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Nov. 14, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
42:53
3896 Poland: Nationalism Rising | Tommy Robinson and Stefan Molyneux
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Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Freedomain Radio, back with our good friend Tommy Robinson.
He's the founder and ex-leader of the English Defense League, the author of the best-selling books, Enemy of the State and Mohammed's Koran, and the host of the Tommy Robinson Show on Rebel Media.
The website is tommy2msrobinson1b.com and twitter.com forward slash t robinson new era.
We'll put the links to all of that below.
Tommy, thanks so much for taking the time today.
No, it's a pleasure. So Poland.
Poland, Poland, Poland. Interesting because, I mean, I grew up in London.
And to me, Eastern Europe was kind of off the grid as far as sort of my memories of growing up because, of course, it was under USSR control.
So it was kind of like... Soviet, communist-dominated, handed over, tragically, at the end of the Second World War to, you know, the murderous Stalin.
So it was kind of off the grid as far as Europe went.
And it's so weird, I've got to tell you, now I've lived long enough to see things kind of flipped, where in the past, Poland seemed more communist than European.
And now it's weird because Poland seems far more European than Western Europe in terms of cultural pride and history and standing for the nation-state.
It's a strange timeline to be in, man.
I've never... I've been to Poland, I've been to the Czech Republic, and even East Germany.
And what you gather when you go there and you talk to their people is they understand what it's like to live without freedom.
They understand whether it be from their generation above or even in East Germany, the elders in the generation.
When I spoke in East Germany, they talk about, before the wall come down, They talk about what's happening now with Islam.
They've been through this.
You can't talk about it.
Communism. You can't speak about it.
It's communism. You lose your job.
Everyone's scared. Everyone's walking around scared.
He goes, we've lived through this, we've seen this, and we got over it.
And then the same in Poland.
What I sense from Poland was I wasn't that aware of their history.
I went through their history during this trip, heard their history, and the country disappeared for over 100 years.
It disappeared. There was no Poland.
So they understand what it's like to struggle for their identity.
I think in 1944, the biggest civil uprising in the history of the world come in Warsaw, where 250,000 Poles died fighting against Nazis.
All of this. And then this is only something very recent, that they've really show their pride.
And really, they said that it was like the lost people, the men that fought a civil war Against communism had been completely forgotten.
All these men, until they got rid of their Liberal government, and then until the people demanded that these men were remembered, that they could celebrate their history.
And that's what we're seeing now.
It's a remarkable thing because, of course, when I was growing up, I felt enormous pity and sorrow regarding Eastern Europe.
You know, the Poland, of course, was the country that England, Great Britain, entered the war in 1939 in order to save.
And then it got handed over, as I mentioned, to a communist dictatorship.
And so when I was growing up, it was like, oh, how terrible, how terrible it must be to be behind the Iron Curtain.
And it's so strange, Tommy, to think...
That decade after decade under brutal communist dictatorship rule has proven the strongest inoculation against creeping communism, against liberalism, against leftism that can conceivably be imagined.
And it is really like this very biblical cycle that those who will last shall now become first.
It is. It is.
And even I interviewed a Polish MP whilst I was there.
And he's from Law& Order, from their main political party.
Dominic. And he spoke about, when I asked him about the communists, I said, because I also went to the Antifa demonstration.
I interviewed the Antifa demonstrators on their demonstration.
I asked them whether they want refugees.
Yes. How many? 20 million, one of them said.
20 million. Bring them all in, yeah?
So then I asked him how it felt as a country to see people demanding communism again.
Bearing in mind, here in the history, when the communists come in, they took a list of all the most educated.
They rounded up all the university professors in a big meeting, and they killed them all.
And they killed them all. And they had the elites.
And they went round, and anyone educated, they took out.
So here in the story, and then I asked him, and he said, my granddad fought and killed communists.
And as an MP, I wouldn't want to say to you what I feel.
That's what he done. And to see an MP, I laughed my head off.
And he said, I laughed my head off.
But he said, yeah, we understand.
And we want rid of the communists.
But then to put this in a scale, on the Antifa demonstration, there was 3,000 people.
They were bused in from Germany.
On the Polish independence rally, there was well over 100,000.
When the BBC say 60,000, you know you can double that.
