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May 9, 2014 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

03:43:32

2691 Asshole Proximity Disorder - Wednesday Call In Show May 7th, 2014

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	Hi everybody, Stefan Molyneux from Freedom Aid Radio.
	Hope you're doing well.
	It's time for our Wednesday evening Mariana Trench of the Soul deep dive into basic and elemental questions of practical and applied philosophy.
	Not the kind of philosophy that wonders whether we are the dream of the jellyfish.
	That wonders whether the sea monkeys you could order from the back of your comic book Destroy and rebuild the city every night without anyone noticing.
	These are the kind of questions that you can actually ask after you're old enough to pay your own rent.
	So, Mike, thanks so much for setting it up.
	We've got, I guess, one or two speaking announcements to remind people of it.
	Yeah, International Conference on Men's Issues, June 26th through 28th in Detroit, Michigan.
	You can get tickets at avoiceformen.com, avoiceformen.com.
	Dr.
	Warren Farrell is going to be there.
	Go Write Swat.
	Karen Strawn is going to be there.
	Paul Elam is going to be there.
	Lots of interesting people are going to be there.
	And hopefully you will be there as well.
	Steph is going to be speaking.
	I'm going to be there.
	We're going to be doing some cool stuff in conjunction with the event.
	So if you're a listener and you can make your way to Detroit, please do.
	It would be great to see you there.
	Yeah, we'll probably try and have a beat up and stuff too, right?
	Yeah, we'll set something up.
	And I don't have the date in front of me, but Steph's also going to be speaking at a domestic violence conference in early June in downtown Toronto.
	And that information will be on the speeches page and announced on social media in just a...
	Just a little bit.
	Figuring out what exact days he can attend.
	But he will be there giving a speech.
	And Aaron Pizzi is there.
	Going to be there for the event.
	And I think Paul is actually coming in too.
	Paul Elam.
	So it should be a good time.
	And I hope to see people in downtown Toronto early June.
	Yeah, I think Aaron Pizzi is going to be breaking out her rap act.
	She's going to be Ellen Pizzi von Schisnet.
	I think if I've got that correct.
	So that really will be something to see.
	So, other than that, yeah.
	Thanks for your support.
	FDRURL.com forward slash donate.
	50 cents a show.
	Come on.
	It's hour after hour of deep dive philosophy to change your life.
	So you can come and subscribe or donate.
	We hugely appreciate that.
	We also take Bitcoin.
	And Mike, I think, is fairly amenable to black market mailed iced kidneys.
	So, Mike, who do we have up first?
	The going rate on blackmailed kidneys has dropped lately, so that's unfortunate.
	But still, we accept that.
	Well, we are flooding the market, so.
	Excuse me.
	Josh wrote in and said, if you feel trapped in a comfort zone and want to break the routine of antisocial behavior, which is a higher priority?
	Direct confrontation of the root cause or aiming for a slow and steady recovery?
	Can you hear me?
	Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
	Sorry, normally we find the questions help, but in this case it hasn't really done that, so can you tell me a bit?
	I can explain the situation a little bit better.
	Over time, I've developed social anxiety, and I've noticed that my routines...
	Wait, wait, wait, wait.
	The problem is always at the beginning of the narrative, right?
	You developed social anxiety?
	What does that mean?
	Um...
	Over time, I kind of just...
	I developed pubic hair when I was 12 because that's what biology says to do.
	And, you know, my pubic hair basically started sucking the hair out from my scalp inwards through my spine.
	But that's something that develops spontaneously through, you know, nature, right?
	Through just growing up.
	So you have a theory as to the genesis of your social anxiety in that it was...
	It developed within you or like it was not environmental?
	That's what I want to understand first.
	I guess I would have to rephrase that to say that the intensity of my social anxiety grew over time.
	Okay, you just repeated exactly the same thing.
	The difference between developed and grew is unimportant, okay?
	Yeah, but the intensity is what I was talking about.
	Okay, but developed still doesn't tell me whether it was internal to you or whether it was environmental or some combination of the two.
	Probably a combination of the two.
	That's also a non-answer because that doesn't help.
	Is it exactly 50%?
	Where does your social anxiety come from?
	Leaning more on environmental.
	I think it had a huge part in it.
	I'm sorry, what?
	The upbringing, how I was raised.
	Okay, tell me more.
	A lot of alcoholism from a kid in my family, so huge – give me a second.
	Sorry.
	Okay.
	I had – my childhood was kind of messed up and actually – And I'll go more into detail with that in a moment.
	But I sat with my older sister the other day and we had a conversation while we had a chance to be alone.
	And we kind of started talking about our childhoods.
	And we realized when we meshed up both of our sides of the story that we had blacked out parts of our childhood.
	And yeah, so the whole story with that is that when I was younger...
	It's mostly due to alcoholism and parenting skills, I would say.
	Okay, so both of your parents were alcoholics?
	Yes, sir.
	And how often did they drink and to what degree did they drink?
	Fubar.
	Fucked up and all repair all the time.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Seriously, like riding on a train, sex with a stranger kind of stuff?
	I would say not have the capability to know where any of your children are or what's going on with them at any point in time while they're drinking.
	And how old were you when you knew this or noticed this?
	When I started noticing it, I would have to say about five, five or six.
	Did it happen before then that you know of?
	Yeah, it must have because the situation that the family was in, my father was in the military and I was actually born in Guam.
	We move around a lot and you can see the happiness, I guess you would say, in how we connected we were to each other.
	Just moving around all the time and we don't really talk about anything.
	If there's a confrontation, like something as simple as someone left the toilet seat up and it annoyed someone.
	They wouldn't talk about it or anything like that.
	They would just let that wait until something big happened and then they would bring up a bunch of stuff at one point in time.
	Just avalanche of emotion.
	Sorry, how often did your parents drink to the FUBAR planet?
	Once again, I did realize that I blacked out a lot of my childhood.
	Just from what I remember, I remember we had to go to our babysitter often because they wanted to go drink.
	This was on the weekends.
	We'd stay the night at the babysitter's house or something like that.
	I'm sorry to interrupt you, but in what possible universe could you ascribe any social anxiety to a genetic cause given this environment?
	I think that my mother has it, but she doesn't show emotion, so I can never get anything out of her.
	Oh, so you think that your parents or your mom may have drunk because she had social anxiety?
	I believe, yeah, it was to alleviate the strain of the anxiety.
	It could have been, or I have no idea.
	Well, hang on, hang on, hang on.
	Hang on.
	So did she drink when she had social engagements?
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	All family events.
	But you said she drank a lot, right?
	So did she have that many social engagements?
	It was a small town.
	If you were going to drink, if you were drinking, you'd either have a couple local people come over that were friends of yours, or you'd go to the small town bar in the next town over.
	So these were people that she knew?
	Yeah, my parents together were enabling each other to basically just be raging alcoholics.
	Right, okay, so we don't know for sure if she drank because of social anxiety.
	She may have drunk for other reasons, right?
	It's possible, yeah.
	I could never get anything out of her.
	Okay, so...
	Sorry, there's some questions in the chat room about what is FUBAR. It's fucked up beyond all repair or fucked up beyond all recognition.
	I think those two are fairly valid, right?
	Yeah, either or.
	Those both work.
	Yeah, okay.
	So that's pretty terrifying as a child, right?
	Absolutely.
	I mean, like, seriously, like, my parents are, like, insane, flaming, deranged, mad, broken, sparking, electrode-shooting robots from hell, right?
	I mean, this is, like, really terrifying stuff.
	I mean, the people in charge of you are out of control on a regular basis.
	Absolutely, and I can actually further that point with something that we...
	We actually remember, when we were children, once again, this was all small towns, so if we wanted to go to a park or something, we'd have to go to the next town over, because it was a little bit bigger.
	One day, me and my siblings, I have an older sister and a younger brother, we decided we wanted to go to the park and we were not going to let up about it.
	So I guess my mom had been drinking and I guess she was convinced to take us to the park in the next town over.
	And somebody had seen her kind of swerving when she was going through our town.
	And by the time we got to the park in the next town over, she was pulled over and arrested for a DUI. And how old were you then?
	I had to have been, yeah, around five.
	Five years old.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	So, I mean, she was so obviously drunk that she was pulled over for weaving.
	Absolutely, yes.
	With a goddamn five-year-old in the car.
	And your sibling, your sister.
	Nine-year-old sister and two-year-old brother.
	Oh my god.
	Oh, it gets worse.
	You lived in danger of death.
	Yes.
	As a giant.
	Absolutely.
	I have a bigger one, bigger example than that, actually, of drinking and driving.
	Basically, it was that same small town that I started realizing the issue.
	We had moved from the country to that small town, and we were going back to the country to grab the last of our things.
	And so in the front car was my mother, my sister, our family dog, and my younger brother was in the car seat.
	And for some reason, I cannot remember why, but my dad said, I want to talk to you, so I rode with him.
	Well, we're driving down the road, and we look up, and the SUV that they were driving is flipped over in a ditch.
	And we go up there, and apparently...
	My mother.
	Oh my god.
	Yeah, so it was flipped over, um...
	Apparently some car in the country you're supposed to yield because the corn's tall.
	You can't see if anyone's coming.
	So you're supposed to yield and make sure.
	Apparently that didn't happen.
	And basically my brother and his car seat flew out the window and they couldn't find him right away because he was in the brush.
	It was actually the rainy season so that should have been flooded.
	So technically he's the luckiest kid in the world because he should have drowned.
	Well, technically he's not even close to the luckiest kid in the world.
	You are correct.
	Well, for survival, that was amazing that he was able to survive that without even being conscious of the situation.
	And my dad ended up driving my mother to the hospital because he didn't want the ambulance to take her because that would have been a DUI again.
	Yeah, and I mean obviously he was very concerned that she might get her fucking license taken away, right?
	Because that would be really fucking tragic.
	Absolutely.
	Just out of curiosity, are you feeling any emotions when you're talking about this stuff?
	I'm pissed off, honestly.
	Just remembering back to it, it's just...
	When I actually talked to Mike the first time to make this conversation, I was like...
	When I typed the message explaining the situation and all this stuff, I actually broke the keyboard.
	I was so angry.
	I was pounding on it.
	It really does make me angry, and I'm not trying to laugh at it.
	I'm just this nervousness, but...
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it's terrible.
	This is a huge part of my childhood.
	It's pretty much the entire time I lived in that town before we moved to a bigger city.
	This is your childhood.
	I mean, not wanting to be fucking killed by your drunken, retarded, asshole parents is your childhood.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, you're right.
	How the fuck did she not get charged?
	Why being drunk, flipping an SUV and a kid flying out the window into a ditch that should have had water in it?
	I mean, how the hell did she not get charged again?
	How the fuck is she allowed to drive?
	I have no idea.
	I think my dad lied when they got to the hospital or something and said that someone else was driving or something in the shoes of...
	Oh, so he was really great at protecting people, just not his own goddamn children.
	Yeah.
	Well, my dad's a complete sociopath, so I don't really expect much from him.
	Yeah.
	And yeah, I mean, that's just...
	Well, it's interesting that your father was in the military, you said?
	Yes.
	So your father faced death in the military, and you faced death...
	As his children, right?
	Although you probably had a much higher chance of dying than he did as a soldier.
	Oh, yeah.
	He was in Guam.
	He taught people how to protect the bombs if someone were to come attack.
	So he was constantly yelling at people, telling them what to do.
	And yeah, he kind of brought that back home with them.
	And yeah, he wasn't in any danger when he was there.
	He was just hanging out on an island.
	Right, okay.
	All right.
	Yeah.
	So you have, I mean, you are like a library of horror stories, right?
	You're like a Stephen King from fucking wall to wall, right?
	Yeah, I would definitely.
	So what the hell are you supposed to talk about with people?
	No, I mean, I know it's a funny question, but it's a serious question.
	Like, when you're stuffed with that amount of trauma, what the hell are you supposed to talk about with people?
	You know, coming from this kind of completely insane and evil history, for which I'm incredibly sorry, what an unbelievably terrifying existence to live.
	You know, hope I don't die today.
	You know, people who drive drunk are, you know, blindfolded assholes, machine gunning with kids around.
	I mean, I just, I hate, I hate people who drive drunk so much.
	And I'm, you know, I'm so...
	I'm so sorry.
	And to me, when you come from these kinds of histories, because, I mean, I had different dangers myself.
	I mean, I just had the danger of a mom who would lose control and beat me to death, right?
	But it wasn't quite as constant.
	I was able to manage it because my mom was not a substance abuser.
	So I was afraid of, like, you know, getting choked out by a lunatic, but I was not afraid of...
	We didn't even have a car, right?
	So, but...
	It's sort of like when you come from a traumatic history, socializing with the general population, it's kind of like you just got abducted by an alien and you have video footage.
	On your phone of genuine aliens and then you go to a party and you can't tell anyone.
	Like what the fuck are you supposed to talk about?
	I just got abducted by aliens.
	I've got the footage right here on my phone and I'm not allowed to talk about it.
	It's not social anxiety.
	It's simply being too stuffed full of horror and secrets to be able to make any small talk.
	Yeah, I can definitely I can definitely see that.
	I was actually a very angry kid.
	My parents got divorced when I was in second grade.
	I became the man of the house.
	He ran up all of her credit card bills when that happened and she divorced him because he was cheating on her or something.
	I don't know.
	They're just terrible.
	Terrible situation.
	It wasn't until I randomly found something on YouTube And it was philosophy and then I started studying law and like these things, they gave me something to aim for that's a lot more peaceful and I didn't get that stuff until I was 17 in 2007.
	You didn't get – oh, to my stuff?
	I didn't get to the study of philosophy.
	Yeah, just violent neighborhood, violent kids going around.
	That's pretty much – It just went from one shitstorm to another every time we moved until we finally ended up in a decent neighborhood.
	I could calm down and I went online and I started looking at philosophy.
	The reason I did that was because I got in trouble with law.
	So I started looking at law, then somehow reasoning and logic always tend to mix together and I ended up with philosophy.
	I'm really happy that that happened because I don't know where I'd be if I didn't have an outlet for anything.
	And what happened to your mom?
	She had to go to rehab.
	Why did she have to go to rehab?
	Alcoholism.
	No, I get that, but why?
	Why did she go?
	Endangering.
	She didn't have a choice.
	It was court-ordered.
	Right.
	What happened that she was court ordered to go?
	It was that situation where she was driving us to the park.
	Oh, so she got hit with another DUI with kids?
	No, no.
	She only had one.
	The one where she crashed was not a DUI because my dad took her to the hospital instead of the ambulance.
	So, yeah, but that happened before the park situation.
	And then the park situation...
	Yeah, I had to go to rehab from that.
	Don't quote me on this because we couldn't remember because I think we blacked this part out, but we suspect that when that happened, when our dad was supposed to be taking care of us and he was never home at all because he'd go to work and the drink with his buddies and he'd come and pass out drunk on the couch, pee all over the couch, put a pizza in, forget about it, and everyone would wake up to the fire alarm to burn pizza.
	Yeah, and I think we cannot say yes or no on this, but we think he might have not taken care of us.
	Because I remember in my childhood not having food.
	Like my sister would put two pieces of bread together and throw some sugar in there and hand it to my younger baby brother and convince him that it was a snack when it was just two pieces of bread.
	Hey, you had some bread.
	I had to pick the moldy shit off food.
	Oh, yeah.
	We would hide food around the house.
	You hang around friends' houses around dinner time?
	And you just cross your fingers that you're going to get an invite, right?
	Absolutely.
	And I actually ended up going to the local grocery store and stealing batteries because this is the time period where Pokemon on Game Boy was cool.
	So I would sell cheap batteries that I had stolen and get my brother food and give me food for lunch.
	Yeah, no, for those who, yeah, the search for food from hungry kids is a pretty all-consuming endeavor when you are calorically challenged because of fucked up parents.
	So for those who've not had to go through that nomadic food hunting, you know, I remember being at school and going on day trips and not having any food.
	I mean, I would get packets of crackers and condiments and I would put like ketchup and relish and mustard on crackers and that would be my food because there was just no fucking food in the house.
	And yeah, it's rough.
	It's rough.
	You know, sometimes I would actually go out on dates, go over to the woman's house, or the girl's house, I guess, when I was a teenager, just because they'd have food.
	And I did actually, I'd stole some food from people's houses.
	So yeah, it's a rough thing to have to go through.
	And I am incredibly sorry for all of that.
	Yeah.
	It's nothing I can do about it now.
	It's already happened.
	I mean, I guess my main struggle...
	So you think it's not social anxiety disorder, it's just being overwhelmed by terrible situations that I've been in?
	Well, if you spell out the letters at the beginning of social anxiety disorder, what do you get?
	I'm just sad.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, you know, social anxiety disorder, you know, this is why I asked you about the etymology or the origins of what you call the dysfunction, because that's kind of important.
	You know, it is...
	I'll tell you why it's tough to talk to people when you've had a completely screwed up childhood.
	And this I blame society for.
	This is not the fault of us victims.
	When you have had a truly tragic childhood, and you had a truly tragic childhood, so did I. When you've had a truly tragic childhood, you will never know how cold-hearted the motherfuckers on this planet are until you open your heart about your sad history.
	In the company of the unempathetic muggles who never had many struggles.
	Yeah, I realized that after I can try to...
	I have very good friends from my childhood that, you know, I go over to their house and I have like four families within a mile radius of my house where I'm considered the adopted son.
	And I try to explain to them that, hey, Can I talk to you about this?
	It's about my childhood.
	I'm getting flashbacks and I'm remembering stuff now that I blacked out for emotional trauma.
	And I think their response is the same as everyone else.
	I'm sorry that that happened to you.
	End of topic, right?
	Yeah, exactly.
	End of topic.
	Many years ago, but long after I was a teenager, the mom of...
	One of my friends, I met her again.
	Now this woman knew what a bitch my mom was.
	And knew how unstable and dysfunctional she was.
	Knew all of that.
	And, you know, first question out of her mouth is, how is your poor mother?
	Seriously?
	Seriously.
	It's like – I don't understand why women get so much sympathy when – and this isn't some sexist remark or anything.
	A lot of the trauma was from the female parent.
	And I'm supposed to – Oh, yeah.
	Well, your mom chose your dad, right?
	Absolutely, yeah.
	And I'll even – on the times I can actually speak to her, I'll be like, what were you thinking?
	Why – Why would you create with that?
	I'm not saying that I don't love life and stuff because I'm happy to be here, but why?
	Was that the guy?
	That was the father.
	I despise my dad, by the way.
	I don't talk to him.
	I don't answer phone calls.
	I don't do anything that has to do with him because he is so manipulative.
	I just try to avoid...
	Well, but, you know, you say, why do women get such a break?
	But you're giving your mom a break, too.
	You've talked a lot more about anger with your dad than with your mom.
	I have less anger with my mother because in the divorce...
	Bullshit.
	She...
	Sorry.
	No, no, no.
	Until women are buying men rings, until women are asking men out, Until women are earning a lot of money so that men can stay home with the kids, until men are putting makeup and fishnet stockings and high heels on to attract women, women are responsible for the creation of families.
	Because men ask women out, men make the proposals, and women say yes or fucking no.
	That's their entire job.
	Yes or no.
	Put some false eyelashes on, push your tits up, and say yes or no.
	That's the fucking job.
	Yes or no.
	And that's the foundation of just about everything that goes on in the world is the woman saying yes or no.
	Hell yeah, or ooh, here's some mace, right?
	Yeah, I can definitely understand that.
	That's all it is.
	Every time I talk about women's responsibility for who they fuck and who they have children with, Women are all like, it takes two to tango.
	Yeah.
	When I was shopping for an engagement ring, there weren't a lot of women in there.
	It was all men buying shit with which to buy women.
	Here!
	Here's a down payment on your pussy!
	It was dug out of the center of the earth and it passed through the fucking intestines of some African slave and was sold to a massive, massive multinational corporation who funds child soldiers.
	Here!
	A diamond!
	For your pussy!
	Forever!
	God!
	And then women are like, you know, it takes two to tango.
	Well, it doesn't take two to buy an engagement ring.
	It doesn't take...
	Who goes on whose knee?
