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Dec. 12, 2010 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:27:16

1806 Sunday Call in Show 12 December 2010

Relationship propaganda, and getting out of poverty.

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	Hi, everybody.
	I hope you're doing well.
	It is 12-12-10, and thank you so much for joining the Freedom Aid Radio Sunday show.
	Sorry, in no show last week, I was yelling at various attendees in Phoenix at Ernie Hancock's 2010 Freedom Summit, which was most interesting and enjoyable, and I highly recommend it in the future.
	I've been invited back to Porkfest to have an interesting reverse debate.
	I'll sort of get into that a little bit more if I confirm that I can release the details with the planners.
	where I would be taking the devil's advocate position.
	And you can truly see how satanic my rhetorical skills can be.
	Please remember to vote if it's not the 15th of December 2010 yet at podcastawards.com for free domain radio under education and people's choice.
	And Free Talk Live, you can check them out.
	I think they're under politics and news.
	And if you prefer School Sucks to Free Domain Radio, first of all, give yourself a light spanking, just a light one.
	And second of all, be sure to vote for Brett Vinat's excellent School Sucks podcast, Under Education, which is a highly recommended show.
	So I've just released the multi-camera THX I'm going to go.
	At the Freedom Summit, I'm hoping that's going to be something that the audience is like, and I certainly enjoy doing it.
	So, you know, libertarian slash anarchist stand-up, not exactly the easiest genre in the world to do.
	Not exactly as easy as, you know, airline food and men not asking for directions and things like that.
	But still, Steph Bot likes a challenge.
	So, please check out that video.
	If you can, I will create a shortcut for it, fdrurl.com forward slash libertopia.
	Or you can just go to the homepage of freedomandradio.com and there's a link to the video right there.
	So, thank you for everybody who gave me the mostly positive but somewhat critical reception to my debut on the Alex Jones podcast.
	I'm sure Alex has disagreements with me.
	I'm sure I have disagreements with him.
	But if I can reach people with philosophy through any medium whatsoever, I'm generally prone to doing that.
	And so I'm going to be back on his show in January.
	So that's a good reach.
	It's been a good bump.
	To our conversation, we've just had a lot of extra new hits from people.
	And I'm sorry about the sound quality.
	There is a podcast where I recorded myself in a hotel room.
	I was already in Phoenix when the show came up.
	I have already recorded myself.
	And if someone can pop the number up, that would be great.
	But it's a much better video quality.
	We did have a lot of trouble with Skype, the phone system.
	Even the phone system, I guess they're all going through the same routers these days.
	But, yeah, WikiLeaks, good.
	I've done research into the sex scandal rape charges against Assange, which I'll be doing a video on, maybe later today.
	And last but not least, I'm going to stop the show just a few minutes early, and if anybody wants to stick around and brainstorm...
	The movie idea that I'm pitching, I could use some help with it.
	I've run up against the limitations of my own creativity, so I want to tap into the Borg brain, so just let James know if you want to stick around for a little bit more.
	After that, I'll just briefly talk about the plot and the challenges that I'm having.
	It'll be a graphics novel first, and then a movie.
	And all of this is made possible.
	All of this is made possible by you delicious, lovely people.
	Tasty baseball donators and supporters.
	Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to do what I'm doing.
	I'm not really paid for speeches, so it is on, to some degree, your dime that I'm going down.
	I hope, I hope, I hope that I do you proud, and if I don't, then please let me know any way that I can improve or anything that I can do to make your support and contribution to this philosophy conversation possible.
	Any more satisfying, any more positive.
	I am your willing, abject and highly oiled slave.
	So just let me know any way that I can make this conversation better for you.
	If you want more listener convos, just let me know.
	If you want more solo cast, let me know.
	I am extremely bendable to your desires.
	And there's a t-shirt in the making.
	So I just wanted to really express my sincere and serious appreciation for...
	You who make this truly wild and exciting ride possible.
	And thank you everyone who's written me recently to say that the podcasts seem to be getting better, which is good.
	I don't take that as a massive insult toward all of the prior podcasts, though it's tempting.
	It is tempting, but I decide not to do that.
	And thank you so much. I've had some good listener convos this last week, which I'll be releasing soon, as soon as they get a chance to review and let me know.
	So... Anyway, enough about Der Steffbottethead, so let's get to you, the real meat of the conversation, my delicio listeners.
	I think we have someone on deck, is that right, James?
	Yeah, just feel free to speak up, Mr.
	Biffo. Hi, can you hear me?
	Hi, yes, I'm...
	Well, I have quite a bit of nervousness when bringing up this topic, but basically I'm trying to go through a DFU issue.
	For the past three weeks, it's only been very recent that I've been very clear about my DFU, and I also posted on the board, but it didn't get much of a reception, so would it help if I read the Letter that I posted on the board can give a background to it all.
	Yeah, listen, can you just put the link in the chat window at all?
	Just because your sound is a little rough, so I'd rather read it from this end so people can hear it more clearly.
	The link. All I have in the URL is slashforums.aspx.
	So I'm not sure if you can go directly to that page.
	Okay, I don't know where the page is then, so why don't you just...
	Why don't you just read it and we'll hope it sounds alright.
	Okay, so you wrote, I guess earlier this month, I have arrived at the conclusion that I absolutely want a defu from my family.
	Whenever I am contacted by my mother, I feel extreme annoyance and anger at her.
	I do not want to waste more time out of my life with this woman.
	I do my best to avoid her.
	I am sure that further discussion of my feelings in childhood will only lead to my predicted outcomes, that she will be aggressive and emotionally manipulative.
	My childhood was not a good one.
	My parents did not have a happy relationship.
	They constantly argued, and sometimes it came to blows.
	My father was a doctor who worked all day and drank all night at a bar.
	He would come home in the early hours of the morning sometimes.
	He took me to the bars and drove me back in his car, drunk.
	I idolized him because I have always felt a distinct hatred for my mother.
	At around age 12, he suffered a stroke.
	And became permanently handicapped.
	He is now bedridden, experiences significant short-term memory loss, has a very bad temper, and behaves in a very abusive way to his caretakers.
	We went from a rich family to a poor one.
	It was an extremely stressful experience.
	I felt like I lost my father and was left with a mother who constantly nagged me and shouted at me when she lost her temper.
	I had to conform to her wishes after that.
	I was also very spoiled by my father.
	As a child I was belligerent, demanding, and passive-aggressive.
	During that time I was sent to a boarding school in Canada, allowed to feel the consequences of my actions for the first time in my life.
	I believe I have awakened.
	I have worked on my behavior and tried my best not to replay my abusive environment to friends and others.
	I feel more stable emotions and greater ability to feel joy.
	Looking back, I never realized the emotional horror I experienced as a child.
	I was surprised that after all these years of stress and trauma, I have not collapsed in a fit of depression and exhaustion.
	I lived in Hong Kong, now studying at the University of Toronto.
	The Freedom Aid radio conversation exploded into my life about a year ago.
	I cannot say I am the same person as I was back then.
	So much has changed in the way I behave, the way I think.
	It has guided me through my last year of school, and the answer, which was so obvious from the start, is now becoming less doubtful.
	Now that I realize that my family is a burning house, DFU is flashing across my mind every day.
	Should I keep going? Is there anything you wanted to correct so far?
	No. It's just the plan that comes afterwards that's different.
	And do you want to just give me the brief version of the plan?
	Yeah, basically, well, what's on the board is not my plan now.
	I'm planning to stay around in Toronto and maybe work over summers and take a few student loans in order to achieve financial independence.
	And yeah, that's basically my plan so far.
	All the practical details have been worked out.
	Right, right. Well, basically, the reason I called in is I want to discuss my mother more.
