Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

July 16, 2016 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

03:27:59

3350 Let’s Talk About Race Relations - Call In Show - July 13th, 2016

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Hi, hi everybody.
	Stefan Molyneux from Free Domain Radio.
	Hope you're doing very well.
	Please, please don't forget to support the show at freedomainradio.com slash donate.
	You can follow me on Twitter at Stefan Molyneux.
	And of course, please use our affiliate link if you've got some shopping to do at fdrurl.com slash Amazon.
	Cultural appropriations can have been in the news, and I talked about it with the first caller, who is an aspiring musical songwriter, and we talked about a new play wherein the founding fathers are cast as black people.
	And what does it mean, and how deep does it go, and is it justified?
	It's a great conversation.
	Now, the next caller wanted to talk about police shootings.
	It was a brother and a sister who have some significant and deep concerns about what's going on in American race relations.
	And it's just one of these great, honest conversations about race that we're always told to have and which, in this show, we really do have.
	And I appreciate those callers.
	A really, really powerful chat.
	Now, the next caller was a woman who wanted to know what is the biological basis for hypergamy, to which, of course, bald-head fetish is the only answer.
	But hypergamy, of course, is a woman's desire to marry up, and we talked quite a lot about it, and I think this really helps people to understand a lot of male-female relations, so I hope that helps too.
	Last guy...
	Great guys.
	Called him before.
	Boy, was he in need of a pep talk.
	And I think I dug pretty deep and coughed up a few hairballs of significant motivation.
	So I hope that will help refresh you in your life and just remind you to enjoy what it is that you're doing, despite some of the challenges of what it is we're all doing.
	So thanks so much for listening and for watching.
	Here we go.
	Alright, well up first today we have Juan.
	Juan wrote in and said, I'd like to ask Stefan on his view on the runaway hit musical Hamilton by Lin-Manuel Miranda.
	I got a split opinion on the show.
	On one hand, I am a big fan.
	I love the music and am in awe of the artistic brilliance of Miranda who composed, wrote, and starred in the show.
	A great achievement, there's no denying that.
	On the other hand, Miranda chose to cast a racially mixed group to portray the Founding Fathers, and he chose to use hip-hop to express the struggle and energy of the American Revolution in 1776.
	Those are viable artistic decisions, but they're a little bit too PC for me.
	The Founding Fathers were straight white men, after all, and to portray them in another way seems wrong.
	It's rewriting history in a PC way.
	Should you cast a black George Washington, who was a wealthy slave owner himself?
	Regarding the recent trend for political correctness in art and entertainment, how would the black community react if Malcolm X or Martin Luther King Jr.
	were cast as white guys?
	It would be an outrage.
	But to cast the black George Washington and Thomas Jefferson is the hip thing to do.
	I do not agree.
	That's from Juan.
	Oh, hey Juan, how you doing?
	Oh, hi Stefan.
	Thanks for having me on the show.
	Thank you, and thank you for having a good mic and a great voice.
	So, have you seen the show?
	No, unfortunately, I'm in Europe.
	I'm in Austria right now, so it's 1 a.m.
	here.
	And it's very hard to get tickets to the show anyways, but I heard the show on audio on MP3 more than once, and I'm really loving the show.
	And I even bought the book.
	It's a thick book, and I watched all the photographs, so I know it very well, but I haven't seen it live, unfortunately.
	Right.
	I haven't heard the music.
	I like musicals myself.
	Les Mis, I've never seen it with a dry eye from beginning to end.
	But that's, of course, a great story.
	And, of course, when I was in theater school, we did a lot of training for musical theater, dance, and singing, and so on.
	So I like it a lot.
	Yeah.
	But...
	Yeah, go ahead.
	I'm actually planning, not even planning, I'm actually writing a musical myself, so I'm really into the art form, I would say.
	So I'm really taking this seriously, and I really have to say that it is a great achievement.
	And this is really why I have this great problem with it, because I'm a hobby, or I say an amateur philosopher myself, and I know if I have a classical dilemma, as I have right now, I really love it, but in the same moment I have a really deep problem with it, I should call a philosopher, and maybe you can help me with my Well, dilemma right now.
	Dan, do you want to talk about that?
	I mean, look, obviously, I mean, casting white guys as black guys and black guys as white guys is, I mean, it's a little unusual.
	I saw a black woman in Toronto do the title role in Ibsen's Hedda Gabler.
	And it took a little bit of getting used to, but I mean, she was a good actress and it didn't really bother me after a while.
	So, yeah, I'm fine with sort of competence winning over.
	Hang on, hang on.
	I'm fine with competence winning over, but when you're doing sort of very historically specific stuff, I think that would be a challenge.
	Like, I'm sort of imagining something like Othello with an all-black sort of royalty and then...
	Sorry, with an all-white royalty and then Iago was a black guy and so on, that would have some startling responses.
	And of course, if you're talking about historically accurate, I saw a movie years ago, I think it was called Black Man's Burden with Harry Belafonte and John Travolta.
	And it was sort of the blacks were in charge and the whites were the underclass and so on.
	It was an interesting way of sort of looking at the problem of race relations.
	But the problem is if you're going to take very sort of historically specific characters and change their races, as you point out.
	I mean, if there was a sort of biography of W.E.B. Du Bois or something like that, And a white guy was cast in the role, everybody would go mental with it, right?
	Yeah.
	My problem with it right now is this.
	I... I myself wouldn't have had a problem with it a year ago, I'm sure.
	Because a year ago I was not really political.
	But then the last summer of love happened in Europe.
	I probably have heard of it.
	We were kind of stormed by a million more immigrants.
	And right now the word immigrant is, in German it's called Reitsword, a word that is really making me, well, quite itchy when I hear it.
	And so my view on immigration really changed.
	I mean, I'm an immigrant myself.
	I come from Argentina originally.
	I live in Austria, although my mother was Austrian.
	So there's no problem with immigration per se.
	There's no problem with races.
	I mean, the artistic freedom, of course, is there.
	George Orwell wrote The Animal Farm and he cast animals as people.
	So that's not the problem.
	The problem is that...
	If I imagine right now in Europe, living in Europe right now and we have this huge Muslim immigration going on right now, if I imagine myself 200 years in the future and to see a piece of Austrian history and all cast by a Muslim cast, I would like kind of think, hmm, I don't think this is something I would be happy about if I'm looking in the future right now.
	So I don't know, is this just going with the course of history?
	Okay, we change and so just deal with it?
	Or is it, no, that's actually not something that we should do.
	We should be truthful to what happened.
	And yes, those were straight white men.
	We should portray them as thus.
	This is the question I have.
	I mean, I would not be happy to see a Muslim caste, for example, portray Austrian founding fathers, although we don't have the same origin story as the American states.
	That's my thing.
	Well, I mean, if you look at the degree of sort of tug and push that goes on with what race Jesus was, that is something that is kind of important.
	Again, I mean, I'd love to live in a colorblind world.
	I'm not sure that nature is quite so colorblind as a result of human biodiversity.
	That seems to be basically a reality.
	And it would be great if you could just write great stories and then just cast the best actress in it.
	But we are not at that place in human history.
	So I think it is, you know, it's funny, you know, cultural appropriation, you know, people get, I think black people get mad at Justin Timberlake for what's called cultural appropriation, but the idea that you would take a historical slice of white guys and cast black guys in it, yeah.
	What I do find impressive is that the writer actually spent one, a year, he says, according to Wikipedia, he spent a year working on a song called My Shot, another early number.
	A year working on one song?
	I mean, it's like Freddie Mercury wakes up from a bubble bath or sort of comes to in a bubble bath in Germany and writes crazy little thing called Love in about eight minutes.
	But, you know, I get that there's different levels of work involved.
	It's been a while since I've seen a really satisfying musical.
	I did go and see Rent, which I found to be not great.
	Like one, maybe one great song.
	But the rest of it was...
	And just, you know, cool, grungy outsiders.
	It's just a bit cliched for me.
	Maybe it's sort of cool for a younger set or whatever.
	But it's a tough call.
	You know, the writer, the woman...
	Sorry, the man who wrote it...
	I don't know what his thought process was behind it.
	But, you know, this is the kind of thing, assuming he's not getting a lot of government money, it's voluntary and, you know, it provokes an interesting question about sort of race and cultural appropriation and so on.
	Like, in the present time, if you're going to switch the races of a particular country, Story?
	Well, that's one thing, because it's the modern world, right?
	But back then, to switch blacks and whites from like a couple of hundred years ago, that's tougher, right?
	Because that is a real historical stretch to say that they're interchangeable, to put it mildly, right?
	I mean, blacks were slaves, they didn't have voting rights, of course, limited property rights, and so on.
	And so going back that far, you know, it's one of these things, you know, provokes interesting discussions and so on.
	But again, it's not forced on me.
	If you want to see it, you can see it.
	If you don't want to see it, you don't have to see it.
	And it's one of these things that I don't have a huge amount of problems with.
	If the music's great, you know, they can be polka-dotted colors for all I care.
	You know, you could, like, so for instance...
	You could put a black guy as the lead or a Chinese guy or whoever, maybe they've done this as a lead in something like Phantom of the Opera.
	Although, oh, he's disfigured and that must mean whoever people would come up with stuff like that.
	That to me is sort of less important.
	But the further you go back in history, I know that was said in the 19th century, but the further you go back in history, the more difficult it becomes to have sort of race neutral casting.
	And it does, like when I saw Heda Gabler with the black woman in the lead, obviously pretty historically inaccurate for that time and place, but the fact is that nobody commented on it.
	Again, that would be lovely.
	It'd be lovely if we lived in a world where nobody...
	We've commented on race, and things didn't have to go through a lens of race, but it's not there.
	Think of Alfred Levine, Gwen Stefani, and so on.
	They have been attacked vociferously for cultural appropriation of Japanese culture.
	I think that there's some videos that they did or whatever.
	It just seems like another one of these one-way streets, you know, where if whites inject themselves into other people's stories.
	There was some Mel Gibson film where a white guy played an Asian guy many, many years ago, and that was a big keflor about all that stuff as well.
	So it just seems like one of these things, like casting black guys as white guys is fine, casting white guys as black guys is racist.
	And so it just seems like another one of these, okay, so this is not a two-way street, and therefore to me it just becomes predictable and dull.
	Yeah, the sad thing for me with this musical, which I said, I really love it.
	I really think it's a great achievement.
	And to see it is really appropriated by the PC culture.
	I've seen the interviews with Lin-Manuel Miranda and the artistic decision is viable.
	As I said, he really used hip hop and I think it's a good idea to use hip hop, which comes from the underground, which comes from Bronx.
	And it's kind of a struggling music to fight the establishment.
	And so, okay, hip hop is a good choice as music.
	And I can't understand why he chose to go this route, but, and this is what you said, it is actually, it is a topic of race.
	They were slave owners, the founding fathers.
	I mean, I'm not 100%...
	Somewhere, yeah.
	Somewhere, that's what I wanted to say.
	And I'm not that 100% certain on American history.
	I'm Austrian, so I still think I know more American history than I should.
	Why should we, Austrians, know so much about America and they know...
	Not so much about the rest of the world, but okay, that's a different story.
	The thing that's so sad for me is that why do we have this general trend of PC in art in general?
	This was kind of this jumping board, this Hamilton example right now is just one example of many where the whole mainstream culture is moving into a PC world where I just, well, it's a huge disconnect for me.
	And this is also why I have such a big problem with this being so great, but it's just PC which makes it deeply troubling for me.
	Right.
	Well, I mean, that's a big question as to why the PC culture is so infected art.
	Artists in general lean left, in my experience, and why they lean left and why they get selected through that is a wide variety of things.
	Of course, there is...
	If you're really good at business, you can make a lot of money in business, and lots of people can make lots of money in business, but in arts, like in sports, like 98% 2% of the money goes to like 2% of the people.
	So there's a lot of resentment and ambition and frustration in the art world.
	And the art world, everybody's precious.
	And they do it for free for a long time before they get into the marketplace.
	Like people don't run free lemonade stands for 10 years before they get into business.
	But people will sit there and draw and do free amateur theater and go to karaoke if they're singers and play music.
	For nothing or beer money or whatever.
	And so people do art for a long time before they get paid.
	And there's this genuine terror in the heart of most artists, which is, am I ever going to get paid?
	And so there's this really fractured and fractious relationship with the marketplace for artists.
	And this is why they tend to gravitate to, in the past, it would be to the kings and the queens who would get patronage.
	There were some that flowed to Shakespeare and other people, of course.
	And Now they run to governments.
	And of course, because the governments control the unions like they give the unions special protections, it's really tough to do a pro-free market film.
	There was one many years ago, a pro-property rights film, Pacific Heights, with Michael Keaton that a friend of mine who's an economist recommended as one of the few sort of pro-property rights films worth watching.
	It's tough to do a real pro-free market film because, you know, a lot of times you're getting tax breaks.
	A lot of times you have to deal with, well, pretty much always you're going to have to deal with socialist-leaning or leftist-leaning unions and union protections and so on.
	And it's a big challenge.
	So there is a kind of left-wing thing.
	And also, I mean, this is not the case with all of the artists who work on this, but the left from the sort of progressive era forward said basically, well, we want to take over the art institutions because we're patient, right?
	And so if we can reinforce through art all of the...
	Things we wish were true, then people will consume...
	People consume more art than reality these days.
	Because people are watching like three or four hours of television or screen time a day.
	People are consuming more art than reality.
	And so if there's something in reality that you don't like, if you can reinforce it through art, it will become more real to people than reality itself, right?
	So most people, they experience...
	Black people through television, through movies.
	And the black people who are in television and movies are obviously, you know, smart and competent and resourceful and talented and great and so on.
	Because those are the kind of people of any race who are going to make it to the top of their profession.
	So, you know, Denzel Washington is a huge draw, as he is for me.
	He's a fantastic actor.
	And there's, of course, a wide variety of Morgan Freeman and other actors and so on who just are great draws and so on.
	And so people have a relationship.
	With blacks that come through art, not through life.
	And so, when you look at crime shows, generally, the criminals tend to be white.
	And the heroes or the cops will often, you know, iced tea style, be sort of black.
	And that's what the, it's kind of what, it's the world that the leftist wish was true.
	And so this wish fulfillment in art that, it's just one example of many, right?
	And so this wish fulfillment in art is really powerful and it programs people.
	Well, you know, if my main interaction or my main view of black people is through arts, through movies, through television, so on, you know, I guess unless it's boys in the hood or whatever, kind of a skewed view of how things are.
	But there is a sort of drop-off for that, right?
	There's like this sort of hissing wire or this sort of hissing string that goes, it's going to boom, right?
	Which is that people at some point eventually will get bored.
	Will get bored.
	And this is, I mean, I don't consume that much media these days anymore.
	I do a little bit for the show if it's sort of coming up.
	But it's just so boring and it's just so predictable.
	And, you know, hopefully people have not been dumbed down so much that, you know, like four-year-olds, they just want the same stories over and over and over again.
	Hopefully they'll get bored.
	And, you know, I think the success of this show where we're cooking at, you know, 10 to 15 million views and downloads a month comes because at least what I say is not going to be always so grindingly predictable.
	And the social justice warrior stuff really tests everyone's capacity to...
	To stand repetition because it's so repetitive.
	Anytime there's a conflict between cops and a minority, evil cop, good minority.
	Anytime there's disparities in male-female earnings, sexism and horror, right?
	And it's so boring.
	It's so predictable.
	And it's my hope, my desperate hope.
	I'm trying to stimulate this in people that we can remain intelligent enough that we get bored by the same stories.
	I remember when I was a kid.
	When I was a kid...
	Comics.
	Comics, I guess, are still pretty big.
	Maybe they're more on tablets now, but comics were the big thing.
	And I remember sitting in a treehouse when I was about eight, and I was reading some war comic.
	And I remember thinking, you know, wouldn't it be great?
	Wouldn't I save so much money?
	And wouldn't I have endless entertainment if I could get to the end of a comic Push a button on my hip or wherever and completely forget the comic.
	You know, that would be fantastic because I could read the comic, push the button, go back and read the comic, push the button, go back and read the comic.
	And I'd never have to buy a new comic because I, boop, just erase, right?
	And that to me is kind of like what happens with a lot of this leftist media stuff.
	People get to the end of the story, they push a button, and they get the same story.
	It's basically the same.
	Basically the same.
	And it's like they've forgotten it, and it's just...
	So intelligent people need stimulation, and less intelligent people are desperate for repetition.
	And this is sort of the cultural divide, I think, that's occurring, is that a lot of people are abandoning the mainstream media because it's so repetitive and it's so boring.
	When was the last time you picked up a mainstream media news story and was really surprised at the conclusion that they came to?
	When was the last time you read a New York Times story about Trump or a Huffington Post story about Black Lives Matter and just went like, wow, I'm really surprised, pleasantly surprised?
	Yeah, I'm living in Austria, as I said, so I'm not reading American media all the time.
	I'm reading European, German and Austrian media.
	But every time I read an article like this, the most funny thing is I scroll down to the comment section and I see a completely different world than I'm used to.
	Because right now the media really lost their audience in Austria and Europe.
	It's really, maybe you've been here, but it's really a horrible situation.
	It's really, it It starts to scare me, what's happening right now.
	And the thing is that whatever the article says, when you scroll down to the comment section below, there is a 180 degree split opinion.
	Nobody agrees on anything that's written in the original article.
	And whenever you read an article which you say, wait a minute, this article actually makes sense.
	It sounds truthful.
	It sounds intelligent.
	You scroll down to the section of the comments and you just read one word and it's just, thank you.
	I read tens and tens of comments of people just writing, thank you for this honest article.
	I'm not used to reading an honest article anymore.
	It's so rare.
	It's so extremely rare.
	So there's just one voice.
	The left-wing media is one big huge megaphone and there's almost nothing left.
	Every time you see something different, it's a huge surprise.
	It's almost a shock.
	It's like, oh, I'm not used to reading truth in the media anymore.
	I didn't know it was possible.
	Yes, well, there is a sort of belief or a meme that's out there that the future is currently being fought over by people who write the articles and people who write the comments.
	Yeah, right.
	And it seems like never the twain shall meet.
	Yeah.
	It is my hope, of course, that the youngest generation, younger generation, people sort of in their early 20s, late teens, early 20s, that they've grown up with enough stimulation and enough different viewpoints.
	They certainly get more viewpoints than I did when I grew up.
	There was like basically 2.1 television channels, BBC One, ITV, and I don't even know what the hell was ever on at BBC Two.
	And no internet and the radio was very heavily government controlled and so on.
	And so kids are growing up with...
	A much greater multiplicity of perspectives.
	And it's my hope, of course, that they get exposed to stuff that's true.
	And look, we all know when we read something that is genuinely, blisteringly deeply heartfelt and true, it has a fundamental ballast weight and power to it.
	And it's sort of like fishing.
	You know, Austrian, I don't know if you fish a lot.
	But if you fish, you know, every now and then, like when I was younger and I fished, every now and then I'd forget to put the weight on the hook.
	So what do you do?
