March 18, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
02:42:41
3622 Let’s Talk About Racism - Call In Show - March 16th, 2017
Question 1: [2:52] – "In your video 'Always Be Nice: Fail.' I thought you were overly aggressive with the caller. I would like to understand why you thought this was the best way to debate with the caller."Question 2: [55:25] – “With all the race bating rhetoric the media uses to reinforce white guilt and the over criminalization of blacks, which further divides us. How can we make race relationships better when people are scared to speak their minds without feeling guilty for it?”Question 3: [2:16:15] – “All established parties in the Netherlands have ruled out a coalition with the PVV of Geert Wilders, even if the populists were to become the largest faction. What should be the next step for the PVV and its supporters, if they are continually excluded from government?”Freedomain Radio is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by signing up for a monthly subscription or making a one time donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
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So a few weeks ago, I put out a show where I had a conversation about debating tactics with a fellow named Fritz.
And not too many people had much to say about it with regards to the podcast feed, but we did get a bit of a swarm of people who had certain issues with the way that that conversation went.
And the first caller listened to my conversation with Fritz about debating techniques and thought that I was a bully, nasty, mean, you know, all that kind of stuff, as did some other people who listened or at least who watched the conversation.
But then when he listened to it again or watched it again, he had a very, very different response and we had a great conversation about why that might have been and what was going on for me in that conversation.
Now the second caller wants to know why we have such a difficult time talking about race relations in the West.
Now he's in the United States and has had some new revelations with regards to race and conflict and conversations that he could have.
So he wanted to call in and have a chat about it.
And it was great.
You know, there's no reason to be afraid of these conversations as long as everyone's honest and decent about it all.
And I really, really enjoyed it.
I hope he's going to come back.
And I think you'll enjoy, you might get a little alarmed, but you will enjoy the back and forth that we had about race issues and race relations.
And I really appreciated the call, and I think you will as well.
The third caller is calling from the Netherlands, which recently had an election.
And we talked about that.
And he wants to know if you're into Heertweilders, right?
G-E-E-R-T-W-I-L-D-E-R-S. What are you supposed to do?
Because he didn't really make as many gains as some people were hoping.
And his particular plan for the Netherlands, which I think this guy has some sympathy for, he wanted to know, well, how can I... Work to achieve what I want in the face of this seeming electoral defeat.
And I think there are a lot of people in Europe who may be facing this, hopefully fewer than we think, but we had a great conversation about that.
Thanks everyone so much for listening, for watching, for supporting us at freedomainradio.com slash donate.
You can follow me on Twitter at Stefan Molyneux.
And last but not least, please, if you have some shopping, go to fdurl.com slash Amazon.
Alright, well up for us today we have Aaron.
Aaron wrote in and said, In your video, Always Be Nice, Fail, I thought you were overly aggressive with the caller.
I would like to understand why you thought this was the best way to debate with the caller.
That is from Aaron.
Oh hey Eric, how's it going?
Hey, oh it's Aaron, by the way.
Oh Aaron, sorry about that.
No problem.
Thank you Stefan and Mike for giving me the opportunity to chat about this on the show.
I really appreciate it.
My pleasure.
If memory serves me right, you may not have been the only person who felt that I may have been a tad punchy in that call.
What was your experience of the call as a whole?
Right.
Well, spoiler alert, I listened to the show a couple of times after that and reversed my opinion on it after I cooled down and actually thought about it.
But I kept my question the same because I wanted to give some context to what we're talking about and to kind of, I guess, the transition that I made.
So really what I want to hear are some of your thoughts on what made me change my mind, like some of the things you said, and maybe elaborate on those things.
For instance, the first thing that I thought was really important was you made the distinction, and I totally glazed over it, but you made the distinction between public and private debate.
In the realm of ideas.
And I thought that was very important.
And I was wondering if maybe you could talk about if there's any difference in strategy between talking with people one-on-one and then once you're a public figure like you or some of your colleagues and talking about these ideas.
Well, sure.
I mean, if you're having debates with people in your personal life, Then it's a very, very different matter.
It's one-to-one.
It's private.
And you have a relationship, so there's an investment in...
What is going on?
Like, the other person has a relationship with you, which hopefully they want you negotiating with or debating with your brother or son, your mother, your...
Right?
They have a relationship that's going to continue, so there's a boundary.
They're in the relationship and having the conversation with you because they care about you, they care about your ideas, so you automatically have some credibility, some flexibility, and you have a history of knowing how you interact with each other.
Right?
So, if you've debated with your brother, say...
500 times.
And for the most part, you know, it's decent, respectful, honest, and productive.
Then you already have that history.
When you're debating in the public eye, when you're debating with strangers, you have to judge them on the fly.
You have to interpret things on the fly.
And you are also playing to an audience, which is important.
You know, many years ago...
I went with my theatre school, we went to Stratford and we saw like a whole bunch of players real quick, which was great fun.
And we got to stand on the stage.
And I mentioned this before, but one of the actors, who's actually since become quite famous and is a good actor, he was standing on the stage and he was saying, one thing that drives me nuts about acting is you're kind of face-to-face with someone and you're having an intimate discussion about love or life or you're murmuring sweet nothings to each other.
Let me just stand back from the mic when I do this.
But you have to do it in such a way that it sounds like a natural speech, but you are, in fact, projecting so that all the people who are hard of hearing in the back row can still understand what you're saying.
So it's kind of like, you know, if you go up to a woman and, I really, I love you so much, right?
That's what you would say in real life.
But in the theater world, you have to say, oh, baby, I love you so much, so that it's murmured, but everyone can hear it, you know, you don't, unless you're doing, you know, if you're doing...
Musical, right?
Then you're often miked and so on.
But for the most part, you have to project.
Stop that train, right?
You have to get all the way to the back of the audience.
So, if you are having a private conversation with someone, or even if you, let's say, that you're an actor and you're having private rehearsals with another actor to learn lines and to get the emotions and so on, well, you're going to be talking like it's a normal conversation, like you're murmuring.
When you get out on the stage, it's a different deal.
You have to make sure, you can't just have tiny expressions.
Like, I remember...
When I was in King Lear, I had a great chat with Dr.
Duke Pesta about this.
I had this conversation with a director, or rather the director yelled at us, because I was playing a character in King Lear, and someone came in and told us big news, big important news, and we all did this...
Uta Hagen Stanislavski method acting internal.
Like, wow, I'm really absorbing that this is big news.
And he's like, why isn't anyone doing anything?
And we were like, but we're absorbing it.
He's like, I don't care if you're absorbing it.
What I want to see is that you do something.
Do anything.
Do something so the audience can see how you're reacting.
All this internal shit, it might work when the camera is halfway up your nose, but it doesn't work when you're playing to a 2,000-seat crowd.
The people in the back row need to see how you're reacting, and they're not going to do that.
All you do is widen one nostril.
And he got so passionate about the speech, he ended up throwing a chair across the stage.
I love that analogy, yeah.
Yeah, so when you're doing a public debate, it's a whole different deal.
With a private debate, you're just having a one-on-one conversation.
Your goal is to listen to and convince the other person of your position and be open to be changed in your position by the other person's arguments.
When you are having a public debate, your goal is the audience.
Your goal is to convey correct information to the audience.
The odds of you changing someone else's mind in a public debate are very low, but your whole purpose is to sway the audience.
Now, if it was a rational audience, if the audience had been raised on sweet reason and evidence, and if they had absorbed fully my upcoming excellent book, The Art of the Argument, then that would be fine.
You would then go with sweet reason and data.
But The world is not raised on reason and evidence, and the world respects passion and commitment, even in the pursuit of crazy ideas, right?
So passion and commitment and the willingness to be tough, stand up and take bullets for what you believe in, is something that the world recognizes and respects.
And the left understands this in a way that non-leftists don't really understand this.
So when Fritz came in and said, well, I have private conversations that go very well, Sure, of course.
I understand that.
What does that have to do with anything?
That's like saying, well, you know, you're on stage, Steph.
You're on stage at Stratford.
And you seem to be raising your voice quite a bit when you're supposed to be doing these calm, quiet, intimate scenes.
Now, when I talk to my girlfriend at home, I don't talk like that.
When I rehearse these lines with my friends, you know, at home, we don't speak that loudly.
It's like, well, sure, because you're not...
On stage, right?
And that's what I was sort of trying to get across to him.
And I mentioned that, like it's different in a public versus a private debate.
So his experience in a private debate, sure, okay, that's fine, but that doesn't translate to a public debate necessarily.
Right, yeah, and that clarifies things a lot.
I think the idea of talking to the audience is what...
It really helped me to understand the framework of that kind of debate.
Let me tell you something else, because I'm sure there are a few people who are curious about this.
So, there may have been a smidge or two of pushback when I posted the video.
Mean old ogre staff, you know, feasting on the soul of a tender young mind.
I mean, it's all...
So, I'm like, okay, well, maybe I was...
Overly aggressive.
Did I yell at the guy?
Did I call him horrible names?
I don't know.
We recorded it and I can't remember.
There was some time period between recording it and it going out.
I don't usually listen to shows over again.
I do occasionally, but not often.
Although when I do, it's like, damn, that's good.
Anyway, so I decided to go back and listen to it because people seemed to be very angry at me.
And the funny thing is that people were angry at me, were screaming insults at me for how I treated this poor, frail, young...
Orchid, this fragile little flower.
And they were all screaming, you know, basically saying, F you, Steph!
You need to be nice to people in debates!
And it's like, are you trying to...
Like, you're screaming abuse at me, telling me I need to be nicer?
You've got to be kidding me, right?
Like, how...
Like, talk about holding onto the grenade and throwing the pin.
But anyway.
So I did go back, and I listened to the conversation.
And I kept waiting for me to go crazy.
Like, as everyone...
Some people were saying I went crazy in the conversation.
And I'm like, I'm waiting.
And I'm like, yeah, well, that makes a reasonable point.
I make a reasonable point there.
Yeah, he's kind of dodging the question there.
You know, like in the first few minutes, the guy contradicted himself four times.
Four times!
And then just wanted me to continue as if that hadn't happened.
It's like, nope, sorry, that's not going to...
I don't ignore that kind of behavior in a debate.
And so this thing, you know, he said, Steph, why don't you focus more on, you know, being totally nice to people, treating them with respect, because that's a better way to change people's minds.
So I'm like, okay, so you believe that you're better at changing people's minds than I am.
And this was not a personal thing.
This wasn't like, oh, you're better than me.
I've seen the parodies.
They're actually pretty funny.
But...
I just want to understand.
Like, if he wants to be in the position of instructing me, I need him to be clear about that.
And I need to know if he has the confidence to tell me directly that he's better at something than I am.
And I said many times, it may be the case.
You could be fantastic at it, but let's at least know where we're starting.
And initially, he's like, no, I don't mean that I'm better at you.
And then I read him back, and he's like, okay, yes, I do mean that I'm better than you.
And then I said, well, you're just contradicting yourself.
Like, how am I supposed to have a conversation if you contradict your basic position within 30 seconds of the conversation starting?
And it's like, okay, I guess I don't know if I'm better than you.
And we talked about that.
And he's like, yeah, you know what?
I am better than you.
And it's just like, I'm really confused at this point.
And I'm like, what the hell is going on?
And then, you know, I start to ask him more questions.
And he's like, well, maybe I was just intimidated.
And, you know, then he plays the wounded lamb routine, which is pretty eye-rolling.
And, you know, come on, 21, for God's sakes.
People can get drafted at 18.
And he's 21.
He's just a kid.
No, he's not.
And...
This, you know, if he's so intimidated by being asked reasonable questions about his position...
Then how am I going to have an honest conversation with the guy?
How is he going to be good at convincing anyone if, when he's asked a few important questions about his position, he starts stammering, contradicting himself, and then claims that he's too nervous to have integrity or be consistent or basically tell the truth?
I mean, how is that?
How am I supposed to take advice on how to change people's minds from someone who folds under the first question?
And, um...
That's just crazy.
And, you know, I mean, I think asking for evidence when people tell you that they're really good at something, sure.
He may have been fantastic.
He may turn out to be fantastic.
But I have the right to ask for evidence.
And, you know, personal unverifiable anecdotes about his private conversations, A, have no bearing, and B, are completely unverifiable.
So, the fact that, like I've always said, I'm an empiricist.
So, the fact that I ask for evidence...
That someone is really good at what they do before taking advice from them.
Because, you know, people give you advice a lot in this world.
And they don't always have the best intentions, right?
You understand that.
Like, the media was constantly giving advice to Donald Trump about how to win the presidency, right?
And the media generally was in the bag for Hillary Clinton.
So when, like, people come up to give you advice, assuming that they always have your very best intentions, Interest at heart is foolish because a lot of people will give you advice in order to neuter you, in order to paralyze you, in order to undermine you, in order to, you know, have you not be as good as you could be.
So I'm happy to receive advice, but I'm telling people out there, if you want to give me advice, fantastic, you know, great.
I mean, I can always improve and I'm always open to new perspectives and better perspectives.
But But I'm not going to just take your advice because you use words.
I mean, I'm not a slut when it comes to...
I don't just put out my opinion change to everyone.
You know, you can buy me a little dinner, you know, put on a little Barry White, whatever it's going to be.
But you've got to come with some evidence.
And I, you know, I don't assume that people just want to give me good advice because they just care so much about me and just want me to be happy and want my show to do well and so on.
We see this all the time.
In the public arena.
You know, what Donald Trump really needs to do is do this, this, this, and this.
All of which would have cost him the election.
And of course, everyone who wants Donald Trump to lose the election is going to give him advice that's going to cause him to lose the election.
We understand this, right?
And Ann Coulter was all over this.
And also when someone says, well, you need to do X, my first question is, and everyone knows this, so the fact that I'm an empiricist and I ask for evidence is perfectly understandable, I'm sure, perfectly, you know, anybody who ignores that is never, is not listening to the show.
But when people give me a principle, my first question is, okay, are you applying this principle to yourself?
And also, are you applying this principle consistently?
Those are two basic questions.
And I've said this a million times.
People try to manipulate people.
People like to manipulate other people using principles all the time.
In fact, the left has openly said, we're going to manipulate everyone who's not on the left.
We have no principles, they say, but we're going to manipulate everyone on the left by holding them to their own standards.
Now, they can't hold us to any standards because we don't have any.
So I know that.
I mean, I've done a whole presentation on the Alinsky's role for radicals.
So I know that people manipulate other people.
I've done entire shows on how people manipulate other people with principles.
So when Fritz came at me and said, well, you know, you got to treat people with dignity and respect, after he kind of passive-aggressively insulted me like four or five times, it's like, well, you're not treating me with dignity, with respect, so why should I listen to your principle?
I've said this a million times.
If you're a fat guy trying to sell me a diet book, I'm really not very likely to listen to Because either you have followed your own diet and it made you fat, or you wrote a whole diet book and didn't even bother to follow it, in which case, why should I care about something that you don't even care about?
And he didn't have an answer to that.
And then when he said, well, people should treat each other with dignity and respect, and I said, okay, well, where am I in the scale of people who you think don't treat people with dignity and respect, right?
When you have the left out there pouring verbal abuse on people and hitting them with axe handles and setting fire alarms off and planning to set...
Acid attacks on their social gatherings and so on.
Where do I stand?
Like, why am I on the list?
Because I've also said that the most reasonable person is usually the person who gets the most attacked.
And this is a very old game, a very old gig that goes on.
Pick the most reasonable person in the room and then try and paralyze them according to their own standards.
And now I didn't go into the conversation assuming that this was going to be the way it was going to go.
But as I began to, you know, ask questions, ask for this person's competence, ask for evidence, Of their competence in this particular realm, it became more and more clear to me that this was a Weasley kind of manipulation, an attempt to get me to do something that was far less effective.
Because if treating people with dignity and respect was so effective, and Fritz really believed that, then he would have treated me with dignity and respect rather than all this passive-aggressive manipulation and avoidance and changing his story and insulting and blah, blah, blah.
