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Aug. 16, 2014 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:30:18

2774 Truth, Welfare and Consequences - Wednesday Call In Show August 13th, 2014

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	Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Freedom Main Radio.
	Hope you're doing well.
	Back to our regularly scheduled Wednesday night.
	Please, if you have a chance, and I hope that you do, take slightly less than an hour out of your life to look at the truth about Robin Williams.
	A very emotional and I think resonant show or conversation.
	And you can find that on YouTube, of course.
	youtube.com slash freedomainradio or fdrpodcasts.com but I hope that you will check it out.
	It was surprising to me actually the degree of emotional connection that I felt and emotional vulnerability I felt.
	Celebrities mean a lot to us and it's not irrational I think that they do.
	So I hope you will check that out.
	Mike is there anything else that we need to talk about at the beginning?
	No, I think that's it.
	We've got a couple cool things in the pipeline, but I'll hold off announcing those until they are signed, sealed, and on the verge of being delivered.
	Are these things I know about?
	Maybe.
	Point me to Mike, Mike.
	What am I doing next Tuesday, Mike?
	Who am I doing next Tuesday?
	The people who are going to blow to get a coffee around here.
	But I do just want to say, a significant amount of work from Steph's end, from Stoyan's end, who does a lot of research for us, in my end, went into the Robin Williams video.
	And the only reason we're able to do that stuff is because of the very kind supporters of the show.
	So thank you to all of the people that subscribe again.
	It's incredibly appreciated.
	If you do want to sign up for a subscription, that's also appreciated.
	FDRurl.com forward slash donate.
	But yeah, that's really what I've got to say.
	Thanks everyone for allowing us to do this, and I'm ready to move to callers.
	Well, in an effort to overcome Mike's false modesty, it was mostly Mike and Stoyan.
	Didn't I just go to bed?
	Because we were looking at it.
	The story broke and we talked about it a lot.
	Research was going on and on.
	And I think it was like 12 or 12.15.
	And we're like, oh, we've got a lot of research.
	And I'm like, I'm going to bed.
	Good luck, folks.
	And so I don't know if that means management or what.
	But I went to bed.
	These guys worked most of the night.
	And then in the morning, I rolled out of bed.
	And wept like a Sailor Moon extra, and we called it a show.
	So credit where credit is due.
	It was mostly Mike and Stoyan.
	Certainly the information was theirs, and thanks so much to them, to you guys, for doing such a fantastic job of getting that information together so quickly.
	You did an amazing reading of it.
	I call it an efficient division of labor.
	There we go.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	All right, so who we've got up for?
	All right.
	Up first is Chibiser, who I have not butchered his name yet, and I'm going to hold on.
	I'm sorry, what now?
	Chibiser.
	Okay.
	I'm going to try not to book it.
	Chibazer.
	Chibazer?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Well, I did not know that that was even a name, so I'm glad that you told me.
	All right.
	And he wrote in and said, I have been finding it very difficult to concentrate and find motivation to complete my schoolwork.
	One of my main stress factors is not having a woman.
	I go all the time and talk to many, but most of the time they don't text me back and they end up dropping me before anything gets serious.
	I'm 20 years old and I've never had sex.
	In the college culture, it really weighs on you.
	My question is, what is the best way to go about finding a keeper?
	Well, you're talking about two kind of different things there, right?
	So there's having sex and then there's getting a keeper.
	So which do you want?
	One is considerably easier than the other.
	Yeah, I definitely have seen that in just walking around the school.
	There's a lot more of the one type of girl than the other.
	But, I mean, I'd like to get out of the so-called games as soon as possible.
	I don't like being single, and I feel like it causes me more stress than other things, you know?
	Because I end up going out more often than I normally would if I had a relationship or something, so it's just, you know...
	Instead of studying or doing a different hobby, I'm going out to a club or walking around town trying to talk to any random girl I see that may be attractive or maybe looks like something that I might connect with.
	I mean, it's hard to judge someone by just looking at them, but...
	You know?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so why do you think...
	That it hasn't happened for you as yet?
	My main theory is that growing up, I really wasn't exposed to any sexuality whatsoever.
	I guess the first movie I ever saw in theaters was Transformers, the first one.
	And I swear, I don't think I'd ever seen anyone kiss for...
	I mean, except for maybe my friends and their girlfriends or something, like a peck or something, but actual...
	Making out in real life.
	I don't think I've ever...
	I'd seen that even in movies.
	I wasn't allowed to watch.
	So, like, Transformers, that's the one with Megan Fox, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, like, that was in...
	I was in eighth...
	She is a ridiculously good-looking woman.
	She's like some Japanese cyborg sex robot designed by all of the aggregated testicle juice in the world.
	So I just really wanted to point out that, you know, less robots, more leaning over the car.
	That's my vote!
	And it's not just my vote.
	We have a couple of hands up here.
	All right.
	Yeah.
	I mean, so, like, I didn't even...
	Honestly, I didn't even...
	The first time I kissed a girl was last year, my freshman year in college.
	And it was really just like weighing down.
	I was like, I just really have to kiss anyone.
	And I really did just kiss anyone.
	She wasn't really attractive or anything special in any way.
	I mean, she wasn't anything that I would actually pursue as a relationship or sexually or anything.
	I was just like, I really just need to.
	Yeah, you may want to start referring to women as anyone rather than anything.
	Oh, anyone.
	Sorry.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Just, the thingness is not a big turn-on for women.
	I'm not a woman myself.
	I do play one on television.
	But the thing aspect, thing one and thing two, is not how to approach your first threesome.
	Alright.
	Okay, so no exposure to sexuality.
	I don't know what the Transformers movie has to do with that.
	Well, like, for example, I mean, I had many, I definitely have had many, like, if I look back through my I mean, experience in church camps or just around.
	The girls have definitely liked me, and there's been moments where they've wanted to kiss me or do something, and I would never recognize that.
	I would just hug them.
	It's like in the movies when it's just so cliche, and the hero is with the girl that he's going to end up with at the end of the movie, but at the one part, he's just like, Something happens and he doesn't kiss her.
	He doesn't he doesn't make the move.
	And it's really it's like he doesn't even recognize that she's attracted to him.
	Exactly.
	Yeah, it was like it's like that's been like my for the first 18 years.
	Well, I guess I don't know.
	She likes me.
	I thought she was just hot.
	That's why her top was off.
	You know, maybe she, you know, needed to air out the pits.
	I don't know if it was ever that I don't know if it was ever that that extreme.
	But, you know, it was never that.
	But it was definitely I look back and I'm like, dude.
	Oh yeah, no, I get it.
	I mean, when I was in, when I was, I went to some, my mom sent me to summer camp basically all summer.
	And I was on the swim team and I was, you know, buff and cut and all that kind of stuff.
	And, oh man, yeah, it was pretty obvious the cat calls and, you know, whistles from women and girls, I guess at that time I was like, I don't know, 15 or whatever.
	But yeah, sometimes it's a little bit more obvious than other times.
	Alright, so, okay, am I wrong in assuming single mom, or is it just, like, asexual parents?
	It was, like, it was asexual parents.
	It was, like, it was really bad.
	Let me think.
	I mean, it wasn't single mom.
	Like, she was, he was, he was around.
	I mean, they lived, I mean, okay.
	At the beginning of my childhood, there was, like, domestic abuse.
	Like, my dad would hit my mom all the time.
	Downstairs and we would all hear it but then like we my brother and I called the cops one time and it was like this big episode and after that he didn't he didn't ever uh physically abuse her after that but it was more verbal to her and then at times it would it would it moved from I guess my sister my sisters I have I have five brothers and I have six I have three sisters and two other brothers and my mom's actually pregnant right now but uh My sisters
	were the favorites when we were young.
	My brother and I would get the brunt of all the verbal abuse.
	We would get yelled at more often and get less gifts or whatever it is than they did.
	Maybe when I was like...
	No, it wasn't even that.
	I was always the out...
	I don't know about the out child, but I was always like I always would, according to school, I'd always act out.
	And so I didn't really get along with any of the teachers at school and I didn't get along with...
	All right, hang on, hang on.
	We're drifting from why you're a virgin to not getting along with the teachers at school.
	So I have a...
	Hang on.
	How are you feeling emotionally talking to me at the moment?
	Uh...
	It doesn't feel good bringing up those...
	I don't really delve back in those old archives.
	I usually...
	I always get really upset when I dig back all the way to all the way in the back there.
	Because I really...
	There were so many times, or at least when I got older, I recognized that my dad was like...
	It was a continual cycle.
	It would escalate.
	It would be like...
	We'd have a huge escalation, and then after that, he would be calm for a month, at most three or four months, and then it would start...
	It would be ridiculous things.
	There would be a white truck that would drive up and down the street, and then he would be like, who is that?
	And then it would escalate and escalate, and then there would be another huge episode.
	So I recognized that he would never change, and I really told my mom, I was like, you need to...
	Several times, especially when I was going to college, I told her to break up with the dude.
	I asked you how you were feeling, and now you're talking about white trucks.
	You get your rambling, right?
	Yeah, sorry.
	Not good.
	Look, I'm not criticizing.
	I'm pointing out that you're desperately trying to fend off connection at the moment, right?
	Yeah.
	You're tense, you're verbalizing excessively, you're going on tangents, and you're not listening to my questions?
	Yeah.
	Again, I'm not saying this to make you feel worse, I'm just pointing out that I notice it.
	Because if I don't tell you what my true experience is, then connection is going to be completely impossible, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So, I mean, whenever I try to talk about it, I always, like, I always get...
	I'm sorry, you always get what?
	Emotional.
	Emotional, teary-eyed, or I don't know how...
	Well, no, but you see, no, no, no, you don't, but you're studiously avoiding emotions with me at the moment, right?
	Yeah.
	So talk to me from the emotional part, and that's going to be much more effective, right?
	It's more sad and just like anger and helplessness generally when I think back to those things.
	Okay, but talk to me from that emotional part of you.
	That's right.
	So what is the emotion that you're experiencing that is when you think about these things that is tough?
	Mostly, mostly anger, because I feel like I see all the other kids, and I think that I should have had the same exposure to different things, and I feel like I shouldn't have gone through that stuff.
	Yeah, it's anger, mostly.
	And sadness that I can't go back and change.
	Right.
	Right.
	Did you see examples of more functional families around you when you were growing up?
	I mean, did you not just see them, but did you actually get involved in their lives?
	Did you have friends from more functional families or whatever?
	It was...
	I had a good friend.
	We weren't allowed to have to sleep.
	We weren't allowed to sleep.
	I didn't have any, like...
	I wouldn't say any.
	Sorry, no.
	The answer is no.
	Right.
	So it was pretty uniform that it was dysfunctional, that it was violent, that it was problematic and so on, right?
	Yeah.
	Right.
	So isn't that where fucking leads?
	To this mess, this violence, this chaos, this dysfunction?
	Mm-hmm.
	Yeah.
	I mean, aren't your balls basically two giant landmines that go click if you let them out?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I guess that's what I've been brought up around.
	And so that, I think, is important to understand.
	Like, you think it's about the past, right?
	Yeah.
	But it's not.
	It's not about the past.
	It's about the future, right?
	We all think this stuff is sort of safely tucked away.
	It's safely tucked away in the distant history, way back, oh my god, so long ago, right?
	But that is not the case.
	Particularly with sexuality.
	Sexuality is, I've talked about this before, so I'll just touch on it briefly here.
	But sexuality is, I have to do what dad did in order to make a child.
	So, you know, way back in the day, right?
	In the birthplace of the species in Africa or wherever, way back in the day, there was a tribe of maybe 100 or 200 people.
	And there was not a big spectrum of choices, different personalities, different approaches.
	You basically did what the other men did in order to get access to the women's eggs, right?
	And so, my genes, your genes, our lizard brain is...
	Basically trying to do this.
	I came from a successful mating strategy.
	So I am going to need to do what my dad did so that I can get a woman like my mom, right?
	Yeah.
	Now, how does that seem to you as a deal for sexuality?
	Does it seem like, yay, I get to go and do that, right?
	It's terrible, right?
	I mean, you've got violence, dysfunction, beating.
	Of course, having a look at your adverse childhood experiences score and, you know, nothing to envy, to say the least, right?
	I mean, this is some bad stuff you went through.
	You know, paranoia and violence and abuse and neglect and all this kind of stuff.
	So, deep down in our lizard brain, The future is the same as the past.
	Why?
	Because for 99.999% of human history, that's exactly what happened.
	Tomorrow was the same as yesterday.
	What worked for your dad is going to be what works for you.
	And if it doesn't work for you or if you don't want to do it, then those genes are going to get left by the wayside, right?
	It ain't going to work.
	If you don't do it like your dad did, it ain't gonna work, right?
	So if your parents are modeling the end result of sexuality as being dysfunction and violence and abuse, then you're going to have a very strongly then you're going to have a very strongly ambivalent relationship to sexuality.
	Your hormones are going to be saying, have sex, have sex.
	But your history is going to say, your hormones are trying to kill you.
	So, like, what is there anything that I mean, I can't erase the history because.
	Is there any way to stop the history from talking?
	Is there anything that I can do to escape that?
	You have to inform your unconscious that you've got a new tribe, that you can go someplace new.
	That the future does not have to be the same as the past.
	That means a violent rejection, emotionally, a challenge, a wrenching, a wrenching is a better way of putting it, a wrenching and powerful rejection of the values that led your parents to where they ended up.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	You know, if you don't want to get sick from the same bad food you ate yesterday that made you sick yesterday and you eat it today, you've got to stick your hand down your throat and you've got to vomit, right?
	Yeah.
	Thank you.
	And if your unconscious gets that you're changing tribes, then it will be open to new experiences.
	So let's say you've got this violent, dysfunctional tribe, but over on the other side of the mountain is a peaceful, nice tribe, right?
	Now, your unconscious is like, well, shit, if we stay here, we've got to be an asshole.
	But if we go over the mountain, we can be nice.
	Because your unconscious will adapt to the most successful mating strategy around.
	That's the wonderful thing about human beings.
	We adapt in the moment, right?
	We adapt dynamically as we go through life.
	So if you keep hanging around the tribe of violent people...
	Then sex is going to be something where violence equals success.
	And that's not just theoretical.
