Feb. 17, 2019 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
02:00:52
4302 'HELP! MY WIFE IS ABOUT TO DIVORCE ME!' Freedomain Call In
A desperate caller whose wife is about to divorce him begs for help from Stefan Molyneux, Host of Freedomain.Can the marriage be saved? What about his son? Can the relationship be saved? Should he even try?If you are struggling in your romantic relationship, this call is for you!▶️ Donate Now: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate▶️ Sign Up For Our Newsletter: http://www.fdrurl.com/newsletterYour support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate▶️ 1. Donate: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate▶️ 2. Newsletter Sign-Up: http://www.fdrurl.com/newsletter▶️ 3. On YouTube: Subscribe, Click Notification Bell▶️ 4. Subscribe to the Freedomain Podcast: http://www.fdrpodcasts.com▶️ 5. Follow Freedomain on Alternative Platforms🔴 Bitchute: http://bitchute.com/stefanmolyneux🔴 Minds: http://minds.com/stefanmolyneux🔴 Steemit: http://steemit.com/@stefan.molyneux🔴 Gab: http://gab.ai/stefanmolyneux🔴 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stefanmolyneux🔴 Facebook: http://facebook.com/stefan.molyneux🔴 Instagram: http://instagram.com/stefanmolyneux
I'm here with Nikos, and I don't often get very edge-of-the-cliff, very urgent communications from listeners, but in this case, I certainly did.
So Nikos, what's the emergency?
What's going on?
Thank you very much.
My wife wants to divorce me.
How long has she wanted that?
Oh, very, very long ago.
Very long ago.
Six years ago, When we have our child, I was not a good husband.
I was not a good father.
I wasn't there.
I was absent.
I couldn't stand up for her.
I couldn't help her.
I was lost.
I was very terrified.
Low self-esteem.
No real friends.
No real man.
So, she was right.
to want to divorce me in the first place.
Now, wait, so you meant six years ago she first wanted to divorce you?
When she got pregnant and our kid was born, yes, she was starting to say, I want to divorce you, you're not good, you're not there for me.
Okay, so let's go back.
How long ago did you first meet your wife?
Nine years ago.
And how long did you date before you got married?
Okay, let's go to the real, what really matters.
We were about two years dating, but we never talked about important issues together.
Never.
Really talked about real issues, what we want, what we value in life, what we value in a family, how do we want to live together.
No, no such things.
So what did you talk about?
I'm always curious if people aren't talking about important things, what are they talking about?
Like what did you talk about with her over the two-year period?
I had very low self-esteem, so I found a woman who looked me in the eyes and asked me, do you love me?
Do you love me, Nikos?
And I was excited.
I was just excited.
I didn't want to talk about anything else.
First time in my life, a woman treated me like that.
I mean, I had other girlfriends, okay?
But it was the first time a woman treated me like that so nicely.
So I didn't really want to hear anything else.
Of course I was blind.
So when you say it's the first time, would you say it's the first time in your life that a woman has treated you nicely?
So nicely.
She was so nice.
She always wanted to have sex with me.
She always asked me every day, do you love me?
You're good, you're fine.
How's your day?
And I was excited.
She treats me like a god.
First time in your life a woman has treated you nicely.
You know where that takes me, right?
Minus the whole having sex with Clark.
You know where that takes me, right?
My mother.
Here you go.
Let's hear about your mom.
My parents were neglecting me.
I think That is the wrong word.
I couldn't say my opinion.
I was never treated like an adult.
Like a person.
She was screaming at me.
Many times she was yelling at me.
But most of the times she didn't give an F for me.
Yeah.
Yeah, you can swear.
It's fine.
It's fine.
We were in the same house all day, all afternoon, so in the morning I was in school, but we never talked.
We never, never, ever had a conversation.
Wait, wait.
Do you mean like a meaningful conversation or a conversation at all?
How was your day?
Who did you hang out with?
Who are your friends?
Is there something that concerns you?
Something that bothers you?
What do you want to do in life?
How do you plan your life?
Never.
Never.
Right.
Did you get hit as a child?
A little.
A little.
Very little.
Sometimes.
From my mother, usually.
Not so much my father.
But some slaps in the face.
But not very much.
Not very much.
What about your father?
Did he engage in conversations with you at all?
A bit more.
He was trying sometimes to have a conversation with me.
He was trying sometimes to say me some things, but he was always in work all day.
He was more open sometimes.
He was not so mean as my mother.
Because my mother, if I ask her something, if I say something, if I do something stupid, He was always, oh, you're nothing!
You can't do this?
Oh my God!
You're so, so pathetic!
My dad didn't use so much these words.
But he was not encouraging either.
I mean, he was trying to balance.
Maybe he had guilt.
See me like this?
He was not very much encouraging me.
Did he know that your mother verbally abused you in the most horrendous kinds of ways?
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
So what did he do?
What did he say?
Or did he tell her to stop?
To shut the hell up?
No.
Why?
Why not?
No.
Sometimes he was also yelling at me together.
But sometimes he just said, OK, OK, OK, don't scream, something like this.
I mean, the screaming is bad enough, but the fact that she would say, you're nothing, you're useless, like this kind of stuff, when you would not do something well, That is horrendous, because that stuff sinks down into your brain, into your spinal cord.
It becomes the building blocks of your identity, or of your non-identity, right?
The screaming stuff, it's bad.
I mean, I went through it too, but it's easy to kind of Throw that aside, because it's obviously crazy, right?
There's someone screaming at you or whatever.
They're unstable.
They're nuts.
So it's relatively easy.
It's not pleasant.
It's not good.
But it's relatively easy to throw that aside and say, well, my mom was just kind of nuts that way.
But the calm, patient repetition of soul-destroying language is very, very hard to fight.
Is that true for you?
Can I curse?
You can fucking curse, yeah.
Okay, so she was always telling me, you're useless, you're malakas.
And she was using this word for my dad too.
Translation?
She was saying, you're a fucking asshole.
Oh, gosh.
So it's not like you're a piece of shit or you're useless.
You're a piece of shit.
You're a piece of shit.
You're useless, you're terrible, you're negative.
Yes, you're useless.
You're totally useless.
And she was saying, I have two useless men in my house.
Do you have any siblings?
My dad.
And when my brother was born, she was saying, I have three useless men in my house.
I have three I'm gonna go out on a limb here, my friend, and I'm gonna say, I'm gonna guess, that your mother didn't take any responsibility whatsoever for having these men in her house.
Like, for choosing your father, for having children, for... She would say you're a malaka, but she wouldn't say what she did to help you become that way.
It would just be, oh, I'm a victim here, these men have just shown up in my life mysteriously, and I just have to defend myself by attacking their very being.
Yes, of course.
Of course.
Your parents still together?
Yes.
How's your dad doing?
Oh, if you ask her, they are much in love.
They're doing great.
Yeah, if you ask him.
Oh, no, not me, but if someone else asks, he will say this.
Yes.
How is he doing, given not from the outside, but from what you know?
They are both mentally crazy.
No.
No, no, no.
That's not the right word.
Okay.
No, that's not the right... Crazy people do random things.
Crazy people think that they're Jesus or Napoleon or some sort of prophet, right?
That's what crazy people do.
Crazy people don't systematically and methodically abuse and break down other people's personalities.
With crazy people, sometimes they're really nasty and sometimes they're just wonderfully nice.
Like, not in social situations, but even privately, because there's randomness to the behavior of crazy people.
But when people are immoral, That's not the word I was going to use.
When people are immoral, then their behavior is one way.
It's generally negative.
There may be the occasional giddy part, but it's not random.
It's always in one kind of direction.
Yes.
Did your mother ever have a delightful or wonderful or spontaneous or fun or praise you kind of side?
I'm sorry, I didn't understand.
Did your mom, was she ever a great fun or you felt happy or crazed to be around her?
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Okay, so then she's not crazy, she's just a beauty.
Yes, she was... Oh, I'm sorry.
She was using some drugs, some...
She...
I'm sorry, I can't find...
Hang on, hang on.
Do you mean drugs like prescription drugs or street drugs or what?
Prescription drugs because she was always in a bad mood.
Yeah, well I guess it's easier to just take drugs rather than stop being a bitch, right?
Yes.
I'm sure I can fix my nasty, vicious, verbally abusive tendencies by popping mind-altering drugs.
Female agency.
Yes, exactly.
The great untapped resource of the world.
Alright.
And how's your brother doing?
Fine.
Just fine.
He's an Australian?
No, no, no.
Don't give me all these details, man.
He's very ethical.
He has a great relationship with his wife.
He listens to you and he always gives me great advice.
he is a he has a great relationship with her wife with his wife i'm sorry and listens to you and he always gives me great advice so how did he as you see it Survive your mom, other than being on the other side of the world from her.
Survive my mom.
So, I was born very early, when they were both 20-25 years old.
They were much more harsh with me.
My brother lived a little in my father's pharmacy.
Seeing him every day and listening to him to have a win-win conversations with the clients because he couldn't do otherwise.
Oh, so your brother spent more time around your dad than your mom?
Yes.
Okay.
First one.
And do you understand what I mean?
When I was in the house, I couldn't have a win-win situation with my dad and I never saw him Having a win-win or lose-lose conversation with another guy.
I never saw him trying to persuade someone to do what he wants him to do.
To pay him.
To keep the client.
My brother had that chance and I think it was very revealing to his eyes.
What does your brother think of your mother?
He started having fights with her when he was only 12, 10.
That sounds familiar.
Yes, very harsh fights.
He really doesn't want to talk to them.
Oh, to your mom and your dad?
Yes.
Now, tell me how... Again, don't give me too many details.
Was it at a party or a bar where you met your wife?
Mutual friends.
Mutual friends, and they thought you'd be a good couple?
Yes.
What was your first encounter?
Was it with others or a date?
I'm sorry, I didn't... Your first time together with the woman who became your wife.
Did you go on a date, just you, or did you go out with others?
With another couple, the first few times.
And how was the attraction and all of that?
We were attracted to each other.
A bit of hesitation there, my friend.
I'm sorry?
