April 24, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
44:34
3662 Antifa Violence Exposed | Jack Posobiec and Stefan Molyneux
On April 23rd, 2017, TheRebel Media Washington Bureau Chief Jack Posobiec was assaulted near George Washington University, where Antifa was having what they called a "Bloc Party" to recruit new members to their organization. In the aftermath of threats against the Deploraball, the continued assault of Trump supporters and the Battle for Berkeley: when will the terrorist threats and violence end? Jack Posobiec is a journalist and the Washington Bureau Chief for The Rebel Media.Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiYC0ZsZyWoTwitter: http://www.twitter.com/JackPosobiecWebsite: http://www.therebel.mediaYour support is essential to Freedomain Radio, which is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by making a one time donation or signing up for a monthly recurring donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
It's Stefan Molyne from Freedomain Radio here with Jack Posobiec.
Now, you may have seen Jack Posobiec being on the receiving end of a fairly poorly aimed knuckle sandwich from somebody, an Antifa fellow recently.
We'll link to that video below.
So we're going to start, though, just getting a little backstory for those of you who don't know Jack.
You don't know Jack about Jack.
I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about yourself, of course, for those who don't know.
He is a journalist and the Washington Bureau Chief for The Rebel Media, twitter.com forward slash Jack, P-O-S-O-B-I-E-C, Jack Posobiec, and the website is therebel.media.
We'll link to those below.
Jack, welcome to the show.
I wonder how you might go about introducing yourself to this audience.
Yeah, thanks, Stefan.
Happy to be here.
Thanks so much for having me on today.
Long-time listener, first-time caller.
But yeah, I come from, by the way, I'm a former political operative in the United States that worked a lot of campaigns on the Republican side, both at the state level, the local level, four presidentials to include President Trump's campaign.
At one point, I kind of got fed up with all that, so I walked away from it and I said, you know, forget this, no more politics for me, I'm done with it, because we kept winning and nothing would happen, you know.
The Republicans would get in, nothing would change.
And so I quit that, joined the U.S. Navy for a few years, and stuck in that, was doing that, got out of it pretty much around when Trump came in, so stayed in the reserves.
But when Trump came around and I said, you know what, there might actually be a chance that we can do something here.
And I felt compelled enough to want to throw myself into that.
So that's what I did for about the second half of 2016.
And then my exploits seem to have opened new doors for me back in the media field.
So here I find myself working in D.C. for Rebel Media.
And it's just been a lot of fun and just kind of following the ride wherever it goes at this point.
Yeah.
So you went from apolitical to political.
Gosh, I wonder what that's like.
I wonder if I might someday experience that, say, in my own life.
Actually, I already have.
So what is, I mean, the big story at the moment, of course, and, you know, you want to show people your Luke Skywalker hand as you refer to it.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I've got it there.
It's really good.
The microchips and the crystals all go right in here and you just power it overnight.
It's cool.
It's great.
So, what's the story behind how you got that injury and what's happening at the moment?
Sure.
So, the latest update is that I went down to an Antifa event that was going to be happening yesterday in D.C. Now, there's been a lot of these groups in D.C. in the past, but they haven't specifically been Antifa.
It's just sort of been this hodgepodge of rebellious youth and sort of holdovers from the 60s and 70s that never really outgrew the hippie phase.
And They were causing a lot of violence around the deplorable, around Trump's inauguration, and just random acts of violence throughout the area.
So today, or I guess yesterday, was supposed to be their big coming out and saying, we are now Antifa DC. So this was supposed to be their big rebranding effort, and they were holding what they called a block party, believe it or not, at George Washington campus, right down, probably just a few blocks away from the White House.
And so I thought I'd go down and cover it to say, hey, you know, you guys are the same people that sponsored violence against my event, the Deplora Ball.
You're the people who sponsored violence in Berkeley.
You have a history of violence with this organization, Antifa.
And so why, why, right?
Why are you committed to this violence?
Why won't you disavow this violence?
Why do you perpetuate it as a means of getting your political motives, your political agenda across, right?
So in the midst of doing that, as soon as immediately as I got there, They started screaming, Nazi at me, you're a Nazi, you're a fascist, and I'm like, wow, I'm surprised you guys even know who I am.
But apparently they already know that, you know, they think that I'm some sort of Nazi or something.
Trying to talk to them about all this.
And then at one point, a gentleman in a bicycle, I'm not much of a gentleman, about the same height as me, tattoos everywhere, the neck, the face, screams, where's the Nazi, where's the Nazi?
They all point at me and say, there's the Nazi, there's the Nazi.
He runs over and attempts to sort of punch, interestingly enough, not me in the face, but he attempts to hit my camera, which I think is kind of telling.
Because I've got, you know, as I usually do, I've got a camera going, I've got a stream going, I've got some friends across the street or nearby that have got cameras going.
So we try to film everything, right?
