Feb. 17, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
30:11
3596 The Truth About Immigration and Crime in the Netherlands
Much like with Brexit (United Kingdon's European Union Referendum) and the United States election featuring Donald Trump – Immigration has taken center stage in politics worldwide. On March 15th, 2017, the Netherlands will decide it’s future when it holds it’s parliamentary elections which have been highlighted by current Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte and Party for Freedom's Geert Wilders.Sources: http://www.fdrurl.com/truth-about-netherlandsFreedomain Radio is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by signing up for a monthly subscription or making a one time donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Free Domain Radio.
I hope you're doing well.
Hello to my friends across Europe and particularly in the Netherlands.
We're going to talk about you today.
Love the Netherlands.
Spent a little while in Amsterdam a couple of years ago when I gave one of the biggest speeches I ever gave as a public speaker at a tech conference and just a wonderful place, wonderful people.
And we're going to talk about the big challenge, the number one issue in Europe at the moment, which is immigration, particularly, of course, third world immigration into Europe.
The facts are actually available.
Now, I am an empirical philosopher, which means I start from the facts.
And the facts are all available, but are generally not talked about.
We've tried to gather them here together in one place so that you can understand the big picture of what the Netherlands and, of course, Europe as a whole is facing at the moment.
It doesn't mean that we make wise decisions when we're in possession of the facts, but we sure as hell can't make wise decisions if we're not in possession of the facts as well.
So that's, of course, the goal I'm going to try and achieve with you here today.
And the sources to all of this will be below if you want to check where the data comes from.
So immigration is a big deal.
It was a big deal in Brexit.
It was a big deal for Trump's nomination and eventual election.
And immigration in the Netherlands, a very, very brief history, it kind of went through three big waves.
So from the sort of the mid-1940s to the 1970s, groups of immigrants came from what were the former Dutch colonies, Indonesia, Malacca, Suriname, and the Antilles.
And then in the 1960s and 1970s, I think?
And of course, most recently, there have been asylum seekers and other forms of migrants who have entered into the landscape, the social and moral and political and cultural landscape within the Netherlands.
So we're going to have a look at some of the effects of that, and we're going to be very frank about the data.
Now, March 15th, 2017, coming up sooner than you think, the Netherlands decides its future when it holds its parliamentary elections.
So, big picture.
This is as of 2016.
Most of this data is as recent as we could possibly find.
So, almost 17 million people in the Netherlands.
And of those who have Dutch background, 13.2 million.
And of those who have foreign background, it's a little over 3.7 million.
So that's a lot when you think about it.
That is over 28% of the population in the Netherlands is from a foreign background.
So, the foreign population by country, who is in the Netherlands?
Well, just under 400,000, the largest group, is from Turkey.
Morocco, 385,000 and change.
Indonesia, 367,000.
Germany, 360,000 and not sure what the origin of the people who came from Germany is, whether they're native Germans, white Germans or not.
Suriname, 349,000.
The former Netherlands, 151,000.
Just under Poland, just under 150,000.
Belgium, 116,000 and change.
United Kingdom, 84.4,000.
And the former Yugoslavia, 84.2,000.
So that is who is in the Netherlands who has come from a foreign country.
The asylum requests, very high, actually even higher in the mid-90s than more recently.
You can see they're cooking around 40,000 in 1990, went up to over 100,000 back down, and then from sort of 2002 to 2012, relatively low at around 20,000, exploded in 2015 and 2016, have dipped back down.
Again, but that is pretty huge.
So in 2015, there were just over 100,000 asylum requests.
The number has decreased to 50,000 in 2016.
Who are the fastest growing foreign populations with a migrant background?
Well, just over 29,000.
Syria, Poland.
8,800 Morocco, 5,400 former Soviet Union, 4,400 India, 4,100 Eritrea, 3,500 Ethiopia, 3,200 Turkey, 3,100 Iraq, 2,400 The Syrian population has relatively exploded,
more than four-fold since 2009, clocking in at just under 10,000 in 2009, and as of 2016, 43,838.
Now, it's a challenge, of course, when it comes to criminality.
