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Feb. 2, 2014 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:47:21

2607 Thinking With The Right Head - Sunday Call In Show February 2nd, 2014

Self-motivated learning, the morality of wage labor, the personal growth cost-benefit analysis, knowing the difference between danger and safety, love and abuse cannot coexist, vulnerability around evil is self-abuse, dating outside your culture, a conversation with a listeners penis, history as a catalogue of competing crimes and living your values.

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	Good morning, everybody.
	Stefan Molyneux from...
	22?
	2014.
	2nd February.
	Hope you're doing well.
	Thank you so much for joining us in the Cathedral of Reason this Sunday morning.
	Thank you so much to Mike, as always, for giving up his hot yogurt and tai chi to join us this morning.
	And thank you so much for listening, for calling in.
	So, people seem to like the Izzy stories, and I think they're probably quite helpful, and I'm sure she won't mind in time.
	But trying to get her to internalize ambitions and goals is a challenge.
	Now, it's not a challenge I think is particular to her.
	I mean, I think it's just a challenge that is being human, right?
	So, you know, we want her to do stuff, practice her swimming, practice her skating.
	Gymnastics, you know, the stuff that she likes to do, but she doesn't like to practice that much.
	So take her swimming.
	She's like, let's just play.
	I don't want to practice.
	And I haven't been pushing her too hard with that stuff.
	But stuff like, so reading, right?
	So, you know, she's getting quite good at reading, but she doesn't really like to practice, which of course I can understand.
	In anything that you try to do, there's sort of a hump.
	There's a hill you've got to get over.
	It's uphill and then it's downhill after that, which I guess is not the best metaphor, but it gets easier, sort of what I'm saying.
	So I'm trying to get her to internalize the goals because it's kind of become a game of cat and mouse, right?
	Like she needs to do her reading, but she's like, oh, later, you know, or it just becomes something she's sort of avoidant about.
	And it becomes a hassle.
	And it is boring, you know, chasing her around.
	I still are reading a note.
	And yes, I don't like the idea of just waiting until she's ready.
	I mean, there's an unschooling thing which says you wait until the kid's ready and so on.
	But physiologically, kids are sort of primed around five or six to be really good at learning Reading, right?
	The same way that sort of between two and four, they're really good at learning language.
	If you miss that window, it can be challenging later on.
	And let's say that she only develops an interest in reading when she's 10 or 11.
	Well, I was reading when I was four or five, and by then I had five years or so of experience reading, and you just can't catch that stuff up.
	So I'm focusing on her reading.
	Plus, you know, as an only child, she's going to have to Get used to amusing herself to some degree and reading is a great way to do that.
	So anyway, so we talked about it this morning and I was sort of, we made it a lot of fun and we had a great conversation about it.
	I said, you know, do you like being bossy?
	Yeah, like being bossy.
	Hey, who doesn't?
	And I said, you know, and I took a banana and I said, this is, this is you and reading and I say, let's do some reading and I push the banana and then it stops.
	Let's do it from reading.
	I push the banana and it stops.
	Then I grab the banana and put it back at the beginning, right?
	And this is you with swimming.
	Let's practice some swimming.
	No.
	And getting this, like I said, the banana doesn't move.
	It only moves when it's pushed.
	And I said, and that's kind of where you are with a lot of things.
	You will do stuff if you're pushed and then you try to figure out ways to avoid it.
	And it's not like we got a lot of demands or very bossy or anything like that.
	And I said, let me tell you something.
	If you can take these things that we want you to do, and we've explained why.
	I think there's good reasons.
	If you can take these things and you can put them in your heart rather than have them something that people are telling you to do from outside, then you can be bossy in your life.
	You can be a boss.
	I said, nobody calls me up and says, Steph, you've got to do a show or I'm not paying you.
	And I guess if I didn't do shows for long enough, well, you know, I'd probably still make money.
	I mean, I know I would because there's 3,000 shows out there already, so people would still be plowing.
	So, I mean, I could make money for the rest of my life without doing another show.
	But I like doing the shows.
	I like learning about stuff.
	I like inflicting passive-aggressive computer nerd revenge stuff.
	I like all of that stuff.
	And I said, so I have what I want to do and my love of learning in my heart, and that means I don't have a boss.
	I don't have someone telling me what to do because I have all of this stuff in my heart, and I grabbed it.
	So I said, let's scoop up your learning.
	Now, if you put it in your heart, you can...
	You won't have someone telling you what to do your whole life.
	So why do we want you to learn how to swim?
	So, you know, you can go swimming with fishies.
	So if we're on vacation somewhere and there are dolphins, you go swimming with dolphins.
	It's because we want you to have fun.
	I mean, swimming was a big part of my teenage years for sure.
	I mean, I was on a swim team and a water polo team and all that.
	So we talked about all the things that she's resistant to doing.
	And said if you scoop them up and put them into your heart, and we tickled while we were doing it, and then you're in charge.
	So you can come and say, Daddy, I'd like to learn how to read.
	Now even if you don't want to in the moment, that's how you end up not being told what to do your whole life.
	It's if you internalize.
	If you put things in your heart that need to get done.
	But if you just wait for other people to tell you what to do, you will always have people who will tell you what to do.
	It was a really great conversation.
	I just sort of wanted to share it.
	Well, it'll probably take a couple of tries, but I think she does really kind of get the idea.
	So it's just a good lesson if you've got kids and, you know, I think we all start off pretty inert, but trying to get Isabella to internalize the values that will give her real freedom.
	You know, the real freedom in this life is the internalization of goals.
	That's real freedom and that freedom is available to you to some degree regardless of where you live at least in the West.
	The internalization of goals.
	What do you want to get done in your life?
	Or are you passive?
	Drifting your time away on movies and TV and video games and then resentfully doing whatever people tell you needs to be done.
	Then you'll forever remain a kind of slave.
	Relative to the freedom of a self-directed life, even being an employee is a kind of slavery.
	Internal, metaphorical, but nonetheless, it is a kind of slavery.
	Mike, you're in a situation now where almost nobody tells you what to do.
	How's that?
	Much better than being a slave, I will say.
	How was that transition for you?
	Because you went from having scheduled work and unionized work and bosses to the terror of being your own boss.
	Because being your own boss, everyone thinks it's great.
	It took a while for me.
	My own boss is kind of an asshole.
	Inside can be kind of bossy and domineering.
	It took a while to sort of measure that out.
	But how was that transition for you?
	Well, very different at first.
	It was definitely something that took a bit of getting used to, but once I kind of got in the swing of things and realized that, hey, no one's really looking over my shoulder to make sure I actually do something with my time, I think I ended up working actually harder than I would have otherwise and working on things I was actually excited about working on as opposed to, oh, no, I have to do this now.
	I mean, with anything, there's a certain amount of that that you just have to do, you know, Grind away on things that aren't too fun.
	All life has its dentistry.
	That's just life, right?
	Oh yeah, for sure.
	I definitely could focus on things that I was excited about, things that I was passionate about.
	I didn't need someone prodding me in order to feel motivated and excited to begin to work on them.
	It's like, oh, I get to work on this today.
	Alright, and then hours go by.
	I look at the end of those hours and I have something cool to show for it.
	Something that I'm happy with to show for it.
	Yeah, just getting that process of self-motivation.
	And it's something that I certainly wasn't used to, and it takes some getting used to if you've grown up in the culture that most of us have.
	Public schools and stuff, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	Unless you're, you know, hatched from some Fabergé egg in some cave somewhere, removed from the culture.
	It's going to take a bit getting used to, but it's definitely worth deprogramming yourself and reprogramming yourself to actually focus on what you're excited about.
	And the motivation that comes along with that is pretty exciting.
	Alright.
	Yeah, I just wanted to mention that we always try to encourage as much freedom in the listeners as possible, but internalize your goals and work hard to achieve them, and you will achieve, I think, a kind of liberty that is really hard to get any other way.
	So, thank you for your patience.
	Let's move on with the callers.
	Alright, Paul, you were up first today.
	Go ahead.
	Hi.
	Can you see me?
	Oh, you can turn off your video, Paul.
	We just need your audio.
	Okay.
	Okay, that's fine.
	I had a question and comment and stuff like that for you, Stefan.
	Well, if you could narrow it down.
	Just a sec.
	Start with your most important question, just in case it takes a while.
	It's sort of something that happens where, you know, we spend a while on it and then it's like, well, my really important question is, you know, like hosting the radio shows that I do, you know, in the last 20 minutes, everything lights up and people want to talk and it's like, but we're almost done.
	So yeah, what's your most important question?
	So your relationship with Michael, are you his employer or what is that?
	Oh man, why do you got to put us in a box, man?
	Well, I mean, we're friends first and foremost.
	Great friends first and foremost.
	And we work together.
	And I think that there's a yin and yang in terms of suggestion.
	You know, Mike takes the lead and direction on some things that are, you know, productive.
	And then I take the lead on other things and they're not.
	Mike's like, hey, you should go on Joe Rogan.
	I'm like, hey, let's do the truth about Obamacare.
	So, no, I mean, we have a yin and a yang.
	I don't think, I wouldn't say that either one of us has final decision-making authority.
	Like, I don't think it's ever been, well, thanks for your input, but it's going to be this way.
	I mean, we just keep working at it until we hit some sort of consensus, and I don't think that there is a, I don't think there's any kind of hierarchy that's ever been invoked that way, right?
	No, we've worked and tried to do everything possible to avoid any type of hierarchy, figuring that would be counterproductive.
	So I think we're definitely working as equals.
	So it's a partnership, like a 50-50 partnership where he makes exactly what you make and he has the same authority that you have?
	Well, I don't really want to get into our financial arrangements.
	That's kind of personal.
	But I would certainly say as far as working together, I mean, I've obviously been working on the show a lot longer.
	And therefore have more experience.
	But Mike has a window into a youth demographic that I've left a decade or two in the rear view.
	And so can help me to understand sort of how to talk to people who are younger.
	And so, yeah, we just we have different areas of expertise.
	But certainly, as far as decision making and negotiation goes, I would say it's equal.
	Right, and wage labor is my topic.
	I mean, I want to talk to you about wage labor and sort of mutualist anarchism and synthesisist anarchism versus ANCAP anarchism.
	And, you know, I'm familiar with the ANCAP position on wage labor, but I really don't find it acceptable.
	And I know that it comes back to, like, an absolutist view of property rights.
	Sorry, what do you mean?
	Sorry, what do you mean by acceptable?
	Do you mean for you, like you wouldn't want it?
	No, I mean morally.
	Oh, so it's immoral?
	Is that right?
	Yeah, and I'm not trying to be the moralist here or something, but the basic nature of anarchism… If you're coming and saying that wage labor is immoral, then you are being a moralist.
	I'm not trying to criticize you.
	I'm just pointing out that if you jump out of a plane in a hang glider and then you say, well, I'm trying not to be that hang glider guy, it's like, well, you kind of are, right?
	And it's not a problem.
	It's just, let's be clear about that.
	First of all, I'd like to say that, you know, I saw your critique of Karl Marx, and I think that was excellent.
	Bakunin, you know, had the same kind of critiques of Marx's ideas, and you did a good job showing how his life was, you know, fell far, far short of what he was claiming, you know, as an ideal.
	Sorry, again, to be annoyingly precise, Marx's life did not fall short.
	of his ideals.
	He lived in complete opposition to his ideals.
	You know, if I say I'm going to go one mile, but I go ten feet, that's falling short.
	If I go a mile in the opposite direction, that's a different matter.
	But I just want to be precise about that.
	But go ahead.
	So do you have a question or a comment?
	So let's make sure we get to the heart of the matter for you.
	Yeah, I mean, I want to talk about wage labor and the nature of wage labor.
	It's something that is a hierarchical, pyramidal, hierarchical kind of model between people.
	And the foundation of anarchism, the foundation of anarchism, is just really one concept, and that is that you don't place anyone beneath you in any capacity, and you accept no one above you in any capacity.
	Now, hold on now.
	You're incorrect about that.
	I mean, you're just not correct about that.
	I'm sorry, this is just...
	Anarchism technically means no rulers, which means that anarchism is the rejection of coercive hierarchies.
	It doesn't mean that there aren't hierarchies in the world.
	You want to go back to the Greek definition of anarchism.
	Even Bakunin says, he says, do I reject all authority?
	Heavens no!
	When it comes to fixing my shoes, I defer to the authority of the shoemaker.
	So it's the coercion aspect that's important, not the hierarchy.
	Exactly.
	I mean, if you are in a coercive position over someone else in any capacity, then you're an authority in that sense.
	Not an authority as someone that's an engineer that understands engineering and you defer to them for their engineering That's an authority in engineering.
	An authority that's over you that has a right to give you an order and...
	I feel that you're rambling, if you don't mind me saying so.
	So if you want to make the case that wage labor is coercive, I'm certainly happy to hear it.
	But let's really try and cut to the chase here.
	Okay.
	People at the very lowest part of the economic spectrum...
	They experience coercion instead of a voluntary sort of relationship with wage labor.
	Your position generally is that, no, it's totally voluntary.
	They can walk away if they want.
	But that's what has created the abuse of poor people for thousands of years is this idea of like absolutist property rights and the idea that it's okay to have someone beneath you, not as a partner, not as an equal partner, but as someone that you can pay them the least amount that they'll be willing to accept.
	And that's somehow a moral concept.
	And anarchism is completely opposed.
	I know you want to go back to the Greek definition of anarchism, but what I'm saying is the...
