Sept. 22, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:04:54
3832 The Collapse of South Africa | Dan Roodt and Stefan Molyneux
The mere mention of South Africa in a discussion provokes deep images of institutional racism, discrimination and horrific violence. Stefan Molyneux is joined by Dan Roodt for a look at the controversial history of South Africa, the untold story of Apartheid, bureaucratic incompetence leading to significant shortages, massive government corruption, and the growing possibility of civil war. Dan Roodt is a well-known Afrikaner commentator and the author of many books including “Raiders of the lost Empire: South Africa's 'English' Identity,” “The Scourge of the ANC,” and “Johannesburg In Five.” Roodt also founded the Pro-Afrikaans Action Group (PRAAG) in 2000.PRAAG: http://www.praag.co.zaTwitter: http://www.twitter.com/danroodtYour support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Free Domain Radio.
I hope you're doing well. I have an essential conversation for you to listen to.
We are here with Dan Root. He is a well-known Africana commentator and the author of many books, including Raiders of the Lost Empire, South Africa's English Identity, The scourge of the ANC, the African National Congress, and Johannesburg in five.
Root also founded the Pro-Africans Action Group, PRAAG, in the year 2000, and you can find out more about that organization at praag.co.za.
And you can follow Dan on Twitter at twitter.com forward slash Dan Root, and that's R-O-O-D. T. Dan, thank you so much for taking the time today.
Thank you very much Stefan.
So I have visited South Africa twice when I was younger and I remember getting embroiled in the late 80s and the early 90s at a time when the Western media was hysterically denouncing South Africa and its white rule in truly apocalyptic downright Nazi terms and I remember having debates saying It's complicated.
It's complex. You know, one man, one vote, one person, one vote is most likely to end up with tribal warfare, with the decay of the economy, and certainly with a pillaging of the past resources built up by white rule And a resulting collapse in the currency.
I wonder if you could help people to understand why South Africa was so central to the narrative in the 80s and 90s and why it has vanished from Western consciousness and the Western media as the promised land has failed to materialize.
Well, I think it also has to do with the evolution of Western society post-war.
During the 1960s, we had the famous kind of leftward turn in the West and the rise of all the counterculture movements, hippie movements, and also, especially in Europe, you had a lot of Marxism, leftism, even Maoism coming through the 1968 student uprising in Paris.
And I think that particular generation of politicians or young people, they then moved into positions of power towards the late 70s and early 80s.
We also had somebody like Jimmy Carter in the US, you know, who was in powers in the late 70s.
And that gave an impetus to this whole anti-South African campaign.
And it was an orchestrated propaganda campaign against South Africa, and I think it must be one of the few examples where a country or a regime, rather, such as we had, capitulated simply because of a kind of a propaganda onslaught or a kind of a semantic war To use a term kind of popularized recently by Marine Le Pen,
which I quite like, you know, the notion of a semantic war that you're actually changing the meanings and simply through manipulating messages and media, can you actually bring down an entire country?
And that's exactly what happened in South Africa.
And, you know, I think our people, the Afrikaners, We're quite naive in certain respects, and they completely underestimated this whole propaganda thing.
And they thought that if they did the right thing and built enough hospitals and schools and so on for black people, and they also had a strong enough army that they could withstand any form of assault on us.
And they saw the The main thrust of the anti-South African campaign coming from the ex-Soviet Union, Eastern Europe and China to a lesser extent.
But I think they never envisaged that it would come mostly from the Western countries and the core Western countries, USA, UK, France, the Netherlands and of course Scandinavia.
Scandinavia actually financed the whole thing almost single-handedly.
In fact, in 2004, the Swedish ambassador was on the radio here in South Africa and he said on air that without Sweden, the ANC would never have come to power.
And I think he was very much right and I expected some sort of At least media attention to that statement after he'd made it, but there was just deadly silence afterwards.
But I think you can still quote him on that, and I perfectly agree with that.
Right. Now let's talk a little bit about the relationship between the ANC and communism.
And I've talked in a number of presentations about how the communists almost, as soon as they seized power in the brutal deposition or deposing of the Romanovs, they immediately set about attempting to use racial tensions in the West to begin to destabilize the West.
And not many people understand the relationship between communism And what has been called the Civil Rights Movement, but it seems very explicit with the ANC. Oh, yes.
You know, ironically, the ANC was almost a front for the Communist Party.
And in fact, there was a famous kind of gathering around about 1968 in Tanzania.
As far as I know, it was a Kind of a game reserve there called Mohorohoro, and the Tanzanian government under Julius Nyerere had put it at the disposal of the ANC to have the conference because they hadn't actually met in years.
And the entire movement was in fact moribund.
I mean, in the 1964 famous or infamous Ravonia trial in Mandela and Goldberg and all these people were jailed.
After that, the whole thing petered out and there were only a few exiled ANC members and Communist Party members left overseas who'd actually fled the country.
And the whole thing was being kept alive by a grant from the Soviet Embassy in London.
The Soviet Embassy Was giving them £30,000 a year to keep the entire thing going.
