March 30, 2015 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
03:00:37
2940 The Estrogen Decoder Ring - Call In Show - March 28th, 2015
Do you think the rejection of altruism by Ayn Rand’s objectivist ethics is oppressive given the scientific research showing altruistic behavior in many primates? I recently came out of a six month relationship and have a very hard time trusting women due to my past experiences - how do I know if certain warning signs are legitimate or if I’m simply being insecure? Includes: finger biting bonobos, how welfare destroys any sense of community, government as a replacement for love which wasn’t earned, craziness as sexual lubricant, the gloryhole of superstition, relationship warning signs, dodging bullets and a conversation everyone in the dating pool needs to hear.
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It really is, I think, basic selfishness, but nonetheless.
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Philip.
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Mike, who is on first.
Alright, well up first today is Edward.
And Edward wrote in, and his two questions.
His first is, do you think Ayn Rand's rejection of altruism can no longer form part of objectivist ethics, given psychological research showing altruism is innate in primates?
Is not such rejection oppressive?
Aha.
Fine, right?
Altruism.
Never was perhaps an unwise phrase used by a philosopher.
So, I don't think so, because as far as, and I'm certainly no expert in the primate studies, but reciprocal altruism, you know, I scratch your back, you scratch my back.
And I know it's more sophisticated than that, but that's the kind of stuff you're talking about in the animal studies, right?
Yes.
I'm basically trying to grasp the full intricacies of altruism related to objectivism because it is the big sticking point for a lot of people.
Absolutely.
And most people, of course, view altruism as niceness.
Yes.
And selfishness was the sort of Randian position.
However, I don't think that...
The sort of common vernacular approach to objectivism is correct according to objectivism itself.
And the language is tricky.
I've always tried not to introduce new words, to redefine new words, or to take opposite meanings.
And of course, you know, people say to me all the time, well, don't say anarchism, because people have...
It's like, okay, but let's say I invent Stephanism.
And then people say, after they listen to it for a while, well...
How's that different from anarchism?
It's like, it's not, but it's rebranded.
Then there's just this, you know, might as well just be up front with it.
I do think that it was a mistake to attempt to redefine commonly accepted words.
Now, I don't know the degree to which, when she was working on her philosophy in the sort of 30s, 40s, and 50s, the degree to which altruism was...
Accept it as a term that means niceness and kindness and helping others and so on.
But certainly, you know, she was pretty provocative, you know, the virtue of selfishness, you know, the good of evil, you know, kind of stuff like that.
So when people said, well, why would you call it the virtue of selfishness?
And she said, basically, for the same reason that you're upset that I did so.
And I think that's a...
I think it was a mistake.
I don't think you get too far in trying to redefine language.
But as far as altruism goes, altruism is not, you know, we live in an, sorry, altruism is not, in the objectivist definition, altruism is not, we live in an Amish village, you help me fence in my pig pen and I will help you repair a wall.
It's not, altruism is not You know, your neighbors, your friends with your neighbors, and they watch your kids and you watch their kids.
Or they pick up your mail when you're away.
Or whatever it is, right?
That's not altruism.
And that's all stuff which is fairly common throughout the animal kingdom.
And it is quite common, of course, among primates that they will help each other out.
Nobody particularly wants to pick bugs off each other's back, but if everyone does it, Everyone's happier.
But that's not what Ayn Rand is referring to when she's referring to altruism.
And again, you want to go to the source, but I'll give you my understanding of it.
So here's a question for you.
Carry on.
So let's say there's a young man who really wants to become a concert pianist.
But his grandfather, who never paid any attention to him when he was growing up, as a kid, right?
This young man.
We call him Bob, right?
And his grandfather was mean and cantankerous and negative and was an alcoholic and beat his father and beat his wife and spent time in jail and was just a sour, mean old man.
Guy.
That would show up in some gothic American play.
Just a mean old crusty negative guy.
And so this young man who really wants to become a concert pianist has been studying piano since he was six and is very eager and fresh-faced and excited to go off and become a concert pianist.
But one day his father sits him down, you know, the day before he's going to go off to Juilliard or wherever he's going to study piano, his father sits him down and says, Well, you know, I'm sorry, but you can't go.
Because your grandfather needs help on his farm.
You know, he needs pigs tackled, cows milked.
He needs the back 40 hoed, whatever that is.
And, you know, he needs fences repaired.
He needs all this kind of stuff.
So I'm afraid you're going to have to Give up your dreams of becoming a concert pianist so that you can go muck about in pig swill on your grandfather's farm.
What would you think of that request or demand or advice?
Well, Ayn Rand specifically said that you only really help other people for their virtues.
So if the grandfather has no virtues, then you're not obligated to assist him.
Because if you help the virtuous, then you are helping yourself because everybody benefits, including yourself, from a society where the virtuous flourish.
So you help the virtuous, you do not help the unvirtuous.
Well, no, I think that's not a complete statement.
So help the virtuous, sure, but does that mean, let's say that you...
So we would assume, I think, sorry, just before we move on to that, we would assume that for the young man to say, well, family is everything, and he is your father, and so I am going to give up my dreams of becoming a concert pianist and go help granddad on his farm, I think we'd all kind of feel this, like a loss.
Like a, oh...
I would.
I remember seeing a film many years ago called Five Easy Pieces with Jack Nicholson about a brilliant guy who works on oil rigs.
And it's just this kind of just this tragedy.
Now he's not bullied or forced or guilted into any of this stuff.
But there was a film with Gwyneth Paltrow and oh gosh what's his name?
Gwyneth Paltrow and Mr.
Fava Beans, Anthony Hopkins.
And she gives up her dreams of becoming a mathematician to take care of her father and all this kind of stuff.
Now, but the father, I think she loves the father, so I think it's a little bit more different.
But the idea that we would give up on something that we really want, that's great for us, that's our life's work and our life fulfillment, in order to engage in Near permanent servitude to people who are horrible.
That is the kind of altruism that Ayn Rand is railing against.
So altruism in the objectivist definition is the sacrifice of a higher value to a lower value or a non-value.
Or, to put it another way, to go even stronger, a negative value.
So it's sort of like, it's the argument, okay, so I have two brothers, let's say, and both of them have kidney disease, and one of them is a moral hero who's courageous and wise and changing the world for the better, and the other is a sort of vile, drunken pedophile.
So according to the altruism that Ayn Rand is fighting against, I should give my Kidney to the drunken vile pedophile because he's the drunken vile pedophile.
And so I should sacrifice not only my kidney but my heroic wise noble brother for the sake of my ugly leprous soul scabrous brother precisely because he's unworthy.
So we should give the most to those who are the least worthy and that's the altruism that Ayn Rand was railing against.
And this may sound like, well, it's kind of like a straw man, like whoever really thinks of altruism in those terms, but in ways which we can discuss perhaps a little later, it's really a common perspective in society that we should take and punish those who make better decisions in order to reward and subsidize those who make terrible decisions.
I mean, this is the whole welfare state.
Which is different from charity.
If you were to equate this into the animal kingdom, you'd have to find some tribe of bonobos or something where if you pick the nits of some male bonobo fur and then that male bonobo turns around and bites your finger off,
then More bonobos should want to pick the nits or the fleas off the back of the finger-biting bonobo.
Because he's a finger-biting bonobo, therefore we should give him the greatest consideration.
And I don't think you'd ever find that in the animal kingdom.
It's virtuous reciprocity or win-win trade that is characterized by altruism, as it's called, among primates.
And, of course, Ayn Rand would have no problem with that whatsoever.
Because I was thinking of it more in terms of society and government.
So what you do is you define it as the problem is altruism can be hijacked by governments and societies to demand other people sacrifice too much or in an unjust cause.
Whereas personal altruism should be defined as a good thing.
Personal voluntary altruism.
But when it's expected of us from society and government, then that's a problem.
In other words, what we need to do is we need to...
Promote to the idea to the general public that altruism isn't an absolute good.
It's not an unquestioning good because it can be hijacked and misused.
But you're saying, well, something is good if done voluntarily and bad if done through the government, but what is the it?
So what is your definition, or what is the definition of altruism that you're working with?
Well, for example, in the primate studies that I referred to in the question, they found that a monkey will deprive themselves of a portion of their food in order to feed another monkey that they can see in another cage.
That isn't getting any food.
So they'll press a button so that both sides...
So in other words, certain primates will self-sacrifice in order to help someone else for no other reason than empathy.
Well, hang on.
How do we know?
How do we know it's for no other reason than empathy?
Well, because there's no other...
They're not related to them.
They don't necessarily know them.
The only input that they're getting that could promote that behavior is the sight of the other monkey not being fed.
Oh, absolutely.
For sure.
For sure, but there could be six million reasons why the monkey is feeding the other monkey other than empathy.
Which is not to say that no empathy is involved.
But for instance, if the other monkey dies, that would be pretty terrifying.
So let's say you and I are in cages, you know, we're in some North Korean prison camp and you and I are in cages next to each other and we talk every night.
Now, let's say I'm not empathetic, then I would still have a very strong incentive to give you some of my food, right?
Because I enjoy, at least, it's pleasurable for me to have someone to talk to, right?
Your company's preferable to solitude.
Yeah, because, you know, if I'm alone, you know, we're a social species, right?
So keeping another...
Like, DNAed entity alive is positive for us.
You know, cats maybe wouldn't do that.
Dogs probably would, right?
So tribal animals probably would because that's sort of how we're programmed.
It's that sort of reciprocal benefit.
The other thing too is that I'd want to keep you alive on the off chance that it doubles my chances of escape, right?
Yes.
Because if you escape and we're friends, you'll help me escape.
And if I escape and we're friends...
I'll help you escape.
That's sort of number two.
Number three is that if we end up attacking, even from within our cages, you'll help me.
You know, even if it's just throwing rocks through the bars or something, right?
So we are together, united.
We have a strength that we don't have.
A solo.
And so, I mean, again, these are just off the top of my head.
You could probably sit down and come up with a bunch more.
But there could be very strong, positive, significant reasons.
And you say, well, they're not related, but of course they are, because they're both monkeys.
Species have a my-species preference, in general, because the DNA is the DNA, right?
And the DNA attempts to replicate and keep alive and sustain and nurture and grow that which is the closest It has power over.
I just meant that they didn't have a bonding through being raised together.
No, no, but the DNA is the DNA, right?
And so, if I had a child in the cage with me, it would be very unlikely that I or anyone else would feed you at the expense of my child, right?
Because the child is closer in DNA to me.
But if it's you and me and nobody else around, then you're the closest in genetics to me, right?
But that's local altruism.
So you could define it as there's natural altruism where we make decisions based on people around us.
And then there's a sort of artificial false altruism where the government comes, takes your money, then gives it to someone in the other end of the country.
And that would be considered… No, no, but hang on, hang on.
We're still back to definitions, right?
Yes, yes.
Well, I'm trying to sort of divide… So what is it that you are… What is your definition of altruism?
Well it would be sacrificing or giving up something with no thought of any return.
At least not in any financial sense for example or in terms of time dedicated.
So do you mean causeless action?
In other words there's no positive benefit to the person at all but they do it anyway?
Yes.
I think that's confusing, because then why would they do it?
Well, because there'd be some sort of, either they get some positive buzz out of it, the thought that they're doing good.
Okay, but then we have a reward, right?
Yes, but it's not a reward in the straightforward resources sense.
It's a psychological reward for labor, time, resources.
Everybody knows we get a positive buzz out of charity, but you don't get that with government redistribution because it's involuntary, because you're helping people that you don't know.
So the idea is altruism should remain localized, and that way it's more natural, it's more spontaneous, and it's based on your own personal taste, judgment, and voluntary activity.
But the moment you make it centralized, governmental, bureaucratic, I think that's where she was really appalled at, because of her experiences in Russia.
That's her idea of altruism.
Well, yeah, I mean, certainly, yeah, the Russian argument, and I've got to hold three...
Three-part series at the moment on Ayn Rand, which you can find at freedomainradio.com slash videos or YouTube slash freedomainradio.
A three-part series on Ayn Rand for sure.
But here's the problem, right?
And the problem with using the same word for voluntary and coercive is it leads to these kinds of confusions.
Like if I said, well, lovemaking is great if it's voluntary, right?
But it's problematic when it's forced.
What would you say?
Well, I'd say it's not lovemaking in the second case.
Right.
It's rape, right?
Yes.
Or sexual assault or something like that, right?
Yes.
And so if we use the same word, because you're saying, well, altruism is fine in a local context, but if altruism is practiced by governments, then it's a problem, right?
Yes.
But you're using the same word for something that is voluntary, right?
And something that is enforced.
And that's like saying charity is fine if it's voluntary.
But if someone sticks a knife...
In your ribs and takes your wallet, that kind of charity is a problem.
You'd say, well, the problem is you're using the same word for something that's voluntary and something that's coercive.
Well, the whole point is that you're trying to promote and explain objectivism so that what you would do is you would make it clear, you would define it straight away in bullet points during a lecture.
There's two kinds of altruism.
There is voluntary altruism and there's involuntary, and it's the involuntary that we're against.
I think that that would sell better, thinking from a marketing point of view.
You're trying to explain to people, we're not against all forms of altruism.
We're against involuntary, we're against governmental, we're against state or society based.
It has to be voluntary and it has to be based on your own personal judgment because otherwise you might end up with a government you don't approve of taking more money than you're prepared to ordinarily give to give to people for causes that you don't necessarily agree with.
I think that would sell.
Well, but I would argue that the moment the government gets involved Any issue of altruism is completely out of the window.
I mean, do we really believe that people in the government run the welfare state and collect their taxes and run up debts because of an unselfish devotion to strangers?
No, they want a dependency class.
No, they do it to buy votes, right?
I mean, that's why people offer these programs and that's why people say, ah, we're not going to cut...
But there's a well-known principle in all democratic systems.
I don't know what the name of the principle is, but it's very easy and very brief to describe.
And the principle is this.
Everybody loves government cuts in the abstract.
However, the moment you try to cut anything specific, it's like sticking your dick in a hornet's nest with said penis covered in honey, right? - Yes. - I mean, so in the abstract, oh yeah, let's cut government Government's way too big.
Well, how about this program?
Ooh.
Right?
I mean, it's a huge problem.
Well, that's why you have to approach it philosophically.
You have to convince the public on the grassroots to embrace a philosophy where they have a stronger moral and intellectual justification for taking government out of the equation.
