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July 20, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:30:07

BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER

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	I am 19 years old and I just got out of a very brief but intense relationship with an almost 30-year-old divorcee who has two children.
	He was suffering from many mental problems.
	He was an alcoholic, drug addict, and about to get kicked out of the Navy.
	We initially started out with a very intense relationship that he very quickly ended, which ended in disillusionment, anxiety, and a pregnancy scare.
	I am a very marriage-minded woman, and this incident has left me questioning my values.
	What can I do to find myself a morally good husband?
	That's from Kirsten. Is it Kirsten or Kirsten?
	It's Kirsten.
	Kirsten? Yeah.
	Did I get that right? Yeah, you did.
	Marriage-minded woman!
	Kirsten, this is how you describe yourself.
	Yes, sir. I'm not sure that you are, in fact, if I can disagree with you from the very, very beginning.
	Um, I think that...
	Come on, this guy was not marriage material, right?
	No, no, it was quite a fall from grace.
	Huh? It was quite a fall from grace.
	No, it wasn't. No, don't elevate this like it was some true passionate love that just somehow mysteriously went wrong.
	This guy had mauga, bauga, bauga, right?
	This guy had like red flags and dangerous signs and here be quicksand and there be dragons all over him.
	Don't, you can't, I'm not saying you are, but I just don't want to waste any time on this conversation, which I'm really looking forward to.
	I don't want to waste any time with you saying things mysteriously went wrong.
	No, no, I'm going to take full responsibility for what I did.
	Okay, got it.
	Like, I accept what I did was wrong, and I accept that I had quite a, I stepped into a sticky situation from the jump.
	You know what I'm saying? Like, I accept it, and I know that, and I'm trying to move on from it.
	Okay, so what was attractive about this guy?
	Oh my gosh. You know what?
	From the...
	Jeez, I don't know.
	I have no clue. Honestly, I feel like...
	You put yourself in this kind of risk.
	Alcoholic, drug addict, about to get kicked out of the Navy.
	I didn't know all of you. And you're like, well, I don't know what I found attractive about him at all.
	Okay, so listen, I didn't know all of his problems from the jump.
	You didn't know that he had mental problems?
	No, I had to learn this until he was crying on his bedroom floor calling me up that he was, like, going to end it all.
	When he was talking about end it all, you mean the relationship or his life?
	No, his life. And are you saying that there was no indication of instability before that phone call?
	No, no, no, no.
	I'll dig until I find it, so you might as well fess up now.
	Alright, well, when I met him, he sort of just was like, seemed like a real rational guy.
	You know, like, woo me over and being like, you know, this is who I am.
	I'm, you know, I love what I do for work.
	I'm a good guy, blah, blah, blah.
	You know, I've seen it all.
	I'm like, cool.
	I think what was attractive to me was like the fact that he had so much life experience.
	Not necessarily good life experience, but to me.
	No, listen, Kirsten, I am not buying any of this.
	I have never met a 19 year old woman who said I was really attracted to his life experience.
	Come on.
	Tell me what made you tingle.
	If you can't tell me what made you tingle, how on earth are you going to avoid this quicksand tingle in the future?
	What was it that made him like, oh yeah, I'm jumping his bones, I'm all over that, right?
	He seemed really tough and manly.
	Okay, tough and manly.
	Okay. Okay, I'm not sure what your definition of masculinity is, but mine doesn't involve lying on the floor sobbing and wanting to end it all, but all right, he seemed manly.
	In the wrong way. When I first met him, he seemed like a tough, manly guy.
	He presented himself as a tough, manly guy.
	Yeah, because you know who has a lot of life experience?
	Don Rickles. Who is like, what, 90,000 years old or something like that now, right?
	Methuselah, 850 years old, big hit with the 19-year-olds because of his excess of life experience.
	I, um... Honestly, Steph, to be honest with you, this experience is something that I never want to experience again.
	I know, and I'm trying to help you with that.
	But if you don't know what you're in there, how are you going to know what to avoid?
	So he was manly. Was he a dominant guy?
	Was he a take charge kind of guy?
	Was he like, I'll take the menus and I'll order for her?
	What was it that made you think he was manly and, I assume, commanding or whatever it was?
	He approached me.
	Initially, he seemed very dominant.
	He was older, and I guess the fact that he was older to me seemed like instinctively or on a psychological level that he could have been a good provider since he was older.
	And I don't know why, but for a while, I'm going to have to confess that for a while in my life, I have found myself attracted to older guys.
	So I think he sort of as a time fit all my criteria, as in, you know, he seemed stable to begin with.
	He seemed dominant. He seemed like a guy who could provide.
	He seemed like a guy who knew a lot about the world.
	All right. So, boy, if only...
	You are not the first... Woman on the planet, Kirsten, to be very attracted to a dominant guy to pretend it's something else and to want his resources where it then turns out to be a complete nightmare.
	Are you listening, Europe? Because I hope you are.
	So you are not alone in this particular habit.
	So it's not age because you didn't date a rich grandfather, right?
	No, sir. Right.
	So how handsome was he?
	Okay, listen, he wasn't very handsome, but he's a spitting image of my father.
	Oh, I'm sure that's just a complete coincidence, wouldn't you say?
	Did he have any...
	Sorry, you mean physically he looks like your dad?
	Exactly, yeah. And psychologically, how close was he to your father?
	Oh gosh, like carbon copy.
	When did you figure that out?
	I figured that out when the relationship was over.
	Over? Yeah.
	Like I said, it was real brief.
	How brief? Like, not even two weeks, but it was brief and it was intense.
	You say this intense thing, and I never quite understand this.
	I mean, insanity is intense.
	You know what else is intense? Arsenic.
	Very, very intense experience.
	Jumping out of an airplane onto a field full of spikes and staplers.
	Very, very intense.
	Setting yourself on fire.
	Very intense. You keep using this word intense.
	I don't know what it means.
	Yes, sir. I would say that it was the type of relationship where both of us bet it all in in the first hand.
	Something that... Bet all in in the first hand.
	No, I heard the sentence. It's just I don't know what that means.
	Like, went too fast too soon.
	It was like... I don't know how to explain it.
	It was like a... Okay.
	How long...
	After meeting him, how long was it before you had sex?
	A week. A week.
	A week, alright. And what does that mean, all in?
	Like, you're planning your lives together, you're going to get married, you're going to move in?
	There was a discussion about marriage.
	Like, we talked about marriage.
	Was that before the weekend that you had sex?
	And I think it was sooner than that, but let's go with the week.
	Before the weekend that you had sex, or after that?
	It was before...
	So before you even had sex, and before you've known each other even for a week, you're having conversations about getting married.
	Yes. So you really got played, right?
	Yes. I got played like a fiddle.
	You got played like a fiddle. Yeah.
	Yeah. I mean, he knew you were marriage-minded, and he's like, yeah, we can get married.
	Let's bang for a while.
	And then, oh, I'm insane, right?
	I mean, this is not how you want things to go, obviously, ever again in the future, right?
	Yes, sir, definitely.
	Definitely not that way.
	Do you have people in your life, Kristen, who...
	We're warning you away from this quicksand of rampant and confusing testosterone vortex.
	Dude. Um...
	I would say...
	Did you try and fly solo?
	I can handle this on my own.
	Hey, I'm 19! Yes, sir.
	My mother. What did your mother say?
	She said, um...
	You don't know him.
	After she met him...
	Okay, so initially when I met him and I went out with him, she said, you know, you don't know him from Jack Diddley.
	You don't know what he's up to.
	You don't know what his deal is.
	He could murder you and nobody would know.
	He could be crazy.
	She was telling me that.
	And then at one point, my mom met him.
	And when my mom met him, She was on my side, as in the family, like, you know, oh, this guy's good.
	He seems like a good-hearted person.
	He seems like a decent individual.
	Is your mother still together with your father?
	Yes, however, their relationship is not very good.
	It's on the rocks. Yeah, I get that.
	I mean, if this guy's like your dad, you kind of don't need to tell me that, but I don't mind that you did.
	So your mother, in terms of judging men, not good, right?
	Yes, sir. Not very good.
	Not very good. All right. I drive blindfolded, but I'd love to tease you.
	Right. Right. Right.
	So at one point, my mother was saying, she was on my side of, as in like, oh, he's real good.
	Like, you know, and I was telling my mom, I'm like, I plan on going and spending the weekend with him.
	He's going to have his colleagues over.
	And so my mom was on my side, as in convincing my dad to let me go out with this guy.
	And so she ended up convincing my dad.
	And my dad's like, okay, yeah, like, what are you getting yourself into, Kirsten?
	Like, Blah, blah, blah.
	And I'm like, oh, you know, I'm just going to spend the weekend with him.
	And at one point, I have to mention this because I do believe it's a crucial piece of the puzzle.
	At one point, he invited over his shipmates, his colleagues.
	And we were having a bonfire, and he stepped away to go...