And I mean, you probably, and anybody would realise that, I mean, you can't overthrow a kind of a medium-sized power like South Africa was at the time with £30,000 per annum.
I mean, you wouldn't get very far at all.
I mean, that hardly paid for, I mean, the salaries of the main figures in the movement.
But in 1968, they had that meeting in Mahorohoro, and apparently some members of the ANC were actually ready to throw in the towel.
And one of the members of the Communist Party was actually saying that, I mean, we're talking about a war against South Africa and overthrowing the regime and revolution and so on, but it's all just a big fantasy.
And up to now, we haven't shown any proof of that or we haven't really struck any blow Against South Africa at all.
But then, you know, Joe Slovo, who was the stalwart of the South African Communist Party, actually foreign-born, he was born in Lithuania, only came to South Africa at the age of 10 or 11, and then got involved in kind of trade unions in Johannesburg and the Communist Party.
From the 1940s onwards, he also had a wife called Ruth First, He was also a raving communist.
Her dad was also a communist.
In fact, her dad might have been...
I'm not sure if he was the leader of the party or one of the leaders, but he was very active in the communist movement in South Africa at the time.
But in 1968, yeah, they were ready to actually stop the whole thing and can it.
And then Joe Slovo stood up and said, no, no, you know, he was just right...
Write up a document and we'll get funding and eventually we'll get the whole thing going again.
And then it sort of ended on a slightly more optimistic note.
But in fact, if it hadn't been for the Swedish money that started flying soon afterwards, because Olof Palmer came to power in 68 in Sweden and there was a small group of communists in South Africa Including the Nobel Prize winning author Nadine Gordemer, who was part of that circle.
And there was also a Swedish journalist by the name of Para Vestbag.
And they together persuaded Olof Palme and the Swedish parliament eventually to vote this secret budget for the ANC. And then the money started flowing and they could You know, use it for propaganda and eventually, I mean, they had these sort of so-called military training camps in a few African countries, in Tanzania, but also in Zambia later on.
But they never actually managed to, you know, to muster any sort of military challenge to South Africa.
It was all on the level of urban terror and propaganda.
And I mean terrorism is sometimes described as propaganda through deeds and you know when you place a bomb in a supermarket or something it causes a lot of publicity and you know it has a great effect on the population and that was the whole purpose of that kind of warfare.
In fact fairly recently I'd Coming to contact with an elderly lady, she was liberal.
She's sort of become more conservative now, but her father was a liberal politician in the 1950s in South Africa.
He was a member of parliament.
I think his surname was Friedman.
And she explained to me that she'd had some contact with these communists in the 50s in Johannesburg and one of them had come to her father's house and told him about this new form of warfare which entailed both propaganda and urban terrorism and whether he wouldn't like to join up with the movement, but he then declined.
But there was a whole discussion Apparently going on at the time and they eventually, shortly after 1960, decided on doing this because they couldn't really get much popular support at all in South Africa and in the 1960s.
Economically, we were so successful, there was full employment in the country and there weren't any real grievances.
Among most of the population, except now for, in a sort of an abstract philosophical way, the whole system as it was at that time, which wasn't entirely democratic.
There was a kind of democratic system for whites, and to a lesser extent for colours and Indians, but apart from the black homelands, the urban blacks were excluded from the whole voting system, although they could vote For municipalities.
But eventually, even this kind of inchoate democratic system was also sabotaged by the revolutionary movement in that they started attacking anyone who participated in the official structures and elections and so on.
And they literally killed or murdered town councillors and so on.
There was another very interesting book by A lady called Dr.
Anthea Jeffrey. And she still works as a researcher for the local Institute for Race Relations, which is a kind of a liberal think tank in South Africa that has existed for years.
I mean, I've even got some of the reports going back to the 1930s.
And she wrote a book entitled People's War.
And this was the concept that The ANC and the Communist Party apparently had studied in North Vietnam towards 1978 or so.
Well, Vietnam was then ruled, of course, by the revolutionaries after the fall of Saigon in 1973.
And they explained to them that the main thrust of your warfare was not against the enemy, but against your own people.
That you have to, by means of terror and intimidation, You have to kill anyone who goes against your ideas and your movement.
And anybody who's critical and also who cooperates with a so-called enemy, those people should be targeted.
And that's how they also devised this so-called necklace method of executing people by placing a tire around their necks and dowsing it With petrol, gasoline, and then setting it to light, and up to 400 people were killed like that in various black townships around South Africa.
But eventually, you know, the propaganda campaign wore on, and it ultimately overwhelmed the old National Party.
I think P.W. Buerto, who was the last President to actually offer resistance to this but he started getting a lot of flack from the local media as well and then he was eventually betrayed by his own cabinet and they went against him and he had to resign and he was then replaced by Mr.
de Klerk who went the whole hog as they say and you know simply handed power on a plate to To the ANC and the Communist Party.
Well, but to be fair, he didn't think he was doing that.
I mean, he, I think, was delusional enough about race relations to imagine that the blacks were all going to vote for him and it was going to continue as before.