Well, I don't particularly agree with that.
I don't think that the change is going to come out of rational convincing.
The studies seem very clear that if you bring, most people, if you bring data counter to their prejudices, they do not change those prejudices.
It, in fact, reinforces.
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
I mean, epistemologically, yes, I've seen the studies.
I mean, are you aware of Peter Boghossian's work on epistemology?
Yes.
Yes, I mean, fantastic stuff.
So, yes, I mean, that's true.
But that's why I'm not talking about giving people facts.
I'm talking about promoting philosophy.
Because people want to be seen as good, and they want to be seen as good in front of other people.
So you just promote it as a moral philosophy.
You don't say, these are the facts.
Because the moment people see facts and statistics regarding government expenditures and earmarks, their eyes glaze over.
I mean, most of us wouldn't pay attention, even if we wanted to embrace the truth.
But if you approach it from a completely different point of view, if you approach it from a moral perspective, from a philosophical perspective, that might stand a chance of getting to a larger number of people.
Yeah, the movie Schindler's List didn't just have the list, right?
It's a bunch of names, right?
I mean, it had people, it had humanity, it had pathos, it had even the people visiting the grave later.
Yeah, of course, you absolutely have to humanize these things.
But I guess, so just to return to your original issue, I don't know about the degree to which altruism is really even, like the critique of altruism, it's like the critique of Kantian ethics.
It's almost like a personal grudge than it is something which moves philosophy forward.
I mean, I don't know the degree to which a critique of altruism has really helped make mainstream principles of objectivism.
Because I think what happens is people hear, aha!
You know, Ayn Rand hated niceness.
You know, I mean, whatever.
Because she was using...
The issue is not altruism.
The issue is the use of force.
And there is no altruism, even in the sort of being nice to people, there's no altruism in government programs.
Government programs are a massive grab for political power.
I mean, governments...
are fundamentally based upon the hysterical desire to avoid the consequences of immorality or laziness or inattention or distraction.
Governments are massive social engineering projects all designed to reverse the inevitable physics of personal laziness or immorality.
Well, I disagree with that, but we can discuss that another time.
Because if you're loved and you run into hard times, people will step up and take care of you.
And I give myself as an example.
I mean, you know, I needed healthcare dollars and people covered them because they appreciate what I'm doing.
You don't need the welfare state if you're loved.
And so the welfare state is, I want to be a jerk, but I want the government to treat me as if I'm lovable.
They define it as rights.
It's so funny because we had this thing where it used to be almost impossible to get a divorce.
In Canada until the 60s, took an act of parliament to get a divorce.
And now you can get a divorce just because you raise one eyebrow three times or something like that, right?
The Spock force or something.
And so when you ban divorces...
Basically, husbands and wives were saying, I want to be a jerk and not suffer the consequences of being divorced.
And governments are just all about, I want the effects of virtue without actually having to be virtuous.
So I want people to pay my healthcare bills, but I don't want to lift a finger to help my neighbors.
I don't want to get involved in my community.
I don't want to add any good to the world.
But if I get sick...
I want the government to treat me as if I was somebody that people loved and wished to keep on this planet.
It's the same thing with the single mom phenomenon.
You know, I don't want to choose the right man.
I don't want to deal with my past.
I don't want to become a better person.
God, no, that's a lot of work.
And, you know, it takes money away from the Christmas patterns I want to paint on my fake nails.
So I don't want to choose the right guy.
I don't want to suppress my temper and learn to be a better person and keep a good man around.
I don't want to choose a boring, stable provider.
I want an exciting alpha male who's going to, you know, pump and dump and leave me in the gutter as he goes off to his next conquest.
So I don't want to be a good woman.
I don't want to choose a good man.
I don't want to be a good wife.
But then I want people to pay my bills immediately.
The way a husband would if I were a good wife.
Right?
So it's all about I don't want to be a good teacher.
I don't want to be a good teacher who children wake up in the morning eager to get into the class and learn cool new stuff.
I don't want to be a good teacher.
I want the government to force the children to be in my class as if I were.
I don't want to be a good teacher.
I don't want to have to go through the hassle of actually engaging the children, learning what they like, figuring out how to get them interested in challenging topics.
I don't want to be a good, right?
And, you know, I don't want to be nice to my kids, right?
This is the fun, but why are people so hysterical about Social Security?
Why are people so hysterical about government pensions?
Well, I don't want to really be good to my kids.
You know, I want to travel a lot, be away from my kids a lot.
I want to dump them in daycares, I want to leave them to be raised by the cold eye of Mordor known as televisions and tablets and computers and phones.
I don't want to really be engaged and involved with my kids.
I don't want to make any sacrifices for my kids.
And so I want people to give me money when I'm old the way my kids would if I had been a really great parent.
So I don't really want to be a great parent, but I want to be secure in my old age, just as if I had been a good parent, but the government's going to have to do it because my kids probably won't.
Well, I don't think they see it that way.
I think the problem is we're dealing with the expansion of the definition of rights.
So instead of rights being inalienable and universal fundamentals, people have a right to a home, they have a right to food, they have a right to education up to the PhD level or whatever.
No, no, but what I'm saying is that you get that.
You don't even have to have it as a right.
You get that if people love you.
Yes.
But the rights thing is used to sell the idea that people are entitled from the government for these things because they're that essential.
They transcend Anything earned?
No, no, no.
But you're still not hearing what I'm saying.
They are essential.
Absolutely.
But are they rights?
Absolutely.
I mean, if I didn't get the money to cover the medical procedures I had to flee socialized medicine to get in the U.S., I'd be dead.
They are absolutely essential.
But are they rights, though?
No, no.
But the question is, why do people even imagine that they have a right to these things?
Because if they were virtuous, they wouldn't even think Of rights.
They'd have them anyway.
Right?
We only want...
We only claim that we have a right to something we're not getting.
Right?
So, I mean, there are people who...
People who, let's just say, very involved in their churches.
And they really care.
And they, you know, bake cookies for the kids.
And they set up play dates.
And they really help out their neighbors.
And, you know, men or women, it doesn't really matter.
Now, if these people get sick, of course everyone's gonna.
You know, they've been...
Picking lights off everyone's back, metaphorically speaking, for years or decades.
And then when they, like, people would just bend over backwards to help them, right?
Yes.
I mean, you're looking at it from point of view.
And so they don't sit there and say, yeah, they don't sit there and say, well, do I have a right to health care?
Because they know if and when they get sick, the doctor will probably operate on them for free because the doctor is part of the church.
And this person has been such a positive community member in the church.
People will break them food.
They'll come over.
They'll bring them.
Right?
I mean, they'll bring them food, they'll, you know, they'll repair their house, they'll pay their bills if necessary, they just chip in because that person is loved.
And so, when people, when someone comes up and says, well, you have a right to healthcare, well, the only reason that anybody would even listen to that is because, and be interested in that, is because they're not loved.
I mean, if you have a big circle of friends, you have a big circle of people you're helping, you have a big circle of people who you've taken care of and provided to, if you've picked a lot of nits off monkeys' backs, then when you get something on your back, they're all going to help you.
So there's this great temptation that people have, and they get resentful because they see other people who, quote, have a right to these things which they've earned through their Generosity.
They've created obligation on the part of others through their own generosity.
And other people haven't.
Other people have lived alone.
And never really contributed anything to anyone.
And spent all their money on themselves.
And just yell at the kids to get off their lawn.
And if a ball lands in their yard, they grab it and don't give it back.
And just nobody likes them.
They're just the boo-raddly, mean old creepy person down the road.
And if that person gets sick, people are like, well...
A, karma.
B, I don't know.
I guess we'll knock and see how they're doing, but, you know, not that.
So they become an object lesson then for the rest of society.
Well, of course, yeah.
I mean, and this is what happens.
I mean, our desire to avoid negative consequences...
Which you can only get through government.
It distorts and violates the fundamental contracts in society.
I just did a podcast.
I'll just touch on this briefly.
I just did a podcast on this where people say, well, I got sick but I didn't buy health insurance.
Well, you're in trouble then.
Now, if you're loved and you get sick, then you have the insurance called loved.
But you've got to give something to get something.
Now, maybe you're poor, but you really help other people out.
In which case, you've got the security of other people.
And instead of working to make money to buy health insurance, you've spent less time working, right?
The average poor household in America has two adults in it that work less than 15 hours a week.
They've got time to help other people in this world.
They've got time to go and help other people in this world.
So maybe you say, well, I don't want to get a lot of money.
I don't want to have a lot of money.
But what I do want is I want to, instead of investing in my career to make money so I can buy insurance, I want to take my life and invest it in those around me, helping them, making their lives better, and then I have the insurance of people around me who love me.
Which is...
Arguably much better insurance, right?
And yeah, people could move away, but so what?
Your insurance company might go broke, right?
There's always risks in everything.
I think there's less risk in a way in investing love, care, positivity, concern, wisdom, and help into your community than there is buying an insurance policy.
But a lot of people don't want to get off their fucking asses and help other people in this world.
And they also don't want to buy insurance.
Now where are those people going to run?
Nobody cares about them and they don't have insurance.
Government.
The government will replace the love I never generated and replace the financial responsibility I never exercised.
Well then the argument for that is don't make commodities rights.
Because then you're not making other people forced to help other people through medical care or whatever.
But the problem I see is, what if you help people within your local community, but everyone around you is dirt poor, and then you get cancer, and it'll cost $80,000 for treatment?
And there's no way you could possibly get that from a whip around, passing the collection of plates around to anybody in your neighborhood that you've ever known or helped.
Okay, so let's see this argument.
So you need $80,000.
Okay.
So let's say you've helped 100 people, right?
Yes.
So how much does they need to come up with?
$800?
Well, basically, you would need quite a lot.
Don't give me numbers.
I'm not good for numbers.
But let's just say that the maximum anybody could contribute, because they're all dirt poor, is like $200.
Fantastic.
Then you're set.
It's not going to be enough, though.
It all depends on how many people you have.
Have you ever bought a house?
No.
Have you ever bought a car?
No.
Have you ever bought anything that cost more than the money you had on you at the time?
No.
You ever have a credit card?
No.
Okay, so do you understand that when people go to buy a house, they don't have the full amount?
Yes.
Okay, so then they don't have to come up with all the money at the time.
No, but I mean, imagine if everybody around you, you've helped like 30 people in your entire lifetime.
No, no, no.
We just did this.
We had 100 people.
And at some point, they need to come up with $800, right?
Yes.
Now, let's say you can get a car loan for eight years, believe it or not.
You can get a car loan for eight years, right?
Yes.
So, and just to take interest out of it for the moment, just, you know, for the sake of expediency, but...
So each of these people need to kick in $100 a year over 8 years.
Now, if they can't afford even that, then nobody will be selling $80,000 healthcare options.
Because they simply wouldn't exist.
I mean, it's like going down to try and sell a million dollar house on a beach in Haiti, right?
I'm sorry?
It would cost a lot anyway.
I mean, cancer treatment costs a lot regardless of what healthcare plan you've got.
And as I say...
No, it doesn't.
No, it doesn't.
It doesn't.
No, the reason that cancer treatments cost a huge amount is because the government restricts entry to the market by licensing doctors and the doctor's licenses are very strictly controlled.
By requiring ridiculous amounts of education.
By having a terrible court system where people have to pay unbelievable amounts in defensive liability insurance.
By restricting the spread of hospitals, you actually have to get a certificate of need.
To show if you're going to open up a clinic or a hospital, you can't just go and open it up on your own.
So they restrict supply in that way.
They restrict foreign doctors from practicing.
There are tax and other incentive problems with it.
And I've got an interview on my channel with a doctor.
It's actually the same doctor who operated on me for my neck problem.
And he says, look, healthcare is not that expensive.
And if you go to healthcare providers, even with all these ridiculous restrictions...
If you go to health care providers in the U.S. that don't take government money, they're really cheap.
And I won't get into the financial details of my operation, but it really wasn't that much.
And of course also because the government in America and in other places says that insurance companies cannot deny people based upon pre-existing conditions, all that people do is wait until they get sick and then buy health insurance.
And that's of course the exact opposite.
Of how insurance is supposed to work, right?
You can't buy fire insurance when your house is currently on fire.
Because the whole point is you're not supposed to know.
It's Dr.
Keith Smith from the Surgery Center of Oklahoma.
So no, healthcare, cancer treatments are not expensive.
Because there is some crazy...
It's the gold dust embedded in the chemotherapy bag.
They're ridiculously expensive.
Because of massive amounts of government involvement.
And in the past, I read an article from Dr.
Roderick Long on the show about two years ago, I think.
And healthcare had a huge problem a little over 100 years ago in America in that it was far too cheap and doctors were really upset that they couldn't make as much money as they wanted.
And poor people could get really great healthcare for $4 to $5 a year in terms of their insurance and doctors were really upset.
And that's when doctors started lobbying for licensing and, you know, the usual rent-seeking stuff that people do with government.
But there's absolutely no reason why healthcare should be as ridiculously expensive as it is now.
Of course, where you see this mismatch in price is because of horrible government involvement.
So you're saying there's no situation where the people around you shouldn't be able to afford whatever medical treatment that you need?
I'm sorry, I'm getting a little annoyed now because I'm not sure where I said anything like that.
No, but you said that healthcare is not that expensive, that the people around you should be able to afford it.
But, I mean, I'm just saying there's plenty of scenarios.
When did I say people around?
No, we had one example.
Yes.
So what's happening is you gave me an example of $80,000 in poor people.
Yes.
And I told you how they could help you for very little.
And then you said, well, cancer treatments are just really expensive.
And I said there's nothing inherently why cancer treatments are.
Well, it's just a hypothetical scenario.
Whatever it is...
It's not hypothetical to me.
I actually went through this stuff, right?
So I did four rounds of chemotherapy and a bunch of radiation treatments.
How expensive is all that?
For the person that we're talking about.
We're talking about how, let's just say, whatever it is you need is extremely expensive for whatever reason.
What if there are people around you who cannot possibly afford that?
Well, then you apply for charity.
Ah, I see.
So there's charity that's local around you, right?
Yes.
And then there's charity which is more remote.
So I sponsor a bunch of kids in Central America.
You know, we just give them money every month and they get their healthcare and they get their education and all that kind of stuff, right?
Yes.
Now, I mean, what are the odds of me ever meeting these kids?
Well, practically zero.
So I'm not sort of local.