And also, you know, and we put it out on podcast, and that was like over 100,000 downloads of the podcast.
Not even counting, you know, the other sites and not counting torrents and all of that.
And that was fine.
But YouTube, of course, well, there are all these people who, I've been listening to you for a long time and this is the first time I've ever had.
And, you know, I didn't.
But, you know, some people said, oh, I went to their profile.
They weren't even subscribed.
And, you know, the account was created eight minutes ago.
Just a bunch of sock puppet nonsense.
Because, you know, there are people out there who People are passionately invested in wasting their entire lives hating on this show.
And, you know, I guess everybody needs a hobby.
Yeah, I just, you know, maybe you could find a more productive one.
But so that's, you know, that was sort of my basic experience.
And listen to it.
I made two jokes at the guy's expense, right?
Once I made a joke about his name, and I made a joke, you know, if he doesn't even realize how passive-aggressive he's being, he has the self-knowledge of your average vampire.
Knowledge skills of your average vampire.
That's just a joke because vampires can't see their own reflection.
And, you know, that was the only two little snarky things that I... But, you know, he was making pretty significant digs at my confidence and expertise, which, again, doesn't bother me.
I mean, some kid on some young person out there says something negative about me.
Who cares?
But that whole aspect of things is sort of my experience.
And, you know, people should just...
Listen to it.
And I didn't raise my voice at him.
I didn't yell at him.
I didn't insult him.
I made a couple of jokes.
And, you know, at the end of it, when he said, well, I don't care if people treat others with dignity and respect, it's like, okay, well, then this has all just been one big manipulation designed to paralyze me because his friends are upset with me, and they sent him psychologically to come and defuse the energy of my presentation.
So it was a hostile act on his part.
And I thought I handled it with great grace and aplomb.
Didn't raise my voice, didn't yell at him.
But, you know, I was relentless in my skepticism, which is kind of the point.
So anyway, that's sort of my big backstory to it.
But tell me more about what your experience was.
Well, I think it's interesting that you talk about...
I didn't really read too many of the comments or look at how people reacted.
Mike alluded to that a little bit.
What I think is interesting...
And I went back and watched your video, The Death of Reason, because you mentioned it in that Always Be Nice Fail video.
Because it was weird, like, you've seen a movie when you're a kid, and then when you're an adult, you see a scary movie when you're a kid, and then you grow up, you watch it again, and you're like, that wasn't scary at all.
Well, I had that same experience with that video, and when I listened to your talk about The Death of Reason, It was kind of interesting and yet a little scary to see how people could react so quickly to something.
And then when I go back to it, I don't really see any of the reasons why I reacted to it the way I did in the first place.
And if you had any insight on kind of, if you might call it the psychology of why people react to it in that way, even though in retrospect, it wasn't that bad.
I mean, what's kind of the rationale to that?
You mean why people react so negatively?
Yeah, because I totally agree with what you said.
You were very reasonable.
You gave him 43 minutes of your time to talk about it before it finally culminated with the end, which is very respectful just to give him that much time.
And yet people couldn't see through it.
And so despite having all these people who have watched your show, they've probably seen the death of reason.
They should be, including myself, I include myself in this category of somebody who should have been wise enough to understand what was happening.
And yet it still flew over my head.
It's kind of like, you know, at what point do you ever finally break through and become somebody who can be what we might call objective about a debate?
So what was your emotional reaction, though, at the beginning when you first watched it?
And you said you didn't, you know, I mean, people put the comments in to try and precondition people's experience and to prime them for a negative experience.
But if you didn't read the comments, right, assuming that, what was your emotional reaction when you first, did you watch the video or just listen to the show?
I watched the video and then I listened to it the subsequent times.
So when you first watched it, what was your emotional experience, if you can recall?
My emotional experience was that since the caller came across a little laconic, and you obviously are very animated, I think just that juxtaposition alone, for some reason, made it seem more aggressive than it really was.
And I think one reason why I felt like you were more aggressive was because I didn't catch the subtleties of Why he was being aggressive, even though he may not have been raising his voice, he might not have had all the animated qualities or the vocabulary of being so-called aggressive.
The implications of what he was trying to tell you, the fact that he was trying to tell you something rather than ask you something, is what I did not see.
And I guess I just, I did not see it as kind of like, attack's not a very good word, but I didn't see it as a challenge on his part.
And then in retrospect- Sorry, what was not a challenge?
At first I thought he was just asking a question, like, why don't you behave like this?
I want to know.
So that's how it seems to me when I first saw it.
When I listened to it later, I realized it wasn't really so much about asking a question as it was about telling you, you should do it like this.
Once I listened to it again, I thought if he was really asking a question, he would have...
Wanted to understand more, why am I wrong?
Like, why is this wrong?
Because this seems to be the right way.
Or explain to me your approach in this particular area.
Look, if you're out front of the house and there's, like, you've got to mow the lawn and you're out there with a pair of children's scissors and I come out to you and I say, hey, man, why don't you use the lawnmower?
I'm saying the lawnmower is better.
Like, if I'm suggesting an alternative, I'm obviously suggesting that you do something that's better, right?
Right.
Yeah, definitely.
And that's just what I missed.
And I think that's why it seemed like you were being more aggressive, even though I don't think you're aggressive is not the right word at all.
I mean, you're just being assertive, and assertive is a good thing.
And to be honest, I don't even really know quite Why I felt the way I did.
And that's what's kind of frightening about it.
And that's why I listened to your video, The Death of Reason, because I want to understand.
I'm not an expert in philosophy.
I have been reading it for a while.
I was in debates in college and stuff like that.
And so you kind of think you get comfortable with knowing something, with being objective.
But every now and then I get this paranoia that I'm being dogmatic.
And instances like that are kind of examples of making a mistake and wondering how I made the mistake.
I mean, to be honest, this past year has been a year of mistakes in that.
Like, listening to you and a bunch of other people has totally turned me around on somebody like Donald Trump.
I mean, and a handful of other things where it's just like, you know, I've been wrong, wrong, wrong.
And it's amazing how many times you can be wrong and still never catch on.
And so I guess what I'm asking is, is there like, I mean, is there a way, are there things you can do to ask yourself in a debate or any kind of situation, kind of like make it a habit to consciously say like, what am I feeling?
Like, what is the situation?
I mean, have you ever had to go through something like that?
Or have you always had a bit of clarity in debates just naturally?
Well, hang on.
Let's just go back again.
Because, I mean, I've asked you this three times and you haven't...
I mean, maybe I'm not being clear in my question.
But what was your emotional experience, Aaron, in watching the video for the first time?
Okay.
I see what you're getting at.
Yeah, it's...
It's a hard question to, okay, it's not a hard question to answer.
It's a hard question for me to explain.
I felt like I was Fritz, I guess.
And so I felt like the attack was on me because I have never called into the show.
I never really planned to.
And so my reaction was like, this is a betrayal on me if I had to kind of psychoanalyze it.
Is that kind of the answer you ever had in mind?
Not one single emotion in what you said.
A lot of analysis, a lot of abstraction, not one single emotion.
Okay.
So...
Well, I mean, I was angry, right?
Okay.
Good, good.
Go on.
Yeah.
So I was angry.
At me, I see.
Yes.
Okay.
Angry at you.
And I felt...
I mean, betrayal, I don't know if you consider that emotion, but I felt hurt, I suppose.
Yeah.
Hurt and anger and...
I'll stick with those two.
Okay, so what was the thought behind the betrayal?
Did you feel like I was betraying my values, or I was betraying your trust in me, or was there something else?
No, you were consistent, and I think that's what made me upset, was that you were right, and I was wrong, because I was listening to Fritz, and I thought, okay, maybe he has a point.
I missed a lot of things.
And then when you proved him wrong, I was getting proved wrong at the same time.
Oh, so was it sort of like that he kind of sucked you in a sense into his vulnerable victim just trying to do good and me being some...
Mean Darth Maul bully standing over his twitching frame.
Like, was it sort of like that?
Like, the sort of...
That he tried to come on aggressive and then when he was called on it...
And, you know, bullies are kind of cowards in a way, right?
And it was a kind of bullying to come in and automatically assume that me, Steph, I was doing things wrong and he just had the better answer.
It's, you know...
And that's actually very aggressive.
And so, was it that you felt...
You put yourself in Fritz's position and you felt that I was harming you in some way or being mean to you?
Yeah, I would say that's a good way to describe it.
Being mean or you said bully, it did feel like that.
Like I said, I can't stress enough how much I've changed my mind.
And I think that's part of the challenge of it too, is just...
Being able to change your mind can sometimes be difficult.
And so that's just knowing when you're wrong on something.
Okay, the best way I can explain it, I don't know if this will explain it very well, but you've read Ayn Rand's Romantic Manifesto, right?
Yeah.
And she talks about the mismatch.
When somebody views artwork, the artwork reveals something of your emotions.
And sometimes your intellect on a subject matter and your emotions don't match up.
And there's sometimes a lag between when you learn something on an intellectual level and then the emotional part catching up, if that makes sense.
And I think that was the experience that I was going through.
You were being clear, and my intellect accepted it, but the emotional part was playing catch-up.
And I think that compounded the anger and the frustration was that, you know, here I've been listening to your show for quite a while, I donate, and I was wrong.
And it sucked to be wrong.
I appreciate your support and your honesty.
Did you grow up with a father?
Yeah.
And did your father correct you when you were wrong?
And if so, I assume he did.
But how did he do it?
It was, you know, very, very amicably and lovingly.
There was never any of the spanking or any verbal abuse.
I mean, it was a great, great childhood.
Right, right.
You know, there is, in the animal kingdom, there are these, you know, the older, strong male lion, you know, like the young lion comes up and it's kind of annoying and you put up with it for a while and then you don't, right?
And...
The sort of image that came to my mind when, you know, I read a couple of the comments of how shocked and appalled in Victorian fainting couches people felt about this interaction, which was, you know, mild, mild.
But it's sort of like, I'm the Kung Fu master, right?
And I'm known for my block, let's just say, you know, I've got a really good block.
And, you know, the kid who's the young buck who's new to the game comes up and tells me, and not only have I been studying it for, you know, 34 years, but I've also been a master teacher of this Kung Fu move for like 10 years.
And the kid kind of comes up and says, Master, you've been doing it all wrong.
You need to do the opposite of what you've been doing in order to block a hit, right?
And I'm like, well, you know, I've been in a lot of fights and I've kind of held my own and I've done pretty well and I've got a lot of experience and I know it works for me and I know it works in the world and I've got people whose fingers broke on my block and they will attest that it kind of works.
And he's like, no, no, no, you don't understand.
You got it all wrong.
You need to do the opposite of what you're doing.
And I say, well, you know, I... What evidence do you have of that?
And he's like, well, I don't have any, like, I've not had any fights, but I've practiced it with a few friends in private.
And I just know for sure that I know how to block much better than you do.
That your blocking could be infinitely improved if you simply did what I did, right?
and then I say uh okay um well get ready because I'm going to try and hit you and then you can show me how well you block right right and then I hit him and he doesn't block a damn thing and he falls down and he cries and then everyone calls me a bully right because he said he knows how to handle Assertive people or aggressive people.
I don't agree that I was aggressive, but I'm sure it came across that way to some people, I guess yourself included.
But Fritz said, hey, I know much better how to handle aggressive people than you do.
I mean, if a debate is friendly, you don't need these skills, of course, right?
I mean, it's when it's hostile.
It's when the stakes are high.
When you're talking about the future of Western civilization or the continuance of freedom or whatever, the stakes are pretty high.
And so he says, I know, Steph, how to deal with unfriendly debates.
So I gave him an unfriendly debate because he told me he knew exactly how to deal with it.
He said he knew how to block, so I threw a hit.
I mean, what was I supposed to do?
I mean, I guess I could have made different choices, but if he tells me he's an expert on how to handle difficult debates, I'm going to give him a difficult debate and see how he does.
Right, yeah, and that's what I mean.
Show me your mastery!
I'm all, you know, I'm not going to, like, if you're not going to give me any empirical evidence in the past, like, if you're not going to give me any empirical evidence, because he's got no public YouTube channel, he's got no public debates, he's got no public conversations, so if he's not going to give me any empirical evidence, but he still claims that he's better, Right, like if he'd have said to me, you know what, I guess I came on pretty strong.
I'm telling you how to fix things, but I can't bring you any evidence.
I know you're an empiricist.
If I were in your position, Steph, I wouldn't believe me either, because I'm just making an assertion.
When I'm not successful and you are, when I have no evidence for anything that I'm saying, he could have just said, you know, let me go do some research.
Let me go look up some studies.
Let me go talk to some experts.
Let me go read some books and I'll come back to you with the evidence.
That would have been fine.
Great.
Maybe there's massive evidence out there to completely support.
Everything that he's saying.
And to all the people who got bitchy and snarky and girly and screamy and temper tantrum-y in the comments, none of you provided any studies.
None of you provided any evidence, right?
And so, I'm not going to listen to you.
I think it's funny.
I mean, I hate to say it because, you know, people are all kind of...
But it's funny.
It's like, just give me reason and evidence.
Come to a philosophy show, give me reason and evidence.
And so, if he'd have said, no, I, you know, now that I think about it, I'm coming to correct you.
I don't have, I just have some personal anecdotes, which I can understand after I told him it doesn't apply as much to public debates.
So, you know, let me withdraw and, you know, get my act together and get my reason and evidence together and I'll come back.
And I'd be like, great, fantastic.
You know, we part as friends.
Wonderful.
But no, he kept saying that he knew how to handle difficult people in debates.
Great.
So then, I'm looking for empirical evidence in the moment, right?
Absolutely.
So now I'm going to give him some challenging questions, some challenging perspectives.
I'm going to ask him difficult questions, and I'm going to see how good he is at handling a difficult debate in the moment.
If he'd been fantastic at it, wow, wonderful, you know?
That would have been very interesting.
I don't think he was, right?
So if someone tells me they can handle it, like if you and I, Aaron, you and I go to the gym and you say...
You know, put 200 pounds on the bench press.
I'm going to handle it.
And I say, you sure?
And it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I'm totally sure.
I'm totally sure.
You know, put 250 on.
And I say, no, no, no.
Let's just start with 200, right?
And he's like, and you're like, don't even spot me.
And I'm like, you know what?
I'm actually going to be here to spot you.
And you then, and it collapses straight on your chest, and you're like, oh, this guy's trying to kill me!
And it's like, what?
You said you were 200?
Did anyone hear that?
You said you wanted more, and I said, no, just 200.
You understand, it's, you know, if somebody comes to me and says I'm fantastic at handling difficult debates, then what they say to me is basically, Steph, okay, you can take the gloves off, because I'm really good at handling difficult debates.
And, um...
If it turns out they're not, don't blame me.
I mean, you can, but it's silly.
Right, yeah.
I mean, I totally agree.
That's why I'm glad we had this conversation, and it's cool to know that you went back and reviewed it, too.
It's just great to...
To be able to go through this process of understanding it, not just for this, but any future ones in general that become difficult.
And it's good to know where the limits of our abilities are.
If Fritz thinks he's really good at something and he's not, then he's not going to grow.
He's not going to learn.
Now, if you've not done something, and we know this is called the Dunning-Kruger effect, if you're not experiencing something, if you're not good at something, it looks a lot easier than it is.
And so if Fritz or anyone out there, if you think you're really good at debating and then you come into somebody who's good at debating and you fall apart and you stammer and you change your position four times in four minutes and then you roll over and claim that you're too intimidated and nervous and scared and, you know, that's why I said to him, I don't think you're cut out for this, at least not yet.
But if you want to get better, people have to tell you the truth about your current level of abilities.
If I think I'm some grand chess master, And then I play, you know, a 12-year-old kid and they beat me.
That's important for me to know, because if I care about chess, then I can readjust my sense of my own competence and I can begin to learn.
But if you think you're fantastic, like, if some 21-year-old young man comes up to a 50-year-old experienced public debater...
And thinks that he can just instruct without evidence, without experience, without reason.
