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Aug. 26, 2012 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
02:25:28
2204 Freedomain Radio Sunday Call In Show Aug 26 2012 - Why You Are So Alone

The myth of human nature - the dream of a bomb - the reason you are so alone.

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Hi everybody, it's DeFan Molyneux from Free Domain Radio for the Sunday Philosophy Call-In Show.
August 26th, 2012.
Ooh, the end of summer, it'd be in sight.
And just a note, we're going to move the Sunday show in a bizarre synchronicity of aging.
My daughter, of course, used to have a nap around 2 o'clock, and so it was good to do the show then.
Now, I like to have a nap around 2 o'clock.
She stopped her nap I'm starting my nap in the great waves crashing on the shore of intergenerational transit.
So we're going to move the show to 10 a.m.
Eastern Standard Time.
I really do apologize to the Rastafarians and Zerastrians.
I know that...
Actually, no, I think 4.10 p.m.
is for the Rastafarians.
It's their particular time of worship.
But for those of you who will be in church, maybe you can get it over Skype.
Anyway, so we're going to move the show to 10 a.m., Sundays, because as the show becomes more and more popular, we like to bomb and weave and hide in the bushes and shrubbery and not be found.
Anyway, so Clinton is back and not the funkadelic cool Clinton, we want the funk, give us the funk, but the other one, shaggy-haired, grabby hands, dewy-eyed, bubber magic guy.
Bill Clinton is now involved in Democratic campaigning.
I must tell you, it's kind of a personal story.
But what the heck, let's switch over to personal once in a while here.
I guess the Clinton stuff came down, went down in the 90s, late 90s.
And I was, for those who don't know or I'm not saying anyone cares, but I was, back in the day, I was a software entrepreneur and I was, when the reports of the Monica Lewinsky scandal first came out, I remember very clearly I was in a car and Being driven by one of our senior salespeople.
We were on our way.
I was in the US. I was on some monster two-week tour of selling software to corporate clients and we were in the car and this all began to come down.
And I must say, gosh, how old was I in 1998?
I was 32 in 1998.
I hadn't really had anything to do with the philosophy world for a couple of years.
I guess in 26, 27 I was doing my master's and then I went into the business world for quite some time and I remember being truly shocked.
You know, I'm not exactly a brood, but I do remember being truly shocked by the Lewinsky scandal.
And I remember thinking at the time, this is going to change everything.
This is going to change everything.
I thought, my goodness, I mean, the feminists are going to come down on this guy for coming down on his interns, I mean, ejaculating interns, inserting Cigars into the vagina while on the phone.
I mean, just really creepy stuff.
I remember thinking, wow, this is going to...
The nature of power, the predatory side of power, this is really going to change everything.
It's going to cause a lot of people on the left to question their allegiances and their alliances, and this is going to shake up the whole planet.
Because I just remember thinking, what an astounding thing.
And of course, my whole life.
I think this was really the beginning of my truly vehement backlash against the ethical void we call the moral centeredness of society.
Because I was truly shocked at what had occurred.
I didn't know the history of LBJ with his secretary and John F. Kennedy on anything that had a pulse and was vaguely carbon based and all that.
I didn't know much about that.
I do know that sort of when I grew up in England, power was always associated with sexlessness.
I mean, certainly when I grew up, that was the case.
I mean, my headmaster, I believe, had ken-shaped genitalia.
And, of course, the royal family, not in one's worst nightmares, Jon Stewart accepted, would one imagine them in any kind of carnal knowledge.
I believed at the time, of course, that the royal family, reproduced by somebody ejaculating like A frog on a crown and somebody else sitting on it, because what is a crown but a hat that lets the rain in?
And the sexual nature of those in power, the fact that power is, in general, a way to act out, usually very destructively in a sexual manner, predatory manner.
But I remember being really shocked, shocked, and not happy exactly, but Eager to see how the disease of power and its most overt forms...
I mean, this isn't a form that people can really understand.
This is, you know, this is predatory.
And I remember thinking, my goodness, I mean, Hillary Clinton, good heavens.
You know, what a staunch feminist.
I mean, I can't remember if the Anita Hill thing had started then or not.
I think it had.
Yeah, I think the Anita Hill thing had gone with Clarence Thomas when the lefties used...
Her testimony that turned out to be nonsense to attempt to oppose his nomination to the Supreme Court.
And all he did was ask her out a couple of times and tell a rude joke.
That was the allegation.
And this, of course, was like light years away from anything like that.
I just remember thinking, wow, people's principles like bear traps are going to spring into action and there is going to be a massive change.
And it really was quite amazing to see how Really nothing happened.
Really nothing happened.
I mean certainly those on the right were vehement and frothy-mouthed in their opposition.
I thought rightly so.
But the silence from the feminists, the silence from the leftists, the silence from his supporters really was quite astounding.
That really was to me the beginning of my curiosity and horror at the diseased emptiness at the heart of Western ethics.
And I will tell you also, that also gave me a great anger towards my society.
I generally felt, like in seeing the thunderclap of absence that followed these predatory behaviors, not even to count the alleged rape from Juanita Broderick and the Paula Jones thing and all of that, where I think it was James Carville who said, It's amazing who you can pick up when you drag $100 on a string through a trailer park.
I didn't see a lot of feminists jump to her defense, just as you don't see a lot of feminists jump to the defense of Sarah Palin.
However, she is abused and catterly opposed by the media.
But I remember thinking, my goodness, my goodness, I saw friends being humiliated for making little flipbook cartoon images in public school textbooks.
I was myself beaten with a cane for retrieving a ball that had gone over a wall in boarding school.
The punishments that were heaped upon children for these tiny infractions, and then to see the degree to which Clinton's, as Ann Coulter puts it, high crimes and misdemeanors, I guess as the Constitution puts it, that Clinton's crimes went unacknowledged, unopposed, and largely supported By the left, which claims to be the conscience of the West, was to me quite astounding.
And I remember feeling, I felt a lot of anger at that time, because I think I really understood, I really understood that ethics were simply used as a tool to humiliate and crush children.
And the ethical rules that were supposed to apply to those in power, most of all, didn't exist, didn't apply, weren't valid, were ignored, were excused.
This isn't even to count other things like the fact that right before the impeachment hearings, Clinton went and bombed Iraq and then stopped bombing the day after the impeachment hearings causing deaths of hundreds of people, not to mention the fact that the Clinton led, I guess Blair led as well, sanctions against Iraq starting in the early 1990s caused the deaths of over a million people, half of them children under five.
The fact that Some poor father in Iraq had to hold his son down while his son's leg was amputated without anesthetic because there was a ban on everything, virtually everything.
It was the harshest sanctions that had been imposed and the sanctions against Iraq, I mean they would have been better off just dropping a nuclear weapon on an Iraqi city every year during the ten years of the height of the sanctions.
The sanctions against Iraq killed more People than all of the weapons of mass destruction in history combined.
So, I mean, of course, that escapes the notice of most people, though some people on the left did criticize it.
But it's like, well, Clinton's a Democrat.
We're on the left.
Clinton upholds Roe v.
Wade and supports affirmative action for women, pay equity and so on.
And so we're going to give him, as I think Gloria Steinem put it, you get a freebie.
I guess you get to molest or rape or harass one woman, and they will look the other way.
And that, of course, isn't what happened.
So I really, I mean, I don't want to get too much into the detail, but I remember that was a time, I mean, I didn't, I remember after I heard that, I didn't sleep for days.
Because my mind was just churning.
I mean, it was churning.
It was like a starving fox after the last rodent under the ground, digging and digging and digging.
Just trying to understand what on earth it meant That all of this hypocrisy was rearing up in society like a great invisible cloud of brain-rotting radiation.
And what it meant that the punishments that were threatened and imposed upon myself among other children were so absolute and so harsh, but then the moment somebody in power does something egregious, everybody looks the other way.
Oh, that made me pissed.
And I think it's part of that energy that still keeps me rolling.
Which is the desire, I mean, which goes all the way back to Socrates, to simply point out the hypocrisy and remind people that the unexamined life, the unexamined life is not only not worth living, it is actively murderous, because then all of the problems and evils within your own nature are projected on others who you then attack and will often kill spiritually or even physically.
So, I just wanted to mention that he's back, the great Bill C. Boomerang is coming back, and it also shows me You know, F. Fitzgerald said there's no second act in American lives.
Well, there wasn't in his because, of course, he was such a raving alcoholic.
But it also shows me that a man can be responsible for the death of millions, can violate all of the politically correct standards that can be imagined, and can return to public life and be welcomed with open arms, for the most part, as does Hillary Clinton.
As does Eliot Spitzer.
And Rob Weiner, I believe, is even going to swing his way from private parts to public places.
And it really is just amazing.
It's just amazing.
We live in this Nietzschean universe where if you don't self-attack and you have power, you really are an unstoppable force.
That all of the ethics are only there to protect evil from virtue.
Because there's only people who have a conscience who self-attack.
And the conscience-less among us, the sociopaths and the psychopaths, Can't be touched for a virtue, but they sure know the power of virtue in maintaining a monopoly on power for themselves.
And this is why I have such a hate on for contemporary ethics and will stop at nothing to replace this corrupt and rotting structure of brain-sucking, soul-eating, child-crushing supposed virtues, which really are just a series of standards in the service of evil.
You are convinced to be good so you don't compete With the monopoly on evil.
You are taught not to ride dragons not because dragons are bad but because other people want to ride them and don't want you to compete with them riding them.
You are taught that sports is bad so that other people can get all of the gold and you are taught that what is called virtue is service to leaders and what is called vice is clear thinking and independent thinking because the leaders don't want you competing with their predatory vampiric ways as they feast on the arteries of society.
So don't fall for the lie of modern morality.
Don't even think about it.
We have to start from scratch all over and build it properly this time.
And no matter how many pigs whose faces are knee-deep in the bloody trough suck in the soul of mankind, no matter how much they squeal and squirm and bite, we press on!
And that's it for my intro.
We got ourselves some questions.
Yes, indeed we do.
First up today, we have Arash.
Hey, Arash.
You have Arash, James?
Are you okay?
Yeah, he's got me.
Hello.
You've probably never heard that joke before from bad jokey whiteys.
Anyway, what's up, my friend?
How can I help you?
Hi, Steph.
Thanks for having me.
My pleasure.
Well, thanks for a lot of things.
Since I found FDR, you've really Reignited my passion for philosophy and that's helped me out a lot over the year.
I've got two questions.
Maybe we can answer one of them at least.
All right.
First one is about going back to this very traditional martial arts school and whether that's a good idea.
And the second one is about trusting professionals with my well-being.
Yeah, I don't know.
Trusting professionals with your well-being?
Go on.
Yeah, that one.
So I'm kind of used to...
Let's start with the second one.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm kind of used to sort of going it alone.
And I'm very skeptical of...
I've a long time been very skeptical of mainstream science and things like, you know, doctors, physicians, therapists, dentists.
And I don't know.
I feel like if I would start seeing them again, because I've stopped going to the doctor for checkups or just for little things, and the martial arts that I mentioned do really help out whenever I feel like I have a problem.
I just kind of do some movements and that seems to take care of the problem.
So, I don't know, how would I deal with that?
Sorry, are you asking me whether you should regularly see a doctor?
Not regularly, but just, you know, I have trouble trusting them, to be honest, and I have trouble trusting them with my own well-being at heart rather than just either doing their thing or trying to get some, you know, Unrealistic advantage out of trying to treat me.
Why don't you trust doctors?
Well, I've always, for a very long time, tried to look into what the general accepted science around physiology and diseases and medicine.
And you always hear a lot of problems and disagreements.
I also looked into the mainstream and, you know, some of it seems to be a lot of quackery, but at other times some of it appears to be more effective, just not very profitable.
Sorry, some of what?
Do you mean sort of prevention and avoidance and alternative medicines and so on?
Exactly, yeah.
Look, I mean, obviously I can't give any kind of medical advice, but of course the whole point of life is to stay away from doctors.
I mean, of course, right?
That's not where we want to go.
But if you get an infection, I think it's a good idea to go.
I mean, I just think it's a good idea to go to antibiotics and so on, right?
So as far as regular checkups go, I don't know.
I mean, I guess it depends on your age, whatever, right?
But it doesn't do any harm to give some blood or whatever, right?
I mean, go and get a bunch of different opinions, do the research and so on.
And look, maybe medicine is bunk, but I personally don't have the time I'm sure there are websites out there that say, you don't need to brush your teeth.
I don't have the time to go and research all of that, and I don't want to take the risk of...
I mean, maybe that's cowardly, maybe it could be higher priority, but There are websites out there that say chemotherapy is just poison.