And of course, that was the ideal.
Nobody claimed that they wanted to destroy South African prosperity or destroy rights for the white minority and so on.
It was, of course, supposed to improve everything.
And de Klerk does seem to have really believed all of that stuff.
Yes, I think you're quite right.
He had a sense of his own omnipotence, which I think was caused partially by the huge wave of publicity he got when he took the step of releasing Mandela and unbanning the ANC and the Communist Party.
And then he turned into a kind of darling of the Western media.
And one of the local journalists also told me once that during the negotiations in the early 1990s, the main negotiator of the National Party, Ruf Mayer, who actually eventually did join the ANC, He was more concerned with communicating with the foreign media than with the local media.
The local journalists couldn't get an interview with him, but if you were from the Financial Times or the New York Times or the Guardian in London, you know, he would leave everything and speak to you right there and then.
So they were trying to please the foreign media more than anything else.
And, I mean, they swallowed This whole notion of, you know, the integrated multicultural society that was being bandied about at the time and that had already shown,
you know, all sorts of cracks and fissures in the USA. And I think the other thing that has often occurred to me is that we didn't have television until about 1976.
So, which in a way was very good for us because we spent our time reading and listening to the radio and going to the opera and things like that.
You know, we had a much more traditional culture because we didn't have TV. But in 76, we then got it and shortly after that, of course, the Soweto riots broke out and I think the government didn't realize what sort of explosive Potential,
these images of police, you know, the police confronting crowds of black people and shooting and violence and blood and so on would cause overseas.
And even though that wasn't planned at all by the ANC and the SACP, I mean, to them it was just a windfall that came to them.
But we didn't really, we weren't that aware Of the preceding history in the USA during the 1960s when they had race riots and the effect that had in the USA. So I think they should have been a lot more prepared for that kind of thing and kind of anticipated it.
But when it happened, they were quite unprepared.
And that's also why there was, you know, an unfortunate loss of life also during the riots, which was then Used to point fingers at the government and just how fascist and Nazi-like and so on they were.
And, of course, there was that famous picture of Hector Peterson, which, you know, was sent all over the world.
But apparently the same photographer had taken pictures the very same day or the next day of a white policeman, as far as I recall, Who was himself massacred, well, he was slaughtered on the spot.
And he took pictures of that, but those pictures never made it into print anywhere.
Well, of course, I mean, every time there's white-on-black violence, it is shot to the very top, page one, top of the fold.
But black-on-white violence must be ruthlessly suppressed, even though these statistics are far greater in the West.
And, ironically, you know, Hector Peterson, in that famous photo, he was shot by a black policeman.
Almost by accident because he'd wandered into the line of fire between some rioters and these policemen.
So he wasn't shot by a white policeman, but of course the black policeman was seen as acting on behalf of the white minority government, so-called.
Now let's talk a little bit about South Africa in the past because a lot of people who think of it think of it as the pariah nation outside the bounds of the West, outside the Western tradition, rejected and scorned by European civilization and its derivatives.
But this is not the case.
It was an honored member of the West, of course, as I pointed out in your videos.
South African troops have fought in both of the World Wars and other conflicts, and there were good trade relations, good cultural relations.
The turning of the West on South Africa is a relatively recent phenomenon for the previous set of a couple of centuries.
This was not the case at all.
Yes, you're quite right.
In fact, I would say that it really started in the early 1960s, and especially during the The tenure of Dr.
Favurte. He was a very competent man and, you know, you might not agree with him, but he had this notion of so-called separate development and that blacks should be developed in their own areas and using their own culture and there shouldn't be a blanket westernization of Africans.
And in some respects, his ideas correspond to what some of the more radical black nationalists are saying today and what they've been saying for quite a number of years.
But there was even a visit by the Russian-born composer Stravinsky, who then lived in the USA in around 1962, and he performed here And then there were voices on the sort of more or less on the left or the extreme liberal wing of the opposition at the time who said that he shouldn't come to South Africa,
you know. But there weren't any boycotts.
There weren't any sports boycotts.
That only started in the 1970s, really.
And I think it sort of reached a high point in the 1980s.
But of course, Reagan fended off sanctions on South Africa and his presidential veto was overturned in the USA at the behest of the Black Caucus in America.
And in fact, the Republicans went against their own president and voted with the Black Caucus.
In order to overturn his presidential veto against sanctions on South Africa.
But coming back to the issue of South Africa being part of the Western system, you know, yes, throughout the 20th century, we were part of the Western system.
We were part of the founding of the British Commonwealth in 1931.
We had one of the Boer War generals, Jan Smuts, he was a very brilliant man.
He was the first person in the UK to pass both law examinations at Cambridge in one year.
It was kind of an astounding feat.
He was almost a genius.
And he fought, you know, on the Boer side, he was actually the state attorney of the Transvaal Republic at the time.
But after the war, and especially when we became, when we got self-rule again in 1910, he became more pro-British because he'd studied in the UK at Cambridge.
And eventually he became one of the major Figures in the British Commonwealth and in fact you can even now find it online.