If groups act the same, then judging them differently is bigotry.
If groups don't act the same, that needs to be taken into account when evaluating those groups.
So let's look at the proportion of crime suspects by background.
This is as of 2015, the latest data that we could find.
So the Dutch as a whole...
The Dutch origin people, proportion of crime suspects, 0.8%, so less than 1%.
In the West, it's 1.2%, Western people.
Now, so non-Western people are clocking in at 3.2%, right?
So three and a half times the Dutch.
The Turkish people are clocking in at 2.5%.
The Surinamese at 3.4%, Moroccan 4.6%, and the Antillean at 5.1%.
So this is really important, and the perception that people have that there's higher levels of criminality within certain communities is borne out by the data.
And it's important to look at the context as well, because this is overall, if we look at particular groups, young males in particular, So individuals with Moroccan or Antillian backgrounds are almost six times more likely to be suspected of a crime than native Dutch people.
But here's where it gets really shocking.
So let's look at Moroccan immigrants into the Netherlands between the ages of 12 and 24.
In that group, Moroccan immigrants, not just males, Moroccan immigrants as a whole, between the ages of 12 and 24, 40% of them have been arrested or fined or charged or otherwise accused of committing a crime during the past five years.
And this is the result of a report that was commissioned by the Dutch Ministry of the Interior.
Between the ages of 12 and 24, 40% of the Moroccan immigrants Have been arrested, fined, charged, or otherwise accused of committing a crime.
And this is shocking.
And more and more young women are getting involved in criminality in these communities as well.
So if you look at Dutch neighborhoods wherein the majority of the residents are Moroccan immigrants, the youth crime rate reaches 50% in places.
Um...
Most of the Moroccan youth who are involved in criminal activities were in fact born in Holland, right?
This is the great challenge.
We're going to get to this when it comes to multi-generational escalations in criminal activities.
The idea, of course, well, you know, they have a different culture.
It's time for them to adjust.
It's challenging for them to adjust.
They've not been exposed to Dutch values and so on.
Well, of course, if you're born...
In Holland, then you are part of the Dutch community.
You go to school in Holland.
You go to school with native Dutch people.
And the idea, of course, is that there's an acculturation that occurs.
An adjustment to your host country.
You know, if I go to dinner in Japan, I'm going to sit on the floor and eventually my kids will just view that as natural.
But that's not what's happening.
And this is something that we really need to stop and stop.
Take stock of as a society, as Western societies as a whole, that the idea or the goal, increasingly it seems the utopian fantasy of seamless integration and the values and benefits of diversity are failing to materialize, and in fact things are getting worse, in many cases generation over generation.
So most of the Moroccan youth who've been implicated in criminal activities were actually born in In Holland.
So you can't get more acclimatization or integration potential than that.
Born in the country, part of the society, goes to school in the school system, set up by the government, rubbing neck and shoulders with native Dutch people.
It's not.
Working.
And it's really doing the opposite of working.
And these are difficult facts to process.
I understand that.
But we have to deal with facts if we are going to make any kind of better decisions as a society.
The proportion of crime suspects by generation.
So this is first generation and second generation.
A reminder, the Dutch native population clocks in at 0.8% proportion of crime suspects.
So among Westerners, there's very little difference, very little change between the first and second generation.
1.15% versus 1.16%.
And sorry for reading out all these numbers, but remember, at least half my listeners listen only to the audio, so I need to paint a portrait.
Now, among non-Western crime suspects in Holland, the first generation, 2.41%.
Second generation, 4.54%.
Almost a doubling.
Now, among the Turks in Holland, first generation, 1.7%, proportion of crime suspects.
Second generation, 3.62%.
Among the Surinamese...
2.72% first generation, 4.41% second generation among the Moroccans.
This is what got Geert into some trouble for proposing a political policy option.
First generation, 2.52%.
Second generation, 7.36%.
From 2.5 to an almost tripling 7.36.
That's second generation born in Holland.
Antillians declined slightly.
But again, way higher than the native Dutch population, from 5.34% to 4.53%, and other 2.04% to 2.99%, all significantly higher than the 0.8% of Dutch natives, and going in the entirely wrong direction.
what is the third generation going to look like?
