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Oct. 12, 2014 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

03:05:05

2819 The Legend of the NAWALT* - Saturday Call In Show October 11th, 2014

*Not All Women Are Like That. One of the most entertaining shows of the year. Includes: women using children as emotional tampons, the female desire for control, emotional pedophilia, favors from women is like money from the mafia, the irrational boner, beware the surreptitious promise upgrade, words you never want to hear, diversity is racist, unparenting concerns, MGTOW philosophy, being scared to be honest with women and efficiency in finding a quality relationship partner.

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	Good evening, everybody.
	Stefan Molyneux from Freedom Aid Radio.
	By God, I hope you're doing most well, and we are going straight on to the callers.
	Nothing massively new and exciting to report, other than thanks, gnome, gnome, gnome, chomsky, chomsky, chomsky, for a very great chat yesterday, which we'll be getting up soon.
	And as always, oh, please, shekels, rain down your pennies upon our benighted foreheads.
	FDRURL.com slash donate.
	Help spread philosophy.
	It is the last best, and I would argue only hope, of mankind.
	So, Mike...
	Alright, Mr.
	Irwin wrote in and said, I used to have a lot of friends with whom I could talk to and hang out with, but now I feel I am alone.
	I miss having someone to spend time and happiness with, although in the past it was pretty superficial.
	What can I do more in my current situation to find quality people to spend the rest of my life with?
	Hi, Steph.
	Hi, do you want to shake out that tree of woe a little more and see what hits the ground?
	Yeah, maybe I should tell you more about my situation right now.
	Upon this past five years I've been spending here in Canada, you know all the culture shock and new view and the environment is all new.
	And as somebody who lived outside Canada, everything's kind of funky.
	And my mind is ready for adaptation, unconsciously.
	Sometime this year, I started doing therapy.
	Long story short, the reason why I'm going into therapy is that I'm either...
	Because I'm alone, right?
	I don't have too many friends whom I can talk to genuinely.
	Although I do talk to most people, genuinely, they kind of recoil.
	It's kind of frustrating.
	Either it's me or them.
	But going for a therapy, I wanted to kind of validate whether I'm the one who's crazy or the others are.
	Sorry.
	No, that's fine.
	So you're...
	Not getting along with people in your sort of pre-philosophical life.
	And you want to know whether...
	No, so the people you had before you had philosophy, you're not getting along with now.
	Now, yes.
	But back then, we were kind of happy and dandy.
	Because back then I was kind of like this happy looking, what do you call it?
	Charismatic guy.
	And too much, I think, one of my friends back then, friends.
	Yeah, you were sort of a giddy vacuum of entertaining conformity, right?
	Yep, yeah.
	Yeah, so you didn't have enough of an identity to have any fundamental disagreements with anyone, right?
	Yep.
	If you don't think for yourself, it's pretty easy to go with the flow, right?
	Yeah.
	It's really easy to go with the flow and making flows yourself because you're the charismatic guy.
	I was a president in college high school because I'm one of those class clowns because I had the balls to speak to pretty much all the teachers and all throughout my elementary through high school even through college I had a natural tendency to attract people because I have the balls to call the professor out on their bullshit.
	And right now, I think last time we talked, I was trying to ask you things to why I should and should not go to college and pursue psychology.
	And this past year, I've been to a college here in Victoria.
	I spent a year and I didn't like it.
	First two courses in my class, Philosophy, I tried to argue with a professor who is an anarchist and a determinist at the same time.
	Who's a what and a determinist?
	An anarchist and a determinist.
	Okay.
	Right.
	So there shall be no rulers but physics.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	That's just one of the professors.
	The most annoying one is the politics teacher.
	Yeah.
	Who tries to be super political about everything.
	And one of the students suggested, because he was asking questions, right?
	And one of the top students said that the reason why we need government is because people are evil.
	And I had the balls to pause the class and tell everyone, you know, if you think that everyone's evil, human nature is evil, then why would you want this group of people to, you know, this kind of thing and the then why would you want this group of people to, you know, Yeah.
	If evil people exist, then a government is going to, that's where they're going to go, right?
	They're going to go to the government because that's pretty evil, right?
	Yeah.
	Evil exists, so let's subsidize it with near-infinite power.
	Yeah!
	That should solve the problem.
	And I kid you not to how the people, the students in the class reacted and how they looked at me in the eye.
	I felt kind of, uh-huh.
	I can't understand what these people are like that.
	So me having the balls to set up in the class.
	You seem to be quite interested in your balls.
	You do.
	You've mentioned your balls like six or seven times now.
	Is there something else you'd like to discuss that would be sort of more spherical and sort of like Gulabjaman with hairs on it?
	Yep.
	Here's the thing.
	Post-philosophy, post-philosophical knowledge and everything, compared to the other colors, I'm the type of person who can be myself and be outspoken, be myself, ask pretty much everything out of curiosity and humility to the other person I try to communicate.
	And most of them either recoil, neglect me, or try to keep me, but still keep their But still keep their superficial interactions.
	And so the question is...
	I'm sorry, keep their what?
	Pardon me?
	Either they keep me and still keep their superficial...
	Because I do try to connect, and I do connect.
	And the connection is...
	Happening in both ways, like the person I'm connecting to and I'm connecting to them.
	But asking about...
	I don't really ask about their childhood immediately.
	It just comes along the way, the conversation, through curiosity, scratch reasoning, pointing out inconsistencies here and there.
	And the more humble they are, the more I... The more it's easier for me to connect because I can reciprocate the humility.
	Because most people that surround me aren't philosophical.
	So the question is, do I have to wait till I'm mid-30s or late 30s in order to find a quality woman, a partner, or at least a person who can admire me for my meanness and my virtuousness?
	Because even I, who spent at least three years trying to figure out the meaning of life, At least my life.
	And having goals here and there.
	Do I have to wait till I'm mid-30s or at least around the 40s, be older, in order for me to actually find a quality person to spend the rest of my life with?
	So your question is, do you have to wait for a long time to find love?
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, how could I know that?
	That's up to you.
	You're asking me, are you a determinist here, saying, well, I have to be aged like wine in order to be palatable?
	Maybe the frustration comes to my patience, I think.
	What do you mean, patience?
	These are all passive words that you're using.
	How long do I have to wait?
	Am I crazy?
	Am I patient?
	It's all passive.
	I don't quite understand.
	I mean, you...
	Are you standing there waiting?
	How long is it going to take before the wind assembles a Ferrari around my ass?
	Oh, no, no.
	I just left my...
	I used to have three jobs.
	I left my one other job and left my other job.
	So I have one job right now.
	So I have free time on the weekend.
	Ever since I emailed Mike last June, July...
	I've been interacting with people twice as much, even more, before I left my other two jobs.
	It's not like I'm waiting.
	I'm looking for people.
	I'm sorry.
	I've done a lot of listening now.
	Now I need to do a little bit of talking.
	Tell me your history with having conversations from early childhood onwards.
	Was yours the kind of family that chatted around?
	The dinner table, did you have lots of conversations with your parents or siblings or other adults around at home?
	Yeah.
	When I was a child, I have three sisters, two who are...
	Oh, my God.
	Oh, my God.
	You've got to get more concise.
	I didn't ask you how many siblings.
	I asked you about your...
	This is kind of like, yes, no.
	Okay?
	I mean, you...
	I'm trying to help you meet a quality person here, and this means be a little bit more concise and listen to the actual questions being asked of you, okay?
	Okay.
	So, did you have a lot of experience having conversations when you were growing up as a child?
	Let's start with the dinner table, I guess.
	Okay.
	Dinner table, when I was a child, we all used to eat in one huge round table.
	And more like a conversation of what to do on the weekend, here and there.
	So no.
	Nope.
	Yeah, see how I helped you out with that?
	No, no, seriously, this is important.
	Yeah.
	Right, did you see how I helped you out with that?
	No, we just, we didn't really talk about anything at the dinner table, is that right?
	Nope, nothing, any of substance.
	Okay, so you don't have experience having conversations of substance, right?
	Yeah.
	Because you're like monologue guy.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I'm not being critical.
	I'm just trying to sort of identify a trend that I've noticed, right?
	Yeah.
	Like, you just start talking.
	You don't sort of dip in to find out how I'm receiving it or whether I'm following or you just, right?
	It's a hose, right?
	It's not a tennis game.
	Yeah.
	And again, I'm not being critical.
	I'm just pointing out, right?
	Because if you want a woman of quality and you're a monologue guy, you're like quality repeller.
	Because a woman of quality is going to want to feel hurt, and she's going to want to feel that she's participating in the conversation, right?
	Did you feel that for the first 10 minutes we were chatting that I was participating in the conversation?
	No, you were kind of silent.
	But I did try to ask you if you were still there when you dropped out a bit.
	Yeah, so you kind of want to justify that, right?
	Yeah.
	Like, you want to defend what you're doing and not be a monologue guy, at least in our conversation.
	You want to tell me that you did ask me if I was there when I dropped, right?
	Yeah.
	Do you think that's very productive?
	Nope.
	Yeah.
	Because, look, I'm not trying to define you as this is the only thing you do.
	I'm just trying to help you as much as possible get to quality relationships as quickly as possible, which I think means being kind of blunt, right?
	At least, you know, people don't come to me to beat around the bush.
	No.
	So...
	You don't have a lot of experience with back and forth in deep conversations?
	If there was, no, no.
	If there was, it would be just like a glimpse.
	What do you mean if there was?
	If there was, it would be somewhat a short conversation, like a short...
	Mind if I tell you one situation that I shared through my therapist?
	How am I supposed to know if I'm mined or not?
	It's your choice to make.
	One thing I told my therapist is that when I was a child, I argued a lot with my sisters for the television.
	And I cried one time because I was super pissed off because I couldn't get my TV. No, it wasn't my sister, it was my father.
	Sister happens all the time, but it was my father.
	And my mom tried to comfort me because I was pissed off at my father.
	And at that time, my father is not uber-religious compared to what he is right now.
	So I got pissed off at him, cried a lot, and my mom comforted me.
	And what she told me is that...
	Because I resented my father.
	I didn't like him in that moment because he was super selfish.
	And what I told my therapist is that my mom comforted me, telling me that she told me when I was a child that she didn't like my father.
	And I knew that.
	I saw that immediately.
	And she told me that she would still pick me.
	Because I was trying to tell her that why am I born in this world or something like that when I was a child.
	And I was crying a lot.
	Wait, wait.
	Sorry, what happened to the TV story?
	I wanted a TV show and my father...
	No, but sorry, but you...
	Okay, so we went from TV show, which I didn't know what happened.
	Your mother tried to comfort you.
	She said she liked you more than your father.
	And then are we talking about another conversation now where, as a child, you are wondering why you're born?
	Yes, because I hated my father in that moment.
	Wait, so you didn't hate your father in general, but you hated him in that moment in the conflict over the TV? I still do hate him now.
	And the hate...
	Slowly he rose up to the point that I won't care enough if he tries to contact me or try to...
	Okay, but sorry, and I'm trying to understand because you said this was a story about your father and the TV. Yeah.
	And I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings about your father.
	I'm just trying to understand what the TV has to do with it.
	Because there was just one television and I wanted to watch a TV show.
	No, no, I understand that.
	I understand that.
	And your dad overrode you, and you got upset, and your mother comforted you.
	Yeah.
	And is that the story?
	No.
	So what's the end of that story?
	I asked my mom why she chose my father.
	She told me that she made a mistake.
	But after that, along the way, she told me that She would rather have me for some reason.
	But in that moment...
	You mean she'd rather...
	Wait, I don't know what that means.
	That that is all the way from sinister Freudianism to your company.
	Or your birth.
	Does she mean she didn't want to marry you?
	She made a mistake marrying your father, but she's happy to have you.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay.
	And how old were you at this time?
	Around five or six.
	Your mother told you when you were five or six...
	That she didn't like your father and regretted marrying him?
	Yeah.
	Oh, God.
	Does that strike you as wrong at all?
	What do you mean by wrong?
	Do you think it's appropriate to say that to a five or six year old little boy?
	I don't think so.
	But she was honest.
	Honest?
	Although contradictory.
	I mean, what the hell does honesty have to do with anything?
	I didn't say dishonest.
	I said, is it appropriate?
	Look, if your children say, where do babies come from, and they're like five years old, do you show them a birthing video?
	No.
	You really don't.
	You really don't, because that is traumatic as hell for children, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, that's appropriate levels of honesty, right?
	When I was sick last year, I didn't tell my daughter everything that was going on.
	Right?
	Because she's four.
	And making confidants out of their little soldiers is what parasitical women do continually.
	You're not a marriage counselor to your mom.
	You're a little boy.
	What the fuck is she doing telling you stuff like that?
	Mind if I add something?
	No, I actually really do mind if you add something.
	Upon growing up?
	No, because that's another monologue.
	I'm trying to have a conversation with you, and if you add something, we're back to you having a monologue.
	So what do you think of what I've said?
	I think you were accurate.
	That's the thing that my therapist didn't tell me.
	Instead, he told me that that's my mom telling me that she loves me.
	Okay, this is just for the ladies out there, and I'm sure men do it too, but this is for the ladies out there.
	Stop using your children as your emotional tampons.
	Stop doing it.
	Stop talking to them about adult issues.
	Stop talking to them about your regrets.
	Stop talking to them about your sex life.
	Stop talking to them about your dreams and hopes and everything like that.
	They are five-year-old children.
	They're trapped.
	They're helpless.
	And they just want to do something other than listen to your problems.
	I just really want to tell that to women.
	Your children are not your sounding boards.
	They're not your friends.
	They're not your coven.
	They're not your book club.
	Particularly the little boys.
	Don't use children as the sounding board or vomit board of your adult emotional issues.
	That is absolutely, completely and totally wrong.
	It's exploitive.
	It's abusive.
	It's destructive.
	Go get a friend.
	Go get a therapist.
	Go talk to your siblings.
	Talk to your parents.
	Talk to your husband.
	Do not bring your adult emotional shit It's wrong, isn't it?
	I mean, how the hell did you feel about that?
	Your mom saying, well, I don't want to marry your dad, but hey, I'm glad he banked me up with you.
	I actually told her once.
	No, twice.
	Before philosophy and after philosophy.
	And I told her that I'm not your boyfriend.
	Or I'm not your husband.
	Something like that.
	And post philosophy, I have more balls to tell her that.
	She tries to control even the shirt I want to wear.
	And whether it looks good on me or not.
	Oh yeah, no, controlling others, particularly children, is a wonderful way of pretending you have a life.
	And I think if women could take, particularly moms, could take the energy that they pour into controlling their children and actually doing some good to the world, we'd have paradise by approximately next Thursday afternoon.
	But there's something in people these days, maybe it's always been the case, and maybe...
	Seems to be a little bit more women than men, maybe.
	That's just my experience.
	I haven't done the research.
	But there's something in women, I think, that genuinely believes that if they're controlling someone, they're achieving something.
	That if they're making someone else do something, if they're manipulating or bullying or controlling or exhorting or arousing, if they're controlling someone else, they're getting something done.
	You know, if I go and convince an engineer to change his pants, I'm not building a fucking bridge.
	Controlling other people is no substitute for getting anything done in this world.
	And this happens with moms to kids, moms to husbands, moms to other women.
	Happens to men too, but you're just talking about a woman here.
	Controlling other people is not the same as getting something done in this life.
	It is a pitiful, vampiric substitute for any kind of genuine achievement.
	Particularly when you do it to kids.
	Because the kids are not in a free market.
	You are Stalin to your children.
	We hopefully are going to be benevolent dictators, but the dictatorship, we cannot escape.
	That is the biological reality of dependent children.
	And controlling others is the exact opposite of achieving something.
	It depresses the human spirit.
	It enervates human opportunity.
	It creates fearful and aggressive compromise.
	It creates pointless rebels.
	It creates hysterical anti-authoritarianism.
	And it is an infection.
	You try to control your children.
	Your children grow up trying to control you.
	And then your children grow up and try and control other people.
	This control of other human beings.
	Feel anxious.
	Must control.
	Feel anxious.
	Must control.
	Feeling empty?
	Must control.
	Bereft without ambition?
	Must control!
	Got nothing going on in my life?
	Haven't really done much?
	Nobody really loves me?
	Must control.
	And the hit?
	It must be some sort of dopamine hit or something.
	When a woman controls someone, she must get a dopamine hit of some kind.
	Because it just seems to be such an addiction.
	Oh, the doctor said, you have high blood pressure, you better switch to fish instead of red meat.
	Oh, I don't like that you ordered that.
	Can you change your pants?
	I think you really need a haircut.
	Those shoes don't match.
	Can you clean out the basement?
	Can you do this?
	Can you do that?
	You know, the honeydew list and...
	These tiny little pecking birds of inconsequential alterations that fly out of women's mouths, infest and bewilder the planet as a whole.
	The retraction of controlling others is essential to the free...
	Growing of human spirits and the positive impact people can have on the lives of the world.
	So they're not focused on trying to avoid control or control the controllers.
	They can actually go out and get some shit done.
	Get some things done in this life.
	Now, I don't know if I'm describing your mom to a T. I just wanted to sort of mention that.
	Avoid the dopamine hit of controlling other people, particularly children.
	When a woman confides in her son, All she's confessing is that nobody wants to be her friend.
	Because if she had a friend, why the hell would she be talking to a five-year-old about this stuff?
	If she had an adult friend who actually wanted to spend time with her.
	I'm guessing your mom wasn't overburdened by friendships.
	No, she is a member of a religious group.
	A Catholic women's league.
	So she's got lots of friends.
	Lots of friends who I know while growing up, almost all of them talks to her to seek for advice.
	Well, why wouldn't she talk to her friends about the difficulties in her marriage then?
	She does.
	Not to a priest, but to her friends.
	Because almost all of them, I don't know, I think I overheard some conversations where they complained about Their marriage as well.
	Right.
	She even calls...
	Now, no, go ahead.
	When you said that she's manipulating, that's true, I agree.
	But, and, not but, and, she even calls my dad Saddam, Saddam Hussein, because my dad is kind of authoritarian but kind of childish.