It's death or whatever, right?
I don't know.
Maybe it is.
Maybe I'll research it if I ever get sick that way.
For me, at least, I can't question everything.
I have picked my battles about what it is that I'm going to question and what it is that I'm going to oppose.
I'm just telling you my thoughts.
Nobody, of course, can tell you what to do.
There's a fair amount of science behind medicine.
There's a lot of double-blind experiments.
And there is a fair amount of science behind medicine.
You can see videos of antibiotics killing harmful bacteria.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So, you know, that kind of stuff is valid.
You can, you know, do those little purple things that you chew and you can see that there's less plaque after the dentist cleans your teeth.
And I think plaque is the thing that causes your gums to recede or whatever, right?
So...
You know, where there's science, I think, I placed, I mean, that's a UPB thing.
I mean, I have to, you know, I can't say UPB is the way.
UPB is an umbrella term for science, but I'm going to reject science.
So, I mean, nutrition seems a slightly different matter.
There's so much that's out there that's up and down, black and white.
Eggs are bad for you, eggs are good for you, bacon is bad for you, bacon is good for you, meat is bad for you, meat is good for you.
I mean, so that's, I'm a little more skeptical about that stuff because there doesn't seem to be quite as much of a consensus, but I would just trust the science.
Nobody trusts doctors.
Doctors are just people.
You don't put your faith in people.
At least outside of your personal relationships.
But you don't.
You don't put your faith in people.
I was telling people, for heaven's sakes, don't put your faith in me.
I hope that I earn people's trust over time and they will not double or triple check everything I say.
But I can always make a mistake.
I can always get bad information and so on.
So, don't put your faith in people.
Put your faith in philosophy, and that means putting your faith in reason and evidence, and so medicine that has legitimate science behind it seems to me something that is worth having in your life, if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I think it does.
I don't know the doctor as soon as I step into the doctor's office, but I guess it's some trust that could be earned or gained after, you know, after time.
Well, I mean, there's ways that you can figure out whether a doctor is trustworthy.
Does the doctor appear to be patient?
Does the doctor answer your questions?
Does the doctor, you know, if you bring in articles that you've read, will the doctor take the time to, you know, I mean, don't have to spend all day because he's got to eat too or she's got to eat too, but will the doctor take the time to answer your questions and apprise you of what's going on?
Is the doctor comfortable with you getting a second opinion?
You know, those kinds of things.
Those are things that you can You can check on, and that can help you to make a more reasonable decision.
Yeah, it's not as big as the first question, I guess, if we still have time.
So, I used to go to this very traditional martial arts school, and we don't We didn't share the same values and one of the reasons I left was my passion for philosophy and I felt that I didn't exactly get as much truth and knowledge, especially about ethics, there as I could.
Would it be a good idea at some point to go back once I sort of advanced in self-knowledge and understanding Well, I'm going to just answer a question with a question.
I don't get the martial arts.
I'm just telling you, not from any principle standpoint, I don't get the martial arts.
I get exercise.
I love to exercise.
Nothing feels better than a good workout.
I just love it.
I love the shower, getting all the sweat off, and you just come out feeling limber and clean and shiny.
I love exercise.
I love sports.
I'm dying for my daughter.
To get old enough to play tennis with me and so on.
I mean, you know, so we can leave behind pickup sticks and all the other non-Olympic sports.
So I love exercise.
I love sports.
I don't get the hitting.
That's the part that I don't get.
Me neither.
To me, martial arts is a kind of boxing.
I don't get why the exercise and why not do dance?
That's as challenging.
That requires the same amount of flexibility and strength and precision, but there's no hitting.
Why not do gymnastics, which is a generally non-contact sport?
I get, you know, and it seems to me, this is just nonsense opinion time as usual, but it seems to me that there's not a lot of people I've talked to about martial arts who have an answer about the hitting thing.
I mean, it just seems to me to come out of some childhood thing that is probably to do with excessive exposure or any kind of exposure really to excessive force that leads people in a perpetual state of fight or flight, low-grade anxiety, And hypervigilance.
And one of the ways that they attempt to manage that is to become proficient in self-defense, which is not the same as acquiring self-knowledge, but it's really managing a symptom rather than the cause.
So if you can explain that to me, I would be really happy to be schooled and corrected on all of this.
And I anticipate the tidal wave of enthusiasts of the martial arts telling me that I just don't get it and so on.
But explain to me the hitting.
Explain to me why the sport has to, like, why you'd be drawn to the hitting part.
Because that's the only thing that differentiated it from all the other sports and exercises that I know of.
Well, I think you're absolutely right about the hitting.
Well, I guess if you really want to learn to fight, there's no other way than to be really thrown into a fight constantly.
But what attracted me to it wasn't the fighting at all.
It was the other exercises that have to do with health.
And they teach it in a way that makes so much more sense than yoga or meditation or even just the science of...
They seem to take certain natural movements and they make certain associations that seem to work out.
For instance, if I cough, it requires a specific movement and it affects the lungs in a certain way.
No, no, but sorry.
When you say that I wasn't attracted to martial arts for hitting, that sounds to me like saying I wasn't attracted to tennis for knocking a ball around and I wasn't attracted to dancing for the music and the rhythm.
I mean, but that's what it is.
It's hitting.
Yes.
I felt there was no other place I could learn about physiology.
When I went there, it was because I wanted to do some sports with some philosophy behind it, and I could choose between yoga and tai chi.
It used to be martial arts, but it's nothing like that anymore.
I kind of got into all of the other things, which was fun until...
The peer pressure came on and they tried to, you know, make me a real martial artist, which I didn't like at all.
But it was the exercise...
But see, martial artist, sorry, martial artist just seems to me a...
It's a euphemism, you know?
I always, you know, the moment euphemisms come around, it's like, burger, burger, danger alert, danger alert.
Like, you don't call a sniper a gun artist, do you?
You don't call a boxer a fist artist.
It's not art.
It's hitting.
Yeah, yeah.
You're a hitter.
You are really good at hitting people.
You're really good at harming people.
Exactly.
You're really good at beating people up.
I mean, isn't that the point?
Yeah, well, there's, I guess, two things they teach there.
One of them is hitting and the other is just It's not even shadow boxing.
It's just a sort of moving meditation.
That's what attracted me.
But the problem is that I don't feel very...
Well, certainly not now.
And I guess my question is whether it would be ever a good time to go back into that environment.
Wait, wait.
Let's go back.
I'm trying to understand this thing.
Sure.
I've never seen a judo competition where they just move around.
Like there's no IT competitions, right?
I've never seen a martial arts movie where they sway back and forth.
I mean, listen, and please understand, I mean, I have some exposure to this.
I did lots of Tai Chi when I was younger, particularly in theater school and so on.
So I studied movement.
I did movement classes.
I did stage fighting.
I did gymnastics.
All of this stuff was in theater school to sort of be a well-rounded performer.
So I'm not, you know, 300 pounds on a potato.
Couch saying, why does anyone do this?
I mean, I really do.
I've been there.
I've never done martial arts myself because, you know, I've experienced enough hitting in my life.
I don't know why I'd want to put myself back in that position.
You know, that's to me like a guy comes out of Iraq saying, hey, let's go do paintball with really realistic sound effects.
It's like, why?
You just, you know, you've got out of all of that.
Well, it really was dangerous and now you're going back to another situation which mimics the same thing.
Why would you want that?
So for me, I never wanted to go back into the hitting.
I mean, you know, I was hit so much as a kid that I just, why would I want to do that again?
And so when you say, well, there's this movement aspect to it and so on, sure, but it really is kind of fundamentally and essentially about the hitting, right?
Because if you take the hitting out, it's not martial arts anymore because the martial part is the clue, right?
Yeah, and you know, even assuming I could avoid the practices where you get hit and all of that or where you learn to hurt other people or even defend yourself and just focus on the moving meditation parts, it's the environment that really makes me a little bit uncomfortable.
It's very traditional.
There's this hierarchy and you know that I'd like to think I could go back and really benefit again from Just health-oriented practices.
I thought, would that be a good thing for my own psychological well-being?
Yeah, look, I mean, again, so what you'd say is that you do the martial stuff, but without any martial stuff.
So you wouldn't do any hitting or any kicking or any whatever, right?
There's classes dedicated to just the meditation, and there's classes dedicated to the actual fighting styles.
Right, yeah, I mean, I think meditation is a fine thing to do.
Sorry, somebody just wrote, both karate and taekwondo, for me, were entirely focused on defense and moral guidelines.
My problem was that the morality was entirely authoritarian.
It was never about offensive hitting, though.
Well, but see, karate competitions, you know, imagine the karate competition, or imagine the Karate Kid movie, and, you know, it's just a UPB joke, but it's an effective one to sort of underscore what I'm talking about.
So, the room is quiet, the lights dim, the Kitaro music flames up, and two men in six-pack cut fighting form stripped to the waist, With Bruce Lee intensity laser stares and quivering arms come out with spear hands and practice monkey gets fruit.
And then the judge says, okay, both of you, on the mat, self-defense, go!
What do they do?
They just stand there.
That is like the worst.
Men standing, not attacking.
Who wins?
I don't know, the guy who stays awake the longest, which certainly won't be in the audience, right?
So that's not...
How it works.
I mean, two guys go piling at each other.
Sure, there's a self-defense aspect, but only because self-defense is part of your martial training.
So, yeah, the people who say it's all about self-defense obviously have never been to a karate or judo match or anything like that.
But everybody, don't hit each other.
Go!
Okay.
Yeah, thanks, Steph.
I guess I'll think about that for a moment.
And, yeah, thanks a lot.
I mean, you might want to try dance.
At least with dance, you can be ready for your wedding.
At least in weddings, there's the first dance, right?
I've not seen a lot of weddings, though I'm sure there are some lunatic weddings involving this, where instead of a first dance, the bride and the groom attempt to break several two-by-fours with their foreheads.
There's a slow-motion Kodak moment for the ages.
So with dancing, you can be cool.
Meet women in clubs, you've got moves, and you get all of the exercise, you get all the flexibility, all of the strength training.
Dance is really hard.
At least as I remember doing it again in theatre school.
You can just do all that.
They don't explain how a movement affects your liver or your lungs or your heart, and when you get sick that you should do this movement, and when you're tired you can do that to feel better.
Well, but you see, then we're back to the science, right?
Because I don't know that martial artists explain that either.
Because remember, they believe in crap like ki, right?
That's true.
Or chai.
And there's a lot of other things I have trouble with.
I guess I wouldn't want to go in that environment and go home again frustrated every night.
Yeah, I would say dance, gymnastics, just regular old sports with some good stretching before and after.
I think those things are great.
I mean, you know, strong body, strong mind.
The consciousness is an effect of the mind.
The mind rests on the health of the body.
And so I would suggest that you try it without them.
Because remember, there's a whole culture.
It's not just you going to do some movements.
There's a whole culture there.
That's my problem.
Yeah, I mean, there's a whole culture there.
And a lot of people are there.
They're crazy.
Right.
I mean, they're crazy in that they don't understand why they're there.
They're crazy in that they believe what they're doing is philosophy.
It's not.
I mean, what Bruce Lee writes about is not philosophy.
That's philosophy like Arnold Schwarzenegger saying, you can't climb the ladder of success with your hands in your pockets.
I mean, that's not philosophy.
That's just a fortune cookie, right?
I mean, it may be true and it's an interesting image in some ways, but it's not philosophy.
That's a motivational t-shirt.
And so they don't know why they're there.
And they have to cover it up with a lot of abstract nonsense to pretend that it is something other than what it is.
The origin of martial arts was to train hitmen.
It was to train professional killers for the ruling class.
And there's not a lot that you can do to pretty that shit up, in my mind.
Thanks, Steph.
I get a general feel for how it would affect me If I were to go back at some point.
I might try it, but it's something I'll stay very expansive about.
It's something I'll have to really look at.
Were you yourself hit as a child?
Yeah, I was.
Yeah, so don't go to martial arts.
Sorry.
I mean, I hate telling people what to do.
Just throw it out if it's bullshit.
Maybe it is bullshit.
But...
That's the kind of answer I expected.
It was more a psychological question.
How would it affect me, sort of my mental state and emotional state?
Yeah, to me, putting yourself back in a situation, it's a Simon the Boxer thing, almost literally, right?
Where you're putting yourself back in a situation where you're trying to master an environment that you couldn't master as a child.
And to me, that's not the right way.
You don't deal with symptoms, you deal with causes.
You get to the emotional root of the issues.
You don't go and play fight to To defend yourself against daddy forever.
I just don't think that's going to work.