There was a bit of hesitation there in your... No, no, no.
We were attracted to each other.
OK.
All right.
And how long before you became engaged?
I'm sorry?
How long did you date before you got engaged?
About two years.
Two years.
Does that seem long?
Does that seem long?
A long time.
Is that typical?
It's typical.
It's okay.
I think that's not a problem with us.
What do you mean?
I think it's not the problem that we didn't have time to know each other.
I think the problem is we didn't want to know each other.
Okay.
I won't ask that.
That's too personal.
But what did your wife think of your mother when she met her?
Oh, when she met her, that she was fantastic.
She thought your mom was fantastic?
Yes.
But I guess she didn't know how you'd been mistreated by your mom, right?
No.
And so you hadn't talked to her about your abuse as a child?
No, because if you asked me at that time what I thought of my parents, I would say to you, they are great!
Yeah, yeah.
They offered me everything.
Couldn't have had it better, right, right.
Yes.
So...
What did your mom think of your fiancé?
Oh, she was excited.
She told me never lose that girl.
See, there's a clue, right?
The clue is that your mom doesn't view her as any kind of threat.
Now, imagine you were a woman and you brought me home to your mom.
I mean, I'd be on to her like that, right?
And then your mom would be like, you gotta dump that Steph guy.
He's bad news, man.
Yes.
Right, OK.
I can't understand what you mean.
OK, so how long after you got married did you have your first child?
So, we were engaged.
Before we got married, we had a child.
Before?
Yes.
Interesting.
We had decided to live together, we had decided to work together in the same work, in the pharmacy, but we hadn't married yet.
Was it a planned baby?
It's somewhat complicated, so she said to him, We were in a doctor and she said to her that maybe you can't have children in a few years.
Maybe it's better to have children now.
So she told me, Nikos, do you like to have a child now?
Don't wait for any longer, because I... Okay, you understand.
Did she have like, what, endometriosis or something?
Yes, yes, yes, something like that.
Was it a female doctor who was telling you this?
A female doctor, female doctor.
So your female doctor says, you know, the door may be closing, you might want to do it now, right?
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And you weren't particularly ready for it, but, if I understand this rightly, you did want a child.
It was just a bit sooner than you wanted?
Yes, I had decided to live with that woman, so I said to me, Did you know about the endometriosis before you moved in?
I'm not really sure.
I was in the doctor with her one time.
I really don't know if it was intentional, so intentional, I mean, or not.
I can't really say.
Yeah, I mean, it's just a message for men out there that you should have some handle on the physical problems that your partner has before you settle down, before you move in, before you get married.
Because, you know, if she'd said to you early on, listen, I have endometriosis, this might mean I have to have kids very young.
That's just part of information you need to make a good decision, right?
I'm really not sure if this was so intentional.
You mean that she withheld it from you?
That she told me that, or she made that up, or anything else to have me have child, but... Well, no, she didn't make it up, right?
Because the doctor was saying she has endometriosis, right?
Yes.
Okay, so that wasn't made up.
And the doctor was the one who said you should have kids sooner rather than later, right?
But the question is, I wonder if she knew about all of that before you moved in and whether she told you or not.
Because it's kind of important information because it's a big life decision when to have children, right?
And if that decision is rushed because of medical issues, you should know that before you move in so you can make a decision if that's the right person for you.
OK, Stefan, to tell you the truth, I don't know, maybe if it wasn't that, if she just said to me, let's have a child, let's have sex and have a child, I may have said, yes, OK, let's do it.
Wait, wait, not related to the doctor?
Yes.
OK.
All right, so I'm not sure what we're doing then.
If it's not related to the doctor, then why are we bringing up the doctor of endometriosis to have kids?
Because it was part of that, but I tell you the truth.
Maybe it was... If she said to me... Maybe, maybe.
I'm not sure.
No, I get it.
Listen, I mean, I understand.
Listen, I understand.
Because the way you were raised, saying no to a woman is terrifying.
Yes.
Right?
I mean, how much luck did you have saying no to your mom?
Oh, no luck.
No luck at all.
In fact, saying no to your mom would probably invite further abuse, right?
Yes.
I just want to mention something before we move on, for you, of course, Nikos, and for the general audience, and that is this.
You don't owe conversation to everyone in the world any more than you owe food and shelter to everyone in the world, UN Global Migration Compact notwithstanding.
But there are people that you do owe conversation to.
I don't owe food to some guy who's hungry in Calcutta.
However, if I lock someone in my basement, I damn well have to feed them, or I'm guilty of murder, right?
They starve to death, because I've deprived them of all other sources of food by putting them in my basement.
You don't owe conversation to everyone in the world, but by God, if you're a parent, you bloody well owe conversation to your children.
You owe conversation to your children like you owe food and shelter and health care and education.
You owe that to your children because your children are in your house, especially when they're young.
It's not like they can go up and set up their own tea parties in the town square.
You owe conversation to your children.
To deprive your children of conversation is horribly abusive.
It's horribly.
Abusive.
They can theoretically go root around in the garbage to get food, but getting conversation outside your house is virtually impossible for kids.
And children, our personalities, our identities, our beings are forged in language.
Language is the essence of who we are, which is why I talked earlier about the verbal abuse sinking down into your soul and becoming inextricably linked with who you are.
It's like food Coloring into water or migration, it's easy to add, it's very, very hard to take away.
So, if your mother deprived you of conversation, you said she never talked to you, and yet would inject these horribly negative words into your mind and your heart and your being and your soul, that's horrible.
And it is incredibly nasty and abusive and destructive to have a child, to keep that child in your house, and not to talk to the child.
It's starving the... Like, we're social animals!
There are animals out there that will choose company over food, even if they're starving.
It is absolutely necessary for us.
We are dogs, not cats.
Cats can live with a giant F.U.
fart at the world because they're solitary creatures who only get together to make cats and Janis Joplin songs.
We're dogs, though.
We're social animals.
We need each other.
And children need conversation.
They need contact in a way that is foundational.
And to deprive that, to have a child, lock the child basically up in your house, which is what happens when they're very young.
They can't go elsewhere without you.
To lock the child up in your house, to deprive that child of conversation, is one of the most abusive acts a parent can do.
And I just wanted to express my sympathy To you for that.
Because what happens is then you grow up with a desperate desire for contact.
And then some woman comes along, has a lot of sex with you, tells you she loves you, and you're like, all right, take me, I'm yours.
Because you've been hungry for so long, you can't discriminate the first meal you get, right?
Yes.
So, it sounds like she love-bombed you a little bit, you know, with the sex.
Now, the do you love me is interesting.
Did she need that reassurance a lot?
Yes.
Right.
She needed that too.
So, what was her childhood like?
She has a very dominant mother and a super manipulative mother.
I mean, she's pro in this.
Wait, she or... you mean your wife or your dad?
No.
Her dad.
Her mother.
Her mother.
Her mother is a pro in domination or manipulation?
Both of them.
Both.
And the father's more manipulative, is that right?
No, the father is absent.
He doesn't talk.
He's hiding from his wife, too.
Yeah.
Yeah, funny how Greece gets both a matriarchy, massive debt, and no borders all at the same time.
It's not a coincidence.
Ah, women are running things into the ground!
Now, what did you think of your mom when you met her mom, before you got married?
Okay, okay.
I saw some signs.
I saw sometimes how she treats her.
And how she treats her husband, too.
But... I said, what the fuck?
Okay, let's move on.
Well, you needed the love bomb, so you were overlooking The warning signs, because you needed... It would have been horribly painful for you to let go of this girl, and then after you've had some needs satisfied, to then have those needs no longer satisfied would have probably thrown you into quite a spiral of depression, right?
Yes.
It was very hard to confront her.
Well, she had all the power, right?
And this is how the next generation inherits the matriarchal bully of the last generation.
is that the bullies who are terrible at making human contact, it's one of the reasons why they're bullies, is that they dominate rather than relate.
So, your mother, through her neglect and through her verbal abuse, creates a huge hole of neediness that can only be filled by another woman.
And that way, the other woman can just bring A smile and a vagina to the equation, and you're like, here, take everything I have!
That seems like a fair trade, because you've been raised with such need that the next generation of women can pillage that need if they want.
And they do, honestly.
Stefan, I'm really sorry to interrupt you.
This is a great conversation, but I'm very, very, very nervous.
I don't want to take away responsibility from me.
I want to see my mistakes, I want to see if I can fix something, change something right now.
I can say for my wife that she's screaming at me, she's mean to me.
No, we'll get there, listen.
Okay, thank you.
And listen, let me tell you why I do this kind of stuff, just so people want to see what the mechanism of thought is.
Let's say, Nikos, you call me with friends and you call me and you say, I went to a very bad section of town and I got stabbed in the leg, right?
What would I say to you?
Why did you get there?
No.
You got stabbed in the leg and you're bleeding.
I would tell you, get to a hospital.
Yes.
Right?
You've got to deal with the bleeding wound first.
Now, then, after your bleeding wound has been patched up and you've started your rehab, then we can start talking about what were you doing in the bad neighborhood to begin with.
But first, you deal with the stab wound, right?
Yes.
Right now, who's responsible for stabbing you?
The person who stabbed you, right?
Yes.
Now, that's what we focus on to begin with.
And the reason we focus on that is we say, Whoever stabbed you is 100% responsible for stabbing you, right?
Of course.
Now, if you accept that they have 100% responsibility for stabbing you, then you can say, well, I'm responsible for going into the bad neighborhood.
Sure.
But the only reason that going into the bad neighborhood was a bad idea is there are a lot of people out there in that neighborhood who are going to stab you or want to, right?
So first we give a hundred percent responsibility to the person who stabbed you, and then we can start talking about avoiding that situation.
So I'm not trying to say you have no responsibility at all, but what I'm saying is that you take on too much responsibility, which is probably one of the reasons why your wife wants to divorce you.
You take on too much responsibility.
What that means is you can't have your needs known, you can't have your needs met.
And women, particularly after they have children, need someone who's a little bit dominant.
Right?
Okay.
Do you know why?
To feel safe.
To feel safe.
To feel like they've got a man who can go out there, compete with other men, get resources and bring them home.