I'm not helping him if I participate in that delusion.
You understand?
I do.
He needs to have the light switched on to see where he is.
And I'll tell you this.
Oh man, I'll tell you this.
Aaron, Aaron, Aaron.
When I was 21, let's, I don't know, let's say Ayn Rand was 50 or something like that.
Do I think I would have knocked on Ayn Rand's door and sat down with her and said, listen, Ayn, you're doing the novel thing all wrong.
You're wrong.
You need to do the opposite of everything you've been doing in order to be a successful philosopher novelist, right?
What do you think she'd say?
Probably tell you to go to hell.
Well, and I didn't.
I was actually pretty nice.
The funny thing is that everyone thought I was being mean.
I was actually pretty nice.
I could have said, listen, you're a wet behind the ears, kid.
You've got no fucking experience, so get lost.
I was nice.
I'm like, okay, well...
Tell me your reasons.
Tell me your evidence.
Tell me your facts.
Tell me your principles.
Tell me...
I'm open to being...
I was very nice.
And that's actually probably what triggered people more than anything.
Because that's healthy assertiveness.
That to me is...
I'm refusing to roll over because somebody is pushing my buttons.
Oh, you've got to treat people with respect.
Oh, I should really treat people with respect.
I'm going to change everything.
I'm not rolling over.
I have standards by which I'm going to change my behavior.
And the fact that he wandered into this conversation with no reason and evidence, but completely unverified personal experience in an unrelated field of private debates, and that he thought he was going to instruct me, that's crazy.
That's not healthy.
That's deranged in many ways, like in terms of just being megalomaniacal, narcissistic, like deluded.
I couldn't, for the life of me, imagine...
Going up to somebody, three decades my senior, who was an accomplished public expert in his field, when I had no experience in that field, and telling them how to do their job.
Like, I just, I couldn't conceive of such a thing.
And I'm not going to participate in that kind of delusion.
It is not healthy.
And so, yes, maybe it stung his vanity.
Good.
Because we need to have realistic perceptions of who we are and what our abilities are, so that we can focus on what we're good at, Avoid what we're bad at and work to improve.
I agree.
I don't know, maybe...
People were also bothered, I think, by the fact that I openly stated my accomplishments.
Well, they were relevant, right?
I mean, if you're going to tell me you're better at me at something...
At least respect what I've achieved, right?
I could go up to Tom Hanks and say, well, Tom Hanks, you know, I went to theater school 30 years ago, and I was in a couple of amateur productions, and I did a little of this, and I was an extra in a movie, so let me tell you all about how to act, right?
I mean, it's like, you know, I got all these Oscars, right?
I mean, like, you understand, this is like, it's not healthy.
It's not a healthy perspective.
I'm not going to participate in that.
Like, I'm not going to, yes, well, please tell me more about how to improve what I do when you have no experience.
Like, you understand?
Like, I'm not going to, it's not healthy.
I'm not that cruel to participate in that kind of stuff.
I won't do it.
And so being positive and asking questions, that's being assertive.
And being healthily assertive is very painful for people, especially a male, right?
An older male.
I mean, I know, listen, I get this.
I still feel like I'm 18.
However, I understand the hairstyle has changed.
But I understand that I am, to some degree, a father figure out there for some people.
And I'll tell you this.
Maybe this was the case for you.
It doesn't sound like if you have a great relationship with your dad or whatever, maybe it's not.
But I think one of the things that happened, Aaron...
Was that people saw healthy assertiveness and it was incredibly painful for them.
Because they see how they could have been dealt with.
How they could have been reasoned with.
How they could have been instructed.
And they weren't.
Maybe they were yelled at.
Maybe they were ignored.
Maybe they were beaten.
Maybe they were neglected.
Maybe they were...
I don't know.
But there was something about seeing healthy, positive assertiveness.
And I was friendly for the most part all the way through the call.
I was asking him, hey, well, what do you plan to do with a degree in sociology?
And, you know, like, I mean, I wasn't hostile to the guy, but I wasn't giving up an itch.
That kind of healthy assertiveness is very painful to people because it gives them a vision of a skill set they know they need.
But they probably don't have.
And given that they're, you know, out there pouring vitriol in YouTube comments, I mean, that's not healthy assertiveness.
That's like a temper tantrum, right?
That's just like a two-year-old slamming their fists on a linoleum floor.
I think seeing healthy assertiveness not only is enraging for people, but it also makes them afraid.
Particularly white males, right?
White males are like the tax cattle of the Western world, right?
I mean, so much money flows from white males to non-white males.
And so if white males become assertive, the whole system set up by the left collapses.
If they say, well, no, no, I'm not going to be bullied.
Like I've always said, don't have these buttons on your head that people hit and that you cough up resources, right?
Well, Fritz came up and tried to push these buttons.
And I refused to cough up resources, entirely in line with everything I've been saying for 10 years, right?
I refused to cough up compliance because he pushed the buttons of be nice.
And that really freaks people out, because if this behavior spreads, like if what I do spreads, healthy assertiveness, skepticism, standing for your own values and not being intimidated by implicit, girly, passive-aggressive criticism, holy shit, can you imagine what happens to the world if this spreads?
Not just among white men, but among men and women and as a whole in general.
What the hell happens to our entire existing system if the productive among us say, okay, I get what's in it for you, I just don't know what's in it for me, so no thanks.
There is a lot invested in emotionally bullying people into mute and broken compliance.
And when people see me not doing that, and having a good time not doing that, I mean, I enjoyed the conversation.
It's very, very difficult for people because there's a lot that we have invested in the compliance of men in the world.
And if men shake off that compliance, if men's buttons no longer work in getting them to cough up resources because they feel bad, we have got some big, big changes going to happen in the world.
And some people don't want to see those changes.
Does that make sense?
I'm taking all this to heart.
I think it's making things very clear and it's very profound.
I know this can probably be a little frustrating to have this conversation about something that's pretty obvious, but it's been very helpful for me and I certainly hope it's helpful for anybody else who was sort of on the fence as well.
Imagine if in the politically correct universities people just did the same thing.
Well, you're a patriarch.
Interesting.
So you have problems with unjust male authority imposed upon women.
Wow!
Can you show me your criticisms of Islamic theocracies, please?
Why are you talking to me, the white male, who is by far, if there is even a patriarchy, it's by far the most benevolent and peaceful and just patriarchy the world has ever seen.
Why are you picking on me?
Why aren't you talking to Muhammad over there?
Because you know, and that's why I pointed out too, he's picking on me rather than the left because the left have axe handles and I don't.
Because the left will try and screw up your life and slander you and try and get you fired and try and hurt your relationships.
The left will attack you viciously and he knows I won't.
So he already is admitting by attacking me that I'm the nicest person in the room.
And that's another reason I was pushed back, which I've also talked about many, many times.
So if people had that level...
Of healthy assertiveness, and particularly if it's laced with a little bit of humor, because you can't be funny when you're scared, right?
And so humor is a way of reminding people that you're not scared.
And political correctness could not survive 5,000 people doing what I did with Fritz.
And political correctness very much wants to survive.
So people poured in to the comments in an attempt to try and get me to neuter my assertiveness, to think of myself as a bully, to reframe the entire interaction so that I would look negatively upon myself.
myself and not do it again, right?
Right.
Because Fritz wanted to come in and neuter my assertiveness, and he failed.
So then all of the Fritz bots came into the comment section in an attempt to get me to neuter my assertiveness.
And guess what?
You failed too.
And you failed because I love you.
You failed because if I fed into that, if I broke my own back to satisfy your bullying, it would feed your bullying and damn the world.
And you would end up in a world you don't want to be in.
So people are trying to get my compliance.
Through abuse.
And if I really hated them, I'd give it to them.
And I'd strengthen their abuse and their desire to do it.
I would give their abuse real coinage.
I'd take the paper and turn it into gold.
But I won't.
And then, you know, people were like, well, I'm going to cancel my subscription because you were mean to Fritz.
And I'm like, please do.
Please do.
I don't want your money.
I'm not in this for the money.
You know, I was offered $175,000 a year for three days of fairly easy work in the tech industry.
If I wanted money, if I was in it for the money, you think I'd be doing this?
Of course not.
So, people who are like, oh man, you were so mean to that guy, I'm so angry, I'm taking my money back from you!
Okay?
Fine, it's a free, you know, it's a free exchange.
Absolutely, you should do that.
First of all, it's not an argument.
And secondly, you're angry that I was a bully, so now you're threatening me with the withdrawal of your financial support.
So you agree with Fritz that people should be treated with dignity and respect, but you're not making any arguments to me, you're insulting me, you're abusing me, and then you're taking your money and going home.
So clearly you don't agree with Fritz, right?
And I don't want those people's money.
I would rather live under a bridge than take those people's money.
So, you know, take a subscription and go back to your fucking cat videos.
I don't want your money.
And so the idea that this is a threat to me...
I'm going to take my $5 a month subscription and go!
It's like...
I've wasted more than $5 thinking about this in the moment.
So, no, it's not.
And it's not healthy.
And, you know, the people, you know, and you look, people can cancel their subscriptions if they don't like what I'm saying.
Of course they can.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I'm just not going to guide myself by that.
My goal is the truth.
My goal is integrity to values.
My goal is not to try and get my fishing hooks into your $5.
It's just, it's not my goal.
If I wanted the money, I wouldn't be doing this.
And so it's just funny to me that then people want to then enforce my compliance with financial penalties.
Now, the funny thing is that I actually talked about this many years ago when it came to economic ostracism, and a lot of people disagreed with me.
However, I wonder if it's those selfsame people who disagreed with me about the power of economic ostracism who threatened to cancel their subscriptions, and in many cases do cancel their subscriptions because they disagree with something I've done.
And listen, if you want to punish me by withdrawing your cancellation, your financial support, because of an argument I made, and you don't provide any counter arguments, and you're just trying to punish me, again, I don't want your money because you don't have a fucking clue what philosophy is about.
Philosophy is not just about punishing people for disagreeing with your emotional upset or triggering your emotional upset or anything like that.
And you need to take your money and go and do something else with it and go and live your miserable, miserable life where you get to bully and threaten and punish people for failing to comply with your immediate emotional bullshit, immature tantrums.
I don't want your money.
Like, seriously...
Don't do it.
Don't give me a penny.
And tell your friends to never, ever subscribe to me.
And please don't subscribe to me on YouTube.
I want the YouTube subscriptions and I want the money that comes into this show to come from understanding and knowledge and wisdom.
And that doesn't mean agreeing with me on everything.
But if you disagree with me, make a case.
Bring reason and evidence.
Now, if you bring sweet reason and evidence to me and I tell you to get lost and blah, then sure, cancel your subscription because I'm...
I'm bad at being a philosopher.
But if I do something that emotionally triggers you and then you just want to take your ball and go home, it's like, yeah, well, go home.
Because it's not the place for you.
It's not the place for you.
All right.
Are we good?
Are you comfy with what we chatted about?
Oh, absolutely.
I said it before and I'll say it again.
You know, I was one of those people.
I was...
probably still am, one of the immature people who just totally saw this in the wrong light and that's why I wanted to talk more about it to let it really sink in so that I can understand it and make better decisions next time and I appreciate that you've been so you've taken so much time on this it's really respectful.
It's my pleasure and And the only thing I would annoyingly instruct you on, Aaron, is don't call yourself immature.
You had a reaction.
And what you did was you stayed with it, and you watched the video again, and you've worked to try and figure out what made you So upset.
Huge respect for that.
Maybe you had an ancient reaction or an earlier time reaction or a triggered reaction, but you're not in control of that.
That happens to everyone.
Happens to everyone.
But what you did was you circled back, you figured it out, you tried to understand, and you came in and had a conversation with me about it like a man.
Right?
Like an adult.
And that is to be enormously respected.
Don't Call yourself immature for the reaction.
That's beyond your control.
But your reaction to the reaction was noble and dignified and wise.
Well, I appreciate it.
I was nervous about calling at first, but I'm really happy I did, and I hope you got something out of it, too.
I certainly did, and I look forward to the comments again, I suppose.
So thanks there, and I appreciate that.
Let's move on to the next caller.
Alright, up next we have Eddie.
Eddie wrote in and said, With all the race-baiting rhetoric the media uses to reinforce white guilt, the over-criminalization of blacks, which further divides us, how can we make race relationships better when people are scared to speak their minds without feeling guilty for it?
That's from Eddie.
Hey, Eddie, how you doing?
Hey, how's it going?
Good, good.
Name always reminds me of the side of a river.
Just wanted to get that out of my head so I can concentrate on the side of a river.
Alright, yeah.
So what's your experience with this sort of race baiting and the white guilt and all that kind of stuff?
Well, as far as like white guilt, that's like a concept that's fairly new to me.
I would say probably a few months old because I was out at a bar with a buddy of mine and I don't know, I've always been somebody who's very upfront and like not necessarily scared to have these uncomfortable conversations and We're at a bar.
Things led to another.
We just started talking about things that I feel like people aren't uncomfortable to talk about.
The ironic and funny part about it was everybody in the bar was gravitating towards our conversation and adding their little two cents into it.
It was hilarious.
That actually drew that hypothesis that people are not necessarily talking about this because I'm seeing it.
I'm seeing people's faces glow and just like They're seeing me, an Italian dude, a black guy, an Italian dude at a bar, just having these uncomfortable conversations.
I feel like that's what society, we as people, have not been doing.
That lack of communication.
Right.
Well, isn't...
Yeah, and it's funny, you know, because I didn't really talk that much about race for the first quite a long time of the show, and I certainly didn't really think much about race growing up.
I had friends of every color of the rainbow and all that, and...
When I started talking about race on this show, which was a topic that basically the media, I shouldn't say the media forced me into it, like I don't have agency or I don't have choice, but, you know, starting with Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown and like all of this, just boom, boom, boom.
It's like race, race, race, you know, riots and hysteria and, oh my God.
And it's like, okay, well, I cover current events, so let's see if we can unpack some of this stuff and figure out what's going on.
I still think, like, you know, they're forcing that rhetoric in a way, too.
You know, like, the way that it's presented, I mean, you can't lie, like, news outlets, they have to, they have their own agenda, you know, as kind of ratings, rating-based.
It's all about, like, who could get this story out quicker, and, you know, like, race-baiting headlines sell, you know, people want to see that, like, white guy versus black dude, like, you know, that gets them ratings, but I think they're pushing this rhetoric, and it's causing even, you know, like, my little brother is 13, like, And he has all type of colorful friends.
It doesn't matter what they look like.
They're all just playing.
They're all cool.
And I feel like when you're starting to put that in young people's mind, it's kind of like you're forcing that divide.
You're making them think about something that wasn't necessarily there in the first place.
Well, and so like you with your Italian friend in the bar, Eddie, I mean, people gravitate to the conversation.
And if there's a place where people can...
Talk about race and challenges of race, because there are challenges.
If there's a place where we, without just, you either have to completely toe the party line and be like leftist, well, you know, white, bad, exploitation, slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, you know, prejudice and affirmative action.
Like, if you're not willing to just completely toe that self-lagellating, bad, whitey line, but you can actually have an honest conversation, like in the bar...
People really want to talk about this stuff.
And we need to talk about this stuff.
And we need to talk about it, as you point out, without the fear.
So what happened with the bar conversation that you started with your Italian friend, the People Gravitated Award?
What happened with that?
Oh, actually, I actually learned a lot from his perspective, too, because, you know, like he asked me very honestly if I experienced racism from, you know, just overt racism.
I kind of give them my answer.
And, you know, he gave his opinion about it as well.
But he was the first person to kind of put me hip to the to the fact and the concept that, like, you know, white males are being attacked.
I've never really thought about it, nor, you know, had to think what is life like as a white male.
So after he, you know, kind of dropped that dime in my And I started really, like, noticing it, you know, like how, you know, the media and just, you know, feminism and just everything in general is making, you know, white males seem like the oppressor, the bad guys.
When, realistically, like, I mean, I was born outside this country.
I was born in Haiti.
