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May 30, 2011 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

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1923 Freedomain Radio Interviews Free Talk Live!

Stefan Molyneux of Freedomain Radio interviews Mark Edge and Ian Freeman of Free Talk Live about getting their 100th radio station to broadcast their show - and for once, without taking a single hostage! Check out Free Talk Live at http://www.freetalklive.com

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	Hi everybody, it's Stefan Wallinger for Free Domain Radio.
	Oh, what a treat!
	Ladies and gentlemen, we have the fine folk from Free Talk Live here who are celebrating their centenary.
	They said that they reached 100 and I just would like to know, guys, how, oh how, oh how do you keep looking so young?
	I can't quite figure it out.
	It's not 100 years, Stefan.
	It's 100 stations.
	That makes a lot more sense than what I was thinking, but it's going to change the tone for a little bit.
	I assumed you were sacrificing virgins, rubbing whale blubber on, wearing tight underwear or something to keep yourself looking so young.
	But in terms of your expansion into the multimedia multiverse, I think that makes a whole lot more sense.
	So first of all, let me just say massive fireworks congratulations on 100 stations.
	How does it feel?
	It feels a lot like 99.
	I felt that that was a big build-up and then a little drop off a cliff.
	As the stations add up, it feels like Free Talk Live is really going to make it, and it's an amazing thing.
	To speak frankly to your type of audience, it's amazing that folks that believe in a society where you don't need violence to Do what you want to do can actually have a nationally syndicated radio program that makes it to 100 stations.
	I mean, 100 stations is really kind of the criteria for being considered, I guess, like a second-tier show, you know, like a real radio show.
	The first tiers being the Rush Limbaugh's and the Sean Hannity's.
	So would you say, metaphorically speaking, and as a British guy, I use baseball metaphors with caution, you're within spitting distance of the majors.
	That's what you're saying?
	I'd say we're in whatever the farm team is beneath the majors at this point.
	That's really probably the best analogy is we're in whatever the Bush League is beneath the majors.
	Yeah, I would say that Free Talk Live is still, you know, we're popular enough to where we're known by a number of people in the industry, but there's still sometimes, frequently a lot of the times, when I'll call a radio station for the first time, And they will have never heard of us before.
	So despite years of existing and syndicated radio, years of advertising and the main publication that advertises to top radio stations, there's still a whole lot of penetration into the marketplace that just hasn't been done.
	So we're growing as fast as we can considering that it's really for the most part just Mark and myself that are kind of doing the business-oriented side of things.
	I was just reading today about how Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh are facing significant declines in their listenership.
	I think Rush Limbaugh is over a third over a year and 28% for Sean Hannity.
	It would be very interesting, and I always try not to get overly optimistic because this is a way to get your hearts crushed like a cockroach under a truck, but it would be nice to think that some of the traditional conservative media has begun to fall away in terms of credibility, particularly with its miscalculation about the economy and the war, and that there may be room, you know, a sort of break in the clouds, a crack in the sky through which we can send up our beams of light and maybe grab some more brains.
	Yeah, there's definitely room.
	I mean, one of the things about radio is because it is a government regulated industry, for the most part, obviously we have a handful of really great micro radio, pirate radio community stations that carry our show.
	But for the most part, the business of radio is a highly regulated business.
	And as a result of that, you know, the FCC is essentially slowly strangling the life.
	Out of the radio business, what little life there is left in it.
	So that means there's not really a lot of competition for syndicated talk radio.
	I mean, I never really consider myself the most particularly talented host.
	I'm just persistent. You know, I can keep picking up the phone and calling these radio stations over time, and that's what I do every day when I get up, is all radio stations.
	And most talk show hosts aren't willing to put that kind of effort into their show.
	They just want to show up, flip on a microphone, and collect a paycheck.
	And then you combine that, the laziness of the people in radio, with the fact that there's just only so many stations that do talk radio, and only so many syndicators that provide shows to those people.
	And you end up with a situation where, with our Saturday show, for instance, which has kind of historically been the foot in the door for Free Talk Live, We get on a station on Saturday nights because it's easier to get in on one night than to have them change their entire weekday schedule.