	Can be easily manipulated and can manipulate without achieving anything.
	I grew up hearing them, waking up hearing them shout at each other most of the time.
	And she didn't get divorced because she's Catholic, right?
	She did.
	An annulment.
	She got an annulment?
	With children?
	That's the term in the Philippines.
	How the hell do you get an annulment if you already have children?
	You've already had carnal knowledge.
	I know it's weird, but that's the divorce equivalent in the Philippines to separation.
	Wait, but annulment is a religious term, right?
	It means that the marriage never existed in the first place, and usually it's because the marriage was never consummated.
	Like, if you marry a guy who turns out to be gay, then you can get an annulment because you've not had sex, right?
	Yeah.
	I don't know, but they're separated now, last year.
	Three years ago.
	Oh, three years ago they separated.
	So they made it all the way through your childhood.
	And then was it when the last kid grew up that they separated?
	Oh, I was the last kid.
	I was already here in Canada when they separated.
	So after the last kid leaves, your mom decides to get a divorce?
	Yeah.
	Was it your mom who initiated it?
	Yeah.
	And you know why that is, right?
	Yep.
	Why?
	Even when I was growing up, even when I was in college, and even after graduating, I told her to separate with him.
	No, no, no, no.
	Why did it happen after the last child left home?
	Because we were not there.
	She was unhappy the whole time, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay, so why did it happen when the last child left home?
	Because...
	Here's what I know to what her reason is.
	It's because we're already out of her life and my father's life.
	There's kind of like this cultural virtue that's implicated in the Philippines, where the parents have to stick to each other until their children is independent.
	And that's pretty much what's been taught by culture.
	And I think that's the reason why she believes it's needed for her to divorce my father.
	All right.
	And what do you think?
	I mean, you would rather have divorced before, right?
	Yep.
	Even when I was still in elementary.
	Okay.
	So, I don't know.
	I mean, you can't speak for your sisters, but you would much rather have your mother divorce.
	Right?
	I'm sorry?
	The money.
	The money.
	Exactly.
	Yeah.
	Exactly.
	Because, you know, the damage it does to the children, to have these two people at each other's throats and all that, the damage it does to the children, eh.
	But was your dad the breadwinner?
	My dad...
	The moneymaker.
	...inherited money.
	He didn't really work in the profession that he got from college.
	He just inherited money.
	And was he rich?
	Not even rich.
	He just inherited money.
	But he didn't have to work, so he inherited enough money to not work.
	Enough money, yeah.
	So, pretty wealthy, right?
	I mean, if you inherit enough money to not have to work, that's all, right?
	To last for a lifetime, yeah.
	So, he was pretty rich, right?
	I'm not saying he was a billionaire, but he had enough money to not work and raise at least three kids that I know of for 20 years, right?
	Yeah.
	And my mom admitted that.
	I'm sorry?
	My mother admitted that when I was a kid.
	That he married my dad because he can raise a family.
	Financially.
	Not really.
	She married her dad because he had money.
	She raised her children, doing all kinds of damage with a bad relationship to her children.
	And then when it was just her and him and she didn't need as much money, then she can divorce him, right?
	Yeah.
	And also he's still there to help with raising the kids and this and that, right?
	So then when the negative aspects of the marriage really just fall upon her rather than having the kids as a shield and a need, then she's out of there, right?
	Yeah.
	And my sisters are still supporting her, giving her money, here and there.
	Did she not get any money from your dad during the divorce?
	She did, yeah.
	Oh, but she now just wants more money, and I don't imagine she's had a big career or anything, right?
	No, she's not asking for money, and she didn't get any money from my father.
	She just wants to separate to him.
	Why wouldn't she ask for money from your father?
	I don't quite understand.
	No, she didn't.
	Even when I was growing up, I know...
	Well, hang on.
	Wait, does she have a job now?
	Nope.
	She's living off...
	Because on my mother's side, she did inherit apartments so she could have passive income.
	Oh, so your mom inherited apartments?
	Yeah.
	After what?
	After she divorced your dad?
	Nope, nope.
	Even while they're still in their marriage.
	Oh, okay.
	So she's got...
	Income from other people and he's got income from other people because he inherited and she inherited, right?
	Yeah.
	Alright, so they're basically just consuming all that value and not adding anymore and kind of parasitical upon the labors of people on the past, right?
	Both of them, it sounds like.
	Yeah.
	I even asked my mom why she didn't work.
	She said she'd rather stay home with her children than work.
	Alright.
	But most of the time she's chatting on the phone with her Catholic friends.
	Oh yeah, no, I mean, I get that.
	I don't know too many women who stayed home with their kids who actually parented for any significant portion of the day.
	Go play, kids!
	Mommy's got some phone calls to make.
	Okay, so...
	Sorry, go ahead.
	And after getting a personal computer, I've had my own interest in entertaining myself with computer games.
	So there's less time for me to spend with my mom.
	Oh, you mean when you were still living at home?
	Yeah.
	Right, right, right.
	Well, listen, I mean, I'm sorry that you had this kind of template.
	That's pretty crappy.
	This kind of template of what women are like and so on.
	Would you say that your mother was a hardworking woman?
	Nope.
	Nope.
	Yeah.
	You know, I'll tell you this.
	I'll tell you this.
	I'll tell you this.
	Because there's something about modern women that to me was really surprising.
	I don't know if it's because feminists have just been hammering it into women's ears for approximately three trillion years.
	Oh, you're exploited.
	Oh, men take advantage of you.
	Oh, there's a patriarchy.
	Oh, you do so much work and you get paid so little.
	They've created this just enormous cadre of incredibly lazy women.
	And I sort of compare this.
	This is going to be a completely subjective rant.
	So toss it out if it doesn't fit your opinion and experience.
	And I say this because my wife is one of the hardest working people I know.
	I mean, I work pretty hard.
	250 shows out in a year, I got cancer.
	I work pretty hard.
	My wife works really hard.
	And one of the main reasons I married her is I really respect and admire how much effort she puts into everything she does and how hard she works.
	And do you know, I can tell you this, before I met my wife, before I met my wife, I had never met a woman who worked hard in personal relations.
	I had never met, I mean, I met some women who worked hard sort of in business and so on, right?
	But I had never really met a hardworking woman, especially in personal relations.
	Like, I was living with this woman when I was an entrepreneur.
	I was living with this woman.
	And as an entrepreneur, I'm working like 12-hour days, 14-hour days, 16-hour days, one day, well, like one month, I worked three...
	I was up for two nights straight, didn't get to sleep for three days.
	And I was paying all the bills.
	And I come home, and she's like, I left the dishes for you to do.
	I'm like, I'm sorry, what now?
	She's like, I left the dishes for you to do.
	I'm like, were you...
	Were you really busy today, honey?
	Really busy?
	Did you send out some resumes?
	Did you make a couple of phone calls?
	Surf the net.
	Because me, I've been working about 13 hours straight and paying all the bills.
	And you're telling me?
	I got some dishes to do.
	I literally couldn't believe it.
	I mean, because if somebody was paying my bills...
	I wouldn't leave them any dishes to do.
	I wouldn't have...
	I wouldn't...
	I don't have, as you say, the balls.
	I don't have the balls to do that.
	A woman's working 12, 13 hours a day, paying all the bills, comes home.
	I'm like, here's a foot rub.
	I've got a scotch for you, honey.
	I learned foreplay.
	I've been studying it all day.
	How could you possibly do that?
	I don't want to talk about an isolated incident just as a whole.
	She's like, we have to share the housework 50-50.
	Are you kidding me?
	Are we sharing the bills 50-50 here, darling?
	Oh my god.
	It's only fair.
	And it's because, I don't know, she just heard so much, I guess, you know.
	Men will just take advantage of you.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I'm absolutely paying all the bills.
	I'm an exploiting madman.
	I'm pretty much Ming the Merciless over here with my Fu Manchu mustache and Pope Pius IX billionth tea-cozy headpiece.
	It's like, I didn't want to do any work.
	Grudgingly pushed the broom around a little bit here and there.
	Lazy women.
	Lazy women.
	Entitled women.
	And I'm like, hey, you know, hey, I mean, if you pay half the bills, you know, go get a job, go work 13 hours a day, contribute, fantastic.
	But, you know, hey, ladies, I hate to shock you, if you're taking a man's money, do some housework.
	I mean, I can't even believe this needs to be said.
	Do you know, like, I mean, I come from Ireland originally, right?
	Now, in Irish women, oh my god.
	I mean, when they're not tying up hooves and wrestling pigs to the ground and sewing the back 40 and dropping kids like H-bombs, I mean, holy crap.
	I mean, this is some hard-working women.
	Okay, true, they're a meter across the hips and you put them out in full sunlight, they burst into flames and they have more freckles than Kobo the Monkey's paint-spattered modern art experiments, but...
	Damn, they're hard workers.
	And this is sort of like my, you know, history.
	Hard-working women.
	Women who can pluck a chicken and do something else that rhymes with, what, chicken?
	Something like that.
	Hard-working, earthy, like salt of the earth, hard-working women.
	They do charity, they...
	They run communities.
	They bake food for sick people.
	They get up in the morning, they work, and they work, and they raise kids, and they keep a great house, and they cook.
	I'm just talking about old school, right?
	I'm not talking like, yeah, go great, have a career, fantastic, right?
	Fantastic.
	But hard-working women.
	This is sort of my family history.
	Hard-working women.
	Now, on my mom's side, they're all a bunch of frou-frou intellectuals for the most part, a bunch of poets and writers and shit like that.
	So I can't really speak to that.
	I don't really know much of my mom's side of the family.
	But for me, it's like, hard-working women!
	Salt of the earth!
	Have to turn sideways to get through a single-sized door, but damn!
	Hard-working women!
	And then when I sort of started dating and so on, I feel like I'm with a bunch of Victorian, too-tight bodice, fainting bunch of aristocrats!
	I can't touch hot water, that's for the downstairs people!
	I mean, a bunch of, like, brittle-boned, Kate Moss in a windstorm, neurasthenics, hysterics!
	Just can't get any work done!
	Ask him to get off the couch, ask him to get to anything!
	Hey, could you make me a sandwich?
	Feminism!
	Oh, okay.
	I got it.
	So it's not patriarchal when I pay the bills, but it's somehow patriarchal when I ask you for a sandwich, right?
	And the funny thing is, like, I'm happy to work, you know?
	It's funny because girlfriends ask me to make them a sandwich.
	Yeah, I'll go make you a sandwich.
	I'm happy to.
	Make you ten sandwiches.
	Hey, do you mind getting off the couch and get me a sandwich?
	Patriarchy!
	Oh.
	Oh, I think I see how this works.
	So patriarchy means I'm lazy.
	Because any time a man asks me to do something, I get to say patriarchy.
	That is a great gig.
	Because you know what that means?
	It means patriarchy isn't even real enough to not be an obvious excuse.
	Make me a sandwich.
	I've told this story before, but just, you know, for new listeners.
	I met my wife.
	My future wife, right?
	And we...
	Like, second date, we just spent every day together.
	We got married in 11 months, and 11 years later, like, couldn't be better.
	So, I had a pair of...
	I'm a cheap bastard.
	I mean, I just...
	I am a cheap bastard.
	Prying money out of myself is like, I don't know, taking a gold tooth from a dead chomping skeleton that's reanimated.
	And so, yeah, I got a pair of...
	Sandals are going to repair.
	They're going to repair down in the shoe shop.
	Because, you know, new sandals are like $20, but repairing them is like $8.
	So, well, you do the math.
	It's good.
	Plus, my future wife was heading downtown.
	She says, oh, and I mentioned this.
	She's like, oh, I'll pick them up for you.
	I'm like, hey, what's the catch?
	What do you mean you'll pick them up for me?
	I'm on full-on beaten up with the patriarchy for 15 years paranoia alert.
	Like, what do you mean you'll do me a favor?
	Are you going to spermjack me?
	What's going to happen?
	Are you going to spit in my shoes?
	How am I going to pay for this, quote, favor?
	I said, what do you mean you're going to go and pick them up for me?
	And she's like, I'm downtown.
	You're writing a book?
	I'll pick it up for you.
	I'm like, okay.
	That's...
	Nice?
	I didn't even know the word.
	That's helpful?
	Nice?
	Not estrogen-based parasite-y?
	And do you know what she did?
	It's the most amazing thing.
	She actually went to the shoe store.
	I gave her the money.
	She picked up the sandals.
	She brought them to me.
	There was no spit in them.
	She gave them to me and wasn't annoyed later.
	And she just went and, like, holy shit.
	I couldn't believe it.
	Couldn't fucking believe it.
	Seriously, this is how pitiful I was.
	This is how pitiful.
	This is what I'd been reduced to.
	You got me sandals.
	Let's get married.
	You're so nice.
	You're so helpful.
	And she is.
	I mean, and she's only grown over the years, and she's taught me just about everything that I could possibly know about generosity.
	But I didn't even like it.
	It's paranoid.
	You know, favors from women is like money from the mafia.
	You know?
	To be honest, Steph, I would shed a tear if somebody does that to me.
	Can you imagine that?
	I know.
	Oh, let me get that for you.
	It's like Tony Soprano lending you a car.
	It's like, okay, which body is in the trunk?
	What's going to explode when I turn the key?
	Is this stolen?
	I'm going to be pulled over and arrested for something.
	Why are you lending me a car?
	Ah!
	Right?
	That's what it's like.
	It's like a woman doing me a favor.
	It's like, oh my god, I'm being set up.
	I'm being set up for some horrible crime.
	Ah!
	So...
	Listen, I mean, I went out.
	I mean, I don't want to be, like, a total totem pole, notch-in-the-bell man-whore publication central, but I dated a lot of women before I got married.
	I'm not just...
	Oh, yeah, I dated three women, and coincidentally, I dated a lot of women.
	Did you ask her to do that?
	No!
	I just mentioned, oh, I gotta go downtown and pick up my sandals, and she's like, why don't you pick up your sandals?
	I'm going downtown tomorrow.
	I can get them for you.
	And it was just nonchalant.
	There was no like...
	She didn't ask you, do you want me to get your sandals for you?
	No, she just said she'll get it for you.
	Just total matter-of-fact.
	of fact.
	Yeah.
	Total, total matter of fact.
	No tension, no stress.
	Just matter of fact.
	I'll get your sandals.
	It's like, well, I'll get you a ring then.
	I was Now I'm not up so much money because I'm getting you a ring because you are a helpful young lady.
	And I could use some of that in my life.
	No, because, like, my mom, my mom just, you know, basically, my mom smoked and didn't eat because she wanted to stay thin and pretty.
	And she was very pretty.
	Almost, that was a beautiful, definitely a nine out of ten when she was younger.
	And she didn't do favors for men.
	Because she's pretty!
	Pretty don't do favors.
	Favor is for fugly women.
	And my wife is, anyway, not that way inclined at all.
	She's a very lovely woman.
	But, um...
	And when men does that, it's barely appreciated.
	Oh, God, yeah.
	Oh, yeah, and a number of favors I did for women.
	Oh, you know.
	Barely appreciated.
	Oh, yeah, no, no.
	I remember.
	Yeah, no, it's like, yeah, thanks.
	And, you know, I kept thinking, man, I kept thinking.
	I kept thinking, you know what?
	I'm putting money in the bank here.
	I'm doing favors.
	I'm putting money in the bank.
	I'm putting money in the bank.
	You know why I was putting money?
	In a fucking furnace.
	Weimar, baby!
	It's gone!
	No money in the furnace.
	Because I thought, you know, I'm doing favors for women.
	Boomerang!
	Boomerang!
	Because, you know, I'd always heard how women were...
	Sensitive and nice and sweet and considerate and reciprocal and they really care about fairness and all this, right?
	I'm putting money in the bank.
	I'm doing favors, right?
	And then it's like, need a little withdrawal.
	And they're like, I'm sorry you're overdrawn.
	I'm like, what are you talking about I'm overdrawn?
	What do you mean I owe you money?
	I've been putting money in this account for years.
	50 bucks a week every week.
	Years.
	How the hell am I Overdrawn!
	It's like suicide.
	Because vagina.
	Because vagina!
	And so it's like, this is why I say to people, listen, go have some needs with people.
	Because you know what?
	You having needs that are inconvenient to other people is seeing if there's any money in the goddamn bank account.
	Because when other people would have needs that were inconvenient to me, look, I'm not perfect for having sex, but I'm a pretty good friend.
	And when other people would have needs with me, I'll be like, okay, I'll try and work it out.
	I'll try and figure this out.
	I'll try and help you get what you want and so on, right?
	Oh, you need help with your resume?
	I'm pretty good at word processing.
	Yeah, okay.
	I'll give you a hand, right?
	Ah, you need some help moving?
	Okay, I'll give you a hand.
	Ah, you want to go see a movie?
	You're dying to see this movie.
	I'm not that keen on it, but eh, fine, you know.
	And then you're like, hey, would you mind reading a chapter of my book?
	I'm not sure it's working that well.
	Overdrawn, baby!
	You thought you were depositing.
	All you're doing is putting your money in a blender.
	Paper shredder.
	That's a huge red flag.
	Yeah, so go have some needs that are inconvenient to other people.
	Find out if there's any money in the bank account.
	And so, when my wife said, I could get you sandals, I'm like, whoa, what?
	Is some money coming in my account?
	What?
	No, that can't be right.
	Setup!
	It's a setup!
	Hide, run, change names, move countries, find some place with no extradition treaty, and get there, quickly!
	Couldn't fathom it.
	So, hard work in women?
	Relationships take work.
	Translation, you, with the balls, work.
	Make me happy.
	I'm gonna be pretty and elusive.
	It's your job to keep me happy.
	Otherwise, it's family court for you!
	And this, um...
	Oh yeah, there's like taking money from guys.
	I mean, there's welfare and then there's just balls fare.
	And balls fare is just, you have balls with resources, I have a vagina.
	And apparently prostitution is not only the world's oldest profession, but the most widespread and modern profession as well for women who are like that.
	And it's tough, you know.
	It's really tough because men really want access to the eggs.
	That's what we're biologically driven to do.
