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Oct. 31, 2013 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

03:00:29

2520 The U.S. Constitution is a Warning Label - Wednesday Call In Show October 30th, 2013

Helping the free market, Obamacare as a test of the American people, the constitution as a warning label, expressing your preferences to your children, the insanity of communicating hell to children, forced into national service, the danger of falsehoods in your historical narrative, living by the rules you create and aiming to be remembered.

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	Good evening, everybody.
	It's Stefan Molyneux from Freedom Aid Radio.
	It's almost Halloween.
	I hope you're doing well.
	Halloween, where we all go out dressed as the state, because I'm in a stateless state of mind.
	Hit it, Billy!
	I hope you're doing well.
	This is the Wednesday night call-in show, just a reminder.
	We will be short a few shows over the next little while.
	I have other things on the go, other things to do, and sorry about that, but we will be back, of course.
	And I hope you're doing well.
	Thank you to everyone who has listened to my Madonna-style bended knee request to take you there to the place called fdrurl.com forward slash donate.
	Thank you everyone who's helping out.
	If you would like to further what it is we're doing here, we would really appreciate it.
	So thank you so much, Mike.
	How's that documentary coming?
	Working on it tonight, actually.
	So we shall see.
	Ah, the art of the non-answer.
	Why don't you just take over the snow?
	No, I'd say it's coming well.
	We put our heads together for a couple of days last week and I think made great progress.
	And so it's really coming along well.
	I think it's going to be very cool.
	We're cutting it down a little bit every time, and I think that's actually for the best time.
	We realize that in order for the red pill to go down, it does actually have to be smaller than your neck.
	So we're shrinking it down a little bit to make it even more easily shareable.
	And I'm very pleased with it.
	So Mike is taking on some cool stuff.
	And I am, as usual, standing by ready to take all the credit.
	So thanks as usual, Mike.
	All right.
	Who do we have up for today?
	All right.
	First up, via phone is Rory.
	So let's call Rory.
	You know, whenever you say it's via phone, I just feel like I have to yell like I'm talking to someone's grandfather or something like that.
	So, you're on a phone!
	What's it like in 1982?
	Can you find my hair?
	Hello, this is Rory.
	Hello, Rory.
	You've reached the mailbox of Free Domain Radio.
	If you'd like to have a question, please leave it.
	We'll attempt to answer it on the next available show.
	Hello?
	Are you for real?
	Yeah, yeah.
	What's up, man?
	Okay, hey.
	Not much.
	Life is good.
	Thank you so much for taking my call.
	My pleasure.
	We haven't had a life is good call in a couple of shows, so this is a nice change.
	Right.
	I have a general question, and if there's time, I have a more personal question, but you do the discretion.
	I will let Mike do the discretion at the end of the call.
	He'll let me know, but go ahead with the general question.
	Sure.
	What are some things that What are things that ordinary people can do to support the free market?
	My first impulse is to say, be a part of it as much as possible.
	And that's a very serious issue for me.
	I don't think you can support, like you can't support the black cause without knowing any black people, right?
	I mean, that's kind of like a joke, right?
	And the best way to support anything, the best way to support anything is to join it and be a part of it and be as embedded in it as much as possible.
	So, you know, I'll sort of give you – let me give you an example and hopefully it will make some sense.
	So I, of course, have said that charity will take care of the poor and that I voluntarily gave up my significantly woefully considerable income to do this.
	And so far, charity has done a reasonably good job of taking care of the show.
	I also say that charity will take care of health care for people who can't afford it or for people who need it.
	And I didn't ask for charity for when I got sick, but I received charity for when I got sick.
	So if you put yourself into the ideals that you proclaim in a very fundamental way, then you simply will have no doubt at all.
	No doubt at all.
	Imagine being a religious person and being able to text God whenever you want it.
	Like anybody asks you a really tough question or something that nobody knows, you just text God and you get that answer, right?
	Right.
	How much confidence would you have in putting forward your position?
	You would be, dare I say, supremely confident, right?
	Because you actually had access to your highest ideals.
	You were embedded in your highest ideals.
	And we all know this, right?
	We all know this.
	I mean, if you want to say to people, here's how you lose weight, you can't be overweight.
	Have you ever seen a personal trainer who's...
	Fat?
	No, not to my mouth.
	I mean, a couple of people that might be slightly overweight.
	Oh yeah, and I had an aerobics teacher once who was kind of chunky, but she was super fit.
	But you could see that even.
	I mean, she wasn't fat like oozy fat, like wobbly fat.
	She was just actually big-boned, right?
	Denise says most people are fat.
	They say, I'm big-boned.
	It's like, no, dinosaurs are big-boned.
	You're fat.
	But she wasn't that way at all.
	You can sort of see that from a distance.
	Some people are just bigger.
	But if you want to support the free market, then put yourself as much as possible in the free market.
	I think you cannot really appreciate the free market from a distance.
	You cannot appreciate the free market from academia.
	You cannot appreciate the free market from books or videos or this show.
	You actually have to be in the free market.
	So when people say to me, you know, corporations are exploitive and so on and business owners are exploitive, I know for a fact that they've never been a business owner in the free market.
	Like I just – I know that for a fact because when you're a business owner – I mean, you know, nine times out of ten, nine days out of ten, you don't feel like the boss at all.
	You feel like out of control, like you're worried about things and, you know, customers might say no, people get upset with you, employees quit, they poach your employees to go elsewhere sometimes.
	I mean, you're just holding it together and you really don't feel like much of a boss at all.
	I mean, I love it myself.
	But...
	The idea that I'm sort of thumping my chest and everyone's going to just obey me because I have all this power is really ridiculous.
	And you know as well, as you improve the skills of your employees, you make them more marketable to other people.
	So as I would teach my employees how to do various things, their value in the marketplace would go up and then I would have that challenge of having to retain them.
	And also the idea that The free market is like a push economy.
	You just come up with stuff and you push it out and people have to buy it and so on.
	I mean it's ridiculous.
	Try cold calling to sell a printer or a cleaning service or something like that and just see how much power you think you have.
	So when people are out there in the free market, you gain an appreciation for what the market really is.
	It's life itself, what the market is.
	So people can, you know, yammer on to me all they want about various criticisms of the free market and various non-market quote solutions and so on.
	But all they're telling me is I've either not succeeded or never tried to provide what I want to the world and Without coercion.
	And because I've never succeeded in providing to the world without coercion in a way that is successful, then people say, because I've never done that, basically they're saying, well then, I have good ideas, but I don't want to Submit them to the test of voluntarism.
	I have good ideas, but I don't want to submit them to the test of the market.
	It's like a guy at a party saying, well, I have a great penis and I don't want to subject it to the whims of women saying no.
	And it's like, so basically you're just announcing your intention to rape, right?
	I mean, that's where we're at.
	And so just go into the free market.
	If you get a good, get a service, get an idea, get something.
	Go out and start from your basement, raise the money, hire, grow.
	Just go out and match your wits with others in the free market and attempt to please more people because that's really all the free market is about, attempt to please more people.
	And if you do that, you will gain an appreciation of the market But I don't think there's any other way to do it.
	I mean, I know that sounds a little bit like, well, my way is the best way.
	But I think if you really want to talk about moviemaking, go make a movie.
	Don't be a movie critic.
	I mean that's okay.
	There's nothing wrong with that.
	But if you really want to talk about how to make a movie, go make a movie.
	And keep making movies until you get one that is satisfying to you and hopefully satisfying to others.
	So I think that's the number one thing is go out into the market.
	Then you will gain a kind of credibility with yourself and with the facts that I don't think it can be replaced any other way.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	It does.
	The question that's connected to that, though, is that we see, I see, lots of regulations.
	And those regulations, to me, seem to be in opposition to the free market.
	And so sometimes, like, I'll tell you this, a real short story, but I published a book a couple years ago.
	It was the first book that I did.
	And, you know, it didn't do that well.
	I sold like a hundred copies.
	But in order to sell it, you know, I had to get, you know, licenses.
	I had to get, you know, all these little things that, to me, are detractors from the free market.
	And so once in a while, I kind of get this sense, it's like, man, the free market tends to be losing ground to this idea of regulation and the fact that we can't police ourselves.
	Sure.
	Sure, no, look, I understand that, but...
	That's an overhead that everyone has.
	That's an overhead that everyone has.
	Like I'm currently grinding my way through my year-end and the taxes and the income expenses and so on.
	And I mean that's useful stuff to do even in a free – like if it was a free society or whatever.
	And I sort of keep track of that on a daily basis, sort of measure things.
	You can't manage what you can't measure and my goal is to grow the show and to grow the income and do great things with the money and so on.
	And there's nothing like the quite special pile of shit with Satan's eyeball on top that taxes represent to an anarchist because it really is.
	I mean nobody likes taxes but it takes a special hatred to come out of someone.
	You have to be – to get that hatred, you really have to be an anarchist doing your taxes.
	But everyone has that overhead and my suggestion is you just – you have to hire – Or get involved with people who are willing to run interference with the interfering state.
	So you have to get the accountants.
	You have to get the legal team.
	Whatever.
	I mean I know this sounds a lot when you're just starting out.
	But your goal is to just get those people so to keep the state at bay.
	So that you can do your thing.
	Because it's an overhead that happens to everyone.
	And I mean people don't – they don't understand the degree to which – because they don't see what's missing.
	People aren't trained in economics thinking and so they don't see what's missing.
	Like I was watching – for doing a bit of research for a show today and they're talking about how hospitals just overcharge and they make so much money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
	And because people are – they think they know – Statism is just another religion which makes people think that they know something.
	So, I mean, if I came across some industry where people were making massive profits, I mean, what would my first impulse be?
	Shit!
	I'm going to do that!
	Right?
	I mean, wow, if you can charge $1,800 for a hotel room every day and if you can charge five times what they charge in Europe for hip surgery, damn, I'm in.
	Like, holy crap, what a money fest that would be, right?
	And then everybody bids each other down until it gets close to the bone.
	And, of course, the reality is – I mean, just try starting a hospital.
	I mean, just imagine – What you would have to do to try and start a hospital in the United States.
	And in some places, competition within a given geographical radius is actually illegal.
	Like you go to jail for opening a hospital.
	And the amount of regulatory burdens and legal burdens and exposure and my God, it's monstrous, right?
	I mean, if hospitals are so profitable, then why the hell aren't there more of them?
	Well, to ask the question is to answer it, right?
	Because there's not more hospitals because it's impossible and illegal to open new ones, right?
	It's not that hard to figure out, right?
	But people don't understand that.
	They don't understand that there's trillions of dollars in capital all throughout the world looking to make as much money as humanly possible.
	And so if...
	Americans spend so much on healthcare and American healthcare is so expensive.
	My God!
	I mean, why isn't everyone investing in opening American hospitals and healthcare and driving the price down?
	Because they can't.
	It's not complicated.
	It's not hard.
	It's just people don't really know how to think about it like that, right?
	I mean, if there's one really hot girl in the bar that absolutely no one is hitting on, Then, you know, something untoward may be hiding under the boxer briefs there that everybody knows about, but you don't, right?
	There's some reason that that's not happening.
	So I understand that there's regulation and this and that.
	But first of all, don't let bureaucratic assholes take your dream away, right?
	I mean, just don't.
	That's not how you want to.
	That's just giving up, right?
	Then we might as well just march into the Soviet gulag camps and be done with it, right?
	So, I mean, just do it.
	I mean, hire people you need to hire.
	I know it's an overhead.
	It's an annoying thing.
	I mean, the amount I have to pay my accountant is ridiculous, but it is necessary.
	And he's a very good accountant, but it's necessary for the system that we have because it's completely impossible to do your own taxes.
	I mean, once you go beyond a salaried worker, it's completely impossible.
	And of course, the risk is so horrendous.
	So, yeah, I would take that approach.
	Just get people to do it for you.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Well, the last, I guess, is the point, and I'd love to hear your comment on it, is that I'm 29.
	I'm an American.
	I live in Kentucky, Indiana, around that area.
	And so I'm going to be refusing to participate in the Affordable Health Care Act because it just, you know, I was too young.
	I was a high schooler when they passed the Patriot Act and I had no clue what was going on and I was afraid of myself.
	I bought into the idea of fearing other people, whether they're real or imagined.
	But with this healthcare that's mandatory, I'm just not going to participate.
	So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that stance or maybe blind spots I don't see or encouragement or whatever you see.
	Can you ask me more specifically what you're looking for feedback on?
	Whether, hmm, that's a good question.
	What am I looking for?
	I wasn't actually looking for anything specific.
	I was just stating that one thing that I don't hear from people my age is that they're going to resist.
	Well, not even resist.
	They're just not going to comply with a law that I believe is unconstitutional.
	And beyond that, more important to me, it's unreasonable.
	But see, not complying with the law...
	Is of no value unless there's a tipping point where people are going to recognize what you're doing as valuable, right?
	So for instance, in the 1960s, Muhammad Ali went to jail rather than be drafted, right?
	Right.
	And there was enough of an anti-war movement that people understood that.
	I mean, they may have hated him for it or thought he was an idiot or whatever, but they understood that there was significant resistance to the invasion and genocide going on in Vietnam, and he was standing...
	So he stood by his principles.
	And so there was even grudging admiration, I would assume, from his enemies because they were understood.
	Now, the Affordable...
	I mean, I hate even using the language.
	I hate it.
	I hate it.
	Because it's like if you have to refer to Nazi concentration camps as Jewish relaxation spas, I mean, come on.
	That's ridiculous.
	I mean, it's insane to even have to use their languages to step back into the matrix.
	But this law, I'll tell you something.
	This law, to me, is one of the final tests of the American people.
	If this doesn't piss people off significantly, like to the point where they're willing to begin to be skeptical of the state itself, if this doesn't, I don't know what will.
	Like if this doesn't do it, Obama and his administration have lied through their reptilian teeth.
	For years about cancellations of the policies, right?
	I mean, even within their own documents, they have said that 40 to 67% of privately bought insurance policies are going to be cancelled.
	While at the same time saying to everyone, you can keep your policy.
	That is astoundingly Evil.
	Because we're talking about healthcare here.
	We're not talking about a fucking tax.
	We're talking about the methodology of living or dying.
	We're talking about whether people get well or get dead.
	And I mean, it's such a massive transfer of power and wealth.
	It's such an intrusion.
	You know, they keep talking about the healthcare system is broken.
	The healthcare system is broken.
	No, the healthcare laws are broken.
	I mean, does anyone ever say the IT system in the United States is broken?
	The software distribution system in the United States is broken.
	Walmart's distribution system is...
	No, they never say anything like that because that's private shit, therefore it works.
	But whenever they start talking about a system, they're always talking about laws.
	They're always talking about violations of the non-aggression principle and property rights.
	So to me, if the American people don't have any kind of rebellion around this – and I don't mean anything like armed.
	I just mean if they don't – just start booing politicians and just start saying, you know what?
	This is completely fucked.
	I mean we were just – we were lied to about shit which keeps us alive.
	We were lied to about whether we get cancer treatments or not.
	We were lied to about whether we could keep our doctor or not.
	Switching doctors is a huge problem for people.
	You build up a relationship.
	You build up knowledge base.
	You build up trust.
	You build up information.
	You build up history.
	And they knew and lied to us.
	If that does not invalidate a law, fuck constitutionality.
	They lied.
	Lying invalidates contract.
	We all know that, right?
	Lying invalidates contract.
	And the fact is, though, there's some murmurings of it, but if the American people lie down and take this...
	Then I'm sorry that the good-hearted and courageous people are in the environment, but I don't know what will provoke them, and I think they're basically fit for the slavery they're going to end up with, and fit only for that.
	If that doesn't piss people off and make them speak out, they lie to you about whether you could keep your doctor and keep your healthcare insurance, knowingly, openly, brazenly.
	And then if anybody has the nerve to talk about the social contract with me, I'm just going to throw a drink in their face.
	Lying invalidates contract.
	Everybody knows that.
	And so Constitutional, Supreme Court, this thing, fucking lied.
	So, yeah, just say, look, it's, I mean, Obamacare, the law, it's like, it's not a law.
	It's not a contract.
	It's a fascist imposition, sure.
	But But even if you accept it at face value, like there's validity to what the government does and says and they put an official big white-bellied stamp on it or whatever, I fucking lied for years to everyone.
	Try that in the private sector.
	Try that in the private sector and you will go to jail.
	Do that in the public sector?
	Well.
	So, you know, I think just point out to people, it's like the whole thing's bullshit.
	I mean, they lied.
	I mean, they can enforce it on us.
	But let's not pretend that this is any...
	It's not a law.
	It's just force.
	You know, a rape is not a date, and this is nothing even...
	It's not a law.
	I mean, you lie, and it's invalidated.
	And this is pretty egregious, so...
	I hope that it will do something to wake people up.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.
	And that's, I guess, the...
	Not the rant that I was looking for, but, you know, the wisdom that I was looking for is that, yes, it validates my perspective.
	This is where I'm going to, you know, I'm going to put my feet right on the line and say, I'm going to play the game, and I'm going to play it by not cooperating with this bunch of lies, this just massing of lies.
