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May 19, 2014 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

03:24:24

2701 Penis, Balls and Chains - Saturday Call In Show May 17th, 2014

Is it objectively better to be in touch with your feelings? Should I tell my parents about my secret Girlfriend? How do I avoid the friend zone? Also includes, nature is disgusting, emotions as toxicity in a sick society, putting your penis on a leash, personality as destiny, born to a racist poison womb, an actual white knight and dodging stupid dicks while still avoiding the gay friend zone.

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	Good evening, everybody.
	Oh my God, it's Saturday night!
	Hope you're doing well.
	This is the Shifto show to Saturday night, 8 p.m.
	Eastern Standard Time, because after much review of the cadence and rhythm and pace of the Sunday morning show, we have begun to realize that neither myself, nor Mike, nor about 130% of the listeners Our morning people.
	No farmers in our background.
	The back 40 remains unhoed.
	The farmers' cows remains unmilked.
	But Saturday nights, baby, we're live.
	I guess that's the reason why comedy shows don't go on at 10 a.m.
	when everybody's observing the Denny's Buffet through one bloodshot.
	Eyebrow.
	So, yeah, we're moving to Saturday nights, 8 p.m.
	Eastern.
	And I think it's going to be...
	I've had two lattes in a row.
	And I think we are set to go.
	Mike, we're done the show, right?
	I believe it all just went by in a blur.
	But I think we're done.
	What a great job I did.
	Couldn't be better.
	All right, Steph is heavily caffeinated, so let me just announce these speaking dates real quick so we can get on with the show.
	We got the Toronto Domestic Violence Symposium coming up June 6th and 7th in downtown Toronto.
	You can get more information on that at torontodv.com, torontodv as in domesticviolence.com.
	And also the International Conference on Men's Issues, which will be June 26th through 28th in Detroit, Michigan.
	Really, if you are within anywhere close to Detroit, Michigan, you're going to want to come out to this one.
	You can get more information and buy your tickets ahead of time at avoiceformen.com.
	That's avoiceformen.com.
	Karen Stronger writes what's going to be there.
	Warren Farrell's going to be there.
	Paul Elam's going to be there.
	Steph's going to be there.
	Lots of people are going to be there.
	Should be a really good time.
	I'm going to be there.
	And a bunch of other listeners are coming down as well.
	So make your way to that one if you can.
	But I think that's it for announcements.
	If...
	You're ready to go, Steph.
	I am ready as well.
	In Detroit, you will witness the future of freedom amid a landscape of terminal statism.
	And I think that contrast should be worth it, first and foremost.
	But, all right, Mike!
	Go ahead.
	All right, nicely put until that...
	You know, you play that down slower later, it's in a yellow song backwards.
	But go ahead.
	Okay.
	All right, up first is Ricardo.
	And Ricardo wrote in and said, I would like to ask you why you think it's objectively better to be in touch with your feelings, thoughts, and emotions than to not be objectively in touch with your feelings, thoughts, and emotions.
	All right.
	Do you want to expand on the question?
	Do you want me to take a swing at it as it stands?
	No, you can go ahead.
	Well, let's start with...
	Look, the physical sensations as a whole are just one extreme or one more embodied aspect of sensation.
	So, as you probably know, there's all of this fantastic wiring in your spine, and what that wiring does is if your hand touches something hot, the Heat goes up your arm to your spine and your spine says, pull those fingers away before it ever reaches your brain.
	Like you've probably had it where you've touched something hot, you've moved your hand back, you've jerked it back, and then you notice like, wow, damn, that's hot.
	And then you put some butter on it or whatever, right?
	So, we have, at that very basic level, we obviously want that, right?
	I think we can agree that we want our body to process physical pain.
	Would you agree with that?
	Yes, of course.
	Now, your existence, and my existence, and everyone else's existence, and every other living being's existence, pretty much, is based upon desire.
	You know, sexual desire is insane.
	I mean, I think we can all understand it.
	Take this tube, put it in this hole, rub it back and forth, squirt, sleep.
	I mean, it's...
	I guess for the woman it's like, get restless and stare at your man resentfully.
	Well, that's a different matter.
	But...
	So, pleasure is why we're here.
	It makes no sense.
	Sex, you know, from a dejective standpoint.
	Like, if you can imagine Jabba the Hutt from Star Wars has a girlfriend, and I can guarantee you it would not be one of the few times that Carrie Fisher was thin in her life.
	It would not be her, right?
	I mean, if you've seen the movie, I think it's the second Star Wars where...
	Princess Leia is in this gold bikini and she's on a chain and she's like the sex pet of Jabba the Hutt.
	Now, Jabba the Hutt would be about as likely to keep Carrie Fisher as a sex pet as Carrie Fisher would be to keep SpongeBob SquarePants as a sex pet.
	I mean, it just is not compatible.
	It doesn't work, right?
	He would find Carrie Fisher about as sexy as Carrie Fisher finds him, which, you know, if she's not into Rob Ford, would not be something that would work.
	So...
	If you think of some space aliens, think of the aliens from, like, the alien movies in the Alan Dean Foster novels.
	I mean, they have sex, you know, and it's really, really disgusting.
	Like, in the second alien movie, Sigourney Weaver's character goes into the bowels of, I can't remember, the birthing place, and it's like, it's really, really vile and disgusting how there's this giant proboscis spitting out these eggs.
	Or if you ever see, like, a queen...
	I mean, it's just hideous stuff, right?
	But that's like bee porn, and that's like spitting alien acid blood porn.
	I mean, that stuff is like, come to fix your cup here, ma'am.
	And it's gross as hell to us.
	And so, to other alien species, if they ever see human porn, they'd be like, oh my god, what is happening?
	That's disgusting!
	Why don't they just pull off each other's head and eat their spinal fluid like we do?
	So, Because desire and pain are the birth and protectors of life, of all life.
	So I think we can understand, like, just at the basic physical level, we kind of want that stuff.
	Like, if you have leprosy, you lose your nerve endings, right?
	You have to do what's called a VSE, which is a visual search of extremities.
	You have to keep checking your body to make sure that you don't have, like, a particular injury.
	You have to check because your body's not giving you those signals.
	So that's really bad.
	Can you agree at the basic physical level that stuff is really helpful and the reason why we're here?
	Oh yeah, definitely.
	What you said was really helpful because I always imagined I always thought that I always had a very biological perspective of the world and that led me to kind of confuse Morality with biology?
	Does that make any sense?
	Oh yeah, no, there's a big move underway, you know, so like the Harrises and the Dawkins and so on, and the Dysons, they're all, you know, we're going to try and found ethics in science, and it's absolutely not going to work.
	You can't do ethics with science any more than you can do physics with philosophy, but...
	There is.
	There is this drive to find a biological base.
	Like, oh, there's reciprocal altruism and so on.
	It's like, yeah.
	Well, fuck, in nature, you get these gator rolls where gators will rip the legs off a zebra.
	You know, it's horrible.
	Nature is completely horrible.
	I mean, the praying mantis, the female...
	It eats off the head of its mate, you know, one of the early, I guess, leaf-based feminists.
	I mean, nature is completely vile.
	I mean, every time I watch a nature show with my daughter, I mean, it's just hideous.
	Women, in general, see nature as this cooperative thing with my little ponies and all this and that.
	Nature is a complete sociopath.
	Nature is a fucking awful place to live and a good place to keep at bay.
	And so men understand that nature is brutal and competitive.
	And women, in general, sort of have this view that nature is like this Gaia web of life and all this kind of stuff.
	And I mean, you know, just walk in your underwear through a rainforest and you'll get like 9,000 tick-based disease in about eight seconds.
	And you'll die with your fingernails attempting to claw out your ice-ploding eyeballs.
	So...
	Yeah, nature's pretty horrible.
	You simply can't get ethics out of nature.
	Ethics is really the opposite of nature in many ways.
	You know, cannibalism happens all over the animal kingdom.
	Like, every time my daughter gets into some cool animal, like, hey, don't you really like frogs?
	Do you know what happens with frogs?
	They shed their own skin like a giant slimy body encasing booger and then eat it.
	And it's like, oh...
	Nature is just followed by, oh, as in something ripped somebody else's head off, or a, oh, they really do that?
	Oh my god, that's disgusting.
	And so I don't think you can get any kind of ethics out of nature.
	You know, there's a reason why zoo animals all have to be kept separate from each other, and that's because nature is like Ted Bundy on steroids.
	Nature's like Jeffrey Dahmer on a hunger binge on PCP. It's horrible.
	So, yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
	Biology is really important, and it's a great way to understand how we evolve, but it's something we sure as shit want to get away from, I think, right?
	Yeah, you're totally right.
	And just a little more, one extra question.
	Because I have this biological...
	Oh, I haven't answered your question yet, by the way.
	I'm just giving you some sort of perspective here, but I haven't actually done anything to answer your question.
	Because you were talking about feelings, not sensations, right?
	That was exactly what I was going to address.
	Yeah, so like pain is a sensation.
	Physical pain is a sensation.
	Bemused resignation or existential ennui, those are not sensations.
	Those would be more sophisticated feelings.
	So...
	I just really wanted to point out, I haven't actually answered your first question now.
	I'm just giving you a perspective on the value of sensation so we can talk about the value of emotion.
	Go ahead.
	I was just exactly now going to address the emotion stuff.
	Because of that biological perspective, my thoughts and emotions kind of go in conflict because I try to...
	I kind of try not to...
	Oh, I feel this, but according to moral standards, I shouldn't feel this?
	Does this make any sense?
	And then my conflicts between my emotions and thoughts is very aggressive.
	It causes me great anxiety.
	And I just wanted you to talk a little bit about that.
	Let me give you a tiny rant, if you don't mind, because otherwise I'm going to fart caffeine out of my armpits.
	Let me give you a tiny rant, and then we'll go more into detail about your emotions, if that's all right.
	And I think this rant will help give you some perspective on the value and disvalue of emotions in the modern world.
	Does that make any sense?
	Well, let me do it, and then you can tell me.
	Yeah, please.
	Yeah, okay.
	Well, let me first ask you a question.
	So if you were in chronic pain, if your legs were in chronic pain...
	Would you take painkillers?
	Yeah, of course.
	You would, right?
	I mean, you know, when I got operated on my neck, I was very happy to be, you know, dancing with foamy, rainbow-backed ukulele-strumming Unicorns through the puffy clouds of Neverland.
	It was a great thing.
	Painkillers is one of the great modern inventions that you don't really appreciate when you're young, I guess unless you have chronic sports injuries or whatever.
	But they can be very addictive and so on, but they're just amazing, wonderful things.
	Because if your body is in chronic pain, it can be very debilitating and your life can turn into a complete shit sandwich, which you may want to hit the eject button on in any particular situation.
	Sunny a.m., right?
	So the question is, I guess for me, what emotional responses are valid or accurate to the world that we live in?
	Not the physical world, like the natural world, but to the social world that we live in, right?
	And what do you think?
	Is a healthy emotional response to the world that we live in?
	I would say almost every emotion.
	It's kind of helpful to understand our environment.
	I think I know where you're getting at.
	Please, don't answer to please me.
	Conformity is not the perspective I'm looking for here.
	But, yeah, tell me what, to the social structure, to the status structure, to the child raising structure, to the cultural structures that we live in, what do you think is a healthy emotional response to that?
	Well, I didn't get what you meant.
	Okay, in which country do you live?
	Portugal.
	Portugal, okay.
	So, I mean, good for you, for guys, for decriminalizing drugs and all that, but in Portugal, if you're into philosophy, what's it like to speak the truth to the people around you?
	It's terrible.
	It's really...
	Go on.
	I was going to...
	I mean, it's really...
	Because when you kind of speak truth and facts, and when people...
	They really get anxious when they kind of dismiss the fact that I'm presenting and they kind of say, oh, I don't want to hear that.
	And that's basically it.
	Well I'll give you what I would consider to be a valid soundscape of a rational mind's connection to modern culture.
	It would be something like this.
	So modern culture comes riding over the hill into the mind of a child.
	And the child's like, oh, that's kind of shiny.
	That's kind of pretty.
	Oh, that's kind of hitty.
	That's kind of beady.
	I've got to go into what school?
	Where?
	What?
	We're going to sit in this row for how long?
	Ah!
	Those squeaky noises from the chalkboard are horrifying.
	I can't take it.
	Let's get outside.
	I'm so bored.
	I'm so bored.
	Oh, outside!
	Yay!
	Oh my god, some kid pushed me over.
	Oh, my face is mashed up against the fence.
	Somebody stole my boot.
	They are throwing my hat around and not letting me catch it because it's a game of Monkey in the Middle from Hell.
	Oh no!
	Oh, home, home, home, fun, fun, fun.
	Oh, computers.
	Oh, what, I got homework?
	How much homework?
	Are you kidding me?
	I don't want to do that.
	I want to go outside, play some games.
	I want to do some fun stuff.
	Mommy and Daddy are busy.
	Mommy and Daddy are busy.
	No fun, no fun, no fun.
	Oh, I don't want to go to bed.
	I'm wired from too much computer games because I have no human contact.
	Oh my god, I've woken up too early.
	I'm so tired.
	I'm too young to have any coffee and I'm so tired.
	And it's raining.
	Oh man.
	Here I am back in school.
	Hey!
	I love my country.
	My country is the best.
	We kill more than others.
	We get killed less than others.
	We love all the blood.
	Yay!
	We're vampires.
	I'm so bored.
	And this goes on and on until the next soundscape you get, which is a whole lot shorter, is something like this.
	Culture!
	Ah!
	Kill it!
	Kill it where it lives!
	Call it an airstrike!
	Nuke it from orbit!
	Die!
	Culture!
	Let a meteor come and end the irrationality of the planet.
	I want to die with a big cosmic face plant of hell to the head because we barely deserve to live.
	We're so irrational!
	So something like that, I think, would be a rational soundscape response to what is modern...
	I didn't even bring in, you know, being hit much as a child.
	I didn't even really bring in religion or anything like that.
	But something like that, to me, would be...
	Somewhat appropriate.
	I could have done that for about an hour and a half, but out of respect for the listeners.
	So, I think that's a more rational response to culture, but go ahead.
	The day you just described it, you just described me, basically.
	My whole, almost my whole life, it was like that in public schools.
	So tired.
	You're exhausted but overstimulated, which is kind of like the worst thing.
	It's like taking someone who's been up for three days, injecting cocaine directly into their dick, and then saying, go do a jig on a hot plate, right?
	So it's horrendous, right?
	So when I talked about chronic pain, what I'm saying is that for a rational individual, And that doesn't mean someone who's always rational, but somebody who kind of goes for rationality and somebody who, like myself, you know, wanders, tiptoes through the daisies into the whirling death blades of cultural resistance, like, oh, I've got a little toy called Reason.
	I'm going to bring it to my fellow man.
	I think they're accidentally shooting at me.
	I can't imagine why.
	Look, my friends, I have a present for you.
	You're going to love this.
	It's a reason.
	It's going to make you happy.
	Totally.
	And so to be rational and to be in your culture is painful.
	It's painful as fuck, right?
	Culture is like this sequential, strapped-down mind-rape on the conveyor belt that just keeps looping round and round and round and round and round.
	So, emotions, like the physical sensations, we can sort of manage and so on, live healthy and that kind of stuff.
	But...
	We do have a huge problem if we can think and we actually dare to bring rationality to our fellow hominids.
	I mean, oh my God.
	If we think we're bringing them a gift, like we're bringing the leprosy cure to a cancer ward, they lock the door from the outside and it turns out we're in a zombie cave from hell and we're just trying to keep the shreds of our brain from being torn apart by our fellow hominids.
	So I can certainly understand why emotions would be a challenge if you don't hugely limit your exposure to the environmental toxin called human irrationality.
	I just wanted to make this one observation.
	You basically are working under the premise that almost...
	I think it's a good premise.
	I think you're working on the premise that all human emotions...
	Kind of derived from social interaction.
	Is that really true?
	No, no, no.
	No, no.
	I mean, I'm just saying that if you have a commitment to rationality and as a tribal being, which we all are as a tribal animal, some desire to interact with others, then it's going to be painful as hell.
	Yeah.
	I'm not saying all emotions arise out of interactions with others.
	I mean, when I was writing, in particular when I was writing novels, I would have the most incredibly glorious highs of creativity while sitting completely alone.
	Listening to music with headphones on in a darkroom.
	I sort of feel like I'm jumping from lit, ghostly piano key to lit, ghostly piano key, like going through the mind of the musician.
	I guess you could say that's contact with the mind of the musician, or the skill of the musician, but I think there's a lot that occurs for us emotionally that is not to do with direct contact with others.
	What I'm just saying is that if you develop contact with your true self, with your authentic self, Then what happens is it's very painful to be around other people when you are truly honest.
	Because when you're around other people, you have a choice in general, which is you can turn yourself inside out and become a hollow-headed zombie echoing the general platitudes of idiots.
	Or you can tell the truth and be attacked.
	Neither of those are particularly appealing to me.
	One of the greatest things that the internet has done is it's allowed truth-tellers to find each other.
	To find each other across the vast wasteland of human idiocy called the planet crawling with zombified fools.
	We can actually find each other and have a conversation.
	And that's really rare.
	And that connection, to have truth-tellers able to find each other, that is the great power of the Internet, to connect the connected across the vast...
	It's like the internet has, you know, they have these constellation maps, right?
	You look at the sky.
	There's iPad devices for this too, right?
