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July 13, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:03:06
Is South Africa Headed For Civil War? | Steve Hofmeyr and Stefan Molyneux
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Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Freedom Aid Radio.
I'm here with Steve Hoffmeyer.
He is a South African musician, songwriter, actor and television host with over 2 million CDs sold in multiple South African music awards.
You can check out his website at stevehoffmeyer.com.
Thank you very much.
Great honour to meet you, although it's across the Atlantic.
Thank you very much for, in the last year and a half, introducing us to The Alternative.
We fell for the same stories, the same polls, the same old mainstream media, until we got you.
And if you have a lot of friends all over the world, you certainly deserve them, and you have them in South Africa as well.
Well, thank you.
We like to think that the alternative media, given that the mainstream media is lies, the alternatives are actually what we call facts and truth.
So, very, very disturbing stuff coming out of South Africa and there does appear to be a media wall around what is going on, particularly with the white minority.
In South Africa.
I wonder if you could give people a sketch of what has happened since basically after 1994 the media switched off the light and said well Done and dusted our work here is done So all we need to do is move on to some other new leftist cause and there hasn't been really any circling back What is going on in the gets close to what quarter century now since the end of apartheid?
Well yeah, you're right.
Not just the media, the world of course.
We are the world's experiment.
We have the problems that you have now all over the world 30 or 40 years ago.
So the world would hate to be wrong about us.
And the media, especially the liberal media, would hate to be wrong about their little text tube baby called South Africa.
At some stage, there was a little minority building walls around their interests.
The world called it apartheid and killed it off.
Today, I think people are asking for the apartheid notes to see how do you build a wall?
I'm using the word metaphorically, of course, and people are asking that question in Great Britain.
They did it with Brexit.
They're doing it in Europe right now.
Of course, they did it uh a year ago when when when your election started so the whites have been in south africa since about 1652 and uh and the white were or the afrikaner those are my my tribe if i may call it has been in africa for about 136 years mostly as dutch german french and brits in a dutch or british colonies but it took the afrikaner 400 years and many wars against huge majorities to become independent when this
acute minority-built walls around their sovereign interests.
The world called it apartheid, which is well known.
In 1994, without their permission and power, the power and the self-determination were handed over to a massive black majority, whose presidents, all of them, inspired a black-on-white killing spree with race-based policies, with 114 extra apartheid-type laws.
That is more than during apartheid.
And threatening, of course, especially white farmers with land grabs.
They call it land appropriation, but without compensation.
Zimbabwe style, you must know it by now.
And our leaders, our cabinets, they sing songs that are war cries for bloodshed.
And, well, Steph, they won.
You know, they got the bloodshed.
We are the most violent country in the world, or at least in the top five.
We are also the rape capital of the world.
And combine those two in one country, we are shedding blood.
So if you are a minority, an extreme minority, I called this an acute minority just now, you feel it.
If you are subjected to the same murder rate of 30 out of 100,000 murders per year, you feel it if you're a minority.
So yeah, we are the murder rate capital of the world.
We are ruled in contravention of our independence and our Christian beliefs.
But we are also here as the world's sole example of what will happen to you, America, when you wake up one morning as a minority in your own land.
And I believe you're on that threshold right now.
and you wake up and you're not in control of your language.
You're not in control of your education and your heritage and your income and your values as a white or a Western American.
You and the USA are on that threshold right now.
Europe is a while away.
That explains the hospitality for the outsiders who do not want to integrate.
But, yeah, it's coming to a city near you.
So, in 1994, I was in my naive 20s, It was the early 90s I was thinking idealistically that we were working with reasonable folk here in Africa Please remember that the Africana or the poor as they like to call us when the world decolonized or Close all the colonies and went back to wherever they came from.
My little white tribe had nowhere to go.
We had been here too long.
We had changed the way our way of thinking of the world.
We even created our own language.
So yeah, I voted yes for this new South Africa.
My tribe is not happy about that when I say it.
I do say it proudly because I thought we were working with reasonable folk.
And that is what you do, of course, when you are young.
You are left.
You are wishful.
You are idealistic.
Why?
Because you're not taxed to death yet and you have no homestead, no family, no dependables.
In fact, it's a luxury to be left when life hasn't happened to you yet.
It has always astounded me how many folk stay left as they grow adult after the world has happened to them, even when they pay taxes.
So the day I came to realize that my yes vote in 1994 was a dagger in the heart of my culture and my people was the moment.
that the break-even plan in 1994 was abandoned.
Remember, the New South Africa was supposed to be a partnership of mutual sacrifices, which ended when one group decided that only theirs were real sacrifices.
That entitlement became the driving force behind what they like to call transformation, when nation-building and so-called democracies excluded minorities.
The day that employment became race-based and freebies and nepotism became our local currency as it is today.
We're doing typical African things at the moment.
We used to be the jewel of the world, not the continent.
The world, this is South Africa, used to be one of the richest countries in the world.
Today we are competing, I think, with Egypt for a third place.
We have a governing party defending hate speech in court.
We began targeting freedom of expression and association that day, 18 years ago.
I just knew we became the worst expression of Western pride ever, and that effectively in the richest country in the world.
We became a typical African state.
I hope it sums up, plus minus, what we've been through.
We started with high hopes.
Many of us believed the world, that they were right.
Today I tell the world, also in Europe, in the European Parliament, I can tell Americans as well, that us, me, the Afrikaner, even the South African, would never have subsidized terrorism in your countries.
Why did you do it to us?
We were sanctioned to death to bully that sovereignty from that minority and give everybody the vote.
By everybody, I'm not saying all citizens, because the non-white in South Africa at that stage was not a citizen, it was a subject, and he didn't pay taxes, he didn't do the army duty as the rest of us did.
That didn't matter to the world.
They had discovered the world democracy for them.
