All Episodes
Previous Next
Feb. 2, 2008 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
24:21
969 Stef on We The People Radio...

A last-minute request to join a live radio show...

| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
I believe we have Stefan on.
You do indeed. Welcome back to the show, Stefan.
Thank you so much, Mark. How are you doing?
I noticed that you were on.
I forget. Let me call Stefan and have a join in the show.
I appreciate you coming on in such really short notice.
Yeah, I just wanted to let you know that although I am a 41-year-old married man, you just happened to catch me one of the few Saturday nights that I wasn't actually out at a rave.
So, good luck.
It was a good fortune, really.
Well, maybe that's a coincidence because it's a few days before Super Tuesday, and that's one of the things we were talking about before you came up.
And I was speaking with Russ.
Gosh, I forget where he's from.
Alabama, maybe. His name was Russ.
I got that much down. And it's the idea that we should get behind and vote for Ron Paul because we've got to get somebody in.
And he is, you know, he's not a real government, you know, hardcore government guy.
Yeah, he's not. I just...
The idea that...
I know you're in Canada, so I value your opinion more because it will really upset Republicans when you talk about the American system.
Do you really think that something like the United States government would be set up in a way that one man could turn it around and dismantle, let's say, half of it?
Oh, good heavens, no.
No, it's not at all possible.
And this is with all due respect to the good-natured and optimistic and positive aspects of the Ron Paul revolution.
I mean, the desire to get the troops out of Iraq, the desire to reduce the size and power of the federal government, the desire to reduce or eliminate the income tax, the idea to return to a gold standard.
All of those things come from a very good place, and I hugely respect the optimism and positivity that is in that aspect of things, but it is a complete and total pipe dream to imagine that this can occur from one man being voted into office.
office, I think it's a waste of resources that could be much better deployed elsewhere.
Thank you.
My name is Morris Stevens, and I've got to point out, I have a youngest daughter who is 8 years old and loves the Who.
She was out there earlier watching my copy of The Who live at the Isle of Wight.
Not as good, of course, as live at Leeds, but still a fantastic performance.
And my wife just hates that because I'm poisoning our little girl with such trash music.
Welcome back to the show, Stefan. Thanks.
Have you had to explain to your daughter what a pinball actually is?
It's not one of the songs she likes to listen to.
Ah, right, right, right. She really likes the song and she gets a real big kick out of a boy.
And there's a line in I'm a boy where it goes, and put this wig on little boy.
And she just thinks it's hilarious that the mother is trying to dress the little boy up as a girl because, you know, the whole story of the song is about in the future when you can pick the sex of your children.
And they order four children, and it was supposed to all be girls, and they get one boy.
And, of course, his mother can't stand that and hates that and keeps trying to make him.
Anyway, I want to get back to the – I want to get back.
We have someone from Pennsylvania on.
Just be patient for one more moment.
I wanted to ask you the question.
I don't think they made it clear enough.
Do you believe that the United States government, meaning the people who call themselves the United States government, are really the power there and wield the control?
Do you think they have a system set up where one guy could get in and start dismantling it?
No, no, not at all.
And of course, this is something that I've asked Ron Paul supporters, and I guess by implication Ron Paul, for at least a year, is what is the actual plan?
They just figured they're going to lob some libertarian-minded guy into the bully pulpit and then have the government somehow begin disintegrating like a space shuttle on re-entry.
Just there's no actual plan.
All that's going to happen, the best that he can hope for, is he's going to go around lecturing people about Austrian economics and libertarianism, and then he's going to do his best to try and veto everything, but he's just going to get overridden with the two-thirds in Congress.
Because the congressmen are responsible to hand out the goodies, that's what they're put there for, is to dig into the sugar truck and hand out the sweets to their constituents, and not all of them, but the ones who donated.
So he's their errand boy to pick up the slush fund, Money in Washington, so they're just going to override any presidential veto for spending bills.
So no, there's no possibility that the system has been set up.
There's no backdoor password that says, ooh, well, if we get one libertarian guy into the bully pulpit, he can bring it all down.
Then people are saying, well, he's going to bring the troops back from Iraq.
You do not take on the greatest military in the world, the greatest and largest military the world has ever seen.
By going and just snapping your fingers, no matter what your age and what your education or anything like that, it's just not set up that way.
It is going to be a much, much harder thing to get rid of, and it's going to involve a lot more personal commitment to the principles of freedom than pounding lawn signs in and voting.
Absolutely, I agree. I want to go to the phones we have.