	Because I'm very up for this Kifu thing, though I'm not sure.
	I'm not absolutely certain now.
	I can't really tell.
	It's because I haven't found what exactly is it about my mother that gets me so angry.
	So I'm happy when she calls me.
	And I'm scared of the practicalities of the matter as well.
	Right. Right.
	Okay. Well, how can I help?
	I don't really know how to approach this.
	Like, I believe...
	I believe in the past my mother was much more abusive to me now, but now I can't really tell.
	Like, she tells me that she gives me much more freedom than most other people.
	I rarely ever talk to her nowadays.
	But I still feel very much a rage when she calls me.
	I don't really know where that comes from.
	Yeah. Whenever she calls me, she sometimes nags me to do things, but it's very much disproportionate to How my emotional reaction is.
	She calls me. She asks me to handle this errand or that errand.
	It's not much of a big deal.
	But then I feel enraged inside.
	I feel hatred inside my mind.
	It feels very destructive towards me.
	I don't really see that playing out in my personal life.
	I just really have no idea where it came from.
	You don't know where the hatred you feel now comes from?
	It's hard to identify.
	I've talked to a lot of friends about this difu issue, and they've asked me, so why would you like the difu from your family?
	And I've told them, well, my mother hit me in the head a few times when I was a child, and she had a very bad relationship with my father, but that was about all that I can remember.
	Yeah, it was really that hateful.
	And now she behaves in a much better way, but I still feel rage.
	Right, right.
	And where would you like to start?
	I'd like to start with...
	I'd like to start with when my father got the stroke.
	Like he got the stroke and then basically she was the primary caretaker then and I never had a father to run to because in the past I would be with my mother she would nag me and I would get very annoyed or she'd tell me to do something and maybe she'd shout at me sometimes but then my father would come back and well when he was gone I was basically exposed to my mother all the time and she became much less much less shouty And aggressive towards me at some point.
	I think it's because I grew up.
	The thing is, when I want to bring all these Dfue issues up to her, as I have in the past, about hitting me in the past or shouting at me in the past, I feel that she denies me.
	So when I go for the final conversation, if it is in fact the final conversation, I'm wondering what I should really bring up.
	To talk to her about, to clarify with her.
	I'm just really not sure what to do.
	All right. So you've had some conversations about issues you have with the family.
	You've had some of those conversations already, right?
	Yes. And it's safe to say that it has not gone very well.
	Is that right? Well, you hear this in the listener conversation.
	The listener talks to the parents and the parents says, we did our best.
	Or, oh, it wasn't popular for people to live with each other before they got married and get to know each other back then.
	Or, they say those sorts of things.
	And I just, I feel like there's an enormous cloud that I can't pin them down on.
	Like, enormous fogging that's going on and I can't really express it clearly to my friends when I try and explain to them what's gone wrong or when I try to explain to my mother what's gone wrong.
	Okay, okay. And so it hasn't gone very well in terms of having these conversations before, is that right?
	Yes. All right.
	And do you have...
	So you were more certain at some point and you're less certain now about...
	About having the conversation versus not having the conversation and separating.
	Is that right? Basically, yes.
	Sorry, go ahead. I'm feeling pretty sure about DFU. I would like to DFU from my family.
	I don't want to see them again.
	But then there's a lot of emotional anxiety that comes out of it.
	Yeah, I completely understand that.
	Yeah. Yeah, and also the practicalities after that.
	I've already heard a few podcasts that has encouraged me, but the main thing is that final conversation.
	I wouldn't really know what to do and when to do it.
	I go back this Christmas and I go back next summer.
	And in the intervening time, I'll also be attending a term at the University of Toronto.
	But basically, those are my opportunities to talk to her.
	And I plan to talk to her in the summer, not in the coming Christmas holidays.
	But I don't know if that should come about quicker or...
	Yes.
	Right, right, right.
	So it's a tough call.
	It's a tough call. I think...
	These are all just my opinions, right?
	So the first thing that I would say is that you really should...
	Have the conversation until you have some significant amount of certainty.
	Right? I mean, I think that's really important.
	Until you have some significant certainty, I think it's very important to continue to have conversations with people.
	You've heard me say that before, right?
	Yeah. Well, I think I feel emotionally certain about it, but then...
	When I talk to it about other people, I come out of these conversations, I'm pretty certain, I listen to your podcast, and it confers my conclusions.
	When I talk to friends, though, and I try and say, this is why I'm leaving this family, or this issue is why I'm not getting along with my mother or my father, and it just doesn't seem to ring with me as much when I think it, as when I try and express it to other people.
	Well, and do you know why that is?
	I think it might be some unprocessed issues, some things that I haven't looked at.
	No, it's not you. It's not me.
	It's not you. Could it be my friends?
	Yeah, yeah, right.
	This is what I'm going to tell you.
	There is an insane amount of propaganda.
	About the family. And it is incredibly primitive, people's perceptions of the family these days.
	And I'll give you an example of what I mean by that.
	So, if you had been in a 20-year marriage where you had experienced this kind of abuse, and...
	These days, you went to somebody reasonably enlightened, somebody who understood some basic issues of feminism and so on.
	And you said, you know, I've had all of these problems and I get yelled at and I've been hit a few times and I don't like it and it's unpleasant and I don't feel visible and blah, blah, blah.
	Right? I'm thinking of leaving my husband.
	Well, most people would say, hey, I can understand that.
	Right? Yeah.
	And even more so, if you had not chosen to marry your husband in the first place, right?
	If you'd been assigned to him by some cultural imperative or some religious ceremony or something, like if you'd been married after him at the age of 10, and he treated you the way that your family, your parents treat you, and you said, well, I'm thinking of leaving this marriage, most people would say, I mean, they hopefully wouldn't say, you should or you shouldn't, but they'd say, geez, I can totally understand that, right?
	Mm-hmm. Now, that's pretty new.
	That's pretty modern.
	I mean, in the past, really up until the post-war period in many ways, it's very new.
	In the past, divorce was virtually unthinkable.
	For a woman to separate from an abusive husband was virtually unthinkable.
	Right? And then feminists came along and said, no, no, no, no.
	You know, like, in order to have quality marriages, they have to be voluntary.
	Right? The only thing that produces quality in this world is voluntarism.
	And in a lot of places in the world, as someone mentioned in the chat room, it's still roundly condemned.
	Like, divorcing your husband.
	I mean, it's... Just try discussing it in Afghanistan.
	It's unthinkable. And I come from Hong Kong, so there's a lot of that Chinese family mythology that still hangs about most people's minds.
	Oh, yeah. I remember having a...
	Yeah, and Catholics, you still need permission from the Pope, for Christ's sake.
	And no, I remember talking to a Chinese fellow a couple of years ago on this show, and he had enormous problems, even...
	Even examining intellectually the question of voluntarism within the family.
	I mean, it's unthinkable. And so I just want to put this in perspective.
	I think it's really, really important to understand this situation, where you are relative to other people.
	This is really important.
	It is extraordinarily important.
	I'm trying to think of the best way.
	It is still unthinkable for most people to apply the concept of voluntarism to the family.
	In the same way that it was unthinkable, I mean in the feudal times it was unthinkable to think of voluntarism.
	In terms of your relationship to your feudal lord, like if you were being beaten by your feudal lord and you said, well, I don't really want to be his feudal serf anymore, people would say, well, that's unthinkable.
	You have to. God has placed him over us and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
	And the same thing was true...
	I know it sounds abstract, but I really want to put this in perspective for you, right?
	Economic volunteerism in the Middle Ages was unthinkable.
	It was unthinkable. You had to be part of a guild.
	You had to apprentice for seven years.
	You couldn't advertise.