	Call somebody in the house to answer the door or something for more of his shipmates.
	And we were in the backyard, and I was in the backyard with one of his colleagues, and this guy was 26, and he has two kids, and he's married.
	And he told me, he said, I just met you, I don't know you, but I just want to tell you, I feel like you might be going down the wrong path with him.
	He's got a problem with opioids, he's got a problem with alcohol, and I don't want you getting in a sticky situation, so you might want to think about your relationship.
	And I said, okay, and I ignored this guy.
	Okay, hang on, hang on. First of all, that guy should get a medal.
	And this is the kind of stuff which we should all be doing.
	Everyone should be doing this, who knows stuff, like prevent this kind of heartbreak from happening, right?
	Yes. Why did you ignore this guy?
	Well, initially after...
	This guy told me about the guy I was with.
	I don't know if I should use this name or make a fake one, but can I say like Bob or something?
	Okay. He told me about Bob.
	He said like, you know, Bob's no good.
	And at this point in time, we had already slept together.
	So I felt like, oh shit, I'm already like knee deep.
	I feel like I'm not one to sleep around, honestly.
	So I felt like...
	I don't know. I felt like in a sense...
	Sorry to interrupt you.
	I'm just...
	Bookmark that thought.
	I'm just...
	You slept with this guy within a week of knowing him, but you're not one to sleep around?
	I don't quite follow. I've never done anything like that previously.
	Yeah. I feel like this guy wooed me over real well.
	Do you know what I mean? So well that I felt like I just jumped in his bed.
	That's so rational, right?
	No, but what I was saying was...
	This is why you don't jump in someone's bed within a week of knowing them, right?
	I know, I know. You know that, right?
	Yes. So then you say, well, I'm not someone who...
	It's too quick to sleep with someone.
	It's like, that's not what you just told me.
	It's contradictory.
	No, it's just you...
	You did the wrong thing.
	I did. You know this about women, even more so than men, right?
	Whatever you throw your vagina at, your heart will follow.
	Women bond with men.
	But whatever you throw your vagina at, your heart is going to follow, right?
	Yes, sir. That's true.
	And so when you sleep with a guy...
	In your heart, you're married.
	Now, you can get divorced, which is kind of this intensity thing, right?
	But it's like you're trying to cram a whole dating, courtship, marriage thing into like four days, five days, whatever it is, right?
	And so it's very intense.
	And I'm telling you, Kirsten, you can't do this much at all before your heart can no longer love.
	Because it's a vulnerable position to be in.
	It's open-hearted. It's generous.
	I mean, the man's lying on top of you or whatever the hell's going on.
	It's a very vulnerable position. It requires a lot of trust.
	It's very dependent. I mean, and you're in a very vulnerable position.
	It requires a lot of trust.
	You know this, and women as a whole know this, so they seem to be forgetting it.
	You've got to stop setting off the V-bomb early on in the relationship because you bond.
	It becomes very intense, and every time you get your heart broken in this kind of way, It's like that line in the U2 song, you can sew it up, but you still see the tear.
	I mean, you can only swing the penis bat in your china shop of future love for so long before everything comes crashing down, right?
	Right, yeah. And I totally ignored all of these things.
	Red flags over and over again.
	Okay, why? Why?
	This is the question. Why?
	And why the hell do you want to become a stepmom?
	What are you, auditioning for a Disney movie, for God's sakes?
	Why on earth would you want to become...
	Why would you want to become a stepmom?
	You want to fatten them up and cook them?
	I mean, what kind of... There's a reason why stepmoms are always these...
	Anyway, why?
	I mean, the facts you knew about the guy.
	Okay, why did he get divorced?
	He said that he got divorced because while he was deployed, his wife cheated on him.
	Oh! So is he playing the victim in his...
	I was a straight-up shooter and she just...
	I mean, why...
	What does that mean? Does that mean he chose a woman who was going to sleep around on him?
	Is he really, really bad at judging people?
	Is he... He...
	Like, early into the...
	Yeah, sorry. I think he is very good at...
	Very bad at judging people for being, you know, who they are.
	But very early in the relationship, I asked him, why did you divorce your wife?
	And he said...
	I asked him...
	Well, first I asked him why he married his wife, and he said, you know, I knocked her up.
	And he's, like, thinking that...
	I'm old-fashioned and gentlemanly.
	I think I should have married her if I knocked him up.
	No, no, no. Hang on.
	See, if he's really old-fashioned and gentlemanly, he's not playing hide the salami before there's a ring on the finger.
	That's not really very old-fashioned and gentlemanly.
	I know, I know, I know.
	And so he said that he decided to marry her because he got her pregnant.
	But he said that right before he was walking down the aisle, he said that he had a vision or something in his head said...
	This ain't gonna last forever.
	Or, you know, you're gonna get divorced soon.
	And so he, he said that he decided to just like, I don't know, like man up and marry her and get, you know, it's not very manly because you're not doing her any favors, but also I'm sure she fell from grace to get herself in that position as well.
	Just like what could have happened to me.
	Um, But, yeah, no, I do not want to be a stepmom.
	And I feel like listening to you, listening to your podcasts and your YouTube videos and everything, I feel like you kind of red-pilled me in a sense.
	As in, like...
	But consensually.
	Consensually red-pilled me.
	Consensual red-pilled. No, yes, sir.
	Because I've been looking at, like...
	I've been really digging deep and thinking about my own morals and...
	I've been a conservative before this, but I felt like I didn't have very good values.
	You know, I wasn't thinking about values.
	And now that you mention, like, well, now that I mention, we're talking about a man who's been divorced.
	I have a huge problem with divorce morally.
	I feel like if you're going to make a commitment to someone...
	You're gonna say you're gonna be with them for the rest of your life through thick and thin.
	You're gonna be able to work out your issues and everything.
	And so that's why now I have a huge problem with divorce.
	What about the kids, Kirsten?
	His kids? What about the kids?
	I never met them.
	No, I understand that. I understand that.
	But if you had gone on with a relationship with him, you would have ended up...
	When you go out with someone who's been divorced, or who is divorced, then either their partner is a good person, in which case they got dumped for being a shitty person.
	In which case, don't date them, right?
	Or their ex is a crappy person, in which case, well, they choose crappy people that might include you, and that's A. And B, you're now locking yourself in to a 15-year relationship with a psycho ex, right?
	Because you are going to be there.
	She's going to be there. Lawyers are going to be there.
	Visitation rights are going to be problematic.
	People are going to want to move.
	There's going to be creepy, sinister new boyfriends of the old flame floating around.
	The kids are going to be traumatized.
	She might turn the kids against you.
	What a mess!
	Why on earth would you want to step anywhere within 3,000 miles of such a quagmire?
	I don't know. I have no clue.
	I don't know.
	That's quite a mess.
	That's quite a mess. That's a hurricane.
	Right. You are someone who drives men insane.
	You think so?
	Oh, I know so.
	In what sense of the word?
	And not always in a good way.
	In what sense of the word?
	Like as in seductive or...
	Well, yes. Okay, where would you rate yourself on 1 to 10?
	Personally? Everybody knows their number.
	You know, don't give me any false modesty stuff.
	Yes, Steph. As in personal attractiveness or as in like physical attractiveness?
	Yeah, physical attractiveness. I would say like...
	Nine. I don't, I don't feel like I have any like, um, physical.
	No, that's fair. Um, I think that's my source because I've been told I like, I walked down the street.
	People will cat call me.
	People will ask me, random people will ask me out.
	Like I, I feel like it's sometimes it's sort of.
	Okay. No, I understand that.
	Kirsten you have, you are a very, very attractive 19 year old woman.
	Right? I would suppose, yes.
	No, no. I mean, let's not have any, you know, we're adults talking about adult issues.
	Let's not have any sort of...
	Okay. All right. Modesty out the window.
	Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, let's be frank.
	You know, this batting your eyelids.
	Well, I don't know. You're nine.
	I think that's fair. Maybe even more.
	I understand the power I have on people.
	Right. People. Men.
	Well, people, I guess.
	Non-men as well. But anyway.
	Right. So you...
	You could have any man you want.
	Yes. Right? I mean, seriously, other than guys in a coma and guys happily married like me, are there many men that you'd walked up to and say, Kristen would like a taste of y'all, so come meet me at Hooters.
	And would they say, no, I'm sorry, I've got to wash my hair tonight.
	Unless they're blatantly homosexual, which was a problem with somebody I went out with in high school, I would presume there would be no issue.
	Wait, you went out with a gay guy too?
	Yeah, yeah. He played me like a fiddle.
	He was just like...
	And this is why in some cultures, the adult males, the elders, determine who the young women marry.
	Yeah, no, his dad was real good, but his dad didn't even know he was gay.
	So you can have just about any man you want, and these are the men you choose.
	The gay guy and the lunatic.
	Drug addicts. Why?
	Yes, sir. Why? I don't know.
	I don't know. I think maybe problems from childhood?
