All Episodes
Previous Next
Oct. 2, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
49:33
3845 The Truth About The Catalonia Independence Referendum
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Hi everybody, Stefan Mullen.
Some very important stuff going on at the moment.
The rule of law being called into question.
Unity, national identity being torn asunder and a centralized state imposing its will on a breakaway region.
This is the truth about the Catalonia independence referendum.
So, recent history on October 1, 2017, the territorial unity of Spain faced a challenge as the Catalan regional government staged its promised and highly controversial independence in referendum.
Despite the referendum being, quote, suspended by Spain's constitutional court and fiercely opposed by the central government, survey data suggests that 70% of Catalans wish to participate in the illegal vote, but only 41% support independence.
Going a bit further back in 1932, Catalonia first obtained a statute of autonomy, but the law was abolished by General Francisco Franco after the Spanish Civil War, where Catalonia faced significant violent opposition.
Franco, of course, a fascist dictator, opposed the founding of a republic.
Hey, so you really want to enforce that, right?
He allied with Hitler.
He did a lot to militarily support the Axis powers in World War II. And so it is...
It is his deal to reject autonomy that is being upheld, to some degree at least.
Now, after Franco's death in 1975, Spain became a constitutional monarchy, and in 1978 the Spanish constitution granted Catalonia a form of autonomy once again.
There are like about 17 regions in Spain, all with varying degrees of autonomy, but they do call it a country.
The Spanish Constitution of 1978 allows for consultative referendums on, quote, political decisions of special importance, end quote.
However, the holding of such a referendum requires the approval of both the government and the Congress of deputies.
The Constitution also references the indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation, the common and individual homeland of all Spaniards, which would prevent legal independence referendums without first obtaining a constitutional amendment.
On November 16, 2003, Catalonia, a political party supporting reform of the existing autonomy statute, got 88% of available seats in the regional election.
That's like almost approval of Stalin under communism type numbers, but perhaps with a slightly different spin.
Former Spanish Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero promised to, quote, support the reform of the autonomy statute that the Catalan Parliament approves.
On September 30, 2005, Catalan Parliament approved the new Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia, which would recognize Catalonia as a nation, give the Catalan language primacy over Spanish, expand regional government powers, establish a new tax collection body, and define legal boundaries with Spain.
This tax collection is very, very important.
In many ways, it's the heart of the issue.
We'll get to that shortly.
On February 1st, 2006, then-Conservative Spanish opposition leader Mariano Rajoy campaigned against the new Statute of Autonomy, collecting over 4 million signatures in opposition.
The Spanish Congress and Senate approved a weakened version of the original Statute of Autonomy on May 10th, 2016.
On June 18, 2006, after approval from Spain's Parliament, the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia was ratified by the Catalan people via referendum, featuring 49.41% turnout and 74% voting to approve the statute.
And then, well, nationalism always raises its head when the economy goes south, as people attempt to get off a sinking ship by any means necessary sometimes.
In 2008, Spain entered a five-year financial crisis, which led to increased regulation and recession, prompting the relatively prosperous Catalans to further question if they would be better off on their own.
Well, there's a south and north in Spain.
We'll get to that a little bit more.
It's to some degree analogous to Italy.
The north is richer, more prosperous, and it's bounced back more from the recession.
The south remains somewhat mired in the recession for a variety.
Now, Spain does have some not insignificant history with recessions and depressions, and this, I kid you not, is a fact.
Spain had a recession or depression that lasted for 400 years.
This occurred after the Spanish monarchy funded the invasion of the New World, of the Americas, and then, of course, they pillaged all the gold from the Mayans and the Incans and the natives and so on, and brought the gold back to Spain, which, because you had a massive increase in the amount of gold without an accompanying because you had a massive increase in the amount of gold without an accompanying increase in productivity, drove
The inflation then destroyed the middle class in Spain, destroyed the value of being a craftsman, of being an intellectual, and people fled Spain, thus turning it back over to the low-rent money seekers of the government, creating a multi-century recession.
And that's somewhat important to remember as a big economic scar on Spanish history.
On July 15, 2008, the Spanish government published data on the net fiscal contributions of all regions of the country.
Various analyses show that between 11.14 billion euros and 14.81 billion euros of Catalan taxes collected in 2005 were spent outside the region, amounting to between 6.6% to 8.7% of total Catalan amounting to between 6.6% to 8.7% of total Catalan GDP.