	Okay, so I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we've been talking for like, I don't know, 13 or 14 minutes.
	You need to make an argument rather than statements, right?
	I mean, if you want to come on a philosophy show and so on, then mere statements aren't enough.
	So, just saying that they experience coercion is not an argument.
	You're just saying something.
	I'm trying to have a conversation with you.
	Hang on a second.
	So, it's not what people are paid, it's how much value have they created in themselves.
	So, let's say somebody is 18.
	And let's say that that person has wasted a lot of time in their teenage years.
	In other words, they've pursued hedonistic pleasures that have not added to their human capital, to their economic value to other people.
	Right?
	So, I mean, just, you know, some kid who's, you know, played a lot of video games and watched a lot of movies and all that, you know, and has not spent time Reading or learning skills or whatever, right?
	Learning how to program a computer, learning how to fix a car, all that kind of stuff.
	Let me finish my point and then I'll be quiet.
	No, I need to finish my point and then I'll be quiet.
	So I was starting to read from a very early age, and I started reading philosophy, started reading economics.
	I was reading Harvard Business Review in my teens, God help me.
	And so when it came time to be in the business world, I had deferred a lot of pleasure and worked pretty hard to increase my economic value.
	I had also written a lot, which really helps increase your language skills and so on.
	So I guess my question is, If someone is at the very bottom rung of the economic ladder, given that there are free libraries and free internet access in those libraries, I mean, I spent lots of time going to libraries and reading.
	I came from a poor household, spent lots of time going to libraries and reading, and spent lots of time with a 5-cent pencil and a 10-cent pad of paper, writing stories and poems and novels and essays and so on.
	And so when it came time for me to be in the business world, I had, although I came from a poor background and a pretty terrible school system, I had pretty good skills and that really helped me to advance economically.
	So my question is, people don't just end up at the bottom end of the economic ladder.
	There are choices which can affect your value and people are to some degree the authors of their own destiny in the economic sphere and even where they start.
	Okay, that's it for me, but go ahead.
	Okay, so this is exactly what your friend Peter Schiff was saying.
	He's saying that retarded people are only worth $2 and you're worth what you're worth.
	But I think that you're right in that, you know, like, People have a certain amount of value that they bring to something, but typically they rely on other people for these things.
	So if you're in a position to help someone because you've got a business idea that works, let's say, the mutualist or synthesis position would be that you put your hand down To someone who needs a position, you make them a partner.
	They come on, they suddenly have the same kind of ownership, and they have the same respect, and they view themselves as equal to you, and they get the same kind of benefits from that position, and they take ownership of that thing, instead of having a top-down...
	Sorry to interrupt, but let me just help you understand.
	I would imagine that you've built a business and put this into place in your business relationships.
	And how has that worked out?
	I mean, because there's not much point talking about these things theoretically, right?
	I mean, you really have to have practiced them to find out whether they work or not.
	So in your entrepreneurial experience, how has bringing on, say, 18-year-old people and giving them equality to you as an owner, how has that worked out?
	Well, how does it work out not doing that for you?
	How has it worked out for you in your life?
	Well, I've been self-employed before.
	There was a period for about five years where I was self-employed, but I didn't need employees for what I was doing.
	So that's where it was.
	At that point in my life...
	Hang on.
	So there was no economic value in you hiring people, so you didn't hire people.
	Right.
	So do you get...
	That?
	Why that's important?
	I don't see how it invalidates my point, and it's not invalidating my point, Stefan.
	You did not find people to be economically valuable to hire them, so you didn't hire them.
	In the same way that if somebody doesn't find somebody economically valuable to pay more, you didn't find anyone worth even one penny an hour, so you didn't hire them.
	In the same way, if somebody who's an employer doesn't find somebody who's worth ten dollars an hour, they don't pay them ten dollars an hour.
	It's exactly the same principle.
	You weren't willing to go up from zero and other people aren't willing to go up from 10 or 20 or 50 or whatever, right?
	You made an economic calculation which says there is no economic value for me hiring anyone.
	In other words, your ceiling, your maximum that you were willing to pay someone was zero dollars and you refused to pay any more than that, which is fine with me.
	I mean, this is your decision.
	It's your business, but it's exactly the same as everyone else.
	As a metalsmith, you know, it's a different situation.
	No, it's not a different situation.
	It really doesn't matter what the business is.
	It's a mass production sort of situation.
	I'm sorry?
	Because it's not a mass production sort of situation.
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	I'm just going to have to move on.
	I'm not really feeling that this conversation is going anywhere.
	We're not really having any agreement on principles or reason or evidence.
	Thank you very much for your call.
	Mike, who do we have up next?
	All right, Isaac.
	You're up next, Isaac.
	Go ahead.
	Hello.
	Hi, Isaac.
	How are you doing?
	Hi, Stefan.
	Nice to meet you, Stefan.
	Thank you so much for your show.
	My pleasure.
	What's on your mind?
	Thank you, Michael.
	Yes, Stefan, I listened to your show about like a year or so and I really liked it and it changed me a lot.
	I really thank you for that.
	I was born in Burma, and I moved to the United States when I was about 18 years old.
	I've been living here for like five years or so.
	Currently, I don't have a job, but I'm going to a community college right now.
	My major is philosophy.
	I have some questions about self-esteem and stuff like that because I find that I have really low self-esteem.
	What are your questions?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	So when I listened to your show, I learned about self-therapy and talking with therapists.
	I go to the therapist's school, too.
	I'm sorry to interrupt you.
	I understand that you're nervous.
	And this is a general comment to all the people who call in.
	Please get to your question.
	If you have questions that are specific, I assume that you've booked this a month or two in advance, so you've had some time to prepare your questions, and so I just need you to get to a question, whatever the core of your issue is.
	And I'm happy to answer it, but in the interest of respect for hundreds of thousands of listeners' time, you really do need to just focus on a question, and then we can talk from there.
	Yes, yes.
	My question is like, how do I, with the relationship with my friends and stuff, I found my friends really shallow, so how do I find better people in my life?
	Why do you accept friends who are shallow?
	Because there's two possibilities.
	Either the people around you have no capacity for depth, Or they do, but you're not bringing those topics up and they're not bringing those topics up.
	So you're either trying to speak Japanese to people who simply don't speak Japanese, or you want to speak Japanese to people who do speak Japanese, but for some reason neither of you are using the language.
	So why do you think it is that you are not introducing topics of depth into your relationships?
	Well, I do.
	Some of them, they like talking about this deep conversation.
	What I mean shallow is I don't find them, you know, I think they're not thriving in their life, too.
	I don't find myself, too, where I should be.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	Sorry.
	Do you mean...
	Yes.
	Did you mean shallow or a failure to thrive?
	Because those two are not exactly the same.
	It's kind of like...
	Yeah, failure to thrive, I think.
	And what was thriving?
	What does thriving mean to you, and how do you know that they're failing to achieve that?
	Well, I found that they were just not wanting to become a better person, even though they can be.
	No, I understand, but what does better mean?
	Better how?
	Yeah, better like...
	In school or at jobs or in relationships and stuff.
	So are you asking me why people don't want to improve in relationships and jobs and money and stuff?
	Yes.
	Because there are benefits to not improving.
	And there are costs to improving.
	I mean, if you want to know why people are doing stuff in general, the first place to start is a cost-benefit analysis.
	And the reason for that is that philosophy remains a largely unknown discipline.
	And if I'm right in my approach to philosophy, it remains a very early or primitive discipline.
	So people don't make decisions based upon abstract principles of virtue.
	What they do is like, so people don't tell the truth or lie based upon some abstract dedication to truth or falsehood.
	What they do is they say, what are the costs and benefits of telling the truth at this moment?
	And what are the costs and benefits of lying at this moment?
	And a lot of people do that just in the moment.
	Like, boom!
	If I tell the truth now, what's going to happen in the next 10 seconds or 50 seconds or a minute or two?
	Smarter people, which is not to say more moral people, but smarter people, what they do is they say, well, if I lie now, what's going to happen in a month or five months or a year or two years or five years?
	And they make their decisions based upon consequences.
	They do not make their decisions based on any dedication to any kind of abstract principles.
	This is really important.
	Human beings are...
	Base mammalian cost-benefit machines at the moment.
	I don't believe that's where we'll always be, but that's kind of where we are now.
	So if you're looking at people and saying, well, why are they doing these incomprehensible things?
	Or why are they doing these things that I don't think are smart or wise?
	It's because of two reasons.
	Either one, their cost-benefit calculation is different from yours, or number two, their cost-benefit calculations are the same as yours, but you're working in a different timeframe.
	So someone who is emotionally defensive, who lies to someone for the sake of emotional defensiveness, is looking at a very short timeframe, right?
	And how do I survive?
	And flourish in the next five minutes.
	How do I not get caught in the next five minutes?
	They don't care about the long-term effects because they're just not thinking that far ahead.
	So if you want to understand why people do what they do, all you have to say is what is their cost-benefit calculation and what time frame are they using?
	So if you look at Chris Christie, the guy who in New Jersey was recently, there was a scandal where they closed some bridges and To punish the mayor of some neighboring town who didn't support his re-election bid or whatever.
	Now, Chris Christie in the press conference is focused on surviving the press conference.
	Does he care about what happens a month from now?
	No, not really.
	Now, some people, some lawyers claim that they now have proof that he knew of the bridge closure and why it was happening, while it was happening and so on.
	That's something to be dealt with in the future.
	You can spin that in the future.
	And so he's just, he's not making any moral.
	I mean, God, good Lord, he's a politician.
	He's not making any kind of moral judgment.
	He is making a judgment on what is going to benefit him in the short run.
	What is the greatest cost-benefit calculation he can make in the short run?
	And that is to deny, deny, deny, which is what politicians always do.
	And if they're caught, they're caught.
	And then later, if they're exposed, they'll ignore it, and then after they're exposed, they'll spin it again, right?
	So Bill Clinton, recently after the death of Nelson Mandela, was telling all of these stories about how when he was facing his own persecution, Bill Clinton that is, that Nelson Mandela told him to stay strong and to hang in there and to, you know, like...
	Fighting apartheid is somehow equivalent to lying about blowjobs.
	So there's just this constant spin.
	And when you're around people who have that level of unreality, your own reality gets washed away.
	What they used to call Steve Jobs' reality distortion field.
	Well, I mean, sociopaths have that in general, right?
	They'll just try and survive in the moment.
	They don't care about the long term because there is no long term.
	And Eliot Spitzer gets his own TV show after...
	Corruption and bribery and paying for hookers on the taxpayers' dime.
	And so you can get away with just about anything these days because there are no principles.
	So people don't make decisions based on principles.
	And so if you want to know why your friends are doing what they're doing, you look at the cost-benefit analysis that they're working with.
	And then what you do is you look at their time frame.
	So people who grew up in abusive households who end up in abusive relationships are just making a cost-benefit calculation, which I understand.
	I understand that.
	The cost-benefit calculation is roughly something like this.
	Well, if I say no to the abuse in this relationship, then I'm going to inevitably be led to saying no to the abuse in all of my relationships.
	If I say no To the abuse in all of my relationships, given that I grew up in an abusive household, my whole family of origin relationships are going to be threatened and may crack.
	And I know how to navigate this abusive environment.
	I don't know how to navigate a non-abusive environment.
	And my abuse left me exquisitely vulnerable and sensitive to feelings of incompetence and rejection and therefore if I let go of the abusive world and go to the non-abusive world I will feel vulnerable and incompetent which provokes my inner anxiety and therefore I'm going to stick with the familiar.
	It's just a cost-benefit calculation.
	That's all it is.
	Now it's not a very long-term cost-benefit calculation to say the least.
	Parents who spank We're focusing on short-term cost-benefit calculations.
	And, you know, I get compliance in the here and now.
	I feel authority in the here and now.
	I eliminate the cause of my frustration, which is my child's defiance in the here and now.
	And they really don't give much of a shit about the long-term consequences, particularly if they themselves were spanked and remain close to their parents or claim that they do, right?
	So I'm sorry for this long-winded answer, but it's just all you do is you look at human beings like robots.
	Most human beings, there are some exceptions, there are some people who will do that which is unpopular and difficult for the sake of integrity to principle.
	But these people are, even the celebrated people we think do that rarely do that.
	So they're extremely rare people.
	You want to become one of those people so other people can find you, at least on the internet, we can find each other now.
	But human beings are just machines, utilitarian machines of cost-benefit calculations, and that's Almost for certain, if you're looking at someone's behavior, that is exactly how their motivations will become clear.
	Does that make any sense?
	Yes, I'm very clear.
	Thank you.
	I have another question, Stephen.
	Can I ask you?
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	How do I develop my self-esteem?
	How do I make my self-esteem better?
	I found that sometimes I get really nervous and stuff, like people that I don't know.
	When I'm alone, I'm okay, but when I meet with other people and stuff, you know.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	I would assume that's because you have a history as a child of having been attacked by people, right?
	Yes, I think.
	Yeah.
	Well, don't let me tell you.
	If that's not the case, then it's something else, right?
	So, were you spanked?
	Were you criticized?
	Were you rejected?
	Was there over-authoritarianism, I guess, in your upbringing?
	Yeah, I remember I used to get hit a lot by, like, not even spanked with a stick with my mom and my dad.
	My dad sometimes punched me in the face and stuff.
	And I have three elder sisters.
	Only then I moved to the U.S. I become alone.
	Right.
	So human beings are very dangerous predators, in your experience.