Hunt and kill.
Hunt and kill!
You know, we can take the human out of the jungle, but we can't take the jungle out of the human, right?
This is a base, primal, female need, which is to feel secure.
And the worst gift that feminism gave to women was female dominance, because it means now that they're miserable.
And they are.
Of course they are, right?
So, if you take too much responsibility on And it's interesting to me that when I started talking about your mom's real responsibility, you jumped in and said, yes, but me, what about my responsibility?
No, that's your mom, just your inner mom, not wanting to take responsibility and thus wanting you, Nikos, to take responsibility.
No, we'll get there.
But first of all, we need to figure out what's not your responsibility.
It was not your responsibility That your mom was the way she was.
It was not your responsibility she didn't talk to you.
It was not your responsibility that she hit you occasionally.
It was not your responsibility that she verbally abused you.
And that she was a horrible, horrible human being in saying, I have all these terrible malaka men in my house.
It's one thing to verbally abuse an adult who has choice, who can tell you to F off, who can block you, who can, right?
But when a child is dependent upon you, not just for food and shelter, but for the very definition of that child's identity, and you pour hateful language into that child's ear, it is a form of spiritual poison.
It is a form of spiritual poison because the child is bonded.
The child has no choice and the child has to nod and with a sickly smile swallow every poison syllable.
Yes.
And then give his fucking mom a hug.
Yes.
Right?
So it is horribly abusive.
It is a form of soul destruction that the worst dictatorship in the world can scarcely achieve.
It's something I read many, many years ago.
A friend of mine gave me a book on child abuse.
It was one of the books that really, really got me started on this journey.
Let me tell you what it said, Nikos, because I really want you to understand this.
It said, child abuse is in many ways worse than going to war.
Being abused as a child.
Why?
Because going to war as an adult, as an adult male, You already have an existing personality.
It's not being formed.
It is formed already.
So you're going to war and dealing with the stress of war, but you already have an existing personality.
You have an existing structure around you that validates what's going on.
You don't have to hide that you're going to war because everybody knows, whereas child abuse you have to hide.
You also Get praised for the sacrifice that you made in going to war.
So people will say, thank you for your service.
You might get a pension.
You might get medals.
You might get lots of commendations.
You might, you generally will like, wow, you went to war.
Good for you.
Thank you for your service.
Here's a medal.
Here's a pension.
Here's whatever.
Respect.
Yes.
But that's not what happens when you're abused as a child.
You blame yourself.
You hide it and you pretend otherwise.
Like, the guy who's going to war doesn't pretend he's going on fucking vacation.
But the child who's abused has to often pretend that the family is fine, right?
Otherwise, he gets abused more.
So it's a form of mental torture and mental degradation that doesn't even occur in war.
Now, some people say, well, you see.
But war is violent.
And it's like, yes, but you only submit to abusive parents because they're violent.
And the violence can be over in terms of punch or verbal abuse.
Or the violence can be covert in terms of neglect and ignoring you.
Withdrawal and avoidance, which is a death threat.
Like, if I've got a guy locked in my basement and I say to him, I'm never, I'm not going to talk to you for the rest of the week.
Well, he's thinking, oh great, now I get to starve to death or die of thirst.
Right?
If you hang up on me on the phone and say, forget it, Steph, I'm never talking to you again.
It's like, oh no, I'm sorry the conversation didn't work out, but my life goes on and your life goes on.
But if your parent threatens withdrawal of affection, withdrawal of contact, withdrawal of any positive experience, children experience that as a death threat.
Because children are so dependent upon the goodwill of their parents that the withdrawal of that goodwill is the withdrawal of resources necessary for survival or the threat thereof.
So, child abuse is, in many ways, worse than going to war.
Also, if you are abused and your sibling is abused, very often you will turn on each other.
It's a sealed, silent pact of silence going forward.
Whereas if you have war companions, you're part of a platoon or a squad or whatever.
If you have war companions, you have People who are with you in the trenches, you can talk about things with, you've shared the same experience.
And a lot of people, a lot of men, will look back upon wartime service, if they survived of course, they look back on wartime service and they say, those were the greatest days of my life.
You tell me someone who was abused or raped or neglected or beaten as a child who looks back and says, boy, those days of being beaten and raped and neglected and abused, those were the greatest days of my life.
Nobody said that.
There's no parade.
There's no medals.
There's no statues.
For the billions of victims of rampant child abuse around the world, it's shut up and pay up.
In money, in time, in allegiance, in service, in sympathy, we are The silent wounded in the world.
We are the invisible wounded in the world.
And also, the abuse that we suffered as a child is usually only replicated by the abuse we suffer as adults, should we dare to open our fucking mouths and talk about what we went through.
Then, and only then, does the world get pissed off.
Hey man, it's one thing to be abused.
This, not great.
But it's really terrible, you see, as an adult, to talk about it.
Now we're going to abuse you further, because you're breaking the great seal of silence that child abuse victims are supposed to fucking live with for the rest of their lives.
But no.
I was a victim.
You were a victim.
Fuck the abusers.
I'm talking about it.
I don't give a shit who gets bothered by it.
If you get bothered by it, and you're on the side of the abusers, to hell with you.
Alright.
Just wanted to mention that.
Now.
Yes?
When did things start to go wrong?
You said with the birth of your child?
Yes.
And how quickly after the birth of your child did things go wrong?
Very quickly.
Every day we were fighting.
Every day.
Almost every day we were fighting.
Now, you weren't before the baby was born?
Okay, we were fighting before the baby was born.
But in a second, we were back again.
Like nothing happened.
Okay?
But after the baby was born, no.
We were very much separated.
We didn't get back after a fight.
We were fighting and fighting and fighting.
What were you fighting about?
At least the surface level, right?
Okay.
I was nagging her all the time, why you're so absorbed with the child?
Why don't you talk to me?
Why don't you have time with me?
Why don't you want to have sex with me?
Okay, so you understand this, right?
Do you know what the pattern is there?
Yes, she doesn't give me any... She doesn't... Hang on, hang on.
Your number one complaint about your mother was that she didn't talk to you, right?
Yes.
And what did you say to your wife?
You said, why aren't you talking to me?
Yes.
So this was reactivating early childhood, babyhood, toddler, infancy, isolation, probably, right?
Yes.
Yes, in a furious way.
I mean, I was terrified.
Terrified, because at the time when you're supposed to be bonding with your son, or is it your son or your daughter?
Son.
At the time when you're supposed to be bonding with your son and being there for your wife, you are experiencing a primal and terrifying sense of loss and isolation.
And then you think that the solution comes from your wife, Filling up your needs, which she can't do.
She can't mother your son and you at the same time.
She can't mother you at all because you're an adult, right?
But rather than say, oh my God, I feel so terrible.
I better figure out what in my childhood this is like so that I can go and deal with it myself and come back with some resources for my wife.
You are needy to your wife when you want, what you really are is angry with your mother.
Yes.
Right.
So then she doesn't really understand this, I assume, right?
And doesn't say, hey, listen Nikos, I am absorbed with our son.
I am.
I carried him for nine months.
I'm breastfeeding him.
I'm sleeping with him.
I'm not getting enough sleep.
I'm tired a lot.
I have mommy brain, right?
Which is like you get fuzzy headed and you can't remember where your keys are or your shoes.
It's just mommy brain, right?
It's natural.
So, I'm sorry that you're feeling this way, but it's not to do with me and it's not to do with your son.
It's to do with your mom and with your dad.
So, go talk about it with them or go deal with it with a therapist with them or go talk to Steph if you want.
I don't, right?
But it's not... I can't fill this need in you because I did not cause this need in you.
You know, there's this weird thing in life.
Only the people who wound you can heal you.
Other people can't.
If your mother wounded you, if there's healing to happen, your mother can do it if she apologizes and takes ownership.
Or if you recognize that she's never going to do that, then there's healing in that, because at least there's closure in the end of hope.
You know, the extension of torture from childhood is the extension of hope.
It's the extension of hope.
Like, if you were to go to that bad neighborhood every time hoping you weren't going to get stabbed, and you kept getting stabbed, your hope would be trying to kill you, right?
Yes.
And if you're like, oh well, you know, I'm not going to grieve for the shitty things that happened in my childhood, because somehow, someone is going to make them whole, is going to fill that hole, is going to fill that wound, is going to make me better.
Then you can avoid the grieving and the mourning, right?
Because you're like, someone's going to come along and make it better.
But they can't.
The only people who can heal you are the people who wounded you.
Now, when I say that, people are going to say, oh great, now they have more power over me.
No, they don't.
Because the healing is in the clarity of the situations.
You go to your mom and you say, Mom, I had a shitty childhood and here's why, here's why, here's why, here's why, and I'm not leaving until we have a proper conversation about it.
Now, if you have some sort of proper conversation about it, then there's healing in that.
Because the proper conversation is your mom saying, I fucked up, you were a kid, it was 100% on me, which it was.
I'm sorry.
Here's what I can do.
Anytime you want to talk, here's some money for therapy.
Whatever it is, right?
Then there's some kind of healing in that.
But if she says, fuck off.
It was all you.
I did everything fine.
I did the best I could.
It was your dad's fault.
It has nothing to do with me.
You're making things up.
You're crazy.
Who put you up to this?
I love thy mother and thy father and God will put you in hell for questioning my matriarchy.
If she does all that, there's healing in that too.
Because what happens is, An amazing thing happens.
There's such agony in child abuse, in particular because as adults we're constantly looking back and saying, what did I do that I could have done better?
Like maybe I just kept going to a bad neighborhood and getting stabbed because I'm stupid.
But what happens is, Nikos, this amazing thing happens when you confront abusive parents as an adult, is with all of the resources and all of the intelligence and all of the freedom and all of the Independence that you have as an adult.
If you sit down with your mom, or your dad, or both, or whoever, whoever your abuser is, you sit down and you say, resolutely, with freedom, With courage, you say, here's what I want to talk about, here's what I want to deal with.
If you can't get anywhere, if they just escalate or avoid or abuse or dissociate or blank out or throw things or scream or go inert, go rubber bones or whatever, if you can't have that conversation, you know, you get this wonderful gift.