So I thought it was interesting that he tried to strike the camera to stop the evidence, the communication getting out.
Then he pulls away, immediately screams, he hit me.
Police come over, arrest him.
Antifa comes over and goes, oh, he was screaming racial epithets, and he was being disruptive, and this was self-defense.
But this is a white guy, right?
As far as I could tell, he looked pretty white to me.
I mean, I've never met him before.
So I'm not sure exactly what racial epithets, not that it would justify anything, but what racial epithets would you be screaming at that would even give a cover for some kind of violence?
Doesn't make any sense.
But I guess it's just the scream of racism is what they've got, right?
Right.
So I showed the video for the police officers.
They look at it.
I posted the same video to my Twitter account, where I think the last thing I actually say is, They're saying, get the Nazi.
And I said, I'm not a Nazi.
And then he just swings out of nowhere.
So no racial epithets.
And he'll actually be having a hearing probably in about an hour's time from when we're recording this in D.C. at the U.S. Attorney's Office.
Because, interestingly enough, because D.C. is a federal city, when you commit crimes like that on the streets of D.C., it is a felony.
There is no local jurisdiction for that.
It goes straight to the federal level.
Right.
And one of the things, of course, that is very vivid about this video is because he punches the camera, it literally looks like you're getting punched in the eye when you're watching it.
I mean, there is a sort of cobra strike vividness to it that is really quite compelling.
And I don't think people realize, Jack, that if you are a non-leftist, And this is extreme.
I hate this extreme phrase.
Le Pen, extreme, far right, massive, you know.
But I don't think people really understand that it is risky.
It is physically dangerous to attempt social gatherings, to attempt public speaking if you're not on the left, or if there's any way they can credibly attach the sort of hysteria label of Nazi to you, that there is a significant amount of physical danger in public speaking that there is a significant amount of physical danger in public speaking in America at And it is something that's really, really hard for people to grasp.
But I think they really need to focus on it, right?
Because there's the theory of the right of free speech, and then there's the practice of the right of free speech.
And, you know, as far as I'm concerned, if you disagree with the speaker, sure, come on out, you know, ask the tough questions, you know, hand out leaflets, you can protest, you know, come and you can't disrupt.
That's not fair.
That's not reasonable.
But I certainly support the right of people to disagree vociferously with those around them.
But yeah, the moment you stepped the line to like, you know, pulling the acid attack and the deplorable that was being planned, or, you And actually, the guy who planned the acid attack at the deplorable was present there on the street, and you can see him in the video.
So, something that we hadn't picked up on earlier, but going back and watching the film, I think a few people pointed out, they said, hey, wait a minute, who's that guy in the windbreaker off to the side?
That's actually Luke Kuhn, the guy who planned the acid attack on the deplorable.
Who wanted to put acid basically into the air filtration systems.
He had purchased tickets to an event that my mother was at, my father was attending, my brother, my girlfriend, everyone was coming.
And he's actually on probation right now, and it looks as though he may have broken his probation by attending this event yesterday.
So we actually kind of inadvertently caught that on this tape as well.
And they seem to think that this violence, that this idea of violence to them is is part and parcel of just moving along their agenda, that there's no difference between lashing out against somebody rhetorically or with ideas than there is with fisticuffs.
And actually, someone alerted me that their Facebook page earlier in the day, I posted something on Twitter, hey, I'm headed down to George Washington University, if anybody's around, come on down.
They actually took that tweet of mine And took my image and my name, posted it to their Facebook hours before the event, and said, come down to see the fascists, with my name right on there.
So I sent that all over to the police, but it looks like it may be something where this may have been a setup.
They were trying to set me up in order to get me to come out.
And then there's people there that are smart enough to know not to be the one to throw the punch, right?
But you set up all the factors so that, you know, someone will throw the punch.
And then you can say, oh, it wasn't me, you know, but look, you know, this guy did it.
But then they get what they wanted eventually with, you know, somebody getting hurt or somebody getting hit.
But, you know, in this case, it didn't work out that well for them.
The guy, you know, hit me, but I didn't even drop the phone.
They sent a featherweight at Jack Posobiec.
And you got to send a heavyweight if you're going to Jack Posobiec.
Well, the thing is, too, I mean, if they can get this general confusing melee going, then that gives free license to the mainstream media to say, mysterious clash erupts at, you know, pro-Trump or whatever it is, right?
They never say, you know, Trump supporters or free speech supporters attacked by black-clad violent gangs.
What they say is, you know, there's this mysterious clash.
Well, you were out there speaking freely and someone came up and punched you.
Yeah, and so that's something where, you know, I saw how they covered the Berkeley events, and that's something I was trying to follow up with Antifa.
But if you look at any of those headlines, it's Trump supporters, alt-righters, neo-Nazis.
You never see anything about the leftists that are the ones that...
No, hold on a second.
The Trump supporters were the ones holding the event.
