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Feb. 22, 2009 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:58:30

1285 Sunday Show Feb 22 2009

Various listener questions and comments.

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	Well, thank you everybody so much for joining us.
	It is February the 22nd, 2009.
	And just a reminder, I have sent out the scintillating, I do believe, three-part podcast series on the MECO System to all the delicious and wonderful subscribers.
	I created the podcast series because I found out technically that it is, in fact, impossible to send a gentle blow to the ear from my breath through email.
	And therefore, I decided to do something slightly alternative to my original reward program for subscribers, which I'm sure is of benefit and perhaps even of preference to others.
	Other news and weather?
	Well, I guess for those who are interested in the obsessive parenting update, Isabella has now passed her two-month physical.
	She did the requisite number of push-ups and crunches and drooling and jetting.
	She's 10 pounds, 10 ounces as of Tuesday?
	Thursday? Okay.
	That was Isabella correcting me.
	She's actually coming along quite well in terms of her sense of time.
	And she has 57 centimeters.
	So that's good. She's in the 50th percentile in terms of height, which according to my arts knowledge of statistics means she should be twice as high or 50 times shorter.
	No, she's right in the middle, right in the middle of the bell curve, and she's the 60th percentile in terms of weight.
	And that, of course, is mostly forehead from me and chin from Christina.
	So that's quite lovely.
	She is an absolutely wonderful delight.
	Just for the Diamond Plus people, I posted a video of she's doing this fantastic operatic squealing that shockingly, well, perhaps not shockingly, is a lot more musical than any of my attempts at singing.
	So that is very nice.
	She is equally and wonderfully as good natured.
	We went to go shopping with her yesterday for most of the day, and she was just great.
	Thank you. I have like 15 minutes of her awake and me interacting with her.
	If you ever really want to put yourself to sleep, that's the thing to do.
	It's an interesting challenge, right?
	Because she's pre-language.
	She doesn't really have a handle on her limbs yet.
	So you can read a book to her, but she won't particularly stay interested.
	Because she's part of the post-TV generation, so the printed word is not as compelling to her.
	But when daddy acts out thriller...
	Anyway, she gets mighty confused.
	So, we got her first round of shots, her first round of immunization on Thursday, and oh my god, oh my god, the horror.
	We decided to have me hold her.
	It was a cunning way of having a look at Christina when the pain hit, but I held her, and the nurse injected her with the, I guess, the Viruses or whatever.
	And, of course, she's not.
	We're lucky. I think it's got something to do with our parenting.
	And by that, I mean Christina's parenting.
	She doesn't cry at all.
	Christina, yes. Isabella, not so much.
	So we've almost never heard her.
	Actually, I've never heard her cry the way that she cried when she got the immunizations.
	Oh, my God.
	It was unbelievably horrible.
	Like her whole face turned red.
	Her whole head turned red.
	And her lower lip came out.
	Tears sprang to her eyes.
	Christina is very familiar with that when dinner is two minutes late or something like that.
	My dinner, yeah. But, oh my god, it was just unbelievably horrible to actually hear her wail in that kind of way.
	Oh my god, she actually stopped crying long before we did as parents because it was just horrible.
	We're comforting her like, oh, comfort me.
	Tell me you're okay. So that was just, and I mean, not to put any kind of clouds on the sunshine, but it is to me just further incomprehensibility about how people can Can do things which are harmful or hurtful to children.
	So it is just kind of shocking that way.
	And she's got this...
	It's very interesting for me as a parent, or I guess just as a person or maybe as a philosopher, to see the force and benevolence of Isabella's willpower.
	And I use the word willpower kind of loosely, right?
	But she is very forceful in her preferences and very gentle in In being comforted.
	And to me, that is just a really, really wonderful thing to see.
	This sort of original soul, so to speak, this original nature, which is, you know, she's confident in our desire for her happiness and so on.
	She's actually just finished feeding at the moment, so she's putting down her martini and her straw.
	But she fully understands, I think, at some level how much we want to keep her happy and healthy.
	And so she lets us know when she's upset or whatever, and yet she's easy to comfort.
	And that strength and benevolence of her willpower, to me, is just an absolutely beautiful thing to be around.
	And it's a real privilege to see that in a human being, right?
	A human being in this natural state without distortions, at least, I don't think, with distortions yet.
	So that is just...
	A wonderful thing to see, and she's such a happy baby, great smiles and interactions, and much like me, she lies on her back and kicks her leg.
	When she's happy, it's like she's riding an invisible upside-down bicycle, which is quite...
	Sometimes she does do the backstroke, absolutely.
	It's just wonderful. So she's doing beautifully, and everything's going fantastically, and parenting is a real joy.
	So, other than that, work on the new book is continuing.
	It's slow, but thank you for your patience.
	I know it's not been a massive amount of podcasting lately.
	I also got sick this last two weeks, so I had to sort of take a bit of time off to deal with that, but everything's fine now.
	So, yeah, so everything's going great.
	And thanks again to those who have signed up for subscriptions.
	I hugely appreciate it. That is just a wonderful thing.
	For peace of mind, of course, with the excitement of Christina, not, as I originally suggested, charging Isabella by the hour in a way to help maintain the family income.
	She's actually not doing that, so there has been a net loss of income.
	Sorry, I'm going from the Barack Obama economic stimulus package, which is to pay yourself to become rich.
	So I really do appreciate the people who stepped up and really helped out with Freedom Aid Radio.
	Even without that many podcasts, we hit almost a new high, 90 gigs a day of podcasts going down.
	Of course, we have...
	We've passed one million views on YouTube, which is obviously quite a thrill, and that is continuing to increase over time.
	So thank you everybody so much.
	I'm working on a new series, which is going to be for the general stream, the development of corruption, which I think will be interesting.
	And I hope, of course, pardon me, we'll give you some tips on how to avoid sliding down that slippery path.
	So, other than that, everything's just great and wonderful, and I just wanted to start off, I guess, with two minor-ish items of reasonably decent news.
	The first is from today's parent, March 2009.
	This, of course, comes from the future, which is nice.
	And what I thought was interesting, let me just see if I can...
	There was this letter that was in here about religion, which I thought was well worth looking at.
	For those who haven't, I think it's podcast 72 or 71 maybe.
	That is the podcast with the invisible apple, and I think it's worth having a listen to that if you haven't, which is sort of one of the ways in which I talk about the origins of religiosity, conformity, fear.
	And so on. So this is from page 100, and I'm sorry I had the wrong one.
	It's from January 2009.
	This is expert Q&A. Wondering about religion, writes the parent.
	Our six-year-old, she says, has a strong aversion to religion to the point where he gets upset when people pray or say grace in front of him.
	He says it's because he doesn't understand why someone would talk to someone they can't see.
	While my husband and I aren't particularly religious, my mother-in-law insists on buying him religious books, which he refuses to read.
	Will he be missing out on something crucial to his development if he doesn't learn about religion?
	Well, that's a wonderful question to even be asking.
	And the response is coming from someone named Rua Sabag, a psychotherapist, who says, I don't know if I would describe your son's response as an aversion to religion.
	As much as confusion or even distress about something he considers incomprehensible.
	Children your son's age can be quite literal.
	Often they can only believe someone exists if they can see him or her for themselves, which is not true, right?
	That's not what the kid is saying, right?
	Because he's not talking about problems with the telephone, right?
	So the therapist continues.
	Consider also that you and your husband may be communicating your religious views in subtle ways your son could be picking up on.
	It's possible that he is rejecting religion in an effort to emulate you.
	At the same time, his resistance to reading religious books could simply be a response to the pressure he seems to be feeling from his grandmother to do as he's told.
	While your son is just about to enter a phase of cognitive development that will likely allow him to handle the idea of prayer better, exactly what and how much religious teaching he receives is your decision as his parents.
	There are many ways a child can learn good human values and experience spiritual growth.
	Religion can be one of them, and so can family activities and community involvement.
	So, obviously, it's not the answer I would give.
	It may not be the answer that you would give, but I would say that in many ways, it's a pretty good answer.
	There is a fundamental confusion, of course, that people always seem to get in this area, which is that Learning about religion is quite a different situation than believing in religion, right? In the same way that learning about the Ku Klux Klan is quite different from joining the Ku Klux Klan.
	And that, of course, is a confusion that is constantly spread around, and that's not addressed, right?
	So the grandmother isn't teaching your children about religion, and it's good, I think.
	But anyway, I just sort of wanted to mention that.
	The other thing that I thought was some pretty good news was that we got something from the state after your baby is born, right, which is sort of developmental charts and signs, phone numbers, and things that the baby's milestones and stuff like that.
	And let me just...
	Yeah, so now tucked right at the back of this, I guess it's a calendar or something like that.
	And it's tucked in the very back, but it's still nice to see somewhere, right?
	This is under 18 months, and when they start to talk about disciplining toddlers.
	And the statement is, some parents think that spanking is a good way to discipline their children.
	And then in all caps, this is not true.
	There are many reasons why children should not be spanked.
	For more information, call, you know, and then they have the whatever, whatever, right?
	And yes, it's tucked away in the very back and so on, but it's there.
	And I think that's great.
	And of course... Dr.
	Phil talks about it, not spanking your children, not hitting or spanking.
	They always say spanking or swatting rather than hitting or striking or beating or assaulting.
	As if you could be gently hit by somebody four times your size, who has complete power over you.
	So I just wanted to point out that there's some flexibility in terms of religious instruction that is being proposed.
	And there is, buried in the back in small print, but still there, a statement against hitting children as a method of discipline.
	And, you know, so to speak, baby steps.
	If that's a metaphor I can use at the moment, which I think I can.
	And so, that's it for my brief introduction.
	If you have questions or comments or issues, they should ask now, shouldn't they be steps?
	Yeah, my darling. Somebody's just said they wonder what kind of accent Isabella's going to have.
	So far, she seems to have a vaguely Italian accent, because she sounds quite a lot like Cecilia Bartoli.
	Perhaps it's Kiri Tikanawa.
	We're not exactly sure, but there seems to be quite a bit of opera going on.
	Nice to smile. If nobody else, it doesn't seem like anybody else.
	Go for it. I, uh...
	Actually, for some reason, I'm...
	I'm really not sure what's going on.
