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July 13, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
37:10
The Secret Life of a Psychopath
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Thanks so much for getting my call.
I am a freshman at NYU and it's been sort of crazy for me this past year because I felt like I've kind of lived my life in a bubble but you know I was sort of aware of it.
I was in a private school around people who were great or supportive and
I'm now suddenly just being thrown into this entirely different environment where I went to public schools, I went to other private schools, and I'm almost at a point where I feel that everything that I'm learning from you about liberty and all this crazy stuff is just
Becoming entirely fused with my my social my social climate and it's it's it's becoming so confusing to me that I'm all Something but one of the things that I have become to value incredibly since finding you and other people like you is how honesty and Just honestly in general and being true to yourself is so important and I
I've never been in an environment where I feel so many people say things that they don't really believe themselves to be true.
Everybody's insecure on an intellectual level, especially in college, because everybody is so frightened by people who are smarter than them, and it's just an incredibly competitive atmosphere and everybody's so, you know, they're trying to measure themselves up against each other.
And I really do not care for this paradigm.
And I've almost get to the point where, you know, you mentioned this when you talk to other people who you're trying to convince of this way of thinking is you have that intellectual triage, you know?
Yeah.
For me, I do that triage so much quicker than it happens instantaneously.
It It's not, I don't even have to listen to them talk about their political views.
I just know that if they're the kind of person who would believe in something that they know isn't true, but they believe it in any ways because everybody else believes it to be true, that I'm just not going to waste my time with these people.
I've gotten to the point where I feel like that is literally most people, and I'm totally alone, I can't relate to anybody.
The only people I can relate to are people who are my professors who are intelligent.
The reasonably more intelligent ones I can't relate to.
Even my younger professors, who even when they're teaching, don't even I mean, my macroeconomics classes and my philosophy class, both of them, and it's such a shame that, you know, finding you that the subjects I become interested in are economics and philosophy, but they just get totally shit on and it's totally not recognizable as subjects in college.
I can't, I can't, there's no, What do you mean by excellence?
They're only concerned about aptitude and excellence.
What do you mean by excellence?
It's, you know, I mean, all my life I've been trying to, you know, try to find an alternative education, something that I feel will cultivate the parts of me something that I feel will cultivate the parts of me that I feel need to be cultivated because, you know, school, you know, I got good grades in school because I cheated on
I got good grades in school because I cheated on all my tests, but that's not because I was actually cheating.
I was cheating because I had a good fucking memory.
I, I, that's the reason why I got grades.
I have a photographic memory.
Whenever I'd take a fucking test, I just read the thing off my head and I'll forget about it the day later.
They, they don't, The only way I can internalize the skills I learn in school is if I'm doing something creative simultaneously.
I've been taking semesters abroad and high school.
I'm just so fortunate that I don't live in the underclass of society.
I don't depend on the state for my well-being.
I have parents who are here to provide for me.
I'm not graduating with student debt.
The system is so rotten to the core that even if you're entirely financially afloat, you still can't even get what you want and what you need out of it.
The only way I could is if there was a paradigm shift and that if everybody changes.
I'm calling you this morning.
It's 10 a.m.
Sunday.
That's not the time of day that a college kid is awake.
Um, I'm just, you know, last night I almost felt like I had some sort of crisis because I'm trying to reach out to people who, who, who feel the same way.
And it's not, they don't have to be into liberty or freedom or anything.
It's this, it's a certain personality trait that I'm looking for.
And I feel like the people who have this certain personality trait might be willing to accept this way of thinking.
But, um, so.
My personal issue is, I guess also being at NYU, it's weird because there's so many women.
It's like 65% to 35% guys, I think.
And I don't know, it's funny, you were talking about your friend who plays squash, because I also play squash.
And I also, I don't know, my relationship towards women is strange, but Since it's so dense with women, the gender roles almost begin to switch a little.
I almost feel like I'm the one being chased after.
It's kind of a strange dynamic how being at a school where The genders are mixed up like this.
People begin to begin to think differently and become more jealous.
And so this is, you know, where I'm at right now.
I'm just trying to, you know, contact this girl.
I don't have, you know, any particular motivation behind it.
I don't really care if she rejects me completely.