	You cast out your hook and it just sits on the top of the water.
	Because you've got to have a weight to take the hook down with the bait, right?
	And to me, the media is just like, they're fly fishing.
	There's no weight.
	I guess the fly fishing is different.
	But they're trying to get the fish down in the water, but there's no weight to it because they've got no honesty.
	It's all for effect.
	It's all for politics.
	It's all for control.
	It's all for manipulation.
	There's not a genuine, spontaneous, honest, deep moment of humanity in anything that I ever read from the mainstream media.
	It's all this tentative, hedging, manipulative, avoidant crap.
	And so it's like they're trying to fish and I think that the real brains are down in the water and they've got no weight on their hooks.
	So they're getting all the surface crap, they're picking up a lot of weeds, you know, they're maybe getting the odd dragonfly or two, but they're not getting down to where the big fish are.
	You want to get down to where the big fish are, you put a damn weight on your hook.
	And that means be honest, even, or perhaps especially, if and when it scares you.
	And that's right at the heart of my problem right now.
	Be honest, even if it scares you.
	You know, I'm right with you.
	When you say that Hopefully, one day we all live in a world that's colorblind.
	That's absolutely my point of view.
	I'm libertarian, which means I'm a business owner myself, and I always give the job to the most competent person.
	I don't care what color, what race, what gender, even if it's a dog, if it's the best, whatever for the job, I give it the job.
	I'm really strictly in this.
	But right now, the things that happen right now in Europe, They are really race-driven.
	And it's very hard to use another word than this very, well, strong.
	In Austria it's taboo.
	It's absolutely taboo.
	I mean, probably you have a good idea of what it's like to talk about things of race in Austria, birth country of Adolf Hitler.
	So that's kind of very, very taboo.
	But now...
	I'm listening to your show a lot, which is really great.
	And just recently you had on your show Professor Lin, then you had, I don't know the surname of Jason, and those people… Oh, Jason Richwine?
	Yeah, right.
	I listened to both those talks, and they speak very uncomfortable truths, which say that there is, obviously… And this is why those two ladies, like they are.
	A tall glass of cool water on a hot day.
	I mean, I just, I love them.
	They are so refreshing.
	And of course, we're all one race, which is why there should be no legal distinctions between the races.
	There should be no race who has more rights or fewer rights or gets preferred.
	Affirmative action or who gets subsidies or who gets benefits.
	We're all a human race.
	So everyone who is mentally competent of any race should be equal before the law.
	And as far as that goes, I'm in complete agreement with them and anyone else who would say anything like that.
	But just because we're equal before the law doesn't mean that we're equal on average in outcomes.
	You know, I mean, you'd never pass a law that says Chinese people can't join the NBA. But just because they have the equal right of anybody else to join the MBA doesn't mean that you're going to expect to see Chinese people proportionately represented in the MBA. Equality of opportunity is a challenge.
	And of course, a whole lot of the left has been saying, well, we want equality of opportunity.
	And then when it doesn't work out, they say, well, that's bad.
	And therefore, we need equality of results.
	Now, equality of opportunity is freedom.
	Equality of results is tyranny.
	That's right at the heart of my big problem.
	Okay, so what's your problem?
	No, no.
	Actually, you summed it up wonderfully right now.
	That we are equal before the law.
	We're equal in opportunities.
	And this is exactly where I stand.
	But we also have to face the truth that the results will be different.
	Be it gender differences, or be it race differences, or be it whatever differences.
	Age differences, maybe even.
	And we are different.
	That's the wonderful thing about us.
	I mean, if we were all exactly the same, it would be a pretty boring world.
	Right.
	And, you know, to me, I have no particular problem with any groups in society as long as they're treated equally under the law.
	Right?
	But of course, when you have preferential groups within society who seem to skate by with different standards than everyone else, that's the problem.
	The problem is that there is...
	You know, particular cultural groups, particular race groups, gender groups, and so on that get preferential treatment in the media and to some degree under the law.
	And that is the big problem.
	That is the big problem in society.
	If we want a colorblind society, we have to have equality before the law.
	We have to have zero, count them, zero laws specific to race or culture or gender.
	Zero laws specific to race or culture or gender.
	And then we let the chips fall where they may.
	But this idea that we're going to somehow, well, we're going to pressure people into hiring this group and less of this group, and we're going to change the college entrance exams for this group, and we're going to raise these groups and lower this.
	God almighty!
	And then people who like this stuff, affirmative action and jigging up people's entrance exams and forcing through threats of lawsuits for certain groups to be hired, which means that certain groups have to not be hired and so on.
	The people who...
	Want that stuff, then when they've got racial and gender and cultural specific laws or at least patterns of behavior that are largely enforced by the state, those people then say, they have the temerity to say, we need to live in a race and culture and gender blind society.
	You've got to be kidding me.
	If you want to live in a race and gender and culture blind society, You have to have equality before the law.
	You have to have equality before the law.
	The moment that you say, we need to have special laws so that women don't get underpaid.
	We need to have special laws so that blacks get hired.
	We need to have special laws so that Asians are not overrepresented in certain fields.
	Okay, fine.
	I think it sucks.
	I think it's wrong.
	I think it's immoral.
	But you're going to get racial hysteria.
	You're going to get everybody from different races and cultures and genders all trying to grab the power of the state just like we used to with religion when you used to favor one religion over another.
	You could have a state religion and this religion could get these benefits and this religion will be cast down and expunged and expelled and this religion is bad.
	Okay, then you just get religious warfare because each religion wants to get in the favored status and wants to deny those benefits to the other competing religions.
	Same thing happens in the business world.
	It's just this uncivil civil war that goes on through lobbyists rather than open warfare, at least for now.
	And so if you are going to start favoring, putting your fingers on the scale with regards to race or culture or ethnicity or gender, well then what's going to happen is every single group is going to try and manipulate the state for its own advantage.
	Except whites, because apparently it's racist when whites do it.
	Only when whites do it, or Asians perhaps.
	And...
	So yeah, I mean, let's have a colorblind society.
	Let's have a genderblind society.
	But that means no favored religions of a particular culture or a gender or a race or an ethnicity.
	No.
	Equality before the law.
	Equality before the law.
	Then let's see what happens.
	But with this religious warfare going on with every group trying to get the favor of the state for themselves, well, we all know where that leads to.
	That leads to eventually civil war and or disintegration.
	Yeah, this is what I can watch happening right now in Europe.
	Well, at least let's hope it's not building up.
	I got two sons which are very young and I hope I will never get into a situation where I have to leave the country.
	But I actually got my Argentinian passport right now just in case I have to leave quickly in a couple of years time.
	Well, yeah, you know, I was thinking about this the other day.
	I'm turning 50 in a couple of months.
	Puts me past any draft and I have a daughter.
	Yep.
	It's the thing with the Austrians and Germans in particular.
	I'm just saying this, maybe you are not this familiar with the view of Austrians and Germans themselves, although you're very cultured in all those different topics.
	It is really, whatever they try to put on the German people, I just use German people now, including Austrians, is they use the so-called, in German it's called Nazi-koile, which means they just blame you being a Nazi.
	Whenever you say anything against, well, illegal immigration, for example, and Whole media, whole left wing, whatever, movement comes in, Nazi.
	Which is kind of ironic.
	Sorry to interrupt, but it's kind of ironic.
	Because what were the Nazis but illegal immigrants?
	The Nazis?
	You know, they weren't invited into France.
	They just came on over.
	They weren't invited into Austria or Czechoslovakia or Poland or...
	In they come!
	I mean, the whole point of war is that...
	Anyway, go on.
	I've never seen this as illegal immigration, actually, warfare.
	But okay, I could see it that way also.
	The thing...
	The Nazi thing only works if you let it work.
	And so I just said recently to a friend of mine, okay, come up to me and I say, I'm against illegal immigration of hundreds of thousands of millions of people walking into our country without a passport, just claiming whatever lie, and then they get money from the state.
	And then they would say, well, then you're a Nazi.
	And I say, well, no, I'm not a Nazi, but my grandfather was.
	So, well, what's the problem now?
	Not denying it, not being overly, well, sorry for it, because, well, that's two generations up.
	I don't have anything to do with it.
	It's true.
	I wonder if these brave people, sorry I wanted to interrupt, but I wonder if these brave people, if you're a Nazi because your grandfather might have been one, then I wonder if they'd be happy to going up to black people and saying, well, you're slaves because your ancestors, you're currently slaves because your ancestors were.
	That's actually the same logic behind it, yeah.
	Same logic, same logic.
	I must speak German because my father...
	Anyway, it's just...
	Until the day that Austrians and Germans just cannot stand tall and just say, well, yeah, it's true.
	My grandparents, whatever, were Nazis.
	It's actually true.
	This doesn't mean that right now, 70 years later, I have to do anything that, well, the left-wing establishment wants me to because I still have a brain and I still have legitimate feelings and thoughts which I don't have just to, well...
	Blend out because they might be racist, at least in your point of view or silly worldview.
	I don't know.
	Well, look, here's, I think, an important thing to remember with regards to European history.
	You know, the two world wars combined with the development of nuclear weapons made white people really, really terrified of their own tempers.
	So, one of the big problems of the First World War, I mean, a lot of complicated stuff.
	I've got a whole show on it.
	But inbreeding is a big problem in the royal families.
	And the First World War was like a family feud between all of these people who were inbred and, you know, therefore shedding IQ like...
	A bad space shuttle sheds tiles.
	And so you had, you know, a giant war that destroyed almost all of the wealth generated in the 19th century, which was the greatest accumulation of wealth in human history.
	This giant war, 10 million people killed, maps redrawn, governments overthrown and all this kind of stuff.
	And then 20 years later, you had another giant war with like, I don't know, 20, 30, 40 million people killed, depending on how many civilians you want to count.
	And then, after two giant world wars, with tens of millions of people killed, Europeans, and Americans of course, got the power to destroy the entire world if they got angry.
	You know, that's like the Bruce Banner in The Incredible Hulk.
	That's like him saying, well, I'm not just going to turn green, I'm going to disintegrate the planet if I lose my temper.
	Now, if you lose your temper, and...
	Let's just say that the First and Second World Wars were kind of an example of Europeans losing their temper and almost destroying their entire civilization and other people's civilization as well.
	Well, after the Second World War, the Europeans had the power to destroy the world many times over.
	And that sort of includes the Americans.
	So if you have two giant world wars and now you have civilization and world-ending weaponry, you're going to be a little...
	Scared of your own temper.
	Does that make sense?
	And this is one of the reasons why people are like, well, white people should never be assertive.
	Because, you know, when white people get really angry, they don't drop lots of bombs, they just drop two.
	And that might be enough, right?
	So I can understand why people would look at white people.
	In the 20th century and now I guess into the 21st and say, you crazy bastards.
	You keep having these world wars and now you have the capacity to destroy the entire planet if you get pissed off.
	So how about we really, really work to stop white people from being in touch with any assertiveness, with any anger?
	Because if they get angry, well...
	As the old saying goes, anybody who's not wearing sunblock 9 million is going to have a pretty fucking bad day.
	Yes.
	What happened?
	Just recently, two days ago, I read newspapers again, which I try to avoid because it makes me really angry.
	I'm really getting grey hair.
	I'm only 32 and I'm getting grey hair because I'm so angry at them all the time because of the news stories.
	And what happened?
	Just two days ago, a young immigrant guy coming up in the swimming pool, the public swimming pool, going up to a 10-year-old girl and touching her in the groin.
	Then the uncle of the girl went up to the immigrant guy, he was, I think, 17, and he slapped him.
	So he didn't even really punch him, he slapped him.
	Now what's happening?
	The uncle, he is under persecution of the law.
	The attorney general just went up to him and said, well, that's the criminal act to punch this poor guy.
	So, yeah, we're really not allowed to get at least, not even the least amount of angry, because we are immediately under persecution right now.
	Yeah, and that has been the case for quite some time.
	No, no, sorry, what I mean is that the idea that white people can't get angry, or shouldn't get angry, has been the case for quite some time.
	And, you know, frankly, given what white people did, and I'm really generalizing, right, but nonetheless, What white people did in the 20th century, well, white people's temper almost wiped out white civilization, and then once you get these, and other civilizations, once you get these world-destroying weapons, white temper could wipe out the entire planet.
	So, you know, that was the challenge, right?
	And, you know, where does it come from?
	Well, I think fundamentally, as I've made the case before, it comes back to, you know, the moment that governments got control over educating the young, that was it.
	For Western civilization.
	It's taken a long time and it's, you know, seems to be rapidly approaching its crisis point.
	But that is, you know, that was the great challenge.
	And that failed, right?
	The people lost, they just gave over education to the government.
	And then that started the great dumbing down, the great allegiance to the government.
	I don't think it was any accident that a generation after government gained controls of education, you get a First World War.
	Okay.
	Because human beings, we bond like ducks imprinting on a balloon.
	We just bond with whoever raises us.
	And it's hard to criticize the government if the government is your mommy.
	Yeah, education is a whole different topic, which to me is very present because I got two kids, as I just told you.
	So yeah, I'm very critical of the school and education system in Austria as well right now.
	But talking about anger in combination with a race.
	I mean, we both live in a colorblind world, you and me.
	I know that in our hearts.
	Thing is, the worst book I ever read, and I read quite a lot, was...
	A Long Walk Home or A Long Way Home.
	I think one of those both titles.
	The Memoirs of an African Child Soldier.
	The Horror of an African Civil War.
	I think this is worse than Dante's Divine Comedy Inferno.
	It was the worst thing I ever read.
	I was just...
	I needed courage just to read it, and I couldn't even imagine to live through this.
	So I don't think that black anger is any better or worse than white anger.
	Maybe it's even more brutal because I've never done anything like that.
	No, no, but one, this is the point.
	They don't have nukes.
	Okay, okay.
	It's technology.
	Right?
	I mean, if a very angry group of people outside of your particular control and sphere of influence had nukes and you were scared that they were going to launch them, Well, you know, the Cold War, oh, Russia and NATO and America and so on.
	But remember, the rest of the world was hanging by a thread for decades.
	If these white people attack each other, we're all gonna die.
	There's gonna be nuclear winter.
	Like, that was pretty alarming for people.
	So the idea that, you know, we try not to let white people be too assertive, like, I can kind of understand where that comes from.
	I'm not saying it's right or fair or just in the present.
	But I can really understand why there's a lot of assertiveness blocking when it comes to white people because, you know, during the stare down of the Cold War, I mean, it wasn't like the other countries weren't involved in that.
	Of course they were.
	If there had been some kind of large-scale nuclear attack, it wasn't just going to be the countries involved who got irradiated and destroyed.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Couldn't add anything to this.
	This is really just, well, we took this conversation a lot further than I imagined at the beginning.
	I thought we were talking about musicals and singing dance numbers a lot.
	Now we are in the World War III, so I'm shocked.
	Well, I hope that helps.
	I'm going to move on to the next caller.
	That's what I'm thinking.
	Do let me know if you get anything set to audio.
	I'd love to hear what you come up with.
	What, what?
	To say what?
	You said you're working on a musical, right?
	Yeah, what I'm coming up with.
	Yeah, if you've got something, send me a diddy.
	I always like to hear what the listeners are up to, so send it in.
	I will send something in for you, so you can listen to it in your own private pleasure.
	Thanks very much, Juan.
	I appreciate that.
	Thanks for the call.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Bye, Stefan.
	Alright, up next is Torian and his sister Jasmine.
	Torian's called in before and wanted to call in again about the recent shootings and violence we've seen.
	His question is, what is the state of black and white relations after the Alton Sterling and Philando Castile shootings?
	Is there a war between white and blacks?
	Or police and blacks?
	When will black people feel the backlash of consistently verbally abusing white people?
	Is it already happening?
	That's from Torian and Jasmine.
	Hey, how y'all doing?
	I'm well.
	How you guys doing?
	Pretty good.
	Great, great topic.
	You're not going to get me in trouble at all.
	This is fantastic.
	So relaxing.
	I could pretty much just do this one in my sleep, so I'm just going to doze my way through it.
	Well, listen, I mean, do you guys want to start?
	What do you guys think of these great questions and, you know, really, really important stuff to talk about.
	What do you guys think?
	What do you guys think things are?
	I think that things are getting...
	I don't know.
	I think things are getting better, but in a weird way.
	Because by better, I mean, at least online, you see a lot of white people starting to speak up.
	And they're kind of, I guess, defending themselves and being more assertive and not claiming their white guilt.
	But at the same time, you see more white people defending Black Lives Matter and Black anger.
	So it's getting better and worse at the same time, I feel like.
	And what do you think, Jasmine?
	Just to piggyback off what he said, As far as the split between whites not claiming their white guilt and then the ones that back Black Lives Matter, I feel like when they do decide to finally give in, I don't think it's by choice.
	I just think it's to just not be attacked anymore.
	And also, just to mention, as far as white people commenting on social media and stuff like that, I do see white people speaking out a lot more against slave movies because it used to be, you know, slave movie coming out and it was majority black people in the comments, you know, happy about it.
	But now I see a lot of white people upset talking about, you know, this is the last thing we need and things like that.
	Right.
	Have you guys seen some of the recent, I guess, 12 Years a Slave and other slave movies?
	Yes, and I just watched Tarzan, too, even though it was not just based simply around slavery.
	They did mention King Leopold from Belgium, I think, and the massacre in the Congo, just briefly.
	And I feel like the only time I'm upset about, I mean, the only time I'm upset against White people, if I'm watching a slave movie.
	And then after that, it's over.
	Right.
	Right.
	No, no, listen, I get it.
	I mean, my big one was Roots.
	That was sort of a big thing when I was growing up in England.
	I don't remember exactly.
	Sometime in the mid-70s or whatever.
	And all that stuff.
	And that was some pretty strong stuff.
	And, you know, I haven't watched the slave movies, but I'm going to assume that...
	I'm going to assume that whites don't come off too well.
	I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that whites don't come off too well in those slave movies.
	Yeah, of course not.
	Fair to say.
	All mean, sadistic, rapist, nasty, whatever, whatever.
	Right.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Okay, so what was I thinking about?
	Okay, as far as the shooting, right, so I feel like Okay, let me give you an example.
	I was over one of my family members' homes this weekend and my other brother, who is 12, basically claimed that the store owners of a phone store were racist because they closed before he could get in there.
	And I feel like that was I'm fed to him by other family members that he lives with.
	So I just basically see this cycle starting where he thinks white people are out to get him.
	And now I have to deal with that and try to reverse that and stop that from developing so he won't feel like a victim his whole life when he's not.
	Well, and sorry to interrupt, Jasmine, but it seems to me likely that if he's got this perception that sort of white people are acting against him in sort of negative or hostile ways, it's not just that he's going to feel like a victim, he's also going to get angry.
	He's also going to be more aggressive, right?
	Yeah.
	And it sort of then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, if that makes sense, right?
	Because it's like, you know, white people have got it in for me.
	I really hate those racist white people and so on.
	And next thing you know, you just don't have great relationships with white people because you've got this perspective.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, definitely.
	Yeah, like, I mean, if I'm like, Oh yeah, well, the criminal population in the black community is huge.