	So, thank you.
	I appreciate that.
	And I hope that there are millions of more lies to me otherwise.
	Sorry, if...
	If the insurance companies tried this, where they promised people that their premiums would not go up and signed it into contracts and had millions of people sign up for contracts on a guarantee that their policies would never increase, the moment their policies increased, everybody would go insane and would recognize that they no longer had to pay, like the contract was invalidated.
	And this is a really obvious one that's going to hit a lot of people.
	And the other thing, too, What sick power does this give to the employers in what's left of the free market?
	Because the moment you change your employer, then you have to renegotiate your healthcare contract, which means that you're going to get dumped from your existing contract and you might get something new with much higher premiums.
	So basically employers now...
	They don't have to treat their workers as well because the workers are tied to the job.
	I mean this is one of the big problems with healthcare, right?
	I mean we all know the history as to why it ended up being paid for by the employer.
	It's because in the Second World War, the government wouldn't let companies give raises or incentives to hire people and so they said, okay, well, we'll just pay your healthcare because that was a big cost for people and so on, right?
	And so it ended up all being structured that way.
	It's one of the big drivers of American healthcare costs is the fact that people don't negotiate.
	But the insurance companies, quote, negotiate and they don't have enough – none of them have enough power to really put heavy-duty negotiation in.
	And, of course, Medicare and Medicaid, they're forbidden to negotiate for prescription drugs.
	I think they're one of the biggest, if not the biggest purchaser.
	There are prescription drugs in the American market.
	They're not allowed to negotiate.
	Why?
	Because pharmaceutical companies are one of the major arms running the government.
	So now if you go from your workers like your employer's healthcare coverage and you quit or you want to go and be an entrepreneur, well, you're really going to roll the dice when it comes to your own healthcare, right?
	That's terrible.
	And then, of course, what's going to happen is people are going to say, well, you know, capitalists just exploit workers because there's an imbalance of power.
	It's like, well, that's one of the things that makes it that way.
	Anyway, I think we may have lost him.
	Mike, will we move on to the next call?
	No, I'm there.
	Oh, you are?
	Okay.
	Well, I appreciate your enthusiasm for freedom.
	And, you know, it's okay to have contempt for the people marching you off to slavery, right?
	It's okay to get angry at them.
	No, it is.
	It's okay to get angry at them.
	I mean, this shit has been going on for a long time now.
	And the evidence is all in.
	The evidence is all in.
	There's no question anymore.
	I mean, in the 1960s, they said we were going to eradicate poverty.
	How's that going?
	We're going to eradicate ignorance.
	How's that going?
	We're going to eradicate drug use.
	How's that going?
	I mean, remember, America is making the world safe for democracy, right?
	And the two biggest transitions to a free market occurred in China and India, where America has almost zero presence.
	They got military bases all over the place, and everywhere they touched, not become democratic.
	How's Saudi Arabia doing?
	How's Africa doing with all that foreign aid?
	The two countries that escaped tyranny to a significant degree are the countries that don't get much, if any, foreign aid and has no US presence.
	So does anyone believe that America is now or has ever been fundamentally interested in the spread of democracy?
	Christ, they're not even fundamentally interested in spreading democracy at home, let alone Yemen, for God's sakes.
	Anyway.
	So I appreciate your enthusiasm for it.
	And give people back the respect of their choice.
	The people who voted for Obama and they're upset about it.
	It's like, guess what?
	Actions have consequences.
	Her government has come with a warning label called the Constitution.
	Government comes with a big giant warning label called the Constitution.
	I don't need a constitution with my wife because she's really nice.
	She's not going to prey on me and sell off my kidneys while I sleep and all that.
	So I don't need a constitution with my wife.
	I don't need a constitution with my listeners.
	Mike and I do business as I like to do business on a handshake.
	Governments like cigarettes have come with a giant warning label for about a thousand years, sort of count Magna Carta and onwards, and very specifically in the American example for 300 odd years.
	I mean everybody learns about the Constitution, everyone learns what it's for, to restrain the power of the state.
	Why?
	The state is really fucking dangerous.
	Right?
	That's what George Washington said.
	Right.
	If on the smoker's cigarette box is a giant 3D holographic pop-up figure of somebody coughing his last bits of lung out as he dies by the side of the road at the age of 50, and then somebody says, wait a minute, I've been smoking for 30 years.
	I appear to be somewhat short of breath.
	Ah!
	I want everyone to have sympathy for me.
	No.
	We all learned as kids, governments come with a giant label, a giant warning label.
	And everybody pretends to ignore that warning label and then cries shock, foul, and horror when that warning turns out to be true.
	So no, I don't really have a lot of sympathy For a smoker, I have sympathy for the smoker getting sick, for sure.
	But I don't have sympathy for a smoker who says, I had no idea.
	When we were taught from kids onwards that smoking is really dangerous, the warning labels are all over the place.
	It's like the same thing I feel about people who try to use a bad childhood as an excuse for a dysfunctional adulthood.
	Come on.
	This has been known for centuries, how a bad childhood works.
	Leads to a bad adulthood unless you significantly intervene.
	That's not brain surgery, for heaven's sakes.
	Nobody's asking you to decipher the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics without the Rosetta Stone.
	We all know this.
	So...
	I do – I have great sympathy for you.
	I'm probably going through a bit of an impatient phase at the moment, so be patient with me.
	It may pass.
	It may not.
	But if the American people don't react with any kind of visceral horror to this, then they've been broken on the wheel at least a generation, and there really is – Little to no hope of turning things around because this is such a visceral thing.
	And this is healthcare.
	This is stuff that is incredibly important to people.
	And if it doesn't make them skeptical and see the warning labels that they've been told about since about the age of five or so, hey, what's July 4th?
	It's government warning label day.
	Come on!
	Anyway...
	So I appreciate your comments.
	Let me know how it goes, of course.
	And yeah, definitely get into the free market and you'll be a very, I think, powerful force having been in a way that's hard to see before you do.
	Thank you so much.
	Let's move on to the next caller.
	Thanks, Steph.
	All right, Vedran, you're up today.
	Hello, Steph.
	Hello.
	Can you hear me?
	Well, you don't have a phone.
	It's like you have the exact voice of my conscience.
	Good evening.
	How are you doing?
	Good.
	So I have a question.
	It's related to parenting.
	Go for it.
	And I'm a father of a nine-month-old child.
	And I'm curious about your thoughts on some of the obvious and maybe more on the not-so-obvious ways that parents keep their kids small or squash their abilities.
	I can tell you a few obvious ways that I think I've experienced myself if...
	If that's of use to you in answering my question.
	So some of the obvious ways that I've experienced growing up was my parents didn't have curiosity as there was no two-way communication.
	I also heard mixed messages like, you know, be what you want, do what you want.
	But then when I did something, quote-unquote, that they didn't like, there was negative criticisms.
	Another one that I experienced was, you know, my parents put me in school and they thought the school would teach you everything that you need to know, so there wasn't any further kind of curiosity as far as character development.
	So those are some of the obvious ways that I've experienced myself, but I was just curious about, since I have a nine-month-old, Some of the ways, not so obvious ways that parents, I guess, don't grow their kids to their capabilities.
	Well, that's a great question, and certainly your child is very lucky to have a father who's asking such questions, so my eternal compliments to you on that score.
	And those are very important questions.
	To allow your child to confidently lead you past the foggy walls of your own historical errors is an essential part of parenting.
	There is so much that my daughter knows about the world at the age of four that I had to learn painfully and slowly at the age of forty that she's like a native speaker of philosophy and I am someone Who has learned it in secret while being flogged for speaking it in public.
	So she is a native born speaker of truth and virtue and reason and evidence and I am somebody who has to learn it slowly and painfully against significant opposition and social ostracism and all kinds of stuff, right?
	So she speaks it better than I do.
	She speaks it much better than I do.
	So allowing your child to instruct you, not necessarily to sit down with a whiteboard or anything like that, but just to instruct you on how to be is pretty essential.
	And if you're not doing that, then you're not parenting well.
	Because all parents must raise children with clearer thinking than they themselves had.
	I assume that this will be the case should my daughter ever become a mother herself, that this will be the case with her as well.
	All parents must raise their children with better and clearer thinking than they themselves had.
	That is the fundamental progress of the species.
	Now, if you raise a child to think better than you were able to as a child or were permitted to as a child, then that child is going to be, guess what, a better thinker than you are.
	And so with that better thinking comes challenges, comes opposition.
	I mean, my daughter has no fear of me whatsoever and is perfectly willing to contradict me when she thinks that I'm making a mistake or whatever.
	And occasionally, most times I find that really delightful, occasionally it's hard.
	If it's something I haven't thought about or something I'm sensitive about or something like that, occasionally it can be hard.
	And there's a tiny part of me that yearns for the it's never too late to rule by fear approach and so on, which I'm not really tempted to do it.
	But there is that part of me that's like, well, I guess old school would have some particular advantages right about now, right?
	So that's natural.
	And if you're not feeling that as a parent, it means that you're still inhibiting your child's thinking and self-expression.
	So the methodology for that would be, I guess, for you to get over it, not over it, but to get through it.
	Is it just curiosity through communication?
	Well, no.
	I don't want to say, well, as a child, I would have been hit for saying that.
	I don't want to say that to her at all.
	Any more than I want to show her snuff films.
	The snuff film called My Own Childhood is not something...
	That I want to inflict upon her.
	So that's my business to deal with.
	It's my business to deal with.
	And I mean, I'm pretty practiced at dealing with these kinds of things now, so it's pretty easy to recognize that in myself and say, well, you know, if I need to deal with it later, but this is where it's coming from and so on, right?
	That's not overly complicated to deal with on the fly.
	So I think that's really, really important.
	Now, of course, another way, I mean, you want to make your child not too small, but you also don't want to make your child too big, right?
	This one is too hot.
	This one is too cold.
	This one is just right.
	There is an Aristotelian mean, right?
	So you don't want to grind down your child, of course, but you also don't want to surrender everything to your child.
	That's going to make them kind of narcissistic, I would assume, right?
	Like, oh, you want to do this?
	Okay, let's do this, right?
	To avoid conflict with your child is...
	To mean that one of you has to be small.
	If you avoid conflict with someone, it means that one of you has to be small.
	So if I have a conflict with my daughter and I avoid it and self-erase, then I have to become small.
	And if I then impose upon her, then she has to become small.
	But you want to both be in the conversation and both be of a reasonable size.
	So my daughter is a constant squirmer and I find it unsettling when we're sort of sitting at the table and she's squirming all over her chair, reaching across the table and stuff like that.
	It drives me a little batty.
	Because I find it hard to relax just waiting for that table to skid out and her to faceplant into the table or something like that.
	And so for like two years, we've been reminding her to sit in her chair.
	And I know she's four, so she's going to be squirmy and all that, but...
	We had a pretty solid conversation about it yesterday but I really did express how distracting and frustrating it is for me.
	I don't mind if she sits around on the chair but just don't slide off the chair and don't be reaching across the table and stuff like that.
	I mean working with her on impulse control because she's highly energetic and she's impulse driven.
	It's partly because she's four but it's also partly who she is.
	Working with her on impulse control It's a significant challenge and we had a conflict about it.
	And I don't want to say, well, it's okay.
	It's fine.
	I'll just keep reminding you because I'm not satisfied with that anymore.
	I think she's old enough now to remember that it's sort of helpful to sit in her chair, right?
	So I don't want to just erase my needs to have a relaxing dinner without waiting for her to flip off the chair, which she's done once or twice, fortunately without injury, but you never know, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	So I don't want to self-erase, but at the same time, I don't want to say, the rule is you to sit in your chair.
	No, no, to sit.
	The rule is you sit in your chair.
	No ifs, ands, or buts.
	No talk back.
	You sit in your chair.
	And if you can't sit on the chair, then you'll do it Japanese-style and eat off the floor.
	Because that's erasing her.
	So we have to negotiate.
	Her need is to squirm.
	My need is to have a more relaxing dinner.
	So we negotiate, and we negotiate, and we talk about it, and we talk about it.
	And I explain it to her.
	Is this something you talk about after?
	No, during.
	Yeah, because I got frustrated.
	I told her like five times.
	Please, Isabella, you're squirming around.
	It's unsettling to me.
	I'm concerned you're going to fall.
	And it's okay for me to get frustrated with her.
	And it's okay for her to get frustrated with me.
	It's part of being in a relationship, right?
	But I won't self-erase and I won't erase her.
	We Negotiate.
	She's like, well, just don't look at me squirming.
	It's like, it's not looking at you squirming that's the problem.
	It's that, remember the time that you fell and remember that time that you fell and all that, right?
	And we've got forks and knives and glasses on the table and this is just not safe.
	We sit in the chair.
	And I'm not saying sit like a strapped in prison or anything like that.
	Fine, shift around and all that, but Are you talking about at a restaurant or at home, so to speak?
	No, at home.
	A restaurant or home, either way.
	And so, I mean, we've talked about it probably for 20 minutes, and we came to a reasonable conclusion, which is I will try to remind her less, and she will really try to remember.
	And to her credit, today, with no prompting from me, she's like, I'm going to sit.
	I'm really going to try and sit nicely kind of thing or whatever, right?
	I didn't remind her about it all day.
	I probably will need to because she's four and all that but it works really well.
	So you both have to be present.
	Neither one of you ends up small.
	I think that's one of the things I think that happens sometimes with parents who've been raised harshly is they can maybe go to the other extreme and don't have needs around the children and that's not healthy either because I need to teach her about reality.
	That's my job.
	It's one of my jobs and teaching her about reality It means teaching her that I have needs because I do have needs, and if I pretend that I don't, I'm not teaching her about reality, about the truth.
	Now, the fact that I have needs in no way, shape, or form means that she has to conform to them, but I won't lie to her.
	By omission or commission.
	And so if I have something that's really bothering me about her, then I will tell her.
	It doesn't mean she has to change or obey or anything like that.
	But I need to teach her about reality.
	The reality is other people have needs.
	Those needs conflict with your needs, and you have to find a way to make a win-win out of it.
	Was there a specific time when you transitioned into implementing your needs or expressing your needs?
	Yeah, it was about – it was around two, two and a half months.
	I mean, before that, I mean, you don't sort of say, look, it's 3 o'clock in the morning.
	It's quite inconvenient for me if you want some milk, so I'm afraid we're going to – I mean, you just give the babies everything that the babies need, right?
	Of course, you know that.
	You're nine-month-old, right?
	Yeah.
	But then when she gets older, right?
	I mean, we played.
	I wanted to go outside today.
	It was a beautiful, sunny day.
	She wanted to stay inside, so we stayed inside for a couple of hours.
	And then I said, well, I'd really like to go outside.
	No, I want to stay inside.
	It's like, well, we have been staying inside.
	I'd like to go outside.
	And I can't leave you in here alone because you're at four.
	So we'll try it.
	Just give it a try.
	Give it a try.
	Come out for like 20 minutes.
	We'll look for caterpillars and all that, right?
	So we did.
	And then, of course, what happened?
	She didn't want to go back in.
	And I had to remind her.
	I said, you didn't want to come out, right?
	And she said, no, I didn't.
	And I said, well, who suggested coming out?
	You did.
	So who was right?
	You were, Daddy.
	It's lots of fun.
	I said, yes.
	And I did my little victory dance.
	And then when she's right, and she's right about something too, some stuff too, right?
	I don't need a jacket.
	Okay, let's try it without a jacket.
	Hey, look, I'm warm enough.
	Who was right?
	You were, Isabella.
	You didn't need a jacket.
	Good job.
	Now do your victory dance.
	So it is really around just being as real and honest with your children as you can possibly be, not erasing them, not erasing you, and teaching them How to negotiate needs.
	Negotiating needs...
	I mean, we need to negotiate when needs don't coincide, right?
	And needs don't coincide quite a bit.
	And so teaching them how to negotiate non-coincidental needs is really essential to their life's success.
	So those would be my suggestions if they help.
	Yeah, that was very helpful.
	I appreciate that very much.
	How's he sleeping?
	Or she?
	He's sleeping amazingly.
	We almost feel like we hit the lottery or something.
	Do you feel like the urge to check his breath at night?
	It's too much sleeping.
	Yeah, sometimes.
	But it's been amazing.
	I want to thank you very much for introducing me to Peaceful Parenting.
	You have really put a seed in there where I can spread it to others clearly.
	I'm very glad.
	Thank you.
	And thank you so much for taking the chance.
	I know it feels a little bit like stepping off a cliff and hoping you're going to be caught by a significant updraft, but I really appreciate you doing that, and thank you so much.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	All right, Kyle.
	You're up next.
	Kyle, go ahead.
	Hello.
	I can.
	Hey.
	Awesome.
	I guess, yeah, I want to say thank you for things you've been doing.
	I think it's quite excellent.
	I'm currently in the process of looking for a therapist, and I was wondering if maybe I could get some ideas for you as far as, like, what are some of the primary questions you'd want to ask a therapist to make sure you're actually getting a good one?