	The man goes on his knees begging the woman.
	And the woman gets to say, yeah or no.
	Yes or no.
	That's the whole job.
	Yes or no.
	That's it.
	And if you say yes to an asshole, you are an asshole!
	I don't even know how to put it any clearer than that.
	I'm not saying that it's completely forgiven or you think that.
	Who the fuck wants a wedding, for Christ's sake?
	I mean, which man says, you know, I could have a sports car or I could have a cake the size of the Eiffel Tower and a woman who looks like some cloud shat on her head?
	Jesus!
	Who wants a wedding?
	The wedding industry is like larger than the arms race.
	It is a kind of arms race.
	I mean, women are like, I got a man so much by the balls, I can squeeze them, and fucking crystalware comes out of it.
	And napkins, and napkins that look like fucking Howard Hughes has doodled on them with a stencil for 4,000 years, and something called a centerpiece, which I still can't figure out what the fuck it is.
	Okay, I gotcha.
	I gotcha.
	Who wants that shit?
	Hey, can we find a really shitty band?
	Is that possible?
	A band who's been together for 20 years and is still playing weddings?
	Is that possible?
	A band who's like 1.01% better than your average karaoke performer?
	Let's have that!
	That would be fantastic!
	I couldn't think of anything better!
	Maybe they know House of the Rising Sun!
	Wouldn't that be cool?
	God almighty.
	Who wants a car that looks like the longest aluminum shit you've ever had?
	I mean, who wants that stuff?
	What the fuck is a corsage?
	Why are there dead flowers on my tits?
	I can't figure that shit out.
	Who wants this?
	This is all for women.
	God.
	Let's spend $8,000 on a dress that you're going to bitch about never fitting in again for the rest of your natural born life.
	That makes you look like some candy-ass volcano pumped it right out of your shoes.
	Who wants a wedding?
	Oh my god!
	But it takes two to tango, you know?
	We aren't responsible.
	Give me a second.
	You see?
	Men buy us rings.
	Men buy us weddings.
	Men buy us stuff.
	Men buy us houses.
	Have you ever seen the average bachelor's place?
	It's like a cardboard box with a $6,000 stereo inside.
	That's what men want.
	Do you know there's this thing called trim that goes around like the edges of houses?
	Apparently, it's really fucking important.
	I mean it's really important It has to have the right number of bevels, for Christ's sake.
	That's called trim.
	If you don't know what it is, consider yourself lucky.
	I don't, so there we go.
	You don't know what it is.
	No idea.
	Excellent.
	Do you know you can get marble in your house?
	I've seen this in people's houses.
	You can get marble in your house.
	You will never, ever, ever, ever know whether that fucking surface is clean because it's all mottled and shit and it's all like you can wipe it and it's like you don't know whether you're wiping up the marble.
	Or some ant shit that's on your counter.
	Like, you couldn't think of a more ridiculous thing to put on your counter.
	I'll never know if this is clean.
	It's literally like ordering tidy whities with shit stains already in them.
	I don't know if these things are clean or not.
	Hey, can I get some t-shirts that already smell like BO and can never ever be clean?
	Fantastic!
	Can I get a car that smells like ass?
	Wonderful!
	Can I get counters?
	I'll never ever know if they're clean.
	Oh, that's the one thing.
	On the other hand though, do you know what you need to get?
	Let me tell you what you need to get.
	You need to get glasses.
	You need to get glasses that if there is one tiny hair from a fly's tongue within 4,000 light years of them, a woman will know.
	And then you need to get some shit that goes in your dishwasher that will melt your fucking hand off if you touch it.
	Because that stuff has got to be so clean, you can use it to create an industrial-strength laser with which to separate your two eyebrows.
	I could go on and on.
	I believe you.
	This is...
	It's this idea that somehow men and women are equal in the courting game and it takes two to tango.
	It's like maybe if 99.9% of the world's resources weren't wrapped around the vanity of women for useless shit that destroys the planet, maybe then we can consider it equal.
	Maybe if over 80% of the money spent in a household wasn't spent...
	And the other 20% is men with a list made by women.
	Maybe if 98.9% of every mall, except for one corner where you can take a shit as a man under a tree somewhere, wasn't dedicated to the beautification and vanity of women, maybe then we could say, hey, you know, stuff's kind of equal in the dating game.
	But anyway.
	Okay.
	Long one.
	Yeah, you're right.
	That should not be forgiven easily.
	It wasn't even easily, though.
	She hasn't touched a drink since, and she refuses to drive.
	Can I do one more?
	Go on.
	Can I just do one more?
	I just do one more.
	That's it.
	I will allow it.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Have you ever been to the paint section in a hardware store?
	Yes.
	First of all, can't they have any straight names for paint?
	It's always like, ask this chap's gay flower.
	You know, it's like, can't they have, you know, like, man's squid beer shit on a stick?
	You know, why can't they have just some, you know, chest hair neon or something like that?
	It's like the gayest names.
	Like, I know they're designers and all that.
	It's the gayest conceivable names.
	Paint, you know, I'm fine, you know, fine, you know, paint, whatever, right?
	But, oh my god, it's like, the shades that they have, the shades that they have, I remember when I was living with the woman, she's literally holding up these paint chits, right?
	And it's like, which color do you like?
	And I seriously, like, you could have given me a million dollars to tell them apart.
	Well, this one is chartreuse baby's alphabet wing, and this one is like butterfly ass cantaloupe or whatever it is, right?
	And I can't possibly tell which ones these are apart.
	It's like I'm holding them up to the wall.
	I'm holding them up to the wall.
	Which color do you like?
	It's like all of these colors make me want to go and have sex with Freddie Mercury.
	I can't tell you which one I like because if I like any of these colors, I'm not living with a woman!
	If I can tell these women apart, I'm banging guys!
	Okay. um Okay.
	Yeah, I kind of lost what I was thinking.
	Sorry.
	No, we were talking about how you weren't angry at your mom.
	It's not...
	...paintions than I am at your mom, but go ahead.
	Yeah.
	It's not necessarily that...
	It's a lack of anger.
	It's more...
	I've seen more effort.
	To be a better parent from her than I've seen from my dad.
	So there's still anger.
	It's just not the fiery hatred that I have towards my father.
	Why?
	I mean, you said she's made an effort to be a better parent, but didn't she end up having to go to rehab?
	Yes, that was all when I was a kid.
	But after she was done with that, she...
	Absolutely, yeah.
	Not a drop, even at her wedding.
	And when did she stop?
	Oh, jeez.
	About 20 years ago.
	All right.
	20 years ago, really?
	Around, yeah.
	So you were still a kid when she stopped?
	Yeah.
	That must have been about 18 years.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I was still a little kid.
	And when did she divorce your dad?
	How old were you?
	Whatever.
	I can't remember the age.
	I was in second grade.
	Okay.
	Yeah, about eight.
	Alright, so should we go back to your social anxiety?
	Well, now I just...
	My main point with the question was...
	Should I confront them or just seek third-party help?
	I clearly have a lot of issues.
	When I go out, I feel anxious all the time.
	Sadly, I'm admitting this because it's true.
	I do drink with my friends if we go out to a bar or something where I don't know people.
	You can't talk to people at a bar about anything intelligent.
	Hang on.
	When you use the word friends, perhaps it's slightly different.
	Because I tell you this, knowing your history, if I was your friend and you said, hey, I'm feeling anxious, I think I'll have a drink, what do you think I would say?
	Probably no.
	Due to the obvious alcoholism trend with my upbringing.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But it's on the same thing.
	You know, the people that I can tell that, I restrain myself from most conversation that I could have with people.
	And I can't even...
	Ah!
	But no, no, no.
	Okay, sorry.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	I'm sorry.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	Okay, but you have to know why you're having trouble talking with people.
	Then you won't need the alcohol, right?
	Yeah.
	All right.
	So...
	I just don't know if it's better for me to...
	I don't know.
	I'm trying to think.
	It's just judgment or something.
	I don't know.
	I feel when I'm around people, I don't know what to talk about or something, and then the overwhelming anxious feeling comes over me, and my amygdala lights up and says, okay, we're getting out of here.
	Okay, okay.
	So that's good.
	So how are you feeling in this conversation?
	I'm easing into comfort.
	I feel a lot better than I did at the beginning.
	Do you feel like you don't know what to talk about?
	I feel like I've introduced so many random occurrences of terrible things that I'm kind of just jumping around.
	Yeah, but do you feel like you don't have something to say?
	Like, do you feel like you have to struggle for something to say?
	I don't mean, is everything you're saying coherent?
	God knows I don't achieve that, but are you struggling for like, oh God, what do I say?
	In other words, are you outside of yourself, watching yourself, having the conversation, and interfering with your communication?
	Yes, yeah.
	I'm on topic, but it's like too many, too many topics for the short amount of time that I can actually speak, so...
	No, but too many topics is not social anxiety, right?
	That's maybe you can't get everything in that you want to say, but you're not struggling to say something or anything, right?
	Yeah, I'm pretty much telling the stories of my past.
	I don't know.
	I mean, I'm trying to think where...
	What exactly I could do to make myself feel better?
	And Mike did suggest talking to a therapist.
	No, no, no, I will.
	No, hang on.
	Hang on.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	I mean, I'm talking about you being a better...
	You know, I'm talking about how comfortable and I keep interrupting you.
	So I'm sorry for that.
	But...
	But I think that there's a reason...
	What happens if you talk about, this stuff's on your mind a lot, right?
	I mean, you're young.
	It was a hell of a horrifying history.
	You've got a boatload of processing to do and not like a dinghy, like a fucking supertanker processing to do.
	So this stuff is on your mind a lot, right?
	All the time, yes.
	And is this something you can talk about with your friends?
	I have talked about it with my best friend.
	We can talk about this stuff and there's no judgment there.
	And there's empathy and all that?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Absolutely, yes.
	Between me and...
	Okay, but what about the friends you're drinking with?
	No.
	Not at all.
	I'll try to explain anxiety and I'll just try to explain a bunch of stuff like...
	They found out I was an atheist, so every once in a while they'll call me heathen.
	And, you know...
	Yeah, which is the bullshit way of dealing with somebody's beliefs, right?
	Absolutely.
	It's snurfing.
	Yeah, it's definitely more difficult to speak to most of the people that I know.
	And, you know, it is...
	It's like, ha ha ha, baby, ha ha ha, right?
	Yeah.
	And now that I'm thinking about it, why do I call these people friends?
	Um...
	Well, this is my question, right?
	I don't have an honest answer for that.
	I cannot think to myself why I surround myself with these people.
	Because, I don't know, I'll give you an answer right away.
	But yeah, because you don't even know if it's your social anxiety, right?
	Exactly.
	You know, we think of ourselves like, and we have this brain, right, that sits inside our head, right?
	What's the great line in True Detective?
	We sit in a little box pretending to be a person.
	But we have this brain that sits inside our head that doesn't have, you know, physical connection with anybody else.
	And because of that physical reality, we think of ourselves as individual.
	And we think of everything that's in our head as us, as ours, right?
	I mean, it's not like, if somebody else drinks, it's not my liver that gets fucked up, right?
	If somebody else smokes...
	You know, some other house.
	It's not my lungs that get screwed up.
	So we have this physical integrity that makes us feel like we're sort of separate from other people, right?
	Yeah.
	And nothing could be more dangerous and delusory than this idea that we are somehow, within ourselves, within our heads, we have this kind of integrity and independence from others.
	That is not how...
	The mind of a tribal creature, and we are tribal creatures, that's not how the mind of a tribal creature works.
	We are impressed upon, whether we like it or not, by everyone who spends time with us.
	Everyone who spends time with us infects us, for better or for worse, right?
	It can be an inoculation or it can be a disease, right?
	Yeah.
	Everyone who spends time with us, everyone we expose ourselves to, whether it's through the media, in person or whatever, has an impression upon us.
	Which is why the vividness of video games, back to the first caller, is so important because these people, it impresses upon us that all interactions must be dealt with with lightsabers and rocket launchers and magic missiles and fireball spells, right?
	Everything is combat.
	And all of these games are training you for win-lose combat.
	They're not training you for win-win negotiations.
	So you don't know.
	So if you're an atheist and other people are uncomfortable with that and they're making snarky little bullshit comments, you have no idea yet whether it's your social anxiety or their social anxiety.
	Because people who are very unconscious of their own Problems will almost always provoke those problems in other people, right?
	So people who are very socially anxious will provoke social anxiety in other people.
	So if your atheism makes them uncomfortable, they're going to make snarky little comments to keep you kind of off balance and keep you feeling a little anxious and basically telling you that you can't talk about something that's very important to you.
	That's their anxiety, not yours.
	But they're creating that anxiety in you to cover up.
	The best defense is a good offense.
	They're creating that anxiety in you so that you focus on yourself rather than learning something true about them.
	Ah...
	Emotional mask.
	Right.
	I did not think about it like that.
	Yeah, I mean, we always know...
	So people who are unfaithful are often very suspicious of their partner, right?
	They're projecting, right?
	This lack of trustworthiness that they have that they project onto their partner and so on, right?
	Yeah.
	And it's funny because when you say that, now that I'm thinking...
	Everyone, all my closest friends, they're very outgoing socially.
	They're musicians and stuff and they go out and perform out in town at bars and stuff like that.
	Now that I'm thinking about it, I do attach myself to people who are socially outgoing because I'm not able to do that.
	I do podcasts and stuff online all the time, but if I were to have to give a speech, I'd have a heart attack.
	I just think it's strange that me not having the comfortability and the anxiety when being around large groups of people, I would put myself in the situations by hanging with these people to only interact with them in these situations where if they're doing a performance, I'm out in the crowd amongst the people listening and I'm not necessarily having a heart attack because obviously there's a drink in my hand.
	Self-destructive behavior.
	Huh.
	Right.
	So do you have a problem with social anxiety?
	I mean, this is a very important question.
	And of course, I don't have anywhere to diagnose.
	This is just my thoughts.
	But I'll tell you what I think social anxiety in general is.
	It's being around people who are resolutely opposed to who you are.
	They are resolutely opposed to anything honest and true that you can say to them.
	If I put you in a situation and I said, Josh, you have to lie for two hours or I'm going to beat you up.
	Let's pretend I could.
	So you have to go into this social situation and everything that you say has to be a lie.
	Or, I'm going to beat you up.
	Or, everything you say has to be lie, and if you pull that off for two or three hours, I will give you a million dollars.
	Right?
	What would that be like?
	Well, I mean, I think, obviously, not being in the situation, it would be better to hear that there's a reward for being dishonest, other than a threat of violence for not being dishonest.
	Right.
	Huh.
	But how would that be for you to be in that situation where you had to lie, everything that you said had to be a lie?
	I can't...
	I don't do that.
	Like, I've...
	I just don't...
	I try my best to...
	No, no, no, no.
	Give me the theory.
	Give me the theory.
	We'll get to the practice in a sec.
	But what would that be like for you if you had to lie for two or three hours straight?
	What would that be like for me?
	Pretty unbearable.
	It would be.
	It would be very stressful, right?
	Yes.
	Right.
	Now, would you say, if I gave that someone and I said, I'll give you a million bucks or I'll beat up your dog if you tell a lie, if you tell everything you say is a lie for the next two or three hours, and they came out of that and they said, man, that was uncomfortable, would we say, well, you have a disorder?
	No.
	Why?
	Because you know it's wrong to not tell the truth.
	If you're not a sociopath, you know that it's wrong to be dishonest.
	Well, it's hard.
	Yeah, it's difficult.
	It's straining on your mind.
	It's unnatural, but it's hard.
	Okay, so what I'm sort of trying to point out here is, so let's just take the little example of your friends who call you a heathen because you're an atheist, right?
	Well, what do you feel?
	How do you feel about that?
	How do I feel when they call me a heathen?
	Yeah, when they sort of make jokes about atheism and all that, right?
	I think that Any differences that people have, if you can have a conversation about it and not insult the other person, then there could be acceptance.
	I don't think that they accept it.
	What was that?
	Oh, Josh.
	What was my question?
	Do you remember?
	What do I feel when they call me a heathen?
	Did you give me any feelings there?
	No, I did not.
	No, you did not.
	You gave me a fortune cookie of pseudo-acceptance.
	Okay.
	What do you feel when they call you heathen to make fun of your...
	Disrespected.
	That's sort of a judgment, not a feeling?
	I guess...
	It kind of makes me angry at them because, yeah, obviously it's my...
	Belief or lack thereof, and I don't say anything negative about their stuff, but they can't show me the same respect, you know?
	Well, you could say something negative about their stuff, which is, you know, stop making snarky little bullshit jokes, you pussies, about something that's very important to me.
	I'm not doing it to you, so grow up.
	I've said that before to a couple of...
	And then what happens?
	Uh...
	It's the testosterone-driven BS where they'll try to...
	They'll further the insult because I reacted to the insult by not playing their game.
	So they escalate, right?
	They double down?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Oh, who's Mr.
	Sensitive?
	We can't make a little joke, blah, blah, blah, right?
	Exactly.
	It's pretty annoying.
	All right, so you can't...
	Be honest about your experience just at this one particular incident, and I'm sure there's lots of them, right?
	All the time, yeah.
	Okay, so if you are in a situation where you can't be honest, then it's anxiety-provoking, right?
	Yeah, I'm definitely starting to see.
	Right, so if I'm trying to break out, if I'm, you know, I come from a Jewish background, I'm trying to break out of Nazi Germany, And I've got to lie to the border guard to get across?
	Is someone going to say, wow, that Steph guy who's trying to get out of Germany, who's lying to the border guard, he's really got social anxiety.
	He's got some internal dysfunction because he's really tense and scared, it seems, trying to get out.
	Of Nazi Germany.
	We should medicate him.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	I've had to do the medication thing when I was a kid.
	But that's what, like, there's no context, right?
	There's no context.
	Absolutely.
	You have to keep a secret about the atheism.
	You have to keep a secret about your history.
	You have to keep a secret about your trauma.
	You have to keep a secret about your emotions and your thoughts.
	You're hiding yourself at all times.
	And then we call that social anxiety disorder.
	No, it's asshole proximity disorder.
	Well put.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	I thought I had a problem.
	It turns out I was just surrounded by assholes.
	And once I got rid of the assholes, hey, look, my problem is all solved, right?
	Definitely.
	Yeah, I'm...
	I didn't actually think of it like that before.
	So you need to have people in your life that you can be honest with.
	And there are two kinds of people in the world.
	Those who are traumatized and those who reject those who are traumatized.
	Right?
	And the second consider themselves very good people.
	Yeah.
	Definitely know that.
	So, I think that's really important.
	If you want to get rid of what you call this disorder, then you have to surround yourself with safe people.
	If I keep hungry lions in my bedroom, it's hard for me to say that I have some mysterious insomnia disorder, right?
	Like, I don't want to get fucking eaten in my sleep, so I can stay awake, right?
	Totally.
	And it is.
	Look, it's horrifying to me the degree to which supposedly healthy people from supposedly decent backgrounds have zero fucking empathy for the victims of child abuse.
	It is the great, horrifying, horrifying disorder of the world.
	And let me tell you something.
	Let me tell you something, Josh.
	Mm-hmm.
	The indifference of the supposedly healthy people to the victims of child abuse, their discomfort when somebody says, I had a bad childhood.
	Do you know that is fundamentally what allows abusers to hurt their children?
	What you face as an adult when you start talking about your victimized childhood...
	You know, I don't have anyone around in my life who was around when I was a kid or a teenager in my early 20s.
	Like, not one person is still around.
	Because when I started in my teens and early 20s in particular, really working on self-knowledge, and then in real particular when I got into therapy, well, I needed to talk about stuff with friends, right?
	This was important stuff I was going through.
	And they were actually witnesses to my history.
	They knew what What it was like for me to some degree or another, to whatever degree.
	And to a single soul, to an absolute cold-hearted, brain-fuckery arseholery, every single one of those people didn't want to hear about it.
	Not one single person had any even remote level of comfort listening to me talk about the stuff that I was dealing with or had dealt with for many years.
	The violence, the fear, the hunger, the poverty, all of the stuff that occurred.