	You couldn't even sneeze when somebody was walking past your stall at a medieval fair because then someone would say, bless you, and that was considered unfair competition because you'd be entering into a conversation with a potential customer, right?
	So volunteerism...
	In human relationships is extremely new.
	It's extremely new and it's only been applied to a few select areas.
	It's been applied to adult marriages It's been applied to your job to some degree, right?
	Like if you want to work a lot of places, you still have to join a union and that's not voluntary and it's enforced, right?
	But still, you are allowed some areas of voluntary interactions.
	But for the rest of it, ah, forget about it.
	It doesn't happen. You're not allowed voluntarism in your taxes, in any of the thousands of laws that are clusterfucking up the planet.
	You're not allowed voluntarism in your nationalism.
	You're not allowed voluntarism in travel.
	You can't just go work somewhere.
	You have to have all the right papers, right?
	You're not even allowed voluntarism to get on a plane, right?
	So there's a few areas where voluntarism is somewhat allowed in a relatively small number of countries in the world.
	So if you look at the world as a whole, and you look at voluntarism versus involuntarism, voluntarism is like looking up at the night sky.
	Voluntarism is the stars.
	But the space between is enforced associations, either culturally or violently enforced.
	So when you take the principles of voluntarism, which a lot of people would accept, not everyone, but a lot of people would say to a woman, look, if...
	A feminist go further than I would in many ways, but they say, look, if you're in an abusive relationship, it's a deal breaker.
	You must get out.
	You must get out.
	I mean, Dr.
	Phil has tens of millions of watchers, and if you ever sit down and watch one of his shows, and, you know, it can be a bit of a teeth-gritting experience, but if you ever sit down and watch one of his shows where a woman is being abused...
	He will actively tell her to get out, that it is a deal-breaker.
	Just not with the kids, sir.
	I'm sorry? You said before that Dr.
	Phil, he does all that, it's just that he doesn't deal with the kids.
	Oh yeah, no, of course. I mean, adult kids don't get that same advice.
	Of course not, because the majority of his listeners are...
	Our adults and parents themselves, so they don't want that.
	You don't want that message to go across.
	And there's also a very practical aspect that society does not want people to separate from their parents, no matter how abusive the relationship is.
	and why do you think that is?
	It exposes what the parents did.
	Well, I think that's true, but in very practical terms, who the hell is going to take care of the parents when they get old?
	Right, so siblings will often, right, circle the wagons and make sure that no sibling gets away because nobody wants to be stuck with the abusive jerks when they get old, right?
	I think I'm rather lucky that I'm an only child in this situation, man.
	Oh, okay, okay, okay.
	So when you go out into the world and you start talking about voluntarism in terms of the family, It is like going to the Middle Ages and talking about volunteerism in terms of the feudal lord.
	People are like, what?
	That makes no sense.
	That's not possible.
	You're wrong. And there's a huge amount of propaganda out about how you have to rise above.
	You have to be bigger than.
	You have to forgive.
	You have to understand that they did the best they could with the knowledge they had during a difficult time.
	There's a huge amount of propaganda out there.
	And I'll tell you this, my friend.
	The amount of propaganda is directly proportional to the amount of abuse in homes.
	Let me say this again.
	It's very important to understand.
	The amount of propaganda about the family is directly proportional to the amount of abuse that is going on.
	I don't need propaganda to keep my family together.
	I don't need a bunch of people convincing my wife to come back to me though she's desperate to leave me.
	I don't need a whole bunch of propaganda that I can club my wife and child over with and say, but I'm your husband and I'm your father and you owe me respect and you owe me allegiance and you owe me time and you owe me resources because I am your father.
	I don't need any appeal to those things because my wife loves me and my daughter really, really, really enjoys my company.
	Does that make sense?
	So if you have a lot of bad parents out there, and I damn well think that there are a lot of bad parents out there, if you have a lot of bad parents out there, you would completely and totally expect for them to substitute Cultural and emotional pressure for personal enjoyment and happiness within the relationship.
	And that is very widespread.
	So the moment you start talking about voluntarism in the family with the average non-philosophical person, you instantly slip into a language that is incredibly threatening to them.
	That is consciously entirely confusing to them.
	And all you do is you fire up the propaganda shouting in their own mind.
	And in order to not examine the voluntarism or lack thereof, or happiness or lack thereof, in their own familial relationships, it's like a programmed computer.
	Input, output.
	Propaganda is all about programming.
	It is the opposite of thinking.
	So you say to someone, taxes should be voluntary, and they say, no, there's a social contract.
	It's not because they've thought about anything and you ask them to define what that contract is.
	They have no clue. It's just input-output.
	They are computers.
	They are machines. They are robots.
	They can't think.
	All that happens is they hear a pattern of words come in and propaganda vomits out A series of words in response, without any thought, or reflection, or morality, or philosophy, or wisdom, or empathy, or understanding, or anything.
	So you say, I'm thinking of leaving my abusive family, and people will immediately say, no, you shouldn't.
	No, you'll regret it.
	No, you should rise above it.
	No, you should forgive them.
	No, you don't have kids, you don't understand how difficult it is.
	No, no, no. Like, it's just, you know...
	I mean, just by the by. I mean, it's so wearying and boring to hear all of this garbage that goes on, which passes to human communication, right?
	I've heard that so much.
	Oh, you're not dealing with any kind of thinking or present consciousnesses.
	You're dealing with tape recorders.
	You're dealing with...
	Do you know what it is? This is exactly what it's like.
	You ever call up tech support and you get those automated voice things?
	Yeah. You know that you're not talking to a human being, that you're talking to a pre-programmed voice box with a set number of responses and no capacity to dynamically process whatever you're saying, right?
	Oh, yeah. My parents hit me.
	Press one. Yeah.
	Your parents hit you. Oh, that's a shame, but things were different back then.
	You know? Oh, that's a shame, but I'm sure that they were better than their parents.
	Oh, that's a shame, but it's very important that you take the high road and rise above it.
	Oh, that's a shame, but forgiveness is a virtue.
	Oh, that's a shame, but they treat you better now, don't they?
	Oh, that's a shame, but, but, but, right?
	There's no thought that's going on.
	It's just like, it's like when you say we shouldn't, you know, governments are a mole and we shouldn't have them and people automatically say, well, then corporations would just take us over.
	Well, we just have, you know, wars in the streets.
	Well, there'd be no roads.
	Well, it's not because they've thought things through.
	It's just a, you know, it's just an objection robot that sits in their brain like a ninja and just blocks everything, you know.
	Here, I'm going to use some culturally specific metaphors.
	Not really. Ninjas are Japanese.
	I know, I know. Anyway...
	But this is what you're dealing with.
	You're dealing with propaganda robots.
	And this is not true with everything.
	If you talk to some of your friends about the music they love, they probably have some very interesting or literature that they love or movies or anything, right?
	They probably have some stuff that is thought.
	But when it comes to core values in society, you are not dealing with thinking, reasoning human beings.
	You are dealing with automatic messaging systems.
	I would no more go to the average person for advice on philosophical, moral, or personal issues than I would go to the average person, give him a set of pliers and say, my tooth is a little tender.
	Go for it. So you have to be careful about who you talk to.
	This is why I say to people who are contemplating this, please, please, please, Talk to a therapist who is experienced in this kind of stuff.
	Because in the same way that I say, look, if someone calls me up and says, my two-thirds, I say, well, it could be this, it could be that.
	When I had it, it was like this, but I can't tell you for sure.
	But for heaven's sake, go to a dentist, right?
	Go to a specialist.
	Go to somebody who knows what the hell they're talking about.
	Because the average person in society has no clue about philosophy, except to know that it threatens their...
	They're robot scaffolding, right?
	They don't know what they're talking about.