	I know you said it took you a while to find a good one, so...
	Yeah, I mean, it's a great question.
	I've got a fairly in-depth podcast about it, which I'm going to refer you to if somebody can poke it in the chat room.
	Yeah, because I've got How to Find a Great Therapist, at least from my perspective, so I don't want to redo that because it was a fairly lengthy topic, so I'll refer you.
	You can find that on the website.
	What are you going to see a therapist about in particular?
	Well, and that's kind of the second thing I want to talk about.
	You know, I mean...
	You know, you can't ever say, you know, I had a good childhood, but, like, I guess my parents are very religious, especially my mom, and I've been struggling dealing with that, being that I'm not religious, and I want to kind of figure out how I want to deal with my parents.
	I've moved out since then, and I've told them how I felt about religion and stuff, but, you know, You get the normal same sort of response from my parents, so...
	And what are their responses?
	Okay, yeah, so...
	When I told my mom, she kind of...
	She kind of like shelled up.
	She kind of like didn't know what to say.
	She kind of just kind of repeated like what she believed and why she believed it and told me, you know, that...
	I need to just keep reading the Bible or things like that.
	I explained to her why I had problems with all that.
	I kind of explained how I didn't think it was justified for her to tell me about hell at such a young age.
	I explained to her that I had nightmares about going to hell and stuff.
	And her response to that was, well, why didn't you tell me?
	And I didn't know how to answer that one, but yeah.
	Why didn't you tell me?
	Are you kidding me?
	Yeah.
	I mean, does that seem quite crazed to you?
	It seems quite crazed to me.
	I can sort of tell you why, but I mean, are we on the same page as far as that goes?
	It doesn't mean I'm right.
	I'm just telling you.
	No, I mean, I think I know where you're coming from.
	It's just...
	I guess it's hard for me to process.
	I'm still trying to think about it myself.
	Well, first of all, it puts the onus on the relationship with you and your mother on you when you were how old?
	Five, six, seven?
	Yeah, this is probably, what, second grade?
	Yeah, something like that.
	So seven or eight years old.
	Okay.
	And is that when you first heard about hell?
	I'm pretty sure I heard about it before, but that's specifically – I had a very vivid dream, and that's – I mean that's – I think it's affected me.
	Well, it has affected me.
	Yeah, I bet it has.
	Okay, so let me run you through a few ways, I think accurate ways, of looking at what your mom said.
	There's so much in what people say to us.
	People say, oh, Steph, you spend a lot of time analyzing dreams.
	It's like, well, yeah, but I could do literally a five-part series show on what your mom said to you.
	There's so much embedded.
	I'm telling you, that is a keystone to the relationship.
	I won't do a five-part show, but do you mind if I just riff on what your mom said for a minute or two or three or four?
	No, I definitely want this because I need this.
	That's why I'm here.
	Alright.
	So...
	What your mom is saying...
	What was your name again?
	Sorry.
	Kyle.
	Kyle, sorry.
	So your mom is saying, Kyle, I told you that you would burn in hell forever if you disobeyed Jesus or God.
	Yeah.
	That you would be tortured by demons, that your skin would burn but never break...
	That your insides would be your outsides and demons would be taking big giant lava peas on you from a great height or whatever.
	She'd be saying all these things, right?
	I'd be saying, and then she would say, unless you told me that that was upsetting to you, I'm going to make the claim that I had zero idea that that was upsetting to you.
	- Yeah, no, I-- - Unless you told me that hell was scary for you as a child, then there's no possible way for me to know, right?
	Listen, if you say, Steph, here I am lounging on a bearskin rug with a tool belt wearing nothing but a smile, right?
	I'd have said, well, I didn't know that you were doing that.
	Let me join you, right?
	But that's something I couldn't know without you telling me, right?
	Yeah.
	Right?
	But if you take a child to the movie Night of the Living Dead, and then you say, I have zero idea that this is upsetting to my child unless my child tells me, then you are emotionally insane, if that's true.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	If it's genuinely true.
	Now, hell is designed to be terrifying, right?
	I mean the whole story is designed to be the worst possible thing that you could conceivably imagine times a billion that goes on for eternity, right?
	Yeah.
	No, I would – yeah.
	So there's nothing worse than hell.
	And the imaginations, the fertile imaginations of generations of sadists going back 5,000 years have developed the idea of hell to be the worst and most terrifying and most god-awful conceivable place that goes on forever, right?
	Yeah.
	If you tell your child that the most terrifying and awful place is not just a story but is real and is awaiting him if he puts one foot wrong, and then you later say, I had no idea that was upsetting to you, then you're insane, at least in that area.
	I'm not saying your mom is insane like crazy as a whole, but in that area, that is not believable.
	You cannot tell a child a frightening story and then say you had no idea that the child was frightened, particularly if the story is designed to frighten the child, right?
	Yeah.
	No, and I think what a lot of times I guess religious people do will make the excuse, well, but if you believe in Jesus, you don't have to be afraid of that.
	And I don't even – it's so ridiculous.
	Well, no, because that's not the truth.
	Yeah.
	That's not the truth.
	The sum total of the Bible is not believe in Jesus.
	There's lots of rules.
	There's temptation.
	There's the devil tempting you.
	There's the pleasures of the flesh.
	There's dancing.
	There's homosexuality.
	All these things are tempting you.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	And God is watching and God is judging.
	And there is no safety.
	Because the rules also change, right?
	Pope changes the rules.
	Priests change the rules.
	Homosexuality is a sin.
	Now it's not so much a sin.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it seems like it's...
	Atheists couldn't get into heaven.
	Now atheists can get into heaven, maybe, you know, if they know the right people, slip them 20 bucks.
	So the rule is constantly changing, and so, no, and there's no guarantee, right?
	And of course, if it were true that mere belief in Jesus was enough, then the story of hell, for children in particular, would not be required.
	Does that make sense?
	I mean, I can see where...
	I guess the story of hell compels people to believe in Jesus, but...
	No, no.
	I'm not being very clear with what I'm saying.
	Let me try it again.
	If mere belief in Jesus was enough, then you wouldn't need the threat of hell.
	So if it was no problem to believe in Jesus, and believing in Jesus kept you safe from hell, you wouldn't even need the story of hell, right?
	Yeah.
	You need the story of hell because it's hard to get into heaven because kids don't want to do it because kids don't believe in it because kids are skeptical because kids are disobedient because kids are rebellious because kids are impulsive, right?
	You need the story of hell because there's a danger of hell which means that you don't always believe in Jesus and you can't always do the right thing and therefore you need not just the carrot but the stick, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And certainly, since children cannot – I guess around the age of reason, around the age of seven or eight, then you can start to become morally responsible and so on.
	Anyway, so let me explain a little more about what your mom said.
	Again, I apologize because you probably know this, but just for others, right?
	Your mom also said, if she said, Why didn't you tell me?
	So she puts the onus of communicating complex feelings on you retroactively.
	Now, if you had told her that you're frightened of hell at the time, what would she have said?
	Probably would have tried to pray with me or tell me to read my Bible, something like that.
	Well, yes, but she would have said, of course you're scared of hell.
	We all are.
	That's why we go to church.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	So if you had told her that you were scared, she would basically have said, good.
	Like if my child says, Dad, I'm really scared of playing on the highway, what would I say?
	You'd probably say, well, yeah, it's dangerous, so...
	Yeah, good.
	Don't fight that feeling.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Don't overcome that feeling, right?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I'm scared of jumping off the roof.
	Good!
	Good!
	Don't go up on the roof then.
	And don't jump.
	And if you're up there, I'll get a ladder, right?
	Don't fight that fear.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	So if you said to your mom, Mom, I'm scared of hell, she basically would have said, well, good!
	That's what it's for.
	It is scary.
	That's why we do X, Y, and Z, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So if she says she has no idea – like if it's true that she says she has no idea that hell was scary, then she doesn't understand hell herself, which is not possibly the case, right?
	Yeah.
	I almost wonder if the reason she said that is because she wanted me – No, no.
	We'll get there.
	No, no.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	We'll get – I've still got more to do on this.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Go ahead.
	It's like – this is the exact analogy.
	Your father beats you with a two-by-four.
	Yeah.
	And he beats you because he wants you to change your behavior.
	He's angry at you.
	You did something wrong.
	You backtalked.
	You disrespected your uncle.
	You didn't take out the garbage.
	He beats you with a two-by-four until you're black and blue in the legs and the ass, right?
	And the lower back.
	And years later, you go to your dad and you say, Dad, I really hated that.
	And he says, I had no idea.
	Why didn't you tell me?
	Do you get how insane that is?
	Yeah, no.
	Yeah, it's...
	Man.
	It's further sadism, you understand.
	Because now, you're like, oh, so it was my fault.
	Because I wasn't telling this person, right?
	Yeah, it's like I wasn't being honest with you.
	Yeah, it's like they're twisting a knife in an old wound.
	I had no idea that beating you with a 2x4 was unpleasant for you.
	I wish you'd told me.
	It's like, do you remember me crying?
	Do you remember me like, what?
	What do you mean you didn't know?
	If you genuinely didn't know, then you're a complete sociopath.
	And even a sociopath would know that hell is a scary place, right?
	So I don't even know.
	Like, aliens scooped out your brains and replaced them with cheese sauce or something.
	Like, I don't even know what to say to somebody who says they had no idea whatsoever that hell was scary for a child.
	That's a lie.
	And so the question is, why is she saying it?
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Why do you think she's saying it?
	Now we get to motives, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, it's definitely – I guess she's wanting to put it – she's wanting to expose me as being unhonest with her when I was younger, and that's my fault, and that's why you're having all these difficulties now?
	No, that's – sorry, that's not the motive.
	That's the methodology.
	Yeah.
	Right, so the motive is I want to rob the bank.
	The methodology is I'll tunnel through the wall, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, okay, she doesn't want to be responsible for putting me in the – for me having these nightmares and being in the church institution, I guess.
	Well, okay, so obviously she doesn't want to be responsible, but that's like saying I want to rob the bank because I don't want to work.
	It's sort of taken for granted, right?
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah.
	So I'm sorry to be annoying, but...
	Yeah, no.
	It's fine.
	That's why I'm here.
	Right.
	Okay, so...
	Why is she saying that?
	So we're going with motive, right?
	Yeah.
	I guess she doesn't...
	I guess why don't you – hang on.
	Here's Empathy 101.
	And I'm not saying you don't have it, right?
	But let's just take it for a spin.
	So I'll be you, I'll be Kyle, and you be your mom.
	All right?
	Yeah.
	I mean she doesn't want to deal with the fact that – No, no, no.
	I'll actually be you and you actually be your mom.
	Let's do a little role play, OK? OK. OK. OK. So you just dropped this completely jaw-dropping statement on me.
	I'm like, why the coyote under an Acme anvil here?
	So I will then say, Mom, so you just said, Mom, that you wish I had told you that I was upset about you telling me about hell, right?
	Yeah.
	Did you, at the time, think that it might be scary for me?
	It's tough, right?
	No, I just break out of the rope.
	It's tough.
	She doesn't want to answer either way, right?
	It's important.
	What would she say?
	I can tell you what I think she'd say.
	I feel like she'd say, well, yeah, it's scary, but if you believe in Jesus, you don't have to be afraid of that.
	I feel like she'd do some sort of crazy runaround like that.
	But then I would say, did I believe in Jesus at the time?
	Well, she would—I don't know how she would twist it, but she'd be under the—she'd be saying that she was under the impression I believed, or somehow worded that way, that she thought I believed in Jesus at the time, which, I mean, I guess I— So then I would ask, did you not know whether I believed in Jesus or not at the time?
	Yeah.
	And she'd say, well, I had my doubts.
	And then I would say to her, why didn't you ask me?
	Okay.
	Right?
	She's the adult, right?
	So if I don't know whether my daughter knows something that's important for her to know, I'll ask her if she knows it, right?
	Yeah.
	Now, she would probably say something like, you know, as a parent, I'm...
	More concerned about your soul than your body because your body is temporary and your soul is eternal.
	And my job as a parent is to shepherd you to heaven and hell is the consequences of not believing.
	And therefore, although it may have been upsetting to you, I had to tell you so that you wouldn't do things that were wrong and end up in hell.
	I don't know how sophisticated she is in terms of her theology, but it would be something like that.
	Like grabbing a guy about to walk into traffic, right?
	He's looking up.
	He's about to walk into traffic.
	You tackle him and you say, well, I tackled you so you wouldn't walk into traffic.
	I'm sorry.
	I gave you a bruise in your hip, but it's better than get creamed by a bus, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And so she would say that the fear that you felt as a child was necessary to save you from hell, right?
	Which is apparent it's my job that you don't go there, right?
	Yeah.
	Right.
	But she's probably going to be – I'm sorry.
	Is she more of like a secular Christian or is she – does she believe that it's somewhat metaphorical or is she like a literalist, like a fundamentalist?
	I would put her more in the category of fundamentalist.
	She's definitely really committed to – but it's – I always try to point this out.
	I always point this out.
	It's always her interpretation, of course.
	So it's like – it's definitely – especially when I was a little kid, it wasn't figurative.
	No, but – and this is the funny thing about fundamentalist is that fundamentalist is entirely the wrong word.
	You can't be a fundamentalist about something for which there are no fundamentals.
	Yeah.
	That's like me saying I'm a literalist when it comes to interpreting a kaleidoscope.
	That doesn't mean anything, right?
	Yeah.
	I am an absolutist when it comes to how you carve a fog bank.
	There is nothing fundamental about religion.
	It's a complete cherry-picking clusterfrag of exaggerating all your natural impulses to the status of eternal goods.
	The God we worship is our unconscious, of course, and our unconscious is full of light and dark, just like the Bible.
	And so there's nothing fundamental.
	What is the fundamentals of physics?
	What is the fundamentals of math?
	Well, the fundamentals of math and physics are objective and clear and easy to understand.
	Fundamentalism is entirely the wrong word because there is nothing, nothing fundamental about religion in any way, shape, or form.
	It is whatever you want it to be.
	You will find reflected in some part of the Bible.
	The Bible has adapted itself to include all possible personality traits.
	You want to do a hippie-eyed Jesus?
	Yeah, there he is.
	Go smoke some ganja and weave your underwear out of hemp.
	Oh, you're an Old Testament Nazi aggressor.
	Oh, we can find that guy for you.
	Absolutely.
	Thunderbolts and lightning hurling down.
	His son's like Zeus from a thunderbolt on a cloud.
	Yeah, we'll find that guy.
	Oh, you're kind of like a gentle, shy, retiring person.
	Oh, we have Dewey-Eyed Lamb Jesus as well.
	Are you warlike?
	Yeah, we got that guy too.
	Anything you want.
	Yeah.
	Anything you want, you'll get there.
	It's a complete hall of mirrors.
	And so there's absolutely nothing fundamental about religion.
	So even the word fundamentalist has been co-opted by religion as if there is anything fundamental to this nonsense.
	Okay.
	So she was a fundamentalist when you were younger.
	Is she still a fundamentalist?
	Yeah, I mean, I guess she's Presbyterian.
	I don't know, like...
	Sorry to interrupt.
	Somebody just wrote in the chat room.
	Sorry to interrupt you.
	Somebody just wrote in the chat room.
	The word ass appears 87 times in the Bible.
	It's true, but 86 of them are in the book of Kardashian.
	But anyway, go ahead.
	Yeah, I mean there is definitely a solid belief in that you had to accept Jesus in your life in order to go to heaven.
	I think that was made pretty clear.
	I don't know.
	It's kind of – I guess religion is confusing, so sometimes it's hard to kind of pin down some of the beliefs I guess.
	Sure.
	Sure, okay.
	So let me sort of give you the lowdown on this part, right?
	So if she's still a fundamentalist, then if she genuinely believes that she was saving you from eternal damnation, then hell – then talking to you about hell is theologically justified.
	Yeah.
	Oh, no, no, yeah.
	You hit the age of reason, and if you get hit by a bus, you go to hell, and she can't let that happen to you, right?
	Yeah, so yeah, like one of the things I like to do, or I don't want to say I like to do it, but one of the things I do, I have done with her is I said, look, I currently don't believe in Jesus.
	Does that mean I'm going to go to hell?
	I mean, what's your beliefs in that?
	And I think, yeah, she's committed to say if— Wait, wait, wait.
	What did she say?
	Well, her response was, if you don't believe in Jesus, yes, you won't go to hell.
	I mean, you won't go to heaven.
	You will go to hell, then.
	Is that what she means, right?
	Yeah, you will go to hell, yeah.
	That was actually one of the last things she said to me before.
	I was just like, you know what?
	I'm out of here.
	Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't know how to speak with people who are that vicious and deluded.
	And I hate to apply this label to any human being, and I don't know your mom or anything like that.
	Maybe she bakes lots of nice cookies for sick people.
	I don't know.
	But if it is – if her perspective is that she genuinely believes that her God will torture you for eternity unless you give his priest money and show up in church and say words and believe stuff, that is psychotic, right?