Now, it's possible, I put this out as conjecture, and please let me know in the comments below if you've had any more experience with this, it's possible to make the case that these numbers are artificially low.
So, for instance, some of the police forces in Europe have pressure put upon them to keep the rates of migrant or immigrant crime lower than they are, so they may let them off with warnings, they may give them fines rather than truly criminal charges and so on.
And, at least as of 2011, there were 40 reported no-go zones in Holland.
In other words, places which are no longer Holland.
And if the police are hesitant to go into these zones and hesitant to make arrests, then the criminal activity that is occurring within these no-go zones is not being recorded or reported in any accurate form whatsoever.
So it's possible that these numbers are actually much higher than what is reported, although the numbers that we see here are shocking.
You can vote, and you can choose what is going to happen to your country.
But you're going to age, you're going to get old, and you're going to die, and you're going to leave a country to your children.
Looking at these numbers, looking at the direction that these numbers are going, What kind of country do you want to leave to your children?
Do you want to leave to your children a country that is at least as good as the country that your forefathers left to you?
What is the responsible thing to do?
We borrow our culture, our structure, our society, our civilization is borrowed from our children.
The prison population in the Netherlands.
Native Dutch 36.4%.
Western immigrants, 17.7%.
Non-Western immigrants, 44.5%.
Now remember, a much smaller proportion of the population, so per capita this is much, much higher.
Unknown 1.4%.
And here's the challenge as well, is that some of the non-Western immigrants, when they go into prison, become further radicalized by people already in the prison and therefore recidivism may not be as low as people might like.
So Who is in prison?
In the Netherlands, the non-Western prison population.
Likelihood compared to the native Dutch population.
This is times more likely to be in prison than the native Dutch population.
And remember, These are groups that consume an enormous amount of welfare, consume an enormous amount of social resources in terms of healthcare resources.
We'll get to that in a few minutes.
And, of course, they consume a lot of resources when it comes to the education of their children.
Multi-language, multi-culture, and so on.
These are all great drains.
And police and courts and prisons and so on.
It is incredibly expensive for the native Dutch population.
That matters.
That matters.
Because native Dutch population may say, well, I don't know if we can afford to have children, or more than one or two.
So foreigners as a whole are six times more likely to be in prison than the native Dutch population.
The Antillians are 20 times more likely to be in prison.
Moroccans 10.2 times, Surinamese 9.7 times, and Turkish 4.3 times.
You have choices.
Nothing is inevitable.
Unemployment by background.
Dutch are clocking in at 6%, Westerners as a whole 9%, non-Westerners are at 15% unemployment, Turkish 14%, Surinamese 15%, Moroccan 18%, and Antillean 17%.
So in 2015, a person with a non-Western background had triple the rate of unemployment than a native Dutch, and 50% more likely than someone with a background from the new EU member states to be unemployed.
22% of the 15 to 25-year-olds with a non-Western background are unemployed.
And that's only 9% of the young people who are native to Holland.
And now since 2008, unemployment among non-Western youths has increased significantly faster than among young Dutch people.
So again, wrong direction, widening gap.
And how is it going intergenerationally?
Where is this integration that has been promised?
Where is it occurring?
Because that is the promise.
Live side by side, enrich values, and certainly obedience to the law.
Why would you want to bring in people to your country who significant portions of whom are not going to obey the law?
How is that of benefit?
It's okay!
It's okay!
Oh Europeans, it is okay.
In fact, it's good.
In fact, it may in fact be necessary to say to your government, what's in it for us?
Sell us on the benefit because the numbers don't seem to indicate it very clearly.
First generation, second generation.
Well, the Westerners...
Improve.
10% down to 8%.
Non-Westerners do not improve.
First-generation unemployment, 14%.
Second-generation unemployment, 17%.
We await the third with bated breath.
Turkish unemployment, first generation, 11%.
Second generation, 18%.
Surinamese go from 13% to 16%.
Moroccans go from 16% to 22%.
Unemployment, first to second generation, Antillian, 18% to 15%.