	I don't know. Oh, that's just that you're reading that off like you're reading some foreign language.
	Come on. Childhood?
	Yes, that's exactly right.
	That sounds like the pinnacle of self-knowledge to me.
	Why do you think?
	Do you have any presumptions? Oh, I know why.
	I was just curious.
	I'd like to know because maybe it's too obvious for me to actually figure out.
	Okay. How many men have you slept with?
	One. Just this guy?
	I guess the gay guy didn't really count or didn't?
	No, no. He didn't like that type of thing.
	Yes, sir. Only one.
	I need you to put on this George Clooney mask if you don't mind.
	Right. I can tell you why I think.
	Okay. And then you can tell me if it makes any sense.
	All right. Let's say you met someone great.
	Someone smart, virtuous, moral, perceptive, courageous, honest, all these things that women often say they want while heading in the direction of the biker bar to where people are breaking billiard cues over each other's heads and saying, oh man, I know I said all that stuff, but this guy with legs the size of garbage cans, I'm for him.
	Let's say that you met a really great guy, the kind of guy that women always say they want to get with, and he comes over For a family gathering.
	Okay. What do you think he's going to say about what he sees?
	Boy, you have a screwed up family.
	Right. Yeah.
	Now, Kirsten, if such a wise and virtuous and knowledgeable and perceptive and honest man looks down the tunnel of time...
	Not like this last guy who seemed to look down the tunnel of you.
	He looks down the tunnel of time and says, if I sign up with this fine young lady, I could be spending the next 50 years with these people.
	Well, the only caveat to that is that one of them's in poor health, but I understand what you're saying.
	Yeah, it's not very attractive.
	I don't know if there's a number in the 10-digit scale enough to overcome that particular challenge.
	So, whose interests, Kirsten, are being served by you dating the men you date?
	This is the first question. When we're making bad decisions, this is clearly bad for you, obviously bad for you, obviously, blindingly obviously bad in advance, right?
	I mean, you write these kinds of letters and Mike and I have to use a carjack to get our jaws off the floor, right?
	Oh, Lord.
	No, come on. You heard it, right?
	Come on. Yes. You know, I'm a 19-year-old ultra hottie, and I thought it'd be great to divorce, to date, to sleep with a 30-year-old guy with two kids, mental problems, alcoholic, drug addict, about to get kicked out of the Navy.
	And then you say, oh, I was lying on the ground talking about suicide.
	Yes, sir. I don't know what's my problem right now.
	Well, that's what we're talking about.
	So, Pearson, when you, and this is for everyone who's listening to this, We are all Kirsten at one time or another.
	I have massive sympathy for all of this.
	So, if your interests aren't being served by what you're doing, the question is always, whose interests are being served by what you're doing?
	If it's not you, someone has to benefit from what you're doing.
	We don't just act randomly, right?
	Right, yeah. We don't just like run up to the top of a mountain, stand on our heads, scream in ancient Aramaic and do a cartwheel and then go buy a car and set fire to it.
	Like we don't just randomly do things.
	We do things in order to fulfill either our own needs for what we want or our own needs to please those around us or to avoid any negative consequences to them, right?
	Right, yeah, yeah. Okay, so your interests clearly not being served in this relationship, right?
	Right. Right, yeah, I would agree.
	So whose interests, who benefits from what you did?
	The other party, as in said Bob, said other gentleman.
	Well, sure, but that doesn't count because, I mean, tons of guys want to date you and sleep with you, right?
	This is like the world you live in, given your sexual market value.
	So, I mean, if that was your standard, I mean, you couldn't make it to the grocery store.
	Right. Right, right.
	Oh, there's a guy.
	He looked at me with lust in his eyes.
	Okay, sailor, I've got my port-a-potty.
	Let's go for it, right? I mean, this would not be how your life would go, right?
	I mean, you couldn't possibly say, well, I have to serve the sexual needs of every man in the vicinity who might want a piece of me.
	I mean, you couldn't buy shoes with laces, right?
	I mean, this would not be something that could be remotely sustainable.
	So it's not him because he would represent a lot of guys.
	So who in your life benefits from you dating someone?
	In this way. My parents.
	Right. Okay.
	I was going to say that, but I didn't want to throw anyone under the bus.
	See, you're defending the media.
	Right, so...
	Yes, sir, I am.
	The question is, what happens to...
	If your parents, do they have anyone strong in their life who tries to set them straight, who's honest with them, who's forthright, who talks about the issues that they may have and attempts to help them resolve that kind of stuff?
	I would say it's a mixture between me and my uncle.
	I have a really good relationship with my uncle.
	I talk to him about everything, even after this relationship.
	Okay, hang on, hang on. So you've got a great relationship with your uncle.
	Would you say that your uncle is a good man, a wise man?
	Yes, sir. Yes, he's very wise.
	Okay, great. Fantastic. So you must have talked to him about this huge decision to lose your virginity to this alcoholic drug addict, right?
	No, I didn't. No, no, no.
	You said you had a very good relationship with him.
	You talked to him about everything.
	I just felt like...
	I feel like a lot of times bringing up sex in a conversation is, like, indecent.
	This is so bad, because we're talking about it right now, right?
	Sleeping with a lunatic is not. I know, I know.
	It's a contradiction, but it was something...
	Okay, but forget about the sex stuff.
	I mean, I get it. He's your uncle, right?
	I mean, forget about the sex stuff.
	What about just the dating stuff?
	Hey, uncle so-and-so, I'm this guy.
	You know, he's divorced. He's got two kids.
	You know, I've been warned about, you know, this.
	I mean, did you talk to him about...
	I did.
	Okay, and what did he say?
	He said, like, I told him about his past...
	And my uncle said, like, asked me how he was treating me in the relationship that was, like I said, real brief.
	And my uncle's like, well, as long as he treats you good, you know, he seems like a really good guy.
	Okay, so he's not a wise man at all.
	Well, I was about to say, maybe I shouldn't have said he was a wise man, because he's in a very unhappy marriage now that I'm thinking of it.
	But he stayed married to the same woman.
	Maybe now that you're thinking of it, have you not thought about it before?
	Well, no, because he stayed married to my aunt for almost 50 years.
	So who, Kirsten, in your life has a good relationship with their spouse, their boyfriend, their girlfriend, their partner?
	Well, Stefan, to be honest, I can only think of one couple.
	And they're not related to me.
	They're my neighbors. And I watch their kids and...
	They have a really, really good relationship.
	They're open with each other.
	The husband, I watch the kids and he's a really good father.
	He's a Marine.
	He comes home every night at a reasonable time in the afternoon and he spends a lot of time with the kids.
	They're always going to places during the weekend, and they're going away.
	They spend time together as a family.
	What they do is he has a good relationship with his parents.
	They're always there for each other, and she's a real good mother.
	She stayed home with the kids when they were younger.
	And how do they get along with your family?
	Oh, my family is like, it's like fire and water, like oil and water, like they won't go near each other.
	They only will ever talk to me.
	Okay. Okay.
	So the functional family in your neighborhood is in opposition to your family, right?
	Right. Yeah, I mean, they're polite.
	They have good manners. No, no, no, I get that.
	You don't have to give me all the caveats.
	I'm not saying that they're launching howitzes at each other.
	I mean, I'm just that they're in opposition.
	They don't get along. And as you say, fire and ice, right?
	Or functional and dysfunctional or whatever, right?
	Okay, so if you have a good relationship, if you get a great guy, if you have a functional guy, won't he be in the same relationship to your family that your neighbors are?
	I would suppose so.
	Well, what do you mean you would suppose so?
	You just said that the most functional family around can't stand your parents and your parents can't stand them.
	Well, no. My mother does like them, to talk to them, but she feels embarrassed to talk to them because of the family.
	No, no, no. You said fire and ice and in opposition.
	Well, that's true. Okay, so don't get...
	No, no. I'm not in opposition.
	I keep talking to your parents through you.
	You'll listen to this, you'll hear back.
	Whenever we get to close this, oh no, I'm not saying that they're...
	She's nice to them.
	They're polite to each other. No, no, no.
	I know that they're in opposition.
	Functional and dysfunctional people can't get along.
	Okay, yeah. Because dysfunctional people resent the functional people and the functional people are extremely bored by the dysfunctional people because dysfunction is so repetitive.
	It's so boring. It's like defensive people.
	It's so boring.
	You say something that they don't like, like this emotional explosion manipulation.
	It's so boring. It's so predictable.
	There's no spontaneity or creativity among dysfunctional people because all they're doing is playing pinball off their own emotional hysteria and trying to avoid the truth as much as humanly possible.
	It's really boring.
	So functional people have very little to say to dysfunctional people.
	And dysfunctional people feel very self-conscious around functional people.
	And that self-consciousness is shame slash resentment slash rage slash covered up.
	It's weird. You can't just have a relaxed time talking about what's on your mind because there's all this maneuvering.
	Who's functional? Who's not functional?