	And they draw the lines between the stars and they turn these disconnected points of light into pictures that tell a story and are connected to each other.
	And the connection only occurs in the mind, but that's how the constellations generally were processed throughout most of human history.
	Well, the internet creates a constellation and a connection and a tail between The human points of light that are as rare as the stars in the night sky.
	Almost all humanity is the space between the stars, and a few people who've worked really hard and sacrificed a lot and taken a lot of bullets actually become the stars, and that's actually how humanity guides itself.
	But the Internet has allowed you and I to have this conversation.
	This is the line between two stars, and this is lighting up a lot more light.
	Than used to be lit up.
	But I'm just saying that to be in true contact with your emotions and to remain in contact with society is basically to have a cockroach come into your eardrum and gently wave its antennae over the tiny ears that make sound.
	Or to have a eee!
	You know, one of these really whiny, annoying sounds in your head following...
	I mean, at some point, you just want to gouge out your own ears rather than continue to hear that sound.
	And so I can understand that as you try to get in touch with your emotions, what happens is you generally have this spinal column hot plate jerk your soul back from contact with society because it's so...
	Overheated and toxic and hyper-sexualized and dissociated and violent fetishizing, violence fetishizing and so on.
	Does that make any sense?
	Oh yeah, it does.
	I don't really grasp the connection between my original question and this topic.
	But your question is, why would you want to be in touch with your emotions, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, I mean, I'm saying that if society is as toxic as I've experienced it, and as the thousands of people I've conversed with over the course of my life about these topics in great depth have experienced it, society is violently toxic.
	And when you get in touch with your feelings, you, I think, to stay sane, you must extremely limit your contact with the muggles, with the general society, right?
	And so, your body wants to protect you from harm.
	If you're empty-headed, then you can float around like a bunch of helium balloons in a cyclone with everyone else, right?
	You can circle state power.
	You can cheer at football games.
	You can say, support the troops!
	And think that you're saying something.
	You can put Jesus fish on your bumper.
	A sticker.
	You can do whatever you want because you have no existence.
	You are a ghost in a world of ghosts and so you all pretend to hug and touch each other and nobody feels insubstantial because there's no body, literally no body present.
	But when you incorporate, so to speak, when you become corporeal, when you materialize, when you become real, the ghosts attack you because they don't feel like they're dead until they see somebody with a pulse.
	And particularly when you have worked the bellows of your own true self fire, flame to life, and Frankensteins yourself with your own Dr.
	Frankenstein slab and electricity, once you have come to life, you draw the attacks of others.
	Of course, right?
	Because nobody thinks they're in a graveyard until they see a gravekeeper, right?
	They all think that they're I mean, society is everyone talking and drinking and so on, and they're having their hors d'oeuvres, and they think that they're in wonderful Armani suits and lovely dresses and Dolce& Gabbana shoes and Wang wedding dresses, or whatever, Vera Wang wedding dresses.
	And it's kind of dim and shady, but everyone's having a fun time at the nightclub or whatever.
	And then somebody with a true self, somebody who's authentic, somebody who's honest, somebody who's curious, somebody who's connected comes along.
	The lights go way up and it hurts their eyes.
	And when their eyes adjust, they realize that they're all standing in graves.
	They're isolated.
	There's only mirrors around them.
	And the mirrors show them the ghastly hell of their own non-existence, right?
	You can see their teeth through their cheeks.
	One eyeball is hanging down.
	Bits of hair sticking up.
	One shoulder blade is poking through.
	And they only have one leg.
	And they hate whoever turned on the light.
	Because they thought they were at a party.
	And it turns out that they were at a wake.
	But they were in the coffin.
	And everyone else is in the coffin as well.
	So they rail against.
	Right.
	Everybody thinks they can think until they come across someone who can think.
	Everybody thinks that they're good until they come across someone who actually defines goodness in a way that redefines them as immoral.
	Right.
	I mean, everyone thinks that they're good.
	Like, you know, well, I'll lend my neighbors a cup of sugar and I donate to the animal shelter and this and that and the other.
	And then someone comes along and says, you know, the taxation is theft and spanking is child abuse.
	Right.
	And people are like, whoa, whoa.
	Don't tell me that shit!
	I could do something about that that's not self-congratulatory!
	That's hard work!
	That's ethics you have to fucking work for!
	That ethics brings me into conflict with other human beings, particularly evil people, and they can be scary!
	I mean, whoever is going to get mad at you for donating to the animal shelter?
	Don't get me wrong, I donate to the animal shelter too, but that doesn't make me a good person.
	It just means I like furry things.
	So, people don't like it when you take moral self-congratulation out of their automatic vocabulary and you say, hey, you know what?
	Ethics is a marathon and you can't even climb a flight of stairs.
	Yeah, it's very painful.
	So when you get in touch with your feelings, you have to start to limit your contact with society.
	Otherwise, you spend your whole day throwing up in your mouth just a little bit every time someone talks.
	Yeah, I totally agree with what you said.
	You think it's porn.
	Last analogy, right?
	You think you're whacking off to porn and it turns out that you're on like the surgery channel.
	You know, after you come, you're like, oh my god, they just gave that kid a circumcision and then they pulled out that woman's tumor and then someone passed a gallbladder into a cup.
	Or, you know, you think you're watching porn and then you have an orgasm and you realize you're just watching a female praying mantis chew the head off her lover and you're like, really?
	This is what turns me on?
	This is what I need to get my juice cracked?
	Oh my god, what the hell is wrong with me?
	I'm into, like, beheading insect animal porn?
	Oh my god, I'm horrified!
	Yeah, so it just takes the cultural blindfolds off and you see reality for what it is.
	That's the old Plato's or Socratic metaphor of the cave.
	So your feelings then recoil against society and then society attacks you for wanting to be isolated from society, right?
	So anyway, I just wanted to point out...
	Let's talk a little bit more about your feelings in particular, if you don't mind.
	Yeah, sure.
	I just wanted to say that All of this was to say, not all of this, I appreciate it, but all of this was just to say that my emotions matter when I'm in my social interactions,
	when I feel anxious or whatever negative feeling I'm having at the moment, I should face it as something useful rather than an inconvenience.
	Well, no, see, but it's complicated, right?
	Because we have two sets of emotions.
	I think this is really important to understand, but I will keep it brief because I know I've been doing a lot of talking.
	But we have two sets of emotions.
	One set of emotions is some bastard needs to watch over me while I sleep, and so I have to conform to whatever that bastard wants.
	If I got to do this particular dance, I got to elongate my neck, I got to wear giant hoop earrings, I got to have lobsters hanging off my fucking nipples.
	Okay, I'll do that stupid shit.
	I'll get tattoos, I'll, you know, put bones through my nose cavity, whatever, right?
	Fine.
	You know, whatever I got to do to have somebody watch over me while I sleep so I don't get eaten.
	Right?
	Right, unavoidable.
	And so, yeah, so it's like, okay, sing this, do this, cheer for this, go fight, okay, fine, just watch over me while I sleep, right?
	Oh, survival, yeah.
	Yeah, so those are our survival emotions, right?
	And society, or the tribe, Works the way that all biology works.
	Fundamentally, it's a multi-person biological organism.
	And what that means is it needs to reproduce really, really accurately, which is why culture gets so fucking horribly inflicted on children.
	I mean, culture just gets branded into children at like 9,000 degrees centigrade.
	I mean, children are just...
	Punched and beaten and kicked and neglected and abused until they just fucking conform.
	There's a reason why everyone is in the stands at a football game.
	There's a reason why everyone's in the pews at church.
	There's a reason why the kids sit so relatively quietly in school.
	There's a reason why they salute the flag.
	There's a reason why they get emotional at a child hugging the returning soldier.
	Because they have been disassembled as true individuals and reassembled In the shadows of power, to match the shadows of power, so that they don't see the light of freedom on the other side of the grim falcon-based statues of power.
	So the tribe must reproduce the same way that you and I should reproduce, right?
	We don't want to give birth to a kid with nine heads and squid tentacles and all that kind of stuff, right?
	So the tribe as an organism needs to replicate itself, right?
	But the tribe, like an organism, needs some random mutation.
	Because the tribes that replicate themselves too efficiently, never without any random mutation, don't progress any more than single-celled organisms without any mutations or any organisms or groups of DNA without any mutations, without any random mutations, never progress.
	There's no evolution without selective adaptation, right?
	Which means that the shit that randomly happens that works better tends to get reinforced, and the shit that happens, we know all that, right?
	Yeah, I'm quite familiar with that.
	Yeah, so you know all this, and the reason I'm using all the biological stuff is I know it works for you, and I think it's true.
	So the cultures that don't reproduce efficiently don't have the cohesion that allows for irrational own-group preference, right?
	I.e., my tribe is, you have to pound that my tribe is best shit into kids so that they'll go and fight as adults to protect, as men, they'll be disposable men to protect the wombs of the women, right?
	Now, at the same time, though, societies which don't have assholes like you and me who come along and shake things up, those societies stagnate and fail.
	I feel the Chinese society was like the same for thousands and thousands of years, fundamentally, right?
	And it failed, fundamentally.
	So, we have two sets of emotions.
	In the same way that DNA both wants to accurately reproduce and also screw around with things a little bit, we have emotions to conform and emotions to resist.
	A rational man, in a sense, or a sensible man, conforms himself to his society.
	And a, quote, unsensible man expects his society to conform to him.
	All progress, therefore, is the result of...
	The unsensible man, right?
	So society needs to reproduce itself, which is why culture is so brutal on children, why everyone ends up cheering the same gods, the same flags, the same soldiers, the same governments, the same bullshit, the same parental mental structures.
	But society also needs to screw around with itself in order to progress.
	And so people who come along, like us, We have a set of feelings which is natural, which is to conform to society.
	We also have another set of feelings driven by a desire for intellectual integrity that is how society advances.
	Now, all genetic mutations are fiercely resisted by all existing adaptations because the existing adaptations don't want to lose to the new adaptation, right?
	And so the giraffe's neck that's a little bit longer is at war with the giraffe's neck that's a little bit shorter because the gene for the giraffe's neck that's a little bit shorter doesn't want to lose out.
	So there's massive resistance to new structures, to new advancements, to new...
	or deviations, because a lot of deviations, right, don't work, right?
	They don't help the organism.
	A lot of the mutations are extremely unhelpful, right?
	So...
	What that means is that it is natural for some of us to be born saying fuck you to society, and it's natural for society to say fuck you back.
	And most people who say fuck you to society end up being negative or inconsequential to society, just as most genetic mutations end up being negative or inconsequential to the organism.
	But a few Mutations within society, a few people who surf the resistance emotions rather than the conformity emotions, a few of those drag society forward, drag society upwards, make society better.
	And those who do it at a moral level are even rarer than those who do it at an economic or a legal or an artistic or a cultural level.
	And this is why I view my job as absolutely essential and why I work so hard at my job is because the number of people who have the desire and the capacity to do what I'm doing is very rare.
	And therefore I view it as a very important responsibility to do what I'm doing.
	I understand society is going to fight me like hell in a handbasket.
	Of course, that's kind of their job, right?
	Because they're afraid of change and they only believe.
	That they're good.
	They don't want to actually know what goodness is.
	So, does that sort of make any sense as to why getting in touch with your emotions is problematic sometimes?
	Oh yeah, definitely.
	Can I really...
	Can I throw one of my examples, personally?
	Please.
	Thanks.
	It kind of comes down to the sexual level.
	Before, I kind of believed that we can go and just fuck around with women because all other animals do, right?
	Part of their survival, etc.
	And then you come along and You say stuff differently and I kind of think, hmm, UPB, interesting.
	And I kind of dwelled into that and it made me kind of conflicting with my own...
	I think it wasn't my emotions against your theories and stuff.
	I think with my imprinted culture, That was trying to disprove that.
	Does this make any sense?
	No.
	Yeah.
	No, let's start at the beginning.
	So you said you want to fuck around with women.
	I'm not sure what that means because that could be mentally or physically or whatever.
	What does that mean?
	Oh, sorry.
	No, really on the physical level and not like damaging or anything, but Just having casual sex with women.
	Sorry, I'm kind of nervous.
	No, it's fine.
	So you want to or you have had casual sex with women?
	No, once, once.
	You want to?
	Okay, and what's the problem with that?
	Yeah, and it's kind of...
	Maybe just to think a little bit.
	Oh, come on.
	If you're going to talk about your emotions, don't give me these long pauses to think, because then I know you're not giving me your emotions.
	You're giving me your defenses and justifications.
	So you want to have casual sex with women.
	And what's the problem with that?
	It's kind of like...
	I'm really nervous to just do that.
	Don't worry.
	You're completely anonymous.
	All we know is you live in Portugal.
	I believe there's a few other penises who live in Portugal.
	I've seen them scrunching around like giant slugs in search of the giant caves of females.
	So don't worry about it.
	You're completely anonymous.
	Nobody's going to know who the hell you are.
	So this is a great chance for you to speak your mind.
	I assume it's rare for most people in the world to get to really speak their mind about something.
	So what's wrong with having casual sex with women?
	I have this really...
	Terrible problem.
	Whenever people say, oh, that's wrong, I tend to react really, really badly.
	And I think, oh, it really makes me anxious because, oh, I want to do that.
	Okay, stop.
	I don't know.
	What are you talking about?
	You're like four jigsaw puzzle pieces and you're saying, put together this masterpiece.
	So, what are you talking about?
	Do you mean when you say to people that you want to have cast or sex with women, they say, oh, that's wrong?
	Yeah.
	Well, who says that?
	I hope not other young men, or you are with a pretty square monastic fraternity there, right?
	No, particularly adults, really.
	Okay, good.
	So you're not discussing your sexual desires with children.
	I think that's a great idea.
	But adults is way too vague.
	Who specifically are you talking to?
	Come on, man.
	Don't make me pull these teeth.
	Just give me a conversation.
	I'm trying.
	Sorry.
	No, you're not.
	You're trying not to.
	Because there's stuff that's on your mind and on the tip of your tongue and you're trying to massage it through some sort of spin machine, right?
	Who?
	Is it your parents?
	Is it your brothers?
	Is it your sisters?
	Is it your casual friends?
	Is it people in bars?
	I mean, who is telling you that your desires are wrong?
	Particularly my mom.
	Are you really talking with your mom about wanting to have casual sex with women?
	I mean, no.
	Let me just make it clear.
	I'm not saying that's wrong.
	I'm just giving you a visceral reaction, which is...
	No, I understand.
	I understand.
	But there was just one talk that I had, and I... It was...
	Sorry, I'm so sorry.
	Okay, so does your mom think that it's wrong for you to want to have casual sex with women?
	Yeah.
	And why does she think that it's wrong?
	I mean, I didn't ask her.
	Well, can I tell you why you want to have casual sex with women?
	Yes, please.
	It's basically because you have a cock.
	No, I'm serious.
	I mean, it's like saying I bought a keyboard to only write one story or to write one text message.
	No, your keyboard is designed for a wide variety of messages.
	And in fact, you'd only really buy a keyboard that you could use for a near infinite number of messages.
	And your cock is your keyboard, and it wants to type on the face of just about every woman of fertile age in the world that you meet or that you don't meet or that you see or that you think about or that you can assemble as a fleshy Japanese sex robot amalgam of every naughty bit that you like.
	Does this make sense?
	Oh, yeah, it does.
	Okay.
	So, first of all, the important thing is to remember that you have a cock and your mother doesn't.
	I'm going to assume that your mother is not some Thai ladyboy, right?
	So, your mother does not have a cock, right?
	I'm not asking you to verify that.
	I'm not asking you to look for suspicious bulges in the family portraits.
	I'm just going to assume that your mom doesn't have a cock, right?
	Yes.
	Fair enough.
	Okay.
	So, given that your mother doesn't have a cock, what the fuck is she supposed to know about male sexuality?
	Do you tell her what her period is like?
	No, I don't have a period.
	Yeah, so you don't have a period.
	Do you explain to her in great detail what childbirth is like?
	Of course not.
	Right.
	Do you also give her diagrams with some sort of child's toy and some sort of plasticine model and some sort of gripping machine, some sort of suction device?
	Do you explain to her exactly what a female orgasm feels like?
	Of course not.
	That would be really weird.
	That would be really weird.
	So why is she telling you what it's like to have a cock?
	I have no idea.
	Oh, I know.
	I can tell you that, but we'll get into that in a second, right?
	Okay, so...
	So, I mean, why women would have anything to say about male sexuality other than I'm interested and tell me more, why women would have anything to say about male sexuality is completely bewildering at a rational level, right?
	Right.
	Yeah, right.
	I mean, without tinkling all the way down their knee pads, they don't even know what it's like to pee standing up.
	So what the fuck are they going to say about having a cock?
	Nothing, right?
	Yeah, right.
	Right.
	So, you know the basics, obviously, of biology, which is that a man's contribution to a child is very small and easily repeatable, right?
	Whereas the woman's investment in a child is significant and major, right?
	Men can have thousands of children over the course of their lifetime.
	Women can have, I don't know, maybe a dozen or whatever, right?
	So a man wants to have lots of casual sex with women because that's the best way to spread his genetic material.
	And men who didn't have that desire weren't around to buy flowers for women, right?
	Yes.
	Women want a man who's going to commit for the long term because they need resources when they're pregnant and breastfeeding, right?
	Yes, yeah.
	So men want casual sex and women want commitment.
	Makes sense.
	And this is why men are disposable and it's women and children into the lifeboat first.