	I feel some hesitation bringing this up, but at my job, I was told by my boss that he's got a permanent position open, right? Actually, he told this to me several weeks ago.
	At the time, I was like, well, I really think I'd like to continue contracting.
	In the moment, I was sort of thinking about where I want to be.
	I don't really know where I want to be in a year.
	And to get the permanent position and then leave in a year, if that's what I want to do, you know, it just seems to make more sense for me to contract.
	But he also mentioned it to me yesterday when I stopped to do some prep for Monday.
	And now I'm thinking, do I want to do that?
	You know, because I guess it could be the benefits.
	I don't know what they would pay me, but I'm not really sure what the question is exactly, but I'm not sure.
	I feel – and it could very well be not about the work, but – or not about the job as well.
	I'm totally open to that.
	But I feel this – like there are some clear benefits to going full-time.
	Like I get the actual health benefits and at least that much, right?
	But then, of course, that's the salary and then they expect you to come in for, you know, right now with hourly, at least I know if I work for 50 hours, I get paid for 50 hours, right?
	If that makes sense. And I'm not really sure where exactly to go with this.
	So, if I understand correctly, you've been offered...
	Is it a promotion, an extension of responsibility, but with the requirement or caveat that you would go full-time?
	Well, initially the position was offered to me as a contract with a potential for full-time.
	They didn't know if they could actually offer a full-time position because they didn't know what the budget was going to be like, that sort of thing.
	And from what I understand...
	My actual responsibilities probably wouldn't change.
	Of course I would get the benefits which would be sort of an increase in compensation or like a shifting, right?
	Having the health benefits versus not having them, right?
	Right. Okay, so it's not a big change of responsibility, but there is some pluses and minuses in terms of benefits and salary, fewer tax advantages, not being paid for every hour you work, and so on, right? Right, right.
	But you also do gain, of course, some legal protections, whether you want them or not, right?
	right, that you would gain some legal protections in terms of them firing you or whatever, right?
	Like, if you're a contractor, they just let you go, right?
	But they have to give you layouts and severances and stuff like that.
	Right, right.
	Of course, I didn't get anything like that in my last job, but yeah, yeah, I mean...
	If it was a layoff, it would be a severance or that sort of thing.
	Do you have an accountant?
	Do you have anyone you can talk to about the raw financial realities of it?
	Is the extension of benefits better than the loss of non-taxable income in terms of deductions and so on?
	No, I don't have anyone I can talk to at the moment about that.
	As far as raw numbers are concerned...
	You might want to.
	It probably would be worth sitting down.
	With someone for, you know, half an hour or 45 minutes might cost you 50, 100 bucks, but it will give you a raw amount of financial data that you would need to make that practical decision, if that makes sense.
	Right, and of course... It won't make the decision for you, but at least it will give you some so you won't be surprised, right?
	Because there's nothing like going from being a contractor...
	I went from being a contractor to being an employee, and there's nothing like that kick to the nads that comes with your first tax deduction paycheck, right?
	Where you go like, oh my god, now I'm not paid all the time and I get these leftovers?
	Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure.
	And it's not even...
	But you know, the raw numbers, that doesn't bug me so much.
	I can kind of work that, right?
	It's the feelings I'm getting around that.
	Yeah, and that's what I wanted to get to, of course, which was what's going on for you emotionally, because it sounds like you're not happy to be offered a full-time gig.
	Yeah, it's weird.
	Well, maybe not weird, but it seems like, why would I not want that, right?
	Well, because all it is is a choice, right?
	And of course, it is a choice that is good, right?
	I mean, they don't offer, I know this from being an employer, you don't offer a full-time gig to someone that you don't respect and like and find valuable, right?
	Right, right. And I know, I mean, I've asked for feedback throughout this job that I've been working, you know, just to sort of, you know, make sure that, you know, things that are still going well and They've asked me how I'm doing and just say, do you have any feedback for me?
	Is everything going well? Your work is great and we really like having you around.
	So as far as that goes, it's great, right?
	Right, except it's not.
	Yeah, except it's not, exactly.
	Right, okay. So, why...
	Because all you're being offered is a choice, right?
	And it's a choice that's sort of respectful, right?
	Mm-hmm, that's right. Like, instead of it being a booty call, you're being taken to a nice restaurant, right?
	Sure, sure, right.
	Let's make an honest coder out of you, right?
	Right. So, what's...
	Now, did the feelings of...
	Well, did the negative feelings, for want of a better word, show up when you got the offer or afterwards?
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	You mean when he called me in his office and was talking to me about it?
	Yeah, but he said, I'd like to stop groping you and put this ring on your finger.
	Did you get this feeling of hollowness or negativity right away or did it come later?
	Hmm... I just, I think, like, the reaction, I think it was, like, in the moment, like, the reaction was, like, I really don't want to do that.
	You know? Sorry, can you say that again?
	The reaction was, I really don't want to do that.
	So I think it was pretty, pretty, pretty immediate in the moment.
	Okay, and do you feel there would be negative consequences to saying no?
	Um... There are some, like, socially, in a way.
	And let's see if I can sort of describe them, but you may be familiar with them.
	The contractor versus full-time.
	I had one guy who said that he was surprised that I had, quote, turned down the position, because I wasn't actually offered full-time position, but I was told...
	I might have something come up.
	Sorry, the guy was saying, I might have something come up, so I'm just curious if you're interested, right?
	So it wasn't a direct offer, right?
	Sorry, I'm not following this part.
	I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Let me just scroll back a bit.
	The question I had was, would there be negative repercussions in terms of, well, just negative repercussions if you say, I'm going to stick with contracting for the time being?
	In terms of actually keeping the job there, no, because as long as I continue to produce what they're looking for, then I'll have the job there, right?
	Obviously, you know. So that's, no negative repercussions there.
	There is a social hit.
	Is it because you're viewed as the haughty contractor who's too good for full time?
	Yeah, I think there's some of that for sure.
	Or like if you stay late, it's like you're the only one getting paid?
	Sort of. And also like, oh well, he hits his 40 hours and he cuts out.
	Which isn't quite my plan, but...
	You know, of course I have to ask for overtime, right?
	I have to make sure of that. I mean, you may not be allowed to work more than 40 hours.
	Right. I mean, I know that when I was a manager, if contractors would work overtime without asking, that blew my budget, right?
	Right, right, right.
	So, yeah, so there's a difference, right?
	Like, they're in the fields and you're like the house slave, so to speak, right?
	Yeah, and also the thing, like, the thing, excuse me, One of the thoughts I have after I have this feeling of, I really don't want to do this, is one of the justifications that comes up, and I don't think it's entirely unwarranted, is I don't want to be working 50, 60 hours a week and being paid X. Right, like at FDR being zero.
	Got it. What is wrong with saying no?
	You're not afraid that they're going to say, well, to hell with you, you're canned like tuna, right?
	No, actually, because I already said no once, and I'm still there.
	Okay, so it's these other people, right?
	And the social aspects of work are not to be discounted, right?
	I mean, we're not robots, right?
	We do like to have some kind of relationship with those in the next veal fattening pen, right?
	And so, but obviously it's not a very good reason to make an economic decision, I think.
	I mean, that's my opinion. Yeah.
	You know, to be more popular, I'm going to sort of give myself something that I'm going to do something that I don't want to do because other people might not like me if I don't do it.
	Yeah, because that usually doesn't work in the long run anyways.
	Yeah. Oh, it won't work.
	See, the thing is, if you...
	I mean, it won't work. It's a fantasy, as you know.
	Oh, right. Because they'll get it anyway, right?
	Mm-hmm. Right? They'll get that you don't want to do it.
	It'll be incomprehensible as to why you did do it, and then they won't like you anyway.
	So it's like a net loss, right?
	Yeah, it's like now...
	Now I'm in a situation I don't want to be in and they don't like me.
	Right, whereas if you go down the corridor shaking your moneymaker and basically saying salary is for suckers, at least they'll know where you stand and they'll have some respect for your moves.
	Sure, for sure. Right, right.
	Now, why would this even be anybody's business?
	I mean, how would it go out to everybody else?
	How would they know, right?
	I think... I think the way it went down, and I wasn't told all the details, but I think the way it went down is among the full-time people, right?
	You know, the people who are basically putting more of a vested interest in the company.
	I think that's fair to say, right?
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't know. They might not be good enough to be a contractor.
	This is possible. This is just a basic economic equation, right?
	If it costs someone $1,000 to get 10 units of work out of you, but it costs them $1,500 to get 10 units of work out of somebody else, the only way that becomes sustainable is if they don't pay the other person the $500, right?
	In other words, unpaid overtime only evens things out When the salaried employees are less productive than the contractors, right?
	Okay, right. I follow you.
	Right, okay. Right, so they might not be efficient or good enough to be contractors.
	Okay. And in fact, them wanting to move you to salary is probably not because you're inefficient, but because you're efficient, right?
	Right. Well, yeah, yeah.
	I'm damn good at what I do.
	Right, so that's another issue.
	Yeah. So, are you still interested in how it might have come about?
	Not hugely, unless you want to go into it.
	I'd rather sort of deal with the feelings than the politics, if that makes sense.
	No, that's totally fine, and that's why I asked if you were interested, because it doesn't really matter to me.
	This is sort of my...
	And it was just a thought experiment, too.
	I don't actually know.
	Right, right. Okay. So...
	Have you been in a situation before, and, you know, as is always the case, the earlier the better, which doesn't mean that it's going to be true or right, but have you been in a situation before where you've sort of had to choose self-interest versus popularity?
	Self-interest versus popularity?
	Oh, God. Well, that's kind of...
	Oh, let's see. Well, the first thing that came to mind, and I'm sure there's something else earlier, but the first thing that came to mind was when I was at school, I had this friend in fifth grade named Caleb.
	He lived right down the street from me, actually.
	I mean, I went over to his house, and we spent time together, and there were these other kids who We're teasing me for being friends with him.
	And I ended up picking a fight with this kid, like just a shoving match on the playground.
	There was no good reason for it.
	And these other kids weren't actually even my friends, right?
	Yeah, that's a heartbreaking story.
	And then I lost Caleb too, right?
	Yeah, that's a heartbreaking story.
	I'm so sorry to hear that.
	Why do you think that they didn't want you to be friends with this fella?
