March 8, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
02:30:34
4312 Amateur "Adult" Couple Open Up! Freedomain Call In
A couple who produce their own adult content call into the Freedomain Philosophy show to discuss the profits, perils and pitfalls of the growing amateur adult industry. NSFW.▶️ Donate Now: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate▶️ Sign Up For Our Newsletter: http://www.fdrurl.com/newsletterYour support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate▶️ 1. Donate: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate▶️ 2. Newsletter Sign-Up: http://www.fdrurl.com/newsletter▶️ 3. On YouTube: Subscribe, Click Notification Bell▶️ 4. Subscribe to the Freedomain Podcast: http://www.fdrpodcasts.com▶️ 5. Follow Freedomain on Alternative Platforms🔴 Bitchute: http://bitchute.com/stefanmolyneux🔴 Minds: http://minds.com/stefanmolyneux🔴 Steemit: http://steemit.com/@stefan.molyneux🔴 Gab: http://gab.ai/stefanmolyneux🔴 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stefanmolyneux🔴 Facebook: http://facebook.com/stefan.molyneux🔴 Instagram: http://instagram.com/stefanmolyneux
So, this is a bit of a departure from the regular show content, although I am curious.
So, we're talking here with Scott and Lorena, and I guess I'll leave it to you guys to introduce the topic that you contacted me about.
Yes.
You want to go first, baby?
No, you can go real quick.
Well, you're the star of the show.
I am, yes.
So, hello everyone.
My name is Lorena and I go by... And we are both into the adult industry.
As husband and wife.
As husband and wife.
And we just pretty much want to share our experience to the world and just share some... Show that it's not all bad.
Yeah, show that it's not all bad and there's some good times into it as well.
Right, so...
You know me, I like to rewind the tape, so to speak, and start at the beginning.
So, do either of you want to go through the Socratic questions about childhood first, or is it a ladies first scenario, or how should we take this?
We can do ladies first.
We can do ladies first, yes.
However you want to start.
Alright.
So, Lorena, where did you... No, don't give me geographical details, of course, but, you know, where roughly in the world did you grow up?
What was your childhood like, and all that kind of fun stuff?
I grew up...
Florida born and raised and my childhood was kind of blurry in a sense and it was it was kind of a rough upbringing if I'm being honest of course and yeah it was definitely interesting and let's just say I didn't have much of a childhood.
What happened?
Uh, let's see.
So I am the oldest out of five kids and my mother had me when she was probably in her early 20s.
And I was about five or six years old and she had my other brother.
And from there, I just felt like a parent to not just her, but also to him.
So I felt like I was put on this responsibility where, you know, I was taking care of everyone.
But myself, type of thing.
And, yeah.
I'm so sorry to hear that.
That's a hell of a burden to put on a kid.
Not just the sibling stuff.
Now, that's going to happen in families anyway.
I mean, there is just going to be a little bit of conscription for elder siblings to deal with younger siblings because, you know, parents are busy.
There's lots of kids.
But it's the parenting of the mom that really struck me in what you were saying.
But before we get into that, I guess the inevitable question for me, Daddy?
Hmm okay so on and off until I was 24 years old and let's just say they they were married and got divorced when I was about three or four years old and he was in and out of my life up until I was 24.
So they were did they have one of these I guess on again off again relationships?
Not really It was more like... This memory is kind of a blur to be honest.
It was more like she told me one thing and then when he was in my life he would say another and I was always in the middle of their unfinished relationship.
Like complaining about each other kind of thing?
All the time.
So what would your mom complain about regarding your dad?
From what I remember he would never tip, he would never pay child support.
According to her.
And she would always say, listen, you're at a certain age right now, so you can figure out what you think of him.
And with the divorce, do you know why they split up?
Things didn't really work out.
Obviously.
Obviously.
And again, like she would tell me one thing, he would tell me another.
From what my dad would tell me is he just felt used for my mom and he was basically someone that she can just marry to get like a citizenship type of thing.
Oh, so she married him to get citizenship.
That was his sort of thought?
Yes.
And where was she from?
Nicaragua.
And was he a white American dude?
He's Hispanic.
He was, I believe, he was raised in New York, I believe.
Yeah.
Alright, so he's Hispanic, but from, I mean, Hispanic's a pretty broad category.
Do you know what his heritage was?
Yes, Cuban.
Cuban.
So he's Cuban.
Do you know how long he or his family had been in America?
From what he would tell me, he was about six or seven when he came to the States and he was living up in New York.
Oh, so his family moved to America when he was six or seven and then your mother from Nicaragua married him and got citizenship that way?
Yes, from my understanding.
Do you know how they met?
It's kind of a far stretch there pre-internet.
According to what they told me, they met with casual friends at a party, and I believe it was in Florida at the time.
Right.
And do you know what your mother was doing in the States?
I don't know.
Was she looking for somebody to attach for a green card, or do you have any idea what she was doing there?
Probably.
Probably, right?
So she was coming trawling for citizenship perhaps by marriage, right?
Correct.
And do you know how long they went out before they got married?
I don't know.
I mean, according to them, they were together in total 8 years and then I was like about 3 or 4 when they divorced her.
So 8 years and they had, did I get this right, 5 kids?
So no.
They only had me.
I'm the only child from them and then When they divorced, my father remarried a few years later, and he had two of his own kids with his wife.
Your stepmom?
My stepmom, correct.
And then my mom had my brother from one guy, and then ten years later, had another kid from another guy.
So, wow.
That's...
Quite a blended family situation you've got going on there, right?
So you've got, I'm just trying to figure this out, you've got three fathers among your siblings, you've got three fathers, is it three moms?
Two moms.
Two moms, yes.
Two moms, three fathers, right?
Right.
Are they Catholics?
I don't think so.
Yeah, empirically that would seem to be a negatory, right?
Yeah.
So how did you Get along with your step-mom?
Growing up, I just wanted her to kind of like me because I just wanted to get along with her and I just wanted to kind of feel accepted from her because I just felt like I was always the outsider when I would go visit my father growing up.
Because separate mom and difficult circumstances of divorce and so on?
Correct, yeah.
And, of course, when she already had her kids, my half-siblings, I just felt like, okay, well, I kind of want to be in this little circle, if you allow me, type of thing.
Was your step-mom also from the Hispanic culture?
She's Cuban, as well.
She's Cuban, okay.
And was she long-term American or more recent?
I believe she was born and raised in the States.
Okay, got it.
Now, how did your half-siblings treat you?
I felt like they had their moments where they really wanted to get to know me and other moments I felt like I had to try to have them like me and get their attention and always reach out to them.
Right, right.
And with regards to discipline, when you were growing up, how were you parented when your parents perceived that you had done something wrong or bad?
Or your caregivers, or you know, this mix that's around.
It's a combination of no discipline, and when I were to get in trouble per se, I had like an uncle in there and he would, his way of discipline would be yelling at me.
And saying that you did this wrong and you shouldn't do it.
And here and there I will get a spanking.
Because in Hispanic culture, you know, that's how they did things back then.
And sometimes it would be like on the butt or on the arm.
And the worst part was on the mouth.
So you would be hit on the mouth?
Was that open hand or closed hand?
Open hand.
And how often would you get hit on the mouth?
Often.
How often?
I would say a few times in a year.
Okay.
And hit on other parts of your body?
How often would that happen?
Often.
And not just from my mother, but sometimes from my grandma or an aunt or... I don't remember an uncle He was more of the yeller in the family.
But everyone else, the women in the family, would take their part in spanking.
And how often would you get hit not in the mouth?
Not in the mouth?
It's pretty much when I ever felt like I wanted to express myself, I would always be hit in the mouth.
So for the most part, I was always quiet.
And I felt like, you know what, let me just Stay quiet, and maybe I won't get as much in trouble as much.
I just keep things to myself.
Boy, I tell you, Lorena, you're really working hard to not answer my question.
Do you want me to ask it again?
You can tell me you don't want to answer the question.
That's fine.
I mean, I'm just asking questions.
But I am aware that you've now twice avoided the answer.
Well, I'm trying to answer as much as I can.
No, no.
I asked you twice, how many times did you get hit, not in the mouth?
Oh, not in the mouth.
I don't remember, to be honest.
Daily, weekly, monthly?
I would say monthly.
Monthly, alright.
When you were yelled at, what was the kind of language that was used against you or about you?
Hmm.
It was more of a... just...
You're putting me down in so many ways.
You shouldn't be doing this and you should do better.
It's all a blur, to be honest.
There's always a question that parents have when children go astray or do something against parental values.
There's always a question, I suppose, which is Are the children going astray because the parents have been bad teachers?
Or are the children going astray because the children are bad?
Right.
I'm gonna guess the second one, but, you know, of course tell me if I'm wrong.
Parents.
It's definitely the parents.
Because all I try to do is show them that, you know, I can, I'm a good daughter and I can be the best I can, but I need your guidance.
I need you to tell me how to get there.
And I craved for that attention my whole life.
To the point that it wasn't even worth it.
Because I just realized my family are just very toxic people.
And I don't need that in my life.
It's interesting, you said, everything you say is interesting to me, but you were saying about The lack of guidance followed by the random punishments.
So, you said that you basically got no discipline and then you got yelled at or hit.
And what do you mean no discipline?
Was there any moral instruction?
Was there any church going?
Was there anything that would fall into the category of giving you some reasonable rules on how to live?
Not necessarily, no.
I mean, there was some church involved
but it wasn't consistent and there would just be things like if I did something wrong they would hit me and they wouldn't even tell me how to correct it next time so of course I would always keep on repeating the same mistake over and over so it's like okay I'm obviously doing something wrong so tell me what to do to not do it again Do you remember any specific examples of what they would call wrong behavior?
Like a lot of it in Latina culture has to do with don't shame or embarrass the parents or the family, but not necessarily objective moral rules just like I feel shamed or embarrassed.
I'm trying to think of an example because it's just so much... I mean, your uncle was pretty hard on you.
He'd always like, you know, call you fat and all that kind of stuff and kind of teach you like, like, you know, treat you like a boy.
Make you do things.
Compete.
Yeah, that's very true, actually.
Yeah, I'm just thinking about the woman and the culture.
But yeah, my uncle.
He was practically the only male figure in the family that I know of, and he.
He would kind of.
I want to say pressure, but he would just be like, oh, come on, let's let's watch a game.
Let's let's play a sport.
Let's do this.
Let's do that.
I was just probably his way of trying to show his interest of things on me.
I think Scott was saying that it was more boy-oriented.
Yes, so the reason why is because I was kind of the only girl from my mom's side of the family and I grew up with all boy cousins.
Right.
This of course is going to lead me to my next question.
Okay.
Did you experience any sexually inappropriate behavior before you became an adult?
I did.
And what was that?
First of all, I'm really, really sorry, of course, but what was that?
So, I'm not sure how old I was exactly, but I would say roughly between six and eight.
There was not this uncle, but there was a uncle of my mother's that I guess one day he was just babysitting me or something.
I'm not sure where my mom was at the time, but he He tried to do some sexual things with me, but he didn't, because I knew better to, like, tell him, no, no, please stop, don't do this, and thank God nothing ever happened after that.
And, obviously, I guess he was alone with you, and what was the sexual activity that he, well, the molestation, I suppose, that he initiated?
He just tried to, he put his hands on me or on my arms a little bit and he tried to lift up my dress and try to remove my panties in the process but then I stopped it as soon as possible because I knew it felt wrong.
Right.
And did you tell anyone about this?
I did a few years later.
I'm not sure how old I was exactly, but I did tell my mom.
I confronted her about it.
And she immediately said, really?
He did that?
No, he wouldn't do that.
He should know.
And then she turned it around, admitted about her, and said that, oh, you know, that experience happened to me back in Nicaragua.
And I had no words to say after that.
Did she give you any more details about what happened to her in Nicaragua?
No, she didn't.
She just left it like that.
Wasn't there a thing with her cousin?
Sorry, go ahead Scott.
There was nothing with her cousin, no?
Well, that's a few years later.
So, after that there was something with a cousin there and It was something similar, but obviously I was a lot older, so I knew, yeah, no, this is not gonna happen.
He was just one of them people that he doesn't care if you're blood or not, that he would try anything to pursue you.
And was it similar, like he would just sort of grab at you and you pushed him away?
Yes.
And as far as telling people about that?
I haven't, actually.
I haven't told anyone about that.
Just my husband.
And Nami?
And how old were you when that happened?
Was that post-puberty?
Yes, that was closer to that time.
Right.
And was that it as far as sexual activity went until you became an adult?
I'm sorry, repeat that question?
Was that it as far as sexual activity for you until you became an adult?
Yes.
And when you became... Let me sort of change direction here a second just because I wanted to pursue something else for a sec.
So you're dating history as a teenager.
What happened?
I started dating about 16 years old and whenever I would go out on a date my mother would Make sure she would meet the person beforehand.
That was nice of her.
And she would have my younger brother at the time to go on dates with me.
Oh, like a chaperone they would say, right?
Yeah, pretty much.
And I didn't have too much of a dating life because I started working since I was 16 and it was just It was just more about working and just trying to make my own life, I guess.
And what did your mom do for a living? - At the time, she was unstable when it came to jobs.
Like, she was a good job.
She worked in the retail department, and then the fast food industry, and then And then a maid, last time I heard.
Yes, she did, actually.
- Did she spend, I mean if she was unstable, did she spend some time unemployed? - Yes, she did actually.
From what I remember, she, when she had my last brother, she was unemployed for quite some time.
And what did she... If your father wasn't paying child support... I mean, family finances are always a big mystery to me sometimes.