	So we get in on Saturday night and then eventually when something changes on weeknights, that's when we can get in there.
	But on Saturday nights, we're really the only...
	Caller-based, syndicated show that's on the air.
	The only thing that you have to choose from on a Saturday night in the United States of America that's live and nationally syndicated is Free Talk Live.
	So what you're saying is that one of the ultimate free market radio shows has achieved a monopoly with the help of the state.
	Powers, brother! Powers!
	It's beautiful. Just kidding.
	Ah, the irony. Ah, the irony.
	Before you go on, I want to make one point here.
	I think that it would be my guess that the drop in ratings for Sean and Rush would probably be based on us being in a non-election year.
	What will happen is as the election ramps up, they'll get more and more listenership.
	I suspect that's what you're seeing, just as an aside.
	Well, it could be. I certainly wouldn't claim to have my fingers on the pulse of the conservative nation, but I do believe that it's a little harder for anybody with a few brain cells to rub together to continue on the conservative bandwagon.
	They can no longer really be considered...
	They no longer can be really considered anti-war, anti-imperialism, anti-intervention.
	That stuff seems to have all fallen by the wayside, despite what Ryan's doing.
	So maybe there's some skepticism out there, which is a good thing.
	Now, sorry, go ahead. Before you go on, Stefan, about 67%, was that the number, Ian?
	69% of talk radio listeners would call themselves independent.
	It's 82%. Some number like that.
	Right, right, right. Now, 100 stations, I know what you mean.
	Like, it feels a lot like 99.
	Like, you wake up and if you're 40, you don't feel hugely different than 39 and almost 40.
	But the great thing about these kinds of markers in your career or in your life is that it gives you the chance to sort of pause and, you know, zoom out.
	You know, we get so consumed with the day-to-day operations of whatever it is that we're doing in this wild new media that it can be easy to lose track of the big picture.
	If you sort of take that Satellite view of what you guys have been up to since I think you mentioned 2002 you began podcasting.
	So, you know, it's coming on in a decade, 100 stations.
	What are the big picture trends or views, satisfactions, pluses, minuses, disasters and successes that you have accumulated in your considerable experience in this field?
	That's a tough question. Let me jump in.
	It's all been a success as far as I'm concerned.
	I've been having a blast. We started being nationally syndicated in 2004.
	The first couple of years or so was Bebopping around on different radio stations in Sarasota, Florida.
	And after that, we became nationally syndicated, but just barely.
	We were only carried on a few stations.
	We'd go whole shows without telephone callers.
	And now it's really nice to have telephone callers.
	Like, please don't let this be a wrong number.
	Please don't let this be a wrong number.
	It happened. I've got three pizzas and I can't find your house.
	Oh, bring them here. We're hungry.
	That's absolutely true. So it's wonderful to be able to keep, you know, mostly keep the phone lines coming.
	FreeTalk Live is a caller-based show as opposed to being a host-based show where we talk about what we want to talk about.
	We nominally talk about what the callers want to talk about.
	So it's great to have people calling in.
	It also means a heck of a lot less work for us because we don't have to do show prep.
	And that much is awesome.
	It's nice to be able to Call stations and they recognize, oh, we've heard of you guys, and that's a very good thing.
	Yeah, people actually come up to us now at the convention so like in a couple weeks we're going to New York City where we'll schmooze it up with the big wigs and talk radio and you know the first couple years it was more difficult there because we were the new guys.
	It was mortifying! And now you know you had to make an effort to go and meet people and now it's a little more of a oh we've been here for a while and people are coming up and you know asking us questions and Talkers has been good to us in that We advertise with them clearly and so to some extent the benefits, the perks of advertising with them and at the same time having a show that has some level of success means that they'll actually use, they've been using me every year for the last few years as a portion of their convention.
	So I gave a brief speech once and I've been on a couple of panel discussions.
	So that helps raise Free Talk Live's profile as well when we're up on the stage with the other people that are of much bigger stature than we are.
	That helps with the credibility.
	When he says we, he really means him, because they don't put me on the stage.
	Well, and I was going to recommend this as part of my two bits worth of career advice, is that if you want to break into more of the conservative market, the key thing seems to be carbs and lots of them.
