3711 Enemy of the State | Tommy Robinson and Stefan Molyneux
"The powerful story of Tommy Robinson, former leader of the EDL and a man persecuted by the British state, simply for standing up in support of British troops. Tommy describes growing up on the streets of Luton, a town plagued by Islamic extremism and criminal gangs and how his livelihood was taken from him when he led a street protest against it."Tommy Robinson is the Founder and ex Leader of the English Defence League (EDL), the author of the must-read book “Enemy of the State” and a contributor for TheRebel Media.Book: http://www.fdrurl.com/tommy-robinsonThe Rebel Media: http://www.therebel.media/tommy_robinsonTwitter: http://www.twitter.com/TRobinsonNewEraFacebook: http://www.facebook.com/thetommyrobinsonYour support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
Hope you're doing very well here chatting with Tommy Robertson.
Now, as you probably know, he's the founder and ex-leader of the English Defense League, the author of the powerful book, Enemy of the State, which will keep you up at nights in more ways than one, and a contributor for, as relevance to the Rebel Media.
You can find him at least on the Rebel Media at therebel.media.com.
You can follow his great Twitter feed at twitter.com forward slash trobinsonnewera and facebook.com forward slash thetommy.
Robinson, Tommy, thank you so much for taking the time today.
No, thanks for having me on.
So, Tommy and I share not wildly disparate backgrounds, for those who don't know.
We both grew up in poor areas of England.
And it's interesting because, at least for me, I sort of saw both sides of the coin.
I grew up poor, but also went to a fairly posh boarding school, sort of saw both sides of the English class division.
And, Tommy, one of the things that really struck me in your book was some of the complaints about being displaced from old neighborhoods by immigrants, complaints about Certain tensions or ideological tensions in England.
Well, you said the upper classes have no trouble starting wars to some degree and sending poorer kids off with guns.
But when some of the working classes have problems with the giant multicultural experiment in England, their concerns get brushed aside.
Do you think that some of this has to do, some of the blindness to what's going on has to do with class conflicts or class divisions?
I do, yeah.
I do, hugely.
I hugely feel that.
What I feel as well is that as working class people, so a lot of middle class people, they have children, they'll go to university, and when they come out of school, they'll study at college, then they'll go to university, and then they'll get a job in another town and city.
So they haven't had to stay and watch.
What's the effects that we've had to watch in our towns and cities?
So we had a community.
We had a very strong, if I give you an estate in Luton called Farley Hill, a very strong English community that then all of a sudden had these other people put within it who were hostile, who were violent.
And we've had to watch the decay of our own town, the decay of our community, attacks on people, rapes on women.
And I think that for a lot of people, not even just middle class, but a lot of people have gone to university, especially politicians.
They've gone to university, they're in place in a boarding school.
They've then gone and lived in another town and they haven't witnessed or been part of that closed knit community.
And I say this because when I've done a documentary called Proud and Prejudiced, I had a young lad there called Tom Costello, and he got the top grades you could get at Oxford University.
He'd had a very different upbringing to me.
And when he spent a weekend with me in Luton, when we went to a local pub, he just said, I've never seen anything like this.
And I said, what do you mean?
He said, just the way everyone knows everyone, everyone here, It's close with everyone.
And I said, yeah.
And he said, I've never witnessed that.
So then I started thinking, what sort of life have you had?
And then I thought, so the effects that would be affecting us in towns and cities, it really affects us.
If something happens to someone we know, but he was very detached from any of that.
And yeah, and I think that, and then as well as when we're from our class, or the way I speak, the way I look, the way I dress, it's frowned down upon.
And if you look at the people from middle class, that's how I feel, not from all middle class, but especially from a lot of the people who run the media, a lot of people who are journalists, they're from a different background to us, a completely different upbringing, completely different way of life, completely different system.
So, yeah, I feel that a lot of it was a mis...
A misunderstanding and a way that they look down upon the working class.
There is something that's interesting to me when I was reading your book and thinking about the stuff that you and others have said, Tommy.
There's something really fascinating to me, which is that people who say more immigration from third world countries, more migrants and welcome refugees and so on, are precisely the people who aren't living in these neighbourhoods.
And it struck me almost like it's a way of broadcasting your own Your own privilege, your own isolation from the effects of the policies that you are kind of foisting on other people who don't have your kind of options.
Yeah, and they have no idea.
And it's like my mum was moving house.
And in between moving house, she moved to this place.
It's only probably 10 or 15 miles outside of Luton.
But there's not a single...
It's just completely English, completely white, the whole place.
And when I was going to visit her, because I've never been...
I've never grown up anywhere like that.
So then I was thinking, I thought, I bet these people who live here, when I'm standing at local shops, so they haven't got no idea.
They've got absolutely no idea what it's like 15 miles away, what it's like where we've grown up.
They've got no idea.
So then I have this...
So when people are coming out, and you're right, all the people calling for these measures and calling for this immigration...
It doesn't affect them.
They don't have to live with it.
It's like I look at all the celebrities, whether it be Lily Allen, Gary Lineker.
Look where Lily Allen lived when she lived in the Cotswolds.
Look where Gary Lineker lives.
They live in the completely dominated white English communities, Christian communities, completely.
But yet they're stressing that everyone else needs to welcome in these refugees.
Well, when they bring those refugees in, where are they going to live?
They're going to live with us.
They're going to live next to us.
They're going to live in the poor areas.
It's going to affect us.
It's not going to affect them.
They don't have the same problems on waiting lists for doctors because they have private healthcare, many of them.
They don't have the same problems with getting your children to schools because they're just paid.
And whereas many people, I know even in a little area, there's a new school built and there's 12 children in that one estate who can't even get into school.
There's not enough school places.
There's not a school place.
It's because of the huge demographical change that's happening because of the birth rate within the Islamic community.
And that's what generally...
They're not having to see it.
They don't see any of this, which is what the main thing we're trying to bring to people's eyes now, to let them see it.
This is what it's like here.
This is what's happening here.
These are the problems we're facing.
But yeah, I think that...
And some of them, I'd say, are well-intentioned.
Some of these people are well-intentioned, I'd say.
I try to understand as well.
Another example...
So, I can't understand.
See, with general Nazism and racism, for me, because I've been brought up in Luton, I find it hard to understand.
But then when I met lads from Newcastle who have, there's no immigration in the areas they live, and they're looking at the problems that are happening, and they haven't experienced it.
Same with when I went to France.
When I went to France, I spent time with groups in France.
Every bit of immigration they've had into their country is Islamic.
So they haven't had loads of black Christian immigration.
It's all Islamic.
So they push the problem basically on race.
So it's trying to understand different people's perspectives on all the issues.
And there is a funny thing as well.
When I was studying, it's a really boring bit of history, but I found it quite fascinating.
Back in the Middle Ages, you could have a food, like a food excess in one town.
And then 15 miles away, people could be starving to death because they just had bad, bad harvest or bad crops or whatever.
Because there was just, the roads weren't there.
There was just no way of transferring things.
And this kind of isolation seems to me to be happening as well throughout the West.
And I've really noticed it in your book and the other things that you talked about, which is you do have these isolated people.
Because it should be the media that is broadcasting the challenges between these different groups so that people aren't living in these ivory-towered isolation where they can basically just read whatever agrees with them and think that everything's fine, whereas other people are battling really challenging problems.
And no one's broadcasting it.
There aren't roads to even these things out.
The media seems to be doing as much work to isolate the powers that be from the problems that the rank and file are facing.
And when you do try and scream about those problems and draw attention to those problems, you're called a fascist racist.
So you're called a bigot and you're attacked at every level.
And even just like, I don't know if you'd see that white working class children are now the biggest underachievers in education.
White working class in the UK. They're the biggest underachievers.
Not the black community, not the Indian community, not the Muslim community.
White working class are the biggest underachievers in our education system.
And that comes from the fact that they're working class, they've been neglected, they've been abandoned, their sense of identity and who they are in their history is gone.
Most kids now, from a working class background, in dominated towns that are mainly Labour-controlled with large Muslim communities, have completely been pushed aside.
Completely.
The funding...
I remember when the English Defence League started, and the Lutenberg Council called me for a meeting.
And I went to a meeting with them.