There's black and white footage during the Second World War of a meeting of both Houses of Parliament in the UK being addressed by Smuts and where Churchill introduces him and then he gets a standing ovation from both the House of Lords And the lower house in Britain,
and they looked up to him as one of the leaders in the Western world.
And he is reputed also, because he was a lawyer by training, he was reputed to also have been very active in drafting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Constitution of the United Nations.
So, from that moment onwards, where we were seen as part of the family of Western nations, we fell, as you put it, into this abyss where we were considered to be a pariah state.
And that was purely the effect of this huge propaganda campaign that was deliberately being orchestrated against us.
In the Western media, and of course there were intelligence agencies involved as well, and especially the East German intelligence agency, because there was, you know, I read Joe Slovo's biography not so long ago, a few years ago, and there was a lot of contact between Joe Slovo and Markus Wolf, who was the head of the East German intelligence at the time.
And they also devised this whole strategy of, you know, undermining South Africa's image in the world and also setting up some sort of counterintelligence network to our intelligence network.
And they also supplied them with explosives and detonators and so on for their terrorism campaign in South Africa.
We had about 200 terrorist incidents.
So it's very ironic today, you know, that truck that killed the people in Stockholm, where Sweden is now experiencing terror firsthand, but during the 70s and 80s, they were actually financing it against us here in South Africa.
Well, this kind of blowback is something I want to get to in a few minutes.
And just when I was watching your...
Interviews and reading some of your articles, Dan, before this conversation, it struck me when you were talking about how the ANC took over in 1994.
1994 was, of course, when the ANC took over chief political power in South Africa.
It was also the year that The Bell Curve was published, the book by Herrnstein and Murray, talking about racial differences in IQ. And one of the great challenges is that, of course, the communists say, well, everyone's equal and the only reason that there are inequalities is due to oppression.
Now, if you accept that standpoint that everyone's just kind of one big blob, you know, we're all chess pieces that are pawns, there's no kings, no bishops or anything like that.
Then the only differences in outcome, in wealth or political influence can result from exploitation.
And so if you take that Marxist paradigm, then you look for the countries with the greatest wealth disparities and you say, aha, this must be where there is the most exploitation.
And that I think was what drove the ANC and it drives the communist world model.
The other explanation, which is actually founded in IQ science and genetic research and brain size measurements and so on, It's to say, well, there are discrepancies in IQ within groups, within whites, within blacks, and between groups as well.
It doesn't allow you to judge any individual, but when you zoom out enough, you can look at the big picture.
And one of the explanations is to say, well, in sub-Saharan Africa, blacks have an average IQ of 70, which means that if you give them equal votes to whites who have an average IQ of 100, you are going to end up with a much shorter time preference, much more corruption, many more problems in your society.
And the blacks, of course, had been running to some degree South Africa for tens of thousands of years before the whites came along.
Hadn't achieved a whole lot.
The whites come along and their standard of living increases for the blacks.
Number of blacks increases because of better farming methods, they have better access to modern medicine, infant mortality goes down, which is I think why you were talking about there were few problems in the 50s and 60s.
And of course when I was there, I remember talking to people saying one of the big problems is that blacks are desperate to get into South Africa from other black-run countries.
So these two explanations of human disparities, one being the bell curve and the other being communism, I think came to a head in 1994, and I think people's unwillingness to admit that Ernstine and Murray made a very good case, a solid case that was later verified by the American Psychological Association and has been verified endlessly ever since,
people seem to want to reject that science and reject that basic reality and return back to this platonic dream of human egalitarianism that when implemented so often results in tyranny and dysfunction.
In fact, always, I think.
Yes, well, you know, you've touched on quite a controversial topic there, but it's a very interesting one.
You know, I went to a university here in Johannesburg called the University of the Witwatersrand, which is also sort of like, I don't know, some sort of Marxist re-education camp when I was there.
It was just amazing.
In fact, In the first year, our set text in political science was the State in Capitalist Society, which was written by one Ralph Miliband, who was a friend of Joe Slobo's.
In fact, his two sons, Ed and David, later became very prominent figures in British politics on the Labour Party side.
But in fact, I'd never heard of this notion that there were differences in IQ between blacks and whites.
And it was only when I read the first review of the bell curve in the Wall Street Journal, and I was really intrigued by this.
And then one weekend, I got the flu, and I couldn't sleep And as it happened, I bought the last hardcover copy of the Bell Curve at the bookshop, at the shopping center near where I lived.
And I read the thing through in one sitting, you know, all thousand pages of it or whatever.
And it was absolutely fascinating.
And yes, and it did give me some insight into the role of intelligence and IQ in life.
And even among, you know, even among Europeans, you know, it stands to reason that there's only a small percentage of really gifted people in society who turn into rocket scientists or inventors and brilliant engineers and so on.
Yeah, and in South Africa, of course, I mean, there's constant talk of the inequality and the persistent inequality in South Africa, even though Whites are now being deliberately excluded from the job market and being deliberately impoverished.
