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Dec. 23, 2008 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
32:19
1238 Fatherhood Part 1

A possible series, if people are interested...

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Time Text
Good afternoon, everybody. Hope you're doing well.
Happy almost holidays, I suppose.
It is 10 to 3 on December the 23rd, 2008.
Ah, a little rain.
Good thing I spent 45 minutes shoveling the driveway this morning.
Anyway, being a new dad is all about running errands and getting things for mommy and baby, so that's what we're after.
And I thought I would record a few thoughts on fatherhood in my sixth day, I suppose.
And whether people are interested or not, you can let me know.
Maybe it's too specific to me or whatever.
I'll try and make it useful to other people.
I know that a lot of the listeners are younger, even younger than me, and might find it of interest to glimpse ahead, or maybe other people are fathers, and maybe something that I share will be of use.
So, so far, well, it's been great.
It's been absolutely fantastic.
I love my wife even more.
I didn't know it was possible. She's fantastic.
With Isabella. Isabella herself is an absolute gem.
I was just saying to Cristina last night, you have time to chat.
You know, it's interesting because you think that having a baby might make you less in touch as a couple, but I found it to be quite the opposite.
We're even more in touch now. And we're actually having more time to chat, right?
when you're up for half the night, as it's been happening, of course, you have time to chat.
And I think it's important.
I mean, I think it's actually essential to process the emotional experience of having a child, of having a baby, and to really feel how it feels to have this beautiful, helpless, ferocious, dependent, wonderful life on your hands.
It's such a big change that we've had time to chat about it.
We were just chatting, I was just saying last night, I was saying that I'm saying, you know, the amazing thing is that if we had sat down, like I said, if you, Christine, and I had sat down to design the perfect baby, I mean, what about our child would we have not taken, right? Would we have a different set of standards?
I mean, would we have altered anything, right?
The childbirth, yes, obviously, it could have been a little more comfortable, but as I said, as far as Isabella herself goes, is there anything That we would have changed.
I mean, maybe all parents feel this way.
Certainly we are luckier than some.
I mean, I was chatting with some people in the maternity ward whose kids, you know, one guy was saying, you know, my kid was born with low blood sugar, so he's been in an incubator being fed X, Y, and Z for a day, and my wife's going nuts.
So, you know, there's lots of people who have Difficult situations, but we've not had any of that.
In fact, her health has been flawless.
All of her blood tests have been perfectly flawless.
She got nine out of basically nine on the health measurement right after she was born.
She's now had her second doctor's visit.
She lost a little...
Over 7% they're slightly concerned if they lose their body weight after they're born, because babies are born with a huge chunk of energy from the umbilical cord.
And they then lose some of that weight because they're getting colostrum, which is pre-milk, for the first couple of days.
And again, maybe this stuff is useful to people.
When you first start breastfeeding, it's not real milk.
Your real milk only comes in after a couple of days.
It's this colostrum, which is high protein, high antibodies, lots of good stuff for the baby.
So basically, the baby stars for the first...
I mean, if you can imagine losing 7% of your body weight within a day or two, I mean, that would be...
Quite difficult, right? So the baby comes out and kind of starves, and I assume that there's some good Mother Nature reason for this, and then the milk comes in, the baby starts to regain weight.
So she lost a little bit.
I mean, it used to be 10% that they say the babies could lose without concern.
Now at 7, she lost 7.4%, I think, of her weight.
So we left the hospital on Sunday, and Monday we got a A doctor's visit.
Of course, it's socialized medicine.
It's really hard for us to get a doctor, so we have to drive for about 45 minutes to get to a doctor, which is Christina's doctor, who fortunately does babies.
But we simply can't get a doctor.
I mean, that's just the problem with socialized medicine, right?
We are a liability, not a source of income, in many ways, to doctors who are full up with people they know and so on.
And of course, people don't want...
Doctors don't want to take new patients They can't say no, right?
And so they don't want to take some patient who's demanding or complicate the risk, right, with taking new patients.
Doctors want people who are coming in for blood tests and, you know, some meds they can hand out, prescriptions, not complicated, long-term, difficult, challenging, litigious, possibly litigious people.
So it's really hard for us to get a doctor, but, you know, we'll struggle through as far as that goes.
So she lost a little bit more, slightly more than the recommended amount of weight.