It was some sort of majoritarianism thing.
And if you were a lot of people, you had to rule the country.
And we had to sacrifice everything we had.
Yeah, so we're a bitter nation right now.
We are a tribe.
I'd like to clarify before we carry on, Steve, that we are South Africans as a nation.
I think, basically, geographically, because there's no consensual nation in South Africa.
My tribe is called the Afrikaner or the Boer Afrikaner, and we speak the language Afrikaans, which is a bit of a hybrid between, I suppose, German and Dutch.
A little bit of English in there, and a couple of local influences as well, which makes it an extremely beautiful language.
But people do get that wrong.
We are also African, I suppose, on the continent.
But when I get to Europe, they often refer to us as that man from that country, Africa, which of course it isn't.
This is the southernmost point of the continent, Africa.
I wanted to point out if we can start with the deep history which as you point out the Boers originally began to settle in South Africa in the 1650s, right?
So it's not wildly different from the people who came to America and it's not wildly out of step with American history and of course there is this pattern of why people come and settle a particular place and then invite lots of other groups in and then may end up as a minority within their own country And then there is this sort of diversity plus proximity equals war calculation that I've talked about on this show before.
A lot of the blacks who are currently in South Africa are there either because they wanted to come to South Africa because white rule was preferable to the rest of Africa.
I remember even back in the eighties having arguments with people saying, well if South Africa is so bad why are people risking being eaten by lions to cross through parks in order to get into South Africa, and also because, you know, medicine and food production and so on was of such high quality in South Africa that the black population that arrived also swelled enormously, which kind of goes against the, oh, it was just terrible oppression and so on.
If people are dying to get into the country, literally, and then their numbers are going up enormously within that country, it's a little bit different from the, you know, evil whites oppressing the native population narrative that we heard so much of.
Yeah, yeah, you know, we've been stampeded to death with that.
Firstly, the first point is very important.
Hey, I watched your previous videos, may I say, and you're well informed on South Africa.
Yeah, there was always a crowding towards South Africa as the last, almost, empire.
It's amazing how people will today punish colonization.
We have a word for it.
We call it decolonization.
But ironically, the whole decolonization process in South Africa is run in the language, English.
So you must understand what a big exercise in bigotry it really is.
Then later on, I must tell you, even today, We are not allowed to say that apartheid was good or any part of apartheid was good.
One of our very left-liberal politicians right now is being punished by the country for merely saying that some parts of colonialism was okay or preferable.
She's being killed for that.
She's crucified for that.
Well, I feel the same about Apartheid.
I'm pro-human rights, so I'm anti any human rights transgressions, and those that were during Apartheid need to be addressed, and I will never agree with those.
It must be said at this stage that on the other side of the line, during Apartheid, there were the equal amount of human rights transgressions, so I don't buy any of that.
For Apartheid to be bad-mouthed, you have to replace it with something superior, or better at least, and I'm afraid that is probably not going to happen soon.
The murder and rape rates which were exposed during the Truth and Reconciliation kind of organ they put out there to decide what was good and bad about the old South Africa, that was an embarrassment for the new South Africa because we would do anything that was an embarrassment for the new South Africa because we would do anything to have the mortality rate of The kind of country where the wealth of the country, which is really effectively all gone.
No, it's going to be a tough one.
Still, I'm not allowed even to say what I'm saying now.
There's a policy being passed right now that would probably criminalize everything I'm saying to you right now.
So we are not allowed to use the discriminating faculty that if you walk up to a Pepsi and a Coke in a fridge and you pick a Coke, you are discriminating against the Pepsi.
You and I know you are, but that's the way it is.
So today in South Africa, there are two kinds of racists, and I suppose I am one of them.
That is the person who distinguishes between races.
But I'm not the kind of race distinguisher who discriminates between.
I don't hate other groups or races or people.
I just want to be proud to mention mine every now and then.
And in South Africa, I suppose our lines, our differences are much deeper than anywhere else.
The clash of West and Africa did happen here and prolonged and stayed here because we had nowhere to go home to.
And of course, as long as cultural differences fall in along racial lines, It's gonna be impossible to pretend that we are one happy nation and racists don't exist.
So the question was apartheid.
Better?
It's not one we should address, but if you mean apartheid was not better, but apart from failing services, services, municipal shambles, sewage, toxic water running in the streets outside here, inadequate roads, electricity and state incompetence, credit ratings, skills deficits, state corruption, self-enrichment, educated, uneducated cadres, cadre deployment,
Global performance is nose diving, floundering peristals, shedding fuel, shedding water.
We have fuel shedding and load shedding, which means the power goes every now and then.
We have a 14% conviction rate in the most murderous country in the world.
We have a 30% pass rate.
A falling RAND, which is our currency, and a free-falling economy.
We have 100 more race-based laws, 140 more race-based laws.
We have scandalous education.
We have parliamentary barbarism.
You have to, for entertainment, watch our parliamentary meetings.
We have unemployment of 45%.
We have genocidal rape rates.
So, apart from all those, Steph, apart from all those, yes, I suppose, apartheid was not better.
Well, and this is, of course, one of the great challenges.
I was just looking up some statistics, and there is a strong communist element among some of the blacks in South Africa, which comes out of the somewhat underplayed, to put it as nicely as possible, somewhat underreported or underplayed communism of Nelson Mandela.
But, of course, in Zimbabwe they pursued this communist philosophy.
They appropriated land from productive white farmers, There was slaughters and attacks against the whites and of course they ended up like all of these experiments do in a sort of bottomless hole of misery and I just looked up the Bloomberg's misery index right that's 2017 inflation and unemployment outlooks as you point out South Africa one of the richest countries in the world is now second
in the world in Bloomberg's misery index and my concern is well I wish it was just one right but there's so many concerns but one particular concern that I have is the question is sort of eating your seed crop right so to what degree do you think the existing government in South Africa since the end of apartheid has been consuming the existing riches and creating this artificial
maintenance even if it's a somewhat of a decline artificial maintenance of a standard of living and when they run out of you know like the kid who inherits the money and and looks like he's having a grand old lifestyle because he's burning through existing capital when he runs out there is generally a very sharp downward turn Yeah, that is the problem.