	I'm going to be terrified of black people my whole life.
	And it's like, well, then you're really not going to have...
	I'm not going to have this conversation with you because you're both going to be terrified.
	Does that make any sense?
	Like, it sort of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
	And again, that's not to say there isn't racism, but the degree to which it can be perceived out of ambiguous situations is the degree to which it really does poison the well of just decent conversations, right?
	Yeah, definitely.
	And not only that, I just want to add something.
	I just read a Huffington Post article about a white mom and how she was teaching her, she was talking about her four-year-old, I mean, like three-month-old baby son, white son, and she was encouraging other white moms to teach their white sons about white supremacy and And the privileges that they have.
	And so it can work the other way around, too, where you have white boys growing up feeling guilty about About the oppression of black people.
	So it can work with white kids too.
	Well, and then you can't have a normal relationship with a black person.
	Right.
	You know, because it's like, oh, I'm sorry already.
	It's terrible.
	I have all this privilege.
	You guys are so underprivileged.
	And it's just like, oh, man, how on earth are you going to have just a normal, healthy relationship if this is the perspective?
	I mean, if black people are saying, well, the white people are racist and the white people are saying, oh, we're terrible, we're racist, we have this privilege, how the hell are we just going to be able to sit down and have a coffee and talk about the game?
	Do you know what I mean?
	It really just poisons the well.
	Mm-hmm.
	Yeah, and it also – It starts to make Black people, and I can see this in myself too, but I think Black Lives Matter or Black victimization and white guilt.
	As a Black person, I feel like it's weird because I'm repulsed by it, but at the same time, a part of me is kind of happy.
	I don't know why, I don't know, but I think when people Wait, sorry, sorry, sorry.
	When you say you're repulsed by it, what do you mean there?
	I'm repulsed by like the white guilt.
	You're a victim.
	We need to help you out.
	You're oppressed.
	Yeah, yeah, okay.
	But a part of me is kind of like happy or like satisfied because...
	I'm not sure why, though.
	I'm not sure why, because I talked to my friends about this.
	Wait, Jasmine, did he just tickle you with a feather, or did you have a thought that you wanted to share?
	No, no, no.
	I'm going to add.
	I talked to women, for example, women who aren't feminists, right?
	When you have a victimization ideology, You benefit from that ideology, right?
	Because you have people feeling sorry for you.
	You have people who want to do things for you.
	You have people who will take it easy on you, right?
	And a part of me likes that, but a part of me is repulsed by it.
	Right.
	And, you know, to be honest, I think that's...
	True of everyone.
	I don't think that's a black thing.
	I think that's an everyone thing.
	Because everybody wants special treatment, but at the same time, we all kind of know that special treatment isn't that great for us.
	Right.
	Everybody wants to be king, but...
	The king does not sleep well at night sometimes.
	So, yeah, we all want free stuff, but we all know, you know, like this is to take a sort of ridiculously extreme example, you know, everybody wants to win the lottery.
	Well, there's some lottery in the States.
	Like, you're completely insane.
	It's like 520 million US dollars.
	It's like, because, you know, 519 would be not nearly enough.
	And so everybody wants to win the lottery.
	And...
	We all know, though, that people who win the lottery generally find it a pretty miserable experience.
	We all want the free stuff, even though there's so many stories of people who get the free stuff saying it was like the worst thing that ever happened.
	Imagine if you won 520 or whatever it is million dollars.
	Imagine what your life would be like.
	You'd be worried about losing any parts of it.
	You wouldn't have any trust that anyone was being your friend because they liked you.
	Anybody who was like, wow, you're really physically attractive.
	It's like, is that me or my wallet?
	It would just be kind of weird.
	And then your family would treat you differently.
	Your friends would treat you differently.
	It would be isolating.
	You know, God forbid you disobey something with the taxes and you, you know, Willie Nelson style in trouble with the IRS. I mean, I don't know.
	Like, we all want the free stuff, but at the same time, we all kind of know that the free stuff or the benefits or the unjust treatment and so on is not that great for us, right?
	It's like candy.
	It's tasty, but not that great for you.
	I would like to know, were you surprised About the police shooting?
	Like, when you read that, were you shocked?
	Now, which...
	Do you mean the shooting in Dallas where the ten cops got shot?
	Yes, the cops.
	Ah, it's a good question.
	I was not.
	I was.
	I was not.
	Look, and it's, to me, when you stoke this much hatred, it's not a matter of if but when.
	So I'm almost surprised like it happened today, but I'm not surprised that it happened.
	And I'm also not surprised at Obama, oh God, why even talk, right?
	Obama goes to this funeral and says, well, you know, these protests can get messy.
	It's like, messy?
	Messy?
	Are you kidding me?
	It's like your car explodes and you say, well, you know, I may have dinged the car next to me.
	It's like, no, that's more than a ding.
	So no, I won't say...
	I was always shocked when it manifests itself, but I'm not like...
	I would have been shocked if...
	I don't know.
	I'm trying to sort of think.
	If it had been a Japanese guy, that would have been more sort of shocking, if that makes sense.
	But to me, it's not...
	With this amount of hatred being pumped into the atmosphere, to me, it's not a case whatsoever.
	You shoot a bunch of bullets up into the air, whoever they're going to eventually hit, they're going to hit someone eventually, right?
	And it's just...
	It's not a matter of if, but when.
	So it's always surprising if it hits the guy next to you, but it was going to happen sooner or later, right?
	Right.
	And not surprisingly, there are a lot of black people on social media, on YouTube, who...
	Who aren't upset with the cop killer.
	You know, a lot of them are saying, you know, well, a lot of them are becoming more like radical and saying, well, you know, like there was one video about this black woman talking about how like she's like revolution is bloody and how, you know, sometimes like people like have to die like that.
	And my coworker...
	My co-worker, I was asking her, she was talking about the Alton Sterling shooting.
	And I said, what do you think about the Dallas shooting?
	She was like, I don't give a damn.
	You know, she didn't care about that.
	She felt like, you know, a lot of cops should be shot.
	Right.
	I mean, you know, the one statement that sort of sticks in my mind, and you guys have probably heard it too, is the statement that, you know, the white cops are out there hunting.
	Hunting young black men.
	That is, I mean, that is, you know, like when I was a kid, I remember reading these stories.
	It doesn't sound like there was a lot, but I just remember one in particular.
	And it was some guy being hunted.
	As part of some, you know, these guys were like, oh, we got tired of hunting lions, now we're going to hunt people.
	And it was this guy trying to survive being hunted.
	It was a fairly famous story a couple of decades ago.
	I'm sure people will let me know in the comments.
	But, you know, if you're hunting some guy that was on some island, I think, you're hunting some guy.
	And then he turns back and, you know, bear traps your leg.
	The audience cheers.
	You're being hunted down and gunned down and murdered in the streets in cold blood execution style while begging, hands up, don't shoot.
	You put that stuff into people's heads, yeah.
	It's a war at that point.
	And do we, you know, weep over, you know, when the English bombed the Nazis?
	Oh, it's so terrible, you know?
	I mean, we don't.
	So if that perspective is put forward and people really believe it, then I can completely understand why people would say, yeah, should have been more.
	Whatever the stuff is that people say.
	That relates back to your last call you just had when you were talking about art and how people who don't have relationships with black people, whatever they see in music or in TV shows or whatever – including the news, anything on the TV is what They will understand is a black person.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	And so if people, you know, if they're sort of looking at TV and movies and so on saying, well, if this is the general black population and then, you know, there's this...
	They keep getting this cattle prod of, you know, shooting and blacks, young black men being shooted and hunted down and they did nothing wrong and they were wonderful people and they knew all the kids' names and, you know, then it's like...
	It's really...
	I mean, I hate to use the word, it's trolling, because trolling is generally just kind of being annoying on the internet, and this is bloodshed, escalating stuff, but it's the kind of propaganda that winds people up.
	You know, for every race, it winds people up, and where does it go?
	Where does it go from here?
	That's sort of the big, right, the big question.
	Right.
	It's different.
	I was, um...
	A lot of the videos of blacks being shot by cops, a lot of those videos I come across on Facebook and it's on my Facebook feed, right?
	And so I think a lot of people, you know, if you mainly get your information from, you know, like the Facebook news or what your friends are posting, if you constantly see a black man getting shot by a cop, Well, that's the problem.
	That's the major problem that needs to be addressed.
	But, you know, if you look at the statistics of blacks and whites being shot by cops, you know, there are a lot of whites who are also shot by cops, but I've never seen a video of a white dude getting shot by a cop.
	But where's the market?
	Right.
	There's a real market.
	And I say this, it's not like a pseudo-market, it's a real market.
	Which is that, you know, if you produce videos or people see videos of black people getting shot, particularly by white cops, right?
	Then it's like there's a real market for it.
	I mean, this woman, Johnson?
	Diamond.
	Philando Castles.
	Diamond.
	That's her name, Diamond.
	Lavish Diamond.
	What was her last name?
	Who?
	Philando Castile's the woman who was in the car who live-streamed the Castile shooting, right?
	Philando Castile.
	So this woman, she's what, raised like a quarter of a million dollars on GoFundMe.
	In fact, Philando Castile's mom is really angry, saying this woman is not a fiancé, she's not family, she's profiting from this guy's death, and it's terrible.
	My son's death, right?
	So there's real, there's some, you know, she gets to go on The View, and she's now going to be trotted around and give speeches, and, you know, it's, you know, there's a market.
	There's somebody, you know, to see some white kid getting, I mean, there was some young white man who, unarmed white man who was shot by the cops like a week or two prior, and There's no market.
	Like, who's going to make money from that?
	Who's going to get famous from that?
	Who's going to get on The View because of that?
	Well, nobody.
	So there's just not that market.
	Lavish Diamond Reynolds is her name.
	And so there is a market for it in that it does put forward a sort of preconceived narrative that people can make a good deal of money from.
	Not just individuals, but groups as well.
	So, you know, follow the money, right?
	Who benefits?
	And there is some real benefits to groups for this, which doesn't occur for other things.
	Also artists, music artists.
	I know there's a campaign now titled 23 Ways to be Cute Black in America, something like that, with celebrities, singers, basically.
	Going over different deaths that have happened, like Central Land and the two most recent ones, Michael Brown and everybody else.
	Well, 23.
	I guess the latest 23 deaths.
	Right.
	Yeah, and of course the victims will sue the cities often and get them big cash settlements.
	The Democrats, of course, want the votes, which, you know, by race-baiting they can often try and get, and the media serves the Democrat interests for the most part.
	So there's sort of this terrible coalition or coalescing of particular interests, particularly in election years.
	Yeah.
	You know, there was, as I talked about with Diamond and Silk, right, recently, I think it was in Chicago or Philadelphia, like 60 shootings of black people one weekend.
	I think 20-odd people died, were killed.
	You know, where was Black Lives Matter live streaming and protesting and, right, don't those black lives matter?
	It would seem to me that they do.
	And, in fact, you could really make the case, in particular, when some people are shot by accident as part of a drive-by or something like that, Well, that's kind of an unambiguous victim situation, whereas, you know, a lot of the shootings, it just seems to be a little bit more complex than, you know, angelic young black man shot by racist cop for no reason whatsoever.
	You know, when the facts come out, it often seems to be a little bit more complex than that.
	You know, like Alton Sterling shouldn't have had a gun.
	He seems to have had a gun and, you know, rap shoot a mile long and all the other stuff I talked about with Charles Johnson today.
	People can check that out.
	But, you know, I mean, if some kid, you know, you read these stories in the black neighborhoods that some kid got shot by accident in some drive-by.
	Well, damn, I mean, shouldn't people be all, I mean, that kid certainly did nothing, nothing whatsoever to deserve that fate and did not lift a finger to compel anything in that direction.
	And where are the protests for that?
	Well, I hate to say it, but I just, I don't know if there's much money in that.
	But the argument against that, oh, you want to say something?
	I was going to add on to that.
	I don't know if you read the story about the two toddlers who died defending their older sisters from rapists.
	Tell me.
	I'm always happy to hear another god-awful story.
	What's the story?
	I don't know.
	It's old, actually.
	Not too old, but a fifth-grade girl and her Younger brother at the house and a classmate of hers that came over and attempted to rape her and he beat her to death.
	I mean, beat him to death when he was trying to defend his older sister.
	The second story, I can't really remember, but I know it was two really young black kids that were killed defending their older sisters.
	I mean, it's not hugely relevant, but was it from a black rapist?
	Yes, from a black rapist, yeah.
	Right.
	Okay, so that is an unambiguous tragedy that should leave no dry eye in the audience.
	You know, my heart's just breaking in a thousand pieces even thinking about this god-awful situation.
	So, you know, where are the protests with regards to that?
	That was more upsetting to me than just for most recent.
	But what do you think?
	You know what I'm saying?
	The argument against that was somewhat, if you bring up black-on-black crime, somebody would say, well, the police, you know, swore on oath to protect the community, right?
	So the police, we have to hold the police to a higher standard than the criminals.
	Well...
	Well, first of all, there are arguments to be made, and we don't have to delve deep into them, but there are arguments to be made that the police are protecting the community.
	That's part of their job, right?
	I mean, Philando Castile, right, he matched the description of a guy, a black guy, of course, who robbed a convenience store at gunpoint and stole a bunch of stuff.
	So by stopping him and questioning him, that cop was protecting the community, right?
	I mean, with regards to Mike Brown, right?
	I mean, Darren Wilson stopped him because he's walking down the middle of the street.
	He matches the description of the strong-arm robbery of the convenience store where he pushed that guy into the rack.
	And he's got the Swisher Sweets cigars in his hand.
	So he is protecting the community.
	And then, you know, Darren Wilson gets attacked and charged and all that.
	And so I don't know.
	I mean, that's just sort of off the top of my head.
	It's like, how do we know that they're not protecting the community?
	Certainly up front before the information, the details come out, right?
	Right, right.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I mean, we just take everyone's word who's with these people.
	And Dorian Johnson says he was shot execution-style in the back while begging for his life.
	And, you know, now this woman is saying, oh, my fiancé, she got his age wrong, and he apparently isn't her fiancé.
	This lavish diamond.
	Reynolds says, oh, this is what happened.
	And it's like, well, it's just true, no matter what.
	And it's like, no, that's why we have a legal system.
	That's why we have innocent until proven guilty.
	That's why we withhold judgment.
	Until the facts come in.
	And the woman who's there, maybe she's telling the truth.
	Maybe she's not.
	We don't know yet.
	But everybody just, ah, she's telling the truth.
	And nobody cross-examines her.
	Nobody questions her.
	Now, can you imagine if the white cop was saying what happened?
	Well, the white cop has said what happened.
	I told him not to reach for it.
	You can hear it in the video.
	I told him not to reach for it.
	Now, he's saying what happened.
	Who's listening to him?
	Right.
	Right.
	Well, I don't think we should listen to him, and I don't think we should listen to her.
	We should wait for an investigation.
	I mean, Lord knows we don't want, you know, white people in these situations, even though this guy is Latino and even though the other guy, I think, was born in China.
	You know, white people should be presumed innocent.
	Until proven guilty.
	Why?
	And black people should want that.
	Because if we break that rule, black people are going to suffer too.
	Do black people want all black people to be assumed guilty until proven innocent?
	No, of course not.
	That's barbarism.
	Sorry, that was...
	I don't know if I just broke your ears.
	RIP headphone users.
	Sorry.
	The difference between these shootings and the past shootings is that it appears, just watching the video, that the black man didn't do anything wrong.
	It was a late night comedian, I forget his name, Trevor Noah, he was saying basically, you know...
	The video is right in your face.
	You know, you don't need to look at anything else.
	The video is right in your face.
	So if you literally say, you know, wait a second, or maybe the cops should be charged, you're, you are, you know, you're being, you're blankly being racist.
	Because it's the video.
	Wait, do you mean the Alton Sterling video?
	Why would you need anything else?
	The video is right there.
	You mean the Alton Sterling video?
	Yes.
	But the guy resisted arrest.
	He was apparently armed and he was grabbing for his gun or for the cop's gun.
	I mean, what the hell do people think is going to happen?
	I do that, I'm going to get shot.
	Sorry, just to mention something again and then I'll shut up.
	But Philando Castile, right?
	The guy had been pulled over at least 50 odd times before.
	For a wide variety of, you know, driving without a license, all the stuff that we talked about in the video, 50 times he'd been pulled over before.
	Miraculously, he was still alive.
	He had not been shot by being pulled over 50 odd, 50 plus times before.
	Now, the one time he has a gun...
	And he's assumed, or he's not assumed, but he's pulled over because of his resemblance to an armed robber.
	We don't know.
	Again, there's some contention about we don't know.
	We'll figure it out over time.
	So, if it's like, well, the cops are just hunting, why do they wait for the 55th time that they pull him over?
	We don't even know how many times he was pulled over and didn't get a ticket, just got a warning or whatever.
	50-odd, 50, I think it's 55 times or whatever, he actually got ticketed for something before.
	So, you know, if they just want to pull over, why wait so long until, well, he just has a gun, and according to the cop, he reaches for it, and that is a very dangerous thing to do.
	So, I'm just saying.
	Right.
	But people want to jump to conclusions.
	And that is a dangerous thing to do.
	That is a very dangerous thing to do.
	And of course, you know, black history, as we know, in America, there were lynchings.
	And that was people jumping to conclusions and destroying people's lives and sometimes killing blacks outright without a due process of law.
	And that was a horrible injustice that happened.
	And we should remember that.
	Right.
	Saban, can you hear me?
	Yes, yes.
	I think when my dad said that the Castro guy, he didn't follow the procedures for conceal and carry.
	He was supposed to put his hands on the dashboard before even saying anything and telling the officer, like, you know, he has a gun, he has a conceal and carry, blah, blah, blah stuff before anything, before any conversation.
	And you're supposed to be trained on that, right?
	So if you get a concealed carry permit, they say, here's exactly what you need to do if you're stopped by a cop and you're carrying with your concealed permit.
	You need to do A, B, C, X, Y, Z.
	And I don't know that there's any proof he did any of those things.
	But we'll, you know, we'll see as the investigation goes forward.
	So, again, look, I mean, maybe this cop is a horrible racist and maybe, but we don't, you know, I can't say.
	I mean, because I want, I don't, like, whatever protections I take away from other people, heaven forbid I'm ever accused of some god-awful crime.
	I want those same protections for me in the future.
	I don't want people jumping to conclude, oh, yeah, Steph did strangle that kitten, just like that guy said.
	You know, I don't want people jumping to that conclusion.
	Wait for the facts.
	Wait for the facts.
	At this point, it's so sensationalized and so emotional.
	When something comes out like that, there are no facts at this point.
	It's just the feeling and people act on it and do posts, whatever.
	All right.
	So this is something that sort of went viral.
	And I'll just read it briefly.
	And whether this is true or not, I don't know.
	But it seems sort of interesting, maybe sort of a discussion point.
	So this guy says, so I'm driving to my office to turn in my weekly paperwork.
	A headlight is out.
