3847 Broken America | Gavin McInnes and Stefan Molyneux
What will be the end result of the continuing political tensions in the United States of America? Gavin McInnes joins Stefan Molyneux to discuss escalating political violence, opposition to freedom of speech, cracks in the foundation of western civilization, the importance of marriage and the necessity of having children. Gavin McInnes was an original co-founder of VICE Media and is the host of Get Off My Lawn on CRTV.Website: http://www.crtv.comTwitter: http://www.twitter.com/Gavin_McInnesYour support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
He was an original co-founder of Vice Media and the host of Get Off My Lawn, which I assume comes with four exclamation marks at the end, on CRTV. The website is CRTV.com, and you can follow Gavin on Twitter.com forward slash Gavin Underbar McInnes.
That's M-C-I-N-N-E-S. Gavin, thanks for taking the time today.
Thanks for having me, Stefan.
So, the left and humanization and dialogue.
You know, it's kind of frustrating for me because I grew up, the left had some really good things to say about, like, imperialism, anti-war, and free speech, and so I kind of grew up thinking, well, the left has some interesting things to say, the right has some interesting things to say, but the left of my middle age is not the left of my youth, and this...
This continued opposition to dialogue, this continued dehumanization and demonization of people who disagree seems to be escalating.
And if I know anything about history, it's that this kind of escalation tends to lead to a very, very bad place.
Where do you think things are in this, I guess, form of dialogue at the moment?
Civil war, riots on the streets.
These people are insatiable.
They're exactly like ISIS. The far left and ISIS have merged, and they're both Totally irrational.
After Charlottesville, there was this assumption from the left to the right, towards the right, that said, okay, you guys are all racist.
You all carry tiki torches.
You all killed Heather Heyer.
And I would feel that walking down the street in New York City, this sort of stigma.
And then I thought, oh, a bunch of country music fans have been shot.
Now the narrative is going to switch and it's going to be, oh, that's one of those poor bastards that was assassinated for being a Trump fan.
I thought it would have changed, but no.
They blame the GOP for this Vegas thing.
That was bad gun laws.
So you realize that no matter what happens, you can get shot, you can get killed.
It's always the right's fault in their mind.
It is an odd thing to me because the guy behind the wheel in Charlottesville was, as far as I understand it, an actual diagnosed schizophrenic.
And yet he is somehow completely morally culpable, as is anyone who's ever questioned any policy of the left.
On the other hand, you know, when people who seem to have very strong ideological or religious motives go on attacks...
Suddenly, the mental illness card comes out, and it really feels like you're trying to win against a heavily stacked deck, to put it mildly.
Totally. I mean, it's so frustrating.
It's like talking to someone in a cult.
You know those cults where they say when doomsday will be, and it's going to be October 2nd, and then October 3rd rolls around, and you go, well, that's the end of your cult, and then they have more members.
And there was a study done a few years ago that said that when people are confronted with data that contradicts their beliefs, They become more steadfast in those beliefs.
And I think this is especially true of the left.
They just seem unshakable.
Well, it is, to me, a very...
The left has always struck me as kind of me-ism, at least not always, more of the modern left, which is that they want a sort of mental or ideological structure that makes sense of the world to them, but they don't particularly want the kind of responsibilities that come along with Christianity, Catholicism, but they don't particularly want the kind of responsibilities that come along with Christianity, Catholicism, Protestantism, and so on, where you do get a structure and a way of looking at the world, you do get a moral center, but it comes with particular obligations, particularly
Self-restraint of substance use, self-restraint of the need to call or the desire to call on government to solve all of your problems.
So the people who get structure without...
The restraint of impulses or urges seem to me extraordinarily dangerous because if you don't have self-restraint, you end up having to call on an external agency to restrain yourself or others.
And that's where I think some of this escalating statism comes from.
Oh, we've seen this today.
I mean, Jimmy Kimmel just did a big thing last night where he was crying and he said the GOP should pray to God to forgive them for letting this happen.
And you realize that they've just given over their souls to the state.
It's sort of like when you get a calculator and you're using it too much and you catch yourself typing in 10 times 10 and you go, Oh my God, what am I doing?
I don't know that's a hundred.
And these people, you know, you see people do it with lawyers too a lot.
They'll end up calling their lawyer going, should I buy a car?
Should I go home at 5 p.m.?
And the lawyer loves it because he gets more money, he gets more power, he gets more control.
And we've gone that way with the government.
If there was a shooting, a friend of mine said this the other day, he said, this happened on your watch, Trump.
You were supposed to protect us.
So Trump's responsible.
And you see this at rallies, too.
Every time someone's touched, remember when Trump touched Michelle Field's arm?
Police! Help!
Authorities! And they always say the same thing, too.
They go, that's assault. That's assault.
You just touched me. That's assault.
Don't touch my camera. That's assault.
That's assault. And it's all about the government handling their problems.
And you compare it to our childhood in the 70s, where Barry Pablo is going to beat you up at 320 the next day.
And it was just handled.
You just did it. I can't stop thinking about this story my dad told me where he saw a dog defecating in a park and he went up to the owner and yelled at him and they got in this 20-minute fight when my dad looked like a pumpkin the next day.
And they both agreed to disagree after the fight and it had been handled.
We used to handle our own business a long time ago and now we want the government not just to handle our business but to handle everyone else's business.
It's weird. I mean, your comment about the childhood growing up in the 70s as well.
There's two things that you never did when I was growing up.
Number one, you never went to authority.
You never, like whoever called the teacher was going to be socially ostracized for about half a biblical eternity.
I mean, the idea that you would run to the teacher to deal with the inevitable squabbles and conflicts and sometimes fights that occur between kids, that was considered to be a real loss.
Run to authority. No, you handle it yourself.
You handle it within the group.
That was number one. And number two...
If you cried, you lost.
Can you imagine when you're having a big argument or a big debate or a big fight and you're like, you play victim, you roll possum, you curl up, armadillo style, and you cry and you suck your thumb and then you think you've done anything other than giving yourself an endless target for mockery from here to eternity?
So, you know, playing the victim and running to authority was unfathomable for me for most of my youth and childhood.
You put up your dukes.
You put up your physical or mental.
You just – you had your arguments.
You had your debates.
And you emerged better thereby.
And you learned how to regulate your own emotions.
You learned how to regulate within your own social community.
And you lost by doing exactly what the left generally does today, which is play victim and run to authority.
Yeah.
I remember being a kid maybe nine years old and I was pretty flexible and I could fit my whole body into a dollhouse.
And so I go, hey guys, check this out.
And I didn't know the guys well at this sort of children's, I don't know, birthday party or something.
And then they started rolling the dollhouse that I was in.
And I was, you know, my feet were here, my elbows were down there, I was a little tiny ball.
And they were going near the stairs, and I started panicking.
And then I smashed out of the dollhouse and went and ran out of the house screaming, crying.
I was a marked man at school after that and was beaten for months because I had showed weakness.
And that day I learned, okay, I'm never going to, you're either going to be a bully or a victim.
I think I'll choose bully and always fought back after that.
And I think one of the problems with millennials is Besides the fact that we had illegal aliens doing all their jobs and killed their economic libido, is we've protected them from the dollhouse incident.
So they just, I mean, Kimmel's on TV bawling his eyes out every second day.
If it's not his son, it's his hometown.
And it's just, weakness has become hip.
And it's not a good look because...
You create a vacuum, and someone says, alright, if you're not going to be a man, I'll just be the man for you.
Give me your money, give me your votes, give me your tax dollars, give me all the rights to all the regulations to your life, and I will run your life from now on.
And that is what half of the country seems to want.
And by the way, not only do they want the government to run their lives and our lives, they want to kill us.