These people came to disrupt the event and cause violence.
It wasn't the other way around.
This time around, I came to their event.
I did.
You know, admittedly.
And I didn't bring violence.
I didn't bring, you know, bike locks like we saw with the professor out at Berkeley.
What I did bring, what I did bring, Stefan, I brought a 12-pack of Pepsi and I tried to hand Pepsi to them.
I said, I thought it would be a peace offering because I believe everything that advertising tells me.
And advertising tells me that Pepsi is the drink of choice of the resistance.
And Kendall Jenner, you know, the one true Kendall Jenner, the purveyor of truth, Well, yeah, I didn't realize that Princess Leia's last name was Kardashian.
That's unusual.
Well, it was before she was adopted.
That's what it was.
Right.
Now, you've done a little bit of work into the history of these kinds of groups.
I wonder if you could tell people what you've learned.
I have.
And so that's something where, you know, they've been out, you know, since, you know, even early 2016, back in 2016 at the DNC. My brother and I were there covering things and they were, you know, they were the Bernie supporters and there was also Antifa.
And the Bernie supporters kind of pushed away from Antifa.
So, you know, we don't want to be associated with those guys.
Those guys are crazy.
They burn flags.
They, you know, shop at the ISIS wardrobe department.
And, you know, we don't want to be associated with them.
So...
Looking into it some more, I found that they actually came around in the 1920s.
The term anti-fascist, and I'll lay all this out in a video at Rebel Media, it came from antifacismo, right?
And that's an Italian word that came up from the Mussolini regime in Italy, saying that these are the enemies of fascism.
What they were though was these international sort of combat units That were founded by Leon Trotsky, of all people, as a way of going in and subverting and undermining political systems in countries for communism to then come in on the backs of the violence.
So the USSR, the Communist Party at the time, was funding these groups, Antifa, in Germany, in Italy, in other places around Europe, to make it look like they were destabilizing the system.
And so to create this idea that the legitimate government, whatever government was in power at the time, That should then be overthrown and that this new communist, right, then the Communist Party would come in and say, oh, we'll take care of these guys.
You know, you just come and support us and we'll get rid of these people and we'll get rid of those idiots that couldn't deal with them.
So that's really what they're looking for.
And the people that are, you know, involved with Antifa today, they don't even realize this.
You know, I went up and asked them some of this stuff.
I said, do you guys realize that you're being played by people like George Soros, by people like Trotsky that have been doing this in the past?
They want you to be committing violence.
They want you to be the useful idiots so that then they can turn around and say, oh, look, you know, Trump couldn't take care of this or the government couldn't take care of that.
You know, we've got to be able to come in and push more laws, more legislation or different political parties in this case.
In essentially the kind of hoax that's been going on for almost a century now.
Well, and I literally thought at the beginning, before I realized what anti-fascist, I thought it was anti-FA, anti-First Amendment.
I just made that complete mistake, although that could arguably be a more accurate description of their modus operandi.
I think it's about the same thing.
And there's that quote that, you know, fascism will come in the form of anti-fascism.
Well, of course, you know, Nazis are...
I guess we'll go back to the Blues Brothers movie when I was a kid, you know?
I mean, I hate Illinois Nazis.
Nazis, of course, you know, in video games, it's the one group, of course, that is outside any kind of discourse.
Now, obviously, National Socialism, no sane person has a particularly positive view of that kind of movement, but...
This, of course, is they would pick on the least popular people and try and arouse popular sentiment against those least popular people.
But, of course, the whole point of having things like the First Amendment, freedom of association, freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, the whole point of that is, of course, nobody cares about I like my cat speeches.
I mean, the whole point is the challenging speeches, the speeches that really offend your sensibilities.
That's exactly...
What it's for, this idea that we can just paint an entire group as so demonic that we can just unleash all of the demons of violence against them, that's how these principles get broken.
And, you know, we have to defend, even if there was a genuine Nazi gathering, as long as they're not using violence, they need to have the right for free speech, because if they lose it, it's a slippery slope to everyone.
Exactly.
I mean, it's, look, you want to have a platform, give a platform.
I tell people that I'm the only journalist out there that's interviewed both Richard Spencer and Rosie O'Donnell, you know, within the span of a week.
And I'm all about that.
I'm all about saying, look, you have a platform.
Tell me where you're coming from.
Tell me where your beliefs are.
Let's hear what you have to say.
If people think you're an idiot, then they're free to think you're an idiot, right?
You know, that's part of freedom, too.
That's part of freedom of speech.
And have that out there.
But...
When you have people now coming in, and these Antifa groups are putting up memes saying, like, we beat them before, and showing a picture of a Nazi being stabbed with a bayonet, and then we'll beat them again, and then showing somebody in, you know, a Make America Great Again hat with a Pepe pin being stabbed with a bayonet.
Now you're demonizing the other side.