You know, you have to really concentrate very hard to take one of the richest countries in the world and be granted to you basically on a tray with great infrastructure, a lot of riches.
And which will now be unsanctioned.
You get the unsanctioned country back, the country with its real free potential.
And 21 years later, you have not put a single date in the unemployment rate, which is still at 45%, especially under the youth.
But that is devastating.
I have a list of the things that we That we probably have to own up to.
And I'll get through it a little bit later on.
But you're quite right.
If it's still, if the unemployment rate, you know, you can bring anything else.
If the unemployment rate is unhealthy, it's 45%, 21 years later, you have run out of excuses and nobody is going to believe a word.
At this stage the only people that have been enriched are a very very small elite few, mostly government contacts.
I'm even willing to say, although I believe the decay started on the beat of Nelson Mandela, he knew what was going on.
I'd like to think that he's still turning in his grave because he had the same amount of hope that we all had for this country.
I was honored to meet him in his house and we had a long chat about this.
Ironically, he wanted to speak about religion at that stage, which is tough for me because You know, we as young Christians were forced to go to army, and we were the last country on this continent to keep communism at bay for many, many years.
But of course, the moment we surrendered the sovereignty, the ANC came into power.
They weren't just a party, they were an organization.
In fact, they were a communist terrorist movement.
Some people say this whole impoverty of South Africa was inevitable.
Right.
Now, let's talk about The question of genocide.
A very powerful and loaded word which we don't want to toss around lightly.
I've read some of the arguments regarding that.
It's certainly not an official policy of the ANC but the death toll of whites is enormous.
I looked up of course more than 4,000 white farmers and this is very very important because of course like the Ukraine for Russia the white farmers are producing enormous amounts of food and I would imagine that Like Zimbabwe, if it gets taken over by the government, like as happened in sort of the general communist takeovers.
I'm thinking sort of Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and so on.
The government takes over!
This land and attempts to produce food it's going to fail and given the enormous population growth that has occurred as a result of Western and white farming techniques, Western and white farming expertise and land management and forethought and higher IQs and so on, once you end up with the government taking things over, the excess population that was sustained by this expertise is going to face starvation.
This is a very, very real issue that we've seen happen over and over again when communists take over and other places in Africa.
What do you think is going to happen if some of the arguments being put forward by the leaders in South Africa about Stealing, taking, expropriating, nationalizing, whatever you want to call it.
The forcible transfer of properties from highly competent people to the government.
What's going to happen to the food supply?
What's going to happen to peace in South Africa should this come about?
Yeah, and it seems inevitable.
And now that we've gone below junk status as a credit rating, which is something we've tried to avoid for many, many years, and it happens after we had freed, supposedly, South Africa.
This happens right now.
You're quite right.
Socialism, the kind that we experience here with the communists on this continent, have not saved a single country on this continent.
Socialism works only on countries that are ritual ready.
It certainly doesn't assist Any developing nations, and we are now effectively again a developing nation, and communism will kill us.
Socialists, many states as we have right now, will kill us off.
Of course, the very rich and the capitalists out there, they're bound.
They are, I suppose, pseudo-capitalists out there.
They still allow to enjoy a degree of free market, but they will be milked dry and they are milked dry.
You can contact any business in South Africa right now.
Many of the headquarters have moved abroad long ago because they know this is inevitable.
So yeah, everybody will become equally poor in this country and certainly not equally rich.
The other problem with a A continent like this, and South Africa is guilty of this, is that the African sidestepped Very important evolutionary steps that the West, the White West, had to go through, starting with Descartes and Enlightenment and then Renaissances and ending up with Industrial Age.
You need an industrial age to understand why capitalism is important.
And then you need an industrial age to understand that you only deserve really what you earn.
You can't get more than that or less than that.
But it seems to jump the communist boat, swim across to the capitalist ship, will sink the capitalist ship immediately.
There's like a bloodthirst hunger for money in this country.
And of course, that's the ground level.
And from the other side, the nanny state just keeps on producing.
We now have 16 million people on grants in South Africa, and we are only 50, 60 million people in South Africa.
So that's impossible.
That is impossible to keep up.
I wanted to get back to you to the other possible things that, now that we've pinpointed some of the problems in South Africa, it's quite easy to give you some of the other things.
We may also be the country with the most criminal records per election candidate.
You must understand that we took an entire prison of people and made them government.
We made them cabinet.
That includes Nelson Mandela.
We are probably the government most sued by their citizens.
We have the highest rate of fraudulent accreditations and doctorates.
You don't have to earn those, you just get them.
I think we also have one of the police services or armies with More generals than anybody else.
It just gets the doctorate, the accreditation or the rank.
We have the highest rate of interracial crime.
We probably have the highest circumcision mortality rate.
You will not believe how many people die in circumcision events that the Africans have out there.
The largest per capita parliament on the planet.
We may very well be that government.
We may also have the most expensive president per population elected.
We have the richest per capita government.
We may have a government per income with the largest consultant outsourcing and legal fees in the world.
At this stage my son serves as a security group that are called on first response basis often to protect the police or to go in with the police.
The police now It takes from the tax bill security services to secure them.
We secure police stations from the outside.
The police cannot secure themselves in our country.
That is a terrible place to be.
We are most probably the country with the most 21st century race-based laws in history.
They call them reparations.
We can get back to that later on.
We're one of the biggest declines in press freedom, dropping about four places on one of the similar indexes you read just now.
