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April 12, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
35:01
3649 Sweden Terrorist Attack | Ingrid Carlqvist and Stefan Molyneux
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Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Freedomain Radio, back with a good friend, Ingrid Kalkvist.
She is an independent journalist based in Sweden, emphasis on based, and the co-host of Norse News.
You can follow her on Twitter at twitter.com forward slash Ingrid Kalkvist.
That is I-N-G-R-I-D-C-A-R-Q-V-I-S-T. Hey, I think I just won at Scrabble.
Ingrid, great to chat with you.
How are you doing today?
I'm fine, thank you.
I'm happy to be back.
So Sweden is considered to be, by a lot of people, the canary in the coal mine when it comes to potential for what is, I guess, pleasantly called a multicultural, tolerant, open society.
And how have things been going over the last month or two in Sweden?
Well, it's like we're just going down and down.
Every week we have new gang rapes and murders and murder attempts and all the bad stuff.
And I think everybody has just been waiting for the big thing, the terror attack.
And some people say that The reason why we didn't have a terror attack before in Sweden is because we have been so nice to the terrorists.
You know, not charging the IS terrorists when they come back to Sweden, giving them jobs and apartments and so on.
And I think actually that might have been the policy of the Swedish politicians to just, you know, lay low, be nice, be friendly, and then they won't attack us.
But then it happened.
So let's talk about the truck attack that happened.
What happened and what has the reaction been?
I mean, there's the public reaction and then, of course, there's the private reaction, which we come to you for.
So what happened was that last Friday, a person...
An illegal immigrant from Uzbekistan.
He hijacked a lorry in central Stockholm.
He just grabbed the lorry.
He just took it when the driver was out delivering beer or something into a restaurant.
And then he just took the lorry and he drove right onto the street.
It's called Queen Street and it's one of the most busy streets A pedestrian street in the heart of Stockholm.
And it's actually just, you know, just a few yards from where the other suicide bomber only managed to kill himself in 2010.
And he just, you know, he took this lorry and he just drove as fast as he could.
And I'm really amazed that he only killed four people because this was terrible.
He intended to kill so many more and afterwards they found out that he had a kind of bomb device in the lorry.
So I think his main focus was to, you know, get that bomb working, but for some reason it didn't work.
So only four people died in this attack.
Well, and 15, of course, 15 injured.
And it's worth looking at and almost meditating over the photos of the bodies on the street are available and are as horrific as one can conceivably imagine.
And it's important to remember that when the Turkish boy, who was actually seemingly drowned by his own father's desire to get free health care, free dental care in the West, when he was drowned, We saw that body everywhere.
We saw the bodies of the chemical attack that occurred in Syria.
We didn't see these bodies.
European bodies do not show up in the media because it goes against leftist preferences and the fact that there is an online community that's able to get this information out there is one of the few things that is a ray of hope in this blackout of information about these kinds of attacks.
Yeah, and you know, all the Swedish journalists say that it would be unethical to publish these photos.
And I can sort of understand what they mean, because those photos were really horrible.
But if you are to understand how horrific these photos These terror attacks are, I think you need to see them.
It's like, you know, those videos where they cut people's heads off.
I force myself to see them now and then, because I really need to know how vicious these people are.
And of course, I feel for the parents of this 11-year-old girl, I saw that they were very, you know, very upset that these pictures had been going around on the Internet.
But their problem is not the pictures.
Their problem is that their little girl has been slaughtered like this.
So I think it's a good thing to see the pictures, even though they are really horrible or just because they are really horrible.
Well, and so Sweden's national state broadcaster, and this has become such a predictable script, it's almost not worth pointing it out, but I'm going to anyway.
So, of course, what happens?
Well, they blame prejudice, and they blame poverty, and so on.
And so they say here, there's a quote...
Many young people in Uzbekistan are poor and become easy prey for Islamist organizations.
So this is the typical leftist argument, which is that any evil that is done is done as a result of an impoverished environment.
And now the basic facts of the matter with regards to a lot of this extremism is pretty clear.
I mean, even bin Laden himself came from a fairly wealthy family.