And I have taxes, so like, I don't know, 40%, 50%, who knows out there where it lands, but you can, to some degree, double these numbers in terms of the percentage of taxes that are spent outside of Catalan.
Now, Catalan, again, there's this north-south divide.
According to PISA scores, high school scores, people in the north are smarter.
Catalan, of course, in the north, and people in the south are less smart.
And so, Catalans are known for being industrious, are known for being good traders and merchants, and, you know, the sort of John Galt, so to speak, of the massive Atlas Shrugged experiment of the West at the moment, and they are...
Predictably and understandably annoyed and discouraged and dismayed and frustrated and angry that so much of their productive labor is being scooped up by the Spanish government, ripped out of Catalan and put into other regions in order to buy votes.
Make believe for equality.
So that is an important aspect of it.
I mean, there's culture, there's history.
And of course, this is why in the West, you're not allowed to have a culture, you're not allowed to have a history, because it promotes just this kind of in-group preference.
In the first quarter of 2009, Catalonia's unemployment rate hit 16%, over 10 points higher than just two years prior.
Now, there is some dispute over these numbers.
They're probably not perfect. Some people say that the unemployment rate is much higher in reality, just as in the States.
You know, if you stop looking for work, you're somehow considered not part of the unemployment numbers and so on, or even if you get a job that's crappy and far below what you had before, so...
On June 4th, 2009, the municipal council in the small town of Arenas de Munt voted in favor of a non-binding referendum on independence for Catalonia, but was stopped by a Spanish government court order forbidding municipal authorities from organizing the vote.
See, non-binding. It's just a rhetorical exercise, just a testing of the water, so to speak.
But no, not any of that, says the Spanish government.
So what they did was they held the vote outside of official offices.
By doing that, Ernest de Munt held the referendum on September 13th, 2009, asking, and I quote, Do you agree on Catalonia becoming an independent democratic and social state of law integrated in the European Union?
See, there's my first particular issue and question with all of this.
The North is a little bit more liberal.
South is a little bit more conservative.
But that's a complicated question.
But basically, I don't really get to see how you become an independent state and then in the European Union.
Choose one. You know, Madrid is closer than Brussels.
It might be somewhat important.
With 2,671 of 6,517 eligible voters, or 41%, participating, 2,569, or 96.2%, supported Catalan independence.
Due to extensive coverage from mainstream media outlets worldwide, the non-binding referendum had a considerable influence on Spanish politics, sparking additional phases of referendums through 2011.
On June 28, 2010, the Constitutional Court of Spain assessed the constitutionality of the 2006 Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia following four years of deliberations.
So they rewrote 14 articles and dictated the interpretation of 27 more relating to language, justice, and fiscal policy.
So, you're in the middle of a crippling recession slash depression, but it's a good thing you're examining all of this stuff, Supreme Court.
Also, four years after the...
Law was passed. The Supreme Court basically rewrites it.
What does that mean? Well, either you have a lot of judicial activism going on or the lawmakers have no idea what's constitutional and are writing massive amounts of unconstitutionality and so on.
And that seems somewhat important.
And the makeup of the Supreme Court had changed and so on.
The Atlantic wrote, The ruling struck down attempts to place the distinctive Catalan language above Spanish in the region, ruled as unconstitutional regional powers over courts and judges, and said, The interpretation of the references to Catalonia as a nation and to the national reality of Catalonia in the preamble of the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia have no legal effect.
Our words beat your words.
Our paper beats your paper.
University of Barcelona constitutional law lecturer, Argelia Queral Jimérez, I'm apologizing in advance for all my Spanish, pronunciation said, quote, it was understood as an act of contempt against the will of the Catalan people expressed by its parliament and a referendum.
On July 10, 2010, a Catalan autonomy protest occurred in central Barcelona, reminding people of a fairly good Freddie Mercury song, featuring between 425,000 and 1.5 million people united behind the motto, We are a nation!
We decide! The protest was in response to the Constitutional Court of Spain's decision to annul or reinterpret several articles of the 2006 Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia.
On November 28, 2010, Artur Mas was elected President of Catalonia, and on November 20, 2011, Mariano Rajoy became the Prime Minister of Spain.
On July 14th, 2012, Spain created FLA, a corrupt gator-infested swamp of random politics.
Sorry, not random politics.
FLA is a line of credit for regional government with lower interest rates than are available on the open market.
Here you can see the movement of politics.
Oh, are you thinking of independence?
