Aug. 27, 2018 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
23:47
4178 ‘Does Australia Have White Privilege?’ | Stefan Molyneux Interviews Australians
What are the biggest issues facing Australia at the moment? Does Australia have white privilege? Should Australia have any limits immigration? Does Australia have adequate political representation for minority groups? Stefan Molyneux took to the streets in Australia to speak with residents about the political issues they believe to be the most important within the country. Your support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
We just wanted to get a sense of what do you think the big issues are facing Australia at the moment?
Definitely fracking amongst the Indigenous community, refugees.
I guess there's a lot.
Definitely, I guess, with just representation of Indigenous people.
With regards to immigration, do you feel it's too low, too high, just about right?
I feel like it's about right, but I feel like the representation isn't there.
I don't feel like a lot of Australians are kind of educated on what's happening with refugees or immigration in general.
So what would you like to say to Australians to educate them about those issues?
I guess it's a big one, just listening and showing empathy.
Definitely listening to other people's stories.
I don't know, I guess.
Well, the refugees are very expensive to the Australian taxpayer as a whole.
Like, they tend to be a net consumer of government services compared to taxpayers.
What's the case that you would make for Australians as to why their taxes should go up or their debt should go up and their consumption of public resources should go up in return for what?
That's a big one.
I personally don't feel like it affects the tax.
The refugees don't really affect tax in general.
I feel like there's a lot of room for everyone and a lot of resources, but it's just not shared evenly.
Do you think that the refugees don't cost money?
I feel like every person costs money.
I just feel it's not this extreme situation, this extreme perception that we have with letting people in to the country.
Well, but some people pay taxes, and we would assume that the refugees would be paying less, if anything, in taxes, at least for the first little while.
Yeah, definitely, but I don't know what the question is.
Well, the question is, when it comes to, it is going to cost more for Australians and so on, and what do you think they would get in return?
The Australians would get in return.
Yeah, for the refugees. For the refugees.
I don't think it's a physical thing.
I guess it just...
I don't know. Sorry, I'm so put off.
No, no, that's fine. Listen, I really, really appreciate your time.
No, thank you. It's a good question though, right?
I mean, it's tough to answer. Thank you very much for your time.
Appreciate it. Hannah, I'm Stefan.
So we're just in here and we just wanted to know what you think is the biggest issue facing Australia at the moment in terms of politics.
Well, I guess it always is equality.
Equality how? Oh, that, you know, everybody has the same sort of standard of living and opportunities.
Do you think that there's a bigger gap between rich and poor at the moment, or is it getting better?
No, I definitely think there's a bigger gap.
Do you think that bringing in a lot of immigrants who maybe don't have skills, don't speak English and so on, is that increasing, do you think, or decreasing the gap?
I think that this country was founded on immigrants, so it's not really fair for us to say that people from other countries can't come here because that's how we were founded.
Like me as a white woman, I'm quite privileged to be here, but my ancestors obviously So the argument is that because white people stole the land from the indigenous populations, that you can't ever say no to people who want to come to Australia?
Absolutely. How many people in the world do you think would like to come and live in Australia?
Like when you think of India and other places where they're really, really poor, how many people in the world, 6 billion, 7 billion people in the world, how many of them do you think would like to come and live in Australia?
I couldn't possibly put a number on it.
But it would be a lot, right? It would be billions of billions of people who'd want to come and live.
I think we're very lucky and I think we have a lot of opportunity and we have a lot of land that is also a lot of land that isn't inhabited and it's not being used for anything.
So if you were in charge of government, let me ask you this, if you were in charge of government, what would be your upper limit for the number of people who could move to Australia from the world in any year?
I couldn't give a number because I don't know how many people.
I don't know. I couldn't give you a number.
Well, right now, it's about 190,000 coming in a year in a population of, what, 20, 25 million or so?
25 million, I think. So would you increase that?
I think we should let more people in, definitely.
But I think that we need to treat them better when they arrive.
How so? I don't think that, I mean, I'm a primary school teacher by trade.
I don't think that it's fair that children are separated from their parents who are refugees.
And I don't think that refugee camps have the resources.
We don't provide refugee camps with the resources to accommodate people properly.
Right. And as a primary school teacher, do you teach the children that the land was stolen and it's not particularly legitimate for them to be here?
Well, that's two different things.
So the land could have been stolen, but it is still legitimate for them to be here.
Well, I mean, I think that...
That problem, in terms of Indigenous Australians, that is something that we definitely need to still work on.
But in the same sentence, there is enough space to have other people.
The Indigenous thing that I'm talking about is taking their land from them, right?
And not giving the rights to, like, sacred places that, you know, was part of their original...
Well, they were hunter-gatherers, though.
They weren't particularly landowners in the way that Europeans were, right?