	The little slice of the German war zone that took residence at Don Mills and Lawrence.
	And not one of them, not one of them felt any comfort.
	In fact, they all were acutely uncomfortable.
	Because people who were raised in more functional households, they make this terrible mistake.
	The mistake they make is, well, I guess I'm just a strong and healthy person.
	It's like, well, yeah, because you weren't getting beaten up every day.
	You know, they're getting beaten up every day.
	Kind of has something to do with it.
	Right?
	So they think that they're just strong and healthy and fine and so on.
	Right?
	But to me, it's like, okay, well, if you're so strong and healthy and fine, then...
	Where's your compassion for people less fortunate than yourself?
	Where's your compassion to people less fortunate than yourself?
	You know, it's like the people born on third base who think they hit a home run, right?
	And that is the great horror of the world, in my experience.
	Because there's two layers to that horror.
	The first layer is...
	That if you're wounded and you ask for help, people will literally spit on you.
	You know, you say, hey, you know, I just found out.
	I've got this giant serrated knife in my side.
	And what do people do?
	Do they get you an ice pack?
	Do they call the ambulance?
	Do they get you some Advil?
	No.
	They fucking lean down.
	They take that serrated knife and they turn it.
	Because you say, I was isolated and I was rejected by my parents.
	Hey, hey, don't talk to me about that stuff.
	Let me isolate and reject you some fucking more.
	Because I know that is the worst thing that happened to you as a child.
	Let me help your parents in their historical, rusty, twisted knife scenario by putting just another fucking turn in it.
	I felt alienated.
	I felt isolated.
	I felt abused.
	Hey, hey, don't tell me that shit.
	That interferes with my vanity of accidental good family.
	So, it literally is that people see that you've broken your leg and they fucking lean their knees into the fragments rather than help you.
	And that's what the abusers rely on.
	It is the general rejection of the rejected in society that the abusers rely on that they can count as certain as fucking gravity in pursuing their unholy treatment of their children.
	They know that people are going to veer away from child abuse.
	And that's how they can get away with it.
	So how could my mother get away with it?
	How could my mother get away with it?
	How could my mother get away with it?
	I found out in my 20s and 30s when I began to talk about this stuff with my friends and they were like, whoa, whoa.
	Right?
	Right?
	You can get them to talk about it a little bit, but it's like holding a ferret underwater, right?
	It's down there for 30 seconds, but it's clawing and biting the whole time, right?
	And as soon as you let it go, off it goes, right?
	Yeah.
	And then I realized, well, this is how my mom can get away with it.
	Because nobody wants to look at child abuse.
	Nobody wants to look at child abuse.
	Yeah, they're pretty much...
	Pretty much just staying in their own comfort zone of not wanting to hear about your negative things so they can continue their little happy thing they've got going for them rather than deal with actual issues.
	Yeah, and because so many kids are being hurt and abused, they'd actually have to fucking do something rather than watch the game and eat some fucking beer nuts, right?
	So, yeah, I mean, everybody wants to be a, you know, let's go watch Superman!
	He's a hero!
	It's like, well, you could be a hero.
	You can go and help some victims of child abuse.
	No!
	No!
	Not enough CGI! Sorry!
	I don't have the abs for that kind of heroism.
	You don't need any abs.
	You know what I mean, right?
	Yeah.
	And so that is how they get away with it.
	This is how the abusers get away with it.
	I mean, this is the last thing I'll say about this, but this is literally what it is like.
	It's like I go in with a balaclava And a gun.
	I go into a bank and I'm going to rob the bank, right?
	Well, why don't people do that?
	Well, because alarms go off and the cops come and you get charged and all that kind of stuff, right?
	There are video cameras, like there's huge amounts of social energy, economic energy poured into, don't steal from the bank, right?
	At least from the outside.
	Yeah.
	So, With regards to child abuse, this is literally what it's like.
	There are no cameras in the bank.
	You don't have to wear a mask.
	You don't have to have a gun.
	Everybody looks away and covers their eyes when you walk through.
	The teller hands you the money before you even get there.
	And then the bank manager offers to drive you anywhere you want to go.
	And then people say, you know it's weird how many banks get stolen from.
	And society says, you know, it's weird how many children get abused.
	Well, guess what, fuckers?
	It's because of you people that we got abused.
	It's because you won't listen to what happened.
	It's because it's uncomfortable for you if we talk about what happened to us as children.
	You're the reason it happened.
	Look in the mirror.
	They're the effect of your indifference.
	The abusers see the effect of your avoidance.
	They are the shadow caused by your averted head.
	They do it because they can get away with it.
	And they can get away with it because you don't want to fucking hear about it.
	It's tragic.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, definitely.
	That bank, the bank scenario you just put that through is...
	That's exactly how, I mean, and I got hit by my dad, you know, so I can definitely, I remember the belt, things like that.
	And, you know, I tried to talk to a teacher about it, but there were no marks.
	So, okay, now I'm making up stories.
	Okay, cool.
	Well, maybe he just has a really active imagination or something.
	I don't know.
	And then I ended up on Ritalin.
	Yeah.
	And fortunately, that shit wasn't around when I was a kid.
	That horrendous stuff wasn't around.
	I'm incredibly sorry for all of that.
	I was in my school.
	I smelled.
	There's no soap in the house.
	I smelled.
	My hair was greasy.
	My clothes had holes in them.
	I was hungry.
	I was underweight.
	And the teachers...
	Would be frustrated with me always because they'd say, well, if effort matched ability, you'd be an A+. You have such ability.
	It's very strange that you don't exercise your ability more.
	You know, and it's like they're a bunch of swimmers, and I'm the one who's got an anvil tied to his fucking nutsack in the water, and I'm just trying to have my balls not get ripped off.
	And people are saying, you know, he just doesn't apply himself to winning the swimming race.
	I don't know.
	Maybe he's just lazy or maybe he's just inattentive or maybe he's entitled or he just doesn't seem to put the effort in.
	It's like, fuck you.
	Fuck you all and the horse you rode it on.
	This world has to burn the way it is.
	It just must.
	It just must.
	There is almost nothing that should be left standing when the world changes.
	I'm just trying to, yeah.
	I mean, on a point that you just said a second ago about you were hungry and everything and, you know, you're skinny, underfed.
	I just...
	We were looking at pictures at my sister's wedding and we realized that the three of us were substantially shorter than all of our cousins.
	Me and my brother were like a foot shorter than the guys and my sister was like six, seven inches shorter than the chicks.
	We think that was malnutrition.
	Sorry.
	When you said that, I thought of that right away.
	Right.
	That's like a permanent thing.
	That's the way it is.
	That's how it's going to stay.
	The amount of self-satisfied smug pricks who blamed me for struggling to survive in a cage of predators that they fucking locked from the outside.
	is the planet and was the planet for me for many years and is still so much of the planet now.
	And everybody pins heroes on soldiers who shoot on command and then turns away from people who are actually attempting to heal the world by talking about their trauma.
	These motherfuckers will re-traumatize children Adult children of child abuse, they will re-traumatize those people by recoiling and rejecting the victims of abuse who are trying to heal themselves through making a connection and they step into the role of abusers and re-inflict the abuse on people who are trying to heal.
	This is how fucking predatory and nasty So much of the world is.
	And this is the horror that you see when you speak about your history to the world as a whole.
	You know, I've been doing this show for seven or eight years.
	Do you think anyone from my past has ever written to me and said, wow, I didn't know, or gosh, you know, whatever, right?
	No.
	No.
	I might as well, like, be talking to myself with no mic attached to anything.
	Right?
	There is...
	This constant need that when somebody shows vulnerability, you fuck them up as much as possible.
	This is just the way that human nature has evolved as it is now.
	And look, I get, oh, well, these people had difficulties in their head.
	It's like, yeah, but there's the values, right?
	There's the values that people say.
	Sympathy for the victim.
	The woman who's a victim of rape, right?
	Well, she can't have done anything to have brought it on herself.
	No slut-shaming.
	Fine!
	That's a great idea.
	But the idea that somebody would say, a woman would say, or a man would say, I was raped.
	And people would say, ooh, that makes you shoddy.
	That makes you dirty.
	That means that you are damaged goods.
	Do you know how horrifying that would be and what a recoil in society that would be for a woman who was raped to then recoil from her as if she were damaged goods and that you just didn't want to hear about it because it soiled the interaction?
	That she was dirty and she was stained by being victimized?
	But this is what the victims of child abuse live with every day.
	The recoiling from society, the, ooh, you know, ooh, I don't want to talk about that, that's uncomfortable, ooh, I don't like that, this is not right, this is bad!
	Well, that's guilt, because everyone knows a child who was abused, almost everyone knows a child who was abused, and these fuckers did nothing about it, and then they get uncomfortable because it's their bad conscience that is being pricked.
	Well, fuck you and your conscience.
	I'm here, I'm a prick, and I'm going to do it.
	Sorry if it makes you feel bad.
	it's either you or me fuckers.
	I'm just trying to think back on...
	Yeah, I'm a...
	No, when a great wrong has been done in the world, someone gets to feel bad.
	Someone gets to feel bad, right?
	And the great wrongs that have been done.
	Why are people calling into this show like you?
	Because who else is going to listen and really get it?
	Who else is going to say, yeah, tell me more, and I'm so sorry, and I get it, and I empathize, and right?
	Yeah.
	And who is, I mean, who else is not going to say bullshit?
	Well, they did the best they could in the knowledge they had.
	I'm sure they meant well.
	Yeah, I've heard that, you know, I was raped.
	Well, I'm sure he meant well.
	I was raped.
	Well, I'm sure that your rapist was doing the best he could, but the knowledge he had.
	So you should sympathize with his bad childhood and marry him.
	Imagine saying that to a rape victim.
	It's like, my mom was a horrible person who beat me up, screamed at me, was lividly insane in my face every day, and people are like, well, she was doing the best she could, but the knowledge she had, I'm sure she meant well.
	You really should go and see her on Mother's Day.
	Really?
	Really?
	And that's what you say to the victims of all other kinds of abuse.
	My husband beat me up every day for 20 years.
	Well, okay, but it is your anniversary coming up, so you be sure to buy him something nice.
	And you go out to a nice meal with him, because he's going to be with you for the rest of your life.
	You can never get divorced, you see, because he's your husband.
	I didn't choose him.
	He was assigned to me by the village elders.
	Well, that's just a challenge that'll make you stronger in the overcoming of.
	Maybe you chose him in a past life.
	Oh, my fucking God.
	Oh my fucking god.
	You clusterfuck of brain-numbing, heart-rending assholes.
	How many victims of multi-year abuse are told to go back, forgive, and bond with their abusers?
	Hey, I know you were in a concentration camp, but you really should go and become best buds with that Nazi.
	Because he was doing the best he could with the knowledge he had, and I'm sure he meant well.
	And it's International Nazi Day tomorrow, so you be sure to pick him up a nice fucking Glock, okay?
	Make him feel good.
	He's getting old.
	Wow.
	Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.
	Fucking child-rending bullshit.
	Everyone who chooses a relationship gets to be victimized.
	We who never chose our parents in any way, shape, or form, we must continually be victimized by saying, you've got to go back for more!
	Always!
	No matter what!
	No matter if they don't change, no matter if they escalate, no matter if they continue to verbally abuse you, no matter if they continue to threaten you, you've got to go back because I did nothing!
	The whole time you were victimized and I don't want to feel bad so you go back.
	You stuff your fucking future into the cracks of my bad conscience because I don't want to feel bad so you've got to get your whole fucking life ruined so I don't have a twinge of conscience so go back because I don't want to feel bad.
	I didn't save you from the rape, so you go marry your fucking rapist and I'll call it love.
	That's the world that we live in and that's the horror that you see when you talk about your history with people.
	Thank you.
	And the only thing more repellent than the abusers is the enablers, which is just about everybody else.
	And they know that.
	The abusers know that.
	That's why they can do what they do.
	The bank robbers know there's no security cameras.
	They know everyone's going to look away.
	They know the teller's going to hand over the money, and the bank manager's going to drive them to Florida.
	That's why they steal!
	They know!
	And this is why abusers can do what they do, because they know everyone's going to say, you were raped, go marry your rapist.
	Or you're a bad person, because you were a child, and fuck children.
	That's the mantra of the world.
	Fuck children!
	Pile them with national debt.
	Shove them in the shitty schools.
	Drug them if they don't comply.
	Fuck children!
	That is the national anthem of the entire fucking planet.
	Fuck children!
	Oh, you don't want to hear that Jesus died for your sins?
	Fuck you!
	He did.
	Too bad.
	We're just going to topple that ancient fucking Jewish zombie corpse into your crib and call it a loving reunion.
	Oh, you don't want to feel like you were born evil just for breathing?
	Too bad you were.
	Fuck you, kids.
	Oh, I can't take out my frustrations on adults because they can have me thrown in jail?
	Fuck you, kids.
	I'm just going to hit you a thousand times a year.
	Oh, we don't want to confront unions.
	We don't want to confront entitled people.
	We don't want to face up to the fact in America that the social and economic system is so completely fucked up that one in five families has zero people working.
	Zero people working.
	We don't want to confront our fucked up system.
	We don't want to deal with the fact that voting is just bribery.
	So fuck you, kids.
	We're selling you off.
	You get born $1.4 million in debt.
	Too fucking bad.
	Fuck you.
	How much of society could even remotely function if the central mantra of the planet was not, fuck the kids at every opportunity from all angles and in every conceivable way?
	Oh, we don't want to take on the teachers' unions.
	We don't want to take on property taxes.
	We don't want to take on shitty schools.
	Fuck you, kids!
	You've got to go and we'll call it the illusion of an education.
	We don't want to deal with the fact that there's school bullying.
	So fuck you kids!
	We're going to force every goddamn asshole kid into the same cage at all times and we're going to have really fucked up families and we're going to pay moms to serially have kids with unworthy...
	Sperm donors.
	You get to grow up without dads in shitty neighborhoods with shitty unmotivated teachers in schools designed and run by prisons.
	People who design and run prisons with metal detectors so that you don't get stabbed.
	And we're gonna drug half the kids with drugs that the FDA puts a black box warning on to say this makes people fucking homicidal.
	We're gonna cage all these kids up together, pump them full of drugs that make them murderous, and then do you know what we're gonna do?
	We're gonna say to kids, you should have an anti-bullying campaign.
	Like, where's the anti-rape PSAs for prisons?
	You guys should just get together and not rape.
	Be strong.
	Wear a bracelet.
	It's insane.
	I mean, it's so fucking mental.
	It's so mental.
	But who can talk about this?
	Could culture survive?
	Could religion survive?
	Could statism survive?
	Could what we call the world as it stands even remotely survive if we drop the mantra of screw kids?
	And we actually designed our lives around what children need and deserve.
	Science is pretty clear.
	Breastfeed them, kiss them, love them, educate them, hug them, negotiate with them, don't raise your voice, don't yell at them.
	That's just for the listeners.
	Be nice to them.
	Hey, look, it's paradise!
	All of a sudden.
	If we actually did what science has been saying very clearly for a half decade, what needs to be done for children, if we just said, okay, well, let's do, you know, if we actually live by our fucking values, we all say children, the future, children, everything.
	What if we just said, hey, let's do what's good for children.
	Let's try that shit on for science.
	Instead of burying them in debt, shoving them in shitty schools, hitting them, yelling at them, indoctrinating them with religion and statism and patriotism and military worship and shit like that, what if we just did what was right for children according to science?
	Well, we can't do any of that because the whole fucking world is fuck children and I don't want to live in a world that looks alien to me and if there's no fuck children in the world, I don't even know what planet I'm on.
	And I don't want to go off world.
	Go to Mars.
	We already live on the planet of war.
	We already live on the red planet.
	And it's the war is against children and all the other wars are just the shadow of the war on children.
	Anyway, that's my thoughts about your supposed social anxiety.
	I think you should have more.
	And it's not a disorder.
	It's not a disorder.
	It's a recognition.
	It's a clear-eyed view, unconsciously, of where the world is.
	See, I've never thought of it like that.
	You are raised by weapons, economic weapons, educational weapons, propaganda weapons.
	You are ringed by weapons.
	Fucking 9,000 lasers on your body and people say, well, he seems to have an anxiety disorder.
	Hey, I tell you what, put the fucking guns down.
	Stop selling the children off to foreign banksters and stuffing them in sociopathic run schools.
	How about we stop pointing guns at children and then we'll see how many fucking disorders they have that need to be medicated.
	Oh, I've got a good idea!
	Why did you stop scaring the living shit out of children with global warming?
	That might be nice.
	Let's say it's real.
	It's not something children should deal with.
	How I've got a great fucking idea.
	Stop telling children it's almost the fucking end of the world.
	Which they can't do anything about.
	Because even the adults can't do anything about it.
	Or aren't.
	There's psychiatrists who are saying that they've never seen anxiety...
	Anxiety disorders this high in children and one of the major causes of anxiety disorders in children is global warming terror porn!
	Stop telling children it's the end of the fucking world!
	That they're gonna burst into flames and die and all the butterflies are gonna fall at their feet in flames.
	But fuck kids!
	We've got a political agenda.
	We need to sell some fucking carbon credits.
	So, David Suzuki, inhale all of the fiery propaganda you can imagine and breathe like fucking smorg on the hopes and hearts of children.
	Burn, babies, burn!
	We want power!
	So, yeah.
	Social anxiety disorder.
	I can see that.
	Yeah, I'm trying.
	I'm trying to think.
	Yeah, okay.
	I'm finally going to take your advice.
	I'm going to get in contact with that therapist.
	Oh, good.
	You can say, you know, this guy who talked about not yelling at people was yelling at me for like an hour.
	So I think I need some therapy.
	No, I think that's a good idea.
	I just hope the therapist gets a little bit about what we're talking about.
	But, you know, there's nothing wrong with helping your therapist understand stuff too, right?
	Yeah.
	It should be a conversation anyways, right?
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Thank you for a great set of questions.
	And I really, really want to tell you that...
	I am so incredibly sorry for the death brinksmanship that you lived with as a child, particularly when you were younger.
	I'm happy your mom stopped drinking.
	I think that's great.
	I'm sorry that she chose such a cosmic asshole to be your father, but I am incredibly sorry for what happened to you as a child.
	I appreciate that, and thank you for having me on.
	This actually helped a lot.
	He says with a vague note of surprise.
	No, I appreciate that.
	Angel writes in and wants to ask, is the rise in popularity of video games and other forms of entertainment a sign of growing isolation in our culture?
	Interesting.
	Angel, are you there?
	Yes, hello.
	And first I want to thank you very much for The Tyranny of Illusion.
	Amazing, amazing book.
	Oh, which one?
	The Tyranny of Illusion.
	Oh, on truth.
	Well, thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	Not bad for three days.
	So, do you play video games yourself?
	Yes, I do.
	And I know video games usually, World of Warcraft, MMO, and usually which involves interaction with other people.
	That's what I'm searching for.
	Because games search to fill some gaps in the social interaction or to be independent or something like that.
	Each of us has a problem.
	I was sort of trying to explain this to my daughter because we're working on her reading.
	Like I want to get her to read in the window, right?
	In the reading window, which is sort of like four, four and a half to six, six and a half.
	You know, if you get it in there, it's pretty easy.
	It's like the language window from like 18 months to three and a half.
	So I want her to get in the window and she's basically like, well, why should I read?
	And it's a fair question.
	I mean, And I sort of tried to explain to her that, she said, well, when did you learn to read?
	And I said, well, I learned to read when I was, I remember learning how to read when I was about three, three and a half.
	I remember being very confused by the word R, A-R-E, because there's an R right in the middle, but you pronounce it R, but there's an A and an E, and I'm just like, who the hell invented this?
	This had to be some sort of government program.
	Actually, I didn't say that at the age of three and a half.
	That was four.
	So, I was sort of trying to explain to her that I learned to read pretty early because I was so bored, right?
	I mean, because when I was a kid, you know, we had In England, I don't remember any cartoons at all.
	I'm sure there were a few.
	In Canada, there were some more cartoons.
	There was sort of Sunday afternoons at 5 o'clock.
	There was like a Looney Tunes hour.