	They have no expertise. It's like going to your average bum on the street and demanding an explanation about quantum physics.
	They can't...
	It's asking them the impossible.
	Although, I mean, it's...
	Philosophy is not a series of knowledge in particular.
	It's just a series of...
	Let me explain this.
	Um... We are born with sight, and what happens is people put all this shit on our eyelids and crust it over.
	They put, like, clams and suction cups and those toilet bowl cleaners.
	They pull all this crap on our eyesight.
	Philosophy is just about pulling that shit off to get back to our natural vision, right?
	I mean, learning quantum physics is a big, productive, positive enterprise.
	You have to spend a lot of time.
	It's not intuitive. Philosophy is something we all completely get, right?
	You don't need a lot of To not understand quantum physics, right?
	It's hard to learn. You just have to learn.
	But when it comes to philosophy, we all have completely natural and universal values.
	My daughter is two and is a better philosopher than most of the people I've ever met outside of this conversation.
	She understands universal.
	She understands role reversals.
	She understands empathy. She understands curiosity.
	She understands impacts of actions on others.
	She understands that any rule that I give to her has to also apply to me.
	She's not even two. She's close.
	I should be two on the 19th.
	So she sees, right?
	It's just about peeling layers of bullshit off her eyeballs so that we can see again like we used to.
	That's really all philosophy is.
	Anyway, I know that's a long speech, but I really wanted to put this in some kind of perspective for you so that it's entirely predictable that when you were looking at philosophical values of abuse and voluntarism, And personal pleasure and no unchosen positive obligations.
	A family is an unchosen obligation because you did not choose to be born there.
	Children are a chosen obligation because you choose to have children.
	You do not choose to be born and you do not choose your parents, which means there are no unchosen obligations.
	Children have no responsibility To their parents at all.
	My daughter has no responsibilities towards me at all.
	She has no responsibility to obey me.
	She has no responsibility to do what I prefer.
	She has no responsibility to make me happy at all.
	Not a single one. She didn't choose to be here, and she sure as hell didn't choose me as a father.
	And so when you begin to apply that logic...
	And it's a lesser logic than women being allowed to leave abusive or sometimes even being encouraged to leave, or even more strongly by professionals being instructed to leave abusive relationships.
	Well, women chose to get married to their husband.
	Children didn't choose their parents.
	So why is it we should grant greater voluntarism To those who chose to be in relationships rather than to those whose relationships are involuntary.
	Well, of course, the involuntary relationship we also have is...
	Citizen to government. And we sure as hell don't want people questioning that.
	That doesn't help the ruling class at all.
	But just think of voluntarism in terms of children and education.
	Did you get to choose your school?
	Did you get to choose your classes or your subjects or your teachers?
	Of course not. All that shit is just inflicted on you.
	So applying the question of voluntarism to children and to the adult children of parents is really, really, really unsettling to people.
	So it's completely understandable that And I would say entirely predictable, which is not to say you should have been able to predict it because we're all stuck in this matrix to some degree or another, but that you would feel some certainty about your situation when you looked at it philosophically, but then when you started to lean upon social approval and understanding, your clarity dissipated.
	That's what people do.
	Well, I think I was pretty encouraged by the first few friends I spoke to.
	They all understood, and some of them who didn't quite understand said, yeah, you would do that.
	I could understand perfectly why you would do that.
	I wouldn't do that, but go ahead.
	I support you. But there was this friend who I had a conversation with, and I don't think we're friends anymore.
	But basically, that conversation, I talked about my family, and she started Going like, well, same things happened to me in my childhood, but I don't feel unhappy about it now.
	If you're unhappy about it, you shouldn't be fooled from a child.
	It's not abuse if you don't feel it.
	It was that conversation on that I started having doubts, but I think I predicted it.
	Let me go back, because didn't your other friends say, I wouldn't feel that way?
	Yes. Yeah.
	I certainly couldn't see that happening in my case or I guess I don't have the guts to do it in my case Which I guess is a bit more honest.
	Yeah Yeah, and well two more quick things like um I I've been trying to find a therapist, and I've been going to the people who have been around in residence, the counselors around in residence, and there haven't been much help.
	They just listen and all that.
	I don't think you can get a therapist in Canada for free, right?
	It's not part of...
	You can get a psychiatrist for free, if I understand it rightly, but I think you can get someone through your school.
	Okay. Yeah, there are some things to do with that.
	I think I'll look that up.
	And also, finally, I feel a certain amount of guilt because I haven't donated.
	And I would like to donate, but I don't have a credit card to donate online.
	Is there some way, like, since now I'm in Canada that I could somehow give money to you directly?
	Oh, yeah. I mean, if you want, you can just mail me something.
	That's fine. But, you know, first and foremost, don't worry about donating.
	And I appreciate everything that you're saying.
	You know, don't worry about donating.
	But what you should be concerned about is making sure that you get to a therapist.
	They're much more important than donating.
	I certainly will. Yeah, like, do that first.
	And then, you know, maybe then think about donating.
	But... But don't, you know, I mean, I appreciate that.
	I mean, if you want to hand the show URL out to other people, you know, that's fine.
	You know, if you feel comfortable doing that, that's fine.
	I was thinking, like, now and then, I actually see relatives around this area, and that's another thing, like the food circle.
	They're out in Toronto as well.
	And they sometimes drop a lot of money on me.
	And I was thinking the next time they drop a lot of money on you, I might just as well hand over that money to you.
	Well, again, look, I appreciate that, and I'm not going to reject your wonderfully kind generosity, but if I remember what it's like being a student, it's hard going.
	Particularly if you're thinking of taking a break from your family, then it's hard going.
	So you might want to hang on to that money and...
	If at the end of your education you have a pile left over, you can give me some portion of it if you like, but I would really, really suggest making sure that your bases are covered for your education first and foremost, because it can be tough going alone.
	Not to say, but I really do appreciate the sentiment, but I would much rather get donations knowing that it wasn't going to be harming any kind of interest of yours, if that makes sense.
	Thanks for that, Stefan.
	It's helped me clarify, and I'll have to take that away and talk to some other people about it.
	Yeah, and talk to your student union.
	There may be, I mean, lots of students, they need services when they're in school because of stress or X, Y, and Z.
	So I would definitely talk to people in your student union and ask them about that kind of stuff, whether you can get free or certainly subsidized counseling.
	I think that that does work when you're in school.
	But, I mean, I was in school a long time ago.
	Maybe it's changed, but that would be my suggestion.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Thanks, Steph, and keep up the great work.
	Thank you, and my very, very best wishes, and I hope that it works out for you either way.
	I know that it will, but I hope that it works out sooner rather than later.
	Bye, sir. All right, take care, man.
	Best of luck. All right, room has opened up.
	Hello? Hi, is this morning?
	Yes. Hello.
	I just recently joined your website.
	So I'm just a first-time listener.
	Ah, well, welcome.
	Yeah, well, okay.
	Well, I've been watching some of your videos on YouTube.
	So I think, yeah, they were pretty convincing.
	So anyway, my question would be...
	Right now, I'm 18 years old right now in high school.
	I'm trying to figure out, like, I'm kind of dependent on the government.
	I'm trying to figure out a way to, you know, be independent.
	Is there any way you can help me with that?
	In what way are you dependent?
	Oh, I'm kind of part of that dependent class that you talk about.
	You know, the welfare system.
	In what way? As in like food and shelter, all the basics.
	Oh, so you mean you're receiving welfare checks for that sort of stuff?
	Yes. Well, not me exactly, but my mother.
	Your mother is. Okay, so your mother's on welfare and you're concerned about the dependence upon the state?
	Actually, I've been concerned about two years, but I couldn't figure out how to leave the system.
	So I was hoping you could help me, give me some options.