I know it sounds extreme, but they've dehumanized us to the point where We're human garbage.
And I swear to God, if Ann Coulter was brained with a rock, there would be memes about it.
What's on your mind, Ann?
It would be something they joked about.
They joked about Roger Ailes' death when his body was still warm.
Phyllis Schlafly when she died.
Pardon me? Phyllis Schlafly when she died.
There was echoes of celebration in the Twitterverse.
Yeah, that was hilarious.
Even this shooting, we saw tons of tweets saying, ah, they're country fans, I don't care.
I hope it was only Trumpers that got killed.
Even that lawyer, that vice president at CBS, that executive, she was saying that she doesn't care because they're human garbage.
And it's like, what was it, Charles Krauthammer said, he goes, they think we're evil, we just think they're wrong.
And when you think a group of people is evil, it's like the soldiers in Vietnam.
They're just killing gooks.
They're killing garbage.
And then later on, they get PTSD when they realize, oh, they were actually killing human beings.
These people want us dead.
And I don't think other people know, but I don't think they understand that Dana Lash had to move after death threats.
Stephen Crowder had to move.
I get them all the time.
The other day I had a note in my car that said the whole diatribe about leather and fur and how I have to be kinder to animals.
Wow. No, and for people in the left, they do live in a little bit of a bubble because they're protected by the media, they're protected by academia, and anyone who calls them out is sort of publicly shamed.
They have a whole brigade of people who will go and try and get people fired and try and get people harassed and all of that kind of stuff.
So I don't think they know.
And, you know, I don't see anyone on the right.
Who is saying, you know, the left is human garbage.
They're evil. They're Nazis.
And, you know, they should be punched.
They should be hit. They should be kicked.
You know, I'm happy when they're...
Like, this doesn't seem to happen that much on the right, probably because of Christian compassion and empathy and the sense that we all have a soul from that perspective and all of that.
But it really isn't happening the same way as to whether, you know...
Well, they think we're evil, we just think that they're wrong.
I don't know that it stays like that forever.
If you continue to get dehumanized, at some point, the people doing all of the dehumanizing and calling for violent action against you start to step into the moral shadows pretty deeply, I think.
Well, that's the million-dollar question.
Is there a limit to this?
When does it end? You know, I thought Vegas...
We don't know this guy's motive, but it's looking pretty left-wing if he's shooting country music fans.
But we don't know. But that doesn't shake them.
And then you go, well, let me just check out, you know, radical Islam.
When you look at Iran, you look at Saudi Arabia, and you see women getting caned because part of their bangs are peeking out of their burqa.
These women are on your side.
They're radicals, too.
They're pro-Sharia.
They want to be second-class citizens.
And you're still not happy with them.
So then you start to think, wait a minute, is there a limit to this?
I mean, will you be happy?
We had Chelsea Handler the other day praising Kim Jong-un.
We've got Sean Penn chilling with Chavez in Venezuela.
They like Venezuela.
They like Cuba. They like Russia.
They like Mao. They have Stalin on their tote bags.
And you think, I don't know if there's a limit to this.
I don't think you're going to be mad about genocide.
Well, I mean, you look at the Che Guevara t-shirts.
Che Guevara? I mean, this guy was a mass murderer, gunned down children.
And it's like, yeah, but he looks cool and red, man.
I mean, this stuff is just horrendous.
The amount of bloodshed that is covered over by the left.
You know, the quarter of a billion B, quarter of a billion people slaughtered by their own governments outside of war in the 20th century.
A lot of them left-wing, communist, repressive, authoritarian governments from that.
The amount of murders that are put in place to get leftist regimes into place.
I mean, it is just the amount of base humanity, the amount of blood that you have to step over, the amount of bodies you have to pretend aren't there just to get to your goal is truly horrendous.
And to me, it's almost become like a test of reptilian cold-blooded heartlessness to see people who do anything to defend the left's 20th century history in particular.
I think you're right. They really seem to be outdoing themselves.
It's a pro-death culture.
You see that with abortion.
It started with cool culture, with rock and roll, with heroin, live fast, die young.
And that sort of defined the cool aesthetic is, I don't want to live forever.
You know, I'm a rock and roller.
I'm going to die. And now that's evolved into policy where we laugh at dead babies.
And now it's evolved into Laughing at Roger Ailes' corpse and laughing at this, and at the same time saying, government, can you get rid of all these scumbags?
Can you get rid of all these conservatives?
I mean, even with this Vegas thing, they're saying he would have passed all background checks.
No matter how strict we were, he would have passed.
They admit that. They freely admit that.
So you go, okay, so what's your plan?
Get rid of the guns themselves.
Okay, so the government gets rid of all guns.
So the government comes into your home and starts confiscating weapons.
That's what you're advocating.
And that's what haunts me about these people, about this leftist agenda, is they want to burn America to the ground, and they have nothing left to replace it.
They don't have a plan B. They just want to ruin everything.
Like, they want to end the family, they want to destroy Christianity, and they go, wow, you want to destroy Christianity?
That's what, thousands of years of history and trial and error.
What's your idea? I don't know.
Wreck it. Just blow it up.
Central planning. Oh yeah, this is a quote that I had some years ago.
I said, if you're for gun control, then you are not against guns because the guns will be needed to disarm people.
So it's not that you are anti-gun.
You'll need the police's guns to take away other people's guns.
So you're very pro-gun. You just believe that only the government, which is of course so reliable, honest, moral, and virtuous, should be allowed to have guns.
There is no such thing as gun control.
There is only centralizing gun ownership and In the hands of a small political elite and their minions.
You cannot get rid of guns.
Fundamentally, you can only give the government the sole power to be armed.
And as we've seen in China, as we've seen in North Korea, as we've seen in a variety of places, as we saw in Germany in the 1930s, gun control leads to some very bad actions by the state.
You know, what we're doing here is we're trying to...
We're putting our brain into their heads.
And I do this all the time on the streets of New York.
I'll see a bomb and I'll go...
You know, if I was him, I would probably sleep in that awning there, and then I would do odd jobs, and then I would get some money, and then I would stay at a youth hostel, and then blah, blah, blah.
And the next thing you know, you're back where you are right now, because you're putting your brain in a bum's head.
And we're putting our quest for truth and logic and reason into the left's head, and leftists aren't like that.
A lot of them are disgruntled feminists with dried-up ovaries who are mad at the world for taking away their miracle.
The lack of toddlers to chase around makes them chase us around like we're toddlers.
It's like we've got, I call it getting a robot wet.
And it's just sort of going, exterminate, exterminate.
They're irrational. But it's like arguing politics with someone who's blackout drunk.
And you're sitting there going, okay, I get it.
Charlottesville represents the right.
Okay, so there's a war on.
Against anti-racists.
All right. All right. I understand what you're saying.
And then Vegas happens.
You go, oh, see? The war isn't just on Heather Heyers.
There's a war going on with Trump people.
Country fans are being dehumanized.
That's guns. That's you.
But that contradicts the previous thing.
You know what? You're dead.
You're a dead man.
And we keep arguing with this drunk, hoping that logic will come in.
But it's fashion to them.
It's sports. So the Dallas Cowboys are their team, and if the Dallas Cowboys do something wrong, then they point out something that your team did wrong.
They don't want to get to the truth.
They just want to win. And this whole issue around free speech is, to me, becoming very critical.
I mean, to me, the state is a way for idiots to have influence that they could not otherwise achieve in the free market of ideas.
If you passionately devote yourself to learning rhetoric, to learning even elements of sophistry, and I got this whole book out called The Art of the Argument, if you If you really dedicate yourself to mastering language, to mastering persuasion, to working on your public speaking skills, to working on your writing skills, reading your Cicero, reading your Aristotle, really polishing your capacity, then you're going to have massive influence in society, particularly now when all you need is a webcam and, you know, the old song, Three Chords of the Truth.