Someone from Pennsylvania. We have Anel from Pennsylvania.
Anel, welcome to the No Say Project.
Yes, I want to make a comment, right?
And you might not necessarily agree with what I'm going to say.
That's fine. But I'm going to say it anyhow.
Anybody who votes, they have two main traits.
One, they suffer from political delusion.
It doesn't matter how sincere they are.
They suffer from political delusion.
And two, implicitly or explicitly, They have a tyrannical mind.
And I know the second one might sound a little bit harsh, right?
But this is my explanation for that.
Are you here? Are you here, Nick?
I think you're preaching to the choir, though.
I don't know why you would have said that.
I can't disagree with either of those sentiments.
But at least other people who are listening, right, can hear that because it's not only the choir listening.
You know, because when you vote, when a person votes, He's not voting for the government to have personal control over his life.
He's voting so that the government can make rules to have control over other people's lives.
You have to be tyrannical.
So it doesn't matter whether you vote for Ron Paul, Democrats, Republican, it just doesn't matter, right?
And I think that, I mean, those people who are getting mad when you talk about Ron Paul, you know, can't fulfill, they are just tyrannical and politically delusion.
That's what I have to say, and thank you for listening to me.
Well, I appreciate the call, Enel.
Please, keep listening and call again.
I do appreciate that call.
Okay. I would say I agree.
I don't, you know, and Stefan and I agree, and I would say most people who listen to the show do agree that we don't fall for the good cop, bad cop routine.
I mean, I don't mean if, I hope that doesn't offend anybody, but that's just the way things are.
I mean, you agree, right, Steph? I mean, it's a good cop, bad cop.
Oh, absolutely. I said in a podcast once, democracy is a suggestion box for slaves.
It never seems to quite get opened.
The padlock is always on.
But still, we keep stuffing suggestions in like, please beat me less.
Please give me an hour off on Sunday.
Please, please, please, Mr.
Government, can I have a little bit of freedom?
And of course, the only freedom we ever get is when, say, if you look at the Chinese government liberating some of their economy, they're not doing that because they believe in freedom.
They're doing that because they looked at the economic crater hole, Of Soviet Russia in the sort of late 80s, early 90s, and said, well, that was not very good livestock management, so we're going to give our tax cows a little bit more headroom, otherwise they're going to lose all their motivation.
So it's not freedom that we get with these kinds of liberalizations, it's just better livestock management, in a sense, from the government.
So begging your slave masters for freedom is never going to make you free.
Well, and we have – people have to understand that a parasite has a vested interest in not killing its host.
Sure. Typically that's – so when I look at it, especially like let's say use the United States government as an example, they would just better parasites.
They realize don't kill the host.
That's really what it boils down to.
I know you didn't hear the earlier call with Russ.
He agrees that it's not supposed to – and I don't think he's the typical Ron Paul supporter that I've heard.
I mean that's just my scope of experience.
It has to be something that continues without Ron Paul.
It's not – It's the push for freedom and liberty has got to continue after Super Tuesday when Ron Paul does not get the nomination.
And I think he's absolutely right.
There's going to be a huge swell of people that are really pissed off that he doesn't get the nomination.
Well, and the other thing too is that you don't necessarily want to have, just because of people's lack of political, philosophical, and economic understanding, you don't want to have a libertarian at the helm when the Titanic finally hits the iceberg, because all people will do for the next hundred years is say, Oh yeah, well, we had a libertarian in power, and what happened?
Well, he cut spending, they had to start addressing the national deficit, or they defaulted, or they went...
You know, there's going to be a...
We have a massive crap storm approaching when it comes to economics, right?
As we all know. So I, for one, would...
I want to stay as far away from power as I could because we don't want that to be associated with libertarianism because people will then say, oh yeah, well we got a libertarian in and what happened?
Well, he cut all this military spending which put tons of people out of work and then, you know, all of these sorts of things will occur.
I think we want to let this system unravel with the idiots who've always been at the helm so we don't get plain blamed for hitting the iceberg they steered us towards.
And that's a very real possibility.
I have another caller here.
We don't have...
It always refreshes at the wrong time, but I don't...
We have a caller. You're welcome to the No Stay Project.
Mark? Hello. Yes.
Hey, Mark. David Hall from Maine Con.
Hey, good to have you on, David.
What do you got for us today? Well, just real quick, I had heard very early preliminary results Well, Ron Paul, supposedly he's in second place at the moment in Maine.
However, everything is still being counted.