You know you can double that. It was a sight to see, and it was something for me as an Englishman.
I come back disheartened because we haven't got what they've got.
We haven't struggled or had to fight our generation or generation.
We don't know.
We don't show the pride that they show.
And it was so good to watch, but it was gutting to know How far away we are from that.
How weak we are as a people.
And one Polish man I interviewed, and you'll see it.
One Polish man I interviewed said, when he come to England, he said, your elder British generation I have a lot of respect for.
He said, your new generation, they're lost.
And he took that from living in England.
He said they're lost. And he's right.
They are lost. They don't know who they are.
They don't know where they've come from. They don't know where they're going.
They're not allowed to show pride.
But also hearing the story from Poland about how quickly this changed as well in their country, how quickly it went from not being allowed to show pride and coming under attack by the Liberal government, the police force trying to crush them, to now the government celebrating and the government supporting their independence rally.
And yeah, it was an interesting trip.
Well, there is this horrible stripping of history and stripping of pride and stripping of, you know, if a tree has no roots, Anything can push it over.
You lean up against that thing, it's going to fall over.
Now, of course, every history is complicated.
There's good and there's bad, just as there is in most people's lives.
There's good and there's bad, and there's a struggling towards the light.
And the only history that's allowed to Europeans, the native Europeans these days, is the negative history, the history of colonialism and support of the slave trade and exploitation and so on, even though, of course, it was white people.
Western European Christians who ended the barbaric and eternal slave trade that had characterized most of human history.
And so, when you don't have anything to be proud of in your history, then your ancestors sacrificed themselves for nothing.
There's nothing to defend, and it means that because you are self-loathing, anybody who's assertive, even if they're wrong, can walk all over you.
That's it. For Western Europe, that's what we're seeing.
That's why East Germany is so different to West Germany.
I've travelled to both.
It's like a different country.
And they don't suffer the same level of guilt or self-hate that the West of Germany do.
They're not willing to just destroy their culture and their country.
And that's why the AFD has done so well in the East of Germany in comparison to the West of Germany.
And that's why Yeah, I don't know.
I stood there and I'll tell you, I looked around and the passion and the pride.
I've never seen anything like it.
I've never seen anything like it.
And it was just so immense to see.
And I had them say, I had Polish people who recognised me and they said, do you feel that?
I said, he goes, the power.
And it was power.
It was looking and thinking this country.
And I said it. They are never, ever, Islam is never going to get a route in Poland.
They are never going to be able to do what they've done to Western Europe in Hungary, in Poland, in these countries that still identify.
And when I interviewed the MP, it shouldn't feel great to hear an MP speaking common sense.
But it did. I sat there thinking, wow, wow, wow.
But I shouldn't feel that because all he was saying was, he said, we're not going to let refugees into our country.
We are not going to endanger our country's people.
And he goes, that is 100% never going to happen.
We're never going to let them in.
And he goes, we don't want bombs.
We don't want people getting killed.
And it's just all common sense.
But to hear it and to hear what he had to say about the British government, I asked him about the British government and their views on the UK. And I asked Polish people as well, what do you think of the UK? And they just can't...
They're all just shocked by what we're allowing.
And as I said, I looked at the scenes and I think I said in my video, could you imagine this in Britain?
Could you imagine this in Germany or France?
This is just... Statistically though, Tommy, let's just run through a couple of numbers.
Number of terrorist attacks in the UK over the last little while.
Number of terrorist attacks in Poland over the past few decades.
Yeah. Four in the last four months in the UK. None in Poland.
Zero. None in Czech Republic.
None in Hungary.
None. And what I said to the Polish MP, which was quite funny, I said, OK, so you're never going to take them in.
You're forced quoted to take.
You're not going to take. But the EU said they'll take away Poland's voting rights.
And he just laughed and said, Poland, Hungary, now Austria.
What you're seeing is a formation because the Austria now of the new elected government.
He said, it's not just us.
They can't do that anymore.
He said, we need to stop looking up to the EU as something...
Above us, because it is us.
He said, Slovakia, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Austria, all these countries are together now.
He goes, it's now Germany and France who are on their own.
He goes, and it's only going to push further that way.