And they had a baroness there from the Labour government, a black lady.
They had a baroness, they had councillors, they had all these different people there, a row of about 10 people.
They said, do you mind if we set this up and record it?
So they set a camera up and they said, tell us what's wrong.
So I said, okay, where are you from?
What's your background?
And I went through each one of them.
One of them was from Hitchin.
Hitchin's a lovely middle class town.
I went through.
The other lady, what school did you go around?
Middle class, middle class, middle class.
All of their backgrounds.
And there was one Muslim in the room who was a counsellor.
And I said, you're from Berry Park, aren't you?
Which is the Muslim community in Luton.
I said, yeah, you're just a normal working background.
I said, yeah.
The problem here is that you eight people, you do not represent me and you do not represent us.
And he represents the Muslim community because he does.
Yeah.
Because he understands them.
He's grown up with them.
I said, none of you are from my background.
None of you get what I'm saying.
I said, then if we go up to Farley Hill, which is the white council estate, there's a park here, and it's from the 1970s.
And it's got two swings.
If you go down the hill into the Muslim community, there's a £350,000 state-of-the-art park that you've built for them.
I said, and if we go into the Muslim communities, into the centres that they have, the community centres, Then it's all free.
It's all free.
If we go up to the council estate where the white kids are, or the black kids, and we want to play football, we have to pay £5 each.
So you're overfunding, and this is what's happened, full 360.
You've aimed everything, all of your resources, all of your campaigning, everything is aimed at the Muslim community.
Luton played a huge football match.
Luton is obviously the town I'm born in.
It's the football club I support.
Luton had a big, massive football match.
The biggest game for years in Luton, it was at Wembley Stadium.
And all the tickets were sold out.
And I mean, everyone wanted to go that game.
Now, I remember standing outside Luton Town Centre, standing outside Wembley Stadium, and I watched as 10 coaches come up, one by one.
And as they got off, it was just Muslim children.
Hundreds of Muslim children get off.
I remember thinking, what's all that's about?
So when I got with the council, I said, what is that?
What was that?
That's us trying to integrate them into the community.
I said, and you've done the complete opposite.
Because what you did, and I can tell you because I was there, to how angry everyone was watching those coaches pull up.
And West Ham Football Club have done the same.
And other teams have done the same.
They give out free tickets to all the Muslim community to come to the football to try and involve them.
Now those 10 coaches should have been filled with black, white, Asian, brown, yellow, every background of children.
But you...
You have specifically targeted the Muslim community.
You've neglected the poor white kids, the poor black kids.
You haven't brought them in on your little campaign of running to try and bring integration.
That's not integration, that's segregation.
And that is what every policy that they've done, even the imam at the time of me having this conversation, even the imam said that you've overfunded our community.
You've overfunded the Muslim community compared to what you've done to us.
So you've created this whole thing where white English children, and again, I've got the example in my book where It was St George's Day.
When it's St Lucian Day in Luton, there's a massive carnival party.
Okay?
Great.
Brilliant.
I used to go to it every year.
When it's St Patrick's Day, we have a three-day festival through the town for the Irish.
When it's Eid, you'll see a Rebel video of Eid this year.
When it's Eid, we have huge, massive fairgrounds, parks, everything to celebrate Eid.
When it's Christmas, we didn't even have Christmas lights last year because they couldn't afford them because of health and safety changes.
When it was St George's Day growing up, when it was the English people's chance to celebrate our identity, our history, who we are, it was banned every year.
Not just banned every year, but what they did is they gave out letters to the schools saying if the emblem of St George's brought in, and this is all documented, if the emblem of St George's brought into school, you'll be sent home from school.
Now this was Icknield High School.
This is the same school that actually experienced the same Trojan horse plot as well.
Ignild High School sent that out.
Now, when I grew up in Ignild High School, there was a few Muslims.
Now, it's 90% Muslim.
But at this time, seven years ago, it was probably 50-50.
Now, I ran the school straight away, and the receptionist told me that when Pakistan won the cricket, they were encouraged to celebrate Pakistani winning the cricket at school.
When it was England's day, You're not allowed to bring the flag.
So the message that is being sent out to our community, to our youth, to English kids, is that they should feel dirty for who they are.
They should feel ashamed.
They can't have pride in their identity, which is why in London there's no Cockney slang anymore.
People are speaking German African.
All of this comes from a sense of...
It's why so many convert into Islam, because Islam gives them a strong identity, a strong sense of community.
Now, we had that.
We had that in Farley Hill.
We had that in Luton.
You destroyed it.
The council destroyed it.
You destroyed it with the influx of people you brought in who openly attacked it.
And then through your education system and the council government system, you also attacked our identity.
You made us feel ashamed of who we are, which is why so many kids are...
This is, I feel, the reason why working class are the biggest underachievers.
Because they don't have pride anymore.
They don't even know who they are, most of them.
You stop them.
There was one interview where there was a black kid, an Asian kid, and a white kid, and they asked them their history.
Where are you from?
And one of them went, my family's from here, my family's from here.
Where are you from?
And they all celebrated.
When they got to the young English kid, where are you from?
So I don't know.
Now, one of the great comparisons that's made with sort of modern Western immigration is sort of the 19th century in America.
Now, to me, there's a couple of differences.
One is that 19th century in America was mostly European, similar history, similar backgrounds and so on.
And secondly, no welfare state and everyone was expected to obey the law in the same way.
To me, a country is defined, obviously, by culture and art and history, but in a formal way, a country is defined by the universality of its laws.
One of the things that's hard to avoid, Tommy, in your book is that the law is far from being applied equally.
And when the law begins to play favorites, you know, like the bad mom with the siblings, when the law starts to play favorites, it seems to me that the country begins to splinter into a kind of civil war of attempting to control the police, the legislature, the courts, the prisons, and so on.
And it kind of starts to balkanize.
And that usually is a prelude to some sort of escalating conflict.
And this breakdown of the universality of law seems to be a very, very unhealthy direction for a country to take.
Yeah, and it's who controls that.
And unfortunately...
Unfortunately, mob rule, with the British policing system and the government, mob rule seems to work.
Mob rule seems to work.
The threat of violence, I'll bring it back to 2001, the Bradford riots.
Since the Bradford riots, now if you pull up the videos yourself and watch back through, I've just done it recently to remind myself.
I watched back through the videos and then I understood why our government and our police are so...
Attacking of us because they are fearful, which I've had them admit to me many times.
You've read it in the book, in an incident in Birmingham.
They admit to me that their fear is that the Muslim community will riot.
Now, if you watch what Islamic leaders do, they use that.
And again, I'll give you a comparison where I realised how they use it and how it works.
So...
You constantly hear them saying, we won't be able to control the youth.
We won't be able to control the youth.
They've done that to get us stopped from being allowed to protest in Tower Hamlets.
When we were due to march through Tower Hamlets, the police, the Home Secretary gave an order that we weren't allowed to enter the whole borough of Tower Hamlets.
We took it to the High Court.
When we went before the High Court judge, the head of the Metropolitan Police come into court and openly admitted in court, we do not fear the behaviour of the English Defence League.
What we simply can't handle is Is the reaction there will be for them.
So then our argument, which we would have won if we went to the European Court, the top court, but the judge ruled against us.
But our argument was, so you're taking away our democratic rights because of the threat of mob rule, because of the threat of violence.
And that happens time and time again.
And again, if I compare it, when I realise the power it has, was once I had the English Defence League as a movement, there was a shopping centre in Rochdale that...
They built new toilets in the middle of the shopping centre.
And they put a hole as the floor.
They put a hole for the toilet, like in Saudi Arabia, like in the Middle East.
And no toilet.
And I looked in.
I ran in the shopping centre.
I got through to the management.
And I said, you've got a week.
You have a week to change those toilets.
To put normal toilets in, like you're in Britain.
And if you don't, I'm going to bring the movement of the English Defence League to that shopping centre.
And what happens with our movement is when we go to any city, they pretty much bored the whole city up.
And you'll have to explain to your shops why they've lost millions in revenue because you decided to put a medieval hole in the ground as a toilet to appease the local Islamic community.
Now, straight away they reversed it.
Straight away they put toilets in.