	I think basically you guys are just too slender to really appeal to that kind of market.
	Too skinny for radio! Sorry? Well, the good thing is that we do actually have a number of progressive talk stations on board with Free Talk Live, and that's kind of one of the selling points with our show.
	We can go to any talk radio station Maybe with the exception of a business talker or something like that.
	But progressive and conservative talk stations alike both can find something that is entertaining about Free Talk Live.
	Their audiences are obviously not going to agree with us on everything, but they will agree with us on some things.
	And what's most important to a program director that understands his audience is that they listen, not whether they agree.
	The other thing you'd asked about some things that we're proud of, and here's one thing that really comes to mind is Early on we talked about a business model that I thought we could make work and it's nice to be able to see it work.
	The Free Talk Live is a completely unique program in that we do everything on our own.
	I came from the sales side of radio so I understood that and I happened to end up on air in the first night that we did Free Talk Live.
	And Ian can handle all the blinking boxes and all the engineering things and all the IT stuff.
	All the machines that go...
	Yeah, I have no idea what that stuff does.
	And I don't want to. As a matter of fact, I find it offensive when somebody tells me that I should know this new technological thing.
	I don't want to know it. Division of labor is key.
	Division of labor is key.
	I can really sell some radio.
	And we've managed to make that business model work.
	We support Two family units, if you call Ian a family unit.
	I support my family on my portion of the ad sales, and Ian does, I don't know, whatever he does with his.
	Well, that's great.
	Looking back at the last, I guess, almost 10 years, are there things that you wish you'd done sooner or things you wish you'd done later, or have you been mostly satisfied with the way things have progressed?
	I remember that when I started, I had some unrealistic expectations.
	I was calling a bunch of stations every day, at least 50 stations a day, and I thought for sure I was going to have 50 stations by the end of the first year.
	Five was more like it, and it took five years to get 50 stations.
	But I don't think I would have done anything differently.
	I think I did the right stuff, which was get on the phones every single day and call these guys and talk to these program directors around the country.
	And, you know, build some level of rapport with them to where when they were thinking about what they wanted to do for programming changes, they thought about FreeTalk Live and building an email list with, you know, nearly 700 names on it of decision makers within the business.
	That's now really, I mean, now I call stations and these guys will say, hey, I read your email and I really appreciate you sending my stuff.
	And there are a lot of them who, you know, they're working for the big corporations and it, to some extent, may be a bit of a dream of theirs, what we're doing, and they're, to some extent, you know, living vicariously through Free Talk Live, and they like to see that somebody can succeed in radio without having a clear channel be, you know, their pimp, essentially, to, you know, to bring them to the top, as has done with, you know, Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.
	We're a real independent success story, and I think there are a lot of people out there toiling away in the world of radio, in this corporatized world, that really appreciate that.
	So I don't think I would have done anything differently.
	And what about you, Mark? I'm the eternal optimist.
	I think I expected things to go a little more quickly, like Ian did.
	I expected more stations more quickly, and I expected the money to come more quickly, too.
	But, you know, now that it's here and I put the sweat equity into Free Talk Live, obviously I'm very pleased with my life as it is today.
	But there, you know, there were months where it was tough.
	Now, as far as you seem to have a fairly unique listener base of loyalty, how have you, other than your wall of ladies, how have you managed to sort of get your hooks into and keep your hooks into your audience who seem to be very loyal to what it is that you're doing?
	Well, I think that Free Talk Live is something unusual.
	We were first. Yeah, we were first to market in some ways.
	Somebody is going to come along that is going to have way more talent and have the same message and they're probably going to knock us out of the ballpark at some point.
	We promo shows that are about liberty on this show.
	So we talk about your show.
	We tell people where to go hear it.
	We talk about other shows that are about liberty and things like that.
	So we're We're in it for the moment.
	We can't get that Jamie Crane to stop calling in.
	But we believe in the ideas, and as a result, I think that that means something to people.
	Plus, we offer a show that's just different.
	We argue between Ian and I on a regular basis.
	We have a more combative relationship at times with callers.