I'm just totally willing to take whatever she is willing to allow to me.
Or if she, I don't want to do anything she doesn't want.
But like, you know, I find that she's a person who has the similar personality to me that will be willing to accept my abrasiveness.
Because ever since I have embraced this philosophy, I can't talk to people without coming off as being incredibly, you know, cold or brutish.
And just the way I only speak in arguments.
Do you feel that?
I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same way.
Well, I mean, I will speak in questions usually for the most part.
Yeah, I've heard it.
I was in sales, and sales is about asking questions, right, before providing solutions.
So you hear me listen to calls, I'll spend like at least half an hour, usually if I can, just asking a bunch of questions.
So you were saying that you were a warmer person, but philosophy has made you colder?
I mean, I've really felt that.
It does not sound believable to me, but I could be wrong.
It was just a match made in heaven for my personality.
I've always been this way.
I don't know if you're familiar with MBTI.
A lot of it's bullshit, but my personality type is INTJ, I think.
And why do you think that is your personality type?
I mean, I know that I have taken tests, but, you know, the tests that they have are, again, they ask a lot of questions that are based off of stereotypes, but I feel, you know, I've done research, I've looked all that up, and... Sorry, what I mean is, do you think that there were any childhood experiences that may have contributed to certain personality aspects?
Oh, no, no, no.
That's the strangest thing, is because I had one of the most
caring environments as a child and you know, whenever I hear you on, on, on YouTube, I do think a lot about my parents and I'm very, I'm so appreciative of how the environment they, they brought me up in, especially since, you know, they each had their own, um, uh, way of doing it.
I feel that my mother, you know, She taught me moral responsibility.
Well, my father was more of taught me physical responsibility.
He really wanted to raise me in sort of like a Lord of Flies state of nature type environment where it's easy for me to get in trouble and hurt myself.
So I think I grew up as a more responsible person in that respect.
But you know, I feel like all the problems I have with my personality and Uh, relating with other people is innate.
And I feel like it was just, I was born that way.
And one of the reasons why I came to Liberty was because, um, I don't know.
I, I feel like I'm a psychopath.
I know you talk about sociopaths and psychopaths all the time.
And it, it's strange because.
You know, to describe my condition, I feel like I'm a person who doesn't experience emotions as sensations, as in I can only experience an emotion I can articulate.
Does that make any sense to you?
Yeah, no, I think I get where you're coming from.
So you can recognize an environment where some emotional response would be there and you can say, well, this would be my emotional response and maybe you can feel it a bit there.
But is it my understanding that it doesn't sort of spontaneously arise within you and then you manage it?
Is that right?
Yeah.
And, you know, there are times when I feel that I'm supposed to feel a certain way or even a lot of – even growing up too as well, I feel like there are a lot of things that were programmed emotional responses I feel like there are a lot of things that were programmed emotional responses that I sort of unlearned and I was I shouldn't be jealous here.
That's not right.
Or, you know, I shouldn't feel sad in this situation.
But, you know, as I've grown up... Sorry to interrupt, but for you it's more like, is it like learning a foreign language?
Well, that's not the word for cat in Spanish, so I should learn a different word for cat in Spanish.
Is it sort of like that?
What's learning what?
Well, so when you say, like, I shouldn't feel jealous in this situation or I shouldn't feel this in this situation, is it more like learning a language?
Like, so if I'm trying to learn Spanish, right, and I'm trying to find the grammar and the syntax and so on, it's not like a moral thing, it's just, have I learned the right response in Spanish for this particular situation?
Does that make sense?
Does that make sense?
It's spot on, especially everything I learn, everything that's social.
It gets processed by my brain the same way as if I process anything I've been reading from you.
It all gets filtered from the same super critical, skeptical lens.
And it's just this, my brain is just this rational computer thing that just takes everything in from outside world and tries to organize it.
And learning things naturally.
There's no difference with social norms and emotions with me.
But there are of course some things.
I'm not totally void and crazy.
No, I don't think so.
And I got lots of corrections after I did my series on sociopathy from people who said I'm a sociopath and I'm actually a nice guy.
I'm a psychopath.
I'm actually like, I'm not an axe murderer.