You get this wonderful gift, which is you say to your child, you had no fucking chance.
I did that.
I confront them.
How'd it go?
Just like you said the second time, not the first time.
She said, no, we're great.
What are you talking about?
And did you get any visibility, any headway with her at all?
You're ignorant.
You're very ignorant.
They were saying to me.
So they're abusing you when you're bringing up how they abused you, but saying that your memories of abuse are completely false.
Yes.
Good for them, man.
I mean, you gotta admire that kind of consistency in a weird way.
You should be grateful.
You should be grateful for us.
Right.
We give you everything.
Right.
So, adult Nikos had no chance to get any contact with his parents that was honest.
So, I hope this gives you a sense that child Nikos, little boy Nikos, had no chance whatsoever.
Yes.
And therefore, since he had no chance whatsoever, it's not his fault.
At all.
Zero percent.
As a child, right?
So what happened after that conversation with your parents?
This time that I was starting to listen to your shows and I realized that I should be giving to my child and not asking for my child to give to me.
I was returning home and I was saying, Oh, he's not sleeping yet.
Oh, he's whining.
Oh, he's crying.
Oh my God.
Why he's doing this to me?
Why is he not satisfying my needs?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, exactly, exactly.
And after that, I realized, no, no, no, no, no.
That's not the correct direction.
The correct direction is, I give to him.
Now, how did you think about things regarding, well, good for you, of course, if I want to pause and say, like, that's fantastic.
But what about your relationship with your wife, Nikos?
And what about the needs that you brought to her at a time when she was absorbed with your son?
Was that fair?
I'm sorry?
Was it fair to be so needy with your wife when she was consumed with caring for your son?
No.
Now, she has some responsibility for that too, just so you know, because she's an adult.
Do you know why she has some responsibility for your neediness?
She cultivated that.
Yeah, she did cultivate it, but even if she didn't, you knew each other for years before you had a baby together and she didn't talk to you about your history.
She didn't ask you questions.
She didn't help you learn.
She didn't confront your parents.
She didn't suggest that you do so.
She didn't find out about you as a human being before she decided to have a baby with you.
So she didn't figure out how many unmet needs might collapse on her like a house of bricks when a baby came along.
So she has some responsibility in that, and I'm not saying she doesn't, but it's still primarily your responsibility because it was your trauma.
Yes.
So if you go... Okay, let me give you a silly example from my past, right?
So many, many years ago I put on a play and I had a woman who was the set designer.
It was a very complex play and required like actual trees to be brought into the theater because part of it took place in a forest and it was really cool.
We had the lighting effects from the leaves and real trees in the theater.
And I was also dating the set designer at the same time.
Now, she kept going away for the weekend to find more material for the play, like more stuff for the set design and so on.
And this bothered me.
It was kind of crazy, because like, I want to see you this weekend.
She's like, no, I really got to get stuff sorted out for your set.
This is the most complex set I've ever worked on.
And after a weekend or two, I sort of shook my head and said, wait a minute.
Why am I making her life difficult when she's trying to make my life better?
Like, I'm sorry that she's not here for the weekend, but she's gone for the weekend to try and find trees to put on my set and bushes and branches and whatever, like she would spray them so that they wouldn't go get rotten during the course of the play and all that.
So she's actually out there trying to make my play a whole lot better and I'm crabbing on her for not being around when she's Helping me, right?
So I did.
I think it was a weekend or two where I was crabbing at her for not being around.
And then she came back and I'm like, you know what?
I'm sorry.
I'm way offline.
I'm way out of bounds here.
I'm way out of bounds here because I won't say it's the play that matters, but you're doing this because you want my play to look well and to look good.
And it did look great and it did do well.
That's the play I remember.
Oh gosh.
Okay, just a little tiny snippet of things before I die and they're all vanished from the world.
This is one of the times, if you're ever on this play, you'll find this kind of funny.
So one of the nights, the person who was supposed to do the front cache didn't show up, so I had to do the front cache and then I couldn't come into the play to watch it because I didn't want to disturb the play.
So I was listening to the play through the headset, but everyone else Who was like the lighting, the stage manager, lighting people behind the scenes, like all the other people who were involved in running the play were all talking back and forth and they were also talking about me.
And it's one of the few times in life where I've actually got a chance to listen into a conversation where people are talking about me with no idea whatsoever that I'm able to hear them.
And the funny thing is that none of it was bad.
I thought it was all pretty fair.
You know, he's kind of intense, but he's a hard worker, but he's talented, but it was all actually fair and honest commentary, which I thought was kind of nice.
Very much like the internet.
So, do you think that Given that you were trying to get your wife to satisfy the needs that your mother hadn't satisfied, that if that was unfair, do you owe her an apology for that?
Yes.
And I gave her that apology many, many, many, many times.
Okay.
Well, that means the apology didn't take.
So what happened?
So pretend I'm her, and how would you give that apology?
What would you say?
Okay.
Some time ago, before three years, I was saying to her every day, I'm really sorry.
I wasn't there for you in the most difficult time of your life.
I was acting like a child.
I was acting very badly to you.
I can understand that you were trying to raise our child.
And I was very stressful.
I was always on you while you were doing this, while you were not doing this.
And I was very stressful and not there for you.
I was not the man you wanted.
I was not the help you wanted.
But I was the opposite.
I was crying like a baby and I was not any help.
And I'm really, really sorry and I'm terrified for what I did to you.
It was horrible for about three years raising our child.
Wait, this was going on for three years?
Yes.
And when did you start listening to me again?
At that time.
About that time.
Our son is six years old.
Wait, beginning or end of those three years?
Our son was born six years ago, and I started listening to you three years ago.
Oh, so the first three years when you weren't listening to me was when you did the needy stuff, right?
Yes.
Okay, okay.
I just wanted to check whether my show had any traction at all in your brain.
Okay, good.
Now, what happened, Nikos, when you made this apology?
What would she say?
She said, what do you want me to do now?
If you want me to stay with you, because she was furious at that time too, I think she was ready to leave me.
I think she was ready to leave me.
So, she said, you better correct what you did wrong and what are you telling me all this?
Do it!
Wow!
Okay, so that's shitty on her part.
Have a different?
Yeah, I'll tell you why, for me.
Unless you haven't thought about that.
Excuse me, excuse me.
Do you want me to believe you?
You did this for three years.
Now you want me to believe you because one day you just apologized to me?
What the fuck?
I don't believe you.
Right.
Right.
So, in a couple, it's never one person's fault only, right?
It may be 90-10.
But it's never a hundred percent zero.
Ever.
Like, if you're walking down the street on a sunny day and somebody sucker punches you from behind, that's a hundred percent, right?
You know, if you go in and you start pool shark hustling Rod Stewart's dad style in a biker bar and you end up getting beaten up, well, it's not a hundred zero, right?
Because you did something to bring it about, right?
Okay, yes.
And, or even if you're a white guy, goes along and sings along with the lyrics of a rap concert, you might be in trouble.
But, that's not singing, but... So, here's the way it should work in a relationship, right?
Is that you say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and do you know what she's supposed to say if she's a decent human being?
Thank God.
I appreciate that, and I'm sorry too.
I'm sorry that I didn't ask you about your childhood.
I'm sorry that I wasn't more curious about what was happening with you.
I'm sorry that I reacted with such hostility when you were needy.
I'm sorry that we didn't deal with these problems before we had a baby.
I'm sorry about your childhood, Nikos.
I'm sorry about not seeing the immorality of your mother and your father.
I'm sorry about not being more responsible to make sure that we were both emotionally ready to have a child.
And I'm sorry that this went on for three years without me putting out the effort to figure out what was really going wrong.
Even if it was 80% you, it's still 20% her.
So the reasonable, decent thing is to say, thank you for your apology.
I really appreciate that.
I'm sorry too.
And that's how the walls come down and the hearts open up, right?
I mean, if she'd said something like that, how would you have felt?
Very, very nice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Instead, see, when you apologize, this is why vulnerability is so powerful in relationships.
Yes.
When you apologize, you are vulnerable.
Yes.
Now, the other person can either meet you in your vulnerability and meet you in your responsibility and take some of their own, or they can say, well, I'm going to sit up here on my fucking high throne of obsidian judgment and I'm just going to judge you.
Okay, let me give you an example.
She was just doing this.
I was trying for the first time in my life to try to learn how to play with my son and she was standing here and was saying to me, what?
Did you play five minutes and you think you're a father now?
Wait, why have you not played with your son?
I didn't give him any...
I thought a child doesn't really need his father.
He's growing up by himself, and when he was gonna be 6, 7, 8 years old, I would maybe talk to him.
Because I was raised like this.
No, no, don't give me because I was raised like this.
You still have ownership, right?
It's not unimportant, but it's not... I can't give you the no free will part here, right?
It's not dominoes that just fall down like it's inevitable, right?
But I had that idea.
I had that idea.
But didn't your son reach up to you with arms and want to play with his dad?
I was... No.
I was in work many, many hours and when I was home didn't really...
She didn't really want me around the child.
She didn't?
She was protecting, like she was protecting him from me.
She didn't let me do him a bath or sleep with him.
Why not?
Because I was useless.
Because I was no good.
What does that mean?
She wouldn't let you play with your son?
I'm trying to follow this.
What do you mean?
She didn't let me spend time with him.
I don't understand.
You'd come home, sit down with your son, and what would she do?
She'd say, get away from your son?
I don't understand.
She wouldn't let me give him a bath or sleep with him.
And when we were playing, she was gonna say, oh, you're very... you mess around the house.
Oh, you make a mess, right?
You make a mess in the house and you're dangerous because you let the child do this and this.
Oh, too much roughhousing.
Yeah, yeah.
He may be harmed.
He may fall.
Listen, listen, Nikos.
First of all, moms will never understand roughhousing.
Never.
Never expect them to.
It's never going to happen.
I don't understand tea parties and women don't understand roughhousing.
But roughhousing is very, very important.
And I was feeling, no, no, no, I don't want to hurt my child.
Why couldn't you give your child a bath?