He goes, and I think he said that when Macron got in, he said, we're looking forward to changing or to reforming the EU with Germany.
And that's, he said, that's the problem with Germany.
He goes, it's not with Germany, because we are in the EU. And we are equal partners in that EU. So that, yeah, it was an interesting discussion.
And one of the things he said to me, he said, Tommy, I welcome you to come live in Poland with us.
He said, because I'm witnessing what's happening at home.
And it actually, do you know what?
It actually, I said to the people I traveled with, do you know what?
I didn't have to look over my shoulders once there.
It's the lowest rate rates there.
It's the lowest crime rate there.
The problems that we foresee, the problems I see daily in my life, They're not there.
The drug problem, there's no drug.
Not like our country.
It's nothing. So, as you said, if you look at a country that used to be less than us, and then I end up looking at it and thinking, I think a lot of us will be moving to those, a lot of people will want to be moving to those countries as another decade goes on in Europe.
And I asked him again, I asked him, I said, the Polish at the gates of Vienna, 1683, September 11th, I think it was 20,000 horses.
I forget what they were called, but they had something on the back of the horses where the wind took it.
I said, Europe would have been taken over forever.
Christendom would have been destroyed.
Christianity would have been destroyed if it wasn't for the Polish fighters.
And I asked him again, I said, when this struggle comes in Europe, where will Poland be?
And the MP said, we'll be fighting.
And there's no doubt, you know, after meeting them, there is no doubt in my mind.
That their whole country would fight to protect Europe.
Can you say that about Britain?
No, I can't. Caving to destroy Europe might be another way of putting it for England.
And I remember, of course, growing up, the Polish...
Air fighters in the RAF, in the Second World War, were astonishingly competent fighters.
And one of the reasons why England was able to prevail in the summer of 1940.
And the Polish fighters were notoriously, you know, tough-minded and courageous, but not foolhardy.
And it is astonishing to think as well how it was in the 1960s.
This is sort of going back to Enoch Powell's famous speech.
It was in the 1960s that the floodgates to third world immigration really opened in many countries in the West, in America, of course, in the 1965 immigration bill, in England and other places.
And of course, none of that could have happened in Eastern Europe because it was still under communist rule.
And again, it's one of these strange things where these countries that I looked at as, oh, what a terrible and awful and thank goodness I live in the free West and how terrible.
And yet, if you look at the arc and the trajectory, I'm just going to tell you, man, history is a very, very complicated thing that's hard to judge.
Because now they've benefited so much for that.
Yeah. Who would have ever imagined that a country could have thanks for communism in terms of shocking people into a sense of pride and appreciation of freedom?
And that's what they have.
That's what they have as I looked at them.
I thought they have, from young to old, a huge pride in being Polish.
A huge love of their country and their history.
And their main thing is making sure that all the people that went before them, that fought communism, that fought the Nazis, that they're remembered and that they'll fight on.
That's what it was mainly about.
And then, obviously, you've seen the media play of this.
60,000 Nazis.
All of these comments.
I keep hearing about comments about a Jew free Poland were chanted.
I've not seen one video of them chanting it.
Every video on every one of their articles, the mainstream media, every video on every one of their articles, I've sent to a Polish friend who invited me to translate to see if they're saying anything they shouldn't be saying.
Not once have they said anything they shouldn't be saying.
Now, in well over 100,000 people, of course there would be some unsavory characters in amongst that 100,000 people.
It's like you go in the Man United football stadium, there's some racists or probably some neo-Nazis in amongst that 100,000 people.
And we don't even know if they're put in there by some opposition force.
Like, is it a bunch of antifas who are shaving their heads and dressing up as Nazis?
I mean, there's no way to know without any kind of investigation.
And there's not. All I can say is that I spent the time there.
I walked from one end of that demonstration.
I stood for 50 minutes.
50 minutes as a double whipthrode, massive double whipthrode, as people marched.
So I stood still to watch and film every group to speak to them.
I saw anti-abortion banners.
No one said it was an anti-abortion march.
I saw so many different banners about so many different things.
I didn't see anything about Jews or hear anything about Jews.
And what I see is a mass attack on Poland.
They've elected a right-wing government in 2015, who are now staunch in their stand against the EU dictatorship.
And I see this as a complete attack on Poland.