We have the highest politician victim murder rate on earth.
I'm saying we may have.
We certainly have the highest police victim murder rate on earth.
We murder our police at 10 times out of 100,000 more than what is the national average.
Please let me stop you for a while because you need to know in perspective that all races will murder and kill each other.
A 0 out of 100,000 murders per year is probably impossible.
The countries of our ancestors, if you're an Afrikaner or a Boer, let's make it Holland or France or Germany, they murder each other at 2 out of 100,000 and that's bad here and they lose their toys if that is the mortality rate.
Africa, the continent, the average murder rate per year out of 100,000 is about 10.
The world average is about six or seven, correct me.
South Africa is 30 out of 100,000 a year.
Our police is 50.
Cape Town is 60 out of 100,000.
The most motorist countries in the world are 90 out of 100,000, probably Venezuela or Colombia or those countries.
If you are a white farmer, In this world, in this country, South Africa, you will be murdered at 130 out of 100,000 murders.
And that was a good year because this year is going to be even worse.
Our murder rate in 2017 at this stage, you know, in the old days I kept these figures in my head because I could count them.
There was a farmer killed every week.
You can count that.
Now we're losing them five every seven days.
Two days ago on Tuesday, if I'm correct, we had three farm murders on the same day.
Nobody can keep up with that.
Let's just pause here for a second because I want people to understand what this means and we talked about it in terms of food production which is very abstract but Steve let's talk about what actually happens when this, this is not a simple robbery.
This is, it appears to me to be
I don't know if I would say politically motivated but certainly ideologically motivated in that there is a level of hatred and torture and viciousness in these kinds of murders that staggers the imagination and turns the stomach and you know if if people want to have a look and and it may be useful you know we need to see the facts of what's in the world do a search for South African farm murders click on images and see this is more than I want to take your wallet this seems to be motivated
by a deep-seated semi-communistic ideological class-slash-race hatred, and it's not just about the transfer of property.
Yeah, no, it's not.
Let me start by saying, of course, I can draw the correlation, I can't prove it, but if your leaders, if your president, if Nelson Mandela Or Jacob Zuma sings songs that are called Bring Me My Machine Gun, because that's how they're going to take care of the other South Africans.
There's a very famous song, Kill the Whites, They Are Rapists, which is factually incorrect, but a very popular song.
And those songs have been sung by all black South African, not just leaders, but presidents.
This is President Zuma on tape January 2012 saying, we are going to shoot them with the machine gun.
They are going to run.
You are Boer, we are going to hit them and you're going to run.
Shoot the Boer.
This is the president of a country being caught on tape singing a song about genocidal intent.
That's exactly it.
So add to that your race-based laws, 114 race-based laws, where almost a million South Africans have emigrated to other countries.
The majority of them are my people.
I'm extremely fortunate that I have such a pathetic government, because now I can tour the world and see my people in America, I can see them in Canada, in Australia, in New Zealand, I see them in Dubai, I see them in Europe, because my people have scattered.
You know what it's like to be a white father in South Africa?
Sit down with my children, like other fathers, and talk about the future.
I can't ask them, what would you like to become?
I can't even be joyful when they say they want to study because even if they got the highest grades in their class, they will have to stand in their queue of people with very low pass rates as long as they are not white.
It is also the black people and the brown people in South Africa who go around singing, you know, but we must love each other and we should all be equal and just, you know, we should all be South Africans.
Well, it's easy for you to say if you can go home tonight and have a chat to your son about the future.
I can't.
And that is it.
So what happens is that... Let's just get the elephant out of the room, and that is that people blame socio-economic circumstances for these attacks.
But that has never been the case.
Not even those that are caught are found to be poor.
Or poverty is not the problem here.
In fact, if it was, they'd really rob the house as well.
They'd take more than the cell phone.
But at most of these murders, very little He has stolen the night of the murder.
Now, I have sat in court holding the hands of 16, 17-year-old girls that were tied up at 12 o'clock.
Their boyfriends were tied up at 12 o'clock.
And then these girls were raped in front of those gentlemen until the sun came up.
Even while they were enjoying a barbecue, those barbecues would be Enjoy it by the rapists.
We of course don't call them rapists and murderers.
We call them robbers.
And it's a robbery that went wrong.
That's the politically correct way that we are subjected to by South African news.
But we know what it is.
You kill someone, you're a murderer.
There is no mitigation for you.
So I've sat in court holding the hands of these girls and I have communities to try and support them.
But I'm not quite sure where a girl like that goes to after an event like that.
Most of these cases, of course, go unreported.
Many of the farm murders, they say I overreact.
They like to say that I overreact.
But most of these farm murders go unreported because of the element of rape.
And nobody is going to go to a police station in South Africa.
And admit to that.
So, there are books written.
We must be the only country in the world where it is a job.
It's actually a very popular job now.
There's a lot of work for you if you clean crime scenes, especially farmers, because of the incredible amount of blood that is sprayed all over the place.
I made a movie about three years ago in which I decided that I'm not a farmer.
This is my campaign, and until I put myself in their shoes, I can't even pretend that this is a campaign that I even understand.
And even just shooting the movie...
With the amount of blood, people say, what is your movie based on?
What case is your movie based on?
Our movie, it was based on 1,800 cases.
There's nothing wrong with the research.
We were sliding around in blood.
The kids, the young actors, were screaming, even though it was a normal movie situation.
For all of us, there were tears in our eyes because we We couldn't believe that this is art imitating life, because if that is what life is, it's going to take a very long time to explain this to other people.
This is happening now, five times every seven days.
They laughed at me when I said it was happening once a week.
We have organs out there, Soros-sponsored organs out there, and their work is to discredit me every time I say anything concerning farmers.
They discredit the definition of what a farmer could be, because we include All the farmers and their families, if it should be, that definition has changed.