Then, Luton Town Hall, in our shopping centre, they were opening a mosque.
They had a week to open.
They were opening a prayer centre in the shopping centre.
I went straight into the shopping centre.
I spoke to the Turkish Muslim restaurant.
I spoke to a family-run bakery that's been next door to this for 40 years.
And I said, do you want it there?
No, no.
All of them were terrified that the actual Muslim fellow, the Turkish fellow, said, we have enough problems in Luton without a mosque in the shopping centre.
So I then went down to the management of the council and said, you're not opening it.
And I had the English Defence League as, if you do do that, we'll protest.
Straight away, they closed the mosque.
They still to this date have never opened it.
I also, six councils one year, six councils changed the name of Christmas.
They called it Winter Illuminations.
They called it Winter Festival.
They took the name Christ out of it.
So I then sent a letter to 340 councils in the country, in the build-up, three months before Christmas.
And I said, this is who we are.
This is what we're doing as a demonstration.
And I gave them the facts of how much it costs to police an English Defence League demonstration.
Minimum £500,000 in costs.
I said, if this year you take the name Christ out of Christmas, if you change the name and you appease and you do this, then I'm letting you know now you will be the reason and this will be the cause for us marching through your city.
And some of those newspapers run stories saying we were blackmailing the councils.
But from 6th the previous year, How many do you think changed the name the next year?
None.
So I realised, and it's bad to say, it is like a black, but the Muslim community use exactly that tactic on everything.
Because they can, because it has happened.
Thousands of Muslims burnt Bradford.
Thousands of Muslims burnt cities across the country, costing the economy a lot of money, nearly going to civil conflict on the streets.
And that was in 2001.
Since doing that, they've been appeased at every level, for everything, because they constantly threaten with that.
And only when I've had the English Defence League or the weight of the English Defence League behind me, I realise, Jesus, this actually works.
And it's not, this actually works.
You can actually just say, well, I'll do that if you do that.
And as if you read in the book, when they arrested a Muslim man in Birmingham for frying a brick at a police officer, and the imam went with 200 other Muslims to the police station and said, you're going to let him go now.
And they let him go.
And when I met with the police from my next demonstration, I met with the police and said, The leaders of Birmingham Police Force.
And I said, I've read this.
I read this on the line in an anti-fascist website that you arrested a Muslim for hitting someone with a brick, hitting a police officer with a brick, but you let him go when the Imam come with 200.
And I said, look, that can't be right, can it?
And the police officer said, yeah, we did.
And I said, what?
You let him go?
How can you do that?
I said, hold on.
And he goes, well, Tommy, what we have to look at is if those 200 Muslims were the riots, That could have spread to this city, this city, this city, this city, naming all the cities of Muslim communities.
He goes, for one man and one crime.
And I'm like, hold on.
Who is in control of the law here?
The imam.
Not you.
And that's when I realised that we all think we know.
Growing up, you just think we have the police, we have the law.
But you realise how much influence people have over them.
And the threat and fear of trouble and conflict from the Muslim community has got them so many gains in this country.
And it is heartbreaking in a way for me because, like you, I mean, I grew up in a multiracial community, had best friends from all colours of the rainbow, so to speak, and it never seemed to me, it never occurred to me that it was any kind of issue or anything that needed to be thought about or anything that needed to be worried about.
Now, there is some change in general when culture begins to assert itself, when people get older and, you know, they get married and have kids and how are those kids going to be raised and what are their belief systems going to be and so on.
But it's funny because I think a lot of people who grow up as kids with a bunch of other ethnicities and races around, you really don't think about it.
You don't care about it.
It is, you know, that old dream.
It's the content of the character, not the color of the skin that matters, right?
Your friends or your mates with whoever you get along with best who seems a stand-up kind of person.
But then when you get older and you get into politics and you get into law and you get into education and you get into all of this kind of stuff, it really seems to kind of split away from that early, almost like a paradise, like a Garden of Eden of not caring much about the color of anyone's skin or anything like that.
And then it just seems to change when you get older.
And I think a lot of people look back kind of fondly on their time as kids when this stuff didn't seem to have much impact.
Culture, religion, race didn't seem to have much impact at all.
I certainly think back and think, man, it would have been great if that could have continued.
I'll say that my time enjoying that would have been in junior school.
Once I went to high school at the age of 11, it already mattered.
Because the divide, the huge divide.
But at that time, I never put it down to religion.
I put it down, I just, I was like, well, these Pakistanis are very different.
Their whole hostility, aggression, the way they hunt in packs.
I just put it down to them being Pakistani as a youngster.
I thought their gang culture is very different.
And it's funny how you say about towns, like, I've met journalists before when I meet them and walk through Luton.
And I've had them say...
There's a lot of black people here when they're looking around the town.
And I thought, you know what?
I never noticed that.
I never noticed that.
I've never ever...
When I walk through town, I've never sat and noticed that.
The way that journalists have noticed it, because they're obviously coming from somewhere else, so I just thought, I've never noticed that.
I've never thought of it like that.
But...
But yeah, the whole...
So all the way through school, it was Pakistanis who were problematic, who were gangs, who were fighting, who were abusive, who were...
Especially with the girls as well.
We had girls being groomed and sexually abused.
And at the time, I just thought, it's all to do with them being Pakistanis.
It was only when I began to read the Quran that everything just fell into place.
Everything.
My whole life, I sat back and looked and thought, wow, this is it.
This is it.
So what I did is, when I took the Quran, I was doing 22 weeks on solitary confinement, and I dissected certain things.
Every time it said, do not be friends with Christians or Jews, I wrote a reference.
And this was the first time I'd looked through the book.
And I was like, reference, reference.
And before I knew it, page after page after page, I just thought, wow, like, this explains why they weren't friends with us.
This all now comes together.
This explains why we have such segregation.
All of this is now fitting into place with everything I've experienced in my life.
Everything I put down to just being a gang thing or a Pakistani thing, it all just fell into the fact that at home they're being taught this.
And I also, I had a friend that I wrote about in the book called Sully, whose mum was Kenyan, black, Kenyan Muslim.
And he was at Madrasa and he had to come out of the Madrasa at age 12, which is when he joined my school.
Because they were teaching him that his dad had the devil in him at school.
And I remember him telling that.
I remember thinking, what?
School?
They were teaching your dad?
How can you be teaching your dad's got the devil in him?
Because his dad's a white Christian.
So all of these things, all of the, in fact, so much fell into place.
So much in my life and things I'd experienced and friends and friendships and things that were said.
And it all just fell into place when I picked up that book.
No, I think people need to read more about this obviously growing belief system and its effects on the West.
And if you just keep reading, a lot of mysteries are kind of cleared up pretty quickly.
Now, when it comes to...
The media as a whole, because this is something that has troubled me for a long time, and I remember, like you, you know, kind of naive, first dealings with the media is like, oh, well, I'm sure they're after the truth or something like that.
Do you think that the police are primarily concerned with rioting?
Because rioting is relatively easy to put down if you're resolute enough, and not even that many people.
If anyone has to get hurt, you just have to be resolute.
I always wonder, and I think you'd know this better than me, but I I always wonder if the police are concerned about the rioting or how the police response to the rioting would be portrayed in the media.
Yeah, you're right.
You know why you're right on that sense is that...
So, for years, and I challenge anyone to do this now, go online, look up YouTube, go onto English Defence League demonstrations, and you will find English Defence League supporters being beaten with batons over their heads.
Everywhere.
I mean, I've been to some demonstrations where 20 men are bloodied and battered, and on the opposite side, the Muslim community who are acting as aggressive, and there's not one baton drawn on them, ever.
Because the media image of a police officer beating a non-white person, the betrayal of it, and I feel there's a constant fear within the police.
Again, I'll give you another example.
This is an example.
I was at this before the English Defence League.
I was out in town and And I was with Kevin Carroll.
And his wife rang up.
He's my cousin.
His wife rang up and said, you need to get up the estate now.
This is the Farley Hill estate where it used to be a predominantly white working class estate.
And then all of these Muslims got put in it and just caused chaos.
And so I went running up.
I jumped out of a taxi.
As I got out of the taxi with Kev, I saw young white lads this side, aged about 12, 13, 14.
And Muslim men this side, aged 21, 22.