	But they were all cartoons you'd seen before, so they only had a certain amount of cachet to them, I suppose.
	And it was really boring.
	No TV, no tablets, no computers, no cell phones, all that kind of stuff.
	No virtual reality.
	We kind of had the...
	The 3D which involved actual 3D, not simulated 3D. And so I learned to read because I was so bored.
	Now, boredom is kind of hard to come by these days.
	I read the study the other day.
	It said the average parent spends 11 hours a day on their cell phone.
	Maybe they feel like a chicken.
	It's going to hatch into another cell phone.
	I don't know, but that's a whole lot of squatting on a digital piece of toast.
	And so for my daughter, she's got access to a sort of dizzying array of electronics.
	And so for her to learn how to read, it's not like...
	For me, learning how to read was like breaking out of prison.
	Like you just keep chiseling away through Rita Hayworth's two-dimensional image until you break free.
	And the amount of digital entertainment that is available...
	I remember when I first...
	I have Netflix, and I remember when I first ordered it, I was watching some Netflix on a computer attached to a TV. I got kind of tired.
	I went upstairs, and I watched a little bit more on an iPod Touch.
	And it's just weird, because it used to be so much work to load up.
	I used to have a Creative Zen Vision M, which I used to load up with movies.
	And that just took forever.
	Convert things like crazy, and it just took forever.
	Load them up.
	So the amount of digital entertainment that is available is just astonishing.
	And we really haven't even touched that much on video games, which are specifically designed, at least the best ones, to be like crack pellets, you know, like, here, here's another little reward.
	Ooh, just over the hill, there's that next reward.
	Ooh, there's another reward.
	And when you have the social aspect, like you're part of a guild or a group or a clan, I'm sorry?
	The Unfamous Achievements.
	Yeah, I mean, especially when you socialize it and so on.
	Now, when I was in my teens, early to mid-teens, I played Dungeons& Dragons, which I found to be just a fantastic game.
	And what a great amalgam of gambling and storytelling and imagination and socializing and all that.
	Now, it is true that a lot of entertainments are anti-philosophical.
	Not all and not at all times, right?
	It's sort of like candy is anti-health.
	I mean, unless you just have one once in a while, a piece of candy once in a while.
	And I found that...
	I mean, I sort of think back on my teenage years, and it's a little bit heartbreaking the degree to which my friends and I spent thousands of hours playing Dungeons& Dragons and not talking about important issues that matter to our lives.
	And again, I'm not saying, you know, I watch movies, I watch TV... I used to play video games.
	The only video games I play now is when I'm on the bike machine.
	I'll play tower defense games or something that just distracts me from how unbelievably boring being on a bike machine really is.
	It's a way of structuring your interactions with people or even interactions with yourself that We're good to go.
	And so as our thoughts have, as our perspectives and ideologies have multiplied, like we're not just one tribe who all believes the same thing anymore, as our perspectives and ideologies have multiplied and our philosophy or what's left of it has diminished, we have these unbridgeable gaps between us.
	And one of the ways that we fill those gaps in and pretend that they're not there is through entertainment.
	So...
	I think that it certainly can be addictive and it can be difficult and it can be dangerous.
	But part of me also says that anything which competes with one-on-one interaction is not a bad thing because it means that one-on-one interaction has to improve to compete with it.
	If that makes any sense.
	I recognize that in talking particularly to younger people, I'm competing with all the known digital brain sex massage electrons in the known and unknown universe.
	I need to compete with that so it causes me to up my game to know that I'm competing with all of that stuff.
	I think video games are fun.
	I think that they can displace other people and They certainly can make you feel like you're achieving something when you're not.
	Something like an attempt to self-medicate?
	Like with drugs?
	Yeah, but it's kind of like in religion, right?
	So in religion...
	You're given these goals, right?
	Say these Hail Marys, achieve this particular state of grace or achieve this particular inner state based on meditation or based on prayer.
	And so you're in someone else's structure and you're attempting to achieve things To pick up pieces of kibble and bread in the woods of somebody else's construction.
	And that I find to be quite a dangerous thing.
	Video games are essentially...
	I mean, you can build stuff.
	And I'm talking about the majority of people.
	They're not the level designers and so on.
	But even then, they're usually working within a structure like the Unreal 3 engine or something.
	Or the Crytek engine.
	Anyway.
	So, pursuing achievements in somebody else's...
	Mind space is not self-actualized behavior.
	You want to create your own goals and your own achievements based upon your own values and based upon philosophical values.
	So in school, you know, we're following the kibbles of, well, you've got to pass this, you've got to get this grade, you've got to pass this test, you've got to achieve X, Y, and Z, and then you move on to the next quote level.
	It's the same thing in religion.
	It's the same thing in most spiritual activities.
	It's the same thing in cults, another thing where other people give you the next step and then you work to achieve that or you succeed or fail based upon other people's judgment.
	And the same thing is true of video games in that it reinforces our desire to achieve goals set by others, if that makes any sense.
	And I think it can leave people feeling a little less powerful in their own lives, if that makes sense.
	Yes, I understand you perfectly.
	What do you think?
	I think right now I'm thinking more about the social value and more people work to achieve the same goal.
	Well, okay, but you're using the word social there, right?
	And what does that mean for you?
	For me it means interaction with others, working to achieve a goal set by others, yes.
	Right.
	I mean, you know, cover that ridge, I'll throw a grenade, you go get that goblin.
	You know, do you have any healing potions?
	That kind of stuff, right?
	That's not what people would normally mean by socializing.
	I mean, you wouldn't say that a bunch of soldiers attempting to take the northeast corner of Fallujah are socializing when they're chatting with each other or yelling at each other about their objectives and needs?
	Yes.
	Socializing to me is a bit more...
	You know, this is what I'm thinking about.
	These are my thoughts and feelings.
	These are my ideas.
	What do you think?
	It's a bit more open-ended.
	And of course, when you're playing a video game and when you're in a church, the call and answer, the structure of interactions are very predefined.
	And a lot of these structures have to do with helping people manage their social anxiety.
	People are very afraid in general.
	of unstructured social situations.
	You go into a room, you don't know what people are going to say, or even if it's people that you know, if somebody brings up a topic that is unfamiliar, off the beaten path, original, People get very anxious.
	This freight train of anxiety just charges like a whipping Tyrannosaurus tail through their hearts.
	And so we are hungry for structure because to communicate to another human being as an individual with your own thoughts is a huge risk for most people.
	The risk of rejection, the risk of not having anything to say.
	Like when I was in Amsterdam, I was talking with this very bright young woman Well, they were all very bright.
	I was talking about this young woman, and she was asking me about my master's thesis, and there was another woman who was sitting there listening to the talk.
	And I won't get into the details, but I talked about my master's thesis, and the other woman said, oh, that makes sense.
	And I said, oh, in what way does it make sense to you?
	I wasn't trying to challenge her.
	It just makes sense.
	She just got kind of tense and then she wandered off.
	She was obviously launching a particularly steaming pile of bullshit in my direction.
	But that's a great deal of anxiety that people have when you don't know what the other person is going to say.
	When it's not part of a train track, but you're kind of an open world person.
	I think they call it open world in video games when you can go and do anything.
	You're not just going through those doom corridors to the next gate portal or something.
	People are really terrified of unstructured social interactions, which is why whenever you get together with people, they say, let's get together and do X. You know, we're going to watch the game.
	We're going to play Frisbee golf.
	We're going to go golfing.
	We are going to play Scrabble or Monopoly.
	We're going to have a dinner party.
	A dinner party is a little more loosey-goosey, but generally you can't just say, let's get together.
	I say, and we'll do what?
	I don't know, just be.
	Just be with each other.
	Don't have to have plans when you're self-actualized because you don't need a next thing.
	You can just be where you are.
	It's that human being rather than human doing.
	But people are very scared of unstructured social interactions.
	And that's why there's this great desire for social interactions in particular parameters.
	That are defined by other people, because I assume that when you're playing World of Warcraft, you don't feel anxious about what to say next, right?
	No, not at all.
	Whereas how do you feel if you're just going to meet with a group of people in a coffee shop with no particular goal or topic?
	Well, it would be only cheap chat.
	If there is a subject I can talk about, I would, but not usually bring something up.
	Right.
	Right.
	And the reason for that, the reason that most people are anxious of social interactions is, you know, it's absolutely terrifying when you think about it, how little conversation there is in families growing up.
	You know, how little time there is to just sit and chat about whatever you like.
	I mean, I was saying to my daughter yesterday, I said, I love being at home with you, but I also love it when we go for a drive to go somewhere because we're in the car and we're just going to chat.
	And those, you know, that's what I live for as a parent is those times where I'm just having, and as a husband and as a friend, as a human being, what I live for is those times where you have just that unrelaxed hour or two or five where you can just chat.
	Like when I was in Amsterdam, we sat down, we basically talked from, About 12.30 in the afternoon until 11 o'clock at night.
	Everybody's just talking about what was on their mind.
	We had no structure.
	We had no agenda.
	We had no time frame.
	And that, to me, that's everything else is just, you know, I go to the grocery store so that I could eat, so I could sit down and have a conversation.
	You know, I take a crack so I can wipe myself and go and have a great and wash my hands and then go have a great conversation.
	Like, to me, that is the whole point.
	But it used to drive me nuts in my family.
	We just sort of wander around these tiny little revolving doors of the same topics over and over and over again.
	And nobody ever talked about any damn thing in particular.
	And anytime anything of any importance came up, everyone got tense and volatile and it usually ended in a conflict.
	And I just, I find that stuff terrifying.
	So yeah, I think that video games, they do serve people's needs for very structured interactions.
	Where you go, and you know how to dress, and you know what you're going to be talking about.
	When you go to church, you know how to dress, you know what the ceremony is going to be, you know what people are going to talk about.
	It's very prescribed areas of conversation, even confessionals for Catholics and so on.
	Political, when you go to a political meeting or whatever, you know what you're going to talk about.
	It's all very structured.
	And I think if we could find ways to let go of that structure...
	We would have a lot more connection as human beings.
	But I think that's hard for people to do, right?
	Yes, it is sometimes.
	But this also could represent a subject for connection or making new connections.
	Like when all those gaming conventions, let's say BlizzCon, Comic-Con, or DreamHack, where there are championships and all those kinds of things.
	Well, but do you?
	Do you make connections where you can talk about topics outside of those areas?
	Well, yeah, with my friends, I usually talk about this and other things of school related.
	Yeah, I can make connections with other things.
	Okay.
	Well, good.
	Yeah.
	So, I mean, this may not then apply to you as much, but You know, there's a huge amount of energy in the world and a huge amount of profit.
	You know, most of the profit in the world is shielding people from their insecurities and in general provoking More insecurities, right?
	So people have social anxieties and you can create entire structures and tribes and cultures and religions and online gaming communities and Comic Cons and Trekkers and Potterheads and all of that.
	This is all so that people...
	Don't have to face the social anxiety of unstructured interactions.
	And it's the same thing.
	You can make a massive amount of profit from shielding people from insecurities about their bodies or about their worth, about their looks, about their hair, about their abs, whatever.
	There's a huge amount of profit to be made, shielding people from their insecurities.
	And I think that video games have something to do with that, as do Dungeons and Dragons and other religions mentioned.
	Is there anything else you want to talk about with that?
	Does that sort of make sense?
	Yeah.
	I also wanted to ask, how do you deal with emotional blackmail and ignorance, mostly?
	Emotional blackmail?
	What do you mean?
	Well, what I mean, I mean that when parents, well, they say, we raised you, we love you, we made this food for you, eat it, come eat it, now we'll be sad, we'll cry if you don't, we'll be angry, we'll be, all those kinds of things.
	Or you don't respect us, you don't...
	Oh, so like the old joke where the Italian mother says, eat this pasta or I'll kill you, and the Jewish mother says, eat this pasta or I'll kill myself.
	All right.
	I think it's just honesty.
	Honesty is the best way to deal with most things, you know, where there's not a direct threat to your existence or the existence of someone you love.
	You know, if somebody wants you to come and eat, I just say, I don't feel like it.
	You know, that's, again, I'm learning a lot about assertiveness from my daughter, which is one of the reasons why I'm able to be a bit more assertive in the show.
	She always said, hey, would you like to have some lunch?
	No, I'm not hungry.
	Well, what am I going to do?
	Am I going to tell her she is hungry?
	Am I going to tell her she has to eat and all that?
	You know, I mean, we went to go and look for tadpoles today.
	And, you know, I knew we were going to go into the woods on a long walk.
	And I said, you know, you should really pee before we go.
	And she's like, well, why?
	I said, well, we're going to be away from the washroom for a long time.
	We're going to be in the woods and you probably don't want to pee in the woods and stuff.
	And she's like, oh, okay, fine.
	And she peed and then we went off.
	But you have to make that case, right?
	And if she just doesn't want to do something, she'll say, well, I don't feel like doing that.
	I don't really feel like doing that.
	I don't really want to do this.
	And that's, you know, so if your parent says, you know, come over and eat the food, you say, I'm not hungry.
	I don't feel like it.
	I don't really feel like it.
	Now, people will generally then say, why?
	Why don't you feel like it?
	And that's, you know, and what they're trying to do is they're trying to change you, right?
	They're trying to reach into your brain and start changing and messing around with all the dials, right?
	So my daughter does this, right?
	So, yeah, so she says, Daddy, let's play X game.
	And I'll say, I don't really feel like it.
	And I say, well, why don't you feel like it?
	And I say, well, I don't know.
	It just doesn't really appeal to me at the moment.
	Well, how come?
	Why?
	And she wants to know the why so that she can change the reason, right?
	And then she can get what she wants.
	So that's sort of seeming curiosity that basically is, you know, Manipulation 101.
	And it's the same thing with salespeople, right?
	Buy this printer.
	I don't want to.
	Well, why not, right?
	You know, I'm happy with my existing printer.
	Well, what does your existing printer do?
	Can I do X, Y, and Z? So it's not curiosity because they want to know what you're thinking and feeling.
	It's curiosity because they want to change what you're thinking and feeling to be more in accordance with their desires and wishes.
	So I think just be honest.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I prefer not to interact with them at all because they're abusive.
	If they know what I like, what I prefer, they will mock that and they will basically mock me and all that kind of things.
	I'd rather not interact with them at all.
	Right.
	Right.
	And do you not want to have a conversation with them while you say, I'm taking a break from the family?
	I try to.
	They keep saying, there's only family.
	You can't trust anyone.
	There's nowhere you can go.
	Who will take you?
	Who will what?
	I mean, they didn't prepare me for life at all.
	Right.
	Oh, so they're the people who say, who is going to treat you as well as we treat you?
	And sort of my answer to my family was, well, God, I hope no one treats me like my family of origin.
	Oh, wouldn't that be a great life?
	But I think it's okay to be...
	To be an irreducible primary, and that's a weird way of putting it, but it's something that I sort of think of from time to time.
	So if you say to me, Steph, come over, and I say, well, I just don't really feel like it right now.
	I say, oh, how come?
	It's like, well, I just don't really feel like it.
	I don't know why.
	Well, why do you think?
	It's like, I don't know.
	I just, I just, I don't feel like it.
	Sorry, I just don't feel like it at the moment.
	Well, is there some particular reason why?
	I just, you can just be an irreducible primary.
	You don't have to explain why you do or don't want to do something.
	Hey, do you want to go and see Rio 2 again?
	I really don't.
	Well, how come?
	Well, it's a misogynistic film, a misandric film, which is terrible on men.
	I don't feel like seeing that movie again.
	Well, how come?
	It's like, well, I just don't.
	So you can have these irreducible primary feelings that are like gravity.
	Right?
	Like...
	If somebody says, jump off a 10-foot wall, and I say, I don't really want to, people say, well, why?
	It's gravity.
	I don't want to hurt myself, right?
	And you can be an irreducible primary like gravity, right?
	Come over for dinner.
	I don't really feel like it right now.
	Well, when will you feel like it?
	I don't know.
	I don't know what I'm going to feel tomorrow.
	Well, how come you don't want to come over?
	I don't know.
	I just don't want to.
	You can be inert.
	You can be inert and opaque.
	And that is a great way to be assertive because you're just basically pushing back all the pseudo-curiosity that is coming your way that basically is just around dismantling any resistance you have to what the other person wants you to do.
	So that would be my suggestion to just consistently say it's a broken record technique of negotiation.
	And basically you just say, no, I just don't really feel like it.
	How come?
	I don't know.
	I just don't really feel like it right now.
	Well, when might you change your mind?
	I don't know.
	I don't know what I'm going to feel tomorrow.
	It's just a broken record, Ray, of just saying my emotion of not wanting to do X is an irreducible primary.
	You know, why is there gravity?
	I don't know, but there sure is.
	Why do you feel this way?
	I don't know, but I do.
	Right?
	And that's not exactly RTR, but it's a way of being assertive when people are trying to unpack your emotions in order to get at your levers, if that makes sense.
	Does that help at all?
	Yes, I tried this technique, actually.
	I didn't know it was called like this, but they become violent when they don't get an answer from your...
	I don't confirm with what they want, and...
	That kind of thing.
	Okay, so you mean they become verbally abusive?
	More or less.
	More usually.
	And is this on the phone?
	No, like when we speak or...
	What do you mean exactly?
	Well, in what circumstance are they...
	Verbally abusive or violent, as you say.
	Like, are you on the phone?
	Are you on Skype?
	Are you in their house?
	I mean, are you on the bus?
	Are you parachuting together?
	What is happening at that point?
	Well, my father, whenever he can find a chance to disagree with me or I disagree with him, he always gets verbally abusive or like that.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	I just asked you a question, but I'm quite confused.
	So you say you don't want to have any interactions with them?
	Yes.
	So under what circumstances are you having interactions with them?
	I'm just a bit confused.
	You know, it's like me saying, I never ever want to go to Paris.
	Paris is the last place I ever want to go.
	And then I call you up and say, hey, I'm calling from Paris.
	Right?
	So if you don't want to have interactions with them, then under what circumstances can they be verbally abusive to you?
	Under the circumstances, when they say they enter my room, even though I tell them not to, they begin screaming.
	Yes, I'm 18 years old and I live in Europe, Romania.
	It's not quite like America.
	No, I got it.
	I got it.
	Okay.
	Right, so then you don't have privacy and it's their home, right?
	Yes.
	Well, I don't know any way to maintain emotional boundaries with abusive people while you're living with them.
	I've never found a way to be able to do that because you make requests, you last for space, and they just kind of ignore that, right?
	They just do what they want.
	Yes.
	Yeah, so if you want to have boundaries from people who are abusive, I think physical distance is a good place to start.
	I don't know, you know, if you make requests for, you know, don't barge into my room unannounced, don't wake me up in the middle of the night, don't play bagpipes at dawn, and they just keep doing those things, you know, if people don't listen to reasonable requests, if they don't actually listen to what you want, I don't know what to tell you other than that that's not going to change while you're living there.
	It seems unlikely.
	Yes, but I have the fear.
	I live in this kind of society.
	I mean, not just them.
	I feel like everyone around is like them.
	Even though I know it's not possible.
	But in the close proximity of me is like, oh, it's like that.
	I mean, we've been to a family therapy, something like that.
	And I was talking to this woman and she was like, yes, I understand.
	Yes, go on, please.
	But she wasn't feeling.
	I mean, she wasn't truly understanding me.
	And once I told her, there was an incident about last year when I had an argument with my mother and I wanted to spend some time alone and she came, I was basically staying with my back on the door so she wouldn't enter and she sat down and began crying and then my father came, I think she drank something and When he saw my mother crying, he said, why are you making your mother crying?
	Why are you making her sick?
	Because she sits on the ground.
	And basically, he began to be nervous.
	He ordered me to open the door.
	And if not, he would...
	Well, my door has glasses.
	And he would punch the glass.
	And that's what he did.
	He broke the glass on top of me and my mother.
	Gosh.
	I mean, that's incredibly terrifying.
	I'm so sorry.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	When I said this to the therapist, she went something like, oh, come on, it wasn't such big.
	The shards weren't so big, they couldn't really hurt you.
	I mean, that was something that traumatized me, and you say it wasn't a big deal.
	Oh, that's what the therapist said.