If you look at the crown princes and the royal family in Saudi Arabia and other wealthy Islamic countries, so they're not poor at all.
I mean, some of the richest people on the planet, and yet they remain not only radicalized in many ways, but often dedicated to exporting that radicalization to other countries.
So is that the general perception of, well, just let's give them more money and they won't be violent?
That's kind of how you deal with a shakedown, isn't it?
Yeah, that's the view that the mainstream journalists and the politicians are trying to force feed people with.
But let me tell you, I think that I have said it to you before, that the Swedes are waking up, and this was the final wake-up call.
I know maybe you don't believe it because you saw the love manifestation in central Stockholm just two days after this horrible attack, but that is actually...
I want to tell you something about that.
I think that, you know, when people experience a thing like this, in the heart of Stockholm, someone taking this lorry, driving people dead and so on, people are in shock.
And what do people in shock want to do?
They want to share their grief with other people, you know, their fellow citizens.
So I think there were tens of thousands coming to this love manifestation, but I am pretty sure that most of these people, they didn't come there to show their love of terrorists or love of multiculturalism.
They came there because they were in shock and they wanted to do something.
And what on earth are you going to do?
How can you stop terror attacks?
The only thing you can do as a normal citizen is to go to a manifestation to show that I don't like this.
So I think that these Stockholm people, they were like hijacked and And then I tried to look into who was really organizing this manifestation.
Was it, as it was shown in the mainstream media, some private persons just wanted to do something for the people of Stockholm?
No.
Let me tell you, one of the organizers, she's called Nisha Besara.
She came from Turkey, but she is an Assyrian, a Christian, I guess, and In 1980, when she was a small child, she came with her parents.
They fled, I guess, from Islamic violence.
And she is really a part of the establishment.
She has had so many jobs inside, you know, she has had top positions.
She even worked as a political expert to a minister just a few years ago.
So, you know, they try to make it look like these are private citizens wanting to do something, but it really is the establishment, you know, orchestrating this manifestation to show the world that the people of Sweden, we don't hate terrorists.
Okay, we're a bit sad about it, but we really want multiculturalism.
We really want to take in more and more refugees.
It is, it's gross.
And the Swedish police, of course, this is a 39-year-old fellow who's accused of this.
He was a construction worker, applied for asylum in Sweden 2014, and then was refused permanent residency in June 2016.
Now, there was an attempt made to deport him in February, just of this year of 2017, but they found he was not at his registered address.
What is the result of that?
It's just like, well, we knocked on a door, we tried, he wasn't there, or at least they said he wasn't there.
I mean, I've got to wonder, let's say that you decide, or somebody you know decides to stop paying their income taxes.
Do you think the government is just going to knock on your door and then say, oh, well, he's not home, he's not at this address anymore, so we'll just let it go?
No, no, no, no.
Let me tell you one thing.
The most serious crime you can commit in Sweden is tax fraud.
That could get you into prison for like between six and ten years.
That's almost more than some murderers get.
And definitely more than a gang rapists get.
So, no, no, no.
Don't try that.
Never try to not pay your taxes.
You can be violent, you can rape, you can do anything, but don't not pay your taxes.
But what happens here is you have to understand that we have a lot of illegal immigrants in Sweden.
And last year, one of the ministers in the government said that, well, 80,000 people will have to leave Sweden.
And that's just talk.
He never meant anything.
He just said it to make people calm.
Oh, they're going to send out 80,000 people.
No way!
They don't even know where these people are.
And the thing about illegal immigrants is that a few years ago, they stopped talking about illegal immigrants.
They renamed them paperless.
They don't have any papers.
They don't have any ideas.
Identification cards.
So they call them paperless.
They don't have any papers.
And so that is, you know, that is how they work it all the time to change the words to make people feel sorry for them.
Like, you know, comparing them to Jews in Nazi Germany.
They were like outlaws.
Nobody wanted them.
They didn't have any papers.
They were not citizens anymore.
And then we have this This crazy Green Party that is now in the government with the Social Democrats.
And a few years ago, when we had a conservative government, they are not conservative, but they claim to be, they made a deal with this Green Party.
The Green Party, they love immigration.