	And that gives a huge amount of power to women.
	And to the white knights and manginas who serve up culture to serve women.
	And holy crap!
	Until we sort of recognize that power.
	I'm not saying we even have to do anything about it, but let's at least recognize that power.
	And, you know, when it comes to the reason I'm saying all of this is because you're asking, like, how long is it going to take until I meet a quality woman, right?
	What does quality mean?
	Cares about you.
	Reciprocates kindness with kindness.
	Teaches you things that are helpful to your relationship.
	A lot of women are pretty passive in relationship, which means that they just complain.
	And complaining doesn't fix anything.
	Complaining doesn't fix anything.
	I mean, if complaining was power, most of my ex-girlfriends would be masters and mistresses of time, space, and dimension.
	Complaining fixes nothing.
	The first time of day with my wife, we'd meet and we'd be going to meet some friends or going out.
	And I'd say, oh, we're running a little late.
	We should get going.
	She's like, nope, sit.
	You and I need to connect before we go out socially.
	I'm like, whoa, that's actually really smart.
	And we would do that and we would talk back and forth and connect.
	And 15, 20 minutes of that, she's like, okay, now we can go.
	I'm like, yeah, you know what?
	We're not connected.
	I mean, not just complaining.
	She's actually solving some problems proactively.
	She's preventing problems.
	I'm not happy.
	She's never said that.
	She'd say, you know, I think we could do this, so let's do this better.
	She does stuff to prevent problems from occurring.
	You know, maybe men are the same today.
	I don't know, I only dated women, right?
	But women are like, I'm not happy.
	You're not emotionally available.
	You're not this.
	You should do that.
	You're not here enough.
	I want you to pay the bills, but I also want you to pay me attention.
	You're working too much.
	I want to go shopping.
	Do you want money or do you want my time?
	You can't have both.
	I'm not independently wealthy.
	I've got to work.
	And so these are sort of the delineations of what I have found to be The legendary Arthurian legend of the Nawalt, which is not all women are like that, which I fully and readily admit.
	And they're hard to find these women because if a man finds one of these women, like, you keep them, right?
	You keep them as much as...
	You make them as happy as you possibly can.
	You don't let them go!
	You keep them!
	And...
	You know, and not all women are like that woman, like a woman who's a break to the general trend of modern Western, to use it as loosely as possible, femininity.
	It's like the legendary never-breaks-down used car.
	They just don't go on the market because you don't sell them.
	You sell the stuff, right?
	And so I really want you to, like when looking for, what does it mean?
	You have a terrible template.
	What does it mean to have to get a great woman?
	Of course, you know, work at being the best you can be, work at being a great person, work at being a great human being yourself.
	And then you can get this stuff so quickly.
	So quickly.
	You know, when we were dating, my wife wouldn't let me pay.
	Like, there's supposed to be this big mystery.
	Well, you asked me out, so you have to pay.
	But it's tradition that I ask you out, and that's just the way it works.
	I mean, a man knows that over 90% of dates are initiated by men.
	So that's just the way it works.
	I mean, women should recognize that and that's not an excuse for paying.
	Right?
	Because then, you know, try that with your fiancé.
	Say, honey, listen.
	You're the one who wants a big wedding.
	I'm a guy.
	I'm happy to go to City Hall.
	I don't care.
	I just want to get under the honeymoon, right?
	But you want a big wedding.
	It's your desire, so you have to pay.
	I'm a guy.
	I don't want furniture.
	You know, I want a big screen TV, and I'm happy to sit on the box that came in.
	So if you want furniture, that's your desire, honey.
	You have to pay for that.
	Because you remember when we were dating?
	When we were dating, I asked you out.
	I had the desire.
	I initiated the expense by asking you out, so I had to pay.
	So now you have to pay.
	Oh, do you want a bigger place?
	Like you want to move into...
	I'm a guy.
	I'm happy with like a Google Phonic stereo and a one-bedroom cave.
	So if you want a bigger place, if you want a condo or a house or something, that's your desire, so you have to pay the difference.
	And she'd be like, no, we're a team.
	I want this for us.
	It's like, well, wait.
	Are you saying then...
	You didn't want to come on dates with me.
	It wasn't for us and we weren't a team and we were dating.
	No, if I have to pay because we're dating and that's my desire that I initiate, then you have to pay for all the desires that you initiate.
	And women spend 80 to 85 cents on the dollar in relationships.
	Are they contributing 80 to 85 cents on the dollar?
	No, they're not.
	So the woman spends the man's money for her desires and that's called teamwork.
	But if the man asks the woman or expects the woman to pay on a date, Oh, well, no, you asked me.
	It's your desire.
	You have to pay.
	Oh, but later when it's my desire, you know what?
	You also have to pay.
	You see how this works?
	There's a common thread in here.
	I'll leave you to sort that one out.
	So, find a woman who is genuinely into equality.
	Find a woman who is responsible.
	Find a woman who is helpful.
	Find a woman who works hard.
	And work hard yourself.
	And find a woman who proactively prevents and solves problems and doesn't just complain and complain and complain and complain.
	And then for a little break, we'll complain some more.
	Find a woman who's actually going to proactively solve problems.
	And that's not the template it sounds like you came from.
	Certainly not the template that I came from.
	You know...
	Franklin Delano Roosevelt, you know, when he got married to Eleanor, the bulldog-faced first lady, when he got married, do you know what he did?
	First night, he's married.
	He gives her a big basket of socks that need darning, which is, I guess, it's an old-school thing, right?
	Now we just throw socks out.
	But in the past, socks were expensive, and darning was you would sew up the socks so you could use them again, right?
	You ever hear of such a thing?
	No.
	I didn't really grow up here in Canada.
	Okay, but just imagine.
	Imagine you move in with a woman and you say, here's my socks.
	You need to sew them up.
	Please.
	What would a woman say?
	Fuck you.
	You do it yourself.
	You patriarchal sexist bastard!
	I can't believe it!
	Right?
	Now, Eleanor didn't have really much of a job there, did she?
	Nope.
	She was a pretty resourceful and funny woman, though.
	So, FDR, so Eleanor Roosevelt, they're having some huge Thanksgiving dinner at the White House, and the maid brings in the chicken, the turkey, sorry.
	The maid brings in this big, giant turkey, like one of these Chernobyl turkeys that just could feed like four villages.
	The maid brings in a turkey and drops it.
	And of course, it's Thanksgiving.
	That's the main point.
	You've got to have a turkey.
	Eleanor jumps up and says, Ethel, or whatever her name was, Ethel, take this turkey back out and bring in the exact duplicate turkey we cooked as a backup.
	And of course, everyone kind of knew it was the same turkey, but it was just a way of being funny.
	And so she was a, I mean, her only major regret was she said, I wish I'd been born prettier.
	Which sort of indicated that she was somewhat pretty, which was not exactly the case.
	So the man marries his wife and gives her a big...
	I mean, go home and say, Houston, honey, I've been working all day.
	Can you get me some laundry done?
	Now, some women...
	Don't get me wrong.
	I just never met any.
	You know, maybe there are unicorns on Mars.
	I just...
	You know, no evidence.
	Theoretically, maybe it's possible.
	But man...
	Just imagine.
	Look for a woman who can't imagine complaining.
	What the hell is complaining going to get you?
	Well, of course, if you're pretty and you're harpooning a man's sex drive, which is not that hard to do and quite the opposite metaphor of what's really occurring, you just complain and men do stuff for you, right?
	You stomp your little feet and men run around and do stuff for you.
	At least, you know, until you hit the wall, right?
	To the 30s and 40s and And all that trick stops working and then you start voting and get the government to do it for you instead and you can just coast your whole way, right?
	But just, you know, hard-working women.
	Hard-working women.
	You know, most of the men I know work pretty hard and most of the women that I know don't.
	And just hard-working women who are happy to do favors and you put money in the bank and then when you show up or when there's time to withdraw, there's money and there's interest and there's everything.
	And that's what you need to look for, my friend, if you don't mind me saying so.
	Thanks for that last Ayn Rand video podcast.
	What?
	Oh my god!
	Oh, so this is related to what I just said.
	Sorry, it just seems like an unsequitur.
	When you said that love is the involuntary response to virtue, and that Ayn Rand, I think you just simplified it when you said love is the involuntary response to virtue, but the more wider explanation to it, in principle, love is the appreciation, the respect for shared values and virtues.
	Not all people are rational, because according to Ayn Rand, in order for that to work, you have to be a rational man.
	Yeah, and look, kindness...
	In relationships, hard work, generosity, kindness in relationships, that's rational because that's what works.
	You know, one person's coasting, one person's exploiting, you know, and the idea that historically women have been the exploited sex is madness to me.
	I mean, I used to be more into that.
	Now, again, like, it's okay.
	It's crazy stuff, right?
	There's nothing on the Titanic.
	Like, there's nothing on ships in the 18th century that said, you know, make sure you save the slaves first.
	Only then do white people get in.
	It's like, come on, women and children first on the Titanic.
	It makes no sense to exploit people in the long run.
	Of course.
	We all kind of get that and understand that because that's what breaks up relationships is when one person is just sick and tired of being exploited.
	I think oftentimes it's the man, but men are so beaten down.
	With, oh, you selfish pigs and you patriarch and you, you know, blah, blah, blah, women are victims and women are helpless and this and that and the other, right?
	And that just the idea of saying to a woman, where's my, where's the kindness to me?
	Where's the generosity to me?
	Right?
	Massive complaints with a side of sex do not a nutritious dish make.
	And so, I hope that that helps you find what it is that you're looking for.
	But just, you can, you know, if it's a needle in the haystack, you better be pretty good at figuring out what's straw and what's not.
	And, you know, first day for me, like after that experience, first day for me was like, hey, if the woman's just sitting back there, forget it.
	Forget it.
	Gotta keep moving, right?
	You drive the car, you know, you drive the lemon.
	And, you know, it coughs up smoke three feet from the exit of the, you just, well, done.
	It takes back a look for another car.
	So, anyway, I'm going to move on to the next caller, but thank you so much for your call, and I hope it works out, and keep your eyes peeled for the now whilst they're out there.
	Thank you very much, Steph, Mike, and Stoyan.
	And, yeah, thank you very much, and thanks for the Ayn Rand as well.
	You're welcome.
	Please share it if you can.
	I'd like to see that.
	Every day.
	Thanks, man.
	I appreciate that.
	All right, let's move on.
	Who do we got next?
	All right, up next is John.
	John wrote in and said, Stefan, most if not all of the atheists I have met in my life are former Catholics.
	They tend to have grown up in homes that were overtly religious but not very well versed in the Bible.
	Most have been intelligent people who quickly saw through the nonsensical, extra-biblical teachings of the Catholic Church and then decided that Christianity and Jesus were therefore myths.
	Is this true in your case?
	I wasn't growing up Catholic, no.
	I mean, I'm happy to sort of talk about my deconversion, but if you have sort of more comments or questions, I'm certainly happy to hear those.
	Yes.
	Hey, Steph, this is John.
	It's a great honor to be on with you.
	Thanks for having me.
	My pleasure.
	Thank you for calling.
	Yeah, I was sorry.
	I was kind of just listening so intently to your last caller.
	So I've got to switch gears here.
	Oh, trust me.
	That's a pretty important topic if you've got the twigs and berries because we kind of want to keep our resources for the good ladies, right?
	No, you're absolutely right.
	Honestly, I heard you talking about your wife and how you found a real gem there.
	Honestly, I was married for over 10 years.
	Honestly, when I was dating, I thought I had a gem as well.
	You know, it turns out ten years later, and three children later, she goes off the rails, and of course, I guess due to the virtue of her having a vagina, she has my children, among other things, but that's another topic.
	Hey, but hang on, hang on, and we'll get to the other thing, and I just wanted to say I'm incredibly sorry about all of that, but...
	Were there any signs beforehand, like dating, or any signs that she might go, as you say, off the rails?
	You know, honestly, Steph, I wish I'd had your advice about 12 or 13 years ago, and I would have probably been more attuned to the red flags.
	So I can't say that there weren't some red flags dating, but overall...
	What were those?
	Help out the other brothers there, my friend.
	Oh, okay.
	Sorry, I wasn't even...
	Red flags.
	Well, honestly, we really did not have a...
	There were so many things we probably did not see eye to eye on, and there were a lot of comments that she made that...
	Just a lot of comments that, I guess, morally and socially, I probably should have...
	Listened to a little bit more intently.
	Everything from the kind of music she listened to to the kind of her dating relationships.
	Oh my god, man.
	You were like...
	From Mr.
	Monologue, I've gone to Mr.
	Abstraction.
	I mean, give me some music she listened to.
	That doesn't help anyone, John.
	We're looking for, like, red flags here, not like, there are flags in the world.
	Some of them may be red, right?
	What was it in particular?
	Like, I've got a guy, a friend of mine says he will never ever date a woman who likes the song Goodbye Earl.
	Oh, yeah.
	That makes sense.
	Right?
	Because it's about, you know...
	Female victims murdering an abusive husband, right?
	Right.
	Goodbye, Earl!
	It's like, goodbye, honey!
	Enjoy your redneck fantasies because you're not getting any of my stuff, right?
	Right.
	So, I mean, I don't know.
	I mean, is that true or not?
	I don't know.
	But, I mean, it's true that that's what his belief is.
	Like, I never have anything to do with any woman who likes that song, right?
	But you said music she likes.
	Yeah, it was, well, like, for instance...
	She was into the, I don't even know what you call it, it's like, I call it screaming into the microphone.
	And she was kind of into that sort of thing.
	Okay, but screaming into the microphone, what is that?
	Yeah, that's the kind of, I don't even know what you call that.
	I'm not even sure what you call that genre of music, but that's what I call it.
	Okay, can you give me a band or a song?
	No, I don't either.
	That's so how...
	Is it like the guttural stuff?
	Like...
	Like the satanic kind of guttural stuff?
	Exactly.
	That stuff.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	Okay, that's a clue.
	Yeah, it should have been.
	Not that she listened to it all the time, but that was one thing.
	The stuff that makes Lenny from Motorhead sound like Pavarotti, right?
	Okay, got it.
	Yeah, honestly, the biggest thing was she had spent time overseas, and she was very, shall we say, Eurocentric.
	She was almost un-American at times.
	I, for one, I'm a former Marine, so I'm an American, okay?
	Okay, got it.
	I don't know.
	She put forth, say, the European, I guess, mindset as being superior.
	And that was probably some of the biggest ones.
	Oh, yes.
	America's petty upstart civilization.
	Oh, so, so rough and ready.
	Oh, so Davy Crockett and Buckshot and Indian squaws for lunch.
	Oh, unlike us, oh, we've been so civilized for so long.
	Do you know, we had the Black Death and the Spanish Inquisition followed by approximately 12 billion deaths of world wars in the second and 20th century.
	I mean, that's what we call civilization.
	I don't know what you people call it.
	Right.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Not that I don't appreciate...
	Cholera!
	Cholera!
	Europe, for many years, led the world in cholera.
	Not to mention diphtheria.
	I think I may have mentioned the plague.
	Did you get a lot of cholera in the New World?
	I don't think you did.
	Child labor!
	Oh, yes, child labor.
	Not much of that in American hours.
	That's not what I call civilized.
	I mean, what do you clean your chimneys with, ferrets?
	Oh.
	Yeah, and I wish I'd have thought to write down all those red flags, but they were...
	I actually had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day.
	Okay, so wait, hang on.
	So she was a Euro snob who was into, like, satanic, possessed by a Great Dane throat singing.
	Right.
	And how did she appear?
	How did she present herself?
	How did she dress?
	As a...
	Fairly modestly.
	I mean, she didn't walk around like a tramp, usually.
	And when she did, the one time I called her out on that, and she got a clue.
	So...
	But she would also, let me, she would also, the other thing that should have been a clue was she would tell me the trashy comments that trashy guys would say to her, you know, when she was out and about.
	Well, that doesn't sound very Euro-snobby, does it?
	Yeah.
	I can't imagine, like, Mrs.
	Oscar de la Renta saying, that construction worker thought I had a great arse.
	What?
	And, of course, you joke, but that's, that's a, That's essentially what she would say.
	No, but that's bidding up the goods, right?
	I mean, man, do you know how much other men want me?
	So you'd better bid up me.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so you had some red flags.
	What was her female template?
	In other words, there's a great way to kill your irrational boner.
	If you want to just shoot your penis off with the gun of time...
	You just go meet your hot woman's mom.
	Right.
	And that's what you're going to be plunging into in the not-too-distant future, right?
	Yeah, and actually, one thing you were saying earlier about children as confidants, that was one thing her mother did, and I believe that my wife may be doing that now to my children, actually.
	Gosh.
	I'm sorry about that.
	So what was her mom like?
	I mean, I assume you met her before you got married, right?
	Yes.
	She pretended to be the sweet little Christian wife.
	They've been former missionaries to Thailand, etc.
	And she homeschooled her children.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	I'm sorry, John.
	I'm sorry to interrupt.
	Oh, my God.
	Are you religious?
	Yeah, I'm a Christian, yes.
	Okay, okay, okay.
	So...
	You know, I'm not particularly that way inclined, as you know, and we don't have to talk about that right now.
	I know that's our original topic.
	We'll get to it in a sec.
	But as a non-believer, and in other words, as a believer in stuff that to me makes a little bit more sense, that would kind of be a red flag for me as well, right?
	Right.
	And honestly, it should have been...
	In fact, it probably was for me as well, because I am a Christian, but honestly...
	Much like you, I don't believe in most of my fellow Christians' BS, to put it mildly.
	Well, God's sake, don't go to Thailand.
	Pick on someone your own size.
	You know, like, no, seriously, go convert Dawkins or, you know, go Ouija board Hitchens and change his dead ass, right?
	Go Sam.
	Like, God, I mean, go to Thailand?
	It's like those missionaries who go to Africa.
	Really?
	Really?
	Giant challenge for you theologically to win that debate?
	I mean, for God's sakes, pick on someone your own size.
	Pick on someone educated.
	Pick on someone who's, you know, read comparative religion studies.
	You know, it's just, I don't know.