And then when we took her to the doctor on Monday, she'd gained back a grand total of 5 grams, so at least the weight loss had stopped, which was great.
And now she's up 2 ounces, so she's going to gain 100 grams a day from now until, I don't know, some point in the future when it stops.
So, as far as health goes, she's been fantastic.
She is, as I stand by what I said on the Sunday show, she's an incredibly good-natured kid.
She's calm, she's peaceful.
There was one night which was tough.
I think it was Tuesday night.
When babies get really upset, or at least when my baby gets really upset, She sort of screeches, like a sort of pterodactyl or something.
It's not a cry, it's like a full-on screech.
And I was aware, this is what my mother used to do when she would get upset, which I guess shows where my mother's development stopped or was stalled pretty early on.
So I was aware that that was occurring, and of course it has nothing to do with Isabella, who is perfect and is simply...
Expressing discomfort and trying to get us the information we need to help her, right?
And I was fine with it.
Just after about three hours of this, trying everything to soothe her and trying everything to get her to become more comfortable, I simply mentioned, I said, oh man, this is becoming stressful.
And Christina wanted to jump in, and I was carrying the baby and rocking her, and Christina wanted to jump in as if I had become dangerous or something, which was not of course the case, and we talked about that.
Simply expressing frustration when you feel frustrated is good.
What happened was, and it was very interesting for me to notice this transition, that when I experienced frustration and expressed the frustration, we started doing different things to try and soothe it.
Every parent has their little bag of tricks.
As a new parent of mine, this is a very extensive little bag of tricks, which we use to soothe other calmer children.
And we had, you know, three things that we tried, or four things, and we tried doing some different things.
So when I expressed the frustration, basically it's a way of your body or your mind saying to you, you need to try...
Frustration is a way of saying you need to try something different, right?
So frustration is a very healthy emotion.
So what happened was Christina got up and started dancing with the baby, doing a full-on dance, and that actually helped to settle her and...
In hindsight, for me it's always helpful to try and understand what Isabella is going through.
That's the challenge. So, obviously she was very hungry.
There's something called meconium when a baby is first born.
It's like they're basically crapping black tar.
And then that changes to something that's much...
Darker, which then gets lighter as Christina's milk comes in.
Lighter, and oddly enough, mustard seeds seem to be in there, which apparently is perfectly healthy.
So, what I was saying was, the way that I can understand it, and I say this not because it's necessary for me to understand it, but it's just helpful for me to understand it.
Is that for Isabella, this is like her first major, her third major shift in diet in, you know, five days or four days.
And, of course, she goes from the umbilical, which is relatively, well, which is effortless, right?
I mean, she sucks her thumb in the womb to get the sucking muscle started because that's pretty essential for breastfeeding.
But she went from Umbilical feeding, which is effortless, to having to really work to get the colostrum, the not-quite breast milk.
That was a lot of work and was unsatisfying for her in terms of food because, of course, she was losing her body weight, which was perfectly healthy.
And so that was difficult for her, right?
I mean, it's hungry.
It's like you're starving and someone gives you a cracker, right?
Like, yes, you're happy, but you're also not, right?
So there was that. And then when Christina's milk came in, then she's basically going from umbilical to colostrum to milk in like five days or so.
And that's tough, right? I mean, that is a very challenging situation, right?
Right? Because, I mean, I don't know if you've ever had to really shift your diet, but it's sometimes not very...
If you had to go to an all-B diet or something, you'd probably really notice it in terms of discomfort.
And starting to learn that basic difference, right?
The difference which is that there's some of Isabella's suffering that we can...
I'll just talk about myself...
that I can do something about.
Right? If she needs to be changed because her diet...
The diaper is dirty, or if she's hungry, or if she's too hot or too cold.
I mean, there's some stuff that I can do.
And then there's some stuff which is just the, you know, rather challenging experience of growing so rapidly.
At that size, gaining 100 grams a day.
I mean, that can't be comfortable.
It's like a whole series of...
It's like having worms and having to eat a Thanksgiving dinner, you know, three times a day.
So, that is...
There's some stuff that I can do something about, and there's a whole bunch of stuff, of course, that I can't do anything about, and that is...
And, of course, I can't feed her, right, because we're going with breastfeeding.
And so, yeah, and you can't mix and match again.
I'm sure you all know this, but you can't...
Maybe later on, but...