And there's fighting across the whole road.
As we've pulled up.
The whole road's fighting.
Kev's daughter...
Kev's looking for his daughter in the middle of all of it.
There's chaos everywhere.
The Muslim men have all got weapons.
As they're standing, they've all got weapons in their hands.
And the police cars come screeching up.
And I watch this.
They jump down the cars and they jump straight on this young kid.
The name's Maloney.
They jump straight on these two...
On these white lads.
And they're holding the white lads on the floor as the Muslim men are then just walking off.
I remember looking and I said...
What are you doing to the copper?
And he looked at us and said, what do you want us to do?
So how about the Muslims who were standing there with weapons?
And for people who are listening to this who don't understand it, I've watched this for years, years, at every opportunity.
The way the police act straight away, you could be a victim of a racist attack in the town centre by a gang of Pakistani Muslims.
The police would turn up and jump on you.
Every time.
Every time.
And the Muslims are so cocksure at that.
That they're laughing most of the time.
They're laughing.
They're not pleased in the same manner.
That iron fist is for us.
That kid glove is for them.
And I can give you so many examples.
And I don't know how many I even give in the book because I couldn't fit everything.
So many examples of watching and witnessing this treatment, which is why, really, when I talk about the formation of the English Defence League, So the Muslims who protest against our soldiers that day, I watched them do it, which is how the EDL started.
Our soldiers were attacked by gangs of Muslims in the town.
Sorry, just for the non-British, if you could give the background of that to make sure some people get the context.
Right.
So in 2009, there was a homecoming parade through Luton.
I got some tea then, through Luton.
So they were coming through Luton.
There was actually 60 or 70 or 80 Muslims who were spitting at them, calling them baby killers, butchers of Basra.
And these are the soldiers coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Yeah, these are the soldiers coming back.
And they're out there actually training the Afghan army.
They won't kill anyone.
They're out there training.
So I was there that morning to pay respect to that regiment because they're our local regiment.
And as I was there, I watched, I stood and watched.
I remember I knew who a lot of these men were.
I stood and watched as Al-Majroon, The organisation, as all of their leading members were grouping up.
And I remember looking, I saw all the police.
I saw about 30 women in burkas together.
And the police didn't stop and search them.
They didn't, they actually didn't do anything.
What they did is they walked them through.
And I watched this.
They were walked through my town hall, through the front, out the back, in a big group, where they then come round the side where the troops were marching and they hurled their abuse with a police cordon protecting them Whilst they did it.
Now, because of that, and what the police then did is, obviously men are getting angry.
Women are getting angry.
They're watching this abuse.
They're shouting baby killers, butchers, murderers, all of this.
So English people got angry.
And I watched then as the police jumped and arrested the English people.
And these group of Muslims who are all now, let me just tell you, out of that original screenshot, the majority were Are now currently in prison for terrorism, for ISIS. The majority are in for planning terrorism attacks.
So at that time, we knew who these people were, how they happened.
Everyone knew what their beliefs were.
And I then organised a demonstration after this.
I set up a group called the United People of Luton.
And we met up in the town centre as a community, which is what it was at first, a community.
Women, children, families.
My auntie was there.
As we come down, The police blocked the road.
And all we wanted to do was get to the war memorial, the same war memorial that they let the Muslims stand at and attack our troops.
We wanted to get to that war memorial to show the people of the UK and show everyone the people of Luton love our armed forces and respect them.
Every time anyone hears the name Luton, which to us, it's part of my identity is where I'm from.
It's a town I love.
Every time people hear that name, it's to do with terrorism, like the 7-7 launch pad where the bombings was in Luton, the fertilizer bomb plot was Luton, the Stockholm bomb was Luton.
They're all linked to Luton.
They're all from Luton.
So we wanted to make that point.
And what the police did is they kettled us in.
They refused to let us get to the Royal Memorial.
They then drew their battles.
My friend lost his front teeth.
Ironically enough, a black man.
You know, young black lads.
Yeah, I just wanted to point out, when you're saying that British people are marching, you're not talking white people.
This is all different races and ethnicities.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I don't...
Again, again, so...
Half my best mates that are black, they're English lads.
They love the country.
They've got England football tattoos all over.
So, Isaac, the police officer went past on his horse, and as we were trying to get warm real, just whacked him with a cosh.
Took his teeth out.
Now, what they then did is they stood everyone and I watched...
They made us take our shoes off when we were in the town centre.
We had to take our shoes off.
They then put their hands in our pockets.
They put cameras in our faces.
Said name, date of birth, what you're doing.
They've done all this.
And then my auntie, they kettled us for three hours and didn't let us move.
My auntie had to urinate in the street.
Okay?
So the men formed a thing around as she had to urinate in the street.
This was the reason...
People saw the English Defence League.
It's the reason why there was such a reaction to that.
Because if we wasn't already angry enough, if we wasn't already disgusted at what our council and police had allowed the Muslim community to do, we're then...
And this becomes about rights then.
That's what it becomes about.
It becomes about the fact that they weren't searched, they weren't kettled, they weren't hit with coshies.
There's no way in the world, even now, at any time, a Muslim woman would have to urinate in the street.
The police simply would not do that.
But they think they can do that to us.
So then it become about a complete equal rights.
It's like we're being treated completely differently.
And when you do that to a community, which we've seen through history, it's not going to end well.
So the next time there was a demonstration, what you then had, you could light a match and it would have exploded.
I'm telling you, the tension in the town, the feeling in the town.
Then, and this is coming from police officers, because they walked down.
Police were told...
Any groups, because at this time people were coming together, any groups of young white or black men seen circulating in the town or forming in groups were to be isolated, were to be searched by the police.
Then, and this has come from a police officer, the same group of radical Muslims are driving around in the car and they've been spotted by the police.
And what come over the radio is, don't pull them over.
Just don't search them, just leave it.
And this is from a police officer.
60 police officers done a walkout after that.
They went into the police and they all complained about the way they're being told to police our streets.
They're being told to target us and not them, which is why we're seeing what's happening now every week because of this policing tactic.
Now, because of that, at the next demonstration after that, what the police then did is after that first one, they raided all of our houses.
Now, they hadn't even arrested the Muslims for attacking the soldiers.
They did eventually.
But before they did that, they raided our houses.
And they gave us conditions, 14 houses, not to enter Lugan town centre 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for three months.
Yeah.
And that's...
And actually, the original request that we made to the council, before anyone saw the English Defence League, before there was an EDL, we went to Luganborough Council and we had a petition.
We had 2,500 signatures that demanded that they inflict ASBOs on the extremist radical terrorists.
ASBO then from our town centre...
So that our mums, our daughters, our sisters, our nans don't have to cross paths past this group.
Okay, so an ASBO that's an antisocial, what was the last?
Yeah, sorry, an antisocial behavioural order.
So what they introduced in Britain was if you get an ASBO, you're given that by the courts, and if you break it, you're straight in prison.
So we asked them to give these Muslim radical jihadists an ASBO, preventing them from going into the town centre, and preventing them from hanging around together.
So that they couldn't formulate in large groups and radicalise.
If they'd have done this 10 years ago, we may not be...
If they'd have done this to all the extremists, and then...
Because if you break your aspo, you're automatically in jail.
And the more you break it, the longer you're getting in prison.
So instead of giving them them, they raided our houses and gave us them.
So we ended up, or 14 of our friends ended up with conditions and dawn raids on our houses.
Which all charges were dropped eventually.
Once they had their three-month bail conditions put on, all charges were dropped.
But this was...
Yeah, so the original formation and the anger and frustration about why we formed was about equal rights.
We were fed up with what they were doing.
And I can honestly say now, if the police had not stopped that protest that day, if they hadn't stopped us getting to that war memorial, no one would have heard of Tommy Robinson.
No one would have heard of me.
No one would know who I am.
I'd live a very different life.
It was that moment and that time that really...
We look...
I've got kids.
If the policing system is that unfair now, I've got three kids growing up in that town.
What's it going to be like for them?
And that's what it became originally, a fight for equal rights against the police.
And then it spread...
Now, let's – because I really want to point out the role that this inconsistent, unfair policing has on provoking or stimulating bad behavior in certain groups, right?
