Jan. 29, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
02:36:13
3575 ANTI-MILO RIOTS - Call In Show - January 25th, 2017
Question 1: [2:24] – Two different firsthand accounts of the violent protests outside Milo Yiannopoulos’s recent University of Washington speech – including the aftermath of the shooting and the experience of what nearly turned into a violent riot. Question 2: [51:17] – "If no other appeal to the child for obedience is functional, and the threat to the child is the child's certain death or severe harm, then would you find spanking justifiable in order to prevent such an event from occurring?"Question 3: [1:18:59] – “Recently, I saw a video where Stefan was denying the existence of ‘inalienable human rights’ based on they justify force or government coercion to come to fruition. This was the core problem with the conversation all the way through the talk. A ‘right’ as defined by the founders and recognized in the 'bill of rights' is that in which you can express by yourself in a free market. for example, freedom of speech is an inalienable right, because you don't need to use force or exploit anyone by exercising it. same with the right to self-preservation, you don't need to exploit anyone else to defend yourself in a free market, please tell me why I and the founders are wrong in the definition of inalienable rights?“Question 4: [1:39:37] – “I have always held the belief that morality is primarily objective without differing much from person to person. This belief has carried me so far in my brief adult life but it seemed sound up until recently. The kidnapping and torturing of the mentally disabled white boy in Chicago has made me very concerned about the influence and interpretation of morality on each person. Is morality objective, and if not, what kind of outside factors are powerful enough to change one's moral compass to where kidnapping/torturing is okay, or the acceptance of this as just 'kids being kids' is okay?”Question 5: [2:01:11] – “I find that many of your beliefs are in line with Biblical truths (e.g. marriage, gender roles, rationality, social injustice, etc). You even accept that religion gives people a sense of purpose and are sympathetic to Christians. Why are you not a believer in Christ yourself?”Question 6: [2:16:18] – I’m a relatively new listener, and over the last couple months I’ve heard you make what sound like disparaging remarks about stepping into a relationship with a woman who already has children, or raising another man’s children. However, I’ve also never heard you say to never do that. Since you often ask people ‘Why didn’t you call me sooner?’ I’m asking now.”Freedomain Radio is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by signing up for a monthly subscription or making a one time donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
It was a man and a woman who were at the recent event that Milo Yiannopoulos was speaking at where there were violent people attacking the crowd.
There was a shooting and they reported what they saw and we talked about what it means with regards to political discourse and basic human safety for free speech in America.
Now, the second caller wanted to have a conversation about spanking.
Was there ever a time where spanking could be considered justified in a parenting scenario?
A bit of an odd conversation, but I think it speaks to why spanking is not a good idea when you hear his responses to my pushback on his hypotheses.
I think it's very, very illustrative and instructive.
The third caller took issue with my skepticism towards the concept of human rights, or at least how much the word rights has been co-opted to mean things I want that the government must get for me.
And we had a good conversation about that where we agreed and whether you can rescue language from those opposed to your perspective.
Now, the fourth caller was really upset about the recent kidnapping of the mentally challenged young white man by the black group of men and women and his torture and so on.
And we talked about that in relation to objective morality.
What could go wrong in people's lives where they feel this is a good idea or a good plan to follow?
Now, the next caller wanted to know why I don't believe in Jesus Christ.
I seem to follow many of his teachings, and it was my origin story, my backstory.
And why don't I believe?
And we had a conversation about philosophy and helplessness in the face of reason and evidence.
And the sixth caller, well, let's keep it brief.
He got dumped by a single mom.
And we tried to figure out why, why, why.
So please, please enjoy the show.
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Without further ado, here we go.
Alright, well up for us today we have El and Sam.
Now, they don't know each other, but they both tried to attend Milo's recent speech at the University of Washington, which erupted into protests and violence.
Rocks being thrown at people, paint being thrown on people, gang beatdowns as riot cops watched on.
It was a pretty crazy scene.
So, welcome to the show, El and Sam.
Hey guys, how are you doing tonight?
Doing well, can you hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you fine.
So, give me the lowdown.
Give me the story.
What was going on?
Well, I arrived earlier a little around 5 o'clock and, you know, there's a student line and a non-student line and it was actually really peaceful.
Everybody was in line, was laughing and having a good time.
I actually ended up playing video games with one of the kids in line that ended up bringing his laptop and You know, people were talking about, you know, different politics and how they each found Milo and it was pretty calm until Antifa and the Black Lives Matter crew showed up and it got insane from there.
You know, I'm six foot tall and a Martial I do martial arts.
I wasn't particularly scared of things but when bricks start flying through the air it gets gets pretty insane Not a lot of judo can help you with that right right and What was crazy for for me was that like during the experience when there was you know what seemed like three three rows deep of people Covering their face with masks and,
you know, screaming, calling me a Nazi and all the other fun words that people that attend Milo shows get called.
For me, it was more of a like, well, fuck you.
If you're going to attack me, I can defend myself.
I'm not going to be intimidated by you.
And it only was until later that I fully grasped that, like, you know, somebody could have come up behind me and hit me with a brick.
You know, there were people with signs made out of axe handles that they then taped their cardboard sign to.
So if things got...
You know, that's...
I don't know, that's pretty scary if you ask me.
Like, okay, an axe handle can move fast, and it's hardened in wood, and again, it doesn't take much to really start doing some damage.
Well, and the left is kind of into this sucker punch shit, right?
I mean, they don't tap you on the shoulder and say, alright, let's go!
They're like, boom!
Out of nowhere.
Sucker punch.
With all due respect to Elle, girly shots.
Sorry, go ahead.
And it was this cry-bully bullshit of just, you know, run up and, I mean, there's a few people that came through the line where I was at and pushed and shoved and knocked hats off, and if you tried to retaliate, they would run away and Call you all sorts of names.
And it's like, well, what?
You guys just fucking attacked me.
Like, you come and assault me and then claim that I'm somehow the aggressor?
Like, it was...
I kept...
Sorry for not having better words for it, but it was crazy.
It was just, like, the definition of insanity where I'm...
I felt strange because when...
Because I felt like I was going to be put into a situation where I was going to need to defend myself...
And then when I do, that everyone is going to take the other person's side.
Like, oh, whoever came up and punched you, yeah, and you retaliated, but you could have retaliated in a different way, or you could have been nicer about it.
And I was about 30 feet away from the shooting when it happened, and I know there's a lot of conflicting reports out there as to, you know, what's going...
Who was who and what was going on before the shooting, but there was real violence.
The kid that got paint smashed on his head and his face bloodied, I saw him five feet from me at different times.
I backed off once he got people around him and once cameras got in his face and he was doing his own thing and it seemed like he was okay, but There's no doubt in my mind that the shooter was acting in self-defense.
Right.
Now, did you see the race of the shooter and the victim?
I've read some stuff, but I wanted to know if you had eyes on the ground views.
It happened behind me at the time.
I heard this pop.
I think it was a low caliber round, like a 22, but I'm not certain.
Again, it was behind me and there's a lot of other stuff going on.
I know that from what I've read that the shooter was male and he was protecting his wife and that's everything that lines up with what I heard people around me talking.
I mean, I heard this pop.
I look around and I see somebody getting drug away.
I see a little bit of smoke and a woman Acting hysterically, like genuinely hysterical, and her husband consoling her saying, I got you.
I got him or I got you.
And it was at that point that I kind of pieced together that somebody just got shot.
So it was pretty crazy.
Now, did you end up getting inside?
I did not.
Very, very few people got inside.
Almost as soon as the doors opened, there was...
That's when the Antifa crowd came and barricaded the front.
So there was the riot police and then about three or four rows deep of this crowd that barricaded everybody in and I mean, kudos to the guys that were running the event.
They were trying to keep everything calm.
You say like, okay, you can't push through these guys because then you push them into the police.
And once the police start getting pushed around, they'll shut down the event.
So we were...
We had our hands tied a lot of just while being in the crowd, not being able to push back, not being able to really, really do anything.
Because if you tried to push through, you would get attacked like several people did.
And Or you would push them into the cops, and then the cops would then threaten to shut down the whole event.
I find this somewhat confusing.
Not from, you know, eight years of Obama or whatever.
I find this confusing because it doesn't seem overly complicated to me.
Which is, if people are blocking the entrance, you tell them to move.
If they don't move, you arrest them.
And you remove them.
I mean, I don't know how this shit escalates to this degree.
People start throwing rocks, you just go and arrest people.
Because that's the initiation of the use of force.
As is blocking the entrance.
I mean, what the hell is the point of having the comps there if they're not putting assholes in handcuffs?
Am I missing something?
Um, no.
Okay, go, sorry.
I've talked a lot.
That's one of the things I noticed that I was really surprised about.
They were throwing bricks for a few minutes, probably, and I didn't see a single one of them get arrested.
Why?
I don't know.
I mean, what am I missing here?
I mean, try doing that at the Parliament or Congress.
Try going and throw some bricks at people and see how long you last, right?
I don't, like, are they told to stand down?
Are they told to, well, you know, the Republicans are easy targets and, you know, I mean, I just don't fundamentally understand it.
I mean, they're breaking the law.
They are assaulting people.
They are blocking the entrance, which is another form of assault.
I just don't understand.
Arrest them.
Again, am I missing anything obvious?
They were really outnumbered.
Who?
The police.
And I think, I mean, I guess it's possible that they were worried about attacks from them.
But that's their job.
I mean, I'm sorry.
It's like the fireman saying, well, you know, that fire looks pretty hot.
Don't think I, I mean, that could be kind of risky.
It's like, I'm sorry, man, that's the job.
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
I mean, you don't want the EMT fainting.
Oh, blood!
Fainting.
I mean, sorry, this is the job.
I mean, you have to arrest assholes if you're a policeman.
That's what you're paid for.
That's the whole job.
That's the whole gig.
Right.
Yeah, and it was really frustrating being attacked by them and the police standing there and watching.
I don't...
I mean, do they think...
Yeah, and if you're a cop, you know, I know Mike Cernovich has talked about the people, the cops have had stand-down orders.
Boy, I hope they find that stuff, if that is the case.
I hope they find whoever told the cops to stand down, and I hope that person faces an entire planet-and-a-half world of hurt, because that is truly astonishing.
A peaceful gathering of people who wish to share ideas and be entertained.
And they're getting bricks thrown at them.
And, you know, there's axe handles.
There are people out there.
I mean, I know that to have the flag as the base, like you have to have a cardboard rather than a wooden thing because I guess it could be used as a weapon, but that's the whole job.
And if they're not doing it, So, I mean, that's just unbelievably wretched and enabling.
And, of course, it's why this stuff happens.
I mean, if it's like, oh, the other thing, too, as far as I understand it, in certain places, particularly in Washington, you're not allowed to roam around the street with your face covered up.
And when all of these guys, for the inauguration and so on, are roaming down the street with their face covered up, why aren't they just arrested?
Like, I don't...
Again, maybe I'm missing something.
Maybe it's a whole Ferguson effect thing.
I don't know.
But, man.
That was one of the things that I was just having a, like, when I ended up, after things started getting violent, quite a few people started to leave, which makes sense.
But the ones that stayed in the crowd, I noticed were quite a few military folk, and I ended up hanging out with them for a while, and then going out and getting drinks afterwards just to kind of Talk things through, because again, when things get really crazy, it was just, wait, did you guys see what I saw?
And the simple fact that the protesters were covering their face means that they are not wanting to be identified.
And, like, outside of a, you know, Make America Great Again hat, there was no one in line to see Milo that I was covering their face up.
I talked with amazing, amazing people that were leather workers and different tradesmen talking about how well they're raising their kids.
I ended up having some really good conversations until people in mass screaming at us and calling us Nazis showed up.
That's so mind-boggling to me.
How the How the fuck do you...
How do you call yourself good when you know that by the simple fact that you're covering up your face means that you don't want to be identified?
I mean...
Oh yeah, like try roaming into a bank with a full-on hoodie.
You know, they'll say, look, it's really not that hot in here, and you sure as hell don't have to worry about rain, so perhaps you'd like to take your hoodie down, because otherwise it just kind of looks like you're avoiding our security cams.
Right.
And so, like, I mean, I've...
Seen me in the background of various various photos and things and I don't I don't care that people saw me there I'm proud that I was there it was a lot of fun until you know the asshole showed up but the fact that they're like they're covering their face and you know linking arms and attacking it's like in what way do you justify that this is acceptable that this is okay and in what way are you the are you the good guy because I don't I mean,
I don't think people go to these protests thinking that they're about to commit evil acts.
Maybe I'm just naive, but...
No, they do.
Yeah, I think some of them do.
Sorry, sorry, Al, you were gonna say?
I think that's one of the really scary things for me, to see all these people who live in my city and go to the college down my street doing these horrible things.
They have no empathy for people or ability to see how, you know, throwing bricks could hurt people.
I don't know if they truly understand, like, I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like they actually, they believe that they are somehow in the right in these situations.
Well, I mean, first of all, the fact that they call people Nazis while using violence to suppress their political speech, that's kind of what Nazis did.
You know, I mean, it's just ridiculous.
I mean, the whole idea that violence is justified if you disagree with people, I mean, that's the complete opposite of civilization.
Free speech is, it's not just a value, free speech is the value.
Free speech is everything, because it's the only way we have to correct idiots and assholes who are doing bad things and saying bad arguments.
You have to have free speech, and it's not a conditional thing, and it's not a well unless they're really offensive.
Free speech, of course, is designed to protect The people whose opinions you find the absolute most hideous that you could possibly imagine.