If your father wasn't paying child support and she wasn't working, what was she living on?
I'm pretty sure the taxes towards the end.
Oh, she was on welfare?
I believe so.
I remember you telling me stories that when she, you know, like at the end of the year when she got like taxes and all that kind of stuff and she would make a lot of money because when you have kids, uh, you know, you get quite a lot of money back and she would just go and spend it like crazy and get into debt.
And every time she got a credit card, she'd just get deeper and deeper into debt.
I just remember hearing stories about that.
And I also remember, You tell me that she tried to, like, get you to marry someone from Nicaragua when you were young.
She did, actually, but it was a joke.
Do you think that might have been worth mentioning at some point, over your mother being very protective about your dating life, that she also tried to marry you off like some Iranian bride?
And I think she tried to give you away at one point, too.
Okay, I will get into that.
Yes, please, please feel free to.
As far as her trying to marry me off, it wasn't serious-serious, it was just more of a bypass.
Meaning... What?
Okay, let me explain.
So, she told me that my aunt's husband, nephew, something like that, he obviously needed a green card to get into the States, and that she mentioned, yeah, you should marry him, you should help him out.
And I just looked at her like, no.
Like, what's wrong with you?
And that's it.
That's all.
That's all that happened.
She didn't push it.
Your mother comes to America by marrying a guy for a green card.
She divorces him.
She ends up on welfare and she tries to marry her teenage daughter off to another man so that he can get a green card so he can come to America.
Correct.
Yeah, I can't imagine why anyone's interested in a wall or say voted for Donald Trump because that is a disaster.
Completely unsustainable for a country.
Just wanted to point that out for those who are confused about these mysteries of American politics.
Wow.
Wow.
Okay.
And so that was the one thing, Scott, you mentioned.
Oh, you tried to give you away?
She tried to give you away?
Yes, I actually remember this.
So, I was what?
It's a blur and I did say from the beginning.
Yeah, I appreciate that Scott is there for the subtitles.
It certainly helps.
I would say I was about 10 or 12.
Something like that.
And I was visiting my dad at the time and I found out that I was here longer than usual because I'm only there for like a week or two maybe.
I think I'm being in America but visiting your dad?
Yes, in the States, yes.
And then I felt sad one time, like why am I not back home?
What's going on?
And eventually I went home.
But then I found out a few years later that my dad told me at the time that, listen, your mom tried to give you away to me.
To who?
My dad.
Oh, she tried to give you away to your dad?
To my dad, yes.
And to the point that she sent over your birth certificate and everything.
And then all he said to me was, are you sure you want to do this?
And then she's like, yes.
And then obviously that didn't work because I was homesick.
I missed my mother so much at the point that I guess he couldn't handle it.
So he sent me back home.
Okay, so when... It's not on eBay or anything, right?
Okay, I just wanted to double check.
I didn't want to give you away.
It's like, hey, guy on the bus, feel like a kid?
Anyway, all right, just wanted to... Yeah, I would actually imagine her mother going for a drive-thru, not having money to pay for the food, and trying to give her daughter, you know, just take my daughter and she'll work, you know, kind of thing.
We're laughing about it now, but it's not really funny.
No, it's not.
No.
And... Did she stay married to... Did she get remarried?
Is that right?
She never got remarried, no.
But I will say that she actually ended up giving away one of my brothers.
To who?
To his father.
Oh, so she gave up custody is probably a better way to put it, right?
Yes.
But at the time, that's how I saw it, really.
You just gave up your son.
So not a super strong bond?
No.
In any way, shape or form?
And is she single?
Or did she stay single?
Did she have boyfriends?
How did that work?
So, growing up, she dated a lot.
And to the point that it was countless times.
What, you were in the house?
Is that right?
When you were a kid?
Yes.
To the point that, you know, she'd be having sex in the same room.
That I was in.
Yes.
Sex in the same room as you?
Yes.
Yes.
I would hear them.
I wouldn't see it.
Is it quiet sex or?
It was quiet sex.
Right.
Right.
So that's classy.
Okay.
Was it because there was only one room that you were living in?
I mean how did that?
Correct.
Okay.
Growing up we lived in A lot of just, just one, one room, one bedroom apartments.
Um, so we, we shared, we shared space a lot.
Right.
I'm going to imagine these were pretty trashy guys.
Oh yeah.
I do remember the last guy that I actually met, he was a nice guy.
He was just really quiet and he was one of these people that he was so nice that, you know, she just walked all over him and just used him.
So I can imagine when your dad said that, you know, she just used him and tried to milk him for everything.
Um, I do see that.
Aggressive, exploitive, Latina woman.
Come on.
No, I refuse to believe it.
And what's her story now?
I guess if you're not in contact with her, what was, what was the sort of life arc the last time that you had contact with her?
She was still with him.
So the quiet guy?
Yeah, she was still with the quiet boyfriend and I guess she was still a maid.
I'll break in with this one because this is actually when we first started dating at the time and she was still talking to her mom and I actually got a chance to meet her mom and some of the family.
It was kind of awkward because she didn't really speak any English and Her mom doesn't speak any English?
She does, but she is very broken.
So she understands English, she just doesn't speak it as well.
She's been in America for how long?
Close to 30 years, so you think she will learn the language by now?
Yeah, and because I'm from a different country, so I have an accent, it was kind of harder for her to understand me as well.
So it was a little bit tough, but I could see how She would act, uh, push around the guy that she was dating and, you know, he was just quiet, did everything.
And I kind of, you know, saw how she was with Lorena and I just, uh, I just, I didn't like it.
Um, I had a feeling right off the bat that I'm like, I do not like this woman, you know, and this is before she told me anything about her.
I just knew I'm like, this person is, she's a problem, you know, like she's like a very infectious person and I, She's wearing a mask.
I can't, I can't really get close to her.
I don't really know her.
I'm just going to keep my distance and watch.
And I did see that every time, uh, you know, her mom would come to visit or she got off the phone with her mom.
Wait, let me back up.
She only visited me here twice.
Twice.
We would always talk on the phone.
But after you got off the phone, you just looked drained.
You looked, you know, just sad and, It was really like that with any member of your family.
The life was sucked out of me.
Yeah, it just wasn't right, you know?
And then you were carrying around all these problems because of your mom.
And that's when I knew there was an issue there.
So then when you became an adult, I guess 18 or so, Lorena, what happened in your life since then?
I remember I moved out from my house when I was... I'd just turned 19.
And at the time, I was dating someone much older than I. When I say much older, I would say about, he was like in his late 20s, early 30s.
So 10, 10 and a bit years, right?
Correct.
Okay.
Not the first time either.
And I figured... Wait, hang on.
What?
Go back?
When was the first time you dated a much older guy?
Yes.
You might want to tell them this.
That was the guy.
No.
What about the time you lost your virginity?
Oh.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
He was in that... Okay.
So, I... I was 16 at the time when I lost my virginity and he was 24 at the time.
24?
Yes.
That's a bit of a spread.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And did you date that man for a while?
We dated a few months afterwards, yes.
And why did you end up not staying together?
At the time, he was going to school to become a chef and it was a distance thing as well.
We hardly saw each other.
But your mom had no problem with it because she would say that in Nicaragua, you know, guys would date like 11 year olds.
Well, apparently it's very common and Well, that's a wonderful addition to the American tapestry.
So, you were dating an older guy when you were 19, you moved out, and what happened then?
Well, things didn't really work out because I knew that I just needed a way out of my mom.
He already had another girlfriend.
I will get into that.
No, you might want to get into it right now.
She was dating a guy who had another girlfriend and they knew.
So they all lived in the same house together.
Really?
Yeah.
Why would you want that relationship?
Well, at the time I thought I did want it.
No, but why?
I knew you wanted it because you did it, but why would you want to move in and share a guy that you love or care about with another woman?
Because I wanted to leave my parents so fast that I just needed a window.
Oh, so the habit of trading sacks for resources was continuing from your mom down to you, right?
Oh, unfortunately.
I mean, tell me if I'm wrong or, you know, I try to be pretty blunt about these things because, you know, we're all adults here, right?
But your mom traded sex for a green card and you wanted to move out and so I guess you were willing to trade sexual access to move into the house with the guy who was in his late 20s or early 30s who had another girlfriend who was living in the house, right?
As long as he'll put you up, then you'll have sex with him, right?
Correct.
You're not wrong.
No, I mean, again, tell me, obviously, I'm just trying to put the threads together here, but that sort of, I mean, did you love him?
No.
No?
Boy, that sounded pretty emphatic.
So, what was it about him that you found off-putting?
Well, he was older and he was more responsible.
He had a job and he, obviously, he had his own place.
So I just saw that as a way out at the meantime.
Yeah, you didn't answer.
So I asked what you found off-putting about him, because when I said, do you love him, you were like, no!
So what was it that was negative about him?
Well, the number one thing was that he had a girlfriend.
And he was pretty upfront about that?
Or did he get you hooked into a relationship and then tell you about the girlfriend or what?
No, he was pretty honest about it from the beginning.
And I think at the time, I really didn't care because I'm like, I just need a way out.
Yeah, and it's funny, I mean, just by the by, I mean, you guys are aware of this, but I just wanted to share it.
It's funny how, you know, I wanted to not have my mom around, so I ended up, when I was 15, basically putting on her, she always wanted to go to Vancouver, so I just put her on the bus to Vancouver.
You know, but I never had the option of like, And, you know, I mean, 15 would be too early and all that, but I never had the option of people saying, oh yeah, you can move in with me, just have sex with me.
You know, like, for women, maybe for some really hot guys, but for women that's, like, the thing.
Like, you can do that.
That's why there aren't that many homeless women, because they can always trade sex for a roof over their head.
But it's...
Interesting how that kind of temptation of like, oh, okay, so I just have to have sex with this guy and I get to move out from crazy mom's place.
That's a uniquely, almost uniquely female option that it's hard for men to sort of process, if that makes sense.
And what's funny is I, from what I remember, we hardly had sex.
I made sure to keep myself busy.
Work long hours.
You don't bathe.
You put anacondas and scorpions and so on in your pockets and you're like, yeah, if you're feeling brave, have at it.
Plus, he had his other girlfriend, of course, so I figured, you know what, let her take care of him for a little bit.
And then there were times where when we were all in a good place, good mood, we'd We'd encounter threesomes.
Right.
Now, ménage à trois is the French phrase.
Is there a phrase in Spanish for that as well?
I'm sure there is.
I can't remember.
Right.
So, you would have threesomes with your boyfriend and that's how much you wanted to get away from your mom.
Correct.
And how often would these threesomes happen?
Honestly not often because I remember just living there for about six months and throughout those six months I would say it only happened maybe three to four times so not as often.
Because you know for a lot of guys the threesome switch in the house might be flicked a few more times than that but anyway I know it's complicated and all that.
So what happened then?
Were you working then or how did that work?
Yes I was working at an insurance company at the time and I made some pretty decent money off that to the point that I practically moved out after six months and found a little studio on my own.
I lived out on my own.
Right.
And did you end the relationship with the creepy Midas couple?
I did.
We did not kept in touch after that.
The last thing I found out, she actually ended up getting pregnant from him.
Well, maybe from him, but yeah, all right.
Well, I would think so.
And so then you moved out and then what happened?
So you were like 20 or so at this point?
I was about 20, I was living on my own and I did meet a nice guy through work and we dated for about a year and I broke things off because I just did not see myself with him at the time.
Oh, no.
Oh, don't tell me that.
Oh, no.
You know what you've just done, Lorena?
You've just blown up the comment section.
Now, do you know why?
Why?
I will tell you why.
Older guys take your virginity who are creeps.
Menage a trois, creepy porn guys end up with threesomes with you.
The nice guy, you dump.
Right?
True.
Why did you dump the nice guy?
So I broke off, I broke it off with him because I, I just, I did not see myself with him.
That is not an answer.
Wait, let me explain it.
Let me explain the answer.
I just, okay.
I felt like what we had at the time, I wasn't ready for it because it was a little bit too much.
He came from a good family and he wanted a family one day and I was just not ready for that responsibility.
And on top of that, he was extremely close with his mom to the point that when we would get into arguments here and there, she would get involved.
Would he run to mommy with problems with his girlfriend?
Correct.
Was he also from the Latino culture?
Yeah.
That's oddly enough.
Next thing you know, there's an Italian guy who's over bonded with his mom and all hell will break loose in the world.
All right.
Yes.
So was it like he was too close, like they were like good friends or too close, like paging Dr. Freud?
Too close to the point that he still lived at home and he was 24 years old at the time.
Yeah, I mean, that's not as uncommon as it used to be, but it really does depend on the circumstances.
But he was a nice guy, right?
He didn't hit you, didn't yell at you.
He was a nice guy, right?
He was, yes, a really nice guy.
And so the issue was that he wanted children at some point, and you dumped him because... Why?
Because, I mean, did you not want to have kids ever?
And that was the...
Oh, at the time I wasn't ready for kids.
No, no, but you said he wanted kids at some point.
At some point, yeah.
So the fact that you didn't want kids at the same time was not a big issue because he didn't want kids with you in the moment, he just at some point, right?
Correct.
What really scared me off, to be honest, is he would say something like, oh, if we ever win the lotto, for example, you know, we're going to buy a big home and our parents are going to live with us.
You know that, right?
And I'm like, whoa.
You know that the odds of... I mean, you worked in insurance.
You're good with numbers.
You know that the odds of winning the lottery is like, if we get struck twice by lightning today, mom's moving in.
It's like, yeah, I think I'll take those odds.
Yeah.