	I'm sure I could come up with the actual reason, but the things that are coming to mind is, well, he was an Indian kid, so he had kind of an accent.
	He was kind of, quote, weird.
	He smelled like curry, those sort of things.
	Yeah, sure. And when you're 10 or 11, maybe those are the things that, quote, matter.
	But they didn't matter to you, right?
	But they mattered to these other kids, right?
	Yeah, right, right, right.
	Which is, you know, kind of racist, right?
	Kind of, yeah. No, quite, yeah.
	Yeah, I had a Turkish friend named Sirdar.
	And I didn't quite face the same thing.
	Because I didn't find that so much in England.
	But when I came to Canada, there was a guy, his name was...
	Unfortunately, his last name was Gerhardt.
	And of course, with all of the sexual hysteria that occurs with boys at that age, it was gay heart.
	And because you could manipulate the word to sound like something like gay, he then became mercilessly picked on and attacked.
	And I was his friend for a while.
	And so I do understand that when there is someone weak in these primitive, brutal herds of young kids or somebody who has a marker for exclusion, there is a bit of a feeding frenzy.
	I don't think children are naturally that way.
	I think this is just the herd mentality.
	This is nationalism as it sort of filters down to the Lord of the Flies set.
	So you picked a fight because you felt that that might raise your status with the kids who were down on this Indian fella?
	Yeah.
	Incidentally, they did the same thing with his name, Galep.
	Yeah, okay. You just reminded me.
	I had forgotten totally about that.
	That's the only explanation I can come up with.
	I can't think of any other reason why I would have tried to do it.
	And what happened after the fight?
	I'm sorry. I still wanted to back up a bit.
	It might not have been so much to raise...
	Well, I guess it could be raising the standing.
	But I also...
	Like, the other thing that came to mind was to get them off my back about being his friend.
	And how were they on your back about...
	How were they on your back? What were they doing that was that tough, right?
	I accept that it was. I just want to know what it is.
	Oh, man. You know, just...
	Like, they would tease him, right?
	Right. And then they would say to me later, like, why are you even friends with them, right?
	Right. And that's all that really comes to mind, but yeah, that seems to be about the size of it.
	Right, right. And you felt, at least I got a sense that you felt when you, it was a pushing match, right?
	When you picked a fight with this friend.
	Yeah. That was, you sounded very sad about that.
	I'm feeling very sad about it.
	Right, right.
	You know, one of the things that I think is useful or helpful when it comes to these These actions.
	And we've all done things that, you know, looking back, we're like, wow, that was kind of stone cold, right?
	You're not alone in this.
	You're not alone in this. We've all had those kinds of pressures on us, right?
	And sometimes we have not acted quite in the way that we would ideally have liked to, right?
	I mean, that's understandable, right?
	I mean, so I think the first thing is to recognize that there was a state of nature.
	Right, right. And to recognize that you were getting, you know, not only no, but negative moral instruction in courage and honor from your family, right?
	Oh, absolutely. Right, so the first thing I think to understand is to not self-flagellate about this stuff.
	The second thing I think to recognize though is that your feelings of sorrow are very important.
	Your feelings of sorrow and of shame are very important, right?
	So it's a tough balance because we don't want to beat ourselves up, but we also don't want to say everything I do is perfect, right?
	No, you're right.
	And it may be that maybe it was perfect.
	Of course it wasn't. But the important thing is that we recognize that we don't attack ourselves for what we have done, but we also don't say, and my feelings of shame must therefore be entirely wrong, and I'm not going to accept them, right?
	Because that doesn't lead you to a healthy state of self-acceptance, in my opinion.
	No, right, right. I'm with you.
	I'm with you. So I'm a big fan of...
	You know, try and find this guy.
	Oh, wow. Oh, wow.
	No, seriously, I'm a big fan of that.
	I'm a big fan of, you know, make your apologies the way you feel that you have done something wrong.
	I... This came as a thought to me, I don't know, like several weeks ago.
	Maybe not uncoincidentally, right?
	Yeah. To find this guy.
	I tried Googling him, but his name is like the English version of Smith.
	So it's going to be challenging, but I might be able to do it.
	Well, but what you would do is you would contact the school and you would see if there's any kind of alumni association.
	I mean, I'm getting six million emails because my high school reunion is next year, and maybe there's a way.
	There's classmates.com.
	There's like lots of different ways that you can try and get in touch with someone from your past.
	Right, right. No, no, that's an excellent point.
	Right. And I think it can do some real good for you and for him.
	You know, one of the things that is the toughest in life, at least for me, is not so much when you're hurt by someone, it's when someone's behavior is incomprehensible.
	That, I think, is the worst thing.
	You don't know why the person is doing what they're doing.
	And if you hear, it puts some sense and perspective back into things.
	It doesn't heal everything, but it certainly puts it back into the realm of comprehensibility, which is a big step, if that makes sense.
	Yeah, right. So if I do find this guy, I mean, it can help him as much or more than it will help me, right?
	Yeah, and my suggestion would be, and this is going to sound all kinds of fruity, but what else would you expect?
	My suggestion, James, would be write the letter that you'd want to either read to or send to this guy.
	Write the letter before you go looking for him, so that it's a real live thing.
	Now, if you find him, great, then send it or read it or whatever.
	The best thing to do is call him if you can.
	And then if you can't find him, at least you've done the exercise without it being an empty and self-referential exercise.
	Right. Oh, where is he?
	Where is he? Oh, I can't find him.
	Then it sort of goes off. Yeah, okay, I guess I'll write this letter, which now is meaningless because whatever, right?
	Yeah, right. No, that makes sense.
	And again, this is not, you know, oh, God, I was such a bad kid or whatever, right?
	This is not self-flagellation, but the feelings that you're experiencing of sorrow for what happened, right?
	And I don't get a sense of shame, and I don't get your sense, like, oh, my God, I'm such a bad person for doing what I did, but...
	There is a great sense that I get from you of sorrow that it happened, which is a little bit different from feeling like a bad person, if that makes sense.
	Yeah, and I don't feel terrible shame about it.
	It just feels like...
	I mean, I don't want to necessarily put it in this way, but the sense I get is that that was incredibly unfortunate.
	Yeah, you know what it's like?
	It's like you have to eat some guy in a lifeboat.
	You know, it's like, man, I'm real sad that we were in that situation.
	I'm glad he was tasty, but I'm glad he was well marbled.
	But I feel very sad to have been in that situation.
	I think that's the sense that I get if that rings true for you.
	No, that's where my feelings are sitting, yeah, for sure.
	And, of course, that sorrow is about more than the incident.
	It's about the childhood as a whole, right?
	The childhood at home, the childhood with the people at school, with the teachers, the environment, all of the stuff.
	It's like it was a really unfortunate situation to be in.
	And that sorrow is a step forward from the sort of dissociation or real anger that comes with the initial processing of bad stuff that happened when you were a kid, right?
	There is, at some point, when you get closer to acceptance, outcomes The genuine, legitimate, and deep sorrow, which is not completely detached from anger, but it's not that same kind of anger that occurs earlier?
	Yeah. No, I've definitely touched on the anger, for sure.
	Yeah, but no, this is different.
	This is different. Yeah, when we see the, you know, this is my thoughts, right?
	So I'm not going to pretend that they, of course, I'm not going to pretend that they should be yours, but I'll share them to see if they help clarify anything.
	I mean, the way that I think about my childhood now is that, yes, there were people who failed tests of humanity, and they failed those tests very, very badly.
	Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.
	Her mother was blown up in Dresden.
	They only found the handbag clip.
	They only found the clasp to her handbag.
	That's all they could find of the entire building, of anything to do with her.
	It was just complete rubble.
	So her entire childhood, most of her family were atomized, right?
	Bombs falling.
	So now the reason I would still say that she's still somewhat responsible is that everybody knows that that's traumatic, right?
	Everybody knows that.
	So you know that you're going to have a tough test coming up, right?
	I mean, you don't sail through that kind of trauma and then just decide to have some kids and cross your fingers, right?
	Any more than you go from the diagnosis of a weak heart to the Boston Marathon, right?
	No, right, right, exactly.
	So this, the anger is the people, for me, the anger was the people who failed the test that they knew was difficult, but decided to take anyway with no studying, right?
	Mm-hmm. The test called humanity and gentleness and kindness and love and so on, right?
	And that's the anger, right?
	They took the test, they didn't study it, they failed the test, and the consequences rained down on me, right?
	Right, right, and that would include...
	And that's the anger for me, but the sorrow comes from recognizing how difficult the test was through no fault of their own.
	Hmm. Right.
	Circumstance and choice are the two sides of the rectangle of human experience, right?
	If you just focus on choice, you don't get over the anger.
	If you just focus on circumstances, you never get the anger, which is healthy and necessary for change.
	But if you focus on the both, you get this rich feeling called sorrow.
	Right, so the circumstance and choice.
	Okay, yeah, I think I'm going to...
	I mean, I'm hearing what you're saying.
	I'm just not...
	I'm not sure exactly. I'm not quite connecting.
	Well, how is it that you ended up attacking your friend?
	Oh. If you had been raised in a different family, that would not have happened, right?
	If I had been raised with any level of assertiveness...
	Right. Kindness, assertiveness, strength.
	If you had seen your parents act with courage against the madness of the herd and so on, right?
	If you had any kind of moral instruction, if you had been able to go to your parents with this challenge and problem and had them sit down and work you through it and ask you questions and explore and examine, right?
	If you'd had that kind of help and examples, this would not have happened, right?
	Right. No, you're right.
	And yes, there was a test that your parents failed because of their parents, the culture, the society, the religion, the statism, the nationalism, the patriotism, the collectivism, all this crap, the lack of philosophical responsibility from intellectuals and academics.
	They failed a very difficult test.
	They're responsible for failing it, but damn, isn't it a shame that the test is so hard?
	I mean, when I think about, I'm 42 years old and I'm a new dad.
	And I'm proud and happy of what I'm doing as a father.
	But dear, sweet mother of Mary and Joseph Cocker, it is unbelievable to think how much work I had to do on myself to become a good father.
	Right. You know what I mean?
	Like, I should have been able to do all of this at 25.
	Seventeen years later I can do it.
	Why? Because I spent seventeen years reforging my soul from the roots up.
