Jan. 17, 2017 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
37:20
3561 Enemy Of The State | Iben Thranholm and Stefan Molyneux
Danish Journalist Iben Thranholm was recently branded as a pro-Kremlin Russian propagandist and included on the European Union East StratCom Task Force blacklist for her criticism of European immigration policy.Iben Thranholm is one of Denmark’s most widely read columnists and is a former editor and radio host at the Danish Broadcasting Corporation. Thranholm has traveled extensively in the Middle East, Italy, the United States and Russia to carry out research and interviews. She has been awarded for her investigative research into Danish media coverage of religious issues.Article: New Tool Against Political Opponentshttps://www.rt.com/news/373697-danish-journalist-eu-russia/For more from Iben Thranholm, please go to:https://www.rt.com/op-edge/authors/iben-thranholm/http://russia-insider.com/en/users/iben-thranholmFreedomain Radio is 100% funded by viewers like you. Please support the show by signing up for a monthly subscription or making a one time donation at: http://www.freedomainradio.com/donate
Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Free Domain Radio, back with a good friend, Iben Thranholm.
She has gotten on a list.
You know, I just did this presentation on McCarthyism, and the myth of McCarthyism appears to be taking some real shape in Europe.
So, Iben, what has been happening recently?
Well, a few weeks ago, a member of the parliament called me.
She's from the right-wing party, and she called me and she said, well, are you aware that you are on a list?
It is an EU task force called e-Stratcom who made a list with articles and with journalists that they think are spreading Russian disinformation, meaning that I was labeled as a pro-Russian propagandist.
And I said, are you kidding me?
I said, I was really, you know, I was standing up.
I had to sit down on a chair because I was so surprised and shocked.
And she said, no, you're on this list and I need to ask you, what kind of relationship do you have with Kremlin?
I said, you're really kidding me now.
I said, no, she said, I need to know if you were paid by the Russians to write articles.
I said, come on.
I mean, there is no such relationship between me and Kremlin.
I mean, whenever I've been to Russia doing research, it has been on my own initiative because I thought it was interesting because I'm a theologian.
I wanted to do research on the Christian revival and so on.
So I said, I have paid everything myself.
The Israelis paid for me because they wanted me to do some programs.
I contacted Russia Today to become an op-ed writer and they accepted it and said, well, let's see how it goes.
And if people like your articles, you can be part of the staff, which is all independent journalists who are writing for them.
And since people like my articles, you know, I continue to contribute.
And that's my relationship with Russia.
Since I'm on this list, it's just something they have interpreted.
They never called me.
They never emailed me.
They never did anything to contact me and say, hey, what's going on?
I mean, we have a suspicion that you're working for the Russians.
Is that true?
They never did anything to investigate to have proof or evidence that there is such a relationship between me and the Kremlin.
Yet, it says on their website that this is a typical example of a Kremlin narrative.
It means that I'm actually working for the Russians as a person that tries to destabilize the EU, spreading disinformation.
So this is my situation now and, you know, there has been an outcry by other pundits and commentators and other journalists here in Denmark.
They all supported me and they have written a lot of, you know, pieces in the newspaper.
There has been a huge debate on social media.
Yesterday there was a letter in one of our biggest newspapers where 28 commentators have signed a letter and they're really criticizing the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
He had not replied.
He had not done anything to come out and say, well, I think this was a mistake.
Nobody should be afraid to exercise their right to freedom of speech and so on.
He's just silent.
So it means...
And he stated...
Last week in the parliament, when this member of the parliament that contacted me first, she asked for a consultation with him, which is a public thing.
And he said, no, I think it's completely correct that Ibn Trenholm is still listed as a pro-Russian propagandist.
And she was just shocked.
I mean, it is filmed.
You can watch it on a video.
And you see that he's completely...
I mean, he doesn't really understand the problem that this is really going in the wrong direction to put people on a list.
He's just completely cold.
And so far, he has not been asked by any of the mainstream media to give a comment.
I also think that's quite alarming that none of the mainstream media has demanded that he should come out and comment on this.
So it means basically that many mainstream media here in Denmark are just closing their eyes.
They just, you know, don't want to understand what's going on or maybe they agree with him because I think one of the reasons why that quite a lot of other pundits and politicians did not support me is because they think that I have the wrong opinions.
And I think we are going in this direction where you need to have If you have certain opinions to be protected by your government, if you don't have the right opinions like I don't have because I'm a Christian and I like Russia, I guess that is the worst combination of all, then you are in trouble and you will not be protected by your government.