	I see a Tucson Police Department squad vehicle turn around and follow me.
	I'm already preparing for the stop.
	The lights go on and I pull over.
	The officer asks me how I'm doing and then asks if I have any weapons.
	He says, yes, sir.
	I'm a concealed carry permit holder, and my weapon is located on my right hip.
	My wallet is in my back right pocket.
	The officer explains.
	For his safety in mind, he needs to disarm me for the stop.
	I understand, and I unlock the vehicle.
	I explain that I'm running a 7TS ALS holster, but from the angle, the second officer can't unholster it.
	Lead officer asks me to step out, and I do so slowly.
	Officer relieves me of my Glock and complements the X300U, I'm running on it.
	I don't know what that is.
	Some kind of video card, I guess.
	He also sees my military ID and I tell him I'm with the National Guard.
	Lead officer points out my registration card is out of date, but he knows my registration is up to date.
	He goes back to run my license.
	I know he's got me on at least two infractions.
	I'm thinking about how to pay them.
	Officers return with my Glock in an evidence bag, locked and cleared.
	They say, because you were cool with us and didn't give us grief, I'm just going to leave it at a verbal one and get that headlight fixed as soon as possible.
	I smile.
	Thank you, sir.
	He says, I'm a black man wearing a hoodie and strapped.
	According to certain social movements, I shouldn't be alive right now because the police allegedly are out to kill minorities.
	Maybe, just maybe, that notion is bunk.
	Maybe if you treat police officers with respect, they will do the same to you.
	Police officers are people too.
	By far and large, most are good people and they're not out to get you.
	I'd like to thank those two officers and TPD in general for another professional contact.
	And, um...
	So, again, this is something that's been sort of floating around, and I do think that it's important to remember.
	If this guy had a concealed carry, then there were very specific things that he needed to do in order to maintain his safety.
	And we will find out over time.
	It could be anything from, like, it could range anywhere from he was innocent and there's some horrible cop bad decision, in which case the cop will be charged with murder and the trial will go forward and we'll see what happens.
	It could be that he may have had contraband in the car.
	Maybe he was, you know, the guy who robbed this convenience store.
	Maybe he had a gun and he had weed and, you know, whatever in the car.
	Maybe he was high and maybe he recognized that his life was about to change enormously and he just maybe made a really bad set of decisions.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	But we cannot be rushing to judgment because...
	We then, it's ruled by mob.
	It's not ruled by facts.
	And do you see a backlash against Black Lives Matter?
	Well, okay.
	So let's, I'm just, look, I'm just going to tell you guys what I think.
	I mean, I'm glad that you called in and I'm glad that you want to call in because, you know, we want to have honest discussions about these things.
	So when you say, your question was sort of, what is the state of black and white relations after the These two shootings.
	Is there a war between whites and blacks or police and blacks?
	I don't think so.
	I don't think so.
	Because look, there is a significant element of criminality within the black community.
	And I've talked about reasons for that, some cultural, perhaps some biological.
	We don't know, right?
	We don't know all of the threads.
	But there is a big element, a significant criminal element within the black community.
	Now, I'm just going to talk about that element.
	I'm not going to pretend that there aren't also significant elements of criminality within the white community, and maybe there are three Asian criminals, these eight, I don't know.
	So there's the big criminal element within the black community, and who is the natural enemy of that criminal element?
	It's the police, right?
	And so the degree to which that criminal element can paralyze the police is the degree to which they're going to be It's going to be easier for them to be criminals.
	And we can see this from the focus, in effect, which is that when there are these riots and when there are these uprisings and all of that, and when police get charged, you know, like they did in Freddie Gray, like they did with Walter Scott and all these things.
	And again, we'll see how that goes through.
	Another charge was just thrown out today.
	Three of the officers have been acquitted, so it's not looking well for the prosecution.
	But the criminal element within the black community is at war with the police.
	Of course they are.
	Of course they are.
	I mean, that's their natural enemy.
	But is that the blacks and the whites?
	No.
	You know, the majority of blacks are law-abiding, decent, great people, right?
	So I don't think there's a war between whites and blacks or police and blacks.
	I think there's a war between criminals and police and And for a variety of reasons, there's a higher concentration of criminals within the black community than other communities.
	So naturally, there's going to be a war on cops from the criminal elements within the black community.
	Now, please understand, I'm not saying everyone who has a problem with cops in the black community is a criminal.
	I'm not saying that.
	I'm just saying from the sort of natural, it's a predator-prey relationship.
	And they're both tussling for superiority.
	So, I don't think there's a war between whites and blacks.
	I think there's a war between criminals and law-abiding citizens.
	And there has been since the beginning of time.
	And until everybody's raised peacefully, parent-y, and all that kind of stuff, it's going to continue.
	So, to me, I just look at it as criminals versus cops.
	And it manifests in the black community for a variety of reasons more.
	But I don't view it as blacks versus whites or police versus blacks.
	I just view it as criminals versus those who would like to put them in jail.
	I can understand the motivations of both sides.
	Does that make any sense?
	It does.
	It does.
	Yeah.
	But as far as like whites...
	No, see, there's no need to say but because I just solved everything.
	No, I'm just kidding.
	No, but between whites and blacks, right?
	So you know how feminists, right?
	Feminists are starting to piss off a lot of men, right?
	Because we're like, listen, y'all have y'all rights, y'all can do whatever you want to do, especially in the West, but you all are still talking about patriarchy, right?
	And to be fair, sorry to interrupt, but they're also pissing off a lot of women.
	Like the number of feminists in England has just dropped enormously, and now it's a relatively tiny percentage.
	So they're also annoying the hell of a lot of women too, but sorry, come on.
	Right.
	And you talked about how...
	Eventually, men, if a war goes on in Europe between the Muslims and the native population, or if the government goes bankrupt, women, it's going to go back to its natural state, and women naturally, if you want to have a baby, are going to naturally need a man to provide and have resources, right?
	So as far as whites and blacks, and men, If men are continually fed up with this, like you have the mixed-out group, the people who just don't want to date women or whatever.
	If they're continually fed up with this, then they're not going to want to protect and mate with women.
	I see the same thing with...
	I guess, I don't know, I don't want to say just blacks and whites, but blacks and everybody else.
	Particularly black men and everybody else.
	For example...
	We know the facts about, you know, black criminality.
	You know, like 50 plus percent are committing, black men, 50 plus percent are committing like most of the crime.
	And as the media continues to say it's white people's fault, it's white people's fault, but the facts are still out there and you have people on the internet or Facebook spreading those facts.
	People are going to eventually get fed up.
	And I think the Black Lives Matter movement or whatever pro-black movement, they're going to be the people who are going to be on the receiving end eventually of the backlash.
	Right?
	So, men were on the receiving end of the feminist movement, right?
	But eventually, it's going to be feminists who are going to be like, it's going to be feminists who are going to look stupid.
	For example, the left, like Milo, you're not going to talk about this, like the left, it's going to be weird to say I'm a leftist or I'm a liberal because they just keep doing dumb stuff.
	And eventually you're going to look stupid and people are going to be like, you know, they're going to feel ashamed to say they're a left.
	The same way a conservative feels ashamed to say they're a conservative.
	Well, I think a lot of people, I think the Black Lives Matter people or the pro-black people, eventually are going to be on there receiving end of that backlash from, I guess, you know, from white people, from different groups.
	And you can see it even with black women, for example, at least online, anyway.
	So there was this video, this black woman on YouTube, talking about how, you know, this guy was a rapist.
	He's one of those thugs who rape people, one of those stereotypical black thugs.
	It's like, why the hell would I have sympathy for this guy?
	So a lot of black women are waking up to it because, you know, a lot of, you know, black guys, I mean, we do...
	A lot of stupid things.
	And we hurt our community in different ways.
	And I understand that a lot of them come from single moms.
	And you can blame a single mom.
	However, at some point, you know, the black man or a black woman, you can't cry foul anymore, right?
	And you're going to be left hanging in the dry.
	And that scares me a little bit.
	Because I'm black.
	You know, I'm a black man.
	And...
	I mean, it scares me, but it gives me hope because I can't make excuses anymore.
	You know, like eventually, I don't know, it could be 10 years from now or 20 years from now, but people are going to look at black men, or particularly black men, because we commit all this crime.
	Like, black women, they're going to college, they're getting their jobs, they're doing everything right.
	You know, and the black men, you call them mammies, and there's grandmoms, there's moms who don't hold their black boys to, I guess, like, highest status as the girls.
	And I know that's creating a lot of hatred, and some will argue justified hatred, that a lot of black women Our experience.
	Because a lot of black women are like, why the hell am I keep protesting for you guys, but you guys continually call us, you know, bitches, hoes, you know, you're not marrying us, you just want to have sex with us.
	So, I don't know, I just feel like we're going to be left hanging high and dry.
	And the same thing, I don't want to get off topic, but the same thing is happening with, well, it's not happening, but the same thing with the Muslims in Europe.
	I'm telling you, these Muslims who are out here raping these women in Europe, the families who are not talking I'm not speaking out about it.
	There are going to be ones who are going to be left ass out when these white people start to get fed up.
	And they're like, yo, y'all can't do this anymore.
	Period.
	Y'all can't do this anymore.
	So I feel like a lot of people, black people, should speak up now against this stuff, knowing that it's wrong, but not saying anything.
	Because when the tides turn, you're going to know what it's going to feel like to be verbally abused.
	The excuse isn't going to be in it anymore.
	Right.
	Jasmine, you wanted to add to that?
	Yeah, go ahead.
	I don't want to add.
	I'm used to it.
	So, you know, I always talk to him about stuff like this.
	And as far as from a black woman perspective, I, because of the narrative I've been fed my whole life practically about white people, it's just, as far as like Dating outside of my race or viewing, you know, black men better or something like that.
	I always view it is strange, kind of like, as far as talking to a white guy, just kind of because of what I've been told.
	It doesn't matter if he's cute or not.
	It's just like, you're white.
	But at the same time, I feel like black women Shouldn't fear dating outside of their race.
	I feel like we've been told to, you know, stick with our race, get strong black men, blah, blah, blah.
	And it's really based on color, not so much as character.
	And I know other women who won't date outside of their race simply based off, you Right, right.
	No, and I mean, I think it would be a little easier to date within your own race if there were more, if you say, find a strong black man, that there were more sort of strong, stable, well-educated, good providers kind of thing floating around, then it would be A little easier, right?
	But it can be kind of slim pickings, I think, for when black women sort of look at the pool of men who are around right within the race.
	It can be a challenge, right?
	Yeah.
	At least here in America.
	You've got to get out of America, though.
	Right.
	Now, can I just jump back to Torian, because I haven't nagged him in at least 12 minutes.
	Is that all right?
	That's no problem.
	So, Tori, a little white knighting there.
	Oh, you know, the black men are making bad decisions, a lot of them, but the black women are all making great decisions.
	It's like, I don't think those single mother households are coming about because women are hugging houseplants, you know?
	Yeah.
	Right?
	So, I mean, the sort of 73% illegitimacy, right?
	You know, if black women said no until the dad, you know, put a ring on it, right?
	And marry me and stick around and all that.
	Yeah.
	Then that would help a lot, right?
	I mean, if you're gonna, you know, sleep with unconstant men, then you can't really complain about unconstant men.
	Women are the gatekeepers of sexuality, always have been, and I imagine always will be.
	And so if they're willing to have unprotected sex with these men, I don't think it's, you know, just the men who are messing up.
	It's just more obvious with the men, right?
	Because they'll go out and steal things directly, but the women, through the welfare state, will just use the power of the state to transfer resources.
	It looks a whole lot more civilized, but some of the effects are the same.
	Yeah, that's true.
	It's just that you can't, when you're talking to black people, you really can't, Say that because...
	Oh, you can't say that to white women either.
	It's not a black thing.
	I mean, when I hold single bonds responsible, it doesn't matter.
	I mean, it doesn't matter what race they are, you're going to get dumped on no matter what.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	But I think it's easier to say that to white people, though, than black people.
	That's because you're not white!
	I'm sorry.
	Go look at the comments underneath my single mom videos.
	That's very wisely said.
	I think we should be holding these ladies' responses.
	It's like, they're heroes!
	You're a misogynist!
	But maybe it is more difficult than the black.
	I don't mean to tell you what it's like in the black community, but it doesn't seem that easy in the white community.
	And anyways, I said this to Diamond and Silk, right?
	The white community is like one generation behind the black community in terms of family disintegration.
	There's a majority of, I think, white kids now are born, in New York at least, are born to women under 30, a majority are born outside of wedlock.
	Will this change?
	But, you know, one thing, I just love what you said, Tori, and you said, basically, I'm scared and hopeful at the same time.
	And that is, that's genius, man, I'm telling you, because that really boils it down to the essence of You know, we all know social change is coming.
	We all know $20 trillion of debt and aging population.
	You know, we just know that big changes are coming.
	And we're all scared.
	But it is hope for change, right?
	Yep.
	And so I just wanted to really point out that was like the boom thing that you said in there.
	Sorry, Jasmine, you were saying?
	I said that was Obama's slogan.
	Change, thank you.
	Obama's slogan.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I remember.
	Yeah.
	Hope he changed you.
	And yeah, I mean, things can't continue the way they are.
	As far, you know, I have no idea what white people as a whole think other than generally badly, which is why there's the need for this show for everyone.
	But I do think this is what I think is the most likely sort of things that are going to occur to people.
	Yeah.
	At some point, you know, I've said this about the welfare state when I did a show about Bernie Sanders.
	More money has been transferred to poor people than existed in the world a couple of decades ago.
	And, you know, the welfare state is kind of like the single mom state.
	And at some point, we have to say, is it working?
	Is it working?
	Is it working?
	Right.
	Is it working?
	Now, I know with the state, the state never has to say, is it working?
	They don't care.
	If it succeeds, you get more money.
	If it fails, you get more money.
	There's a pattern in there.
	I just can't quite put my finger on it.
	So at some point, we're going to have to say, is this working?
	Now, the question for me, you know, for the relations between the races, and there's lots of complex relations between the races, but just sort of putting it to blacks and whites...
	Blacks get a lot more out of the system than they pay in, and whites pay a lot more into the system than they get out, in general.
	And at some point, we have to ask, is it working?
	And if the level of complaints after trillions and trillions of dollars have been transferred to the black community, if the level of complaints is we need to shoot cops because they're hunting us, clearly something isn't working with what we're doing, right?
	And that's going to need to change.
	Now, that change is going to be rough.
	And in particular, you know, people have made bad decisions like single motherhood and not getting educated and so on.
	While there's all this money flowing in, if that money stops flowing in, people will get really crazy for a while and it won't be too long.
	And then they'll shake it off and sort of get back to the business of making better decisions and getting on with their lives.
	But at some point, it's going to be like, you know, we've had a couple of decades of affirmative action.
	We'd have a couple of decades of massive wealth transfers to the black community.
	We've had a couple of decades of pouring money into these Communities are just to find out that they're getting worse, because it's a government program.
	And, you know, to me, it's not particular to blacks.
	You pour that much money into any community, you're going to dissolve.
	The basic fabric of that community is going to dissolve.
	But going up to the election...
	You know, as Trump, if Trump pulls ahead, and he seems to be pulling ahead in some states, certainly among younger people, and if there is a transfer of allegiance from Bernie bots to the Trump train, rather than to Queen Kankles, then what's going to happen is the Democrats are going to get insane.
	The Democrats are going to go mental because...
	And the Republicans are kind of three steps behind them in terms of hostility to Trump, right?
	So I think it was Sarah Palin who called the Republicans against Trump, the RATs, the rats.
	So, you know, Trump is threatening the entire setup, the entire vote-buying system, the entire military, industrial, welfare, warfare, lobbyist complex.
	He's threatening the whole damn thing.
	And if Hillary Clinton starts to really slip...
	And if Donald Trump gathers more Bernie Sanders fans, then the Democrats are going to panic.
	And it's not, I mean, who cares if the Democrats panic?
	The media is going to panic.
	And what does the media do in order to get black votes?
	You guys know as well as I do.
	See it.
	What does it do to get black victims?
	They race bait, right?
	Yeah.
	They start promoting all these shootings and racist white people and black victimhood and they just start to work to destabilize.
	Because when a society is destabilized, it looks for continuity and leadership.
	Now, I don't think Obama's going to get a third term.
	It's not a world war.
	But I think they're going to say, well, the more we destabilize society, the more people are going to want the Democrats to continue.
	And they'll stop at nothing to stay in power.
	And so I think, you know, August and September in particular have the potential to be really brutal.
	And that's going to be very ugly.
	And that's the degree to which I think the Democrats just don't give a shit about the black community and will just use them whichever way they can, regardless of how many lives get destroyed, just to maintain their grip on power.
	Yeah, that's bad.
	And I know the national, the GOP convention, there is the new Black Panther Party.
	They're thinking about, because I think they say it's an open carry state.
	I think about protests in there.
	And I wouldn't be surprised if somebody gets shot.
	I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than that, but we'll certainly see as far as that goes.
	You know, Trump has been largely abstract in the periphery to some degree, but now that Sanders is out of the race, it becomes Hillary versus the Donald.
	And there's going to be a lot of escalation prior to the election.
	And Again, I'm scared and hopeful.
	You know, I think you nailed it right there.
	And we'll see.
	You know, I've sort of nagged at feminists to, you know, that women sort of have to sort of attack this because it's easy to attack men who attack feminists as misogynists or whatever.
	And, of course...
	Black is not an ideology or anything like that, but I think that to some degree, blacks are going to have to take on Black Lives Matter or other sort of more aggressive groups.
	Because if blacks don't, then I think other races are going to say, well, either you agree with them or you're scared of them, but either way, it doesn't look good.
	Well, I just hope I'll be able to To study abroad for the spring because, you know, I overhear my dad listening to Infowars and I get so paranoid listening to Alex Jones.
	Well, I think that these kinds of conversations are very, very helpful.
	I mean, I don't just do them because I enjoy them.
	I do enjoy them and I really appreciate you guys calling in.
	But I think these kinds of conversations are really, really helpful because, you know, you want to live in a free and peaceful society.
	I want to live in a free and peaceful society.
	And we have that in common and that's how we get to a free and peaceful society.
	Whereas I think the media is trying to portray this narrative that we are just sort of fundamentally incompatible And yet we should all be jammed together, right?
	Because the media, basically, if after 400 years of blacks and whites trying to live together, whites are just hunting blacks for sport, then we all need different countries.
	Like, clearly, you know, I mean, if you've been married for 30 years, and you're going after each other with crossbows, it might be time to get a divorce.
	And I certainly know that there are people who are talking about that.
	I'm sure – I know on the black community, the side, some elements are saying, oh, let's go to the south and let's get our own state or let's get our own land and we just sort of have our own country and so on.
	Well, if this – if we're sort of incompatible biologically or culturally or racially or something like that, then isn't separation the logical thing to do?
	Now, when we have conversations like this where people can say, look, here's black and white people talking and we want the same things and we're willing to be open and honest in our discussions of these things.
	Doesn't that mean that there's a compatibility that we can continue to explore that takes the tension down a little bit?