Maybe there are people who can do martial arts.
I just don't think it's people who've been hit as children.
I just think going back to a hitting environment, it doesn't seem to me to be very healthy.
But again, that's just my thought.
All right.
Thanks, Seth.
All right.
Thanks, man.
Talk to you later.
Bye.
Sorry, and so people are saying there's two kinds of martial arts, and I hear this all the time.
Yeah, military purposes, civilian self-defense.
Civilian self-defense.
You know what civilian self-defense is?
Don't hang out with dangerous people.
Don't go do dangerous things.
I mean, I have been on my own.
I have been on my own as a fairly emancipated adult, lo these 30 years, from 15 to 45, maybe 46 next month.
And I've never been in a fight.
I don't see the need to spend years training in self-defense.
Again, that has to come from some psychological cause.
That has to come from some historical cause, some emotion, some sort of primal anxiety that is trying to be managed.
The world is really not that dangerous outside of the state and the family.
The world is really not that dangerous.
People say, well, why do you focus on the state and the family?
Well, because...
Those are the only two institutions that have inflicted violence on me.
The state, by definition, and the family, by circumstances.
Not to say all families, but I just don't see.
I mean, I don't walk down the street and have 12 ninjas jump down from the treetops on me on any regular basis, so I don't know about this self-defense.
Anyway, sorry, we have another caller, another question.
Somebody who's, I think, busily chewing peanut brittle in my inner ear canal.
Yeah, so Stephen, why don't you go ahead, since you're unmuted.
Oh, did you just mute?
Sorry.
Excellent.
There was an un in the muted part there.
Steven, you want?
Hey, uh...
Oh, yeah.
Hello.
Hello.
Sorry, I'm making bacon.
This is, um...
Let me...
Sorry, your preparation for calling in to a live show was to...
Make bacon?
No, I'm sorry.
Because there's just not enough static on the internet already.
My apologies.
I'm sorry, Stephen.
You said that you were busy, but you wanted to be added.
We do have someone else on the line that can go, and you can go after him.
Damn it now.
Go on.
I'll bring more bacon later.
Excellent.
Jeff, you're up next.
I'm sorry about that.
Hey, Steph.
Can you hear me?
Oh, man.
You got some nice audio there, brother.
Speak slowly.
Tell me what you're wearing.
Sorry, go on.
You don't want to know.
I really appreciate your show.
I really appreciate everything about the philosophy.
I got one quick question on the side.
Do you accept bitcoins for donations?
I did.
I had a problem with my Bitcoin wallet, which remains unresolved.
So I'm going to sort of resurrect it.
I'm just – I haven't had the time to do what needs to be done to resurrect whatever happened to my wallet.
So at the moment, no.
But, you know, I'm happy to – I mean, assuming I get my coins back, then I'll sort of bring it out again or maybe later.
But no, not at the moment.
Okay, I'm just, a while back I tried to make a donation and my bank wouldn't let me do it across the international borders.
And, you know, it'd just be a lot easier for me.
And I mean, I know everything revolves around me.
But anyway, so let's just stop there.
Yeah, I'm on it.
It's on the list.
You know, after the documentary, I'll look at it.
I've got a corrupted Bitcoin wallet that I need to do something with or something else with or something like that.
So I'll work at it, but not at the moment.
Great.
Alright, thanks.
So, my question is kind of in two parts.
And basically, yesterday, I was listening to one of your podcasts, and it was 2144, I believe, where you talked about how the state will just be recreated in a situation of anarchy.
Do you recall this?
It was just pretty recent.
Was it like just the last couple of days kind of thing?
No, it's on feed 6, so within the last couple of weeks.
Okay, all right.
So anyway, I just have a question about that because you said something in there that just kind of made me think and think and think and think and probably too much.
But the question I have...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're not talking to the right guy about thinking too much, but anyway, go on.
It's not like sex.
You don't need to recharge time.
Anyway, go on.
So what you said is that you're talking about human nature, and you suggested...
No, I was talking against human nature.
Well, okay, so you don't believe in human nature?
No.
Okay, so...
I mean, other than if you say human nature is adaptable.
Well, okay, so that's what I was going to say, because then you said that human nature, or you said people don't have human nature, they adapt.
And couldn't the argument be made that you are making a statement about human nature?
Well, no, because human nature is an argument that is almost always used to make the case that Well, human beings just seek power, and therefore, if you have anarchy, there'll be people seeking power.
Human beings want to dominate other human beings.
Human beings want this.
Human beings are naturally aggressive.
Human beings naturally form into hierarchies.
Human beings, you know, whatever, right?
And so, it's the idea that there's something fixed about the emotional drives or desires of human beings.
And that's like saying it's human nature to speak English.
No.
In fact, it's not even human nature to speak a language.
Because if you're a child raised by wolves in the woods, then you don't ever learn language.
If you miss the language window of sort of 18 to 24 months, you never learn language correctly.
There's a human potential to use language and a potential for that language to be English.
Yes.
But it is not—it is so—people look at lots of people around them speaking English, and they say, damn, English is human nature!
It's like, no, it's not.
Christianity is not human nature, right?
There is the beyond-explanatory miracle that children raised in Christian households tend not to become Zoroastrians or Janists or— Muslims, but they tend to become Christians.
So we are adaptable to our environment, that seems to be.
But that's not the same as saying that there's human nature.
There's human potential in that.
But I don't think we can say it's human nature.
As far as language is concerned, it feels a little bit like human nature because we learn it so young and we don't remember learning it.
No, but it's not human nature.
Sorry, as I said, if we are not exposed to language, we never learn it.
Yes, of course, of course.
Something like eating food, though, we have to eat food to live.
Would you put that in the same category as non-human nature?
Well, that's not specific to human beings, right?
I mean, worms have to eat to live.
Is it worm nature?
I mean, it's a biological requirement.
It's not usually what people mean by human nature.
What they mean is that there's an emotional predisposition or drive in humanity, and that society reflects That emotional drive in people, right?
So people, there are natural leaders and natural followers and that's why we have a state.
Or human beings are naturally aggressive and that's why there's crime and rape.
So it's saying that society is a shadow, a mere shadow of the statue called human nature.
And what that is, is then it says anyone who tries to change society It's trying to change human nature and then you are accused of utopianism.
Like the communist thing.
The reason communism can work is that we can fundamentally reshape human nature and everyone will cooperate and they won't want property and they won't be greedy and so on.
This is the idea of the utopianism that goes on in the world.
So what people do is they say, well, you're trying to change the shadow By moving the statue.
Because the state or religion or bullying in schools or hierarchies within companies or bosses and followers and so on, this is all human nature.
And it's a shadow cast by this immovable mountain called human nature.
You say, well, I want to change the shadow.
So I'm going to push it.
I'm going to...
I'm going to sprinkle fairy dust on it.
I'm going to backfill it with hose.
And people say, well, no, because the mountain can't be moved and everything that is in the world is a reflection or is a shadow cast by the mountain.
Yeah, yeah.
And so that's generally what the human nature argument is.
And it is intellectually an extremely ill-informed, contradictory, and frankly pitiful theory.
I'm not saying this is your theory.
No, absolutely not.
But saying the state results from human nature, it only takes literally about a second thought, and not even much thought, to say, well, wait a second.
Is it human nature to be a leader, or is it human nature to be a follower?
Because if they're both human nature, then we have opposites, right?
And therefore you can't claim that it's human nature.
Yeah, yeah.
So with regards to that, I was having a discussion...
Sorry, sorry.
I'm so sorry.
Let me just finish one other point I wanted to mention and then I apologize for interrupting you.
But the other thing that's so ridiculously obvious is that if there was such a thing as human nature, why is there such a thing as propaganda?
If it is simply human nature to love Western quasi-free market democracy, then why, oh why, do we need to stuff children in these mental cages called public schools for 12 years and indoctrinate the living shit out of them, hour after hour, day after day, if it's just human nature?
That's like saying, well, you know what?
It's human nature for teenagers to want to have sex.
But what we need to do is show them porn for 10 years beforehand.
I mean, no!
If it's human nature, you're wasting the porn time.
So the other question I have, which is kind of a tie-in to that.
So I was listening to a radio show a while back, and he was talking about the human nature between conservatives and liberals and libertarians, he threw in there.
And he said that human nature for Liberals basically believe that people are good, which I think is complete nonsense.
He said that conservatives believe that people are basically bad.
I can kind of see where he comes from.
And then he says libertarians believe that people are basically bad and that they want people to basically come up, rise up to the top, the good people to rise up to the top.
And, well, basically they want a power structure that's based in corporations.
It is complete nonsense, but the point is...
Well, sorry, I agree with you about the right-wingers.
I mean, if we associate...
Right-wingers like these.
If we associate right-wingers with religiosity, which is not an unfair association, it's not obviously perfect, then clearly, if you're a Christian, man's nature is fallen.
Yeah.
And, of course, man's nature is not fallen.
Man's nature is pushed over by parents, teachers, and preachers, for the most part, those who fall.
But, so, for the right-wingers believing that humanity is immoral, But I mean, you know, there's this whole controversy in the Air Force at the moment about the level of religious conformity and indoctrination that is going on in that environment.
And, I mean, it's crazy.
I mean, it's absolutely crazy.
And this is one of the things I'm skeptical about, not just with Christianity, but with all forms of religiosity, is that they've had about 5,000 years to put into practice, thou shalt not kill.
And...
It's not working.
You know, after 5,000 years of trying to put into practice thou shalt not kill, we have the bloodiest century of murder in human history, which is the 20th, and now into the 21st.
And the very fact that there are a bunch of Christians in the Air Force means there's at least one commandment that they are more than happy to ignore, and which no Christian priest appears to be willing to call them on.
Lots of pastors in the Military, lots of study groups in the military.
And it would seem to me that if you're in the military, your study group would actually be pretty quick.
Oh, shit, I missed that one.
Thou shalt not kill.
I'm out of here.
Yeah.
But no.
Anyway.
So anyway, I called the guy.
And basically, kind of tying back to the idea that human...
Tying back to the idea that humans are adaptable, in a different way of saying that, and tell me if I'm wrong about this, I called and I told him that that's not the case about human nature, but that people basically respond to incentives.
So if you give people the incentive to do something good, then they will respond to that, and if you give them the incentive to do something bad, then they will respond to that.
Would you consider that a true concept?
I do not.
I do not agree with that.
I mean, the one that pops into mind, and I know whoever brings up Hitler loses, but let's create an exception for the moment.
What incentive did Hitler have to start World War II? I mean, he was rich.
Well...
Bechtesgarten was a beautiful country cottage.
He had Eva Braun, who was obviously insane and evil, but, you know, relatively hot if you look past the smoky black satanic heart.
He had everything that he could possibly dream of for somebody who wanted power and wealth and fame and prestige.
He had everything.
There was no need for him to start a war.
Objectively, yes.
Sorry, you say objectively like there's some other standard that we're working with.
But according to the views of fairies, it makes perfect sense.
What I'm saying is he's got a history from his childhood which has mishmatched his brain in a certain way.
Or even the Colorado shooting.
People who do bad things for assuming no reason, they have a reason for doing that.
We just don't really know it from the outside.
Well, no, but when you say people respond to incentives, that's not quite the same as saying people have reasons for what they do.
In economics, incentive is usually an external thing.
If the price of an iPad is cut in half, lots more people will buy it.
Of course.
It usually doesn't mean your conscience or your childhood traumas or whatever it is.
In economics, usually, as far as I understand it, the term...
So if you say, well, people will respond to incentives, well, there's some truth in that, of course, but...
That doesn't mean that it is only external incentives which drive people.
I mean, people...
I mean, a lack of self-knowledge turns people into machines of history, and it is usually traumas of history that shield people or cause self-knowledge to be self-hidden from people.
So I think...
I mean, and whether people are naturally good or naturally evil or this or that, I mean, even that statement, of course, doesn't...
The question of whether people are good or evil doesn't matter.
It doesn't really matter if you don't have a state.
The only reason that people ever use the human nature argument is because there's a state, and therefore because we are in a state, we have to rely on the whim of the majority, and therefore it's pretty important to figure out what human nature is because that's the way the majority is going to go.
Yeah, sure.
But, you know, when I was in business, I only really cared about the purchasing habits of people in my industry.
When I was selling monster software packages to Fortune 500 companies, I really didn't care how many people bought yo-yos in Thailand.
I think we only fundamentally really care about this question because we live in this mob rule democracy.
As to whether people are good or bad, I believe I believe that people are naturally good for the same reason that I believe that a three-year-old can catch a ball, because we're really, really, really good at universalizing, at conceptualizing.