	The therapist said that basically you're overreacting?
	Something like that.
	Yes.
	Well, I tell you that's some bad fucking therapy.
	Yes.
	I'm not a therapist, but that is some bad therapy.
	I don't think a therapist is ever supposed to say, oh, you're just overreacting.
	It can't have been that bad.
	I mean, that's just...
	I don't have to be a doctor to know that you don't do a tracheotomy with a chainsaw.
	And I'm really sorry that was your experience.
	And many others like this.
	I mean, one time, and I hated that they always tried to make me like, yeah, that happened in the past, laugh about it.
	I mean, you should laugh about these things.
	I mean, those emotional traumas I went through, and I really hate them.
	And they tell me to laugh about them, to forget them.
	Like, they have no more responsibility for what they've done.
	Right.
	Right.
	I'm sorry.
	And you know, I've got to tell you, It's very strange to me.
	I just did an interview with a researcher, the guy who did the spanking study, or basically it was a study on parents yelling at their kids.
	It turned out to be a spanking study.
	And he said that, you know, sort of saying, well, why are people having such a tough time stopping spanking?
	And he said it's basically one of the main reasons is because parents don't evaluate what they're doing, right?
	I think it's called in...
	Psychological circles is called the observing ego.
	I don't know if you've ever had this situation where you're basically in some environment and some part of you looks at yourself in that environment or doing something and says, what am I doing here?
	Like, how did I end up in this situation?
	What am I doing here?
	Maybe that's the beginning of the end of destructive addictions or whatever, right?
	But I remember that happened in some relationship or other years ago.
	And I basically just looked in the mirror like, what am I doing here?
	I mean, this is not the place to be.
	What am I doing here?
	And it happened once or twice in the business world as well.
	It's sort of an observing ego where you say, is what I'm doing working?
	The goals that I want to have in my life, are they being achieved?
	And one of the reasons that spanking and this kind of aggression and abuse continues...
	It's because parents, a lot of parents, they don't seem to have this observing ego.
	Like, if I was a dad and it had gotten to the point where I was threatening to punch through the glass of my son's door, I think, I'm pretty sure, part of me would look at that and say, dude, not right, not the way.
	There's a Chekhov play called The Seagull, where this young man, Constantine, is verbally abusive.
	And this older man, who's a doctor, who's kind of gentle, who was played by Rick Roberts, who was definitely the best actor in my class.
	And he said when Constantine, the young artist, was yelling at this woman, he said, not right, not the way.
	And that was just five words.
	And I remember I watched that every night.
	It was like the way he delivered.
	He was a great actor.
	Still is, I guess.
	And this observing ego, this like, okay, I'm spanking my children.
	Is it working?
	Is it achieving?
	But they're just like robots, literally like hitting robots.
	Bam, bam, bam, bam.
	Yelling, abuse, threats, punching, hitting, spanking.
	I mean, and it's like, is it actually achieving what you want?
	Is this why you had children?
	Are you getting what you want?
	Is it working?
	I mean, spanking doesn't work.
	Verbal abuse doesn't work.
	Threats don't work.
	They will gain you immediate compliance, but the studies are very clear that within 10 minutes, within 10 minutes, children are back to misbehaving.
	It doesn't work.
	I mean, the average spanker in his study was spanking almost a thousand times a year.
	And they do this into the early teens.
	You know, thousands and thousands and thousands of hits and not one goddamn time did these parents ever say to themselves, hey, is this working?
	It's completely bizarre.
	It's completely bizarre to not have this observing ego.
	I don't know if it's a function of intelligence.
	I don't know if it's a function of self-knowledge.
	I don't know if it's a function of empathy.
	Because you're kind of empathizing with yourself.
	You're looking at yourself like you were somebody else and saying, is this who I want to be?
	So, I just wanted to point, I mean, I'm so sorry that your parents are, like, yelling, manipulating, threatening, punching, threatening to punch holes through walls and stuff, and there's no part of them that appears, you know, peels out and orbits themselves and saying, hey, is this shit working?
	You know, is this, are we getting what we want?
	Does this actually work at all?
	For them, yes, because they are getting more of their actions.
	They are convincing themselves.
	They are doing something moral.
	They are doing the right thing.
	I tried to explain the values you present of morality and this to them.
	They don't get it.
	It's simply their brain is not wired that way.
	Would the best thing be to get away from them?
	Well, I can't tell you that.
	I mean, I've just met you, but I can certainly say this.
	So we're talking about people who are looking at something and not saying, is it working?
	Is it not?
	Is it achieving what I want?
	Now, if what you're doing, and this is, I don't mean, look, everybody who listens to this show has at least an IQ of 120.
	I mean, at least.
	I would probably argue even higher.
	So I always assume that my listeners are very intelligent.
	Yeah.
	With the exception of the occasional girlfriend who seems to show up on the show.
	But I assume that my listeners are very intelligent.
	So the fact that I need to tell this to you, I apologize for in advance because it's going to make you sound less intelligent than you are.
	But you know how we're saying, well, why don't parents notice that what they're doing isn't working and change their behavior?
	You know, most people, I'll tell you what...
	You can't see the video.
	This is what most people look like to me, right?
	I'm standing in this new studio and So there's a door three feet to the left, and people are just walking into the wall over and over and over again.
	They're just walking into the wall.
	They're reaching out like this.
	There's going to be a door there.
	They just walk into the wall.
	They take a step back.
	They walk into the wall.
	And it doesn't fucking matter how bloody their nose gets.
	It doesn't matter whether they're spitting out teeth.
	It doesn't matter whether they have black eyes.
	It doesn't matter whether their nipples are shaving like a Boston Marathon sprinter.
	It doesn't matter.
	They just keep doing the same thing.
	And I'm like screaming, there's a door three goddamn feet to the left.
	Stop hurting yourself.
	But they are literally robots, wall-hitting robots who can't grope three feet to the left and use the door that they think is right in front of them, but which the empirical evidence of their broken nose keeps telling them is not.
	Now, don't ever, ever, ever be one of those broken robots.
	Be incredibly sensitive to the biofeedback mechanism of, is my shit working?
	Is the stuff I'm doing working?
	Is it working?
	Right?
	I used to be a gold prospector and a gold panner and a claim staker way back in the day.
	You didn't just walk off into the woods fully confident.
	No matter what.
	You're always checking your compass.
	You're checking your compass.
	You're checking your map.
	Because you wander off into the bush.
	I mean, you're dead in two days, right?
	I mean, if you go the wrong way.
	And so don't ever be stuck in repetition, right?
	Trauma, a dysfunction, screwed-up-edness, it replicates through a repetition which cannot see itself as repetition.
	Spank, spank, spank, yell, yell, yell, abuse, abuse, abuse, threaten, threaten, threaten.
	It's a repetition that doesn't see itself as repetition.
	You can't course correct the first time you do something.
	First time you swing at a golf, and then after that, if people see how you swing, they can say do it differently or whatever.
	But you can't really course correct on the first instance, and trauma replicates because it's incredibly repetitive, but people do not experience the repetition.
	They don't have the continuity of longer, larger-term goals and comparing what they're doing with what they want.
	Don't be one of those people.
	If there is one thing that is the difference between happiness and misery in life, it is the capacity to evaluate and learn from mistakes.
	Your parents, I'm sorry to say, it sounds like they're doing all this tragic stuff that is repetitive and destructive and is not achieving what they want, right?
	Not at all.
	And you are saying, well, how do I... Get boundaries, how do I get reasonable behavior, how do I get better relationships with and so on, right?
	But you, I assume, have been trying for quite some time to improve relations with your parents, right?
	Yes.
	How's it working?
	For a moment, they seem like they understand and they care, but a day after, it's back to whatever it was before.
	And how many times has that happened?
	Well, about since I was 13 years old, I tried to...
	I mean, I began to reason.
	It's just logic that told me that what they were doing was wrong.
	And most likely from when I was 15 years old.
	14.
	Okay, so they were dysfunctional, I assume, from when you can remember.
	But for the last four or five years, you've been trying to improve things, and there's these brief flashes of change, and then, right, they just pop right back to you.
	And also, the worst thing they could have done for me.
	So, when we finish school, we get an exam to determine at what high school we go.
	We can choose where we want to go, but we need to have the grade and stuff like that.
	I was interested in mathematics and informatics, basically.
	And I went to such a high school that had this profile, and it wasn't the best one.
	It wasn't the glory of the town, something like that.
	And I met there people with which I was able to bond, like a true family.
	I was able to understand them, true friends.
	And when I was in my...
	Second year of high school, at the middle of the year, my parents decided to transfer me to another high school, to the one better, the better one, which they all went.
	And in there, in the class, they transferred me.
	I have absolutely no friends, no one.
	I was able to stay at my desk the whole day and no one would say anything to me the whole day.
	And I don't know, it was like cutting an arm basically.
	I lost the empathy with others, the sympathy, the interaction, the friends, the goddamn life I lost.
	That really closed the relationship between me and them.
	I told them I don't want to.
	I don't know what to say about this.
	Right, so it's not working.
	Whatever you're doing, the therapy is not working to improve the relationship, right?
	So be aware when something isn't working, right?
	Right.
	Be aware when something is working and change your behavior.
	You know, I mean, when you get into philosophy, what is generally revealed is that determinism is true for everyone who's not a philosopher.
	It doesn't just feel true.
	It is true.
	Without self-knowledge, everything is Groundhog Day.
	Without self-knowledge, everything is the same thing over and over again.
	And without self-knowledge, without self-empathy, human beings lack the capacity to stop being surprised.
	This is very important to understand.
	Without self-knowledge, without self-empathy, and empathy towards others, human beings...
	Lack the capacity to stop being surprised.
	Right?
	So, when you're in an abusive relationship, the bad behavior, if you lack self-knowledge and you're in an abusive relationship, the bad behavior of the other person always comes as a shock, as a surprise.
	You get out of abusive relationships when you are no longer surprised by the bad behavior.
	Bush lied.
	Kids died.
	Obama said that he was going to have the most transparent administration.
	Now it's the least transparent.
	These conservatives didn't shrink the free market.
	These Democrats didn't expand social freedoms.
	The EEC is corrupt.
	Fiat currency causes inflation.
	Wisdom, the beginning of wisdom really, is when people stop being surprised by repetitive things and they look for patterns rather than recoil emotionally.
	And they say, my capacity to continue to be surprised by the utterly predictable is a tattoo of immaturity on my heart.
	If you've had five years of a consistent kind of interaction with some people, Well, how much information do you need to get a pattern?
	You have to change what you're doing.
	Anyway, I'm so sorry.
	We do have to get on to the next callers, but I really appreciate you calling in, and I'm very sorry for your situation.
	I certainly wish you the best.
	There are better people in the world.
	Don't assume that you're...
	Stuck in Madame Tussaud's wax museum from hell without any exit, or that you'll break free of it into a world full of wax people, there is a way of getting to a better place, and I'm very sorry about where you are at the moment.
	How can I find the way?
	I'm sorry, that's another big question.
	I'm afraid I have to move on to another caller.
	We've already been 45 minutes on this call, but thank you very much for calling in.
	Perhaps we can reschedule for another time.
	Mike, who do we have next?
	Alright, up next is Joel.
	Joel writes in and says, my wife and I moved from Vancouver to Paraguay last year in order to improve our lives and enrich the home experience for our two-year-old son.
	I'd like to know what your thoughts are on the pros and cons of such a move for our son and ourselves.
	Do you think this type of move was too much of a risk, or are we teaching our son how to live by your values and make big jumps?
	I'm already annoyed.
	Did he really write my values?
	Joel, did you write my values, like Steph's values?
	You did.
	No, no, no.
	I meant to say our values, my values, maybe.
	But they're not your values.
	No, do you have my physics?
	Your physics?
	How do I, Joel, how do I design an airplane according to your physics?
	Well, okay.
	Let's just say this.
	My values are, on a lot of planes, very similar to a lot of your values.
	I mean, heck, geez, you just said that you're going to the International Men's Conference with a whole bunch of people that I really find to be intelligent and I admire.
	I think what I meant by that was that I want to...
	Give this sort of, I don't know, I think of your life as a, my life, I've got to stop with this, my, your.
	I think of my life as a story that I'm constantly writing.
	No, your life, your life is fair.
	I mean, you're not talking, you're not saying that there's a personal universal, that's all.
	Values are universal, right?
	And so, anyway, go on.
	Okay, so essentially what we did is my wife was – she was actually the breadwinner when we were living back in Canada.
	And we decided that later in the period of when she was on her maternity leave that we may explore the idea of expatriating ourselves and going somewhere that would allow ourselves to – I'm a freelance writer and I run a few websites of my own and we kind of thought to ourselves maybe what we can do is we can find a place in the world that can expand our horizons,
	we can learn a new language, meet new cultures and at the same time spend more time with our children.
	We only have our one son right now, he's two.
	But, you know, I've listened to so many of your podcasts about parenting, especially about the value of those first four years.
	And we take that to heart.
	That's something that we had discussed before our son was born, how important it was to us.
	And I mean, ultimately, I think the reason why I wanted to reach out to you is that you're kind of with the first caller talking about parenting.
	What was it?
	The observer ego.
	And there's sometimes where I look at it and I go, what are we doing here?
	But the other days, we just have to look at our son and we can obviously tell that we've made the right decision because he doesn't have to go into daycare.
	My wife doesn't have to work during the day, although we have to have that constant conversation about what do we do with her career as time goes on because she worked very hard to get into it, whereas mine is of necessity.
	And so essentially, I'm trying to find out what the pros and cons are of everything.
	I mean, I don't want to be too, too broad, but at the same time...
	Wait, wait, wait, wait.
	Okay, hang on.
	Hang on.
	Hang on.
	I can only assume that in your writing, you're slightly more concise and focused.
	No, no.
	The pros and cons of everything?
	Seriously?
	I mean, you've got to give me a question that I can hang some kind of hook into, right?
	My son woke us up at 4.30 this morning.
	I apologize.
	I'm not...
	At the sharpest I should be, but okay, so what we mean is that whenever we make these decisions, we do look at the pros and cons.
	So, I mean, for example, with moving to Paraguay, it is a 21-hour minimum travel day to get back to Vancouver to see our family, and my father has multiple sclerosis, so when my parents came down to visit us, Paraguay is not necessarily a A wheelchair-friendly country, so it was very difficult for him to make that visit here.
	The pros are when we get to live in a nicer climate, we get to spend a lot more time with our son, we actually can afford to have help around the house so that we're not too spent by the end of the day.
	Ultimately, we look at it and go, is it good to stay this far away?
	As long as we can do the best that we can for our son and for ourselves, or is there value being around the elders of our family and being around people who speak our language and all those kind of things?
	I just wanted to put it out to you because we made this decision Based on the fact that we really wanted to have one of us home at all times with our son.
	And also, too, I mean, I work from home, so I'm actually able to get you down for lunch.
	I've got to ask you again.
	Can you please get to a question that has something to do with philosophy?
	I mean, this amount of information is not going to help.
	You need to get me to a question.
	Sure, sure.
	Okay.
	Do you see a net benefit of dipping yourself into a completely different culture?
	I don't know what net benefit means.
	Is there a benefit?
	Of course.
	Are there costs?
	Of course.
	I don't know what net benefit means.
	In other words, should you be in Paraguay or should you be in Vancouver?
	I don't know how that could be a philosophical question, but I'm certainly happy to hear how it could be.
	I mean, the fact that you're spending time with your kid is fantastic.
	You know, the fact that you're distant from your dad who needs help obviously is a negative.
	You know, I don't know how to weigh the pros and cons in any objective fashion.
	It's sort of like, should I like vanilla or chocolate ice cream, you know, to put it in?
	It's not just a matter of Paraguay being a completely different culture, but I think that the philosophical question for us is, are we doing the right thing by pulling ourselves to a place that we can afford to have one person stay at home all day?
	Or if we were in Vancouver, both of us have to work to sustain and our kid has to be raised by other people.
	So where does your son go when you're in Vancouver?
	Well, when we were in Vancouver, my wife was still on her maternity leave, so we...
	Okay, help me out a little here.
	Come on, let's move this along.
	No, no, no.
	If you move back to Vancouver, where is your son going to go?
	Unfortunately, I guess he would either have to go to daycare or I would probably drop off of what I do and stay home with him myself.
	All right.
	So then if you want to be close to your dad and one of you can still be at home, then...
	Vancouver seems to make sense, right?
	I guess so.
	I guess so.
	I mean, but at the same time, I mean, we really do like the idea of, you know, like there's some benefit for a child and for ourselves to be immersed and to learn another language, and that's good for brain development.
	Okay, so I see where this is going to go.
	Okay, no, so we're going to talk about something else now.
	And we're going to talk about what you really need to talk about.
	I'm sorry, what was your name again?
	Joel.
	Joel.
	Okay, Joel.
	Okay, so the way it works is you give me a massive amount of confusing information.
	And there's nothing wrong with that, right?
	I mean, and there's no way I can possibly answer, right?
	And then you say, well, if we go back to Vancouver, then my son, you know, we won't be able to stay home.
	And then I say, well, where's he going to be?
	He said, well, I could stay home, right?
	So then if you want to have a parent staying home and you want to be with your father or have access to your father, then Vancouver is the place to be.
	Then as soon as I say Vancouver, you start talking about the positives of Paraguay.
	And then as soon as I talk about the positives of Paraguay, you're going to start talking about the positives of Vancouver, right?
	I know exactly how this is going to go.
	And we're going to go insane, right?
	And you are going insane because you can't come to any kind of decision, right?
	Well, I think insane is probably a little bit of an overstatement.
	Well, okay, but it's a big decision, right?
	Where you're going to live and whether your son is going to have access to your father and vice versa, right?
	Well, that's one thing.
	But also, too, as a parent, don't you think that there's some value in instilling your kids with new sense of adventure and seeing other cases?
	You are going to try and give me an aneurysm, right?
	Because as soon as somebody says, in isolation, don't you think there is some value in something that is obviously positive, it makes me insane.
	I'm not saying it's you, I'm just saying it makes me insane, right?
	Right.
	I mean, if I kidnap you and I put you in the Amazon jungle and I say, well, isn't it cool to have an adventure where you're not sure exactly what's going to happen next?
	No context, right?
	Of course it's important and cool to go to another culture.
	Fine!
	You know, but that's not the issue, right?
	Anything you say.
	It's good to have your son be with his grandfather if they love each other, right?
	It's good to be in a nice warm climate.
	The Vancouver healthcare system sucks.
	It's good that you can work less.
	There's pluses and minuses to everything, right?
	Yeah.
	But as soon as I start talking about the pluses of one area, you're going to tell me the pluses of another.
	And as soon as I say, I know how this works, right?
	I get it.
	I get it.
	There's another bonus.
	Okay, let's put another variable into the mix, which we cancel.
	I will, I will, I will.
	Because my income is from outside of Paraguay, I don't have to pay an income tax anymore.
	And I don't have to support a tax system anymore.
	And then there's a part of me that feels like if I go back, I'm going against my own values of supporting a tax system that I don't believe in when I've actually found a way To not necessarily have to support that anymore.
	You are an absolute expert at not enjoying things.
	You are like evil octo machine arm backs Batman fighting expert villain at not enjoying things.
	No, that's not the case.
	I mean...
	I don't know.
	Let me make the case.
	Okay.
	You really wanted to move to Paraguay to the point where you uprooted your family and got there, right?
	Yeah.
	And how long have you been there now?
	Just over a year.
	Okay.
	And now you're really thinking about heading back, right?
	Well, it's...
	I would prefer to stay, but I mean, my wife is wanting to get back into her career and there's some family...
	Distance there, and that's where we have this quandary of, you know, should we stay or should we go, the clash song, you know?
	Right, so you're not particularly enjoying Paraguay because you may be going back to Vancouver.
	And I guarantee you, when you go back to Vancouver, there'll be things that you hugely miss, like after the 19th week of straight rain, there'll be things that you really miss about Paraguay and crushed in a 60% tax bracket, right?
	I love Paraguay.
	I was just worried that I'm causing, you know, like that I'm...