Well, first we're going to try and bribe you, and only then will we bully you, if the bribery doesn't work.
So... There we go.
Here's some free money to stay in the country.
It's how Newfoundland became part of Canada.
Massive bribery bombs all along the godforsaken, formerly card-infested rock.
On August 29th, 2012, the government of Catalonia requested a 5 billion euro bailout to finance debt maturities, while warning Spanish President Mariano Rajoy that it would not accept the imposition of political conditions.
By the end of 2012, Catalonia received approximately 40% of all FLA funds.
So, yeah.
Hey, feel like leaving Spain?
We've got a lovely little slush fund for you to dip into and buy votes.
Beautiful. And this idea, well, we'll take your money, but no political conditions.
On September 11, 2012, another Catalan independence protest march occurred in central Barcelona, featuring between 600,000 and 2 million people.
That month, a significant number of Catalan towns declared themselves free Catalan territory, claiming that, quote, the Spanish legislation and regulations have effect only in Spain, so this town will wait for new legislation and regulation from the Catalan government and the parliament of Catalonia.
Pff. On September 20, 2012, Catalan President Artur Mas requested a funding deal similar to the arrangement with Basque Country, an autonomous community in Spain, which allows the regional government to collect taxes directly.
Prime Minister Rajoy rejected the idea, claiming it would be contrary to the constitution, but offered to discuss further renegotiations.
So it's interesting. So Catalan requests a funding deal similar to that which is in Basque country, allowing them to collect their taxes directly.
But Rajoy says, no, no, no, it's not constitutional.
It's fine for Basque, not fine for you.
I don't know. Just seems a little bit of a patchwork to me.
So dismissed by Rajoy in attempts to renegotiate tax collections on more favorable terms to Catalonia, President Artur Mas called for a snap election to seek support for a definitive independence referendum.
They are persistent, and we'll see why as we go forward.
On November 25th, 2012, 80% of seats in the Catalan Parliament went to pro-referendum parties.
On January 23, 2013, the Parliament of Catalonia adopted the Declaration of Sovereignty and of the Right to Decide of the Catalan People, which claimed, and I quote, the people of Catalonia have, by reason of democratic legitimacy, the character of a sovereign political and legal entity.
Oh, Jefferson, where art thou?
In accordance, said the declaration, in accordance with the democratically expressed will of the majority of the Catalan public, the Parliament of Catalonia initiates a process to bring to promote the right of the citizens of Catalonia to collectively decide their political future.
Worst bumper sticker ever.
In March 2013, 77% of the Catalan Parliament voted to negotiate an independence referendum with Spain.
On May 8, 2013, the Declaration of Sovereignty and of the Right to Decide of the Catalan People was suspended by the Constitutional Court of Spain.
On October 6, 2013, the Catalan branch of Rajoy's People's Party proposed a new funding agreement that would limit the amount of Catalonia taxes used to fund other Spanish regions.
The proposal to counter the pro-secessionist movement is rejected.
So here we have, to a large degree, a moderate who's trying to negotiate some aspects of sovereignty, and the court is rejecting it.
Now, when you keep rejecting moderate proposals, the fantasy is that everything goes away and everything goes back to the way you want it to be.
However, when you reject Moderate proposals yet generally get an escalation of absolutism, for better and or worse.
On December 12, 2013, President Artur Mas and the Government of Catalonia announced November 9, 2014, as the date for the latest independence referendum attempt.
The date was chosen to allow for discussions with the Spanish government to stage the consultation legally, but Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy vowed to legally oppose the vote and claimed that any discussion or debate on this is out of the question.
On April 8, 2014, Catalan Parliament representatives requested a referendum deal from Spanish Congress, but the suggestion was rejected 255 to 47.
In September 2014, Maas called for a non-binding independence referendum and again announced the vote would be held on November 9, 2014.
The Spanish government moved to block the referendum by appealing to the Constitutional Court of Spain, who provisionally suspended the vote.
Refusing to quit, the Catalan government announced a participation process of informal voting, but once again the Constitutional Court of Spain suspended the vote.
On October 22, 2014, the Constitutional Court of Spain suspended a Catalan law forbidding energy companies from cutting off services from low-income households during winter season, claiming it creates inequality between regions.
Additional Catalan regulations across a wide variety of issues would be suspended by the court in the next few years.
So they're attempting to do some local regional governance and they're being blocked all the way.
President Maas and the Catalan government defied the court and held the non-binding symbolic vote on November 9, 2014.