You just need a webcam, a mic of the truth.
And for me, the people who then look at this dazzling swordplay of language It's like that old movie, Indiana Jones.
You know, the guy with the sword pulls it out and shoots him.
It's like this guy's been lurking and learning all this swordplay, and you're not going to fight him on his level.
You're just going to pull out the state and shut him up, or you're going to try and get YouTube to demonetize, or you're trying to get advertisers to quit, or you're trying to get someone fired, or some negative reputational damage or economic damage.
That, to me, is a fundamental inability.
To match someone's wit and eloquence and that to me is a confession.
It's like you and I as kids, we're having a bike ride with another kid and the other kid just loosens the nuts on our wheel and then, I won!
I won! And it's like, it's so sad.
These people don't have wit, intelligence, eloquence.
They don't have sophistication.
They don't have a knowledge of history.
They don't have an understanding of rhetoric.
All they can do is try and make life difficult for people who do and then think that they're contributing something to the human conversation.
Yeah, but the good news is that word gets out that they remove the bolts on that bike.
And other people love racing bikes.
It's a fun thing. It's one of the best parts of being a kid.
And so other kids go, what was going on?
Did he really win? No, he loosened the bolts.
Oh, well, I want to race him.
And then you race him without your bolts loosened and you destroy him.
And people go, that guy's...
Full of shit. He's a liar.
He's not worthy of our bike races.
And eventually, over time, that guy gets wiped out, which I think is why you're seeing millennials, or not millennials now, the new millennials, coming out as 15% conservative, where previous generations were 5%, 3%, smaller.
It hasn't been this way since the 80s, because I think young men love to argue.
It's fun, and it gets you girls.
So these guys love to argue.
They love having facts. They go up against people like you and I and get destroyed and they go, I don't want to get destroyed again.
So there's two things you can do there.
You can either get informed and come back with real facts and real evidence.
And please do that, by the way.
I love losing arguments because I'm smarter after.
It's like going to the brain gym.
Lose an argument, win the truth.
Yeah, exactly. When I lose, the truth wins.
Or... You can just shut it down.
And to do that, they have all these go-to terms like don't give Nazis a platform.
And when someone is literally condoning genocide, which is just what?
What? When someone is literally condoning genocide, you don't debate them.
You get them out of your town.
You shut them down.
And you go, I kind of agree with you.
If someone was plausibly pushing for genocide and there was even a snowball's chance in hell that That that might happen.
Then yeah, maybe we do have to get violent.
But where'd you come up with this genocide idea?
It is fantastical.
It's ridiculous.
It's insane. And they're using it as an excuse for shutting down the first day.
No, no, no, that cannot last.
But, you know, this First Amendment stuff, to me, everybody understands freedom of association, but to me, forced association is a violation of freedom of association.
As a taxpayer, God help me, as a taxpayer, I find it absolutely repulsive that I must be forced to subsidize state-run media, that I must be forced to subsidize academics who seek to undo every treasure that my ancestors handed to me in terms of freedom, all the blood-soaked...
Liberties that were won over thousands of years.
The fact that I have to subsidize people who speak words that I consider the disassembly of everything great in life, that to me is a great violation.
And this is something that's very, I think, underappreciated, just how difficult and dangerous this is.
I mean, look at these nutty professors out there who seem to have no particular understanding of freedom of speech and a worship of violence at times.
Well, you're being funded.
You're being forced to fund that.
You are being forced to pay for that.
And I consider that to be despicable at the nth level, because once you're free of actually having to provide value in the free market of ideas, you can come up with any kind of crazy nonsense you want, and you'll find someone to take your course.
And I find that particularly hideous.
And one thing I would do as soon as possible if I were in politics is just stop all of this funding, particularly of higher education.
Let them have to respond to the marketplace because it really twists and destroys young people, ladens them down with debt, burdens them with resentment and guilt and fear and hatred.
And really, it's a toxic environment for the mind, the heart, and the soul.
And it's being subsidized.
To be attacked is one thing.
To be forced to pay for your attackers, to me, is quite something else.
It's communist. It's sinister.
It's socialism. And, you know, you were talking earlier about Christianity.
I think it's blasphemous.
The closer you are to God, the more free you are, the more natural you are, and that's the free market.
When you condone big government, you are playing God.
And I believe God added checks and balances in there.
The 100 million that were killed by, or the 80 million that were killed by Mao, for example, that was God saying, by the way, when people do this, you'll notice there's a lot of death, so don't do that.
There's a little note left in socialism and communism that tells you that this doesn't work.
But they keep plowing forward with it anyway.
And, you know, you talk about state-run control media.
I was just in London on vacation, and they have the BBC run by the government, and Canada has the CBC. And it's very frustrating that tax dollars are used to brainwash people.
But what's even more haunting about it is how incredibly effective it is.
You know, you talk to Canadians, you talk to British people, and they believe this crap.
That gets sent to them from the government.
And I was watching a thing on Trump on BBC Three, I think, in my hotel in London.
And it was about The Handmaid's Tale.
And you're watching it going, okay, Margaret Atwood.
And it was all about Margaret Atwood's upbringing.
They did get in when she was a mother and how she enjoyed it.
And they said, then they started going about The Handmaid's Tale being about conservatives.
And you go, no, I remember when it came out, actually.
And it was about all the sinister, horrible things she saw in the Middle East.
The disgusting torture where they'd open a woman's vagina and have insects crawling in.
And the oppression in Iran in 1979.
That's what inspired her to do The Handmaid's Tale.
But that's been whitewashed.
And now it's about Mike Pence.
And of course, like almost every news show I saw in Britain, it ends with footage of Nazi zekeiling and then skinheads from the 80s and then Trump and how Trump has enabled a new level of Nazi blah, blah, blah.
And we're fighting against that with The Handmaid's Tale.
And you go, this is ridiculous juvenile rhetoric and it's funded by the government and it's working.
And it works in Britain.
It works in Canada. And then, sorry to drone on here, but with education, it's a similar screw-up.
I mean, in New York here, we have charter schools that do incredible.
And what they do is they go to the free market, and they say, I'm in Harlem.
I notice kids here don't have dads.
We're going to do discipline. And in Harlem, they run them like military schools.
They run laps. They do push-ups.
And their grades are soaring.
Black single moms are fighting tooth and nail to get their kids into these charter schools.
And the New York Times hates it because blacks are their little pets and government is always right.
So I remember seeing a headline, I think they've since changed it actually because I keep making fun of it, but it said, despite the success, despite charter schools thriving in Harlem, it's not a cure-all solution.
And the thesis of their article was that a lot of kids can't get into charter schools, so it's not a perfect solution for them.
But in both cases, state-run media and state-run education, you have the free market kicking ass and taking names, and the government and liberals doing everything they can to ignore that fact.
Right. It's frustrating.
I do think that the left understands things in a way that it's hard for the right to understand, though.
And let me sort of make a brief case for that.
Let me know what you think. The right is often composed of people who are energetic, economically successful, intelligent, and productive, and not reliant on the state for income.
Certainly not any significant portion of income.
Now, as you know, what is it, like two-thirds of Americans barely pay any taxes.
Half of them are dependent on the state for income.
You've got Social Security.
You've got unemployment insurance.
You've got your disability benefits and all that.
There are a lot of people who are dependent on the state, so much so that, in a sense, the parasites are overwhelming the host and it can't possibly sustain itself.
Now, of course, Trump's goal is, you know, grow the economy, try and wean people off the state and try and have a soft turning or a soft landing of an unsustainable trajectory of state power and state money printing and exploitation.