	Well, there are really only three things that you have to do to get out of poverty.
	And this is not just my opinion, this is like...
	Pretty well proven scientifically.
	There are three things that you need to do.
	The first is that you need to finish high school.
	Okay. You don't have to tell me what your status is, but this is what you need to do.
	You need to finish high school. The second thing that you need to do if you want to escape poverty is you need to Not have a baby outside of marriage.
	Yeah, I'm pretty clear on that part.
	Okay, good. Roughly two for two.
	Good, good, good, good, good.
	Okay, now the third thing that you need to do is you need to stay for about a year at your first job.
	Well, the trouble is finding one first.
	Look, I understand that.
	Look, I understand that.
	But what I'm saying, this is not, like, easy, but this is what needs to be done in order for you to get out of your situation.
	Right. Now, so those things we understand, and this is, again, this isn't just my opinion.
	This is pretty well established sociologically.
	Right. So, the only thing that you need is a job, right?
	Yes. And, of course, the question is, how the hell do I get that, right?
	Yeah, well, minimum wage isn't helping either, so.
	What do you mean? I would suggest they would abolish it, but I don't think anyone would listen to me.
	Oh, yeah. Trust me, they don't listen to me either.
	I mean, my why you were unemployed part one got me significant amounts of rage from people because...
	I understand the destructiveness of minimum wage and regulations, all that.
	Right, right. Yeah, so go ahead.
	Right. So what do you like to do?
	Oh, as a career?
	Yeah, not even as a career, but what do you like to do just outside of a career?
	I haven't thought about it much.
	I've been looking at, just career-wise, I've been looking at maybe engineering or something of that sort.
	So engineering and stuff?
	Something, yeah, or in finance.
	Anything that can give me a decent living and that's wanted in the marketplace that's demanded.
	Right, right, right.
	Well, I think those are good things to aim for.
	Of course, they are going to require some higher education, which I'm sure is entirely fine.
	You know, if you listen to this conversation, I simply assume that you're just really smart.
	And also because you're younger, I assume that you're smarter than me, just because genetically, that's the way that things go.
	So you will be able to manage all of that stuff.
	I guess the question is, how are you going to get into those things, right?
	Yeah. Well...
	As for in education, you know, there's some problems of, you know, the higher education system with all these student loans and graduates can't find work and 85% of them moving back with their parents and all that, all the news.
	Like, I've lost a lot of, you know, trust in that system to see if it can help me or not.
	Oh, listen, I completely understand that.
	I mean... When I graduated, it was the middle of just a horrendous recession.
	And I couldn't even get a job as a waiter.
	I mean, I got just crazy bad jobs like weeding gardens.
	I took some old lady around because her family was busy and she'd come to visit.
	I took her to like the zoo.
	I mean, that was my job back in the day.
	So I completely understand that.
	That stuff doesn't last forever.
	I mean, I'm not sure that we're going to get back to that same kind of stuff that we had before, but it's not going to last forever, that stuff.
	And so, by the time you graduate in a couple of years, it may not be the same.
	I'll be graduating this year, actually.
	It's my last year in high school.
	Oh, high school, right, right. And so, you know, if you go and get a couple of years degree, then you're looking at, you know, 2014 or 2015.
	Oh. And the situation could well be different at that point, right?
	Depends, because I've been listening to other economists from the Mississippi Institute, like Peter Schiff.
	They're not very optimistic of the economy.
	And you're in the States, is that right?
	Yes. But then you leave the States, right?
	Right. Yeah, well, that was the problem, finding how to leave.
	Well, no, no, no. Look, you are putting up way too many obstacles, right?
	I mean, it's the journey of a thousand miles is a single step, right?
	So you want my advice.
	This is my advice, right? So figure out what it is that you want to do and then figure out the steps that you need to achieve it.
	Now, does that mean that you're going to be certain about it and it's going to work out for the rest of your life?
	I strongly doubt it.
	Right? So I originally started taking an English degree, and then I went to the National Theatre School, and then I took a history degree, and then I did a master's, and then I went into software, and then I started writing novels, and then I did podcasting.
	Right? So it may change a lot.
	But the education helps in general.
	In general. Right?
	Because, I mean, there's some stuff you simply can't do.
	You can't be an engineer without...
	You can be a software...
	I guess you can be a computer programmer without a degree, and if you like that kind of stuff, then you can take that approach.
	Right? But if you're going to say, well, I don't know what the economy is going to be like in five years, and I don't know exactly how I'm going to leave the United States, then you're trying to plan your life half a decade down the road.
	That is never going to work.
	You simply cannot plan your life half a decade down the road.
	Because who knows?
	Who knows?
	There may have been some massive change in the system.
	I mean, my prediction is that the system is going to collapse, and we're going to be a hell of a lot freer afterwards.
	But that's my prediction. Things are going to be a hell of a lot better after the re-evaluation of the currency.
	I mean, I won't get into historical examples.
	I mean, I just did those at the Freedom Summit, and those will be online.
	But instead of surrendering your choices to the whirlwind of what-if...
	You just have to plod forward.
	It's like you're in a snowstorm. You just have to keep moving, even if you've lost your bearings.
	And so I try myself to live as though I'm free, because if you don't, then you've already lost your freedom.
	So if you say, well, I want to be an engineer, but I don't know if there are going to be any jobs, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to leave the U.S., then you're allowing the state to take away your freedom to pursue engineering.
	I guarantee you, somewhere in the world, they will need an engineer in five years.
	I guarantee you.
	It may be in China. We may all end up living in China because it's going to be the most free country.
	Or India. Right?
	The Chinese government already owns significantly less of the national economy than the British government does.
	You are far more free to be an entrepreneur in China than you are in England or the United States.
	So maybe that's where we all move to when we set up an FDR teepee city outside of Beijing.
	I don't know, right? But the thing is that there will be somebody who needs an engineer in five years.
	I guarantee that. And so given that you know that, you can pursue engineering knowing that you may not step out of the graduation hall and into the waiting arms of an eager employer, but somebody's going to need your skill set somewhere in the world.
	Plus you speak English, which is a very good thing in the economy.
	Correct. So, well...
	Oh, are you in the chat room at the moment?
	Oh, no. I'm here. No.
	No, sorry. Are you in the chat room on the Freedom Aid Radio website?
	Just because somebody has some suggestions for you.
	Or, if you want, Tim, if you want to jump in the call, you're welcome to give them suggestions directly if you think it would be helpful to others as well.
	He's young too, so he may have even more relevant things to say than some guy in his 40s.
	Well, I'm glad to hear it if he wants to.
	Well, usually...
	Usually I tend to overthink things sometimes.
	I don't know why, it's just a problem I have with myself.
	I tend to look in the long term rather than the short term, so sometimes I can't follow through with any plans because they always keep changing over and over.
	Right, and that's because you are trying to sail your ship now by how the wind is going to be Three days from now.
	And you can't do that.
	You understand? You have to sail with knowledge of a goal, but you have to sail with the winds as they are now.
	You have to, because nobody knows what the world is going to look like five years from now.
	It could be a lot worse. It could be a lot better.
	It sure as hell isn't going to be the same.
	But there will always be a need for intelligent, skilled people in the world.
	And accumulating human capital It's a good way to avoid problems with the state because the state always needs people with human capital, right?
	So if the state does turn nasty or nastier, you want to have as much human capital as possible so that you're a value, right?
	Like if the farmer is going to cull the herd, you want to be the person who's producing the most milk, right?
	Because then he's not going to get rid of you, right?
	Well, one...
	A major problem would be for me is actually it was very difficult leaving the system.
	You know what I'm saying? Once you're a part of it, you pretty much become attached to it.
	You mean you get attached to it?
	Yes, exactly.