If you're a white person today without some sought-after university degree, only with high school diploma, then you won't find a job.
You'll have to then become an entrepreneur or you'll have to work in a small business, perhaps run by other white people or relatives or so on.
And a lot of those people fall through the cracks and they end up in slums and so-called squatter camps.
But the notion that blacks could, you know, without the shackles of segregation and apartheid and so on, within a few years they would turn into academic stars and you would have A narrowing of the so-called achievement gap that you also have in the USA between blacks and whites.
That was very persistent here in liberal thinking.
I just wanted to drop in a data point for people to sort of track this.
It's controversial insofar as it upsets people.
It's not controversial scientifically.
I've had so many experts on this show going through the data.
It is as controversial as the world being a sphere, but it's upsetting to people.
But if you compare, say, the Ashkenazi Jews who were fleeing Europe after hundreds and hundreds of years of persecution, after a Holocaust and so on, they fled to North America.
Ashkenazi Jews have the highest It took them four years.
Arriving penniless with no possessions, arriving in North America, it took them four years to achieve income parity with the native population.
And if you look, of course, at the Japanese and the Chinese, they do very well in the supposedly endlessly racist white society because they have higher IQs than whites on average.
So it is one of these things that puts the world in focus But it is very disturbing to a lot of people who have this leftist idea that it is all environment and all your relationship to political power and the means of production.
That's all that produces human disparity.
That is a fantasy that has taken so many blows from both science and reason and empirical evidence.
And it seems to be almost impossible for some people to even begin to question this fantasy, let alone start to let go of it.
And, you know, we'll talk about the consequences for Europe.
And the canary in the coal mine idea, but our unwillingness and inability to talk about this basic reality is absolutely astonishing, and it's almost like people would choose rather to lose their entire civilization than bring up scientific facts.
Yes, I think quite a few people have actually compared this to, you know, the situation when Right about, you know, in the 15th century when Galileo was making the point about the earth revolving around the sun.
And, you know, the church denounced that and eventually was forced to recant on his doctrine.
But then Pascal, the famous French theologian and philosopher, said that if the earth moves, A decree from Rome is not going to stop it.
So, you know, no matter how much, you know, left liberal hysteria there is around these issues, it's not going to change the reality.
And you can see, I mean, people in South Africa these days, even in our liberal media and so on, they are talking about the failure of education, so-called, and the collapse of education and so on.
And, I mean, a lot of these figures are Are not published and it's kind of kept secret almost.
But if you speak to teachers who are involved in the education system and so on, the math grade, the average math grade in Soweto is about 20%.
And they've even now introduced a dumbed-down form of math called math literacy.
And you don't have to do real mathematics at all, but you do stuff like, I mean, I don't know, like really elementary school arithmetic and just talking a little bit about, you know, your income and how much you pay for your rent per month and that sort of stuff.
And even that has got a very low pass rate.
And you find that among the more demanding sort of courses at university, I mean, the black admission rate is very, very low.
And in fact, what's quite interesting too is that some of the foreign Africans from other African countries up north A lot more of them get admission to some of our university courses than the local blacks, because I think they are genetically quite a bit different to them.
And, you know, they've also lived in countries where the Arabs have been active for centuries and so on, or Indians and so on.
So they might not be...
They're not of the same kind of genetic stock as our local Bontu-speaking I remember way back in college, in the course of race relations, pointing out to the teacher that in America, West African blacks have a higher per capita income than whites, if America is so racist.
But of course, the very smartest and most able of the West African blacks were the ones who emigrated to the West and did enormously well.
So, you know, there's so much data pushing back against this pure environmentalist, purely relation to political power, means of production narrative, as to explain Inequality, how much reality do you have to reject to not even examine this?
And this is why I've been talking about this over and over again, because we do have to follow the truth wherever it leads.
We do have to follow facts, reason, evidence, and science wherever it may lead, because societies which reject reality do not last for very long.
Yes, exactly. And you can see, I mean, if you look at a place like the Congo, for example, What's now called the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which was a fairly prosperous country when the Belgians were still there.
But from the moment when they were kicked out and the nuns were raped and there was a terrible violence in the early 60s, I mean, that country has never recovered from that.
It's still mired in civil war and degradation and corruption.
It's literally a jungle.
You know, the infrastructure has gone to pieces.
And Mozambique was the same thing.
You know, there are all these pictures all over the internet of buildings and hotels and so on that the Portuguese built in Mozambique.
And just after the Civil War there and, you know, a decade or two of Afro-Marxist rule under Samora Michel, It was almost as if Mozambique had returned to the early Iron Age, where they were before the Portuguese set foot there.
It's a very strange thing to think.
Being a philosopher means always being sorry that you're right.
I wish all of this had been wrong.
It would have been wonderful, of course, if the poverty between the black communities in Africa had been the result of colonialism.
I think it would have been wonderful in many ways.
Because then, when the British and the Belgians and the French, when they left Africa, then these countries could have flourished.
They could have done well. They could have contributed to world culture, world science, world literature, world civilization, and so on.
That would have been great.