And yeah, of course, I can still say what I want.
I have freedom of speech, but for how long?
And like the member of the parliament, Maria Krav, she's called, I asked her, what kind of consequences could this have for me?
And she said, it's always a political decision.
So it means, in case of war, or if the conflict with Russia is escalating any further, nobody knows what a list like this would be used for.
They have the legal right to detain me if there's going to be a war with Russia, because...
Then I would be seen as an enemy of the state, spreading information from the enemy.
So right now, it's maybe not very harmful, but who knows what the world looks like in three months?
You never know.
Well, I think it has a lot to do with just this idea of discrediting.
So when you have opinions that other people find problematic or goes against a particular narrative that they like, They're always grasping at straws to find a way to magically wave your opinions away or your arguments away without actually having to bother examining them or trying to figure out what is going on.
Viewership is crashing, whose trustworthiness is, I don't know where it is in Denmark, but over here in North America, it's cratering.
I mean, there's just no trust.
I think people trust the Congress in America more than they trust the mainstream media at the moment.
And so they have a problem in that I think that the really honest and courageous information provision is coming from the alternative media.
And what does the government do with that?
Well, they need to find some way that people can say, oh, Iban, you know, she's just a ha, you know, and then whatever they can insert there, then people can just wave away your arguments and your evidence without actually having to examine them.
But you're right, it is a very slippery slope.
Who knows where this information is going to be used?
And who on earth can imagine that it's the government's job to police articles or that it is even remotely fair for the government to encircle you in an accusation with no chance to respond with any counter-arguments of your own or any facts or evidence?
Yeah, but I'm not even an alternative media.
I'm just an independent, single journalist.
And I feel very vulnerable because who's going to support me?
I don't have an editor.
I don't have a political party behind me.
I'm just a single individual.
So who's going to protect me?
I mean, if my government and EU doesn't want to protect me and they can accuse me without evidence of being a Russian agent, I mean, where is this heading?
And I also think that it's quite an irony that we have been living in an age of relativism and we're being told that there is no such things as the truth.
The truth doesn't exist.
And now the same people who told this truth, you know, they are suddenly the truth tellers and they are putting on a higher authority to tell what is false and what is right.
And I think that now there is a rule.
I mean, if they claim that something is false, you can be certain it's true.
But, I mean, everybody's so confused about what is false and what is right.
I mean, and in an age of relativism, it's really a big irony right now that we are fighting for truth.
And who knows what is the truth anymore?
Because people are so enabled to discern the truth because of relativism.
So that's a new problem.
So it means that people are very easily manipulated.
And because they're confused, they don't really know how to discern the truth because they have no moral grounds to stand on.
Because we have no religion, we have no philosophy, we have nothing, we just have my own feelings.
What do I feel like?
This is what we have been taught for decades now.
So it's very, very easy to manipulate things.
People that have been taught there is no truth and to come and just then tell them this is the truth.
And now for me, I mean, I also think now everybody says, I mean, the political elite and all those truth tellers that are screaming fake news is They are all against Russia.
So something must be very good about Russia because they're all against it.
So for me now, it is the rule.
When they say something is fake, it's bad, it's dangerous, well, you should look in that direction because it might be the truth.
So you really need to have more compass.
And it's interesting also because the content of my article that I got listed for, for me, that's even more interesting because I was claiming that Europe has lost its moral compass, and especially our leaders, because they can't distinguish between good and evil anymore.
And that's why we have this chaos with all the immigration policies.
And they're actually protecting the perpetrator, not the victim.
We see that every time there has been a terror attack, they're trying to protect the perpetrator.
I mean, when there was this attack on the Christmas market in Berlin, this Christmas, I heard Angela Merkel, she said, let's hope it's not a refugee.
I mean, she was more concerned about the perpetrator, the criminals.
I think that's very telling and it is just part of it.
But I was criticizing the EU leaders that they have turned their back on Christianity because it means that we have no way to distinguish between good and evil anymore.
They have, for decades, they have said, let's separate religion and state.
And now they're using, actually, Christian arguments to say, let's have compassion with those people.
We should be good Christians and things like that.
So they're actually like Judas.
They are traitors.
I mean, they're using Christianity, using Christian arguments to destroy the Christian culture.
So that was what I wrote.
So if this is Russian propaganda or I should be labeled or branded as enemy of state, Because I'm pointing to the lack of Christianity as the reason for this chaos.
Then they have made Christianity their enemy.
So, I mean, this attack on me is actually an attack on Christianity.