	Right, right.
	True.
	Yeah, it definitely opposes the narrative, particularly when white people and black people are agreeing about something and disagree with the mainstream media.
	I mean, they hate that stuff to their core, so it pisses them off.
	Yeah, and look, it's not like the black people dodging bullets in Cleveland or Philly are having a great time.
	They want free and peaceful and secure environments to raise their children in, and they want good education.
	You know, when I talk about privatizing education, people think that somehow that means that the poor won't get educated.
	It's like, no!
	Privatizing education, getting the government out of education, would be...
	Like, the single greatest thing that could happen to the black community, except maybe the end of welfare or whatever instead of private charity replacing it.
	But it's because rich families, smart families, whatever, of black or white or whoever, well, if the schools are crappy, then the parents make up for it at home.
	Because, you know, the parents sit and read and, you know, talk about things and all that and educate their kids through that way.
	And this is why it works well.
	But for poorer families, if this quality of education isn't great, that's the best chance that their kids have to break that cycle.
	And so, you know, when I sort of say, well, let's privatize education and so on, people think this is somehow negative to the poor.
	This is the very most positive thing that could possibly happen to the poor because that's where the most difference can occur.
	And the last thing I wanted to mention, I'll give you guys, of course, the final word, but the last thing I wanted to mention is, I don't know if you've watched the video of lavish diamond Reynolds smoking Marijuana in her car with this, I think she's four, her daughter, in the backseat.
	And, oh, I gotta tell you, that stuff, you know, looking at this scared, worried, frustrated, lonely, half-broken, broken-hearted face of this little girl.
	Like, there's at one point she's just, you know, she's pouting and voguing for the camera and all that, and at one point it sort of goes up over and you can see that.
	And somebody did a sort of freeze shot of that poor little girl.
	And the amount of sort of stress and chaos and worry and distraction.
	And there are other bits where she's, you know, admiring her butt in a selfie video and snarling at her kid and telling people don't have kids and all that kind of stuff with her daughter in the room.
	And it's like, that to me, you know, oh man, nobody, nobody, nobody should have that.
	I don't care where you're coming from, what color your skin is.
	Nobody should be having parenting like that.
	And I just think...
	How much better things could be all around if that kid had some love and some security and some positivity and all of that.
	That, to me, is the, you know, that's the real victim.
	I mean, obviously, he's not getting shot.
	It's nothing that dramatic.
	But that poor girl, and that, like, literally haunts my, like, I close my eyes and I see that girl's face.
	And it is really, really...
	Heartbreaking in a very fundamental way.
	And, of course, the black community wants that girl to be treated better, and the white community, everybody wants that girl to be treated better.
	And this is where she was.
	And this is the future that she was facing, and this is the situation that she was in.
	And who wouldn't want that cycle to be broken?
	Whatever the race of the people, that's just, it's horrible to see a child treated that way.
	And anything that I can do, you know, as I... With the George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin video, like over a million people and a lot of blacks saw a really strong peaceful parenting message and we get messages about people of all races changing their parenting for the better and that's what I want us to get out of this.
	Not, you know, the cops are hunting black people like animals and this and that and the other and let's just say we're in a mess.
	We can't fix it right away, but let's at least start committing to treating our children better.
	Without that, I just, I don't see any way to reverse it.
	And that's my sort of big takeaway, but I'll sort of give you guys the last word on this, at least for now.
	At least I've solved everything, but go ahead.
	That video, I mean, what you just said about that girl, that pisses me off because there's a lot of, you know, single moms and dads in the hood.
	Who treat their children like shit, but they want to cry victim.
	It's like, you're all crappy.
	It's like, I don't know.
	It pisses me off.
	Because you can cry victim all day long.
	Nobody's going to hold you responsible.
	And you can be shitty to your child.
	Like, that's ridiculous.
	Yeah.
	And I don't really have any last words.
	And now what?
	I don't have any last words, but I guess.
	Yeah, go for it.
	Thanks, I guess.
	I don't know what to say.
	He wanted me to come online with him.
	Come on, Jasmine.
	Let's solve all of these problems.
	It's up to you.
	It all comes down to you.
	The entire inverted tip of the pyramid is resting on your next few...
	No, I'm just kidding.
	No, I appreciate the call, though.
	I appreciate you guys calling in.
	I really do.
	And, you know, anytime you want to call back in, let's keep the conversation going.
	This is...
	Healing and positive stuff, I think, for lots of people, and I'm always glad to have these kinds of conversations.
	You know, it's good people of every race and ethnicity and gender and culture.
	It's good people who are going to solve this, and we need to keep talking.
	Thank you, Saban.
	Thanks, Saban.
	Well, thank you guys so much, and I'm sure we'll talk again soon.
	Take care, and let's move on to the next caller.
	Alright, up next is Sally.
	Sally wrote in and said, That's from Sally.
	It's a great question.
	And like all great questions, it has a yes and a no component to it.
	But is there anything you wanted to add or maybe your own personal experience with these things?
	Sure.
	Well, I'm open to adding a little bit about my personal experience, if you're open to listening to that.
	I am.
	All right.
	So I've noticed that I've been in a relationship with a man for the past two years.
	And When I first entered the relationship, I wasn't looking to get married or have kids.
	That wasn't my intention.
	That wasn't even on my radar of anything that I wanted to do at the time.
	As the relationship progressed and as we were growing together and growing within ourselves, I developed much stronger feelings for this man.
	He's someone that has qualities and virtues that I would look for in A husband.
	Because, you know, growing within myself and, you know, getting therapy, listening to your show, and overcoming a lot of my own childhood traumas, you know, I want that in my life.
	I want to have kids and raise them to be high-quality, functioning human beings.
	And I want to add, you know, that value into the world and empower the world, not only myself, but, you know, through the next generation.
	So...
	So I love the person that I'm with, like I said.
	But on the other hand, he has financial struggles.
	And I find that when he's not doing so well financially, I don't feel as sexually charged and attracted to him.
	It's really difficult for me to get that part of myself connected with him when he's going through financial...
	Difficulty.
	So that's why I asked the question, is I was wondering if it has to do with biology or does it have to do with an aspect of my character?
	Yeah, I mean, obviously if he's having financial difficulties and not doing a lot of sit-ups, that's a bad combo.
	That's a bad combo, but that's very interesting.
	So do you mind if I go out on a limb and make a guess or two?
	Go ahead.
	Okay, so Sally, Sally, Sally, Sally, when you were younger, even younger, I must say that because it's only fair.
	So when you were younger and you weren't interested in kids, family and all that, did you go for the pretty boys, the bad boys?
	What was your standard for choosing to date or sleep with a man when you were younger?
	Okay, so I went for...
	Men who are either highly attractive or men who were highly successful and older.
	Huh.
	Interesting.
	So you went for the hotties or the sugar daddies, to put it bluntly?
	Right.
	And that's because I wasn't interested in having a full-blown relationship with them.
	I was noncommittal.
	It was very casual.
	And as far as attractiveness goes, and I don't need to give you the speech about false modesty, but on a 1 to 10, when you were in this dating phase, I'm sure it's the same now, but how would you have rated yourself or how do you think other people would have rated you in terms of physical attractiveness?
	I would say an 8.
	An 8.
	All right.
	Now, the older men who were in your dating circle, were they interested in settling down with you or was it mostly, as you say, kind of casual?
	Yeah, there was a couple that were, but I wasn't interested in the same thing.
	Right, so they would have married you.
	Do you think that they wanted to have kids with you?
	I don't know about if they wanted to have kids with me, per se, because the conversation didn't get that far.
	And I will also add that I've never lived with a man.
	I haven't been in a relationship and lived with someone.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Now, did they spend lots of money on you?
	Some did and some didn't.
	So that wasn't really my criteria for being with them.
	Although I will say that I thoroughly enjoyed when they did.
	So when you say some did and some didn't, do you mean of the wealthier, older man, some did and some didn't?
	Or do you mean the young layabout hotties?
	Exactly.
	So if the man was older, I would By older, I mean maybe 15 years older than me.
	I wouldn't date someone that much older unless they had a very established career.
	I'm just enjoying the phrase where I'm talking to someone young enough that plus 15 is still way younger than me.
	I'm just enjoying that hard little time wrinkle.
	Ugh!
	I'm just turning my good ear so I can hear the rest of what you're saying.
	Okay, so you've got a sort of 15-year window, and the older guys who had resources, some of them, I mean, would spend money on you.
	And you felt cherished or attractive or positive when they did, right?
	Right.
	I felt validated.
	I felt like, well, they were paying attention to me, right?
	And...
	No, they were spending money on you.
	Lots of people can pay attention to you, but it doesn't give you that special thrill.
	It's nothing.
	I'm not criticizing.
	I'm just sort of pointing it out.
	Right.
	But also, in hindsight, I also felt like I owed them sexual favors because who I was wasn't enough.
	And so there would be that pressure for an exchange as well.
	Right.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm going to have to disagree with you on one thing.
	Okay.
	I just saw the profile pic.
	Yeah, it's a nine.
	Easy.
	Easy nine.
	Easy nine.
	All right.
	Okay.
	So they would buy you stuff and you would feel...
	Would you feel sort of like that made you sort of sexually attracted to them?
	Or did you feel like, well, they bought me stuff, so I owe them sexual favors?
	Yeah.
	It was a little bit of both, I would say.
	Okay.
	And what then happened with these older men?
	Did they expire?
	Sorry, I shouldn't say that.
	I shouldn't say that.
	I was the wrong age group for that.
	But did they just sort of wind down or did they want more and you didn't want to provide more or what happened?
	The last person that I was with that was significantly older than me, I was with him for about nine months and I wanted more of a connection with him, but he was not in the place to provide emotional connection.
	He was highly stressed in his life.
	He drank almost every day.
	He smoked weed every night.
	So I wanted something more for myself.
	He was someone that I did really enjoy.
	He had an open mind.
	But that was around the age mid-20s when I started shifting towards wanting something more profound for myself.
	So this guy had lots of money and he's just like a 40-year-old weedy?
	Yeah, pretty much.
	All right.
	Did he inherit the money?
	No, no.
	Did he get it selling weed?
	No, it doesn't matter.
	I'm just kidding.
	No, I don't know how he functioned in his daily life, but somehow he did.
	Well, he is 15 years older, but at least his mouth tastes like ashes.
	If you're on top and you have the urge to give CPR, it's usually not a good combo.
	The phrase I used with another woman was straddling a Nazgul, but she was much older than you, so that's different.
	Okay, so that sort of wound down.
	He's funny, funny that he does a lot of drugs and is emotionally unavailable.
	Right, right.
	I think that's the point.
	Exactly.
	I'm with someone now who's completely different and in many ways what I want in a lifelong partner.
	However, he's He's been experiencing financial struggles for the past couple of years.
	And so I find that...
	Oh, no.
	Is he a drummer?
	No, he's a small business owner.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah, and that's tough.
	In the Obama administration, it's tough to maintain that, right?
	Well, actually, we live in Canada.
	In the new...
	Well, you know...
	When America gets a cold, Canada sneezes, right?
	If he's got any cross-border stuff.
	I don't want to get into too much detail about his business, but is it kind of like he's waiting for a turnaround or he's hovering or he's not sure whether to continue?
	Sometimes he gets these bursts where he has more customers and he'll sustain that for maybe a couple of months and then business dries up.
	It's only him.
	He doesn't have any Boy, that's a lot of passive phrasing.
	Okay.
	No, I'm sorry.
	I mean, it's just a lot of passive phrasing.
	I mean, you know, it comes, it goes, you're kind of just unable to get traction and so on.
	I mean, I don't mean to be an annoying entrepreneurial guy, and maybe he's done all of this, but you just go out and you get the business.
	Like, you just, you do whatever it takes.
	You walk through brick walls if you have to.
	You advertise.
	You go door to door.
	You cold call.
	Like, you just, because, you know, people think that business is about selling stuff.
	No.
	Business is about finding people to sell to.
	That's all it's about.
	I mean, if you can sell to one person, you can sell to more than one person.
	And, you know, the amount of work that Mike and I, well, me first, and then with Mike and I, the amount of work that we do to try and figure out, you know, how to get new listeners.
	I mean, we've grown almost 400% since last year just in terms of YouTube views.
	That's not just an accident.
	Mike Cernovich talks a lot about this.
	You've got to be good at marketing.
	You've got to be good at getting customers.
	Having stuff to sell to them doesn't matter.
	You can be the most beautiful singer-songwriter in the world.
	If you can't get asses in the seats, it doesn't mean a damn thing.
	I don't know if he is doing this kind of stuff, but a lot of people like...
	They don't like the process of asking people to consume their goods, right?
	And you've got to embrace the no.
	In order to succeed in this world, you have to embrace the no.
	I mean, I got this way back when I was an actor.
	It doesn't matter how good you are, you go on a lot of auditions.
	And you mostly get no's.
	And same thing, you know, how many women did I ask out and date before I found the woman of my dreams?
	Well, a lot.
	And that's sort of how it rolls.
	Well, the business is like the rain.
	Sometimes it raineth.
	Sometimes it does not raineth.
	And sadly, there's no medicine dance I can do to make it rain.
	And as far as entrepreneurial stuff goes, if you're going to take that route, if you're not going to be a cog in a machine where other people do the uncomfortable cold calling business generation stuff, He's just, forget about the product.
	Forget about the sales.
	You simply have to go out and stuff the pipe with people who are willing to buy from you.
	And that means a lot of hustling and a lot of just getting used to people saying, no, listen, every show I ask for donations at freedomainradio.com slash donate.
	And, you know, sometimes like with...
	At the show I did with Bill Whittle recently, we talked quite a bit about the business side of what it is that I'm doing.
	And it's still a small number of people who donate.
	So the vast majority of people I ask to donate say...
	In my general direction.
	And that's the reality.
	You know, for a long time I would try and get people on the show and they'd be like, eh, you know, maybe, whatever.
	Right now it's, you know, we can pretty much get whoever we want.
	But that's because I was willing to take a lot of rejection and people not being interested in my tiny little podcast and so on.
	So I just don't want to get dragged off on that, but just, you know, you might want to have them listen to this.
	And the way to solve this kind of sputtering problem Half going, half not going business is just say, the only thing I'm going to do for the next three months is try and get business.
	Now, if you work three months, night and day, to try and get business, and you can't get business, then you know that there's probably nothing you can really do.
	And you're going to have to figure out whether to close up shop or live with this sputtering half business or not.
	But you just have to give it your all to go and talk to new people about what you can do for them.
	Get them involved in what you're doing.
	And in three months, you'll know whether or not your business can succeed or not.
	Because if you put that kind of focus in, and if you can't do it, maybe you can hire someone to do it.
	I don't know, right?
	If you're uncomfortable or hate it or whatever.
	Generally, you just got to grit your teeth and do it anyway.
	But...
	You know, you'll never get, like, 100% of the business you never ask for, you will not get.
	And you just have to commit to spending a huge...
	Like, early on in the business, I spent far more time generating listeners than making shows.
	Far more time generating listenership than actually making shows or writing books.
	And that's just...
	Because I have an entrepreneurial history, I know that it's all about getting the business.
	Once you have a product that someone will buy, all you have to do is just get it around to lots of people and see how many will buy.
	But that's how your guy is going to get closure.
	And I'm saying this to you because you're tied into his financial fortunes, especially if you've got two years invested in the relationship.
	And hopefully you listen to the show and you want to, you know, strap on the lady feed bags for your kids and stay home with them for a while and all that.
	You're going to need some financial stability.
	He's got to grit his teeth, wake up every morning and say, the only thing I'm doing today is trying to generate business.
	And you'll know very quickly whether you have control over that or not.
	And if you don't, then...
	The business is never going to succeed in any substantial or sustainable way.
	And if you do find that you can do it, then you can start to hire people and get the breakthrough and all that.
	But it is just about go out, pound the pavement, knock on the doors, get the business.
	And that way you'll figure out whether it's going to work or not.
	And that's why I was sort of just pointing out this very passive, you know, sometimes the tide comes in, sometimes the tide goes out.
	It's like, no, you got to go get behind that tide and push and pull.
	Right, yeah.
	And it's a really huge frustration and strain on our relationship, the fact that this happens.
	And, you know, I'm turning 29 in less than a month, and, you know, I'm getting older, and I would like to have kids, and I'd love to be able to stay home with them, even if I'm able to have a business from home at some point and work a few hours doing that.
	But, you know, I've watched your parenting shows, and...
	And they've really changed my life and changed my perception on how I would raise a child and the quality of mom that I want to be.
	So I do want to thank you for that.
	But yeah, this financial thing is a huge frustration.
	Oh, I'm trying to help you with that too.
	I'm trying to help you with that too.
	So yeah, have him listen to that.
	Well, have him listen to the whole thing, but definitely have him listen to that part.
	And if he wants to call in and talk about it, you know, I mean, this is my...
	I don't know how many of the successful business, so if he wants to call in and talk about it, I'm happy to do that.
	But he's got to dig in and figure out if it's going to work.
	This half stuff is the worst.
	You know, get no money and get out.
	Get a lot of money, stay in.
	You know, the plane that never takes off and never crashes is like neither a plane nor a car nor anything.
	It's just stressful.
	So I just wanted to mention that.
	All right.
	So your question around, have you watched the Gene Wars stuff at all, the R versus K stuff?
	Yes.
	Okay, good.
	Well, so I'm going to just, I mentioned this a lot.
	People got to go watch the Gene Wars stuff.
	It's just part of our vocabulary and you need to get up to speed if you haven't.
	It's the Gene Wars set of presentations.
	So, all right.
	Here we go.
	Is hypergamy rationally correlated with feelings of sexual desire and arousal?
	Well, hypergamy, I would divide into two categories, and it depends on the R versus K nature of the relationship.
	And this is why I was asking you, Sally, about your prior relationships, because your prior relationships were more R selected.
	Yes.
	Right?
	I mean, in that it was status, it was vanity, it was fun, it was short term, it was resource transfers, but it wasn't around settling down and having kids, right?
	Exactly.
	Right.
	So, for you, hypergamy there was either pretty guys or guys who can spend money on you.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I know we're simplifying, and I don't mean to put it just for the sake of, for me once in my godforsaken existence being concise.
	So, your hypergamy there was around status and resources, but not around long-term fundamental moral values.
	Right.
	Now...
	When you switch, and that's our selected, right?
	I mean, the rabbit doesn't care if the other rabbit is going to stick around for a long time and help raise the kids, because that's not what it's about.
	It's about just cranking out kids and cranking out kids.
	Like a day after a female rabbit gives birth, if you stroke their lower back, they raise their butt.
	It's like one day.
	Come on, people.
	Let's get it back on.
	We got some bunnies to make.
	We got some crows to feed.
	And so, yeah, they are selected.
	The hypergamy is mere physical fitness.
	Mere physical fitness.
	It is not much to do with Long-term, stable, in-depth values and ethics and commitment and all that.
	It's just physical, right?
	And this is why we live in sort of sexually, I think it's switching back.
	I just did a podcast about this today.
	It's the 70s and our selection or whatever.