They haven't been nice to me and therefore I'm nice back to them.
It's obviously just basic decent stuff to do.
So you would get charity, right?
And there would be people who would help out those who were in need.
So you have your community.
You have your family.
You have slow payment plans, delayed payment plans and so on.
And then you have charities.
Do you think if people stopped welfare, it would force people to be more altruistic and friendly so that they'd have that reciprocal altruism for the rest of society?
Oh, absolutely.
Welfare isolates people in ways that can scarcely be conceived of.
Because they don't need to Get themselves involved in the social web of reciprocal altruism.
They can isolate in ways that in the moment seems better in a way, right?
Oh, I don't have to go and help my neighbor because her kid's sick.
I don't have to go and do her groceries for her because I'd rather sit home and pick my belly lint and watch Grey's Anatomy, right?
And yes, of course, in the moment, reciprocal altruism can be sometimes a bit of a drag in the moment, right?
Yes.
And now the welfare state, oh, they're taken care of, they can just apply this, that, and the other, right?
And it's terrible and terrifying the degree to which the welfare state has isolated and alienated people.
And this is sort of what I talked about in the podcast where I apologize to Christians because The end of religion in many environments was the end of social reciprocity.
You know, you didn't go to church in the same way.
You didn't get to know your neighbors in the same way.
You didn't help people out in the same way.
And so when religion began to crumble as an institution, people could not find a substitute.
And I can understand that.
I mean, they could not find a substitute way of getting socially engaged And helping people out.
Because at least with religion, you go to the church, people have the same values.
Because we aim and act to further our values almost as much as our genetics, right?
I think Dawkins came up with this famous way of looking at ideas, not as genetically, but as memes.
They sort of flourish and spread in a similar way that genetics do.
So at least with A church, you would get together and say, well, we're all Anabaptists or whatever.
We're all swing aliens or Lutherans or whatever.
And so I'm furthering and expanding and extending a belief system that I respect and admire.
Now, the problem is when the church goes away from people's lives, while their neighbors may have very differing or even opposing religious or moral or philosophical beliefs, And so then, while you don't have anything genetically wildly in common with them, and mimetically, through the memes, you also are not going to be acting to further beliefs which you respect and admire.
Your neighbor might be a racist, might be a sexist, might be a nihilist, might be a communist, might be, you know, whatever, a socialist, might be a statist, right?
There might be someone whose ideas you actually would not want to help spread.
And so, to me, one of the central purposes of what I'm trying to do here is to give people a belief system that allows them to reform communities philosophically rather than superstitiously, rather than patriotically, but philosophically.
So a secular equivalent of a local church.
But yeah, because, except there's no such thing as local philosophy.
And so it is, you know, scientists all over the world speak the same language, so to speak.
And so it is a way of having people come together.
And this has been happening over the years, over the show, to varying degrees of success.
It's a challenge and all that.
But there have been people who've got together in communities, who respect and work with philosophy.
There are people, of course, who got married through the show, people who've radically changed their parenting through the show, and people who've gotten together with friends.
And most of my friends I've met through the show.
Because I know then by furthering their interests, I'm furthering the interests of philosophy.
And it's not, again, these kids in Central America have no idea what they believe.
Probably not philosophy, right?
But it gives us a chance to...
Through philosophy, it gives us a chance to get together and help each other out without the challenge of like, oh great, so I'm helping make the communists have more kids who are going to grow up to be crazy communists or fascists or, I don't know, there's some neo-Nazi skinhead three blocks over who needs a pie because he stubbed his toe, whatever.
And this is...
One of the huge projects of the 21st century is to find, like, it's genes or memes, right?
That's what brings community together outside of superstition and geography, right?
It's genes and memes.
Now, genes have some validity and, you know, I'll choose to save a human child over a monkey any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
But memes, we can get together and help each other based on memes, based upon shared beliefs.
Like there's this thing in society.
Okay, let me just give you a brief rant here.
Actually, maybe not that brief.
Get comfy.
But here's a basic sort of argument that I was working on today.
The brain, human brain, serves two purposes.
And for most of human history, those purposes have been at odds with each other.
The first purpose the human brain serves is to accurately process reality so that you don't attempt to eat a rock or make love to a giant ear of corn.
I mean, unless that's your thing.
But we have to accurately process reality.
That's what we do.
Now, that's one way in which we survive.
It's necessary but not sufficient.
We have to be alive in order to reproduce.
So the accurate processing of reality is foundational to the spread of our genes.
Now, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, we also need social approval to spread our genes.
Because we can accurately process reality.
Hey!
There's no god here!
Climb to the top of the volcano!
No fire god up here!
But then if you come back down and start saying to your fire god-believing tribe, there ain't no fire god at the top of the mountain, what's going to happen?
Well, you might get killed.
The women who all are the fire priest-worshipping women, or the fire god-worshipping women, won't have sex with you.
No eggs for you!
No soup, no eggs, no fire god.
And so we have this...
Opposition within our brain, which I believe is sort of the result, is the sort of foundation of most of what is called neurosis or mental illness or depression.
I have to process reality and I have to gain social approval.
Don't process reality, for men at least, can't gain resources, can't get eggs.
So don't process reality, can't reproduce.
Social disapproval Which generally boils down to female disapproval, means don't get to, even if I have resources, don't get to reproduce.
So, accurately process reality and conform to social norms.
Those are the two fundamental drivers of human consciousness.
And other animals too, but focus on people.
And the degree to which these things are in opposition is the degree to which a society is sick.
And so...
Philosophy aims, at least the way that I work with philosophy, the foundational goal is to heal this split between reality and society so that accurately processing reality does not set you at odds with social acceptance.
And social acceptance does not set you at odds With accurately processing reality.
So that you're not bouncing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
I've got to process reality, otherwise I can't get out of bed and I can't tie my shoes and I can't drive.
I've got to process reality because I've got to go hunt some deer and I need to know that I'm hunting deer and not trying to eat a tree.
I've got to accurately process reality.
I've got to accurately process reality.
I've got nothing.
I can't even live.
Okay, I've already processed reality.
I've got some crops.
I've got the leg of a deer.
I've got something.
So I go back and now I have to suddenly process social, quote, reality.
I have to process social approval because I've got all these resources.
I don't need social approval.
I can't have any kids.
Genes won't reproduce and therefore those genes that only process sense reality and don't conform to social reality don't get to reproduce.
So there's this split, right?
It's like there's a reason why the brain has two hemispheres.
One's for society, and one is for reality, and there's a tiny little thing that joins the two half-brains together.
Not too big.
It's bigger of women, I think, than it is in men.
And so for me, philosophy is God Almighty.
Do we not want...
Are we not dying to live?
Are we not dying to live in a world...
Where we can accurately process objective reality without running smack dab into ostracism and social hostility and all of that mess.
Wouldn't it be great to live in Utah and not have to believe in magic underpants?
Wouldn't that be great?
Wouldn't it be great to live in Rome and not have to pretend that you're actually...
Drinking the blood of your God and eating His flesh when you have wine and crackers.
Wouldn't it be great to live in reality and society without conflict between the two, without having to step from one realm to the other, from sane reality to crazy but necessary society?
Wouldn't that be great?
To not have to salute a flag like it's a cotton god.
Wouldn't it be great to live in a society where the same tools you use in reality are the same tools you use in society?
And that you would never be rejected for reason.
You would never be rejected for objectivity.
You'd never be rejected for common sense.
And reality and society would not be in opposition.
You wouldn't have to pretend to believe in things that are anti-rational in order to live in a sense-data reality called objective things and people's bullshit.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a sandwich With the cheese of reality, without these shit stains of culture, and not have to put a lot of mayonnaise on to cover up the taste of one, wouldn't it be great to live in a world where your reason led you not only to truth, but to love?
Where your objectivity led you not only to reality, but to respect and acceptance of your fellow balding primates?
Wouldn't it be great if you didn't have to have two halves of a brain joined tenuously in the middle?
Not too much!
Don't join that brain.
Don't join the social brain and the reality brain.
Too much!
Don't join them too much, whatever you do.
Short circuit.
Ah!
Doom!
I'm sorry.
I must have spoken some common sense.
Don't kill me, villagers.
Rights don't exist.
Get him!
Rip up tree.
Thump egghead who makes brain tickle uncomfortably like some giant lizard crawling through my conscience.
I mean, wouldn't it be great if you could simply point, hey, countries don't exist.
Must prevent that meme DNA from reproducing in society.
Because if that...
Because it's win-lose.
The people who believe that countries exist, the people who believe that gods exist, the people who surrender to and milk and use the general delusions of the society they live in, they get to reproduce.
Wouldn't it be great to live in a society where you were rational, objective, and eminently fuckable at the same time?
Wouldn't it be great to live in a society where the mass delusions of insane crowds were not the most fundamental aphrodisiac for producing the next generation?
Right?
Wouldn't it be great to live in a society where common sense was actually common?
Instead of this asylum of fertile madness where we have to pretend to be insane To start a family.
Sure.
I believe in that deity.
Can I get me some eggs?
Eggs for sale.
For crazy people, we've got eggs for sale.
Oh man, wouldn't that be great?
The eggs go to the rational.
Eggs go to those with sense.
Eggs go to the philosophical.
Eggs go to the objective.
Eggs go to the thinkers.
Rather than those who hold up a distorted mirror to distorted people, making them look sane.
Aha!
Do I really have to stick my penis through the glory hole of superstition in order to dump some sperm?
Really?
Come on.
I don't want to do that.
I don't want you and me and the Holy Ghost to lie down together.
I don't want to.
I don't want to.
I want you and me and reality to be in the bed together.
I don't want a menage a trois with you, me, and craziness.
That's not the lubricant that I want to be using.
Anyway, so it would be really nice if the same reality processing that we used for objective sense data could also be used in society.
Because communities form out of shared values.
And either those shared values are a splintered, balkanized, shard-broken, stained-glass, nonsensical dung heap of inherited historical superstitions, or we actually share reason, philosophy, evidence, UPB, peaceful parenting.
Oh my God, can you imagine?
I can see that world.
I really, I really, like I dream of that world.
I don't just mean like I dream of it like I daydream of it, like some kid watching trees blur by a train window.
I mean, I literally have dreams of that world where I wake up and I don't have to watch my words.
And I don't have to be like Polysyllabic ninja dog.
This person has brought up how much they respect the armed forces.
Now what?
Oh no!
What do I do?
Oh no!
What am I going to do?
This girl, she's so sexy and a socialist.
What do I do?
I don't have any of that.
It's not like people don't disagree.
Scientists disagree as well.
It's not like there's no progress.
There's massive progress.
Because people are in reality thinking clearly, thinking sensibly, and making massive progress.
They're not dreaming their ways.
They're not dreaming their lives away trying to climb on the square circle rocket ship of delusions and heaven hunger.
So, that's the world that we need.
When society broke down, when Christendom broke down, and this wasn't just the rise of secularism and communism and socialism, it was also when you have massive amounts of immigrants who come into a country without that country's traditions.
So, as I've talked about before, Western Europe, kind of like the Freedom Club, shared history that goes back to the ancient Greeks, thousands of years of fairly common history.
And when you get a bunch of people from other cultures, opposing cultures, and cultures that have radically different and opposing histories, well, people cocoon.
Doesn't that contradict your idea about there being no nations?
Because if you have nations with defined borders, it reduces the degree of cultural bleed.
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
There is no such thing as countries.
Well, I mean, everybody else thinks there is.
I mean, the point is that they are legal entities.
The borders actually do exist.
The border patrols actually do exist.
If cultural bleed from one nation to another is causing problems or one culture to another, then you can look at countries as a sort of security grid for a particular culture to prevent alienation or balkanization.
So countries could...
Well, sure, sure.
I completely understand that.
And this is a big, complex topic, so I can only touch on it briefly here.
I mean, I think you raised an excellent point.
But the way that a particular group keeps another group from infiltrating it is through ostracism, right?
Right or wrong, we know that this happens, right?
So when a black politician gains power...
Whose interests does he generally try to promote?
Black people and people who are pro-black people.
Yeah, black people and people who are pro-black people.
They hire a lot of black people.
They give a lot of subsidies to black colleges and black businesses, and they try to ramp up affirmative action.
This is very well understood, and it's actually been somewhat studied, shockingly, of all conclusions around race.
And there are a bunch of black businesses often are interested in hiring and promoting black people.
I've got no issue with that.
It's fine.
It's perfectly fine.
And if there's a black neighborhood and they don't want a white family to move in, which certainly is sometimes the case, then they simply would put pressure on the real estate agent to get some brothers and sisters coming into the neighborhood.
If a white family did move in, they might be ostracized.
I mean there could be any number of ways in which a community or a group of shared identity or shared beliefs could keep Other people from coming into that country.
But you see, the welfare state has eliminated that barrier.
Rightly or wrongly, I'm simply describing a fact.
Because the welfare state forces people to provide for newcomers that they may not approve of.
And so the capacity for communities To segregate is significantly diminished.
Look, there's not a lot of people who want to move from Poland right into the heart of Chinatown, right?
I mean Chinatown exists for that very reason.
The Chinese didn't want to come and go and live in little Poland or little Italy or little Greece or whatever.
They wanted to be around people like themselves.
These are just basic facts.
85-90% of US churches are like one race or another, not intermingled.
These are just basic facts.
But the welfare state has eliminated the capacity to create a community cohesion through ostracism or rejection.
And rightly or wrongly, this is just a description of what's happened.
So cohesion is undermined by statism.
And by cohesion, I'm not talking better or worse or anything like that.
But these are just...
So you could say, well, countries are a good bulwark against these kinds of things, but they're not, in general, at least since this multiculturalism fetish has hit the West.
And, you know, there was someone, I think it was someone in the States, who put out a questionnaire, was going to have a talk on, you know, name me benefits of multiculturalism that aren't limited to food and music.
Where are the studies that say multiculturalism is great?
I mean, there's tons of examples of how multiculturalism, as it's called, is terrible, wretched, disastrous, dysfunctional, problematic, isolating.
I mean, the more multicultural the neighborhood gets, social cohesiveness goes down, kids playing outside goes down, happiness goes down, cocooning goes up, people just basically hide inside their Their houses.
Now, I mean, in a future society, when everyone's philosophical, great!
You know, I'm not saying, oh my goodness, we should never have any cultures together.
The whole point is to move beyond what is currently called multiculturalism by having kind of like a one culture called philosophy, right?
