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Jan. 9, 2014 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:12:57

2582 The Matriarchal Lineage of Corruption - Wednesday Call In Show January 8th, 2014

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	Hello, everybody.
	Stefan Molyneux from Freedom Man Radio.
	Hope you're doing well.
	Do you know I'm still jittery from the caveman coffee, which I believe has replaced my spine with wobbly titanium.
	Thanks again to Joe Rogan for his hospitality in California.
	Thank you so much to California for not being Canada.
	Thank you, Mike.
	Thank you, listeners.
	Thank you, India.
	Thank you, Tara.
	And let's get on with the first caller.
	Via phone, it's going to be Brenton.
	He's our last phone caller ever.
	Alright, from the submarine, using the satellite, a series of volcanic burps into the atmosphere, we have Brenton.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi, Steph.
	How are you doing?
	What can I do for you?
	I'm doing pretty good.
	I'm a little nervous, just to tell you that, before I get started.
	Okay, so...
	I'm calling, I kind of see it, I've been listening to past call-in shows trying to, you know, figure out what makes a good call and what doesn't, you know, and how to present your questions and such.
	So I'm just going to do my best here.
	So I guess as an analogy, I kind of see my issues that I'd like to get your opinion on.
	It's kind of like a It's like a barbell, like holding up a barbell, and one side has the weight of my present situation, and the other side being my childhood, of course.
	And I guess I would just start with my present situation, but I know that the two are linked, and just kind of see where I guess you would take it from there.
	Yeah.
	I have a four-year-old son.
	So I relate a lot to what you talk about with parenting.
	And I'm very envious of how you've done it right.
	I wish I would have had the knowledge, you know, a few years ago to go the right path, you know, or to do it differently than I've done it.
	What did you do that was the wrong path?
	Well, I didn't have enough self-awareness, you know, to choose the right partner, you know, to choose the right person to have a child with, and I'm not going to put all the blame on that.
	You know, I also didn't have enough, you know, knowledge myself to, you know, I don't want to leave myself out of this and blame and just blame.
	So, you know, in a way, my life has kind of always been like this day late and dollar short kind of situation where, you know, the lessons, you know, I have to experience it for the lessons to fully, you know, take roots, if that makes any sense.
	But, uh, so, so I don't know if, if any of this is irrelevant, please, you know, just stop me.
	I'm just trying to, I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, as you said, it's like any of your, you know, other calls is that, you know, part of the trick of this show is to know when to stop talking and I am kind of nervous.
	So, you know, keep going.
	Forgive me if I, if I run.
	Okay.
	No, keep going.
	So, um, yes.
	Okay.
	So I, uh, so I, I live in Minnesota.
	I'm not from Minnesota.
	Um, I'm from Northern California, originally born and raised, and that's where I met my son's mother.
	And I don't have any family in Minnesota, anywhere near there.
	I can tell you that living in Central Minnesota is kind of like comparable to if you're Canadian, you're living in It's Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
	I mean, it totally sucks.
	There's hardly any redeeming qualities.
	I mean, at least Saskatoon is kind of fun to say, you know, but it totally sucks.
	It's about six months out of the year, you know, it's a pretty horrible winter.
	My interests and hobbies tend to go towards outdoor activities like Fishing and hiking and exploring in general.
	I have stayed in Minnesota for my son, though I can tell you that if my son didn't live there, I wouldn't live within 5,000 miles of there.
	I feel pretty trapped.
	My son is held hostage there to a certain extent.
	Are you not married to the mom anymore?
	No.
	We were never married.
	We were together for a couple of years before we got pregnant.
	I would say we had a really great relationship then, before that.
	We did buy a home together Which I signed off my interest in to her through a pretty messy separation.
	If this is a sidebar, please stop me, but I could be kind of like a cautionary tale for anyone, any listeners that are thinking about having children with somebody and if there's any doubts whatsoever is that I can tell you firsthand that if a woman wants to, she can completely I call it the seven-headed hydra, which is the government, the state, to completely wreck your life.
	And that's pretty much what happened to me, is that soon after my son was born, his mother wanted me completely out of her life and his life.
	Completely?
	You mean like no alimony, no child support, nothing like that?
	Oh, well, definitely that.
	Yeah.
	Oh, so she didn't want your money completely out of his life?
	That's correct.
	Right.
	And I have...
	Yes.
	But she did...
	She made me go to court to...
	I'm pretty bitter about this.
	I'm just trying to stick to the facts here, but I clawed back some...
	Basic rights from the state to have some very minimal visitation with my son.
	I represented myself.
	She had a lawyer.
	It still, representing myself, cost me, I would estimate $8,000 to $10,000 and a good six months of fighting it in the first round.
	I have found that these In the case, what you would call, like, parental rights are very unenforceable and kind of almost ceremonial.
	She still pretty much does whatever she wants.
	Like, for example...
	So, my...
	This is really hard for me to talk about because it...
	You know, I love my son a lot, and You know, but he has always been in daycare.
	She works full-time.
	She's a librarian at a university.
	My hopes when he was born was that I could be what I called, you know, daddy daycares, which is just, you know, kind of like what you do.
	My lifestyle is such that I would pretty simply, and when we were together, we could have easily have done that where I stayed home and was a primary, you know, But she obviously didn't want that.
	And so when she ran me out of the house and out of his life and their lives, her life, he instantly started going to daycare within, I think he was only about two or three months old.
	He's being completely raised by strangers to this day, in my opinion.
	This is what It sets him up to fall victim to another part of the system, which is he has her...
	Okay, so the daycare that he was in originally started saying that he has emotional problems and he was acting out and so forth.
	He was only two at this time and recommended that he goes to a doctor to get these things assessed.
	Now, his mother is kind of a sitting duck in this regard because she doesn't have any support around her either.
	All her family lives in Michigan.
	She's, in my opinion, not very close to them.
	Well, she could have had support, say, from you, right?
	Exactly.
	Yeah.
	I mean, it really is.
	You know, she's not from Minnesota.
	I'm not from Minnesota.
	We are my son's...
	His name is Miles.
	That's okay.
	I'll just use his name.
	We are, you know, Miles' entire life and family immediately around him.
	And so...
	But she did...
	She was not letting me see him for a long time.
	I did finally get every other weekend, which is ridiculous.
	It's...
	I'm trying to stick on the path here, but basically what it is is I see him for 48 hours and then my life goes into waiting mode where I'm just waiting for the next time to see him.
	I don't have a traditional job.
	I mean, I work for myself.
	And I have a very small house.
	I did buy a house eight blocks from the house that I Passed on to them.
	One good thing about Minnesota, I suppose, is that it's fairly cheap in the whole scheme of things.
	And so I bought a very small house for $20,000.
	So it's paid for, I call it the Miles Bunker.
	It's 450 square feet.
	It's very difficult to live there with six months of winter and such.
	Okay, so he has been being railroaded.
	You know, problem child status.
	In my opinion, he does not have any problems other than he's not getting what only parents and family can give them.
	And I know you've talked a lot about this.
	I totally agree with you on this, is that, you know, people, you know, minimum wage jockeys making 70 bucks an hour, you know, paid to care for a child can Nowhere come close to giving what a genuine, loving parent can give them.
	So they have diagnosed him with autism, which, in my opinion, he does not have.
	He does have an idiosyncratic personality, you know, but I don't see it as a problem.
	I would say that before the medicalization of childhood happened, whenever this did happen in the past 20 or 30 years, you know, this would just be, you know, a unique individual.
	And so, I'm sure that if I was a child today, I would be diagnosed with, you know, I mean, I believe it's going that direction that, you know, children are just a commodity and they're trying to figure out how to medicalize their lives and they'll make money on them.
	So he is now, you know, under this diagnosis.
	His mother actually did all of this behind my back.
	And all it took for her to do that was to tell the health provider, if you want to call them that, you know, the clinics that were administering this testing, that she just didn't know how to get a hold of me.
	Even though I live eight blocks away and, you know, we text and talk on the phone, you know, a couple times a week, I suppose, regarding our son, you know, but it just shows that she can, you know, and mother, with this attitude, can pretty much do whatever they want and just write the father out of it.
	And most of the system will gladly allow them to do that.
	So I literally, after all the testing was done, it was about six months worth.
	It went over a spring and a summer.
	I was just given a bunch of paperwork saying, you know, surprise, your son is diagnosed with this condition, and this is what we're going to be helping him with.
	There's just a legion of experts that come in and pay off their student loans, I suppose, and would diagnose a hand sandwich with autism if it helped do that.
	And on top of that, the way the court orders are written, I have to pay a large percentage of the deductible for this.
	So on top of my child support that I do pay every month, and I have paid since he was born, voluntarily until it became compulsory to the courts, is all these medical bills, which I completely do not agree with.
	I don't agree with the diagnosis.
	I tried to stop it.
	One peculiarity that I tried to use as an angle to slow it down and to have it reassessed was some of the experts were going under the DSM-IV guidelines, and you probably know this, that DSM-V characterizes autism spectrum as different and in some ways harder to Paying on a child.
	And the DSM-5 was already, you know, the criteria, the standing criteria when he was being diagnosed, it wasn't in print form yet.
	And so they just went ahead and used the DSM-4 because it wasn't...because they could, basically.
	And so I tried to use the angle of, you know, he should be reassessed on top of that.