It's the caucus weekend this weekend, so I can't say for sure if he's going to stay in second place or what's going on.
But anyway, I just wanted to give you a heads up on that.
I appreciate that. And also, I had a quick comment.
Sure. Yeah, I think one of the things that people need to do To really find out the facts and the truth of any matter is use the Freedom of Information Act and also use the state version of it when it comes to things like finding out about taxes, Social Security, the requirement of a driver license and all that stuff.
Well, I was able to use it in one instance, and that had good results.
And it's the only one.
And I don't know how you're using it.
And that was where, years ago, we had gotten the IRS to admit, in someone's case, that there were no recorded liabilities for, let's say, 91 to 97.
And we were able to use that information to get an indictment dropped.
So, there's probably, you know, I have to investigate that further, what you're talking about.
But, yeah, I haven't used that with, you know, decent success.
Well, appreciate the call, Dave.
All right. Talk to you later.
Bye. My name's Mark Stevens.
It's Stefan Molyneux, freedomainradio.com, and I've always run out of time too fast here, Steph.
We'll be back in just a few moments for the last segment.
I'll be holding my breath.
Online and on demand, this is We the People Radio Network.
All right, welcome back to the No welcome back to the No Stay Project.
I'm your host, Stephen, author of Adventures in Lincoln Land, and joining me for the week, and now it says Tom Owen of FreeDomainRadio.com.
Steph, welcome back to the show.
Alright, thank you so much, Mark. Great to be here.
Great to have you back. You got any Scottish or Gaelic blood in you?
Well, Gaelic, yes.
I was actually born in Ireland.
Many, many moons ago.
So, yes, a little bit of the old sod in the old veins.
Ah, there you go. Well, fantastic.
Great. Good. I'm glad that you're able to join me here, because I was going to do something, and I prefer to have you on, because last week...
Spread the blame.
Spread the blame. I need a human shield, Steph, if you could just...
Well, I think we were unfairly characterized as making personal attacks against Dr.
Ron Paul. When all we've done is talk about the issues and statements, and I don't think I've made any personal attacks.
What I wanted to do, and I hope I get everything right on this, is I just want to play a clip of an actual personal attack so that people can hear the difference, so that when you or I point out, when Dr.
Paul says that it's wrong to spread democracy by force, And that – and then you point out, well, they're spreading democracy here by force just by having government.
Or that when he talks about the non-aggression principle while being a congressman, that that's not a personal attack.
So what I want to do is I want to – and bear with me for just a second.
Hopefully this comes out. What I want to do is I want to play an actual personal attack.
Okay, here we go. Let's see.
Let's see.
Let's see. Okay,
there you go. There you go.
Did you hear that? I sure did.
I remember hearing it a week or so ago.
Okay, a letter came through pretty easy.
Now, saying that we're arrogant like the Pharisees, and saying we're jealous, that's an example of a personal attack.
Saying that Ron Paul has been inconsistent with his statements because he talks about the non-aggression principle, and being a congressman is not a personal attack.
So I hope everybody now understands the difference.
And by saying that he has no chance of getting elected, that is not a personal attack against Dr.
Paul. That is just looking at things realistically, like Russ had said, in the real world.
In the real world, people who talk about dismantling government do not become the head of that government.
It's certainly not a personal attack, and it's unfortunate because it's a typical political ploy to make personal attacks.
So I thought it was ironic is someone's saying to us, stop the personal attacks, and they do it with a personal attack.
But that's almost inevitable psychologically, if you just don't mind me saying so, right?
I mean, people who don't have good arguments, and I think that the anarchists or the anarcho-capitalists are those, those of us who work from first principles upwards, and who don't accept the contradictions in the non-aggression principle that have been around from the founding fathers, through Ayn Rand, even through Harry Brown to some degree, Once we iron those kinks out, we're just working from first principles.
I mean, I'd love to be more mainstream.
It would be great. But as Aristotle said about Plato's forms, the truth even must take precedence over our friendships.
And that, of course, is just...
The way that it works out when you work at it logically.
It's not against other people.
We're not mean. We're not trying to downgrade Ron Paul or spit in the face of libertarianism.
It just is incorrect.
And it's a real shame that it's incorrect because it pushes those who say that further out into the periphery.
But as Aristotle said, the truth is more important.
Than anything, at least it is to me.
And until somebody can prove this position wrong with a better argument, which I'm always happy to hear, sneering personal attacks will be all that comes from people who are just fundamentally in error.
That's all they've got, right? I wrote on the forum recently that when you have someone lobbying personal attacks, you know that you've got them.