Now you're turning them into, it's the same type of propaganda, hilariously enough, that Goebbels would love.
This idea of demonizing your opponent, demonizing the other in the argument in ways that you can commit inhuman acts to them because, well, they are already inhuman in your eyes.
Well, this, I mean, the hypocrisy of the left, which generally focuses, as you're right, on being inclusive and not alienating other people and trying to understand other people's point of view and so on.
I mean, I've seen the left try to sympathize with ISIS and so on, you know, arguably somewhat worse than Trump supporters.
And this idea, of course, that you can just create this demonology and then unleash all the violence you want against that demonology.
This is how this kind of violence spreads.
And what happens, of course, is it does become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Because if they say, well, you know, the right is so evil, they're going to use violence.
And then you keep attacking people on the right when they gather together peacefully to discuss ideas, to exchange thoughts.
Then, of course, as we saw with the Battle of Berkeley, at some point, people are going to say, well...
You know, I watched Revenge of the Nerds 2, so to speak, and I'm tired of being pushed around, and they're going to fight back.
And then it's like, aha, you see?
We told you they were violent.
We were right.
And so from a security perspective, you know, one thing that we'd look at in my military training is you talk about de-escalating, defusing situations, and defusing stuff like this, but now we're seeing there's videos out there I haven't published on this yet, but I'm going through soon, about these Antifa people and they're holding They're holding, hey, let's have a day at the gun ranges, and let's go do weapons training, and let's go do, you know, push for more and more.
And so even if they're not actually planning on mass insurrection, now that video is out there, now that meme is out there, so now people on the other side are going to say, oh, well, if they're bringing guns, what do we need to have?
We've got, you know, a guy in a hockey mask with a piece of wood.
Maybe he needs to have something further.
So the escalation continues and continues.
Now there's groups talking Coming out there saying, but at the same point that you made, if you don't have security, if you don't have people that are there to protect you, if you don't have people there as a group, now you know, I know that I've been targeted.
I know that other people have been targeted.
It's going to continue.
So where does the escalation stop?
Where does it stop?
And you get both sides to say, okay, we disavow violence.
And that's why in the video, there were a lot of people that said to me, they said, Jack, you know, you're a Navy guy.
You're a big guy.
Why didn't you go and just, you know, give him one four and crack him down in the street and get his bike and start hitting him with it.
And I said, look, man, the minute I do that, the minute I do that, number one, that's illegal because he had already disengaged me at that point.
And if I'm chasing him down the street, now that's not self-defense.
Now that's me assaulting him.
In the street, he's disengaged.
Number two, now I'm doing what they want me to do because now they can say, oh, look, here's Jack Posobiec beating a guy in the street.
And they'll cut off the fact that he hit me and everything.
And the media will be able to muddy the waters and say, oh, both of these groups are violent.
These are terrible.
We shouldn't listen to them.
We shouldn't listen to their opinion because they use violence.
And so that's why I'm firmly standing my ground and saying, look, I am not going to use violence.
If it comes to the point where I need to defend myself or, you know, someone I'm with, sure, okay, I'll use reasonable force, reasonable means necessary to defend myself, but you are never going to see anyone on our side going and saying, hey, there's an Antifa rally going on, let's go beat them up.
You're never going to hear that.
Right.
And of course, the irony of these groups portraying Trump supporters or free speech advocates as Nazis suitable for beating is that, of course, as you pointed out, the last time, at least in the West, I guess outside of the 60s, but the last time where this became a huge social problem was in the 20s but the last time where this became a huge social problem was in the 20s and the early 30s in Germany when the National Socialists were fighting with the communists And so, yeah.
And so if you're going to portray yourselves as Nazis, as Nazi fighting violent people, the people you would most identify with, in my mind, at least, are the feral communists in Germany in the 30s.
And the moment you start substituting fists for words, as you point out, where on earth does it stop?
And there do seem to be significant indications that after the Battle of Berkeley, there's a lot of doubling down from these aggressive groups.
Yeah, and I would have thought, I really would have thought, and this was me, you know, I didn't want to pre-bias any of my interviews at the event, but I would have very much thought from a branding perspective.
Or just from a moving forward perspective, that as a movement, Antifa would have said, you know what?
That battle of Berkeley got way out of hand.
That portrayed us in a way that does not convey our message.
That's not the road we want to go down.
We would rather be seen as intellectual and we stand against Trump for, you know, all of this litany of reasons.
And here's our manifesto and fall back on that.
But you didn't hear that.
You didn't hear anything like that.
You didn't hear anything like that they wanted to disavow the violence or move away from the violence.
Instead, it was, oh, we just need to be better at the violence, or we need to be able to beat them better.
And it's almost like their same...
You know, the same thinking of, well, you know, if we can just get socialism right next time, then it'll work.
We just get the right people.
I've actually had the Socialist Party international Twitter account has been trolling me pretty much all weekend about all this stuff, the same way that they've been trolling humanity for about the past 200 years.