	And this is why the whole bullshit about patriarchy is ridiculous.
	Of course, men need to control women's sexuality throughout history because women have a rather unsettling habit of banging other men and then having the beta male raise the idiot alpha's child.
	Right.
	Anyway, we don't have to get into that right now.
	Right.
	But.
	I understand.
	I mean, if women's vows could be believed, you'd never need chastity belts, but you did, right?
	Because in history, any time a child was born into a marriage, again, before DNA tests and all that, it was like, okay, that's the husband's child.
	It doesn't matter if he looks completely different.
	It doesn't matter if, you know, Joe Viking has a kid with a deep tan and an afro.
	It doesn't really matter.
	It's just that's you, right?
	So men had to have a lot of control over female sexuality because men were selling their excess labor and women were selling their excess fertility and blah, blah, blah, right?
	So...
	So, the fact that your mom would say it's wrong to want to have casual sex with women means that she thinks she's a really shitty wife.
	Maybe I should have told some background story.
	She's not even married.
	Well, I guess that's a really shitty wife then, isn't it, right?
	No, because a woman wants commitment, right?
	And a woman wants commitment from the man, right?
	You keep that dick pointed here.
	I want to keep that dick on a leash, I want to tie it to my clit, and everywhere I walk, I want that dick to follow me.
	Right?
	Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
	And again, there's nothing wrong with that, but the question is, how do you put the dick on a leash?
	I mean, do you ride by on horseback with a lariat and a really, really good aim?
	No.
	How do you keep that dick on a leash?
	How do you keep it pointed at one woman, right?
	Being a dick magnet and a single dick magnet is the great challenge of femininity.
	Men have their own challenges, which is like not get a fucking spear through the eyeball, but women have the challenge, which is dick wants to go everywhere, dick has to keep pointed at me, right?
	Yeah, right.
	So how does a woman keep the dick pointed at her?
	Well, she stays attractive, she exercises, she doesn't gain weight, or if the guy's a chubby chaser, she gains a lot of weight.
	She actually satisfies the man sexually, emotionally, intellectually.
	She becomes a great friend, a great partner, and she does the amazing miracle that North American women and European women seem to have almost universally and completely forgotten they are helpful.
	They are actually helpful.
	They bring more than pussy to the man's life.
	They bring some utility of some value and some help and some, oh my God, she actually did something to help me.
	You know, when I was, I dated like so many women, it's ridiculous, right?
	And when I met my wife-to-be, I had taken some sandals in to get them repaired because I'm a cheap motherfucker, basically.
	And they were downtown, and I said to my wife, you know, a couple of weeks after meeting her, I said, oh, I gotta go down and pick up my sandals from the shoe store downtown.
	And she's like, oh, aren't you writing your book at the moment?
	Because I was working on a book.
	And she said, I said, yeah, I am.
	And she said, oh, go write.
	I'll pick up your sandals.
	And I was like...
	I'm sorry.
	What?
	Am I being punched?
	Is Aston Kutcher going to pop out of my front pocket?
	I mean, what the fuck is going on?
	What do you mean you'll go and pick up my sandals for me?
	It's like, she's like, no, I'm happy to go.
	I'm going downtown anyway.
	It's on my way.
	I can pick him up and bring him back.
	And I was like, what?
	A, what century are you from?
	B, haven't you ever heard about feminism?
	And C, don't ever serve the patriarchy because apparently we own you and everything that you do in this life is based upon your resentment of men.
	Right?
	And I, like, I literally, I was like, I couldn't, I couldn't process it.
	Literally, it was like she had just levitated.
	Like, my whole brain was, like, warped by a new potential reality called a woman is going to do something helpful for me.
	And she did.
	She got me.
	And it was like, wow, you know what?
	Let's get married because I just want to have somebody who's useful.
	And I've been very useful to women.
	Like a woman I was living with who wanted a film career.
	I wrote a screenplay and funded a film that you can find it on the YouTube channel, youtube.com slash free domain radio.
	It's called...
	After.
	It's a good film, I think.
	And I had reviewed women's work, and I had done so many helpful and useful things for women, helped them with writing, ran lines for them if they were actors and so on, and all that.
	And, you know, remembered little things that they wanted months later and stuff like that.
	And so, a woman who says, I really want to keep that dick pointed this way, Has to be friendly, sexy, helpful, and useful.
	And it's true for the man, too.
	I don't date men, so this is why I talk about women.
	And I was just...
	Like, Daniel Crittenden wrote a great book that I actually went through with my wife before we got married to make sure, literally, we were on the same page, which is basically, she said that...
	I think it's called What Your Mothers Didn't Tell You or something like that.
	And she was at a tennis club, she said, and some...
	The couple she was going to play tennis with, her and her husband, they'd left their tennis rackets back at the clubhouse.
	And the woman was heading back and the man said, oh, listen, can you grab mine too?
	And she's like, go get it yourself.
	And she said, at that moment, I get, like, women have just become kind of douchey, right?
	Not in a good way.
	Not in a fragrant way.
	But they've become sort of balky and annoying.
	Like, all of the...
	All of the men that they criticize as being unhelpful around the house.
	And again, when I was living with a woman, I was working, she was looking for work, and she literally said to me, you have to do half the housework.
	And I said, well, what do you mean I have to do half the housework?
	I'm working 12 hours a day, paying the rent, paying the bills.
	What the hell does that mean?
	I have to do half the housework.
	And she's like, well, that's equal.
	And I said, well, it ain't equal.
	We're not paying equally.
	We're not working equally.
	Well, I'm looking for work, and that's great.
	And when you get the work and when you contribute equally, I will do half the housework.
	But if you're home looking for work, which is kind of a cool thing to do, and I'm out there busting my hump for 12 hours a day, I'd like a sandwich when I get home, you know?
	It's not the end of the world, right?
	Yeah.
	And just this borky, resentful, don't-want-to-do-anything-helpful stuff that goes on with women means that dicks are going to start pointing other directions, right?
	Dicks don't do resentment, right?
	Dicks do open-hearted, sexy friendliness, right?
	That's magnets for sperm and all that.
	And this sort of, like, get-your-own-goddamn-tennis-racket and all that kind of stuff is, you know, why the hell would I go and pick up your sandals?
	What am I, your slave?
	It's like, yeah, but when it comes to a man's income, somehow slavery doesn't really count, right?
	But...
	So, your mom, in saying it's wrong and it's bad for wanting to have sex with other women, well, what she's basically saying is that I can't keep a man's attraction by being...
	A great wife.
	So what I have to do is shame and scold a man for his completely natural physical desires so that he feels bad about being attracted to another person and therefore he's going to stay with me.
	Sort of like if I'm a shitty restaurateur, I'm going to spread stories that my competing restaurant, the restaurant across the street, Has cockroaches and mice.
	And that way people will be like, they'll feel bad about going to that other restaurant.
	They'll come to my restaurant and I don't actually have to be a better restaurateur.
	I don't have to make better food because I can just slander my competition.
	And slandering men's naturally polygamous nature is how shitty women make up for not being attractive partners.
	Anyway, sorry to call your mom a shitty woman.
	That's just my theory, but you can tell me what you think.
	No, I think I kind of agree, because she's abusive, I would say.
	Right.
	And so abusive people, like, you don't want to spend time with them, right?
	Yeah, totally.
	Like, I mean, every time, you know, this is like, sorry to talk about this stuff with your mom, this is like a girlfriend who's like, every time you pull out your penis, I'm going to give it a karate chop.
	It's like, well, why the hell would I be here?
	Because other women will just cut it off, right?
	At least I'm only giving it a karate chop, which over time you may Stockholm Syndrome bond with and learn to like.
	So if you provide shitty service and you don't want to get better at the service that you provide, then what you do is you put down your competition and you spread scare stories.
	Right?
	The more government provides shitty service, the more they have to say, well, global warming, and therefore government, right?
	Terrorism, therefore government, and, you know, like all this, asteroids, therefore government, and they just have to make up scare stories because the service they're providing is shit.
	So was your mom ever married to your dad?
	No.
	Want me to just...
	Go over all my town.
	I'm just going to go...
	I'm just going to begin with my father, which is even now currently married to my mom's sister, which is...
	Oh, followed by a...
	So your biological dad is married to your mom's sister?
	here.
	Yeah.
	Oh, man.
	I'm basically a bastard child.
	Well, it's not that you're a bastard, it's your mom's a bitch.
	I mean, I hate the technical phrase, so you didn't have any say in it, right?
	No, no, I'm not.
	It's not bastard.
	No, I know, I know.
	It's bastard like the Elizabethan bastard, right?
	Okay.
	Mm-hmm.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I'm just living in a dysfunctional house, fundamentally.
	So what's the story of your beginnings?
	Like, I mean, were you an affair?
	I mean, what happened?
	Oh yeah, I'm an affair.
	Yeah, I was basically...
	The fruition of an affair.
	My father, I think, he kind of uses the excuse of, I don't have sex in my current marriage, so I'm going to look elsewhere.
	Oh, you happen to have a nice sister?
	It's really awful.
	Wait, so hang on.
	What marriage are you talking about?
	No, I'm talking about my father's marriage.
	But which marriage?
	I thought you said he wasn't married to your mom.
	Yeah, he wasn't.
	So which marriage are we talking about?
	Sorry, he's married to your mom's sister.
	He had an affair with your mom.
	Yes.
	He must, like, sleep in, like, dick chain mail so that it doesn't get cut off in the middle of the night, because that's some serious fucking provocation for some unstable women.
	But anyway, okay.
	And so your aunt didn't have sex with your dad, and so he had sex with your mom, and that's where you came from, right?
	Yeah, exactly.
	And I have a brother.
	That's what kind of makes me angry.
	So your biological dad, who's married to your mom's sister, had sex with your mom twice, or at least on two fertility-based occasions?
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	And my mom kind of didn't, she didn't, oh, I'm going to work because I'm going to be a single mom and that might be harmful for my children or whatever, and she didn't make that option.
	Yeah.
	And where does your mom get her money?
	She's basically, she works, right?
	And I have my grandmother at home, which takes care of us, and she's on retirement money, my grandmother.
	And yeah, we kind of live by those two money supplies.
	Oh, so she doesn't get money from your dad?
	No, sometimes, sometimes.
	So yes?
	So yes, yeah, yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So is your biological dad very good looking?
	Hmm.
	Or was he?
	He was.
	He was, right?
	He was.
	Yeah.
	Alpha player, right?
	Yep.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And what's his financial situation like?
	Is he rich?
	No, he's not very rich.
	He had a kind of like a relatively nice position in a supermarket.
	He's kind of like the chief of a shop.
	Like a manager, store manager?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Okay.
	So I'm guessing women get attracted to those type of power positions.
	Well, I don't know that manager of a supermarket is a power position, but okay, depends on where you're coming from.
	Okay, so your mom thinks that casual sex is bad, and you are the product of casual sex, right?
	Yeah.
	Your mom thinks that casual sex is bad, and she has two children as a result of casual sex.
	I mean, is she completely mental?
	I mean, that's literally like me saying that blacks are horrible, inferior people while, and I'm saying this to my half-black child, right?
	Yeah.
	Thank you.
	Does she know that what she says is completely insane?
	I don't think she...
	She kind of goes by the excuse of, well, if I really tried to tell her that, oh, you know, why do you criticize me when you're in that position?
	She would kind of respond and...
	Oh, but that's me.
	I'm your mother.
	You can't talk to me like that.
	What?
	Oh, so she can set up a universal rule like casual sex is bad and then exempt herself because she has the magic word mother.
	Exactly.
	Well, maybe you can ask her this and say, Mom, jump off a building, say the word mother and fly.
	Because although there's universal rules called physics, I'm sure the word mother is going to make you float.
	No, you know, fantastic.
	I would love for her to use the word mother to escape various universal rules.
	Mom, if you say the word mother over and over and over again, can your tits tie themselves in knots and still produce milk?
	Can you produce offspring with an egg?
	Can you be cold-blooded?
	Can you breathe underwater?
	No.
	The word mother, it's a description of a biological relationship.
	It changes nothing to do with ethics or virtue or anything like that.
	I mean, that's just...
	Wow, what a great get-out-of-jail-free card that is.
	I'm a mother.
	I can do anything.
	It's the ultimate superhero.
	She can fly.
	She can turn back time.
	She can give birth to seal pops.
	It's a mother.
	She's exempt from the laws of physics, time, nature, reality, philosophy, ethics, virtue, consistency, logic, evidence.
	She's mother, the ultimate superhero.
	Wow, that's amazing.
	Oh, my God.
	Oh, well, you know, they only do what they can get away with, right?
	Yeah, and I just feel monstrous amounts of anxiety when I try to talk with her about this kind of stuff.
	Why do you think that is?
	I think it's because she...
	She just scorns me whenever I try to be reasonable with her.
	No, sorry.
	She always scorns me in my childhood and abused me.
	And that resulted in me getting anxious when I tried to reason with her.
	Well, let me put forward another possibility.
	And in all seriousness, I'm incredibly sorry for the abuse that you suffered at the hands of your mother.
	I really am.
	And your father.
	But I just want to be really clear.
	I'm incredibly sorry about that.
	But let me put forward a hypothesis as to why you feel anxiety when you try to reason with your mother.
	Could it be at any level of possibility, and I'm not trying to tell you how you feel, but could it be at any level of possibility that you feel great anxiety when trying to reason with your mother, when trying to appear real to your mother, when trying to be honest with your mother, because you hate her fucking guts.
	It might be that.
	I mean, I... Yeah, it certainly is a possibility because I really remember in my childhood, really, whenever she kind of, when I asked her why she, she kind of, sorry, confusing me.
	She would send me to do some stuff.
	She would send me to do something, and I would ask, well, why?
	And she said, well, because I said so.
	Now go get that shit now.
	And I really just feel a real hate towards her.
	I would go there.
	Saying, God, fuck her.
	And I think that's a really, really interesting thought.
	Well, tell me what...
	I mean, she sounds like an absolutely hateful human being to me.
	I mean, I hate her already, and I've just known her abstractly for an hour.
	But tell me something that's not hateful about her.
	That's not contemptible and manipulative and hypocritical and abusive.
	You know, I'm happy to hear the case.
	What is not horrible about your mom?
	Well, she always kind of gave us a lot of physical support, like kerosene, kissing, and all that.
	I love you very much.
	I don't really...
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	I'm sorry.
	I don't want the laundry list because I get confused.
	My brain is almost 48 years old.
	So she told you that she loved you.
	and how did you feel when she told you that?
	I don't really...
	I don't really remember the emotion, really.
	Yes, you do.
	You just told me.
	Maybe...
	I mean, if you can remember back 30 seconds, you just told me.
	When your mom said, "I love you," what did you feel?
	I didn't say that.
	You just said the word hate and then you said I didn't say that.
	I'm not sure what you mean.
	No, I mean, it was only when she...
	I'm quite confused now.
	I mean...
	I only felt hate when she kind of abused me, basically.
	The power abuse.
	I'm sorry, how...
	I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	No, no, don't apologize to me.
	I understand where you are.
	How is saying that you...
	How is saying I love you to someone you're abusing and who's terrified of you not also abuse?
	Like if I punch someone and then hug them and say I love them, you get that I'm continuing my abuse by saying that I love them, right?
	By confusing them, by fogging them, by making them bewildered, by fragmenting their reality and sense of continuity, right?
	Yeah.
	But when she would hug me and stuff like that, I kind of...
	Forgot about the abuse.
	Or maybe not.
	I don't know.
	Of course!
	Of course you did!
	That's the point!
	You cannot abuse someone and love them.
	It's literally like telling me I'm ambivalent about my mom because she cooked really nice food and put arsenic in it.
	So I don't know.
	Some of it tasted good and some of it made my teeth fall out.
	So, right, you understand that the good-tasting food is so you'll eat more of the arsenic, right?
	Right, right.
	Oh, yeah.
	So the I love you is to cover up the abuse and to keep you bewildered and, right?
	So, does she have the capacity for love?
	Does she have the virtue that's necessary for love?
	Does she know and understand you enough?
	To say that she loves you and views you as a separate, sovereign individual.
	Does she allow you and even encourage you to disagree with her?
	Does she explore those disagreements?
	Does she want to get to know your hobbies?
	Does she know your favorite color, favorite books, favorite authors, favorite thoughts, favorite music?
	Does she really know you as an individual separate from herself?
	All that is a bare minimum requirement for using the four-letter word called love.
	But to say the words is, when unsupported by the actions, abusive.
	To say I love you to someone that you're only using for your own emotional gratification is part of the abuse.
	I love you.
	Love is three words.
	I, which means you have a sovereign and independent self, not manipulative, not controlling, not bullshit, not cultural, not whatever, right?
	That's the I. The love is value for objectively good reasons.
	Value because...
	I know what virtue is.
	I have encouraged virtue within you and you are surprising me with the amount of virtue that you are creating on your own for the parent-child relationship, right?
	And the you, the you part is I love you, which means I know you as separate from myself.
	I respect and encourage your individuality and I'm curious about who you are because I really enjoy the continual process of getting to know you on an ongoing basis, right?
	So if someone doesn't have an I, doesn't know what love is, and doesn't know who you are, I love you is exactly the same as somebody who has no idea how to cure cancer, giving you some sugar pills and say, I cured you.
	Now give me $10,000.
	The I cured you is just the culmination of the con.
	And the I love you from a lot of these dysfunctional people is the culmination of the con of exploitation.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	What the fuck did she know about love?