	They can be, right?
	Yes.
	So let me tell you how to improve your self-esteem, at least as I think.
	So imagine you're going to a petting zoo and there are two enclosures.
	One of them has cute little deer, baby deer.
	The other one Has giant, gaunt, hungry, man-eating tigers?
	Yes.
	Now, imagine how stressful it would be if you didn't know the difference between tigers and deer.
	You didn't know which one was friendly, you didn't know which one was hungry, and you had no idea.
	You had to go to one or the other, you couldn't leave, let's just say, and you didn't know the difference.
	difference, you would have a pretty stressful time of it, right?
	Yes.
	Now, further imagine that these animals had the magical ability to change shape, right?
	In other words, the tigers had the ability to appear to you as if they were deer.
	And then you'd know that there are tigers somewhere, but you couldn't tell the difference between the deer and the tigers.
	But you had to go into one enclosure or the other.
	Wouldn't that be pretty terrifying?
	It is.
	Now, if you could tell the difference between the deer and the tigers, you'd just go and pet the deer, right?
	It'd probably be quite a nice experience.
	But if you couldn't tell the difference between the deer and the tigers, then you would have a pretty stressful time of it, right?
	Now, people who are abusive, particularly towards children, when you get older, they shape-shift from tigers to deer.
	Because they don't have the same kind of power over you and they wish to further abuse and undermine your rationality and experience by pretending that what happened, the violence that happened, didn't happen.
	The abuse that happened didn't happen.
	So, if you want to feel secure and safe and have the greatest chance for happiness in this world, then you need You need to figure out who are the deer and who are the tigers.
	So, understanding who the tigers are involves sometimes some personal anxiety.
	In other words, if you stick your arm through the fence and the, quote, deer lunges at it with its mouth open, then it's a tiger.
	But you've got to stick your arm through the fence, right?
	Yes.
	And so, when people come from abusive backgrounds, my recommendation is that if you can do it safely, you talk to your parents about the problems that happened in your childhood.
	How?
	Because that's putting your arm through the fence.
	Right?
	And if your parents are dismissive, if they attack you, if they get angry at you, if they withdraw, if they tell you that you're wrong, if they do all of this manipulation, then, hey, tigers!
	Now, if you can see tigers in your history, you can see tigers in your future.
	If you cannot see tigers in your history, you cannot see tigers in your future.
	And you will live this life of fear because you won't know.
	You won't know who you can pet and who's going to rip your fucking arm off, right?
	Now, when I asked you about your history, the first thing that you did was kind of downplay it and say, not really.
	It wasn't a problem kind of thing.
	And then when I asked you specifically...
	Now, then you said, yes, I was punched in the face and I was hit a lot, which I'm incredibly sorry for.
	Now, that first moment – you've got to go back and listen to this again – that first moment where I asked you about your history of having been attacked by people and you downplayed it, that was your historical tigers turning into deer.
	That was the shapeshift moment.
	Boom!
	Right there.
	And if I had not persisted in my questioning, that's where they would have stayed.
	So, all the tigers in your history, once you become an adult, want to pretend that they are deer, to fuck with you and to keep you close, you know, in case they get hungry.
	So, the important thing with you, in my opinion, if you want to gain self-esteem and security The very important thing is to talk to your parents about the problems that you had as a child, if you can do it in a place of physical safety, and find out how they react.
	If they burst into tears and promise to go to therapy and have to pay for therapy for you and talk about their history and do even remotely decent and honorable things, that's helpful, I think.
	That can be a positive thing all around.
	If they don't, then you will at least see them clearly and consciously as a free adult for the tigers that they are.
	And if you can see the tigers in your history, you will be able to see the tigers in your future, and you will not be tempted by the enclosure, which is really a cage, and you will be able to surround yourself with peaceful people.
	Does that make any sense?
	Yes, it does.
	I know my parents hit me a lot and stuff like that, but sometimes I found that they have a laugh on me too.
	I agree with you that they were abusive when I was a child.
	But sometimes I love them too, but I don't want to confirm them.
	I'm not telling you you can't claim to love them.
	I mean, you can do whatever you want.
	But if love cohabits in your mind with being punched in the face repeatedly, then you will never be safe in this life.
	Because if you think that love and punching you as a helpless child in the face repeatedly and hitting you repeatedly, assaulting you repeatedly, if that coexists with love for you, then it's like you could even see the tigress but you want to go into the cage and get eaten.
	It doesn't.
	Punching people in the face does not coexist with loving them.
	It doesn't mean that your parents woke up every morning saying, how can we make this child's life terrible and we hate him and hate him and hate him, and they may have claimed that they love.
	But I'm an empiricist.
	I don't care what people say.
	I don't care what theories Marx has.
	I care how he lived, first and foremost.
	And I don't care what your parents said.
	I don't even care how you feel about them.
	I care about the evidence, the physical evidence.
	I am an empiricist.
	The physical evidence that you've talked about was repeated hitings and repeated punchings in the face.
	Can you tell me under what theory that coexists with love?
	It doesn't.
	It doesn't.
	It doesn't, yes.
	No, it doesn't.
	Because then, if someone comes up and says, I love you in the future, then for you, that can mean that they can punch you in the face and still love you.
	Love for you Love cannot include being punched in the face.
	I mean, the things I have to say in this show, and it's not your fault, it's just our completely screwed up culture.
	But love cannot include being punched in the face.
	It can't.
	Because you can't use the same word for people who punch you in the face and people who don't punch you in the face.
	I have two friends.
	I love them both equally.
	One punches me in the face, the other one does not.
	You understand?
	That can't make any sense.
	Yes.
	It's like saying, I value this car ten times more than that car, but I won't pay a penny more for it.
	It's contradictory, right?
	Yes.
	So it is not acceptable in any moral universe.
	It is not acceptable for you having history of being punched in the face and assaulted by your parents.
	That is not love.
	That is not caring.
	That is not concern.
	That is abuse.
	It does not magically coexist with love.
	You know, I had a little lump of cancer in my throat last year.
	Now, most of my body had no cancer.
	Do I then get to say, well, I'm perfectly healthy?
	Or I'm very much almost perfectly healthy because most of my body has no cancer?
	No!
	The cancer eclipses everything!
	I'm sick and might die.
	And when you get punched in the face, that kind of eclipses everything else.
	It destroys love in a relationship.
	And I want you to see that and to get that so that you will never accept any kind of behavior in your life that's within a thousand miles of that from anyone, anywhere, at any time.
	You know, Mike jumps off the couch, pile drives me in the head because he's watched too much wrestling.
	As if you can.
	I don't sit there and say, well, Mike and I have known each other for a couple of years, and in that time, he has vastly spent more time not punching me in the head than punching me in the head.
	Right?
	Yes.
	We don't look at someone who's killed someone, murdered someone, and say, well, The guy's 40.
	For 40 years, he didn't kill anyone.
	Then he killed one guy and it took him one minute.
	One minute out of 40 years.
	It's lost in the mix.
	It dissolves in the majority.
	No.
	We say, hey, that guy killed someone.
	I don't care what he did for 40 years before, he just killed someone.
	We don't get him off the hook because the vast majority of his time was spent not killing people, right?
	One incidence of violence is definitive in a relationship.
	One incidence of violence is definitive in a relationship and reveals that it's not a relationship.
	Now, I don't mean you snap at someone because you've got a headache and you're tired or whatever it is.
	I mean, it doesn't mean you've got to be perfect, right?
	But I don't get to punch my friends or my daughter or my wife and say, oh, come on, you've known me for years.
	This is the first time.
	Forget it.
	It's like a sunspot on the sun, it's still bright enough to wear shades, right?
	The punching in the face, particularly when you're a helpless, independent child, defines the relationship, particularly if it's neither acknowledged nor apologized for, nor is restitution made.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, they never say about those things.
	I know that they've never apologized because you're still defending them.
	And that is the price that you will have to pay to stay in a relationship with them is to pretend that you were not beaten up.
	Right?
	Now that's too high a price for me.
	Everyone can make their own choice.
	I'm just trying to give you the clear choice.
	I won't be in relationships where I have to pretend things didn't happen that did happen.
	I won't be in a relationship with insanity and the avoidance of reality.
	I just, I won't do it because it's not a relationship.
	That's subjugation.
	Yeah, but I don't really...
	They live in my home country.
	Here I live by myself, so...
	I don't really contact them either.
	No, they live in your head.
	Doesn't matter where they are.
	They're in your head.
	My parents are in my head.
	Your parents are in your head.
	Yes.
	So even if you don't see them more than once a year, they have a massive effect on you, right?
	Yes.
	So I think that moral clarity is where your confidence will arise.
	You cannot be confident in a state of perpetual danger and you will forever remain In a state of perpetual danger, if you cannot identify the predators in your life, which they don't want you to identify, right?
	They don't want you to see them for who they are.
	Hmm.
	It's true.
	How do I get rid of them?
	I mean, how do you get rid of the after effects of this kind of trauma?
	Yes, that kind of affects if they're in my head.
	Well, this is what therapy and self-work and all of that is for.
	And if you're in school, of course, you have access to subsidized or free therapy, which I would strongly recommend pursuing.
	But I've gone over this a number of times in other shows.
	It's a common question, but there's no easy answer.
	Moral clarity and the pursuit of self-knowledge, that's really the best advice that I can give you.
	You know, work with Nathaniel Brandon's books on self-esteem.
	You can work with John Bradshaw's book on self-knowledge, sentence completion exercises, understanding your dreams, talking to people about your thoughts and feelings, allowing yourself to process all of the rage and fear that comes out of being repeatedly punched in the face as a child.
	The processing of the emotions gives you clarity.
	And the most important emotions we need to process are our moral feelings.
	Moral feelings are just kicked out of us as children.
	Through morally hypocritical instruction, you know, don't hit while hitting your kids kind of stuff.
	And I would really focus on that.
	I think that is the best way for you to become safe.
	Okay.
	Thank you so much, Deepvan.
	You're very welcome.
	And I'm, again, incredibly sorry for what happened to you as a child.
	It's just unbelievably wrong.
	Yes, I will try to work it out.
	I'm going to therapy too, but yeah, I feel I have to do it on my own too.
	I can't really rely on the therapist and stuff.
	I will do those exercises that you told me.
	A therapist is like a nutritionist.
	You have to change your diet, right?
	The majority of work in therapy occurs outside the therapist's office, at least in my experience.
	All right.
	Well, thank you very much for your call, and I appreciate your courage in this issue, and again, I'm incredibly sorry for what happened.
	All right, Mike, who do we have next?
	Yes.
	All right, Casey.
	You're up next.
	Go ahead, Casey.
	Hi.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Can you hear me okay?
	I can.
	What's the good one, Casey?
	Okay.
	So...
	I also have had self-esteem issues, but it's more like self-hating.
	And I also have issues letting go of people who have violated me, like my parents and my so-called friends who raped me when I was 15.
	What do you mean?
	Do you mean metaphorically raped you or literally physically raped you?
	Like, well...
	More like they did something in front of me and I was kind of involved but at the same time not.
	It's really awkward and really disturbed me.
	I'm not sure what that means and you don't have to talk about anything you're not comfortable with but that's very um sorry very absent.
	They um got me drunk and said that they loved me and You know, they were, I think, four years older than me.
	And they said, oh, we love you.
	We love you more than we thought, like, more than just a friend.
	We love you as in, like, a lover.
	And they're married now.
	And they're like, oh, we can all live together and be happy.
	And they're pretending to be supportive, but really they never were.
	They, um, after they got me drunk, they pretty much touched me in, you know, places, and then eventually they had sex in front of me, and it was just a really awkward situation.
	Traumatized me.
	Yeah, to put it mildly.
	And you were 15 at this time?
	Yeah.
	God almighty.
	And I was staying over at their house.
	Where was your family?
	I was staying a night at their house for, I think, a week.
	I was visiting them because my family was like, oh, they're just friends.
	OK, yeah, you can go spend a week with them.
	You know, they didn't think anything of it.
	Of course, I didn't because I was 15 and I thought they were my friends.
	And I didn't realize what happened until literally like two months ago when I was talking to my boyfriend about this because we started listening to your show and I was like, oh, my God.
	That's what happened in my life, really?
	Right.
	I'm sorry.
	No, don't apologize, good lord.
	I mean, of all the things that you're talking about, your apology is the least required.
	I mean, so, okay, so let me sort of understand.
	So, you didn't tell your parents, I mean, not criticize, I'm just curious, you didn't tell your parents about what was happening with this married couple at the time that it was happening, right?
	No.
	No.
	At the time they were dating, I think they were 18.
	But, yeah, I didn't tell my parents anything about this.
	In fact, well, my best friend...
	Well, my parents thought of me as a troubled teenager.
	I was already going through issues where...
	I forget if this was before or after I... I told people I was going to commit suicide because I wanted to get back at my family.
	Kind of.
	Right.
	And why did you want to get back?
	My parents were divorced.
	In your family.
	Why did you want to get back at your family?
	Because my dad got remarried.
	My dad got remarried and pretty much picked my stepmother over me.
	Like, we couldn't spend any time together anymore.
	Like, she's like, oh, well...
	I want to spend time with you guys too.
	We couldn't have father-daughter moments.
	We never had meaningful conversations, but we really couldn't do things together anymore.
	It was my stepmother, my dad, and me all of a sudden when I wanted to be with my dad.
	And I pretty much lost my dad to this vile woman who has made my life hell ever since she came into my life.