Because what you're saying is, if we don't get struck by lightning twice today, she's not moving in and I'll take those odds too.
Yeah.
So I still don't know why you dumped him.
Mama's boy.
Too much of a mama's boy.
How did that manifest?
I mean, okay, so he went to his mom when you had conflicts and all that, but what else?
Because there are a lot of nice guys out there who get dumped who don't know why and maybe you can explain it.
Honestly, yeah.
That's one of the main reasons.
Yeah, he was just a mama's boy and I just... Sorry to interrupt.
The reason that I'm asking is because you dumped a nice guy to be with a guy who's happy with you doing porn on the Internet.
So, if you've got standards, I want to know where they lie, right?
Because, you know, mama's boy, I don't really know what that means.
Like, how did that manifest itself to the point where it's like, well, I can't be with you because I'm waiting for the guy who's comfy with me doing porn on the Internet.
Um, I just... I think you have mommy issues.
Yeah, I mean, there was... That's just another way of saying mama's boy.
I still don't know what that means.
I mean, people say that about me all the time.
I still don't know what it means.
I mean, at the time, I was just very young.
I just wasn't ready for a big commitment relationship, I guess.
And then I saw myself... I tried to see myself with him at the time, and it was just...
A lot to take in on top of what I was going to do with my family.
None of this is, I couldn't see myself with him, it was a lot to take in.
I mean you were ready for some kind of relationship because you were with the guy for a year.
True.
So again, I'm just trying to figure it out, and if you don't know, we can maybe circle back if more clues come up later, but I just know that there's this belief out there, you probably have never heard it before, but there's this belief out there, Lorena, that nice guys don't get the girl, because the girls like the bad boys.
I don't know if you see, it's a pretty funny picture, it's a four sequence picture, right?
Right.
And it's a woman smiling faintly and underneath it says, nice guy!
Right?
And then there's a woman, she's looking more sexy, her lips are parted, they're redder and she's starting to look like... and it's like, guy with no job, right?
And then, you know, there's like, she's half naked and she's like in a semi-sexual position and it's like, guy with no job, no car, no money, no future, right?
And then she's having a full-on orgasm face and it's like, guy with tattoos, no job, prison record, no pants, you know, this kind of thing, right?
Right.
And so there's this idea that, you know, women complain, oh, there aren't any nice guys around, and they meet a nice guy, they'll date a nice guy, they get bored, or they don't consider him masculine enough because he's nice, and then they dump him for the bad boy.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
So I still don't know why you dumped him.
We can get back to that.
Alright, we'll come back to that.
Unless Scott has, he's had some useful feedback, unless Scott has any thoughts on it.
I just know that she has, you know, she has issues with my mom.
So, you know, I don't think she likes any kind of parental guidance come and get involved in relationships.
And it does freak her out when, uh, when she said that the guy, he wanted his mother to move in with them if they won the lottery.
But it was kind of like, you know, if they got married, that kind of thing, he'd probably at least want his mother to live closer.
Be over all the time and then one day definitely live with them.
And that's just something like I know like she just would just never stand for.
She does not want to do that.
She doesn't want to share her man with a mother.
She'll share her man with another woman.
Well, I didn't really consider him my man-man at that time.
He was just... He was your meal ticket man.
Exactly.
No, and because, you know, for me, like, you're so desperate to get away with your mom that you'll put up with creepy threesome guy.
But then you say, well, see, this guy had mommy issues.
It's like, well, don't you?
Oh, absolutely.
It's like me saying, well, you know, he's just too bald for me.
Just wouldn't...
Okay, so you dumped Mr. Nice Guy for reasons that we don't know but may have something to do with a predilection for bad boys.
We'll get to you Scott in a sec, but then what?
So I was still living on my own in a little studio and then I believe a year after we broke up I met another male, another boy of course.
And you didn't date for that year, is that right?
Here and there, I mean, nothing too crazy.
I mean, I was just more focused on working at the time and just trying to do me.
But I just remember meeting... Trying to do me?
Wait, what do you mean?
Is that an incomplete sentence or something that's an overshare?
No, no.
You find another guy, alright.
Right.
And I met him on Halloween day when I went out trick-or-treating with my mother and my younger brother at the time.
Wait, you're how old?
Early 20s?
Mid 20s?
I was like 21.
Why?
Why are you going trick-or-treating at 21?
No, I was just joining my mom and my little brother.
Oh, so he was... Okay, sorry, I forget the family span.
Okay, so you meet this guy on Halloween.
What's he dressed as?
A mechanic.
All right.
Olly enough, he actually was a mechanic.
Well, actually, if you've ever had car trouble, a mechanic can be pretty terrifying.
Yeah, well, he was pretty resourceful for a few years, that's for sure.
All right, so you meet the mechanic, you start dating, and how does that go?
So we dated for about four and a half years and it was quite interesting because he was a little bit older too.
He was about like five years older than me.
And we got along right off the bat.
We communicated well and we liked each other.
And where was he from?
Nicaragua, actually.
All right.
And he definitely showed me what I really wanted out of life and at the time I thought he wanted the same thing as far as like getting married one day and having kids and of course that never happened.
You mean he talked about it but he never did it?
Right, like I would ask him like okay so What do you want out of life?
Like, do you want to get married, have kids one day?
And he's like, yeah, one day.
Oh yeah, the one day is always the... Yeah, as long as that day is never actually today, sure, one day.
Right, one day.
I plan to be a parent posthumously.
He was pretty skeptical about that and he also had a pretty rough childhood too as well.
He actually was born and raised in Nicaragua and came here at a young age as well.
And the only reason why he came back to the States is because his grandma passed away and he came back here to try and reconnect with his mother, which by the way, left him in Nicaragua to just pretty much have her, her mother, his grandma raised him.
So his mom dumped him in Nicaragua, came to America, Okay, that's terrible.
Right, yeah.
Pretty much, yeah.
It was a sad story to the point that she... Why couldn't America border on England in the 1950s?
Alright, okay, never mind.
To the point that she came here to build her own life because she met a man, married him, and had two other kids of her own with that same man, and pretty much forgot about one of her oldest kids.
Wow, okay.
So, what happened after four and a half years with this guy?
Well, we lived at a certain place and we decided a year into the relationship to move into another city in the same state, just to see if that would help our relationship grow or become closer or Anything, just... Wait, what do you mean?
How does moving cities... I don't understand.
How does that help your relationship?
Probably away from family, I would say.
Oh, okay, okay.
So his family... His mom is like three floors away from the rest of the family.
So, yeah, he came back from Nicaragua to try and connect with his mom and found that she was a cold-hearted monster with all of the emotional capacity of a soap dish, and then he got depressed, right?
Pretty much.
There's more to that, but I don't know.
That's the quick version because, you know, we're still going to get to Scott.
That is the quicker version.
And I met her a few times in our relationship and I just felt this, yeah, like you just said, she's just a very cold-hearted woman.
If you dump your kid and forget about him, I mean, I did this.
There's no other test for, like, that's basic emotional one-on-one.
Okay.
So, after four and a half years, why did you, did you dump him?
Um, so the year before we broke up, I tried to break things off completely.
You tried to?
Yes, I tried to, meaning... Well, you tried somewhere?
Wait, we'll get to that.
We'll get to that.
Well, I remember we were at a local park somewhere and I told them obviously this is not working out.
Moving here was obviously a mistake because It's obviously drifting us apart, and it's not working out.
Like, it's just not.
And was it that you weren't talking?
You weren't doing stuff together?
I mean, what does it mean to drift apart?
It was a little bit of everything, really.
It was just miscommunication, and he was a bit of a dry person, too, as well.
And I'm a very affectionate person.
And we just were not on the same page.
We were just two different people at the time.
He told me, no, no, let's work things out.
Let's try this.
Let's change baby.
Exactly.
I want to make things work.
So we're like, okay, all right, let's do this.
So I believe a month or so after that we decided to look for a house together.
Wow.
So you really weren't waiting to see if it was going to work out.
You're both feet in.
I mean, I, I, I want it.
I really do.
I want to see, okay, let's, let's try to make this happen again.
And so within those six months of no luck looking for a home, we finally ended up, uh, with, uh, with a home and that's very same day when we got the news from the, from the realtor.
Uh, I told him, Hey, so we, we found this home and we, we can close on it type of thing.
And then he told me, I remember he was getting out of the shower and he came up to me.
He's like, I don't think this is going to work.
We need to break up.
And my heart just palmed because he, he pretty much said what I was feeling because he was right about this.
He was right.
He was.
Because I was feeling the same exact way, I really was, and it just apparently came out of his mouth.
So you break up?
We realized that very moment, oh shoot, we just got approved for this house, and this is a 30-year loan.
There's nothing like a commitment to find out if you're committed, right?
Exactly.
Okay, so you broke up with him and then what happened?
So we broke up and we kind of stayed in touch a little bit afterwards because it was a four and a half year relationship.
Yeah, it's a big chunk of your life to just toss in the garbage, right?
Correct, oh yeah, and I realized that for me personally it wasn't healthy to keep a relationship with him because it just wasn't going to go anywhere for me.
No, okay, I get that.
So, what happened after you broke up?
So, after we broke up, I found out four months after that he was seeing someone and he got her pregnant.
He was seeing someone after he broke up with you?
Pretty much, but I'm pretty sure he was already seeing her while we were together.
Do you know when that may have started or do you have any ideas?
Within the year that, the same year that we broke up.
And do you think he got her pregnant or she got pregnant deceptively?
I believe she just got pregnant deceptively.
Yeah.
Oops.
Forgot the pill.
Forgot to mention it.
Hello, daddy.
So then what happened with your life?
So after that, I, I began dating a little bit more and And this is, what age range are we talking here?
Late 20s?
Yes, late 20s.
Are you starting to smell the wall?
Do you find yourself drawn to Roger Waters albums?
Do you find yourself looking at Italian construction pictures?
I mean, is the wall looming for you at this point?
A little bit.
Because you like TikTok, right?
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
So how does that change your dating approach, right?
Because if you're like, okay, I can't, I don't have another four and a half years to squander on something that doesn't work out long term.
So how does that, does that change the kind of guy you're looking for?
I mean, how does that?
Yes.
And this comes across to the next guy that I actually dated for a little bit as well.
So we, I met this new guy and he, he was really nice to the point that I actually saw myself with him and I'm like, Hmm.
I liked him.
I liked him.
We connected pretty well and what was a challenge there because he already had an eight-year-old son.
And where was he from?
Caucasian.
Okay.
And unfortunately things didn't work out with us because I felt like our relationship of getting to know each other didn't go as planned, like I wanted to get to know him better before I had met his son.
And I felt like I met his son way too soon into the relationship.
How long into the relationship did you meet his son?
Like a month.
Right.
And then I believe the relationship only lasted like about three.
Three months.
And why did you end it?
I ended it.
Maybe he did, but I doubt it.
No, I did.
I ended it because he I was having baby mama drama with the mother of his child, of course.
That's always something.
And I pictured myself with him if we had a child.
And that's all it was.
I just felt like his first family was always going to be first.
And you know that feeling from your step-siblings, right?
Correct.
I knew that feeling right off the bat.
How bad was the baby mama drama?
It was... I mean, they got along okay, but I just felt like they obviously need to work more on things as far as him spending more time with his kid or... I mean, honestly, it did just... Didn't the kid have disciplinary issues?
Oh, yeah.
He was spoiled, too.
He was very spoiled.
And there are times where I would suggest something, like... Well, Caucasian kids can often look spoiled to Hispanic people, right?
Oh, absolutely.
Because Caucasians don't hit their kids as much.
Correct.
And the funny thing is his baby mama is actually Hispanic, too.
He might have a type.
Oh, definitely.
5'4", Hispanic, brown, yeah.
Those white chicks got no back.
So I just felt like I would always be second in his life.
And if we had a child, too, we would always be second.
So I would always be fighting to be first or just to be involved, but obviously his son... Well, he'd also made a bad choice for the mother of his son, right?
So unless he'd gone through a lot of therapy or self-knowledge pursuit, people repeat bad behavior until they expend massive amounts of resources to change it.
Right.
Like the best predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior every single time.
I had a bad childhood, I'm a great dad, but I had to spend a lot of money and time in therapy to turn that shit around.
Oh yeah.
Okay, so then what happened?
So, things ended there.
And a few months after that, I met my now husband.
Wait, wait!
Sorry, can we back up for a sec?
Yeah.
A thought just struck me.
White guy.
Hispanic wife.
Would she, by chance, from outside America?
I'm not sure, to be honest.
But she could have been, like your mom, trying to get a green card.
Anyway, if you don't know, you don't know.
Just popped into my head.
I don't know.
So then, the wall, inching closer.
Inching closer.
Like a wall of ice in the face of a caveman.
And then what?
Things ended there.
We didn't keep in touch after that, of course.
Sure.
Three months.
I did, however, found out later on that he ended up meeting another Hispanic who had two kids of her own and ended up getting her pregnant.
And that was that.
Yeah.
Alright.
Excellent.
Excellent.
All right.
And then?
And then that same year, I met my now husband.
And how much older than you is Scott?
I'm actually older than him by two years.
Hey!
Broken pair!
Yeah!
Good for you.
Good for you.
I know he's got that baby voice.
Actually, now it sounds like Barry White taking it.
All right.
Okay, so how did you guys meet?
I'll let you tell the story.
We actually did online dating.
There was a dating app and it kind of matched you up with, um, yeah, all the likes and all that kind of stuff.
So we were a match and a lot of stuff.
We started talking and we just got along and we just clicked.
And, uh, you know, two days after that we met and we just spent all night talking and it was just, A wonderful connection.