And I think very few people have understood yet the deeper meaning of this.
Attacking their own...
It's kind of a suicide.
They actually claim that Christianity or Christian thinking, Christian thoughts, Christian interpretations are bad stuff.
I mean, it's just like the enemy of the state.
And it says a lot about Europe and why we're in this deep crisis.
So I think there are a lot of Of things in this attack on me.
Actually, I don't see it's only attack on me.
It is an attack on Europe's own culture.
And that is the sad thing about it.
Well, there's a lot of what you said.
The couple of points that come to mind is that first, I encountered really toxic relativism when I was in university, particularly in graduate school.
And my experience even was that relativism is an argument not for no truth, but for assertion to be considered valid without argument or evidence.
It is actually a form of faith insofar as, of course, there's no objective proof for a Christian deity or any other deity.
It's a matter of faith to believe.
And with relativism, what they do is they're not trying to say there's no such thing as truth, which is a self-contradictory statement.
You know, is it true that there's no such thing as truth and so on?
What they are trying to do, though, is to be able to create a space where they can put forward their assertions without the requirement for evidence.
And the end result is these kinds of accusations against you.
So it's around knocking down standards of proof.
It's not about trying to say there's no such thing as truth.
The second thing that has always troubled me Is that in the past, when I was younger, a lot of the academics, the intellectuals, and the media had a very soft spot for Russia, back when Russia was a totalitarian, communistic dictatorship.
Now that Russia has become more nationalistic, now that the Russian leaders seem to advocate for the interest of Russians over the interests of those overseas, and in particular, now that Russia has returned to its Christian roots, now Russia has become an enemy.
And this to me is because a lot of atheists are on the left.
I call them state-theists.
They worship the state instead of a deity, which is far more toxic than anything that could be imagined in religion.
And when Russia was socialist, communist, atheist, and then a lot of the people on the left were very favorable towards it, now that it is more free than it was under Stalin and Brezhnev and so on, now they seem to have a great hostility.
Although the Russians are doing much better than they did under communism, they have a special hostility towards Russia now, and that is something that is extremely revealing and, of course, deeply troubling.
Yes, I mean you really hit the point here because this is exactly the deeper reason for the conflict between East and West and we have discussed this before.
And keep in mind that communism was a Western idea.
It was not a Russian idea.
So it comes from the West.
And now it is 2017.
It's exactly 100 years ago since we had the Russian Revolution.
And now we see...
I mean, I was in a monastery some months ago in Moscow, and they said to me, be aware, they said, what's happening in the West now, the way they are treating Christians, the way they talk about Christianity, is exactly the same atmosphere as before the Russian Revolution.
It's exactly the same.
We see, it's very similar.
And now this, I mean, like, they wanted to remove the Tsar because he was God's representative on earth.
And now EU wants to, you know, trace out any Christian roots there.
So it's sort of the same process.
And I think that communism really didn't die or the spirit of communism when the Soviet Union collapsed.
I think this spirit just escaped to the West and found a new disguise, which is now freedom, freedom of speech, human rights, all these things.
I mean, they are becoming more and more totalitarian.
And why?
Because they lack the Christian fundament.
Because now the state is God.
And we have seen that throughout the 20th century, how dangerous it is when the state...
You know, decides who's worthy of living and who's not.
Who has the right opinions?
Who doesn't have the right opinions?
Because this is exactly what's going on in the West now with the political correctness.
And people, it's very difficult for people to discover it because we are seduced by all these freedom concepts.
So it looks so nice on the surface and it looks so peaceful and so right, but it's not.
And this listing that EU has now started with this task force is just one of the examples that it's going in the wrong direction because this is exactly the same thing that the KGB did.
I mean, they were listing people who disagreed with the political elite.
And then they are blaming Russia and say, oh, it's because we need to be cautious with the Russians because they're trying to You hackers are trying to destroy our democracy.
I mean, the Danish Minister of Defense the other day, he said, it's very, very serious.
Russia is ready to hack our hospitals and destroy our democracy.
And if it wasn't because it is actually very dangerous to say things like that right now, I would just laugh it off.
It's just a complete joke.
I mean, nobody wants to attack Denmark.
It's just crazy.
But these...
Communist idea, coming back to your point, is now alive and kicking in the West.
They just have a different disguise.
So I think the reason why these leaders, they're becoming more and more totalitarian, using under the label of being democratic, they're becoming more and more undemocratic.
It's because they have lost the spiritual foundation.