That's the differentiator between us and the rest of the natural universe as we know it.
And ethics is universalization.
That's all it is.
And so in the same way that my daughter can sort of identify a horse that she's never seen before because she understands the Aristotelian essence and characteristics and all of that, she knows what universal moral rules are and she's very good at attempting to use them for her own advantage at the moment.
Oh no, I shouldn't say that.
That's unfair.
She's really good at that and she's got a huge amount of empathy, right?
So we were watching a Matt Damon film She hasn't watched films really all summer, but I like Matt Damon.
He's a fine actor.
I love that sort of catalytic, brutal boxer's face that has, I think, surprising capacities for tenderness and his range as an actor, of course.
It's fantastic.
But in it, we had to turn it off because one character says asshole, another character says shit, and another character kicks a snake.
And so this all happened very rapidly.
I had to turn it off.
And...
I don't know what family films mean to some directors, but it's a little different than it is for me.
And so she immediately was like, oh, I would grab that snake, I would give him a Band-Aid and a kiss and some juice, and I would play with him to make him feel all better.
And so that is...
And how does she know that?
Because, you know, if she falls and gets an owie, this is what we do.
Now, if we had yelled at her and hit her for getting hurt and told her, you know, just tossed her a box of Band-Aids, would she say...
If she sees someone kicking a snake, I will give that snake a hug and a kiss and make him feel a lot better.
Well, of course she wouldn't.
Any more than she would know what the word snake is in Mandarin if she'd never been exposed to it.
So, I mean, I was sure that human nature was adaptable before.
I am unbelievably more sure that human nature is adaptable now because I see it every single time I interact with my wonderful daughter.
Yeah, and I would agree with that.
So, those were just a couple of questions that were mulling around in my mind, and I really appreciate the time and the call.
Right.
And it's not utopianism to say that children adapt to their environment.
That is, I think, about as well established as anything can be.
With the knowledge that we have in the fields of the social sciences of psychology and so on.
It is enormously well established.
And so it's not utopianism at all to say that if you teach a child...
It's not utopianism to say children learn the language spoken in the household.
That's not utopianism.
Anybody who questions that doesn't bother you because they've never learned a language.
They're miming something.
Anyway, thanks for your time.
I appreciate it.
Great, great questions, and I do love me some human nature arguments.
All right.
Yes, guest AA1F. Oh, that's an unfortunately named person.
I guess that your parents knew from birth that you weren't going to be liking in the chat room as much.
Please, go ahead.
This is actually the Jehovah's Witness.
Oh no, no, let's skip him.
Sorry.
Sorry, sorry.
My forehead is still heating from the last cheese grater attempt.
Yeah, unfortunately we don't have anyone else on the line.
Do we have any questions from the chat window?
We did have some...
Somebody contacted me earlier about a question...
Let me grab the link off the board.
Nobody dreams at night anymore?
I tell you, while James is doing that, I can tell you.
So I had this dream, I don't know, a week or two ago, about swimming, and snakes were coiled up in the bottom of a beautiful, clear, crystal mountain stream, like mountain river.
I was swimming, and the snakes coiled up and lapped up like Polaris missiles and flew over me and then landed And they dove so cleanly into the water, you know, like those Olympic swimmers that they just barely left a ripple.
And there were other things that happened in the dream that were just...
It was intense and cool.
I was kind of scared of the snakes, but they were beautiful and the environment was beautiful and so on.
So, you know, I always ask Isabella if she had any dreams and all that.
We talk about those and she asked me if I had dreams and I told her the dream.
And she immediately wanted to act it out.
So, you know, I sort of belly flopped on the...
On the carpet and she pretended to be a coil snake who then jumped over me and we basically went through the whole dream probably five or six times.
And I mean, I tell you, it's kind of surreal but a wonderful thing.
It's surreal but very cool to be enacting a dream that you had the morning of it with your daughter.
It's really cool.
She is just so much fun.
So I've pasted the questions to the chat.
Okay.
Approach computer!
Oh, I've also...
Sorry, I hate to waste electronics, and since I got a free upgrade on my cell phone, I have an Asus A100 tablet, which I'm going to sell for, I don't know, $170 or whatever.
It was $300 new.
I got a It's a $50 case and a 16-gig card on it.
It's good front and back cameras, 720p, 8 gigs of memory internally, 16 and externally.
If anybody wants to buy it, just shoot me an email or whatever, host at freedomradio.com, and I will ship it to you.
I just hate stuff lying around, not being used.
And I'll sign the back and maybe throw a couple of books on it or whatever.
All right.
I have a question about UPB. How would you analyze the rule, nobody should have sex?
I guess I wouldn't analyze the rule, I would analyze the ruler, right?
So first thing you do in UPB is you analyze the ruler, right?
The person who's making the rule.
And so somebody says nobody should have sex, what they're saying is I should not exist.
But rather than end their own existence, they are telling you that there's a rule called nobody should have sex.
So I would say to the person, do you not understand that there's a contradiction?
If you're saying nobody should have sex, then you're saying that nobody should be alive.
But you are alive and you're choosing to stay alive and so on.
And see if the person understood that contradiction.
And the other thing that's true, so let's see, nobody should have sex.
Okay, well that passes the coma test unless you've got some really, really kinky and disturbed night nurse.
And so it passes the coma test because a coma victim isn't having a whole lot of sex.
And...
Unless their coma dreams are entirely sex-based, in which case it's internal, and they'll just signal you as hard as they can to never wake them up.
But the rule, nobody should have sex.
Yeah, well, okay, so then the question is, if nobody should have sex, then that's a rule that is, if it's UPB, then it's virtue, it's ethics, and therefore it's enforceable, and therefore if somebody...
If two people are having sex, then you can initiate the use of force to prevent them from having sex, though they themselves are not initiating the use of force to have sex with each other.
And so then you have another rule called, I can initiate the use of force against peaceful citizens, in which case everyone can initiate the use of force against peaceful citizens, in which case you can't both achieve...
Your goal, because if you attempt to use force to prevent people from having sex, then you're initiating the use of force against peaceful citizens, but you are not peaceful, and therefore they can't initiate the use of force against peaceful citizens against you because you're not being peaceful, therefore it can't be universalized.
Oh, flew through that Death Star Trench with nearly, barely nipping a wing, so woohoo!
Look at that.
I think that's not so bad.
Okie dokie.
The question is, who sets the standards for UPB? Well, that's like saying who sets the standards for math, reality, objectivity, consistency, logic, reason.
These are not somebody's, you know, it's not like a bad set of human laws.
Sorry, I missed the question though, didn't I? Is there another question?
Is that right?
Yeah.
Dream analysis?
No, not the dream analysis.
Oh, here's the link.
Oh, a link!
Okay, I can do that.
Lincoln, I copy-pasted the question after that.
Alright, so as someone who isn't well-read on relativism and fractional utility, I know I do this a lot, and here you mention this as a lesser way to live.
What is it like to live relativistically and by utility, for example, and how do you live in principle?
Also, what are some examples of living principally as well as reasons to keep you motivated?
It's the problem I see with living principally.
Can't you just make principles that are relativistic?
I will temporarily shut off this or that principle, which I guess wouldn't make it a principle until I asked an answer.
Well, those are great questions.
I think the first thing to recognize is there is great pleasure in living relativistically because the world is the way that it is.
So I think that's the first thing to understand that to live by principle Is to tell the truth and to universalize and so on.
And that is very challenging because most people do what society expects of them, right?
They live small.
They are mammals, tiny mammals under the feet of the giant dinosaurs of history.
They conform.
They bow down.
They have their spirits broken and in turn...
We'll break the spirits of others.
And they call this virtue.
Conformity to power is called virtue.
The inevitability of obedience to a forced regime is called virtue.
And there's great pleasure in that.
There's great pleasure in that.
Conformity is a very, very sweet wine.
It's true, it will rot your teeth, i.e.
your capacity for assertion, if not necessary aggression.
But it is very sweet, and you can get by in life quite well by being a conformist.
I mean, Ayn Rand and others have consistently condemned conformism, but to condemn conformism as just bad and negative and so on is to say that human beings are generally insane.
I don't think human beings...
Human beings are practical.
They're morally insane.
But they're socially practical.
Which, you know, with the society we live in, these two are moral sanity and social sanity are sort of opposite poles.
So I think the first thing to recognize is that there's a great deal of pleasure in living relativistically.
Because when you have relativism, and you had this impulse in the sort of second statement before you corrected yourself, just, you know, turn on and turn off principles as you see fit.
Well, there's a great deal of pleasure in that.
Because when you're with people who like to party, you can be a party animal.
And when you're with people in a book club, you can be a book club animal.
And then when you're a political rally, you can cheer those people.
And then you can go with the sports team and cheer those people and so on.
And there are so many positions that are anti-philosophical or a-philosophical that are widely and wildly praised by society, right?
Going and cheering a local sports team will get you almost no negative glances in the world.
And so there's great...
Payoffs in inventing ethics that make whatever you're doing right.
It's like having a sailboat and having a giant fan behind it.
Oh, I want to go this way?
Great, I'll turn the fan.
You never have to tack, you never have to figure out how to sail against the wind, which is sort of the same thing.
So I think it's really important to understand that if you have the magic happy happy joy brain juice called whatever I do is right in the moment, Life becomes, well, quite easy and quite pleasant in a way.
I'm not, you know, it's not for me because there are too many sacrifices to conformity.
So, let me sort of give you an example.
To be for public school is like being for puppies.
You know, I mean, So being for public school is not a radical position, that is a mainstream position.
To be against public school is a radical, alarming, disturbing position, right?
So conforming with the social prejudice for public school, and again, I really dislike the terms public and private.
You know, we don't say that rape is just public lovemaking, and lovemaking is private.
Rape, right?
It's force or no force, right?
So if you're for coercive schools, that is not a radical position.
Now, that gains you significant comfort, pleasure, happiness, pats on the back, no funny looks, no questions, no skepticism, no glasses of wine paused at the mouth with, huh, coming out of people's mouths, no whispers behind your back, no slander, no scorn.
No questions, no avoidance, none of these things.
And so conformity works really well horizontally among adults.
But the only way, and this is the great challenge that I'm fighting and will spend the rest of my days fighting, the great challenge, of course, is that conformity can only be survived by you.
Conformity can only not step on the bear trap World War One mind click of a bad conscience if you completely and totally poof!
Erase children from your mind.
Being for a public school is fine as long as you forget How harmful it is to children.
As long as you erase children from society, conformity feels fine.
And this is why society is so predatory on children.
Whether it's as collateral for national debt, whether it's as hostages for public sector unions, whether it's as convenient pawns to move around during divorce proceedings, whatever you name it.
As long as you're willing to throw children under the bus of conformity, you will not experience it as a bumpy ride.
If you're willing to throw children under the bus of conformity, it's not even a bumpy ride.
And so, let's say that you take great pleasure in the Middle East and you were raised a Muslim and you're going to take your kids to the imam, to the madras and The mosque and so on.
Well, you're going to get great pleasure out of that, right?
Because people are, ah, good for you, mazel tov!
Okay, sorry, my culture's just touched and exploded.
But, I mean, it's going to be pleasurable for you and positive for you.
But all you have to do is not think about what your children want and what is actually good for their developing minds.
Right?
And so, that is...
The essence of how conformity works.
Conformity only works among adults if it erases what children actually need and what is healthy for them and what is good for them.
And so the more people conform as adults, the more they have to erase the needs and preferences, desires and that which is good for their children and the degree to which children are completely shafted to an unprecedented level in history, at least financially and in terms of marital stability, the degree to which Society is shafted.
Sorry, the degree to which children are shafted in society is the degree to which we are conformists, right?
So you can be for democracy and not an anarchist.
You can be for democracy and who's going to say, oh my God, you're for democracy?
What, do you just hate children?
I mean, look, they're all being born hundreds of thousands in dollars in debt, pointed at the more of hateful, brain-rotting, communist, authoritarian public schools.
Are you kidding me?
Two-thirds of them separated from their parents three or four or five years of age.
One-third of them babies sent to daycares so that both people can go to work and pay off the tax.
Man, are you kidding me?
Do you just hate the young?
Is that why you're for democracy?
Because that's what democracy is doing to them, selling off their future labor and value for the sake of bribing political friends in the here and now.
People don't say that.
Oh, democracy, of course.
I mean, that's the end of history.
Democracy has won.
Oh, boy, has it ever won.
So, yeah, the pleasures of conformity are great, are fantastic, wonderful.
But I would argue that if you are heavily conformist to contemporary social norms, you are a shitty parent.
On two levels.