So I've always, you know, coming here, I've always thought externally from the American culture anyway.
So I've always looked at it externally from a different, you know, from the outside looking in.
So even then, like...
You know, white people did die and forced slaves to be free in this country.
So I always thought about that as well, too.
So it's fairly interesting the way that they kind of like paint, oh, all white guys are like this.
All black guys are like this.
You know, all black people think like this.
So I think that kind of, you know, like, especially like, it's not necessarily dangerous when you have black friends, when you have mixed friends, when you have all type of friends, because you're like, no, obviously that's false.
But if we're talking rural America, places where, you know, like, Majority of people you were born, raised with, went to school with, all look like you.
Your perception and your first, I guess, for lack of a better term, first time seeing somebody of another race is probably via TV, the news.
And the news is always predominantly showing you black males are doing this.
It's like, oh, they're in the crime.
They're very criminals.
They're very crime-oriented.
It kind of draws that fear And I'm not saying, you know, like, you know, there's not a lot of crime going on in me.
Look at Chicago.
Like, I don't know if I can curse and I'm sorry, but yeah.
You can curse.
Look at Chicago.
Look at, you know, like, there's real conversations that need to be had.
And I feel like the fact that we're, like, pussifying everything and just people in general, we're not having these uncomfortable conversations, which will lead to growth.
Yeah, I mean...
I was going to say, criminally oriented, was that the phrase?
It's a very, very, very diplomatic phrase, my friend.
But yeah, I mean, young black males, like in America, they commit a staggering amount of crime.
Like, unbelievable amounts of crime, right?
I mean, if I remember the statistic correctly, it's something like, if only white and Asian people Yeah, I think it's strange, too.
Especially, you know, like, and I'm a fan of hip-hop and all type of music as well, too.
But even the music kind of glorifies, you know, black-on-black violence and just the whole, like...
I don't know.
It's a different mentality.
Like I said, I wasn't born in this country, so I always thought externally from it, too.
And another thing that's pretty strange, too, is, like...
And I'm sure some listeners, if they are black and coming from a different country, they kind of warn you about black Americans too.
Like, hey, kind of stay away from them, guys.
Wait, wait, wait.
Hang on.
Okay.
Really?
Yeah, right?
I think it was about two weeks ago, I had a Jamaican woman on who was talking about the external view of African Americans and black Americans.
So when you said, I'm going to the States, what did you get?
Well, it's fascinating to me.
No, people do warn you.
My parents definitely did warn me to stay away from the black Americans if they act a certain way.
And mind you, I'm from Miami, so I was raised predominantly with minorities.
Miami is predominantly Hispanic, but there's still a good mix of blacks as well.
And the majority of them are, I would say, from the islands, but it's definitely a mix.
Wait, so when you say from the islands, do you mean born in the islands and came here, or historically?
No, like, born in the islands and came there.
So, like, Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians, yeah.
So, like, people like that.
And even then, we're getting a lot of, like, racism.
And it's, like, black-on-black racism where, like, the black Americans will not necessarily accept us.
And back in my high school, like, the Haitians and the island people will kind of stick together.
The black Americans will kind of be on another side.
It was pretty strange, like...
So there's other real problems, like, see, you didn't, you know, like, you've never experienced something like that.
It's pretty interesting.
There's actually real other problems that people are not talking about, I think, you know, and these conversations are not being had.
Okay, so if you could give advice, because, you know, the black community in America, well, there's two ways to look at it, right?
So first of all, relative to other groups in America, they're doing badly.
Relative to other blacks in the world, they're doing fantastically.
Yeah.
Because that's the big challenge.
So if you compare blacks, the average black in America to, say, the average Jew or the average East Asian or whatever, they're doing very badly.
But if you compare the average black in America to the average black in Africa, well, they're 30 times richer.
Yeah, I can see what you mean.
But I think, you know, like...
You know, being a black male and like I said, diverse groups of friends, I get to see both sides.
You know, like I speak to a lot of black Americans and just black friends in general.
And I've been around, you know, black Americans that just like playing victim, bro.
Like, and that's, you know, and obviously I'm not talking about the quarter problem.
There's a lot of, there are a lot of, there's a bunch of cores and I hope we're going to be able to talk about that a little bit later on.
But as far as like, You know, visible and, you know, immediate problems.
What I'm seeing, too, I've been around Black Americans that are just like, oh, white people hate me, da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da.
Like, it's just like they're victimizing themselves and putting these barriers and, I don't know, like, this self-hate, which, you know, like, some could say, like, is it?
No, no, no.
It's not self-hate if you're saying other people are persecuting me.
Oh, no, but I mean, understand, like, if the media is, you know, if people are telling you you're the victim all the time, you're going to feel like the victim, you know, like, and I feel like they believe that.
A lot of them do believe that, like...
No, and I don't blame them for believing it.
I mean, I grew up propagandized in various ways, and blacks grew up propagandized in certain ways.
I don't, you know, the government seeks to divide us all and set us all against each other, and so I understand that.
But coming in sort of from Haiti, what do you see in the black community that...
You know, you have a platform here, right?
I mean, I know that a lot of people of various ethnicities and so on listen to this show, so you can have big influence on various communities just through this very conversation.
What is it, Eddie, that you would like to say to the black community in America that you think might be the most helpful?
Well, I don't want to be the voice for the black community, first and foremost.
No, no, just your own personal perspective.
Here's your soapbox.
What do you want to say?
Well, I think, you know...
You know what's interesting?
Before I even get to that, I think, like, I was listening to one of your podcasts, and you were talking to, like, a self-proclaimed racist dude, I guess?
I'm not too sure.
And even with that podcast, like, see, I'm trying to figure out how to answer this without feeling like I'm speaking on behalf of everybody, and that's something I don't want to do.
But, you know, like, I still think, like, as an individual, you still need to know your self-worth.
You know, like, me, like, my parents are still together.
You know, I'm very close with both parents, and I've always knew, like, you know, like, I don't want to be dependent upon the government.
I was never, you know, I didn't think, like, Jesus was going to float down from the sky and come save me, nor do I believe the government is going to come save me.
I'm a software engineer.
Like, I'm doing pretty well financially, you know what I mean?
Like, so I've always been goal-driven and kind of know my worth, and I feel like when...
Society is telling you, hey, you came from this.
This is who you are.
Where the rhetoric in the news and even TV shows shows you Blacks are being perceived only as the athlete or the athlete.
You know, the rapper or, you know what I mean?
You're not really being represented every other way.
That kind of plays a role in some of these kids' psyches, right?
The music that you're forced to listen to, hip-hop, is telling you, yo, kill this nigga, da-da-da this nigga.
It's just, like, very negative and not necessarily, you know, like, making you have a higher self-worth.
It's actually, like...
It's more negative and more propaganda, but a lot of these kids really believe it, for sure.
Like, oh, don't speak to police.
But it's ironic because when something bad happens, who do you call?
The police.
So, I don't know.
But at the same time, should a white male from suburbia, his first time seeing a black dude wear baggy pants and whatever, and dress a certain way that, I would say, for lack of a better term, Like, hip-hop.
Like, his perception is just, you know, baggy shirt, snapback, whatever, Jordans.
And for them to get scared, too, like, what is that?
Who is at fault there, too?
You know, like, it's...
I don't think it's a black or white answer, pun intended, I guess.
It's like a gray answer.
I get to reuse analogies if I haven't used them in years.
I hate repeating myself, Eddie.
Oh, man.
It's a big weakness for me because if I listen to other people's shows enough, they end up repeating themselves and it drives me crazy.
I've had people, I don't know if you've had them in your life, they tell you the same stories again and again.
Oh, for sure.
You know, you already told me this, and usually it's a grandfather.
I have no excuse.
But anyway, so I'm aware.
I'm repeating, but I used this analogy years and years and years ago, talking about race, saying, you know, if you're walking up to a bus stop, like it's one o'clock in the morning, and you see a black guy there waiting for the bus, but, you know, he's in a suit reading a computer magazine, are you going to be nervous?
Yeah, I see what you mean.
But to play devil's advocate, like, you know, back then in the, I would say, like, what, 1920s, people that were getting water hosed down and shot were wearing suits as well, too.
So to a certain extent, too.
I mean, but again, if we have to go back 100 years, we're never going to get out of the quagmire, right?
Right.
Yeah, for sure.
So I see what you're saying.
It's about presentation.
Whereas if there's a white guy there sniffing glue with a mohawk and a swastika carved into his forehead with a rusty knife, you're probably not going to...
He might be a nice guy.
You're going to keep on walking, right?
I mean, any same person would.
Okay, but let me say this to you, right?
So a black guy with dreads, probably well-dressed, walks by.
Your perception may be something different, right?
But when Justin Bieber gets dreads, oh, it's the new hipster thing.
Like, you know, like, when he, you know, like...
Well, no, I don't think that's a fair comparison, though, Eddie, because, I mean, everybody knows who Justin Bieber is and they know he's going to be trouble.
They know he's going to egg your house.
He's going to steal your girlfriend.
He's going to flex his tiny abs and shit money.
You'd have to go with someone other than Justin Bieber because, you know, everybody knows he's a known quantity versus some unknown guy with dreads.
But I think it's all about the president.
This is something that Jesse Jackson said years ago.
He said, you know, after decades of working in civil rights, he said, it breaks my heart that I hear footsteps behind me at night on the street and I'm turned around.
I'm relieved if it's white guys.
You know, and that is tragic.
But let me ask you this, if you don't mind, to sort of switch gears for a sec.
So how much time did you spend, you say you're born in Haiti, but you grew up in Miami.
How much time have you spent in Haiti?
I probably left when I was probably like third or fourth grade, to be honest.
So I left when I was pretty young.
And you haven't been back, right?
I have not.
My parents go all the time, though.
They love it.
Do you know what the average IQ is in Haiti?
I do not.
What would you guess?
I'll say 120-ish, you know, it's an island full of geniuses, you know, something like that.
What would you guess?
But I'm biased, you know?
I'm somewhat biased.
Wouldn't that be great?
Seriously, Apple could put its entire R&D development a lot closer to home, but anyway, sorry, go on.
Can we base their IQ on my IQ? How about that?
Sorry, say again?
Can we base their IQ upon my IQ? How about that?
Well, not if you're not there, we can.
I mean, trust me, I think you'd be raising the average just a smidge.
No, I do not, though.
Do you know?
Yeah.
Now, again, this is caveats.
You never judge individuals this way, but these are general trends.
The numbers aren't perfect, but they're probably not way off.
It's 67.
And that is a big challenge, right?
Yeah, for sure.
I know for sure that public school is private, too, so it's like a matter of wealth, too.
Right, but you're not going to be able to generate much wealth with IQ67 on average, right?
Because that means half or lower.
Yeah.
And so this is, you know, this is the big heartbreaking thing.
I get to tell you, you know, like, man to man, this is like, it's the most painful thing.
Actually, that and demographic winter, you know, the fact that...
Whites seem to have given up having kids.
Seems like a bit of, we're worried about the polar bears.
I think the white extinction might be, anyway.
But, so, yeah, I mean, this sort of IQ stuff is brutal.
For me, right, it's incredibly painful.
Because it means the problem can't be solved easily.
In terms of, like, wealth disparities, and it's the same thing, you know, we've talked about this with the American blacks at sort of 85, and Hispanics at high 80s and stuff like that, and It is very painful because it means that white guilt will not solve the problem.
No, for sure.
And if we're talking about a different country specifically, if we're going to talk about Haiti, I think it's definitely up to the Haitian government and the president to save and to care about their own country.
It's the people there that need to save their own country.
I can't really speak too much on that.
Like I said, I've I'm definitely Americanized AF. I'm so Americanized that I'm kind of detached from that.
My parents are very involved in that.
So they're probably somebody better to speak to.
But as far as the American Black Americans and Black people here, what I can say for sure is the fact that they are always being victimized too.
I think that kind of plays a role into it.
It plays a huge role.
And let's not deny the fact that There have been institutionalized laws and setbacks that have held back black Americans, definitely in America.
Because if we're looking at schools, like the funding with public schools, black schools, high schools, middle schools and stuff are tremendously underfunded compared to predominantly white schools, like in a suburbia or whatever.
And this is public schools.
If we're talking private, that's based upon private money and I understand that private schools are better, but if we're talking public schools that funds are coming from the government, those in predominantly black and minority areas, they're tremendously underfunded.
They get some of the...
And what does that do?
They probably get some of the worst teachers because of the funding.
They get books that are lesser and not as current.
And at the same time, because of that, the neighborhood is cutting down on extracurricular activities, And this goes back to the whole, you know, feminized society where women are, you know, higher counts than single mothers and because they're working longer, these kids are, they're just home by themselves.
They're probably like 13, 14 years old.
They have no, you know, they have nobody else to look up to.
So they're going to look up to like the drug dealer who has no clue what the hell he's doing, who's bumping fucking hip hop, who's selling him like, yo, sell drugs, fuck going to work.
You know what I mean?
So it's, It's very gray, you know?
There's a lot of gray area.
You can't necessarily be like, it's your fault only.
No, but it's...
But I still do believe you've like...
Sorry to interrupt, but I understand the economic argument, and it seems compelling.
But there's a lot of facts that push back against it.
You don't believe it?
I'm sorry?
You don't believe it?
You're not convinced.
No, no, no, listen.
I understand it.
It seems compelling, and I'm not saying there's no truth to it.
But if money were the issue...
Then explain to me how the children of the richest blacks score lower in school than the children of the poorest whites.
Oh, seriously?
Well, I I can't speak on it.
I don't have the facts on that.
No, and you can look it up, right, and let me know.
You know, since 1965, you know, taxpayers, like the Head Start program, which was supposed to, you know, in particular with minority kids, try and close the achievement gap between blacks and whites.
And, you know, I got to tell you, Eddie, I even hate talking about it in terms of blacks and whites.
Like there's only two races.
And we could say the achievement gap between East Asians and blacks or whatever it is, right?
But the blacks were doing the worst in school.
And since 1965, taxpayers have spent over $180 billion trying to close this gap.
That's more money than the entire 19th century produced, I think, you know, whatever it is, right?
I mean, more money, there's no possibility that throwing more money at the problem could ever solve it.
If 180 billion dollars can't solve it, I don't see how 200 or 200, it could be infinity billion dollars.
It doesn't matter.
It's not a matter of spending more money.
I'm not sure, because where's this one coming from, though?
Like I said, like, It is a real fact that these schools are underfunded, and they're not well as equipped as a school in suburbia.
This is true as well, too.
No, but they've been trying to close that underfunding gap for decades, and they've poured massive amounts of money into lower-funded schools.
And it still hasn't done much to budge achievements.
Yeah, but like I said, it's not just one, you know, like the money alone is not going to fix.
There's still other fixes that need to be had.
Well, a fix, sorry, I think something I think you and I could certainly agree on.
Well, maybe I shouldn't pre-guess whether you agree.
But what I think would be a huge help to black communities, and this is another reason why I was keen on Donald Trump, give everyone, but let's just talk about black communities, give black communities, give black parents the power of Now that's something that has been proven,
not massively, not repeatedly, but there are specific instances where giving black families control over school choice, giving them vouchers so that they can spend that school money on government schools, private schools, tutoring, homeschooling, whatever, giving them the voucher and giving homeschooling, whatever, giving them the voucher and giving them the choice, that has been shown to close the black-white achievement gap.
And that, to me, is the most—it doesn't cost any more anymore.
In fact, it may save money.
And it gives the black...
I mean, you've seen probably these schools like Waiting for Superman and so on, like these movies, where the families in the ghettos are desperate to get their children.
They got lotteries.
They're so desperate to get their children.
They're like drowning people at the end of Titanic.
Yeah.
Trying to hand their kids to a lifeboat.
Please, God Almighty, let me get my kid to a decent school.
Yeah, I mean, the truth is, majority of people that are in the ghetto, that are in the hood, in the slums, they do not want to be there.
You know, they don't want to be there.
And I think it's very ironic that, you know, like some of these artists, especially hip hop artists, they glorify the street life.