	And how did she make your life hell?
	She'll start arguments with me over how I treated my dad when I was a teenager.
	And she's just very...
	How do you put it?
	I guess narcissistic.
	They're from the baby boomer generation, my parents.
	Not to generalize, because I know that's not the right thing to do.
	but they are from that age range.
	And pretty much I felt like I was abandoned my entire childhood and teen years. - Right.
	I'm so sorry.
	Were you physically punished by your parents as well or was it mostly emotional stuff?
	I was mostly emotional.
	They would ground me and things like that.
	Say, hey, you can't leave the house.
	You can't go play with your friends.
	We're going to take your video games from you.
	I remember once when I was four or something like that, my dad was supposed to spank me and instead he just sat in the room and talked to me while I cried my eyes out because he was pretty much wasn't talking.
	It was yelling.
	He yelled a lot.
	And I don't remember really being spanked too much.
	Right.
	Mostly just isolated.
	I'm an only child and they divorced when I was seven.
	And they yelled a lot before that with each other.
	So you grew up in a pretty stressful environment, right?
	To say the least.
	Yeah.
	I mean even before the divorce, right?
	Oh yeah.
	I heard them yelling a lot.
	And I just could never talk to them because it's either if I spoke up, I don't know if I would get yelled at.
	I just kind of became kind of, I don't know the right word for it, complacent, I guess.
	Complicit?
	Like, okay.
	Yeah, maybe that.
	I just kind of went, okay, I'm just going to roll with it.
	I'm just going to be quiet.
	Don't do anything.
	Don't get yelled at.
	Right.
	Stuff like that.
	Yeah, you know, just I was thinking about the thought that happened when you were talking about your dad sort of sitting down with you and so on.
	And I'm sorry that she was, that he was yelling at you and that's just terrible.
	But I thought about this when I was talking to my daughter this morning about internalizing things that you need to do or want to do so you don't end up being bossed around by other people and told what to do your whole life.
	And I was very aware that I was giving her a lecture.
	Oh, so aware that I was giving her a lecture.
	And oh my God, did I ever fucking hate parental lectures and lectures from authority when I was a kid.
	I hated them.
	From teachers, from priests, from parents, from older kids.
	I mean, I just hated those lectures.
	They were always grinding and humiliating and horrible and it was never a conversation.
	I give maybe one lecture every six months to my daughter, but I'm really aware that I have to make it into a conversation.
	I have to not be negative, condemnatory, critical, and it has to be a conversation.
	Not just, well, here's what you need to do, and you know you've disappointed me in this way.
	I'd never do anything like that.
	I have to resist that gravity well and make it into a conversation.
	Look, I am a lot older than she is, and I do have some wisdom and some knowledge and so on.
	So there's things that I want to impart to her, but I never want it to be a lecturer.
	That is, um, it's a great challenge.
	I don't think it'll be, hopefully it won't be as much of a challenge for her as it is for me, but I can feel myself like a train slipping into those tracks of lecture mode when I have something of importance to impart and I have to like grit my teeth and jump the track and go back off that stuff.
	So, I mean, that's just a minor thing here and there, but, um, that is pretty monstrous.
	So you had these 18 year old married friends of you or were they friends of your parents?
	I mean, how did you even meet them?
	The girl was the cousin of my best friend in high school.
	And we met when I was 13.
	We went over to her house when she lived with her parents still.
	And we were like, yay, we like the same things.
	We all like anime, video games, drawing, things like that.
	And we were like, oh yeah, we're great friends.
	Well, I became better friends with her than my best friend from high school.
	And this was before she was married, right?
	Did she have the boyfriend at the time?
	When I first met her, she wasn't dating him yet, but then when I stayed at their house that night, or that week, I should say, they were still dating, but they got married maybe three years ago.
	They've been together since they've gotten out of high school.
	Right.
	Now, what did you know about their family history?
	Well...
	I mean, were there any clues?
	I guess that's my question.
	Yeah.
	I should have seen them at the time.
	Let's put it that way.
	Well, they were probably, you know, to be fair, they were probably kind of eclipsed by your family, right?
	Yeah, her mom was very, very religious, but kind of to the point she was crazy.
	Was on lots of mental medications for depression and bipolar, probably, and things like that.
	And her now husband's family, his dad beat him a lot, and his mother is a very abusive person.
	Actually, she was on Monster In Law that show.
	she was on a reality tv show called monster in law where mother-in-laws are allowed to act like complete tyrants and people find it entertaining which is not right so i mean and the reason this is not at all to say you should have seen that when you were a kid i mean you were just surrounded by it all it's impossible to see right But
	now, first thing I try to find out about anyone who comes into my life is how was your childhood?
	In the same way that when I meet someone in a foreign country, the first thing we try and figure out is do we speak the same language?
	I don't just start chatting with them in English without trying to figure out whether they understand English.
	And that's, you know, we call this, I guess, exercises in self-protection, this show, right?
	Find out about people's childhoods.
	And if they say, oh, my childhood was really bad, ha, ha, ha, or my childhood was fine, you know, I mean, obviously I was a difficult kid and my parents had to beat the crap out of me, but I deserved it, and, you know, I'm glad that they did it.
	It's like, well, bye.
	Or, yeah, you know, I was spanked a lot, but, you know, I'm fine.
	Ha, ha, ha.
	Bye, right?
	That's horrible.
	Right, this kind of self-protection is really, really essential.
	You know, as I said, most people, as I said earlier to the first caller, most people simply make decisions based on cost-benefit calculations.
	So how do we change people who only make decisions on cost-benefit calculations?
	Well, we change their cost-benefit calculation.
	Appealing to parents to not hit their children because it's a violation of the non-aggression principle is not going to work because people don't make decisions based upon principles.
	And so what we do is we say, oh, you know what?
	If you beat your children, then your children may not want to see you.
	When they get older.
	So then they'll make a cost-benefit calculation and they'll say, well, you know, if I smack my children, if I scream at my children, if I am mean to my children, then they may not want to see me when they get older, so I'll change my behavior.
	I mean, it's really sad that we have to work at that level with the human species, but, you know, you build with the bricks you have, right?
	Not with the bricks you want.
	And so I'm incredibly sorry about all of this stuff.
	And there's something I mean, around sexual stuff with kids, there's something to me, this is sort of my personal thoughts on it, I certainly don't want to tell you what your experience was, but my personal thoughts are that it is, there's a different level of creepy and crazy when it comes to sexual stuff.
	You know, like hitting kids is immoral and evil and so on, but it's not creepy.
	But some of this sexual stuff with, I mean, you're 15, you're still a kid, right?
	Can't even drive a car.
	And this, the sexual stuff has a whole other layer or level of creepiness that seems to be pretty unique.
	I mean, there's a kind of sadism that's creepy as well.
	You know, kids tied to chairs and whipped with electrical cords and so on.
	That's more than just, I'm angry, I'm going to hit, like you step on a bear's toe and it knocks you over.
	There's a kind of sadism that I've certainly heard about from people's childhood and experienced to some degree in my own.
	And there's a real cold creepiness to that stuff, but the sexual stuff as well with kids is just a whole other level of interstellar ick, you know, just creepy.
	Again, I don't want to tell you what your experience is.
	Tell me if that makes any sense to you, what I'm saying.
	It does.
	I mean, I felt literally disgusting.
	Yeah.
	Until I talked about this to my boyfriend just about a month or two ago.
	And after I talked to him about it, I had issues with just letting them go.
	Letting what go?
	I removed them from my Facebook and those two people who raped me.
	Oh, that they were still sort of in your circle, so to speak?
	Yeah, I was still talking to them as of two months ago.
	Right.
	What was your boyfriend's reaction to your story?
	He was appalled.
	He was disgusted.
	He was the one who was like, you were raped!
	I didn't even realize what it was and he was wondering why I didn't step up and get angry for what they've done and like immediately I did not remove them from my life like that moment like there was I have well no I mean it's a shock right I mean you and this is why you know This is why society is so resolutely against talking about
	childhood and particularly talking about childhood trauma because the purpose of trauma, the purpose of abuse is to isolate and to make you feel ashamed for things that were inflicted upon you.
	An adult is supposed to be ashamed of a tattoo inflicted as a baby.
	The shame is on the inflictors, never on the victims.
	And so you not talking about your childhood is a shield.
	It serves the needs and is a shield for the abusers, right?
	Yeah.
	This conspiracy of silence about childhood only serves the needs of the abusers at the expense of the victims.
	So I'm incredibly glad that you talked about this with your boyfriend because in the conversation with others, through the conversation with others, The horror which the abusers wish to hide from us, the horror of what they did, with a sympathetic listener can become clear, right?
	But so you then did remove them from your social circle, is that right?
	Or your internet circle?
	Yeah, but I didn't...
	I but I know that they're going to contact me because they have my phone number.
	I just I have some.
	I can't tell them like something's holding me back and he did bring up something interesting like I also have a problem with.
	I some odd reason I feel like I can't defend not really defend, but tell them how I felt what they did to me like I cannot just remove them like I would love to have them just not in.
	Wait, wait.
	Why do you need to tell them about how you feel about what they did to you?
	You're associating that with removing them?
	I'm not sure.
	I want to understand what you mean by that.
	I just want them to never contact me again.
	Like, this is what you did to me.
	Feel bad.
	I don't want you in my life.
	Oh, no, but you can do that if you want, right?
	I mean, if you want, I mean, I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, right?
	It's up to you.
	But you can simply say to them, you know, I'm now aware of the sexual abuse I experienced at your hands.
	If you ever contact me in any way, shape, or form, I'm going straight to the police.
	It is sexual abuse to have sex in front of you.
	I never thought of that.
	You just say, I'm going straight to the cops and good luck with all that if you ever contact me in any way she'll perform again.
	I'm pretty sure that'll do it because, again, people make cost-benefit calculations, right?
	Yeah, but I don't even think they would even know that what they did to me was abuse.
	Oh, come on.
	Come on.
	Did they hide it?
	Did they chat about it with your parents?
	Yeah, but at the same time, they're like, oh, no.
	They did tell my best friend's mother, like, oh, yeah, she kissed Casey, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	Did they tell anyone about having sex in front of you?
	No.
	So they know.
	I mean, you get the insanity defense if you don't try and hide your crime.
	The insanity defense, which comes out of common law, not government law, the insanity defense is you did not know that it was wrong at the time that you were doing it.
	And if you want to maintain that defense, you did not know that it was wrong afterwards.
	But if they did not do it in public, and they lied about it and hid it, then they knew that it was abusive.
	They knew that it was wrong.
	Right?
	People say this, my parents, they weren't in control of their behavior.
	Well, that's a testable thesis, right?
	It's a testable hypothesis.
	Did they know whether it was wrong?
	That's a testable hypothesis.
	And the test is, did they hide it?
	And if they hit it, knew it was wrong, 100% moral responsibility.
	So I didn't need to tell them about anything, so it was okay for me to just take them away from my circle without saying anything.
	They don't believe that you're under any obligation to tell sexual abusers that you're upset with them.
	Look, if they had any capacity to process your upset, they wouldn't have done all of these wildly sexually inappropriate things, right?
	Right.
	Right.
	So, empirically, and again, we don't have to guess.
	These are facts.
	Abusers, by definition, don't care how you feel.
	Sadists care how you feel in this opposite universe.
	Oh, you don't like that.
	I'll do more of that.
	Oh, you do like that.
	I'll do less of it.
	Right?
	You never tell a sadist what you don't like, right?
	Or do like.
	Because they're in opposite universe, right?
	And so clearly they were acting on their own selfish, screwed up needs at your expense.
	So then going to them and saying, I'm upset, when they clearly don't care about your feelings because of what they did, would be not to have learned from history.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, it makes sense.
	That makes complete sense.
	I think that you would only expose yourself to further damage from them.
	I mean, what are they going to do?
	Admit it?
	No, I'm not going to admit it.
	Because you might be recording them, as they would think, right?
	So they're going to deny.
	They're going to call you crazy.
	They're going to say it never happened.
	They're going to, whatever, threaten you.
	And you're going to walk out of there feeling like you've just been punched in the head by the giant hammer of Woden, right?
	And you're going to feel once more exploited and victimized.
	I think, you know, in terms of, again, the general self-protection theme of today's show, when people have shown you that they don't care about you in any way, shape or form, and that they will sacrifice your interests for their own needs, vulnerability is an act of self-abuse.
	It's like cutting yourself.
	Vulnerability around evil people is an act of self-abuse.
	Once you get it, once you know it, I'm not talking about in the past, right?
	Does that make any sense?
	It does.
	Now my question is, would you think of going to the cops anyway?
	Because these people will have exposure to other children throughout their lives, they may have their own children, and You not saying anything when you know that there are people who prey on children sexually around.
	If you don't say anything to anyone, then there is the risk that they will continue, right?
	And it's a significant risk.
	I mean, it's almost a certainty, right?
	Yeah, and I know how much they've always said, oh yeah, we want to have kids.
	I would.
	Something to think about.
	Again, I would talk to a lawyer, and I know it's not cheap and all that, but You know, just you may even be able to get some pro bono legal advice on this.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I don't know how lawyers work or anything, and I would obviously have to do research into that.
	But yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want...
	Yeah, call up a lawyer and say, listen, I'm a young woman who has this legal quandary.
	Can I get 10 minutes of free advice?
	A lot of lawyers will say, okay, right?
	Yeah.
	But I think that you are in a, and what a tragic situation to be in.