And we don't have any particular plans for it, but you simply can't mix and match...
Bottle and breast, right?
Because they get what's called nipple confusion and they don't know which.
I mean, the amazing thing, babies are just, I mean, they're absolutely fascinating.
I mean, I love her to death and she's a fabulous science experiment too.
Because, I mean, they come into the world with certain aspects of their personality and I believe that's, I've always believed that to be the case.
They know how to latch on and suckle on a breast, which they've been practicing in the womb for many moons.
And they know the sound of mommy and daddy's voice, assuming that, you know, if you've spoken to your kid while she's in utero or he's in utero, they know the sound and they'll turn towards...
They won't turn towards other people's voices, but they'll turn towards the caregiver's voice, which is fantastic.
And, of course, they have...
It's hard to say whether they're emotions.
Actually, Christina and I were just talking about this while driving back from the doctor's today.
It's hard to know, and I don't know as much about the science, but it's hard to know whether she's actually experiencing emotions or whether she's merely or, I guess, essentially experiencing sensations.
I think that my feeling or my thought about it is sort of...
I obsessively watch her, right?
Because she's just absolutely fascinating and beyond beautiful.
But... I think she experiences discomfort as a very strong, obviously as a very strong emotion, and that's exactly how she should.
And the doctor says, you know, if you have a baby who doesn't cry, you have a problem, right?
I mean, they need to, that is essential, right?
It means that they're lethargic, that they might have an infection, that they might be undernourished, that, you know, they might have, something could be wrong, right?
So the fact that she's A vocal is exactly what we want, exactly what we need.
So, obviously, when she's hungry or she's cold or whatever, and cold sounds callous, you know, like, oh, let the baby be cold, but we gave her her first bath last night, and because her umbilical is still sort of attached to her body, it was not an immersion bath, right, but it was a sponge bath, so you just sort of uncover a little bit of her body, like a leg or whatever, and you Wash that and rinse it and so on.
She didn't like that too much.
It's like trying to wash a cat that's actually possessed by Satan.
That's not comfortable for her, particularly.
It's more comfortable for her when we can give her an immersion bath because then she doesn't feel cold.
Oh, another trick. Again, I'm just going to hand these things out.
You can tell me if any of this stuff is useful or not.
When she gets cold, she needs to let us know if we are in the moment and we don't know where we can change her.
She's got these fierce sensations.
I know for sure when she's feeling content and comfortable and happy.
If she can't smile yet, that'll be a month or two.
Or if she does look like she's smiling, it's just gas.
But she has these sensations, or I guess maybe it's a sensation of sensations, when she's calm and she's alert, she's maintaining eye contact, she's looking around.
I swear to God, it looks like babies can see dead people, because they could stare at a patch of wall for like 10 minutes.
Absolutely fascinated, and I really think that they are commuting.
With those beyond the grave. But that's still a theory I'm working on.
I'm not sure how that fits into the rest of FDR philosophy, but I think, or I suspect, the answer is not at all.
In fact, he completely rejects it.
It's just the only thing I can explain about how a patch of wall is much more fascinating than Daddy's hyper-animated cooing face.
But we'll try not to take it personally.
So here are a few Baby tips.
Again, I'm six days in, so this is just a couple of the scraps that I've picked up or told to me or we've figured out.
One of the problems that new parents have, or one of the problems that we have as new parents, and all new parents have it, is that your baby won't wake up To feed.
She needs so much food because she's trying to regain this lost body weight.
Isabella needs so much food that we cannot rely on her to wake us up when she's hungry.
Because normally as kids get older, that's what you do.
You wait until they wake up and you don't wake them up to feed.
But the problem is that she might not wake up because she's so tired from being born, I guess.
And so she might not wake up.
And the problem is if we let it go too long, she can become lethargic, right?
Because her blood sugar levels and so on are not exact.
She has no excess fat and she's very lean, right?
That's going to come, right? But I mean, you can't see her ribs, but you can certainly feel them, right?
And so the problem is if we don't Feed her.
If we don't wake her up to feed her every three hours, then she might become lethargic and be unable to feed, and then she's got to be fed intravenously.
So, obviously, we have to wake her up every couple of hours, and that is a bit of a challenge.
And the challenge is, in particular, that she's sleepy, right?
So, we have to wake her up every three hours, and she's sleepy, and so we try to...