One, you're sacrificing the needs of children to maintain your own conformity with the irrational and destructive beliefs of others around you.
And secondly, you are providing an example which you desperately do not want your child to emulate.
So if you as a parent are so incredibly influenced by your peers that you will sacrifice your child's interest in order to keep peace in your church, in your community, in your family, in your Social circle, wherever it is.
Well, then when your child becomes a teenager and has absorbed that lesson and then becomes incredibly influenced by his peers, what are you going to say?
Shouldn't be influenced by your peers.
That's wrong.
Stand up for yourself.
Have integrity.
Oh, boy.
What happens then?
Well...
Now, I mean, of course, given the way the world is, there are challenges being an independent, critical, philosophical, rational parent as well.
That you're embedded in this culture and blah blah blah.
But anyway, that's a necessary transition point.
So I just wanted to point that out.
If you align yourself with the prejudices of society, you live a fairly easy life as an adult.
But the ease of your adult life is paid for in the souls of either your children or your children and all the other children around.
Alright.
So, did we have any other questions or comments?
Yes, we do.
Mr.
Bacon is back.
Baconator, what's up?
Sorry, I ate the bacon.
Oh, man.
You know what?
I can actually smell it through my headphones.
I got the special Warcraft cordite smelling headphones, so I actually get...
Oh, man.
Did you just pass wind?
Oh, let's move on.
Let's keep going.
I'll just stand aside a little bit.
Yeah, I like those headphones, but I don't like where you have to put them.
It's a bit of a shame.
You do get a lot of bass, though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, I have a dream if you'd like to do a dream.
I would love to do a dream.
It's been, gosh, months and months since we've done a dream.
So, let's dream it!
Oh, that's why he gets paid so much.
Sorry, go on.
Man, that hurt.
So, it's been a while since we've talked.
Oh, yeah, no kidding.
It's been a while since we talked.
It's been like about a year.
And these last couple weeks have been absolutely insane.
I've been trying to find an apartment and trying to find work, and I think this has something to do with the dream.
And the day before, just to give a little bit of the history, I was going to go check out an apartment, but I was real stressed out about it.
Not motivated to go but I was kind of forcing myself to anyway and then I was just decided I was just gonna go back and like sit down and kind of meditate just kind of clear my head and that was the first time I had tried that since this recent stress pileup and so I did that and then didn't end up going went to sleep and had this dream so if I can give any more details let me know Got it.
And so this was, sorry, let me just make sure I get the setup.
So you're looking for work, looking for apartment, kind of stressed about stuff, and you're sort of meditating on it, and then was this a nap or was this an overnighter?
This was an overnighter.
You're under 30, right?
Yes.
Okay, so naps are in your future.
Got it.
All right, so then let's...
I take one every once in a while.
Oh, good.
Okay.
Well, you know, it's a warm-up.
You don't want to just start napping when you get over 30, but...
Alright, so I had a dream.
I was in the car with my best friend from elementary school who I still keep in contact with every once in a while and my best friend from high school who I really don't talk to nearly as much.
And we were in the car traveling through Nevada on a road trip sort of thing.
And I remember we did a whole bunch of stuff, but that part didn't stick.
And eventually we go to an underground car wash underneath a big high-rise building.
And we're going to go get the car washed and we all get out of the car and Bob, let's call him the best friend from high school and Joe will be the best friend from elementary school.
Bob grabs a suitcase sized electronic thing with a big button on it and I immediately recognized it as a bomb and everybody starts running and he throws it on the ground and says something threatening and I run up.
It's a giant high-rise building so I start running up the stairs because the entrance that we came in from was blocked off.
So I run up the stairs, and it's like several stories.
I get to the top, and there's all these sails, like sails, like just hanging, you know, a decorative, I would assume, but sails, hundreds of sails everywhere.
You mean sort of sail signs?
No, no, sails like on a ship.
Oh, sales!
I'm thinking mall sales.
Yeah, just giant, hundreds of giant sales just everywhere.
It's kind of beautiful.
That's at the top floor, and I'm looking at them, and then I go back down, down the other way.
So on the ceiling, is it a shopping mall?
Is it a mall?
On the roof, there's all these sales, is that right?
Yeah, it's up above the roof a little bit.
It looks decorative.
That's beautiful.
I mean, that's a lovely image.
Yeah, it really is.
And I remember I was kind of like looking at it for a while and then I was like, oh yeah, there's a bomb in the building.
And so I started, because what I figured in the dream was I would go up one side and then go back down the other side because all the entrances on the very bottom were closed down for some reason.
And so I start heading back down the other side, down the stairs, down all these hundreds of flights of stairs.
And near the bottom, I run into Joe.
Sorry, but hundreds of flights of stairs, because a mall doesn't have hundreds of flights of stairs.
So that's a bit of a...
Yeah, that's an exaggeration.
There's a bit of a temporal shift here, right?
Is that right?
It seemed like a lot.
I don't know exactly how many.
I think I'm a bit...
Sorry, not temporal.
A spatial shift.
Like you're going down more stairs than would make sense in the building.
Is that right?
Yeah, it's a lot of stairs.
It's a lot more than you would assume for that kind of place.
And I get down near the bottom and I see Joe, who is the best friend from elementary school.
And he's sitting on the other side, like where I went up, behind these bars.
And he's sitting there.
And he would have to go up and then down the way I came.
And I ask him what he's doing there, and all he tells me is that Bob wants to speak to me.
And I'm like, fuck that in my head, and I just keep going down.
Because Bob had the bomb, right?
Yeah, Bob had the bomb.
And so I don't go speak to him, and I just keep going down the stairs and then get out.
And then the building explodes, and...
And in the end, like, I guess I had called my parents and asked them to come and pick me up, like, to help me out, because obviously this had happened, and...
Got no car, right?
It blew up at the building?
Yeah.
And they come, and we go to see a movie or something, and that's when I tell them, and the last thing I remember of the dream is I'm sitting in the movie theater, and I'm, like, crying my eyes out, because it's like, these were two old friends, and it was a disaster.
And, um...
I tell them and then I wake up.
Right.
Right.
Wow, cool.
And have you seen either of these two young men recently?
I recently took a whole bunch of people off of my Facebook account because I just didn't speak to them.
It was like, why have them there?
And these were two of the people that I decided to keep on there.
Other than that, I had a conversation with Joe that was about the bomb.
Actually, interestingly, it was about the bomb in the brain series.
I showed him that and we were discussing it.
Sorry, which one, Bob or Joe?
Joe, the elementary school friend.
Ah, okay, okay.
Yeah, I didn't get that, you know, bomb.
Yeah, yeah, I didn't get that connection.
Got it.
No, I'm sure that doesn't...
Okay, okay, okay.
All right, all right.
Okay, so does Joe, the guy who you showed the bomb in the brain series to, do you think he has any secrets about his childhood?
Do you think he has...
What do you think his childhood was like?
I think it was...
I think it was...
Man, oh man, that just got me into can't speak mode.
That got me into don't go there mode instantly.
Hey, occasionally I throw something over the...
I threw a dart over a house and hit a bullseye.
Yeah, I believe I've seen that before.
Oh, boy.
I mean, my immediate sentence was that it was a lot worse than I, you know, I would go and visit him and stuff, but I, it, from, oh, I'm fogging like a Fog.
And you know, those are the kinds of metaphors you come up with when you're fogging.
Yes.
I'm fogging like something that has fog in it, like my head with the fog.
There's fog somewhere.
Hey, fog, fog, foggity fog.
Yes.
Fog off.
Okay.
So, okay, so what, I mean, because you saw his childhood, obviously you were friends when you were kids.
He's the guy from junior school, from elementary school.
So I guess that's what, 9 to 12 or 9 to 11 or whatever, right?
So what was the story with his home life?
Well, I remember, like, his parents seemed, as a child, you know, his parents seemed a lot, I'm fogging, like meaner, like angrier, like they would just kind of pick on him, you know, like they would...
Like nag him kind of thing or put him down?
No, like put him down.
Like little, like, oh, Jared, you're so stupid kind of things.
Like, not like yelling, but...
It's not actually very little.
That's quite a lot.
Yes, yes, yes.
And...
And what else?
It's amazing that I didn't think about this stuff.
Well, I'm like jumping from thing to thing and I don't know which to bring up.
It's really interesting.
But it was bad.
I mean, we don't have to go into huge details, right?
Yeah, it wasn't good.
It wasn't good.
It wasn't good at all.
All right.
Well, I'm obviously sorry to hear that.
So, okay, so I think we'll have to skip the beginning bit because you can't remember what happened on the road trip to Nevada.
But then you go to the car wash, right?
The car wash is at the bottom of a shopping mall, right?
It's underground.
It's underground, right?
It's at the root, it's at the base.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Right, so you're going in to where it's dark and where it's deep and where it's cleansing.
This is truth in the unconscious, right?
I'm sorry, you kind of cut off at the end there.
Sorry, this is truth in the unconscious.
It's dark, it's deep, it's cleansing.
Okay.
Does that make sense?
Like a car wash, right?
Yeah, I mean, it does.
There seems to be a kind of sea thing going on, or a lake thing going on, because a car wash, of course, is water, and at the top is sails, right?
Yeah.
Was there any associations with ships, or the sea, or that sort of form of travel?
Toy boats...
Anything like that?
None.
None that I can recall.
None.
Okay.
Well, we'll see if we can get there from here.
So that's good.
We'll cross it off the list.
Okay.
So he's got this electronic thing.
And you recognize it as a bomb, right?
Yes.
And you run away up the stairs.
Yes.
Is that because he's got the bomb and he wants to blow things up?
Yes.
How do you know?
Maybe he found the bomb.
Well, a lot of it was the immediate panic of the other characters in the dream that I didn't know.
A lot of it was that they just...
Okay, so what I'm saying is he's not standing there saying, I've got a bomb and I'm taking this whole mall down, right?
No, it was that and it was also...
So he could have found the bomb, right?
Yeah.
Okay, but you, you run away.
And, I might add, not very intelligently.
You know, in the dream.
If someone has a bomb in a building, going to the top floor does not seem to me to be the best.
I've never been in this situation, but putting myself in this situation, I really can't imagine that that's the wisest.
I've never heard, you know, you find yourself...
In the bottom of a building with a bomb, and you can just walk outside.
What you want to do is go to the roof.
Because that way, if the bomb goes off, you have further to fly.
I couldn't walk outside.
The entrance that we came in from was closed off.
The gate had come down.
But there was no other exit?
That I don't know.
But there was no other exit you could see in the dream?
There was no other exit I was aware of, no.
And how was it closed off, do you remember?
It was like the gate that they would bring down when it's closing time, you know, like one of those roll-up gates, you know?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay, okay.
So then you run all the way to the top and there are these sails.
Yeah.
And it was beautiful.
Was it a blue sky?
Yeah, it was beautiful.
Yeah, that's the image I got, like white sails and a blue sky.
Yeah, just kind of going up and down.
Like these giant shark fins going across the top of the building, right?
Yeah.
And was it wind?
Yeah, it was like a slight breeze and it was like I got stuck there for a minute and kind of got distracted from what I was doing.
So it was...
Sorry to interrupt.
Were they actual sails or were they sheets or art exhibits that looked like sails or were they actual sails?
Either they were sails, except they were just pure white, or they were very close, like very similar to sails.
Like, I couldn't tell the difference.
Yeah, because, I mean, there is a contradiction there, right?
Obviously, sails are there to help propel something on water, and this is a building, right?
So, there's no propulsion that's possible there, right?
Just anti-propulsion.
Well, yeah.
I mean, not anti.
No, I guess anti, yeah.
It's just nothing...
And they weren't...
Because they could have been electric-generating fans or whatever, or flags or something, but they were sails for a boat that is attached to a building.
Yeah, to me it seemed decorative, but I didn't really know.
So then you ran up, like, what, five flights of stairs, and then you said you were going down hundreds of stairs, right?
That I think I was just using a...
Oh, it was hyperbole.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think it was...
It was a lot going up and it was a lot going down.
I don't think it was...
Okay, so then you go back down.
Sorry to keep interrupting, but you go back down because you want to get out of the building, right?
Yes.
And then Bob says Joe wants to speak to you?
No, Joe says Bob wants to speak to me.
But Bob wasn't the one with the bomb.
No, Bob was...
Bob with the bomb...
Oh, Bob was the one with the bomb, but Joe was the one who you showed the bomb in the brain to.
Yeah.
Okay, and what do you think Bob's childhood was like?
Oh, Bob...
I had recently visited him, and he...
He sat me down and specifically told me that...
Like, it turns out his father was a child molester.
This is why his parents got divorced, and...