They glorify selling drugs.
And it's even worse because you're selling drugs to your own people, which are just like, you know, like it's just an endless cycle and they glorify it.
So I do agree.
I mean, education plays a huge role.
I myself have a college degree.
I have, you know, like I work for a Fortune 500 company.
I was able to always...
I like to think externally from that.
But there's kids that truly believe that.
The funding education definitely plays a huge role, and I think self-worth plays a huge role as well, too.
But we can't deny the power of perception, too.
If you're being represented in every movie as...
Oh, the bad guy, the drug dealer.
Oh, the athlete.
You only feel like, and some young kids probably feel like, that's all I could be.
That's all I'm ever going to accomplish.
I mentor kids all the time, and I tell them, hey, I'm a software engineer.
I make good money.
This is what, you know, like, you don't need to do this.
And, you know, their eyes open up, like, oh, wow, they're not going to do that.
Dude, you're brilliant.
Yeah, but dude, like, a lot of people are brilliant.
They just need that opportunity, too, as well, you know, like...
No, no, but again, I'm sorry to keep going back to this.
Statistically, it's not the case, right?
Statistically, between, say, East Asians and African blacks, there's almost a 20 IQ point difference on average.
Now, you're a great, fantastic, wonderful exception, you know, good for you, but...
I still think opportunity trumps all that.
You know, like, yeah, if we're going to speak IQ, like, obviously, this is something to do with talking about, too.
I feel like every race, quote-unquote, kind of has their own talents.
Well, that's very true.
Please understand, when I talk about an IQ gap, I'm in no way talking about any racial superiority or inferiority, the different specialties, different expertises and so on.
But, like, we need to acknowledge that gap.
And also, like, I'm just looking up in U.S. news here, the achievement gap between white students and black students has barely narrowed over the last 50 years.
Sorry to interrupt.
But think of, like, the IQ difference between blacks and whites has been known for over 100 years specifically, right?
And it's been sort of measured before that.
So over the last 50 years...
Society as a whole, right?
This is all racism.
Society as a whole has been working insanely hard to try and close the achievement gap between blacks and other races.
Again, you're an individual exception as there are tons, you know, 20% of American blacks are smarter than the average white and, you know, wonderful contributions and so on.
But so much, like hundreds of billions of dollars have been poured into trying to close this gap between blacks and whites or between East Asians and whites or blacks and whatever you want to, however you want to call it.
And the numbers have barely budged.
Okay.
But hundreds of billions of money.
What else should we be trying?
More money isn't going to solve the problem because so much money has been poured in already.
What do you suggest?
And as far as role models go, come on.
On TV, how many bad guys are white?
I mean, if you've never watched CSI, you know, I mean, and in movies, you know, like, how many geniuses and mathematicians and cool guys and great guys are blacks?
You know, there's tons of counter...
Like, people have been sensitive to this portrayal of blacks in the media for a long time, and I think people have really tried to remedy that and to make...
And the president was black, right?
Right.
Oh, no.
So don't give me the your president was black racism is over thing.
No, no.
Hey, I didn't say the racism is over thing.
That's your addition.
Oh, okay.
I was going to say.
But as far as a public role model that blacks can see, I mean, he's not been invisible for the eight years he was in.
Hell, he isn't even invisible now, right?
So...
This is true.
It's there, for sure.
But let me say one thing.
So you're arguing about the millions of funds that are allocated to blacks.
And this is, you know, like...
Even you have no clue where the money went.
My argument to that could be, like, there's millions of funds that go into the war on drugs, and look how great that's going, you know?
Like, look how great the war on drugs is going.
And to put on pause to that as well, too, yeah, I get what you're saying.
Like, there are criminals that are white as well, whatever, that they are being portrayed on TV and TV shows and movies.
But you can turn on A podcast is you're being represented.
You want to look at a doctor, you're going to be portrayed as a doctor, as the homeless guy, as the nerd, as the jock, as the cool guy, as the shy guy, as the emo guy.
You could turn on Flip any channel, you will see yourself or someone that looks like you being represented in every angle.
And this is not just black.
No, no, this is the thing, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, Eddie, but this is where the white experience doesn't sit for you.
Because you haven't grown up in an environment where, as a white male, you're just basically called a racist and a sexist always.
So the idea that I turn on the television and there are white people on there who are succeeding and doing things doesn't really matter relative to the fact that the whites are racist, whites are oppressors, whites just wake up in the morning and before we even brush our teeth or before we comb our hair or before we wash our face, we're just sitting there thinking, what can I do to make black people miserable today?
Like, how can I possibly contribute to this big white machinery that grinds up black aspirations?
It's very strong.
And I'm trying to shake whites and blacks free of that narrative, because we've tried this.
We've tried white guilt for more than half a century.
Obama administration pumped more than $7 billion into an education program.
It had absolutely no impact on student achievement.
Now, unless you can find more than $7 billion under the couch, and I've lifted up my couch, no luck for me, more money isn't going to solve the problem.
Now, I think less money, less government involvement will certainly solve the problem.
The welfare state is catastrophic for the black family, as it is catastrophic for poor families as a whole, right, which there's more of in the black community.
So the welfare state is catastrophic.
You know, I've talked about this before, how, you know, black...
Families were stronger even than white families in the 1920s and the 1930s at a time where there was significant legal racism.
The welfare state is catastrophic for the blacks, and the government school system where you scoop up funding from the local property taxes is for sure the worst possible thing that you could do in terms of achievement.
So less government, less control, I think, gives the greatest opportunity to black advancement.
I mean, I think of the post-war period.
When blacks in America were moving into the middle class extremely quickly, it was the greatest Decade and a half of achievement at blacks across the planet.
This is sort of in the post-war period from 1945 to the early to mid-60s, sort of 15, 20 years.
Blacks were pouring into the middle class.
And one of the reasons unions were formed was to keep blacks out of the workforce so that they wouldn't compete with the poorer whites.
Horrible, wrong, racist, horrible, you know, just terrible.
But they went to the government.
They went to the government to get this kind of power of exclusion.
So to me, less government, less...
It's not about, well, can we throw another black mathematician into the Martian movie or whatever.
That to me is not the solution.
The solution is less government for just about everything.
But if there was no welfare state and if parents in poorer communities had school choice, they would be able to attract better teachers, which would give the most possibility.
If there are genetic elements to the black population, IQ gap with other ethnicities, it won't solve the entire problem, but it will get as many people as humanly possible out of the mess.
And Dr.
Tom Sowell has written quite a bit about this.
And to me, that is the greatest opportunity for all groups, is just have control over your own neighborhoods.
Have control over the education of your children.
Have control over your charity.
Don't just fire money into impoverished communities and expect them to turn into suburbs.
It's been tried.
We have to try.
Something new.
We have to abandon white guilt.
We have to abandon the idea that running to the government is going to solve these problems.
We have to abandon the idea that more government spending is going to solve the problem.
And we have to start doing something different than what we've been doing.
And to me, that means, great, these kinds of honest conversations.
But in particular, it means less government, more voluntarism.
That's going to reawaken a sense of community, which I think poor communities, since I grew up in a poor community, I know this fairly well.
A sense of community is exactly what poor communities don't have.
And I think it would be so much better.
You know, Tom Sowell was talking about when he was younger, how he used to like play outside all the time, take his dogs for walks in the park.
And when he said this to kids in Harlem, they were like horrified.
It's like what that place with the junkies and the needles and the whores playing their trade behind the broken swing set.
I mean, it was incomprehensible.
But if you had no welfare state, communities would flourish.
Kids would be able to play outside.
You'd have control over the education of your children.
It would reflect your values.
Religion might resurge, which would really help people with charity and with values and cohesiveness.
There could be a renaissance.
But right now, state power stands between us and that potential future.
Thanks for your patience.
I'll shut up now and you can...
No, no worries.
I mean, you're dropping jewels, man.
I'm definitely learning.
But what you said is there's definitely a lot of truth and merit to it.
Like, if we look at, like, the Asian community, like, they definitely, like, don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure it said, like, business is there, too.
Like, their money moves around at least seven times, six to seven times, where, like, you know, you'll spend that money to, you know, like, an Asian dude will probably go and spend money to buy food from an Asian restaurant, that person in an Asian restaurant, buy their groceries from, I mean, buy their...
Medicine from an Asian pharmacist, you know, in their own community, and that money kind of bounces around, which helps everybody.
And I think, in a sense, that's not what's happening in a lot of these minority, and more specifically, a lot of these black communities, too.
We're not really supporting each other.
And that plays a huge role in it as well, too.
I don't want to make it seem like I'm making excuses, nor am I denying the importance of education and reallocating the funds or whatever.
But at the same time, it's not just a, you fix this, everything else will be solved.
I think collectively, there's a lot of little broken pieces that If they're fixed and if they come together, it makes the glass, you know, it makes that mirror perfect, you know?
Right, right.
And just for those who want to, you know, and if you yourself, Eddie, want to look into this more, the Department of Education's report is called School Improvement Grants, Implementation and...
This is a program that was first introduced in 2001, of course, under the Bush administration.
And the specific goal was to pump money into the country's lowest performing schools, right?
They wanted to improve student achievement in graduation rates, in test scores, in attendance, and so on.
So they found schools with low academic achievement and graduation rates below 60% for high schools and some other factors as well.
And then it was cancelled because it wasn't achieving anything, and then similar funding was still sought after by school districts.
So the school improvement grants then was resurrected in 2007.
It got $616 million under Bush.
This is back, of course, when $616 million was real money.
And then 2009, Obama administration put in $3.5 billion through the stimulus package.
Funding went through the roof.
More than $500 million annually went to the program for the rest of Obama's presidency.
And it did not change.
Graduation rates, academic achievement scores, one bit.
Well, I don't know exactly how they spend that money or how they're attacking the problem.
No, I get that.
But asking the government to spend more money isn't going to solve the problem.
Oh, no, I'm definitely not asking the government.
Like I said, I never relied on government, but I'm speaking from my perspective and my own experience.
But I have a question for you.
Yes, sir.
Do you feel like that there is an equal playing field?
Do you honestly feel that, though?
What do you mean by an equal playing field?
As far as like being born in America as a black male or Hispanic male or whatever that you're in, you're born in a black neighborhood and whatever, like you're born in your own whatever type of semi-segregate neighborhood.
Is there an equal playing field for everybody in America?
Oh God, no.
Oh, exactly.
And that's what I'm saying.
No, no, no.
Whites and Asians are really screwed.
No, come on.
You know this.
Do you know how much extra an Asian has to score?
In college entrance exams to get the same proportion that's provided to a black?
Aren't they technically minorities as well?
Okay, but it's not even between minorities.
Asians have to score significantly higher in the states where this is allowed.
Asians have to score significantly higher.
There's set-asides for black businesses.
There's set-aside loans.
There's set-aside and affirmative action and jobs and quotas and all of this.
It is a crazy patchwork of advantage and disadvantage for various races.
I feel like affirmative action has probably benefited women more than blacks in general.
Well, look at that.
A program that was invented to help blacks that turns out to not have helped blacks that much.
Well, that's every government program ever known to man, right?
Isn't that crazy?
Yeah.
No, I mean, look, for sure, as far as even playing field goes, I mean, there are no laws that are in the sort of criminal system that are specific to blacks rather than whites or Asians rather than, I don't know, people from the Eskimo land or something, right?
But as far as the clearly identifiable, There's differences in the legal system with regards to affirmative action and grading scores and so on.
Well, yeah, absolutely.
Blacks put a huge advantage relative to other races because of affirmative action and this kind of stuff.
So, no, it's not an even playing field, and sometimes blacks get the short end of the stick.
Sometimes Asians get the short end of the stick.
And I think we need to get rid of all racially conscious laws because it's kind of funny when we want to...
Say, well, we want to live in a less race-conscious society.
Sure, it sounds great.
But how, then, we stop trying to play favorites with all these different groups, you know, because that's just going to create a huge mess all around.
I agree.
Agreed, yeah, for sure.
And it's funny, you know, and again, this is—it's bullshit personal experience, so, you know, take that with all that it's worth, but— Oh, here we go.
No, seriously, this is all just, I mean, it's complete bullshit, but I'll say it anyway.
When I was growing up, I totally envied the black guy, the black guys in school.
I totally envied them.
I'll bite.
Why?
No, because, I mean, they came from stable two-parent homes.
They weren't, I mean, I grew up in Canada, right?
I'm talking about the time sort of posted when I was after 11.
They had really great families.
Like, I had a couple of friends who were blacks that go over and play with them and so on.
They had great families.
Like, I lived in a shithole.
Single mom household.
Like, basically a ghetto.
I mean, you know, not like Harlem ghetto, but, you know, about as ghetto as you can get for, you know, pasty folk.
And I loved going over to my black friend's place.
Because, I mean, they had great moms who had great food.
And it was stable.
And it was lots of fun.
And it was great.
I mean, I totally envied their life.
They were like, they had it all.
And I actually, I met one of these guys not too long ago that I sort of grew up with.
And I mean, he's doing great.
He's, you know, he's like you.
He's in computers and doing fantastically.
We had a really nice chat getting caught up and all that.
So for me, I'm like, man, you mean I'm going to stay this color?
The black guys, they had it made as far as...
I can't remember what ethnicities, where they came from and so on.
Maybe it was East African.
I'm not sure.
But it was a very impressive culture from what I saw.
And that's, again, bullshit personal experience.
But I'm just telling you sort of when I just heard then, when I grew up feeling impoverished relative to the blacks who were around me.
And I had a Jamaican friend who had a single mom, shockingly, and he had it pretty rough, so I'm not saying it was all the same, but the majority of the blacks that I grew up with I had great families and, you know, wealthy, educated and professional parents.
And, you know, one guy was like a great saxophonist and played in the band and, you know, he was a great guy.
And so for me, like growing up, like envying this, like, wow, these black guys have it fantastic.
And then, you know, being told that all I did was oppress them.
Yeah.
You know what?
This is, again, bullshit personal experience, and it doesn't add up to anything, but just so people get some idea where my initial experience was relative to the story that I was told later about race relations.
Of course.
But at the same time, I can say, being from Florida, I've lived in Georgia, as well as North Carolina and South Carolina, the South is a whole new world over there.
Seriously.
I worked for Microsoft there, and as I was looking for, at first I wanted to just rent a room in somebody's apartment just for the month or two as I moved there, as I, you know, settle in the area and go find my own apartment.
There was literally listings on Craigslist saying whites only.
So we can't deny that racism is still definitely alive and well, especially in the South.
No, no, no, hang on, hang on, hang on.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
How do you know that's racism?
What do you mean?
That's not racism?
That's your...
No.
People, this is, again, this is, and I'll plug this guy again because he blew my mind, the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson.
So, Eddie, are they judging skin color or are they judging behavior?
They're judging skin color.
No.
No.
You can't, there's not a behavioral, like, prejudice, if I'm saying whites only, blacks only.
Same thing, if I were just like, hey, looking for a roommate, blacks only.
No, no, no, no, I'm sorry.
Excluding the whole face of people based on their skin color.
Do you think that statistically, and I'm not agreeing with this, you understand, I'm not saying this is good, please, like, I'm not saying this is ideal or anything like that, but I'm just trying to sort of put myself in the mindset of people who might make this particular statement.
Okay, so statistically, do you think that renting to a black person or to a Japanese person, which do you think is slightly more risky?
Oh, man.
See, no, I'm not going to bite for this.
I'm not trying to trick you.
I'm genuinely curious.
No, but now you're dismissing the individual by – and, you know, like it depends.
You're dismissing the individual.
Like, oh, you know what?
They're all like this.
There's a hard chance I'm going to be a Rob.
No, no, no.
I'm not dismissing it.
I already said that we can't judge individuals by standards.
No, I know, but that's exactly what we're doing.
If one individual wants to rent, I'm not saying, hey, all black folks, we're going to come move into your neighborhood.
Now it's just like, holy shit, statistically, if there's a majority of black people here, there's a higher chance, especially like poverty level black people, there's going to be higher crime.