We are trying to get the best definition already.
We are agreeing on a definition with the South African police so that at least we get the same statistics.
We used to work on annual statistics.
They used to work on financial year statistics.
At least now we agree on these.
But this year so far, 375 57 attacks so far and almost 80 murders only this year.
This is going to be a devastating year for my campaign because my campaign is failing.
So I looked up, there's a fellow named Dr. Stanton who's writing about this question of genocide.
and uh... he had originally moved south africa uh... the genocide potential genocide against whites from the fifth stage to the sixth stage and then he put it back to stage five uh... and um... it is uh... and then after this president zuma was caught singing this song of genocide against whites it was moved back to stage six uh... stage six is known as preparation this is in the genocide categorization, and it goes like this.
Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity.
Death lists are drawn up.
Members of victim groups are forced to wear identifying symbols.
Their property is expropriated.
They are often segregated into ghettos, deported into concentration camps, or confined to a famine-struck region and starved.
Now this is the six stages, followed by stage seven, which is direct Extermination.
Now, I have read and seen the pictures and videos, Steve, of the ghettos, the camps, the squatters villages that the whites are forced into.
A lot, of course, by these racial segregation laws that bar white employment in the economy and people end up in these shanty towns.
I wonder if you can tell people a little bit about what is happening to the whites who are not able to hang on to even the bottom rung of the economic ladder.
Yeah, with a changeover of South Africa, I suppose I would be the last person to say that you should not have poverty amongst whites.
Of course you should have, but if you haven't made a dent in the unemployment rate and you have an extra half a million whites living in squatters, you are seriously failing the nation.
I've already mentioned how hard it is to get work then, if you are a white person, and I'd like to see what the unemployment rate under The white South African is.
But today, we can't rely on the government to take care of these people.
We drive out there with our cars.
We have incredible initiatives to take care of some of these people out there.
They often look up at me and ask for solutions.
They ask for me to go into politics and change their fate.
And you know, that brings tears to my eyes because Because I wish I could promise you anything.
I would go into politics if I could promise you anything at this stage as a white in South Africa.
You and I are having a conversation at quite an interesting week because this has been a devastating week for South Africa.
The news may not have reached you, but local Populations, black populations, are unhappy with their town councils.
I'll have you know that they keep these town councils in power with a vote.
They go and elect every four years, they keep the ANC in power, and then they get upset because there's no service delivery and they start burning down things.
So just to show you how close this little matchless burning flame is to the dry grass right underneath it, In the same town where, for weeks, they had some of these upheavals, a white farmer catches a black child crossing his boundary and stealing some of whatever he was planting.
And for the fifth or sixth time, he catches these kids.
What he does to them, he puts them on there, on his vehicle, and he takes them to the police station.
On the way to the police station, the child jumps from this vehicle and dies.
Of course, the story that reaches us is the child was taken to a corner and beaten to a pulp and the child was 12 years old.
Of course, it was a child.
The child was 16 years old.
It took 10 days for the parents to come to the fore.
Today, nobody is quite sure what happened there.
But it exploded into a racial war.
There was already a lot of tension, so all we need right now is, of course, for it to become a racial war.
Immediately, even people who are pro the black communities, who work under the black communities, white people who make them dresses, who give them a trick for their wells, who get them out there to play soccer and teach them things they may not have known, completely for free.
They had to run because their houses were burned down.
Three or four houses burned down in a small town called Kalini in South Africa just two, three days ago.
It shows you how close that is.
Of course the media loves this.
I see your media as well.
They're going on about the incredible problem that you have there because this week it's because Trump fired the FBI, the head of the FBI.
But of course the big problem and storm is only right there in the BBC or CNN studios because it's nowhere else really.
We have the same problem here.
They blow up racism Way beyond proportion.
But we have an Afrobarometer in South Africa that shows that 71% of respondents believed in a poll that unemployment is the largest problem the government should address.
A quarter of respondents in one of these Afrobarometer polls believe that housing and crime are the most pressing issues in South Africa.
That's followed by education and poverty and I think corruption.
But nothing about racism.
In another poll, racism was seen as... 3% of the polls just decided that racism is a problem.
So I must tell you that it's complicated.
It's crazy.
The media is not helping.
The fact the media is politically correct is just killing us.
Nobody's allowed to speak.
Nobody is allowed to put a finger on the problem because you aren't allowed to say what the problem is.
So I can't see that we're going to solve something in the in the future.
I do prioritize.
People say that it's wrong, you must take care of all South Africans.
What about the black farmers?
But I picked the commercial farmers because 90% of commercial farmers are my people.
It's in our DNA to come from Europe to a continent that doesn't, where there's no rain, And they try their clever Western ideas in agriculture, and they don't work.
And they start again, and they work out something, and when they make food, they always make food for more than just their own family.
They take care of the communities, and at the end, they take care of their country.
So the subsistence farmer, wherever they are, there are many of them, I don't know at what rate they are murdered.
If there is a campaign for that, fantastic.
It is not my campaign.
My campaign is for the farmers of my community, my tribe, my ethnicity.
We have a wonderful world, I think it's a German word called Volk, which is basically a nation in a nation, and they are the Afrikaners, and that is why my campaign is the white farmer in South Africa.
Well, and there is this question that is floating around, and it's really beginning to rise up, facilitated, I think, by the capacity for open conversations like this one, and that the Internet facilitates.
And the question is, What is the status in the world of anti-white racism?
And that status is something that is bubbling up.
Because the traditional answer from the left, traditional and becoming stronger now, is that racism is racism plus power.
And therefore, if you are in a minority, if you don't have control of the reins of state, then you cannot be a racist.
Now, that is questionable.
Racism is a state of mind.
It is not a class.
So trying to combine racism and making it dependent upon class is taking two bad situations and trying to make them better.