	You've never, you know, you've never viewed him in my company.
	I would have a completely different, you know, story to tell you about, you know, how I think he is.
	And, you know, and they kind of just frame...
	It's a frame-up to lead to, you know, a conclusion, you know, that they want, in my opinion.
	And so...
	And so...
	That's where it's at now.
	I feel like my son is being railroaded.
	What I think is towards eventually being medicated by incredibly dangerous drugs that I do not agree with at all.
	His mother does take pharmaceuticals.
	She's medicated for So she's pro-medication, pro-pharmaceuticals.
	I'm not.
	I'm very worried.
	I keep on moving my line in the sand.
	You know, I keep telling myself, well, if this happens, I'm going to give up.
	And then, of course, it does, or something worse, and I keep moving my line because I can't, I don't want to I abandoned my son.
	He really is, and this kind of leads over to the other side of the barbell that I was originally talking about, which is, you know, my history, my childhood, and that is my son is, you know, really my only family, and he has taught me what love is.
	I mean, I can honestly say that I really didn't know what love was until he was born, and so He is as valuable to me as I believe I am to him, and I can only give him things that I can only give him, and no one else certainly is.
	But my line of the stand currently is that if they ever put him on medications, I can't watch that happen in front of me.
	Um, that's just too much, that's just too much to do.
	Especially, you know, I've kind of used the analogy of like this, this form of fatherhood is like watching your child through a thick glass window and there's strangers on the other side running his life and you're screaming through it trying to make, have some effect.
	But, you know, but they signal you.
	You know, they can't signal you.
	And so, so I was, you know, I was hoping you might have some insight on any of that.
	Well, I'm incredibly sorry to hear about all of this.
	I mean, I mean, words fail me.
	It's just appalling what your wife is doing or your ex-partner.
	I don't know what the hell to call these sorts of things.
	It's unutterably immoral.
	I call her a co-parent.
	Yeah, I mean, but if she was a co-parent, that wouldn't be so...
	So bad.
	This is like a gene sniper or something like that.
	I mean, it's just horrible.
	And I am incredibly sorry for what is occurring for you in this area.
	And I am so, so sorry.
	That your obviously deep parental love for your son is facing these kinds of obstacles that you have faced months in court, $10,000 worth of costs even representing yourself.
	I mean that is incredibly monstrous.
	I'm incredibly sorry for the choices that your wife is making and what that's going to do to her adult relationship with her child when your son grows up.
	Because what women can get away with now is going to be really fucking clear in 10 or 15 years to everyone as absolutely unacceptable.
	I know that there are asshole dads out there and deadbeat dads and so on, but we're just talking about women in this call.
	When your son gets to be 12, 13, 14, 15 years old, There are going to be some very loud voices and very clear voices in society that are going to reveal to that, to your precious boy, exactly what a monster his mom has been.
	You know, whatever disagreements she may have with you, I get, you know, you may not have been a perfect partner and you certainly weren't in terms of choosing who the mother of your child was, but there's no excuse for that.
	Coming between a child and his father no matter what your issues are with the father.
	There's no excuse for that at all in any way shape or form whatsoever.
	So I just I really wanted to to point out just how appalling that behavior is and I'm really sorry that we don't live in a society that sees that as clearly now.
	You know, there's only a phrase deadbeat dad.
	There's no phrase like rat bitch mom, you know?
	But they are tragically and appallingly a common species in the realm of familial breakups.
	And I'm so sorry for all that you're suffering through this process.
	I just really, really wanted to be clear.
	About that.
	I'm so sorry.
	And I'm really, really pissed at your partner, your ex-partner.
	And the only thing worse than doing all of this shit is doing it in Minnesota, for God's sakes.
	You know, why couldn't she be a bitch in Hawaii?
	Talk about rubbing snow in the salty wound, you know?
	Well, I've been saying this from the start is that if this was happening, you know, anywhere else, you know, that I put a lot of stock into, I guess, my, you know, geographical surroundings.
	And for reasons like I've said about the hotness, you know, and things that I do for fun.
	And if this was happening anywhere else, you know, I could probably...
	I haven't put up a fight like this for just about ever, but yeah, happening in central Minnesota...
	I mean, just to give you an idea, they call Minnesota the land of 10,000 lakes, and that is true, except within a couple miles square radius of where I live.
	I mean, it's just...
	you can't find a worse armpit than that.
	Yeah.
	So I'm sorry.
	And I don't know, you know, what the hell do I know, but when a child has been through this level of dysfunction, you know, I mean, of course, the thing that's tortuous is having some idea of what poison the mom might be dripping into this poor boy's ear.
	Having no control over the message, over how you're characterized, over how you're portrayed, over...
	I mean, especially when she's there for the most part, he's just going to have to cleave to whoever has the most power and control over him, right?
	Yes.
	What I'm worried about, I'm worried about a lot of things, but one of my biggest worries is that he is going to be convinced that he has problems.
	And, you know, and that does irreparable damage.
	I mean, that is essentially what happened to me as a child in different ways, but, you know, and that hangs with you forever.
	I mean, I'm 41 years old now, and I still wrestle with my inner child.
	I'm 41.
	Right, right.
	Well, I will tell you this, that given your dedication as a dad and your pursuit of self-knowledge, it's not happening again.
	So when he gets older, he's not going to have a kid with someone like your ex-partner, right?
	I agree when you said that the only thing that stops intergenerational abuse and neglect is finally someone recognizing it, getting angry about it, and saying, I'm not going to pass this on, and I'm not passing it on.
	I can tell you that.
	Right.
	Now, if you don't mind me holding you up, You know, like those old movies in World War I where they'd put a helmet on a stick and they'd poke the helmet up to see if there were snipers, you know, shoot at the helmet.
	If you could say something to the young men, or maybe the not-so-young men who are listening to this show, and you could offer them some words of advice on how to not get into this kind of situation.
	It's...
	It's something good that can come out of this.
	Like you see that smoking crater over there.
	Don't do that, right?
	Were there signs that you're looking back that you could see just how rancid she was going to become?
	Was there any evidence in her history or in her personality?
	What were the signs that you could sort of go back in time and say, ah, run!
	What would you say to people to help them avoid this?
	What would you say to men?
	Yeah.
	Well, I appreciate you asking me that question, you know, because I would like to...
	I do think I have some, you know, like I said, a cautionary tale.
	But I can tell you a lot that I know now came after the fact by listening, you know, to you and your show.
	You know, I wish it was only happening before, you know.
	You taught me a lot.
	But, yeah, if I could give any warning...
	I would say that there's probably nothing more valuable and important and a favor you could do for yourself than to pick the right partner in your life.
	I'm a fan of this.
	The people, Helen and Scott Nearing, they wrote these great back-to-land books back in the 70s.
	Um, called Living the Good Life, and they asked, um, Scott Nearing, when he was on his deathbed at 100 years old, you know, what, you know, what is the, like, the one most important piece of advice you could give anyone, and he said, just find a good partner, you know, and, and, and I agree with that totally,
	is just find a like-minded person, um, that has as close to the same values that you have, um, For example, I strive for simplicity in life.
	My dream is always to be as self-sufficient as possible.
	Things like growing gardens and burning firewood and building your own house and so forth.
	My son's mother doesn't value those things at all.
	When I look back in hindsight, I say, why in the world did I go forth in a relationship and have a child with someone that doesn't share my values?
	So, of course, we're not going to work out if we don't share the same values, you know.
	I can, I, I don't know another word for it, I guess, but, you know, someone that is pro-family.
	I think that it's an epidemic.
	How many people don't value children, don't want to have children?
	That doesn't stop them.
	There's a lot of people that have children anyways, but someone that really wants to have children, is in it for the long haul, Likes being around children.
	All these things seem to, you know, sound like common sense, but...
	But does your wife...
	Sorry, does your ex-partner not...
	I mean, she's spending a hell of a hell of a lot of time with your son.
	Does she not like kids?
	Well, she's not a natural parent.
	She's not a natural mother, I can tell you that.
	I mean, I think she's trying to, you know, to do a good job in a way.
	She doesn't actually spend a lot of time.
	No, listen.
	You cannot say she's trying to do any kind of good job if she's barring the father from contact.
	I agree.
	I agree with that.
	Again, if the father's not abusive, and I obviously have no reason to believe that you are, if the father's not abusive, then the mom is incredibly destructive in keeping the father away.
	It's one of the worst things that you can do to a child is to keep particularly the same-sex parent away from the child, right?
	And so, no, she's absolutely not doing, she's not trying to do a good job.
	I don't know if she's trying to hurt you or she's just acting out some unprocessed shit from her own childhood or what.
	This is not even remote.
	I just don't want you to think that anyone who keeps you away from your child is doing any kind of good job.
	Right.
	Yeah, like you said in, you know, in past podcasts that, you know, when people say, well, you know, you know, my parents always said me, you know, they didn't beat me and things.
	It's like, well, yeah, you know, a prison guard sees you, you know?
	It's like, I mean, it's not a bar to aim for.
	And in that sense, when I say that, you know, she's not blatantly You know, being a bad mother, I just mean in that respect.
	But she is blatantly being a bad mother by keeping you from your son.
	I agree.
	So you asked, you know, does she like being a parent and she spends a lot of time with him?