Oh, because she may slip from my hands or something like this.
So is your wife very anxious?
She is.
Yeah.
Did she ever have anything unpleasant happen to her while she was being bathed?
I don't know.
Might be worth asking at some point.
Okay.
So why does she want to keep you and your son at arm's length?
Why does she want to keep you at distance from your son?
What's her motive?
What's her incentive for that?
Okay.
Let me give you an explanation that my brother told me.
He told me that I act like a very beta male.
So... Her mother told her that Nikos is not fit for father.
So... Her mother said that you weren't fit to be a father?
Yes.
Holy fuck.
What a horrible thing to say to her daughter.
Yeah, yeah.
In my face, too.
Oh, you were there?
In my face, too.
Like, uh, Nichols, you're too young.
You don't know.
Oh, you're too young.
You really married into a pretty vicious coven there, didn't you?
Holy shit.
The fuck?
Your mother-in-law said to your daughter, to her daughter, in front of you, that you weren't strong enough or knowledgeable enough or fit enough to be a father.
Yes, exactly what she's saying to her husband.
Oh, she says that to... your mother-in-law says that to your father-in-law?
Yes, all the time.
Wow!
Oh my gosh!
No wonder the Mediterranean is open for business.
Okay, so... So, what did you say at this point?
I was feeling guilty.
About what?
Useless and guilty too.
Oh, so she's saying you're useless like your mom said you were useless and the programming just takes over, right?
I think yes.
I think yes.
Right.
What did your... What did your wife say when her mom said you were an unfit father?
Oh, she...
Nothing.
She said nothing.
No loyalty to you.
No, you're wrong.
Mom, back off.
Don't ever say that to me again.
Don't ever say that about the father of my son.
No.
Okay.
Okay.
Let's bring that up too.
And also my father, my father told her that, um, because it's really, uh, it's really not, not, not, not the youngest, not the right word.
It's, um, He doesn't, not really responsible.
So don't let him around the child.
Your father said that?
Yes, yes.
Until the child grows like five years old.
Don't let him, hold him.
Yes.
And the explanation my brother gives is from an evolutionary standpoint, my father was the alpha male or Her mother was the alpha male.
Wait, your brother's theory is that your father was some kind of alpha male?
To the eyes of my wife.
But he wasn't anywhere close to an alpha male.
If he lets his wife push around his children and verbally insult and abuse them and just sits idly by while that happens, that is beyond beta.
That's fucking zeta to infinity.
That's spineless bullshit.
Nothingness.
That's go find your fucking balls in the matriarchal manor with a pair of tweezers and a blindfold.
That is not alpha male behavior.
An alpha male protects his children, you understand?
Okay, I can understand this.
An alpha male wards off the predators whether they're coming from outside the house or inside the house.
Whether they're coming in wolf fur or petticoats, the alpha male protects his children.
I surely understand that.
But I haven't lived with my parents, with my father.
And my father talks strongly, okay, about me.
In her eyes, Maybe the explanation my brother gives is valid.
So do you think that your wife sees your father-in-law as an alpha male?
No, she doesn't.
The reason that she doesn't is that her mother insulted you and your father also insulted you.
So in the eyes of your mother, sorry, in the eyes of your wife, Your father is a beta bitch, easily controlled by bullying women, and therefore, that's how she sees you.
Because your father didn't stand up and protect his son from a vicious kind of undermining on the part of your wife's mother.
He didn't say there and say, how dare you say that to my son!
How dare you say that to my son!
You better back off!
My son is a competent human being.
My son is a loving father.
He works hard.
He provides.
How dare you insult his capacities as a father?
And then he'd get up and he'd walk the fuck out of the house until he got an apology.
That would be an alpha behavior, right?
So when your wife's mother insults you in the most foundational way, and then your dad's like, oh, I quite agree.
Come on.
You think that's fucking alpha?
Oh my God.
Okay, yeah, I agree with you.
I'll be happy to throw my son under the bus because you appear to be somewhat of a mean lady.
It was not in the same conversation.
It doesn't matter.
Come on, I know that.
It doesn't matter.
Even if he hears it third hand, he goes and says, I mean, if someone ever said that to my kid, I'd be over on their doorstep in about 35 seconds.
And I'd say, tell me, tell me this isn't true.
I'm sure this can't be true.
You did not stand in front of my son and his wife and disparage my son's abilities as a father.
That did not happen.
I'm sure it's just vicious rumor.
I'm sure it's just made up by people who want to cause trouble because there's no way any sane fucking human being in the world would think that's a good idea.
So tell me that that's not true.
And then if they said it wasn't true, then what I'd do is I'd go find the person who told me, bring them over to their house and say, okay, well let's work this out, because I'm getting one story from you, I'm getting one story from you.
And you draw the fucking line!
You understand?
Yes, never happened.
Of course not, and it never will.
It never will.
Because cucking for women is working out so fucking well for Europe, isn't it?
I'm sorry?
Cucking for women is working out so well for Europe now, isn't it?
Just bending over and doing whatever women want and never confronting them and never making them too upset and never... This is why women have a soft spot for Muslims.
Yes, Greece is a terrible place.
No, I get it.
Women have got exactly what they wanted and they're not happy with it.
Boy, that's the first time that's ever happened in human history now, isn't it?
So, how's your son doing?
How's my son doing?
Yeah.
My son is excited that the last three years I want to play with him.
I talk to him.
I'm there for him.
He's, he's very He's very bright, but, but, as you say, if a person has a 200 IQ, but if you don't give him, if you don't teach him Japanese, he will never know Japanese.
So he's bright, but that's not enough, of course.
I want to give him interest.
I want to be Close to him.
To talk to him.
To open his heart.
So he can tell me things.
And he's telling me things.
But... He's also confused.
Very confused.
He's screaming at me sometimes.
He's screaming at his mother.
And he has some... How can I say that?
Some... Some reactions that he has too.
Okay?
For example, she screams when she has a problem.
My son.
Does it too?
Yeah, of course.
I mean, really, how could it be otherwise, right?
Yes?
Right.
How close do you think your wife is to filing papers, Nicholas?
I think very close.
And what is her number one complaint about you that is not manipulative but is genuine?
You know, because sometimes women, and maybe men too, I can't really speak to that, but sometimes women will say, my complaint about you is you don't help out around the house enough.
And then you try and help out around the house and what do they say?
You're doing it wrong!
Yes.
Right, so that's not a real complaint, that's just a control complaint, right?
That's just manipulation.
What do you think is her real, valid, number one complaint about you?
I am totally, totally confused.
You are confused?
Yes.
Because the times I try to stand up to my beliefs, to lead her, to take responsibility, to take actions, she's like, no, you don't listen to my opinion.
You're doing what you want.
What are you doing?
You're a Hitler.
I don't want you.
I'm going to leave.
Listen to me.
Okay?
Wait, does listen to her mean agree with her?
Because you can listen to someone without agreeing with them.
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay, well then you need to make that clear.
Like, I'm going to give you some real action stuff, right?
So when she says, listen to me, you can say, okay, well let's, what are we talking about here?
If I listen to you, am I allowed to disagree with you?
And if she says no, then it's like, okay, then just, what you need to say is obey me.
You want me to obey you without any thought of my own.
Now, she's going to have a tough time saying she wants that, right?
No, but if I say that to her, she will be, no, what are you talking about?
I just want you to listen to me.
Okay, but then we go back to, am I allowed to listen to you and disagree?
Hey, I tell you what, let's just do this, okay?
Let you be your wife, okay?
And let's roleplay this, alright?
Okay.
Alright.
Okay.
So, this is what I would say.
I've been a bad husband.
You've not been a perfect wife.
I've not... No.
No, no, no.
Let me finish.
Because you often say to me, you want me to listen to you.
Okay, well this is a time where I want you to listen to me.
You've not been a perfect wife.
Nobody is.
I mean, we have to at least understand that everybody has room for improvement somewhere.
So, the mistakes that I've made, I've let people walk all over me.
We didn't talk about stuff that was really important before we got married.
We didn't talk about when to have kids.
We didn't talk about values.
We didn't talk about how to raise kids.
I didn't know, when we got married, that you wouldn't let me bathe or hold my son for years.
I didn't know that.
Is that my fault?
Yeah, I could have asked, although that's not a question I really would have thought of.
Is that your fault?
Yeah.
You could have told me that, so that I'd have some idea what kind of parenting was going to go on.
Your mother has disrespected me in front of you, and you have not come to my defense.
It's not easy for me to fight with your mom.
It's easier for you to fight with your mom.
But when your mom says that I'm not a fit father, you really should have stuck up for me there, because it's really tough for me to do it.
Now, it's not just your mom.
My dad also betrayed me in these situations as well, so I'm not putting it all on you.
I thought, and this is wrong, I thought, okay, well the major job I have is to make money.
And that's why I was at work so much.
But when I wanted to play with my son and you kind of interfered, okay, I could have just said, no, I mean, I've been working all day and I'm tired, but I'm going to have this fight with you anyway.
I should have stepped up for that.
But also, you should not have interfered as much in me playing with my son or bathing my son.
That's not reasonable, right?
I mean, that's not allowing me to express myself.
As a parent, I don't like the fact that when we have disagreements, my dear, you keep threatening to leave.
Threatening to leave, threatening to divorce me is such an escalation.
It's such a bomb to throw into the relationship that it feels like, to me, or my experience, is that you just want to win the argument and you're willing to threaten me with divorce to do it.
I don't think that's fair.
That doesn't give us much negotiation.
I think... I experience... I get scared when I disagree with you because I think I'm gonna get punished.
Now, that's not all you.
Don't get me wrong.
I mean, this goes way back to my childhood.
My mom was a bully.
I'm not calling you a bully.
I'm just saying that the seeds for this kind of compliance...
I was sold when I was a kid with my mom, who was very dominant and very abusive and very nasty and called me names and never talked to me and so on.
And I know now that when you were born, like after our son was born and I came to you and I was so needy, it's because of a lot of that.
And that's not your fault.
Primarily because it wasn't like you didn't raise me, my mom raised me.