	She banged her sister's husband.
	Are you kidding me?
	What the fuck did she even know about love?
	How did she even get to use that word?
	A monkey can tap away at a computer.
	Keyboard, right?
	Doesn't mean they know what the hell they're doing.
	And people can use these words, love, respect, honor, obedience, piety, loyal.
	They can use all this shit.
	But 2,500 years ago, Socrates started asking people what the hell they meant by that, and nobody had a clue.
	The words that people use, the moral words that people use, are one thing and one thing only.
	Buttons they can push to get kibble from you.
	Buttons they can push to get you to do what they want you to do.
	That's bad.
	Oh shit, I better not do that.
	That's good.
	Here's a kibble.
	Oh, I should do that.
	Right?
	It's treats and a newspaper across the butt for a puppy.
	These are words that have been developed because they hook into people's conscience.
	Right?
	They hook into people's conscience.
	They are remote control, feel-good, feel-bad devices.
	And of course your parents can push your buttons.
	They goddamn well installed them.
	So you tell me how she can say the words, I love you, and have any more credibility than me saying to somebody with MS after giving them sugar pills, I cured you.
	I can say those words.
	Have I actually cured them?
	No.
	Do I even know what I'm doing?
	No.
	It's just a calm...
	I... That's kind of...
	I kind of like now link the...
	My beginning question with this, because I don't really...
	I don't really feel what I think.
	It's really stupid, I know.
	But I think about...
	No, I'm thinking now about what you just said, and I don't really...
	I don't really feel angry towards her it's kind of tough for me to accept that she's she's a vile person Thank you.
	Well, I'm happy to hear the case otherwise.
	I'm just going by what you've told me, that she was abusive, that she had sex with her sister's husband, that she's manipulative, that she lies, that she's hypocritical, and that you're terrified of being honest with her.
	That all sounds like pure womb-based poison to me, but I'm happy to hear the case.
	Why is she not vile?
	I can't think of...
	I don't think...
	I don't see that to be the case, really.
	You don't see what to be the case?
	I really think that she would have any quality in the moral realm.
	Well, that's a very neutral statement, right?
	That's like saying someone is not very tall, but they're in fact three feet tall, right?
	No, I really can't think of a good quality.
	Maybe she was...
	I think she had one good thing about her, which was she kind of liked Not depending on other people.
	And she was always very proud.
	I don't want to take help.
	She wanted independence.
	So she values independence?
	Yeah.
	So she values your independence because independence is a universal value, right?
	Yeah, independence is definitely a universal value, but I don't think she's... that she's into universality.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Well, no, look, I mean, if she takes pride in something, it must be something universal, right?
	When you can't take pride in something that's not universal.
	No, but she actively, she always takes pride on something that's not universally true.
	No, no, no.
	You're not understanding what I'm saying.
	For her to take pride in it, it must be compared to a universal value.
	Can I take pride in liking vanilla ice cream?
	No, but that's exactly what I'm saying.
	She really values a lot.
	I asked you what her virtues were.
	And you said she's very independent, right?
	Okay, great.
	So she must value independence.
	So then why are you terrified to differ from her in opinions?
	Why are you terrified to be independent of her if she values independence?
	Why does approaching her with a conflicting idea or a conflicting history or conflicting emotions or a conflicting perspective Why, if she values independence, are you so terrified to be independent around her?
	I don't know.
	I know.
	Because she doesn't value independence.
	She probably hates obligation.
	In other words, if people do stuff for me, I might have to summon it within my tiny, over-tanned, raisin of a heart to do something nice back.
	That makes so much sense.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	I think that's really the case, too.
	I think that's really the case, too, but what do I know?
	We're just talking for the first time.
	Yeah.
	And I really appreciate your thought.
	But why...
	I mean, you already said that you hate her.
	You've already said she was abusive.
	Why not...
	What's wrong with hating her?
	It doesn't mean that's the only thing you'll ever feel or whatever.
	But what's...
	Why is it not allowed to have...
	A feeling of hatred or anger.
	My daughter gets angry at me occasionally.
	It's absolutely essential information for me to have.
	Yeah, but she doesn't want that information.
	I think she feels threatened by that information.
	She doesn't want to be hated, right?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, there's actually a pretty good way to not be hated as a parent.
	Do you know what that is?
	Yeah, I think I know.
	What do you think?
	Be a good one?
	Just be a halfway fucking decent one.
	You know, you may not be overly loved, but at least you won't be loathed.
	You know, just don't be a hypocritical, abusive bitch who has sex with her sister's husband and then says to her son that he may potentially be irresponsible with his sexuality.
	Yuck!
	Oh, there it is.
	See?
	I'm contacting society again.
	I'm throwing up in my mouth a little bit.
	And you know, you have no control over that hatred anyway.
	I mean, it's an unconscious thing.
	It's an unconscious evaluation of another person's consistent actions.
	All our emotions are unconscious evaluations of another person's consistent actions.
	You can reject the knowledge that you have about your mother and who she is.
	But you cannot reject that you have that knowledge.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, it actually does.
	If you see something horrible, you can push it out of your mind and refuse to process it, but you can't unsee it.
	Do you know what I mean?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Totally.
	So, if your emotions, which I believe most people's emotions are, if your emotions are The true empiricism of history, which is your true experiences of somebody else's personality,
	if your emotions are the empiricism of history, then you can reject them, but then you reject self-protection.
	Why do you want to feel?
	So you can be protected from people like your mother in your future.
	Because if you're like, well, I can't feel any hatred, she's my mom, I'm going to go hang with her and she's fine and I'm not going to be who I am and blah-de-blah-de-blah, right?
	Then all that means is that there'll be no one else but people like your mom in your life from now until the day you fucking die.
	It will be the same person with different tits and maybe a mustache once in a while.
	It will be the same person over and over and over and over again.
	It'll be like a one-man play of infinite multiplicity all revolving around the same dysfunction.
	It will be a broken record, Groundhog's Day of shit sandwiches from here until the end of your life.
	Yeah.
	I always...
	Hang on, if you meet some woman who's a good woman, Who's the mythical unicorn-horned nawelt that I'm married to, but which I'm never letting go of.
	This is why then not all women are like that.
	This is why the exception to the estrogen-based parasites rule are generally not available to other men, because when a man finds someone like that, we hang on to them like literally grim death, right?
	If my wife ever tried to leave me, it would be very tough for her to get anywhere with me hanging on to her legs, screaming and howling like an abandoned seal pup.
	Right?
	So, let's say some woman of quality comes along and you say, hey, here's my mom!
	Would you like to hang out with her for the next 50 years?
	What's that woman going to say?
	Hell no.
	I don't care how big your dick is.
	No thank you.
	Right?
	You could be called the interstellar tripod for all I care.
	I ain't climbing on that French loaf because it came out of that hoo-hoo, that crazy bag of vagina over there, right?
	And what is your mom going to say if a functional, healthy woman comes into your life?
	Who will see her for who she is?
	What's your mom going to say?
	I really don't know.
	Yes, you do!
	Oh, come on!
	Of course you know!
	Yeah, she's gonna hate her.
	Yeah?
	I don't like that one.
	She's gonna take advantage of you.
	She's manipulative.
	She's gonna project all her crazy bat belfry stuff into her pristine cathedral-like brain, the woman's, and she's gonna work as hard as she can to get that healthy specimen out of your life, right?
	Oh, I got a good idea.
	How about this?
	How about if some crazy bitch comes along?
	What's your mom going to say?
	Oh, she's great.
	Marry that woman.
	She's wonderful.
	Because she's going to be safe around her, right?
	Where the fuck is it the moms who actually warn their sons against dangerous women?
	Because dangerous women are not the rarest species on the planet.
	Dangerous, crazy, unhelpful women, not as rare as a spotted owl in a subway, let's just say.
	Where the fuck are the moms standing up and saying, okay, here's the crazy shit that you need to look out for.
	Here's the dangerous, because I'm a woman.
	I know what women are capable of.
	I grew up with all the mean girls.
	I know intimately what all the crazy dangerous bitches are like.
	So here, I'm going to go through this shit.
	I'm going to do this with my daughter when she gets older.
	Here's all the crazy dangerous stuff.
	If it goes on that men do, well, where the fuck are the moms and the sisters sitting down and saying, hey, listen, man, go through this list, right?
	Well, because the fucking moms just want grandkids, right?
	The hell do they care about the disposable man who can be a straight by the family court system and any woman who comes along who's nine pounds of crazy in a three-pound pussy bag?
	Well...
	Anyway, she's not going to be any friend to any woman who's actually a friend of yours.
	And she's going to be great friends to a woman who's powering up her giant state court lasers to blow your penis into the stratosphere after you get married.
	Yeah.
	I think I have something to say about that because I really got out of a really dysfunctional relationship.
	My mom loved her.
	Oh, you're not without women anymore.
	It's Mankind Psychic, isn't it?
	How do I know these things?
	Because personality is destiny.
	Alright, listen man, we've got lots of other callers.
	Do you mind if we move on?
	Sure.
	I was kind of worried about my time here.
	No, listen, you needed a set of man boulders to roll past your pussy cave.
	Sorry about that.
	I mean, you're raised by a single mom, right?
	You don't have a man around.
	I didn't either, so I mean, I understand.
	I'm just trying to, you know, drop some man-sized castanets into your field of vision so that you can find your way out of the maternal cave.
	I'm just sort of mentioning that as a possibility, so I'm incredibly sorry for the lack of masculinity in your life, which was crippling to me when I was younger, too, so...
	Thanks a lot for your sympathy.
	You're very welcome, and give me a shout.
	Let me know how it goes, all right?
	Oh, yeah.
	Thanks.
	Mike!
	Hit me!
	I'm not sure if you actually want me to hit you, given the context of this show, or just go on with the next caller, but I'm going to...
	Bitch, slap me!
	The next caller.
	I want you to hit me as hard as you can.
	Not in the face!
	Not in the face!
	Not in the voice box!
	Alright, up next is Joey.
	Joey wrote in and said, I want to talk to Stefan about my secret girlfriend.
	I've been dating my current girlfriend for almost two years now.
	I'm white.
	She's black.
	Her family are Jehovah's Witnesses, and I'm not.
	We're both atheists.
	No one in either of our lives knows we're together, and our families don't even know that we're friends.
	We're concerned about what may happen if our families find out about the relationship.
	Please help.
	Ooh, you guys like it dangerous.
	All right, go ahead.
	Are you both there or just one?
	Hi, Stefan.
	Thanks, Mike.
	Sorry, can you repeat that?
	I'm just a little nervous.
	Are you both there or just one?
	No, just me.
	All right, why?
	Why is it a secret?
	No, why is there only one of you calling?
	Oh, she's at work.
	All right, all right, all right.
	Yeah.
	She knows that I'm calling, obviously, though.
	All right.
	So, two years has been going on.
	Her family doesn't know.
	Does your family know?
	No, I guess I can give a little bit of background.
	We were once openly friends when we were in high school.
	And I was bringing her around a little bit over my house.
	I live with my grandparents and my mother.
	And my mother's a racist.
	So she didn't want to come around anymore.
	I'm 20.
	She's also 20.
	Okay, got it.
	So your mother's a racist?
	In what way?
	Like how?
	Different degrees, right?
	I guess.
	I mean, she hates everyone pretty much.
	I don't even know how to say it.
	Oh, so she's like a speciesist.
	Right.
	All right, all right.
	So she doesn't discriminate, she just hates everyone.
	Okay, got it.
	But she has a special hate on for blacks, is that right?
	Right, she uses race to, you know, as a justification to hate people.
	And do you know what her objections are to Black's?
	No.
	I mean, I've asked her, but I don't get an answer that I can repeat.
	First of all, you can repeat.
	But second of all, I'm just glad we're not doing this show on Mother's Day.
	Can I just mention that?
	This is like the least hallmark-y show regarding moms.
	No, tell me, what does she say?
	I want to get a sense of who she is, so I can hopefully give you some useful responses.
	Black people are dirty, loud, ghetto.
	I don't know.
	Does she think they're dirty because their skin is darker?
	Like you just wash that off or they'd be like pearly white underneath?
	Yeah.
	I don't know what to say.
	I don't know.
	Wow.
	All right.
	Okay.
	So she thinks that they're dirty and that blacks are loud.
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Like, they just talk louder than other people?
	She knows that rappers are miked, right?
	Like, they don't...
	That's not a lollipop, and they don't sound that loud.
	Anyway, okay.
	And what was it?
	So, they were dirty, loud, and ghetto, is that right?
	Yeah.
	Right, so Denzel Washington, like, lives in subsidized government girlfriend farm housing, right?
	Okay.
	I guess so.
	Yeah, that Bill Cosby, man, he's just ghetto as all shit, right?
	Yep.
	Alright, and anything else?
	Well, just to go back to what I was talking about, I used to bring my girlfriend over just as friends, and she didn't even want her over.
	And her family is Jehovah's Witness, and because I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, they don't want me around at their house either.
	So now neither of our families know that we're even friends.
	And just by us being friends secretly, we've built a relationship, and now we're dating.
	Right, right.
	I'm sorry to be indelicate.
	Are you sexually active with the woman?
	Yes, we are.
	Okay.
	Obviously, you're using protection six ways from Sunday, I'm going to assume?
	Yes.
	Okay, good.
	Because, you know, I mean, there's a ways of being outed that are less subtle than others, right?
	Okay.
	Right.
	Well, we were, for the first, I want to say, one year and 11 months, we didn't have sex.
	We didn't do anything sexual.
	We just kissed, and then we decided, okay, we love each other.
	Wait a sec.
	You've been going out for two years, and for the first one year and 11 months, you didn't do anything sexual?
	Other than kissing?
	No.
	Wow.
	I guess she learned the meaning of the phrase white tsunami at that point.
	All right.
	All right.
	And you're both atheists, is that right?
	Correct.
	And is her family as crazy as the Jehovah's Witnesses that I've talked on this show for the last couple of years?
	Are they as crazy as I think?
	Or are they less or more?
	Probably more.
	Right.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And what do you love about your girlfriend?
	I actually made a list of this because I knew you were going to ask me.
	She is curious, ambitious, patient, honest, polite, generous, and compassionate.
	Fantastic.
	That's great to hear.
	For the balanced perspective floors, Flaws?
	I would say...
	That was a good question.
	I know.
	I like to talk to them at least once a show.
	That was a very good question.
	Her flaws.
	She had many flaws when we met, and then we worked them out.
	Like, she used to be a Jehovah's Witness.
	She used to not know what philosophy was.
	She used to be a statist.
	She used to not...
	We're both vegans, too.
	She used to not be a vegan.
	I don't know.
	She didn't understand morals.
	She didn't even know what a virtue was.
	And we're still working on, like, discussing what virtue is every time.
	You know, we love talking about philosophy.
	We listen to your show.
	Alright, and what does she love about you?
	I've asked her that just the other day.
	She also made a list.
	She said that I am courageous.
	I'm also curious.
	She said that I'm very passionate and hardworking.
	And what would she say your flaws are?
	She would say that...
	I think my biggest flaw, she would say, might be procrastination with schoolwork.
	And with the commencement of sexual activity.
	No, I'm just kidding.
	Go ahead.
	And that I'm not very patient.
	Like, you know, other than the sex, of course.
	But, like, just, I don't know.
	She would say that I'm very patient.
	Right.
	And what are your plans with this fine young lady?
	We want to get married and live on our own happily ever after.
	And if we have enough money and we can settle down, maybe have a child.
	What do you mean maybe have a child?
	If we have enough money to afford staying home and spending time with the child.
	Why wouldn't you have enough money?
	Well that's kind of the main problem is that we don't have enough money to even move out right now.
	Well, you're 20.
	I mean, my God, right?
	I know, but that's kind of the reason why I'm calling in is because I'm just so unhappy being with my family and not being able to be around her.
	And I want to spend the rest of my life with this woman.
	And that's kind of the main reason that it's just financial problems.
	I just can't afford to live on my own.
	So if I was living with her, I would want to have enough money to where I can be home with my child before I would want to consider even having a child.
	So, if one of you can stay home, and unless you're differently piped than I am, it should be her with the breast milk, but if one of you can stay home, then you do want to have kids.
	And how many kids do you want to have?
	Let's start out with one.
	No, but these are important questions.
	You don't have to have final answers, but you do have to have some conditional answers, right?
	The answer we've come up with is one.
	Oh, one child?
	Right.
	Okay.
	And you both sort of agree that's the way you want to do it?
	Right.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	And...
	Do you think that you can sustain your relationship with each other and your family relationships as well?
	Most likely not.
	What percentage would you give it of being able to do it?
	80%.
	So you think 80% you can keep your relationship with each other and your relationship with your families of origin?
	No, 80% that I couldn't keep it with the family of origin.
	Oh, 20% you think.
	So what do you think would have to happen for that 20% to be achieved?
	The plan that her and I have talked about was once we're Able to financially be independent we would approach our families and just say this is what this we're We're together and This is why we love each other and if you're not going to accept that then you won't be a part of our lives and then the choice is there Well, I mean So there's nothing you could do in particular, right?
	It's just you add this, right?
	Yeah No, there's no convincing anyone in my family that otherwise, I mean, you have religious, you have racist, and you, you know, what are you going to do?
	Is your mother also religious?
	She's an atheist, but I don't think she understands why.
	Like she's just lazy?
	Like church is too early?
	Too much ironing?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Too much ironing.