I see it as an attack to slander their good people.
And yeah, I'm yet to see any evidence And as I said, I spent my time there.
I was there.
These other journalists, I had a journalist ring me up today from the programme.
I said, was you there?
He said, no. So the reporter that you're going off, was he there?
No. So you're going off word of mouth, and then you're running massive headlines, calling it an anti-Jew march, an anti-Semitic march.
You're running all of these stories, and none of you were there.
You're all going off word of mouth because it suits your agenda to destroy the reputation of these people and their country and their government.
Well, I think it's fairly clear that whites are the only ethnicity not allowed to have any pride.
I mean, that's one of these great tragedies.
And it is the great lie of diversity.
If diversity is to work, then every group must be allowed to have its own pride, its own history, its own complexities, its positives and its negatives in its evolution.
And if, of course, we have racial identity politics and endless screams of racism, then diversity can't work.
It's like you want diversity, you have to give up the racist word.
I mean, unless it's really clear, you know, somebody is just a really horrible human being in a peaked white hat or something like that.
But if diversity is to work, we can't be pulling out the racial cannon and firing it indiscriminately.
And this is, I think, something that people really need to understand because then what people are gonna do is they're gonna look at a place like Poland and say, okay, so the people in Poland, they live without fear of being called racist all the time.
They live with the capacity for pride in their own history and people are gonna start yearning for that.
And then they're gonna yearn to recreate it in their home countries And that is going to cause a lot of problems, which is probably why any kind of in-group preference among whites is immediate Nazism.
And by the by, sorry to ramble on a little bit, by the by, it is an unbelievably egregious insult to call Polish people In any way affiliated with Nazism in a way that you have to be historically ignorant to the equivalent of a soap dish to not now.
That's not that far from calling a Jew a Nazi because the Nazis slaughtered.
I mean, the whole Second World War, as we said, invasion of Poland triggered it off.
The Nazis slaughtered Poles by the hundreds of thousands.
Poles spent hundreds of thousands of lives fighting off Nazism.
So to call Polish people Nazis is an egregious insult which words can scarcely encapsulate.
It's unbelievable. And even, you know, one of the things they said that they were chanting for was pure Poland.
One of the banners said pure Poland.
Jack, am I right?
I interviewed the organiser of the demonstration.
He said pure Poland meant drug-free, alcohol-free.
I believe that when I asked the organiser, pure Poland, what does it mean?
He said that we don't want drugs.
We don't want abortions.
And all the things he listed was nothing like the way it's being portrayed in In our country.
And yeah, and you're so right on the gathering from the history and spending time with Polish people there for the weekend.
To call them Nazis is outrageous.
And it's exactly what, and it's just like, when the mainstream media do this, when the mainstream media do this, they just are, again, cementing in the public's eyes their agenda, their narrative they use, and Whether you call it fake news or whatever, it is fake news. It's completely...
You could have gone to that demonstration and there was 100 or 200 banners with Jesus Christ on them.
The march was called, We March for God.
We what? We want God.
The march was called, We Want God.
But no mention of this by any of our media.
Our media just called it anti-Semitic march, racist march, fascist march.
No mention, and if you watch, Stefan, the video that we've done for my show, I actually ask that.
I go on the Antifa march where they're all balaclavas, they're all masked up.
All of them have got balaclavas on.
They all try to attack me.
They all come around surrounding me once they realise who I was.
And I think I said to them, you're fascist and you're exclusively white.
Your whole group here is exclusively white.
There's not one non-white person amongst you.
But as that's going on, and they're all calling us fascists, so I went from that to then the other march and then said, you tell me.
You've just seen both.
You tell me who the good guys are.
Look at this. People with their children on their shoulders, their families, people dressed up, a complete calm atmosphere.
There may have been flares, but it was very calm.
Not one bit of trouble, not one arrest from well over 100,000.
I'd put it at probably double that.
If you saw how many people were there.
But then the media portrayal in this country, you'd think loads of neo-Nazis just marched through Poland, calling out for racism and the execution of everyone that's not white.
It's so far wrong from what happened on that day.
And it's an absolute disgrace and a disservice to the Polish people that they've been treated that way by our media, our politicians who are commenting on it, our journalists.