	You know, this is one of Just another tragic aspect to this is that in the whole scheme of things, she really doesn't spend a lot of time with him because his average day, Monday through Friday, is he gets up between 6 and 7 in the morning.
	He's rushed through his morning with her on her way to work, and he spends all day At either a daycare and some days, half days at a school, they call it a school, you know, and then she picks him up at 4 or 5 and he goes to bed by 7 and repeat, repeat, you know, and then she has him every weekend that I don't have him.
	And if you calculate in the bigger chunks of time that I get him in the summer that I That I got the court order to agree to, to which when I have him I spend, you know, 24 hours.
	I should say I took her back to court last year and I got my every other weekend extended to four day chunks.
	And so I get him every other Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
	And when I have him those days, I have him 24 hours a day.
	So I don't know if that makes sense.
	I've actually broken down the time before, and in many respects, the way she has structured this, neither one of us are getting to spend...
	I mean, there are strangers spending more time with them than we are.
	Do you think there's any chance she'd call into this show?
	No.
	I have sent her links to the ones...
	To the podcast that I think are most relevant, that she could learn the most from, that you have done.
	As far as I know, she doesn't listen to them.
	All right.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Yeah, I mean, she's certainly welcome to.
	I think it would be, obviously, to her benefit.
	At least I hope it would.
	But, yeah, some people you can't make them do.
	Can't make him do it.
	Anyway, all right.
	Now, you've given a lot of abstract stuff, you know, make sure they want kids and so on.
	Well, obviously, I mean, if you want to have kids with someone, you should make sure they want kids.
	But what was her childhood like?
	Like, when you, you obviously knew her pretty well, right, before you had kids with her.
	I mean, what were the signs that she was going to turn out this way?
	You know, people's behavior doesn't, you know, come out of nowhere.
	Yeah.
	Well, her...
	So I have met her parents, obviously.
	Her father was an alcoholic for all of her childhood.
	So much so that he actually owns a bar.
	Nice.
	Inherited from his parents or her grandparents.
	So, you know, it's been in the family.
	And...
	I think that affected her a lot as a child, created her personality to a great extent.
	She does have obsessive-compulsive tendencies.
	If I had to put them on a scale to 1 to 10, I mean, I would say she is maybe like a 6 or a 7, something like that.
	I mean, she doesn't have to turn the light switch on and off 50 times or something like that.
	But it's noticeable.
	She's a very rigid person and is locked into a lot of routines.
	And if she deviates from those routines, it causes anxiety.
	Okay, now...
	Her father was an alcoholic and did she ever go to therapy?
	How was she fixed in terms of self-knowledge?
	What did she...
	I mean, did she have an approach to self-knowledge?
	Did she really work on self-knowledge?
	Like, was she...
	It sounds like her past is really unprocessed.
	I mean, based upon her actions.
	I think so.
	She does...
	She does have her strength.
	But I would...
	Not being an expert, you know, obviously, but she's very emotionally immature, and she's very stubborn.
	No, I mean, she's abusive, right?
	Yeah, well, she can be.
	I mean, Yeah, I mean, like, you're being nice, right?
	And I appreciate that.
	But anyone who stonewalls the father from seeing the child, I mean, this is downright abusive to you and to the child.
	I agree with that.
	I only try and give you, you know, a fuller picture.
	I'm trying to see it from her perspective enough so you could know how she is.
	Well, okay, that's nice.
	Okay, so what science did she give you that she could be abusive before you had children?
	Well, she, you know, I don't want to completely leave myself out of this.
	I mean, we had...
	No, no, no, no, no.
	Look, I appreciate that you're trying to be all balanced and this and that, but we're in the mode here where we're trying to help men not get into your situation.
	Right.
	Right?
	So what were the signs that she...
	Look, you did not create the problems in her personality, right?
	No.
	So what were the signs that she could be abusive...
	Before you had children.
	Okay.
	Well, here's a big red flag, also, is that she never doesn't have anything nice to say about any of her past partners or boyfriends.
	They were always, you know, Losers.
	They were always users.
	They always had some problems, whether it be they drank too much or they didn't work enough or, you know, they were just always these grade-A losers.
	Alright, so hang on.
	So she had a habit or a history of choosing shitty partners?
	Yes.
	And she only blamed them?
	Yes.
	And did she ever say, man, did I ever choose the wrong guy?
	Not that I recall.
	Right.
	No, this is funny.
	I was once set up with a friend a long time ago.
	A friend of mine set me up with this woman.
	And yeah, it's a nice enough woman.
	But she was talking about how her last boyfriend left her like, I don't know, $17,000 in debt on her credit cards or something like that.
	And she was just like, yeah, it's unbelievable.
	he was such a jerk he was blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and I was like man are you kidding me Jack?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, that's...
	Would you like to do this again?
	No!
	Sorry, go ahead.
	That is exactly what the guy that, you know, that she was with before me did to her.
	They put her in...
	Massive credit card debt, which this probably won't come to any surprise to you, I ended up paying off when we got pregnant.
	I was pretty serious about it.
	She was in debt to a previous boyfriend, which you were going to have to pay off, and you thought, let's get pregnant.
	Is she a witch?
	Like, did she steal one of your testicles, mix it up with the dragon fire of some ancient animal, and control you in that manner?
	Did she have hostages from your family?
	She does have a hostage of my family now, but no.
	No, no, no!
	Before!
	Before!
	No.
	How it went was when we got pregnant, it's very important to me to live within my means and to not be in debt.
	And so, I paid off her car and I paid off her credit card, which was all lumped into one bill through her credit union at the university that she works for.
	So that we could have very minimal monthly payments with the idea that...
	We?
	Our time...
	Where's the we?
	Yeah.
	I see you paying.
	I don't see the we.
	Yeah.
	I know.
	Well, it's...
	None of it makes any sense.
	I mean, it's...
	You know, I've heard you say in one of your podcasts, you don't understand how getting new drapes for the house can be more important than spending time with your children.
	And that's really what it does come down to.
	And I've always seen it that way as well, is that I'll gladly take a very modest house and drive a modest car and eat modest food, you know, to have more time to, you know, before my son came, I guess, to do interesting things in life and have experiences.
	And after my son came, it's to spend time with my son.
	So, Well, sorry, but you did a little bit train her to treat you as a pushover and a cash cow, right?
	Well, I suppose.
	I mean, nobody taught you, like, you don't pay women's bills because they're not children.
	You know, like, if my daughter likes this Android game, I guess it's on the iOS 2 called Dragonvale.
	And I do not let my password automatically get saved for in-app purchases or any app purchases because she will say, oh, I'll buy some gems, right?
	And this game is like impossible to get gems, right?
	Because why?
	Because I will have to cover her purchases.
	I will have to pay for what she buys.
	Why?
	Because she's five.
	Don't pay women's bills.
	They're not children.
	I'm not saying this to you.
	You're stuck with it now.
	But I'm telling you, I'm telling you, guys, guys, don't pay women's bills because that turns them into hookers.
	Because if the only thing she's bringing is a vagina and what you're bringing is a credit card, you're a John and she's a hooker.
	Do not pay women's bills!
	I know that now.
	I'm not saying this to you.
	You know it now, right?
	I'm just saying don't turn someone you like into a prostitute.
	My mindset at the time was that It would benefit us all in a sense of we were a team and nothing will defeat a plan like being in debt.
	And so my goal was to have as debt-free as possible by the time my son was born.
	That was the mindset at the time.
	There's no us there.
	You were paying the bills, right?
	Well, I mean, she paid some bills.
	I mean, she has a better job than I do.
	She makes more money than I do.
	Wait, she makes more money than you do, but you're paying off her credit card?
	Yeah, because the way she, and most people...
	Does her vagina shoot rainbows?
	I'm just, I'm curious what magical power this woman has.
	Right.
	No, I hear that.
	Is she so attractive that when she lies back, you expect to see a staple in her belly button because she's like a pin-up?
	That won't mean anything to people who are on the internet for porn, but I mean, God!
	God!
	She makes more money than you do, and you were making sure that she's not in debt.
	Yeah.
	Well...
	Dude, what happened when you were a kid?
	Hang on.
	What happened when you were a kid?
	Like, who taught you that you need to approach a woman on bended knees, broken balls, and an open wallet?
	Well...
	I can tell you, I do think this is all relevant, and it's a complete analogy of the barbell I was trying to use to approach this.
	You don't have to answer my question, but at least acknowledge it.
	What happened to you when you were a child that you feel so insecure around women that you need to bring so much more than who you are?
	I think I have some of the answers to that.
	Would now...
	Can I go in there?
	That would be a good time.
	Okay.
	So, Yeah.
	So my parents...
	Okay, uh...
	My parents divorced when I was seven.
	I have one brother who's seven years older than me.
	My brother went with my dad and I stayed with my mom.
	I would see my father every other weekend also.
	That's not lost on me, parallel.
	Yeah.
	Sorry, why did one child go with one?
	I mean, separating kids is not exactly standard in these kinds of situations.
	So why did one go one way and one go the other?
	Well, seven years is a fairly substantial distance between siblings, as I understand it.
	But that is a good question.
	My brother definitely wanted to go with my father.
	I was too young, in my opinion, to make a proper choice either way, but neither would have been a good choice in the whole scheme of things.
	So my mom was—I say this literally, okay?