And it's not, I mean, it's not there to protect your friends.
It's there to protect your enemies from you so that you are then further protected from your enemies using it back against you.
So, yeah, they had, you know, they showed up with baseball bats.
They showed up with sharpened signposts.
They had bricks and wooden poles, heavy pipes.
Yeah, they came to break people's bodies.
That was, I mean, a lot of them, that was the plan.
I was reading another article because after this I did a decent amount of decompressing with my fiancee just as far as Staying home, but I then started looking at the articles once they started coming out and There was a local park that I'm forgetting which organization it was but basically the police confiscated like actual weapons that people were bringing pipes and They were going to take weapons to this event to do harm
like and It seems to me like the leftists and the...
I don't want to say provocateurs because that's how Milo identifies himself and I think a lot of what he does is noble.
But these people that are trying to incite violence, it's like they're wanting us to attack.
Wanting to attack so then we can counterattack.
They could film the counterattack and say...
We need to defend ourselves from these hateful, awful people.
Look how bad they are.
We told you they were this bad.
And now here's the proof.
Yeah, I think you're right.
That kid who got attacked by the Antifa, he was just wearing a Trump hat.
He might have said something to them.
I'm not exactly sure because I didn't see.
But he walked up to them wearing a Trump hat and got beat up by about eight of them.
Yeah, the hard part about that, watching that, was the kid's dad was just 20 feet behind him.
And his dad was freaking out, as I think any good father would, when watching their son get beat up by eight people.
He was freaking out.
That was the heartbreaking thing and the horrifying thing, which Which set me on edge, for sure, is this guy's, you know, you can hear his heart wrenching as he's trying to say, like, these people just beat the crap out of my son.
And you don't know where that's gonna stop.
And with this kind of swarming, and again, this cowardly eight-on-one, some kid, right?
But you don't know why someone can slip, someone could miss, you know, there could be a punch to the throat.
I mean, you could crack, you could break someone's windpipe.
You might heal their nose and push their cartilage into their brain.
I mean, you don't know.
You don't know where the hell this stuff's gonna end.
I mean, I've done martial arts for several years, and the thing I try and explain to people is like, all right, cool, you know what you're doing in these situations.
But really, any person can walk up and punch you in the face, and if you're not expecting it, your neck can be broken and die.
And it doesn't matter if they're 16 and joking around.
It could be anyone, any situation, your muscles are relaxed at the right time, and boom.
And that's...
Obviously, in a riot situation, I don't think it's...
You know, exaggerating that word to say that this was close to a riot situation, at least, is like, all right, let's, you know, those eight people attacking one person, you see this over, you know, three or four times, and then, you know, this man sees these people coming after his wife and ends up shooting, like, and shoots them in self-defense of his wife.
I know if I was in the same situation, I would do the same.
And it's frustrating to then see people like, oh, well, that was a complete overreaction.
No, it wasn't.
It was not an overreaction.
Like, that was the next step in this escalation that was keep getting driven and driven and driven.
Right.
Now, Elle, did you want to add anything?
I wanted to ask a question, if that's okay.
I guess that's a yes.
Go ahead.
Okay.
What can we do to stop this?
I'm sure that's a pretty open-ended question, but I wrote about this in my email.
I just felt completely helpless.
The police didn't care That the door is being blocked to a giant building, which was a fire hazard, if nothing else.
They didn't care that we were being attacked.
And I don't know, I feel helpless and I'm not exactly sure what to do.
Well, I mean, as far as in the moment, what can you do?
I mean, there's nothing, I don't know, I mean, there's nothing you can do in the moment.
It's the cop's job, right?
Yeah.
And if they're not willing to do this, then I don't know.
I mean, it's too late in a sense to try and do something then, right?
So this question of what we do in the long run, of course we condemn this.
And my condemnation is not even so much towards these individual actors.
It's bad enough.
We're throwing bricks.
I mean, it's horrible, horrible stuff.
But on the left, there doesn't seem to be any, any, any introspection as to what is driving this.
Any like, well, gosh, what are we saying?
What are we doing?
How is this manifesting?
This is my big issue.
It's not with the isolated assholes who are doing this kind of stuff.
I mean, there are...
Assholes everywhere, and they're going to do this kind of stuff.
My question is, why the hell isn't the left saying, holy shit, the people who claim to represent our team are throwing bricks.
They're showing up with sharpened implements, axe handles.
They're beating people up.
There was a gunshot outside an event.
They're blocking people.
They're throwing paint.
They're beating up kids.
What have we done that has gotten us to this place?
That should be what the media is asking.
That should be what the academics are asking.
That should be what everyone who posts these kinds of inflammatory escalations.
They're Nazis.
He's literally Hitler.
You've all contributed to this.
You've all put your stick on the fire that burns the world.
Everyone who escalates and escalates and escalates.
And who has not consistently said the solution must be peaceful until there's no other option.
There are still other options.
So my concern is that the people on the left, and there are some exceptions, and I accept all of that.
This is a very general statement.
But the people on the left, they should have a holy shit moment.
This is what we've come to.
This wild demonization of our opponents.
This wild race baiting.
This gender baiting.
This class baiting.
This setting people against people and escalating every goddamn syllable.
Until crazy people are hysterical.
You know the voices that people are hearing in their heads telling them to hurt people?
They're coming from the left.
They're not coming from the right.
They will.
If the left doesn't find a way to rein in its crazy people.
But the left has to sit there and say, damn, what have we done?
And the left has to sit there and say, okay, where do these people get their money from?
Where are they getting their support from?
What is driving them?
What is moving them?
What is allowing them and enabling them and encouraging them to feel that they can get away with all this kind of stuff?
The left is not doing that.
And people have a tough time understanding this distinction.
Yes, the individual actors, yeah, they should be arrested, they should be thrown in jail if they're found guilty.
I mean, absolutely.
Because the initiation of force would happen in a perfectly free society as well if you did this.
My question, my issue, is where the hell is everyone else on the left?
Where the hell?
If Republicans were out doing this, I guarantee you the Republican Party would be sitting there going, whoa, whoa, whoa, how did we end up here?
How did we end up where our supporters are out there beating the hell out of everyone?
And until the left starts doing that, and I'll tell you, I'm not expecting them to start anytime soon, but until the left starts doing that, it's going to continue to escalate, and all we can do at the moment, I think, Well, be prepared.
Be safe.
But just keep pointing it out.
Where is the condemnation of the left?
And I don't just mean, well, you know, things went too far, or, you know, kids will be kids, and we don't agree with that, but they have legitimate complaints, right?
Be referred to as protesters.
They're not protesters.
They're not protesters.
Until the left really takes this on in a very practical and tangible way.
Find the source.
Of the income, find the source, who's busing these people in, who's paying them.
Of course, you know, it's not that hard to figure out.
It's not that hard.
Until they start doing that, they are complicit.
To me, aiding and abetting in general.
So that's, you know, as far as what we can do, just keep pointing out, A, that it's evil, and B, it's being enabled by the left.
But anyway, so Ellie, let's get back, because we heard from Sam.
Sorry, Elle.
Elle, let's get back to, you know, from when you arrived and, you know, take your time in what happened.
You know, for the people who weren't there, I'd like them to get a good portrait.
Okay, I think I arrived a bit after Sam.
I got there about half an hour before the doors were supposed to open.
And the first thing I noticed was that there was a wall of people standing in front of the door of the building.
There were a lot of cops, but most of them were protesters or maybe just...
I'm not sure what you would call them.
Bullies, thugs.
Thugs, fair enough.
Although politically motivated thugs, that's a T word if I remember rightly, but go on.
Yeah, terrorists is what I remember that word being, but...
A lot of them had their faces covered, which wasn't very surprising.
And around the time that the doors were supposed to open, a few hundred people got in, but it wasn't that many.
And I started to notice a lot of people, a few people, walking back into line with their face covered in blue paint after talking to the people in masks.
They had been either Uh, had paint balls thrown at them or just covered in paint.
I wasn't sure, um, And then that kid got beat up, which was really, really scary to watch because, again, I don't know.
I didn't see it very well.
I wasn't close, but it didn't look like there was any police intervention to break up the fight.
And after that, they started throwing bricks, which was around the time I started to leave because, as Sam has pointed out, there's no way you can fight against bricks.
Especially because I couldn't risk getting hurt because my parents were firmly against me going.
Sorry, are you going to say something?
No, go ahead.
Yeah, and as I left, I saw about ten fire trucks, ambulances, about five helicopters, which was, it was honestly surreal.
And it was so weird because it seemed that there were all these people, policemen, There to stop things from happening, the attacks, but they didn't do anything, as far as I could see.
And what is the feeling like, the experience of facing that kind of assault, that kind of attack?
It just didn't seem real.
It seemed like something from a nightmare.
I've lived in Seattle not that long, but I can tell you Mostly what I've seen has been very calm.
And it doesn't seem like something that would happen in Seattle or even in the United States.
Right.
And what was the reaction of the people in the lineup?
I mean, did they circle around?
I mean, what happened?
Sorry, which people?
The people who were in the lineup or waiting to get in.
I think most people were just really anxious to get inside.
Once they started throwing bricks, people started backing up, but they were just surprised, horrified.
Right.
And were you trapped?
I mean, could you not escape at that point or slip out somewhere?
I mean, at some point you must have recognized you weren't getting into the event, right?
Yeah, yeah.
At that point, that's when I left.
But I was really surprised to see a lot of people, and maybe Sam can tell you about this, a lot of people stayed after that.
I wasn't sure why.
Adventure?
Curiosity?
Excitement?
Possibly.
And how...
Sorry, go ahead, Sam.
As someone who is...
Kind of in the fray of it for a little while.
Yeah, there was definitely a certain amount of that.
I'm part of this, and it seemed like, well, if we just back down, then the next time these people are going to figure out that they can just push us around.
Again, the people that kind of stuck in that group tended to be a bit more hard-ass Military guys that were like, no, I'm not going to let these, you know, these teenagers or whoever, like, push me around.
I, you know, I heard more than one person say, like, no, I fought for your right to protest me.
How dare you?
And so there was more of a just at least my experience, man, was just this this feeling of like, no, I'm not going to let you push me around.
How dare you attack me?
And if you really want to attack, you know, we can go down that path if you want, but I don't want to, let me in.
Was there any talk of a counterattack?
Not that I heard.
It's funny that, you know, we were getting bricks thrown at us, and the only thing that I heard people saying is like, well, why don't we just walk through...
Walk through their barricade, their lineup.
They're just linking arms.
Why don't we just push through?
And that was as aggressive as what was in the crowd, like people talking.
It wasn't like, you know, let's steal some of their signs and hit them back or something.
It was just, no, let's push through, and if they attack us, then fuck those guys, and we'll just keep pushing through until we get in.
But there wasn't this, you know, there wasn't any...
Like, real aggressive, like, let's go beat the crap out of every single one of them feeling.
Right.
Did you get any sense of how the cops were viewing this whole situation?
They were really standoffish.
I mean, they told people to get off, you know, off the top part of the steps, and that was it.
So it was more of a suggestion, like, hey guys, would you mind awfully if you would just...
They pushed him, like, all right, get off, get off, get off, and that was when a lot of people in line thought, like, okay, they're actually opening up the protesters so that we can get through, and every single time the police actually did something, they were cheered by the people in the crowd.
Every person that was...
Almost everyone that I talked to was thanking the police as they rode by.
No, I mean, I really wish the police would have done more.
They basically stood around and looked intimidating, but didn't end up doing anything.
Maybe I just didn't see what they did.
No, I think it's fairly safe to say that it's not been a wildly assertive police response, in my opinion, to this stuff.
You know, oh, you know, these people are openly talking about committing violence on social media.
It's not that complicated.
You go there with a lot of cops and a lot of paddy wagons and you get ready to do your job, what the taxpayers are paying you for.
And if there's more than you think, you can call for backup.
I've seen it in movies all the time.
You got helicopters.
I think you can get a few more boots on the ground.
And the other thing too, of course, when you start this kind of stuff, you start arresting people, it prevents the escalation of violence.
If the police had done their job, it's very possible, in my opinion, it's possible that this guy might not have been shot.
And how many protesters did you see?
Well, when I got there, there were a few hundred, but at around eight, a ton more came, and obviously all the protesters cheered.
They were very excited to continue their assault on free speech.
Right.
Yeah, there was a...
The first group that was there was the Antifa group, and they were...
You know, chanting their stupid chants and stuff, and barricading, like, blocking us from entering.
And, yeah, then at around eight, that's when a large group of, I believe it was Black Lives Matter.
Yeah.
Crowd showed up behind us, and that's when, that's the only time that I started feeling nervous about the situation, is because then...
We were, then I was flanked.
You know, there's people that wanted violence on front and back of me, and the cops didn't really do anything.
And that was the only time that I started feeling, starting to feel nervous.
But yeah, it was, yeah, there was definitely several hundred.
Right.
And the number of people in the lineup to get in?
What was your estimate?
About 300, maybe a little more.
Trapped up against a building and hundreds of protesters or hundreds of thugs, right?
I mean, you kind of squished up, right?
I mean, there really wasn't any place to get away.
There was the hall that we were trying to get into, the police, the protesters, and then where the line would go into the hall.
And that was, it's called Red Square.
And we were basically confined to Red Square, so like where the common area would be.
So we weren't exactly pushed up against a wall, but definitely as soon as Black Lives Matter showed up, we were pretty much encircled.
Right.
And is there, I guess there's this False narrative that Milo is some sort of white nationalist or whatever.