	It's a hard test to pass, I'll tell you that.
	And I am so sad that the world makes it so tough to be a good parent and to be a good person.
	I get what you're saying now.
	You know that we charge into the future.
	On the horseback of virtue only to face the slanted spears dug into the ground of a hostile, indifferent, and aggressive sea of people, right?
	It is a very tough road to hoe to be a good person.
	And the sorrow, the anger I feel is how many people fail.
	The sorrow I feel is how hard it is.
	It's worth it, of course, right?
	But it's hard, right?
	Right, right. I mean, you were like taking a test in Mandarin, and you failed it.
	And it sure would have been easier if someone had taught you Mandarin, right?
	No kidding. In terms of being a good person and a staunch friend and standing up against and clarifying what the herd was doing and so on, right?
	Right, right.
	Standing up for my friend and even standing up against those kids and even avoiding those kids just because they're obviously toxic.
	Well, and we don't know what Simon the Boxer freakout session was going on with you acting out this kid's fantasy, right?
	However ugly it may have been, right?
	We don't know if he'd been rejected at home and therefore you were acting out his rejection.
	I mean, this is all the dense and complicated stuff that goes into these kinds of tip-of-the-iceberg interactions.
	Right, no.
	Right, right.
	And those of us who have...
	said, look, I know how tough this test is to be a good person.
	I know how tough this test is, so I'm damn well going to study and I'm going to pass.
	By creating that possibility, there is, of course, an implicit, though we may never say it, an implicit criticism of others, right?
	The struggle for virtue in the face of a corrupt world and the achievement of virtue in the face of a corrupt world is an implicit criticism of others, right?
	Right? The one person in a group of overweight people who loses weight is implicitly saying to the others, you could, right?
	Right. Yeah, that makes sense.
	And it just struck me, of course, that there's something in this which is an implicit criticism of others, right?
	I'm too good to go to salary.
	Right? With this friend, it's like, I'm too good to turn against a friend.
	Right? You're a bunch of jackals, right?
	I'm not going to attack a friend, right?
	You know, it's like, if someone comes up to you and says, why are you friends with that guy?
	It's like, well, because he doesn't ask me why I'm friends with someone I like.
	Because he's not trying to Separate me from someone whose company I enjoy for the sake of petty racism.
	Right. But of course, no matter how you put that, how you phrase that, there is this volatile and explosive criticism that other people experience.
	When you raise the bar, everybody who thinks they're sailing over the wall smacks right into it, right?
	Right. That's why nobody likes the bar to be raised, right?
	Well, few people like the bar to be late.
	Right.
	Right.
	Well, wow.
	I mean, thanks so much.
	But this is, of course, the time for you to act for what you think is best for yourself without apology and without shame.
	Right? Mm-hmm.
	No, you can just, you know, if you don't feel bad about it, you won't get attacked for it.
	No, you're right. Right.
	I mean, you may start, but it'll peter out pretty quickly, right?
	Because all attackers are trying to do is to get you to self-attack, and if you don't participate, they've got nothing to do, and they sense their own helplessness, and they'll quickly go off to try and find another victim, right?
	I think we've all seen that recently.
	Oh, yes. I'd say, no, I, you know, salary's not right for me at the moment.
	Mm-hmm. No, that's actually exactly what I said the first time.
	Right, yeah, just, you know, I thought about it, and I, you know, and if people say, well, why?
	I just, you know, I just don't feel like it right now.
	I don't really have a good explanation.
	It just doesn't, you know, I just don't really feel like it.
	Mm-hmm. This is better for what I'm looking for.
	Or even, even, I just don't feel like it.
	No, you don't. It just, you know, I just, I just don't feel like it right now.
	Right. You know, there's an incredible power in I don't feel like it, right?
	Yeah. Even I'm squirming under it, but yeah, right.
	Even what? Even right now, in the moment, I'm kind of like, I don't want to say that, but no, I think you're right.
	Well, people will always try to engage you in details, right?
	It's a way of trying to overcome your identity, right?
	Right. Oh, right, right.
	No, that's... Like, if I can take this wall down brick by brick, then, you know, but if you just have the mortar of, I just don't feel like it, right, then what can they say, right?
	Right. You know, it's like if you ask some girl out and she says, you know, I really don't feel like going out with you, what can you say?
	Whereas if she says, well, I have to wash my hair Wednesday, what are you going to say?
	So how about Thursday? Right, exactly, right?
	Or how about a midnight Wednesday?
	I don't know, whatever. Right, right.
	Or, you know, I could wash your hair for you.
	Something like that. Right.
	I do it with my feet.
	It's quite an exciting experience, let me tell you.
	And I keep my sandals on.
	But... Right, so the moment that somebody tries to get you to give a reason, and I'm not talking about a reason for a logical belief that you have, right?
	But when it comes to just your own personal preference, right?
	Somebody asks you out and you're like, no, I don't really feel like it, sorry.
	They may say why, but then you don't know.
	I mean, I don't know, I just don't feel like it.
	There's nowhere to go in terms of your decision there, right?
	Right, right. Right, so I just don't feel, the salary is just not right for me.
	Well, why not? I don't know, it just doesn't feel right.
	What are they going to do, right?
	Your feelings are wrong.
	And if people say, well, can I take a moment to try and convince you?
	It's like, sure. And then they can try and convince you, right?
	And then it's like, no, I'm sorry, my feelings haven't changed, right?
	Yeah, right. No, right, right, right.
	No, this was great.
	This was great. Right, because that's of course what What you should have been taught.
	Somebody says, why are you friends with him?
	It's like, I like him. Why do you like him?
	I don't know. We have fun. What's fun about him?
	It's like, I don't know. I don't ask you to explain all your friendships to me.
	I just like him. Why do you like chocolate?
	Give me the molecular breakdown.
	It's like, nope, I just like it.
	I mean, we have to give reasons for reasoned beliefs, right?
	Right, right. But we don't have to give reasons for personal preferences.
	In fact, giving reasons is saying that it breaks down to X, Y, and Z, right?
	It's sort of like that, well, it's like the determinist thing, right?
	Well, we're all atoms, and atoms are determined, and therefore we're determined.
	It's like, nope. No, and really, all I have to go on is my personal preference.
	I mean, honestly, it's, well...
	I mean, the closest I can come to is, I don't know where I'm going to be in a year.
	But, you know, but that's not even like...
	See, that's what I mean. You can't give an accurate answer because we cannot conceivably get to the root of all of our emotional preferences.
	Right. No, you're right.
	It's integrity to say, I don't know, or the entire answer, I just don't feel like it.
	That's an honest statement, right?
	If you start coming up with reasons...
	Then you're saying, well, I know exactly why I'm feeling this, and here's the breakdown, right?
	Here's the source code to my operating system, which we don't know.
	Because, of course, the moment you learn more about yourself, you change it anyway, right?
	And it's so terribly tempting to do that.
	Well, yeah, of course. Because when you start giving up your reasons, you can be argued in and out of details, and other people gain control over your life.
	Right. Right. That's the whole point of the argument for morality and the against me argument.
	It's like, no, I'm not going to run around looking up all these statistics.
	Violence just be bad.
	Mm-hmm. Eyes, Bill.
	Right. I'm not saying we've got to be purposefully inscrutable or anything, and with friends it's great to explore what happens with our feelings and to be curious about them and so on, right?
	But in a work environment, you know?
	Right. Right.
	Right. This is going to sound completely ridiculous, and it's a reference that's going to be lost on just about everyone who's not my age.
	And I remember this for many years, from an episode of Happy Days, which is a show I quite liked when I was, I guess, back in my Paleozoic or Mesozoic teen years.
	And Richie Cunningham, right?
	Ron Howard. Richie Cunningham was...
	I was in a car.
	I have no idea what episode.
	This is just one of the glimpses I remember of the show.
	Richard Cunningham was in a car. And he's trying to kiss this girl.
	And she pushes him away and she says, I don't hear rock around the clock.
	Right? Okay, go ahead.
	I can't remember the song, but it was something like that, right?
	And he's like, oh, I... I'll turn the radio on for you, right?
	And she says, no, whenever a guy comes to kiss me, if I really want to kiss him, in my head I hear a rock around the clock, right?
	And I didn't hear it, so I'm not going to kiss you.
	Now, what do you say to that, right?
	Right, right. Because she's not saying, well, it's because your breath smells of onions, because he's like, okay, I'll chew some gum and kiss you again, right?
	It's not because the car is too cold.
	Okay, I'll turn the heat up, right?
	And again, I'm not saying this is rational, but there's something about that where she just says, I'm sorry, I don't hear that song, so I'm not going to kiss you.
	It's just so irreducible, right?
	Right, right. I'm sorry, I just don't feel like going on salary.
	I had a dream about an elephant last night.
	Yeah, it's something that is...
	If you feel that there's ambivalence, then you will, of course, try and figure out what might really be going on, and you can talk about it with friends and all that kind of good stuff, right?
	But if you just don't feel like it, right?
	Right, right. Yeah, I really just don't feel like it.
	I mean, the only perk would be health benefits, but the costs on the other side of that, it just...
	I just don't like them right now.
	I just don't feel like it.
	Right.
	And certainly, certainly, certainly what you don't feel like I'm positive is you don't feel like going on salary because you're afraid of unpopularity.
	I'm sorry, run that by me one more time.
	Well, you certainly...
	You certainly don't want to go on salary because you're afraid of unpopularity with other workers.
	Right, right. No, no.
	That would not be why I want to do it, right?
	Right. You're exactly right.
	So for sure, right, that's the reason.
	Now, if you find out in a couple of months you work through these issues and maybe it turns out that you do want it, but you're unconsciously saying, well, we need to deal with this as a principle and then we're free to make a choice.
	Because you're not making a choice if you're doing it to conform with other people's prejudices, right?
	Like, you don't make a choice to have a fight with this kid, right?
	You're just conforming to other people who thought he was weird, right?
	Right. I'm sorry, she's just making the wildest sounds.
	It's, uh, no need to apologize.
	It's like a spinning top, you know, like a Roman candle.
	I'm waiting for her to just start spinning around, spewing fire out of her feet.
	Actually, it's usually not fire.
	Wait till she hears these one day.
	I don't want to delve into this because I'm sure you can do that on your own, but that would sort of be the way that I would approach it.