And others go from 15% to 12%.
All significantly higher than the native population and all but one specific category going in entirely the wrong direction.
Where does this stop?
Hope is not a strategy.
Facts allow us to make wise decisions.
Welfare benefits.
See, this is one reason why people think the welfare state is a good idea and sustainable.
Among the Dutch, from 15 years to retirement age, only 2%.
Take welfare.
Westernness as a whole, 4%.
It's sustainable by the bulk of taxpayers.
Non-Westernness, 14%.
Seven times that of the native Dutch population.
The Turkish are at 10%, the Surinamese at 10%, the Moroccans at 15%, and then the Antillians at 13%.
In 2015, even more than half of all the people with a Somali background received social welfare.
Unsustainable.
Unsustainable.
And what's going to happen when the money runs out?
Now, there is sympathy.
I feel it.
You feel it.
There is sympathy for the victims of destabilizing wars and civil wars in the Middle East.
So it'd be great, it'd be great if the West stopped attacking and bombing Middle Eastern and Muslim countries.
Please, let's get that done.
As a strategy going forward, but the invade everyone, invite everyone does not work.
It does not work.
Now, for the people who are fleeing civil conflicts in Syria or in Libya or other destabilizing situations, how can they be helped?
This is from the United States.
I could not find good data for Europe, but the principle, I'm sure, applies equally.
If you wish...
To help an individual resettle in the Middle East where they have similar religions, they have similar cultures, similar climates, similar political structures, similar languages.
Where they're more at home and have a much greater chance to succeed.
This is the great horror of this entire situation.
Is the migrants and the immigrants and the refugees coming to Europe in general are not succeeding.
Not succeeding.
Setting themselves up for failure, setting themselves up for frustration.
And setting the general population up for frustration and alienation and hostility.
It is not kind.
Now, if you have a certain amount of money, and all human desires are infinite, all human resources are finite, if you have a certain amount of money to help people who are fleeing destabilized countries, well, for the price of helping one individual You can help 13 individuals resettle.
So the price of getting one person to the West, getting one person to America, you can help 13 people resettle in the Middle East for the same amount of money.
You understand?
So, to get one refugee settled over five years...
In America from the Middle East costs $64,370.
Resettling that person in the Middle East costs only $5,285.
You understand this?
12 to 13 times more people can be helped by resettling them in the Middle East than bringing them to America.
For a household, the five-year cost Of resettling a Middle Eastern refugee household in the United States is a little over a quarter of a million dollars.
$257,481.
To resettle that household in the Middle East costs only $21,140.
This is not about being cheap.
This is about helping more people with the same amount of money.
There's a budget, there's a cap, there's only so much money to go around.
Wouldn't you rather help 12 to 13 times more people?
And put them in an environment where they have a chance to succeed and an incentive to return home when the wars, the civil wars, the destabilizing events stop.
If you really want to help people, if you really want to help people, Both in Holland and the refugees and people in the Middle East help them resettle in the Middle East where they have a chance to succeed and flourish and have families and are in a sustainable situation because all of this spending money on all this stuff there's no money Holland doesn't have the money it's going further and further into debt so you're setting people up in an unstable situation that can't possibly continue ad infinitum mathematically
that which cannot continue will not continue You're setting them up for failure and asking them to adapt to an environment that can't sustain itself.
This is not kindness.
This is not charity.
This is not compassion.
This is like some weird pathological altruism.
Because look at the Netherlands.
Look at this government debt in billions of euros.
Since 1999, more than doubled.
More than doubled.
How is this sustainable?
413 billion euros.
The expenses are astonishing.
Healthcare, right?
Across Europe.
And this happened in the Netherlands, there's outbreaks of scabies.
Across Europe, scabies, measles, cholera, tuberculosis, typhoid fever, which have not shown up if they ever did in the healthcare system for generations.
You have dental problems.
You have physical health problems.
You have mental health problems.
Refugees are 15 times more likely to have PTSD compared with the general adult population in high-income countries.
Afghan refugees in high-income countries, 25 to 50% PTSD. The expense of it is horrifying.