	Basically, if I were to do in a debate that says you have to accept anarcho-capitalism, Otherwise, my invisible demon friends will rend your eyeballs for eternity.
	I mean, that would be insane, right?
	Yeah.
	No, it would be.
	It's hard to grasp because, you know, like, it seems like everywhere else, you know, it's like, you know, there's this attempt to, I mean, it seems like, tries to be nice, but it's like, You can't get over that one thing.
	Well, it's a pretty big thing.
	Look, the guys who come around from the mafia to say, send us a thousand bucks a month because you've got a lovely little toy store here.
	Be a shame if something happened to it, but we'll keep you safe.
	They may be very gentle.
	They may be very soft-spoken, right?
	Yeah.
	Obama doesn't need to yell because he's got an army, right?
	Yeah.
	So...
	The hell itself, I should probably do a show on this, but hell itself fundamentally is a manifestation of the petulant rage of the reality that there's no God.
	So you really want people to believe something, but they don't and there's no evidence for it.
	And in fact, every piece of evidence contradicts it.
	And so hell is a manifestation of a rage against the reality that steadfastly and stubbornly refuses to produce a god.
	That is a manifestation of what hell is.
	It's a rage against reality that produces no god and prayers that don't get answered and children who sicken and die even to devout parents or children who get brain infections and lose half their brain and still no god.
	And people who cry out for salvation on battlefields and still know God.
	And so there's this petulant rage.
	To me, that's what hell is.
	It's just a projection of the inner hell of attempting to believe in something that isn't there, all alone in the dark, without even your imagination.
	Because religion is the opposite of imagination.
	In the same way that a movie is the opposite of an imagination, right?
	Because when you're watching a movie, you're not picturing something else, right?
	Yeah.
	So, I mean, look, if she's willing to say that there's some allegorical aspects to it, that hell is the internal state of mind of people alienated from God rather than it's a physical place that they send seven-year-old children to for disobedience, if she's willing to accept that there's some allegory involved, then yes, there is some possibility for conversation.
	But if it's a genuinely real place, right?
	Yeah.
	Well, I don't really know what to say.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, and...
	It was weird, because...
	Sorry, the reason I say that, I apologize for interrupting, just as you were about to say something.
	And again, I'm sure you get this, but just for other people who are new to the conversation, the reason that you can have a conversation about metaphor...
	It's that if your mom says, well, hell is a, you know, this is the state of mind of people separated from God, then you can say, well, as a child, that's not how you told me.
	How you told me was the real place, right?
	Yeah, no.
	Not like you'll be unhappy if you don't go to church, because I can test that.
	I don't go to church, I go frog hunting and see if I'm happy or not, right?
	Yay!
	Right, so if she's willing to say it's allegory, then you can say, well, that's not how I explained it to me, and then she hopefully will say, you know what, that's true, that's really not...
	A good way to explain it to kids, right?
	And then she can apologize or whatever it is, right?
	I don't know whether restitution is possible.
	That's not my call.
	But if she is like, well, it's a genuinely real place and you are going to go there unless you obey what?
	So what the hell are you supposed to obey?
	Are you supposed to have an eye for an eye or are you supposed to turn the other cheek?
	Are you supposed to judge not lest ye be judged or are you supposed to be one of the policemen or in the law courts, none of whom we believe are excommunicated?
	I don't believe there's a single judge who's ever been excommunicated from a religion because he should not judge lest he be judged.
	I don't think judges ever get – I mean are you supposed to thou shalt not kill?
	Well, no, but the priest will go and bless the army, right?
	So, like, what the hell am I supposed to believe?
	This is what I remember as a kid.
	Like, what the fuck am I supposed to believe to not go to hell?
	Like, I read through the Bible.
	Okay, well, this should be pretty clear.
	I mean, if the punishment is extreme, then the law better be damn simple, right?
	But it is the essence of totalitarianism.
	The punishments are insane, and the laws are incomprehensible, right?
	Yeah, and it's weird because, like, you know, I... I was always of the opinion, you know, I should read the Bible myself when I was younger, which is probably one of the reasons I became an atheist.
	Oh, there's no better cure for religion than the Bible.
	Yeah, no question.
	Oh, yeah, especially Old Testament.
	My God.
	I mean, my whatever.
	But yeah, no, I just point these things out to my mom.
	I'm like, you say God is this all-loving God, but look at the horrible things he does.
	And you can't just dismiss that with, oh, that's the Old Testament.
	I mean, it's the same God.
	Well, it is the same God, and it's the same God who said, this is my son.
	And Jesus himself said, I have not come to overturn one single piece of punctuation in the Old Testament.
	I'm here to fulfill the law.
	I've got no problems with the Old Testament whatsoever.
	Yeah.
	So no, this idea is like, well, you know, we worship the son who's only a god because of the father, and we only know he's a deity because he's a son of the father.
	But the father is stone evil, absolutely.
	And the son says he agrees with everything the father says, but we worship the son who's got the opposite morality.
	It's like, oh, come on.
	I mean, that's not even – that's just the wind – like a breeze blows that house of cards over.
	You don't even need to put breath to an argument, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, and what's the most frustrating is instead of actually addressing my arguments, my mom tends to fold back more into, well, you need to read the Bible, read your, like, these, I guess they gave me these catechisms.
	But listen, no, pull her quotes out.
	No, go to evilbible.com and pull the quotes out.
	And say, look, here, God commands his followers to rape the women and kill the men.
	Do you think that's mom?
	Yeah, and I've done that.
	And what did she say?
	Well, this was over email, so it's a little more tough.
	Don't do it over email.
	No, if you're going to have very, very intense conversations about basic belief systems, in-person, eye contact, no interruptions.
	Yeah, no, and that's what needs to happen again.
	But, I mean, the problem is I moved away, which actually is probably a good thing.
	She read the whole Bible?
	I would assume so.
	I remember seeing her reading...
	I guarantee you.
	I would imagine...
	Listen, I'm sorry to interrupt.
	I would imagine less than 1% of all Christians have read the entire Bible.
	Less than 1%.
	Because those who have, are no longer Christians, right?
	It's a recipe for evil, right?
	Yeah, you know, and it makes me wonder, because I would see her reading the Bible every night before she went to bed, but I wonder if...
	She was using like something that – some sort of guide that cherry-picked Bible verses to read or something like that.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, no.
	I mean reading it cover to cover is – I mean you just recognize that it's the documents of Christ and sadists, right?
	Yeah.
	So yeah, it's probably those study guides or read this part, read this verse, and it ties into this verse.
	And it's cherry-picking, hopscotching your way across the text.
	No, you sit down.
	I mean come on.
	How long does it take someone to read the Bible?
	A week or two?
	I mean, my goodness.
	I mean, what if there's something in there that people have missed?
	What if there's something in there that your particular sect or priest has missed?
	I mean, these are the instructions on how to avoid eternal torment.
	You know, I can understand if he's a man, he doesn't want to read the instruction manual, but women, yes, go read the whole thing.
	I mean, you've got to read it yourself.
	This is what keeps you out of...
	You know, if the doctor says, read this diet book or you die, do people skim it?
	No.
	They read every goddamn thing because it's life and death.
	This is even more than life and death, right?
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	Man.
	So, no.
	I ask her.
	And this is – look.
	If she has read the whole Bible, then you can ask her if she has any problems with any sections of it, right?
	If she says no, then she hasn't read the whole Bible or she's morally insane, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, and the last one might actually be possible.
	I mean, my God, where Abraham's daughters get him drunk and rape him?
	I mean, seriously, if somebody doesn't have a problem with that, then they're morally insane.
	And you can't reason with someone like that, right?
	No, what I find amazing is, this is a common story, too, that Abraham is willing to sacrifice his own son for God.
	Oh, that's insane.
	That's actually...
	Yeah, no, this is actually a common story that's told.
	Like, this isn't like one of the hidden ones that we don't talk about.
	It's like...
	I just don't...
	The other thing, too, is that there's only one person's perspective in that story that's missing, right?
	Yeah, it's Isaac's, yeah.
	Abraham's.
	Yeah, Isaac's.
	Yeah, I mean, I've told this story to my daughter because she's fascinated by Bible stories.
	If we laugh, it's so appalling.
	Because, look, God is basically – there's this kid here whose dad is willing to stick a knife through his chest if he hears voices telling him to.
	I mean, how terrifying is that?
	Society as a whole can't process the perspective of children, right?
	Children are just empty objects to be molded into the deluded plastic fantasies of the adults, right?
	I mean, this is why you don't ever – nobody ever surveys children about their experience in public school, right?
	I mean, it's unheard of.
	I mean, what could that possibly matter?
	Okay, they're the primary customers and they're supposed to be having a good time, but what would the perspectives of children possibly matter in any way, shape, or form?
	I mean, everybody knows what the unborn would say about a national debt, but...
	They don't count.
	They don't matter, right?
	So the idea that you would tell the story like Abraham and Isaac and include Isaac's perspective as a pawn in this psycho game is incomprehensible, right?
	I mean, because if anybody had any respect for children's needs and capacities for mental development, there'd be no superstition at all because it's so damaging to kids.
	So if she's not read the whole Bible...
	Then, you know, my question is, well, what the hell have you been doing with your time?
	I mean, come on, this is the most important thing.
	It's a week or two to read it.
	You've been around 40 or 50 odd years.
	So why haven't you read it?
	And really, can you claim to instruct someone on something you've never finished?
	I mean, you ever try writing a book report on a book you've only read 20% off?
	It's impossible and you get an F, right?
	This is a little bit more important than a book report, right?
	So if she has read the Bible, then she either has some problems with it or parts of it or doesn't.
	If she doesn't, I don't even know what to say.
	If she does, then okay, well, let's talk about the parts of the Bible where you have problems, right?
	And if she hasn't read it all, then well, that's pretty significant, right?
	Why not?
	Been too busy, right?
	Been too busy telling your children about hell to actually read the goddamn book?
	Anyway.
	Sorry, your earlier question is FTR 1927.
	1927, two years before the crash.
	FTR 1927 for the How to Find a Good Therapist thing.
	Okay, awesome.
	Thank you.
	I appreciate that.
	Definitely a good conversation.
	I'm sorry that you're in the situation that you're in.
	I mean, I really, really am.
	It is a very, very difficult situation.
	Yeah.
	I mean, who wants that, right?
	No.
	What about you?
	You haven't mentioned your dad at all.
	Oh, yeah.
	No, actually, that's actually pretty important.
	My dad, he was a pilot, so he was gone a lot.
	So I'm sure that had a pretty big effect.
	What What I find interesting or I felt like revealed more about the family dynamic was after I had told my mom – because my dad happened to be out of town when I told my mom.
	Like a couple of days later, my dad was all – I guess he basically – like after I told him why I told my mom what I told him, he got all – he got really angry with me.
	Sorry.
	What did you tell your mom?
	I just missed that part.
	When I told my mom – like I had sat down with my mom and talked to her about why I didn't believe in God and how I didn't think it was good that she was telling – I mean I didn't think – I was saying it more as a broad statement instead of trying to point it at her that I didn't think it was good to tell kids scary stories when they're young.
	I mean that's a gentle way of putting it.
	But from what I understood – Later on, my mom was crying to my dad, and this is what I heard from my dad.
	And then my dad came back at me, and he was all angry, yelling at me.
	And what I thought was the most amazing and ridiculous thing was, well, if you don't stop doing this, I guess I will take away your inheritance.
	I was just like, you think money is going to control me?
	Oh my god, really?
	Oh my god, I'm so sorry, man.
	I'm so sorry.
	Is he religious as well?
	You know, he was raised in a religious family, but there's something that tells me he has doubts in the back of his head, but he's not going to let that out in the open, especially with my mom.
	Yeah, no, this bit where women go crying to the man to have him be the enforcer, that's pretty sad.
	Yeah.
	I'm so hurt.
	I'm so upset.
	You've got to do something.
	I'm going to do something.
	I'll take care of you.
	Right.
	I'm so sorry.
	That's just a terrible dynamic.
	It's a terrible dynamic.
	And the Inherit is really so – so is there lots of money hanging around that you're like is going to – at some point or what – Sorry, it just sounds so medieval, you know, like this 18th century novel.
	I'm glad I'm having a talk.
	Sam Richardson or something would pen this, like, you're going to be cut off from your inheritance, young man, and there'll be none of this manna for you, and we'll strip the lands, and we'll fornicate with the sheep, and there'll be nothing left for you.
	I mean, it sounds like something out of a Dickens novel.
	It really does.
	Well, and I'm glad I'm talking to someone else about this, because, yeah, it's...
	Thinking back on it, I just realized how ridiculous this is.
	Yeah, I mean, my dad, being that he worked so much and wasn't around that much, he's made a pretty significant amount of money.
	And I think my dad thinks he can just kind of use money to get things done.
	When it's something like this, I don't know where he gets that idea.
	Yeah, it's funny.
	For people who get into philosophy...
	And it sounds like you're kind of up the rabbit hole, right?
	But for people who get into philosophy, it's kind of hard for other people to understand how little of a motivation money fundamentally is.
	I'm not like we don't need it or we don't like it or anything like that.
	But, you know, like people saying, you should monetize your podcast.
	It's like, do you know how I could make over a million dollars next year?
	Easy.
	Easy peasy.
	If money were my major consideration...
	As a somewhat prominent atheist, all I would do is convert to Christianity.
	And I would make a complete and total fortune.
	People would buy my book.
	I would get speaking tours.
	I mean, I would be rich beyond my wildest dreams.
	And given that I am an atheist, what the hell?
	I mean, I'd go tell people some lies and get some money.
	I mean, it's not like I'm going to hell, right?
	Yeah.
	So, what are they going to do?
	Have their invisible sky ghost wag his invisible finger at me?
	Ooh, I think I'll survive, right?
	But, you know, I mean, I never in a million years would do it, but, I mean, it's a great way to monetize my podcast.
	I mean, my goodness, lapsed atheists are like catnip to these people, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I guess they need it where they can find it, because...
	Oh, and I could spill that stuff like so convincingly.
	I mean for those who've heard me argue an opposite position, they know I can argue the opposite of what I believe with incredible intensity and fluidity.
	And I mean I – I wouldn't even get it.
	So I mean I could.
	I wanted to monetize the podcast if money was a motivating factor for me.
	Easy peasy.
	So, yeah, I'm really sorry that you're in this situation.
	I'm incredibly sorry that your father, who claims to be a Christian, is threatening to deprive you of evil materialism.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	If you want to follow me, sell everything you own.
	Give your money to the poor and follow me.
	So take away your money.
	Be poor.
	That's the best way to get into heaven.
	Well, if you don't stop upsetting your mom, I'm going to turn you into an absolutely perfect disciple of Jesus.
	You understand exactly how this works, Dad.
	I'm sorry.
	I think you may be missing sort of what's going on here.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, and it's such a pitiful thing to do.
	And again, it's just when people are out of arguments, the guns come out.
	When people are out of arguments, the trolls come out.
	When people are out of arguments, hell comes out.
	When people are out of arguments, bribery and threats come out.
	I mean the whole government itself and religion is a complete confession.
	I have no arguments.
	I have no way to convince you to do what I want you to do.
	So fuck you, hell and jail.
	That's what we got.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, no, and I think my dad made that pretty clear, so unfortunately.
	That's pretty.
	Now, did he ever have second thoughts about what he said?
	Because, you know, heat of the moment, you know, we can all say stuff.
	Did he ever sort of call up and say, you know what, that was not my finest hour as a father.
	I felt really bad.
	I mean, threatening your inheritance is not the best way to get you to find, you know, because, you know, you're supposed to love your enemies, right?
	That's what Jesus says.
	Yeah.
	I'm still waiting for my inbox to fill in with love from Christians.
	I mean, you can go to my video with Peter Boghossian and feel all the love.
	See all the love spilling out.
	See all the love spilling out of people because I am apparently an enemy.
	I don't have to love my enemies, but they do.
	And boy, it seems to be a pretty hard one for people to actually follow.
	Yeah.
	I mean, wasn't Saddam Hussein an enemy?
	To George W. Bush, as he felt.
	Yeah, so, I mean, why wasn't he over there, you know, tonguing his ear and giving him a big hug?
	I don't understand.
	Love your enemies.
	Well, what's with the war thing?
	I mean, what are you, the devil?
	Anyway.
	Yeah.
	No, yeah, and my dad actually did call me back later and said that he didn't think he dealt with it in the best way, and so, I mean, I guess at least he did that, but...
	He never mentioned or apologized for threatening to take away my inheritance.
	Oh, so he didn't actually withdraw the threat?
	Yeah, he never withdrawed the threat.
	Oh, son, I'm so sorry I stuck a knife in your side.
	Dad, could you maybe take it out?
	I'm really sorry that, you know, that wasn't really great.
	Could you take the knife out?
	No.
	But I am really sorry that I put it in there.
	Could you maybe call 911?
	No.
	But I am still sorry that it's in there.
	Could you maybe at least get me a long draft of scotch?
	No.
	But I'm still sorry that it's in there.
	Oh, I'm so sorry.