Actually, the founder of EU, Robert Schumann, he said, If democracy is not Christian, it will not exist anymore.
It will break down, he said.
He said that.
So his idea was actually, I mean, his idea with the whole EU came from a Christian inspiration, because after the Second World War, he didn't want Germany and France to be Risking a new war.
So he wanted those two countries to cooperate.
He was very Catholic.
He went to mass every day and he was a very prayerful man.
So it was a kind of Christian inspiration.
And if he saw what's going on today in the EU, he would turn in his grace because now it has become a body that is against Christianity.
I mean, they did not want to mention Christianity in the EU treaty in 1992.
And ever since that, EU has become more and more anti-Christian and doesn't want to recognize Europe's Christian heritage.
And if there is no such thing as Christianity in Europe, there is only the state left, or very nationalistic movements which are becoming extremists.
So you need to have this Christian spiritual foundation to have a sound and healthy society.
And when that's lost, like it is, You will see Europe, even though it calls itself democratic, it would be more and more totalitarian.
And I think these people have been stealing, they're stealing democracy, because the true democracy, in Europe at least, is based on Christianity.
And now they're trying to redefine it.
So I think those people are actually trying to steal what is the true Europe.
So there should be a resistance movement.
And we know that a lot of people already We're good to go.
Would also make the franc sit or get out of the EU because then EU is collapsing and that would be a blessing for all of Europe so we can start to build up the authentic Europe again.
Well of course Russia is an example of a society that has not Subjugated to a supranational bureaucratic organization with all of its choking rules and ridiculous requirements.
And Russia stands as an example where people can look and say, okay, well, there's a country that's not subject to one of these supranational groups, and how's it doing relative to my country?
And so because it stands as an example of the wisdom of not being part of one of these larger It does stand as something that needs to be attacked by all the bureaucrats feasting on the extra layers of bureaucracy.
And I think the other thing that is true as well, in a moral society, those who are condemned are usually worthy of scorn.
But as a society becomes more corrupt, those who are condemned are usually worthy of respect and investigation And it seems pretty clear to me now that there are two unprotected groups in society where everybody feels pretty ready, willing, and able to heap endless scorn, and white males and Christians are generally among those two groups, and they are in many ways, certainly Christians, the most persecuted groups around the world.
And there is this terrible idea, or terrifying idea, at least for me, That if you don't cause any trouble, you're going to be in the targets.
And those who are willing to cause the most trouble to the states are the ones who get the most concessions.
And this topsy-turvy world where now being a good person means that you're targeted is something that is going to, I think, significantly delegitimize the states and their legal apparatus.
And hopefully that will lead to a dissolution of the EU and other supranational organizations which are choking the very life and history out of Europe.
Yeah, but I don't think it's going to be without combat or, you know, maybe even war.
Look at what is going on right now in the U.S. with Trump.
Like they tried to undermine him and the claim that he has disclosed ties to Russia.
This is the new political strategy or the new political tool.
If you want to undermine your opponent or to destroy him, you just have to prove that he has some kind of relationship with Russia.
But you know, I am kind of optimistic because I get a lot of messages, a lot of feedback from all around the world right now telling me, people write to me and say, you're right, Russia is not that enemy as they say it is.
We see right now that this is not true and Russia stands for something good.
I mean, they have good moral values and actually I think it is thanks to the Russians that we not already have the First World War, because there were many occasions where the West were really provoking Russia, where they could have started a war, like when first this airplane got shot down in Turkey and with their ambassador that got assassinated.
Lately, there were a lot of occasions where Russia could have been striking back, but did not.
Because Putin is very reasonable and he doesn't want war.
So I think more and more people, they, I mean, you can fool people for a long time, you know, that kind of sentence, but you can't fool them forever.
And I think people are starting to understand that the reason why there's so much against Russia There must be some kind of agenda, a kind of political agenda that this is not the truth.
I mean, the allegations of that the Russians hacked the US elections are ridiculous.
I mean, most people can see it is ridiculous.
And now is Trump.
And now my case, not that I am in the same level as Trump, but it's sort of the same strategy.
If somebody is against you, you just say, well, this is a person that is cooperating with the Russians.
But for how long will people buy into that?
Of course, there will always be some who would believe the mainstream media and the politicians, but I think there will be a clash somehow.
And I think actually...
We would see people that are becoming dissidents have to move to Russia to exercise their free speech like we had people from the Soviet Union coming to the West and was writing from the West what was going on in the Soviet Union.
Of course, the situation is different now because we still have an open society.
The Soviet society was very closed.