	That's actually pretty true.
	because there's not a lot of nice ladies around this kind of dysfunction, right?
	So if you say, look, I clearly get I don't want a life like my parents had.
	I just don't want it.
	You know, rather put my dick in a blender than...
	Go through that stuff, or whatever it's going to be.
	Then your unconscious is like, okay, well, okay, so we're not doing that.
	Well, what are we doing?
	We want to reproduce.
	That's the whole point, right, of the genes, right?
	They say, okay, I'm going over to the mountain to the nice tribe.
	Right?
	But that means that you've got to, and I don't mean physically, just like in your mind, right?
	You've got to say, that is no longer my tribe.
	The new tribe is the nice tribe.
	And then your unconscious will say, oh, shit, we just changed tribes.
	I'm ready to mix it up.
	I'm ready to adapt.
	But as long as you're still around the old tribe, your unconscious is going to be like, okay, well, to have sex, we're going to have to be an asshole.
	We're going to have to be violent because that's what works in this tribe.
	You go over the mountain to the other tribe.
	Well, then you've got a whole new game to work with, right?
	But your unconscious is not going to change or reorient you.
	And right now, it seems to me, because you're rejecting thinking about your history, it seems to me most likely that you haven't consciously made the decision to go towards the new tribe, right?
	To the peaceful tribe, the happy tribe, the functional tribe.
	Not the biggest tribe in the world, but it's there, right?
	And the way that you do that is you say, listen, penis, we're going to have some standards, right?
	We squirt for virtue.
	And only virtue, right?
	Our money shot is ethics, right?
	And if you say, we only squirt for virtue, then your penis is going to be like, shit, I need virtue?
	Let's go find some virtue, because I want to squirt!
	Right?
	And so that is, you know, you've got to give...
	Whatever standards you give to your penis, it's amazing.
	It's like...
	It's like you have this magic racehorse.
	No matter how high you make the fence, it's going to make it over.
	Right?
	And so if you say, I only put out for virtue, we only squirt for virtue, then your penis will turn into like this anaconda hound dog sniffing the ground looking for virtuous snail trails from good women, right?
	Say, we only squirt for virtue.
	You know, I may fap to Megan Fox, but I only squirt in egg proximity to virtue, right?
	And as soon as you give that commandment to your dick, your dick's like, shit, well, I guess since I got a squirt, let's go find some virtue.
	And then you will not be so random in your approach where you sound like, well, I just go up to women on the street and say, hey, want some seed?
	Right?
	And I think that will...
	But you have to put that...
	You have to lay down the law.
	Lay down the law.
	With the penis, right?
	Because the penis is an amoral little bitch snake that will, you know, cough its needed goo into any fertile stream that passes by.
	And, you know, we just had this conversation last night in a call.
	But, you know, it's not anarchy where sperm is concerned.
	There is a ruler, there must be a ruler where sperm is concerned.
	And you have to be in charge of where you point your hose of massive Genetic reconstruction.
	We're not doing what my parents did.
	That's not how we're going to reproduce.
	We squirt for virtue, and then he will head off in search of virtue.
	Or lie like an anaconda and a snake waiting for the virtue of deer to come down and swallow it whole!
	I may have taken the metaphor a little bit too far.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, that's all good stuff.
	How high should I, because I heard one of your studies that said how many forms a woman has had a divorce with, like, one, six, seven marriage.
	Like, how high would that be, like, taken into consideration whenever?
	I'm sorry.
	We're going to have to, I'm sorry to have to move on, but just because I can't, I can barely hear you.
	So you did ask about a study that I had quoted which said that The more sexual partners a woman has had, the more likely you are to get divorced.
	And that seems to be pretty true.
	I don't know.
	People always ask me, what's the associated study for men?
	Don't know.
	I don't date men.
	It doesn't matter that much to me.
	It matters at the abstract level.
	Generally, I think the fewer sexual partners, generally the better.
	Certainly for women, this is very much the case.
	And you definitely don't want to be, you know, like, hey, you look like you have a couple of guys that sneezed into this Kleenex.
	Want to blow your face?
	It's like, nope!
	And I think that men are better equipped to Physically and mentally to remain healthy with more sexual partners.
	But I think with women, it's not.
	It's such a vulnerable thing to have sex as a woman.
	I mean, you've got a guy who's got 40 to 50% greater muscle strength in his upper body, who's in the prime of his life, generally poised over you, thrusting into you.
	It's an intensely vulnerable position.
	Not really so the sake for a man.
	And so I think in general, if I had to theorize, I don't know if the study's even been done, but in general, I would certainly try to avoid women who have been, I don't know, riding the carousel for perhaps one too many spins.
	So that may not be wise.
	Because also, you don't want your first sexual experience to come with an STD. That would be pretty Catholic.
	That would be lame.
	Yeah, that would be...
	That would be a little bit worse than the lame.
	It's not like luggage you put down.
	It's like a tattoo that keeps bleeding.
	And of course, also, there's going to be a pretty vicious skills mismatch if the woman's been around the block, say, four times than the postman.
	And it's your first time where it's just going to be a skills mismatch that's going to make you very self-conscious.
	And listen, also, before you have sex, do some studying.
	Talk to friends who've had sex.
	I know it can be a little...
	Awkward, but learn where the clitoris is.
	Learn what a G-spot is.
	Learn how to handle a nipple without making it beg for mercy.
	Learn how to touch a woman in a way that is neither so light as to be annoying nor so hard as to leave marks.
	Learn a way to navigate a woman's skin, her hair, her neck, the name of her neck, her So just learn female anatomy.
	Learn this, you know, mysterious money shot maker known as the female form.
	And don't go in just saying, you know, I'll trust on instinct.
	It doesn't, you know, there's some technique.
	There's some physical realities that are well worth learning, which you're not going to learn from porn that usually looks like it's shot in some sort of pharmacy when they've turned the lights up extras.
	So...
	All right.
	Well, thank you so much.
	It's a lot of good stuff to think about and hopefully it should.
	Yeah, keep us posted.
	Let's know how it goes.
	And certainly college is the time and the place.
	But yeah, be discriminating as best as you can.
	All right, Mike, who do we have up next?
	Alright, up next is Jacob.
	And Jacob wrote in and said, I feel that I have done what I feel to be irreparable damage to my children by spanking them, and I constantly feel guilty about it.
	Is my relationship with my children doomed because of this?
	Alright.
	So, Tony, give me the vital stats.
	How long spanked?
	How often?
	How old are they?
	When did it stop?
	Hello, it's Jake.
	Jacob, sorry.
	So, I dated my wife in high school, and we dated while I was in the military for eight years.
	She had a child from another man, and we got married when she was about 18.
	All right, all right, all right.
	I'm already annoyed.
	What the hell is going on in the background there?
	That was the previous caller.
	Oh, was that the previous caller?
	Sorry, I have to drop you off the call, my friend.
	Sorry, please go on.
	So I jumped into parenting almost immediately without really understanding what I was doing.
	I'm sorry, how old was your stepdaughter when you got involved with the mom?
	18 months.
	Okay.
	And what had your stepdaughter's childhood been like, or infancy been like?
	No father, mainly raised by my wife and her mother.
	And, you know, she had an aunt, so my mom, or my wife lived with her mother, and in the house was her stepfather, her mother, and her brother and sister, which were, they're both about adult age.
	And what, what happened to the biofather?
	Well, that's a pretty horrible story, but he, at the time, was just a very shady guy, never there for the daughter, and then about two years ago, which my daughter now is six, But about two, three years ago, he was actually arrested for child molestation and is actually serving about 50 years in prison.
	Did you say 5-0?
	Yeah.
	Holy crap.
	I think it was two 25-year sentences to be served consecutively.
	Right.
	So basically, this guy was like a A serious, like, seriously evil child molesting guy.
	He was definitely a psychopath.
	And I've met the guy, and I've talked to him, and, you know, he can definitely, I guess not psychopath, but he can act and integrate well.
	You know, he fooled everyone around him.
	And I don't know him.
	Yeah, alright, well, we don't know that for sure, but okay, so you basically are raising the daughter of a psychopathic child molester.
	No, she's my daughter.
	But yes, yes.
	The biological daughter?
	Yes.
	Of a psychopathic child molester?
	Right.
	And did you know any of this when you got involved with this woman?
	No, she didn't know any of this about him.
	This was, we had been married for two years before this came to light.
	So she had no idea that he had any problems?
	No, she knew he had problems.
	He got fired from jobs for stealing from cash register.
	He got kicked out of casinos for counting cards.
	A lot of issues like that, but nothing like...
	I thought you said he fooled everyone.
	No, no, no.
	But you could count cards and be sociable.
	What about stealing from your employer?
	Is that also considered to be sociable in this world?
	No, not at all.
	But you go to prison and you stole money.
	You can still be sociable, right?
	I don't mean that he was a good person.
	I mean you talk to him and it's not – I guess this would be the case for a lot of people.
	But you don't feel you're talking to a monster.
	Yeah, but – so what?
	I mean – I mean, if there's a poodle that has just beheaded four people, and I just saw the poodle behead four people, I mean, do I go up and say, well, poodles are nice, generally?
	I had no idea, right?
	I mean, there's actual evidence here.
	There's not a feeling-based thing, right?
	Right.
	So he was a criminal?
	Yes.
	So he kind of fooled everyone about what a nice guy he was because he was a criminal, right?
	No, I mean, if he constantly fooled everyone that he was nice, my wife would probably still be with him.
	Or not, you know, I mean, I guess he's in prison, but, you know, it wouldn't have ended the way it did.
	And how did it end?
	I mean she just realized that he was not put together.
	He had tons of problems and that he was – he was raised by just his mother and it was just a mess and she didn't want anything to do with him.
	So sorry to interrupt, Jake, but did she have the child with him before or after she knew he had stolen from work?
	No.
	She was pregnant when he got fired for stealing from work, and that's when it ended.
	They were separated when my daughter was born.
	And are you saying that how long had she known him before she got pregnant with his daughter?
	Maybe three months.
	So she met a guy who turned out to be a criminal and is now in jail for the rest of his natural-born life, which I think is a wonderful thing if he's a child molester, which he, of course, has been convicted of being.
	So she married, sorry, she met a guy and three months later she's pregnant with his child and he turns out to be a criminal and child molester.
	Right.
	Does that not send up any red flags for you there, brother?
	Sure.
	So, like I said, I've known my wife for a long time, way before this happened.
	And, you know, I was in the military.
	She was a junior in college.
	Um...
	Her boyfriend had actually just passed away a couple weeks before she met this guy.
	She was at a party and got drunk and that's where she met this guy.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Her boyfriend died?
	Yes.
	How?
	A car wreck from visiting her at school.
	He was driving home.
	So her boyfriend dies and a couple of weeks later she's hooking up with a psycho?
	It may not, I honestly can't remember the exact dates, but I know it was, you know, from winter to spring.
	You said a couple of weeks.
	I'm just, all I'm doing is quoting you back.
	No, I know you are.
	I'm not saying you're saying it wrong.
	I'm saying I don't know the exact, but it was pretty close.
	Maybe a couple months ago.
	And so what do you think of her judgment as a whole?
	Now?
	No, back when you got involved with her.
	I mean, it was, she was fine.
	It was great.
	Are you saying you thought her judgment was great?
	I'm not saying that her judgment about that was great.
	I'm saying our conversations, our interactions was great.
	Jacob, Jacob, Jacob.
	Pause for a second.
	Take a deep breath.
	You're moving very, very quickly here.
	Pause.
	Take a deep breath.
	Steph asked about her judgment at the time.
	What do you think about that?
	At what time?
	Shit, I don't know.
	I mean, her boyfriend dies.
	How long had she been dating the boyfriend who died?
	Not long.
	She'd known him for a long time, and they just started dating.
	Her boyfriend dies.
	A couple of weeks later, she's hooking up with a psychopath who turns out to be a child molester.
	Three months later, she's pregnant.
	He takes off.
	He's a thief and all that.
	Do you think this is evidence of good judgment on the part of your girlfriend?
	No, absolutely not.
	Okay, that's what I just wanted to sort of understand.
	So just to clear up, I'm not trying to get angry.
	I mean, it's emotional.
	But what I thought you were saying was the judgment when I started talking to her again, you know, when my daughter was 18 months old at that time rather than then.
	Okay, so are you saying that in, I guess, the two years or so since she got pregnant with the psycho's Yes.
	And how did she manage to turn that around?
	What did she do?
	Well, so she was going through college at the time.
	She graduated, started working, and just her working and actually living where she didn't have the money from the family, which it wasn't a lot, but where it was just college life, And then the whole time I was still talking to her, not at that exact point where she was dating this guy, but we never have stopped communicating.
	and when we first started talking again she didn't hide any of it hello I'm here.
	Sorry, you said she didn't hide any of it?
	No, I'm just trying to...
	I guess I don't really know.
	I mean, I know that when I started talking to her and we talked about anything, it seemed very real.
	It wasn't that she had bad judgement.
	Sorry, what do you mean it wasn't that she had bad judgment?
	You mean in the present?
	Yes.
	Well, definitely now, I definitely don't think she does.
	Now she has good judgment?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	But you don't know how she went from what she did in the past, which was incredibly bad judgment, you don't know how she turned it around and now is having good judgment?
	I don't think she's sleeping around with any psychopaths now.
	I wasn't talking about that.
	I was talking about judgment as a whole.
	No, I think she has good judgment.
	For example, my question, you're spanking the children.
	We both were spanking.
	We spanked my daughter and then my first son.
	I have four children.
	Wait, the four children with who?
	With this woman?
	I have my stepdaughter and three boys, yes.
	Oh, so you've had three boys with your wife after you got married, right?
	Correct.
	All right.
	I spanned my daughter because I honestly thought it was right.
	Because I was raised being spanked.
	I wasn't prepared for it and it's one of my biggest regrets.
	I'm sorry.
	What do you mean you weren't prepared for it?
	For parenting.
	If I had...
	I mean I would have realized spanking is wrong, but I remember back through growing up, through my time with – among my friends when I was in a duel or in the military, there were multiple times I said, well, I was spanked.
	Look how I turned out.
	And most people were agreeing with me or had similar consensus, and so that's what I thought parenting was.
	Okay, but I'm sorry, but when you say that you weren't prepared for parenting, what does that mean?