	Too much hairspray.
	All right.
	And your dad?
	My father lives in California.
	He and my mother were never married.
	And, well, he's on the other side of the country, is what I'm saying.
	And he didn't even know I was born until I was seven months old.
	And he was never a big factor in my life.
	So was he like a fling?
	Yes.
	Well, yeah, I guess.
	They dated for about a month.
	So he has a fling.
	Okay, so a slightly longer fling, but a fling nonetheless.
	Yeah, right.
	I mean, I still see him on summer and winter vacations, which is just emotionally damaging on my part.
	And I still have contact with his parents, my father's grandparents.
	I mean, my grandparents on my father's side.
	And what's your father like?
	My father is cold-hearted and into sports, so he's not philosophical.
	He listens to the Peter Schiff show, which I don't know if that's a bad thing or not, that he's cold-hearted and listens to Peter Schiff.
	So he's probably heard me, right?
	No, he's heard, yeah, but I don't think he really agrees with much of what you say.
	I never know what to say with people like that, because it's like, you know, it's not up to you, it's not up to me.
	Just, you know, I don't agree with gravity.
	Okay, well, not that I'm gravity, it's just that, you know, disagreeing with stuff.
	Yeah, I don't know if they say anything about that.
	So, but what's your dad like?
	So, he listens to Peter Schiff ain't much, right?
	Yeah, and he's cold-hearted, and he's, I mean, I don't know my father very well, so I can't say much about him.
	And why did your parents not stay together when you were conceived?
	My father said that my mother is batshit crazy.
	And my mother said that my father is a man whore.
	Your father called your mother a man whore?
	No, no, no.
	The other way around.
	Oh, I'm sorry, sorry.
	Your mother called your father a man whore.
	And my father called her batshit crazy.
	Well, that's how it works, right?
	Yeah.
	The alpha males and the crazy hot women, they make babies.
	And I'm sorry that this was your environment.
	I mean, this was my environment, too.
	My dad was an alpha male and my mom was hot and crazy.
	You know, she's crazy hot.
	It's like, actually, that's just the same word in general.
	And the reason for that...
	Okay, so hang on.
	So how did your mom have the money to raise you?
	She didn't.
	She got the money through my grandparents.
	Her parents.
	Oh, her parents.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Right.
	Yeah, so, I mean, the mating strategy for women, particularly hot women, is find an alpha guy, have his baby, and then get the resources from someone else to raise that child.
	Does that make sense?
	I understand, yes.
	And it can be from the alpha male.
	It can be from the alpha male through the court system.
	It can be from getting some beta male provider who's pussy hungry to pony up to raise another man's child so he get access to a fairly cavernous vagina.
	But generally, the hot women have sex with the alpha guys, maybe get pregnant, and then try and get someone else to provide the resources necessary to raise the children.
	And in this case, it was her own parents, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So you're a good-looking guy?
	Yeah, I am.
	Yeah, because your mom's hot and your dad's an alpha, so you're a good-looking guy.
	And the temptation, of course, which it sounds like you're resisting.
	Sorry, alpha male.
	The alpha male, it depends.
	The alpha male, if a woman in her 20s, is a hot guy that she can impress her friends with and put in the spank bank for when she's married to the baiter.
	But the alpha male later is the man with the most resources.
	But basically the alpha male, because women are generally, they don't think things through themselves, they just go for social consensus.
	The alpha male is whoever other women find attractive that increases her status and so on.
	So...
	How attractive is your girlfriend?
	About a seven.
	And you?
	Ten.
	You're a ten?
	Nine.
	She said I'm a nine.
	I thought I was a ten, but I guess I was too confident in myself.
	No, no, ten.
	Look, go with your first impulse.
	I have no problem with that.
	Yeah, she said, no, you can improve, therefore you're a nine.
	I'm like, all right, fine.
	And how does she think you can improve?
	She's, you know, toning out my muscles, I guess.
	I don't know.
	I'm sorry, I didn't hear what was that?
	Tone out my muscles, like...
	Oh, get more toned in your muscles?
	Yeah.
	Actually, I didn't have time to work out today.
	I'm actually doing it during the show, just a little bit.
	So, you know, it still doesn't push me into 10 category.
	Well, I'm in the 47-year-old category, so...
	All right.
	And what do you want to do with your life?
	I want to...
	Well, what do you mean?
	Like, family-wise?
	Job-wise?
	No, sorry.
	I meant professionally.
	Professionally.
	Okay.
	Well, I'm going to college.
	I'm a junior now in university, majoring in economics.
	I wanted to work in the private sector, just, you know, analyst or something in financing.
	So you're a 10.
	Who's majoring in economics?
	Dude, I want your number.
	I'm not even gay, but I'm just telling you.
	If we get emails saying like, A, send me a picture of his abs, and B, I want his bank account numbers, we won't forward them to you, just in case.
	Just in case.
	All right.
	So you're a junior, so you've got three years to go, is that right?
	One year to go for my bachelor's, and if I wanted to get my MBA, then yeah.
	Oh, good for you.
	Okay.
	Do you want to get your MBA? I'm considering it, yeah.
	Why?
	You don't want to, like, have a job?
	You don't want to work?
	You just want to get pieces of paper that allow you to work for idiots?
	I despise school with a passion, but I'm very good at it.
	Yeah, I mean, why not just go do something entrepreneurial?
	You may have heard something called Bitcoin.
	I mean, geez, they'd like economists to get involved in what they're doing, right?
	More paper!
	No fiat currency!
	Right, okay.
	All right, so potentially, so you're going back for your last year in September, then you finish like a year from now, right?
	Correct.
	All right.
	And what are your plans then?
	Are you going to, well, actually I'm going to lead the witness.
	What are your plans then?
	After I get a job move out with her confront my family if it doesn't work out we're gonna move very far away from here and Find jobs settle down Did you say move in with her?
	Oh, yeah, absolutely No, don't do that.
	Why not?
	Well, because it ruins the success rate of marriage, right?
	I mean, you don't have to believe me.
	It doesn't mean this is for sure, but generally people who live together end up getting divorced far more often than people who just get married.
	I mean, if you want to have kids with the woman, if she's the one for you, then just get married, right?
	Then live together.
	Statistically, I mean, you're a numbers guy.
	That gives you the best chances of success.
	Okay, I'll marry her then.
	And then move in with her.
	I mean, that's fine.
	Look up the information, right?
	Just look up the information.
	No, I understand, but I mean, I love this woman.
	If you're, you know, yeah, I'll marry her.
	That's kind of what I meant by moving in with her.
	I'm not really religious, but I understand what you meant by the marrying thing.
	Look, it can be a ceremony among your friends or whoever is there that you are committed to.
	I don't care if you get a piece of paper.
	It's not a government thing, right?
	I'm just saying that don't just say, well, let's move in together.
	I mean, let's have roommates with sex.
	Like, let's really aim to make a life together and be publicly out as a lifelong couple so that if you have problems, your friends will help you get back together rather than, say, you know, dump the woman, right?
	I feel like an idiot.
	I'm sorry I didn't make that clear, but that's exactly what I meant.
	Okay, good.
	I just want to be clear, right?
	I want to give you guys the greatest chance of success possible.
	All right.
	Where do you think you might live?
	No, no, don't answer that.
	Don't answer that.
	Sorry.
	For reasons that we can talk about, perhaps offline.
	Okay, don't answer that.
	Sorry for asking.
	And what help can I give you in particular?
	Helping me...
	Deal with the struggle of being with the family that I'm with for the next two years until I finish school and I'm able to live on my own.
	You said one year.
	Well, yeah.
	One year and another year to save up money.
	I don't know.
	However long it's going to take.
	A year or two years.
	Well, I don't know.
	I mean, look, I don't want to sound insensitive, but I got my first job when I was nine and a half and I've been paying my own bills more or less since I was 15.
	So the idea that you've got...
	And that was like when I was still in high school working three jobs.
	You know, I cleaned offices at night.
	I was a waiter.
	I had, you know, just a variety of...
	I have jobs that I did.
	And so, you know, the idea that you've got to work home and save up money with, you know, when you're a guy who's really good looking, which helps you economically, right?
	That's one of the reasons I asked, is that good looking people get hired a lot more and end up making more money.
	So you've got an econ degree, you're really good looking, and you're a 10, right?
	So your economic opportunities are huge, right?
	And I basically left my parents when I was 15.
	And I'm not recommending that.
	I'm not saying like, yay, you should do that.
	I'm just saying that then when you say, well, I'm really good looking, I got an economics degree, but I need a year to save up money.
	I'm like, I don't know that you do.
	That's all I'm saying, right?
	And I don't know either.
	I was just being conservative about it.
	And I, you know, I would not spend a year of my precious existence in a hellhole of racism and bigotry and hatred for the love of my life.
	For what?
	To get a slightly bigger apartment?
	Come on.
	Right.
	It's a year of your life.
	You're living in a poison pill container, right?
	An acid womb nest of hell.
	Just for what?
	To gain up a little bit money?
	No, I mean.
	If you're going to go do it, go do it, right?
	I mean, you have great opportunities.
	I mean, the unemployment rate for people with good college degrees is pretty low.
	And you listen to this show, which means you've got an IQ, I would assume, of at least 120, probably higher.
	So you're a smart, good-looking guy with a great degree.
	My God, I mean, if you can't get out there and make it, then there's no such thing as an economy, right?
	I'm just having a...
	Sorry.
	I'm just having a very difficult time with the emotional part of dealing with this family and her family.
	What do you mean?
	Just every day is so difficult and just thinking about having to take another year to deal with all this is...
	Sorry, but what do you mean by...
	I'm not saying it's not difficult.
	I'm not disagreeing with you on that, but what do you mean when you say it's difficult to deal with?
	I'm not sure what deal with is one of these...
	Phrases that I don't really know what it means.
	Okay, I'll tell you what it means.
	It means that our families are abusive and physically, verbally, and it's just...
	Yeah.
	Do you want me to tell you how the physically and verbally abusive work?
	I'm happy to hear.
	Okay.
	Well, my grandfather is verbally abusive and threatening.
	My mother physically abused me as a child and is still verbally abusive and manipulative.
	My grandmother is passive.
	Her father is physically abusive, extremely physically abusive, like punching in the face or in the stomach.
	Do you mean, sorry, her father is physically abusive towards who?
	Towards her and her two brothers and other sister.
	Do you mean in the past or even now?
	In the past and now.
	So he punches your mom in the face?
	No, he punches her and her siblings in the face.
	So, wow.
	Sorry, I'm sorry.
	I know you're feeling impatient.
	I'm just trying to get a map.
	So...
	Wait, no.
	Sorry, that came out.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	I'm sorry, that came out wrong.
	He doesn't punch them in the face.
	He punches them in the stomach.
	He punches them in areas other than the face so that it doesn't, like, show when they go out in public.
	That's what I mean.
	Sorry about that.
	So, your mother's father punches her and her siblings in...
	Yes, my girlfriend's father does to my girlfriend's siblings.
	And her.
	And her, yes.
	I'm so sorry.
	God, that's terrifying.
	Does she not feel comfortable calling the police in these situations?
	Because that's criminal behavior, right?
	No, she doesn't feel comfortable doing that.
	Because she did it in the past and it just made things worse because the police didn't do anything.
	And then she was beaten.
	Right.
	Sorry.
	I would imagine, of course, that this has been occurring for as long as she's being conscious of being alive, I would assume, right?
	Thank you.
	Yes.
	Do you mind if I ask you a tough question?
	Go for it.
	Are you sure that you're not white knighting in this particular situation, damsel in distress, must save her?
	No, because I fell in love with her before I knew that she was being abused.
	Yeah, but she would have signs, right?
	Yeah, she was very shy.
	What have the effects of the abuse been on her?
	Shy, introverted, not courageous at all until she met me and then we've been working on that.
	Hey, wait a minute.
	Oh, don't you dare call her not courageous.
	Come on.
	Come on.
	I don't mean to white knight here, but calling her not courageous when she's being assaulted...
	No, by her not being courageous, I mean, she thought it was okay that she was being hit.
	She thought that she needed to be disciplined because her religion told her so.
	I don't think that, you know, if she's a teenager when this was occurring and when she had this mindset, I wouldn't necessarily say that that's not courageous.
	Plus, I mean, in the black community, child abuse is even more prevalent than in the white community, right?
	Right.
	So what would you call it then?
	Well, Stockholm Syndrome, right?
	Okay.
	It's a survival technique to bond with the abuser because the abuser attacks a difference of opinion.
	Because a difference of opinion creates control anxiety on the part of the abuser.
	You can't separate yourself from an abuser.
	The abuser needs the victim.
	Like, if you've ever needed to throw up, the first thing you do is you grab a garbage can or a bag or a sink or something so you don't throw up on the carpet, right?
	Right.
	And so the abuser is filled with so much self-loathing and hatred and venom that they need to grab a container to vomit into, and that's how they abuse others.
	Now, the abuse is harder to enact If you have a sense of the other person as a human being, rather than a kind of inanimate garbage can you can vomit into.
	And so, to survive an abuser, you have to meld with their personality.
	You have to say yes when they say yes, you have to know.
	And you have to internalize their belief structures to survive an abuser.
	Right?
	Right.
	Because the abuser senses when the garbage can is trying to run away, right?
	And what I mean by that is the abuser senses at an unconscious level when the victim is attempting or has a thought that is separate or opposite or against the self-interest, which is any thought at all, really, against the self-interest of the abuser, right?
	And so you can't pretend that To like the abuser.
	You can't pretend to respect the abuser.
	Like the end of 1984, you actually have to love Big Brother in order to survive.
	And the degree of the abuse is the degree Of the melding with the abuser's personality because it is the best chance you have to receive the least abuse, to have the less independence.
	Anytime there's any independence of thought or consciousness or individuality or personality or emotion that is not completely melded with the abuser, the abuser senses the garbage can and is trying to run away and pounds into it.
	Can I just address your example real quick?
	Yeah, please.
	You used the example in 1984.
	The people in 1984, the people that didn't question Big Brother, wouldn't they not be considered courageous?
	Well, but they weren't 18, they weren't 15, they weren't 12.
	Right.
	And to question something means that you have to have access to alternate information, right?
	Okay.
	Which is why these crazy cults tend to keep everyone in the same belief set, right?
	Okay.
	So...
	Do you think that...
	Winston Smith was a coward at the end of 1984.
	No.
	Why?
	Good question.
	Well, at the end, I'm not sure.
	But I know that throughout, he tried challenging Big Brother.
	So at those moments, I would have called him courageous.
	And I guess, even though...
	Well, no, I would call him courageous because he only caved in because he was tortured, right?
	If I remember correctly.
	Yeah, he only caved in if you...
	Yeah, because he was tortured.
	Right.
	So, yeah, I would consider him courageous.
	All right.
	And your girlfriend was tortured.
	Okay.
	And still is.
	As a child.
	Right?
	Torture that is inflicted upon an adult is destructive enough, but an adult has an already existing personality.
	Like, a soldier who faces daily death has that terror inflicted upon an already adult personality, a child who's the victim of these savage kinds of attacks.
	And listen, I mean, punching anyone in the abdomen, punching a woman in the abdomen can render her infertile, can break her spleen, can bust open her intestines, can cause permanent damage, can kill her, as is true for a man as well, right?
	Right.
	And so she faced the daily threat of murder, potential murder.
	I mean, this is physical assault against children is so incredibly dangerous because their bodies are developing.
	And I don't know the degree of rage that her father experienced, but you don't ever as a kid want to figure out where the end point of that rage is because it might be you just being dead.
	You might lose your footing and stumble and bang your head against a bedpost or fall down some stairs.
	The moment you uncork the demon of physical violence in any intimate relationship, but particularly where there's a size and strength differential, not to mention a legal opposite status, it is a death threat on the part of a child.
	The reason I'm saying this and the reason I reacted so strongly is that I caved in to my mother.
	I conformed to my mother because she was beating my head against a door to the point where I was terrified that I literally could die or could receive a brain injury.
	And this was when I was three or four years old when I tried to run away in the middle of the night and she caught me trying to creep out of the apartment.
	And she caught me and she beat my head against the door and I went limp and I just, I gave up, I gave in because I recognized that rebellion or independence or, I mean, what hell I was experiencing and I remember the night very clearly, what the hell I was experiencing, the insanity, the violence and so on that I was experiencing that had me, you know, grab a bag of old cookies and try and head out into the night at like two o'clock in the morning.
	I do not ever imagine that I was cowardly in that moment.
	That was what I needed to do in order to survive, in order to not be killed, in order to not receive brain damage or a concussion or something that would have killed me or destroyed my cognitive capacities or at least undermined them.
	Okay.
	And...
	Later, I began to rebel when I got older and bigger.
	So once when my mom was about to hit me, I realized that I was her size.
	I think I was 13 or so.
	And I took a door and I swung the door and it hit her on the hand.
	And of course, like the horrendous fucking bitch that she was and is, she got all kinds of offended that I would dare to do anything to protect myself.
	That I would hit her.
	What kind of fucking monster child was I? Well, a monster child who recognizes an unholy bitch when he's seen one for about 13 years fucking straight.
	And if I had been an unforgiving person, I might have beat her head against the door until she had a concussion and said, payback time, bitch.
	I'm your size now.
	Guess that didn't work out too well for you now, did it?
	But I'm quite a gentle person in many ways, and so I have not responded in kind to what I was subjected to for many years.
	So I'm just pointing out that she was not a coward.