	I'm not saying I like doing that, but there's...
	We'll get the people calling in, are you kidding me?
	You've got to kill yourself some Arabs if you want to be free!
	And, you know, I don't deal well with that from an emotional standpoint, so I'll get frustrated and sort of yell and things like that.
	You can't really get the yelling as much on most of the Liberty shows because they don't have the caller interaction in the same way.
	So Free Talk Live offers a certain level of conflict.
	Yeah, I certainly had worked on a segment of yelling on my show.
	It was called Attack of the Hand Puppets, but I just couldn't find the right hand puppets to attack me, and it just looked kind of creepy.
	Well, a little more creepy than usual.
	Would you have then been yelling at yourself because it would be you playing the puppet?
	Not me, the hand puppet.
	You know, they take a life on of their own.
	There you go. And how has your relationship changed over the last nine years and your beliefs?
	How have they changed over the course of doing this show?
	Clearly, for me, and I think for Mark as well, we've become more entrenched or hardcore, whatever you want to use, whatever term you want to use in the liberty belief system.
	I probably would have been more of a libertarian when we started the show.
	Now I would describe myself as a voluntarist.
	Mark would have described himself as a Republican in the past.
	I don't know how he would describe himself now.
	I don't mind using the term voluntarist if somebody wants to use it.
	What my opinion is on voluntarism is that it It's something that we're going to achieve into the future.
	I don't know if that future is 100 years from now or 300 years from now.
	It's probably not 10 years from now.
	And it can be confusing to people if you start talking about things that are, you know, of a high level, the sort of grade A voluntarist stuff.
	If you're talking about private militaries and things like that, that can be difficult for people to internalize.
	I'll take liberty one step at a time.
	If that's the way it's going to be delivered to me, because I certainly don't believe the government does a very efficient job of delivering liberty.
	So if it gives me a little piece here and there, I'll be happy with that.
	Have you thought about, I guess, as you're sort of going over the 100 and sort of taking the big picture view, is there anything that you're going to change or alter or introduce over the next little while?
	Or is the formula working so well for you that you're going to stick with it?
	Yeah, I mean, it works pretty well.
	Open phones, panel discussion with a pro-Liberty viewpoint.
	We cycle in different personalities in throughout the week that are all obviously based here in New Hampshire.
	I guess something that has changed over the years is the show has taken on more of a reality show aspect since we moved to New Hampshire.
	Which is really something you don't get out of most talk radio that's, you know, a professional in the business kind of syndicated talk radio.
	You know, most of these, again, these hosts are people that just want to go in, flip on a mic, and then, you know, get a paycheck.
	Maybe they'll throw a concert and pander to some, you know, bring a politician in or whatever, but they're not going out and, you know, getting arrested, for instance, because of their activities and their actions that are based on their belief systems.
	So not only are we involved in the liberty movement here in New Hampshire and can talk about it from our personal experience, but we also have people in on the show regularly, both in the studio and on the phones, that are doing activism, not just in New Hampshire, but, you know, we just talked about tonight the D.C. protest that there's going to be this coming weekend where people are going to go down and dance at the Jefferson Memorial because some judge has decided that it's completely illegal to do something like that.
	So there's really a reality show aspect where people are talking about their activism and reporting on it and reporting their experiences with interacting with the police.
	And I think to some extent that encourages other people as well to emulate that where they are.
	Another thing is I think that we, over time, Visions of what talk radio was have changed.
	Initially, when we got into it, we were really, really combative with callers and each other, and we, I guess, believed that the best way to run a radio show, maybe not to be the most convincing, but to run a radio show was to be as controversial as we could about whatever issue, you know, to beat up the fine points and all those things.
	And Now we make a more so, you know, what I'm attempting to do over time, and Ian is too, is to convince the audience of the ideas, and the caller specifically, not just using the caller as a foil that we can,
	you know, Do whatever we want with, treat them like a tissue and toss them away, but to treat them like an individual and discuss with them the ideas in a manner that may be convincing to them.
	Less yelling and things like that, more just trying to be convincing.
	Yeah, I mean, just to echo what your experience has been, I've certainly felt that change over the past few years.