Like, I actually knew right then and there.
Like, I just wanted to spend the rest of my life with her.
I just knew.
And how long ago was that?
That was four years ago.
All right.
So let's fast forward a smidge.
Oh no, let's back up a sec from Scott.
So you said you were from outside America, is that right?
That's correct, yes.
I'm not going to guess from the accent because it seems to be wandering all over the place British Isles-wise, but where is that?
I'm from the UK, but I've been in America for almost my whole life.
Right, okay.
And what was your childhood like, Scott?
Well, it was interesting.
I'm a single mother.
My dad actually died when I was a baby.
Technically, that's a widow then.
Yeah, yeah.
No, no, I want to make that clear because people are always like, what about if the father dies?
It's like, well, that's terrible.
It's a tragedy.
Does not make her a single mother, makes her a widow.
Okay.
All right.
Well, thank you for that correction.
Uh, yeah.
Well, so, uh, widow.
How did he die?
A car crash.
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the, the sad thing though, like kind of growing up when I kind of asked my mom about him, She wouldn't really tell me good things about him.
Apparently he wasn't a nice guy.
He would kind of hit her.
Was he drinking when he was driving?
No, no.
Nothing like that.
I just think he just had anger issues.
I don't think he really drank or anything like that.
He probably had a stressful job.
All I know is from his part, he was raised and his family wasn't really good to him.
They would beat him.
All this kind of stuff.
So I'm guessing how, you know, he was raised, that's the kind of the guy he was.
So he would beat my mom.
And, uh, I mean, this is all from my mom's point of view, which now, you know, I can maybe, it sounds really bad, but I can kind of maybe see his point of view as well.
But, uh, yeah, she just always... Wait, what is his point of view?
Um, well, my mom, she can, When she gets a rage fit, she goes insane.
It's not normal.
I remember you saying about your mum... She's not Scottish, is she?
She's actually English, but my dad was Scottish.
She has that Scottish anger, let's put it that way.
She would go absolutely insane and she could pick up a phone call and be like, hello!
And nothing happened.
It wasn't you who sent me that message, was it?
No.
So I was pointing this out in a recent call in about how my mom would be screaming at me and then the phone would be like, hi.
You know, like it's really schizo.
And somebody had sent me a message like, oh my God, like I listened to that.
And like my mom was exactly, I got a bunch of messages.
It wasn't you, but okay.
Yeah.
We've seen this kind of weird formless personality, which is like completely dominant and psycho and then can, you know, turn on a dime and become sweet as sugar.
And yeah, it's really terrifying to see.
And very humiliating because it's like, okay, so you could be nice.
You're just being a bitch because you feel like it, but you could turn around like that.
It's just that I'm not a guy who can give you resources.
So it doesn't work.
It doesn't matter to me, right?
I don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, there was a time where, um, cause I would tell my wife this kind of stuff and It was like one time last year.
Don't tell your wife.
You mean right now, right?
Former marriage?
Yes.
Don't skip around time-wise for me, man.
Sorry.
Let's stay in the domino order.
Let's go back to childhood.
We'll get to your first marriage in a sec.
No problem.
So did your mom, this sort of screaming rage stuff, was it common?
Was it rare?
What provoked it?
Do you know?
The thing is, I don't really know what provoked it because, you know, she didn't have a job.
My dad had a pension that would pay my mom up until I was like 18 years old, right?
And he had a really good job.
Did he work for the government?
No, no, he was like one of the top salesmen in insurance and I guess he was so good that they would pay my mom a pension.
Yeah, I mean, I'm like, okay, and I don't know if she got money from the government as well, because she was, you know, no man in the house, you know, had a kid, that kind of thing.
Was it just you?
It was just me.
Did she die after your father died?
Uh, not until I was probably like maybe five, six years old.
Uh, I remember, you know, a guy that she was dating and he would just, he would come over and he would bring me an action man, which was like a GI Joe here.
And I wasn't really into them, but every time he came over, he'd buy me a new one.
You play with this kid, I'll play with mom.
Pretty much.
So I had a collection, so I was quite happy.
I would just play with them.
But then I found out that he actually had a wife and a family and my mom was like the side one.
She didn't know.
And I just, she found out and was all upset.
And I don't think she dated for years after that.
Wow.
So your mom has terrible judgment.
And I guess you've both been involved with witnessing or being the side piece.
All right.
And so it wasn't until years after that until I was around about maybe eight years old and she tried to start dating again.
Uh, I just remember a couple of guys and they were nice.
I just remember one, he was an alcoholic and as soon as she found that out, she cut him out.
And, and, uh, then she met my stepdad and he was actually a great guy.
Um, when it comes to like step parents, sometimes they can kind of push you aside a little bit, not really take you under their wing, treat you like they're, you know, like you're their kid.
But my dad actually, as I call him, Yeah, he just from the get-go just treated me like I was a part of his family, because he had a son and a daughter as well.
So he was a single dad?
Yes, he had a divorce.
Okay, because I have to pause and ask the question here, which I usually have to ask at this point.
And the question is this.
If he was a great guy, what was he doing with an emotionally volatile verbally abusive widow I Asked myself that to this day because he's actually extremely smart.
He went to like a special school because he was so smart and So I still kind of wonder that today.
I don't know how he can do it because my mom your mother pretty very pretty or yeah, you know, she's not like some weird set Kama Sutra voodoo that keeps him hypnotized or I Yeah, I mean, she's good looking.
I mean, she's Ginger.
I don't like Gingers.
So, I mean, I can't really... I'll be biased there, but... So, Ginger, 12 minutes to Islam conversion.
But anyway... I know.
But, yeah, I mean, for her age, I mean, you know, she had a good body, was good looking.
I mean, his ex-wife, I saw her and Jesus Christ, she looks horrible.
Alright, so he got a form and function upgrade with your... Yes, exactly.
Did they have any kids together?
No, no.
Right.
Okay.
So we don't know why he would end up with your mom, who does not sound like a highly quality based dating partner, but he did and he treated you well and that's good, right?
Yeah.
I mean, I think at that point I really needed a male figure.
I was lucky growing up because my uncle, he wasn't really my uncle, but he was my godfather.
He was my dad's best friend.
And he would actually come over every Saturday and just take me out for a whole day and he would just teach me history of like the UK and history around the world and he would be trying to be like the father figure and I adored that I really needed that.
Did your father die in the crash or in the hospital?
I don't know.
Because I wonder if it's possible if your godfather was somehow present when your father died and your father got a promise out of him to take care of you.
It could be.
He did say that.
He did promise my dad that he would take care of me.
And he did up until the point that my dad, my stepdad, kind of came into the picture.
Because then he's like, you know, I'll let him, you know, kind of take over.
Because it would be kind of awkward at that point, you know?
Right.
Okay, so your stepdad took over and are they still together?
Oh yes, they're still together.
Right, okay.
All right.
And your Childhood, with regards to discipline, your mum was a screamer, as you were saying.
Was she a hitter?
Oh, yeah.
She would smack me over the back of the head.
Like, I actually have a flat belt on the back of my head.
It's actually from, I guess, when you're a baby and you lay the baby the wrong way, you have a flat belt.
But everyone actually used to joke it's because my mum used to smack me over the back of the head.
And it was, it was kind of traumatic, like, to the point that if I'm writing something to this day and if someone stands over me, I get all shaky and I can't concentrate.
Oh yeah, straight up PTSD.
I mean the number of people walking around with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from childhood is, well it's legion.
It's most of the world's population and certainly just about everybody in the third world.
I'm sorry about that.
And was there rhyme or reason?
Was there predictability?
Was there avoidability?
Or was it just like, she's pissed?
Um, I grew up with dyslexia.
So, and it was really bad to the point that I couldn't really write my own name until I was like eight years old.
It was really bad.
And you know, she did try and figure out ways to try and help me, but it was one of them things where she would try and figure something out and then stand over me.
And then when I couldn't get it, she'd be like, Oh, come on, come on.
Uh, why can't you get this?
And then she would just kind of like smack me on the back of the head when I did something wrong.
Yeah, you know when children are struggling with learning something it is a power invitation for the parent and you have to resist it because it's very unfair.
But I guess she didn't resist it as well as she should have.
Yeah, she didn't have enough patience and I just remember like horrible things like there was a salesman that convinced my mom to buy this like thousands it was like it was worth thousands, but it was Like this home video tutor kit.
And it was some like Australian lady, you know, trying to teach you how to do math and stuff.
And I hated it because I'm like, I don't know what the hell she's saying.
She has a weird accent and you know, I couldn't get it.
And my mom was upset because she spent all this money.
So it was like my fault, you know?
And I, I just hate that, that everything was kind of my fault.
It was never her fault.
Yeah.
Never heard that before with a woman, but all right.
Um, and did you have any, um, Premature sexual experiences as a child?
No, I mean, I think, you know, I probably... I think I was always, like, playing with myself as a kid, and my parents would be like, well, my nan would be like, you know, put that away, kind of thing, and stuff like that, but, you know, I probably started masturbating when I was, like, 11 or 12, and, you know, I did that up until I lost my virginity at probably, like, I think I was 17.
Right, right, okay.
And did you date much teenager twenties?
Um, no, not really.
Um, I think when I really started dating, it was around, you know, about 16, 17 years old.
And, um, I dated an older girl.
Um, you know, she was actually two years older than me and, um, I'm really good at like kind of sales.
So I was actually able to kind of sell her on why she should kind of date me.
And I was able to kind of lose my virginity to her, you know, and it was like an older girl, she was a senior, so I was like really happy.
You've got your father's sales gene.
Yeah, right?
He sure did.
But then after she kind of found out kind of like what grade I was in, how old I was, she kind of then ditched me because she was going to college, so.
Well, and she'd rather go to college than say jail, so.
Yeah.
Plus she actually ended up marrying a Navy SEAL which did not make me feel good because I was like god damn That's a big upgrade and I can't say anything.
He'd probably kill me Okay, so Is there anything you wanted to mention before?
Before you meet Lorraine.
Oh you had a first marriage, right?
No, no, I've never been married before.
Okay, so before you meet Lorraine is there anything important that you wanted to mention about that time frame?
Yeah, actually When I was like 17 going on 18, I dated this girl and we actually were together about 4 years.
What she kind of did for me was she kind of opened my eyes to a lot of stuff.
showed me like, you know, how my mom is.
Um, because before then I really didn't think there was any problems with my mom.
Like, you know, uh, she would tell me like, you know, why, why do you have to like shower and do all your hair a perfect way?
Dress up nice just to go outside and take the dog a walk for five minutes.
And I'm like, well, it's because you know, the neighbors might see.
And then if the, if I don't look good, then they'll judge my mom.
Right.
And then when she like, you know, think about that.
Does people look out the window at you?
And I'm like, no.
And then she just got me like, you know, does it really matter?
Like kind of like what you look like when you just go take a dog walk.
And she just, she broke things down and made me kind of look at things in a different way.
And up to that point, you know, almost 18 years old, I was never able to rebel.
Like I wasn't able to do anything like change my hair or anything like that.
I would have to be, Mother's little boy.
Hang on, hang on.
Okay, so how old were you when your stepdad came into the picture?
I was nine.
So why the hell isn't your stepdad helping you rebel?
He didn't want to step in that.
No, no, no.
Come on, come on.
No, no.
No.
That's not a reasonable thing to say.
Because if you say, well, you're close, and he's a great guy, and he was like a dad to me and so on, but one of the jobs of a dad is to peel the mom off the kid a bit.
I mean, it's natural for moms to baby kids too long, and it's the job of the dad to say, you know, hey, time to loosen the old umbilical noose and let the kid roam a little, right?
Yeah, I mean, That never happened, and I remember at one point... That's not something that happened, like the sun comes up tomorrow, that happens, right?
Yeah.
Your stepdad did not do his job in supporting you in pushing back against your mom a little.
In the healthiest families, this is natural and inevitable, so I'm not criticizing even your family structure, although it's certainly more the case probably in a family structure like yours.
My question is, why Was it a girl who taught you to question your mother, or to gain some masculine independence from your mother, and not your stepdad, who is actually a dude?
Yeah, I... I have no clue in that.
And I remember one time... I do!
Oh, please, tell us.
Because he's scared of her!
Because she's a verbal bully!
He doesn't want to get in trouble, so he'd rather you be cocked and castrated than he get in trouble with the screaming harpy bitch.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
I'm happy to hear that I'm wrong, but it seems fairly simple to me.
You're not wrong.
I can safely say you're not wrong.
All right, good.
Because, you know, occasionally it's a... I'm shooting arrows over a barn here sometimes, right?
So sometimes it hits the barn, sometimes it goes into my leg, strangely enough, and sometimes it hit a target, so I'm glad that I did.
Okay, so she wears the pants, he's scared, and that's something you're not conscious of.
Yeah, I wasn't like up until I was 18 at least.
No, I'm talking about right now.
Because you had no clue as to why he didn't support you in gaining some independence from your mom.
And when I pointed it out, you both got it right away, so I'm just pointing this out.
Which meant he had a terrifying mom, and your mom just happens to fit into that slot, so to speak.
And that's something you need to be aware of, because it means that your... Men's fear of women is something that is not often discussed.
It's not discussed nearly enough.
But women can be terrifying, and particularly modern women, where they have the power of the state on their side, and they have the power of the media on their side, and all the feminist harpies on their side.
So we have turned into a dictatorship, right?