	This was an absolutely necessary survival strategy.
	Okay, I understand.
	All right.
	You seem upset that I'm pointing this out.
	No, I'm upset with myself for not realizing it.
	No, I understand.
	Look, and I'm not calling you unsympathetic.
	For not realizing this.
	This is part of the whole propaganda of parenthood that is fundamentally the matrix that we live in.
	And I talk about parents...
	Sorry, I talk about culture and religion and nationalism.
	It's all parents.
	Parents are the primary transmission for all of these mental viruses.
	They are the transmission machines for all of these irrational viruses and all of this violence and so on.
	And...
	So, like in the same way I said, if you don't have the information, you're not responsible, right?
	You have grown up in a society where parents are always the victims and children are always the perpetrators, in general.
	Okay.
	Steph?
	Yeah.
	I just wanted to go back real quick.
	You said that you were...
	You said that you conformed to your mother as a survival mechanism when you were younger, correct?
	Yeah.
	Was your life easier when you conformed until you were able to, you know, be independent?
	Was it easier to just conform?
	Look, I'm trying literally not to get offended because I know that you're coming from a place of not having information or not having sensitivity to these issues.
	But if somebody almost gets killed when they're three by their own mother, saying, was your life easier?
	It's not really the right word that you want.
	What's the right word?
	Well, you know what it's like saying?
	It's like saying, was your rape easier after you stopped fighting?
	No, it was still fucking hell.
	I just didn't get killed.
	My rape was not easier when I stopped fighting, and my life didn't get easier when I conformed to my mother, but at least I didn't get killed.
	So to relate back to what she's going through right now...
	No, hang on, hang on.
	You keep brushing past this emotional stuff.
	Okay.
	Do you see what I'm saying that you say, well, did your life get easier?
	And the reason I'm saying this is that if you can't understand this stuff, then you are going to have a really tough time connecting with your girlfriend at this level.
	And I don't want you to go in with any illusions about the damage that has been done to your girlfriend and the damage that has been done to you.
	Because the reason why you're connected is that...
	One of the reasons, you have intellectual connections, you have moral connections, and I think those are great, and I don't want to dismiss those, right?
	But you have unprocessed trauma.
	Because you don't have the language to accurately describe what has occurred.
	And there's no reason why you would.
	You live in a culture that continually buries the bodies of these monsters and then say, nothing here to see but fertile grass, right?
	And you don't have the language yet, but it's important because that language is going to run your marriage if you don't know what the actual language is to describe the crimes that you've been subjected to and that she's been subjected to.
	So no, my life did not get easier when I submitted to my mother because life with my mother was never easy.
	And it never got easier, but I managed to avoid getting killed or brain damaged.
	Or I got through my whole childhood with no broken bones.
	You know, my mother used to throw cutlery.
	I got through my whole childhood without any knives to the eyeballs.
	She used to throw, like, hot cookie trays.
	I managed to get through my whole childhood without third-degree burns.
	I don't know that that's easier.
	But I was pretty fucking nimble.
	So your girlfriend's life did not get easier when she conformed.
	But at least she didn't die, or at least she didn't get permanent internal damage.
	She didn't bleed out.
	She didn't fall down a set of stairs and break her arm, her leg, her neck.
	She didn't get choked in a fit of uncontrollable rage by opposing anything that her insane father was committing against her.
	So, she didn't get killed, but I wouldn't ever use the word easier myself.
	yourself.
	Thank you.
	Okay, I apologize.
	No, that's fine.
	Look, I completely understand it, and I don't want you to self-attack based on this.
	I just really want to be clear about my guess about what your girlfriend has been through.
	Okay.
	That's why I wanted to challenge you on the cowardly thing.
	I think that your girlfriend, by getting through to philosophy and having independent thoughts, thoughts that can go against her abusers, is filled with the kind of heroics that statues reaching to the fucking stratosphere should be built in the world.
	But most likely what your girlfriend is going to face as the result of her courage and integrity is a lifetime of scorn and blame and but your parents were doing the best they could but the knowledge that they had and what do you mean if you don't talk to your parents you don't talk to your parents how horrendous how terrible how disrespectful how ungrateful right Most people,
	when they see the adult victims of childhood wounds, just fucking lean in with salty thumbs and grind around in there.
	Because society runs on sadism.
	That is the fundamental joy juice of the vampires who surround us.
	And if you ever doubt that, just be vulnerable to the people in your life.
	And see to what degree they will side with abusers, to what degree they will turn the thumbscrews in when you say that hurts.
	Be vulnerable with people and you will see, I would imagine, the degree to which society is sadism and sadism is society.
	And everything else is just end credits.
	But...
	So that's why my question from earlier is, what are you dealing with, with your family?
	And again, I'm not saying you have nothing to deal with, I just really want to understand what that word means, because it could mean so many different things.
	You say, how do I deal with the next year?
	My grandfather verbally...
	I need to know what that phrase means.
	Okay.
	My grandfather verbally abusing me and my mother with threats of, you know, we're going to kick you out of the house and you're going to live on the street if you don't do what I say.
	My house, my rules kind of thing.
	Well, I can give you some of the strategies that I used when I was younger than you, which is just don't be home.
	You know, as my mother used to say, you're treating this place like it's a goddamn hotel.
	I mean, like, I think I'd get way better fucking service in a hotel, right?
	The maids don't try and beat up on me, and the food doesn't taste like shit.
	So you can do the strategy called, don't be home, right?
	What?
	Dude, you have, like, no emotions.
	What's going on here?
	You're like, okay, alright, okay.
	I mean, are we discussing your laundry list or your psychic survival?
	I cried about 20 minutes ago and then I stopped crying.
	I don't know.
	Alright.
	Well, I mean, we can either talk about your lack of emotion so I can give you a little bit of practical advice and move on.
	It's your choice.
	I would like practical advice, please.
	Alright.
	So start looking for work now.
	Like right now, like tomorrow.
	Start looking for work.
	See if you can get anything part-time so that you have an easier time transitioning into a professional environment.
	While you're in school, get some therapy because it will be free or heavily subsidized for you while you're in school.
	Save up as much money as you can.
	Try and reduce debt as much as possible before transitioning out.
	That depends, of course, on the degree to which you may be able to get interest deferrals and all of that, which I'm sure you can figure out being an econ major and all that kind of stuff.
	Make sure you don't get the girl pregnant.
	Please pass along to her my incredible admiration for where she's at and what she's done and my incredible sympathy.
	I hope she'll listen to this, but my incredible sympathy for the vicious, cowardly assaults that she has received and that her siblings have received for their childhoods.
	I find nothing more contemptible than people who physically attack children and except maybe those people who defend those people who physically attack children because it's those people's defense which is why the physical abusers know that they can get away with it and try and spend as little time as possible With abusers, if you're still living under their roof, I think that's a shame and I think that's really tough.
	If there's any options or any availability of student housing or, you know, when I was a student, I lived with five other people in a house, four gay guys and a lesbian, not that it really matters.
	And if you have any alternatives for where to live, I think that's important.
	But I think you need to read your Alice Miller, you need to read your John Bradshaw and your Nathaniel Brandon.
	And you really need to understand the degree of trauma that your girlfriend has been through.
	Physical trauma, emotional trauma, existential trauma, right?
	Which is this very extremist religious position.
	And I think that will give you the best chance to be able to build a sort of happy and peaceful and prosperous life when you are done with your studies.
	And Live your life, live your values.
	You don't owe your parents anything.
	You don't owe them obedience, you don't owe them loyalty, you don't owe them respect, you don't owe them anything.
	There is no such thing as a free lunch, and abusing children has its consequences.
	So whatever you decide to do, I think it's...
	I think it's important to have integrity to your values rather than to society's preferences or the preferences of bad people.
	So I hope that helps, and I certainly wish you the best.
	Stefan?
	I'm happy to hear.
	Yes, sir?
	Okay.
	Do we have enough time to address the lack of emotion you were talking about before?
	Well, that's up to you.
	I can't address it if you're not willing to do the work.
	No, I would love to talk about it.
	No, I would love to talk about it.
	All right.
	So you cried, and what stopped it?
	You started talking about...
	I cried when you were talking about when you were three.
	And then after you kept going on, I was starting to lose sight of how it related back to me.
	And then I was thinking about...
	I needed the practical advice to get on with the next year of my life.
	That was the main reason why I called.
	So that was why I stopped crying.
	Yes, but what I was talking about was not about you.
	I know.
	Wait, it was about my girlfriend.
	And it wasn't about me either.
	Yeah, it was about your girlfriend.
	Right.
	Right.
	So what it means is that that degree of empathy is a challenge for you.
	It's like diving without a scuba gear, like a snorkel, right?
	You can take a deep breath, you can go, but you've got to come back, right?
	Right?
	Right?
	Because it's painful.
	It's painful to stay with that level of empathy.
	Which was, you know, me talking about it.
	I can talk about it in a way that hopefully is not triggering for other people.
	And, you know, I've processed a huge amount of this.
	And I don't honestly think about it that much.
	For some reason today, my daughter is fascinated, of course, by my childhood.
	And I want to tell her about my childhood.
	Nothing too traumatic.
	But I want to tell her about my childhood so that she remembers that I'm not some giant guy who gave, you know, who's her dad.
	And I just remember being sent off at the age of seven or eight to go on this young explorer's expedition of hiking to the Outer Hebrides where the weather was so bad.
	We spent all but two nights of our two weeks sleeping in bus shelters and barns and it's just wet and horrible and you know everything was damp and we were all piled up together like cordwood sleeping up against chilled dusty glass in bus shelters and all that and just what an insane thing to do.
	I remember walking, on one of the few sunny days, we were walking along a beach in this sort of little rolling hills with shrubs alongside a beach.
	And I was last, because I was the youngest, and I was last, and my backpack was getting lighter.
	And I thought, am I getting stronger?
	And I turned around and looked, and I saw that My clothes, my underwear, you know, a couple of books and some toys that had all fallen out of my backpack and were trailed off behind.
	And I was already behind everyone who was ahead of me.
	And I didn't know what to do.
	I thought, well, if I run ahead, then I lose all the stuff that I need for the trip.
	But if I go back, I could get lost.
	I don't know where we're going.
	It's kind of the middle of nowhere out here.
	And I just bursted at tears.
	I didn't know what to do.
	And naturally, because I was in a British environment, I was punished for feeling helpless and for being seven.
	Or eight or whatever it was.
	And I was confined to my tent for the afternoon for being upset.
	And I remember poking my head out at the tent and some boys had found a World War II mine and a torpedo.
	They were on the beach.
	I don't know if they'd uncovered them or not because I was stuck in the tent.
	And they were jumping up and down on these bombs and on these mines that they had found until the asshole in charge just yelled at them or screamed at them or whatever.
	And, I mean, it's a very potent metaphor.
	I mean, it's like they just didn't even want to live, right?
	I mean, just fucking end it now.
	I want to be a red mist of historical reenactment.
	And so my daughter's really curious about all this stuff that happens.
	And my daughter's empathy is coming along great.
	I cut my tongue the other day and she winced and she said, oh, I feel that in my own tongue.
	And I'm like, oh good, mirror neurons implanted.
	Yay!
	She will now forever have empathy and I just have to make sure that she avoids people who sense that and use it to manipulate her.
	And so it could be that for you it's, I mean, when you love someone, seeing them harmed is very painful, right?
	Extremely.
	And Seeing her or imagining her as a child being punched by this lunatic is incredibly painful.
	One of the things that happens with love is vulnerability, right?
	When I see people, when I saw people early on in the marriage mistreating my wife, whoa, right?
	And it may be too early, right?
	I'm sorry go ahead.
	Did it make you angry?
	Absolutely.
	Completely and totally.
	There is a male protective instinct.
	And there are female protective instincts too.
	And again, I'm not a woman, right?
	But there are male protective instincts that what you love, you wish to shield.
	What you love, you wish to protect.
	I can relate to that.
	Yeah, and so if you really connect with the horror of your girlfriend's history, the level of male protective rage you will feel is going to be pretty strong.
	Mm-hmm.
	Right.
	And it may be too strong an emotion, both for your own history and for your girlfriend's history, to connect with while you're in a place of physical danger, right?
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	So it may be that when you have some economic and geographic independence, you may have a greater capacity to get in touch with your emotions because you won't be constantly triggered by this proximate danger.
	Someone said I'm going to turn into the Hulk.
	No, and there is this fear, absolutely.
	I mean, I experienced murderous rage towards my mother and other members of my family.
	Of course.
	I mean, because all of that bottled up and destroyed fight-or-flight self-defense mechanism It was still all there.
	It had just been suppressed.
	And then when I got some independence, when I got some physical size and strength, and particularly when I got into therapy and had some support for my more dangerous and unsettling emotions, yeah, they were very strong.
	I never had any impulse to act on them, but the degree of rage was Was a challenge, for sure.
	Because that rage would definitely have got me killed as a kid.
	I mean, almost for sure.
	Whether it had occurred in boarding school, where they hit me with a cane, or whether it had...
	And now, of course, which is different from when I was a kid, now, of course, the children are facing the biochemical warfare of these mind-altering drugs, these SSRIs, right?
	These psychotropics.
	And so it's not...
	You know, parents can get their kids on those drugs like that.
	I mean, they can just go shopping around to a psychiatrist, and the psychiatrist will just drug the kid.
	And it's brutal on the kid's emotional, physical, social development.
	And so there's a lot of...
	And this is how desperate society is becoming, and this is how unstable culture is becoming, that...
	There's this massive movement to drug non-compliant children and there are only a few cautious voices in the periphery who have any significant doubts about it.
	It is astonishing.
	Now, Steph, can you go in further detail about the lack of emotion you were talking about from before?
	Well, no, because you're still experiencing it now.
	Or not experiencing it, right?
	I don't need to remind something of you of something before.
	I mean, what do you feel now?
	I feel angry and sad.
	Right.
	And this is partly the problem with audio only, which is that I don't hear it in your voice.
	Your voice sounds like you're reading the phone book.
	Well, I'm sitting here shaking and touching my face constantly and I muted my mic a couple times because I was breathing very heavily.
	Okay, but why did you mute your mic?
	Do you think that your feelings would be wrong or inappropriate to the conversation?
	No, I thought I was going to overwhelm what you were saying because I was breathing very heavily.
	What's wrong with overwhelming what I'm saying?
	The listeners wouldn't be able to hear you?
	That's my thought.
	What's wrong if the listeners can't hear me?
	Nothing.
	I guess this show's for me, isn't it?
	Bingo.
	I've heard you say it before, so...
	No, but this is an important principle, because in your experience, people's emotions erase the other person, right?
	Because the emotions are rage and violence and abuse and hysteria and manipulation and false tears and whatever, right?
	Yeah.
	So for you, emotions erase the other person.
	That's your experience growing up, right?
	Yes, definitely.
	And so you're like, well, I better not be emotional because then that will eclipse Steph and he won't be there.
	So I won't be here so that Steph can be there because if I'm here, Steph isn't there, right?
	to win the leads.
	No, it makes a lot of sense.
	Thank you.
	Right.
	And that is, if you're not aware of that paradigm, all abuse, of course, is win-lose, right?
	It's win-lose.
	Win-lose, win-lose, win-lose.
	I satisfy my emotional needs by punching you in the stomach.
	So I win and you fucking lose.
	And don't you ever dare mess with that equation because I frankly am such a loser in my own mind that I constantly need to reaffirm my power because I'm falling.
	And if you're falling, you're constantly grabbing out at something to stop you from falling.
	So for you, emotionality is narcissistic.
	It is self-indulgent and erases others, right?
	Right.
	I don't want to interrupt Stefan with my presence.
	That's not an interruption.
	And your presence is what is desperately needed to survive what is coming for you.
	And your girlfriend.
	You need to be really present, and you are going to need to be really, really in touch with your emotions to navigate what is coming.
	Because you guys are doing a Romeo and Juliet stand against religion, abuse, and a family cycle of history that has probably gone on for about 150,000 years.
	That's the natural forces of abuse.
	That is what you are standing up against.
	You are defying physics itself in terms of your family history.
	You are changing the whole course of the family history and you're changing the whole course of human history.
	Because this has been humanity's lot for the most part up to modern times.
	And it's people like you and your girlfriend, whether you guys make it as a couple, make it as parents, or whether something else happens, who knows, right?
	I certainly wish you the very best together.
	But you are literally saying stop to a tsunami of blood that has its origins in the prehistory of the species.
	So yeah, that's pretty fucking standing on a bridge facing a balrog.
	With nothing but a wet fish in your hand and your heart in your other.
	That's pretty fucking courageous.
	But you need to be in touch with your outrage.
	You need to be in touch with your capacity to identify and reject horror if you are to get out from this underworld of shitty people.
	Thank you.
	This is the place where I notice people are missing.
	Thank you.
	I'm suppressing my emotions right now.
	Why?
	And I was doing it subconsciously.
	I just realized...
	This is your practice time.
	Nobody knows who the hell you are.
	This is your practice time for us both to be present in the same room.
	Not for one of us to have to strangle the other to get a word in edgewise.
	We can both be here in the same room.
	What emotions are you suppressing, my friend?
	I guess crying isn't...
	I don't know.
	And what's wrong with crying?
	Crying shows that you care.
	Nothing's wrong with crying.
	Yeah, sunburn says stay out of the sun.
	And emotional pain says stay away from abusers.
	It is your...
	You know, tortoise needs its shell and we need our pain.
	It's...