	Yeah, he was more apologizing about, I guess, talking all angry and basically yelling at me.
	And, I mean...
	I guess I could have pointed out the whole, well, are you still going to take away my inheritance thing?
	But then part of me is like, I don't want to show that actually.
	That's not a huge motivating factor for why I'd want to Continue to talk to my parents.
	I don't want to...
	No, no, no.
	That's terrible.
	Don't be a cash whore in that way.
	I know you're not, right?
	Obviously, that wouldn't be...
	Yeah, no.
	You wouldn't...
	I mean, you get that kind of money, you won't even enjoy it.
	I mean, I guarantee you it would just be like you.
	Everything you touch is kind of slimy that you buy with it and stuff like that.
	So that wouldn't be...
	Now...
	What was I going to ask?
	Ooh, it was going to be good, too.
	Let me see if I can remember.
	I'm afraid I out-tangented...
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, okay.
	So Apology 101, since apologies have basically been taken over by bad people in order to crush any resistance from good people.
	But I apologize, man.
	Why are you still upset?
	So a good way to test if somebody is really sorry is to say, and you promised to never do it again, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	I guess I didn't think about that at the time.
	I should have.
	That's important, right?
	If I apologize to my daughter, she says, and you will never do that again, right?
	I'm like, I will never do that again.
	And I don't.
	Yeah.
	You know, I mean, seriously.
	I mean, you steal something from a store, you're working there, right?
	You walk off with some of the merchandise, and then they catch you and you say you're sorry.
	And then you do it again the next day, and you say, oh, I'm sorry.
	And you do it again the next day, oh, I'm sorry.
	It's like, at some point, you can stop doing this shit, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, anyway, I'm sorry about this.
	Do drop me a line if you can and let me know how it goes.
	I'm really horrified at the degree to which superstition separates people from reality, from each other.
	I mean, it's just wretched, and I'm sorry you have to go through this, but people make their choices.
	You have your own life.
	You have your own future ahead of you.
	People make their choices, and as the good Lord says, you reap what you sow.
	So, I'm sorry about that.
	Yeah, no, and thanks for giving me a chance to talk about it, so.
	You're very welcome.
	All right, who's up?
	Next.
	All right, next is That Welsh Man, as he requested to be called.
	Go ahead.
	That Welsh Man, the guy who still owes me money?
	Wait, Welsh?
	Welsh.
	Welsh.
	If he hasn't subscribed, if he hasn't donated, we will call him The Welsh Man.
	Sorry, just kidding.
	Go on.
	What's up, my friend, with the name I'm sure is too hard for us whiteys to pronounce?
	You said it right.
	Say it right.
	Say it loud.
	Who's your daddy?
	What's up?
	Hello.
	Yeah, I am.
	Never even thought together.
	It's 22 in the morning, so...
	Never just kept my thoughts.
	Oh.
	Yeah.
	I was just wondering...
	I was looking to talk more about UK politics.
	More so.
	Because we don't really talk about it much.
	You just pawn it, but you don't talk about it much.
	I was just wondering...
	To bring in the National Service Bill, basically.
	Yeah.
	And it's basically, to bring the law, you know, it's education, you have to stay in education until you're 18, and every year of National Service, that's what we're planning to bring.
	And I wanted to discuss about education and stuff, and yeah.
	So this National Service thing, so if you're not in college or uni, I guess as it's called there, What do you have to do if you don't do that?
	Basically, I don't know, but I'm lucky because as soon as I leave school, I don't have to go to college.
	But I think within a couple of years, you have to stay in education until 18.
	So you're forced to stay in state education.
	And then after that, there's one year of natural service.
	And actually...
	I'm not really good at explaining but I've got a nice video which basically, hopefully that's the one, which basically explains it in detail.
	And you have to do childhood work and then you have to stay for my parents to be educated, to have self-respect and to look after yourself brainwashing, brackets, educating yourself by your state.
	Right.
	To keep shambles.
	I'm sorry about that.
	Yeah, but if it comes in...
	Yeah, there's a link there.
	Basically, if it was true, I'm fucked.
	Basically, I have to do it.
	Between the age of 18 to 26, after one year I get arrested, you will be fined.
	And if you don't pay a fine, you'll be fined in prison.
	Simple as.
	So I'm basically screwed if it goes through.
	But in my life it will go through.
	I don't know what could I do, because it's not officially, it's not like National Service back in the day, enforcers, but you have to do challenging work, that type of stuff, or the enforcers.
	Yeah, let me just read a little bit about it for those who don't, and I'm sorry because I can sort of follow the accent, but I think for a lot of people this is like an episode of Trainspotting and Fast Forward.
	So it says a bill reintroducing national service or conscription in the UK has been put forward to discussion in Parliament.
	The legislation would make it mandatory for 18 to 26-year-olds to participate in military or charitable service for a period of one year.
	The bill was brought to Parliament by Conservative MP Philip Hollibone, who I'm sure is over 26 and thus is not going to be subject to the rules he introduces for others, who has championed the legislation as a way to inspire young people in Britain with self-respect, personal reliance, discipline and behaviour.
	What?
	Behaviour?
	I want to inspire you with behaviour.
	I want you to be beautiful with skin.
	I want you to be warm with clothing.
	It's just weird.
	No, because nothing says self-respect, personal reliance, and discipline like being forced at gunpoint to do something.
	I mean that just screams go to jail, pay a fine, or obey my orders at gunpoint.
	That is really going to teach people self-respect, personal reliance.
	You see, you're not relying on the gun pointed at you to tell you what to do.
	That's personal reliance.
	And there's nothing that says discipline like please don't shoot me.
	He says, I believe that the introduction of a modern...
	I have to do this right voice for this.
	I believe that the introduction of a modern form of national service would be popular with the public and be of immense benefit to young people who will take part.
	Hollabone said.
	Actually, I think he just bellows into like an ear horn or something like that.
	The year of charitable and military service could range from care for the elderly or disabled to work with the emergency services or the armed forces.
	Those who do not participate would be guilty of a criminal offense.
	Holleber brought the bill to parliament to be debated last Friday, but discussion was postponed until February next year.
	Wait.
	He's got more to say.
	Unfortunately, the arcane nature of parliamentary procedures surrounding private members' bills and the lack of time they have for debate will mean that the merits and demerits of the bill are unlikely to be debated and voted upon.
	Holubon said to no one in particular in response to the decision.
	A petition has been started opposing the proposed bill, branding it unacceptable!
	Sorry, that's the wrong voice.
	Wait, wait, there's a woman.
	Can I do a woman's voice?
	Here we go.
	We do not want our children and grandchildren to fight and die in wars or in training that they or we have no control over, wrote activist Debbie Sands, who launched the petition.
	Oh, actually, she's a good person, so that's all right.
	Pretend that was an activist.
	Holubon has earned a name for himself as a controversial MP, having previously suggested legislation that would ban the public wearing of facial coverings in public.
	I assume that would mean Freddie Mercury can't come back from the dead and pay for MP Stadium.
	And the UK's withdrawal from the European Union.
	Oh my goodness, that's insane!
	Ha ha!
	The idea of reinstating UK national services which was abolished in 1960 is not a new one.
	Upon assuming office as prime minister in 2010, David Cameron put forward a pilot scheme called the National Citizenship Service that would address the tragic waste of potential in this country.
	Oh, yeah, because you guys only have the children for 13 years straight.
	So if they graduate as a tragic waste of potential, isn't that the government's fucking fault?
	The initial proposal called for 16-year-olds finishing school to take part in community projects that would instill young people with a sense of civic responsibility.
	You know, this is what happens in a late fascist country when there's no goddamn jobs for kids.
	You've got to find something for them to do, right?
	Cameron described the initiative as a kind of non-military national service designed to encourage people from different backgrounds to interact with one another.
	But too many teenagers appear lost and feel their lives lack shape and direction.
	National Citizen Service will help change that.
	Cameron said at the time, because it was really important that we fight the fascists who attempted to use government to give meaning to young people's lives.
	So I'm glad we beat them.
	Let's now become them.
	Oh, my God.
	However, with the onset of crisis and rising unemployment, the initiative has done little to improve young people's prospects.
	Really?
	Wiping old people's asses is not adding to their human capital.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Well, youth unemployment is the highest in 20 years as well.
	There's quite a lot of things which I find annoying.
	Because already, for example, quite a lot of care homes in the UK have been known for abusing their patients.
	And there's a lot of things, there's a lot of things, or learn to care.
	Ooh, maybe I can help you learn it.
	And the financial support.
	Maybe Dr Osborne should learn some financial support.
	It's just...
	God, it's horrible.
	Well, and it also...
	So much of society is the problem of single parents, right?
	I mean, just very, very briefly, right?
	So, like with this healthcare shit in the US, right?
	So, Obamacare.
	Why on earth would you need health insurance to cover going to a doctor when you're pregnant?
	I mean, pregnancy is not...
	Yeah, pregnancy is not an accident.
	I mean you plan to get pregnant.
	There's one woman in the history of humankind who didn't plan for it, good old Mary.
	But this is not an accident at all.
	I mean this is – you go and you have sex and you don't have birth control and you get pregnant and then – Why on earth that would be covered under insurance makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
	But the reason why is that, of course, women need this stuff because the husbands aren't there, because the men aren't around, because the whole goddamn society has fundamentally changed where women are now married to the state, which is not around to raise their sons.
	And so in England, fatherlessness is at a record high, as it is in most places in the West.
	Yeah, it's terrible.
	It's all over the UK, right?
	Yeah.
	And so you got a bunch of these kids coming out.
	They don't know what the hell to do with their lives.
	They got no male role models except what they see on TV, which is all rap and shit like that.
	And so they just ridiculous ways of, right?
	Bill Bryson.
	Is it Bill Bryson?
	Listen, some guy got a book called Among the Thugs, which is just a terrifying expose on the football culture.
	I read like 30 pages of them.
	I'm like, oh, my God, this is like putting my face through a cheese grater for an hour.
	Let's forget it.
	So, yeah, so it's all just a mess.
	And, you know, the kids these days, it's like, well, what the hell is wrong with society that kids are coming out like this?
	Well, I don't know, but let's order them around a little bit more, and I'm sure that will help.
	Yes, it's a big mess because we're at NHS.
	For example, in all those hospitals, I'll speak quite slower now because I understand American people, there is basically people left to die, you know, shit, and then the NHS is still going.
	I think, if it was a private company, it would have fallen its arse by now.
	Care homes.
	This would really sicken me.
	This care home had a five-star rating by the state, by the council.
	And in two years, five patients died in their own bed from dehydration.
	Sure.
	And then people, people, and then when I mentioned private, it's like, no, the state's in a shit job, because five star rating to a care home, which leads people to die, you know, in filth, die in pain.
	And this is what, that's what describes socialism.
	A woman who's been beaten up by her husband says, if I give him my credit card and my details, stop punching me.
	That's what socialism to me is.
	A woman who's been beaten up, I think, if I give my husband more power, maybe stop beating me up.
	And then I live in a Socialist and liberal area.
	Wales is primarily a socialist primary area.
	And some people are going to smash your head then.
	And that means there's always stuff I can rant about.
	There's always stuff I think, if all you do, Well, look, I'm real sorry for this.
	The only thing I'll say is that if I were in your shoes, I would neither submit to the government's demands that I spend a year of my life doing what they order me to.
	I would also neither go to jail.
	If there's any way to just pay the fine, then just pay the bastards off and go live your life.
	The fact that there's almost a million youth 18 to 24 out of work means the system is fundamentally broken.
	And I bet you the trade unions are pretty keen on this too.
	I mean the whole purpose of middle-aged people is to keep young, hungry, unencumbered people out of the workforce, right?
	So the way the economy is supposed to work is you're supposed to start off young and relatively inexperienced in which case you work for cheap but you have not that much value.
	And then middle-aged people compete with young people even though middle-aged people have like kids and mortgages and all that sort of stuff, cars and all the stuff they have to pay for because they've gotten smarter and better and wiser at what it is that they do so they have that experience.
	But the problem is a lot of people in their middle ages, as stupid as they were when they were 18, have a little economic value and the only reason they've gained any money is because of government protections and rent seeking and unions and so on.
	And so they've got to keep the young out of them.
	I mean how long does it really take to learn how to be a plumber of someone's house?
	Like a month or two?
	Seriously.
	So you've got kids who are 16 or 17.
	They'd love to go do that.
	It's great.
	Work with your hands and make people's crap flow smoother.
	Sort of a job of a politician and a plumber I guess.
	And so the fact that these – they have to keep these kids out of the workforce.
	I mean otherwise they're just taking away jobs from hiring people who are paying more taxes and have more political clout.
	So anyway, I'm sorry.
	Listen, I've got to move on to the next caller because we've only got a few more minutes left in the show.
	I will try and get everyone in.
	but Mike who's up next alright Ash you're up next Go ahead.
	Hey, Steph.
	Can you hear me?
	Sure can.
	How are you doing, Ash?
	Alright.
	Thank you very much.
	Hey, calling from Panama City, Panama tonight.
	Founding member of the Freedom Main Radio Panama City branch here.
	So holding it down in Central America.
	Fantastic.
	You know, when I was in Belize, I met with a guy who was very keen on Panama as a destination for liberty-minded folks.
	What are your thoughts?
	Yeah, I think so.
	I mean, they make it very, very easy for Americans, especially entrepreneurial Americans, to get permanent residency here.
	It only takes about four to six months, and I mean, I haven't seen any type of violence.
	I haven't been discriminated against.
	There's a fairly large expat community.
	You know, we have about a dozen people in our free domain meetup group down here, and we're about once a month active, so it's really nice.
	Well, hey, next time you guys meet, let me know.
	Maybe we'll do a call-in.
	All right.
	Absolutely, Steph.
	We definitely will.
	We're going next Friday out to Casco Viejo, so we'll definitely give you a ring.
	Oh, sorry.
	Not next Friday.
	Okay, next Friday.
	But after that, I promise.
	Well, the next time, Steph.
	Get a video and get a decent bandwidth, and we'll do it.
	Absolutely.
	Well, hey, I wanted to call in.
	I really appreciate what you've done.
	You've definitely helped me come to...
	Realize and apply a consistent application of the non-aggression principle all the way down to children.
	I unfortunately don't have children yet, but it's definitely one of the biggest goals that I have in my life.
	I would love to be a father one day, and I think I'm going to be many, many times better than the father that I had that ran out on my brother and I and cheated on my mom when we were very young, so I really appreciate that.
	I'm so sorry.
	You're a terrible model.
	Yeah, it was crap.
	But secondly, you definitely helped me bridge the gap from Ron Paulism, if you will, to anarchism.
	So thank you for that as well, Steph.
	That was a nice jump, and you definitely played a big role.
	So what I wanted to call about was I wanted those two things said.
	I wanted to get your opinion or just your history or your journey through communicating these two ideas of atheism and anarchism and some of the milestones that you may have reached, some of the revelations that you've reached.
	I find it very difficult to understand these concepts.
	It's not difficult to understand.
	It's difficult to overcome all the insecurities and all the emotional trauma that you've been put through during your childhood.
	Once you overcome that, it's very difficult to try to communicate that with others.
	You definitely do a very good job at communicating.
	I think that's one of the main things that I take away from your interviews and your podcast now.
	Your ability to communicate and asking questions to drive forward the conversation.
	So I used to be a push debater, and now through listening to you and some other people, I'm definitely more of a poll debater.
	And I just want to see if you had any insights or something you could help guys like me who kind of are starting to put a consistent application of this stuff together, but still am really concerned about my communication efforts.
	Yeah, well, I mean, good for you.
	That's a very important topic to be concerned with and advanced, right?
	So, you know, once you're no longer drowning, you can help other people who are still in the water, right?
	So, good for you.
	And, of course, good for you, whoever is currently hanging off the platonic umbilical cord over the world who's going to upend themselves into your life as a kid is going to be very lucky.
	So, that's good for you.
	I mean, it's interesting.
	You know what one of the greatest secrets of life is?
	And once you get this...
	Ooh!
	Steph Bart has got a secret.
	Right?
	So once you get this secret, you have immense power.
	Please, I don't have to tell you.
	You'll use it for good.
	Okay.
	But you, standing right behind this guy, don't use it for evil.
	One of the greatest secrets in the world is that people are almost never listened to.
	Like really listened to.
	Right.
	And it's more than just that old observation.
	Most people are just – they're not listening.
	They're just waiting their turn to talk or whatever.
	It's much deeper than that.
	Everybody says everything that you need to know about them in the first few minutes and sometimes even in the first few seconds.
	It may be verbal or it may be nonverbal.
	It may be a tattoo.
	It may be a funny hair color.
	It may be a very stiff suit.
	It might be an awkwardness in sitting.
	It might be a lack of eye contact.
	It could be any number of things.
	But my God, how few people actually get listened to in this life.
	A lot of organizations get a huge amount of their power Simply out of taking an interest in someone and listening to them.
	So in cults, it's called like the love bomb, right?
	They just come and everyone's your friend and they're all smiling and it's all so great to see you and so on.