But here we have a situation in South Africa where the whites are clearly a tiny minority within South Africa.
So, Certainly for the last close to a quarter century whites have not had control over the reins of power because vastly outvoted by other ethnicities.
And again, this is not to make the blacks in South Africa one big blob.
They have their own tribal allegiances, their own particular ethnicities, their own particular complexities.
But The question is, should the left be interested in the situation in South Africa where you have a majority that has an ethnic homogeneity, although again not a cultural homogeneity, that is passing laws to inhibit and murdering disproportionately a racial minority within their own group.
Now, the way that they solve this problem usually, you've probably heard this a million times, I want to get your feedback on this Steve, What the way they solve this problem is say, ah, yes, but you see it's the history.
It's the history of white rule that now makes it, what, not okay, but somehow it's blowback and so on.
Although, of course, the reality is every single group in history has had its negative attacks upon other ethnicities, other cultures, other races.
So it just seems like shut the hell up white people is the continual mantra that comes from the left.
If you're a majority, then shut up because you're a majority.
If you're a minority, then shut up because your ancestors did X, Y, or Z. And I think this question of anti-white racism is becoming more and more important around the world as we do try this massive experiment of multiculturalism.
You're so right.
We're going to have to get some anti-clarity on the definition of racism.
We're going to have to get clarity on the definitions of reparations.
Firstly, to come back to the beginning of your sentence in South Africa, you have a large amount of black people and leadership who do not believe that a black person can be racist at all.
You know, sometimes I find something in there, because the racist position is also the non-envious position.
Racism is bad, yeah, yeah, we know that, but racism is one thing as well.
It is always the non-envious position.
So they may have something there, but I think they and I share different definitions of it.
Then, as far as reparations go, you and I know.
that it will not stand in a normal court of law where I'm going to punish the wrong people to compensate the wrong people.
So I don't believe in reparations over generations.
I believe in your own time, there's right and wrong, and if you steal something, maybe you should give it back.
But I don't believe in it over generations.
In South Africa, you know, they hate the word colonization, and they don't like the whites, they don't like the Western influence, and they're gonna decolonize it immediately.
I'd love to know what a decolonized science, for instance, is going to look like.
I told you before that they have this whole decolonization process in English.
They remove the statues of Cecil John Rhodes and they scream and shout in English that they don't like him.
So there's the first bit of bigotry there.
The reparations thing is because one of the things, of course, if you're going to decolonize Africa, is you're going to have to take away not just English, but literacy as a whole.
And because we have a very recent history of literacy under the Africans in our country, maybe the last 100 years, 120 years, they don't really care, it seems to me, to read back further than 100 years or 120 years.
Because have they done, they will see that racism didn't start when whites arrived here.
Divisions didn't start.
Wars didn't come.
They liked to sketch the pre-colonial black in Africa as a peaceful being.
And all the turmoil was brought about by the pioneers.
But of course, none of this is true.
If you can read history further back than the 19th century, you'll be aghast at the kind of bloodshed that occurred on this continent.
If you don't have to read about literacy, Then you can start history wherever you want, which is quite interesting, because I have an idea that unless you are royalty today, pretty much everyone has an ancestor that was a slave somewhere along the line, and I'd like to have reparations for that.
Of course, that isn't going to happen.
What I keep telling myself, concluding this question, is that what about the future?
If you think you're punishing the past today, what are you doing today to sidestep the punishment that is waiting for you 10, 20, 30 years from now, when we have another Truth and Reconciliation Committee and they ask you, why did you start racism again?
Why did you have 114 race-based laws?
What happened to these five, six hundred thousand white people who can't take care of their children now?
What happened to the education standards and the health standards and that whole long list I just I just named.
Yeah, so, interesting times, short-sightedness, myopic.
I am extremely upset about this because I know that black people have the potential to do anything anybody else does in the world.
I just think they didn't.
Small difference between me and the old Africana, the old racist Africana.
They believe that there are supreme nations and that blacks can't do.
what they did.
That is not me.
I believe anybody can be taught anything and anybody can do anything.
I just believe that some people did not.
And if you did not have military power in the age of conquest, you were useless to that age.
And that's why the Afrikaner, being always a minority, did so well against extreme majorities, especially in war 100 and 200 years ago.
Well, okay, so, I mean, there's a lot in what you said.
I'll just sketch a very brief possibility that, of course, when Europeans came to sub-Saharan Africa in particular, and the Sahara was sort of the big divide, there was no written language to speak of, no two-story buildings, the wheel had not been invented, so it was a fairly primitive place, to put it mildly.
Now, whether it's due to cultural issues, whether it's due to the famous sort of Sub-Saharan Africans having an average IQ of 70, whether it's to do with family structure, whether it's to do with religiosity or inter-tribal warfare, or for whatever reason, there is that challenge.
And as you point out, there has been less complex a set of evolutionary milestones that have gone through in the sub-saharan black community than has gone in the complexity of sort of western white european civilization so that could be one of the challenges and it would go a long way to explain why of course when the society gets up and what why the society was the way it was under apartheid and how some of what has happened since could be considered predictable according to to this kind of history so
Where that goes from here, again, you know, arguing about history is something that does, as you point out, tend to irradiate the future and possibilities.
And now, of course, I think one of the big concerns is where some of the Boers and some of the Afrikaners, the white farmers, where they stand with regards to the suggested or potential appropriation of the land.
Because they know You know, the Boers who run the farms, who feed the country.
Let's be pretty honest about that.
The Boers know that if they lose their land, particularly without compensation, but even with compensation, if they lose their land, where are they going to end up?
Well, they're hated by a lot of people.
There are, as you point out, over a hundred segregation laws, a lot of them targeted against whites.
They're not probably going to be able to find a foothold or a toehold into the regular South African economy.