Christina tries to give her the breast, and...
Isabella would be so sleepy that she would suckle a little bit and then would fall asleep.
Because, remember, it's a lot of work for a baby to suckle, right?
I mean, it's real work.
I mean, the hunter-gatherer of the infant world is getting the milk out, particularly early on when it's this colostrum, right?
It's not quite the milk yet.
So, that's the problem.
And there are some things that you can do to help this process along, right?
To keep her awake so she feeds, because she has to feed, right?
She has to feed. And if I tickle her feet, that's annoying to her.
So that will actually keep her awake and awake enough to feed.
The other thing is to keep her...
I mean, if you keep her double swaddled with real blankets and all that, then she's warm and comfortable and she's asleep and yet she has to eat.
So to make her slightly less comfortable by Stripping her down.
And, of course, babies, it's really important to have skin-to-skin with babies, right?
Skin-to-skin contacts. You don't want to be touching them through blankets and stuff, right?
So I'll lay her on my chest, with her belly on my chest, and so on.
But, so if she's slightly uncomfortable because she's not quite as warm, not cold, but not quite as warm, if she's slightly uncomfortable because daddy is annoyingly tickling her feet, all of this has really helped her to continue to feed, even though she's exhausted and wants to do nothing other than Then sleep, right? So that's important.
Obviously, wake the baby gently as gently as possible, but keeping her awake to feed was a real challenge, and those are some of the tricks and tips that you might want to remember if and when you have kids, or if you have kids now.
If you have kids now, you should be lecturing me, but that's another thing that I noticed.
Another thing that I noticed is that This movement, like rocking her, and I find in particular walking around with her.
When I was in my 20s, I actually ended up seeing a doctor for this, although the doctor was completely useless, and it was a friend of mine who gave me the solution, which was to drink more water.
But I switched to a higher fiber diet for a variety of reasons in my 20s, and I had gas pains, right?
I didn't feel them when I was walking around, but I guess I was too much roughage, too many beans, and so I had gas pains.
Look, these are all things I know that you're all dying to know.
I wouldn't feel them while I was walking around, but I would feel them when I was lying in bed, like going off to sleep or whatever.
It would be like a sharp kind of pain in my gut from the gas, and the solution was to drink more water, and that helped, and that's sort of been a habit I've kept.
So that's the way that I understand.
If Isabelle is just lying there, then if she has gas or she has those kinds of discomforts in her digestive system, which of course, right before she has a crap or whatever, that's uncomfortable for her, as it is for all of us.
I think we can all empathize with that.
So if she's just lying there and she's got any kind of intestinal distress or digestive discomfort, then...
Just having her lie there only increases her discomfort, right?
So, what I have found to be more useful when she's going through that kind of discomfort, and of course you go through the checklist as a parent, right?
Is she warm enough? Is she fed?
Is she changed? Is she...
Whatever it is you've got in your bag of tricks to help soothe her.
If none of that's working, then...
And of course, in particular, if she's recently fed, then I would assume...
I assume that it's just a...
It's digestive discomfort.
And there's no particular cure for that.
I mean, you lean her forward to support her head and burp her and all that kind of good stuff.
But there's no magic cure for that.
The burping can work, and the burping...
There's no guarantee that it's going to work, because it might be too far down in her gut to...
To work, as far as burping works, it's like esophagus, lower, a little lower, she can burp it up.
But it doesn't work when it's down in her gut, right?
So that might work, but the burping is shifting her position, right?
If she's just lying on her back and she's upset because of digestive problems, shifting her position helps a lot.
In the same way that when I was walking around in my 20s, I didn't feel gas discomfort.
But when I lay still, as I say, going to sleep, I did.
So that is another useful thing.
So change her position, sit her up, burp her a little, or pat her a stroke her back.
That can help.
And interestingly enough, when I said earlier that Christina was dancing with Isabella, which was just a beautiful thing to see.
She's just a fantastic mom.
But I'm totally going to lose out in who likes who more.
But that's what helped with her, right?
It helped because she was experiencing that kind of digestive discomfort, and so dancing around, what it does is it shifts, you know, we're not doing break dancing, but it shifts the intestines, it shifts the bowels, and so if she's got discomfort, like food is, I guess not really food, but if there's gas or whatever, then all of that can be very helpful.