	And then that sort of overrides people's sort of natural skepticism about groupthink and so on, right?
	But if you think about the Catholic confessional, well, in a confessional, you go into the little cubby.
	It all seemed like a creepy kind of ceremony to me, but you go into this little cubby and you talk about What's troubling you?
	And you receive – I don't think the absolution is really the point.
	I think it's also giving the priest power over you, which is not – but how many people actually get listened to and asked questions about themselves?
	I mean what's it been like in your life in terms of people actually listening to you?
	As a child, I was never really asked any type of questions.
	In public school, I went to a Lutheran church, went through catechism and confirmation, and got beaten with the stick of hell to follow their little carrot of heaven.
	It was never really a communication.
	There was no communication there.
	It was very top-down.
	So I definitely understand what you're saying.
	Nobody is listening to.
	Whenever I am hanging out with some of my liberty-minded friends, or friends in general, I find myself constantly asking questions to them now.
	I mean, it could be that I've transitioned from an engineering role into a sales role now, so I've realized that your ability to ask relevant questions and be curious about what other people are doing is a real way to communicate.
	But as a child, no.
	It's just like public schools at home.
	You pretty much sit there and you're told what to say or what not to say or what to think.
	I mean my mom would have a phrase that she used all the time.
	It's children should be seen and not heard.
	You just don't answer questions.
	You don't ask questions.
	And if you do ask questions, when you come from a broken family like mine, I was 10 and my brother was 8 whenever my dad left.
	If you ask questions, it brought out more pain.
	So you learn to choke back tears and you learn not to ask questions because you just didn't want to hear it.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Hang on, hang on.
	Oh, I sense a thread of narrative here.
	Well, I mean, what's wrong with bringing out more pain?
	Oh, now I realize that there's nothing.
	Now I realize that the pain needs to come out, and the anger needs to come out, and the tears need to come out, and you need to face this, and that's taken a good two decades for me to do.
	But back then, I was scared, and since I never was negotiated with, and I was never asked questions and communicated with, and like a back-and-forth I was always just talked to, I never even had the skills to really ask questions, so it was very frightening.
	Well, so, and I'm sorry to interrupt again, but, and the reason I like to be nitpicky when people talk about their history, because if we get something wrong about our history, that's like turning the compass a couple of degrees the wrong way when you're sailing across an ocean, like you can end up in a different continent, right?
	So you said, I couldn't ask questions because that would cause pain.
	That's not the truth of why you couldn't ask questions, but it sounds like a very important thing to get wrong.
	All right.
	So why couldn't you ask questions as a kid?
	Maybe because I didn't feel that...
	Maybe I was just too frightened?
	No.
	No, that's putting the onus upon you.
	That's putting the onus upon you as a child and saying that it's your unprovoked emotions that dominated the relationship.
	But that's not true.
	Children never dominate the relationship with their parents.
	No.
	So why couldn't you ask questions?
	That's a very good question, Steph.
	I don't have the answer.
	I'm not trying to lead you somewhere.
	I'm genuinely curious.
	Because the answer that you gave is not...
	Therapists ask painful questions all the time.
	Your doctor's feeling your abdomen up, right?
	And when I went in for my checkup after chemo, my doctor's feeling me up like, whoa...
	I mean, I feel like I'm in a Turkish prison here.
	And she's saying, does this hurt?
	She's actually trying to find out if there's anything that causes me pain.
	And so asking questions is not barred by the causing of pain.
	Like, you've heard this show.
	I ask people some very difficult questions, and sometimes they get quite upset.
	They get angry or they cry.
	Sure.
	But I think it's important.
	I guess maybe I wasn't mature enough to...
	I don't know.
	You're a kid.
	Come on.
	Well, this is a tendency.
	This is a habit that I've tried to work out for many years.
	I always take blame on myself.
	Yeah, and that's why I want to talk about this because I think you have a bubble in your narrative, like a cyst in your narrative.
	Uh-huh.
	Because the rest of it all struck me as true.
	But that was like, well, anyway.
	Hmm.
	I definitely tend to try to place blame on myself a lot because I felt like I could kind of take it and I could just work with it instead of opening up that can of worms with anyone else and letting them either enhance that.
	I guess I didn't ask many questions growing up because Everything was so fucked up, and I didn't really want the answers that my mom was going to give because maybe they weren't going to be truthful, and they were going to be very hateful against my father, and it was just going to bring more pain.
	And so I kind of just kept it with myself or kept it with my brother, and we would talk instead of asking the questions to the people that may or may not have had the answers, my parents.
	Yeah, because you've two times now—oh, you've twice.
	Sorry, you've twice— Talked in a roundabout way about the fragility of your parents?
	Mm-hmm.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	No, no, go ahead, Steph.
	Well, I mean, in that you said, well, basically they couldn't handle the pain.
	They couldn't handle questions that they would be avoidant.
	And there's a kind of fragility in that, right?
	I mean, if somebody asks you a question, like if you were asking questions about your dad or whatever, I mean, age-appropriate – from an age-appropriate standpoint, you've got to know the answers to these things, and certainly now you have to know the unvarnished truth, right?
	Oh, sure.
	How old were you when your parents split up?
	Ten.
	Oh, man, that's rough.
	Right before puberty, too.
	That's – I mean, it's never a good time.
	I may have called it early, but – Yeah, I was 10 and my brother was 8.
	I really had to take on a role or a fake personality of being larger and tougher than what I was as a child.
	I mean, you're 10 years old.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	I'm so sorry to interrupt.
	I'm so sorry.
	But you did not have to take on anything, right?
	You say you had to, right?
	Right.
	My environment, I was, that was the glass that this child, me, Ash, was kind of poured into at that age.
	And that was the form that my environment kind of nudged me into.
	Yeah, because there is this thing that happens often, not always, but often, when parents get divorced.
	There's this thing that happens where the mom basically takes a kid and says, okay, you're now the parent.
	You're now my co-parent, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	Take care of your brother.
	Yeah, it's complete bullshit.
	Yeah, it's complete bullshit.
	Absolutely, fundamentally wrong.
	Unjust.
	And you simply can't say, well, dad's gone, so who's the new man of the house, right?
	You always see this scene in movies, right?
	The dad has died, and all the asshole relatives are floating around to the 10-year-old kid and say, you take good care of your mama now.
	It's like, no, I'm fucking 10.
	You take good care of my mama now because you're the adults.
	And I'm going to be a kid.
	Yeah, let me be the kid.
	So this idea, like how many divorces would actually be avoided if the moms didn't believe that they could just upvote one of the kids to be the substitute parent?
	Right.
	Like if the kids just, no, no.
	I need more resources now.
	Because there's a fucking smoking hole in the family portrait where Dad used to be.
	So don't ask me to step up because I am going to be regressing now for a while and I need lots of extra resources from you, Mom, because the family just broke up around me and I don't know the history and I don't have the background and I don't know everything that went on.
	I just know that the family has broken up and Dad is gone.
	So you better be there for me, actually.
	Don't ask me to be there for you more now because you're the damn adult.
	Yeah.
	But that's not what happens.
	What happens is the moms promote some kid to be this new dad.
	No.
	It's totally wrong.
	Totally exploitive.
	Selfish, selfish, selfish in the extreme.
	Yeah, for sure.
	So you didn't choose that role, right, to sort of grow up quickly or whatever, right?
	No, I did not.
	No, I definitely did not choose that role.
	It was my environment all of a sudden out of nowhere.
	Your environment?
	Oh my god.
	You really, really don't want to talk any trash about your mom, do you?
	No, I have no qualms with that.
	I really don't.
	Except you keep not talking about it.
	You talk about the environment, right?
	Like that tree did this to me, right?
	The air, the dust.
	I guess what I'm saying is my family environment because it was also bullshit on my dad's side too, and that was really strange.
	So it was coming at me from all areas.
	So yeah, it was definitely my mom.
	Yeah, both of my parents, right.
	And then the weird relationship where my best friends all of a sudden are my stepbrother and stepsister.
	Wait, what then?
	Where do these people come in?
	My dad left my mom for her best friend, who also had kids my age.
	Sorry, your dad left your mom for who?
	Her best friend.
	Are you kidding me?
	No!
	No, you're kidding me.
	You're calling me from the set of like an Italian soap opera here, right?
	No, Steph.
	Seriously?
	Yeah.
	Were they having an affair for a while beforehand or what?
	Yes.
	How long?
	Over a year.
	And I was the little private investigator, Steph.
	What do you mean?
	Like...
	Try to find out what your dad's secret code is on his answer machine so we can call.
	Oh, you didn't.
	She didn't.
	Oh, she didn't.
	Oh, tell me she didn't rope you in trying to find out about the affair when you're nine.
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, my God.
	Oh, my God.
	Why do children have children?
	I mean, I'm glad you're here in the world.
	Don't get me wrong, but oh, my God.
	That's horrendous.
	Mm-hmm.
	So your friends, I guess if it was your mom's best friend, and you know someone's a really great friend when they take your husband.
	That's just friendship 101, right?
	The platonic ideal of friendship is being your friend's husband.
	So these kids that you used to play with suddenly became your siblings, right?
	Instead of being a sleepover, it was like a permanent sleepover, right?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Every other weekend now, I'm going to the house of the woman that stole my dad.
	Now, did he move straight out of your mom's into this woman's life?
	No, he moved into an apartment for a while, some temporary housing for a while, but it didn't take long.
	I would say it took maybe six or eight months.
	And how long did they stay together?
	Oh, they're still together.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	And what do you think of her?
	I don't.
	I'm not saying you sort of sit up every night staring at a picture or anything like that, but what did you think of her growing up?
	What sort of person was she?
	I mean, the mistress.
	Yeah, I mean, I never really interacted with her too much.
	There was always a huge barrier there because, I mean, I knew that she was a slut because of what she did, and I had no respect for her from day one.
	So I really just, yes, I was in her house, but...
	It was very strange because her children and me and my brother were all really, really, really good friends.
	We were still able to kind of keep that friendship and still ride go-karts or play hide-and-seek or whatever.
	It was like I would go over to my dad's but I would never hang out with my dad or my stepmom.
	It was just the children.
	I don't have any respect for her, obviously.
	Do you think that she's better for your dad than your mom was?
	She's more passive, meaning that she's not going to really push back at all.
	My dad's a very insecure and emotionally weak man that has turned into a humongous Christian in his later years as his pseudo-power It has faded away as his sons and step-sons have grown to adulthood.
	So probably in the sense that more unconsciousness maybe is just feeding onto itself.
	But I mean, my mom would definitely push back on him with things.
	I can remember, you know, a year or two before they got divorced, I can remember laying in bed and just hearing them just scream all the time, every night, you know, back and forth, back and forth.
	And that definitely Didn't happen after he got remarried, but as for better for him, I don't know.
	What's better for a plague rat?
	Who knows?
	Nothing.
	I don't know.
	Right.
	And where did his Christianity come from, or his religion?
	Well, he grew up in the 50s and 60s, and my My grandmother was definitely always in the church.
	I mean, my grandfather was a motorcycle-riding alcoholic, didn't give a shit.
	But my grandmother was always in the church, so he got put through the church, the Lutheran church, and that's where he met my mom.
	But then as we got older, the Christianity kind of fell to the wayside, and now I think his insecurities have brought out the mythology again of trying to—like, he feels an emptiness inside, in my opinion.
	And that's—he's trying to fulfill that through Christianity and the sense of belonging to these types of people.
	So it's—I mean, it's completely a fraud.
	But, I mean, everybody around him can tell that it's completely a fraud except him, right?
	His Christianity is—you know, even—it's not even—you know, there's some Christians that you're like, okay, these people really believe this shit.
	And then there's like my dad who's going to say he believes this stuff, but you can tell like talking to him when he's away from like some other people in the family that it's just like – it's more of like a fright, but it's really strange.
	Yeah, it is.
	I mean I've never – like if you really have love, like real soul-to-soul love in your life, I can't imagine being tempted by fantasy love.
	Do you know what I mean?
	Like, if you can have great sex with someone you really love, and you really know each other at every level, or someone says, or you could go watch porn but never touch yourself, be like, no, I don't want the fantasy thing without fulfillment if I can have the real thing, because that is fulfillment.
	And so when somebody says, Jesus loves you, God loves you, It's like they're mining for a big wound in someone.
	My imaginary friend loves you.
	I mean, how hungry for love must you be that you're willing to accept someone's imaginary friend's love for you as...
	I mean, my God!
	You know, it's like...
	If you've had a really great meal, you don't want to stare at a hologram of a meal if you're hungry in particular, right?
	You don't want a piece of plastic fruit, some rusty water, and a banana peel.
	It's just not going to be very appealing.
	But there is something – my father has gone through the same thing where – There is something where...
	Intelligence is no barrier to it.
	My dad's very smart.
	Intelligence is no barrier to it.
	It's just...
	It seems like...
	If people have lived life pretty badly...
	I think there's a part of them...
	That just kind of gives up on getting the real thing.
	And they escape into the fantasy of the thing.
	You know, like I... I haven't lived the kind of life, neither am I willing to make the kind of amendments or restitutions that I might make.
	I haven't lived the kind of life where someone is really going to love me and it's too late to turn around now.
	Like if someone's terminal and they're in pain, you give them morphine, right?
	And if somebody's been nasty and is old, you give them God, right?
	Because then it can at least imagine someone cares for them, right?
	Right.
	That's truly tragic.
	To me, it's a giant flare sent up which says, nobody loves me.
	I mean, there's so many of these flares you see in the world, right?
	People who dress overly sexy, guys who flash their money around a lot.
	All they're saying to me is, nobody loves me.
	Nobody loves me.
	Nobody loves me.
	And it happens all over the place.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Ultimately, I think that is one of my dad's, one of his biggest fears is that He left and he no longer has a love of me and my brother, which is true.
	There's no true love or no true respect there.
	But I think that you're right.
	And him finding God or baby Jesus or whoever is an attempt to fulfill the love that he can feel is not there.
	And he fucked up and he lost.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I'm never going to have the real thing.
	I can't live without, and so I'm going to have the imaginary thing that kills any possibility of the real thing.
	Right, right, right, right.
	I mean, I can't, you know, I've been told I'm going to hell and this and that, and it doesn't matter, but it kind of wraps back into the original topic of the, you know, communication.
	Like, I think, ultimately, there just was not any, like, whenever I tried to talk to my mom and dad, and for the most part, I've given up, you know, I don't really care to speak to either one of them.
	But it's – they're not able to communicate.
	Neither one of them sense really – I don't sense any real empathy towards me or towards what I've gone through or towards what I feel.
	And they never really ask questions whenever I do speak with them.
	Which is infrequent, but whenever I do speak with them, you know, it's always them telling me about themselves and them telling me about, you know, they've got a house for sale or what happened in church group or, you know, there's no questions coming from them.
	And I can only imagine the type of irrational, you know, I hate to even call it conversation, but irrational yelling matches that happened to two people that weren't able to or weren't willing to ask questions and try to empathize with each other.
	Yeah, it is.
	It is.
	You know, there's just a couple of, since there was some interest in the chat room about this topic, maybe a little bit more on the confession of lovelessness.
	You know, when people say, I need welfare, they're saying to me, nobody loves me.
	You know, when people say, I need social security, what they're saying to me is, Not just to me.
	What they're saying in general is nobody loves me.
	I mean, I feel loved to me.
	People support me all the time.
	They send money.
	They help out with the show.
	They send the show around.
	They contact people to come on the show.
	I mean, I feel really loved.
	I don't just mean in my household and my friends and family.
	I mean, in the world, I feel I get emails every day and people, I need those emails.
	They help, they feed, they remind me of what this conversation is doing in the world.
	But every time people say, I need the state to take care of me, all that I hear, all that I hear is, I have not earned anybody's support.
	I have not earned anybody's charity.
	I have not earned anybody's help.
	Nobody likes me enough to help me.
	I need the government to pay for this, that, and the other.
	Why don't you have friends?
	Where's your family?
	Now, it could be that they had a really shitty family.
	I've sympathized.
	I really sympathize with that.
	And I would love to help people out to transition to that.
	But then at some point, you've got to start giving something to the goddamn world, right?
	And it seems to me that When people get all gaudy later on in life, it's just another reason to not give to the world.
	Because it's all about your soul, and I know there are Christians who do lots of great things.
	I'm not talking about that in general for all religious people.
	But it's just another way of being self-involved.
	It's just another way of being a narcissist to think about your relationship with God and whether you're going to get to heaven, the state of your soul and reading your Bible and meeting with your community.
	It's like, God, just go out and do something good for the world.
	Go give something to people.
	If you give something to people, I mean, your community will take care of you.
	I'm a living proof of that, right?
	If you give something of value to the world, the world will take care of you even if you never charge a penny.
	And so people who I need a law to give stuff to people.
	It just tells me that there's nobody in those people's lives who actually really likes them and wants to help them and take care of them.
	Right.
	Maybe I didn't ask questions as a child, Steph, to my parents during the torment and turmoil that was put through because I didn't feel that they were actually there to listen.