	This is not figuratively.
	My memories of my mother growing up are looking at the side of her head while she watches television.
	She was the most advanced case of television addiction I have ever seen.
	Completely ignored me as a child.
	Right.
	She went to work before I even got up to school.
	I would send myself off to school.
	I would get home from school on the bus before she got home from work.
	She would come in, literally not acknowledge my existence, go to the DHS Rewind, and I guess you've got to be over 40 to know what that is, right?
	And rewind three hours of soap operas that were taped while she was at work, and she would make herself dinner.
	And sit down in front of the stove and, you know, at the wood stove and sort of heater and watch her soaps, including commercials.
	That always intrigued me.
	I never could understand this.
	She didn't even watch the commercial.
	Even men can fast forward their own men's cake.
	Wow.
	And when they're done, she would get up and sometimes take a shower, sometimes not, go straight to bed.
	And that is my relationship with my mother as a child.
	And so, in my opinion, that very much relates to your question of, you know, why am I the way I am with women?
	I mean, it's, you know, I would just call almost a pathological fear of rejection.
	I have very little confidence around women.
	I've learned as I've gotten a little older, I've gotten a little better.
	I think I have some coping mechanisms to deal with these problems, but by and large, it's causing a lot of problems in relationships my entire life.
	I'm in a constant state of feeling either rejected or about to be rejected or something like that.
	It can be a real challenge to deal with by others.
	I know that.
	Yeah, I get that.
	How terrible.
	How absolutely appalling.
	I can tell you that before I met my son's mom, I Literally spent from about age 18, 19 to when I met her kind of being like a drifter in a way.
	I mean, I always worked, but I traveled all over the country and sometimes all over the world.
	I would take trips and have the money to New Zealand and Europe and such.
	I spent about Ten years in college.
	It took me that long to get a degree.
	I wasn't serious about it.
	I actually studied sociology and philosophy, which is kind of a connection.
	I really did what you're doing.
	And I would take time off and I would go traveling and such and so.
	And I know it's partially because I've never...
	I've always used the term once, a culture of one.
	I've always felt like I'm a culture of one.
	I feel very alienated from the rest of humanity to a certain extent.
	I have deep desires to connect with others, but I've never been able to do it very well.
	I spend a lot of time alone, even though I would never say that I'm comfortable being alone.
	I'm always lonely, but I've gotten pretty good at being alone.
	When it sounds like I'm giving my son's mom an empty break, I think it's more coming from...
	I know that I have a lot of issues.
	I bring a lot of issues to the table as well.
	So I can't completely...
	That's what's behind that.
	Right.
	I'm very sorry about, I mean, what happened with your mom.
	What do you think was going on with her?
	I mean, from an empathy standpoint, but I just mean, what do you think was going on with her?
	Was she depressed?
	I mean, what was that all about?
	Yeah.
	Well, I've given this lots of thought.
	And I would call my mother being functionally depressed, if that is a proper term.
	What I mean by that is, you know, she could still muster holding a job.
	I mean, she had a job, the same job for a long time.
	And, you know, she...
	She would keep the bare essentials of keeping life in order going.
	I use that term lightly, but the house is clean and so forth.
	But she would never cook.
	My diet, I say this jokingly.
	I try and use humor in this, but I'm not making light of it.
	I'm 5'10", and I would say I probably would have breached six foot if I wasn't fed a sole diet of frozen burritos as a child.
	That was my diet.
	It was cereal in the morning and frozen burritos in the evening.
	She put no effort into being a parent.
	When you've talked in past podcasts about You know, it's very insidious to have this just current of constant low-level rejection, maybe not so low-level, being leveled during your formative years.
	That does set my childhood to a T, is that the message I was getting constantly was, I regret you being here.
	I'm buying my time until you aren't here.
	Minimize your effect on my life as much as possible.
	Stay out of my way.
	Can't wait until you're gone, right?
	Exactly.
	We also lived out in a fairly rural area, and I didn't have any immediate friends around me.
	I did have some friends at school.
	But I would just, as I got a little older, like in my early teens, I would just go for walks.
	And I think this is what kind of made a, you know, maybe kind of like a love with nature.
	It's my one refuge, if anything.
	And so I would just take these long walks from pretty much right after the frozen burrito to dark.
	And I would come home.
	So I spend a lot of time by myself.
	And so I know that my attitude and my relationship to women are very much shaped by that.
	If I can tell you about my dad now, it doesn't get much better in a sense of so My dad is a...he's a raging asshole, okay?
	He's a total bastard.
	He's a narcissist.
	He was a big-time spanker.
	Okay?
	Um...
	I've had anxiety problems for most of my life.
	I used to have them so bad in my early 20s that social situations, just basically being around people would trigger them panic attacks to the point where I would literally feel like my head would explode.
	There's a movie from the 80s called Scanners.
	I don't know if you've ever seen it.
	It's kind of a cult classic, but there's a scene where This guy's head literally explodes.
	It was kind of like a cutting edge effect of the movies at that time.
	I would always think that literally that was going to happen in my head.
	My head was just going to explode and leave brain matter all over the walls.
	I would try and avoid social situations.
	I made going to school, going to college pretty hard later.
	I'd always take a seat closest to the door in case I didn't need to run out or something.
	And I know that where that comes from is that my dad had this lightning temper that didn't have any limer reason as to when it would come.
	And so the past caller, when you talked about the fight-or-flight mechanism that is always turned on, is that that's definitely I can be described that way as well.
	It would just be...
	You just never knew.
	He was left-handed, okay?
	And whenever his watch...
	He had a watch with an elastic wristband, an expandable wristband, and you knew when his right hand was going for that...
	No, when his left hand was going for that watch and it was being transferred over to the other wrist...
	You knew you were going to be bent over his knee and spanked really hard.
	Beaten.
	Sometimes so hard that, you know, a red ass, sometimes down the legs.
	Sometimes I'd try to put my hands up to stop it and my hands would get it, you know.
	And all this was completely, you know, normal to him, I suppose.
	You know, I know where it comes from.
	You know, I mean, He never questioned it.
	Like you said, he wasn't of the generation to say, hey, it's going to stop with me.
	He did other things that I think were even worse in the sense of he's one of these people that will talk in a third person to belittle you.
	For example, if Later, as I was a teenager, if I was working out of my car or something like that, this is one of the ways I tried to find ways to connect with him.
	He's a big car guy.
	He stores classic cars and stuff.
	I would try to be working on my car, and he never took the time to show me any of these things.
	You would think a father would want to do that, but And I would be doing it wrong or something, and he talks like this.
	So he would say, like he's talking to an imaginary audience around you, or if my brother was around, he would get in on this as well.
	And it would be like, oh, look, he's pulling the alternator, or he thinks he's pulling the alternator when really he's going for the AC condenser or something.
	And then, of course, what I've learned later as I've become an adult is that now I have this really Evil, insidious, imaginary audience in my head that causes like a low-level paranoia where I feel like almost everything I'm doing is wrong and being critically analyzed and being critiqued.
	And so related to your last caller, you know, it's being kind of agitated all the time.
	You know, That's why I think I spend a lot of time alone.
	In a way, I want to subject myself to often imaginary, and maybe not so imaginary, criticalness of others, but also, even when it's not there, I've often imagined it is there.
	And it comes from having an absolute bastard and a father that I just, if I have to sum it up in a word, it's just that he just hated me.
	And I've never really understood why, but it's never corrected itself.
	And so, I heard in a past podcast that I was listening to you, where you said, you told someone, the title of it is actually Making Excuses for the Parents, I believe.
	A guy called in that I can relate to very much, and you said, you know, the feelings of revenge need to be honored.
	You know, it's really important to honor those feelings of revenge, which I totally agree with.
	And you got me up to, like, nine, and I was waiting for that ten of explanation on this, and it's this, is that My father is such a narcissist.
	I mean, he's almost 70 now, and he's still...
	If you...
	You know, I am...
	I detached from both of my parents in my early 20s, and I had nothing, literally nothing to do with them for like 10-plus years.
	And this kind of feeds back into the other side of, you know, what we were talking about earlier, is that when...
	My son's mom was trying to get my son diagnosed with autism.
	They were, of course, asking, what is the history?
	What is his father's history and such?
	The only thing I could do was just not comply.
	They tried to contact me.
	They sent me a bunch of paperwork, which was self-incriminating, in my opinion, and just trying to leave the same conclusions that they want.
	And so I just told him, you know, I'm not going to comply with this.
	That's the only thing, that's the only option you're giving me.
	So my father, my son's mom was in contact with him via Facebook and sending him pictures and such.
	He's never met my son.
	He wrote this five or six page long letter in my behalf to my son's mother.
	Kind of like a placeholder.
	Like, well, if he's not going to help you, then I'm going to tell you all about what Brenton is.
	Who he is.
	Which then was put in place of my participation in his diagnosis.
	And I didn't know about that.
	She did that all behind my back.
	They did it all behind my back.
	When I found that out, when I finally got the diagnosis and I read in there that that letter existed, I contacted him for the first time in years.
	I'm sorry, I just missed that.
	He said, what about you that you weren't going to?
	When the clinic was asking for my participation in the form of...
	Yeah, you weren't participating.
	Yeah.
	No, I just want to know exactly what your father said.