They don't want any borders.
Everyone is a world citizen, a global citizen, and so on.
And they actually made the former government...
Give these illegal immigrants things that not Swedish citizens, they could never dream about it.
If you are an illegal immigrant in Sweden, you can send your children to school, you can get health care for $5, and you can get new teeth for $5.
If you are a Swede, an old Swede, for example, you need a whole new set of teeth, then you will have to pay like $10,000.
But if you are an illegal immigrant, you will get all your teeth for $5.
Do you understand?
Do you understand why I call my country Absurdistan?
Well, speaking of the absurd, this is a newspaper editor, Afton Bladet, something like that?
Yeah.
So this is a challenge, of course.
And I think a lot of extremists have realized that it's pretty risky trying to make your own bombs or trying to do this kind of stuff.
And maybe weapons can be hard to get a hold of.
But cars and trucks are everywhere and hijacking them is not that hard.
So this is a newspaper editorialist in Sweden who wrote, Cars have been turned into deadly weapons.
They have been easy to steal and then nothing has been able to stop their advance.
Justice Minister Johansson believes that it is difficult to protect people in an open society.
See, I love this language.
Open society versus closed and claustrophobic and xenophobic.
So Justice Minister Morgan Johansson believes it is difficult, that it is difficult to protect people in an open society.
But motorists may run anywhere.
It's surely not transparent.
The cars have dominated our cities for decades.
Now it is the people who need space.
Now it is the cars that must be regulated.
And this is how mad it's becoming, that when extremists and terrorists grab cars, mass murderers grab cars to mow people down, well, the solution, you see, is to ban the cars.
And where on earth is this going to end?
I don't know.
It's so stupid.
It just makes you want to scream.
You know, if the police had had resources to go after all these illegal immigrants, if we hadn't sent out the signals to the world that if you come to Sweden and you don't get asylum, you can stay on.
And then you get your teeth for five dollars.
If we hadn't been sending these signals out to the world, first of all, we wouldn't have had all this mass immigration and all these illegal immigrants just staying on because they get everything for free.
But if we really had had the resource to extradite them, when they get the message that you don't get asylum, you must leave, if we had...
If the laws were enforced.
If the laws were enforced.
Exactly.
Then the police would have sent them out and this person, this person would not have been in Stockholm last Friday.
He would not have had any opportunity to hijack this lorry or to kill people.
That is the facts.
And you know, this person, this man from Uzbekistan, he came to Sweden, as you said, in 2014.
And the year after, in 2015, he went to Syria because he wanted to join ISIS. And then he was stopped, I think, in Turkey.
And then they sent him back to Sweden?
Why on earth?
Did they send him to Sweden?
And why on earth did we accept to take him back?
Why didn't they send him to Uzbekistan just because he had applied for asylum in Sweden?
If he wants to join ISIS, why would we want him back in Sweden?
Well, and this is sort of a bigger question.
And I understand, of course, that the vast majority of the migrants are not terrorists and so on.
I understand all of that.
And then that's a fair point.
However, I think that does come a point where as a taxpayer, as a citizen of Sweden or other countries...
You have to ask that hard question.
What's in it for me?
What's in it for my family?
What's in it for my children?
Because the best outcome seems to be not integration, not becoming productive members of the society, which is very time-consuming and expensive.
Cultural changes, religious changes, language changes, general mindset changes to a free society with a relative separation of church and state and so on.
What's wrong with just having babies?
That's sort of been my question.
What's wrong with Swedish people having babies and enjoying parenthood and raising their children so that they'll be, you know, the best way to have integration is to raise your own kids.
And so when people come in, and I don't know what the numbers are like in Sweden, but certainly in Germany, the numbers are truly ridiculous.
Like out of hundreds of thousands of migrants, There are a couple of dozen who've gotten work and most of those are at the post office and who knows, you know, whether it's real jobs or not.
So having people come in to where there certainly is a risk element involved, which there really isn't if you're having your own kids.
And the tax bills are enormous.
So there's this woman...
Asa Lindenborg, she says, the Swedish economy would collapse if not for illegal migrants.
Vital to the economy.