	Yeah, I think that you probably, this would be my guess, Ash, that you, whatever the answer was, whether it was an answer, a lie, a non-answer, an avoidance, irritation, anger, whatever the answer, whatever the response was to your questions, it would be unbearable to see as a child.
	Right?
	Right.
	And whatever is unbearable to see as a child, we often will mistake for our personality when we get older.
	Yeah.
	Like, this is just the way it was, or this is the way I was, or we'll blend it into the environment so that parents don't actually have to take...
	We don't actually assign responsibility to parents.
	But you see, we all have to grow up.
	We all have to grow up.
	And I... I'm not trying to say you haven't.
	I'm just talking to the audience.
	We all have to grow up and there's no way to grow up without assigning responsibility to your parents.
	Our parents are the ceiling of our own development.
	They are what we bump our head up against when we grow.
	If we Avoid giving responsibility, particularly moral responsibility for our parents, who were adults.
	Our brain goes deep down, oh, okay, so adults don't have responsibility.
	Right?
	The most fundamental and powerful element of the human mind is universalization, conceptualization.
	That's how everything that we do that's different from a goddamn amoeba works.
	Universalization and conceptualization.
	Whatever rule you make for your parents, you make for yourself.
	Whatever rule you make for your parents, you make for yourself, which is why people who forgive unrepentant parents so often turn into abusers.
	Go ahead.
	I was an emotional abuser for a very long time in my teenage years and my early 20s.
	I did not take other people's emotions into consideration.
	I had little empathy.
	Just to get what I wanted and then try to squirrel out of any problems that I would get into.
	So I completely agree with that.
	Yeah, because you've got this rule with your parents, right?
	Which is that they're not really responsible.
	And if they're not really responsible, then you get to not have to blame them and hold them accountable.
	But the problem is that you then can't hold yourself accountable deep down.
	And so it is – this is why I am urging people, don't forgive unrepentant people because you know what that means?
	It means that then you set up a rule called I can demand forgiveness without repenting, without restitution.
	No, no, no.
	Because if you can – if you deserve forgiveness after you've done something wrong, just because, what that does is it raises your capacity to do wrong much higher.
	If you can do wrong without negative consequences, then you're asking other people to subsidize whatever you're doing that's wrong.
	Subsidies, they only occur in the political realm or the economic realm as an after-effect of the subsidies, the moral subsidies that occur in our relationships, in our lives, so fundamentally.
	Whenever we forgive wrongdoers when they have not earned our forgiveness, We also say that we can do wrong because other people have to forgive us.
	People who don't do wrong don't elevate forgiveness as an absolute.
	Why?
	Nothing to forgive.
	And people who've done wrong and who've actually earned forgiveness, they don't elevate forgiveness to an absolute.
	The root of all evil, I think as Ayn Rand said, is the desire for the unearned.
	Now she talked about it economically and politically, but to hell with that.
	That's not important.
	That's not important at all.
	That's just an after effect.
	Whatever rule you make for your parents, you make for yourself.
	It will be your future, I guarantee it.
	If you say, my parents were bad because they had bad childhoods, what that means is you are giving yourself permission to be bad because you had a bad childhood.
	The moment you say, I am responsible for my life and if I had a bad childhood, it's even more important and even more incumbent upon me.
	To get the help and growth that I need to be a better person, then you get to break free of that but you also have to hold your parents accountable.
	UPB, universally preferable behavior.
	You cannot create fragmentary moral rules.
	They don't work.
	They will split you apart.
	They will tear you in two.
	You'll be like one of those people being punished in the Middle Ages by having a horse tied to each limb and having the horses stampede off in opposite directions.
	You will be torn apart.
	And you will either become what you despise or shred yourself into nothing if you create opposite moral rules for your caregivers, for your parents, for your teachers, for your priests, for your politicians, for your political masters, for your economic masters, for your bosses, for your girlfriend, for your wife, for your husband.
	One moral rule.
	Not many.
	Whatever you create that is the lowest standard is the standard that you will inhabit.
	Raise the standards for everyone and inevitably your standard will raise as well.
	But whatever, it only takes one hole to sink a boat.
	It only takes one lowered standard to sink your life.
	One lowered standard will sink your life.
	For you to actually have integrity to moral standards, they must be universal to everyone.
	So, just wanted to mention that.
	Thank you, Steph.
	You're very welcome.
	Can I get to the next caller?
	All right, Chris, you're up next.
	Great rant, Steph.
	Hey, are you able to hear me?
	I can.
	How are you doing, Chris?
	I'm doing well.
	How about you?
	I'm well, thank you.
	So, yeah, I actually go to your old university and...
	It's pretty cool because sometimes I walk around.
	Not University of Toronto, so McGill.
	Okay, okay.
	Yeah, and so sometimes I walk around with my friends and sometimes we're like, hey, maybe we'll sniff one of Steph's old skin particles.
	Can you find my hair?
	I think I lost a good chunk of it at McGill.
	Yeah, so that's pretty cool.
	Well, anyway, I don't want to hold people on too long, so I just had a question first about your views on those type of arguments, like, if you don't like it, just leave, type arguments, and why those arguments are so convincing to people like academics, like when I go to school every day, why does that convince virtually all my professors?
	Even though that's such an obviously wrong argument.
	And these people are rational thinkers, quote-unquote, right?
	They have a career in theorizing about these issues, but for some reason they just overlook these basic problems.
	So why is it that intellectuals overlook these simple, basic issues?
	Yeah, well, all philosophy that is not lived is a defense mechanism, right?
	I mean, obviously.
	So they're not living.
	Everyone in academia is not living.
	Philosophy.
	Because the first philosophical commandment is do not initiate force and they're paid by government sanction and control and protection.
	So number one.
	Number two, of course, and I've got a video on this called The State is Family, which is the reason why the argument love it or leave it is so compelling is that it's how people are raised, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	As long as you live in my house, you do as I say.
	When you're under my roof, my rules, right?
	Yeah.
	You don't like it, son?
	You can just leave anytime you want.
	There's the door.
	Now, it's ridiculous.
	Kids can't leave.
	Everybody knows that.
	But again, this is just the panic and abuse that occurs when people need obedience and have no good reason for it.
	Yeah.
	People crave the obedience of others but cannot achieve it through anything positive.
	Then they simply resort to negative, right?
	Of course, right?
	And so the reason that all these irrational arguments are even remotely believed is simply because they have been… Part of everyone's upbringing for years and years and years.
	And so you don't really...
	I don't sort of sit here...
	I'm a native English speaker.
	I don't want to sit here and say, what is the word for abstraction again?
	Like, you know, I'm not trying to translate on the fly to another language.
	It's just a language I grew up with.
	So I'm very fluent in it, very fluid with it.
	And so with these people, they're fluid in these arguments because they've heard them a million times before.
	Usually as...
	As children, right?
	Almost always as children.
	They've heard these arguments a million times before and it's all nonsense, right?
	I mean as I've talked about before, if you had a rule that said women who want to divorce their husband have to leave the country and leave their friends and family and money behind, everybody would go insane and say what – I mean – and if I were then to say if this rule were implanted and say, well, women must love their husbands because they don't leave them.
	I said, well, in order to leave them, they have to leave all their money, their language, their – Friends, their family, they leave the country.
	So how can you say that women love their husbands because the barriers to their exit are so high?
	I could understand, love it or leave it, if there was no border controls anywhere in the world.
	If there are no passports, no entry requirements, if you could be stateless, which the UN explicitly forbids, not that it can forbid, but it's part of the international law.
	You have to be a citizen of some state, right?
	Otherwise, you're like Tom Hanks living in an airport, right?
	You can't be out of the farm.
	You can be on somebody else's farm, but you can't be in the wilds, right?
	And so this is – it's a ridiculous argument.
	I mean then they should be working as hard as possible to lower necessities for passports and residencies and green cards and social security numbers and so on, right?
	Then – because you can't test the theory until the borders are all open and they're sure as hell they're getting more and more closed every year.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I agree with all those things and I think What I think you can do to undermine the argument in the first place is that they're begging the entire question of political philosophy to begin with, right?
	They're saying if you don't like it, well, you must obey or you must leave.
	But they're just assuming the legitimacy of the authority in the first place.
	Whereas if I said if I spin my arms, you know, in the next – like a 50-mile radius and if you come into it, you're going to get hit.
	If you don't like it, just leave.
	No one would go by that because my authority is not legitimated.
	So – They're just completely begging the question of what it means for political authority to be legitimate or illegitimate in the first place.
	That's a great argument.
	Is that yours?
	I've never heard that before.
	It's really great.
	Yeah, I saw a very small form of it by Roderick Long.
	I think he alluded to it.
	And then I usually work out all these problems with my friend who's excellent in philosophy.
	He's like top at McGill.
	And we fleshed out the formalized version of this argument where they're basically assuming the premise of legitimacy.
	Which, you know, a legitimate authority ought to be obeyed or you must leave.
	And so all they're doing is just assuming legitimacy in the first place.
	And that needs to be justified.
	You can't just assert that in the first place.
	So I thought maybe that would be helpful to you if you ever encountered that argument yourself again.
	Actually, I came up with a really good argument yesterday on the fly with...
	With Peter, which was – they say, well, if there's no religion, people will just do bad things.
	And then it's like, well, when kids stop believing in Santa Claus, do they go on crime rampages?
	No, even though Santa Claus is a morally rewarding and punishing pseudo-deity, right?
	Anyway, no, that's a great argument.
	And you can do – I've got a whole video with a really grating southern accent called Love It or Leave It, A Rebuttal, which goes into sort of this in more detail.
	It's a video and a podcast if you want to sort of do the podcast thing.
	But it is a ridiculous argument.
	But of course it goes way back.
	It goes way back to Socrates, right?
	So Socrates basically said, I chose the protection of the city and therefore the city does bad things, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
	So it's an old argument and that the age of the argument is usually due to the historical nature of parenting.
	So until parents are no longer arbitrary authorities who rule over power and fear and exclusivity and monopoly, we will never be free of aggressive violence.
	I mean, it has to start in the household.
	I mean, there's no point trying to change society until you change parenting, I mean, in any fundamental way.
	Yeah, and that's a perfect segue to my second question, which I think will be more interesting for you, which is how come some people who grow up in, let's say, violent, very oppressed, just violent, NAP-violating families grow up to be statists? NAP-violating families grow up to be statists?
	And why do some people who grow up with not-so-good childhoods like yourself and myself where there was violence and clear, repeated violations of the NAP, why did I come to be a libertarian and why did the other people just end up being statists?
	What allowed me to wake up from the statist matrix or the statrix, as you like to say?
	Well, again, I can't answer that because that's a deterministic question because you're basically at what factors.
	Well, it's choice.
	When people are confronted with uncomfortable arguments, they can either choose to overcome their emotional resistance and say, well, that's a weird argument.
	Like, I swear to God, this happens to me all the time.
	All the time, because I do a huge amount of research for this show.
	I mean, I'm reading all the time.
	I'm looking stuff up all the time.
	I do a lot of research for this show.
	Like, 10% of it maybe makes it into a show.
	But I read stuff, and it's just like, it blows my mind.
	Like, I can't believe it.
	Like, when I got into some of the MGTOW and Men's Rights stuff and all that, I didn't know anything about that stuff.
	And, like, I'm reading more about it and listening to it.
	It's like, damn, that's some really great, great stuff.
	Like Ann Coulter turned me on to like the single mom stuff and I've been sort of going down that rabbit hole.
	There's race and IQ stuff that is just blowing my mind.
	I don't know how true it is and all that but it's still very interesting arguments.
	So like there's stuff that's like – I don't think that's right because I grew up in this multiculturalism thing and there's significant studies that say that multiculturalism significantly reduces happiness in a neighborhood.
	Yeah, in huge numbers of different – and this stuff is like – it's weird.
	It's uncomfortable.
	It's very much against the way that I was brought up now.
	I mean I'm going to – it's funny because when I was talking to the zeitgeisters, everyone was like, oh, Steph, you're still thinking inside your little box.
	It's like, you know, I started as an atheist.
	Sorry, I started as a Christian.
	Now I'm an atheist.
	I started as a socialist.
	Now I'm an anarcho-capitalist.
	I started not, you know, thinking that spanking was, I'm sure, fine.
	And then now I'm sort of...
	So I've traveled so far intellectually from where I... It's funny that people would still say, well, that strong atheist, anarchist, radical pacifist parenting guy, he's thinking in the little box.
	It's like, come on.
	I mean, when the hell do I get out of this little box?
	How much do I have to change?
	Of course, it's not an argument.
	It's just a poisoning the well scenario.
	But yeah, so the reality is...
	That there's lots of things that come to me that make me uncomfortable, that are just, oh, it can't be true.
	Like, I'm reading these arguments about the history of slavery, you know, like 1% of whites in America can trace their history to slave owners.
	Like, that's really not many at all, right?
	Yeah.
	And with the Trayvon Martin stuff, like the Zimmerman Trayvon Martin video I did, it's uncomfortable stuff in there.
	And it is a choice that people make.
	Something is uncomfortable.
	Am I going to use the brain that reason, nature, and Zeus gave me to actually think about what's happening?
	Or am I just going to give myself this stupid...
	Dumber than a jellyfish option of just emotionally reacting and blocking things out.
	Now, why do people make that choice?
	Is it a matter of intelligence?
	Well, that's deterministic as well.
	I think it's a choice.
	I think it's a choice.
	I may be wrong about that.
	Maybe everything is completely deterministic, but the beautiful thing is that if I'm wrong about it and everything is deterministic, I'm not wrong because it was determined that I would think that.
	But I believe that there's a choice.
	And I believe that people respond to incentives.
	There are significant arguments towards a free will that have been advanced by neuroscience.
	We're trying to get – actually, we've got one of the guys booked who's quite far ahead in this field to try and sort of give people the argument, neuroscientific argument for free will.
	But I think it comes down to a choice, and I think people make those particular choices in the moment.
	I very much remember making that choice when I was, I think – Maybe 18 or 19.
	I'd read Nathaniel Brandon's Psychology of Self-Esteem.
	And I was working in Thunder Bay.
	And we'd go out into the bush to get soil samples.
	We'd bring them back in these big-ass bags.
	Then we'd pan them down to see if there was any gold in there.
	We were looking for tailings as gold scraped along by the bottoms of glaciers trying to find the source and all that.
	And I got a gym membership.
	At the University of Thunder Bay.
	Lakehead University, it's called.
	And I went for a nice, long, hard workout.
	And then I was sitting in the sauna and I tried to pick up a girl in the club and sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.
	This girl didn't call me back.
	And I felt a stab at disappointment.
	I was lying there in the sauna.
	There's nobody else around.
	I felt this sort of stab at disappointment that she didn't call me back.
	And then I felt this impulse.
	Just push it away.
	Push it away.
	But I've been reading, you know, Nathaniel Brandon's stuff and he's like, you know, you reject the emotions, you reject identity, you reject a lot of your capacity for thought and intuition and all that.
	Rejecting emotions is rejecting the self, which was not a big thing in Ayn Rand's books.
	It's a pretty sociopathic relationship.
	Two emotions, you know, like the heroes are always eyeing their emotions like unwanted belugas at a dinner table, you know, just cold and glisting and overly white and unwanted and so on.
	And I made that choice.
	I'm like, you know what?
	I wonder if Nathaniel Brandon is right.
	So rather than push away my disappointment that the woman didn't call me back, instead of pushing that away, I'm actually just going to take a deep breath and let myself feel that.
	And that sort of was a turning point.
	And after that, there were lots of things that were uncomfortable, but I got more used to handling my discomfort and recognizing the value in handling my discomfort.
	And there is a choice.
	Now, you could say, what if I'd never been exposed to that material?
	Well, I handed that book around to friends of mine because I thought it was an amazing book.
	I still think it is an amazing book.
	I handed that book.
	And my friends, they had access to the books.
	My friends, I tried to get them all to read Ayn Rand and Nathaniel Brandon and Freud and Jung and Leo Pascalia and all the people that I was reading.
	Even people like Adler and Skinner, all the people that I was reading in terms of psychology in my teens and 20s, I tried to get my friends into it and they just weren't interested and wouldn't want to do it.
	And so there is choice.
	I had exposure to that material.
	I really thought about it and I was willing to submit myself to the expertise of somebody who I respected, Nathaniel Brandon.
	My friends and family were not willing to submit themselves to the expertise of someone.
	And that is a choice.
	So, I mean, I'm only smart now because my thoughts are organized.
	Like, human beings didn't become a whole lot smarter during the scientific revolution.
	It's just they had a methodology for organizing the thoughts and insights and theories, hypotheses, I guess, that they had about reality.
	When your thoughts are organized, you gain the superpower of clarity.
	Philosophy is like a superpower.
	People look and say, wow, that guy can fly.
	It's like, well, yeah.
	But a year or two ago, he couldn't.
	He's just been working on his wings.
	And people can't see the wings, right?
	Because everybody's head looks the same, whether you're thinking or not.
	I guess it's a bit of a slack-jawed Cletus the Yokel thing that goes on with some people.