This is a stereotype and blah, blah, blah.
So I mean, I fully accept to be corrected on, on that instance as well.
So I, you know, I don't think you're crazy or anything like that.
I fully accept what it is that you're saying.
And I do apologize to the people who I mischaracterize in that way because it's not fair.
Of course.
Right.
So, but go ahead.
Um, yeah, but I'm just looking for a way for, I don't know, I just feel like I don't speak the same language as everybody.
That's it, really.
The only people who I can understand are adults.
It's the thing.
I feel like I carry the burden of everybody else's insecurity.
That's what it feels like to me.
Tell me what you mean by that.
It's weird because some...
How kids grow up, you know, they take other people's judgment seriously and then they incorporate that into their, you know, who they think they are personally.
And that's, and they, over time, you know, I see kids who become insecure.
through peer pressure and even, you know, a lot of subtle things that they might not even notice.
And it's almost a lot of it subconscious as well.
But, you know, I have a shield.
I'm totally, I'm confident.
I'm not insecure.
I am.
Yeah, because I mean, other people's opinions, you will evaluate them, right?
I mean, it's not like you don't hear them.
But your evaluation is the gatekeeper, right?
And it doesn't just flow into you like, you know, if I spray a hose on you, you get wet.
But that's not the same with my opinions, right?
Like you'll evaluate them first.
And again, I'm not trying to tell you your experience.
I just, is that the way it works for you?
Say that again?
So it's not like wet spraying?
Well, so like, okay, so like if I, you know, if I slap you in the face, then Your face is going to get red.
You don't have a choice about that, right?
But if I say, you're a huh, whatever it is, right?
You're a great guy, you're a bad guy, you're a whatever, right?
Then you'll sort of evaluate that, but it doesn't sink into you the way that it seems to sink into other people, right?
Like the other people that hear a bunch of opinions are like, oh man, that's the way I am.
And it's almost involuntary.
But I think for you, there's like a gatekeeper for other people's opinions, which is one of the reasons why it's easier to stay more secure, because you don't just absorb them like a sponge in the rain.
Yeah, everybody's opinion has to be matched up against reality.
Anything somebody says to me, you know, I... Sorry to interrupt.
So what's missing, and I don't know if this is good or bad, to be honest with you, but I would say to you that... Can you imagine having someone in your life whose opinion you would trust to the point where you wouldn't have to evaluate what they were saying?
No.
Right.
So what's missing is vulnerability, right?
And now vulnerability is a double-edged sword, right?
Because if you've got bad people around you, being vulnerable is like having people train you to punch yourself in the face every day, right?
But if you could – one of the things that's a benefit of vulnerability is if you have people in your life that you trust to the degree that you don't have to evaluate what they're saying, it saves you a lot of processing, right?
Because they're just going to tell you the truth.
They're going to be close to you.
They're going to have your best interest at heart.
You trust that, right?
So I just wanted, you know, vulnerability.
If you only focus on the strength of that kind of distance, which I admit, I envy sometimes, right?
But if you don't focus on some of the things that you're missing, then it's going to be hard to consider adjusting it.
Does that make any sense?
I totally get what you're saying about vulnerability and it's weird because I think the worst thing about it is that the one thing that usually does get me emotional is, you know, emotional reactions in other people because, you know, I might not be able to reason how I feel, but at least I can assume that what this other person is feeling is real.
And I can at least have that be a point for me, you know, something as a point of reference.
So at least I have some cardinality for my emotional planning.
I don't know whatever you want to think of that.
But, um, but what you're saying about vulnerability, it's weird because when I'm around people who, who feel uptight, you know, everybody wants to impress me.
Everybody wants to, Give me a compliment about something.
I don't really care.
I don't really want to be impressed or, or anything like that.
I just want somebody to give me something of value.
Obviously that's, I'm the capitalist, but, um, uh, I just have this urge to embarrass myself.
Isn't that weird?
I just have the urge to make, to do something so outrageous and crazy that they won't feel bad about being around me or they won't feel uncomfortable having feelings inside themselves that They don't feel comfortable expressing on me, because every person I'm around, I know that there's something that they want to say to me that they aren't saying, and I know it's because I'm either grumpy or cold-looking or intimidating, and I know that's the reason why that they aren't.