Yes, they were. Right, right.
Well, I really thank you for your time.
I appreciate that. It's really helped me to understand.
Thank you. So we're just trying to sort of understand a little bit more about Australia and Australians and so on.
Do you think that Australia is a white supremacist nation?
Do you think there's a lot of white privilege here, or do you think it's more egalitarian?
Yeah, well, I come from Brazil, so compared to Brazil that has more black people, I would say that it has white privilege, for sure.
I already had a few cases that...
Well, I'm a black girl, so...
Yeah, but it has a white supremacy, especially when you come people from the towns, I would say.
And you said something happened to you, like you've had some incidents with it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, I don't know, like, do you know dreadlocks?
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes, I did dreadlocks and they fired me away.
For the dreadlocks? Yeah.
Is that legal? And do you think that there's more white supremacy in Australia or in Brazil?
Yeah, in Australia for sure.
Because here it comes, I think, from the UK generation.
And because of the aboriginals, they don't have the culture of aboriginals, for example.
And back home we have the aboriginals culture, for sure.
Do you think, so you say that the British people, would they be more racist as a whole?
No, it's not the British.
I'm saying that the culture comes from...
It's like a British culture that comes to Australia.
So it's not like Aboriginal culture.
Especially for what happened in Australia.
You guys don't have...
Australia doesn't have the culture of the Aboriginal, so it's less...
I don't know. You guys don't understand what it's true.
Like, Australia doesn't understand much what is actually the country came from, from the Aboriginal.
Do you admire the Aboriginal culture?
Yeah, yeah. And what do you like about it?
I don't know. The music, the food, the rituals, the religious.
Do you know that in a lot of Aboriginal cultures, one of the punishments for women who disobeyed the laws was mass rape?
Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm going to assume that's not one of the things that you admire.
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's like, as any culture, we did some mistakes.
Australia killed the Aboriginals, and not because of this Australia is a bad country.
It's just like, sometimes they cannot understand it.
What draws you to Australia?
Sorry to interrupt. If for you, Australia has more white supremacy than Brazil, what is it that draws you to a country where you feel that you may be more oppressed?
Well, I don't understand your question, sorry.
So you say that there's more white privilege or white supremacy in Australia as opposed to Brazil, but you moved to Australia.
It seems odd if there's more white supremacy that you would move to Australia.
Yeah, yeah, of course. But I didn't move to Australia because of this, and I didn't expect to have these problems here.
I thought there was a really...
Well culture that like everyone is welcome and like you come here and see for example the LGBT like is still having problems with this like and not approve the gay marriage or Australia about the aboriginals don't put the for example I was living in Millers Point Do you think that there could be a time when the debt is paid?
No, I don't think.
It goes on forever? No, yeah.
Like, it should never end.
Like, our grandchildren's grandchildren's grandchildren should still be paying tens of billions of dollars a year to the Aboriginals?
No, like, I don't know.
It needs to change the culture.
It's not about paying. It's about accepting.
No, it is kind of. Lots of money goes from the whites to the Aborigines, right?
Yeah, of course. Should that go on forever, or should that ever end, do you think?
I actually need to analyze the cases, because back home we have quotes, but it's not fair as well, because you pay university for the aboriginals and you pay for the black people, and sometimes they have money and they have everything they need.
So it's actually a case to analyze.
We need to see what is the gaps in the aboriginals if they have support.
Where is missing the support?
Is money that they're going to help, but they need like a school for them.
Because it's actually like no money going to them because like back home we have money coming to the aboriginals, but it's not enough.
But I'm sure that here in Australia is not the case.
You have money too.
No problem. Thank you so much for taking the time today.
We just wanted to know what you think the biggest issues are in Australia these days.
Oh, okay. No pressure.
Just go. I think one of the biggest problems is probably racism and the stereotypes that are associated with that.
I feel like a lot of people kind of just see from the outside, especially for me, like I grew up in the West and now moving into I guess into the city and into the inner west you can see a whole cultural difference I guess because of the lack of multiculturalism in the city and I guess the high schools that were around here like going in the west we had It was obviously very multicultural and yeah it's just interesting to see people my own age especially and just like the kind of lack of like cultural sensitivity and awareness.
Right. So racism is one of these words I always have trouble understanding because a lot of people use it in a lot of different ways.
So what's your definition? I think it's a contextual thing.
I think it As long as someone is offended by the outcome of something you've said, it's completely valid if they kind of accuse you for being racist or making a racist comment.
Oh, okay, so if I say, like, if I'm offended by something like white privilege, then whoever uses the phrase white privilege is racist?
I would say so.
I mean, like, or even in the context, say, if someone of a particular race isn't present and there's no one, I guess, to out you in that situation, that...
It doesn't mean that it's not...
But people can be offended unreasonably, right?