So, in America, there's this Ferguson effect where the police are afraid to go into certain communities, black communities, and enforce the law.
And as a result, you know, I mean, murders are up, robberies are up, rapes are up, and so on.
I think of none of the bankers who were prosecuted for fraud after the 2007-2008 financial crisis where the laws refused to be applied – And then they just go run roughshod over things.
It could be anyone.
It could be ginger-headed people from Poland.
If the police just suddenly said, well, you know, we're going to protect them, we're not going to enforce the law against them, that would provoke and stimulate bad behavior.
So it's kind of a relationship.
It's not just like trying to keep a pot lid on a boiling water.
It's a relationship that provokes and stimulates and, in a sense, rewards bad behavior that I think is part of the problem.
That's what they're doing.
They reward.
And I think going back, look, There was institutional racism in the police force at the time of Stephen Lawrence's murder.
They're full 360'd it.
They're full 360'd it.
So they've gone from institutional racism against black people to complete institutional racism against us.
And that's it, because they're constantly scared.
They're constantly scared.
They're constantly worried the complaint, the career-ending move would be to have a racism attached to their file, a claim of racism.
So that's how powerful it would come and the political correctness all played a part in the policing.
We've seen this with the rape gangs in Rotherham and the way the police dealt with it.
But what I try to stress to everybody is with Rotherham, so for your viewers who don't know what happened in Rotherham, Rotherham's a small town, a very small town in the north of England where Muslim men were allowed by the police.
There was conspiracy of silence by the police leaders, council leaders, Imams, everybody, that allowed the rape and prostitution where young white English girls or young non-Muslim girls were taken as sexual slaves.
Now, everyone knew what was going on.
Families were complaining to police.
Families were begging the police to do things.
They didn't do anything.
Now, what come out in the report, the government report, this was due to the fear of being branded a racist.
That's how powerful political correctness is.
Men will stand by and watch children get raped.
Now, what I tried to stress at that time is This isn't just to do with raping young girls.
That same MO, that same circumstance is everything.
So if there's complaints against, say for example, in some schools in Luton now that are predominantly Muslim, there's young white English children who are being bullied.
No one's doing anything about it.
No one's helping them.
Now, if it was predominantly white schools and there was a young black or Asian boy that was getting bullied, There's all these different things that are set up to help them and people aren't afraid to help them.
And that white racism is disgusting.
We must tackle it.
But now it's reversed.
There's no help.
There's no support.
And no one's willing to deal with it because they're so scared.
So on rape, on prostitution, on young children being bullied, we see the same on the female genital mutilation where we have 5,000 young girls every year having their genitals mutilated.
Every year.
It's a law.
We've had laws in this country for 30 years to stop that.
It carries a 14-year prison sentence.
Not one single person has ever been prosecuted, yet we have over 60,000 young girls who have been mutilated.
So on every level, the police act and fail when it comes to dealing with the Muslim community.
Every level.
I mean, I don't know what the word is for something that's even worse than a failure.
You know, it's one thing if I try and jump over a style and don't make it.
It's another thing if I end up cracking both my legs.
This is even worse than a failure because it's not just Rotherham.
Like when I first talked about Rotherham on this show...
I got countless emails pointing out the entire list of the towns, again, primarily in the north, where similar situations had occurred.
You've probably heard, is it like dozens, if not more, of these towns where these predations have occurred?
In Blackpool, where one city, the police named...
This is all black and white in their police reports.
There was 100 Muslim takeaways that were being used to groom girls.
One takeaway...
Had groomed 70 young girls.
Sexually abused.
When I say groomed, it's rape jihad.
70 young girls.
Two girls have never been found from that takeaway.
They're eight in that takeaway.
One of them, a young girl called Charlene Downs.
I've met her parents, met her family.
She went missing.
Undercover tapes and recordings from the takeaway had the men saying to each other that her body went through the kebab mincing machine.
They got off on the technicality in court.
They're still running that takeaway.
So that's Blackpool.
Then we had Oxford.
Oxford, people around the world in different countries, you hear of Oxford, you think of beautiful architecture, you think of the best university in the world, one of the best universities in the world.
In Oxford, one young girl was 11 years old, young English girl.
They got an iron rod and they heated it, boiling hot, and they scolded her bum with the letter M, because she was the property of Mohammed.
This has gone on, 120 girls, There's a case going on now of 120 girls in Huddersfield, Bradford.
I mean, across the whole of our country, in every single community where there's an Islamic community, every single town in the Islamic community, young English girls have been taken as sexual slaves and as prisoners for decades.
One of the things that report showed, this is how mad it is.
It's just insane.
Some of the young girls in Rotherham, two of the girls' dads got together.
They went to the house where the men were raping their daughters and The police got called.
The police turned up and arrested the fathers and left the girls in the house with the men.
Now, this isn't me saying this.
This is in a government report, the J report.
Anyone can read it online.
Another circumstance, they had a 12-year-old girl in a derelict building in a house.
Police turned up.
There was five Muslim men abusing her in that building.
They arrested a 12-year-old girl for drunken disorderly.
So, this is how deep this is.
Now, That's happened across our country.
These are horror stories, but the difference is that when I used to tell these stories 10 years ago, actually, 2004 is when I first started telling these stories.
Now, because people didn't believe it, because that sounds unbelievable, even to your viewers.
These things sound unbelievable, yeah?
They're not anymore, because there's government reports, there's police statements, there's witness statements, there's charity statements.
It's all out there now.
We know what's happening.
But for years, I was called an extremist.
Conspiracy theorist.
A conspiracy theorist, and I'm making this all worse.
I'm blowing it all up worse than it is.
You can't get much worse than the stories I'm telling you.
You can't get much worse than every single system that's there to protect children failing.
And as you're right, failing isn't the right word for it.
Collaborating with the attackers to facilitate the rape of a youth of English girls.
And again, to sort of flip the tables, if this had been white gangs kidnapping and abusing other races or other cultures' kids and this had gone on for a long time and covered up by the police...
You can't even imagine what an explosion there would be.
And where are all of these feelings going, Tommy?
When people read about this, that this is England, this is sort of our ancestors, our country, our culture, what is happening to people's emotions when they read through this stuff and they see what is happening and how much is being covered up and how little action is being taken and how the innocent are attacked and the guilty are often protected or their identities buried.
What do you think is happening to all the emotions that this must be provoking in the hearts of British people?
I think that, and I've warned this for years, and I've said it for years, and I only say it because I think I have my finger on the pulse for how people are feeling and how upset people are.
And they are going to create a monster.
No doubt about it.
I keep asking all the time, and I always say, where are the Englishmen?
Where are the Englishmen?
What's happening?
And I don't know if it's been done on purpose, but so many people, and it works.
The tactics they use work.
When we started with EDL, they raided my house three times in the first six months.
Now, all of my friends around me, who all have quite good jobs, who all have careers, they all back back.
They're like, whoa, you see what they're doing?
That installs fear.
It works.
It scares people.
Everyone is currently mortgaged up or financed up to the top.
And everyone's constantly worried about their job, their work.
And then what you have is government organisations or government-funded organisations or George Soros-funded organisations that anyone who says anything or tries to galvanise people, they find out where they work.
They find out their jobs.
They find out their schools.
They find out everything.
These groups are out there doing it every day.
They then contact these groups.
Again, I'll bring you back to experience.
I had a school teacher crying his eyes out on the phone to me who got involved with the EDL. He come to an EDL demonstration.
They then had a photograph of him and it had been sent to the HR. And this is what they do.
I had someone who worked in BMW who'd been called in.
They screenshotted all their tweets of what they were saying about Islam.
And then they get disciplinary at work.
What that does is it creates an undercurrent of fear from everyone.
And that's currently where everyone is at.
Everyone's scared.
Everyone's scared to speak their mind.
Everyone.
And the EDL sort of done a good job of breaking that because this whole you're racist, you're racist, you're racist, you then had thousands of men walking down the streets screaming and singing songs about being infidels.
Those men weren't afraid.
That's getting more and more and more and broader and broader and broader.
There's many more people speaking their mind now and speaking about the problems.
I think these last two weeks in the UK has really woke a lot of people up.
A lot of people are watching.
A lot of people are listening.