But, of course, the result has been that as the Europeans have left Africa, there was a huge population increase that occurred as the result of European rule, the rule of law and some free markets, good medicine and so on.
And now what seems to be happening, you know, correct me where I go astray, Dan, but now what seems to be happening is after the Europeans left, the pressures on population, the pressures of lower food production, the pressures of increased poverty is starting to drive.
The indigenous population to leave Africa and of course start flowing north into Europe and so on.
And it's one of these ironic things.
It's like white rule was the worst thing ever.
Now white rule is over.
It's like we better get to white countries as quickly as humanly possible.
And again, none of this can be explained in any Marxist analysis, but the IQ stuff puts it all in perspective.
Yes, you're quite right.
And even, you know, some of the liberal politicians in our country, such as Miss Helen Ziller, have made certain remarks for which she was heavily criticised.
And in fact, I mean, she was practically, recently she was practically kicked out of a party and disciplined by the new black leader that she'd actually appointed in her place in the first instance.
Simply for saying that everything about colonialism wasn't bad because it brought literacy and medicine and education and infrastructure and so on to Africa and she was then immediately denounced but she'd also made another statement a few years ago when she said that there were Educational refugees from the Eastern Cape to the Western Cape,
where she's still, at this very moment, the provincial leader or premier of the province.
I mean, the Western Cape is the only province in South Africa not ruled by the ANC at the moment.
And what she was saying there was that the Eastern Cape, which is a really black-majority province and probably, yeah, maybe I mean, next to the Limpopo province, it's the most backward province in South Africa.
I mean, the GDP must be about 4% of ours, even though it's got a population of, yeah, 12 million or so people.
And they would literally flee their own ethnic group's rule To go to another province, which is, I mean, some people say that the Western Cape is run by white racists because there are still many whites involved in the provincial government.
And, yeah, I mean, and ironically, of course, it has the best public health system, the best public education system and so on, much better than there is to the country.
But they flee their own province and their own leaders to go there.
And, you know, exactly as you pointed out earlier on, during the days of the evil apartheid regime in South Africa, people from Mozambique and Zambia and Malawi and all these places did their best to come to South Africa to experience this society with its order and its prosperity and forward planning and so on.
I mean, just over the last few months, Cape Town has actually run out of water because there's a drought there and in the past 10 to 20 years, even though the population was growing rapidly, they didn't do anything to increase the water supply.
Now, under our old government, there was never any electricity shortage, there was never any water shortage because these things were planned 20, 30 years in advance.
I mean, this whole area where I live around Johannesburg doesn't have any water of its own, but we actually pump water from hundreds of kilometers away from the Lesotho highlands in the independent country of Lesotho under an agreement that was Drawn up in the 1970s.
So that's why we've got water here, because some people at that time worked out to be going to run out of water, and we'd better do something about it.
And it was one of the largest engineering projects that this country had ever undertaken.
But yeah, I mean, elsewhere in Africa, these things are just not done.
And yeah, and rightly, as you say, there's sort of a A lack of foresight, a lack of planning, and you see it all the time.
People are running out of things, you know, out of this government, they run out of paper, or they run out of this or that in the government and administration all the time, because, you know, until that stock of paper is depleted, you're not going to think of, okay, maybe I should order some now before we run out completely.
You know, that happens all the time.
Right. Now, one of the things that you've referred to, and I think is very important, Dan, to get across to the audience as a whole, is this concept of South Africa as the canary in the coal mine.
Because what is slowly happening to Western countries as a whole, some faster, some slower, is that whites are on track to become minorities in their own countries within decades.
And that is a relatively slow process, which has its pluses and its minuses.
It's not as alarming to a lot of people, but it means that there's still time to figure out what to do.
But what is slowly happening in Europe happened overnight to some degree in South Africa, and the politically whites became a minority within the country.
And what can you help Europeans to understand what they can look forward to, so to speak, based upon the South African experience.
Yes. A very interesting area that you're exploring there too.
South Africa is so complicated that it's difficult to convey it to outsiders who are not familiar with all our local issues and circumstances and so on.
But if, for example, a country like France, if the French had to become a minority in France, the first thing that would happen would be that street names would change.
And everything that happened before, say, France became a black-run country, say, in 2030 or something, then everything that had happened before that would be considered And the entire history of the country,
like our history, would become suspect and denounced and eradicated from syllabuses and so on.
And then, inevitably, there would also be a system of affirmative action, because you would I mean, there would be this natural inequality between educated Europeans and incomers who come from third world countries where they've never had a good education system and where the bulk of the population inevitably drop out or they fail their courses and they are not university material.
We've seen that at our universities, which used to be very peaceful and ordered before, They've now become prone to riots and sit-ins and strikes and so on, something that we never before experienced.
I'm sorry to interrupt you, Dan, but you pointed out in one of your talks, there are riots every day.
Every day, somewhere, someone is setting fire to something, someone is attacking someone, there's some group rampaging through the streets, breaking windows.
It is a daily occurrence which was incomprehensible prior to 1994.