But I think that, you know, the kids who've been born, you know, some woman says, oh, you know, I can make more by having three kids than by having a middle-class job, so that's what I'm going to do, and I don't need no man.
Well, of course, you get new resources by force through the state.
I mean, in some levels, it's the moral equivalent of the comfort girls that were used by the Japanese overseas, right?
You force people to give up their resources, whether it's sexual or monetary, and you don't have to treat them well, which is the modern contempt for men.
But... My concern is that they kind of got things accurate in that if government shrinks, if government redistribution shrinks, there are going to have to be huge changes in society.
People are going to have to give up unjustly gotten gains.
They're going to have to give up their free stuff.
Of course, the goal is, well, look, there are jobs there, you can get married, there are collectives, you can all hang out together and you can take care of each other's kids while you're off working.
But that's a big change for people who probably don't feel like they can manage it or handle it or view it as an evil to their immediate economic interests.
So the fact that they're fighting tooth and nail against any proposed restriction, even on the expansion of state power, has a certain kind of reptile brain logic to me.
You know, in that, well, the source of their revenue might be cut off and they don't feel or believe that they can do anything to get revenue as well.
So they sort of have been entombed in the state.
And I wonder if they can survive as free range livestock in the future, so to speak.
They've been the pen so long.
So the fact that they escalate and are willing to use violence to protect the source of their income, and I think what they deep down believe is the only source of their income, has a certain kind of logic to it from just a resource acquisition standpoint.
Well, you know, you could even be right if you're not talking about the ones on welfare and on social services, just liberal academics who go, those people.
won't be able to survive if you cut government spending.
And I think you might be right, but the truth is it doesn't matter because this is unsustainable.
You know, Naomi Schaefer-Raleigh has a great book out right now called The New Trail of Tears about what welfare has done to the American Indian and how they would have been so much better off without these benefits.
And I think she's right.
In that book, imagine a society where you couldn't afford to give Indians this anymore.
We see this with the NYPD and the FDNY pensions.
You know, these guys were in 9-11.
They're willing to die for us.
They deserve some money.
The money's not there.
New York City doesn't have these pensions.
Some of these guys are getting $120 a year.
You say you got a bad back on your last year.
You're looking at $120. You retire at $40.
You live till $80.
You can pass the pension on to your wife.
I don't care whether you deserve it or not.
The money isn't there.
So I'm inclined to say tough love.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and we need to cut these people off.
In Maine, they had a governor who said, I'm going to make them do 20 hours of volunteer work a month, and he went down from 20,000 users to something like 2,000.
He thought maybe it would go down 10%.
It went down something like 90%, and that's because these people...
We're faking it.
And they would do better with the tough love of work.
Look, we evolved to derive pleasure from hard work.
You have a beer after building a fence.
It's the most delicious beer on earth.
You have a beer at 10 a.m.
It tastes like cold pee.
The ones who don't derive pleasure from hard work are extinct.
It's a natural instinct over time.
And when you keep giving someone charity, like I used to live next to this Puerto Rican neighborhood in the Lower East Side, and you'd see these kids There were third-generation welfare in the projects, and you think, that's not good for your soul.
That's not good for you.
So like the banks, you can't be too big to fail.
We can't bail you out.
You have to suffer. And you're saying they might not live?
Sorry, there's no plan B. We don't have the money anymore.
Giving you free money is unsustainable.
So whether you're gonna make it or whether you're not, it's not really relevant.
The only possible solution is that we stop all this charity.
Now, I happen to think it'll be best for you, but even if it's not, we don't have a choice.
Well, of course, if there's a war, Tens of millions of men are expected to nut up, strap on their weaponry and go out and get shredded in various places around the world.
And people say, well, that's, you know, that's a necessary sacrifice.
But when you ask people to give up their welfare, well, you're generally not asking.
A lot of men, although there are certainly men who are on welfare, oh no, women might have to sacrifice.
Oh no, it's The worst thing ever, we've got to have the white knights riding in.
Well, she can't possibly. We're asking sacrifice from a non-traditional source of sacrifice.
You know, like a Pacifica shooting, right?
You've got all these guys, the shooting that just happened in Las Vegas, you've got all these guys draping themselves all over these women.
Some of these women, they don't even know.
And this is this sort of built-in, I mean, the chillingness and celebration of male disposability may be a topic for another time, but now we're asking groups who are not normally required to sacrifice, to sacrifice.
And of course, of course we're supposed to work.
I mean, what do we do throughout most of our evolution?
Maybe I'm just talking about more northern or cold climates here, but what do we do throughout most of our evolution?
We deferred gratification so we didn't starve to death during the winter.
We got up and we worked.
Protestantism and the work ethic didn't come out of nowhere.
You worked or you froze.
You worked or you starved. You worked or you died.
And that's what men did. And women had babies from their teens until their 30s, often their late 30s.
That's what we did.
Men worked and women had babies.
And now we've got this weird civilization.
Where, what is it, like 90 million Americans out of the workforce?
Men aren't working. Women aren't having babies.
What the hell are we doing? Do we not understand what a massive deviation this is?
This is like trying to live on ball bearings, gravel and clouds for our diet.
We've deviated so far from what evolved us and what gave us meaning, strength and purpose.
Don't forget drugs, too.
I mean, I was just in upstate New York at the dollar store.
And everyone there was high.
They were on Xanax, they were on Percocets, they were on Oxycontin.
Well, you can get some pretty good snacks at a dollar store.
Oh, they were all buying giant energy drinks, probably because they did too many opioids and they wanted to come up after going down.
Gotta rehydrate! Right.
There seem to be two jobs in upstate New York right now.
There's corrections officers and there's criminals.
And the criminals are either in jail or on their way back to jail while they do drugs.
Pharmaceuticals. It's a strange place to be.
And it sounds like we're both guessing that everyone would be better off without a welfare state, without free drugs, without all these freebies.
But, you know, you look at Black America and you go, wait a minute, back before we shattered the Black family with welfare, the Black family stayed together.
And when they did that, they committed crimes in society about the same as whites.
There wasn't this massive, disproportionate number of blacks committing crimes that we have now.
And so, charity has already shown us That it's worse for society.
And I think that you and I do this a lot too.
We sit and we talk to them and we try to appease them with logic.
But I think it's time we just go, yeah, I'm not talking about this anymore.
It's like kids with bedtime.
They always want to argue, we're in the ninth inning, it's going to go late.
This is a really important game.
No, sorry. You're not watching baseball at 10.30 p.m.
You're nine years old. It's bedtime.
This isn't open to debate.
I tried debating you.
You didn't want it.
So we're done with that now.
You're going off welfare.
Everyone gets the First Amendment.
Everyone gets the Second Amendment.
Shut up and screw off.
Get off my lawn. It'd also be nice to have the illegal search and seizure and surveillance thing back just a little bit from everybody looking at everything that you do digitally.
But this is the thing. I mean, I got my first job when I was 10.
I like to work. I like to work.
The idea, you know, there's this old thing where, oh, I retired and I just got so bored.
There's only so many games of golf you can play or whatever.
I like to work. It's a productive and positive and energetic use of my mind.
The mind is a muscle that needs to be employed, and the service of virtue is the very best thing that you can do.
It's the old Aristotelian argument that the pursuit of excellence, particularly in virtue, is the surest path to happiness, and happiness is the one thing we don't seek for the sake of something else.
else.
We get money to spend it.
We, you know, we rest so we can work.
We work so we get stuff, but happiness we get for its own sake.
And there's only one way to get there, which is the pursuit of excellence, particularly in the moral realm.
This has been well known, and the pursuit of virtue in the Christian context is the same thing.