	And I think that it's giving you some really rich stuff to work with emotionally and so on.
	Because it's all about making choices that are free of nefarious factors, right?
	Yeah, yeah, for sure.
	Not reaction choices, but real choices, right?
	Right. Not run away from all choices, but where do I want to go to choices, right?
	Right. Not pushed off a cliff, I guess I'll go down choices, but...
	Or bounce off the hill.
	Right, right, right.
	And land on your car. Oh, wait, sorry.
	No, right, I understand.
	I really appreciate...
	The perspective, it's certainly...
	Well, I appreciate you bringing it up.
	I thought it was a great topic to bring up, right?
	Because these are sort of the moral choices that we're facing now.
	This isn't really a moral choice, but the choice in terms of integrity and authenticity.
	This is good, right? This is better than, do I go to Thanksgiving with abusers, right?
	Right, right.
	Do I want to remain true to my own preferences?
	Right. Right.
	And you've come across something which is limiting your choice in this matter, right?
	Which is, right, we knock down that wall and now we have a new direction we can go, which makes it a choice, not a reaction or a corner, right?
	Right. No, right.
	Fantastic. Good.
	Good. Okay, well, I'll...
	For once, try and quit while I'm ahead.
	So thank you. I appreciate that.
	And I guess we have time for another question.
	Thanks. Thanks so much.
	You are absolutely more than welcome.
	You can type it into the window of much chatting.
	If you now have talkie.
	Hello? Hello.
	Hey, Steph. I had a small question.
	There are no small questions.
	There are only small questioners.
	I'm really small.
	I've been recently trying to go over...
	The idea of possibly, well not possibly, but dealing with my parents and wondering whether or not I should RTR with them before doing so.
	And in order to get some kind of clarity and sense of closure and validation from it.
	I posted a thread in the individual section.
	I think it was two days ago or something like that.
	And I had kind of a weird experience with that, which was...
	I was still kind of stumped by it.
	Greg asked me a good question and also my therapist asked me a good question.
	If I had such certainty about how negative my responses that my parents would give me, why would I want to, you know, re-engage them and RTR with them if I'm pretty sure about how they would respond.
	And then later, I got a letter from my mom, which I put in some of that thread, and it basically gave me...
	For me, that day when I started reading it, because it kind of...
	I guess I had this weird, I guess, kind of liberated feeling reading, because it kind of was the confirmation that I was looking for.
	Of not feeling like I really needed to sit down with them, that I really needed to have a conversation to understand how it was going to play out.
	And I guess my question for you was, do you think that archering with your family once you've already, once you've gotten this feeling of certainty,
	Even if you have an RTR with your parents and you feel certain of it, is it really necessary or a necessity to RTR with them or to try to gain any kind of extra closure with conversing with them personally?
	Well, first of all, obviously, I'm so sorry that you're in this position.
	Yeah. Just wanted to mention that, of course, as usual up front.
	This is never where we want anyone to be.
	And I'm obviously very sorry that it's come to this place.
	Obviously, I'm very glad that you are talking to a therapist about this, and so we're going to assume that with her guidance or his guidance that we're at a decision point that makes sense.
	And again, I mean, we'll just start from there, but I just wanted to throw that out up front.
	Okay. No, of course not.
	There's no have-tos, right?
	There are no have-tos.
	You don't have to speak to your parents.
	You don't have to not speak to your parents.
	This is not UPB. This is not good and evil.
	And so I would say no, you don't have to.
	Because to take a logical approach, right, if even with certainty we continue to review information, we never get plus 2 plus 2 is 4, right?
	Right, right. Because we're like, well, what if that's wrong?
	Then we're in some bizarre post-modernist hell planet, right?
	Where no matter what certainty you have, then you're like the doctor who goes to the cemetery to dig up the three-day-old body for one more chance at CPR, right?
	Right, right. So, no, certainty is where we...
	We put our stake in the ground and we, right, like you're climbing a mountain.
	You make a base camp and you climb from there, right?
	So certainty of these base camps up the mountain.
	And it doesn't mean that we don't revisit them if something new information comes up or whatever.
	But we simply, in order to progress as human beings, we simply have to accept certain levels of certainty.
	And so, no, when you have certainty, that's what I've always said is closure.
	Okay. Right? Right, right.
	So, no, I always suggest that, you know, be honest, attempt to establish better relations, attempt to establish intimacy, connection, to give people the opportunity to redress the wrongs of the past, and so on.
	But I also know that you've been working hard on family issues for over a year now, isn't that right?
	Yeah. And so this could not be called any kind of impulsivity, right?
	Right, right.
	So... So no, I mean, you're working with a therapist.
	If you feel that you've got certainty and you have no doubt whatsoever about where the conversation is going to go, then yeah, I mean, because otherwise you would always have to go back, right?
	Because you'd say, well, the conversation the last hundred times went this way, but I'm not certain 101 might be the one that changes it.
	At some point, we have to weigh the probabilities of the cost-benefit, right?
	Right, right. If we jump out of a plane, over the Himalayas, we might hit a gentle snow slope and have the best ride of our life, coming to a slow halt, right?
	Right. But the cost-benefit, the odds of that are very low, and the odds of face-planting into a rock phase and dying are very high, right?
	Yeah, definitely.
	So at some point, we have to weigh the cost-benefits, and we have to come down with the...
	With the recognition that the knowledge that we have is sufficient to make a decision.
	And with human affairs, there's certain levels of unpredictability, although, as is constantly mentioned, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
	So, no, if you're certain, then that's closure.
	But if there's a part of you that's uncertain, then it's, in my opinion, well worth it to have the conversation.
	But no, if you have no doubt and no desire to do it, right?
	And no desire to fight with them and no desire, like, that's closure, right?
	Yeah. Yeah, because I don't really have, like, I've already written down, like, a script and how I pretty much felt like it was going to go and read that to my therapist and went through that, and then after receiving her letter, it just seemed like it was going, I mean, it was just going to repeat itself.
	It was just going to be, it would be the same conversation over and over.
	And my therapist had asked the same question.
	She had asked me, like, you know the outcome if you already are pretty much sure that this is getting into an abusive and you're pretty certain about that, then what are you trying to get from that interaction?
	And I just couldn't think of anything.
	All I could think of was just the pleasure that I was trying to get validation for my past history, which I knew I wasn't going to get.
	And a sense of closure by finally just being fed up.
	But I think once I got the sense that my mother, when she wrote the letter, was really not even concerned with me at all, I don't see how a letter would differ from a phone call.
	And how that was going to change the situation.
	So, um, I just, I didn't, I didn't see, like, how it was going to be productive in any way.
	And I just kind of felt like, I mean, it just felt like it, if I continued to try it and open, if I continued to try to do it, um, it was just gonna, I guess, be a, it would just be kind of be a, of, uh, I guess a waste, so to speak, because I, I, I have a limited amount of time, and I don't know, I just didn't feel like it was going to be practical, and I pretty much knew already what was going to happen.
	Well, and I would argue that it's worse than a waste, right?
	To, with as much certainty as possible in these situations, to put yourself into an abusive situation with a certain knowledge of the harm and trauma that it's going, is masochistic, right?
	It would be self-abusive. Yeah, yeah.
	Right? So it's not just, well, there's an hour I could be spending, you know, braiding my hair.
	Okay, maybe 20 minutes from me, maybe 15.
	But it's actually a self-abusive situation to put yourself in an environment where you are certain that you are going to be traumatized and harmed by people.
	And the reason that I strongly suggest that people go and try and work that out with their family is that you get that kind of certainty and that kind of closure.
	And what that means is that it's like an immunization against those kinds of relationships in the future, right?
	Once you achieve closure with abusive patterns within your family, if there are those abusive patterns, once you have, you know, really gotten through to certainty, it's like the shots we gave Isabella.
	She's never going to get sick from these illnesses, right?
	Right, right, right.
	In that way, you know, I mean, it'll...
	And that's what I was feeling like I was going to get from having to talk to them in person.
	I thought that I would get that feeling from there.
	But I guess when I got the letter, it seemed as if...
	It's just there were so many things wrong with the whole interaction and there's so many things that are predictable of the past that it just...
	It seems...
	It just seemed as...
	I guess valid as talking to them personally it just it was that I guess it impacted me that much we're to the point where I was kind of I couldn't understand exactly the laughing but I was kind of laughing and crying and running for two blocks yelling I'm free outside which is kind of weird That could be counted a clue yeah yeah yeah so So what now?
	Well, basically, my next step is to...
	There's this motorcycle thing that I had supposedly gotten for my birthday a long time ago, but they had put in her name for insurance reasons and whatnot.
	I'm going to try and sell that, but it's in her name, so I was going to send her a note and see if she'll do that.
	She doesn't. Within a month, it's hers.
	And then, basically, I'm going to send the letter, which I'm going to be working on for...
	All pretty much during that time.
	Sorry, the letter to your parents saying, I'd like to take a break from this relationship?
	Yeah. What, maybe I'm missing something, what is there to work on in the letter?
	Well, for me it was kind of, I just want to make sure I'm wording it right, and if I'm And I want to check my emotions and make sure that I'm not at the very end, you know, if there's something I've missed or anything like that.
	I guess when I start writing it, I want to...
	I don't know, I have this thing of wanting to verify stuff and wanting to make sure that my...
	I guess just trying to make sure that When I'm writing it, that I'm not giving them a way to hurt me or showing them as if I'm asking them for something or anything like that.
	I just want to make sure that I'm okay with it in the way that it's written and that emotionally I'm okay with it.
	Okay. I'm just, I'm not going to disagree with you, Ryan.
	I mean, there's nothing more personal than what you're doing here.
	I just wanted to understand. Because, I mean, I've seen some people have posted defu letters in the past, which are long lists of Grievances and problems, and here's what you said, and here's what I did, and then this is why, and long explanations, and that stuff, of course, doesn't work, right?
	Yeah, that's what I want to make sure I'm not doing.
	That's the kind of stuff I want to make sure.
	Like, if I have yet more stuff to vent, that I vent it, but that's not what I'm putting in the letter.
	Right, and then the reason, as you've probably heard in podcasts before, if people have that list of active Complaints or grievances or upsets with their families, then I think it's, you know, you sit down and you work that out until you don't have anything to say to people, right? As long as you have something to say to people, keep saying it, right?