	How should I say this?
	It's like it's a magnet.
	Every time you try to leave or find a way to leave, it just draws you back in.
	Sure. So how can you combat that?
	Don't combat it. I would suggest not combating it.
	If your mom's on welfare, you can probably get some pretty sweet deals from the government to go to school.
	But wouldn't that be, you know, like I've been suggesting that it's not a good idea or it's not really a practical thing to do because it's wrong?
	No, no, no. Look, look, look.
	I'm going to tell you what I think you're doing.
	I think that you don't want to act and so you're inventing all these reasons to block you.
	I think that you have to go with the reality.
	This is not a political decision for you.
	This is not an economic decision for you.
	This is not based upon your thorough assessment of what the economy is going to look like in five years or whether it's going to be easy or hard to leave the United States in five years.
	I guarantee you that is not your motivation.
	You are afraid to act.
	And my guess is if your mom's on welfare, you probably don't have a strong template for how to get things done and how to get ahead in the world and how to take risks.
	Right? So you don't have that template.
	And so your future is asking you to do something that's really uncomfortable for you, that you don't want to do at an emotional level.
	And so you're saying, well, there are these philosophical and economic reasons why I'm not going to do these things, or why these things, I shouldn't do them, right?
	But I guarantee you, it's got nothing to do with those things.
	And I'm not saying that Philosophy is irrelevant, and I'm not saying that you're not interested in truth and values and goodness, but I have given you, you know, probably four or more strong suggestions, each of which you have immediately rejected as impossible.
	And what that tells me is that you're very interested in saying things are impossible without evaluation.
	Right? Look, you know I came from a horrendously poor background, right?
	Well, actually, I didn't know much.
	I've only been recently...
	My mom has been on welfare and disability for like a quarter century.
	I've been on my own, funding myself for the most part since I was about 15 years old.
	I came from a dirt-poor neighborhood.
	We never had a car.
	I took maybe three vacations in my life.
	We didn't have toys.
	We were out of food.
	We got eviction notices.
	I joined a swim team and I couldn't cough up seven bucks to pay for my swim team membership, so I had to keep saying I had forgotten my money at home.
	Like, that's the kind of poor that I grew up.
	And I sure as hell did not have examples of people who got things done and got ahead and made sensible decisions.
	So I think I get where you're coming from.
	And I'm saying this is the way out and I've proven it by doing it.
	And you're saying to me, well, it's not possible.
	So if you're saying to me, me of all people, right, who's, you know, been where you are, maybe even in a worse place.
	So I'm saying to you, this is how you can get out.
	And you're saying to me, no.
	But I know it's not no because I've done it.
	And I did it when there were recessions and banking collapses and national debts and all these sorts of problems.
	I'm not trying to sort of pump myself up here, but what I am saying is that there's considerable evidence that what you're avoiding is the panic or the anxiety of stepping into an unfamiliar realm called personal initiative, ambition, and achievement, right? Yes, I would agree with that.
	Right. So, I've never held the position that taking student loans is immoral.
	Or student grants. I've never held that position.
	I think it was podcast 100 or 99 or something where I was encouraging a guy to do just that.
	I have not changed that in the five years since I made that podcast.
	It is a state of nature.
	Food gets stolen from you and the government puts on a buffet.
	So go take some food back.
	The government locked you up in a bullshit indoctrination cage for 12 years of your life.
	So go take something back.
	I have no problem with that.
	I think it would be crazy not to.
	If the mafia takes your money and then throws on a free barbecue with your money, go get a fucking burger.
	It's not saying that the theft is okay.
	It's saying, that's my burger, right?
	Right. Just reclaiming what was taken.
	Right. And...
	Your mom has been, you know, I mean, I don't know anything about her, but the system as a whole is terrible, has been sucked into a system where she's become dependent, and the government is not taking any steps to get her off the welfare rolls.
	In fact, they're probably taking steps to keep her on.
	Right? So her initiative has been undercut, undermined, and probably destroyed.
	So, you need to think about Your life, your pleasures, your preferences, your ambitions, what you want.
	What kind of life? Tell me, what kind of life do you want to be living when you're 30?
	When you look around your life when you're 30, it seems like a hell of a long way away.
	12 years could go pretty quickly, I'll tell you.
	But what do you want when you're 30?
	I would... Probably not like to be in debt.
	Have my own place basically and live in a pretty safe neighborhood in general.
	Calm, peaceful environment basically.
	Alright. Do you want to be married?
	No. You don't want to be married.
	Do you want to have kids? No.
	Alright. So you need some money obviously to live in a A decent neighborhood to live in a good neighborhood.
	I assume that you want to be doing some work that you enjoy and not, you know, flipping burgers or something, right?
	Yes. Right.
	And so you need to avoid the fate of the people who are locked in your situation, where if you do nothing, all you do is float downstream.
	And eventually there's a waterfall called you're dead and you fall over it and get smashed on the rocks, right?
	That's all that happens if you don't swim against the current, right?
	Yeah. I would say that your ambitions are fairly modest.
	I think that you may want to expand your horizons a little bit.
	And I think that probably like you're looking for a comfortable hole in the cave to nest, right?
	Yeah. Yeah.
	Well, look, if you're listening to this conversation, that is not going to be enough for you, in my opinion.
	Right? What about being a force, a powerful force for good in the world?
	Would you like to do that? Sure, I mean, I would probably be, if I could be a philanthropist, I would probably take up that position as well.
	Well, you can be a philanthropist if you have five dollars in your pocket, right?
	You can be a philanthropist by treating people well, by standing up for the downtrodden verbally, by introducing people to the joys and challenges of philosophy and self-knowledge.
	You can do all of these wonderful things if you're stone broke, right?
	Yeah. Well, I kind of do that now at school.
	I try to explain these positions, but sometimes there is some opposition.
	Yeah, of course there's opposition.
	It wouldn't be any fun if there were no opposition, right?
	I mean, I like what Freud says.
	He said, more enemies, more honor.
	The more enemies you have as a virtuous man, the more good you're doing in the world, right?
	Right. Right, like if you come up with a counterfeit detection machine that doesn't work, Then the counterfeiters, they don't hate you, right?
	Right. If you come up with a counterfeit detection machine that works over a five-mile radius and instantly pinpoints everyone, then the counterfeiters, they hate you, right?
	Right. Because you've just detonated their livelihood, right?
	So if you don't have any enemies, you're not doing any good.
	That's just the reality of trying to do good.
	Of trying to do good in this world.
	If nobody doesn't like you, you're not doing your job.
	Because it means you're not harming any bad people's interests.
	Yes. So, I would say that having high ambitions is a worthwhile thing.
	Because in my experience, and I've definitely gone both ways this way.
	In my experience, my friend...
	If you have high ambitions and you don't reach them, that is not nearly as upsetting as having low ambitions that you don't exceed but could.
	Does that make sense?
	Yes. Okay. Smart guy.
	Smart guy. Yeah, you have to have high ambitions with a brain like that.
	Okay. So, yeah, work on what it is that you would want to do.
	If the world were free, if the world were perfect, what would you want to do?
	Focus on that. And you can, I mean, there's people here who would like to help you, want to chat with you.
	Sit down with counselors.
	Go to your university and talk with people about how you achieve these things.
	And you can explain a little bit and say, look, I'm kind of a wolf child when it comes to ambition.
	I was raised by people who weren't ambitious or who didn't achieve what they wanted, so I need some help.
	Don't be afraid to ask people.
	People really do like to help if you ask them.
	Don't try and pretend that you aren't deficient in certain kinds of knowledge.
	I made that mistake for a long time, and it was not good for me.
	So I'm trying to pass that hard one piece of wisdom.