Do you know if that was the Black Lives Matter issue?
Oh, yeah.
It was pretty funny.
I wouldn't call it funny.
Actually, the protesters called people standing in line racist a lot.
Yeah.
Of course.
And I guess this is the narrative, right?
Trump is a racist.
All the Trump supporters are racist.
You guys are Trump supporters.
Milo is a Trump supporter.
Therefore, you're all racist.
You're all Nazis.
And you then can be aggressed against, and it becomes a shining moment of virtue, right?
Oh, yeah.
One of the signs that someone had said, Hitler had Goebbels, Trump has Bannon, Bannon has Milo.
Not an argument.
Not an argument.
No, not an argument.
Also bricks.
Not an argument.
Wow.
Now, what has the aftermath been?
I mean, you stayed, I guess at some point you got away.
Were the protesters or the, sorry, I keep using that word too, my mistake.
Were the thugs beginning to clear off at that point or how did you get out?
Ellie, do you want to tell your side?
It seems like you got out of there a little bit earlier.
Yeah, I did.
I got out of there around 9.30, I think.
Sorry, 8.30, which was right after the shooting.
And basically, there are two main exits, I think, to Red Square.
So I made a run for the one away from the Black Lives Matter protesters.
And with my experience, after the shooting, pretty much everybody wanted to get out.
And I met some guys that one needed to run back to his car to grab his wallet for whatever.
We were about to go to a bar and get a burger.
And the protesters stayed around for a while.
Or the thugs.
So we left, went to the car, came back, and we cut across the Red Square just to kind of see what was going on, because at that point, Milo was over halfway through his speech, and we figured, you know, alright, somebody just got shot, you know, this is only going to escalate, so we should probably leave.
But there was this venom in Every thug, every processor that I saw that was, you know, you're in the wrong...
I mean, I don't know how many times just walking through the square I got told, like, you're in the wrong fucking place.
You know, you need to get the hell out of here because, you know...
I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but there were people sitting there crying because somebody got shot.
And it was like, you were fucking attacking.
And then now you're going to sit there and cry like...
That is literally cry-bullying.
Like, that is insane.
But then this, like, you're in the wrong place.
You need to leave.
And we went to the bar and got a drink or two.
And they were still there at 10 o'clock.
And still just as nasty.
I think they counted it as a win that most of the crowd dispersed after the shooting.
I think another thing to point out about what you said is that, as far as I see, they don't see...
they didn't see the conservatives as humans.
When someone was with them who got shot, they were crying, but they found it perfectly acceptable to throw bricks at people.
They just think...
they saw people standing in line as evil, subhuman, that it was perfectly acceptable to kill them, I guess.
Well, that was the threat.
I mean, that's what happens when you throw bricks at people, as some of them could conceivably die.
So, yeah.
And the funny thing is, too, is that on the left, there's all this theory.
I don't think that necessarily these thugs were enacting him.
But there's this theory.
There's the other.
You know, they're always talking about the other.
You've got to accept the other.
You can't demonize the other.
And, of course, it's all...
Everything the left tells you not to do is their battle plan.
Just every single time.
We want peaceful dialogue.
Boom!
Oh, here comes some bricks.
Everything they tell you is bad is exactly what they're going to do next.
And everything they tell you you're doing is what they're about to do, which you're not doing.
Remember when Barack Obama That's their plan.
They're telling you exactly what they're going to do.
They're just pretending that you're going to do it first.
If it becomes impossible to have a right-wing event without these leftist lunatics coming out and using violence, I don't think the right is going to say, well, okay, You can have the planet.
We'll just sit here and wait for the camps because that's what eventually comes with the left.
I mean, can you imagine if these people had political power?
Imagine if the police were 100% on their side.
Can you imagine what your life would be like?
How short it would be?
Yeah, it'd be crazy.
That would be awful, because I don't think the left is going to have any realization of this.
They're not going to say to Black Lives Matter, look, we understand you're upset about police brutality, but hey, why don't you not kill people?
I mean, the average liberal seems to be, as I've seen on Twitter, perfectly happy with the assassination of our president.
And even my parents said about this event, oh, you know, the protesters, they were just upset about the inauguration.
Which is, I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.
Your parents said, well, it's kind of justified because they were upset?
I didn't think it was justified, but understandable, maybe is a better word.
But everyone who uses violence is upset.
Of course.
Does that mean all violence is understandable?
One of these bricks could have hit you, and your parents are...
Empathizing with the brick throwers?
I think they would say, oh, you shouldn't have gone.
You knew it would have been bad.
They're upset about the inauguration.
It's the Breitbart guy.
He always gets protested.
Oh, so you just give up.
So you just surrender to violence.
You give up.
You cede over control of everything.
You hand civilization over to the thugs.
You just let them run the world, right?
That's the plan?
Yeah, it's insane.
I've been told that I was looking to start trouble by going to this event.
Yeah, no, no.
And a lot of people on the left use exactly the same argument when women wear short skirts and get raped.
You know, you're just looking for trouble.
Just out there, if you're not in a burka, you're just looking for trouble.
Right?
See the double standard?
Crazy.
Yeah, I mean, it's going to dissolve into, like, late Weimar Germany.
If the police don't step up and do their jobs and arrest whoever's throwing them, if people in the Milo crowd are throwing, I don't think they would, but if they were throwing rocks, then arrest those people too.
But enforce the First Amendment.
It's the first for a reason, because everything else depends on that freedom of speech thing.
And if the police aren't going to do their job, the right is done backing down.
They've been doing that for 50 years.
The right is done backing down.
That is definitely the attitude that I saw while within the Milo crowd and the Trump crowd.
People would say, I'm tired of it.
I'm done with these people.
Call me names all you want, but I'm done catering to them.
I'm done being nice.
Yeah, if the police are going to defer to whoever brings the most punch to the fight, we know what the right is going to do.
I mean, if it's like, well, you know, the people on the left, they're really dangerous, the people on the right aren't, so we're going to side with the people on the left.
Then all you're doing is you're encouraging the right to become more violent, to balance things out.
You know, there's this horrible idea in the world that you're told to be nice so that cowards know who to defer to.
You know, you be nice.
Like if you've ever had a sibling or a friend where there's a conflict.
Siblings is more accurate because they're trapped in the house, right?
And there's one sibling who's really aggressive and one sibling who's not.
A lot of times the parent will go to the one who's not aggressive and say, just find some way to get along.
Don't antagonize him.
Just play somewhere else.
Get your own friends.
They'll go and try and Condition the behavior of the better person, of the nicer person, of the more peaceful person, of the more reasonable person.
And they will unconsciously side with, align with, and enable the most aggressive person in the room by lecturing the most reasonable person in the room.
And if that is what is going to happen, I don't think it will.
It would have got even worse under Hillary, but not so much under Trump.
But if the right ever gets that sense...
That societies deferring to the left because the left is more violent?
We all know what's going to happen, right?
No, it's going to get awful quick.
Yeah.
Yeah, be like, oh, okay, so being nice has everyone lecture me and avoid the violent person.
Okay, I guess I'm done being nice then, aren't I? I mean, that's how it's going to go.
But I think hopefully the police will start doing their jobs.
And look, the police are...
I mean, the Ferguson effect, I think, is very real.
And if there's a conflict between a white man and a black man, or a black man and a white woman, or whatever it is, right?
The police have been Ferguson, right?
They've been Zimmerman, right?
So they're concerned that if they get involved in this, and things go wrong, and if a black kid gets shot or whatever, and he wasn't armed, you know, that they're I don't know all of the facts about what's going to come out with this kind of stuff, but I think that the police are pretty nervous about that.
And that's the media, right?
That's the media that is causing this.
You know, the pen is mightier than the sword.
That's why I'm not at the army, right?
I mean, the pen is mightier than the sword.
And I think...
That's where it's going to go if the police felt that they would have the support of people for enforcing the laws.
Because the funny thing is, you know, the left is always screaming hysterically about, well, the police took someone on and they were unarmed and unarmed.
He was unarmed.
And it's like, well, weren't you all in a gun-free zone on campus?
I mean...
Everyone who was lining up was unarmed, having projectiles thrown at them.
So it seems to me that being unarmed is only important if you're on the left.
Being unarmed is great if you're on the right, because then you can't fight back.
Alright, is there anything else you guys wanted to add?
I appreciate you giving us the boots on the ground for you.
I just wanted to say thank you guys for all the work that you do.
This show has really been a catalyst to Get my life into a much better situation.
I just wanted to say thank you.
You're very welcome.
I would actually love to say the same.
I really appreciate your show.
Well, thanks guys.
Thanks so much for calling in.
Stay strong, stay safe, of course, and I'm glad that we have a chance to spread this around.
If we lose...
Free speech, if we lose peaceable assembly, if we lose the capacity to make speeches, and if we lose that, there's nothing left to fight for because there's no way to fight other than rivers of blood.
So we hang on to free speech.
We fight back as peacefully as we can against those who would encroach our capacity to gather and to share ideas.
And that is the last thing that I'll ever fight for because after that, There's nothing to fight for.
So I appreciate that you guys stood up for this.
And thanks so much for sharing.
Let's move on to the next caller.
Thank you.
Alright, up next we have James.
James wrote in and said, If no other appeal to the child for obedience is functional, and the threat to the child is the child's certain death or severe harm, then would you find spanking justifiable in order to prevent such an event from occurring?
That is from Sam.
Hi James, how are you doing tonight?
Alright, how are you sir?
I am all right.
I am all right.
Why is this question important to you?
Why is this question important to me?
Because it's, you know, it relates to certainly my own childhood and namely that, you know, probably all my surroundings in when I was a young boy were things that could probably kill me.
What do you mean?
What do I mean?
Things I could probably kill?
Did you grow up on a sword farm or something?
I don't understand.
No.
My grandparents did have a farm, and I was there often.
So there's graders, there's black bears, there's all these other kinds of things.
But in particular, one thing that comes to my mind is my father's garage.
And he's a carpenter, and so he's constantly doing work in the garage.
And, you know, my being a kid, I don't know how old I was, maybe three, four, five, something like that, you know, I want to hang out with my dad.
So I'm going to the garage, which is full of nothing but power tools.
There is nothing else in there but a table saw, hacksaw, you name it, it's in there.
And being a kid that I was, I want to touch all the buttons.
Or...
See for myself, touch with hand.
And apparently I was like this all the time.
I remember one time when I was five, you know, I wanted to touch the stove because, well, it's bright and orange and looks pretty and, you know, it hurt.
But in this particular situation, I guess, you know, I want to hang out with my dad.
I want to see what he's up to.
I want to touch things.
And just imagine that he's in and out of the garage constantly.
My mom is supervising or he's supervising, but he can't be closing the door all the time to keep me out.
He can't lock me in the house forever.
I'm sorry, why can't he?
I mean, opening and closing a door, it's not like he has to build the door from scratch.
I mean, why can't he open and close the door?
So keep you up.
It's only you have the garage door, the big door that opens, that he's in and out and in and out and in and out.
And so imagine taking a minute every time you go in and out, and you're going in and out every 30 seconds for whatever reason, to do all kinds of things.
No, no, no, no, no.
No?
No, no, no.
Come on.
Yeah.
Have you never timed yourself?
Let me just try this.
I'm going to go to the door, I'm going to open it, and I'm going to close it.
Hang on a sec.
Oh no, not that kind of door.
You mean like the big garage door?
Yes, the big garage door.
That's what I mean.
Like, you have to actually pull a lever open, open, open, open, open, open, open, open until it's all the way.
Why is he going in and out of the garage that way?
What's wrong with the door that goes into the house?
The garage is not connected to the house.
This is completely outside.
I'm playing outside.
Oh, okay, okay.
Yeah, so why not just get a little low safety fence that you would use, like, for the top of the stairs?
I guess he never had that idea.
But he's a handyman.
He's full of table saws.
He knows how to build things, right?
Sure.
So he could just build a little thing there.
He could step over it very easily.
Wouldn't need to open and close the garage door.
Perhaps.
But this is one of the things that actually occurs to me.
At some point, I need to learn that it's not about...
Whether I can reach the thing.
This is the child safety issue on little containers.
Obviously, the child safety prevents you from opening the container and getting the pills.
But the real issue is that you want the child to know that he shouldn't even be trying to open the container to get to the pills.
Right.
So you put the pills in a locked drawer.
Again, I don't really understand why this is so challenging.
Or you have a big...
Well, of course, power tools have safeties, right?
The table saws have safety things on them, right?
And you plug them into a big power bar that you turn off when you have to go somewhere so that it can't be...
And you put that up or out of reach of the child, right?
I mean, come on.
Think of it this way, James.
If your father were to be offered a million dollars to find a way...
To keep you from sawing your own head off, right?
He would find a way.
It's a matter of incentive, right?
It's possible.
Right.
Because I see children everywhere, all over the place, and most of them are still head-attached.
And there are stairs, there are forks, there are knives, there are stoves, there's boiling water.
I mean, it's a death magnet.
Babies and toddlers are death magnets, and you work like hell to make them as safe as possible.
And even then, that can be the odd accident or two.
Think of Michael Buble's kid, some boiling thing, now some kid's got cancer, a horrible story.
Anyway.
But you can find a way.
You can find a way.
Now, if you say, though, spanking is an option, do you know what you do?
You stop trying to find a way.
If you say to yourself, well, spanking is not an option, Then as a parent, you find another solution.
We're very, very ingenious as a species.
We can get a man to the moon and back again.
I'm pretty sure we can figure out how to have a child stop dismembering himself on power tools that have lots of safeties and require electricity to run.