She says, yes, there is a problem with those who are denied their asylum applications and then go underground, but added, it's equally true that Sweden would stop working if the tens of thousands of undocumented migrants who are here vanish for real.
What nonsense!
I mean, so people would pay more for whatever services are being provided.
Well, how about paying a little less in terms of the welfare state that keeps lots of people alive, and a little bit less in terms of additional police presences, and a little bit less in terms of anti-terrorism measures, and a little bit less in terms of paperwork processing?
I mean, having migrants in the country, okay, let's say they do a lot of manual labor, all that does is delay automation, which would happen anyway.
Yeah.
And you know, that article, I'm glad you talked about that, because also Lindeborg, She is a communist.
She actually says it out loud.
She still loves communism.
And her parents were hard communists and so on.
And she actually writes in this op-ed that she actually talks that she wants these illegal immigrants because without them, Sweden would stop.
We couldn't function.
So she actually wants the middle class to be able to hire these illegals because they are very cheap.
Isn't that sort of counter to the idea of not exploiting labor?
She may in fact be confusing Sweden with Stalinist Soviet Russia, which ran on a series of concentration camps.
I think that's the wrong cold, chilly place you're looking for.
And then it's so stupid because, of course, if there are Illegal immigrants.
A lot of people will use them, of course.
But if there are not any illegal immigrants, then all the asylum seekers could get their jobs.
Because we know that the so-called newly arrived.
That's another euphemism for not wanting to talk about immigrants.
Newly arrived.
We know that they don't work.
The unemployment rates are ridiculous.
So few of them have any jobs because most of them, not most of them, but a lot of them are illiterate.
They don't have any education.
They don't have any skills other than, you know, handling camels and stuff like that.
So if we didn't have the illegal immigrants, of course, the newly arrived could take their jobs.
And that would be good for everyone.
But it is really so stupid.
And, I mean, we don't have so many easy jobs in Sweden.
That's one of the problems.
We are a high-tech society.
You know, you have cleaning jobs and so on, but...
There are not so many jobs.
So now the government is talking every week about we need more easy jobs, more simple jobs.
Why on earth?
Why would Sweden want to go 100 years back in time?
Why would we want to do that?
Well, of course, it's very ironic that when I was growing up, Europeans were generally told, well, you know, zero population growth, don't have too many kids, you know, overpopulation is a huge problem.
And then, whoops, switcheroo, I'm sorry, there aren't enough people now, you got to import people from the third world.
And it's like, um, it's a little frustrating to put it mildly.
Now, the Prime Minister, Stefan Löfven...
So, and I, you know, I'm going to put this out there.
I'm going to put this out there with a little bit of skepticism, but, you know, you're on the ground.
Let me know what you think, of course.
So he wrote, he said recently, Sweden will never go back to the mass migration we had in autumn 2015.
Never.
Everyone who has been denied a permit should return home.
This makes me feel enormously frustrated.
If you have been denied a visa, you were supposed to leave the country.
Terrorists want us to be afraid, want us to change our behavior, want us to not live our lives normally, but that is what we're going to do.
Terrorists can never defeat Sweden, never.
Well, demographically, but anyway.
So, this frustration...
I mean, he's the Prime Minister.
I mean...
If he can't enforce the laws or encourage the enforcement of the laws, what is the average citizen going to do?
I don't mean to laugh.
It's a serious issue.
But we have, of course, heard this kind of stuff.
Angela Merkel back in the day said multiculturalism is a failure and she sort of regularly seems to commit to fewer and then it doesn't ever seem to come about.
Do you think that he's getting it or do you think this is just something to placate people in the moment?
He doesn't get it.
The board controls that we have now and the stricter laws that we have, we don't accept so much family members to come along if someone gets an asylum.
This law is only temporary.
It's supposed to work until 2019 and then we are supposed to go back to normal, Swedish normal.
Why did they make I think it was because they're in government with the Green Party and they just love immigration.
They love mass immigration.
They can't wait to change the Swedish people for people from the Middle East.
So he had to get them with him.
I'm sure that he would like to make this law permanent.