	I was more aggressive, more yelly, more combative when I first started.
	And part of me sort of felt like, you know, I think that stuff really works when there's a general or widespread acceptance of what it is that you're talking about.
	You know, then you can sort of say, over the hill, boys, charge!
	And you sort of go charging up the hill.
	You look around, you go, hey, good, lots of people with me.
	That's fantastic. Charge! You know?
	But if you go, hey, let's go over the hill, charge!
	And you sort of run up the hill and there's you.
	And it's like, hey, let's run back and figure out why nobody's following me.
	I think that has something to do with that.
	The phenomenon we've been seeing recently, like on our Saturday show, which is our biggest show throughout the whole week, because as I said earlier, it's easier to get stations on for that.
	But there have been some topics which in the past would have just inflamed and incensed the mostly conservative caller base that would typically call in on Joe America calling in on Saturday nights.
	I'm not recalling what the topic might be at this point, but there have been some topics where they would have been like gold for angry conservative callers who just didn't understand where we were coming from, where they aren't calling anymore.
	I don't know what it is.
	Let's see, was it raw milk?
	There's something else recently where, just generally, there's one conversation we had over the course of like three hours about government control Over people's lives and micromanagement and all this.
	We got no government-friendly calls in the whole three hours of the show.
	We've had that happening more often.
	I don't know what that means. I think it happens more often on every issue.
	One thing I think about what you were talking about as far as the rallying the troops and getting them to charge thing is The liberty message isn't going to be affected properly through the artifices of the United States federal government.
	There's no way to rally the troops to do such a thing.
	Whereas every single one of the people that's listening to our show has dealt in a negative fashion with the government And if you can talk to them about that issue that works for them, then you can sort of bring them on board.
	The Liberty message is unique in that We have something for everybody, left, right, center, whomever.
	The people that don't care about politics, we've got issues that work for them.
	Whereas the Republicans and the Democrats, what they've got is, I'm going to yell at you and beat you up about this issue until you finally agree with me.
	And very few people really sort of switch sides.
	And that's really all they've got, is the sort of yelling at each other from back and forth across the fence.
	Are there any topics that you find yourself rolling your eyes a little bit or like, oh, not again, or topics that you like in particular?
	The conspiracy theorists.
	I mean, we've been rolling our eyes about them for years.
	Occasionally, they'll still call in about their chemtrails or their harp or whatever nonsense it is.
	Their harp? Pushing.
	Yeah, the conspiracy theory that there's a giant radio transmitter in Alaska that is controlling the weather and or slash controlling your mind, etc.
	So, I mean, they're just, you know, they call over the years, but luckily they're not the majority of calls and they're occasional and we always, you know, we'll let them say what they want to say briefly and then, you know, question it and call them out and Have as much fun with them as we possibly can.
	Have there been any stuff which you first of all thought was more of a conspiracy theory that then turned out to be more true or anything that went the other way?
	Well, certainly, initially we poo-pooed the whole idea of gold and silver backing of the currency thing.
	You don't recall poo-pooing?
	You don't? Well, as a possibility, you mean, rather than as a theory?
	We didn't know anything about this stuff.
	I bought Liberty Dollars in 2003.
	This was in Sarasota.
	This was 2004.
	You didn't buy 2003. I think you're wrong on the dates.
	I've got them to show you. I'm sure I've got them.
	If you're a true libertarian, you have the receipt tattooed on the back of your neck, so maybe if you just lean forward and we can see.
	But anyway, go on. I disagree with him on that point.
	You know, as far as the conspiracy stuff goes, is there a group of people that want to control the Earth?
	I suspect there are several.
	Do they do things clandestinely behind the scenes?
	I think they probably do their best to.
	Whenever you start talking about conspiracies of hundreds, if not thousands, of people working together in order to get some job done, that's when I start getting extraordinarily skeptical.
	Right, right. I mean, not everyone can be as tight-lipped as Schwarzenegger over the past decade, for sure.
	And what are your favorite topics that people are bringing up?
	I know that changes over time, but at the moment, when do you sort of go, yay, I love this one, let's get this guy on for a while?
	I still love the war on drugs.