People weren't prepared to listen.
When I was talking about Islam nine years ago, ten years ago, people didn't want to hear it.
They didn't want to hear it.
And when they didn't want to hear it because they don't want to accept it, because the reality is terrifying, then...
But now a lot of people do want to hear it.
A lot of people are listening now.
My concern, Tommy, is that, as you point out, and it's happening all over the West, death rates among whites in America are way up.
My particular concern is, as you talk about, the young white British kids, working-class British kids, they are not doing well.
They are really, really underperforming.
So what's going to happen, my concern, is that they're going to get out and they're going to say...
I don't have a future.
I don't have anything, like they can't take anything from me.
You know, there's that old song, you know, when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose.
So this is my concern.
As long as, you know, I've always sort of argued that the allegiance of, you know, high testosterone, low obedience young men, the obedience to social norms is achieved by being able to dangle goodies in front of them.
Here's your job, here's your career, here's your house, here's your family.
When society...
Doesn't have that to offer young men of any ethnicity when there's no future for them.
Well, we've seen countless times throughout history what happens when people feel cornered, when they feel that there's no future.
Even the smallest mammal, when cornered, will turn and fight.
And this is sort of my concern that particularly the next generation are being boxed into the point where I don't think they're going to see a peaceful solution.
And that's really what we want to avoid, if at all possible.
That's what I've stressed out for years and in my speeches and when I'm talking, I know people were listening to me.
So I've always stressed the nonviolent.
This is a solution.
This is a solution.
We can go down a democratic route for this.
We can find an answer.
And the longer you give no light at the end of the tunnel, the longer that, for example, now they're housing, there's 450 ISIS trained fighters who have been out killing and raping and murdering and pillaging in the Middle East.
And they're walking our streets right now.
Sadiq Khan, who needs to resign.
Sadiq Khan was on our...
who's the Muslim mayor of London, who was linked before he'd become mayor with so many radical Islamic groups.
It's unbelievable.
He was on our TV this morning and he was asked, so out of these 450 ISIS fighters, how many are in London?
And he said half.
He said, do you know where they are?
He said no.
Because these last three men who just done the most recent terrorist attack, they were...
On the London Bridge, they were on a documentary just last year, The Jihadi Next Door.
So they're all known to the security services.
Now, when that happens, when people sit and think, you're not actually protecting us.
You're not actually protecting our families.
It's at that moment, when things fail for you like that, it's at that moment that I think men are going to form resistance.
And again, I'll give you another example.
In the Sikh community, in the Indian Sikh community in the UK, One of their young girls was raped in a town called Leicester.
Gang raped by Muslims.
The family went to the police.
Police did not arrest the men.
What then happened is 30 Sikh men went and found the Muslims.
They found them at their businesses and their houses.
And there was a massive attack.
Now, then the police, and then the police arrested the Muslims for the rape.
And they also sent 20 Sikh men to jail.
But those Sikh men didn't want to do that.
They felt forced to do that, to protect their community.
Now that is where I can see things heading.
And I can see it heading that way because, and I mean, when I say my finger's on the pulse, so many people are contacting me.
I get 2,000 messages a day currently on Facebook.
What do we do?
Everyone wants to know we're not protected.
And when you don't give people light at the end of the tunnel, I used to say it with the EDO, when you call everyone far right, everyone, then those young kids will think, well, you called me far right anyway.
So what's the difference between me standing with this group and standing with that group?
And they're less susceptible to being radicalised by the real far-right, not people who just talk about Islam, but the genuine far-right, which there aren't many of.
But I see that happening.
I can see it, and I don't just see it.
It's like the government and our leaders are actually pushing people to it.
It's like, you're actually creating this.
You're actually allowing that to happen, and you're actually going to push people to the point A feeling that they have to do things themselves because you're not protecting their families and there's no light at the end of the tunnel.
And especially, as you say, white working class kids or youth that feel they have nothing.
I don't know what point it will.
And I keep saying I don't know what the moment will be, but there'll be a defining moment in our history that I think will change the direction of this nation.
And it's not going to be pretty.
It's not going to be pretty.
It is so frustrating, of course, because so many of these problems, if dealt with early, Can be resolved peacefully, can be resolved reasonably, and the good moderate Muslims would benefit from the law being equally applied to their community and everyone else.
We focused on the non-Muslim community, but of course within the Muslim community there are people who are being preyed upon and terrorized by extremist elements.
They're not happy about it either, and they are looking for protection from the police as well.
These are the people who probably came to England to escape some of the extremism in their home countries, and now it's kind of following them.
And they do want protection, and it could be solved relatively easily.
I think even at this point, with resolution, with determination, with consistency, it could be solved mostly peacefully, if not completely peacefully.
But the longer it lies, it's like that lump in your body, like the longer you leave it, the worse things can get.
And it's so infuriating.
When I sit and watch, I think, Canada, America.
How are you not watching this and learning?
I still see Donald Trump trying to put a ban through and being criticised and hammered by the left.
I think, are you not watching what's happening over here?
Are you not seeing the failures we've made as a country and in Europe, the failure to work, the failure of Islam in our country?
Are you not seeing that?
And I see the Prime Minister or the leader of Canada saying, we'll take them all in, we'll take more in.
I just think, what are you watching?
We're literally seeing terrorism on a daily or weekly basis in Europe.
We're seeing the production.
When you see the thought process, this is like, if you look at the thought process in Afghanistan and Iraq, and you see their views, and then you see the thought process of Muslims in Europe, it's like, I don't know what they thought they were just going to, we're going to have this sort of British Islam, where 90% of the Imams can't speak English.
The majority of them are born abroad.
And you bring them in, It's the same Islam here as in Afghanistan.
You know when 90% of people think that if someone leaves Islam they should be killed.
That's what you've imported into our country.
And we can see that by the demographics and their thought process in any of the surveys in the Muslim community.
It's terrifying.
It's terrifying.
And we say it's not all Muslims.
No, it's not all Muslims.
But 66% of British Muslims would not report on another Muslim who was going to join ISIS. That's a majority of Muslims who are problematic for us.
That's a majority.
That's not a minority.
Okay?
That's a huge number.
And then even if you say it is a minority, if we look at 25% of them want to enforce Sharia law on this country, okay, that's a minority.
But it's still...
A million people.
Well, and that's 25% who are willing to admit in a public forum that that's what they want.
We don't know necessarily what people's private thoughts are.
We saw that with the election of Donald Trump.
Everyone said, Oh, no, I'd never vote for that guy.
And then boom, he's in.
So private thoughts and public pronouncements aren't always exactly the same thing, of course.
And I think terrorism...
I think it's the least of our worries for the future.
If they were clever, they'd just be quiet, shut up and continue having 5.6 children and culturally and everything will change for them anyway because they've infiltrated every position of power.
I know that there's a speech by Shaleed Malik.
You can watch this.
It's 2004, 2005.
Shaleed Malik was the first Muslim minister for the Labour Party in the UK. And he said, in 2001, we had one Muslim MP. In 2003, we had three Muslim MPs.
In 2006, we had six Muslim MPs.
In 2012, we had 12 Muslim MPs.
And in between saying each thing, he's saying, inshallah, inshallah.
So God willing them, basically, to take over our parliament.
He then says, in 30 years, the prime minister of this country will share our faith.
That's what he then goes on to say.
And then he gets a rapturous applause by thousands upon thousands of Muslims.
It's like, they're actually telling us what they're doing.
And still, we're not stopping it.
They're very open.
You don't have to have...
I always say, you don't have to listen to what I say.
Just listen to what they say.
The Didsbury Mosque, we've got a video going out later on the Didsbury Mosque, which is the mosque that Salman Abadie, the terrorist who blew the children up in Manchester, went to.
When I've gone through what they're preaching and what they're promoting in that mosque, and the fact it's still open, it's insane.
How weak we are in dealing with this issue.
Lighting a few candles after a terrorist attack.
We should be sending our military in Closing down these hate centres, gripping the people up, deporting them.
Out of the 3,000, even just this last one, this last one last week in London, one of the men was a failed asylum seeker.
He got asylum by marrying an English convert, which seems to be, looking at the facts of it and listening to witnesses and friends of her, it was a bogus marriage.