Yes.
You know, but what I'm saying is as an individual, one person looking for a room in your apartment, you're judging, you have to judge based upon that individual.
I understand, like, you know, like, you may feel more comfortable with somebody that looks like you.
There's a whole psychological thing with that.
Like, I think it was a lunchroom project, whatever, experiment, where, you know, you walk into the lunchroom, you're probably going to gravitate towards the people that looks like you because you feel more comfortable with your culture or whatever.
You mean, so, like, I'm going to drift to all the Calvin Klein underwear models.
Like, I totally get that.
Yeah, that makes sense.
What?
I'm just kidding.
Go on, sorry.
I'm just being annoying and interrupting.
Go ahead.
Yeah, that threw me off guard.
I was just like, what?
Yeah, you threw me way off right now.
But yeah, that is definitely a form of racism because you're excluding a whole race.
Now, I'm not saying...
Listen, like, listen, like, I'm from the South.
There's definitely been places where I've been and I look around and there's some, like, I'm like, holy shit, like, I don't feel safe.
And there's a bunch of, like, you know, like, ignorant black dudes that are just, like, you could tell they want drama and they want You know, like, they're looking for something to start.
At the same time, I've been around, like, I've been at predominantly white parties where, like, white dudes would fuck, scare the shit out of me because they want to start shit, too.
Like, we're just other people.
Because, sir, the last bit, what did you say?
Uh...
What do you mean in general?
Sorry, you were at white parties where white dudes wanted to what?
Like, you know, start drama and fight and all this.
They'll probably be the same ignorant stuff that, you know, a white person...
There are assholes everywhere.
I get that's not race-specific, absolutely.
Yeah, no, exactly.
Like, there's...
Statistically, I see what you're saying.
You know, statistically speaking, blacks account for a lot more crime.
I get what you're trying to say, but at the same time, you're dismissing the individual in one case.
If I'm trying to rent a room, if I'm going to rent an apartment, and now you're, oh, I come through, I'm a black male with dreads, holy shit, like, ooh, da-da-da-da-da.
And look, listen, I completely agree with you.
I mean, I have absolutely no problem renting anything to you.
I understand that.
I completely understand that.
First of all, there are black landlords who say white only.
So it's not just as simple as sort of white on black or anything like that.
It's complicated.
That's sort of one aspect of things.
Secondly, it's maybe not just around crime.
It may also be around overcrowding.
It may be around single motherhood.
It may be around any number of things.
It may be around non-payment of rent.
I don't know.
I don't know what these statistics are.
But we do have to—first of all, we do have to make collective judgments at times in life.
And I don't like it, but we have to do it at times for sure.
That's sort of the first thing that I would say.
That's still generalizing, too.
That we should never judge the individual by the actions of the group.
But as a white person, who've basically...
I've been blamed for black underperformance, like I'm just some part of big white racist cog machinery, as I was talking about earlier.
So I have been consistently judged, and I think extremely unjustly, like I've been consistently judged as part of a collective, right?
And brother, I know exactly what that feels like.
And that's what I'm trying to tell you.
If you're going to deny me rent because you're judging me for being part of the whole and the collective, that's still a form of racism.
Same way that the white male is being attacked by feminists and minorities saying, you guys all hate us.
Everybody, oh, white guys suck.
That's still racism because we're saying, oh, everybody's like this.
And that's the issue.
If you're saying you don't see color, it's all the individual, and then I come over and I talk to you like, oh my god, you're pretty smart, that's cool.
I date your daughter, I date your sister.
Oh, I don't want no black guy, I don't want my family.
That's racism, you know what I mean?
Okay, but let me ask you this.
Let's sort of take race out of it, because that's pretty volatile.
Sure.
So let's say that you're running an insurance company, right?
Yeah, I like that.
Okay, you're CEO of an insurance company.
Sounds even better, yeah.
And someone comes up to you and says, you know what?
We should not charge smokers extra in life insurance premiums.
What would you say?
That's a bad move, because statistically speaking, smokers are more likely to die.
And then I would say, that's smokerism, man.
You can't judge individual smokers by the statistical average of the group.
And here's my argument.
Smoking is a choice.
Being fat is a choice.
There's a lot of, well, maybe not being fat.
Let me take that back because there's actually thyroid and other problems that could actually cause you to lose or gain weight.
But your race, my skin color was not a choice.
So, how am I gonna...
Do you want me to appease to every white person or Asian or Spanish dude when I walk by?
Hey, I'm not gonna hurt you.
I'm one of the good ones.
That's racism.
I can't control what my skin looks like, you know?
Like, that's still...
I get what you're saying, though.
Like, you know, statistically saying, like, oh, blacks...
Shit, Chicago is real as hell.
There's literally black people shooting the shit out of each other and others in Chicago.
I'm not denying that.
But, like, there's a lot...
I have a shitload of friends that are...
Intelligent as hell.
CEOs of their own companies.
My brother has his own company.
I have friends with...
Revenue last year was like a million dollars.
I have friends that are pharmacists, lawyers.
And they're all black.
But I'm sure.
But we walk in places and people will be like, whoa, what's going on?
Okay, so for you, smoking is a choice.
Obviously it is.
Smoking is definitely a choice, yeah.
But crime is a choice too, right?
Okay.
I'm going to agree with you, but...
You don't know.
You don't like where I'm...
What tunnel am I dragging Eddie into now?
No, I understand.
I see what you're doing.
I like it.
But I can say this.
What choice are you given if you're in an area...
Where no one wants to hire you.
Where your neighborhood is being gentrified.
Like, they're taking all the jobs away.
Everything's moving away further from you.
Because of your skin.
Because of your name.
And we cannot deny your name.
And your application.
A black guy and a white guy could apply for the same job.
And they're equally qualified.
But because his name is like Raekwon.
Or, you know, like a black sounding name.
He's less likely to get that job because of the name.
So there are biases.
Well, hang on, hang on.
Okay.
So first of all.
A lot of times he'll be more likely to get that job because of affirmative action and set-asides and requirements and quotas and this and that and the other.
So don't talk to the white guy.
I mean, go talk to Scott Adams, who ended up being a cartoonist, because he was told that white males were no longer going to be promoted in any of the industries he worked in.
So that's a big problem as far as that goes.
Secondly, and again, I think we're in agreement on this, but tell me if we're not, that...
Because of affirmative action and because lower qualified blacks are being pushed through the education system, employers on the other side don't know if the black applicant is equally competent to, say, the Japanese applicant or if the black applicant was pushed through Because of affirmative action.
So he knows for sure, in fact, if you have to compare the two, the Japanese applicant who had to score higher, much higher, to get into college relative to the black applicant is probably going to be even better than the average.
And again, I think this is horribly unjust and I completely disagree with it.
There's a 2009 study.
Asian applicant has to score 140 points higher than a white applicant and has to score 320 points higher than a Hispanic applicant and 450 points higher than black applicants on the SAT to be viewed equally.
And the number of Asian applicants to the Ivy League colleges has tripled since 1993, but the proportion of Asians with respect to the student body has stagnated around 18 to 20 percent.
And this is why there are discrimination lawsuits from several groups, including the Asian American Coalition.
So if you're an employer and you're looking at...
If there was no affirmative action, right?
If the standards were equal across the board, then you wouldn't care whether it was a black or an East Asian.
But because of affirmative action, it's not like, oh, well, that's a black guy.
I don't want to hire him.
Look, if businesses, the only color they care about is green, as the old saying goes.
But the problem is they don't know.
If you have to choose between the Japanese guy and the black guy because of affirmative action...
Statistically, you're better off hiring the Japanese guy.
I hate it as much as you do.
But it's not just racism.
Or if it is racism, it's the racism of affirmative action, if that makes sense.
I think it's deeper than that, because if we're gonna...
By the way, I do agree with everything you just said.
The affirmative action, and that kind of sets like a...
It forces you to sometimes to get somebody that may not necessarily be as qualified for the job because you have to meet a certain quota.
I get that.
But at the same time, I could make the argument that Asians in America compared to the black experience in America is totally different.
Totally different.
And I don't want to keep victimizing blacks because I feel like I'm doing the same thing, which I'm kind of trying to argue about the society and the media is doing to blacks.
There's definitely positive stereotypes about blacks that...
I guess about everybody in a way, too, that has their own positive stereotypes as well, too.
But it's true.
Asians, they're not...
Dude, like...
My argument, I feel like I'm kind of drifting because there's so much I want to say in my head, but at the same time, I'm still being open to your perspective.
I hate to tell you this.
You're in a safe space.
You're in a safe space, and I hate to have to say that.
Oh, man, I don't care about a safe space.
Just say what you think.
Come on, man.
This is your show, bro.
No, this isn't.
This is so anti-safe space, bro.
All I want from you is let's just be as honest as we can with each other.
That's what we need, right?
I'll definitely be honest, and I expect the listeners and you to don't hold any punches.
I'm not.
Trust me, I'm not.
Yeah, I'm not easily offended at all.
I'm very secure who I am as a person.
But at the same time, the argument I'm making is just the Asian experience and the black experience in America.
Now, if I'm talking outside of work, just everything else still plays a role in your psyche.
The fix is not just let's dump money into education.
You're saying obviously that's not working, right?
Mm-hmm.
The fix is not just, you know, let's show positive role models of blacks and show them in different social proofing, social and job skills and, you know, whatever, being represented differently in movies and media or whatever.
I'm sorry for...
But it's not just one fix.
Like I said, the analogy with the glass before.
This glass has been broken, especially, like, you know, with the black community.
And Black Americans in America, because slavery, yes, it was years ago, but at the same time, like, desegregation laws was, what, like, 50 years ago, 60 years ago?
Like, there was literally Black and white water fountains.
That plays, that plays, that does something to your mind.
Because your parents, or some of these Black Americans, their parents have to see that.
So they feel inferior, or they may have that in their psyche.
Oh, you know, and some of these, especially in the South, they're telling They're telling their kids, oh no, he's...
I had friends that grew up from extreme racist families, and it was until they actually met others, Hispanics, Blacks, or whatever, other minorities, and they were able to speak to them and see, oh wow, you guys are not all like this.
They start seeing the individuals.
What I'm saying, the stigmas, they're still socially constructed...
socially constructed...
I'm kind of losing my train of thought right now.
But socially constructed laws and rules that are going on that are negatively affecting not just blacks, but Hispanics.
Shit, look at what's going on with Mexicans.
Everything in general right now, that's kind of victimizing and further making blacks feel like the victim.
Now, obviously, it is still up to the individual, especially right now with the internet age.
You could literally learn anything you want from the internet.
You could read books.
It's still a choice.
You don't have to go...
Suck cocaine or crack or whatever.
But when you're pushed in a system where because of your skin color, some places will not hire you.
These are facts.
I understand that some big corporations need certain quotas, quote-unquote, to have certain minorities in their corporations, but mom-and-pop places will not hire you.
There's some places that will not hire you based upon what you look like.
It doesn't matter if I walk in there— Right, but the same thing is true for white people.
Yeah, but it's more true for minorities.
I get what you're saying.
No, no, no, no.
Listen, they don't hire me because of my skin color.
Only applying to blacks does not work after affirmative action.
That's law.
I mean, you can't go to college if you're Asian because you have to score 450 points higher.
So if you score 449 points higher, the black guy goes to college and you don't.
People are excluded for being non-black.
All the time in America.
And one may be personal prejudice, and that's bad enough.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not agreeing with that.
But the other one is codified into law and financial incentives, like set-asides and preferential loans and preferential policies.
And if you want to do business with the federal government, you have to have quotas for hiring minorities and so on.
So one of them is personal prejudice.
You know, and so if you're a black guy and there's like some stereotypical white southern tabacchi-chewing racist guy, okay, that guy's an asshole.
I'm sorry he's there, but at least he doesn't have the power to enforce it across the land in law and set-asides and preferential hiring policies that are engraved into the very codification of how people do business, right?
Personal racism is bad, obviously, but when you have institutional racism like affirmative action...
You know, that's worse, wouldn't you say?
Oh, I want to agree with you, but this is a slippery slope.
This is a slippery slope, my brother.
But listen, there are judges that are biased.
At the same time, I will agree that blacks do commit, if we're talking just based upon race or whatever, excessively more crime than other races.
But when it comes to the...
The time and the rate that they're being sent to jail is tremendously higher because blacks are being given longer sentences and the judicial system is a lot harsher upon blacks and minorities compared to a white person.
Hang on.
These are facts.
Hang on.
Don't make me get my Googles.
Please, get your Google.
Let's sort this out because, I mean, I've heard the same arguments and I believed them for many years and, you know, maybe you've studied a lot more and maybe you're completely right, but...
My understanding is that if you take into account prior convictions, it normalizes out.
No.
That's my understanding.
There's, um, oh man, like, I don't like giving misinformation, but there's definitely like, uh, was that rape thing?
Oh man, I don't even want to talk about it.
No, individually, individually, the system, look, there, don't get me wrong, Eddie, I completely agree with you, there are individual racists.
So there are racist judges.
There are white racist judges against blacks.
I'm sure there's some Polynesian judges who hates Guatemalans.
Like, I don't know.
Who knows, right?
So as far as individual situations go, but as far as general incarceration rates, and what you're talking about particularly is sentencing, and there's a book called, it's really a pamphlet called The Color of Crime.
But if you take into account prior convictions, like the full rap sheet, Then it does normalize out.
Now, if you say, okay, well, this white guy was arrested for stealing a car, and this black guy was arrested for stealing a car, and the black guy got twice the prison sentence, that, like, on the face of it, that is obviously wrong and unjust.
But if you take into account prior convictions, it normalizes out.
But yeah, but at the same time, I could argue that there has been cases where, like, you know, like, I don't want to bring rape.
Rape is such, like, a touchy subject, and everybody's going to, you know...
Whatever.
But there's definitely, I don't know the exact two cases, but it's fairly recent, within like a year.
And these two, you know, this white dude raped this girl and he got off with probation and a white and a black dude.
You know, he wasn't even convicted and he got, you know, like, he's serving in jail right now.
He had no prior cases.
But I don't want to talk, you know, it's very broad because I can't really back it up with facts.
First of all, I hope we'll talk again because I'm really, really enjoying the conversation and I appreciate us being able to talk about this.
Let's leave this one for the readers to look into and I'll put the link to my sources below and people can look into this.
Because, you know, when we have different facts, it's really boring for us to both go Google and it's too much, you know, time pressure.
Oh, man, I have my Googles ready for you, too.
Like, I was ready to Google.
I'll Google you right now, too.
But thank you again for this conversation.
This was very healthy.
Oh, here we go.
If you don't mind.
So some of the numbers, right?
Like, in terms of American black criminality.
213, right?
Sorry.
Oh, my God.
Once I was able to read numbers.
What I mean by that is not shortly after the birth of Jesus, but 2013.
Let's try that again.
So, in 2013, of the approximately 660,000 crimes of interracial violence that involved blacks and whites, blacks were the perpetrators 85% of the time.
This meant a black person was 27 times more likely to attack a white person than a white person was to attack a black person.
27 times more likely for a black person to attack a white person than vice versa.
A Hispanic was 8 times more likely to attack a white person than vice versa.
And so when I hear stories of black victimization from 60 years ago, from 100 years ago, from 150 years ago, I sympathize.
Don't get me wrong.
I mean, I'm as horrified by that history as anyone.
But when we're starting to talk right now, when blacks are attacking whites 27 times more, when I hear stories of black victimization— I gotta tell you, it's a little hard to go all the way there, if you understand that.
Yeah, I agree with you.
Listen, and low-key, I'm kind of mad because you did your Googles and you didn't tell me we're Googling.
I had my Google ready for you, but...
You know what?
We'll do our web food the next time.
We'll be fully prepared the next time we get into it.
Yeah, sounds good, my brother.
And the other thing, too, as far as history of victimization goes, the Jews in Europe...