But I just have this urge to... Well, the other thing, too, is that, like, if you have a distant, emotionally distant nature, that's like a gravity well for some people.
So, for instance, if they had distant parents that they were trying to reach, they hook into you and they want something from you, but it's not to do with you in particular.
It's just due to their own history, right?
So, if you're aloof, then some people will really be wanting to contact you.
They really want something from you, right?
And it's like, what are you bothering me with this stuff for?
I'm just being me.
I'm not trying to reject you or anything, but that kind of stuff makes some people, and some women in particular, kind of nutty, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I'm not... it's weird because if people met me, they... I'm a very... even though I'm introverted, I'm very outgoing and crazy and fun-loving and whatever.
It's like, it's the classic.
This is... it happens a lot with psychopaths I've been reading and, you know, apparently a lot of people who have deal with their emotions, can behave in a certain way that most people would find restrictive, but we aren't restricted by it, so we're very uninhibited.
I feel very uninhibited.
I don't know.
And fearless, right?
Like you would appear fearless to some people, right?
Because, you know, there's a lot about, you know, and I don't know, you know, you say you're a psychopath, I have no idea what, I mean, I'm just going with your terminology, right?
So there's people who are like, Jesus, I'd love to be less concerned with what other people think.
I'm not too bad with that, to be honest with you.
I try to really focus on reason and evidence, and some people think that's great, some people don't.
I really don't get bothered too much by what other people think, but that's something that I kind of grew into, and it took 20,000 bucks of therapy and shit like that to make that happen.
So if you're kind of born with that, then there's a kind of independence and autonomy and freedom.
from the snares and hooks of other people who try to, you know, a lot of people will constantly try to control other people through positive and negative feedback.
And if you're kind of sailing above all of that, you know, if that's like waves against the side of a battleship, I think that for a lot of people that's kind of intoxicating.
Like even that as a possibility is like, wow, I'd like me some of that.
But that's only because they're looking at the upside, right?
Not the downside, right?
Which is that You know, if you have a baby that wants to spend all day in your lap, you might get a little annoyed, right?
There may be other downsides to it that people aren't seeing as much, right?
Or maybe you're not seeing as much.
If there was a downside, I always think of this on a case-by-case basis.
I have trouble articulating all this in an abstract way, but I don't know.
I do, and that's kind of why I'm calling you, but you're right that I'm not ensnared by a lot of the bullshit.
But because I'm not trapped by all that bullshit, I feel like I've just trapped myself with my own bullshit.
Well, you told me the downside already, right?
And look, maybe another time we can talk more about your childhood.
I have some skepticism, which might just be a confirmation bias.
But you already told me the downside.
I don't know if you heard yourself, but you said, yeah, there's this girl, she wants something from me.
I don't care whether she gets it or not.
I don't care whether I get with her or not.
But that's blah, blah, blah.
You had this little brief aside about a girl who was around, a woman who was around, and you were indifferent to the outcome.
Yeah, and you're touching on another thing that is another issue of mine is that I, it's, it's also related to my emotional issue and it's that I, I have trouble finding what makes me happy.
You know, when, if I'm unsure about something and I feel like I can't commit a hundred percent to
It's hard because, you know, if I'm an entrepreneur and I'm trying to start a company, I make sure that, you know, I calculate my return on investment.
I look at what, you know, prices are, obviously is what helps us allocate resources and All these other things that guide you into making a good decision.
I feel that all of these things, I don't know where they are.
I don't know what these things are for social interactions between people.
I don't, but again, that's not totally true because that's the reason why I'm calling her and specific because I feel that, you know, We might be able to relate on some levels.
I mean, not entirely.
I mean, I'm definitely my own case, but you know, I, my intuition tells me that there are some issues that she might be dealing with that I might share and that, you know, that helps me.
But, um, I just, it's, it's strange.
I don't know why she would ignore me.
Hmm.
Right.
And I mean, so again, I really don't want to tell you your experience.
I'm just trying to make sure I sort of understand where it is that you're coming from.
I think I understand.
And I appreciate the strength that you have in this perspective.
And that sort of goes without saying, right?
I mean, you're aware of that too, right?