So then he stayed in our country and he ends up killing people.
Now, He was on a terror watch list at some point.
He'd come across our security services eyes.
We have 3,000.
If half of them are not born in the UK, it's not difficult.
They should be gone.
If you've got 450 ISIS fighters coming back, that's not hard either.
They shouldn't be back.
As you pointed out, Sadiq Khan says, well, we don't have the resources to tackle this kind of stuff, but they do seem to have a lot of resources to go after people like you.
So one thing you could do is take some of the, I don't even know how many billions of pounds have been spent pursuing you and other people.
You could theoretically take some of those resources and pursue it to these other Well, Sadiq Khan, we haven't got the resources, but he's just opened a centre for online hate.
So a big, massive centre with hundreds and hundreds of employees who are going to tackle online hate.
Now, what that means, online hate, we all know it means tackle criticism of Islam.
So we can see straight away where things are going.
And Sadiq Khan is, I think, was it Farrah Khan?
Farrah Khan, he was trying to get into the UK before he'd become MP, before he'd become Mayor of London.
And I don't know if you've read in the story about Af Salah Min.
This is the problem here.
Af Salah Min, for your viewers who don't know, he was a captain in the British Army for 10 years, and he's a Muslim.
And he was then running, he was part of the Conservative Party, and the election was in a number of weeks.
And this is how bent they are.
He'd approached me, and he was offering me money to work with him, to work for him, to fake stage an English Defence League demonstration.
And then what I would do is, a week before the demonstration, Afzal Ahmed would be pictured with me, and then I'd cancel the demonstration because Afzal had asked me to.
And I respected him because he was a captain in the British Army.
And all of this was going on.
And I recorded the whole lot.
And when I recorded it, I went for meetings with the men who he was working for.
So he was going to be an MP. He had been asked to sit on the cabinet in our country by David Cameron.
When I went to the meeting, he had gangsters there.
Pakistani Muslim gangsters whose friends have been involved in gang killings.
They owned about 100 businesses.
They own so many businesses, these men.
Multi-millionaires.
Now, they were funding Afzal Amin.
What they said is, if Afzal gets in, then we have a man on the inside.
And then if the police are giving us problems, we can just get them to go away.
So I sat there and thought, so you're standing for the Conservative Party, but you're working for these two men.
And all of this is tape recorders on undercover footage.
I then asked them, are you Conservatives?
They said, no, we're Labour.
So they support Labour, but they're paying him to get in there.
Now, once I exposed all this, it was massive news in the UK, and he disappeared.
He hasn't come back since.
I think he's in Somalia.
He had already secured, which on tape he admitted, he'd secured millions and millions of funding from Qatar for his town that he was going to be MP for.
He was going to regenerate that whole entire town.
So in the future years, when the election comes, everyone would look at his history.
Captain in the British Army, he'd have regenerated an entire town, got everyone in work, got millions and millions of pounds.
He said to me, I don't plan on being an MP, I plan on leading this country.
He was halfway there.
When I exposed him, then the media had done a digging campaign into him.
What they found is leaflets, two weeks before he joined the British Army, as a captain in the military, two weeks before he went to Sandhurst, they found leaflets where he said, basically, what we need to do is form in our formations, and then the Mesuradi, this is in Britain, that our Mesuradi will come out attacking them, and all the kaffir will have to be subjugated.
All these leaflets of hate.
So he went and done 10 years undercover, basically, Working for the other side as a captain, he was almost a leading MP. Almost.
If I didn't find him out and expose him, he could have, by now, or in four years' time, been Prime Minister of our country.
How many other Muslims who are in positions of power, which has come out with many of them, like Baroness Varsi, they're not working for that manifesto of that political group.
They're working for Islam.
And we see this time and time again.
Now, the Mayor of London is no different.
At all.
If you go through his links, go through who he's worked with, go through what he said in the past, we have now a man in control of London.
We had another Muslim mayor who'd done exactly the same in Tower Hamlets.
He got into power.
I think he had a billion pound budget.
He got into power.
He stopped all the money that was being funded to moderate groups or anyone moderate.
It was all being siphoned off to his more extremist radical groups.
The first thing he...
This will sound unbelievable as well.
The first thing he wanted to do when he got in power...
We've put million-pound sculptures of headscarves at the entrance to Tower Hamlets.
We are just such morons in this country.
Our whole system's being infiltrated with people with a completely different agenda to take over our country.
And whilst they're doing it, our politicians are supporting them and helping them.
And once you guys are open to it...
Well, no, no, I appreciate what you're saying.
And to me, it comes back to the media.
It's not the beginning and the end, not the total alpha and the omega, but it does come back to the media.
I think people are very concerned about how things are going to be framed.
And there has been, you know, radical Islamic elements have allied in the past with leftists, with socialists and so on.
We've got Bin Laden...
On tape, on Al Jazeera, saying, well, you know, the Mujahideen have a lot in common with the socialists in taking down, you know, the system that exists in the West.
And I think that the left-wing infiltration of the media, to me, is the major issue because that is how all of these events get framed and presented to the public, who often, you know, busy, they've got jobs, they're raising kids and so on.
They don't have time to dig into all the roots of these histories and And this is where I think the unique opportunity of the internet of what's called the alternative media, otherwise known as the slightly less of an agenda media, I think has a great opportunity in getting the word out.
I mean, I was really struck by how much with the EDL, you organize things online.
You got things going online, which would have been very tough to do.
You know, in the old days, if you wanted to try and get a demonstration going, you had to, you know, use leaflets, which could be picked up.
Or you'd had to take out an ad in the newspaper, which they might not want to take and so on.
Now it's very easy to organize, you know, for good people and the not so good people.
It's very easy to organize online and get information out in an alternative context.
But I think it's the mainstream media throughout the West that to me are the real challenges.
Because they frame everything that happens in a way, as you point out, if you're not totally on the left, you're just far right.
There's just no question about it.
Any kind of nationalism, far right.
Any kind of appreciation for your own culture and your own history, your own far right.
And so they have a great deal of problems with this far right ideology, but not so much with more extremist ideologies from overseas.
That's why I sit quite happily, you know, This is why people like your show, Rebel Media, Infowars, these organisations...
So last week, the last video I put on Facebook has been viewed since yesterday by 7.7 million people.
So...
Old media meeting the new media, which is what I can't tell you quite satisfactorily, because all the years that they've done this to us, all the years that I've had of reading their stories and people reading their stories, and now I think I'm just going to reach straight into those people's lounges and straight onto their phones, and I'm going to give them the facts.
We're going to give them the truth.
We're going to show them the opposite sides.
We're going to show them what's really happened.
And I think after the Westminster attack, On video views, we had 30 million that week of my previous videos.
That's speeches.
So I take satisfaction now at this moment.
I can see something huge happening.
My book, even my book, my book has sold out today.
It's gone to number one four times in the last three months.
People are waking up.
People are hearing our story now.
People are hearing what we're saying.
And that's happening.
So that's why I sit there when I go up to previous journalists.
I look at The Guardian and I think, well, you're going out of business.
No one's listening to you.
You can have your little daily politics show where 200,000 people watch it.
I've done a live stream yesterday that a million people watched.
So we now have an opportunity to get the truth, to speak to the public.
And that must be killing them.
It must be killing them.
Because for years they've had control.
That control, they can feel it slipping away.
They can feel it slipping away.
And we can all see it slipping away.
They're going to become less and less relevant as we go through the years.
And people like ourselves are going to become more and more relevant.
And that must be killing them.
And the best thing about it is that people are dying to hear.
They're so desperate to hear the opposite side.
I can see now, when there's a terrorist attack in the UK, people aren't watching BBC. They're not watching BBC. They're searching for us.
That's the reality.
You can see that by the statistics and the facts of how many people are watching.
They're not listening to them.
So they may as well have had their upper hand for years.
You're right, we're in the position we are because they've been working with them.
If you look at who holds the money, so say, for example, the Birmingham Mail, which is a newspaper, when I organised a demonstration, they run just lies.
I rang them up, and you can watch this video on YouTube, I rang them up and I spoke to him, and he said, well, yes, we have a political agenda against you.
I said, you have an agenda against me?
Well, you're not just...