In the symbolic vote, Catalan residents were simply asked two questions.
A. Do you want Catalonia to become a state?
B. In case of affirmative answer, do you want this state to become independent?
Over 2.3 million Catalans participate in the referendum for a turnout of only 36%, but with 88.3% supporting independence.
Spanish Justice Minister Rafael Catalia said,"...the government considers this to be a day of political propaganda organized by pro-independence forces and devoid of any kind of democratic validity." See, it's almost 90% of people who are voting, supporting a particular thing, but it has no democratic validity.
Why? Because they're tax livestock in Catalonia.
Come on. If the cows come to the farmer and say, we'd like to go and set up our own separate farm and not be available to you for meat and muscle and milk, the farmer's not going to be very happy.
He'll give them some room to move around, but only because they'll bang their heads into a bloody infected oblivion like your average NFL player if they're kept in stalls too small.
So he'll let them roam around.
But if you're livestock, you have tax livestock, The next sector of freedom is not free-range.
It tends to be, well, you're put between two buns with some ketchup.
Catalan National Assembly leader, Carme Forcadell, said, Today we demonstrated to the world that the Spanish state isn't our state and that the Spanish justice system doesn't instill fear in us with their threats.
Despite attempting to avoid prosecution by staffing the vote with 30,000 volunteers, Mas was eventually charged with perverting the course of justice, misuse of public funds, and abuse of power related to the referendum.
Madrid's Camilla's Pontifical University professor of history, Emilio Sáenz-Franzas, said, Spanish Prime Minister Rajoy has an interest in keeping Mas, who is more moderate, at the helm of Catalonia.
It's time for big solutions, not just solutions that will carry each party to the next elections, but solutions that will do what's best for the country in 20 years.
Whoa! A professor of history making easily digestible pronouncements for people in public life about public issues that they care about?
Pinch me, pinch me!
Remember when the intellectuals used to help the people?
Ah, good times.
Long ago times, but good times.
On September 27, 2015, pro-Catalan independence parties won 48% of the total vote and secured an absolute majority.
The Atlantic wrote, Mars was forced to step aside after the elections in 2015, paving the way for Carles Puigdemont, the mayor of Girona, to take the helm of the region.
Again, the moderates are pushed aside and you get the absolutists and you get the escalation.
Puigdemont, who had advocated for Catalan independence long before it was popular, vowed to carry out a binding independence vote.
On April 20th, 2016, Catalonia President Carles Pigdemont proposed a negotiation on an independence referendum and 45 other issues.
Rajoy comments that he is open to negotiations on topics that require loyal cooperation and apparently repeated watchings of the Godfather as a warning.
On June 21st, 2016, Público published secret recordings indicating a conspiracy between Interior Minister Jorge Fernández Diaz and Catalan anti-corruption chief Daniel D'Alfonso to sabotage Catalan independence by fabricating news which would damage pro-independence parties and politicians.
Two points to that.
Number one, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia!
And number two, Politics, apparently, it's the same word in Spanish as it is in English.
At the end of 2016, 66% of Catalonia's public debt is owed to Spain through FLA funding.
Remember that slush fund? Oh, you're thinking of independence.
Let me give you the money bomb.
We're going to take all of our planes, which we'd use to fight forest fires, load them up with pallets of cash and drop them on you, Iraq-style.
On March 13, 2017, former Catalan President Artur Mas was barred from public office for two years and fined €36,500 by the High Court of Catalonia for his role in organizing the symbolic vote in 2014.
So, you tried some democracy, did you?
No more democracy for you!
On March 28th, 2017, Rajoy announces a 3.9 billion euros Catalonia infrastructure investment plan.
You're thinking of trying to get some independence?
Here's another money bomb. Here you go.
However, interesting, almost 4 billion euro investment.
Infrastructure investment plan.
But when Spain's 2017 budget is released days later, it is revealed that Catalan infrastructure spending decreases by almost 11% and total investment by 2.7%.
Bait and switch, bait and switch.
Spain's finance minister Cristobal Montero claims that the previously promised investment would occur in 2018 because he will gladly pay you Wednesday for a hamburger you will give him today.
On May 8th, 2017, Catalan Assembly President Carme Forcadell and four others face criminal trials for disobeying the Constitutional Court of Spain by allowing continued debate on the subject of independence.
Because there's some tasty free speech for you.