But I think in vulnerability, I think there's two areas that you're going to be limited, which if you wanted to start working on, I would suggest.
The first is that vulnerability is very important.
I say this as a guy who's ill.
I've never actually been ill before.
I've never spent a night in a hospital.
I've never broken a bone.
I've never had an operation or anything like that.
I've been like a robot, like a meat and flesh strength robot.
But there is vulnerability around getting sick.
There's vulnerability around having kids.
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He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S.
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Right.
So that's but but as you as you get older, if you want to get married, if you want to have kids and so on, and eventually you're going to get old and sick and die.
Right.
I mean, so so vulnerability is not a bad thing to start exploring as a possibility.
And vulnerability means deferring your judgment to someone else's, which I know is kind of incomprehensible.
You're so smart.
You've got a photographic memory.
You know, you're obviously philosophical.
You're you know, you're healthy, attractive, intelligent, fit and all that kind of stuff.
So the idea of deferring your judgment to someone else is hard, I think, to to understand.
But boy, to offload processing is really important.
You know, having a graphics card that can produce the movie rather than using up your whole CPU.
Basically having a dual-core, a relationship like a dual-core processor.
In fact, multi-core, right?
So having the multi-threading of a relationship where you can offload your processing.
In other words, you can say to your wife, You let me know if I'm doing anything weird and then you just go do what you're doing.
You don't have to keep evaluating yourself because your wife is watching your back and you're watching her back.
And because you can see other people a lot easier than you can see yourself, it's a much more efficient and much more effective way to sort of go through life and it gives your mind a chance to rest from some of the overheated stuff it does in and out and analyzing.
So vulnerability I would sort of recommend as something worth exploring.
But the second, which is kind of related and perhaps even more important, is the honesty, right?
I mean if you're calling yourself a psychopath, one of the problems you have is don't you have to kind of pretty it up for the normal people?
When you interact with people, you can't genuinely express your experience because your experience is a lot of boredom, contempt, indifference, frustration, confusion but you kind of have to Speak the Hallmark cards you don't really feel, and I think that may interfere with your ability to connect, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
That... I almost want to get, like, something, and the tattoo seems almost just like a metaphor, but I just want some stamp on me that so that when I meet someone that I don't have to do some sort of explaining.
Empathy down for maintenance.
Not sure when we'll be back up.
I don't know.
To provide an example, this year when we were all introducing ourselves on the floor in our dorm, the story I used to introduce myself, I forget what question I was asked, but I was talking about how I lit a squirrel on fire when I was a kid.
Classic psychopath story.
And it was funny.
Everybody laughed.
You know, it was me prettying up my My identity and I really, that's the thing that troubles me is that I put myself out there.
I, I do try so hard to, you know, be an individual and show people who I am and everybody appreciates it too.
And I'm grateful for that, but everybody just seems too afraid to, to do anything with me.
It's weird.
I can't, Well, we'll see.
Usually I find, you know, there are a few exceptional individuals who I really enjoy spending my time with, but other than that, I feel like I can do okay by myself.
That's another problem is that when I get depressed and I push people away, they get offended by it and it's like, no, no, no, I have to do this.
It's how I reprogram myself when I'm lonely.
I don't know.
No, I understand that.
There is of course some of the isolation and some of the loneliness that does occur with that distance.
I praise you for your honesty, which is that you are telling people that you lit a squirrel on fire when you were a kid.
That's almost like having a tattoo in terms of Yeah, it's a very interesting conversation and I really do want to appreciate you calling in to talk about that.
I mean, whether you know it or not, I think what you just did is a huge deal.
should.
But yeah, so again, I'm sorry because I do actually – I'm so hungry.
I'm actually not eating my own toast at just about any moment and I apologize.
Me too.
Me too.
I really – Yeah, it's a very interesting conversation and I really do want to appreciate you calling in to talk about that.
I mean whether you know it or not, I think what you just did is a huge deal.
It's a huge fucking deal and I'm really honored that you chose to talk to me about this stuff because it's – there's probably not a lot of places where you can get kind of feedback that is not going to be weird.
I think this show is one of them.
But sorry, I interrupted you.
You were saying?
You're praising for me, but it's the same thing happening over again.