So that's another tip, right, is that if she's experiencing discomfort and you've gone through your checklist of the things you can do something about, and it is digestive, which it is the most times, at least so far, then, you know, you can do, you just keep her shifting, keep her moving, and that will definitely help ease her discomfort.
Alright, so, other things that I could pass along as tips to pre-parents or parents-to-be, and again, these mean nothing, right?
It's just things that I've experienced that may be of value to other people.
Yeah, skin-to-skin contact is very, very important for babies.
They thrive based on that.
So, you know, if you're a dad, that's a little tougher.
But, you know, take off, like open up her top and put her on your chest and so on.
That's very important.
Now, it does seem a bit weird.
Of course, you have to put babies on their front.
For a couple of minutes a day so they can start to develop their neck muscles so they can lift up their head in time.
That seems like a weird thing to do when they have an umbilical cord jutting out a bit, but actually it's fine.
You can get the diapers where it goes around the umbilical cord and, you know, just keep her in her onesie or whatever.
The way I do it is I put her on my chest when she's feeling calm, not when she's agitated, right?
Because it will agitate her a little bit to...
It will agitate her a little bit too because, you know, she's trying to work her body, right?
And so when she's on her front and she doesn't know what to do to lift her head, it's jerky and all that.
So do it when she's calm and I think that helps a lot.
I find for myself the way that I get...
I'm not aiming for patience.
I'm aiming for, you know, sheer love, adoration and worship of the child.
So I'm not aiming to be patient with...
Isabella, because that indicates that there's something to be patient about, and there's not, right?
So the way that I'm trying to work it for my own mind, and it's really helping to make sure that my heart stays open, is two things.
One is to empathize, right?
To try and put myself in her position, and we've all been there, but we don't remember it, right?
And the second is to be as careful and precise In my use of language, and I'm being an annoying language Nazi with Christina as well.
I mean, she appreciates it, but it's hard to remember this sometimes.
So, the first thing is to recognize that she doesn't know how to work her body yet, right?
I mean, she's not had to, right?
Because it's been wrapped up in Christina's belly for so long, right?
So that's the first thing to remember is that she wants to do stuff, right?
She's curious. She wants to reach out.
She wants to touch things. She wants to, you know, she sees something shiny, like a light, as I'm sort of carrying her, and she's looking up.
She sees a light or something, and she wants to touch it, right?
Because she's curious, right? And she doesn't know how to.
She can't perceive depth, really.
She can only see about 12 inches.
So there's no point calling her from across the room or putting your face right up against hers, right?
Other than to kiss her, because she can't Process that.
It's 12 to 18, 12 to 16 maybe inches away from her face.
That she can process, but not much else.
So to try and put myself as much as possible in her position is to me really, really important.
So an example of that is...
To imagine, you know, when she gets frantic sometimes or she wants to touch something or she wants to, you know, but all she can do is thrash, right?
To thrash around, to flail about because she doesn't have the coordination, obviously the motor coordination yet, to do what she wants, right?
So if she wants to touch my nose, all she can do is randomly bat at things.
And that's important to remember.
That's a frustrating experience, right?
And it's good that it's frustrating because that means that she tries to overcome that frustration by developing her Her motor coordination, right?
So I sort of think, well, okay, well, if I was suddenly thrown into a plane at 10,000 feet and had to try and figure out how to land it, I would feel both stressed and, obviously, I'd be able to see a fair amount of excitement, to say the least, or frustrated, and so on.
And so all of that is important for me to remember, right?
That she's got this plane called a body that she doesn't know how to fly, but it's essential for her to learn, right?
So... When I see her getting tense or whatever, she's a little frustrated because she can't do what she wants.
I remember, you know, like if I was in a plane at 10,000 feet and suddenly had to figure out how to land it, that would be stressful for me and so on.
So I try and remember it that way and that helps.
And there's lots of little things. I don't know if people are curious, I can come up and tell you more about them, but I'll sort of wait and see if people are interested or not in this stuff at all.
That's one aspect.
The other thing that...
I'm really kind of a Nazi about is the language that we use to talk about her experience, right?
To talk about Isabella's experience, right?
So one thing you'll always hear with babies is people say, oh, she's fussy, you know, she's fussing.
And I think that's wildly disrespectful.
I mean, the sensations that Isabella is going through are extremely intense.