But there are so many lies.
And I mean, this whole game about what is false, what is right, what is the truth, it's extremely difficult for many people to understand.
So this is the game now.
Who's lying and who is telling the truth?
So this is where we have to navigate now.
The war is actually an information war.
You really need to be equipped to understand who are the people that is the right and the good people and who are the bad people because there are so many lies circulating and I think it's very dangerous to try to make regulations and trying to stop fake news as Facebook is up to now and also the German government who now wants to Have some kind of law.
So if you put fake news on Facebook, you can have a penalty of 500,000 euros if you don't take it down or delete it within 24 hours.
It's crazy.
And who's going to decide?
Who's going to decide?
What is fake news?
This is my concern.
I think that's quite disturbing if it's a group within Facebook or the government who's deciding what is right, what is wrong.
And this is the new war, actually.
Trying to distinguish between good and evil and to understand what is the truth.
So I think we're already in that war.
But as I said before, I'm optimistic because I see more and more people.
I mean, just one year ago, people would say, you are crazy.
I mean, why do you want to write anything good about Russia?
But this is changing now.
I get a lot of emails from people saying, well, maybe we were wrong.
Maybe you are right.
So I think we just have to get the information out and just trying to keep counterfighting.
The people that are spreading lies and also is building their worldview on a lie because it comes from somewhere.
I mean, if you're building your worldview on a lie, I mean, I'm a Christian.
Everybody knows that.
So I think if you have a worldview, there is no God.
There is nothing.
There is no afterlife.
There is nothing.
There is only man.
And the will to exercise power.
I mean, that's very bad.
So you need to have a worldview.
You need to have some...
I'm not saying everybody should be Christians.
Of course, I think it would be a good idea.
But I mean, you need to have something more than politics and the state.
You need to have a higher or a deeper understanding of what is life.
And you need to have a spiritual foundation to understand what's going on because you can't understand what's going on in today's world just having a political perspective because this is a spiritual fight between good and evil.
It's a tremendous clash between good and evil and the people that are lying and the people that are telling the truth.
It's not so much about being left or right anymore because you even saw Republicans that were siding up with the Democrats Before Trump got elected.
So it's not so much about blue and red, left or right.
It's about the lies or the truth.
And that's something that we are not prepared for because we are living in this age of relativism.
So we're weakened.
I think if I can have people follow one of the Ten Commandments, I mean, thou shalt not bear false witness would be a pretty good one.
Another one, of course, is Thou Shalt Not Steal.
A lot of the Western countries have been stealing from future generations through national debt, through unfunded liabilities, and they use the wages of sin to create all of these destabilizations and wage these endless wars, particularly in the Middle East.
And then they steal from future generations again through debts and unfunded liabilities to create a massive welfare state which then after people in the Middle East have been displaced through wars and some are coming because of that and some are coming because of economic opportunism.
The money that is stolen is used to create a welfare state that brings and pays for people to come in.
This is not an organic process or anything like that.
As we all know, if people had followed the thou shalt not steal, we would not be either destabilizing the Middle East nor dealing with a migrant crisis.
And as we all know, and as the Bible teaches, the wages of sin is death.
And we need to find a way to resurrect these moral values, whether it's through philosophy or whether it's through religion or some combination of the two.
Without these moral values that we're willing to suffer for, we are going to fail fundamentally as a society, as has happened before many times.
Thou shalt not steal Or bare false witness also took down Rome.
Exactly.
But I think one of the major problems is that the church, which should be the institution that would preach these values and really be the rock, it has been weakened enormously because those people who are now the so-called truth-tellers, they have sort of...
How should I put it?
They have reinterpreted Christianity.
And unfortunately, the church in the West has been so eager to please these people, these new trends, so it has become weakened.
And it's interesting because if you look at the Russian Orthodox Church during communism, that was a martyr church.
People were ready to sacrifice and die for their faith.
They never lost the spirit and the strength and the stamina.
Even though it was so persecuted.
In the West, we see now a church that is completely secularized.
Even the Catholic Church is becoming secularized and politicized in the wrong direction, I think.
Because, I mean, peace, for instance, has to do with justice.
I haven't heard any Catholic priest been talking about that for ages.
I mean, it's just mercy, mercy, mercy, you know, which is a very feminine version of Christianity.
Whereas if you look to the Orthodox, they know how to fight.
They know that life is a fight against sin, against evil, against yourself, against evil powers.
So you have to be, you know, a strong person and you need to strengthen yourself by The Ten Commandments, the faith, the prayer.