That's...
You know, philosophy is to culture as science is to superstition, right?
Yes, but that's an ideal in the future.
I mean, practically right now...
That's to say you wanted to prevent a rational Western society from being dissolved by other cultures.
It would be more practical, because in lieu of getting rid of the welfare state, which would be harder, to drum up patriotism and nationalism and then call for stricter border controls.
That would actually do a lot of good insofar as social cohesion would be concerned.
No, but we don't need stricter border controls.
I mean, there was significant cohesion in America in various communities in the 19th century with almost no border controls.
Because they had the melting pot model rather than multiculturalism.
Right.
But they didn't have a welfare state.
So the welfare state, we talked about isolating.
It doesn't just mean in terms of individuals.
It means in terms of entire ethnicities and communities and cultures.
You don't have to have a melting pot if you don't have to conform to any dominant cultural paradigms.
Because if you're with welfare, you can all silo and self-segregate.
I mean, God, I'm just...
Diversity.
I mean, diversity.
Chechens and Russians, how are they coming along?
Tamils and Sinhalese, how are they getting along?
Ooh, how do the Hindus and Muslims get along?
Sunnis and Shias, Turks and Kurds, Tutsis and Hutus, Muslims and Israelis and Palestine, Jews and Germans, Cambodians and Vietnamese, Ugandans and Indians, Germans and Muslims, Swedes and Muslims, Dutch and Muslims, French and Muslims, Turks and Armenians.
It's not...
I mean, for the most part, there's quite a distaste for diversity in most societies.
If you look at liberals, I mean, who do they associate, mostly?
Other liberals.
Conservatives hang out with conservatives.
Military people often hang out with military people.
Rich people tend to hang out with rich people.
Really smart people tend to hang out with really smart people.
I mean...
It's just not the way things work outside of wildly coercive government social engineering.
And again, my goal, of course, is if you look at these divisions that I was just talking about, they're national and religious.
But religions are not true and nations don't exist.
And so in the long run, we want a society of philosophy.
Where we're all kind of speaking the same language of reason and evidence, and then we won't have any of this stuff.
Right now we do.
We still disagree, though.
I mean, I follow reason as well, but I disagree with you on the nature of nations and the military.
Of course, absolutely we disagree, and that's great.
A society without disagreement is like a man without a conscience.
You know, the only people who don't disagree with themselves are sociopaths, and the only societies that don't disagree with each other, at least obviously, are dictatorships.
And so disagreement is foundational.
Absolutely.
Completely and totally.
Scientists disagree.
Mathematicians disagree.
And that's progress.
Whatever they agree on, it's because the science is actually settled.
And no progress can be made because it's either impossible or accepted.
So, yeah, disagreement is great.
But disagreement is not the problem.
The problem is the methodology of resolving the disagreement.
And in religion there isn't any.
And in nations there isn't any either.
And so...
There is only one way to resolve any dispute between any human being, to resolve it rather than have a win-lose, and that's through objective philosophy, science, reason, evidence, or in the free market, price and voluntary trade.
I'm just saying that a society where everyone is rational and philosophical wouldn't necessarily look like how you imagine it would be because of the fact that rational people disagree on whether or not nations should exist and things like that.
Well, should exist, that's sort of a contradiction, right?
Well, I mean, it depends.
Should means conditional, exist is not, right?
Rock exists, whether we should, we think it should or shouldn't, a rock exists or it doesn't, right?
There's no such thing as should this rock exist, right?
No, but I mean, you're visualizing a certain kind of society that would result from people being philosophical rather than any other cultural paradigm.
But it wouldn't necessarily look like how you envision it.
I don't know what that means.
Are you honestly trying to tell me that a society that will exist hundreds of years in the future may not be exactly what I anticipate?
Yes.
Of course.
I mean, I don't even know why you need to bring that up.
You take it for granted that nations wouldn't exist, that flags wouldn't exist, and things like that.
I mean, in your personal interpretation...
In a rational society, of course these things would not exist.
Well, I disagree.
It's like saying gods are accepted by atheists.
It's a contradiction.
They would exist in museums, as in, can you believe what people used to believe?
But...
Well, because flags can represent...
Things which are disproven by philosophy in a philosophical society will not be accepted.
But flags can represent principles.
I mean, for example, the American flag to some people represents constitution.
Oh, God.
Look, I mean, but if you're just going to redefine stuff, then we can't even have a conversation.
Because the word flags means, almost invariably, that which is a symbol of a country.
And if you're going to say, well, we're going to redefine it to mean principles.
Okay, yeah.
I can define God as reason and then call myself religious.
Okay.
Yes, but a country's government and legal system can represent those principles, and other countries will not have necessarily those principles represented in the government and legal system.
Well, see, now you're talking about government, right?
Yes.
But governments rely upon the initiation of the use of force and the general acceptance of the population that either there is no initiation of the use of force on governments or that it's morally justified.
Which means that people have to have two standards of violence.
One for private citizens, which is illegal, and one for public representatives, which is moral.
Which means, by definition, you have massive contradictions in society, and therefore it's not a philosophical society.
Well, not if you don't think that it's a contradiction to have two definitions of violence.
So you don't think it's a contradiction to have two opposing definitions of the virtues of violence for the same species?
No.
But that's a debate for another time.
Not really.
Okay, let's move on to the next caller because I don't know how to do Logic 101 at that level.
Mike, who do we have up next?
All right, up next today is Josh.
Josh wrote in and said, I have recently come out of a six-month relationship and I'm trying to learn what things I might have done that were damaging to the relationship.
I have a hard time trusting women because of past experiences and that difficulty is the reason she gave for distancing herself from me.
How can I decide if warning signs are legitimate or if I'm just being insecure?
Good question, Josh.
I can give you one warning sign.
Did she break up with you?
I don't know.
You what now?
She said she needed time.
And I've seen her once in the three weeks since...
She said she needed time.
So I'm not really sure the status of that.
I mean, she obviously didn't mean either the Pink Floyd song or the subscription to the American magazine.
She meant what by this, she needs time?
I guess time to think, time to sort out her life.
Nope.
I can tell you when a woman says time, she needs time.
When a woman says that she needs time, she's trying to figure out if she can do better than you.
So she, you know, in case she can't do better than you, she doesn't want to break up with you.
But if she can do better than you, she wants to have a guilt-free transition.
Okay.
That makes sense.
Because if you don't want to be with someone...
You just break it off.
Just break it off, right?
Okay.
You know, I tell you what, saying I need time is like you buy two tablets knowing you're going to return one, right?
Because, I don't know, I'll play around with both and see which one I want.
I'm not keeping them both.
I need time with the tablets.
But they're not both staying.
Right.
So, let's go back Because you said you're out of a relationship, right?
Right.
I wasn't quite sure if you were or not.
Yeah, I mean, it feels like I am, but that's why I wrote that I was, because it feels like it.
Right.
Do you want to be out of the relationship?
I don't know.
I don't think so.
Really?
And I'm kind of...
I feel like that's...
Not a logical way to think that if she...
Because I know that if she doesn't want to talk about things, that it means that she doesn't want to talk about things.
And that she doesn't want to improve things.
So I should not be encouraged, or I should be...
I should take that as a sign that she doesn't want to put any effort into...
Well, it's not a sign.
It's not a sign.
Like, if you walk into a pole and break your nose, it's not a sign.
I mean, it's an injury, right?
Yeah.
It's not something that you need to decode, right?
So, she said she doesn't want to be your girlfriend at the moment, and she's not making any effort to fix anything or talk things through, right?
Right.
Right.
So...
I mean, we talked about getting together tomorrow morning for coffee, but we got together last Sunday for coffee, and she basically repeated the same thing that she needed time.
I mean, she does have a lot going on in her life right now professionally and with her living situation, so I kind of feel like that might have something to do with it.
When she originally said she needed time, she said that she just has too much to think about right now.
She didn't want to think about that.
Has she expressed any understanding of how difficult this unresolved situation is for you?
Verbally, she said that she knows that this is hard.
For you?
Yeah.
She knows it's hard for you?
Yeah.
I think so.
She said that.
Oh.
Because you give me, well, verbally, and I think so.
Well...
I don't know.
I mean, when we got together last time, I could see that her eyes were welling up.
You know, that she was kind of welling up with tears.
She didn't actually cry, but...
I mean, I didn't either.
And...
And how long had you been going out with the woman for?
About six months.
And when did things begin to go awry?
Do you want to know about the warning signs that I've noticed or when things blew up?
Well, did they blow up?
I mean, I thought it would just sort of fade it out.
Did it blow up?
Well, it was an argument because I confronted her about...
A relationship she had with a male friend.
A friendship.
Yeah, that sounds juicy enough that we'll call philosophy gossip, or gossip philosophy.
So, what happened there?
With the encounter that brought me to confront her?
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, I had been texting her when I was out of work and during the day on a Friday and asking her how her day was and we were talking periodically through the evening and she said she had a rough day and that she was looking forward to sleeping in the next morning and I work on Saturdays so I texted her in the morning saying, you know, good morning, I hope you had a chance to sleep in She said, yeah, it was great.
I'm out to breakfast with a friend.
And she explained to me that it was this guy friend of hers who lives a little over an hour away.
And right there, I had a flash of concern and jealousy from, I think, previous relationships that had issues with ex-boyfriends and that kind of thing.
So, but this wasn't an ex-boyfriend, is that right?
I don't know.
And did she tell you ahead of time?
I don't think she did.
You just happened to call her when she said she was going to sleep in and she was out having breakfast with another guy.
Right.
And then the next day I was spending time with her and she was telling me how Saturday she was hungover because she was out at a You know, a bar restaurant with that same friend and one of his friends the night before on Friday night.
And so I was like...
What?
So she was out with another guy Friday?
And was it Sunday morning she was having breakfast with this guy?
Oh, the same guy.
So she was out with him Friday night and then she was having breakfast with him on the Sunday?
On Saturday morning.
Yeah.
I would not...
I would not put up with that.
I mean, and I wouldn't even not put up with it.
It'd be just like, okay, well, good luck with the new guy.
Yeah.
Because that is taking the new boyfriend, potential boyfriend, for a test drive.
Yeah.
So, no, that would be like, well, good luck, but, you know, we're done.
Because you're not hanging out with some guy Friday night and then having breakfast with him Saturday morning when I don't even know what's going on.
So that's not unreasonable for me to be upset about.
I don't know why this needs to be spelled out to people.
I don't know.
We're just supposed to be okay with everything.
Well, I guess that's okay.
Men and women can be friends.
Well, and that's the thing.
She said that we both moved to the state that we're living in from other states.
And so all of her friends here she's met In the five months prior to me meeting her.
And so...
What?
What?
Hang on.
What?
What?
Oh, so she moved here like a year ago?
Yeah, like about a year ago.
And then you moved around six months ago?
No, I've been here for almost four years.
Okay, so this is a new friend that she met over the last year.
Yeah.
Okay.
Now, why do guys become friends with girls?
I always figured because they're waiting in queue.
Yeah.
I'm on deck, man.
Anything happens with numbnuts, I'm here.
I'm poised to drop, you know?
Did you ever see the movie?
This is kind of an older one now.
It's the first movie, Mission Impossible.
It's been years, but yeah.
So Tom Cruise...
Okay, Scientology plus washboards, it's always a tough call with a Tom Cruise movie, but...
So Tom Cruise is hanging like a starfish from these ropes or wires, right?
And he like...
He falls down and he stops right above the ground, right?
This is guys around girls.
We're suspended like starfish with these robes.
And the moment the boyfriend leaves the room, I gotta pee, man.
We fall down.
We'll stop.
You know, like three millimeters above the woman's body.
Falling down like sperm-laden starfish.
Worst porn ever.
But that's, I mean, hey, you're new in town.
I'd like to be your friend.
Come on.
I mean, come on.
Does anybody not know how biology works?
Is this really...
Egg!
New egg in town.
Starfish!
Assume the position.
Cut the cores.
Boyfriend's back.
Quick!
Stop right above.
Well, I didn't want to...
I wanted to believe...
I mean, I still want to believe that she didn't do anything with him.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
No, and I understand that.
I guess I'm mad now because she is very smart.
And she knows these things.
She knows about biology.
She knows how guys think.
So she should know that...
But is she playing dumb?
Is she like, we're just friends.
And is she also then like, I don't know what you're so upset about.
I mean, can't I even have a guy friend?
Are you that possessive?
No, she basically, as soon as I brought it up, I brought it up as gently as I could and as non-accusationally as I could.
I just said, this guy friend of yours, is there anything that I should feel like I should worry about?
See, dude, this is not a question to ask.
What's she going to say?
Like seriously, what's she going to say?
I guess if she were honest...
Is she going to say, absolutely you should worry.
I'm totally hot for him.
She's going to lie.
And do you know how you know she's going to lie?
Because she already did lie.
Because she already did lie.
By not telling me.
Because she didn't tell you until after the fact.
And she might not have told you Had you not interrupted the brunch with a phone call?
Yeah.
I'll tell you how this could work.
Oh!
That's interesting.
So let's just say you're having coffee, right?
I mean, I don't know.
Did you meet for coffee after you found out about Mr.
Brunch?
No, we were spending an afternoon together on the Sunday previous...
And that's when she told me about the Friday thing.
And knowing that he lived over an hour away was just like, alright, I have to bring this up because...
Wait, so the dude drove in Friday night for an hour and then had breakfast with your girlfriend the next morning?
Which meant he spent the night in town, right?
That would be what would make the most sense.
Oh, dear God.
Dear God.
Okay.
Are you left-handed or right-handed?
Right-handed.
Okay.
Now reach.
You've got two thighs that come together.
Reach right where the Y is.
Do you feel those two, like, little sacky, heavy things?
Yeah.
Is this the first time you've felt them in about six months?
Are you kidding me?
Is there anything I should be worried about?
I don't mean to make fun.
I'm like, I'm sorry, but you need this.
Yeah, I think I do.
Oh my god!
Oh no!
He drove back after a night of clubbing and then he just came back for breakfast!
Oh god!
I mean, I guess...
Oh my god!
I guess one of the reasons, some of the reasons why I was hesitant to not believe her is because of some of her other qualities that are just amazing.
I mean...
Yeah, no, I got it.
I mean, I hope you're not doing this for a horrible woman.
No, I mean...
No, not at all.
She's probably...