I really think he does, because I think somewhere he understands that if he wants to stay in power, which I don't think he has any chance of, but anyway, he knows that the Swedes, they are fed up with his policies.
They are fed up with all the problems that mass immigration has given us.
And people are sad seeing our country change from One of the best countries in the world, to a multicultural chaos country.
But I think that what he says now, that never go back to that, I think it's only because he wants voters.
And he knows that the Sweden Democrats, they're growing for every month, so he's scared.
Right.
There is this odd thing that's going on in Europe as a whole, and maybe you can help me unpack it a little, Ingrid, and it certainly seems to be the case in Sweden.
There are immigrants who have extremely radical views and open support for ISIS and other groups of a challenging ethical nature.
Let's be as nice as possible.
And there was, of course, some movement to say, well, you know, that's not acceptable in certain countries, you know, and why should we have them here?
And, um, just, uh, looking at, uh, what it was, uh, that was said by, again, Sweden's justice minister, Johansson, the, um, uh, the greater Gothenburg police chief, Eric Nord said that, uh, he had a call to deport Islamic State supporting migrants.
And then came freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech, apparently foundational.
And I agree with freedom of speech.
I think it's a wonderful ideal.
However, it seems that freedom of speech is not exactly evenly applied to various demographic groups in Europe.
In other words, if you're a migrant, you seem to get...
A lot of freedom of speech to the point where it seems almost absurd.
Whereas if you're a native European and you criticize certain aspects of immigration, it seems that you run afoul of the law from time to time.
So it's freedom of speech for some and it seems like quite a restriction of freedom of speech for others.
Is that your sense as well or am I reading it wrong from the outside?
No, no, no.
You're absolutely right.
We have this hate speech law which says that you cannot...
We speak badly about groups, certain groups, and that is like minority groups.
If, for example, a Muslim says, I want to kill all Swedes because they are infidels, then you cannot be charged by this law because the Swedes are in majority.
So we cannot be victims according to this law.
But let me tell you a story about someone, an old man who was convicted a few weeks ago by this law.
He is an old man in his 70s and he used to work in Muslim countries, so he knows something about Islam.
And he lives here in the southern part of Sweden, where I live, and we have a lot of Muslims here.
And he actually was beaten up by a Muslim gang.
And he was very upset because they didn't get convicted because the prosecutor made some mistake with a date or something crazy like that.
So they walked free.
And now he was really angry.
So he wrote, if you are really angry with the policies of your country, who are you supposed to write to?
Well, I would say the politicians and the journalists.
That's exactly what this old man did.
He wrote to the politicians in his municipality, and he also wrote to the local papers.
And maybe he didn't use a very nice language.
He didn't.
He was very frank, and he was very upset and very angry.
And what did they do?
These politicians, these journalists, they reported him to the police.
And now he's sentenced.
For some weeks in prison and to pay a fine.
I mean, what is going on?
If you can't, as a citizen in Sweden, write to your politicians and to the journalists, who are you going to talk to?
If they find what he says offensive, they simply don't need to print or publish it and it remains a private communication.
Exactly.
To be sentenced by this law, you have to make it known for more than a few people.
So if nobody had ever reported him to the police, no one would have known about it.
So they really want Swedes to shut up.
Right.
Just pay your taxes and don't criticize.
Now, the Sweden Democrats, for a lot of the world, particularly, I'm thinking of my American audience, Democrat means something a little different than perhaps it does in Sweden.
But I've heard them referred to as anti-immigration.
They've now officially become the largest political party in Sweden.
This is a recent poll.
They have 27.2%.
Of the electorate support.
Now, of course, again, for my American audience, some places have more than two political parties.
So I just wanted to mention to people it can be confusing.
We have eight.
And so where do they stand with regards to immigration and what do you think their appeal is for Swedes?
Well, they, you know, they are the only party that has been for a long time Yeah, I think.
I don't know why.
I don't know if it's tactics, if it is a will to, you know, to be liked by the others so that maybe they could, you know, get some influence one day because up until now, nobody wants to talk to them.
They are pariah.
They are horrible.
Just imagine saying that you don't like immigration or you don't like mass immigration.
That's the worst thing you can do.