	And then, of course, when the functional people leave, the dysfunctional people immediately set in like jackals on the carcass of a whale on a beach, ripping them apart.
	Oh, Lord. Am I wrong?
	No, you're absolutely right.
	Of course, they've got to level up, right?
	They feel humiliated by the functional people.
	As soon as the functional people leave, they've got to tear down the functional people.
	Otherwise, they have to get better themselves.
	It's a lot easier to tear other people down in absentia than to become a better person yourself.
	Yeah, it's like an inferiority complex.
	So... This is who will suffer.
	This is who will lose if you date somebody who's great.
	The dysfunctional people are in.
	So how do I go about that?
	How do I go about...
	Let me rephrase that.
	That's not specific. How do you fix it?
	How do I go about seeking out genuinely morally virtuous individuals?
	Okay, a couple of things, a couple of principles here.
	You cannot fix dysfunctional people.
	That's true. Sorry.
	I'm on a phone call.
	That's my dad. I'm sorry.
	I apologize. It's almost like he knows you're talking.
	You cannot fix dysfunctional people.
	You can, and I say this for bitter personal experience, Kirsten, you can flush away significant years of your life trying to fix dysfunctional people.
	They don't become functional, you just get worse.
	Right, yeah. You don't save them from drowning, they just pull you under.
	So you cannot, and letting go of that is really, really important.
	Letting go of that. You can't fix them.
	You couldn't fix this drug addict.
	You can't fix your parents. You cannot fix dysfunctional people.
	That's true. The best thing you can do is provide an example of what functionality looks like and see if they're interested, right?
	Yes. Right. So, it's like losing weight.
	You can't force fat people to lose weight.
	Other than providing them Michelle Obama's lunches or so on.
	You can't force people who are fat to lose weight.
	What you can do... If you're fat, you can lose weight yourself and you can play sports and you can climb stairs and you can do gymnastics and you can dance.
	And at some point they may say, wow, you know, you can do a lot of really cool stuff.
	But most likely what they'll do is they'll offer you a lot of fried food and a lot of cheesecake.
	Or they'll tear you down in the name of feminism.
	Oh, yeah, yeah. Because all body types are beautiful, except for that one.
	That really attractive one, that's got to go.
	Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know it.
	I know it. It's the same thing, right?
	I mean, if you can either become more attractive yourself, or you can say that attractiveness is immoral and dysfunctional, and then that way you lower the sexual market value of attractive women by making them feel self-conscious and apologetic.
	Oh, it's gross. It's parasitical.
	Off-beauty is really gross.
	Right. Anyway. So you can fix them.
	And at some point, and this is a young age to be doing it, so I just sort of plant the seed.
	At some point, you have to decide that your life and your future must not be dictated by the shadows of the past.
	Right. They've made their choices.
	Like your uncle who's had an unhappy marriage for 50 years.
	Yeah, I'm sorry. I think that's terrible.
	Right. But that's his choice.
	Yeah, I mean, he did not for us.
	No, no, no. I'll talk here.
	Okay, then I'll shut up.
	All right. So your uncle has this.
	Your parents have stayed together, although you say that your father is kind of dysfunctional or whatever.
	So they've made their choices.
	Mm-hmm. They've made their bed.
	They lie in their bed. Their lives are their choices.
	Your life is your choice.
	You can choose differently.
	You can choose differently.
	And if people have lived lives far below their potential, then you achieving your potential will be extraordinarily painful to them.
	See, here's what happens to a lot of people.
	I dare say maybe even most people.
	Kirsten, what happens is this.
	They have the choice to grow, to improve, to rise above.
	To not be dominated by or dictated by the past.
	To set their own standards.
	To set their own values. To grow into the kind of people they know in their heart of hearts they could be.
	And they feel and tantalizingly see this will-of-the-wisp possibility of who they could be.
	It comes to them in fragments.
	It comes to them in dreams.
	It comes to them in odd, manic motivations when they see particular things that they could achieve or they see noble people and the part of them is like, I want that.
	I want to become that. I want to leave this crap behind, this trailer park of the soul behind, and I want to climb up the vines to the highest castle and cry my barbaric York from the rooftop of the world.
	There are those moments for everyone.
	And a lot of people feel that that is abandoning the broken tribe they grew up with and that their success, their growth, their health is a mute condemnation and causes enormous pain.
	To those around them.
	Because people make these compromises.
	You know, they see, you know, maybe your uncle or maybe someone like him.
	They see a woman who's better and they yearn for her.
	They see people like your neighbors, the Marine.
	They see things that are better and they yearn for it.
	And then they slip into what is familiar, and they slip into what is comfortable, and they slip into what is approved by all the broken people around you.
	And if there's one thing you never, ever want approved of in your life, Kirsten, it's decisions by the broken people around you.
	When the broken people are cheering, you're going down.
	And you're going down so soft, there's no bottom.
	You go down hard, you bounce.
	You go down soft. Because they won't say anything.
	Oh, you know, we like him. Oh, yeah, we think he seems like a good guy.
	Well, if he treats you well, that's all that matters to us.
	It's a soft landing. A soft landing is no bottom.
	You know, there's an old question I used to get when I was a kid about if there's a hole drilled through the middle of the world and you jump like a hole all the way through, like putting an apple cora through an orange or an apple, I guess.
	If you jump in, what happens?
	I don't know. Well, I initially thought what happens is you jump in and you swing down too far like a yo-yo and you bounce up and then you bounce down and then you just come to rest in the middle.
	But that's not actually how it works.
	What works physically is you jump in And you slow down as you get to the center of the earth and then you stop in the center of the earth.
	The reason being that as you get to the center of the earth, the gravity pulling you in gets smaller and then there's now there's gravity above you, the miles and miles and miles of rock above you and as now exerting gravity.
	So what happens is when you jump in, there's no big oscillation, there's certainly no hard bounce.
	You just come to rest in the center.
	It's like you drill a hole through your history and you jump in.
	Drill a hole back through time, through the generations, you jump in.
	You end up coming to a calm and dead rest right in the center of all that dysfunction.
	There's no bounce. There's no oscillation.
	There's no swinging back and forth.
	It's just, that's the soft landing.
	And what happens is people make these compromises.
	Ah, this is familiar. Oh, everyone approves of my girlfriend, of my fiancé, of my wife.
	Everyone approves of how I parent.
	Well, if I don't spank, people are going to get mad at me.
	And they will. If you're around spankers and you don't spank, they're not going to feel very happy about that, especially if your kids are doing well.
	Ooh, bad all around.
	And then what happens is they say, first of all, they say, this is the best.
	This person is the best.
	Everyone approves of her. She fits right in.
	Oh no! I come from a dysfunctional family and this person fits right in.
	My entire art gallery is horrible post-modernist Paul Clay Cubist bullshit.
	This picture fits right in.
	I can tell you this. It's not a Reuben.
	And then what happens is they say, this person is the best.
	And then when the dysfunction becomes obvious, they say, well, this is the best I can do.
	And then after a while, when they continue to have this soft landing into nothingness, they end up saying, this is the best that can be done.
	This is how they live with themselves.
	This is how they live with this dysfunction.
	Okay. They say, this is the best that can be done.
	All relationships are like this on the inside.
	Have you ever seen this?
	I'm sure you have. You go to a restaurant and you see some couple in their 60s sitting there eating away at their surf and turf.
	And they don't say a word to each other for like half an hour or an hour.
	Have you ever seen that? I have, yeah.
	Yeah, and it's kind of weird.
	I remember seeing that as a kid, like, well, that seems like a pretty soft and silent prison to be stuck in for the rest of your natural-born life.
	How horrible. And you know one of them is wishing they could just choke to death with the shrimp and get it all over there.
	Oh, Lord. Seriously.
	Bring me something choky.
	I'd like a peeled grape, please, and some sideways fish bones.
	All right. And so, and then they, and I mentioned this once to a married couple I knew years ago, and the woman said, yeah, it happens.
	It happens to everyone. Well, I've been married for 13 years.
	It hasn't happened to me. Right.
	Oh, that's what it's all like.
	All relationships. How many times have you heard this?
	Relationships are work.
	You've got to work at your relationship.
	I've heard that, yeah.
	Yeah. No, you don't.
	No, you don't. It should not be work.
	You already have a job, I hope, called doing stuff in the world.
	Your relationship should not be a job.
	Right. You should not have to work.
	People say you have to work at stuff because it's not working and they don't want to admit that.
	And it's too late.
	And so they say all relationships are dysfunctional.
	That's how they live with themselves.
	Well, my wife and I yell at each other, but all couples yell at each other.
	Oh, my wife cheated on me, but everyone cheats on everyone.
	And maybe in the circles they move, that's all true.
	Right. But now you need this big Bruce Lee mirror disco chamber echo chamber, right?
	Where everyone has got to be dysfunctional, otherwise what you have is not the best that can be got.
	Wow. Right?
	And so then what happens is you are committed to keeping functional people out of your mental ecosystem.