Yes, exactly. You know, now we have, we've got about 15 protests every day.
These are the police figures, and about half of them turn violent.
And it could be that they only burn, you know, a few things quite superficially, or they can literally burn down houses or go on the rampage, loot stores and liquor stores and that sort of thing.
I mean, it happened in the USA, of course, as well, in the 1960s and even more recently.
But yeah, it's a daily occurrence and people don't even, I mean, they seem to think that you just have to live with it.
And that's part of the system now, that there are daily riots and so-called protests.
They've got this term for a service delivery protest.
So when people start burning stuff, they call it a service delivery protest because the logic goes that they're not getting enough Free stuff from the government, therefore, that's why they riot.
And therefore, the solution is to have more handouts and more free stuff for the rioters, and then it'll stop.
But it never stops.
Well, and just as blacks were excluded from the political life in South Africa, when whites become a minority, it seems that whites get excluded from the economic life within the country, which, you know, arguably is a little bit more dire.
Particularly, as you point out, if I remember the numbers, the hundreds of thousands of whites stuck in hopeless dead-end squatter camps with little access to medicine, to water, and so on.
These are horrendous situations and environments, and they're legally barred from going in and getting work because of quota systems and barriers and general racism against whites in South Africa.
Yes, precisely. And even, you know, There are still some whites who work for some of the major corporations and so on, but they are not allowed to hold jobs.
They are merely appointed on a contract basis as consultants and so on.
So if you have got some special skills that are needed by some of the major corporations, They will use you for two or three years, but on a contract basis as a consultant, but you've got no job security, you've got no pension or medical aid or anything like that.
You're simply a hired hand and if they don't need you anymore, they just get rid of you.
Whereas, you know, blacks get all the perks, they get appointed in these jobs and Of course, the corruption is completely endemic now to South Africa.
You know, if you drive around Johannesburg, it will be noticeable to you how many expensive cars there are on the road, and the vast majority of those cars are driven not by white people but by black people, and they didn't get that car or that house or whatever because he listed Some kind of high-tech company on a stock exchange.
He got it because he knew somebody in government and they did some sort of a deal.
He supplied something to the government, which he got from another company, and he took a cut of 20% in between.
And, you know, there's a whole system of crony capitalism going on in South Africa.
And even in the liberal media, you know, our liberal media that We are always ready to, you know, praise our government and how, what a great country we have now under democracy and so on.
Even they are now continuing on to the fact that this cannot continue forever because eventually the resources of the country and especially our financial resources will simply be depleted and our infrastructure will fall to pieces.
And, you know, whereas our main sort of highways and so on are still in a fairly good condition because they're sort of semi-privatized and run by a road agency.
I mean, if you look at the state, there's some of our smaller roads and, you know, it's terrible.
It's full of potholes and, yeah, and there you can see the effect of this corruption because in municipalities, for example, they don't spend any money On maintenance or infrastructure, it all goes into salaries and perks and foreign travel, living it up in five-star hotels, restaurants and entertainment.
I mean, there are scandals all the time in the newspapers where some government official or mayor would spend a few million on takeout.
In a year. I mean, he would get so many Kentucky Fried Chickens and McDonald's and whatever delivered to his office that it would run into the millions in any single year.
So, yeah, it's...
It's a dire problem.
I want to mention also as well, I mean, those are the longer-term issues.
What seems to me more immediate, Dan, is discretion of the food supply.
Because, as you know, the Afrikaners are famous for their farming expertise and competence and have become the breadbasket of South Africa and other places in Africa.
And when you think about other countries, Zimbabwe, Rhodesia and so on, where the whites were kicked out or the land was expropriated or something like that, Now they're, I think it's in Zimbabwe, they're begging the white farmers to come back because they just can't maintain the same level of food supply.
Now what happens then, of course, is that people are going to start to flee the country, and where are they going to go?
They can't go south, it's an ocean.
Can't go east or west, they're going to head north.
And now that Libya has been destroyed, the barrier between Sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, and Europe has been torn down.
And so the anti-white racism and the hostility towards the white government that occurred, as you point out, starting from the 60s onwards, That was driven by Europeans who pushed up their noses and said, oh, what terrible racists and so on.
The blowback from this could be extraordinarily intense.
By removing the higher IQ populations from running the countries, those countries are going to decline.
The chances of surviving within those countries are going to go down.
So people are going to start fleeing and they're going to head north.
And it is a horrible thing that it's the children of the propagandists who are going to have to face the challenges that this is going to occur.
But my particular concern immediately It's food supply because that's the one thing people just won't do without.
Yes, exactly.
Together with the old Rhodesia and South Africa, we used to produce enough food to almost feed the entire sub-saharan Africa.
We had surpluses in maize and all sorts of other I mean, even though this year there's been a bumper maize crop, just because we had some good rains and so on, but generally speaking,
you know, food production is declining, the number of farmers is in decline due to the violence and the farm attacks and so on, and also due to all the government laws that are being directed against farmers.
And of course in Zimbabwe you had the extreme example of land simply being taken away from legitimate owners and they're now talking about doing the same thing in South Africa.