	If you don't speak the language, don't pretend that you do because you just bewilder and freak everyone out, right?
	So, you know, you need some help probably in defining and achieving your ambitions.
	Again, I think therapists are great with that.
	Life coaches are great with that.
	Obviously, finances are tough, but you can get lots of help for free by just going to tour the college campus and sit down with...
	I'm a kid from the welfare sticks.
	I'd really want to become an engineer.
	Can you tell me a little bit about what I need to do and how I need to do it?
	People will be happy to give you 10-20 minutes, which can make...
	The difference between a year or two wasted or used.
	So, you know, go and ask the people who've done it and then don't tell them that it's impossible because the government runs the fiat currency because that's not, I think, being realistic about where the obstacles are for you.
	Okay.
	Well, this, I don't know if this is really a problem or not, but since I am the oldest child, I've been, you know, been told that once I do get older and become successful, I have to help been told that once I do get older and become successful, I but I can't even help myself, so how do I... Do I just not care for now, or...
	Look, if you want to help your family when you get older, then you can do that.
	You don't have to. You're certainly not obligated to.
	But I kind of see that as a barrier for me from being successful because the amount of time it takes, you know, helping them and then managing my own time, it kind of gets difficult for me.
	I have that problem now.
	Well, let me ask you this. There are people older than you in your extended family?
	Yes. And how much are they helping you at the moment?
	Well, it's kind of complicated because there was a split.
	No, no, I understand that.
	I understand that. I'm just asking you the question.
	I mean, sorry, I shouldn't say I understand that.
	I'm just asking how much are they actually practically, forget all of the, right, but how much practically are they helping you at the moment?
	Just one person.
	One person who's helping and how is he or she helping?
	Like, you know, giving me advice and things like that.
	Okay, good. So then, when you get older, and I think this is a good thing to do for people, when you get older, you can give people advice, and you can help them out that way.
	And that's actually the most valuable thing, that you can give somebody, is wisdom.
	Money is not a valuable thing to give, except...
	When donating to FDR, right?
	Service, whatever, right? But money is not that valuable a gift to give to somebody, right?
	It doesn't actually help them.
	Money problems are certainly never solved by money.
	So, yeah, then give them your help and your advice and your wisdom when you get.
	I think that would be a useful thing to give, and I think it would be a helpful thing to provide to other people.
	So I don't think that's a huge barrier, is it?
	I mean, I'm sure you would be Right.
	Right.
	Right.
	But, I mean, if you're concerned about like, okay, so the moment I get money, what I'm going to do is I'm going to have 600 family vultures come in and pick my bank account clean, well then you just have to say no to that, right?
	Yes.
	Yeah, I mean, you just have to say no to that.
	Even if you want to desperately say yes to it, you have to say no to it because it is unhealthy to enable that kind of behavior in others.
	Right? I mean, parasitism is like alcoholism, right?
	You don't give parasites money and you don't give alcoholics a drink.
	You can give them help, you can suggest a good therapist, you can listen, but you don't give them the money.
	I mean, there are times, I think, where financial generosity can be helpful, right?
	I've borrowed money from friends in my life, I've lent money to people in my life just because they hit in a certain cash and then they pay me back a couple of weeks later.
	And that's, you know, I think that's perfectly fine.
	But it's definitely not...
	Just giving money to people because they have money problems is just a bad idea.
	It's a really bad idea, and it's very bad for families and friends.
	All right.
	Well, also I would like to add that...
	I forgot what I was going to ask.
	No problem. Well, what if someone had like a psychological problem which prevented them from, you know, getting better?
	Well, like what? This is a mental problem.
	But like what? Let's see, like stress, like huge amounts of stress.
	Well, like, give me an example.
	I mean, I can't answer that in the abstract.
	Sorry, like, say, schizophrenia or something like that?
	Is that the case in your family?
	Yes. All right.
	Well, again, I'm no expert, right?
	I'm certainly not qualified, but you might want to check out some of the stuff that's on the net that there appears to be some significant ways that Schizophrenia can be treated even outside of the drug.
	There are some therapies that seem to be having some effect.
	And you can look up Siegel, S-I-E-G-L-E, for some of that.
	And I think you can also look up Daniel Mackler, M-A-C-K-L-E-R, Greg Siegel, S-I-E-G-L-E. And they have, I think I did a talk with Greg Siegel.
	And you can look for that on the website.
	They may be able to help with that.
	I think that if it is something where there's no particular cure, then, well, you're paying a lot of taxes, and the government helps out with this kind of stuff.
	And so I wouldn't double-tax myself if that were possible.
	But is this a sibling?
	No, a parent. Oh, so a parent who has schizophrenia?
	Yeah, my mother. Oh, I'm so sorry.
	I'm so sorry. Okay, well done.
	Changes some of the equation around ambition and so on.
	That is a great challenge.
	What I would do in your situation is I would try and find societies or support groups around who have had this kind of issue or this kind of problem.
	And that having been said, it may be that you can help her But it also may be that other people might want to step up and do more helping.
	Because if you've dealt with a schizophrenic mother for most of your childhood, then you might be kind of out of benevolence juice, so to speak, right?
	Because it's a real strain, right?
	Yes, it can be very frustrating.
	Oh my God, I completely understand that.
	I mean, I really, really understand that.
	So it might be time, you know, you might sort of want to sit down with your extended family and say, you know, look...
	I've been handling this for 18 years, 18 of my formative years.
	It's time for you all to step up and take over a little bit here because I've got to start getting on with my life and I've been living with this woman for this long and it's been exhausting and debilitating and stressful and so on.
	And so you're all going to have to step up.
	And if they don't do it, then you have to talk more to social services and get them involved and so on from the government.
	Actually, all of that's already been done before I made this call.
	I've been dying for three, four years, but it hasn't gone anywhere.
	What, you mean the government won't help?
	Well, they tried.
	There's been some conflict, and so it just all broke apart.
	You mean your mom won't accept any treatment?
	Yes. Right.
	Or any help from anyone else.
	Literally no one. And has she received a formal diagnosis of schizophrenia?
	Yes. And when was that done?
	2007, I believe.
	Right, right. Yeah, look, I mean, that's a tough call.
	I mean, no one can tell you what to do, obviously, in this kind of situation.
	I mean, my mother is certainly not the most mentally stable and healthy of individuals.
	So, if she won't accept help, then you have a choice to make.
	I mean, you have a choice to make, and it It is an absolutely terrible thing that you have this choice to make.
	It really is terrible.
	Just out of curiosity, when did your mom start to exhibit these symptoms?
	2004, 2005.
	It was just minor, and then it just got worse as time progressed.
	Right, right.
	And... So, she's not accepting any help.
	Is she able to function on her own?
	It's the lack of trust with people.
	This is paranoia?
	Is that what you mean? Right. Yes.
	Yes. Right. Is she able to function on her own?
	In a basic level, yes, but...
	So, she's not going to stop the death or whatever, right?
	No. Right.
	Right. And obviously, she's not going to take any meds, right?
	Because she feels that... Doctors are going to poison her or whatever.
	Absolutely not. Yes, yeah. Right, right, right.
	Oh, it's all too familiar.
	Yeah, look, I mean, I can only tell you the decision that I've made.
	I can't say that this decision is right for everyone because this is not a moral issue, right?
	This isn't, you know, should you go strangle a homeless guy, right?
	I mean, this isn't a moral issue.
	The decision that I made was I strove as hard as humanly possible to To get help from my mom.
	And I got her significant help.
	And she rejected it all.
	Yeah, exactly. Right.
	And I then began to examine within my own heart and in my interactions with my mother, do we actually have a relationship with In other words, does she recognize my existence, my preferences, my needs, my identity at all?
	Now, in my experience, this was no.