So how do you know if the offense is reasonable or not?
I mean, that's the problem then.
It's always, like, predisposed.
And also, I'm also concerned...
I'm sorry, it's about me. I'm also concerned that if we say that to be offended is a big problem, then we're kind of giving a big tool to people who pretend to be offended to then cause trouble rather than who are genuinely offended.
I feel like for me, I always would put priority to minority groups, I guess.
Oh, like the whites in South Africa?
Yeah, I guess so. Because they're the minority, right?
Yeah. Do you think that being in the minority gives you kind of a leg up in terms of cries of racism?
In other words, do you think that if you are the majority, you are always racist in a disagreement with a minority?
Always racist? Yeah.
I mean, well, that just comes through you not being able to understand where they're coming from.
So then being the majority, you can't place yourself into what a minority is thinking or what they've been through.
So that again, that would apply in any context as well.
Right. Now, with regards to immigration, would you say that immigration to Australia running about just a little under 200,000 a year, do you think that's too low?
Do you think that's about right? Do you think it should be higher?
I think it should be higher.
Why is that? Well, coming from a family, an immigrant family, and a family where my parents came here fleeing a war.
From where? From Iraq.
Oh, yeah. Okay. Wait, the war?
The 2003 invasion?
Yeah. My sympathies for that, by the way.
So that's what they were fleeing and I can say that my family and extended family contributing to the community here as much as anyone else is, but then people wouldn't really know that.
Like when I talk or converse with my friends they'll be like, "Oh, taken back by that because they think I might be loud and proud about it." But like, "No, we're completely..." But there are a lot of immigrants and refugees who aren't contributing in a net sense to the Australian economy.
I mean, more like that, there'll be many factors for that that apply to, you can even say that for, like, I came from Blacktown, low socioeconomic area, you could say that the white majority as well there weren't contributing to economic status.
Yes, but whites as a whole are net taxpayers in Australia.
You can always find pockets of differences.
Well, let me ask you this, so about 190,000 at the moment, where do you think it should be ideally?
Like, if you were in charge of Australia, you got to set immigration policy, where would you put it?
I mean, we should be looking at different countries.
I think there should be a kind of standard upward.
I'm not really sure about the statistics.
Do you think it should be double or triple where it is now?
Double. So close to 400,000?
Yeah, 300 to 400.
Do you think that 500,000 would be too high?
I don't think it would be too high, but...
What number? I'm just curious.
What number would be too high?
Because, you know, there's only a certain amount of infrastructure and schools and healthcare and dentistry.
Like, what is the number that's too high?
I'm just thinking about the context of people fleeing, like, war right now and how I don't think we've done much to help them.
But even in just our offshore, like, with stuff happening in Manus Island, like, they should be...
I think they should be brought into...
I still need a number, if you don't mind.
What's your top number? We'll go 400, double the amount.
So, anything over 400,000 would be bad?
I don't think it would be bad.
I just think if I was giving a number.
Yeah, that's fine. So, over 10 years, that's 4 million people, right?
Out of a population of 25 million people.
So, you know, you're like 20% over 10 years.
And do you think that should grow with the population, be 500,000, 600,000 year after year?
I think it should reflect what's happening in the world at the moment.
Do you think that other countries, other than white countries, should be required to take in refugees?
Because, you know, Saudi Arabia doesn't, other countries don't.
Why do you think it's only white countries that should take in the refugees?
Because we're coming from a place of privilege.
We've kind of already set that up.
I mean, in terms of Saudi Arabia, So if we were a dictatorship, we wouldn't have to take anyone in.
So being a democracy means that we have to take everyone in.
People want to come here is the thing.
I don't think people want to go to a dictatorship.
Oh no, lots of people want to go to Saudi Arabia.
There are tons of guest workers in Saudi Arabia.
They'd love to stay, but they're not allowed.
So do you think that white countries are more free and desirable for people Because of just privilege?
Or do you think it was fought for and bled for and, you know, we fought against the kings, the aristocrats, the priests, and so on, to try and make a free society?
Do you think it's just random privilege?
Or do you think it was historical will that made the white countries more free and desirable?
I mean, I don't think I have a sense of...
Because if you just say privilege, then all white countries have to take it, everyone around the world, forever.
Now, when whites become a minority in their own country, do you think they'll be well treated?
No, because I don't think that would work anywhere.
So why would whites want to become a minority in their own country?
I don't think anyone wants to become a minority.
But the positions that you...
I'm just giving you the logical...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The positions that you have would result in whites becoming a minority in their own country.
I mean, like... Look how it's working in South Africa, right?
That would be interesting because I'm coming from a minority myself.
You fled being a minority in Iraq, right?
So why would you want... Do you think there would be any sense or reason for whites wanting to become a minority in their own countries?