You know, with some slack-jawed vagina and a head full of socialist nonsense, I hope that you're doing this for someone who's got just enough qualities to make the dick in a blender worth it.
No, I mean, she's probably one of the...
Highest quality women I've dated.
Right.
Fantastic.
Okay.
I think that's great and good for you, right?
Good for you.
Now, I'm going to give you some very politically incorrect feedback here.
What you were being put through is called, by some people, a shit test.
Now, if she is as high quality a woman as you say, and I Perfectly happy to accept this.
A woman is going to try and get the best provider that her eggs can possibly get.
The best provider.
The most assertive, alpha, if you want to call it that, high octane, king of the hill, chest-thumping winner that she can, right?
Because if she undersells her eggs, there's no such thing as evolution, and we all have to believe that we were made out of Play-Doh by space ghosts, right?
Right.
The whole point is the high-quality woman, or all women, they absolutely need to get the highest quality Sperm and provisions for their eggs.
Highest possible quality.
You know, there's an old joke that Jerry Seinfeld used to make.
Maximum strength pain reliever.
Maximum strength.
What does that mean?
It's like, okay, that dose that will kill me, back it off a tiny bit.
Just a tiny bit.
Maximum strength.
One more molecule and your head will explode.
Maximum strength.
But this is what the woman's eggs are calling for.
Maximum strength alpha provider.
Maximum strength.
Right?
And this is why men get tested.
How are you going to handle this?
Are you maximum strength alpha provider?
What are my eggs worth?
This is exactly...
Look, have you ever been to an auction?
If I have, it was when I was a child.
Wrong!
The correct answer is you were just in one.
You were just in one.
And you have been many times.
Because the eggs are on the block.
And the person who bids the most gets the eggs.
Now, I'm just talking biology, right?
There's virtue and there's philosophy and there's now wealth and all this kind of stuff.
There's now wealth too, right?
But in general, the basic drivers for female sexuality are highest bidder gets the eggs.
Right?
Which is why in the South, the politician marries the beauty queen.
Right?
I mean, Joe McCarthy, politician from the 50s, he married the woman, voted the most beautiful woman in her college, in her university.
You know, the old song, your dad is rich and your mama's good looking.
It's the way it works.
Looks by resources, resources by looks.
But when a woman is young, she wants a young man.
Because if she goes for an older man, she gets lower quality sperm.
In fact, because men are becoming parents older, there's theories that the rise in autism is due to a decline in the quality of male sperm.
Right.
So if the woman gets an older man, she has trouble because she's a plus and minus.
The older man has...
If he has resources, then she's guaranteed the resources.
But his sperm is older and also...
She will face an old age alone, plus her middle age will be taking care of him in his old age, right?
So there's problems.
So she wants a young guy, but if she wants a young guy, she has a big problem because she doesn't know if the young guy is going to succeed or not, right?
So how does she figure out if the young guy is going to succeed or not?
Josh, how does she do that?
She tests him.
She tests him.
Exactly.
How assertive is he?
How clear is he?
How dominant is he?
And dominant doesn't mean like violent or...
It doesn't mean anything like that.
Is he going to win in competition?
Now the competition can be free market competition, right?
Doesn't have to...
You've got to go be a hitman or something, right?
Is he going to win?
Well, she needs to test him.
Now, is this...
And men test women, too.
We can talk about that another time.
But she is going to have to test him to see how he deals with a situation where he damn well needs to be assertive.
Yeah.
So...
So you're talking about, like, a biological-driven...
Do you think that a woman of virtue would choose not to do this kind of...
No, but prior to virtue, you need self-knowledge.
Right?
Prior to virtue, you need self-knowledge.
Because hypergamy, or the woman's drive to trade up, to get the maximum...
Resource quality she can for her eggs.
A woman needs self-knowledge to understand this driving aspect of female nature.
Just as a man needs self-knowledge to understand the driving aspects of male nature.
Right?
And so it's not a question of virtue initially.
So if she has...
gone to therapy, if she's got some understanding of why women wear makeup, of why they wear high heels, of why they have padded bras, of why they cinch their waist, of why they accentuate their lips and their eyes, of why they, like if she has some understanding of this and understands that we only like if she has some understanding of this and understands that we only exist because of biological drivers, and to assume that we can surmount these biological drivers and somehow live as if they never occurred is
Because the only reason we are who we are and we do what we do and we have what we have is because of these biological drivers.
Right.
And for some reason, I don't know exactly why.
I really don't.
But for some reason, it is knowledge that has vanished from society.
For some reason, women can't be frank and honest about these drivers.
And for some reason men have forgotten all this stuff or maybe we were never taught.
This used to be much more common knowledge.
And it's just vanished and I don't know if it comes out of statism or socialism.
It doesn't come out of religion, to my knowledge.
But it's this sort of modern politically correct stuff.
We simply can't talk about the biological drivers that are the reason that we're at the top of the food chain.
We simply can't talk about these.
You know, like this woman a while back ago, quite a while back ago on the show, was like, you know, women just like to look pretty because they like shiny objects.
They like magpies.
It's like, no, come on.
Come on.
Magpies like shiny objects because it raises their status in sexual selection.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Women like to look pretty because it gains them more resources.
I mean, this can't be that hard for people to figure out.
I mean, I knew this stuff in my teens.
No, I understand all that.
She's not the type of woman that gets dressed up and super flashy.
I mean, she works in the technology field.
She She never wears makeup that I've seen.
She does volunteer work.
But this is just one manifestation of it, right?
Yeah.
I mean, none of this is...
We understand, none of this is bad.
I think that there's a certain amount of fakery involved in it.
I mean, in the makeup side of things.
Mm-hmm.
Which exists on two levels.
One is that the makeup makes a woman look older or younger, depending on what she wants.
It makes her look more sexually aroused, for the most part, particularly lipstick.
And that's sort of the one fakery.
And the second fakery is that women aren't just honest.
You know, I just wear makeup to feel good.
Come on!
That's right.
And guys have Maseratis because they like going fast.
Do-do-do.
Not you, right?
Just this dishonesty about why human beings do what they do.
But with her, I mean, it may not be beauty.
It may be intelligence, right?
Yeah.
Whatever it is.
And she may be willing to sacrifice income for intelligence.
So if there was some dumb guy with a lot of money and some smart guy with less money, she might go for the smart guy.
Because maybe her genes have been focused on the development of intelligence.
Right?
Yeah.
Although intelligence and income are related.
She's very smart.
Is she?
And I'm not saying this in terms of her tech skills or anything like that, or her business skills.
That's...
But does she know, does she have any idea why she would do something as completely ridiculous and horrifying and relationship destroying as having some guy drive for an hour to hang out with her on Friday night and have fucking breakfast with her on Saturday?
Does she have any idea why she did that?
She acted like she knew.
In other words, is she wise or is she just smart?
I think she's smart.
I don't know how wise she is.
Okay, so if you want the woman, then you need to know what the test is.
And then you need to pass the test.
I'm not saying the woman's worth having if she doesn't even know why she's doing this.
But if you want her, then you can pass the test.
But if she doesn't know why she's doing it, your life will just be this endless series of stupid tests.
And you'll have to keep your wits about you, and you'll never feel secure.
Yeah.
But if you want, you just have to pass the test.
So when she says she needs time, she's saying, I need to figure out if you're going to pass this test.
You know, I like you enough that I'm willing to give you a shot.
I'll let you retake the test a couple of times.
But, you know, I know how this conversation goes.
Right?
Do you want to play her and I'll play you?
I know how this is going to go.
Sure.
Okay.
We call her Deidre.
Okay.
Foo-foo was last time.
This is Deidre, right?
I'm sorry to give her such an Enid Blyton name, but okay.
Yeah, Deidre, you know, I'm sorry this took me so long.
I guess I was wrapped up in this politically correct stuff, but I've had a conversation with my nutsack, and that's complete bullshit what you did with this guy.
Completely unacceptable in a relationship.
If you're ever going to do anything like that again...
We have no relationship.
You cannot have a guy drive for an hour, hang out with you Friday night, have breakfast with you Saturday, and you only tell me about it Sunday.
I know guys, maybe you can pretend not to, he wants to have sex with you, he wants to be your boyfriend, and you're playing along with it.
It's ridiculous, it's humiliating, and completely unacceptable.
So make your choice.
If you want to keep pulling shit like that, then you need a guy without a spine and with only one nut sack.
If you don't, If you're willing to actually treat me with respect and not have other guys sniffing around, then great.
We can move forward.
But otherwise, you've got to make the choice.
And listen, this is not a difficult choice, so I'm not going to give you time.
This is like a yes-no.
If you want to be with me, no, no, no.
This kind of shit can't be happening.
It can't be happening.
You need to tell me ahead of time, and I need to have veto power.
Because you have veto power on me.
How the hell would you feel if some woman drove for an hour to come hang out with me On a Friday night and then I had breakfast with her on a Saturday.
Come on.
This is not how we're going to be.
This is ridiculous.
And what would she say?
I have no idea.
Good.
That means it's new territory.
Well, she might say something like, I can't believe you're being this jealous.
Don't you trust me?
I was like, no, I don't trust you.
Because if you think that it's somehow okay for a guy to drive an hour, hang out with you Friday night till late, and then have breakfast with you Saturday morning, if you think that's okay, and that there's no problem with it whatsoever, of course I don't trust you.
I mean, because basically I lend you my car, you drive it into a wall in the parking lot, and then you look up from the smoking wreckage and you say, well, don't you think I'm a good driver?
It's like, I got a smoking car that says you're not.
And I got a bit of a smoking heart now that says, if you don't know that's a really bad decision, if you don't understand that that's a really bad decision, incredibly insulting to both of us, then no, I don't trust you.
Now, if you're willing to say, you know what?
I was kind of sleazy.
Of course it was not right.
And if this had happened, if this had been a girl with you, I would feel the same.
It was bad.
And then we talk about how the hell this ended up happening, how you thought this was going to go down, why you didn't tell me.
We can have that conversation.
But right now, until you admit that that was a really bad decision and an obviously bad decision, no way do I trust you.
Which is why the relationship can only continue if you do admit that.
Or even have a chance.
Now, she's either going to double down and say you're being possessive, you're being crazy, he's just a friend.
It's like, okay, well then all you're telling me is that you don't have a clue what you're doing in a relationship.
And that's fine.
Then you've got to go and have no clue with someone else.
But I know that this is a really bad decision.
I would never accept this from anybody who was going to have my heart in their hands.
So, good luck to you.
Bye-bye.
And the good luck is because you're really going to need it.
Yeah.
And if she's willing to say, you know, maybe you got a point or whatever, then you can start having a conversation.
But that's her choice, right?
Yeah.
So I have to decide whether or not her good qualities...
No.
Listen, man.
Josh, there are not enough good qualities...
To overcome what she did.
No, I mean enough good qualities to even try and talk to her.
Just let her go.
Don't even deal with it.
Look, it depends if you care about her.
Now, if you don't care about her at all, I assume that's not the case because you're still hanging around after weeks, right?
Yeah.
If you don't care about her and you make your decision to not see her, then you can just fade into the woodwork, right?
Yeah.
Like that Steve Buscemi voiced chameleon in Monsters, Inc.
Up into the wall.
I faded.
I'm gone.
I'm Casper going through walls.
Then you can just vanish and leave her to the disasters that are going to inevitably accrue to her dating life until someone tells her the truth.
Now, if you do care about her, and what this means is that you care about her even if she's not going to go out with you, Then you sit her down and say, listen, I'm in some kind of crazed sperm haze or something.
I don't know why this took me so long.
But you can't.
You can't do that.
You can't be doing that stuff.
If you feel the need to test someone, then say to the man, I feel the need to test you.
I feel uncertain.
You've got to have the self-knowledge to do that.
You don't actually act it out.
Mm-hmm.
Right, and so then she may, you know, it may work out, so to speak, it may not, but at least she'll have heard the truth from someone, right?
Yeah.
And you understand that if you had done this to the woman, I'd be saying exactly the same thing to you.
This is not a male versus female thing.
Yeah.
Like if you say, oh, this girl come down and she spent the night somewhere in proximity and at breakfast, I'd say, come on, what are you, crazy?
Yeah.
I don't think that the woman has enough self-knowledge.
Listen to this kind of show.
You need a woman who's dedicated to self-knowledge.
You need a man who's dedicated to self-knowledge if you're gay or a woman.
You need someone who's really into self-knowledge.
You also need someone with a conscience.
Right, so she has this guy sniffing around her, spending the night in proximity, or maybe with, I don't know, maybe they just slept in the same bed together.
Well, nothing happened!
Like, actually, it did.
It's not all about the penis and vagina.
I mean, I drove home drunk, but nothing happened.
Well, it kind of did, right?
You were impaired.
Yeah.
If she doesn't sort of sit there and say to herself, well, what did I do?
And that's what I mean.
Did she really say, as far as I understood it, when I asked if she had sympathy for how hard it was for you, she said basically that I know the waiting is hard, right?
She said that I know it's hard to be apart after being a big part of each other's lives for six months.
I think that's almost verbatim.
And did she at any point ever say, I'm sorry that I decided to hang with a guy for a night and a morning and possibly in between that caused a rupture in our relationship?
No.
So no conscience?
As far as that goes?
No sort of waking up thinking, oh God, what did I do?
Not towards that.
And no apologies for that behavior, right?
No.
So, Josh, I'm giving you more...
I'm sorry to keep breaking in, but I'm going to give you more very important information here.
Are you ready?
I take as much as you can give me.
I'm a big follower.
Did you let go of your balls, right?
Yeah.
You're swinging free?
You're cast netting?
Okay.
You don't need to grab them for this part.
But what this means is that Deidre...
Either has not told her friends what she did, which is not good.
Because it means she's not getting any independent feedback from anyone.
So either she hasn't told her friends or her family.
Right?
Because...
Let's just take her family.
She's got a mom, right, I assume?
Yeah, I've met her twice.
Okay.
So...
Deidre's down and her mom says, what's the matter?
And she says, oh, you know, Josh and I are, I don't know, we're taking a break or something like that, right?
And she'd say, the mom would say, well, what happened, right?
And then Deidre would say, ah, you know, he just got upset.
I mean, this guy drove an hour down to come and party with me on a Friday night.
I didn't tell Josh about it.
And then Josh called while I was having breakfast with the guy the next morning, and then he just got upset.
And do you know what her mom would say?