He could also, when he's got to go into the house, he could pick you up and take you with him.
So it's a matter of incentive.
If spanking is not an option, you find another solution.
If spanking is an option, you do the spanking and then you stop looking for other solutions.
But you can't say, well, what if there aren't any other solutions?
Because if you take the spanking, and I assume that's what your father did, right?
Was it if you got close to the garage, he would spank you?
Well, there's a second part of the story, which I haven't told yet.
He tried various things, but the point is, kid is curious, fine.
So he offered the wake-up call, the spanking, and sort of like the kind of quiet, kind person in the conversation suddenly dropping an F-bomb, and everyone is like, what just happened?
That was the reaction.
And so the next time I approached with caution, but Then every time I approached the garage, he did not spank me.
But here's what he actually did is that there's that insatiable curiosity.
I want to touch the running table saw.
And so what he actually did is like, you know, having that fear and trepidation of being like, he told me this story.
I don't actually remember this part of the story myself, but he says, okay, you know, are you going to listen to me?
I said, Yes, like in fear.
And so he picked me up, he brought me to the table saw, and he put my hand near the blade, not close enough to, you know, get cut, but to let me feel the ridiculous power of the thing and create the correlation.
Okay, that pain that I just inflicted on you before, this is what that would do to you.
And he says that, you know, once I saw that, I suddenly got the point.
And not only didn't I never challenge him on that again, is that from that point on, and I remember this, I went to the garage and spent time around the power tools frequently and never had a problem.
Okay, so he didn't spank you.
He just showed you how dangerous they could be.
He showed me how dangerous they could be and created that correlation between the pain of spanking and the pain of the potential power tool, if you will.
And it became actually a safe zone because I know where the danger is.
And I think this is actually where I'm actually getting at and asking this question is less...
Less the issue of spanking itself, but the philosophy of punishment, for lack of a better description, is that I've never understood myself the point of denying a child a meal for whatever things.
Like, you didn't do your homework, okay, you're not eating supper.
My mother never did anything like that to me.
On the other hand, there is a certain sense to...
If you don't eat your meal, you're going to be denied dessert because it creates a correlation between the food and the food which is dessert.
Well, no, that's the argument around not getting dessert until after you've eaten your meal is because I'm not a big fan of dessert.
We rarely have it.
But the argument for that is if you eat dessert A lot of empty calories before your meal, you won't eat the good food, right?
You'll be full, you'll be satiated, so on, right?
I mean, your certain amount of calories go in and your body puts out the we're full joy juice, right?
So it's a matter of staying healthy, of keeping the child healthy.
That's the equivalent of putting sunscreen on your child.
Like, if you really don't wanna wear sunscreen and it's a blazing hot day and the UV index is super high, if you don't wanna wear sunscreen, that's perfectly fine.
You just, you can't go outside.
Right.
Right?
I mean, that's, you know, and I have done that if I really don't feel like putting sunscreen on, I'll just sit by the window and get warm or something, right?
So that's not, that's not punishment, that's consequences.
Like, I mean, you have to have healthy calories, so eat your food, then you can have a little dessert maybe, or some fruit or something.
That's not a punishment, that's We all do that.
I should eat something healthy, not something unhealthy.
I mean, you know, I need to put on sunscreen because I'm going outside.
I mean, am I punishing myself by saying I should have some peas and potatoes before, I don't know, I have a brownie?
I don't know when was the last brownie I ate.
Who knows, right?
But I'm not punishing myself.
I'm just reminding myself of what is healthy and a positive thing to do.
Yeah, and it's teaching a good habit.
Because not only is it...
denying the brownie for the sake of the food so you can actually get the food in you, but that the food needs to be balanced and healthy.
Like you want to eat the whole meal before eating dessert.
And it's just that matter of, you know, there's sort of like this, you know, these stages of, you know, fear and looking for something just for your own well-being and then loving it for what it is.
like different stages.
I don't know what that means in particular, but when it comes to being a father, If spanking was not on the table for you as a father, if you were in your own father's position, if spanking was not an option that you considered, could you think of any other way that you could keep your child safe from the power tools?
Looking back for at that time, you mean?
No, no, no, now.
Like if you were in this situation.
Now, yeah, you could wall it off.
You could put safety switches on all the buttons.
Nevertheless, at some point, I'd want to teach my child that, you know, not just that avoid all objects that are dangerous without telling that it's dangerous, but I want to actually teach my child, here's things that are dangerous, here's things that can hurt you, and well, like crossing the street, for example.
Like, if you get it wrong the first time, it's too late.
Of course, yeah.
I mean, I get it.
Toddlers and power tools don't mix, which is why you shouldn't mix them together.
I mean, your father wouldn't give you a gun to play with, right?
I mean, of course, right?
I understand.
But if spanking wasn't an option, could you find any way?
Or is it like spanking or potential blood spraying, wood chipper dismemberment?
I mean, is that the only two options that we have?
No.
Okay, okay.
So that's all...
My point, right?
That's my entire point.
If spanking is an option, parents will tend to spank.
And then they miss out on all the other cool things they might have done, which don't involve hitting their child in order to keep their child safe.
If the child is too young to reason...
Then hitting them is, that's how you train a dog in a cruel way.
I mean, that's not a good thing to do.
If they're too young to reason, then just keep them away from whatever is dangerous and then introduce things that are dangerous into their environment slowly.
You know, they can use a butter knife and then they can use a steak knife and, you know, just just natural escalation.
The children don't want to get hurt.
The children don't want to injure themselves and so on.
And you just have to be.
You have to be really careful.
That's my concern.
Right.
So this is why I won't open the door to spanking at all.
At all.
I mean, other than the sort of principle that it's a violation of the non-aggression principle, because it's not violence used in self-defense, is that it shuts off the other solutions that might be there.
And that, to me, is one of the biggest calamities, is that parents say, well, you know, I'm gonna solve this problem by spanking.
It's like, well, what if you couldn't?
What if that was the wrong thing to do?
Are you then saying the problem could never be solved?
And this is a part of a larger picture, right?
Because I say, in general, Government education is a bad thing.
Ah, then we can't educate children, people say.
It's government education or complete ignorance.
These false dichotomies, you're not free if you live in a world of false dichotomies.
If you live in a world of being programmed by disaster scenarios that give you only one choice, it is spanking or my child is going to be dismembered by a table saw, right?
I mean, then you can justify anything that way, right?
I have to cut off his toe, otherwise he's going to be dismembered.
You could, you know, everything up to actually dismembering the child with a table saw, you can kind of justify.
If you program yourself with these absolutes, these false dichotomies, Well, it's government education or no education.
It's welfare or people dying in the streets.
It's socialized healthcare or it's people dying of illness.
It's subsidizing farmers or people starve to death.
You can always give yourself these false dichotomies, these like escalating absolutes.
But it doesn't give you any choice.
It doesn't give you any nuance.
It doesn't give you any creativity.
You're just bullying yourself with these false absolutes.
Now, your father probably said to himself at some point, well, spanking is the lesser of two evils.
Spanking is better than my child getting dismembered by a table saw.
And so he did that, right?
He hit you and other things as well.
He gave you the tour of the disaster scenario.
And it's interesting to me that that's what happened.
So this is the effect of spanking.
One of them.
One of the effects of spanking is this polarized black and white thinking.
Well, I had to be spanked because if I wasn't spanked, I'd dismember myself with a table saw, right?
And this is one of the challenges.
This is one of the things that happens, whereas if there's creative solutions, you sit down, you say to your kid, okay, it's really, really dangerous stuff in there.
I'm terrified.
Being parenting, parenting is vulnerability, right?
So really, really dangerous stuff in there.
I'm terrified.
Of you getting hurt.
What are we going to do?
Help me to solve this problem.
And if your child's too young to do anything like that, just keep them away from the dangerous stuff.
If the child is old enough to begin to participate in these kinds of solutions, then have a conversation about it.
Because then you're free to negotiate.
You're free to help the child understand what the dangers are.
And of course, you still have to keep your wits about you.
But spanking...
Like all violence, it polarizes our thinking and it doesn't allow us to be creative and negotiation-based in our solutions.
Fair enough, yet that's not the whole story here.
The whole story includes the fact that he didn't repeat it.
It was a one-time thing with the intention of teaching, not out of anger, not out of vindictiveness, not out of wrath, but the whole point.
It's like, here is pain.
That's what this thing over here does.
And then he actually humored my curiosity.
Okay, you want to know what the table saw does?
I didn't put my hand to it.
It's like, actually, this is the thing you were so curious about.
I was happy with it, and everything was okay.
There was no repetition to it.
It was actually used not as a form of wrath, but as a teaching tool for the situation.
If it was so innocuous, James, why are you calling in decades later?
This is my fundamental question.
It's not innocuous.
It is not innocuous to be hit by your parent, even if it's only once, even if it was for a supposed good cause and all of that.
If it was genuinely innocuous, Why are you calling in?
It's important that you were hit.
It doesn't mean your father's an evil guy.
It doesn't mean he didn't have the best intentions.
It doesn't mean that you should condemn him.
I mean, this was the knowledge a lot of people had back in the day, and I'm not sort of trying to set you at odds with your father.
But, you know, when I sort of point out that it's important, you say, well, you know, it was only one time, it was kind of innocuous.
I've got better things to do with my life, James, than spend time talking about innocuous events with people who don't care about them.
If you care about it, we'll talk about it.
If you don't care about it, move on to the next caller.
I do care about it.
Okay, so then don't tell me it was a one-time thing and it was, you know, for a good intention and it's not really that important.
Right?
It is important.
You were hit by a father and there was another way he could have done it.
Doesn't mean he's a terrible guy, but it does mean that he could have done something better.
See, I don't know about that because that is what happened.
What I do know is that I learned something valuable and that I appreciate it.
You appreciate it being hit.
I appreciate the lesson.
Let's call it what it is.
Don't conflate it with something else.
Two and two make four is a lesson.
Right?
How many continents in the world there are?
What's the capital of the Arkansas?
Those are all lessons.
They don't involve hitting people.
You were hit by your father and you're saying that you appreciate it.
I'd rather learn about pain from someone I love than an enemy.
See, here's the false dichotomy.
Either my father beats me or an enemy beats me.
You see how this violence creates this polarization in people's minds, which strips them of free will and subtlety.
I don't think of it as a polarization.
You just gave me an example that you'd rather learn about pain from someone who loves you than an enemy.
Don't you think that's a polarization?
I don't think it's polarization.
I'll tell you why.
It's because, you know, in the world we live in, like, let's look at the previous call, you got these people who actually go and, you know, throw a riot at a Washington gathering, you know, for Milo, and...
And the issue is, you know, suddenly people are confronted with pain, with hurt and stuff like that.
And, you know, the question we were talking about is the whole idea of retaliation.
Like in war, you know, obviously we want, like I can't have any argument against, you know, a world where everything is taught peacefully or done peacefully.
But the issue is when you have this issue of evil, when people actually come out and I would hardly say that...
That killing the person is good.
It may be necessary at the time, but it doesn't make it good.
I would never say it's good.
Hang on, James.
James, I hope you will listen back to that.
I'm sorry to interrupt.
I hope that you will listen back to this.
This polarization and these defenses that are being provoked are really foundational.
And this is my whole issue with spanking.
Now, spanking, being hit by your father was good because war and murder?
Did you realize that this is what I'm talking about when I talk about escalation and polarization?
Now you're justifying being hit by a father because that way you can kill people in a war?
That's not what I said at all.
It is kind of what you said.
It really is.
You were talking about war and killing people.
Do you not remember that?
Yes, I remember that.
It's all recorded.
Yes, I know that.
We can play it back.
I'm not trying to get you or anything here, but you were the one bringing up war and killing people and how to do it.
That's kind of an escalation.
The reality of the world is that things are going to come and confront us that are evil.
Despite our peaceful intentions, however strong they may be, we need to confront it.
And I want to know about the fact that I need to confront it.
Okay, so you don't consider it an escalation to say, my father hit me, and that's good because now I can confront evil.
No, but I don't, I didn't, if I did say that, if that's what I said, that's certainly not what I meant.
Then why are we talking about all this crap of war and evil and confrontation?
I don't understand.
I thought the whole point wasn't to train you to kill people in a war or confront evil or whatever the hell.
I thought it was to keep you safe from power tools.
And then what happens is when I tell you there's many, many better ways and more moral ways to keep you safe from power tools, you slip to plan B, which is, yes, but I'll be able to strangle people in wartime.
What?
You understand?
This is crazy talk.
And this is what violence does.
This is why I oppose it, because it makes people crazy when it comes to trying to defend the undefendable.
Your father did not have to hit you.
Your father did not have to hit you.
And I'm sorry that he did.
I'm not trying to say this makes him an endlessly bottomly terrible evil person or anything like that, but he was wrong to hit you.
It's a violation of the non-aggression principle.
It was an immoral thing to do.
I'm glad he only did it once.
Fantastic.
I suspect it may have been more than once given your emotional reaction, but I'll go with what you say.
So he was wrong to do it.
It's okay.
We've all done things in our lives that were wrong.
I have.
You have.
Your father did.
We'll survive.
But that doesn't mean that I'm going to shift my commitment to the non-aggression principle.
It is not self-defense to hit a child.
It is not defense of the third party to hit a child because you can peacefully keep a child safe without hitting the child.
Now all this stuff that you're pulling out about wartime and confronting evil and being able to kill people or whatever...
I have no idea what any of that means.