	Oh, well, he wrote this five or six-page long letter basically saying that I have all these problems, that I'm this problem child slash problem person, nothing to do with him, like I was raised by ghosts or something.
	I mean, just like I was raised in a vacuum or like a Skinner Box or something.
	So, you know, in his traditional style, you know, blaming me entirely.
	He's a big biological determinist, and I've heard you say, and I completely agree with, is that that's very convenient for people like that to always default to.
	They love to go for the year biologically like that.
	And that's always been his Yeah, then they get to be the victims, right?
	Like, oh, I got a dead son.
	It's weird.
	I've done my very best, but by gosh, it's just very tough to deal with this dead son.
	I mean, it's a real shame.
	And poor me that I did not get a better son.
	Yeah, no, I get it.
	It's just all shitty conscience, right?
	So that is his angle.
	I'm like I am because I was born this way, biological.
	He's a determinist.
	He's a biological determinist.
	That's what I call him.
	Which, of course, if he was a real determinist, then he never would have hit you.
	Because, I mean, it wouldn't be your fault whatever you did, right?
	Yeah.
	I've tried to have these discussions with him before.
	No, it's just sadism.
	I mean, you say narcissist, I say sadist, but what do I know, right?
	He is a sadist.
	I would use that word as well.
	He's a total sadist.
	And the determinism is part of the sadism.
	So, he wrote this letter.
	It was very damning, and it was exactly what The clinic wanted to hear, which was more biological determinism that can be addressed by pharmaceutical drugs.
	I think that's the ultimate agenda, but that's just my personal belief.
	When I found this out, I called him and I said, basically this.
	I won't use his name, but I said, I'm going to come out there.
	I'm going to come out to California, and I'm going to find you.
	And I'm going to beat you to an inch of your life.
	I'm going to...
	And just forgive me here.
	I'm just having my little fantasy here.
	But this is my revenge fantasy.
	And I told him.
	And I meant it.
	I'm going to knock all your teeth down your throat.
	I'm going to...
	I'm going to put the hurt on you really, really bad.
	Like, you finally crossed the line.
	You affected my life.
	My son's life.
	Um...
	You won't listen.
	You won't take any blame for anything.
	You've blamed me my entire life for everything.
	You couldn't leave well enough alone.
	And you went and did something like this, and I just chatted.
	And so when I talked about that podcast where you're talking to the other guy and you brought me up to the nine and I couldn't quite get to the 10 was – that's where I'm at with my father is that –
	I know you said that staying away from finally making the break with your parents if it's not healthy, that's its job.
	The job has been completed.
	I do understand that, but I'm still a taunted to this day.
	I mean, it doesn't give me much satisfaction.
	How did your ex-partner find your father?
	It's not that hard with Facebook and such.
	You have a pretty unusual last name for him.
	Um, yeah, I guess so.
	Yeah, it's not really common.
	Alright.
	It's, uh...
	No, you don't have to tell me, obviously, but...
	No.
	It's, um...
	It's kind of ridiculous, you know, that...
	Like, my brother lives about five miles away from my dad.
	I mean, in the same...
	Our hometown.
	And he has a daughter.
	And...
	My dad might see her once a year, and that's if my brother brings her up to his house.
	And this is how uninvolved he is in Oh, listen, you don't need—you already got him for murder.
	You don't need to throw a parking ticket at him, too, as far as I'm concerned.
	Right?
	I mean, I got it.
	I mean, the man's a monster, a complete monster.
	And Jesus, I mean, first of all, I mean, obviously, you know, you got a lot angrier when you talked about your dad than your mom.
	But I can imagine that even though your mom was basically a lump of fucking coal on the couch— At least she wasn't taking off her watch to hit you, right?
	Or switching her watch.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I've always said it's like they were both just as destructive, but just with different methods.
	It's better to be raised by a corpse than a vampire, right?
	What was that first one?
	A what?
	It's better to be raised by a corpse than a vampire.
	Oh, a corpse.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, not either of the great options, but...
	Right.
	So...
	Yeah.
	You know, my question...
	One of my questions to you would be...
	How...
	How can...
	How can, you know, I've always, you know, I've heard you say this, and I totally agree with it.
	I mean, I wonder if there's even an answer to it, but, you know, it's that if someone, you know, like, I'm never going to be giving back my childhood, you know, and a lot of the people that call in, they'll never get their childhood.
	I mean, you just, you can't get it back, but...
	None of the people who call in will ever get their childhoods back.
	Right.
	Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.
	And, but...
	I've always thought that if I could ever get either one of my parents or both of them to say, you know what?
	We actually didn't do a good job.
	You know, we actually...
	And they claimed it.
	I don't know if we also use the term inner child.
	I mean, I don't know if that's what I call it.
	But my inner child has been waiting for, you know...
	30 years now or whatever to just hear that...
	No, no, no, no, no.
	No.
	No, do not insult your inner child.
	I'm sorry.
	I hate to do it.
	I hate to do it.
	Do not insult your inner child.
	Your inner child is not waiting for any of that shit because your inner child knows exactly who these fucking people are.
	You...
	Have been hoping for an apology so that you don't have to deal with the pain that your inner child has.
	But your inner child is not fucking waiting for an apology.
	Sorry to be...
	This is really important.
	The inner child...
	Not some needy, ignorant, desperate, hopeful...
	No, they know the shit.
	They know the score.
	They know the people.
	If you get an apology, you hope you won't have to deal with the pain of your inner child.
	But your inner child, I don't think, is waiting for an apology.
	Because that's to say that your inner child is stupid about people.
	Because you're not going to get an apology.
	You will never get an apology.
	And that's to say that your inner child despite being repeatedly beaten, ignored, harmed, abused, neglected, starved thinks that these people can somehow become good.
	I don't think that's true.
	I don't think that the inner child is stupid about people.
	I guess my question to you is how, and I think the other guy in that other podcast is trying to ask this similarly, is how does one finally lose is how does one finally lose the need to be a child?
	To be...
	I don't know how to put this.
	It's like...
	I know.
	I mean, I intellectually know the score.
	You know, I understand this.
	But emotionally, I can't let it go.
	And I keep thinking that if...
	I can't...
	The injustice...
	The injustice, I guess, if I had to put it into one word, is that...
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Sorry.
	Here's where we need to be really precise.
	Not that we haven't before, right?
	But here's where I stop listening and start interacting.
	And I have no problem with the listening, right?
	Please.
	Okay.
	What do you mean when you say you can't let go of the injustice?
	What does that mean?
	Well...
	To me, it means that if I could self-sufficiently, emotionally self-sufficiently, I guess, just come to peace with it myself and say, I know...
	You're just giving me adjectives.
	What is this?
	No, sorry.
	I'm going to be so annoying now.
	I apologize in advance.
	I apologize in advance.
	Right?
	I need to know, explain it to me like I'm four.
	I need to know what you mean by all of this, because I don't know what you mean.
	I can guess, or I can interpret, but I don't know what you mean, particularly, by what you're saying.
	And you asked for the number 10, right?
	So, to be number 10, right, on this, precision is important.
	Yes.
	So, let go of the injustice and all that.
	I don't know what that means.
	I don't want to blame.
	You don't want to what?
	I don't want the blame.
	I don't want to have the blame put on me.
	I want it planted firmly where it should be, which is back on my parents.
	In what way is the blame put on you?
	What is the methodology or the reasoning or the story that puts the blame on you?
	What is that?
	It's the story that if you were to talk to them, they would say they did the best they could.
	And I was just right out of the womb, biologically.
	Wait.
	Is this going to be...
	Okay.
	Let's do this then.
	Okay.
	Let's make this real.
	So you be your dad.
	I want to.
	I want to.
	Okay.
	You be your dad.
	I'll be you.
	And you tell me what a problematic kid I was.
	Okay.
	I can do that pretty well because my dad used to have a one-trick pony.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	He's only got five or six cards he pulls from.
	He's predictable.
	He doesn't even have to try that hard.
	He would say that when I used to try and confront him on any of this, he would say, Brenton, he might talk to the audience too.
	He'd be like, look, he's trying to blame others again.
	I would interrupt him and I would say, hang on, Dad, Dad, it's kind of rude to pretend that there's someone else in the room when there's not.
	It's a little nutty too, so don't do that, okay?
	Because there's nobody else in the room.
	Unless you can see someone that I can't, please don't talk to other people who aren't there.
	That's kind of unsettling and kind of weird.
	So please don't do that, but continue with what you were saying.
	I wish that my brain didn't automatically go to that frontal cortex that you talk about in the bottom of the brain.
	That as soon as, you know, I react instantly.
	I just feel emotional.
	If I could be that logical.
	Wait, why did we just jump out of the roleplay?
	Oh, I was just trying to explain why I wouldn't be able to give him that answer.
	No, no, be your dad.
	That's the deal.
	Be your dad.
	Okay.
	Okay, so he's not allowed to speak to people who aren't in the room because it's insane, right?
	So what else?
	How would he say if he was addressing, I'll be you and you be your dad.
	So how would he address that to you?
	Okay, so you have to visualize that he would have his arms completely crossed.
	He would have a complete lack of empathy on his face, a facial expression.
	Okay, dude, dude.
	He would be staring at you.
	I know, I know.
	Just be your dad.
	Don't frame it.
	Just step in the role and be him.