That is the route to happiness and meaning and contentment.
The thing that has changed, I mean, you keep referring to charity.
I mean, the minor correction, of course, is this welfare state is not charity.
Welfare state is a rampant corruption and vote buying and the creation of dependent classes on state power for the sake of expanding state power.
How on earth you get to vote when you are dependent on the state?
Can you vote objectively about the hand that feeds you?
Can you vote objectively about the hand that feeds you?
Can you vote objectively about the welfare state?
It makes no sense to me whatsoever.
You know, if you're a financial writer and you're recommending a certain company or a certain stock, if you hold that stock, you're supposed to tell people there's a conflict of interest and so on.
How much conflict of interest is there in the state?
You know, if you're a big company who's helping to fund directly or indirectly some politicians, of course you're hoping for massive benefits, and they do get massive benefits.
And if you're somebody on welfare, can you be objective about the welfare state?
If you're a woman who's getting alimony, child support up the yin-yang, can you be objective about family courts and the legalities and the intricacies of that system?
It seems to me like the only people drawn to politics now, certainly on the left of those with a particular axe to grind and a particular benefit to pursue, the corruption is almost defined by one's proximity and attempts to influence politics.
It's insider trading.
People on welfare who vote are committing acts of fraud.
They're committing insider trading.
They should be arrested. But isn't it funny how, with Christianity, they don't need it, right?
It's stupid. It's antiquated.
Oh, some flying guy in the sky.
Yet, they keep coming up with things to repair the hole that happened when they took Christianity out, like rehab.
How long is rehab? It's 40 days.
That's what Lent is.
Or you've got Madonna with her Kabbalah red thread on.
I don't want to be Jewish.
That's too corny. So I'm going to be a Kabbalist.
That sounds philosophical.
Or you got every hipster in Williamsburg with their yoga mat sitting and meditating and not exercising.
It's not exercise. You're just stretching.
You're just sitting there thinking, getting closer to you and getting closer to this sort of oneness of the universe.
Yeah, that's called church.
Everything they come up with, with therapists, is your priest, everything they come up with is just a crappy version of the Christianity they just kicked out the door.
And I don't understand why.
Even with the punk scene in New York, these kids were street kids and they needed some sort of structure and they chose Krishna core.
And they all got into Krishna.
Okay. It's all religion at the end of the day.
You're still a Christian. It's natural to be in awe of the universe.
And I don't understand why you're trying to sabotage it, especially when you have no plan B. You know, I was pro-gay marriage when they told me it's just two people in love.
I thought, yeah, that's fine. What do I care?
Straits are terrible at marriage.
They're up to a 50% divorce rate.
And then time goes on and I start noticing, wait a minute, this seems to be all about gender and bathrooms and you forcing Christians to make you cakes and you fining people for not having a wedding in their living room.
You seem to be more about sabotage than two people in love.
And as Pat Buchanan points out in Death of the West, once you sabotage Christianity, once you can destroy that, that's the errant thread that unravels the whole sweater.
And everything starts deteriorating after that.
And I think the first thing we're seeing topple is the family.
You know, the way my friends talk about divorce, God, it sounds like they're talking about doing their taxes or having gallstones.
It's just an unfortunate month, but perfectly natural and perfectly cool.
They never mention the kids, by the way, when they talk about this.
They never mention the suffering the kids have to endure.
They just talk about themselves and how now I get to screw young chicks and it's totally fine, man.
No, it's not totally fine.
find it's step one in the decay of Western civilization.
Well, and they always say, well, the kids are happier with us apart.
Like the kids are just nodding like Stockholm syndrome thing saying, yeah, daddy, whatever you need, just, you know, let's, let's try and keep this thing going somehow.
Oh no, this, and it's funny too, because without the resistance of keeping your word, you know, we expect people to be honest.
We expect people to keep your word.
Your marriage vow is the most important promise you are going to make in your entire life.
That is where you throw your entire soul's gold on the way scale.
And to me, absent some unholy thing that happens in the marriage, I mean, I can't even get addicted to heroin or I don't know what, whoever, right?
I mean, and you've tried for years.
Absent something like that, the dissolution Of a marriage, the cheating, the destruction, or, you know, what is it?
The majority of women is 60, 70, 70 percent, I think, of divorces initiated by women.
Number one cause, dissatisfaction.
Ooh, dissatisfaction.
Can't have any of that. Can't have any of that.
You can't ever be dissatisfied.
You know what dissatisfaction is?
Dissatisfaction is civilization.
Hey man, I don't really like this cave that much.
I'm dissatisfied with my accommodations.
I don't really like being cold.
Let's rub some sticks together and maybe we can get a fire.
I don't really like Living naked, maybe we can skin some animals and make some fur.
Dissatisfaction is exactly why we're in a studio and not beating rocks with another rock trying to make music.
This is why we have all of this great stuff.
I'm dissatisfied with being too hot.
Let's have some air conditioning.
But dissatisfaction being the reason to break up marriage when dissatisfaction is the only reason we have a civilization?
It's complete madness and so destructive for the children and it's one of the things that has to be kept out of the equation.
Marriage dissolution creates a toxic environment for the children's minds, hearts and souls and is responsible for an untold amount of intergenerational human misery.
It's not even just the legacy of Social Security and all the unfunded liabilities that are passed along to children, disassembled and sold off to parts of Chinese banksters.
It is the legacy of taking marriage, marriage, the most fundamental institution that stands between humanity and totalitarianism.
because a well-structured family creates a self-regulating community.
The family and the disintegration of the family is the most tragic legacy, I think.
Even worse than the national debt and the endless wars because they're causal in that.
That is the worst legacy of the 60s.
Thank you for saying that.
That's so crucial too because A lot of these people don't have skin in the game.
I saw some pictograph of all the European leaders that don't have kids, and Angela Merkel being the perfect example of that.
I just think, yeah, your term is what's important to you, being popular with the young liberals getting more votes.
What's not important to you is your grandchildren's life in Germany.
They don't exist, so you're not going to be around.
And you see this with their attitude, with this pro-death attitude, with laughing at cadavers, until you've seen a baby and have him fall asleep on your chest and smell his hair and smell his weird, perfect breath that's magical.
You don't really understand the value of life the way we do.
And the way you talk about being a dog mom or being a cat mom, it shows me how much you've trivialized humanity, how little you feel.
And you hear people say that all the time.
They hear about a dead guy, a guy getting killed on the street, a cop in Edmonton getting run over by a Muslim, and they go, well, we have to watch out for white supremacy.
No regard for his life. If it was a puppy, There'd be riots in the streets.
But I think the big part of the way we trivialize humanity, we dehumanize people and roll our eyes at death, has to do with the lack of families.
And you're right. Gen X, I think, was the first generation.
The baby boomers invented a lot of terrible things.
They ruined education.
They made homes unaffordable.
But they also came up with this idea of divorce.
And I remember being a kid in 1980, and my parents, who are still together, We would always have these dads sleeping on the couch while they went through their divorce.
And I watched it happen in real time.
And they'd inevitably marry someone just like the woman they left.
I think it's a myth, the whole trade them in for a younger age.
Rich people do that. Celebrities do that.
The rest of humanity just seems to sort of get someone Just like their wife.
It's their type. And all you did was tell your children that love doesn't exist.
Love isn't really important.
It's not a thing. So why get married?
And my entire generation has said, yeah, I agree.
Love isn't real.
I'm not going to get married.
You know, I was just in with all these anarchists at this co-op in England.
And I'm sitting down, I was talking about marriage and our exact same subject, which doesn't go well with, you know, the hippies.
And one of them says, why do I need a piece of paper?
Why have I got to get a paper?
Why does a state have to sanctify my love?