	That's still my pet issue and just because I know it inside and out and that's always fun for me.
	I like two things.
	I like to talk about wars in general.
	I've studied very hard on history to know as much as I possibly can about sort of conflicts in the 20th century and conflicts that the United States has participated in so that I can argue against the idea of having to use conflict to solve problems.
	And secondly, you know, I've got to admit that I've got this sort of nasty little desire to mess with Christians whenever I can.
	You know, I went to a Christian school.
	I was a Sunday school teacher.
	My mom had me going to church every week.
	And I've got to say that the whole story is that if you don't do what we say and do it how we say, we're going to send you to a place where you're going to be eternally tortured.
	To be an extraordinarily damaging story for me.
	And that, you know, upon breaking free of that, I tend to take it out on people that still believe the story.
	It's nasty, but I do it.
	Yeah, no, and I really sympathize.
	I mean, I went through the same thing, and it is a terrifying state of mind to put children in, particularly, you know, intelligent, high-strung, hyperverbal children who take literal things very allegorically sometimes.
	So, yeah, I completely sympathize with that.
	And it can be a little bit...
	It's very interesting how some people can have that experience, and it means nothing to them.
	They just kind of, oh, they just let it go, the whole religious thing.
	Whereas, you know, I mean, this is, it was absolutely terrifying to me.
	Right. Well, the best way to escape religion is to take it seriously, which is, I think, what we should do with ideas as a whole.
	The best way to escape statism is to take it seriously and say, okay, so giving a small group of guys all the guns in the world should be exactly what's going to happen.
	So let's start arguing for the use of force, the use of violence, the use of incarceration.
	For arbitrary rules.
	And you very quickly find that if you take bad ideas very seriously, they just dissolve.
	It's like trying to grab smoke or trying to, you know, eat candy floss.
	It just dissolves and goes away.
	So I think the people who just roll their eyes at religion, it's very hard for them to get away from it because they don't really feel its impact upon them for a variety of reasons.
	I'd say that's true. And what's your dream scenario?
	Let's not go five years in the future, but where would you like to be in the next year or two?
	If we talk again when you get to the next milestone, what would be the most satisfying thing for you to have achieved or series of things?
	20,000 liberty-minded people in New Hampshire.
	I mean, I've been plenty successful with my business over time.
	Obviously, you know, we're doing well.
	More stations are going to come on board.
	It's a monkey-see, monkey-do business.
	A lot of stations, they wait until they see that the other guys are doing it and then they come on.
	So the second 50 stations that we got came a lot easier than the first 50 stations.
	So from a business perspective, I'm sure everything is going to be fine.
	But really, the real critical aspect for me is to bring liberty-minded people together into the same place, and that's why we moved the show in 2006 from Florida to New Hampshire.
	So I think that change is the biggest factor in what's coming next, is getting people active and getting them together in the same geographic area.
	Yeah, I tend to feel the same way.
	I think that we're going to continue to add radio stations over time.
	I mean, whatever fears I had initially of, my God, Ian, you can't be an anarchist and be on the radio, has really evaporated.
	Apparently, he can, or, you know, a voluntarist or whatever term one wishes to use.
	One of our program directors in, I guess, I don't know, I'll say where, but one of the Alabama stations, we came to one of the conventions, and he was there, and And he told me that he calls it, you know, his personal alternative name for the show is something like Anarchy Radio, and he loves it.
	So, you know, there's a lot of people out there that, whether they agree or disagree with all of our ideas, they appreciate the viewpoint, and they like that it's being heard in those mainstream channels, you know, right next to the traditional conservative and the progressive talk shows.
	It really gives their listeners a break, and they appreciate that.
	The one thing that I hope for Ian won't go to prison for tax evasion.
	At this point, my life is a lot easier with him doing the main chair stuff.
	He does all the The gizmos and things like that.
	I don't want to have to deal with anything like that.
	That's what my wish is.
	And it is really tough to get good acoustics in a cell.
	It's tinny, there's lots of echo, and it's really tough to bring all of the sound equipment in and set it up.
	That is also my hope for you as well, Ian.
	Every once in a while you have to deal with sodomy.
	It's not good. Especially if it's on air.