	I mean, I'm so sorry that you ever got exposed to anything like this.
	But I'm concerned that now that you have this knowledge, if you don't act on it for the protection of future children, that it may haunt you, right?
	Yeah.
	And I know that she's worked in daycare centers before and things like that.
	Yeah, well, again, I would talk to a lawyer and try and figure out what the options are and try and make a decision based on that.
	But you certainly don't want what happened to you to happen to other children as well, right?
	No, I don't.
	Nobody has to go through that.
	No, and this is the hard—you know, it's always the victims who have to take a stand, you know?
	And I'm incredibly sorry about that.
	I'm a victim of child abuse.
	I take a stand.
	All the healthy people who would find it easier to take a stand don't.
	It's always the goddamn victims who have to take a stand.
	Because that's, you know, a bit of a shitty planet that we live in.
	So I'm very sorry, but this is something that I think is important to mull over.
	Thank you.
	And thank you if you are able to protect future children, you can go to your grave, contend that your life has been a beacon of virtue and protection of the helpless.
	Was there anything else that you wanted to mention about this or any other topics?
	I know we kind of spent a long time on this one.
	Is there anything else that is on your mind?
	Well, there were a couple other things.
	Same kind of thing with my parents.
	I moved more than a thousand miles away from my parents and I still can't let them go in a sense of I don't know why I even bother calling them because I hate talking to my family.
	It drives me crazy and annoys me.
	Right.
	And the more I look back on my childhood, the angrier I get.
	And the more I feel like I just waste my time in calling them, like I call them maybe once a month now.
	And I don't want to, but I still do it anyway.
	I still keep them in my life.
	Right.
	And I had a conversation with my boyfriend.
	We talk a lot about these things.
	I'm glad the show has helped bring those conversations up to the forefront.
	I'm very happy about that.
	Yes, we have a very, very good, healthy relationship.
	And conversation came up about How my mother has always been on antidepressants almost my entire childhood and she, you know, how I felt that my mom never really wanted me.
	They were married for, oh I don't know, 18 years before they had me.
	And I remember my mom would tell me some things my dad would do or something she would do and like he slammed my hair in the shower door so I cut my hair off and things like that.
	And I'm like thinking in my head after I think about these things now, I'm like why did you stay with him and have a child?
	If you two weren't compatible or fought or abused each other, why would you even bother having a child?
	I remember my mom said, we conceived you over the Steelers football team losing.
	Hmm.
	Well, you know, I'm no doctor or psychiatrist, but as far as I understand it, antidepressants don't cure evil.
	No.
	So it may not be depression exactly, it may just be having a really shitty conscience for having been a really shitty parent.
	Yeah, and both my parents were really shitty parents.
	Well, I mean, I'll tell you something that was helpful to me with regards to parents.
	And you can do a search for women in abusive relationships, right?
	You do a search for that, and you can read lots of literature about women in abusive relationships.
	Now, they'll all talk about husbands, right?
	For the most part.
	Maybe fathers.
	But all you do is you read all of that stuff and you can actually just copy and paste it into a word processor and you can replace the word husband with parent.
	And you will get a very clear statement from society about what we should do about abusive relationships.
	So all you do is you replace the word husband for women with parent.
	Now that short circuits most people's brains completely.
	But it's very worthwhile.
	It's very worthwhile.
	Society is very clear about what we should do in abusive relationships.
	Now, society and culture, you know, kind of written by and dominated by parents, and a lot of those parents are pretty bad parents.
	You know, they say 93% who hit infants could be considered bad parents, to say the least.
	But Just do a search.
	What do people say that women should do if they are in abusive relationships?
	And what do you think that society would say?
	They tell them to leave.
	To get out.
	Right.
	And I've done the change parent with husband or Boyfriend and things like that and it's...
	I've cried a lot.
	Right.
	And my boyfriend, we've talked about this too, but he brought up something interesting that I like the idea of having physical parents.
	Sure.
	Like, I don't need them in my life.
	But I like the idea of having an actual physical family.
	And I did say something really interesting because my grandmother has Alzheimer's.
	I'm like, I hope my mother gets Alzheimer's so she forgets me.
	I said that.
	Right.
	Right.
	Well, but you criticized your mother for staying Right?
	Even though she was not, you know, it was a bad relationship.
	You think she should have left it if it was a bad relationship, right?
	Yeah.
	But yet she wanted to save her marriage and had me.
	Right.
	And then she's done a lot of Shitty things.
	Right.
	I'm going to read you something.
	It says, Are you brave enough to leave an abusive marriage?
	Right?
	Again, take marriage and put in parents.
	Are you brave enough to leave abusive parents?
	And there's just one little paragraph here.
	One day...
	The wives wake up or these women wake up and realize they can no longer perpetuate the happily ever after myth.
	Perhaps their spouse has had an affair, cut them off financially, grab them by the throat, or their survival instincts tell them they'd better make a plan to get out before it's too late.
	So one day you're going to wake up if you've had abusive parents.
	This advice for adult victims of abusive parents One day you wake up and realize you can no longer participate in the happily ever after myth of a good family with good parents.
	Perhaps your mother had an affair, perhaps your father has cut you off financially, or perhaps at some point in your childhood you were grabbed or pushed or hit, and your survival instincts are telling you to get out before it's too late.
	Knowing you are not alone is crucial, is so crucial to getting out of a husband who has had an affair, which is not a violation of the non-aggression principle, it's a violation of contract.
	You've got to get out.
	And that's what they say to women.
	You've got to get out.
	You've got to get out.
	But you replace husband with mother and suddenly, ugh!
	It's completely the opposite, right?
	But this is just bullshit.
	You know, sorry.
	It's just complete bullshit.
	And it is how society participates in the abuse of children and perpetuates the abuse of children.
	Yeah, like, um...
	So, I mean, you know, and if I'm wrong, listen, and I'm always happy to be corrected, right?
	And this goes out to everyone who's listening to this.
	If you can send me articles...
	From mental health professionals telling women to stay in abusive marriages, then I will revisit the issue.
	I mean, I've looked and I've looked.
	I can't find one that says, yes, you need to stay in an abusive marriage.
	Or, you know, you can break up with your abusive boyfriend, but you still need to go and visit him for Christmas.
	You can leave an abusive spouse, but make sure you stay in contact with him.
	Let him know where you live and make sure you call him every week.
	And if someone can send me the advice from mental health professionals for women to stay in abusive relationships, And these are chosen relationships.
	Parents aren't even chosen.
	Our standards should be infinitely higher.
	I will at least revisit this issue, but so far, and I put this out before, so far not one person has ever been able to send me an article from an accredited mental health professional saying, stay in relationships with abusive husbands, stay in relationships with abusive spouses.
	So I take my advice from society.
	Society doesn't like it when its advice is taken consistently, but that's too bad.
	Society should have thought about that before being hypocritical moral windbags to me throughout my entire childhood.
	Sorry I listened.
	So as far as your parents go, if the relationship is abusive, I mean, I don't tell people to leave their families.
	I mean, what's the point with that?
	What the point would that be?
	Self-knowledge, right?
	Therapy, all this sort of stuff.
	Figure out the truth, all that kind of stuff.
	I mean, that literally is like saying to fat people, eat less.
	I mean, what would that even mean?
	It doesn't help anyone.
	So with regards to your family, you know, talk to a therapist.
	And the reason that it's important to talk to the therapist is because there's a lot more formative history in families than there is in marriages.
	You get married generally when you're an adult.
	And there's such hysterical social prejudice against leaving an abusive family of origin that you need help just surviving the insane anti-fucking child bigotry in society.
	That puts the interests of abusive parents above the mental health of childhood victims.
	But, I mean, sorry, universality is universality.
	Don't blame me, blame reality.
	So does that help at all?
	Oh yeah.
	That helps a lot.
	Everyone who tells you to stay with an abusive parent is an abuser.
	I guarantee you.
	Everyone who tells you to stay with an abusive parent is an abuser.
	I'm sorry, you were about to say something and I quite rudely interrupted you.
	My apologies.
	Go ahead.
	I forgot what I was going to say.
	I'm sorry.
	Oh no, don't apologize.
	I'm sorry for interrupting you.
	I thought that was a pause.
	And is there anything else I can help you with?
	Well, I'm assuming I've helped you already.
	How presumptuous.
	Oh yeah, you've helped me a lot.
	Thank you.
	And I've actually been working on this thing myself.
	I self-hate a lot.
	Like, if I do something, say, driving, learning how to drive a standard, which I'm doing ongoing, I'll think, I'm so stupid, stupid, stupid!
	I should know this!
	Like, I'm flawed.
	And I know that that's directly based off of your childhood again, but My mother would always put me down when I was a kid.
	I think I was five or six.
	And I'm like, I want to go into gymnastics.
	And my mom's like, no, you can't be in gymnastics.
	You're too tall.
	You'll get hurt.
	And I'm like, well, I want to do this.
	She's like, no, you can't do that.
	And she's always been that way.
	And my father, too, in a different way.
	Like, oh, we don't have money for that, or, oh, well, you don't finish anything that you start anyway.
	And, um, like, my dad was more supportive in the sense of, I wanted to learn how to play the guitar, so he bought me a guitar, but I never followed through with it because, again, I never, um, Applied myself to it.
	I didn't want to practice.
	I just wanted to magically be good at it because I never got the chance to actually practice anything that I didn't want to do early.
	Well, but hang on a second, right?
	I mean, if your parents teach you Mandarin, you can't blame yourself for learning Mandarin, right?
	Yeah.
	Did your parents hope to be magically good parents without learning anything and without practicing?
	I guess.
	They never really did much.
	My mom went to school for psychology and she's a factory worker.
	Right.
	So if you have parents who think that they're going to be magically good parents without learning or studying or anything like that, right?
	then you're going to imbibe this idea that excellence should be effortless.
	But if you want to break But it's not.
	No, of course it's not.
	Of course it's not.
	Of course it's not.
	I mean, when you were a kid, did your parents tell you to study for tests?
	No.
	Oh, they never did?
	They did my homework.
	No, they did my homework for me.
	Why?
	And then my mom's...
	I don't know.
	My mother wrote all my reports when I was...
	I don't know fifth sixth grade and then all of a sudden seventh grade when she got remarried actually I was in seventh grade and all of a sudden she stopped doing my homework for me.
	I had no idea how to write a report.
	Wow.
	Why do you think she wrote all your reports?
	I don't know.
	Did she brag about your actual statements?
	No.
	She never bragged about me.
	She bragged about my cousin.
	I never really got...
	I mean, when I was in elementary school, I got really good grades.
	But then once I hit middle school, they're like, you're unmotivated.
	Why don't you get good grades?
	You need to stop getting Fs.
	I barely squeaked by graduating high school.
	I mean, how unbelievably destructive.
	To do your work for you.
	And then stop!
	Well, I mean, if she'd kept going, it would have been even worse.
	But how insane?
	Did you want her to?
	I mean, when I was in middle school, yeah, I wanted her to do my homework for me because I had no idea what I was doing.
	Right.
	I mean, I had no idea how to even get any information out of an encyclopedia.
	Right, sorry.
	I just don't know what that means.
	The Encyclopedia is the hard copy of the internet that's very small, that used to be in people's homes.
	Anyway.
	She's very against the internet.
	I've tried to get her to email and get a computer in general, but she's very old school.
	So, I guess we don't really need to know why, but I've never quite heard of that before, the parent doing all the homework, including writing the reports.
	And did your teachers have no idea that an adult, rather than a 10-year-old, was writing papers?
	Apparently not.
	I mean, she would write them down and I would copy what she wrote, in my own words, or I would type it up.
	Any competent teacher would know that.
	Because they would compare your written work to your verbal skills, and they would notice a discrepancy.
	Or they would notice that your work was somehow different from all the other kids' work, right?
	So, anyway, it's just another example of the incompetence of teachers, but that's not...
	Or just, you know, who cares, right?
	They don't care.
	They may notice, but they don't care, right?
	Pass them, keep them going, get the help home, and get you a couple of months off in the summer.
	So...
	So you had examples of parents who wanted excellence without effort.
	But I'll tell you the best secret that I've ever found for identifying self-harm and alleviating self-harm is whenever your stupid shows up.
	Imagine saying that to a five-year-old.
	Imagine saying what you're saying to yourself to a five-year-old.
	I mean, it can be in a five-year-old.
	It can be a little boy or a little girl or a five-year-old that you know.
	And imagine, if you found those words coming out of your mouth to a five-year-old, how would you feel about yourself?
	Like a horrible, disgusting human being.
	Yeah, it would be...
	Let's say counterproductive, right?
	And it would not engender peace or love or virtue on the part of the child, right?
	No.
	So, I mean, why would some random five-year-old be worthy of greater and kinder language from you than your very own tender self?
	That's a good point.
	Thank you.
	So just imagine, any time those words come out, say, would I say that to a five-year-old?
	Who's more important, some random five-year-old in a mall or on the street or my own self that I have to live with and inhabit for the next X decades, right?
	Be kind to yourself.
	Be gentle to yourself.
	Be gentle with yourself.
	Be as nice to yourself as you would be to any random child you met, right?
	I mean, you're a victim, you deserve it.
	Thank you.
	You are very welcome.
	How are you feeling?
	Sister?
	Well, I cried a lot.
	It's very painful.
	It is.
	I mean, it's painful, but it heals at the same time.
	And I've gone through a lot of it in the past two months.
	And I feel better, though.
	Like, the weight's been kind of lifted off my shoulders.