Because to most people, we know this, we've been in this years.
To most ordinary people, I think the media just...
Their job is just to report the truth, to give the story.
So he openly, we have an agenda against you.
Then you look into the funding, where the funding comes...
They're part of the Trinity Mirror group, who have a lot of Muslim money involved in their papers.
And when I go back through...
The Trinity Mirror basically own the majority of local newspapers in every town and city.
So they own the Luton paper in my town.
They own Birmingham.
They own Cardiff.
They own a lot of them.
So then every time any image is given of us, and this is done on purpose throughout the whole country, it's a negative image and a negative portrayal of us, what we stand for, what we do.
And it's been like that for years.
So they've been able to sway people.
I have people who I walk up and meet who hate me.
They don't even know why they hate me.
They've been told for years they've been lied to.
And I've had so many people who have been so angry.
I've had people who have watched my Oxford Union speech, which I gave in 2014.
It was the first opportunity I had for an hour because it was the first chance I've had in six years.
Every time I got an interview, I'm used to speaking fast.
I may be doing it now because I'm used to trying to get my point in because I was just cut down and beaten down and stopped every time by an interviewer.
The only time they got me on BBC or on the TV was when they thought they were going to crucify me.
Every time.
I had an hour and 15 minutes to give them, this is who I am.
This is my story.
Let me tell you why this happened at Oxford University.
And you can see why they're so desperate to no-platform us, to prevent us talking.
Because I walked into that university and no one would talk to me.
None of the students would speak with me.
By the time I finished my hour and 15-minute speech, they were all asking for selfies.
So I had so many people who said, I'm so angry I've been lied to.
And I have so many people message me every day now.
I reckon I could put up 20 or 30 messages a day from people who say, I used to hate you, and I'm sorry.
I've got you wrong.
I was lied to.
I can't believe what they did, what they've done, as in the media.
I can't believe the job they've done.
I said, no, they did.
And at times, I'm honest, I didn't help myself at times.
It's my background I'm from and the character I have.
But, yeah, I sit happily present, knowing that we're about a revolutionised media in the UK. Does it strike you as, you know, we all of us go through our day and, you know, you deal with the fires and the battles and the tensions and the excitements and the breakthroughs of the particular day.
Do you ever get that, you know, hot air balloon, look at your own life and say, wow, you know, I was going to work in aeronautics.
I was going to do all this other stuff and it's like...
Tide came in, Tide went out.
I mean, it's a wild thing when you think about it, just how much, you know, relative to where you came from, relative to what you wanted to do with your life, as to where you are.
What's that like for you?
I've had that.
Do you know, so the first time I had that was 2012.
So when we started the English Defensively, I didn't look at anything.
It was just, boom, full straight steam ahead.
And I didn't think about anything either.
And then I had 22 weeks on solitary confinement and I lay there thinking about my life and thinking about what's happened and Thinking about my family, what I've done to them, thinking about all the side effects.
That was the first time I needed a break in my life and prison was a break at that time.
And then I've changed and everyone changes.
So I've gone up and down in what I'm thinking, where I'm going.
Right now, I can honestly say, and if any government agencies or police forces are sitting there that played their part in doing this, you have chiselled my character.
I don't think there's anything I can't face.
For what I have faced currently.
I don't think there's anything.
So you've done everything from being, from violence to prison to, and all of that has played a part.
Do you know what, and Stefan, I would not change one bit of it.
I wouldn't change one single thing because I wouldn't change a negative part.
So I wouldn't change being locked in a room in prison.
I wouldn't change being beaten up.
I wouldn't be, I wouldn't change any of that because all of that has played a part to get me to where I am, to give me the, not just the belief, but the life experience that I've had.
It has been some life experience.
And yeah, I feel currently now, which I have to laugh about, because everything they've tried to do to stop it, I feel more dedicated and more focused on this mission than I've ever been.
Ever.
And yeah, so I look at them and I think about, and I know the lengths, if you've read my book, I know the lengths they've gone to to shut it up.
And I say mental torture at times.
Mentally tortured they've done with my family, with what they've done.
And now I know that I have the full support.
You know, in the early years, I didn't have the support of my family in what I was doing.
I didn't have the support at all.
I had my family crying their eyes out daily, begging me, begging me, begging me to stop.
I currently have the support of everyone.
So, unfortunately, I've been proved right.
The things I've been said and warned about are happening now.
Yeah, I feel in a good place.
And do you know what else, Stephen?
It was a lonely place for many years in what we were doing.
It also, it was a lonely place and people would always say, you're not on your own, you're not on your own, we're with you, we're with you.
I remember sitting there at times thinking, you're not with me, man.
I'm on my own here.
When I went to jail in 2012 and my family had nearly been made homeless, I was on my own.
I'm not on my own anymore and I know that.
I know that from when I had another court case that they put me on.
And I felt defeated at that time.
And this was only going back two years.
And I felt defeated.
And I wasn't even fighting with it.
And a friend, a friend come to me, a lady who I've met through this, and said, I want to get you the top QC. I want to help you get the top QC. And I said, there's no point, no matter what you do, I'm going to prison.
I know the system.
Everything's against me.
And then there was a donation campaign that went out.
And £30,000 was raised in a week.
And I remember sitting there thinking, I'm not alone yet, and this is touching people.
And from now, I know if I walk out there, the most recent case that you'd have seen just a number of weeks ago, that I was dawn raided, I was reporting on Muslim men who had raped a young girl, and the state were trying to silence me again.
But straight away there was a campaign.
I walked into that courtroom the next day with not one QC, but two.
Yeah.
Because now I can sit here and I know I've got support.
I know I'm on my own.
I know that no matter what they throw at me, I'm going to have the backing of the general public in fighting against it.
So I sit in the most confident place I've been, the most focused I've been, and knowing, look, our cause and what we say is righteous.
There's nothing wrong about it.
And we've known that for years.
I've known that for years.
Only now the general public can realise it.
So I'm in a happy place and...
I'm enjoying every minute of what I'm doing in a minute.
Right, and I would invite people who have heard negative things about Tommy to...
You don't have to go into solitary.
You can just sit in your room and just, you know, maybe turn the lights off, stare in the darkness, and think, what is so objectionable?
I mean, what is it that you want?
You want pedophile child rapists and groomers to face legal consequences?
Is there any...
Thank you.
law.
You don't hate any particular group or any particular race.
You just want to have a fair shake for everyone in the country, equality under the law, and for children to be protected.
Please, I invite everyone to look into their hearts and explain what is so objectionable about all that.
Well, what we find is, which we found at, what was it, Kate, in the day, York University.
When I went to York University, so this man said, well, I just, I don't like you.
I said, okay, why don't you like me?
And this is, again, it's on Rebel Media.
Why don't you like me?
He goes, well, the things you say.
I said, okay, like what?
He goes, well, you want to support all Muslims.
No, I don't.
I've never, ever said that in my life.
Okay?
So all the things that he thought are all misconceptions of me, and I've never, ever said any of the things that So I've never said that.
I don't even believe that.
I've never said that.
But all of these people, they've been lied to.
So part of me doesn't blame them.
I blame the media.
I blame the campaign, which has been a very good campaign against us.
But they're failing because we're still here.
So, yeah, I don't blame people.
But I find that the things that they think they dislike me for, the things they think I represent are not what I represent or what I've ever said, ever.
You're right.
I'm actually...
I'm actually quite, I'm liberal in my views on everything.
I just have a very big problem with Islam and the fascism within it.
That's it.
So I say, what's the big deal?
And I also separate Muslims from Islam.
I think Muslims are the first victims of Islam.
So I want to help them leave.
Right, right.
Well, Tommy, I really, really appreciate your time today.
I want to point out that you will, to those listening and watching this, you will enormously profit from a very powerful and at times funny book called Enemy of the State.
You can check out Robbie's work with The Rebel Media at therebel.media forward slash Tommy Robinson with an underbar between the two names, twitter.com forward slash T Robinson, New Era. See, I need to spell all this stuff out because a lot of people just listen to the podcast and facebook.com forward slash the Tommy Robinson.
Tommy, thanks so much for your time today.
I really appreciate the work that you're doing bringing these issues to the forefront with people against some enormous mind-bending opposition.