	I mean, did the kids come by accident?
	No, no, they definitely weren't accident.
	But if I had, for example, if I started listening to your show in 2006 before I had my first child, I don't think I ever would have spanked my child.
	And I'm not saying it was just your show, but it definitely opened me up to realize that it's just wrong.
	And A lot of parents spank their kids, and you ask a lot of them, and they'll say it's not wrong.
	And I understand they won't go spank their kids in public.
	They instinctively know that it's not right.
	But I thought that's what you did as a parent, and it's not.
	No, look, I definitely want to give you the honor and respect for changing your mind on this issue.
	That's a huge deal to me, and it's a huge deal for you, and it's an even huger deal for your I just really want to give you that respect for listening and changing your mind.
	How did you find this show to begin with?
	Well, I don't think I knew what a libertarian was until I was out of high school.
	Before then, I was always conservative Republican.
	My older brother was too, and we're very similar.
	We're great friends.
	Anyway, it progressed with Libertarian, and then we were both faced with a dilemma of it's still the same thing as government.
	So we started listening and looking for a lot of other shows, Adam Kokesh and you and other people that I – Christopher Hitchens and Lawrence Krauss, the other scientists.
	And I find your show basically through libertarian circles.
	Okay.
	And when did you – because you had your first son in 2006, right?
	No, my daughter was born in 2007.
	My son was actually born in 2010, my first son.
	Oh, so you have one stepdaughter, one daughter, and two sons.
	And basically your stepdaughter is your daughter.
	I'm sorry.
	No, I have one stepdaughter and three sons.
	Sorry, you said your daughter was born.
	I thought the daughter was the psychos.
	No.
	I understand what you're saying.
	I have one stepdaughter, but I've been married for five years now.
	I just...
	I think of her as my daughter.
	I don't ever refer to her as my stepdaughter.
	No, no, no.
	Look, I completely appreciate that, and I think you're entirely right in doing that.
	I'm just trying to get the sequence down.
	I mean, of course, she's your daughter.
	She's like the biology.
	Who cares, right?
	So I get that.
	I respect that.
	I'm just trying to get it clear in my head.
	No, I understand.
	So she was born in 2007.
	My first son was born in 2010, and that was my wife and I's first kid.
	Okay, so give me your spanking regimen when you were a spanker.
	How often?
	How hard?
	Sure.
	So my daughter, when she was 18 months old, never really spanked.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Never really spanked?
	I don't know what that means.
	Okay, you're right.
	You know, I've never really killed anyone.
	I get it.
	I get it.
	So, you know, potty training.
	Very rarely, but there were a couple of times where you're constantly just peeing or pull up or whatever, so we'd give her a swat.
	Never hard.
	It was only hand, but it was still spanking.
	But it was enough.
	You were trying to give her a negative experience enough to get her to change her behavior, right?
	Absolutely.
	Okay, so it was hard enough to be aversive, right, to get her to change her behavior.
	Yes.
	I remember...
	One instance that – or I have two instances where I think that I cross a line.
	One, I was doing some work in the garage or on my car.
	She walked outside and got on one of her toys, and I was inside actually on YouTube or something looking up on how to do something.
	I go outside, and she's on her little push car halfway down the block, and I was so terrified.
	My first reaction was a spanker, so I did.
	It wasn't multiple times, just one time, but it was harder than I normally do.
	And she was how old at this point?
	Probably two and a half.
	So she was two and a half, and you were supposed to be watching her?
	Yes.
	I wasn't home alone, and the doors were all open.
	But when I did it, I remember feeling just complete and utter fear...
	No, no, hang on.
	Dude, slow down.
	So she was two and a half.
	You were supposed to be watching her.
	I mean, yes, I'm the parent.
	Sure.
	And you weren't watching her.
	You were on YouTube.
	Right.
	And the doors were open.
	No, they may have been.
	The garage door was open.
	The door to the garage was open.
	So, you know, you weren't doing your job as a parent and she got punished for that.
	Yes, absolutely.
	So you were really angry at yourself and scared that you're in attention.
	And look, I'm not trying to beat up on you.
	Every parent takes occasional risks.
	It's just, it's going to happen, right?
	But you were not doing your job as a parent and then she got away.
	You didn't notice it and you were terrified and you hit her for making you feel scared, although it was in fact your fault, right?
	Correct.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	And how hard did you hit her then?
	I mean, pretty hard.
	I mean, no marks, but hard enough that, you know, she definitely felt pain and cried.
	And she probably didn't even know why she was being hit.
	It was that sudden, right?
	Oh, definitely.
	I mean, you know, I definitely waited until— Okay, do not laugh.
	Do not laugh about this.
	Do not laugh about this.
	I'm not giving you that out, okay?
	It's nervousness.
	I know.
	Then be honest about it.
	Don't laugh.
	Alright.
	You know, I went and picked her up, and I definitely made sure I was inside before I did it.
	And, you know, at the time, none of this crossed my mind that why not just do it out in the middle of the street?
	It did not cross my mind.
	And...
	So I went inside.
	I spanked her just one time, but it was hard enough that – and she was obviously very terrified by the way I went out and I scooped her up and rushed her back in the house.
	And I was certainly terrified, but I wasn't just terrified for myself.
	It was also for her that – but in my mind at that time, I'm not saying I'm not – I was definitely compensating for my own feelings, but at the same time, I just could not – I definitely want her to realize how bad it is to walk outside of the house and go down the street.
	No.
	No, no, no.
	Come on.
	She's two and a half years old.
	It's your job to take care of her.
	It is.
	So, I'm having trouble.
	You're on the wrong show if you're going to try and justify this as being some sort of corrective measure to make sure she knows not to go outside, right?
	You don't want to try doing that with me, right?
	No, Steph.
	I'm not.
	I'm not saying it was right.
	I'm not justifying it.
	I'm telling you what I was feeling at the time, whereas now I have a child that's the same age, and if he went out and did the exact same thing, there's no way I would ever spank him.
	Because if I were justifying it in that case, why wouldn't I just do it again today?
	I understand it was wrong, and I understand how wrong it was.
	I just feel like at the time, I only did it because that's what I knew.
	Because otherwise, I would still do it if I hadn't learned more and didn't realize, you know, what the right actions to do are, which I still don't have no idea.
	I mean, like, I mean, I do.
	Okay, listen, I don't want to get into an argument about nothing.
	You said that you hit her so that she would understand how bad it was to go outside.
	And I thought that you meant that that was your justification for it.
	If you were saying that was my incorrect thinking at the time, that's fine.
	We can move on.
	No, I think we should talk about it.
	I'm confused on how to explain it and exactly even what I'm trying to imply because if I did it then, if I spanked her, why won't I spank my child today?
	That's… Let's forget about these theoreticals.
	I just want to be clear because I'm not just having a conversation with you.
	I'm having a conversation with the planet or rather we're having a conversation with the planet and I can't let something go when a parent says I hit my child to teach her how bad it was to go outside.
	I can't let that point go.
	You may fully understand that you've changed.
	I can't let that point go because there are other parents out there who might nod at that statement.
	And I can't let that go because it is completely wrong as a statement.
	Okay, so that's all I was doing was saying that that can't be justified.
	If you're saying that was my crazy thinking at the time, I'm fine with that.
	So let's move on to what happened with your sons.
	Well, all right.
	The next incident was my daughter again.
	And again, it was my fault in the bath.
	And I was sitting there right there next to him.
	She pushed my baby, who at the time was 12 months old, and he went completely under the water.
	His face did.
	And I slapped her in the face.
	And between those two… And she was, what, four or five at this point?
	Probably three and a half.
	Three and a half.
	And you were bathing the two of them together?
	Right.
	And she pushed the baby or maybe was playing with the baby or something.
	And the baby slipped and went underwater.
	No, I was there and it wasn't like I was off doing something else.
	I mean, I saw it happen.
	She pushed me and went under and I didn't even think and I reacted.
	Right.
	Wrongly so.
	Another thing I'm confused about is that today I wouldn't do it.
	If one of the kids pushes the other, I don't reach out and slap them.
	But at the time, that's what I did do it.
	But at the same time, I was just terrified.
	Yeah.
	No, I mean, you experienced something strongly negative, both when your daughter went out and when she pushed your son under the water.
	You experienced something strongly negative and you lashed out as if she had done something negative to you, right?
	Yes.
	I got it.
	It's a weird kind of self-defense and, quote, protection of the children.
	It's the same reason people justify the state, right?
	We need the state to protect our property by taking away our property.
	I need to keep my children safe by hitting them, right?
	Right.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And what happened next?
	Right.
	So I definitely left marks on her face then.
	I mean not like a huge bruise, but just for a couple of hours you could see where I had slapped her.
	But I'd say spanking probably went on for – and my first son, we slapped his hand.
	We swatted his bottom a couple of times, but he was probably the same age, 18 months about.
	And then – My wife was pregnant with a second son, and he's never once been spanked.
	And that's when I was really listening to your show and talking to people and talking to friends.
	And I just – it's weird that I just – it was an epiphany that it was wrong, and I stopped.
	My wife didn't at first.
	It took a little bit to – because she was spanked as a kid.
	I was spanked as a kid.
	That's what we thought you did as a parent, and it took – A couple months where we're both on the same page and she doesn't do it because I don't like it.
	Now she doesn't spank them because it's wrong.
	But my problem is there are times I lay awake at night and I just feel so horrible that I ever did that.
	And I don't know if it will ever go away, but if it won't ever go away, then what am I supposed to do?
	Right.
	Have you talked to your daughter?
	How old is she now?
	She is six.
	And yes, I've talked to her many times, and I have apologized, and I've told her in, I guess, age-appropriate terms that it was wrong for me to spank her.
	But I feel like if I apologize too much, then bad consequences could happen from that.
	We pulled her out of – she went to kindergarten last year.
	We pulled her out.
	We're homeschooling her this year, and we're going to homeschool the rest of the kids just But I just don't think that her going around, if she were to talk to friends, they go – if it becomes a fixation, a child going around saying that my dad's always apologizing for hitting me is going to be horrible.
	I don't think I abused my children more than most other parents.
	I'm not saying I didn't abuse them.
	I'm saying – I wasn't abusive in the terms of just hitting them and cursing at them, but – I can't apologize as much as I want to, is what I'm trying to say.
	Do you think that she has accepted your apology?
	I don't know.
	She loves me and she's great with me and we have tons of fun, but I don't know.
	We talk about it, but like I said, I am...
	What does she say when you apologize?
	She says, I know, Daddy.
	It's okay.
	She doesn't put it into terms like, oh, I was just being bad or anything.
	That never crossed her mind.
	So she says that she forgives you.
	When someone says, don't worry, it's okay, that means that she's forgiven you, as far as she's able with the knowledge she has, right?
	Right, yes.
	So she forgives me, yes.
	But what about 10 years from now?
	I mean, hopefully by then we'll have nothing but good memories.
	I don't know.
	What do you mean, what about 10 years from now?
	That she may not forgive you?
	What about when she...
	No, no, I understand that.
	I understand that.
	But she will also know about your childhood.
	She will know that when you got better information, you changed and apologized, committed to peaceful parenting, kept her out of government schools, negotiated with her, reasoned with her, had fun with her, was a great dad with her.
	That's true.
	Hopefully, 10 years or more of consistently good behavior is enough to overcome some pretty serious lapses in judgment that happened when she was an infant and a toddler.
	That's true.
	If you can't overcome that...
	With her through any consistent virtuous behavior, you're going to be paranoid about any wrongdoing you could do.
	We can't paralyze ourselves because we might do something wrong which is completely unrecoverable from, right?
	Because we act and we act, you know, you could have read some books and this and that, but whatever, right?
	I mean, you know, it is what it was, right?
	Which is that these are the decisions you made.
	I would argue that it's actually a continuation of Of the selfishness that caused you to hit her to continue to obsess over the possible negative ramifications.
	I agree.
	Right?
	She wants you, like, if I forgive someone and they keep apologizing, I know it's not about me anymore.
	In other words, they acted in a selfish manner, they hurt me.
	And now they keep wanting my forgiveness even though I've given it.
	It means they're still acting in a selfish manner and using me in some way.
	So I agree, and I do think I am doing that.
	My problem and my fixation on this is I don't continuously apologize to her.
	I've had several conversations with her, and that's it.
	It's not like I'm constantly bringing up the subject.
	It's not something always on my mind, but every once in a while, I do think about it, and it keeps me awake.
	Yeah, and I think it's useful in terms of keeping your commitment to peaceful parenting going forward.
	But you either have to accept that your daughter has forgiven you, which she seems to have done.
	Or you have to think that she's lying to you.
	Or that there's just some weird, mysterious voodoo curse that's going to boomerang at some point in the future.
	But all of that means that you're that much less emotionally available to your daughter because it's on your mind.
	I'm not saying you're obsessing about it or anything, but it's there, right?
	Right.
	When you have done wrong, then you apologize.
	You make restitution.
	When you are forgiven, you have to move on.
	How do you make restitution?
	You have to put it behind you.
	I'm sorry?
	How do you make restitution?
	You have made restitution.
	You have a huge amount of fun with her.
	You are not hitting her.
	I assume you're not yelling at her or calling her stupid or a jerk or anything like that.
	You're keeping her out of government schools.
	You are making an incredibly strong commitment to being a peaceful parent.
	I mean, what more restitution could be offered?
	Shit, I mean, if my mom had turned around when I was still in the single digits, we'd have a whole different planet today for me.
	You turned it around as nobly and as powerfully, I think, as a human being is capable of doing that.
	And you turned your wife around.
	I mean, those children's four lives have been irrevocably changed for the better by your commitment to peaceful parenting.
	So, you have acknowledged the wrong, you have apologized, you have made restitution, and you have been forgiven.
	More than that cannot be expected of anyone.
	I expect a lot of myself, though.
	Fantastic.
	No, but then expect a lot of yourself in accepting forgiveness.
	All right.
	Tell me what else, other than having a time machine and going back and stopping your hand, what more can you do?
	Nothing.
	So when there's nothing more than you can do, do not have impossible standards.
	They become self-flagellating, right?
	You might as well just beat yourself with a stick for original sin.
	Right.
	That's not real.
	It's not realistic.
	It's not realistic.