	I know I have to, you know, carry on with it myself, too.
	But it's...
	It's like the elephant in the room has been noticed.
	Yeah, I hope so.
	By me.
	So, thank you.
	Enjoy the monthly donations.
	Thank you very much and best of luck to you.
	If you get a chance, drop me a line and let me know how it goes.
	Oh yeah, I'll let you know how this legal situation goes and stuff like that because I will probably need a, I don't know, eureka moment or a it's okay to feel this way moment.
	Okay, well thanks so much Casey for calling in.
	I really appreciate that and I believe next we have Austin.
	Yep, Austin is up next.
	Go ahead.
	Hey Siobhan, thank you for having me on the show.
	I really like your show, so I appreciate it.
	I have two questions for you.
	Okay, so the first one is what you think about getting involved in a relationship or marriage or dating with somebody from a different culture.
	Can you give me a more specific example?
	Sure.
	Like, I mean, so I'm white, Anglo-Saxon, and dating somebody that's Hispanic or from Burma or something.
	Yeah.
	You don't know?
	She's either got a good tan, she's an excellent salsa dana, could be Hispanic, and likes spicy food.
	No, I was giving just two examples.
	Yeah, but no, so there's something I'm interested in that's Hispanic, yeah.
	Wait, interested in or dating?
	Yeah, just, no, not dating yet.
	Been on a few dates with, but not like dating, no.
	Right, right.
	And how Hispanic is she?
	In other words, I need the exact dimensions of her re-rent.
	No, I'm kidding.
	I mean, no, because...
	I mean, I come from England.
	I wouldn't say I'm terribly British.
	And there are people who come from the South who sound like Jeff Foxworthy, and then there are people who come from the South who don't.
	So some people will more identify with a culture than others, if that makes sense.
	Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So, I mean...
	I've been around Hispanics in different cultures my whole life, and people have always asked me if I would marry somebody, and I always assume no, just because language barriers, partially, and cultural barriers, I think would make it difficult to live.
	I mean, she's Mexican, but she's lived in the States for multiple years.
	Yeah, you haven't answered my question at all.
	What's house?
	How Hispanic?
	Yeah.
	I mean, does she strongly self-identify with the Hispanic culture?
	Yes.
	Okay, so, and what values does she associate or identify with that are important to her, that come from the Hispanic culture?
	Just her family, like, I think it's very...
	Strong, like, familial culture, I guess.
	And is she religious?
	No, her family is, but she...
	No.
	She's not religious, so she's an atheist?
	No, I guess she's just...
	I don't think she really thinks about religion, doesn't go to church, doesn't...
	I don't think she really would call herself an atheist, but...
	Does her family know that she's religious?
	Yes.
	And they're okay with that?
	I think it probably is a little bit bothersome to them, but they're okay with it.
	Right.
	I think, I mean, as far as I know.
	Okay.
	And would she be comfortable raising children in a non-religious environment?
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	You've only gone on a date or two and you've talked about this.
	That's very wise, in my opinion.
	Well, yeah.
	And I've learned about her.
	She has a really interesting history and stuff.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Well, look, I mean, if you share values, then, you know, that's the key.
	Mm-hmm.
	So, you know, if she...
	Likes salsa or whatever.
	I mean, completely stereotyping the Hispanic culture here or whatever, right?
	But if she likes Hispanic food and likes salsa, fantastic.
	You know, I'd be great.
	You know, it's cool stuff.
	If she thinks that the Hispanic culture is the very best in the world for no particular rational reason, then you're dealing with somebody who's been pretty heavily...
	She's propagandized and, you know, doesn't have her body, and that's probably not going to work with somebody who's into philosophy and critical thinking, right?
	Right, yeah, I agree.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Well, great.
	I just...
	Yeah, I'm just curious about your thoughts on that.
	So, the second question is kind of the bigger one.
	So, it's actually the same person.
	And I just want to know if you have any thoughts, just so I could maybe give advice to her or whatever.
	She is adopting a child.
	So, I mean, she's very successful, young...
	Are you there?
	Yep.
	So, I'm just curious about your thoughts on this.
	So, she's been very successful in her life.
	I mean, worked very hard.
	And feels like she wants to...
	Okay, what's your age gap then?
	Age gap between me and her?
	Uh-huh.
	Oh, like three years?
	And so how old is she?
	30.
	So she's 30 and you're 27, I assume, right?
	Yes.
	Excellent.
	All right.
	And no, you had to be younger.
	I mean, anyway, but why is she adopting a child?
	So, yeah, so she's just thinking that, I mean, she's been successful and, I mean, she's been in kind of the process for like a year or so, I guess.
	And she wants to be able to, I don't know, I guess...
	She wasn't married and didn't know if she ever would, maybe, or something, and she wanted to be able to have a child.
	I don't really know if I understand fully.
	I think it's partially to be able to help.
	The child that...
	It's like all this statist stuff you have to go through to adopt.
	But it's like she's getting a child from, I think, the foster care.
	So she's gonna be like a foster mom, and if she decides that it's a good situation, then she can adopt her.
	So I think it's kind of to help.
	I mean, this is a person that, she's 14 years old, the girl, has obviously had like a very troubled history with likely, you know, abuse, possibly sexual abuse from father and mother that obviously abandoned her, and I think it's partially because she feels like, you know, she should be able to help some lesser, you know.
	But I just, I mean, I was thinking just like, at 14, I don't know if you could really help somebody.
	I mean, I think it's really noble that she wants to be able to do that to help.
	You know, there's lots of kids that are in horrible situations and to be able to give them a stable environment with somebody that loves them and all of this.
	But I'm not sure if that's, I mean, if I mean, as much as you'd like to help some of these people, I'm not sure how possible it is or what you think about that.
	Oh, I don't know.
	I mean, whether or not you can help kids.
	I mean, I think it would be better for these kids to be in a happy home than in a foster house or a foster care system.
	I'm certainly no expert on that.
	But are you ready to become...
	A dad to a traumatized 14-year-old girl?
	I'm not sure if I am, though.
	I don't know.
	Okay.
	Are you ready to become...
	I mean, this is an important decision, man, right?
	This is not a, I'm not sure, right?
	Are you ready to become a father to a traumatized 14-year-old girl?
	I don't think so, no.
	This is a yes or no question because it is so important, right?
	Like if you said to me, if I was choking and you said, Steph, I'm going to perform a tracheotomy on you, I would say, do you know how to perform a tracheotomy?
	I want a clear yes or no answer to that question.
	Do you understand?
	Right, yeah.
	Well, you know, I think maybe kind of, sort of, right?
	No tracheotomy for you, right?
	Yeah.
	Are you ready to become...
	A father to a traumatized 14-year-old girl?
	No.
	Okay.
	Well, there's your answer.
	Yes.
	Yeah, I agree.
	Do you think I should give her any advice on this?
	I mean...
	She's...
	I mean, it hasn't happened yet, right?
	She's...
	Still, like, in the process or whatever?
	Yeah, I mean, you can certainly give her the statistics on single motherhood and say that you're taking a traumatized child and putting the traumatized child into an environment which is statistically damaging.
	Right?
	So if she wants to adopt 14-year-old traumatized girls, I think that can be a very fine thing to do.
	But she needs to get married to a man who's willing and ready to do that.
	And it would be great if she took some...
	I'm sure she's taking parenting classes and I'm sure she's taking all kinds of classes to prepare herself for about the most challenging parental situation you can imagine.
	So which classes is she taking in preparation for this?
	I think with the agency that she's doing it through, she has to take some...
	I don't really know what the class is, but yeah, some parenting situation about all the things that you can and cannot do.
	She has tons of roles because it's through the state.
	I get all of that.
	I assume that she's taking on...
	If I'm going to take on an extremely challenging parental role, I mean, I read a huge amount, and as you all know from the show, theorized a huge amount about parenting before I became a parent, and I actually have a delightful and happy and intelligent and content and loving daughter with no trauma, right?
	And it's still a challenge at times.
	So she's taking on an extremely challenging parental situation.
	In an environment where she's not going to have the support of a husband, either the financial or emotional support of a husband.
	So if she's going to do it, she's got to go way above and beyond the bare minimum.
	If she's taking controls of a plane and she's elbowing other people out the way, she better damn well know how to fly it.
	Right.
	That's some good advice.
	I'll talk to her about that.
	Is she pretty?
	Yeah, she's pretty.
	Just remember to think with both ends of your body.
	That's all I'm going to suggest.
	I'm much more attracted to herself than to her body.
	Well, alright, let's pretend you're not a guy for a moment and you are in fact the second coming who doesn't want to have a second coming.
	Then this is a woman who is making a decision to adopt a traumatized child with no huge amount of preparation into an environment which is negative for the child in that it's a single mom environment.
	And She's dating at the same time.
	Has she asked you how you would feel about getting involved with a woman who's about to adopt a child who's 14 with a history of molestation?
	So is it going to be easy for you as the stepfather or step-parent to a girl who has probably been molested by strange men?
	How's she going to feel about you sleeping under the same roof as her?
	Has this girlfriend asked you and talked with you about the unbelievably mind-bending challenges that that would pose for you?
	Not, no, not too much.
	Yeah, but I mean...
	Oh, my God, man!
	I need to stop talking to your dick, alright?
	Put your dick away.
	I need to talk to you.
	Because your dick is like hedging things, right?
	It's like, yeah, okay, so she doesn't explain out of empathy and her decision-making, but that ass, baby.
	No, no, no.
	No, no, I agree with you.
	Just, I mean...
	We're not dating yet.
	I'm sorry?
	We're not dating yet.
	I mean, we're more friends dating.
	I mean, we've been on a few dates and kind of the point of deciding, right?
	Not dating yet.
	We've been on a few dates.
	Penis brain.
	Penis wants to make more penises.
	You get that, right?
	Right?
	It's a photocopier.
	Penis wants to make more penis.
	Toe wants to make more toe.
	We are blind-ass photocopiers looking for a place to leave our tadpoles, right?
	Right, right.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	You got it?
	So your dick wants her.
	And your dick will ignore a whole bunch of possibly crazy shit to get in, right?
	Someone's knocking at the door, somebody's ringing the bell, right?
	Right.
	So, shake your head.
	Yeah, I understand, yeah.
	Not that one.
	Actually, do shake your head.
	Masturbate nine times before you go on a date, right?
	Find if you still like her.
	Alright?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Our warning sign here that your dick is trying to cover you up.
	Do you still have your foreskin?
	Oh, you're really asking?
	No.
	But, yeah, I see your point, yeah.
	I agree with you.
	Okay, who's talking now?
	Is your dick talking saying, I agree with you?
	Now shut the fuck up so I can go bone me some Latino?
	No, no, no, no.
	No, I wouldn't get involved with...
	I mean, I'm not going to...
	Let me ask you again.
	Let me ask you again.
	Has she asked you how you feel about getting involved with a woman who is about to adopt a 14-year-old girl with a history of sexual molestation by strange men?
	She has not asked you that.
	Okay.
	That's all you need to know.
	That's all you need to know.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	There's nothing else to know.
	That shows a chilling lack of empathy for you.
	I mean, I can tell you what I think the reality of the interaction is.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Would you like me to?
	No, let's pass on that.
	You can hang up, never listen to this part, and I'll talk to everyone else if you don't want to hear it.
	Okay, let me know when you hear it.
	Okay.
	Penis?
	Yeah.
	We need to talk.
	Let me tell you what's going on.
	Woman is sexually suggestive on dates, probably in some ways or other promising the world sexually.
	The reason that this is occurring is because the brain that you're attached to Somewhat loosely, though you're not representing its best interests.
	Oh, penis, the brain that you're attached to can make money.
	A woman about to adopt a child needs money and resources, and so she's working you like a lever.
	She's working you like an African villager who works a water pump to get the resources.
	Water pump and bed squeakies.
	She will then get your resources, And she will use those resources for the sake of her adopted child.
	At which point, not so much.
	And more, hey, give me some money!
	Hey, what happened to all that sex?
	We have a child in the house.
	She's been sexually traumatized.
	Money, money, money!
	Right?
	She is about to adopt a child who is not, first and foremost, concerned with the quality of man that she's going to have around that child, is using sex to get your resources.
	She will take your balls, work them a little bit to get at your wallet.
	It's not true for all women.
	But in this situation, it's pretty clear.
	She's not empathizing with you as a human being and trying to figure out what's best for the kid.
	resource black hole.
	Don't fall for it.
	Dick?
	Oh, Dick, you could do so much better than that.
	I am looking at your penis's long-term interests.
	It's true.
	You know, penis makes rational calculation noises, right?
	And penis, bird in the hand, worth two in the bush.
	Penis loves bush metaphors.
	So, penis of listener, I am looking out for your long-term happiness.
	Right?
	Because I want you to- Yeah, I understand that.
	Forever.
	Until they pound a steak through your owner's heart and throw them into the dungeon at the end of life.
	I want you to have great sex into your 90s and all, right?
	But if you take this now, you will get a little bit of sex now and then you will be not screwed because you'll be screwed.
	Right?
	No one's going to put you into the dark after this much at all.
	Because what's going to happen is you're not going to end up with much sex in this relationship.
	But what's going to happen, you see, is that you're going to end up financially obligated to this woman and her kid or kids.
	And then no other reasonable, responsible, intelligent woman is going to want to have anything to do with you.
	So don't do it.
	You think...
	That you're aiming at sacks.
	You are not.