	It just seems like Mike Tyson wading into a girl guide camp with both fists and saying, I'm winning!
	Anyway.
	I entirely agree with you.
	You won't get any argument from me on that.
	Did her mom have a job?
	No, she had worked.
	That was, again, they did the very traditional Christian thing where dad was a breadwinner, mom stayed home, homeschooled the children, and in fact, at one point he had a reverse vasectomy to have six more children.
	My wife was the oldest of eight, actually.
	What, do they add in a few more tubes when they reverse that?
	I mean, holy shit.
	That's like shooting blanks.
	I got a woman pregnant through a lead wall.
	I just fly over a town.
	I hold in a sneeze and half the women are pregnant down there.
	That's what I call a reverse vasectomy.
	What, do they put in a cannon?
	You're lucky to squeeze one out if you get a reverse vasectomy.
	I didn't know they put in like a hair trigger landmine of sperm dust.
	Holy shit.
	Yeah, that's...
	I feel kind of giddy tonight.
	I don't know why.
	I'm just in a good mood.
	Well, good.
	I'm glad to hear that.
	At your expense, I'm afraid, at the seriousness of your issues.
	But you're right.
	I would rather you laugh at my expense and save some other poor schlub from hell on earth.
	You know what I mean?
	You know, also, too, Mike and I were talking about this earlier.
	We've had a little bit of the parade of endless human misery on the shows lately, so we've tried to sort of restructure it a little bit to talk about some stuff that's not just...
	But anyway, so I'm...
	I feel like I'm not sort of weighted down by the ACE score of the underworld.
	And so it's nice to not...
	Because I can't make kind of jokes when people are talking about their terrible childhoods.
	And again, I know this is a marital mess.
	And so I want to be sympathetic to that.
	But if you're okay with the good humor, I... Oh, no, absolutely.
	At least you're not like phoning me.
	It's like, I'm currently in my dad's car.
	I'm in the trunk.
	I'm tied up.
	I don't know where we're going.
	I think there's a sibling in here, but he's not moving.
	I'm like, oh God, I can't breathe.
	Okay, so you had some red flags.
	You had some warnings.
	Do you mind?
	And listen, you don't have to talk about any of this if you don't want to, but what precipitated the split?
	You have three kids, you said, right?
	Yeah.
	And I'll give you just a little bit of background.
	I'll try not to do the monologue thing.
	But by the way, I do have three sisters.
	Sorry, that's my attempt at humor.
	So, yeah, I lost my job in 2010.
	You know, for a Marine, that's pretty good.
	I'm sorry, just kidding.
	They don't have a lot of humor training in basic training.
	Actually, you know, Don was great.
	Once more, soldier, but with a clown nose on.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	The other thing that should have been a red flag, in fact, the day I asked her to marry me, she said afterwards, as an add-on, she said, well, we do get to live overseas at some point, right?
	And I was like, sure, that sounds fun.
	I can totally see that happening.
	So, in order to fulfill my promise to her, in 2010, we moved to Berlin, Germany.
	And she got a job through a friend and Yeah, yeah.
	Can you hear me?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Sorry.
	She said, we get to live overseas, and you said, that sounds like a good idea.
	How is that a promise?
	I swear, by my life and my love of it.
	Right?
	I mean, the reason I'm saying this is I'm currently working on this shit with my daughter, right?
	Because my daughter's like, Dad, you promised.
	I'm like, nope.
	I said we should.
	I said we could.
	I said we might.
	But my daughter always wants to elevate it to a promise because she knows when she's got me a promise, she's got me by the noose, right?
	Because I can't ever go back on a promise unless I'm currently being pummeled by asteroids from Klingon territory or something, right?
	And honestly, it's not like she nailed me down and made me sign a piece of paper and blood or anything like that, no.
	But was it a promise?
	Or was it like, yeah, I'd like to do that too?
	Yeah, it was more of the, yeah, we can, I definitely can see that as a possibility.
	So no, it was not like a- Not a promise.
	It was not an absolute promise, no.
	Yeah, because, I mean, just, I know you get this now, but I sort of want to just alert other people.
	Beware of the surreptitious promise upgrade.
	That is like, that is like manipulation- Nagasaki, right?
	That's like thermonuclear manipulation is you just casual comment and suddenly it's like, you promised!
	You swore on the blood of your mother's grave.
	And it's like, no, we just, you know, always watch out for that because that is a really bullying tactic.
	And when people do this, like, and I'm not talking about my daughter.
	She's five.
	She's just trying whatever she can to get her way and it's perfectly fine.
	It's perfectly valid.
	But for adults, this surreptitious promise upgrade, it's like, whoa.
	Whoa, did the ground just suddenly shift?
	Why am I in Thailand now?
	What the hell happened?
	It's no good.
	But to be perfectly honest with you, Steph, she didn't really pull the whole you promised thing on me, but I guess the opportunity came about and I was like, So I was like, well, I did sort of promise.
	So I was like, well, it's a perfect opportunity to fulfill that promise.
	And the idea was to stay, you know, a couple, two to three years was our, what we decided not to, you know, not to overstay our welcome, so to speak.
	And you went to Germany?
	Went to Germany, Berlin.
	Yeah, fine city.
	Yeah, of course, you know, the cake and helmets are really good.
	So, I mean, it's tough to...
	Tough to move back from that.
	Everyone here is toilet trained at gunpoint.
	I feel the whole world is a marine barracks.
	I couldn't love it more!
	Anyway, sorry.
	And truthfully, I'm from Georgia, where we get nine months of summer, and I moved to Berlin, where it's nine months of winter.
	Okay.
	And so, honestly, at some point, I was like, after about two years of this, I was like, you know, we agreed, you know, two or three years, so let's, you know, let's start to look to move back to the U.S. and basically...
	Sorry, just don't interrupt.
	You mentioned one other thing about Germany?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	This is my impression of Hitler about 1941, probably around February.
	Are you ready?
	Okay.
	This is going to go on for a while.
	Actually, it's pretty short.
	You ready?
	Okay.
	Ah!
	Russia!
	I think it's warmer.
	That's my impression of why Germany invaded Hitler.
	Hitler invaded Russia in 1942.
	I think they just thought it was warmer.
	They're not big on geography other than if it's not Germany, conquer it.
	Okay, so then you headed back.
	So I was...
	Well, it became very evident that she was not going to...
	She had no desire whatsoever to leave Europe and I had been...
	At that point, I realized I had been suckered and...
	Oh, you know what?
	This ties into what we were just talking about, right?
	So you thought, hey, we're going to Europe.
	I'm putting a lot of money in the relationship bank here, right?
	Big favor.
	Big favor.
	I'm making my woman happy.
	I'm putting money in the bank.
	Right.
	And then how did that pay out?
	Yeah, I had fulfilled my obligation of two to three years.
	In fact, that's what we decided.
	And in fact, her company had just expanded.
	They had opened an office in Austin, Texas.
	And I was like, perfect.
	We can move.
	Texas is a fine state.
	We'll move there.
	Look, honey, it's a picture of the sun.
	Let's go there.
	Let's just go where we can see the sky.
	I've been living in a German fog bank for three years.
	Please let me out.
	Yeah, so I realized that wasn't going to happen.
	So I took a trip back to the U.S., and it was literally supposed to be eight weeks.
	And I was going to look for jobs because I did not have a work visa when I was in Germany.
	She did.
	So that was the deal.
	I was doing online classes and taking care of children, etc., etc.
	I mean, sorry to interrupt, but this is because I spent some time in Germany, particularly when I was very younger.
	My mom's German.
	I never understood this because I learned about the Second World War.
	It's like, you dumb krauts.
	They're like, first we go east, then we go north!
	It's like, do you know how weather works?
	You dumb sauerkraut-wielding bastards!
	Go south!
	Go south!
	You don't see the British trying to take over fucking Finland!
	We're going to Turks and Caicos!
	We're going to Africa!
	We're going south!
	Because it's cold!
	Don't go east!
	Don't go north!
	You might as well drill to the center of the earth and wait to warm your asses in lava!
	Go south!
	Yeah, I could never...
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah, sorry.
	Just from a historical standpoint, I could never figure out why Spain went completely unblessed during both world wars, right?
	But that's, again, another story.
	Because look, anybody who considers it entertainment to run with bulls, We'll obviously not be fazed by Panzer divisions.
	I have no protection.
	There's 12,000 pounds of angry bull with giant horns running at me.
	Yippee!
	Like, okay, we'll leave those guys alone.
	We'll just go somewhere else.
	So, yeah, so I came home, and that was, yeah, in 2012, and after about two years of, yeah, the fog bank of northern Germany.
	And, yeah, And that cold really gets in your bones, right?
	That's one of the few places I've gone in the world where I could actually step into a giant pizza oven and still feel cold.
	Right.
	It's like, how the hell do you get my bone marrow to ice over?
	Like, this fucking country is insane.
	Anyway, go ahead.
	Yeah, and basically once I was gone out of the country, she told me to not come back.
	And if I did...
	And this, again, this was stupid on my part, but I was in such a state at the time.
	It sounds completely ridiculous now that I'm relating this story to you.
	But she said, if you come back, it's a divorce automatically.
	But I'm willing to...
	Wait, so if you stay away, we'll be together.
	But if you come back, we're getting separated.
	Yeah, it's an automatic divorce if you come back.
	But we can work on it.
	Oh, so she had another guy?
	I found out later.
	I was not even over the jet lag and she was out slutting around at parties.
	Almost guaranteed.
	I hate to say this, but almost guaranteed.
	She had another guy, which is like, well, you stay over there and we'll work on it, which means I'll take my Vaggie out for a nice stroll around town while you stay away.
	But if you come back here and interfere with my Vaggie walkabout, then it's over.
	Yeah, and I'm sorry about that.
	That's heartbreaking stuff.
	Yeah.
	And, uh, of course I was, and I'm sure it wasn't a guy.
	It was guys.
	I mean, she is complete Euro trash whore.
	And again, I wish the red, the red flags and I wish I could enumerate those better.
	Uh, but they'll come to me, uh, as the night goes on.
	But, um, yeah, I should have known better.
	And, uh, then, um, they all came crashing down and, you know, once she didn't need me, uh, she no, no, she no longer needed me, uh, From a monetary standpoint, financially...
	Wait, why is that?
	Is that because she...
	Because she was working in Germany.
	She was the one who had the job.
	And before that, she hadn't really been...
	She'd only been part-time employed.
	So she was working a full-time job in Germany.
	And so she didn't need me anymore, financially.
	And of course, she's got the German welfare state as well.
	So I'm just...
	I'm worthless.
	And as you said, she's...
	Yeah, you're like unsubsidized penis, and there's lots of subsidized penises out there.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	So, go ahead.
	And then the other thing, and this is...
	I'm glad you brought this out, because the other thing you need to realize, and I'm talking to all the men out there who are even contemplating going to another country or marrying a woman from another country, and it's called...
	Let me make sure I get the...
	If I can think of the actual verbiage, it's called the International...
	International agreement on child custody, essentially.
	But basically, I got screwed because we had set up residence in a foreign country, and therefore the German courts, by international law, they have jurisdiction over my children.
	And I found out the hard way about that.
	So that's another thing that all your listeners need to be mindful of.
	And what does that mean?
	So you say, I mean, I know what it means sort of legally that the German courts had jurisdiction, but why did that screw you in particular?
	Well, because I found that the hard way because I was told by attorneys in the U.S. last year to bring my children home and then file for divorce.
	Because here's what happened.
	I was told to bring them home for, quote-unquote, for the summer and then not return them And file for divorce and custody in the U.S., which I did.
	Turns out that is not the legal way to go about things.
	And I am currently, my case is currently pending in a German court for custody.
	Yeah, so obviously it'd be an uphill battle regardless, but even more of an uphill battle being in a foreign court.
	So I guess I just have one question left to ask you.
	Okay.
	Do you know what it's going to be?
	What do you mean?
	What the...
	John, you know what I'm going to ask you.
	Oh, do you know how...
	Are you asking me how the courts are going to decide?
	No.
	No?
	No, let's go back in time a little bit.
	Okay.
	Do you remember how you were a little bit cloudy on the red flags?
	Yes.
	John, how pretty was she?
	Oh, she was...
	Yeah.
	You got me.
	How pretty was she, John?
	She was a nine, for sure.
	Right.
	Where are you hovering there, soldier boy?
	No, where are you at?
	I mean, look, I mean, most guys in the army are pretty damn hot, right?
	I mean, you all got, like, more abs than a bucket full of 300 outtakes.
	Yeah, I wasn't a bad-looking fellow either, so...
	All right.
	So she wanted my genetics, and she's got those.
	And we got three beautiful, smart kids.
	So she got what she wanted out of me, and she was done.
	So there you go.
	Yeah, you don't have to make no sandwich for no welfare state, right?
	You don't have to clean up for government bureaucrats.
	They just give you stuff with no requirement for reciprocity.
	Yeah, and what was your term earlier?
	Inconvenience needs, I think you said?
	Oh yeah, have needs inconvenient for those around you.
	Find out if there's any money in the bank.
	Right, so I mean, and this is so important.
	Like, as you know, your balls don't care about no German courts, right?
	Right.
	Your balls are just like...
	Egg. Scud.
	That's like...
	Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg.
	I mean, it's like, Jesus, that's a pretty monotonous play, but it works, right?
	Right.
	And, you know, what do you want?
	Eggs for breakfast, eggs for lunch, eggs for dinner, get cracking!
	Right?
	I mean, that's, that's, your ball's just like, egg?
	You know, we're, we got way more sperm than could do any good.
	We could repopulate the planet pretty much every second day when we're 17.
	So, egg!
	And, What happens is your balls have this amazing ability to shut down your brain.
	And I don't just mean this like some sort of analogy.
	That's directly physiologically what happens.
	Sexual arousal in a man, particularly if he thinks it might lead to a long-term relationship, not always though, but if there's more than just lust, but if there's some genuine desire for the person as well, your brain shuts down, which is really not good.
	It's like, Basically, your balls are like this Hulk superhero that smashes through those cheesy, in the old Hulk movies.
	They didn't have any CGI back in the day, right?
	So they just made these walls out of these polystyrene bricks that were even badly painted and had no weight to them whatsoever, right?
	Hulk!
	Lou Ferrigno!
	Go through a wall!
	I mean, like he's doing it on the moon.
	There's so little gravity to these things, right?
	I mean, he might as well be bench pressing soap bubbles.
	And so your brain is like this flimsy little wall and you're like with not even real wall.
	It's not like the end of the movie, the wall by Pink Floyd, boom, can't get through the wall, right?
	This is like, Hulk, move wall aside, get egged.
	And your brain is just like, whoa, okay, step aside, man.
	We're only polystyrene.
	You've got big green ass muscles.
	We can't do nothing.
	See how I work the green in for the marine?
	Anyway, it's just right there for you.
	This is the kind of listener sensitivity that we absolutely have in our metaphoric generation.
	Go faster, metaphor trolls!
	We need more!
	Throw on the coal.
	So what you need to do is remember in the future, of course, when you are sexually aroused as a man, you are retarded.
	You're mentally retarded.
	You might as well take like 19 sleeping pills and then, like, try to fly a plane.
	Particularly if you've never flown one before.
	It's sort of what...
	Right?
	So you need to be alert.
	Like when you are sexually aroused, it's like you're in a car driving fast and you've had five beers.
	Do you know how well you have to drive when you're in that situation?
	Extremely bad.
	Not that I'm ever suggesting anyone should.
	But it's like when your balls get moving, they're like these giant castanets that destroy your frontal lobes.
	And they literally, you can feel yourself devolving back down to like bonobo status.
	Egg, monkey, ball, monkey, vagina, banana?
	No, vagina, egg!
	Right?
	I mean, literally, it's that guttural for men.
	And we go into this daze of endorphins and happy juice and future.
	Like, you know, there's this myth, and tell me what you think about it.
	There's this myth like Women of the Romantic Ones.
	I find that to be complete and total bullshit.
	Complete and total bullshit.
	Like all exquisite bullshit, it's the exact opposite of the truth.
	In my experience and in the experience of every single man I know, it is men who are the hopeless romantics and women who are like the Machiavellian calculating robots of resource allocation.
	Yes, they sit on their throne and wait to be romanticized.
	Yeah, and it's like, I mean, they like romance.
	Do you know why women like romance?
	Because it means men have no judgment.
	Ooh, he's romantic!
	That means he's a bonobo!
	He's a trained ball monkey of resource cannon spitting!
	Yay!
	That's all!
	Why do women like cards?
	Because you write cards with fucking crayons!
	Because you've lost your brain!
	I like crazy girl!
	Just doing money!
	Love!
	I mean, that's what romance sounds like to women.
	It's like, ah, good.
	I have now remote-controlled the bull and robot.
	It's like, Wi-Fi connected.
	I am now in control.
	We've hacked in to the neofrontal cortex.
	We have overridden The post-Monkey beta expansion pack that's buggy as hell, and now Estrogen runs the show, baby, because he's being romantic.
	Flowers?
	Great!
	That means I've got the joystick.
	I have a giant 200-pound marine drone that I can fly and go get me resources and then eject whenever I want.
	Yes, and you're...
	What you said a minute ago was your brain shuts down, but your brain shuts down right when you need it most, right when you need to be thinking.
	It is a lot like driving drunk.
	You need your brain function then more than ever.
	But you're right.
	It shuts down.
	That's what I want to say to women.
	Ladies, if you're so desirable, why have men evolved to turn into idiots when they're aroused?
	Like if women are just so great and so helpful and so wonderful and so beautiful and so like then why the hell have men evolved to shut their brains down to hamster status in order to have sex with them?
	Right.
	Right.
	That's like saying, I've got this beautiful art gallery.
	Oh, John, this art is the most beautiful stuff you'll ever see.
	Now, I'm afraid I'm going to need to gouge your eyes out before you come in and see the exhibits.
	And you'll be like, wait a minute.
	If this art is beautiful, why the hell would I need to gouge my eyes out?
	Oh, trust me.
	It's beautiful art.
	You just don't look at it, whatever you do.
	Just gouge your eyes out and you'll really be able to appreciate it.