	My values of not wanting to pay taxes, not wanting to support a bad system, being able to stay with my son were over the top, whereas what if my son gets sick and I need the healthcare system?
	That's the only reason why we were—and my wife, she did bring up about her career.
	Okay, hang on.
	Okay.
	Joel, see, this is why it's impossible to have this conversation.
	Okay.
	We've got taxes.
	We've got your father.
	We've got whether Paraguay is wheelchair accessible.
	We have the weather.
	We have staying at home versus not staying at home.
	There's so many variables that there's no possible way to give you an example.
	Or any kind of solution.
	Because I guarantee you, whatever solution I give me, you're going to give me the opposite case.
	Well, I hope that's not the case, but if that is the case...
	Okay, you know that there's no objective answer to this, right?
	I just...
	I wanted to hear from you about values of...
	Wait, no, I just asked you a question, right?
	Don't filibuster me.
	Don't filibuster me, brother.
	I just asked you a question.
	Can you repeat the question?
	You know there's no objective answer to this, right?
	I guess so.
	Well, no, is there?
	Tell me if I'm wrong.
	This isn't physics.
	There's never going to be a perfect answer.
	You're right.
	No, I didn't say perfect.
	What did I say?
	Objective answer.
	Right, because that's a straw man.
	I mean, how many perfect answers are there to anything in life, right?
	Okay, so you have to listen.
	If we're going to have a conversation, then you have to listen to me.
	I've tried to listen to you and give you feedback, but you need to listen to me and answer what I'm asking, okay?
	Or you don't have to.
	I can move on to another caller, right?
	But I need you to answer what I'm asking, okay?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	And the question was, is there an objective answer to this?
	Yeah, well, I said there's no objective answer, but you can disagree if you want.
	I guess I don't have anything else of value to add to this.
	Oh, please give me a yes, no.
	Is there an objective answer to whether you should be in Paraguay or Vancouver?
	There's never going to be an objective answer.
	Just give me a yes or no, my God, man.
	Is there an objective answer as to whether you should be in Paraguay or Vancouver?
	No.
	Okay.
	Why is that so hard?
	This is like the 10th time I've asked that.
	Why is that hard for you to admit that?
	I'm genuinely curious.
	Why is that hard to admit?
	Because being here or there to me is a big decision no matter where I choose to go.
	No, because it doesn't matter whether it's a bigger decision or not.
	It's a factual question, right?
	Whether it's a big decision or not.
	It's irrelevant.
	I'm actually trying to help you make a decision here.
	I really am, just in my own annoying way, which hopefully will be helpful.
	I think it will.
	Right?
	So why is it hard for you to say there's no objective answer?
	You have a resistance to that because you filibuster, you misinterpret the question, you give me straw man, you don't answer the question, you change the subject.
	Why is it hard?
	Because we're trying to get clarity on something here.
	The first thing we need to get on is your decision-making process as a whole.
	Why is it hard for you to say there's no objective answer to this question?
	Because that's an easy question, right?
	Yeah, because I like to overthink things.
	That's why.
	That's why there's not going to be an objective answer to this.
	Okay, so you have trouble with decisions because you can't lay out the boundaries.
	You can't get the basics.
	Everything becomes immensely complicated and contradictory and weighing things.
	And as soon as you walk up one end of the seesaw, another brick comes down to the other end.
	So this is why you can't make decisions like this.
	Yep, that's why.
	Okay, so where does this habit come from?
	It's self-paralysis.
	This is what is fundamentally a self-paralysis.
	Well, I mean, I wouldn't call it paralysis because, I mean, I made the move.
	And now you might be moving back!
	I'm just wondering whether I should or not, or whether I've made the right decision.
	I guess I shouldn't have to think about that if I had obviously made the right decision.
	I mean, I like it here, but there's pros and cons.
	But if I go into more detail, you're just going to...
	No, I'm not trying to...
	Okay, where did it come from as a habit?
	If you don't like the term self-paralysis, that's fine.
	I mean, I feel paralyzed.
	I feel like I can't find my way through the fog of what's being talked about, but that may be just me.
	Right?
	So, why is it hard, right?
	To know that it's a subjective decision is one of the first and most important things in any decision-making matrix, right?
	Right, right.
	Right?
	So, if somebody says, Steph, I really want you to join me in this bank robbery.
	Right?
	Called being the chairman of the Federal Reserve, right?
	Now there's an objective decision that I can make.
	It's a nasty thing to do.
	I'm not going to do it, right?
	Right.
	Now if somebody says to me, would you like a scuba vacation or a mountain climbing vacation?
	There's not an objective, moral, clear answer to that, right?
	Right.
	There's just one or the other.
	Yeah, if somebody says, Steph, I've got a car that when you turn the ignition, it explodes.
	Would you like it?
	And I say, well, no.
	That's clear, right?
	Right.
	So, the first thing to figure out when you've got a big complex decision is, is there an objective answer?
	Well, you're right.
	Yeah.
	Obviously, I mean, I could sit and I can weigh the pros and cons over and over again for – off of your show, of course, for forever and probably come up with one decision or the other and I'll still probably never be happy with it because I guess I'm trying to make these decisions with different hats on.
	Right, Jill, Jill, Jill.
	Did I say that you were very good at not being happy?
	I'm happy.
	No, what are you talking about?
	Then you said, well, whatever decision, I'll be sure not to be happy with it, right?
	Well, I think the part that's difficult is that the decision as a father, as a son, as a husband, and as my own self, as what I enjoy, all of those things take different value courses.
	And...
	I didn't like being in Vancouver.
	What is different value courses?
	Value courses?
	Courses of value?
	What I mean by that is, I mean, okay, if I choose to go on a set of values of Joel the libertarian who wants to homeschool his kid and wants to, you know, be around as much as possible, that's one set of values.
	But then there's like Joel the son who wants to make sure that his family is doing okay, that they get a chance to see their grandson growing up That's going to have a whole different set of values behind it when a decision is made off of that set of values.
	And then there's also the husband who wants to make sure that he provides a very nice lifestyle for his family while at the same time making sure that his wife is happy, his son is happy, and that he himself is happy.
	But what changed after you left Vancouver and moved to Paraguay?
	Because clearly you went through all of this stuff.
	I can't imagine for how long.
	But clearly you went through all this stuff before you moved to Paraguay, right?
	Yeah.
	So what's changed?
	I mean, we did.
	Well, what's changed is that my wife has started to express some concern about her career.
	She doesn't want to lose the credentials that she had.
	But she knew all of that when you were moving to Paraguay, right?
	Well, we didn't know how long we were going to be here for.
	What do you mean you didn't know how?
	You said you moved to Paraguay.
	Yeah, yeah, but I mean, you can move back.
	You can move anywhere you want to.
	I get that, but what was the plan when you moved to Paraguay?
	What's the plan to stay in Paraguay?
	No, the plan was to assess Paraguay, whether or not we wanted to stay here or not.
	I'm going to drive you nuts.
	I'm sorry.
	No, I'm glad that you're noticing it.
	I really am.
	I'm really glad that you're noticing it because it makes me feel a little less crazy.
	All right.
	Okay, so if it was just your decision and everyone else was happy with whatever you decided, what would you do?
	Would you stay in Paraguay?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I like it here a lot.
	It's nice.
	It's...
	It's good to also, you know, I like my role.
	Okay, so you would stay in Paraguay.
	I'm sure your son is fine where he is, right?
	I mean, he's got great weather, so he can go outside.
	He's got continuity.
	He's got both parents around.
	I mean, that's pretty good, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I mean, he digs it.
	So the only problem is your wife, right?
	And obviously, your father wants to see his grandson more, and it's tough for him to get out to where you are.
	It's tough for you to get home, right?
	Right, right.
	I mean, there's that distance factor that, you know, comes into play.
	I mean, sometimes we talk about it and go, hey, why don't we meet the pathway?
	No, no, no, I can't.
	I'm not going down this road with you where you give me more details, because we're trying to get some clarity here, right?
	Okay, so your wife knew that if she stayed in Paraguay, she was going to lose her license or her career or whatever, right, for the time being?
	That's right, yeah.
	Okay.
	And she knows that she's going to have to go back to work if you go back to Vancouver.
	And she wants to go back to Vancouver and go to work.
	She's not 100% sure on that yet.
	I mean, because some days she has a blast here.
	I guess she's not 100%.
	Who's 100% sure of everything?
	Again, this is a straw man, right?
	You're creating these impossible standards and saying, well, we're not there yet.
	But there's a difference between 1% and 99%.
	There's a difference between 30% and 70%.
	So she wants to go back because of her career.
	She would lean towards that, right?
	Career, and she misses her father too, so...
	I mean, what about just living six months and six months?
	That is an option.
	That is definitely an option.
	I mean, that's a compromise when you get Paraguay and she gets, right, and you can be gone for the winter and back there for the summer, right?
	Right.
	But then when we're back, I mean, I guess then she works part-time or works seasonal and then what to do with her?
	I guess then I... I guess I just take the time off while we're in Vancouver to stay home with our son.
	And I guess it wouldn't be Vancouver.
	We'd have to live on the outskirts because Vancouver is a kind of expensive place to live.
	But that's a way in which, I mean, your son will lose some continuity, but, you know, at two, that's not hugely essential, I assume.
	But your wife gets to keep her career.
	You get to spend the winters in Paraguay, and that could work, right?
	That could work, yeah.
	Yeah.
	I think we've reached something, so...
	I guess I can let you go on to another caller.
	All right.
	Well, thanks for the call.
	I appreciate it.
	And best of luck with the decision.
	Mike, who do we have next?
	All right.
	Michael wrote in, and his question, he actually had two questions, which I'll read both of them.
	Normally, we don't do that, but I think these two are related.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	You're asking for a ferocious amount of concentration for somebody over 40.
	I will paste them both in your Skype windows.
	Oh, good.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	That would be great.
	All right.
	Copy.
	Paste.
	There you go.
	All right.
	He wrote in and said, not knowing what you want in a relationship is apparently very unattractive in adults, especially males.
	Unfortunately, some adults have no relationship experience or role models.
	How can someone figure out exactly what love means to them when they've only heard about it from song lyrics, television characters, and talking heads on the internet?
	The second question.
	Can you think of me as a talking armpit on the internet?
	Just so I don't fall into that category.
	No, think of me as a song lyric.
	Let me see if I can rhyme with love.
	Anyway, or maybe with baby.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Alright, the second question is, what is your problem with determinism philosophically?
	I've heard you speak out against determinism with regards to human decision making, but my own understanding of science, which is better than most, is that this flies in the face of everything we know about physical reality.
	So that's the second question.
	Alright.
	Determinism alarm.
	That's all right.
	That was foreordained.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	So, what's the dude's name?
	My name is Michael.
	Michael.
	Okay, so Mike, and just for those who know, Mike's on a phone because you had the problem with your Mike, Michael, right?
	Anyway.
	So, not knowing what you want in a relationship, what do you mean?
	Well, okay.
	A couple weeks ago, you were...
	I remember talking to someone and you were criticizing dating profiles for males or something.
	And I remember the profile you were criticizing, he didn't know if he wanted children.
	He didn't seem to know what he wanted in a partner or whatever.
	He wasn't being very specific about what he wanted.
	And you were sort of reacting to that negatively, like, okay, this is a weakness of his character or something.
	I guess that's in a sense true, but how do you fix that?
	No, no, no.
	Sorry.
	Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that it was a weakness in his character.
	If I remember rightly, what I was saying is that it seems to be a bit manipulative.
	Like, you're just casting your net too wide because you just want to catch someone, and it seems kind of low self-esteem.
	Right, right.
	Okay.
	Like if I say, well, I date any woman from 20 to 50 with any educational standing and whatever, right?
	Then it would be like, okay, so it's just like a pulse.
	Like you just want a body, right?
	With hopefully moving, right?
	Yeah, okay.
	But I mean, to me, it seems like being very open-minded is a good strategy if you have no experience, right?
	Well, open-minded, see, open-minded is one of these words that people use instead of an argument because it just has positive connotations.
	You know, it's like saying, well, so-and-so is overreacting.
	It's like, well, overreacting by definition is a bad thing, right?
	But you haven't actually established anything.
	Open-minded means that you're willing to accept new evidence and new arguments, but they still have to be rational, right?
	I mean, I'm not open-minded to the point where I'm going to believe that the Mayan calendar is going to predict the end of the world, right?
	Yeah.
	So being open-minded means being receptive to high standards and high qualities of new information, not people's sort of opinions or perspectives or whatever, right?
	So I'm open-minded about, say, UFOs.
	I mean, sure.
	The idea that there's no other life in the universe is inconceivable.
	The idea that human beings are going to have anything in common with aliens in a sort of what...
	13 billion year old universe or whatever, you know, given that even cultures 100 years apart don't have much in common.
	We're not likely to have much.
	But, you know, so I'm open minded, you know, I would never say never, but my standards of proof will have to be more than it looks like a weather balloon through a shaky cam on the other side of a tree on the dark side of a mountain.
	So, yeah, so open minded is fine, but, you know, still need good reason and evidence to change your mind, if that makes sense.
	Why don't you have any role models?
	I was raised by a single mom and she never dated, I guess.
	Wait, when you said you guessed, what do you mean?
	That was sloppy on my part.
	It's not a guess, it's definitely true.
	Oh, she never dated.
	Okay.
	Well, not after things went sour between my parents or whatever.
	And did you see your dad after that?
	Oh, yeah.
	I see him once in a while.
	No, I mean as a kid.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Did he date?
	Civil.
	Oh, yeah.
	But I didn't...
	Okay, I didn't see him very much, and I didn't spend significant amounts of time with him, even...
	Like, I just see him a few times, like maybe once a month or something.
	I mean, he lives nearby, but, you know, whatever.
	Why didn't he want to see you?
	Um, well, he...
	I mean, I don't really think he wanted to be a parent or something, and he didn't really...
	He seemed to like me overall.
	I mean, he's friendly to me a bit, but there wasn't really a lot of really strong interest or something.
	Hmm.
	Yeah.
	I'm sorry about that.
	It's hard to feel like you're worth something if you're...
	particularly if your same-sex parent doesn't find much value in you, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Alright.
	Okay, so your mom didn't date.
	Did your dad date?
	Oh yeah, he sort of has a common-law wife and he has for a while.
	He's sort of been dating the same person for about 18 years or something.
	They live together and stuff.
	They're just not married legally.
	You sound very sad to me.
	Or without energy.
	Does that make sense?
	I'm just trying to keep my voice down because I'm in a house full of people and stuff.
	Sorry about that.
	I'm not saying that you have to yell.
	That's my job, right?
	Sorry.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Sorry, sorry.
	I'll try and keep my voice up a little bit.
	Yeah, I don't think it's the volume that I'm talking about.
	How are you feeling when we're talking about it at the moment?
	Yeah.
	Well, a little sad, but it's not a positive subject, really.
	Wait a second here.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	So you need to be more honest with me.
	At least I'll make that request, right?
	Because I said you sound sad and then you gave me some story about needing to keep your voice low, right?
	And then I ask you how you feel and you say you feel sad, right?
	Yeah.
	Do you understand that's not the easiest maze to navigate?
	Not precisely.
	What is the issue?
	Okay, I'll be more clear.
	I'll try to be more clear.
	So, I said that you sounded sad, and then you basically said, I'm not sad, I just have to keep my voice down because there are other people in the house, right?
	Yeah.
	And then, within about 30 seconds, you then said, I feel sad.
	Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Sorry, yeah.
	Okay, so then the problem isn't that your mom didn't date, right?
	The problem is that people don't ask you how you feel, or if they do ask you how you feel, then you experience that as something you need to evade, right?
	Well, yeah, people don't ask me anything about my goals or internal life or anything that's No, no one really has any interest in me.
	Yeah, because then when you said you felt sad, you sort of made an excuse like, well, it's a sad subject, right?
	Like you had to have a sort of reason or an excuse for feeling sad.
	And I mean this with sympathy.
	I'm not trying to criticize you at all.
	I'm just sort of trying to give you my feedback on interacting with you.
	So when you said people, do you mean that your mom and your dad when you were a kid didn't Ask you how you felt or didn't show curiosity about your inner life?
	No, not then.
	Not ever, really.
	Oh, that's terrible.
	That's terrible.
	And I don't really have any...
	I mean, I'm 27, and I've never really had any really good friends.
	Well, when you say really good friends, do you mean friends at all, or...?
	Have you had bad friends or somewhat good friends?
	I've had friends that were nice sometimes, but kind of abusive other times.
	Sorry, let me just be clear about this.
	If they're nice sometimes, but abusive sometimes, they're abusive.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Right, because the nicest is to get you roped into more abuse, right?
	Like there aren't nice people who then just every now and then call you a shithead.
	Yeah, but it was also my own choice to put up with it.
	You know, I chose not to see what...
	I didn't.
	That had nothing to do with that.
	What you're saying has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
	Yeah.
	Because you said they were nice and they were also abusive sometimes.
	And I'm pointing out that nice people aren't abusive sometimes.
	Abusers are nice sometimes, but nice people are not abusive sometimes.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Right?
	So whether you put up with it or not has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
	And I'm just pointing out because I want our lines of communication to be really clear.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	All right.
	So what effects do you think it had on you, this stone-walled, blank-eyed lack of curiosity about your thoughts and feelings as a child?
	Well, I mean, I don't tend to share my thoughts and feelings.
	Well, I'm starting to now, but I tend not to share my thoughts and feelings with...
	People in general, I assume they will not be interested in them.
	I tend to be very...
	But I'm making an effort to open up to people.
	Are you interested in that?
	Yes, yes.
	I try and...
	What thoughts and feelings do you find interesting in yourself?
	Well, I mean, I have...
	I think a lot about history and the future and all kinds of things.
	I have lots of interests and I don't keep them private anymore.
	I try and show other people what I do and ask what they do and just try and find connections with other people.
	I try and find common ground with other people in person.
	Okay, so I sort of feel like I'm experiencing a commercial, right?
	Because if you have, I mean, if you're making progress in this kind of area, then we don't really need to talk about it, right?
	Right.
	All right, so did you want to talk about the dating profile or determinism?
	Oh, yes, yes, yes.
	The dating profile or determinism?
	Yes.
	Yeah, those are different things.
	Which one would you like to talk about?
	I guess we can talk about determinism.
	So what is your understanding of science that you feel is the basis for determinism?
	Okay, well, I mean, my understanding of science is that, well, I mean, reality, I mean, is supposed to be the solution to some differential equation somewhere.
	I mean, the differential equation gives the law and the particular solution is the incidental information about the world, like the distribution of matter and Stuff like that, and it just evolves deterministically because that's just what the laws of physics say.
	It says that the future is predicted by the past.
	That is the position of physics.
	So it...
	No, I don't think that it is.
	Am I misunderstanding?
	No, so what you're saying is that the brain is made up of physical matter and energy, and since an atom can't make a choice, a human being can't make a choice, right?
	What do you mean by make a choice?
	Well, an atom can't make a choice, right?
	An atom has no consciousness, right?
	Well, I'm not exactly sure...
	No, no.
	Don't overcomplicate this.
	No, no.
	Hang on.
	Hang on.
	This is a yes-no.
	Does an atom have consciousness?
	You need to define consciousness.
	I can't have a conversation with you.
	I can think of no reasonable definition of consciousness that an atom was satisfied.
	No, I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	I can't do this then.
	If you can't openly state that an atom doesn't have consciousness, then I'm just not going to.
	There's no definition of consciousness which would actually have an atom possess it.
	Mike, do we have anyone else for tonight?
	Well, we have Waleed.
	All right.
	If we could move on to Waleed.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	I've completely scrolled down and off my question list.
	What was your question, Waleed?
	Okay, so I wanted to ask about the petrodollar and its relation to basically the dollar itself.
	All right.
	You may be doing a little bit more telling and a little bit less asking, but go for it.
	Oh, believe me, believe me.
	Tell me about the petrodollar.
	Is that a dollar which is backed by a basket of commodities, namely oil or something like that?
	Well, it's basically, I believe it was in the 1970s, the United States made an agreement with oil producing states in particular and said that in exchange for basically military assistance, you will do trade for oil only in US dollars.