	You are aiming at riding the chariot of blue balls right into the sunset of your life.
	Trundle, trundle, trundle, trundle.
	Do you hear them?
	Rattling away.
	They're going to be the size of that goddamn thing that chases Indiana Jones at the beginning of the first movie.
	Run!
	They'll be like bigger than the foreheads of the-- Don't do it, penis.
	Penis, hold out.
	Hold out for paradise.
	Hold out.
	Hold out.
	Come on.
	Do some porn.
	Wait for the right thing.
	Wait for it!
	Wait!
	Don't!
	Don't walk down the hill and have sex with one...
	Don't run down the hill and have sex with the first cow you meet.
	Walk down the hill and have sex with all the cows forever.
	Right?
	Speed is desire.
	Have confidence that you are a pussy magnet that can afford to wait for long-term poon investment.
	Yeah, I know this.
	I mean, yeah.
	I think I might have described poorly the situation, but I mean, yeah, I agree with you.
	I mean, I'm not...
	I agree with you.
	Don't give me that I might have described the situation poorly.
	Don't do it!
	Or if you're going to do it, at least you're going to get some sex now and none down the road.
	Oh, yeah, I'm not going to do it.
	I mean, I'm not going to pursue a relationship with her, but...
	Yeah.
	Butt?
	She's got a great butt?
	I'm not going to pursue a relationship with her.
	That's your neofrontal cortex, the reasoning center.
	And your penis is going, butt!
	Hispanic butt!
	Come on!
	No, no, no, no.
	No, I mean, I don't think she's...
	I mean, how the situation is, I don't think...
	She is financially, like, basically financially independent.
	I mean, she's...
	So I don't think it's like a financial thing and...
	But I understand what you're saying.
	I wouldn't get involved as long as...
	It may not be money.
	It may be time.
	It may just be time.
	And look, how do you think it's going to be for you being romantic with her at the beginning of a relationship?
	Let's say she gets this...
	Poor girl Tamara, right?
	This 14-year-old girl.
	Yeah.
	How available is she going to be for you and your one-eyed trouser snake when this is occurring in her life?
	Yeah, I agree.
	I mean, she said that basically once it happens, well, she can't have men stay over at her house.
	She can't And she's going to have to take care of this poor girl, which is fine, maybe nice and noble and blah, blah, blah.
	But come on.
	I mean, how are you going to get a relationship started with this woman if she gets this girl tomorrow?
	Right.
	Yeah, I agree.
	It would be essentially basically impossible.
	And if you think that women who are financially independent don't like men's money, you just need to ask Paul McCartney.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah, that's true.
	My uncle too is also...
	Even though she was already well.
	Yeah.
	I did a video on the dangers of dating single mothers, which you can look at if you like.
	Yeah, I watched it.
	Yeah, you are woefully underselling yourself if you're willing to accept this.
	Like, maybe if the first thing she said was, you know, I really like you, this is really complicated, but there's this challenge, I've got this kid coming in who's had a history of sexual abuse, and I'm concerned about whether that's going to affect our relationship negatively, and here are all the problems, and what do you think there's going to be all these challenges?
	If she'd done that, I'd be like, whoa, that's pretty cool.
	But, if you haven't...
	If she hasn't said any of that, then she's not thinking about you.
	Now, if she's interested in you, but she's not thinking about you, then she's interested in your stuff.
	101, right?
	Yeah.
	And it's not just female to male, right?
	I mean, a man who doesn't want to talk and he just finds her sexy and wants to screw her and leave, he's not interested in her, he's just interested in her stuff.
	Right?
	TNA. Right.
	And I would not advise a woman to date a man like that either.
	But, you know, you're not a woman calling in at the moment.
	Yeah.
	You can debate?
	Yeah.
	I mean, we've talked...
	Sorry.
	We've talked a little bit about the situation, but, I mean, it's kind of new.
	She just barely found out about it a few days ago.
	I mean...
	What's kind of new?
	I thought she said she was going to do this for you.
	So she started the application like a year ago, but she never heard back, and she just thought basically that it wasn't going to happen.
	She'd kind of get up on it.
	Sorry, I appreciate that clarification.
	You said you're not going to date her, right?
	No.
	And are you going to sleep with her?
	Especially after our conversation.
	What?
	Are you going to sleep with her?
	I missed that.
	What did you say?
	Are you going to sleep with her?
	No.
	I definitely wouldn't do that.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Like, no matter what.
	I mean, unless I... Good penis.
	Say what?
	Give it a pat.
	Good penis.
	Give it a pat.
	All right.
	Well, thanks so much for your call.
	I appreciate that.
	And thank you for sharing about a challenging situation.
	And thank you for letting me put my vocal cords in your pants.
	Appreciate it.
	I appreciate it also.
	Thanks for the conversation.
	Alright, Laszlo, you're up next.
	Go ahead.
	Hi guys.
	Do you hear me?
	Do.
	Go ahead.
	Alright.
	It's awesome.
	I was waiting for the score, the opportunity to talk to you for a very long time, and I actually I sent an email to Michael about one and a half months ago, I guess, and it was a very trouble for a period of time for me, and I had a lot of issues.
	But for this call, unfortunately, and my life, luckily, I was able to solve a lot of my problems.
	And basically, most of it was...
	With your help.
	I mean, the help of your philosophy, the videos, and I'm very thankful for that.
	I think if I have to, I can come up with a question.
	But I was imagining this a little bit more like a chat.
	And what do you think about that to start to talk?
	Without an exact question.
	If it's not okay, I can come up with a strong question if it's needed.
	Yeah, I mean, this is a Q&A show for the most part, so if you have a question, I think that would be...
	All right.
	I know then when the conversation is over, like if I've at least tried to answer the question as best I can.
	So go ahead with the question.
	All right.
	All right.
	Cool.
	So, before this, I was about to talk to you about my parents' issues of shaming and trauma like that, but...
	I just passed that.
	So now I would like to ask a couple of questions about your philosophy on history.
	As I see, we have a lot of nationalist history, and I think it's really bad.
	I mean, it's only good for purposes of the mainstream propaganda, in Europe especially and I was three or four months ago I was talking with my brother and I come up with an idea of a thing called human condition and this is a
	kind of an approach to historical events and the state of human existence For instance, I would describe it as shifting of focus from what actually happened to things that occurred in what nature and in
	what surroundings.
	So, for instance, In Hungary, I'm calling from Budapest, Hungary, we have a lot of nationalized history.
	And we are talking about a great history of our state, which lies back into the first century, 1896.
	And it was 1,000 years of feudalistic misery and unspeakable horrors.
	And we are somehow proud of it because it existed.
	And I would like to ask you that is there anything existing which is similar to what I just tried to describe and how could we gather resources and start a conversation about history as As something without nations and nationalism and love for our own ancestors and hate for the
	guys in the other country's ancestors, you know?
	So, if you need more certification, I can try, but now I'll ask that.
	I think I understand it.
	I think I get it.
	So, what's missing from history is philosophy.
	You know, what's missing from Psychology is philosophy.
	What's missing from politics is philosophy.
	What's missing from science is philosophy.
	I mean, science plus philosophy is no government science, because philosophy tells you that the initiation of force is immoral, which means government-funded science is immoral.
	Psychology plus philosophy tells you that I think that the majority of psychological problems are the results of Post-traumatic stress disorder is a result of violations of the non-aggression principle.
	So, what does history plus philosophy look like?
	Well, history...
	History is a catalogue of competing crimes.
	And little more.
	So, the idea that crimes change with geography is mad, right?
	So, the king who initiates force on the other side of the hill is bad.
	The king who initiates force on this side of the hill is good.
	Virtue, like science, is not geographical in nature.
	Gravity doesn't change when you cross a state line or a country line.
	So, the history is the struggle of human beings to universalize anything.
	The universalization of physics gave a significant blow to the cosmology of Christendom with Earth at the center and God floating around and all that kind of stuff.
	Heaven was supposed to be above the clouds.
	When we got there, we found a vacuum, right?
	And the struggle to universalize It undermines the lies of power.
	And so the struggle to universalize morality is the core struggle in history.
	And so a lot of times, economics plus philosophy is no longer consequentialist.
	The moment you hear somebody founding an argument on consequentialism, it means they don't have any clue about moral philosophy, which is really, I say, the main purpose of philosophy.
	I mean, the purpose of physics is engineering, getting shit done in the world that means something.
	It's not equations, right?
	The purpose of this show is not to arrange or rearrange the contents of magnetic platters and people's hard drives.
	It's to get them to change their lives, to do something.
	with the knowledge they have.
	The purpose of a diet book is to have you change your diet, not just read it.
	And the purpose of philosophy and history is to universalize moral statements and compare history to that.
	And history is people lying about morals and inventing virtue where there is only evil.
	And claiming universality of ethics for their subjects while denying universality of ethics for themselves.
	We are attempting to wrestle philosophy, particularly moral philosophy, from the hands of evildoers who invented it as part of the program of evil.
	if you can get people to obey moral laws that you yourself are exempted from that makes your crimes and predations much more profitable.
	So that to me is the fundamental purpose of history is we have these ideal moral standards which we know that all rulers accept because they enforce it on their subjects.
	And the invention of exceptions for moral rules is the foundation of tyrannical hierarchies of a democratic or fascistic or national socialistic or socialistic or communist or tribal manner.
	Thank you.
	So bringing the lens of universal ethics to history reveals it to be A catalogue of competing and costumed criminality, all portraying itself as wearing the glowing wings of infinite virtue.
	And that kills nationalism, right?
	Any rational thought about sports kills sports nationalism, right?
	Or the fact that you care about your sport based upon its proximity, right?
	Or the sports team.
	That's my basic take on it, if that helps.
	Yes, yes, absolutely.
	Can I push it a little further more?
	Because I would present it as a weapon, a possible weapon against evil in the world,
	because I think your show But what is really good that you are doing is you show people the world how it exists currently.
	I mean you point out clearly evil and unimagined and realistic evil in the world and I think that we as humans, we want to know about what happens now, and we also want to know about what happened, what really happened, and what is about to happen.
	And I think that history would be a pretty good...
	Not a weapon, because we don't need to use weapons.
	How can I say that?
	It's just a helpful instrument to show people evil that happened before and sometimes they connect sometimes people connect better to the past for instance I would like why am I saying this I say this because in the center of our capital we have a we have a
	large Pack of monuments and it's called like the Hero's Square and there are statues of kings who blinded their own three-year-old brothers with hot iron swords for the ability to rule their people.
	So I think if I could say to people that you are worshipping evil like this, it would be It would be mind-blowing, you know, as it was for me because we grow up in state-based school here with a lot of nationalized history and And this is the thing that I That It gives me this insight that we should step
	on this path.
	And I know that you have studied history a lot, right?
	You have a master's degree in it, if I'm not mistaken.
	The last question with this topic is can you recommend me anything to read or videos to get known to join a conversation about this because I really want to rethink my knowledge about history And
	I think it would be a really good instrument to help people realize evil.
	Because I think this is what you do.
	I mean, this is what your work done for me.
	It helped me realize it and helped me see evil as what it is.
	And as long as...
	I mean, sorry, let me just interrupt for a second.
	I'm sorry.
	All right.
	No, go ahead.
	No, go ahead.
	So I wanted to say, as long as the state has the power to...
	It's not only normalizing crime, you know, and not only normalizing evil, that, oh, yeah, it's good to take your money, because I want to help these poor people.
	But as long as they can make heroism and make...
	Virtue.
	Not just normalize sin.
	They make it look virtuous.
	And they always say that if you want to do some really good things for your people, you have to cross a river of blood.
	You can't get an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
	Yes, that's right.
	Except we're always the eggs and we never see the omelet, right?
	Yeah.
	That's right, that's right.
	So you have to cross a river of blood if you want to, if you want to help your nation and bullshit like that, and it's so powerful.
	It's really powerful.
	It's immensely, it's really powerful on children and on young men.
	You know, I experienced that women, don't give a, I mean, I don't want to say dirty words, but They don't give a damn about history, in my personal experience.
	But men, boy, men are the most excited when it's about people dying like flies.
	And they always imagine that they are the guy on the white horse in the middle of the picture.
	You had a video about that.
	Napoleon with a face on the picture and the millions behind him with this faceless crowd.
	Everyone thinks that they're going to be Napoleon in that picture, but what they are is the eyeball stuck to his horse's hoof.
	That's who they end up being.
	They're just the stuff stuck between the treads of his boots.
	So, I mean, I'll try and give you a brief answer, and then we'll get to the last caller, but the question is, how do you spread virtue?
	Well, so, I don't know that examining all these past individual crimes really matters.
	If you can get universality, that stuff falls into place of its own accord.
	Like, nobody says, I wonder if gravity was different in the Ottoman Empire, right?
	Anybody who proposed that would be considered to be a lunatic, right?
	In Rome...
	Fire was cold, right?
	Because scientists have won the argument for universality of physical laws.
	And so we don't imagine that they were different in the past.
	Now we will say, well, people were ignorant of those physical laws, but those physical laws were not fundamentally different.
	Not even unfundamentally different.
	They were exactly the same.
	And it's the same thing with ethics.
	If we keep focusing on the universality, Then people will just accept that the universality applied in the past as it does in the present, whether people were knowledgeable of it or not, no matter what the results were or not.
	We understand that the medieval warfare had to take into account the same physics, the same physical laws and properties that we have today.
	So because physicists, let's say, have won the argument for universality, nobody imagines things were different in the past.