	So when people are confronted, when you are confronted with information and arguments that are uncomfortable for you, Then you have a choice.
	You can either say, well, everybody knows what the right thing to do is.
	The right thing to do is to analyze the argument rationally.
	Everybody knows that.
	Like if you say to people, should you react to rational arguments with emotional bigotry?
	And people would say, well, no, of course not.
	You should evaluate.
	Assuming the person is not insane, you should evaluate the argument on its own merits, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, when people look at the big book of logical fallacies, they're all like, oh, yeah, that's bad.
	Oh, that's bad.
	Oh, that's terrible.
	Oh, someone did that to me yesterday.
	Everybody knows what the right thing to do is.
	And so if you know what the right thing to do is, then the choice is are you going to do it or not?
	And if you do it, fantastic.
	Then you grow in virtue and effectiveness, power, goodness, truth, love, blah, blah, blah.
	If you decide not to, if you go against it, well, then you just – you get sicker and sicker.
	And eventually you get so sick that you can't turn back.
	Like if you smoke enough cigarettes, you can't be a marathon runner.
	You just can't.
	Your lungs are too fucked up, right?
	And so – but it's all these little choices that people make in these moments at the beginning of things that change where their lives go.
	And that's why I try to encourage young people to study as much as possible, gain as much self-knowledge as possible because through that, you get choice.
	Does that make any sense?
	Yeah, it does.
	It's just frustrating to see that – Especially these academics.
	They are extremely well-read.
	That's their job.
	Their full-time job is to read these things.
	No academic has a full-time job, but okay, go ahead.
	Teach like five hours a week, right?
	I just don't know why I manage...
	When I just heard these arguments, I was just skeptical about them.
	When I heard these typical status arguments, since I was a child, I was just skeptical of them immediately.
	And then eventually, you know, when I first started becoming a libertarian, I resisted the label for the longest time ever.
	And I always called myself, you know, something else like, oh, classical liberal, you know, not libertarian, because I was still against drugs.
	I hate drugs.
	And I was still for drug prohibition.
	But then after a while, I said, you know what?
	I'm just being inconsistent.
	And so I'm just going to have to submit to the force of these arguments.
	But it doesn't seem like other people do that.
	And I'm just – I thought maybe you'd have insight on like the psychology as to why some people are more open to changing their views and becoming more consistent and why other people just aren't.
	Well, it's a choice.
	Why can some people bench press 350 pounds?
	Well, because they practiced and they started with 50 pounds and 100 pounds, right?
	When you see people do amazing intellectual feats, it's like watching Arnold Schwarzenegger flex in the gym.
	You say, well, how come some people are so big and some people aren't?
	Well, because he exercised.
	No, he took a lot of shit too and slept with everything that moved.
	But he exercised, right?
	And so when you see – well, he made a choice at the beginning to not be a skinny-chested Austrian kid and he went to the gym and he worked out for like four hours a day or five hours a day or whatever, right?
	And it's just a choice that people make and some people say, well, I don't want to work out and they get benefits from that.
	Like they don't spend their time in a gym moving metal around in dark rooms, which is really not much fun.
	But you're looking for some sort of explanation, but all I can offer you is that there's a choice.
	Now, that doesn't mean that we just have to cross our fingers.
	Specifically, we want to make the world uncomfortable for people who are irrational.
	Right now, the world is not particularly uncomfortable for people who are irrational.
	It is, in fact, somewhat uncomfortable at times for people who are rational.
	Would you agree?
	Yeah.
	I mean, we've outgrown the hemlock, but that doesn't mean that everything is hunky-dory, right?
	Now, I learned a lot from society.
	I've always said this, always expressed this.
	I learned a lot from society, right?
	You know, the defu question, leaving abusive parents, it's everybody's choice.
	Do it.
	If you're going to do it, if you could do it with a therapist, that's the ideal way to do it, to talk about things with your parents.
	I learned that from society.
	Because when I grew up, everybody was saying, well, look, honey, you don't like your husband.
	You could just leave him.
	Just leave him.
	And if there are kids, well, they'll be fine.
	And so I was taught as a child that relationships were voluntary.
	And, of course, these women who were – I mean, I grew up – all the women were divorced.
	Because when divorced women, they have to cluster around a particular low-rent economic backwater, right?
	Because they're all broke, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	And so everyone around me was divorced and it was great.
	It was empowered.
	It was like, you go girl.
	You ditched the male chauvinist pig, right?
	I remember as a kid thinking, oh wow, that's interesting.
	So you can voluntarily choose to enter into a relationship and by golly, you could just leave it.
	And the women weren't being beaten.
	My dad never beat my mom.
	She just didn't like it.
	Didn't like being married too much.
	Number one reason women give for divorce is dissatisfaction.
	I'm unsatisfied.
	According to Peter Joseph, it's a financial strain because of structural oppression.
	Structural violence.
	Remember, if you have the word violence but it doesn't meet what you want, you add another word in front of it and you can do anything you want with it.
	It's like social justice.
	If the word justice doesn't do what you want, just put another word in front of it and then you can do whatever you want with it.
	But I was raised in an environment where if you didn't like a relationship, even if you'd chosen the relationship, even if you got to test drive the man, if you didn't like the relationship, then by God, honey, you should just leave.
	Because marriage, you see, a lot of people felt was repression, it was institutional aggression, it was patriarchy, it was whatever, right?
	I mean, Hillary Clinton compared it to slavery, which I guess if you're married to horny people, Grabby Fingers Bill kind of makes sense, right?
	Uncle Spanky Fingers as he's known to his entrance.
	But I was sort of raised with, you know, hey, you know, if you don't like the man, leave the man.
	Go have a wonderful life.
	Go open a hotel in Greece and all this kind of stuff, right?
	And so, yeah, then when I became an adult, I'm like, yeah, okay, so if you don't like relationships with your parents, you don't have to be there.
	Oh, no, that's terrible!
	He's a cult leader.
	Wait, does that mean all the feminists were cult leaders because they said that you didn't have to stay in abusive relationships or relationships that were dissatisfying?
	You only have one life to live.
	Go grab your happiness, sister.
	More power to you.
	Well, no, because you see those rules were for adults and in particular for women and we can't have those same rules.
	So yeah, when people come across information that is uncomfortable, what are they going to do?
	Well, I like to listen to society.
	Listen to what...
	Society has told me – and now if society doesn't like the consequences of what society has told me, then society can change its mind.
	Society can say – if adult kids is like, well, I really want to spend time with my parents, then society can say, well, you must because they're your parents.
	It's like, well, I never made a vow to my parents, but my parents sure made a vow to each other.
	I never made a vow to my parents until death do us part.
	I never made a vow to my parents in sickness or in health.
	My parents made that vow to each other and they broke that goddamn vow, right?
	Yeah.
	I never made a vow.
	They made a vow to me implicitly by having me.
	I never made a vow to them.
	And so if you have a vow bonded, when you promise to stay with someone for the rest of your life, till death do you part, in sickness and in health, no matter what, and then you can walk away from that and people have nothing bad to say to you.
	As a wife or as a husband?
	Mostly wives.
	Well, then how on earth can society get upset with adult children who decide to stop seeing their parents?
	Now, they may say, well, you know what?
	You really should stay in those relationships.
	Then what they have to start doing is instead condemning those who made the vow and chose the relationships.
	Kids don't make vows and don't choose their parents.
	Husbands and wives choose each other and make vows.
	So it is much worse, much worse, infinitely worse to break a promise Made before God for most of these people who were religious.
	Made before God himself who were religious.
	Far worse to break that vow than it is for adult children to not see abusive parents.
	Far worse.
	But of course nobody is sitting there and saying, oh, you know what?
	I guess relationships shouldn't be so voluntary after all.
	I guess abuse is not a good reason.
	So we've got to shut down all these women's shelters and tell these little women to get back to their husbands.
	I mean, it's embarrassing to see.
	The contortions to which society is willing to twist itself into to keep the most obvious bullshit out of the all-seeing eyes of the most obvious intelligence.
	And you don't even need a smidgen of intelligence to see how ridiculous this stuff is.
	Yeah.
	Anyway.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I guess my final comment because I don't want to exclude the other callers, but… I'm really worried because, especially at McGill, which I think is an extremely leftist school, you probably have...
	Even in Canada, right?
	Even in Canada, that's an extremely leftist school.
	It's outrageous.
	You have basic liberal egalitarians or normal progressives being shot on by the real left at McGill.
	Unless you are a hardcore Marxist, you won't get a word in at McGill.
	Anyway, I feel like the...
	The number of leftists is coming out of like the statrix machine, like the education machine, is far outnumbering people like myself.
	And so the future doesn't look bright to me, even though, you know, I read like, oh, the libertarian party is getting more support or this libertarian ideas are becoming more popular.
	Well, I find leftist ideas are becoming even more popular at a faster rate because they run the entire educational establishment.
	Sure.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, don't worry.
	Listen, don't worry about the academics.
	I mean, don't.
	Look, how many of the sophists' names do you know of from ancient Greece that Socrates fought against?
	Maybe a few.
	Okay, what are their names?
	Protagoras.
	No Googles!
	What?
	Protagoras, Chrysippus, Chrysippus, Okay, but why do you know their names?
	Because they're villains.
	Because they're in Plato's – because they're in the Socratic dialogues as villains.
	Like why do we know Meletus' name?
	Because he's the one who brought prosecution against Socrates.
	So you only know them as villains, right?
	Yeah.
	How many senators can you name from Caligula's congress or council?
	I have no idea.
	None?
	I can't either, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	How many congressmen can you name from 40 years ago?
	I don't know.
	Strom Thurmond, John Kerry's dad, I mean just not many, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And Robert Bird, C. Bird, the guy was undead, right?
	So what I'm saying is that in the history of ideas, academics and politicians, they don't even register.
	Yeah.
	They don't...
	It's like they never existed.
	Forget them.
	Look at the broad sweep of history.
	These people are as invisible as mosquitoes at four miles away.
	At night.
	They don't...
	I know they matter right now because you've got to get grades from...
	I understand that.
	I played that game too for many years.
	I mean, I understand that.
	Don't shoot yourself in the foot.
	It's okay.
	You can learn...
	Like, ideas are not infections.
	Like, you didn't go lick a leper, but you can go learn about Marxism and even parrot Marxism back.
	It doesn't harm you as long as you know it for what it is, right?
	In fact, it can be a really good inoculation to study deeply.
	I studied Marxism and Christianity and theology very deeply.
	It's useful stuff.
	I took entire courses on Catholicism and Protestantism and Lutheranism.
	I mean, learn this stuff.
	It's useful to know your enemy, right?
	What do boxers do?
	They study The boxing matches are the people they're going to fight.
	They're not watching themselves.
	They're watching the other guy.
	They're studying the enemy, right?
	Yeah.
	If you want to stake your claim in the intellectual history of mankind, don't be distracted by those who hold power in the existing system.
	Everybody who holds power in the existing system will be invisible to the future.
	They will disappear as if they have never lived.
	I mean political power, academic power, even economic power to some degree.
	We still know about the robber barons but only because they serve the interests of socialists, right?
	As a story, as a mythology.
	So aim for the very greatest crown in history, which is to be a moral instructor of mankind.
	If you care about such things, I don't particularly, but if you care about such things, you will be remembered forever.
	And the longer time goes on, the longer the human history goes on, the more you will be revered because the more it will be understood how much you had to stand against with so few supporters.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	So, don't sweat that they have power.
	Everybody who has power In the existing system is corrupt by definition.
	You understand?
	Yeah.
	There were no high-ranking good Nazis.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	So think bigger than little professors at McGill.
	Seriously.
	Seriously.
	Is anybody going to be studying that shit 200 years from now, the little papers that they write and file away in the library there?
	Yeah, that's true.
	No, these guys are going to vanish like they never existed, and nobody's even going to bother to look them up again in 50 years or 20 years, right?
	Forget it.
	Aim higher.
	Be bigger.
	Be a colossus astride the world.
	Lead mankind with a forehead of fire.
	Don't worry about these little people, these little academics.
	I mean, they're just losers with big neofrontal cortexes and tiny dicks hanging onto power.
	Because it's easier than working for a living, right?
	Forget about them.
	Forget about them.
	Play their game.
	Get the degree if that's what you want to do.
	No problem with that.
	But don't look up at them.
	Look down at them with the eyes of history and they vanish completely.
	Name me one politician from the Weimar Republic era in Germany.
	Oh man, I have no idea.
	Seriously, no.
	But...
	But you could name me probably 20 philosophers from history, right?
	Yeah.
	Do you know how many people talk about ideas throughout history?
	Billions.
	How many do you remember?
	20, 30, 40 maybe.
	Aim to be one of those.
	Okay.
	Do you remember any of the professors that the young Nietzsche worked with in his university?
	Nope.
	Nope.
	In philology was his discipline.
	And he worked because he was a complete child genius and he got his doctorate at some ridiculously early age and was like the youngest professor and blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
	Yeah.
	Everybody who worked with him, we don't know who the hell they are.
	They left no imprint on history.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	We remember him and we study him and we read him now.
	Aim to be front and center in the bookstore and In about 100 years.
	Maybe 150.
	Maybe with the internet, 70.
	That's where you've got to aim.
	Because everyone who's at the front of the bookshelf now will be fish wrapping and toilet paper in 50 years, probably even 20.
	You want to aim to be the person who disgusts people now, right?
	Yeah.
	Because that's how you measure, objectively, how you measure the good that you're doing.
	Is you say, okay, is society sick or is society healthy?
	Society is sick.
	We understand that, right?
	Society is sick.
	Now, how does a virus respond to the cure?
	Well, the virus responds to the cure very negatively because the virus doesn't want to be cured because when the virus is cured, it's dead, right?
	My cancer did not like the chemicals and the radiation, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And this is a simple logical step.
	Therefore, if society really likes you, it's because you're not curing its sickness, right?
	Yeah.
	Because I was taught that you make bad habits uncomfortable.
	When I was a kid in England – ooh, this is my biography.
	Anyway, when I was a kid in England, there were these unbelievably horrifying advertisements wherein – Guys with like half a head sitting in a wheelchair would say, oh man, all I wanted to do was take a little drive home from the pub, you know, maybe, you know, less than a quarter of a mile.
	And next thing you know, I mean, I just, I wasn't wearing my seatbelt.
	Next thing you know, I'm going through the window into a giant cheese grating truck machine, then into a cement mixer where I got turned into the foundation for the new Piccadilly line.
	I clawed my way out, only had half a head now.
	It's terrible.
	Yeah.
	And it was a horrible series of just ads where it's like, oh my god, right?
	Or, you know, last night I really tied one on and there's a picture of a tag, a body tag on a toe in a morgue, right?
	Really tied one on.
	Right?
	And there was all of these bad habits.
	You know, smoking, you see the pictures of the lung cancer on the cigarette packages or disgusting teeth or whatever, right?
	Right?
	So, I was told that you make bad habits, you make people who have bad habits really uncomfortable.
	That's how you change people's bad habits, right?
	Yeah.
	Well, haha, right?
	So, what's the worst habit that people have?
	The worst habit in the world is irrationality, because it is out of irrationality that all other evil stem from, right?
	Yeah.
	And so, if we want to make the world a better place, Take a look at yourself and make that change and make irrational people uncomfortable.
	Now, you as a student can't really do that with your profs, right?
	Because you don't fight against people who've got tenure.
	Yeah.
	You don't fight against an aircraft carrier, right?
	And they've got violence, right?
	So...
	So aim bigger than this little petty world of McGill.
	And that doesn't mean don't enjoy your studies.
	You get to read great stuff and great books and you get to write and present and learn all about the enemy.
	It's great.
	It's wonderful.
	But aim bigger and don't be intimidated by all the people who are going to vanish into history like they'll be as indistinguishable from history as one grain of sand is on a beach from a helicopter visit.
	They're going to vanish.
	You aim to stick, which means...
	Think big.
	Okay.
	I'll continue to forge those types of arguments like I mentioned before and with great rigor.
	And I'll keep you updated on my progress on my upcoming book or something.
	Please do.
	Yeah, please do.
	And I'll do what I can to help get the word out.
	And I would strongly suggest to people who aren't into astro travel – sorry, that doesn't make any sense.
	You haven't heard that show yet.
	use this platform use this show as a platform for your work you know I'm happy to help promote stuff you know somebody sent me a great video called The Conversation I mean other than the fact that the woman switched philosophies halfway through and back again but it's a great little video and really well done well acted, well shot, well lit and well worth sharing and so yeah I hope that you will call in and now dear friends is the time in Sprockets when we leave So, thank you everyone so much.
	I appreciate your questions.
	It is always an immense privilege and a pleasure to chat with the smartest listeners in the known multiverse.
	So, have yourself a wonderful, wonderful week, everyone.
	I guess I will not be chatting with you this Sunday or next Wednesday.
	But after that, we'll keep you posted.
	FDRURL.com forward slash donate if you would like to help out.
	And I am off now to have a late supper with the remainder of my voices.
	I did not get to use during the show.
	Have yourself a wonderful week.

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