	That's really good. That's tough to remain professional.
	That's overflown anyway.
	He knows! It's all about sodomy!
	There aren't very many radio shows that'll actually have co-hosts call from their prison cell, and we've had that happen multiple times, where we've actually had people call in to kind of give us an inside-the-bars report.
	It costs a lot of money when it comes to paying the phone bill, but I think it's worth it because it's an interesting perspective that most people don't hear on the radio.
	I also wanted to make sure that you guys got a chance because there may be some of my listeners or the watchers to the Freedom Aid Radio channel who aren't aware of where to get your show and how to get your show and what numbers to call in and how to access you and your website.
	So if you can give everyone the big blarp of contact info and show philosophy, I think they'd really appreciate that.
	Well sure, FreeTalk Live is an open phones panel discussion with a pro-Liberty viewpoint and it's available actually seven nights a week live.
	Mark and I do it six nights a week and we have on most of those six nights we have a third person in And then those third folks, they have their own show on Sunday night.
	So it's essentially an internet-only version of Free Talk Live, where it's kind of like the farm team show, where the guys that are normally on the third mics get to be on the first mic, and they get to experience what it's like to be the main host or the main co-host on the show.
	And so it's live seven nights a week from 7 to 10 Eastern Time at freetalklive.com.
	On a whole bunch of radio stations, which are all listed there.
	We've got XM Satellite Radio now, and so we've got a free-to-air satellite channel, which is for LRN.FM, where your show actually appears, as well as a number of other Liberty-oriented programs.
	So if Free Talk Live isn't your speed, it's not right for everybody, and that's part of the reason why I created LRN.FM. It was to bring different show hosts together, all of a liberty mindset, into the same place so that people could find somebody that maybe resonates with them a little bit better.
	So, you know, we've got live streams, we've got radio stations, we've got satellite, we've got a way to listen on your phone that you can just dial a long distance phone number and listen that way.
	So if you can't get Free Talk Live in your ears, then it's not because we're not trying.
	Yeah, lrn.fm is a great way for people who, you know, believe in the ideas of complete liberty to taste-dest different shows with different styles that essentially believe the same thing.
	So that, you know, for whatever reason, you know, you can go and get their mp3s.
	I bought a radio so that I can have, you know, a little fob that I stick in.
	And I actually, Stefan, I get your show on a pretty regular basis because why would I want to listen to me?
	You've got some parenting stuff in there that I found to be extraordinarily edifying for me.
	It's also kind of funny to hear the guy with the 24-month-old talking about parenting.
	But it's, you know, I think that I've learned a lot at the same time.
	Well, that's great. I really appreciate that.
	And thanks, of course, for the opportunities.
	We'll be seeing each other at the Porcupine Freedom Festival.
	You guys are going to be broadcasting live from Roger's Campground.
	What is that? The 22nd of the 29th?
	Did I get that right? The 20th through the 26th, and I'm looking forward to it as well.
	It's always great seeing you, Steph.
	And, of course, we'll expect that hopefully you'll find some time to sit in on a third mic with us.
	Oh, I'd love to. We were actually talking.
	I had a pretty epic debate with Michael Badnarik a little while back, a couple of years ago now, I suppose.
	On anarchism versus minarchism, we were trying to get him to come up.
	He can't, unfortunately, to come up.
	We were going to reverse positions, and I was going to argue for the minarchist position, and he was going to argue for the anarchist position.
	If you guys wanted to take that over as a show, it could be quite funny.
	I was going to come in with a, you know, a big ass wig, you know, like a foghorn leghorn southern politician to argue for minarchism in the Republican way.
	So we might want to do that as a show.
	It's just a toss out idea, see if we could hook up something like that at Porkfest.
	I think that could be quite a lot of fun.
	Well, I think that there'll probably be limited time for you to be on the third mic, so it's probably best if you present your position so that people who get to hear it on, you know, whatever, those hundred radio stations or whatever.
	Well, I don't know, Mark. We've got all week, and we're going to be there all week this time.
	I'll cut this part out of the final show.
	It's just something while I had you on the line I just wanted to mention as a possibility.