	They used to.
	They used to believe that physics was different in the past.
	They were called miracles.
	They used to believe that gods and demons and whoever, ghosts, could come down and change the laws of physics at will.
	So in the past, physics was considered to be violatable or violable, right?
	Yes.
	Now, this is how we feel about morality, or the universality of ethics.
	But we're simply making the case for the universality of ethics.
	Now, how do we make the case for the universality of ethics?
	Well, we cannot appeal, to continue the theme from the first caller, we cannot appeal to people's integrity or desire for consistency with virtue, because people are rational calculation machines.
	Which means amoral calculation, machines of personal advantage.
	So how do we spread the value of universality?
	Well, we live it.
	If you want to spread...
	You know, it's funny.
	Better science was spread through warfare in many ways.
	Because the people who had better science invented better bows.
	They invented better battery grams, better catapults, gunpowder.
	So the market and better physics were sort of spread in many ways through violence.
	So science improved technology, engineering improved weaponry, and the free market produced the money for governments to buy these things and go and kill other people.
	So to some degree, markets and science spread through violence because they gave governments the tools to expand.
	Which is why you can see the footprint of the British Empire in countries around the world.
	They sort of permanently changed their cultures in many ways.
	I don't think it's the best way to do it at all, but it's the way that it did happen.
	So people will change based on empiricism.
	They won't change based on philosophy, which is why I am continually exhorting myself and others to live your values.
	So if you live your values, and people say, well, Steph, that guy who's living his values seems to be pretty happy.
	He's living his values.
	You know, he's a loving relationship with his wife.
	He's living his values.
	He's living the life of his dreams, which I am.
	Could not get better.
	I could not improve my life if you gave me a slide rule, 10,000 years, and a genie bottle full of wishes.
	I could not improve my life.
	And, you know, he's living his values as a parent, so he's, you know, he's got a pretty good relationship with a pretty remarkable daughter.
	So I want some of that.
	I don't give a shit fundamentally about his values, but I want those goodies.
	And so you live your values and you don't take shit from anyone.
	You live your values and nasty evil little fucktards will try to make you feel bad for living your values.
	Ooh, you're arrogant.
	Ooh, you're selfish.
	Ooh, you're self-centered.
	Ooh, you just don't listen.
	Ooh, you're insensitive.
	You don't take any of that shit from anyone.
	You live gloriously happy, in love with your values, in love with life, and you accept no shit from no one.
	That's irresistible for anybody who genuinely wants to be happy.
	You know, I said on the Peter Schiff show this last week, I grew up poor.
	And then I made some money.
	And how many of my friends who remained poor asked me how I did it?
	I had a friend once visit who was having, this is after I negotiated million dollar contracts and been involved in the sale of a company, been involved in going public and all this kind of stuff, right?
	And he was having trouble negotiating a contract with his publishing company.
	I've been doing this shit for 10 years.
	Did he ask me a single question?
	No, he told me all about these problems.
	I made a suggestion or two.
	He kind of rolled his eyes.
	It's like, dude, I've been doing this for 10 years.
	Ask me a question.
	I can be of value.
	Ah, I got it.
	They don't want to know.
	Now, some people do want to know.
	Oh, you know, hear about...
	How you achieved success?
	How you achieved happiness?
	How did you overcome this abusive history?
	How did you get all these cool things done?
	How did you avoid reenacting the past?
	How did you go from living in a world of evil and being raised by evil doers to living a life of virtue, being surrounded by good doers, right?
	How many people ask?
	They don't.
	A few people do, and this is where the show comes from.
	This is where the donations come from.
	This is how it actually works.
	But people, they may change if they see an example.
	You know, like if you lose 100 pounds, there are a couple of fat people who will say, man, you know, how did you do that?
	But most fat people will just resent you.
	Or pretend that it doesn't exist or ignore everything that you've done.
	So you just live this virtuous life and publicly and openly.
	I have the opportunity to do that publicly and openly.
	So that's how you change people.
	You have to change them empirically and then you give them the principles because they want the goodies, right?
	You give them the principles because they want the goodies.
	They don't give a shit about the principles.
	In fact, if you identify the principles without showing them the goodies, they'll just resent you because you'll be making their lives worse, not better.
	Come be miserable with me in the ghastly underworld of pure libertarian integrity, where we rise every day and scream at the television, rail against the internet, and spit on our supposed friends.
	Come join me, brothers, in the hellscape of jagged incompatibility with an aggressive society.
	Yay!
	No, that's not how you show.
	They don't put ugly people in the cosmetics ads and this is the world we live in.
	People make decisions based upon appearances.
	Live your values and a few people will say, okay, I will grudgingly accept that you might have some principles to offer because you have some stuff that I want.
	Happiness, love, wealth, whatever it is you want to, whatever your virtue has achieved for you.
	You know, if people have this religious belief That soap bubbles make great bridges and then you build a bridge out of stone and it stays up?
	Most of them will ignore that and hate you for it if it's pointed out.
	But a few people will say, you know what?
	His bridge really stays up.
	Maybe I should ask a little bit about that brickwork because I kind of want to have a bridge that stays up.
	So you live that life and you await the curious to ask you, How you did it.
	And then you share with them the principles.
	That is the only way that I can figure out how it can possibly spread.
	Does that help at all?
	Yeah, that was actually the closest to a perfect answer as an answer could get.
	Yes, actually just to close my part and to let you talk to other people, just a few words that first of all I wanted to...
	No, that's not right.
	So I had a lot of problems which your show helped me to solve and In that period of time I realized that I would love to do this work like you do.
	I was always talking to people because I ran away from home as 14 and I had to surround myself with people to learn anything and I really loved to talk with people who had troubles and I am, I think, in my mother language, I'm a better communicator than I am now in English.
	And I was just really amazed when I found you to someone to be just like this, so confident, so calm, so patient.
	That was just amazing.
	And now I am I am with a girl who I love.
	She's a really great partner.
	The philosophy of yours and my bad experiences before helped me to get involved with a really good relationship.
	And I think that now I don't accept what you say, I understand it.
	So I think there is a difference and now I understand.
	What means, what living your principles mean.
	And I would love to thank your work.
	Thanks for the opportunity to chat with you, which was really nice.
	And as soon as I get another question, I'm sure that I will call again, because this is the best conversation.
	Your philosophy show is the best conversation what I ever experienced.
	And thank you for the work.
	Thank you.
	Thank you for your very kind words.
	That's lovely to hear.
	And I obviously agree with you.
	I think it is the best and most important conversation, not just for today, but for all time.
	So I'm not going to pretend otherwise.
	I appreciate you.
	I know.
	I appreciate you saying that.
	I think that's great.
	And you are certainly welcome to call back any time.
	I'm afraid I'm running a little bit out of steam.
	I won't be able to get to the last caller.
	I apologize for that.
	If you can do Wednesday, we'll put you up first.
	I'm very sorry that you've had to hang on, but my daughter was up twice last night, and I'm a tad low on steam, and I'm trying to not prop myself up with coffee as much anymore.
	I will just mention one thing.
	There was a question in the chat window about why is it wrong to...
	Asleep with someone you have no intention of dating.
	Well, it's not immoral.
	It's not immoral, but there is a requirement for honesty on the part of someone who follows virtue, right?
	There are implicit contracts all over the place in the world.
	You don't get to obviously go to a restaurant, eat a meal, and then dine and dash and not pay because you say, well, I didn't sign a contract.
	That says, I'm going to pay for the food when I'm done, right?
	We don't get to go to a store, steal a candy bar, and then say, well, it's not theft because I didn't sign a contract that says, I'm not going to steal your candy bars, right?
	So, there are tons and tons of implied contracts.
	You don't sign anything which says, you're going to behave this way on an airplane.
	You get the point.
	For women...
	For most women, not all women, but for most women, there is an implied contract that sex is part of a longer relationship.
	It's just an implied contract.
	In other words, if you want to have sex with a woman that you intend never to see again, you are breaking the implied contract and that's fine.
	But you need to verbally state that you are going to break the implied contract.
	So, if I go to a store and say, I'm going to come into your store, I'm going to take that candy bar, and I'm going to leave it without paying?
	Well, that's fine.
	If the guy says, go ahead, then I have broken the implied contract.
	And when I have, when I then take that action, I'm not breaking any contract.
	I've openly stated that I am not going to follow And that's happened, right?
	A friend of mine's dad had a store.
	I'd go in and he'd say, help yourself to a water.
	Or I'd go in and say, listen, I'm really thirsty.
	I've got no money.
	Can I grab a water?
	He'd say, yeah, yeah, go ahead.
	Right?
	So I'd go take the water, leave without paying.
	But I am openly abrogating my implied contract with him.
	Now with women, there is an implied contract.
	That if you sleep with a woman, you are at least open to the possibility of seeing her again.
	That's the implied contract.
	Now, you can say, well, that's women's job to figure out.
	And you're right, you're fine.
	But an honorable man recognizes that as the implied contract.
	And if you want to sleep with a woman and not want to see her again, it's because you don't like her as a person.
	Right?
	Now, if you go to a woman and you say, I really don't like you as a person, but you've got some great tits.
	So I want to have sex with you and then never see you again, because I really, really dislike you as a person, but I'm attracted to your body.
	Oh, that's honest, right?
	Now, any woman who will say yes to a man who despises her, but wants to have sex with her just for her body, Is a very low quality human being and then of course you run the risk of leaving with sort of a callous smile on your face and God knows what bacteria growing in your groin.
	So if you go to a woman and say, you know, I don't want to see you again because I don't like you, but I want to have sex with you and then never see you again.
	I mean, then if you have sex, I consider that sort of unappealing.
	You're kind of separating your sexuality from your values in that you're indulging your sexuality with someone whose values you find despicable or gross or nasty or who has no values at all if you just find them shallow or whatever.
	It's like If you date a woman in her early 30s and you have no intention of getting married, settling down and having kids, and you never have that conversation with her, there is an implied contract with women, particularly in their early 30s, that if you're going to date them, that if they want to have kids, you can't waste their time.
	That's just an implied...
	Now, you can again say, listen, I don't want to have kids with you.
	I don't even think I really like you, but I'll date you for sex and, you know, a bit of cuddle time on the couch.
	Then you're honest.
	you're not breaking any implied contracts.
	Right?
	But if you break implied contracts, and they're always implied, you cannot assume that they're not implied...
	Maybe the guy doesn't mind if you take his candy bar, but you cannot assume that.
	If you break implied contracts, that's dishonorable.
	Yeah, someone just posted it.
	I think it's true.
	Two-thirds of Americans have an STD. For the antinatalists, that STD is called life, which I think would be 100% of living Americans.
	I mean, we all know this to be true.
	We all know this deep down.
	That a woman has to be seriously destroyed to only want empty sex with men she doesn't like.
	That is a dangerous and unstable, fatal attraction style environment.
	You're just, you're dangerous.
	If you date a woman like that, you're gonna get stalkers, you're gonna get knife-tire slashes, you're gonna get like crazy stuff, right?
	So a woman who is that destroyed and is that dangerous that she openly welcomes empty sex with men she hates?
	Not good.
	So you'd be wise not to do that, but you need to respect the implicit contract.
	Somebody who's writing here, the implied contract is only in the head of the woman who thinks love and sex are inseparable.
	Yeah.
	That is the implied contract.
	So you need to address that if you're going to be honest.
	If you lie to a woman to get her into bed or if you mislead her to get her into bed, that's dishonorable.
	It's not evil.
	I don't know that you'd ever go in jail for it.
	But it's not moral.
	Because you're lying.
	To remove a value from someone at their expense.
	It's the fraudulent.
	Yes, men can have an implied contract.
	And we can talk about that another time.
	But we're just talking...
	Somebody asked me this question about...
	Having sex with a woman that you don't ever intend on seeing again, and this is my argument for it.
	You should not lie to people.
	You should not mislead people.
	You should not defraud people.
	So if you can be honest about your sexual desires with a woman, that's one thing.
	If you lie and mislead her by Pretending to accept and understand the implied contract with no intention of honoring it, that's wrong.
	So, I hope that helps.
	If you're done, oh, one little correction.
	Sorry about that.
	So, in the Peter Schiff show that I did on Friday, I talked about, and I got some bad information from someone, and I apologize for that.
	I didn't have time to check it.
	The person who miked Peter Schiff is not confirmed as the person who was an unpaid intern.
	It was the person who booked Peter Schiff and who was in the room who started at The Daily Show as an unpaid intern.
	I just wanted to put that little correction out there because it doesn't fundamentally change the argument, but it is nonetheless important to mention.
	So that's it for that.
	Freedomainradio.com.
	Please share with your friends.
	FDRURL.com forward slash donate.
	Please, please help out the show.
	I believe it's unique.
	I believe it is a very important conversation for the future happiness and peace of mankind.
	If just parents did what the science in this show just says, we would end up in a generation or so with no war and little government.
	So thanks to everyone for all that.
	Mike, do we have any other announcements?
	This Tuesday, February 4th, Steph is going to be at the World Affairs Conference in Toronto, Ontario, Canada at 9 a.m.
	sharp.
	It's a three-person panel on the drug war.
	So get there early because it's going to be 9 a.m.
	sharp.
	But yeah, February 4th, this Tuesday, World Affairs Conference, Toronto, Ontario.
	That's right.
	Join me Tuesday in Toronto for a druggie three-way.
	That's the marketing spin.
	Have yourself a great week, everyone.
	We will chat with you on Tuesday night.

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