On June 9th, 2017, Catalan President Carlos Puigdemont announced plans for an October 1st, 2017 independence referendum.
On September 6th, 2017, Catalan Parliament passed the independence referendum into law, even including regulations regarding the transition to independence.
You know, I'm kind of getting the feeling that they really, really want to leave.
Sort of like the guy saying, hey, my date, really clawing at the walls of her basement prison.
Gotta get some lotion.
Following the expected legal challenge from the central government, calling the new laws the death of democracy, the Constitutional Court of Spain suspended the vote on September 7th, 2017.
You'll notice that's one day later.
Wow. You know, in many places, Supreme Court stuff takes years, but apparently when the tax livestock are chomping at the barbed wire and maybe getting out, you can get Supreme Court stuff done in one day.
One day? An amazing dedication to hard work.
On September 20, 2017, Spanish police arrested approximately a dozen Catalan officials for involvement in organizing the independence referendum.
Ordered An investigation into hundreds of Catalan mayors and seized 10 million ballot papers sparking massive protests.
The Spanish government also announced that it would partially take over control of Catalan finances after their government stopped submitting weekly expense reports.
Wow! Bad accounting from a government agency.
You should try that with the Pentagon and see how well that goes.
They're losing trillions of dollars every day behind their couches, it would seem.
Catalan politician Irene Regau said, This conflict is forcing elected officials to walk into a cul-de-sac and then deal with very difficult consequences.
Whatever you do, you will be punished, either by your citizenship or by the state.
On September 21, 2017, Spain's Constitutional Court announced that it will fine 22 Catalan electoral board members between €6,000 and €12,000 per day.
They failed to comply with the court order suspending...
See, sometimes they'll give you money to get you to do what they want, and sometimes they'll take away money to get you to do what they want.
If only there was some common denominator that should be in the hands of the free market.
On September 23rd, 2017, Spain's government announced measures to exert additional control over Catalonia police forces, but the regional government vowed to resist the new regulations.
On October 1, 2017, Spain braced itself for the Catalan independence referendum.
Resident Mireira Estape said, I'm here to fight for our rights and our language and for our right to live better and to have a future.
We will vote today.
Resident Blay Antonio said, The experience of being able to vote has given me a satisfaction I could never have dreamed of.
It would have been impossible Under Franco, although his heirs are still in power, Catalan independence is important so that we can live in a democracy which Spain isn't.
We send all our money to the government and get crumbs in return.
The oppressive police haven't come here yet but we still have the whole day ahead of us and they could come and steal the ballot boxes with our votes in them.
We just want to be able to vote free of the oppression of any state.
Resident Joaquin Ponce said, last time it was cardboard ballot boxes, this time they were real.
It was very emotional.
It would have been nice if we could all have stayed together in Spain, but the Madrid government has made it impossible.
It's sad, but that's the way it is.
It didn't take long for Spanish National Police decked out in full riot gear to interrupt the illegal referendum, forcibly removing people from polling places and absconding with ballot boxes.
Social media became littered with graphic photos and videos casting the Catalan people in a very sympathetic light as Spanish police beat voters with batons, shot crowds with rubber projectiles, and physically assaulted referendum participants in large numbers.
What the hell were they doing?
Did they think they were at some conservative gathering in America?
I don't know. Rubber projectiles?
I thought they were bullets to begin with, but they showed little balls and stuff.
For safe repressions, always use your rubber.
Spanish Interior Minister Juan Ignacio Zuedo proclaimed that the police were simply enforcing the court's order against the illegal referendum.
Now, don't get me wrong, he's kind of right.
But it could be argued that the court is pretty corrupt and is just trying to protect an income source, a significant income source for the Spanish government so that it can redistribute to others and now increasingly redistribute.
To migrants. Now, there are trillions and trillions of euros hanging in the balance of Catalan independence.
That is going to affect things.
And if they're so concerned about enforcing the law, the law must be obeyed, you must enforce the law.
I don't know, Spain, how about having borders?
Ooh, that's an idea.
Did you see there's a video out there of people in Spain enjoying a day on the beach and a horde of...
Migrants come swarming up and swarming up the beach and charging off, I guess, to the local welfare office and so on.
It's a little hard for me to accept at face value the Spanish government's relentless insistence on legality when, I don't know, do you feel like vetting some refugees and enforcing your borders?
I mean, what was it in Italy?
Only one or two percent of the people who landed were actually refugees.
Well, it seems that the law is selectively enforced and the outrage is entirely artificial.