Like a female Yeah.
dictatorship and It is something which we need to discuss more of we don't have to do it necessarily in this show But I'm just saying that being aware of that is very important women scream for a reason why because it works And why does it work because men are scared and why are they scared because their mom screamed at them and because they've seen Guys get divorce raped in family courts and and so female aggression has gone off the charts these days because it really really really works Yeah, plus of senior throw a sink at him to
So she's more than a screamer.
She's physically violent and abusive I mean, I don't honestly see her hitting him, but that was just that one time.
No, no, throwing a sink at someone could kill them.
Yeah.
No, that is a kind of attempted murder.
Yeah.
I mean, tell me I'm just kidding.
That I'm not wrong about.
No.
Right now, if that was on video, that she throws a sink at him, she would go to jail for years.
Yeah.
The scarier thing was that she actually picked up the phone after that, too, and was all nice and messy.
I have no doubt.
I have no doubt.
But so, she is a woman who has attempted to murder your stepdad.
Yeah.
And your stepdad is like, yeah, sounds great.
I'm sticking around for this.
But he's a great guy.
Don't worry.
He's a great guy.
Yeah, his ex-wife was worse, so... Oh, so he's been serially abused by women?
Yeah, like his ex-wife actually threatened to kill my mother at their wedding, too, so... Sorry, his ex-wife threatened to murder your mother at the wedding?
Yeah, in the bathroom, like, you know... Yeah, it's not funny, man.
Yeah, well, I mean, it's...
British culture.
No, no.
I grew up in England.
That's not British culture.
Don't, don't blame the whole country for that.
You know, honor killings, not yet British culture on its way, but not yet.
Uh, so you, his, he, he'd married a woman who committed another criminal action, which was to threaten murder on.
Yeah, because, um, they wanted to come over to America and, uh, you know, She was a mother of the two kids and didn't want, you know, the father to leave and go to America with a new family.
Yeah, there's no because for death threats, right?
Yeah.
There's no justification for death threats.
Okay, so you've got some shit to learn about your family, right?
Which hopefully we're touching on here.
Yeah.
All right.
Because this is important, right?
Because what I'm looking for in these conversations is the stuff you don't know that you don't know.
Right?
Because the stuff we know, we know.
The stuff that we know, we don't know, we can go look up.
The stuff we don't know, we don't know.
That's the stuff that gets us, right?
Particularly with families.
Yeah.
All right.
And is there anything else that you wanted to mention, Scott, before we get to the present?
Well, I do remember one time when I did want to rebel and it was probably around about maybe, you know, probably 11 years old, maybe 12 years old.
And I went on vacation with my mom and my grandma and we went to Spain.
My dad had to obviously work so he didn't go and I was kind of raised with my grandma, you know, because my mom needed help kind of thing.
So we went over on vacation and the one thing I hated was the teacher at school just said, hey, you know, We want you to write down what you've done on your vacation each day.
Oh yeah, you can't just have fun.
It's like your stupid summer vacation.
I remember when I was in grade 8, I was put into a grade 13 writing class, and I had to read a whole bunch of books over the summer.
I did read Kerouac's On the Road, but a bunch of others I was supposed to read over the summer, and it's like, ugh, I really don't want to do this.
It's like the essays on your vacation.
You can't just go have fun, you've got to write about it later.
Well, it was actually during the school year.
That's the reason why the teacher wanted me to... And all it was, was just, you know, write something down about what you did during the day.
But what my mom wanted me to do each morning was do it in the morning.
So I don't know how... I kept on trying to explain to her, like, how can I, you know, write a story about what I did during the day?
In the morning, yeah.
Woke up!
Woke up!
Hey, I'm done!
And she didn't like that, kept on yelling at me, would hit me, and then to the point I had enough and I ran away.
And I remember running into the stair area and I was gone for hours to the point that everyone was looking for me.
All the British people that were there all got together, they're all looking around, the police were called.
And eventually I went down to the front desk where everyone was.
And then when my mom saw me, she was like crying, all that kind of stuff, and then grabbed me and was, you know, hugging me.
And so was my man.
But then the second they actually got me around the corner, they just started just fucking building the shit out of me, like smacking my legs, my head, everything.
They know how to act in public to look like loving humans.
It's how you know they're stone evil.
Because they know exactly what they should do, which is they should hug you and they should apologize for whatever happened that drove you away.
Because running away in a foreign country is no small deal for a kid and they don't want to do it on the hill.
But of course, they know how to behave like loving mothers.
They just choose not to do so when they are in private.
So, that's just you.
And the worst thing was, like, my mom was like, you embarrassed me, you know, all this kind of stuff.
Now everyone is going to be looking at me, and, you know... Judge her?
Yeah, it was all about judging my mom, and it's like, you know, like, we didn't even talk about what happened, you know?
No, of course not.
No, I get it.
No, I know this petty side of human nature, and particularly female nature.
It's hideous, and it puts anonymous strangers above her own flesh and blood.
It's ridiculous.
People get mad and talk to my mom for like 20 years.
People are like, oh, you should talk to your mom.
Talk to your mom.
It's like, no.
She chose the eyeballs of random strangers over the allegiance of her son because she would beat me if she felt embarrassed by something.
She chose her allegiance, man.
She chose her allegiance.
And her allegiance was anonymous strangers.
So now she can call up all these anonymous strangers and say, oh I'm sick, I need to go to the hospital, I need to be driven, I need someone to come take care of me.
Because that was her priority, was her relationship with anonymous strangers.
So now she can go harvest all of these anonymous eyeballs and she can use them as resources for her old age.
It's like when I put a A cup on a table, and it left a little white ring.
I didn't even know it could do that, but it left a little white ring on the table, and she beat the crap out of me, right?
And it's like, okay, well, she still has that table, so she can look at that table and say, well, at least there aren't any more white rings, or, like, she doesn't have a son, but she has a nice table.
And so she can look at that table in her old age and say, well, these anonymous people I beat my son up for and this table I beat my son up for and all the other countless things she put as higher priority over me.
It's like, you've got tables and you've got anonymous people if you want them.
Maybe they don't care.
Probably don't.
Probably half of them are dead.
But this is your priority and you have to live with it.
And so people get mad at me and it's like, well, I don't understand.
She made her choice.
She chose a table over me.
Now she's got the table.
Why should she complain?
Yeah.
So when I started kind of realizing most of this and kind of seeing my mother for who she was and then I wanted to try and kind of find my own identity of course my mom she looked at the girl who I was with and the older girl well no she wasn't older she was a year younger than me but she was just very smart for her age
Oh, sorry, the girl, I'm just, it was the first, the older girl you lost your virginity to, then there's this girl who was younger who was turning you on to some of your mom's craziness?
Yes, that's correct.
Yeah, so your mom would view her as an out-and-out enemy, right?
Yeah, and because she wasn't like, you know, a little skinny blonde girl or whatever, she was of Asian descent, but she was brown and a little bit thick.
When you say Asian, do you mean Indian or Chinese?
Like Thai.
She was from Thailand.
But she was a little thick.
So, you know, my mom was always obsessed about being skinny.
And so she didn't really like her because the girl kind of, you know, she had curves, so she kind of flaunted the curves.
I mean, she didn't wear anything skimpy, but she was afraid of being skinny.
And she knew who she was.
And so my mom didn't like that.
In other cultures, in non-Western cultures, people can talk honestly about female nature.
You know, like in Japan and China, they can talk honestly about race and IQ, and it's one of the reasons why their cultures are the way they are.
And in non-white cultures, you can talk a lot about the dark side of female nature.
But in Western cultures, that's just become verboten.
You can't talk about that topic.
And that's terrible.
And of course, the only reason we want to not talk about that topic is to serve evil women.
Evil women run the culture.
Evil women run the culture, without a doubt, these days.
You know, the old saying, if you want to know who rules over you, look at who you're not allowed to criticize.
Well, I get, you know, I can criticize Jews and it's fine.
But you criticize women, though.
I mean, it's women.
And you're criticizing female nature or the possibility for evil in female nature.
That's what gets you the most in trouble.
And that is where the dictatorship is at the moment.
So, yeah, that doesn't make my... I mean, it's not shocking to me that it was somebody from another culture who was able to tell you more about female nature.
Yeah, and actually it's kind of mind-boggling that you're telling me that now.
I can actually see that.
But it was tough because obviously my mom felt that as like a threat, that she was going to lose me, you know?
She was your threat?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it was more than a threat, right?
I mean, if you wake up to your mom, she will lose you.
And that's not because of what she did.
It's because of what she won't do in the future, which is apologize and take ownership.
So, if someone comes along to you, if you have a bad or evil mom or dad, someone comes along and starts talking about it...
They have nothing to fear if they're willing to apologize, because a sincere apology can heal just about anything.
Not always, but you know, I mean, assuming it's not absolutely egregious child rape or something.
But a sincere apology and a commitment to change and growth and all of that can go a million miles and work biblical wonders in the world.
But when people say, oh, this person is trash, is talking badly about me to my son, the reason they're afraid of losing you is they know they will never change, and they have no intention of changing and no desire to change, So the only variable that can change is getting rid of the quote bad influence on you, right?
Yeah, I see that.
And because I had such like an impact on my awakening and I wanted to rebel and my mom was fighting that, there was so much stress and so many arguments and that she made me feel so terrible about myself that I actually ended up getting cancer.
How old were you?
I was 18.
Holy crap!
And you think it was stress-related?
I think so, because... No family history?
No weird life habits or anything?
No, no.
Actually, I don't smoke.
I don't drink.
I don't do any drugs.
What kind of cancer did you get?
I had testicular cancer.
Testicular cancer?
Yeah, which is not fun for an 18-year-old kid, because... Did you end up having anything removed?
Yeah, actually...
It was scary because, um, you know, I went to the doctor and they're like, well, we're not really sure what it is.
Um, we'll take this and we'll monitor it and see if it grows in a couple of days.
And in a couple of days it went from like probably like half a millimeter to like a centimeter and a half.
Holy shit.
Yeah.
And they're like, yeah, you need to get into surgery right now before it spreads your abdomen.
And then you might have to go for chemo, all this kind of stuff.
So I got rushed into surgery.
They hacked off one of my balls and one ball in there, but at the time I felt like, you know, you kind of feel like less of a man, you know?
And it was really, really hard and impacting on me because I didn't know what happened.
And now, you know, like doing research, I have actually talked to people from different countries that have come over to America.
And then after a few years, they ended up getting cancer and they think it's maybe the food.
I personally think it was distress.
Well, I mean, I hate to be the guy to point out the blindingly obvious, but if you were writing a novel and you wanted to make a medical analogy for a devouring, destructive, vicious mother destroying the manhood of her child, testicular cancer is exactly what you'd make, right?
Yeah, and it was really tough.
I kind of just felt like every time I rebelled, something bad would happen.
And tell him how she would make you feel after that.
Yeah, I mean, she would just tell me how much everything cost.
What an inconvenience it is to her, you see, that you run well.
Now, the fact that your stepdad didn't divorce the shit out of your mother when she's treating you like crap when you have cancer that she might've given you, tells me everything I need to know about your lovely stepdad.
Yeah, he was... Now, who stands up for you?
Uh, no one.
He doesn't stand up for me.
Um, you know... Yeah, she dragged his spine out and shredded it through his dick, so there's not much left there.
Yeah.
All right.
Okay, so in the interest of time, let's get to the present.
And I really, really appreciate that back story.
It's very important.
So how did you end up doing internet pornography?
Well, you know, we both had, you know, our both day jobs.
Unfortunately, I actually work for my family, which I always wanted kind of a way out of that.
You've been struggling for independence and you work for your family.
Yes.
Correct.
Yeah.
Why?
Did they pay more than you could get anywhere else?
Why?
No, they guilted me into it.
I... I... I'm sorry, they what you into it?
They guilted me into it.
No, no, no, they didn't.
No, you're an adult.
No, no, no.
No, don't put that willpower on them.
No, no.
You made a choice.
You made the choice.
Right.
They tried to guilt you into it, but you're the one who has to say yes, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so they kept on telling me for years to join the family business.
I always didn't want to do that.
I wanted to go do my own thing.
Funny enough, I went into sales and I was extremely successful in sales.
I made a good amount of money.
I had my own... Okay, sorry.
I really have to do in the interest of time here, okay?
Sorry.
So in the interest of time, how did you end up doing internet pornography?
We just wanted to make some extra money.
And we figured, you know, because my wife had $40,000 worth of student loans.
For what degree?
The beauty industry.
Yeah, the beauty industry.
Her mother kind of pushed her into it.
The beauty industry?
Yeah.
What do you mean?
Well, at the time, I first went to school for massage therapy.
You had a job at an insurance company.
Did you not want any career like that?
No, because I knew it was just something that I just needed a job to pay the bills at that time and everything was going on at that time.
I was going to school full-time.
What time are we talking here?
I was about 20, 21.
Okay, sorry, let's fast forward to your late 20s.
Right.
Did you want to have kids at some point?
I did, of course.
So why on earth would you go back to school in your late 20s if you want to have kids?
No, I never went back to school in my late 20s.
Oh, this is the early 20s?
This is the early 20s, yeah.
I finished school in my early 20s and I unfortunately ended up with that debt, but I never went back to school.
How do you end up with $40,000 in debt for beauty school?
I... It wasn't originally $40,000.
Let's put it this way.
It was a lot smaller than that.
And her mom, you know, she didn't look at the interest rate or anything because she just told her to sign it.
Wait, who did?
Oh, okay.
So, okay.
Your wife didn't, right?
Lorena didn't look at the interest rate or anything.
Right.
I was... She didn't understand.
I did not understand.
Fair enough.
I'm like, okay, I'm gonna bring my mother to this college to help me make a decision.