They're going to spiral down and it could happen within a matter of weeks or months.
They're going to spiral down into these hundreds of thousands of white squatter camps where there literally is nowhere to go and people are terrified every night.
Crime is still a problem there.
So I think that, and this is according to some of the stuff I looked up, that there is a group called Boer Afrikaner Volksrat and they claim to have 40,000 members and they say if the land is taken without compensation it would be and I quote a declaration of war end quote.
The Telegraph has quoted the group's chairman who says we are ready to fight back we need urgent mediation between us and the government if this starts It will turn into a racial war which we want to prevent and this is important and it goes along with the usual thing that happens with these kinds of situations where the government is trying to take away the weapons that the whites have and the Boers have, particularly the farmers, so that they have no capacity to fight back against criminality, let alone expropriation.
Do you think it might come to that?
Knowing what faces them if they lose their farms, where they're going to fall down to, which is a society living in a A shack or a tent with no future whatsoever.
Do you think that it might escalate to that point where there could be some sort of racial conflict that is significant?
We, with our mortality rate, we don't need a war, I may have to add.
We are dying at the rate of countries that are at war.
So we've had a low kind of frequency war here anyway.
We don't have people approaching each other with guns, with flags, and killing each other.
But we do suffer the same mortality rates.
We spend more time in cemeteries than anybody else that I know anywhere in the world.
But I think you are right.
This is the last frontier.
You take the soil from the Africana or the Boer, you may as well rip his heart out.
There's nothing left to lose.
There's nothing left to lose.
The majority of these Boers, may I add, are still paying off, paying the bank.
A very interesting post was circulated to all the banks, saying that of all the properties that we are living on, that we bought from you, that you actually own, that you sold to us, that we will pay off until we die one day, have you sold us stolen land?
Because then maybe we shall not be fighting this war, the black people should be fighting the war with you.
Of course, tongue in cheek, but Quite a relevant question at this stage.
Nobody in South Africa wants war.
We've had bloodshed forever.
We do get along on the streets.
Out there, normal people who don't follow us and don't read the news, we actually have no choice.
We have to get along.
We work hard.
We laugh a lot.
South Africans are And a lot of great things of humor under conditions, I should say.
We laugh a lot.
We have massive language differences.
We don't understand each other, but we try.
And we do get along.
We do have the potential to go back and be a great country.
And I have not immigrated because I still see that potential.
It would be impossible for me to leave this place.
But this week shattered my confidence.
I have never been this pessimistic about the future.
You know, last year, even in debates, when they asked me what should farmers do, I would say, you know, get get policing, sector policing.
Let's get the commandos back, build higher walls, get a dog, get burglar proofing, get two-way communication, start a community, our farmers keep each other safe.
But, you know, A week ago they asked me the same question in a debate and I'm afraid the only two things left for you now is to get a very vicious dog, many of them if you can, and arm, arm yourself, arm your family, arm everybody on your farm right now.
If it's not for the guy who's going to jump over your fence tonight, it's going to be for someone.
It could even be the government.
who's going to appropriate your land right from under your butt.
I warn you that this is not going to go well.
I can't see anybody voluntarily giving up their land.
For us capitalists, of course, it's nothing than systematic theft, justified theft, if you want, in the eyes of the socialist.
And I think it's fairly clear, Steve, that if it were happening to a non-white group being perpetrated by whites that the world would be utterly up in arms and this hypocrisy is not going to go well for the world and that this is my big concern with South Africa which again I mean I'm sure you share which is if the land is If they try to appropriate the land, either they're going to succeed or they're going to fail.
And the only reason they're going to fail is because a race war erupts.
And the only reason they're going to succeed is people bow down and try and flee, in which case the productivity of the land is going to collapse and mass starvation is going to ensue.
That's my particular take from where I'm sitting.
So if this particular program goes forward, and as you say it seems to be, there is absolutely no positive outcome.
I've said this for a long time, that white people are very nice until they're not.
You know that there's the Chamberlains and then there's the Churchills, right?
There's the appease, appease, okay, we'll give up rights, we'll surrender, we'll have affirmative action, we'll try our very best, we'll hand over power, we'll... But I think every particular group, when cornered, is going to end up turning and fighting.
And if the governments keep pushing and cornering and pushing and cornering, the outcome, to me, just seems to be bad in every particular direction.
We need a radical change.
Black people are marching in the streets of South Africa right now because they want radical economic transformation.
Us capitalists, many of us whites, believe we do need a radical change, but nothing of the sort.
that is preached on that side.
For them, the radical economic transformation is more socialism, more nationalization of the parastatals, making us poorer quickly, or get the money that's left and distribute it more quickly, so that we're really buggered, you know, because that's going to be rock bottom after that.
Ironically, when you started that question, one of the reasons that I was crucified, or became a headline over here, is after 10 years of counting the bodies of my people, I made the statement and it became the headline.
It said, I can for the life of me not find any white people scaling the fences on black people, raping their grandmothers and burning them with irons and drowning them.
Because that's what's happening.
You know what kills me is that as you and I are having this conversation, there is an 80-year-old now fighting for her life or his life.
They take drools.
They drool their legs.
They burn them with cigarettes.
A family of mine, also an 80-year-old, was just drowned.
If they get to your house and you're in the bar, you will be drowned.
They will take a cell phone, maybe.
If there's cash, they'll take that.
Mostly, they want weapons.
Back to the original question.
What did they want to do with these weapons?
They disarmed every single person that had a weapon in this country, predominantly white people, legal.
They disarmed the people who legally had arms, who knew what to do with them, who went through the course and were trained with guns.
They took those people's arms away and years later, even amongst the police, we would get to the shelters where these arms were supposed to be kept and they were gone.
Police were caught selling them and distributing these weapons to people who do not have licenses.
This cannot have a good ending.
