, you know, in the long term.
	It's not good for our daughter in the long term as well.
	Just like if it was the same, you know, if it was reverse where I was being abusive or manipulative, it wouldn't be good for her, you know.
	Well, listen, your daughter's going to have a hell of a ride because she's got that kind of mom.
	And so you need to be in your daughter's life.
	Again, assuming that she's your daughter.
	But given all these assumptions, you need to be in your daughter's life.
	And if you end up being bullied and controlled, then your ex is going to use this ex constantly as a way of bullying you and controlling you.
	Your daughter needs you in her life because she's got this kind of mom and you're not this kind of person.
	Right.
	So there's that motive.
	The other thing, too, is you sure as hell don't want down the road to end up with another woman like this.
	And so you need to learn how to manage these kinds of people because that way, should you date someone in the future, your big concern and fear, she's going to end up turning out like the mother of your child.
	Right.
	And so if you stand up to this kind of person and you know how to handle and manage them, which is not an easy thing to do.
	I mean, I'm not saying it's easy, right?
	But what'll happen is when you meet someone new and if they show any kind of nuttiness and you know how to be firm with them, then they'll blow up right then and there and you can just dump the relationship.
	You can just end it, right? Because you won't need to invest a whole lot of time to find out if they're crazy or not.
	No, that makes sense.
	Yeah, and that's something I told her too is, you know, About kind of calling her out for, you know, how her behavior is.
	And then as far as it is concerning, our daughter as well.
	It's kind of the shitty thing she's been doing with our daughter.
	It's just like when, you know, she gets older and she is able to, you know, make some more decisions for herself, you know, like who she wants to stay with long term.
	Yeah. And she wants to get away from you, I'm not gonna help you out.
	Like, I won't be in your corner.
	I'm not going to, you know, try to...
	Work out a situation where she, you know, communicates with you and anything like that.
	I was like, I'm not going to help you out at all.
	As a matter of fact, I'm going to do quite the contrary.
	Like, if she makes that decision, I will support her 100%.
	Like, you will get nothing from me.
	Right. Okay, let's do this, right?
	So, I think I've given you, hopefully, the useful perspective.
	But give me one tiny speech, if you don't mind, man, which is, what do you want to say?
	because listen there'll be thousands or tens of thousands of guys out there or women too who are in a relationship with a pretty sketchy and questionable person and there are other people who know like they know someone who's like this maybe it's a brother or cousin sister maybe it's a friend or whatever what do you want to say to people who are well you know i don't want to interfere and he says he loves her and so on what do you want to say to those people about what you wish had happened with you
	i would say uh from both perspectives, from a person who...
	Is in that situation, who is dealing with that, trust your gut.
	You know, our body has mechanisms built in to defend us from stuff.
	So if your gut is telling you there's something wrong, lean into that.
	Trust your gut and the people who are advising you.
	I know it's uncomfortable.
	Nobody wants to be wrong about the person that they've, you know, or whatever.
	But, you know, sometimes there's a reason for it, which is your own survival, whether that's mentally, physically, or emotionally.
	And for people who are on the other side who know somebody who's in that situation and is scared to say something, look, if you care about that, like, you know, you...
	I understand being afraid of hurting somebody's feelings, but sometimes it's for the best.
	Sometimes you need to say something, you know?
	Yeah. Because the long-term effects are going to be worse than an uncomfortable conversation.
	Having a five-minute conversation about that person could potentially save their life in one way or shape.
	Because you don't know what the situation is they're going through, how detrimental the relationship is to them.
	It could push them to the edge, and they could either kill themselves or get killed by somebody else.
	Not to be too melodramatic about the situation, but there's always possibilities.
	But just do it.
	Just have the conversation because if you really love and care about somebody, a friend, family member, whatever, you need to be looking out for them even when they're being self-destructive.
	So that would be my advice too.
	Well said. Well, listen, I really appreciate your time and the call today.
	I'm so glad that you reached out.
	And again, I'm so, so sorry that you're in this kind of situation.
	Will you keep me posted?
	And again, don't feel shy about taking me up on my offer.
	I'm obviously very serious about it, and I'm very happy to help.
	But I know it's a pride thing, and I understand that.
	But this is not meant in any denigrating way.
	But will you keep me posted about what's going on?
	Absolutely, man. I really appreciate you taking the time out to talk to me.
	And was it useful to you?
	Was it helpful to chat? Yes, it was actually, you know, really useful and nice to get a kind of a fresh new perspective from, you know, kind of an outside view, the eagle-eyed view of the situation.
	So, no, I really appreciate it.
	It was very helpful. Good.
	All right. Well, keep me posted and thanks again for the chat today, man.
	No problem. You take it easy. I appreciate you, man.
	Bye. Well, thank you so much for enjoying this latest Free Domain show on philosophy.
	And I'm going to be frank and ask you for your help, your support, your encouragement, and your resources.
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