Well, of course he got upset.
Are you kidding me?
Here, let me slowly upend this ice water on your head to see if I can get your brain started in some shocking manner, right?
Yeah.
You're like, what?
Are you surprised?
Like, that's what would happen.
Right?
If she had, you know, like a halfway decent mom, right?
Yeah.
Now, maybe her mom doesn't notice that she's upset, which is a big problem, because it means that the mom doesn't even know what her daughter's moods are, which means she's not had empathy modeled for her, which is probably why she wouldn't have much of a conscience about these issues.
And this could be her mom or her dad, right?
Probably slightly more likely to talk about herself with her mom than her dad or whatever, right?
Or maybe she's got some friends and her friends say, well, Deirdre, you seem to be down.
What's the matter, right?
Oh, you know, Josh and I had this big problem, this big blow-up, whatever, right?
Now, she probably would try and talk about it in some self...
I'm compressing the conversation because Deirdre would probably try and talk about it in some self-justifying manner.
Right.
Like, try and frame it like, well, he just kind of went crazy out of nowhere, all that happened was, and she'd minimize, but people would ask questions, right?
And they'd get to the core of things pretty quickly, right?
And then they'd ask her the question, well, you know, if the situation was reversed, how would you feel if some hot girl was out partying with him and then having breakfast with him the next morning, how would you feel?
But, you know, empathy 101, right?
Right.
Right.
Now, if she'd had this conversation with her mom or her friends and her mom and or her friends cared about her and had any goddamn standards whatsoever, then she'd call up and she'd say, oh, Josh, oh, my God.
I'm so ashamed.
I'm so embarrassed.
I can't believe I did that to you.
You were in the right.
I can't believe that I did that.
I'm shocked at myself.
I'm appalled at myself.
Whatever.
She'd apologize in some way that was really meaningful.
And you'd have a conversation about it.
What would happen?
I don't know.
But what this tells you, the fact that she hasn't circled back and apologized means that she's keeping secrets from people around her.
And the people around her don't know or care enough about her to notice that.
People aren't alone.
They aren't just themselves.
Like the beginning of romance, you've met her mom a couple of times, so that's great, but the beginning of romance often is sort of pretending that the other person doesn't have a history or a context.
It's like, let's cocoon, let's isolate, let's have sex and attempt to screw history out of our cerebral cortex, right?
But people have a context, and the fact that she's not circling back means that the people around her are not calling her On her crap.
Or she's not mentioning it.
But that doesn't matter.
That doesn't count.
Because if she doesn't mention it, then the people around her should notice.
That she's, right?
Either she has no emotional reaction whatsoever to you guys not being together, in which case I don't even know what to say.
Like, oh my god, run from that dangerous, nut-crushing robot as fast as you can.
Or, she is sad about you guys not being together, in which case the people around her should say, hey, you seem sad.
What's going on, right?
Yeah.
And what that means is that she doesn't have a corrective mechanism.
She doesn't have A family or a social circle, a familial or social circle, that gives her any kind of accurate reflection on her behavior.
She's flying blind without a support system, without a clear mirror, without a feedback mechanism.
Does this make any sense?
Yeah, I think that's as close to accurate as anybody could put it.
I think that's it exactly.
That means you are fucked.
Because she doesn't have it within her, and she doesn't have it without her, like outside of her.
Right.
Some corrective mechanism.
Now, the fact that she doesn't have it around her, in the people around her, is probably why she doesn't have it internally, right?
Right.
But basically, that reflect and correct mechanism I call a conscience.
Well, I also call UPB, but that's a topic for another time.
But that reflect and correct.
What did I do?
Was it right?
How would I feel if somebody else did it?
Just that basic.
Now, I say basic, but it's not a matter of intelligence.
Emotional intelligence and cerebral intelligence, not the same thing.
Right.
Right.
Now, if she doesn't have this reflect and correct mechanism, then, you know, you're stepping dick first into a high-powered car with a blind driver.
Right?
It's just a matter of time until you get all Scott Walker into the stratosphere.
Yeah.
Not safe.
That does make a lot of sense.
What were the warning signs at the very beginning, Josh?
On our third date, she told me, because she has lived out here five months before we started dating, and she told me that Previous to dating, previous to meeting me, I asked her what kind of relationship she was looking for and what kind of relationship she's had since she's been out here.
And she told me that up until that point, she's had casual relationships.
Like casual sexual relationships.
Are you still there?
Yeah.
But it sounded like it was at the same time.
It was not a one-guy thing.
It was...
Which, looking back, I know should be like I should have probably ran from that point.
Okay, so she was having sex with multiple guys at the same time?
Yeah.
Right.
you And do you know how many...
I don't know...
Do you know how many partners this was here?
I... I didn't ask.
I should have...
I mean, I should have just said, okay, interesting to meet you.
Goodbye.
But I didn't ask how many.
I, like, froze up, and I just...
I don't know.
I guess I just kind of played it off, which I'm really, really kicking myself for.
Right, right, right.
Okay.
So we've got the Truth About Sex presentation.
I don't know if you have...
Yeah, I've seen it.
Actually, in the last three weeks, I've been watching more of your videos, and I listened to the real-time relationships on audio and write a couple of your books, and honestly, I found a lot in there that was just like, Like you've said in one of your videos, just lightbulb moments.
And look, I hope you understand, Josh, that I wasn't any wiser at your age.
I wasn't born with this stuff.
This is all just hard-earned, bitterly earned wisdom.
So I hope you don't feel like there's nothing inferior, nothing wrong.
This knowledge has been kept from men and from women.
Yeah, no, I'm just trying to continue to learn so that I can find virtue quicker.
I can tell if, you know what I mean?
Right.
Now, what about the first or second date?
The first date was we just met for coffee.
You went for what?
We just met for coffee and talked for about an hour or two.
Alright, and in hindsight, what was that all about?
It was interesting.
She was upbeat.
She was interesting.
Good eye contact, physical body language cues.
Yes, but what did you talk about?
I don't remember.
I don't remember.
What do you mean?
It's only six months ago.
Have you been drinking a lot?
I haven't been drinking a lot, but I do brew beer.
Right.
But this was coffee, right?
This was coffee, yeah.
So, what do you mean you don't remember?
Mostly, I guess, just talking about...
I mean, I guess we were probably mostly talking about her.
All right, but what was she saying?
Honestly, Honestly, I don't remember because everything that has come after, my mind has been replaying all that over and over again so much.
Right.
Okay, so first you met for coffee, she talked about herself, but you have no idea what she said.
Yeah, I don't remember.
Okay, that's a warning sign.
Okay.
I mean, it's sperm for eggs.
Thank you.
That's what a date is.
Let me put it in very crass terms.
If you wanted to go and buy a car and you saw some ads or did some research and let's say you want a Honda, right?
And you go to the Honda dealership.
What are you going to talk about?
The car salesman is going to tell me about all the features and the benefits.
No, what are you going to talk about?
Oh.
I'm going to talk about what I want.
Thank you.
Thank you.
What?
Specifically, are you going to go in there and say, well, nice weather for this time of year.
I really like this football team.
What do you think of the situation in Iraq?
Right.
I'm going to say what I want in a car.
Here's what I want in a car.
Do you have this in a color I like?
Oh, wait.
That's racism towards cars.
But you know what I mean, right?
Yeah.
Now, a date is, should we make more people?
How do you feel about being a factory for us to make more people?
And I'm not saying that everyone you date, you have to marry and have kids with.
Although, statistically, you're going to do a lot better if that's the plan.
That is where I'm heading.
No, no, but hang on, hang on, let me finish.
But what I am saying is that the qualities that will go into a good relationship...
are the same as the qualities that would go into a good married person to have children with.
Right?
But a romantic relationship is about sex and sex is about children.
The reason sex feels good is so that there are more people.
The reason your penis makes you smile is so that you will help it make another penis.
Right?
You are a giant lever by which your little toe desperately tries to make another little toe.
And going on a date without trying to figure out the moral qualities and history of the person is like going to a car dealership to buy a car and only talking about birds.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, tell me, you know, what are you looking for in life?
Tell me a little bit about your family.
You know, tell me about your friends.
What do you do with them?
You know, it's not like you're crossing.
You're just trying to get to know the person.
Right.
You know, like if you want to go and see a movie, you don't spend half the movie driving around in the fucking parking lot.
You buy a ticket, you go in and see the damn movie, right?
Right.
It's the same thing with getting to know a person.
Why spin your wheels?
Life is short.
Find out what their values are.
I like raves and tattoos.
Well, isn't that interesting?
I don't know that's very compatible with whatever, right?
But ask the questions that matter.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I love my dad.
He beat me.
Okay, Mr.
Fifty Shades of Grey.
Miss Fifty Shades of Grey, I believe that I don't have enough time to unravel that perfect vacuum of anti-self-knowledge and therefore, right?
I'll be right back.
I'm not coming back.
Right.
Now, I mean, if all you want is casual sex, then, you know, get a blood sample.
Quick lab technician who's willing to expose himself to Ebola-like levels of STDs and off you go, right?
Wearing your hazmat suits and crossing your fingers.
Yeah, that's not what I want.
If you want a quality relationship, if you want something, look, I mean, don't you want something where you love the woman, the woman loves you and it lasts a lifetime?
I mean, there's nothing better than that.
Yeah, I mean, that's what I want.
Right.
And so, yeah, hey, tell me about your parents.
Oh, you know, well, they divorced when I was seven, but, you know, I kind of got that that was really brutal, so I got me some therapy, and here's what I figured out, and here's what I learned from their mistakes, and, you know, here's what I figured, you know.
Or, you know, well, they're together, and they've really taught me the secret of their success, and, you know, that's what I want from my life.
You know, just...
My parents divorced because they're free spirits.
Oh, great.
Well, there's the skywriting of tomorrow's disaster.
Death knell on our possible relationship.
I had a lot of casual sex with multiple guys at the same time.
So you have nothing to offer Except a swamp dump for random cum buckets.
Got it!
So you don't have any training or experience in a sustainable adult mature relationship.
So you're not healthy.
Want to speak Japanese?
Never learned it.
Okay.
Want to have a long-term healthy relationship?
Never had one.
Okay.
I can't be the one to teach you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
How pretty was she?
Probably six and a half or seven.
Yeah, but you've got to do the high-tech slider, right?
Yeah, I mean...
You know, like an LA 7 is a Kansas City 10, right?
So what's the slider, right?
Um...
I'm just...
I guess with her...
Come on!
Grade that curve, baby!
I guess when I first saw her and was first talking to her, I would have put her at an A... Alright, so 20% of the women in her environment are more physically attractive?
Yeah...
Probably.
All right.
And you, where would you put yourself at?
Probably seven or an eight.
Alright.
So was it just her intelligence that is the quality?
I mean, give me an understanding of...
Right?
So she's less attractive than you.
She was sleeping around with multiple guys.
You know, she's untrustworthy.
She lies.
She's...
Right?
I mean...
I mean, to give you an example...
What the hell?
Cars on fire.
Tell me why you're buying it.
I mean, to give you an example, like when we were dating, little stuff like...
I had mentioned that I like to bake bread, and like a week later, when I was at her house, she's like, oh yeah, I bought this book for you, a book with bread recipes.
And like, just little things like that.
You know, she'd stop in, she came into my work like a couple handfuls of times and would bring me like a coffee or would bring me...
Something to eat, like just randomly pop in and be like...
Are you kidding me?
She brought you a coffee?
Dude, oh man, you're going to listen back to this in a couple of years, and you're going to want to put your head through a wall.
Well, I mean, I guess it was just things that made me feel like she was thinking about me when I wasn't around.
Right.
So she has object constancy, which is good.
But listen, seriously, she brought you a coffee.
You gave her your heart.
It's true that you may have more biological diseases than your average 17th century Venetian rat, but there is a coffee here too.
So, right?
Yeah.
And, I don't know, I mean, I guess I was trying to analyze some other things too, like She showed what I thought was a high level of capacity for empathy by being so close with her pets and being so attentive to her pets' health needs.
How many pets does she have?
She had two dogs and a cat.
Don't give me her age, but is she a similar age to you or younger, older?
She's...
Five years younger than me.
And she's done volunteer work in third world countries and things like that, I was just like, wow!
I'm thinking it's because they pay for shots and antibiotics, but that's probably too cynical.
Josh, what about you?
Longest relationship you've had prior to this one?
About five years.
So you were in a five-year relationship?
Yeah, a long time ago.
Well, you're not that old.
Well, I'm almost 30.
Yeah, okay, well, I'm staring down the twin barrels of 50, but...
I know, I didn't mean to...
No, that's fine.
And what happened to your five-year relationship?
Um...
She went on vacation and got pregnant and then convinced me I was the father.
And then, you know, just a lot of stuff.
A lot of stuff happened.
Wait, she...
She fucked another guy on vacation and then tried to tell you it was your kid?
Yeah, and she also tried to say that he raped her.
But I... See, I have trouble because I could never know what to believe when things came out of her mouth by the end of the relationship.
With this last one, I have no bearing on what is believable.
Okay, hang on, hang on.
Oh god.
Dude.
Did you ever talk to your parents about these women?
Um...
Like, uh...
Sexual topics weren't really anything that...
No, no, no.
I didn't say this is, you know...
I like it on a pogo stick with a rhesus monkey.
What I'm saying is, did you talk to your mom, right?
I assume you have a mom that you're in contact with.
Yeah.
Okay.
Did you talk to your mom about this five-year-old girlfriend?
We'll call her Megan.
Okay.
Yeah.
To some degree.
Did she meet your family?
Yeah.
Yeah, many times.
And what did they think of her?
My mom likes to say that she has magical thinking.
Wait, she thinks Megan has magical thinking, or your mom has magical thinking?
No, my mom thinks that Megan had magical thinking, that she could magically make things make sense in her head.
Is your mom a psychologist?
That's kind of a technical term.
No, my mom's not a psychologist.
She's in the medical field, but she's not a psychologist.
Okay, okay.
Alright, alright.
Yeah, so magical thinking is, you know, wish hard enough.
I mean, whatever, right?
Yeah.
But that doesn't really say very much.
So your mom thought that your ex was crazy?
I guess that's another way of putting it.
Well, magical thinking is highly irrational that you don't know is irrational, right?
Yeah, yeah.
And how long did it take for your mom to figure out that Megan was kind of crazy?
I don't know.