It's just me telling how I feel, and there's no fear in it.
I appreciate you.
You're saying things that are important and that are special to me, and I need that.
You are a valuable source that is different from other people, and I probably wouldn't get shit feedback.
I get that this wasn't particularly terrifying for you to do, and I get that.
But what I mean is that the praise of being open to the possibility that there may be A downside that looking in terms of vulnerability and honesty, you know, if you start to explore that stuff, that's going to be challenging.
And it's good, you know, because don't you need some challenges?
I mean, having this kind of fluid intelligence, having this lack of empathy, it really does make things pretty fucking easy, right?
As you say, you sailed through school with a photographic memory and you've got your parents paying for everything.
You know, don't you want something that you can really sink your teeth into, like a real challenge that's going to work you and make you sweat?
I mean, that's great stuff, right?
I mean, you don't want to be the guy who keeps going to the weight lift in the five-pound pink tassel weights all his career, right?
You want to up those to the point where you're doing some sort of cling-on forehead vein pop and stuff, right?
So, if you're interested in exploring sort of the vulnerability and the honesty stuff and maybe exploring ways in which you can tap into some empathy, I mean, you can talk to a psychologist, a therapist at school.
I'm sure you get free stuff there if you need to.
That, I think, would be a very exciting challenge and I think would be worth looking into for you.
Again, if I were in your shoes, I'd explore it just as a challenge that would be very interesting and different from what I've tried before.
Thanks so much.
I'll probably do that.
And that's the thing.
I'll go to a counselor.
I'll talk to them.
Yeah, just one last thing.
Yeah, I'll go to a counselor.
I'll talk to them.
It's nice to get what's on the inside, outside.
But I still have a drive to be counseled by someone.
Being at a point where I feel alpha or above everybody else, and I'm not trying to be egotistical.
I prefer different, but I...
I just want to find somebody who I can be somewhat submissive to in a way, but someone who I can look up to.
You know, you're definitely that figure.
You're one of them for me.
Um, you know, and it's nice getting to talk to you in person too, but um, yeah, even people who aren't intellectually on my, on that level can still have that, that effect on me, but I'll try to, I'll do some of that counseling.
I'll try.
I'm going to keep on bugging this girl.
She can tell me to fuck off if I'm annoying her.
Let me know how it goes.
Drop me a line if you like.
Everybody, of course, can always email operations at freedomainradio.com.
Mike is doing a fantastic job, particularly now, adding massive value to the conversation.
I'm so incredibly grateful for his support and his friendship and his Massive work.
I mean just when you email him remind him to take a break from his work because he's Pedaling like a hamster on a triple espresso on a wheel that is rolling down a hill in a lightning storm at Mach 12 so But yeah, so drop drop us a line Let us know how it's going and you might want to talk about your self-diagnosis of psychopathy and ask them if they've had any experience with that or you know if they can refer to someone who does And even find out if it's true or valid.
I mean, I don't know, of course, right?
Yeah.
But yeah, so keep me posted if you can.
I think it's a very interesting thing that you're going to embark on.
And I certainly wish you the best with it.
And I hope that it, you know, gives you a wider heart and a more spontaneous experience and the capacity for a little more, you know, love and trust and vulnerability, which can be a weird thing, but very, very important, I think so.
And thanks, James, of course, as always for running these shows.
Oh, my God.
I mean, it's just fantastic compared to me having to sort of Switch back and forth all the time is great.
Thanks again.
If you'd like to help out the show, I'm of course going to have a somewhat diminished work capacity over the next couple of months, but then I believe I will be back stronger, leaner with a titanium chest.
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Again, it's annoying patchwork socialism.
I really appreciate everybody's support and I will try and get the emails back to people who've emailed to me.
It might take me a little while, but I've read them all and I hugely, hugely appreciate it.
And I would also like to thank the people who managed to downvote my cancer announcement video.
That was just particularly delicious just in terms of people who are just going to be resolutely negative no matter what.
That is actually quite liberating for me.
So thank you everyone for those 12 or 14 people who managed to find themselves able to do that.
That really was quite impressive.
But have yourselves a wonderful week everyone.
I will talk to you soon.
All the best.
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