And I don't even understand it because it's like, guys, this isn't going to work.
This has been tried.
I don't know how you can't see this.
They're like Dory.
You know, Dory in Finding Nemo with the memory problems.
You know, well, that one didn't work because it wasn't real socialism.
So let's try this again because that didn't work because it's real socialism.
So let's try it.
Anyway, we know how that runs.
We just have to explain it better.
We have to be better at the violence.
If we can just be a little bit more violent than them, then we'll win.
No, you see, now capitalism has developed a consumer-friendly version of the internet, and so now socialism plus internet, every time there's a new technological development, they think that stapling that new technological development onto socialism is going to magically transform it into production, because, you know, the internet totally solves the price problem.
Right, right.
I think that there are two – and tell me what you think.
I mean, you'd be more on the front lines than I have.
But there are, to me, two fundamental reasons for this escalation.
I mean, outside of the fact that people who use violence are just very bad at debating.
I mean, that's a confession.
You know, that's that – when I was a kid, you know, like if you get into a big argument with some friend of yours and he bursts into tears and runs away, well, clearly he lost the argument and that's not a – and it's the same thing.
someone like escalates violence against you, initiates use of force against you for speaking your mind, it's because they hate what you're saying, but they have no intelligent way to respond.
And that is a, to me, it's a confession of intellectual impotence, which, you know, when you have to get something done, but you can't do it through words, then of course, you're going to do it through violence if you're not willing to give up your goal.
But to me, there are sort of two main causes as to why this will escalate outside of the rhetoric of these groups, the media and the police.
And the media, of course, by not confronting these groups, by not demanding that they disavow, by not outing some of the stuff that you've outed about, and we'll get to this, these sort of three levels of violence and so on, or three levels of engagement that occur, because the media is not all over these groups demanding that they disavow the violence and exposing what's going because the media is not all over these groups demanding that they disavow the The fact that it's falling to Paul to find out who was wielding the bike locks, the fact that it's falling to other people to out all of it,
It was James O'Keefe who outed some of the deplorable attack plans and so on.
So the media is not doing their job.
The media is covering up.
And of course, the media is left and sympathizes probably with the violence in some ways or another.
And the other, of course, is the police.
I mean, the fact that the deplorable people got off with, what, community service and no record if they stayed on probation and so on, that to me is absolutely appalling.
I mean, what they were planning could have resulted in fatalities, as you point out.
You know, anyone who's planning an asset attack involving your mom, you're probably not going to be a huge fan of.
So in the absence of the media exposing and criticizing these groups and in the absence of the justice system applying the law in an even-handed manner to whoever initiates violence, they're going to keep getting away with it.
And hopefully that will change under sessions.
Hopefully that will change, you know, to whatever degree the Trump administration can bring these laws to bear on these outlaw groups.
But in the absence of the media turning on them and in the absence of a clear application of law, I mean, there's a lot of encouragement, if that makes sense.
It's essentially a moral hazard, right?
So it's a moral hazard in the sense that we got away with it, right?
We did all this that we set out to do.
We pushed the envelope, right?
We being Antifa, we pushed the envelope further and further and further and further, and there hasn't really been any systematic pushback against them.
You haven't seen any of these groups being arrested.
You haven't seen any of these groups being routed up.
There's like one or two people that have been outed, that have been taken down, but has it been by the police?
Has it been by the FBI? No, it's been by journalists and bloggers at 4chan, you know, guys going on anonymous message boards doing all this work.
And it's funny because we have these Here in the States, we have all this, the NSA and the FBI and all of these massive programs designed to protect us from these organizations that mean to do us ill will, mean to do us harm.
And it seems that I'm not sure what the billions and trillions are going to when it falls to a couple of guys on poll to go through someone's social media, find out what they look like, say, hey, this guy has these kind of shoes and this guy is there.
Oh, look at that.
That's him, you know?
So my question is, what exactly are the FBI doing when it comes to these groups?
We hear so much talk about the alt-right and white nationalists, and okay, you can talk about that, that's fine, but I haven't seen them committing violence.
I haven't seen them being committed to perpetual acts of violence or escalating acts of violence.
This group Antifa, though, you mentioned it, and I break this down a little in my video, is they call for these types, they call them direct actions.
It's a tactic that's stated on their blogs and in their rhetoric.
I'm surprised to find some of this stuff spoken about so freely.
You just go to their websites.
Crime Ethnic is one of theirs, where they kind of talk about these tactics.
They have these three levels of anti-thought, basically.
They call it red light, yellow light, and green light.
The Reds, they're the people that are willing to go and commit violence.
They're willing to commit theft, Anarchy, arson, assault in this case, right?
Interesting color choice, Jack.
I just wanted to point out that the reds are...
Anyway, I get it's a traffic light thing, but yeah, okay, go on.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's always the reds.