I only remember her talking about that aspect, like her being crazy or making things up or believing things she made up until two or three years into the relationship.
So she had no idea that Megan was crazy until you'd been involved with her for two to three years.
Yeah, I guess.
I don't know.
I didn't really talk to my parents a whole lot until recently.
I mean, about serious things, emotional things.
I mean, I sort of feel this urge to say to parents, protect your damn children.
You know, there's raising your kids, you child-proof The home.
You know, child-proof the goddamn reproductive organs, too.
You know, put a gate at the top of the stairs and teach your son about crazy women and teach your daughter about crazy men.
Do something to protect your children.
Because your children are gonna have teenage hormones and they're going to be susceptible To lust.
And lust with love is a wonderful combination.
And lust with vice is spiritually suicidal.
I agree with that.
You know, everything is new to your children that's new to your children.
And When you teach your children about the woods, you teach them about bunnies and bears, right?
And dating is new for your children.
Yeah.
And you don't let your children have four tons of sugar a day, right?
Because it's bad for their...
And you don't...
That your sons have crazy pussy because it's bad for their heart, right?
Well, I wasn't...
I never really felt like I was taught how to date by my parents.
I get it.
I only remember a handful of times seeing my parents kiss.
I mean, they're still married to this day, but...
I mean, holding...
You know, a couple handfuls of times holding hands.
You don't learn about dating by watching your parents kiss.
No, I know, but that's just, like, it always felt like this uncomfortable whole area of life.
But this is not sex.
This is not the sex talk.
Right.
This is a date-safe talk.
Stranger danger, right?
Date safe.
Date safe.
I mean, I assume that your parents care about good people in the world and want more of them, in which case we should point our reproductive organs at virtue and, hey, guess what?
We get more virtue.
Whatever you subsidize, you get more of.
Whatever you tax, you get less of.
If you subsidize virtue with romance, you get more virtue.
And virtue is rewarded.
Right.
Good girls do.
That's how we should be approaching things.
Good girls do, but I only do good girls, right?
And I'm sorry.
And I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, Josh, that you didn't get any instruction in this area.
And it is terrible.
It is terrible the amount of wisdom that has been lost just in a generation or two about Suicide by sex organ.
About the degree to which your dick goes into a blender and your heart follows.
It's hard on the heart, right?
You feel jumpy.
You feel nervous.
The next girl, so to speak, you're waiting for the other high heels to drop, right?
Yeah.
What's the next problem I'm going to get?
What's the next crazy thing I'm going to have to deal with, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But your parents, I think, owed you a bit more instruction in the world of dating.
I don't know.
Maybe they never dated.
Maybe they're just high school sweeter.
I mean, but they know.
They read the paper, I'm sure.
They know there's crazy people out there, right?
Yeah.
And a woman who cries rape gets sex on holiday, makes you try to believe the child is yours.
How did you find out the child wasn't yours?
The timeline didn't really match up, and...
She had the other guy do a paternity test.
I kind of pushed for the paternity test because of the timeline.
Right.
Thank you.
Did she maintain the rape story?
As far as I know to this day, that's...
As far as I've known her, I haven't talked to her, looked, seen her, and...
Five years, probably.
Hell, I moved out of state.
Well, I mean, obviously she could have been raped, what do I know, right?
But it's pretty bad to say that the child is yours.
I've just learned that I can't...
What's that?
She had the...
Did she have the kid?
Yeah.
And...
Do you know if you have a press challenge?
No, I don't.
No, she didn't.
I mean, as bad as that relationship was, and even though I stayed a lot longer than I should have, I stayed until...
I helped kind of raise the baby and that made me realize that there is good in having kids and I could be a good father.
I just...
Yeah, you just need to find a good woman.
Yeah.
Right.
Have you ever thought of therapy?
I went to therapy...
Back with this first girlfriend that I had, we went to couples therapy briefly, and I went to therapy by myself for a while.
Mostly, they just reassured me that I wasn't crazy.
I mean, I was basically that she was not healthy to be with.
Yeah, that poor kid.
I mean, I worry about him.
I mean, I know that she's married now, so hopefully the guy is a decent guy.
Oh, dude.
I mean, I hate to break it to you, but the physics of relationships are pretty constant.
I know.
I mean, the idea that she would try to pass off a kid as yours that wasn't yours is so unbelievably disturbed.
I know.
I mean, it's shockingly common, but it's so unbelievably disturbed.
Did she ever apologize to you for that?
No, I think she really thought that...
I think she really made herself think that he was mine.
No, no, come on.
Come on, man.
Unless she's actually psychotic, she was, as she says, raped.
And the idea that she just didn't even think that that might be a factor in a possible paternity is so irrational that unless she's actually institutionalized, She tried to snag you.
And I don't know.
I mean, whether she was raped or not, obviously, we'll probably never know.
But that's heinous, right?
What she tried to do to you is one of the worst things that one human being can do to another human being is false paternity claim.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so if she's not gone through therapy, realize just what an unbelievably evil thing she did in trying to pass off the baby as yours, or saying that it was yours.
If she's not resolved that, if she's not grown a conscience and apologized for that, then it means she hasn't really outgrown the impulses that drove it, which means she's still kind of the same person.
And the likelihood of a good guy being with someone like that, I'm sorry to say, Not very good.
It's so close to zero that it's, to me at least, functionally zero.
And I know that.
I feel...
I mean, I don't feel like...
I feel horrible for him because...
The boy?
Yeah, the kid.
Because he's the smartest kid I've ever seen at that age.
I mean, just awesome.
Yeah, and of course...
If she wasn't raped and she tells him that he's the product of rape, that's another unbelievably heinous thing to do.
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, who knows, right?
That's the thing is I quit trying to figure out what was true about that part of my life and what wasn't.
Right.
And Did your current ex, your most recent ex, did she know anything about this history?
No, she...
When I told her that I had, you know, that I... If I have trouble trusting her, it's because...
I mean, obviously now it's apparent that it's because what she did was not deserving of trust, but also because from prior relationships...
And she basically said, well, you know, everybody has prior relationships and, you know, I don't let it affect my relationships that I go into.
And I'm just thinking...
Wait, wait, wait.
Oh my god.
This woman, who you claim is very intelligent, said that she just doesn't let prior relationships affect her current relationships.
Yeah.
She just wills it.
Like, oof!
I pulled the memory module out.
It's gone.
Yeah, she wasn't interested in hearing about my history.
Right.
Right.
Okay, and when was this delightful little interaction in the development of the relationship?
About talking about previous relationships?
Yeah, where she said, no, I just, nope.
I don't let any of my prior relationships affect my current relationship.
In fact, I have no idea how I'm able to speak English, because English came out of a prior relationship with my mother when I was growing up, so I don't even know how I'm able to speak this mysterious fogon language you call syllables.
That was the day that I confronted her about the overnight, or the...
The other guy thing.
Oh, so you had hidden your history from her?
No, well...
Don't bullshit me, man.
Come on, we've come too far down this road of honesty for you to stop bullshitting me now.
Well...
I mean, I had brought it up to her one other time.
Was it relevant?
Was it relevant when I brought it up the first time?
No.
Was your history...
With the five-year relationship, was that relevant to your current relationship?
In that I had trouble...
Were you going to have trust issues?
Yeah.
Because a woman had tried to pass off a baby as yours when it wasn't?
Yeah.
Okay, so that was relevant to the relationship, right?
Yeah, it was.
And I brought it up.
And did you keep that information that was highly relevant to the relationship from her?
No, I actually brought it up one other time, but I didn't bring it up.
I got kind of the same response.
You say you brought it up.
Did you say, oh yeah, and I was in a five-year relationship.
The woman went on vacation, came back pregnant, claimed she was raped, said the baby was mine.
Did you brought all that up?
No.
There was an issue in this last relationship where I was having trouble with something that she was doing.
And...
I was ready to end it with her.
I told her, I can't go down this road.
Word for word, I said, I can't go down this road again.
I know where it goes.
Wait, what was happening?
She had, like, the second week we were dating, she had a friend, a guy friend, who wrecked his motorcycle.
And she had to go help him Do whatever to get his bike back.
And he lived out of state.
She had to go help him get his bike back?
What is she, a giant magnet?
That's the thing.
I told her that this makes me uncomfortable.
Because I had put it together that he was one of the previous...
Casual partners.
I had figured that out, and I said, I'm not comfortable with this.
Wait, and when was this?
Like two or three weeks into dating.
So two or three weeks into dating, one of her exes needs her help, which I can't imagine what the hell that's all about, and she goes out of state to go, and how long was she away?
Like a day.
So she didn't spend any overnight time there?
No.
Alright, I guess you don't live in Alaska, but alright.
And so you said that that's not acceptable to you?
Yeah, I told her, you know, you go what you need to do, but I can't go through this kind of relationship again.
And she gave me a story.
So you bullshitted her?
Because you then did go through that kind of relationship again?
Yeah.
So you bluffed, right?
Yeah, I guess.
Well, what do you mean you guess?
Dude, don't fog out on me now.
You said, I'm not doing this, you can't go see this guy.
She goes to see it, and you're like, okay, I guess we're back on, right?
Yeah, that's what I did.
I mean, she said that she, one of the reasons why she had to go was to tell him in person that the Their relationship was not going to, you know, that it was over.
And I never really understood why she had...
Wait, wait, hang on, what?
Sorry, hang on, hang on, hang on.
So she started dating you, and a couple of weeks into dating you, she wanted to go and tell this other guy that the relationship was over.
With this other guy.
So, was she still in a relationship with him when she started dating you?
I don't think so, because when we first started dating, I said...
No, no, no.
Hang on, Josh.
Logically, she was.
Because if she has to go and tell him in person she's not dating him anymore or they're not in a relationship anymore, then she must have been in the relationship when you started dating.
And then she only went to tell him in person because his motorcycle ended up impounded.
Otherwise, she might not have.
And also, I thought that she just had casual relationships before you got together.
So why the hell does she need to go tell someone in another state in person that she's not dating someone she had a one-night stand with?
That's one thing that didn't make sense to me.
Well, so either...
She was involved in this guy seriously, in which case she was not just having casual affairs.
Or, there was no reason whatsoever to go, you know, hey, remember me from six months ago?
We had a one-night stand.
I don't remember your last name, but can you come to my state and help me get my motorcycle back, you giant magnet thing you?
Yes, I can.
Because I need to tell you in person, although we had a one-night stand six months ago, I feel the urge to tell you in person that I don't think our relationship's going to work out.
That's crazy.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
I was under the assumption that she was going primarily to help him get his medication for the injuries and get his bike out of impound or whatever.
And the secondary was to say, under my understanding, was that they couldn't continue being friends.
From what I understood, it was like a friends with benefits kind of Wait a minute.
If she couldn't continue being friends with a guy, what about the guy who came from out of state that provoked the breakup that was out with her on Friday night?
She's okay to have friends with him, right?
That's why I confronted her about it.
Because I had thought, we resolved this.
Like, you know how I felt.
I thought we resolved this.
Right.
And then she said, what, he's just a friend?
We never had benefits?
She said that, yeah, basically, that he's just a friend.
And that, you know, she said that she's never done anything to make me not trust her.
And I didn't.
Other than going to see the motorcycle guy.
Yeah.
And having a guy that she didn't tell you about go out with her the night before and have breakfast with her the next day.
Right.
Well, I mean, I think we've probably gone about as far as we can go in one conversation, but...
Yeah, well, I really...
Josh, I mean, this harsh stuff.
I mean, and I hope I'm not being unfriendly to you.
I'm really not, at least in my own mind.
And, you know, let me know if that's the case.
You know, I hugely sympathize.
And look, I grew up without any instruction.
I mean, you have the dating sense of some guy who was raised by a single mom.
And I was raised by a single mom, right?
Which means, you know, dysfunctional moms can't teach sons about dysfunctional women.
I mean, they can't, right?
Because how would they tell?
How would they know?
And why would they want to introduce functional women?
This is the conversation I had with the guy on the last show, right?
Dysfunctional moms...
Lend sons to be incredibly vulnerable to dysfunctional women.
And, I mean, I think that it might be worth having a conversation with your parents, like, good Lord, I mean, you pushed me out onto the African plain, rubbed in marinade, blindfolded, for God's sakes.
What the hell?
Did you not notice these women are crazy?
I mean, do you not know?
Who's watching my back here?
Since I've started learning about philosophy and self-knowledge, I've been having a lot more conversations with my mother about these things, which have been extremely positive to our relationship.
My father, though, is harder to talk to.
About emotional things.
It's almost...
I don't...
He doesn't...
That's not possible.
What about your friends?
Do you have friends who know crazy when they see it?
I only have one close friend out here, and he liked her, but I don't know that he can spot crazy or not.
I don't know if he can.
But ask him about his mom, right?
His mom was not any good.
Right.
And that doesn't mean that...
Look, if your mom is not any good, if your mom is dysfunctional and you're dealing with it or you've dealt with it, then you can spot crazy.
Yeah.
But if you haven't dealt with it, then your loyalty to your mom is going to camouflage the crazy women you're dating.
So, yeah, look, I'd really suggest...
You know, I'm...
I don't know.
I'm always hesitant to say listen to some Tom Likas because he's pretty coarse and rough.
But, you know, this may not be the end of the world.
I haven't listened to him in a long time, but it's not the end of the world to get some...
I don't know.
It may not be the end of the world.
He's got some skepticism around female virtue and deference, which in my mind goes too far, but may not be the end of the world to listen to.
But you're not there to serve women.
You're there to evaluate women, just as they should be there to evaluate you.
Compare women to virtue.
Compare women to standards.
And require self-knowledge.
Require self-knowledge from a woman before you give her your heart.
You wouldn't get into a plane with a woman who'd never flown before if she was the pilot, right?
No.
And if you don't know how to fly a plane called the self, you are going to crash harder than an impressed German pilot, right?
Yeah.
So have that standard, man.
And, you know, when people give you those early signs, they're not kidding.
Yeah, I know.
I know.
They're not kidding.
They're very serious.
Those early signs are not blips.
They're not little hiccups.
They're not minor bugs.
Those early signs are the physics of the future.
And it only gets worse from there.
You know, if somebody is disrespectful in a job interview, they're not going to be respectful when they actually have the job, right?
If somebody's a dick before they get tenure, they're not going to be dickless after they get tenure.
And the longer you're in a relationship, the more power your partner has over you.