And it's not my fault because I didn't choose my mom.
It kind of just happened.
And we have both some responsibility because we really should have had more important conversations before we got married.
We should have had more important conversations before we had a baby.
We didn't.
We took this kind of light and easy route of just talking about the weather and politics and food prices and movies and you know.
And it was fun but there's a price to be paid which is we weren't ready for being parents now.
Moving forward, I have to be less needy.
It's not your fault that my mom didn't talk to me when I was growing up.
It's not your fault that my mom put all these terrible words in my head about how useless I was.
That's not your fault.
However, this is who you married.
And you chose me for a reason.
And you can't just condemn everything about me when you chose to have a child with me.
I mean, you can, but it's not fair.
It's certainly not fair on our son.
Because our son is half me, and if you say, or my son gets the impression that you dislike me, our son is going to think that you dislike him because he's A, a male, and B, he's half of me.
So, I need to model more assertive behavior for my son.
You can't always get your way.
I can't always give in.
That is not fair.
That is not reasonable.
And it leads exactly to this kind of contempt and hostility that you have towards me and this frustration and indifference that I have towards you.
So we have had this dynamic in our marriage where You get mad and I say, okay, you know, I kind of fold or maybe I get upset some other way or whatever, but we don't negotiate like we're both equals, like we can both reason things out and we can work and find something where we both win.
Right now, you win and I lose or I win and you lose, but we don't have a conversation where we can both win and both find something that is better than what we had.
before.
You complain about being too tired because you're parenting all the time but then when I come in and try and parent you tell me not to.
You tell me you're too tired from taking care of the house.
I try and take care of the house.
You tell me I'm doing it wrong.
This is sad and it's kind of like the past is just coming back to life every day and my childhood is coming back and maybe your childhood too is coming back every day.
But This is not good.
This is not good.
And I'll tell you this, my dear.
I know that you keep threatening this divorce with me and I think that's wrong.
I really think that's wrong.
It's just wrong.
But I'll tell you this.
I want to keep the marriage going.
I want to improve things.
I want to make things better between us.
I know they can be.
We just both have to take more responsibility.
And it can't be that I'm the only one who needs fixing and I'm the only one with problems.
Because if I have so many problems and you're perfect, then why the hell did you marry me?
You've got to have some flaws if you wanted to marry a guy with all these flaws.
And if you can't admit any of your flaws, then things can't work.
It can't work because I can't be the only one who has problems.
It's not fair.
But I'll tell you this.
This is not a threat.
It's just a consequence.
If you divorce me, but I want to continue and fix the marriage, And I will not lie to my son.
I will not lie to my son.
I want to work on the marriage.
I want to make things better.
If you divorce me, and my son comes and says, why did you and mommy split up?
I will say, because she wanted to leave, although I wanted to continue the relationship.
I wanted to work on the marriage.
I wanted to make things better.
She didn't want to.
She decided to leave.
The divorce is 100% her.
I was not a perfect husband.
Don't get me wrong.
I made mistakes.
I did things wrong.
Sometimes I was mean.
Sometimes she was mean.
But I wanted to fix it.
I wanted to work on it.
She's the one who left.
So the reason we're not married anymore is because of your mom.
Because I'm not going to lie to my son.
And I'm done taking ownership for things I didn't do.
I am not going to be responsible for the divorce if you leave me, because I'm here working to try and make things better.
And I'm not going to lie to my son.
You break up this marriage, I'm telling him the truth about what happened.
And if anyone asks me, I'm going to say, I wanted to work on it.
I had made mistakes.
I wanted to improve.
I apologized.
But she decided to break up the family anyway.
I will not lie.
I will not cover for you.
I will not pretend.
That it's anything other than what it is, which is you destroying the family because you don't want to work on it.
So we have a choice.
We have a fork in the road.
We have a son.
We have years and years together.
We can have a future together that's way better and way different than the past.
I'm not going to beg for you to stay because I'm done begging.
But I'm offering you my apology, my commitment to be better.
And offering you the possibility to take more ownership for your life.
Because if you don't have any ownership, if you're not responsible for anything, then you can't fix anything and then you're gonna just wander off.
And then you're gonna probably have some other relationship with some other guy where you take no responsibility and then you... It goes terrible with him and then it goes terrible with the next guy and it's terrible.
We don't need to do any of that.
We're here.
We care for each other.
We have a son together.
I'm willing to work on it.
I want to work on it.
I know.
That I can make things better for us?
I know that you can make things better for us.
So, I've got my hand outstretched to you to take as the mother of my son, as the wife of my marriage.
I hope that you will take my hand.
I hope that you will work together with me to make things better.
And if you don't, I'm sorry for that too.
But I'm done being quiet about things that aren't my fault.
No.
Oh, man.
Oh, man.
I tried to do that a few times, but I wasn't... I wasn't consistent.
I mean, I was saying to her these words, and afterwards I was begging her to stay.
No, no, don't do that.
Oh, God, no.
No, no.
No.
A woman begging a man to stay is one thing.
A man begging a woman to stay will just drive her away.
Women, like most people, respect strength and consequences.
So the strength is, I'm taking ownership.
I need you to take some ownership too.
We'll fix this.
And the consequences are, if you bust up this marriage, I'm not covering for you.
I'm going to tell whoever asks.
I'm not going to go out there and publish it in the town square.
I'm not going to take an ad out on Google.
But if anyone asks me, including our son, why did you and mommy get divorced?
It's like, well, I wanted to work on it, but your mom wanted to divorce and break up the family.
Now that's a consequence.
That's a real consequence.
We're not lying, right?
Yes.
So that's a consequence.
I mean, we'd love it if people were just virtuous without consequences, but that's not true, right?
I mean, the reason the free market works is there's consequences, and the reason communism and central planning doesn't, there's no consequences, at least in the short run.
Oh man, I feel so guilty doing this to my child.
What do you mean?
Risking.
If I confront her like this, I feel so terribly guilty that I risk That she will divorce me and take my child and my child will be raised... Daryl, listen, dude.
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
No, go ahead, go ahead, sorry.
I'm feeling so guilty that my child is going to be raised without me.
No, why would your child be raised without you?
I won't be around him.
Why?
You'd just get shared custody, wouldn't you?
I don't know.
Maybe she will drag me into court and...
Divorce me, leave town, go to her mother, who she leaves... But hang on, hang on.
Then you take her to court.
Like, if she tries to kidnap your son and take him away from you, you go to court, right?
Of course, I understand what you mean, and I'm furious, and I'm thinking about this, and the next minute I say, oh my God, My son will be in court seeing us fighting like this.
He will see a father fighting for him.
Because what he's seeing right now, Nikos, is a father with no power.
Yes.
Yes.
That is damaging to him.
Yes.
He is seeing that men have no power.
Yes.
That men must just bow and scrape and appease and apologize and beg.
What's that doing to him?
Yes, I'm thinking that too.
How is he going to develop respect for you?
Yes, exactly.
That's what I'm thinking and I'm at a dead end.
I don't know what to do.
Also, you can say to your wife that boys in particular, girls too, but boys in particular who are raised without their fathers do very badly.
Oh, she doesn't give a shit.
I have told that many times.
What did she say?
Bullshit!
That's the argument?
Bullshit?
Yes, better for him to live with... She said to him, oh listen Nikos, it's better for our child to be raised by me, because I will be so calm without you, far away from you, And our child will be raised nicely and calmly.
Wait, she said far away from you?
Yes.
So she might really go for sole custody, right?
Yes.
Because if we're together, we're fighting all the time, and that's bad for our son.
Why are you fighting with her?
Why I'm fighting for her?
No, why are you fighting with her?
Okay.
I'm fighting with her because... I confront her on some issues.
Her parents... Look what they're doing to you.
Why don't you see that?
Okay, but why are you trying to get her to understand things about her parents?
Okay to change her behavior towards me and our child.
Because right now, she screams at him like her mother was screaming at her.
Right.
And the data that screaming at children is bad for them, she'll just say bullshit to that too, right?
Yes.
Also, Another issue.
Okay, important.
Economic issue.
I said to her about three, four months ago.
Okay, we were, our pharmacy were robbed.
Robbed.
Four months ago.
They steal from us some important money.
Who robbed you, do you know?
No.
If you live in Greece, that's an everyday issue.
I'll be quite honest with you.
Is it migrants?
Is it immigrants?
Is it Greeks?
I mean, who's stealing?
No, it is Greeks.
It is Greeks in my area.
But it doesn't really matter.
They wanted money, right?
Not the drugs?
No, they wanted money.
So I said to her, OK, look, now we have to be more... to change our economics, to spend less.
And she went furious.
And I mean, it's not like I'm poor, OK?
No, I get it.
So you're asking her to cut back a little because you got robbed.
I make very, very, very, very good coins considering Greece.
Okay?
And I'm only telling, I'm only saying this to clear that I'm not asking her to starve or something.
No, no, no, I get it.
Okay.
Does she work?
She was working with me to our pharmacy, in our pharmacy.
And some months ago, I said to her, "Okay, you're complaining, you work all the time, you don't spend much time with our child, so..." Oh, wait, who's raising your child?
Let me say this.
Before three years, she started taking pills, antidepressant pills.
For two straight years.
When I talked to her and managed to stop them, after a few days, a few months, I said to her, now that I think you're feeling better, stay at home, raise our child, spend time with him, spend more time with him, clear your mind, and let's have a better life.
Don't come to work I will figure it out.
Have your time.
Raise our child.
clear your mind.
And she stayed home, but she didn't...
She may have spent some time more with our child but most of the time she's out because in the previous years she was pretty much at home and now she's always out.
She wants to go with her friends to spend the night.
Uh, to drink, to have fun.
Wait, she's got a son at home, and she's out with her friends drinking and spending the night where?
Yes, because we have a nanny.
Okay?
You have one child, a stay-at-home mom, and a nanny?
Oh yes.
Oh my god.
And a six-year-old child.
Oh my god!
Man, did you marry a bit of a dud.
Holy crap.
Go on.
And.
And, like I said, we have a nanny.
She stays with the child.
And, I mean, I was trying to give her time after her mind was more clear.