	Exactly, exactly, yeah.
	Exactly. And how are you, how's your heart?
	You sound... Well, how are you doing?
	I'm doing better.
	I downloaded the audiobook of Nathaniel Brandon's Six Pillars of Self-Esteem, so I'm listening to that.
	And I'm...
	I mean...
	To me, it's been a bit crushing, and in other ways, I'm happy that I'm not going to be putting myself in that situation again, but again, it's still a bit crushing to, I guess, in the way that I had worded it, it was just that I wasn't enough.
	Being born, it's just not...
	And it kind of, and my therapist put a good twist on it saying, you know, because I would always say in my own self-defeating way, it was kind of like, you know, what was so wrong with me that I wasn't enough for them to, you know, care about?
	But her switch on it was kind of more like, well, you know, it's not necessarily what's so wrong with you, but what was so wrong with them?
	And so I guess just all in all, it's, I don't know, in a way it's liberating and in another way it kind of hits like a ton of bricks.
	Right, and I'm only going to give you the annoying new parent lecture.
	I can guarantee you that Isabella doesn't have to do a damn thing to please us.
	Right. She can crapple down my leg, and I'll give her a big kiss.
	Right? Right, right.
	She has. We're not talking theory.
	She can yell in my ear.
	My concern is, what's wrong?
	How can I help? She's not somebody who has to win my love.
	Right? It's like once I got Christina legally shackled, but it's like Isabella doesn't have to lift a tiny little shrimp-like finger to win my love, to deserve my care and affection and protection and empathy and all of the feelings that I have towards her.
	She doesn't have to do a thing.
	Why? Because she didn't ask to be here.
	Exactly. Exactly.
	Right? We kidnapped her.
	From the platonic universe of pre-birth, right?
	Right. Right.
	She doesn't have to do anything.
	And she will never have to do anything as a child to win my love.
	In fact, even as an adult.
	Because she did not choose me as a father.
	Right. Right.
	Yeah. You...
	As a baby, as an infant, as a toddler, as a child, as a teenager, you did not have to do anything to win your parents' love.
	To say that there was a deficiency in you that caused them to not love you is not even close to realistic or true, right?
	Right, right. It's just sometimes hard to see it when you've got blinders on and, you know, years of reinforcement.
	Oh, I completely understand that.
	I'm not saying this like this is going to be shocking information to you.
	I'm just saying it to reinforce this point, right?
	Like, if I kidnap you and lock you in my basement, is your problem with that going to be that you just couldn't find a way?
	Huh? To make me like you?
	No. No.
	Right? Right. Right.
	They chose to have you and the birthright of every child is tenderness and love and concern and security and affection.
	I want Isabella to take as much delight in every waking hour and every sleeping hour, if I can give her good dreams, to take as much delight in every waking hour that she can.
	That's my job, to provide that to her.
	It is not her job to figure out how to pick the lock of my heart and open it.
	It is not her job to figure out what sequence of hand gestures, squealing sounds and leg kicks is going to turn me into a father who wants to make her happy.
	I am not a puzzle for her to assemble.
	I am not a beast for her to tame through some complicated set of maneuvers and manipulations.
	Her job is to grow.
	Her job is to eat and the other thing.
	But she has no job.
	She has no responsibilities to me.
	She has no responsibilities of any kind.
	She has no job.
	It is my job.
	She is not a customer. It is not a reciprocal relationship.
	She is not chosen to be here.
	The job is entirely mine.
	If I do a good job, she will be happy.
	And she will be, if I am a source of pleasure to her, right?
	So when I come into the room and I smile and she smiles back, I'm a source of pleasure to her.
	Because I have done everything that I can to make her safe and secure and loved and happy, right?
	Right. Tell me what you're feeling.
	It's just... I've been just really sad and yet happy.
	I mean, I guess it may sound weird, but I'm happy that, you know, that there are kids out there who are, you know, like Isabella, who are going to be having great, you know, they're going to be born in such a great family.
	I guess I'm just sort of...
	I'm sad that...
	I guess I'm just kind of sad about the fact that my parents couldn't see the same thing and I guess...
	Sorry, sorry. I've got to interrupt you because your parents could see the same thing.
	You ask any parent who's sane and they will tell you exactly what I have told you.
	Ask any parent, did your children who's not some Buddhist nut job, ask any parent, did your children choose to be your children?
	No. Was it your choice?
	Yes. What do you owe your children?
	Love, security, happiness. This isn't Wittenberg in 1611, right?
	Where the Protestants are going to say, or the Catholics are going to say, or the Anabaptists are going to say, or the Calvinists are going to say, children are imps of Satan who need to have the love of Jesus beaten into them with a stick, right?
	Right. That's not what people say these days.
	What they say is, children are precious, they need love, security, attention, affection.
	All parents say that these days.
	At least in the West, right?
	Right. Right. They know how to say it and act it, but it's so hard to wrap your heart around the idea that they knew it but didn't do it.
	Right. You're absolutely 150% beyond correct.
	It is very hard.
	To wrap your head around that, that basic reality.
	I completely and totally agree with you.
	That's the heartbreaking nature of it.
	And to put it in a ridiculous perspective, which nonetheless I think is somewhat valid, you know, we are a transitional generation, right?
	Right. Right.
	Human beings will often throw their ideals ahead of their actions, right?
	Like you throw a grappling hook up and then you climb, right?
	Right. Right, like Declaration of Independence, right?
	All men are created equal, right?
	But your people, not so much for quite a long time, right?
	Right, right. Right, so there was an ideal that's thrown up there like a grappling hook and then people got to fucking rub their hands raw climbing it, right?
	Right. And our parents had this grappling hook called love and affection and security and, right?
	Yeah. And they, most of them, Threw the grappling hook up and said, well, I guess I've climbed, right?
	Yeah. Yeah.
	Not really ever trying to actually follow through with it.
	And I guess just being locked in such...
	It seems like they were locked in a fantasy, but to say that would be to say that they're not aware of it.
	And I guess that's...
	They really were.
	Right. And of course, that's why my first book was about talking to your parents about virtue.
	Yeah. To understand what they understand about virtue.
	Because they are moral instructors, right?
	Right. Right.
	Definitely. And there is a new kind of thinking, right?
	Obviously, this is the way that Christina and I are parenting, which is that children are perfect in their natural state, and they do not need to be manipulated or controlled or managed or changed or fundamentally altered in any way, right? That you meet their needs, bring them love and affection, happiness, and they're fine, right?
	Yeah. I mean, I guess, you know, it's not.
	And the funny thing is, it doesn't sound like it's such a huge thing for people.
	It would be such a huge thing for people to grasp, even though it seems to be that it is.
	It is tough. I mean, it is tough to grasp sometimes.
	Christine and I, again, I don't want to make this about, we're just talking about this as an issue and tell me if this is way off base, but we face this challenge, right?
	Because people say, well, you should start doing this and that and the other with your children, right?
	So if your infant's like, now that she's seven or eight weeks or nine weeks, then you need to start doing this.
	You need to place her down here.
	You need to make sure she's not sleeping with you.
	You need to start training her to do this.
	You need to start jostling her along In some preconceived path that she doesn't want to go.
	Right. And we fall into this and we're like, oh, maybe we should try this and then, you know, I'll usually be the one who's...
	No, no, no, we're not doing that, right?
	Right. Right.
	She's developing just fine.
	Right? When she's ready to sleep in her crib, she will sleep in her crib.
	But we don't need to train her to do that.
	Mm-hmm. Yeah.
	And there is starting, right, this idea that children's souls grow as beautifully as children's bodies.
	Like, I don't need to sit there and pull her legs to make them grow, right?
	Right, right, right.
	She'll do it. She'll grow when she's, you know.
	Yeah, I gotta feed her and get out the way, right?
	Right. I don't need to teach her How to look at something, right?
	Because she already can follow something 180 degrees.
	She'll turn her whole head to follow it.
	I don't need to teach her to do that.
	Obviously, I need to give her some visual stimuli, right?
	But I don't need to teach her to do that.
	I don't need to teach her how to digest food.
	I don't whisper to her belly, be sure to unleash the proper bacteria, right?
	Right, right. She already knows how to do all of that.
	Just have to feed, protect, and love her.
	And she'll grow perfectly.
	And it is a tragedy, a true tragedy, that so many parents set themselves against the natural development of our species, right? But it's never the child's fault.
	When Isabella, this blew my mind, Isabella was not even a week old.
	We tried to put her on a car seat at the mall, and it was too tight for her.
	We didn't know that, except she cried.
	And then we ended up having to carry her into the mall to the place where we bought the car seat, but they helped us to loosen it because we couldn't figure it out.
	And then she was fine. Instead of, you know, I guess...
	Stop crying. You're fine. Shover into the car seat, right?
	Exactly. So, she was smarter than we were, and she wasn't even seven days old.
	Right. That's very humbling for a parent, right?
	I'd imagine. Like, oh, I'm sorry, let me defer to the person who is...
	You know, I've had pimples that aren't as old as you.
	So you knew how to develop naturally, and of course Isabella is going to have great affection for me because I bring her pleasure.
	I don't have to teach her to like me, I just have to be likeable, right?
	Exactly. It would be incomprehensible for her not to want to spend time with someone who makes her happy, right?
	Exactly. The foundation of the marriage and hopefully the foundation of FDR as well, right?
	Exactly. Doesn't mean it's not ever challenging, right?
	But nonetheless, right?
	Right, right, right.
	And the greatest tragedy, you know, the saddest thing in many ways is that we were...
	Not those of us who went through these kinds of childhoods.
	Not just the trauma or the fear or the aggression or whatever, right?
	Right. But it's being robbed of the chance to love your parents when you're a kid.
	To look up to them, to respect them, to be happy when they come in through the door, right?
	I mean, this is what I think is so sad about so many marriages or relationships, right?
	Yeah. I'm thrilled when my wife comes home.
	I hate when she goes anywhere without me now that I've got her latched down with Babyville.
	It's a lot better, right?
	I mean, that's what it should be.
	And the people who are stuck in bad relationships, I know what they're missing.
	I just like, you live in my skin for five minutes with this kind of relationship and you won't even be tempted.
	Yeah. By Heidi Klum or whoever, right?