Maybe you're saying, and I've seen these arguments a lot, you know, well, these leftist snowflake social justice warriors, the problem is they weren't spanked when they were children.
If they'd been spanked when they were children, none of this would be happening.
Look, the wars that we face, look, people were spanked throughout Europe for the past 50,000 years.
And you know what happened?
World War I. And World War II. And the Cold War, which was basically Europeans threatening to destroy the entire planet because of childhood.
And I've got The Origins of War and Child Abuse.
It's a free book at freedomainradio.com slash free, written by Lloyd DeMoss and read by me, which is well worth examining.
The people who are out there, we talked to the first callers who were at the Milo event, the people who are out there throwing bricks and stuff like that, these people did not have happy childhoods.
They were not lovingly spanked once or twice by their parents.
These people had god-awful childhoods.
It doesn't mean that I think they should be able to throw rocks.
It doesn't mean I don't think they belong in jail.
I'm just telling you the cause of what came about.
This was out of neglect.
This was out of brutality.
This may be out of sexual abuse.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But these weren't people who were lovingly and peacefully raised and they turned out this way because they weren't spanked at all.
My daughter...
Not spanked, not punished, never had a timeout, never denied her food, never taken away a toy, nothing.
And she is assertive and she doesn't take crap from anyone, but she's not aggressive.
She doesn't initiate force.
She doesn't initiate verbal abuse.
She doesn't do any of that stuff.
Of course not.
She's not weak.
She's not a snowflake.
She's incredibly strong.
And the idea that we're going to try and mine The scars of being hit as children and say, well, all of this wonderful stuff came out of it or all this good stuff came out of it.
You don't know.
And the reason you don't know, James, is you don't know what it was like to grab not being hit.
Neither do I. Neither do I. I can recreate that in my own family now, my real family, my chosen family.
But you don't know how you would have been if you had been raised in With negotiation, with peace, with voluntarism.
If you've been raised a little more morally, you don't know.
You don't know.
And you're creating all these scenarios wherein somehow it was really good for you to be hit.
I understand why you're doing that.
Because we bond with our parents and we need our parents.
And it's hard to criticize one's own parents.
I understand that.
I really do.
But you need to understand that that's what's going on.
This idea that, well, it's going to make me a good killer in wartime.
I mean, come on.
That's not how we justify things.
That's consequentialism.
It's moral to beat children because it makes them psychotically efficient killing machines in wartime.
You understand this is not an argument that's going to fly with any reasonable person, right?
Well, that's not what I was saying, so of course I'm going to disagree with that.
Okay, well, I'll tell you what.
Why don't you go back and listen to what you said, because you may be a little bit surprised.
Sometimes when we're being defensive, we don't know what we're saying.
But go have a listen back, and if you still think that you didn't say, call back in and we'll talk about it.
But right now I'm going to move on to the next caller.
Thanks very much for your call.
Thank you.
Alright, up next we have Fontaine.
Fontaine wrote in and said, This was the core problem with the conversation all the way through the talk.
A quote-unquote right is defined by the founders and recognized in the Bill of Rights, is that in which you can express yourself in a free market.
For example, freedom of speech is an inalienable right because you don't need to use force to exploit anyone by exercising it.
Same with the right to self-preservation.
You don't need to exploit anyone to defend yourself in a free market.
Please tell me why I and the Founders are wrong in the definition of inalienable rights.
That's from Fontaine.
Fontaine, how are you doing tonight?
I'm doing great.
Can you hear me alright?
Yes, I can.
Alright, great.
I was worried about the audio.
I have a Blue Yeti mic on the way and it didn't get here in time.
Yeah, it's not great, but we'll survive.
Alright.
So, what is a right?
Well, a right, if I want to expand on what I said, a right is something in which cannot be transferred without the consent of the person who owns it.
So, by definition, freedom of speech, someone cannot force me to stop talking without using force.
If they want to say, stop talking, I have to consent to stop talking, otherwise they use force, and therefore they're breaking the non-aggressive principle.
Same thing with the right to remain silent, or the right to self-preservation, which is in the Second Amendment.
We have the right to defend ourselves.
Even if they was to take our guns away, you know, theoretically, We could still defend ourselves.
They can't keep us from fighting back.
It's pretty much impossible unless they locked us up, but then again, that would be forced.
So there are rights that are unalienable that are recognized by many, many legal precedents, including the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and many scholars.
There's some philosophical scholars But when I was looking through the conversation, when I was listening to it...
And by the way, this is the first time that I've ever been...
I've ever disagreed with you.
But I was astounded that you...
Maybe it just didn't come up.
I don't know.
But I was astounded that you weren't recognizing these rights.
This definition didn't come up anywhere in the conversation, so maybe you just didn't get to it.
But I was wanting to call in and get your clarification or maybe see if we could talk about it.
Whatever you see fit, it is your show.
Okay, I appreciate that.
So a right is not something that exists like a tree or a rock, right?
Well, it comes to fruition when someone speaks it.
But if we're talking about philosophically, no, it doesn't exist.
Just like philosophy doesn't exist.
It's an abstract.
It's not concrete.
It doesn't mean we can't express our philosophy.
You do it every week.
Sure.
No, no, I'm not trying to denigrate it.
I just want to make sure that metaphysically we're starting at the same place.
You don't think it's something that, you know, like some people would say a soul exists and other people would say it isn't.
So it's not something like a soul in the body.
It is a claim, right?
I mean, it is something where we say, I request that the government protect my right to do X or to not do X, right?
Well...
See, that's a little bit dicey because it doesn't require the government to do anything.
Now, the government might disagree and try to take it away, but the government can never actually take it away.
So it doesn't need the consent of the government.
It helps.
It helps a lot.
Oh, so I see.
So like in the Wild West, you'd have the right of self-defense, even if there was no government around, right?
Absolutely.
Okay.
So I think that what you're defining a right to be a similar what I would define as universally preferable behavior, right?
Something which can be exercised by everyone at the same time, which doesn't require a win-lose scenario, which can't be magically removed from a category called Human beings and so on.
So it is a theoretical construct designed around universality and of course everyone can exercise freedom of speech at the same time.
Everyone can exercise not exercising freedom of speech at the same time.
So it sounds like we're using the word rights to describe moral properties or moral qualities that are universal to human beings and it's It's nice if they're recognized, but even if you don't recognize physics, it doesn't change the nature of reality.
And even if you don't recognize what you would call rights and what I would call universally preferable behavior, even if you don't recognize those things, it doesn't change the nature of the theoretical construct.
Is that a reasonable way to put it?
That is very reasonable.
The only thing that I would add is universally preferable behavior.
You know, that's kind of like, okay, who prefers this and who prefers that, you know?
And when we're talking about in the construct of, you know, manifestation, you know, it's something that can't be manifested, but it has, even though it's an abstract idea, like universally preferable behavior, I'm having a hard time saying that for some reason, it has contributed to our society In a concrete way.
When the founders first got together and they came up with the Novus Bordo Seclorum, which was their experiment for a new type of country, they wrote these things down.
In a way to where the government can, well, theoretically, the government can never take them away, even though, like I just explained, they can't really ever take them away, but they want to prop them up as principles for this country.
And if we had gone the way of John Adams, right, because it was an experiment.
Things were changing.
If we'd gone the way of John Adams, who wanted to punish dissent, And not the way of Thomas Jefferson, it would have been a completely different country.
But we inevitably went the way of Thomas Jefferson and held that up as a principle to where you cannot hurt me if I don't hurt you.
I can say what I want as long as I'm not speaking speech that incites violence as in Open slandering people, because that's not technically free speech.
So, with those ideas, we were able to, in a free market, we were able to make, you know, tremendous strides, because we were openly talking about things.
As if, but if we went the other way, those inventions that we, you know, the Industrial Revolution, things like that, We might not even came up with those if not for the right of free speech.
And just like when you said on your first caller, you know, it all hinges on that.
I think you called it a principle there, or I forgot what you called it, but it all hinges on that freedom of speech and the non-aggression principle.
So even though it is an abstract, it does help manifest concrete things.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Okay, but let's...
So, would you say that property, the right to property, is foundational?
Well, the right to property comes from...
Well, the First Amendment comes from the right to property.
Do you own yourself, right?
If you have a voluntary exchange with somebody for their property, say, I'm going to give them 12 goats for this parcel of land, then I now own that because they got it lawfully in a free market.
Now...
If I own that, like I own my body, then this, of course, now, just to say, this isn't how it is today, but that is my domain.
So that's my property rights.
I have the right to say...
No, no, I don't want to get into a whole description of the origins of property rights, but you would, of course, assume that property...
But here's the challenge, right?
So the government exists because it is willing to violate property rights because it will take taxes from you against your will.
So if you're going to have property rights, then saying, well, there's a Bill of Rights and the government guarantees your rights.
I know that we've said that it exists outside of that, but you brought up that stuff a lot, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and so on.
But the government is that social agency that can violate your rights pretty much at will.
And that, of course, is the challenge with rights, right?
So most people, when you say rights, and you talk about universal constructs of preferred behavior, letting people have free speech and respecting property, personhood, and so on.
The problem is most people think that a right is a claim enforced by the government.
That a right is a claim enforced by the government.
And that's what the word means now.
It's been co-opted by the United Nations.
It's been co-opted by governments.
It's been co-opted by you name it, right?
A right is a claim enforced by the government.
I have a right to healthcare.
Well, I have a claim that is enforced by the government.
The government going to force people to give me healthcare or force people to pay for those who are going to give me healthcare.
So this is, when I say I don't accept rights, it's not like I don't accept morality.
It's not like I don't accept the non-aggression principle.
I've worked very hard to come up with a theoretical construct around all of that.
It's just that...
I mean, I'll sort of tell you what I mean in a very brief story.
So I spent some time, as I mentioned, actually on a video today, the National Theatre School.
And I was working on a play...
And in it, I used the word gremlins.
And my writing teacher, and I'll never forget this, my writing teacher said, that word is owned by, I don't know who made Spielberg or whoever made the film Gremlins, it's a movie.
I said, I don't know.
I've never seen that movie.
But gremlins actually means hamina, hamina, hamina.
And I went sort of back into the etymology of the word gremlins.
And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It doesn't matter.
The word is now owned by the guy who made the movie gremlins.
That's what the word means now.
Because that's what everyone thinks of when that word comes up.
And I said, so what?
I'm just...
I'm not allowed to use the word gremlins.
He's like, nope.
You're really not allowed.
Because you don't own it.
It's not yours.
You can't just go back and rescue it.
Unless you make a bigger film than Gremlins that strikes people.
And you won't because people will always.
And I've thought about this with other terms that I've used in this.
And this is why the invention of new terms is really important.
It's not all newspeak.
It's not all corruption.
The invention of new terms is really important.
Because when words are owned by other people, and the word rights has not been owned by the right for probably at least 100 years, since the progressives really got their teeth in in the early 20th century, the right means a claim of something I want that is enforced by the government.
Look at the word anarchy.
I mean, I've written books on anarchy, and this was 10 years ago, 8 or 9 years ago.
Great books!
I stand by them until they're proven otherwise.
This is what you live with.
This is what you have.
But what does anarchy now mean?
It now means violent, insane leftists who break things and throw rocks at people and so...
Oh dear, I'm wearing black too in the video.
Right?
So you can say, well, this is what my rights are.
This is what rights mean.
But you don't own the word.
It's like gremlins.
The word has been taken over by the left.
And trying to rescue it, it's way too far gone, in my opinion.
And this is why I think when I talk about let's not...
Open up the question of rights, because when you say rights, people are like, ah, things I want enforced by the government, claims enforced by the government.
You want property rights, I want free healthcare.
We both have rights.
And it's like, how do you untangle all of that?
How do you untangle?
It's tough enough doing math in your head.
It's kind of impossible doing math in your head with other people yelling random numbers into your ear, at least for most people.
So it's not that you and I disagree that there's objective morality, that there are what I call universally preferable behavior.
That doesn't mean what people prefer, but what they should prefer.
But the word right, I got a right.
You've got no right to talk to me like that.
You've got no right to congregate like that.
You've got no right to deny me my education.
The word has become so co-opted by the left.
You know, you have to abandon it.
You have to just abandon it and get someplace new.
And this is why I think the challenge of rights is significant.
So I think that you and I agree on everything except the language.
But I do, I'm just making the case.
I'm not saying you can't use the word rights or anything.
I'm just making a case When I talk about universally preferable behavior, we have a conversation about something new.
When you have a conversation about rights, you kind of have to undo everything that people have been told for the last hundred years or more, which has destroyed, of course.
The Bill of Rights was supposed to be universal, and the idea that there'd be a right to healthcare, well, I guess it took ladies getting the vote to bring that one to the forefront.
But that's sort of, I think, where our disagreement may exist.
Okay, and I completely agree with you.
The only problem that I have, and I would refer back to a conversation you had with a crazy young man who was talking to you about psychotropic drugs, and he was talking about, well, I make up my own definitions of things and my own realities, and he told me to give me an example, and he said, oh, well, bad now means good, man, you know?
And then you said to him, and I thought this was brilliant, you know, you You can say that this word, which represents something objective, means something else now, but that's not philosophy, and that's not truth.
And I thought that was just brilliant.
But he was individually making up those words.
I'm talking about the generally...
It's a perceived definition of rights by just about everyone in the West.
Just about everyone in the West is something people should get through the government.
That's what a right is.
Now, we can say that's the wrong definition.
We've got to rewind 100 years.
That just seems like a lot of work to me.
I'd rather build a new house and dig out an old one and start rebuilding from there.
So I agree with you.