It doesn't necessarily mean you're right, but the person that you're having a discussion with has nothing to counter.
I look at someone like Alex Jones, who I've mentioned on the show before and only promoted.
It was always in a good light.
I've listened to Prison Planet and Infowars.com and listened to the show.
I've done that. I've never denigrated or spoken ill of someone like Alex Jones.
I would imagine that there is a huge investment that he has in the Ron Paul situation.
Election and getting Ron Paul elected.
So to hear something that's perceived as negative about Ron Paul, there's going to be a certain emotional response, like I mentioned earlier, that you'd get if you start saying the Queen is a man to someone who lives in England.
Well, and I'm sorry to be Mr.
Plug, but I've just finished this book, Real-Time Relationships, The Logic of Love, which is really just around bringing philosophical honesty to your emotional dealings with people.
And of course, if, you know, Mr.
Jones were to take the approach that I sort of talk about in this book, then he would say, look, what you're saying is really bothering me.
And we could talk about that, but to sort of act it out and say, well, I'm bothered, therefore you're being a jerk, and I'm going to call you, like, or whatever it is.
That's just not a very mature or honest Approach to an interaction.
I would like to have Alex on as a guest, at least for a couple of segments, to discuss this.
But I did want to set the record straight.
Today, to show that we haven't made a personal attack against Dr.
Paul, that's not what we do here.
We don't have to go to a personal attack because, hey, anarchism is right.
It's wrong to shoot people to provide services.
There's no argument with that.
I mean, anybody who argues with you is, I think we call them psychopaths.
So there's no need to resort to a personal attack.
But that's what you're going to expect, yes, when you're right, when someone is not coming from first principles and not being consistent.
There's nothing left there, so there has to be a personal attack.
And it's unfortunate.
But this is politics.
Like I said earlier, it's no different than if you say something about Bush or you say something about the Queen.
I just wanted to be able to say on the air that the Queen was a man.
Is that being lost on you?
Have you got some long-lost bond to the Queen for something?
I thought there would be more of a response from that from you.
Oh, look, it's not even that long-lost.
My dad is really into the family tree stuff, and he's traced us back to William the Conqueror.
We used to be, you know, big landowners in Ireland, which meant that we had all the peasants we could eat.
Ah, the good old days.
So your family...
I have some connection, but nothing that I would particularly advertise.
Oh, so it was your family that was kicking my family off the land.
Into the bog, peasants!
I practice that every morning, just with my wife.
Wow. Well, you know, after this Tuesday, I guess they call it Super Tuesday because there's 22 primaries.
And that's pretty much where the candidate for president is going to be decided.
And if this is correct...
Let me see if this is correct.
Let me get this here.
The delegate count so far is that McCain has 93, Romney has 59, Huckabee has 40, Ron Paul has 4.
Yeah. And they're saying that the...
Yeah, I guess if, you know, David, and David's a good friend, Ron Paul's in second in one of these primaries...
I just don't see it happening.
Do you think? I've been saying for a long time he has no chance whatsoever for a number of different reasons.
This is what gets me, Steph.
I never understand how people were so against the elections and saying how Bush stole the election.
It was all vote fraud. Why they have any confidence at all that Ron Paul can get elected with the same system.
Right. I mean, as Stalin said, it's not who gets the votes, it's who counts the votes that determines power.
And if Ron Paul were to get a plurality of votes, there's just no way that the military-industrial complex, which sells $40 billion of arms over the last decade around the world, is going to say, ooh, some pieces of paper got put into a box.
Well... I guess that's it for us then.
We're going to be the first army in history that's going to bow before the ballot.
It's just not going to happen.
And people don't like to face that because they can't think of an alternative.
They can't say, well, if I'm not doing political action, then I guess my only alternative is to roll over and let the fascist state roll over me.
But that, of course, is not...
Your only other option.
That's the point of what we talk about here.
Your only option is not getting rolled over by the state or pursuing politics.
There is a third way, which I talk about in my podcast.
You've talked about, too. There's another way which is gonna work.
And this one has had 150 years to work.
If you go back to Adam Smith, 300 years to work to try and control the power of the state through politics.
It just doesn't work.
Well, we know what does work is non-violent, non-cooperation.
That does get their attention.
And I would hope that the people who are going to put so much money into it and continue after next week and look at serious ways and effective ways of bringing about political change and bringing about voluntary society.
And that is non-violent, non-cooperation.
Well, Steph, I'm glad you're able to join me again today.
▲
Export Selection