Because, you know... No, but you hated your mother and you slept with a guy to get away from her.
So, why would you bring your mother to a... Like, you were willing to have threesomes just to get away from the guy you didn't really like, just to get away from your mother.
So, why is she making financial decisions?
I'm missing something here.
I guess I still needed some kind of...
Guidance from her, if she had any.
But you worked at the insurance company!
You know how to do math, right?
Right.
So, again, just help me understand what I'm missing.
Worst woman ever!
Worst mother ever!
I had to run or get away!
Oh, and now she's helping me sign documents to get into massive amounts of debt.
Like, I don't... What am I missing?
Help me out.
I just felt like I needed some support.
Some kind of support.
Just her being there to help me make a decision.
And obviously it was the wrong one.
And how long did you go to school for to get this kind of debt?
A year and a half.
18 months?
40k?
Yeah.
What?
Biggest scam ever.
Holy shit.
Yeah.
And did you learn anything that helped you get a job?
Yeah, she does that at like... Oh yeah, that's what I do now.
Okay, but if it helps you get a job, Why are you still in debt, I guess, close to 10 years later?
She did like a deferral.
So I would say like, oh, if you don't want to pay anything right now, we can defer it for a year or so.
And then so she kept on doing that.
Yeah, I kept postponing the payments.
Yeah.
But weren't you continuing to pay?
I mean, people don't just let you postpone payments when they still charge you interest.
It was a forbearance loan.
And then you send whatever you can at the time, or you don't have to send anything at all.
No, but don't they keep charging you interest when you defer?
Yes, they do, yes.
So why would you do that?
Terrible at math.
No, no, no.
If you listen to this show, you don't get the dumb card.
Sorry, you just don't.
So why would you do that?
She didn't want to deal with that at the moment.
She kind of figured she'd be prepared.
Nobody wants to... I don't want to get up and go to a job so I just rob the bank, you know?
Nobody wants to deal with debt and wants to deal with interest.
But it's like nobody wants to brush their teeth, but that doesn't mean you end up with everybody with their teeth rotting.
Why did you just keep deferring it?
Oh, I know why!
I know why!
V-Power.
Because you can get a man to pay your debt.
You just have to stall it to the point where you can hook a guy with sex and then he'll pay your debt, right?
Hmm.
Am I wrong?
Because you got out of your mom's place by having sex with a guy.
So he gave you a free rent and whatever, right?
So maybe you just thought, well, I don't... Why would I have to pay for this?
I have a vagina.
It's one way to look at it.
Well, if I'm wrong, tell me, but it just seems odd, like, that you would just keep deferring something and let the interest accumulate.
Like, how are you expected to pay it off?
Yeah, I think she realized that maybe one day she'll be married, there'll be... Magic penis pay!
Yeah!
MPP!
Yeah.
But between the student loans and then... No, this is one of the reasons why women get into stupid debt.
Yeah.
It's because they're like, ah, just... I can have sex for money and the guy can pay it off.
Yeah, and between that and like credit card debts that... Wait, there's credit card debt too?
Yes.
And how much might that be?
It's not like, it's like $20,000, but that was, it was over time with deaths in the family... But it's $20,000, but what, 18% interest?
Yeah, I believe so, yeah.
It was, I had to go back and forth out of the country and there was deaths in the family, you know, and at the time we didn't have, we didn't make enough money... Wait, sorry, whose credit card debt was it?
It was ours, actually.
Oh, combined.
Yeah, it was combined, yeah.
So why are you living beyond your means?
We weren't at the time.
No, no.
If you're a dad, you are.
Yeah, now we are.
At the time, we didn't expect any deaths in the family, and it was kind of like one after another.
No, no, but don't blame the dad for your debt.
That's not fair.
Because if you have sudden expenses, you know what you do?
Yeah.
on other stuff, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You stop doing other, oh no, I had to fix my car for $1,000.
Well, I guess I'm not going out to eat for the next six months, right?
Yeah.
So, no, this is interesting because you both have this magical thinking about money, right?
Which is, well, we'll just defer $20,000 in credit card debt, right?
Because my question is, how did you end up getting into doing porn on the internet?
And the answer seems to be, we're in debt.
That's one of the reasons?
Yeah, it was one of the main reasons, simply because we wanted to find an extra way to pay off the debt, and we wanted to build up our savings, and we wanted to get into real estate.
So we wanted to have a good credit score, we didn't want to have any bad debts.
Wait, don't you want to have kids?
We do want to have kids.
That's the reason why we want to get into real estate.
So, what's all these big plans about real estate and like porn and like... Well, right now... Don't you just cut back on your expenses and have kids?
Like, what am I missing?
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry if I'm completely dense and I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but if you want to have kids, don't you just like... Don't you just like really cut back on your expenses and have kids?
Yeah.
You know, do that.
We just feel that, like, right now, I don't have the freedom away from my family that I want.
You know, if we make enough money, I cannot work for my parents.
We want to be stay-at-home parents.
We want to be stay-at-home parents.
No, but you're in debt.
Yes.
So how can you be stay-at-home parents if you're in debt?
I mean, one of you should be, obviously, right?
I mean, it would be Lorena, but...
If you are in a situation where you're $60,000 in debt, which is significant, especially if it's... I assume that the student loan at this point is not the lowest interest in the world, right?
No.
Right, no.
What's the student loan interest debt?
I'd say about... 6% or 8%, I believe?
Wait, you don't know your... No, come on!
Come on!
Don't do this to me!
You don't know the interest on your student debt?
I say about ten percent.
We've gone from six to ten?
Yes.
Okay.
Scott, do you know what the interest is on your wife's student loan debt?
I don't know.
What is wrong with you?
No, I'm serious.
You listen to this show.
Why don't you know these things?
I know.
I was kind of scared to look, to be honest.
Okay.
I understand that too, but you kind of have to, don't you?
I mean, you're trying to figure out what to do with your lives.
Don't you need to know what the interest rate is so you know what to pay off and how and when and whether to put money in extra?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, uh, I, uh, I always try to, you know, give her a little bit, you know, more power over things when I should really kind of step in and kind of take over.
I just feel kind of bad that I always have to do that with everything.
And I realize now that I should come in more and deal with them situations.
Right.
So who first brought up the idea of internet porn?
We both did, really.
Yeah, it was... No, that's too much of a coincidence.
Come on.
Jinx!
We both said the same thing at the same time after being together for years.
Someone comes up with it first.
Who was that?
I think, well, because, you know, we'd watch it together, and then we would see, like, you know, this amateur stuff, and at the time it was, they would come out where they would be paying these amateurs, and these amateurs would be making money based on views.
And, you know, we joked, like, oh... Like, is it through ads, or how does that work?
Yeah, it was originally like through ads and that kind of stuff and we just like, oh, we could totally do that.
But, um, we didn't, we, we make videos on our own and it was kind of fun, but when we actually decided, well, you know, we could probably do this.
We also want to come up with something that's different.
So we want to come up with like unique looks and do something to really stand out.
Okay, but now hang on, hang on.
Consequences seems to be something a little bit over the horizon sometimes, right, for you guys?
Yeah.
Right, which is why you're kind of avoiding looking at the student loan debt number and all that.
I mean, and listen, $20,000 in debt, the last place you ever want to do that is on a credit card, right?
Right.
You'd want to get a bank loan.
You'd want to get some sort of secured line of credit.
Like the last place you want to get 20 grand.
I mean, other than maybe a loan shark is a credit card, right?
Because paying that off is brutal.
And you can end up paying off triple or quadruple that amount.
I mean, you know this.
What was your student debt when you left school?
It was about $32,000.
So in 10 years, it's gone up a quarter.
Correct.
Okay, alright.
So, consequences.
What are the downsides of publishing, I guess, marriage porn on the internet?
I mean, just, you know, like Family Fine Now disowning you, you know, that was originally, like, our main fear, but then it's not really a fear anymore.
Just because, you know, we've been kind of doing it for, you know, a few years to the point that, you know, it's something that we're good at.
We can actually make a living off of it, and... How much do you make from it, if you don't mind me asking?
We can make anywhere around... Like two or four?
No, that's just for one.
Sorry, sorry, what?
Probably around about, on average, between $4,000 and $5,000.
A month.
- $4,000, $5,000. - A month. - $4,000 to $5,000 a month. - That's just an average. - Okay, and this is off the publishing and then you get your ads or memberships, right?
Well, yeah, we have our own clip stores, meaning people will actually go and buy our videos.
From the clip stores?
Yeah.
We have some that are just based on views, but it's mainly clip stores, so people actually go and they buy them.
Right.
And that's your net, so you pay some to the clip store, And then you get some, right?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Correct.
Right.
And this is, is it both of you or just Lorena?
It's mainly both of us.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
And if you have kids, they'll probably find it at some point, right?
Well, the thing is, um, the way real life is like, she looks nothing like she does like on camera.
Right.
She's a complete opposite.
So most people will work with, they don't even recognize her on the street, you know?
So there is that going for us.
Uh, and because we're not like largely mainstream, we're not, you know, uh, we're, we're more amateur and we kind of like staying that way.
We're not like, uh, on the big sites or anything like that.
We're just very, you know, small.
And because there's so many people out there, it's, you know, it's kind of hard for anyone to kind of stumble across it unless they're actively really trying to look for something.
Right.
Okay.
Okay.
And with the extra money that you are making, what do you do with it?
That goes straight towards debts.
So you should be paid off pretty quick, right?
Yeah, that should go on a couple of years.
A couple of years.
Well, if you're $60,000 in debt and you're making, let's say five grand a month.
It's well, we're hoping for it to obviously grow.
Like we'll have no, no, but that's, that's the, I mean, if you take that money and put it on debt a year and change, right?
Not counting interest and all of that, but a year of change you're done, but you're saying years, which means that you're not using all the money for debt.
Well, yeah, some months, obviously you got like car payments and stuff like that.
Things are pop up.
So.
We obviously try and focus everything for the debt, but things do pop up that we have to use that money for.
Of course, things that are out of control.
And having strangers look at your sex life, how does that strike you?
Well, it's not really our life.
We created something that's not us.
No, no, it's you.
I mean, I get it's disguised and all of that, but it's you.
I mean, otherwise, they're paying the wrong people, right?
Yeah, well we just, we wanted to create like a fantasy, so, and our minds kind of turn off to the point that it's just work.
It's a business mindset that we're doing.
Yeah, it's, you know, she's learning like business 101 in a weird way.
Yeah, there's so much that you learn, like you know.
Not to the point where she'll find out the interest on her student loans, but yeah, some business 101.
Now, Scott, what was your first exposure to pornography as a child?
I think I destroyed the home computer when I just started typing things, and I didn't know, and it had so many pop-ups.
All I remember was the computer had so many viruses on there that when we actually went to America, my dad actually sold it to an old lady.
It sounds really bad right now, but they tried to clean it up, and then they sold the computer to an old lady.
Um, which if she went, if she actually clicked like the internet button, there'd be so many pop-ups that she probably couldn't get it fixed.
Um, that's sad to say, but pornography pop-ups.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause obviously I was probably like 13 years.
Well, probably 12 years old at a time.
So I didn't really know about any of that, but obviously back then you just click on anything and then you get so many viruses.
And Lorena, what about you?
I was about, 11, 12 years old.
And the first porno that I found was actually in my mom's drawer or in her closet somewhere.
And I knew she kept certain things.
So of course, you know, at that time, I was curious.
Any child would be.
And I found this very old VCR pornography.
I put it on and I'm like, oh, this looks interesting.
And for some reason, I actually invited over my boy cousins to see this video.
And we were just kind of like laughing about it.
Wait, you invited over your boy cousins to see the pornography video?
Correct.
Yeah.
Because I figured we all get a laugh of it.
Well, no, it's not designed for laughter, right?
I mean, everybody says this, right?
But it's not designed for laughter.
It's designed for sexual stimulation, right?
Well, at the time, obviously, we had no idea what we were watching.
And we wouldn't know what it was.
But it was just, it was entertaining.
And, I mean, I've had a guy on the show who's talked about how a lot of exposure to pornography can interfere with natural or normal sexual function.
Have you guys found that to be the case at all?
No, not at all.
If anything, I've found this to be a lot more closer.
Yeah, I mean, I listened to that podcast and I really enjoyed it because it is very true.
Like, the way things have happened with me, I used to obviously just love porn and I'd watch it like every day.
It was like an addiction for me.
But since we kind of decided to get into this business, I actually don't watch porn really for pleasure.
If I ever go on these sites, I'm actually looking for things that, for like ideas.
So I look for ideas and then I look at the girl and I'm like, oh, you know, we should reach out to that girl.
And we do.
And so it's not really the same.
Reach out to that girl for what?
We talk to the girls and they come over and work with us.
Oh, so it's the sexual activity that you film is more than the two of you?
Sometimes, yeah.
Yeah, we're open to working with other porn stars.
Other talents in the industry.
Yeah, we film every week and the way we do it is because our content is actually very good, a lot of girls, they reach out to us and they want to come work with us.
So they come over, they shoot with us, and we give them a copy of everything that we shoot.
They can sell that copy, they use our name to get them more exposure, and it also helps us as well.
It's kind of like in YouTube when you have, like, Mike Cernovich on, you know, his following comes to you.
So we do the same thing.
Yeah, no, it's not totally like YouTube, but I guess there are two involved, and you.
And they come to your house?
Yeah, well, we have a studio.
Oh, so they don't come to your house?
Our studio is in a house.
Okay, they come to your house.
Right.
So you can be easily doxxed that way, right?
I would say yes, but we have contracts that we have everyone sign.