People can't just make up.
But this is the modern definition.
General conception of rights.
I mean, look at the Declaration of Human Rights from the UN, and it's all about stuff that people want that the government has to enforce them receiving.
Well, we have to use the original First Amendment rights, and this is what I'm trying to do, not trying to convince you.
I was always under the notion that you would probably agree with me, but The reason healthcare isn't a right, a right as in free, is because it requires you exploiting somebody.
It requires you exploiting the taxpayer.
It requires you exploiting the medical provider, the insurance company, whatever.
The whole point of a right is that you don't exploit anybody by using it.
If we can have this conversation with people, I know that there's far-left retards who won't listen to this no matter what you say to them.
But what I'm saying, if we talk to the reasonable people and say, you know, no, no, no, you need to understand that you can say that I want, you know, I want this.
I wish it was more affordable.
You could even say, hey, I wish it was free, but you can't say it's a right because that's not the definition of a right.
Now, was you about to say something?
No, go ahead.
Now, in the thing of property rights and you're saying, and the whole point of Isoko is if you own this land now because it's been voluntarily, you know, peacefully Given, you know, traded to you, the government, you know, through property taxes, is using force.
And like you've talked about thousands of times, you know, on your show, they're using force.
Now, if they were to come in and seize your land, that's even more force.
So, yeah, they're violating your rights.
And, you know, that's objectively observable.
That's what they're doing.
So I was just trying to get across the idea that, you know, you don't like the word rights.
And I respect that.
That's perfectly reasonable.
But there is something that I'm talking about, whether what word you want to put on or not, but that is kind of, it's objective and it manifests.
You see what I'm saying?
Yeah, no, I agree.
I think I don't want to sort of continue to beat around where we certainly exist.
It's not a new argument for me.
Like, I made this argument a decade ago in my introduction to philosophy series about rights and so on.
So, look, if you want to continue to use the word rights, that's your right.
Of course, right?
It's just that you just be aware that you have a lot of disassembling to do.
And I try not to use a word that has been so co-opted by the enemy for so long because I just...
I find it's really, really tough.
It's like trying to pull a train off a track.
You know, I'd rather just have a dirt bike or whatever.
So thanks so much for the call.
I appreciate it.
I'm going to move on to the next caller, but I do enjoy these conversations.
And I think I'm certain that we agree about everything that's important.
And it's more of a strategy of better or more effective debating than it is any disagreement on substantials.
Can I say just one more thing and I'll let you go?
Sure.
I just want to say that I've always been kind of like a bookworm and a history buff, but I honestly can say this, that I don't think I've ever had my thinking transformed as much when I started listening to you.
There's nobody like you out there, so keep doing what you're doing, and it's helped me tremendously.
It makes...
Pretty much any kind of debate, much more easy.
Well, I appreciate that, and I agree.
There's no one like me out there, and that's what's so delightful about it all.
So thanks very much.
I really appreciate your call, and I hope we can talk again.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Alright, up next we have Ryan.
Ryan wrote in and said, I have always held the belief that morality is primarily objective without differing much from person to person.
This belief has carried me so far in my brief adult life, but it seemed sound up until recently.
The kidnapping and torturing of the mentally disabled boy in Chicago made me very concerned about the influence and interpretation of morality on each person.
My question is, is morality objective, and if not, what kind of outside factors are powerful enough to change one's moral compass to where kidnapping slash torturing is okay, or the acceptance of this as just kids being kids is okay?
That's from Ryan.
Hi.
Hey Ryan, how you doing?
Hi, how are you doing?
I'm well, I'm well.
That story hit you pretty hard, right?
Yeah, it did.
I thought it was absolutely devastating.
Even before I saw the video, I thought it was ridiculous, just the way people described it.
At first, I didn't even think, I thought it might have been just some kind of exaggeration of the events that happened, that had happened, but then I watched the video and saw what happened.
It was absolutely disgusting.
I could barely, barely watch it.
What was occurring for you emotionally while you were watching it?
Mainly what was occurring for me emotionally was the concern for how we're going to continue almost as a country because we have that whole – and you've talked about it before in previous shows and whatnot.
We have what was sold as a multicultural society.
It came around a century ago, but we have that now.
And what's concerning for me is I did hold the belief that morality is fairly – It's fairly objective, as long as it's within the same culture.
But if we do have such differences within microcultures within our country, could this keep happening?
That's all I was really concerned about.
Could this keep happening because of the state our country is in right now, especially after this election cycle and how split up we are?
Well, yeah, of course.
Of course, it will keep happening.
Most people are susceptible to outside influences.
I mean, that's just the basic reality of the human mind.
We're impressionable.
You know, what language do you end up speaking?
By golly, it's the language you were raised with, right?
I mean, even if your parents have a very thick foreign accent, you will generally end up speaking like your peers, not like your parents.
So we're very susceptible.
And When there are groups that are failing in society, then there are two types of people, I guess three types of people, who have a look at failing communities in societies.
Number one, they don't care.
They don't talk about it, they don't care.
So, fine.
Take them off the map.
Number two, there are people who say, okay, here's the facts that we know.
Right?
There's this, there's that, there's the other.
Some things are within your control, some things are not within your control.
Let's focus on the things that are within your control.
Let's make sure that we have the incentives aligned in the right way so that what is good for you in the moment is also good for your community and good for you all in the long run.
And let's teach you how to be better parents and let's do what we can with the limitations that we have and the knowledge that we have to make your community better.
And those people used to be a lot more common and they're Well, they're not quite as common anymore.
Now, the third category is a group that we all know very, very well.
What they do is they say, oh, wow, you see, the reason you're not doing well, my friends, is because there are these evil people over there, and they're in charge, and they've been running things, and they're exploiting you, and they're stealing from you, and they shoot your children, and they gun you down like dogs, and they hunt you, and they jeer, and they laugh.
And they're grinding you under their heel and they love it.
Those are the people who are grinding you down and keeping you down and you're going to have to fight them because they hate you.
And they'll forever try and keep you down and they'd be keeping you down for hundreds of years or thousands of years.
And they goad and they provoke.
And there are people in the Not doing well communities who reject that and say, hey, hey, hey, you know, don't be pulling your Iago poison into my ear, my friend.
Don't pull a Hamlet's uncle with his father at the poison in the ear.
I don't want to hear that stuff.
I want to know what is practical, what is sensible, what is factual, what I can do.
But then there are other people who...
Usually I think for various traumatic childhood reasons say, yeah, yeah, those people, they're the entire reason we're doing badly.
It's them!
And it doesn't matter what they do.
It doesn't matter what they do.
We'll hate them, they hate us, it's war!
And I don't know when we recognize just how evil this third group of people are.
How harmful, how toxic.
This alliance between the division whisperers and the people hungry to blame others because they've done badly or underachieved relative to their own potential.
Incredibly destructive people.
And we need to push back with the facts.
Now, there's a giant market in Dysfunctional communities.
There's a giant market for blame others.
Blame others.
It's a lot easier to get angry than it is to grow up.
It's a lot easier to attack than it is to build.
It's a lot easier to break than it is to grow.
So, this is the war.
And the war is between those who are bringing facts to dysfunctional communities And between those who are bringing excuses to dysfunctional communities.
Hillary Clinton bought excuses.
And she's not alone in that.
There's lots of people who bring these excuses to black communities, to Hispanic communities, to dysfunctional or under-functioning communities.
They bring excuses and they are cheered by some portion within those communities.
And there are other people like me and many other People are many more prominent people who bring facts.
Who bring facts.
And with facts, you get two things.
With facts, you get two things.
But they don't occur at the same time, which is why it's so tough.
With facts, you get pain and you get hope.
But you get pain first.
And then you get hope later.
You know, like Pandora's box, she opens the box and all these demons fly out and the bottom is a tiny fairy called hope.
With facts, you get pain and you get hope.
But the longer you've lived in lies, the worse the pain is and the more impossible the hope seems.
And I want to bring facts to communities that aren't doing well.
And I want to say, yes, there's race and IQ. We'll figure that out as we go along.
But that's not what we can focus on right now.
We need to focus on right now.
In the black community in particular, is rebuilding the family.
We know that can be done because it's been done before.
As I've mentioned on the show many times, blacks, black families were more stable than white families as recently as 80, 90 years ago.
Blacks raced into the middle class after the Second World War.
Remember, even if the race and IQ statistics are ironclad, can't be changed, whatever, right?
20% of blacks are smarter than the average white.
There's so many who could do well, really well, and they could help their communities through doing that well.
And I'm not talking like affirmative action well or like this...
Young black man who called in saying, well, I want to become a doctor, but everybody wants me to get into politics, basically to get money from my community, from the state.
And I'm talking like mentoring well, like helping people well.
Crime, drug addiction, child abuse.
The coolness of criminality that the single motherhood, a huge single motherhood plus child abuse, plus warrior gene, boom, right there.
It's producing so much harm in the black community.
Now, these are facts.
As far as they can be ascertained.
Are they ironclad?
Are they proven beyond a shadow of a doubt?
Well, they're more real than endless white racism being the explanation for everything, right?
So I desperately want this community to do better.
And the only thing that I know to do as a philosopher, as a caring person, is to tell people the truth.
The greatest act of racism is to withhold the truth from groups.
You can't handle the truth.
I think the black community can handle the truth.
Maybe some, maybe not, but I think the black community can handle the truth.
And there is a lot that can be done to improve things.
And this is why, you know, when I fought against the welfare state my whole adult life, And partly it's out of just seeing what it's done to poor communities.
I mean, I grew up in a multicultural neighborhood and I saw the effects of the welfare state on every race and group that could be conceived of.
I mean, I know, I've seen it, I lived it, I grew up in it.
It's horrifying what it's done.
So, in this battle...
Between those who want to bring solutions and those who want to bring excuses.
Those who want to give you self-ownership and those who want to hijack your willpower to serve their own political needs, their own political agendas, to get your vote.
One group is going to win.
The group who don't care either way, they're not part of the equation.
The group who bring facts and the group who bring resentment, We're fighting.
We're fighting over the future of these communities.
And I'm not just talking about blacks.
I'm talking about everyone who hits their kids, who abuses their kids, who abandons their kids, who dumps their kids in daycare, who neglects their children.
And I'm talking about all of these people.
There is this war between the fact-bringers and the excuse-givers.
Right now the excuse givers have been kicking the fact givers ass for decades, but I think that's beginning to turn around.
And morality is objective and it is universal.
But what can change, as you say, what factors can change one's moral compass to where kidnapping and torturing is okay?
Well, If you tell people that the only reason they're poor, that the only reason they don't have a father, that the only reason there's not a lot of wealth in their community, that the only reason their neighborhoods are so crappy,
that the only reason their education and their schools are so crappy, that the only reason there's drugs, the only reason there's criminality in their community, the only reason there's graffiti, the only reason there's cars up on blocks within 12 minutes being parked somewhere, the only reason for all of this horror Is this particular evil group of people who have exploited and preyed upon and enslaved and raped and murdered your people for hundreds and hundreds of years?
You keep hearing that, you keep repeating that, you keep hearing that, you keep repeating that.
Well, everyone cries when the hero dies.
But if you tell a group of people that they're only wretched because of this endless rows of appropriately white stormtroopers, how many stormtroopers do you see dying in Star Wars movies?
Do you care?
You don't.
Because they're oppressors.
They're evil.
It's like the Nazis.
Or, you know, the new villain, the Russians.
They've been coordinating this one with Hollywood, I'm sure, for a while.
But the dehumanization, this particular group, and we talked about this with the first callers, you know, you're racists, you're Nazis, you're right?
You should see the comments when I do stuff on race, the comments of, I mean, on both sides, I mean, it's not just black, white things, others as well.
Comments are pretty ferocious.
And racism flies both ways.
But we can only meet and resolve these issues or these differences in reality, in reality, in reality with facts.
When we abandon facts, we get violence.
When we abandon reason, we get violence.
When we abandon the argument, we get violence.
And everyone is certain.
So many people are certain now what the problem is, evil whitey, and what the solution is.
No justice, no peace, right?
Lauren Southern was interviewing in the midst of this mayhem that was occurring, Trump's inauguration.
And some guy, I think it was a black guy, turned around and said, well, Malcolm X said an unjust law is no law at all.
Okay, well.
What does that mean to have an unjust law?
Would he be able to answer that question?
What is the category called unjust?
What does it mean?
Is affirmative action an unjust law?
Is giving preferential test results, upping the scores of blacks in entrance to the university, is that unjust?
Is stripping down Asians, is that unjust?
Is the fact that blacks attack whites proportionally far more than whites attack blacks, is that unjust?
I mean, it's just a phrase.
It just means I don't have to obey the rules because I've got this magic sticker called unjust And Malcolm X. And I can combine these two in this magical alchemy that breaks my fear of the rules.
I can smash up Starbucks because Malcolm X said unjust laws are no laws at all.
If you have this kind of...
It's not thinking.
It's an excuse.
I don't have to obey the rules.
Because Malcolm X said unjust laws are no laws at all.
All right.
Where do we go from here?
I'll leave that to you.
Thanks for letting me speechify.
Right, right.
Yeah, no, I totally agree with you that there's that big combination of poor parenting, just all that, and then the street warrior mentality, it all comes together.
And creating this enemy out of the people who took everything and all that, what you were saying, I get that.
They turn them into the bad guys, the stormtroopers.
It's just what gets me is, sure, I can get if they were doing that out of resent, but they were enjoying it in that video.