	But it's kind of swinging back to case selection now because everyone recognizes, oh yes, the meme is true.
	Winter is coming.
	But people are switching back from R to K at the moment.
	But when things were purely R selected, it was just all about physical attractiveness, which is why, you know, 20% of the guys were getting 80% of the women, because they were all just flocking around, the pretty boys and the high-status boys and the, you know, snarly, contemptuous, you know, mirrored sunglasses kind of guys.
	This is probably really dating me as far as what's physically attractive.
	The Burt Reynolds mustache guy!
	Anyway, so...
	There was this R-selected stuff going on from the 70s through the noughties, like the 2000s.
	And now it's starting to switch back, not to get into why, but...
	So when you were younger, it was, you know, looks and resources, but nothing to do with long-term stable values.
	Now, hypergamy for you now is different than it was before, right?
	So hypergamy for you now is...
	To have a guy roughly your same age who's going to have resources.
	So before, the guy could be your same age.
	If he was pretty, he didn't have to have resources.
	If you had resources, you'd accept him being older than you because a man can buy his way into youth in the same way that a woman can breast augment herself into wealth.
	But actually, I think those are gross, but that's neither here nor there.
	So...
	Now you're looking for a guy who's contemporaneous with you, who's going to have the energy and youth to help you raise the kids, but he's got to have resources as well.
	Yes.
	So a man with more money, education, and status elicits a stronger sexual desire from a woman that lasts past the initial lust phase.
	So the initial lust phase, that's the R selection.
	Right.
	Now the K selection is the longer term, you know, stable, romantic, sexual, marital, parental relationship.
	Right.
	And, you know, everybody knows that when you have kids, your sex life is going to diminish, obviously, right?
	For a time, at least.
	And so, if you're just focusing on lust, then having kids, you know, when people focus on lust, the whole purpose of that, I think, and this is our selected thing as a whole, people focus on lust, ah, it's chemistry.
	Now, chemistry is some external physical marker of fitness that has nothing to do with long-term fitness.
	Parental qualities or whatever.
	He's hot, he's tall, he's dark, he's handsome, even features or he's got money, which means he's got some brains or whatever.
	So the initial lust phase is designed to have you collide, make babies, and then Because you're not having sex anymore and you're a lust-based life form, you move on to someone new.
	And that's the rabbit thing, right?
	That's the oyster thing, right?
	You just have a bunch of babies and move on to someone new, move on to someone new.
	Because you're focused on lust.
	And lust, once you have kids, you can't satisfy your lust anymore, so you move on to someone new, right?
	But once you have a mature, case-selected relationship, then it is the values of the person and the love and the intimacy and the connection and so on that keeps you bonded together For the sake of investing in the kids and doing all that case-selected long-term stuff that goes on.
	So, does a man with more money, education, and status, a stronger sexual desire that lasts past the initial lust phase?
	Yes.
	Yes, it certainly does, and that is the basis of pair-bonding, case-selected, you know, swans-that-mate-for-life kind of situation, but it's not gonna happen with you, I'm guessing, biologically, in a sustainable way until Your man gets his and your finances sorted out.
	Does that make sense?
	Right.
	And why would that be?
	Why would it be attached to the finances so much?
	Why can't I just still have that attraction and desire regardless of the financial situation?
	Because you're growing up.
	Because you've done, you've listened to this show, you've mentioned you've done therapy, Sally, you're growing up.
	Which means, see, when you grow up, and I'm sorry if this sounds condescending, I don't mean it to be, but when you grow up, you recognize that your sexual organs are not just recreational fun stuff, you know, that you can milk for orgasms and all that, just for your own particular organs.
	Pleasures, right?
	I mean, and there's nothing.
	Sex is great and wonderful and all of that.
	But we all know sex is about having kids.
	But the only reason we have orgasms is so that we can make kids.
	And the only reason that we have sexual desire is so that we can make kids.
	And so your sexual desire is now focused on children.
	That sounds really bad.
	Right?
	Let me rephrase that.
	Not towards children.
	No, no, no.
	The purpose of your sexuality now is to provide a stable nested environment for your future children, right?
	Does that make sense?
	Yes.
	And so what is your sexual desire focused on?
	Your sexual desire is focused on the value of a man who is going to be able to provide you the resources that you need in order to be able to stay home and be a good case-selected mom to your kids.
	Right.
	Right?
	So you're attracted to the guy because he's got a lot of great qualities.
	He'd be a good dad.
	But the ignition and true connection of your sexual contact with this guy, my guess, would not really sort of take root and really bond you guys together until there's more financial stability.
	That doesn't mean there always has to be financial stability.
	That doesn't mean that things can't change over time.
	You know, everybody has their ups and downs, you know, like that old song says.
	We're in the money sometimes.
	We're not in the money sometimes.
	And hopefully it's not that random.
	But your sexual desire is focused on the environment that will be the most productive for case-selected high investment for children.
	So he'll provide that emotionally, but can he provide that financially in a reliable way, at least for now?
	Until that question is asked, I would assume, until that question is answered, I think it's going to be, you know, sputtering along in the same way that his business is not crashing or taking off.
	Your sexual desire is neither crashing nor taking off.
	Does that make sense?
	Right.
	Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
	And, you know, it really feels like my lady parts are just locking me down and not...
	Yeah, not engaging.
	Well, they kind of are, like if you were completely turned off by this guy.
	Right, no, well, yeah.
	Like, in other words, if this guy's business completely, I'm not saying the two are the same, if his business completely failed, he'd, okay, crash it and try something new, right?
	Right.
	But this guy's business is kind of sputtering along, which means that you're...
	Sexual desire, because it's focused on the future environment for your case-selected kids, it's kind of sputtering along too, and that's really tough, which is why he needs to go and make some cheddar, right?
	He needs to go and get some reliable income for you guys.
	Right.
	And because you're in your late 20s, right, you have a challenge, right?
	Which is, do you...
	Do you continue to invest or do you not?
	And that's, I think, where you're saying there's potential, there's significant potential, but there are questions that need to be answered.
	And that's the same thing with his business.
	There's potential, there's significant potential, but there are questions that need to be answered around the stability of the income stream.
	And that's case-selected stuff, right?
	I mean, are we going to have a stable source of revenue for when the kids are young?
	Because if you don't, that is a challenge for the enjoyment of having kids, right?
	Right.
	And, you know, also, he's divorced and has kids already.
	So...
	Oh, I like this.
	I always love it when people have the pattern of like, hey, you know, there's really, really important information.
	I'm really not going to mention it until, I don't know, at least 45 minutes into the conversation.
	So you can theorize about a whole bunch of stuff while missing essential information that's really important.
	Anyway, go ahead.
	Right.
	Yeah, so he is divorced and he already has five kids.
	And so...
	I'm sorry, what now?
	Yes, he has five kids.
	Five kids?
	Yes.
	And so...
	So he's fertile.
	Yeah, so he can do it.
	But, you know, but on top of whatever we may create together, he has to also be able to support them as well.
	And he's having a hard time doing that right now.
	So it's like, okay.
	Sally, Sally, Sally, Sally, Sally!
	Oh my god.
	Would you be my girl?
	No, I'm just kidding.
	That's his song.
	Anyway, so, Sally, Sally, Sally.
	Do you really think that the challenge of you gaining resources for your children has to do with the uncertainty of his business or the fact that he basically has an entire robin's nest of squawking bird beaks that he needs to continually stuff worms into?
	Yeah, I would say all of it.
	Which do you think would be a slightly higher priority?
	His kids, for sure.
	Yeah, I would say so.
	So why didn't you tell me that at the beginning?
	I'm curious.
	Because I know he's going to be listening to this and...
	I know why.
	Why?
	But maybe you don't.
	Because that's not a solvable problem.
	Right, that's...
	Now, let me ask you something else.
	Oh, Sally, my dear.
	Now, imagine.
	Because, you know, I'm a gender equalist.
	I'm into gender equality, right?
	Gender equalist?
	No, that's not even a word.
	Okay.
	So, if you were a man and your esteemed boyfriend was a divorced single mom with five kids, what do you think I'd be saying?
	Run.
	Or just don't do it.
	If you want to have kids, you know, it would be, I assume, somewhat less complicated if you had a man around who didn't already have five children!
	Yeah.
	Does he have some level of custody?
	I hope so.
	No, so he can only see them once a month, supervised for a couple of hours.
	I'm sorry, I have to go full beluga on you.
	Okay.
	He said, putting on his crash helmet of inquiry, Sally, why can he only see his children a few hours a month in supervised visits?
	So, yeah, his family doesn't want him around because he had financial difficulties in the relationship and in the marriage, and his family is also very, very Christian, and he left the church, and his ex-wife hasn't talked to him in Over two years since she left him.
	I'm no expert, but you can't bar a father from seeing his children because he's not going to the same church.
	Right, but see, they went through court and he couldn't afford a lawyer, and so that's what the judge basically granted for him is two hours a month visitation.
	Supervised.
	And I assume he's paying some child support.
	Yes, yes, he is.
	Right.
	Right.
	How pretty is this guy?
	I'd say he's a six.
	Okay.
	What?!
	You're a nine, he's a six, with five kids, supervised visits, massive amounts of child support, and an unstable business.
	Yes.
	What?!
	Yeah, so...
	What?
	I say again!
	Okay, you know what's coming next.
	You realize you're driving men completely insane and not in a good way.
	Bye.
	Because there are guys like I say, oh, she's a nine.
	Are you smart?
	Yes, you are.
	Are you articulate?
	Yes, you are.
	Are you into self-knowledge?
	You certainly are.
	Are you interested in philosophy?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Are you not just a tiny little bit of a catch?
	Sally, just a little bit.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Hang on.
	I am attempting to zen.
	Right.
	I am working on the zen.
	It's failed.
	Forget it.
	I'm just moving past the zen.
	I'm afraid I broke the zen.
	The call is breaking me.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	So you have options in the dating world.
	You're in your 20s.
	You're highly attractive, highly intelligent, pursuit of self-knowledge, philosophy, therapy, the whole log.
	So...
	Can you not do...
	I don't want to say better.
	Maybe this guy's a great guy or whatever, but can you not do someone more in line with what you want?
	I'm sure I could.
	Um...
	This relationship is the first one where I've loved someone.
	So I have a tough time thinking about being with someone else because this is the first time I've felt connection where I've been able to just be myself and be accepted and loved for it and vice versa.
	Yeah, well, the L word is obviously a bit of a challenge, but love is like vagina, right?
	I mean, love, romantic love, is for kids, right?
	Yeah.
	And do your kids want a man who, is he about your age-ish?
	He is seven years older.
	Seven years older, okay.
	Do your future kids want a guy who's already got five kids?
	No.
	Okay.
	Do your future kids want a guy who's financially unstable and stressed a lot?
	No.
	The love is about your future kids.
	It's not about just you feeling accepted.
	I mean, I hate to put it this bluntly, but the love...
	Is what creates the nest for your future children to grow in.
	The fact that you feel accepted and loved, it's great.
	But it's your future kids, I think, who get the deciding vote in this situation.
	You know, choose your husband, choose your wife, choose the father or mother of your children like your future kids get the deciding vote.
	Because they're the ones who are going to have to live with it in an involuntary way.
	Is it going to be fun for your future kids to have five half-siblings that they really won't get a chance to get to know?
	No, that'd be terrible.
	And, you know, that's something that I need to put at the forefront of my mind that I haven't been.
	And, I mean, it is a self-centered desire to...
	Stay in this relationship.
	I hear typing.
	It's a little distracting.
	Just telling you.
	Oh, that wasn't me.
	Okay, it may be from someone else.
	I assume it wasn't you.
	I assume that I can hold your attention when your romantic life hangs in the balance.
	Okay, I just got to respond to something on Snapchat.
	Or it's like, no, no, no.
	I'm listening to you, Steph.
	I'm right now setting up a Tinder account.
	No, that's not what I'm...
	Right?
	Okay, okay.
	And listen, I hate to, you know, talk about this stuff because, you know, you love the guy.
	Maybe he's a great guy.
	Maybe you can work it out.
	I don't know.
	But I mean, just as far as perspective goes, there's a reason you didn't tell me, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	And of course, you knew at the very beginning of this that he had five kids.
	Yep.
	Five kids that he couldn't see.
	Yep.
	And I've never met them.
	No, of course you haven't.
	Yep.
	Of course you haven't.
	And you may never...
	You may never know.
	You know, to be fair, at the beginning of all of this, you weren't that interested in kids, right?
	Right.
	And yeah, when I got together with him, I wasn't.
	But man, this guy's got like a giant lead albatross of infinite heartbreak that he's got five kids he can barely see.
	Yeah.
	And that's really hard on him, too.
	I'm sorry?
	I said, that's really hard on him, too.
	To not be able to see them as much as he wants to and to be the father that he wants to be in their life and be the influence he wants to be.
	So that adds additional emotional stress.
	So you've got a great way to find another guy who's not quite as emotionally available as he could be, but at least it's not weed.
	Right.
	All right.
	So the next natural question, Sally, is who in your past taught you to manage emotional unavailability?
	Well, I would say both of my parents.
	My parents had me before they were married, and my mom felt forced.
	She tells me this.
	She felt forced...
	Into marriage to my dad because she said she was highly dysfunctional and didn't have, you know, enough money and whatnot.
	So she married him and they divorced when I was two and a half.
	And she had a marriage before that and a marriage after that.
	So she's been divorced in total of three times.
	And then my dad has been divorced twice and I am an only child.
	And what was your relationship like with your biological father after your parents divorced?
	Right.
	So...
	So it was very estranged.
	My mom...
	You don't mind if I'm totally open and honest, do you?
	I would mind if you weren't.
	So my mom...
	It was a very, very difficult court battle.
	My mom took him to court because she believed that he molested me.
	And so he...
	Saw me, you know, had visitation with me for short periods of time, and it was supervised for a while.
	And then I didn't remember any of this.
	In fact, I don't remember much of my childhood before the age of seven.
	I really don't remember much.
	So I don't remember all of this happening, but yeah.
	She told me at age 8 what had happened and I was at the time staying at his house for the weekends full time and so that was very confusing but because of that process my dad was and still is emotionally shut down so there's no warmth there's really not a lot of love or emotional connection or Empathy
	or, you know, important conversation that happens between us.
	And my relationship with my mom is I hide a lot of my sadness and I hide how I feel from her.
	You know, when I feel emotional like this, it's harder to articulate Everything.
	I remember growing up and she would tell me not to be sensitive.
	She would want me to toughen up.
	She would teach me that I can't rely on anyone but myself.
	And I didn't have a Very good perspective of men when I was, you know, dating and younger and having the casual relationships.
	I thought that all men wanted me for was for sex and that they didn't really want to get to know me, nor could they, because I wasn't, I had no clue who I was and I wasn't emotionally open and connected either, which is why I chose relationships with men who were not, who were not, um, Authentic and connected with who they are.
	So...
	Right So yeah And I also grew up I moved around a lot.
	I moved around to about 15 different houses by the time I graduated high school.
	And...
	I was very alone a lot.
	Like I said, I don't have siblings.
	I moved around from school to school a lot.
	I was bullied and picked on quite a bit.
	As time went on, I closed myself off more and more to people.
	It was to the point where in high school I wasn't connecting with kids.
	I wasn't going to parties or anything.
	I didn't really have lots of friends.
	I didn't I'd be, yeah, I was very much alone, very lonely when I was growing up.
	And so, you know, to have connection, authentic connection with someone, it's like something that I've never had and it's something that I really cherish and treasured.
	And that's, it's despite everything else that's going on in my partner's life.
	I think that it's the connection and the emotional honesty that I was, like, craving for my whole life that I wasn't able to get from parents or family.
	which I don't have family around me either, that I have in this relationship.
	and that's why I'm with this man.
	Right.
	Right.
	That may be one of the reasons why you're with him, but...
	But there's another parallel which I'm sure hasn't escaped you, right?
	Between your boyfriend and your father.
	What's that?
	Well, your father was only able to see you during supervised visits...
	And this man is only able to see his children with supervised visits, right?
	Right.
	That's not...
	Well, that is a parallel, but that's not really something that I pieced together as recreating a past pattern, but it could be.
	Do you have...
	And I'm sorry to ask, I don't have to answer anything, of course, Ali, but do you have any opinions about whether the...
	Molestation allegations are true or not.
	And I say this not because I wish to disbelieve anybody.
	It's just that in the research conversations I've had with experts with regards to divorce, sexual allegations in divorce are so common that they have their own acronym.
	Right.
	And so I'm just wondering if you had any thoughts about that.
	Right.
	I highly doubt that they're true.
	So my dad went through a lie detector test.
	At the time, and it came back false.
	And I've never, that I can recall, my dad has never, he's scared to touch me to this day.
	Like, he's scared to give me a really, he's scared to give me a deep, loving hug.
	And, you know, he's hardly touched me at all growing up.
	And, you know, like in a fatherly way.
	Yeah.
	And I did talk to him a couple of years ago about this, and he said that he didn't do it.
	And he told me about what the experience was like for him, and how hard it was on him.
	So, I don't think he did it at all.
	But that would mean that your mother, if that's true, I mean, and we don't, I mean...
	If this is your opinion, then would it not also follow that if that's true, then your mother falsely accused him?
	Yes.
	That's right.
	And what do you think of that?
	I think it's horrible.
	And I've been working on...
	I've actually, you know...
	brought it up with her and she'll either say I don't want to talk about it's in the past or you know she really stands her ground that she believed he did it and she'll say that she was just trying to protect me because she was molested when she was younger and so she wanted to do her best to keep me safe.
	I am so sorry about All this.
	I'm so sorry about all this.
	It's heartbreaking.
	And I'm sorry that you had the distance from your father, lack of physical affection with your father, which of course I can completely understand, given the allegation.
	I'm just, I'm incredibly sorry about all of this.
	And I'm certainly incredibly sorry that Your mother told you stuff when you were a child that it does not seem to me parents should be chatting about with their kids.
	Right.
	I mean, that's not the most age-appropriate things that I can think of, at least.
	And I would assume your boyfriend knows this stuff as a whole as well, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	And how's therapy going?
	Um...
	It's going well.
	I stopped doing it a couple of months ago because I'm not working right now.
	I'm currently looking for work, so when I find something again, I'm going to start up again.
	But it was very insightful into certain patterns that I had Growing up and being able to connect with my emotions again and process a lot of anger and despair, which I was stuffing down quite a bit and ignoring and hiding through serial dating and our selected behavior and drinking and partying and everything.
	To reconnect with that part of myself again and And process it and journal and work on healing that has been really integral.
	And so that's a big reason, too, why I'd like a different type of life with a family that I crave for myself in a healthy way.
	Right.
	Right.
	Do you know if your boyfriend wants to have more kids?
	He said that he would like more.
	Right.
	Yeah, like he's open to having more.
	Right.
	Yeah, I mean, that's a lot to have on your plate.
	That's a lot of history to have on your plate.
	And I hugely commend you, Sally, for focusing on the therapy and the journaling and the sort of trying to understand all of the stuff that went down.