It's just, yeah.
Oh, it's astonishing to me that the largely left-wing press in the West had nothing but praise in the 1930s for Russia.
When it was communist, a bloody dictatorship, when it was starving to death millions of people in Ukraine and other places, when it was a murderous gulag-infested predatory dictatorship, they were out there defending it and saying how wonderful it was, and it was the future, and They have these Potemkin villages that Walter Durante of the New York Times rolls around and said how wonderful it was.
They got a Pulitzer for it, which they've never sent back.
So they loved Russia back in the day when it was a communist dictatorship.
Now that Russia and Eastern Europe are Christian, are nationalistic, have pride in their history and so on, they have just become the absolute enemy, which I think reveals a lot more about the press than they want to.
I agree. Am I right that Putin's built free churches a day?
In the amount of churches he's been in.
And that's it. And they're all under attack.
They're all under attack from our media, from our campaigns.
But I think that what I see developing is that Eastern Europe will be, instead of them looking to us, we're looking to them.
And our country's people, our country's people, now because of online, we're looking.
And I've read all the comments underneath people commenting about what they're witnessing over there.
And people are saying, people are feeling, I don't know, feeling gutted, feeling weaker.
We are weaker.
It's not feeling weaker.
We are weaker.
Our men are weaker.
We have bred a generation of cowards.
But when that turns, which I see it turning, and when people cry for that patriotism and cry for that feeling of pride, then, yeah, you're right.
I can see mass destruction.
Climation's got mass problems.
It's not a real relationship if one party is giving way all the time.
That's just appeasement. That's not diversity when one person, when one group has to give in all the other time and all the other times the other groups win hands down.
That's not diversity. That's not sustainable.
And can you imagine, Tommy, imagine, give me an image here, a visual image here of what it would be like if you had been able to magically transport this party.
Gathering this march, this celebration of history and culture from Poland and put it into Luton or into London.
What do you think would have occurred?
There'd have been a war. Yeah.
And we know that. You couldn't have marched through our towns like that without mass opposition coming from the Islamic community.
And not just the Islamic community, but the left heavily attacking it.
If you look at the Football Lads Alliance gathering in London last month, which again, I had a lot of Polish people commenting to me and trying to understand.
They're saying, like, even your football hooligans won't fly your flag.
Like, they can't understand it.
They said, even your football groups won't celebrate English.
And they couldn't understand it.
And unfortunately, that's where we're at.
That's where we're at in the UK. And they said, why don't they show their flag?
I said, well, I believe the reason is they don't want to be pigeonholed, stereotyped and put into a box.
But they're like, who cares?
Who cares what people say?
It was completely alien to them to try to understand the level of political correctness we're under in the UK. And I think if 100,000 people march in a In the celebrationary scenes that they did in Poland through any city in the UK, the politics... No, no. In fact, forget what I'm saying.
They wouldn't let you. It just wouldn't be allowed.
And do you know what? When I heard the Polish story, they started with...
I thought it was 200. They started with 2,000 people.
They tried to march in the year 2008 or 7.
2008. They tried to march.
Antifa attacked them. The government sent the police to stop them.
And then the next year, 5,000 come.
The next year, 12,000 come.
Now, when they show, which we're putting together videos now, the police brutalized them.
They smashed the hell out of them.
This was the Liberal government trying to squash what was happening.
And it didn't work.
The Polish people come out again.
But next year, 50,000.
And then when they changed their government, and now they've said, now that they have a government that's not trying to attack them or trying to cause problems with the police and instigating violence, there's not one bit of trouble.
No trouble. No trouble at all.
And if they put the police in there, they police themselves.
What's it called? The Guard of Honour.
They set an organisation up called the Guard of Honour.
And guess what the media say? The media say they're paramilitaries.
They're just volunteers that come together to police their own organisation.
Well, after a history of how the police treat certain groups who gather together to celebrate their heritage, it's not that surprising that people would prefer self-policing to risking it with the state cops, particularly in history in Poland and in the West as a whole in the present.
So, I mean, I go to conferences and I meet friends from time to time, and it's really...
Great. You know, it's great to sit down and chat with people to exchange ideas without the sort of somewhat caution and jumpiness that comes from where do people stand and what's the blowback going to be and who's, you know what I mean.