I mean, you need to discipline yourself through faith and also society.
But the Western church is just like so compliant.
It's just one to be, you know, friends with everybody.
So I think it's really disturbing for me as a Christian in Europe to see how that the church is just becoming, you know, weak and just...
Have adapted to this progressive leftist agenda.
It's strange to see social justice warriors in funny hats because I think that's, and we see this with the army as well and all of the institutions that are traditionally thought of as protecting Western values.
I think I've all been infiltrated by this social justice warrior stuff where, you know, they play this endless game of whack-a-mole, find some disparity in outcomes, claim that it's injustice and use the power of the state in an attempt to close the gap, thus strangling everyone's freedoms and property rights and so on, and the end result of this.
But I think this is going to happen either way.
I mean, this is the traditional arc and trajectory of civilizations to hedonism, to materialism, to consequentialism, to decadence.
But the one thing we have now is this kind of conversation and this kind of platform.
This is the only chance I think we have to arrest the general wheel of civilizations and try and keep everything That our ancestors fought, suffered, and died to achieve.
We have this platform.
We have the internet.
We have the capacity to broadcast to the world which has never existed before.
This is the new Gutenberg press relative to the monopoly of texts that the Catholics had prior.
So I think we have the greatest chance to fight against what has always been inevitable in history, and that certainly gets me out of bed every morning with a spring in my step.
Yeah, but I think that it will be the lay people who would have to recapture the church because it's not going to be the bishops or even the pope.
I mean, it has to come from the grassroots.
And people say, okay, we're going to take back our church because, I mean, you need some kind...
I mean, the church is a 2,000-year-old institution.
It should be the rock under European culture.
And I think it's time now to stop this political correctness.
And to understand that to be a Christian is also to be able to fight.
I mean, Christ was also a warrior.
I mean, and it's this soft compassion, open arms, open borders, Christianity, it's part of Christianity, but it's not all.
I mean, you need to defend your culture.
It says in the Catholic catechism that you have to love your own life and defend it.
It means you have to love yourself.
Christ says, love your neighbor as you love yourself.
It means it's okay to love yourself, also as a culture, and to defend it.
Even if it comes to a battle where some lives would get lost, you have the moral right to defend yourself because you love your own life.
You are also the creation of God or a creature of God.
So you should love yourself for that reason.
And it also goes for our culture.
We should love ourselves for the right reasons and not just commit suicide like we are doing now.
And I think we should repeat to ourselves those values that has built Europe and not be ashamed of it because many Christians are ashamed of it or trying to hide it or their silence or their silence themselves out of fear of political correctness.
So people should stand up and say, if Europe is not Christian, what is Europe?
I think Europe is going to become an Islamic territory if we are not trying to take our Christianity back.
Because actually Muslims are just filling in the void after Christianity has been lost.
Because there needs to be some kind of spiritual foundation under every society.
And right now I see there was a TV, Syria, on Danish national television recently, with Danish women that had converted to Islam.
Not because they fell in love with a man and then they had to convert, just because they did it out of their own choice.
And it was interesting to see that they all came from a very messy background.
Either they have been dealing with alcohol or drugs, or they had, you know, families that had been broken.
And many Europeans are in the same situation.
And they find some kind of relief that there was this God they had to be submissive to, and there were rules.
So it means that, I mean, the Islamic faith, or to be a Muslim today...
Is to get order in your life, to get things fixed.
And there are so many broken hearts, so many broken families, so many miserable lives in Europe because of liberalism and because of all those relativistic values.
So now we have Islam to come and save people if we have no Christianity.
So people should wake up to that reality because many people are looking for answers.
They're looking for some kind of stable fund.
Because otherwise, you're just becoming a loser.
Maybe you are a drug addict, you are dependent on alcohol or happy pills or whatever.
I mean, a lot of people, at least in Scandinavia, are on some kind of drugs because they are miserable.
And now we see that a new religion is entering our society with rules and order and submission.
And maybe people would even like it with time.
Who knows?
It's really time to decide the future of Europe.
Should it be Islamic or should it be Christian?
I mean, people have the choice now.
Maybe one day it's going to be too late.
Well, I certainly appreciate the work that you're doing to bring this information to the public.
I want to express great sympathy for this list, this unjustified accusation, and so on.
But it can be a wake-up call, so I sort of urge people to put their efforts into understanding what's happening to Eben and to others in Europe who are talking about policy.
Talking about political policy should not get you blacklisted, should not get you on a warning list or anything like that.