	You hit your daughter a couple of times, which obviously is bad, but you certainly didn't do it with evil intent.
	It wasn't like, you have defied my irrational instructions, I'm now locking you in a cage and poking you with a sharp stick, right?
	Right.
	For sure.
	So, you have acknowledged you're wrong, you have apologized, you have making continual restitution.
	So you need to continue to honor the work that you've done and continue to be emotionally available to your children and do not torture yourself over that which you can't fix anymore than you've already fixed.
	And look, it happens to all parents.
	I remember once I was at a grocery store and my daughter was sitting in the cart And the road, the sidewalk looked completely flat.
	So I got a bag of groceries and I started heading towards the car, which was like four feet away.
	And the cart started rolling.
	It wasn't flat.
	I didn't even notice that.
	That was a slight slope.
	Now, I grabbed it and so on, right?
	But if I, I mean, yeah, every, every month or two, I'm like, oh, you know, if I hadn't, she'd have toppled over and, right?
	Right.
	Or one time I was carrying with her on my shoulders, I was walking between two parked cars, and there was this little thin chain that was some low fence to help the cars not go too far off the parking lot.
	She was on my shoulders.
	Who doesn't, as a father or mom, have nightmares of tripping with a child on your shoulders, right?
	Right.
	Now, if I hadn't seen that, I would have tripped with her on my shoulders.
	I don't know what would have happened then.
	You would have been hurt, and she probably would have been fine.
	Oh, I could give a shit about me being hurt, but she could have face-planted into the concrete.
	No, I understand what you're saying, but I'm sure you'd have amazing instincts and protect her, but I know what you're saying.
	Yeah, but you can't do it all, right?
	No, of course not.
	So every parent has...
	Right?
	Every parent has these...
	Right?
	This is...
	Your heart is walking out there around in the world, right?
	Right.
	And...
	If I were to focus on that, I would be less emotionally available to my daughter.
	And I'd become increasingly...
	Like, you have to have some discipline.
	I mean, you're an army guy.
	You know a little bit about discipline, right?
	Ex-army guy.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	So you have to have the discipline to say, I have acknowledged my wrong.
	I am making strenuous restitution.
	I've turned this whole thing around.
	I've apologized.
	My apology has been accepted.
	Put a bow in it.
	Put it in the basement.
	It's done.
	All right.
	And be happy at what you have turned around.
	Take pride in what you have turned around.
	You have done a magnificent thing here.
	And I get that when you change your moral behavior, there's the tendency to self attack, right?
	Right.
	And I understand that.
	And that will ease over time.
	But if you have been forgiven but continue to attack yourself, it's not about your daughter anymore.
	That's true.
	I agree.
	And great job.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Thanks very much for everything, including this conversation, and I look forward to hearing how it goes in the long run.
	Call me up in 10 years.
	If there's a big problem, we'll put her on the show.
	There won't be.
	No, there won't be.
	I'll try to keep you updated.
	Thank you, Steph.
	I really appreciate it.
	Thanks, man.
	All the best.
	Bye.
	Alright, up next is Carson.
	Carson wrote in and said, My girlfriend of four years broke up with me three days after I came home from my overseas deployment.
	I later learned that she had cheated on me while I was gone, but didn't tell me until I recently tried to patch things up in the relationship.
	Now she wants my forgiveness and to continue our relationship.
	My question is, is it even worth considering the idea of staying with a cheating partner And you think, despite their infidelity, they might have enough value or the relationship might have enough value to make it worth it.
	Wow.
	How long were you deployed?
	Nine months.
	So, I mean, it wasn't like you were in jail for 20 years and she had a dalliance.
	You were gone for nine months.
	Did she know?
	That you were going to be gone for nine months, or was it like suddenly cut short?
	So nine months, it was more or less like off and on a year, because the process takes about a year.
	But essentially, yeah, it was like a month of no breaks, like gone for nine months, then came back.
	And yeah, she knew that ahead of time.
	Okay, and...
	How long were you gone when she – when you say she cheated, did she go like full-on bareback screaming intercourse with another guy or was it more like second base or what happened?
	It was – I mean I obviously didn't pry for the gory details but as far as I know it was sexual intercourse.
	Do you know if she wore any protection?
	Or if the guy wore protection?
	Yeah, I did.
	I asked that.
	That was the only detail I asked about, and it was a yes.
	Sweat, eyed from brow.
	And how long were you gone when this happened?
	Actually, that's kind of weird.
	It was like two months before I got home.
	Uh-huh.
	I kind of know, too.
	I can kind of hone it down, too.
	You had a caller a week or two ago.
	Remember that guy that said when his girlfriend cheated on him, she was being really confrontational and attacking him all the time?
	When that guy said that to you, I was like, yeah.
	She was the same way.
	She was always cornering me.
	This is over Skype.
	While I was deployed, she would demand these ridiculous...
	I was already going through a lot of emotional stress.
	Essentially, I deployed with a bunch of criminals and it was a lot.
	I was getting no support and I was like, what the heck's going on?
	But now, obviously, I know.
	Sorry, you said she was giving you all these impossible what?
	One of the problems she had with me is that I was kind of non-committal.
	I had always been sort of timid when it came to marriage.
	I never told her no, but I always try to pump the brakes on that.
	I'd be like, let's just wait, let's just wait.
	We were both still in college when we met, and we weren't financially stable, so I was just like, let's wait.
	You recently said that cohabitation before the marriage is bad for success.
	Which we have cohabitated, which, I don't know, to me, I guess that's counterintuitive because I was like, well, of course, you know, let's go for a test run.
	But, I mean, I guess I had something to do.
	Yeah, good for cars, bad for marriage, right?
	Yeah, I guess so.
	Right.
	Yeah, because basically you're putting yourself in a marital situation without the commitment, which tends to get messy.
	Well, yeah, as we saw.
	Right.
	Right.
	Now, had she ever cheated on boyfriends before?
	No.
	I mean, assuming she's being honest, which I think she is, like, she only cheated on me once, and that was the only time she'd ever cheated in her life.
	Yeah, but how do you know?
	I mean, she cheated on you, right?
	Exactly, and that's why, you know, that's why I was kind of just like, I wasn't just, you know, because you see these sagas, like, when you're growing up, like, in high school and college, you see these, like, Awful relationships, like the ones you talk about where it's just like cheating back together, like broken up back together, then like physical violence started.
	I wanted to avoid this saga.
	That's why I really want to talk to somebody before I even considered like trying to talk to her again.
	And that's like, I always have those urges to call her, but I'm like, no, we'll not call her.
	How did you find out that she cheated?
	It was because like, so she had broken up with me, right?
	Like right after I got home and I was like, what the hell?
	I was like, well, after lasting nine months, I thought that was a little strange.
	And then after being single for a week, navigating the jungles of singledom, I was like, man, I've got to try and fix this.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Oh, man, you must have been horny.
	Well, nine months, right?
	Yeah.
	Nine months with your menage adis with the two thumbs and eight fingers, right?
	And...
	So, I mean, because you're like, you're a young guy, right?
	So you're like, damn, my balls are hanging lower than a castanet from a sweaty goose.
	Yeah.
	Because you're like, it's been a week.
	I got to find someone, right?
	Yeah.
	But I couldn't do it, man.
	I couldn't go through with it.
	Like, I had plenty of willing partners, but I couldn't ever.
	I was like, you know, I don't want this.
	You know, this is not anything.
	Like, another...
	I'm sorry to keep making references to prior shows, but one time you said, like, the variety is way overrated, and I decided to just take your word on that one instead of doing it, because...
	Yeah, look, new sexual partners are just people who don't know what you like.
	Yeah.
	And may, in fact, be extremely freaked out at what you like, right?
	Right?
	I mean, new sexual partners are just people...
	You don't have a clue what gets your mojo working.
	And, you know, teaching them how to do it and, you know, exactly, you know, how they're supposed to hang from the sex ropes.
	And I mean, it's all, you know, very complicated where the goose bill is supposed to go and all that.
	It's really messy.
	And obviously of questionable legality in many places of the world.
	So, yeah, it's I don't think variety, I think massive inexperience.
	And that just is not that tempting for me at all.
	Right.
	So, yeah, I mean, if you've got someone you play really great tennis with and you're competitive and you both really enjoy the game and so on, it's like, here's someone new.
	I don't even know if they know how to play tennis.
	I'm going to go play with that person.
	It's like, that's not variety.
	That's just going to be a bad partner.
	Yeah, I mean, yeah.
	So I didn't even go to tennis.
	Okay, so, but you still haven't told me.
	You still haven't.
	Soldier, I order you to tell me.
	How did you find out?
	Oh yeah, sorry, so I got distracted.
	Anyway, so I was trying to like repair the relationship.
	So after navigating jungles of singledom and turning away from that, I was like, you know what, I really want to fix this.
	And everybody, my friends and family liked her and they were like, yeah man, you should really, you know, if you like her, you should fix this.
	And I was like, you know what, time to be a man.
	Man up, fix it.
	So I was trying to...
	A real man would...
	You know, the moment I hear a real man would, I just know a massive tsunami of bullshit is coming my way.
	Well, I mean, maybe perhaps that was...
	No, not from you.
	I just mean from people who said, like, man up!
	A real man does this!
	A real man does that!
	It's like...
	I don't know.
	I've known lots of men who are physically real who don't do any of that stuff.
	So I'm afraid you failed at the beginning.
	Not you, but...
	Right, yeah.
	Maybe poor friend.
	But anyway, they thought...
	Nobody was against the idea of me trying to fix relationships.
	So I was like, okay, cool.
	And I wanted to.
	So I was...
	We were talking because we still...
	She had moved out at this point.
	So there was still the exchanging of things that goes on after a breakup.
	And she broke up with you, right?
	Yeah.
	And she didn't say what?
	No.
	Did she even have a cover story?
	She said that it was because I was too noncommittal and that she just wasn't happy.
	So she really fucked you over six ways from Sunday, right?
	She slept with another guy.
	We hope she had protection.
	And then she broke up with you and blamed you.
	Yeah.
	Oh, dude.
	Oh, serious negative points here.
	Yeah.
	Alright, go on.
	So you try to get back with her, because you're like, hey, you gotta get me more of that.
	Well, I was like, hey, you know, like, you say I'm not committal.
	Well, here I am after you broke up with me, and then she told me, then she said she was not interested, and then I came at her again, and she was like, oh, well, maybe.
	Because I think at this point, that's when she realized that, like, apparently...
	Wait, why did she say she wasn't interested?
	At first, she was like, no, I don't...
	Her initial response was no.
	It's too late.
	Yeah, she's like, I don't want to be with you.
	And then I was able to, in the next couple of days, convince her to start thinking about it, right?
	Which I assume at the same time was when homeboy that she had started talking to, when she realized that he just...
	I mean, I think the best I can gain is that this guy just said the right things and got in her pants and then bailed.
	What?
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	So, you talked her into maybe thinking about it, and just, yeah, I can slow down a bit, because we do have some non-native speakers who can't figure out your fax noises.
	Sorry.
	Fine.
	So, how, I must ask you again, how did you find out about the guy?
	Right.
	So, anyway, after that stage, after we got from, like, the maybe to, okay, let's talk about a stage, that's when she...
	It was presented actually in a question she asked me.
	She's like, did you have sex with anyone in Afghanistan?
	Because there was a lot of female soldiers and contractors and stuff.
	And camels!
	Yeah.
	Well, some of the natives actually did that, but not really the Americans so much, but...
	So much, right?
	Yeah, so much, as far as I know.
	It's hard to get them to step into the necessary rubber boots.
	Anyway, think about it.
	Go on.
	That happens a lot, man.
	In employment zone, people's morals and stuff just go out the window.
	Husbands are banging other people's wives.
	It's just like, I don't know.
	People just take the change of view.
	Let's get back to, and I'm going to give you one more chance here.
	Yeah, my bad.
	Sorry.
	How did you find out?
	Yeah, my bad.
	She asked me.
	Did you have sex with anybody while you were deploying?
	I was like, of course, no.
	And then my spidey sense was tingling like, okay, did you whilst I was gone?
	And she was like, that's when the sniffles and I was like, okay, well.
	I'm going to go.
	Then what happened?
	Then a couple days later, I told her I didn't want to talk to her and then she just showed up at my house and Eventually, I was just like, you know, I don't want to...
	You know, I don't know if I can be with you.
	Wait, you said you don't know if you can be with her?
	Yeah, well, I think...
	No, I didn't say I don't know.
	I was like, I can't be with you.
	All right.
	So far, I'm with you.
	Then what happened?
	I mean, that's where we kind of stand today.
	I've only spoken to her like once to get stuff and...
	Or spoken to her once so she could come get things.
	And I don't know, man, like...
	I've started kind of like, you know, I've been dating other girls, but I've never really like, I haven't progressed with them.
	And I guess my question is like, you know, I'm still, I really like- You haven't progressed with them because you're hung up on the cheater.
	Exactly.
	I mean, exactly.
	And I'm trying, I guess like my question would be like the simplest forms.
	Like, so how do you like, I don't know, get over that, man?
	Because she was like my only serious like relationship that I ever had in my life.
	Okay, hang on.
	So the first thing you have to do is stop dating.
	I know that you're young, but you have to stop dating.
	Because you're not giving yourself any time to process stuff.
	And you don't want to meet who could be the love of your life while you're still hung up on this mess, right?
	Right.
	Because then that person will know that you're not emotionally available.
	And then if you tell them why, then that woman will say, well, I think your judgment sucks and get the hell out of there.
	And if you don't tell her why, then she'll say, well, you don't even know who you are.
	And she'll get out of there, right?
	Yeah.
	Right.
	Has she apologized for misleading you about why she was breaking up with you?
	I mean, yes, but only after I pointed out, like, the immense, like, inconsistencies of like, why not only...
	Okay, okay, hang on.
	So I got a couple more questions.
	Has she apologized to you for robbing you of the chance For two extra months of closure by telling you while you were overseas?
	Yes.
	Okay, so she did apologize for not telling you when it happened?
	Yes.
	And was that after you pointed that out or did she initiate that?
	Yes, it was after I pointed that out because I had told her to do that.
	Listen, man.
	Tell me something that she has apologized for without you prompting her.
	Oof.
	Ooh.