	You can't have them around.
	Right? Right.
	Have you ever seen a family of fat people with one skinny person at the table?
	No. No! That's right.
	I've been to Florida. I know.
	I am not going on an all-you-can-eat cruise ship with these people.
	It is not fair.
	I shouldn't say that. I eat a lot.
	But I exercise, so it's different. So there's a system that people embed themselves in, and it's a system of justification for It's a system of justification for their compromises.
	That's what they do. If you have a dysfunctional relationship, you cannot have functional people around.
	And why would functional people want to be around anyway?
	They know they can't fix you.
	That's why they're functional.
	One of the essential aspects of being a functional human being is giving up on dysfunctional people.
	You have to do it.
	I don't mean never seeing them or anything like that.
	I just mean giving up on the idea that you can fix them.
	Or change them. Right. Or improve them.
	Yeah, you know, I mean, if you've done things and you've gotten better and they're interested, you could give them some tips.
	You could send them to therapy. But, you know, they can read books.
	They can go to the library. They can figure these things out.
	Nathaniel Brandon's got workbooks.
	John Bradshaw's got workbooks.
	Jordan Peterson's got workbooks.
	I mean, you know, tons of people got stuff that you can start down that journey.
	No one's stopping anyone. I love Jordan Peterson.
	Yeah. I'm not sure where you are.
	That's a huge endorsement, but we'll continue to work on that at the moment, right?
	No, I've been...
	No, but everyone's in a system of justification, and most people are in a system of justification for their own compromises, for their own cowardice, for their own loss of decades of happiness and joy and bliss and love, for their own being plowed under in the wet earth of history.
	Right. And so...
	People are benefiting from you, I believe, from you having a bad relationship by having a series of bad relationships.
	Why? Because they say they go home with a newfound appreciation for their crappy spouse, right?
	They're feeding off your future, in my humble opinion.
	I'm not saying they're doing it consciously.
	I'm not saying they're doing it out of some big org chart, lunatic, Russell Crowe basement diagram series.
	I'm just saying that there is an effect that happens.
	If you meet a great guy and you're happy and you're certain and you're in love and you're taken care of and you're respected and he makes you laugh and you're excited to see him every day, What the hell are you going to have in common with people who've spent 50 years of lockstep misery in a declining marriage?
	Nothing. Wow.
	I haven't thought about that until now.
	Because everyone talks about self-knowledge like it's just some personal thing.
	But you just have to learn about yourself, right?
	Right. No.
	No, no, no, no. First, you learn about the people.
	When you're young, you learn about the people around you.
	To hell with yourself. You don't even have one yet.
	Right. You're mostly the utility instrument of dysfunctional people around you, if that's your environment.
	Learning about yourself, that's for later.
	Right. Right?
	Yeah, I actually come into conversation with people who are like, I'll tell them my hopes and dreams, for example.
	I've said, probably a year ago, I told my aunt, I'm like, I really want to have...
	Or she asked me, what are my goals?
	And I said, I really want to have a happy marriage.
	And she's like, not till you're 30.
	You've got to learn who you are.
	And I'm like, but I... What?
	Like, it's sort of just like...
	No, you've got to learn who they are.
	Yeah, exactly. My eyes have been opened.
	Yeah. Because, you know, let's cast aside, and I've been doing this jokey demeanor too, and it's been enjoyable, but we need to, I mean, if we could stare eyeball to eyeball, that would be better, but, you know, brain to brain, heart to heart, Kirsten, this was a very dangerous moment in your life.
	It could have been deadly for all of your future happiness, right?
	Yes, sir, exactly. This guy could have been dangerous.
	People who are suicidal are...
	Desperate people. People who are alcoholics can be violent.
	People who are drug addicts can be dangerous.
	And he could have given you some permanent STD. He could have gotten you pregnant, which would have either resulted in a child that would have warded off, I have a kid with a drug addict.
	Want to get married?
	No. This could have destroyed your life.
	Or maybe you went off and got an abortion.
	And then you meet a guy.
	Hey, how was your last relationship?
	Not great. I had to have an abortion because I got knocked up by a drug alcoholic who was suicidal.
	Oh my gosh.
	You understand? You took your entire goddamn future in your hand and you dangled it off a cliff like one of Michael Jackson's babies off a balcony.
	For God's sakes, this could have destroyed your life.
	I know stuff. I know stuff.
	I know we're laughing and we're joking and all of that, but now is the time to stop laughing and start panicking.
	Because your environment, there are people in your life, I assume, they say they love you and they want to keep you safe and happy, and you ended up being dangled over a really bottomless chasm here that could have destroyed your life.
	And you got out by a hair, right?
	Right. Because you had unprotected sex, right?
	Yes, sir. Right. You had unprotected sex.
	Because you were in love, right?
	No, it wasn't love, now that I'm seeing it.
	No, no, but at the time...
	Yes. Right?
	Yes. And so you had unprotected sex with an unstable guy.
	I did. And I assume it was somewhat around fertility time?
	Yes, sir. So you were...
	Damn lucky. I know.
	That those tadpoles didn't hit the Death Star, right?
	Yes. A bit short of a miracle, I would say.
	Yeah, the miracle is pregnancy.
	Dodging a bullet. Well, dodging a missile.
	Dodging a missile. This wasn't a bullet.
	This could have been substantial damage.
	But listen, I'm telling you, it would have destroyed your life.
	It would have destroyed any chance for getting a quality guy.
	Quality guys do not want to raise kids with a drug addict.
	Right. Hey, he's unstable.
	He's suicidal. He's getting out of the Navy or being kicked out of the Navy.
	I've got his kid. Do you feel like tying yourself to me and to him for the next 50 years?
	Any sane guy is going to be like, hell no.
	Sorry, you're a great lady.
	You seem like you've got a lot of spirit.
	You're very attractive. But I am not tying myself down to pouring money into this guy's kid and having him around for the next 20 years of my life.
	Why would he? Right.
	I don't know why.
	It's not a quality.
	It's the quality of like a schmuck.
	It's not the quality of like an anchor, a person who's going to...
	Like, keep you stable and be there, you know?
	Oh, listen, when I was...
	I'm a quality guy.
	When I was dating, I heard kids.
	Good luck. But no, thank you.
	Why? I wouldn't have my own kid.
	Right. Have you had an STD test since the relationship ended?
	I've had a few tests and I don't have anything.
	All right. Yeah, exactly.
	It was... You are an attractive young woman with an entire extended family around you and you basically almost got taken down by a predator here.
	It's one thing if you're alone in the woods.
	It's another thing if you're at a bus stop and a lion takes you down and everyone's like raising their newspapers and their iPads so they don't have to see who the hell was taking care of you.
	You go mental when you fall in love or when you fall in lust or when those endorphins kick in.
	Everyone does. Everyone does.
	You can't throw sex at people.
	You can't throw marriage talk at people.
	You've got to get to know them because the moment we start having sex and we start talking marriage, we go insane.
	Seriously, I'm not kidding. This is biochemical.
	You can look it all up. The endorphins, the happy joy juice that's going through your system makes you mental.
	Right. And you look at this, you look back and you say, what the hell was I thinking?
	You weren't thinking. Nature was saying, okay, if this is how we're making a baby, I'm bonding the living shit out of you with this guy.
	You are going to bond. You're going to think he's the greatest guy ever because that's the only way the babies are going to survive.
	I don't care what he's like, but you better bond with him because no other guy throughout history would bring you resources for some other guy's kid, at least not in a case like the society, maybe other places.
	And so if you start talking this way and you start thinking this way and you start having sex, nature is gluing you to this guy.
	And he's – you understand? Yes, I do.
	And you peel that off. You ever get like really the crazy glue and stuff on your finger and you don't like – I mean that's like, okay, I guess I'll – I hope that will regrow.
	I guess I have new fingerprints.
	Right? So you will bond with man.
	Women more so than men.
	Like many times more so than men.
	You will bond with him.
	And yeah, you can pull that off.
	But a good portion of your heart stays behind.
	And the next guys in your life, they don't want a broken, diminished, bleeding heart.
	They want someone who's fresh.
	I mean, this is not the guy you wanted to lose your virginity to, right?
	No, sir. I believe that...
	I kind of want to talk about that for a second.
	Um, firstly, I regret it, but then I don't regret it at the same time.
	And I'm going to explain, and that's not going to make sense until I explain it.
	And maybe I'm just lying to myself, but I feel like part of me regrets it because he obviously was a genuinely screwed up individual.
	We've, we've covered that thus far.
	Um, you know, and, and the second point is, um, I feel like If I didn't sleep with him, I maybe would have not learned the same moral lesson that I'm learning now.
	I wouldn't have been like, well, Kirsten, you're real fucked up now.
	I wouldn't have thought.
	Oh, no, no. No, I got to take that away from you.
	Sorry. I mean, I understand why you have that justification.
	How long have you been listening to the show?
	Ever since I've got out of this relationship.