And I go, man, it's more of a gesture.
You know, in business, I do this thing called a crayon contract where I have things like, what if I sleep with your wife?
And I'm obviously never going to do that.
But it's like, what if the apocalypse happens?
Then what happens to our shares?
And it's just a handwritten thing.
It's not that legally binding.
You know, it's not this thick with a notary signing it.
But it's just us sort of having a ceremony and saying, we understand the parameters of this deal, signature.
I like to prick my finger, too, and put some blood on it.
And I explained that to them, and the one older one, who's never been married, by the way, is like, oh, I think it's a joke, you know, that you need the government to support.
And then another woman was there who actually had kids and was divorced, and she goes, I don't know, I was talking to Jen, that's her daughter, and she said, you know, after I saw it didn't work out with you and dad, I mean, why bother, you know?
I mean, why get involved?
It just seems like a lot of misery.
And I think she was realizing that her divorce had sent a clear lesson to the children, which is, Don't get married.
Don't have kids.
It's all a lie.
Love is a myth.
Just be a dog mom for the rest of your life and don't experience adulthood.
Great lesson, Boomers.
Thanks for that. Great work.
It's how you diminish a genetic population is you make marriage ridiculous.
You make marriage a piece of paper.
Yes. Bullshit. It's not just a piece of paper.
Just for those who don't know, I'll just briefly explain what marriage is.
Let's say you've been dating a girl for like three weeks.
And, you know, it's fun.
She's fun. But there's some red flags.
You know, she's got, you know, maybe 17 cats.
16 would be okay. 17 may be considered a little excessive.
Something's going on. You know, she does wake you up in the middle of the night, ask you to pinch her hips.
And is she too fat? You know, just a certain amount of neurosis, certain amount of stuff that might be.
And so you go to your friends and you say...
You know, here's what's going on.
Here's the good. Here's the bad.
Here's the pluses and the minus. Well, it's a couple of weeks in, so your friends say, you know, if you're having doubts now, maybe you can just kick this one to the curb and keep looking, right?
So they're not—your community, your family, they're not that invested in your relationship.
Now, a marriage—forget the government.
Why did the American government get involved immediately?
Well, it got involved in marriages and started issuing licenses to make sure blacks and whites didn't intermarry.
That was the legacy of the Democrats.
That's why they ended up with marriage licenses, is they wanted to prevent miscegenation.
Anyway. What you do when you get married is you stand in front of your family and your friends and your loved ones and all the people who care about you.
And the marriage is you basically saying this.
If I try to leave this woman now, hit me upside the head with a wet fish and tell me to stay.
That's all it is. You're just saying, I'm committed.
Hold me to my word if my eyes wander.
Hold me to my word if we're having trouble.
Hold me to my word if I'm sleeping on the couch.
Hold me to my word.
It's like, what's it?
Odysseus with the mask, right?
On the mask. He ties himself on the mask and he says, I want to hear the sirens.
You know, the sirens that make you dive off and die on the rocks.
And he says, I want to hear them.
So tie me to the mask and whatever I do, don't untie me because I'm going to dive off to my death.
And his sailors are like, yeah, yeah, fine.
And then he's like, oh man, that's some beautiful music.
You guys got to totally untie me.
Forget what I said before. Untie me, untie me, untie me.
And his friends, his companions say, nope.
And he sails off and he's like, thank you so much for not untying me.
That's what you're doing. You're saying I'm there for the duration.
People who get divorced, who think of getting divorced and then don't, the vast majority of them five years later are really happy and say, thank goodness I did not get divorced.
That would have been a terrible decision. All you're doing is telling people your public commitment so they know where you stand, so they hold you to your word.
That's all that marriage is. Forget the government.
You know, you mentioned heroin addicts earlier as a reason.
I know a heroin addict who was divorced and he's now been to rehab and he's back and he's telling me this success story about how he's got a girlfriend and his ex-wife has a husband and he goes over to their house and they get along great and they co-parent.
And isn't that wonderful? And I go, no, it's not wonderful.
You clearly are compatible.
You clearly can be friends.
Sex is only once every few days, and it only lasts five minutes.
So you don't have to be that.
It's not like it's an orgy every moment.
So if you get along, you're good.
And he was showing me that they get along, but that they're not together anymore.
So the kid has been taught a lesson, which is love doesn't exist and don't stand by each other.
And the evidence now that you're friends just shows that you could have done it.
You failed. And Louis C.K., Kevin Hart, these comedians, they laugh about their divorce and talk about how great it is.
And I go, it's not funny.
It's a catastrophe. Oh, I can't stand the people, Gavin, who are...
Oh, I'm such great friends with my ex.
We get along so... Then why is she your ex, you idiot?
Exactly. I love that job.
That was the best job I ever had.
I'm never going to get paid that well again.
I'm never going to have that kind of flexibility.
I'm never going to have that meaning.
I'm so glad I quit and now work at a 7-Eleven.
Why did you quit if it was such a great job?
If you can get along well with your ex...
Why is she your ex?
I don't understand. That was the best car I ever had.
I'm really happy I sold it for eight bucks.
It's like, this doesn't make any sense.
I was talking to German the other day and he goes, you know, sometimes I'll have my daughter for the weekend and I'll drop her off on Sunday night.
And then me and my ex will sit and we'll have a glass, maybe a bottle of wine and just talk about, you know, our daughter and each other and our lives.
And I go, how can you not want to have sex with her?
She's sitting right there.
You got a buzz. You've had sex with her, what, thousands of times?
What are you doing?
Why is she your friend now, you fool?
Why did you screw up?
And we just shrug her through.
Pharma is a part of this, too.
I don't know how many guys, they've broken up with a girl.
They've gone on some sort of antidepressant and just sort of glided through it.
They're on Xanax the whole time, and they go, whatever, she's too young, and I had already had more lovers than her, and I've already experienced more life than her.
I get that she wants to move on.
I had a buddy who proposed, and the woman said, no, I'm too young.
She was 25. They'd been living together for five years, but she was too young.
So she left, and I want to experience life.
And when I hear that, I want to experience life, it just sounds like a slut.
Like, what, you want to have more penises in your life?
Before you settle down with this, they're all basically the same, by the way.
And of course, she regretted it ultimately, tried to get him back.
He had moved on and they screwed up.
And it was this myth in her head that women have to go out and sleep with tons of guys and be 30 before they think about getting married.
And I think men acquiesce too easily into it.
My other buddy in Mexico, Yashua, his young wife leaves him because she felt like she was too young and she got married too young.
And then she sees him at a party.
I've told this story a hundred times.
He sees her running in the bathroom.
He follows her and he hadn't seen her in about a year.
She's got mascara streaming down her face and she goes, why didn't you fight for me?
She was miserable without him.
Fight for her. She doesn't have to be your soulmate, but she does have to be your wife.
You can have a bad year, by the way.
I've known my wife since 2001.
We've had some rocky times.
She's a liberal vegan Hillary supporter.
We've had our ups and downs, but we ride it through because we know in the long term we're going to be happy.
And I've got to say, I've been married for, I guess I'm supposed to know this, I think 12 years.
But every time I look back on the five-year married guy, the eight-year married guy, the tenured married guy, he looks like an infant.
I go, you don't know anything about marriage, me, of last year.
Every time you survive a hurdle, you're a better marriage athlete.
You're stronger. You go from the bronze to the gold.
And I can only imagine the kind of success that you can achieve when you've been married for 30 years.
I mean, you're a god. And by the way, one other thing.
This myth about its steak every night.
Tom Shalhoub destroyed that analogy beautifully.
He goes, no, it's not the same food every night.
It's the same kitchen.
So you sit there in your own kitchen looking at your groceries going, ooh, what about this?