	That's the empathy test.
	Right?
	That's the empathy test.
	Does she understand how it affected you without you telling her how it affected you?
	Right, yeah, which would be a big fat negative.
	Well, that's my answer.
	When cornered, she will apologize.
	Yeah.
	But she has not sat there and thought about all the ways in which this has affected you.
	And initiated apologies on her understanding of how it's affected you.
	She's waited for you to tell her how it's affected you and then apologize for that, right?
	Yeah, that's 100%.
	I had to explain these things to her.
	Right, yeah, that's not good.
	How was the rent being paid for the two months that she was living at your place and she'd screwed another guy?
	Oh, I believe that was actually like...
	So, man, you're going to probably be mad at me for this one.
	But she had called me one day, essentially in a fury.
	And she was like, I want to move out.
	I want to move out.
	Like, not separate with me.
	When did she call you?
	This would have been like around that time.
	Like around maybe two and a half to three months.
	Because we lived with my dad and she wasn't getting along with him.
	So she wanted to move to a place.
	And I was like, okay, cool.
	Like, I'll come meet up with you later.
	Like, essentially.
	Wait, I'm sorry.
	I've lost track of this.
	Didn't she call you while you were overseas?
	Yes.
	So how the hell...
	Oh, you'd come meet her later.
	I mean, after you get back.
	Yeah, when I get back, I'll move in where...
	She just didn't like, you know...
	Oh, okay.
	Sorry.
	Let me just...
	I think I understand.
	She wanted to move out because she wasn't getting along with your dad?
	Yeah.
	Was she paying rent to your dad?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	And so she wanted to move out, and you said, go ahead, I will catch up with you when I, like, I'll come move in when I get home.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And then you offered her money.
	Um, I didn't offer her money.
	Oh, so she paid for the new place on her own.
	Yeah, she was, this was something she took completely on her own.
	She works and stuff.
	She's like, I'll just get a place.
	And I was like, okay.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And that's why you were expecting to move in with her.
	Right.
	All right.
	And if she hasn't initiated any apologies for stuff that you haven't brought up first, then I don't think that she's showing any empathy.
	Look, I tell you, if she wanted to win you back, Sorry, let me go.
	I know that your parents got divorced because of the questionnaire you filled out.
	Were there any affairs on the part of your parents?
	Oof.
	You see, I don't actually know, but I have suspicions.
	But they're not solid facts.
	Alright, okay.
	And are her parents together?
	No, actually her father's completely absent in her life.
	Yeah, well, that's a warning sign.
	Yeah, I mean, after these are things that, like, I guess I kind of found you a little too late.
	I actually started listening to you while I was deployed, and I was like...
	Oh, no.
	Didn't have a child yet, did you?
	Ain't too late, as long as there's no spawn on the planet, right?
	I was really big into that, too, so at least I had that down before I listened to you.
	No kids.
	No kitties.
	So, I'm sorry, just before we move on with that, so did she want to move out from your father's place after she had sex with the other guy?
	My best understanding of the timeline is I think it wasn't until she moved out that it happened.
	I think.
	Because surely, there's no way, essentially because of the living situation, there's no way that it would have happened there.
	Obviously.
	No, it could have happened at the guy's place.
	Yeah, that's what I'm...
	You know, because my sloppy second suspicion is that she, and I think you've mentioned this already, that she made a play for this guy and it didn't work, right?
	Perhaps, yeah.
	Right, it was just a one-time thing.
	Well, either then she had sex with someone, it was completely meaningless when you were coming home in two months, in which case she's got the judgment of a retarded soap dish.
	Or it was something meaningful, but the guy didn't want to have anything to do with her after the sex, in which case she also has the judgment of a retarded soap dish.
	Yeah, so she would be taken advantage of essentially if that were the case.
	Right.
	Right.
	So.
	Is she doing anything like she she she did a very destructive and hurtful thing?
	Right.
	Right.
	Has this caused her to change any fundamental thing about her life?
	Has she said, geez, man, I got to get into therapy.
	I don't know how this came about.
	I don't know how this happened.
	I never really thought of myself as a liar, but I deceived you.
	I flirted with another guy.
	I slept with him.
	I deceived you.
	I blamed you for the breakup and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	And if you hadn't circled back, I may never have told you, and you'd have sat there with this whole, oh my god, I can't commit, and that's why the love of my life left me, and I'd had all that regret, and you'd have gone through life deluded and blaming yourself for something which I caused in my own immaturity.
	Like, has this been a giant fucking wake-up call?
	For this selfishness that she displayed.
	Is she like, oh my god, I read books.
	I've got to figure out how my absent dad has played into all of this.
	Has this been a wake-up call for her at all?
	I've talked to her obviously very little, but I think yes.
	She was mortified at herself very clearly.
	And realized...
	This whole thing of her not telling me, she was just trying to do the cowardly skirt around the inconvenient emotional truth of having to tell me.
	So I think once it came to a head, she was just like, and once my parents found out, you know, and her parents found out, she was just absolutely mortified.
	Wait, wait, wait, wait.
	You know, that sounds a lot more like shame than guilt.
	Once everyone found out, Lordy, I was mortified!
	Well, I mean, I think people that she cared about told her, you know, you can't do this stuff.
	No, no, no, but that's not from her.
	That's what I'm trying to tell you.
	That's not coming from her.
	Right.
	That's not her conscience rearing up and saying, oh my God, I did a terrible thing.
	Yeah.
	I mean, yeah.
	It's like, oh my god, people are telling me I did a terrible thing.
	I guess it's terrible.
	I shouldn't do that because people don't approve.
	Which, okay, so to answer your question directly, do I think that she had some, like, a moral, like, a recognition of the moral atrocity she committed from within?
	Yes.
	and that she has expressed absolute willingness to change her life in a way or to prevent such a thing from happening again because she doesn't want to be that person fundamentally.
	Has she called you up and said, no pressure, I owe you this.
	I owe you telling you everything about what I did that was wrong.
	I owe you the absolution of it wasn't your fault.
	I owe you my regret for all of the pain.
	I've made a whole list of all the painful things that this has done to you.
	I need to take total ownership so this Shit semen stain doesn't stick to your forehead for the rest of your life and that you don't carry this into your next relationship.
	Has she really been proactive in taking ownership, in calling you to make sure that you move on with the closure of knowing that she did this and it wasn't your fault and she blamed you for something that she did?
	Nope.
	And let you sit with that and may have continued, right?
	One question you must have, you must have, is if I hadn't circled back and tried to get with her again, would anything have happened?
	Would she ever have told me?
	Would I ever have?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Which is, you know, to answer your question, no.
	Like, that has not happened.
	And yes, I do think about, like, I wonder, like, Jesus Christ, what if she never would have told me?
	Well...
	Then, in my opinion, I can't tell anyone what to do, but if I were you, I'd be like, whoa.
	Yeah.
	Dodge that bullet.
	I mean, I guess I kind of, like, my question kind of, like, evolved over the time it took to actually write it and to now, because, like, I mean, I don't know.
	I don't see me...
	Doing it.
	Like, getting back.
	Although I do miss her a lot.
	I just, I can't.
	Like, it's always like a constant ego battle.
	Be like, call her.
	And it's like, no, don't call her.
	And I end up not calling her.
	I haven't done it yet.
	One time I actually did, but then I diverted.
	And I was like, hey, what do you want me to do with this desk?
	Like, that was it.
	What do you want me to do with this dick?
	I need desk!
	I need desk!
	Yeah, exactly.
	Right, right.
	Now, how hot is she?
	I don't know.
	Like, I do know that it wasn't her looks that attracted to me at first.
	Um, so I don't know.
	I'd say maybe she's a seven.
	Like, she was stunningly gorgeous, but she was pretty.
	And you say that you have no shortage of willing sex buddies, right?
	Uh, no.
	I mean, yeah, no.
	And so, how handsome are you?
	Um, actually, in anticipation of coming on the show, I did a poll, and I got a couple sevens, a couple nines, but mostly a solid eight.
	Solid eight.
	Yeah.
	Plus, you know, you're recent military, right?
	So you're still pretty cut, right?
	Yeah, I'm decently good looking and think in good shape.
	Right, right, right.
	Well, I think that your parents split up.
	How old were you?
	I was seven.
	Yeah.
	And who did you live with?
	I lived with my mom until I got a vehicle and then I moved in with my dad.
	So when you were 16?
	16, yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, there's a hunger in the kids of divorce for connection, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	Oh, yeah.
	Definitely.
	I really, really want to connect with, like, girls.
	I had a hard time connecting with girls until, like, a relatively late age.
	Kind of like your first caller.
	Right.
	Right.
	So when you...
	When you come from a divorced family, there's this big hole in your heart that comes from the divorce.
	The urge to stuff it full of other people, particularly sexual partners, can be almost overwhelming.
	It was a drug for me when I was younger.
	I distinctly remember feeling really down and then getting a call from a girl that I wanted to go out with.
	She's like, oh, I'll meet you downtown.
	I was like an Like an ass-ends bus ride away from downtown, like two hours on the bus, and the whole time I'm like...
	I'm like, oh my god, like penile endorphin injection machine was working my groin like three guys trying to cut down a redwood with dynamite.
	And because I come from a divorce and all the mess and so on, so for me, feeling like half a jigsaw This puzzle that needed to complete was very overwhelming.
	And I mean, you're a young guy, so I really get that you feel incomplete.
	You feel like you're half a person without another half.
	And that stuff, I'm telling you from long and bitter experience, it won't work.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	You can be a great partner.
	You can't be a needy partner, right?
	You can't ever negotiate if you have to have the job or starve, right?
	Right.
	And if the reason you're with someone is out of fear of being alone, right, you're like, oh, man, I was out dating for a week.
	And I'm like, oh, my God, I got it.
	It's like a week?
	Are you kidding me?
	We've been out of the country nine months, a week?
	Yeah, right.
	So there's a need, right?
	I mean, the man's heart is hungry.
	I love that Springsteen song.
	It's like, Amazing.
	A fantastic song.
	Everybody's Got a Hungry Heart.
	I love the beginning.
	Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack.
	I went out for a ride and I never went back.
	Like a river, don't know where it's flowing.
	I took a wrong turn and I just kept going.
	Amazing to me.
	He's a fantastic lyricist in many ways.
	But the man's Hungry Heart is, you know...
	I mean, we understand the woman's hungry heart, hypergamy and all of that for women in general, not all women in particular, but the hungry heart of a man to connect, to nestle in the bosom of a loving woman, to have the softness and the empathy and the caresses and the holding of heart, balls, body and soul from a great woman is a very deep and powerful hunger.
	Right.
	Women are our very first sustenance as a gender.
	We are alive because their bodies fed us and fetuses and their breasts fed us as babies.
	And the desire to return back to what Freud called that oceanic sense of oneness with a woman is a deep yearning in the male heart.
	And Especially when there's been a divorce that has shattered the family, that yearning to reconnect, to become whole by joining with a woman is a very, very powerful and overwhelming desire.
	And women know this.
	Women know how subtle and tender and needy men's hearts are, particularly from broken homes.
	And it is a very powerful feeling.
	And you can't find love if that's what's driving you, because that's need.
	And need and love are antonyms.
	Yeah, I think it's pretty accurate.
	I agree a lot.
	I mean, if you go to buy a car and the guy's like, I need you to buy this car!
	I need you to buy this car!
	You've got to buy this car!
	I need it!
	Because then I get a trip to Aruba, you've got to buy this car!
	I mean, what are you going to say?
	Hell no, I don't want that car, right?
	Yeah.
	Well, I sympathize with your desire for a trip to Aruba, but I cannot buy the car based upon your need.
	Yeah.
	Tell me how the car works for me.
	But don't tell me your needs, right?
	Right.
	Yeah, I think that's pretty – that's solid stuff.
	It's just – I mean it's a jungle out there, man.
	It's rough.
	Right.
	I really sympathize with what you said.
	You said like – Something to the effect of like, you know, most people don't have an ethical bone in their body, and you're just like, when you go out and actually look at it, you're like, God, I can't even, like, why don't we follow traffic rules and not just like, when I want your stuff, like, why don't we just kill each other?
	Like, I don't get it.
	I don't know what keeps us polite.
	I guess like you said it, though, consequences.
	Well, can I tell you that it's sort of ironic that your girlfriend who slept around with you certainly did not have an ethical bone in her body.
	But anyway.
	Yeah, I mean, you can do whatever you want.
	Obviously, I don't tell people what to do, but I think that this is time to grit your teeth, accept the loss, and if she is a woman who's worthy of your time, then she will find a way to bring your love back to life.
	But I would wait and see what she does at this point.
	I think you're right.
	I agree.
	She's got the restitution to make up.
	Give her that opportunity to do the right thing.
	And if she doesn't, then the odds of her changing in the future are almost zero.
	Right.
	Right.
	Because if this isn't a wake-up call, I don't know what would be.
	Yeah.
	And so I... Yeah, wait and see what she does.
	But with each day, I would have diminished hope.
	And at some point, you will get closure on this.
	And then the next, your heart will then be available for the next woman once you get closure.
	But yeah, to try to avoid the, you know, Joe player, heal yourself with mountains of pussy scenario, because that won't work either, I think.
	All right.
	Okay.
	Thanks, man.
	Give us a call.
	Let us know how it goes.
	Do you want us to forward any fine, young, philosophical ladies who hear about a guy who's an eight in cut?
	No, I think that one age rock band said it best when, you know, it's a lonely road, but I got to walk it alone.
	So thanks, Seth.
	And by the way, your picture's awesome.
	You look like a real estate agent or like a vacuum cleaner salesman or something in your little pictures.
	I've really got to get that updated.
	I think that's 10 years now?
	Nine years?
	Anyway.
	Yes, I appreciate that.
	Thank you very much.
	I have a wonderful car.
	You've got to buy it!
	I need that trip to Aruba.
	You're that car salesman you talked about.
	That's right.
	Alright, let's do one last caller.
	Mr.
	Mike, who do we have?
	Alright, Kevin is up next.
	Kevin wrote in and said, Growing up as a Christian, I was indoctrinated with the idea that love entails willing the good of the other and acting on such intentions.
	Given the definition of love as our involuntary response to virtue, how do I account for the impulse to act benevolently towards others, even strangers, in ways that exceed what is necessary for my own benefit and survival?