	I thought it would have been kind of fun too.
	I'd say it's a possibility. It would be more of a comedy thing.
	Maybe you could just sit in for me.
	I'll go drink. Perfect.
	I was hoping you could argue for anarchism.
	I can be the moderator. How am I supposed to do this?
	Hey, speaking of which, Stefan, on the cruise at cruise.freetalklive.com, we will be having a big page match, you, I, and West Bertrand over the, I guess, the morality of voting.
	Is that what your understanding of this debate is supposed to be?
	I prefer to call it a discussion.
	Yeah, I think discussion is probably better.
	We're all so aligned that differences are just shades on a wall.
	So yeah, no, I think that would be great fun.
	I think it's a really important discussion for people to have, though I think that it doesn't make much material difference in how we progress towards liberty, the actual act of voting.
	But yeah, I think it's worth having a discussion about it.
	It's quite a contentious issue, and I think it's worth getting all sides of the argument.
	Sounds good. We can video it, and people can watch it on the internet later.
	Beautiful. Well, listen, I just wanted to say to you guys, A, congratulations.
	B, I absolutely admire your work ethic.
	Your description earlier, a flip on a mic and wait for a paycheck, was actually my entire business plan, and still is.
	So I just wanted to really admire your work ethic.
	I know, having done some sales myself in the corporate world, that it's a lot of rejection, and you really have to put your heart on your line, because it's It's more than just a gig for you guys.
	I mean, this is a calling. This is a mission.
	This is a goal to elevate mankind to the next level.
	So when you're that passionate about what you do and you're that vulnerable towards rejection, I really wanted to just say that I admire the guts and thick-skinned resolution that it takes for you to pick up the phone and continue to expand your market base.
	That's hard stuff. And I just really wanted to express my admiration for that.
	Anybody could do it, but...
	We just did it when no one else did.
	I mean, it's not like I've done anything that's unusual as far as it's not difficult to pick up a phone and make phone calls.
	It's just that no one else has bothered and so we managed to pull it off first.
	I look forward to the day when there are all kinds of people out there doing really principled pro-liberty talk radio shows, and we can be eclipsed by whoever those folks are.
	Ian's not telling the truth.
	He stopped working at a regular job, and I think it was two or three years that he didn't receive a paycheck.
	He lived on savings and lived extraordinarily frugally.
	I continued to work.
	He lost away 400 pounds, and we all watched him slowly diminish into the muscular pencil figure that he is today.
	So yeah, I can understand that.
	And I worked a full-time job and got a paycheck while he continued to make these telephone calls when we moved up to New Hampshire in 2006.
	That's when I started working full-time as sales.
	Let's never pretend that it's been easy.
	I mean, let's not be too cocky about that.
	I mean, it's been hard. I mean, I took a huge pay cut.
	Everybody's saying it's hard to do.
	If it was easy, as they say, as Tom Hanks says in the...
	That baseball movie, you know, if it was easy, everyone would do it.
	So I think, you know, take the pride in having taken the hard road and having it had paid off.
	It's simple, but it's not easy.
	It is simple to do what we've done, but it's not easy.
	I'll accept that. But it's not like I'm out laying brick in the sun all day.
	That's hard work as far as I'm concerned.
	I have to pick up a phone and press some buttons.
	That's not hard. Agreed.
	Agreed. But I still admire you for doing it anyway.
	So I want to make sure that people check out Free Talk Life.
	You've got a whole community message board there and you really...
	No, don't check out the message board.
	Stay away from the message board!
	Why? What happened to your message board?
	Too many trolls? We love our trolls.
	We love our trolls. Okay, good.
	All right. Well, so don't go there for the message board, but go there and check out their website.
	Check out their radio show. Very dedicated crew.
	Very entertaining. Very enjoyable.
	Some truly exciting listenership.
	And, you know, these guys have been doing it a long time.
	They know what they're doing. And it's well worth checking out.
	So congratulations, guys.
	I'm absolutely thrilled. And I'm sure it will take much, much less time to get the next 100 and the next thousand, million, billion Interstellar after that.
	Let's end on a note of grandiosity.
	Well done and congratulations. See you soon.

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