It must have been really horrific because we used to watch a bunch of your videos.
We used to be very interested and he had seen the bomb in the brain before and something dropped off.
But he said it very matter- Sorry, what do you mean something dropped off?
We stopped talking.
We had an argument and We kind of just lost touch and I went and traveled and he moved to Oregon.
And was he himself, did he say whether he himself had been molested by his father?
He did not say that, no.
It was bad because he had told me that it was horrible because he didn't even know if his mom was lying or not because his mom had told him this.
And That they got divorced and he couldn't even tell if it was true or if his mother had just said that to him to get him to hate his father because they were divorced and all this kind of stuff.
It was horrible to me and I think I just cried.
But for him, he said it so matter-of-factly.
It kind of scared me a bit.
It was really strange.
Yeah, because if somebody tells you something horrible in a matter-of-fact way, you have to do the feeling for them, right?
Yeah, and that's quite a burden.
Okay.
Okay, so Bob says that, so Joe says Bob wants to talk to you and you're like, screw that, and you, because you think there's still a bomb going off, right?
Yes.
Then the building explodes with them in it, I assume.
Yes.
To your knowledge.
Yes.
And your parents meet you and you go and see a movie and then you tell them what happened and you're crying your eyes out at the end, right?
Yeah.
In the theater specifically.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay, do you want my thoughts?
Yes.
Sorry, that's a rhetorical question.
You're going to get my thoughts.
You're going to even have to hang up.
All right.
So I will tell you what I think the dream is about, and then you can tell me if it makes any sense to you.
Sounds good.
Everybody has difficulties in their childhood.
You mentioned that you had some.
Have you talked to other friends that you had when you were a child about difficulties that you had as a child?
Just these two.
I think these were the only two that I went anywhere near that subject with.
Nobody else.
I thought it would be very anywhere near helpful.
And what was their response?
For Joe, it's like immediate...
It's like not even listening.
It's like immediate...
Because I'm not trying to find a solution necessarily.
But for Joe, he's very smart.
He's actually becoming a philosophy teacher.
It's really interesting.
So he's a smart dude.
For him it's like, I'm sorry I'm going into Fogland, you know, for him it's like he'll automatically take the statement all the way to its conclusion and then just attack the conclusion.
You know, it's...
What?
No, no, no, no.
I'm not talking about statements and conclusions.
I'm talking about what was their response to you talking about difficulties in your childhood.
Okay.
Sorry, just trying to reach through the fog.
I'm like Flint Lockwood coming through the Jell-O wall in Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs.
Follow me.
I'm very glad it's just, you know, it's difficult.
No, I understand that it's difficult.
But so, if I can cut to the chase, it was not met with warm empathy and curiosity and it did not turn into a long-lasting conversation.
Is that fair to say?
No, it was more like get over it in different terms.
Right.
Right.
You know, you have showed me your horrible scar.
I hope that it heals, but I really don't want to look at it again because I might be eating, right?
Yes.
Okay.
You know that's the most common reaction?
I did not know that specifically, but it makes sense.
That is by far the most common reaction.
It's by far the most common reaction.
This is why people listen to this show, because it's different.
Yeah.
My experience?
I have told a number of people about my history.
And what it's sort of like is holding someone's head underwater.
You know, initially it's a joke.
Like they're, okay, I'll, you know, I'll listen, I guess, if it's important for you to talk about.
And then if you keep holding someone's hand underwater, they start to get kind of uncomfortable, right?
Yes.
And then if you keep holding someone's head underwater, they start kicking you and thrashing and biting, right?
Yeah.
And honesty about history.
And again, I'm not comparing your childhood to mine.
It's all different, but I'm just talking from my experience.
You know, I had a great friend from when I was 11.
He knew all about my childhood, knew all about my history, and ended up just by accident talking to his wife about it.
One day, never heard the topic again.
I had other friends who knew me all the way through childhood.
You know, my house, the apartment that I was in, I mean, people came to live with us because they were having such trouble with their parents.
People just, you know, from when I was 15, this became where people came to live.
We needed the borders because we needed to pay rent and so on.
And so, You know, everybody's family knew what was going on.
Everybody knew that we had no parents.
My dad was in Africa.
My mom was in Vancouver.
I was 15.
Everybody knew because they sent their kids to our house if they were having significant problems with.
They lived with us.
A whole series of people.
We were like the Lost Boys apartment in the sky.
We were, I mean, not exactly Lord of the Flies because, you know, we had a pretty civilized So everybody knew, and of course nobody said, hey, you know, you guys have no parents.
You're still kids, you have no parents.
You've still got three years of high school to go through.
No parents.
And none of those kids ever asked.
None of the parents ever asked.
None of the teachers ever asked.
None of the priests when I was younger ever asked.
None of my extended family ever asked.
Ever asked or has ever asked.
I mean, this is significantly formative shit in our lives.
And nobody asks.
You know, people would rather risk death than ask people about their childhoods.
Look at this James Holmes guy.
The Aurora shooter.
Months ago, he's telling people, I'm going to go kill people.
When my life is done, when my life is over, I'm going on a killing spree.
He's a patient of a psychiatrist.
He reportedly talks about buying guns with his psychiatrist.
She breaks confidentiality, goes to the threat assessment team at the university and says, sweet mother of God, we have got a freakazoid and a half on our hands who's threatened to murder and is buying weapons.
They don't even have a meeting about it.
She goes to the campus police, breaks confidentiality again, says, Jesus, you know, we've got to do something about this guy.
The guy who says, I'm going to go on a shooting spree when my life is over, then, reportedly, fails his oral exams and drops out of school without giving a reason, all the while ordering thousands of rounds of ammunition on the internet.
He mails a notebook to his psychiatrist, reportedly, full of plans for killing people and crude drawings of a gunman shooting people.
I mean, if ever there's a man begging to be stopped, that's a man.
Look, I mean, he's a murderer.
I mean, he's a victim, but...
This is the degree to which people are absolutely dedicated to not discussing childhoods with people.
It is a black box, dark, underground, secret world that forms everybody but nobody can talk about, that shapes everybody but nobody can discuss.
The censorship that existed in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, the Khmer Rouge, Cambodia is nothing on the censorship about childhood, the black secret box of hell from which so many of us barely escaped, which we can never talk about with anyone and nobody can talk about with us.
It is the ultimate taboo to discuss one's history and its effect upon one's present.
We cannot, cannot, cannot talk about it.
And people would rather Have criminals in society than listen to people's difficult childhoods.
Criminals have had horrible childhoods and they've had no one to talk to about it.
So they get what society is all about.
Society that claims to care about people.
Claims to have compassion.
We have public schools because we care about our children.
Well, let me tell you about my childhood.
No!
You can't.
That is verboten.
Forbidden.
So you, my friend, brought this ultimate elephant in the room into the conversation.
You showed them the bomb in the brain.
You showed them the childhood roots of adult personality.
And you talked to them about your own history.
You broke the greatest taboo, the code of silence about childhood.
A third of boys sexually molested.
Two thirds of girls, according to some estimates, sexually molested.
Look at the Jerry Sandusky thing.
Serial predator.
Most pedophiles go through hundreds of victims before they're finally caught because nobody can talk about this shit.
Nobody will.
Nobody allows it.
Everybody freezes up.
Everybody panics.
There is a great silence.
We all have to pretend that we were born like Greek gods at the age of 18 and nothing came before us that had any effect on us whatsoever.
And we're just cool.
We're great.
We're hip.
We're fine.
We're strolling our sunny way through a skating on the surface beer commercial and leaving barely a footprint behind in the world because we have no history!
We have only commercials.
We have no plot.
We have only white noise.
And so if you broke this taboo with your friends and you talked to them about history about the truth of where we come from.
And the truth of where we come from is not always abuse.
I'm going to be clear about that, although I think in the future they will certainly look at public school as abusive.
But I'm talking sort of personal family stuff for those who had abusive families.
It's the great taboo.
We can't talk about it.
I don't want to do the whole show on why we can't talk about it.
It's partly religious and partly because We can't heal if we don't talk about it.
And if we can't heal, we remain an underclass.
We remain drones.
We remain worker bees.
We remain cubicle dwellers.
We don't threaten the entrepreneurship of the ruling classes.
Or if we have particular skills and talents and have had a traumatized history, then we can grow up to be, say, Bill Clinton, a war criminal who serves the ruling classes with his sociopathic charm.
But you broke the taboo.
There's a bomb in the brain in the relationship.
You pull the pin on the grenade called history, and everybody freaks out, and everybody runs away.
And it's not accidental, I would argue, that you got into a fight, an argument with your friend, and ceased having contact.
But you see, if you talk honestly about your history and say, I mean, even for me, that was good stuff in my childhood, which people know about, but if I say, here are the things...
Really bad.
Really, really bad.
Well, what do you learn about society when you talk about your own history?
You learn that society doesn't want to hear about it.
You learn that people would rather you do anything than talk about your pain.
Now, why can people not hear about your pain?
Because they have so much pain that is undealt with.
They can't listen to you because they've never listened to themselves.
They can't accept your words because they have rejected their own words and their own history so repeatedly and so emphatically and so persistently.
The world rejects its own pain, fights against its own pain, and slithers off to the shallow stereotypes of empty and shallow commercialism, materialism.
I don't think it's an accident that this was a moan.
And on top of them all is a sale.
Now, what's interesting to me is that I thought of the word S-A-L-E, not S-A-I-L. It's a sales shop.
It's pretty on top.
Looks great.
Beautiful.
Blowing in the wind.
Sales.
Don't get anywhere!
But this is the false self.
It's pretty.
Flutters in the breeze.
Attractive.
Stirring.
You are distracted, even from the bomb.
But that's the point of the prettiness on top of the bomb.
The bomb of history.
Sentimentality is a superstructure of brutality, as Jung said.
So on top is a sale.
It's a sales job.
It's marketing.
It's not truth.
At the bottom is a bomb.
And the exits are sealed.
Trapped by silence, by a lack of language, by a lack of empathy, by a lack of compassion, by a lack of returning hugging hands when holding out the Aztec altars of our stained childhoods.
And on top, when you flee, you get the pretty sales that go nowhere.
Sales job.
It's a con.
You go back down, and one of your friends who's traumatized says about the guy who was even more traumatized, he wants to talk to you, and you're like, shit, no.
I'm out of here.
I am out of here.
But that's our...
Sadly, it's our natural reaction.
And then you go to a movie, which is another thing to do when you've just had...
An experience like this, but at the end of it of course you at least are talking to your parents.
But to uncork the highly pressurized, traumatized history of the world is unbelievably taboo.
Our entire social structure, our entire economic system, our entire educational system, our entire hierarchies all rest upon the abuse of children that cannot be spoken of, that cannot be mentioned, that cannot be discussed.
What would the world look like if children who were harmed received comfort, even as adults?
Even as adults.
Oh my God, tell me more.
I want to hear more about this.
How terrible this must have been for you.
How isolated, how lonely you must have felt, how skeptical you must have felt about the virtue of society if hundreds or thousands of people knew how you were treated as a child and no one lifted a damn finger to help you in any way, shape or form and ignored and continue to ignore and continue to pretend that nothing happened.
How awful.
The simple human compassion that we all lay claim to and almost nobody displays in this world.
Because you have to deal with your own pain before you can be open to and accept the pain of others.
And the degree to which people will not listen to difficult histories is the degree to which they themselves had difficult histories.
The universality of opposition to truth about history is because everybody's lying to themselves about history, creating these pretty cells, these conjobs, these false cells, these glittering, shallow, empty, poisonous exteriors Which receive the wind and go nowhere.
And so I think that the dream is saying that if you run away from the people you introduced to self-knowledge, from the people you introduced to the value of talking about trauma, their buildings will collapse.
What do you think?
Immediately, my first reaction was, "Well, then what should I do?" But I understand that that's not where I'm at right now.
I want to process that and see where it fits.
It doesn't have to be you who talks to them.
I mean, they can go see a therapist.
Therapists are trained in this area, as everybody knows.
I'm a massive fan.
Of good therapy.
But somebody needs to listen.
And all you need to do, in my opinion, is to understand that you're facing the most primal taboo.
Which is that we cannot talk about childhood difficulties.
People would rather talk about anything else than childhood difficulties.
Because if you talk about childhood difficulties, that brings relief to the adult children.
When you bring relief to the adult children, they no longer fit into a political hierarchy.
They no longer fit into a fascistic hierarchical corporate structure.
The profit of the 1% depends upon the heel of censorship continually grinding into the throats of bruised adult children.
So, first of all, to have sympathy with yourself.
That we simply cannot talk about this.