Yeah, better dead than red.
But then the yellows, the yellows are the ones that are complicit in it, but they're not willing to commit the acts themselves.
So the way I look at it is the yellows are more sort of running the reds.
They're the ones that are sort of directing and And orchestrating things, but not actually committing the acts themselves, right?
When I did counterterrorism work, this was sort of the way we looked at, you know, terrorist organizations.
You'd have, like, a leader that, you know, he wasn't, you know, strapping on a suicide vest himself.
No, you went and recruited people to go do that so you could go and live, you know, and then continue to do more of your mayhem and destruction and then get your willing pawns to go and do it for you.
Then there's these greens, and the greens are the ones that are just, they're sort of there, they're hangers-on, they're, you know, want to be part of the movement, whatever it is, but they're not really involved in any of the higher stuff or the lower stuff, depending on how you look at it.
But the reason, the reason that when you see them in their mass demonstrations, that they all wear black, and they stated very freely that they call these black blocks, B-L-O-C, not C-K. So going right back to, you know, Soviet...
So that you can't tell who's a red, who's a yellow, who's a green.
So the way it's supposed to work in these things is that someone commits an assault, right?
Someone comes out and punches a journalist.
Someone comes out and sets fire to the local Starbucks, whatever it is.
And then you can run into a group of the yellows and the greens and law enforcement or if there's any surveillance cameras, whatever it is, Can't tell which one of the ones that ran in there in this huge block because there's not enough going on.
However, because these tactics were developed long before internet, long before things like Poll, long before things like social media existed, stuff like that could work.
Now that we actually have people on our side that are going through and looking into these people, we actually can find, so very infamously, a few days ago, Poll was able to identify The individual at Berkeley who was using one of those U-shaped bike locks to go around and assault people, attack people in the streets, they actually outed him as a college professor, of course, in the Bay Area.
Oh, by the way, a college professor of philosophy who focused on ethics.
Yeah, you should have him on the show if he's allowed to have Skype in prison.
Because nothing says Socrates like a swinging bike lock.
Exactly.
I think they chipped one of his lectures, and he's talking about anarchist tactics in the streets.
I don't know.
I've listened to Free Domain Radio a few times.
I don't hear you talking about anarchist tactics enough.
I must have missed that episode.
It's called reason and evidence.
It's a little less metallic than a lot of these other quote arguments.
By clock, not an argument!
Madness.
So they identified him.
I just want people to remember this.
If you've seen Lord of the Rings, there's that all-seeing eye of Sauron.
Now that's, of course, a malevolent entity.
But Paul is like the benevolent all-seeing eye of Sauron that floats above the social landscape.
They will find you.
They know.
They are everywhere.
They are legion.
Paul, the genius of Paul, and, you know, all hail to the people who are doing the work, you know, Paul, doing the work that American security agencies just don't want to do.
I mean, they're just an incredible bunch of guys, and I've just, you know, all hats off to them.
And the work they did on Moldy Locks as well is quite, quite substantial.
I mean, finding her with the wine bottle and all this kind of stuff, it's remarkable.
And there's been times that you can even go back where they were in contact with a few people in Syria and And they were asking for, they had found a picture of, you know, some jihadis walking down this, like just walking down an alley somewhere in Syria.
I have to look up the details exactly where it was.
And somebody posted on Twitter and says, hey, can you guys find this?
Someone in the Syrian security forces.
Paul comes back on that and says, yeah, we found it right here.
It's right here on Google Earth.
This is the exact thing.
You can see the minarets right here.
It totally lines up.
The topography of the area totally matches.
And then they say, that's great.
And I'm like, oh, great.
Thanks for that.
About two hours later, a Russian drone strike comes in and wipes them all out.
They're like this magic eight ball that works.
It's like tapping into omniscience.
I just think it's the most amazing stuff.
Now, I try to get into the minds of other people.
This is an old Aristotelian argument or idea that a truly educated man can entertain an opposite thought without succumbing to it.
And so I do try and get myself into the minds of people who take this approach to political discourse, which is violence and all this kind of stuff.
And do you think that, you know, they view themselves as the Rebel Alliance, you know, everyone else is Darth Vader.
And, you know, just as Luke Skywalker could violate the non-aggression principle by sending some photon torpedo up the bowels of the Death Star, that they feel that there's such an extremity, that there's such an evil on the non-left side of things.
Do you think that they like to use violence and they're just kind of cruel people or mean people, or is it sort of this crime and punishment Dostoevsky and tightrope walk where, because they genuinely believe that there's so much evil on the non-leftist side of things, that they're heroic in their own mind?
I think it's a little of both to be honest.
I think there are people that genuinely do fall into that idea of thinking that we're Samurai, you know, fighting for the rights of the people and against this dystopian, tyrannical government of Trump.
And after all, that's what the mainstream media pushed for months and months and months.
That's what Trump was.