	It's like, why the hell do I need to scoop out the last, say, Quarter of a million years of evolution from my brain in order to be with a woman.
	That is like desperately not praising women and it's not men's fault because it's biology.
	It's just the way that the world evolved.
	It's the way that the male brain has evolved.
	In order to get with women, man's brain needs to shut down to the point where he's somewhere between a tapeworm and a tribolite.
	Right, which brings me to another question I'd like to ask and that is, you know, because I have Three children.
	I have two sons.
	And, you know, what should I be telling my sons about, you know, future relationships and how to avoid women like their mother?
	Well, that's a challenging conversation to have because she's their mother, right?
	That's why I brought her to you.
	Yeah, no, no, it is a challenging conversation to have.
	And my daughter is, she's a looker.
	And that's I'm great, I guess.
	You know, I think it was what the woman who was in charge of Mensa in the United States was asked whether she would rather have a pretty girl or a smart girl.
	She said, pretty.
	Not even a pause.
	Pretty.
	Right?
	And that's because the smart girls get the Nobel Prize, but the Nobel Prize, and she's obviously interested in genetics.
	And My daughter is pretty, and that's a lot of power.
	She doesn't have a lot of power.
	You know, she's smart.
	She's, you know, stable.
	She's very kind, and she's very pretty.
	And, oh, my God, it's just horrifying to see what happens to the boys around her.
	Right.
	I mean, they're literally, like, they turn into, like, mollusks of, like, barely functioning neurological, let alone mental capacity.
	And what I want to say to these little guys is, like, dude...
	I know you're only five.
	I know you're not expected to have a lot of game.
	But don't put a yogurt cup on your head and call it a hat and think that you're being charming.
	I mean, that's just, oh my god.
	Like, don't reinforce what a lot of women think about men and boys, which is that we're idiots.
	But you see, women aren't looking at men like a Nobel Prize committee is looking at men.
	Women aren't looking at men like investors are looking at men.
	Women are looking at men like tits look at men.
	Which is drooling bonobos.
	So when women say, like, men are idiots, that's kind of true.
	Because when men are attracted to women, we turn into idiots.
	Like, physiologically, we devolve.
	It is like, spine plus penis plus date movie equals, you know?
	And so, as far as, like, how to talk to your kids, I mean, obviously, I'm going to need to talk to my daughter and say, look, you've got a lot of power, and I You know, I try to sort of explain to her, like, the boy might think you're pretty or something, and so he's, you know, God, first of all, talk to your boys about how to talk to women, right?
	That's important, right?
	I mean, women are people, right?
	I mean, I'm incredibly happily married, so I have no sexual chemistry with anyone outside of my wife.
	Like, I don't, like, I can meet the most attractive women, and I do, you know, time to time and travel, meet the most attractive women.
	I don't care.
	You got nothing.
	I got my eggs.
	Thanks.
	Don't need more eggs.
	And so I just teach them how to talk to women, how to be curious about women, how to ask questions of women, and tell them to be alert to a woman's character, which is kind of what we all need.
	And obviously...
	People think that there's anything negative about women in this.
	It's ridiculous, right?
	I mean, it literally is like saying, well, if you hate the welfare state, then you must hate the poor.
	And if you hate female sexual manipulation, you must hate women.
	It's like, no.
	I like the poor, which is why I hate the welfare state.
	I love women, which is why they need to stop doing this crap and men need to stop enabling it.
	And I know that goes against biology and I know that goes against evolution.
	Who gives a shit, right?
	Right.
	I mean, I was constantly told as a kid, To not go with just biological-based instincts, right?
	So, yes.
	Have them talk to women.
	Have them view women and girls as people.
	And that, I think, is the most important thing.
	Marriage is...
	Like, it centers around sex because it's about kids and investments and resources and pair bonding and all that kind of stuff.
	But fundamentally, it's about people.
	And as you know, you spend most of your time when you're married not having sex at all.
	And that's even before kids, after kids.
	It's like the Perseid media shower sometimes it seems like.
	And so they're just – it is important to love the person.
	The sex, of course, is a wonderful bonus and addition.
	But if they really can look at women as people – and I know that sounds kind of simplistic.
	But I think if you had looked at your wife as a person, which is to say if she was a nun, if she was a man but with the same personality, what would have happened?
	Right.
	You know, it's important to think of your potential mates as sexually unavailable, because if you want to have kids with them, a lot of times that's how it's going to be, right?
	That's the truth.
	Right.
	So, I mean, if it's sexually unavailable, and this is the basic statistics that shuts down a man's reasoning centers.
	And people think it's like to do with like should you have kids or not?
	It's nothing like the basic thing that shuts down men's reasoning centers is do I like this person as a person outside of the sex?
	Right.
	Because your genetics don't care once the kid is born and has a reasonable chance of survival.
	Your genetics don't care whether you're happy.
	They just care whether there's another one of you, right?
	That they get to replicate.
	That's all they care about.
	Right.
	Now, of course, we know, right?
	Successful parenting...
	In the past, you really only had to, you know, get them to puberty, like in evolution, right?
	Right.
	Because once you get them to puberty, then they can start having more babies.
	But now, we aim to get kids, like, double puberty, right?
	So instead of, like, 13, we get them to 25 or 26, which is the end of brain development, and usually when they've done their education and launching on some sort of professional thing, right?
	Right.
	Now, your genes haven't figured out that we've doubled childhood.
	So your genes are like, Can I stand this person for a decade?
	And that's kind of what happened with you, right?
	You got 10 years in, right?
	Right.
	And it's funny that she actually had told a mutual friend of ours at some point that, yeah, she was willing to give it 10 years and see how it went from there, which is completely asinine to most people's thinking, but I guess maybe that's a thing.
	But no, but that's genetically, right?
	That's how we're primed.
	You know, because, you know, I mean, you get kids to double digits and, you know, they're within a stone's throw usually of getting married and having their own kids, right?
	I mean, especially these days.
	I mean, not that I'm saying it should happen, but kids are hitting puberty earlier and earlier, but certainly throughout history, where there wasn't malnutrition, you know, by 12 or 13, I mean, they're fertile, they can make their own kids and so on, right?
	So now we've got this thing where it's doubled.
	Right.
	But obviously our genetics haven't really figured that out, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's a good point.
	And so now we need to be conscious of, I've got to stand this person for at least a quarter century from the first kid.
	Right.
	And that's a whole different set of criteria, I think.
	Not completely, but somewhat.
	And, you know, there's a reason why a 10-year sentence is not as bad as a 25-year sentence, right?
	And so I just wanted to sort of mention that, that literal narcotic haze that men get into when they're romantically aroused, because it's not just sexual, because it lasts for longer than just sexuality.
	Usually it lasts about six months, and the reason it lasts about six months is that's usually from getting interested in someone to making the first baby, right?
	Right.
	That's true.
	And so you get these crazy endorphins and you get all kinds of wired up and jazzed up and people think that's love.
	No.
	No, that's relationship.
	But that stuff to love is the relationship of heroin to philosophical happiness.
	And when that stuff wears off and people look at each other, they don't even know if they like each other.
	I mean, it must have been over the course of your marriage.
	It must have sort of been revealed to you over time.
	It's kind of a shallow manipulative witch you got on your hands there, right?
	Yeah, and you know, like I said, I kind of blame myself because, hell, I should have known, you know, the red flags were there, you know, looking back, thinking back, talking to other people.
	You know, even her family, you know, she's got a big family, as I mentioned, and even her sister's mentions like, you know, some, they didn't come out and out say, he's like, man, you got screwed.
	Actually, actually, I take that back.
	Her father did.
	This was strange.
	Her father did what?
	Her father told me not to marry her.
	He did, in fact.
	He told me, and this is no shit, and this is outrageous, but while we were still dating before we got engaged or married, we were sitting at the table, and in fact, I think she was in the kitchen there, in the same room with us, and he said, you don't want to marry her, you want to marry, and he named off his younger daughters.
	You would be much better off with...
	These other two?
	One of these other two?
	And I'm like...
	One of these other two?
	These other two?
	I'll trade you two for one.
	She's that crazy.
	Come on!
	Go Mormon!
	Yeah, yeah.
	So he says, you know, date this.
	And did he tell you why?
	Um...
	She...
	Oh, yeah, he did.
	He said because she's selfish.
	She's selfish and cold-hearted.
	And he continually reminded her and everyone else that she had been born on the coldest day of the year.
	Was she the prettiest?
	No.
	Not of the daughters, no.
	Oh, really?
	Were you tempted by any of the others?
	No, because they were all way younger.
	Oh, right, right.
	You know.
	They're all grown up now, so I guess I can compare, but back then they were...
	Right.
	Yeah, so...
	Alright.
	But yeah.
	So yeah, again, literally the man...
	And I guess I thought he was joking, but I didn't know him well enough because honestly the man doesn't joke.
	When he...
	He's one of those guys.
	He doesn't joke.
	He just tells you.
	And it's all very kind of bland and dry humor.
	I thought it was dry humor, but it wasn't.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	You know, I've got to tell you, I'd be pretty keen on not...
	Like, if I wanted to get that message across to someone, I'd be pretty keen to know they got it.
	Right.
	You know, like, that's not unimportant, right?
	Right.
	This could mess up your entire life!
	Right.
	Are you serious?
	You know, like, that's kind of important.
	You know, if a doctor says, take this pill or you'll die, like, you kind of want to...
	No, if the person's on the up and up.
	Right.
	And literally, I thought it was some kind of form of dry British humor he was throwing at me or something.
	And so I just laughed it off.
	Because who says that in front of their daughter and their potential future son-in-law?
	But he did.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, well, I mean, he may have been sort of saying that to assuage his conscience, but not actually, you know, you take her, right?
	Right.
	Yeah, I'm going to tell you once, sucker, and then that's it.
	Yeah, yeah.
	My conscience is clear.
	I don't think you got it, but all right, at least I told him.
	Yeah.
	This car's a lemon.
	Anyway, you should buy it.
	Right.
	Wow.
	Listen, I mean, like, I appreciate you sharing all this stuff.
	I know it's a bit of sort of left field and I'm incredibly sorry.
	You know, there's many sentences you never want to say.
	One of them is, my case is going to be decided by a German court.
	Right.
	And so I'm incredibly sorry that that's the situation.
	Right.
	Did you want to get back to the religious stuff?
	I did want to ask you at least one other question.
	In one of your older videos, you had put an offer on the table to debate any theologian on religion.
	Yes.
	So that offer is still on the table.
	And I'm not saying that I would actually step into that role because I'm not a theologian.
	But I thought maybe I would recruit one if that's, you know, if it was still.
	Yeah, just send it to Mike and we'll work on it.
	I'm certainly happy to chat.
	Religion is a...
	It's a very, very important issue.
	And it shows up in many forms.
	Not to, you know, I mean, you and I probably be closer politically, and that's one area in which we are not superstitious.
	But in other areas, there may be a wider gap.
	And, you know, where there's a wide gap about essential issues, one or both of us is wrong.
	It's pretty important to find out who, right?
	Right.
	I think it's an okay thing to talk about.
	I know some people shy away, but I'm glad you don't, and that's good.
	No, it's great.
	And, you know, one other question is...
	I'm assuming you're familiar with the term alternative news or alternative media.
	It's familiar.
	I believe I may be embedded in that very milieu.
	That was my question.
	There's a two-part question.
	Do you consider yourself a member of the alternative media?
	What do you think of the other members of the alternative media?
	Maybe who do you consider the rest to be players in that genre, so to speak?
	Yeah, I mean, I don't really consider what I do as news.
	But it is in a way.
	Well, I use news, I think, as reasonable ways to get people interested in philosophy.
	Right.
	And so people are interested in current events, so we'll talk about current events.
	But as we continually remind ourselves here at the show, if we can't bring philosophy into it, it's probably not worth doing.
	Okay.
	And so if I'm just going to go and aggregate a bunch of stuff that I find interesting from other news sources, but we can't sort of tie philosophy into it, we're not doing much of a service.
	And I do do that sometimes, and generally it doesn't work that well, and we have to remind ourselves of that.
	But I don't really consume other news sources.
	listen to so-and-so or so-and-so at any particularly regular basis.
	And so I don't really have a lot to say about...
	And the reason being that to validate somebody's news position is like a pretty big deal.
	I mean, you've got to go to the source.
	You've got to figure out where they're coming from and what are they using and what are they not using.
	And so I certainly trust the We try to do a good job with the research and all of that.
	But I wouldn't say that I say, well, I really trust this person or that person.
	I like some of the left-wing news outlets for foreign policy.
	I like some of the right-wing news outlets, not any in particular, just they use a bunch of different aggregates for domestic policy.
	But, you know, I don't think there's anyone to go and say, well, that person for sure, you know, whatever they say is gospel or whatever.
	So, I would sort of consider myself part of the alternative media in that the show's got a fairly good reach now, and it's certainly not mainstream, but I would not consider us primarily anything to do with news other than the gateway drug to philosophy.
	Okay, fair enough.
	And one other thing, if you have time, is I know you've talked much about the multicultural experiment, essentially, that is the Western world.
	And where do you...
	I guess, and maybe, where do you see it going in the short term or long term or how, you know, whatever you think of it?
	Because, you know, when I see things like Ebola and when I see the open borders, you know, down on the open southern borders of the United States, I see it, you know, it's almost like hastening the end of the experiment, like it's going to collapse on itself sooner rather than later.
	Yeah, look, I mean, Europe is already looking at Ebola and some people are saying, listen, this should have some impact on immigration.
	Right.
	And look, there are people who assimilate, and again, I'm just talking statistically.
	I don't have any sort of fundamental views on this that are philosophical.
	But from a sort of factual standpoint, there are groups that assimilate and there are groups that don't assimilate.
	Right.
	In general.
	I mean, obviously, there are individual exceptions and so on, right?
	But if you get, like, if Polish people move to America, within, like, two or three generations, who are they?
	Right.
	They're American.
	They're just Americans, right?
	Yeah.
	When other groups move to countries, they're just, they don't, right?
	right?
	They don't generally assimilate.
	Some of it has to do with racial lines.
	Some of it has to do with religious lines.
	Some of it has to do with cultural lines.
	But there are groups that assimilate and there are groups that don't assimilate.
	And when people talking about diversity, they're always and forever talking about race, in my experience.
	Like nobody says, oh, you know, we've got a group that's like, there's one guy from France.
	There's one guy from Germany.
	There's a guy from England.
	There's a guy from Czechoslovakia.
	And so it's really diverse.
	And what would people say?
	Yeah, you're right.
	They'd say, that's not diverse, because they're all white.
	Yeah, they're all white guys, even though they don't speak the same language, maybe they come from very different, I've got one Catholic white person, I've got one Protestant white person, so it's really diverse, and they'd say, well, no, it's not, right?
	And so diversity, when people are talking about multiculturalism and diversity, they're talking about multiracial and diverse races.
	Right.
	That's what, I mean, let's just at least be honest with what it is, because if you get a bunch of different white guys from different white countries, and they can be different white continents.
	We've got an Australian white guy, and a South African white guy, and a Norwegian white guy.
	I mean, they're from like us and the world.
	Right.
	And do people say, wow, that's really diverse.
	They don't.
	They say, but they're all white.
	So let's not pretend when we're talking about diversity, we're not talking about race.
	We are talking about, like, why multicultural?
	It's not multicultural.
	It's multiracial.
	It's not diversity.
	It's racial integration.
	Earlier today, like you said, I saw one of your videos from...
	I don't know, recently, and you said, you know, stop the racism.
	That was your whole point, because the people who call out the racism, they're actually the racist, you know?
	Yeah, so when people are talking about multiculturalism, they're saying, we need to look at the world through the lens of race.
	Right.
	Racial composition, racial mixing, racial quotas, racial proportions is absolutely how we need to look at the world.
	Right.
	Everything has to be fundamentally through the lens of race.
	It's not culture.
	It's race.
	And, you know, let's just at least be honest about that and say, listen, look, if you want to talk to me about viewing the world almost entirely through the lens of race, that's racism.
	Because this sort of promise of the I mean, that's just a complete lie because most people who are involved in multiculturalism and diversity, they're race-obsessed.
	Absolutely.
	They're absolutely race-obsessed.
	I don't want to live in a world where people are race-obsessed.
	No, you're right.
	There's lots of evidence that certain elements, and again, this is not common to everyone, but It's called, I don't know if you've ever heard, it's called like the lunchroom test, right?
	And the lunchroom test is get a bunch of different races together in the world.
	And, you know, like in school, get a bunch of different races together.
	And what you do is don't tell anyone where to sit, right?
	You let them sit where they want and they will self-segregate.
	I mean, listen, you've been in the army, right?
	I don't need to tell you any of this stuff.
	But, you know, for people who haven't been in these kinds of multicultural environments, what happens?
	Yeah, they self-segregate.
	Everybody self-segregates.
	Just like we do in clubs.
	Churches are not subject to racial quotas.
	90% of churches are 90% one race or the other.
	Whether this is right or wrong, I don't know and I don't care fundamentally because it's not a moral issue.
	Who do you choose to hang with?
	You choose to hang with people who look like yourself.
	That's the bottom line, I think.
	Well, I mean, so they've done experiments, right?
	And, you know, again, whether this is right or wrong, I'm sort of reserve judgment.
	But, you know, they've done experiments where they take massive amounts of, like, tens of thousands of bees.
	Now, bees are genetically related, right?
	And they're genetically related by hive.
	And they take tens of thousands of bees from, like, 12 different hives.
	And they put them in a giant airplane hangar.
	Okay.
	And do you know what happens?
	They self-segregate.
	They self-segregate.
	By genetics.
	Yeah, of course.
	They do.
	Listen, they've tried transposing plants.
	So if they get two plants that are unrelated and they put those two plants in the same pot, they fight like hell for resources.
	They'll try and choke each other's roots and they'll just fight like hell for resources, right?
	Yeah, the roots grow like crazy.
	But do you know if they take the same plant and clip it, So it's the same genetics, and they put those two plants from the same plant in the same bowl.
	Do you know what they do?
	They cooperate.
	Yeah.