	And because the oil trade is facilitated in the US dollar mainly, that drives up the demand for dollars and that essentially props up the dollar.
	Yeah.
	So I wanted to know whether or not this basically made it so that the US dollar was backed by oil because I've been trying to think How this would not be the case.
	Because I know that, you know, libertarians in particular, we always say that the gold standard is the most, it would be an ideal situation for the dollar.
	But if it's, the dollar is already backed by oil, Is that really necessary?
	And maybe that's extending the longevity of the U.S. empire itself, because, I mean, the U.S. empire has shown that it's more than willing to basically burn down entire nations to preserve the status quo.
	Yeah, I mean, again, I would question some of the libertarian stuff.
	when cryptocurrencies came up, there certainly seems to have been a bit of a split in the libertarian community between those who are fans of cryptocurrency and those who still hold to the gold standard.
	You may find that those who are still very keen on the gold standard seem to be strangely simultaneous with those who take a lot of advertisement from gold bullion dealers.
	I don't know.
	Or who have been recommending that people buy gold for a long time.
	It could just be a coincidence.
	It may not be wildly objective.
	This is one of the reasons I don't do advertising because it just has this habit of having people follow the advertising dollars like salmon going upstream to spawn.
	But I think the libertarian position, if I understand it correctly, is that the free market solution is best.
	Free market solution is best.
	Voluntary trade is best.
	Now there's nothing about the US dollar and the petrodollar that It has anything to do with the free market.
	In fact, you really couldn't design something more diametrically opposite to the free market than the US dollar hegemony, like the reserve currency status at the US dollar.
	So, the US government is printing this money.
	Of course, it's worthless.
	I guess you could burn it in an emergency or whatever, but it's just junk, right?
	And the way that they have propped up its value, as you point out, is they offer military aid.
	Well, the U.S. government is only getting that military aid by stealing from the general population, and in particular from the unborn, which is not, through taxation and national debt and through the printing of currency, which is completely the opposite of a free market environment.
	The money that they use to pay for the weapons that they then ship over to these general...
	Third world or Middle East shithole dictatorships is being handed over after being stolen at the point of a gun from the American population.
	The weapons are being handed over to these god-awful dynasties in the Middle East.
	There's the Saudis and all this.
	And yeah, hundreds of billions of dollars of military aid.
	Now in return, they will continue to use the dollar to sell the oil that is extracted using mostly state corporations, which are the complete opposite of the free market.
	And so it is a massive anti-free market scheme.
	It's the typical capitalism thing where people use some vestiges of the free market to wildly profit at the point of a gun.
	You need a bank in order to be a bank robber, so you need some vestiges of the free market in order to be able to steal very profitably.
	And so the libertarian solution would be...
	Stop having governments deal with other governments because that's violent by nature.
	Stop having the government tax people.
	That's violent by nature.
	And stop having the government produce currency.
	That is a violent and exclusionary monopoly on counterfeiting that is against the free market.
	And let people deal and trade with each other voluntarily and let the chips fall where they may.
	Yeah, and I totally agree with everything you just said and I do like the way that you basically look at it from the free market perspective.
	Mostly I was thinking of the people who criticize like the current form of government but won't go as far as to say that you should just do away with it entirely.
	Like I said, they always bring up, oh well the dollar is not backed by gold and that means it's not.
	That's the root of our ills in society is that you can print whatever you want in your bank account.
	And I always think back to, like I said, the petrodollar and I guess maybe the dollar is backed by oil in some ways.
	So they have this fantasy that before 1973, America was some virgin, peaceful paradise?
	Right.
	I mean that's – so I mean I listen to Peter Schiff a lot.
	So he makes – Oh, yeah.
	OK. OK. And you as well.
	And I own both gold and I own both Bitcoin and gold.
	So just as a disclosure but – And I'm not bagging on gold, right?
	I have some gold too, and I recommend it as something that's worthwhile having.
	But yeah, I mean, look, prior to 1973, I mean, the U.S. invaded Hawaii and Puerto Rico got involved in World War II. One was fighting Muslim Barbary pirates under Jefferson, got involved in the Second World War, armed Hitler, by the way, got involved in the Korean War, has 700-plus military bases overseas, the Vietnam War, the Iraq War, the stagflation of the...
	I mean, so even if we just take prior to 1973, which is when Nixon officially took the U.S. off the gold standard because of not wanting to raise taxes to pay for Vietnam...
	I mean, it was a growing imperialist country, you know, from the very beginning.
	I mean, the whole thing was built on the bones of the natives to the country or to the landmass.
	So I think that to return...
	America to the gold standard while still leaving the government in control of the currency would certainly have an effect and would shrink the power of the state and so on, which is why it's never going to happen.
	I mean, this idea that the government is going to somehow want to or will permit the return to the gold standard is...
	You know, it's a fantasy.
	You know, it's like the virtuous taxation.
	I mean, you know, well, if the government, you see, you know, and you see these lists all over the internet, right?
	Here's what we need to do.
	You know, five things we need to do to fix America.
	We need to, you know.
	We need to cut back and title the program so that they only deal with the truly needy.
	We need to reduce healthcare costs by promoting wellness among the general population, good nutrition and exercise.
	And we need to cut back on foreign commitments.
	And then we need 500 unicorns to fight on the Constitution until it comes to life in a giant paper zombie format and takes down the Capitol.
	You know, it's just, you know, you can come up with any list that you want, you know?
	I mean, it's literally like saying to your belly, you know, well, what you need to do is shrink those fat cells and blah, blah, blah.
	It's like, well, you know, you're still going to eat like a pig.
	It doesn't really matter what you tell your belly.
	So, they're not going to go.
	I mean, the idea that the gold standard is going to save us is, you know, I'll wait for the space aliens to come down and create anarchy first.
	Yeah, I do think that there needs to be a great deal of philosophical enlightenment in the population before any real change occurs.
	We need to get back to teaching our kids proper core values of personal responsibility and civic duty.
	We need to make sure the teachers are fully engaged and bringing the best out in their student.
	It's like, yeah.
	I mean, sure, I mean, you can paint whatever word salad you want on the clouds and think that you're achieving something in the world, but if you ignore the basic coercive self-interest of mammoth, heavily armed institutions, I mean, you're just tiptoeing through the tulips when you're actually walking on a landmine.
	Boom!
	Red mist!
	Well, at least we don't have to listen to that nonsense anymore, right?
	Yeah, definitely agree with that.
	So I guess that was really the extent of that question.
	I don't know if you have time for another one.
	Depends.
	I'll just go ahead and ask them.
	Yeah.
	So in my conversations with people, particularly other men, I typically run up on this problem where everything basically turns into a pissing contest.
	So if I have any sort of opinion or if I make any sort of assertion, everybody's guard immediately goes up and it seems to them like I'm trying to dominate the conversation.
	And so they'll disagree with me just to disagree with me rather than they're disagreeing with the content of what I'm saying.
	And the reason why I know this is because sometimes I will make, just to test it out, I'll make two contradictory remarks basically in the same sentence to see if they We'll point it out, or if they'll just disagree, just disagree.
	And they always do.
	So, and this is a problem across Many of my friends, or people who I associate with regularly, and I wanted to ask you, how do I limit this?
	Because I've tried to consciously keep myself aware, okay, am I coming off as aggressive?
	Am I being overly assertive?
	Is my posturing too forward?
	But it doesn't really seem like it matters.
	It seems to me like people just want to talk over me, or just to disagree with me, just to frustrate me.
	And you think this is the men?
	Men do this?
	Oh yeah, it's always men.
	Women just, women really never do that.
	Yeah, well, I mean, how many women talk about important stuff?
	I mean, men talk about important stuff badly, but at least they try, right?
	Yeah.
	So, how are these men in your life?
	I mean, how are they your friends?
	One of them is my brother, and so...
	Ah, you see...
	Right?
	Sort of an important point.
	Okay, go on.
	And a lot of the other ones are sometimes like my brother's friends or there will be people that I worked with or there will be people who I went to college with and who I see them now that I basically embrace philosophy and I can't really even be around them anymore because of...
	They're still unprocessed.
	And I met them back during a time when I was unprocessed and really had no concept of philosophy or self-knowledge.
	And so I just basically...
	I run up against the wall against...
	Of all of these, you know, past traumas and whatnot which manifest as, you know, stonewalling whatever attempt I make at trying to find some sort of truth or, you know, give them some sort of truth that I've found out myself.
	I've even experienced it in, like, job interviews I've had with employers.
	So if I express an opinion, they'll give me shit for, you know, whatever reason they want to do that.
	So just...
	I see it in many places in my everyday life.
	It's not with all guys, but it's really a persistent problem for me, particularly with none.
	I don't know if you've had any experience with that.
	Sorry, what?
	Have I had an experience finding a post-philosophical life incompatible with anti-philosophical people?
	Yeah, I could say.
	Sorry if that was patronizing.
	No, no.
	It's not patronizing.
	It's just...
	I guess it was unthinking.
	But no, not patronizing.
	But no, I didn't laugh at you.
	I just thought that was a funny question, you know?
	Yeah.
	You know, it's like somebody who's watched my videos for four years and then says, Steph, have you had any experience with hair loss of any kind at all?
	Anyway...
	So there's two categories of people that you're talking about here, right?
	So the first category is people who are not in your life by choice, and the second is the category of people who were in your life by choice, right?
	Correct.
	Right, so your college and friends and then family and your brother's friends and all that, right?
	Right.
	Well, you know, one of the great challenges of separating relationships is overcoming competitiveness.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	So to the point where instead of trying to step on each other, you're actually trying to support each other?
	It is one of the great challenges and I, you know, according to Dr.
	Phil, like 50% of sibling relationships are characterized as abusive anyway.
	But, you know, finding a way to overcome the one-upmanship, the bullshit that happens between siblings and maybe, I don't know enough about sisters, but, you know, I have a brother and it's, you know, overcoming that stuff is really one of the great challenges of maturation.
	And siblings who aren't able to overcome that, I think, turn the greatest opportunity in life, particularly...
	Brothers and sisters could be there forever, right?
	I mean, the people who can go through your whole life with you.
	Parents, if you've got great parents, they can't go through your whole life with you because they're going to die.
	But siblings, they can do the whole journey with you, right?
	Yeah.
	And they knew you when you were kids and they can be with you in the old age home too, right?
	They can do this whole journey.
	There's such amazing one-of-a-kind opportunities for connection, support, intimacy, and trust in sibling relationships that people who fuck that up are literally like taking gold and throwing it out of an airplane into the ocean.
	So the amount of opportunity that there is in sibling relationships is so astounding, so amazing, such a rich potential for the deepest and most meaningful relationship outside of marriage that you can have, that people who kind of refuse to outgrow relationships, You know, bullshit, one-upmanship, and sibling relationships are just, to me, throwing away one of the greatest gifts that biology has to offer.
	I just really wanted to sort of point that out up front, because it sounds like a little bit, like with your brother, maybe more than a little bit, it sounds like there is this...
	Yeah, there definitely is.
	It's there.
	And unfortunately, you know, we've talked about it and we had a heart-to-heart conversation really regarding the status of our relationship.
	It was relatively recently.
	I told him that I was going to move out of the apartment and basically get my own place because he didn't seem too interested in me.
	He didn't seem very interested in my opinions or anything like that.
	And we had pretty heartfelt moments at that point where he basically told me that...
	He basically begged me to...
	To live with him again for one more year, which I did.
	I agreed to that because he gave me a really good case for why I should.
	And he said that, basically like what you had just said, that if we let this opportunity pass, we will never build a strong bond.
	And he would deeply regret that for the rest of his life.
	And I told him...
	Well, no, no.
	See, hang on, hang on.
	I don't know that he would deeply regret it for the rest of his life.
	Right?
	You don't.
	Neither do I. Right.
	Right.
	Right, so this idea, because you see this wild curse being thrown around a lot, you know?
	Well, you have to reconcile with your parents because after they're dead, you'll regret it for the rest of your life, life, life, life.
	And, you know, I just think that's, you know, this happens all the time.
	I'm not saying how common it is, but you sort of have this thing where, you know, cops lied to get someone convicted because they wanted to up their numbers or get a promotion or whatever.
	And they just kind of go on with their lives, right?
	And, you know, God, I mean, there's this guy sitting in prison that's wrong and all that, right?
	And I'm not sure that, you know, they have consciences to be fussed about.
	Like, you know, as I mentioned in the show recently, George Bush, you know, the younger who declared a war in Iraq based upon incorrect...
	Intelligence information, to put it as nicely as possible, that guy, you know, he's painting his cats, he's got a presidential library, he writes books, he does tours, you know, I mean...
	I am very sensitive to doing wrong in the world and if I've done something wrong, it really bothers me.
	It really bothers me.
	I put out a video about Nelson Mandela where I talked about him nationalizing stuff because I read it on a blog that was quoting a pretty reputable source.
	It turned out that that blog and the source was completely wrong and I felt like, oh my god, that's terrible.
	I didn't put out information like that's bad information or whatever.
	And yet I didn't start a war that killed millions of people.
	That was wrong and unjust.
	So it's really important to this curse that we wave around.
	It may not be true and it certainly may not be applicable to the person.
	I'm not comparing your brother to George like a war criminal.
	I understand that.
	I'm just saying it's not necessarily true.
	Because, you know, if he was really bothered by the lack of intimacy in the relationship, then he probably would have worked to try and solve it beforehand, right?
	Exactly, and I wasn't defending him by any means.
	I was just giving you my justification for why I agreed to basically resign a lease with him.
	And basically, now that we have this opportunity, I was just curious about your perspective on how I could do some work myself to make it better and some things that I could say to him, particularly, to give this second chance, basically, that we have to make the most of it, more or less.
	And how old are you guys roughly?
	Like early, mid-20s?
	I'm 25.
	He's 23.
	So I'm older.
	So you've had like a quarter century to work in it already, right?
	Right.
	Right.
	I mean, give or take, right?
	Yeah.
	And it was about...
	A year or two ago that I really began to seek self-knowledge and to process my childhood and he hasn't done that.
	So I'm talking to somebody basically with all my past, prior trauma because he was there for all of it and he basically was dished the same, you know, plate of shit that I had to eat when I was a kid.
	But getting him to start questioning that Position is really the goal there.
	So yeah, this does go a lot deeper than people stonewalling my arguments, but yeah, that's really where I'm at right now with him.
	Well, what commitments has he made to make any kind of change, or has he?
	So he, basically what he'll do is he comes home from work and he basically will tell me, hey, you want to go do something?
	And it usually, I tell him basically, look Matt, I don't want to hang out with you anymore if it has something to do with getting drunk or drinking or anything like that because we're not really bonding at that point.
	What we're really doing is we're just feeding our alcoholism more than anything else.
	But when I say this...
	Do you have alcoholism?
	I mean, is that a throwaway phrase?
	Oh, you are an alcoholic.
	Oh, it's a throwaway phrase.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Okay.
	Well, I mean, we get to use the parlance.
	We get fucked up when we drink.
	So I guess that's alcoholism.
	How often do you drink?
	I don't drink very often.
	I drink probably once every couple of months.
	Oh, okay.
	Alright.
	And it's typically because of work and because, you know, I'm like a health fitness nut, so I kind of just stay off of that stuff.
	But I used to drink a lot.
	There was a period where, and him too, so there was probably a period where I was drinking like every day for probably like a month.
	But it was never...
	Yeah, but that's long in the past, right?
	Yeah, that was a few years ago.
	But yeah, right now I don't...
	Probably not that relevant now.
	So has he made...
	I mean, does he know that one of the things that's propelling you is this examination, this exhumation of history and pursuit of self-knowledge and so on?
	And what does he think?
	So I talked to him about our parents.
	And we basically had very abusive parents.
	He agrees with me that my father was abusive but he refuses to see the abusiveness of my mom because I guess she was supposedly less abusive and she has a very troubled history herself.
	Trevor Burrus Oh, and they show he doesn't get that your mom chose your dad thing.
	He doesn't get it and he feels sorry for her because of my mom's history.
	And because she's extremely nurturing in a way that she's like one of those mothers who would probably sacrifice her life for her kids, but at the same time is still abusive, if that makes any sense.
	It makes no sense.
	Right.
	I mean, it's...
	So she's basically, like, financially bankrupt, but she's still, like...
	Even though that me and my brother, we're both pretty well off financially, she still spends, like, half of her paycheck sending us care packages, which I don't really understand, even though when I tell her, like, don't do this...
	Well, okay, but hang on.
	So she would do anything for her kids, you think?
	I know where you're going with this, Steph.
	I've listened to your show enough times.
	Okay.
	Take it away.
	I'll get a snack.
	You take it away.
	I know.
	Sorry, I didn't mean to.
	I'm not trying to be honest.
	No, no.
	Go ahead.
	Go ahead.
	I'm glad that you do, so go ahead.
	Okay, so yeah, I know that if she really did care that much, she would have gotten away from my dad, for one.
	And she wouldn't have been abusing us verbally and physically.
	That's not what I was thinking, but...
	Sorry.
	That's when I thought you were going with this one.
	No, no.
	I mean, that's a fine thing.
	But have you talked to your mom about your childhood?
	I did.
	I did.
	I recently spoke to her, really on my brother's behest, because I hadn't talked to her in about a year.
	Basically, I cut off all contact with my parents.
	But he asked me to speak to her because she claimed to be depressed and she couldn't go to work anymore because I wasn't speaking with her or something like that.
	It was something along those lines where she was so depressed that she couldn't even get out of bed because she felt like such a horrible mother.
	That kind of thing.
	So she was basically trying to guilt me into talking to her.
	And which I did.
	I just said, okay, I'll talk to her.
	I'm not going to make it hard for her too.
	I'm not going to just say, oh, I feel sorry for you.
	I forgive you for everything that you've done and whatnot.
	So I told her basically, if you want to keep talking to me, these are my terms.
	I told her about how I didn't have much of a connection to her throughout my childhood and how I... Was perpetually abused by her.
	How she married a pretty vicious alcoholic.
	And everything I had to say regarding our abuse, which I relayed back to my brother.
	I told him everything that I had told her.
	He still doesn't see this.
	He still doesn't understand this.
	Sorry, who doesn't?
	Your brother?
	My brother.
	Yeah, my brother still doesn't...
	No, let's get back to your mother.
	Let's get back to your mother.
	Don't flip me in and out of people.
	Sorry.
	So what happened with your mom when you told her all this?
	So first she...
	First she said that I was overreacting, to which I told her, no, I'm not.
	And this is why.
	Okay, so she wouldn't do anything for her children then.
	Right.
	Like, listen to them, right?
	Like, she asks a question, you give an honest response, and she tells you that you're wrong.
	Exactly.
	Right, so the idea that she would do anything for her children, I mean, she won't even listen, right?
	Right.
	Um...
	When I said that she'd quote-unquote do anything, it was more like a self-sacrificing sort of thing.
	Like physical self-sacrifice, it seems to me.
	No!
	No!
	No, no, no!
	You said she sends you care packages, right?
	Right.
	And you said, I don't know what they're for, right?
	Right.
	Right.
	So they're not for you.
	They're not for your needs.
	They're for her needs.
	Yeah, I can see that.
	Like, come talk to me because I'm so depressed I can't get out of bed.
	How was your childhood?
	Oh no, you're wrong about that.
	Those are her needs.
	I see.
	The care packages aren't for you.
	They're for her.
	So she can play a role to herself and say, well, look, I send care packages.
	I care.
	I do anything for my kids, all right?
	Except listen to them and not abuse them and marry a man who, you know, wasn't a vicious alcoholic or whatever, right?
	Right.
	Right.
	So give me an example of not self-sacrifice fucking care packages and money.
	Who cares about that?
	Self-sacrifice is when you listen to something that's really uncomfortable to you and stay empathetic to the other person, right?
	Right.
	Which she didn't do.
	Right.
	Okay, so you said that you had huge issues with her as a mother, and you said that she was abusive, and that she married an abusive man, and so on, right?
	And not just occasionally abusive, right?
	But if I understand it correctly, it was fairly continual, right?
	Oh yeah, it was basically every day.
	Okay, so...