Had it pretty rough for a long time, you know, excluded from professions, driven out pogroms and murders and unjust laws and not allowed to own land and, you know, just hounded from place to place and so on.
And then, of course, there was that whole matter of, well, the occurrences in World War II, which were, you know, horrendous.
Now, after all of this, and this went on for more than a thousand years and was substantial, not exactly the same as slavery, police like I understand that, but went on for a lot longer.
When the Jews who escaped Europe came to North America, came to America...
They had nothing.
I mean, the Nazis wouldn't let them leave with anything.
They left with, like, the clothes on their back and whatever money they could hide up their ass.
I don't know, right?
But they came to America with nothing after well over a thousand years of intense persecution followed by an attempt at genocide.
Bad.
Bad stuff.
Rough stuff.
How long do you think it took for the Jews who came to America to achieve income parity with white people?
Listen, my argument would be Jews did not have systematic laws placed to segregate them against people that did not look like them.
Jews could assimilate more into the culture because obviously there's definitely phenotype differences, I'm sure hair or whatever, but there's definitely Jewish people that you'd be like, oh, I didn't even know you were Jewish.
Just basic upon looks and phenotypes.
There were laws stated that if you look like this, you are subpar human.
If you look like this, you cannot drink here, you cannot sit here.
These laws play a role in your psyche.
Jews were welcomed here with open arms.
Black Americans were traded here.
They were cattle.
They were property.
When you were treated as property for such a long time, and then they were like, okay, you're free, but yet you're still not free because you still have to work in the same plantation you were at, and you have nowhere to go.
You have no property.
Just like I'm saying, Jews didn't have any property.
Let's say they all started equal places as well, too, but not even being told, hey, Jews, your kids cannot go to school with my kids.
Oh, there's a Jew water fountain over there.
I'm not...
You know, like, and I don't want to seem super biased.
Obviously, I am black, whatever.
I see that experience.
But what you're saying is valid.
What I'm saying is valid as well.
You know, like, because that...
The psychological damage that happens to a lot of these black Americans is still going on today, especially when the left, when people are still telling them, you're the victim, dude.
You're the victim.
Over-victimizing them.
They're going to feel like the victim, and they don't want to do shit because, fuck it, I'm the victim.
Everybody hates me anyway.
No, and listen, because this is great, and it's not a great topic, but I think, you know, I really, really appreciate what you were talking about.
And I certainly don't want to say that the black experience in America...
It was not horrible for a long time.
Of course it was.
I mean, no question.
I mean, the horror that Europeans and North Americans had regarding slavery was precisely why whites ended slavery.
Right?
Slavery has existed and had existed for as long as human beings have existed.
Like, they can find key paintings of slave trading from 10,000 years ago.
Yeah, you take over the village, you make the men slaves, and you take the women and children.
I get that.
Yeah, for sure.
And so, you know, and white people were slaves.
My ancestors, the Irish, were slaves.
Not only in the Middle East, where it was horrendous, but there were slaves treated even worse than blacks, because they weren't considered as good workers in the sun, because, you know, we are like vampires.
We explode with too much sunlight.
And so, I mean, the slavery was horrendous.
But if it was slavery...
Right, Eddie?
If it was slavery alone, why was the black family so much better off post-slavery than now?
Why was it stronger?
Why was it more cohesive?
Why was it, like, you've got these incredible stories of black male slaves crossing three states, which was really hard to do before a car, to go and rejoin their families.
And now you have, like, three-quarters of American black kids being born out of wedlock.
If it was all slavery, then we would expect the black family and black achievements and black education and black social mobility to be that much worse when you were closer to slavery.
But it's gotten worse in many ways.
As time has passed.
So if slavery was the problem, why was the black family so much stronger 80 years ago than it is now?
Because you had to work for something.
Back then, you knew you were, you know, like, you know you came from nothing.
You know, like, I'm assuming, I mean, I was born in Haiti.
We were freed from slavery from, you know, over 200 plus years ago, and we fought for independence.
And one of the I'm not going to get too much into Haitian rhetoric.
Next time, I hope, though.
Yeah, let's have a next time.
But listen, if I literally – and I don't know about you.
I'm pretty sure if you saw your mom getting whipped and knew she was a slave and now you're free, you know you have not only – you would be doing yourself a disservice as well as your mother and everybody else a huge disservice if you took your freedom lightly and you did not do anything you know you have not only – you would be doing yourself Same thing after blacks and women when they got the rights to vote.
Voting for minorities and women were huge.
Everybody went out and voted because they knew that we didn't have this a while ago.
Now that I'm saying like everybody – the rhetoric that's being pushed down on all these blacks and minorities now is you're the victim.
People are believing they're victim.
Therefore, they don't want to do shit.
I think that's what's going on.
And look, 1920, there was Black Wall Street.
Was it in Oklahoma?
I don't know.
Black Wall Street.
And it was a huge street where blacks had huge businesses and a lot of cash flow, banks.
Very successful.
What happened?
Like, a bunch of white racist dudes came, they burned the city down, killed numerous amount of blacks.
This is 1920.
Richard, Richard, and of course the government did not drag these people off and hang them from the highest rafters, right?
They're murderers, right?
Yeah, look, I don't have the answers.
And that's why I think this conversation is very healthy.
And I would love for your listeners to actually...
I'm probably going to read the comments as well, too.
And I want us to have these conversations.
You might want to put on a hazmat suit.
It's YouTube.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's going to be insane.
But, you know, I'm sure some of them will be very helpful.
Sorry, go on.
I don't know.
I would like to think I'm a very open-minded individual and people down in the comments or people, whoever's listening, would agree or have constructive criticism, you know, and talks about this.
But if not, whatever.
But the point is, and, you know, like...
What I actually got from this conversation, there's no—nobody has the answers.
The government tried with the funding.
It didn't work.
If they knew, if it was a money issue, it would have been fixed already.
It's more than money.
It's more than money.
I think it's pride.
I think the money's making it worse, but go on.
Yeah, I could argue and say the same thing.
The money might be making it worse because you're rewarding people that are having freaking three, four kids.
You're rewarding with Section 8 and welfare and all that.
So why the hell should I need a job if I'm chilling here and I'm getting paid to have babies?
But I mean, like, you know, although I still feel like they're making a welfare recipient face of it as minorities where a lot of whites are benefiting from it as well, too.
But whatever, like, you know, like...
This is a societal thing.
Even the millennials, people are not...
I would like to say intellect is on a decline now.
It's not cool to be smart.
There's a lot of things that...
I feel like a lot has changed.
And overall, my closing argument would be that nobody has the answers.
Nobody knows exactly how to fix it.
But I still think, you know, proper and smart conversation and just the awareness of, you know, the individual.
Like, me knowing that, you know, like, there is a war on white males as well.
That, you know, like, you know, with segregation, I'm sorry, that affirmative action, what that does, especially to the psyche of some white males as well too, feeling that, hey, I'm qualified for this job, but you'd rather give it to a minority.
That's still a form of racism.
I get that.
Because now you're rewarding You're being fair to somebody else due to their race and their skin color.
I get that.
But at the same time, you can't lie and say that the black experience in America is equivalent to the white experience, to the Asian experience, to the Spanish experience.
They're completely different, bro.
When I walk into a store, even though I'm well-spoken, I wear a suit, I make probably more money than everybody at the store, they say, oh, look at this nigga.
It's a different experience.
It's a psychological experience.
You know, like, where you could feel like, oh, you're...
And it almost sounds like I'm victimizing myself, almost.
And that's, you know, I give power to the individual, for sure.
Because, you know, as an individual, and I really feel like I'm rambling.
I don't want to keep rambling.
No, no, I love what you're saying.
Please go.
Keep going.
Yeah, but I just feel like, you know, as an individual, we still hold the power.
I don't want to say, like, you know, every black person is, you know, we're this, we're that, we're victim.
No, like, I don't know, like, you know, I know...
We all know there's a lot of smart blacks, there's smart Asians, everything, for sure.
But the issue is there's not a fair starting ground for everybody, for everybody, including the white male, including the white women, the black.
It's not a perfect system for everybody.
I think everybody does not have the equal starting ground, and I think that's the issue.
If society, if everybody not really give a fuck what you look like, Your phenotype, where you came from, and they strictly judge the individual.
A lot of these issues, including gun violence, a lot of these would not happen because I feel like everybody will be more inclined.
And they would understand, like, hey, you know, like, they'll take blame for their own, you know, mishaps or their own, for what's going on for them.
But when you're victimizing a group, when you're saying, hey, you're like this because of them, Oh, the white man hates you, so that's why it's like this.
Hey, come over here.
Vote for us.
We're going to help you.
We're going to keep pushing money and rewarding you to not do anything.
That's wrong, too.
I get that.
But you can't lie and say, like, you know, it's Black's fault, too, and we're treated fairly, and, you know, we should, you know, hey, dress better, guys.
Carry yourself differently, and racism will be over.
Hey, Obama's in office, so there's no more racists.
Like, That's unfair, you know?
Right, and it's a great speech, and there's not much I'm going to disagree with.
Just for the record, since I asked the question rhetorically, the Jews, the Ashkenazi Jews, who came from Europe after persecution and genocide, took four years to get to income parity with whites.
Native welfare usage in America, on average 30%, Asian 22%, white 23%, Hispanic 54%, and blacks 55%.
So you're absolutely right.
There are a lot of whites On welfare as well.
There are more whites numerically on welfare than blacks, but of course, by proportion of the population, it's much higher in the black community.
And I agree with you.
I mean, slavery, but, you know, everyone's been a slave.
Everyone's been a slave.
And why the group that ended slavery should be the most punished for the effects of slavery remains incomprehensible.
I don't know if you're a father, but I will tell you this as a father.
It is not my daughter's fault that blacks are doing badly in the West.
No, it's nobody's fault today.
And I don't want her to have to suffer.
I don't want her to be called racist.
I don't want her to have to not, like, she gets refused a legitimate entrance to wherever she wants to go, whatever she wants to do in life because of affirmative action laws.
It is not her fault.
And if we keep bouncing back and forth this blame game, it's never going to end.
I think people need to understand that.
Because this affirmative action stuff and this increased breakdown in the black community of families, massive amounts of crime in the black communities.
Look at Detroit.
When I did The Truth About Detroit, I got so many people who emailed me and said, Detroit was a beautiful city.
It was a beautiful city.
In the post-Second World War period, it was the richest city in North America.
And now people look at it, and they look at the demographics, and they say, wow, this is not good.
You know, this bouncing back and forth of blame and resentment, it will never end.
At some point, we're going to have to draw a line in the sand and say, I know it's painful, but we have to stop blaming each other.
We have to stop saying, well, you know, you guys were slave owners, and you say, well, you guys do commit a lot of crime.
Exactly.
And this has to coincide with a significant change in how we approach race relations and poverty.
The welfare state doesn't work.
Affirmative action doesn't work.
These set-asides don't work.
All it does is make us much more race-conscious.
And we do need to take into account that there are IQ differences between various ethnicities that do an enormous amount to explain the differences.
Whether it's environmental, whether it's genetic, needs to be explored, needs to be understood.
Because, I'm sure you'll agree with me here, If it turns out that the significant proportion of IQ differences between ethnicities are genetic, then we're calling my daughter a racist, potentially.
For genetics, she has absolutely no control over and cannot do anything to alter it.
That is completely unjust.
So we need to keep exploring these issues.
Eddie, I really appreciate a great conversation.
You are very good at this.
I really appreciate that.
Thank you.
It's great to meet somebody who's fantastic at pushing back on these issues.
Is there anything else that you wanted to get across?
I don't want you to sort of end the conversation and say, but the most important point of what it had didn't matter.
Is there anything else you wanted to say?
Oh, I wish I had some crazy bomb to drop that was just going to like, boom, and everyone's going to be like, oh my god, he won.
But honestly- Hey, we both won.
I agree.
I'll shake to that.
But- Before I give my final thing, I just wanted to say that you, nor any other white person, Asian, anybody else should ever have to apologize for your doing of people that look like them hundreds of years ago.
That's unjust.
No, you had nothing to do with that.
Most people alive right now had nothing to do—I mean, all of them, I would assume, unless they're vampires—had nothing to do with slavery.
There's no reason why I should resent you for something your great-great-grandparents did.
I get that.
That's ignorant.
That's stupid.
I expect everybody here to call something.
Let's get rid of these safe places.
Call people out on it.
Like, hey, you're acting fucking ignorant.
Let me call you out on it.
Do this.
Why not mentor?
Why not help?
We're scared to have these conversations.
By telling all blacks that whites hate you, you don't want to speak to whites.
By telling whites that they're all violent, you're scared to speak to us.
Oh, and especially now, this whole PC movement that everybody needs to be politically correct.
Nobody wants to have these uncomfortable conversations.
I know damn well blacks are fucking killing blacks in Chicago, but if a white person tells me, oh dude, that's racist, that's not fucking racist, that's facts and observation.
I get that.
But you know what I mean?
We need to have these conversations.
I feel like that's the issue.
We're not having enough of these conversations.
I don't want to take no more time.
I do want to say that I actually do want to start a podcast as well too, so I might I'm not even going to give a Seamus plug.
I'm going to give you...
I'm going to put in your power.
I'm going to send you a link.
And if you decide to plug it with the video, you do.
Oh, listen.
If you're starting a show, let us know.
I mean, I'd love to hear it.
And I'd love to help you get some ears to your throat.
I do.
Because I would love to have these conversations, man.
Like, every time I talk to, you know, my friends or buddies that look like me, people that do not look like me, we always get something out of it.
And it's very...
It's very important to talk about.
I feel like it is.
Because there's no reason why you should feel like your daughter needs to apologize for a black dude being fucking lazy.
That's not...
You know what I mean?
Like, that's the truth, bro.
Like, some are.
Like, I get it.
I wouldn't put it in those terms, so I'm glad it was you, not me.
Let's end up.
I appreciate the conversation, and I look forward to people's feedback.
If you like Eddie and I having a chat, and I certainly do, then I would like if people could let us know, and we'd love to invite you back.
And, you know, we kind of jumped into, like, six million different topics, and, you know, some of it is kind of like half-remembered stuff from presentations two years ago, so...
You know, if you want to come back on, and I hope you do, then let's get a nice defined topic and have all our facts in line and have a great chat.
So thanks so much, Eddie.
Really, really appreciate the conversation.
Let's move on to the next caller.
All right.
Up next, we have Jordy.
He is from the Netherlands, and he wrote this before the results of the election last night.
He said, All established parties in the Netherlands have ruled out a coalition with the PVV of Gert Wilders, even if the populace were to become the largest faction.
What should be the next step for the PVV and its supporters if they are continually excluded from government?
That's from Jordi.
Hey, Jordi, how you doing?
Hey, Stefan, how are you doing?
Oh no, don't worry about me.
How are you doing?
Because now the election has come and gone?
Yes, yes.
Yesterday?
And how was it for you?
I, of course, kept track of it during the day, but a little bit, even more immediate for you than it was for me.
So how was the day for you?
Yeah, the day was very eventful.
We had our first exit poll in the evening, and in the Netherlands it's usually very...
Reliable already so unlike the exit poll with Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump which I believe indicated that Hillary had won ours was actually accurate and it happened at 9 p.m.
and it was a disappointing result for the PVV because all of 2016 they had been at about 30 seats in the polls but the actual result was 20 seats and So they gained five seats.
It was still a small victory, but overall it was disappointing.
It didn't really match our expectations.
Yeah, I mean, so you can certainly look at it that way, and that's perfectly valid, but Wilder and his Party for Freedom did get a third more seats than they had at the last election, or than they got at the last election, and the liberal centrist Prime Minister Mark Rutte, is it Rutte?
Is that right?
Rutte.
Rutte.
And his VVD party, they lost 25% of their seats.
So it's a movement, but it's certainly not...
I mean, it's in the right direction, but it's not nearly far enough.
Is that a fair way to put it?
Yeah, sure, sure.
Yeah, they have grown a bit.
But the bigger issue, which was my question to you, I'm really curious...