And what was, is this the first time that you've been in an environment where what is radical and dangerous at home is common sense and accepted in your current environment?
And what's it like going there and then coming back?
It's the first time.
I was completely accepted by the politician, even the politician who's part of their main government.
That group are part of the same European group as our Conservative Party.
He even tweeted yesterday saying, Oh, I now understand in the UK you call Patriots Nazis.
Because it was all about me.
And he was so upfront.
He was so upfront. He said, Tommy, I invite you to live with us in Poland.
He's their MP. Also, the people who invited me, if I speak about the fact I was invited by this young man I met in London, a Polish man I met here, 24 years old.
And I didn't quite understand...
When I met him, I knew he went to a private school, but when I was invited to his home, I understood that they were what we'd call in the UK, the upper class of society.
Everyone in the room.
So when I arrived there, I arrived to where they said, will I do a Q&A? When I went there, I thought it was to him and a couple of his mates.
When I got there, this apartment was like It was next to Parliament, it was a multi-million pound apartment, and I sat there and all the people there, if it was in the UK, would not be seen dead with me.
Whether they were surgeons, massive business owners, one of the men there, his father was good friends with Donald Trump, he went to school with Donald Trump's son.
They were all of the high-end society in Poland, but they all Spoke shared common sense views on what's happening.
But the problem is in the UK, I feel people at their level of society would look down their nose completely at me with the working class background, whereas I didn't feel that at all.
I felt completely welcomed.
In fact, I'd say one of the nicest families I've ever met, how welcoming they were, which I've never felt.
And then to speak to everyone, journalists, and I interviewed so many different people there.
They all just thought common sense, which is common sense, but over here, that's so rare.
Over here, the minute anyone says anything, it's shouted down, or you can't say that, and it's Islamophobic.
Over there, there's none of that.
And it was so...
It was depressing to come back here.
It was depressing to land at Stansted Airport, get pulled in for an hour by Muslim security and grilled, and thinking, I've just...
Where am I stepping back into?
It's like I look at this and think we've already lost parts of our country and I admire now and have a newfound love for Poland and the Polish people.
It's disheartening. That's what it is.
It's disheartening to come home. It is, you know, when you are in an environment where you can be relaxed and conversant and where ideas can be shared and discussed without fear of, like, ridiculous levels of escalation.
You can have disagreements with people and you just, oh, okay, that's interesting.
Let me look that up. Or, you know, you can have disagreements without this, I don't know, this like weird calling in massive airstrikes of social disapproval and legal threats and like madness and destroy your reputation and try and get you fired without this insane hysteria.
It just reminds me what a wonderful world it can be.
If we talk about facts and reason and evidence without this panic and this hysteria and this hatred and this fear, which shuts down discourse, which I guess is kind of the point.
But, you know, there are the times you get into these situations in life where it's like, oh, ah, this is what it would be like to live in a world of civilized discourse.
And it is really tough to leave.
I went home and said to my wife, I went home and said like, Do you know what happened?
So there was someone from the far left demonstration, Antifa demonstration, who put tweets about me being there.
So I messaged him back on Twitter.
He said, he said, do you want to meet up?
Yeah. So this is Antifa.
This is their version of the fire.
So I said, yeah, sound.
He said, where are you? So we was in a pizza restaurant.
This is Saturday night. And he turned up with three other supporters from the far left.
They sat down at a table with us and we talked.
I said, if this was in England, he'd have turned up with 20 men with masks on.
And as I was sitting there, I said to the Polish lads, I've just told them where we are.
What's happened there? Are you there, Stefan?
Yeah, we're still on. I said, I've just told them where we are.
I said, get ready, because either he's going to come in and chat, or up those stairs there, 30 men wearing balaclavas are going to come flying up to attack us.
Now, I was waiting then, but...
They come in, they sat down, they had a drink with us.
They talked to us about why they were against the rally, or some of the groups within the rally, they said.
And I talked to them about the problems we have in the UK. Civil, normal discussion.
You can't have that in the UK. You would not get that.
What you'd get is, we don't talk to fascists.
We don't talk to fascists.
And that's their way out of ever having to debate or discuss anything.