	Then what happened when you told her that, I mean, this is about as negative a feedback as parents can get, right?
	Yeah, so...
	I kept going after her initial resistance, and I told her that you're going to have to accept conversations on these types of terms.
	You're going to have to accept basically what you did wrong.
	And she said, okay, I will.
	Okay.
	That sounds believable.
	All right.
	Yeah, so...
	And then what happened?
	So basically, I've only talked to her two times since.
	And...
	Wait, wait, wait, wait.
	Wait, just a doggone minute.
	I jumped too far there, didn't I? Well, you kind of skipped over something that's kind of important.
	Okay.
	What was that?
	You told her that you have massive problems with her as a parent, right?
	Whose job is it to pursue that?
	Whose job is it to fix that?
	Well, it's her job.
	It's her job.
	She should be racking her brain.
	She should be reading the books.
	She'd say, give me the books you've been reading.
	Give me whatever's helping you with these ideas.
	Let's go to therapy.
	Fuck the care packages.
	Let's pay for a psychologist or a therapist or something.
	I'm so sorry.
	I'm going to write down things.
	Does this jive with your experience?
	Tell me more.
	She should be diving in, right?
	After you bring up this bombshell, right?
	Which obviously is a bombshell to her, right?
	Yeah.
	Oh, no, she didn't do anything even approaching that.
	It became a non-subject again, right?
	More or less, yeah.
	That's why I really don't talk to her unless she calls me.
	All right, so she doesn't really do fuck-all for her kids, right?
	Because the care package is for her, not you, right?
	Because you don't even know why you're getting them.
	Right, right.
	Correct.
	I mean, if I give Queen albums to a deaf man...
	Is he going to be grateful?
	Exactly.
	Yes, they're that good.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah, I mean, that's where we're at now.
	And like I said, I'm going to jump back to my brother now.
	I mean, I think I've said all I needed to say about my mom.
	He just doesn't understand it because he's normalized the abuse to such an extent that If you bring up the idea of abuse, what he'll say is, well, everybody got abused, or you're being a pussy, or...
	Does he really...
	Hang on.
	Does he actually...
	Is that a direct quote?
	You're being a pussy?
	Yeah, it is.
	So that's verbally abusive, right?
	No, that's verbally abusive.
	That's why I asked if it was a direct quote.
	Yeah.
	So what the fuck are you doing living there for another year?
	I was really convinced that he would come around, that if I kept trying.
	Based on what?
	Well, exactly, so...
	No, no, no!
	Based on what?
	Don't say, yeah, exactly, that's your mom saying, oh, yeah, yeah, no, I'll listen, I'll change, right?
	So he essentially started crying in front of me, which I had never seen before.
	So he gave me a very strong emotional appeal, which I fell for.
	Oh, so he manipulated you?
	It seems so, yeah.
	It seems like he did.
	All right.
	So you're a pussy for being upset about your abusive history, but he's not a pussy for crying so you'll do something?
	I mean, what is he, 12?
	And a girl?
	I mean, are you kidding me?
	Yeah, I mean, ironically, if this was actually a girl, I probably, I wouldn't fall for it, because, you know, it's like, I know that's in their basket of strategies, but the fact that a guy did that, that's what caught me off guard, and that's why...
	Okay, so he's needy and codependent, and he's afraid of being lonely.
	Am I off base?
	No, you're not.
	Yeah, okay.
	All right.
	And the funny thing is he has a lot of quote-unquote friends, which at the same time, he has so many friends.
	There's nothing lonelier than empty relationships, right?
	Right.
	At least when you're alone, you can be yourself.
	But when you're with empty relationships, you can't even be yourself, right?
	Yeah, definitely.
	Definitely.
	You can be real alone or you can be a ghost with false friends.
	Right.
	The ghost with false friends things, you know?
	Pulse proximity is not intimacy, and it's worse than no friends at all.
	Don't leave me with my friends!
	Whatever you do, don't leave me alone with my friends.
	Don't leave me with the zombie horde.
	Let me feast on your brain for a while and pretend I'm alive.
	All right.
	Right, so the other thing is I thought, well, if he's doing this, then maybe he's really committed to making a serious change, so...
	If he's doing what?
	What?
	Crying to get you to stay?
	Crying.
	Well, I didn't know at that point...
	Tears are emotions, always?
	I didn't...
	You know, I've never seen it before.
	I couldn't tell that I was being manipulated at that time.
	I guess it was just a mistake, so...
	Um...
	Basically, I think I'm kind of running out of things to say now, given I think I said that basically everything that was on my mind regarding this topic.
	I don't know if you want to add anything or want to ask me any questions.
	No, I'd be cautious about this relationship, for want of a better word.
	People who make commitments to self-knowledge, you will not...
	Mistake them for fakers, right?
	Because they're really working.
	They get destabilized.
	Everything's thrown into question.
	They can't sleep.
	Their health habits can decline for a while.
	They're all consumed.
	They weep at commercials spontaneously.
	There are people who are in the process of deep self-mining and reconnecting to original pain.
	You can't miss that.
	I mean, it becomes all-consuming.
	Because then you turn around and face the fucking predator called history.
	And you know, when you're staring in a small room at a big lion, you're pretty fucking focused.
	And it's all-consuming.
	You're not daydreaming when you've got a lion in your room.
	And when you've got a lion called history that you need to find a way to work with without dying, you're pretty focused.
	It becomes pretty much all you can think about.
	And so people who are genuinely on that path of turning around and confronting the greatest demons of their history in order to live an angelic future, well, you can't miss that.
	You can't fake that.
	And if he's not doing that, he's not doing that.
	And if he's not doing that and you are, it's like...
	Oh, what was that famous American writer?
	She wrote about her...
	Go something.
	Anyway, I'll think of it before the end of the show.
	She wrote about her brother and she said, Gertrude Stein, she wrote about her brother and she said, little by little, we never met again.
	And when you diverge in a fundamental way, like I'm now going to be honest and deal with reality as opposed to self-medicate with alcohol and empty relationships and bullshit and avoidance and manipulation.
	When I'm becoming real, guess what?
	I can't hug ghosts.
	Ghosts can't hug each other, but at least they can pretend, right?
	When you become real, when you come to life, you cannot walk with the dead.
	They can't stand you.
	Because they don't feel dead unless they see a pulse.
	They don't feel dead unless they see life.
	So as you bring yourself to life, as you resurrect yourself from the corpse and grave of history, you become antithetical to the dead.
	And they want you to stick around.
	Because if you're sticking around with them, then they feel alive, and then they don't have to live, right?
	They basically get to drink your blood and eat your brains, right?
	They don't have to live.
	If you're alive and you're sticking with them, they don't have to come to life.
	They can have the illusion of life, right?
	You know how they have an open casket, they dress up the cadaver to make him not look like a cadaver?
	Well, that's your job.
	You can hang around.
	around, you need a live undertaker to put the makeup on the skull, right?
	Do you think people are just like really...
	Sorry, go ahead.
	So do you think people are like really just like that vicious, like to the point where they want to like be vampires and just basically suck your blood?
	Because this is coming back to No, I don't know that it's necessarily vicious.
	And this is an analogy.
	I don't even know the degree to which it applies.
	I'm just sharing my thoughts.
	It's not vicious, it's desperate.
	I see.
	It's just desperate.
	You are a thing.
	If I'm drowning and I grab a barrel to stay afloat, I don't care about the feelings of the barrel.
	It's just something I use so I don't drown.
	I don't say, well, excuse me, if you don't mind, I'm going to interfere with your floating.
	When people are desperate enough, desperation turns everyone else into a thing, into an object, into a flotation device, into a tool to hack themselves out of a prison.
	When you are desperate enough, you cannot consider the emotions of other people.
	They just become things by which you will attempt to survive.
	And that could be through sex or money or prestige or conflict or whatever it is.
	So I don't know that it's cruelty.
	It may be desperation.
	But I'm simply pointing out whatever choices your brother makes, if he chooses to reject self-knowledge, I'm telling you this with as much certainty as I can muster, if he chooses to reject self-knowledge and you're in pursuit of self-knowledge, little by little, you will never meet again.
	I already get that impression.
	So going back to the start of the question, I want to tie it together.
	So I said that the people that I hang around with from college, I just really can't stand them anymore.
	And I have a feeling that they really can't stand me either.
	And this whole dynamic of people really not being able to stand my attitude since I've taken this journey in pursuit of self-knowledge, it might manifest its way in people trying to frustrate me and disagree with everything I say.
	Do you think that might be a possibility?
	Well, having half self-knowledge is almost more dangerous than none.
	When we study and learn about ourselves, we really come to life.
	I lived the first 15 years of my life as a corpse, as a little boy with no pulse.
	You know, running around with all the frantic restlessness of a ghost, without even the stimulating clink of chains.
	And when I began to look into my history and examine my pain, which I think I did just in time, I began to come to life.
	Everybody likes coming to life.
	It's an agonizing process, a painful process to wake up from the cryogenic It's a cage of history.
	Everybody loves to come back to life and there's a relief as energy, as emotions, as passions, as compassion, as empathy, as it flows into you, as it energizes you, as it terrifies you, as it brings you to life.
	You know, it literally is the lightning bolt that brings Frankenstein's monster to life.
	It feels like that.
	It's searing.
	It's powerful.
	And when we wake up to the aliveness in ourself, we often forget to wake up to the deadness in others, to notice the difference.
	For a long time, I thought I was rejoining the human race in coming to life.
	Because I thought, well, you know, my leg was broken, I get my splint, I get my cast, I do my rehab, and I'm back then running around like everyone else, right?
	This was my...
	Thought.
	I was damaged, I was repairing myself, and that I would be fixed like everyone else.
	This is not the reality of what happened to me.
	It's not the reality of what happened to anyone I know who has rigorously and relentlessly pursued self-knowledge.
	It does not happen that you heal yourself to rejoin humanity.
	Like Nietzsche's Superman, you heal yourself and surpass humanity.
	Because humanity is, as I talked about earlier in the show, inhumane.
	And again, you don't have to take my opinions or arguments or experiences for this at all.
	You have to simply reveal the truth of your history and the thoughts and feelings to those around you and test everything I say to be put to the test of your empirical experience.
	But I know, I know what's going to happen and I know there's a reason most people don't ever do that test because they know what's going to happen as well.
	But when we wake up to ourselves we do not climb out of the grave to join all the mourners who then turn into people celebrating our resurrection.
	We come out of the grave to see a world of holes and graves.
	We come out of the grave And see a landscape of the dead.
	And that is the horror that I was talking about before.
	So to wake up for yourself is great.
	I hope that your brother makes the right choice and climbs out of the corpse pit with you.
	But if he doesn't, you will be on opposite journeys.
	Well, one of you will be falling and one of you will be rising.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I just want to agree with you, and that's definitely been my experience.
	When I do talk to a lot of other people, I do notice their flaws.
	I notice these really gaping holes within their personalities that I just couldn't even see before.
	And it's really shocking, and it really gives me a lot of...
	It gives me like a...
	How do I put it?
	It's like going back in time and seeing myself, what I was like before I started to engage in self-examination.
	So...
	Where I was going with this...
	Well, I guess I basically just...
	Yeah, I don't really have anything else to say about this one, but...
	When you really have self-knowledge, and you really have the truth, and you really are alive, your very eyes will burn the dead.
	I know this sounds all kinds of melodramatic, but I'm telling you, in my experience, it's very true.
	That the very aliveness in your eyes will burn the dead.
	It's like you get these full concentrated being alive lasers that come out of your eyes.
	And so when you are alive and you are dining with the dead, you have to pretend to be rotten.
	You have to pretend that your teeth have fallen out and you can see your gum line through the holes in your cheek.
	You have to pretend that one eyeball is falling down.
	You have to mimic the dead to be with the dead.
	And that is...
	I'm sorry, go ahead.
	I was going to say I understand.
	And there's another thing actually I just thought of.
	So remember when I asked you, do you think it's viciousness?
	And you had said it was desperation.
	The reason why I asked, the reason why I was curious about the disposition of the other person, the dead person, is I really want to know how to position myself when I talk to these people.
	So if it's desperation, I guess I kind of feel sorry for them.
	No, no, no.
	Just so I'm trying to get across to you.
	And I'm not doing a great job and I'm sorry for that.
	You can't talk to these people.
	I see.
	You speak a different language now.
	I see.
	You cannot talk to them because anything that you say that is honest will be opposed, which is what you started the conversation tonight about, right?
	Anything that you say.
	It's not what you say.
	It's that you're alive when you say it that they're opposing.
	It doesn't matter what I say to some people.
	The fact that I'm alive when I say it is what they dislike.
	I see.
	So you can pretend with them.
	You can diminish yourself.
	You can act like the dead with them.
	But even then, you can't really get away with it.
	But they will enjoy at least having the power over you that you will extinguish your life to join them In their monotonous dirge of emptiness, right?
	They will at least feel satisfied that they have the power to have you kill your life to suck with the dead, right?
	They will gain some sense of power, some feeling of power, some rush of power over that.
	But if you go into the tomb world full of life, they will hate you.
	And not because you're alive and they're dead.
	They won't hate you because of that.
	I mean, they will hate you because they don't have to be dead.
	Because they choose to be dead.
	I see.
	They think that everyone has to be dead, but when you come along and you have resurrected yourself and you have come to life, then it reminds them that death is in fact a choice.
	The living death Of avoided, repetitive, dysfunctional, abused history.
	The living death of the Groundhog Day of Gruesomeness is a choice.
	There is two gaps every day in the revolving door of history.
	You can step out.
	It's cold, it's bitter, it's dangerous, it's difficult, but you can do it.
	And whenever the living walk among the dead, it reminds them, That they haven't died.
	They have merely chosen death, chosen to continue in a state of death.
	And whenever you remind people who've made bad choices, who consider those choices an absolute, i.e.
	not a choice, i.e.
	they're determinists.
	When you remind people that their state of mind is the result of choices, And it's not an inevitability.
	It's not human nature.
	They're not doing the best they can with the knowledge they had.
	They don't have good intentions.
	They can fucking change.
	When you remind them of that, the first...
	The first feeling...
	You ever sat...
	My daughter calls it crisscross applesauce.
	You ever sit on your leg in a funny way and your leg is then numb when you straighten it?
	Or your foot?
	I do this, I sit like a foot up on the ottoman and I feel like I get this frozen hoof on the end of my leg, right?
	What's the first feeling when life rushes back into a dead limb?
	Tingles and feels uncomfortable.
	Hurts like hell sometimes, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, resurrection is painful.
	Coming back to life is painful.
	And people avoid that and say, well, this is life.
	And then they see someone who's genuinely alive.
	It's like, oh shit, that's what life looks like.
	Or they'll make excuses as to why they're still the way they are.
	Or maybe you had it better than they did.
	Yeah, or they'll define life in a negative way.
	Oh, that stuff.
	He's so arrogant.
	He's so full of himself.
	He's so insensitive.
	He's so dominoing.
	He's so bossy.
	He's so blah, blah, blah.
	All they'll do is they'll say, life is a pejorative.
	Right?
	And I don't want to be that arrogant son of a bitch who thinks he knows everything and tells everyone what to do and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	Right?
	So they simply define being alive as slander.
	And it becomes noble to be dead.
	Yeah, I totally actually I do really pick up on that because I feel like for some reason in in the American culture particularly like sociopathy is is cool in some ways.
	So like being a complete asshole is yeah it's just like it's an awesome thing to be to be like so I'll be talking to people about I'll be talking to people about sports and the machinations and sports contracts and whatnot, how people will fuck each other over in these contract signings and whatnot, and people will take the size of the most aggressive, vicious person in the situation and be like, yeah, the guy got him, or something like that, or they were totally right because he would have got fucked over anyway.
	And this is this general thought that If you're being a sociopath, you are somehow standing up to a system that's trying to force you to be good so it can, you know, manipulate you or it can fuck you over, rather, if that makes any sense.
	Oh, yeah, because it's all, you know, sociopath.
	I mean, win-lose, right?
	There's no win-win.
	There's no sustainable win-win.
	It's all win-lose, right?
	Which is why when you're honest, you get attacked, right?
	Because it has to be win-lose.
	Yeah, definitely.
	Yeah, I mean, what is it that most kids want to be is famous.
	They don't care how, they don't care why, but most celebrities are, as far as I understand it, like clinical narcissists, right?
	I mean, we have terrifying templates of who you should be in the world.
	The heroes, they're all, you know, cold-hearted people who, you know, can shoot other people without any particular conscience and so on.
	And so, yeah, we have these terrifying templates.
	But this is just the desperation, right?
	I mean, I want to aspire to be king of the dead is the modern world's greatest ambition, right?
	I want to be lord of Hades.
	I want to be ruler of the damned.
	That is the greatest heaven we can think of is being in charge of hell.
	Right.
	And I feel like when you say they're clinical narcissists, I totally agree.
	And I think they're aided and fueled in that effort by the desperation with which people shower praise on them, like adoration and stuff like that.
	Everybody knows who LeBron James is, but how many people would know who somebody like you is, for example, even though you've probably done more for people than somebody like LeBron James has ever conceivably think of doing?
	You know what I mean?
	You know, I personally, I think just the right number of people know about me.
	I actually would not want to.
	If more people knew about me, I would suck at what I do.
	I think so.
	Why is that?
	I really, you know, like, I sometimes think, you know, oh, let's say somebody offered me a TV show.
	I would, like, run the opposite.
	I would run in the opposite direction.
	I think just the right number of people know about me.
	And it's going to take a long time for my real value to be seen, which is perfectly fine.
	I mean, it would, you know, it wouldn't be as an important job to do if I were better known.
	Well, you just built a studio, right, Steph?
	So hopefully you will increase the production quality of your videos and whatnot.
	I think that will attract a lot more people.
	I built a studio so I could raise my voice without scaring my family.
	No, so I could be louder without alarming other people.
	I see.
	No, it's, you know, this idea, you know, like I should be better known.
	I appreciate that.
	And it's a nice thought and so on.
	But I empirically, you know, I try to reject fantasy as much as humanly possible.
	And given the statements that I've made tonight about my experience and impressions of and arguments for where the world is, I would not, you know, then say I wish I were better known would be to reject everything I just said about the world, if that makes sense.
	Well, I wish you were better known.
	How about that?
	As I put it this way, I wish I lived in a world where I was better known, and therefore it would be less important that I be so well-known, if that makes any sense.
	But yeah, I mean, we're just aiming to build that world, and it's a multi-generational thing.
	So I am very, very comfortable and happy with where the show is.
	I'm happy it's doing so well, but I sure as heck don't want to have it go faster because that would be to think I lived in a different world and I don't want to model that or have that in my head.
	Well, that's awesome, Steph.
	And thanks for having this conversation with me.
	Thank you very much.
	And of course, as always, drop us a line.
	Let us know how it goes with your brother.
	Steph, can I say one more thing?
	So if you're in the Chicago area, we're having an FDR meetup on Saturday.
	It's going to take place...
	At 601 North McClurg Street at the local Root restaurant.
	So if anybody who's listening hasn't seen the advertisement on meetup.com or on the board, you should definitely join us and it'll be at 2 p.m.
	All right.
	I won't be there, but I certainly wish you guys the very best.
	And maybe in the evening, if you guys go into the evening, we could do a little chat on Skype or something.
	Sure, sounds good.
	All right.
	Keep me posted.
	Thanks, everyone, for a great show.
	I really, really appreciate it.
	It's fdrurl.com forward slash donate to help the show out, to help us spread the good word.
	And have yourselves a great week, everyone.
	And we will talk to you Sunday morning.
	Remember, if you want to Join the show.
	Just give an email through to Mike, operations at freedomainradio.com, and he will take down your Bitcoin address.
	I think that's how it works.
	Now he'll just take your Skype name and we'll call you.
	So have a great week.
	Anything else you wanted to add, Mike?
	If you go to FDRpodcasts.com, not podcast, FDRpodcasts.com.
	It's our new podcast search feature and application, thanks to Kevin and James.
	Recommend you check it out.
	It's pretty darn cool.
	So FDRpodcasts.com.
	FDRpodcasts.com.
	Please check it out.
	And, yeah, have a great evening, everyone.

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