No, but it would just be interesting for the fact that...
I guess people who will never understand and will never will understand what it's like to be a minority, to come from an innocent family.
But it's bad, right? It's bad.
I don't wish that upon anyone.
But you are wishing it. You are wishing it upon the whites in Australia.
By wanting these huge immigration policies, you are wishing it for the whites in Australia, and you're saying it's a terrible thing to happen.
Well, I just think right now in this political climate, they should have more things.
Who? We should have as a white country with lots of privilege and a democratic nation with...
It's not privilege though, is it?
I mean, white countries were fought for just like all other countries.
Yeah. It's not like God's beam of light came down and just gave these wonderful gifts to white countries.
I mean, we don't really want to go into how Australia was fought for, so...
You do, a little bit, don't you, the aborigines?
Well, now, if you're talking about that, then I don't think that's just at all.
So the aborigines were a minority in their own country when the whites came.
How did that work out for them? Badly.
So if it was bad for the aborigines to be minorities in their own countries and to be harmed, isn't it also bad then for whites to be minorities in their own countries and to be harmed?
Yeah, but it's just not how it's going to work.
It just never will work like that. That's not an answer.
You know that. That's not an argument.
It's just how everything's ever worked.
Well, okay, so let's say that Muslims become a majority in, I mean, with Iraq, right?
Let's say that Muslims become a majority in Australia.
how do you think that's going to work out for the Christians?
See, it's such a hot debate They have to send the fire engine.
Okay, so in that I would say if you go to a nation where it's a Christian majority, what are the implications of that?
You mean for Muslims? Muslims are allowed to practice their religion in Christian majority countries.
Are Christians allowed to practice their religion in Muslim majority countries?
In other words, lots of mosques are being built in Europe.
Do you think a lot of churches are being built in Saudi Arabia?
No, I don't think there's a Christian majority there.
I know. So what that means is that if you have a Christian majority, you can have a mosque.
But if you have a Muslim majority, oftentimes you can't have a church.
So if Muslims become a majority in Australia, what's going to happen to the Christians, do you think?
And why would they want that?
Well, I honestly think nothing would change.
You think nothing would change?
Yes. So you don't think Muslims want to impose Sharia law in countries where they become majorities?
I don't think that. Do you have any example of a country in history where Muslims gained a majority where they didn't impose Sharia law?
I'm just going over my personal experiences and personal relationships with others.
Alright. Well, I really, really appreciate your time.
Thank you so much. It was a great chat.
No worries. Thank you. Well, thanks so much for taking the time.
So you were watching an interview I did earlier, and I think I may have got a little bit of dagger look.
What do you call it in Australia when you're like, looks could kill?
The stare of a magpie.
The stare of the magpie.
Alright. Do you want to give me one?
Like, what are you looking at me as?
Oh, okay. That's chilling. Alright.
So what is it that you didn't like about what I was saying?
Are you talking about whites being a minority in Australia?
It's obvious. We're colonizers.
But does that mean numerically you can't become a minority?
I just don't see the world that way.
I don't see myself as a minority because I'm not solely white.
I'm a person. I come from the love tribe of the world.
You come from the love tribe of the world?
Yes! Do you think that's a majority tribe or a minority tribe these days?
I don't see a distinction. Right.
So do you think that immigration should be as much as Australia could possibly handle?
Like, there's billions of people who want to live in Australia, right?
Immigration is, like, the most complex thing.
It is and it isn't. There is plenty of land in Australia.
Yes, okay. But there's infrastructure too, right?
Because most of the people who immigrate to Australia want to live in the cities, right?
Which means less... Not necessarily.
I know, the majority of them do want to live in the cities.
Like, they don't come from India to go live in the outback, right?
There's enough people in the world needing a place to live for people to start to build their own new towns again.
Everyone just wants a new town feeling, don't they?
And we live in a new town.
They just want the new town.
Now, let me ask you this, though.
So right now, about 190,000 people coming into Australia every year.
Do you think that's too low?
Look, you're just asking me questions about immigration to do with, like...
I guess your angle is that there's too...
Don't try to read my mind.
Just tell me what you think. Should it be higher than $290,000?
Should it be lower? Is that about right?
Australia should be wide open to whoever needs to escape.
Difficult conditions that they're living in to come to a country that's kind of free.
All right, so would you say a million, two million a year?
I'm not going to get numbers. I'm just saying...
But more. Now, what if those people came from Muslim countries?
What if they were majority Muslims or they were Muslims?
Do you think that that would be any challenge for you?
I'm not getting, like, there is no challenge.
It's diversity, biodiversity.
Biodiversity? Do you think that Islamic law or Islamic practices would have any challenge for your lifestyle?
No. You don't think that Muslims have any problem with your lifestyle?