You are giving people power over you.
You are giving people power over you.
And if they don't treat you well at the beginning, they sure as hell are not going to treat you better later when they have more power.
Because power tends to corrupt.
Not everyone.
Power doesn't corrupt the virtuous.
But you are giving people more and more power over you.
And if somebody cheats you at the beginning of a business relationship, they're not going to be better later on, but worse.
Right.
I really appreciate you talking.
I've followed you for a long time, and it's a great deal of help what you do.
Yeah, I wish I had some idea where your heart was.
It's like you had the same tone the whole conversation.
I don't know.
The more I've been thinking about things, the more I've been...
Pulling myself out of the relationship because the more I analyze it, the more...
I mean, when I first emailed Mike, I was depressed.
And the more I look at it, the more I'm just kind of like, why didn't I just...
After the first couple of days, just be like, well, it was nice to meet you.
Well, because that would have been a lie too, right?
Yeah, listen, I mean, you've certainly dodged some bullets there, Josh.
Luckily, so far, no kids.
Yeah.
No kids, hopefully no crotch rot.
I mean, you have dodged a bullet and you can get what you want.
You can get what you want.
Listen, I fail my own standards depressingly often.
So, you know, when I give people advice, I'm not doing it from on high.
I'm also reminding myself The world does not want us to have standards.
Crazy people don't want us to romantically avoid crazy people.
Crazy people want to hide in plain sight.
And so, there are so many crazy people out there now that It's like anything which messes with people's sexual value gets them very volatile, right?
So like I do shows about the dangers of dating a single mom.
Well, by the time you're a single mom, you're pretty much committed there for the next quite long time, right?
And when you point out that there are significant downsides, negatives, and dangers to dating a single mom, well, you're messing with the romantic value of single moms, right?
And there's a war on around sexual value.
You know, if when we put out presentations like The Truth About Sex, and we point out that promiscuity renders a woman extremely dangerous to marry, well, lots of women have already committed to that promiscuity, right?
Yeah.
And how do they feel about these facts getting out?
It lowers their sexual value.
Suddenly, ain't so many bids for those dented eggs, right?
Yeah.
Dented by penises, for those who don't follow the metaphor.
Right?
Yeah.
And so, when you mess with people's romantic value, they feel like you're keying their car, right?
Which they want to sell.
And it can't be fixed.
And That's the really important thing to recognize.
And I say this just because there's a tipping point.
Once dysfunctional people hit a certain proportion of society, society act, they create a massive special interest group to hide their diminished romantic value.
Right?
You can say...
The truth about single moms, when like in the white community in the 1960s, like 96% of kids were born into a marriage, right?
So there's this tiny group of single moms.
And you could say, oh yeah, you know, and they're not enough for there to be a huge cohort.
They're not enough to be a market for advertisers.
And they're not enough to be some group that politicians need to pander to.
So they don't have a special interest undertow working together.
To camouflage them and pretend that they're less dangerous than they are.
So now we live in a society, and just to speak about women, because that's, unfortunately or fortunately, I think unfortunately, it's where most of the data is.
People say, what about men who are promiscuous?
Hey, do the study, let us know, we'll publish that too.
I'm not trying to pick on women, it's just that's all the data there is that we've been able to find.
And even experts we've contacted have told us there's no other data that they know of.
But there's now so many women out there who are single moms who have been promiscuous, who have let their best egg years slide by in a huge waste of vanity-based penis-chasing.
There's such a huge cohort of these women now who've been lied to.
And I sympathize with these women.
I don't think they wake up and said, hey!
I know what I'm going to do.
I'm going to act completely against nature and view sexuality as a mere vanity-based personal plaything and end up, when I have the greatest value, squandering it on the least reliable and worst kind of man.
And then when I want a decent man, I'll be kind of used up, heartbroken, shattered, dysfunctional, and wrinkly.
Right?
Nobody's given the reality to these women.
And I'm not, you know, oh, well, I knew this stuff when I was 12 and so on.
Like, there was a lot that was withheld from me that I've had to learn through painful experience.
And it's this great relearning that men and women have to do about the reasons why there were the ancient standards that were upheld by religion.
You know, just because there's no God doesn't mean that the biological and romantic and emotional imperatives that were upheld through religion suddenly vanish as well, right?
Yeah, I mean, that's...
Because I don't believe that God didn't...
Just because I don't believe that God made life doesn't mean that there's no such thing as life anymore.
I'm sorry, Josh, you were saying...
Oh, I was just going to say that, yeah, I mean, that's something that I've had to learn, too.
I mean, because my parents were religious and I'm atheist, so I had to learn that there are values that they hold that are good in themselves and why they're good.
God was a means of transmitting values which can produce rational happiness.
And yeah, there's a baby in the bathwater thing, which definitely...
And we've also had this political correctness, and men and women are equal no matter what.
And I don't mean under the law, I just mean in every possible circumstance and so on.
Biologically, it doesn't make it...
I mean, if men and women are equal, let's have...
Male and female tennis players all compete for the same title, but that never happens.
So, there is a huge conspiracy.
It's not a conspiracy planned, it's just natural.
It's like if the price of gold is twice as high in one marketplace, there's not some big conspiracy to sell all the gold there, it's just what people do when there's the incentives in place.
And now, a combination of really bad thinking And false statistics and statism has produced a generation or two of some fairly wrecked women.
And I sympathize, I sympathize, I sympathize, I sympathize.
And I'm kind of pissed at their parents, to be honest.
Yeah.
And, you know, wrecked men too, but I'm talking to a man about dating, so let's talk about the women.
Women who've had their hearts broken too many times, women who have been passed around too many times, women who have, as the coarse phrase goes, written the cock carousel until they got dizzy, threw up and fell on the floor, and who have squandered the time and youth of their greatest sexual value on a succession of brutal, uncaring and unworthy men who clearly were unsuitable as husbands and fathers.
And by the time the clock ticks so loudly, they can't even hear their own heartbeat anymore.
Their prime has gone by, and all the decent men that they ignored are embittered.
And don't want it.
And are going MGTOW or Japanese style.
Yeah, I've been...
And it's...
Sorry, go ahead.
Oh, I was just going to say I've been looking at MGTOW videos, but I just feel like there are people that have given up.
I mean, yeah, the odds are not good, but I don't know.
Well, I think given social media, the argument that I would make to the MGTOWs is blaze so brightly in your virtue that good women can see you.
Because they're forgetting that you can blaze so brightly on the internet that the whole world can see you.
And so, blaze so brightly that, let's say that there is only one in a thousand great women out there.
I don't know what the odds are, right?
Yeah.
But...
Huntress don't just sit there with no bait, right?
I mean, they shine lights.
Isn't there a whole duck dynasty based upon it?
That's where the values of the world are.
Hey, here's a billion dollars.
Oh, philosophy?
No, no, not so much.
Right, so if good men and women are hard to find, shine brighter until they can't miss you, right?
You know, if it's dark out there, Get a flashlight, for God's sakes.
Shine brightly so that people can find you.
And then know how to judge.
So I think that they've sort of looked around their immediate social circle and said, well, I can't find any of these great women, and I'm sure women have done the same thing with their men too, and said, well, that's it.
I'm not going to date, right?
Well, I don't know.
And this is a stupid thing to say, and it probably means nothing, and it's just a vague impulse that I have.
It's like, great!
The smart and discerning people will stop breeding.
Oh, that's great.
Oh, fantastic.
Absolutely.
Because IQ is significantly heritable, so let's have all the smartest and most discerning people decide not to breed.
Oh, I can't wait for my daughter to get into that world.
I don't know.
We all benefit from people breeding before us.
Come on, pay it forward a little.
Throw a few pieces of DNA into the future mix.
It won't kill you.
But I think that if they knew how to really judge and find a great woman.
Then they would have an incentive.
You know, because, I mean, some of the MGTOW guys are like, well, I want to adopt a kid or, you know, have a contract with a surrogate and so on.
It's like, oh man, come on.
Find a good woman if you want to have, find a good woman and get married or find a good woman and get together or whatever, right?
Well, there aren't any good women out there.
It's like, there are.
There are.
There absolutely are.
But you have to shine bright and you have to be vulnerable and you have to be discerning.
And you have to not pretend the whole world is your mom.
Anyway, that's probably a topic for another time.
And I'm happily married because I get that the whole world is not my mom.
And...
I don't know.
Let me just give a minor quibble where people...
Just a minor thing that's bitchy where people say, Oh, that guy, that step, he's got mommy issues.
Like, that's my fault.
And first of all, if I had mommy issues, I wouldn't be happily married.
But anyway, it's like, a woman who's been raped, do we say, oh, she's just got rapist issues?
Like, it's somehow her fault.
She just carries around these issues.
We'd have...
I think we'd have some sympathy, wouldn't we?
Anyway.
So, yeah, I mean, find, you know, if you're an intelligent, sensitive guy, it sounds like you are, well, we need more of you as dads.
I mean, if people are that smart about what they call female nature, which I think is costing too wide a net, I mean, female nature, I mean, would we say black nature?
I think that'd be kind of racist, right?
I think the female nature, no.
I mean, there's women who have self-knowledge, there's women who are driven by advertising, just as there are men who have self-knowledge and men who are driven by advertising.
There are women out there who are smart and wise and sensible and loving and kind and loyal and will take you with great style, love, affection and warmth into your old age, but you have to Shine so bright they can find you.
Because you're on the internet doing shows if you're the MGTOW guys and they're not.
Anyway, and I have a great deal of affection and sympathy for the MGTOW guys as well.
So this is nothing negative.
It's nothing critical.
I just think that that level of self-knowledge, that level of knowledge about gender relations and so on, just think of how discerning their sons would be and their daughters, right, if they become dads.
Mm-hmm.
They would be able to help their kids avoid making the same mistakes that their parents let them fall into, which I think would be my encouragement.
And because I have won the heart of a great woman, I would like to share that with other people.
Not the great woman, but the...
You know the capacity.
And it's out there.
I mean, it could be hard to find, but keep doing the therapy, keep doing your self-knowledge, and come up with good standards about how to find a good woman.
And if you had a good woman, you don't need to fear the state if you have the right woman.
Anyway.
Yeah.
So, I hope that helps and I hope you'll keep us posted about how things go but I definitely would strongly suggest some therapy and be really discerning about your therapist.
You know, maybe get a male therapist and maybe get someone who understands something about sort of the men's rights stuff and all that and...
I don't know.
Maybe there's, I don't know, Voice for Men.
Maybe they have a therapist section of people who, you know, doesn't have to be in your town necessarily.
But I think that would be a good approach.
And I would really, really try and refrain from dating until you really got a handle.
I'd be meaning for a long time to put sort of a list together of, you know, Q&As for dating, questions and answers for dating.
And maybe I'll sort of move that up.
Would that be something that would be helpful for you?
Yeah, I mean, I've found everything pretty much that you've put out helpful.
I mean, you do awesome work.
All I'm getting from this is that you think it would be helpful if I put out.
That's what I got.
Okay, well, I'll sort of look into that and see.
We'll put that out as a canvas and see if people would be interested in that.
But I sort of mulled over quite a bit of a number of questions that I think would be really helpful and answers that I think would be pretty good warning signs.
But yeah, so you're part of a general phenomenon wherein dysfunctional people have actively, through government action and through Well, false academia and so on and false statistics.
There's a whole generation or two of men and in this case in particular women who've grown up and have now distorted the social fabric to the point where a lot of stuff that used to be commonly known is kept hidden and a lot of stuff is denied.
We just simply denied their knowledge because there's enough of a cohort that people become scared of them.
Ooh, they're going to say bad things or they're going to say mean things or whatever, right?
Well, you know, they say it's not your job to be your kid's friend.
You need to be their parent, right?
And it's not my job to be society's friend.
It's my job to do good to society.
And I don't know how doing good always feels good.
That just seems pure hedonism.
So the fact that I say things that upset people, it just means that I'm doing my job.
You know, like if you're a doctor, sometimes you have to give people bad news, and that's upsetting to them.
I mean, if they'd never told me I had cancer, I'd be dead by now.
So yeah, it was upsetting to be told I had cancer, and therefore I could get some treatment.
Yay!
And so the idea that somehow thinkers are not supposed to be upsetting to society at all is like, well, I could just watch you die in peace, or I could tell you you're sick, and here's how to get better.
In my opinion.
Anyway, don't take it too personally, although it is a personal struggle to achieve the wisdom that has been lost.
It's not your fault that all of this stuff has been hidden from you, just as it wasn't my fault that it was hidden from me.
But at any time prior to 1964, it would have been absolutely common knowledge that you would have nothing to do with this woman.
Yeah.
But that's all been obscured and hidden now, because there are enough of these women around that they're really distorting all social values.
But we just have to find our way back, right?
Without the restriction and racism and hyper-religiosity and so on, but...
Anyway, listen, I hope that helps.
Keep us posted if you can.
Yeah, I will.
I'm sorry for the people who are waiting for the other shows.
Sorry, go ahead.
Thank you.
No, I will.
Thank you for everything and talking.
I'll get out of the way for the other callers.
Oh, I'm afraid not.
It's almost 11?
It's past 11 now.
I'm sorry.
I mean, I keep meaning to have these shorter calls, but I mean, this stuff is so important, and I don't want to, you know...
I don't want to pull out before we're done, he said, slowly.
But no, I mean, these are important enough calls.
I don't want to sort of cut them short for the sake of the people I'm talking to, and also I think for the values that need to be explicated for other people.
And so I'm sorry if they go long.
I know we can do shorter shows sometimes, but...
I think you need to do them until they're done.
So I do apologize for the length of the call.
Sometimes I apologize for the people who have to wait.
I do try to get there when I can, but I usually have a good sense when there's some sort of completion that's happened that is useful for people.
So I do apologize for that, and I will try to...
It's Mike's fault.
There we go.
Okay, that's better.
Mike keeps scheduling these deep calls.
I'm sorry?
Oh, you're still on the line?
It's not Mike's fault.
It's someone else's fault.
And puppets.
Ghosts.
Casper!
Hillary Clinton.
It's her server.
It's all on her server.
I do appreciate everyone calling in.
I'll try and keep them as concise as I can.
Believe it or not, these are about as concise as I can.
Thanks everyone for calling in.
As always, freedomainradio.com slash donate to Help out the show and help spread the wisdom.
Help spread the virtue.
Help spread the better parenting, the better life.