That was the part that really disturbed me, and I guess you're just right in the fact that you say it so much that eventually it's ground into your head that it's a great, it's a delightful thing that you take out the enemy almost, I guess, is where we're going with that now.
Well, look at Tarantino movies.
I mean, the big giant sadistic fest of Tarantino movies.
I mean, think of Inglorious Basterds.
I mean, they physically tortured this guy.
Well, you see, he's a Nazi, you see.
So you can just...
You can just do it.
Right?
I mean, if the people...
And we've been programmed a lot this way.
The media does this a lot.
The movies in particular.
But it also happens with...
With television shows that...
So-and-so is so evil that you cheer when they're not just killed, but tortured or whatever it is, right?
And there are people who are so evil that what could one do?
Not cheer, but relief if they're not part of the human conversation as much anymore.
And that programming...
I remember thinking about the Boys in the Hood was a movie from some years back, quite a few years now, where these kids were replaying the video.
I think they'd attacked some store owner or whatever, just laughing about it and so on.
I think of Fargo.
And if you don't develop empathy as a child, you don't get it later.
Like if you don't get enough food when you're a kid, you grow up shorter.
Having more food later just makes you fatter, doesn't make you taller.
You can't retrofit empathy, which is why the sort of early childhood stuff is so important.
And I think of Philando Castile and his girlfriend.
There was that video of them smoking joints.
In the car, the car is like this cube of marijuana smoke and there was this kid strapped to this little girl strapped into the backseat looking at the camera like so much stress, so much worry, so much anxiety, so much fear.
Poor kid.
I mean, what's she going to grow up?
What's everything going to be like for her when she grows up with this kind of example in the front seat?
This lack of leadership, this lack of love, care, concern, attachment, connection.
It's basically just blowing marijuana smoke and toxic adulthood into this kid's brain and lungs.
It's horrible.
And this is why...
Like, I don't know.
I don't know if different races get along or not.
I don't know.
I think some...
I think IQs generally get along, more or less, but there's other differences as well.
I don't know.
The data is not great.
The data, the basic facts, are not great with regards to diversity.
But I do know this, that we're much more likely to get along if we're peacefully parented, if we're peacefully raised.
And I view some of the toxic ideology being poured into various communities to be a form of child abuse.
I saw something on Twitter.
Is it just tonight?
I don't know where it was from.
I mean, I know who posted it, but...
And it's this demented teacher who's got...
Like, she's got a projection of Donald Trump on the whiteboard, like some LCD projector or something.
And she's screaming at Donald Trump and she's firing a water pistol at him in front of her class.
In front of her class!
Lady!
Be mental on your own time.
This is not your job.
Your job is to teach them how to think, not watch your demented nonsense with regards to Donald Trump.
So, we can only put better information out on the internet as positively and courageously as possible and hope like hell that people pick up on it.
At least that's my plan.
I'd say that does.
As where we stand right now, that does sound like a solid plan as any.
Good.
Does that help at all?
That does.
I really appreciate the comment about you've got to build up the empathy as a kid or else it just doesn't come later.
That really does make a lot of sense with how a lot of society is right now with all the poor parenting and everything.
I do think that makes a lot of sense.
Or a place where we as a people can start to try and fix that.
Good.
Good.
Okay.
Well, thanks very much for your question.
I really, really appreciate it.
It was a great question.
And feel free to call back anytime.
All right.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Okay, up next we have Michael.
Michael wrote in and said, I find that many of your beliefs are in line with biblical truths, i.e.
marriage, gender roles, rationality, social injustice, etc.
You even accept that religion gives people a sense of purpose and are sympathetic to Christians.
Why are you not a believer in Christ yourself?
That's for Michael.
Hey Michael, how are you doing?
Hello Stefan, how are you?
Well, it's a great question.
I really, really appreciate you bringing that up.
I'm going to guess that you're on the J team?
Yes.
Okay, just checking here.
That's the Jesus team.
I know other people talk about that differently on the internet.
But anyway, did you want to add more to the question or to the comments?
Well, I just find it curious because I know...
In your older videos, you're really against Christianity, and you're an atheist then.
But then, as time went on, you sort of became more sympathetic.
And the way you talk about Jeff Sessions and Mike Pence is really...
It seems like you really understand that they want what's best for the United States.
And I just find it interesting that you also interview Vox Dei and Lord Moncton, and they're Christians, and you agree with them on a lot of things.
So I wonder why you don't agree on this one thing.
If it's one thing like it's an asterisk or something, it's kind of the whole thing in many ways, right?
And there's Jordan Peterson, right?
I mean, who does some brave work standing up to political correctness, and he's informed by religiosity.
So, why am I not a believer in Christ myself?
That's basically what you want to know?
Sure, and if you want, we can talk about what's in the Bible, too, because I love studying the Bible, and I find that you haven't mentioned a lot of things that I'd like to talk about if we could.
We could, we could, but let me just give you the low-down as to your sort of first or central and basic question.
Sure.
My beliefs aren't up to me.
Now, my subjective personal preferences, they're up to me.
I mean, to some degree, right?
I mean, the foods I like have something to do with my palate and my history and all that, but The movies I watch, that's my choice.
The music I listen to, that's my choice.
The exercise I do, that's my choice.
When I work, when I don't work, to some degree, that's my choice.
So there are some things that I can choose.
And that's where my free will exists.
My free will does not extend to metaphysical matters.
My free will does not extend to objective truth statements.
I can't will truth.
I have to passively explore and examine and continue the process of using reason and evidence to approach and hopefully capture the truth, the truth.
So it's not up to me to say, well, why aren't you a believer in Christ yourself?
It's not up to me.
It's not my choice.
I can't will it.
If I could will it, I would not be a philosopher.
The whole philosopher gig is to humble yourself before reason and evidence.
And it's not up to me what I believe in as an objective fact.
That is up to philosophy.
That's up to reason and evidence.
So I don't have that option to say I want to believe.
Now, don't get me wrong.
There are times When it would be absolutely lovely to believe.
This is how I was raised.
I was raised in the bosom of the Protestant church in England.
And my mother, not so religious, but aunts and uncles, yes, we went to church when I was in boarding school.
Church a couple of times a week.
I was in the choir.
And I had my own Bible with Nice little color plates, not very child-appropriate pictures, but anyway.
So yes, I mean, this is the rock upon which my conceptions were built as a child.
So there is a wonderful, I don't want to say seductive because that sounds somewhat sinister, but there's a wonderful pull for me towards religiosity.
It would be like going home again in some ways and I'm perfectly frank about all of that and I have over the years grown to admire Christians in many ways more than atheists and Trump certainly helped push that little fella along because if I had to rely on atheists to help get Trump into office Well,
let's just say there'd be a giant pantsuit standing on the neck of Breitbart right now and other of my friends and companions.
It was the Christians who made that happen.
And Christians have been annoyingly positive and friendly towards me, and it's kind of hard to continue to be annoyed with a group.
Atheists, on the other hand, not quite so much.
And I have found Christians in my conversations to be more positive, more energetic, more More cultured, more accepting of what matters to me.
The atheists, you know, and I've talked about this in many shows, why atheism sucks or why atheists suck and so on.
I mean, they're a bunch of state-sucking nihilistic toadies to a large degree.
Not all.
Not all atheists are like that, but enough that it's kind of a pattern.
Yes, there were some pretty women in the march too, but, you know, we go with the odds.
So...
The Christians I admire, and I admire in many ways.
I admire the Christians because we get to the same place.
Limited government, free will, moral responsibility, objective ethics.
That's the stuff that matters to me.
Other people come to that by different roads.
Roads that don't follow philosophical rigor.
But I would rather have people who hold those beliefs for the wrong reasons than the nihilism and socialism and leftism of the skeptical community and science worship as well.
I mean, science, you know, I've had lots of people comment, science is just a new religion and so on.
And I've got a podcast, I don't know whether it was ever published or not, Mike Adobe, called Scientism, which is how people do view science.
Not science as a methodology, but modern government science as institutions that have questionable motives for what it is that they proselytize and what it is that they talk about and global warming and a bunch of other stuff as well.
Right, because they start with the conclusion and then try to find facts to prove it.
Well, they start with the money.
They start with what's going to get me the money.
You know, the scientists are humans, they respond to incentive just like everyone else.
You know, it's funny, you know, because people will say, ah, yes.
Yes, if you give women welfare, they'll just have children because they get more money.
And it's like, well, okay, we can accept not all, but, you know, we can accept that corrupts things a lot of times.
But if you say, well, if governments pay scientists for particular conclusions, they're magically going to get a lot of those conclusions.
It's like, no, that's totally different.
It's like, no, it's really not.
It's human beings responding to incentives.
So, the beauty of free will, objective ethics, limited government, and so on, is nestled deep in the heart of Christ and his followers.
And I said, I gave myself a blood oath.
I pinky swore myself, included my toes.
At the beginning of all of this, I said, what's going to make what I do different?
And what's going to make what I do different is I'm not going to stop.
There is going to be no place where I say, well, this new evidence, to hell with it.
It doesn't go with my preconceptions.
And from where I started with Christianity to where I am with Christianity is the result of significant evidence.
Who is fighting?
The left.
It's not the atheists.
The Christians are fighting the left.
What is the great danger to everything I value and hold dear?
The left.
Sorry to interrupt.
It's not as simple as the enemy of my enemy is my friend and I'll lie down.
No, it's genuine affection and respect.
Who is fighting political correctness?
Who is fighting creeping Islamization?
It's not the atheists.
It's not the feminists.
It's not the secularists.
It's the Christians.
It's the Christians.
And that's inescapable to me.
It's inescapable to me.
And so, fellow travelers, absolutely.
Do we share a massive amount of ethics and politics that I did not suspect before?
See, remember, it's not like you would know this, and I'll...
Be done in a sec, so thanks for your patience.
But when I grew up, I came to atheism to some degree through objectivism.
So all the atheists I met, small government people.
It kind of skewed my whole perception of the atheist community.
All these small government people.
That, I mean, I only knew really the atheist objectivists.
And...
When I got older, of course, I met the socialist atheist, the Marxist atheist, the nihilist atheist, the secular atheist, and so on.
But atheism, for me, meant small government and a skepticism of all concepts, whether it was God or government, as existing.
Metaphysically, provable epistemologically.
So, for me, atheism and small government joined at the hip.
They were gigantic.
Two sides of the same coin.
Same methodology gets you to both places.
It wasn't until I got into this show and doing this kind of public conversation that I had more and more conversations with atheists.
And I began to say, ooh, maybe my initial sample size was not exactly representative of the entire atheist community because there seemed to be a lot of crazy lefties out here.
And also just not Not courageous.
Not courageous.
And, you know, I respect the fact that cross-Christians nurturing their soul to the afterlife, there are more important things than what's happening right now.
Right?
And then, you know...
As the evidence began to accumulate that my initial view of atheists may not be extendable to new atheists, you know, I was reading, I mean, my Dennett, my Dawkins, my Hitchens, and so on, and the fact that Hitchens was a supporter of the Iraq War, ex- Marxist and so on, and the fact that Richard Dawkins doesn't seem to have any problem with big government as long as it pays his exorbitant philosopher king scientist salary.
It just, you know, seemed to be a problem.
And of course, from objectivism, I moved to libertarianism, where there are some atheists, but again, there are atheists who are small government.
But as I began to move beyond the objectivist libertarian world into more and more atheist Groups, as I sort of met through the show, I'm like, ooh, maybe that was an outlier.
And you know what?
I better just get the facts.
And then I looked up the data, and I examined the data, and I read the surveys, and I read the studies, and I talked to the experts, and I'm like, oh, damn, I think we found us a lefty enclave.
And so that was sort of my particular journey.
And in Siding with just the atheists and the atheism that I had against the Christians, which I continue to apologize for and will until I draw my last breath and find out for sure what's going on.
But I thought that I was siding with reason and evidence and philosophy against superstition.
But the state is by far the most dangerous superstition, far more dangerous than anything Christians have conceived of in thousands of years.
And...
That's where the real danger lies, in the leftist nihilistic left, atheist community.
That, to me, is where the grave danger is.
And they're just not able to wake up and do what is necessary to save the West, and saving the West is the key.
And what I share with the Christians is far more in these times of great peril.
You know, before I first started the show, I thought...
You know, okay, well, we've got some work to do, but by golly, we've got all the time in the world, so we'll do multi-generational change, peaceful parenting, and so on.
And then massive immigration, demographics, the demographic winter, we can't possibly continue.
It's much shorter than we think.
That changes.
That changes things.
And everybody who goes through that, if you haven't watched the demographic winter stuff, you just need to check out birth rates and do some basic math.
You can do it for yourself.
It's not long to go.
And also, it didn't have any luck appealing to Atheists with reason and evidence, kind of funny.
When you think about it, kind of funny, and yet kind of not.
That if you wanted to take down the West, implanting lefty atheism is a wonderful way to do it.
And these are just the facts.
So I'm not going to argue with something that's been that beneficial.
Again, philosophically speaking, you know, you and I would diverge on metaphysics and particularly study of knowledge epistemology.
But Given how much we have in common when it comes to free will, universal ethics, personal responsibility, and the goal of speaking truth to power to make the world a better place, I can't view us as anything but companions in this road and this goal and in these what could very well be the end times of Western civilization and what will be unless we act.
So, you know, I hope I've answered the question about Why it's not up to me.
If he manifests, I have to take that as evidence.
Until he does, I have to go with the objective reason and evidence.
There's so many things I'd love to believe.
I just can't will it.
That's not the methodology.
And if I do take that methodology and throw it aside, this is not the show anymore.