It has to be hidden.
It has to be wallpapered over.
Tell me, have you ever seen a child being spanked in a movie or TV show over the past 30 years?
No.
Let's just start with TV shows.
Tons of kids in shows.
They're all precocious and adorable and Healthy and apple-cheeked and rambunctious and skeptical and, you know, all this, right?
Have you ever seen a child being spanked on a television show?
I mean, I'm sure I have, but I can't recall one.
And But you know, 80 to 90 percent of parents are spanking children, right?
Yeah.
So how could it be completely absent?
Oh, because you wouldn't want to bring that up, bring those emotions up in your viewership.
Yeah, everyone says, you know, the spankers usually say, I'm completely comfortable with spanking, I've got no problem with spanking, then why can't you look at it?
Why isn't it part of the culture?
Why is it never shown?
If everybody's so fucking comfortable with spanking.
It's always like a luminous go to your room, I'll talk to you later sort of thing, and, you know, they never show it.
Nah, you've got a fucking stick in...
Family ties or whatever the hell it was, right?
I mean, the parents are always reasoning with the children.
They're always jovial.
They're always, right?
Yeah.
I mean, that's the weird thing, right?
I mean, everybody says, well, my parents didn't know any better.
It's like, if they watch TV, they got thousands of hours of instruction on peaceful parenting.
I mean, I never saw Cliff Huxtable from the Cosby show hitting his children.
Yeah, no.
Never saw the parents from Family Ties or Full House or...
God, whatever.
I don't even remember.
I didn't watch a huge amount of them.
They say, we didn't know any better.
It's like, what do you mean you didn't know any better?
I mean, parents, since the advent of the television, have seen thousands of hours of instruction on peaceful, reasonable, happy, non-aggressive, non-violent, non-raising-your-voice, non-yelling, non-insulting, non-putting-down parenting.
How can they say that they've never had any exposure to it?
Because that's all people want to consume.
Everybody knows what peaceful parenting looks like because that's all everybody ever wants to look at because they can't look in the mirror.
They can't even look at a spanking.
Imagine!
Imagine in a sitcom or a TV show today, a child's pants are pulled down, he is yanked onto some parent's lap and smack, smack, smack!
Well, there is a...
Don't go near that stove!
There is a Simpsons, but that's a cartoon, you know.
It's kind of disconnected.
Well, and in the Simpsons, Bart strangles his father.
The whole family is...
Yeah, and it's always like Bart...
Yeah, and it's a male thing, because the girls are not violent, right?
So it's just another stereotypical bullshit, anti-male thing.
And it's so over-exaggerated that it's, you know, it's cartoon characters.
And I still have never seen, I have never seen spanking on The Simpsons.
Again, I'm not, I don't think I've watched more than a few dozen shows, but I've never seen spanking on The Simpsons.
You see this, you know, choking each other kind of stuff, right?
Which is cartoony, obviously cartoon, but I've never seen a serious spanking.
I don't think they've ever addressed the issue of spanking.
They address lots of issues, right?
Yeah, yeah.
But they've never touched.
You can't touch it.
If everybody's so comfortable with it, right?
People are comfortable with eating meat.
This is how insane it is.
Most people are comfortable with eating meat.
And it's like, if everyone on television was a vegetarian and you never saw a burger, and you never saw bacon, and you never saw chicken being eaten, and all anybody ever ate was tofu and Road gravel or whatever the hell, right?
Then it would be like, well, if everyone's so fucking comfortable with eating meat, why can't you never see a burger on TV? Why can't you ever see spanking?
Everybody's so comfortable with it.
Because, because it's horrifying to see.
If you showed spanking, you would never work in media again.
I mean, this is how crazy it is, right?
And this is an extreme example, so please excuse the hyperbole.
But Nazis openly hate Jews, right?
The white supremacists, they openly hate minorities.
They want them to go away.
And they're open about that, right?
Yes.
But, I mean, the parents who are hitting their children...
Can't stand to look at what they're actually doing.
You know, like, I mean, if the evil white supremacists got their way and they put all the minorities on boats, these guys would be out there cheering at the harbor, right?
They'd be happy to see the fruits of their labors.
They've got no problem with the fruits of their labors if they were to get their evil way, right?
But why can't parents look at spanking?
Why can't we ever see it?
Because I believe, I believe, this is just bullshit opinion, right?
But I believe that parents who spank are in an altered state of mind.
You have to be in an altered state of mind to harm another human being.
You have to be dead to empathy.
You have to be self-righteous.
You have to be wildly aggressive.
You have to be in an abusive state of mind, which means zero empathy.
But that doesn't last.
Once that beast is sated, then you recover some level of empathy.
Now, if you're in a state of empathy and you see spanking, you are horrified at what you do when you're out of that state of empathy.
It connects you with your child's experience because you're in a state of empathy which you can't beat a spank.
You can't be in a state of empathy to spank.
You can be in a state of cruelty, self-righteousness, dominance, power.
And so if you're just sitting there watching some sitcom with your kid laughing away, you know, and then the mom on Modern Family, the one who looks like a playboy cutout from a trucker's tire, she then pulls her son on her lap and spanks his bare bottom, you would be shocked into your child's experience of spanking because you would not be in that cruel state.
And you would react with horror and usually with rage against whoever put you in that empathetic state with your own child because it would be too horrifying to recollect what you've done.
Yeah.
So if you're going to open up conversations with people about their history, I just think it's important to recognize that it's a huge taboo.
It is ground-shaking.
It is like moving the world to a different orbit.
And, you know, honestly, it's...
I mean, really, it's more about me.
I mean, really, it's like I'd rather be discussing with myself what I felt about my history.
I think at the time it was just a little easier to put it out onto other people, if that makes sense.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, because, I mean, you can't go deeper in conversations with other people than you've gone deep in yourself, right?
Yeah, I mean, I have spent time examining this stuff, but lately I've...
Like the last few weeks have just been, I've just been, oh god, it's like losing sleep and I know there's something big churning inside and half of me is like, alright, let's do it, let's figure this out, let's find out what's going on.
The other half of me is like, holy shit, strap me to the chair, I never want to move again.
You know, and it's just...
Stop, stop, stop, stop!
Yeah.
You don't know...
Yeah, but basically you're like a 12-year-old girl trying to push her boobs back in.
Sorry, puberty's already started.
Only on the weekends, but yes.
Yeah, no, I mean, this is, as I've said from the very beginning of the podcast series, in terms of self-knowledge, it looks like a staircase that turns into an ice chute, right?
You're like, hey, I'm going to climb down here just a little way, so you have...
Right?
You're like a penguin on a rocket blaster, right?
Yeah.
Because once you bring down the walls that keep universality, UPP, objectivity, ethics, virtue, once you bring down those walls, even if you just lean against them, the brain is like, woohoo, integrity, crash, smash, bring it all down!
NRT in the UK! Yeah, and you're like, no, no, listen, can we manage this?
You know, it's like blasting a prison where people have been unjustly caged for decades and then expecting them to, you know, come out slowly and orderly.
Like, no!
We're free!
Stampede!
We have broken the prison of history.
We are out of the chains of inertia.
We are going to run.
Yeah.
Stampede of the self.
Running with the bullets is nothing.
Right?
That's what it's felt like.
It's felt like I've been like, can I just wait until I find a place?
Can I just wait until this job starts?
Can I just wait until I'm a little bit more secure in this?
And then it's like, no!
No, because literally in terms of the collective unconscious, they're like genies that have been waiting for thousands of years.
Yeah.
I'm glad.
In terms of who's inherited, right?
I'm glad I want...
It's difficult to say wants with these sort of things.
I'm interested in having a more free personality, but it's also just like the scariest thing I've ever experienced.
And I'm juggling all these things.
Trying to find an apartment, juggling I'm trying to find a good job, better than just McDonald's.
I'm trying to step up my game a little bit.
I just moved to a completely different part of the country than I grew up, and it's just like, all this stuff's just coming at once, and it's like, oh man, can't we just prioritize a little bit?
No!
No, exactly.
Exactly.
It's like, this is our chance, man.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean, you might as well talk to a volcano, right?
Listen, it's not wildly convenient right now.
I don't have my hazmat suit and my umbrella.
Could you...
Okay, I guess we'll run with you.
Right?
Hot, hot, hot.
Now I know what you mean.
I'm just curious.
Is this somewhat similar to what your experience was?
Like...
Well, and is.
It doesn't.
Look, it comes and it goes.
There are peaks and valleys, for sure.
But there are a number of factors that, in my experience, have had a strong influence on my development.
So there's me who wants to be free, who yearns to be free, to be consistent, to be rational, to stand astride this world like a colossus of the future.
And through the powers of reason and evidence be the archway through which a new world is birthed.
Yes, there is all of that.
And there are those around me who I have internalized who do not want me to find the truth because the truth is not flattering to them.
Yes.
Right?
The counterfeiters do not want you to invent a magic counterfeit detection wand, right?
Absolutely not.
Because then the Federal Reserve sinks into the ocean, right?
So there are people to whom philosophy is not friendly.
Right?
Because they have done such wrongs that restitution cannot occur.
In which case the hell that people dream of is their world.
But they don't see it unless philosophy lights up the fiery landscape.
Shows them where they are.
That they're not On top with the sails, but down at the bottom with the bomb.
They are the bomb.
And so there's me who wants to be free.
There's the alter egos that I've internalized from those around me and those around me to whom my freedom exposes who they are.
Their lack of freedom, their evil.
And that's two poles, but there's a third one.
There's a third one, which I invite you to.
to picture, because I think it's more than a picture.
Let me ask you this.
How desperately, how needfully, how passionately, I say again how desperately, did the children of the future want us to win?
Oh, oh, constantly, just constantly, let's go.
Constantly just, all right, all right, we're ready.
Just come on, help us out here.
And, oh, man.
More desperately than I could possibly express without breaking the computer.
Yeah.
The combined, passionate, desperate need Of the millions of unborn souls who, in a platonic fantasy, float around us like Saturn's rings, scanning the world, saying, my timer is counting down, people!
My timer is counting down.
I'm going to be born in 12 years, in 20 years, in five minutes!
Please, please, please get peaceful parenting through to my parents before I'm born.
Please, please, please get the non-aggression principle across to my parents before I am born.
It means everything to me.
It is the world I will have to live in for 18 years straight while my brain and my body and my soul is being forged.
And please let me be forged in sunshine and not fire.
Please let me be shaped like a clay pot with caresses and not like a punching bag with indentations.
Please let my musicality be informed by lullabies, not punk.
Please let my words be murmured, not screamed.
Please let my language be of peace and not of fear and anger and destruction.
Please, please let me be allowed to develop straight And not turned into a convenient little strangled bonsai on the conveyor belt to feed the moors of our rulers.
Please don't let me be filled with lies.
Please don't let me be told that I'm evil.
Please don't let me be told that I will go to hell if I don't obey ghosts.
Please, please don't burden me with unbelievable debt.
Please let me get a job when I'm 18.
Please don't put me into these schools because I am whole and pure And ready to spring into virtuous and beautiful action to hit the gas and skyrocket the future of mankind to a beautiful vision.
I am ready.
I am willing.
I am able.
Please don't hamstring me.
Please don't cut off my hands.
Please don't grind up my feet.
Please don't remove my limbs.
Please don't poke out my eyes.
Please don't destroy my mind.
Please.
I am helpless.
I am begging you.
Do everything you can.
To make the place that I land a bed, a trampoline, a cushion, not spikes and fire and conformity.
And that is those cries, those needs, those orbiting souls to be.
The plane that has to land, that needs a runway so it doesn't crash.
Well, that keeps me busy.
And that is a huge fuel.
Philosophy is through all time.
I hear Socrates saying, please, dear God, do what you can to finish what I started, even if it's only half a percent.
I hear Ayn Rand from beyond the grave saying, and also saying, okay, so I missed a few things.
If you could just, just as people will come after me and get right what I've gotten wrong and move it along further, But because philosophy is for all time, it is needed by those yet to be most of all.
Most of all.
Please don't let me be born into a single-parent household.
Please do what you can to keep abusive grandparents at bay.
Please do what you can to make the world a peaceful place for me to raise in.
And if you can't make the world peaceful, at least make it clear so that I'm not...
I don't have to pretend That evil is virtue.
If I am to be born in a state of control and dependence, at least let me see it for what it is.
Because I can't fight what I can't see.
Don't make the world a hawk attacking a blind man.
At least let me see, so I can dodge and roll with it.
I think that is the most that can be achieved in one generation.
But that's part of the propulsion, I think, that occurs.
We think of the past pushing us, and that happens.