In fact, under pressure from the extreme left, the extreme Afro-Marxist left, the government has now accepted the doctrine of expropriation without compensation.
And they are planning to actually just take land from farmers and without giving them anything in return.
And that's going to have a catastrophic effect on South Africa and on the entire subcontinent.
Because Zimbabwe still gets quite a lot of food from South Africa, which is paid for by foreign aid agencies and Oxfam and the like.
And sometimes, I mean, it's given to them.
I mean, they get loans and things like that from our government.
They even got free electricity, and I think they still get free electricity from us, whereas we have to pay for it.
Yeah, that's going to have, as you say, a knock-on effect, and it's going to lead to more instability and more migration to the rest of the developed world, because we We're the only really developed country in sub-Saharan Africa,
and so if we can no longer supply people with food and transport and so on, they will simply go and look for it elsewhere.
And Africans, unlike, say, a few decades ago, they're now very informed about conditions overseas due to modern Communications technology, cell phones, smart phones and that sort of thing.
So they know exactly what it looks like in Europe and the United States.
And they're mobile.
You know, there are some cheap flights from Africa.
And there are already colonies and ethnic networks all over the Western world, you know, in Toronto and London or Frankfurt, New York, everywhere.
There are already African immigrants there.
And their relatives will come over as well.
And once, you know, there's sort of a pool factor there, and once the push factor from Africa rises, the process of migration will accelerate.
And demography is the biggest thing that's going to change the world.
I mean, you know, there's that well-known Commonplace from August Kunt where he said demography is destiny.
And that's a fact.
And we've experienced it in this country because our government, even though in the late 1940s they held a symposium at the University of Stellenbosch down in the south of South Africa, and somebody stood up there, one of the demographers, and he said, you know, by the turn of the century, by the year 2000, There are going to be 20 million black people in South Africa.
And, I mean, everybody said that was just impossible.
How can that happen?
And now there are 40 million black people in South Africa.
So they've constantly underestimated the demographic growth in South Africa.
And just like we did, the rest of the world is doing the same.
I mean, the UN is predicting That there are going to be at least 4 billion Africans by the year 2100.
So, in fact, the whole planet is going to be an African planet.
And they will be migrating and settling in other centers and taking them over.
I mean, unless the ideology changes in the world from this kind of, you know, multiculturalism and Cultural Marxism and so on to a much more kind of pagan doctrine of, you know, each to his own and, you know, know your enemy and that sort of thing.
I mean, there was one American commentator who a few years ago wrote a book about that, that America had to look more towards pagan examples from Greek and Roman times to deal with its enemies rather than altruism Or, you know, Christianity or, you know, feeling sorry for people.
You should only look after your own interests.
I mean, unless the West, and I don't foresee that at the moment, given the current state of affairs, develops a kind of certain strategic selfishness, yeah, they will eventually be overrun, just like in that famous novel by The French novelist Jean Raspail called The Camp of the Saints.
You must have read that one.
I mean, it was even translated into Afrikaans here, and I know it was read all over the world.
And in that book, he presents, I think, a very alarming and kind of, yeah, but it's also a prophetic view of the end of the West when Europeans are simply outnumbered by people from the Third World and especially from Africa where there's been such huge and galloping demographic growth.
Right. Well, it is a big challenge.
In talking about the IQ issues, my hope is that we can start to get scientists and geneticists working on these issues, find out, explore, get more of the map of the genome, try and figure out what the differences are.
Whether any solutions are possible because I have no problem with people who are smart.
The problem is, of course, if there are huge populations that can't achieve Western standards of education and intelligence What is going to happen to the West when that sort of host population diminishes?
And it's going to be incredibly destructive for everyone.
So it's a challenging topic.
I really, really appreciate you taking the time to talk about it.
We will put links to your material below.
Dan's work is essential to look at.
We kind of need to shake off our video game-induced slumbers to some degree and start looking at the future of our civilization.
Civilization, like the roads aforementioned, are not things that last forever.
They must be protected and maintained and invested in.
And now I think the time has come for that.
So just remind everyone to check out the Pro-Afrikaans Action Group, Prague, with two A's.
That's P-R-A-A-G dot C-O dot Z-A. Follow down on Twitter.com.
We've also got an English website at Prague.org.
Prague.org. Okay, we will link to that as well.
It was viciously hacked about a year ago, but we've managed to fix it again.
We lost a bit of data, but a lot of the material is still there, so you can go and have a look at that.
All right, we'll put a link to that as well.
And you can follow Dan on twitter.com forward slash Dan Root, R-O-O-D-T. And thanks again, Dan, for your time today.
I really, really appreciate the work that you're doing bringing this information to light.
Well, thank you very much for the opportunity to interact with you, Stefan and I'm also a great admirer of your videos and your discussions and your combination of politics and philosophy and current affairs.
I think you've got a unique approach that's needed today in the current state that we find ourselves in.
I am an unwitting warrior, unwilling warrior perhaps, but that's what needs to be done.