And for her, being cold feels like you and I being thrown in a snowbank, right?
And when she's experiencing pain, it's extraordinary pain, and because she doesn't have any sense of time, it's like it's never going to end, right?
So it would sort of be like me saying to Christina during the agonies of childbirth, you're being fussy, you're fussing.
It's like, no, no, no, no, that's serious pain, right?
That's serious discomfort, that's serious stuff, right?
So this fussy thing, I've always really disliked.
It, to me, is not respectful to the baby's experience.
Now, of course, the baby doesn't know what the hell you're saying, but I think it has an effect on how we perceive or interact with the baby.
So at least half a dozen times or a dozen times a day, I'll sort of say to Christina, if Christina says Isabella's being fussy, say, no, no, no, she's uncomfortable, she's upset, she's frustrated, whatever it is.
I mean, frustrated is a little tough to tell.
You can tell a little bit, but not that easily.
I'm always trying to remember and remind Christina to use language that is appropriate to the situation and does not diminish the genuine and very powerful and very primal experiences that Isabella is experiencing.
We're not going to use words like fussy, but she's uncomfortable, she's frustrated, she's upset, and for good reason.
Because fussy also indicates that she's upset for no reason.
And that's not true.
Babies don't just sit there and become upset for no reason.
We may not know the reason, we may never know the reason, but there is a reason.
It's not random, it's not, you know, she's not being difficult, right?
She's genuinely trying to communicate to us.
And the other thing that I try to remember is, you know, that sort of basic idea, like, well, how would I feel if I was suddenly dropped into China and could not move my arms and legs properly, right? Is that a drug or something?
And I was dropped in China and...
I was starving and so on, right?
And I couldn't communicate that to the Chinese, right?
Because I don't speak Chinese, because there would be an absolute urgency.
Like, I need to eat or I'm going to die.
Or I was diabetic and I need to eat.
And I could not communicate to the people what I needed or what I experienced.
That would be very frustrating for me, right?
And so that's another way that I try to process, and I think successfully, process what Isabella is doing.
Is going through in this context, right?
It's really tough for her to go through this and to experience this not being able to communicate her needs.
Of course, it can be mildly frustrating for us at times, although, again, that's only really happened once for me in the last six days, and I think that's pretty good.
And it lasted for about five minutes, so for the most part, I mean, it's been easy as far as that.
I mean, when we're changing her, she doesn't like it.
That's completely ballistic, but that all makes good sense because she's telling us, "Look, this is uncomfortable for me, so if we can snap it up, Whitey, that would be fantastic." So, trying to remember what it's like from where she's coming from is really, really helpful for me to just remind myself where she is, how strong the sensations are.
And she has no sense of time, right?
So if you're sitting there in the dentist and it's painful, you can say, okay, well, it's only going to be 20 minutes, right?
But she has no real sense of time, so when she feels discomfort, it's like forever, right?
It's never going to stop. It's permanent.
And so, of course, she's going to, you know, really, in a sense, kind of panic.
And who wouldn't, right, in those kinds of situations?
And for her, discomfort is life or death, right?
I mean, we have to wake her to feed every three hours, because if she doesn't feed every three hours, her health is compromised, right?
I mean, and not insignificantly compromised, but can be seriously compromised, so...
It is, you know, everything she's experiencing is to her body a life or death situation and she can't communicate about life or death situations.
And so that's, you know, when I see her urgency and she has this, you know, ferocious urgency when she needs something, that's why, right?
Because she's going to die.
At least that's what her body says if she doesn't get what she needs.
So, I think that's another way that I process what she's going through, and that's been really helpful for me to experience even more, well, a huge amount of empathy and sympathy, right?
Like, when I'm sort of changing her.
Oh, here's another little tip, just as I end up here.
When I'm changing her, here's a little tip, or when Christine is changing her.
If one person, because what happens is her feet get cold, right, when she's being changed, especially if you lift them in the air, right, to put the diaper on.
Have one person cup hands around the feet.
It settles her down almost immediately because she feels warmer when her feet are warmer.
It all comes down to the feet when it comes to body temperature.
And since she doesn't have much ability at all to regulate her temperature, both internally or through any kind of shifting of her locale, that can be really helpful.
So anyway, I'm back.
We can stop talking about the baby and actually interact with the baby, which is fantastic too.
How's she doing? Still feeding.
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