	So I would say a month.
	All right. All right. Sorry. I thought maybe if you'd known before.
	Okay. Yeah, no, no, I haven't.
	Actually, another point I must stress is that after I got out of this relationship, I've been reading everything.
	I've been looking up psychology.
	I found you.
	I found Jordan Peterson.
	Like I said, I found people like all of those people on YouTube that talk about relationships and modern conservatism and stuff like that.
	And I feel like after this relationship, I had to cut out people in my life.
	I had friends who were sleeping around with another guy every day, and I'm not even exaggerating about that at all.
	So I had to cut those people out of my life.
	I cut this guy out. All this stuff that happened, I feel like I went full red pill.
	Okay, that makes a little bit more sense.
	And I'm sorry that you had to have this enormous scare in order to jolt you into this.
	And, you know, your culture has failed you.
	It's not just your family. I mean, the movies have failed.
	You know, every movie you see pretty much these days, man, woman, meat.
	And what's the next thing? They exchange like three sentences and the next thing you know, they're in bed.
	No, seriously, it is like programming you to be our selected rabbit idiots for the rest of time.
	It destroys sexual market value.
	I mean, in the same way that, you know, whoever nasty satanic people are currently running Katy Perry's brain said, hey, the important thing is to cut your hair, support Hillary Clinton and ask really dumb questions of Neil deGrasse Tyson.
	Is math related to science?
	Oh, Lord. Oh, Lord.
	You should watch it. PewDiePie's got a great video on it.
	I mean, great as in...
	Oh, God. Oh, God.
	Oh, God. Shut up and sing.
	So, I understand that something positive came out of this, you know, in the same way that some people, you know, they...
	Almost crash their car.
	Maybe they go take driver's ed or something.
	I don't know, right? So you've been failed by your culture, by your religion, by the people around you.
	This is not hard to see.
	Some people are more subtly camouflaged.
	This guy's not one of them. Right.
	This guy's not one of them. An 11-year difference and an experience-level difference.
	You... We're in a position of not knowing yourself.
	Now, when you don't know yourself, Kirsten, and I'm not saying 0% you knew yourself, and this is a very stylistic way of talking, so I hope you'll forgive me for the hyperbole, but when you're in a position of not knowing yourself, do you know what you end up doing?
	You end up doing what the most strong-willed person around you wants you to do.
	Does that make sense? What do you mean by that?
	Well, you said he asked you out, he was dominant, so you conformed to him when you lack your...
	You know, whatever you pour water into, that's the shape the water takes, right?
	You pour it into a vase, it becomes the shape of a vase.
	You pour it into a doggy bowl, the shape of...
	You understand, right? Right, yeah.
	Because the water has no identity.
	The water conforms to its environment.
	And when you don't know yourself, what happens is you wander through life being at the mercy, like a leaf in the wind, or...
	A piece of kelp in the current, you end up being at the mercy of the strongest-willed person around you.
	It's an invitation for strong-willed or dominant people, and by that I don't mean necessarily healthy people, for strong-willed people to just tell you what's what.
	And this is a bit of an issue with women.
	Women say, oh, what do women want?
	It's like, well, a lot of what women want is to be sheltered and shielded and protected and taken care of so they can create a wonderful nest to grow babies.
	Yes. Right? And so the idea that...
	For women, a lot of times, the, quote, virtue or the biologically advantageous strategy is to obey the strongest-willed person in the environment.
	That's what women are programmed to do because the strongest-willed person in the environment will often be the person who gets the most resources.
	Who elbows all the other men aside, who gets the biggest and choicest cuts of meat, who hides the rabbit in his jacket to bring it back home to his family, who's willing to go and poach on the king's lands like the dominant, strong, alpha, quote, brute, is the guy who's going to get you resources, which you're going to need for your kids.
	So for a woman to conform to the strongest personality around, particularly to the strongest man around, It's very common.
	And again, are you listening, Europe?
	It's really important to understand.
	And so now that you're in the process of knowing yourself and defining your values and what you care for and what your standards are going to be, you have a way of judging other than appeasing or conforming to the strongest-willed man around.
	This guy was, I assume, The guy who wanted you the most, the guy who was willing to make advances the most, the guy who was willing to sweep you off your feet.
	Isn't this what women say? Sweep me off my feet.
	Well, then you can't stand on your own two feet, can you?
	Right. You know that song from South Pacific that's like something about like he saw her standing across a crowded room or saw her laughing across a crowded room?
	It was that situation.
	Sure. Our eyes met across a crowded room.
	That's the cliche, right?
	Yeah, it's exactly what the cliche was.
	Or the Beatles. I saw her standing there, right?
	I saw her. Boom! Oh, right.
	I knew she was the one.
	And then they come sweeping in.
	You're the one, angel.
	There's stars in your eyes and your whole future.
	And of course, I mean, look at Beauty and the Beast.
	Look at all the goddamn princes who used to look a lot less gay than they do now.
	But the princes who come in and sweep you off your feet.
	What choice does Cinderella have?
	He's the prince. She's poor.
	He comes with her shoe and she goes with him.
	Like he's tugging a little toy balloon behind him with no willpower.
	What does she do?
	She's pretty and he's rich.
	Melania Trump was asked, would you be with Donald if he wasn't wealthy?
	Do you know what she said?
	What'd she say? Would he be with me if I wasn't beautiful?
	Oh, that's good.
	Well, you know the song, your daddy's rich and your mama's good looking, right?
	Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is, I'm sorry, like, I mean, I don't know how shocked, you know, virgins are about this kind of stuff, but yes, men trade resources for female fertility.
	That's why we're all here.
	And so women lack willpower in this kind of area a lot, lack agency in this kind of area a lot, which is why they get, quote, swept off their feet.
	And it's the job of the men in their environment, maybe the women too, but I just speak for the men, it's all I know.
	It's the job of the men in their environment to keep alpha lunatics at bay.
	Keep strong-willed crazy away from the eggs.
	Poke it back with a stick if you have to.
	But keep the charismatic nutjobs away from the eggs.
	Because that's just breeding more charismatic nutjobs.
	Can you imagine if this guy, Kirsten, if this guy has any genetic components to his personality problems?
	Can you imagine what kind of kids you were going to get out of that?
	Scary ones. Personality is genetic.
	Right, yeah. So anybody with any brains, anybody with any self-knowledge has studied genetics, has studied its influence on personality, anybody with brains and self-knowledge.
	So he's going to look and say, oh yeah, I know I have this kid from the drug addict.
	Oh yeah, I wonder what those drugs and alcoholism did to his sperm quality.
	I wonder how much of that personality dysfunction is going to be transmitted genetically.
	Not only am I going to have the father lunatic around, but the kid could easily grow up into some kind of lunatic too, and that's my life, not even my kid.
	Oh, Lord. This is what I mean when I say how dangerous these weeks were.
	I know. And I don't know.
	I obviously take responsibility for being a idiot.
	I'm trying to scare the pants back on you.
	No, I know. And I'm like, is there a God?
	There must be a God. Because I mean, it's almost like life has just slapped me in the face.
	And I'm incredibly grateful for what you do.
	On your podcast, I'm incredibly grateful for the people like you that put information out there because I feel like it's changed my life.
	Well, I appreciate that, Kirsten, but I'll tell you this.
	God may have saved you once.
	He won't do it again.
	Exactly. The rest, you know, you get one freebie.
	You get one Samuel L. Jackson outline bullet spray around the wall.
	After that, you've got to start dodging these bullets on your own, right?
	One mulligan. After that...
	You gotta put them where they sink.
	Yeah, I guess it's, you know, I gotta buckle up, I guess, and really use my brain, continue to learn, you know?
	And this is why I was saying that you're driving men crazy, because there are quality men out there who are dreaming of you.
	Guaranteed you. I guarantee.
	They look at you, you're smart, you've got a good sense of humor, and you're pretty, and you're marriage-minded, and you're conservative.
	There are men out there, quality men, who are dreaming of you.
	Right. And they see you going for this guy, and they may end up hating you.
	I know men who have.
	You know, I was a great friend to this woman.
	We have values in common.
	We got along. I made her laugh.
	I'm a good provider. And then she went out with this guy.
	And she slept with this guy.
	Are you kidding me?
	Yeah, and I've like...
	For example, my mother told the story of what happened to me about the whole pregnancy scare or whatever to her friend and her friend's husband, who's a Marine.
	And he... I'm not even kidding.
	This guy was about to, like, get him fired, like, from his current job, the guy I was with.
	Because he was just like, I can't believe what happened.
	Like, but then I'm like, well, I was an idiot here.
	And so that guy, like, her husband got so mad.
	You're supposed to be an idiot in a way.
	That's the charm of 19, right?
	Right, but like...
	Yeah, but like 19-year-olds can still play with fire and get burned just like most older adults.
	Right. And that's why it's important for the elders of the tribe to keep crazy away from the eggs and keep the eggs away from crazy.