Now things are changing and more and more Swedes are seeing that this is the only party that is saying, you know, Sweden is the country of the Swedes.
And we are not supposed to be exchanged to some other people from all over the world.
And we really need to...
The government's first and foremost priority is to...
To take care of Sweden and protect the Swedish people.
And for the last 20 or 30 years, the governments have been, they don't give one iota about the Swedish people.
They just care about people from all over the world.
The poor ones, the one with wars and the one with, you know, everything.
But they don't care about the Swedes.
So I think that you will see a landslide in next year's election.
Okay, it's one and a half year left, so we don't know.
Many things could happen.
But as it seems right now, I think they will be the biggest party in Sweden by far.
And then what will happen?
Will that mean that they can form a government?
No, I'm sure they will not have more than 50%.
They will get like 30, maybe a little more than 30%.
They will be the biggest party.
But will anyone want to cooperate with them?
So far, none has been willing to even talk to them.
So, I don't know.
I don't know what will happen.
Right.
And the thing is, too, when it comes to immigration, it's a very sort of broad question regarding immigration.
And I think, in general, people don't like violence and rape, obviously, and assaults.
No-go zones are a challenge.
A lack of integration is a challenge.
And excessive welfare dependency is It's simply a drain on the public purse.
So again, I invite people to all over the world, but just look in the mirror and say, okay, what's in it for me?
I understand it makes other people feel good.
I understand that people want to come to richer countries and get free welfare.
I understand all of that, but what's in it for me and what's in it for my family and what's in it for the future of my country?
We do have to be selfish.
You know, there is something in European civilization, this sort of pathological altruism and save the world and we care and tears and pictures of suffering and our hearts go out and so on.
But we do also have a responsibility to the cultures, the countries, the civilizations that we have inherited to make sure that they're available for those who come after us.
And this remains a very open-ended question about what's going to happen.
The data is starting to pile in, though, as you point out, after decades, the information is starting to come in and about capacity for integration.
I mean, I was just reading that there is no postal delivery in some of the no-go zones, right?
The post office, I guess, has simply stopped delivering postage.
The company responsible has judged… The neighborhood in Rinkby, Stockholm, is too dangerous to send their staff into.
Now, when you have an area of your country where the police may not feel comfortable to go, where the rule of law does not operate, even just in terms of deportations and so on, but where the rule of law does not operate, where the police are afraid or may not go, where there's no postal service there, That's not your country anymore, technically.
That is something else.
That's some other thing.
I don't even know what to call it at the moment.
So let's close off by giving you the opportunity to talk to Europeans, to your fellow Swedes who get a hold of this.
What is it that you would most like them to discuss, to think about, and to do?
Well, I would like all Europeans to look into your own hearts and see, do you really want your children to grow up in a Sharia state?
Do you not feel that you have an obligation to your forefathers, all those who created them?
These wonderful countries.
I mean, in Europe, we have true multiculturalism.
We have French culture, British culture, Swedish culture, Danish culture, and so on.
We don't need any multiculturalism from the third world.
Europe is a fantastic continent with so many different cultures and so wonderful people.
We have created the greatest things in the world.
So please look into your heart and see what do you want for your children?
Do you want them to grow up in a third world country or do you feel that you have an obligation to your forefathers and to your children and grandchildren to leave a country to them that they can be proud of, where they can live without fear of being gang raped or murdered or victims of violence?
Of terror attacks.
Please, be proud.
Europe is fantastic.
Be proud of it and fight for it.
Well said.
I appreciate your time today, Ingrid.
We'll put links to your information below.
I wonder if you could tell people just a little bit about Norse News and what the content is, how to get a hold of it.
Yeah, Norse News is a cooperation between me and my podcast partner, Conrad, and Red Ice Radio, Henrik Balmgren.
And we do this show once a month in English because we think it's very important that people know what's going on in Sweden.
As you said, we are the canary in the coal mine and we know that there is a great interest of Sweden.
So you just have to go to YouTube and you look for North News or Red Ice Radio and you will find it there.
Thank you very much as always, Ingrid.
Keep us informed and really appreciate your time today.
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