	There was no. If I conformed, everything was okay.
	If I had any perspectives or opinions or preferences which conflicted with my mother's immediate desires, there were huge blowups, explosions, abuses, and blah, blah, blah.
	And for myself, there was nothing I could do.
	There was nothing that I could do.
	Whether I was there or whether I wasn't there was fundamentally immaterial.
	Because when I was there, I wasn't there.
	All I was doing was appeasing.
	All I was doing was conforming.
	I was not in the room when I was in the room with her.
	Now, in my mother's case, and I obviously don't have any proof of this.
	This is just the theory that I'm working with.
	Without, you know, we don't have to get into any particular details at this time, but bad things that she had done in the past, to me, were the root cause of what occurred for her later in life.
	I think the conscience is a bitch, right?
	If you don't do the right thing.
	And My understanding, you know, amateur and all, hour and all, is that schizophrenia tends to emerge in the teenage years.
	It doesn't usually show up.
	I think it's pretty rare that it shows up later on.
	So it may be something else, right? So for my mother, I believe it was conscience that got her.
	And I couldn't do anything about that for two reasons.
	One, I was the victim, and the victim...
	The only... The only person who can forgive the abuser is the abuser and that abuse, sorry, that has to be earned through restitution, right?
	Forgiveness is not something that you can grant or give to someone.
	Forgiveness is something that must be earned and fundamentally it's a judgment of your own.
	It is not a judgment of other people because if other people forgive you when you don't, it just drives your guilt underground.
	And if other people don't forgive you and you do, then they don't have the power to harm you.
	So forgiveness for past misdeeds is not something that can be granted, not something that can be willed.
	It has to be restitution.
	So, and again, I'm just talking about my own experience here, which may give you some clarity, maybe completely immaterial to you, but I'll just finish up here.
	And so I could not solve my mother's tortured conscience because A, I was her victim, or at least one of them, and B, because restitution was impossible.
	Because there's no amount of money or beauty or health or longevity or fame that I would trade as an adult to have received the childhood that I received.
	There was nothing.
	And so restitution had become impossible, and therefore I couldn't do anything for her.
	And, you know, there's a time when you're so sick from lung cancer, even a lung transplant isn't going to help you.
	And that's sort of where things were with that.
	So for me, I made the decision to not have anything more to do with her.
	I couldn't help her. I couldn't, you know, resources were available to her if she wanted them.
	She wasn't so crazy that she didn't understand that.
	And I couldn't have a relationship with her because I wasn't allowed to have any existence or being there.
	And frankly, my perspective was, look, my mother has had her life.
	She has made her choices.
	She has made her choices.
	She got married. She got divorced.
	She did what she did as a mother.
	She did what she did as an employee.
	She did what she did as a woman and as a human being.
	She made her choices.
	I cannot have my life...
	I'm going to be undermined and destroyed or gutted by the choices that my mother made because then I'm not then going to be free to make my own choices for better or for worse.
	I need to be free to make my own choices and to accept the consequences of those choices for myself.
	I cannot be constrained and bound because of the bad choices that somebody else made decades ago.
	I mean, I can choose to do that if I want, but all that means is that she's not any happier and I don't get to live.
	So again, this is just my perspective, my opinion.
	It is a choice that everybody has to make based upon.
	To me, it comes down to the moral evaluation, right?
	If somebody gets dementia because they just have a brain problem, and dementia is not something that occurs because of a bad conscience, at least I don't believe so.
	But there are other kinds of afflictions that I believe are moral in nature.
	I strongly, strongly believe in the conscience.
	And those afflictions that are moral in nature cannot be solved by the victims and cannot be helped by the victims.
	In fact, I think that being around, the victims being around the abusers actually only makes the abusers behave in a worse way.
	I mean, we're actually doing bad things due to any kind of happiness they have left.
	You don't need to tell me, but this is just something to mull about in terms of your evaluation of your situation, whether you believe that it is a mere organic problem or whether you believe that it may be a conscience problem was foundational to my decision-making process, and it may be something to examine for yourself.
	Right. Well, I've been offered help by my relatives so I can and possibly help my mother, but They're very, you know, I could say a little bit controlling because they tend to want to plan out how I could do certain things.
	But in exchange, they would offer like a place to stay and maybe a job.
	So I don't know, would that be a good trade-off?
	I really can't tell you that.
	I mean, I wish I could, but I can't tell you whether or not you should accept that kind of help or not from your relatives.
	I do think that people lean a hell of a lot on kids to deal with crazy parents.
	And I think that children should not be required to do that.
	I think it's an unrealistic...
	I think it's easy, but I think it's completely destructive to say to children who've dealt with this kind of stuff for years or decades, listen, you need to keep on carrying the cross.
	I think that adults...
	Within the extended family need to step in and deal with the situation because the kid is usually traumatized and exhausted from having lived with and dealt with this kind of mental illness or problem for years or decades.
	So I think that the extended family needs to step in and deal with it.
	So that's my opinion, which I hold very strongly.
	But of course, whether you do that or not, whether you accept their help or not, I don't think it's something anyone can tell you.
	But I would say that, again, talking to a therapist would probably be a good idea to work this stuff out.
	Okay. All right.
	And listen, just before we go, I'm so, so sorry that this is, for want of a better phrase, the cross that you have.
	Thanks for your advice.
	It was pretty helpful to me.
	I hope so. And please try and get some help and talk to a therapist.
	This is a hell of a burden to carry.
	And it is tragic that it has happened, and it is tragic that you've had to carry this burden.
	And I would try as much as possible not to continue to carry it alone if it's at all possible.
	Okay. I guess I'm going to try the best I can.
	All right. Well, thank you so much, and all the best.
	All right. Thank you. Bye. All right.
	Well, I think we have time for just one or two more quick questions, but I did want to pester people for feedback on the movie idea.
	Ah, yes. So somebody has asked, a few Sunday shows ago, you said that a rationally defined system of ethics like UPB was the only thing keeping you from doing certain things.
	If you remember what you meant...
	Could you elaborate a little more on that?
	Well, sure. I mean, look, if there was no such thing as morality, I would use my not inconsiderable gifts of eloquence for personal gain, which would be politics, or it would perhaps have been religiosity, or it would have been sales where I can be very compelling and convincing and all of that kind of stuff,
	and I wouldn't really have worried about The moral consequences of what it is that I was doing any more than I worry about punishment from Zeus, right?
	If morality was a made-up imaginary figure like Zeus, I would no more fear the punishment of morality or conscience than I would fear a thunderbolt of Zeus.
	And so, yeah, I mean, the field would be much wider for me.
	And it's not accidental at all that my final work on...
	The universal theory of ethics, universally preferable behavior, coincided with a considerable disenchantment with the business world as it stood.
	So I think that is a great question.
	Oh yeah, no, look, I was never going to go murder people.
	I never had any temptation to murder or become a thief or anything like that.
	But that's only because if you have eloquence, stealing is far more efficient politically than In an alleyway.
	Can the black holes in the brain be cured or reversed?
	I would never underestimate the degree to which neuroplasticity can help the brain to heal itself.
	So I would never ever say, well, this or that is impossible for the brain to do.
	So much has occurred that has been unprecedented in that sort of area that I wouldn't underestimate that at all.
	So somebody said, so even without ethics, you're still not likely to veer way off course in terms of morality.
	Well, no, listen, if I took my skills of eloquence and argumentation to the political realm, I think I would be pretty far off base in terms of morality.
	Retoreticians have done far more damage to humanity than murderers or soldiers.
	All right, well, I think we're going to end up there and...
	Thank you so much, everybody, for listening in.
	And I really do appreciate these very generous and challenging questions.
	And I hope that I am really providing some useful feedback from my own experiences and thoughts.

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