	It's admirable that you're taking on that work, because I think that is the best way to deal with these issues.
	And so I obviously hope that you'll continue on with therapy as you get work again, that that's going to continue to be part of your process moving forward.
	Yeah, I will, Steph.
	Thank you.
	Right.
	Well...
	You know, as you know, I have a standing policy that I've only ever accepted myself, exempted myself from and once, which I don't tell people what to do because it doesn't, would be completely valueless as a whole.
	And of course, the whole point of self-knowledge is self-ownership and so on.
	But where there remains doubt after two years, and it sounds to me like you've got doubt at some different levels, right, in terms of sexual desire and other things.
	That's a challenge, right?
	Two years should be enough to know whether you want to stay together or not.
	And that is a challenge.
	If you had a job in two years, you're like, I don't know if I should stay or if I should go or if it's going to work out long run and so on.
	In a way, that's a complicated place to be and in a way it's not, if that makes any sense.
	Right.
	And...
	You know, the parallels between your boyfriend and your father are, I would imagine, more than entirely coincidental, which, you know, doesn't mean that that's necessarily the worst thing in the world.
	It's just it's important to be aware of those parallels, right?
	Yeah.
	And if he could solve his financial issues, if he could sort of get his business to sort of take off, what do you think Your thoughts and feelings would be regarding the relationship?
	I definitely would feel like I can see more of a concrete future with him.
	And I'd feel more hopeful in the relationship, more optimistic, more open to fully 100% more open to fully 100% commit myself to it.
	As it has been, it's been difficult to feel 100% committed because of that lack of instability.
	Or that lack of stability.
	Yeah, the lack of stability.
	And does he know all of this?
	Yes.
	What's going on in your heart, mind, and loins?
	Yes.
	Right.
	Right.
	And what is his solution, since you've talked about this as a big stumbling block for you, what is his solution to it?
	Um...
	Well, I mean, that he's working on it and he's working on his business and it's, you know, going to get going and up and running.
	And I mean, he doesn't have a solution when it comes to his kids and seeing them more.
	And I mean, there's so much that needs to be, so many other big problems that need to be solved before, you know, we could come together in a serious way, you know, live together.
	And commit a life to each other.
	And it's not really like a concrete step-by-step solution.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	So I'll tell you my particular approach to these kinds of complex problems.
	And I don't have any perfect solutions.
	And I'm certainly not trying to suggest you do anything in particular.
	But I'll just tell you sort of my approach.
	You are young still.
	You know, you...
	You don't have a lot of time to make a decision on this.
	It's not like you're 21, right?
	So this is probably one of the reasons why you're calling, right?
	You have a big investment in this relationship.
	Two years of a big fertility window is a big investment.
	But, you know, you can look up the fallacy of sunk costs and all of that and so on, right?
	I mean, just because you spent 20 minutes waiting for a bus doesn't mean you should spend two hours waiting for a bus.
	Maybe there's no bus running that day.
	But the longer you wait, the harder it is to leave, right?
	So, you know, to use the bus analogy, if you wait for 10 minutes for the bus and then you decide to walk, it's not there, but you go walk, right?
	If you've waited for two hours for a bus, it's really tough to walk.
	Right.
	Right, because of that investment.
	So, you know, you love the man, as you say, and yet you can't commit.
	And you have examples from your parents of marriages that didn't work out and that's all very tough.
	But for me, I sort of say to myself, I'm going to give myself X. I'm going to give myself a month or I'm going to give myself two months.
	And I've had this with things, big projects that I take on, right?
	This conversation, this show as a whole is one of them.
	I'm going to give myself six months and I'm going to give everything I've got as if it's the only six months I'm ever going to have.
	I'm going to give everything I've got for six months.
	Or three months, or a month, or whatever it is.
	Whatever your time frame is, and given that you're not 21, you know, six months might be a bit lengthy, but whatever, right?
	I'm gonna work like hell to try and solve the problems that are occurring, and I'm gonna expect my partner to do the same, and I'm gonna lay out, here are all the issues that need to be resolved for me to settle down with you.
	I'm gonna give myself X weeks, or whatever it is gonna be.
	And then you just have to have the discipline to say, if the problems are not solved, Within X amount of time frame, I have to make a decision.
	Yep.
	Because, as you know, it's easy to bump along.
	You know, there are things that are interesting every day, and then a new season of some show comes out, and then somebody is not well, and then whatever, right?
	The toilet needs to be fixed, or whatever.
	There's things that bump you along that keep your nose right down there, right?
	There's an old Phafford and the Grey Master...
	Story called The Curse of the Smalls and the Stars.
	And The Curse of the Smalls is a guy who's focused on every tiny little thing.
	And The Curse of the Stars is he's only interested in the largest, most windy abstractions, right?
	And it is easy to bump along with the day by day.
	I've done it myself and everyone has, I think, for the most part in life.
	You bump along with the day by day.
	And it is tiny time slice, tiny time slice.
	And it's sort of like, have you ever had this where you're just, you're eating a snack of something or other, and you have a bowl or whatever, right?
	You're watching something or, you know what I mean, and you look down, it's like, did I eat all that?
	The bowl is empty, and that's how life can be, right?
	You can eat these little days, you've got a bowl of years, you eat these little days, You look down and the bowl is like mostly empty.
	It's like, did I eat all those days?
	I don't even remember them.
	And that's with your eggs, right?
	Your eggs are calling me, right?
	Your eggs are crying out, right?
	Because you've got 365 times two days invested in this relationship and you haven't reached a resolution.
	And you have to set yourself, or I shouldn't say, I myself in your situation would set myself.
	I mean, you can either try something like, okay, let's take a little bit of time apart and see how we feel.
	If that's not something you feel comfortable with, then you can say, okay, I've got X number of weeks, we've got to find some way to move this stuff forward.
	We're not kids anymore, and I need to make a decision.
	And if it's not going to be you, then it's going to have to be someone else.
	And the longer you're in, the tougher, the longer it takes to get out, right?
	Because I mean, If you date someone once and then you'd never see them again, it doesn't take a lot to get over that.
	But if you're with someone for years, then it can take a while to disconnect and then you have to be emotionally available to someone else and you've got to figure out how to choose better.
	It's a big process and that may push you into your mid-30s, which is a very dicey time to start trying to have kids.
	Especially, you know, it'd be kind of nice if you raised as an only kid, didn't necessarily end up at the closing of the fertility window so that you gave birth to only one child, that would be Maybe a bit of a repetition that wouldn't be great.
	It's a possibility.
	So that kind of strictness for me is sort of what's helpful.
	And it can actually change.
	Like if you bump along, things can get pretty bad.
	But if you kind of say, okay, I've got a deadline and I'm going to work really hard to resolve these issues, like I said with the The business, your boyfriend's business.
	Go out and try and get the business, try and drum up the business, and you'll find out if it's gonna work or not.
	But this bumping along day by day is how lives fall apart, how people miss the boat, how they end up not making decisions and having their life happen to them, which no matter what happens to you, if life happens to you, rather than you making life happen, If life happens to you, I think you're forever going to be cursed with discontentedness.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I definitely get what you're saying right now.
	And it really is, you know, my future children that I need to think about.
	And, you know, as I am getting older, I'm feeling that biological clock ticking.
	Not, you know, not the urge to be pregnant, but the clock is ticking.
	And it's like I feel it more and more as time goes on, especially every year.
	I mean...
	I know that women's sexual market value decreases with age as well, and my options are less and less as I get older, and that's definitely not a place that I want to be.
	I don't want to be single and alone like my mom is right now.
	Yeah, and of course as you get older, I mean, I dated an older woman when I was younger, and the kids thing was a very pressing issue because we had to decide really fast.
	And that was too rapid, right?
	And, you know, act in haste, repent at leisure, as the old saying goes.
	And if you have to make decisions in a hurry, you're usually not the best decision.
	So you want to still give yourself some room.
	If it doesn't work out with this guy, you still need to give yourself some room for finding the...
	the right person.
	Without that being that, the gates are closing, everybody dive under, don't forget your hat.
	So yeah, that would be my approach.
	And I just, you know, I know we were sort of joking around earlier and I was sort of like, why didn't you tell me?
	But I really do feel very sympathetic to your position.
	And, you know, you're trying to have a different life than the one that was modeled, the ones that were modeled for you.
	And that is a big challenge.
	It's a big challenge and I hugely respect you for taking it on.
	Thank you, Steph.
	Thank you.
	Will you let us know how it goes?
	Sure.
	And I'm so grateful that I got to talk to you tonight.
	And I think this is the show that it should be called Everything My Parents Should Have Told Me.
	Right.
	But didn't.
	Well, I hope it helps, and I really appreciate your honesty and openness in calling in, alright?
	Alright.
	Well, thank you again.
	Alright.
	Thanks very much.
	Alright, up next is Edward.
	Edward wrote in and said, Last we spoke, I proudly took the badge of honor for speaking the truth in a time where lies and hatred is indeed profitable.
	I tried talking sense into my family and friends, but they've all rejected me with irrational ideas based purely on emotions and no facts.
	They call me a disgrace to my own race.
	My black friends reject everything I say by repeating, you're not black, you're just an Uncle Tom, and whites are only tolerating your kind for now.
	Edward is Hispanic.
	I've lost a great hope and sense of optimism in society.
	I feel we are on a path to self-destruction on a level I have not seen for a long time.
	How can I get through to them when they refuse to look at the facts?
	That's from Edward.
	Whoa, hey Edward, I'm, uh...
	I'm sorry that's been your experience.
	I really am.
	I'm not entirely shocked, trust me.
	I have the same feeling with everyone, including white people.
	How else can I get through to them when they refuse to look at facts?
	We've got a whole presentation called The Death of Reason, which is about people's blanket willingness to avoid reason and evidence, even at great cost to themselves.
	So I sympathize, and I'm sorry that that's been your experience.
	But again, it's not deeply shocking.
	I appreciate that you've given it a really strong try, and is there anything you wanted to add about that sort of experience?
	I don't know what else to add to it.
	It's like living outside of a bubble and looking in, and you see everybody just stabbing each other, trying to go for each other's throw, and you're like, wait a minute, why do I have to keep doing this?
	And it's just like, you're talking to a wall, basically.
	What does it mean when they say you're an Uncle Tom and whites are only tolerating your kind for now?
	Compared to what?
	Do they think white people are going to break people up and sell them for food or parts?
	What does that mean?
	I don't know.
	Basically, I have a variety of friends and family.
	Some range from people who are very professionally successful to people who still live in the hood and use Ebonics.
	The people who are professionals and have strong...
	Educational backgrounds, they're the ones that I have an easier time to talk to and have better conversations with.
	Even if we might not agree on everything, we usually boil down to violence is not the answer.
	But when it comes to people who are still in the hood or whatever you want to call it, they call me an Uncle Tom.
	Basically, I'm associating myself with the government or whatever they imagine because it's kind of hard to also...
	Understand whether they're against the government or with the government because they want government hate, but they also hate the police.
	So it's hard to understand what he means by an Uncle Tom.
	And what he also means by, or what they mean by they're tolerating you for now is because they're kind of seeing it as like, oh, you're Spanish, you're one shade lighter than us, so it's like you're more prone to be accepted than we are.
	Right.
	Right.
	Right, okay, okay.
	Okay.
	Right.
	And has it escalated beyond just being criticized?
	Or I mean, have you received any specifically negative attention for what you're saying?
	Yeah.
	And it's like, so at work, I like to be very like vocal and like talk to people, have conversations.
	When I first talked to you, I was really optimistic.
	I was like, ah, let's go out and change the world.
	Let's have these conversations.
	So then I started having these conversations with people at work, people at home, outside, everywhere.
	And I'm talking to some friends about what happened with the shootings, with Arlen Sterling and Fernando Castillo.
	And I'm basically talking to them.
	And one of them is black and one of them is white.
	And the white guy is like, yeah, I don't know what to say because every time I talk about it, people tell me I can't talk about it.
	He's instantly silenced.
	And then the black guy tells me, he's like, hey, yeah, when I try to calm down my brother or my cousins, they tell me I'm a disgrace to the black community.
	And then we're having this conversation about the facts and trying to figure out, okay, what's going on with the shootings.
	And...
	Right, as I'm talking about it, two of the people who are over-listening, they're like shaking their heads and like they're disgusted and it's almost like as if I'm speaking vile into their ears about let's wait for facts.
	Let's find out what happened with these guys.
	Like we only got a short clip of this guy being shot.
	What happened before this guy got shot?
	Like the one in Arlen Sterling?
	Because all you saw was him getting, was already on the ground, him getting shot and then that's about it.
	So as I'm talking to my friends about it, one of the guys comes up behind me and makes like a gesture of a handgun and puts it up behind my head and makes it like as if he's like pulling the trigger.
	And then the other guy who's shaking his head, he just like laughs at it and they walk away.
	And this is a work place environment.
	Like not even like on the streets.
	Right.
	Yeah, that's a...
	That's a little intense, right?
	A lot intense.
	What drives me crazy is that I'm trying to have open conversations, trying to have rational information, not factual, but whenever I talk like that and try to find a middle ground for everybody, it sounds more like they're treating me as I'm speaking a racist or hate speech.
	But then, literally, there's other guys who would walk around the whole place, I mean, walk around the work environment, and they say, fuck the police, whites do this, whites do that, and people cheer them.
	Like, they clap on, like, yeah, yeah, I agree with that, yeah, yeah.
	So you just walk around saying, fuck the police, but meanwhile, when I say, hey, let's wait for facts, let's shoot this guy.
	Yeah, that's, I mean, that's pretty chilling, and I'm incredibly sorry.
	That's your experience, and how are you feeling about all this stuff?
	I mean, I know you said some of it in what you said, but what else is going on for you?
	Oh, it's like, I don't know.
	I'm a person who doesn't really, like for the moment, like being raised, basically, I was just like a kind of person that was just like to myself, like to observe the world.
	And the more I've been listening to your show, the more I've been removing myself from the world and seeing it from a broader perspective.
	It's just starting to seem like I'm being...
	It's easier to be upset at people when they're not your friends and family, but it's harder when it's your friends and family who are disappointing you on this kind of level, where you're just like, is this really what people are thinking about?
	The people who I trust Who I love are the same people who are telling me that I'm a disgrace, that I have no rights speaking about this, and that basically they treat me like anybody else.
	My opinion has no value.
	And it just brings into, I don't know what to say, this tension where I can't really view them the way I used to anymore.
	Yeah, I mean, you hope that people are going to give you some credibility because they're your friends, they're your family.
	You know, even if they disagree with you, well, I respect you or care about you.
	I love you enough to listen.
	And when that doesn't happen, it's kind of chilling.
	And I don't want to sort of put words in your mouth, but my experience has been with friends and family in the past.
	When I ask them to choose between ideology and me...
	At least to entertain what it is that I'm saying, I found that in the significant majority of cases, people would just choose ideology, prejudice over me.
	And that is a hard thing to see, just how little, at least it was for me, that I mattered relative to their prejudices.
	It's like a shocking wake-up call.
	It's just like, because I know we're supposed to be all social creatures, tribal and nature and all that stuff.
	But it's kind of like I'm not part of the tribe anymore.
	I'm just not there anymore.
	So it's like I gotta either keep my mouth shut or keep talking and then eventually I'll find myself in a violent situation.
	Well, I certainly don't recommend that, right?
	As I'm sure you're aware, that is not, I think, going to be productive or helpful, right?
	Yeah, well, I mean, I'm not seeking out...
	Like, when I speak to these people, it's not like, hey, fuck you, fuck that, fuck everything you stand for.
	It's more like, hey, I got this...
	Like, I have this point of view.
	I don't think this happened the way it happened.
	Like, how about we talk about this?
	Or, hey, like, just because there's been these shootings, does that mean that that...
	Justifies 11 men being shot as well.
	And when I try to approach them with that, it's like, oh, fuck you, fuck the police, kill Whitey, all kinds of shit.
	Like, it's just like insanity.
	Like, it's just pure racism against white people.
	Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but Philando Castile, wasn't he shot by a man named, like, wasn't his last name Hung?
	Wasn't he Asian?
	No, I don't recall the name of the shooter.
	Philando Castile, if I remember rightly, was shot by a Latino?
	Yeah, exactly.
	So, before they even found that out, they were calling him a white officer who shot a black man.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	No, I get that.
	And it's just like, they instantly just revolt straight to, like, oh, white versus black.
	And it's just like, it's turning into...
	I mean, I heard the call before, and you're saying that, like, it's more between police and criminals rather than blacks and whites.
	But I think with the way the media is spinning it, it's turning it into a blacks versus white kind of situation.
	Well, they're trying to, and can you imagine if white people, if there was some Asian guy who committed a crime, and...
	They said, no, it would be reported as a black guy.
	I mean, they would go insane, right?
	Yeah.
	Like, how dare you switch the races for the sake of your own racist narrative?
	And I mean, that would just be horrible.
	Yeah, it's like, I don't know.
	I'm over here on like a business trip for work right now.
	And I'm in the IT industry.
	And I thought, okay, let me get away from all that.
	Let me just have a moment to myself and I can just really immerse myself in my career, like the IT studies.
	And even while I'm here, there's actually Black Lives Matter people protesting outside right now, outside the hotel.
	And it's like, one thing I observed is that When I see Black Lives Matter protesters, they're not people who are over 30.
	They're people who are under 25 or like early teens.
	And all these people are saying like, hey, the white man's trying to keep you down.
	The system is keeping you down.
	But I'm seeing them outside the hotel room protesting and saying this and all that stuff.
	And then I'm going into the convention hall and I see all these intellectuals.
	Everybody just having a good time talking about new technologies and everything.
	And for a moment I remove myself and I see the people who are around me in the convention hall.
	And the majority of them are white, European, far Middle East, West Asian.
	And then you'd see some Koreans and Chinese or Japanese, but there'd be a few of them.
	But predominantly it's mostly whites and a bunch of other people like that.
	And I'm sitting there and most of the people who are there are above the age of 30.
	Even they notice that the people who are there, I'm overhearing conversations, they're like, have you noticed that most of the people in this convention hall are over the age of 30?
	You don't see anybody under the age of 30 over there.
	I'm thinking in my head, like, these kids are outside protesting, like, whites are trying to keep you down, do, like, systems against you, like, there's no way to make it up because it's all racism.
	Meanwhile, like, me, who's a Hispanic, like, I didn't see any Hispanics there.
	Like, there might have been a few, but I didn't notice them out of the crowd.
	But I'm seeing all these people, like, the diversity compared to the people who are, like, sitting outside saying, like, hey, Everybody's just trying to keep you down, and I put myself in a situation.
	I'm like, okay, well look at me.
	I'm here with these people right now, and I'm trying to bring myself to a higher intellectual level and trying to enlighten myself.
	But meanwhile, they're wasting their time and their days and their years to fight for something that doesn't even exist.
	I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist, but it's not existing on the level that they believe that it does.
	Because if it was, then I want to be where I am right now.
	Right.
	Yeah, no, I get that.
	And if you can make a lot of money for your employer, they don't care if you're Barney the Dinosaur colored, right?