	Right, right, right.
	Because children are very naturally affectionate in my experience, right?
	You just have to be nice to them, right?
	Yeah. And they love to express their affection, right?
	They love to make you pictures.
	They love to do nice things for you.
	They love to cook you meals when they get older.
	They love to help.
	They love to show their affection.
	And it's being, not having that possibility was very sad, right?
	not just the love that we didn't get, but the love that we weren't allowed to give. - No.
	I guess, at times, not being able to do that, I guess kind of, I don't know, in a way, I get the sense that it kind of made you feel cold, sort of, when you're not able to give that.
	And then sometimes you go desperately into other relationships just so that you can try and gain that which you didn't have.
	Yeah, I mean, relationships then become two things, right?
	The pursuit of sex or that kind of physical companionship and the avoidance of the insecurity of solitude, right?
	Right, right. Which is a stick and a carrot rather than a free choice.
	Right. And I use the word carrot in its most conceivably suggestible manner.
	Right, right.
	But yeah, you weren't the wrong kid for your parents.
	I guarantee you that.
	It was nothing you could have done.
	Children are incredibly resourceful as well.
	They will find a way, right?
	Some kid who wants a candy bar, I mean, some kid who's allowed to negotiate or allowed to have an opinion, listen to that kid.
	I was at the store today buying groceries, and there was a woman there with her daughter.
	Her daughter was about six or seven, and her daughter wanted stuff from the aisles, right?
	Some sugar brain bomb candy cereal or something like that, right?
	And I passed by this woman, it must have been half a dozen or a dozen times, in the store.
	And the kid today was like, every single time, was like, well, what about this?
	And you said I could have this. And I saw this.
	Remember I told you about this on the TV? And you said next time it was door, we could do this.
	And then you wanted that. And this thing has a toy in the back that I really want.
	And then if you give me that, I won't need any allowance next week.
	It went on and on, right? Yeah.
	Yeah, I can remember doing that.
	Children are like water going down a mountainside, right?
	If they get hit with a rock, they spread somewhere else.
	They'll find a way.
	Right. And I guarantee you that you looked for that opening in your parents' hearts obsessively as a child.
	Yeah. That you tried everything you possibly could to reach these people.
	Yeah. I mean...
	Definitely. I mean, I can recall one night when I was, I mean, I wasn't really young then, but I guess I was in my teens, and there were a couple nights where I actually really opened up to my father about a lot of the things that had gone on in the house, and he kind of stopped, gave this half smile, and looked at me.
	I always vividly remember this night.
	He gave this half smile, looked at me, and was like, so what is it that you really want?
	Like, Because I was, you know, saying something that, like, I disagreed with some of the things that had happened to me and how I didn't feel like I would have been listened to and how I feel like I'm being treated like I'm stupid and some of the other things.
	And I didn't mention them in a mean way.
	I mentioned them in this kind of, you know, pleading sort of, you know, can we talk about this sort of way?
	And I remember that night because I also freaked out that night.
	I was hyperventilating when I left.
	But, no, yeah.
	Definitely, and it's just the way that they're just able to just shut you down like that is kind of...
	Right, that's the cynicism of people with a bad conscience, right?
	Anytime you try and interact with them, they're like, what's your angle?
	What are you trying to get? What's the point?
	What's your real meaning, right?
	Right, right. How are you trying to trap me now?
	What are you trying to get out of me? What are you trying to wheedle out of me, right?
	Right, right. Exactly.
	But that's just projection, right?
	Yeah. This is because that's what they do, right?
	Exactly, yeah. Definitely, definitely.
	And they're twisting it because they think everybody sees through the same lens that they do.
	Yeah, it's like the guy who's a counterfitter will always check the currency, right?
	Right, right, right, right.
	Because he knows how good he is at it.
	Yeah, yeah, sure.
	Yeah. The liar can't believe anyone.
	That's the price you pay for lying, right?
	You can't believe anyone.
	Yeah. Anyway, look, I know that I can sort of turn this around, and I know that you've done a lot of work to turn this around, and of course with your therapist, I just wanted to provide some...
	Perspectives as a father, a patriarch of over two months, two months count of standing.
	But no, there's nothing that you could have done.
	There's nothing that you should have done.
	And I bet you there's nothing you didn't try to open your parents hearts.
	And I really appreciate you talking to me about this and just all the stuff that you've done with FDR. Because I don't think I'd come to these kinds of understandings if it wasn't for all the work and effort that you put into it.
	And I am deeply, deeply appreciative of all the work that you've done.
	And I'm very thankful also for Christina and Definitely, you guys putting this together, it means a lot to me, and I really do appreciate it.
	Well, thank you. Obviously, I appreciate the work that you've put in.
	I just so clearly remember our very first conversation.
	You are a stronger and nobler man by far now.
	Not that you were a bad guy before, but it is a beautiful thing to see, and I certainly appreciate you sharing that.
	All right.
	Well, I guess we have time for one more question.
	If we have a, uh, uh, a, uh, somebody who wants to slide in like Indiana Jones and grab the hat of their microphone just before the iron stone door comes rolling down.
	Oh, I have a question.
	I've been I've been reading some books lately.
	They're tough. But I was wondering if you all are interested in book reviews.
	I've read Bob Woodward's latest book.
	I'm reading one, I think, by Tom Woods on the current economic meltdown and stuff.
	Are you guys at all interested in book reviews of these kinds of topics?
	Just let me know if you can sort of say in the chat room or whatever.
	I mean, I've got notes about all of the books, and I think that they're Worth something, but just let me know if that's something that you would be interested in as a topic.
	Oh good, people are saying yes, and basically that was a bait and switch.
	What I'm going to do is review all my own books and say that is the sexiest goddamn font I have ever seen in my life.
	Don't forget to sign up for the barbecue.
	Somebody said, I had a question for Christina from something I heard in a call-in show the other week.
	It's a silly question, but it's something I remembered.
	LOL.
	LOL is a palindrome.
	Windchill.
	What is it called when the wind made the temperature colder?
	Windchill. Right.
	When I lived in Montreal, I lived in Montreal for four years.
	I did two years at the National Theatre School and two years at McGill University.
	And I was only there in the winter.
	And man, that is a cold, cold, cold, cold place.
	Can we attend the BBQ via webcam for us foreigners?
	I don't know.
	We certainly would be happy to set up some sort of broadcast thing since we're just going to be sitting around here chewing the fat anyway.
	I just mean if we're around sort of for an evening thing we'd be happy to because we have a computer down in the living room.
	That's actually what we're doing right now is we're going through wireless from the computer in the living room because it's It's easier for Christina to constantly feed, like I'm one to talk.
	So yeah, we could try that for sure.
	Yeah, when is it again? Last weekend in May.
	Last weekend in May, Eastern Standard Time.
	Yeah, there's a link.
	Emiando.com, O-M-Z, FDRBBQ2009.html, May 30th, June 1st.
	And there is some people who are coming in for a wider sandwich of time.
	And sorry we can't put anyone up here, but Miss Isabella, I'm sure, would make it quite a traumatic evening for some.
	And I'll be around.
	I mean, we're going to have just maybe one day of the actual barbecue, but we'll be around for other things.
	People want to go to Niagara or go hiking or do some of the other cool stuff.
	That's around. Yeah, I'll meet for dinner or whatever.
	There's fantastic restaurants around here and great hiking, great hiking.
	Around here, there's an escarpment that's just absolutely stunning, which we actually went to last year.
	So maybe we could go back there.
	Yeah, I would really suggest, based on what we did with the symposium in Miami last year, I can't believe that's only 13 months ago.
	It really feels like at least 14.
	I'm so disoriented. I need to lie down.
	Cold compresses, please. Get my agent on the phone.
	I can't work like this! Sorry.
	But, yeah, we could go whitewater rafting.
	Absolutely, we did that.
	Actually, we did that when we had employees, and my brother and I took them whitewater rafting, which was quite exciting.
	It's very exciting. I think Isabella would be a natural.
	Poor child, right?
	Well, no, because she's quite used to riding the rapids as it is just up in her room every 20 minutes.
	There are squash courts nearby.
	In fact, I have a gym membership.
	We can actually, I don't know how many people we can get, but we could maybe go.
	There's a pool and a deck and squash and indoor tennis and outdoor tennis and all that.
	So there's all that kind of good stuff.
	Yeah, you usually can get guests in for a fee, so...
	So, yeah, we'll have a lot of fun and we'll...
	Yeah, it's the Delta Meadowvale.
	You all might get a group rate if you have 10 or more people.
	You'll get some pretty substantial discounts, particularly also since it's summer, which I think is less busy.
	No, more busy. But yeah, you might want to try group rates.
	You should be able to get some cheaper stuff.
	And of course, we will absolutely get ourselves to some karaoke on the Saturday night.
	Unfortunately, last year it was cancelled because of some stupid fight.
	But the year before, we had quite an electric time.
	If you haven't seen Christina do Bad Out of Hell, you just really haven't lived.
	And Isabella's dedication to Chinese opera is paying off beautifully.
	So, of course, having that amplified should give us a lot of room in the bar.
	That really is. Is this a vegan-only barbecue?
	No, it is not vegan-only, although we will have vegetarian food.
	BYOB? No, I wouldn't worry about it.
	We're happy. Look, you guys keep us in bread and heating, and so you don't need to bring a thing to the barbecue.
	You will be fed and watered, and there will in fact be SpongeBots if necessary, because I'm so grateful to...
	The kindness and generosity of listeners.
	So don't bring a thing.
	And if you have special dietary requirements, just let us know ahead of time.
	We will take care of everyone, top to bottom, head to toe.
	So don't worry about that.
	Yeah, bring sunscreen for sure.
	Because you may be seated across from my forehead.
	So you'll be getting the triple whammy.
	Oh yeah, and if you get trapped between James and I, sunscreen won't help because probably it will just be spontaneous combustion.
	Thank you.
	What about cannibals?
	Yes, there was a great quote on The Daily Show when they actually did a segment on this proroguing of Parliament that happened up here when they didn't throw enough gravy in for the other parties and they just shut down Parliament.
	Anyway, The Daily Show did a version where they referred to Canadians as those gentle cannibals to the north.
	That's actually quite funny.