	You know, there's an old saying from a 19th century geneticist who says, I would die for two of my brothers or eight of my cousins.
	Ha ha ha!
	And so the idea that we have a preference innately, which is common to the entire animal kingdom and the entire plant kingdom, you know, if it's common to plants, you might have a bit of a barrier if you want to overthrow it, right?
	Right.
	And so we have, as all living organisms, have developed because of kinship preferences for genetics.
	And everybody understands this with regards to family, right?
	Right.
	You know, when I said in the recent RAND presentation, when I say, hey...
	I would save my own daughter over the life of a stranger.
	Right?
	Of course.
	People aren't like, you bigot.
	Right?
	Because she's genetically mine.
	Yeah, but if you said you would save some random white guy over some random Asian guy, then you are a bad guy.
	Yeah, and I mean, I don't know if I would or wouldn't.
	But the reality is that we have evolved because of kinship genetic preferences.
	Right.
	That's what the entire basis of life is.
	Right.
	in churches, in school lunchrooms in neighborhoods you know like I always say to people if you're really really into diversity you can buy a house in Detroit for a dollar right if everybody is like wow I really want to go live in a black neighborhood or if whites were like I really want to go and live in a white neighborhood you can go and do that Yep.
	But there's a reason why that the house is in Detroit or a dollar.
	Right.
	And so I don't – and I don't really fundamentally care about the issue other than I don't want government involved.
	Right.
	You know, if – Because I think there's been this kind of weird thing that's gone on for like the past 40 or 50 years.
	And this weird thing is that generally, and this is again, I'm speaking incredible generalities here, but white Western Europeans have kind of given up kinship preference.
	Yep.
	And it's been this sort of unilateral disarmament.
	And so the idea, like, you know, you go to – in my university, there's like the Asian club, the Hispanic club, the black club, the, you know, like Tanzanian prostitute lesbian club.
	But imagine if somebody says, I want a white club.
	People would go insane.
	Yeah, even the white people because of white guilt.
	The white people go insane.
	So white people have generally said, okay, we're giving up the entire basis of evolution.
	We're giving up kinship preference completely and totally because we want a colorblind society.
	And I think that the whole hope was that everybody else would kind of follow suit, right?
	Honestly, I don't give most white people that much credit.
	I think there was this goal.
	I think there was this idea.
	We can bring everyone along, sure.
	We're going to give up our kinship preference or our race preference or whatever, which is we're going to give it up.
	And we're not only going to give it up, we're going to give advantages to other races, right?
	Right.
	And...
	You know, this unilateral disarmament that happened for sort of white kinship preference, you know, it didn't really...
	It wasn't much of a domino effect, was it?
	It's not like other groups have now given up their own kinship preferences.
	I mean, listen, everybody gets that when a black mayor gets elected, what's he supposed to do, right?
	He's supposed to help black people.
	Right.
	That's why they...
	I mean, not all do.
	Yeah, not all do.
	And, right, obviously, there's lots of diversity as far as that goes.
	But in general, that's kind of, you know, when a Hispanic mayor gets in power, he's not supposed to spend a lot of time helping Germans.
	Right.
	This is true.
	And one other thing, you know, again, if we have time, you can kick me off.
	It's your show.
	You got more stuff to get me in trouble for?
	No, I'd be happy to.
	Abortion!
	No, I'm kidding.
	No, one...
	Again, on one of your videos, and I caught just a part of it, and you mentioned that you, if I understood it right, you were in, what is it called, anarchism?
	You know, an anarchy?
	So, and I'm guessing that means, as I understand that term, it means, you know, basically stateless, basically a world without states, without governments.
	Sorry, just to be, like, saying that anarchy means a world without government is like saying that atheism means a world without government.
	Okay.
	Fair enough.
	So anarchy technically simply means without rulers, which means without people, without the power.
	Now, rulers can be parents.
	Rulers can be You know, physically aggressive teachers.
	Rulers can be gods.
	Rulers can be priests.
	Rulers can be politicians.
	Rulers can be muggers.
	It's without people to have the right to aggress against you coercively.
	That's the general.
	It means without rulers.
	And one of those rulers is obviously governments, but it's certainly not the only way it works.
	How would you see, you know, anarchism spread throughout the world?
	How do you see that?
	Through peaceful parenting would be the main goal.
	Okay.
	Speaking of that, and I've heard several of your videos going on about your anti-corporal punishment, and I actually independently came to the same conclusion when my daughter was just really small.
	I realized that, you know what, this is asinine.
	Corporal punishment is...
	Completely asinine.
	Now, unfortunately, and I don't think I've ever heard you point this out, from what I've seen in the world, is either people are completely on board with the corporate punishment, basically spanking and beating their children, or it's nothing.
	There is no structure at all.
	Right.
	And I guess my point is, You are absolutely correct about the whole corporal punishment thing, but I think the people who – most parents who have decided that corporal punishment is bad, they go completely some other direction where there is no structure for their children at all.
	Right, right.
	I think that's the other unfortunate part of – or the other unfortunate style of parenting.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, no, it's called – I mean, I call it unparenting.
	Right.
	Right.
	And that to me is – it's like saying I'm against fascism and therefore we should have a society without money.
	In other words, I'm against imposed values and therefore we should have no way of mediating or having values.
	To me, it's a form of nihilism rather than a form of philosophy.
	And so, yeah, some parents who say, well, listen, I'm not going to have corporal punishment with my children and I'm going to negotiate with them and so on.
	They then abandon the parental responsibility of imposing limits and helping children to grow up to be healthy and happy.
	Children work well within limits.
	We all do, right?
	I mean, if I believed that I was immune to gravity, I would injure myself pretty quickly.
	So, children work very well within limits.
	But limits are not abusive.
	Limits are healthy.
	I mean, the scientific community does not view the scientific method as abusive.
	It's a limit.
	This is how the discourse is shaped within the scientific community.
	We do the scientific method.
	We don't do chicken entrails.
	We don't do prayer.
	We don't do committee.
	We don't do government edict.
	We do the scientific method.
	And if you don't want to do that, that's fine.
	You're just not a scientist, right?
	So human beings work really well within structure.
	Reason is a structure.
	Mathematics, engineering is a structure.
	Right.
	Which we would not want a doctor who didn't have any idea how the body works.
	We wouldn't want an engineer who didn't have any idea what the tensile strength of steel was.
	Like, we just wouldn't...
	Like, go get some structure so you know what you're doing.
	We wouldn't want a guy building a car who didn't have any idea about thrust and momentum and fuel and anything like that.
	So, human beings work really well within structure because reality is structure.
	And so, for me, the parents who say, well, look, I'm not going to...
	I am neither going to spank my child for not brushing my teeth, nor am I going to make sure she brushes her teeth.
	It's like, dude, Aristotelian mean, somewhere in the middle.
	Don't just abandon all rules just because you don't want to impose them violently.
	They sort of reinforce this idea that anarchy is without rules.
	No, no.
	Anarchy is without rulers, which means you don't get to hit your children because then you're being a destructive and abusive controller and ruler.
	But anarchy is not without rules.
	Being without rules is not called being an anarchist.
	It's called being insane.
	Fair enough.
	Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
	The challenge for parents is your kids need to brush their teeth.
	Right.
	That's your challenge.
	And not grow up with problems, etc., etc.
	Yeah, and abandoning that.
	And saying, eh, fuck it.
	I'm not going to spank him so they don't have to brush their teeth.
	It's like, what?
	It's like saying, I'm not going to rape anyone, so the only choice I have left is to cut my penis off.
	It's like, I don't know.
	Yes, no rape, but no penis cutting is not...
	To me, it's a failure of...
	It's a failure of imagination, fundamentally.
	Look, my daughter needs to brush her teeth, and she needs to go to bed on time.
	I tried this one experiment.
	I tried it.
	I tried it.
	Wife was out of town.
	What did I do?
	Hey, let's see if you get tired.
	I'd like to know when you as child get tired.
	And who won?
	One o'clock in the morning, my child is vibrating like a tuning fork, climbing up the back of the couch, And I'm like, you know what?
	I'm sorry.
	I've got to pull the plug on this experiment because you could be out for four days and I'm 47.
	I can't do it.
	I can't do it.
	You win.
	You have a five-year-old metabolism and I'm a creaky old son of a bitch.
	So the challenge is, hey, you've got to brush your teeth.
	No, you can't eat too much sugar.
	Yeah, you've got to eat your vegetables.
	You've got to exercise sometimes.
	Yeah, I know.
	Computers are fun, but let's go out into the big blue room and meet the flesh people.
	And that's your challenge as a parent.
	And you don't get to use force.
	Yeah, good.
	You know, my challenge is, I like to eat, but I don't want to steal food.
	So I've got to find something else to do, right?
	I'm not going to steal food, and I'm not going to starve, right?
	And so the challenge, and the creativity of the world, and the productivity of the world comes out, I want stuff, and I'm not going to use force.
	I want to influence people, and I'm not going to use force.
	And so the question is, say, I've got to get my kid to bed on time.
	I've got to get her to brush her teeth.
	I've got to sleep and vegetables and good health and exercise and all that.
	And I'm not going to use force.
	That's the beginning of the conversation, which has a lot to do with parental creativity and explaining things and having diagrams.
	And here's how teeth work.
	And there are bugs.
	As someone told me, oh, there are bugs that dance on your teeth and they crack your teeth.
	And that's pretty vivid.
	I remember that, right?
	And so the challenge then is, well, how do I achieve my goals without using force?
	But giving up on the goals because you're not using force to me is crazy.
	Oh, you mean I can't beat my child?
	Then I have no way of influencing that child whatsoever.
	I'd throw up my hands completely.
	That to me is wrong and deeply harmful to the child.
	You are the parent.
	You have more knowledge.
	You have facts the child doesn't have.
	You have a capacity to look beyond the horizon of immediacy that your children don't have.
	You have the knowledge of what happens when you don't and do defer gratification.
	And you need to share that knowledge with your child and you need to find a way to get your child to listen without threats.
	Is it really that hard?
	I mean you and I have a good conversation.
	Neither of us to my knowledge have taken each other's children hostage.
	Right.
	No, and my thing is, you know, if I can do it, anybody can do it.
	Well, that sounds like a very not high self-esteem statement.
	Shoot, man, if I could do it, I'm sure a bonobo and a half could get her done.
	Actually, what I meant was, you know, I grew up in a house where it was, you know, a leather belt or a slap across the face.
	Wait, are you saying you...
	As a Marine, you grew up with corporal punishment?
	Yeah, my old man was a Marine.
	I finally met a soldier who grew up with corporal punishment.
	That wouldn't be anywhere in the South now, would it there, brother?
	No, nothing like that.
	Nothing like that.
	No sirreebub.
	Listen, man, we've got to move on to the next caller, but I really want to tell you, I mean, great chat.
	You are welcome anytime on the show.
	Really, really enjoyable chat, and I hope that you had as much fun as I did.
	I did.
	Thanks a lot, Steph.
	We'll see you later.
	Keep us posted about what happens in Germany.
	And look, if you need to talk about that, I mean, with me taking off the clown nose, just let us know, okay?
	I'll do that.
	Thanks a lot.
	All right.
	Thanks, man.
	All right.
	Thanks, John.
	Up next is Wes, for a call that has absolutely nothing to do with anything that's been talked about on this show.
	For a long time, I've always wanted a legacy.
	Shouldered my own to raise and teach values.
	I know that if my life were to end not having left a legacy, I would have regret.
	I'm 32 and conflicted between MGTOW philosophy, that's men going their own way philosophy, and the risky path of marriage slash...
	I don't know if I'm spelling out the letters.
	Men going their own way.
	I saw a guy downtown doing just that.
	He wasn't walking backwards, neither did he take to the sewers.
	Neither was he using Spider-Man rope.
	Anyway, go on.
	So you want to go a little bit more into that, just so people who don't know?
	Let me finish the question for him.
	He said, I have even considered surrogacy in being a single father.
	I want kids, but I don't want a wife.
	How can I move past this, and what are your thoughts on MGTOW philosophy?
	All right.
	Kind of bundling a little in there, my friend.
	Yeah, a little bit, a little bit.
	Last guy got away with it, so why not you?
	Well, first of all, let me ask you a question.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	How do you live in the most feminist city in the world outside of Sweden?
	Toronto.
	Cross-legged, I would assume, right?
	Yeah, I would assume Toronto.
	No, I mean, I, you know, I don't, I mean, there are people who do the Samba in the city, that doesn't mean I do the Samba, right?
	I mean, there are, you know, I just, I don't hang with those people, right?
	The city be damned, right?
	It's my circle that counts.
	It just has a reputation, at least from what I see on the internet, like, you know, the protesting of Warren Farrell and stuff like that.
	Big Red, it's from there, that kind of thing.
	Right, right.
	Yeah.
	No, it's, you know, I mean, they just do their nutty stuff and I do my stuff that I'm sure they think is nutty too.
	So just, you know, they have a few more bomb threats than I do.
	Another thing, I'm glad that Freedom Aid Radio is a male safe space or a sausage fest, as you could say.
	Yeah, I'm saying that jokingly.
	I was at a meetup and not less than three of the guys there were like, wow, there's no women here.
	And yeah, so that was kind of...
	It's like they've never seen The Crying Game, you know?
	Just jump to assumptions.
	Anyway.
	Never seen that movie, actually.
	Get ready to scream.
	Let me just give you a clue.
	Boy George sings the title song.
	But anyway, go on with your question.
	So, look, first, like, sorry, just before we get to that, I don't think single dads are a huge step up, if any, from single moms.
	Right?
	And, you know, in the name of, I think, reasonable gender equality, I think Saying, you know, well, what if I just become a single dad?
	I don't think that's good for kids either.
	So, to me, it's kind of, you know, find a woman that you can have a kid with and that's the best.
	I don't know if there's a plan B that I think is good for kids.
	And I don't know because, I mean, I've mostly studied the single mom stuff because it's like 98% of single parents are single moms.
	And, you know, again, just to be clear, this doesn't mean being, like, widowed or something.
	They're called widows.
	Single moms are women who choose to be a single because the husband is still alive or the father.
	They either get divorced or whatever.
	They don't single moms, like, in the way that people think.
	But so I don't, you know, I don't think it's a good idea to become a parent if you're a single parent, whether you're a man or a woman.
	But, you know, that's probably not going to mean much to you.
	But that's sort of the reality of my thoughts on the matter.
	I don't think that this magical single parent has penis, therefore single parent statistics don't apply.
	It's just that there's not that much studied because very few men are single parents by choice, at least compared to women.
	So, yeah, so my suggestion would be I don't think surrogacy is a great idea because I think that you're just going to be a parent who has no resources for the kid, right?
	I mean, unless you're, like, independently wealthy and can stay home, you know, God, it's – You know, I mean, as a dad, I mean, it's crazy, crazy amounts of time that you need to spend as a parent with your kid.
	So if you don't have somebody else, the quality of the kid's parenting is absolutely and completely going to decline.
	There's just almost no way around that.
	So I don't think – I wouldn't put – and I think a plan B might weaken your sort of resolve to – I'm about to inherit a million dollars.
	I'm not going to go look for work.
	So if you have something called surrogacy in the back of your pocket, I think it may cut back your capacity or drive to look for a suitable woman if you want kids.
	But I think or if you are willing to swing both ways, get a boyfriend.
	I don't know.
	But I think kids need two parents.
	And I know that some of the big town guys are like, well, I want to have kids and But, you know, then God, you know, just keep coming and find a woman who's great.
	You know, they're out there.
	Let me interject there.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	You know, you found your unicorn.
	It's great.
	You talk the world over because I'm very sure you love her.
	But you acknowledge that, you know, you say no Walt, but there's the other side of things, the Aspawalt.
	The what?
	A statistically significant percentage of women are like that.
	Would be a little bit more accurate.
	Or like what?
	Oh, like that.
	Well, let's just – if you want to go in more depth, we can, but let's just say crazy, rational, selfish, domineering.
	I don't know.
	Again, I wouldn't say that they're irrational.
	Okay.
	We won't go that far.
	But through rational observation – Listening to you, engaging in red pill ideology, which the reason I'm talking to you is because I think you're one of the few people, public voices, that are actually able to understand a lot of the concepts and have actually put them into your speaking.
	So that's why I'm bringing this to you.
	I mean, I've come to the point where The risk, just like the last caller, which I'm glad that he actually went first to bring it up.
	He thought, yeah, there were red flags that he acknowledged, but he thought he was making the right decision.
	But at the end, now he's got to deal with it.
	No, no, no.
	He said that very clearly.
	He wasn't thinking.
	Red flags all over the place.
	And the woman's dad said, don't marry her.
	She's selfish.
	She's born on the coldest day of the year.
	He was not thinking.
	Right.
	No, that's an important distinction because my point is, as I said, if you're looking for a needle in a haystack, know the difference between the needle and the hay.
	And that's why I keep saying there's very efficient ways to find out if someone you're living with is quality or not.
	See, the thing is I've lost the desire to even look at this point.
	So that's why I'm considering the whole MGTOW life to solve them.
	And it comes from a lot of rational thinking about, well, for one, I don't want to put myself at risk of losing my children if I have them.
	And another, I don't want to have especially the state having that much more power over me, or rather, a woman having that much more power over me by the state.
	And they're completely entitled to do that in today's society.
	So, yeah, I could find that unicorn.
	Yeah, I could not think and You know, make a bad decision.
	I mean, that's what men have been known to do.
	But that's just a nightmare for me.
	And even if it's a small risk, I mean, it's a huge, huge downfall if that were to happen.
	And I just don't want to put myself at that kind of risk.
	No, and look, I hugely appreciate that.
	And I genuinely respect you for that kind of forward thinking.
	So I know that we're sort of marching into red pill territory, so do you mind if we just sort of circle back and explain some of what you're talking about to people who are less familiar?
	Sure.
	What topic?
	Let me ask you that.
	Would you even call it a philosophy, or is it more of an ideology?
	Because it does have certain principles, but they're not, like, moral, I guess you could say.
	Yeah, perspective.
	I mean, I think that there's empiricism in it.