	Go ahead, Kev.
	I think we may be mashing a few things together there, Brother Kev.
	Okay.
	So you're talking about love and then you're talking about feeling charitable to strangers?
	Well, yeah.
	But those aren't the same thing.
	So you don't love the strangers, right?
	Sure.
	And that's just...
	Wait, sure what?
	Sure you do or sure you don't?
	Well, let me back up a second.
	I was reading real-time relationships back in June, and that's where I came upon this definition of love is our involuntary response to virtue.
	So that created the mash-up, in a sense, that I had been living basically all my life with I guess for simplicity's sake, we'll say the Christian idea of love, which elevates the needs of others and emphasizes selflessness.
	And these ideas kind of collided in my mind.
	And so I guess my first framing of this question was like, whoa, how do I sort this out?
	Because I've been living my life.
	I'm so sorry, I've got to just, I'm not sure what we're trying to sort out.
	Can you give me, so do you sort of, I mean, do you agree, I'm not saying is it true, but do you at least agree with the proposition that love is a response to virtue, if we're virtuous, it's an involuntary response.
	It's not something you can will or squeeze out of your heart like toothpaste.
	Yeah, I think now having read Real-Time Relationships, and I've also read On Knowledge, On Truth, where you talk about this some more.
	Yeah, I think that that's a persuasive and, for me, an enlightening definition of love.
	Okay, but now is it helping strangers that is a challenge for you?
	So that's what has been until now, yeah.
	Okay, and how does, are you saying, how does love fit into helping strangers?
	I guess I'm trying to draw a clear distinction in my mind between the kind of love you're talking about when you say love is our involuntary response to virtue and the kind of love that was always stressed In my growing up, in my education, and so forth, that love is, you know, meeting the needs of others, and so forth.
	And...
	Well, that's just exploitive bullshit, isn't it, that's taught, right?
	Meet my needs, right?
	Oh, sure.
	I mean, if I teach you that love is meeting my needs, isn't that just kind of selfish?
	Instead of teaching you that love is meeting my needs, why don't I just meet all your needs until you understand it implicitly, right?
	Well, that would be the better way.
	And in fact, the way I was taught.
	Not if you want to exploit people, it wouldn't be the better way.
	It would have been the better way for me to have learned it.
	For the quality of my life.
	Yeah, no, I was taught this in a way that, you know, with adults saying to me, you know, don't be selfish.
	Don't think about your own needs.
	Think about the needs of others.
	And they were telling me these things precisely because I was asserting my own needs and it was inconvenient for them.
	Okay, so they said, don't be selfish, right?
	Don't think of your own needs.
	Think about the needs of others.
	But how in that formulation are they thinking about your needs?
	Well, they weren't.
	I think my needs were being inconvenient for them at the time.
	So, obviously, that's just bullshit that people are saying.
	Yeah.
	Because if I say, like, that's just a performative contradiction, to use a technical phrase, or a self-detonating statement.
	Don't be selfish.
	Don't think about your own needs.
	Think about other people's needs.
	Well, in that moment, are they thinking about your needs?
	No.
	Then it's just a bunch of bullshit, right?
	Right.
	Don't have needs because...
	Your needs are inconvenient to my narcissistic self, right?
	That's the honest statement that they can't say because narcissists know how desperately good people want to think of themselves as good and use that as pushing the button to control the marionettes of humanity, right?
	Right.
	I mean, I used to get that shit too, right?
	And I did.
	I mean, when I got older, I'd say, okay, well...
	How has that philosophy been applied from you to me?
	My mother would say, don't be selfish, right?
	Right.
	I'd say, well, think about the needs of others.
	It's like, okay, but what are my needs?
	Because if she's such an expert on thinking about the needs of others and focusing on the needs of others and satisfying the needs of others, then she should damn well have some goddamn clue about what my needs are, right?
	But she never did.
	So it's like, oh yeah, fuck off then.
	It's a bunch of bullshit.
	Yeah, well, and it took reading your book and coming across this definition of love to sort of explode that idea in my head.
	That, wait a minute.
	Yeah, this is bullshit.
	I guess what I'm still trying to sort out is that there are still times when I feel the impulse to be helpful to someone.
	Oh, no, no, no.
	Come on, come on.
	No, don't do that.
	Don't do that.
	Don't do that.
	Because I'm saying that love is a response to the virtue of others.
	And now you're trying to talk about being helpful.
	Okay.
	Which is like saying, I want an orgy, right?
	And you're saying, well, I want to kiss my grandmother on the cheek.
	Does that mean I have to invite her to an orgy?
	It's like, no.
	That's not the same scale, right?
	Yes, that's a rather disturbing image.
	I don't know.
	But the reality is being helpful to other people is fine.
	Like...
	I don't like to talk about my charity much, but it's important here.
	My wife and I sponsor some kids around the world.
	We've got the right charity and they give them the right stuff and all that.
	It's not these poor kids' fault that they're in this situation.
	So we sponsor some kids around the world.
	Now, do I love these children?
	I don't.
	I admire them.
	You know, and I think it's great that I can give them some opportunities and some medicine and some food and education, at least literacy and so on.
	So, but do I love these children?
	I admire them.
	I think it's great.
	And I'm certainly happy to help them.
	But I would not say that it's a love.
	Because, I mean, love, my wife, you know, my daughter, my friends, and I love the people I admire and respect their virtue and so on and strive to earn that myself.
	But I can't use the same word for children that we sponsor as my wife, who is the mother of my child and the mistress of my heart and all this kind of stuff.
	So I can't use...
	Now, if I say, well, I can only want to help other people that I truly love, that's really going to limit my capacity to be charitable in the world, right?
	Right.
	So I need to start making this distinction then and use the word love about those handful of relationships in my life.
	Yeah, I mean, look, I can give a homeless guy $10.
	That doesn't mean I have to give him a handjob, too, right?
	Right.
	So...
	I might want to.
	In fact, that might be the price of my $10.
	But, I mean, I don't have to have sex with the guy.
	I have sex with my wife, but...
	I could give the money to the homeless guy, but it doesn't mean I have to have sex with him, or ask him to move in, or say let's adopt children together, or whatever, right?
	Right.
	So what I would have said to you, say back in June, before I started reading RTR, I would have said, oh yeah, you are loving those children that you're sponsoring.
	That's what love is.
	But what is what love is?
	What would you have said?
	Being considerate of their needs and doing something to help their needs and expressing goodwill toward them.
	So if I understand what you're saying, I need to draw a distinction in both my thinking and my language and use the word love for those relationships that really are characterized by this response to virtue.
	Yeah, because it's where this stuff lands, right?
	So if there's a guy who's unjustly imprisoned, then I may send him Books, money, food, whatever.
	I may send that because it's unjustly imprisoned and a poor guy and whatever I can do to help, right?
	On the other hand, if he's a convicted child rapist and murderer and he's imprisoned, I'm not sending him that stuff, right?
	Rot in jail, rotten hell for all I care, right?
	Two people in prison, one gets help and charity from me, the other one gets a spit through the bars if I'm ever in spitting distance, right?
	Right.
	So it has to do with the ethics of the person on the receiving end.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, it does.
	It does.
	You know, if the kids I'm sponsoring send me a letter bomb...
	I'm fairly sure that the sponsorship check would be a little bit tougher to write the next month, right?
	No more $25 a month or whatever it is.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Well, I think this clears up the kind of confusion I've had since coming across this idea that I've continued to conflate these two ideas under the term love.
	And I've been trying to...
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Listen, everybody wants to get on the love bandwagon.
	Like, there's nothing I won't do for my daughter.
	There's nothing I won't do for my wife.
	And everybody wants to get into that category so that they can take my time and shit, right?
	Sure.
	So, everybody wants to get in the love wagon.
	Get on the love wagon, you get free goodies, right?
	To me, charity has...
	Some restrictions.
	This is not any kind of ultimate philosophical statements.
	This is my personal approach.
	So there's a couple of questions I ask myself when it comes to issues of charity.
	So the first question is, is the person responsible?
	Just pretend it's a guy.
	Is the person responsible for his own issues?
	Okay.
	Right?
	If so, it doesn't mean I won't help.
	But it does mean that that's kind of like a bit of a checkbox, right?
	The second is, is the money going to do them any good?
	A guy who's just gambled his house away is going to be desperate to get money from me.
	Is it sensible charity to give it to him?
	No.
	No, he's responsible for his own mistake and giving him money is not going to do him any good, right?
	It's like buying alcohol for the alcoholic.
	Hey, it's charity.
	No, it's enabling, right?
	Right.
	And those are questions that are dynamic.
	So a while back ago, a listener came from a terrible childhood and he was a young guy and he was broke and he was going to get kicked out of his apartment and be homeless.
	So I wired him a thousand dollars.
	And I did a call with him to help him get a job.
	And he got a job, and he said he was going to pay me back.
	And I'm like, sure, great.
	You know, $10 a month, I don't care.
	Whatever.
	Because I think it's good.
	It's useful.
	I'm not his parent, and I don't...
	I didn't care if he didn't, but if he wanted to, that was nice.
	And so, anyway, the kid was up all night playing video games and kept sleeping in, lost his job, and ended up in a homeless shelter.
	I'm never getting that money back.
	But if you ask me for money again, I'd be like, sorry, you know, I... I tried that already.
	And sometimes it works out when I give money to listeners and sometimes it doesn't and I'm still learning.
	And, you know, if you are actually charitable and give people stuff and follow it up, you recognize just how difficult and complicated a job charity is and how utterly impossible it is for government to do it.
	I mean, charity is like surgery.
	You don't let the government call an airstrike in a village and say they did an appendectomy.
	It's true that some appendices may be out of the people's bodies, but unfortunately so are their eyeballs and kidneys and hearts and all splattered against the wall.
	So when you do actually give money to people and try to help people and follow it up with personal attention, you realize just how incredibly difficult and complicated charity is.
	Charity that helps people in a meaningful and positive way is.
	And I'm certainly no expert.
	There's times when I'll do it.
	And I've offered, of course, on this show many times to pay for people's therapy if they're broke and so on.
	And I've offered to help people in a variety of ways and followed through it in a variety of ways.
	And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
	I'm scarcely an expert on charity.
	But I certainly do try to do what I can to help.
	But man alive, it is incredibly tough.
	Charity is a kind of drug.
	And sometimes morphine is really good.
	I'm glad I had morphine when I got my scar neck.
	But sometimes morphine is really bad and highly addictive.
	And managing charity is like managing any addictive substance.
	It's really important at certain times in your life.
	And it is incredibly dangerous in terms of demotivating people, causing dependency, and so on.
	So it can be a leg up for sure, or it can drag you down as well.
	So it is really a challenging and complicated business to get into.
	It's not a business of mine.
	I mean, I give the podcast away.
	I mean, I sort of request payment after a while, but I guess you could call that a kind of charity for sure.
	I'm not a charity, right?
	But people can certainly, the majority of people listen for free.
	Or rather they listen because other people are willing to pay.
	Parasites are their generous donators.
	But when you actually do get involved in helping people, it becomes financially in particular.
	I think advice or feedback or philosophy or whatever you call these call-in shows is one thing.
	But when you start giving people material resources, it's really challenging and really complicated.
	And I pick and choose my charities very carefully.
	I pick and choose people I help out financially very carefully.
	And, you know, like back in the day, you know, I still consider this to be true.
	But I used to say, people would say, I really want your books.
	You know, I don't have internet, I don't, right?
	But I really want your books.
	But I can't afford them.
	I'd say, right, I'll send them to you for free.
	And this happened, I don't know.
	50, 75, 100 times, I can't remember, that I just send the books out for free.
	I don't know.
	Did people say, well, the book is free, so I'll get to it when I get to it because I haven't invested anything in getting the book?
	Or did they say, wow, that's fantastic.
	I really appreciate that the books are free.
	I've given books out for free to people who came up for the barbecues.
	I like to, but I don't know if it works out or not.
	Tracking the effectiveness of charity is incredibly complicated.
	And of course, it's the government, doesn't it?
	They're just buying votes and keeping fat-ass bureaucrats their comfy chairs.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	No, I was just agreeing with your comment about the government.
	Yeah, I mean, people, I think people should be helped at times.
	There, you know, one or two times in my life, I really needed money.
	Like, I was like, Jesus, I am completely broke, and I got to pay rent.
	And I borrowed from people, and I would then pay them back as soon as humanly possible.
	And other times I have lent friends money.
	And, you know, unfortunately that often falls under Shakespeare's dictum.
	If you lend money to your friends, you're most likely to lose both your money and your friendship.
	I've lent money to girlfriends and really had to badger them to get it back.
	And, you know, to me, if I lend money to someone, if they can't pay it back, you know, just keep me informed.
	Just keep me informed.
	It's when you just get that Weasley avoidance shit, that bugs the shit out of me.
	And so, yeah, I've also been in a difficult situation.
	I lent money to a girlfriend and then we broke up.
	And that's complicated, right?
	I know you don't like me and I'm not sure I like you very much, but you need to give me that $2,400 back or whatever it was.
	This is like 20 years ago.
	So...
	Charity is a very complicated business.
	It's a very challenging business.
	It's nothing that I'd want to do full-time.
	Let me tell you something.
	I was at the park the other day.
	I'm going to repeat this, I think, in the Anna Kasparian response video.
	I was in the park the other day.
	There was this woman who was like a tragic stereotype.
	Overweight, tattoos, smoking away.
	She was chatting with This other woman.
	And I wrote down the conversation when I got back to the car.
	And it went really something like this.
	She said, I just don't know how people can't afford to pay their bills.
	This makes no sense to me at all.
	I mean, there's so many days in the month.
	And I get $500 from the government for each child.
	And then I get my OW payment.
	And I looked it up.
	That's called Ontario Works.
	It's a welfare program or something like that.
	And I get this supplement and I get that and I put all that money together and I divide it by the number of days and I deduct my rent and I deduct my bills and I subsidize this and I've got subsidized that and this and that and the other, right?
	I don't know how people can't just make it to the end of their month.
	I mean, you get the money, you've got the days, you just put the money into the days and that's it.
	The other one was like, oh yeah, totally.
	I mean, how is it so complicated?