As in, uh, we have release forms and we have like a professional contract where, you know, it says like if they work with us and then come out and say, oh, this is where these people live, you know, we can sue them.
I mean, it doesn't help after the fact, but it's still kind of like a deterrent.
In other words, we're, we're, we're safe about it.
And, um, STDs?
Oh, we're very safe about that.
Yeah.
In this, in this industry, um, there's industry standard testing where, It's generally like one main testing place that everyone in the industry goes to, and then it links up.
So if something was to occur, they can kind of find patient zero and find out where it came from.
And everyone's aware, you know, uh, in this industry, you get tested everywhere from two weeks to a month, depending on how many shoots they do.
Yeah.
Sometimes even every week, if you're shooting all the time just to be safe, but it's generally from two weeks to every 30 days.
Well, and I guess if you do have an STD and you're found to be patient zero, everyone's going to sue you, right?
No, no.
It's because you go in there and you find something immediately, everyone can get notified and then they can get basically cured.
Yeah, yeah.
It's never nothing major because everyone we work with is always tested.
So the only time anything was to happen is if they worked with someone that wasn't Right.
So, in other words, we never shoot with anyone who is not cleared.
Yeah.
Does this have any effect on your sex life off camera?
Actually, no.
It improves it.
It improves it.
As a guy, you would assume that, you know, I can have sex with other females.
But actually, that's not really my thing.
I don't really enjoy it.
I'm more focused on the camera itself, how everything looks, and just performing.
And once you get to know these girls, they're just really friendly.
So I just treat them as friends, you know?
So it's nothing like there's no passion involved or nothing like that.
It's all fake.
It's just all for the camera.
And then after we get done shooting, you know, me and my wife just go and have sex because we feel so closer to one another.
And it just makes our life much better.
Much closer.
Wait, so you feel closer to each other after you watch each other have sex with other people?
No, after we work with other people, we... But the work is having sex, right?
Yes.
Not all the time, but yes.
We don't normally have, like, sex.
Like, it's not... As we call it, boy-girl.
We normally do, like... Like oral stuff.
Yeah, oral stuff.
But that's sex.
Right.
I didn't say intercourse, right?
Right, no.
But, yeah, it's... We just feel closer.
And it's not like it's a fetish or anything.
We don't really get into it.
It's not something that before...
Going into this, I wanted to see my wife be with all our guys or anything.
It wasn't like that.
But you do.
You watch your wife have sex with other guys.
Yes, but it's not like a turn-on for me.
It doesn't really do anything.
We're just working.
I didn't describe motive to it.
I'm just saying that you do sit there and watch men have sex with your wife.
That is correct.
The way we look at it though is, you know, she has this disguise on, you know, and it's just her... No, but you know who she is, right?
You're not disguised to become a different human being.
You know who she is.
But I prefer the real person, you know, so when we're done working, I get to be with the real person.
I don't want the persona.
I want the real person.
Right, because it's just work mindset and I'm looking... But it's her vagina or her butt or her mouth or whatever, right?
Yeah, no, that's correct.
I mean, I assume you don't disguise those as like the Octatriumph or anything like that, right?
I mean, that's the thing, right?
Yeah, it's not something that we dove into.
It was...
It was something after about two years when we started working with other people because we felt comfortable.
Because we were happy with what we were doing, but we knew that we'd get more exposure by working with other people, so it was a step that we both decided to make together.
Yeah, cross-fertilization, so to speak.
Yeah, you know, and it was just something that if we wanted to get to where we wanted to get to, because the money that we're making now, we've only started making this kind of money within the beginning of this year.
Really halfway through this year, then we started making the money.
Is there any drug use in the industry that you know of?
Yeah, obviously it's not at our house or anything like that, but the people we've worked with, they don't do any drugs.
They smoke weed and stuff like that, but they don't really do any hardcore drugs.
We have heard stories of That people do do drugs and they drink.
And there are times where they would show up on set and they're not professional or they're probably coming home from a late party.
We've personally never really had that experience.
With the weed though, right?
Yes.
People will come and kind of smell the weed.
I mean, we don't smoke weed or anything, we don't like that in our house.
Yeah, we don't do drugs or we don't smoke or drink or anything like that.
We don't even drink, you know, but we tell people ahead of time that when they work with us, it's strictly professional, you know.
And we're nice, we'll cook them food and stuff like that, you know.
And we try to be really nice to all the people.
And we've been lucky that everyone that we work with are actually phenomenal.
We work with all our couples in the industry.
They're really great, too.
Yeah, you know, we haven't really had an overall terrible experience.
We only had one experience where we were kind of caught in the middle, where there was a problem with one of our male talents and a female talent.
Oh, you mean like a spat or a disagreement?
Yeah, you could say that.
So here's the story.
Let's put it this way.
It was our first experience with the Me Too movement and that does kind of go on in this industry and we kind of saw that firsthand and what that was is we were working with a new girl and she was interested in really getting her name out there and when we started talking to her we just said well you know a lot of these girls they go for the big companies and sometimes they'll get involved in agencies and Some agencies out there are really good.
They'll treat their girls really good and take care of them.
There's other agencies out there that they could pretty much pimp them out and they just treat them like they're just workers, you know, and it's horrible.
And what happens is girls just want fast money.
So they'll go and work for these really big companies and they'll get the fast money.
They'll get a lot of shoots.
And after a couple of years in the industry, they won't get as many shoots anymore.
They won't make the same amount of money.
And then they kind of get, you know, kicked away by the management company because they're not making any money.
And then they're left on their own.
Why would they make less money?
- Because you're thinking about fast money now.
And they don't think about creating their company stores. - These big companies, after they work with one girl, they don't wanna work with her again for a while.
Because they don't want too many videos of the same girl.
They just, they always want new girls.
It's a very fast pace because so many people, if they're watching porn multiple times a day, they don't wanna keep on seeing the same girl all the time.
They want a different selection.
So these big companies, they just always, it's an in and out thing, you know?
But the sad thing is, after these girls, they get a taste of the big money, they generally always spend it, and then it comes to the point that they're not making any money.
And that's when they'll probably get into drugs or hooking or something like that, something bad.
and then they're desperate for money.
What we tell girls at the very beginning, like, hey, if you wanna get into the business, we don't judge, that's perfectly fine.
But we say, make your own content.
Put your own content on clip stores.
So people that really wanna see more of you, they'll come to your own store and buy it from you so you make money.
And if they get really big and they work for these big companies, when the big companies don't come calling anymore, they'll still have fans that will be buying stuff from them So they'll be making residual income every single month.
And that's something they can live on.
It could actually really help them.
That's what we try to encourage.
Yeah.
So with this girl in particular, we were helping her create her own content.
So she was going to be coming over.
We were going to be spending a day with her.
And we had our male talent, professional male talent, that were going to work with her.
And so we'd make a bunch of videos that I would actually personally edit and send to her so she could have her own site set up so that, you know, she could start making some extra money that way.
But she was young.
She was 18 and she was having problems with her family.
Her family found out she was doing porn.
She was living like in a motel and her family were trying to take her car away.
She was going through a lot.
A lot, a lot.
Which is a bad time to be making permanent life decisions like pornography, right?
Exactly.
So you weren't really helping her too much because you should have encouraged her, I think, to not do pornography, shouldn't you?
I mean, let's just say that where you guys are is a different place than an 18-year-old girl who's going through family crises, right?
Yeah, we, like, we did talk to her about things to see if, you know, this is something that she really wanted to do.
No, no, but as an older couple, do you think that it's a good idea for her, in her state of mind, to make the permanent life choice to do pornography and have it out on the internet?
I mean, because we've been doing this so long, we really, we don't want to judge.
I mean, I have the kind of mindset where I don't want to judge.
But is it a good idea?
I'm not talking moral.
Let's put the ethics aside.
Let's put the ethics aside, right?
Hang on, hang on.
So put the ethics aside.
She's 18 years old.
She's having a terrible family crisis, right?
Is that the right time to make a decision about publicly posting pornography of yourself?
Oh, I mean, yeah, I mean, definitely not.
At that time though, she had already been in the business and have done shoots for all our people.
But she's 18.
She can't have been in the business that long, at least not legally.
No, she had been 18 for like a year at that point, but she had, so she had like, when you're 18 in this business, you do get some shoots.
A lot of people want you at that age.
And we were just, Our mindset was, well, if that's what she wants to do, we'll help her at least get set up on her own clip stores.
Okay, but let me ask you this.
If she hadn't done pornography as yet, and you came across her, would you have advised her to wait until her life was more stable?
And she was older, because her brain hasn't finished maturing at the age of 18, right?
She's still impulsive and consequences are a challenge and all that.
Do you think, or have you had a situation where someone comes to you who's going through a crisis, who hasn't done pornography yet, and you're in the position to give them advice about it?
If she came to us and told us about a family crisis, we'd probably... Alright, hold on just one sec.
Sorry, you know how the tech works.
I just have to swap the card.
Sorry.
Just give me a sec. - Thank you.
- It's recording. - Just be a sec.
No problem.
No worries. No worries.
No.
Alright.
Yeah, so would you give the person the advice to hold off on doing porn until their life had settled down and they were in a better place to make a decision?
Well, the thing is we don't generally get into people's personal life.
When people come to us, if they want to work with us, we're open to it.
We don't really ask anything about them.
We don't know who they are.
So if they come to us and, you know, they shoot with us and they start telling us all that kind of stuff, we would probably say like, you know, this is the right thing that you want to do.
But, uh, at the same time, they, they're going to make up their own minds anyways.
Yeah.
I mean, if they're already doing it, so we don't want to try and be the people like you shouldn't do this.
And we were actually kind of right to do that because she is the kind of person where if we did actually say that to her, she would have turned us into like an enemy.
And, uh, We're realizing all this now because she was kind of a person where it was everyone else's fault but hers.
So she was always blaming her parents and blaming all her situations for where she's at.
But we kind of learned this more after the fact.
So did you work with her?
We did work with her a bunch of times.
But she's very disturbed, right?
Yes, well we did things like where she was just kind of in the background.
That way she could just be in the videos and we could share the videos with her.
Because at the time she wasn't tested so she didn't actually do anything in the videos with us.
She was just in the background as like an extra.
That way we could at least give her some content just trying to help her.
This is a disturbed and dangerous woman who is undergoing a particular life crisis and Well, we kept finding this out throughout the process.
Yes.
I get that.
I get that.
But certainly you could find that stuff out ahead of time.
We could.
And secondly, I'm just pointing out that this is a disturbed and broken 18 year old girl.
And you guys are helping her in porn and you're kind of making some money off her too, right?
Yeah, no, that's true.
That's why we wanted to help her make some money.
That's not my point.
My point is that... Would you work with her again?
No.
No, why not?
Because on the day that everything kind of went down, that's when we really kind of saw how kind of disturbed that she was and she was having a lot of issues.
And she was bringing that energy into the shoots and I assume into the other shoots that she had.
Yes.
To sum everything up, what happened on the day where she was late for the shoot by two hours.
And then when we called her, she was saying that she was afraid to leave our car alone because her parents might come steal the car.
And, you know, eventually we spoke to her and then she decided to come over.
Uh, what we didn't know at the same time, our male talent, he was texting back and forth with her as well and talking to her.
And so when she came over, she was kind of just a little off, you know, she had a lot going on.
And, uh, you know, so the male talent was, was talking to her and he was a guy that had worked with her a lot and was trying to help her in the business.
And, um, I overheard a few things, what they were talking about in the studio while I was setting things up and it wasn't anything bad.
He was just trying to just, you know, kind of motivate her.
Like, you know, look, you know, this is just something that this is all going to be for you today.
You know, these are all your videos.
You are, you are profiting from a disturbed and dysfunctional girl.
Yeah.
No, that is true.
But a lot of these girls in this business, they all have a past.
Okay, so you profit.
Because I assume that you mostly work, I mean, maybe couples the same age, but with the single girls, you'd work with younger girls, right?
They're all age ranges, to be honest.
Okay.
But with the younger girls, they would, I would say, almost exclusively have a very troubled history, right?
Possibly we don't we don't personally get into it a lot of the people work We don't really work with anyone new this was the only girls have troubled histories That's right, and this girl has a troubled history and certainly I mean I read.
Oh gosh.
What was her name?
Linda the deep throat girl There was a movie made in the 70s called deep throat and Never saw it.
I heard of it.
There was a woman named, I can't remember her last name, but she wrote an autobiography and I can't remember where I found it, but I read it.
And I mean, if I remember rightly, she was forced to have sex with a dog or like, it was just horrendous, horrendous stuff.
I've heard that.
Yeah.
I've heard her story before.
And that's, Terrible.
Look, I'm not putting everything in the same category, of course, right?
But there are disturbed people with terrible histories and this doesn't help them because it kind of locks them into that, right?
Because you guys are older, you're wiser, you're camouflaged, you've got contracts, you're not doing drugs, right?
So that's just, again, throw the ethics, that's a separate category.
But some of these younger people, I assume mostly girls, right?
They do have very bad histories.
They may have addictions.
They may be on the run from, uh, brutal boyfriends or, or parents or, or whatever.
And it's not a great place to be making life decisions like pornography from.
No, you're, you're completely right.
Uh, I mean, we, we're all, we just do our own thing anyway.
So if you don't, because now you join up with other people.
Yes, but we don't, Like, we don't force anyone to do anything.
No, no, no.
Come on.
Don't dodge me here.
I never said you forced anyone.
We're doing our own content.
If people want to come by and join, we don't say no.
But do you think you have a responsibility as older people to try and help people not make decisions that they may not be in the best state of mind to make?