It's just about the money.
Spain's highest representative in Catalonia, Enric Milo, said, The sole objective of today's operation has been to ensure that this illegal referendum does not take place, and the Spanish and Catalan people can continue to live in peace and liberty as they have these past 40 years.
The referendum has not taken place.
We will not accept that a government kidnapped by a minority imposes its ideas on society.
The headquarters of the Catalan government were searched by Guardia civil officers.
Pretty military and have a reputation for some assertiveness, let's say.
They disabled software which connected the polling stations, shut down online voting applications, and had various applications removed from online services.
Because they never heard of the blockchain.
Barcelona Mayor Ada Calor said, A cowardly president has filled our city with police.
Barcelona, city of peace, is not afraid.
Police action against the peaceful population must stop.
Today, in Catalonia and in the state, we have to demand it.
Hashtag resign Rajoy.
British commentator Brendan O'Neill said, In Spain, the powers that be seek to crush popular sentiment before it is even expressed.
In Britain, they try to crush it after.
It is expressed. Ramoners should look with horror and shame on this photo of a Spanish riot police officer physically removing a ballot box so that Catalan voters cannot have their say in the independence referendum, for it is only a rougher, more honest version of what they have been trying to do to our independence vote for the past 16 months.
Podemos leader Pablo Iglesias said, Bumps, shoves, old women dragged.
What the People's Party is doing to our democracy is repugnant to me.
Corrupt, hypocritical, useless.
Is this your victory, Mariano Rajoy?
If something breaks Spain, it will be because the PP and those who support it in Congress continue to destroy democracy.
Catalan President Carles Puigdemont said violence will not stop Catalans from voting.
Former Catalan President Artur Mas called on Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy to resign immediately and noted that, quote, Okay, Artur, I don't mean to shock you, but that is kind of the nature of the state.
What does it have at its disposal?
Does it have persuasion?
Does it have rhetoric?
Does it have logic? Does it have reason?
Does it have evidence? No.
It has batons and violence.
That's how taxes are collected.
That's how laws and regulations are enforced.
That's the nature of the beast.
Spanish Deputy Prime Minister Sorolla Sáenz de Santa María said, There hasn't been a referendum, nor the semblance of one.
Nothing good will come of this.
Catalan Foreign Minister Raúl Romeva said, We have initiated contacts with the EU about the violation of fundamental rights that puts the very same EU at risk.
We urge Europe's institutions to condemn the violence that European citizens are suffering.
Human Rights Watch researcher Kartik Raj said, While Spain's top court has ruled the Catalonia referendum should not go ahead, the state has a duty to protect the rights to peaceful assembly and free expression.
That applies equally to those who oppose independence and those who support it.
Where the police use force to deal with disturbances to public order, they should ensure that their actions are necessary and proportionate.
European Parliament Brexit chief Guy Verhofstadt said, I don't want to interfere in the domestic issues of Spain, but I absolutely condemn what happened today in Catalonia.
On one hand, the separatist parties went forward with a so-called referendum that was forbidden by the constitutional court, knowing all too well that only a minority would participate as 60% of the Catalans are against separation.
He went on to say, and on the other hand, even when based on court decisions, the use of disproportionate violence to stop this, in the European Union we try to find solutions through political dialogue and with respect for the constitutional order as enshrined in the treaties, especially in Article 4.
It's high time for de-escalation.
Only a negotiated solution in which all political parties, including the opposition in the Catalan Parliament, are involved and with respect to the constitutional and legal order of the country is the way forward.
It would be nice if people were nice, but when they have fundamentally opposing perspectives, when the people in Catalan want to keep their money and keep control over their own affairs, and the central government in Madrid wants the opposite, sorry, it's not going to be pleasant.
Catalan government spokesperson Jordi Turl said, What the police are doing is a real scandalous savagery.
The Spanish state is in a very difficult situation before the world.
What the police is doing is truly an international embarrassment.
Spanish Prime Minister Mariana Rajoy said, Today there has not been a self-determination referendum in Catalonia.
The rule of law remains in force with all its strength.
We are the government of Spain, and I am the head of the government of Spain, and I accept my responsibility.
We have done what was required of us.
Right? The rule of law remains in force with all its strength, except for vetting and borders.
Because those don't matter.
What would they matter? Who cares?
He went on to say, We have acted, as I have said from the beginning, according to the law, and only according to the law.