	It's anger.
	It's anger.
	I feel anger.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	Self-defense is anger.
	Anger is life in the presence of attack, but go on.
	I want to use the word depression, but I don't feel it describes exactly.
	yeah Is it like a whirlwind in your brain?
	So much going on, it's hard to grab anything?
	Yes.
	Well, come on.
	Just take off the filter.
	Give me your thoughts and feelings.
	It doesn't matter what they are.
	It just matters that they are.
	I feel my head feels like a thousand degrees.
	I want to pull my hair out.
	I want to punch a wall.
	I want to run a mile.
	Yeah.
	My heart's beating very fast.
	Right.
	Toes are crinkling.
	This is the awakening of outrage that is the antidote to evil, right?
	Right.
	You need this, in my humble opinion.
	I agree with your humble opinion.
	And if your girlfriend's dad was in the room right now and was helpless, was tied down Was helpless to attack and you knew there would never be any repercussions.
	What would you say to him about what he had done to the love of your life?
	You ruined her childhood.
	You took it away from her.
	You took away her innocence and her...
	You abused her, you fucking son of a bitch.
	What am I supposed to do?
	So, What am I supposed to do?
	Well, you're supposed to remember that the young have their strength, their vigor, and their outrage, and the old just have their weakness and manipulation.
	And the clear anger of the violated youth is the great antidote To the reproduction of the sins of the elders.
	The reason why I asked for practical advice before was because I wanted to know what I can do right now in the moment from now to the next year.
	It's not that I didn't want to talk about emotion.
	I just needed a solution.
	But the emotion is the solution because by getting in touch with your emotions you will be preparing for the next year.
	and the time that comes afterwards.
	Right.
	Right.
	If you surf the rapids in a tiny boat, you need all of your wits about you and you need your reflexes to be very close to the surface, right?
	You can't be contemplative when you're surfing the rapids, right?
	You need to be nimble and agile, very responsive, right?
	The practical steps will come from the emotional connection.
	To reject a bloodied history is one of the hardest and most necessary things to do to save the world, right?
	And if it were easy...
	It would have been done by now.
	It's not easy.
	But you need to get in touch with your outrage and your anger because that will be your defense against exploitation.
	Your parents and her parents will try all the usual tricks of the abusers, right?
	They will be aggressive.
	They will be manipulative.
	They will call you crazy.
	They will round up institutions against you.
	They will try and get you attacked by everyone around you.
	They will try as much as possible to pour and short-circuit your rational mind with their intense insanity and evil, right?
	Yeah.
	That's kind of to go back all the way to the beginning when you asked, what is your plans in life?
	And I said that once her and I are able to be financially independent, we're going to confront our families and say, like, this is the situation.
	We love each other and here's why.
	And accept it or don't accept it.
	And then if you don't, we're not going to involve you in our lives.
	And if you're going to make our lives hell...
	What could the families possibly say that would keep them in your life?
	We had...
	We had...
	Yeah, good point.
	No, seriously.
	What?
	I have no problem with, you know, talk to your family and this and that and the other, right?
	Right.
	But there's a couple of standards that I recommend.
	First of all, of course, talk to a therapist, be in therapy when you do this, and listen to your therapist.
	But first of all, if there's physical danger, I don't recommend it.
	And this is my understanding.
	You do not confront abusers.
	You just try and get away.
	You don't tell them where you're going, which is why I didn't say, where do you want to settle?
	I told you not to answer that question.
	You don't tell them where you're going, you don't leave any forwarding address, you change your name if you have to, you do whatever it takes to get away from physically dangerous people.
	This is what they say to women who are being abused by their husbands, like, do not confront whatever you do, do not confront.
	Yeah, her immediate family, her mother and father and her uncle, they won't be in our lives regardless of what they say.
	I don't even think we're gonna say we love each other or goodbye.
	I mean, probably not even that much.
	But, um, for other people in our lives, like, we have a couple, you know, we have some cousins that are close to our direct family, but they've never really harmed us, and we're going to tell them.
	And, like, no, my father, my mother, my grandparents, her grandparents, her, I mean, her parents, excuse me.
	No, they're not going to be in our lives.
	Yeah, so, I mean, I would really recommend that, um, If you want to really love in a sustainable way, then you need to have enough comfort level with your emotion and you have to break and free from the narcissistic, abusive erasure of other that was the emotional template it sounds like you both got from your families so that you can have strong feelings and your girlfriend can have strong feelings and you can both be present in the room.
	In other words, strong feelings aren't like tigers bursting through the wall where everything goes out the window except self-defense, right?
	Right.
	And learning how to practice that, how to be with each other's strong emotions, I think is really important.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Thank you so much, Steph, for everything you do and for this call especially.
	Oh, listen, I appreciate that gratitude, but let me tell you something, brother.
	Thank you so much for what you and your girlfriend are doing.
	Thank you so much.
	Because my daughter is going to have to live in the world that you guys are making.
	And you guys are a class act to follow for my daughter to go after.
	And I really, really appreciate, as a father, as a human being, as a moral philosopher, I hugely appreciate the heroic healing that you guys are taking on.
	And I thank you from the very bottom of my heart for what you are committed to overcoming and reversing.
	That is courage.
	Yes, it is.
	Thank you for the smile on my face.
	It's a good way to end it.
	All right.
	Well, thanks, man.
	Mike, if we'd have somebody who's not got...
	Two monstrous series of questions.
	That would be great.
	I can do one more.
	And thanks, of course, to all the callers so far.
	Alright, well next up is Angelo, and Angelo wrote in and says, I always get stuck in the friend zone.
	I'm the sort to put myself out there in different ways.
	I offer to be there, I cook elaborate meals, and when I'm not sure, and when I am sure that I would like to try a relationship, I come forward and say, I would like to date you.
	This has resulted in me time and time again being the good guy with, quote unquote, a lot to offer, but no interest from a romantic standpoint.
	How do I avoid the friend zone?
	Great question.
	All right.
	Angelo, do you mind if we just start with a few questions?
	No, I do not mind.
	Okay.
	Physical attractiveness, one to ten, for you?
	I'm typically rated as a nine.
	Dude!
	This is like the parade of Chippendale's Hardys on the show today.
	No offense to the first guy, I just don't think I asked him.
	All right.
	And...
	What do you do for a living or are you in school?
	I graduated with a bachelor's in mathematics and I'm currently working as a statistical analyst.
	So you're doing AIT, right?
	Sorry?
	You're doing AIT financially, right?
	Oh, yes.
	Yes, I am financially successful and stable.
	All right.
	And are you mid-twenties kind of thing?
	Late twenties.
	Late twenties.
	And experience in relationships?
	I've had a couple of relationships.
	Most of them have been longer term since I consider myself to be fairly picky and who I consider for a mate.
	Can you be more specific?
	What information would be valuable?
	No, it's all right.
	I mean, you're not like sleeping around too much, but you've got some, it's not like you've never dated or anything, right?
	So you've got some experience, but you're not like man whore, right?
	Correct.
	All right.
	I think I'm getting a fairly clear picture.
	And I would assume, and tell me if I'm incorrect, you're like a stable, good-natured, happy-to-provide gentleman, happy to listen, respectful towards women, conscientious, open doors for them, pay for dates, that kind of guy?
	I wouldn't say that's 100% accurate.
	Oh, good, good.
	Well, I wasn't expecting to be, so tell me where I'm off.
	So in terms of the open doors for women, I open doors for everyone.
	So it's not specific to women.
	I will pay for either the first date or the first drink as an initial investment.
	And when I'm expected to continue that indefinitely, I say that I'm not interested in continuing.
	But that's only happened a few times.
	All right.
	Those are the two that stuck out to me.
	And your parents' marriage, what was that like, or relationship?
	My parents are still together.
	My mother stayed at home to raise both me and my brothers, or sorry, me and my brothers, not both.
	And overall, they have a pretty good working relationship.
	Right.
	So, functional.
	I don't mean to say, like, not in love or anything, I'm sure they are, but, you know, pretty healthy and functional family, right?
	Yeah, I agree.
	And how good looking is your mom?
	Or was your mom?
	I would probably rate her between a seven or an eight.
	And your dad?
	He's probably a nine on the ground set.
	I'm almost a physical replica of him.
	Right, right.
	Okay, got it.
	All right.
	And what do you...
	On what grounds do you choose the women who end up friendzoning you?
	Men, but I typically, in terms of physical attractive scale...
	Wait, sorry, what?
	What?
	Wait.
	I'm a homosexual.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry if I... I hate to be a majority assumption, but okay, so you're gay.
	And so it's the men that you're talking about.
	So the men that you get friend-zoned by, what standards are you choosing them based on?
	I typically look for, in terms of physical attractiveness on the 1 to 10 scale between a 5 and a 7, I look for someone with some degree of either intelligence or education, somebody who is capable of showing empathy, expressing coherent thoughts, Yeah, that's generally it.
	Moderately attractive, somewhat emotionally stable, and a good person for a vague descriptor.
	Right.
	Now, I mean, you don't need me to tell you that In the gay community, long-term, stable, marital-style relationships are not exactly number one on a lot of gay guys' lists, right?
	Yeah, that's correct.
	But I generally have no interest in those things anyway.
	They may have a nice body, but it ends there.
	What ends there?
	In terms of my interest in them.
	Like, the expression is spank bank.
	Oh, you mean so you'll look at them and then, like, masturbate about them later, right?
	And pretend they actually have some sort of semblance of a personality or intelligence.
	Right, right.
	I will insert a brain into your head before I will insert my imaginary penis into your butt, right?
	Something like that.
	Okay.
	That's pretty accurate, aye.
	Yeah, no, brain porn is pretty essential.
	I'd like to pretend you're a different personality.
	I'd like to pretend a different soul is nestled beneath those shimmering abs before I go any further with my abuse of your memory.
	But okay.
	All right.
	And where do you meet gay men who are interested in long-term relationships?
	Typically, through friends, I try to avoid the more sexual hotspots because they are just that.
	They're effectively meat markets, the sexual meat.
	Some gay guys I lived with told me that they had sex, met, and went on a date.
	I'm like, wow.
	A guy they had over was like, oh yeah, a guy called me up.
	It was the wrong number.
	It turned out he was gay and we had sex.
	And I was like, wow.
	You know, I don't think that much would pull me towards the gay thing, just because I really like women.
	But I think if people had told me when I was 13 or 14 that, you know, if you're gay, a wrong number can lead to sex.
	You know, that what seems improbable in hetero porn is like a daily occurrence in the gay world.
	I think I would have tried to will myself over in that direction a little bit more, you know.
	Made have found a guy with man boobs and a wig.
	I don't know.
	But...
	And so, is it you sort of are friends with these guys and then they end up friendzoning you when you try to move it to romance?
	Generally speaking, yes.
	Because I look for very specific traits, I don't tend to feel attraction immediately.
	So it's after I get to know them, know a little bit about their history, their interests, that I actually start to feel significant attraction besides the typical I would have sexual intercourse with your body.
	And your brain may not necessarily need to be there at the time.
	Yeah, you are good wraparound meat haunches.
	Effectively what I do is I'm interested in discussing affection in terms of a market value perspective.
	I present to my potential boyfriend what I would offer in a relationship.
	I offer emotional stability.
	I offer emotional support.
	I'm also I'm a very good cook, so I host dinner parties, and when I do that I'll make sure they're invited.
	Once I start to get a feel that there may be a potential relationship, I say, hi, I would like to date you.
	And that's where the friendzoning comes in.
	And so I stop providing the special attention, the special affection.
	And why do you watch the cover story for your friendzoning?
	What do they say?
	I don't want to ruin the friendship.
	Oh god, I hate that one.
	But yes.
	We're such good friends.
	Why would we want to ruin our intimacy with more intimacy?
	This is not a Chinese meal.
	It's not like if you eat two, you get sick.
	More intimacy is good.
	Not bad, but anyway.
	Well, to extend that, if you apply that logic anywhere else, the example I had written down was if you go to a car dealer and you find a very cost-efficient car that's good on gas mileage, has a lot of amenities built in, and you say, I'm sorry, but this...
	This vehicle is too good for how much I would pay.
	I will get too much out of it.
	I'm going to go take this more physically appealing shitbox that will break down and possibly kill me in a fiery explosion.
	The logic doesn't seem to translate to me, and I don't understand.
	I think I understand why you get friend-zoned, because if you imply that people will die in a fiery explosion if they don't have sex with you, that might be a little alarming.
	No, I'm just kidding.
	I guess the most baffling one about my recent is just how, from my perspective, we have a lot of similar interests.
	Both of us compose music, both of us major in mathematics in university, both of us are computer programmers and mathematical We play the same video games.
	We have almost the same developmental disorder.
	I'm high-functioning autistic.
	He has Asperger's.
	We both have difficulty socializing and talking to people when we don't know them.
	I didn't understand a word you were saying at the start of this call.
	I had to listen for 40 minutes before I could understand the sentences that you were saying.
	And I have a lot of social anxieties and problems because of it.
	I'm sorry to interrupt, but why do you think...
	You sort of talked about your family upbringing as functional and healthy and all that.
	Do you think that your developmental, as you call them, disorders are genetic?
	Or do you think that there was anything in your environment, whether familial or social or religious or cultural or scholastic, that may have contributed to this?
	As far as I know, and I haven't actually researched it, autism is something with which you're born.
	That's all I know.
	So my parents actually, like my parents don't know, I actually had myself tested a couple years ago just out of my own curiosity because a lot of people said, hey, you must be autistic.
	And so I did some research and said I exhibit a fair number of these signs.
	I've done some of the phony online tests and it had high scores, so I figured I should See if there was any validity in their comments and it turns out it was true.
	He, however, he was born and I think like maybe at five they discovered he had Asperger's.
	So your parents didn't know that there was anything unusual about you?
	Oh, they did.
	My parents aren't the most educated people on the planet, which is a way of saying they don't know a lot.
	So they knew something was wrong, but they never knew how to either qualify it or they didn't understand that maybe I needed help.
	Right.
	And do you know if your mom was ever on SSRIs?
	No, she never was, to the best of my knowledge.
	Okay, okay.
	Correct.
	Right.
	Do you view autism as a negative in your life?
	I view it as a component of my life.
	I think I was approximately 26 and maybe a half to use non-exact numbers.
	That's how many years of life I had when I found out.
	And I view it as a component of my life and it helps me understand why I have difficulties talking to people, why when I meet someone new I will sit and listen for it.
	I got it down to half an hour before I can understand how I can talk to them and have them respond to me without always looking at me like I'm saying things that are illogical and irrational.
	Now, do you know the massive increase In autism over the last 10 or 20 years or at least in diagnosis of autism?
	Yes, and I have researched that as well a little bit.
	And I do know that there is a correlation between how much people can make money off of pumping drugs into small developing children by claiming they have some sort of disorder with a magic pill that will cure them arbitrarily and that not actually does.
	Given that I was diagnosed at a late age, not the 26 and a half approximately years of life, it's late in life, but I have sufficient reason to suspect that I legitimately am autistic and not just an attempt for people to push pills because also I don't take any pills.
	Yeah, I mean, I was just looking it up.
	In the 1970s and 80s, about one out of every 2,000 children was considered to have autism.
	Now it's like one in 110.
	And what's that?
	That's a crazy increase, right?
	That's 2,000 percent?
	You're the mathematicians, though.
	I'm a theoretical mathematician.
	I don't know what a number looks like.
	That's not literal.
	Right, okay.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	So, I do understand that, yes, being incredibly uncomfortable talking to people I don't know, and not knowing how to talk to people does inhibit my ability to form relationships,
	but that's also why I tend to Well, wait before I start trying to form relationships, after I figure out how to have a conversation with somebody that's coherent and cogent and intelligible and they actually seem engaged in.
	I think I lost where my train of thought is going.
	Yeah, I just wanted to point out, if you hadn't told me, I wouldn't have ever guessed.
	I mean, you're doing a fantastic job in the conversation.
	No, you know, no, no, nothing obvious to me.
	Of course, what do I know?
	I'm no diagnostician, but if you hadn't told me, I would never have guessed, right?
	If I was the first caller, I wouldn't have understood a word you said.
	You don't know about that for sure.
	I'm a pretty good communicator.
	But anyway, okay, so look, there's a couple of possibilities about why you're being friend-zoned.
	You just may not be crazy enough to be sexy to people.
	I'm eccentric, which is a polite way of saying crazy.
	No, but eccentric isn't sexy.
	Like, vain, narcissistic, and needy, and haughty, these are generally associated with sexy, right?
	Not from my perspective, but I guess...
	No, no, no, I understand.
	Not from your perspective.
	But, I mean, I'm just sort of...
	I don't obviously flip open a lot of gay magazines, but when I sort of think of...
	Yeah, I've got these Cosmopolitan and Seventeen magazines I'm going to do a show on, and...
	When you flip open the magazine, there's very few pictures of women smiling in a friendly manner, you know, when they're selling makeup and clothing and shit like that.
	The women look, like, scared or angry or startled or haughty or, like, there's expressions which are considered to be sexy.
	Now, Marilyn Monroe was one of the few women who could pull off a sexy smile, but for the most part, sexy equals...
	Crazy.
	Not friendly, not helpful, not right.
	And you just may not be emotionally unstable and hysterical and needy enough to be considered sexy by a lot of people.
	Does that make sense?
	The sentence makes sense, but I guess Again, from my perspective, but I have to pretend that there's another person's perspective.