And we think of ourselves wanting to spread and be free, and that happens.
But remember, the vacuum, the pull, the need of the future.
See?
See, it even sounds like a rocket.
And that's where the energy is.
To be a hero for the unborn.
Come on, that's the ultimate superhero.
I mean, it's true, your tights do have diapers under them because you want to empathize with those who are new.
But nonetheless, I think we still cut a fine figure.
Oh yeah, but I do that anyway.
Yeah, it depends.
Depends.
Oh, did you get that?
Too subtle?
Yeah.
Anyway, so that's sort of what I got out of the dream.
And I hope that's...
Well, most definitely.
Thinking about the future, that's been one of the seven or eight billion themes of the last couple of weeks.
Thinking about the future, thinking about my children, thinking about my wife, you know, future children, future wife, you know, I'm just a grass, I don't know, I'm a young guy.
And so it's been like trying to think about like what kind of, like, What kind of steps can I take to give my child, at the very least, as a starting place, to give my child the best leg up that they can get so they're not in this kind of horrific feeling,
you know don't know if you're saving the world or if you're just insane kind of like everybody around me seems to just you know like attack you know I think you know what I mean I would love to be able to bring up a child and have them actually know what's going on so they don't have to have get rid of this whole God stuff when they get old enough you know
They don't have to spend all this time trying to sort through all the bullshit that they've been taught so they can spend that time You know, really acting on the truth that they already understand, you know, that they don't have to erase all the bullshit and go through each individual file and find mismatched contradictions and eliminate them before you can move on, you know, and that's...
I know I'm thinking way ahead, but it's been creeping up because I've been becoming more and more aware of the fact that I'm going to die one day.
I no longer have that whole heaven thing, so I better get a move on because I'm not going to live forever in eternal bliss.
What do you want on your tombstone?
This guy fucking...
Well, maybe not the fucking, but this guy...
I'm fine with that.
Go for it.
I mean, if that's the only thing that people are offended about in this show, they're missing the whole point.
Anyway, go on.
Well, I mean, this guy...
I don't know specifically, but this guy did something great that got the word out.
You know, I don't know the specifics.
I'm not a mind reader, so it's kind of difficult.
But it's like, this guy did something that...
This guy helped a lot.
This guy, like, made it a lot easier for us folks.
You know, it's a big tombstone.
So, this guy, like, he was...
You know, a great husband and father is important.
But, you know, also...
It's difficult because I don't know the specifics but it's like this guy really did something cool you know like and not just like invented something that was cool but like really helped make the world Better, you know, really did.
You know, not the bullshit like he gave $300 to kids in Africa.
You know, that's partially helpful, but you know, it's not really that helpful.
But like, really did something that is great, you know.
That's like as far as I can get, you know.
I really don't know specifically.
But something that's actually beneficial, something that's actually helpful.
Not the, you know, say it's beneficial, you know, but it's really not kind of thing, you know.
But it's difficult because I don't know what that will look like necessarily at this point, but I've always had this kind of feeling that, you know, that's...
Yeah, but I mean, once the prisoners escape, yeah, they run wild for a while.
You know, it's like Amish kids in Vegas.
But then they...
They settle down and sit around a conference table and say, okay, let's get down to business.
So it's alright.
I'd like one of two things on my tombstone.
One is, ladies have a seat.
I think I'm still fertile.
That's one.
Second is, he took the words and made them real.
He took the words and made them real.
Because nothing that I talk about, nothing that I talk about Is radical.
No, no, no, I know.
No, seriously.
Like, if I said, if I said, if I said everybody should live collectively, children should be anonymously grown in test tubes and randomly assigned to people, and no one should have any property, and kidneys should be shared in common, I mean, that would be some pretty radical shit.
I mean, people have come up with crazy ass stuff like that before, but that would be some pretty radical, radical stuff.
But, when You know, people, I mean, I do sometimes get asked, like, where do you get all these radical ideas from?
I'll tell you.
It's really embarrassingly simple.
It's really embarrassingly simple.
All that happened was I actually listened as a child to what my authorities told me.
That's all I did.
That's all I continued to do.
All I did was I listened as a child to the ethics of my elders and believed them.
That's all I did.
They told me, violence is a bad way to get what you want.
Got it!
Fuck, that's great.
What a simple principle.
I was told it when I was 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, right?
And now I'm told it too.
Can't go punch a guy.
Can't go steal.
So I got it.
That's all I've done.
All I did was listen.
I was also told, right, because my mom got divorced and I had two friends out of like 20.
Whose parents were still together.
That's not representative, right?
We were all in broke-ass apartments because it was hard on the economy of the family to get broken up.
So it's not, right?
But still, divorce tripled in the decade when I was growing up.
And so, why did people get divorced?
I mean, there was a question we all had.
Why is Dad not around?
Well, he yelled at me.
He beat me.
He hit me.
He was cool.
He was cold.
I was bored.
I was unfulfilled.
These were all given as reasons for ending primary relationships.
All I did was listen.
Say, oh, okay.
So violence is unacceptable in a relationship.
I'm much kinder on families than anybody I grew up ever was on marriages.
I say these are very important relationships.
If you have trouble with them, you've got to sit down.
You've got to work it out.
Go to therapy.
Do everything you can to try and save it.
If you can't, you're free to leave.
I was never talked about that in terms of marriages.
And nobody who got divorced when I was a kid ever went through that process.
Ever.
But I heard, wow, violence and abuse is unacceptable.
It's a deal breaker.
It's intolerable.
That's what I was told.
I listened.
Oh, another thing I was told was that everything is for the kids.
Kids are everything.
Kids are the future.
Kids are the most precious things in society.
Fantastic.
Got it.
I listened.
I also watched.
I also watched.
Never saw children getting spanked in the mass media.
Never saw a TV show.
Never saw a movie.
I saw one where a woman was losing her mind, where she ended up yelling at her children.
I saw that with my mom.
All she had was empathy for the mom.
How terrible it was for her.
No thought to the kids.
Well, anyway.
So I watched.
I watched and I listened.
Nobody is comfortable with spanking because I never see spanking.
I mean, I'll see it occasionally in public.
Never see it.
So clearly people aren't comfortable with it.
So, don't use violence to get what you want.
That's anarchism.
I mean, I was taught to be an anarchist.
I was propagandized into anarchy from as early as I can remember as a human being.
Don't use force.
Don't say mean things.
If I called another kid stupid, what was I told?
Don't call people stupid.
Stupid.
That's how crazy it is, right?
But all I did was I listened and I watched.
And it took me a long time to get just how hypocritical this all was.
And I just sort of did recently a two-hour speech in Vancouver on this.
I won't go into this here.
But I just listened.
Don't use violence.
Don't say mean things.
Violence is unacceptable in a relationship.
If your husband hits you, you've got to leave him.
Well, these are chosen relationships.
If your husband is verbally abusive to you, it's unacceptable.
If you're dissatisfied, if your husband is boring, I watched Kramer vs.
Kramer three times, four times when I was a kid.
I don't know how old I was.
Somebody can find that in the chat room.
I was in my early teens, I think.
It came out in 1979 or 1980.
I was sort of 13 or 14, 12 or 13 or 14 years old.
And, I mean, I didn't have any money, so going to see a movie three or four times in the theater, this is when you had to go pay to see movies, there was no DVDs or anything, no VCRs even really then.
I went to go and see this, and I really tried to understand it.
I really, I tried to understand it.
1979, okay, so I don't know when it came out, I assume it was the summer of 79, so I was 11 or 12 years old.
So I really tried to understand this movie.
Because the mom abandoned her children.
She abandoned her children.
She left with no word of explanation.
A child, I guess, is his one son there, right?
Dustin Hoffman stayed.
And why did she pull the entire grenade on this whole family?
Was he a drunk?
No.
Did he have no money?
No, he worked.
Was he abusive?
No indication of that at all.
Did he hit her?
Nope.
I think at the beginning of the film, it's been a long time since I've seen it, I think he's staying at work a little bit late to talk with some colleague or whatever.
And I mean, I don't know, maybe some women feel that men working too hard is somehow negative to them, but, you know, it's kind of important for men who have the responsibility to bring home a paycheck to actually bring home a paycheck.
So why did she leave?
Why did she abandon her child?
Was it the act of a selfish monster?
No!
It was luminous, ethereal Meryl Streep.
She left because she just felt kind of stifled and unfulfilled and that's why she abandoned her family, traumatized her children, wrecked her husband's life, Because she was...
I mean, I really tried to get that lesson.
I watched this film over and over again.
I think there was a book too, if I remember.
I read that too, to see if I could find something more out about it.
Right?
There ain't no good guys.
There ain't no bad guys.
There's only you and me and we just disagree.
That's all it was.
Dustin Hoffman wasn't a bad guy.
Meryl Streep wasn't a bad guy.
So abandoning your children, cratering an entire marriage, abandoning your son, was not a bad thing to do.
Lying about your husband in the court battle over custody was not a bad thing to do.
She was not portrayed as a bad person.
She was sympathetic.
So I just, I got, and this was a hugely popular film.
And I read reviews of it.
I was really trying to unpiece this puzzle when I was a kid.
Really trying to figure this movie out.
And the social reaction.
It was a huge film.
And I don't remember anyone saying, what a destructive thing for this woman to do.
She chose to marry this guy.
She chose to have a kid.
You don't just get to walk away from that because you feel kind of dissatisfied.
Your husband is working a little bit late.
Because you don't have an emotional connection that's as rich as you want and therefore you can just run away, abandon your kid, traumatize everyone, lie about your husband in court.
But it's like Kathleen Turner in The Wars of the Roses, she's married to Michael Douglas in the film.
They have like a 16 or 20 year marriage, build their dream house together, just decides, just wakes up one day.
Decides to leave him.
Is he a drunk?
Is he abusive?
Is he mean?
No.
He's none of those things.
He's just kind of dissatisfied.
I mean, this was a standard narrative.
Sorry, the show's going over.
It's a standard narrative I saw all the time in the 70s, the 80s, the early 90s.
If you're dissatisfied, you can just pull the trigger.
You can just walk away.
Just get divorced.
You can, you know, follow your bliss.
If other people in your life are not to your satisfaction, even if you chose them, just walk away.
Mom, this is certainly nothing I've ever advocated because I thought that was just way extreme, way extreme, and ultimately incredibly irresponsible.
You make a choice to be with someone, well, you owe it to that person in particular, if you have children, to try absolutely everything you can.
To fix and heal the relationship.
And the first thing is to look in the mirror, get therapy for yourself and figure out if you're the problem.
Well, none of that kindness was ever granted to the families of my generation when I was a child.
And these are chosen relationships.
Relationships with parents aren't even chosen.
Just happen to be there.
So, that's why On my tombstone, at least as of 420 on August 28th, 2012.
That's why on my tombstone, yeah, he made the words real.
He did what he was taught.
He obeyed.
He did that which he was instructed to do.
A lot of people didn't like that he listened and did what he was told.
Well, that's just hypocrisy.
If we think that violence is a great way to get what you want and we call it democracy and statism, great!
Let's be honest about that.
If we can't be honest about that, let's change the goddamn system.
Let's not have a system that we have to lie about to children.
I mean, the moment you have to lie about things with children, your system is fucked.
I mean, you just, you know, your system is messed up.
I'm not talking about relativity.
We don't lie, so you can't understand, right?
So I listened.
That's all I did.
Don't steal.
Okay.
Don't hit.
Okay.
Don't yell.
Don't use bad words.
Okay.
Got it.
Don't be verbally abusive.
Got it.
And if people in your life are not to your liking, you're not a bad person for walking away.
You are self-actualized.
You are in the process of individuating.
You are being authentic.
This is all I was taught.
If people are upset, well, I'm sorry that I listened.
But, you know, they were very convincing.
And I remain convinced.
Not of the Kramer vs.
Kramer thing.
But I do remain convinced of peace and respect for property and dignity and respect to all who earn it.
And to everyone who I first meet and to all who earn it afterwards.
So, If philosophy holds up a big, giant, flat mirror to society's moral pronouncements, and it sees itself as a grotesque gargoyle of rank, hellish hypocrisy, well, society can get angry at the mirror, but that's why it's so ugly, because it won't take responsibility for that which it preaches to the young.
Anyway, I'm sorry that this has been such a long show.
I did feel the abubblings of passion, and I thank you for your support.
I thank you for your encouragement.
I thank you for you sharing the show to the world.
I look forward to your donations, freedomainradio.com forward slash donate.
The movie is quite an exciting work in progress, and I hope that you have yourselves a wonderful week.
And remember, we will start at 10 a.m.
Eastern next week.
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