And I've not met anyone I actually shook the man's hand and said, in eight years of doing this, not once has anyone on your side of the political sphere in the UK ever just had a civil discussion with me the way yous have.
And we completely disagree on our politics, on everything.
But there was no animosity.
Do you know what? He shook my hand and the next day I went to, next day we went to It was Remembrance Sunday.
There was a scene where British planes crashed and the lad survived in Warsaw.
So we went to pay our respects there.
When I went to pay our respects there, he was there.
He was there. So it's just so different.
And you're right. It is one of those moments where you think, this is how it could be.
This is how it should be. But the attack, you realise then how deep It is the attack on free speech, the not being able to talk about it, the fear and the threats is the major part.
It's not the feeling of the emotion, because I think the British people feel the same as the Polish people.
I think the British people underneath feel it, but they're too scared to show.
They're too scared and too weak.
Well, I mean, you can have free speech on paper, but not in reality.
And I think this is where most people have to say, well, you know, there's something on paper which says I have free speech.
But given the blowback that can occur to me in my life, my professional life, my personal life, and so on, I really don't have a lot of free speech.
And that self-policing is how you get rid of free speech.
It's sort of like you can ban things that no one's using anyway.
You know, like, oh no, they've banned the horse and carriage.
Well, you know, I don't really use a horse and carriage, so you have to get people to withdraw from speaking openly, from debating, from bringing controversial topics, ideas, facts and data to the public discourse.
You get people to back off that, and then when you start whittling away at their free speech legally, it's less important to them because they've already given it up in practice.
He, and exactly that, you know, so the lad who invited me, the Polish lad who invited me, who's a very, from a From a very good background, I messaged him earlier, and I said a lot of people were questioning, a lot of the journalists were questioning who invited me, question mark.
He messaged back, I don't understand what you mean.
I am in no way, and I am in no way ashamed.
Let me read you what he said, because when I read it, I thought, I didn't want to drop him in it, because I thought, he's going to get a hard time for being associated with me.
So I said to him, Yep.
Thanks again. I had Victoria Derbyshire call me earlier.
A lot of them are asking me who invited me over.
What do you mean? You're welcome to put them in touch with me if that's what you mean.
I don't mind the association with you in any way, shape or form.
Now, no one in this country, you know an MP in this country, if I stood next to them, they'd run.
They'd let it. I actually think they'd run away.
I actually think they'd run away.
And that's not run away because they don't agree with what I'm saying.
It's run away because of the pressure and the backlash that will come with being associated with me, which is why the opposite side, which is why the left are winning in this debate battle because you're not allowed to have the debate because no one will talk to you or no one will show any...
Do you know what? If a camera's put there, whenever I go on talk shows, Stefan, whenever I go on talk shows on the media, away from the cameras, they are all shaking my hand, trust me, yeah?
All of them. And even when I went on the Piers Morgan show, when I come out afterwards, my friend said, I can't believe it.
He said, what? He said, the green room of all the staff in here were all cheering you, supporting you, watching you.
And I said, but then put a camera in their face and they're off.
Get them to stand next to me and shake my hand, not a chance.
And I have even that from people on our side, in our politics, who are at a higher level.
And it's because of the backlash.
So to see that they don't have that in Poland is, I don't know, I come back wanting to re-energise, but at the same time, we're so far away from being where we need to be.
And so what is that like?
We're so far away from freedom.
We're so far away from freedom.
Yeah.
No, and this, of course, looking at the data, looking at the demographics, looking at the great replacement and so on, it is hard if you're basically mathematically illiterate to feel particularly optimistic.
And I still think that there are cultures that can live together, but not when one is rolling over the other.
Like, that is not coexistence.
That is not mutual enrichment, for want of a better phrase.
But the idea, you know, that in England you could stand there and cheer for England and wave a flag and feel that that may be dangerous is truly an unprecedented phenomenon, I think, in human history.
I know. I know.
And that is, unfortunately, it's depressing.
And you know, going out there and seeing it and then coming back here.
It's just, I don't know.
What they need out there, of course, is a nice state-regulated, state-funding broadcaster.
You know, they need to reach into the pocket of the people and pull their money out by force and fill the coffers of left-wing activists and agitators in order to smear everyone who disagrees with them.