	How would he tell me, as you, who I was or why?
	Brinson?
	Brinson?
	I don't know what to tell you.
	I don't know what to tell you.
	You got all these problems, and you're always trying to find someone else to blame, and you're always trying to blame me, you're always trying to blame your mom, you're always trying to blame everyone else, when it's really you.
	You're the source of your problems.
	This is one of my favorite terms.
	You're the common denominator.
	You're the common denominator in your life.
	So if your life's not working, it's probably coming from you because you're the common denominator.
	So, Brenton, quit blaming me.
	Quit blaming your mom.
	And why don't you just get on with your life already?
	And, you know, you've still got some life left.
	You're not too old yet.
	But, you know, if you don't get on the ball pretty soon, you're going to waste your entire life trying to just not live your life and blame other people for your problems.
	I've had enough with you.
	I'm busy.
	Goodbye.
	Alright, so I appreciate you sharing your thoughts about that.
	I'm a little confused though because you start off by saying that you don't know what to tell me and then you tell me a lot of things.
	Right?
	So, wait, I'm confused.
	Do you not know what to tell me and then the other stuff is like you just don't know?
	Or you do know what to tell me and then the first part is like a lie.
	Right, because if you said, how do I get downtown, and I say, I have no idea.
	I don't know how you should go downtown, but then you should take this highway, then turn left, then go to the third stop, then which one is it, right?
	So, do you not know what to tell me, or do you know what to tell me?
	Which is true.
	Could I continue trying to be my dad?
	Just be your dad.
	Yeah, just be your dad until we stop.
	Okay.
	You know, I could try and help you.
	I've tried to help you.
	I've tried to help you, but you just don't listen.
	You don't listen.
	You never wanted to...
	You don't want to listen to me.
	So I'm not going to waste my breath.
	Wait, hang on, Dad.
	Let me just interrupt you for a sec.
	Sorry.
	Because you're telling me that I don't listen, but right now I asked you a question and you didn't listen.
	So if listening is really important and listening is really good, then what was the question that I asked you?
	Because you think that listening is very important and listening is good.
	What is the question that I asked you?
	You've asked me to tell you why you have these problems.
	No, no, no.
	No, not that.
	No, no.
	No, Ted.
	That's not what I – the question I just asked you.
	Not the one that got you started, the one that I just asked.
	Do you remember what it was?
	Okay, so I just asked you a question, and the question was, do you know what to tell me or not?
	Because you said you don't know what to tell me and then you just told me all these things.
	So it's a little confusing to me, Dad, when you say to me, listening is really important and I don't listen and you're not answering the question I just asked you and then you can't even goddamn well remember the question that I asked you literally about 60 or 70 seconds ago.
	So do you think that listening is important or not?
	Well, if I was going to continue to be my dad, I've never been able to take it this far with him.
	Continue to be your dad.
	But he would say, you know, Brenton, I gave up on you.
	That's what I wanted to say.
	I gave up on you.
	I used to try, but I gave up.
	Daddy, sorry.
	I just asked you another question, and you are not listening to me.
	But you say to me that listening is very important and I should learn how to listen.
	Now I have asked you two questions.
	You have not even acknowledged them.
	You have just gone off ranting on something else.
	So I must ask you again, Dad, is listening important or not?
	If listening is important, why don't you show me how important listening is by actually listening to me?
	If listening is not important and just ranting on your own shit is important, then don't tell me listening is important.
	That's all.
	Just be honest.
	Is listening important?
	If so, show me how with your 70 years of experience you are really good at listening.
	If listening is not important, then don't tell me that it is important because you look like an idiot.
	And what would he say then?
	Thank you.
	I don't know.
	Is listening important or not?
	Is it important or not?
	You told me it was, but you're not listening.
	He would probably say something like, yes, it's important if someone will listen.
	If you have a good relationship with someone, then yes, it's important.
	But with you...
	I gave up on that a long time ago.
	So is it my understanding then, Dad, that you will not listen to anything that I say?
	He would say something like, at this point, yes.
	Okay, so then listening is not important for you in the moment.
	So I'm supposed to listen to you, but you have no obligation to listen to me.
	And he would say, you're the one that came to me.
	Right now, I don't want to be here right now.
	I don't want to be talking to you.
	You're the one that came to me.
	So that's how we'd answer that.
	I don't want to be talking to you.
	So wait, wait, wait.
	So if I'm not agreeing with you, you don't want to talk to me.
	So is it that I'm not allowed to have a different opinion or to ask you questions if you appear to be contradicting yourself?
	By this point, if it hadn't happened already, he would have hung up the phone, or if we were in person, he would have walked away, walked into his shop or his house and locked the door, and he would have escaped.
	Okay, and I get that.
	I get that.
	I understand that.
	Now, what would be clear about that?
	Well, to me, he doesn't He can't.
	He doesn't even have it in him.
	Have what in him?
	To address these.
	It's very convenient for him, being what I would say as a narcissist, to allow everything to stay exactly how it is.
	I don't know what you're talking about.
	No?
	No?
	Everything to stay exactly how it is?
	I don't even know what that means.
	As in...
	He's a bully and a coward.
	I'm sorry?
	I mean, he's just a bully and a coward, right?
	So he tries putting all this heavy shit on you, right?
	Like, you gotta listen and I've given up on you and blah blah blah, right?
	I don't know what to tell you, but then here's ten things I'm gonna tell you, right?
	So he tries all this heavy shit and then when a contradiction is pointed out, he ignores it and then tries to put other heavy shit down.
	When that contradiction is pointed out, he tries other heavy shit if another contradiction It's pointed out, he runs away like a pissy little girl.
	That's called being a bully and a coward.
	He is.
	That's another term.
	I would call him an emotional coward.
	He's an emotional coward.
	You can put the word emotional in front of it if you want, but a bully and a coward.
	And bullies are always cowards.
	Right?
	Yeah, I think that's inclinable, yes.
	Yeah, so what this will tell you is that you cannot point out obvious contradictions in what he's saying, right?
	No.
	You cannot have an opinion that is different from his, and if you resist the sadism, he runs away.
	You see, if you resist the sadism...
	The sadist, the weapons turn on him, right?
	It's like if the sadist is shooting bullets at you, and if you hold up the shield of reason, of UPB, then the bullets turn, they hit and they bounce back, right?
	They bounce back, and then the man has to run away.
	You get it?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Now, the person that you just became obviously is not your dad.
	It's your inner dad, right?
	Yes.
	Now, what's weird but true is that your inner dad is actually there to protect you.
	Because your inner dad can't beat you, but he can prevent you from doing stuff that your outer dad will beat you for.
	Do you understand?
	Yes, I do.
	Yes, I've heard you speak on this before, and I have followed, and it is tricky to follow, but I do understand it, yes.
	Now, your inner dad can't run away, so bring him back.
	Your inner dad can't run away, can't lock the door.
	He's in there.
	It's the difference between your inner dad and your outer dad.
	So bring him back, right?
	We can bring him back in chains if we have to, right?
	Yes.
	So, is he back?
	It's very difficult.
	I know.
	Bring him back.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Get you here to help.
	But we are not leaving.
	You will not leave until this shit is worked out.
	Because you are attacking us, which I completely appreciate.
	I completely appreciate that you stood there as a shield and you prevented us from doing stuff that we could have got beaten for.
	So you protected our physical integrity and you protected our health by yelling at me before my dad would so that I wouldn't do stuff that my dad might beat me for.
	Beat us all for.
	I hugely appreciate that.
	I really do.
	I really do.
	I'm not just saying that.
	That was incredible shit.
	You really had to turn yourself into a nasty fucking specimen to save us.
	To protect us, which sucks for you, right?
	I mean, you don't want to be that guy forever, right?
	No.
	Thank you.
	And you know that he's not around us now, right?
	Yes.
	And you also know that all the energy that goes into making you pretend to be that mean, to pretend to be that usefully mean, is not spent scanning the environment for other mean Because you're like a reaction to a mean guy who was always around, or around a lot, right?
	And all of that energy that you put into protecting us and becoming that one asshole who was so dangerous is now not available to us to scan the environment and keep people like the mother of our child away, right?
	You were so busy being dad that you let us stick our dick in a deep fucking well of crazy, right?
	Yes.
	So you tell me, what do you need?
	What do you need?
	And here's where I shut up.
	Really.
	What do you need, inner dad, to put down your arms?
	You know, I guess the word that comes to my mind is forgiveness. I guess the word that comes to my mind is But I don't know.
	I really don't know.
	Okay, forgiveness.
	Do you mean forgiveness for you being my inner critic?
	Because I'm not forgiving that asshole out there with the watch.
	Because he's got to earn that.
	You don't have to earn forgiveness because you were there to protect me.
	That asshole is never going to earn our forgiveness, and I'm not even going to waste a single calorie of mental energy waiting for that.
	What do you need to take the armor off?
	What do you need to put down your weapon?
	What do you need to feel safe?
	What can I do?
	What can we do that will help you feel safe enough Because you know much better than I do that if we had continued to push our real dad and he hadn't been able to get away, what might he have done to us?
	He might have fucking pushed us downstairs or strangled us or God knows what or even just hit us by accident and what, right?
	And you got press-ganged.
	You got conscribed into this horrible, nasty...
	Stanky-ass Defendobot role, right?