So when South Africa is not nose-diving economically, which is the one problem, it is burning to the ground at the moment as we are talking.
So you may mistake this for politics or fault politics for it, but do not lose sight of this, that the black South African and the black South African student rioted through both dispensations during apartheid when they were upset.
And now it seems that they are more upset than ever during the ANC regime.
It's not disparate politics and just ideology, it seems.
But to me, it seems like a base materialistic cravings and the promise of freebies for you who burn most, vandalize more, throw feces at first, drop your trousers, lowest for international cameras, so anarchy the widest.
And I know you have the same in America.
Four questions ago we had this discussion that we just don't know what is left and right anymore.
I just don't know what is a Republican and a Democrat anymore because I also bought the fake news that it's the Republicans who start wars and get upset when they don't get what they want or they don't get their president in power.
But the moment Donald Trump became president in America, there were shots of, I think, Times Square with lefts dropping their trousers and defecating on the street.
And ironically, the photograph of Paris a week ago, When Macron became the president, the streets were deserted.
There were no right-wing... I'm sure you have the same problem in South Africa, that we are never called right.
I'm to the right of center.
Extreme right.
You're far right.
You're an extremist or a radical right.
I'm always far, far right.
I see like Marine Le Pen, she can never be right.
She can be far, far, far right, or extreme right, radical right.
That's the shit we sit with with media.
It's kind of an sub-language category that we've had to get used to and this is why I said yes to this interview because you've been one of the guys who have opened our eyes worldwide to an alternative way of looking at the world.
Well, I also wanted to point out that for a lot of the people who are watching and listening to this, Steve, a lot of people are going to think that this is somehow a problem that can be confined to South Africa and I want to tell everyone emphatically They are wrong.
It is not.
If the South African economy goes under, and this is a problem worldwide, that there are people who work for a living and there are people who vote for a living.
And if the South African economy goes under, if the land is expropriated, even if there's not a race war, if there is a race war, then the food production will collapse.
If there is a race war or not a race war, the food production is going to collapse.
When the food production collapses, people leave the country.
By the hundreds of thousands, by the millions, they will head north, they will push their way through whatever barriers they can, they will try to get to Libya, they will try to get to the Mediterranean, and then they will try to get to Europe.
So the idea that somehow this problem, in this age of mass migration from the third world to the first world, the idea that somehow this problem That the people who produce the food that are sustaining massive proportions of the population, that they are in danger of losing their land or being distracted by conflict, the idea that this is going to be confined to South Africa and it doesn't affect you if you're not in South Africa and it won't affect your grandchildren, it won't affect their grandchildren, you are wrong about that.
This is something the world needs to pay attention to.
There are so many lessons to be learned so that we don't keep making these same mistakes.
Very true.
You know, in the last hour 50 boats crossed the Mediterranean.
I'd like you to know it's only because South Africa and Botswana and Kenya and Nigeria still do reasonably well on this continent.
And if they did not, those boats would double and triple.
By now you know you have the same problem.
The Atlantic is not wide enough for people to cross and they get to your country as well.
As South Africans, though, we'd like to think that we are maybe, in this case, a couple of years ahead of you.
We were the minority in our sovereignty.
Now we are a complete minority in a tyranny.
I don't recognize my language.
My statues aren't allowed to stay where they are.
We have to move them or else they will destroy them.
All street names are changed and standards just drop through the bottom.
So steady years since the US, the European and Scandinavian countries sanctioned South Africa and we know you are all reviewing your apartheid notes as we're speaking and considering building walls and America really owes us nothing.
There were talks of me going abroad speaking to some of your leaders there but In the last three years, it's quite evident that everybody has their own problems at this stage of the game and nobody's going to take a look at South Africa at this stage of the game.
At the moment, everybody has got their own very similar problems in their own countries.
But America sanctioned our subsidized and subsidized our predicament back then.
America can walk away from this.
But America is ironically forced to adopt the very same measures right now to keep groups apart in the American lifestyle and to keep Americans safe.
The world is now reviewing apartheid, which is what you do when you consider walls and gates and social grounds and subjects and foreigners and policies and disparate societies to get along without burning each other.
So I'd like to internationalize our problem.
I tell the world about it, and I make speeches all over the world.
but I don't have strange expectations from the rest of the planet.
But if you are out there, And you are a South African, and you have Americanized, and you're a citizen over there, and you're listening from Europe, and you're now in Great Britain or in Germany, and you know your local senator there.
You already have power to bring our story to them.
Please let it not ever be said like during the Second World War that nobody knew about.
Everybody knows about this.
I've made the movies.
I've sung the songs.
I tour.
I make the speeches.
I have been boycotted silly.
I have sliced my income in half just because of really believing that we have a problem and putting words to it and being politically incorrect when I do it because I think the problem is clear.
It can be addressed.
It should be addressed.
We're all going to have to come to the table with a little bit more integrity than we have right now and a lot of honesty.
And I wonder if it's going to happen.
And it's funny, you know, because I grew up with no particular sense of race consciousness or cultural consciousness as far as that goes.
But I feel like I'm just being pushed in that direction by events within the world.
And it is important.
We have an example in South Africa, Canary in the coal mine, of what happens when whites become minorities in their own country.
We have yet to solve the problem of racial coexistence and integration.
Culture and race and ethnicity and history, these things all combine.
We don't have a solution yet, but we're kind of rushing forward as if we have this magic wand that we can wave over disparate and often hostile communities and just have them all sing kumbaya, as the saying goes, and get along.
And I'd really like it if the world could sort of just say, OK, well, we still have some problems to solve.
Let's not keep marching forward as if we have all of these.
Well, thank you.
It's been an absolute honor.
I'm following you.
Keep up the good work and thank you very much to the gentleman who I spoke to just before you.
Good luck and if ever you come this way, phone me first.
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