	You get 500 bucks per kid, you get your Ontario Works, you get your free dentistry, you get your this, you get your that.
	And they went through the whole list of all of the government programs that they were.
	If my daughter hadn't been there, I'd have marched right over and said, you goddamn parasites, get out of my wallet.
	And to be honest, this woman was not exactly a quality parent.
	You know, I mean, the park says five and up, and her two-year-old son was climbing up all over these rocks, and I've got one hand on my daughter, and I, you know, got one hand on this other kid and helping him down off the rocks, and she's off there smoking away and chatting about, you know, these aren't kids to her.
	They're tax hostages.
	They're livestock.
	They milk money.
	They produce government cheese, which she can eat.
	Never saw a dad.
	Seen her once or twice.
	I never see a dad around.
	Now, how the fuck is welfare helping these people?
	And the reason I'm incensed about it is I grew up around a lot of these women.
	You know, people don't tell me about the poor.
	I grew up among the poor.
	I mean, for most people telling me about the poor, it's like, God damn it.
	It's like a bunch of tighty-whities going down to the ghetto and telling a guy who grew up in the ghetto, a black guy who grew up in the ghetto, here's the black experience.
	You don't understand the black experience because I come from Hyannisport.
	I come from the Kennedy compound.
	You don't understand the black experience, my brother.
	Like, I just got to ship these people one day.
	It's like, I grew up...
	I mean, these women were constantly talking about all the free government cheese and where to go to get it and what to say and how to apply.
	I mean, they knew how to milk the system.
	God damn!
	Do you think I don't have any exposure to the poor?
	Are people going to tell me I grew up poor in England?
	I grew up poor in Canada.
	I mean, we moved so many times, I grew up poor in different neighborhoods.
	Can I ask you a question about that?
	Because it happens that my job, I work in a poor neighborhood and part of my job is managing a couple of programs that are there to help people in the neighborhood.
	For instance, I manage a food pantry.
	And from conversations that I have with some of these people, I get the impression that the way that people go out, earn a living, manage to A Ford, a nice house, a nice car.
	That is a complete mystery to them.
	They haven't seen it done.
	It hasn't been modeled for them.
	And it might as well happen by magic for all.
	I mean, was that your impression growing up as a poor kid?
	Well, I mean, this is what makes me so angry about the welfare state.
	It makes me so angry about the welfare state.
	So I was looking at this woman, fat, smoking, tattooed, shitty haircut, terrible clothes woman who's just basically pumping out kids with nameless guys because what are her choices?
	And the statistics are pretty clear.
	Dumb people are much more likely to end up on welfare for a variety of reasons.
	First of all, A smart person knows that welfare is a trap.
	He knows that once you get into the welfare lifestyle, it's really hard to get out.
	So in America and in Canada, you have to make between $50,000 and $60,000 a year to get the same goodies that you get being on welfare.
	And the longer you're on welfare and the more kids you have, the less chance you have of ever bridging that gap.
	Which is why it's like a fucking roach motel.
	You know, poor people check in, they just don't check out.
	Right?
	Right, right.
	And so a smart person looks and says, okay, well, if I go on welfare, yeah, I'll get my immediate needs met.
	But what the hell is going to happen when I'm 40 or 30?
	Right?
	That's terrible.
	And a smart person knows that they're going to do a lot better by avoiding welfare, getting a job, keeping a job, working, and just, right?
	I would have been way better off being on welfare when I was young.
	But I'm way better off Now that I never took welfare, now that I'm not young.
	Right.
	And so that's sort of one thing, is that smart people say, well, that's like heroin.
	Makes you feel good in the moment, screws up your life in the long run.
	And smart people are smart enough to get that, and so they avoid welfare like the plague.
	Right?
	And none of the smart...
	I grew up...
	I feel like Malcolm Gladwell and his friends.
	I grew up with a weirdly smart group of kids.
	Right?
	And most of us went on to do some, like, two of them, a professor, one of them is an entrepreneur, one of them is a successful artist.
	Like, we all went on to do, we just went this weird little cluster of smart kids to bovine single moms.
	And none of us went on welfare.
	But you see, the Dower kids were like, yeah, it's a good deal, right?
	It's like there's a movie, I mentioned this before, there's a movie called News...
	Shit.
	I can't remember.
	Anyway, and there's this guy who's like being beaten up.
	He's a smart kid, Jewish kid, I think.
	He's being beaten up by all these guys.
	And he's like, you guys are never going to make more than $19,000 a year.
	And he's like, this is the worst conceivable insult, right?
	And they're all walking away going, hey, 19K. Pretty fucking good.
	Yeah.
	I mean, yeah, that sounds great, right?
	So what's the worst insult for him is like a pretty good gig for them.
	So I was looking at this woman at the park, you know, fat, tattooed, smoking, two kids she's ignoring while she's nattering on about how to further stick her proboscis up the ass of the taxpayer and suck their lifeblood dry, right?
	And I'm thinking, okay, so she has kids.
	She doesn't have to work.
	She goes to the park.
	She goes to the park.
	Mm-hmm.
	She's probably getting maybe $2,200 a month tax-free.
	I don't know.
	There's so many weird calculations, right?
	She's getting maybe $2,200 a month tax-free, right?
	Right.
	And a whole parade of other stuff, including public school, which is a massive subsidy, right?
	Sure.
	And, yeah, right, Sue, in the chat window, she doesn't even have to parent.
	Doesn't even have to parent.
	Because other people will worry about her meal tickets, right?
	Right.
	And I'm thinking, okay, so what are her choices here?
	Let's say, what is she giving up to come to the park?
	Well, let's say she's got an IQ of 90, 95 or whatever, right?
	So what's she going to do?
	Is she going to go and be a waitress?
	Is she going to be a maid?
	Is she going to flip burgers?
	Is she going to go...
	What's she going to go do?
	So what is she really giving up going on welfare?
	Not much.
	It's not like she's going to go be a Broadway director, right?
	Or some amazing entrepreneur, or she's going to invent the world's greatest mousetrap, right?
	Or just make a decent living in middle management somewhere.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Or, you know, be a salesman for a car dealership or something.
	She's not giving any of that stuff up.
	Now, the tragic thing is that I don't know what her potential could be.
	Because some people do rise to the occasion.
	In fact, I would argue a lot of people rise to the occasion.
	I mean, for sure, if the welfare state stopped tomorrow, people wouldn't just be starving in the streets.
	They'd be like, oh, shit, well, that gig's up.
	And this is regularly recorded, right?
	Canada slashed welfare rates in the 90s.
	And people went, oh, well, go get a job.
	Nice while it lasted, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	And of course, those people are way better off now.
	Way better off.
	They have job experience.
	They have savings.
	On welfare, you don't get savings.
	They're not net drains on society as a whole.
	Their kids are growing up seeing them work with work experience, with work wisdom, work communication, how to get a job, how to keep a job, how to deal with workplace conflicts and all that kind of stuff.
	So this woman is truly being fucked over by her system.
	And that's bad enough.
	That's bad enough.
	But her goddamn kids are being fucked over even more.
	And that's what bothers me the most.
	The most is these kids.
	Whose mom is not paying them any attention, who are actually in danger sometimes.
	I mean, the two-and-a-half-year-old kid was about to jump off literally a five-foot wall because he's not supposed to be up there.
	So, the idea that the poor are all victims, and it's like, this woman is not a victim in a direct way.
	She's definitely a victim in an indirect way in that the system is set up to the point where her capacity to intelligently make long term good decisions has been really blunted by a system that rewards the worst aspects of her behavior in the here and now and withholds all the positive rewards for better behavior into the possible distant future.
	Right.
	And it really...
	It really bothers me when people just say, well, if you're against the welfare state, you must just fucking hate the poor.
	It's like, no, no, no, man.
	You don't know.
	You don't know.
	If you're for the welfare state, you really hate the poor.
	You really, really hate the poor.
	It's like saying, well, if you're against heroin, you just hate heroin addicts.
	It's like, no, no, no, no.
	If you're against heroin, you love heroin addicts because you want them to not be heroin addicts.
	And right now, People, because it's been multi-generational now, people are basically born addicted to welfare.
	They might as well be born addicted to crack because they grow up in families where there has been for not one or two generations anybody working.
	20% of American households, not one person is working.
	Is that what we call helpful charity?
	I see the effects of that system every day on people's lives.
	Yeah, it's horrible.
	And it's so disrespectful of the poor.
	Do people think that if you're poor, you can't calculate cost-benefits?
	Christ, monkeys can calculate cost-benefits.
	I'm not saying all the poor are monkeys.
	I'm saying that if monkeys can do it, the poor can do it.
	And the poor can.
	They can totally do it.
	You start threatening what the poor perceive as benefits, they're out en masse.
	They know where their bread is buttered on.
	No.
	And I, you know, I'm a repentant left liberal.
	And, you know, one of the things that I've come to realize in the process of changing my mind greatly is how patronizing that position is that, you know, well, the poor people are helpless.
	They can't make decisions.
	They can't go out and...
	Well, absolutely, because we've got to keep the Democrats in power.
	And do you mind if I just share with something even more personal?
	Sure.
	The poor end up outside the flow and feedback of society, the welfare poor.
	And this is so fundamental that unless you've lived in it, it's really hard to get it.
	Unless you've grown up in it, it's really hard to get it.
	When the church used to give out or when lodges or when other charities used to give out money, they rolled up their sleeves and they got the fuck involved with people.
	They would go over, they would visit, they would offer them work, they'd offer them childcare, they'd bring over food, they'd ask them what they needed, they'd encourage them, they would get involved at a personal level to help turn around a situation of destitution.
	That connection with the community It's something that the welfare state, like a neutron bomb, has radiated out of Western society.
	The welfare state, by pumping money at people with no human connection.
	Here's your check.
	Here's your check.
	Got your vote?
	Good.
	Here's your check.
	Vote?
	Yeah.
	Here's your check.
	Here's your check.
	No connection.
	No human connection.
	No human feedback.
	No contact.
	No community.
	No encouragement.
	No challenge.
	No potential rejection.
	No community standards.
	Money, money, money.
	Vote, vote, vote.
	Money, money, money.
	Vote, vote, vote.
	They don't give a shit about the poor.
	People who say, well, I care about the poor.
	Go visit them.
	Go get involved in their lives.
	Go talk to them.
	Go understand them.
	And understand the degree to which the welfare state has created this reality moat around poor people and almost utterly cut them off from any other society around and kept them only around people like themselves.
	Isolated.
	Hived them off.
	Put them into an isolation tank.
	A cyst of financial dependence.
	And I will...
	Tell you at the most personal level that the welfare state has stripped me of the power to positively influence my mother.
	My mother does not listen to reason, but like most human beings still this side of the grave, she will listen to incentives.
	Now the government fires money at my mother with zero requirements.
	Here's your money.
	Here's your subsidized rent.
	Here's your free dental care.
	Here's your free health care.
	Here's your subsidized rent.
	Here's your money.
	Here's your money.
	Got your vote?
	Good, good.
	Here's your money.
	Here's your money, right?
	Right.
	And what that means is I can't help her because she won't listen to reason.
	Now, if I were paying her bills, which I actually would be pretty happy to do and have done at various points in my life, if I were paying her bills, I could say, Mom, I'm happy to pay your bills.
	But you have to do a few things.
	Right?
	You have to get a little bit of therapy.
	I'm not talking a lot.
	But you have to try and deal with some of these extreme emotional issues that you have.
	Right?
	You have to take better care of yourself.
	Right.
	I won't get into the whole list.
	Sure.
	But the welfare state has stripped me completely of any ability that I might have for any incentivized behavior with my mother because the government takes the money from me at gunpoint and hands it over to my mother, which seals her off from any capacity or requirement for change in a communal setting.
	The isolation of welfare, and by that I don't just mean the isolation of From any kind of society, because people on welfare will often hang out with each other, but all they do is reinforce each other.
	Like a whole bunch of drunks who hang out with each other drinking are not doing anything to break the cycle.
	They're just reinforcing, they're propping each other like up, like dawn drunkards.
	But it's a cultural isolation.
	Because the bureaucrats take the money from hardworking people at gunpoint and fire it down the vote-spewing moors of the poor and don't give a fuck about them after that.
	Don't require them to change, don't require them to improve, don't challenge them or anything.
	And so the poor, the welfare dependent, the single moms, those who basically are just hanging off the teats of the state, they are left behind.
	In a society that is moving forward.
	They are the stragglers there to be picked off by the politicians and the bureaucrats in return for political power.
	They are left behind.
	And there's whole sections of Western society that are falling backwards into Spenumland, into the Middle Ages.
	Falling back into the dark ages, losing the capacity for work and responsibility and efficacy and effort and ethics and education.
	They're falling back because they pay them, they take their fucking votes, and they give them not one tiny little springy kanji-shaped shit about them after that.
	Here's your money.
	Got the vote.
	Bye!
	Actually, they don't even say bye.
	And...
	All economic cause and effect, all capacity for familial, intimate, loving, or communal, or charitable intervention is gone.
	All standards are gone.
	All requirements are gone.
	All capacity for change that comes from outside is gone.
	And what the poor need is contact, The poor who don't want to be poor, right?
	They need contact.
	They need encouragement.
	They need commitment.
	They need intimacy.
	They need friends who are functional.
	And the welfare state seals them all.
	Because functional people will go around, poor people, and they will encourage them to do better if that's what they want, and they will help them to do better.
	But there is some requirement for decent behavior, right?
	You don't get to stay in rehab if you keep drinking.
	All who help the dysfunctional have standards of behavior except the state.
	The only standard of behavior the state has is vote away the children's lives of the hardworking.
	Once you've got that, here's all the pablum, all the lions and circuses, all the bread and circuses, all the government cheese you want.
	Just give us political power and give us the votes.
	So this idea that I don't care about the poor is...
	I mean, it's a truly tragic and blind idea.
	I know about, care about more of the poor.
	I mean, I spent my first near quarter century in poverty.
	And I grew up among it.
	I went to school among it.
	I was 25 when I couldn't pay my rent.
	And had to beg for money.
	And the idea that I don't know about or have no sympathy for or don't understand the poor, I mean, it's just ridiculous.
	They're just crippling people to make them dependent on the state.
	They are drug dealers with cash heroin.
	That's all they are.