	That's the job. And we can renounce that job if we want, but then we're just, you know, building another trap to the future that drags us down into totalitarianism.
	Because if you had gotten pregnant by this guy...
	You're going to be a single mom, you're going to rely on the state, and you will never be able to be a credible libertarian, right?
	Right. I was going to be a leech, but...
	Yeah, and we'd have some sympathy for you, for sure, and you'd have some agency in it as well, for sure, but...
	That's not the life I want.
	Yeah, I heard your dad singing earlier as he passed by, and given what happened to you weeks ago...
	I'm not sure I'd be singing yet.
	He doesn't know the full extent to it, but he's a few cards short of a deck, if I may say.
	No, I'm sorry to hear that.
	I really am. No, I like...
	Like, he's just...
	Because, I mean, young women like yourself have this awesome power of sexual attraction combined with, of course, massive amounts of state power, right?
	And... You need older people to help you to manage this kind of power.
	Right. You know, I mean, I have a very pretty daughter, and, you know, I'm already helping her to start to understand that she doesn't get a lot of free stuff just because she's got a great personality.
	She does have a great personality, a wonderful person to be around, but there's a power in prettiness.
	Right. That...
	It's what Nietzsche says. You know, there are three kinds of people who never get the truth.
	the beautiful, the powerful, and the very wealthy, because their resources and their controls distort the reality of those around them somewhat consciously, somewhat unconsciously.
	I don't think it's true that you'll never get the truth.
	I I think, hopefully, we're speaking pretty frankly in this conversation.
	But it is an awesome amount of power that young women have.
	It is the power to choose whether we have civilization or not, because depending on who you end up Making babies with, that's whether we get a civilization or not.
	If the young women end up making babies with good men, hey, look, we get civilization.
	Why? Because you have a provider.
	You don't need a giant state.
	You're committed to small taxes because you're not making money off the state.
	In fact, the state is making money off you.
	So, look, we get civilization.
	We get continuation of the great things that our ancestors died for.
	We get property rights.
	We get freedom of speech.
	We get, you know, all these wonderful things.
	Impregnate you. And if you get pregnant by trashy guys, by low-rent guys, by unreliable guys, we don't get civilization.
	It comes down, you know, the future is a why, not a what.
	And the why is your legs.
	Whether they're open or closed, and to whom?
	That's all it comes down to these days.
	Are you going to be impregnated by good guys or bad guys?
	And we can have all the philosophy in the world, and Lord knows I love that kind of stuff too.
	We're going to talk about it more tonight with other people.
	But all the philosophy in the world cannot overcome the power of the V to open or close.
	I've heard that. I've heard that women destroy society or one attractive woman can technically cause society to go to hell or something.
	Helena Troy. Yeah, Helena Troy.
	I sometimes...
	No, and I don't think it's down to one woman, but it comes down to women like yourself.
	This is why I'm spending a lot of time in this conversation, and I want you to have a great and happy and wonderful life with a great guy.
	And if you want to be married and want to be mom, which sounds great, sounds wonderful, and I'd highly, highly recommend it.
	But it is a bigger issue than just you, which is why it's so powerful to talk about this kind of stuff and why I really, really appreciate you.
	This is why you're on the show and why I really, really appreciate you being so frank and honest about what happened, is that if women can't find a way to restrain themselves, and it's going to have to come from within because the government has taken away all the cues that otherwise would have given you...
	Better feedback to make better decisions.
	All of that has been numbed, right?
	Right, yeah. So if women do not find any way to restrain their darker sexual impulses, you know, women in general, women statistically, come on, you all love a bit of rough trade, right?
	Yeah, you know what? Honestly.
	Yeah, we like them. You like them a little stubbly, a little rough, maybe smelling a little bit of cigars and whiskey.
	You like it a little rough?
	I mean, I remember there was one woman, oh, David Beckham, oh, those tattoos.
	It's like, come on.
	So, women like a little bit of rough trade, and that's, again, we know that women are most fertile.
	They tend to prefer the most rough-looking men, and then when they're not most fertile, they tend to find slightly more docile-looking men attractive.
	I'm not talking men who look like the ass end of a Brahmin cow, but, you know, not quite as chisel-jawed and stubbly and all that kind of stuff.
	And so, if women can't find a way to aim the V at good guys, I mean, it doesn't matter what people like.
	Me or Mike Cernovich or Paul Joseph Watson or Bill Whittle or like all the others.
	It doesn't matter what we did.
	Right. You know, I mean, Charles Johnson can do all the wonderful things that he does behind the scenes.
	Man, that guy's a power behind the throne.
	They can do all these wonderful things. It doesn't matter.
	You guys point the V at bad boys.
	It doesn't matter. I mean, you know, it's like we can bail all we want, but if women are drilling holes in the bottom of the ship in a very bad analogy and then, you know, the water's coming in faster than the thinkers can bail it out.
	Right. If the salty stuff goes in the wrong holes, that's what I'm trying to tell you.
	If that happens, we're doomed, and it doesn't matter what the words are.
	That's a fitting reference.
	Real fitting reference.
	I would say, yeah, no, I get you, and I feel like I don't want to complain about society leading me the wrong way, because I'm in charge of my own.
	No, but you should. You are not...
	Right. But I had a friend who was just like, why haven't you slept with so many guys in the past week?
	I'm like... What?
	I'm sorry, do we speak the same language?
	I say this in a joking manner.
	And like I said, you said earlier in the conversation how you can't change dysfunctional people.
	And what I was trying to do, like five minutes before I met this guy, I'm not even joking, I was trying to change my friend and make her a virtuous individual and show her the way, show her that sleeping with a lot of guys is not going to lead her to happiness.
	And what did she do? She keeps...
	Pregnancy scare after pregnancy scare after pregnancy scare and sleeping with guys when she's 17 and lying about her age.
	I mean, I dropped her like a hot rock.
	Well, yes, and she's become unmarriable because this knowledge is getting out there.
	Listen, I've done entire presentations on this truth about sex, truth about single motherhood and so on, and you may have heard that you may have not.
	But you know that now this information has been suppressed.
	That a woman who's been drilled a lot, it's kind of like trying to use a colander for a soup bowl.
	Only going to work for a very short amount of time and you can end up with a very wet lap and a burning sensation on your lap.
	Hey, that actually really worked as an analogy.
	Anyway. But women who've had a lot of sexual partners, you're not marriable.
	There's an old play that had a huge influence on me.
	By Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Desire.
	Oh, yeah. And in it, Blanche Dubois, you know, I'm comfortable giving spoilers for stuff that's more than half a century old, but in it, Blanche Dubois is this, like, hysterical caricature of a gay man masquerading as a Southern woman, because, you know, it was a gay guy who wrote the play.
	But, um... She sleeps with everything and everyone.
	And she says, oh, it's to fight the death instinct.
	It's all this kind of arty-farty shit.
	I mean, it's like, yeah, right. Yeah, you're fighting the death instinct.
	That's right. Just like all the rabbits do.
	We're just fighting the death instinct.
	It's like, no, you're horny. I get it.
	All right. And then she's got this bit where she says, you know, I can't eat an unwashed grape, Lorde.
	You know, this is like fainting couch purism stuff, right?
	Yeah. And she's hiding her past.
	She's hiding her past. And she's trying to basically con a guy into marrying her.
	And she's hiding that she's an alcoholic.
	She's hiding that she's insane.
	She's hiding that she's hysterical.
	And she's hiding that she's been a multi-decade slut who's had more traffic than the channel.
	And... Oh, Lord. Then, eventually, the husband of her sister goes to the guy she's trying to get to marry him and tells him the truth.
	And... He gets really angry and he comes over and he wants to have sex with her.
	And she's like, Lord, no.
	And she's like, what?
	Just me? You had sex with just about everyone else south of Mason Dixon and you're not having sex with me?
	He gets really angry, right? Because she's been playing the virgin and the non-drinker and the non-crazy woman for him for so long, right?
	And it is...
	Powerful when he says, I'm not going to marry you now that I know the truth.
	And she says, well, why not?
	And he says, because you're not clean enough to bring into the house with my mother.
	Oh. And she goes mental, right?
	She just physically attacks him.
	Right, yeah, yeah. This knowledge of how a lot of sexual partners makes women unmarriable, this used to be known.
	This used to be common knowledge.
	We look at the past and we think, oh, those Victorians, how ridiculous they were.
	know like we think they think the world was flat or something like that or you know they didn't they didn't know anything about antibiotics they didn't have any cell phones how ignorant oh no no they knew they knew a lot about human nature male nature female nature of the government they knew they built the whole civilization that we can't even remotely sustain and we sort of look down at the way oh primitive no this is repressed repressed repressed by god have you seen movies A little bit of repression would be a really, really wonderful thing.
	Have you seen Disney stars these days after they seem to turn about 18 in one second?
	Woo! Off goes the bra, out come the tits, and everyone is like, oh, that's my childhood that's there on a wrecking ball.