	What do you need to feel safe?
	And it can be magic.
	I don't care.
	Maybe we need to go to Ponyville.
	I don't know, right?
	But what do you need to feel safe enough to start easing out of this role?
	Stefan, I'm not being elusive when I say I was hoping you had the answer and the place to look for that.
	If I knew that, I wish I knew the answer to that.
	That is what I've been looking for my entire life, is how to let that go.
	Yeah, you keep thinking things like letting something go.
	Again, I'm not sure that means anything, because I don't know what let that go means, right?
	It may mean something really important, but it sounds like the Hallmark card of psychologically correct language, right?
	Yes.
	No, I follow and totally agree with you that it's an offense that never got turned off.
	It's like Howl in 2001 or something.
	And I do it.
	My entire life is in constant defense mode.
	Everyone I come across, I'm in constant defense mode.
	And I don't know how to turn it off.
	Well, I think I do, but I don't know for sure.
	It's all theory, man.
	If anyone's got the answer, I think it's you.
	Well, that's very generous.
	Let's see if we can do something that might be helpful along those lines.
	Why was your father in your life?
	Why was my father in my life?
	Yeah.
	Why did you have the father that you had?
	Well, I mean, if I was going to answer that on a surface level, I didn't have any choice Right.
	Who did?
	Who did?
	Him, I suppose.
	No.
	I just went through this with Joe Rogan and we didn't get too far in the topic.
	The reason that you had the father that you had was because your mother chose...
	Yeah, that does make sense.
	Right?
	Yes.
	Who proposed to who?
	I don't know for sure, but I've always assumed my father proposed to my mother.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Of course.
	I mean, your mother couldn't even get off the fucking couch, right?
	Right.
	So, your mother chose your father.
	women choose the men.
	Women don't have to get married.
	Women have lots of career options.
	Women usually have a reasonable number of men who are willing to sleep with them, and women choose from a variety of suitors.
	I assume that your mother didn't look like the elephant man.
	No, she was very pretty.
	And do you know how I know she was very pretty?
	How?
	She married a sadist.
	Did your father, through his intimidation and verbal skills, make a good deal of money in his life?
	Yes.
	He's a multimillionaire.
	Of course he did.
	Right?
	And sadist moneymakers and empty pretty people sadly often make a very common couple, right?
	Yes, that is true.
	Now, if your mother was very pretty, do you think that she could have chosen other people?
	Was your father the only one who was ever romantically interested in her?
	Of course not, right?
	No, I'm sure she had other suitors, yes.
	Of course she did.
	And I'm sure that floating around your mom were some very nice guys.
	I'm a nice guy.
	I was attracted to pretty women.
	I mean, that's why they're pretty.
	It's like saying, why are the flowers bright?
	For the bees, right?
	I've always said that they had to be made pretty because if they weren't, we'd stay, you know, we'd stay far away from them.
	Right.
	What about your ex-partner, pretty?
	Yeah, she is.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it's a Venus flytrap of lipstick and push-ups, right?
	Anyway.
	So floating around your mom were some nice guys.
	But your mom didn't want them, right?
	She didn't want them.
	I'm assuming that I'm talking about it.
	I'm sorry?
	I'm just going to say that they've never talked about this, so I can't answer for sure, but I can assume that yes.
	Okay, you just talk to any pretty woman you meet and say, do you have a problem attracting guys?
	And they'll say, no, I have a problem not attracting guys.
	Right.
	No, I know that.
	I want to look really great because I want the alpha guy, but then I get all these non-alphas after me as well, and I've got to chase them away so that the alpha guy doesn't think I'm interested in betas or whatever.
	Right?
	So she probably had a lot of nice guys floating around her, but she dated, got engaged, married, and had children with the asshole.
	Right?
	Yes.
	And he was.
	He's a total asshole.
	Possessive.
	Right.
	But what you need for your inner father to lay down his arms is to recognize the role and responsibility of your mother.
	Okay.
	Bye.
	In my humble opinion.
	Can you explain that anymore?
	Your father was in your life because your mother chose him over a wide variety of other suitors.
	Women define the relationship.
	Particularly the longer term relationship.
	Because men ask women out and women say yes or no.
	And a pretty woman has lots of guys who want to ask her out.
	And some of them are nice, and some of them are pricks.
	Women who choose the assholes will fucking end this race.
	They will fucking end this human race if we don't start holding them a-fucking-countable.
	I agree with that.
	They are the gatekeepers, as you've said.
	They're the gatekeepers.
	Women who choose assholes guarantee child abuse.
	Women who choose assholes guarantee criminality, sociopathy, politicians, all the cold-hearted jerks who run the world came out of the vaginas of women who married assholes.
	And I don't know how to make the world a better place without holding women accountable for choosing assholes.
	Your dad was an asshole because your mother chose him.
	Because it works on so many women.
	If asshole wasn't a great reproductive strategy, it would have been gone long ago.
	Women keep that black bastard flame alive.
	They cup their hands around it.
	They protect it with their bodies.
	They keep the evil of the species going by continually choosing these guys.
	If being an asshole didn't get women, there would be no assholes left.
	If women chose nice guys over assholes, we would have a glorious and peaceful world in one generation.
	Women determine the personality traits of the men because women choose who to have sex with and who to have children with and who to expose those children to.
	I get that you're angry at your dad and you have every reason to be angry at your dad.
	Your dad is who he is fundamentally because your mother was willing to fuck him and have you.
	Willing and eager to fuck the monster.
	Stop fucking monsters.
	We get a great world.
	Keep fucking monstrous.
	We get catastrophes.
	We get war.
	We get nuclear weapons.
	We get national debts.
	We get incarcerations and prison guards and all the other Florida assholes who rule the world.
	Women worship at the feet of the devil and wonder why the world is evil.
	And then, you know what they say?
	We're victims.
	Poor us.
	And some women are, absolutely.
	But dear God in heaven, men will become whatever women want them to become.
	Because women are the gatekeepers.
	Men will become whatever women want them to become.
	Oh, you want us to have a tan?
	We'll have a tan.
	Oh, do you like six packs?
	We'll do six million sit-ups.
	Oh, you want money?
	I'll go make money.
	Nothing wrong with it.
	It's It's the nature of being a mammal.
	Masculinity is a shadow of feminine desire.
	It moves as feminine desires move.
	Every woman who breeds with assholes is a traitor to virtue.
	And more than a colluder, but a creator of evil.
	And we generally don't even see it, let alone acknowledge it, because they're just victims, you see.
	How many times have you heard pretty women complain about the assholes?
	I mean, your ex-partner was pretty?
	she complained about all the assholes before?
	Yes.
	Thank you.
	And now I've joined that long list.
	I'm just the latest one on that list.
	Except you're not.
	Right?
	That's the tragedy.
	That's the tragedy.
	You are a great fucking guy.
	Trust me, my asshole raider is...
	It's like a dog with real assholes.
	It's pretty sensitive.
	You are a great guy.
	Now, a little whipped, but that's part of the nature of the beast, right?
	But, I mean, you're a great dad.
	I mean...
	You totally care about your son.
	And you spent time and you spent money and you learned how to deal with the legal system and all shit because you really care about your son, right?
	Yes.
	And what happened?
	Tossed aside.
	Raped in the courts.
	Humiliated.
	Lorded over.
	Because your ex-partner Is choosing the thugs of the state over the father of her own goddamn child.
	She is setting upon you the dogs of power.
	rather than have a great guy in the home raising your son.
	Yeah, that is the truth.
	Thank you.
	And it is harming your son, and it's harming you?
	And who is holding her accountable?
	You get angry at your father, and I'm not saying your father's not responsible, He is.
	He is responsible.
	But if being an asshole was not a successful mating strategy, what do you think men would do?
	Drop it like a hot rock.
	That's true.
	Thank you.
	If women...
	And we can't solve this problem for women.
	I mean, don't date women who date assholes is a good plan.
	I don't care how good looking they are.
	You don't date women who date assholes.
	Now, maybe a woman made a mistake.
	She's like, wow, I dated this guy.
	He was kind of a jerk, and I really got scared, and my God, I looked into my family.
	I went to therapy.
	Okay, yeah, absolutely.
	Everyone gets a mulligan.
	Asshole mulligans all around.
	But if a woman openly admits to dating guys who were bad...
	And blames them?
	Or doesn't notice any fucking pattern?
	Do not finish your coffee.
	Be like those cartoons where there's just a tiny little shadow of you as you vanish, which then slowly crumbles to the ground like a little dandelion outline of you.
	Vanish!
	If a woman had an asshole for a dad and she has not worked her fingers to the bone to deal with it, be like the dandelion outlone.
	Vanish!
	Right?
	If a woman even once uses the phrase, man up, boom!
	Boom!
	Vanish!
	Run!
	and hold your wallet with two hands.
	If a woman stares at you when a bill comes and doesn't say anything, boom! ...
	Pay the bill, get off cheap, and run.
	And run.
	Thank you.
	Because she's saying, show me my value by buying my pussy.
	Do you know apes do that?
	Monkeys do that?
	You know, when they install pellets that you can earn, like currency, like money, when they install those, almost the very first thing...
	That the monkeys do, the male monkeys do when they earn those pellets, is they start trading them for sex.
	Let's be slightly better than monkeys, shall we?