	Okay, let me put it to you this way.
	And I'm sorry to put this in hetero terms, but those are my main references, right?
	So, for men, you might date the hooker, but you marry the librarian.
	Like, you might have sex with the hooker, you might date the head cheerleader, but you marry the librarian.
	Okay, yeah, the archetypes, got it.
	Okay, so it makes sense, right?
	So, you know, Ricky Martin would be a great guy to have a fling with.
	But I don't know that he'd be like a really stable long-term partner kind of thing.
	Neil Patrick Harris, on the other hand, would probably be a great partner, right?
	And I think he's got a kid.
	I think Ricky Markkinen has a kid too, but...
	But you may not...
	Like, a lot of people get together in a sexual manner for reasons that have nothing to do with being a good long-term partner.
	In fact, they're quite the opposite of being a good long-term partner, right?
	Yeah.
	A one-night stand?
	Yeah, or even short-term sexual flings or even long-term sexual flings that don't lead to anything sort of long-term.
	To have a long-term relationship, you need to have some stability, you need to have some self-knowledge, you need to have some emotional maturity, you need to be able to know how to negotiate and all that kind of stuff, right?
	To collide and spill fluids, you know, it's either a car crash or, you know, sex in a dark room.
	It's, you know, what do you need?
	You need compatible body parts, you know, of a gay or straight manner.
	And so it could be that by approaching relationships from a rational standpoint, right?
	So when I asked you, what do you look for?
	You said, well, you know, attractiveness is like a 5 or a 7.
	That's, you know, I think that's kind of sensible in a way.
	Because, you know, the more attractive, generally, the more crazy.
	And you said, you know, I want people who are emotionally stable, who are mature, and this kind of stuff.
	So you are looking at trying to build a relationship.
	Using rational standards, right?
	You know, you say, how are you going to build this house?
	You say, well, I have some blueprints.
	I'm going to consult some experts.
	I'm going to, you know, construct it of bricks and wood, right?
	As opposed to, like, I'm going to load up a cannon full of Chef Boyardee spaghetti meatballs and fire them a tree and call it a house, right?
	Which is how most people try to build their relationships.
	So you're approaching it from a very rational standpoint, which I can certainly appreciate and understand.
	I think makes good sense.
	But that is not how most people build their relationships.
	And I think being friend-zoned by people is a great way of receiving positive feedback about your mental health.
	Does that make sense?
	Could you elaborate, please?
	Well, so if you were the kind of guy that people are like, yeah, let's have a relationship, right?
	Let's have sex, right?
	It would be because you weren't approaching things from a rational standpoint, right?
	So I've always tried to be a real gentleman with women, and some women find that not sexually exciting because they want like the David Beckham, steely-eyed, tattooed, lunatic, bad boy biker dude, in which case they're like, they'll friend zone me because they don't want to be treated with respect.
	They want to be treated like shit, right?
	They want to have the alpha male put down that makes their loins get all tingly.
	They want to be treated like shit.
	And so they'll friend zone me, which is a great compliment, right?
	Because if women who want to be treated like shit were sexually excited by me, that would not be the greatest compliment.
	Does that make any sense?
	Yes.
	So how to get out of the friend zone Well, first of all, if your method of meeting guys continually results in the same outcome, then you have to change your method of meeting guys, right?
	Yes.
	If what you're doing isn't working, you need to do something different, right?
	Yeah, and I have tried a few things, but I'm...
	I can't talk to people I don't already know.
	And that tends to be a huge problem.
	We're doing that now, right?
	I've listened to you a lot.
	I understand your speech patterns a little bit.
	Oh, okay.
	You use a lot of very abstract concepts and I get lost a lot, but...
	I just don't know how to respond to people and it's problematic obviously and also I have a fair amount of social anxiety.
	I used to get physically assaulted in school because I was the big socially awkward guy and the only way they could take me down was by hitting me from behind.
	And so I'm These are people who call themselves my friends, and then they behaved in a manner that defied the definition of friends, which confused me.
	And then I just don't know who's going to attack me when I go outside.
	Right.
	Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure that that's social anxiety.
	I don't have tiger anxiety if I fall into a tiger pit, right?
	I have, like, I don't want to get fucking eaten anxiety, right?
	I mean, you reframe stuff like you have some internal problem.
	Like, you have PTSD for being assaulted.
	I don't know that I'd call that social anxiety.
	Like, a guy coming back from Iraq doesn't have war anxiety, right?
	Or he doesn't have, like, bullet anxiety, right?
	Yes, that makes sense.
	Right, so if you were regularly assaulted, for which I'm incredibly sorry, I mean, if you were regularly assaulted in school, and you were, I have no reason to disbelieve you, Then you don't have social anxiety.
	You have, like, asshole proximity disorder, which means, you know, probably a little bit more ambivalent for gay men than it would be for straight men.
	But you have asshole proximity disorder, which is that you are surrounded by incredible assholes and possibly homophobes who hit you from behind, which puts you in a constant state of fight or flight.
	That's not you having social anxiety disorder, right?
	That makes sense.
	The only correction I would make is for some reason most people do not assume that my sexual orientation is of the homosexual variety.
	And why do you think that is?
	Because you don't sound like Rip Torn or some character out of Rocky Horror Picture Show?
	Yeah, to summarize it, my mannerisms and behavior and speech patterns are more aligned with the average heterosexual male than they are with the average homosexual male.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that makes sense.
	But, I mean, your gay friends wouldn't, right?
	Potential gay lovers, they wouldn't have that issue, right?
	Of having aligned speech patterns with a heterosexual over homosexual?
	No, they know you're gay, right?
	Oh, I would assume as much.
	At least, I suppose, if not, and then when I, I guess when I ask them out, that would probably be sufficient evidence to assume that.
	All right.
	All right.
	So, I mean, that makes it a little bit tougher, right?
	I mean, the one of the, I mean, I can only imagine, right?
	I mean, atheist is the new gay, but at least you can hide being an atheist.
	But it's tough.
	I mean, for gay men, and gay women, I assume, but for gay men in particular, it's really tough because you want other gay men to know that you're gay, but you don't want homophobic straight men to know that you're gay, right?
	So that's, it's quite complicated.
	It's quite a balance to strike, right?
	So that people don't assume that you're straight and therefore gay guys won't approach you.
	But at the same time, you don't want to inflame homophobes who might beat you up for being gay.
	Anyway, it's just a really, it's a tough balance and it's something I have a huge amount of sympathy for.
	Now, the guys that you get friend-zoned by, you're obviously friend-zoned because they are gay but are not wanting a relationship with the sexual relationship, romantic relationship, right?
	Correct.
	Right.
	Now, do they say, I'm sorry, particularly with you?
	Yes.
	And do you ask them what they're looking for in a relationship?
	Sometimes it comes up in previous conversations.
	The gentleman with Asperger's, he described my body before we hung out in person.
	We met with mutual friends playing video games online.
	He mentioned intelligence as, in his words, sexy, and then he described me as being incredibly intelligent.
	He even said I am the only gay man with whom he's had a conversation and hasn't just gotten bored with, and we've been talking for over a year now.
	So he said intelligence was sexy and you were very intelligent and he wasn't bored with you, right?
	Correct.
	So if intelligence was sexy and he found you very intelligent, ergo, right, this is not logic 305, ergo, he would find you very sexy, right?
	I don't understand the discrepancy, though, because what people say isn't aligned with their actions, and I don't know how to gauge that, or if that's the correct term.
	Let me give you a hint.
	I will give you a hint.
	I will give you a hint.
	Most people, when they describe themselves and their preferences...
	Are completely lying.
	I would give you that little tip from sort of my experience.
	Most people, when they're describing themselves and what they're looking for, are completely lying.
	How am I supposed to...
	Which is why...
	How are you supposed to know that?
	Well, they're breathing and they're moving their lips.
	That's one of the hints, right?
	Now, of course, you want to find someone who's not lying, right?
	Ideally, yes.
	Of course, yeah, of course.
	You don't want to be with a liar.
	That's no fun, right?
	Well, when you asked, you said you asked your potential boyfriends about their histories, right?
	Yeah, in conversation...
	Like their dating histories?
	I tend to avoid that conversation when I start showing interest, sexual and romantic interest in them, but sometimes it does come up.
	Why do you avoid that conversation?
	Because I don't understand it, but apparently there's a social rule that you're not supposed to talk about previous romantic engagements.
	I don't know.
	People tell me you're not supposed to do it.
	You're supposed to talk about you're not supposed to talk about previous romantic engagements with cab drivers and stewardesses and so on.
	But with people you may date, then I think it's pretty important, right?
	Because you need to know, you know, like when I was younger and I would say to a woman, what kind of relationship are you like?
	What are you looking for?
	And they're like, I'm looking for excitement and danger.
	You'd be like, well, you better look somewhere else.
	Because that just means they just want some tattooed junkie who's never going to call, right?
	I want to pick up a man from the gutter and carry him to hospital because that's hot.
	So, if you get a sense, the best predictor of people's future behavior is their past behavior.
	And if you want to know whether you're compatible with someone, then you ask them about their previous relationships, right?
	And most likely, if you don't fit into the pattern of their previous relationships, it's less likely that you're going to have a future relationship, right?
	Unless something is hugely changed, right?
	Yeah, like my last three cars have been convertibles, right?
	Well, what's my next car going to be?
	Well, it's going to be a convertible unless I just, you know, had four kids or something, right?
	So you can ask about prior...
	I'm sorry, go ahead.
	Assuming no change point exists.
	At some point, if you keep purchasing convertibles and recognize that it's not functional in terms of your needs, you can consciously make the decision to change your purchasing pattern.
	Where in this case, purchasing pattern is a parallel to dating patterns.
	Right.
	So, if somebody says, my last three cars were convertibles and they all exploded and I loved it, right?
	But then the next is going to be a convertible that explodes.
	But if they say, well, my last three cars were convertibles that exploded, the last one I barely survived and I've really tried to figure out why I like exploding convertibles and I've really worked to change my preferences and I've gone to therapy and why am I so self-destructive and Why am I chasing after the ghost of Paul Walker or whatever?
	And so there can be change points.
	So somebody can say, well, I was in two abusive relationships, and then I went to therapy, and I figured out all this stuff about my history, and I learned all this stuff about myself, and now I know how to avoid that, and my last relationship was healthy, but the guy, whatever, died.
	So if you listen to people and they talk about their past relationships, you can get a sense of where you're going to fit into their future relationships But, and if those past relationships were bad and they don't know it, then the future relationships will also be bad.
	But if they do know it and they've worked to change it, then there can be room for you, right?
	Like, let me tell you something.
	Oh, this is important.
	I think this is the last piece of good advice because me, you know, telling autistic gay guys how to get guys is really at the edge of my expertise, to say the least, right?
	But...
	Let me tell you this.
	Somebody who's worth dating, like let's say you're a great guy to date.
	I have no doubt about that.
	So you're a great guy to date.
	So somebody who's worth dating may say to you, I am...
	I know you're a great guy to date, but my penis hasn't caught up with my emotional maturity, right?
	I know you're a great guy to date.
	I'm not hugely sexually turned on to you because I have a habit of dating jerks.
	You are not a jerk.
	You're a great guy.
	So I hope that you will allow me to let my body fall in love with you the way my heart is falling in love with you.
	Give my body some time to catch up to my values.
	Because my body is chasing all of these idiots because of my history and I'm working on it.
	Let me wait.
	Like, hopefully you'll give me some chance to take it a little bit slow.
	You know, let's start kissing.
	Let's start hugging.
	Let's start whatever, right?
	Let's start rubbing stubble, right?
	And give my body a chance to catch up with what my heart knows is good about you.
	It's no insult to you.
	Physically, you're very attractive.
	But I just have been drawn physically for results of a bad history with whatever, right?
	I'm drawn to jerks physically.
	You are a great guy.
	You are what I'm looking for in a guy.
	You are what men should be looking for in a guy.
	I hope that you can give me a little bit of time because I know that you're the right guy for me to just wait for my body and my retarded sexuality to catch up.
	With how great a guy you are.
	That, to me, even if somebody was like, I have this impulse to friend zone you, but you're too high quality a guy to friend zone, so I'm not going to do that, because that would be a destructive thing to do.
	Does that make any sense?
	Yes.
	Essentially, recognize that your sexual impulses are counterproductive to what...
	We'll hopefully be a long-term and emotionally healthy relationship.
	Yeah, I mean for many years my dick was trying to drag me off a cliff.
	You know, like I had to fucking get cleats and dig my heels in.
	Like my dick was trying to drag me off a cliff towards this giant vagina of endless falling.
	And I really had to say, Dick, stop trying to get us killed.
	Stop trying to get us broke.
	Stop trying to get us into family court.
	Stop it, stop it, stop it, right?
	And I had to work hard through therapy and all that to change what was exciting to me.
	And that was a lot of work.
	And...
	That took some transition time.
	And a guy who's got self-knowledge, and is a good guy, is either going to be attracted to you initially, which is great, or he's going to say, well, intellectually and emotionally, I know you're a great guy.
	My dick is stupid.
	Right?
	And this is basically every man's autobiography is...
	My dick is stupid.
	I'm trying to teach it something smarter, right?
	Because my dick was raised by women to be in the service of women, which means not to have a manly integrity and look for the long-term self-interest view for masculinity.
	But anyway, it's a topic for another time.
	But a guy who's got real quality will recognize your qualities.
	And even if he's not sexually attracted to you initially, he will explain that to you and ask politely for your patience.
	You stop talking.
	Do I need to respond?
	No.
	That's just my last thought, if that helps.
	Okay.
	Um, I, for some reason, I remember you talking, uh, in a previous podcast about you raising, uh, your, if you raise your daughter well, she'll have no interest in the, uh, emotionally unhealthy, uh, males that will enter her life.
	And I look at my past behavior, the first male that showed any interest in me, I'm really certain, is histrionic.
	And I had no interest whatsoever in being emotionally abused.
	And I guess that would be a nice trait, although I don't understand the relevance to the topic.
	It just came to my mind, so I'm saying it.
	No, I think it's perfect relevance to the topic.
	Now, my daughter, when she gets older, she's a biological creature and her womb is going to want an alpha sperm as well, right?
	So when my daughter gets older, there's going to be hot guys around, right?
	And she's going to have a physical reaction to them, as we all do, right?
	Beauty is power.
	But, you know, my goal is for her to have the self-knowledge to make sure that she doesn't do anything that is self-destructive, right?
	Yes.
	So, no, it makes perfect sense to me.
	You say, hey, this person's attractive, but, you know, they're like a heart shredder on frappe setting, right?
	So, let's not get involved, right?
	Penis, back off!
	Come back!
	Right?
	And so, I think it's perfectly relevant to the topic, yeah?
	You may recognize that person's attractive, but you're going to follow through because it's dangerous, right?
	Correct.
	So, and the other thing too is that, you know, I mean, FDR is a pretty good place to meet Certainly a bunch of marriages have come out of FDR and some kids and certainly some great parenting and some better marriages.
	So, you know, if there are meetups for FDR meetups or if there are people on the message board that you find interesting, you've had a couple of date offers from the chat room, which I think is great.
	So it may be, you know, you already have people who are Who understand your values and agree with, I think, healthy philosophical universal values may not be a bad place to start.
	That's interesting advice.
	Okay.
	I don't know what the appropriate response is to this.
	Well, I think the appropriate response is, hey, hopefully it was useful.
	Look, it's never easy to end a conversation like this because there's so much that can always be talked about.
	But I guess the question would be if there are gay FDRs I reserve the right to think about that before
	providing a response.
	Okay, great.
	So if you're interested in chatting with this fine young man further, you can send messages to us.
	We may or may not forward them, depending on his particular preferences, but send them in, and then we won't forward them to you if you don't want that, and if you do, then we will.
	But again, they won't have any contact information for you, so they won't know who you are.
	That's one possible way we could move forward.
	But, you know, I really appreciate the call.
	I think you just did a fantastic job.
	I mean, again, I get that you're a little analytical.
	Whether that is autism or not would never have occurred to me.
	I just would have assumed that you are, in fact, into numbers.
	But, no, great job.
	Was it helpful for you?
	Yes.
	And to elaborate, I mentioned autism despite it apparently being an awkward subject because it helps people to understand that I need a little bit of extra understanding in conversations.
	And honestly, thank you for not getting mad at me when I said I don't know how to respond to things because people get mad at me and I don't understand why because I'm just trying to figure out how to talk to people.
	I think you're doing a fantastic job.
	You do far better than most people I talk to in my non-FDR life and better than half the callers who ever call in here.
	So I would certainly not view that as an in.
	And I will never get angry at somebody for being honest with me.
	I mean, I can't say honesty is the first and most necessary virtue and then get upset with people for being honest.
	So if you don't know how to respond, I think that's fantastic.
	You gave me an honest statement.
	That's never going to be upsetting to me, and I appreciate you being that open.
	So thank you very much.
	So thank you, everybody.
	Have yourselves a wonderful, wonderful evening.
	url.com forward slash like Zorro forward slash donate and if you can share videos and podcasts FDR podcasts is the spanking brand spanking new interface for the shows if you could help share and of course if you haven't subscribed please subscribe you can go of course to youtube.com slash freedom radio to subscribe thanks everyone I'm
	I do, people are asking, I do watch the chat during the show and I really do enjoy getting feedback and all of that.
	Hugely helpful.
	And I guess we will be talking to everyone on the Wednesday night next.
	So have a great week everyone.

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