And we have shown that our democratic state has the resources to defend itself from an attack as serious as the one that was perpetrated with this illegal referendum.
Today, democracy has prevailed because we have obeyed the Constitution.
Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy went on to say, It would have been easier for everyone to look the other way.
The referendum was a real attack on the rule of law, to which the state reacted with firmness and serenity.
Serenity? I think you might be confusing your semi-police state with a Firefly movie, but let's continue.
He went on to say, The responsibility for these acts solely and exclusively falls on those who promoted the rupture of legality and coexistence.
The vast majority of the people of Catalonia did not want to participate in the secessionist script.
They have shown that they are law-abiding people and quietly ignored the call to vote.
All Spaniards value their attitude.
We cannot allow the progress of the past 40 years to be replaced by blackmail.
Today we all have reasons to trust our democracy.
This only served to hurt our coexistence.
I offer dialogue within law.
I expect them, Catalans, to renounce what they have done so far.
The Department of Health reported that 761 people were injured due to confrontations with Spanish police and the resulting civil unrest related to the referendum.
Two individuals were seriously hurt and remain in Barcelona hospitals, while at least 10 police officers were also injured.
Out of a possible 5.3 million voters in the region, 2,262,424 people voted in the referendum for a turnout of 42%.
Now, that compares to like 58% for an American presidential election recently.
However, I mean, two reasons why the turnout may have been somewhat low.
Number one... Riot police can tend to have a slight disincentive on going to exercise this particular right, particularly when you know ahead of time that that right is not going to be recognized by the Spanish government.
So fear of violence and significant indications of the futility of the vote may have driven somewhat of a low turnout.
An estimated 770,000 votes were lost due to disruption or seizure by the Spanish police in 79 of the 2,315 polling stations were closed.
With just over 2 million yes votes, or 90% of the total, and 176,565 no votes, the Catalan voters overwhelmingly supported independence.
See? You can vote for everything except freedom.
The regional government previously promised to officially declare independence within 48 hours of the referendum with the results of the election being sent to the parliament.
Catalan President Carles Pigdemont said, On this day of hope and suffering, Catalonia's citizens have earned the right to have an independent state in the form of a republic.
My government, in the next few days, will send the results of the vote to the Catalan Parliament, where the sovereignty of our people lies, so that it can act in accordance with the law of the referendum.
We have earned the right to be listened to, respected and recognized.
The Spanish government has today written a shameful page in its relationship with Catalonia.
We Catalans have earned the right to be heard in Europe.
Due to the police crackdown and ensuing violence, over 40 Catalan unions and associations have called for a region-wide strike on October 3, 2017 to protest the grave violation of rights and freedoms.
Pope Francis said, Don't be afraid of unity.
May special interests and nationalism not render the courageous dreams of the founders of the European Union in vain.
So, no nationalism from the Pope.
Now, of course, it was nationalism that drove out the caliphate, but that's a story for another time.
The European Commission said, Under the Spanish constitution, yesterday's vote in Catalonia was not legal.
For the European Commission, as President Juncker has reiterated repeatedly, this is an internal matter for Spain that has to be dealt with in line with the constitutional order of Spain.
We also reiterate the legal position held by this commission as well as by its predecessors.
If a referendum were to be organized in line with the Spanish constitution, it would mean that the territory leaving would find itself outside of the European Union.
Beyond the purely legal aspects of this matter, the Commission believes that these are times for unity and stability, not divisiveness and fragmentation.
Sorry, that's right.
This is a time for positive adjectives, not negative adjectives.
This is a time for goodness, not badness.
For upness, not downness.
For rightness, not wrongness.
Ooh, just about Cicero right there.
Sorry, Commission went on to say, we call on all relevant players to now move very swiftly from confrontation to dialogue.
Violence can never be an instrument in politics.
We trust the leadership of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy to manage this difficult process in full respect of the Spanish Constitution and of the fundamental rights of citizens enshrined therein.
So, well, I mean, it's a little tricky for the EU. Spain is an EU member.
Catalonia is not an EU member, so naturally the EU is going to support Spain over Catalonia.
And there are a number of separatist movements within Europe, and of course the EU opposes them all on principle.
If there is some way forward for Catalonia to achieve independence, it's possible that But challenging.
So that's a big threat to the EU. It's a bigger threat to the EU in a way than Brexit was.
Brexit was legal, and this may not be, quote, legal according to the Spanish constitution and what seems to me a significantly activist Spanish constitution.
Supreme Court. So it means that people can go for it.