	Which is, you know, men look around and see the smoking craters of their own father's lives.
	They look around and see the smoking craters of their friends and their brother's lives.
	They, you know, this is, we are, you sound like a young guy, right?
	So, you're second generation after feminism, right?
	Are you in your 20s?
	32.
	32, okay.
	So, you were born in like, what, 82?
	82, yeah.
	82, right.
	Okay, so I was first generation feminism victim, which is the massive destruction of the family that occurred in the late 60s and in the 70s, where divorces went up like 300% and you've got these single mom welfare state farms and so on.
	And This came about to a large degree because of feminism, but everyone focuses on the ideology and nobody focuses on the practical reality of why the hell it happened, which was that the welfare state came in.
	When the welfare state came in, two things happened.
	A, women got a bunch of government jobs and women are much more likely to work for the government than they are to work for the private sector.
	They got job security.
	They got lots of benefits and so on.
	And for those who didn't have those jobs, there was the welfare state.
	So with the growth of the welfare state and the growth of the government gets a bunch of government jobs which lot to go to women and all that.
	So the first wave was like, holy crap.
	I saw what happened to my dad.
	I mean, my parents divorced.
	I was born in 66 and I don't think I was six months old or eight months old.
	So they divorced in 67, I think.
	And it was brutal.
	And, I mean, it kept being brutal.
	I don't want to get into any particular details because it's a long and involved story, but it kept being brutal for a very, very long time.
	Yeah, I mean, I've listened to your videos in depth for past years.
	I mean, read the book about Alec Baldwin's divorce from Kim Basinger.
	Alec Baldwin says this about divorce, and I'm paraphrasing, but he says, It's like being chained to a truck and dragged along a dirt road.
	It goes on as long as they want it to go on, and it only stops when they run out of gas.
	Yeah, so why would men subject themselves to this?
	I mean, kids, obviously.
	But rationally to me, it just seems like, yeah, you could find true love.
	I used to believe that.
	I used to have that fairytale fantasy that I was going to grow up and find somebody that was going to be perfect for me and I was going to be in love and stay with them and have a kid and family and all that kind of stuff.
	But the more, like you said, train wrecks that you see in friends and family and things like that, especially in my own family, I just, I'm completely turned off by the concept.
	You know, I've always, as a guy, been like, oh, I'm never going to get there.
	But as I've gotten more, you know, thinking about it more and more, it just doesn't make sense.
	Look, I mean, the risk-rewards, if you're not certain of the woman's virtue, the risk-rewards are, to put it mildly, not in a man's favor, and I would argue psychologically suicidal.
	Because...
	If the woman turns on you, you are completely fucked.
	Like, she has a grenade tied to your nuts.
	And that's not even a great metaphor, because at least with a grenade, it's over.
	Right?
	So, if the woman turns on you, for whatever reason, and you have kids, particularly if you've been any kind of provider, and certainly, like I say, someone's got to be home, at least that's my argument.
	And, you know, ideally it's the woman, because she's got the feeding bags.
	And so if you've been a provider and the woman decides to leave you and decides to go nuclear on your ass, your life is completely fucked for an indefinite amount of time.
	And, you know, suicidality, stress ailments and so on all go through the roof.
	Your kids could be ripped from you.
	You could be subject to false allegations because the lawyers are just interested in making money, fundamentally.
	That's their incentive.
	It's not like there aren't any good lawyers, but it's like there are some nice cops and good bureaucrats, but the system itself is designed in a completely different way.
	And the amount of power a woman has through the government to harm a man, as you say, is truly staggering.
	And until, you know, you've seen how it works, particularly America, and what happens, it sounds like a nightmare horror movie.
	And so, yeah, I mean, you can watch Divorce Corps, C-O-R-P, for more on this, and you can sit and read Alec Baldwin's got a very interesting book, a terrifying book about his divorce from Kim Basinger, and you're helpless.
	I mean, this is a guy, he's rich, he's famous, he's highly successful, and, I mean, his life was just destroyed for years.
	William Hurt, a fine actor, also had one of these divorces that just was brutal and endless and vile.
	And the Galt's Gulch is bachelorhood, right?
	I mean, this is what going Galt really means, is that it's not to do with the economy, it's to do with women.
	Right.
	I mean, that's one of the things in terms of, you know...
	Anarchy is putting myself...
	I can't change the world, but I can put myself in a position to minimize my tax burden into the state or to a woman, to be their utility.
	I mean, that's basically what MGTOW philosophy means to me, is removing yourself from being that provider male and just doing what you want to do for self-actualization.
	So that's what it means to me.
	And that to me is very appealing, but it leaves me without the kids, the family, the legacy.
	I want to teach values to my kids and, you know, raise them, be in their lives and that sort of thing.
	And be parents that, you know, I didn't have to them.
	You know, all those things that, you know, some people want, so...
	Yeah.
	Yeah, now of course, I mean, if you do have kids...
	Through a surrogacy or something like that.
	I mean, if you have a son, then you're basically going to be teaching him to not get married, I would assume, right?
	Assuming nothing changes.
	And look, nothing's going to change.
	I mean, I think in Florida, if I remember rightly, it's off the top of my head, but in Florida some time back, they tried to get a law passed which basically just said, look, custody is just split.
	Custody is just split unless there's like Crazy stuff going on in the household.
	50-50.
	That's it.
	And feminist organizations and now, they went insane.
	Because the whole child support alimony gravy train was threatened.
	And so, look, things aren't going to change anytime soon when it comes to the divorce thing.
	I know that some MGTOWs are like, well, you know, we're going to keep not getting engaged with women until such time as women begin to put pressure on the political system and so on.
	Don't hold your breath, right?
	I think it's multi-generational change.
	So, if you're going to raise a boy, are you going to teach him to not date women?
	Is that right?
	No, I still date.
	It's just that...
	I haven't really come to the final conclusion of that.
	That's what I want to talk to you about, get your take on it and that sort of thing.
	I'm at that crossroads where I need to make a decision because if, say, I had – say I want to have grandkids or I want to spend time with them, for instance.
	If they wait as long as I did, there's a good chance that you get, what, two or three years in your 80s or whatever.
	So I want to make that decision.
	I'm talking to the wrong guy about that, but yeah.
	I know what you mean.
	But yeah, I want to make a timely decision.
	I know that you had your daughter when you were – how old was it?
	43.
	43.
	Okay.
	So men can wait much longer than women can.
	So, I mean, I'm comfortable with that.
	The grandkids thing is an issue, right?
	I certainly think about that, you know?
	Yeah.
	It's not like we're in some neighborhoods in America, the average age of a grandmother is 32.
	That sure ain't our situation.
	Right.
	And, you know, one of the holdups that I have is I just don't trust women at all.
	And, you know, I just can't imagine putting myself in a position where they would have, you know, that kind of power over me.
	It just, like I said, it's a nightmare.
	Yeah.
	Oh no, it is.
	Absolutely.
	If you end up with some sort of borderline or crazy woman combined with the court system and the police, I mean, oh yeah, no, you are literally going to be in hell for an indefinite amount of time.
	And nothing, you know, of course, I can imagine nothing rips either parent's heart more than not having access to kids.
	And it's just unbelievable.
	There is something that I've sort of seen and experienced.
	I've talked about this before.
	Women have the capacity to hold on to anger in a way that men generally don't.
	I'm not sure exactly why that is, but it certainly does seem to be the case.
	I think it has something to do with male roughhousing.
	When I was a kid, I'd get into roughhousing with other kids, other boys generally, roughhousing with girls often.
	But so you get into roughhousing and you, you know, or you play fight or whatever.
	And then when it was over, what did you do?
	Your friends, if you're a guy.
	I mean...
	Yeah, you know, you're like, hey, you know, you pour heart and soul into competitive sports.
	You want to win at tennis, you want to win at soccer, you want to win.
	And, you know, if you lose and you're a dick, then you're a bad loser.
	And that's like negative, right?
	So one of the things that men learn is you can be enemies...
	In the moment, but that doesn't mean that you have to be enemies forever.
	Not enemies.
	You can be competitors in the moment, but that doesn't mean that you have...
	Your interest can be opposing in the moment, but that doesn't mean you have to be enemies afterwards.
	I think that men, in the way that we grow up, we learn how to be fierce and then still be friends.
	Was that your experience or was that more particular to me?
	Oh yeah.
	I've studied masculinity in depth to figure out You know, my own manhood and that's absolutely, I agree with that.
	Men and women are fundamentally different in a lot of ways and that's one particular one.
	And this grudge holding stuff to me is really fundamental and I don't know whether it's got something to do with biology or genetics or brain or whatever it is but, you know, when women don't seem to have this, our interests are opposed but we can still be friends.
	And I don't sort of mean fundamental moral interest, you know, sort of the against me argument or whatever, but women seem like when women turn, they don't seem to turn back.
	Oh yeah, when a woman has lost love for you, you don't exist.
	Well, you do exist.
	Well, if there's something she can get out of you, yes, but...
	Yeah, I mean, if you're a resource bomb that she can set off.
	And this is an old saying, right?
	Hell itself hath no fury like a woman scorned.
	Like a woman whose interests have been negated or a woman who feels hard done by, hell hath no fury.
	In other words, it's actually worse than demonic.
	It's worse than the devil itself.
	And I think there's some truth in that, and it's certainly not true for all women.
	But I have been remarkably surprised at the degree to which, when I was younger, If a relationship didn't work out, I was always really kind of surprised at the degree to which I simply became an un-person.
	I was also quite surprised at the degree to which women could move on.
	In my experience, again, it's not scientific, men have more difficulty moving on.
	I think they get more attached.
	I think women are...
	This hypergamy thing, right?
	That women are constantly looking for opportunities for more resources and therefore you don't get that attached.
	It's like house flipping.
	You decorate it only to upgrade, right?
	Right.
	So it is a tough bind.
	Look, am I going to tell you don't have kids?
	I mean, I don't have any power to tell you that.
	I don't have any authority and I don't even know if that's what I think.
	Ideally, It would be great to have a partner.
	Is it worse if you don't have a partner but you're a really good person?
	Well, you, if you fit that standard, and it sounds to me like you do, you're a thoughtful, intelligent, forward-thinking, careful guy.
	I got to think there are about 98% of hetero parents on the planet who would not be as concerned and thoughtful as you, as a single parent.
	If that makes sense.
	Right.
	So it's the thoughtfulness rather than the two-parent thing, I think, that means the most, in my opinion, right?
	So if you can find a way to get enough resources to at least be really present in the kid's life for the first couple of years, you'll do a lot more good than a lot of hetero parents who are Bad parents and spankers and drop their kids at daycare at the age of seven hours and stuff like that, right?
	Right.
	Well, I mean, I hear you talk about, you know, your experiences and finding that unicorn.
	And there's that little small bit of blue pill, which is opposed to red pill, belief in me left that still wants to, you know, find that person to have that partnership with.
	I can't quite kill it, as they would say.
	Well, because it's not impossible.
	She's not a unicorn.
	She's a real human being.
	We're never getting divorced.
	We are never going to fall out of love with each other.
	And people like, you know, oh, yeah, you tell me.
	And it's like, oh, come on.
	You know, people have always been telling me this my whole life.
	Oh, you wait until you find out.
	It's like, no, no, no, this is bullshit.
	Now I'm 48 years old.
	I can just tell people like that to fuck off.
	You're idiots.
	You're just fear mongers.
	Get lost.
	We're never getting divorced.
	I'm not cursing myself.
	It's not going to happen next year.
	It's not going to happen 10 years from now.
	We are going to fucking die together.
	That's awesome.
	I'm glad you didn't say that.
	So what I mean is that it's possible, and so you can't kill it because it's a possibility.
	I think I'm going to stand in my own way in that place, though.
	What do you mean?
	Oh, you mean you want to kill it, even though it's a possibility.
	No, no, no, no, no, no.
	I mean, I think I'm standing in my own way of that, in a distrust of women.
	And...
	I kind of would like to delve into one of your favorite topics to talk about and see what you think about it, like where I'm coming from from my childhood.
	Okay, and I want to do that, but just before we do that, if you don't mind, and you can abandon this if you want, but if you don't trust women, are you only dating them for sex?
	Right now, yes.
	And that's up front?
	You're like, I don't like women, I don't trust women, but...
	I don't walk up and say, hey, what's up?
	No, no, but I mean, you don't get into relationships without telling the woman that you're not even remotely interested in a long-term relationship.
	In fact, it would go counter to your whole approach to life, but you like sex.
	I don't say that literally because that would be counterproductive.
	But I don't...
	So wait, wait, wait.
	So hang on, hang on.
	So aren't you then manipulating?
	No, because I don't give any inclinations that I'm going to...
	This is going to go to marriage or have kids.
	I really haven't...
	Oh, no, no, no, no.
	Come on, come on, man.
	Don't give me the...
	I'm not lying directly, right?
	Because if you have a problem with women being manipulative and usurious, using men for resources...
	By falsifying their intentions or by not being completely direct, how is this gun not going off in your face?
	If the topic comes up, I address it.
	If they try to push for marriage, I tell them, nope, that's not something I'm interested in.
	And that has definitely...
	No, no, dude, dude, come on, come on, come on, come on.
	Do you really think that that's as honest as you should be?
	If the topic comes up?
	Well, at what point should I be bringing it up then?
	Well, I mean, if you want to, I mean, be honest, right?
	You want women to be honest, right?
	If you're honest, you say, listen, I want to go on a date.
	I have no interest in marriage or any kind of long-term relationship.
	We're never going to live together.
	I don't really trust women, but I do like to have sex.
	Well, let me back up a little bit then.
	I mean, in the past...
	I lived in that fantasy world where I would speak to my beliefs about marriage and things like that.
	And that would actually serve as a turnoff.
	Like, I did all the...
	Sorry, what was said as a turn-off?
	If you said, I just want to use you for sex even though I don't like you?
	No, no, no.
	Let's go back a little bit, okay?
	In my 20s, I was living the, I want to have a family, I want to have a career, I want to be a good provider, I want to do all this stuff I didn't know could be risky.
	And I would find myself getting very attached to the women, telling them that I love them and things such as that.
	And that would actually push them away.
	And so I just stopped bringing it up.
	What I find is that we can go out and have fun.
	The topic of marriage doesn't come up for weeks and months.
	I'm not going to bring it to the table because it's never been a positive thing to bring up in a conversation in my life.
	So you're getting what you want by omitting a crucial fact from women?
	If they say that what they're wanting is a marriage, then it pretty much ends.
	I'm not stringing along, it's like, oh yeah, I'm going to marry you, we'll give you a ring.
	No.
	No, I get that.
	I get that.
	I get that.
	Listen, if you were the woman, would you like to know that ahead of time?
	Depends on the woman.
	If you were a woman, would you like to be told the truth before getting involved?
	Again, it depends on the woman.
	No, no, let me put it to you this way.
	I'm selling you a car.
	I know that the transmission is fucked, right?
	Or are you assuming that all...
	No, no, no.
	Let me finish.
	Let me finish.
	I know the transmission is fucked.
	Right?
	And I sell you the car.
	You drive it.
	And a couple of weeks later, the transmission gives out.
	Right?
	And you say to me, what's up with this?
	I said, oh yeah, I know the transmission was fucked.
	And you say, well, why didn't you tell me that?
	I said, well, you didn't ask.
	You didn't bring it up.
	I had this piece of information.
	You didn't.
	You didn't ask me about the transmission in particular.
	If you had asked me, oh, I'd have told you.
	Now, am I being an honest guy?
	No, because they came to you wanting a full working car.
	But the women that I'm dating, perhaps they don't want a husband.
	How old are the women that you're dating?
	Anywhere from their 20s up until their 40s.
	Alright, so you're dating women at the tail end of their reproductive cycle.
	Sometimes.
	Sometimes.
	Okay.
	Well, no.
	I mean, late 20s, fertility is already starting to decline, and any woman with any brains in her late 20s has got to be thinking about kids if she wants them and how to cap it, right?
	Right.
	I agree with that.
	Okay.
	So you're not dating like 19-year-olds, right?
	You're not like Paul Walker's reincarnated creepy ghost, right?
	So you are dating women at the tail end of their reproductive cycle, or when kids is foremost in their mind, You have no intention of having children with them, right?
	Well, it depends on the woman.
	I recently was dating a woman that I thought would be great.
	You just told me you have no intention of getting married to a woman.
	I didn't say I had no intention.
	I said I was at a crossroads because I'm having trouble deciding, okay, is it worth the risk to get married?
	I still have that fantasy in my head, okay?
	Get me on that.
	But all the logic and all the rationalization...
	Hang on, hang on.
	It feels like me like...
	I'm just getting not straight stories here.
	And I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just genuinely confused.
	Okay, what can I do to help you?
	You date for sex.
	I thought you said you have no intention of marrying these women, and if marriage comes up, it's over.
	No, earlier I said...
	I have that fantasy I've had all my life, but as I've gotten older and had experiences and given a lot of critical thought to the risk associated with that, I've become very adverse to it.
	At this point, I'm at a crossroads.
	Do I go the MGTOW lifestyle or do I still try to keep looking for that unicorn?
	Okay, but you said if it comes up weeks or months later, so you're saying it takes you weeks or months to find out if a woman is someone you really want to spend a lot of time with or maybe even marry?
	Absolutely.
	I'd hope you spend a lot of due diligence time.
	Okay, now if I could speed that process up for you, would that change the equation?
	How so?
	Well, if you say that you're looking for a particular kind of woman, and right now it takes you weeks or months to find out if she's that kind of woman, if I could speed that process up for you.
	Wouldn't that make it more efficient and up your chances of finding what you call the unicorn?
	Oh, yeah.
	So, relentless honesty is what happens.
	If you want to find a woman that you want to marry, then you want to find a woman who is interested, enthusiastic about, and accepts who you are, right?
	If you hide who you are, that's like flying a plane blindfolded.
	You can't see the instruments.
	You can't see the ground.
	So you're hiding who you are from women and then saying, well, I'm having trouble finding a woman to really connect with.
	So on your first date, the speech could go something like this.
	I find you attractive.
	I really do.