Cut the drugs, okay?
So I said to myself, Nikos, give her time, man.
She never had that time.
Not with her mother, not when the child was born because I was not there, not when she was taking drugs.
Now is the time.
Give her time, man.
Don't be harsh towards her.
And instead, I mean, she hadn't cheated me.
I think I know this.
I strongly believe this.
But she wants to go out to drink, to have time with her friends.
She's always on Facebook.
She didn't really change her behavior.
She didn't really say, thank you.
Thank you, you're giving me time.
I will clear my mind.
I want to Make a better family.
She's going out to get male attention.
Yes.
Which is, if you're acting in the beta manner, I'm not taking responsibility away from her, but it's one of the inevitable consequences that if you're beta, then she's going to go out and want male attention.
Yes.
I can feel this.
Oh, yes.
So, you can't change other people, man.
As you know, you can only change yourself.
You have to act in a way that... If you act in a way where you have integrity with your values, with sensible, rational values, with self-esteem, with being reasonable, with being assertive with your needs and preferences.
If you act in a way that is honorable, you will never regret the outcome in the long run.
Never!
Now, you might say, oh my gosh, I acted in an honorable way and my wife left me.
Well, then she was going to leave you anyway.
But at least when you leave her, you're not pathetic.
At least when she leaves you, you're not pathetic.
Okay, I understand.
So, you have to act in a way that is responsible to your needs, that is responsible to the mistakes and the wrong and bad things that you've done in the marriage, that's responsible to what your son needs, which is an example of an assertive father.
Because men have been talked into this idea that somehow assertiveness is the same as rage and destruction and abuse and patriarchy.
It's all bullshit, right?
You have to act in a way that's honorable and decent and true.
Now then, if she says, I can't stand you when you're a good guy, I'm leaving.
Like, I hate to say it, but good fucking riddance.
Like, you got to deal with your son and all of that sort of stuff.
But if you being a decent and honorable man drives Your wife away, you just have saved yourself 40 years of unbelievable misery.
If she's not going to change, right?
She's just going to whittle away at you forever and you're going to lose 20 years of your life just from stress and frustration, right?
So you act in an honorable manner, though the sky fall.
You have to.
Because acting in a cucked manner isn't working.
Like acting in a appeasing and, oh honey, please don't, right?
It's not working.
Yes.
And probably sooner or later she's just going to leave you anyway.
It's going to be worse though, because then if she leaves you when you're strong, at least you can say she can't handle strength.
If she leaves you when you're weak, you will always say to yourself, what if I'd been more strong?
Right?
What if I'd been more assertive?
What if I'd been more, that could have saved you, right?
Yes.
So act in a strong manner.
And if she leaves you, it's because she can't handle a strong man.
And then you know what you get to know?
You get to know that the whole reason she married you was because you were, in her mind, weak, right?
Yes.
And then what are you going to do?
You spend the rest of your life being weak and non-existent and spineless?
That's horrible.
There's no way to live.
And it's no example for your son.
It is horrible.
And then you never have to respect her again, which is great.
If she's putting you down, if you respect someone who's putting you down, you're just agreeing with them.
But if somebody is contemptible and they're putting you down, you don't internalize that because you don't respect the source of the money.
Like if somebody tries to pay a bill in your pharmacy store, With a five-euro note, and five euros is written on crayon on a piece of toilet paper, you don't take that currency, because you don't respect the currency.
It's not real currency.
So if you don't respect someone, they can't hurt you anymore.
Whereas if you continue to respect someone who's putting you down, you're just agreeing with them that you are Malaka, or whatever she's saying, right?
So you have to act in a way that's honorable and strong.
If she then leaves you, then you don't have to respect her anymore.
She can't hurt you.
I fear that I don't, I can't separate being assertive or being harsh.
I fear that I don't know how To do this?
No, you do it not in opposition to anyone.
This is the key, Nikos.
Nikos, you don't do it in opposition to someone.
You don't say, I'm doing this to define you.
Okay, let's say, you want to take your son to a movie, right?
And your wife says, no, he's going to have candy, and the movie is too loud, and he's going to get confused, and he won't be able to sleep tonight, whatever, right?
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay, so you don't have to get mad at her.
You don't, oh, I'm going to take her to the movie.
Who are you to, right?
You just say, I've listened to you.
I appreciate what you're saying.
I'm taking him to the movie anyway.
Oh, but you don't have to stay up at night and you're, I'm taking, he wants to go to, like you don't have to get mad.
He wants to go, my son wants to go to this movie.
It's age appropriate.
I've checked.
I may in fact buy him a little candy.
We may have some popcorn.
I'm not going to give him Coca-Cola, but He wants to go to the movie.
I want to go to the movie.
You're welcome to come to the movie.
But if you don't want to come to the movie, that's fine too.
I'm going to the movie.
She's going to try and draw you in.
You don't fight.
That's why I said, why are you fighting with your wife?
You just go to the movie.
And at some point, you go to the movie like she's not even there.
Like, she continued to make noise.
It's like, yeah, I'm sorry you're upset, but we're going to the movie.
Because the reason she makes noise at you is because it works.
It engages you.
You fight with her.
She gets validation.
She gets contact in a horrible way.
If you just pretend like the people crapping at you aren't there, don't engage.
You want to take your son to the park, and she's like, oh, it's gonna rain, you can't go.
And it's like, well, I'm sorry that you feel that way, and I guess this means you're not coming, but we're still going to the park.
Well, I'm sorry.
And after a while, you just get up and you go to the park.
You get your son ready, like she's not even there.
And it will, she'll escalate, because she'll get more and more mad, because she wants to control you and all that.
But assertiveness is not thumping at people, it's just walking through them.
It's just walking around them.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, you don't have to attack people, you don't have to oppose people.
Like, there's thousands of people out there who hate everything that I do, right?
Because I say to people, go confront your abusive parents because you want to live an honest and authentic life.
How happy do you think the abusive parents are that I tell people to do that?
Well, they hate it, of course, right?
They hate it because they don't want their children to come and confront them because then they might actually suffer negative consequences for their evil deeds.
I get that.
I'm sorry that they abuse their kids and I'm sorry that the honorable course is for their children to talk to them when they're adults about it.
But, you know, sorry.
I didn't abuse my kid.
I'm, you know, like, I'm sorry about that, but I wish you hadn't abused your kids.
But you did, so you got to deal with the consequences.
And so there's many people out there.
Now, I could sit there, and I could engage with everyone, and I could fight with everyone.
I don't.
I just do my show like they're not there.
Because in my head, they're kind of not there.
Because I don't respect them.
I don't respect people who abuse their children and then try to bully someone who's standing up for their adult kids.
No, I don't respect them.
I have nothing but contempt for those people.
So when you have contempt for people, you don't fight with them.
You just live your life like they're not there, because they're kind of not.
Who cares?
So with your wife, you want to take your son somewhere, you get into this big fight.
Why?
You just take your son and go somewhere.
Because I'm afraid of her.
Afraid of what?
Afraid of living and take my child with her.
You can't live like that.
You can't.
That's not being alive.
Yes, I feel this.
You will hate her to a degree that will probably be dangerous.
And certainly it's not good for your son.
No, seriously, it's dangerous to your health.
You might explode in anger.
You cannot live like that.
You have to act in the right way.
You have to model courage to your son.
You have to, in the same way you have to give your son food, you have to give your son a steady diet of courage.
I understand, I understand completely.
But I'm filled with guilt.
She's going to take him away from me and that's my fault?
Am I responsible?
What to do?
But you know what you're doing right now, aren't you just appeasing?
Or fighting with her.
Like, I don't get the fighting.
Like, if you're going to appease, don't fight with her.
And if you're going to go and do what you want to do, that's reasonable, don't fight with her.
I just don't get the fighting.
Why are you fighting with her?
So, I didn't fight with her for the past few days.
I talked to her about our economics.
And when she saw that I'm not fighting with her anymore, I will do what it takes to have money, to save money.
Saved by family.
She went furious.
Right.
And?
And she threatened to leave me.
Sure.
She called the lawyer.
Yep.
And you cannot let yourself be bullied in that way.
You can say to her, listen, I'll dial the lawyer for you.
But I'm gonna tell my son if he asks why the family broke up and I'm gonna say it's because you wanted to leave me and you wanted to call the lawyer and I wanted it to continue to work and you didn't.
So you can call the lawyer, absolutely.
And you can pay the lawyer's bills if you want.
But I'm gonna tell the truth about why our family ended and it's because of you.
But you cannot let yourself be bullied in this way.
Because It won't work.
Appeasement doesn't work.
Yes.
I understand this.
And your son?
Needs to see a father who can stand up for himself.
Not fighting with her, right?
Not fighting with her.
Fighting is... It's going down to her level.
Don't fight with her.
But don't appease her.
You know, it's perfectly fine if your wife is raging at you, just say, like, I'm sorry you feel that way.
Like, I'm sorry you feel that way.
Well, you got robbed.
You say, well, we got robbed.
You can't spend as much.
Oh, I really want to spend much.
I'm really sorry you feel that way.
Yeah, that's tough.
I sympathize.
I really do.
It doesn't change anything.
You can't give in.
I mean, if your son had a tantrum and you're like, I want candy and you give him candy, you're just buying the next tantrum every time you appease or you engage or you fight.
Yes, I understand.
Oh man, I'm so... I'm so terrified.
I know.
And you have done your part to grow the situation into the mess that it is because of the appeasement.
And I understand that as well.
You've had no support in your life.
And I feel... Outside of your brother in this conversation with me, who has stood up and listened and tried to help you in your life?
No one.
No one?
I feel very guilty for my child because I was not there for him when he was born and that makes me... Okay, but how do you solve that?
Let's say you're entirely right about that.
What does your son need from you now to make up for that?
Is more guilt and appeasement and weakness?
Is that going to help your son?
Or does your son need to see a strong male who can stand up for himself?
How is your guilt doing anything other than further harming your son?
By robbing you of strength and of resolution.
It's self-indulgent, you understand, to indulge your own guilt.
It's not about your son.