This is not the same show.
But thank you very much for the call.
Let's move on to the next caller.
Thanks, man.
All right.
Well, thank you for listening.
Okay, up next we have Jeffrey.
Jeffrey wrote in and said, I'm a relatively new listener, and over the last couple of months I've heard you make what sound like disparaging remarks about stepping into a relationship with a woman who already has children, or raising another man's children.
However, I also never heard you say never to do that, since you often ask people, why didn't you call me sooner?
I'm asking now, as I'm about to go on my first date with a woman who has two children, aged one and three.
She's 32, and divorced her husband after he cheated on her.
That's from Jeffrey.
And how old are you?
36.
36, alright.
How did you meet this woman?
Let's call her Sally.
How did you meet Sally?
Online.
Although, apparently she's not interested in a date too, so that part's kind of moot.
Oh, you went on the date?
Yeah, that was last night.
And she doesn't want to go on a second date?
No.
Wow, do you know why?
She said she didn't think that we had that much in common, and I was like, okay.
The only thing that we talked about that we disagreed on, really, that during the conversation was...
She talked about how she hates public speaking, and I said I love it.
And everything else, it was great conversation, very relaxed and enjoyable.
But whatever, I'm not going to, you know, if she's not interested, she's not interested, right?
Did you talk politics at all?
Yep.
And how did that go?
Great.
How so?
Well, we're both pretty much agreed on everything.
And before we met, I mean, she was a lot more enthusiastic than I was before we met.
You know, she was the first one that messaged me.
And she asked me if we wanted to get together.
But I don't know.
Well, do you know much about her history?
When did she get divorced?
She got a one-year-old.
I assume it wasn't that too long ago, right?
She was...
She had just found out she was pregnant with her second child when he cheated on her the second time and she kicked him out.
So she was only a few weeks pregnant.
So is she divorced yet or in the process?
She's fully divorced.
It was two years ago.
Two years ago?
Two years ago.
Hang on.
I'm working on the math here.
She's got a one-year-old child, right?
Yeah.
So maybe a little shy of two years.
Because she was only 10 weeks pregnant when she kicked him out and then they started divorce proceedings.
So he had cheated on her once before?
Yeah.
Well, how much money do you make?
$70,000.
All right.
That's pretty good.
Pretty good, right?
Yeah, it's not bad.
I mean, I'm a homeowner, full-time job, do freelance work as well.
Yeah.
Now, when she says she found out that she was pregnant, I'm not sure what that means.
Does that mean she doesn't know how you get pregnant?
I mean, this was her second child.
She knows the steps that you need to take to get pregnant.
So how did she...
Was she not on the pill?
I mean, how did she get pregnant?
Well, I think they were planning on having a second child.
Oh, so he cheated on her once.
Sorry, he cheated on her once, and then she wanted to have another child with him.
He cheated on her before they had their first child.
Right.
Okay.
And then she decided to just give them a second chance, didn't want to be a divorce statistic.
And so that happened before they had any children.
And then things were good for a couple of years as far as she knew.
And then she found out about the second one just after she, I guess, confirmed that she was pregnant for the second time.
And what would you rate her looks, one to ten?
Probably a seven.
And yours?
About the seven as well.
Why would you be interested in a woman with kids?
Well, it wouldn't be my first choice, but...
Well, pickings have been slim lately, and...
Why are they slim?
Also...
Is it because you're like your age, like finding a woman who's not attached and all of that at your age since you're in your 30s?
Is that what you mean?
Yeah, well, and I mean, I'm a Christian, so I have to, I will only date a Christian girl.
Right.
And then beyond that, there's, you know...
Hasn't she sinned, though, by getting divorced?
Let what God has put together, let no man tear asunder?
I mean, wasn't she supposed in for better and for worse, in sickness and in health?
Aren't you supposed to stay together?
Maybe I'm missing something.
Well, Jesus said unless there's marital unfaithfulness.
Oh, okay, okay.
So he broke the marriage covenant, so she's free.
Alright.
Do you want to settle down and have kids and all that?
Absolutely.
Why did you wait so long?
Well, I was engaged when I was 24 to seem like a great girl who I'd known for a couple years.
And while we were engaged, she cheated on me.
And so then I broke things off there and Then I was, yeah.
And then I've dated on and off since then.
My last year's relationship actually was a major struggle and it was just theological differences that caused stress.
Right.
Just differences in belief.
And this girl actually, you know, You know, we completely aligned there.
So, that made it.
Maybe.
What were the theological differences you had with the other girl?
Well, I'm a Calvinist, and she hated that.
Okay, okay.
So, yeah, single mom is more in line with your beliefs than somebody who's not a Calvinist, is that right?
Well, someone who agrees saturiologically with me is going to, at least that's one area where we're going to agree, right?
Okay, all right.
Well, look, I mean, you know, you say, well, you've never said to people, don't do it.
I mean, there's no point giving orders to people.
That's not philosophy, right?
But when it comes to trying to raise another man's children, ew, ew.
I hate to put it, you know, I wish I could put it more in a more sophisticated manner, but what the hell's wrong with your genes?
You know, like, you have your own damn children.
You know, when you raise some other guy's kids, pour all your resources into some other guy's kids, is the ex-husband still floating around?
Is he still involved?
Yeah.
Yeah, so he's going to hate you, and he's going to have the kids for a while, and he may turn the kids against you, and like, oh my god, what a nightmare.
That's true.
I mean, good lord.
What a mess.
What a nightmare.
And you're gonna have these kids now, you know, before they're five, apparently you can do some work with them.
But you know, they're gonna grow up, they're gonna know the truth.
And you know what they're gonna say to you every other day?
Oh yeah?
You're not my real dad.
Yeah, you're not my real dad, you know?
And man, I mean, why?
Why would you want that?
And if you want your own kids, are you going to try and knit them into this blended family situation?
Well, I assume so.
She said she wanted four kids, so there's room for two more.
Okay.
So you're going to have two kids who are genetically disparate, which could mean IQ differences, it could mean significant personality differences.
I mean, it's complicated, to put it mildly, right?
Is she getting child support alimony from her ex?
I'm not aware.
I haven't talked about that.
Does she work?
She does.
And what does she do with her children while she's working?
They go to daycare.
Right.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that, and I'm really sorry for the children.
How many hours a week do you think they're in daycare?
You may not have gone through all of this.
I'm just wondering, does she work full-time?
She works four days.
No, the kids are in daycare five days a week, so basically eight hours a day, probably 40 hours a week.
Right.
So you know the fact that children who are in daycare for more than 20 hours a week experience exactly the same symptoms as maternal abandonment, right?
So the children are going through all the same symptoms as if she dumped them by the side of the road.
That is a giant mess waiting to happen, particularly in the teenage years.
They're getting socialized by their peers.
They're getting socialized or controlled by low-rent people who can't get a better job than working in a daycare.
She's not a mom.
She's a minder.
Is she breastfeeding?
I don't know.
Seems unlikely.
Seems unlikely.
So that's going to cost some IQ points.
Yeah.
I'm telling you.
Thank heavens she doesn't want to go on another date with you.
And you listen, Jeff, you could be just too functional for her.
Let me tell you something.
There's this weird thing.
I only know this around women because I don't date men, never did.
But you may easily be too functional for her.
You may easily be too healthy for her.
I mean, I remember going on a couple of dates or asking a couple of women out and we would go out.
And they're just strange.
I mean, they seem nice enough, first time we met, you know, attractive women and all that.
But just odd.
And quirky.
And they were just these weird eruptions of minor nuttiness.
And that's it for me.
You know, if you can't even manage your first date without some eruption of crazy town, I mean, forget it.
I don't want to dig any kind of deeper.
But...
You'd hear about these men that these women had dated.
They would talk about, you know, this is another thing.
If you're going to talk to me about your past boyfriends on the first date, you're not getting a second to save your life.
But they'd say, oh, this guy ran up $17,000 in credit card debt for me.
And this guy was, you know, turned out to be into drugs.
And it's like, oh, my God.
What do we have in common?
Now, sadly, you guys both have a history of cheating partners, right?
I mean, you were in your 24, and she was in her late 20s, early 30s, I guess.
So there is that, but she had a man who was sleeping around while he was trying to impregnate his wife after he'd been caught once already.
And I assume she'd issued some kind of ultimatum, like, if you do this again, we're done, right?
I assume so.
So this is the kind of gene pool you could have waded into because these children have been half made by a guy who thinks it's a great idea to have an affair while he's trying to impregnate his wife after he's already been caught and received an ultimatum.
That is not top shelf IQ material.
And so you've got these kids, well, let's just say they might have a few bits of undertow when it comes to the old IQ bell curve, and they're being dumped in daycare 40 hours a week.
Land mine.
Land mine.
Actually, two.
No, three.
Actually, four.
One landmine is trailing after you, staring at you resentfully because you're banging the mother of his children.
Why?
Why would you want to get involved in this?
Like, why is this even on the table?
Why is this even an option?
I mean, pickings may be slim, but not that slim, really?
Really?
Sorry, you said pickings may be slim, but what?
But not that slim, really?
Like, it can't be that slim.
I mean, unless you have like a third nose growing out of your forehead...
You can't be that slim.
You're a good looking guy and you make good coins.
Why would you be floating around this trailer park tabloid story waiting to happen?
Yes, I thought I would see what happened there.
There were She definitely was one of those cases where she definitely looked better in pictures, which is often, right?
That's also known as the internet.
Yes.
Although, you know, not always.
But...
Wait, go ahead.
And, yeah, there's just...
I don't know.
It has been a while.
So...
Well, sure.
No, I get that.
I get that.
I mean, if it's been a while since you've driven a car, that doesn't mean you want one that's going to blow up, right?
It's still better to not drive.
But because here's the thing, too, right?
I mean, if she's a responsible mom, she's not going to let you spend much time around her kids until you get really serious, right?
Because she doesn't want her kids bonding with you and then you just vanish, right?
So what that means is that you're really not going to have much of a chance to see how the family operates, how the family runs, in any kind of consistent way.
You don't know what her parenting's going to be like.
You don't know what her discipline's going to be like.
If there is any, I don't know.
Like, you don't know.
And the kids are going to be on their best behavior if they're at all interested in having you as another provider or father figure or whatever.
So, you know, you're not really going to get a chance for much of a test drive before you get really serious.
And then once you're serious and you start to get a relationship with the kids, you kind of get embedded, right?
Kids are like this amber that flows over the bachelor mosquito until you're...
Ass gets drilled into to make a T-Rex in 200 million years.
I don't know.
I may be confusing my analogies here.
But no, it's...
I mean, it's a mess.
It's a mess.
I mean, have your own kids, you know?
So maybe you've got to date a woman who's not quite as attractive.
Or maybe you have to date a woman where there's theological differences.
But you don't have some creepy ex floating around who doesn't sound like the sharpest tool in the shed.
And you don't have kids who are traumatized from daycare.
And you don't have...
Like, I mean...
Come on.
Don't.
Don't do that.
I'm not ordering you.
Obviously, I can't, and it makes no obvious to my opinions on the internet, but I think you've got to hold yourself to a bit of a higher standard than this mess, in my opinion.
If you listen to this show in particular, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, fair enough.
I just...
Yeah, like I said, I hadn't heard you say outright no, but then, yeah, you did say...
I don't tell people what to do.
That's not what philosophy is all about.
Choices and options and perspectives.
I make arguments.
I don't override free will.
Not that I even could.
It's a recognition that you can't.
View this as a bullet dodged and view this as a compliment.
If a woman doesn't want to be with you and the last guy she was with Yeah, make good money.
Yeah, I'm single.
I'm unattached.
Make good money.
And I'm a good looking guy.
I'm unattached.
I don't know any alimony, child support to other people.
I'm a nice guy.
I listen to a philosophy show.
I'm into peaceful parenting.
I guess I'm just not your type, am I? Maybe if I had tattoos, swastikas, and was banging some other, was banging your sister when you met, maybe you'd be all over me.
But yeah, I consider this a compliment.
That's how I would take it.
But yeah, I mean, if I were in your shoes, the moment I see kids, I'm swiping left or whatever the hell you do on these things.
Right.
Yeah.
I agree.
I definitely can relate to what you said about how you've had girls that will disqualify themselves from you because they're too messed up and I've had that before.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, no, they're looking for something way kinkier than I could bring to the table.
They're looking for something way more self-destructive than I could conceive of bringing to the table.
And, yeah, I mean, the first couple of times this happened, I'm like, wow, I can't imagine why they...
I can't fathom why anybody doesn't want to date me, but that's just my particular perspective.
But if you're like, wow, that's odd, you know, they didn't seem to be that successful themselves, yet somehow I don't seem to be able to...
Right.
They don't want their crazies showing up against my sane, because then they'd actually have to change what they think and how they live.
So, no, they want to stay in the underworld of dysfunction and all that, and I'm not there.
So, moving along.
Moving along.
Yeah, I'd stay clear of that kind of stuff.
And if it means you've got to compromise in other areas, so be it.
It's a better choice to make.
Okay.
You'll be a better father to your own kids anyway, in my humble opinion.
I mean, just biologically, there's a bond, there's a bond, there's a bond.
It doesn't mean you can't be a good blah, blah, blah.
You know, I get all the comments.
Yes, you can be a good father to kids that aren't your own.
I just think it, you know, I'm into evolution and biology I think there may be a tiny little bit of an edge if they're actually the fruits of your own loins.
You know, that's a DNA thing.
But anyway, so I hope that helps.
Thanks so much for calling in.
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