	I think you're smart, you're funny, you're engaging, you're whatever, right?
	But let me tell you, I'm going to tell you in all seriousness, I'm 32.
	I'm not a kid anymore.
	I'm not a teenager and my penis is not my plaything.
	So I really want to have kids.
	I actually really want to get married, but I'm terrified.
	This is what I've seen.
	What's your experience and what are your thoughts about the pitfalls and perils and possibilities of modern marriage?
	I mean, 50% of them end in divorce.
	70% plus of those divorces are initiated by women.
	Divorce costs minimum $20,000.
	False accusations run rampant.
	It's, you know, from a male perspective, this is terrifying stuff.
	But I really want to have a kid.
	And I also don't want to have a kid alone.
	I want to have a kid with a woman.
	You know, what are your thoughts?
	What's your experience been?
	What's your approach?
	Can you imagine having that kind of conversation with a woman?
	Not in her having a second date.
	Good!
	Perfect!
	I have just saved you weeks and months.
	Look at that.
	How efficient can you be?
	You're welcome.
	I have just basically put you back to about the age of 24 when it comes to dating.
	Because now you don't have to waste weeks and months trying to find out if the woman is this, that or the other.
	You're honest and forthright up front.
	First date we go on.
	What does my wife say?
	I'm not interested in a player.
	I'm interested in getting married and having kids.
	I'm not saying that you have to do this tomorrow, but that's what I'm interested in.
	What are your thoughts?
	So she said that to you.
	Yeah.
	Respect.
	Respect.
	Be who you are.
	Be honest.
	Don't complain about women being manipulative and then be dishonest with women.
	Be honest.
	Be upfront.
	Do you not think that women are afraid of divorce?
	Women aren't all these sort of vampiric monsters just looking to suck men dry.
	Most women, I'm going to say most women, a lot of women are pretty damn happy if a marriage works out.
	They don't wake up saying, I want to get divorced.
	They don't wake up saying, I sure can't wait to get into an ugly battle with my husband using lawyers.
	I mean, yeah, they're crazy women, crazy men too, right?
	But if you want to be efficient, my friend, if you want to find a woman quickly, be as honest with her as you are with me.
	Why not?
	If you don't get a second date out of that, guess what?
	I just saved you months of your life.
	And you get to be a grandfather because you keep moving and you keep moving.
	And when you get that woman who says to you, I am incredibly refreshed by what you just said.
	That is the most honest thing I've ever heard on a first date.
	I'm intrigued.
	You have just opened your heart to me.
	You've been direct.
	You've been honest.
	And I'm getting a sense of how a relationship with you could be like.
	Right now, you're just an asshole hiding a bad transmission when it comes to women.
	And because you are manipulating and because you are withholding and because you are controlling the other person by falsifying who you are, you are not attracting quality women.
	Any woman with any insight is going to look at you and say, this son of a bitch is hiding something.
	And I don't even know what it is, and frankly, I don't even care to know.
	Move on.
	But if you are honest, if you want to lasso the unicorn, real-time relationships, baby.
	Be honest.
	Be open.
	Be direct.
	Say what's on your mind.
	Say what's in your heart.
	And if you're rejected for that, at least you're rejected for who you are.
	There's nothing worse than being rejected for who you're not.
	You know, like if you...
	If you pretend that you made a painting that you didn't, and that gets rejected, that's even worse.
	At least be rejected for the paintings you've made.
	So my question is, this is obvious when I'm saying it to you, right?
	I'm not saying you agree with it at all, but at least the perspective is obvious, right?
	No, actually, you're spot on.
	Okay, so why has this not even crossed your mind?
	And I don't mean this accusatory because you wanted to talk about your childhood and all, right?
	Which I think is fine.
	I think it's useful.
	But the idea of being direct and honest with a woman.
	You know, like, I don't know if you listen to Sandman?
	Yeah.
	Okay, so Sandman talks about these, what, two multi-year relationships, right?
	That he was in.
	Where the women were incredibly lazy, self-centered, uncurious about who he was.
	And it's like, dude, Years?
	Are you kidding me?
	We've all been there.
	I mean, I shouldn't say we've all been there.
	I've certainly been there.
	I mean, I get that.
	I was just talking about this earlier.
	But if you say, well, I've got to be in this thing for years before I find out whether the other person is honest or not or authentic or not or true or not, well, then, of course, it's disastrous.
	It's like saying, well, I don't know if I like the army, so I'll sign up for 10 years.
	Ooh, okay.
	If I don't like it, I'm in for 10 years, right?
	But if you have a way of genuinely connecting with someone or not, first date.
	You don't even have to go on a date.
	First conversation.
	You know, romance only is supposed to be mysterious because people want to get away with stuff.
	Like the smoke bomb.
	Because you want to camouflage.
	You want to get away with something.
	True romance, true love.
	Well, this is what I want and this is what I'm terrified of.
	My wife said to me, I don't want a player.
	I'm interested in marriage and kids.
	And I said, I don't know.
	I'm not opposed to marriage and kids.
	But my parents had a horrible divorce.
	And most of my friends' parents had horrible divorces.
	Now, I have seen one or two families that I thought were good.
	So, I'm not saying it's impossible.
	I'm skeptical.
	She's like, yeah, we can work with that.
	Right?
	We keep talking about it, right?
	So, you've got this idea that you can find love by hiding yourself.
	And you know, when I put it that way, it makes no sense, right?
	No, actually, you make a lot of sense.
	So, what happens and what is so hard for you from your childhood is And look, man, I sympathize.
	Like, I'm not, you understand, I'm not coming from some, well, I've never lied, and I can't imagine why you, I get it.
	I mean, I was punished for honesty by women as a child.
	Same.
	Right?
	I mean, I was honest with my mom.
	Mom, I don't want to talk about your dating life.
	You ungrateful little, you know, I work and I like, okay, fuck, okay, so don't be honest with women.
	Got a female teacher.
	I'm bored.
	Right?
	Ruler to the knuckle.
	Yeah.
	I mean, how much capacity did you have for directness and honesty in your young life with women?
	None.
	It's all these jokes that men make, you know?
	Does this dress make me look fat?
	Have I gained weight and men are like, oh, I don't know.
	All these comedians make these stupid jokes.
	And these are stupid jokes about this stuff, right?
	Like, how do you tell the truth to a woman without getting in trouble?
	You can't.
	It's a trap, right?
	But don't let narcissistic, abusive women cut you off from the capacity to connect with a good woman.
	That's letting the bad chicks win, right?
	Yeah, I agree.
	But that's where it comes from.
	Okay, so what's your history with honesty in women?
	Well, first of all, you can give anything you want to be straight.
	I'm not going to get offended or anything by it.
	That's why I want to talk to you.
	Because you're straight.
	You're direct.
	I appreciate that.
	I respect that.
	I'm straight, but I did go to theater school.
	Go ahead.
	And I take responsibility for my actions.
	So when you're critical of things you read and to what I say, no, I'll take that criticism and I'll own up to it.
	And that's part of what I'm trying to get to.
	I'm trying to get to the root of things so I can understand why am I doing these things?
	Why do I feel like this is the way I'm supposed to conduct myself?
	You understand?
	So...
	I still wear a mask to my family now.
	Everyone in my family does.
	We still have to.
	I think in one of your podcasts or something you said, was it ask somebody how much they know about you to know how much they love you?
	Yeah.
	I could pick one of my friends.
	If I were to have some kind of ceremony or funeral or something good, My mom would be the last person that could speak to me.
	She doesn't know anything about me.
	and she calls me every day.
	She's never been a real positive thing in my life, I guess you could say.
	And having to put up that mask with her all my life is probably why I do it now.
	What's the price of not wearing the mask?
	Well, there's really no price because it's just...
	Oh, no, no, no!
	Come on!
	Let me explain.
	There's no price because if I drop the mask...
	It's a hobby!
	No, if I drop the mask and try to have a conversation, I'm ignored.
	No, no, no.
	Come on.
	I'm a square peg.
	Come on.
	What happens if you tell your mom...
	Like when you were a kid, right?
	So what happens if you say to your mom...
	I'm not interested in what you're saying.
	I find this conversation boring.
	How come you never ask about me?
	The things that troubled you when you were a kid.
	What do you mean?
	What happened if you were to say something like that when you were a kid to your mom?
	I don't feel like you even know me.
	You never ask me any questions about myself.
	You don't know my favorite bands or my favorite songs or my favorite books.
	How come you never ask me about myself?
	It feels lonely.
	You know, only later, like in very recent times, have I asked her, like, what do you really know about me?
	And she's just like, well, she doesn't have anything to say to that.
	I've never really been asked those things.
	Okay, if you were to do that as a child, what would have happened?
	Um...
	It's the most natural thing in the...
	Sorry to interrupt.
	It's the most natural thing in the world to do when you're a child and you're bored to say what?
	I'm bored.
	Right.
	My daughter says this, like, three or four times a day.
	I'm talking about something with her and she says, actually, Daddy, I'm bored of this topic.
	Can we talk about something else or do something else?
	No, we didn't talk about those kind of things.
	We didn't have conversations.
	No, no, but my point is it's natural.
	It's entirely natural for children to be honest.
	The amount of airstrikes that need to be called in to destroy a child's cathedral of honesty is like solar in strength.
	Right?
	So my question then is why...
	Was it not possible for you to be naturally honest with your mom?
	What would be the negative consequences of you being honest with your mom when you were a child?
	Just being told that's not the way I'm supposed to be, perhaps.
	What if you persisted?
	I don't think I ever really persisted.
	Okay, what if you persisted?
	That's my point.
	Because this is the barrier with you and women now, right?
	You can't be honest.
	Okay, yeah.
	So you persist and say, wait mom, do you want me to lie?
	Like if I have a thought, do you want me to hide it from you and do you want me to lie about it?
	I just never get asked my thoughts.
	Right.
	Never.
	So then you just don't have any practice.
	So for you, honesty with a woman is like, hey, let's break into Japanese here, right?
	Yeah.
	You're like, I'm sorry I don't speak that language, right?
	Correct.
	Okay, so you have no or little experience in honesty with women.
	And as you say with me, like I'm honest with you and I think you're certainly being honest with me and I appreciate that and respect you for it.
	So we can have this conversation and we can part amicably, right?
	At the end of the conversation.
	Right, absolutely.
	But for you, you are white knighting women, which is odd for a MGTOW guy to be doing, right?
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	I would disagree with that.
	Okay, tell me, do you even know what I mean?
	Well, yeah, I need you to explain why you think that so I can respond.
	Because you're treating women as fragile and you're treating men as robust.
	Women can't handle the truth.
	You and I can have an honest conversation, but women, you know, you can't have an honest conversation with women.
	They're so fragile.
	Or volatile or whatever, right?
	Volatile.
	We'll go with that, yeah.
	Okay, so you are changing your behavior out of deference for women's weakness.
	Not their weakness.
	Volatility is a weakness.
	Irrationality, volatility, temper, anger, whatever.
	It's not a compliment, right?
	I'm actually just more afraid and distrustful of them.
	Okay.
	You're changing your behavior because of women's weakness or women's lack of virtue or whatever, right?
	You are adjusting your behavior to protect women from your honesty or, more accurately, from their reaction to your honesty.
	Okay.
	Right?
	Okay.
	Look, if you don't want a white knight, be honest with women.
	Treat them like they're not fragile, like they're not kryptonite, like they're not ticking World War II hand grenades.
	Be honest.
	And if women freak out, fuck them.
	And if they don't freak out, great.
	But if you adjust your behavior because of your negative view of women to accommodate their whatever, That's white knighting.
	It's lying to women to get sex.
	And it's saying, if I'm honest with a woman, she won't have sex.
	In other words, a woman's sexuality is fueled only by deception and manipulation on the part of a man.
	You can have a straight conversation with me.
	We can be direct.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	But you're like, well, I can't possibly have these standards with women.
	Now, you couldn't have these standards with your mom.
	I kind of get that, right?
	But if you want to stop white knighting, have the same standards for a conversation with a woman that you have with me.
	Trust me, not all men can talk at this level either, right?
	You know that, right?
	It's not like, well, I can have this conversation with any man but no women, right?
	So that would be my suggestion.
	If you want to have the best possible chance of having what you want, which is a great woman and a family life, you must, you must, you must be honest and direct with the woman the first time you're interested in asking her out.
	And don't even bother asking her out until you have this conversation.
	Say, look, we're not kids anymore.
	You know, we're in our 30s.
	We know that, you know, if you're interested in kids, but here's my perspective, right?
	I really want to have kids.
	I'm looking for a woman who's kind of rare.
	I'm sure since you're still single in your late 20s or early 30s or whatever, you're looking for a guy who's rare.
	Let's talk about what we're looking for.
	Let's talk about our fears.
	Let's talk about, God, get a woman to respond to that.
	I mean, you've got a lifetime of conversation that's going to be gripping.
	And if the woman is like, ah, honesty, run!
	It's like, hey, you know, thank you for saving me time.
	Good point.
	And then you can get.
	Everything that you want, which I think will also be best for your kid.
	I mean, look, you've heard me in conversations with women on this show, right?
	I don't think I'm wildly different with women.
	There's occasional adjustments, but for the most part, I'm pretty much the same with women as I am with men.
	I don't really try to pull any punches with either gender, right?
	Right.
	No, you're fair and balanced too.
	And do the women all just freak out and get hysterical and cry, right?
	No.
	Not that I've heard.
	Yeah, so they're out there.
	Look, everybody appreciates a truth teller in the long run.
	Almost everybody, right?
	I mean, just be that person up front.
	There's nothing more efficient than honesty.
	Nothing more efficient than openness and nothing more powerful than vulnerability.
	There is nothing more powerful than vulnerability.
	Because vulnerability reveals everyone in your life who will abuse power immediately and almost irrevocably.
	There's nothing weaker than hiding your vulnerability because it means it's a refusal to stare at those who will abuse power and see them for who they are, which means that they still have power over you and they still have control over you.
	Nothing is stronger than vulnerability.
	Nothing is more clarifying than vulnerability.
	Nothing is clearer than vulnerability.
	And if you hide who you are, you are just making a tombstone of your everyday actions because you don't exist in hiding and you're letting...
	The past robbed you of marriage and children.
	I had to lie to my mom.
	I couldn't be who I was with my mom.
	So that's all I'm ever going to do.
	But that's letting the bitch win.
	No, no, no.
	She had her life.
	She had her kids.
	You have your life.
	You have your kids.
	Exercise the power of vulnerability.
	Vulnerability breaks the past for we victims.
	Because we couldn't be vulnerable when we were children.
	Because we had no choice.
	We had no voluntarism.
	We had no freedom.
	When we can be vulnerable as adults, that is a fundamental recognition that the world has changed, that we no longer live in the past.
	The world has changed.
	When you are vulnerable, you are signaling to your system that the past is over and done, that you're no longer a victim, you're no longer trapped in a destructive and abusive environment.
	Vulnerability means it's over.
	It's done.
	War is over.
	We're home.
	Ticket tape parades is done.
	We're settling down.
	But if you continue to use the same defenses that you had in the past, all you're telling your whole body is that the past is not over.
	Be vulnerable.
	Be honest.
	Be open.
	Show your heart.
	That's the best way of telling your heart, that the tigers are no longer in the grass.
	Does that make sense at all?
	It does make sense.
	It conflicts with a little bit of macho pride, but I know you're right.
	You only think that because you still don't get how the vulnerability is the strength.
	No.
	No.
	Macho pride is I want that which is powerful for me in my life.
	I want that which gets me what I want.
	I want that which gets me power.
	And I'm telling you, just take it for a spin, man.
	Vulnerability and openness will get you what you want in your life.
	Vulnerability and openness will get you exactly what you want in your life, and hiding will only get you the feeling of being prey from here to the end of your life.
	Those in power can be vulnerable.
	Those without power, right?
	The slave cannot cry when he's tired.
	The slave must always be smiling and empty.
	No vulnerability is possible to those at the bottom of the food chain.
	You never show Your weakness when you are in the power of abusers.
	A lack of vulnerability is a sign of being low on the food chain.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Have you ever had a waiter sit down and complain about her shift when you're at a restaurant?
	No.
	No, because they're there to serve you.
	They don't have needs.
	They don't have vulnerabilities.
	They don't have preferences.
	They're just there to serve you.
	Ever have a comedian come out and say he's having a really shitty day and complain about everything?
	No.
	His job is there to entertain you.
	He can't have vulnerabilities.
	Well, comedians, they'll make a joke out of it, though.
	No, but that's not being vulnerable.
	That's converting it to a joke.
	Right, but leaders don't go to...
	Oh, leaders are slaves, though.
	God.
	Of course leaders don't cry.
	Leaders are slaves to the delusions of the masses.
	Right.
	I mean, God, I don't think they have power.
	They just have force.
	But real power.
	Leaders can't show weakness because that would be negative to the people who watch them.
	They would experience it because they're supposed to be parents and they're supposed to be gods and all that kind of stuff, right?
	I didn't mean leaders in the sense of state leaders or people in artificial position of authority.
	I come from a corporate background where I was a manager and I had to lead by example.
	I didn't see it as a bad thing.
	Everyone was there by choice, obviously, and I didn't...
	Oh, no.
	But look, if you're a manager, being vulnerable is very powerful.
	Right, here's the situation of the company.
	I really need this to succeed.
	Here's where, you know, if you have vulnerability...
	And that's where Steph's battery died.
	And the show ended.
	Right there.
	In the thick of the conversation.
	In the thick of the discussion.
	It's over.
	Sorry, everybody, for the abrupt ending.
	Steph was doing the show away from the studio this go-around.
	What we're going to do is we're going to pick it up with Wes first thing, first call on Wednesday, and continue the conversation where it left off.
	Fascinating conversation that I was very much enjoying.
	Thank you for listening to the show.
	Promise this kind of thing won't happen again in the future.
	Just a random event.
	But thank you so much for listening, and if you enjoyed the show, please help us out.
	Please, please, please help us out.
	Go to freedomainradio.com forward slash donate.
	Chip in, sign in for a subscription.
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	So thank you very much, and I look forward to seeing everyone on Wednesday.

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