You're feeling guilty so you don't have to stand up for yourself.
The guilt is to avoid your fear.
Because the moment you said you felt terrified, then you said you felt guilty.
So the guilt is designed to paralyze you so you don't have to face your fear.
It's not about your son.
It's about you.
It's about avoiding your fear.
And I understand the fear.
I sympathize with the fear.
But don't tell me it's about your son.
It's not.
Your son needs a confident adult male in his life.
Your son does not need some guilt-wracked paralytic.
Yes.
Yes.
Totally makes sense.
And you think that standing up to your wife means a screaming match?
It doesn't.
Assertiveness is quiet.
It's resolute.
It's not screaming now.
No, it's just saying no.
It's informing people of reality.
It's not inflicting an opinion.
If you're out of money for the moment, and you say to your wife, we can't spend any money, and she gets mad, it's like, I'm sorry that you're mad at math.
I'm like, I'm sorry.
But this is the facts of the situation, and I'm afraid that having a tantrum isn't going to change that.
You don't have to yell at her.
Don't engage.
You're so selfish.
You want to spend money we don't have.
Forget that.
It doesn't matter.
Masculine authority is the authority of reality.
Feminine authority has its own power, which we can talk about another time, but masculine authority is just saying, two and two make four.
And you don't have to scream two and two make four, you just, you say it.
I mean, she acts subconsciously, very, very subconsciously.
No, forget about thinking about her motives.
God, men spend so much time thinking about women and their motives.
It's crazy.
Don't.
Don't try and figure out why she's doing what she's doing.
That doesn't matter.
Because when I ask you to be assertive, you start figuring out what's causing her behavior.
As if you can somehow change her.
This is why you wanted her to know about her parents and her childhood and her history.
Forget all of that.
Why someone rejects that two and two make four doesn't really matter.
Two and two still make four.
Because she doesn't have consequences.
Well, you're shielding her from consequences.
Yes.
Right.
Well, and that's treating her as a child, and that's disrespectful.
And if you're disrespectful to her, she's going to be disrespectful to you.
There's nothing more disrespectful than failing to hold people to consequences.
That's what we do with toddlers.
And if you treat your wife like a toddler, she's going to act like a toddler.
If you treat your wife like an adult, well, maybe she'll leave you.
Or maybe she'll grow up.
But if you continue to treat her like a toddler, you're participating in a toxic relationship.
Yes.
Yes, I do.
And if she wants to leave you, say, I phoned the lawyer, I'm making the decision.
Okay, I'll phone my lawyer.
I'm gonna give you not more, not one penny more than I absolutely have to.
I'm gonna fight you in court for five to ten years if I have to and I'm gonna tell my son the truth about who broke up this family.
Now, are we going to proceed with this or not?
Yes, I understand what you mean.
You're not screaming at her.
You're just saying there will be consequences.
And I'm not choosing those consequences.
You are.
If you choose to leave me and break up this family, I'm not going to lie to my son.
You are choosing the words that I'm going to tell my son by your actions.
There, but you ruined my life.
Oh, oh.
Okay, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I understand.
No, no, okay, so if she says, but you ruined my life and so on, right?
Well, who chose me?
You chose me.
You chose to date me.
We dated for two years.
You chose to get married to me.
You chose to have a child with me.
Do you have no responsibility?
I didn't know.
You're two-faced.
You weren't like that when I met you.
You're two-faced.
So, are you saying that we had really, really important conversations about values before we got married?
We didn't.
We both avoided those topics and that was a mistake.
But that doesn't mean it's a mistake that has to ruin our lives forever.
We can just fix it.
You were hiding from me.
You were another man.
I didn't know you're such a shitty man.
Oh, so you're a terrible judge of character, but you'll be wonderful to raise our child alone.
Oh, don't give me that.
Does that mean that your next boyfriend will also be two-faced and you'll have no chance to figure out who he really is?
You met me, you knew me for two years, you met my family, you met my brother, you knew everything about me.
Don't give me this you had no idea.
Come on.
Don't give me that bullshit.
You're a good doctor.
I couldn't see, but now I see that you're a bad man.
So, I'm just a bad man.
You had no way of knowing beforehand.
You're completely, 100% a victim.
You had nothing to do with any problems in our marriage.
Is that the idea?
Yes.
Yes, I was a victim.
So, no.
Would she seriously say she had absolutely nothing to do with any problems in the marriage?
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah?
Okay.
Well, then you may be done.
You may be done.
If she's not going to take any responsibility whatsoever, if she's completely wedded to 0% responsibility victimhood, no.
Then you say, well, you're wrong.
You're wrong.
You can say, oh, I'm just this evil Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde guy, and I had everyone completely fooled, and I was just this terrible guy and hid it from you completely.
I mean, yeah, okay, you can say all that.
And you can say, I have 0% any responsibility to do with any problems in this relationship, but you're wrong.
It's just not accurate.
It's just not true.
You're part of this relationship.
You are.
And if you're so easily fooled, how can you be a good mom?
No, don't give me the shit.
Now I grew up, now I know I can judge and all this.
Right, and so your supposed maturity, your big growing up phase, is that you have 0% responsibility for any problems in the relationship.
That's what you call growing up, is taking no responsibility whatsoever?
Oh, don't give me that.
I may have some responsibility, but it's something like... Oh, good.
Listen, that's huge progress.
Good for you, dear.
Like, no, seriously, I praise you for that statement.
Because in the space of about 45 seconds, you've gone from 0% responsibility to maybe some.
Now, that's good progress.
So if we can just keep that going, 45 seconds after 45 seconds, until you get to 50% responsibility, which is the fact, Good!
That's fantastic progress.
So now when you said zero percent responsibility, you were wrong.
And now that you can look back 45 seconds and see that you were wrong 45 seconds ago, you can start to develop some humility about whether you're right about everything and we can have a productive conversation where we can both improve.
This is great news.
Okay, I had that conversation with her and she said to me, we will never be equal because we were not equally Uh... I don't know.
Responsible for what happened.
Okay, but then she'll have... So, is it 1%?
Is it 25%?
Is it 49%?
Like, what percentage does... If she's 1%, it's like, come on.
Come on.
Is she at all a feminist?
No, it's like... It's like elections.
If you have 51%, oh, you're responsible.
Just...
Just like that.
Well, except I would point out that this is a marriage, not an election.
If she goes from 0% responsibility to some level of responsibility, that's a step forward.
And you've just got to keep chipping away at that.
OK, you get the point.
She's always... I owe her.
I always, always owe her.
Sure.
Because it works.
When she pushes the guilt button, you pay up, right?
Yes.
Like every other white man in the moon universe.
So, you just have to change what you're doing.
If she's reacting to you, if she's trying to control you, if you refuse to be controlled, she's going to have to change her behavior.
And she's going to get mad, but it's for the good.
It's for the best for her, no matter what in her life.
You're not helping her be a better person at all by appeasing her tantrums, right?
Yeah, I understand this.
And maybe if you can find, I would assume, a male therapist who's got some capacity to help you with assertiveness training or this kind of stuff, there's a lot you can do.
It's not actually that hard to do.
It's not that hard to do.
You just have to be really, really honest.
I've got a whole book called Real-Time Relationships about all of this.
You just have to be really, really honest with people about what you think and feel in the moment.
Assertiveness is not some weird ninja trick or learning another language.
All it is is just being honest.
Yes.
Thanks.
All right.
Well, listen, we've been cooking at this for about two hours.
I know it's an important thing for your marriage.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Listen, you're very welcome.
And I really do appreciate, Nikos, that you contacted me in this way.
I mean, you care about your marriage.
How was the conversation for you in terms of helpfulness?
I think it helped me clear my mind.
Very much.
I think I... I can understand that I have to be honest and assertive for myself and for my child too.
This is very important.
You help me with my guilt.
Because I was feeling terribly guilty to divorce and let my child be raised without me.
I was terribly guilty!
Oh my God.
No, and listen, if the other thing too, if she runs to lawyers, right, and you have to run to lawyers, you know, you lose half your stuff to lawyers, and each person gets 25%, and then your son says, well, why don't we have as much money?
Because your mom wanted to take me to court.
I didn't want to go to court.
I would have been happy with 50-50 custody, but your mom wanted to take me to court, so I had to spend a lot of money that you would have inherited fighting your mom, otherwise I would have lost you completely, which was not acceptable to me.
Just be honest.
You've got to tell your wife ahead of time that you're going to be honest.
Otherwise, it's manipulative.
You say ahead of time, if you want to fight me in court and we're going to lose half the family money, I'm telling my son directly that the reason he's growing up poor is because of you.
That's not a punishing statement.
That's just a factual statement.
Fight me all you want.
I'll fight you right back and I'll have to be honest.
About why we can't go on vacation, why he can't get a bicycle, why he can't get a computer, because you decided to hand over half the family fortune to lawyers because you were in a bad mood.
Right?
I've just got to be honest.
I mean, maybe she'll just not care.
Maybe she's just so...
Low time preference that she just won't care about any of that.
But yeah, just be honest about the consequences of people and that, you know, if they're not innately virtuous, that might give them some training.
And then once she's experienced a more reasonable way of interacting with people, she probably will like it to the point where it'll be more tempting for her next time.
Okay, I understand.
Thank you.
Will you let me know how it goes?
Of course.
Does she speak English?
No.
Oh, it's too bad.
Otherwise, I'd say have her call in.
No, no, no.
She doesn't want to speak with you.
You never know.
You never know.
All right, but listen, keep me posted, man, and I'm sorry for this situation, and I really want to remind people out there that this is a very tough place to negotiate from.
It's a very tough place to be.
So please, please, my friends out there, and I'm sure you'll back me up on this, Nikos, have important conversations about values, A, before you get heavily involved, B, before you get engaged, C, before you get married, and definitely D, before you decide to have children, where you're shackled at the hip for 20 plus years.
I hope that people will take that lesson.
So thank you very much.
Keep me posted my friend.
Thank you so much for the conversation.
Yes, you should do this.
You can't even imagine how terrifying and difficult this is.
Oh, and I sympathize with all of that and I'm sure people will want to know how it goes.