What about shepherd's pie?
But the sriracha on top, it's kind of a spicy shepherd's pie.
That's a whole new meal.
Well, when I was a kid, I mean, my parents split up when I was a baby.
And, I mean, having seen what became of their lives, it makes that whole decision somewhat questionable as a whole.
It wasn't like they moved on to some miracle paradise because there's always this grass is greener crap that's dangled, particularly in front of women.
Well, you see, your husband is kind of stodgy and sometimes he's not emotionally available, which usually means agreeing and crying.
But they say, oh, this is wonderful.
If you leave him, you will get a lovely little apartment down by the waterfront and you will end up with a wonderful affair with a young sculptor.
Who is sculpted and has just the right amount of facial hair to look rough but without actually rough while he's kissing you and it's going to be a wonderful time and it's going to be magical and you're going to discover infinite orgasms and you're going to get depth and you're going to...
They hold this weird thing.
It's like there's this old story of the Will of the Wisp, you know, this thing that leads you further and further into the swamp because it's so pretty and it dances in the air and then you just die in the swamp.
And there's this illusion out there that there's going to be this wonderful life out there after divorce.
No! No, there won't be because you're older and the only people left on the market are the broken, the shattered, the weird, the corrupt, the insane.
You know, it's like the used car.
Why is a used car on the market?
Well, usually because people don't want it.
Because if it's a good used car, you hang on to it like grim death.
So all of the good people are gone for the most part, certainly by your late 20s.
All of the good people are gone and you are going to go out there and you're going to have to try and build some kind of Franken-love out of the detritus and broken parts of people.
I mean, it's just, it's horrible.
And there's going to be such ridiculous compromises.
Or they're going to have kids.
Oh, I'm going to date a woman with kids because there's nothing better than those kinds of interruptions day and night.
And some creepy ex who resents me poking around is the mother of his children.
So this kind of stuff.
But when I was a kid, I remember very clearly, I grew up in an apartment building in London.
And there were some really old school people there.
People who'd fled Europe after the war and so on.
Old school people. There was a French couple there.
This French guy said to me, he said, and I don't know why, but I'm really glad.
And I was a little kid here. I was like seven or eight.
And he said to me once, I have no idea why.
He said, well, if you don't get married, you maybe get to date 10 or 20.
People over the course of your life and you'll know them a little bit here and there.
But if you do get married, you get to date thousands of people over the course of your life because you're both growing and you're both changing and there's new stuff all the time.
There's new experiences. You get to know them as a girlfriend, then as a fiance, then as a wife, then as a mother, then as a grandmother.
They're changing all the time, evolving all the time.
And that really stuck with me that there's this fantasy of variation or variety that happens.
But when you first meet people, they very rarely give you their true self.
They're usually giving you some kind of act.
You know, like when you don't act the same five years into the job that you do in the job interview.
It's like when you're a kid, that first page of your notebook is really nice and tidy.
And after that, it looks like you just smashed a bunch of spiders with a hammer after a while.
And so you don't get all of this variety that you think you're going to get when you date around because you just date people's false self.
You find out they're crazy self and you both recoil like you just touched an electrical socket with a wet screwdriver.
So I think people have all of these fantasies about what's out there, and then by the time they've blown up their families and gone out there and find the human wreckage they're supposed to stitch together some kind of happiness with, it's too late.
And that is what the devil does.
He promises you things and then only reveals the truth of the disasters you've made when it's too late to go back.
And by the way, there's also guys who don't get married that are in that same boat.
I know guys that are in their late 30s and they go, the single girls are in their 20s and I can't relate to them.
They don't know who the Fonz is.
We can't have discussions.
Sex is great, but that's, you know, five minutes.
And then all the women my age that I would get along with are married.
The few that are divorced want to get remarried right away.
So they're sort of stranded out there in the abyss, just like you say.
Led out there by the devil.
And it's a terrible place to be.
By the way, if your mother got divorced when you were a baby, which is infuriating.
Infuriating! And I've heard of this a few times.
It's too hard. We're not in love.
You're not getting any sleep for the first year.
How do you even know your relationship isn't going well?
You're not getting enough sex?
Ooh, sorry. But I think that woman...
Has to remarry as soon as possible.
She's morally obligated.
People are mad at Patton Oswalt for getting married a year or so after his wife died.
No, no, no, no. He's got a young kid.
You've got to get out there courting.
Are you the one? Okay, because this one needs two parents.
David Cross, too. His dad abandoned him when he was about 13, I think, and the mother stayed single forever.
There's some blame on mom there.
Mom, it's terrible what happened to you, but you've got to find a new man.
They always need two parents.
Hook up! Make the necessary compromises.
Now, let's just talk a little bit about kids.
You sort of touched on it earlier when you were, because certainly having, being a father has changed me enormously.
I remember the very first night my daughter came home.
First night she slept in the hospital and we were like, yay, we have a sleeper.
And then we didn't. But anyway, so I remember the first time we came home, my wife, of course, was exhausted and went to sleep.
And I was up with my daughter and she was lying on my chest.
And I can't even remember how I figured out how to do this.
But the only way I could get her to stop shifting around and to rest was to make this sound.
And I apologize for the zombie noise I'm about to produce.
But the sound that I had to make was this.
Now, if I kept making that sound, she eventually would.
And then when the moment I stopped making the sound, she started, you know, cloying and all that.
And I pretty much figured out that must be the sound of my wife's innards, because that's what she was used to.
And seeing a child grow up, she's now almost nine.
When I look at people now, before I would look at them like they're just a time slice.
Oh, this guy's 40, this guy's 30, this woman's 70.
It's just a time slice. Now, I see this weird time tube going back to them as babies.
You know, the people that you meet have these long, deep roots into history.
They were all babies. You know, they all had the diapers changed.
They all had good and bad experiences that made them who they are for better and for worse.
And now I can't help but look at people and see this deep history, this sort of Bohemian Rhapsody video blur of their past selves going back to the very beginning, all the way back to conception.
And I think it's really hard to dehumanize people when you look At that kind of deep history.
And I think that the people who don't have kids and who deal with people in cold academic abstractions, like, well, you're white and you're privileged and you're male and you're patriotic.
These are cold categories and abstractions.
And I have to resist this against myself with the left to some degree.
When you deal with people in these cold abstractions, I think it's a lot easier to do.
If you're out of touch with your own history, or if you've not had kids and see just how much goes into the building of a human personality, both genetic and environmental, I think it's just easier to dehumanize if you haven't grown life from scratch.
Yeah. It's easier to buy a piece of meat on the market than to raise a cow and kill it yourself.
Sorry, I just wanted to mention that. Charles Murray has a fun little book for millennials called The Curmudgeon's Guide to Getting Ahead, and he talks about how to know who to marry, and he says that if you're a tidy person, you should go with a tidy person.
If you're very punctual, you should go with a punctual person.
Minutia isn't important, but there's four or five major things that you should try to find.
I like it, and he's got a good point, but he forgets when you have kids.
I have three kids. And that's like my wife and I are coaches of a football team.
We have so much in common with these three kids and their lives and what's best for them.
In fact, when we go on dates, we have to stop ourselves and say, okay, we're not going to talk about the kids.
We have to talk about other stuff.
But it's amazing how much children...
Bond you to your wife because you have so much in common.
You're both sort of witnessing this miracle happen live in your own home.
But it also bonds you to humanity.
When you walk down the street, when I go to church, I'm in this church, it's 100 years old.
And I thought, it's a very kid-friendly church.
Like during Christmas, the kids are in the front playing instruments and singing the songs.
And it's not just a celebration of Jesus and Catholicism.
It's a celebration of life and children.
And the connection we all have.