In all honesty, in this business, We don't, we don't actually, you know, we won't bring that up.
We don't talk to anyone about that kind of stuff.
If they come up and tell us all this horrible stuff about themselves, you know, we will probably say like, are you sure you want to do this?
And we probably might not shoot with them, but we haven't come across that.
That was the only situation.
When you say you haven't come across that you can have just in this instance, right?
And the other thing if you avoid getting this kind of information like I'm just listen I mean, you know, I'm here to try and help you guys if if possible, right?
I mean to make sure you don't do things that in the long run you might really regret because having a bad conscience is I've known some people who have a bad conscience and It is just about the worst thing in the world.
It makes people crazy and it makes their lives wretched.
So, the ethics of what you're doing is put all of that aside, but with regards to if you do end up getting the feeling that you may be making money off disturbed girls who aren't making good decisions, I think that that may well accumulate to your conscience.
That's my only, I mean, as far as, there's a lot to say, but that's the major thing that I wanted to say.
Yeah.
I mean, you're right.
Uh, you know, we feel, you know, bad about that now, what everything kind of happened, uh, cause we weren't aware.
Uh, it's actually our fault that we didn't kind of look into that more.
Yeah.
Or at least pick up on it because she did have a lot of issues and she was always talking about, but she was.
Cause our thing is, Oh, we just, we just want to help this girl and try and help her, but you can't help someone that can't really help themselves.
Can you?
She came off as, Just kind of one of these people that made you feel kind of bad for her and want to help her, you know?
So we'd help her, we'd give her some money here and there just to kind of help her, you know, get by.
No, but you were filming pornography with her.
So the charitable side of things might be a little bit hard for some people to follow.
We actually didn't film with her until that day.
She was in videos.
She didn't do anything in the videos.
She was just an extra.
It was that day that was our first time actually filming with us.
Right.
Okay.
You know, so we were all prepared that day.
Sorry.
No, I get all of that.
So how long do you guys think that you're going to pursue this?
Another just couple of years, to be honest, uh, the way we want to kind of do it, we're trying to build something, uh, to the point where we can then slowly leave it and it will be residual income.
So that money will still keep on coming in.
And we want to use the money once we've paid off the debts, all that money, we want to kind of put it into rental real estate and try and match the, basically substitute the income.
Because we know when we're not in this business, over time, you're not going to make really any money anymore.
But then we want to start making money through residual income and rental real estate.
That way when we have kids, we can be stay home.
Have the freedom to be stay home parents.
Yes, give them like organic food and, you know, We actually want to do like peaceful parenting.
And that's great.
And I really, really appreciate that.
But just from the outside, you know, I guess my next thought is, is do you think that it does any harm to your bond to have all these sexual relations?
And again, I know they're professional and not, not emotional as far as that goes, but to others, I'm just wondering if, if you feel that there may be a possibility that it could weaken your bond with each other to have...
Based on our experiences, no.
If anything, it brought us a lot closer and we actually talk about it all the time.
Like, so how did the shoot go?
How did it make you feel?
It's all... Yeah, we talk about everything that we've experienced.
You know, listen to your shows.
I mean, put it this way, I listen to your show every single day.
And then when my wife does, she'll listen to it too.
And we'll sit down together and we'll discuss each show and how it affects us.
And that was the reason we wanted to reach out, because we heard about the Sugar Daddy show, and we just kind of, you know, wanted to give our side of the kind of industry when we understand how girls, they just want money and things and they don't seem the consequences of Sugar Daddies or getting into porn or anything like that.
I'm sorry to interrupt.
What would you say to the girls about some of the downsides or the risk or the long-term life consequences if, let's say, they're not as old as you guys and maybe aren't working as hard to conceal their identities and so on.
What would you say to a girl who's obviously pretty and attractive in a way that can make money about the downsides of this choice?
I mean, there's a lot.
If they don't understand how to handle their money, and they don't have a set plan of what they want to do, we have a plan of what we want and how to get out.
A lot of these girls, they don't have a plan on how to get out.
And either they're going to try and stay in the business for a long time, or something bad is going to happen.
That's why we at least tell them.
You know, when you work with us, we'll give you copies of everything.
So you can kind of sell it that way.
They have something to fall back on, but all these girls, they don't, they just try and chase the money.
Uh, they get the thrill of they'll make like big bucks.
You know, uh, there was one girl in the industry that was extremely smart.
Uh, she got huge, uh, Mia Khalifa.
Uh, she did a couple of videos, got massive.
Cause she's, she did like kind of Muslim stuff.
And she got massive and then she used that money to pay off all her stuff.
She continued school and you know, she's doing like tons of stuff outside the industry and she's making a great life for herself.
And I think, you know, all our girls, they want the same thing to happen, but obviously that's not the case.
You know, we just look at it as a business mindset.
All these otter girls don't.
But what about identity issue, right?
So, I mean, I assume not everyone has cosplay masks on and being North American Ripper otters.
Boy, there's a throwback to an earlier show.
But for the identity issue, in terms of identifiability, I don't know where the culture is these days, but when I was younger, You know, porn was like kind of excluded you from regular old society kind of stuff.
And I don't know where the culture is these days regarding that.
But if a girl does porn and she's identifiable, what are the consequences to her in the long run?
For her, it would probably be like her family finding out or they'll disown them or anything like that.
And from our experience and from the stories that we hear, there's actually That's actually happened.
Oh yeah, my mom and father disowned me because they found out that I do porn.
And then there's girls where the dad does the taxes, you know.
It's very interesting.
I feel like we're on the same planet, in a way.
But not, you know.
Nothing human is alien to me.
It's a real stretching.
It's stretching out for me, which is... Anyway, go on.
The father does the porn girl's taxes.
Yeah, I mean, there's things that... Because, you know, he wouldn't want his daughter to get into trouble or anything.
Well, I mean... That's a good way to look at it, actually.
To be honest, there's a thing happening right now where a lot of these girls are getting in trouble with IRS because they don't pay taxes, you know?
Well, isn't there a thought patrol as well?
Like, there are guys out there who object to this who are reporting girls to the taxes?
Yeah we've we've come across I mean nothing has happened to us because we've seen it we do everything legally we have our own business and everything's set up uh but yeah there there is uh we see we don't get into any dramas but there is girls like on on twitter saying this guy's trying to out us and go after you know females in the sex industry and all this kind of stuff and uh we see all this and I I personally I don't know how you know girls feel when they just they don't have a mask on they're just
They're like that 24-7.
Most of them, they probably like the fame, you know?
But there must be a subculture wherein, maybe it's not even that sub, a culture wherein these girls are rockstars, right?
Yeah, like for example, we're going to AVN over in Las Vegas, and that's like the big industry awards.
And anyone that's really in the industry that has a name, they generally go there.
And, you know, there's fans that come over and they want autographs.
You meet a lot of people in the industry and it's like you get treated like rock stars.
Yeah.
And it will be our first event ever too.
So it's sort of like when I go and give a speech and meet people, except not.
Okay.
Yeah.
You know, it's just, uh, it's, it's interesting.
It's a completely different life and it's not really a life that we've completely went into 110% because we, we do this part time.
You know, we do it like once a week when we shoot together, that kind of thing.
But this will be our first time going to these events because people have been telling us, they're always asking us, please go to these events.
Oh yeah, where are you going?
Have you gone to this?
Have you gone to that?
You know, so we're like, you know what, our friend's getting married there.
But wait, wait, now you won't be going to that event in dress-up, would you?
Yes.
Oh, you would be going in dress up.
So you would be unrecognizable in that situation.
Yes.
Okay.
Got it.
Well, I guess that would make sense.
Otherwise people would say, why are you here?
Oh, got it.
Yeah.
And, but yeah, our friends getting married there.
That was the main reason that we're getting married at the porn show.
He's actually a male talent in the industry and he's getting married to a female talent who runs her own business in the industry.
Wow, okay.
My invitation must have got lost in the mail.
I'll check one more time.
Wow.
Okay, well that's a big interesting scan of a world I know little about.
Is there anything else that you wanted to mention before we wrap it up?
I mean, the point for really making the call was, you know, the industry is not all that bad there is you know terrible things that happened there was a girl that you know she committed suicide last year because she didn't want to work with guys who did both gay porn and straight porn because there's higher risk for like age she highly got attacked for that yeah and then it was
it was kind of like you know everyone attacked her for it and she ended up uh killing herself and it was i think i read about that yeah it was really really scary because Because she was considered to be homophobic because she didn't want to increase her possibility of HIV transmission, is that right?
Yep, that's correct.
And then these people just went savage after her on social media and, oh, I had to read about that.
Ah, it was wretched.
I don't know if you did a podcast about it.
You might have mentioned it.
I might have mentioned it, but I do remember that story now for sure.
But yeah, I mean, things like that, that happens.
And, you know, there is things like where people try and fake their test.
And for people that don't look into the actual tests, like, you know, Martina Crusher, she can look into, you know, other people's tests and actually find out when they got tested, all this kind of stuff.
Whereas, you know, other people will just print them out and be like, oh, this is mine, and they can fake it and all this kind of stuff.
You know, you can do anything on the computer nowadays.
It's a little more significant than Lance Armstrong, yeah.
Yeah, but there is, whenever something like that happens, everyone bangs together and you come out and you blacklist someone.
If someone does something bad, if someone, you know, forces himself on a girl or rapes a girl, they blacklist them and everyone attacks them.
Unfortunately, the Me Too movement in the industry has a thing too, whereas someone can get falsely accused of something.
And like the incident we were talking about with the young 18 year old girl, um, our male talent was talking to her and I overheard him, you know, just kind of, he was trying to motivate her, but from a girl that's probably, Got a lot of emotion going on.
She probably felt that as forceful and we can't really talk really about him cause we don't actually know about any other things that has happened.
We can only talk about, you know, what we saw and what we heard.
But after, after that shoot, you know, uh, a few girls that were, had really big names in the industry came out and attacked him.
One of the girls... Wait, so was he verbally abusing?
Was he putting his hands where she didn't want them to go?
I mean, what was the Me Too aspect of that?
No, it was, from what I heard, he was just saying like, you know, uh, we're here today.
We're going to be shooting with you.
You know, you should, you know, be excited.
This is all about you.
You know, finally, you're not going to be in the background.
You'll be the main person.
And then we'll try and get a lot of content, all that content's for you.
You know, you can do this.
I know you have a lot of problems, but you know, sometimes if you want to do this business, you can't bring your problems into the workplace or you won't get it.
How is that a Me Too thing though?
Well, that's the thing.
When you tell a girl that has a lot of problems, she can kind of figure it out.
Oh, okay.
So maybe a false accusation scenario, or it could be something like that.
Exactly.
But the issue was, there was another girl who was really big in the business that he had been trying to help.
As in, he was trying to help her get more work with other producers, and things didn't go right with them.
She blamed him for a lot of stuff and tried to blacklist him.
And then other girls that didn't like him, well, they all came at woodwork.
And then some guys that just had a beef with them decided to come out and everyone attacked them.
And because we had worked with them, as I mean, he was our male talent for quite a while, you know, they, they wanted to try and get us to be involved in that, but we didn't cause we've never experienced anything bad about the guy, you know?
So we just stayed out of it.
But we did watch and see, you know, everyone that he considered friends, stab him in the back.
Girls that were saying, like, he was amazing to work with, and then the next day saying, like, horrible stuff about him.
And he was just trying to defend himself the whole time.
So these accusations can float around as well.
So let me just, I'm going to give my sort of final thoughts.
I really, really appreciate it.
It's a world that is...
Unknown to me, but I'm curious.
I'm relentlessly curious about the human experience as a whole.
So I just want to be clear.
So for me, there's no violation of the non-aggression principle in what you guys are doing.
It's all voluntary.
It's all contractual.
Nobody's using any force.
Nobody's blackmailing.
So I may disagree with the content of what's going on, but that's part of a free society.
Which is, I believe the prostitution should be legal, and sex workers should be legal, and so as far as the ethics go, there's no violation of the non-aggression principle here.
That having been said, I think that there can be consequences emotionally, I think there can be consequences in terms of your ability to bond, but I have a resolute standard here, and you heard me say this a number of times in this show, and I've said it a number of times before, which is This is my thoughts, tell me if I'm wrong.
This is my thought, this is my opinion, this is my approach, this is my perspective, my argument, but I never ever want people to substitute my thoughts for their own lived experience because you guys know what you're living and I'm simply bungeeing in from the outside to talk about it.
So, I believe that there can be some negative consequences for bonding.
I would be very, very careful about exploiting troubled girls for money.
I think that can accumulate in the conscience and I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just saying that would be something that I would look out for.
But yeah, no violation of the non-aggression principle.
I think that there can be bonding issues, and I would definitely be careful about exploitation.
But other than that, I really do appreciate you guys lifting the veil, I suppose to speak.
Lifting the lid on a world that people... I mean, I know people consume corn all over the place, but they don't really know much about what goes on behind the scenes or on the other side, so...
That is something that I think is quite illuminating for people, and I'm so sorry.
Lorena, you were just about to say something when I would continue talking.
I was going to say, you know, just thank you for having us, for sure, and thank you for listening to us, and it's one of those things that, you know, in the end, porn can be so much fun in the process as well.
You know, you learn something new every day, and you learn a new way to Just to sell and market, you meet new people.
It can be super entertaining or like what we like to call it, porn entertainment.
Well, again, thanks.
I appreciate the call and I guess have fun in Vegas.
Thank you.
And if anything ever pops up in the industry and you want our take on it, feel free to reach out.