And part of the PTSD is acclimatizing to an entirely foreign alien culture.
It's as alien to them as Saudi Arabia is to you.
Wouldn't it be kind of stressful for you to go and live in Saudi Arabia and try and adapt?
It's not sustainable.
You're not helping people.
What are you avoiding being called?
Racist?
They're not racist.
They're countries.
This is the government debt.
It's over 444 billion euros.
The interest per year, almost 11 billion euros.
Now the debt per citizen works out to 26,277 euros.
Now the Dutch background average income per citizen is 26.6 thousand.
It's significantly lower for non-Dutch people.
This doesn't even include unfunded liabilities and so on.
So the debt per citizen is almost as high as the average income for people from a Dutch background.
You see, it's unsustainable.
You are not helping people.
You are virtue signaling, as the phrase goes.
You're showing to everyone what a great person you are, how compassionate you are.
No, actually care about the people, help them resettle in the Middle East, where you can help far more people, far more close to their culture and their language and their religion, in an area where they can succeed, and so they're close to returning home.
That's how you help people.
Not to mention the fact that the criminality that is inflicted upon the native Dutch population That blood is on your hands if you support these programs.
That blood is on your hands.
So, we need to work with the facts.
And the facts are not pleasant.
It is never fun when a promised utopia fails to materialize and in fact you get a kind of dystopia that results.
It's not fun.
But it's okay.
We'll survive.
We need to look at the facts.
Non-Dutch immigration, particularly from the third world, it's kind of an unholy bargain, and everybody knows this, and nobody really talks about it, but it's basically clear.
The socialists and the people on the left like bringing in third world immigrants because third world immigrants will vote for people on the left.
And so basically, the people on the left are taking money through the power of the state, through force.
They're taking money from the native population, and they're buying the votes of immigrants by handing it over to immigrants.
By and large, lots of exceptions, but that's a general trend.
That's very corrupt.
It is not the mark of an enlightened democratic system to invite people in who are going to vote for you because you give them money.
Come on.
Come on.
That is not how things should be running.
We all know that.
Make a case.
Make an argument.
Don't put your finger on the scale.
And this is not just Holland, of course.
This is going on across Europe.
Paris has been in flames for days.
Cars burning.
People blowing up.
You have a right to a country that works for your benefit.
You have the right to say no.
You have the right to say, wait, wait, wait.
Come on.
Come on.
The data is clear.
This is not working.
We need to change course.
You have the right to do that.
You have the right to say, does this work to my benefit and to my children's benefit?
Because you're responsible for handing the freedoms and the security and the financial stability that you inherited from your forefathers and foremothers.
You are responsible for handing that to your children.
You do not own the country.
You merely have custody of the country.
It's in trust to you.
And you must hand the country you inherited to your children.
Not something completely different.
Not something dangerous.
Not something destabilized.
Not something with potential eruptions of violence when the money runs out.
You don't have the right to do that.
You understand that, right?
This is not your country.
It's your country like the environment is yours.
We borrow the environment from our children, as the old environmentalist saying goes, which I agree with.
We also borrow our system, our culture, our freedoms, our security from our children.
We cannot fail them.
Well, technically we can.
But it would be hideous to do so.
So, it is important to figure out why all of this is happening.
There are answers.
We've had experts on this show.
We'll put links to them below.
There are answers.
But first, we need to start dealing with the facts.
And remember, remember, putting your head in the sand, crossing your fingers, turning away from information, screaming epithets at people, getting angry, throwing things, breaking things, getting mad at reality.
Those are the actions of crazy people.
Now, if that's where Europe is, well, that's where Europe is.
But I don't think that's where Europe is, fundamentally.
We need to deal with reality and we need to make wiser and better decisions about how truly to help people, our own citizens, immigrants, refugees, and in particular, the future, our children, where they're going to live, how they're going to live, under what system they're going to live.
Remember, hope is not a strategy.
Pathological altruism is not a strategy.
Virtue signaling is not a strategy.
Avoiding being called negative words is not a strategy.
What is a strategy?
Knowledge.
Facts.
Information.
That gives you the basis for making a better decision.