	I can't watch it anymore.
	Please, a little restraint would be a wonderful thing.
	But this knowledge is getting out there, and now...
	The women who sleep around, the knowledge is out there.
	Me, other people, millions of views, millions of downloads.
	People know this stuff now.
	And so now... When a man who's had any exposure to this show, in any appreciable amount, goes to a woman and hears that she's been loose, you know, she's played pretty fast and loose on the field and so on, he might want to sleep with her, but he's not going to marry her.
	Because that's just putting a gun to your head.
	Because she is going to divorce your ass, and she's going to be crazy, and she's going to be unstable, and she's going to be a bad mom, and she's going to take you to family court, and she is going to destroy your life.
	She might even end your life, because you might get jailed for non-support of alimony and child support.
	You go to jail. Maybe you get killed in jail.
	I don't know. Oh, Lord.
	So this knowledge has been suppressed since the 60s.
	Don't slut shame. It's like, I don't care about slut shaming.
	I care about statistics. And women who've slept with a lot of guys will divorce you almost for sure.
	And it's not like all the women, like the 15% or so who won't divorce you, it's not like you have a great marriage anyway.
	I mean, you may pray for divorce.
	You may pray to be at one of those dinner tables and swallow the piece of unpeeled shrimp and have it lodged in your esophagus and choke your way into a happier place.
	I don't know.
	But now the knowledge is out there.
	So these, I mean, I'm sorry.
	Like I feel I'm angry at your friends who sleep around or your ex-friends who sleep around.
	But I also feel very sorry for them because they've been lied to.
	And men have been lied to.
	As if women can just do this with no repercussions like we never evolved as a species based on sexual restraint.
	Civilization itself is sexual restraint.
	Nothing more, nothing less.
	Everything else is window dressing.
	Right. I mean, yeah, like I completely agree with you.
	And I remember earlier in the conversation we were talking about how like fire and water, how like dysfunctional people...
	Repel functional people.
	As soon as I've changed, not my personality, but I've been stronger in my values, I've been called puritanical.
	People will not talk to me anymore.
	And I'm like, why?
	I have better relationships with better people, but the people I used to talk to that are deemed normal in society...
	Won't talk to me.
	And another thing I've been reading is I think you and Lauren Southern did like a presentation or one of your videos about like statistics and how women with less sexual partners are more likely to have like better marriages.
	She's done a great presentation on that.
	Yeah, I think you talked about it or touched on it too.
	But I was just wondering, do you think I have a chance?
	Having a good marriage?
	Yeah, absolutely. You've only slept with one guy.
	Yeah, I just feel kind of bad.
	Yeah, good. I'm not here to talk you out of that.
	I think that's good, you know? No, no, no.
	I just feel like this is just...
	I don't mean to be like, you know...
	What's the word? I don't mean to be whining right now, but I just feel like, damn, I sort of screwed up my entire life.
	No, no, I wouldn't put it that way at all.
	I wouldn't put it that way at all.
	You had what I would consider an enormous wake-up call.
	Oh, yes, sir. Definitely.
	Yeah. And there are people in my life on the dysfunctional side that will have wake-up calls where they'll be in life-and-death situations and they'll just ignore them.
	And so to me, I think a lot of times those people have just been like, oh, that's normal.
	Like, yeah, that happens. That happens.
	You had a wake-up call and I think you are using it in the best possible way.
	And it could have been a whole lot worse.
	And I think your life...
	I was skeptical when you said earlier there's a positive thing to it.
	But I think you made a great case and I can completely understand that your life is going to be better as a result of this because...
	It has been...
	I mean, that was a hell of a close call.
	And it is the kind of thing, you know, the heart attack that scares you into exercising and eating well.
	You know, you could end up living a lot longer than if you'd never had the heart attack.
	So I think that you could still make a wonderful wife and mom, more so now than ever.
	And you've made better decisions than your friends.
	You made one crazy decision here that's turned a light on in your whole social environment, your culture.
	Your family, your education, the arts that is around you, the music that is around you that is constant, like pump and grind bullshit designed to spread STDs.
	The music industry is like the typhoid Mary of the rising pregnancy and STD scares that go on among the young.
	And this idea that you can simply indulge the flesh at no cost to your soul, for want of a better word, is something that has been illuminated within you.
	And now you, through this call, is helping to illuminate hundreds of thousands, if not millions of other people.
	And you can still be a wonderful mother, a wonderful wife, a great friend.
	And you can look at this as that which propels you towards the light from a recoil.
	Sometimes we head towards the light because we love the light.
	Other times we head towards the light because we fear the darkness.
	Either way, whatever gets you to the light, it's a good thing.
	Yes, sir. And I've been getting more involved with...
	Politically, I've been reading and I plan on maybe publishing to YouTube my thoughts on modern day feminism and my problem with it.
	And I've been reading and researching and listening to you and listening to people like Lauren Southern and Jordan Peterson and all the rebel media, people like that that are skeptics.
	And I sort of felt like all of these little puzzle pieces, I used to listen to these people, but...
	I never really got it.
	Listen, I'm sorry to interrupt you.
	There's only one person you need to listen to.
	It's not me. Just so you know.
	It's not even you. Who is it?
	It's Elvis. What?
	I have no voice tonight, but I'm going to do it anyway.
	You ready? You don't like crazy music.
	You don't like rocking bands.
	You just want to go to a movie show and sit there holding hands.
	You're so square.
	Baby, I don't care.
	You don't like hot rod racing or driving late at night.
	You just want to park where it's nice and dark.
	You just want to hold me tight.
	You're so square.
	Baby, I don't care.
	You don't know any dance steps that I knew.
	No one else could love me.
	I like you do, do, do, do, do.
	I don't know why my heart flips.
	I only know it does.
	I wonder why I love you, baby.
	I guess it's just because you're so square.
	Baby, I don't care.
	Be square! Be square!
	You know, just be square.
	Listen to Elvis. He's got it all.
	All you need to know is in the Church of P. I do.
	I listen to, like, 50s music.
	I listen to country. I listen to, like, the Everly Brothers.
	And I get called puritanical and grandma and all that crap.
	Yeah. No, I like that.
	You know, this guy is like, you know, so you want to be affectionate.
	You don't care about hot rod racing and crazy music.
	Yeah. Great!
	You know, I mean, that's BB Square.
	You know, Square is the, like, it's the foundation where we actually put civilization and build it.
	So, Square is good.
	Conservatism is the new counterculture.
	I will steal that line from Paul.
	Oh, yeah! Paul Joseph Watson!
	Yeah? I love them.
	Infowars. Yeah, no, I was Square, and then I started hanging out with bad people.
	Because I used to get, like, made fun of for being, like, Stuck up and people are like, you're prudish.
	You're puritanical.
	You're going to get mad at me for doing what I want to do.
	Obviously, the whole modern feminism brainwashing women and believing they can just throw their...
	You know, throw sex any which way and see if it sticks.
	And they just tell women they can be sluts.
	They tell men to stop being men.
	And so it's sort of like a huge rebellion now of mine.
	Like, I'm just rebelling against everyone I know in my life.
	I'm going my own way.
	And people are like, what the hell?
	Like, what is going on with you?
	And here's my last piece of advice.
	This is really, really well put.
	My last piece of advice is this.
	People have been using their penises and vaginas to choose their partners.
	And I hate to say it, but you have to go deeper.
	It's not your vagina that should choose your lover, it's your ex.
	You pick your future boyfriend in consultation with your future children.
	Not your vagina, but your ex.
	It's not your penis but your balls who should choose your sex partner, right?
	It's the sperm, not the ejaculate, so to speak.
	And when you have that perspective, not is this person hot, you know, which is your vagina talking or whatever, but is this person going to be a good dad?
	Is he going to be a good provider? Is this person going to be a good mom?
	Are they going to be a good friend? Are they going to be a great partner?
	You let... Your kids, your future kids, choose your partner.
	Now, if you don't want kids, you're too old, whatever, then just let your values choose.
	But when we don't have sexual restraint, when we don't tie sexuality to morality, it's not like we then end up not making decisions.
	We just end up making bad decisions.
	We don't become free.
	By not tying sexuality to values, we end up being enslaved.
	Enslaved to the flesh, enslaved to penicillin, enslaved to the welfare state, enslaved to whatever, enslaved to a woman through the family court system.
	And it's not freedom to let go of discipline.
	Letting go of discipline is slavery.
	The way that we retain freedom is through discipline and self-restraint.
	Right. All right.
	I got to move on. We got a big 12,000 more callers, but useful call?
	Helpful? Positive? Oh, very useful.
	Thank you. I don't even know how I can thank you other than me going and living a good life using your advice, but I thoroughly appreciate what you do.
	For our world. I feel like you and the people that are going against the establishment are going to change our world into something more positive.
	Well, thank you. Just sent me some pictures of your happy kids.
	And I really appreciate your time tonight, Kristen.

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