	So I think that if you accept that women are central to the cycle of evil in the world, Then you will be able to see how it really reproduces.
	Evil is of matriarchal lineage.
	In the present, I'm not talking, you know, in the Mongol horde and rapes and blah, blah, blah.
	Evil passes through the mother.
	It's Jewish.
	It's a matriarchy.
	Once you see that, you will start to feel safe.
	Thank you.
	Because you will actually have identified not the only danger, but the great unspoken danger in the world, which is the matriarchal lineage of corruption.
	If you ever are with a woman who manipulates through sexuality, who when she's upset with you won't talk to you, who when she's upset with you won't have sex with you, I'm not saying have sex with a man or a woman if you're upset, but talk about it.
	You don't just withhold sex or give sex as a means of behavior modification.
	A pussy is not a kibble.
	Do not be with manipulative people.
	Do not be with indirect people.
	If someone has an issue with you or a question or a problem, they sit down with you, they say, I have an issue with you or a question or a problem.
	If you have to guess if they're slamming cupboards and say nothing is wrong, GTFO, baby, I'm gone.
	If you have to guess, if you have to be psychic, if you have to read the fucking tea leaves of petty manipulative bullshit, get out.
	Don't look back and pray that you get to keep what's left of your soul.
	If she's a groupie, If she reads women's magazines, I'm not saying men who read men's magazines are much better, but if you catch her with a non-ironic copy of Cosmopolitan...
	Cosmopolitan is basically How to fuck him into thinking you're likable Your inner dad I think will be able to relax Yeah When you out your inner mom.
	Because she didn't just sit on the couch and make a bad childhood for you.
	She was much more active than that.
	Does that help at all?
	That makes sense.
	Yes.
	And listen to this call again.
	And when you listen to this call again, listen to the difference in talking about your dad versus your mom.
	With your mom, you're neutral, emotionally empty.
	You've imbibed her passivity and her blame of your dad.
	You're animated by your inner mom when talking about your dad, which again, doesn't mean There's anything wrong with that.
	It doesn't mean you don't have reason to be angry at your dad, but don't have your mom be the one who got away.
	Somebody just asked, what do I think of a woman who withholds sex at the beginning of the relationship for 30 days?
	I think she's got some self-respect.
	Yeah, so tell me what you think.
	I agree with that.
	It makes sense to me.
	I followed you.
	I don't...
	How I feel that transfer is over or speaks to my inner father is...
	You know, these aren't exactly the right words, but like giving...
	You asked, you know, how could the inner father...
	Be able to relax.
	And I wonder if the inner father has a life of his own and a sense of, could you just cut me a break?
	I was here to protect you.
	Hang on, hang on, hang on.
	Okay, let me just do one other quick run to make sure I get the connection clear to you about your inner dad and what I'm talking about.
	Your inner dad is there because you're in danger, right?
	Yes.
	All men who do not see and understand the matriarchy of evil are in danger.
	Did you ever end up with a man like your dad in your life again after you were 20?
	No.
	No.
	But you did end up with a woman like your mother in your 30s, right?
	Yes, and many before her, yes.
	So do you understand the difference?
	That your inner father protected you from your dad because he made sure nobody else came back in who was like your dad, right?
	Yes.
	But he cannot protect you against the women.
	Your inner mother can do that, but you've got to go deep Deep outside the cloud fogs of propaganda to the solid earth to get there, right?
	You've got to look at things sideways to get a straight-on view.
	And so if you get how instrumental your mother was in who your father was, Then you will be safe from women like this in the future.
	And then you can relax.
	Do you think I'm scared of people like my mom coming back in my life?
	No.
	I think you'd recognize them from a mile away.
	Not a bit.
	Am I scared about people like my dad or my brother coming back into my life?
	No.
	Not a bit.
	Because I view neither of my parents as passive.
	I view neither of my parents as victims.
	I know it's a reversal of cause and effect in a sense, but the healing power of finally having someone good partner, which I know that's where you're coming from and you never would have met her, Until you did this work.
	So it's, you know, when I hear being critical of women, I hear basically setting yourself up to have a lonely life.
	Because, you know, anytime I've ever been critical, openly critical about women, they shun you, you know?
	And so, you know, I just, you know, it's He wants to be lonely.
	I've had enough lonely.
	How has aiming to not be lonely worked out for you?
	Not well.
	Yeah, I get that.
	No, you wait.
	For the right thing.
	And you tell the truth to other men and to women.
	There are lots of great women out there who are as annoyed and pissed off as the shit as men are.
	Yeah, I agree that being alone is better than being in a dysfunctional relationship.
	That I do understand.
	Well, no, it's not.
	But now it's going to be very challenging for you to find a good woman, right?
	Yes.
	Not impossible, but challenging.
	Whereas if you hadn't gotten involved with this other woman, I think, how long were you together with her?
	About two years before my son was born.
	And I think you said your son is four, is that right?
	Yes.
	Okay, so if you had avoided that six years ago, you could be in a very different place now, right?
	Absolutely, I think about that every day.
	Sorry?
	Yes.
	Yeah, I think about that every day, yes.
	Now, I think you're still in a better position for finding a good woman now, right?
	Self-knowledge, and you're doing some fantastic work.
	You've had massive kudos in the chatroom for your honesty and courage in this call, which I hugely applaud you for.
	But the choice is not...
	Am I going to be alone or am I going to compromise?
	Because those who do not compromise don't end up alone.
	Those who compromise end up alone and screwed.
	In your case, for the next 14 years, right?
	Yeah.
	Yep.
	So don't put out the false dichotomy of, well, you know, if I criticize women or if I say anything negative about women, women, I love it, you know?
	I mean, it's so funny.
	I don't know, just surviving cancer makes you pretty, I don't know, I don't feel fear anymore.
	But anyway...
	Boy, you know, women sure can't dish it out as a gender, right?
	I mean, do you know the amount of male bashing that I have been exposed to that women cheer for my 47 fucking years?
	Galaxy's full.
	Ocean's full of male bashing.
	And then you say something like, you know, single bombs made bad decisions.
	Oh, it's terrible what he's saying.
	Come on.
	Don't dish it out if you just can't take it.
	Anyway, and it's not even bashing.
	This is a factual statement.
	So, yeah, it's just one of these, you know.
	People, I mean, people haven't got no standards.
	They just do whatever they can get away with.
	And, you know, for a variety of reasons, women have gotten away with a lot, and it's time we helped them out of that irrationality, right?
	Yeah.
	Yes, I agree.
	Is there anything else that you wanted to mention?
	No, I think I'm gonna...
	You know, I really appreciate your time.
	Well, I really appreciate your call, man.
	What a great call.
	Hugely, hugely, hugely appreciate it.
	And...
	I feel for you, brother.
	I really do.
	You're actually, I think, in a pretty good place to start moving forward from here.
	But I'm very sorry that your mom chose your dad.
	I'm incredibly sorry and angry that she did so.
	I'm incredibly sorry and angry that your dad did what he did.
	And I'm very pissed that you live in a society that fails to adequately protect men from exploitation.
	Jesus.
	It's all about the fucking proletariat.
	What about people with dicks?
	P.W.D. Let's protect those people because men alive, they get raped by women financially, through the state, through false paternity, through rape accusations.
	Dear God in heaven, it's not going to come from women.
	But we can at least pass this knowledge across to each other.
	And I'm sure you will at an appropriate time do that with your son too.
	But thank you.
	Thank you for a very, very...
	Great, great call, and I appreciate your courage so much.
	And I hope that you will let me know how it goes.
	I will.
	Thank you very much, Jeff.
	I really appreciate it.
	You're very welcome.
	And thanks to everyone in the chat room.
	You know, it's great to be here live, don't you think?
	You can listen to it later.
	But fdrurail.com forward slash chat, that is...
	The way to experience these shows.
	And I do actually try and dip into the chatroom and see what is going on.
	And I also steal great ideas and call them mine.
	So fdrurl.com forward slash donate to help out.
	I'm very sorry to the listeners we didn't get to.
	But I really, really appreciate the callers who call in.
	That's some great stuff.
	And FDRURL.com forward slash iTunes.
	Joe, brackets, and I, end brackets, made it to number one in iTunes.
	Freedom Aid Radio made it to 74, I think it was, on the top podcasts.
	And that's pretty cool, I would say.
	And...
	Top 10 in the news category.
	Yeah, we made top 10 in the news category, and that's fantastic.
	And I guess, when's the next web thing again?
	The next web event is April 24th and 25th in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.
	The next web conference, Europe.
	Huge event, huge speaking opportunity in front of a total non-libertarian crowd.
	Steph's going to be talking about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, so...
	Definitely if you're in Europe, you're going to want to come out to this one.
	I will be doing striptease for Bitcoins.
	Maybe you don't want to come out to this one.
	Bring.00001 of a Bitcoin.
	The plugs are supposed to make people want to come to the events.
	I've had enough of crushing the avarice of women.
	I think I'm just going to go in that direction and see what my 47-year-old booty gets me.
	And hopefully it will be half a cup of water and some security guards.
	Anyway.
	Have yourself a wonderful week, everyone.
	Yeah, there's a show this Sunday, right, Mike?
	No reason why not.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, a show this Sunday.
	And have a great week, everyone.
	I miss you all already.
	I'll talk to you soon.

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