Because many of us on the right in the Netherlands are looking for these solutions.
If we continue to keep getting excluded, I'm personally not a member of the PVV, but I feel as though I am as a voter.
But if we are continually excluded from government because the other parties form coalitions, what would be a good alternative?
What are our options if that's the case?
Right.
I mean, so, for those who don't know, Mike, did you want to mention a little bit of what you had looked into with regards to what is referred to as democracy in the Netherlands?
Yeah, the situation in the Netherlands and France, for what it's worth, boy, it seems really difficult for any kind of change party to get traction, given that it's so fractured.
There is no two-party system.
For example, in the Netherlands, I mean, good God, how many...
Yeah, we had more than 20 running, and I believe about 13 actually ended up in Parliament.
So then they have to get together and try and form a government.
Trying to form a government, get together, get people to agree on enough stuff to actually get things done.
So even if Wilders had won and come out with the most seats and his party had come out with the most seats...
Pretty much all the major parties said, yeah, we're not going to work with you.
So what the heck would have happened?
Would it just been stalemates and nothing happening?
I mean, we're seeing the problems that Trump is having just trying to get anything done, even when the law is supposed to be fine.
And it's been slow going at best.
And going to France, which is coming up, the way they have it also makes it difficult for any kind of major change candidate, because there's one election, and then the two highest polling people move to a second election.
So, you know, if there's someone that's a little extreme, quote unquote, they're likely to get evened out and outvoted by the second election, because Marine Le Pen looks to be doing pretty good in the first election.
She's probably going to make it.
Might win that one, and then she's certainly going to be in the top two, moves on to the second election, but Most of the polling says she's going to lose the second election.
So the idea that, hey, if you're not happy with the way things are going, you can affect change by voting.
Boy!
I mean, it's bad in the United States, as Steph has talked about for many, many years.
But seeing the political setup in France and most definitely the Netherlands, good God, achieving any kind of positive change or effective action quick at the voting booth seems next to me.
Yeah, exactly.
Because I think one of the big issues is I think a democracy benefits if people vote strategically.
And what we've seen in this election is that a lot of people have voted for the smaller parties.
So they voted with their hearts.
They voted for the party that perfectly aligns with their viewpoint out of this selection of over 20 different parties.
And I think if you have to vote strategically, you get to the core issues.
You get like, do I want this paradigm shift or do I want things to stay the same, for example?
And I think if you want to affect change in a country such as the PVV by Wildos wants to do, that would help get more votes.
Well, you would think if there was ever going to be an election where people would say, okay, we need to just vote for someone that's going to affect change that needs to be done now, regardless of maybe we just be on some other subjects.
I mean, the issue in all these elections is immigration first and foremost, and national sovereignty.
I mean, that's what's coming up in France.
That was certainly at the forefront in the Netherlands.
And good God, I mean, on the eve of the election, you have the president of Turkey threatening war with...
Hundreds of thousands of Turks currently residing in the Netherlands.
And, well, Wilder's got 33% more seats.
That's good and all.
I mean, that's not enough to actually do something.
I mean, there's people still talking about the idea that the Netherlands could still hold a referendum to possibly leave the European Union, but I mean, with that level of support for the mainline factions and parties...
I don't know how successful that's going to be.
And good God, if there was ever anything that was going to spark people into going, okay, we need to vote straight immigration and who's going to do what they need to do for the sovereignty of our country.
I mean, Wilders was that guy.
His party was the party to vote for.
And while they did better than they did last time, still not enough to really get anything done.
So I don't have any easy answers for any political change happening within the Netherlands.
I mean, if there is a referendum, That will certainly be interesting, and that would be worth going to the ballot box to cast your thoughts on.
But are they even going to hold a referendum?
Is there enough support of the parties that are in positions of power currently to even get a referendum on the table as an option?
I don't know the answer to that question.
No, no.
I don't believe there is a majority and after the example that David Cameron set, a very dramatic example, he totally overplayed his hand in that regard.
He thought he'd win quite easily and then he had to exit prematurely.
I don't think that any European Union loving party would dare initiate a referendum.
In these volatile times.
So no, I don't think that's going to happen.
But you've perfectly described the pickle that we're in, which is why I'm searching for these answers.
So I was quite interested in your take on this.
Like, what are the other options you might have?
You can continue to grow over time and just approach people, try to be more persuasive.
But if there's anything else we can do, I'd be glad to hear it.
Mike, is there anything you wanted to add to that or thoughts about where things might go?
I may have some follow-ups with you, Steph, but if you've got something important to say, feel free to...
Oh, I can wait, so go for it.
No, you go.
Go ahead.
Well, I'm sorry.
What was your name again?
Jordi.
Jordi, okay.
So, right now, Europe as a whole, this is my opinion, obviously, but right now, Europe as a whole, Is in a holding pattern.
They have brought in enormous numbers of migrants from the Middle East, from the Third World.
And they're keeping the peace by throwing money at the problem.
Clearly, a lot of the migrants have come.
They're not fleeing war.
They're looking for benefits.
They're looking for welfare benefits, right?
You can get thousands of dollars worth of welfare benefits by making it to Europe as a migrant.
Because the number who are getting jobs is very small.
So right now, the migrants are there because the government is firing money at them.
This cannot continue indefinitely.
The government will run out of money.
It's another reason why it's tougher to leave the euro If you have a lot of migrants, because then you have to go back to your own currency, perhaps, and then the real deficits will become more apparent.
So, right now, it's the eye of the hurricane.
The migrants are in, and the problem of assimilation, the problem of integration, the problem of working together is being solved By welfare and by self-segregation and by keeping the migrant population away, in many ways, from the ebb and flow of life, because they're not often working, they're in refugee camps, they're in their own neighborhoods, they may be in no-go zones.
So in many ways, the problem, if there is to be a problem, and I think there may well be, the problem remains somewhat invisible to the average person from the Netherlands.
The taxes have not gone up enormously.
Integration.
People aren't, in a sense, cheek by jowl with the migrants.
The migrants are self-segregated and also segregated by the state from society, and they're funded by debts and deficit and so on.
So in some ways, it's like the eye of the storm.
Tell me, I mean, you're on the ground.
This is sort of my idea.
Tell me if it sort of fits with your thoughts and experience or not.
Yeah, true.
I'm reporting live here on the ground.
Yeah, and we also haven't had a major terrorist attack recently here in the Netherlands, such as these machete attacks like in Germany, or these truck drivers in Berlin and Nice, or the horrible attacks in Paris.
For me, those are all very scary realities and we're all in the Schengen zone.
I feel connected to these countries, but maybe that also plays a part, that people feel like it wouldn't happen in our own country.
Right.
So right now, if Heert Wilders were to get a clear mandate and were to have enough power to enact what he wants, I'm guessing that people in the Netherlands feel that this would be provoking a lot of problems in the society.
If he were to implement his solutions?
Yes.
You know, in terms of closing mosques and banning the Koran, and like, I mean, this would cause a lot of problems, maybe even violence and so on, within the society, right?
So right now, the stimulus to act is not present.
Because the problems have not manifested.
And again, I argue it's because of segregation and firing money at the problem.
And so the problems haven't manifested, and therefore the solution seems worse than the problem, because the problem has not manifested as yet.
Does that make any sense?
Yeah, yeah, true, yeah.
Now, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
What you're basically saying, and I don't want to make too dramatic a comparison, but I was recently reading a biography on Churchill.
So what you're basically saying is that If you're in the 1930s and you see a looming threat, and in the case of Wilders, it's ongoing Islamization of society, this mass immigration.
If you see this threat, and in the case of Churchill, it was Nazism, the rise of Hitler.
You basically got to wait for terrible events to happen before the people oust these appeasers, these people who Only make the problem worse.
You've got to wait until Poland is invaded, basically.
Well, I mean...
I don't want to make it too dramatic.
In many ways, just in terms of the history of World War II, that was the very worst time to act.
It may have even been better to wait.
But anyway, so either...
Either there won't be any problems or there will be problems.
Demographically and looking across history and looking across the world, problems seem to be kind of inevitable.
And to the degree of those problems and so on, I think it's fairly clear that People who are from another culture prefer that culture in general, just as you would prefer your culture if you went to that other culture.
And so if they get a significant proportion and cohesiveness in the polls, then they're going to start to vote to have their own culture in your country.
I mean, that's inevitable.
That's natural.
It happens all the way throughout history and all the way across the world.
And so the question is...
Is that when the pushback occurs?
If that's the case, then it's going to be more problematic.
I mean, the longer you wait, if there is going to be a problem, then the longer you wait, the worse it gets, right?
It's like if you have a lump in your throat, the longer you take to go to the doctor, the worse it's going to be.
So as far as what can be done if you're a fan of Heard Wilders and so on, well, you need to keep talking about the potential problems.
And then if those potential problems come to pass, if it turns out that worst fears become realized and so on, if there's increasing radicalization and attacks and so on, then you gain the credibility of having been right.
I mean, there's a reason why, again, this is no direct analogy.
This is a very loosey-goosey kind of analogy.
But there's a reason why Churchill was vaulted to the head of the government because he'd been right for so long, that he was the only person that people trusted.
All the people who got it wrong with regards to Hitler, all those people had no credibility with the citizenry as a whole.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
So you keep talking about the potential problems, and you keep talking about the reasons behind them, and you keep talking about the historical examples, and you keep talking about the demographics.
And if you're wrong, well...
You're wrong, right?
And you won't have any credibility, which may seem somewhat more likely to some.
If you're right, then if the problems hit, then you will be vaulted forward in terms of credibility in people's minds.
Does that make any sense?
Yeah, so it's basically a win-win in the sense that if you're wrong, the terrible things won't have happened, and if you're right, then...
At least you get to fix the problem because you finally get the votes.
You will finally get the votes.
But you have to be out there and present to whatever degree you can legally in your country.
And peacefully within your country, you have to be out there and present talking about these issues.
I am making predictions and almost all the predictions that I make, I really, really hope to be proven wrong.
I mean, with the exception of Donald Trump getting into the presidency.
I love nothing more than being wrong.
I just am not wrong very often.
That's all.
Like if your doctor says, stop smoking because you're going to get sick, the doctor doesn't want you to get sick.
He wants you to not get sick, which is why he hopes he's wrong.
If you don't quit smoking, he doesn't say, gosh, I hope he gets sick.
Because I predicted he would.
The doctor's happy if you don't, but he expects that you will.
And so you have to be out there making the case publicly about what you anticipate is going to happen.
If what you anticipate, if the negatives you anticipate do come to pass, We're good to go.
And we're not there yet in Europe.
France may be there.
Germany, a little tough to say.
And when it comes to how you debate or how you talk about these things with people, scaring the shit out of them is an entirely viable option.
You know, I mean, I wish that there was evidence that people made their decisions based on reason and evidence, but they don't.
And if there's one thing we've learned from the environmentalists, and if there's one thing we've learned from the left, fear-mongering really, really works.
And I'm not saying make up things, but there are historical parallels and examples that can be talked about that might scare people, and that's not a bad thing.
Did you see any of the...
What was going on prior to the election with Turkey, the protests?
Were you around for any of that?
Did you see any of that?
No, I wasn't in Rotterdam at the time, but obviously I saw a lot of TV coverage, a lot of the footage and a lot of the responses all around.
And it was very surreal because you expect someone with a little bit of tact not to play up the situation the way they did from Turkey's side, just in general.
I'm sorry, are you putting turkey and tact in the same sentence?
I've never really heard that before in my life.
Okay.
In my life.
Yes, yes.
And I say this having had one of my best friends when I was a kid, his name was Sirdar from Turkey.
Off the light, off the light, he said.
And that's when I first tasted the revolting contraption known as sugared milk.
But anyway, yeah, Turkey and tact, you're all Nazis!
It doesn't always necessarily go in the same sentence, trippingly.
No, sure, sure, sure, sure.
But I meant...
Well, even to become an awful fascist dictator, which Erdogan, the Turkish leader, currently is.
Actually, it's Erdogan.
I just wanted to point out that it's Obi-Wan.
It's Erdogan.
People told me about that.
So the G is silent, but sorry, go ahead.
Okay, I don't want to piss him off, so I'll pronounce it correctly.
Erdogan.
So even to become a fascist dictator, it takes a little bit of cunning.
So I hadn't expected him to kind of Interfere with our elections by by revolting against the Netherlands Just a couple of days before before polling But it was a pretty pretty crazy situation because it kept escalating and escalating and all of a sudden So that minister got arrested.
He was not allowed to campaign on behalf of a party over here Which is a new party that says that Integration is a bad idea and that people should always keep their own culture and they really try to get the votes from the Turkish Dutch people and the Moroccan Dutch people who are over here.
And he wanted to campaign and he was banned and he came anyways and he was arrested.
But then very quickly in Rotterdam you had 500 people standing there throwing stones at the police.
Hitting a policeman, hitting other people, and it was a true riot.
And then shortly after that, you had the consulate in a Turkish city, a Dutch consulate, and they were standing outside there as well.
And they even removed the Dutch flag and they hoisted the Turkish flag, which is, someone told me technically that's an act of war, but anyways.
So it kept getting worse and worse, and now the last news is that today they were calling for a holy war against the Netherlands, and it's all been pretty intense and pretty insane.
Wait, Muslims?
A holy war?
Yes, yes.
I guess this is the first time for everything in human history.
Yes.
Wow.
And how do you feel about what happened and where things are in the Netherlands?
Well, I think the issues are very big.
I don't think we're as bad as some of the other Western European countries.
For example, we're no Sweden.
Freedom of speech is still pretty good.
I think the media, even though it's definitely leftist, is...
More reliable than what I've seen from American media following the elections there.
But we do have huge issues.
We do have the idea of these parallel societies.
That's basically what they are.
These people who are stuck in their own communities, who increasingly speak their own language.
I think the video you did on the Netherlands was a great gift to us.
I shared it with a lot of people on the statistics of Second generation and at later generations and that things have actually gotten worse over here and that's true.
That's true.
So one of the things people deal with is not...
We call it a street terror.
It's when...
Maybe we should stop calling it that because now we have real terror, but we've been calling it that for a long time.
We call it street terror.
It's when When young people are born to Moroccan parents and they terrorize the streets, so at night you're no longer safe in some of the cities because you'll get fondled or robbed or abused or molested in some way.
So we have those kind of issues, but as you said before, the really big stuff hasn't manifested yet.
We've had our assassinations 10 years ago, but But none of the terror attacks or the...
It hasn't entered the daily life of each Dutchman yet.
Yeah, I mean, there may be, of course, hope in the long run that the demographics are going to achieve, you know, half of Rotterdam is immigrants now, statistically.
Muslims are 13% of the population, right?
I mean, there's a birth rate discrepancy, everybody knows about it, and it's something that people need to be aware of.
All right.
Is there anything else you wanted to add to...
I hope I've given...
You know, just keep speaking the truth, keep being passionately involved and engaged in the discussion.
If the miracle happens, nothing bad comes to pass, it's a great thing to be wrong about.
And if bad things do come to pass...
It's a sad credibility that you will inherit that you won't otherwise get.
So that's my particular recommendation.
Yeah, thanks a lot.
It really answers my question.
And it removes my fear that the only solution is going to be that all the patriots somehow sneak their way into the US or something, or emigrate legally, let's say.
But that we can actually Keep going.
Keep convincing people of the looming threat.
And then if things go awry, then we will somehow manage to get more votes and fix the problems that then surface.
So thanks a lot for that.
You're welcome.
And remember, if you want to get into America, at least while the liberal judges have their say, just go to Syria and scrawl some reasonable facsimile of your name on a piece of toilet paper and wave it at whoever's on the other side of the cardboard border.
Thanks everyone so much for your calls tonight.
I really, really appreciate it.
It's always great at engaging in positive discussions that go on in this.
Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback on Fritz.
Thanks for the first call.
Thanks to Eddie.
Thanks to you, my friend from the Netherlands.
And have yourself a wonderful evening.
Please, please don't forget to go by freedomainradio.com slash donate.