	I mean, if you can make a lot of money for your employer, you generally will be hired.
	Exactly.
	So it's hard to understand their situation because it's like you're trying to piece all of the things together and trying to figure out why The world is the way it is.
	And then I started thinking about...
	What's his name?
	Sorry.
	I just had his name.
	Thomas Sowell.
	Thomas Sowell.
	He had a interesting conversation and he also has some really good books where he talks about how African-Americans or Africans in Europe basically like they would at some point in time they all mingle together and then there were black children and white and white European children.
	Both went to the same school, both did everything, and both did better.
	Well, both did about average compared to the kids who are over here, like, where people are taught, like, from the moment you get out of the womb, like, you're not going to make it.
	And hip-hop culture is, like, a big thing, and it's just, like, toxic to everybody around it.
	And then you start thinking, like, okay, so...
	It's more of like a social problem.
	And then you start thinking, like, how can I possibly combat such a high, like a massive...
	Social construct that has just built itself over the years.
	And then I'm supposed to be that one guy that takes all that apart and moves people to the moment of enlightenment.
	Yeah.
	No, Edward, it is important to recognize that you're the only one who can fix it.
	It all comes down to you.
	No pressure!
	Psych!
	Look, look, I mean, I recognize that.
	And Tom Sowell, Dr.
	Tom Sowell, is a I have some disagreements, like who cares?
	Ray's a great intellectual, happens to be black, has written a lot about slavery and a lot about economics and is a great speaker and thinker.
	And he, as far as I understand it, he rejects some of the biological IQ hypothesis or the IQ disparity hypothesis.
	And he places the dysfunction, if I remember correctly, places the dysfunction in the black community on black culture.
	And I think White Liberals and Black Rednecks is the name of his book, which is well worth reading and listening, or listening to.
	And so he rejects IQ, Gap, or any biologic.
	He says it's culture.
	Culture is the issue.
	And no matter what's going on biologically, culture could be better, right?
	I mean, I think that's fairly safe to say.
	And you can't fix that.
	You can't.
	I can't.
	You know, together a whole bunch of people might be able to move the needle a little bit.
	But culture is downstream from economics, in my opinion.
	And so if the economic incentives are set up incorrectly or counter-productively, then what will happen is culture will become corrupted because the financial incentives are corrupted.
	So if you have a communist system where nobody profits from additional work, people will become, quote, lazy.
	Naturally.
	If you set up a system where women don't pay or their parents don't pay if they happen to have sex, unprotected sex, and get pregnant from the wrong guy, in other words, the welfare state steps in, then the entire culture will change.
	You know, it's not an accident to me that the welfare state preceded the rise of hip-hop culture.
	Culture is downstream from economic incentives.
	And because of that, changing culture while the economic incentives remain the same I think is not exactly totally pointless because you can help certain individuals, but you can't really make much of a dent in a culture as a whole as long as the economic incentives remain skewed.
	So you can go around lecturing people in a communist system that they ought to work harder, and maybe a few people will, but it's not going to fundamentally turn it into a capitalist system, even if we were to take out the whole problem of the price signals without a free market or whatever, the calculation problem.
	So you can go and say to people, listen, I know it's communism, but you really should work harder, you should have pride in your work, and maybe a few people will change that way, but it's not going to change anything fundamental for the society as a whole until communism collapses.
	So we don't need to fix culture.
	We can't fix culture without the economics changing, and we can't change the economics.
	We can only make arguments for more rational and moral and better economic situations, a free market, personal self-ownership, property rights, rule of law with regards to contracts and the non-aggression principle.
	We can make that case repeatedly so that When the system collapses under its own weight, better decisions can be implemented.
	Once better decisions are implemented and people are responsible for their own bad choices again, culture will change like overnight to reflect all of that.
	And so we simply put out the moral case for a better system, a just system, a fair system, a free system, a voluntary system.
	But that's not going to change anyone's mind as long as the incentives remain skewed.
	So we talk about the benefits of the free market so that when communism collapses, people at least have the option to choose the free market rather than some other totalitarian or semi-totalitarian system.
	So keep preaching the good word about ethics.
	Don't let the imperviousness of individuals to reason and evidence stop you from communicating what is important.
	Let it help you guide you.
	Let it help guide you as to who to talk about.
	These things with, right?
	Somebody is like pretending to shoot you with a gun made of their fingers.
	Yeah, I think that's not really a great situation to be conversing in.
	But you can do it online.
	You can do it if you find people in your life you can talk about with these things, then that's great.
	But you cannot change the minds of people who are unwilling to think.
	The only way their minds are going to change is if the upstream economic incentives change.
	And then they will say, they will sort of switch from people who are lazy and unmotivated because it's communism.
	Maybe they'll become entrepreneurial hustlers or at least change to some degree when the system becomes more free.
	And so right now, going around lecturing single moms, is that really going to change things?
	Well, no, because the system has been set up So that single motherhood has become a profit center rather than a loss center or a cost center.
	And you can't change that because economic incentives are what people respond to as a whole because we're biological organisms and that's what's going on with that stuff.
	So don't worry about changing people's minds and don't let the fact that people don't want to think stop you from communicating.
	Let it help stop you from communicating with people who can't think because that's not going to change them.
	It's just going to wear you out and wear you down.
	So, you know, feel free to take a break.
	Feel free to go and have fun.
	It is not your responsibility to fix the world.
	It is not my responsibility to fix the world.
	It is no individual's responsibility to fix the world.
	And other people want you to take on that responsibility so they don't have to do anything.
	I'm not going to take on the responsibility of changing the world because if I were to believe that and other people were to believe that, even if that could be conceivably true, which it's not, that lets them off the hook for changing the world.
	And I'll be damned if I'll let people off the hook for changing the world if they have any capacity and incentive and desire and willingness to do so, they damn well need to join us up here on the barricades.
	But yeah, take a break and make sure that you...
	Enjoy your life as well.
	Yesterday, I took my daughter to a theme park and thought of nothing but fun for six hours straight, and it was a wonderful, wonderful time.
	I went over to a friend's place for a swim and a chat today, and we talked of nothing but funny stories, and it was refreshing.
	You can't spend your whole life in the desert.
	You need lots of oasis breaks to replenish, to recharge.
	You know, if you...
	You don't take time to maintain the car.
	You're just going to drive it into the ground.
	So don't take on too much of a burden.
	That takes responsibility away from other people.
	Try and spend time around people who are rational when you discuss these topics.
	If you're around irrational people or hostile people or deranged people, then don't bother.
	I mean, you can't give pills to people who think they're poison.
	All that you're going to do is get into conflict and That's going to take time away from people who you might be able to give pills to who understand that they're medicine.
	So I hope that helps give you some sense of perspective.
	And I wish I could sort of fix the challenges within your family and friendships.
	But if you take a break, From the topics, you don't know necessarily what kind of possibilities might open up.
	But it is terrible to me.
	You know, you look at somebody like Alton Sterling at a rap sheet a mile long and he impregnated a 14-year-old girl when he was 20 and somehow you're the disgrace?
	Come on.
	Yeah, I agree with you 100%.
	And I think you're right that I'm letting it consume me a little bit too much.
	My girlfriend has been telling me for a while, she's like, hey, you talk politics all the time, and I'm getting tired of hearing it.
	But she's getting really good at talking it, too, because of it.
	So she's able to defend her point of views against other people because of how open I am with it with her.
	But yeah, a lot of people seem to be turned off because I'm so deep into it.
	No, and your enthusiasm at the beginning of these topics is totally understandable.
	But don't let the blindness of the world rob you of the love of your girlfriend and the respect of your girlfriend and the fun in your life.
	Virtue and knowledge and wisdom, I don't believe they're...
	Put on earth by Satan to punish us for having eyeballs.
	You know, like, I mean, you've got to measure what it is that you do and you've got to take breaks and you've got to have fun.
	The world is going to go on its way.
	And We can nudge it, and we can prepare people for the changes that are going to happen, but we have no direct control over the content of another human being's mind.
	You understand?
	You have no control over the content of another human being's mind.
	You can work to influence, you can work to say stuff, but you have no direct control.
	Where we have no direct control, we cannot take self-ownership, because that's just going to burn us out.
	That's true.
	I agree.
	And that kind of...
	My whole career and everything has led up to me trying to prepare myself for having kids.
	And just learning about all these things and seeing the world, the state of the world, I'm really scared for not just my future, but the future of my children that aren't even born yet.
	And I'm scared, like, oh, okay, will I be able to afford a house in the next five years?
	Will I be able to...
	Make sure that they don't get beaten up in school because of some BS that just came up.
	I'm seeing it's just pointing towards more and more violence.
	I'm trying to avoid that, but I guess that's the reason why I keep trying to get myself so involved and taking all that burden is because I'm trying to make a better world for myself and my children.
	Yeah, but you know you can't, right?
	You can't go and fix the world so you can have kids.
	That's just a great way to never have kids.
	No, seriously.
	I mean, you can't wave a magic wand.
	I mean, it'd be nice if you could, but you can't wave a magic wand and make the world a better place.
	And this is why social instability is so dysgenic.
	Dysgenic means things get worse genetically because when there's social chaos, our selected people have lots of kids and smarter K-selected people worry and don't.
	And this is why our selection loves promoting social instability and the potential for conflict and war and violence and all of that because, yeah, I mean...
	When rabbits are threatened, they have kids.
	When wolves are threatened, they stop having kids, right?
	I mean, so knowing that and knowing that this is still a fantastic time to be alive in the world, like you understand that, right?
	Do you want to be alive 300 years ago when you would not have made it much past 25 because you get a toothache and you die?
	Yeah.
	You know, I mean, the number of poor people in the world is the fewest it's ever been.
	Yeah.
	The fewest it's ever been.
	Poverty has gone down enormously just over the last few decades.
	Amazingly, we have this conversation.
	With this conversation, it's fantastic.
	People are going to benefit from this for the next 10,000 years, this very conversation.
	There is a lot going down in the world, but we have never had better tools and a better capacity to help the world make better decisions.
	I mean, would you have liked to have been in France or Germany or England in 1914 when the storm clouds of war were gathering to the November outbreak of incredibly destructive and violent hostilities on the Western Front in the First World War?
	No!
	Want to be in Stalingrad during the Second World War?
	There's so much that is positive in what we're able to do.
	We've never had so many opportunities to help the world make better decisions than we have right now.
	Yes, the world is in a difficult and dangerous place, but it ain't a world war, and it ain't a plague, and it ain't starvation.
	And we should be at least somewhat happy for that.
	You know, you have choices.
	You can stare at the dark, you can stare at the light.
	And of course we need to navigate with both.
	But if you just stare at the black...
	You know, be careful that you do not, as Nietzsche said, be careful you do not hunt monsters so long and so deep that you become a monster.
	And there is so much that is beautiful and wonderful and great in this world, in this life, at this time.
	That we need to celebrate and enjoy and embrace and love that.
	You'd be bored without combat.
	Maybe I would be too.
	But we have a combat here that is not mustard gas and shrapnel or being dragged off to the gulag like Solzhenitsyn.
	We have an amazing capacity to make the world better, to help the world make better decisions.
	And it is a finger bullet pointed at you, not a real gun.
	And let us celebrate that this battle, for the first time in human history, there is a battle between two great visions, individualism and collectivism, that is going to be decided by tweets and Facebook posts and podcasts and videos and conversations.
	Do you know what an incredible advance that is?
	When collectivism and individualism faced off across the world after the Second World War, it was with the threat of thermonuclear destruction of the entire planet.
	It was going to be decided by the number of people who weren't nuclear shadows left standing in an irradiated nuclear winter world.
	That's how the last giant conflict was going to be decided.
	The one before that, between National Socialism And the remnants of the free market, that one was decided by a war that killed 40 million people.
	This war, this conflict, is the first time that the pen may be mightier than the sword.
	The first time in human history where things, a great ideological conflict, Collectivism and individualism.
	Reason, superstition.
	Facts, bigotry.
	These two worldviews are crashing and colliding, and it may well be that it is decided on the field of verbal dexterity rather than mortars and poisons.
	Yay, us!
	That's progress.
	Definitely true to that.
	It's...
	I visited the Mutter Museum in Pennsylvania and seen a bunch of cadavers and all kinds of collections of history of different medical situations and how they used to deal with it.
	And one section of it was devoted to the Civil War.
	And you could see young men would have their arms chopped off and thrown in a pile of limbs.
	And The fact that we don't have to go back to that, or at least not yet, is making me really optimistic.
	But I'm starting to...
	Yeah, listen, you may be scorned, but you're not being drafted.
	Yeah.
	That is such staggering progress that it's easy to forget how unusual this time is.
	There are great and terrible conflicts occurring in the world.
	That for the most part in the West, at least for now, are not being decided by force of arms.
	I speak with a diversity of people.
	I have Muslim friends and a Muslim friend from Morocco, he told me about the tragedies that are going on over there and basically they confirm everything that we've all been not hearing from the media with all this violence, the sexual assaults and all those things.
	He tells me, yeah, all of them are true.
	But he's just worried that his people will be stigmatized because of the way people are talking right now.
	And the fact that I can have a conversation with him openly like that, it just makes me happy that I'm not ready to have a sword fight with each other or muskets or something like that.
	We're more like this conversation with words.
	Pistols at dawn, right?
	Yeah, and look, if you look at the diversity of the conversations we've had even in this show tonight, what an incredible gift technology and willpower and honesty and openness has provided to us to have these conversations and to the world as a whole.
	And the healing power that these kinds of open and honest conversations about race and about gender and about children and about conflict...
	We're actually able to have these conversations and help the world to understand that these conversations are possible.
	People will listen to the conversations you and I are having and that the other callers and I had tonight.
	They're going to listen to these conversations and they say, damn it, if these people can do it, maybe I can too.
	It's not just that they'll listen and get...
	An understanding of the openness and honesty that's possible, but it opens up for them the possibility that they can have those conversations as well.
	And you know how the world works?
	When we have conflicts, we either have conversations or we have conflicts, real conflicts.
	And we have a chance to engage the entire planet in a worldwide conversation, which is the only alternative to armed conflict that I can imagine or believe in.
	What an incredible opportunity that is.
	So let us also be grateful for the limited and still peaceful scope of the conversation for the most part.
	And I definitely have to like bow down my head to you because you're a great part of this.
	This is like the last caller said.
	She said that the show should be called more like what your parents should have taught you kind of thing.
	Where it's like you have the whole world and you were raised but you never taught how to deal with the world.
	For example, with my Muslim friend, I'm a big Trump supporter.
	He's not against Trump but he's not also with him.
	And I was able to have a conversation based off the things that I hear on your show.
	Not necessarily the things that I just hear, but the way the conversations are had.
	The way where we aren't assuming the worst of each other before the conversation even begins, where we're just, hey, let's find a mutual ground and let's try to figure out how we can benefit each other.
	And he was telling me, hey, a lot of the problems we're having over there, they're because of U.S. intervention, because the U.S. has been involved in so much of it.
	And that's why he was really upset with Trump and all those things, because he kind of sees the same thing.
	But then I had a conversation, in the same conversation, I was telling him, it's more like the opposite, and you're kind of like, Hillary wants more of that that's continuing going on.
	And he basically told me, well, if that's how you view it, And, and, and, because I told him, I was like, hey, I know that overseas, there's, like, from your home country, there's a lot of bad things.
	You told me, like, there's a lot of bad things.
	And you came to America because you wanted a better opportunity for your kids and your wife, because he has a family.
	And, um...
	He agreed with me, like, yeah, there's a lot of bad things over there.
	And I'm saying, yeah, like, he told me, like, when he comes to Morocco to visit, like, literally tears, just like, he says, well, he says literally tears drop down on his cheeks when he sees the state the place is in, and that people would get attacked in the middle of the street, and those same people is what he's trying to stay away from.
	And so that's what I had to explain to him, like, yeah, that's what we're trying to prevent.
	We're trying to prevent those kind of people, not...
	Civil and people like you, but people who are trying to do harm from taking advantage of the system that's being put in place right now with all this open borders for refugees and Latinos or whoever is trying to take advantage of it.
	Just trying to find a way that we can all just stop the violence.
	Just stop and take a moment to breathe and just Just, like, collect, like, recollect.
	Because he thinks that, oh, just because we're going to close the borders or whatever you want to believe that happened like that, this is going to cause more war.
	But I'm telling him, no, we're trying to distance ourselves so we can have a moment that we can just, I guess, look at each other and see, like, hey, this is not working out.
	And as I'm talking to him...
	Well, and then, sorry, just to mention, too, but you could ask your...
	A Muslim friend, exactly how many Muslims have died as the result of Donald Trump's foreign policy decisions?
	Yeah, exactly.
	And that's the answer to that would be zero.
	And then you might want to compare what happened to Muslim countries as the result of Hillary Clinton's foreign policy decisions and then see who could be considered more destructive to Muslim lives, whether it's Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton or even Barack Obama.
	And I think if you look at the pile of bodies that could be reasonably attributed to people's use of misuse of state power, well, Donald Trump doesn't even show up on that map, right?
	Exactly.
	Towards the end of the conversation, he was like, well, I hope you're right about Trump, that this is exactly what we're...
	I mean, that he would follow through with it.
	And I told him, well, I can't be for sure.
	Like, I can't predict the future.
	But, I mean, I'm going to price my bet on the best candidate.
	So, like, hopefully he does do what he's going to do.
	But the whole thing about the conversation basically ended with him being anti-Trump.
	To being more open to Trump and being more open to his sensitivity about what Trump is for.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, I think Trump...
	Once a non-interventionist foreign policy, to some degree ISIS accepted, which we can talk about another time.
	But the complaints that, not just Muslims, but the complaints that, and complaints is not even as strong enough.
	Though the horror, which I've talked about before, of American foreign policy and its incredibly destructive effects on entire regions and religions and cultures and countries.
	Anybody who is interested in pulling the troops back Must at least be of interest to people who are horrified at American foreign policy.
	So that's something to mention.
	So, Edward, a great conversation.
	We've had a close to four-hour show, so I'm going to close it down for the night.
	Thank you so much for calling in.
	I really appreciate your honesty.
	Thank you for taking on this burden, but do not let it roll over you.
	Have a happy and productive life.
	You know, put things in where you can, but don't put yourself at risk.
	That is not how we're going to make the world better.
	You don't want to be out there doing good things in the world, making good Doing good things in the world look like some god-awful punishment that only masochists would want.
	It's not the way to spread the message, but I really, really appreciate your sensitivity and your courage and your intelligence and sophistication you bring to bear on these issues.
	Thank you so much for what you're doing.
	Thank you so much, everyone, for listening to this, what I consider to be the greatest show in the history of the world.
	And you can help support us for what we do.
	We need your support.
	Freedomainradio.com slash donate.
	You can follow me on Twitter at Stefan Molyneux.
	You can, of course, use FDRURL.com slash Amazon, our affiliate link, FDRPodcast.com to listen and share.
	Thank you, everyone, so much for listening, for watching, for supporting, for helping us change the world.
	Have a great night.

▲