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Nov. 17, 2008 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
09:20
1212 Stef on BBC Radio 2008-11-21

Hijack!

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Now, an 18-year-old not talking to his family anymore.
I've had my kids say that to me on occasions.
They're still talking. So nothing unusual about that.
But on yesterday's programme, we heard from a mum who said that her 18-year-old son had decided never to speak to his family again and leave home, all due to a particular website.
His name is Tom. Mum's name is Barbara.
And she's blaming it on that, isn't she?
The website convinces people, apparently, that they should cut off all family ties.
Now, this is her message to the man who runs it.
I just wish he'd stop obsessing over parents being evil and corrupt and stop twisting people's minds and stop telling them that the way to personal freedom is to rid yourself of these people.
Well, the man who apparently says that is Stefan Molyneux.
Good morning to you, Stefan. Hello?
Oh, good morning, Stefan.
Good morning. Right, you can hear me.
Right, sorry, I think we had a technical fault there, which meant that you weren't able to hear Barbara's message, which was that she wished you would stop, in a sense, meddling in family affairs and suggesting that parents are the evil ones.
Well, I can certainly understand why she would have that perspective, and I certainly do sympathize with the upset that her son's conversation with me has caused her.
But I think that when someone asks for help, I think that if you do have the capacity to offer some useful information or some insights, to me it's like being, you know, you're walking down the sidewalk and someone falls down, you try and help them up.
So if she feels that it's meddling for me to listen sympathetically and to talk No, she feels it's meddling on your part to suggest to any youngsters that they should cut off all family ties.
And her son, she tells me, got that message from your website that that's what he should do.
Well, this is a matter of public record.
The conversation that I had with the fellow is available on the website.
I said that he was, you know, obviously this is voluntary.
All relationships are voluntary when you become an adult.
You can get divorced. Are you telling me that you would never suggest to somebody like Tom that he should turn his back on his family?
You would never suggest that he should do that?
In the conversation I had with Tom, I simply reminded him that the relationship is optional.
I said, you can stay, you can go, but it is a choice that you should make.
So at no stage would you have suggested that he should go?
You just told him he had choices?
I'm just asking you whether or not you ever suggested to Tom that he should go and turn his back on his family and cease all communication with them.
Did you suggest that at all?
No. No.
Why do you think Tom's mother believes that's the case?
Let me be even more clear that the book that he read of mine called Real Time Relationships, I suggest that if you're having problems with your family, and this is common advice, to sit down and tell them how you think and what you feel and what your experience of the family is and talk openly with them.
So, no, and that's the book that he referenced in our conversation.
Barbara tells me that she found Tom was becoming more insular and spending time in his room and she could hear your voice coming over the internet.
She wasn't aware of what those conversations were.
And then she gets a note from him saying he's gone and he's not coming back.
Well, that's not what she said in The Guardian, though, right?
I mean, what she said in The Guardian was that she tried for quite some time to negotiate back and forth.
He wasn't just beamed up by some, you know, alien thing on the Internet.
There were family issues, which I don't have to go into here, but they're all, you know, she's talked about the violence that he experienced at the hands of his father.
And she says in the Guardian that she went and negotiated with him and tried to work out the relationship with him and it didn't work.
Unfortunately due to a technical fault at the beginning of this you weren't able to hear what our other listeners were able to hear and that was her plea.
Now just have a listen to this if you would because I told her I was talking to you on today's program and asked her what she would like to put to you.
Have a listen if you would please. I just wish he'd stop obsessing over parents being evil and corrupt, and stop twisting people's minds, and stop telling them that the way to personal freedom is to rid yourself of these people.
Stefan? Yes?
I heard what she said, that she said that I am somehow telling people that they should rid themselves of their families to be free.
Did I hear that right?
Yes. Well, that's nonsense.
I'm having a baby in four weeks.
Well, not me, but my wife.
So the idea that I think that personal individuation, that happiness, that independence is to be gained through a spurning family, no, of course that's nonsense.
But I'm sure that it's easier for her to get mad at me than to talk about the real pain that her son was talking about in the conversation that he had with me.
Would you email Tom and tell him what you've just told me now?
You're having a child yourself.
You would never ask a child to turn their back on their family.
Would you email Tom and tell him that?
It would matter enormously to his family, possibly to Tom if you are a great influence in his life, and it would matter enormously for him to have the support of his family rather than to cut himself off from his family.
So is the thesis that the only problem in this family is a philosopher from Canada?
I'm saying that according to Barbara, the philosopher from Canada, namely yourself, that you have an enormous influence on this young man, and that as a result of that influence, she is telling me that he has turned his back on his family.
Now, if there is some confusion, would you email Tom and tell him that that is one thing you would never suggest to him?
No, what I will do is I will say to you, and I'm sure if Tom hears this or to his listeners, what I will say...
Tom, I gather, is in Sheffield, so he's well away from the area of this program, unfortunately.
Well, I'm sure that he will hear about it.
Unfortunately, this has become a bit of a thing.
But what I will say is that when Tom was talking to me, and very emotionally and very passionately and tearfully, Talking to me about the physical terror that he lived in in his household, that his father would smash up a room, would smash windows, physically terrorized him for years.
If this family structure thinks that a short conversation that I had with him, where I showed strong sympathy for the abuse that he had suffered, if the family thinks That this is my fault?
That the family is in crisis?
They need to think again.
If that were not the case, if his father had not done those things, and I have no idea, and I am not suggesting that what you're saying is the case, I do not know that to be the case.
If that is not... Sorry, Barbara has said that it is the case.
Yeah, but I'm just saying...
Not a case. She says that the father had violent mood swings.
Right. Is there any value in Tom maintaining a relationship with his mother?
I can't make that decision.
No, no, I'm asking you, do you believe that there would be any value in Tom maintaining a relationship with his mother?
I can't make that determination.
I mean, how could I? It's not my family.
I can say that it is very bad to physically terrorize a child.
I would agree with you, absolutely.
Absolutely. No question about that at all.
Obviously, I mean, picture this, right?
If I were running a show and some woman called up and said, my husband has been physically terrorizing me for years, and I said, you're free to leave that relationship or stay, it's up to you, but I think it's absolutely terrible what he's done to you, that would not be a controversial statement.
Would you agree? I would agree.
Stefan Molyneux, thank you very much for joining me on the program this morning.
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