	It's vile.
	But sorry, you were going to say?
	No, I was going to say, given your experience, I mean, it's personally insulting to you.
	Oh, if only I cared enough about these people to be insulted by them.
	I really can't.
	I mean, the idea is personally insulting to me when people are idiots.
	I mean, I wouldn't even get out of bed.
	I'd be so insulted by the planet, right?
	All right, listen, I'm going to move on with one final caller.
	Mike, do you want to pop them on?
	Absolutely.
	Next up is Danny, and Danny wrote in and said, How do you think the built environment affects human behavior?
	Do you think there's a correlation between the problems of child abuse and broken families with the high-stress, automobile-dependent suburban lifestyle many of us live today?
	Well, not the suburban lifestyle because there's very few single moms who end up in the suburbs, right?
	Yeah.
	Hi, Stefan.
	Most of the single moms are like bus rides and government-sponsored taxi chits and free bus passes, and they're not out in the suburbs, right?
	Right, right.
	Well, I was really curious about just how you thought that the built environment affected human behavior.
	I mean, I know that...
	I guess you're saying that you think that the suburbs are a better place, but I was curious...
	No, no, I didn't say that.
	I didn't say that.
	I just say that that's not where usually the broken families.
	Broken families will sift down to rental units usually.
	Right, right.
	But I mean there's been a lot of changes too in cities.
	I mean a lot more people are moving back towards the downtown areas and there's a lot of architects and urban planners that believe that eventually the suburbs are going to kind of turn into the new ghettos essentially.
	Yeah, so I mean, there's been a move out to the suburbs to some degree because more concentrated population bases are easier to tax.
	So there's this donut phenomenon where taxes go way up in the city and then people want to flee outside the city.
	Also because the government usually doesn't, and I know this from personal business experience, the government has woefully underserviced the infrastructure.
	Because, you know, politicians, they like to cut new ribbons.
	I mean, who the hell gets political juice out of Repairing a sewer before it breaks, right?
	Right, right.
	And so the cities, they neglect the infrastructure and then they have to keep raising taxes to pay for the inevitable disasters that result from that.
	So people flee out to the suburbs.
	But the suburbs, of course, is dependent to some degree on the cheap price of gasoline, at least until there's more work-at-home scenarios, which are increasing over time.
	Right.
	You need a whole new generation of managers to understand the work-at-home stuff.
	But anyway, that's neither here nor there.
	So if the price of gasoline continues to go up or goes up, then suburbs will become progressively less positive.
	But it's interesting because people are choosing physical space over emotional connection, which I think is really interesting.
	People generally don't know their neighbors.
	And they usually move away from their family of origin.
	And so people are kind of choosing larger living spaces, and they're kind of cocooning in with their entertainment systems and their Xboxes and so on, rather than have any kind of connection.
	And that makes it pretty tough to raise kids.
	You can get away with that stuff when you're single or married couple without kids.
	Once you have kids, you really kind of need a community.
	It's not great for your kids if you don't.
	Right, right, yeah.
	So I don't know.
	I think that the best way to get a better environment is for people to be more likable.
	You know, for people to be more helpful, for people to be more positive, for people to be proactive.
	You know, yeah, I'd be happy to watch your kids for an hour or two.
	Go, you know, go to whatever, right?
	To get involved with each other, to be more positive and more helpful and proactive.
	Diversity is not helping with that.
	You know, I mean...
	Cultures inevitably tend to self-segregate, right?
	So you see this in prisons, the Hispanics go to that corner, the blacks go to that corner, the whites go to that corner, whatever, right?
	Same thing in churches.
	I think that there's like 85% of American churches are more than 85% segregated or something like that.
	Like the blacks go to this church and the whites go to this church and the Koreans go to that comment or whatever the hell they go.
	And so when you get more...
	Diversity, what is called diversity, when you get more incompatibility, which is generally what diversity means, when you get more incompatibility, the neighborhood cohesion tends to shatter, tends to diminish.
	And then you get further displacement because as more minorities move into a neighborhood, you generally get the well-known and well-understood phenomenon of diversity.
	Of white flight, which is why white people are like, damn, you know, I got to get out of this neighborhood.
	It's not just racism.
	I don't know if it is or it isn't, but it's basically because there's a very, very strong, I think it's 0.8, a very strong correlation between minority representation, particularly among blacks and Hispanics, and the crime rate of a community.
	So whites, you know, I don't know that there's a place in America where a A white neighborhood in America where a black man feels at risk walking down the street, but there's lots of black neighborhoods or Hispanic neighborhoods where a white person probably legitimately feels at some level of concern walking down the street.
	So there's lots of things that are pushing all of this mess that is going on in society, but...
	I think the basic anti-tribalism of the post-1960s era, which basically happened when the ruling classes wanted to justify mass immigration for votes and fun and profit, said, oh, there's a widening gap between the rich and the poor.
	It's like, well, stop importing so many poor people with few skills.
	Anyway, so there has been a huge amount of social engineering that's happened to formerly tribal and cohesive neighborhoods that has made It's much less enjoyable for people as a whole and has made it, you know, we are a tribal species and doesn't mean any tribe is better than any other tribe.
	It's just a basic fact.
	And you see this inner state of freedom, people tend to self-segregate.
	And this has been not positive for some government requirements or desires.
	And therefore, this cultural Marxism has promoted egalitarianism and diversity for all cultures and so on.
	And yet you'll sort of notice that the people who are most keen on diversity tend to be those, particularly if they're whites who are promoting diversity, they tend to end up moving to extremely white neighborhoods.
	Right.
	So Bill Clinton, after he left the White House, bought a house in the whitest neighborhood you could conceivably imagine where there was not a minority to be seen.
	For miles around who wasn't mowing the lawn.
	Ted Kennedy, who was very keen on bringing lots of non-European, non-Freeland Club members into America after the 1965 Immigration Act.
	Holy crap!
	I mean, where's the Kennedy compound?
	Is it about a Hyannis port?
	I mean, it's like the whitest neighborhood known to the mankind.
	And so it is ridiculously hypocritical.
	We do tend to want to be around people like ourselves.
	And again, that's not racial fundamentally at all.
	I mean, I'm much more comfortable with a black tranny anarchist than I am with a white fascist or something, right?
	Right.
	But I would sort of be very interested to see what society in a state, the society, I believe that there would be cultural self segregation.
	Segregation sounds like a bad word because, of course, it's got all these government connotations.
	But I think it would be interesting to see what would happen.
	I think there would be some very positive and beneficial self-segregation that would occur in a truly free society.
	And there would be, of course, people reaching out across the different cultures.
	I'm definitely a cross-cultural person in that context.
	And a cross-racial person in that philosophy doesn't care about culture other than it's a mortal enemy and doesn't care about race.
	So hands across the water, hands across the cultures, there will be people doing that.
	But there are also people who...
	I want to be, especially when you have so little time, if you're working and have kids, you just want to be around people that it's not a huge effort to struggle to understand the different values and different languages and like, oh my god, I don't have time.
	I just want to be around people I sort of understand where they're coming from and so on.
	Backpacking through Thailand is fantastic, but when you're juggling a job and kids and maybe aging relatives and so on, it's a little less fun to do some of the cross-cultural stuff.
	Yeah.
	I think it would, I don't know, this is all theoretical nonsense, but I think it would be interesting to see the degree to which cultures would self-segregate.
	We know that they do.
	I mean, Chinese people come to a new town, they go to Chinatown, there's Little Italy, there's Greek town, and people self-segregate for entirely understandable reasons.
	I guess just whites aren't allowed to do that.
	It's the usual double standard.
	Race doesn't exist if you're a white person talking about race.
	But affirmative action is highly necessary.
	Anyway, does that help at all?
	Yeah, yeah, it does.
	Well, it's interesting you bring that up because I come from an architecture background and architecture school is very, very politically correct.
	And, you know, they kind of force when you're doing design work to, you know, design buildings that enhance diversity, things like that.
	And there's all these sorts of theories and all sorts of things like that, that kind of go into How to make a city diverse by forcing people to do it through the way the building is designed, essentially.
	And I mean, you can go back through history and look at the way that buildings have been designed historically.
	And it was basically a combination of environmental factors, a lack of technology, along with the cultural and social norms at the time kind of dictated the way floor plans and things like that were laid out.
	So it's interesting to kind of consider...
	How race and this strive for diversity in society today is going to affect design in the future and how it would be different.
	Well, hang on a second.
	I mean, if you ever feel like getting flunked out, you could simply ask your white professors where they live.
	Right, right.
	I can virtually guarantee you that they are not living in the ghetto.
	Oh yeah, of course not.
	No, they're all living in...
	Diversity is for the other people, right?
	Diversity is not for the people with money who tend to retreat to their gated, monochromatic communities, right?
	Right, right, right.
	I mean, in Boulder, where I went to school, you know, Boulder has a growth ring around it so that, basically for environmental reasons, but according to the city, and it also has a four-story...
	It's a height limit on the city.
	And no poor people live in Boulder.
	And they're constantly asking in school, oh, well, how can we bring poor people into Boulder?
	And I sit there and consider to myself, well, maybe if we increase density and brought housing prices down, maybe that would have something to do with it, you know?
	Right.
	Right.
	Yeah, it's like public school education, right?
	The people on the left are all for public school education, but they sure as hell don't send their own kids to public schools, right?
	I mean, it's just ridiculous.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, right now we're all herded around with zoning laws and diversity programs and all this sort of stuff.
	And, you know, maybe I'm completely wrong.
	Maybe there would be this wonderful melting pot.
	It doesn't really seem to be the case.
	People tend to self-segregate by instinct.
	I mean, we are a tribal species.
	Right, right.
	And, I mean, there's wonderful things to be learned from other cultures, wonderful food, wonderful music, fantastic stuff to be learned from other cultures.
	And I'm certainly happy that there's more than one culture in the world.
	I think it's fantastic.
	But...
	It is generally easier when you have the same cultural background with people.
	And again, it's not race-based.
	I mean, a white guy who grew up in the outback of Australia versus a black guy who grew up, you know, two blocks from me in England, I'm way more in common with the black guy than with the white guy.
	It's not racial at all.
	But when time, you know, you run out of time when you get older.
	You know, when you're young, you know, all the time in the world, right?
	You run out of time when you get older.
	And this is because you're older.
	Like next month, I'll be 48 years old.
	Because you're older, you run out of time.
	And also because, especially if you become a parent, you have no goddamn time.
	No time.
	I don't want to learn how to eat at someone's home who's Japanese, right?
	I mean, when I was 20, yeah, I loved that shit.
	Fantastic.
	I traveled to Morocco, traveled to China.
	I loved it, you know, fantastic.
	Africa, love to travel, right?
	Now I'm like, oh man, I just, I mean, I don't have the time to do these hands across the water cross-cultural bridges because where's it going to lead anyway?
	So anyway, it's just something to, I'd be interested to see the degree to which I think there'd be opposing forces, there'd be self-segregation for efficiency, and there'd be cross-pollination for diversity, and I think it would be really fascinating to see.
	I don't think I'll live to see it, not because I'm dying, but just because it's a long way to go to a free society.
	But I would be fascinated to see how human beings evolve in the absence and where they evolve to and where they segregate or don't segregate to in a state of freedom.
	Right, right.
	Cool.
	Well, awesome.
	Thank you so much for taking my call.
	Thank you very much.
	I appreciate it.
	And I hope you get yourself some nice buildings to build.
	Oh, thank you.
	Very much appreciate it.
	All right.
	Talk to you later.
	Thanks everyone so much.
	Mike, did you want to add anything?
	No, we made it through all the callers today.
	That's awesome.
	It's like I didn't even read my own mission statement, which is to endlessly cock-block philosophical curiosity.
	Oh, yes.
	No, I didn't have anything poignant to add.
	Just please go watch the Robin Williams video, folks, and please do share it.
	Definitely want to say that again.
	Yeah, share it around.
	It's a good entry.
	It's a good entry, I think.
	And you know what?
	I actually – I could say this too.
	During the show, somebody sent this to me.
	A Telegraph article came out in the UK. Robin Williams' friend reveals actor resented having to do new Mrs.
	Doubtfire.
	Exclusive.
	Close friends has actor dreaded making films as they brought out his demons.
	It goes on to say that he was currently involved in four film projects, and he hated doing them because they were so draining, and he believed they left him prone to depression.
	So he hated doing the film projects, and that's why he was going towards TV. And it says he was hit hard when they canceled his TV show, The Crazy Ones, as it was helping pay the bills.
	He reportedly made $165,000 per episode for each episode in the first season.
	So it sounds like what we talk about in the Truth About Robin Williams piece, the more evidence that comes out, it's looking more and more accurate as well.
	Yeah, poor bastard.
	I mean, he had heart surgery.
	I mean, he had health problems and fucking court system in his ex-wife.
	It's just driving him like a dying donkey into the dust.
	I mean, just horrendous.
	There's even a quote about that.
	The last quote of the article is from his friend.
	He told me his heart surgery in 2009 had left him feeling like a mortal for the first time in his life, and he didn't like how that felt.
	Yeah.
	No, he needed R&R. The guy's looking at going back on the road.
	Being on the road is exhausting.
	And yeah, I mean, poor bastard.
	I mean, it's just, you know, I mean, whatever good you can get out of somebody's death is worth trying to extract.
	And I hope that this helps people to understand.
	I mean, it's not the only thing that killed him.
	And it's not, you know, who knows, right?
	What factor it played.
	But by God, it was a factor.
	And it would be really great to To talk about it.
	And you know, if people don't end up talking about it, fine.
	Then don't talk to me about the fucking patriarchy anymore.
	Yeah.
	Absolutely.
	Alright.
	Well, thanks everyone.
	Have a great, great week.
	We will talk to you again Saturday night.
	And fdrurl.com slash donate to help out the show.
	Remember, we've got this giant...
	MF of a bill coming in for over 7k for the success of the show.
	If you could chip in to help that out, we would massively appreciate it.
	And have yourself a wonderful, wonderful rest of the week.
	Thanks again to Mike and Stoyan for fantastic, fantastic research on the Robin Williams.
	And thanks to Mike again, as always, for being such a positive influence on these call-in shows and for making it run so smoothly despite my random tangents.
	Have yourselves a great night, everyone.

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