That, you know, that's the path, I think, for true freedom to Poland, because that gives them a nice objective media that's open to reason and evidence.
I need a BBC. Yeah, that'd be great.
No, when I look at the BBC and other leftist outlets, and they estimate crowd sizes of, say, white gatherings, I sort of view it, you know, when you ask a girl how many boys she slept with, how many men she slept with, you know, the rule of thumb is you just double it.
So that's my estimate when I look at the BBC and crowd gatherings in Eastern Europe.
I just assume, you know, just double it because, you know, they're just, they're trying to look demure, but they're really not that demure.
Although, do you know if I said one word, like, next year is their 100-year anniversary of their independence in Poland?
Go, Stefan. It is such an experience.
I'll be there next year.
And I think a lot of British journalists may be there this year, because none of them were there this year.
But I think a lot may be there next year after, just simply because I went, and they all want to attack me and hammer me.
That's simply it. But yeah, I think that we know the problem's going to get a lot worse in Europe.
We know, the way I describe it is like what we've witnessed over the last 12 months, say, is like a trailer for a movie.
We're still only watching the trailer.
They've not even started.
Now, when they do start, I think that Eastern Europe, which it's not like they were already playing a pivotal role.
We've stopped in the refugee crisis, Hungary, and now the Czech Republic and Poland and these countries are, I see us looking to them.
Look into them and the more they say, the more open they are, the more it will give us the feeling that we can say and we can talk.
And hopefully it will give our politicians, that inspire our politicians to know.
It's like what they said, when you have that many people marching, the MP said, when you have that many people marching, you know the people are behind you.
You know you can say whatever. You know you can speak about it.
You know you were voted in to do that.
In our country, they're still all on the fence because they lose their jobs.
But I think, yeah, I don't know.
I think that there's going to be a big change in the coming years.
It would be really excellent if...
A civilization could develop that didn't have to suffer to gain wisdom and to gain basic truths and facts about ideologies and human nature.
It would be absolutely wonderful.
And those of us, of course, who've been trying to bring reason, wisdom, and evidence to the public discourse for, in your case, what was it, 2004?
You first popped out before going back in hibernation for four years or so.
But those of us who are out there, it's like, well, we know the challenges that are coming.
It's very clear. It's not complicated.
It's not. I mean, the evidence is all very clear.
And it would just be really nice to have a culture and a civilization that listened to people who had common sense and intelligent and data-backed things to say, rather than stumbling into the inevitable fiery pit of massive suffering before listening to people.
And maybe at some point, you know, maybe with the new internet and maybe after this round, it'll be possible.
That's what I'm hoping out for.
But right now, I don't see it being as peaceful as I'd like.
Oh, so... I went to East Germany three weeks ago for their three-year anniversary of Pegida.
I've been there for the first year, second year.
I watched the fear in the German people's eyes, the fear they had of what was happening to their country.
This last time I went, that fear didn't seem the same.
It seemed more like a celebration.
It was a celebration, which this would be unheard of.
At their demonstration for their three-year anniversary, six AFD MPs spoke.
Go back 12 months at their two-year anniversary.
They were getting slaughtered by the whole political class.
No one supported them.
So to then go and see them welcoming, and those MPs, the same again.
They all embraced me. They all embraced me.
They stood there openly.
So what we've seen in Germany in the election of 96 AFD MPs is a new politics with new people, fresh, fresh and open.
Open and honest.
And the speeches they gave and the people they shared the platform with would be unthinkable in Britain.
But it would also have been unthinkable 12 months ago in Germany.
Well, I certainly guarantee you I'll be in Poland next year.
If you're there, we'll meet up and have a drink.
I really appreciate your time today, Tommy.
Wanted to mention Tommy's subscription page.
Please, please check it out at TommyRobinson.com forward slash...
Watch, of course, on Twitter, twitter.com forward slash T Robinson, New Era.
And please check out Enemy of the State and Mohammed's Koran, which you can find at TommyRobinson.com.
Thanks so much for your time today.
And thank you for bringing all of this amazing information back from Eastern Europe.
Thank you, Stefan. And that's it.
Anyone who subscribes, they get to tour Europe with us anywhere we go.
That's right. We'll see it all.
Thank you, Stefan. All right.
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