And of course, if Brexit fails, as it seems to be in the process of doing, since to a large degree Brexit was about immigration and it's not being touched, nothing's moving forward.
See, when the government wants to increase taxes, it happens like that.
When they're going to grant some particular liberty, which they don't want to, well, you see, it's just going to take a long, long time.
So, yeah, if people look at Brexit...
And see it failing.
And people look at Catalonia if it achieves independence and see it succeeding outside the framework of the rule of law.
Well, that's going to hit some gas in directions that the EU does not want people to go.
So, what's happening?
Well, it's the Atlas Shrugged story.
So, there's this thing called the Program for International Student Assessment, a piece of scores.
In Spain, the further north you go, the higher these scores are.
And it's not insignificant. I don't know if that's the—because in the South there was a caliphate up until the 15th century.
I don't know. But there are smarter people in the North, more economically productive, richer, and therefore with more resources to pillage and take from the North to the South.
So you have the self-interest of the smart people who wish to detach themselves from the increasing predation through the welfare state and through other income redistribution programs of the people who are less intelligent and less successful.
Because it can't work, right?
I mean, if you give smart people lots of money, they tend to have fewer kids.
If you give less smart people lots of money, they tend to have more kids.
And in a democracy, this means that the less intelligent gain more and more power until when, right?
Now, this idea that there's this rule of law, I mean, I just, I don't buy it at all.
They're not enforcing the borders.
They're not vetting the, quote, refugees, the migrants and all of that.
And they're not really enforcing the laws about any of that.
I mean, to be a refugee, you have to stay in the country you first land in.
How many people are coming from other places into Spain?
Are they enforcing their borders?
No. Why? Because migrants are going to vote for the left.
And that is about taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor.
Whereas the Catalaners want to leave.
And so that's rich people taking their resources, which the government wants to pillage to buy votes.
So it is around that particular issue.
They're not going to stop.
Catalonia recognizes what's going on, and the migrant crisis may be driving it more.
May be driving it more.
And so we have this unstoppable force meeting this immovable object.
It is going to escalate from here.
Because people in Catalonia are good at business and good at trade and good at finances and high IQ in general, according to indications, they can count and they can look at the national debt of Spain.
It's over a trillion euros, like 1.2, 1.3 trillion US dollars.
So that is around 23,000 euros per citizen.
The Spanish debt, to put that in context and perspective, is about 107% of GDP at the moment.
And so the idea that it's just going to magically will its way out of this recession when it's taking on a bunch of Migrants who are going to end up on welfare and you have people attempting to break free of this descending quasi-socialist state from hell, it's going to increase this.
Just to get a sense of the Spanish debt.
Well, what does it mean? So, if you take, like, dollar bills representing this debt and you wrap it around the earth, it would go around the earth over 4,900 times.
Let's take another way of looking at it.
You take these dollar bills, just, you know, really, really flat, lay them on top of each other, and they make a pile 137,659 kilometers tall, or 85,537 miles high.
So, that's... That's pretty big.
Something very powerful is happening here as well.
Law, in its current context, its state context, law politically is a kind of religion.
You know, if you're religious and you look at a religious text, it has special power and meaning to you.
It has the capacity to dictate your actions, your thoughts, what hits you in those sleepless nights.
Your conscience is modified and affected.
If you stop believing in that God, if you stop believing in that religion, then they're just old words on a page.
They have no particular power to compel you.
You may have some reverence for them as part of your history and so on, but they do not have a living power to affect your daily decisions.
So law is a kind of religion, and if people stop believing in it, it ceases to have power.
Now, Christianity, at least, does not have...
Armed police to enforce its edicts.
That's for other religions.
But when people stop believing in the law, they stop self-regulating according to the magic spell called the law, then the troops are going to have to come in, and the truncheons are going to have to swing, and the power of the state is revealed for what it is.
Everything the state does is backed up by the threat of coercion.
That's what makes it different from a charity.
That's what makes it different from a church in the West.
So, here's the big fundamental question.
Europe has, for a long time, been largely self-governed by people's respect for the law.
Now, here we have in Catalonia people looking at the Supreme Court of Spain and saying, don't care.
Your words don't beat my passion.
Your letters don't beat my history.
Your paper does not set fire to my freedoms.
This is the real threat.
This is why I must be repressed, attacked, and opposed.
What happens when people stop respecting the rule of law?
I have a bad feeling.
▲
Export Selection