	We do not have either an Obama or a McCain-side outsider house, but if you follow the flaming effigies, you shouldn't have any trouble finding the house.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Well, yeah, and if you're having any trouble finding the place, you can go to mississaugatherapy.com.
	And thanks again to Greg for the, I haven't mentioned this in a while, but he was very kind enough to give me a GPS. Oh, it has office directions.
	Oh, I'm so sorry. It's 979 Pine Valley Circle in Mississauga.
	Yeah, if you have any problems, of course, call us 416-907-2920 and we'll talk you in.
	But I'll put it up on the board.
	Driving directions as well, of course.
	And it's pretty cheap to get here by cab.
	It shouldn't be more than 20 bucks. Is that right?
	25 maybe? Yeah, something like that.
	But that's Canadian dollars. But yeah, so it's pretty easy to get to.
	But what you need to do, of course, is you will notice that there is a fairly low-hanging black smoke.
	That's the first indication.
	After that, the flaming alligator pit.
	After that, the barbed wire, then the ICBMs, then the big pit of fertile women, and then the shacks of screaming and ululating adulators.
	And then you come to the central compound, and I'm on the dais, of course, right?
	Because that's exactly what the media needs to see.
	That's how you will pierce really through the concentric circles of the free domain radio car.
	That is where you want to go.
	I'm more than happy if you need a car for a day trip and we have an extra car here.
	Alright, any last questions, comments, issues, anything else that people wanted to bring up?
	For this here Sunday show?
	Let's chance. Is it a smoking or non-smoking barbecue?
	Generally, certainly you're not going to smoke in the house.
	I mean, we have a big backyard.
	I mean, if you want to go and smoke in the backyard, that's okay by me.
	Of course, just not anywhere near the baby.
	But yeah, that's just fine.
	How is the new book coming? It's tough.
	It's a tough book. It's a tough book.
	It's a tough book. I get at least one physical ailment.
	I'm generally not a sickly person by any stretch of the imagination, but every time I write a book for some reason, well, not for some reason, but probably for very specific reasons, I get some sort of ailment, and so I had to get a bunch of checkups this time, and it's fine, but yeah, it's a tough thing to do to write these books, for sure.
	It's going to be great to meet people.
	We've always had a great time at these things.
	They're a lot of fun. It's warm and it's friendly.
	It's a real privilege.
	It's casual. It's a real privilege to meet you all.
	I love having you come up.
	Obviously, it's great for you to meet Christina.
	We're obviously looking forward to holding Isabella aloft in some sort of vast, like the closing of The Lion King, but with less of a main.
	Oh, no, Christina could do it.
	But it's just wonderful to meet everyone.
	And it is a real thrill.
	We have this very close, but for the most part, digital relationship.
	And it's wonderful to put faces to the voices and eyes to the names and so on.
	So it is a great thing.
	I don't know that some people who've come have been a little anxious or nervous, but really that's what the heroin is for.
	So that's the last vat that you have to get through, and nobody does.
	But no, it's just wonderful to meet everyone, and we have a great time.
	So obviously it would be great if you can make it.
	The airport is Toronto Pearson International.
	Yes, that's the best one to come to.
	YYZ is the airport code and the name of a pretty good song by Rush.
	Rush.
	Yeah, I mean, if a bunch of people, I'm happy to, if it works out, if a bunch of people are coming in on the same flight, I can certainly do a run.
	It's pretty close to the house. I can do a run to pick people up, so whatever I can do to make that easier, I'd be very happy to.
	What is the limit as to how many people can go?
	I don't I don't think we have a practical limit as to how many people we'd be willing or happy to host.
	Yeah, we can get like probably 150 people in the backyard, so I don't think that'll be an issue.
	What we do for sleeping arrangements is we stack you like cordwood in the basement, so no wriggling, and bring a thick sleeping bag, especially if you're sleeping near Greg, because he's pretty crappy.
	Oh wait, that's me, sorry.
	Sorry, projection.
	I'm back.
	Barbecues on a Saturday, right?
	Yeah, BBQ's on a Saturday.
	Remember, when you're crossing the border, yes, officer, I'm going to an anarchist convention.
	That is definitely the way to go.
	You won't need a passport until June.
	July, is it? Yeah, you just check, of course, there may be some...
	Yeah, you just check from the States, there's something that...
	You're going to need to just check into your status of passports and stuff like that, so just obviously double-check that.
	I think you don't want to be coming in when you don't need a passport and trying to go out when you do.
	That might give you a chance to really experience Christina and I hospitality for three to five.
	Business or pleasure?
	Anarchism, baby.
	It's both.
	Thank you.
	And when you are, of course, crossing, this is particularly true of a land crossing.
	If you do get into any trouble, just say, yes, officer, I have brought my own glove for just such an emergency and then bring out one entirely composed of chinchilla fur.
	that will often get you the kind of special treatment that will really make it easier to bear.
	Remember our second date?
	What would you do?
	Yes, not the real one.
	The one I had later. I don't know if there's a hotel where most people are staying.
	Somebody's asked. The Delta Meta Vale is pretty close to here.
	There's no hotel within walking distance that I know of.
	The Delta Meta Vale is pretty close.
	That's where my gym is. Yeah, there's a Quality Inn.
	There's a Hilton. There's a Sheraton, there's a Delta.
	So yeah, there is a Delta, Delta Metavail.
	They have quite a lot of rooms, and again, I would suggest you all can get pretty substantial discounts if you can get a bunch of people staying at the same place.
	Eight or ten rooms at a minimum, I think.
	I think you can work that out.
	But yeah, you can get like 30, 40% off or more if you can book that kind of stuff.
	Yeah, somebody says I might have a free moment at the Holiday Inn Express, but it's a bit of a hike.
	But, you know, if it's going to be $150 for a room, but only $20 for a cab, then, well...
	Hang on, carry the tube.
	Hang on, take my shoes off.
	Yeah, it seems to be good. But yeah, I guarantee you it'll be an absolutely fun and great time.
	And something that you will remember.
	I have very, very vivid memories of each of the barbecues.
	Um... Particularly the hallucinations after we licked the frog that Tuttle brought.
	So, Mr.
	Ribbit Peyote, I think he was called.
	And so I have just wonderful memories of all of these.
	And, of course, we hope it will be an annual event.
	So, just wanted to mention that.
	that it'll guarantee to be a lot of fun.
	You can say you can post on the board.
	I would use that Amiando site that we talked about earlier because that's a good way to communicate without people coming in to the board with all these questions.
	So I would post stuff there.
	That's where you can post your links and hotel suggestions and where people are going to be staying, when they're going to be coming, and so on.
	I think you can do all of that because we used that last year as well.
	All hail Hypnotoad.
	That's a good name for a band, too.
	There's a nice picture.
	Thank you for someone who's posting that.
	What is odd is that the cook has got hair and is not currently on fire, so it's not quite accurate to my way of approaching hospitality, but still, it's not bad.
	I've been 16 acceptance so far.
	Yeah. Great.
	We hope to at least double that so that we can do Civil War reenactments in the Red Room.
	Oh yeah, so when we say barbecue...
	Yeah, unfortunately, the last time I tried barbecuing, we still have a dark shadow.
	It's like a little nuclear shadow of a barbecue on the back wall of the house.
	I did some rather exciting things with the gas flow and fire.
	So we don't actually have a barbecue at the moment, but there will be goodies.
	Promise. Plus, you know, the reason that we...
	I mean, we could get another barbecue, but the reason is that nobody wants to...
	I don't think people want to come and watch me barbecue.
	I mean, it's not going to be very thrilling.
	And we don't want to, you know...
	Or Christina, right? And we don't want someone to be allocated to barbecue duty, because that's kind of like a non-social thing.
	But there will be good food, I promise.
	Yeah, if you fly to the U.S., you can...
	Yeah, you can drive in from Buffalo or you can take a bus or a train.
	Sorry? From Erie, Pennsylvania?
	Something like that, yeah. Yeah, you have to get the 360 view of the Red Room.
	And we did a video last year.
	No, it was the year before, was it?
	That we did a video with everyone at the barbecue, so we'll probably do another one as well.
	You know, the FDR Marsh Pit.
	We just haven't done that for a while.
	So I would like to give that a shot.
	Yeah, Detroit's a whole, it's four to five hours.
	Oh, and don't forget, I will be giving this closing speech at the Liberty Forum, where I expect half the participants to be lined up with, I guess, flags of FDR and the other half to be lined up with rotten fruit and tomato.
	So it should be quite an exciting show.
	I think Greg's going to be there. We're going to try and do a videotape of it, which we'll end up hopefully putting up on.
	YouTube or something. And I think I'm going to be on Free Talk Live.
	They've been pushing the speech.
	So they called me and said, would I be on?
	And I guess we've had our occasional differences, but none the worse for wear.
	So I will be doing that hopefully this week.
	Would I have to get a hotel?
	You would have to get a hotel room.
	I think an entire hotel would probably be overkill.
	But for the people who tried last time to just bring Monopoly hotels and sleep on the street, that didn't work very well.
	So don't do that.
	But yeah, you will need to get a hotel, but of course you can always share with someone and so on.
	Yeah, into the wild, very light.
	All right. Well, if there's nothing else, I guess we'll shut this down and people in the future can be enormously bored by our planning of the barbecue.
	I won't cut it out. Just because it'd be useful for some people to listen to.
	If you guys could just post the link, then I will just read it out here at the end in case people are listening to this.
	It's amiendo.com forward slash omzfdrbbq2009.html.
	And I hope to see as many people as can be.
	You know, it can be a lonely life being a philosopher.
	And so I hope that we can have at least one Socratic flesh pile up here in Mississauga at the end of May.
	It should be some great weather.
	It should be in here by the end of May.
	And we will have a lot of fun.
	I absolutely guarantee it.
	So it will be something to remember for sure.
	All right. Well, thanks everybody so much for joining.
	I am quite excited, of course, about all the new technical setups that we've gone on here.
	Hopefully the book will be out. Oh God, I don't know what I'm going to do with it, but it's still going to be another couple of weeks.
	But I have started working on a new podcast series because I know it's been a little dry because of the book and some minor health issues.
	So we'll be back on getting the horrendously voluminous amount of material coming out.
	And I will talk to everyone on Laborde and in other mediums.
	So thank you all for listening so much.

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