Trump was the second coming of Hitler, and you've got to stand up against him.
Well, and in their minds, if they're actually buying into that, if they're believing that, then to them it's, you know, of course you've got to stand up.
You've got to use violence.
You've got to use everything you can to stop Hitler, to stop genocide, because he's going to do these things.
But at the same time, and those, I would say, are using the color scheme, would be more of the reds, right?
They're the ones that are the true believers in what Antifa is doing.
But I think that the yellows, the ones that are more running the situation...
Because they're smart enough to not commit violence themselves and actually deploy these people forward ahead of them, that's actually an interesting situation because then you have to say, well, if you're so committed to this and if you're so committed to your belief in this, why aren't you right there on the front lines with all these other people committing the violence?
Why are you having people do it on your behalf?
Do you see yourself as a general or is it because you know that it's kind of all just Oh, no, I know.
Sorry to interrupt.
There's something along that, right.
And so then you've got someone that's thinking themselves into delusion, which we may see.
We call it the Louise Mensch syndrome.
Someone who's thought about something and focused on something so incredibly much that they've gazed into their navel so much that they fell in.
And if you look at some of this stuff, and it is important to read this stuff, If you accept the premises of what's being argued for, and, you know, there's ways to get there.
I'm not sure it's particularly just or rational, but there's, you know, sort of each way to get to the step of violence.
You know, the Trump administration is going to be attacking all of these helpless dependent minorities and women.
There are ways to get there in some vaguely Hegelian justified kind of way.
And it really is a different world from something, I think, a little bit more objective, you know?
And I think these two worlds, that America is split, and I think this is true.
I mean, you could just see this in the recent French election where all of the mainstream parties, particularly the socialist parties, completely fell away and outsiders are coming in.
We saw this with the Trump victory as well.
This sort of split where people don't have different ideas.
They literally live in different worlds.
They literally live.
Like, one group lives in a world where Trump was making fun of a disabled guy, and another group lives in a world where Trump makes fun of people, and that's the face and the gestures he makes whenever he makes fun of people.
And, you know, nothing like that.
One lives in a world where, you know, all these sexual assaults and all this attacks and racist things is happening, and the other lives in a world where it's like, well, a significant proportion of these, if not the outright majority, turn out to be hoaxes and this kind of stuff.
They live in a world of rape culture, and people are like, well, you know, rape is very rare, and men hate it, and it's been illegal for hundreds of years, and so it's not really rape.
Patriarchy versus, well, no, men are, you know, dicked around a lot by the system, family court systems.
Like, these two different worlds...
Not only do they not seem to have anything in common with each other, not even the photos, it seems like, but they're directly oppositional to each other, and that to me is the great colliding challenge.
We've got to find some place where we can meet, and the only place we can meet is in reality.
Two people creating fantasies on their own can't ever get along.
One very interesting moment that came out of my interactions, and I video this, I can post it later, I went up to a girl who was dressed in the black and the masks, and I said, why are you wearing the mask today?
You guys aren't doing your marching.
She said, well, you guys are going to dox me.
You guys are going to dox me, and then you can come after me.
And I said, wait a minute, hold on a second.
Doxing is something that you do to someone's anonymous internet account.
You're here on the streets, in reality, with me Standing and talking to you face to face.
This is reality.
This is not the internet.
We're not in a separate world right here.
This is the actual world where we are together communicating.
I'm not on a phone.
You're not on the phone.
I'm talking to you.
I don't need to dox you because you're standing in front of me.
But she couldn't wrap her mind around that idea of that there is an objective reality versus sort of the The internet virtual reality, if you want to just use that term, because that's almost what it is at this point, that exists that you can sort of plug into after the fact.
And the idea that the objective reality almost isn't, it's not as important because what matters is what your Twitter post is or how many followers or retweets or whatever you get out of it.
Well, she probably would think, well, look, they doxed this professor who was hitting people with bike locks.
They found out who he was and so on.
It's like, but that's because he was using a weapon.
That's sort of a different matter than facing the crowd.
And this funny thing, too, is that where – I don't know where the law is in various places in the United States, but one place where these groups were gathering, they were simply told to remove their masks, to remove their facial coverings, and they just left.
I mean, it's not that complicated to stop this escalation.
I actually spoke to an officer about that, and I just kind of mentioned to him, I said, hey, does D.C. have laws against that?
You know, what statute?
And he said, it's kind of vague.
You can wear masks in demonstration, but not when you're protesting against someone's personal residence.
Then you're not allowed to wear masks.
And that totally threw me for a loop, and I've got to look that one up to see how exactly that statute came about.
So where do you think this is going to head, Jack?
I mean, you've got some war wounds from these conflicts.
Do you – I mean, we've talked a little bit about some indications that there's going to escalate.
And this is the problem for me – sorry, I'm going to ask you a question, then go on a tiny speech.
I apologize for that in advance.
No, not you.