I mean, I feel connected with the guys who built the church.
When I look up at the stone masonry and I look at the craftsmanship, I think this guy was sort of, this was a shout out to me.
And it's also a shout out to the future me's.
And I'm here supporting, you know, this guy's kid.
And we turn around, by the way, after the Lord's Prime, we all say, peace be with you, peace be with you, peace be with you.
We're all sort of unified together.
And it's a very sad turn of events that the left has sort of cut the umbilical cord.
And separated themselves from the rest of us.
And they're floating out there on this satellite.
And you see it with media. 90% of Trump's coverage this summer was anti-Trump.
50% of the country loves Trump.
So these academics, these media pundits, these liberals have sort of said, I don't want anything to do with you.
Goodbye. And you go, you should really try it.
It is really a miracle.
And you're just a wrinkled teenager.
I mean, I've done what you're doing.
I've done the partying, I've done the cocaine, I've done the staying up all night, binge watching Netflix, whatever.
I'm familiar with that.
You're not familiar with my thing.
So I've had more lives than you and you need to be part of this thing.
It's why we're here. And you know, I saw this video, these two gay guys were saying, why not to have kids?
First of all, you're tired all the time and your sex life sucks after.
And they go, yeah, it does hurt sometimes.
It is hard work.
I mean, I'm constantly chasing screens down in the house, trying to catch contraband.
Kids on their screens when it's not screen time.
I'm constantly confiscating iPads.
But it's sort of like you're a planet of piano players.
And what powers the planet is piano music.
And people go, I don't know, take up the piano and it's hard work and a lot of people hate it.
Yeah, piano lessons are hard work and I can see yourself being frustrated until you're at the point where you're like and just playing it like it's second nature on planet piano.
That's what having kids is.
And when you don't take up the piano on planet piano, you're ascribing to a life of misery and solitude.
Go talk to people who work at old folks homes.
They say there's two types of people here.
People who have grandchildren, they have a sort of There's a serenity about them, a sort of zen bliss about them.
And then there's the ones without kids, and they're just tweaked out.
They're fanatical.
And I've talked to a lot of people who work in hospice, and they say the ones that don't have kids, they just are abnormal.
They seem panicked.
And that's what you're signing up for when you say no to this natural instinct.
Well, I mean, good heavens, everybody who is alive, we assume, has some treasure in life.
And that treasure exists because other people made the sacrifices to have children.
And then if you say, well...
It's too much work.
It interferes with my self-actualization.
First of all, you don't know that.
Having kids makes you more authentically yourself than ever before.
And for me, explaining the world to my daughter has made me a better communicator to the world as a whole.
I mean, the idea that it's somehow a massive subtraction.
Yes, you're going to get little sleep.
But did you ever say that about discos?
Well, I could go to the disco, but I might not get enough sleep.
Come on. I mean, the idea that we are all the beneficiaries of the sacrifice of organisms going back billions of years, but we somehow don't want to expend the effort to create life going forward is the ultimate selfishness to me.
I don't know that there's any fundamentally deeper selfishness that exists.
And again, you know, there are people who can't have kids, and there's a lot of exceptions and so on.
But people need to plan for this.
Like I say this to the young women who call into my show, and they're like, well, I want to do this, I want to do that.
I was like, yes, well, you know, eggs are...
Not infinite. They are not like kryptonite.
They don't just last forever. You really do have to make a plan around declining fertility.
And also, for women in particular, the more sexual partners you have, it's a dose-dependent.
It's like dick dose-dependent relationship.
The higher the stack of penises of the staircase you've climbed up to to get to where you are, The more likely you are to get divorced and to have a bad relationship.
Women do not survive an infinite flurry of dicks flying past them.
They just, they get knocked over.
It's like a candle and a dragon breath.
What's so great about dicks? Sorry? Why do they need all these dicks?
What is so important about a bunch of different dicks?
And I understand men, they're constantly consumed with sex, so they want to have a mental Rolodex of different types of girls so they can fantasize easier.
I guess I understand that, but You got drunk at 14.
You lost your virginity in your late teens.
You've been doing cocaine since you were 20 and pot.
You're 30 years old!
Your oats aren't sowed yet?
You haven't sowed your wild oats in 15 years, you weirdo?
How much cocaine do you have to do?
You want me to fill a wheelbarrow?
How much partying do you have to do?
If you are looking for dick variety after 15 years, I don't even know what kind of dick you're thinking of.
Does it have wings? Does it have a dragon tail?
Is it corkscrew shaped?
Does it speak fluent Farsi?
I mean, what exactly are you looking for when it comes...
I need to see a different kind of hand after I've seen a thousand hands.
It's like, I don't think you do.
There's really not that much variety.
I mean, I understand you wanting to wait till 23 or so, I guess.
But even if you can conquer the fertility thing, my mom had my brother when she was 40.
My wife had my youngest when she was 40.
But even if you beat all the odds, which you're not going to do, by the way, lottery winner, Even if you beat those odds, you're still an old man.
Don't be like me. I'm 47.
I'm chasing a four-year-old around the house.
I'm exhausted. I should be building him a hot rod.
I should have built my daughter an insane dollhouse.
I'm too tired because I'm too old.
And Lord only knows what I'm going to look like when my four-year-old graduates college.
I'm going to look like Larry David with a walker sitting there going, you, my knight in shining armor.
It's right. The graduation comes with a simulated but slow motion zombie attack in the back row.
Yay! I clapped and a hand fell off.
I love you!
It's right. I think I can make it to the end of the ceremony.
Fall asleep three times halfway through.
That's the irony of all this is the left is posturing pretending they're in there for social justice and equality.
I genuinely want people to be happier.
I genuinely don't want feminists to let their ovaries dry up.
Because I've seen it happen to my friends that are my age and they're miserable.
I don't want you to be miserable, ladies.
I don't want you to choose dogs over human beings.
I don't know how clear I have to make that.
Well, when we've had decade after decade of feminism and women's unhappiness continues to increase and middle-aged American women, 25% of them are on antidepressants, that is not...
What the revolution promised.
Hey, you'll be childless.
You'll be miserable. You'll be lonely.
You'll be bitter. And we're going to feed you full of psychotropics that are going to make you unstable.
And that's what we call progress.
It's a wretched, wretched situation.
And that's why I think a lot of these things are being re-evaluated.
Well... I want to take time to say thank you enormously for the conversation.
I think it was very enjoyable, and I look forward to all the, I guess, people making penises out of ASCII in the comments section below.
Wanted to remind people you can check out Gavin's show, Get Off My Lawn, at CRTV.com.
And how's it going, by the way?
I know this is a big change for you, and you worked mid-summer, late-summer to get all this going.
How's it been getting this show out?
It's great. I mean, it's a challenge not swearing.
And it's my first time not telling disgusting stories about excrement and genitalia.
But it's fun to try for the near future.
And the reason I'm doing it too is I want to get this message out about kids and marriage.
I think I definitely told these fringes of society the merits of family.
I told the weirdos and the freaks.
Now I want to push it more on the mainstream and say, guys, stop wasting time.
Put a ring on it. Ladies, stop letting your ovaries dry up.
I'm really out on a crusade to save the American family.
Well, and it's an interesting thing, just to sort of final wrap-up point, that one of the reasons why these middle-aged women, who I guess a lot of them are single, may be on antidepressants, is that male sperm actually has antidepressants built into it.
Male sperm, when ejaculated into the female vagina, improves mood.
And when you don't get the natural stuff, I guess you have to go with the artificial.
It is the stevia or sucralose of the natural sugar our balls produce.
Thanks very much for the time, Gavin.
A great pleasure. Serotv.com and twitter.com forward slash Gavin McInnes.