If you've watched this show for a while, you know that's not entirely rare.
But this is the problem is when you – Take rhetoric to the extremes of Nazi genocide.
When you throw your rhetoric that far out, how do you back down?
How do you de-escalate when you've brought Hitler-Nazi genocide into the conversation?
You've basically signaled ahead of time...
That all compromise will be moral weakness.
That any compromise of any kind, any de-escalation is going to be appeasing Hitler.
I mean, once that rhetoric comes out, it needs to be so strongly opposed, of course, unless you actually, unless you found Hitler, you know, in a vat, his brain, you know, electrically controlling the armies of Venezuela.
Like, okay, fine.
Then you can say Hitler, Hitler's brain is still alive in a fish tank in Venezuela.
Oh good, we have a show title.
But But once you bring that rhetoric to the fore, it seems like how can you possibly back down once you've got Nazi-Hitler genocide going?
I mean, there's no possibility, and that to me is the big concern.
The rhetoric is paving the way to this continual escalation.
Well, I think there's two tactics that can be used.
Number one, of course, is just the basic application of the law from getting, you know, right?
Now that you enforce the law!
Could work with immigration, too, theoretically.
What actually happened in this case where the assailant was arrested immediately.
I did press charges.
He's going to a hearing today.
That's happening.
So showing them that, yes, there are consequences for these actions.
This is not LARPing.
This is reality.
Actions have consequences and you will be put in jail, period.
Number two, the mimetic warfare, when it comes down to the idea of mockery When it comes down to these ideas of just using comedy, using humor to just sort of delegitimize them as this group that's out there doing nothing but committing violence, living in their parents' basements.
I was talking about, you know, I said kind of facetiously, but we might do it, you know, starting a new charity called Baths for Antifa, because I don't know if you've ever smelled any of these individuals, but believe me, they're not practicing good hygiene.
We can do a show on that later.
You know, this idea that if you're joining with these sides, they're nutjobs.
They're complete nutjobs.
You can use these tactics against ISIS, too.
I wish I would implore the Trump administration to use more of this stuff.
I was saying that instead of getting into this, we escalate, so you escalate, so they escalate, you know, you bring a knife, so I bring a gun kind of thing, you take a step back from that.
Down in Auburn, there was a guy who dressed up like a giant carrot, and he called himself the based carrot man.
And Antifa was out, and they were attacking, and he said, And he said, I don't care about your outrage.
He was just dancing around like a carrot.
And all of the students there were laughing and cheering the dancing of the carrot man.
And Antifa was completely just, it was a non-issue.
They said, we don't pay attention to you.
So while we don't meme them into reality, they've been memed into reality now, we can meme them out of reality through humor, through consciousness.
And eventually people are going to say that that group is stupid.
They're not a legitimate group.
Nobody should join them.
We've got to find another tactic because they're idiots, right?
It's like the KKK. There are no active, massive KKK organizations in the United States today, period.
There are these tiny little pockets of a group of guys that goes into the woods somewhere in the far, far deep south.
And CNN wants to act like that 515 guys is this massive, you know, network.
No, it doesn't exist.
The segregation does not exist in the United States.
We've moved so far away from that.
We can continue to move far away from that.
These groups can be, you know, taken out of power because we can take power away from them by not giving them power in the first place.
Well, one of the things that was pushed back against the – well, I mean, I always want to remind people of this, that the KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat Party.
Just remember that.
But it was Superman radio cartoons that had a lot to do with dismantling the KKK. They revealed all their secrets, made them jokes, made them goofy, and so on.
Humor as a weapon of warfare is entirely unrelated.
Sorry, it's entirely unremarked upon, and comedy as a weapon of war is incredibly potent.
Now, the left understands this, which is why SNL has drifted, well, far from funny for a long time, but closer and closer to the left at all times, and they're very, very powerful.
Comedians understand this very well, political comedians.
If you can laugh at someone, their power as an enemy is kind of destroyed.
I mean, the famous image of the lefty wedgie that has come recently out of this is very, very powerful.
And it is really, really tough to be scared of or take seriously people who can be literally, in this case, the butt of jokes.
So yeah, meme warfare is something entirely unappreciated or underappreciated.
Because we have this giant military-industrial complex and it doesn't take much pay.
In fact, they'll do it for free for the genius comedy of the internet to delegitimize an entire movement.
And so, yeah, if you get these memes, if you know these memes, share them, create them.
It is incredibly powerful.
It has a very, very key role to play in saving civilization as a whole.
I believe you're right.
Your JPEG may be more powerful than 59 cruise missiles.
Right.
Well, I want to take your time.
Thank you for taking the time today.
It was a great pleasure to chat.
Just wanted to remind people, twitter.com forward slash Jack, P-O-S-O-B-I-E-C. Check out Jack's great work at therebel.media.
Appreciate your time.
I'm sure we'll talk again and take care of that hand, man.
